Glasses Free Stereoscopic 3D Monitor Kickstarter
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I sent them a question on kickstarter just after posting here. The patent seems to indicate that they also use a "dynamic slit" (it does not define what this is, but I'd guess it's likely to be an array of liquid crystal columns) and an array of cylindrical lenses. The patent does not cover any form of eye tracking or multiple viewers. This may be in a separate patent, or not patented (other glasses free 3D displays already do this, such as the one from Microsoft Research, so this may not have been the focus of their patent). So I'd say that the technique is plausible. They really should expand the technical detail on their kickstarter page a little - at the moment it suggests that they are only replacing the backlight, but that could never work by itself. With the addition of cylindrical lenses and "dynamic slit", yeah - it's plausible.
I sent them a question on kickstarter just after posting here.

The patent seems to indicate that they also use a "dynamic slit" (it does not define what this is, but I'd guess it's likely to be an array of liquid crystal columns) and an array of cylindrical lenses.

The patent does not cover any form of eye tracking or multiple viewers. This may be in a separate patent, or not patented (other glasses free 3D displays already do this, such as the one from Microsoft Research, so this may not have been the focus of their patent).

So I'd say that the technique is plausible. They really should expand the technical detail on their kickstarter page a little - at the moment it suggests that they are only replacing the backlight, but that could never work by itself. With the addition of cylindrical lenses and "dynamic slit", yeah - it's plausible.

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#16
Posted 11/29/2014 04:15 PM   
I was waiting for this.... http://www.tomsguide.com/us/asus-4k-3d-monitor-specs,news-18912.html Asus 4k Dolby 3D autio stereoscopic monitor. 1080p 3d to each eye. How do you think this DTI monitor will compare? Anyone have any info on how the DTI would compare to Dolby 3D? Also, I doubt they will have 1080p to each eye with DTI. There has to be some kind of layer, which has ALWAYS reduced horizontal resolution in half, like passive displays.
I was waiting for this.... http://www.tomsguide.com/us/asus-4k-3d-monitor-specs,news-18912.html


Asus 4k Dolby 3D autio stereoscopic monitor. 1080p 3d to each eye.

How do you think this DTI monitor will compare? Anyone have any info on how the DTI would compare to Dolby 3D?

Also, I doubt they will have 1080p to each eye with DTI. There has to be some kind of layer, which has ALWAYS reduced horizontal resolution in half, like passive displays.

#17
Posted 11/29/2014 05:02 PM   
Hello: I'm Tom Curtin and I'm representing the Dimension Technologies Inc. Kickstarter campaign. let me start off by saying the only reason that we featured DDD Tri-Def was because they had a cool graphic and we like them and have worked with them for years. We do mention NVIDIA, AMD in the body copy...but who reads body copy, right? This morning's update should clear up any question. We are compatible with NVIDIA and just about everything else upstream. There are a lot of people speculating about how this works. So we just published an FAQ that addresses most of the issues that have been raised. I'm glad there is a group talking about this. Can we continue the conversation on our Kickstarter page?
Hello:
I'm Tom Curtin and I'm representing the Dimension Technologies Inc. Kickstarter campaign.
let me start off by saying the only reason that we featured DDD Tri-Def was because they had a cool graphic and we like them and have worked with them for years. We do mention NVIDIA, AMD in the body copy...but who reads body copy, right?

This morning's update should clear up any question. We are compatible with NVIDIA and just about everything else upstream.

There are a lot of people speculating about how this works. So we just published an FAQ that addresses most of the issues that have been raised.

I'm glad there is a group talking about this. Can we continue the conversation on our Kickstarter page?

#18
Posted 11/29/2014 05:19 PM   
[quote="Conan481"]Also, I doubt they will have 1080p to each eye with DTI. There has to be some kind of layer, which has ALWAYS reduced horizontal resolution in half, like passive displays.[/quote] As far as I can tell it will be 1920x1080 in each eye. It's the "time multiplexed backlight" that allows it - each frame will only be visible to one eye, but that will include every pixel. It's almost like taking your existing active shutter glasses and putting them over the backlight instead of your eyes :-p Of course, this is just what I've got out of reading the (poorly translated from Chinese) patent - you might want to shoot them a question on kickstarter to confirm. (Edit: Wrong patent, see below) I have no idea how it will compare to the Asus monitor in practice - I'd need to see them both in person to make a judgement on that.
Conan481 said:Also, I doubt they will have 1080p to each eye with DTI. There has to be some kind of layer, which has ALWAYS reduced horizontal resolution in half, like passive displays.

As far as I can tell it will be 1920x1080 in each eye. It's the "time multiplexed backlight" that allows it - each frame will only be visible to one eye, but that will include every pixel. It's almost like taking your existing active shutter glasses and putting them over the backlight instead of your eyes :-p

Of course, this is just what I've got out of reading the (poorly translated from Chinese) patent - you might want to shoot them a question on kickstarter to confirm. (Edit: Wrong patent, see below)

I have no idea how it will compare to the Asus monitor in practice - I'd need to see them both in person to make a judgement on that.

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

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#19
Posted 11/29/2014 05:28 PM   
Thanks for the clarification Tom. Looks like full 1080p each eye 3D. It's interesting it works like shutter glasses, and wonder if there would be any eyestrain? I think I may back it.
Thanks for the clarification Tom.

Looks like full 1080p each eye 3D. It's interesting it works like shutter glasses, and wonder if there would be any eyestrain?

I think I may back it.

#20
Posted 11/29/2014 05:30 PM   
@DarkStarSword The Time Multiplexed Backlight is a unit, a lens array. We do actually swap out the OEM backlight and install ours...but it is more than lights. The eye tracking is not a focus for our patents.
@DarkStarSword The Time Multiplexed Backlight is a unit, a lens array. We do actually swap out the OEM backlight and install ours...but it is more than lights.

The eye tracking is not a focus for our patents.

#21
Posted 11/29/2014 05:39 PM   
Can you say what monitor you are using? IPS/TN/VA panel type? Contrast ratio?
Can you say what monitor you are using? IPS/TN/VA panel type? Contrast ratio?

#22
Posted 11/29/2014 05:45 PM   
@DarkStarSword Wondering why you had to read a translation of the patent. It was invented by Jesse Eichenlaub in Rochester, New York.
@DarkStarSword Wondering why you had to read a translation of the patent. It was invented by Jesse Eichenlaub in Rochester, New York.

#23
Posted 11/29/2014 06:00 PM   
@Conan481, We have not made a final selection. There are many high quality displays that meet our specifications; we will test and select the one that provides the best 3D/2D image quality and real-time game performance within the spec parameters with input from our backers of course. Given our specification, what monitor would you suggest?
@Conan481, We have not made a final selection. There are many high quality displays that meet our specifications; we will test and select the one that provides the best 3D/2D image quality and real-time game performance within the spec parameters with input from our backers of course.

Given our specification, what monitor would you suggest?

#24
Posted 11/29/2014 06:21 PM   
@D-Man11, Both products that we brought to market in the 2000s were very well received from a tech-review standpoint. You haven't heard of us but the people at NASA have chosen us for their autostereoscopic display research and development work for the past 25 years-- and they have access to the best technology in the world. We do not use anything on the front of the screen to create our 3D depth of field.
@D-Man11, Both products that we brought to market in the 2000s were very well received from a tech-review standpoint. You haven't heard of us but the people at NASA have chosen us for their autostereoscopic display research and development work for the past 25 years-- and they have access to the best technology in the world.

We do not use anything on the front of the screen to create our 3D depth of field.

#25
Posted 11/29/2014 08:08 PM   
[quote="Glasses-FreeTC"] I'm glad there is a group talking about this. Can we continue the conversation on our Kickstarter page? [/quote] Tom, hi, and thank you for being here. It might be worth your while keeping an eye on both sites, although I would suggest that this site, at least for now, is a rather better format for a real conversation, and for you to disseminate the facts as you know them, whilst equally gauging us, your target audience. People may or may not wish to make a pledge, but at least they'll have all the facts. I fully understand as to why it would be preferable to converse on your own Kickstarter page for obvious reasons. It's probably far from ideal, I know, but your initiative here is most welcome. Hopefully, the changes that you've made to your Kickstarter page will clear up yet more FAQs so that you don't need to come here, although of course I wish you were a regular. There are exceptional people that frequent this board that are too modest to trumpet their own achievements in keeping true 3D stereoscopy alive for the last few years in spite of everything. The plain fact is, is that I would not have bothered buying my last two rigs if wasn't for the game fixes that were created, and are still being made even now. There's a huge library of freely available community fixes that we rely upon, using 3D Vision, via this site:- http://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/ I'm currently using a 1080p monitor which will suffice for now, but a 3D capable Asus ROG Swift is the one to go for at the present time, simply because it exceeds 1080p and has g-sync as a bonus. The only thing that's stopping me is that my game content is skewed to DX9 and I'm driver bound, at least for now. I'm simply stating the realities that exist at the very top end of the current market as I see it. For the average consumer, I'm quite sure that glasses-free 1080p in 3D will be an astounding thing to see, and at long last be accessible enough to be able to convince the hitherto undecided. May I say, speaking here as a humble consumer, it's very refreshing to converse with a potential producer in a setting such as this. Whatever happens in the next few weeks, at least useful knowledge will have been transferred in both directions, and in the meantime, I do thank you for being here and for listening to us.
Glasses-FreeTC said:


I'm glad there is a group talking about this. Can we continue the conversation on our Kickstarter page?



Tom, hi, and thank you for being here. It might be worth your while keeping an eye on both sites, although I would suggest that this site, at least for now, is a rather better format for a real conversation, and for you to disseminate the facts as you know them, whilst equally gauging us, your target audience. People may or may not wish to make a pledge, but at least they'll have all the facts. I fully understand as to why it would be preferable to converse on your own Kickstarter page for obvious reasons. It's probably far from ideal, I know, but your initiative here is most welcome. Hopefully, the changes that you've made to your Kickstarter page will clear up yet more FAQs so that you don't need to come here, although of course I wish you were a regular.

There are exceptional people that frequent this board that are too modest to trumpet their own achievements in keeping true 3D stereoscopy alive for the last few years in spite of everything. The plain fact is, is that I would not have bothered buying my last two rigs if wasn't for the game fixes that were created, and are still being made even now. There's a huge library of freely available community fixes that we rely upon, using 3D Vision, via this site:-

http://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/

I'm currently using a 1080p monitor which will suffice for now, but a 3D capable Asus ROG Swift is the one to go for at the present time, simply because it exceeds 1080p and has g-sync as a bonus. The only thing that's stopping me is that my game content is skewed to DX9 and I'm driver bound, at least for now. I'm simply stating the realities that exist at the very top end of the current market as I see it. For the average consumer, I'm quite sure that glasses-free 1080p in 3D will be an astounding thing to see, and at long last be accessible enough to be able to convince the hitherto undecided.

May I say, speaking here as a humble consumer, it's very refreshing to converse with a potential producer in a setting such as this. Whatever happens in the next few weeks, at least useful knowledge will have been transferred in both directions, and in the meantime, I do thank you for being here and for listening to us.

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#26
Posted 11/29/2014 08:11 PM   
I would prefer a high speed IPS panel. IPS panels have the best color reproduction. I think most gaming monitors use TN panels because they have very fast response time, but usually only 6 bit panels with very weak colours. Would have to look into some IPS panels and see how they stack up overall for gaming vs. a TN panel. Also, PLEASE try to get a glossy screen. I can't stand the matte finish on almost all monitors, an really hate the grainy texture of the screen. The benefits of a glossy screen are better perceived contrast and much better colours. Basically almost all TV manufacturers now use glossy screens for their TVs because they look SO much better then matte screens. Yes you will get reflections, but I think most people would prefer a glossy screen with reflections vs. a matte screen with no reflections but a dull looking picture. My 10 year old glossy LCD screen looks miles better then my high end Benq matte screen monitor.
I would prefer a high speed IPS panel. IPS panels have the best color reproduction.

I think most gaming monitors use TN panels because they have very fast response time, but usually only 6 bit panels with very weak colours. Would have to look into some IPS panels and see how they stack up overall for gaming vs. a TN panel.

Also, PLEASE try to get a glossy screen. I can't stand the matte finish on almost all monitors, an really hate the grainy texture of the screen.

The benefits of a glossy screen are better perceived contrast and much better colours. Basically almost all TV manufacturers now use glossy screens for their TVs because they look SO much better then matte screens. Yes you will get reflections, but I think most people would prefer a glossy screen with reflections vs. a matte screen with no reflections but a dull looking picture.

My 10 year old glossy LCD screen looks miles better then my high end Benq matte screen monitor.

#27
Posted 11/29/2014 10:14 PM   
If factoring in pixel persistence and motion blur, ISP panels are usually a poor choice, although they are getting better. http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/zeromotionblur/
If factoring in pixel persistence and motion blur, ISP panels are usually a poor choice, although they are getting better.


http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/zeromotionblur/

#28
Posted 11/29/2014 10:46 PM   
No sweetspots or head movement restrictions No crosstalk Two viewers That's what I'm interested in. One of the major things in 3D that never seem to happen with theatre 3D movies, is the uncomfortable doubling of 3d objects when they are front and center and are partially cut off by the screen boundaries which. 3DVision and 3DS does this. So will this problem be fixed? Also, when looking at the background and the foreground becomes doubled or vice versa. Will that be fixed while still maintaining good 3D? I understand that that happens irl. But that is very uncomfortable and most of the time being simulated, it happens in the peripheral vision portion most of the time irl. I can understand this staying for fps's. But it's too intolerable for all the games that are 3rd person. Tridef fixes this with the auto focusing (percent in front) but you always see it before it fixes itself. Will this completely eliminate that?
No sweetspots or head movement restrictions
No crosstalk
Two viewers

That's what I'm interested in. One of the major things in 3D that never seem to happen with theatre 3D movies, is the uncomfortable doubling of 3d objects when they are front and center and are partially cut off by the screen boundaries which. 3DVision and 3DS does this. So will this problem be fixed? Also, when looking at the background and the foreground becomes doubled or vice versa. Will that be fixed while still maintaining good 3D?

I understand that that happens irl. But that is very uncomfortable and most of the time being simulated, it happens in the peripheral vision portion most of the time irl. I can understand this staying for fps's. But it's too intolerable for all the games that are 3rd person. Tridef fixes this with the auto focusing (percent in front) but you always see it before it fixes itself. Will this completely eliminate that?

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#29
Posted 11/29/2014 11:06 PM   
Thanks Pirateguybrush for introducing me to this incredibly valuable forum. We are 3D advocates and evangelists like you. 25 years waiting for the market forces to align -- content, computing power, display performance and price. We think that time is now. We have been traveling to events like SIGGRAPH in Vancouver and Immersed in Toronto to show our displays and get people excited about glasses-free 3D. We show to very tough crowds (like this one) and get really great reviews (even on our older models). @ToThePoint, I will be actively monitoring this forum and appreciate all of the knowledge being exchanged here. I do hope you will support us in some fashion -- even if it's just spreading the word. We are engaging upstream capture, content development, and computing and display partners to revive interest and investment in 3D.
Thanks Pirateguybrush for introducing me to this incredibly valuable forum. We are 3D advocates and evangelists like you. 25 years waiting for the market forces to align -- content, computing power, display performance and price. We think that time is now. We have been traveling to events like SIGGRAPH in Vancouver and Immersed in Toronto to show our displays and get people excited about glasses-free 3D.

We show to very tough crowds (like this one) and get really great reviews (even on our older models).
@ToThePoint, I will be actively monitoring this forum and appreciate all of the knowledge being exchanged here.

I do hope you will support us in some fashion -- even if it's just spreading the word. We are engaging upstream capture, content development, and computing and display partners to revive interest and investment in 3D.

#30
Posted 11/29/2014 11:12 PM   
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