1080p 24 fps Is this good enough for games?
  4 / 4    
[quote name='Edo1946' date='17 May 2011 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1305655648' post='1238437']
nope , not that I recognize, I only have a 3d glasses emitter output for the ir glasses. here is the link for the owners manual if that helps http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/738-838_BIB_v3.pdf
[/quote]
Followed the link and the manual showed a '3D glasses out' port on the TV's back panel. This presumeably would connect to the nvidia emitter. Have you tried connecting this output port to the nvidia emitter then installing the nvidia drivers?
Could you provide me with the year/model num of your DLP?
Thanks
[quote name='Edo1946' date='17 May 2011 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1305655648' post='1238437']

nope , not that I recognize, I only have a 3d glasses emitter output for the ir glasses. here is the link for the owners manual if that helps http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/738-838_BIB_v3.pdf



Followed the link and the manual showed a '3D glasses out' port on the TV's back panel. This presumeably would connect to the nvidia emitter. Have you tried connecting this output port to the nvidia emitter then installing the nvidia drivers?

Could you provide me with the year/model num of your DLP?

Thanks

#46
Posted 05/17/2011 08:10 PM   
[quote name='michaelsheen' date='17 May 2011 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1305626774' post='1238150']
This is with me.I don't see how anyone can say 720p doesn't look good compared to 1080p unless they have never seen the 2 in person. Having tried many 3D games at 1080p and 720p, it was very hard to see any visual quality difference at all. In addition to that, chances are you can run higher settings and more AA, and the AA alone will even further reduce any difference between 1080p and 720p.
[/quote]

Are you talking about the differences between 3D gaming in 720p and 1080p in a 120hz display or 3D Ready HDTV? I mean, I can't also tell a big difference when looking to my Alienware 120hz display comparing 1080p and 720p, off course 1080p is better more eye candy, but not really a big deal. But if you have a Samsung HDTV than there's a considerable difference between 1080p24hz and 720p60hz in terms of 3D overall quality. It's very noticeable. The scaling for 3D gaming in 720p for Samsung is hideous, I don't know other TV brands cause I haven't tested them.


[quote name='roller11' date='17 May 2011 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1305646888' post='1238337']
I've observed the Frame Sequential superiority for 5 months, but like you did not understand the reason until a week ago.
It's because FS and FP use two different modes, PC and Video. Even though you set your HDMI1/DVI input to 'PC' pixel processing mode, the HDTV auto switches out of 'PC' PP mode and into 'Video' PP mode, the game is overridding your setting. This undesirable auto switch is due to frame pack being the mandatory 3D mode in all HDTVs, so there is nothing that can stop it. But checkerboard, Frame seq., and SBS are optional so 3D games stay in superior 'PC' pixel processing mode. This gives 720P frame pack a double curse, low res and wrong mode. That's why you see that 720P FP looks "hideous", and 1080P FP looks only slightly better. This doesn't happen on computer monitors because they aren't designed for broadcast video.
To understand this, open a text document on your desktop, navigate to 'input' from the TV's main menu, and switch between PC mode and Video mode. Notice how bad the text looks in Video mode, how sharp and crisp in PC mode. The image degradation in Video mode is the same degradation you are seeing in a 3D game in FP. Both FP and FS are identical resolution 2x 1920x1080 per frame, but image quality is very different just as you are reporting.

There's only one solution. Let me build you a overlay message suppressor circuit so that you can use checkerboard with your 3D Vision emitter. It will be small and pre-wired, just plug it in. Let me know.
[/quote]

Roller, I've actually never tried your modfix for enabling CB and FS for my Samsung C8000 3D Ready TV, but I think I'm willing to try it out just to see how it looks like.
I've tried CB before, but I was using Tridef trial and I had crap performance cause I didn't know I had to unckeck in the Nvidia Control Panel the box for stereoscopic 3D.
I really don't remember quite well it looked just the crap performance.

I'm curious though about this FS 1080p30hz per eye, but I also read you're saying that it's hard to maintain sycn even if you cover the 3dvision IR emitter with a shirt or put some object in front of it to block the signals, is that right? Using this mode I'll be still using Samsung's glasses right, not 3Dvisions?
I'm curious to try it out just to see this big difference you're talking about between Video mode and PC mode. As you state that only Frame Packing suffers from wrong pixel mode, video mode, cause it's the 3D mandatory mode, so If I try out this Frame sequential 1080p30hz it will function in PC mode right, so will 3D games look amazing like I see them using my Alienware 120hz display?

Damn, aren't Nvidia aware that FP works in video mode for 3D games which makes them look uglier? There should be a way to make Frame Packed for 3DTV Play work in PC mode instead of video mode, even if it's mandatory mode. That would be reasonable... Maybe 720p Frame packing should look better, at least how 3D games in 720p look in my Alienware 120h display which is not bad at all if The TV was in PC mode instead of video mode, what do you think?

I have an Onkyo 5.1 receiver HDMI 1.4 connected between my PC and Samsung C8000. I think your mod should also work for my receiver making the Nvidia drivers think it's a HDMI 1.3 receiver instead of HDMI 1.4, right?
I would like to be sure 1st that if I want to make my Onkyo 5.1 receiver to be recognized again as HDMI 1.4 won't be hard or make me need to reinstall my OS. Once I apply your modding do you have a file that I can replace the modded ini file to make my receiver HDMI 1.4 again? I really would like to have this guarantee before I try your modfix. I would like to go back to 3DTV Play if I decide to after trying out your modfix without any problems.

I only read you talking about the CB mode, but hardly about the FS 1080p30hz, and this second mode is the one that got my attention, not really CB. This FS mode has an advantage over CB for not having any annoying red message.
Also 30fps is a lot better than 24fps, making a lot other games that are not playable at 24fps playable at 30fps. 30 frames is usually the console frame rating, so it's not that bad for some games. But what I'm really curious about is the quality difference between Frame Sequential 1080p30hz (PC mode) vs Frame Packing 1080p24hz (Video mode). I really want to see this quality difference between video and PC mode you're talking about. I'm dying to see this difference and I like reading your explanations cause I learn about those differences. I thank you for that.

You said: To understand this, open a text document on your desktop, navigate to 'input' from the TV's main menu, and switch between PC mode and Video mode.
How do I switch between PC mode and Video mode using my Samsung C8000? I thought by just selecting game in my Onkyo receiver and to be able to see my desktop in the bigger screen I was already in PC mode. I have my BD player, PC and Cable sat all connected to my Onkyo receiver. I select AR receiver in my Samsung remote controller and then I use the receiver's controller to switch between game (PC), cable TV (cable sat) and bluray (samsung BD player). How do I know I'm in PC or video mode? I thought by selecting game (PC), then I was already in PC mode. I also select game mode when viewing games or desktop using my Samsung C8000 remote for better colour saturation.
I would like to try out this test you're refering about.

Let me know this...
[quote name='michaelsheen' date='17 May 2011 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1305626774' post='1238150']

This is with me.I don't see how anyone can say 720p doesn't look good compared to 1080p unless they have never seen the 2 in person. Having tried many 3D games at 1080p and 720p, it was very hard to see any visual quality difference at all. In addition to that, chances are you can run higher settings and more AA, and the AA alone will even further reduce any difference between 1080p and 720p.





Are you talking about the differences between 3D gaming in 720p and 1080p in a 120hz display or 3D Ready HDTV? I mean, I can't also tell a big difference when looking to my Alienware 120hz display comparing 1080p and 720p, off course 1080p is better more eye candy, but not really a big deal. But if you have a Samsung HDTV than there's a considerable difference between 1080p24hz and 720p60hz in terms of 3D overall quality. It's very noticeable. The scaling for 3D gaming in 720p for Samsung is hideous, I don't know other TV brands cause I haven't tested them.





[quote name='roller11' date='17 May 2011 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1305646888' post='1238337']

I've observed the Frame Sequential superiority for 5 months, but like you did not understand the reason until a week ago.

It's because FS and FP use two different modes, PC and Video. Even though you set your HDMI1/DVI input to 'PC' pixel processing mode, the HDTV auto switches out of 'PC' PP mode and into 'Video' PP mode, the game is overridding your setting. This undesirable auto switch is due to frame pack being the mandatory 3D mode in all HDTVs, so there is nothing that can stop it. But checkerboard, Frame seq., and SBS are optional so 3D games stay in superior 'PC' pixel processing mode. This gives 720P frame pack a double curse, low res and wrong mode. That's why you see that 720P FP looks "hideous", and 1080P FP looks only slightly better. This doesn't happen on computer monitors because they aren't designed for broadcast video.

To understand this, open a text document on your desktop, navigate to 'input' from the TV's main menu, and switch between PC mode and Video mode. Notice how bad the text looks in Video mode, how sharp and crisp in PC mode. The image degradation in Video mode is the same degradation you are seeing in a 3D game in FP. Both FP and FS are identical resolution 2x 1920x1080 per frame, but image quality is very different just as you are reporting.



There's only one solution. Let me build you a overlay message suppressor circuit so that you can use checkerboard with your 3D Vision emitter. It will be small and pre-wired, just plug it in. Let me know.





Roller, I've actually never tried your modfix for enabling CB and FS for my Samsung C8000 3D Ready TV, but I think I'm willing to try it out just to see how it looks like.

I've tried CB before, but I was using Tridef trial and I had crap performance cause I didn't know I had to unckeck in the Nvidia Control Panel the box for stereoscopic 3D.

I really don't remember quite well it looked just the crap performance.



I'm curious though about this FS 1080p30hz per eye, but I also read you're saying that it's hard to maintain sycn even if you cover the 3dvision IR emitter with a shirt or put some object in front of it to block the signals, is that right? Using this mode I'll be still using Samsung's glasses right, not 3Dvisions?

I'm curious to try it out just to see this big difference you're talking about between Video mode and PC mode. As you state that only Frame Packing suffers from wrong pixel mode, video mode, cause it's the 3D mandatory mode, so If I try out this Frame sequential 1080p30hz it will function in PC mode right, so will 3D games look amazing like I see them using my Alienware 120hz display?



Damn, aren't Nvidia aware that FP works in video mode for 3D games which makes them look uglier? There should be a way to make Frame Packed for 3DTV Play work in PC mode instead of video mode, even if it's mandatory mode. That would be reasonable... Maybe 720p Frame packing should look better, at least how 3D games in 720p look in my Alienware 120h display which is not bad at all if The TV was in PC mode instead of video mode, what do you think?



I have an Onkyo 5.1 receiver HDMI 1.4 connected between my PC and Samsung C8000. I think your mod should also work for my receiver making the Nvidia drivers think it's a HDMI 1.3 receiver instead of HDMI 1.4, right?

I would like to be sure 1st that if I want to make my Onkyo 5.1 receiver to be recognized again as HDMI 1.4 won't be hard or make me need to reinstall my OS. Once I apply your modding do you have a file that I can replace the modded ini file to make my receiver HDMI 1.4 again? I really would like to have this guarantee before I try your modfix. I would like to go back to 3DTV Play if I decide to after trying out your modfix without any problems.



I only read you talking about the CB mode, but hardly about the FS 1080p30hz, and this second mode is the one that got my attention, not really CB. This FS mode has an advantage over CB for not having any annoying red message.

Also 30fps is a lot better than 24fps, making a lot other games that are not playable at 24fps playable at 30fps. 30 frames is usually the console frame rating, so it's not that bad for some games. But what I'm really curious about is the quality difference between Frame Sequential 1080p30hz (PC mode) vs Frame Packing 1080p24hz (Video mode). I really want to see this quality difference between video and PC mode you're talking about. I'm dying to see this difference and I like reading your explanations cause I learn about those differences. I thank you for that.



You said: To understand this, open a text document on your desktop, navigate to 'input' from the TV's main menu, and switch between PC mode and Video mode.

How do I switch between PC mode and Video mode using my Samsung C8000? I thought by just selecting game in my Onkyo receiver and to be able to see my desktop in the bigger screen I was already in PC mode. I have my BD player, PC and Cable sat all connected to my Onkyo receiver. I select AR receiver in my Samsung remote controller and then I use the receiver's controller to switch between game (PC), cable TV (cable sat) and bluray (samsung BD player). How do I know I'm in PC or video mode? I thought by selecting game (PC), then I was already in PC mode. I also select game mode when viewing games or desktop using my Samsung C8000 remote for better colour saturation.

I would like to try out this test you're refering about.



Let me know this...

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD

#47
Posted 05/17/2011 09:23 PM   
[quote name='francomg' date='17 May 2011 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1305667394' post='1238535']
Roller, I've actually never tried your modfix for enabling CB and FS for my Samsung C8000 3D Ready TV, but I think I'm willing to try it out just to see how it looks like.
I've tried CB before, but I was using Tridef trial and I had crap performance cause I didn't know I had to unckeck in the Nvidia Control Panel the box for stereoscopic 3D.
I really don't remember quite well it looked just the crap performance. [/quote]
A valid test requires that you use Nvidia software in both CB and FP modes.

[quote]I'm curious though about this FS 1080p30hz per eye, but I also read you're saying that it's hard to maintain sycn even if you cover the 3dvision IR emitter with a shirt or put some object in front of it to block the signals, is that right?[/quote]
I did say that a while ago. However, I just tried that again by throwing a thin cloth over the emitter and had no problem with sync. Of course one can simply unplug the HW sync signal to the emitter if there is a problem with sync.
[quote] so If I try out this Frame sequential 1080p30hz it will function in PC mode right, so will 3D games look amazing like I see them using my Alienware 120hz display?[/quote]
LOL! I can't say because I've never tried computer monitor since 2006. :)

[quote]Maybe 720p Frame packing should look better, at least how 3D games in 720p look in my Alienware 120h display which is not bad at all if The TV was in PC mode instead of video mode, what do you think?[/quote]
I think you exactly prove my point. 720P does not look bad on a monitor because monitor is always in PC mode, not Video mode. This supports my claim that the problem is Video mode as much as low res 720P.

[quote]I have an Onkyo 5.1 receiver HDMI 1.4 connected between my PC and Samsung C8000. I think your mod should also work for my receiver making the Nvidia drivers think it's a HDMI 1.3 receiver instead of HDMI 1.4, right? [/quote]
Don't know, never tested it. My guess is that the Onkyo will be transparent, that is, rollermod will still force 3D Vision set up.
[quote]I would like to be sure 1st that if I want to make my Onkyo 5.1 receiver to be recognized again as HDMI 1.4 won't be hard or make me need to reinstall my OS. Once I apply your modding do you have a file that I can replace the modded ini file to make my receiver HDMI 1.4 again? I really would like to have this guarantee before I try your modfix. I would like to go back to 3DTV Play if I decide to after trying out your modfix without any problems. [/quote]
I can tell you that I have a second .inf that does exactly that, it resets back to 3DTV Play. To be safe, you should try rollermod without your Onkyo, make sure it works. Then add in Onkyo. There is a slight chance that my "reset" file may not work on your Samsung since I can only test on my Samsung which is different from yours (Plasma C7000). To remove risk, make a system restore point before you install rollermod. That way, no matter what, you can restore to the point of 3DTV Play/generic PnP monitor. I have done this many times in my testing.

[quote] I'm really curious about is the quality difference between Frame Sequential 1080p30hz (PC mode) vs Frame Packing 1080p24hz (Video mode). I really want to see this quality difference between video and PC mode you're talking about. [/quote]
To see this difference you must play 3D game in both 1080P / 24 FP and 1080P /30 FS. That means you must install 3D Vision and 3DTV Play seperately.
BTW, I share the below quote from AustinTex I got in a PM, it regards the visual difference between PC mode and Video mode in 2D desktop:

" mode DEFINITELY makes a difference. And yes, the tv treats pc modes differently. They look very different."

Austin did the same experiment on his D8000 LED that I described below. Above quote is his feedback in PM.





[quote]You said: To understand this, open a text document on your desktop, navigate to 'input' from the TV's main menu, and switch between PC mode and Video mode.
How do I switch between PC mode and Video mode using my Samsung C8000? [/quote]
You cannot use Onkyo to select pixel processing mode, that is done by the HDTV. The mechanism is by input label selection.
Navigate to Samsung main menu > input > edit > HDMI1/DVI. Scroll through labels. Choose label "DVI PC" or "PC" to put your Samsung in PC pixel mode. Choose any other label to do Video pixel mode. This is what Austin did that prompted his feedback. Note that this applies only to HDMI1/DVI input. HDMI2-4 are stuck on Video mode. Notice that when you change from PC <> Video modes the TV screen will go completely blank for 1-2 seconds proving the mode is changing.

If you don't want to test with rollermod, you can install CD1.33 and you will get 3D Vision, just be sure your emitter is plugged in. Of course you will not have latest game profiles and red overlay will be seen in CB, but you can get some idea. Best is to use rollermod without risk (restore point) as I've explained above.
[quote name='francomg' date='17 May 2011 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1305667394' post='1238535']

Roller, I've actually never tried your modfix for enabling CB and FS for my Samsung C8000 3D Ready TV, but I think I'm willing to try it out just to see how it looks like.

I've tried CB before, but I was using Tridef trial and I had crap performance cause I didn't know I had to unckeck in the Nvidia Control Panel the box for stereoscopic 3D.

I really don't remember quite well it looked just the crap performance.

A valid test requires that you use Nvidia software in both CB and FP modes.



I'm curious though about this FS 1080p30hz per eye, but I also read you're saying that it's hard to maintain sycn even if you cover the 3dvision IR emitter with a shirt or put some object in front of it to block the signals, is that right?


I did say that a while ago. However, I just tried that again by throwing a thin cloth over the emitter and had no problem with sync. Of course one can simply unplug the HW sync signal to the emitter if there is a problem with sync.

so If I try out this Frame sequential 1080p30hz it will function in PC mode right, so will 3D games look amazing like I see them using my Alienware 120hz display?


LOL! I can't say because I've never tried computer monitor since 2006. :)



Maybe 720p Frame packing should look better, at least how 3D games in 720p look in my Alienware 120h display which is not bad at all if The TV was in PC mode instead of video mode, what do you think?


I think you exactly prove my point. 720P does not look bad on a monitor because monitor is always in PC mode, not Video mode. This supports my claim that the problem is Video mode as much as low res 720P.



I have an Onkyo 5.1 receiver HDMI 1.4 connected between my PC and Samsung C8000. I think your mod should also work for my receiver making the Nvidia drivers think it's a HDMI 1.3 receiver instead of HDMI 1.4, right?


Don't know, never tested it. My guess is that the Onkyo will be transparent, that is, rollermod will still force 3D Vision set up.

I would like to be sure 1st that if I want to make my Onkyo 5.1 receiver to be recognized again as HDMI 1.4 won't be hard or make me need to reinstall my OS. Once I apply your modding do you have a file that I can replace the modded ini file to make my receiver HDMI 1.4 again? I really would like to have this guarantee before I try your modfix. I would like to go back to 3DTV Play if I decide to after trying out your modfix without any problems.


I can tell you that I have a second .inf that does exactly that, it resets back to 3DTV Play. To be safe, you should try rollermod without your Onkyo, make sure it works. Then add in Onkyo. There is a slight chance that my "reset" file may not work on your Samsung since I can only test on my Samsung which is different from yours (Plasma C7000). To remove risk, make a system restore point before you install rollermod. That way, no matter what, you can restore to the point of 3DTV Play/generic PnP monitor. I have done this many times in my testing.



I'm really curious about is the quality difference between Frame Sequential 1080p30hz (PC mode) vs Frame Packing 1080p24hz (Video mode). I really want to see this quality difference between video and PC mode you're talking about.


To see this difference you must play 3D game in both 1080P / 24 FP and 1080P /30 FS. That means you must install 3D Vision and 3DTV Play seperately.

BTW, I share the below quote from AustinTex I got in a PM, it regards the visual difference between PC mode and Video mode in 2D desktop:



" mode DEFINITELY makes a difference. And yes, the tv treats pc modes differently. They look very different."



Austin did the same experiment on his D8000 LED that I described below. Above quote is his feedback in PM.











You said: To understand this, open a text document on your desktop, navigate to 'input' from the TV's main menu, and switch between PC mode and Video mode.

How do I switch between PC mode and Video mode using my Samsung C8000?


You cannot use Onkyo to select pixel processing mode, that is done by the HDTV. The mechanism is by input label selection.

Navigate to Samsung main menu > input > edit > HDMI1/DVI. Scroll through labels. Choose label "DVI PC" or "PC" to put your Samsung in PC pixel mode. Choose any other label to do Video pixel mode. This is what Austin did that prompted his feedback. Note that this applies only to HDMI1/DVI input. HDMI2-4 are stuck on Video mode. Notice that when you change from PC <> Video modes the TV screen will go completely blank for 1-2 seconds proving the mode is changing.



If you don't want to test with rollermod, you can install CD1.33 and you will get 3D Vision, just be sure your emitter is plugged in. Of course you will not have latest game profiles and red overlay will be seen in CB, but you can get some idea. Best is to use rollermod without risk (restore point) as I've explained above.

#48
Posted 05/18/2011 12:15 AM   
Maybe my TV doesn't handle well 3D 720p60hz frame packing, but it does in 1080p and all 3D videos, especially bluray3D I've tried look amazing. Saying that Plasma was made acceptable for 3D is unacceptable. Plasma is better than LED for 3D and I think you're aware that Panasonic Plasma was considered the best 3D TV of 2010.


_________________________

[url="http://modern-family.episodesworld.com/"]watch Modern Family online[/url]
[url="http://top-chef.episodesworld.com/"]watch Top Chef online[/url]
Maybe my TV doesn't handle well 3D 720p60hz frame packing, but it does in 1080p and all 3D videos, especially bluray3D I've tried look amazing. Saying that Plasma was made acceptable for 3D is unacceptable. Plasma is better than LED for 3D and I think you're aware that Panasonic Plasma was considered the best 3D TV of 2010.





_________________________



watch Modern Family online

watch Top Chef online

#49
Posted 05/18/2011 06:53 AM   
[quote name='roller11' date='17 May 2011 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1305663048' post='1238487']
Followed the link and the manual showed a '3D glasses out' port on the TV's back panel. This presumeably would connect to the nvidia emitter. Have you tried connecting this output port to the nvidia emitter then installing the nvidia drivers?
Could you provide me with the year/model num of your DLP?
Thanks
[/quote]
year is 2010, model 82838..

The 3d glases out port on the back of the Mitsubishi is not compatible with nvidia emitter usb connection. Not sure why you are suggesting to try the nvidia emitter instead of the Mitsubishi emitter. Do you think that would trick the nvidia during installation into eliminating the checkerboard mode red warning label for good? or are you suggesting i use the nvidia glasses instead of the Mitsubishi glasses?. (I dont think they are compatible; mitubishi essentially uses Samsung shutterglasses). I thought your gizmo was required to fool the nvidia drivers in real time through the hdmi connection.

As of now I can use 3d vision with your rollermod to get cb mode. 3d picture is great except for the red warning text. I cannot get 3d play to work with my set however even though the nvidia page shows it as compatible. (dont really care to get that to work however until they allow cb mode). In the mean time I am getting more and more satisfied with tridef drivers - so much less hassel. Install and presto I have cb mode.
[quote name='roller11' date='17 May 2011 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1305663048' post='1238487']

Followed the link and the manual showed a '3D glasses out' port on the TV's back panel. This presumeably would connect to the nvidia emitter. Have you tried connecting this output port to the nvidia emitter then installing the nvidia drivers?

Could you provide me with the year/model num of your DLP?

Thanks



year is 2010, model 82838..



The 3d glases out port on the back of the Mitsubishi is not compatible with nvidia emitter usb connection. Not sure why you are suggesting to try the nvidia emitter instead of the Mitsubishi emitter. Do you think that would trick the nvidia during installation into eliminating the checkerboard mode red warning label for good? or are you suggesting i use the nvidia glasses instead of the Mitsubishi glasses?. (I dont think they are compatible; mitubishi essentially uses Samsung shutterglasses). I thought your gizmo was required to fool the nvidia drivers in real time through the hdmi connection.



As of now I can use 3d vision with your rollermod to get cb mode. 3d picture is great except for the red warning text. I cannot get 3d play to work with my set however even though the nvidia page shows it as compatible. (dont really care to get that to work however until they allow cb mode). In the mean time I am getting more and more satisfied with tridef drivers - so much less hassel. Install and presto I have cb mode.

#50
Posted 05/18/2011 05:26 PM   
[quote name='Edo1946' date='18 May 2011 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1305739589' post='1239078']
year is 2010, model 82838..

The 3d glases out port on the back of the Mitsubishi is not compatible with nvidia emitter usb connection. [/quote]
No, not that cable. There is another cable, the sync cable provided with the 3D Vision kit. On the one end it has a connector that plugs into the 'emitter glasses' port on your TV. The other end goes to the round 3/32" jack on the nvidia emitter. The 'emitter glasses' signal should suppress the red overlay message.
[quote] or are you suggesting i use the nvidia glasses instead of the Mitsubishi glasses?. (I dont think they are compatible; mitubishi essentially uses Samsung shutterglasses).[/quote]
No, the Mit's glasses must be used.
[quote]I thought your gizmo was required to fool the nvidia drivers in real time through the hdmi connection.[/quote]
No, my gizmo plugs into the nvidia emitter. It's signal is detected by the nvidia drivers through the USB cable that goes between the nvidia emitter and the computer.

Try connecting the "emitter glasses" signal to the emitter with the cable in the 3D Vision kit.
If not, I'll gladly build you a small unobtrusive gizmo that will suppress the message.

Most people are speculating CB in 3DTV Play will happen sometime in 2012, and Andrew is not denying that possiblity.
Nvidia could easily put a five second timeout on the red overlay message and instantly solve all our problems. Oh wait.....that would need to be "scheduled" so it can't be done.
[quote name='Edo1946' date='18 May 2011 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1305739589' post='1239078']

year is 2010, model 82838..



The 3d glases out port on the back of the Mitsubishi is not compatible with nvidia emitter usb connection.

No, not that cable. There is another cable, the sync cable provided with the 3D Vision kit. On the one end it has a connector that plugs into the 'emitter glasses' port on your TV. The other end goes to the round 3/32" jack on the nvidia emitter. The 'emitter glasses' signal should suppress the red overlay message.

or are you suggesting i use the nvidia glasses instead of the Mitsubishi glasses?. (I dont think they are compatible; mitubishi essentially uses Samsung shutterglasses).


No, the Mit's glasses must be used.

I thought your gizmo was required to fool the nvidia drivers in real time through the hdmi connection.


No, my gizmo plugs into the nvidia emitter. It's signal is detected by the nvidia drivers through the USB cable that goes between the nvidia emitter and the computer.



Try connecting the "emitter glasses" signal to the emitter with the cable in the 3D Vision kit.

If not, I'll gladly build you a small unobtrusive gizmo that will suppress the message.



Most people are speculating CB in 3DTV Play will happen sometime in 2012, and Andrew is not denying that possiblity.

Nvidia could easily put a five second timeout on the red overlay message and instantly solve all our problems. Oh wait.....that would need to be "scheduled" so it can't be done.

#51
Posted 05/18/2011 07:08 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']

A valid test requires that you use Nvidia software in both CB and FP modes.
I did say that a while ago. However, I just tried that again by throwing a thin cloth over the emitter and had no problem with sync. Of course one can simply unplug the HW sync signal to the emitter if there is a problem with sync.
LOL! I can't say because I've never tried computer monitor since 2006. :)
[/quote]

Oh, that sounds interesting, so if I put a t-shirt over the 3D vision IR receiver than I won’t have sync problems? I still must use Samsung glasses, right?
What do you mean by unplugging HW sync signal to the emitter? what HW stands for? Explain this better, I’m a bit lost about this procedure.

[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']

I think you exactly prove my point. 720P does not look bad on a monitor because monitor is always in PC mode, not Video mode. This supports my claim that the problem is Video mode as much as low res 720P.
Don't know, never tested it. My guess is that the Onkyo will be transparent, that is, rollermod will still force 3D Vision set up.
I can tell you that I have a second .inf that does exactly that, it resets back to 3DTV Play. To be safe, you should try rollermod without your Onkyo, make sure it works. Then add in Onkyo. There is a slight chance that my "reset" file may not work on your Samsung since I can only test on my Samsung which is different from yours (Plasma C7000). To remove risk, make a system restore point before you install rollermod. That way, no matter what, you can restore to the point of 3DTV Play/generic PnP monitor. I have done this many times in my testing.
[/quote]

Actually my TV is the same as yours. The difference is that my Samsung C7000 is a brazilian model which would be exactly the same as US model C8000. My C7000 63"Plasma 3D Ready TV has that shining metal remote control just like your TV.

If I create a restore point before applying your rollermod I’ll have no problem going back to the original inf file for HDMI 1.4? I know restore points don’t affect personal files and stuff like that, so are you sure it will go back to the original inf file in case I have trouble going back to HDMI 1.4 using your replace rollermod inf file for 3DTV Play/genericPnP monitor?

Thanks for poiting that out... It’s Always good to avoid risks and be safe. I need 3DTV Play for BD3D.

[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']

To see this difference you must play 3D game in both 1080P / 24 FP and 1080P /30 FS. That means you must install 3D Vision and 3DTV Play separately.
BTW, I share the below quote from AustinTex I got in a PM, it regards the visual difference between PC mode and Video mode in 2D desktop:

" mode DEFINITELY makes a difference. And yes, the tv treats pc modes differently. They look very different."

Austin did the same experiment on his D8000 LED that I described below. Above quote is his feedback in PM.
[/quote]

I guess you don’t mean install 3D Vision and frame packing separately, since I already have both modes installed. I use FP for Samsung 3D Plasma and 3D Vision for my Alienware 120hz display. I think you meant to replace the inf file so I can try out 3D Vision (CB and FS) in my Samsung since I already have 3DTV Play installed.

[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']

You cannot use Onkyo to select pixel processing mode, that is done by the HDTV. The mechanism is by input label selection.
Navigate to Samsung main menu > input > edit > HDMI1/DVI. Scroll through labels. Choose label "DVI PC" or "PC" to put your Samsung in PC pixel mode.
Choose any other label to do Video pixel mode. This is what Austin did that prompted his feedback. Note that this applies only to HDMI1/DVI input. HDMI2-4 are stuck on Video mode.
Notice that when you change from PC <> Video modes the TV screen will go completely blank for 1-2 seconds proving the mode is changing.

If you don't want to test with rollermod, you can install CD1.33 and you will get 3D Vision, just be sure your emitter is plugged in. Of course you will not have latest game profiles and red overlay will be seen in CB, but you can get some idea. Best is to use rollermod without risk (restore point) as I've explained above.
[/quote]

Actually I did a few tests yesterday just to see your point about the differences between Video and PC pixel processing modes.
It was easy to select PC mode, no need to disconnect my Onkyo receiver. I usually have AR receiver selected for my Samsung TV and that’s a Video mode since I can only see three 3D modes, not 7. I made the test you told me to open a Word document and switch between Video and PC mode. I than selected PC/DVI instead of AR Receiver and the screen blinked for 1 second and I was in PC mode. It’s true there’s a big difference. PC mode definitely works different than video mode, it shows more details and no edges, but in the other hand colors are very opaque.

Then I did another test, I played the game Just Cause 2 in 2D and I switched between video mode and PC mode just to see the differences. In Video mode there are edges around objects, it’s hard to explain, but the colors look good, more vivid, shining. Plus you can select game mode to make colors look even better for gaming.
PC mode looks a little bit better, no edges around objects, but in the other hand the colours don’t look to good, they look opaque compared to Video mode, and there’s no game mode available. This option is greyed out in PC mode.

Finally I’ve made the same test for 3D gaming using Crysis 2 that I would like to let you know. I have Crysis 2 installed in my PC and I’m not sure you aware that this game has native 3D tech, no need for 3D Vision or 3DTV Play. It offers side-by-side and interlaced (checkerboard) modes.

I’ve played Crysis in side-by-side 3D mode in PC mode and then in video mode just to watch those details differences and now I know what you’re talking about.
Hopefully it was easy to select PC and Video mode during Crysis 2 gameplay just using the Samsung remote control and switching between AR Receiver and PC/DVI inputs.
I realized that Video mode has much better colour saturation, but it has edges around objects. I’ve tried 1920x1080p60hz in video and PC modes.

It’s true that PC mode has more detailed graphics and doesn’t show edges like video mode does, but the opaque colors made me think if it’s really worth playing 3D games in PC mode instead of video mode? That was the big issue for me, the color saturation in PC mode don’t look very good compared to video mode, colors look lifeless and opaque.

I’ve also tried Crysis 2 in interlaced (checkerboard) mode which is only possible in PC mode, since video mode doesn’t support this 3D option. I also had to use picture correction twice to make the 3D effect work correctly. CB swaps sides so you need to use picture correction, twice, that’s weird, one time should do the job, probably a Samsung bug. Anyway I found CB to be identical to side-by-side (PC mode). I Didn’t notice any difference at all.

Crysis 2 is a very good test to compare PC mode vs video mode in 3D gaming, cause you can select side-by-side 3D mode in PC and video mode at the same time without having to use your rollermod if you own a Samsung 3DTV. Avatar also has a in game 3D tech that offers CB, SBS among other 3D modes, but I haven’t tested it yet. I do have the game installed, I was just lazy to try it out yesterday I guess.

My conclusions so far are: PC mode does look very different compared to video mode. TV really treats PC and Video pixel processing modes very differently. Video mode always looks it needs more Anti Aliasing than PC mode cause it shows edges around objecys that are not visible in PC mode.

PC mode should really be the pixel processing mode for 2D and 3D gaming but it has a problem with colors, they look very opaque compared to the shining and vivid colors I see in video mode. Roller, how do you deal with the color problem in PC mode cause I’ve never read any comments you made regarding this issue.

Anyway, I already have an idea of how CB looks cause Crysis 2 testing, but I’m now curious about the FS 1080p30hz VS FP 1080p24hz, but I first need to use your rollermod to be able to test this out. Now I have my doubts about CB since it will only work in PC mode and therefore suffers from ugly and opaque color saturation. If Nvidia implemented SBS instead, then we would have the option to play 3D games in both video and pixel processing mode. We would have more choices. I wish there was a way to make colors look more shining and vivid in PC mode just like they look in video mode.

Roller, please can you place a link in this thread with your rollermod fix and also a link with the replace inf file to go back to HDMI 1.4? I can’t find those links, that CB thread of yours is not in the main forum page anymore.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']



A valid test requires that you use Nvidia software in both CB and FP modes.

I did say that a while ago. However, I just tried that again by throwing a thin cloth over the emitter and had no problem with sync. Of course one can simply unplug the HW sync signal to the emitter if there is a problem with sync.

LOL! I can't say because I've never tried computer monitor since 2006. :)





Oh, that sounds interesting, so if I put a t-shirt over the 3D vision IR receiver than I won’t have sync problems? I still must use Samsung glasses, right?

What do you mean by unplugging HW sync signal to the emitter? what HW stands for? Explain this better, I’m a bit lost about this procedure.



[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']



I think you exactly prove my point. 720P does not look bad on a monitor because monitor is always in PC mode, not Video mode. This supports my claim that the problem is Video mode as much as low res 720P.

Don't know, never tested it. My guess is that the Onkyo will be transparent, that is, rollermod will still force 3D Vision set up.

I can tell you that I have a second .inf that does exactly that, it resets back to 3DTV Play. To be safe, you should try rollermod without your Onkyo, make sure it works. Then add in Onkyo. There is a slight chance that my "reset" file may not work on your Samsung since I can only test on my Samsung which is different from yours (Plasma C7000). To remove risk, make a system restore point before you install rollermod. That way, no matter what, you can restore to the point of 3DTV Play/generic PnP monitor. I have done this many times in my testing.





Actually my TV is the same as yours. The difference is that my Samsung C7000 is a brazilian model which would be exactly the same as US model C8000. My C7000 63"Plasma 3D Ready TV has that shining metal remote control just like your TV.



If I create a restore point before applying your rollermod I’ll have no problem going back to the original inf file for HDMI 1.4? I know restore points don’t affect personal files and stuff like that, so are you sure it will go back to the original inf file in case I have trouble going back to HDMI 1.4 using your replace rollermod inf file for 3DTV Play/genericPnP monitor?



Thanks for poiting that out... It’s Always good to avoid risks and be safe. I need 3DTV Play for BD3D.



[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']



To see this difference you must play 3D game in both 1080P / 24 FP and 1080P /30 FS. That means you must install 3D Vision and 3DTV Play separately.

BTW, I share the below quote from AustinTex I got in a PM, it regards the visual difference between PC mode and Video mode in 2D desktop:



" mode DEFINITELY makes a difference. And yes, the tv treats pc modes differently. They look very different."



Austin did the same experiment on his D8000 LED that I described below. Above quote is his feedback in PM.





I guess you don’t mean install 3D Vision and frame packing separately, since I already have both modes installed. I use FP for Samsung 3D Plasma and 3D Vision for my Alienware 120hz display. I think you meant to replace the inf file so I can try out 3D Vision (CB and FS) in my Samsung since I already have 3DTV Play installed.



[quote name='roller11' date='18 May 2011 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1305677738' post='1238619']



You cannot use Onkyo to select pixel processing mode, that is done by the HDTV. The mechanism is by input label selection.

Navigate to Samsung main menu > input > edit > HDMI1/DVI. Scroll through labels. Choose label "DVI PC" or "PC" to put your Samsung in PC pixel mode.

Choose any other label to do Video pixel mode. This is what Austin did that prompted his feedback. Note that this applies only to HDMI1/DVI input. HDMI2-4 are stuck on Video mode.

Notice that when you change from PC <> Video modes the TV screen will go completely blank for 1-2 seconds proving the mode is changing.



If you don't want to test with rollermod, you can install CD1.33 and you will get 3D Vision, just be sure your emitter is plugged in. Of course you will not have latest game profiles and red overlay will be seen in CB, but you can get some idea. Best is to use rollermod without risk (restore point) as I've explained above.





Actually I did a few tests yesterday just to see your point about the differences between Video and PC pixel processing modes.

It was easy to select PC mode, no need to disconnect my Onkyo receiver. I usually have AR receiver selected for my Samsung TV and that’s a Video mode since I can only see three 3D modes, not 7. I made the test you told me to open a Word document and switch between Video and PC mode. I than selected PC/DVI instead of AR Receiver and the screen blinked for 1 second and I was in PC mode. It’s true there’s a big difference. PC mode definitely works different than video mode, it shows more details and no edges, but in the other hand colors are very opaque.



Then I did another test, I played the game Just Cause 2 in 2D and I switched between video mode and PC mode just to see the differences. In Video mode there are edges around objects, it’s hard to explain, but the colors look good, more vivid, shining. Plus you can select game mode to make colors look even better for gaming.

PC mode looks a little bit better, no edges around objects, but in the other hand the colours don’t look to good, they look opaque compared to Video mode, and there’s no game mode available. This option is greyed out in PC mode.



Finally I’ve made the same test for 3D gaming using Crysis 2 that I would like to let you know. I have Crysis 2 installed in my PC and I’m not sure you aware that this game has native 3D tech, no need for 3D Vision or 3DTV Play. It offers side-by-side and interlaced (checkerboard) modes.



I’ve played Crysis in side-by-side 3D mode in PC mode and then in video mode just to watch those details differences and now I know what you’re talking about.

Hopefully it was easy to select PC and Video mode during Crysis 2 gameplay just using the Samsung remote control and switching between AR Receiver and PC/DVI inputs.

I realized that Video mode has much better colour saturation, but it has edges around objects. I’ve tried 1920x1080p60hz in video and PC modes.



It’s true that PC mode has more detailed graphics and doesn’t show edges like video mode does, but the opaque colors made me think if it’s really worth playing 3D games in PC mode instead of video mode? That was the big issue for me, the color saturation in PC mode don’t look very good compared to video mode, colors look lifeless and opaque.



I’ve also tried Crysis 2 in interlaced (checkerboard) mode which is only possible in PC mode, since video mode doesn’t support this 3D option. I also had to use picture correction twice to make the 3D effect work correctly. CB swaps sides so you need to use picture correction, twice, that’s weird, one time should do the job, probably a Samsung bug. Anyway I found CB to be identical to side-by-side (PC mode). I Didn’t notice any difference at all.



Crysis 2 is a very good test to compare PC mode vs video mode in 3D gaming, cause you can select side-by-side 3D mode in PC and video mode at the same time without having to use your rollermod if you own a Samsung 3DTV. Avatar also has a in game 3D tech that offers CB, SBS among other 3D modes, but I haven’t tested it yet. I do have the game installed, I was just lazy to try it out yesterday I guess.



My conclusions so far are: PC mode does look very different compared to video mode. TV really treats PC and Video pixel processing modes very differently. Video mode always looks it needs more Anti Aliasing than PC mode cause it shows edges around objecys that are not visible in PC mode.



PC mode should really be the pixel processing mode for 2D and 3D gaming but it has a problem with colors, they look very opaque compared to the shining and vivid colors I see in video mode. Roller, how do you deal with the color problem in PC mode cause I’ve never read any comments you made regarding this issue.



Anyway, I already have an idea of how CB looks cause Crysis 2 testing, but I’m now curious about the FS 1080p30hz VS FP 1080p24hz, but I first need to use your rollermod to be able to test this out. Now I have my doubts about CB since it will only work in PC mode and therefore suffers from ugly and opaque color saturation. If Nvidia implemented SBS instead, then we would have the option to play 3D games in both video and pixel processing mode. We would have more choices. I wish there was a way to make colors look more shining and vivid in PC mode just like they look in video mode.



Roller, please can you place a link in this thread with your rollermod fix and also a link with the replace inf file to go back to HDMI 1.4? I can’t find those links, that CB thread of yours is not in the main forum page anymore.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD

#52
Posted 05/18/2011 08:47 PM   
.
.

#53
Posted 05/19/2011 03:09 AM   
Thanks for the files Roller.

I thought you would comment about the colour issue I've noticed in PC mode? Is there a way to make the colours look better?
Thanks for the files Roller.



I thought you would comment about the colour issue I've noticed in PC mode? Is there a way to make the colours look better?

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD

#54
Posted 05/19/2011 01:04 PM   
[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']
Yes, samsung glasses must be used. 'HW' stands for hardware. The signal going to the nvidia emitter can cause a loss of sync because it generates a bogus sync signal. Fix is to block the emitter with cloth, or unplug the signal from the nvidia emitter. In frame seqential, there is no need for this signal so you can unplug it. It's needed only for checkerboard.
[/quote]

So I can just disconnect the USB cable from 3Dvision IR receiver when using FS 1080p30hz?
So this frame sequential 3D mode 1080p30hz is the same one 3Dvision uses for 120hz display? Therefore it works much better in a 120hz LCD display cause than we’ll have 1080p60hz per eye, so it’s 60fps instead of 30hz. It’s a pity that 3D Ready TV’s are all 60hz and not 120hz, otherwise 3dvision (FS) would work perfectly for Samsung 3D ready TV’s using your modfix.

[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']
Yes, absolutely, 100% sure. Restoring your computer this way will undo everything you did with rollermod, make it just like before rollermod. I do it many times.
I meant that both 3DTV Play and 3D vision cannot be installed at the same time, so you can't access FP and CB at the same time for a 3D game on your Samsung HDTV. How are you using FP for your SAmsung and 3D Vision for your Alienware monitor? This implies 3DTV Play and 3D Vision co-exist. Do you have them on seperate partitions?
Which did you prefer? Will you use video mode for your desktop from now on?
[/quote]

Ok, I’ll definatelly create a restore point before applying your mod fix. BTW, how’s the installation procedure for your rollermod? I can’t find that thread about CB you’ve created a few months ago.
It’s very simple how I have 3Dvision and frame packing installed, no need for separate partitions. I guess as you don’t own a 120hz LCD display you don’t understand this.
I have my PC, Samsung TV and Onkyo receiver all connected together. If I set my Samsung TV as primary display for my desktop and then open Nvidia Control Panel I’ll see 3DTV Play logo and I’ll be able to choose between 1080p24hz or 720p60hz FP for 3D Games. Now If I set my Alienware 23” 120hz display as primary display and open Nvidia control panel I’ll see the 3Dvision logo instead of 3DTV Play and my desktop will be at 120hz instead of 60hz. I’ll be able to play games in my Alienware monitor at any resolution I want in 120hz, 1080p, 1050p, 1440p among many others and all in 120hz frame sequential = 60fps per eye. So, yes I have both 3D Vision and 3DTV Play installed, I just need to decide if I’ll use my Samsung TV (3DTV Play + Samsung glasses) or my Alienware 120hz display (3D Vision Kit +3D vision glasses).


[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']
I don't understand 'AR receiver', is that an input label? I don't see it on my list of input labels.
I believe you are doing the experiment correctly. But we see the same thing and come to opposite conclusions. The PC mode 'opaque' look you dislike I very much like. Yes, the colors in Video mode are much more saturated, but for me this is a bad thing, it looks unnatural and 'cartoonish'. Also seems much less detailed vs PC mode. I try this in at least 12 different games, always I like PC mode by far, no question. Only possible exception is Call of Duty, not Black ops, the CoD just before black ops. In that game, there was very little difference between PC and Video modes.
This tells me that you and I have very different taste in graphics. So my question is, which did you prefer overall? If Video mode and PC mode had same frame rate, same performance, same resolution, would you choose Video or PC mode for 3D gaming?
[/quote]

LOL, you don’t understand AR Receiver cause it’s in Portuguese language instead of English. Samsung lets you choose many languages for its menu options. Yours is in English that’s why you don’t understand this input label. It’s a label if you’re using a receiver, just that.
Yes, I agree that graphics look much more detailed in PC mode. Do you also notice those annoying edges in video mode, like the game needs more AA? PC mode corrects this issue and I like that very much. Yes, I had a bad impression about the colors in PC mode, maybe it’s because I got used to video mode watching movies and playing a few games in 3D in video mode as FP only works in video mode.
You agree that for movies, TV broadcast and bluray, bluray3D we need video mode right, PC mode definitely lacks in this area, agree? It’s only for PC gaming and desktop ends.
I need to do a lot more testing to answer your question. I can’t say now which pixel processing mode I prefer. I’ve only tested Crysis 2 in 3D and Just Cause 2 in 2D just for a few minutes, not going to rush my conclusions. PC mode has a lot advantages, I just need to do further more testing and try out your rollermod, so I can see if I get used to PC mode colors that I had the impression that are opaque compared to video mode.

[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']
To me, this is not a problem, so no fix is necessary, so I made no comment. If you prefer the more oversaturated look, try increasing the color in the nvidia CP. I haven't tried it, don't know if those controls affect games. I tried the samsung menu but 'color' was greyed out in games.
I'm very confused about something.....
You have been very strong in asking Nvidia for CB mode. But now you say that CB " suffers from ugly and opaque color saturation" It would seem that you would not like CB since that is automatically PC mode, not Video, so I'm very confused about that. When you were asking for CB, had you ever 3D gamed in CB? Please explain this contradiction.[/quote]


Yes, I’ve tried Tridef checkerboard a few months ago, I’ve told you so already. This was before 3DTV Play, cause it wasn’t available yet. And I was pissed cause the performance was miserable, I didn’t know I had to unckeck the stereoscopic 3D option in the Nvidia control panel. I’ve tried GTA IV, Mafia 2 and other games. Some looked fine and some didn’t. But I did like frame packing a lot more cause It was full resolution per eye, but I agree that 24hz is not suitable at all for gaming. I haven’t tried Nvidia checkerboard yet. It may not look the same as Tridef CB, what do you think?
I still think that Nvidia should give us SBS instead of CB, cause everyone that has a 3DTV would benefit from that. Considering that new Samsung 2011 models don’t support CB anymore, only SBS. Also, with SBS being identical to CB, we also can play SBS in PC mode and Video mode, unlike CB. So, SBS is the way to go and Nvidia should aim it’s efforts I think.

[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']
There is a fix for this eye order problem. Install CD1.33 drivers before you install later drivers. Launch a 3D game and make sure eye order is correct (do not use nvidia test tool, actually launch a 3D real game in CB). Next, install late drivers (275.xx) make sure you do not uninstall CD1.33 , just install 275.xx over the 1.33 drivers using 'express' mode. Eye order will be the same as it was in CD1.33.
Me too. I had to do the test using iZ3D drivers since there is no SBS from nvidia. I found no difference at all between CB and SBS.[/quote]

Roller, thanks for the tip, but I think it’s much easier and simple to just apply picture correction twice. I hate installing and uninstalling drivers. I only do that once a new driver is launched.
Reinstalling new drivers is a hassle and always causes instability in my PC. I appreciate your fix for this swapped sides issue though.
[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']

Yes, samsung glasses must be used. 'HW' stands for hardware. The signal going to the nvidia emitter can cause a loss of sync because it generates a bogus sync signal. Fix is to block the emitter with cloth, or unplug the signal from the nvidia emitter. In frame seqential, there is no need for this signal so you can unplug it. It's needed only for checkerboard.





So I can just disconnect the USB cable from 3Dvision IR receiver when using FS 1080p30hz?

So this frame sequential 3D mode 1080p30hz is the same one 3Dvision uses for 120hz display? Therefore it works much better in a 120hz LCD display cause than we’ll have 1080p60hz per eye, so it’s 60fps instead of 30hz. It’s a pity that 3D Ready TV’s are all 60hz and not 120hz, otherwise 3dvision (FS) would work perfectly for Samsung 3D ready TV’s using your modfix.



[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']

Yes, absolutely, 100% sure. Restoring your computer this way will undo everything you did with rollermod, make it just like before rollermod. I do it many times.

I meant that both 3DTV Play and 3D vision cannot be installed at the same time, so you can't access FP and CB at the same time for a 3D game on your Samsung HDTV. How are you using FP for your SAmsung and 3D Vision for your Alienware monitor? This implies 3DTV Play and 3D Vision co-exist. Do you have them on seperate partitions?

Which did you prefer? Will you use video mode for your desktop from now on?





Ok, I’ll definatelly create a restore point before applying your mod fix. BTW, how’s the installation procedure for your rollermod? I can’t find that thread about CB you’ve created a few months ago.

It’s very simple how I have 3Dvision and frame packing installed, no need for separate partitions. I guess as you don’t own a 120hz LCD display you don’t understand this.

I have my PC, Samsung TV and Onkyo receiver all connected together. If I set my Samsung TV as primary display for my desktop and then open Nvidia Control Panel I’ll see 3DTV Play logo and I’ll be able to choose between 1080p24hz or 720p60hz FP for 3D Games. Now If I set my Alienware 23” 120hz display as primary display and open Nvidia control panel I’ll see the 3Dvision logo instead of 3DTV Play and my desktop will be at 120hz instead of 60hz. I’ll be able to play games in my Alienware monitor at any resolution I want in 120hz, 1080p, 1050p, 1440p among many others and all in 120hz frame sequential = 60fps per eye. So, yes I have both 3D Vision and 3DTV Play installed, I just need to decide if I’ll use my Samsung TV (3DTV Play + Samsung glasses) or my Alienware 120hz display (3D Vision Kit +3D vision glasses).





[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']

I don't understand 'AR receiver', is that an input label? I don't see it on my list of input labels.

I believe you are doing the experiment correctly. But we see the same thing and come to opposite conclusions. The PC mode 'opaque' look you dislike I very much like. Yes, the colors in Video mode are much more saturated, but for me this is a bad thing, it looks unnatural and 'cartoonish'. Also seems much less detailed vs PC mode. I try this in at least 12 different games, always I like PC mode by far, no question. Only possible exception is Call of Duty, not Black ops, the CoD just before black ops. In that game, there was very little difference between PC and Video modes.

This tells me that you and I have very different taste in graphics. So my question is, which did you prefer overall? If Video mode and PC mode had same frame rate, same performance, same resolution, would you choose Video or PC mode for 3D gaming?





LOL, you don’t understand AR Receiver cause it’s in Portuguese language instead of English. Samsung lets you choose many languages for its menu options. Yours is in English that’s why you don’t understand this input label. It’s a label if you’re using a receiver, just that.

Yes, I agree that graphics look much more detailed in PC mode. Do you also notice those annoying edges in video mode, like the game needs more AA? PC mode corrects this issue and I like that very much. Yes, I had a bad impression about the colors in PC mode, maybe it’s because I got used to video mode watching movies and playing a few games in 3D in video mode as FP only works in video mode.

You agree that for movies, TV broadcast and bluray, bluray3D we need video mode right, PC mode definitely lacks in this area, agree? It’s only for PC gaming and desktop ends.

I need to do a lot more testing to answer your question. I can’t say now which pixel processing mode I prefer. I’ve only tested Crysis 2 in 3D and Just Cause 2 in 2D just for a few minutes, not going to rush my conclusions. PC mode has a lot advantages, I just need to do further more testing and try out your rollermod, so I can see if I get used to PC mode colors that I had the impression that are opaque compared to video mode.



[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']

To me, this is not a problem, so no fix is necessary, so I made no comment. If you prefer the more oversaturated look, try increasing the color in the nvidia CP. I haven't tried it, don't know if those controls affect games. I tried the samsung menu but 'color' was greyed out in games.

I'm very confused about something.....

You have been very strong in asking Nvidia for CB mode. But now you say that CB " suffers from ugly and opaque color saturation" It would seem that you would not like CB since that is automatically PC mode, not Video, so I'm very confused about that. When you were asking for CB, had you ever 3D gamed in CB? Please explain this contradiction.





Yes, I’ve tried Tridef checkerboard a few months ago, I’ve told you so already. This was before 3DTV Play, cause it wasn’t available yet. And I was pissed cause the performance was miserable, I didn’t know I had to unckeck the stereoscopic 3D option in the Nvidia control panel. I’ve tried GTA IV, Mafia 2 and other games. Some looked fine and some didn’t. But I did like frame packing a lot more cause It was full resolution per eye, but I agree that 24hz is not suitable at all for gaming. I haven’t tried Nvidia checkerboard yet. It may not look the same as Tridef CB, what do you think?

I still think that Nvidia should give us SBS instead of CB, cause everyone that has a 3DTV would benefit from that. Considering that new Samsung 2011 models don’t support CB anymore, only SBS. Also, with SBS being identical to CB, we also can play SBS in PC mode and Video mode, unlike CB. So, SBS is the way to go and Nvidia should aim it’s efforts I think.



[quote name='roller11' timestamp='1305781039' date='19 May 2011 - 05:57 AM']

There is a fix for this eye order problem. Install CD1.33 drivers before you install later drivers. Launch a 3D game and make sure eye order is correct (do not use nvidia test tool, actually launch a 3D real game in CB). Next, install late drivers (275.xx) make sure you do not uninstall CD1.33 , just install 275.xx over the 1.33 drivers using 'express' mode. Eye order will be the same as it was in CD1.33.

Me too. I had to do the test using iZ3D drivers since there is no SBS from nvidia. I found no difference at all between CB and SBS.



Roller, thanks for the tip, but I think it’s much easier and simple to just apply picture correction twice. I hate installing and uninstalling drivers. I only do that once a new driver is launched.

Reinstalling new drivers is a hassle and always causes instability in my PC. I appreciate your fix for this swapped sides issue though.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD

#55
Posted 05/19/2011 02:11 PM   
[quote name='francomg' date='19 May 2011 - 08:11 AM' timestamp='1305814308' post='1239573']
So I can just disconnect the USB cable from 3Dvision IR receiver when using FS 1080p30hz?[/quote]
No. The signal refered to is the other signal, the sync signal going into the round hole on the nvidia emitter. In the case of HDMI1.4 TVs like the Samsung, this signal will be generated by an external hardware source who's only purpose is for red overlay message suppression. This is necessary only for CB mode, not FS. So in FS mode, this signal can be disconnected.

[quote]So this frame sequential 3D mode 1080p30hz is the same one 3Dvision uses for 120hz display?[/quote]
I don't know for certain, but my guess is that FS is used for computer monitors. Frame packing is an encoded protocol that is specific for HDTVs so I assume it would have no place in computer monitors.
[quote]It’s a pity that 3D Ready TV’s are all 60hz and not 120hz, otherwise 3dvision (FS) would work perfectly for Samsung 3D ready TV’s using your modfix.

[/quote]
The 30 Hz restriction is due to the insufficient bandwidth of HDMI1.4, not the refresh rate of the display device. Going to 120 Hz wouldn't help at all.

[quote] how’s the installation procedure for your rollermod?[/quote]
device manager > monitors > generic PnP > update software > browse my computer > Let me pick > Have disc ....then browse to location of rollermod.inf.
Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself. When finished, you must reboot.
When going from rollermod to restore_14.inf, same procedure except reboot is not required, only a "Log off" from the start button. Note that after restore to HDMI1.4, the device manager will continue to indicate "EDID override" but you will actually be in 3DTV Play as shown in the CP.

[quote] So, yes I have both 3D Vision and 3DTV Play installed, I just need to decide if I’ll use my Samsung TV (3DTV Play + Samsung
glasses) or my Alienware 120hz display (3D Vision Kit +3D vision glasses).[/quote]
Ok, that's what I thought. You have 3D Vision, but only your monitor, not for your Samsung. So it's impossible to have 3DTV Play/HDMI1.4 Samsung and 3D
Vision/HDMI1.4 Samsung at the same time unless you have two seperate Samsung HDTVs connected to your computer.

[quote]Yes, I agree that graphics look much more detailed in PC mode. Do you also notice those annoying edges in video mode,[/quote]
Yes, Video mode looks very bad, this is why CB/PC mode is desireable in addition to allowing higher native resolution.
[quote]You agree that for movies, TV broadcast and bluray, bluray3D we need video mode right, PC mode definitely lacks in this area, agree? It’s only for PC gaming and desktop ends.[/quote]
Generally I agree, but TV broadcast has no choice, Video mode is automatic. Blu Ray can be either PC or Video mode, I see almost no difference. Video mode does not degrade BR3D as it degrades games and desktop. This is why all HDTV makers provide two different modes, one optimized for PC games/desktop, one optimized for Video such as BR3D and broadcast. More detailed graphics in games is the result.
A simple test for those who want to see the difference is to examine text in 2D desktop. In PC mode, text is sharp and crisp like a computer monitor.

In Video mode, text looks like it has weak or missing pixels. And there is a sort of 'halo' around the cursor. The area immediately around the text is white, but away from the text white space looks slightly grey. It's as though there are two white levels, white and dark white. These are the 'edges' you refer to and they are in games as well.
[quote]I haven’t tried Nvidia checkerboard yet. It may not look the same as Tridef CB, what do you think?[/quote]
The overall look is the same because both are PC mode. I don't like TriDef only in that the gun models in most games are messed up, they look like 2D. Same with iZ3D but for different reasons. Still, I vastly prefer iz3D CB over nvidia FP. I would DEFINITELY game in 2D rather than 3D game in Video mode.[quote]I still think that Nvidia should give us SBS instead of CB, cause everyone that has a 3DTV would benefit from that. Considering that new Samsung 2011 models don’t support CB anymore, only SBS. Also, with SBS being identical to CB, we also can play SBS in PC mode and Video mode, unlike CB. So, SBS is the way to go and Nvidia should aim it’s efforts I think. [/quote]
Totally agree, but it doesn't matter because Nvidia ignores our requests anyway.
I criticized you three months ago for expressing this but now I see you were right all along. We have neither CB or SBS in 3DTV Play so your "instead of" condition doesn't matter, Nvidia will do it their way, not our way....nvidia can't take away CB because it was never given in the first place. A practical worry is what happens when full rez/60 Hz HDMI1.5 is implemented in HDTVs? This could conceiveably mean that Nvidia would support only Frame pack with it's mandatory ugly Video mode. No doubt Nvidia is not even aware of the PC mode vs Video mode issue, so in their mind, no reason to keep CB,SBS, or FS since resolution is their only concern.
[quote]Roller, thanks for the tip, but I think it’s much easier and simple to just apply picture correction twice. I hate installing and uninstalling drivers. I only do that once a new driver is launched.[/quote]
You don't understand, my fix means you *do not* need to install/uninstall drivers. You can update/change drivers all you want, eye order will be permanently fixed, no need to reapply my fix. Do one extra initial install, no uninstall, and you never need do it again unless you reformat your partition.

Fix: You intially install CD1.33, then you immediately install whatever drivers you want without uninstalling CD1.33. After that, eye order is permanently correct. Otherwise, everytime you launch a game you must navigate through the Samsung main menu system (can't use the shortcut key), apply pic correction twice. The correction is not saved, it is reset back to reversed eyes when you exit the game.

Choices are either A or B:
A. Take four minutes to install CD1.33, this is done only one time, eye order permanently correct until reformat your HDD.
...OR...
B. Launch a 3D game, navigate through the samsung menu system from "main" (can't use the shortcut key), apply correction twice, exit menu.
This requires 13 remote clicks. This must be done EVERY TIME game is launched.
[quote name='francomg' date='19 May 2011 - 08:11 AM' timestamp='1305814308' post='1239573']

So I can just disconnect the USB cable from 3Dvision IR receiver when using FS 1080p30hz?

No. The signal refered to is the other signal, the sync signal going into the round hole on the nvidia emitter. In the case of HDMI1.4 TVs like the Samsung, this signal will be generated by an external hardware source who's only purpose is for red overlay message suppression. This is necessary only for CB mode, not FS. So in FS mode, this signal can be disconnected.



So this frame sequential 3D mode 1080p30hz is the same one 3Dvision uses for 120hz display?


I don't know for certain, but my guess is that FS is used for computer monitors. Frame packing is an encoded protocol that is specific for HDTVs so I assume it would have no place in computer monitors.

It’s a pity that 3D Ready TV’s are all 60hz and not 120hz, otherwise 3dvision (FS) would work perfectly for Samsung 3D ready TV’s using your modfix.





The 30 Hz restriction is due to the insufficient bandwidth of HDMI1.4, not the refresh rate of the display device. Going to 120 Hz wouldn't help at all.



how’s the installation procedure for your rollermod?


device manager > monitors > generic PnP > update software > browse my computer > Let me pick > Have disc ....then browse to location of rollermod.inf.

Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself. When finished, you must reboot.

When going from rollermod to restore_14.inf, same procedure except reboot is not required, only a "Log off" from the start button. Note that after restore to HDMI1.4, the device manager will continue to indicate "EDID override" but you will actually be in 3DTV Play as shown in the CP.



So, yes I have both 3D Vision and 3DTV Play installed, I just need to decide if I’ll use my Samsung TV (3DTV Play + Samsung

glasses) or my Alienware 120hz display (3D Vision Kit +3D vision glasses).


Ok, that's what I thought. You have 3D Vision, but only your monitor, not for your Samsung. So it's impossible to have 3DTV Play/HDMI1.4 Samsung and 3D

Vision/HDMI1.4 Samsung at the same time unless you have two seperate Samsung HDTVs connected to your computer.



Yes, I agree that graphics look much more detailed in PC mode. Do you also notice those annoying edges in video mode,


Yes, Video mode looks very bad, this is why CB/PC mode is desireable in addition to allowing higher native resolution.

You agree that for movies, TV broadcast and bluray, bluray3D we need video mode right, PC mode definitely lacks in this area, agree? It’s only for PC gaming and desktop ends.


Generally I agree, but TV broadcast has no choice, Video mode is automatic. Blu Ray can be either PC or Video mode, I see almost no difference. Video mode does not degrade BR3D as it degrades games and desktop. This is why all HDTV makers provide two different modes, one optimized for PC games/desktop, one optimized for Video such as BR3D and broadcast. More detailed graphics in games is the result.

A simple test for those who want to see the difference is to examine text in 2D desktop. In PC mode, text is sharp and crisp like a computer monitor.



In Video mode, text looks like it has weak or missing pixels. And there is a sort of 'halo' around the cursor. The area immediately around the text is white, but away from the text white space looks slightly grey. It's as though there are two white levels, white and dark white. These are the 'edges' you refer to and they are in games as well.

I haven’t tried Nvidia checkerboard yet. It may not look the same as Tridef CB, what do you think?


The overall look is the same because both are PC mode. I don't like TriDef only in that the gun models in most games are messed up, they look like 2D. Same with iZ3D but for different reasons. Still, I vastly prefer iz3D CB over nvidia FP. I would DEFINITELY game in 2D rather than 3D game in Video mode.
I still think that Nvidia should give us SBS instead of CB, cause everyone that has a 3DTV would benefit from that. Considering that new Samsung 2011 models don’t support CB anymore, only SBS. Also, with SBS being identical to CB, we also can play SBS in PC mode and Video mode, unlike CB. So, SBS is the way to go and Nvidia should aim it’s efforts I think.


Totally agree, but it doesn't matter because Nvidia ignores our requests anyway.

I criticized you three months ago for expressing this but now I see you were right all along. We have neither CB or SBS in 3DTV Play so your "instead of" condition doesn't matter, Nvidia will do it their way, not our way....nvidia can't take away CB because it was never given in the first place. A practical worry is what happens when full rez/60 Hz HDMI1.5 is implemented in HDTVs? This could conceiveably mean that Nvidia would support only Frame pack with it's mandatory ugly Video mode. No doubt Nvidia is not even aware of the PC mode vs Video mode issue, so in their mind, no reason to keep CB,SBS, or FS since resolution is their only concern.

Roller, thanks for the tip, but I think it’s much easier and simple to just apply picture correction twice. I hate installing and uninstalling drivers. I only do that once a new driver is launched.


You don't understand, my fix means you *do not* need to install/uninstall drivers. You can update/change drivers all you want, eye order will be permanently fixed, no need to reapply my fix. Do one extra initial install, no uninstall, and you never need do it again unless you reformat your partition.



Fix: You intially install CD1.33, then you immediately install whatever drivers you want without uninstalling CD1.33. After that, eye order is permanently correct. Otherwise, everytime you launch a game you must navigate through the Samsung main menu system (can't use the shortcut key), apply pic correction twice. The correction is not saved, it is reset back to reversed eyes when you exit the game.



Choices are either A or B:

A. Take four minutes to install CD1.33, this is done only one time, eye order permanently correct until reformat your HDD.

...OR...

B. Launch a 3D game, navigate through the samsung menu system from "main" (can't use the shortcut key), apply correction twice, exit menu.

This requires 13 remote clicks. This must be done EVERY TIME game is launched.

#56
Posted 05/19/2011 11:39 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']
No. The signal refered to is the other signal, the sync signal going into the round hole on the nvidia emitter. In the case of HDMI1.4 TVs like the Samsung, this signal will be generated by an external hardware source who's only purpose is for red overlay message suppression. This is necessary only for CB mode, not FS. So in FS mode, this signal can be disconnected.
[/quote]
Roller, I’m really confused here. I don’t understand what you mean by the other signal, the sync signal going to the round hole on the Nvidia emitter? I only have a mini USB cable connected to my Nvidia IR emitter, no other cable. I don’t use the VESA cable cause that’s for DLP and 2008 3D Samsung Plasmas that have a 3D sync out input, not the new HDMI 1.4 3D Ready TVs. So, the only cable I can connect or disconnect from the Nvidia emitter is the USB cable that is connected to my PC USB port. I know I need your HW external device for suppressing the CB red message. But I mean, I want to try out Frame Sequential 1080p30hz instead. Can I disconnect the Nvidia emitter USB cable or not to avoid sync issues? Or it’s best to just cover the Nvidia IR emitter with a cloth and stuff like that?
[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']
I don't know for certain, but my guess is that FS is used for computer monitors. Frame packing is an encoded protocol that is specific for HDTVs so I assume it would have no place in computer monitors.
The 30 Hz restriction is due to the insufficient bandwidth of HDMI1.4, not the refresh rate of the display device. Going to 120 Hz wouldn't help at all.
device manager > monitors > generic PnP > update software > browse my computer > Let me pick > Have disc ....then browse to location of rollermod.inf.
Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself. When finished, you must reboot.
When going from rollermod to restore_14.inf, same procedure except reboot is not required, only a "Log off" from the start button. Note that after restore to HDMI1.4, the device manager will continue to indicate "EDID override" but you will actually be in 3DTV Play as shown in the CP.
[/quote]
You’re right I forgot about the HDMI 1.4 bandwidth limitations.
Most 3D Ready TVs work at 60hz refresh rate, but it’s image processor runs at 240/480hz LED and 600hz Plasma. Refresh rate is not the issue for 3D TVs, it’s for LCD monitors that are only 60hz and do need 120hz refresh rate for 3D to work correctly.
Thanks for the installation explanation. Will give it a try for sure and let you know my results.
What do you mean by Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself??? Does it matter where I save rollermod fix, I mean folder where I keep the file? Didn’t get this part, sorry…
[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']
Ok, that's what I thought. You have 3D Vision, but only your monitor, not for your Samsung. So it's impossible to have 3DTV Play/HDMI1.4 Samsung and 3D
Vision/HDMI1.4 Samsung at the same time unless you have two seperate Samsung HDTVs connected to your computer.
Yes, Video mode looks very bad, this is why CB/PC mode is desireable in addition to allowing higher native resolution.
Generally I agree, but TV broadcast has no choice, Video mode is automatic. Blu Ray can be either PC or Video mode, I see almost no difference. Video mode does not degrade BR3D as it degrades games and desktop. This is why all HDTV makers provide two different modes, one optimized for PC games/desktop, one optimized for Video such as BR3D and broadcast. More detailed graphics in games is the result.
A simple test for those who want to see the difference is to examine text in 2D desktop. In PC mode, text is sharp and crisp like a computer monitor.
In Video mode, text looks like it has weak or missing pixels. And there is a sort of 'halo' around the cursor. The area immediately around the text is white, but away from the text white space looks slightly grey. It's as though there are two white levels, white and dark white. These are the 'edges' you refer to and they are in games as well.
The overall look is the same because both are PC mode. I don't like TriDef only in that the gun models in most games are messed up, they look like 2D. Same with iZ3D but for different reasons. Still, I vastly prefer iz3D CB over nvidia FP. I would DEFINITELY game in 2D rather than 3D game in Video mode.
[/quote]
I agree with almost everything you’ve pointed out, but I disagree about preferring to play in 2D instead of 3D in video mode. For me there’s no going back to 2D gaming. I haven’t played games in 2D since September 2009. Hopefully I own a 120hz display, so 90% of times I’m playing with 3Dvision at 1080p 120hz frame sequential, PC mode, and nothing beasts that quality for 3D gaming. TV’s are bigger and have better displays for sure, but considering all those HDMI 1.4 limitations, I’m happy I have my 23” 120hz LCD display in hand.
[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']

Totally agree, but it doesn't matter because Nvidia ignores our requests anyway.
I criticized you three months ago for expressing this but now I see you were right all along. We have neither CB or SBS in 3DTV Play so your "instead of" condition doesn't matter, Nvidia will do it their way, not our way....nvidia can't take away CB because it was never given in the first place. A practical worry is what happens when full rez/60 Hz HDMI1.5 is implemented in HDTVs? This could conceiveably mean that Nvidia would support only Frame pack with it's mandatory ugly Video mode. No doubt Nvidia is not even aware of the PC mode vs Video mode issue, so in their mind, no reason to keep CB,SBS, or FS since resolution is their only concern.

You don't understand, my fix means you *do not* need to install/uninstall drivers. You can update/change drivers all you want, eye order will be permanently fixed, no need to reapply my fix. Do one extra initial install, no uninstall, and you never need do it again unless you reformat your partition.

Fix: You intially install CD1.33, then you immediately install whatever drivers you want without uninstalling CD1.33. After that, eye order is permanently correct. Otherwise, everytime you launch a game you must navigate through the Samsung main menu system (can't use the shortcut key), apply pic correction twice. The correction is not saved, it is reset back to reversed eyes when you exit the game.

Choices are either A or B:
A. Take four minutes to install CD1.33, this is done only one time, eye order permanently correct until reformat your HDD.
...OR...
B. Launch a 3D game, navigate through the samsung menu system from "main" (can't use the shortcut key), apply correction twice, exit menu.
This requires 13 remote clicks. This must be done EVERY TIME game is launched.
[/quote]
I see, I’ll give a try, but using picture correction once in a while doesn’t really bother me.
Would be awesome if Nvidia added SBS for 3D gaming and also FP at the same time, just letting us choose whatever is best. I can’t imagine that’s such a hard effort to make that needs so much time to be accomplished and off course, needs to be schedule to 2012, 2013, who knows????
Our hope is for more games offer what Crysis 2 and Avatar has, which is a built in 3D that offers all solutions and everyone is happy. BTW, Crysis 2 is a bad example, cause Crytek only gave us its fake 3D implementation. They didn’t allow 3D through the Nvidia drivers, so it’s just a fake 3D with no hit performance. I prefer real 3D with hit performance and great quality.
[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']

No. The signal refered to is the other signal, the sync signal going into the round hole on the nvidia emitter. In the case of HDMI1.4 TVs like the Samsung, this signal will be generated by an external hardware source who's only purpose is for red overlay message suppression. This is necessary only for CB mode, not FS. So in FS mode, this signal can be disconnected.



Roller, I’m really confused here. I don’t understand what you mean by the other signal, the sync signal going to the round hole on the Nvidia emitter? I only have a mini USB cable connected to my Nvidia IR emitter, no other cable. I don’t use the VESA cable cause that’s for DLP and 2008 3D Samsung Plasmas that have a 3D sync out input, not the new HDMI 1.4 3D Ready TVs. So, the only cable I can connect or disconnect from the Nvidia emitter is the USB cable that is connected to my PC USB port. I know I need your HW external device for suppressing the CB red message. But I mean, I want to try out Frame Sequential 1080p30hz instead. Can I disconnect the Nvidia emitter USB cable or not to avoid sync issues? Or it’s best to just cover the Nvidia IR emitter with a cloth and stuff like that?

[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']

I don't know for certain, but my guess is that FS is used for computer monitors. Frame packing is an encoded protocol that is specific for HDTVs so I assume it would have no place in computer monitors.

The 30 Hz restriction is due to the insufficient bandwidth of HDMI1.4, not the refresh rate of the display device. Going to 120 Hz wouldn't help at all.

device manager > monitors > generic PnP > update software > browse my computer > Let me pick > Have disc ....then browse to location of rollermod.inf.

Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself. When finished, you must reboot.

When going from rollermod to restore_14.inf, same procedure except reboot is not required, only a "Log off" from the start button. Note that after restore to HDMI1.4, the device manager will continue to indicate "EDID override" but you will actually be in 3DTV Play as shown in the CP.



You’re right I forgot about the HDMI 1.4 bandwidth limitations.

Most 3D Ready TVs work at 60hz refresh rate, but it’s image processor runs at 240/480hz LED and 600hz Plasma. Refresh rate is not the issue for 3D TVs, it’s for LCD monitors that are only 60hz and do need 120hz refresh rate for 3D to work correctly.

Thanks for the installation explanation. Will give it a try for sure and let you know my results.

What do you mean by Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself??? Does it matter where I save rollermod fix, I mean folder where I keep the file? Didn’t get this part, sorry…

[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']

Ok, that's what I thought. You have 3D Vision, but only your monitor, not for your Samsung. So it's impossible to have 3DTV Play/HDMI1.4 Samsung and 3D

Vision/HDMI1.4 Samsung at the same time unless you have two seperate Samsung HDTVs connected to your computer.

Yes, Video mode looks very bad, this is why CB/PC mode is desireable in addition to allowing higher native resolution.

Generally I agree, but TV broadcast has no choice, Video mode is automatic. Blu Ray can be either PC or Video mode, I see almost no difference. Video mode does not degrade BR3D as it degrades games and desktop. This is why all HDTV makers provide two different modes, one optimized for PC games/desktop, one optimized for Video such as BR3D and broadcast. More detailed graphics in games is the result.

A simple test for those who want to see the difference is to examine text in 2D desktop. In PC mode, text is sharp and crisp like a computer monitor.

In Video mode, text looks like it has weak or missing pixels. And there is a sort of 'halo' around the cursor. The area immediately around the text is white, but away from the text white space looks slightly grey. It's as though there are two white levels, white and dark white. These are the 'edges' you refer to and they are in games as well.

The overall look is the same because both are PC mode. I don't like TriDef only in that the gun models in most games are messed up, they look like 2D. Same with iZ3D but for different reasons. Still, I vastly prefer iz3D CB over nvidia FP. I would DEFINITELY game in 2D rather than 3D game in Video mode.



I agree with almost everything you’ve pointed out, but I disagree about preferring to play in 2D instead of 3D in video mode. For me there’s no going back to 2D gaming. I haven’t played games in 2D since September 2009. Hopefully I own a 120hz display, so 90% of times I’m playing with 3Dvision at 1080p 120hz frame sequential, PC mode, and nothing beasts that quality for 3D gaming. TV’s are bigger and have better displays for sure, but considering all those HDMI 1.4 limitations, I’m happy I have my 23” 120hz LCD display in hand.

[quote name='roller11' date='20 May 2011 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1305848387' post='1239829']



Totally agree, but it doesn't matter because Nvidia ignores our requests anyway.

I criticized you three months ago for expressing this but now I see you were right all along. We have neither CB or SBS in 3DTV Play so your "instead of" condition doesn't matter, Nvidia will do it their way, not our way....nvidia can't take away CB because it was never given in the first place. A practical worry is what happens when full rez/60 Hz HDMI1.5 is implemented in HDTVs? This could conceiveably mean that Nvidia would support only Frame pack with it's mandatory ugly Video mode. No doubt Nvidia is not even aware of the PC mode vs Video mode issue, so in their mind, no reason to keep CB,SBS, or FS since resolution is their only concern.



You don't understand, my fix means you *do not* need to install/uninstall drivers. You can update/change drivers all you want, eye order will be permanently fixed, no need to reapply my fix. Do one extra initial install, no uninstall, and you never need do it again unless you reformat your partition.



Fix: You intially install CD1.33, then you immediately install whatever drivers you want without uninstalling CD1.33. After that, eye order is permanently correct. Otherwise, everytime you launch a game you must navigate through the Samsung main menu system (can't use the shortcut key), apply pic correction twice. The correction is not saved, it is reset back to reversed eyes when you exit the game.



Choices are either A or B:

A. Take four minutes to install CD1.33, this is done only one time, eye order permanently correct until reformat your HDD.

...OR...

B. Launch a 3D game, navigate through the samsung menu system from "main" (can't use the shortcut key), apply correction twice, exit menu.

This requires 13 remote clicks. This must be done EVERY TIME game is launched.



I see, I’ll give a try, but using picture correction once in a while doesn’t really bother me.

Would be awesome if Nvidia added SBS for 3D gaming and also FP at the same time, just letting us choose whatever is best. I can’t imagine that’s such a hard effort to make that needs so much time to be accomplished and off course, needs to be schedule to 2012, 2013, who knows????

Our hope is for more games offer what Crysis 2 and Avatar has, which is a built in 3D that offers all solutions and everyone is happy. BTW, Crysis 2 is a bad example, cause Crytek only gave us its fake 3D implementation. They didn’t allow 3D through the Nvidia drivers, so it’s just a fake 3D with no hit performance. I prefer real 3D with hit performance and great quality.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD

#57
Posted 05/20/2011 08:03 PM   
[quote name='francomg' date='20 May 2011 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1305921829' post='1240200']
Roller, I’m really confused here. I don’t understand what you mean by the other signal, the sync signal going to the round hole on the Nvidia emitter? I only have a mini USB cable connected to my Nvidia IR emitter, no other cable. I don’t use the VESA cable cause that’s for DLP and 2008 3D Samsung Plasmas that have a 3D sync out input, not the new HDMI 1.4 3D Ready TVs. So, the only cable I can connect or disconnect from the Nvidia emitter is the USB cable that is connected to my PC USB port. I know I need your HW external device for suppressing the CB red message. But I mean, I want to try out Frame Sequential 1080p30hz instead. Can I disconnect the Nvidia emitter USB cable or not to avoid sync issues? Or it’s best to just cover the Nvidia IR emitter with a cloth and stuff like that? [/quote]
My comments have been regarding my custom built signal generator, the "other signal" who's only purpose is to suppress the red message which occurs only in CB mode. The signal generator is not necessary in FS. If the signal generator is plugged into the nvidia emitter, the nvidia emitter will transmit unwanted IR sync signals. If gaming in FS mode, one can either unplug the generator from the nvidia emitter, or, throw a cover over the emitter to block these unwanted IR signals from reaching the Samsung glasses.
The mini USB cable must always be plugged in. If it isn't, the game will be switched instantly to 2D.

[quote]What do you mean by Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself??? Does it matter where I save rollermod fix, I mean folder where I keep the file? Didn’t get this part, sorry…[/quote]
Sorry I did not explain. If you navigate to a folder that has more than one .inf file, then it is unpredictable which .inf will be installed. It is therefore best to have rollermod in a folder that has no other .inf files in it. This folder can be anywhere. It need not be in a folder at all, but where ever it is, there must be no other .inf other than rollermod. Same is true for restore_14.inf.

[quote]Would be awesome if Nvidia added SBS for 3D gaming and also FP at the same time, just letting us choose whatever is best. I can’t imagine that’s such a hard effort to make that needs so much time to be accomplished and off course, needs to be schedule to 2012, 2013, who knows????[/quote]
From a users viewpoint, the problem is not lack of CB, it is lack of a release time frame. If Nvidia would give us a time frame, then each person can make his own decision as to whether to
A. buy the 3D Vision kit + hardware suppressor for around $200 total and have CB immediately
or
B. wait for CB 3DTV Play and spend only $40.
Let's be clear...these two choices yield the same end result, having the ability to choose either framepacking or CB/FS modes for 3D gaming, BluRay 3D, vidoes, etc. The only advantage of waiting is to save some money, but meanwhile, you are stuck with framepacking.

I believe most people think no sooner than 2012 since Andrew is saying nothing to the contrary. My personal prediction is that when Nvidia programmers are finished with everything else, nothing left to do but modify the Set up wizard, then we will have CB in 3DTV Play.
[quote] BTW, Crysis 2 is a bad example, cause Crytek only gave us its fake 3D implementation. They didn’t allow 3D through the Nvidia drivers, so it’s just a fake 3D with no hit performance. I prefer real 3D with hit performance and great quality.[/quote]
My evaluations are based on the free demo, Crytek ruined Crysis 2 when they removed qiucksave, thereby forcing the gamer to lose hard earned progress again, and again, and again. I don't watch re-runs on TV, and I don't play games that force me to spend 95% of my time recovering lost progress, all for no reason. I chose not to buy the game when I learned Crytek went out of their way to delete quicksave, a feature that was already in Crysis.
[quote name='francomg' date='20 May 2011 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1305921829' post='1240200']

Roller, I’m really confused here. I don’t understand what you mean by the other signal, the sync signal going to the round hole on the Nvidia emitter? I only have a mini USB cable connected to my Nvidia IR emitter, no other cable. I don’t use the VESA cable cause that’s for DLP and 2008 3D Samsung Plasmas that have a 3D sync out input, not the new HDMI 1.4 3D Ready TVs. So, the only cable I can connect or disconnect from the Nvidia emitter is the USB cable that is connected to my PC USB port. I know I need your HW external device for suppressing the CB red message. But I mean, I want to try out Frame Sequential 1080p30hz instead. Can I disconnect the Nvidia emitter USB cable or not to avoid sync issues? Or it’s best to just cover the Nvidia IR emitter with a cloth and stuff like that?

My comments have been regarding my custom built signal generator, the "other signal" who's only purpose is to suppress the red message which occurs only in CB mode. The signal generator is not necessary in FS. If the signal generator is plugged into the nvidia emitter, the nvidia emitter will transmit unwanted IR sync signals. If gaming in FS mode, one can either unplug the generator from the nvidia emitter, or, throw a cover over the emitter to block these unwanted IR signals from reaching the Samsung glasses.

The mini USB cable must always be plugged in. If it isn't, the game will be switched instantly to 2D.



What do you mean by Be sure rollermod is in a folder by itself??? Does it matter where I save rollermod fix, I mean folder where I keep the file? Didn’t get this part, sorry…


Sorry I did not explain. If you navigate to a folder that has more than one .inf file, then it is unpredictable which .inf will be installed. It is therefore best to have rollermod in a folder that has no other .inf files in it. This folder can be anywhere. It need not be in a folder at all, but where ever it is, there must be no other .inf other than rollermod. Same is true for restore_14.inf.



Would be awesome if Nvidia added SBS for 3D gaming and also FP at the same time, just letting us choose whatever is best. I can’t imagine that’s such a hard effort to make that needs so much time to be accomplished and off course, needs to be schedule to 2012, 2013, who knows????


From a users viewpoint, the problem is not lack of CB, it is lack of a release time frame. If Nvidia would give us a time frame, then each person can make his own decision as to whether to

A. buy the 3D Vision kit + hardware suppressor for around $200 total and have CB immediately

or

B. wait for CB 3DTV Play and spend only $40.

Let's be clear...these two choices yield the same end result, having the ability to choose either framepacking or CB/FS modes for 3D gaming, BluRay 3D, vidoes, etc. The only advantage of waiting is to save some money, but meanwhile, you are stuck with framepacking.



I believe most people think no sooner than 2012 since Andrew is saying nothing to the contrary. My personal prediction is that when Nvidia programmers are finished with everything else, nothing left to do but modify the Set up wizard, then we will have CB in 3DTV Play.

BTW, Crysis 2 is a bad example, cause Crytek only gave us its fake 3D implementation. They didn’t allow 3D through the Nvidia drivers, so it’s just a fake 3D with no hit performance. I prefer real 3D with hit performance and great quality.


My evaluations are based on the free demo, Crytek ruined Crysis 2 when they removed qiucksave, thereby forcing the gamer to lose hard earned progress again, and again, and again. I don't watch re-runs on TV, and I don't play games that force me to spend 95% of my time recovering lost progress, all for no reason. I chose not to buy the game when I learned Crytek went out of their way to delete quicksave, a feature that was already in Crysis.

#58
Posted 05/20/2011 11:34 PM   
  4 / 4    
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