4K Ultra HD (3840x2160) stereoscopic 3D gaming (videos)
5 / 6
Hello,
I am the so called friend of HDGametest and the man with the CRT projectors in the team. I had an account here under noos@xp37+, but I was not able to recativate it. My post about the hardware in AVS was done when the thread was for 4k 2d only. As you can see, 3d is added later later in a post, and than added (edited) in the first 2d post.
We are many in the channel, like hardware geeks, gamers, prof. technicians - so you can expect success in many fields to be uploaded. Or just entertaining stuff like from out "beat em up" fanatic....
Someone made fun out of my CRTs? Well, the model on the top of the wooden rack is a Marquee 9500 Ultra. This one was on the market until two years ago for more than 40000 dollar by VDC - but only military and space programs were able to affort them and their blacks on the screen. My one (9500 Ultra) is only the second best as I say in the video as it is rated to do resolutions up to 2500x2000 (with special high resolution tubes)or in older pdfs at a minimum of 2048x1536 at stereo refresh rates. Not bad, but we use them because of their real life picture that prfessional simulators or high end games and home cinema people want. If you want to test one, you can buy one in the US/Canada, so go here for 7500 dollar fo a used one: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTforSale_HighPerformance.shtm If you want one in Europe, I can give you some names. I can not tell you about the other projectos in the rack, as time is rare and they are super rare with own hisory. The best CRT is/was still the Barco Reality 909 that can go, as I suggest in the video, up to 3200x2560. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/BarcoReality909_Brochure.pdf
With two of mine or a 909 in a blend you can, and it is done, do and resolve 4k as I show with the blend resolutions at the end of the videos. But I will not start a CRT dialog here, because there is only a few peaple left that did go to the maximum or have seen it.
About the screenshots. Thanks for your question. The upload are downscaled at the AVS forum. If you want to see them in true qualtiy, visit: http://www.wsgf.org/dr/crysis-3/en or Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2.
We will update the master games list as often as possible.
The FOV inceases in some games, and in some games it does not. You can test is for yourself when changing resolutions in a game on your normal desktop. But normaly the same scene is shown only with a higher number of pixel (Quake 2 times are over :-). If a game shows more FOV with your experiment, it will show more with 4k. We tried to show that with Diablo 3, but out screenhots are worng, as you should restart the game for every res. change to get it covered in the shots. Diablo 3 shows in fact more FOV!
We will focus on videos now, so sorry for ignoring the general 4k discussion or anything else.
I am the so called friend of HDGametest and the man with the CRT projectors in the team. I had an account here under noos@xp37+, but I was not able to recativate it. My post about the hardware in AVS was done when the thread was for 4k 2d only. As you can see, 3d is added later later in a post, and than added (edited) in the first 2d post.
We are many in the channel, like hardware geeks, gamers, prof. technicians - so you can expect success in many fields to be uploaded. Or just entertaining stuff like from out "beat em up" fanatic....
Someone made fun out of my CRTs? Well, the model on the top of the wooden rack is a Marquee 9500 Ultra. This one was on the market until two years ago for more than 40000 dollar by VDC - but only military and space programs were able to affort them and their blacks on the screen. My one (9500 Ultra) is only the second best as I say in the video as it is rated to do resolutions up to 2500x2000 (with special high resolution tubes)or in older pdfs at a minimum of 2048x1536 at stereo refresh rates. Not bad, but we use them because of their real life picture that prfessional simulators or high end games and home cinema people want. If you want to test one, you can buy one in the US/Canada, so go here for 7500 dollar fo a used one: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTforSale_HighPerformance.shtm If you want one in Europe, I can give you some names. I can not tell you about the other projectos in the rack, as time is rare and they are super rare with own hisory. The best CRT is/was still the Barco Reality 909 that can go, as I suggest in the video, up to 3200x2560. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/BarcoReality909_Brochure.pdf
With two of mine or a 909 in a blend you can, and it is done, do and resolve 4k as I show with the blend resolutions at the end of the videos. But I will not start a CRT dialog here, because there is only a few peaple left that did go to the maximum or have seen it.
About the screenshots. Thanks for your question. The upload are downscaled at the AVS forum. If you want to see them in true qualtiy, visit: http://www.wsgf.org/dr/crysis-3/en or Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2.
We will update the master games list as often as possible.
The FOV inceases in some games, and in some games it does not. You can test is for yourself when changing resolutions in a game on your normal desktop. But normaly the same scene is shown only with a higher number of pixel (Quake 2 times are over :-). If a game shows more FOV with your experiment, it will show more with 4k. We tried to show that with Diablo 3, but out screenhots are worng, as you should restart the game for every res. change to get it covered in the shots. Diablo 3 shows in fact more FOV!
We will focus on videos now, so sorry for ignoring the general 4k discussion or anything else.
Still no facts, just smoke and mirrors....
You're claim of 4K "StereoGamePlay" via a Nvidia GPU over a single HDMI connection is ridicilous.
[quote="noosatxp37plus"]My post about the hardware in AVS was done when the thread was for 4k 2d only. As you can see, 3d is added later later in a post, and than added (edited) in the first 2d post.
We will ignoring the general 4k discussion or anything else.[/quote]
Lol, you're AVS post was about 2D...WTF...
Of course you'll ignore the rebutal and not provide any proof or evidence as requested.
Just about any projector digital or analog will accept a higher input resolution but "IT WILL" display it at "NATIVE" resolution.
Do you know what the term "ACTIVE PIXELS" means?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_hraa.html
"because the graphics processor is rendering more actual pixels than will be displayed, it must scale and filter those pixels down to the resolution for final display. This scaling and filtering can further reduce performance."
Since Geforce 3....How long ago was that?...Nothing new.
So according to your definition of a 4K display, those millions of CRT monitors that people threw away were high end 4K monitors.
You're claim of 4K "StereoGamePlay" via a Nvidia GPU over a single HDMI connection is ridicilous.
noosatxp37plus said:My post about the hardware in AVS was done when the thread was for 4k 2d only. As you can see, 3d is added later later in a post, and than added (edited) in the first 2d post.
We will ignoring the general 4k discussion or anything else.
Lol, you're AVS post was about 2D...WTF...
Of course you'll ignore the rebutal and not provide any proof or evidence as requested.
Just about any projector digital or analog will accept a higher input resolution but "IT WILL" display it at "NATIVE" resolution.
"because the graphics processor is rendering more actual pixels than will be displayed, it must scale and filter those pixels down to the resolution for final display. This scaling and filtering can further reduce performance."
Since Geforce 3....How long ago was that?...Nothing new.
So according to your definition of a 4K display, those millions of CRT monitors that people threw away were high end 4K monitors.
My bad for the CRT monitor comparison. It's wrong due to the fact CRT monitors are restricted to a native resolution whereas CRT Projectors are not.
But, CRT Projectors are still limited by their tubes and light guns as to how well they can resolve and display a resolution. As well as being limited by the inherent constraints imposed by their embeded input connection chips/processors.
So while the Marque 9500 Ultra can resolve a 2500x2000p resolution, it can only do so at certain restrictions and limitations.
While CRT monitors were good for 3D gaming, CRT Projectors are not and tend to ghost.
My bad for the CRT monitor comparison. It's wrong due to the fact CRT monitors are restricted to a native resolution whereas CRT Projectors are not.
But, CRT Projectors are still limited by their tubes and light guns as to how well they can resolve and display a resolution. As well as being limited by the inherent constraints imposed by their embeded input connection chips/processors.
So while the Marque 9500 Ultra can resolve a 2500x2000p resolution, it can only do so at certain restrictions and limitations.
While CRT monitors were good for 3D gaming, CRT Projectors are not and tend to ghost.
[quote="D-Man11"]My bad for the CRT monitor comparison. It's wrong due to the fact CRT monitors are restricted to a native resolution whereas CRT Projectors are not.
But, CRT Projectors are still limited by their tubes and light guns as to how well they can resolve and display a resolution. As well as being limited by the inherent constraints imposed by their embeded input connection chips/processors.
So while the Marque 9500 Ultra can resolve a 2500x2000p resolution, it can only do so at certain restrictions and limitations.
While CRT monitors were good for 3D gaming, CRT Projectors are not and tend to ghost.
[/quote]
Sorry, but now you make it offical. You talk without knowing any facts.
CRT projectors, and all I have linked, are equipped with special P43 phosphor green. None ghosting super fast decay! You should at least read the pdfs I provide or do some googling on P43 - if you know nothing about it. That is also why military and space agencys paid so much for them until recent times - but with bankrupcy these times are over and CRT can not be justified anymore. 3d at CRT projectors is since ten year the best money can buy, an absolutely ghosting fee experiance - but you might need a pro to do it. Also check our official channle video, there you can see for second my collection of 3d glasses. On the right side are professional ones for CRTs that did cost more than a tousand dollar a piece (long ime ago and some recent). I do 3d via Nviida with them and a generated sync from the monitor signal (very basic consumer 3d equipment).
Back to you, even I in the profesional sector do not know of more than one p43 none ghosting monitior - pro one at the cost of a family car! So you get sth. very very wrong. I did wrote long "how to´s´" to get standart CRT monitors ghosting free - but only for advanced consumers. Most of it is in post 12 by me: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13765
P43 3d is simple and stunning out of the box - all avantages of CRTs + best stereo!
And do not talk about resolutions and CRTs! You have no idea what a Marquee or a Barco or others can display (more than 150khz!!!) But they only resolves to full beauty what is said in the descriptions (2500x2000 or for the Barco 3200x2560), and I would recommend to drive them much lower for best picture.
You should careful look and learn in my video about the "khz" number I display on every sheet - so you see at what a low level of the capabilities of the CRTs we work in the CRT video. But sure, you can not use this on CRT monitors, for several reasons.
I can not teach you these things. I would, if you would be more respectful. Probabaly you now get an imagination what you miss on todays professional "digital" market - if you do not know what was state of the art in the last 15 (!) years of pro equipment. Or, what can be made possible with high end digital consumer stuff and the right portion of knowledge
You are still very welcome to join this project here, and help us providing a better 3d experiance in our videos. But please stop spammning this thread - no person has the time to read it fully now.
D-Man11 said:My bad for the CRT monitor comparison. It's wrong due to the fact CRT monitors are restricted to a native resolution whereas CRT Projectors are not.
But, CRT Projectors are still limited by their tubes and light guns as to how well they can resolve and display a resolution. As well as being limited by the inherent constraints imposed by their embeded input connection chips/processors.
So while the Marque 9500 Ultra can resolve a 2500x2000p resolution, it can only do so at certain restrictions and limitations.
While CRT monitors were good for 3D gaming, CRT Projectors are not and tend to ghost.
Sorry, but now you make it offical. You talk without knowing any facts.
CRT projectors, and all I have linked, are equipped with special P43 phosphor green. None ghosting super fast decay! You should at least read the pdfs I provide or do some googling on P43 - if you know nothing about it. That is also why military and space agencys paid so much for them until recent times - but with bankrupcy these times are over and CRT can not be justified anymore. 3d at CRT projectors is since ten year the best money can buy, an absolutely ghosting fee experiance - but you might need a pro to do it. Also check our official channle video, there you can see for second my collection of 3d glasses. On the right side are professional ones for CRTs that did cost more than a tousand dollar a piece (long ime ago and some recent). I do 3d via Nviida with them and a generated sync from the monitor signal (very basic consumer 3d equipment).
Back to you, even I in the profesional sector do not know of more than one p43 none ghosting monitior - pro one at the cost of a family car! So you get sth. very very wrong. I did wrote long "how to´s´" to get standart CRT monitors ghosting free - but only for advanced consumers. Most of it is in post 12 by me: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13765
P43 3d is simple and stunning out of the box - all avantages of CRTs + best stereo!
And do not talk about resolutions and CRTs! You have no idea what a Marquee or a Barco or others can display (more than 150khz!!!) But they only resolves to full beauty what is said in the descriptions (2500x2000 or for the Barco 3200x2560), and I would recommend to drive them much lower for best picture.
You should careful look and learn in my video about the "khz" number I display on every sheet - so you see at what a low level of the capabilities of the CRTs we work in the CRT video. But sure, you can not use this on CRT monitors, for several reasons.
I can not teach you these things. I would, if you would be more respectful. Probabaly you now get an imagination what you miss on todays professional "digital" market - if you do not know what was state of the art in the last 15 (!) years of pro equipment. Or, what can be made possible with high end digital consumer stuff and the right portion of knowledge
You are still very welcome to join this project here, and help us providing a better 3d experiance in our videos. But please stop spammning this thread - no person has the time to read it fully now.
[quote="rustyk"]Well I don't know exactly what kit the OP has, but I think he's been treated in a harsh way.
... it's a shame that people seem to have jumped at the chance to prove a newcomer wrong.
[/quote]
I don't think it's harsh at all.
D-Man11 has just asked for some facts, which so far have not materialized.
Person X comes along and claims something incredible which to most people seems either unlikely or impossible.
Community ask for facts to back up this claim
If I had said I ran 100m in 8 seconds, would you just believe it or would you ask me to provide some evidence?
rustyk said:Well I don't know exactly what kit the OP has, but I think he's been treated in a harsh way.
... it's a shame that people seem to have jumped at the chance to prove a newcomer wrong.
I don't think it's harsh at all.
D-Man11 has just asked for some facts, which so far have not materialized.
Person X comes along and claims something incredible which to most people seems either unlikely or impossible.
Community ask for facts to back up this claim
If I had said I ran 100m in 8 seconds, would you just believe it or would you ask me to provide some evidence?
Edit: I am only talking to D-Man11, my fault. Rusty was very gentle...
And again, no where is claimed a hdmi connection is used without a capturing videporcessor in between! We need this devices to caputure the insane amount of data. You are confused because we are many people using several single and multi display steups, and also the capturing is done differently. You get an imaginaing by the different 4k resoltions we upload - by many different users and screens. And stop about this toy thing "downsapling" - it was never done past 3840 on the horizontal! We do full hd 4096 and 4085! Do your homework befor you call us downsampler or worse.
Also, the only consumer Scaler and device I know of is the Lumagen Radiance - it can accept 4k 30hz - not more.
If you input 4k to you full hd devices, you will/might blow yout HDMI port and/or get a blackscreen!
All people need to to know about what we are doing, is that 3840x2160 60 hz is in between a digital pixel clock of 499-520, and 4096x2306 60hz is between 580-599. Also possible with your consumer cards.
Save money, look careful around, and buy he right 4k screen.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/522300/304-48-major-bug-pixel-clock-ramdac-nvidia-drops-support-for-120hz-on-displays-above-1080p-/
Edit: I am only talking to D-Man11, my fault. Rusty was very gentle...
And again, no where is claimed a hdmi connection is used without a capturing videporcessor in between! We need this devices to caputure the insane amount of data. You are confused because we are many people using several single and multi display steups, and also the capturing is done differently. You get an imaginaing by the different 4k resoltions we upload - by many different users and screens. And stop about this toy thing "downsapling" - it was never done past 3840 on the horizontal! We do full hd 4096 and 4085! Do your homework befor you call us downsampler or worse.
Also, the only consumer Scaler and device I know of is the Lumagen Radiance - it can accept 4k 30hz - not more.
If you input 4k to you full hd devices, you will/might blow yout HDMI port and/or get a blackscreen!
All people need to to know about what we are doing, is that 3840x2160 60 hz is in between a digital pixel clock of 499-520, and 4096x2306 60hz is between 580-599. Also possible with your consumer cards.
Save money, look careful around, and buy he right 4k screen.
I apologize for jumping straight into the discussion at this point.
Some simple questions:
Does the nvidia Graphics card produce a proper full 4k (3840x2080) image in 3D at a combined framerate near 60hz.
In times where 4k monitors use dual displayport for 60hz performance it shouldn't be trivial.
From what I can read none of the CRT projectors are widescreen enough to do the most common 4k resolution.
Whatever you are doing there must be tradeoffs involved while I'm sure the end result could be pretty damn good anyway. You are describing bad ass crt projectors.
But at the end of the day it is far from the best solution.
Local Cinema, Hobbit, 5k resolution, 48hz, 800" screen.
Big budget 3D solution.
Quick edit: I clearly only read the beginning of thread as I keep Learning new stuff.
I apologize for jumping straight into the discussion at this point.
Some simple questions:
Does the nvidia Graphics card produce a proper full 4k (3840x2080) image in 3D at a combined framerate near 60hz.
In times where 4k monitors use dual displayport for 60hz performance it shouldn't be trivial.
From what I can read none of the CRT projectors are widescreen enough to do the most common 4k resolution.
Whatever you are doing there must be tradeoffs involved while I'm sure the end result could be pretty damn good anyway. You are describing bad ass crt projectors.
But at the end of the day it is far from the best solution.
Local Cinema, Hobbit, 5k resolution, 48hz, 800" screen.
Big budget 3D solution.
Quick edit: I clearly only read the beginning of thread as I keep Learning new stuff.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
[quote="Flugan"]I apologize for jumping straight into the discussion at this point.
Some simple questions:
Does the nvidia Graphics card produce a proper full 4k (3840x2080) image in 3D at a combined framerate near 60hz.
In times where 4k monitors use dual displayport for 60hz performance it shouldn't be trivial.
From what I can read none of the CRT projectors are widescreen enough to do the most common 4k resolution.
Whatever you are doing there must be tradeoffs involved while I'm sure the end result could be pretty damn good anyway. You are describing bad ass crt projectors.
But at the end of the day it is far from the best solution.
Local Cinema, Hobbit, 5k resolution, 48hz, 800" screen.
Big budget 3D solution.[/quote]
Thanks for your questions.
Yes, even Nvidia consumer cards do with. I do it up to 60hz - so thirty per eye. Even at 4096x2306 at 60 hz. If some has the device to test - I am using 320.49 forcware, but all others so far worked too.
You can use CRT projectors in all aspects, as I do with 22/9. You will not use full phosphor then - but in relation the same amount than with a different aspect ratio.
(Screen)size does not matter - just how much field of view is covered :-).
5k 2d is no problem with 2 CRT Projectors - 3d is different. Than it is 24 per eye triplefalshed (triplfash) to 72hz per eye - a stunning total of 144hz at this resolution.
I do not know about 48 frame material when in 3d, could mean only 48 per eye in a total of 96. But I exepct it to be doubleflashed to 96 per eye. Wow...
Flugan said:I apologize for jumping straight into the discussion at this point.
Some simple questions:
Does the nvidia Graphics card produce a proper full 4k (3840x2080) image in 3D at a combined framerate near 60hz.
In times where 4k monitors use dual displayport for 60hz performance it shouldn't be trivial.
From what I can read none of the CRT projectors are widescreen enough to do the most common 4k resolution.
Whatever you are doing there must be tradeoffs involved while I'm sure the end result could be pretty damn good anyway. You are describing bad ass crt projectors.
But at the end of the day it is far from the best solution.
Local Cinema, Hobbit, 5k resolution, 48hz, 800" screen.
Big budget 3D solution.
Thanks for your questions.
Yes, even Nvidia consumer cards do with. I do it up to 60hz - so thirty per eye. Even at 4096x2306 at 60 hz. If some has the device to test - I am using 320.49 forcware, but all others so far worked too.
You can use CRT projectors in all aspects, as I do with 22/9. You will not use full phosphor then - but in relation the same amount than with a different aspect ratio.
(Screen)size does not matter - just how much field of view is covered :-).
5k 2d is no problem with 2 CRT Projectors - 3d is different. Than it is 24 per eye triplefalshed (triplfash) to 72hz per eye - a stunning total of 144hz at this resolution.
I do not know about 48 frame material when in 3d, could mean only 48 per eye in a total of 96. But I exepct it to be doubleflashed to 96 per eye. Wow...
Hobbit as an 48hz 3D Movie places itself inbetween 30hz 3D (60 images/s) and 60hz 3D (120 images/s) the later commonly used by 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users.
Aside from this the only way I can see 3D Vision working at such resolutions is in generic CRT mode which I thought no longer existed in the drivers. My CRT died many years ago so I really don't know much there.
Hobbit as an 48hz 3D Movie places itself inbetween 30hz 3D (60 images/s) and 60hz 3D (120 images/s) the later commonly used by 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users.
Aside from this the only way I can see 3D Vision working at such resolutions is in generic CRT mode which I thought no longer existed in the drivers. My CRT died many years ago so I really don't know much there.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
Your AVS thread titled "We do real "single display" 4k videos"
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481133/we-do-real-single-display-4k-videos
I'll quote it for you
[quote="HDGametest"]Hello,
I was not logged in here for quite some time - but I am back with some entertainment stuff. A friend of mine and me, we both have the opportunity to use professional video equipment like a 4k Sony projectors and broadcast capture devices. With our archive of most PC games from the past 20 years, it did not take long until we started to "4k" our collection. Capturing 4k does not take long, nor is it most of the time complicated to get games running in 4k - but the upload takes time. So we will 24/7 uploading tons of "4k" PC games in the next months! As it will take time get get everything uploaded. please post a wish list of preferred games.
We certainly will focus very soon on the creation of 3D 4k material. Because of the hardware (cable/video standart/bandwidth) 4k in now limited to 30hz (60hz with ATI hack), but will also be limited to regular 60hz for a long future (HDMI 1.5). So we will concentrate on 4k side by side projects.
Like with Crisis Warhead, we will produce 4k videos with and without texture and other graphic mods. We do not use games that show violence, . If a game shows content we do not like, but we want it in 4k, we will choose parts from the game that are ok with us.
We also take screen shots from games running in 4k. And if a game shows more field of view in 4k resolutions, we also do screen shots in 720p and 1080p. As I do not know what file sizes and numbers are allowed in this forum, I will wai for clarification before uploading them."[quote]
A poster asks...
[quote="DaveFi"]What gaming hardware are you running on because frankly I checked out the first Crisis 3 link and it was lagging like crazy. For 4k gaming you really should have at least 3 Titans.[/quote]
You reply
[quote="noos@xp37"]We use a recent Intel quad @4ghz plus a 760gtx and dedicated physx card. With most games this is ok, but Crisis 3 for sure needs more (Crisis Warhead certainly runs better). This project is young, so an uprgrade in hardware will follow soon. In recent setups I did go up to four way sli with older cards. So this is an option for us, but requires also a mainboard change. But SLI and probably three way SLI can be done faster.
But please also consider that Youtube donwgrades to 30fps, so if your upload material is inconsistend in frames but ok to play - Youtube will make it even more laggy as it decides what frames to use. So we have to get very good 60fps material to reach a good 30fps video experiance. Thats what we learnd so far...
Edited by noos@xp37 - 7/11/13 at 11:37am[/quote]
Hmm so where did I get the idea that you were using a GTX card? It's a fact that Nvidia does not support dual output on a GTX card. Pixel clock patched and unlocked or not, HDMI only has 3 TMDS pairs, so you can not push a lot of Bandwith. Don't believe me? Ask George Ohm
I was not logged in here for quite some time - but I am back with some entertainment stuff. A friend of mine and me, we both have the opportunity to use professional video equipment like a 4k Sony projectors and broadcast capture devices. With our archive of most PC games from the past 20 years, it did not take long until we started to "4k" our collection. Capturing 4k does not take long, nor is it most of the time complicated to get games running in 4k - but the upload takes time. So we will 24/7 uploading tons of "4k" PC games in the next months! As it will take time get get everything uploaded. please post a wish list of preferred games.
We certainly will focus very soon on the creation of 3D 4k material. Because of the hardware (cable/video standart/bandwidth) 4k in now limited to 30hz (60hz with ATI hack), but will also be limited to regular 60hz for a long future (HDMI 1.5). So we will concentrate on 4k side by side projects.
Like with Crisis Warhead, we will produce 4k videos with and without texture and other graphic mods. We do not use games that show violence, . If a game shows content we do not like, but we want it in 4k, we will choose parts from the game that are ok with us.
We also take screen shots from games running in 4k. And if a game shows more field of view in 4k resolutions, we also do screen shots in 720p and 1080p. As I do not know what file sizes and numbers are allowed in this forum, I will wai for clarification before uploading them."
A poster asks...
DaveFi said:What gaming hardware are you running on because frankly I checked out the first Crisis 3 link and it was lagging like crazy. For 4k gaming you really should have at least 3 Titans.
You reply
noos@xp37 said:We use a recent Intel quad @4ghz plus a 760gtx and dedicated physx card. With most games this is ok, but Crisis 3 for sure needs more (Crisis Warhead certainly runs better). This project is young, so an uprgrade in hardware will follow soon. In recent setups I did go up to four way sli with older cards. So this is an option for us, but requires also a mainboard change. But SLI and probably three way SLI can be done faster.
But please also consider that Youtube donwgrades to 30fps, so if your upload material is inconsistend in frames but ok to play - Youtube will make it even more laggy as it decides what frames to use. So we have to get very good 60fps material to reach a good 30fps video experiance. Thats what we learnd so far...
Edited by noos@xp37 - 7/11/13 at 11:37am
Hmm so where did I get the idea that you were using a GTX card? It's a fact that Nvidia does not support dual output on a GTX card. Pixel clock patched and unlocked or not, HDMI only has 3 TMDS pairs, so you can not push a lot of Bandwith. Don't believe me? Ask George Ohm
The PQ of CRTs are well known, but they can be a pain to set up and maintain/calibrate/converge/etc.
Do you know what an EDID is and how it works? Last I checked there is not an infinity option in the data block.
So in this other post, you're friend says you are waiting on a new card.
Then at the botom he says you are now capturing 4K in Frame Sequential.
Look, I just keep pointing out that not everything seems to be adding up. To me it seems that you are simply downsampling. It's been done for a long time.
You continually fail to provide details and beat around the bush like a woman.
I do not doubt your past experience and history with CRTs and 3D. I know about Moome cards, I know about short life green tubes. I do not know a lot about CRT PJs, but I do know a little.
[quote="HDGametest"] Hello,
and sorry for not updating this thread. We have been experimenting with PC hardware... The videos so far on youtube are a small result of this. We had to do it, even our capturing hardware works great, but 4k need very good computers for smooth gaming. We had to eliminate f.e. RAM as a source of lags in 4k videos (1600mhz and up is ok). Now we will receive our new hardware at the end of this week, and then start to flood youtube with 4k and 4k stereo videos.
For you VR sepcialists here, I will upload two 4k side by side videos this night, even if they are not perfect smooth until now. But you will be able to see very high details in 4k sbs, as you will receive two 1920x2160 streams in one 3840x2160 video.
I also post these videos here, because I hope to get feedback about the 3d quality. After more than a decade dealing with Nvidia and Nvidia pro cards, I have to get into Tridef and Zalman drivers. The two videos are just standard options in tridef, with the ingame hud removed for better immersion if possible or to eliminate obvious flaws. I hope that we also will be able to provide a good Rift experiance in the future, even if we do not have one by our hand. We use a full field of view covering projection setup, and so are forced to keed fast camera movements at an minimum - which should help Rift user too. But here are feedbacks and recommendations welcome too.
We also can capture frame sequtial in 4k (!) now produced by Nvidia 3d Vision - but we could need recomendations beside "Sony Vegas" for the conversion of 4k frame sequential to side by side.
Best regards
Marc [/quote]
So in this other post, you're friend says you are waiting on a new card.
Then at the botom he says you are now capturing 4K in Frame Sequential.
Look, I just keep pointing out that not everything seems to be adding up. To me it seems that you are simply downsampling. It's been done for a long time.
You continually fail to provide details and beat around the bush like a woman.
I do not doubt your past experience and history with CRTs and 3D. I know about Moome cards, I know about short life green tubes. I do not know a lot about CRT PJs, but I do know a little.
HDGametest said: Hello,
and sorry for not updating this thread. We have been experimenting with PC hardware... The videos so far on youtube are a small result of this. We had to do it, even our capturing hardware works great, but 4k need very good computers for smooth gaming. We had to eliminate f.e. RAM as a source of lags in 4k videos (1600mhz and up is ok). Now we will receive our new hardware at the end of this week, and then start to flood youtube with 4k and 4k stereo videos.
For you VR sepcialists here, I will upload two 4k side by side videos this night, even if they are not perfect smooth until now. But you will be able to see very high details in 4k sbs, as you will receive two 1920x2160 streams in one 3840x2160 video.
I also post these videos here, because I hope to get feedback about the 3d quality. After more than a decade dealing with Nvidia and Nvidia pro cards, I have to get into Tridef and Zalman drivers. The two videos are just standard options in tridef, with the ingame hud removed for better immersion if possible or to eliminate obvious flaws. I hope that we also will be able to provide a good Rift experiance in the future, even if we do not have one by our hand. We use a full field of view covering projection setup, and so are forced to keed fast camera movements at an minimum - which should help Rift user too. But here are feedbacks and recommendations welcome too.
We also can capture frame sequtial in 4k (!) now produced by Nvidia 3d Vision - but we could need recomendations beside "Sony Vegas" for the conversion of 4k frame sequential to side by side.
I am the so called friend of HDGametest and the man with the CRT projectors in the team. I had an account here under noos@xp37+, but I was not able to recativate it. My post about the hardware in AVS was done when the thread was for 4k 2d only. As you can see, 3d is added later later in a post, and than added (edited) in the first 2d post.
We are many in the channel, like hardware geeks, gamers, prof. technicians - so you can expect success in many fields to be uploaded. Or just entertaining stuff like from out "beat em up" fanatic....
Someone made fun out of my CRTs? Well, the model on the top of the wooden rack is a Marquee 9500 Ultra. This one was on the market until two years ago for more than 40000 dollar by VDC - but only military and space programs were able to affort them and their blacks on the screen. My one (9500 Ultra) is only the second best as I say in the video as it is rated to do resolutions up to 2500x2000 (with special high resolution tubes)or in older pdfs at a minimum of 2048x1536 at stereo refresh rates. Not bad, but we use them because of their real life picture that prfessional simulators or high end games and home cinema people want. If you want to test one, you can buy one in the US/Canada, so go here for 7500 dollar fo a used one: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTforSale_HighPerformance.shtm If you want one in Europe, I can give you some names. I can not tell you about the other projectos in the rack, as time is rare and they are super rare with own hisory. The best CRT is/was still the Barco Reality 909 that can go, as I suggest in the video, up to 3200x2560. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/BarcoReality909_Brochure.pdf
With two of mine or a 909 in a blend you can, and it is done, do and resolve 4k as I show with the blend resolutions at the end of the videos. But I will not start a CRT dialog here, because there is only a few peaple left that did go to the maximum or have seen it.
About the screenshots. Thanks for your question. The upload are downscaled at the AVS forum. If you want to see them in true qualtiy, visit: http://www.wsgf.org/dr/crysis-3/en or Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2.
We will update the master games list as often as possible.
The FOV inceases in some games, and in some games it does not. You can test is for yourself when changing resolutions in a game on your normal desktop. But normaly the same scene is shown only with a higher number of pixel (Quake 2 times are over :-). If a game shows more FOV with your experiment, it will show more with 4k. We tried to show that with Diablo 3, but out screenhots are worng, as you should restart the game for every res. change to get it covered in the shots. Diablo 3 shows in fact more FOV!
We will focus on videos now, so sorry for ignoring the general 4k discussion or anything else.
You're claim of 4K "StereoGamePlay" via a Nvidia GPU over a single HDMI connection is ridicilous.
Lol, you're AVS post was about 2D...WTF...
Of course you'll ignore the rebutal and not provide any proof or evidence as requested.
Just about any projector digital or analog will accept a higher input resolution but "IT WILL" display it at "NATIVE" resolution.
Do you know what the term "ACTIVE PIXELS" means?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_hraa.html
"because the graphics processor is rendering more actual pixels than will be displayed, it must scale and filter those pixels down to the resolution for final display. This scaling and filtering can further reduce performance."
Since Geforce 3....How long ago was that?...Nothing new.
So according to your definition of a 4K display, those millions of CRT monitors that people threw away were high end 4K monitors.
But, CRT Projectors are still limited by their tubes and light guns as to how well they can resolve and display a resolution. As well as being limited by the inherent constraints imposed by their embeded input connection chips/processors.
So while the Marque 9500 Ultra can resolve a 2500x2000p resolution, it can only do so at certain restrictions and limitations.
While CRT monitors were good for 3D gaming, CRT Projectors are not and tend to ghost.
Sorry, but now you make it offical. You talk without knowing any facts.
CRT projectors, and all I have linked, are equipped with special P43 phosphor green. None ghosting super fast decay! You should at least read the pdfs I provide or do some googling on P43 - if you know nothing about it. That is also why military and space agencys paid so much for them until recent times - but with bankrupcy these times are over and CRT can not be justified anymore. 3d at CRT projectors is since ten year the best money can buy, an absolutely ghosting fee experiance - but you might need a pro to do it. Also check our official channle video, there you can see for second my collection of 3d glasses. On the right side are professional ones for CRTs that did cost more than a tousand dollar a piece (long ime ago and some recent). I do 3d via Nviida with them and a generated sync from the monitor signal (very basic consumer 3d equipment).
Back to you, even I in the profesional sector do not know of more than one p43 none ghosting monitior - pro one at the cost of a family car! So you get sth. very very wrong. I did wrote long "how to´s´" to get standart CRT monitors ghosting free - but only for advanced consumers. Most of it is in post 12 by me: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13765
P43 3d is simple and stunning out of the box - all avantages of CRTs + best stereo!
And do not talk about resolutions and CRTs! You have no idea what a Marquee or a Barco or others can display (more than 150khz!!!) But they only resolves to full beauty what is said in the descriptions (2500x2000 or for the Barco 3200x2560), and I would recommend to drive them much lower for best picture.
You should careful look and learn in my video about the "khz" number I display on every sheet - so you see at what a low level of the capabilities of the CRTs we work in the CRT video. But sure, you can not use this on CRT monitors, for several reasons.
I can not teach you these things. I would, if you would be more respectful. Probabaly you now get an imagination what you miss on todays professional "digital" market - if you do not know what was state of the art in the last 15 (!) years of pro equipment. Or, what can be made possible with high end digital consumer stuff and the right portion of knowledge
You are still very welcome to join this project here, and help us providing a better 3d experiance in our videos. But please stop spammning this thread - no person has the time to read it fully now.
I don't think it's harsh at all.
D-Man11 has just asked for some facts, which so far have not materialized.
Person X comes along and claims something incredible which to most people seems either unlikely or impossible.
Community ask for facts to back up this claim
If I had said I ran 100m in 8 seconds, would you just believe it or would you ask me to provide some evidence?
And again, no where is claimed a hdmi connection is used without a capturing videporcessor in between! We need this devices to caputure the insane amount of data. You are confused because we are many people using several single and multi display steups, and also the capturing is done differently. You get an imaginaing by the different 4k resoltions we upload - by many different users and screens. And stop about this toy thing "downsapling" - it was never done past 3840 on the horizontal! We do full hd 4096 and 4085! Do your homework befor you call us downsampler or worse.
Also, the only consumer Scaler and device I know of is the Lumagen Radiance - it can accept 4k 30hz - not more.
If you input 4k to you full hd devices, you will/might blow yout HDMI port and/or get a blackscreen!
All people need to to know about what we are doing, is that 3840x2160 60 hz is in between a digital pixel clock of 499-520, and 4096x2306 60hz is between 580-599. Also possible with your consumer cards.
Save money, look careful around, and buy he right 4k screen.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/522300/304-48-major-bug-pixel-clock-ramdac-nvidia-drops-support-for-120hz-on-displays-above-1080p-/
Some simple questions:
Does the nvidia Graphics card produce a proper full 4k (3840x2080) image in 3D at a combined framerate near 60hz.
In times where 4k monitors use dual displayport for 60hz performance it shouldn't be trivial.
From what I can read none of the CRT projectors are widescreen enough to do the most common 4k resolution.
Whatever you are doing there must be tradeoffs involved while I'm sure the end result could be pretty damn good anyway. You are describing bad ass crt projectors.
But at the end of the day it is far from the best solution.
Local Cinema, Hobbit, 5k resolution, 48hz, 800" screen.
Big budget 3D solution.
Quick edit: I clearly only read the beginning of thread as I keep Learning new stuff.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com
Thanks for your questions.
Yes, even Nvidia consumer cards do with. I do it up to 60hz - so thirty per eye. Even at 4096x2306 at 60 hz. If some has the device to test - I am using 320.49 forcware, but all others so far worked too.
You can use CRT projectors in all aspects, as I do with 22/9. You will not use full phosphor then - but in relation the same amount than with a different aspect ratio.
(Screen)size does not matter - just how much field of view is covered :-).
5k 2d is no problem with 2 CRT Projectors - 3d is different. Than it is 24 per eye triplefalshed (triplfash) to 72hz per eye - a stunning total of 144hz at this resolution.
I do not know about 48 frame material when in 3d, could mean only 48 per eye in a total of 96. But I exepct it to be doubleflashed to 96 per eye. Wow...
Aside from this the only way I can see 3D Vision working at such resolutions is in generic CRT mode which I thought no longer existed in the drivers. My CRT died many years ago so I really don't know much there.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481133/we-do-real-single-display-4k-videos
I'll quote it for you
Because they have Siiiiiiiiixxxxxxxxxxxxxx TMDS pairs
Do you know what an EDID is and how it works? Last I checked there is not an infinity option in the data block.
Then at the botom he says you are now capturing 4K in Frame Sequential.
Look, I just keep pointing out that not everything seems to be adding up. To me it seems that you are simply downsampling. It's been done for a long time.
You continually fail to provide details and beat around the bush like a woman.
I do not doubt your past experience and history with CRTs and 3D. I know about Moome cards, I know about short life green tubes. I do not know a lot about CRT PJs, but I do know a little.