3D Movies/DVDs Whats works with 3D Vision
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[quote name='Freke1' post='531981' date='Apr 19 2009, 06:49 AM']:blink:
There's even a HeadMountedDisplay for iPhones that can play 3D videos/movies: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYjfoRIHYPc&"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYjfoRIHYPc&[/url]
besides these:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbb4ykvUI2w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbb4ykvUI2w[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyEeEWb21zw&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyEeEWb21zw&NR=1[/url]
which is supported by Nvidia:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLImrYqLsIA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLImrYqLsIA[/url]

There is a big shortage of sidebyside high res 3D movies to buy unless I'm missing something.[/quote]

One thing I noticed, if you watch the review of the 3DVision system, he states near the end that he watched Star Wars in 3D at the show.. Hmm where is that one? I'm assuming they made it special for the show using 2 cameras while playing the movie in 2D. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure since Sony is deveolping a 3D system that they will be releasing plenty of 3D movies in the near future.

Rick
[quote name='Freke1' post='531981' date='Apr 19 2009, 06:49 AM']:blink:

There's even a HeadMountedDisplay for iPhones that can play 3D videos/movies: ;" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">;

besides these:

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">

;NR=1" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">;NR=1

which is supported by Nvidia:

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">



There is a big shortage of sidebyside high res 3D movies to buy unless I'm missing something.



One thing I noticed, if you watch the review of the 3DVision system, he states near the end that he watched Star Wars in 3D at the show.. Hmm where is that one? I'm assuming they made it special for the show using 2 cameras while playing the movie in 2D. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure since Sony is deveolping a 3D system that they will be releasing plenty of 3D movies in the near future.



Rick

#16
Posted 04/19/2009 02:28 PM   
[quote name='rickhtoo' post='532052' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:28 AM']One thing I noticed, if you watch the review of the 3DVision system, he states near the end that he watched Star Wars in 3D at the show..[/quote]

Star Wars Episode 1 (according to DVDShrink) has one feature with three angles:
[img]http://byteusa.com/l4d/starwars1.jpg[/img]

So if there stereo angles already on this disc, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell the Stereoscopic player recognize or use different dvd "angles" as the different sources.

One option would be to rip each angle and load them as left and right manually into the video player. I'm trying that now, but it probably won't work.
[quote name='rickhtoo' post='532052' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:28 AM']One thing I noticed, if you watch the review of the 3DVision system, he states near the end that he watched Star Wars in 3D at the show..



Star Wars Episode 1 (according to DVDShrink) has one feature with three angles:

Image



So if there stereo angles already on this disc, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell the Stereoscopic player recognize or use different dvd "angles" as the different sources.



One option would be to rip each angle and load them as left and right manually into the video player. I'm trying that now, but it probably won't work.

1x Intel S5000Xvn Mainboard

2x Quad 2.66GHz Xeons (X5355, 8 Cores)

1x EVGA GTX480

8x 2GB FB-DIMM 667 (16GB)

2x 64GB Corsair M4 SSDs in RAID0 (System)

4x 1TB SATA2 64MB Cache Western Digital Black's in RAID0 (Storage)

1x Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

1x BD-ROM

1x DVD-RW

1x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Power Supply

1x Dell 30" 2560x1600 LCD

1x Samsung 22" 120hz GeForce 3D Vision Display

1x APC 1500VAC SmartUPS Battery Backup

1x Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit

#17
Posted 04/19/2009 05:52 PM   
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='532104' date='Apr 19 2009, 12:52 PM']Star Wars Episode 1 (according to DVDShrink) has one feature with three angles:

So if there stereo angles already on this disc, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell the Stereoscopic player recognize or use different dvd "angles" as the different sources.

One option would be to rip each angle and load them as left and right manually into the video player. I'm trying that now, but it probably won't work.[/quote] /ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />

Nevermind. Turns out those are different languages for the intro dialog flying into space.
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='532104' date='Apr 19 2009, 12:52 PM']Star Wars Episode 1 (according to DVDShrink) has one feature with three angles:



So if there stereo angles already on this disc, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell the Stereoscopic player recognize or use different dvd "angles" as the different sources.



One option would be to rip each angle and load them as left and right manually into the video player. I'm trying that now, but it probably won't work. /ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />



Nevermind. Turns out those are different languages for the intro dialog flying into space.

1x Intel S5000Xvn Mainboard

2x Quad 2.66GHz Xeons (X5355, 8 Cores)

1x EVGA GTX480

8x 2GB FB-DIMM 667 (16GB)

2x 64GB Corsair M4 SSDs in RAID0 (System)

4x 1TB SATA2 64MB Cache Western Digital Black's in RAID0 (Storage)

1x Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

1x BD-ROM

1x DVD-RW

1x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Power Supply

1x Dell 30" 2560x1600 LCD

1x Samsung 22" 120hz GeForce 3D Vision Display

1x APC 1500VAC SmartUPS Battery Backup

1x Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit

#18
Posted 04/19/2009 06:58 PM   
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='532132' date='Apr 19 2009, 02:58 PM']/ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />

Nevermind. Turns out those are different languages for the intro dialog flying into space.[/quote]

That's weird. Never seen that on a DVD before. Obviously there couldnt' be 3 different tracks, that would add up to around 19 Gb which of course will not fit on a DVD. Must be the same track with different intro's (angles..) added onto the beginning. And now that I think about it, there is no way to get a 3D image from a DVD playing a 2D screen. hmmm... Something ain't right here. How did they come up with a 3D version of Star Wars? Only way would be to film it that way. I'm confused...

Rick
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='532132' date='Apr 19 2009, 02:58 PM']/ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />



Nevermind. Turns out those are different languages for the intro dialog flying into space.



That's weird. Never seen that on a DVD before. Obviously there couldnt' be 3 different tracks, that would add up to around 19 Gb which of course will not fit on a DVD. Must be the same track with different intro's (angles..) added onto the beginning. And now that I think about it, there is no way to get a 3D image from a DVD playing a 2D screen. hmmm... Something ain't right here. How did they come up with a 3D version of Star Wars? Only way would be to film it that way. I'm confused...



Rick

#19
Posted 04/19/2009 10:34 PM   
[quote name='rickhtoo' post='532184' date='Apr 19 2009, 06:34 PM']That's weird. Never seen that on a DVD before. Obviously there couldnt' be 3 different tracks, that would add up to around 19 Gb which of course will not fit on a DVD. Must be the same track with different intro's (angles..) added onto the beginning. And now that I think about it, there is no way to get a 3D image from a DVD playing a 2D screen. hmmm... Something ain't right here. How did they come up with a 3D version of Star Wars? Only way would be to film it that way. I'm confused...

Rick[/quote]


While browsing the videos at this URL "various 3D videos: [url="http://www.3d.wep.dk/3dgallery.html""]http://www.3d.wep.dk/3dgallery.html"[/url] I downloaded one near the bottom called Russian 3D nature video. It takes a while but it's worth it. Very nice and the popout effect is awesome. You can see bugs from time to time that appear to be right in front of the glasses. Of course the aspect ratio is incorrect, and you have to choose side by side to get interlaced... It will be really nice they they get that crap fixed... Checkout them out anyway at least it's something..

Rick
[quote name='rickhtoo' post='532184' date='Apr 19 2009, 06:34 PM']That's weird. Never seen that on a DVD before. Obviously there couldnt' be 3 different tracks, that would add up to around 19 Gb which of course will not fit on a DVD. Must be the same track with different intro's (angles..) added onto the beginning. And now that I think about it, there is no way to get a 3D image from a DVD playing a 2D screen. hmmm... Something ain't right here. How did they come up with a 3D version of Star Wars? Only way would be to film it that way. I'm confused...



Rick





While browsing the videos at this URL "various 3D videos: http://www.3d.wep.dk/3dgallery.html" I downloaded one near the bottom called Russian 3D nature video. It takes a while but it's worth it. Very nice and the popout effect is awesome. You can see bugs from time to time that appear to be right in front of the glasses. Of course the aspect ratio is incorrect, and you have to choose side by side to get interlaced... It will be really nice they they get that crap fixed... Checkout them out anyway at least it's something..



Rick

#20
Posted 04/20/2009 05:15 AM   
So has no one got an actual movie to work with 3D Vision? Not the downloaded videos, but an actual recent rental DVD movie?

Seems like there is a LOT of them out there these days and more and more being released soon. It would be a great market if Nvidia can make this work with this setup for their extra glasses (when they have them of course.
So has no one got an actual movie to work with 3D Vision? Not the downloaded videos, but an actual recent rental DVD movie?



Seems like there is a LOT of them out there these days and more and more being released soon. It would be a great market if Nvidia can make this work with this setup for their extra glasses (when they have them of course.

Windows 10 x64 Pro
1 x 980 GTX
3D Vision on 65" DLP

#21
Posted 05/05/2009 04:32 AM   
I assume it costs too much to mass-produce actual 3d media versions of movies, even ones that are made for 3d (i.e. Beowulf, Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc). There just aren't enough people with nvidia 3d Vision (or iz3d, etc) to justify the cost of mass producing and distributing such media. This is where it comes back to marketing and whether or not nvidia is willing to bet on their technology's success. If they really truly believe in it, all they have to do is get Sony or Universal distribution behind it enough to start releasing 3d Blu-Rays. Once you can watch your favorite movie in 3d, nvidia 3d Vision systems will start flying off the shelves.

However, I don't think there's a technology that can turn 2d movies into 3d (yet). Although I imagine at some point we will see technology that can do for video what Dolby Pro Logic IIx does for audio. I doubt it will be anytime soon, though.
I assume it costs too much to mass-produce actual 3d media versions of movies, even ones that are made for 3d (i.e. Beowulf, Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc). There just aren't enough people with nvidia 3d Vision (or iz3d, etc) to justify the cost of mass producing and distributing such media. This is where it comes back to marketing and whether or not nvidia is willing to bet on their technology's success. If they really truly believe in it, all they have to do is get Sony or Universal distribution behind it enough to start releasing 3d Blu-Rays. Once you can watch your favorite movie in 3d, nvidia 3d Vision systems will start flying off the shelves.



However, I don't think there's a technology that can turn 2d movies into 3d (yet). Although I imagine at some point we will see technology that can do for video what Dolby Pro Logic IIx does for audio. I doubt it will be anytime soon, though.

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#22
Posted 05/05/2009 01:55 PM   
Hi all, interesting discussion. I have some things to add.

Computing power needed for playing 3d videos:
I could tell you the details of how I've watched 3d DVD's on my win98se computer (1.8 GHz AMD Athlon w/256MB ram and geForce4 card) using mplayer but it's very technical and I don't feel good about suggesting a solution that still has A/V sync difficulties that I haven't been able to solve reliably. Maybe if I do, someone else could find an answer I could not. Anyway, my reason for posting now is just to point out that it's possible to play 3d videos with an old system and it doesn't have to be super powerful. BUT, it might turn out that you do need a more powerful system to play 3d DVDs using other software like Stereoscopic player or nvidia's 3d-player. Software matters and mplayer is a less-demanding app. I'll say more about that later.

Cost of distributing 3d video:
For now I just wanted to say that I don't really buy the "it's too expensive" excuse for not producing 3d dvd's (field-interlaced or other). I just rented "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and they included the old black and white version in the box. That wasn't too expensive for them, a DVD costs pennies. Heck, let Netflix write the 3d DVDs on a per-demand basis or make digital copies available for download. I don't see how cost can be a prohibiting issue for them. It would jumpstart home 3d movie viewing if they did more.

Starwars and other movies converted into 3d:
Conversion is definitely tricky but it can help if the movie is made in a certain way, at least for certain scenes. I heard somewhere that Lucas filmed some of his movies with later conversion in mind and I see it might be true when I see his outdoor scenic shots where the camera pans across the landscape. I just wanted to explain to people that this is one way to get different camera angles in order to put together a 3d scene. Of course that's not enough but here's the idea. If the camera flies sideways in a scene then you're getting different perspectives on the landscape. Make 2 videos from this scene, chop off 1 second from the front of one copy and 1 second from the end of the other copy. Then send one copy to one of your eyes and the other to the other eye and it sould look 3d. If it doesn't look right, try swapping eye-views or changing the timing. The timing difference translates into camera/eye-view separation since the camera was moving. Of course, this works best when things in the scene don't move like if there're spaceships flying around, then it can be visually confusing since the ships will be in a different place for each eye. That might turn out OK if the ships are far away and you use a small time diference. Otherwise the video would need editing/processing. There are other techniques for conversion but I really haven't seen a well-converted movie unless you consider Beowulf to be converted which is what I've heard. But they did it during the original production so that's different, also because of the way it was made using motion capture. There are some converted Flash Gordon 3D DVDs but only get them if you're curious to see how bad things can be.

So my question to you guys in order to use mplayer to watch 3d videos is this:
Can you get the glasses shuttering while looking at the desktop?
and Can you activate some kind of line-blanking mode or sync-doubling mode?
By the way, What 3d output formats does the 3d-vision system support? Is it as good as the old drivers with like 10 different output modes?

How I watch 3d videos, general info and why you won't like it :(
Anyway, there are 2 main ways that I would watch a 3d video, interlaced (field-sequential using line-blanking) and page-flipping (frame-sequential: alternating left/right frames). Frame-sequential is definitely the favorite but field-sequential is more reliable. I would watch frame-sequential at 60 Hz (30 per eye) which I know many people won't like but maybe it could be doubled. Maybe. You or someone might need to process the movie especially for that beforehand, I don't know. Interlaced mode is can be shown easily with any frequency but it has two big IMHO drawbacks and that is that, using line-blanking, every other horizontal line is dark meaning that the whole picture is too dark IMHO and you can see the degraded vertical res. The magic of mplayer is that it can take interlaced input at 30 FPS and generate 2 frames out of every one using alternating even/odd lines. This allows it to generate alternating L/R full-frame images at 60 FPS from the 30 FPS source and it can do this on-the-fly. It was pretty awesome when I figured this out. The problem for most people is that I use this as a command-line program and most people won't want to do it that way. I'll give you more details if someone asks for it. It's kind of technical. By the way, the reason why a 60 Hz shutterglass speed doesn't bother me is because I use a projector in the dark. It matters alot, it's no good in the daytime. Also, if you're going to use a CRT or an old TV, interlaced mode can be acceptable so much that you might not even notice the missing horizontal lines.

Technical note: yes the vertical res is still technically half even when mplayer creates full-frames out of every other line, but it still looks alot better than line-blanking when using a projector.

Oh boy, that's enough for now.
Later all.
Hi all, interesting discussion. I have some things to add.



Computing power needed for playing 3d videos:

I could tell you the details of how I've watched 3d DVD's on my win98se computer (1.8 GHz AMD Athlon w/256MB ram and geForce4 card) using mplayer but it's very technical and I don't feel good about suggesting a solution that still has A/V sync difficulties that I haven't been able to solve reliably. Maybe if I do, someone else could find an answer I could not. Anyway, my reason for posting now is just to point out that it's possible to play 3d videos with an old system and it doesn't have to be super powerful. BUT, it might turn out that you do need a more powerful system to play 3d DVDs using other software like Stereoscopic player or nvidia's 3d-player. Software matters and mplayer is a less-demanding app. I'll say more about that later.



Cost of distributing 3d video:

For now I just wanted to say that I don't really buy the "it's too expensive" excuse for not producing 3d dvd's (field-interlaced or other). I just rented "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and they included the old black and white version in the box. That wasn't too expensive for them, a DVD costs pennies. Heck, let Netflix write the 3d DVDs on a per-demand basis or make digital copies available for download. I don't see how cost can be a prohibiting issue for them. It would jumpstart home 3d movie viewing if they did more.



Starwars and other movies converted into 3d:

Conversion is definitely tricky but it can help if the movie is made in a certain way, at least for certain scenes. I heard somewhere that Lucas filmed some of his movies with later conversion in mind and I see it might be true when I see his outdoor scenic shots where the camera pans across the landscape. I just wanted to explain to people that this is one way to get different camera angles in order to put together a 3d scene. Of course that's not enough but here's the idea. If the camera flies sideways in a scene then you're getting different perspectives on the landscape. Make 2 videos from this scene, chop off 1 second from the front of one copy and 1 second from the end of the other copy. Then send one copy to one of your eyes and the other to the other eye and it sould look 3d. If it doesn't look right, try swapping eye-views or changing the timing. The timing difference translates into camera/eye-view separation since the camera was moving. Of course, this works best when things in the scene don't move like if there're spaceships flying around, then it can be visually confusing since the ships will be in a different place for each eye. That might turn out OK if the ships are far away and you use a small time diference. Otherwise the video would need editing/processing. There are other techniques for conversion but I really haven't seen a well-converted movie unless you consider Beowulf to be converted which is what I've heard. But they did it during the original production so that's different, also because of the way it was made using motion capture. There are some converted Flash Gordon 3D DVDs but only get them if you're curious to see how bad things can be.



So my question to you guys in order to use mplayer to watch 3d videos is this:

Can you get the glasses shuttering while looking at the desktop?

and Can you activate some kind of line-blanking mode or sync-doubling mode?

By the way, What 3d output formats does the 3d-vision system support? Is it as good as the old drivers with like 10 different output modes?



How I watch 3d videos, general info and why you won't like it :(

Anyway, there are 2 main ways that I would watch a 3d video, interlaced (field-sequential using line-blanking) and page-flipping (frame-sequential: alternating left/right frames). Frame-sequential is definitely the favorite but field-sequential is more reliable. I would watch frame-sequential at 60 Hz (30 per eye) which I know many people won't like but maybe it could be doubled. Maybe. You or someone might need to process the movie especially for that beforehand, I don't know. Interlaced mode is can be shown easily with any frequency but it has two big IMHO drawbacks and that is that, using line-blanking, every other horizontal line is dark meaning that the whole picture is too dark IMHO and you can see the degraded vertical res. The magic of mplayer is that it can take interlaced input at 30 FPS and generate 2 frames out of every one using alternating even/odd lines. This allows it to generate alternating L/R full-frame images at 60 FPS from the 30 FPS source and it can do this on-the-fly. It was pretty awesome when I figured this out. The problem for most people is that I use this as a command-line program and most people won't want to do it that way. I'll give you more details if someone asks for it. It's kind of technical. By the way, the reason why a 60 Hz shutterglass speed doesn't bother me is because I use a projector in the dark. It matters alot, it's no good in the daytime. Also, if you're going to use a CRT or an old TV, interlaced mode can be acceptable so much that you might not even notice the missing horizontal lines.



Technical note: yes the vertical res is still technically half even when mplayer creates full-frames out of every other line, but it still looks alot better than line-blanking when using a projector.



Oh boy, that's enough for now.

Later all.

#23
Posted 05/10/2009 10:46 AM   
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='537748' date='May 5 2009, 07:55 AM']I assume it costs too much to mass-produce actual 3d media versions of movies, even ones that are made for 3d (i.e. Beowulf, Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc). There just aren't enough people with nvidia 3d Vision (or iz3d, etc) to justify the cost of mass producing and distributing such media. This is where it comes back to marketing and whether or not nvidia is willing to bet on their technology's success. If they really truly believe in it, all they have to do is get Sony or Universal distribution behind it enough to start releasing 3d Blu-Rays. Once you can watch your favorite movie in 3d, nvidia 3d Vision systems will start flying off the shelves.

However, I don't think there's a technology that can turn 2d movies into 3d (yet). Although I imagine at some point we will see technology that can do for video what Dolby Pro Logic IIx does for audio. I doubt it will be anytime soon, though.[/quote]
Samsung has a set of glasses with the Emitter (Work with there 3d Ready T.V.'s. This has drivers that can change 2 D format to 3 D format.

Go to this

[url="http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accessory/type/accList.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=tvaccessories&subsubtype=3dkit"]http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accesso...ubsubtype=3dkit[/url]

Im going to pick this up soon, I can't keep waiting for Nvidia to release more glasses. This way I can have a set with 2 glasses so I can watch 3d Movies with my Wife!!
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='537748' date='May 5 2009, 07:55 AM']I assume it costs too much to mass-produce actual 3d media versions of movies, even ones that are made for 3d (i.e. Beowulf, Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc). There just aren't enough people with nvidia 3d Vision (or iz3d, etc) to justify the cost of mass producing and distributing such media. This is where it comes back to marketing and whether or not nvidia is willing to bet on their technology's success. If they really truly believe in it, all they have to do is get Sony or Universal distribution behind it enough to start releasing 3d Blu-Rays. Once you can watch your favorite movie in 3d, nvidia 3d Vision systems will start flying off the shelves.



However, I don't think there's a technology that can turn 2d movies into 3d (yet). Although I imagine at some point we will see technology that can do for video what Dolby Pro Logic IIx does for audio. I doubt it will be anytime soon, though.

Samsung has a set of glasses with the Emitter (Work with there 3d Ready T.V.'s. This has drivers that can change 2 D format to 3 D format.



Go to this



http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accesso...ubsubtype=3dkit



Im going to pick this up soon, I can't keep waiting for Nvidia to release more glasses. This way I can have a set with 2 glasses so I can watch 3d Movies with my Wife!!

#24
Posted 05/10/2009 07:33 PM   
[quote name='3d Gamer Ready' post='539590' date='May 10 2009, 03:33 PM']Samsung has a set of glasses with the Emitter (Work with there 3d Ready T.V.'s. This has drivers that can change 2 D format to 3 D format.

Go to this

[url="http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accessory/type/accList.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=tvaccessories&subsubtype=3dkit"]http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accesso...ubsubtype=3dkit[/url]

Im going to pick this up soon, I can't keep waiting for Nvidia to release more glasses. This way I can have a set with 2 glasses so I can watch 3d Movies with my Wife!![/quote]

Wow, very interesting. I had no idea this already existed. I wonder why nvidia hasn't enabled this with their 3d Vision yet? Having already spent so much on nvidia's system and the 120hz monitor I won't be spending on the samsung system too, but I really would like to see nvidia enable this feature.

Let's hope nvidia doesn't drop the ball when they've already come this far.
[quote name='3d Gamer Ready' post='539590' date='May 10 2009, 03:33 PM']Samsung has a set of glasses with the Emitter (Work with there 3d Ready T.V.'s. This has drivers that can change 2 D format to 3 D format.



Go to this



http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accesso...ubsubtype=3dkit



Im going to pick this up soon, I can't keep waiting for Nvidia to release more glasses. This way I can have a set with 2 glasses so I can watch 3d Movies with my Wife!!



Wow, very interesting. I had no idea this already existed. I wonder why nvidia hasn't enabled this with their 3d Vision yet? Having already spent so much on nvidia's system and the 120hz monitor I won't be spending on the samsung system too, but I really would like to see nvidia enable this feature.



Let's hope nvidia doesn't drop the ball when they've already come this far.

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#25
Posted 05/11/2009 02:57 PM   
I have read this thread and understand the science behind how this 2D to 3D "upscale" is supposed to work.

Anytime you're adding something to video/audio on the fly (x-fi crystallizer anyone?) it turns out poor quality.

The samsung glasses will be great for media created FOR S3D, but I would caution anyone who is buying that for an Nvidia 3D Vision alternative: "this is not the same thing".
I have read this thread and understand the science behind how this 2D to 3D "upscale" is supposed to work.



Anytime you're adding something to video/audio on the fly (x-fi crystallizer anyone?) it turns out poor quality.



The samsung glasses will be great for media created FOR S3D, but I would caution anyone who is buying that for an Nvidia 3D Vision alternative: "this is not the same thing".

1x Intel S5000Xvn Mainboard

2x Quad 2.66GHz Xeons (X5355, 8 Cores)

1x EVGA GTX480

8x 2GB FB-DIMM 667 (16GB)

2x 64GB Corsair M4 SSDs in RAID0 (System)

4x 1TB SATA2 64MB Cache Western Digital Black's in RAID0 (Storage)

1x Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

1x BD-ROM

1x DVD-RW

1x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Power Supply

1x Dell 30" 2560x1600 LCD

1x Samsung 22" 120hz GeForce 3D Vision Display

1x APC 1500VAC SmartUPS Battery Backup

1x Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit

#26
Posted 05/13/2009 01:09 PM   
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='540670' date='May 13 2009, 09:09 AM']I have read this thread and understand the science behind how this 2D to 3D "upscale" is supposed to work.

Anytime you're adding something to video/audio on the fly (x-fi crystallizer anyone?) it turns out poor quality.[/quote]

I beg to differ. Dolby Pro Logic IIx works brilliantly to up-mix mono/stereo audio signals into 5.1 Surround. And personally, I *LOVE* my X-Fi. The X-Fi is a huge advance in pc-based audio processing and actually does a great job when used properly (re: when the user understands what it does is amplifies and accentuates what's already in the audio file -- if it's a scratchy 128kbps mp3 to begin with, X-Fi only makes it worse... But give it a nice clean 256kbps .m4a ripped from CD and the X-Fi can make the nuances lost in 16-bit CD audio and give it back some of it's 24-bit depth & clarity). DTS-Neo and Creative's CMSS3D are notable for their real-time conversion of 2-channel audio signals into multi-channel output as well, though not quite up to par, so those might support your theory more than mine. But there are already plenty of DVD players on the market that convert standard DVD quality to Hi-Def 1080i output quite well (with the higher-end models from Sony & Samsung the resulting image is easily recognizable as higher quality than standard DVD quality without up-sampling).

Anyway, to me it seems totally conceivable to me that Sony's product may be able to up-convert a 2d video input signal to a stereoscopic 3d output. The more I think on it, the more reasonable it sounds. All you'd need is a really powerful gpu(s) capable of maintaining a high load of graphical conversion calculations in real-time (or with an advanced buffering system) while a video file is playing.

That said, I'll grant you that much like how Pro Logic can't perfectly convert a stereo audio signal into actual Dolby Digital 5.1 dedicated-channel sound I would assume Sony's system would be imperfect, too, and wouldn't magically render every 20 year old VHS movie into perfect 3d.... But it wouldn't seem unreasonable that it should be able to turn a high-quality blu-ray image into a reasonably immersive 3d experience as well as any other up-sampling hardware/software might as long as the dev get the algorithms & hardware architecture right.

What has me baffled, though, is why nvidia, who with 3d Vision already on the consumer market could easily beat Sony or Samsung to the punch with 3d dvd/blu-ray viewing technology, rather than enabling dvd/blu-ray playback in their viewer with stereoscopic up-converting is still giving no indication whether they ever intend to enable such functionality at all. :wacko: I guess nvidia is probably too busy trying to elbow their way into Intel's chip market-share to put any energy into taking advantage of 3d technology to position themselves for a much more prominent role in the LCD/blu-ray industry of the future. Very poor business strategy if you ask me. It'd be a lot wiser (and potentially even more lucrative) for nvidia to stick to what they're known for -- graphics -- and use that expertise to position their 3d entertainment system as the must-have accessory for every LCD & blu-ray player. I mean, it's crystal clear that 3d is coming just like Hi-Def was coming 10 years ago; it's not a matter of "if", it's just a matter of "who" and "when".
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='540670' date='May 13 2009, 09:09 AM']I have read this thread and understand the science behind how this 2D to 3D "upscale" is supposed to work.



Anytime you're adding something to video/audio on the fly (x-fi crystallizer anyone?) it turns out poor quality.



I beg to differ. Dolby Pro Logic IIx works brilliantly to up-mix mono/stereo audio signals into 5.1 Surround. And personally, I *LOVE* my X-Fi. The X-Fi is a huge advance in pc-based audio processing and actually does a great job when used properly (re: when the user understands what it does is amplifies and accentuates what's already in the audio file -- if it's a scratchy 128kbps mp3 to begin with, X-Fi only makes it worse... But give it a nice clean 256kbps .m4a ripped from CD and the X-Fi can make the nuances lost in 16-bit CD audio and give it back some of it's 24-bit depth & clarity). DTS-Neo and Creative's CMSS3D are notable for their real-time conversion of 2-channel audio signals into multi-channel output as well, though not quite up to par, so those might support your theory more than mine. But there are already plenty of DVD players on the market that convert standard DVD quality to Hi-Def 1080i output quite well (with the higher-end models from Sony & Samsung the resulting image is easily recognizable as higher quality than standard DVD quality without up-sampling).



Anyway, to me it seems totally conceivable to me that Sony's product may be able to up-convert a 2d video input signal to a stereoscopic 3d output. The more I think on it, the more reasonable it sounds. All you'd need is a really powerful gpu(s) capable of maintaining a high load of graphical conversion calculations in real-time (or with an advanced buffering system) while a video file is playing.



That said, I'll grant you that much like how Pro Logic can't perfectly convert a stereo audio signal into actual Dolby Digital 5.1 dedicated-channel sound I would assume Sony's system would be imperfect, too, and wouldn't magically render every 20 year old VHS movie into perfect 3d.... But it wouldn't seem unreasonable that it should be able to turn a high-quality blu-ray image into a reasonably immersive 3d experience as well as any other up-sampling hardware/software might as long as the dev get the algorithms & hardware architecture right.



What has me baffled, though, is why nvidia, who with 3d Vision already on the consumer market could easily beat Sony or Samsung to the punch with 3d dvd/blu-ray viewing technology, rather than enabling dvd/blu-ray playback in their viewer with stereoscopic up-converting is still giving no indication whether they ever intend to enable such functionality at all. :wacko: I guess nvidia is probably too busy trying to elbow their way into Intel's chip market-share to put any energy into taking advantage of 3d technology to position themselves for a much more prominent role in the LCD/blu-ray industry of the future. Very poor business strategy if you ask me. It'd be a lot wiser (and potentially even more lucrative) for nvidia to stick to what they're known for -- graphics -- and use that expertise to position their 3d entertainment system as the must-have accessory for every LCD & blu-ray player. I mean, it's crystal clear that 3d is coming just like Hi-Def was coming 10 years ago; it's not a matter of "if", it's just a matter of "who" and "when".

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#27
Posted 05/13/2009 02:07 PM   
2d-3d sound conversion is alot easier than 2d-3d video conversion by an enormous amount. It may seem simple but that's 'cause you're a human. Much of the needed data is there or can be assumed, it's true, but I won't believe in good quality 2d-3d conversion on-the-fly untill I see it. I think it's going to take some good artificial intelligence in order to do it well. I've tried one of those products. It's not good. Maybe someone could post some screenshots or better yet, a video. Pretty challenging, I know. Anyway,

Later all.
2d-3d sound conversion is alot easier than 2d-3d video conversion by an enormous amount. It may seem simple but that's 'cause you're a human. Much of the needed data is there or can be assumed, it's true, but I won't believe in good quality 2d-3d conversion on-the-fly untill I see it. I think it's going to take some good artificial intelligence in order to do it well. I've tried one of those products. It's not good. Maybe someone could post some screenshots or better yet, a video. Pretty challenging, I know. Anyway,



Later all.

#28
Posted 05/13/2009 06:16 PM   
[quote name='iondrive' post='540763' date='May 13 2009, 02:16 PM']2d-3d sound conversion is alot easier than 2d-3d video conversion by an enormous amount. It may seem simple but that's 'cause you're a human. Much of the needed data is there or can be assumed, it's true, but I won't believe in good quality 2d-3d conversion on-the-fly untill I see it. I think it's going to take some good artificial intelligence in order to do it well. I've tried one of those products. It's not good. Maybe someone could post some screenshots or better yet, a video. Pretty challenging, I know. Anyway,

Later all.[/quote]

Yes, I understand the massive amount of gpu power it would take to render an effective stereoscopic image from a standard 2d source. That's precisely why I think nvidia is the perfect company to lead the way for the industry -- massive amounts of gpu power is exactly what they do better than anybody else.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the technical details of video coding/decoding/rendering, but I'd be willing to bet my 2xSLI 285s could render converted 3d video in real-time from Blu-Ray @ 1680x1050 without breaking a sweat ..... and there's a new gen just around the corner that is rumored to make the 285 look weak. We're already at the point where there are only a handful of games & apps on the market that can even begin to challenge the processing power of today's high-end gpu's, I'd expect we'll see some major developments in the way of games, apps, and utilities as the year progresses closer and closer to the 300-series release -- they gotta keep us thinking we need MORE power, right?? ;)hehe

Anyway, difficult processing or not, I *guarantee* it's coming. 3d will go mainstream, and there will eventually be 2d-to-3d upconverting hardware and/or software in every home. It's only a question of who's gonna bring it to us and when, not if.

:)
[quote name='iondrive' post='540763' date='May 13 2009, 02:16 PM']2d-3d sound conversion is alot easier than 2d-3d video conversion by an enormous amount. It may seem simple but that's 'cause you're a human. Much of the needed data is there or can be assumed, it's true, but I won't believe in good quality 2d-3d conversion on-the-fly untill I see it. I think it's going to take some good artificial intelligence in order to do it well. I've tried one of those products. It's not good. Maybe someone could post some screenshots or better yet, a video. Pretty challenging, I know. Anyway,



Later all.



Yes, I understand the massive amount of gpu power it would take to render an effective stereoscopic image from a standard 2d source. That's precisely why I think nvidia is the perfect company to lead the way for the industry -- massive amounts of gpu power is exactly what they do better than anybody else.



I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the technical details of video coding/decoding/rendering, but I'd be willing to bet my 2xSLI 285s could render converted 3d video in real-time from Blu-Ray @ 1680x1050 without breaking a sweat ..... and there's a new gen just around the corner that is rumored to make the 285 look weak. We're already at the point where there are only a handful of games & apps on the market that can even begin to challenge the processing power of today's high-end gpu's, I'd expect we'll see some major developments in the way of games, apps, and utilities as the year progresses closer and closer to the 300-series release -- they gotta keep us thinking we need MORE power, right?? ;)hehe



Anyway, difficult processing or not, I *guarantee* it's coming. 3d will go mainstream, and there will eventually be 2d-to-3d upconverting hardware and/or software in every home. It's only a question of who's gonna bring it to us and when, not if.



:)

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#29
Posted 05/13/2009 09:42 PM   
Just a opinion (my):
I think 2D to 3D video conversions is very similar to mono to stereo audio conversions. Basicly impossible or guesswork.
Just a opinion (my):

I think 2D to 3D video conversions is very similar to mono to stereo audio conversions. Basicly impossible or guesswork.

#30
Posted 05/13/2009 10:36 PM   
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