Unfortunately Nthusim has ceased development
http://www.nthusim.com/
The end of an era: NTHUSIM will be closing.
Dear Simulation Enthusiasts. When NTHUSIM first came onto the scene in 2009, there was nothing like it. We were all searching for something better, something that immersed you in the simulator. At the time, home flight simulators would use a projector on a wall. It just wasn’t real. Virtual Reality was then still a pipe dream.
Today, Virtual Reality is everywhere and what can be done for home simulators is better than we could have imagined back then. This is an exciting time to be alive.
In 2016, PLEXSYS Interface Products acquired NTHUSIM as part of a larger merger. In the restructuring, NTHUSIM will close.
A special thank you to Brad Hawthorne, whose passion is clear to all who know him.
Although NTHUSIM product is no longer available for sale, as a good faith measure, we will provide limited support for existing users through April 2018
This is another option https://fly.elise-ng.net/index.php
They used to have a product called immersive display lite that was reasonably priced, but I do not see it listed and the old link is dead.
http://www.fly.elise-ng.net/immersivedisplaylite2
Youtube and Sim sites would be a good place to look for alternatives.
Dear Simulation Enthusiasts. When NTHUSIM first came onto the scene in 2009, there was nothing like it. We were all searching for something better, something that immersed you in the simulator. At the time, home flight simulators would use a projector on a wall. It just wasn’t real. Virtual Reality was then still a pipe dream.
Today, Virtual Reality is everywhere and what can be done for home simulators is better than we could have imagined back then. This is an exciting time to be alive.
In 2016, PLEXSYS Interface Products acquired NTHUSIM as part of a larger merger. In the restructuring, NTHUSIM will close.
A special thank you to Brad Hawthorne, whose passion is clear to all who know him.
Although NTHUSIM product is no longer available for sale, as a good faith measure, we will provide limited support for existing users through April 2018
A lot of these 4K projector have made it to market.
Check AVS forums for reviews from buyers.
Projector central has posted more reviews http://www.projectorcentral.com/
It seems that 0.47 projectors are 3D Ready, meaning they support Frame Sequential from sources like a PC, but do not support SbS, O&U or Frame Packed.
[quote="Quantummagic"][quote="Metal-O-Holic"]Yes offcourse. And it has benefit Also no doubt.
Dual projector passive 3D is not about EASY.
it's about light output and visual quality and flickerness[/quote]
++Less/No Flicker with passive setup...got it.
++Light output?
2 projectors= 2 x light output
passive reduces light by 50% (every 2nd line) and active by 50%(every 2nd frame)....is this wrong then?
Light output should be not a problem, with 2 projectors in any way I guess.(exception with ambient light)
++Visual Quality:
2 passive projectors better than 2 active projectors?
-Why is that dear king of passive projection?[/quote]
-> Light output
Passive/Active = glasses technology [b]ONLY[/b]
Active means the glasses change state over time such as LCD shutter glasses
Passive means the glasses do not change state over time such as polarized, colour anaglyph, or narrowband colour (Dolby3D, Infitec, Omega Optical)
What you meant with 50% lines resolution is actually about FPR = the technique used by TV manufacturers to produce the polarized image for passive polarized glasses with the same type of panel as 2DTVs. (saving significant amounts of money)
Dual projectors display the full image to each eye, there is no 50% penalty here (there are penalties elsewhere, but as far as projectors go, dual-projectors 3D = 2x brightness over active projectors... can be even brighter (almost 80% of 2D) depending on the details of the tech used, but that's a very specific choice of hardware, which I use)
-> Visual quality
-1080p60 per eye... or higher if you have the money and GPU power for 4K projectors
-Simultaneous display in both eyes = no 3D motion distortion = better quality 3D
-Projectors run in 2D mode : all image processing options of 2D are available, no firmware restrictions = more user choice for picture quality
-Crosstalk behaviour (can vary wildly depending on the tech used, but is always a linear bleed, less distracting than the equivalent amount of active crosstalk, there is no overdrive negative ghosting)
Metal-O-Holic said:Yes offcourse. And it has benefit Also no doubt.
Dual projector passive 3D is not about EASY.
it's about light output and visual quality and flickerness
++Less/No Flicker with passive setup...got it.
++Light output?
2 projectors= 2 x light output
passive reduces light by 50% (every 2nd line) and active by 50%(every 2nd frame)....is this wrong then?
Light output should be not a problem, with 2 projectors in any way I guess.(exception with ambient light)
++Visual Quality:
2 passive projectors better than 2 active projectors?
-Why is that dear king of passive projection?
-> Light output
Passive/Active = glasses technology ONLY
Active means the glasses change state over time such as LCD shutter glasses
Passive means the glasses do not change state over time such as polarized, colour anaglyph, or narrowband colour (Dolby3D, Infitec, Omega Optical)
What you meant with 50% lines resolution is actually about FPR = the technique used by TV manufacturers to produce the polarized image for passive polarized glasses with the same type of panel as 2DTVs. (saving significant amounts of money)
Dual projectors display the full image to each eye, there is no 50% penalty here (there are penalties elsewhere, but as far as projectors go, dual-projectors 3D = 2x brightness over active projectors... can be even brighter (almost 80% of 2D) depending on the details of the tech used, but that's a very specific choice of hardware, which I use)
-> Visual quality
-1080p60 per eye... or higher if you have the money and GPU power for 4K projectors
-Simultaneous display in both eyes = no 3D motion distortion = better quality 3D
-Projectors run in 2D mode : all image processing options of 2D are available, no firmware restrictions = more user choice for picture quality
-Crosstalk behaviour (can vary wildly depending on the tech used, but is always a linear bleed, less distracting than the equivalent amount of active crosstalk, there is no overdrive negative ghosting)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote="Quantummagic"][quote="D-Man11"]Something to keep in mind, is that Nvidia does allow 3D surround using 2 displays now, instead of the previously required 3. Requires Maxwell and newer GPUs.
Several posters here have dual active projectors for Simulator cockpits using warpalizer software. See those threads for more info.[/quote]
Wow sounds interesting,..will try to find something about it.
I will start with Monitor first PG278QR and later probably upgrade to projector.
Big room, painted already in grey with 4m Wall, shaped like a cinema :))
Active dual projector sounds easier, then all this geobox/filters stuff.[/quote]
Are you second quessing your choise to go monitor route ?
D-Man11 said:Something to keep in mind, is that Nvidia does allow 3D surround using 2 displays now, instead of the previously required 3. Requires Maxwell and newer GPUs.
Several posters here have dual active projectors for Simulator cockpits using warpalizer software. See those threads for more info.
Wow sounds interesting,..will try to find something about it.
I will start with Monitor first PG278QR and later probably upgrade to projector.
Big room, painted already in grey with 4m Wall, shaped like a cinema :))
Active dual projector sounds easier, then all this geobox/filters stuff.
Are you second quessing your choise to go monitor route ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
1. Pardon the ignorance gentlemen, but would you kindly explain to a dual projector layman whether a dual 4k@60Hz projector might be supported by 3D Vision? Presumably it shall require an inf hack?
Not that I could afford something like that or even have it be practical due to the GPU horsepower required, but it would be good to know there are possibilities in the distant future :)
2. Also, when we talk about brightness, are we talking about actual brightness in lumens, or perceived brightness? i.e. our senses work on a logarithmic scale which means that 2x the lumen output will only seem 20% brighter to our eyes.
[img]https://ledshield.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/brightness_perception.png[/img]
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
Comparing this to Dual projector passive:
200% light generated by 2 projectors.
i. Granted, all light is filtered out completely for one projector due to the polarisation filters designed to block one eye/one projector.
ii. What is the penalty for the "non-blocked" light travelling through the unblocked polarisation filter? Presumably this is 50%?
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, but it seems that on average both technologies kill light output to 25% of their original. This would mean that indeed the passive system would output 2x the lumen output, but it would only be perceived as being 20% brighter than active systems, which wouldn't be too noticeable.
I believe the merits of the passive setup lies within its versatility and higher resolution scaling far more than in the brightness department, especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups.
I may well be wrong because I have never tried a passive setup - this is all pure educated conjecture :)
1. Pardon the ignorance gentlemen, but would you kindly explain to a dual projector layman whether a dual 4k@60Hz projector might be supported by 3D Vision? Presumably it shall require an inf hack?
Not that I could afford something like that or even have it be practical due to the GPU horsepower required, but it would be good to know there are possibilities in the distant future :)
2. Also, when we talk about brightness, are we talking about actual brightness in lumens, or perceived brightness? i.e. our senses work on a logarithmic scale which means that 2x the lumen output will only seem 20% brighter to our eyes.
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
Comparing this to Dual projector passive:
200% light generated by 2 projectors.
i. Granted, all light is filtered out completely for one projector due to the polarisation filters designed to block one eye/one projector.
ii. What is the penalty for the "non-blocked" light travelling through the unblocked polarisation filter? Presumably this is 50%?
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, but it seems that on average both technologies kill light output to 25% of their original. This would mean that indeed the passive system would output 2x the lumen output, but it would only be perceived as being 20% brighter than active systems, which wouldn't be too noticeable.
I believe the merits of the passive setup lies within its versatility and higher resolution scaling far more than in the brightness department, especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups.
I may well be wrong because I have never tried a passive setup - this is all pure educated conjecture :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
[quote="RAGEdemon"]
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
[/quote]
It depends what shades you use. I have two pairs of DLP shades and one pair is darker than the other.
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
It depends what shades you use. I have two pairs of DLP shades and one pair is darker than the other.
[quote="RAGEdemon"]1. Pardon the ignorance gentlemen, but would you kindly explain to a dual projector layman whether a dual 4k@60Hz projector might be supported by 3D Vision? Presumably it shall require an inf hack?
[/quote]
I can envision 3 connection methods. Only the 1st one is currently runnable with my knowlege of currently available hardware though.
1-Direct drive dual outputs (each projector connected directly to the computer)
Software configuration : Nvidia surround or AMD Eyefinity (for frame sync), desktop set to output at 7680x2160x60Hz 3D driver needs to output full-res SBS (tridef can do it, need to try if 3D migoto's scaling mode works for 3D Vision compatibility).
If you hit some frame buffer limit/bug, you could also try 3840x4320x60Hz top/bottom configuration.
No inf hack is required. It would require 2x hdmi2.0 outputs out of the GPU though (or use DisplayPort 1.2 to hdmi2.0 adapters)
2-DisplayPort MST : same configuration as above but through a display hub, it would require DP version 1.3 (or hdmi2.1 equivalent MST). I haven't looked if such devices are available.
3-Frame sequential converter : I am not aware of any such device on the market that supports 4K60, you might want to touch a word to VNS Taiwan if they're interested in making one (they are the ones making my current 1080p frame sequential demultiplexer, they definitely have access to the components required to do it at 4K, but probably not the sales to justify putting it into production though) Inf hack is not mandatory if running 3D Vision driver in generic CRT mode (requires the usb emitter plugged in to unlock this mode)
Output would also require DisplayPort 1.3 (my 1080p demultiplexer only uses DP1.1)
[quote="RAGEdemon"]
2. Also, when we talk about brightness, are we talking about actual brightness in lumens, or perceived brightness? i.e. our senses work on a logarithmic scale which means that 2x the lumen output will only seem 20% brighter to our eyes.
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
Comparing this to Dual projector passive:
200% light generated by 2 projectors.
i. Granted, all light is filtered out completely for one projector due to the polarisation filters designed to block one eye/one projector.
ii. What is the penalty for the "non-blocked" light travelling through the unblocked polarisation filter? Presumably this is 50%?
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, but it seems that on average both technologies kill light output to 25% of their original. This would mean that indeed the passive system would output 2x the lumen output, but it would only be perceived as being 20% brighter than active systems, which wouldn't be too noticeable.
I believe the merits of the passive setup lies within its versatility and higher resolution scaling far more than in the brightness department, especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups.
I may well be wrong because I have never tried a passive setup - this is all pure educated conjecture :)
[/quote]
We're talking lumens... (actually measurable... note : I don't have a light-meter).
For active : 25% light remaining (75% blocked) is the theoretical maximum. But you also need to take into account material imperfection and tint because in the real world LCD shutter glasses aren't transparent.
Then depending on the display tech extra dark time to reduce crosstalk (LCD & LCOS), the amount and types of colour wheel segments (DLP)
For dual projectors passive : 50% light remaining is the baseline, not 25%. But that's not the whole story.
-Start at 200% for the pair of projectors
-divide by 2 for each eye = 100% per eye
-divide by 2 for the filters = 50% per eye
That's the common baseline (anaglyph, polarized, Dolby,...)
Not counting the filter's non perfectly transparent for the pass-through light 2x (1x in the projector's filters, and 1x in the viewer's glasses). I believe it's in the 5~10% range losses depending on the quality of the filter. You can do the experiment and stack 2x the same polarizing filter from the Theatre. The light visible but it's very small. (definitely NOT 50%)
However the exact same proportion of light would be cut from the equivalent active LCD shutter glasses (2 layers of polarizing filters per glass), when comparing active to dual-pj you end up with the same losses.
But then there is the dual-projectors polarized trick.
LCD projectors natively output polarized light, so you can use special purpose polarization filters that leverage the polarized light instead of just cutting through it. The exact type you need varies on a projector model basis (old 2D projectors output cross-polarized primary colours so you need Advisol SP/SPAR filters, active 3D projectors typically output same-direction polarization for all primary colours so you need a polarization rotator plate (plus regular filters for clean up).
Not all projectors can be leveraged though : for example if the manufacturer puts a depolarizing filter in the light path.
If you can leverage the polarization, then the filtering loss can be reduced significantly (80% pass through is achievable)
I haven't touched a word on the screen material...
Most people with active 3D projectors use a white wall or a matte white screen with 1.0 gain, because it's simpler and cheaper. (high gain screens are optional)
If you use the polarized route, then you already have a 2.0+ gain non-depolarizing "silver" screen (because that's mandatory)
So in the end, many people complain of 3D being too dark on active projector and require 2500~3000 lumen projectors running in max brightess mode to be truly happy in 3D.
Whereas I'm plenty bright with my (8 years old) 1800 Lumen projectors running in natural colour mode and eco lamp mode (probably actually outputting less than 800 Lumen)
RAGEdemon said:1. Pardon the ignorance gentlemen, but would you kindly explain to a dual projector layman whether a dual 4k@60Hz projector might be supported by 3D Vision? Presumably it shall require an inf hack?
I can envision 3 connection methods. Only the 1st one is currently runnable with my knowlege of currently available hardware though.
1-Direct drive dual outputs (each projector connected directly to the computer)
Software configuration : Nvidia surround or AMD Eyefinity (for frame sync), desktop set to output at 7680x2160x60Hz 3D driver needs to output full-res SBS (tridef can do it, need to try if 3D migoto's scaling mode works for 3D Vision compatibility).
If you hit some frame buffer limit/bug, you could also try 3840x4320x60Hz top/bottom configuration.
No inf hack is required. It would require 2x hdmi2.0 outputs out of the GPU though (or use DisplayPort 1.2 to hdmi2.0 adapters)
2-DisplayPort MST : same configuration as above but through a display hub, it would require DP version 1.3 (or hdmi2.1 equivalent MST). I haven't looked if such devices are available.
3-Frame sequential converter : I am not aware of any such device on the market that supports 4K60, you might want to touch a word to VNS Taiwan if they're interested in making one (they are the ones making my current 1080p frame sequential demultiplexer, they definitely have access to the components required to do it at 4K, but probably not the sales to justify putting it into production though) Inf hack is not mandatory if running 3D Vision driver in generic CRT mode (requires the usb emitter plugged in to unlock this mode)
Output would also require DisplayPort 1.3 (my 1080p demultiplexer only uses DP1.1)
RAGEdemon said:
2. Also, when we talk about brightness, are we talking about actual brightness in lumens, or perceived brightness? i.e. our senses work on a logarithmic scale which means that 2x the lumen output will only seem 20% brighter to our eyes.
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
Comparing this to Dual projector passive:
200% light generated by 2 projectors.
i. Granted, all light is filtered out completely for one projector due to the polarisation filters designed to block one eye/one projector.
ii. What is the penalty for the "non-blocked" light travelling through the unblocked polarisation filter? Presumably this is 50%?
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, but it seems that on average both technologies kill light output to 25% of their original. This would mean that indeed the passive system would output 2x the lumen output, but it would only be perceived as being 20% brighter than active systems, which wouldn't be too noticeable.
I believe the merits of the passive setup lies within its versatility and higher resolution scaling far more than in the brightness department, especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups.
I may well be wrong because I have never tried a passive setup - this is all pure educated conjecture :)
We're talking lumens... (actually measurable... note : I don't have a light-meter).
For active : 25% light remaining (75% blocked) is the theoretical maximum. But you also need to take into account material imperfection and tint because in the real world LCD shutter glasses aren't transparent.
Then depending on the display tech extra dark time to reduce crosstalk (LCD & LCOS), the amount and types of colour wheel segments (DLP)
For dual projectors passive : 50% light remaining is the baseline, not 25%. But that's not the whole story.
-Start at 200% for the pair of projectors
-divide by 2 for each eye = 100% per eye
-divide by 2 for the filters = 50% per eye
That's the common baseline (anaglyph, polarized, Dolby,...)
Not counting the filter's non perfectly transparent for the pass-through light 2x (1x in the projector's filters, and 1x in the viewer's glasses). I believe it's in the 5~10% range losses depending on the quality of the filter. You can do the experiment and stack 2x the same polarizing filter from the Theatre. The light visible but it's very small. (definitely NOT 50%)
However the exact same proportion of light would be cut from the equivalent active LCD shutter glasses (2 layers of polarizing filters per glass), when comparing active to dual-pj you end up with the same losses.
But then there is the dual-projectors polarized trick.
LCD projectors natively output polarized light, so you can use special purpose polarization filters that leverage the polarized light instead of just cutting through it. The exact type you need varies on a projector model basis (old 2D projectors output cross-polarized primary colours so you need Advisol SP/SPAR filters, active 3D projectors typically output same-direction polarization for all primary colours so you need a polarization rotator plate (plus regular filters for clean up).
Not all projectors can be leveraged though : for example if the manufacturer puts a depolarizing filter in the light path.
If you can leverage the polarization, then the filtering loss can be reduced significantly (80% pass through is achievable)
I haven't touched a word on the screen material...
Most people with active 3D projectors use a white wall or a matte white screen with 1.0 gain, because it's simpler and cheaper. (high gain screens are optional)
If you use the polarized route, then you already have a 2.0+ gain non-depolarizing "silver" screen (because that's mandatory)
So in the end, many people complain of 3D being too dark on active projector and require 2500~3000 lumen projectors running in max brightess mode to be truly happy in 3D.
Whereas I'm plenty bright with my (8 years old) 1800 Lumen projectors running in natural colour mode and eco lamp mode (probably actually outputting less than 800 Lumen)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]1-Direct drive dual outputs (each projector connected directly to the computer)
Software configuration : Nvidia surround or AMD Eyefinity (for frame sync), desktop set to output at 7680x2160x60Hz 3D driver needs to output full-res SBS (tridef can do it, need to try if 3D migoto's scaling mode works for 3D Vision compatibility).[/quote]
basicly for valid gaming this would mean a Titan volta for starters, i would asume it has a framelock as it´s a work card.
my mitsubishis are rates 1100 lumens and pretty shure its well under calibrated, and they produce plenty of light compared to one of the two run as active.
I have basic calibration hardware, i1pro/i1 display pro, i could measure the lightoutput in some relative numbers but im pretty shure im too lazy to do it, maby some day here.
heh Rage come to finland and i´ll demo you my setup.
"especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups."
I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.
BlackSharkfr said:1-Direct drive dual outputs (each projector connected directly to the computer)
Software configuration : Nvidia surround or AMD Eyefinity (for frame sync), desktop set to output at 7680x2160x60Hz 3D driver needs to output full-res SBS (tridef can do it, need to try if 3D migoto's scaling mode works for 3D Vision compatibility).
basicly for valid gaming this would mean a Titan volta for starters, i would asume it has a framelock as it´s a work card.
my mitsubishis are rates 1100 lumens and pretty shure its well under calibrated, and they produce plenty of light compared to one of the two run as active.
I have basic calibration hardware, i1pro/i1 display pro, i could measure the lightoutput in some relative numbers but im pretty shure im too lazy to do it, maby some day here.
heh Rage come to finland and i´ll demo you my setup.
"especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups."
I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
I haven't tried my GTX 1070 in direct drive dual-output mode.
I wonder if it would frame lock when using Nvidia Surround.
I would need DP->hdmi adapters though (probably active ones) since my old ones were mini-DP (for my old AMD card).
I haven't tried my GTX 1070 in direct drive dual-output mode.
I wonder if it would frame lock when using Nvidia Surround.
I would need DP->hdmi adapters though (probably active ones) since my old ones were mini-DP (for my old AMD card).
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
if i remeber corretly guadro series have only had the framelock feature.
I have couple DP-> hdmi cables that seem to work. Im htpc´ing my blurays as soon as have a chance to try it out.
maby... i like my geobox but it sometimes does wierd shit so im looking for alternative solutions.
if i remeber corretly guadro series have only had the framelock feature.
I have couple DP-> hdmi cables that seem to work. Im htpc´ing my blurays as soon as have a chance to try it out.
maby... i like my geobox but it sometimes does wierd shit so im looking for alternative solutions.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
It's quite difficult to notice a frame missync with bluray content.
Juste panning the camera in a video game usually reveals sync issues immediately.
Altenatively, I like to use Trine 2 as a test scene, just swinging the thief character like a pendulum, you can see the separation of the character changing depending on whether the character is swinging left or swinging right -> revealing any missync.
example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZiDGQuehFg
It's quite difficult to notice a frame missync with bluray content.
Juste panning the camera in a video game usually reveals sync issues immediately.
Altenatively, I like to use Trine 2 as a test scene, just swinging the thief character like a pendulum, you can see the separation of the character changing depending on whether the character is swinging left or swinging right -> revealing any missync.
example
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.[/quote]
Lies, Lies, all Lies :P
Active shutter glasses provide excellent extinction and the flashing is not an issue for 99.999% of the world population.
The biggest benefit of Dual Projection, is the ability to use a 2D projector. Secondly,(which goes hand and hand with the first) is the ability to have more available bandwidth that than a single video connection. Thirdly, the glasses are much cheaper, especially when you are talking theater sized crowds
The huge drawback, is very limited support/requires demuxing hardware in most cases, projector placement in relation to hot spotting, image alignment, needs a special screen if using anything other than Omega Filters, is not very portable/moveable, crosstalk/extinction, twice the cost per frame viewed (electricity/bulb life/PJ life).
Metal-O-Holic said:I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.
Lies, Lies, all Lies :P
Active shutter glasses provide excellent extinction and the flashing is not an issue for 99.999% of the world population.
The biggest benefit of Dual Projection, is the ability to use a 2D projector. Secondly,(which goes hand and hand with the first) is the ability to have more available bandwidth that than a single video connection. Thirdly, the glasses are much cheaper, especially when you are talking theater sized crowds
The huge drawback, is very limited support/requires demuxing hardware in most cases, projector placement in relation to hot spotting, image alignment, needs a special screen if using anything other than Omega Filters, is not very portable/moveable, crosstalk/extinction, twice the cost per frame viewed (electricity/bulb life/PJ life).
Interesting mounting of a 4K Ultra Short Throw Projector
DELL Advanced 4K Laser Projector S718QL
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Dell-S718QL-Advanced-Laser-Projector.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzDfnHVfEdA
You'd need a very heavy desk to avoid any shaking of the image when typing or doing things, the better solution of course, would be to invert it and use a wall mount above you.
You'd need a very heavy desk to avoid any shaking of the image when typing or doing things, the better solution of course, would be to invert it and use a wall mount above you.
So I see people posting that the W1700 is expected to get a firmware update that will support Side by Side. I can't help to think that this is erroneous. AFAIK, additional internal hardware is needed to demux the image into Frame Sequential. So I've no idea how they can implement this. Someone might be in trouble for misleading buyers.
W1700 in Europe (0.47)
HT2550 in the US (0.47)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2929784-benq-w1700-4k-hdr-3d-dlp-projector.html
There were reports of a buzzing noise as well as 3D sync issues, be sure to research, if interested.
So I see people posting that the W1700 is expected to get a firmware update that will support Side by Side. I can't help to think that this is erroneous. AFAIK, additional internal hardware is needed to demux the image into Frame Sequential. So I've no idea how they can implement this. Someone might be in trouble for misleading buyers.
http://www.nthusim.com/
The end of an era: NTHUSIM will be closing.
Dear Simulation Enthusiasts. When NTHUSIM first came onto the scene in 2009, there was nothing like it. We were all searching for something better, something that immersed you in the simulator. At the time, home flight simulators would use a projector on a wall. It just wasn’t real. Virtual Reality was then still a pipe dream.
Today, Virtual Reality is everywhere and what can be done for home simulators is better than we could have imagined back then. This is an exciting time to be alive.
In 2016, PLEXSYS Interface Products acquired NTHUSIM as part of a larger merger. In the restructuring, NTHUSIM will close.
A special thank you to Brad Hawthorne, whose passion is clear to all who know him.
Although NTHUSIM product is no longer available for sale, as a good faith measure, we will provide limited support for existing users through April 2018
This is another option https://fly.elise-ng.net/index.php
They used to have a product called immersive display lite that was reasonably priced, but I do not see it listed and the old link is dead.
http://www.fly.elise-ng.net/immersivedisplaylite2
Youtube and Sim sites would be a good place to look for alternatives.
Check AVS forums for reviews from buyers.
Projector central has posted more reviews http://www.projectorcentral.com/
It seems that 0.47 projectors are 3D Ready, meaning they support Frame Sequential from sources like a PC, but do not support SbS, O&U or Frame Packed.
-> Light output
Passive/Active = glasses technology ONLY
Active means the glasses change state over time such as LCD shutter glasses
Passive means the glasses do not change state over time such as polarized, colour anaglyph, or narrowband colour (Dolby3D, Infitec, Omega Optical)
What you meant with 50% lines resolution is actually about FPR = the technique used by TV manufacturers to produce the polarized image for passive polarized glasses with the same type of panel as 2DTVs. (saving significant amounts of money)
Dual projectors display the full image to each eye, there is no 50% penalty here (there are penalties elsewhere, but as far as projectors go, dual-projectors 3D = 2x brightness over active projectors... can be even brighter (almost 80% of 2D) depending on the details of the tech used, but that's a very specific choice of hardware, which I use)
-> Visual quality
-1080p60 per eye... or higher if you have the money and GPU power for 4K projectors
-Simultaneous display in both eyes = no 3D motion distortion = better quality 3D
-Projectors run in 2D mode : all image processing options of 2D are available, no firmware restrictions = more user choice for picture quality
-Crosstalk behaviour (can vary wildly depending on the tech used, but is always a linear bleed, less distracting than the equivalent amount of active crosstalk, there is no overdrive negative ghosting)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Are you second quessing your choise to go monitor route ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Not that I could afford something like that or even have it be practical due to the GPU horsepower required, but it would be good to know there are possibilities in the distant future :)
2. Also, when we talk about brightness, are we talking about actual brightness in lumens, or perceived brightness? i.e. our senses work on a logarithmic scale which means that 2x the lumen output will only seem 20% brighter to our eyes.
3. In my humble experience, active glasses block out 75% of the light: 50% is blocked out by the polarisation filters, ad a further 50% is blocked out by the LCDs in an active state (each LCD takes 50% time to block out 100% of the light).
Comparing this to Dual projector passive:
200% light generated by 2 projectors.
i. Granted, all light is filtered out completely for one projector due to the polarisation filters designed to block one eye/one projector.
ii. What is the penalty for the "non-blocked" light travelling through the unblocked polarisation filter? Presumably this is 50%?
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, but it seems that on average both technologies kill light output to 25% of their original. This would mean that indeed the passive system would output 2x the lumen output, but it would only be perceived as being 20% brighter than active systems, which wouldn't be too noticeable.
I believe the merits of the passive setup lies within its versatility and higher resolution scaling far more than in the brightness department, especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups.
I may well be wrong because I have never tried a passive setup - this is all pure educated conjecture :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
It depends what shades you use. I have two pairs of DLP shades and one pair is darker than the other.
I can envision 3 connection methods. Only the 1st one is currently runnable with my knowlege of currently available hardware though.
1-Direct drive dual outputs (each projector connected directly to the computer)
Software configuration : Nvidia surround or AMD Eyefinity (for frame sync), desktop set to output at 7680x2160x60Hz 3D driver needs to output full-res SBS (tridef can do it, need to try if 3D migoto's scaling mode works for 3D Vision compatibility).
If you hit some frame buffer limit/bug, you could also try 3840x4320x60Hz top/bottom configuration.
No inf hack is required. It would require 2x hdmi2.0 outputs out of the GPU though (or use DisplayPort 1.2 to hdmi2.0 adapters)
2-DisplayPort MST : same configuration as above but through a display hub, it would require DP version 1.3 (or hdmi2.1 equivalent MST). I haven't looked if such devices are available.
3-Frame sequential converter : I am not aware of any such device on the market that supports 4K60, you might want to touch a word to VNS Taiwan if they're interested in making one (they are the ones making my current 1080p frame sequential demultiplexer, they definitely have access to the components required to do it at 4K, but probably not the sales to justify putting it into production though) Inf hack is not mandatory if running 3D Vision driver in generic CRT mode (requires the usb emitter plugged in to unlock this mode)
Output would also require DisplayPort 1.3 (my 1080p demultiplexer only uses DP1.1)
We're talking lumens... (actually measurable... note : I don't have a light-meter).
For active : 25% light remaining (75% blocked) is the theoretical maximum. But you also need to take into account material imperfection and tint because in the real world LCD shutter glasses aren't transparent.
Then depending on the display tech extra dark time to reduce crosstalk (LCD & LCOS), the amount and types of colour wheel segments (DLP)
For dual projectors passive : 50% light remaining is the baseline, not 25%. But that's not the whole story.
-Start at 200% for the pair of projectors
-divide by 2 for each eye = 100% per eye
-divide by 2 for the filters = 50% per eye
That's the common baseline (anaglyph, polarized, Dolby,...)
Not counting the filter's non perfectly transparent for the pass-through light 2x (1x in the projector's filters, and 1x in the viewer's glasses). I believe it's in the 5~10% range losses depending on the quality of the filter. You can do the experiment and stack 2x the same polarizing filter from the Theatre. The light visible but it's very small. (definitely NOT 50%)
However the exact same proportion of light would be cut from the equivalent active LCD shutter glasses (2 layers of polarizing filters per glass), when comparing active to dual-pj you end up with the same losses.
But then there is the dual-projectors polarized trick.
LCD projectors natively output polarized light, so you can use special purpose polarization filters that leverage the polarized light instead of just cutting through it. The exact type you need varies on a projector model basis (old 2D projectors output cross-polarized primary colours so you need Advisol SP/SPAR filters, active 3D projectors typically output same-direction polarization for all primary colours so you need a polarization rotator plate (plus regular filters for clean up).
Not all projectors can be leveraged though : for example if the manufacturer puts a depolarizing filter in the light path.
If you can leverage the polarization, then the filtering loss can be reduced significantly (80% pass through is achievable)
I haven't touched a word on the screen material...
Most people with active 3D projectors use a white wall or a matte white screen with 1.0 gain, because it's simpler and cheaper. (high gain screens are optional)
If you use the polarized route, then you already have a 2.0+ gain non-depolarizing "silver" screen (because that's mandatory)
So in the end, many people complain of 3D being too dark on active projector and require 2500~3000 lumen projectors running in max brightess mode to be truly happy in 3D.
Whereas I'm plenty bright with my (8 years old) 1800 Lumen projectors running in natural colour mode and eco lamp mode (probably actually outputting less than 800 Lumen)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
basicly for valid gaming this would mean a Titan volta for starters, i would asume it has a framelock as it´s a work card.
my mitsubishis are rates 1100 lumens and pretty shure its well under calibrated, and they produce plenty of light compared to one of the two run as active.
I have basic calibration hardware, i1pro/i1 display pro, i could measure the lightoutput in some relative numbers but im pretty shure im too lazy to do it, maby some day here.
heh Rage come to finland and i´ll demo you my setup.
"especially when taking into account "ghosting" as a disadvantage, as active system ghosting is pretty much non-existent on active DLP setups."
I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
I wonder if it would frame lock when using Nvidia Surround.
I would need DP->hdmi adapters though (probably active ones) since my old ones were mini-DP (for my old AMD card).
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
I have couple DP-> hdmi cables that seem to work. Im htpc´ing my blurays as soon as have a chance to try it out.
maby... i like my geobox but it sometimes does wierd shit so im looking for alternative solutions.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Juste panning the camera in a video game usually reveals sync issues immediately.
Altenatively, I like to use Trine 2 as a test scene, just swinging the thief character like a pendulum, you can see the separation of the character changing depending on whether the character is swinging left or swinging right -> revealing any missync.
example
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Lies, Lies, all Lies :P
Active shutter glasses provide excellent extinction and the flashing is not an issue for 99.999% of the world population.
The biggest benefit of Dual Projection, is the ability to use a 2D projector. Secondly,(which goes hand and hand with the first) is the ability to have more available bandwidth that than a single video connection. Thirdly, the glasses are much cheaper, especially when you are talking theater sized crowds
The huge drawback, is very limited support/requires demuxing hardware in most cases, projector placement in relation to hot spotting, image alignment, needs a special screen if using anything other than Omega Filters, is not very portable/moveable, crosstalk/extinction, twice the cost per frame viewed (electricity/bulb life/PJ life).
DELL Advanced 4K Laser Projector S718QL
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Dell-S718QL-Advanced-Laser-Projector.htm
You'd need a very heavy desk to avoid any shaking of the image when typing or doing things, the better solution of course, would be to invert it and use a wall mount above you.
W1700 in Europe (0.47)
HT2550 in the US (0.47)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2929784-benq-w1700-4k-hdr-3d-dlp-projector.html
There were reports of a buzzing noise as well as 3D sync issues, be sure to research, if interested.
Optoma UHD50 (0.47)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2947088-optoma-uhd50.html
ViewSonic PX727 (0.47)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2947876-viewsonic-px727-4k-4k-hdr-dlp-projector.html
Epson Home Cinema 4000 (3LCD)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2880417-epson-home-cinema-4000-4ke-hdr-projector-debuts.html
Acer H7850 (0.66)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2914288-new-acer-h7850-v7850-4k-pjs.html
Vivitek HK2288 (0.66)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2702097-vivitek-hk2288-real-4k-dlp-home-theater-projector.html
Optoma UHD60 (0.66)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2862202-optoma-uhd60-uhd65-4k-uhd-hdr-dlp-projectors-now-available.html