[solved] Big stutter when using 3D Vision frame sequential output
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Hi, I have a passive dual projector setup and I would like to run it using 3D Vision. I have a converter box that accepts many stereoscopic inputs (hdmi frame packing, side by side @ 3840x1080, or frame sequential 120Hz) through either DVI DL, hdmi or DisplayPort, and converts it to the appropriate signal for the dual projectors. I have used the system fine with AMD HD3D and Tridef, but now I have just upgraded to a brand new Nvidia GPU (GTX 1070) and I would like to use Nvidia's 3D vision drivers. Now I could use 3DTV play, but the low resolution is a major annoyance. So I would like to try and get it to work in frame sequential 1080p120 mode. The converter is currently connected using DisplayPort. The computer is running Windows 10. I used EDIDs from various 3D Vision monitors with embedded emitter in order to bypass the missing pyramid issue (I don't have one). The EDID replacement display is detected, and the 3D Vision Wizard runs through the setup process, but I get issues as soon as I reach the left and right eye geometric shapes test. The geometric shapes are displayed correctly, but I get massive stutter every 1/2 a second and I can't figure out why. The stutter affects the entire computer : I can't click, I can't use the keyboard, I can't even move my mouse. When I use CTRL+T, to deactivate the 3D mode, the display remains at 120Hz in 2D but runs perfectly smoothly. Use CTRL+T again, 3D mode activates and the stutter comes back. I've run the medical test, the 3D test scene, and even some games. When 3D is on, I get stutter (it's unplayable), when 3D is in stand by mode (CTRL+T on/off) it runs smooth. If I use anaglyph mode (3D vision discover), it runs perfectly fine. I tried a bunch of EDIDs from various monitors. I tried modifying the EDIDs to make sure it uses the correct frequencies and timings. I tried reinstalling the nVidia drivers (ticked the box to make a clean re-install). I am running out of ideas.
Hi,
I have a passive dual projector setup and I would like to run it using 3D Vision. I have a converter box that accepts many stereoscopic inputs (hdmi frame packing, side by side @ 3840x1080, or frame sequential 120Hz) through either DVI DL, hdmi or DisplayPort, and converts it to the appropriate signal for the dual projectors.
I have used the system fine with AMD HD3D and Tridef, but now I have just upgraded to a brand new Nvidia GPU (GTX 1070) and I would like to use Nvidia's 3D vision drivers.
Now I could use 3DTV play, but the low resolution is a major annoyance.
So I would like to try and get it to work in frame sequential 1080p120 mode. The converter is currently connected using DisplayPort.
The computer is running Windows 10.

I used EDIDs from various 3D Vision monitors with embedded emitter in order to bypass the missing pyramid issue (I don't have one).
The EDID replacement display is detected, and the 3D Vision Wizard runs through the setup process, but I get issues as soon as I reach the left and right eye geometric shapes test.
The geometric shapes are displayed correctly, but I get massive stutter every 1/2 a second and I can't figure out why.
The stutter affects the entire computer : I can't click, I can't use the keyboard, I can't even move my mouse.
When I use CTRL+T, to deactivate the 3D mode, the display remains at 120Hz in 2D but runs perfectly smoothly.
Use CTRL+T again, 3D mode activates and the stutter comes back.

I've run the medical test, the 3D test scene, and even some games.
When 3D is on, I get stutter (it's unplayable), when 3D is in stand by mode (CTRL+T on/off) it runs smooth.
If I use anaglyph mode (3D vision discover), it runs perfectly fine.

I tried a bunch of EDIDs from various monitors.
I tried modifying the EDIDs to make sure it uses the correct frequencies and timings.
I tried reinstalling the nVidia drivers (ticked the box to make a clean re-install).

I am running out of ideas.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#1
Posted 09/08/2016 11:16 PM   
PM Metalholic (I think I spelled that right) He uses a GeoBox for 3D Vision and is the only one that I know of that posts here. GL edit: I miss-spelled it https://forums.geforce.com/member/2043167/
PM Metalholic (I think I spelled that right)

He uses a GeoBox for 3D Vision and is the only one that I know of that posts here.

GL

edit: I miss-spelled it

https://forums.geforce.com/member/2043167/

#2
Posted 09/09/2016 02:50 AM   
Will do. Thanks.
Will do. Thanks.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#3
Posted 09/09/2016 07:14 AM   
Updating this thread : I bought a 3D Vision kit and plugged the usb "pyramid" IR emitter. This unlocks the 3D Vision Generic CRT mode in the drivers and it now works fine. As an added bonus, there is no need for an EDID overrides from a 3D Vision monitor, I can just use the normal EDID of my device (actually I changed it just a bit to change the default "native" reported resolution from the low compatibiliy 1024x768 of the converter to the actual native 1080p of my projectors). I just need to manually set the refresh rate to 120Hz in games because the Generic CRT mode does allow 60Hz sequential (30Hz per eye) which my converter does not associate with 3D. I now have my projectors running at full 1080p 60Hz per eye both with Tridef and 3D Vision.
Updating this thread :
I bought a 3D Vision kit and plugged the usb "pyramid" IR emitter.
This unlocks the 3D Vision Generic CRT mode in the drivers and it now works fine.
As an added bonus, there is no need for an EDID overrides from a 3D Vision monitor, I can just use the normal EDID of my device (actually I changed it just a bit to change the default "native" reported resolution from the low compatibiliy 1024x768 of the converter to the actual native 1080p of my projectors).

I just need to manually set the refresh rate to 120Hz in games because the Generic CRT mode does allow 60Hz sequential (30Hz per eye) which my converter does not associate with 3D.
I now have my projectors running at full 1080p 60Hz per eye both with Tridef and 3D Vision.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#4
Posted 09/26/2016 09:01 PM   
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]Updating this thread : I changed it just a bit to change the default "native" reported resolution from the low compatibiliy 1024x768 of the converter to the actual native 1080p of my projectors).[/quote] Max accepted resolution of the GeoBox is 1024x768? So you are downsampling 1080?
BlackSharkfr said:Updating this thread :
I changed it just a bit to change the default "native" reported resolution from the low compatibiliy 1024x768 of the converter to the actual native 1080p of my projectors).


Max accepted resolution of the GeoBox is 1024x768?

So you are downsampling 1080?

#5
Posted 09/26/2016 11:20 PM   
N[quote="D-Man11"][quote="BlackSharkfr"]Updating this thread : I changed it just a bit to change the default "native" reported resolution from the low compatibiliy 1024x768 of the converter to the actual native 1080p of my projectors).[/quote] Max accepted resolution of the GeoBox is 1024x768? So you are downsampling 1080?[/quote] No, The Geobox doesn't know what type of projector you are using so it signals a default resolution of 1024x768 in it's EDID for compatibility purposes. And if your projector has a higher resolution you can manually use a higher resolution. This is different from TVs and monitors which report their max resolution as native. On my system the Geobox does full 1920x1080 120Hz sequential, and 3840x1080 60Hz side by side (full ratio) both at their native resolution. I checked with a moire test pattern. The reason why I override the EDID is because the default EDID does not report 1080p 120Hz and 3840x1080 60Hz. And because some apps will detect the default resolution and use it without asking the user. (*wink* 3D Vision Wizard *wink*)
N
D-Man11 said:
BlackSharkfr said:Updating this thread :
I changed it just a bit to change the default "native" reported resolution from the low compatibiliy 1024x768 of the converter to the actual native 1080p of my projectors).


Max accepted resolution of the GeoBox is 1024x768?

So you are downsampling 1080?

No,
The Geobox doesn't know what type of projector you are using so it signals a default resolution of 1024x768 in it's EDID for compatibility purposes. And if your projector has a higher resolution you can manually use a higher resolution.
This is different from TVs and monitors which report their max resolution as native.

On my system the Geobox does full 1920x1080 120Hz sequential, and 3840x1080 60Hz side by side (full ratio) both at their native resolution. I checked with a moire test pattern.

The reason why I override the EDID is because the default EDID does not report 1080p 120Hz and 3840x1080 60Hz.
And because some apps will detect the default resolution and use it without asking the user. (*wink* 3D Vision Wizard *wink*)

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#6
Posted 09/27/2016 11:35 AM   
so everything is working now ? 1080p@120hz -> 1080p@60hz for both left and right projectors. did you test any games ? It´s quite the change gaming 1080p 3d vision with projectors compared to 720p. and all that in passive glory.
so everything is working now ? 1080p@120hz -> 1080p@60hz for both left and right projectors.

did you test any games ?

It´s quite the change gaming 1080p 3d vision with projectors compared to 720p. and all
that in passive glory.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#7
Posted 09/27/2016 12:31 PM   
by the way back in the days i had some problems when i had tridef installed in the same setup with 3d vision. o also have lisence but have not been using it like in years
by the way back in the days i had some problems when i had tridef installed in the same setup with 3d vision. o also have lisence but have not been using it like in years

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#8
Posted 09/27/2016 12:34 PM   
One question about Geobox - can it be used to input 1080p 3d image (120hz, 60hz per eye) and output 1080p 60hz SbS or TaB image to single projector? So basically convert frame sequential 1080p 3d image to side by side image on single projector?
One question about Geobox - can it be used to input 1080p 3d image (120hz, 60hz per eye) and output 1080p 60hz SbS or TaB image to single projector? So basically convert frame sequential 1080p 3d image to side by side image on single projector?

#9
Posted 09/27/2016 12:37 PM   
[quote="vitalijus_b"]One question about Geobox - can it be used to input 1080p 3d image (120hz, 60hz per eye) and output 1080p 60hz SbS or TaB image to single projector? So basically convert frame sequential 1080p 3d image to side by side image on single projector?[/quote] No, the Geobox 501 I have does not have this function. It inputs 3D from a single channel optionally does scaling and outputs dual channel for dual-projector setups. [quote="Metaloholic"]so everything is working now ? 1080p@120hz -> 1080p@60hz for both left and right projectors. did you test any games ? It´s quite the change gaming 1080p 3d vision with projectors compared to 720p. and all that in passive glory. by the way back in the days i had some problems when i had tridef installed in the same setup with 3d vision. o also have lisence but have not been using it like in years[/quote] Yes everything works at full resolution. I can now leverage 3D Vision and the Helix team fixes, not just Tridef. I have never played in 720p. I've been doing full 1080p 60Hz per eye on my dual projectors since 2011 :-) I started with iZ3D with direct dual output connection and my old AMD HD5870, Continued with Tridef still under direct connection with the HD7970 Added HD3D capability and the ability to connect a standalone BluRay player with the Geobox, and now I can use both Tridef and 3D Vision drivers and the GTX1070. So far I have tested : -Warframe : Nvidia 3D has little bit less bugs than Tridef (it actually runs like Tridef used to run 1 year ago, before Digital Extremes upgraded their graphics pipeline) and PhysX particles are properly positioned in 3D (displayed in 2D on Tridef) But I miss the one-eye aiming mode that Tridef has (it makes aiming and menus so much easier to use) and the brightness/contrast settings are completely different between Tridef and 3D Vision. This game's HDR rendering system is all over the place. Many people turn it off to get a more consistent lighting in the game, but when planets line up and the random lighting paramters fall in place, it really looks great. -Abzu : Nvidia 3D has exactly the same bugs as Tridef, but on Tridef the shadows mis-projection is significantly less important than Nvidia. So this game is much more playable with Tridef than with Nvidia's driver. -I still need to try Tomb Raider (2013). I know it has excellent native 3D vision support since I have tested it for about an hour with 3DTV play, but I have not tested it under 3D Vision Generic CRT mode. I have 3D Vision and Tridef installed on the same machine, you just need to make sure that 3D Vision is off when using Tridef, and that you close Steam (or other e-shop app manager in use) when switching back from Tridef to Nvidia's driver otherwise Tridef just keeps running (Tridef does not access the game through the Direct X session like Nvidia does but it accesses it through your instance of the Steam executable. So as long a steam is running Tridef believes you are still playing the game and stays active).
vitalijus_b said:One question about Geobox - can it be used to input 1080p 3d image (120hz, 60hz per eye) and output 1080p 60hz SbS or TaB image to single projector? So basically convert frame sequential 1080p 3d image to side by side image on single projector?

No, the Geobox 501 I have does not have this function.
It inputs 3D from a single channel optionally does scaling and outputs dual channel for dual-projector setups.

Metaloholic said:so everything is working now ? 1080p@120hz -> 1080p@60hz for both left and right projectors.

did you test any games ?

It´s quite the change gaming 1080p 3d vision with projectors compared to 720p. and all
that in passive glory.

by the way back in the days i had some problems when i had tridef installed in the same setup with 3d vision. o also have lisence but have not been using it like in years

Yes everything works at full resolution.
I can now leverage 3D Vision and the Helix team fixes, not just Tridef.

I have never played in 720p. I've been doing full 1080p 60Hz per eye on my dual projectors since 2011 :-)
I started with iZ3D with direct dual output connection and my old AMD HD5870,
Continued with Tridef still under direct connection with the HD7970
Added HD3D capability and the ability to connect a standalone BluRay player with the Geobox,
and now I can use both Tridef and 3D Vision drivers and the GTX1070.

So far I have tested :
-Warframe : Nvidia 3D has little bit less bugs than Tridef (it actually runs like Tridef used to run 1 year ago, before Digital Extremes upgraded their graphics pipeline) and PhysX particles are properly positioned in 3D (displayed in 2D on Tridef)
But I miss the one-eye aiming mode that Tridef has (it makes aiming and menus so much easier to use) and the brightness/contrast settings are completely different between Tridef and 3D Vision. This game's HDR rendering system is all over the place. Many people turn it off to get a more consistent lighting in the game, but when planets line up and the random lighting paramters fall in place, it really looks great.

-Abzu : Nvidia 3D has exactly the same bugs as Tridef, but on Tridef the shadows mis-projection is significantly less important than Nvidia. So this game is much more playable with Tridef than with Nvidia's driver.

-I still need to try Tomb Raider (2013). I know it has excellent native 3D vision support since I have tested it for about an hour with 3DTV play, but I have not tested it under 3D Vision Generic CRT mode.

I have 3D Vision and Tridef installed on the same machine, you just need to make sure that 3D Vision is off when using Tridef, and that you close Steam (or other e-shop app manager in use) when switching back from Tridef to Nvidia's driver otherwise Tridef just keeps running (Tridef does not access the game through the Direct X session like Nvidia does but it accesses it through your instance of the Steam executable. So as long a steam is running Tridef believes you are still playing the game and stays active).

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#10
Posted 09/27/2016 12:59 PM   
yes and am i correct that tridef does not work with any dx11 games ? thats why i ditched it back in the days. As you have goebox i would be interested to know does soma and it´s fix work with you. you propably have more recent geobox than i as i need to use the edid hack.
yes and am i correct that tridef does not work with any dx11 games ?
thats why i ditched it back in the days.

As you have goebox i would be interested to know does soma and it´s fix work with you.
you propably have more recent geobox than i as i need to use the edid hack.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#11
Posted 09/27/2016 02:05 PM   
Warframe and Abzu are DX11 games and I can play them both with Tridef. DX11 support was added in Tridef later than in NVidia's drivers but it's there. However Tridef DX11 has less profile options than DX9 : you can't access the individual projection matrices, so Tridef DX11 only works with "shader-analyser" mode. I do not have the game Soma, but isn't it an OpenGL game ?
Warframe and Abzu are DX11 games and I can play them both with Tridef.
DX11 support was added in Tridef later than in NVidia's drivers but it's there.

However Tridef DX11 has less profile options than DX9 : you can't access the individual projection matrices, so Tridef DX11 only works with "shader-analyser" mode.

I do not have the game Soma, but isn't it an OpenGL game ?

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#12
Posted 09/27/2016 03:33 PM   
Soma is OpenGL and there is already a fix for it.
Soma is OpenGL and there is already a fix for it.

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
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- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#13
Posted 09/27/2016 06:20 PM   
Like helifax said. The fix is great.. Or in my case would have been. Soma is super awsome game. I screamed outloud when running At the bottom of the sea And i played in 2d as the games 3d sync kept breaking with my system, im kind of eded up Thinking my problems with OpenGL games must have Something to do with hacked edids As i also had same problem with my monitor and it also has hacked edid loaded. And No one else reported same problems. But as now you don't use edid hack it. Would be Super if you Are interested in that game and some point buy it and try it with the fix. It's my wet dream to play it again 3d some day :D
Like helifax said.
The fix is great.. Or in my case would have been.
Soma is super awsome game. I screamed outloud when running At the bottom of the sea
And i played in 2d as the games 3d sync kept breaking with my system, im kind of eded up
Thinking my problems with OpenGL games must have Something to do with hacked edids
As i also had same problem with my monitor and it also has hacked edid loaded. And
No one else reported same problems. But as now you don't use edid hack it. Would be
Super if you Are interested in that game and some point buy it and try it with the fix.
It's my wet dream to play it again 3d some day :D

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#14
Posted 09/27/2016 07:05 PM   
I have not tried any OpenGL games with 3D Vision on my system yet. Neither native (Doom BFG) nor through the wrapper (Soma, Doom4, etc...) In the the Doom4 thread, Helifax mentions that for a good result in Doom4 you must be able to maintain a constant 120 Fps. This is probably a hint that the OpenGL wrapper is not designed to maintain the synchronicity of the left/right view pair.
I have not tried any OpenGL games with 3D Vision on my system yet.
Neither native (Doom BFG) nor through the wrapper (Soma, Doom4, etc...)

In the the Doom4 thread, Helifax mentions that for a good result in Doom4 you must be able to maintain a constant 120 Fps.
This is probably a hint that the OpenGL wrapper is not designed to maintain the synchronicity of the left/right view pair.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#15
Posted 09/27/2016 10:28 PM   
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