Info/Guide: How to adjust 100% Depth to equal your IPD
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@TsaebehT. Thank you for the time put into making the tutorial. I have to say, as a projector user, IPD or a bit below is the way to go. As I have an Edid override on my projector the separation I could get was huge and following some "advises" from here I pushed it further and further because I was feeling there is not enough depth. It was actually very wrong. When I reached 100% separation and didn't get the feeling I wanted I started wondering. I am now using 37% because this correlates with my IPD and depth perception is very good. @RageDeamon , I see you very often hijacking other people's threads. Why do you do this? Now ...what should a newcomer understand from this thread?
@TsaebehT. Thank you for the time put into making the tutorial.
I have to say, as a projector user, IPD or a bit below is the way to go. As I have an Edid override on my projector the separation I could get was huge and following some "advises" from here I pushed it further and further because I was feeling there is not enough depth. It was actually very wrong.
When I reached 100% separation and didn't get the feeling I wanted I started wondering. I am now using 37% because this correlates with my IPD and depth perception is very good.

@RageDeamon , I see you very often hijacking other people's threads. Why do you do this?
Now ...what should a newcomer understand from this thread?

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#16
Posted 01/29/2017 06:51 AM   
Well I came up with a 64" earlier and the separation was about 2".. I am currently at 50" this should be really close to 3" IDP.. ;)
Well I came up with a 64" earlier and the separation was about 2".. I am currently at 50" this should be really close to 3" IDP.. ;)

Intel i5 7600K @ 4.8ghz / MSI Z270 SLI / Asus 1080GTX - 416.16 / Optoma HD142x Projector / 1 4'x10' Curved Screen PVC / TrackIR / HOTAS Cougar / Cougar MFD's / Track IR / NVidia 3D Vision / Win 10 64bit

#17
Posted 01/29/2017 07:09 AM   
@DarkStarSword - Thanks for the explanation . I'll give it the attention it deserves and do some more experimentation; and as always, am completely open to the possibility that I'm wrong :) One of the reasons I love this place is due to things like this, where we all learn from each other! [quote="joker18"] @RageDeamon , I see you very often hijacking other people's threads. [/quote] @joker18 - Now now, there is really no need to spread lies about others on every other thread just because you have a personal gripe against me; I have always been on topic, sharing my ideas - the definition of a forum ;-) Dictionary definition of Forum: A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. Dictionary definition of Thread Hijacking: A thread hijacking occurs when one or more individuals commenting on the original posting, go off topic, creating a separate conversation. This is rude, and bad internet etiquette. If people want to discuss a different topic, they should start their own thread. Sorry if I may have wounded or embarrassed you elsewhere so much so that you feel the need to become a liar. This is childish behavior, but I guess I should thank you for the entertainment. Stay classy ;)
@DarkStarSword - Thanks for the explanation . I'll give it the attention it deserves and do some more experimentation; and as always, am completely open to the possibility that I'm wrong :)

One of the reasons I love this place is due to things like this, where we all learn from each other!



joker18 said:
@RageDeamon , I see you very often hijacking other people's threads.

@joker18 - Now now, there is really no need to spread lies about others on every other thread just because you have a personal gripe against me; I have always been on topic, sharing my ideas - the definition of a forum ;-)

Dictionary definition of Forum:
A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Dictionary definition of Thread Hijacking:
A thread hijacking occurs when one or more individuals commenting on the original posting, go off topic, creating a separate conversation. This is rude, and bad internet etiquette. If people want to discuss a different topic, they should start their own thread.

Sorry if I may have wounded or embarrassed you elsewhere so much so that you feel the need to become a liar. This is childish behavior, but I guess I should thank you for the entertainment. Stay classy ;)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#18
Posted 01/29/2017 11:48 AM   
Set mine to "$MonitorSize=13" on a 27" monitor. I got used to 70 - 75%. Basically 140% - 150% if "$MonitorSize=27". Which simply means if I used the default separation parameters nVidia provides it would be ± 50% more than usual. Sure most remember when starting with 3D Vision you couldn't play at 100%. Even when I show friends 3d vision every now and then the separation is too much for them at 100%. 3d Vision is based on an illusion and not natural. Light entering the CORNEA gets guided to the MACULA and RETINA. When the light aren't focused on the maculas symmetrically your brain needs to adapt the eye muscles to focus the image. When the depth are too much people complain that they see two images. That is because the light focused on the macula aren't symmetrical. It confuses the brain. That is why I personally believe you need to train your brain to adapt to this unnatural "phenomenon". In theory you are looking at two flat images from a slightly different perspective. (the convergence setting in CP controls this perspective) You need to trick your mind in believing it is 3D. When the images focused on the macula aren't symmetrical your eyes will have to diverge or converge. Naturally your eyes will converge when you spectate things up closely. Diverge naturally doesn't make sense unless you're a fish, bird or chameleon. Thing you have to ask yourself is why couldn't we play games at 100% separation in the beginning? Why did it become possible later. This is why I believe our brains could be trained to adapt to the asymmetrical images "projected" on the macula. I'm used to 150%?? Solely this should be a matter of personal preference because no one are situated at the same distance from their monitors. I believe Rage is right. To get it 100% precise, the distance from the monitor is just as important to the equation as the IPD and screen size is. nVidia had to implement a universal IPD in their calculation that would fit the majority. Your guide is still a more precise solution away from this universal restriction TsaebehT! With the distance away from the screen in the calculation it would be perfect. Personally I don't think your eyes diverge going past your IPD. Light enters the eye parallel. It is focused on the macula which is 5.5 mm (0.22 in) in diameter. Question is what is the diameter of the light being focused on the macula. Is it also 0.22"? Someone should provide hard evidence to rest this disagreement/confusion. As long as you don't start to feel strain on your eyes and get headaches, you didn't have before, it should be okay. When I first started going past my IPD it was exactly the same as when I started using 3d Vision. Every once in a while I bump it up and haven't notice anything strange so far. I will let you guys know when I notice my eyes starting to diverge physically, getting stuck there :P
Set mine to "$MonitorSize=13" on a 27" monitor. I got used to 70 - 75%. Basically 140% - 150% if "$MonitorSize=27". Which simply means if I used the default separation parameters nVidia provides it would be ± 50% more than usual. Sure most remember when starting with 3D Vision you couldn't play at 100%. Even when I show friends 3d vision every now and then the separation is too much for them at 100%. 3d Vision is based on an illusion and not natural.

Light entering the CORNEA gets guided to the MACULA and RETINA. When the light aren't focused on the maculas symmetrically your brain needs to adapt the eye muscles to focus the image. When the depth are too much people complain that they see two images. That is because the light focused on the macula aren't symmetrical. It confuses the brain. That is why I personally believe you need to train your brain to adapt to this unnatural "phenomenon".

In theory you are looking at two flat images from a slightly different perspective. (the convergence setting in CP controls this perspective) You need to trick your mind in believing it is 3D. When the images focused on the macula aren't symmetrical your eyes will have to diverge or converge. Naturally your eyes will converge when you spectate things up closely. Diverge naturally doesn't make sense unless you're a fish, bird or chameleon. Thing you have to ask yourself is why couldn't we play games at 100% separation in the beginning? Why did it become possible later.

This is why I believe our brains could be trained to adapt to the asymmetrical images "projected" on the macula. I'm used to 150%?? Solely this should be a matter of personal preference because no one are situated at the same distance from their monitors. I believe Rage is right. To get it 100% precise, the distance from the monitor is just as important to the equation as the IPD and screen size is. nVidia had to implement a universal IPD in their calculation that would fit the majority. Your guide is still a more precise solution away from this universal restriction TsaebehT! With the distance away from the screen in the calculation it would be perfect.

Personally I don't think your eyes diverge going past your IPD. Light enters the eye parallel. It is focused on the macula which is 5.5 mm (0.22 in) in diameter. Question is what is the diameter of the light being focused on the macula. Is it also 0.22"? Someone should provide hard evidence to rest this disagreement/confusion. As long as you don't start to feel strain on your eyes and get headaches, you didn't have before, it should be okay. When I first started going past my IPD it was exactly the same as when I started using 3d Vision. Every once in a while I bump it up and haven't notice anything strange so far. I will let you guys know when I notice my eyes starting to diverge physically, getting stuck there :P

#19
Posted 01/29/2017 01:42 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"] @joker18 - Now now, there is really no need to spread lies about others on every other thread just because you have a personal gripe against me; I have always been on topic, sharing my ideas - the definition of a forum ;-) Dictionary definition of Forum: A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. Dictionary definition of Thread Hijacking: A thread hijacking occurs when one or more individuals commenting on the original posting, go off topic, creating a separate conversation. This is rude, and bad internet etiquette. If people want to discuss a different topic, they should start their own thread. [/quote] It is nonsense to keep a polemic going on but I will reply shortly to tell you where you are wrong an then I'm going to stop the off-topic. I hope you will understand. when you say "I can do a small guide on how to do it properly" and you do a separate tutorial in someone else thread (that already contains a tutorial) .. this is thread hijacking. I'm not discussing dictionary here. I really don't know if you are doing it intentionally or you just don't realize but you dit it recently to one of D-Man11, TsaebehT, Helifax, mine.. just quoting from memory but there are more cases.
RAGEdemon said:
@joker18 - Now now, there is really no need to spread lies about others on every other thread just because you have a personal gripe against me; I have always been on topic, sharing my ideas - the definition of a forum ;-)

Dictionary definition of Forum:
A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Dictionary definition of Thread Hijacking:
A thread hijacking occurs when one or more individuals commenting on the original posting, go off topic, creating a separate conversation. This is rude, and bad internet etiquette. If people want to discuss a different topic, they should start their own thread.



It is nonsense to keep a polemic going on but I will reply shortly to tell you where you are wrong an then I'm going to stop the off-topic. I hope you will understand.
when you say "I can do a small guide on how to do it properly" and you do a separate tutorial in someone else thread (that already contains a tutorial) .. this is thread hijacking. I'm not discussing dictionary here.

I really don't know if you are doing it intentionally or you just don't realize but you dit it recently to one of D-Man11, TsaebehT, Helifax, mine.. just quoting from memory but there are more cases.

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TV LG OLED65E6V
Windows 10 64bits

#20
Posted 01/29/2017 01:56 PM   
I have experimented with and given thought to what you said DarkStarSword. Your calculation is correct, however, setting the screen to my IPD just doesn't give me the feeling of infinity - increasing the separation to 300mm does. I also don't feel that my eyes are diverging at all at 300mm, granted 2.2 degrees would be difficult to measure accurately. It's strange that theory doesn't seem to agree to practice, at least for me. I am of the opinion that what KoelerMeester said above is correct - over time, the mind has been trained to go beyond the IPD by how the image is focused inside the eye and the minds progressively more trained interpretation of it. He suggests that it does this while still not diverging the eyes. This is fascinating! More study is definitely needed! @joker [quote="joker18"] I'm not discussing dictionary here. [/quote] And now you are arguing with a Dictionary, while previously you were only arguing with yourself! And now you are threatening more off-top posts to prove that I was off-topic. Wow, this is great; thank you for the laughs! :D Regarding your aversion to proofs such as dictionaries, I'll just quote what I said in reply to your previous childish rants ;-) [quote="RAGEdemon"] @Joker, I know you have an aversion to proofs and evidence from some of your other posts (especially if it's your own evidence contradicting your beliefs), so I'll put here exactly what you said to some of us in another thread, so that instead of arguing with me, you can argue with your wise self: [quote="joker18"] You have the impression you hold the truth but you don't and you don't want to let go of it. [/quote] Stay classy ;-) [/quote]
I have experimented with and given thought to what you said DarkStarSword. Your calculation is correct, however, setting the screen to my IPD just doesn't give me the feeling of infinity - increasing the separation to 300mm does. I also don't feel that my eyes are diverging at all at 300mm, granted 2.2 degrees would be difficult to measure accurately.

It's strange that theory doesn't seem to agree to practice, at least for me.

I am of the opinion that what KoelerMeester said above is correct - over time, the mind has been trained to go beyond the IPD by how the image is focused inside the eye and the minds progressively more trained interpretation of it. He suggests that it does this while still not diverging the eyes.

This is fascinating! More study is definitely needed!



@joker
joker18 said:
I'm not discussing dictionary here.

And now you are arguing with a Dictionary, while previously you were only arguing with yourself!
And now you are threatening more off-top posts to prove that I was off-topic. Wow, this is great; thank you for the laughs! :D

Regarding your aversion to proofs such as dictionaries, I'll just quote what I said in reply to your previous childish rants ;-)

RAGEdemon said:
@Joker, I know you have an aversion to proofs and evidence from some of your other posts (especially if it's your own evidence contradicting your beliefs), so I'll put here exactly what you said to some of us in another thread, so that instead of arguing with me, you can argue with your wise self:
joker18 said:
You have the impression you hold the truth but you don't and you don't want to let go of it.

Stay classy ;-)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#21
Posted 01/29/2017 02:23 PM   
Earlier you were worried about 64 'seeming huge' and separation being 'way too much'... [quote="The_Nephilim"]I did that and the final number was this= 64.16666666666667.. this seems huge and I think the speration will be way too much ??[/quote][quote="The_Nephilim"]Well I came up with a 64" earlier and the separation was about 2".. I am currently at 50" this should be really close to 3" IDP.. ;)[/quote]but really 64 wasn't even enough and that you needed an even lower value to get more separation, figures... Lol. When I tried to figure what would happen with a 21:9 ratio screen it wound up having a slightly higher 'base/separation' value than 16:9... the only thing I can think of is that your '80' estimate is a bit off and it's more along the lines of a 59" diagonal screen, that'd give me a 50(.386) MonitorSize using the 21:9 base value... or something else is going on? ...each screen might be getting it's own MonitorSize and it's not spread across the 21:9 aspect ratio? Curious... Edit: I could see if it works using the 4:3 base but I'd need to know the height, I tried with a height of 48"(80diag) and got 60... I'm more just curious as to why it's not falling into a category, perhaps there's overlapping or some other software reporting it differently... Edit: I tried it with a 4:3 base, a 40" height(66.7d) and 3" IPD and got 50.025... not sure if that confirms anything or not...
Earlier you were worried about 64 'seeming huge' and separation being 'way too much'...

The_Nephilim said:I did that and the final number was this= 64.16666666666667.. this seems huge and I think the speration will be way too much ??
The_Nephilim said:Well I came up with a 64" earlier and the separation was about 2".. I am currently at 50" this should be really close to 3" IDP.. ;)
but really 64 wasn't even enough and that you needed an even lower value to get more separation, figures... Lol.

When I tried to figure what would happen with a 21:9 ratio screen it wound up having a slightly higher 'base/separation' value than 16:9... the only thing I can think of is that your '80' estimate is a bit off and it's more along the lines of a 59" diagonal screen, that'd give me a 50(.386) MonitorSize using the 21:9 base value... or something else is going on? ...each screen might be getting it's own MonitorSize and it's not spread across the 21:9 aspect ratio? Curious...

Edit: I could see if it works using the 4:3 base but I'd need to know the height, I tried with a height of 48"(80diag) and got 60... I'm more just curious as to why it's not falling into a category, perhaps there's overlapping or some other software reporting it differently...

Edit: I tried it with a 4:3 base, a 40" height(66.7d) and 3" IPD and got 50.025... not sure if that confirms anything or not...
#22
Posted 01/29/2017 03:31 PM   
Well the 80" was measured with a tape measure so it was not an estimate ;).. here is what I have basically and how it is setup.. I have 2 projectors and a Curved screen that are overlapped by 5". I use nThusim to correct the warp and align the overlap with edge blending.. the Projectors are set at a 4:3 Aspect ratio each but when combined it is 21:9.. the height is 33.5" x 86" = H x W.. now divide 86 / 33.5 it comes out to 2.56 that is the true aspect ratio.. so rounded off is 21:9.. these are all measure with a tape measure and are withing 2" at the most on width.. the diagnol is still about 80" the best I could measure it.. but maybe it does not see the curve?? either way I estimated then went down to get the 3" separation ingame as that is the best for me at my sitting and size of screen.. I think this is really cool and appreciate all the info and help thank you ;)
Well the 80" was measured with a tape measure so it was not an estimate ;).. here is what I have basically and how it is setup..

I have 2 projectors and a Curved screen that are overlapped by 5". I use nThusim to correct the warp and align the overlap with edge blending..

the Projectors are set at a 4:3 Aspect ratio each but when combined it is 21:9.. the height is 33.5" x 86" = H x W.. now divide 86 / 33.5 it comes out to 2.56 that is the true aspect ratio.. so rounded off is 21:9..

these are all measure with a tape measure and are withing 2" at the most on width.. the diagnol is still about 80" the best I could measure it.. but maybe it does not see the curve??

either way I estimated then went down to get the 3" separation ingame as that is the best for me at my sitting and size of screen..

I think this is really cool and appreciate all the info and help thank you ;)

Intel i5 7600K @ 4.8ghz / MSI Z270 SLI / Asus 1080GTX - 416.16 / Optoma HD142x Projector / 1 4'x10' Curved Screen PVC / TrackIR / HOTAS Cougar / Cougar MFD's / Track IR / NVidia 3D Vision / Win 10 64bit

#23
Posted 01/29/2017 06:34 PM   
I find some of this talk about eyes strain somewhat bemusing. Since I started gaming in 3d I now get much less headcahes and my motion sickness problem vanished over night. It makes me wonder how I am going to handle VR It does make me feel I should be trying out this depth hack that I never got around to trying as I was satisfied with the depth at 100%.
I find some of this talk about eyes strain somewhat bemusing. Since I started gaming in 3d I now get much less headcahes and my motion sickness problem vanished over night. It makes me wonder how I am going to handle VR

It does make me feel I should be trying out this depth hack that I never got around to trying as I was satisfied with the depth at 100%.

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#24
Posted 01/30/2017 02:52 AM   
What TsaebehT did here is basically what nVidia should have done in the very beginning of 3D vision. In the setup of 3d vision through the wizard it should have been implemented that you enter your own IPD. His calculation is relevant to your own IPD and screen size. nVidia uses a global IPD that encompass all. Therefore not quite spot on. This calculation in conjunction with his mod is to be safe and precise. But you are not restricted to precision. nVidias auto detection of your screen size calculates a universal distance you sit away from the screen. But just as everyone don't have the same IPD they also don't sit the same distance from their screen. His mod enables you to play outside nVidias supposed boundaries and find your own sweet spot. This depth mod is the next best thing to Helix mod! Leaves a very sweet stimulating taste in the mind. When I first started using it I felt like I have to replay all my golden oldies =D What helps, when starting a gaming session, is to pump it up to some ridiculous depth. Play there for a couple of minutes and gradually lessen till it becomes comfortable. In the beginning 115% seemed to be the max but after a while I realized I could push it even further. Personally 150% seems to really be the limit though. The distance from the screen plays an important role in this setup. I sit so close, my monitor could be regarded as a projector scale wise. But, as I mentioned in the FO4 thread, you need to lower your screen brightness as low as possible when sitting very close. Staring into a light flashing 120 times a second cant be healthy. Even though some of us started at 85hertz on a 19" CRT back in 2006. Who cared, too much fun.. Lets assume the headaches are a result of physical brain exercises XD You will notice it lessens toyification. Objects are much better scaled outside the default 100% boundary. One "side effect" to this mod, Ive noticed and mentioned in an irrelevant thread, is you might lose all your custom saved convergence and depth settings you've saved in/for specific games. (I might be the only one?) Still a very small price..
What TsaebehT did here is basically what nVidia should have done in the very beginning of 3D vision. In the setup of 3d vision through the wizard it should have been implemented that you enter your own IPD. His calculation is relevant to your own IPD and screen size. nVidia uses a global IPD that encompass all. Therefore not quite spot on. This calculation in conjunction with his mod is to be safe and precise.

But you are not restricted to precision. nVidias auto detection of your screen size calculates a universal distance you sit away from the screen. But just as everyone don't have the same IPD they also don't sit the same distance from their screen. His mod enables you to play outside nVidias supposed boundaries and find your own sweet spot.

This depth mod is the next best thing to Helix mod! Leaves a very sweet stimulating taste in the mind. When I first started using it I felt like I have to replay all my golden oldies =D

What helps, when starting a gaming session, is to pump it up to some ridiculous depth. Play there for a couple of minutes and gradually lessen till it becomes comfortable. In the beginning 115% seemed to be the max but after a while I realized I could push it even further. Personally 150% seems to really be the limit though.

The distance from the screen plays an important role in this setup. I sit so close, my monitor could be regarded as a projector scale wise. But, as I mentioned in the FO4 thread, you need to lower your screen brightness as low as possible when sitting very close. Staring into a light flashing 120 times a second cant be healthy. Even though some of us started at 85hertz on a 19" CRT back in 2006. Who cared, too much fun..

Lets assume the headaches are a result of physical brain exercises XD
You will notice it lessens toyification. Objects are much better scaled outside the default 100% boundary.

One "side effect" to this mod, Ive noticed and mentioned in an irrelevant thread, is you might lose all your custom saved convergence and depth settings you've saved in/for specific games. (I might be the only one?) Still a very small price..

#25
Posted 01/30/2017 10:55 AM   
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