Microsoft removes policies from Windows 10 Pro, forces Cortana on users
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Now that more people are locked in to the upgrade, MS has started tightening the screws. http://www.ghacks.net/2016/07/28/microsoft-removes-policies-windows-10-pro/ http://www.pcworld.com/article/3063119/windows/microsoft-locks-down-cortana-blocks-integration-with-other-browsers-search-engines.html
They should rename it to Micro$oft Trojan 10. Free virus for everyone!
They should rename it to Micro$oft Trojan 10. Free virus for everyone!

#2
Posted 07/29/2016 11:02 AM   
Glad I upgraded to WIN10 on a separate SSD. I reverted back to WIN7 and will stay there. I wonder how WIN10 will function when your LAN is disabled. Will it lock up and not function properly and constantly nag that it's not online. When will shit-ro-soft learn to stop ramming unnecessary crap down the throat. Nothing is truly "FREE" in this world and there are going to be major hassles and caveats attached to this so called "FREE" piece of shitware and I fear mods in any form is going to be stifled or restricted. Open source for the personal computer is king and I don't see how anyone can think what MS is doing is a good thing.
Glad I upgraded to WIN10 on a separate SSD. I reverted back to WIN7 and will stay there. I wonder how WIN10 will function when your LAN is disabled. Will it lock up and not function properly and constantly nag that it's not online.

When will shit-ro-soft learn to stop ramming unnecessary crap down the throat. Nothing is truly "FREE" in this world and there are going to be major hassles and caveats attached to this so called "FREE" piece of shitware and I fear mods in any form is going to be stifled or restricted. Open source for the personal computer is king and I don't see how anyone can think what MS is doing is a good thing.

#3
Posted 07/29/2016 02:24 PM   
So Win 10 is pretty much a method to bring advertising to the end user and secure revenue for MS, with a free OS on the side :D I wonder if these software lockdowns are related to Pascal only working with build 1151? On my secondary (old, not connected to the internet, test and play with) PC I have tried Win 10 LTSB build 10240 with the latest Nvidia driver and both a 4 and 7 series GPU. Boots real fast for a 5400 RPM drive and the GPUs run fine - but apparently this wont work with Pascal, which makes no logical sense to me - the only reason I can think of is that MS is saying if you want to use the latest GPU tech, you need to have our current build which forces you into putting up with out advertising partnerships.
So Win 10 is pretty much a method to bring advertising to the end user and secure revenue for MS, with a free OS on the side :D

I wonder if these software lockdowns are related to Pascal only working with build 1151?

On my secondary (old, not connected to the internet, test and play with) PC I have tried Win 10 LTSB build 10240 with the latest Nvidia driver and both a 4 and 7 series GPU. Boots real fast for a 5400 RPM drive and the GPUs run fine - but apparently this wont work with Pascal, which makes no logical sense to me - the only reason I can think of is that MS is saying if you want to use the latest GPU tech, you need to have our current build which forces you into putting up with out advertising partnerships.

#4
Posted 07/29/2016 03:24 PM   
Windows 20 will requires biometric/cybernetic combined user integrated chips. Ghost in the Shell becomes reality. Fear the Puppet Master.
Windows 20 will requires biometric/cybernetic combined user integrated chips.

Ghost in the Shell becomes reality.

Fear the Puppet Master.

#5
Posted 07/29/2016 04:35 PM   
I officially wish i didn't install Win 10 now. I'm kinda shocked i feel that way. I would go back to Win 7 if could snap my fingers without a doubt. I'm close to being able to get my main desktop back, with a Win 7 install on it and i'm shocked that i am actually glad its on there instead of 10. How does a major company F up so bad? Why do they not improve what they have instead of applying new coats of paint. Speaking of paint, why not improve the super-shitty (relatively speaking) paint.exe program, or the media player, ever heard of scrubbing Microsoft? Why does my telephone's web browser, with 20 tabs open, smoothly scroll webpages filled with hundreds of high resolution images while my desktop broswer chug along like im rendering Crysis in the background? They are now leveraging the AWESOME POWER of solitaire to try and make money, something that was formerly free, something that probably has 500 free mobile apps made for it. I can't F'ing change the position of my email addresses, i can't make the taskbar transparent anymore, i can't choose when i check for updates unless i MANUALLY set each net connection to "metered". EACH ONE, and does this mean that Windows will hammer the F out of fragile coffee shop wifi connections across the globe?
I officially wish i didn't install Win 10 now. I'm kinda shocked i feel that way. I would go back to Win 7 if could snap my fingers without a doubt.

I'm close to being able to get my main desktop back, with a Win 7 install on it and i'm shocked that i am actually glad its on there instead of 10. How does a major company F up so bad? Why do they not improve what they have instead of applying new coats of paint. Speaking of paint, why not improve the super-shitty (relatively speaking) paint.exe program, or the media player, ever heard of scrubbing Microsoft? Why does my telephone's web browser, with 20 tabs open, smoothly scroll webpages filled with hundreds of high resolution images while my desktop broswer chug along like im rendering Crysis in the background?

They are now leveraging the AWESOME POWER of solitaire to try and make money, something that was formerly free, something that probably has 500 free mobile apps made for it.

I can't F'ing change the position of my email addresses, i can't make the taskbar transparent anymore, i can't choose when i check for updates unless i MANUALLY set each net connection to "metered". EACH ONE, and does this mean that Windows will hammer the F out of fragile coffee shop wifi connections across the globe?

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#6
Posted 07/29/2016 08:11 PM   
The Cortana one was not a surprise to me, because they have a keen need to force you to Bing. Removing the group policy functions for Education SKUs is really troubling. It seems like the lesson that Microsoft learned from the backlash to Windows 8, was not that they should pay attention to their customers, it's that they should make their anti-consumer moves slowly and deliberately instead. Piecemeal, and the outrage dies down after each. I really thought that Tim Sweeney was engaging in serious hyperbole to talk about Microsoft poisoning Steam over time. But, now it doesn't seem nearly as far fetched. One thing is extremely clear- Microsoft has never understood PC gaming, and has never understood how much they benefit from it being the de-facto gaming platform.
The Cortana one was not a surprise to me, because they have a keen need to force you to Bing.

Removing the group policy functions for Education SKUs is really troubling.

It seems like the lesson that Microsoft learned from the backlash to Windows 8, was not that they should pay attention to their customers, it's that they should make their anti-consumer moves slowly and deliberately instead. Piecemeal, and the outrage dies down after each.


I really thought that Tim Sweeney was engaging in serious hyperbole to talk about Microsoft poisoning Steam over time. But, now it doesn't seem nearly as far fetched.

One thing is extremely clear- Microsoft has never understood PC gaming, and has never understood how much they benefit from it being the de-facto gaming platform.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
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#7
Posted 07/30/2016 12:19 AM   
[quote="Libertine"]They are now leveraging the AWESOME POWER of solitaire to try and make money, something that was formerly free, something that probably has 500 free mobile apps made for it.[/quote] Ha ha - I didn't even think about that. MS Solitaire is the most played video game ever - it beats Tetris. You know why? Because it was free! Actually, I'm surprised MS didn't force it to install and offer the back of the cards as advertising space. Best keep quite, might give them ideas.
Libertine said:They are now leveraging the AWESOME POWER of solitaire to try and make money, something that was formerly free, something that probably has 500 free mobile apps made for it.


Ha ha - I didn't even think about that.

MS Solitaire is the most played video game ever - it beats Tetris. You know why? Because it was free!

Actually, I'm surprised MS didn't force it to install and offer the back of the cards as advertising space. Best keep quite, might give them ideas.

#8
Posted 07/30/2016 12:19 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]One thing is extremely clear- Microsoft has never understood PC gaming, and has never understood how much they benefit from it being the de-facto gaming platform.[/quote] Perhaps they understand but are deluded into thinking they can control it regardless? The sole reason I have returned to gaming on PC above console is the freedom to play the games how I want. Install the fantastic stereoscopic fixes you guys release, for instance. If MS takes that away, there is no reason for me not to go back to the Playstation.
bo3b said:One thing is extremely clear- Microsoft has never understood PC gaming, and has never understood how much they benefit from it being the de-facto gaming platform.


Perhaps they understand but are deluded into thinking they can control it regardless?

The sole reason I have returned to gaming on PC above console is the freedom to play the games how I want. Install the fantastic stereoscopic fixes you guys release, for instance. If MS takes that away, there is no reason for me not to go back to the Playstation.

#9
Posted 07/30/2016 12:25 AM   
The only reason to upgrade is DX12, which not many games support right now. We will have to upgrade eventually, but perhaps we can give them the finger by using Win10 Enterprise [wink] together with the various privacy invasion blockers for windows 10...
The only reason to upgrade is DX12, which not many games support right now. We will have to upgrade eventually, but perhaps we can give them the finger by using Win10 Enterprise [wink] together with the various privacy invasion blockers for windows 10...

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#10
Posted 07/31/2016 12:06 AM   
I think a lot of people updated to Win10 because of the fake promise of DX12. So far, DX12 has put the lie to that whole draw calls theory of performance bottleneck. All the regular games I've seen tested back to back DX11:DX12 show no difference in performance. Even the poster child Ashes of the Singularity shows no value on DX12 for NVidia: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10067/ashes-of-the-singularity-revisited-beta/5 Maybe once drivers and DX12 stabilize they'll close that gap with AMD under DX12, but even as it stands, the absolute performance under DX11 is still nearly as good for NVidia on DX11 with this game. And that was a 980ti. Again, I could really care less about a 10-20% bump in performance in trade for added complexity and problems. If I can get 2x, I'm interested. Even 50% would get my attention. So far it feels like a classic bait and switch. From a 3D Vision perspective, there isn't any value for DX12 yet. And no game developer in their right mind can skip the remaining 45% of users on Win7/8/8.1 where DX12 is not available. Even after the free and new shiny. So for the foreseeable future, there will always be a DX11 path for a game. (even including Ashes) If someone finds a compelling performance or even visual update case for a DX12 game, please let me know.
I think a lot of people updated to Win10 because of the fake promise of DX12.

So far, DX12 has put the lie to that whole draw calls theory of performance bottleneck. All the regular games I've seen tested back to back DX11:DX12 show no difference in performance.

Even the poster child Ashes of the Singularity shows no value on DX12 for NVidia:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10067/ashes-of-the-singularity-revisited-beta/5


Maybe once drivers and DX12 stabilize they'll close that gap with AMD under DX12, but even as it stands, the absolute performance under DX11 is still nearly as good for NVidia on DX11 with this game. And that was a 980ti.

Again, I could really care less about a 10-20% bump in performance in trade for added complexity and problems. If I can get 2x, I'm interested. Even 50% would get my attention.

So far it feels like a classic bait and switch.


From a 3D Vision perspective, there isn't any value for DX12 yet.

And no game developer in their right mind can skip the remaining 45% of users on Win7/8/8.1 where DX12 is not available. Even after the free and new shiny. So for the foreseeable future, there will always be a DX11 path for a game. (even including Ashes)

If someone finds a compelling performance or even visual update case for a DX12 game, please let me know.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#11
Posted 07/31/2016 04:30 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]If someone finds a compelling performance or even visual update case for a DX12 game, please let me know. [/quote] I have none - there isn't even a single MS exclusive game that interests me. I had the same issue with Xbox - I got one of the 360s years back coz my mates said it was the place to game but, unless you are into multiplayer shooters (which I know a lot are) I didn't understand the fuss. [quote="bo3b"]And no game developer in their right mind can skip the remaining 45% of users on Win7/8/8.1 where DX12 is not available. Even after the free and new shiny. So for the foreseeable future, there will always be a DX11 path for a game. (even including Ashes) [/quote] Indeed - and the Win 10/Win 7 Steam race is still very close, there is only a percent or two in it. In general terms, they each represent a third of the Steam user base. What I would love to see is the Win 10 breakdown by version :) I wonder how many gamers are using Enterprise or LTSB because (again generally) PC gamers are savvy enough to have some technical knowledge of how their hardware and software works.
bo3b said:If someone finds a compelling performance or even visual update case for a DX12 game, please let me know.


I have none - there isn't even a single MS exclusive game that interests me. I had the same issue with Xbox - I got one of the 360s years back coz my mates said it was the place to game but, unless you are into multiplayer shooters (which I know a lot are) I didn't understand the fuss.

bo3b said:And no game developer in their right mind can skip the remaining 45% of users on Win7/8/8.1 where DX12 is not available. Even after the free and new shiny. So for the foreseeable future, there will always be a DX11 path for a game. (even including Ashes)


Indeed - and the Win 10/Win 7 Steam race is still very close, there is only a percent or two in it. In general terms, they each represent a third of the Steam user base.

What I would love to see is the Win 10 breakdown by version :) I wonder how many gamers are using Enterprise or LTSB because (again generally) PC gamers are savvy enough to have some technical knowledge of how their hardware and software works.

#12
Posted 07/31/2016 07:49 AM   
Agreed bo3b, although my understanding is a tad different... AFAIK, one has to program with DX12 features in mind from the ground up, to take advantage of the multiple CPU cores available which will no longer bottleneck the GPU and therefore FPS. Current DX12 games only have DX12 support "patched in" - it's not proper support, but a simple marketing stunt to say "look, we support DX12!". This means that they are not real representations of the performance Gains DX12 is capable of. From my experience, except for GTA5 and BF4, all games still use no more than ~2 cores. Most gaming intel CPUs are 4 cores now, and AMD have 8. This will increase to 6 for intel next year, and up to 32 for the new AMD ZEN. All these games running on DX11 and Patched DX12 will be only utilising a fraction of the computer's power. A couple of years down the line, a lot more people will have been duped into Win10. It will be at this point that demand will increase for properly built DX12 games which take advantage of DX12 features properly, and utilise more system processing power. It's similar to how DX10 was hyped over DX9, and was only available for Windows Vista (and later). At the time, noone wanted to upgrade from Windows XP; but nowadays, so many years later, everyone is on DX10, and the vast majority of games are DX10/11. From what I have read, DX11 > DX12 actually has value over DX9 to DX10. Ashes of the Singularity is a peculiar beast. There is an interesting video on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuea5nt4TnY TL;DW: nVidia hardware has always been efficient due to hardware and driver optimisations, especially in DX11. AMD didn't have these optimisations, but have concentrated the optimisations in DX12. The result is that nVidia cards see a small increase in performance on DX12 so far, whereas AMD will see a much larger increase. This isn't "free" performance. It was always there but AMD cards are just now able to take advantage of it, whereas nVidia have always been able to. To recap: DX12 will probably bring huge improvements (perhaps even your 50%+) when games are specifically developed for DX12 with its available features properly utilised, not just have DX12 superficially "patched in". The largest impact will be CPU limited games such as FO4 and ARMA where currently they get ~40 FPS, which is unacceptable to me when in 2D we have 144FPS monitors, 3D we have 72FPS, or older 120FPS monitors with 3D @ 60FPS, or even Virtual reality at minimum 90FPS. GPUs can be massively parallel, and their performance will likely continue to grow exponentially; but CPUs hit their max ceiling 10 years ago. Even today's latest skylakes are only a few percent faster than a sandy bridge clock for clock, which was made 11 years ago! The future bottlenecks will be CPU, not the GPU - and that's what DX12 is designed to address. http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/16 Win10 + DX12, as with Vista + DX10, will eventually grab such a large share that developers will start developing for DX12 only. Ashes of the Singularity is not a good showcase for DX12. All it shows is that AMD hardware is being properly utilised now compared to before. I'm in the same boat as you - Holding off Win10 as long as I can till there are performance reasons to upgrade. Likely, ~2 years from now.
Agreed bo3b, although my understanding is a tad different...

AFAIK, one has to program with DX12 features in mind from the ground up, to take advantage of the multiple CPU cores available which will no longer bottleneck the GPU and therefore FPS.

Current DX12 games only have DX12 support "patched in" - it's not proper support, but a simple marketing stunt to say "look, we support DX12!". This means that they are not real representations of the performance Gains DX12 is capable of.

From my experience, except for GTA5 and BF4, all games still use no more than ~2 cores. Most gaming intel CPUs are 4 cores now, and AMD have 8. This will increase to 6 for intel next year, and up to 32 for the new AMD ZEN.

All these games running on DX11 and Patched DX12 will be only utilising a fraction of the computer's power.

A couple of years down the line, a lot more people will have been duped into Win10. It will be at this point that demand will increase for properly built DX12 games which take advantage of DX12 features properly, and utilise more system processing power.

It's similar to how DX10 was hyped over DX9, and was only available for Windows Vista (and later). At the time, noone wanted to upgrade from Windows XP; but nowadays, so many years later, everyone is on DX10, and the vast majority of games are DX10/11. From what I have read, DX11 > DX12 actually has value over DX9 to DX10.

Ashes of the Singularity is a peculiar beast.

There is an interesting video on it...



TL;DW: nVidia hardware has always been efficient due to hardware and driver optimisations, especially in DX11. AMD didn't have these optimisations, but have concentrated the optimisations in DX12. The result is that nVidia cards see a small increase in performance on DX12 so far, whereas AMD will see a much larger increase. This isn't "free" performance. It was always there but AMD cards are just now able to take advantage of it, whereas nVidia have always been able to.

To recap:
DX12 will probably bring huge improvements (perhaps even your 50%+) when games are specifically developed for DX12 with its available features properly utilised, not just have DX12 superficially "patched in". The largest impact will be CPU limited games such as FO4 and ARMA where currently they get ~40 FPS, which is unacceptable to me when in 2D we have 144FPS monitors, 3D we have 72FPS, or older 120FPS monitors with 3D @ 60FPS, or even Virtual reality at minimum 90FPS.

GPUs can be massively parallel, and their performance will likely continue to grow exponentially; but CPUs hit their max ceiling 10 years ago. Even today's latest skylakes are only a few percent faster than a sandy bridge clock for clock, which was made 11 years ago! The future bottlenecks will be CPU, not the GPU - and that's what DX12 is designed to address.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/16

Win10 + DX12, as with Vista + DX10, will eventually grab such a large share that developers will start developing for DX12 only.

Ashes of the Singularity is not a good showcase for DX12. All it shows is that AMD hardware is being properly utilised now compared to before.

I'm in the same boat as you - Holding off Win10 as long as I can till there are performance reasons to upgrade. Likely, ~2 years from now.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#13
Posted 07/31/2016 01:50 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]AFAIK, one has to program with DX12 features in mind to take advantage of the multiple CPU cores available which will no longer bottleneck the GPU and therefore FPS.[/quote] This is Vulcan's big claim to fame also, isn't it? The whole reason games have developed with greater GPU than CPU usage is pretty simple way I see it - consumers have been eager to pay for better looking games over the last 2 decades and graphics generally require more parallel arrays (hence GPUs developing faster and becoming more expensive than CPUs). And it's created a kind of unimaginative circle - look at all the big games this E3, they look spectacular but not an original concept among them. So, ultimately, I think that until actual gameplay begins to evolve again, there isn't really as much financial incentive for CPUs to advance - except perhaps the mindless pursuit of resolution (that I personally think is a simple way for display manufacturers to try and make money without genuinely improving visual quality with regards to motion, colours etc) where the CPU can bottleneck the GPU. In short - I don't see how DX12 or Vulcan will improve the current style of games at 1080p.
RAGEdemon said:AFAIK, one has to program with DX12 features in mind to take advantage of the multiple CPU cores available which will no longer bottleneck the GPU and therefore FPS.


This is Vulcan's big claim to fame also, isn't it?

The whole reason games have developed with greater GPU than CPU usage is pretty simple way I see it - consumers have been eager to pay for better looking games over the last 2 decades and graphics generally require more parallel arrays (hence GPUs developing faster and becoming more expensive than CPUs). And it's created a kind of unimaginative circle - look at all the big games this E3, they look spectacular but not an original concept among them.

So, ultimately, I think that until actual gameplay begins to evolve again, there isn't really as much financial incentive for CPUs to advance - except perhaps the mindless pursuit of resolution (that I personally think is a simple way for display manufacturers to try and make money without genuinely improving visual quality with regards to motion, colours etc) where the CPU can bottleneck the GPU.

In short - I don't see how DX12 or Vulcan will improve the current style of games at 1080p.

#14
Posted 07/31/2016 02:44 PM   
Original gameplay isn't CPU-limited. Look at the indie scene - there's a lot of new and interesting ideas coming out of there constantly, and they're rarely based on processing power.
Original gameplay isn't CPU-limited. Look at the indie scene - there's a lot of new and interesting ideas coming out of there constantly, and they're rarely based on processing power.

#15
Posted 07/31/2016 02:48 PM   
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