3D Vision Cpu Core Bottleneck
  10 / 14    
[quote="nimis"]I use too AMD FX83xx series 8 core cpu overclocked to 4.5ghz and 990fxa-ud7 motherboard with Windows7 and I am now scared that if I upgrade to Win10(seems like it is needed if you want to play forza horizon 3) I would have same problems like you have. Right now seems like all works fine with win7.[/quote] Hey... Very interesting. Since you have the same CPU/mobo, if you can run the same test that terintamel has been using, it would really add to the data. Any of these would be really helpful: [quote]6. Here is the list of games that I have issues with and some games other users in this thread have mentioned as well. I hope you see a pattern. Games with performance issues when 3dvision driver is enabled. I have listed the user who reported the problem if it was not me. The ones reported by me all have hard stutter that comes a sudden drop in GPU usage * Witcher 3 - DX11 open world (RAGEdemon) * Just Cause 3 - DX11 open world (bo3b) * Watch Dogs - DX11 open world (CM mode) * Far Cry 3/Blood Dragon - DX11 open world (CM/auto mode) * Arkham Origins - DX11 open world (native 3d) (terintamel, masterotaku, sammy123) * Mirrors Edge Catalyst - DX11 open world (CM mode) (terintamel, seregin)[/quote]
nimis said:I use too AMD FX83xx series 8 core cpu overclocked to 4.5ghz and 990fxa-ud7 motherboard with Windows7 and I am now scared that if I upgrade to Win10(seems like it is needed if you want to play forza horizon 3) I would have same problems like you have. Right now seems like all works fine with win7.

Hey... Very interesting. Since you have the same CPU/mobo, if you can run the same test that terintamel has been using, it would really add to the data.

Any of these would be really helpful:

6. Here is the list of games that I have issues with and some games other users in this thread have mentioned as well. I hope you see a pattern.

Games with performance issues when 3dvision driver is enabled. I have listed the user who reported the problem if it was not me. The ones reported by me all have hard stutter that comes a sudden drop in GPU usage
* Witcher 3 - DX11 open world (RAGEdemon)
* Just Cause 3 - DX11 open world (bo3b)
* Watch Dogs - DX11 open world (CM mode)
* Far Cry 3/Blood Dragon - DX11 open world (CM/auto mode)
* Arkham Origins - DX11 open world (native 3d) (terintamel, masterotaku, sammy123)
* Mirrors Edge Catalyst - DX11 open world (CM mode) (terintamel, seregin)

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
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Posted 09/16/2016 09:21 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"][quote="terintamel"]Also I know @helifax and @bo3b has seen them but @RAGEdemon/@DHR have you seen my videos I posted in the other thread that show what my stutter looks like? I tried my best to capture the stuttering but I was recording with a cell phone in one hand and a gamepad in the other. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4965878/#4965878[/url] Posts 30,36,37.[/quote] I just saw your videos mate. Through all my experiences of building my own systems and doing intricate tests, that's a CPU bottleneck if ever I saw one. 2 games which are extremely heavy on CPU are Fallout 4 and ARMA. I bet these will be a stuttering mess if you load them up. Also, look at what you pasted a few posts prior in that thread, and my calculation/conclusion in GREEN below: 35 FPS 47% GPU usage Core 1 - 55 Core 2 - 40 Core 3 - 49 Core 4 - 39 Core 5 - 30 Core 6 - 19 Core 7 - 16 Core 8 - 60 [color="green"]Average = 38.5% usage per core[/color] Now same except 3d off in game, but still on in drivers 88 FPS 49% GPU usage Core 1 - 60 Core 2 - 62 Core 3 - 59 Core 4 - 53 Core 5 - 48 Core 6 - 32 Core 7 - 32 Core 8 - 80 [color="green"]Average = 53.25% usage per core.[/color] In conclusion, again, you have replicated my results on your system. Your CPU cores stop being utilised properly when 3D Vision is activated, which destroys your FPS. This also manifests itself in lower GPU usage. Remember here that 3D Vision takes 2x the power, so your GPU usage should be double in 3D vision compared to toggled off. It is instead about the same, hence why you are getting half the FPS in 3D vs 2D. I thank you for inadvertently corroborating my results. I know you don't want to hear that we don't know how to fix this issue or whether it is even fixable at all. All we know is that a better IPC is the best that we can aim for at the moment. The tragic long term effect is that this problem will get worse exponentially. So far, PC CPUs have been many times faster than console CPUs, which almost all games are designed for nowadays. This means that PCs have been able to brute force their way past this limit in the past. Unfortunately, IPC has only been going up ~5% every 1.5 years over the last 7 years or so, and CPU speed has been capped at 5GHz for quite some time now. What this means is that newer consoles such as the XBox Scorpio and the PS4 Pro and later gen consoles, will use modern CPUs which will be fast enough to compete with PC CPUs. As time progresses, we will no longer be able to brute force the half core bottleneck. The emergence is now, and it will get exponentially worse from this point onwards. I don't think nVidia will revamp their driver just for us - they already consider 3D Vision legacy. So, what now?[/quote] @RAGEdemon I reread what you posted above and it got me thinking about the new Deus Ex where I just found out my stuttering only happens while 3dVision driver is enabled. I ran a test on the game where I give some info here [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/832496/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-core-bottleneck/post/4976712/#4976712[/url] Since the new Deus Ex is very multithreaded and will utilize at least up to 8 cores, I decided to gather a little more information on this test to see if it falls inline with your findings. I went to the Prague Hub and moved to a large area with good number of NPCs and objects. I then recorded the FPS, GPU usage and Per core usage. 3dVision driver disabled 66fps 70% GPU usage - NO stutter Core 1 - 82 Core 2 - 75 Core 3 - 81 Core 4 - 72 Core 5 - 78 Core 6 - 68 Core 7 - 67 Core 8 - 65 3dVision driver enabled and 3d ON in game 31fps 63% GPU usage - Stutter Core 1 - 81 Core 2 - 53 Core 3 - 72 Core 4 - 43 Core 5 - 59 Core 6 - 40 Core 7 - 62 Core 8 - 26 3dVision driver enabled and 3d OFF in game 62fps 67% GPU usage - Stutter Core 1 - 82 Core 2 - 63 Core 3 - 78 Core 4 - 62 Core 5 - 74 Core 6 - 52 Core 7 - 78 Core 8 - 57 While running through the streets I recorded the average FPS/GPU usage (too hard to remember each core usage) with 3dVision disabled and 3dVision enabled but 3d off in game. Running through streets 3dVision disabled 60-70fps 60-70% GPU 3dvision enabled but 3d off in game 42-55fps 35-45% GPU Is this what you would expect to see based on your tests?
RAGEdemon said:
terintamel said:Also I know @helifax and @bo3b has seen them but @RAGEdemon/@DHR have you seen my videos I posted in the other thread that show what my stutter looks like? I tried my best to capture the stuttering but I was recording with a cell phone in one hand and a gamepad in the other.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4965878/#4965878 Posts 30,36,37.


I just saw your videos mate.

Through all my experiences of building my own systems and doing intricate tests, that's a CPU bottleneck if ever I saw one.

2 games which are extremely heavy on CPU are Fallout 4 and ARMA. I bet these will be a stuttering mess if you load them up.

Also, look at what you pasted a few posts prior in that thread, and my calculation/conclusion in GREEN below:

35 FPS
47% GPU usage
Core 1 - 55
Core 2 - 40
Core 3 - 49
Core 4 - 39
Core 5 - 30
Core 6 - 19
Core 7 - 16
Core 8 - 60

Average = 38.5% usage per core



Now same except 3d off in game, but still on in drivers
88 FPS
49% GPU usage
Core 1 - 60
Core 2 - 62
Core 3 - 59
Core 4 - 53
Core 5 - 48
Core 6 - 32
Core 7 - 32
Core 8 - 80

Average = 53.25% usage per core.


In conclusion, again, you have replicated my results on your system. Your CPU cores stop being utilised properly when 3D Vision is activated, which destroys your FPS. This also manifests itself in lower GPU usage. Remember here that 3D Vision takes 2x the power, so your GPU usage should be double in 3D vision compared to toggled off. It is instead about the same, hence why you are getting half the FPS in 3D vs 2D.

I thank you for inadvertently corroborating my results. I know you don't want to hear that we don't know how to fix this issue or whether it is even fixable at all. All we know is that a better IPC is the best that we can aim for at the moment.

The tragic long term effect is that this problem will get worse exponentially.

So far, PC CPUs have been many times faster than console CPUs, which almost all games are designed for nowadays. This means that PCs have been able to brute force their way past this limit in the past.

Unfortunately, IPC has only been going up ~5% every 1.5 years over the last 7 years or so, and CPU speed has been capped at 5GHz for quite some time now.

What this means is that newer consoles such as the XBox Scorpio and the PS4 Pro and later gen consoles, will use modern CPUs which will be fast enough to compete with PC CPUs.

As time progresses, we will no longer be able to brute force the half core bottleneck. The emergence is now, and it will get exponentially worse from this point onwards. I don't think nVidia will revamp their driver just for us - they already consider 3D Vision legacy.

So, what now?

@RAGEdemon
I reread what you posted above and it got me thinking about the new Deus Ex where I just found out my stuttering only happens while 3dVision driver is enabled. I ran a test on the game where I give some info here https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/832496/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-core-bottleneck/post/4976712/#4976712

Since the new Deus Ex is very multithreaded and will utilize at least up to 8 cores, I decided to gather a little more information on this test to see if it falls inline with your findings. I went to the Prague Hub and moved to a large area with good number of NPCs and objects. I then recorded the FPS, GPU usage and Per core usage.

3dVision driver disabled
66fps 70% GPU usage - NO stutter
Core 1 - 82
Core 2 - 75
Core 3 - 81
Core 4 - 72
Core 5 - 78
Core 6 - 68
Core 7 - 67
Core 8 - 65

3dVision driver enabled and 3d ON in game
31fps 63% GPU usage - Stutter
Core 1 - 81
Core 2 - 53
Core 3 - 72
Core 4 - 43
Core 5 - 59
Core 6 - 40
Core 7 - 62
Core 8 - 26

3dVision driver enabled and 3d OFF in game
62fps 67% GPU usage - Stutter
Core 1 - 82
Core 2 - 63
Core 3 - 78
Core 4 - 62
Core 5 - 74
Core 6 - 52
Core 7 - 78
Core 8 - 57

While running through the streets I recorded the average FPS/GPU usage (too hard to remember each core usage) with 3dVision disabled and 3dVision enabled but 3d off in game.

Running through streets
3dVision disabled
60-70fps 60-70% GPU

3dvision enabled but 3d off in game
42-55fps 35-45% GPU

Is this what you would expect to see based on your tests?

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Windows 10 x64 1709

Posted 09/16/2016 01:02 PM   
@terintamel Don't waste more time doing more and more test.... install win7 (dual boot) and test, if that don't work you can try to OC your CPU (maybe try this previous the win7 install), and if that don't work go and buy an Intel CPU + MB....this will save you a lot of troubles.
@terintamel

Don't waste more time doing more and more test.... install win7 (dual boot) and test, if that don't work you can try to OC your CPU (maybe try this previous the win7 install), and if that don't work go and buy an Intel CPU + MB....this will save you a lot of troubles.

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Posted 09/16/2016 02:33 PM   
[quote="DHR"]@terintamel Don't waste more time doing more and more test.... install win7 (dual boot) and test, if that don't work you can try to OC your CPU (maybe try this previous the win7 install), and if that don't work go and buy an Intel CPU + MB....this will save you a lot of troubles.[/quote] If what RAGEdemon says is true than buying an Intel CPU will not solve the underlying issue of the 3dvision driver screwing up multithreading. Having a CPU with higher IPC might hide the problem better, but I am really sick and tired of everyone's solution being buy an Intel. You are basically telling me to build a whole new system as I would need a new CPU/MB/RAM. So spend over $1000.00 to brute force through a bug or design flaw. That is not a fix. [quote="RAGEdemon"] The tragic long term effect is that this problem will get worse exponentially. So far, PC CPUs have been many times faster than console CPUs, which almost all games are designed for nowadays. This means that PCs have been able to brute force their way past this limit in the past. Unfortunately, IPC has only been going up ~5% every 1.5 years over the last 7 years or so, and CPU speed has been capped at 5GHz for quite some time now. What this means is that newer consoles such as the XBox Scorpio and the PS4 Pro and later gen consoles, will use modern CPUs which will be fast enough to compete with PC CPUs. As time progresses, we will no longer be able to brute force the half core bottleneck. The emergence is now, and it will get exponentially worse from this point onwards. I don't think nVidia will revamp their driver just for us - they already consider 3D Vision legacy. So, what now?[/quote] I am OK with not being able to play certain games in 3d because my system is too slow. However, if there is truly a driver issue I want to work towards fixing it and not working around it. Should the end result be that yes there may be an issue, but Nvidia will not fix it as 3dvision is legacy code, I completely understand. It may be a poor analogy, but say I have an Xbox One and a multiplatform game crashes on the Xbox but does not on the PS4. A possible solution would be to tell me to buy the PS4 and get the game on that platform. I think we both could agree that that is not a practical solution.
DHR said:@terintamel

Don't waste more time doing more and more test.... install win7 (dual boot) and test, if that don't work you can try to OC your CPU (maybe try this previous the win7 install), and if that don't work go and buy an Intel CPU + MB....this will save you a lot of troubles.


If what RAGEdemon says is true than buying an Intel CPU will not solve the underlying issue of the 3dvision driver screwing up multithreading. Having a CPU with higher IPC might hide the problem better, but I am really sick and tired of everyone's solution being buy an Intel.

You are basically telling me to build a whole new system as I would need a new CPU/MB/RAM. So spend over $1000.00 to brute force through a bug or design flaw. That is not a fix.
RAGEdemon said:
The tragic long term effect is that this problem will get worse exponentially.

So far, PC CPUs have been many times faster than console CPUs, which almost all games are designed for nowadays. This means that PCs have been able to brute force their way past this limit in the past.

Unfortunately, IPC has only been going up ~5% every 1.5 years over the last 7 years or so, and CPU speed has been capped at 5GHz for quite some time now.

What this means is that newer consoles such as the XBox Scorpio and the PS4 Pro and later gen consoles, will use modern CPUs which will be fast enough to compete with PC CPUs.

As time progresses, we will no longer be able to brute force the half core bottleneck. The emergence is now, and it will get exponentially worse from this point onwards. I don't think nVidia will revamp their driver just for us - they already consider 3D Vision legacy.

So, what now?

I am OK with not being able to play certain games in 3d because my system is too slow. However, if there is truly a driver issue I want to work towards fixing it and not working around it. Should the end result be that yes there may be an issue, but Nvidia will not fix it as 3dvision is legacy code, I completely understand.


It may be a poor analogy, but say I have an Xbox One and a multiplatform game crashes on the Xbox but does not on the PS4. A possible solution would be to tell me to buy the PS4 and get the game on that platform. I think we both could agree that that is not a practical solution.

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Posted 09/16/2016 02:51 PM   
@terintamel I ran a compatibility lab at a game company out all of the testing I did it was always a clean install then the system drive was imaged before any hardware testing was done I never did a upgrade. I'm not saying this is the problem but to narrow down the problem a clean install should be done.
@terintamel

I ran a compatibility lab at a game company out all of the testing I did it was always a clean install then the system drive was imaged before any hardware testing was done I never did a upgrade. I'm not saying this is the problem but to narrow down the problem a clean install should be done.

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Posted 09/16/2016 02:58 PM   
[quote="zig11727"]@terintamel I ran a compatibility lab at a game company out of the testing I did it was always a clean install then the system drive was imaged before any hardware testing was done I never did a upgrade. I'm not saying this is the problem but to narrow down the problem a clean install should be done. [/quote] Very good suggestion. I used the word upgrade, but my move from Win 8.1 to Win 10 in June of this year was a clean install. I did not do an OS upgrade. I still plan on installing Win 7 as well, I just was doing a few more "quick" tests in the meantime.
zig11727 said:@terintamel

I ran a compatibility lab at a game company out of the testing I did it was always a clean install then the system drive was imaged before any hardware testing was done I never did a upgrade. I'm not saying this is the problem but to narrow down the problem a clean install should be done.


Very good suggestion. I used the word upgrade, but my move from Win 8.1 to Win 10 in June of this year was a clean install. I did not do an OS upgrade.

I still plan on installing Win 7 as well, I just was doing a few more "quick" tests in the meantime.

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Posted 09/16/2016 03:05 PM   
I tell/recommend you to test with win7 and/or OC your CPU and test/compare FIRST. If that don't work you have 2 options: 1) Change your MB+CPU+RAM....because if the others things you try don't work is basically the only thing to try next. 2) Play in 2D or 3D with the games that work ok ($0) This can be a Nvidia driver issue, games engine, both or something else...you will spend a lot of time trying to figure it this out....maybe you never find out what happens and you will have spent a lot of hours of this. And if this is a nvidia driver issue, don't expect will be fixed very soon....you know...is nvidia....this thread is already 1 year old. I think everybody times = MONEY....so if you spend a lot of days, weeks, months...that may be equal to the $1.000....not to mention your wife will be very angry (A happy wife is priceless!)
I tell/recommend you to test with win7 and/or OC your CPU and test/compare FIRST. If that don't work you have 2 options:

1) Change your MB+CPU+RAM....because if the others things you try don't work is basically the only thing to try next.

2) Play in 2D or 3D with the games that work ok ($0)


This can be a Nvidia driver issue, games engine, both or something else...you will spend a lot of time trying to figure it this out....maybe you never find out what happens and you will have spent a lot of hours of this. And if this is a nvidia driver issue, don't expect will be fixed very soon....you know...is nvidia....this thread is already 1 year old.

I think everybody times = MONEY....so if you spend a lot of days, weeks, months...that may be equal to the $1.000....not to mention your wife will be very angry (A happy wife is priceless!)

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Posted 09/16/2016 04:31 PM   
DO NOT THROW HARDWARE AT 3D VISION'S FLAWED OPTIMIZATION! YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED!
DO NOT THROW HARDWARE AT 3D VISION'S FLAWED OPTIMIZATION!

YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED!

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Posted 09/16/2016 04:46 PM   
[quote="terintamel"] 3dVision driver disabled 66fps 70% GPU usage - NO stutter Core 1 - 82 Core 2 - 75 Core 3 - 81 Core 4 - 72 Core 5 - 78 Core 6 - 68 Core 7 - 67 Core 8 - 65 73.5 3dVision driver enabled and 3d ON in game 31fps 63% GPU usage - Stutter Core 1 - 81 Core 2 - 53 Core 3 - 72 Core 4 - 43 Core 5 - 59 Core 6 - 40 Core 7 - 62 Core 8 - 26 [/quote] Average those numbers over the 8 cores to get the CPU utilisation. If #2 is significantly lower utilisation that #1 then the problem has manifested itself. (Hint: It is). Your analogy is invalid on many levels. This seems to be a driver anomaly perhaps related to how 3D Vision works. Even if it was fixable, nVidia have long since abandoned the driver development. We can't reverse engineer the driver in an effort to fix it. The only way to get around the issue is to brute force it. Your CPU is inferior to the latest Intel by an insane margin, hence your lack of performance/'hitches'. Even my 6 core 12 thread xeon overclocked to 4.4GHz is having issues. Within the next year or so when games get developed for XBox Scorpio, PS4 Pro, and other later generations, everybody's 3D Vision systems will be having severe issues, not just yours and mine. This may well be the death knell of 3D Vision. 3DVison is 2x more demanding than non 3D Vision. Look at the specs of most of the regulars here and note the difference between your setup and the rest. A more on-point analogy would be a console gamer annoyed at PC gamers who keep telling him to upgrade to a PC, because he can't get 60fps @ 4k with his console. We are only giving you the options open to you to the best of our knowledge: 1. Go with an Intel high IPC CPU and overclock that thing into oblivion. 2. Ask nVidia to fix the 3D Vision driver. (I believe you have already tried this, and like the rest of us, have learned that nvidia is no longer actively developing the driver). You may be sick and tired of what people tell you, but nvidia nor we nor the world owes you anything. If you don't like the above solutions then there is potentially one more solution: 3. Abandon 3D Vision, and / or follow in the footsteps of Bender and make your own 3D Driver, with blackjack and hookers... :) ¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
terintamel said:
3dVision driver disabled
66fps 70% GPU usage - NO stutter
Core 1 - 82
Core 2 - 75
Core 3 - 81
Core 4 - 72
Core 5 - 78
Core 6 - 68
Core 7 - 67
Core 8 - 65

73.5

3dVision driver enabled and 3d ON in game
31fps 63% GPU usage - Stutter
Core 1 - 81
Core 2 - 53
Core 3 - 72
Core 4 - 43
Core 5 - 59
Core 6 - 40
Core 7 - 62
Core 8 - 26


Average those numbers over the 8 cores to get the CPU utilisation. If #2 is significantly lower utilisation that #1 then the problem has manifested itself. (Hint: It is).

Your analogy is invalid on many levels.

This seems to be a driver anomaly perhaps related to how 3D Vision works. Even if it was fixable, nVidia have long since abandoned the driver development. We can't reverse engineer the driver in an effort to fix it.

The only way to get around the issue is to brute force it. Your CPU is inferior to the latest Intel by an insane margin, hence your lack of performance/'hitches'. Even my 6 core 12 thread xeon overclocked to 4.4GHz is having issues.

Within the next year or so when games get developed for XBox Scorpio, PS4 Pro, and other later generations, everybody's 3D Vision systems will be having severe issues, not just yours and mine. This may well be the death knell of 3D Vision.

3DVison is 2x more demanding than non 3D Vision. Look at the specs of most of the regulars here and note the difference between your setup and the rest. A more on-point analogy would be a console gamer annoyed at PC gamers who keep telling him to upgrade to a PC, because he can't get 60fps @ 4k with his console.

We are only giving you the options open to you to the best of our knowledge:

1. Go with an Intel high IPC CPU and overclock that thing into oblivion.
2. Ask nVidia to fix the 3D Vision driver. (I believe you have already tried this, and like the rest of us, have learned that nvidia is no longer actively developing the driver).

You may be sick and tired of what people tell you, but nvidia nor we nor the world owes you anything. If you don't like the above solutions then there is potentially one more solution:

3. Abandon 3D Vision, and / or follow in the footsteps of Bender and make your own 3D Driver, with blackjack and hookers... :)

¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦

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Posted 09/16/2016 05:57 PM   
There are plenty of user's who run 3D Vision without a hitch. There are games like Just Cause 3 that stutter no matter what CPU or GPU you have when you enable 3D. Again I would do a clean install with Windows 7 and Windows 10 image both after the clean install test both.
There are plenty of user's who run 3D Vision without a hitch. There are games like Just Cause 3 that stutter no matter what CPU or GPU you have when you enable 3D.


Again I would do a clean install with Windows 7 and Windows 10 image both after the clean install test both.

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

Posted 09/16/2016 06:11 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"][quote="terintamel"] 3dVision driver disabled 66fps 70% GPU usage - NO stutter Core 1 - 82 Core 2 - 75 Core 3 - 81 Core 4 - 72 Core 5 - 78 Core 6 - 68 Core 7 - 67 Core 8 - 65 Avg: 73.5 per core 3dVision driver enabled and 3d ON in game 31fps 63% GPU usage - Stutter Core 1 - 81 Core 2 - 53 Core 3 - 72 Core 4 - 43 Core 5 - 59 Core 6 - 40 Core 7 - 62 Core 8 - 26 Avg:54.5 per core [/quote] Average those numbers over the 8 cores to get the CPU utilisation. If #2 is significantly lower utilisation that #1 then the problem has manifested itself. (Hint: It is). This seems to be a driver anomaly perhaps related to how 3D Vision works. Even if it was fixable, nVidia have long since abandoned the driver development. We can't reverse engineer the driver in an effort to fix it. The only way to get around the issue is to brute force it. Your CPU is inferior to the latest Intel by an insane margin, hence your lack of performance/'hitches'. Even my 6 core 12 thread xeon overclocked to 4.4GHz is having issues. Within the next year or so when games get developed for XBox Scorpio, PS4 Pro, and other later generations, everybody's 3D Vision systems will be having severe issues, not just yours and mine. This may well be the death knell of 3D Vision. 3DVison is 2x more demanding than non 3D Vision. [/quote] Thank you. That is exactly what I needed to know. Now that I know how to recognize the 3dvision core limit "bug?" it will better help me identify which games I can run in 3d vision, and which games the core limit is just too much for my CPU to handle and will have to be enjoyed in 2d instead.
RAGEdemon said:
terintamel said:
3dVision driver disabled
66fps 70% GPU usage - NO stutter
Core 1 - 82
Core 2 - 75
Core 3 - 81
Core 4 - 72
Core 5 - 78
Core 6 - 68
Core 7 - 67
Core 8 - 65
Avg: 73.5 per core

3dVision driver enabled and 3d ON in game
31fps 63% GPU usage - Stutter
Core 1 - 81
Core 2 - 53
Core 3 - 72
Core 4 - 43
Core 5 - 59
Core 6 - 40
Core 7 - 62
Core 8 - 26
Avg:54.5 per core


Average those numbers over the 8 cores to get the CPU utilisation. If #2 is significantly lower utilisation that #1 then the problem has manifested itself. (Hint: It is).

This seems to be a driver anomaly perhaps related to how 3D Vision works. Even if it was fixable, nVidia have long since abandoned the driver development. We can't reverse engineer the driver in an effort to fix it.

The only way to get around the issue is to brute force it. Your CPU is inferior to the latest Intel by an insane margin, hence your lack of performance/'hitches'. Even my 6 core 12 thread xeon overclocked to 4.4GHz is having issues.

Within the next year or so when games get developed for XBox Scorpio, PS4 Pro, and other later generations, everybody's 3D Vision systems will be having severe issues, not just yours and mine. This may well be the death knell of 3D Vision. 3DVison is 2x more demanding than non 3D Vision.



Thank you. That is exactly what I needed to know. Now that I know how to recognize the 3dvision core limit "bug?" it will better help me identify which games I can run in 3d vision, and which games the core limit is just too much for my CPU to handle and will have to be enjoyed in 2d instead.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

Posted 09/16/2016 07:20 PM   
Has this 3d vision driver core limit issue always been around or was is it a bug that got introduced in ??? driver version? I ask because I had the exact same hard stutter/low GPU usage issue in Arkham Origins on my 660ti in Win 8.1 on any driver version after 337.88. Any driver 337.88 or older and the game ran perfectly smooth in 3d.
Has this 3d vision driver core limit issue always been around or was is it a bug that got introduced in ??? driver version?

I ask because I had the exact same hard stutter/low GPU usage issue in Arkham Origins on my 660ti in Win 8.1 on any driver version after 337.88. Any driver 337.88 or older and the game ran perfectly smooth in 3d.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

Posted 09/16/2016 08:56 PM   
Unknown, and unverifiable by me as I no longer have cards compatible with older drivers. It's an intriguing question that I have wondered about myself. The first time the community noticed it was when we were trying to work out why the 3D Vision FPS were so bad in GTA5 when it launched.
Unknown, and unverifiable by me as I no longer have cards compatible with older drivers.

It's an intriguing question that I have wondered about myself.

The first time the community noticed it was when we were trying to work out why the 3D Vision FPS were so bad in GTA5 when it launched.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 09/16/2016 09:36 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Unknown, and unverifiable by me as I no longer have cards compatible with older drivers. It's an intriguing question that I have wondered about myself. The first time the community noticed it was when we were trying to work out why the 3D Vision FPS were so bad in GTA5 when it launched.[/quote]Another reason I wish I did not sell my 660ti so quickly. Anyone here with a 6 or 7 series card and win7/8 who could install 337.88 and test CPU load w/3dvision?
RAGEdemon said:Unknown, and unverifiable by me as I no longer have cards compatible with older drivers.

It's an intriguing question that I have wondered about myself.

The first time the community noticed it was when we were trying to work out why the 3D Vision FPS were so bad in GTA5 when it launched.
Another reason I wish I did not sell my 660ti so quickly.

Anyone here with a 6 or 7 series card and win7/8 who could install 337.88 and test CPU load w/3dvision?

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

Posted 09/16/2016 09:59 PM   
Regarding NVidia fixing bugs in the driver, especially for 3D- I do not agree that they won't do anything regarding bugs. As a general rule, they've been responsive to bugs. Take a look at the bugs in the stickied problems post. The first 8 of those have been fixed. It is highly important to *report* these bugs. If they don't know it's a problem, they aren't going to do anything. And the bugs need to be clear, and reproducible. Something like "3D Vision stutters in driver 337.88" is not good enough, that's not something that is clear enough to know how to track it down. Something like "FC3 stutters only when 3D is enabled in driver 337.88 with a 1070 and FX-8530" gives them something they can reproduce and figure out. @terintamel: in particular in your bug report for this problem, be sure to include a reference to this thread, as there is also a lot of great details and differential tests that will like help them figure it out.
Regarding NVidia fixing bugs in the driver, especially for 3D- I do not agree that they won't do anything regarding bugs. As a general rule, they've been responsive to bugs.

Take a look at the bugs in the stickied problems post. The first 8 of those have been fixed.


It is highly important to *report* these bugs. If they don't know it's a problem, they aren't going to do anything.

And the bugs need to be clear, and reproducible. Something like "3D Vision stutters in driver 337.88" is not good enough, that's not something that is clear enough to know how to track it down. Something like "FC3 stutters only when 3D is enabled in driver 337.88 with a 1070 and FX-8530" gives them something they can reproduce and figure out.


@terintamel: in particular in your bug report for this problem, be sure to include a reference to this thread, as there is also a lot of great details and differential tests that will like help them figure it out.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 09/17/2016 12:55 AM   
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