Passive 3D Displays vs. Active 3D Displays Will these make a difference with how 3D Vision will work
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[quote name='relaxman' date='08 March 2012 - 06:53 AM' timestamp='1331186029' post='1380076']
Of course the resolution is half, but it's just the current technology limitation.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. First of all, with active 3D resolution is also halved, just in a different dimension (temporal vs spatial).
Second, LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image, with a 3D interlacing technique. I think support for that is in the firmware of the TV itself so it should work with Nvidia as well.
For details on the whole active vs passive 3D debate, see this blog post I wrote on the topic:
[url="http://stijndewitt.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/active-vs-passive-3d-myth-revisited/"]Active/Passive 3D Myth Revisited[/url]
[quote name='relaxman' date='08 March 2012 - 06:53 AM' timestamp='1331186029' post='1380076']
Of course the resolution is half, but it's just the current technology limitation.
Not necessarily. First of all, with active 3D resolution is also halved, just in a different dimension (temporal vs spatial).
Second, LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image, with a 3D interlacing technique. I think support for that is in the firmware of the TV itself so it should work with Nvidia as well.
For details on the whole active vs passive 3D debate, see this blog post I wrote on the topic:
[quote][b]Main Conclusions[/b]
Based on our extensive lab measurements and visual test comparisons between 3D TVs with FPR Passive Glasses versus 3D TVs with Active Shutter Glasses, we found that the Passive Glasses TVs delivered substantially and demonstrably better all around 3D imaging, 3D Contrast and sense of 3D depth, better 3D sharpness, better overall 3D picture quality, immersion and realism, and freedom from 3D ghosting, image Crosstalk, and flicker. This was true in all but a small number of situations, all of which we document in the sections mentioned above.[/quote]
Based on our extensive lab measurements and visual test comparisons between 3D TVs with FPR Passive Glasses versus 3D TVs with Active Shutter Glasses, we found that the Passive Glasses TVs delivered substantially and demonstrably better all around 3D imaging, 3D Contrast and sense of 3D depth, better 3D sharpness, better overall 3D picture quality, immersion and realism, and freedom from 3D ghosting, image Crosstalk, and flicker. This was true in all but a small number of situations, all of which we document in the sections mentioned above.
[quote name='StijnDeWitt' date='11 March 2012 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1331490919' post='1381375']
LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image[/quote]
This is just marketing bull****.
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
You can try to think about it. Left eye will always see only even lines and right only odd lines. And there is nothink you can do with it. You cant shift polarising mask. So, anythink you can do is interpolate pixels in odd and even lines. Fianly they are messing with resolution, but left eye is geting 540 lines and right eye is getting 540 lines. And this cannot be changed.
[quote name='StijnDeWitt' date='11 March 2012 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1331490919' post='1381375']
LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image
This is just marketing bull****.
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
You can try to think about it. Left eye will always see only even lines and right only odd lines. And there is nothink you can do with it. You cant shift polarising mask. So, anythink you can do is interpolate pixels in odd and even lines. Fianly they are messing with resolution, but left eye is geting 540 lines and right eye is getting 540 lines. And this cannot be changed.
[quote name='davescz' date='11 March 2012 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1331538147' post='1381608']
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
[/quote]
Half resolution has nothing to do with it. What people are confused about is they are seeing the retarder lines coming through adding a "window shade" effect, which is more noticeable at closer distance or on colors that show the retarder lines more. It's not anymore "half resolution" because one eye is seeing 540 than passive is really just 2d because one eye is only seeing 2d.
My apologies for my abruptness. I just felt this was the best way to make my point....
[quote name='davescz' date='11 March 2012 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1331538147' post='1381608']
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
Half resolution has nothing to do with it. What people are confused about is they are seeing the retarder lines coming through adding a "window shade" effect, which is more noticeable at closer distance or on colors that show the retarder lines more. It's not anymore "half resolution" because one eye is seeing 540 than passive is really just 2d because one eye is only seeing 2d.
My apologies for my abruptness. I just felt this was the best way to make my point....
[quote name='relaxman' date='12 March 2012 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1331559642' post='1381693']
We have to wait for the 1920x2160 panels for this.
[/quote]
The retarder lines will still be showing on that resolution. The best thing that will come from higher resolution passive sets, is people will finally start to understand that passive sets limitations is not really about the resolution but how do they go about hiding the retarder lines better.
[quote name='relaxman' date='12 March 2012 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1331559642' post='1381693']
We have to wait for the 1920x2160 panels for this.
The retarder lines will still be showing on that resolution. The best thing that will come from higher resolution passive sets, is people will finally start to understand that passive sets limitations is not really about the resolution but how do they go about hiding the retarder lines better.
Relaxman: I have both TV technologies (active and passive), and my [b]eyes[/b] like and enjoy more Passive one (for movies and games). For about 1 year ago never use again my Samsung Active TV for 3D, only 2D..... Never see half resolution and never see retarded lines in my TV LG 3D Cinema, in fact with the ghosting, crosstalking and flickering with the active shutter, passive is like heaven.....never tested Passive monitors and others brands.
Relaxman: I have both TV technologies (active and passive), and my eyes like and enjoy more Passive one (for movies and games). For about 1 year ago never use again my Samsung Active TV for 3D, only 2D..... Never see half resolution and never see retarded lines in my TV LG 3D Cinema, in fact with the ghosting, crosstalking and flickering with the active shutter, passive is like heaven.....never tested Passive monitors and others brands.
I also like my passive LG Cinema3D TV more, than my 120Hz big picture on the wall.
But i see a 42" model at 3,5m distance. From this, half resolution is not a problem.
In fact i choosed only the 42" model exactly because of not seeing the interleaved lines.
If i go closer, to 2m, i see the lines, and the picture is just not good.
Small text not readable, logos, edges is jagged, etc.
I also had a passive monitor, but that was horrible. From half meter viewing distance, the lines was clearly visible,
even the 2D picture without glasses was not as clear as a regular monitor. (saw the lines)
We also have a dual projector passive system, and this is the best (cheap glasses, full resolution, no flicker)
but at cost: 2 projector and silverscreen. And no 3D vision support :(
I was just pointing out that due to new firmware your eye can not see true 1080 lines on real 540 lines :) Thats it.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
I was just pointing out that due to new firmware your eye can not see true 1080 lines on real 540 lines :) Thats it.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
[quote name='davescz' date='13 March 2012 - 07:38 AM' timestamp='1331624314' post='1382026']
I was just pointing out that due to new firmware your eye can not see true 1080 lines on real 540 lines :) Thats it.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
[/quote]
What you said makes total sense. These are the lines I was talking about when I viewed a 3D movie in my friend's LG LED Cinema TV. Last night I watched a 3D movie, Hugo, and I could see these lines during the presentation. The image was superb, but I still could see the lines and it somehow bothers me.
That's why I like active 3D solution more than passive, because the 3D image is much sharper and realistic in an Active 3D solution like my Samsung C7000 Plasma TV compared to a Passive 3D TV like LG Cinema. I never see any retarder lines...
[quote name='davescz' date='13 March 2012 - 07:38 AM' timestamp='1331624314' post='1382026']
I was just pointing out that due to new firmware your eye can not see true 1080 lines on real 540 lines :) Thats it.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
What you said makes total sense. These are the lines I was talking about when I viewed a 3D movie in my friend's LG LED Cinema TV. Last night I watched a 3D movie, Hugo, and I could see these lines during the presentation. The image was superb, but I still could see the lines and it somehow bothers me.
That's why I like active 3D solution more than passive, because the 3D image is much sharper and realistic in an Active 3D solution like my Samsung C7000 Plasma TV compared to a Passive 3D TV like LG Cinema. I never see any retarder lines...
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The thing I "Hated" with my LG Passive was the lag. Renaming the output helped, but regardless of firmware and tweaks, it was never very good.
Also, the crosstalk was annoying. Turn your head almost completely sideways, you'll see purple areas. Right your head and look at the areas you saw purple, you'll see the crosstalk/ghosting.
The retarder lines never bothered me, it was a 47 inch set.
On a 23 inch passive monitor, I had to keep my head positioned in the sweet spot of the display. The slightest variance from this sweet spot and the ghosting increased dramatically. The 47 inch was much more forgiving, allowing me to relax/slouch quite a bit more.
I now game on a DLP Projector with a 120 inch screen and couldn't be happier. In 3D I get zero crosstalk and pratically zero lag. The only thing that would make it better is a 1080P 3D resolution, 1080P 2D is awesome at 120". There are also projectors that can do 300" screens.
With enough money and the right equipment, you can do a dual projector setup for 1080P Passive. There are a few forum members using this method and they love it.
To learn more about using projectors in a passive 3D setup, read these links.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1299974
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1280393
The thing I "Hated" with my LG Passive was the lag. Renaming the output helped, but regardless of firmware and tweaks, it was never very good.
Also, the crosstalk was annoying. Turn your head almost completely sideways, you'll see purple areas. Right your head and look at the areas you saw purple, you'll see the crosstalk/ghosting.
The retarder lines never bothered me, it was a 47 inch set.
On a 23 inch passive monitor, I had to keep my head positioned in the sweet spot of the display. The slightest variance from this sweet spot and the ghosting increased dramatically. The 47 inch was much more forgiving, allowing me to relax/slouch quite a bit more.
I now game on a DLP Projector with a 120 inch screen and couldn't be happier. In 3D I get zero crosstalk and pratically zero lag. The only thing that would make it better is a 1080P 3D resolution, 1080P 2D is awesome at 120". There are also projectors that can do 300" screens.
With enough money and the right equipment, you can do a dual projector setup for 1080P Passive. There are a few forum members using this method and they love it.
To learn more about using projectors in a passive 3D setup, read these links.
Of course the resolution is half, but it's just the current technology limitation.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. First of all, with active 3D resolution is also halved, just in a different dimension (temporal vs spatial).
Second, LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image, with a 3D interlacing technique. I think support for that is in the firmware of the TV itself so it should work with Nvidia as well.
For details on the whole active vs passive 3D debate, see this blog post I wrote on the topic:
[url="http://stijndewitt.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/active-vs-passive-3d-myth-revisited/"]Active/Passive 3D Myth Revisited[/url]
Of course the resolution is half, but it's just the current technology limitation.
Not necessarily. First of all, with active 3D resolution is also halved, just in a different dimension (temporal vs spatial).
Second, LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image, with a 3D interlacing technique. I think support for that is in the firmware of the TV itself so it should work with Nvidia as well.
For details on the whole active vs passive 3D debate, see this blog post I wrote on the topic:
Active/Passive 3D Myth Revisited
-Stijn
StijnDeWitt.wordpress.com
Sorry, i don't think this is possible.
Sorry, i don't think this is possible.
http://www.lg.com/in/press-release/article/lg-cinema-3d-tv-receives-full-hd-certification.jsp
Article:
http://www.displaymate.com/3D_TV_ShootOut_1.htm
[quote][b]Main Conclusions[/b]
Based on our extensive lab measurements and visual test comparisons between 3D TVs with FPR Passive Glasses versus 3D TVs with Active Shutter Glasses, we found that the Passive Glasses TVs delivered substantially and demonstrably better all around 3D imaging, 3D Contrast and sense of 3D depth, better 3D sharpness, better overall 3D picture quality, immersion and realism, and freedom from 3D ghosting, image Crosstalk, and flicker. This was true in all but a small number of situations, all of which we document in the sections mentioned above.[/quote]
http://www.lg.com/in/press-release/article/lg-cinema-3d-tv-receives-full-hd-certification.jsp
Article:
http://www.displaymate.com/3D_TV_ShootOut_1.htm
MY WEB
Helix Mod - Making 3D Better
My 3D Screenshot Gallery
Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com
LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image[/quote]
This is just marketing bull****.
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
You can try to think about it. Left eye will always see only even lines and right only odd lines. And there is nothink you can do with it. You cant shift polarising mask. So, anythink you can do is interpolate pixels in odd and even lines. Fianly they are messing with resolution, but left eye is geting 540 lines and right eye is getting 540 lines. And this cannot be changed.
LG now has a new firmware for it's passive 3D sets that make sure each eye gets to see all pixels in each image
This is just marketing bull****.
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
You can try to think about it. Left eye will always see only even lines and right only odd lines. And there is nothink you can do with it. You cant shift polarising mask. So, anythink you can do is interpolate pixels in odd and even lines. Fianly they are messing with resolution, but left eye is geting 540 lines and right eye is getting 540 lines. And this cannot be changed.
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
[/quote]
Half resolution has nothing to do with it. What people are confused about is they are seeing the retarder lines coming through adding a "window shade" effect, which is more noticeable at closer distance or on colors that show the retarder lines more. It's not anymore "half resolution" because one eye is seeing 540 than passive is really just 2d because one eye is only seeing 2d.
My apologies for my abruptness. I just felt this was the best way to make my point....
I do have new LG 3D passive technology for one week now. Its half resolution. Most visible it is on bigger areas wit one colour.
Half resolution has nothing to do with it. What people are confused about is they are seeing the retarder lines coming through adding a "window shade" effect, which is more noticeable at closer distance or on colors that show the retarder lines more. It's not anymore "half resolution" because one eye is seeing 540 than passive is really just 2d because one eye is only seeing 2d.
My apologies for my abruptness. I just felt this was the best way to make my point....
"new firmware for each eye gets to see all pixels in each image"
LOL!
We have to wait for the 1920x2160 panels for this.
"new firmware for each eye gets to see all pixels in each image"
LOL!
We have to wait for the 1920x2160 panels for this.
We have to wait for the 1920x2160 panels for this.
[/quote]
The retarder lines will still be showing on that resolution. The best thing that will come from higher resolution passive sets, is people will finally start to understand that passive sets limitations is not really about the resolution but how do they go about hiding the retarder lines better.
We have to wait for the 1920x2160 panels for this.
The retarder lines will still be showing on that resolution. The best thing that will come from higher resolution passive sets, is people will finally start to understand that passive sets limitations is not really about the resolution but how do they go about hiding the retarder lines better.
MY WEB
Helix Mod - Making 3D Better
My 3D Screenshot Gallery
Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com
But i see a 42" model at 3,5m distance. From this, half resolution is not a problem.
In fact i choosed only the 42" model exactly because of not seeing the interleaved lines.
If i go closer, to 2m, i see the lines, and the picture is just not good.
Small text not readable, logos, edges is jagged, etc.
I also had a passive monitor, but that was horrible. From half meter viewing distance, the lines was clearly visible,
even the 2D picture without glasses was not as clear as a regular monitor. (saw the lines)
We also have a dual projector passive system, and this is the best (cheap glasses, full resolution, no flicker)
but at cost: 2 projector and silverscreen. And no 3D vision support :(
But i see a 42" model at 3,5m distance. From this, half resolution is not a problem.
In fact i choosed only the 42" model exactly because of not seeing the interleaved lines.
If i go closer, to 2m, i see the lines, and the picture is just not good.
Small text not readable, logos, edges is jagged, etc.
I also had a passive monitor, but that was horrible. From half meter viewing distance, the lines was clearly visible,
even the 2D picture without glasses was not as clear as a regular monitor. (saw the lines)
We also have a dual projector passive system, and this is the best (cheap glasses, full resolution, no flicker)
but at cost: 2 projector and silverscreen. And no 3D vision support :(
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
I was just pointing out that due to new firmware your eye can not see true 1080 lines on real 540 lines :) Thats it.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
[/quote]
What you said makes total sense. These are the lines I was talking about when I viewed a 3D movie in my friend's LG LED Cinema TV. Last night I watched a 3D movie, Hugo, and I could see these lines during the presentation. The image was superb, but I still could see the lines and it somehow bothers me.
That's why I like active 3D solution more than passive, because the 3D image is much sharper and realistic in an Active 3D solution like my Samsung C7000 Plasma TV compared to a Passive 3D TV like LG Cinema. I never see any retarder lines...
I was just pointing out that due to new firmware your eye can not see true 1080 lines on real 540 lines :) Thats it.
On LG 3D cinema the retarder lines in 2D are no more visible like on the older sets. In 3D, well - they are there. Most visible on one color areas. Thats the limitation of technology and once the 2160i panels will be out, we will have true full 1080p resolution and less visible retarder lines in 3D.
Half resolution - in movie it is less visible, maybe LG does some kind of interpolation for "better resolution" :) But in static picture (photos etc) it is very noticeable, mostly on edges, small texts and so on.
What you said makes total sense. These are the lines I was talking about when I viewed a 3D movie in my friend's LG LED Cinema TV. Last night I watched a 3D movie, Hugo, and I could see these lines during the presentation. The image was superb, but I still could see the lines and it somehow bothers me.
That's why I like active 3D solution more than passive, because the 3D image is much sharper and realistic in an Active 3D solution like my Samsung C7000 Plasma TV compared to a Passive 3D TV like LG Cinema. I never see any retarder lines...
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This is a good article comparing active and passive.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/closer-look-active-vs-passive-3d-flat-panels
This is a good article comparing active and passive.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/closer-look-active-vs-passive-3d-flat-panels
Also, the crosstalk was annoying. Turn your head almost completely sideways, you'll see purple areas. Right your head and look at the areas you saw purple, you'll see the crosstalk/ghosting.
The retarder lines never bothered me, it was a 47 inch set.
On a 23 inch passive monitor, I had to keep my head positioned in the sweet spot of the display. The slightest variance from this sweet spot and the ghosting increased dramatically. The 47 inch was much more forgiving, allowing me to relax/slouch quite a bit more.
I now game on a DLP Projector with a 120 inch screen and couldn't be happier. In 3D I get zero crosstalk and pratically zero lag. The only thing that would make it better is a 1080P 3D resolution, 1080P 2D is awesome at 120". There are also projectors that can do 300" screens.
With enough money and the right equipment, you can do a dual projector setup for 1080P Passive. There are a few forum members using this method and they love it.
To learn more about using projectors in a passive 3D setup, read these links.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1299974
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1280393
Also, the crosstalk was annoying. Turn your head almost completely sideways, you'll see purple areas. Right your head and look at the areas you saw purple, you'll see the crosstalk/ghosting.
The retarder lines never bothered me, it was a 47 inch set.
On a 23 inch passive monitor, I had to keep my head positioned in the sweet spot of the display. The slightest variance from this sweet spot and the ghosting increased dramatically. The 47 inch was much more forgiving, allowing me to relax/slouch quite a bit more.
I now game on a DLP Projector with a 120 inch screen and couldn't be happier. In 3D I get zero crosstalk and pratically zero lag. The only thing that would make it better is a 1080P 3D resolution, 1080P 2D is awesome at 120". There are also projectors that can do 300" screens.
With enough money and the right equipment, you can do a dual projector setup for 1080P Passive. There are a few forum members using this method and they love it.
To learn more about using projectors in a passive 3D setup, read these links.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1299974
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1280393