3D Vision and DLP Projector at 85 Hz Forcing resolution Sharp XR-10X at 85Hz
Hello,

I have a Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector that worked very well with old-school nvidia drivers and 75 and 85 Hz. Just now I have test it with Nvidia 3D vision at 75 Hz and it works ok, but the problem arises when I want to use it at 85 Hz.

With the old school drivers I used to launch the test application and increase frequency with "+" key until I reached 85 Hz, that's all. That doesn't work anymore with 3D vision; it doesn't go over 75 for the projector.

The problem is that the 85 Hz frequency is not listed in control panel, so I can't choose it, but more important, the stereo driver doesn't allow to set it because it is not a recognised frequency for that display, imo.

I am testing in Win7 x64 RC 7100. I tested the Refresh Rate Patcher 1.0.1 (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=88933) but it seems to do nothing at all, so I have tried to lock it with Powerstrip, and indeed it worked: the freq is fixed to 85 Hz, but when I launch the test application there is some desynch between glasses and screen, my guess is that the screen is showing at 85 Hz but the glasses flick at 75 Hz or something similar.

I tested COD2 too, (also with Powerstrip 85 Hz forced) but COD2 allowed me only to choose 75 (the maximum oficial refresh rate of the projector), so I found also the same desynch problem. Maybe I should edit ini files of COD2 in order to force 85 Hz, I dunno if that's possible, though. Nevertheless although that *could* work for COD2 it is not a general/good solution. It should be independent of the game.

I know several people has the sharp XR-10X, and I guess they have 3D Vision. Could someone point me to some clue, solution, please?

Note: First of all I tried to create a custom resolution for 1024x768x85Hz in nvidia control panel, and when it tries to test it, it indeed doesn't say me that it was not able to do, thus it accepts the new resolution and put it in the list. Only the what it has done is to test and put in list the resolution of 1024x768x75Hz !!, instead of the one I wanted to test (85Hz) !!

Thank you
Hello,



I have a Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector that worked very well with old-school nvidia drivers and 75 and 85 Hz. Just now I have test it with Nvidia 3D vision at 75 Hz and it works ok, but the problem arises when I want to use it at 85 Hz.



With the old school drivers I used to launch the test application and increase frequency with "+" key until I reached 85 Hz, that's all. That doesn't work anymore with 3D vision; it doesn't go over 75 for the projector.



The problem is that the 85 Hz frequency is not listed in control panel, so I can't choose it, but more important, the stereo driver doesn't allow to set it because it is not a recognised frequency for that display, imo.



I am testing in Win7 x64 RC 7100. I tested the Refresh Rate Patcher 1.0.1 (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=88933) but it seems to do nothing at all, so I have tried to lock it with Powerstrip, and indeed it worked: the freq is fixed to 85 Hz, but when I launch the test application there is some desynch between glasses and screen, my guess is that the screen is showing at 85 Hz but the glasses flick at 75 Hz or something similar.



I tested COD2 too, (also with Powerstrip 85 Hz forced) but COD2 allowed me only to choose 75 (the maximum oficial refresh rate of the projector), so I found also the same desynch problem. Maybe I should edit ini files of COD2 in order to force 85 Hz, I dunno if that's possible, though. Nevertheless although that *could* work for COD2 it is not a general/good solution. It should be independent of the game.



I know several people has the sharp XR-10X, and I guess they have 3D Vision. Could someone point me to some clue, solution, please?



Note: First of all I tried to create a custom resolution for 1024x768x85Hz in nvidia control panel, and when it tries to test it, it indeed doesn't say me that it was not able to do, thus it accepts the new resolution and put it in the list. Only the what it has done is to test and put in list the resolution of 1024x768x75Hz !!, instead of the one I wanted to test (85Hz) !!



Thank you

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#1
Posted 06/30/2009 07:16 AM   
I anwser myself :rolleyes: .

I made a .inf file (display driver file) for the Sharp XR-10X because it is not provided by Sharp.

[indent][b]1. [/b]So I used RivaTuner to create a .inf file with a range of valid refresh rates from 56 to 120 (instead of the standard 56-76, which limited me to 75Hz max). I put 120, just "to have place to move around".

[b]2.[/b] Then going to device managers, monitors, choosing the sharp display (shown at this stage as something like "standard PnP screen" or similar), go to update driver, "choose from list", "I have disk", and point to the .inf file created before. Now the projector is recognized by its name and more refresh rates are theoretically allowed.

[b]3.[/b] Re-install nvidia forceware drivers. In my case 186.18. I did not uninstall my installed forceware because they were the same (186.18), so I was simply overwritting it. What's the difference then? When it installs it sees the "new" hardware (now the sharp driver -inf file- is installed) and thus the forceware has more info about the recognised modes, so it adapts the valid resolutions according to the data in the installed inf file.

[b]4.[/b] Now the "custom resolution" of nvidia panel will work ok, and allow you to create for example 1024x768 85Hz resolution. So I did, and also I re-create other custom resolutions for 1024x768 60 Hz, 1024x768 70 Hz and 1024x768 75 Hz (because when you add a custom resolution, all other non-custom refresh rates for that resolution disappears, so you have to re-create them, if you want).

[b]5. [/b] All of them, included the 85 Hz works now flawlessly, and they appear in the list of frequencies for the Sharp XR-10X for 1024x768, in the normal "change resolution" menu of NV control panel. The new frequency is even recognized inside games (as COD2, for example)

[b]6. [/b]Now I have to finish the circuit for delay adjustment, and then get zero ghosting in 100" and 3D Vision!

(If only Nvidia could create a profile for IL2 1946 and Silent Hunter III/IV...)[/indent]
Just in case, and to help with the details, I recovered several useful links about that matter. I post them here just in case:

[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t37318.html"]Setting new resolutions[/url]

[url="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/t275422.html"]Setting new refresh rates[/url]

Some EDID links (display data saved in display hardware itself), just in case someone would need it (I did not use it):

[url="http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm"]EDID Viewer[/url]

[url="http://download.microsoft.com/download/a/d/f/adf1347d-08dc-41a4-9084-623b1194d4b2/edid_over.docx"]How to override EDID info with INF file[/url]

[url="http://www.tucows.com/preview/329441"]EDID Editor[/url]

[size=4][b]EDIT:[/b][/size][size=2] Download link for a custom INF File for the Sharp XR-10X with expanded refresh rate range, from 56 to 126 Hz (no success for refresh higher than 85Hz though) [b][url="http://rapidshare.com/files/251558025/sharpXR10X.inf.html"]sharpXR10X.inf[/url][/b][/size]
I anwser myself :rolleyes: .



I made a .inf file (display driver file) for the Sharp XR-10X because it is not provided by Sharp.



[indent]1. So I used RivaTuner to create a .inf file with a range of valid refresh rates from 56 to 120 (instead of the standard 56-76, which limited me to 75Hz max). I put 120, just "to have place to move around".



2. Then going to device managers, monitors, choosing the sharp display (shown at this stage as something like "standard PnP screen" or similar), go to update driver, "choose from list", "I have disk", and point to the .inf file created before. Now the projector is recognized by its name and more refresh rates are theoretically allowed.



3. Re-install nvidia forceware drivers. In my case 186.18. I did not uninstall my installed forceware because they were the same (186.18), so I was simply overwritting it. What's the difference then? When it installs it sees the "new" hardware (now the sharp driver -inf file- is installed) and thus the forceware has more info about the recognised modes, so it adapts the valid resolutions according to the data in the installed inf file.



4. Now the "custom resolution" of nvidia panel will work ok, and allow you to create for example 1024x768 85Hz resolution. So I did, and also I re-create other custom resolutions for 1024x768 60 Hz, 1024x768 70 Hz and 1024x768 75 Hz (because when you add a custom resolution, all other non-custom refresh rates for that resolution disappears, so you have to re-create them, if you want).



5. All of them, included the 85 Hz works now flawlessly, and they appear in the list of frequencies for the Sharp XR-10X for 1024x768, in the normal "change resolution" menu of NV control panel. The new frequency is even recognized inside games (as COD2, for example)



6. Now I have to finish the circuit for delay adjustment, and then get zero ghosting in 100" and 3D Vision!



(If only Nvidia could create a profile for IL2 1946 and Silent Hunter III/IV...)[/indent]

Just in case, and to help with the details, I recovered several useful links about that matter. I post them here just in case:



Setting new resolutions



Setting new refresh rates



Some EDID links (display data saved in display hardware itself), just in case someone would need it (I did not use it):



EDID Viewer



How to override EDID info with INF file



EDID Editor



EDIT: Download link for a custom INF File for the Sharp XR-10X with expanded refresh rate range, from 56 to 126 Hz (no success for refresh higher than 85Hz though) sharpXR10X.inf

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#2
Posted 07/01/2009 06:21 AM   
Hi
It's really exciting to see my xr-10x would work with the 3D vision glasses. I think I am gonna get a pair :)

I have a couple of questions:

Do you need to wear the glasses up side down because of the one frame delay?

what is this "circuit for delay adjustment" thingy. is it the same thing the Chris guy was talking about in the other thread? Can I get good results without it?

thanks for your time!

Cheers
Hi

It's really exciting to see my xr-10x would work with the 3D vision glasses. I think I am gonna get a pair :)



I have a couple of questions:



Do you need to wear the glasses up side down because of the one frame delay?



what is this "circuit for delay adjustment" thingy. is it the same thing the Chris guy was talking about in the other thread? Can I get good results without it?



thanks for your time!



Cheers

#3
Posted 07/03/2009 04:34 PM   
[quote name='efendy' post='561286' date='Jul 3 2009, 06:34 PM']Hi
It's really exciting to see my xr-10x would work with the 3D vision glasses. I think I am gonna get a pair :)

I have a couple of questions:

Do you need to wear the glasses up side down because of the one frame delay?

what is this "circuit for delay adjustment" thingy. is it the same thing the Chris guy was talking about in the other thread? Can I get good results without it?

thanks for your time!

Cheers[/quote]

Yes, you need to wear them upside down if you don't do the circuit. The circuit for delay adjustment, I think it is the same (conceptually only) that you refer to. But my circuit is the one explained by RAGEdemon sometime ago (which was for the edimensional IR o similar) but "upgraded". He explained to me the basic steps some time ago and I am finishing a expanded version which works for both, edimensional (or equivalent) (IR and wired glasses) and for Nvidia 3D Vision.

This circuit is needed to invert the signal (so no more need to wear glasses upside down) and to erradicate ghosting, which is clearly present without it (because of the internal delay of the PJ processing).

It is not expensive at all if you have basic skills for soldering. The components are really cheap. I'm still finishing the final layout of that version, and soon I should have a first build.

NOTE: I have added a download link in the post #2, with a modified .inf file for Sharp XR-10X

Don't hesitate to ask more if you need!
[quote name='efendy' post='561286' date='Jul 3 2009, 06:34 PM']Hi

It's really exciting to see my xr-10x would work with the 3D vision glasses. I think I am gonna get a pair :)



I have a couple of questions:



Do you need to wear the glasses up side down because of the one frame delay?



what is this "circuit for delay adjustment" thingy. is it the same thing the Chris guy was talking about in the other thread? Can I get good results without it?



thanks for your time!



Cheers



Yes, you need to wear them upside down if you don't do the circuit. The circuit for delay adjustment, I think it is the same (conceptually only) that you refer to. But my circuit is the one explained by RAGEdemon sometime ago (which was for the edimensional IR o similar) but "upgraded". He explained to me the basic steps some time ago and I am finishing a expanded version which works for both, edimensional (or equivalent) (IR and wired glasses) and for Nvidia 3D Vision.



This circuit is needed to invert the signal (so no more need to wear glasses upside down) and to erradicate ghosting, which is clearly present without it (because of the internal delay of the PJ processing).



It is not expensive at all if you have basic skills for soldering. The components are really cheap. I'm still finishing the final layout of that version, and soon I should have a first build.



NOTE: I have added a download link in the post #2, with a modified .inf file for Sharp XR-10X



Don't hesitate to ask more if you need!

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#4
Posted 07/03/2009 07:07 PM   
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561330' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:07 AM']Yes, you need to wear them upside down if you don't do the circuit. The circuit for delay adjustment, I think it is the same (conceptually only) that you refer to. But my circuit is the one explained by RAGEdemon sometime ago (which was for the edimensional IR o similar) but "upgraded". He explained to me the basic steps some time ago and I am finishing a expanded version which works for both, edimensional (or equivalent) (IR and wired glasses) and for Nvidia 3D Vision.

This circuit is needed to invert the signal (so no more need to wear glasses upside down) and to erradicate ghosting, which is clearly present without it (because of the internal delay of the PJ processing).

It is not expensive at all if you have basic skills for soldering. The components are really cheap. I'm still finishing the final layout of that version, and soon I should have a first build.

NOTE: I have added a download link in the post #2, with a modified .inf file for Sharp XR-10X

Don't hesitate to ask more if you need![/quote]

Hi
thanks for the quick reply!

I actually have these two pairs of wireless edimensional glasses. I bought them on ebay second hand from US (I am in Australia). I also received a circuit box for delay adjustment (3Dflightsim.com stereo projection converter) but couldnt get it working. Probably it's broken. I am confident with my soldering skills so it shouldnt be very hard for me to make one of them if I could get clear plans (not very good at theory of electronics /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' /> It'd be great if you can share your layout after you successfully built yours!
Also, are you able to use the edim glasses with 3d Vision glasses and/or drivers?
Lastly, thank you very much for the driver for the projector. Sure I'll need that when I hopefully get my 3d vision ones!
thanks
cheers
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561330' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:07 AM']Yes, you need to wear them upside down if you don't do the circuit. The circuit for delay adjustment, I think it is the same (conceptually only) that you refer to. But my circuit is the one explained by RAGEdemon sometime ago (which was for the edimensional IR o similar) but "upgraded". He explained to me the basic steps some time ago and I am finishing a expanded version which works for both, edimensional (or equivalent) (IR and wired glasses) and for Nvidia 3D Vision.



This circuit is needed to invert the signal (so no more need to wear glasses upside down) and to erradicate ghosting, which is clearly present without it (because of the internal delay of the PJ processing).



It is not expensive at all if you have basic skills for soldering. The components are really cheap. I'm still finishing the final layout of that version, and soon I should have a first build.



NOTE: I have added a download link in the post #2, with a modified .inf file for Sharp XR-10X



Don't hesitate to ask more if you need!



Hi

thanks for the quick reply!



I actually have these two pairs of wireless edimensional glasses. I bought them on ebay second hand from US (I am in Australia). I also received a circuit box for delay adjustment (3Dflightsim.com stereo projection converter) but couldnt get it working. Probably it's broken. I am confident with my soldering skills so it shouldnt be very hard for me to make one of them if I could get clear plans (not very good at theory of electronics /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' /> It'd be great if you can share your layout after you successfully built yours!

Also, are you able to use the edim glasses with 3d Vision glasses and/or drivers?

Lastly, thank you very much for the driver for the projector. Sure I'll need that when I hopefully get my 3d vision ones!

thanks

cheers

#5
Posted 07/04/2009 03:08 AM   
Sure, no problem to share the plans when I finish the first device.

For the edim together with 3d vision, for the moment I can't, but they should work together as far as there is no interference with IR signals. I would say that it is highly probably they work together, imo. I'll test and report.
Sure, no problem to share the plans when I finish the first device.



For the edim together with 3d vision, for the moment I can't, but they should work together as far as there is no interference with IR signals. I would say that it is highly probably they work together, imo. I'll test and report.

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#6
Posted 07/05/2009 08:36 AM   
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561735' date='Jul 5 2009, 06:36 PM']Sure, no problem to share the plans when I finish the first device.

For the edim together with 3d vision, for the moment I can't, but they should work together as far as there is no interference with IR signals. I would say that it is highly probably they work together, imo. I'll test and report.[/quote]

Hi, I'll be waiting for the plans.

Surprisingly yesterday I tried my edims + iz3d drivers + edactivator with my xr-10x on ati 4870 1gb card and played left 4 dead. I got very good ghosting free 3D. I think it's because my fps was above the projectors 85hz refresh rate, no?

cheers
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561735' date='Jul 5 2009, 06:36 PM']Sure, no problem to share the plans when I finish the first device.



For the edim together with 3d vision, for the moment I can't, but they should work together as far as there is no interference with IR signals. I would say that it is highly probably they work together, imo. I'll test and report.



Hi, I'll be waiting for the plans.



Surprisingly yesterday I tried my edims + iz3d drivers + edactivator with my xr-10x on ati 4870 1gb card and played left 4 dead. I got very good ghosting free 3D. I think it's because my fps was above the projectors 85hz refresh rate, no?



cheers

#7
Posted 07/05/2009 12:48 PM   
As I asume that V-sync is activated automatically for the 3d, I'd say then that the fps has nothing to do with the ghosting, even if eventually you'd had only 42.5 fps, what you would find is that you are projecting twice each frame. In the case the fps was a smaller than 85 but not a "round" number (multiple of the freq), the gfx card would still send frames synched with the frame rate, that could be achieved either by sending partial frames when needed, or by sending alternatively more times a frame and less times the next, I am not sure how it manage to do it, though.

What I think is clear (imho) is that one thing is the frames sent to the monitor and another thing is the synchronization of these images (even if they are partial frames, because of what I've just explained) and the glasses. That synchronization is the cause of the ghosting in DLP projectors.

It surprise me a little that you don't see "almost" no ghosting in L4D and in other games yes, maybe is the nature of the game (I mean colors, contrasts, etc). As it is a dark game, maybe the environment of the projector room could aid? I dunno. Has you found more ghosting in other games and same setup (iz3d + edactivator)? If you have found more ghosting with other games and/or drivers, my guess is that the near-zero ghosting that you see is related more to the "processing time" of the drivers (iz3d+edactivator) and the game itself. That delay, could change in function of the driver version and also of the difficulty to render the image in stereo (I think that at side of the gpu work for the normal render, the stereo logic inside the driver/wrapper could add more or less delay, which change from game to game)

Still, if you want it could be interesting to check these theories, to test a game that allowed during the test to have steady over 85fps, and then the same under 85 (maybe by changing detail level?, or maybe limiting max fps in console? I don't know), and to see if that makes the difference. I would bet no, though.
As I asume that V-sync is activated automatically for the 3d, I'd say then that the fps has nothing to do with the ghosting, even if eventually you'd had only 42.5 fps, what you would find is that you are projecting twice each frame. In the case the fps was a smaller than 85 but not a "round" number (multiple of the freq), the gfx card would still send frames synched with the frame rate, that could be achieved either by sending partial frames when needed, or by sending alternatively more times a frame and less times the next, I am not sure how it manage to do it, though.



What I think is clear (imho) is that one thing is the frames sent to the monitor and another thing is the synchronization of these images (even if they are partial frames, because of what I've just explained) and the glasses. That synchronization is the cause of the ghosting in DLP projectors.



It surprise me a little that you don't see "almost" no ghosting in L4D and in other games yes, maybe is the nature of the game (I mean colors, contrasts, etc). As it is a dark game, maybe the environment of the projector room could aid? I dunno. Has you found more ghosting in other games and same setup (iz3d + edactivator)? If you have found more ghosting with other games and/or drivers, my guess is that the near-zero ghosting that you see is related more to the "processing time" of the drivers (iz3d+edactivator) and the game itself. That delay, could change in function of the driver version and also of the difficulty to render the image in stereo (I think that at side of the gpu work for the normal render, the stereo logic inside the driver/wrapper could add more or less delay, which change from game to game)



Still, if you want it could be interesting to check these theories, to test a game that allowed during the test to have steady over 85fps, and then the same under 85 (maybe by changing detail level?, or maybe limiting max fps in console? I don't know), and to see if that makes the difference. I would bet no, though.

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#8
Posted 07/05/2009 02:55 PM   
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561824' date='Jul 6 2009, 12:55 AM']As I asume that V-sync is activated automatically for the 3d, I'd say then that the fps has nothing to do with the ghosting, even if eventually you'd had only 42.5 fps, what you would find is that you are projecting twice each frame. In the case the fps was a smaller than 85 but not a "round" number (multiple of the freq), the gfx card would still send frames synched with the frame rate, that could be achieved either by sending partial frames when needed, or by sending alternatively more times a frame and less times the next, I am not sure how it manage to do it, though.

What I think is clear (imho) is that one thing is the frames sent to the monitor and another thing is the synchronization of these images (even if they are partial frames, because of what I've just explained) and the glasses. That synchronization is the cause of the ghosting in DLP projectors.

It surprise me a little that you don't see "almost" no ghosting in L4D and in other games yes, maybe is the nature of the game (I mean colors, contrasts, etc). As it is a dark game, maybe the environment of the projector room could aid? I dunno. Has you found more ghosting in other games and same setup (iz3d + edactivator)? If you have found more ghosting with other games and/or drivers, my guess is that the near-zero ghosting that you see is related more to the "processing time" of the drivers (iz3d+edactivator) and the game itself. That delay, could change in function of the driver version and also of the difficulty to render the image in stereo (I think that at side of the gpu work for the normal render, the stereo logic inside the driver/wrapper could add more or less delay, which change from game to game)

Still, if you want it could be interesting to check these theories, to test a game that allowed during the test to have steady over 85fps, and then the same under 85 (maybe by changing detail level?, or maybe limiting max fps in console? I don't know), and to see if that makes the difference. I would bet no, though.[/quote]

Hi
I actually havent tried any other games with Iz3D + edim combination as I just found out about Iz3D (Yes, I was in hibernation :) ) I am writing this in misery because i did something very stupid. I actually was preparing to try what you have explained in the last paragraph. Because I bought my xr-10x without the bulb and relamped the housing with a bulb from china. I was fiddling with that to get more lumens. I found out the closer the reflector and the bulb the more bright the light is. so I installed it and used my latest "bright" idea of using a exhaust putty to mount it. in 5 seconds the silver of the reflector was burnt (stupidddd!!). because the putty transferred all the heat to the reflector as it contained a metal ingredient (I normally use a kind of cement which isolates the heat).

A split second of oversight in thinking cost me a lamp. I am so sad now :(

I am out of the game till I get another lamp I think :)

thanks for all the help and explanations above.
see you soon
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561824' date='Jul 6 2009, 12:55 AM']As I asume that V-sync is activated automatically for the 3d, I'd say then that the fps has nothing to do with the ghosting, even if eventually you'd had only 42.5 fps, what you would find is that you are projecting twice each frame. In the case the fps was a smaller than 85 but not a "round" number (multiple of the freq), the gfx card would still send frames synched with the frame rate, that could be achieved either by sending partial frames when needed, or by sending alternatively more times a frame and less times the next, I am not sure how it manage to do it, though.



What I think is clear (imho) is that one thing is the frames sent to the monitor and another thing is the synchronization of these images (even if they are partial frames, because of what I've just explained) and the glasses. That synchronization is the cause of the ghosting in DLP projectors.



It surprise me a little that you don't see "almost" no ghosting in L4D and in other games yes, maybe is the nature of the game (I mean colors, contrasts, etc). As it is a dark game, maybe the environment of the projector room could aid? I dunno. Has you found more ghosting in other games and same setup (iz3d + edactivator)? If you have found more ghosting with other games and/or drivers, my guess is that the near-zero ghosting that you see is related more to the "processing time" of the drivers (iz3d+edactivator) and the game itself. That delay, could change in function of the driver version and also of the difficulty to render the image in stereo (I think that at side of the gpu work for the normal render, the stereo logic inside the driver/wrapper could add more or less delay, which change from game to game)



Still, if you want it could be interesting to check these theories, to test a game that allowed during the test to have steady over 85fps, and then the same under 85 (maybe by changing detail level?, or maybe limiting max fps in console? I don't know), and to see if that makes the difference. I would bet no, though.



Hi

I actually havent tried any other games with Iz3D + edim combination as I just found out about Iz3D (Yes, I was in hibernation :) ) I am writing this in misery because i did something very stupid. I actually was preparing to try what you have explained in the last paragraph. Because I bought my xr-10x without the bulb and relamped the housing with a bulb from china. I was fiddling with that to get more lumens. I found out the closer the reflector and the bulb the more bright the light is. so I installed it and used my latest "bright" idea of using a exhaust putty to mount it. in 5 seconds the silver of the reflector was burnt (stupidddd!!). because the putty transferred all the heat to the reflector as it contained a metal ingredient (I normally use a kind of cement which isolates the heat).



A split second of oversight in thinking cost me a lamp. I am so sad now :(



I am out of the game till I get another lamp I think :)



thanks for all the help and explanations above.

see you soon

#9
Posted 07/05/2009 04:10 PM   
Ops. That is really sad. I could imagine how you feel now. I'm sorry.

Although it is the less important, I wasn't go to have the circuit finished just right now, because I am going to be some days abroad, and also busy, and I have to sort out some things before, so, maybe I'll finish it just in time when you will have another bulb... :mellow:

Cheer up!
Ops. That is really sad. I could imagine how you feel now. I'm sorry.



Although it is the less important, I wasn't go to have the circuit finished just right now, because I am going to be some days abroad, and also busy, and I have to sort out some things before, so, maybe I'll finish it just in time when you will have another bulb... :mellow:



Cheer up!

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#10
Posted 07/05/2009 04:47 PM   
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561850' date='Jul 6 2009, 02:47 AM']Ops. That is really sad. I could imagine how you feel now. I'm sorry.

Although it is the less important, I wasn't go to have the circuit finished just right now, because I am going to be some days abroad, and also busy, and I have to sort out some things before, so, maybe I'll finish it just in time when you will have another bulb... :mellow:

Cheer up![/quote]

Yep, thanks again! It would take some time get another one from china :) I also have this PhD to finish /: (sounded like I finish one every other day :) )

Cheers
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='561850' date='Jul 6 2009, 02:47 AM']Ops. That is really sad. I could imagine how you feel now. I'm sorry.



Although it is the less important, I wasn't go to have the circuit finished just right now, because I am going to be some days abroad, and also busy, and I have to sort out some things before, so, maybe I'll finish it just in time when you will have another bulb... :mellow:



Cheer up!



Yep, thanks again! It would take some time get another one from china :) I also have this PhD to finish /: (sounded like I finish one every other day :) )



Cheers

#11
Posted 07/05/2009 05:07 PM   
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