What do you people using CRT do about refresh rate issue Microsoft caused in Vista and Win7?
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I am using an LG Flatron 910bu CRT with 3D Vision glasses on Vista 32bit OS and of course I have no monitor .inf file for that OS. Generic PnP CRT monitor is only recognized as having max 85hz refresh rate by Vista and games that have option to set the refresh rate. That is not high enough to use 3D Vision so I had to go find a way around the issue. My solution was an old utility called Refreshforce that I used to use on Win98 which allows me to set my own refresh rates at the res I use for 3D games. Luckily it works in Vista because the person who wrote that updated it to another similar app and it doesn't work in Vista. I couldn't even download it from the authors site and had to search for another source to download from, which In did find. For 800x600 I have forced 120hz and for 1024x768 I have forced 100hz.

That works for me but am wondering if there is maybe a better solution I don't know about. One used to be able to force refresh rate in dxdiag for Directx games but Microsoft removed that ability from DXdiag too <rolls eyes>. IMO Nvidia should have a tool in their driver for people to force desired refresh rate but I guess they are afraid of users damaging their CRT by setting it too high, which I am betting is the reason Microsoft removed it from dxdiag too.
I am using an LG Flatron 910bu CRT with 3D Vision glasses on Vista 32bit OS and of course I have no monitor .inf file for that OS. Generic PnP CRT monitor is only recognized as having max 85hz refresh rate by Vista and games that have option to set the refresh rate. That is not high enough to use 3D Vision so I had to go find a way around the issue. My solution was an old utility called Refreshforce that I used to use on Win98 which allows me to set my own refresh rates at the res I use for 3D games. Luckily it works in Vista because the person who wrote that updated it to another similar app and it doesn't work in Vista. I couldn't even download it from the authors site and had to search for another source to download from, which In did find. For 800x600 I have forced 120hz and for 1024x768 I have forced 100hz.



That works for me but am wondering if there is maybe a better solution I don't know about. One used to be able to force refresh rate in dxdiag for Directx games but Microsoft removed that ability from DXdiag too <rolls eyes>. IMO Nvidia should have a tool in their driver for people to force desired refresh rate but I guess they are afraid of users damaging their CRT by setting it too high, which I am betting is the reason Microsoft removed it from dxdiag too.

#1
Posted 06/06/2010 12:16 AM   
[quote name='Bastido' post='1068787' date='Jun 6 2010, 01:16 AM']I am using an LG Flatron 910bu CRT with 3D Vision glasses on Vista 32bit OS and of course I have no monitor .inf file for that OS. Generic PnP CRT monitor is only recognized as having max 85hz refresh rate by Vista and games that have option to set the refresh rate. That is not high enough to use 3D Vision so I had to go find a way around the issue. My solution was an old utility called Refreshforce that I used to use on Win98 which allows me to set my own refresh rates at the res I use for 3D games. Luckily it works in Vista because the person who wrote that updated it to another similar app and it doesn't work in Vista. I couldn't even download it from the authors site and had to search for another source to download from, which In did find. For 800x600 I have forced 120hz and for 1024x768 I have forced 100hz.

That works for me but am wondering if there is maybe a better solution I don't know about. One used to be able to force refresh rate in dxdiag for Directx games but Microsoft removed that ability from DXdiag too <rolls eyes>. IMO Nvidia should have a tool in their driver for people to force desired refresh rate but I guess they are afraid of users damaging their CRT by setting it too high, which I am betting is the reason Microsoft removed it from dxdiag too.[/quote]

Or users like yourself reporting back that 3D vision is a load of flickering crap that just gives you headaches. Do yourself a favour and buy a 120hz Monitor and consign your large CRT to your local re-cycle centre where it belongs.
[quote name='Bastido' post='1068787' date='Jun 6 2010, 01:16 AM']I am using an LG Flatron 910bu CRT with 3D Vision glasses on Vista 32bit OS and of course I have no monitor .inf file for that OS. Generic PnP CRT monitor is only recognized as having max 85hz refresh rate by Vista and games that have option to set the refresh rate. That is not high enough to use 3D Vision so I had to go find a way around the issue. My solution was an old utility called Refreshforce that I used to use on Win98 which allows me to set my own refresh rates at the res I use for 3D games. Luckily it works in Vista because the person who wrote that updated it to another similar app and it doesn't work in Vista. I couldn't even download it from the authors site and had to search for another source to download from, which In did find. For 800x600 I have forced 120hz and for 1024x768 I have forced 100hz.



That works for me but am wondering if there is maybe a better solution I don't know about. One used to be able to force refresh rate in dxdiag for Directx games but Microsoft removed that ability from DXdiag too <rolls eyes>. IMO Nvidia should have a tool in their driver for people to force desired refresh rate but I guess they are afraid of users damaging their CRT by setting it too high, which I am betting is the reason Microsoft removed it from dxdiag too.



Or users like yourself reporting back that 3D vision is a load of flickering crap that just gives you headaches. Do yourself a favour and buy a 120hz Monitor and consign your large CRT to your local re-cycle centre where it belongs.

Win 7 64 - i7 4770k 4.5ghz - Corsair hydro water cooled - MSI Z87-GD65 mobo - MSI GTX 780ti Gaming twin frozr 3GB - 16GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 RAM - 500 GB SSD - Corsair 760 PSU

#2
Posted 06/06/2010 06:35 AM   
Personally, I use my monitor on 85Hz :P
I think its fine like this (at least until the 3D monitors hit Australia [the 2233rz doesn't count because it ghosts too much for me]).

There is another simple way which I have not tried, but its somewhere on this forum, and it turns out that if you remove a specific pin from the D-Sub male connector that connects to the CRT the refresh rates will no longer be locked.

Nick
Personally, I use my monitor on 85Hz :P

I think its fine like this (at least until the 3D monitors hit Australia [the 2233rz doesn't count because it ghosts too much for me]).



There is another simple way which I have not tried, but its somewhere on this forum, and it turns out that if you remove a specific pin from the D-Sub male connector that connects to the CRT the refresh rates will no longer be locked.



Nick

Twitter: @Dr_Inkduff

<b>Processor:</b> Intel Core i7 920 D0 (4Ghz) <b>Motherboard:</b> ASUS P6T

<b>Memory:</b> 6GB DDR3 RAM (Kingston) <b>Graphics:</b> GTX 260 (216 cores, physX); EVGA GTX 480 SC

<b>OS:</b> Win7 Home Premium 64-bit / Vista Home Premium 64-bit

<b>Hard Disks:</b> 750GB + 500GB <b>Tower:</b> Antec 'Twelve Hundred' Gaming Tower

<b>Monitors:</b> 24" ACER GD245HQbd 120Hz 1920*1080 + 22" widescreen LCD 1680x1050

http://bit.ly/Bluesteel

#3
Posted 06/06/2010 08:46 AM   
[quote name='Dr Nick' post='1068906' date='Jun 6 2010, 09:46 AM']Personally, I use my monitor on 85Hz :P
I think its fine like this (at least until the 3D monitors hit Australia [the 2233rz doesn't count because it ghosts too much for me]).

There is another simple way which I have not tried, but its somewhere on this forum, and it turns out that if you remove a specific pin from the D-Sub male connector that connects to the CRT the refresh rates will no longer be locked.

Nick[/quote]
No 3D monitors in Australia yet? And I thought the UK was behind in the tech world.
[quote name='Dr Nick' post='1068906' date='Jun 6 2010, 09:46 AM']Personally, I use my monitor on 85Hz :P

I think its fine like this (at least until the 3D monitors hit Australia [the 2233rz doesn't count because it ghosts too much for me]).



There is another simple way which I have not tried, but its somewhere on this forum, and it turns out that if you remove a specific pin from the D-Sub male connector that connects to the CRT the refresh rates will no longer be locked.



Nick

No 3D monitors in Australia yet? And I thought the UK was behind in the tech world.

Win 7 64 - i7 4770k 4.5ghz - Corsair hydro water cooled - MSI Z87-GD65 mobo - MSI GTX 780ti Gaming twin frozr 3GB - 16GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 RAM - 500 GB SSD - Corsair 760 PSU

#4
Posted 06/06/2010 10:28 AM   
Yeah, it's pretty sad, we only have the syncmaster 2233rz available anywhere in aus as far as 120hz monitors go, and since it is small and has ghosting issues there is no way I would buy it...

Might have to wait a while yet...
Nick
Yeah, it's pretty sad, we only have the syncmaster 2233rz available anywhere in aus as far as 120hz monitors go, and since it is small and has ghosting issues there is no way I would buy it...



Might have to wait a while yet...

Nick

Twitter: @Dr_Inkduff

<b>Processor:</b> Intel Core i7 920 D0 (4Ghz) <b>Motherboard:</b> ASUS P6T

<b>Memory:</b> 6GB DDR3 RAM (Kingston) <b>Graphics:</b> GTX 260 (216 cores, physX); EVGA GTX 480 SC

<b>OS:</b> Win7 Home Premium 64-bit / Vista Home Premium 64-bit

<b>Hard Disks:</b> 750GB + 500GB <b>Tower:</b> Antec 'Twelve Hundred' Gaming Tower

<b>Monitors:</b> 24" ACER GD245HQbd 120Hz 1920*1080 + 22" widescreen LCD 1680x1050

http://bit.ly/Bluesteel

#5
Posted 06/06/2010 10:35 AM   
[quote name='Dr Nick' post='1068931' date='Jun 6 2010, 11:35 AM']Yeah, it's pretty sad, we only have the syncmaster 2233rz available anywhere in aus as far as 120hz monitors go, and since it is small and has ghosting issues there is no way I would buy it...

Might have to wait a while yet...
Nick[/quote]


The ghosting issue is massively over exagerated.
[quote name='Dr Nick' post='1068931' date='Jun 6 2010, 11:35 AM']Yeah, it's pretty sad, we only have the syncmaster 2233rz available anywhere in aus as far as 120hz monitors go, and since it is small and has ghosting issues there is no way I would buy it...



Might have to wait a while yet...

Nick





The ghosting issue is massively over exagerated.

#6
Posted 06/06/2010 11:02 AM   
[quote name='NicWilson89' post='1068948' date='Jun 6 2010, 01:02 PM']The ghosting issue is massively over exagerated.[/quote]No it's not.

As far as i've seen an old crt+e-d-glasses is a way better experience from the one with 3d-vision and the 2233rz. I don't think it's the fault of 3d-vision though. The displays aren't capable of 3d yet (especially lcd's which have always been the case...). So the old users who have their old crt'tubes are definitely having a better experience with 10 year old equipment than the ones getting new kits. In my opinion the trial and error phase regarding 3d-stereo has passed a long time ago which means that newly introduced solutions should have close to a perfect vision of 3d. Talk about reinventing the wheel all over again... /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' />
I need to say that i've only seen the samsung 2233rz +3d-vision and for me it's unbelievable that someone with their right minds approved this as a good 3d-experience.

The list of 3d-visioncertified hardware should be updated with images/videos of the actual experience to provide customers with a way to decide what they want. As is today you're playing lottery when getting a new 3d-solution.
[quote name='NicWilson89' post='1068948' date='Jun 6 2010, 01:02 PM']The ghosting issue is massively over exagerated.No it's not.



As far as i've seen an old crt+e-d-glasses is a way better experience from the one with 3d-vision and the 2233rz. I don't think it's the fault of 3d-vision though. The displays aren't capable of 3d yet (especially lcd's which have always been the case...). So the old users who have their old crt'tubes are definitely having a better experience with 10 year old equipment than the ones getting new kits. In my opinion the trial and error phase regarding 3d-stereo has passed a long time ago which means that newly introduced solutions should have close to a perfect vision of 3d. Talk about reinventing the wheel all over again... /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' />

I need to say that i've only seen the samsung 2233rz +3d-vision and for me it's unbelievable that someone with their right minds approved this as a good 3d-experience.



The list of 3d-visioncertified hardware should be updated with images/videos of the actual experience to provide customers with a way to decide what they want. As is today you're playing lottery when getting a new 3d-solution.

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#7
Posted 06/06/2010 11:07 AM   
Actually with 2 projectors we can totally eliminate ghosting , if we use 2 projectors , and put a spinning wheel in front of lens in sync with the glasses. Terminated. /shifty.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shifty:' />
Actually with 2 projectors we can totally eliminate ghosting , if we use 2 projectors , and put a spinning wheel in front of lens in sync with the glasses. Terminated. /shifty.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shifty:' />

#8
Posted 06/06/2010 12:49 PM   
(!) you just need a little trick under windows 7 (!)

go to: add custom refresh rate -> manual timing
enter 120,00[b]1[/b]hz instead of 120hz (or other values)
and enjoy your high refresh rates!
(!) you just need a little trick under windows 7 (!)



go to: add custom refresh rate -> manual timing

enter 120,001hz instead of 120hz (or other values)

and enjoy your high refresh rates!

#9
Posted 06/06/2010 01:46 PM   
[quote name='tritosine' post='1068980' date='Jun 6 2010, 02:49 PM']Actually with 2 projectors we can totally eliminate ghosting , if we use 2 projectors , and put a spinning wheel in front of lens in sync with the glasses. Terminated. /shifty.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shifty:' />[/quote]yeah but: You'll still have some ghosting caused by the shutters not going completely opaque when blocking. There should also be some difficulties with eventual noise from the spinning wheel. But yes: I think it should work though. Myself i'm very happy with the image from a dual projector rig using polarized light. However:
Most people aren't really prepared to get two projectors (or not even one) just for an introduction to 3d. New 3d-generation of monitors+3d-glasses should at least give a better experience than a 10 year old shutter+crt-rig. If the image is crap more people trash it. Simple as that. :(
[quote name='tritosine' post='1068980' date='Jun 6 2010, 02:49 PM']Actually with 2 projectors we can totally eliminate ghosting , if we use 2 projectors , and put a spinning wheel in front of lens in sync with the glasses. Terminated. /shifty.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shifty:' />yeah but: You'll still have some ghosting caused by the shutters not going completely opaque when blocking. There should also be some difficulties with eventual noise from the spinning wheel. But yes: I think it should work though. Myself i'm very happy with the image from a dual projector rig using polarized light. However:

Most people aren't really prepared to get two projectors (or not even one) just for an introduction to 3d. New 3d-generation of monitors+3d-glasses should at least give a better experience than a 10 year old shutter+crt-rig. If the image is crap more people trash it. Simple as that. :(

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#10
Posted 06/06/2010 02:30 PM   
indeed the 2233rz is a failure.
indeed the 2233rz is a failure.

#11
Posted 06/06/2010 04:16 PM   
At first I thought the same thing about the 2233rz. I was so appalled that I had just payed $900 (bought the GTX 280 at the same time as the bundle) for such a ghost-ridden experience. But over time I got used to tuning it out and started realizing that it's really not that bad for the most barebones entry-level experience for 3D. Sure if you have a really good CRT laying around that can do 100 hz at a good resolution, that's cheaper, but even before 3D Vision came along, I was in the market for a good CRT and eDimensional glasses and found that a good CRT that met the above requirements was usually at least $300, sans shipping unless you REALLY got lucky with Craigslist (which I did not). I did find a $200 one off Amazon but it was getting horrible reviews and apparently had image degradation problems over a relatively short time. So by the time I was fed up looking for a good CRT, 3D Vision came along and boasted 1680x1050 @ 120 Hz, which no CRT could do mind you. And while it was a bit more expensive than going the CRT + eD route, it was a more robust solution given to us straight from the GPU company itself, which meant better driver support than any 3D solution out there. It just felt more of a complete worry free solution at the time than some 3rd party solution that recently had its support dropped by Nvidia.

Edit: oh and just for the record I'm NOT saying it's a good barebones experience nowadays (I'd go a cheap projector route now), but at the time of its release I think it fit the bill nicely, all things considered.
At first I thought the same thing about the 2233rz. I was so appalled that I had just payed $900 (bought the GTX 280 at the same time as the bundle) for such a ghost-ridden experience. But over time I got used to tuning it out and started realizing that it's really not that bad for the most barebones entry-level experience for 3D. Sure if you have a really good CRT laying around that can do 100 hz at a good resolution, that's cheaper, but even before 3D Vision came along, I was in the market for a good CRT and eDimensional glasses and found that a good CRT that met the above requirements was usually at least $300, sans shipping unless you REALLY got lucky with Craigslist (which I did not). I did find a $200 one off Amazon but it was getting horrible reviews and apparently had image degradation problems over a relatively short time. So by the time I was fed up looking for a good CRT, 3D Vision came along and boasted 1680x1050 @ 120 Hz, which no CRT could do mind you. And while it was a bit more expensive than going the CRT + eD route, it was a more robust solution given to us straight from the GPU company itself, which meant better driver support than any 3D solution out there. It just felt more of a complete worry free solution at the time than some 3rd party solution that recently had its support dropped by Nvidia.



Edit: oh and just for the record I'm NOT saying it's a good barebones experience nowadays (I'd go a cheap projector route now), but at the time of its release I think it fit the bill nicely, all things considered.

Q6600 @ 3.0 GHz
4GB DDR2 800
GTX 280
3D Vision w/Samsung 2233rz
Vista 64

#12
Posted 06/07/2010 02:48 AM   
[quote name='tritosine' post='1069040' date='Jun 6 2010, 06:16 PM']indeed the 2233rz is a failure.[/quote]
all current tfts are failures

[quote name='3D schmeedee' post='1069327' date='Jun 7 2010, 04:48 AM']So by the time I was fed up looking for a good CRT, 3D Vision came along and boasted 1680x1050 @ 120 Hz, which no CRT could do mind you.[/quote]
actually quite a few crts can do that

i just tested 1680x1050@120Hz on my [i]lacie electron 22 blue iv[/i] & my [i]iiyama vision master pro 510[/i]
works on both of them

the fw900 can even do 100hz at 1920x1200
[quote name='tritosine' post='1069040' date='Jun 6 2010, 06:16 PM']indeed the 2233rz is a failure.

all current tfts are failures



[quote name='3D schmeedee' post='1069327' date='Jun 7 2010, 04:48 AM']So by the time I was fed up looking for a good CRT, 3D Vision came along and boasted 1680x1050 @ 120 Hz, which no CRT could do mind you.

actually quite a few crts can do that



i just tested 1680x1050@120Hz on my lacie electron 22 blue iv & my iiyama vision master pro 510

works on both of them



the fw900 can even do 100hz at 1920x1200

#13
Posted 06/07/2010 06:25 AM   
I've attached the inf file I'm currently using. It's the davemon.inf file, which is a generic CRT inf file with all refresh rates unlocked, but with a little help from the microsoft website I figured out how to turn it into a 64 bit driver. It works 100% for me. I have a P1130 Dell 21" CRT running 1280*960@120Hz and 1600*1200@100 Hz under Win7 64-bit.

You still need to use the 'add custom resolution' in the nvidia control panel and add your 100/120 Hz modes.
I've attached the inf file I'm currently using. It's the davemon.inf file, which is a generic CRT inf file with all refresh rates unlocked, but with a little help from the microsoft website I figured out how to turn it into a 64 bit driver. It works 100% for me. I have a P1130 Dell 21" CRT running 1280*960@120Hz and 1600*1200@100 Hz under Win7 64-bit.



You still need to use the 'add custom resolution' in the nvidia control panel and add your 100/120 Hz modes.
Attachments

davemon64.zip

#14
Posted 06/07/2010 10:39 AM   
[quote name='slipstream' post='1068874' date='Jun 6 2010, 07:35 AM']Or users like yourself reporting back that 3D vision is a load of flickering crap that just gives you headaches. Do yourself a favour and buy a 120hz Monitor and consign your large CRT to your local re-cycle centre where it belongs.[/quote]
120 Hz working just fine on my CRT under Win7 64 bit thanks.
[quote name='slipstream' post='1068874' date='Jun 6 2010, 07:35 AM']Or users like yourself reporting back that 3D vision is a load of flickering crap that just gives you headaches. Do yourself a favour and buy a 120hz Monitor and consign your large CRT to your local re-cycle centre where it belongs.

120 Hz working just fine on my CRT under Win7 64 bit thanks.

#15
Posted 06/07/2010 10:44 AM   
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