[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='557185' date='Jun 24 2009, 05:05 PM']TrackIR actually works quite nicely with 3D Vision today. I have their product (they were nice enough to send it) and it does work really well for some games.[/quote]
Hi, that's great news! Does this mean that you can use Track IR in conjunction with 3D Vision to get the head tracking effect in a 3D environment? If that's the case, I'll go buy one now!
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='557185' date='Jun 24 2009, 05:05 PM']TrackIR actually works quite nicely with 3D Vision today. I have their product (they were nice enough to send it) and it does work really well for some games.
Hi, that's great news! Does this mean that you can use Track IR in conjunction with 3D Vision to get the head tracking effect in a 3D environment? If that's the case, I'll go buy one now!
You got to understand that these are 2 technologies that [i]can[/i] play nicely togehter...and if they do it right immersion is almost perfect.
They don't rival by any means since they using completely different algorithms.
While stereoscopy gives you a simulation of paralax view (the 2 independent perspectives of a 3 dimensional object perceived by 2 yes in real life), headtracking is simulating the interactivity of moving your head and, by doing so, changing the paralax perspective. In the real world these 2 variables mix since a) you have 2 eyes (hopefully) and B) you will allways move your head - willingly or unconsciously - to get a better understanding of your environment - visually AND acoustically.
However, [i]both[/i] needs to be supported independently well to achieve this.
That means if a game does not support headtracking, nvision will and can not bring it in, if a game supports headtracking but the code does not fare good in creating good stereoscopy (misplaced shadows, sprites or what else) it will still look freaked with headtracking.
Good headtracking will allways be a subtle addition to your avatar movement. Say, if the mouse moves the body of your alter ego, headtracking should correspond to head movement (ergo headtracking). Now, in a computer simiulation on a standard display (not a HMD) you will more or less allways keep your fixation straight ahead onto the monitor with less pan or tilt and just a little yaw and bit more movement forward/backwards. Good headtracking needs to translate these movements to a real live like projection iof the scene you're looking at - so it will be a [i]very[/i] subtle effect when done properly. try to imagine it as looking around the corners of a picture or window with your monitor being the frame.
I have not followed the link but I strongly asume it's Johnny Chung Lee's demo of the wii mote - who lately has been hired by Microsoft for their "Natal" project...
You got to understand that these are 2 technologies that can play nicely togehter...and if they do it right immersion is almost perfect.
They don't rival by any means since they using completely different algorithms.
While stereoscopy gives you a simulation of paralax view (the 2 independent perspectives of a 3 dimensional object perceived by 2 yes in real life), headtracking is simulating the interactivity of moving your head and, by doing so, changing the paralax perspective. In the real world these 2 variables mix since a) you have 2 eyes (hopefully) and B) you will allways move your head - willingly or unconsciously - to get a better understanding of your environment - visually AND acoustically.
However, both needs to be supported independently well to achieve this.
That means if a game does not support headtracking, nvision will and can not bring it in, if a game supports headtracking but the code does not fare good in creating good stereoscopy (misplaced shadows, sprites or what else) it will still look freaked with headtracking.
Good headtracking will allways be a subtle addition to your avatar movement. Say, if the mouse moves the body of your alter ego, headtracking should correspond to head movement (ergo headtracking). Now, in a computer simiulation on a standard display (not a HMD) you will more or less allways keep your fixation straight ahead onto the monitor with less pan or tilt and just a little yaw and bit more movement forward/backwards. Good headtracking needs to translate these movements to a real live like projection iof the scene you're looking at - so it will be a very subtle effect when done properly. try to imagine it as looking around the corners of a picture or window with your monitor being the frame.
I have not followed the link but I strongly asume it's Johnny Chung Lee's demo of the wii mote - who lately has been hired by Microsoft for their "Natal" project...
i have been using the Vuzix VR920 for a while now and it has great 3D and head tracking capabilities but since Nvidia stopped supporting Win XP and there has not been an update for the Vuzix software the 3D uses are not really worth it, i would rather be able to look around with the headset on and be able to see whats there, sort of mouse look and have this in 3D but Nvidia thinks that it is not worth it and would rather have a big monitor on the desk with 3D instead of a much better imersive system with independantly operated screens. (yes i know the VR920 only runs at 60hz, 30hz for each eye but with Nvidias help they could make a kit for us all to drool over)
i have been using the Vuzix VR920 for a while now and it has great 3D and head tracking capabilities but since Nvidia stopped supporting Win XP and there has not been an update for the Vuzix software the 3D uses are not really worth it, i would rather be able to look around with the headset on and be able to see whats there, sort of mouse look and have this in 3D but Nvidia thinks that it is not worth it and would rather have a big monitor on the desk with 3D instead of a much better imersive system with independantly operated screens. (yes i know the VR920 only runs at 60hz, 30hz for each eye but with Nvidias help they could make a kit for us all to drool over)
I agree, in general. I'll add that what I think this technology really needs to break through is to incorporate the display into the glasses themselves.
This would mean:
1. No more white flashes
2. Brighter colors
3. Easier to implement head tracking, and better results from head tracking
4. Complete separation from the monitor altogether -- you don't need two pieces of hardware when one works.
5. More privacy as you play.
6. More reliable solution -- nVidia would have full control over the hardware and it would be the same for everyone.
7. Portable.
I agree, in general. I'll add that what I think this technology really needs to break through is to incorporate the display into the glasses themselves.
This would mean:
1. No more white flashes
2. Brighter colors
3. Easier to implement head tracking, and better results from head tracking
4. Complete separation from the monitor altogether -- you don't need two pieces of hardware when one works.
5. More privacy as you play.
6. More reliable solution -- nVidia would have full control over the hardware and it would be the same for everyone.
Metyx, thats never going to happen. The smaller a LCD the more it costs. At the moment 800x600 HMD's are more expensive than the Samsung LCD + 3D Vision.
What is really needed is for nVidia to un-do the backstab they did and start supporting all the other companies glasses again (You know, the ones that are 1/4th of the price yet in some cases actually better!)
Alternativly nVidia could lower the cost of there glasses, that would make a world of a difference.
Metyx, thats never going to happen. The smaller a LCD the more it costs. At the moment 800x600 HMD's are more expensive than the Samsung LCD + 3D Vision.
What is really needed is for nVidia to un-do the backstab they did and start supporting all the other companies glasses again (You know, the ones that are 1/4th of the price yet in some cases actually better!)
Alternativly nVidia could lower the cost of there glasses, that would make a world of a difference.
I had Vuzix VR920 glasses before buying the 3d vision kit and for me they where a huge dissapointment, despite having the display in the glasses they're just not suited for games, the problem is the LCD optics haven't been developed enough yet, the only way I can describe it is like playing a game through a video camera lense, the headtracking was fun for a while but it was useless for any real gaming as text was very difficult to read and everything was just too far away to feel immersive. I think currently nvidias 3d vision is probably the best consumer 3d solution out there considering you can use them with large tv's and projectors as well, couple that with a headtracking kit like TrackIR and you could have some serious fun, also I think it could be great if they introduced a wrap around monitor similar to the alienware curved one and that way when you turn your head you would still be seeing the screen, i'm considering buying 2 more samsung monitors to try out a 3 display system with headtracking.
I had Vuzix VR920 glasses before buying the 3d vision kit and for me they where a huge dissapointment, despite having the display in the glasses they're just not suited for games, the problem is the LCD optics haven't been developed enough yet, the only way I can describe it is like playing a game through a video camera lense, the headtracking was fun for a while but it was useless for any real gaming as text was very difficult to read and everything was just too far away to feel immersive. I think currently nvidias 3d vision is probably the best consumer 3d solution out there considering you can use them with large tv's and projectors as well, couple that with a headtracking kit like TrackIR and you could have some serious fun, also I think it could be great if they introduced a wrap around monitor similar to the alienware curved one and that way when you turn your head you would still be seeing the screen, i'm considering buying 2 more samsung monitors to try out a 3 display system with headtracking.
4790K @ 4.7GHZ + Asus Maximus Hero VII 16 GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3 1866 Tracer, GeForce GTX 1070 SEA HAWK EK X + nVidia 3D Vision/Gsync Avid MBOX 3 + Adam AX5 Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD RAID + 2GB Caviar Black Raid Coolermaster Silent Pro M 1000W PSU Xygmatek Elysium Supertower
I've thought about this before and have some things to bring up.
Firstly and obviously it should only track one user so it's not that great for watching someone else play.
Secondly, thoughts on compatibility... It seems that any game that works in 3d should work with head tracking if it's a function built into the stereo driver. Since the stereo driver renders images by shifting the virtual cameras left and right, it should be able to shift both virtual cameras left if you move your head left. It really doesn't seem like it should be that hard to tweak the drivers to provide that function. Up/down shifting shouldn't be that hard either but it's possible that there are some technical problems if the stereo hardware was only built to do horizontal shifts. Then there's in/out motion which should change the field of view of the game as well as visual size of near things. This would be cool but I would be OK without it. Then there's clockwise/counterclockwise roll motion which I could also live without since we don't rotate our heads much that way although it might be cool. All these things would be cool but I think mostly if you just had left/right motion tracking, that would be enough and it would add alot and like I said, it shouldn't be that hard since the stereo drivers already have the ability to shift the virtual cameras sideways. So basically, all 3d-able games would be compatible.
Thirdly, it would be cool if there was a standard 3d movie format that was sensitive to head-tracking too but that would probably require a complete 3d real-time scene-rendering and that's just not how movies are made. Maybe it's time for a change.
I've thought about this before and have some things to bring up.
Firstly and obviously it should only track one user so it's not that great for watching someone else play.
Secondly, thoughts on compatibility... It seems that any game that works in 3d should work with head tracking if it's a function built into the stereo driver. Since the stereo driver renders images by shifting the virtual cameras left and right, it should be able to shift both virtual cameras left if you move your head left. It really doesn't seem like it should be that hard to tweak the drivers to provide that function. Up/down shifting shouldn't be that hard either but it's possible that there are some technical problems if the stereo hardware was only built to do horizontal shifts. Then there's in/out motion which should change the field of view of the game as well as visual size of near things. This would be cool but I would be OK without it. Then there's clockwise/counterclockwise roll motion which I could also live without since we don't rotate our heads much that way although it might be cool. All these things would be cool but I think mostly if you just had left/right motion tracking, that would be enough and it would add alot and like I said, it shouldn't be that hard since the stereo drivers already have the ability to shift the virtual cameras sideways. So basically, all 3d-able games would be compatible.
Thirdly, it would be cool if there was a standard 3d movie format that was sensitive to head-tracking too but that would probably require a complete 3d real-time scene-rendering and that's just not how movies are made. Maybe it's time for a change.
Oo, nice little detail iondrive what I wasnt aware of. So there is little to no need for cooperation with game makers to get things rolling. I suppose they would be naturally adapting to it if the technology was there waiting for them.
Oo, nice little detail iondrive what I wasnt aware of. So there is little to no need for cooperation with game makers to get things rolling. I suppose they would be naturally adapting to it if the technology was there waiting for them.
Hi, that's great news! Does this mean that you can use Track IR in conjunction with 3D Vision to get the head tracking effect in a 3D environment? If that's the case, I'll go buy one now!
Hi, that's great news! Does this mean that you can use Track IR in conjunction with 3D Vision to get the head tracking effect in a 3D environment? If that's the case, I'll go buy one now!
They don't rival by any means since they using completely different algorithms.
While stereoscopy gives you a simulation of paralax view (the 2 independent perspectives of a 3 dimensional object perceived by 2 yes in real life), headtracking is simulating the interactivity of moving your head and, by doing so, changing the paralax perspective. In the real world these 2 variables mix since a) you have 2 eyes (hopefully) and B) you will allways move your head - willingly or unconsciously - to get a better understanding of your environment - visually AND acoustically.
However, [i]both[/i] needs to be supported independently well to achieve this.
That means if a game does not support headtracking, nvision will and can not bring it in, if a game supports headtracking but the code does not fare good in creating good stereoscopy (misplaced shadows, sprites or what else) it will still look freaked with headtracking.
Good headtracking will allways be a subtle addition to your avatar movement. Say, if the mouse moves the body of your alter ego, headtracking should correspond to head movement (ergo headtracking). Now, in a computer simiulation on a standard display (not a HMD) you will more or less allways keep your fixation straight ahead onto the monitor with less pan or tilt and just a little yaw and bit more movement forward/backwards. Good headtracking needs to translate these movements to a real live like projection iof the scene you're looking at - so it will be a [i]very[/i] subtle effect when done properly. try to imagine it as looking around the corners of a picture or window with your monitor being the frame.
I have not followed the link but I strongly asume it's Johnny Chung Lee's demo of the wii mote - who lately has been hired by Microsoft for their "Natal" project...
followed it, 'cause it was...
They don't rival by any means since they using completely different algorithms.
While stereoscopy gives you a simulation of paralax view (the 2 independent perspectives of a 3 dimensional object perceived by 2 yes in real life), headtracking is simulating the interactivity of moving your head and, by doing so, changing the paralax perspective. In the real world these 2 variables mix since a) you have 2 eyes (hopefully) and B) you will allways move your head - willingly or unconsciously - to get a better understanding of your environment - visually AND acoustically.
However, both needs to be supported independently well to achieve this.
That means if a game does not support headtracking, nvision will and can not bring it in, if a game supports headtracking but the code does not fare good in creating good stereoscopy (misplaced shadows, sprites or what else) it will still look freaked with headtracking.
Good headtracking will allways be a subtle addition to your avatar movement. Say, if the mouse moves the body of your alter ego, headtracking should correspond to head movement (ergo headtracking). Now, in a computer simiulation on a standard display (not a HMD) you will more or less allways keep your fixation straight ahead onto the monitor with less pan or tilt and just a little yaw and bit more movement forward/backwards. Good headtracking needs to translate these movements to a real live like projection iof the scene you're looking at - so it will be a very subtle effect when done properly. try to imagine it as looking around the corners of a picture or window with your monitor being the frame.
I have not followed the link but I strongly asume it's Johnny Chung Lee's demo of the wii mote - who lately has been hired by Microsoft for their "Natal" project...
followed it, 'cause it was...
This would mean:
1. No more white flashes
2. Brighter colors
3. Easier to implement head tracking, and better results from head tracking
4. Complete separation from the monitor altogether -- you don't need two pieces of hardware when one works.
5. More privacy as you play.
6. More reliable solution -- nVidia would have full control over the hardware and it would be the same for everyone.
7. Portable.
This would mean:
1. No more white flashes
2. Brighter colors
3. Easier to implement head tracking, and better results from head tracking
4. Complete separation from the monitor altogether -- you don't need two pieces of hardware when one works.
5. More privacy as you play.
6. More reliable solution -- nVidia would have full control over the hardware and it would be the same for everyone.
7. Portable.
What is really needed is for nVidia to un-do the backstab they did and start supporting all the other companies glasses again (You know, the ones that are 1/4th of the price yet in some cases actually better!)
Alternativly nVidia could lower the cost of there glasses, that would make a world of a difference.
What is really needed is for nVidia to un-do the backstab they did and start supporting all the other companies glasses again (You know, the ones that are 1/4th of the price yet in some cases actually better!)
Alternativly nVidia could lower the cost of there glasses, that would make a world of a difference.
4790K @ 4.7GHZ + Asus Maximus Hero VII 16 GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3 1866 Tracer, GeForce GTX 1070 SEA HAWK EK X + nVidia 3D Vision/Gsync Avid MBOX 3 + Adam AX5 Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD RAID + 2GB Caviar Black Raid Coolermaster Silent Pro M 1000W PSU Xygmatek Elysium Supertower
Firstly and obviously it should only track one user so it's not that great for watching someone else play.
Secondly, thoughts on compatibility... It seems that any game that works in 3d should work with head tracking if it's a function built into the stereo driver. Since the stereo driver renders images by shifting the virtual cameras left and right, it should be able to shift both virtual cameras left if you move your head left. It really doesn't seem like it should be that hard to tweak the drivers to provide that function. Up/down shifting shouldn't be that hard either but it's possible that there are some technical problems if the stereo hardware was only built to do horizontal shifts. Then there's in/out motion which should change the field of view of the game as well as visual size of near things. This would be cool but I would be OK without it. Then there's clockwise/counterclockwise roll motion which I could also live without since we don't rotate our heads much that way although it might be cool. All these things would be cool but I think mostly if you just had left/right motion tracking, that would be enough and it would add alot and like I said, it shouldn't be that hard since the stereo drivers already have the ability to shift the virtual cameras sideways. So basically, all 3d-able games would be compatible.
Thirdly, it would be cool if there was a standard 3d movie format that was sensitive to head-tracking too but that would probably require a complete 3d real-time scene-rendering and that's just not how movies are made. Maybe it's time for a change.
later.
Firstly and obviously it should only track one user so it's not that great for watching someone else play.
Secondly, thoughts on compatibility... It seems that any game that works in 3d should work with head tracking if it's a function built into the stereo driver. Since the stereo driver renders images by shifting the virtual cameras left and right, it should be able to shift both virtual cameras left if you move your head left. It really doesn't seem like it should be that hard to tweak the drivers to provide that function. Up/down shifting shouldn't be that hard either but it's possible that there are some technical problems if the stereo hardware was only built to do horizontal shifts. Then there's in/out motion which should change the field of view of the game as well as visual size of near things. This would be cool but I would be OK without it. Then there's clockwise/counterclockwise roll motion which I could also live without since we don't rotate our heads much that way although it might be cool. All these things would be cool but I think mostly if you just had left/right motion tracking, that would be enough and it would add alot and like I said, it shouldn't be that hard since the stereo drivers already have the ability to shift the virtual cameras sideways. So basically, all 3d-able games would be compatible.
Thirdly, it would be cool if there was a standard 3d movie format that was sensitive to head-tracking too but that would probably require a complete 3d real-time scene-rendering and that's just not how movies are made. Maybe it's time for a change.
later.