nVidia 3D monitor questions ghosting, rolling ghosting, on LCD monitors
I'm running CentOS 5.5 with an nVidia Quadro FX 3800 card attached to either an Acer GD235Hz or AlienWare OptX 2310 LCD monitor. Both monitors are 120 Hz maximum. This is my work system where I do computational chemistry and require the ability to view in 3D. All of the setup goes fine, I can adjust my resolution and refresh to the maximums (1920x1080@120 Hz), but both monitors have problems.
For the AlienWare monitor, I have significant ghosting in the upper 10-15% of the screen. Most of the screen is usable, but I can't seem to find a way to improve that top 10-15%.
For the Acer, ghosting seems to roll from top to bottom or bottom to top (depending on the refresh rate) and once the ghosted section hits an edge, the whole screen kind of jumps.
For both monitors, I've tried to include Modelines in my xorg.conf file that are derived from the EDID information I see in my Xorg.0.log file. I think that these values are used by the xserver anyway to establish displayable modes and are likely redundant. Regardless, I have yet to discover a solution that fixes the problem on either monitor.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most appreciative.
I'm running CentOS 5.5 with an nVidia Quadro FX 3800 card attached to either an Acer GD235Hz or AlienWare OptX 2310 LCD monitor. Both monitors are 120 Hz maximum. This is my work system where I do computational chemistry and require the ability to view in 3D. All of the setup goes fine, I can adjust my resolution and refresh to the maximums (1920x1080@120 Hz), but both monitors have problems.
For the AlienWare monitor, I have significant ghosting in the upper 10-15% of the screen. Most of the screen is usable, but I can't seem to find a way to improve that top 10-15%.
For the Acer, ghosting seems to roll from top to bottom or bottom to top (depending on the refresh rate) and once the ghosted section hits an edge, the whole screen kind of jumps.
For both monitors, I've tried to include Modelines in my xorg.conf file that are derived from the EDID information I see in my Xorg.0.log file. I think that these values are used by the xserver anyway to establish displayable modes and are likely redundant. Regardless, I have yet to discover a solution that fixes the problem on either monitor.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most appreciative.
I installed the latest Beta driver - v256.26 - and it fixed the ripple on the Acer. the Alienware still has the same problem - top 10% of the screen ghosted - but the Acer appears to be 100%.
I installed the latest Beta driver - v256.26 - and it fixed the ripple on the Acer. the Alienware still has the same problem - top 10% of the screen ghosted - but the Acer appears to be 100%.
[quote name='ECEXCURSION' post='1071524' date='Jun 10 2010, 01:12 PM']Seeing as you own both monitors, which monitor do you like more?[/quote]
Well, given that the Acer has no ghosting problems at all now that I'm using the "right" driver, I would have to go with that one. I still haven't eliminated the ghosting problem on the top 10% of the the AlienWare monitor.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
[quote name='ECEXCURSION' post='1071524' date='Jun 10 2010, 01:12 PM']Seeing as you own both monitors, which monitor do you like more?
Well, given that the Acer has no ghosting problems at all now that I'm using the "right" driver, I would have to go with that one. I still haven't eliminated the ghosting problem on the top 10% of the the AlienWare monitor.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
[quote name='KirkD' post='1071542' date='Jun 10 2010, 02:33 PM']Well, given that the Acer has no ghosting problems at all now that I'm using the "right" driver, I would have to go with that one. I still haven't eliminated the ghosting problem on the top 10% of the the AlienWare monitor.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
-Kirk[/quote]
Thanks for your feedback! I'm currently gathering my data on which to buy.
[quote name='KirkD' post='1071542' date='Jun 10 2010, 02:33 PM']Well, given that the Acer has no ghosting problems at all now that I'm using the "right" driver, I would have to go with that one. I still haven't eliminated the ghosting problem on the top 10% of the the AlienWare monitor.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
-Kirk
Thanks for your feedback! I'm currently gathering my data on which to buy.
[quote name='ECEXCURSION' post='1071669' date='Jun 10 2010, 07:31 PM']Thanks for your feedback! I'm currently gathering my data on which to buy.[/quote]
You're welcome. If you have any specific questions or want any particular details, just ask.
[quote name='Azure247' post='1077222' date='Jun 23 2010, 09:00 PM']In my thread someone said its a hardware problem, but for you it was fixed through driver so the alienware monitor is a driver problem too?[/quote]
I don't know about the AlienWare problem being hardware or driver. I have yet to find a driver that fixes it, but I haven't tried every possible available driver, only the 3 or 4 latest versions. It did NOT fix it to use the latest beta driver.
[quote name='Azure247' post='1077222' date='Jun 23 2010, 09:00 PM']In my thread someone said its a hardware problem, but for you it was fixed through driver so the alienware monitor is a driver problem too?
I don't know about the AlienWare problem being hardware or driver. I have yet to find a driver that fixes it, but I haven't tried every possible available driver, only the 3 or 4 latest versions. It did NOT fix it to use the latest beta driver.
[quote name='KirkD' post='1077487' date='Jun 24 2010, 11:43 AM']I don't know about the AlienWare problem being hardware or driver. I have yet to find a driver that fixes it, but I haven't tried every possible available driver, only the 3 or 4 latest versions. It did NOT fix it to use the latest beta driver.[/quote]
The Alienware top screen ghosting likely won’t be fixed with any driver changes or anything. It is a problem inherent to LCD monitors running stereo 3D. It has to do with the fact the screens refresh not as a whole but in a top to bottom or bottom to top scan if you will. What happens is it scans to refresh the screen but the glasses shutters are opening and closing instantly so you are catching glimpses of the wrong image in the wrong eye on the top and or bottom of the screen.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.
[quote name='KirkD' post='1077487' date='Jun 24 2010, 11:43 AM']I don't know about the AlienWare problem being hardware or driver. I have yet to find a driver that fixes it, but I haven't tried every possible available driver, only the 3 or 4 latest versions. It did NOT fix it to use the latest beta driver.
The Alienware top screen ghosting likely won’t be fixed with any driver changes or anything. It is a problem inherent to LCD monitors running stereo 3D. It has to do with the fact the screens refresh not as a whole but in a top to bottom or bottom to top scan if you will. What happens is it scans to refresh the screen but the glasses shutters are opening and closing instantly so you are catching glimpses of the wrong image in the wrong eye on the top and or bottom of the screen.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.
I am currently looking at both monitors too, and keep thinking maybe I should get a DLP?
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?
I am currently looking at both monitors too, and keep thinking maybe I should get a DLP?
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?
[quote name='MistaP' post='1077505' date='Jun 24 2010, 11:20 AM']The Alienware top screen ghosting likely won’t be fixed with any driver changes or anything. It is a problem inherent to LCD monitors running stereo 3D. It has to do with the fact the screens refresh not as a whole but in a top to bottom or bottom to top scan if you will. What happens is it scans to refresh the screen but the glasses shutters are opening and closing instantly so you are catching glimpses of the wrong image in the wrong eye on the top and or bottom of the screen.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.[/quote]
Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.
[quote name='MistaP' post='1077505' date='Jun 24 2010, 11:20 AM']The Alienware top screen ghosting likely won’t be fixed with any driver changes or anything. It is a problem inherent to LCD monitors running stereo 3D. It has to do with the fact the screens refresh not as a whole but in a top to bottom or bottom to top scan if you will. What happens is it scans to refresh the screen but the glasses shutters are opening and closing instantly so you are catching glimpses of the wrong image in the wrong eye on the top and or bottom of the screen.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.
Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.
[quote name='muj' post='1077552' date='Jun 24 2010, 01:28 PM']I am currently looking at both monitors too, and keep thinking maybe I should get a DLP?
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?[/quote]To make it short and sweet. This is my opinion and I have read a lot to make it seem that it is the general consensus aswell. The Acer performs better in 3D. However, from my experience, and most other reviews I have read it is only slightly better than the Alienware and really only holds its advantage in the fact it ghosts a little less (how much ghosting bothers you is an individual thing). The Alienware performs slightly better in 2D than the Acer.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.[quote name='KirkD' post='1077562' date='Jun 24 2010, 01:54 PM']Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.[/quote]
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.
[quote name='muj' post='1077552' date='Jun 24 2010, 01:28 PM']I am currently looking at both monitors too, and keep thinking maybe I should get a DLP?
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?To make it short and sweet. This is my opinion and I have read a lot to make it seem that it is the general consensus aswell. The Acer performs better in 3D. However, from my experience, and most other reviews I have read it is only slightly better than the Alienware and really only holds its advantage in the fact it ghosts a little less (how much ghosting bothers you is an individual thing). The Alienware performs slightly better in 2D than the Acer.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.[quote name='KirkD' post='1077562' date='Jun 24 2010, 01:54 PM']Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.
[quote name='MistaP' post='1077639' date='Jun 24 2010, 04:02 PM']To make it short and sweet. This is my opinion and I have read a lot to make it seem that it is the general consensus aswell. The Acer performs better in 3D. However, from my experience, and most other reviews I have read it is only slightly better than the Alienware and really only holds its advantage in the fact it ghosts a little less (how much ghosting bothers you is an individual thing). The Alienware performs slightly better in 2D than the Acer.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.[/quote]
It may also come down to a difference in platforms. From your description, I would guess your running on a standard Windows platform. I'm running through CentOS LINUX. I'm sure the differences are significant there.
[quote name='MistaP' post='1077639' date='Jun 24 2010, 04:02 PM']To make it short and sweet. This is my opinion and I have read a lot to make it seem that it is the general consensus aswell. The Acer performs better in 3D. However, from my experience, and most other reviews I have read it is only slightly better than the Alienware and really only holds its advantage in the fact it ghosts a little less (how much ghosting bothers you is an individual thing). The Alienware performs slightly better in 2D than the Acer.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.
It may also come down to a difference in platforms. From your description, I would guess your running on a standard Windows platform. I'm running through CentOS LINUX. I'm sure the differences are significant there.
[quote name='KirkD' post='1077641' date='Jun 24 2010, 05:11 PM']It may also come down to a difference in platforms. From your description, I would guess your running on a standard Windows platform. I'm running through CentOS LINUX. I'm sure the differences are significant there.[/quote]
Yeah, Win7 Ultimate 64bit here. Likely makes a big difference as I imagine a different OS with different drivers communicates with the hardware in a significantly different manner.
One different out of sync issue (I think) that I have seen with the Alienware and the Acer is usually when 3d first pops on there are a few seconds where the screen brightness seems to pulse softly rolling from top to bottom then it normalizes. However, the rolling brightness didn’t seem to ghost any more or less than the rest of the screen. The only time this happened and after a few seconds it didn’t clear up is occasionally when alt+tabbing from the 2d desktop to a 3d game back and forth. I didn’t think of this at first but it may be similar to what your describing.
[quote name='KirkD' post='1077641' date='Jun 24 2010, 05:11 PM']It may also come down to a difference in platforms. From your description, I would guess your running on a standard Windows platform. I'm running through CentOS LINUX. I'm sure the differences are significant there.
Yeah, Win7 Ultimate 64bit here. Likely makes a big difference as I imagine a different OS with different drivers communicates with the hardware in a significantly different manner.
One different out of sync issue (I think) that I have seen with the Alienware and the Acer is usually when 3d first pops on there are a few seconds where the screen brightness seems to pulse softly rolling from top to bottom then it normalizes. However, the rolling brightness didn’t seem to ghost any more or less than the rest of the screen. The only time this happened and after a few seconds it didn’t clear up is occasionally when alt+tabbing from the 2d desktop to a 3d game back and forth. I didn’t think of this at first but it may be similar to what your describing.
For the AlienWare monitor, I have significant ghosting in the upper 10-15% of the screen. Most of the screen is usable, but I can't seem to find a way to improve that top 10-15%.
For the Acer, ghosting seems to roll from top to bottom or bottom to top (depending on the refresh rate) and once the ghosted section hits an edge, the whole screen kind of jumps.
For both monitors, I've tried to include Modelines in my xorg.conf file that are derived from the EDID information I see in my Xorg.0.log file. I think that these values are used by the xserver anyway to establish displayable modes and are likely redundant. Regardless, I have yet to discover a solution that fixes the problem on either monitor.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most appreciative.
-Kirk
For the AlienWare monitor, I have significant ghosting in the upper 10-15% of the screen. Most of the screen is usable, but I can't seem to find a way to improve that top 10-15%.
For the Acer, ghosting seems to roll from top to bottom or bottom to top (depending on the refresh rate) and once the ghosted section hits an edge, the whole screen kind of jumps.
For both monitors, I've tried to include Modelines in my xorg.conf file that are derived from the EDID information I see in my Xorg.0.log file. I think that these values are used by the xserver anyway to establish displayable modes and are likely redundant. Regardless, I have yet to discover a solution that fixes the problem on either monitor.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most appreciative.
-Kirk
I installed the latest Beta driver - v256.26 - and it fixed the ripple on the Acer. the Alienware still has the same problem - top 10% of the screen ghosted - but the Acer appears to be 100%.
-Kirk
I installed the latest Beta driver - v256.26 - and it fixed the ripple on the Acer. the Alienware still has the same problem - top 10% of the screen ghosted - but the Acer appears to be 100%.
-Kirk
Well, given that the Acer has no ghosting problems at all now that I'm using the "right" driver, I would have to go with that one. I still haven't eliminated the ghosting problem on the top 10% of the the AlienWare monitor.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
-Kirk
Well, given that the Acer has no ghosting problems at all now that I'm using the "right" driver, I would have to go with that one. I still haven't eliminated the ghosting problem on the top 10% of the the AlienWare monitor.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
-Kirk
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
-Kirk[/quote]
Thanks for your feedback! I'm currently gathering my data on which to buy.
In non-3D mode, it is a hard choice. The Acer has better contrast but isn't quite as sharp - it is a tiny bit fuzzier. Also the stand does not telescope. The AlienWare monitor has a bit sharper image, but tends to looked very washed out regardless of the settings I've tried. The telescoping stand is a nice addition. Both have fantastic picture quality compared to my old CRT, and the widescreen form provides that extra screen real estate that I was in need of.
-Kirk
Thanks for your feedback! I'm currently gathering my data on which to buy.
You're welcome. If you have any specific questions or want any particular details, just ask.
-Kirk
You're welcome. If you have any specific questions or want any particular details, just ask.
-Kirk
I don't know about the AlienWare problem being hardware or driver. I have yet to find a driver that fixes it, but I haven't tried every possible available driver, only the 3 or 4 latest versions. It did NOT fix it to use the latest beta driver.
I don't know about the AlienWare problem being hardware or driver. I have yet to find a driver that fixes it, but I haven't tried every possible available driver, only the 3 or 4 latest versions. It did NOT fix it to use the latest beta driver.
The Alienware top screen ghosting likely won’t be fixed with any driver changes or anything. It is a problem inherent to LCD monitors running stereo 3D. It has to do with the fact the screens refresh not as a whole but in a top to bottom or bottom to top scan if you will. What happens is it scans to refresh the screen but the glasses shutters are opening and closing instantly so you are catching glimpses of the wrong image in the wrong eye on the top and or bottom of the screen.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.
The Alienware top screen ghosting likely won’t be fixed with any driver changes or anything. It is a problem inherent to LCD monitors running stereo 3D. It has to do with the fact the screens refresh not as a whole but in a top to bottom or bottom to top scan if you will. What happens is it scans to refresh the screen but the glasses shutters are opening and closing instantly so you are catching glimpses of the wrong image in the wrong eye on the top and or bottom of the screen.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.[/quote]
Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.
This exists on the old Viewsonic and Samsung LCDs, aswell as the Alienware and the Acer. The Alienware is much better than the Viewsonic or Samsung in this respect but not as good as the Acer. The Acer seems to do the best job reducing ghosting it seems but the Acer still isn’t perfect either and there is plenty of documented evidence of this(If you don’t see it then likely you don’t have anything in this area of the monitor that contrasts sharply but even if you do with the Acer it is likely to be noticeable only if you look for it). Also, I have used both, and I find the Alienware after the monitor has been running at 120hz for a while will slowly lessen the ghosting up as well as if it has to warm up.
Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?[/quote]To make it short and sweet. This is my opinion and I have read a lot to make it seem that it is the general consensus aswell. The Acer performs better in 3D. However, from my experience, and most other reviews I have read it is only slightly better than the Alienware and really only holds its advantage in the fact it ghosts a little less (how much ghosting bothers you is an individual thing). The Alienware performs slightly better in 2D than the Acer.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.[quote name='KirkD' post='1077562' date='Jun 24 2010, 01:54 PM']Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.[/quote]
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.
I currently have a cheap 24" sceptre for gaming. I really only use my pc for gaming on. I want to go 3d so figured either of these two lcds (acer or alienware) but cant decide which. If I am just using it for 2d and 3d gaming, which would you recommend? I see about a $80 difference which is a factor, but not big of a deal...
Now I am wondering about DLP? I dont know much about it but is there a comparable "monitor" I could use for my pc gaming that would give me good 2d and 3d, good resolution and refresh rate? While this would cost me more, it would also give me more screen for gaming and eliminate ghosting?To make it short and sweet. This is my opinion and I have read a lot to make it seem that it is the general consensus aswell. The Acer performs better in 3D. However, from my experience, and most other reviews I have read it is only slightly better than the Alienware and really only holds its advantage in the fact it ghosts a little less (how much ghosting bothers you is an individual thing). The Alienware performs slightly better in 2D than the Acer.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.[quote name='KirkD' post='1077562' date='Jun 24 2010, 01:54 PM']Just to clarify my details relative to what you describe:
The AlienWare monitor has always had a problem with 10% of the screen showing major ghosting. This portion of the screen looks the same with or without the glasses on, and I agree, it is a problem with the refresh rate of the monitor and coordinating that with the eye toggle of the glasses. Not an easy problem to solve.
The Acer monitor when using a different driver had a similar amount of screen showing ghosting - 10% - but it would roll or ripple either bottom to top or top to bottom depending on the refresh rate that I choose. Another example of poor synchrnization.
With the newest beta driver (256.25, I think), I get zero ghosting anywhere on screen. I should point out that I'm using this for computational chemistry and computational biology, so I can't speak to game performance. But, if I go full screen, I can visualize a very complex surface (protein surface with small molecule binding) filling the entire screen with zero evidence of ghosting. I haven't seen any issues with any section of the screen or any rolling/rippling ghosting with extremely complex images using this particular driver. With any other driver, it was essentially unusable.
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.[/quote]
It may also come down to a difference in platforms. From your description, I would guess your running on a standard Windows platform. I'm running through CentOS LINUX. I'm sure the differences are significant there.
I chose the Alienware because the ghosting different, to me, was negligable, and I do game competatively (CSS) and opted for the slightly better 2D (which again is pretty negligable). To be honest also ... when I made my purchase it wasn for 3D use it was for the 120hz buttery smooth animation. You can percieve what is going on on screen just a hair faster. I got 3D as an afterthought but fell in love with it.
I will be honest. When I got a chance to check out the Acer (friend has one) I had it side by side with the Alienware. It had approximately the same 10% ghosting on the top as the Alienware it just was more faint and thus easier to ignore. I never saw the rolling strip of ghosting as you describe. I can give you my exact hardware specs at the time, but unfortuantely I am clueless as to what gpu driver and what s3d driver I was running. This was back in Febuary if that helps.
It may also come down to a difference in platforms. From your description, I would guess your running on a standard Windows platform. I'm running through CentOS LINUX. I'm sure the differences are significant there.
Yeah, Win7 Ultimate 64bit here. Likely makes a big difference as I imagine a different OS with different drivers communicates with the hardware in a significantly different manner.
One different out of sync issue (I think) that I have seen with the Alienware and the Acer is usually when 3d first pops on there are a few seconds where the screen brightness seems to pulse softly rolling from top to bottom then it normalizes. However, the rolling brightness didn’t seem to ghost any more or less than the rest of the screen. The only time this happened and after a few seconds it didn’t clear up is occasionally when alt+tabbing from the 2d desktop to a 3d game back and forth. I didn’t think of this at first but it may be similar to what your describing.
Yeah, Win7 Ultimate 64bit here. Likely makes a big difference as I imagine a different OS with different drivers communicates with the hardware in a significantly different manner.
One different out of sync issue (I think) that I have seen with the Alienware and the Acer is usually when 3d first pops on there are a few seconds where the screen brightness seems to pulse softly rolling from top to bottom then it normalizes. However, the rolling brightness didn’t seem to ghost any more or less than the rest of the screen. The only time this happened and after a few seconds it didn’t clear up is occasionally when alt+tabbing from the 2d desktop to a 3d game back and forth. I didn’t think of this at first but it may be similar to what your describing.