lg 47inch lw6500 was one of my consideration list few months ago but I decided not to coz I hear about all this input lag stuff. I saw displayed model of lw5300 or something at bestbuy thought it was ok. Who knows.. most of 3d quality come down to where it's come from. Bluray 3D works wonderful on my vizio set but 3dtv play still suffers from 720p@60fps 3d. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
lg 47inch lw6500 was one of my consideration list few months ago but I decided not to coz I hear about all this input lag stuff. I saw displayed model of lw5300 or something at bestbuy thought it was ok. Who knows.. most of 3d quality come down to where it's come from. Bluray 3D works wonderful on my vizio set but 3dtv play still suffers from 720p@60fps 3d. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
I liked the display, but after multiple firmware updates the problems still existed. Whether or not these problems were fixed in later production models, I can not say for certain.
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
I liked the display, but after multiple firmware updates the problems still existed. Whether or not these problems were fixed in later production models, I can not say for certain.
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
[quote name='amnios' date='10 December 2011 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1323503107' post='1340300']
Just thinking outloud here... I mean, if you say that your vivio has the best 2D picture quality and no where close compared to the sammy... then honestly now, how can you not tell the difference again in quality between your tv with 3dTV play vs a samsung 3DTV hooked up to a 3D vision kit doing 60 hz checkerboard or the model spcific amazing 30 hz frequency mode???
Are you suggesting that you bought the vizio with the intent to 3D, but, that instead you placed a higher value when shopping on a tvs ability to do 2D performance? If so no offence but I remember as a kid watching TV on a 14" with rabbit ears and having to bang the tvset in order to stabilize the snowy image... and I loved watching 2D then and 3D wasn't even thought of. Your 2D standards are really THAT high that you would spend the extra $$$ on a tv to get a clearly inferior 3D feature because it is better(I suggest slim marginally btw) better than say a sammy? Dat's twilight zone stuff. (incidentally can anyone remember when the last time it was that they had to bang a electronic device to get it to work? I'm thinking the late 80's for me)
ANyway I'm trying to say that as far as plain jane 2D is concerned, I think a person has gotta be pretty crticial in order to prefer one tv doing 2D over another other nowadays.... especially when that person also expects 3D out of that tv too!
So now, with 3D on the other hand I do believe that one is much better than the other at the moment... unless I'm wrong let me know why. Is it not now widely accepted that 720 fp @ 24fps on any tv is NOT better than sammys 1080 30 fps frequency mode...? and not even yet better than the checkerboard at 60 fps for FPS games?
THis is one of the stranger threads I've read on a 3D site in ahwile.
I mean, I'm not sure at what point in time that a tvs 2D image was more important than its 3D functionality... in the context of discussing on... a 3D forum website.
I'm kinda upset now actually... that people are still missing the boat given the wealth of internet data available. At least acidbong stated that his kids wont be able to tell the difference so that is why he chose his vizio... WIth that said though I'm glad as a kid I was videogaming on my AMiga... when 99.9% of the gamers who could not tell the difference were bowing down to the drastically inferior Nintendo option at the time.
P.S you can NOT eat chunky soup better with a fork than you can with a spoon. THat's crazy.
[/quote]
I am sorry for confusion. Yes, I did buy tv for 3D thing in mind coz I always wanted to get 3dtv and the price during black friday was awsome. When I got vizio set and set it up, first thing I did was set it up and turn on tv. Then I saw this netflix apps and turned it on to test it. It just blew me away. Netflix on this vizio set looks like bluray movie and looks at least 2-3 times better than netflix on pc or ps3. This picture quality and motion smoothness was just out of world compared to my 2 years old panasonic 1080p plasma. When I read reviews of this tv on amazon, all people were saying its 2d picture quality is best of the best and sammy's edge-lit led tvs are nowhere come close to this and now I am a beliver. Half of people also said 3d quality was just ok on this vizio set but I was kind of prepared for it coz I don't see any other 3dtv set with superb review on both 2d and 3d under $2000 mark. Samsung UN46D8000 was the one I really wanted to get but the price was $500 more and a lot of people were saying screen bending issue with uneven color ratio. Also pretty much everyone say 3d on sammy isn't like panasonic plasma 3d(though I hear input lag on panasonic plasma 3d stuff too). It was just hard decision to make. So I am simply giving vizio a chance even though I didn't like this brand at all. However, now I can see vizio makes very solid set and its 2d picture quality was indeed one of the best. 3d bluray movie looks decent and most of them looks better than my acer hn274h or asus vg278h. My only complain is this darn 720p@60hz 3d limitation and this is only thing that I will ever reconsider to swap it to something else. At least walmart has super good return policy so if anything better comes out in next 3 months at similar price range, I will go for it. I am too scared to go for samsung un46d8000 coz of all this light bending, uneven color issue I am hearing about. this samsung set is like $1700 at local and $1500 online. There's noway I will pay $1700 at local when I know online sells it for $1500 but then again, if anything goes wrong, I will be screwed coz I bought it online. :(
[quote name='amnios' date='10 December 2011 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1323503107' post='1340300']
Just thinking outloud here... I mean, if you say that your vivio has the best 2D picture quality and no where close compared to the sammy... then honestly now, how can you not tell the difference again in quality between your tv with 3dTV play vs a samsung 3DTV hooked up to a 3D vision kit doing 60 hz checkerboard or the model spcific amazing 30 hz frequency mode???
Are you suggesting that you bought the vizio with the intent to 3D, but, that instead you placed a higher value when shopping on a tvs ability to do 2D performance? If so no offence but I remember as a kid watching TV on a 14" with rabbit ears and having to bang the tvset in order to stabilize the snowy image... and I loved watching 2D then and 3D wasn't even thought of. Your 2D standards are really THAT high that you would spend the extra $$$ on a tv to get a clearly inferior 3D feature because it is better(I suggest slim marginally btw) better than say a sammy? Dat's twilight zone stuff. (incidentally can anyone remember when the last time it was that they had to bang a electronic device to get it to work? I'm thinking the late 80's for me)
ANyway I'm trying to say that as far as plain jane 2D is concerned, I think a person has gotta be pretty crticial in order to prefer one tv doing 2D over another other nowadays.... especially when that person also expects 3D out of that tv too!
So now, with 3D on the other hand I do believe that one is much better than the other at the moment... unless I'm wrong let me know why. Is it not now widely accepted that 720 fp @ 24fps on any tv is NOT better than sammys 1080 30 fps frequency mode...? and not even yet better than the checkerboard at 60 fps for FPS games?
THis is one of the stranger threads I've read on a 3D site in ahwile.
I mean, I'm not sure at what point in time that a tvs 2D image was more important than its 3D functionality... in the context of discussing on... a 3D forum website.
I'm kinda upset now actually... that people are still missing the boat given the wealth of internet data available. At least acidbong stated that his kids wont be able to tell the difference so that is why he chose his vizio... WIth that said though I'm glad as a kid I was videogaming on my AMiga... when 99.9% of the gamers who could not tell the difference were bowing down to the drastically inferior Nintendo option at the time.
P.S you can NOT eat chunky soup better with a fork than you can with a spoon. THat's crazy.
I am sorry for confusion. Yes, I did buy tv for 3D thing in mind coz I always wanted to get 3dtv and the price during black friday was awsome. When I got vizio set and set it up, first thing I did was set it up and turn on tv. Then I saw this netflix apps and turned it on to test it. It just blew me away. Netflix on this vizio set looks like bluray movie and looks at least 2-3 times better than netflix on pc or ps3. This picture quality and motion smoothness was just out of world compared to my 2 years old panasonic 1080p plasma. When I read reviews of this tv on amazon, all people were saying its 2d picture quality is best of the best and sammy's edge-lit led tvs are nowhere come close to this and now I am a beliver. Half of people also said 3d quality was just ok on this vizio set but I was kind of prepared for it coz I don't see any other 3dtv set with superb review on both 2d and 3d under $2000 mark. Samsung UN46D8000 was the one I really wanted to get but the price was $500 more and a lot of people were saying screen bending issue with uneven color ratio. Also pretty much everyone say 3d on sammy isn't like panasonic plasma 3d(though I hear input lag on panasonic plasma 3d stuff too). It was just hard decision to make. So I am simply giving vizio a chance even though I didn't like this brand at all. However, now I can see vizio makes very solid set and its 2d picture quality was indeed one of the best. 3d bluray movie looks decent and most of them looks better than my acer hn274h or asus vg278h. My only complain is this darn 720p@60hz 3d limitation and this is only thing that I will ever reconsider to swap it to something else. At least walmart has super good return policy so if anything better comes out in next 3 months at similar price range, I will go for it. I am too scared to go for samsung un46d8000 coz of all this light bending, uneven color issue I am hearing about. this samsung set is like $1700 at local and $1500 online. There's noway I will pay $1700 at local when I know online sells it for $1500 but then again, if anything goes wrong, I will be screwed coz I bought it online. :(
[quote name='D-Man11' date='10 December 2011 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1323504172' post='1340307']
I liked the display, but after multiple firmware updates the problems still existed. Whether or not these problems were fixed in later production models, I can not say for certain.
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
[/quote]
Firmware won't fix that kind of lag issue. It was a throughput bottleneck which required a few hardware upgrades IIRC. I didn't even consider the 42 or 47 inch personally since I was looking for the largest TV that would fit into my built in entertainment center.
[quote name='Shinobier' date='10 December 2011 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1323503382' post='1340303']
lg 47inch lw6500 was one of my consideration list few months ago but I decided not to coz I hear about all this input lag stuff. I saw displayed model of lw5300 or something at bestbuy thought it was ok. Who knows.. most of 3d quality come down to where it's come from. Bluray 3D works wonderful on my vizio set but 3dtv play still suffers from 720p@60fps 3d. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
[/quote]
I've never seen one of those Visios playing a game, but I have one of the older Eco HDs 22inch units and it is still AMAZING! My 37 inch Eco HD is about to get RMAed --I've got pixels failing in clusters. From what I can tell from looking at the passive 3D Visios at Wally World they are all externally identical the Eco HD line and save for the coating on the screen.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='10 December 2011 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1323504172' post='1340307']
I liked the display, but after multiple firmware updates the problems still existed. Whether or not these problems were fixed in later production models, I can not say for certain.
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
Firmware won't fix that kind of lag issue. It was a throughput bottleneck which required a few hardware upgrades IIRC. I didn't even consider the 42 or 47 inch personally since I was looking for the largest TV that would fit into my built in entertainment center.
[quote name='Shinobier' date='10 December 2011 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1323503382' post='1340303']
lg 47inch lw6500 was one of my consideration list few months ago but I decided not to coz I hear about all this input lag stuff. I saw displayed model of lw5300 or something at bestbuy thought it was ok. Who knows.. most of 3d quality come down to where it's come from. Bluray 3D works wonderful on my vizio set but 3dtv play still suffers from 720p@60fps 3d. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
I've never seen one of those Visios playing a game, but I have one of the older Eco HDs 22inch units and it is still AMAZING! My 37 inch Eco HD is about to get RMAed --I've got pixels failing in clusters. From what I can tell from looking at the passive 3D Visios at Wally World they are all externally identical the Eco HD line and save for the coating on the screen.
Mine is VIZIO XVT3D474SV. Everything works fine and for $1000 tv, I think it really is awsome. Even though I said 3d is big thing for me, I don't really play 3d pc games on tv since my monitor does it better and everything is already set up. It's just my ego that I want to have perfect 3dtv. :( However, there's none coz all 3dtv out there right now aren't perfect regardless how much they cost. They all use hdmi 1.4 and have some ghosting issues. I suppose it will take like 5 more years to see truely good 3dtv. Well.. I am sure, we will see plenty of glass-free 3dtv by then though.
Mine is VIZIO XVT3D474SV. Everything works fine and for $1000 tv, I think it really is awsome. Even though I said 3d is big thing for me, I don't really play 3d pc games on tv since my monitor does it better and everything is already set up. It's just my ego that I want to have perfect 3dtv. :( However, there's none coz all 3dtv out there right now aren't perfect regardless how much they cost. They all use hdmi 1.4 and have some ghosting issues. I suppose it will take like 5 more years to see truely good 3dtv. Well.. I am sure, we will see plenty of glass-free 3dtv by then though.
[quote name='Shinobier' date='10 December 2011 - 04:08 AM' timestamp='1323511702' post='1340330']
Mine is VIZIO XVT3D474SV. Everything works fine and for $1000 tv, I think it really is awsome. Even though I said 3d is big thing for me, I don't really play 3d pc games on tv since my monitor does it better and everything is already set up. It's just my ego that I want to have perfect 3dtv. :( However, there's none coz all 3dtv out there right now aren't perfect regardless how much they cost. They all use hdmi 1.4 and have some ghosting issues. I suppose it will take like 5 more years to see truely good 3dtv. Well.. I am sure, we will see plenty of glass-free 3dtv by then though.
[/quote]
I see no reason not to just be thrilled with your TV. It looks like a great unit, and will last you until glasses-free is affordable. 3D on a TV isn't 3D vision yet, and odds are it will be 5-6 years before it is, so just enjoy the way it is now :)
[quote name='Shinobier' date='10 December 2011 - 04:08 AM' timestamp='1323511702' post='1340330']
Mine is VIZIO XVT3D474SV. Everything works fine and for $1000 tv, I think it really is awsome. Even though I said 3d is big thing for me, I don't really play 3d pc games on tv since my monitor does it better and everything is already set up. It's just my ego that I want to have perfect 3dtv. :( However, there's none coz all 3dtv out there right now aren't perfect regardless how much they cost. They all use hdmi 1.4 and have some ghosting issues. I suppose it will take like 5 more years to see truely good 3dtv. Well.. I am sure, we will see plenty of glass-free 3dtv by then though.
I see no reason not to just be thrilled with your TV. It looks like a great unit, and will last you until glasses-free is affordable. 3D on a TV isn't 3D vision yet, and odds are it will be 5-6 years before it is, so just enjoy the way it is now :)
3D video games may not be "perfect" on todays 3DTVs... true....
But I think that the quality of todays video games are MUCH FARTHER from perfect compared to how far from perfect 3D performance is on tvs at the moment.
But combined... man... anyone playing Skyrim in 3D? really cool... if your a fantasy role player I mean.
P.S. now that I have a really good sammy 3DTV hooked up to 3D vision... I suppose 1 thing in the future I would be looking for is a dedicated 2D TV... I suppose then coming full cirle based on the recommendations here... I would have to say I would look at Vizio.
3D video games may not be "perfect" on todays 3DTVs... true....
But I think that the quality of todays video games are MUCH FARTHER from perfect compared to how far from perfect 3D performance is on tvs at the moment.
But combined... man... anyone playing Skyrim in 3D? really cool... if your a fantasy role player I mean.
P.S. now that I have a really good sammy 3DTV hooked up to 3D vision... I suppose 1 thing in the future I would be looking for is a dedicated 2D TV... I suppose then coming full cirle based on the recommendations here... I would have to say I would look at Vizio.
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
this is tv I wanted to buy originally. This is active 3dtv so I am not so sure .inf mod you talk about works on this model.[/quote]
This is exacty the TV that rollermod works on. Had you bought this one, you could be gaming in 1920x1080 /60 native res.
[quote] this tv didn't get a rating as good as vizio set I own.[/quote]
Forget these "some guy said" ratings, they never use the only thing that matters, 3D gaming. Nobody has ever played Portal2 in 3D on two different 3DTVs, side by side one another, and reported on the visual difference. All we have is a BluRay 3D comparison, which means nothing when it comes to 3D games.
[quote]Still, I see lots of people saying 1080p@60hz 3d isn't really 1080p@60hz 3d like on computer monitor but only checkboard says so.[/quote]
Don't be mislead. The truth is, CB is native res 1920x1080 /60, and frame sequential (like a computer monitor) is 2x 1920x1080 /60. So yes, they are different, but they are both native res 1920x1080. Don't buy into the "half the pixel count means half the perceived resolution" myth. The decrease in perceived resolution is only 1-2%. The pixel count is unimportant as long as the image is 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 native resolution.
[quote]I also do know how 1080p@60hz 3d gaming look like...... much better compared to 720p@60hz 3d. :)[/quote]
Right because 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen looks like crap. This is due to the errors in scaling, not because of pixel count. Turning on AA has no effect, no fix for this.
[quote] I am not really interested since they are 540p per eye only and never was true 1080p 3d.[/quote]
Have you done a side by side visual comparison of passive vs active?
Your so-called "true 1080P 3D" is impossible with todays 3dTVs, they are all crippled with HDMI1.4 inputs. This is Okay for all broadcast video because only 30 fps is is required. When we get HDMI1.5, you'll see only a 1-2% improvement, and then only if frame sequential mode is used.
[quote name='Shinobier' date='09 December 2011 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1323488242' post='1340243']
Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch
this is tv I wanted to buy originally. This is active 3dtv so I am not so sure .inf mod you talk about works on this model.
This is exacty the TV that rollermod works on. Had you bought this one, you could be gaming in 1920x1080 /60 native res.
this tv didn't get a rating as good as vizio set I own.
Forget these "some guy said" ratings, they never use the only thing that matters, 3D gaming. Nobody has ever played Portal2 in 3D on two different 3DTVs, side by side one another, and reported on the visual difference. All we have is a BluRay 3D comparison, which means nothing when it comes to 3D games.
Still, I see lots of people saying 1080p@60hz 3d isn't really 1080p@60hz 3d like on computer monitor but only checkboard says so.
Don't be mislead. The truth is, CB is native res 1920x1080 /60, and frame sequential (like a computer monitor) is 2x 1920x1080 /60. So yes, they are different, but they are both native res 1920x1080. Don't buy into the "half the pixel count means half the perceived resolution" myth. The decrease in perceived resolution is only 1-2%. The pixel count is unimportant as long as the image is 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 native resolution.
I also do know how 1080p@60hz 3d gaming look like...... much better compared to 720p@60hz 3d. :)
Right because 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen looks like crap. This is due to the errors in scaling, not because of pixel count. Turning on AA has no effect, no fix for this.
I am not really interested since they are 540p per eye only and never was true 1080p 3d.
Have you done a side by side visual comparison of passive vs active?
Your so-called "true 1080P 3D" is impossible with todays 3dTVs, they are all crippled with HDMI1.4 inputs. This is Okay for all broadcast video because only 30 fps is is required. When we get HDMI1.5, you'll see only a 1-2% improvement, and then only if frame sequential mode is used.
Interleaved and Checkerboard both output/display the same amount of pixels. The half resolutions are perceived as a full resolution by your brain. Checkerboard has a slightly better result in the perception by your brain.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
Interleaved and Checkerboard both output/display the same amount of pixels. The half resolutions are perceived as a full resolution by your brain. Checkerboard has a slightly better result in the perception by your brain.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='10 December 2011 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1323543148' post='1340444']
Interleaved and Checkerboard both output/display the same amount of pixels. The half resolutions are perceived as a full resolution by your brain. Checkerboard has a slightly better result in the perception by your brain.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
[/quote]
Could not have said it better. Maybe this will help dispell the "50% less pixels means 50% visual degradation" myth.
Good job, D-Man. :)
[quote name='D-Man11' date='10 December 2011 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1323543148' post='1340444']
Interleaved and Checkerboard both output/display the same amount of pixels. The half resolutions are perceived as a full resolution by your brain. Checkerboard has a slightly better result in the perception by your brain.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
Could not have said it better. Maybe this will help dispell the "50% less pixels means 50% visual degradation" myth.
Yah, it's pretty bad that people that have never tried it or seen it, continually knock it.
It looks good.
We are talking about gaming on HDTVs.
They have limited bandwidth input.
3D can be accomplished on them in a number of ways.
While the 1920x1080P@25 does not exceed the bandwidth, it is good mostly for Movies/Videos. It works well on some single player games. But falls short in more demanding games. The 720P offered in 3DTV Play, looks good on my 720P projector, not so good on the 1080P 3D HDTVs.
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.
Unless you can use a workaround like the Rollermod. But really, should you have to?
Yah, it's pretty bad that people that have never tried it or seen it, continually knock it.
It looks good.
We are talking about gaming on HDTVs.
They have limited bandwidth input.
3D can be accomplished on them in a number of ways.
While the 1920x1080P@25 does not exceed the bandwidth, it is good mostly for Movies/Videos. It works well on some single player games. But falls short in more demanding games. The 720P offered in 3DTV Play, looks good on my 720P projector, not so good on the 1080P 3D HDTVs.
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.
Unless you can use a workaround like the Rollermod. But really, should you have to?
[quote name='D-Man11' date='10 December 2011 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1323545096' post='1340458']
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.[/quote]
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='10 December 2011 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1323545096' post='1340458']
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1323546240' post='1340465']
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
[/quote]
Tridef is really solid other than not having SLI support. I've got QuadSLI and I want to use it [img]http://forums.nvidia.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wallbash.gif[/img]
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1323546240' post='1340465']
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
Tridef is really solid other than not having SLI support. I've got QuadSLI and I want to use it
ok, i just ordered Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch from amazon coz their price was amazing just now. $1381 + free shipping and 30 days price guaranteed + return.
I am going to give this one a try and compare it with my vizio set then return whichever looks worse. If this samsung beats my expectation and look better than vizio set, I will eat extra $270 and keep it and if not, this is going back to amazon in next few days. It will get here by next wednesday so we will see. :)
gosh.. comparing tvs are such a pain. either taking vizio to walmart to return or taking samsung to ups will be pain in the butt. I hope this Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch don't have exhibits poor screen uniformity with excessive brightness variation and banding issues I am hearing about.
ok, i just ordered Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch from amazon coz their price was amazing just now. $1381 + free shipping and 30 days price guaranteed + return.
I am going to give this one a try and compare it with my vizio set then return whichever looks worse. If this samsung beats my expectation and look better than vizio set, I will eat extra $270 and keep it and if not, this is going back to amazon in next few days. It will get here by next wednesday so we will see. :)
gosh.. comparing tvs are such a pain. either taking vizio to walmart to return or taking samsung to ups will be pain in the butt. I hope this Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch don't have exhibits poor screen uniformity with excessive brightness variation and banding issues I am hearing about.
Checkboard is slightly better than side by side only because the distribution of pixels is more even, instead of being directly halved either vertically or horizontally. But it's still not as good as full frame 1920x1080, and there is a noticeable difference in quality if you go looking for it.
What I've noticed is that darker, somewhat monochromatic game environments (like caves, dungeons, industrial settings, etc..) offer neglible differences between checkerboard (or any half resolution mode for that matter)and full HD. This is because the darker pixels (or pixels within the same color variance)are swaddled amongst each other with nearly the same pixel accuracy as a full HD frame. Since I'm playing Skyrim I notice this effect in the underground caves, I'm amazed how similar checkboard and 1080p 3D @ 24hz look (both high quality).
However, in environments with huge differences in pixel contrast and color hue (like rocky/grassy/road textures in daylight), there is a sizable difference in resolution quality that goes beyond aliased geometry. This is more noticable in some games than others. Gothic 3 and Gothic Forsaken Gods shows this most in my playing experience, there is a HUGE difference in checkerboard, side by side (tested with IZ3D, DDD) and 1080p 24hz (IZ3D, DDD, Nvidia) on my Samsung TV. I also notice this in the outside landscape in Skyrim, half resolution does make a difference (the only exception to this is when it snows, because again the pixels are basically monochromatic and the differences in resolution suddenly becomes much less noticable).
What I would like to see is someone or some company improve checkerboard quality by introducing an algorithm to "fill in the blanks" in a checkerboard pattern to produce a true 1080p image per eye (a la photoshop transformation function). I'm not sure if this is even possible, or even relevant considering faster HDMI chips should be coming out later in the year to provide 1080p 60hz 3D, but it seems theoretically feasible in nature.
Checkboard is slightly better than side by side only because the distribution of pixels is more even, instead of being directly halved either vertically or horizontally. But it's still not as good as full frame 1920x1080, and there is a noticeable difference in quality if you go looking for it.
What I've noticed is that darker, somewhat monochromatic game environments (like caves, dungeons, industrial settings, etc..) offer neglible differences between checkerboard (or any half resolution mode for that matter)and full HD. This is because the darker pixels (or pixels within the same color variance)are swaddled amongst each other with nearly the same pixel accuracy as a full HD frame. Since I'm playing Skyrim I notice this effect in the underground caves, I'm amazed how similar checkboard and 1080p 3D @ 24hz look (both high quality).
However, in environments with huge differences in pixel contrast and color hue (like rocky/grassy/road textures in daylight), there is a sizable difference in resolution quality that goes beyond aliased geometry. This is more noticable in some games than others. Gothic 3 and Gothic Forsaken Gods shows this most in my playing experience, there is a HUGE difference in checkerboard, side by side (tested with IZ3D, DDD) and 1080p 24hz (IZ3D, DDD, Nvidia) on my Samsung TV. I also notice this in the outside landscape in Skyrim, half resolution does make a difference (the only exception to this is when it snows, because again the pixels are basically monochromatic and the differences in resolution suddenly becomes much less noticable).
What I would like to see is someone or some company improve checkerboard quality by introducing an algorithm to "fill in the blanks" in a checkerboard pattern to produce a true 1080p image per eye (a la photoshop transformation function). I'm not sure if this is even possible, or even relevant considering faster HDMI chips should be coming out later in the year to provide 1080p 60hz 3D, but it seems theoretically feasible in nature.
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
I7 8700K
Asrock Killer Z370
G.Skill 16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
Gigabyte RTX 2080
Corsair AX1200 watts Platinum PSU
1tb Samsung 840 Evo SSD
BenQ 27 inch 4K monitor
Asus VG278H 27 inch 3D monitor
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
Just thinking outloud here... I mean, if you say that your vivio has the best 2D picture quality and no where close compared to the sammy... then honestly now, how can you not tell the difference again in quality between your tv with 3dTV play vs a samsung 3DTV hooked up to a 3D vision kit doing 60 hz checkerboard or the model spcific amazing 30 hz frequency mode???
Are you suggesting that you bought the vizio with the intent to 3D, but, that instead you placed a higher value when shopping on a tvs ability to do 2D performance? If so no offence but I remember as a kid watching TV on a 14" with rabbit ears and having to bang the tvset in order to stabilize the snowy image... and I loved watching 2D then and 3D wasn't even thought of. Your 2D standards are really THAT high that you would spend the extra $$$ on a tv to get a clearly inferior 3D feature because it is better(I suggest slim marginally btw) better than say a sammy? Dat's twilight zone stuff. (incidentally can anyone remember when the last time it was that they had to bang a electronic device to get it to work? I'm thinking the late 80's for me)
ANyway I'm trying to say that as far as plain jane 2D is concerned, I think a person has gotta be pretty crticial in order to prefer one tv doing 2D over another other nowadays.... especially when that person also expects 3D out of that tv too!
So now, with 3D on the other hand I do believe that one is much better than the other at the moment... unless I'm wrong let me know why. Is it not now widely accepted that 720 fp @ 24fps on any tv is NOT better than sammys 1080 30 fps frequency mode...? and not even yet better than the checkerboard at 60 fps for FPS games?
THis is one of the stranger threads I've read on a 3D site in ahwile.
I mean, I'm not sure at what point in time that a tvs 2D image was more important than its 3D functionality... in the context of discussing on... a 3D forum website.
I'm kinda upset now actually... that people are still missing the boat given the wealth of internet data available. At least acidbong stated that his kids wont be able to tell the difference so that is why he chose his vizio... WIth that said though I'm glad as a kid I was videogaming on my AMiga... when 99.9% of the gamers who could not tell the difference were bowing down to the drastically inferior Nintendo option at the time.
P.S you can NOT eat chunky soup better with a fork than you can with a spoon. THat's crazy.
[/quote]
I am sorry for confusion. Yes, I did buy tv for 3D thing in mind coz I always wanted to get 3dtv and the price during black friday was awsome. When I got vizio set and set it up, first thing I did was set it up and turn on tv. Then I saw this netflix apps and turned it on to test it. It just blew me away. Netflix on this vizio set looks like bluray movie and looks at least 2-3 times better than netflix on pc or ps3. This picture quality and motion smoothness was just out of world compared to my 2 years old panasonic 1080p plasma. When I read reviews of this tv on amazon, all people were saying its 2d picture quality is best of the best and sammy's edge-lit led tvs are nowhere come close to this and now I am a beliver. Half of people also said 3d quality was just ok on this vizio set but I was kind of prepared for it coz I don't see any other 3dtv set with superb review on both 2d and 3d under $2000 mark. Samsung UN46D8000 was the one I really wanted to get but the price was $500 more and a lot of people were saying screen bending issue with uneven color ratio. Also pretty much everyone say 3d on sammy isn't like panasonic plasma 3d(though I hear input lag on panasonic plasma 3d stuff too). It was just hard decision to make. So I am simply giving vizio a chance even though I didn't like this brand at all. However, now I can see vizio makes very solid set and its 2d picture quality was indeed one of the best. 3d bluray movie looks decent and most of them looks better than my acer hn274h or asus vg278h. My only complain is this darn 720p@60hz 3d limitation and this is only thing that I will ever reconsider to swap it to something else. At least walmart has super good return policy so if anything better comes out in next 3 months at similar price range, I will go for it. I am too scared to go for samsung un46d8000 coz of all this light bending, uneven color issue I am hearing about. this samsung set is like $1700 at local and $1500 online. There's noway I will pay $1700 at local when I know online sells it for $1500 but then again, if anything goes wrong, I will be screwed coz I bought it online. :(
Just thinking outloud here... I mean, if you say that your vivio has the best 2D picture quality and no where close compared to the sammy... then honestly now, how can you not tell the difference again in quality between your tv with 3dTV play vs a samsung 3DTV hooked up to a 3D vision kit doing 60 hz checkerboard or the model spcific amazing 30 hz frequency mode???
Are you suggesting that you bought the vizio with the intent to 3D, but, that instead you placed a higher value when shopping on a tvs ability to do 2D performance? If so no offence but I remember as a kid watching TV on a 14" with rabbit ears and having to bang the tvset in order to stabilize the snowy image... and I loved watching 2D then and 3D wasn't even thought of. Your 2D standards are really THAT high that you would spend the extra $$$ on a tv to get a clearly inferior 3D feature because it is better(I suggest slim marginally btw) better than say a sammy? Dat's twilight zone stuff. (incidentally can anyone remember when the last time it was that they had to bang a electronic device to get it to work? I'm thinking the late 80's for me)
ANyway I'm trying to say that as far as plain jane 2D is concerned, I think a person has gotta be pretty crticial in order to prefer one tv doing 2D over another other nowadays.... especially when that person also expects 3D out of that tv too!
So now, with 3D on the other hand I do believe that one is much better than the other at the moment... unless I'm wrong let me know why. Is it not now widely accepted that 720 fp @ 24fps on any tv is NOT better than sammys 1080 30 fps frequency mode...? and not even yet better than the checkerboard at 60 fps for FPS games?
THis is one of the stranger threads I've read on a 3D site in ahwile.
I mean, I'm not sure at what point in time that a tvs 2D image was more important than its 3D functionality... in the context of discussing on... a 3D forum website.
I'm kinda upset now actually... that people are still missing the boat given the wealth of internet data available. At least acidbong stated that his kids wont be able to tell the difference so that is why he chose his vizio... WIth that said though I'm glad as a kid I was videogaming on my AMiga... when 99.9% of the gamers who could not tell the difference were bowing down to the drastically inferior Nintendo option at the time.
P.S you can NOT eat chunky soup better with a fork than you can with a spoon. THat's crazy.
I am sorry for confusion. Yes, I did buy tv for 3D thing in mind coz I always wanted to get 3dtv and the price during black friday was awsome. When I got vizio set and set it up, first thing I did was set it up and turn on tv. Then I saw this netflix apps and turned it on to test it. It just blew me away. Netflix on this vizio set looks like bluray movie and looks at least 2-3 times better than netflix on pc or ps3. This picture quality and motion smoothness was just out of world compared to my 2 years old panasonic 1080p plasma. When I read reviews of this tv on amazon, all people were saying its 2d picture quality is best of the best and sammy's edge-lit led tvs are nowhere come close to this and now I am a beliver. Half of people also said 3d quality was just ok on this vizio set but I was kind of prepared for it coz I don't see any other 3dtv set with superb review on both 2d and 3d under $2000 mark. Samsung UN46D8000 was the one I really wanted to get but the price was $500 more and a lot of people were saying screen bending issue with uneven color ratio. Also pretty much everyone say 3d on sammy isn't like panasonic plasma 3d(though I hear input lag on panasonic plasma 3d stuff too). It was just hard decision to make. So I am simply giving vizio a chance even though I didn't like this brand at all. However, now I can see vizio makes very solid set and its 2d picture quality was indeed one of the best. 3d bluray movie looks decent and most of them looks better than my acer hn274h or asus vg278h. My only complain is this darn 720p@60hz 3d limitation and this is only thing that I will ever reconsider to swap it to something else. At least walmart has super good return policy so if anything better comes out in next 3 months at similar price range, I will go for it. I am too scared to go for samsung un46d8000 coz of all this light bending, uneven color issue I am hearing about. this samsung set is like $1700 at local and $1500 online. There's noway I will pay $1700 at local when I know online sells it for $1500 but then again, if anything goes wrong, I will be screwed coz I bought it online. :(
I7 8700K
Asrock Killer Z370
G.Skill 16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
Gigabyte RTX 2080
Corsair AX1200 watts Platinum PSU
1tb Samsung 840 Evo SSD
BenQ 27 inch 4K monitor
Asus VG278H 27 inch 3D monitor
I liked the display, but after multiple firmware updates the problems still existed. Whether or not these problems were fixed in later production models, I can not say for certain.
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
[/quote]
Firmware won't fix that kind of lag issue. It was a throughput bottleneck which required a few hardware upgrades IIRC. I didn't even consider the 42 or 47 inch personally since I was looking for the largest TV that would fit into my built in entertainment center.
[quote name='Shinobier' date='10 December 2011 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1323503382' post='1340303']
lg 47inch lw6500 was one of my consideration list few months ago but I decided not to coz I hear about all this input lag stuff. I saw displayed model of lw5300 or something at bestbuy thought it was ok. Who knows.. most of 3d quality come down to where it's come from. Bluray 3D works wonderful on my vizio set but 3dtv play still suffers from 720p@60fps 3d. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
[/quote]
I've never seen one of those Visios playing a game, but I have one of the older Eco HDs 22inch units and it is still AMAZING! My 37 inch Eco HD is about to get RMAed --I've got pixels failing in clusters. From what I can tell from looking at the passive 3D Visios at Wally World they are all externally identical the Eco HD line and save for the coating on the screen.
I liked the display, but after multiple firmware updates the problems still existed. Whether or not these problems were fixed in later production models, I can not say for certain.
I do know that the 47LW5700 I had would be somewhat lag free but would randomly get an increased lag for whatever reason. Sometimes it would not happen at all for a day or so. I do know I was having trouble with a certain Boss fight, as well as dying during double jumps way too often. Once I got another display (DLP PJ), Boss died first time and no more double jump deaths.
It has been reported that the Toshiba passive displays do not have the problems that the LG have. (had?)
Firmware won't fix that kind of lag issue. It was a throughput bottleneck which required a few hardware upgrades IIRC. I didn't even consider the 42 or 47 inch personally since I was looking for the largest TV that would fit into my built in entertainment center.
[quote name='Shinobier' date='10 December 2011 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1323503382' post='1340303']
lg 47inch lw6500 was one of my consideration list few months ago but I decided not to coz I hear about all this input lag stuff. I saw displayed model of lw5300 or something at bestbuy thought it was ok. Who knows.. most of 3d quality come down to where it's come from. Bluray 3D works wonderful on my vizio set but 3dtv play still suffers from 720p@60fps 3d. :(
Who knows.. If last batch of lg lw6500 fixed all input lag issues, it might be nice choice and if it works perfectly with 3dtv play. Oh, well.. Buying and returning tvs are just too much of pain in the butt so I will do some more research and see what kind of deal is going on for next 3 months. Watching them at bestbuy doesn't really help me coz all their visual sources are different and can't test it for input lag and stuff. If I ever decide to swap this vizio set with other one, I will probably do it once. Unplug everything from tv and box it up and return then set up new tv is such pain in the butt. :(
I've never seen one of those Visios playing a game, but I have one of the older Eco HDs 22inch units and it is still AMAZING! My 37 inch Eco HD is about to get RMAed --I've got pixels failing in clusters. From what I can tell from looking at the passive 3D Visios at Wally World they are all externally identical the Eco HD line and save for the coating on the screen.
Done.
I7 8700K
Asrock Killer Z370
G.Skill 16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
Gigabyte RTX 2080
Corsair AX1200 watts Platinum PSU
1tb Samsung 840 Evo SSD
BenQ 27 inch 4K monitor
Asus VG278H 27 inch 3D monitor
Mine is VIZIO XVT3D474SV. Everything works fine and for $1000 tv, I think it really is awsome. Even though I said 3d is big thing for me, I don't really play 3d pc games on tv since my monitor does it better and everything is already set up. It's just my ego that I want to have perfect 3dtv. :( However, there's none coz all 3dtv out there right now aren't perfect regardless how much they cost. They all use hdmi 1.4 and have some ghosting issues. I suppose it will take like 5 more years to see truely good 3dtv. Well.. I am sure, we will see plenty of glass-free 3dtv by then though.
[/quote]
I see no reason not to just be thrilled with your TV. It looks like a great unit, and will last you until glasses-free is affordable. 3D on a TV isn't 3D vision yet, and odds are it will be 5-6 years before it is, so just enjoy the way it is now :)
Mine is VIZIO XVT3D474SV. Everything works fine and for $1000 tv, I think it really is awsome. Even though I said 3d is big thing for me, I don't really play 3d pc games on tv since my monitor does it better and everything is already set up. It's just my ego that I want to have perfect 3dtv. :( However, there's none coz all 3dtv out there right now aren't perfect regardless how much they cost. They all use hdmi 1.4 and have some ghosting issues. I suppose it will take like 5 more years to see truely good 3dtv. Well.. I am sure, we will see plenty of glass-free 3dtv by then though.
I see no reason not to just be thrilled with your TV. It looks like a great unit, and will last you until glasses-free is affordable. 3D on a TV isn't 3D vision yet, and odds are it will be 5-6 years before it is, so just enjoy the way it is now :)
Done.
But I think that the quality of todays video games are MUCH FARTHER from perfect compared to how far from perfect 3D performance is on tvs at the moment.
But combined... man... anyone playing Skyrim in 3D? really cool... if your a fantasy role player I mean.
P.S. now that I have a really good sammy 3DTV hooked up to 3D vision... I suppose 1 thing in the future I would be looking for is a dedicated 2D TV... I suppose then coming full cirle based on the recommendations here... I would have to say I would look at Vizio.
But I think that the quality of todays video games are MUCH FARTHER from perfect compared to how far from perfect 3D performance is on tvs at the moment.
But combined... man... anyone playing Skyrim in 3D? really cool... if your a fantasy role player I mean.
P.S. now that I have a really good sammy 3DTV hooked up to 3D vision... I suppose 1 thing in the future I would be looking for is a dedicated 2D TV... I suppose then coming full cirle based on the recommendations here... I would have to say I would look at Vizio.
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch
this is tv I wanted to buy originally. This is active 3dtv so I am not so sure .inf mod you talk about works on this model.[/quote]
This is exacty the TV that rollermod works on. Had you bought this one, you could be gaming in 1920x1080 /60 native res.
[quote] this tv didn't get a rating as good as vizio set I own.[/quote]
Forget these "some guy said" ratings, they never use the only thing that matters, 3D gaming. Nobody has ever played Portal2 in 3D on two different 3DTVs, side by side one another, and reported on the visual difference. All we have is a BluRay 3D comparison, which means nothing when it comes to 3D games.
[quote]Still, I see lots of people saying 1080p@60hz 3d isn't really 1080p@60hz 3d like on computer monitor but only checkboard says so.[/quote]
Don't be mislead. The truth is, CB is native res 1920x1080 /60, and frame sequential (like a computer monitor) is 2x 1920x1080 /60. So yes, they are different, but they are both native res 1920x1080. Don't buy into the "half the pixel count means half the perceived resolution" myth. The decrease in perceived resolution is only 1-2%. The pixel count is unimportant as long as the image is 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 native resolution.
[quote]I also do know how 1080p@60hz 3d gaming look like...... much better compared to 720p@60hz 3d. :)[/quote]
Right because 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen looks like crap. This is due to the errors in scaling, not because of pixel count. Turning on AA has no effect, no fix for this.
[quote] I am not really interested since they are 540p per eye only and never was true 1080p 3d.[/quote]
Have you done a side by side visual comparison of passive vs active?
Your so-called "true 1080P 3D" is impossible with todays 3dTVs, they are all crippled with HDMI1.4 inputs. This is Okay for all broadcast video because only 30 fps is is required. When we get HDMI1.5, you'll see only a 1-2% improvement, and then only if frame sequential mode is used.
Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch
this is tv I wanted to buy originally. This is active 3dtv so I am not so sure .inf mod you talk about works on this model.
This is exacty the TV that rollermod works on. Had you bought this one, you could be gaming in 1920x1080 /60 native res.
Forget these "some guy said" ratings, they never use the only thing that matters, 3D gaming. Nobody has ever played Portal2 in 3D on two different 3DTVs, side by side one another, and reported on the visual difference. All we have is a BluRay 3D comparison, which means nothing when it comes to 3D games.
Don't be mislead. The truth is, CB is native res 1920x1080 /60, and frame sequential (like a computer monitor) is 2x 1920x1080 /60. So yes, they are different, but they are both native res 1920x1080. Don't buy into the "half the pixel count means half the perceived resolution" myth. The decrease in perceived resolution is only 1-2%. The pixel count is unimportant as long as the image is 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 native resolution.
Right because 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen looks like crap. This is due to the errors in scaling, not because of pixel count. Turning on AA has no effect, no fix for this.
Have you done a side by side visual comparison of passive vs active?
Your so-called "true 1080P 3D" is impossible with todays 3dTVs, they are all crippled with HDMI1.4 inputs. This is Okay for all broadcast video because only 30 fps is is required. When we get HDMI1.5, you'll see only a 1-2% improvement, and then only if frame sequential mode is used.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
Interleaved and Checkerboard both output/display the same amount of pixels. The half resolutions are perceived as a full resolution by your brain. Checkerboard has a slightly better result in the perception by your brain.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
[/quote]
Could not have said it better. Maybe this will help dispell the "50% less pixels means 50% visual degradation" myth.
Good job, D-Man. :)
Interleaved and Checkerboard both output/display the same amount of pixels. The half resolutions are perceived as a full resolution by your brain. Checkerboard has a slightly better result in the perception by your brain.
With 3D, the number of frames that must be displayed in the same amount of time is, of course, doubled.
TVs only accept a 60Hz input signal over HDMI. So, to double the frames, 120 half frames are sent within the 60 frame limit.
The TV recognizes this and pulls the two half frames out of each frame and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ (right and left) images for 3-D appearing to occur simultaneously because of persistence in the eye.
Could not have said it better. Maybe this will help dispell the "50% less pixels means 50% visual degradation" myth.
Good job, D-Man. :)
It looks good.
We are talking about gaming on HDTVs.
They have limited bandwidth input.
3D can be accomplished on them in a number of ways.
While the 1920x1080P@25 does not exceed the bandwidth, it is good mostly for Movies/Videos. It works well on some single player games. But falls short in more demanding games. The 720P offered in 3DTV Play, looks good on my 720P projector, not so good on the 1080P 3D HDTVs.
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.
Unless you can use a workaround like the Rollermod. But really, should you have to?
It looks good.
We are talking about gaming on HDTVs.
They have limited bandwidth input.
3D can be accomplished on them in a number of ways.
While the 1920x1080P@25 does not exceed the bandwidth, it is good mostly for Movies/Videos. It works well on some single player games. But falls short in more demanding games. The 720P offered in 3DTV Play, looks good on my 720P projector, not so good on the 1080P 3D HDTVs.
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.
Unless you can use a workaround like the Rollermod. But really, should you have to?
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.[/quote]
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
For whatever reason, Nvidia decided to only support the required resolutions and timings in the HDMI 1.4 specifications. This is why I say to people to use TriDef, they supply the 60 frame input containing 120 half frames that some of these HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs crave, unlike Nvidia.
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
[/quote]
Tridef is really solid other than not having SLI support. I've got QuadSLI and I want to use it [img]http://forums.nvidia.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wallbash.gif[/img]
I once told people the same thing, but after using TriDef 3D, it just isn't as good. Worse game support, worse depth, artifacts in some games, falls short of 3D Vision in many ways. And don't even get me started on iZ3D!
That said, if one is stuck with a non-native res capable 3DTV, then either TriDef 3D or even iZ3D is a better alternative than 3DTV Play. As lacking as these two alternative 3D drivers are, they support SBS mode so at least you can play your 3D games in 1920x1080 with just about any 3DTV. If these 3D alternatives don't support your game, then I'd go 2D before 3DTV Play.
Tridef is really solid other than not having SLI support. I've got QuadSLI and I want to use it
Done.
I am going to give this one a try and compare it with my vizio set then return whichever looks worse. If this samsung beats my expectation and look better than vizio set, I will eat extra $270 and keep it and if not, this is going back to amazon in next few days. It will get here by next wednesday so we will see. :)
gosh.. comparing tvs are such a pain. either taking vizio to walmart to return or taking samsung to ups will be pain in the butt. I hope this Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch don't have exhibits poor screen uniformity with excessive brightness variation and banding issues I am hearing about.
I am going to give this one a try and compare it with my vizio set then return whichever looks worse. If this samsung beats my expectation and look better than vizio set, I will eat extra $270 and keep it and if not, this is going back to amazon in next few days. It will get here by next wednesday so we will see. :)
gosh.. comparing tvs are such a pain. either taking vizio to walmart to return or taking samsung to ups will be pain in the butt. I hope this Samsung UN46D8000 46-Inch don't have exhibits poor screen uniformity with excessive brightness variation and banding issues I am hearing about.
I7 8700K
Asrock Killer Z370
G.Skill 16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
Gigabyte RTX 2080
Corsair AX1200 watts Platinum PSU
1tb Samsung 840 Evo SSD
BenQ 27 inch 4K monitor
Asus VG278H 27 inch 3D monitor
What I've noticed is that darker, somewhat monochromatic game environments (like caves, dungeons, industrial settings, etc..) offer neglible differences between checkerboard (or any half resolution mode for that matter)and full HD. This is because the darker pixels (or pixels within the same color variance)are swaddled amongst each other with nearly the same pixel accuracy as a full HD frame. Since I'm playing Skyrim I notice this effect in the underground caves, I'm amazed how similar checkboard and 1080p 3D @ 24hz look (both high quality).
However, in environments with huge differences in pixel contrast and color hue (like rocky/grassy/road textures in daylight), there is a sizable difference in resolution quality that goes beyond aliased geometry. This is more noticable in some games than others. Gothic 3 and Gothic Forsaken Gods shows this most in my playing experience, there is a HUGE difference in checkerboard, side by side (tested with IZ3D, DDD) and 1080p 24hz (IZ3D, DDD, Nvidia) on my Samsung TV. I also notice this in the outside landscape in Skyrim, half resolution does make a difference (the only exception to this is when it snows, because again the pixels are basically monochromatic and the differences in resolution suddenly becomes much less noticable).
What I would like to see is someone or some company improve checkerboard quality by introducing an algorithm to "fill in the blanks" in a checkerboard pattern to produce a true 1080p image per eye (a la photoshop transformation function). I'm not sure if this is even possible, or even relevant considering faster HDMI chips should be coming out later in the year to provide 1080p 60hz 3D, but it seems theoretically feasible in nature.
What I've noticed is that darker, somewhat monochromatic game environments (like caves, dungeons, industrial settings, etc..) offer neglible differences between checkerboard (or any half resolution mode for that matter)and full HD. This is because the darker pixels (or pixels within the same color variance)are swaddled amongst each other with nearly the same pixel accuracy as a full HD frame. Since I'm playing Skyrim I notice this effect in the underground caves, I'm amazed how similar checkboard and 1080p 3D @ 24hz look (both high quality).
However, in environments with huge differences in pixel contrast and color hue (like rocky/grassy/road textures in daylight), there is a sizable difference in resolution quality that goes beyond aliased geometry. This is more noticable in some games than others. Gothic 3 and Gothic Forsaken Gods shows this most in my playing experience, there is a HUGE difference in checkerboard, side by side (tested with IZ3D, DDD) and 1080p 24hz (IZ3D, DDD, Nvidia) on my Samsung TV. I also notice this in the outside landscape in Skyrim, half resolution does make a difference (the only exception to this is when it snows, because again the pixels are basically monochromatic and the differences in resolution suddenly becomes much less noticable).
What I would like to see is someone or some company improve checkerboard quality by introducing an algorithm to "fill in the blanks" in a checkerboard pattern to produce a true 1080p image per eye (a la photoshop transformation function). I'm not sure if this is even possible, or even relevant considering faster HDMI chips should be coming out later in the year to provide 1080p 60hz 3D, but it seems theoretically feasible in nature.
PC Console
Thermaltake Lanbox Lite
Sandy Bridge Core i5 2500
MSI mATX H67 /w 4GB DDR3
Gigabyte GTX 570 OC (780Mhz)
46" Samsung 240hz LED 3DTV
Nvidia 3DTV Play / IZ3D / Tridef (yes all 3!)
Logitech wireless keyboard/mouse
Wireless XBox 360 controller