Ways to reduce ghosting? with Asus VG236H
Hi everyone, I am new to the 3d vision community having just bought my setup, the Asus VG236H bundle, about a month and a half ago. I have been playing a few games and some seem to have none or limited ghosting while others have very noticeable and distracting ghosting, even some 3d vision ready titles (just cause 2 for me was noticeable). I was just looking for some general info for reducing ghosting if its possible. I have seen many possible fixes across the internet and am not sure which one is best. These would include getting a motherboard with usb 3.0, or setting back the usb ports to 1.0 speeds (not sure why), as well as messing with the convergence. I did try decreasing the overall brightness/contrast, and the depth of field (usually had it at 80%) which made it only slightly less noticeable. Im sure there are lots of these threads across the web and on this forum, but i was just hoping for some straight answers for if any of those fixes work, or if there are any others as everything is very overwhelming to try and sort out. Here are some of my specs if it will help:

Intel i7 920 - overclocked to 3.5 GHZ
EVGA gtx 580
Asus p6t SE
Corsair XMS3 TR3X6G1600C9 6GB triple channel
Windows 7
Now using the new 275.27 beta drivers as well

Any help would be greatly appreciated with this, just hope i don't have to spend any more money on a new mobo haha.
Hi everyone, I am new to the 3d vision community having just bought my setup, the Asus VG236H bundle, about a month and a half ago. I have been playing a few games and some seem to have none or limited ghosting while others have very noticeable and distracting ghosting, even some 3d vision ready titles (just cause 2 for me was noticeable). I was just looking for some general info for reducing ghosting if its possible. I have seen many possible fixes across the internet and am not sure which one is best. These would include getting a motherboard with usb 3.0, or setting back the usb ports to 1.0 speeds (not sure why), as well as messing with the convergence. I did try decreasing the overall brightness/contrast, and the depth of field (usually had it at 80%) which made it only slightly less noticeable. Im sure there are lots of these threads across the web and on this forum, but i was just hoping for some straight answers for if any of those fixes work, or if there are any others as everything is very overwhelming to try and sort out. Here are some of my specs if it will help:



Intel i7 920 - overclocked to 3.5 GHZ

EVGA gtx 580

Asus p6t SE

Corsair XMS3 TR3X6G1600C9 6GB triple channel

Windows 7

Now using the new 275.27 beta drivers as well



Any help would be greatly appreciated with this, just hope i don't have to spend any more money on a new mobo haha.

#1
Posted 05/20/2011 09:28 AM   
the disabling usb 2.0 trick was just something that was used to reduce ghosting because of a bug on some motherboards (mainly amd type as far as I know)
also changing the depth and convergence dont do squat for ghosting except making the two different images less contrasting, but that is pointless because why take away the depth to get rid of ghosting? then its nearly not 3d anymore.
also dont bother with the people saying to get usb 3.0 at best that just fixes the same bug as disabling usb 2.0 on certain mobo's

for me personally here are the fixes that WORK
do not adjust brightness in the name of ghosting, it will ghost as much on low brightness as on high brightness, although may not "poke out" as much.

making small changes to contrast is an excellent way to reduce ghosting [u]sometimes[/u] the reason for this is some ghosting occurs because the pixel has to much "travelling" and can not switch in time for its frame, so lowering this distance will eliminate that BUT do not change the ghosting alot, because sometimes certain games have bugs that cause ghosting and it is not the monitors fault

my final method that i have seen is effective on some games that ghost for no reason while other games doesnt is the following. go the the nvidia control panel to the 3d section and click on the "test 3d image" dont start the test though, on the right is a menu to change refresh rate, try different ones like 110hz or 100hz and make sure to "apply to all games" this will make all games refresh at these different rates and limit your fps to 55 for 110hz and so on
i have seen this completely eliminate ghosting in many games like borderlands, which had terrible ghosting before at 120hz but at 110hz the ghosting is nonexistant (and the 3d is good in that game :D )

sorry this is a little rushed of a reply so it may be a little rough

-Edited for grammar-
the disabling usb 2.0 trick was just something that was used to reduce ghosting because of a bug on some motherboards (mainly amd type as far as I know)

also changing the depth and convergence dont do squat for ghosting except making the two different images less contrasting, but that is pointless because why take away the depth to get rid of ghosting? then its nearly not 3d anymore.

also dont bother with the people saying to get usb 3.0 at best that just fixes the same bug as disabling usb 2.0 on certain mobo's



for me personally here are the fixes that WORK

do not adjust brightness in the name of ghosting, it will ghost as much on low brightness as on high brightness, although may not "poke out" as much.



making small changes to contrast is an excellent way to reduce ghosting sometimes the reason for this is some ghosting occurs because the pixel has to much "travelling" and can not switch in time for its frame, so lowering this distance will eliminate that BUT do not change the ghosting alot, because sometimes certain games have bugs that cause ghosting and it is not the monitors fault



my final method that i have seen is effective on some games that ghost for no reason while other games doesnt is the following. go the the nvidia control panel to the 3d section and click on the "test 3d image" dont start the test though, on the right is a menu to change refresh rate, try different ones like 110hz or 100hz and make sure to "apply to all games" this will make all games refresh at these different rates and limit your fps to 55 for 110hz and so on

i have seen this completely eliminate ghosting in many games like borderlands, which had terrible ghosting before at 120hz but at 110hz the ghosting is nonexistant (and the 3d is good in that game :D )



sorry this is a little rushed of a reply so it may be a little rough



-Edited for grammar-

#2
Posted 05/20/2011 03:29 PM   
It's important to understand that there are several different causes for ghosting.

There is ghosting from the display itself, which is a function of the time it takes LCD panels to transition between states, this is commonly stronger at the top of the screen, sometimes some colors will ghost, there isn't much you can do about it.

There can be ghosting caused by software delays between the driver signaling the glasses to change state and the USB port actually sending that to the emitter, this appears to be the bulk of the problems in the "Top of Screen Severe ghosting thread", where people often have complete double images for a lot of the screen, the majority of people with these issues in that thread seem to be using Athlon systems. This is where you see the fixes like plug in a USB camera, use the USB2.x port, disable some function in device manager.

Content can also affect how predominant ghosting looks, high contrast areas will display more ghosting, the LCD takes longer to change state in those cases, and LCD glasses don't block all light even when they are in their black state. You can turn the contrast down on the display and reduce this somewhat.

The Newer panels change the way they overdrive pixels per scanline effectively changing the white level in order to reduce ghosting. I suspect NVidia could provide some sort of post processing filter that did something similar, reducing the contrast near the top and bottom of the screen but it would probably have to be tuned for every individual monitor, and would likely introduce other artifacts.
It's important to understand that there are several different causes for ghosting.



There is ghosting from the display itself, which is a function of the time it takes LCD panels to transition between states, this is commonly stronger at the top of the screen, sometimes some colors will ghost, there isn't much you can do about it.



There can be ghosting caused by software delays between the driver signaling the glasses to change state and the USB port actually sending that to the emitter, this appears to be the bulk of the problems in the "Top of Screen Severe ghosting thread", where people often have complete double images for a lot of the screen, the majority of people with these issues in that thread seem to be using Athlon systems. This is where you see the fixes like plug in a USB camera, use the USB2.x port, disable some function in device manager.



Content can also affect how predominant ghosting looks, high contrast areas will display more ghosting, the LCD takes longer to change state in those cases, and LCD glasses don't block all light even when they are in their black state. You can turn the contrast down on the display and reduce this somewhat.



The Newer panels change the way they overdrive pixels per scanline effectively changing the white level in order to reduce ghosting. I suspect NVidia could provide some sort of post processing filter that did something similar, reducing the contrast near the top and bottom of the screen but it would probably have to be tuned for every individual monitor, and would likely introduce other artifacts.
#3
Posted 05/20/2011 03:30 PM   
[quote name='ERP' date='20 May 2011 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1305905437' post='1240108']
It's important to understand that there are several different causes for ghosting.

There is ghosting from the display itself, which is a function of the time it takes LCD panels to transition between states, this is commonly stronger at the top of the screen, sometimes some colors will ghost, there isn't much you can do about it.

There can be ghosting caused by software delays between the driver signaling the glasses to change state and the USB port actually sending that to the emitter, this appears to be the bulk of the problems in the "Top of Screen Severe ghosting thread", where people often have complete double images for a lot of the screen, the majority of people with these issues in that thread seem to be using Athlon systems. This is where you see the fixes like plug in a USB camera, use the USB2.x port, disable some function in device manager.

Content can also affect how predominant ghosting looks, high contrast areas will display more ghosting, the LCD takes longer to change state in those cases, and LCD glasses don't block all light even when they are in their black state. You can turn the contrast down on the display and reduce this somewhat.

The Newer panels change the way they overdrive pixels per scanline effectively changing the white level in order to reduce ghosting. I suspect NVidia could provide some sort of post processing filter that did something similar, reducing the contrast near the top and bottom of the screen but it would probably have to be tuned for every individual monitor, and would likely introduce other artifacts.
[/quote]
yes all of this is true

one point I would like to make though is that the ghosting at the top and bottem of the screen is usually very suttle and usually doesnt affect the picture too much, but there is a second kind of top bottem ghosting i have noticed that is severe and is actually caused by a bug in the software and not hardware. As a general rule of thumb adjust your screen to your liking in a game that works well with 3d vision then if you experience extreme ghosting in a different game that means it has something to with software and so your safe to leave your hardware settings alone
[quote name='ERP' date='20 May 2011 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1305905437' post='1240108']

It's important to understand that there are several different causes for ghosting.



There is ghosting from the display itself, which is a function of the time it takes LCD panels to transition between states, this is commonly stronger at the top of the screen, sometimes some colors will ghost, there isn't much you can do about it.



There can be ghosting caused by software delays between the driver signaling the glasses to change state and the USB port actually sending that to the emitter, this appears to be the bulk of the problems in the "Top of Screen Severe ghosting thread", where people often have complete double images for a lot of the screen, the majority of people with these issues in that thread seem to be using Athlon systems. This is where you see the fixes like plug in a USB camera, use the USB2.x port, disable some function in device manager.



Content can also affect how predominant ghosting looks, high contrast areas will display more ghosting, the LCD takes longer to change state in those cases, and LCD glasses don't block all light even when they are in their black state. You can turn the contrast down on the display and reduce this somewhat.



The Newer panels change the way they overdrive pixels per scanline effectively changing the white level in order to reduce ghosting. I suspect NVidia could provide some sort of post processing filter that did something similar, reducing the contrast near the top and bottom of the screen but it would probably have to be tuned for every individual monitor, and would likely introduce other artifacts.



yes all of this is true



one point I would like to make though is that the ghosting at the top and bottem of the screen is usually very suttle and usually doesnt affect the picture too much, but there is a second kind of top bottem ghosting i have noticed that is severe and is actually caused by a bug in the software and not hardware. As a general rule of thumb adjust your screen to your liking in a game that works well with 3d vision then if you experience extreme ghosting in a different game that means it has something to with software and so your safe to leave your hardware settings alone

#4
Posted 05/20/2011 04:46 PM   
@Swaglenuts

Yeah i have noticed that, with certain games that i have there is barely any ghosting to speak of (black ops, batman, bulletstorm) so I guess it really isn't an issue with the hardware that i currently have. I plan on trying both of those methods out very soon. Just a quick question though, I'm guessing you have a different monitor then me, but what do you have contrast set as that seems to work best for you?

@Erp

thanks for all the background information on ghosting, i definitely feel more informed about it. I'm thinking that's why i noticed ghosting so much in Just Cause 2 as there is a lot of high contrast areas in the game, but when it transitions to night the ghosting is non-existent.

Thanks you guys, the quick replies are really appreciated.
@Swaglenuts



Yeah i have noticed that, with certain games that i have there is barely any ghosting to speak of (black ops, batman, bulletstorm) so I guess it really isn't an issue with the hardware that i currently have. I plan on trying both of those methods out very soon. Just a quick question though, I'm guessing you have a different monitor then me, but what do you have contrast set as that seems to work best for you?



@Erp



thanks for all the background information on ghosting, i definitely feel more informed about it. I'm thinking that's why i noticed ghosting so much in Just Cause 2 as there is a lot of high contrast areas in the game, but when it transitions to night the ghosting is non-existent.



Thanks you guys, the quick replies are really appreciated.

#5
Posted 05/20/2011 06:12 PM   
[quote name='jayhawker2' date='20 May 2011 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1305915157' post='1240168']
@Swaglenuts

Yeah i have noticed that, with certain games that i have there is barely any ghosting to speak of (black ops, batman, bulletstorm) so I guess it really isn't an issue with the hardware that i currently have. I plan on trying both of those methods out very soon. Just a quick question though, I'm guessing you have a different monitor then me, but what do you have contrast set as that seems to work best for you?

[/quote]
actually i have the same monitor as you, as for contrast its different depending on the game. i start at 90 contrast and what you will see is strange shapes that are a very bright yellow type color (it looks like the reflection you get off water with a thin layer of oil on it) anyways then i just slowly lower contrast until those blotches go away and that is usually it.
after that you may still have a little ghosting at very high contrasting parts of the screen but you would have to lower the contrast to the point you cant see very well to get rid of those.
[quote name='jayhawker2' date='20 May 2011 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1305915157' post='1240168']

@Swaglenuts



Yeah i have noticed that, with certain games that i have there is barely any ghosting to speak of (black ops, batman, bulletstorm) so I guess it really isn't an issue with the hardware that i currently have. I plan on trying both of those methods out very soon. Just a quick question though, I'm guessing you have a different monitor then me, but what do you have contrast set as that seems to work best for you?





actually i have the same monitor as you, as for contrast its different depending on the game. i start at 90 contrast and what you will see is strange shapes that are a very bright yellow type color (it looks like the reflection you get off water with a thin layer of oil on it) anyways then i just slowly lower contrast until those blotches go away and that is usually it.

after that you may still have a little ghosting at very high contrasting parts of the screen but you would have to lower the contrast to the point you cant see very well to get rid of those.

#6
Posted 05/20/2011 06:45 PM   
[quote name='SWAGLENUTS' date='20 May 2011 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1305917101' post='1240176']
actually i have the same monitor as you, as for contrast its different depending on the game. i start at 90 contrast and what you will see is strange shapes that are a very bright yellow type color (it looks like the reflection you get off water with a thin layer of oil on it) anyways then i just slowly lower contrast until those blotches go away and that is usually it.
after that you may still have a little ghosting at very high contrasting parts of the screen but you would have to lower the contrast to the point you cant see very well to get rid of those.
[/quote]

Yeah the majority of the ghosting I have is a semi transparent, almost light blue, double image off of usually stationary objects in mostly mid to high level contrast areas. If its any sort of low contrast area then i have no ghosting whatsoever. I havent noticed any of the bright yellow shapes that you described, but i guess that could be the games that you are playing too.
[quote name='SWAGLENUTS' date='20 May 2011 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1305917101' post='1240176']

actually i have the same monitor as you, as for contrast its different depending on the game. i start at 90 contrast and what you will see is strange shapes that are a very bright yellow type color (it looks like the reflection you get off water with a thin layer of oil on it) anyways then i just slowly lower contrast until those blotches go away and that is usually it.

after that you may still have a little ghosting at very high contrasting parts of the screen but you would have to lower the contrast to the point you cant see very well to get rid of those.





Yeah the majority of the ghosting I have is a semi transparent, almost light blue, double image off of usually stationary objects in mostly mid to high level contrast areas. If its any sort of low contrast area then i have no ghosting whatsoever. I havent noticed any of the bright yellow shapes that you described, but i guess that could be the games that you are playing too.

#7
Posted 05/20/2011 06:52 PM   
Are you sure your glasses are charged all the way up? I've got an Asus 3D monitor but there isn't much ghosting at all for me. It can happen when there's really high contrast (anywhere on the screen) and there's also some weird over-drive situations that make "tutti fruity" ghosts toward the bottom of the screen in certain situations but overall the ghosts are quite faint. The only time I ever messed with my contrast was when I first got the monitor and I don't think those changes had any effect on the 3D mode the monitor jumps into.
Are you sure your glasses are charged all the way up? I've got an Asus 3D monitor but there isn't much ghosting at all for me. It can happen when there's really high contrast (anywhere on the screen) and there's also some weird over-drive situations that make "tutti fruity" ghosts toward the bottom of the screen in certain situations but overall the ghosts are quite faint. The only time I ever messed with my contrast was when I first got the monitor and I don't think those changes had any effect on the 3D mode the monitor jumps into.

#8
Posted 05/20/2011 11:10 PM   
I have the same monitor, I have the contrast set to 70 on it, and with the new driver I don't get much ghosting. A little bit here and there, but its pretty minimal. My computer is pretty close to yours aswell altho I got a motherboard with USB3, I7 930 and GTX 480.

The only problem I have is its damn shiny and reflects everything lol.
I have the same monitor, I have the contrast set to 70 on it, and with the new driver I don't get much ghosting. A little bit here and there, but its pretty minimal. My computer is pretty close to yours aswell altho I got a motherboard with USB3, I7 930 and GTX 480.



The only problem I have is its damn shiny and reflects everything lol.

#9
Posted 05/21/2011 12:34 AM   
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