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[quote="DHR"]Maybe saying 0 (zero) input lag is wrong...in 3D you always get input lag...what i meant it's not noticeable - almost 0, even playing FPS games (Well some "super" people may noticed). Input lag is very annoying and actually there are 3DTV (including LG models) that you feel immediately (first second). Nice list of 3DTV! Can you explain more the Motion Blur stuff??....it's present in the LG 55 LM760T? (i test that model a dont noticed problem with motion blur or something like that)[/quote] Zero added 3d input lag ;), meaning 2d input lag is the same as 3d input lag but only when using interleaved on a passive 3d system, there's no better way to 3d game on a 3dtv than interleaved imho as it has zero added input lag for 3d ;) The 2 55 lm760t had very bad motion blur in 2d with it's interpolation settings inactive, same goes for other top of the range lcd sets from manufactuers, looks like they have concentrated too much on the interpolation and not enough on the backlight scanning for 60hz content ect played at 60hz. In 2d or 3d or using the interleaved edid the lm760t allso had massive amounts of blurring/ghosting, a second image or 2 followed behind the first by quite a distance on panning shots, it should'nt be like this as proved on the 47ld920 or 47ld950 which only has the second ghsoting image a few mm apart instead of centimeters with panning sots or fast moving objects. The lm760t could only match the ld series if the 760t had interplation active and as we know interpolation adds alot of input lag. Spose what i'm trying to say is 2012 passive 3dtv's, well the one's i've tried are pretty rough with no interpolation active, and a passive 3dtv from 2010 can match a 2013 lm760t in relation to blur but with no interpolation active, no added 3d input lag due to interleaved and the best fpr filter lg ever made which has the best xtalk performance compared to any lcd plasma i've seen and i've seen a few hence the reason i never brought them. A good read, some very know;edgable people in there with good answers. [url]http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435368/what-does-the-cmr-number-on-samsung-tvs-mean-and-how-to-find-out-real-panel-refresh-rate[/url] From what i gather a good backlight scanning can make the ghosting less or more and i believe the et5b and 760t i've had recently have not a very good scanning backlight at 60hz or any hz below 60hz. et5b did have less of this ghosting than the more expensive lm760t thats classed as 800hz wether that was with interpolation or not.
DHR said:Maybe saying 0 (zero) input lag is wrong...in 3D you always get input lag...what i meant it's not noticeable - almost 0, even playing FPS games (Well some "super" people may noticed). Input lag is very annoying and actually there are 3DTV (including LG models) that you feel immediately (first second).

Nice list of 3DTV!

Can you explain more the Motion Blur stuff??....it's present in the LG 55 LM760T? (i test that model a dont noticed problem with motion blur or something like that)


Zero added 3d input lag ;), meaning 2d input lag is the same as 3d input lag but only when using interleaved on a passive 3d system, there's no better way to 3d game on a 3dtv than interleaved imho as it has zero added input lag for 3d ;)


The 2 55 lm760t had very bad motion blur in 2d with it's interpolation settings inactive, same goes for other top of the range lcd sets from manufactuers, looks like they have concentrated too much on the interpolation and not enough on the backlight scanning for 60hz content ect played at 60hz.

In 2d or 3d or using the interleaved edid the lm760t allso had massive amounts of blurring/ghosting, a second image or 2 followed behind the first by quite a distance on panning shots, it should'nt be like this as proved on the 47ld920 or 47ld950 which only has the second ghsoting image a few mm apart instead of centimeters with panning sots or fast moving objects.
The lm760t could only match the ld series if the 760t had interplation active and as we know interpolation adds alot of input lag.

Spose what i'm trying to say is 2012 passive 3dtv's, well the one's i've tried are pretty rough with no interpolation active, and a passive 3dtv from 2010 can match a 2013 lm760t in relation to blur but with no interpolation active, no added 3d input lag due to interleaved and the best fpr filter lg ever made which has the best xtalk performance compared to any lcd plasma i've seen and i've seen a few hence the reason i never brought them.

A good read, some very know;edgable people in there with good answers.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435368/what-does-the-cmr-number-on-samsung-tvs-mean-and-how-to-find-out-real-panel-refresh-rate


From what i gather a good backlight scanning can make the ghosting less or more and i believe the et5b and 760t i've had recently have not a very good scanning backlight at 60hz or any hz below 60hz.
et5b did have less of this ghosting than the more expensive lm760t thats classed as 800hz wether that was with interpolation or not.

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#16
Posted 11/14/2012 05:04 PM   
Now i get what you mean with "Motion Blur"....i noticed as well with interleaved mode (edid override) in the lm760t and other models also. The 3DTV i'm using right now (47" LW5700) the "Motion Blur" thing is not that bad with interleaved mode, but still you see it... so i dont use it. I use 3DTV Play 720p/60, is not the best resolution, but with +AA is better looking than 1080p interleaved mode. I have zero add input lag compared to 2D :) CB is not an option for Passive ones, this mode looks blurry and dark... still 720p/60 + AA looks better....so i hope one day Nvidia release SBS or TB mode to enjoy the full glory of 1080p/60 (i test with trine 2, Doom 3 BFG and Sonic Generation native SBS and looks awesome with zero add input lag compared to 2D).
Now i get what you mean with "Motion Blur"....i noticed as well with interleaved mode (edid override) in the lm760t and other models also. The 3DTV i'm using right now (47" LW5700) the "Motion Blur" thing is not that bad with interleaved mode, but still you see it... so i dont use it. I use 3DTV Play 720p/60, is not the best resolution, but with +AA is better looking than 1080p interleaved mode. I have zero add input lag compared to 2D :)

CB is not an option for Passive ones, this mode looks blurry and dark... still 720p/60 + AA looks better....so i hope one day Nvidia release SBS or TB mode to enjoy the full glory of 1080p/60 (i test with trine 2, Doom 3 BFG and Sonic Generation native SBS and looks awesome with zero add input lag compared to 2D).

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#17
Posted 11/14/2012 05:26 PM   
Strange, every 3dtv i've had has had added input lag in 3d, maybe i'm just sensitive to it. I do know that racing games become very hard to play in 3d compared to 2d or interleaved, in 2d or with interleaved i'd drive past the corners, in 3d wether sbs or framepacking my cornering would happen later so i'd have to adjust. When i swapped out a lg 450u for a toshiba passive ( never remember the model ) the tosh was much better with 3d input lag than the 450u so i'm aware that different tv's have different 3d processing times, maybe yours is really good, i'm sure i'd still notice it as input lag has been on my mind for last few years. The h5360bd i have feels the same in 2d as it does in 3d imho and that uses 3dtvplay, i find it hard to believe 3dtv's are as good as this but my mind is allways open to the possibility but i've never seen it apart from teh dlp i have now :) I hate motion blur, especially in 3d, as the interleaved mod uses no 3d proccessing it has the same blur as 2d, there are passives that are much better at this than others, that input lag on the tosh was awsome but the motion blur was terrible, thats why it got sacked. The best tv i've seen was the 47ld920 / 950, at 60hz and with interleaved it's motion blur was only mm at fast pans, the worst i've seen at 60hz/60fps was the sammy es8000 allthough in 3d it's active glasses gave zero motion blur effect. With the es8000 in front of me and zero motion blur on fast moving things in 3d i was hooked on blurless 3d gaming, the es8000 had terrible 3d lag so had to go. So i jioned the 120hz projector gang and found that the only real way to get low input lag and next to no blur 2d or 3d gaming is with 60hz using a active system or 120hz in 2d or 3d. This is why i no longer have a lcd or tv in the house. a cheap pj in conjunction with Smooth Video Project easily beats expensive 3dtv's when it comes to 3d :) or 2d, only say easily as it's a price performance thing, at a very low cost you can get better 3d than expensive 3dtv's and with zero xtalk thrown in for the price of a bag of chips
Strange, every 3dtv i've had has had added input lag in 3d, maybe i'm just sensitive to it.
I do know that racing games become very hard to play in 3d compared to 2d or interleaved, in 2d or with interleaved i'd drive past the corners, in 3d wether sbs or framepacking my cornering would happen later so i'd have to adjust.

When i swapped out a lg 450u for a toshiba passive ( never remember the model ) the tosh was much better with 3d input lag than the 450u so i'm aware that different tv's have different 3d processing times, maybe yours is really good, i'm sure i'd still notice it as input lag has been on my mind for last few years.

The h5360bd i have feels the same in 2d as it does in 3d imho and that uses 3dtvplay, i find it hard to believe 3dtv's are as good as this but my mind is allways open to the possibility but i've never seen it apart from teh dlp i have now :)

I hate motion blur, especially in 3d, as the interleaved mod uses no 3d proccessing it has the same blur as 2d, there are passives that are much better at this than others, that input lag on the tosh was awsome but the motion blur was terrible, thats why it got sacked.

The best tv i've seen was the 47ld920 / 950, at 60hz and with interleaved it's motion blur was only mm at fast pans, the worst i've seen at 60hz/60fps was the sammy es8000 allthough in 3d it's active glasses gave zero motion blur effect.
With the es8000 in front of me and zero motion blur on fast moving things in 3d i was hooked on blurless 3d gaming, the es8000 had terrible 3d lag so had to go.

So i jioned the 120hz projector gang and found that the only real way to get low input lag and next to no blur 2d or 3d gaming is with 60hz using a active system or 120hz in 2d or 3d.
This is why i no longer have a lcd or tv in the house.

a cheap pj in conjunction with Smooth Video Project easily beats expensive 3dtv's when it comes to 3d :) or 2d, only say easily as it's a price performance thing, at a very low cost you can get better 3d than expensive 3dtv's and with zero xtalk thrown in for the price of a bag of chips

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#18
Posted 11/14/2012 08:46 PM   
Im also sensitive to input lag.... My setup is: Nvidia Video Card (PC) --> HDMI 1.4 cable --> HDMI(ARC) input (PC labeled) Digital Sound Output (PC) --> Digital cable --> Sharp receiver/hometheater (i love it, sounds amazing) Always the sound is in-sync with the video in the TV when play 3D games (FP or SBS or TB) and 2D (games, movies, blu-ray)...if there a input lag i inmediatly noticed (sound out of sync).... i always have custom setup for every entry and always use isf-expert config.
Im also sensitive to input lag.... My setup is:
Nvidia Video Card (PC) --> HDMI 1.4 cable --> HDMI(ARC) input (PC labeled)
Digital Sound Output (PC) --> Digital cable --> Sharp receiver/hometheater (i love it, sounds amazing)

Always the sound is in-sync with the video in the TV when play 3D games (FP or SBS or TB) and 2D (games, movies, blu-ray)...if there a input lag i inmediatly noticed (sound out of sync).... i always have custom setup for every entry and always use isf-expert config.

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#19
Posted 11/14/2012 09:01 PM   
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