361.75 Driver
  2 / 2    
[quote="DarkStarSword"][quote="RAGEdemon"]With that money, why not use a fraction of it to hire some more people to add features and fix issues? Where the hell are the "limited resources"?[/quote]Unlimited money does not mean having skilled people they can assign to fix these issues without those people getting frustrated and quitting. Fixing bugs is shit work - the skilled devs who are capable of doing it will fix whatever they personally run into and occasionally be assigned to resolve a high profile bug, but they have more more important things to work on so they aren't assigned to seek out and fix bugs they don't care about. So, newer hires inevitably get assigned to bug work, but while they might be able to fix a couple of easy ones, they have very little chance of fixing anything difficult, and they have to be moved off bug work before they decide that perhaps nvidia wasn't their dream job after all. Plus, being new they don't fully understand the driver yet (no one can, but them even less so) so they will fix one thing, but fail to realise the full repercussions of their change and inevitably something else gets broken (sound familiar?) I've got a little 2nd hand insight into their driver, and it's damn complicated. Nvidia once proudly claimed that their single driver has more lines of code than the entire Windows operating system. Now, at the time I didn't believe them, and I certainly don't think that is something they should be proud of (too complex, no one fully understands it, too easy to break), but after what I've heard I'd be willing to believe them - their driver *IS* an operating system in it's own right, complete with it's own task scheduler.[/quote] Good points. Should also be noted that since the most talented programmers are a finite resource, you're going to naturally prioritize them being placed on growth segments (or at least potentially growth segments). But it's definitely a good point about how fixing something can easily break something else (unbeknownst to anyone at the time). And just a reminder that it's not some cynical conspiracy that's intentional. Isn't one of the supposed theories about DX12/Kronos is that it's supposed to get rid of the convoluted driver situation? In theory, I think, it's supposed to make this whole situation a lot simpler and standardized. Of course, that's kind of moot since DX12/Kronos has come too late in the game to really matter in this particular case.
DarkStarSword said:
RAGEdemon said:With that money, why not use a fraction of it to hire some more people to add features and fix issues? Where the hell are the "limited resources"?
Unlimited money does not mean having skilled people they can assign to fix these issues without those people getting frustrated and quitting. Fixing bugs is shit work - the skilled devs who are capable of doing it will fix whatever they personally run into and occasionally be assigned to resolve a high profile bug, but they have more more important things to work on so they aren't assigned to seek out and fix bugs they don't care about.

So, newer hires inevitably get assigned to bug work, but while they might be able to fix a couple of easy ones, they have very little chance of fixing anything difficult, and they have to be moved off bug work before they decide that perhaps nvidia wasn't their dream job after all. Plus, being new they don't fully understand the driver yet (no one can, but them even less so) so they will fix one thing, but fail to realise the full repercussions of their change and inevitably something else gets broken (sound familiar?)

I've got a little 2nd hand insight into their driver, and it's damn complicated. Nvidia once proudly claimed that their single driver has more lines of code than the entire Windows operating system. Now, at the time I didn't believe them, and I certainly don't think that is something they should be proud of (too complex, no one fully understands it, too easy to break), but after what I've heard I'd be willing to believe them - their driver *IS* an operating system in it's own right, complete with it's own task scheduler.


Good points. Should also be noted that since the most talented programmers are a finite resource, you're going to naturally prioritize them being placed on growth segments (or at least potentially growth segments).

But it's definitely a good point about how fixing something can easily break something else (unbeknownst to anyone at the time). And just a reminder that it's not some cynical conspiracy that's intentional.

Isn't one of the supposed theories about DX12/Kronos is that it's supposed to get rid of the convoluted driver situation? In theory, I think, it's supposed to make this whole situation a lot simpler and standardized. Of course, that's kind of moot since DX12/Kronos has come too late in the game to really matter in this particular case.

#16
Posted 01/28/2016 02:11 PM   
[quote="Flugan"]I should have been clearer. It is working perfectly fine on my system. While it doesn't solve anything I still consider it an important datapoint. Most people won't post on the forum if a feature is still working in a new driver. The bug exist regardless of how many is affected but it clearly doesn't affect all 2D surround users. While I'm not affected bugs are never fun.[/quote] And I thank you for posting the results here;) I didn't want to say that is impossible to work on your system:)) What I wanted to point out is the configuration under which I see it happening;) For example a lot of people are reporting the GPU now showing under USB Eject Icon...but for me it doesn't show:)) Probably cause are not Maxwell but Kepler or maybe cause I am using SLI? Hard to tell;) But 3D Vision works correctly so far;) so no new bug introduced there. @DarkStarSword: Completely agree with all the points there! Yes, their driver come very close to look like a Linux system in is own... Now I don't think the fact that is so HUGE is a good thing... as we can clearly see is already complicated and every complication is prone to bugs... But I still find it unacceptable to release a driver in which the features in the NVPANEL are not working or are completely broken. A subtle bug like the DX10 flag that I can understand, but the WHOLE Surround configuration utility not working I can't... If only some aspect of that utility would be broken (like not being able to select other resolutions from the list) I wouldn't make so much noise lol:)) (AND I KNOW... I am very noisy ^_^) I still think they should re-model the architecture of the driver model;)
Flugan said:I should have been clearer. It is working perfectly fine on my system.

While it doesn't solve anything I still consider it an important datapoint.
Most people won't post on the forum if a feature is still working in a new driver.

The bug exist regardless of how many is affected but it clearly doesn't affect all 2D surround users.

While I'm not affected bugs are never fun.


And I thank you for posting the results here;) I didn't want to say that is impossible to work on your system:)) What I wanted to point out is the configuration under which I see it happening;)

For example a lot of people are reporting the GPU now showing under USB Eject Icon...but for me it doesn't show:)) Probably cause are not Maxwell but Kepler or maybe cause I am using SLI? Hard to tell;)

But 3D Vision works correctly so far;) so no new bug introduced there.

@DarkStarSword:

Completely agree with all the points there!
Yes, their driver come very close to look like a Linux system in is own... Now I don't think the fact that is so HUGE is a good thing... as we can clearly see is already complicated and every complication is prone to bugs...
But I still find it unacceptable to release a driver in which the features in the NVPANEL are not working or are completely broken. A subtle bug like the DX10 flag that I can understand, but the WHOLE Surround configuration utility not working I can't... If only some aspect of that utility would be broken (like not being able to select other resolutions from the list) I wouldn't make so much noise lol:)) (AND I KNOW... I am very noisy ^_^)

I still think they should re-model the architecture of the driver model;)

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#17
Posted 01/28/2016 03:18 PM   
The "eject USB device" is showing up for some people because this driver introduced Beta features for their external GPUs being developed for Thunderbolt connections. I think it happens to people installing via the GeForce experience. I have a 980ti and I do not have this problem, I installed from the old driver site.
The "eject USB device" is showing up for some people because this driver introduced Beta features for their external GPUs being developed for Thunderbolt connections.

I think it happens to people installing via the GeForce experience.

I have a 980ti and I do not have this problem, I installed from the old driver site.

#18
Posted 01/28/2016 03:34 PM   
[quote="helifax"] I still think they should re-model the architecture of the driver model;)[/quote] Isn't that the whole point of DX12/Kronos? And the reason Nvidia unsuccessfully tried to gum up the process (Since it had a significant advantage over AMD with the current mess)?
helifax said:

I still think they should re-model the architecture of the driver model;)


Isn't that the whole point of DX12/Kronos? And the reason Nvidia unsuccessfully tried to gum up the process (Since it had a significant advantage over AMD with the current mess)?

#19
Posted 01/28/2016 03:42 PM   
[quote="Paul33993"]Isn't one of the supposed theories about DX12/Kronos is that it's supposed to get rid of the convoluted driver situation? In theory, I think, it's supposed to make this whole situation a lot simpler and standardized. Of course, that's kind of moot since DX12/Kronos has come too late in the game to really matter in this particular case.[/quote]I don't know if that is specifically a goal for DX12, but if it is it's a bit misguided because nvidia can't simply drop support for all the old APIs or old OSs, so this is new code, not replaced code - and that can only increase the complexity, not reduce it. If they were able to drop support for all old APIs and only support these new ones they probably could simplify things, but that will probably be at least 5-10 years before they can even begin thinking about doing so.
Paul33993 said:Isn't one of the supposed theories about DX12/Kronos is that it's supposed to get rid of the convoluted driver situation? In theory, I think, it's supposed to make this whole situation a lot simpler and standardized. Of course, that's kind of moot since DX12/Kronos has come too late in the game to really matter in this particular case.
I don't know if that is specifically a goal for DX12, but if it is it's a bit misguided because nvidia can't simply drop support for all the old APIs or old OSs, so this is new code, not replaced code - and that can only increase the complexity, not reduce it. If they were able to drop support for all old APIs and only support these new ones they probably could simplify things, but that will probably be at least 5-10 years before they can even begin thinking about doing so.

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#20
Posted 01/29/2016 02:38 AM   
/\ I'm not sure it's necessary the goal as much as it's the supposed result. I thought the goal was just very clear and simple standards. Standards are obviously meant to be broken, but I get the impression things will break if developers don't follow things to the letter. That's kind of one of the issues that people have reported: That it's going to make things, initially, more difficult for developers. Because you have to do things yourself and follow the rules to have them work correctly. Since they'll be no driver level hacks on the backend to fix things (like is standard nowadays... and where Nvidia's driver library is vastly superior to AMDs). So initial growing pains for developers, but once they understand what they're doing, they'll get full performance of the GPU without any black magic required from the GPU vendors (which is where the massive driver complexity has morphed from). Obviously it's not going to reduce the size/complexity of the drivers that have to support legacy APIs, but for a DX12/Kronos game, it should, in theory, mean things were done correctly and won't need all these convoluted vendor hacks in the first place.
/\

I'm not sure it's necessary the goal as much as it's the supposed result.

I thought the goal was just very clear and simple standards. Standards are obviously meant to be broken, but I get the impression things will break if developers don't follow things to the letter.

That's kind of one of the issues that people have reported: That it's going to make things, initially, more difficult for developers. Because you have to do things yourself and follow the rules to have them work correctly. Since they'll be no driver level hacks on the backend to fix things (like is standard nowadays... and where Nvidia's driver library is vastly superior to AMDs).

So initial growing pains for developers, but once they understand what they're doing, they'll get full performance of the GPU without any black magic required from the GPU vendors (which is where the massive driver complexity has morphed from).

Obviously it's not going to reduce the size/complexity of the drivers that have to support legacy APIs, but for a DX12/Kronos game, it should, in theory, mean things were done correctly and won't need all these convoluted vendor hacks in the first place.

#21
Posted 01/29/2016 12:39 PM   
From what I've read, both dx12 and Vulcan are going to require "a lot" of developer interaction. Both of these are designed to reduce "overhead", not to simplify things.
From what I've read, both dx12 and Vulcan are going to require "a lot" of developer interaction.

Both of these are designed to reduce "overhead", not to simplify things.

#22
Posted 01/29/2016 02:14 PM   
GeForce HotFix driver 361.82 [quote="PeterS@NVIDIA"]Today we released a new Hotfix driver that addresses the following issues: • Eject NVIDIA Graphics Device It can be accessed here: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4026 [/quote]
GeForce HotFix driver 361.82

PeterS@NVIDIA said:Today we released a new Hotfix driver that addresses the following issues:

• Eject NVIDIA Graphics Device

It can be accessed here:
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4026

#23
Posted 02/02/2016 04:04 PM   
I had the problem that with a clean install it was not possible to switch to surround-mode. Then I reinstalled an old driver and updated to 361.75 by doing an "express installation" (instead of a clean reinstall) and suddenly the surround-mode worked with this driver...
I had the problem that with a clean install it was not possible to switch to surround-mode. Then I reinstalled an old driver and updated to 361.75 by doing an "express installation" (instead of a clean reinstall) and suddenly the surround-mode worked with this driver...

Win 8.1 pro 64 bit, Gigabyte Z87X-D3H - i7-4770K@3.5 - 32 GB, 2x Geforce TITAN SLI (EVGA), 3x ASUS 3D-Vision-Monitors

#24
Posted 02/02/2016 06:28 PM   
I saw this in the hotfix feedback, very similar to what you are saying. [quote="David6479"]Strange, but for the last few drivers my SLI option has been missing after the first initial install. On installing directly on top of the first without a clean install or DDU gives me the SLI option back in NVCP. I didn't get the "Remove GPU icon in taskbar" but thought id try these out anyway.[/quote]
I saw this in the hotfix feedback, very similar to what you are saying.

David6479 said:Strange, but for the last few drivers my SLI option has been missing after the first initial install. On installing directly on top of the first without a clean install or DDU gives me the SLI option back in NVCP.
I didn't get the "Remove GPU icon in taskbar" but thought id try these out anyway.

#25
Posted 02/02/2016 08:11 PM   
  2 / 2    
Scroll To Top