3D Vision CPU Bottelneck: Gathering Information thread.
16 / 22
Touching base:
[color="orange"]Hi Ray!
Any new updates that you can see? It would be awesome if some kind of investigation has started?
If you recall, the developer who was assigned to look into it tried to fix an extremely niche instance of a very broad problem, but even testing that very niche "fixed" instance showed that it wasn't any better.
We're looking forward to your insight as always! :)
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad and the 3D Vision Community[/color]
[color="green"]Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately I don't have much update. Development is fully aware of the pending issue and would only mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases. I just don't have any more details than that at the moment. As soon as I do I will certainly update.
Best regards,
Ray
[/color]
Any new updates that you can see? It would be awesome if some kind of investigation has started?
If you recall, the developer who was assigned to look into it tried to fix an extremely niche instance of a very broad problem, but even testing that very niche "fixed" instance showed that it wasn't any better.
We're looking forward to your insight as always! :)
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad and the 3D Vision Community
Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately I don't have much update. Development is fully aware of the pending issue and would only mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases. I just don't have any more details than that at the moment. As soon as I do I will certainly update.
Best regards,
Ray
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
You who know about code, couldnt there be a complete fix to this cpu bottleneck problem,
What that would TaKe ? Couldnt someone make kickstarter for financing some code to get the 3D vision to an efficient level it needs to be.
Bo3b didn't you talked about something it could be done. Write 3D vision again?
But would that still reguire frequent code updating or could there just be a layer of software that just maker everything work in 3D that works in 2d ?
Couldnt that code be in the core level with mandatory sli so everything would just be done twice with different viewpoint so avoiding fixing shaders ?. Or does that stereo rendering have to come from the engine itself and the engines are all different and constantly updated ?
You know i have Little knoledge of code so if im just so off the road thats quite understandable.
You who know about code, couldnt there be a complete fix to this cpu bottleneck problem,
What that would TaKe ? Couldnt someone make kickstarter for financing some code to get the 3D vision to an efficient level it needs to be.
Bo3b didn't you talked about something it could be done. Write 3D vision again?
But would that still reguire frequent code updating or could there just be a layer of software that just maker everything work in 3D that works in 2d ?
Couldnt that code be in the core level with mandatory sli so everything would just be done twice with different viewpoint so avoiding fixing shaders ?. Or does that stereo rendering have to come from the engine itself and the engines are all different and constantly updated ?
You know i have Little knoledge of code so if im just so off the road thats quite understandable.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Hi guys,
Apologies, I ought to keep this thread updated more.
A lot of people have been asking me about what is happening with this; and posting about the 3D vision CPU Bottleneck problem/fix status on other threads such as this:
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/832496/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-core-bottleneck/1/[/url]
and this:
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1027620/3d-vision/upgrade-cpu-which-one-is-the-best-cost-x-benefit-for-3d-vision-/[/url]
and many other threads where the problem is discussed...
A month ago, I wrote to our good man Ray at NVidia, unfortunately receiving back the same response:
[color="green"]Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately I don't have much update. Development is fully aware of the pending issue and would only mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases. I just don't have any more details than that at the moment. As soon as I do I will certainly update.
Best regards,
Ray [/color]
Last week, I wrote another message to our good man, adding some of the sentiments and reactions from everyone who had something to say.
[color="orange"]Hi Ray!
Any updates on what the devs are up to?
18 months ago we had reported this problem.
I apologise if this sounds like a rant. I appreciate that the devs know what they are doing, but last time, although we had stressed that we would like them to look at the underlying driver problem affecting all games, not concentrate on a single game, they agreed and assured us they understood the problem, and they would look into it in a new driver branch.
In the new driver branch:
They declared the problem fixed (presumably universally, as no game specifics were mentioned) in driver release notes. We tested, it was not fixed.
When queried, they said it was not all games, in fact just GTA5. We tested again in GTA5, it was not fixed.
When queried, they said it was not all problems nor all games, but a very specific niche configuration of DSR + SLi and only on GTA5. We tested again for this specific scenario. It was not fixed, there was no improvement at all.
Then they say that they are aware of the problem and will investigate at some point. Rinse and repeat :)
From the evidence above, contrary to what they say,
1. It doesn't seem like they are aware of or fully appreciate the problem.
2. It doesn't seem like they understand the problem nor do they attempt to understand it, or else they wouldn't have declared it "fixed" (it was easily described in detail in numerous tests and emails that we had sent, and we had clarified many times that we wanted them to look at a general fix for all games, not a specific game, and certainly not a specific scenario in that specific game).
3. They don't want to investigate the problem, it has been 18 months and there has been no progress.
The only reply we ever seem to have from them is 'yea, we'll look into it at some point'.
It would be understandable if there were a lack of resources, but nVidia has just posted billions in record profits once again. Clearly resources are not an issue.
If it's a case of "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it", then please just tell us so we can all move onto different things.
It is a huge waste of all our efforts to investigate, test, and gather data for the devs, only to have them ignore everything, do what amounts to nothing, then declare it "fixed". After feeding back that nothing has improved, they vaguely promise that they will investigate further at some point (but let's be serious, with the above track record, would you hold your breath?)
We don't mean to be harsh Ray, but do you feel that this is acceptable?
Let's forget their notes. Would you kindly talk to the dev team/head directly to ask them where we stand on a proper investigation on a universal fix on a huge problem that affects our whole community, that they themselves have confirmed?
Out of curiosity, is the head/management aware that the dev who said he had "fixed" the problem in fact did nothing? We feel that we have been robbed of an opportunity to have this issue properly addressed by this developer - time and resources were allocated but he did nothing with it - not even attempt to understand our concerns.
I ask because this sounds like a scenario where the dev team think, in good faith, they have fixed something significant and will try to fix the rest later.
Instead, the reality is that nothing was ever fixed by the dev assigned the task, and when the "fixing" dev was confronted about it, he sheepishly painted himself into a tighter and tighter corner regarding what was "fixed", until there was no room left to manoeuvre and the whole thing was proven completely false. Good will can only go so far :)
Again, apologies for the rantish message, but in the real world, we feel you will agree that what has transpired is not acceptable by any measure. I hope you will agree that this is not how a community based around a company's products ought to be treated by said company.
Kind regards,
-- NVidia 3D Vision community.[/color]
This was a week ago. Thus far, we have had no reply. I hope I wasn't too harsh, and as said, hope that It didn't come off as too much of a rant - the poor chap is a customer service rep with little control over what happens behind the scenes, he is doing his best.
============================
[b][u]TL;DR from nVidia:[/u][/b]
If we don't hear anything back, then in all likelihood, the fix status would be somewhere between:
1. [color="orange"]"It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it"[/color]
and
2. [color="green"]"Devs mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases"[/color]
============================
[b][u]TL;DR from the community:[/u][/b]
On our end, Metalholic is in the process of building a water cooled 8700k which he hopes to run at 5GHz on all cores. He and I are planning to test this against my 7700K @ all core 5GHz in various games to see how they scale to core count/overclock/underclock; testing such things as memory speed, cache size/speed (some great insight from bo3b), uncore speed, etc.
It would be good to see exactly how these things affect the 3D vision bottleneck, which would hopefully allow us to select upgrade paths which best benefit 3D vision, in an effort to mitigate this problem as much as we can as a community.
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad
Apologies, I ought to keep this thread updated more.
A lot of people have been asking me about what is happening with this; and posting about the 3D vision CPU Bottleneck problem/fix status on other threads such as this:
and many other threads where the problem is discussed...
A month ago, I wrote to our good man Ray at NVidia, unfortunately receiving back the same response:
Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately I don't have much update. Development is fully aware of the pending issue and would only mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases. I just don't have any more details than that at the moment. As soon as I do I will certainly update.
Best regards,
Ray
Last week, I wrote another message to our good man, adding some of the sentiments and reactions from everyone who had something to say.
Hi Ray!
Any updates on what the devs are up to?
18 months ago we had reported this problem.
I apologise if this sounds like a rant. I appreciate that the devs know what they are doing, but last time, although we had stressed that we would like them to look at the underlying driver problem affecting all games, not concentrate on a single game, they agreed and assured us they understood the problem, and they would look into it in a new driver branch.
In the new driver branch:
They declared the problem fixed (presumably universally, as no game specifics were mentioned) in driver release notes. We tested, it was not fixed.
When queried, they said it was not all games, in fact just GTA5. We tested again in GTA5, it was not fixed.
When queried, they said it was not all problems nor all games, but a very specific niche configuration of DSR + SLi and only on GTA5. We tested again for this specific scenario. It was not fixed, there was no improvement at all.
Then they say that they are aware of the problem and will investigate at some point. Rinse and repeat :)
From the evidence above, contrary to what they say,
1. It doesn't seem like they are aware of or fully appreciate the problem.
2. It doesn't seem like they understand the problem nor do they attempt to understand it, or else they wouldn't have declared it "fixed" (it was easily described in detail in numerous tests and emails that we had sent, and we had clarified many times that we wanted them to look at a general fix for all games, not a specific game, and certainly not a specific scenario in that specific game).
3. They don't want to investigate the problem, it has been 18 months and there has been no progress.
The only reply we ever seem to have from them is 'yea, we'll look into it at some point'.
It would be understandable if there were a lack of resources, but nVidia has just posted billions in record profits once again. Clearly resources are not an issue.
If it's a case of "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it", then please just tell us so we can all move onto different things.
It is a huge waste of all our efforts to investigate, test, and gather data for the devs, only to have them ignore everything, do what amounts to nothing, then declare it "fixed". After feeding back that nothing has improved, they vaguely promise that they will investigate further at some point (but let's be serious, with the above track record, would you hold your breath?)
We don't mean to be harsh Ray, but do you feel that this is acceptable?
Let's forget their notes. Would you kindly talk to the dev team/head directly to ask them where we stand on a proper investigation on a universal fix on a huge problem that affects our whole community, that they themselves have confirmed?
Out of curiosity, is the head/management aware that the dev who said he had "fixed" the problem in fact did nothing? We feel that we have been robbed of an opportunity to have this issue properly addressed by this developer - time and resources were allocated but he did nothing with it - not even attempt to understand our concerns.
I ask because this sounds like a scenario where the dev team think, in good faith, they have fixed something significant and will try to fix the rest later.
Instead, the reality is that nothing was ever fixed by the dev assigned the task, and when the "fixing" dev was confronted about it, he sheepishly painted himself into a tighter and tighter corner regarding what was "fixed", until there was no room left to manoeuvre and the whole thing was proven completely false. Good will can only go so far :)
Again, apologies for the rantish message, but in the real world, we feel you will agree that what has transpired is not acceptable by any measure. I hope you will agree that this is not how a community based around a company's products ought to be treated by said company.
Kind regards,
-- NVidia 3D Vision community.
This was a week ago. Thus far, we have had no reply. I hope I wasn't too harsh, and as said, hope that It didn't come off as too much of a rant - the poor chap is a customer service rep with little control over what happens behind the scenes, he is doing his best.
============================
TL;DR from nVidia:
If we don't hear anything back, then in all likelihood, the fix status would be somewhere between:
1. "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it"
and
2. "Devs mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases"
============================
TL;DR from the community:
On our end, Metalholic is in the process of building a water cooled 8700k which he hopes to run at 5GHz on all cores. He and I are planning to test this against my 7700K @ all core 5GHz in various games to see how they scale to core count/overclock/underclock; testing such things as memory speed, cache size/speed (some great insight from bo3b), uncore speed, etc.
It would be good to see exactly how these things affect the 3D vision bottleneck, which would hopefully allow us to select upgrade paths which best benefit 3D vision, in an effort to mitigate this problem as much as we can as a community.
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Thank you very much for the update, and btw you were too gentle . Now we know it for sure - nvidia do not give a shit about it. we have to accept it and move on
Thank you very much for the update, and btw you were too gentle . Now we know it for sure - nvidia do not give a shit about it. we have to accept it and move on
An update from our man Ray. He writes:
[color="green"]Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of the office. I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and I'm in agreement that we were premature to declare this issue fixed. I've updated the bug and provided new data to suggest otherwise but haven't seen any update from development yet. In fact I argued that bug should be re-open considering the data from the new driver did not show any improvement in the case development suggest should improve.
I feel terrible that all the community efforts to help with our investigation have not yielded any improvement. I'm doing my best to push the issue forward and included all data/comments received so development has all the data to investigate. I do see development actively discussing the issue and including their own data in the bug status, so I know they are genuinely putting in efforts to improve the performance. I'm disappointed that these efforts have not produced any improvement. Our internal GTA5 performance data measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is On previously and after the fix we were measuring 41% drop in FPS. With the fix we saw a gain around 20% in FPS. I don't understand why these improvements are not seen in the field with the same game. I bug was marked fixed based on these improvements.
I'll update once I can discuss with the development manager.
Best regards,
Ray[/color]
[color="orange"]
Hi Ray,
Thank you for the reply. We do appreciate that it is not your fault and that you have little control over things. You're our hero regardless :)
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad
[/color]
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of the office. I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and I'm in agreement that we were premature to declare this issue fixed. I've updated the bug and provided new data to suggest otherwise but haven't seen any update from development yet. In fact I argued that bug should be re-open considering the data from the new driver did not show any improvement in the case development suggest should improve.
I feel terrible that all the community efforts to help with our investigation have not yielded any improvement. I'm doing my best to push the issue forward and included all data/comments received so development has all the data to investigate. I do see development actively discussing the issue and including their own data in the bug status, so I know they are genuinely putting in efforts to improve the performance. I'm disappointed that these efforts have not produced any improvement. Our internal GTA5 performance data measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is On previously and after the fix we were measuring 41% drop in FPS. With the fix we saw a gain around 20% in FPS. I don't understand why these improvements are not seen in the field with the same game. I bug was marked fixed based on these improvements.
I'll update once I can discuss with the development manager.
Best regards,
Ray
Hi Ray,
Thank you for the reply. We do appreciate that it is not your fault and that you have little control over things. You're our hero regardless :)
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I'm very grateful to you for your efforts, don't stop pls. But...
"If it's a case of "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it", then please just tell us so we can all move onto different things."
The last reply from Ray looks very similar, doesn't it ? for example: "I do see development actively discussing the issue"
I'm very grateful to you for your efforts, don't stop pls. But...
"If it's a case of "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it", then please just tell us so we can all move onto different things."
The last reply from Ray looks very similar, doesn't it ? for example: "I do see development actively discussing the issue"
That's true mate, but at least we got a deeper reply instead of a canned response.
I was disappointed after finding out that the bug had been closed, but it's good to know he is trying to have it re-opened. Hopefully they won't look at the niche GTA5 DSR SLI scenario, but generally what is going on in other games too.
I think the old adage about "Assume the worst, but hope for the best" holds true here. "They are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys."
What I find quite intriguing is this part:
[color="green"]"Our internal GTA5 performance data measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is On previously and after the fix we were measuring 41% drop in FPS"[/color]
Basically, NVidia themselves have confirmed that, when properly working, [b][u]3D Vision does NOT cause a 50% drop in performance[/u][/b] due to having to render from 2 different perspectives, as has been a common misconception for a long time - the drop is much closer to the 35%, as tests had shown, many, many years ago.
That's true mate, but at least we got a deeper reply instead of a canned response.
I was disappointed after finding out that the bug had been closed, but it's good to know he is trying to have it re-opened. Hopefully they won't look at the niche GTA5 DSR SLI scenario, but generally what is going on in other games too.
I think the old adage about "Assume the worst, but hope for the best" holds true here. "They are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys."
What I find quite intriguing is this part:
"Our internal GTA5 performance data measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is On previously and after the fix we were measuring 41% drop in FPS"
Basically, NVidia themselves have confirmed that, when properly working, 3D Vision does NOT cause a 50% drop in performance due to having to render from 2 different perspectives, as has been a common misconception for a long time - the drop is much closer to the 35%, as tests had shown, many, many years ago.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2
It would be fun to put hard Numbers on the table about how much money NVIDIAs gonna loose when all of us move to AMD.
I wonder do they get it that 3D vision is about the only reasonthey sell gpu power to us every year, and its the only reason why i don't even look at other cards. It would be fun to know how much that would cumulate into.
It would be fun to put hard Numbers on the table about how much money NVIDIAs gonna loose when all of us move to AMD.
I wonder do they get it that 3D vision is about the only reasonthey sell gpu power to us every year, and its the only reason why i don't even look at other cards. It would be fun to know how much that would cumulate into.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2
Nvidia never stop suprising in the bad way. I sent back my recent 1080 TI to Amazon just for this cause, for the noise/heat (incredible at that price) and because the rejection I have to this company for many other reasons. I really don't feel good supporting this company with my money, and of course they don't care anything about it.
Nvidia never stop suprising in the bad way. I sent back my recent 1080 TI to Amazon just for this cause, for the noise/heat (incredible at that price) and because the rejection I have to this company for many other reasons. I really don't feel good supporting this company with my money, and of course they don't care anything about it.
I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread, but Vanquish is the WORST example I've ever seen about CPU performance in 3D (I don't have GTAV, mind you). This is in the tutorial:
- No 3D in the control panel: 180-190fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D disabled ingame: 160fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D enabled ingame: 46-48fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D disabled ingame, with Helix wrapper: 140-150fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D enabled ingame, with Helix wrapper: 41-43fps.
This is a fast paced game, so I deem it unplayable in 3D because I can't get 60fps per eye in any way, not even 50fps for 100Hz (and my fix is incomplete anyway).
I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread, but Vanquish is the WORST example I've ever seen about CPU performance in 3D (I don't have GTAV, mind you). This is in the tutorial:
- No 3D in the control panel: 180-190fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D disabled ingame: 160fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D enabled ingame: 46-48fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D disabled ingame, with Helix wrapper: 140-150fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D enabled ingame, with Helix wrapper: 41-43fps.
This is a fast paced game, so I deem it unplayable in 3D because I can't get 60fps per eye in any way, not even 50fps for 100Hz (and my fix is incomplete anyway).
Hi Ray!
Any new updates that you can see? It would be awesome if some kind of investigation has started?
If you recall, the developer who was assigned to look into it tried to fix an extremely niche instance of a very broad problem, but even testing that very niche "fixed" instance showed that it wasn't any better.
We're looking forward to your insight as always! :)
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad and the 3D Vision Community
Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately I don't have much update. Development is fully aware of the pending issue and would only mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases. I just don't have any more details than that at the moment. As soon as I do I will certainly update.
Best regards,
Ray
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z
What that would TaKe ? Couldnt someone make kickstarter for financing some code to get the 3D vision to an efficient level it needs to be.
Bo3b didn't you talked about something it could be done. Write 3D vision again?
But would that still reguire frequent code updating or could there just be a layer of software that just maker everything work in 3D that works in 2d ?
Couldnt that code be in the core level with mandatory sli so everything would just be done twice with different viewpoint so avoiding fixing shaders ?. Or does that stereo rendering have to come from the engine itself and the engines are all different and constantly updated ?
You know i have Little knoledge of code so if im just so off the road thats quite understandable.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Apologies, I ought to keep this thread updated more.
A lot of people have been asking me about what is happening with this; and posting about the 3D vision CPU Bottleneck problem/fix status on other threads such as this:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/832496/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-core-bottleneck/1/
and this:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1027620/3d-vision/upgrade-cpu-which-one-is-the-best-cost-x-benefit-for-3d-vision-/
and many other threads where the problem is discussed...
A month ago, I wrote to our good man Ray at NVidia, unfortunately receiving back the same response:
Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately I don't have much update. Development is fully aware of the pending issue and would only mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases. I just don't have any more details than that at the moment. As soon as I do I will certainly update.
Best regards,
Ray
Last week, I wrote another message to our good man, adding some of the sentiments and reactions from everyone who had something to say.
Hi Ray!
Any updates on what the devs are up to?
18 months ago we had reported this problem.
I apologise if this sounds like a rant. I appreciate that the devs know what they are doing, but last time, although we had stressed that we would like them to look at the underlying driver problem affecting all games, not concentrate on a single game, they agreed and assured us they understood the problem, and they would look into it in a new driver branch.
In the new driver branch:
They declared the problem fixed (presumably universally, as no game specifics were mentioned) in driver release notes. We tested, it was not fixed.
When queried, they said it was not all games, in fact just GTA5. We tested again in GTA5, it was not fixed.
When queried, they said it was not all problems nor all games, but a very specific niche configuration of DSR + SLi and only on GTA5. We tested again for this specific scenario. It was not fixed, there was no improvement at all.
Then they say that they are aware of the problem and will investigate at some point. Rinse and repeat :)
From the evidence above, contrary to what they say,
1. It doesn't seem like they are aware of or fully appreciate the problem.
2. It doesn't seem like they understand the problem nor do they attempt to understand it, or else they wouldn't have declared it "fixed" (it was easily described in detail in numerous tests and emails that we had sent, and we had clarified many times that we wanted them to look at a general fix for all games, not a specific game, and certainly not a specific scenario in that specific game).
3. They don't want to investigate the problem, it has been 18 months and there has been no progress.
The only reply we ever seem to have from them is 'yea, we'll look into it at some point'.
It would be understandable if there were a lack of resources, but nVidia has just posted billions in record profits once again. Clearly resources are not an issue.
If it's a case of "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it", then please just tell us so we can all move onto different things.
It is a huge waste of all our efforts to investigate, test, and gather data for the devs, only to have them ignore everything, do what amounts to nothing, then declare it "fixed". After feeding back that nothing has improved, they vaguely promise that they will investigate further at some point (but let's be serious, with the above track record, would you hold your breath?)
We don't mean to be harsh Ray, but do you feel that this is acceptable?
Let's forget their notes. Would you kindly talk to the dev team/head directly to ask them where we stand on a proper investigation on a universal fix on a huge problem that affects our whole community, that they themselves have confirmed?
Out of curiosity, is the head/management aware that the dev who said he had "fixed" the problem in fact did nothing? We feel that we have been robbed of an opportunity to have this issue properly addressed by this developer - time and resources were allocated but he did nothing with it - not even attempt to understand our concerns.
I ask because this sounds like a scenario where the dev team think, in good faith, they have fixed something significant and will try to fix the rest later.
Instead, the reality is that nothing was ever fixed by the dev assigned the task, and when the "fixing" dev was confronted about it, he sheepishly painted himself into a tighter and tighter corner regarding what was "fixed", until there was no room left to manoeuvre and the whole thing was proven completely false. Good will can only go so far :)
Again, apologies for the rantish message, but in the real world, we feel you will agree that what has transpired is not acceptable by any measure. I hope you will agree that this is not how a community based around a company's products ought to be treated by said company.
Kind regards,
-- NVidia 3D Vision community.
This was a week ago. Thus far, we have had no reply. I hope I wasn't too harsh, and as said, hope that It didn't come off as too much of a rant - the poor chap is a customer service rep with little control over what happens behind the scenes, he is doing his best.
============================
TL;DR from nVidia:
If we don't hear anything back, then in all likelihood, the fix status would be somewhere between:
1. "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it"
and
2. "Devs mentioned that they do plan on more optimizations in future releases"
============================
TL;DR from the community:
On our end, Metalholic is in the process of building a water cooled 8700k which he hopes to run at 5GHz on all cores. He and I are planning to test this against my 7700K @ all core 5GHz in various games to see how they scale to core count/overclock/underclock; testing such things as memory speed, cache size/speed (some great insight from bo3b), uncore speed, etc.
It would be good to see exactly how these things affect the 3D vision bottleneck, which would hopefully allow us to select upgrade paths which best benefit 3D vision, in an effort to mitigate this problem as much as we can as a community.
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of the office. I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and I'm in agreement that we were premature to declare this issue fixed. I've updated the bug and provided new data to suggest otherwise but haven't seen any update from development yet. In fact I argued that bug should be re-open considering the data from the new driver did not show any improvement in the case development suggest should improve.
I feel terrible that all the community efforts to help with our investigation have not yielded any improvement. I'm doing my best to push the issue forward and included all data/comments received so development has all the data to investigate. I do see development actively discussing the issue and including their own data in the bug status, so I know they are genuinely putting in efforts to improve the performance. I'm disappointed that these efforts have not produced any improvement. Our internal GTA5 performance data measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is On previously and after the fix we were measuring 41% drop in FPS. With the fix we saw a gain around 20% in FPS. I don't understand why these improvements are not seen in the field with the same game. I bug was marked fixed based on these improvements.
I'll update once I can discuss with the development manager.
Best regards,
Ray
Hi Ray,
Thank you for the reply. We do appreciate that it is not your fault and that you have little control over things. You're our hero regardless :)
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
"If it's a case of "It's a dead, End Of Life technology that we no longer support, but we have to pretend we do to prevent negative PR so we'll say we will look into it until you all forget about it", then please just tell us so we can all move onto different things."
The last reply from Ray looks very similar, doesn't it ? for example: "I do see development actively discussing the issue"
I was disappointed after finding out that the bug had been closed, but it's good to know he is trying to have it re-opened. Hopefully they won't look at the niche GTA5 DSR SLI scenario, but generally what is going on in other games too.
I think the old adage about "Assume the worst, but hope for the best" holds true here. "They are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys."
What I find quite intriguing is this part:
"Our internal GTA5 performance data measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is On previously and after the fix we were measuring 41% drop in FPS"
Basically, NVidia themselves have confirmed that, when properly working, 3D Vision does NOT cause a 50% drop in performance due to having to render from 2 different perspectives, as has been a common misconception for a long time - the drop is much closer to the 35%, as tests had shown, many, many years ago.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Gaming Rig 1
i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO
Gaming Rig 2
My new build
Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2
;-)
I wonder do they get it that 3D vision is about the only reasonthey sell gpu power to us every year, and its the only reason why i don't even look at other cards. It would be fun to know how much that would cumulate into.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Gaming Rig 1
i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO
Gaming Rig 2
My new build
Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2
- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 660 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)
- No 3D in the control panel: 180-190fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D disabled ingame: 160fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D enabled ingame: 46-48fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D disabled ingame, with Helix wrapper: 140-150fps.
- 3D in the control panel, 3D enabled ingame, with Helix wrapper: 41-43fps.
This is a fast paced game, so I deem it unplayable in 3D because I can't get 60fps per eye in any way, not even 50fps for 100Hz (and my fix is incomplete anyway).
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com