I think he grew these "spikes" cuz somewhere deep down in his heart he knows: this thread would been ridiculed over avsforum.com long ago. Similarly to other jackassery topics here.
I think he grew these "spikes" cuz somewhere deep down in his heart he knows: this thread would been ridiculed over avsforum.com long ago. Similarly to other jackassery topics here.
I have been following this thread with interest, and it is a shame to see the discussion degenerate into the abusive tone of the last few posts.
My interest in this is as follows. I have recently purchased an LG50PX990 3DTV in the UK, and am using it as the main monitor for a gaming PC with a GTX580. The LG screen supports 1080p checkerboard as a 3d input mode, and that mode works fine with the Tridef 3D drivers. Like Roller11, Nobsi and Bobeggy, I think the removal of support for 1080p checkerboard in the 3DTV play software is a big disappointment. I would like the option to use the Nvidia 3D support at 1080p checkerboard rather than having to rely on Tridef, and the functionality has already been there in the Nvidia driver and removed. Some of the posts here have claimed little difference between 720p and 1080p 3D modes. In my view, this is nonsense: I can tell them apart within seconds.
As Roller11 has argued, Nvidia appears to have been prepared to sacrifice image quality in order to deliver 3D software which has widest possible compatibility and requires no user input in selecting 3D mode on the screen. For the remotely advanced user, the loss of the 1080p checkerboard mode is a big one.
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is [b]Andrew at Nvidia[/b]. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.
But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........
I have been following this thread with interest, and it is a shame to see the discussion degenerate into the abusive tone of the last few posts.
My interest in this is as follows. I have recently purchased an LG50PX990 3DTV in the UK, and am using it as the main monitor for a gaming PC with a GTX580. The LG screen supports 1080p checkerboard as a 3d input mode, and that mode works fine with the Tridef 3D drivers. Like Roller11, Nobsi and Bobeggy, I think the removal of support for 1080p checkerboard in the 3DTV play software is a big disappointment. I would like the option to use the Nvidia 3D support at 1080p checkerboard rather than having to rely on Tridef, and the functionality has already been there in the Nvidia driver and removed. Some of the posts here have claimed little difference between 720p and 1080p 3D modes. In my view, this is nonsense: I can tell them apart within seconds.
As Roller11 has argued, Nvidia appears to have been prepared to sacrifice image quality in order to deliver 3D software which has widest possible compatibility and requires no user input in selecting 3D mode on the screen. For the remotely advanced user, the loss of the 1080p checkerboard mode is a big one.
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.
But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
[quote name='FBX' date='26 January 2011 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1296036167' post='1183780']
no registry hack?
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
[/quote]
If you play games at 720p, that is the actual resolution that the screen is rendered and transmitted to the TV. The TV than has to upscale the picture to fit onto the 1080p display. Playing a game in 1080p (checkerboard mode or not) transmitts the frames in 1080p (the native HDTV resolution) to the TV, so no upscaling is required. This is one of the advantages of the 1080p 3D checkerboard mode.
[quote]The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.[/quote]
I would also like to see a response from Andrew regarding the results of the internal discussion about the return of checkerboard support.
[quote name='FBX' date='26 January 2011 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1296036167' post='1183780']
no registry hack?
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
If you play games at 720p, that is the actual resolution that the screen is rendered and transmitted to the TV. The TV than has to upscale the picture to fit onto the 1080p display. Playing a game in 1080p (checkerboard mode or not) transmitts the frames in 1080p (the native HDTV resolution) to the TV, so no upscaling is required. This is one of the advantages of the 1080p 3D checkerboard mode.
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
I would also like to see a response from Andrew regarding the results of the internal discussion about the return of checkerboard support.
I would also like to see a response from Andrew regarding the results of the internal discussion about the return of checkerboard support.
[/quote]
in addition to
i hope to support generic crt mode on 3dtv play(samsung include page flip(frame packing) mode in their 3d mode)
it is superior to checkerboard mode
it is only possible to use windowed s3d mode
nvidia made good 3d web site 3dlive.com a month ago
but only in generic crt mode we can see that site flawlessly
[quote name='barza' date='26 January 2011 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1296030886' post='1183752']
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is [b]Andrew at Nvidia[/b]. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.[/quote]
On LGs, is checkerboard mode disabled (grayed out) by default like the Samsungs?
It isn't surprising that Andrew hasn't updated us. Even if he sincerely intends to push for checkerboard, he doesn't want to give us any encouragement only to disappoint us if he can't make it happen. I doubt he will make any announcement, good or bad, we'll just have to wait for the next driver release to find out if we get what we want, and new releases seem to happen in terms of months.
I would like to see the whole structure change. Now, game profiles are embedded in driver release. A better way would be for new game profiles to be kept and accessible indepentdent of driver, and then merged by user into any driver version that's installed on the computer. In this scheme, users could stay with checkerboard enabled 258.xx drivers and then D/L the individual game updates as needed.
[quote] Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.[/quote]
Fine, just make sure that the nag screen goes away. Nvidia could have made the "no stereo signal detected" nag overlay go away on an automatic timeout, as they did with the "non-supported resolution" overlay which lasts only 2-3 seconds. But they choose not to, so everyone using checkerboard enabled drivers (.i.e. 258.xx drivers) gets checkerboard, but they have to build their own squarewave generator to suppress the nag. The generator is cheap and not terribly difficult, still....
The only slight complication is that the software must account for those 2010 3D ready TVs that don't offer checkerboard, so both checkerboard and 720P framepacked must be selectable. Since 720P results in automatic 3D invocation, it would be reasonable that 720P be the default in 3D Vision setup, and at the same time, provide an option button for those who want checkerboard. Of course I really don't care how they do it, just as long as checkerboard is available when doing 3D Vision set up.
[quote]But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........ [/quote]
Apparently, Nvidia is immuned to embarrassment.:)
Speaking of TriDef, I just tried their free download and discovered they are doing a better job than iZ3D on visual quality. In both CoD Black Ops and Medal of honor, TriDef was significantly 'cleaner'. iZ3D had a very good look overall, but TriDef was it's equal, plus had cleaned up some signicant artifacts that were present in iZ3D.
Thanks to ndlrjajdlfo for bringing this to my attention.
Still, it's important for Nvidia to join the checkerboard party cause you can never have too much game support.
[quote name='barza' date='26 January 2011 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1296030886' post='1183752']
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
On LGs, is checkerboard mode disabled (grayed out) by default like the Samsungs?
It isn't surprising that Andrew hasn't updated us. Even if he sincerely intends to push for checkerboard, he doesn't want to give us any encouragement only to disappoint us if he can't make it happen. I doubt he will make any announcement, good or bad, we'll just have to wait for the next driver release to find out if we get what we want, and new releases seem to happen in terms of months.
I would like to see the whole structure change. Now, game profiles are embedded in driver release. A better way would be for new game profiles to be kept and accessible indepentdent of driver, and then merged by user into any driver version that's installed on the computer. In this scheme, users could stay with checkerboard enabled 258.xx drivers and then D/L the individual game updates as needed.
Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.
Fine, just make sure that the nag screen goes away. Nvidia could have made the "no stereo signal detected" nag overlay go away on an automatic timeout, as they did with the "non-supported resolution" overlay which lasts only 2-3 seconds. But they choose not to, so everyone using checkerboard enabled drivers (.i.e. 258.xx drivers) gets checkerboard, but they have to build their own squarewave generator to suppress the nag. The generator is cheap and not terribly difficult, still....
The only slight complication is that the software must account for those 2010 3D ready TVs that don't offer checkerboard, so both checkerboard and 720P framepacked must be selectable. Since 720P results in automatic 3D invocation, it would be reasonable that 720P be the default in 3D Vision setup, and at the same time, provide an option button for those who want checkerboard. Of course I really don't care how they do it, just as long as checkerboard is available when doing 3D Vision set up.
But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........
Apparently, Nvidia is immuned to embarrassment.:)
Speaking of TriDef, I just tried their free download and discovered they are doing a better job than iZ3D on visual quality. In both CoD Black Ops and Medal of honor, TriDef was significantly 'cleaner'. iZ3D had a very good look overall, but TriDef was it's equal, plus had cleaned up some signicant artifacts that were present in iZ3D.
Thanks to ndlrjajdlfo for bringing this to my attention.
Still, it's important for Nvidia to join the checkerboard party cause you can never have too much game support.
Thanks for the info about Tridef,nvidia can keep there 1920*1080*24,I would think Tridef is getting a fair amount of business.Runs great on my samsung 3dhdtv.
Thanks for the info about Tridef,nvidia can keep there 1920*1080*24,I would think Tridef is getting a fair amount of business.Runs great on my samsung 3dhdtv.
[quote name='cybereality' date='23 January 2011 - 04:50 AM' timestamp='1295776247' post='1182081']
Its obvious Nvidia has no interest in actually providing the customer what they want. [/quote]
Let's see if they come up with a solution that provides 1080P for some TV's. Hopefully they will.... I think they need to make it clear as day about the 1080P support though. If I bought a TV thinking I was getting 1080P 3D and it only did 720P, I would be very upset... I can understand they want things uniform but having some TV's doing 1080P might push some manufacturers to provide the same...
Also, where are the fancy 27 inch 3D monitors at? That would be good enough for me... This 23.6" Acer is getting long in the tooth... I'm about the shelf this altogether...
[quote name='cybereality' date='23 January 2011 - 04:50 AM' timestamp='1295776247' post='1182081']
Its obvious Nvidia has no interest in actually providing the customer what they want.
Let's see if they come up with a solution that provides 1080P for some TV's. Hopefully they will.... I think they need to make it clear as day about the 1080P support though. If I bought a TV thinking I was getting 1080P 3D and it only did 720P, I would be very upset... I can understand they want things uniform but having some TV's doing 1080P might push some manufacturers to provide the same...
Also, where are the fancy 27 inch 3D monitors at? That would be good enough for me... This 23.6" Acer is getting long in the tooth... I'm about the shelf this altogether...
So I was TV shopping last Saturday(my new tv arrives this Saturday) and I went in the store convinced I was going to buy the Aquos 60" LCD 240HZ.
THe sales guy pointed me instead to the Samsung PN58C7000 for $2000 and he gave me a stand and the tv came with the blueray player and glasess. I didn't even want a 3DTV because last I had checked they wont allow me to play 3d games on my PC. But I got it anyway because even $2000 for a 58" tv is ok I guess.
So I get home and start poking around the internet and yada yada here is THIS thread.
conclusions...
a) I'm glad I bought a 3D tv
b) I'm glad I bought a Samsung
Now I'm not smart like these guys on this thread. But I can google and learn and I don't give up. And people like on this thread seem to be helpful anyway. So here is my rant to NVIDIA if indeed they are the main problem right now...
This 720p business is silly and so is 24HZ 1080. 720p looks barely playable on my 25 inch monitor with AA enabled! I own 3 GTX 280's in SLI(willing to upgrade yo) and I'm going to use 25% of it to play at 720P on my 3DTV(if SLI is compatible with 3Dplay at all?). What a waste.
Here is my suggestions to Nvidia if it matters. I just dropped $2000 of a TV. I've spent good money on your cards... so do the update these guys are talking about and charge us for your time. You think the money I spent on my $2000 TV and my $3000 "gaming" PC is going to stop me from forking over whatever, $100, $200, $300 ??? In order to get high res 3D? You think I'm broke or something?
You underestimate how much money your customers are prepared to drop to play video games. You underestimate how much sacrifice we make to play games or how much we search forums for tweaks and how to's and info. You underestimate how many relationships we are prepared to lose and have lost because of computers and gaming. Don't be so silly. Your a business. Do the update, charge us and everyone goes home happy.
Because I can only think that it is money that is keeping you from doing this by the sounds of this thread. There is no technical reason is there? By the way $40 for 3DTV play is a silly price. You could have made it do 1080p on compatible tv's and charged even $99 and all those people who dont have the right TV to do 1080P would STILL have bought it.
I don't want to tell you how to run your business but clearly you have no idea who's got the money, where the heck it is, and/or how to get it.
Your company is like a bear hunter who pitches bait all around the forest, instead of just placing it next to the trap.
So I was TV shopping last Saturday(my new tv arrives this Saturday) and I went in the store convinced I was going to buy the Aquos 60" LCD 240HZ.
THe sales guy pointed me instead to the Samsung PN58C7000 for $2000 and he gave me a stand and the tv came with the blueray player and glasess. I didn't even want a 3DTV because last I had checked they wont allow me to play 3d games on my PC. But I got it anyway because even $2000 for a 58" tv is ok I guess.
So I get home and start poking around the internet and yada yada here is THIS thread.
conclusions...
a) I'm glad I bought a 3D tv
b) I'm glad I bought a Samsung
Now I'm not smart like these guys on this thread. But I can google and learn and I don't give up. And people like on this thread seem to be helpful anyway. So here is my rant to NVIDIA if indeed they are the main problem right now...
This 720p business is silly and so is 24HZ 1080. 720p looks barely playable on my 25 inch monitor with AA enabled! I own 3 GTX 280's in SLI(willing to upgrade yo) and I'm going to use 25% of it to play at 720P on my 3DTV(if SLI is compatible with 3Dplay at all?). What a waste.
Here is my suggestions to Nvidia if it matters. I just dropped $2000 of a TV. I've spent good money on your cards... so do the update these guys are talking about and charge us for your time. You think the money I spent on my $2000 TV and my $3000 "gaming" PC is going to stop me from forking over whatever, $100, $200, $300 ??? In order to get high res 3D? You think I'm broke or something?
You underestimate how much money your customers are prepared to drop to play video games. You underestimate how much sacrifice we make to play games or how much we search forums for tweaks and how to's and info. You underestimate how many relationships we are prepared to lose and have lost because of computers and gaming. Don't be so silly. Your a business. Do the update, charge us and everyone goes home happy.
Because I can only think that it is money that is keeping you from doing this by the sounds of this thread. There is no technical reason is there? By the way $40 for 3DTV play is a silly price. You could have made it do 1080p on compatible tv's and charged even $99 and all those people who dont have the right TV to do 1080P would STILL have bought it.
I don't want to tell you how to run your business but clearly you have no idea who's got the money, where the heck it is, and/or how to get it.
Your company is like a bear hunter who pitches bait all around the forest, instead of just placing it next to the trap.
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
LOL! Great post amnios.
Normally I would agreed with your "it's all about the money" comment. In this case, it's all about execising bad judgement. See post #52. Andrew, nvidia's 3D product manager, says:
" We currently are not looking to add formats that require end user interaction to switch the TV into that mode. Do you really want that? Is it more important for you to get that resolution or to have automatic 3D enable/disalbe from the source device?"
I was shocked that Andrew would assume that gamers would be perfectly happy with bad image quality if it meant that they don't have to be bothered with pushing a button on the remote.
This discussion is about 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play, but consider this: 3DTV Play is competing directly against iZ3D and Tridef-3D. They both offer hi quality checkerboard mode whereas 3DTV Play offers only ugly low quality 720P. Who in the world would buy bad quality when they could buy hi quality for the same price?
Also, consider this: The products 3D Vision and 3DTV Play both went through internal several design reviews during it's developement process. You would think that some design engineer or marketing person at these meetings would have raised their hand and said "uhh, Andrew, there's a gigantic problem...if you implement auto switching you'll be subjecting users to hideous scaled 720P on 1080P displays. No gamer will accept that, we'll have a mutiny on our hands." So there were dozens of people who knew about this collosal blunder, and nobody said a word.
Normally I would agreed with your "it's all about the money" comment. In this case, it's all about execising bad judgement. See post #52. Andrew, nvidia's 3D product manager, says:
" We currently are not looking to add formats that require end user interaction to switch the TV into that mode. Do you really want that? Is it more important for you to get that resolution or to have automatic 3D enable/disalbe from the source device?"
I was shocked that Andrew would assume that gamers would be perfectly happy with bad image quality if it meant that they don't have to be bothered with pushing a button on the remote.
This discussion is about 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play, but consider this: 3DTV Play is competing directly against iZ3D and Tridef-3D. They both offer hi quality checkerboard mode whereas 3DTV Play offers only ugly low quality 720P. Who in the world would buy bad quality when they could buy hi quality for the same price?
Also, consider this: The products 3D Vision and 3DTV Play both went through internal several design reviews during it's developement process. You would think that some design engineer or marketing person at these meetings would have raised their hand and said "uhh, Andrew, there's a gigantic problem...if you implement auto switching you'll be subjecting users to hideous scaled 720P on 1080P displays. No gamer will accept that, we'll have a mutiny on our hands." So there were dozens of people who knew about this collosal blunder, and nobody said a word.
As a PC gamer with limited knowledge... I'm just going to choose whichever system works the best. The money is not as important as quality generally speaking. At the same time I'm not dumping $4000 on a 3DTV so I'm somewhat hypocritical.
But I want to thank you for suggesting several alternatives to NVIDIA's solution.
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy. But it's even more ironic that in the face of that, I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition.
As a PC gamer with limited knowledge... I'm just going to choose whichever system works the best. The money is not as important as quality generally speaking. At the same time I'm not dumping $4000 on a 3DTV so I'm somewhat hypocritical.
But I want to thank you for suggesting several alternatives to NVIDIA's solution.
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy. But it's even more ironic that in the face of that, I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition.
Samsung +1
Nvidia -1
Nvidia Forum Members +1
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
[quote name='amnios' date='02 February 2011 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1296683896' post='1187967']
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy.[/quote]
Yes ineed, check this out:
I had a checkerboard Samsung 55C7000 last spring. I got it to play 3D games, but when I went to the nvidia 3D Vision site it wasn't listed. I called cus support, they said "can't do 3D Vision". Disappointed, I sent it back to Amazon and used a 50" plasma to play games for 6 months in 2D. Talk about irony, that 55c7000 played games in 3D Vision perfectly, Nvidia cheated me out of 6 months of 3D gaming due to their error of omission. Worse, the omission was intentional. Nvidia knew all along that the 55c7000 is superb 3D display, they just said "won't work" because the user must push a botton on their remote to invoke 3D mode. Since 3D wasn't totally automatic, it didn't do 3D AT ALL according to nvidia. How is nvidia going to compensate me for my irreplaceable loss?
[quote] I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition. [/quote]
I wish I had understood that last November when I bought a Sony 3D Ready. I did so because according to nvidia, all of the 2010 HDTVs didn't do 3D Vision, and so 3D Play was my only choice. Since 3DTV Play is purely 720P, I was doomed to 720P on both Sony and Samsung so I went with Sony. Then Nobsi posted that checkerboard is possible under 3D Vision w/Samsung, so I ditched the Sony in favor of my current Samsung plasma and gaming has never been so much fun.
So denying customers checkerboard is the second worst thing nvidia did. Deceiving customers into thinking 2010 Samsungs won't do 3D Vision has done even more damage.
[quote name='amnios' date='02 February 2011 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1296683896' post='1187967']
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy.
Yes ineed, check this out:
I had a checkerboard Samsung 55C7000 last spring. I got it to play 3D games, but when I went to the nvidia 3D Vision site it wasn't listed. I called cus support, they said "can't do 3D Vision". Disappointed, I sent it back to Amazon and used a 50" plasma to play games for 6 months in 2D. Talk about irony, that 55c7000 played games in 3D Vision perfectly, Nvidia cheated me out of 6 months of 3D gaming due to their error of omission. Worse, the omission was intentional. Nvidia knew all along that the 55c7000 is superb 3D display, they just said "won't work" because the user must push a botton on their remote to invoke 3D mode. Since 3D wasn't totally automatic, it didn't do 3D AT ALL according to nvidia. How is nvidia going to compensate me for my irreplaceable loss?
I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition.
I wish I had understood that last November when I bought a Sony 3D Ready. I did so because according to nvidia, all of the 2010 HDTVs didn't do 3D Vision, and so 3D Play was my only choice. Since 3DTV Play is purely 720P, I was doomed to 720P on both Sony and Samsung so I went with Sony. Then Nobsi posted that checkerboard is possible under 3D Vision w/Samsung, so I ditched the Sony in favor of my current Samsung plasma and gaming has never been so much fun.
So denying customers checkerboard is the second worst thing nvidia did. Deceiving customers into thinking 2010 Samsungs won't do 3D Vision has done even more damage.
Thank you for making me recently buy your 3D Vision kit and thank you also for making me begin to learn how to solder(no cold joints yo) and for making me begin to learn how to make a 555 timer so that I can get 1080P 60hz checkerboard on my new 1.4 Samsung 58` 3DTV without some crazy error message flashing on my brain.
All this learning is so much fun if not obviously a huge huge drain on my time... that could be better used gaming.
But of course pushing a button on my TV remote would have been easier but it`s your game and your rules I guess... Good luck with your automatic discovery andor ease of use technology. I prefer instead to work hard and get good rewards for it... Robert Frost said it best in his famous poem the road not taken. I`d tell you to look it up on google but I`ll instead give you the link, because I believe that simple things should be left truly simple...
Thank you for making me recently buy your 3D Vision kit and thank you also for making me begin to learn how to solder(no cold joints yo) and for making me begin to learn how to make a 555 timer so that I can get 1080P 60hz checkerboard on my new 1.4 Samsung 58` 3DTV without some crazy error message flashing on my brain.
All this learning is so much fun if not obviously a huge huge drain on my time... that could be better used gaming.
But of course pushing a button on my TV remote would have been easier but it`s your game and your rules I guess... Good luck with your automatic discovery andor ease of use technology. I prefer instead to work hard and get good rewards for it... Robert Frost said it best in his famous poem the road not taken. I`d tell you to look it up on google but I`ll instead give you the link, because I believe that simple things should be left truly simple...
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
After reading this entire thread, I am still confused.
Recently I bought a Mitsubishi DLP TV (model 73-738) that came with a couple of 3D glasses (still in the box) via a rebate. I've build a HTPC with a NVidia GT430 video card. My main rig has a NVidia GTX570, which I hope to connect to the Mitsubishi once in a while to play 3D games.
Which software do I need? 3D Vision or 3DTV Play? If I understand this thread correctly, 3DTV Play will play 3D BluRay at 1080p24 checkerboard, but not 1080p60 for gaming (only 720p60). I will be able to use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses I have now, or DLP link glasses.
On the other hand, with the latest version of 3D Vision I can play game and 3D BluRay at 720p60 only, not 1080p60 because the Mitsubishi DLP is HDMI 1.4 standard. And I couldn't use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses, nor DLP link glasses. Only NVidia 3D glasses works with 3D Vision.
Do I get everything right?
As for the manual switching on the TV to view 3D content, I believe my TV requires me to do that anyway through its menu, regardless the source. It's not a big deal, really. Count me in for requesting 3DTV Play to output 1080p60 checkerboard.
After reading this entire thread, I am still confused.
Recently I bought a Mitsubishi DLP TV (model 73-738) that came with a couple of 3D glasses (still in the box) via a rebate. I've build a HTPC with a NVidia GT430 video card. My main rig has a NVidia GTX570, which I hope to connect to the Mitsubishi once in a while to play 3D games.
Which software do I need? 3D Vision or 3DTV Play? If I understand this thread correctly, 3DTV Play will play 3D BluRay at 1080p24 checkerboard, but not 1080p60 for gaming (only 720p60). I will be able to use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses I have now, or DLP link glasses.
On the other hand, with the latest version of 3D Vision I can play game and 3D BluRay at 720p60 only, not 1080p60 because the Mitsubishi DLP is HDMI 1.4 standard. And I couldn't use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses, nor DLP link glasses. Only NVidia 3D glasses works with 3D Vision.
Do I get everything right?
As for the manual switching on the TV to view 3D content, I believe my TV requires me to do that anyway through its menu, regardless the source. It's not a big deal, really. Count me in for requesting 3DTV Play to output 1080p60 checkerboard.
My interest in this is as follows. I have recently purchased an LG50PX990 3DTV in the UK, and am using it as the main monitor for a gaming PC with a GTX580. The LG screen supports 1080p checkerboard as a 3d input mode, and that mode works fine with the Tridef 3D drivers. Like Roller11, Nobsi and Bobeggy, I think the removal of support for 1080p checkerboard in the 3DTV play software is a big disappointment. I would like the option to use the Nvidia 3D support at 1080p checkerboard rather than having to rely on Tridef, and the functionality has already been there in the Nvidia driver and removed. Some of the posts here have claimed little difference between 720p and 1080p 3D modes. In my view, this is nonsense: I can tell them apart within seconds.
As Roller11 has argued, Nvidia appears to have been prepared to sacrifice image quality in order to deliver 3D software which has widest possible compatibility and requires no user input in selecting 3D mode on the screen. For the remotely advanced user, the loss of the 1080p checkerboard mode is a big one.
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is [b]Andrew at Nvidia[/b]. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.
But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........
My interest in this is as follows. I have recently purchased an LG50PX990 3DTV in the UK, and am using it as the main monitor for a gaming PC with a GTX580. The LG screen supports 1080p checkerboard as a 3d input mode, and that mode works fine with the Tridef 3D drivers. Like Roller11, Nobsi and Bobeggy, I think the removal of support for 1080p checkerboard in the 3DTV play software is a big disappointment. I would like the option to use the Nvidia 3D support at 1080p checkerboard rather than having to rely on Tridef, and the functionality has already been there in the Nvidia driver and removed. Some of the posts here have claimed little difference between 720p and 1080p 3D modes. In my view, this is nonsense: I can tell them apart within seconds.
As Roller11 has argued, Nvidia appears to have been prepared to sacrifice image quality in order to deliver 3D software which has widest possible compatibility and requires no user input in selecting 3D mode on the screen. For the remotely advanced user, the loss of the 1080p checkerboard mode is a big one.
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.
But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
no registry hack?
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
[/quote]
If you play games at 720p, that is the actual resolution that the screen is rendered and transmitted to the TV. The TV than has to upscale the picture to fit onto the 1080p display. Playing a game in 1080p (checkerboard mode or not) transmitts the frames in 1080p (the native HDTV resolution) to the TV, so no upscaling is required. This is one of the advantages of the 1080p 3D checkerboard mode.
[quote]The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.[/quote]
I would also like to see a response from Andrew regarding the results of the internal discussion about the return of checkerboard support.
no registry hack?
Part of the problem I think is that the 720p standard has less pixels than 1080p / 2. 1080p / 2 is 1036800 pixels while 720p is 921600 pixels or a 12.5% reduction. I think they are probably downscaling the game to 720p then rendering each eye rather than rendering it at 1080p and downscaling it to 720p. The difference is that the 1080p downscaled is like 720p anti-aliased while rendering at 720p for both eyes is like it isn't. You'd think you could pick which method you use as a quality option.
If you play games at 720p, that is the actual resolution that the screen is rendered and transmitted to the TV. The TV than has to upscale the picture to fit onto the 1080p display. Playing a game in 1080p (checkerboard mode or not) transmitts the frames in 1080p (the native HDTV resolution) to the TV, so no upscaling is required. This is one of the advantages of the 1080p 3D checkerboard mode.
I would also like to see a response from Andrew regarding the results of the internal discussion about the return of checkerboard support.
[/quote]
in addition to
i hope to support generic crt mode on 3dtv play(samsung include page flip(frame packing) mode in their 3d mode)
it is superior to checkerboard mode
it is only possible to use windowed s3d mode
nvidia made good 3d web site 3dlive.com a month ago
but only in generic crt mode we can see that site flawlessly
in addition to
i hope to support generic crt mode on 3dtv play(samsung include page flip(frame packing) mode in their 3d mode)
it is superior to checkerboard mode
it is only possible to use windowed s3d mode
nvidia made good 3d web site 3dlive.com a month ago
but only in generic crt mode we can see that site flawlessly
i7 8700K @4.9
GTX1080Ti
Asrock Z370 Gamming K6
Windows10 64bit
LG OLED UHD 3dtv 55E6K
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is [b]Andrew at Nvidia[/b]. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.[/quote]
On LGs, is checkerboard mode disabled (grayed out) by default like the Samsungs?
It isn't surprising that Andrew hasn't updated us. Even if he sincerely intends to push for checkerboard, he doesn't want to give us any encouragement only to disappoint us if he can't make it happen. I doubt he will make any announcement, good or bad, we'll just have to wait for the next driver release to find out if we get what we want, and new releases seem to happen in terms of months.
I would like to see the whole structure change. Now, game profiles are embedded in driver release. A better way would be for new game profiles to be kept and accessible indepentdent of driver, and then merged by user into any driver version that's installed on the computer. In this scheme, users could stay with checkerboard enabled 258.xx drivers and then D/L the individual game updates as needed.
[quote] Nvidia could keep much of the 3DTVplay driver implementation just as it is, but add an "advanced 3D modes" button on the "set up stereoscoopic 3d screen". It could then add a nag screen as that button is pressed saying modes outside of the HDMI 1.4 specification are not guaranteed to work with all 3DTVs and will not be backed by tech support from Nvidia. It would then be up to the well-informed like Nobsi and others to show idiots like me how to make ourt preferred 3d mode work if we cannot do it ourselves.[/quote]
Fine, just make sure that the nag screen goes away. Nvidia could have made the "no stereo signal detected" nag overlay go away on an automatic timeout, as they did with the "non-supported resolution" overlay which lasts only 2-3 seconds. But they choose not to, so everyone using checkerboard enabled drivers (.i.e. 258.xx drivers) gets checkerboard, but they have to build their own squarewave generator to suppress the nag. The generator is cheap and not terribly difficult, still....
The only slight complication is that the software must account for those 2010 3D ready TVs that don't offer checkerboard, so both checkerboard and 720P framepacked must be selectable. Since 720P results in automatic 3D invocation, it would be reasonable that 720P be the default in 3D Vision setup, and at the same time, provide an option button for those who want checkerboard. Of course I really don't care how they do it, just as long as checkerboard is available when doing 3D Vision set up.
[quote]But in the meantime, its back to Tridef. Shouldn't Nvidia be a bit emabrassed about that........ [/quote]
Apparently, Nvidia is immuned to embarrassment.:)
Speaking of TriDef, I just tried their free download and discovered they are doing a better job than iZ3D on visual quality. In both CoD Black Ops and Medal of honor, TriDef was significantly 'cleaner'. iZ3D had a very good look overall, but TriDef was it's equal, plus had cleaned up some signicant artifacts that were present in iZ3D.
Thanks to ndlrjajdlfo for bringing this to my attention.
Still, it's important for Nvidia to join the checkerboard party cause you can never have too much game support.
The key person who has not posted in this thread for several days is Andrew at Nvidia. At least this thread has brought this issue to his attention. He suggested this was an issue "he would need to discuss internally". I would love to know what time frame those discussions will take, and any sense of when they could lead to a change in what is available to the end user.
On LGs, is checkerboard mode disabled (grayed out) by default like the Samsungs?
It isn't surprising that Andrew hasn't updated us. Even if he sincerely intends to push for checkerboard, he doesn't want to give us any encouragement only to disappoint us if he can't make it happen. I doubt he will make any announcement, good or bad, we'll just have to wait for the next driver release to find out if we get what we want, and new releases seem to happen in terms of months.
I would like to see the whole structure change. Now, game profiles are embedded in driver release. A better way would be for new game profiles to be kept and accessible indepentdent of driver, and then merged by user into any driver version that's installed on the computer. In this scheme, users could stay with checkerboard enabled 258.xx drivers and then D/L the individual game updates as needed.
Fine, just make sure that the nag screen goes away. Nvidia could have made the "no stereo signal detected" nag overlay go away on an automatic timeout, as they did with the "non-supported resolution" overlay which lasts only 2-3 seconds. But they choose not to, so everyone using checkerboard enabled drivers (.i.e. 258.xx drivers) gets checkerboard, but they have to build their own squarewave generator to suppress the nag. The generator is cheap and not terribly difficult, still....
The only slight complication is that the software must account for those 2010 3D ready TVs that don't offer checkerboard, so both checkerboard and 720P framepacked must be selectable. Since 720P results in automatic 3D invocation, it would be reasonable that 720P be the default in 3D Vision setup, and at the same time, provide an option button for those who want checkerboard. Of course I really don't care how they do it, just as long as checkerboard is available when doing 3D Vision set up.
Apparently, Nvidia is immuned to embarrassment.:)
Speaking of TriDef, I just tried their free download and discovered they are doing a better job than iZ3D on visual quality. In both CoD Black Ops and Medal of honor, TriDef was significantly 'cleaner'. iZ3D had a very good look overall, but TriDef was it's equal, plus had cleaned up some signicant artifacts that were present in iZ3D.
Thanks to ndlrjajdlfo for bringing this to my attention.
Still, it's important for Nvidia to join the checkerboard party cause you can never have too much game support.
Its obvious Nvidia has no interest in actually providing the customer what they want. [/quote]
Let's see if they come up with a solution that provides 1080P for some TV's. Hopefully they will.... I think they need to make it clear as day about the 1080P support though. If I bought a TV thinking I was getting 1080P 3D and it only did 720P, I would be very upset... I can understand they want things uniform but having some TV's doing 1080P might push some manufacturers to provide the same...
Also, where are the fancy 27 inch 3D monitors at? That would be good enough for me... This 23.6" Acer is getting long in the tooth... I'm about the shelf this altogether...
Its obvious Nvidia has no interest in actually providing the customer what they want.
Let's see if they come up with a solution that provides 1080P for some TV's. Hopefully they will.... I think they need to make it clear as day about the 1080P support though. If I bought a TV thinking I was getting 1080P 3D and it only did 720P, I would be very upset... I can understand they want things uniform but having some TV's doing 1080P might push some manufacturers to provide the same...
Also, where are the fancy 27 inch 3D monitors at? That would be good enough for me... This 23.6" Acer is getting long in the tooth... I'm about the shelf this altogether...
Intel Core i7 920 @ 4.20Ghz | Win7 x64 Ultimate | 7.7 WEI
EVGA GTX480 SC @ 820 Mhz SLI | Asus VG278H 27" 3D Vision 2
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 F6 | 24GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600
OCZ 240GB RevoDrive X2 | 4.0TB Hitachi/Seagate/Western Digital HDD's
MOTU UltraLite | X-Fi Titanium
Antec Nine Hundred Two | Silverstone DA1000
Apparently, Nvidia is immuned to embarrassment.:)[/quote]
I literally laughed out loud at that!
Sorry nVidia, but it was funny.
Apparently, Nvidia is immuned to embarrassment.:)
I literally laughed out loud at that!
Sorry nVidia, but it was funny.
So I was TV shopping last Saturday(my new tv arrives this Saturday) and I went in the store convinced I was going to buy the Aquos 60" LCD 240HZ.
THe sales guy pointed me instead to the Samsung PN58C7000 for $2000 and he gave me a stand and the tv came with the blueray player and glasess. I didn't even want a 3DTV because last I had checked they wont allow me to play 3d games on my PC. But I got it anyway because even $2000 for a 58" tv is ok I guess.
So I get home and start poking around the internet and yada yada here is THIS thread.
conclusions...
a) I'm glad I bought a 3D tv
b) I'm glad I bought a Samsung
Now I'm not smart like these guys on this thread. But I can google and learn and I don't give up. And people like on this thread seem to be helpful anyway. So here is my rant to NVIDIA if indeed they are the main problem right now...
This 720p business is silly and so is 24HZ 1080. 720p looks barely playable on my 25 inch monitor with AA enabled! I own 3 GTX 280's in SLI(willing to upgrade yo) and I'm going to use 25% of it to play at 720P on my 3DTV(if SLI is compatible with 3Dplay at all?). What a waste.
Here is my suggestions to Nvidia if it matters. I just dropped $2000 of a TV. I've spent good money on your cards... so do the update these guys are talking about and charge us for your time. You think the money I spent on my $2000 TV and my $3000 "gaming" PC is going to stop me from forking over whatever, $100, $200, $300 ??? In order to get high res 3D? You think I'm broke or something?
You underestimate how much money your customers are prepared to drop to play video games. You underestimate how much sacrifice we make to play games or how much we search forums for tweaks and how to's and info. You underestimate how many relationships we are prepared to lose and have lost because of computers and gaming. Don't be so silly. Your a business. Do the update, charge us and everyone goes home happy.
Because I can only think that it is money that is keeping you from doing this by the sounds of this thread. There is no technical reason is there? By the way $40 for 3DTV play is a silly price. You could have made it do 1080p on compatible tv's and charged even $99 and all those people who dont have the right TV to do 1080P would STILL have bought it.
I don't want to tell you how to run your business but clearly you have no idea who's got the money, where the heck it is, and/or how to get it.
Your company is like a bear hunter who pitches bait all around the forest, instead of just placing it next to the trap.
So I was TV shopping last Saturday(my new tv arrives this Saturday) and I went in the store convinced I was going to buy the Aquos 60" LCD 240HZ.
THe sales guy pointed me instead to the Samsung PN58C7000 for $2000 and he gave me a stand and the tv came with the blueray player and glasess. I didn't even want a 3DTV because last I had checked they wont allow me to play 3d games on my PC. But I got it anyway because even $2000 for a 58" tv is ok I guess.
So I get home and start poking around the internet and yada yada here is THIS thread.
conclusions...
a) I'm glad I bought a 3D tv
b) I'm glad I bought a Samsung
Now I'm not smart like these guys on this thread. But I can google and learn and I don't give up. And people like on this thread seem to be helpful anyway. So here is my rant to NVIDIA if indeed they are the main problem right now...
This 720p business is silly and so is 24HZ 1080. 720p looks barely playable on my 25 inch monitor with AA enabled! I own 3 GTX 280's in SLI(willing to upgrade yo) and I'm going to use 25% of it to play at 720P on my 3DTV(if SLI is compatible with 3Dplay at all?). What a waste.
Here is my suggestions to Nvidia if it matters. I just dropped $2000 of a TV. I've spent good money on your cards... so do the update these guys are talking about and charge us for your time. You think the money I spent on my $2000 TV and my $3000 "gaming" PC is going to stop me from forking over whatever, $100, $200, $300 ??? In order to get high res 3D? You think I'm broke or something?
You underestimate how much money your customers are prepared to drop to play video games. You underestimate how much sacrifice we make to play games or how much we search forums for tweaks and how to's and info. You underestimate how many relationships we are prepared to lose and have lost because of computers and gaming. Don't be so silly. Your a business. Do the update, charge us and everyone goes home happy.
Because I can only think that it is money that is keeping you from doing this by the sounds of this thread. There is no technical reason is there? By the way $40 for 3DTV play is a silly price. You could have made it do 1080p on compatible tv's and charged even $99 and all those people who dont have the right TV to do 1080P would STILL have bought it.
I don't want to tell you how to run your business but clearly you have no idea who's got the money, where the heck it is, and/or how to get it.
Your company is like a bear hunter who pitches bait all around the forest, instead of just placing it next to the trap.
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
Normally I would agreed with your "it's all about the money" comment. In this case, it's all about execising bad judgement. See post #52. Andrew, nvidia's 3D product manager, says:
" We currently are not looking to add formats that require end user interaction to switch the TV into that mode. Do you really want that? Is it more important for you to get that resolution or to have automatic 3D enable/disalbe from the source device?"
I was shocked that Andrew would assume that gamers would be perfectly happy with bad image quality if it meant that they don't have to be bothered with pushing a button on the remote.
This discussion is about 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play, but consider this: 3DTV Play is competing directly against iZ3D and Tridef-3D. They both offer hi quality checkerboard mode whereas 3DTV Play offers only ugly low quality 720P. Who in the world would buy bad quality when they could buy hi quality for the same price?
Also, consider this: The products 3D Vision and 3DTV Play both went through internal several design reviews during it's developement process. You would think that some design engineer or marketing person at these meetings would have raised their hand and said "uhh, Andrew, there's a gigantic problem...if you implement auto switching you'll be subjecting users to hideous scaled 720P on 1080P displays. No gamer will accept that, we'll have a mutiny on our hands." So there were dozens of people who knew about this collosal blunder, and nobody said a word.
Normally I would agreed with your "it's all about the money" comment. In this case, it's all about execising bad judgement. See post #52. Andrew, nvidia's 3D product manager, says:
" We currently are not looking to add formats that require end user interaction to switch the TV into that mode. Do you really want that? Is it more important for you to get that resolution or to have automatic 3D enable/disalbe from the source device?"
I was shocked that Andrew would assume that gamers would be perfectly happy with bad image quality if it meant that they don't have to be bothered with pushing a button on the remote.
This discussion is about 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play, but consider this: 3DTV Play is competing directly against iZ3D and Tridef-3D. They both offer hi quality checkerboard mode whereas 3DTV Play offers only ugly low quality 720P. Who in the world would buy bad quality when they could buy hi quality for the same price?
Also, consider this: The products 3D Vision and 3DTV Play both went through internal several design reviews during it's developement process. You would think that some design engineer or marketing person at these meetings would have raised their hand and said "uhh, Andrew, there's a gigantic problem...if you implement auto switching you'll be subjecting users to hideous scaled 720P on 1080P displays. No gamer will accept that, we'll have a mutiny on our hands." So there were dozens of people who knew about this collosal blunder, and nobody said a word.
As a PC gamer with limited knowledge... I'm just going to choose whichever system works the best. The money is not as important as quality generally speaking. At the same time I'm not dumping $4000 on a 3DTV so I'm somewhat hypocritical.
But I want to thank you for suggesting several alternatives to NVIDIA's solution.
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy. But it's even more ironic that in the face of that, I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition.
Samsung +1
Nvidia -1
Nvidia Forum Members +1
As a PC gamer with limited knowledge... I'm just going to choose whichever system works the best. The money is not as important as quality generally speaking. At the same time I'm not dumping $4000 on a 3DTV so I'm somewhat hypocritical.
But I want to thank you for suggesting several alternatives to NVIDIA's solution.
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy. But it's even more ironic that in the face of that, I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition.
Samsung +1
Nvidia -1
Nvidia Forum Members +1
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy.[/quote]
Yes ineed, check this out:
I had a checkerboard Samsung 55C7000 last spring. I got it to play 3D games, but when I went to the nvidia 3D Vision site it wasn't listed. I called cus support, they said "can't do 3D Vision". Disappointed, I sent it back to Amazon and used a 50" plasma to play games for 6 months in 2D. Talk about irony, that 55c7000 played games in 3D Vision perfectly, Nvidia cheated me out of 6 months of 3D gaming due to their error of omission. Worse, the omission was intentional. Nvidia knew all along that the 55c7000 is superb 3D display, they just said "won't work" because the user must push a botton on their remote to invoke 3D mode. Since 3D wasn't totally automatic, it didn't do 3D AT ALL according to nvidia. How is nvidia going to compensate me for my irreplaceable loss?
[quote] I actively searched on the net/forums and found out that NVIDIA's 3DPLAY sucks for 3D compared to it's competition. [/quote]
I wish I had understood that last November when I bought a Sony 3D Ready. I did so because according to nvidia, all of the 2010 HDTVs didn't do 3D Vision, and so 3D Play was my only choice. Since 3DTV Play is purely 720P, I was doomed to 720P on both Sony and Samsung so I went with Sony. Then Nobsi posted that checkerboard is possible under 3D Vision w/Samsung, so I ditched the Sony in favor of my current Samsung plasma and gaming has never been so much fun.
So denying customers checkerboard is the second worst thing nvidia did. Deceiving customers into thinking 2010 Samsungs won't do 3D Vision has done even more damage.
I find it ironic that without even trying, and by complete accident... I bought a Samsung 58" TV which from what I've read here is a good buy.
Yes ineed, check this out:
I had a checkerboard Samsung 55C7000 last spring. I got it to play 3D games, but when I went to the nvidia 3D Vision site it wasn't listed. I called cus support, they said "can't do 3D Vision". Disappointed, I sent it back to Amazon and used a 50" plasma to play games for 6 months in 2D. Talk about irony, that 55c7000 played games in 3D Vision perfectly, Nvidia cheated me out of 6 months of 3D gaming due to their error of omission. Worse, the omission was intentional. Nvidia knew all along that the 55c7000 is superb 3D display, they just said "won't work" because the user must push a botton on their remote to invoke 3D mode. Since 3D wasn't totally automatic, it didn't do 3D AT ALL according to nvidia. How is nvidia going to compensate me for my irreplaceable loss?
I wish I had understood that last November when I bought a Sony 3D Ready. I did so because according to nvidia, all of the 2010 HDTVs didn't do 3D Vision, and so 3D Play was my only choice. Since 3DTV Play is purely 720P, I was doomed to 720P on both Sony and Samsung so I went with Sony. Then Nobsi posted that checkerboard is possible under 3D Vision w/Samsung, so I ditched the Sony in favor of my current Samsung plasma and gaming has never been so much fun.
So denying customers checkerboard is the second worst thing nvidia did. Deceiving customers into thinking 2010 Samsungs won't do 3D Vision has done even more damage.
To Nvidia.... just want to say thank you...
Thank you for making me recently buy your 3D Vision kit and thank you also for making me begin to learn how to solder(no cold joints yo) and for making me begin to learn how to make a 555 timer so that I can get 1080P 60hz checkerboard on my new 1.4 Samsung 58` 3DTV without some crazy error message flashing on my brain.
All this learning is so much fun if not obviously a huge huge drain on my time... that could be better used gaming.
But of course pushing a button on my TV remote would have been easier but it`s your game and your rules I guess... Good luck with your automatic discovery andor ease of use technology. I prefer instead to work hard and get good rewards for it... Robert Frost said it best in his famous poem the road not taken. I`d tell you to look it up on google but I`ll instead give you the link, because I believe that simple things should be left truly simple...
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-road-not-taken/
To Nvidia.... just want to say thank you...
Thank you for making me recently buy your 3D Vision kit and thank you also for making me begin to learn how to solder(no cold joints yo) and for making me begin to learn how to make a 555 timer so that I can get 1080P 60hz checkerboard on my new 1.4 Samsung 58` 3DTV without some crazy error message flashing on my brain.
All this learning is so much fun if not obviously a huge huge drain on my time... that could be better used gaming.
But of course pushing a button on my TV remote would have been easier but it`s your game and your rules I guess... Good luck with your automatic discovery andor ease of use technology. I prefer instead to work hard and get good rewards for it... Robert Frost said it best in his famous poem the road not taken. I`d tell you to look it up on google but I`ll instead give you the link, because I believe that simple things should be left truly simple...
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-road-not-taken/
OS --------- Win 7 64Bit Home Premium
CPU -------- i7 920 OC as needed
COOLER --- NOC NH-U12P SE
MOBO ----- ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme
RAM -------- 6GB Corsair Triple Channel 1333
POWER ---- Corsair 1000hx
GPU -------- Windforce 4GB GTX 770 SLI
CASE ------- NZXT Tempest
HD ---------- Samsung 840 Pro 256GB(OS), 840 Pro 250GB Game Drive, 250GB Velociraptor Game Drive, WD Green 1TB, WD Green 2TB
MONITOR -- ROG SWIFT(2560x1440 to 144hz) and 3DTV PN58C7000(1080 Checkerboard)
3D ---------- 3D Vision V1, Tridef, IZ3D
After reading this entire thread, I am still confused.
Recently I bought a Mitsubishi DLP TV (model 73-738) that came with a couple of 3D glasses (still in the box) via a rebate. I've build a HTPC with a NVidia GT430 video card. My main rig has a NVidia GTX570, which I hope to connect to the Mitsubishi once in a while to play 3D games.
Which software do I need? 3D Vision or 3DTV Play? If I understand this thread correctly, 3DTV Play will play 3D BluRay at 1080p24 checkerboard, but not 1080p60 for gaming (only 720p60). I will be able to use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses I have now, or DLP link glasses.
On the other hand, with the latest version of 3D Vision I can play game and 3D BluRay at 720p60 only, not 1080p60 because the Mitsubishi DLP is HDMI 1.4 standard. And I couldn't use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses, nor DLP link glasses. Only NVidia 3D glasses works with 3D Vision.
Do I get everything right?
As for the manual switching on the TV to view 3D content, I believe my TV requires me to do that anyway through its menu, regardless the source. It's not a big deal, really. Count me in for requesting 3DTV Play to output 1080p60 checkerboard.
Thanks!
After reading this entire thread, I am still confused.
Recently I bought a Mitsubishi DLP TV (model 73-738) that came with a couple of 3D glasses (still in the box) via a rebate. I've build a HTPC with a NVidia GT430 video card. My main rig has a NVidia GTX570, which I hope to connect to the Mitsubishi once in a while to play 3D games.
Which software do I need? 3D Vision or 3DTV Play? If I understand this thread correctly, 3DTV Play will play 3D BluRay at 1080p24 checkerboard, but not 1080p60 for gaming (only 720p60). I will be able to use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses I have now, or DLP link glasses.
On the other hand, with the latest version of 3D Vision I can play game and 3D BluRay at 720p60 only, not 1080p60 because the Mitsubishi DLP is HDMI 1.4 standard. And I couldn't use the Mitsubishi 3D glasses, nor DLP link glasses. Only NVidia 3D glasses works with 3D Vision.
Do I get everything right?
As for the manual switching on the TV to view 3D content, I believe my TV requires me to do that anyway through its menu, regardless the source. It's not a big deal, really. Count me in for requesting 3DTV Play to output 1080p60 checkerboard.
Thanks!