Asus VG248QE, VG278HE & HR, BenQ XL270T checkerboard-pattern in 3D-mode (no FullHD per Frame)
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Hello there, I have an Asus VG278HE, which is connected to a GeForce GTX 770 via DVI-Dual-Link-Cable. Furthermore, I am using Nvidia 3D Vision 2 in order to perceive 3D content. I am totally able to watch any 3D content like pictures, movies and games (3D works!). However, while displaying 3D content I can clearly sense a checkerboard-pattern. This pattern is for example, visible in following image (look at the door in the background). [URL=http://imageshack.us/a/img11/1447/rbu0.jpg][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img11/1447/rbu0.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [b][u]EDIT: For further testing I ordered also an Asus VG278HR and a BenQ XL270T, which both show the same behaviour.[/u][/b] In order to identify the cause of the checkerboard-pattern I did further investigation and created a [b]completely red image[/b], which I then displayed in 2D and 3D. [b]See image below.[/b] When the red image is displayed in 2D (see right image), every pixel on the screen is activated and switched to red, resulting in a[b] smooth red screen[/b]. However, in 3D mode [b]only every second pixel[/b] is activated (see left image, shot through the left eye's glass), resulting in an inhomogenous image. [URL=http://imageshack.us/a/img22/8246/5z76.jpg][IMG]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8246/5z76.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Things I tried so far (without success): [list] [.]Get another Asus VG278HE. Same Problem[/.] [.]Exchange DVI-Cable. Same Problem[/.] [.]Install the 326.19 BETA driver. No Effect[/.] [.]Revert to 320.49 stable driver. No Effect[/.] [.]Reduce Resolution to 1280 x 720 pixels. Same Problem.[/.] [.]Change FPS to 110 Hz or 100Hz and back to 120Hz. Same Problem[/.] [.][b]Use my laptop (Quadro FX-880) via Displayport. No Effect.[/b][/.] [/list] I am at my wit's end and really hope that someone of you has any idea :). Thank you for your help! [b][u]Edit 08/07/2013: List of monitors with known checkerboard-issue[/u][/b] This discussion revealed, that I am by far not the only person experiencing the problems described above. In fact, fellow members of this forum could identify further monitors, which also seem to suffer from the problem. In order to provide an overview, I list all monitors we have found so far suffering from the checkerboard-issue: [list] [.]Acer HN274HBbmiiid (Source: [url]http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1945[/url])[/.] [.]Acer GD235HZ (Source: [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/566852/3d-vision/asus-vg248qe-vg278he-amp-hr-benq-xl270t-checkerboard-pattern-in-3d-mode-no-fullhd-per-frame-/post/3877428/#3877428]D-Man11's post[/url])[/.] [.]Asus VG248QE (Sources: [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/566852/3d-vision/asus-vg248qe-vg278he-amp-hr-benq-xl270t-checkerboard-pattern-in-3d-mode-no-fullhd-per-frame-/post/3873074/#3873074]CeeJayII[/url], [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/566852/3d-vision/asus-vg248qe-vg278he-amp-hr-benq-xl270t-checkerboard-pattern-in-3d-mode-no-fullhd-per-frame-/post/3882918/#3882918]SanityIsOverrated post[/url]) [/.] [.]Asus VG278HE (Source: Myself. I own(ed) 2 malfunctioning monitors)[/.] [.]Asus VG278HR (Source: Myself)[/.] [.]Benq XL2420T (Source: [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/566852/3d-vision/asus-vg248qe-vg278he-amp-hr-benq-xl270t-checkerboard-pattern-in-3d-mode-no-fullhd-per-frame-/post/3873528/#3873528]rustyk's post[/url])[/.] [.]BenQ XL270T (Source: Myself)[/.] [.]Samsung S23A700D (only with NVidia Vision, Source [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/566852/3d-vision/asus-vg248qe-vg278he-amp-hr-benq-xl270t-checkerboard-pattern-in-3d-mode-no-fullhd-per-frame-/post/3877589/#3877589]D-Man11's post[/url])[/.] [/list] Thank you all for the input :).
Hello there,

I have an Asus VG278HE, which is connected to a GeForce GTX 770 via DVI-Dual-Link-Cable. Furthermore, I am using Nvidia 3D Vision 2 in order to perceive 3D content.

I am totally able to watch any 3D content like pictures, movies and games (3D works!).

However, while displaying 3D content I can clearly sense a checkerboard-pattern. This pattern is for example, visible in following image (look at the door in the background).
Image

EDIT: For further testing I ordered also an Asus VG278HR and a BenQ XL270T, which both show the same behaviour.

In order to identify the cause of the checkerboard-pattern I did further investigation and created a completely red image, which I then displayed in 2D and 3D. See image below.

When the red image is displayed in 2D (see right image), every pixel on the screen is activated and switched to red, resulting in a smooth red screen. However, in 3D mode only every second pixel is activated (see left image, shot through the left eye's glass), resulting in an inhomogenous image.

Image

Things I tried so far (without success):

  • Get another Asus VG278HE. Same Problem
  • Exchange DVI-Cable. Same Problem
  • Install the 326.19 BETA driver. No Effect
  • Revert to 320.49 stable driver. No Effect
  • Reduce Resolution to 1280 x 720 pixels. Same Problem.
  • Change FPS to 110 Hz or 100Hz and back to 120Hz. Same Problem
  • Use my laptop (Quadro FX-880) via Displayport. No Effect.


I am at my wit's end and really hope that someone of you has any idea :).

Thank you for your help!



Edit 08/07/2013: List of monitors with known checkerboard-issue
This discussion revealed, that I am by far not the only person experiencing the problems described above. In fact, fellow members of this forum could identify further monitors, which also seem to suffer from the problem. In order to provide an overview, I list all monitors we have found so far suffering from the checkerboard-issue:


Thank you all for the input :).

Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus

#1
Posted 07/25/2013 05:40 PM   
Dang, I had a hard time finding where this was discussed previously. The search feature on this forum SUCKS! https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/3/ Use control+f to search the page for checkerboard. It was quite a heated argument about this effect you are experiencing.
Dang, I had a hard time finding where this was discussed previously. The search feature on this forum SUCKS!


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/3/


Use control+f to search the page for checkerboard. It was quite a heated argument about this effect you are experiencing.

#2
Posted 07/25/2013 06:41 PM   
Happens to me too, it's meant to be that way. Is it noticeable? It looks pretty bad on yours, though it may be because you zoomed the camera in on that first pic, its hard to get a sense of scale. I can't see it on mine unless I get really close or its displaying something pure white.
Happens to me too, it's meant to be that way.

Is it noticeable? It looks pretty bad on yours, though it may be because you zoomed the camera in on that first pic, its hard to get a sense of scale. I can't see it on mine unless I get really close or its displaying something pure white.

#3
Posted 07/25/2013 07:01 PM   
Was looking for that old discussion as well especially since I did test my VG278H to check for similar problems in that discussion. I am not sure if it affects all HE monitors or only some but it is a really bad fault with the monitor if it is present.
Was looking for that old discussion as well especially since I did test my VG278H to check for similar problems in that discussion.

I am not sure if it affects all HE monitors or only some but it is a really bad fault with the monitor if it is present.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#4
Posted 07/25/2013 07:28 PM   
The only way I found that thread was thinking real hard about the posters name until it came to me. (quadrophoenix) @FlyingRocket I can't say what is up with your top picture, it does indeed looked whacked. Was it taken with the display set to 720P? But the picture of the red pixels is normal. The spacing in between is the blue and green sub pixels in an off state. Each pixel is comprised of 3 sub pixels. The crystals in an LCD Display only act to allow or disallow the backlight to pass through to the color filter on each corresponding sub pixel. So in the case of your red pixel picture the light is being passed through the red filter/sub pixel, but blocked on the adjacent blue and green filters/sub pixels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh9SqvBVRwk
The only way I found that thread was thinking real hard about the posters name until it came to me.
(quadrophoenix)

@FlyingRocket

I can't say what is up with your top picture, it does indeed looked whacked. Was it taken with the display set to 720P?

But the picture of the red pixels is normal. The spacing in between is the blue and green sub pixels in an off state.

Each pixel is comprised of 3 sub pixels. The crystals in an LCD Display only act to allow or disallow the backlight to pass through to the color filter on each corresponding sub pixel. So in the case of your red pixel picture the light is being passed through the red filter/sub pixel, but blocked on the adjacent blue and green filters/sub pixels.

#5
Posted 07/25/2013 07:45 PM   
Here's a few links to some test patterns that can be used to help calibrate your display settings http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest_scale.html In the gradient test on the first link, I'm curious if you have any dithering/banding problems or if you see a slight pinkish/redish tint. If so your color profile is being reported wrong by the display or ignored by the driver.
Here's a few links to some test patterns that can be used to help calibrate your display settings


http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php


http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest_scale.html




In the gradient test on the first link, I'm curious if you have any dithering/banding problems or if you see a slight pinkish/redish tint. If so your color profile is being reported wrong by the display or ignored by the driver.

#6
Posted 07/25/2013 08:15 PM   
First of All: [b]THANK YOU![/b] I have wandered around the internet and contacted the Nvidia, Asus and MSI Support without any positive outcome. And then [b]D-Man11[/b] (thank you very much), links a thread, which exactly covers the topic! Great! [i](I thought I was the only experiencing this problem)[/i] [quote="Flugan"]Was looking for that old discussion as well especially since I did test my VG278H to check for similar problems in that discussion. I am not sure if it affects all HE monitors or only some but it is a really bad fault with the monitor if it is present.[/quote] I am happy, Flugan, that you joined the discussion, since you were quite activ on the last one as well. As far as I know, some have correct working monitors and some do not. In my case, I do have two monitors both same model, which do not work. [quote="D-Man11"] I can't say what is up with your top picture, it does indeed looked whacked. Was it taken with the display set to 720P?[/quote] The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern). The original image can be found in the "QuakeCon 2009 Gallery" on [url]http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-photos.html[/url] (it is image number 24). [quote="D-Man11"] But the picture of the red pixels is normal. The spacing in between is the blue and green sub pixels in an off state. [/quote] Yes, you are right. The [b]image on the right (2D case)[/b], is the one, where a completely red image in 2D is shown. In fact, everything is okay with it. The output is a smooth looking red screen. The distance between the red sub-pixels, is indeed caused by the green and blue-subpixel. However, the [b]image on the left (3D case)[/b] is clearly showing that only every other red-subpixel is activated. Resulting in an inhomogenous red screen. For me, this is an evidence of checkerboard-interlacing. If one of you is interested in reproducing this, feel free to use my test image (one must alter JPG to JPS in order to view it in 3D mode). [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/h6ym.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img838/6981/h6ym.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [quote="Cookybiscuit"]Happens to me too, it's meant to be that way.[/quote] Interestingly, I already have found both, fellows in misery and lucky people with fully working monitors. Even [b]quadrophoenix[/b], the starter of said thread, reported to have received a completely working Asus VG278HE (see [URL=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/post/3719320/#3719320]here[/URL]) [quote="Cookybiscuit"] Is it noticeable? It looks pretty bad on yours, though it may be because you zoomed the camera in on that first pic, its hard to get a sense of scale. I can't see it on mine unless I get really close or its displaying something pure white.[/quote] Yes, for me it is clearly visible in my normal viewing distance and up to 1 meter (or 3 foot). For a better size comparison I took another image, showing the complete monitor. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/qdb6.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img20/40/qdb6.jpg[/IMG][/URL] When looking from further distance, the pattern vanishes. This is, of course, no proper solution. I want [b]FullHD for each eye[/b] :). If this would not be a requirement, I could have just taken a passive polarized monitor :) (yes, I share quadrophoenix opinion). So ... I am currently unsure, how to handle the situation. [list] [.]Should I re-order another Asus VG278HE (actually it would be the third in a row, because I already have a replacement for the first one)?[/.] [.]Can I update any kind of driver or firmware?[/.] [.]Are there other and better monitors, which can deliver FullHD to each eye?[/.] [.]What would you suggest :)?[/.] [/list] Thank you very much again. I am happy that I have found this forum. PS: Please, excuse my English I am no native speaker.
First of All: THANK YOU! I have wandered around the internet and contacted the Nvidia, Asus and MSI Support without any positive outcome. And then D-Man11 (thank you very much), links a thread, which exactly covers the topic! Great!

(I thought I was the only experiencing this problem)

Flugan said:Was looking for that old discussion as well especially since I did test my VG278H to check for similar problems in that discussion.

I am not sure if it affects all HE monitors or only some but it is a really bad fault with the monitor if it is present.

I am happy, Flugan, that you joined the discussion, since you were quite activ on the last one as well. As far as I know, some have correct working monitors and some do not. In my case, I do have two monitors both same model, which do not work.

D-Man11 said:
I can't say what is up with your top picture, it does indeed looked whacked. Was it taken with the display set to 720P?

The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern). The original image can be found in the "QuakeCon 2009 Gallery" on http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-photos.html (it is image number 24).

D-Man11 said:
But the picture of the red pixels is normal. The spacing in between is the blue and green sub pixels in an off state.

Yes, you are right. The image on the right (2D case), is the one, where a completely red image in 2D is shown. In fact, everything is okay with it. The output is a smooth looking red screen. The distance between the red sub-pixels, is indeed caused by the green and blue-subpixel.

However, the image on the left (3D case) is clearly showing that only every other red-subpixel is activated. Resulting in an inhomogenous red screen. For me, this is an evidence of checkerboard-interlacing.

If one of you is interested in reproducing this, feel free to use my test image (one must alter JPG to JPS in order to view it in 3D mode).

Image

Cookybiscuit said:Happens to me too, it's meant to be that way.

Interestingly, I already have found both, fellows in misery and lucky people with fully working monitors. Even quadrophoenix, the starter of said thread, reported to have received a completely working Asus VG278HE (see here)

Cookybiscuit said:
Is it noticeable? It looks pretty bad on yours, though it may be because you zoomed the camera in on that first pic, its hard to get a sense of scale. I can't see it on mine unless I get really close or its displaying something pure white.

Yes, for me it is clearly visible in my normal viewing distance and up to 1 meter (or 3 foot). For a better size comparison I took another image, showing the complete monitor.

Image

When looking from further distance, the pattern vanishes. This is, of course, no proper solution. I want FullHD for each eye :). If this would not be a requirement, I could have just taken a passive polarized monitor :) (yes, I share quadrophoenix opinion).

So ... I am currently unsure, how to handle the situation.

  • Should I re-order another Asus VG278HE (actually it would be the third in a row, because I already have a replacement for the first one)?
  • Can I update any kind of driver or firmware?
  • Are there other and better monitors, which can deliver FullHD to each eye?
  • What would you suggest :)?


Thank you very much again. I am happy that I have found this forum.

PS: Please, excuse my English I am no native speaker.

Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus

#7
Posted 07/25/2013 08:31 PM   
Have you tried it in a game? Either way, if its noticeable from a meter, return it ASAP.
Have you tried it in a game? Either way, if its noticeable from a meter, return it ASAP.

#8
Posted 07/25/2013 08:39 PM   
[quote="Cookybiscuit"]Have you tried it in a game? Either way, if its noticeable from a meter, return it ASAP. [/quote] Yes, it is visible while viewing any kind of 3D content (Games, Blu-Rays, Images ...)
Cookybiscuit said:Have you tried it in a game? Either way, if its noticeable from a meter, return it ASAP.

Yes, it is visible while viewing any kind of 3D content (Games, Blu-Rays, Images ...)

Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus

#9
Posted 07/25/2013 08:48 PM   
Considering the issue has resurfaced I thought I might as well double check my own results. http://sdrv.ms/1bnfjLs According to quadronyx posts or what his name was the signal degradation was caused by them using a certain chip inside the monitor which might be good enough for TV usage but not full hd 120hz pc usage. If given the choice I would replace the monitor as you otherwise will be stuck with the problem "forever".
Considering the issue has resurfaced I thought I might as well double check my own results.


http://sdrv.ms/1bnfjLs


According to quadronyx posts or what his name was the signal degradation was caused by them using a certain chip inside the monitor which might be good enough for TV usage but not full hd 120hz pc usage.

If given the choice I would replace the monitor as you otherwise will be stuck with the problem "forever".

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#10
Posted 07/25/2013 10:00 PM   
Wait a minute, this pattern isn't normal??? I can see it on my ASUS VG248QE when sitting too close to the monitor. I thought that all Matte 120hz monitors produced this effect. I can't return mine now unfortunately. The problem only exists when 1 meter or less away in 3D mode, in 2D everything is fine. I too bought this monitor for full 1080p 3D gaming and the result I get isn't much better (if at all) than Checkerboard in my 3DTV.
Wait a minute, this pattern isn't normal??? I can see it on my ASUS VG248QE when sitting too close to the monitor. I thought that all Matte 120hz monitors produced this effect. I can't return mine now unfortunately. The problem only exists when 1 meter or less away in 3D mode, in 2D everything is fine. I too bought this monitor for full 1080p 3D gaming and the result I get isn't much better (if at all) than Checkerboard in my 3DTV.

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

#11
Posted 07/25/2013 11:07 PM   
Using Cyberlink, Arcsoft or Corel for blu-ray play back, you can select DLP as your Display choice for playback but the glasses will not activate. You should have a look at it and you'll see exactly what checkerboard looks like. Try 720P as well as 1080P
Using Cyberlink, Arcsoft or Corel for blu-ray play back, you can select DLP as your Display choice for playback but the glasses will not activate.

You should have a look at it and you'll see exactly what checkerboard looks like. Try 720P as well as 1080P

#12
Posted 07/26/2013 01:19 AM   
How does checkerboard work in practice on supported 3DTVs? The starting Point is 60hz checkerboard output from the PC. Is this interpolated into 1080p 120hz and shown with shutter glasses? The alternative, transmitting checkerboard using passive glasses does not appear feasable. I probably exlude some DLP Products from the coverage above.
How does checkerboard work in practice on supported 3DTVs?

The starting Point is 60hz checkerboard output from the PC.

Is this interpolated into 1080p 120hz and shown with shutter glasses?

The alternative, transmitting checkerboard using passive glasses does not appear feasable.

I probably exlude some DLP Products from the coverage above.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#13
Posted 07/26/2013 01:50 AM   
Checkerboard on a passive display is converted to line interleaved, otherwise it would not work due to the way Film Pattern Retarders work. Every other even line goes to one eye and every other odd line goes to the other eye. There is no way to seperate every other pixel on the same line to one eye or the other when using FPR Technology. We know that all current TVs only accept a 60Hz input. Checkerboard is an interlaced format and as such uses a 1080i resolution. Now as far as whether you get 30 or 60 per eye and whether or not interpolation is involved, I've no idea. I've never found any official documentation to comfirm one way or the other. What little information you can find is contradictory. But since it's active shutter technology, you'd almost have to assume that it's 120 via interpolation or interlaced frames that are piggybacked, if not the flickering of the lenses would be annoying. Checkerboard is 1920x540, so you could fit 2 seperate frames in the bandwidth of one 1920x1080 frame. Is this how it works? 120 half frames piggybacked in the bandwidth of 60 full frames? No idea, no definitive proof anywhere.
Checkerboard on a passive display is converted to line interleaved, otherwise it would not work due to the way Film Pattern Retarders work. Every other even line goes to one eye and every other odd line goes to the other eye. There is no way to seperate every other pixel on the same line to one eye or the other when using FPR Technology.

We know that all current TVs only accept a 60Hz input. Checkerboard is an interlaced format and as such uses a 1080i resolution. Now as far as whether you get 30 or 60 per eye and whether or not interpolation is involved, I've no idea. I've never found any official documentation to comfirm one way or the other. What little information you can find is contradictory. But since it's active shutter technology, you'd almost have to assume that it's 120 via interpolation or interlaced frames that are piggybacked, if not the flickering of the lenses would be annoying.

Checkerboard is 1920x540, so you could fit 2 seperate frames in the bandwidth of one 1920x1080 frame. Is this how it works? 120 half frames piggybacked in the bandwidth of 60 full frames? No idea, no definitive proof anywhere.

#14
Posted 07/26/2013 02:15 AM   
So is this something every 120hz 3D monitor has or not? If it isn't, I feel ripped off. It is most apparent when viewing a bright 3D item on the screen at close distant for me. Compare looking at an object in 3D vs 2D and you'll notice longer vertical pxel than there should be in 3D. It doesn't matter what setting I tweak, this lower resolution pattern is still therein 3D.
So is this something every 120hz 3D monitor has or not? If it isn't, I feel ripped off. It is most apparent when viewing a bright 3D item on the screen at close distant for me. Compare looking at an object in 3D vs 2D and you'll notice longer vertical pxel than there should be in 3D. It doesn't matter what setting I tweak, this lower resolution pattern is still therein 3D.

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

#15
Posted 07/26/2013 05:32 AM   
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