3d vision Projector gaming
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Hey there, I currently have an old dlp rear projection tv that I like to game with, It does checkerboard at 1080p. So what I'd like is a projector that does the same thing, but according to nvidias compatibility website the best resolution I can get is 720p? Um... What? I understand the limitations of hdmi 1.4 but is there honestly no way to do pageflipping or whatever it's called at 1080p? Does 3d vision limit output to 720p no matter what as long as you're doing full pageflipping hd? Is pageflipping the right term? Alright, so what I want is a projector to be at 144hz while alternating left and right images, 72hz per eye, each one at 1080p. Is this a possibility? I apologize for the incoherent post but man alive 3d technologies are confusing!! Like why is there so little information on this astounding tech? Anyways, I'm not sure if I've asked this question very well, but what I'm curious about is a 200" screen, gaming in 3d, preferably dlp for the lack of crosstalk, and 1080p per eye. I've been searching but god damn I've only gotten more confused. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much for reading this mess.
Hey there, I currently have an old dlp rear projection tv that I like to game with, It does checkerboard at 1080p. So what I'd like is a projector that does the same thing, but according to nvidias compatibility website the best resolution I can get is 720p? Um... What?

I understand the limitations of hdmi 1.4 but is there honestly no way to do pageflipping or whatever it's called at 1080p? Does 3d vision limit output to 720p no matter what as long as you're doing full pageflipping hd? Is pageflipping the right term?

Alright, so what I want is a projector to be at 144hz while alternating left and right images, 72hz per eye, each one at 1080p. Is this a possibility? I apologize for the incoherent post but man alive 3d technologies are confusing!! Like why is there so little information on this astounding tech? Anyways, I'm not sure if I've asked this question very well, but what I'm curious about is a 200" screen, gaming in 3d, preferably dlp for the lack of crosstalk, and 1080p per eye. I've been searching but god damn I've only gotten more confused.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much for reading this mess.

#1
Posted 12/12/2014 04:52 PM   
From what I understand, this is not possible right now and one key reason is NVidia's drivers don't support it. The other is that, as far as I know, there really isn't a consumer level projector capable of 1080p 3D above 48 Hz (24 frames per eye). (There is one projector that has displayport, but apparently there is some other technical limitation in the circuitry that prevents a full 120Hz in 1080p) New 3DTV's exist that can technically handle it, but again, then you fall into the NVidia 3DTV Play driver issue that doesn't support it. There is another thread around here somewhere where somebody said they asked NVidia about it now that HDMI 2.0 is the standard and can handle 1080p 3D at 120Hz. The answer was something along the lines of "NVidia won't comment on potential future products." There are a lot of ways to take that response, but I really hope that means they are working with some manufacturer on a "Gaming" projector wiih HDMI and will support it in their drivers. Right now, i think the best thing to do is flood NVidia with requests so they are aware of the demand.
From what I understand, this is not possible right now and one key reason is NVidia's drivers don't support it. The other is that, as far as I know, there really isn't a consumer level projector capable of 1080p 3D above 48 Hz (24 frames per eye). (There is one projector that has displayport, but apparently there is some other technical limitation in the circuitry that prevents a full 120Hz in 1080p) New 3DTV's exist that can technically handle it, but again, then you fall into the NVidia 3DTV Play driver issue that doesn't support it.

There is another thread around here somewhere where somebody said they asked NVidia about it now that HDMI 2.0 is the standard and can handle 1080p 3D at 120Hz. The answer was something along the lines of "NVidia won't comment on potential future products." There are a lot of ways to take that response, but I really hope that means they are working with some manufacturer on a "Gaming" projector wiih HDMI and will support it in their drivers. Right now, i think the best thing to do is flood NVidia with requests so they are aware of the demand.

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#2
Posted 12/12/2014 06:10 PM   
Damn dude! That's crazy! Thanks so much for the response! I had an inkling that something like this may be the issue. I can't believe the foot dragging on 3d technology hey? What exactly is the best 3d gaming solution right now? Is it 720p pageflipping or is it 1080 in some interlaced format? (Checkerboard, line sequential, etc...) does the limitation lie within the hdmi spec or the limitation of nvidias drivers? And is there a 1080p 3d checkerboard projector? So when a projector states that it can do 144hz is that only for movies? Like why is that important at all outside of gaming? God that's lame since other than the hobbit, 3d movies are 24fps. I read once that 3d technology is before it's time and I guess that's pretty accurate., kind of sad too. Maybe it's betting on the oculus rift but I would, at the moment, prefer not to wear an apparatus on my head (beyond glasses) since it seriously encumbers the current simplicity of 3d. And my god, why is 3d tech so complicated to straighten out? Is there something amazing on the horizon that they're all waiting for? Full 1080p gaming man, it's all I'm asking for. Is there no solution?
Damn dude! That's crazy! Thanks so much for the response! I had an inkling that something like this may be the issue. I can't believe the foot dragging on 3d technology hey? What exactly is the best 3d gaming solution right now? Is it 720p pageflipping or is it 1080 in some interlaced format? (Checkerboard, line sequential, etc...) does the limitation lie within the hdmi spec or the limitation of nvidias drivers? And is there a 1080p 3d checkerboard projector?

So when a projector states that it can do 144hz is that only for movies? Like why is that important at all outside of gaming? God that's lame since other than the hobbit, 3d movies are 24fps.

I read once that 3d technology is before it's time and I guess that's pretty accurate., kind of sad too. Maybe it's betting on the oculus rift but I would, at the moment, prefer not to wear an apparatus on my head (beyond glasses) since it seriously encumbers the current simplicity of 3d.

And my god, why is 3d tech so complicated to straighten out? Is there something amazing on the horizon that they're all waiting for? Full 1080p gaming man, it's all I'm asking for. Is there no solution?

#3
Posted 12/12/2014 06:54 PM   
Yes it is confusing and I have learned through my experiences that 3D gaming preference are very subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I'll offer my opinion in terms of what I think is best in 3D gaming because I have experimented quite a bit over the last few years. I will include thoughts on TriDef, 3DTVPlay and Side by Side and two primary game resolutions that i have used. 1280x720 and 1920x1080. I'll touch on refresh rate as well. A projector is hands down the best experience and I have found through my current setup that resolution has taken a secondary position whereas in my previous setup with a Samsung 51 Inch, I use to game at 1920x1080@24hz using 3DTVPlay. This had the best visual experience for me and I could force most games that did not support 1920x1080@24hz using a tool called RefreshLock and sometimes using a DLL Injector for that purpose. You'll notice on many threads that some find the 1920x1080@24hz unacceptable. I did not however and was quite happy with the results. Now, as far as TriDef goes, I only ever use it if I have no other alternative to native Side by Side or 3DTVPlay and one game comes to mind (Hitman Absolution) where I use the SIde by Side method in TriDef Ignition software. I found the 3D results to be more than acceptable but unlike some other games, not as good as 3DTVplay. I like Doom 3 BFG since the game natively supports Side by Side and on both my previous and current setup, getting it to operate in 3D at 1920x1080 was pretty good with great performance. But subjectively, the performance was not that much better than the 1920x1080@24z. I guess I may be associating with the fact that I got used to playing games in this arrangement, but this I realize is subjective. With my current setup (BENQ W1070, GTX970), I have switched resolutions to 1280x720@60hz due to the large screen and practically zero ghosting (huge difference from the Samsung that I had). Mind you, I could play around with the Samsung settings with various games to make me happy enough. But purely from a resolution number 1280x720@60hz, on the projector, games actually look much better to me visually than they did with the 1920x1080@24hz. With a projector, you need the right environment and having the massive screen has increased the 3D immersion massively and I often use SweetFX injection to improve the visuals. I've been recently having many stellar gaming experiences. The Dead Space series is just incredible and immersive in my current arrangement. I thought the same very thing with my earlier Samsung setup and I also thought it couldn't get better than 1920x1080@24hz, boy I was wrong, the 1280x720@60hz on the projector is just that much better in terms of graphic fidelity. Anyway, to sum things up as it relates to current technology, I'd have to say the 3DTVplay has the best results hands down, originally I would try and get every game to work at 1920x1080@24hz because it was simply the best experience with my previous hardware. That opinion has changed for me because of the projector. 1280x720@60hz is terrific and I am more than happy with that. Having said that however, I wish 3DTVPlay would be updated to support other formats and have more flexability. We'll see what or if Nvidia has anything in store for the future of 3DVision. Good luck in your search for the ideal 3D gaming experience...
Yes it is confusing and I have learned through my experiences that 3D gaming preference are very subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I'll offer my opinion in terms of what I think is best in 3D gaming because I have experimented quite a bit over the last few years. I will include thoughts on TriDef, 3DTVPlay and Side by Side and two primary game resolutions that i have used. 1280x720 and 1920x1080. I'll touch on refresh rate as well.

A projector is hands down the best experience and I have found through my current setup that resolution has taken a secondary position whereas in my previous setup with a Samsung 51 Inch, I use to game at 1920x1080@24hz using 3DTVPlay. This had the best visual experience for me and I could force most games that did not support 1920x1080@24hz using a tool called RefreshLock and sometimes using a DLL Injector for that purpose. You'll notice on many threads that some find the 1920x1080@24hz unacceptable. I did not however and was quite happy with the results. Now, as far as TriDef goes, I only ever use it if I have no other alternative to native Side by Side or 3DTVPlay and one game comes to mind (Hitman Absolution) where I use the SIde by Side method in TriDef Ignition software. I found the 3D results to be more than acceptable but unlike some other games, not as good as 3DTVplay. I like Doom 3 BFG since the game natively supports Side by Side and on both my previous and current setup, getting it to operate in 3D at 1920x1080 was pretty good with great performance. But subjectively, the performance was not that much better than the 1920x1080@24z. I guess I may be associating with the fact that I got used to playing games in this arrangement, but this I realize is subjective.

With my current setup (BENQ W1070, GTX970), I have switched resolutions to 1280x720@60hz due to the large screen and practically zero ghosting (huge difference from the Samsung that I had). Mind you, I could play around with the Samsung settings with various games to make me happy enough. But purely from a resolution number 1280x720@60hz, on the projector, games actually look much better to me visually than they did with the 1920x1080@24hz. With a projector, you need the right environment and having the massive screen has increased the 3D immersion massively and I often use SweetFX injection to improve the visuals. I've been recently having many stellar gaming experiences. The Dead Space series is just incredible and immersive in my current arrangement. I thought the same very thing with my earlier Samsung setup and I also thought it couldn't get better than 1920x1080@24hz, boy I was wrong, the 1280x720@60hz on the projector is just that much better in terms of graphic fidelity.

Anyway, to sum things up as it relates to current technology, I'd have to say the 3DTVplay has the best results hands down, originally I would try and get every game to work at 1920x1080@24hz because it was simply the best experience with my previous hardware. That opinion has changed for me because of the projector. 1280x720@60hz is terrific and I am more than happy with that. Having said that however, I wish 3DTVPlay would be updated to support other formats and have more flexability. We'll see what or if Nvidia has anything in store for the future of 3DVision.

Good luck in your search for the ideal 3D gaming experience...

#4
Posted 12/12/2014 07:59 PM   
You can actually push the resolution higher with W1070 while still retaining 120Hz afaik. It's just not officially supported, no idea if it taxes the hardware more than normally (in a way that reduces the lifespan of some components that is). IIRC you can push it to around 1600xsomething resolution while retaining 120Hz refresh rate. Either way, I recommend GeDoSaTo. Or since you have 970, using that Nvidia's own downsampler. I forget what it's called - DSR maybe? I find it makes a big difference. While on the subject of W1070, what glasses do you use?
You can actually push the resolution higher with W1070 while still retaining 120Hz afaik. It's just not officially supported, no idea if it taxes the hardware more than normally (in a way that reduces the lifespan of some components that is). IIRC you can push it to around 1600xsomething resolution while retaining 120Hz refresh rate.

Either way, I recommend GeDoSaTo. Or since you have 970, using that Nvidia's own downsampler. I forget what it's called - DSR maybe? I find it makes a big difference.


While on the subject of W1070, what glasses do you use?

#5
Posted 12/12/2014 08:33 PM   
[quote="zynerd"]You can actually push the resolution higher with W1070 while still retaining 120Hz. It's just not officially supported, no idea if it taxes the hardware more than normally. IIRC you can push it to around 1600xsomething resolution while retaining 120Hz refresh rate. Either way, I recommend GeDoSaTo or since you have 970, using that Nvidia's own downsampler. I forget what it's called - DSR maybe? I find it makes a big difference. While on the subject of W1070, what glasses do you use?[/quote] Thanks, I have been learning more about the W1070 and I've only had it for several weeks. Would you happen to know of a good link on the GeDoSaTo since I have not heard of this. I need to educate myself on this subject. Also, I bought the projector on a promotion, two free USB chargeable BenQ 3D glasses. They work quite well with my setup and 3DTVPlay.
zynerd said:You can actually push the resolution higher with W1070 while still retaining 120Hz. It's just not officially supported, no idea if it taxes the hardware more than normally. IIRC you can push it to around 1600xsomething resolution while retaining 120Hz refresh rate.

Either way, I recommend GeDoSaTo or since you have 970, using that Nvidia's own downsampler. I forget what it's called - DSR maybe? I find it makes a big difference.


While on the subject of W1070, what glasses do you use?


Thanks, I have been learning more about the W1070 and I've only had it for several weeks. Would you happen to know of a good link on the GeDoSaTo since I have not heard of this. I need to educate myself on this subject. Also, I bought the projector on a promotion, two free USB chargeable BenQ 3D glasses. They work quite well with my setup and 3DTVPlay.

#6
Posted 12/12/2014 09:11 PM   
Sure! Here's the actual site even: http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?tag=gedosato
Sure! Here's the actual site even:


http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?tag=gedosato

#7
Posted 12/12/2014 09:13 PM   
[quote="zynerd"]Sure! Here's the actual site even: http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?tag=gedosato[/quote] Awesome, thanks for the lead on this, I will dig into this, cheers man!
zynerd said:Sure! Here's the actual site even:


http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?tag=gedosato



Awesome, thanks for the lead on this, I will dig into this, cheers man!

#8
Posted 12/12/2014 09:20 PM   
I play Iracing using an Optoma HD66 and use 3d Vision. Will the W1070 allow me to go up from 720 to 1080? And if it does will it still maintain 120hz? Does 3DTV Play work similar to 3d Vision for PC gaming? Sorry so many questions but I seem to be one of the few hanging onto my 3D and wondering why Nvidia seems to have abandoned the format. Looking for an upgrade. Thank you, Danny
I play Iracing using an Optoma HD66 and use 3d Vision.
Will the W1070 allow me to go up from 720 to 1080? And if it does will it still maintain 120hz?
Does 3DTV Play work similar to 3d Vision for PC gaming?
Sorry so many questions but I seem to be one of the few hanging onto my 3D and wondering why Nvidia seems to have abandoned the format. Looking for an upgrade.

Thank you, Danny

#9
Posted 12/12/2014 11:07 PM   
[quote="DannyR"]I play Iracing using an Optoma HD66 and use 3d Vision. Will the W1070 allow me to go up from 720 to 1080? And if it does will it still maintain 120hz? Does 3DTV Play work similar to 3d Vision for PC gaming? Sorry so many questions but I seem to be one of the few hanging onto my 3D and wondering why Nvidia seems to have abandoned the format. Looking for an upgrade. Thank you, Danny[/quote] No chance that W1070 can do 1080p at 120Hz. Non-2.0 HDMI does lend itself to it though and there's plenty of overclockers taking advantage of it, but you can quickly run into issues with the signal deteriorating or some parts not being able to handle it properly. But it's definitely possible - there's tons of TVs running at 120Hz over HDMI, for example. No idea about 3DTV Play. Might wanna wait for someone else to answer or just google it up. Either way, I'd hold on with getting a new projector. Don't get me wrong, as I think W1070 is really great for the price, but it wouldn't be too big of an upgrade for you.
DannyR said:I play Iracing using an Optoma HD66 and use 3d Vision.
Will the W1070 allow me to go up from 720 to 1080? And if it does will it still maintain 120hz?
Does 3DTV Play work similar to 3d Vision for PC gaming?
Sorry so many questions but I seem to be one of the few hanging onto my 3D and wondering why Nvidia seems to have abandoned the format. Looking for an upgrade.

Thank you, Danny

No chance that W1070 can do 1080p at 120Hz. Non-2.0 HDMI does lend itself to it though and there's plenty of overclockers taking advantage of it, but you can quickly run into issues with the signal deteriorating or some parts not being able to handle it properly. But it's definitely possible - there's tons of TVs running at 120Hz over HDMI, for example.

No idea about 3DTV Play. Might wanna wait for someone else to answer or just google it up.


Either way, I'd hold on with getting a new projector. Don't get me wrong, as I think W1070 is really great for the price, but it wouldn't be too big of an upgrade for you.

#10
Posted 12/13/2014 01:30 AM   
No-one has found a way to get the W1070 to run at 1080p 3d above 24fps per eye. Several people have tried, but I've not seen a working hack to get it above 720p/60hz. That being said, people have managed to use gedosato for downsampling (DX9 games only), and that does look very good. Others have been able to use nVidia's new DSR feature to achieve a similar result, however this doesn't always work (depends on the receiver, assuming you're using one for audio).
No-one has found a way to get the W1070 to run at 1080p 3d above 24fps per eye.

Several people have tried, but I've not seen a working hack to get it above 720p/60hz. That being said, people have managed to use gedosato for downsampling (DX9 games only), and that does look very good. Others have been able to use nVidia's new DSR feature to achieve a similar result, however this doesn't always work (depends on the receiver, assuming you're using one for audio).

#11
Posted 12/13/2014 05:23 AM   
Thanks for the quick responses. I guess I'll stick with what I have for now...it is still very good. Maybe Oculus Rift when the new consumer version appears will be a good option.
Thanks for the quick responses.
I guess I'll stick with what I have for now...it is still very good.
Maybe Oculus Rift when the new consumer version appears will be a good option.

#12
Posted 12/13/2014 08:35 PM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]No-one has found a way to get the W1070 to run at 1080p 3d above 24fps per eye. Several people have tried, but I've not seen a working hack to get it above 720p/60hz. That being said, people have managed to use gedosato for downsampling (DX9 games only), and that does look very good. Others have been able to use nVidia's new DSR feature to achieve a similar result, however this doesn't always work (depends on the receiver, assuming you're using one for audio).[/quote] Eh, I just tried pushing W1070 for fun. I seem to be able to get higher resolutions just fine. After certain point some artifacting/frame skipping seems to occur. But this was with an age-old (probably 7-8 years old) DVI-HDMI cable that's 10 meters long, which might easily be a factor. I'll try some more tomorrow once I swap the cable to a proper one. [edit:] 1408x792 worked without hitches at 120Hz. So I guess that myth is put to rest straight away. Pretty safe to say it could most likely go quite a bit beyond what I tested. And by default it has timings for 60Hz 1080p 3D in the firmware included, so not sure why you're saying it has 24Hz/eye max? Not that you'd want to, because it's absolutely terrible. But technically it's possible.
Pirateguybrush said:No-one has found a way to get the W1070 to run at 1080p 3d above 24fps per eye.

Several people have tried, but I've not seen a working hack to get it above 720p/60hz. That being said, people have managed to use gedosato for downsampling (DX9 games only), and that does look very good. Others have been able to use nVidia's new DSR feature to achieve a similar result, however this doesn't always work (depends on the receiver, assuming you're using one for audio).

Eh, I just tried pushing W1070 for fun. I seem to be able to get higher resolutions just fine. After certain point some artifacting/frame skipping seems to occur. But this was with an age-old (probably 7-8 years old) DVI-HDMI cable that's 10 meters long, which might easily be a factor. I'll try some more tomorrow once I swap the cable to a proper one.

[edit:] 1408x792 worked without hitches at 120Hz. So I guess that myth is put to rest straight away.

Pretty safe to say it could most likely go quite a bit beyond what I tested. And by default it has timings for 60Hz 1080p 3D in the firmware included, so not sure why you're saying it has 24Hz/eye max? Not that you'd want to, because it's absolutely terrible. But technically it's possible.

#13
Posted 12/13/2014 08:33 PM   
Would you be able to explain exactly how you did that? I'd love to test it out.
Would you be able to explain exactly how you did that? I'd love to test it out.

#14
Posted 12/14/2014 05:06 AM   
The problem with Downsampling when using an AVR in the chain, is that the audio video receiver can not process the audio signal when a downsampled resolution is sent through it. This is the problem that Pirateguybrush is running into, he could get around it by using an optical cable to the receiver but wants to maintain true 5.1
The problem with Downsampling when using an AVR in the chain, is that the audio video receiver can not process the audio signal when a downsampled resolution is sent through it.

This is the problem that Pirateguybrush is running into, he could get around it by using an optical cable to the receiver but wants to maintain true 5.1

#15
Posted 12/14/2014 02:01 PM   
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