Confused: is there a Helix DX11 wrapper?
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[quote="tehace"]I think many of you have remember what answer we got from the mods on BI forums, that 3d is a gimmick and they're not going to support it.[/quote] Yes! Given that, I very much relished buying the game at $20 instead of $60, and playing it in 3D thanks to HeliX instead of 2D as the developers gave up. Let's not lose sight of what's important here. We're all emphatically on the side of 3D. Therefore, I'm on the side of Eqzitara, HeliX, Tridef, 3DMigoto/Chiri, and still NVIDIA. I'm grateful for HeliX's Bioshock Infinite fix, and for the 3DMigoto team's efforts to do the same. 3D is the future but it's still struggling to establish itself at this point. We don't have the luxury to complain about how or who does so.
tehace said:I think many of you have remember what answer we got from the mods on BI forums, that 3d is a gimmick and they're not going to support it.


Yes! Given that, I very much relished buying the game at $20 instead of $60, and playing it in 3D thanks to HeliX instead of 2D as the developers gave up.

Let's not lose sight of what's important here. We're all emphatically on the side of 3D. Therefore, I'm on the side of Eqzitara, HeliX, Tridef, 3DMigoto/Chiri, and still NVIDIA. I'm grateful for HeliX's Bioshock Infinite fix, and for the 3DMigoto team's efforts to do the same. 3D is the future but it's still struggling to establish itself at this point. We don't have the luxury to complain about how or who does so.

Posted 12/05/2013 11:56 AM   
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7436/GEFORCE-G-SYNC-Performance_Chart_575px.jpg gsync monitors use displayport only? i think that will be not compatible with nvidia surround...:(

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7436/GEFORCE-G-SYNC-Performance_Chart_575px.jpg


gsync monitors use displayport only? i think that will be not compatible with nvidia surround...:(

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Posted 12/05/2013 11:51 AM   
I think that's a pretty big assumption, given this is only the first of one (announced) gsync monitors. Would be fantastic if that was the case though, lowering the barrier for entry into 3d would be fantastic (and may allow me to justify a surround upgrade).
I think that's a pretty big assumption, given this is only the first of one (announced) gsync monitors. Would be fantastic if that was the case though, lowering the barrier for entry into 3d would be fantastic (and may allow me to justify a surround upgrade).

Posted 12/05/2013 12:10 PM   
3D vision is supported over display port and has been for some time, although I haven't tried it myself. http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3064
3D vision is supported over display port and has been for some time, although I haven't tried it myself.


http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3064

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Posted 12/05/2013 11:03 PM   
[quote="murilladas"] http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7436/GEFORCE-G-SYNC-Performance_Chart_575px.jpg gsync monitors use displayport only? i think that will be not compatible with nvidia surround[/quote] at least as it stands now it looks like you're right Please note that with Release 290 drivers, NVIDIA 3D Vision Surround is not supported when using three monitors connected via DisplayPort. Please switch to DL-DVI for 3D Vision Surround support.
murilladas said:


http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7436/GEFORCE-G-SYNC-Performance_Chart_575px.jpg


gsync monitors use displayport only? i think that will be not compatible with nvidia surround


at least as it stands now it looks like you're right

Please note that with Release 290 drivers, NVIDIA 3D Vision Surround is not supported when using three monitors connected via DisplayPort. Please switch to DL-DVI for 3D Vision Surround support.

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Posted 12/06/2013 08:41 AM   
Actually, no matter what Helix does or does not, I'm starting to think that maybe fixing games may no longer be an option in the near future. I have absolutely no idea about how fixing 3d games works, but it's quite clear that games are getting a lot more complex by the day. Helix used to fix games in mere days, and maybe now he's not fixing them because it's not that 'easy' anymore.
Actually, no matter what Helix does or does not, I'm starting to think that maybe fixing games may no longer be an option in the near future. I have absolutely no idea about how fixing 3d games works, but it's quite clear that games are getting a lot more complex by the day. Helix used to fix games in mere days, and maybe now he's not fixing them because it's not that 'easy' anymore.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

Posted 12/06/2013 04:50 PM   
I am extremely thankful to Helix and many on this forum who have worked long and hard on many 3D Vision game fixes. What worries me is that with all the recent discussion about Helix in this forum and especially in this thread that I would of at least thought he could have replied if just to let us know that he is Ok. I would certainly understand if he's too busy on whether to further develop or not his DX11 wrapper, but at least he could just drop a quick line to say he is ok would only take a few seconds.
I am extremely thankful to Helix and many on this forum who have worked long and hard on many 3D Vision game fixes.

What worries me is that with all the recent discussion about Helix in this forum and especially in this thread that I would of at least thought he could have replied if just to let us know that he is Ok.

I would certainly understand if he's too busy on whether to further develop or not his DX11 wrapper, but at least he could just drop a quick line to say he is ok would only take a few seconds.
[quote="birthright"] Actually, no matter what Helix does or does not, I'm starting to think that maybe fixing games may no longer be an option in the near future. I have absolutely no idea about how fixing 3d games works, but it's quite clear that games are getting a lot more complex by the day. Helix used to fix games in mere days, and maybe now he's not fixing them because it's not that 'easy' anymore. [/quote] Well this is not the case for DX9 games at least. The complexity of games and all the fancy advanced graphics they have does not necessarily have anything to do with the technique for fixing an issue - fixing a deferred render Pixel Shader is usually the exact same regardless of what fancy stuff it's doing inside of it, you just need to identify the coord/texcoord to correct, even if you have no clue what else is going on. It's really very pattern-based. The problems come when a developer uses a different algorithm for recreating the world coord (for example), or using a non-standard depth buffer, or both (Cryengine is like this). Or when there is no access to data that you need to fix something (there are no VPMs anywhere in GTA4 to fix the shadows). But this is true of DX9 games right now. So the upshot of all this rambling is that I don't think game complexity is an issue just yet unless the entire approach to game programming changes (e.g. moving from shaders to 'something else'), and that is definitely not going to happen for many years.
birthright said: Actually, no matter what Helix does or does not, I'm starting to think that maybe fixing games may no longer be an option in the near future. I have absolutely no idea about how fixing 3d games works, but it's quite clear that games are getting a lot more complex by the day. Helix used to fix games in mere days, and maybe now he's not fixing them because it's not that 'easy' anymore.


Well this is not the case for DX9 games at least.

The complexity of games and all the fancy advanced graphics they have does not necessarily have anything to do with the technique for fixing an issue - fixing a deferred render Pixel Shader is usually the exact same regardless of what fancy stuff it's doing inside of it, you just need to identify the coord/texcoord to correct, even if you have no clue what else is going on. It's really very pattern-based. The problems come when a developer uses a different algorithm for recreating the world coord (for example), or using a non-standard depth buffer, or both (Cryengine is like this). Or when there is no access to data that you need to fix something (there are no VPMs anywhere in GTA4 to fix the shadows). But this is true of DX9 games right now. So the upshot of all this rambling is that I don't think game complexity is an issue just yet unless the entire approach to game programming changes (e.g. moving from shaders to 'something else'), and that is definitely not going to happen for many years.

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Posted 12/06/2013 06:42 PM   
[quote="birthright"] Actually, no matter what Helix does or does not, I'm starting to think that maybe fixing games may no longer be an option in the near future. I have absolutely no idea about how fixing 3d games works, but it's quite clear that games are getting a lot more complex by the day. Helix used to fix games in mere days, and maybe now he's not fixing them because it's not that 'easy' anymore. [/quote] Lol, it only used to take [u]mere[/u] days... thats a lot of free time per game. Its actually easier now then before for him because he can write lua scripts for games with lots of shaders. People got to realize... he's not fixing a game. He is writing a high compatible dx11 wrapper so whose to say how long it will take and how much free time he has to do it. There really aren't many and his wrappers are the most complex. ----------------------------------- I already said earlier, I spoke to him 3 weeks ago. I really can't blame him for not showing up here I even took a month off this forums. Alot of you are impatient in a good way[more neutral I guess], some others in a very negative way.
birthright said: Actually, no matter what Helix does or does not, I'm starting to think that maybe fixing games may no longer be an option in the near future. I have absolutely no idea about how fixing 3d games works, but it's quite clear that games are getting a lot more complex by the day. Helix used to fix games in mere days, and maybe now he's not fixing them because it's not that 'easy' anymore.

Lol, it only used to take mere days... thats a lot of free time per game.
Its actually easier now then before for him because he can write lua scripts for games with lots of shaders.
People got to realize... he's not fixing a game. He is writing a high compatible dx11 wrapper so whose to say how long it will take and how much free time he has to do it. There really aren't many and his wrappers are the most complex.
-----------------------------------
I already said earlier, I spoke to him 3 weeks ago. I really can't blame him for not showing up here I even took a month off this forums. Alot of you are impatient in a good way[more neutral I guess], some others in a very negative way.

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Posted 12/06/2013 06:46 PM   
Just got caught up with this thread and I'm flabbergasted and at the same time embarassed to be the same group called gamers with those that have no common sense, spoiled rotten brats. How could someone in their right mind even question Helix's modus operandi? The man is clealy just a passionate gamer who's very talented in what he does and he has been working for free on his own time to save 3D Vision gaming. He's a free agent, doing whatever he choses. To be trueful, I have not used any of his fix nor any of other's gamers' Helixmod fix, just haven't got back to gaming entirely, but my god these people are tireless and passionate (Eqzitara, Mike_ar69, bo3b especially, there are others as well I'm sure) and I feel grateful and so fortunate that there are such dedicated talented gamers that save my hobby and they have my respect for that, let alone based on the few of their correspondence, they are intelligent and kind people. To those, you know who you are: to question and degrade the effort of saving our hobby shows a clouded mind that does not see clearly, there is no justification for that whatsoever, those people are not your mother that you can throw a tantrum when she removes her tits from your greedy mouth. Here's something that I copied/paste on the net for you: "The meaning of 'Don't bite the tits that feeds you' is not to disrespect the ones that take care of you, whether it be your parents or not. Even in the work place, it would mean your boss is the one that signs your paycheck. Either way, do not disrespect people that are there for you." For Helix and those who fix 3D games, do not pay attention to the ramble and whining of spoiled teenagers that seem to think they are entitled to everything in this world. They aren't worth much really until they become more mature and behave properly and intelligently among men by making a living and supporting a family by themselves and not waiting with opened greedy mouth and paws begging for everything and anything.
Just got caught up with this thread and I'm flabbergasted and at the same time embarassed to be the same group called gamers with those that have no common sense, spoiled rotten brats.

How could someone in their right mind even question Helix's modus operandi? The man is clealy just a passionate gamer who's very talented in what he does and he has been working for free on his own time to save 3D Vision gaming. He's a free agent, doing whatever he choses. To be trueful, I have not used any of his fix nor any of other's gamers' Helixmod fix, just haven't got back to gaming entirely, but my god these people are tireless and passionate (Eqzitara, Mike_ar69, bo3b especially, there are others as well I'm sure) and I feel grateful and so fortunate that there are such dedicated talented gamers that save my hobby and they have my respect for that, let alone based on the few of their correspondence, they are intelligent and kind people.

To those, you know who you are: to question and degrade the effort of saving our hobby shows a clouded mind that does not see clearly, there is no justification for that whatsoever, those people are not your mother that you can throw a tantrum when she removes her tits from your greedy mouth. Here's something that I copied/paste on the net for you: "The meaning of 'Don't bite the tits that feeds you' is not to disrespect the ones that take care of you, whether it be your parents or not. Even in the work place, it would mean your boss is the one that signs your paycheck. Either way, do not disrespect people that are there for you."

For Helix and those who fix 3D games, do not pay attention to the ramble and whining of spoiled teenagers that seem to think they are entitled to everything in this world. They aren't worth much really until they become more mature and behave properly and intelligently among men by making a living and supporting a family by themselves and not waiting with opened greedy mouth and paws begging for everything and anything.

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Posted 12/06/2013 09:39 PM   
+1, Helix shouldn't update us on anything. Its too much to ask and it could set a president that he felt the need to comply with or open himself up to further questions. That said, i am sympathetic to younger gamers, because i know based on my experience at least, when i was younger i couldn't hardly wait for some games to release or even get updates to their progress. It crystal clear to me that your energy should be released in Nvidia's direction though, now that it has been shown that games, even DX11 games, can be fixed by a single additional Nvidia employee...
+1, Helix shouldn't update us on anything. Its too much to ask and it could set a president that he felt the need to comply with or open himself up to further questions.

That said, i am sympathetic to younger gamers, because i know based on my experience at least, when i was younger i couldn't hardly wait for some games to release or even get updates to their progress. It crystal clear to me that your energy should be released in Nvidia's direction though, now that it has been shown that games, even DX11 games, can be fixed by a single additional Nvidia employee...

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Posted 12/07/2013 01:39 AM   
Great post distant.
Great post distant.

Posted 12/07/2013 02:35 AM   
I guess I don't understand in what universe is it ok to somehow expect or otherwise be negative towards gifted and generous people who have donated their time, energy, efforts and skill. While I'm very grateful for the fixes that many have made and a handful or more of the games I've played this year are playable to almost perfect in 3D I'm in no way expecting ANYONE to fix current or future games because they may (or may not) of done so in the past. To those that have fixed games that I have played: Thanks!
I guess I don't understand in what universe is it ok to somehow expect or otherwise be negative towards gifted and generous people who have donated their time, energy, efforts and skill.

While I'm very grateful for the fixes that many have made and a handful or more of the games I've played this year are playable to almost perfect in 3D I'm in no way expecting ANYONE to fix current or future games because they may (or may not) of done so in the past.

To those that have fixed games that I have played: Thanks!

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Posted 12/07/2013 03:49 AM   
[quote="ddorpm"]I am extremely thankful to Helix and many on this forum who have worked long and hard on many 3D Vision game fixes. What worries me is that with all the recent discussion about Helix in this forum and especially in this thread that I would of at least thought he could have replied if just to let us know that he is Ok. I would certainly understand if he's too busy on whether to further develop or not his DX11 wrapper, but at least he could just drop a quick line to say he is ok would only take a few seconds. [/quote]Well, this one seems fairly clear to me. This forum software is lame. You can't get any notification to threads, and you can't subscribe to threads. So, that requires us all to troll the forum periodically, and when I get too busy I stop reading the forum. So, I'd expect that Helix being a very busy man just simply does not read the forums on a regular basis. Lack of response doesn't mean anything, he probably never sees these posts. For Chiri, I spoke with him awhile back, and the silence on his end is because he is looking for new work and 3D fixes are low priority when you need to make a living. The silence from our champions doesn't mean anything other than they are really busy, and this stuff is really hard to get done in your spare time. You have to give it time, and in the end, if nothing happens, you need to be OK with that too.
ddorpm said:I am extremely thankful to Helix and many on this forum who have worked long and hard on many 3D Vision game fixes.

What worries me is that with all the recent discussion about Helix in this forum and especially in this thread that I would of at least thought he could have replied if just to let us know that he is Ok.

I would certainly understand if he's too busy on whether to further develop or not his DX11 wrapper, but at least he could just drop a quick line to say he is ok would only take a few seconds.
Well, this one seems fairly clear to me. This forum software is lame. You can't get any notification to threads, and you can't subscribe to threads. So, that requires us all to troll the forum periodically, and when I get too busy I stop reading the forum.

So, I'd expect that Helix being a very busy man just simply does not read the forums on a regular basis. Lack of response doesn't mean anything, he probably never sees these posts.


For Chiri, I spoke with him awhile back, and the silence on his end is because he is looking for new work and 3D fixes are low priority when you need to make a living.

The silence from our champions doesn't mean anything other than they are really busy, and this stuff is really hard to get done in your spare time. You have to give it time, and in the end, if nothing happens, you need to be OK with that too.

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Posted 12/07/2013 04:37 AM   
I don't want to make excuses for people, because I think some people have acted petulant and unfair. But I don't think anyone has been angrily demanding that the modders *give them what they want now now now why isn't it here yet wah wah*. That's not what they're angry about. What people are upset about is that for a long time, there was almost zero action on the DX11 front. Then all of a sudden the migoto people came out of nowhere, showed they were committed to a DX11 Bioshock fix, revealed a plan of action, gave it a concrete deadline. There was light at the end of the tunnel, and it was closer than anyone had thought. The community was overjoyed. Even better, the community talked them into making it a universal wrapper that could be used for more than Bioshock. Then Helix resurfaced out of hiatus and - wittingly or unwittingly - killed the project with his own promise of a BI fix....and then promptly disappeared again. And now we're pretty much back where we started: limbo, no DX11 fix on the horizon, Helix is nowhere to be seen, but now the air has been let out of the migoto balloon too. People were left with their money in their hand, again powerless to do anything towards making a DX11 fix a reality. Yeah, I know, people still wanted to support the indiego campaign, but realistically it was too late as it had become a sinking ship. WITHOUT ANY NEED TO BLAME ANYBODY, this is actually a pretty valid reason to be disappointed. The way some people reacted is uncool, unfair, and ungrateful. But the source of frustration itself is a pretty valid one. If people don't at least acknowledge this, then I suspect this kind of friction will not resolve itself, and I don't think anyone wants that. Where I differ from those who are criticising Helix is that I honestly don't think any of the parties involved did anything wrong. The communication certainly could have been better from both sides (both working on Bioshock Infinite at the same time without knowing it? Doh), but that's the nature of modding: it's comprised of passion projects by semi-anonymous people in different countries who don't know much about each other and work to irregular schedules. It happened, it's a shame, but that's life, and that's modding. Furthermore, I believe that Helix resurfaced when he did out of good will. He wanted the community to know that they were paying thousands of dollars for something that was going to be free in a couple of months. Even though he doesn't owe us anything, he did this as as a courtesy to us, which I, for one, appreciate. Anyway, the other thing that makes me wonder is....doesn't everyone already have lots of 3D games to play? I'm still getting through games I bought at the 2010 Steam xmas sale, for cryin' out loud. I want a DX11 wrapper as much as anyone (especially for Thief next year!), but if it takes another many months to surface, it's not exactly the end of the world.
I don't want to make excuses for people, because I think some people have acted petulant and unfair. But I don't think anyone has been angrily demanding that the modders *give them what they want now now now why isn't it here yet wah wah*. That's not what they're angry about.

What people are upset about is that for a long time, there was almost zero action on the DX11 front. Then all of a sudden the migoto people came out of nowhere, showed they were committed to a DX11 Bioshock fix, revealed a plan of action, gave it a concrete deadline. There was light at the end of the tunnel, and it was closer than anyone had thought. The community was overjoyed. Even better, the community talked them into making it a universal wrapper that could be used for more than Bioshock.

Then Helix resurfaced out of hiatus and - wittingly or unwittingly - killed the project with his own promise of a BI fix....and then promptly disappeared again. And now we're pretty much back where we started: limbo, no DX11 fix on the horizon, Helix is nowhere to be seen, but now the air has been let out of the migoto balloon too. People were left with their money in their hand, again powerless to do anything towards making a DX11 fix a reality. Yeah, I know, people still wanted to support the indiego campaign, but realistically it was too late as it had become a sinking ship.

WITHOUT ANY NEED TO BLAME ANYBODY, this is actually a pretty valid reason to be disappointed. The way some people reacted is uncool, unfair, and ungrateful. But the source of frustration itself is a pretty valid one. If people don't at least acknowledge this, then I suspect this kind of friction will not resolve itself, and I don't think anyone wants that.

Where I differ from those who are criticising Helix is that I honestly don't think any of the parties involved did anything wrong. The communication certainly could have been better from both sides (both working on Bioshock Infinite at the same time without knowing it? Doh), but that's the nature of modding: it's comprised of passion projects by semi-anonymous people in different countries who don't know much about each other and work to irregular schedules. It happened, it's a shame, but that's life, and that's modding.

Furthermore, I believe that Helix resurfaced when he did out of good will. He wanted the community to know that they were paying thousands of dollars for something that was going to be free in a couple of months. Even though he doesn't owe us anything, he did this as as a courtesy to us, which I, for one, appreciate.


Anyway, the other thing that makes me wonder is....doesn't everyone already have lots of 3D games to play? I'm still getting through games I bought at the 2010 Steam xmas sale, for cryin' out loud. I want a DX11 wrapper as much as anyone (especially for Thief next year!), but if it takes another many months to surface, it's not exactly the end of the world.

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Posted 12/07/2013 09:57 AM   
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