My 3D Vision experiences ... I'd like some feedback
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Going to list my current experiences with Nvidia, and my expectations, and hopefully get some feedback~

I saw Nvidia 3D Vision technology at CES last year, thought it was amazing, and bought it.
At the time I had a Mitsubishi 3D-Ready 65" DLP.
The picture for it was amazing, using a GTX 280 graphics card ... unfortunately the DLP has a massive overscan, like 20%, and it can not be corrected.
It can use a fake 1080p resolution thats like 1810x1000 or something, but several games don't even support custom resolutions.
On top of that, DLPs tend to look HORRIBLE for PC Font text, like incredibly blurry.


So, I bought a Alienware 24" whatevermodel# 120hz LCD.
This looked good with Nvidia 3D Vision, no overscan (of course!) but it has extreme ghosting problems in some games. For example, Everquest 2, you can't look at water or certain buildings because you'll see two of them.
Even in WoW, looking at your flying mount you'll see two heads on it and whatnot.
Some games, do look amazing, like Mafia II or Resident Evil, but a lot of 3D games had too much ghosting.
One game that works EXCEPTIONALLY well is Left 4 Dead (1 and 2, especially 2). I recall my girlfriend almost jumping out of the chair playing that game with the 3D on :D


Anyways, this one here is the kicker.
I just bought a 46" LED LCD Sony Bravia during the black friday sales, their top of the line 3D TV.
Well, unfortunately it's not supported by "NVidia 3D Vision", the connection won't even plug into the back of the TV.
So, Nvidia unveils this "3DTV Play/3D Vision" thing ... and I use a HDMI 1.4 high bandwidth monster HDMI cable specifically labled for 3D ...
and I run into a some extreme limitations ...
1080p at 24hz is absolutely unplayable. There is such extreme input lag, you move the mouse or keyboard and the game responds half a second later, I never realized how bad it was, but it was simply not playable.

Something interesting, some 3D Vision games that would never enable 3D before, like Final Fantasy XIV, suddenly worked (and still to this day ONLY work in 3DTV Play) and looks amazing. I don't know why FFXIV is rated poorly in 3D Vision, it looked absolutely fantastic, except for extreme input lag due to 24hz.

Anyways ... 720p is unplayable in 3D mode because of extreme ghosting, and on top of that, menus are just too big.
Even if I can deal with that, 720p on a LCD @ 60hz has extreme ghosting for some reason, like it's not even really looking 3D.




So, what in the hell am I supposed to do here for a good 3D Vision Experience?
I've tried 3D Vision on a DLP, with good looking 3D, but horrible overscan, at 1920x1080 @ 60hz (Almost no ghosting though!!)
I've tried a 24" LCD 120hz Monitor, with extreme ghosting in some cases, other times its ok.
I've tried 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 @ 24hz (HORRIBLE!!! Whoever thought this was a good idea is an IDIOT!!!!!!!), and 1280x720 @ 60hz with -horrible- ghosting. Extreme ghosting.
The game I'm citing for this is Dragon Age Origins, when I played it, with 3D on, I saw double of everything, I could tell the glasses were on, and 3D was on, and it was trying to do the effect, but it just was not working well.

Is there no right answer to a quality 3D experience?
I've been buying Nvidia products since the "GeForce 2" almost every 6 months but I've just about had it trying to get a good 3D experience.
I'm currently using two GTX 480s in SLI and using Monitor 1 as the 24" Alienware LCD, and the Monitor 2 as the 42" LCD 3D HDTV.

We need 3DTV play to work at 1920x1080p @ 60hz like it does on the DLPs, why can't it work on LCDs too? I have a 240hz >.>
Going to list my current experiences with Nvidia, and my expectations, and hopefully get some feedback~



I saw Nvidia 3D Vision technology at CES last year, thought it was amazing, and bought it.

At the time I had a Mitsubishi 3D-Ready 65" DLP.

The picture for it was amazing, using a GTX 280 graphics card ... unfortunately the DLP has a massive overscan, like 20%, and it can not be corrected.

It can use a fake 1080p resolution thats like 1810x1000 or something, but several games don't even support custom resolutions.

On top of that, DLPs tend to look HORRIBLE for PC Font text, like incredibly blurry.





So, I bought a Alienware 24" whatevermodel# 120hz LCD.

This looked good with Nvidia 3D Vision, no overscan (of course!) but it has extreme ghosting problems in some games. For example, Everquest 2, you can't look at water or certain buildings because you'll see two of them.

Even in WoW, looking at your flying mount you'll see two heads on it and whatnot.

Some games, do look amazing, like Mafia II or Resident Evil, but a lot of 3D games had too much ghosting.

One game that works EXCEPTIONALLY well is Left 4 Dead (1 and 2, especially 2). I recall my girlfriend almost jumping out of the chair playing that game with the 3D on :D





Anyways, this one here is the kicker.

I just bought a 46" LED LCD Sony Bravia during the black friday sales, their top of the line 3D TV.

Well, unfortunately it's not supported by "NVidia 3D Vision", the connection won't even plug into the back of the TV.

So, Nvidia unveils this "3DTV Play/3D Vision" thing ... and I use a HDMI 1.4 high bandwidth monster HDMI cable specifically labled for 3D ...

and I run into a some extreme limitations ...

1080p at 24hz is absolutely unplayable. There is such extreme input lag, you move the mouse or keyboard and the game responds half a second later, I never realized how bad it was, but it was simply not playable.



Something interesting, some 3D Vision games that would never enable 3D before, like Final Fantasy XIV, suddenly worked (and still to this day ONLY work in 3DTV Play) and looks amazing. I don't know why FFXIV is rated poorly in 3D Vision, it looked absolutely fantastic, except for extreme input lag due to 24hz.



Anyways ... 720p is unplayable in 3D mode because of extreme ghosting, and on top of that, menus are just too big.

Even if I can deal with that, 720p on a LCD @ 60hz has extreme ghosting for some reason, like it's not even really looking 3D.









So, what in the hell am I supposed to do here for a good 3D Vision Experience?

I've tried 3D Vision on a DLP, with good looking 3D, but horrible overscan, at 1920x1080 @ 60hz (Almost no ghosting though!!)

I've tried a 24" LCD 120hz Monitor, with extreme ghosting in some cases, other times its ok.

I've tried 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 @ 24hz (HORRIBLE!!! Whoever thought this was a good idea is an IDIOT!!!!!!!), and 1280x720 @ 60hz with -horrible- ghosting. Extreme ghosting.

The game I'm citing for this is Dragon Age Origins, when I played it, with 3D on, I saw double of everything, I could tell the glasses were on, and 3D was on, and it was trying to do the effect, but it just was not working well.



Is there no right answer to a quality 3D experience?

I've been buying Nvidia products since the "GeForce 2" almost every 6 months but I've just about had it trying to get a good 3D experience.

I'm currently using two GTX 480s in SLI and using Monitor 1 as the 24" Alienware LCD, and the Monitor 2 as the 42" LCD 3D HDTV.



We need 3DTV play to work at 1920x1080p @ 60hz like it does on the DLPs, why can't it work on LCDs too? I have a 240hz >.>

#1
Posted 12/04/2010 12:34 PM   
I have a 23.6 inch acer monitor looks good.. I don't know why so many people want to play 3d games on their television.. The compatibility is still sketchy. Stick to a good monitor.
I have a 23.6 inch acer monitor looks good.. I don't know why so many people want to play 3d games on their television.. The compatibility is still sketchy. Stick to a good monitor.

#2
Posted 12/04/2010 01:07 PM   
Ghosting in DA:O?? That shouldn't be happening very much.

Here, save [url=http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3483/astickinmyeyecopy.jpg]this image[/url] then rename it to be a .jps file. Doubleclick on it to see it in 3D. Is there ghosting in this picture on your Alienware monitor? The only anomoly I get is some oddness in the portraits in the upper left with everything else looking great.

I don't know much about the 3DTV scene but I do remember hearing something about how the HDMI cable protocols aren't designed to handle 1920x1080 pixels in 3D.

(And yeah, I found the 24Hz thing to be stupid, too. My friends tell me that this gives a more movie-like experience because that's the framerate in theaters. I guess there wouldn't be much point in showing two or three frames that are exactly the same anyway, but I don't see how it's an improvement. {shrug})
Ghosting in DA:O?? That shouldn't be happening very much.



Here, save this image then rename it to be a .jps file. Doubleclick on it to see it in 3D. Is there ghosting in this picture on your Alienware monitor? The only anomoly I get is some oddness in the portraits in the upper left with everything else looking great.



I don't know much about the 3DTV scene but I do remember hearing something about how the HDMI cable protocols aren't designed to handle 1920x1080 pixels in 3D.



(And yeah, I found the 24Hz thing to be stupid, too. My friends tell me that this gives a more movie-like experience because that's the framerate in theaters. I guess there wouldn't be much point in showing two or three frames that are exactly the same anyway, but I don't see how it's an improvement. {shrug})

#3
Posted 12/04/2010 02:40 PM   
[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
So, I bought a Alienware 24" whatevermodel# 120hz LCD.
This looked good with Nvidia 3D Vision, no overscan (of course!) but it has extreme ghosting problems in some games. For example, Everquest 2, you can't look at water or certain buildings because you'll see two of them.
Even in WoW, looking at your flying mount you'll see two heads on it and whatnot.
Some games, do look amazing, like Mafia II or Resident Evil, but a lot of 3D games had too much ghosting.
One game that works EXCEPTIONALLY well is Left 4 Dead (1 and 2, especially 2). I recall my girlfriend almost jumping out of the chair playing that game with the 3D on :D

So, what in the hell am I supposed to do here for a good 3D Vision Experience?
[/quote]

I think what you are describing here is not ghosting. From my limited 3D gaming experience, I found that sky and water (and other things) are sometimes not rendered properly in 3D. The way I check for ghosting is like this: close one eye. If what you see looks 100% normal, then its not ghosting. If you see a double image with one eye closed, then it's ghosting. Try both eyes because sometimes I see more ghosting in one eye than the other. By the way. I prefer dark games and I rarely see ghosting.

I am now playing Clive barker's jericho which looks excellent in 3D. Before that, I finished, Call of Cthulu which looked fine in 3D except for the sky but the game is mostly at night or inside, so sky is not distracting. L4D does look great in 3D. Too bad I did not have 3D vision last winter when I was playing that game almost every day.

People say "avatar" (the game) looks great in 3D. I will try it when it's next on sale at steam.

Adjust the convergence/depth too because they can create double images. I like to play with "high" convergence, so for me, the foreground is usually a double image but the background looks great.
[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

So, I bought a Alienware 24" whatevermodel# 120hz LCD.

This looked good with Nvidia 3D Vision, no overscan (of course!) but it has extreme ghosting problems in some games. For example, Everquest 2, you can't look at water or certain buildings because you'll see two of them.

Even in WoW, looking at your flying mount you'll see two heads on it and whatnot.

Some games, do look amazing, like Mafia II or Resident Evil, but a lot of 3D games had too much ghosting.

One game that works EXCEPTIONALLY well is Left 4 Dead (1 and 2, especially 2). I recall my girlfriend almost jumping out of the chair playing that game with the 3D on :D



So, what in the hell am I supposed to do here for a good 3D Vision Experience?





I think what you are describing here is not ghosting. From my limited 3D gaming experience, I found that sky and water (and other things) are sometimes not rendered properly in 3D. The way I check for ghosting is like this: close one eye. If what you see looks 100% normal, then its not ghosting. If you see a double image with one eye closed, then it's ghosting. Try both eyes because sometimes I see more ghosting in one eye than the other. By the way. I prefer dark games and I rarely see ghosting.



I am now playing Clive barker's jericho which looks excellent in 3D. Before that, I finished, Call of Cthulu which looked fine in 3D except for the sky but the game is mostly at night or inside, so sky is not distracting. L4D does look great in 3D. Too bad I did not have 3D vision last winter when I was playing that game almost every day.



People say "avatar" (the game) looks great in 3D. I will try it when it's next on sale at steam.



Adjust the convergence/depth too because they can create double images. I like to play with "high" convergence, so for me, the foreground is usually a double image but the background looks great.

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#4
Posted 12/04/2010 03:51 PM   
Dang zloth I wish I had 3D when playing through DA, thats some serious pop out!

defmetal, I hear you!
I got a DLP and the overscan is killing me!! (SC2 at such small resolutions!) I was looking at getting a flatpanel just so I can play blizzard games. But now your post has gotten me thinking...

So whats a 3D fanatic to do?
A: Wait and see.
We're all early adapters and the hardware just i'snt available yet. I think the real problem is hdmi, they say theres just not enough bandwidth to shoot two 1920x1080 images 60 times a second. I believe DLPs can do 1920x1080@60hz because they use the checkerboard format, meaning its not actually two 1920x1080 frames 60 times a second. I mean we're only at hdmi 1.4 right? Maybe they're developing higher bandwidth cables, when hdmi 2.0 comes around we'll see 60hz available for 3D gaming... possibly.

No one "thought up" 24hz, thats just all that is currently capable of this gen. hardware. 120hz and 240hz on lcd tvs are "motion interpolation" which is the insertion of extra frames, while the screen IS refreshing 120 times per second it is not taking 120 true frames from the source. these are features on the tv to reduce motion blur.
Dang zloth I wish I had 3D when playing through DA, thats some serious pop out!



defmetal, I hear you!

I got a DLP and the overscan is killing me!! (SC2 at such small resolutions!) I was looking at getting a flatpanel just so I can play blizzard games. But now your post has gotten me thinking...



So whats a 3D fanatic to do?

A: Wait and see.

We're all early adapters and the hardware just i'snt available yet. I think the real problem is hdmi, they say theres just not enough bandwidth to shoot two 1920x1080 images 60 times a second. I believe DLPs can do 1920x1080@60hz because they use the checkerboard format, meaning its not actually two 1920x1080 frames 60 times a second. I mean we're only at hdmi 1.4 right? Maybe they're developing higher bandwidth cables, when hdmi 2.0 comes around we'll see 60hz available for 3D gaming... possibly.



No one "thought up" 24hz, thats just all that is currently capable of this gen. hardware. 120hz and 240hz on lcd tvs are "motion interpolation" which is the insertion of extra frames, while the screen IS refreshing 120 times per second it is not taking 120 true frames from the source. these are features on the tv to reduce motion blur.

#5
Posted 12/04/2010 06:36 PM   
Only one feedback: Not sure what you meant by "fake" resolution but resizing desktop (from Nvidia CP) has never given me a problem (with custom resolution). If a game can play in 3D you can resize the desktop and it will work. Also, if haven't yet you might want to check out the knowledge base from customer support page, I don't have a link handy, but recall it has a solution of some kind for Mits overscan issue, though I've never need to use it. You're right that there is no other technology which, beside DLP, can give a ghost free 3D experience.

[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 05:34 AM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
It can use a fake 1080p resolution thats like 1810x1000 or something, but several games don't even support custom resolutions.
[/quote]
Only one feedback: Not sure what you meant by "fake" resolution but resizing desktop (from Nvidia CP) has never given me a problem (with custom resolution). If a game can play in 3D you can resize the desktop and it will work. Also, if haven't yet you might want to check out the knowledge base from customer support page, I don't have a link handy, but recall it has a solution of some kind for Mits overscan issue, though I've never need to use it. You're right that there is no other technology which, beside DLP, can give a ghost free 3D experience.



[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 05:34 AM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

It can use a fake 1080p resolution thats like 1810x1000 or something, but several games don't even support custom resolutions.

Xeon X5675 hex cores @4.4 GHz, GTX 1070, win10 pro
i7 7700k 5GHz, RTX 2080, win10 pro
Benq 2720Z, w1070, Oculus Rift cv1, Samsung Odyssey+

#6
Posted 12/04/2010 09:40 PM   
[quote name='distant' date='04 December 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1291498823' post='1155822']
Only one feedback: Not sure what you meant by "fake" resolution but resizing desktop (from Nvidia CP) has never given me a problem (with custom resolution). If a game can play in 3D you can resize the desktop and it will work. Also, if haven't yet you might want to check out the knowledge base from customer support page, I don't have a link handy, but recall it has a solution of some kind for Mits overscan issue, though I've never need to use it. You're right that there is no other technology which, beside DLP, can give a ghost free 3D experience.
[/quote]

So it seems the answer to the problem is, to make a DLP that doesn't have overscan.... so what get a 3D Projector?
Now, my DLP actually lets me get rid of the overscan but only when 3D mode is disabled >.>
And even then, the fonts are still hurting the eyes to read unless they are really large fonts. Definitely not crisp-clean text when viewing a DLP.


But even in WoW I'm getting a lot of ghosting and that's one of their flagship 3D games, it even has in-game 3D settings.
Now, objects in the distance look ok. Although whenever I look at water in Warcraft I see two of everything in the reflection now (when using 3D).

My advice to anyone waiting to jump into this technology is to just wait. I've tried every option available, and all have major flaws. Except maybe Left4Dead for some reason. I don't know why but Source games seem to handle 3D the best out of all games I've tried.

If the -only- games you want to play, are games that you can correct the resolution, and have large fonts, and can play with a Xbox 360 controller, such as Left 4 Dead 2, get a DLP TV and use that. Otherwise this technology is just headaches. The more you use 3D Vision the more problems you realize it has. Don't think about trying 3DTV Play for -gaming-, it will just disappoint. If you want 3D Blurays using your computer, by all means I'm sure it will work fine.

If you own a 3D DLP but are thinking about getting 3d Vision, try playing your games on the TV, and see how you like it without the 3D first, because the 3D makes it worse, and if its already annoying you, it won't get any better.
[quote name='distant' date='04 December 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1291498823' post='1155822']

Only one feedback: Not sure what you meant by "fake" resolution but resizing desktop (from Nvidia CP) has never given me a problem (with custom resolution). If a game can play in 3D you can resize the desktop and it will work. Also, if haven't yet you might want to check out the knowledge base from customer support page, I don't have a link handy, but recall it has a solution of some kind for Mits overscan issue, though I've never need to use it. You're right that there is no other technology which, beside DLP, can give a ghost free 3D experience.





So it seems the answer to the problem is, to make a DLP that doesn't have overscan.... so what get a 3D Projector?

Now, my DLP actually lets me get rid of the overscan but only when 3D mode is disabled >.>

And even then, the fonts are still hurting the eyes to read unless they are really large fonts. Definitely not crisp-clean text when viewing a DLP.





But even in WoW I'm getting a lot of ghosting and that's one of their flagship 3D games, it even has in-game 3D settings.

Now, objects in the distance look ok. Although whenever I look at water in Warcraft I see two of everything in the reflection now (when using 3D).



My advice to anyone waiting to jump into this technology is to just wait. I've tried every option available, and all have major flaws. Except maybe Left4Dead for some reason. I don't know why but Source games seem to handle 3D the best out of all games I've tried.



If the -only- games you want to play, are games that you can correct the resolution, and have large fonts, and can play with a Xbox 360 controller, such as Left 4 Dead 2, get a DLP TV and use that. Otherwise this technology is just headaches. The more you use 3D Vision the more problems you realize it has. Don't think about trying 3DTV Play for -gaming-, it will just disappoint. If you want 3D Blurays using your computer, by all means I'm sure it will work fine.



If you own a 3D DLP but are thinking about getting 3d Vision, try playing your games on the TV, and see how you like it without the 3D first, because the 3D makes it worse, and if its already annoying you, it won't get any better.

#7
Posted 12/04/2010 11:19 PM   
Are you certain what you're seeing in WOW is ghosting?
Water at any level above fair is broken in S3D, and the sky doesn't render correctly.
Are you certain what you're seeing in WOW is ghosting?

Water at any level above fair is broken in S3D, and the sky doesn't render correctly.
#8
Posted 12/04/2010 11:47 PM   
Yeah but its not as bad in WoW.

You notice it more on close up objects, such as your own character or your mount.
With most objects you look at on the LCD you see a faint double image.
Yeah but its not as bad in WoW.



You notice it more on close up objects, such as your own character or your mount.

With most objects you look at on the LCD you see a faint double image.

#9
Posted 12/05/2010 03:40 AM   
Some ghosting is normal on LCD's. But in WOW I only see it on high contrast zones. Tanaris is particularly bad.
Some ghosting is normal on LCD's. But in WOW I only see it on high contrast zones. Tanaris is particularly bad.
#10
Posted 12/05/2010 04:45 AM   
I've heard that the plasma 3dtv's don't have any issues with ghosting, so that might be a solution.
I would love to hear from a plasma owner. What's your 3d experience been like?
I've heard that the plasma 3dtv's don't have any issues with ghosting, so that might be a solution.

I would love to hear from a plasma owner. What's your 3d experience been like?

#11
Posted 12/05/2010 06:29 AM   
[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1291520447' post='1155952']
Yeah but its not as bad in WoW.

You notice it more on close up objects, such as your own character or your mount.
With most objects you look at on the LCD you see a faint double image.
[/quote]
This sounds like you have your converence set way too high. Try lowering it. A lot.
[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1291520447' post='1155952']

Yeah but its not as bad in WoW.



You notice it more on close up objects, such as your own character or your mount.

With most objects you look at on the LCD you see a faint double image.



This sounds like you have your converence set way too high. Try lowering it. A lot.

#12
Posted 12/05/2010 06:34 AM   
[quote name='Zloth' date='04 December 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1291473637' post='1155681']
Ghosting in DA:O?? That shouldn't be happening very much.

Here, save [url=http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3483/astickinmyeyecopy.jpg]this image[/url] then rename it to be a .jps file. Doubleclick on it to see it in 3D. Is there ghosting in this picture on your Alienware monitor? The only anomoly I get is some oddness in the portraits in the upper left with everything else looking great.

I don't know much about the 3DTV scene but I do remember hearing something about how the HDMI cable protocols aren't designed to handle 1920x1080 pixels in 3D.

(And yeah, I found the 24Hz thing to be stupid, too. My friends tell me that this gives a more movie-like experience because that's the framerate in theaters. I guess there wouldn't be much point in showing two or three frames that are exactly the same anyway, but I don't see how it's an improvement. {shrug})
[/quote]

All the portraits in the top left are rendering correctly except morrigans? Did Bioware change something recently?

Do you see double for the mouse cursor?
[quote name='Zloth' date='04 December 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1291473637' post='1155681']

Ghosting in DA:O?? That shouldn't be happening very much.



Here, save this image then rename it to be a .jps file. Doubleclick on it to see it in 3D. Is there ghosting in this picture on your Alienware monitor? The only anomoly I get is some oddness in the portraits in the upper left with everything else looking great.



I don't know much about the 3DTV scene but I do remember hearing something about how the HDMI cable protocols aren't designed to handle 1920x1080 pixels in 3D.



(And yeah, I found the 24Hz thing to be stupid, too. My friends tell me that this gives a more movie-like experience because that's the framerate in theaters. I guess there wouldn't be much point in showing two or three frames that are exactly the same anyway, but I don't see how it's an improvement. {shrug})





All the portraits in the top left are rendering correctly except morrigans? Did Bioware change something recently?



Do you see double for the mouse cursor?

#13
Posted 12/05/2010 11:43 AM   
[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
Going to list my current experiences with Nvidia, and my expectations, and hopefully get some feedback~

I saw Nvidia 3D Vision technology at CES last year, thought it was amazing, and bought it.
At the time I had a Mitsubishi 3D-Ready 65" DLP.
The picture for it was amazing, using a GTX 280 graphics card ... unfortunately the DLP has a massive overscan, like 20%, and it can not be corrected.
It can use a fake 1080p resolution thats like 1810x1000 or something, but several games don't even support custom resolutions.
On top of that, DLPs tend to look HORRIBLE for PC Font text, like incredibly blurry.[/quote]

I'd like to help you fix this problem if possible since I was considering getting a DLP. Does it stretch too much left & right? Doesn't NVIDIA have an option in advanced that fixes this? I'm just taking a stab in the dark here. Cycle Frustum Adjustment maybe?

Isn't there something called "Overscan Compenstation". Google pulled up a fix for overscan for an 8800gt from a while ago. I wonder if this feature is now built into the drivers and in the nvidia control panel somewhere for your dlp monitor.

[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
So, I bought a Alienware 24" whatevermodel# 120hz LCD.
This looked good with Nvidia 3D Vision, no overscan (of course!) but it has extreme ghosting problems in some games. For example, Everquest 2, you can't look at water or certain buildings because you'll see two of them.
Even in WoW, looking at your flying mount you'll see two heads on it and whatnot.
Some games, do look amazing, like Mafia II or Resident Evil, but a lot of 3D games had too much ghosting.
One game that works EXCEPTIONALLY well is Left 4 Dead (1 and 2, especially 2). I recall my girlfriend almost jumping out of the chair playing that game with the 3D on :D[/quote]

(Water is the same problem in World of warcraft. Some things will just not look right but it's not that big of a deal.)

Now try this to reduce ghosting.

1. Lower the depth all the way down.

2. Now look into the distance of whatever game you are playing. (Looking into the distance means like a far away building or mountain).

3. Now increase convergence until you don't see double of anything near or far.

4. Now begin to increase depth until there is no ghosting.

5. Now re-adjust convergence if need be.

[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
Anyways, this one here is the kicker.
I just bought a 46" LED LCD Sony Bravia during the black friday sales, their top of the line 3D TV.
Well, unfortunately it's not supported by "NVidia 3D Vision", the connection won't even plug into the back of the TV.
So, Nvidia unveils this "3DTV Play/3D Vision" thing ... and I use a HDMI 1.4 high bandwidth monster HDMI cable specifically labled for 3D ...
and I run into a some extreme limitations ...
1080p at 24hz is absolutely unplayable. There is such extreme input lag, you move the mouse or keyboard and the game responds half a second later, I never realized how bad it was, but it was simply not playable.

Something interesting, some 3D Vision games that would never enable 3D before, like Final Fantasy XIV, suddenly worked (and still to this day ONLY work in 3DTV Play) and looks amazing. I don't know why FFXIV is rated poorly in 3D Vision, it looked absolutely fantastic, except for extreme input lag due to 24hz.

Anyways ... 720p is unplayable in 3D mode because of extreme ghosting, and on top of that, menus are just too big.
Even if I can deal with that, 720p on a LCD @ 60hz has extreme ghosting for some reason, like it's not even really looking 3D. [/quote]

I thought NVIDIA 3D Vision was only good with DLP screens OR 120hz pc monitors?

[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
So, what in the hell am I supposed to do here for a good 3D Vision Experience?
I've tried 3D Vision on a DLP, with good looking 3D, but horrible overscan, at 1920x1080 @ 60hz (Almost no ghosting though!!)[/quote]

There has to be a way to fix this overscan. Can you describe it more? I'm going to research it.

[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']
Is there no right answer to a quality 3D experience?
I've been buying Nvidia products since the "GeForce 2" almost every 6 months but I've just about had it trying to get a good 3D experience.
I'm currently using two GTX 480s in SLI and using Monitor 1 as the 24" Alienware LCD, and the Monitor 2 as the 42" LCD 3D HDTV.

We need 3DTV play to work at 1920x1080p @ 60hz like it does on the DLPs, why can't it work on LCDs too? I have a 240hz >.>
[/quote]

240hz is not true 240hz from what I hear.

I thought DLP was the way to go, but you have overscan. That sucks. I wanted to have my 22'inch viewsonic and a DLP eventually but now I"m hesitant about that overscan problem.
[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

Going to list my current experiences with Nvidia, and my expectations, and hopefully get some feedback~



I saw Nvidia 3D Vision technology at CES last year, thought it was amazing, and bought it.

At the time I had a Mitsubishi 3D-Ready 65" DLP.

The picture for it was amazing, using a GTX 280 graphics card ... unfortunately the DLP has a massive overscan, like 20%, and it can not be corrected.

It can use a fake 1080p resolution thats like 1810x1000 or something, but several games don't even support custom resolutions.

On top of that, DLPs tend to look HORRIBLE for PC Font text, like incredibly blurry.



I'd like to help you fix this problem if possible since I was considering getting a DLP. Does it stretch too much left & right? Doesn't NVIDIA have an option in advanced that fixes this? I'm just taking a stab in the dark here. Cycle Frustum Adjustment maybe?



Isn't there something called "Overscan Compenstation". Google pulled up a fix for overscan for an 8800gt from a while ago. I wonder if this feature is now built into the drivers and in the nvidia control panel somewhere for your dlp monitor.



[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

So, I bought a Alienware 24" whatevermodel# 120hz LCD.

This looked good with Nvidia 3D Vision, no overscan (of course!) but it has extreme ghosting problems in some games. For example, Everquest 2, you can't look at water or certain buildings because you'll see two of them.

Even in WoW, looking at your flying mount you'll see two heads on it and whatnot.

Some games, do look amazing, like Mafia II or Resident Evil, but a lot of 3D games had too much ghosting.

One game that works EXCEPTIONALLY well is Left 4 Dead (1 and 2, especially 2). I recall my girlfriend almost jumping out of the chair playing that game with the 3D on :D



(Water is the same problem in World of warcraft. Some things will just not look right but it's not that big of a deal.)



Now try this to reduce ghosting.



1. Lower the depth all the way down.



2. Now look into the distance of whatever game you are playing. (Looking into the distance means like a far away building or mountain).



3. Now increase convergence until you don't see double of anything near or far.



4. Now begin to increase depth until there is no ghosting.



5. Now re-adjust convergence if need be.



[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

Anyways, this one here is the kicker.

I just bought a 46" LED LCD Sony Bravia during the black friday sales, their top of the line 3D TV.

Well, unfortunately it's not supported by "NVidia 3D Vision", the connection won't even plug into the back of the TV.

So, Nvidia unveils this "3DTV Play/3D Vision" thing ... and I use a HDMI 1.4 high bandwidth monster HDMI cable specifically labled for 3D ...

and I run into a some extreme limitations ...

1080p at 24hz is absolutely unplayable. There is such extreme input lag, you move the mouse or keyboard and the game responds half a second later, I never realized how bad it was, but it was simply not playable.



Something interesting, some 3D Vision games that would never enable 3D before, like Final Fantasy XIV, suddenly worked (and still to this day ONLY work in 3DTV Play) and looks amazing. I don't know why FFXIV is rated poorly in 3D Vision, it looked absolutely fantastic, except for extreme input lag due to 24hz.



Anyways ... 720p is unplayable in 3D mode because of extreme ghosting, and on top of that, menus are just too big.

Even if I can deal with that, 720p on a LCD @ 60hz has extreme ghosting for some reason, like it's not even really looking 3D.



I thought NVIDIA 3D Vision was only good with DLP screens OR 120hz pc monitors?



[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

So, what in the hell am I supposed to do here for a good 3D Vision Experience?

I've tried 3D Vision on a DLP, with good looking 3D, but horrible overscan, at 1920x1080 @ 60hz (Almost no ghosting though!!)



There has to be a way to fix this overscan. Can you describe it more? I'm going to research it.



[quote name='defmetal' date='04 December 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1291466045' post='1155647']

Is there no right answer to a quality 3D experience?

I've been buying Nvidia products since the "GeForce 2" almost every 6 months but I've just about had it trying to get a good 3D experience.

I'm currently using two GTX 480s in SLI and using Monitor 1 as the 24" Alienware LCD, and the Monitor 2 as the 42" LCD 3D HDTV.



We need 3DTV play to work at 1920x1080p @ 60hz like it does on the DLPs, why can't it work on LCDs too? I have a 240hz >.>





240hz is not true 240hz from what I hear.



I thought DLP was the way to go, but you have overscan. That sucks. I wanted to have my 22'inch viewsonic and a DLP eventually but now I"m hesitant about that overscan problem.

#14
Posted 12/05/2010 11:50 AM   
I'll try what you suggested, I didn't even know you could modify those settings. Nobody told me there were advanced settings lol.

3D Vision does not work on Plasma or LED/LCD TVs by default, the adapters do not fit in the slots. Only on the DLP TVs.
However, 3DTV Play (Also from Nvidia) does work on them. However, I strongly discourage you from trying to do gaming on it in 3D because it just looks awful. It's either 720p @ 60hz with extreme ghosting, or 1080p @ 24hz.
I tried playing Dragon Age Origins on the 42" TV I mentioned above, and it looked so horrible I had to turn it off.

However it looked absolutely amazing on the 65" TV, It's just that, DLP on-screen text from computers is near unreadable.

To answer your statement yes Nvidia has an overscan correction, that only works with 3D Vision hooked directly up to the back of the TV, it does not work with 3DTV Play. If I use the overscan correction, the 3D does look good, however, because the fonts are no longer in native resolution, it makes small text even harder on the eyes to read. (It's not my personal vision thats the issue, just to point that out, I have LASIK and I have very good eye sight, its just that the fonts are so close together and look blurry on DLPs)


BTW I hope no one thinks im ranting against 3D, I like it and really want it to work well. It's just, been more of a headache then a good experience.
I'll try what you suggested, I didn't even know you could modify those settings. Nobody told me there were advanced settings lol.



3D Vision does not work on Plasma or LED/LCD TVs by default, the adapters do not fit in the slots. Only on the DLP TVs.

However, 3DTV Play (Also from Nvidia) does work on them. However, I strongly discourage you from trying to do gaming on it in 3D because it just looks awful. It's either 720p @ 60hz with extreme ghosting, or 1080p @ 24hz.

I tried playing Dragon Age Origins on the 42" TV I mentioned above, and it looked so horrible I had to turn it off.



However it looked absolutely amazing on the 65" TV, It's just that, DLP on-screen text from computers is near unreadable.



To answer your statement yes Nvidia has an overscan correction, that only works with 3D Vision hooked directly up to the back of the TV, it does not work with 3DTV Play. If I use the overscan correction, the 3D does look good, however, because the fonts are no longer in native resolution, it makes small text even harder on the eyes to read. (It's not my personal vision thats the issue, just to point that out, I have LASIK and I have very good eye sight, its just that the fonts are so close together and look blurry on DLPs)





BTW I hope no one thinks im ranting against 3D, I like it and really want it to work well. It's just, been more of a headache then a good experience.

#15
Posted 12/06/2010 01:15 AM   
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