Tom Clancy's The Division
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So now that this game is coming out on the PC, i figure i'd start a thread about it and encourage people to start asking for 3D support in their threads keeping in mind negative 3D comments may be great opportunity to dispel the idea that game 3D = movie 3D and other ridiculous ideas like 3D being a gimmick (in games). Division Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njfj6KwEAfg&hd=1&html5=1 SnowDrop engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXeH9OqygzI&hd=1&html5=1
So now that this game is coming out on the PC, i figure i'd start a thread about it and encourage people to start asking for 3D support in their threads keeping in mind negative 3D comments may be great opportunity to dispel the idea that game 3D = movie 3D and other ridiculous ideas like 3D being a gimmick (in games).


Division Trailer
;hd=1&html5=1

SnowDrop engine
;hd=1&html5=1

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#1
Posted 12/13/2013 08:14 AM   
the petition for PC had 100K+ backers if we can get 50K we have a chance, otherwise I felt like we will be straight up ignored... This was suppose to be a console game and there is no 3d on the next-gen so I bet they wont even care. I would love to be proven wrong though as this looks amazing I just feel that all we can do is to start a topic and maybe have 100 users supporting the idea at best (+another 100 saying 3d is bad because you have to wear glasses).
the petition for PC had 100K+ backers if we can get 50K we have a chance, otherwise I felt like we will be straight up ignored... This was suppose to be a console game and there is no 3d on the next-gen so I bet they wont even care. I would love to be proven wrong though as this looks amazing I just feel that all we can do is to start a topic and maybe have 100 users supporting the idea at best (+another 100 saying 3d is bad because you have to wear glasses).

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#2
Posted 12/13/2013 07:03 PM   
[quote="tehace"]the petition for PC had 100K+ backers if we can get 50K we have a chance, otherwise I felt like we will be straight up ignored... This was suppose to be a console game and there is no 3d on the next-gen so I bet they wont even care. I would love to be proven wrong though as this looks amazing I just feel that all we can do is to start a topic and maybe have 100 users supporting the idea at best (+another 100 saying 3d is bad because you have to wear glasses). [/quote] This is partly why I find the current situation ironic/sad. Lots of games with no support and people are complaining/blaming. People say would "do whatever" for support. Yet, I look for people requesting support for "game" on developer site and its like either few or no post all together [only exception was bioshock infinite]. There have been more people that said either on a list or in wishful thinking that they wish Helix would mod in support Watch Dogs [A game that isn't even close] then people who requested support to developer that is sponsored by Nvidia no less. Its not really the comparison of contribution/effort that gets me. Its the lack of it entirely. More people will fill a post with a complaint here about no support then would fill a post trying to get support.
tehace said:the petition for PC had 100K+ backers if we can get 50K we have a chance, otherwise I felt like we will be straight up ignored... This was suppose to be a console game and there is no 3d on the next-gen so I bet they wont even care. I would love to be proven wrong though as this looks amazing I just feel that all we can do is to start a topic and maybe have 100 users supporting the idea at best (+another 100 saying 3d is bad because you have to wear glasses).

This is partly why I find the current situation ironic/sad. Lots of games with no support and people are complaining/blaming. People say would "do whatever" for support. Yet, I look for people requesting support for "game" on developer site and its like either few or no post all together [only exception was bioshock infinite]. There have been more people that said either on a list or in wishful thinking that they wish Helix would mod in support Watch Dogs [A game that isn't even close] then people who requested support to developer that is sponsored by Nvidia no less.

Its not really the comparison of contribution/effort that gets me. Its the lack of it entirely. More people will fill a post with a complaint here about no support then would fill a post trying to get support.

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#3
Posted 12/13/2013 08:24 PM   
/\/\ I don't post, because I know it's futile. These AAAA games are all about 10 million plus sales. They don't give two rips about us. And you know the meatheads are just going to come out and say how much glasses suck anyways. It's a pointless waste of time. If it was an indie developer that engaged with the community, sure. I'll participate with that. But this is pointless. Call it defeatist if you will, but that's my approach. And I don't think I'm wrong. These uber guys are all about what brings in the most monitization. And 3D support won't bring jack. If Nvidia is unwilling to sweeten the jackpot for developers, we're screwed and need to hope they just don't break things.
/\/\

I don't post, because I know it's futile. These AAAA games are all about 10 million plus sales. They don't give two rips about us. And you know the meatheads are just going to come out and say how much glasses suck anyways. It's a pointless waste of time. If it was an indie developer that engaged with the community, sure. I'll participate with that. But this is pointless. Call it defeatist if you will, but that's my approach. And I don't think I'm wrong. These uber guys are all about what brings in the most monitization. And 3D support won't bring jack. If Nvidia is unwilling to sweeten the jackpot for developers, we're screwed and need to hope they just don't break things.

#4
Posted 12/13/2013 08:37 PM   
thats why I think they should stop sponsoring 3d vision support out of the box and spend that money on developing a tool for the community to fix games themselves. Sorry for the off-topic but it just seems like a logic conclusion as a solution to all our current problems. I mean how cool would it be if you can launch a game and see this http://thc333.com/3dfix.jpg if you want to elaborate https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/658782/3d-vision/josh-nvidia/ lets keep this one on topic.
thats why I think they should stop sponsoring 3d vision support out of the box and spend that money on developing a tool for the community to fix games themselves. Sorry for the off-topic but it just seems like a logic conclusion as a solution to all our current problems.

I mean how cool would it be if you can launch a game and see this http://thc333.com/3dfix.jpg if you want to elaborate https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/658782/3d-vision/josh-nvidia/ lets keep this one on topic.

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#5
Posted 12/13/2013 08:45 PM   
Its often times a game looks good/mediocre in 3D out of box and requesting support is what helps brings the final results. It is defeatist because I know of quite a few times where this happened. Think about all the times where games got updated with improvements. If a developer is sponsored by NVIDIA they are paid to add features. If they are given a figure for 3d vision support and they don't think development costs will offset gain from that figure/consumer purchases based on support they will not do it. If enough people request support they may consider the opposite. Here is a case which everyone should know. Deus Ex Hitman Revolution [AMD sponsored] added AMDHD3D support [sponsored]. Game came out and we requested support and it got patched in.->This eventually led to sleeping dogs-> This eventually led to tomb raider in which we even requested they fix crosshair, which they did.
Its often times a game looks good/mediocre in 3D out of box and requesting support is what helps brings the final results. It is defeatist because I know of quite a few times where this happened. Think about all the times where games got updated with improvements.

If a developer is sponsored by NVIDIA they are paid to add features. If they are given a figure for 3d vision support and they don't think development costs will offset gain from that figure/consumer purchases based on support they will not do it. If enough people request support they may consider the opposite.

Here is a case which everyone should know.
Deus Ex Hitman Revolution [AMD sponsored] added AMDHD3D support [sponsored]. Game came out and we requested support and it got patched in.->This eventually led to sleeping dogs-> This eventually led to tomb raider in which we even requested they fix crosshair, which they did.

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#6
Posted 12/13/2013 08:40 PM   
[quote="eqzitara"]Its often times a game looks good/mediocre in 3D out of box and requesting support is what helps brings the final results. It is defeatist because I know of quite a few times where this happened. Think about all the times where games got updated with improvements. If a developer is sponsored by NVIDIA they are paid to add features. If they are given a figure for 3d vision support and they don't think development costs will offset gain from that figure/consumer purchases based on support they will not do it. If enough people request support they may consider the opposite.[/quote] Yeah. I hear that. Tomb Raider being a classic example. But when I hear The Division, and look at Ubi's history, I just can't be moved to act. I've seen how that one ends too many times. Nvidia sponsorship seems to mean nothing with them. Probably because Nvidia could care less about it at this point. I doubt they're pushing UBI. Recent results are speaking pretty loudly. With UBI we just have to pray for happy accidents.
eqzitara said:Its often times a game looks good/mediocre in 3D out of box and requesting support is what helps brings the final results. It is defeatist because I know of quite a few times where this happened. Think about all the times where games got updated with improvements.

If a developer is sponsored by NVIDIA they are paid to add features. If they are given a figure for 3d vision support and they don't think development costs will offset gain from that figure/consumer purchases based on support they will not do it. If enough people request support they may consider the opposite.


Yeah. I hear that. Tomb Raider being a classic example. But when I hear The Division, and look at Ubi's history, I just can't be moved to act. I've seen how that one ends too many times. Nvidia sponsorship seems to mean nothing with them. Probably because Nvidia could care less about it at this point. I doubt they're pushing UBI. Recent results are speaking pretty loudly.

With UBI we just have to pray for happy accidents.

#7
Posted 12/13/2013 08:55 PM   
the thing is that we dont have any significant numbers on our side. I think many people just dont care, llike how many people do we have on this forum? 200? 100? whatever the number is its below 1K and thats insignificant to even start a petition... but that doesnt mean that they sold 500 3dvision kits? Many people just dont care nowadyas they bought something it doesnt work as they imagined oh well I guess 3d is really a gimmick...
the thing is that we dont have any significant numbers on our side. I think many people just dont care, llike how many people do we have on this forum? 200? 100? whatever the number is its below 1K and thats insignificant to even start a petition... but that doesnt mean that they sold 500 3dvision kits? Many people just dont care nowadyas they bought something it doesnt work as they imagined oh well I guess 3d is really a gimmick...

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#8
Posted 12/13/2013 08:56 PM   
[quote="tehace"]the thing is that we dont have any significant numbers on our side. I think many people just dont care, llike how many people do we have on this forum? 200? 100? whatever the number is its below 1K and thats insignificant to even start a petition... but that doesnt mean that they sold 500 3dvision kits? Many people just dont care nowadyas they bought something it doesnt work as they imagined oh well I guess 3d is really a gimmick... [/quote] I think the real moral of the story is you reap what you sow. If you don't care enough to try why should they. More people requested support when compatibility was higher and we had probably half as many users [pre-helixmod]. And yes, more people hated 3D users back then. It was only way pretty much the only way. Its just astounding the amount of people who been complaining and never done anything about it.
tehace said:the thing is that we dont have any significant numbers on our side. I think many people just dont care, llike how many people do we have on this forum? 200? 100? whatever the number is its below 1K and thats insignificant to even start a petition... but that doesnt mean that they sold 500 3dvision kits? Many people just dont care nowadyas they bought something it doesnt work as they imagined oh well I guess 3d is really a gimmick...


I think the real moral of the story is you reap what you sow. If you don't care enough to try why should they.

More people requested support when compatibility was higher and we had probably half as many users [pre-helixmod]. And yes, more people hated 3D users back then. It was only way pretty much the only way.
Its just astounding the amount of people who been complaining and never done anything about it.

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#9
Posted 12/13/2013 09:24 PM   
I think that's a little harsh though. I've posted quite a few times asking/praising developers about 3D. But UBI is all about consoles. That's their first and only priority. PC versions are going to be dirty ports. Even if every active member posted there, it'd be maybe 100 supporters. That's not going to make a difference. A smaller developer who actively engages with the audience on their Steam page? Sure. But UBI doesn't care. Money talks. And NVidia is the only one with sway on that. If they're gonna sponsor a game and can't even care enough to push 3D Vision, we're doomed on that. I'm sure this is frustrating for some, because it sounds like defeatism. But it's really not. I've never begged for anyone to do a fix (though I try and express gratitude when they fix a game I love). And I've whispered my love of 3D into the ears of developers quite a few times. I just don't think people should be upset that our 100 man army doesn't march in rhythm and protest to the UBI and EAs of the world. Cause they could care less about us. They barely care about the entire PC segment, let alone our tiny niche.
I think that's a little harsh though. I've posted quite a few times asking/praising developers about 3D. But UBI is all about consoles. That's their first and only priority. PC versions are going to be dirty ports. Even if every active member posted there, it'd be maybe 100 supporters. That's not going to make a difference. A smaller developer who actively engages with the audience on their Steam page? Sure. But UBI doesn't care. Money talks. And NVidia is the only one with sway on that. If they're gonna sponsor a game and can't even care enough to push 3D Vision, we're doomed on that.

I'm sure this is frustrating for some, because it sounds like defeatism. But it's really not. I've never begged for anyone to do a fix (though I try and express gratitude when they fix a game I love). And I've whispered my love of 3D into the ears of developers quite a few times. I just don't think people should be upset that our 100 man army doesn't march in rhythm and protest to the UBI and EAs of the world. Cause they could care less about us. They barely care about the entire PC segment, let alone our tiny niche.

#10
Posted 12/13/2013 10:00 PM   
official response straight from battlefield 4 forum There is currently no plans to add support for Stereo 3D rendering in Battlefield 4, it took a lot of work & time to do in BF3 for very few gamers that actively use it so there are other things that are higher priority for the dev team. the truth is that we're the majority noone cares about ;/ and I do post whenever I can if somebody link a support thread on the dev forum even if I dont care for the game, its better do to something than nothing but still I got the feeling that in 99% of the times its completely pointless and rather might hurt you back when you read all those silly people who think they know everything about 3d and why it sucks but never tried it (or seen it in the electronic mall like mods from irrational games forum).
official response straight from battlefield 4 forum

There is currently no plans to add support for Stereo 3D rendering in Battlefield 4, it took a lot of work & time to do in BF3 for very few gamers that actively use it so there are other things that are higher priority for the dev team.

the truth is that we're the majority noone cares about ;/ and I do post whenever I can if somebody link a support thread on the dev forum even if I dont care for the game, its better do to something than nothing but still I got the feeling that in 99% of the times its completely pointless and rather might hurt you back when you read all those silly people who think they know everything about 3d and why it sucks but never tried it (or seen it in the electronic mall like mods from irrational games forum).

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#11
Posted 12/13/2013 10:33 PM   
[quote="tehace"] ...I got the feeling that in 99% of the times its completely pointless and rather might hurt you back when you read all those silly people who think they know everything about 3d and why it sucks but never tried it . [/quote] Yep, that's why I said to a buddy hardcore raver: It's like mushrOOms or mescaline, If you haven't tried it, you can't imagine it... 8)
tehace said:
...I got the feeling that in 99% of the times its completely pointless and rather might hurt you back when you read all those silly people who think they know everything about 3d and why it sucks but never tried it .


Yep, that's why I said to a buddy hardcore raver: It's like mushrOOms or mescaline, If you haven't tried it, you can't imagine it... 8)

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#12
Posted 12/14/2013 12:17 AM   
It's not only large majorities who can instill change. It can also be very vocal minorities. You see it all the time with lobby groups and consumer groups. Though I agree that us being able to sway ubisoft seems like David and Goliath. But I also think that there's no point giving up all effort. Especially as general PC support has been getting better and better with aaa games in the past couple of years. And with the Occulus Rift, surely 3d awareness is on the way up too. I'd love for this game to be 3d. It looks amazing in the video. The first game I've seen that looks as good as Crysis 3. Probably even better, because of all the dynamic physics and particle stuff. It's a shame it's ubisoft though. I normally love their games, but they ruined far cry 3 by making it like assassin's creed. It became just an icon hunting game but without the fun parkour. This and watch dogs might end up using the same template also.
It's not only large majorities who can instill change. It can also be very vocal minorities. You see it all the time with lobby groups and consumer groups.

Though I agree that us being able to sway ubisoft seems like David and Goliath. But I also think that there's no point giving up all effort. Especially as general PC support has been getting better and better with aaa games in the past couple of years. And with the Occulus Rift, surely 3d awareness is on the way up too.

I'd love for this game to be 3d. It looks amazing in the video. The first game I've seen that looks as good as Crysis 3. Probably even better, because of all the dynamic physics and particle stuff.

It's a shame it's ubisoft though. I normally love their games, but they ruined far cry 3 by making it like assassin's creed. It became just an icon hunting game but without the fun parkour. This and watch dogs might end up using the same template also.

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#13
Posted 12/14/2013 01:14 AM   
It has occurred to me recently that one of the reasons i was draw to 3D to begin with is that when i was young i took a trip to disneyland and saw Captain Eo, the 3D ride and it was the most amazing thing i saw on that trip. The 3D had a ton of depth and it looked like you were there with them. Then i experienced 3D again while experimenting with Lockon i think, which was again cool and i think also served to draw me into 3D. Then there were reviews of the Z800 that made me salivate. I say that because its one more reason i think 3D has an uphill battle, even though i think it will be the standard way of viewing in the future. The Rift will open peoples eyes to realistic 3D, then they will hear that 3D vision on a large display can be just as good for games without head tracking, if not better in some instances, like if you need to see your keyboard, or for unsupported games, or to see your Tv or friends next to you, etc. Glasses free 3D seems to be coming as well: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1495465/ultra-d-glasses-free-3d-update Back to my point. Because many people have not tried 3D outside of a dim, low depth movie, I think it is so important to describe exactly what they are missing because they have no frame of reference as to what 3D can really be. That is why i try to use very descriptive terminology when refuting people's opinions, to carve out in detail what 3D is like so they can more easily understand it, because that is really all it is, a lack of understanding and additional information is all thats really needed. So for example, responding to "3D sucks!", with something like, "No, 3D is awesome douche nozzle, i love it"! just doesn't provide enough info to help them change their minds. One other thing i do is occasionally type into global chat in a game something like, "Holy shit, I can't get over how f'ing amazing this looks in 3D" I don't feel a bit bad about it, because its completely true, i am still often in amazement at how real 3D can make a game look and usually chat it when it occurs to me.
It has occurred to me recently that one of the reasons i was draw to 3D to begin with is that when i was young i took a trip to disneyland and saw Captain Eo, the 3D ride and it was the most amazing thing i saw on that trip. The 3D had a ton of depth and it looked like you were there with them. Then i experienced 3D again while experimenting with Lockon i think, which was again cool and i think also served to draw me into 3D. Then there were reviews of the Z800 that made me salivate.

I say that because its one more reason i think 3D has an uphill battle, even though i think it will be the standard way of viewing in the future. The Rift will open peoples eyes to realistic 3D, then they will hear that 3D vision on a large display can be just as good for games without head tracking, if not better in some instances, like if you need to see your keyboard, or for unsupported games, or to see your Tv or friends next to you, etc. Glasses free 3D seems to be coming as well: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1495465/ultra-d-glasses-free-3d-update

Back to my point. Because many people have not tried 3D outside of a dim, low depth movie, I think it is so important to describe exactly what they are missing because they have no frame of reference as to what 3D can really be. That is why i try to use very descriptive terminology when refuting people's opinions, to carve out in detail what 3D is like so they can more easily understand it, because that is really all it is, a lack of understanding and additional information is all thats really needed. So for example, responding to "3D sucks!", with something like, "No, 3D is awesome douche nozzle, i love it"! just doesn't provide enough info to help them change their minds.

One other thing i do is occasionally type into global chat in a game something like, "Holy shit, I can't get over how f'ing amazing this looks in 3D" I don't feel a bit bad about it, because its completely true, i am still often in amazement at how real 3D can make a game look and usually chat it when it occurs to me.

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#14
Posted 12/14/2013 01:21 AM   
I keep getting sprayed with shit from assholes when I suggest 3D support in forums, it's not worth the abuse I cop just be told maybe and then have it never happen.
I keep getting sprayed with shit from assholes when I suggest 3D support in forums, it's not worth the abuse I cop just be told maybe and then have it never happen.

#15
Posted 12/14/2013 03:48 AM   
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