HDMI1.4 checkerboard for all! 3D Vision software fix here!
8 / 20
[quote name='francomg' date='15 February 2011 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1297816760' post='1194179']
Roller, please explain this to me, I've already asked this to you and got no answer. What do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with 2010 Samsung 3D Ready TV's??? I thought the only way to play games with my Samsung PN63C8000 using Nvidia drivers was through 3DTV Play, 1920x1080 24hz or 1280x720 60hz frame packing. You make it sound like you can use the 3D Vision glasses and IR receiver with the sammy 3D ready TV, is that correct?? It doesn't make sense since those HDMI 1.4 TV's don't have a 3D sync out like the HDMI 1.3 2008 HDTV Samsung 3D Plasmas or DLP Mitsubishi. So what do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with HDMI 1.4 TV's, don't you mean 3DTV Play???? [/quote]
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
[quote]I thought the only way to play games in 3D with those 2010 3D Ready Samsubg TV's is using their own glasses and built in receiver. If Andrew and Nvidia crew add checkerboard to 3DTV Play, than we'll be able to use frame packing 1080p24hz, 720p60hz and also 1080p60hz checkerboard, but using Samsung glasses, not 3D Vision, so this is 3DTV Play, not 3D Vision. I always thought you could only use the 3D Vision glasses and it's IR receiver with 120hz display that have DVI-DL or DLP HDTV's that have a 3D sync output that is connected through the 3D Vision IR receiver's 3D sync input, isn't that right? I kindly ask you to please explain this to me.
[/quote]
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
[quote name='francomg' date='15 February 2011 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1297816760' post='1194179']
Roller, please explain this to me, I've already asked this to you and got no answer. What do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with 2010 Samsung 3D Ready TV's??? I thought the only way to play games with my Samsung PN63C8000 using Nvidia drivers was through 3DTV Play, 1920x1080 24hz or 1280x720 60hz frame packing. You make it sound like you can use the 3D Vision glasses and IR receiver with the sammy 3D ready TV, is that correct?? It doesn't make sense since those HDMI 1.4 TV's don't have a 3D sync out like the HDMI 1.3 2008 HDTV Samsung 3D Plasmas or DLP Mitsubishi. So what do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with HDMI 1.4 TV's, don't you mean 3DTV Play????
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
I thought the only way to play games in 3D with those 2010 3D Ready Samsubg TV's is using their own glasses and built in receiver. If Andrew and Nvidia crew add checkerboard to 3DTV Play, than we'll be able to use frame packing 1080p24hz, 720p60hz and also 1080p60hz checkerboard, but using Samsung glasses, not 3D Vision, so this is 3DTV Play, not 3D Vision. I always thought you could only use the 3D Vision glasses and it's IR receiver with 120hz display that have DVI-DL or DLP HDTV's that have a 3D sync output that is connected through the 3D Vision IR receiver's 3D sync input, isn't that right? I kindly ask you to please explain this to me.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
[quote name='francomg' date='16 February 2011 - 06:10 AM' timestamp='1297861839' post='1194403']
I was about to try out Roller mod, but he said you need a piece of hardware hack to get rid of red message, so did you use this hardware hack or not? If you tell me that I can only change the .inf file that Roller created and then I can play games in my TV using Checkerboard 1080p60hz Page Flipping 1080p30hz without having to use a hardware hack to avoid the red message then I will definatelly try this out.
Please let me know that, thank your for clearing out things.
[/quote]
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
[quote name='francomg' date='16 February 2011 - 06:10 AM' timestamp='1297861839' post='1194403']
I was about to try out Roller mod, but he said you need a piece of hardware hack to get rid of red message, so did you use this hardware hack or not? If you tell me that I can only change the .inf file that Roller created and then I can play games in my TV using Checkerboard 1080p60hz Page Flipping 1080p30hz without having to use a hardware hack to avoid the red message then I will definatelly try this out.
Please let me know that, thank your for clearing out things.
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1297873714' post='1194466']
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
[/quote]
A. I don't listen to tech support, and B. Have you ever heard the expression that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar? These same folks that are "deceiving" and "misinforming" are also the ones that sat here, asked questions about the checkerboard issues and decided to implement a fix. Give them a break. I'll be the first to say that they haven't been totally up front with all the issues (see top/bottom stereo extinction issues) but you can make your point without being so ad hominem.
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1297873714' post='1194466']
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
A. I don't listen to tech support, and B. Have you ever heard the expression that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar? These same folks that are "deceiving" and "misinforming" are also the ones that sat here, asked questions about the checkerboard issues and decided to implement a fix. Give them a break. I'll be the first to say that they haven't been totally up front with all the issues (see top/bottom stereo extinction issues) but you can make your point without being so ad hominem.
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1297873714' post='1194466']
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
[/quote]
Hi
I want to comment on this post since you are making some statements which are not true and you do not understand our products
3D Vision is our PC glasses solution designed for 3D Vision monitors, 3D Vision projectors, and DLP TVs. Our system requirements page specifically lists the models we support. Our 3D Vision glasses were never designed, tested, or planned to work with a 2010 Samsung Plasma LED HDMI 1.4 TV. We never planned it, we never tried it, and we never put in messaging on our website saying it would work. We did have a generic DLP mode for older Samsung DLPs which we had in there as an attempt to support it, but it was not tested as well as you should.
3DTV Play software is designed to allow our applications and games work over HDMI 1.4 for 3D TVs. You can use your Samsung plasma TV with 3DTV Play. The fact was that 3DTV Play was not launched when you purchased your TV, so our support team was correct in saying that you could not use this TV with 3D Vision glasses - its true, it doesnt work. We also have a statement on our website which says "NOTE:When using 3DTV Playâ„¢ software to connect to a 3D TV, 3D Vision active shutter glasses are not used. Instead the 3D TV manufacturer's 3D glasses are used"
I'm struggling to really follow this thread.
In fact, I am actually thinking about hosting a global conference call where you guys can call in and explain this to me live with engineers on the phone. we could host it so you guys are right next to your TVs.
What do you think? Would you guys be willing to do that?
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1297873714' post='1194466']
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
Hi
I want to comment on this post since you are making some statements which are not true and you do not understand our products
3D Vision is our PC glasses solution designed for 3D Vision monitors, 3D Vision projectors, and DLP TVs. Our system requirements page specifically lists the models we support. Our 3D Vision glasses were never designed, tested, or planned to work with a 2010 Samsung Plasma LED HDMI 1.4 TV. We never planned it, we never tried it, and we never put in messaging on our website saying it would work. We did have a generic DLP mode for older Samsung DLPs which we had in there as an attempt to support it, but it was not tested as well as you should.
3DTV Play software is designed to allow our applications and games work over HDMI 1.4 for 3D TVs. You can use your Samsung plasma TV with 3DTV Play. The fact was that 3DTV Play was not launched when you purchased your TV, so our support team was correct in saying that you could not use this TV with 3D Vision glasses - its true, it doesnt work. We also have a statement on our website which says "NOTE:When using 3DTV Playâ„¢ software to connect to a 3D TV, 3D Vision active shutter glasses are not used. Instead the 3D TV manufacturer's 3D glasses are used"
I'm struggling to really follow this thread.
In fact, I am actually thinking about hosting a global conference call where you guys can call in and explain this to me live with engineers on the phone. we could host it so you guys are right next to your TVs.
What do you think? Would you guys be willing to do that?
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
In our pre R260 drivers, we only had support for HDMI 1.3. So when we scanned a TV and looked at what modes it was capable of, we saw the HDMI 1.3 checkerboard 3D mode.
When we moved to R260 and beyond, we started implementing HDMI 1.4 support. Our driver would look for the HDMI 1.4 3D flag and when it found those modes, it immediately treated the TV as an HDMI 1.4 TV. That meant the previous HDMI 1.3 modes that you did have were no longer available to you.
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
In our pre R260 drivers, we only had support for HDMI 1.3. So when we scanned a TV and looked at what modes it was capable of, we saw the HDMI 1.3 checkerboard 3D mode.
When we moved to R260 and beyond, we started implementing HDMI 1.4 support. Our driver would look for the HDMI 1.4 3D flag and when it found those modes, it immediately treated the TV as an HDMI 1.4 TV. That meant the previous HDMI 1.3 modes that you did have were no longer available to you.
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
Andrew, I have great respect for you and for taking time to read this long thread and listen to your customers. We don't get this atttention from every company or software developer, so I must say: Thank you for listening to us and trying to help. This is more than I could ever ask. You're here reading this thread and paying attenton to it, this is priceless.
That's why I like this forum and I intend to have Nvidia over any other competitive solution.
I know you guys are trying to improve your product, and the best way is to listen to your customers, cause we find the bugs and problems and here is the place to discuss them.
Andrew, I have great respect for you and for taking time to read this long thread and listen to your customers. We don't get this atttention from every company or software developer, so I must say: Thank you for listening to us and trying to help. This is more than I could ever ask. You're here reading this thread and paying attenton to it, this is priceless.
That's why I like this forum and I intend to have Nvidia over any other competitive solution.
I know you guys are trying to improve your product, and the best way is to listen to your customers, cause we find the bugs and problems and here is the place to discuss them.
Cheers Nvidia.........
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1297874369' post='1194474']
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
[/quote]
hehehe, Roller I don't play games in 2D my friend, it's been a long time, about 18 months since I bought my 3D Vision kit. Playing games in 3D in the big screen is new to me, but not 3D Vision which I bought in 2009 september and have been using it since. I play games in my Alienware 23" with 3D Vision all the time, no 2D anymore for me. Most games I play in 3D with 3D Vision, because I like 1920x1080 120hz, and most games I play using keyboard and mouse, which is not very suitable for TV gameplay, only joystick.
I'm glad to hear you don't get the red message while using page flipping 1920x1080 30hz mode, I guess I'm going to try that. In terms of eye candy quality is there any difference between Page Flipping 1920x1080 30hz and Frame Packing 1920x1080 24hz, besides hertz???? Is it full resolution per eye like frame packing mode provided by 3DTV Play?? I know Checkerboard isn't, it's only half resolution per eye, so it doesn't offer the same quality as frame packing, but it's 60hz and its better than 720p frame packing due to scaling which makes games grotesque in 720p using a native 1080p TV.
Anyway, if this page flipping is good stuff, and offers the same quality as 3DTV PLay frame packing, I don't know why Nvidia hasn't used it for 3DTV Play, since 30hz = 30fps is better than 24hz = 24fps??? Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1297874369' post='1194474']
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
hehehe, Roller I don't play games in 2D my friend, it's been a long time, about 18 months since I bought my 3D Vision kit. Playing games in 3D in the big screen is new to me, but not 3D Vision which I bought in 2009 september and have been using it since. I play games in my Alienware 23" with 3D Vision all the time, no 2D anymore for me. Most games I play in 3D with 3D Vision, because I like 1920x1080 120hz, and most games I play using keyboard and mouse, which is not very suitable for TV gameplay, only joystick.
I'm glad to hear you don't get the red message while using page flipping 1920x1080 30hz mode, I guess I'm going to try that. In terms of eye candy quality is there any difference between Page Flipping 1920x1080 30hz and Frame Packing 1920x1080 24hz, besides hertz???? Is it full resolution per eye like frame packing mode provided by 3DTV Play?? I know Checkerboard isn't, it's only half resolution per eye, so it doesn't offer the same quality as frame packing, but it's 60hz and its better than 720p frame packing due to scaling which makes games grotesque in 720p using a native 1080p TV.
Anyway, if this page flipping is good stuff, and offers the same quality as 3DTV PLay frame packing, I don't know why Nvidia hasn't used it for 3DTV Play, since 30hz = 30fps is better than 24hz = 24fps??? Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote]3D Vision is our PC glasses solution designed for 3D Vision monitors, 3D Vision projectors, and DLP TVs. Our system requirements page specifically lists the models we support. Our 3D Vision glasses were never designed, tested, or planned to work with a 2010 Samsung Plasma LED HDMI 1.4 TV. We never planned it, we never tried it, and we never put in messaging on our website saying it would work. We did have a generic DLP mode for older Samsung DLPs which we had in there as an attempt to support it, but it was not tested as well as you should.[/quote]
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flipping (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz frame packing (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz frame packing (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
3D Vision is our PC glasses solution designed for 3D Vision monitors, 3D Vision projectors, and DLP TVs. Our system requirements page specifically lists the models we support. Our 3D Vision glasses were never designed, tested, or planned to work with a 2010 Samsung Plasma LED HDMI 1.4 TV. We never planned it, we never tried it, and we never put in messaging on our website saying it would work. We did have a generic DLP mode for older Samsung DLPs which we had in there as an attempt to support it, but it was not tested as well as you should.
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flipping (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz frame packing (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz frame packing (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
[quote name='francomg' date='16 February 2011 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1297888374' post='1194583']
Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
[/quote]
page flip is 1920x1080/30 so you will see some improvement vs 1920x1080/24. perhaps some one can explain the technical difference between page flip and framepack, they look the same to me. Better still is checkerboard. Technically, it's a downgrade from 1920x1080 framepack but I see virtually no difference on my Samsung plasma between 1080P FP and 1080P CB. I also used CB on a Mits DLP, and I could see a significant 'screen door' effect. My conclusion is that CB is a visible compromise on DLP, but not on plasma. Even so, CB isn't nearly as bad as upscaled 720P on a DLP.
[quote name='francomg' date='16 February 2011 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1297888374' post='1194583']
Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
page flip is 1920x1080/30 so you will see some improvement vs 1920x1080/24. perhaps some one can explain the technical difference between page flip and framepack, they look the same to me. Better still is checkerboard. Technically, it's a downgrade from 1920x1080 framepack but I see virtually no difference on my Samsung plasma between 1080P FP and 1080P CB. I also used CB on a Mits DLP, and I could see a significant 'screen door' effect. My conclusion is that CB is a visible compromise on DLP, but not on plasma. Even so, CB isn't nearly as bad as upscaled 720P on a DLP.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='16 February 2011 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1297882732' post='1194533']
All
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
...............
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
[/quote]
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='16 February 2011 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1297882732' post='1194533']
All
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
...............
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1297899480' post='1194722']
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
[/quote]
Unfortunately I dont there will be a "quick fix", but I will see whats possible.
[quote name='roller11' date='16 February 2011 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1297899480' post='1194722']
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
Unfortunately I dont there will be a "quick fix", but I will see whats possible.
[quote name='Nobsi' date='16 February 2011 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1297894730' post='1194653']
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flicking (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz page flipping (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz page flipping (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
[/quote]
[quote name='Nobsi' date='16 February 2011 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1297894730' post='1194653']
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flicking (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz page flipping (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz page flipping (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
3 and 4 you mean Frame Packing, right?
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='roller11' date='17 February 2011 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1297969653' post='1195118']
Nobsi,
If you know, what's the difference between Samsung's 'page flipping' and mandatory frame packing? Both technically and visually?
[/quote]
Page flipping is the classic 3D mode used by CRTs. Full left and right view are transmitted in alternate order (L,R,L,R...) from the graphics card to the display. Since classic CRTs had no advanced image processing and showed the frames as received, a frequency of at leat 100Hz was required to prevent flickering caused by the shutter glasses, which halfes the frequency per eye. With the advanced digital image processing of actual HDTVs, the frame rate limitation is no longer valid, since the TV can store frames and repeat them to increase visual frame rate and prevent flickering.
Due to this, the Samsung can receive a 1920x1080 page flipping signal @ 60Hz, which gives 30 FPS per eye, and show it without flickering. Most probably it shows every frame twice (L,L,R,R,L,L,R,R...).
With frame packing on the other side every frame contains the left and rigth view combined to a super frame (either side-by-side or up-down). The graphic cards packs two views (L&R) in a single frame, thus frame packing. Because of this, 60Hz frame packing transmitts really 60 left and right views per second from the graphic card to the display. The display than stores and unpacks this frames and shows both views in alternate order for left and right eye. But current HDTV circuity can not handle 1080p@60Hz frame packing format, only 720p@60Hz.
To sum it up:
1080p@60Hz page flipping = 30 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@24Hz frame packing = 24 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
720p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1280x720 resolution
[quote name='roller11' date='17 February 2011 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1297969653' post='1195118']
Nobsi,
If you know, what's the difference between Samsung's 'page flipping' and mandatory frame packing? Both technically and visually?
Page flipping is the classic 3D mode used by CRTs. Full left and right view are transmitted in alternate order (L,R,L,R...) from the graphics card to the display. Since classic CRTs had no advanced image processing and showed the frames as received, a frequency of at leat 100Hz was required to prevent flickering caused by the shutter glasses, which halfes the frequency per eye. With the advanced digital image processing of actual HDTVs, the frame rate limitation is no longer valid, since the TV can store frames and repeat them to increase visual frame rate and prevent flickering.
Due to this, the Samsung can receive a 1920x1080 page flipping signal @ 60Hz, which gives 30 FPS per eye, and show it without flickering. Most probably it shows every frame twice (L,L,R,R,L,L,R,R...).
With frame packing on the other side every frame contains the left and rigth view combined to a super frame (either side-by-side or up-down). The graphic cards packs two views (L&R) in a single frame, thus frame packing. Because of this, 60Hz frame packing transmitts really 60 left and right views per second from the graphic card to the display. The display than stores and unpacks this frames and shows both views in alternate order for left and right eye. But current HDTV circuity can not handle 1080p@60Hz frame packing format, only 720p@60Hz.
To sum it up:
1080p@60Hz page flipping = 30 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@24Hz frame packing = 24 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
720p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1280x720 resolution
Roller, please explain this to me, I've already asked this to you and got no answer. What do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with 2010 Samsung 3D Ready TV's??? I thought the only way to play games with my Samsung PN63C8000 using Nvidia drivers was through 3DTV Play, 1920x1080 24hz or 1280x720 60hz frame packing. You make it sound like you can use the 3D Vision glasses and IR receiver with the sammy 3D ready TV, is that correct?? It doesn't make sense since those HDMI 1.4 TV's don't have a 3D sync out like the HDMI 1.3 2008 HDTV Samsung 3D Plasmas or DLP Mitsubishi. So what do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with HDMI 1.4 TV's, don't you mean 3DTV Play???? [/quote]
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
[quote]I thought the only way to play games in 3D with those 2010 3D Ready Samsubg TV's is using their own glasses and built in receiver. If Andrew and Nvidia crew add checkerboard to 3DTV Play, than we'll be able to use frame packing 1080p24hz, 720p60hz and also 1080p60hz checkerboard, but using Samsung glasses, not 3D Vision, so this is 3DTV Play, not 3D Vision. I always thought you could only use the 3D Vision glasses and it's IR receiver with 120hz display that have DVI-DL or DLP HDTV's that have a 3D sync output that is connected through the 3D Vision IR receiver's 3D sync input, isn't that right? I kindly ask you to please explain this to me.
[/quote]
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
Roller, please explain this to me, I've already asked this to you and got no answer. What do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with 2010 Samsung 3D Ready TV's??? I thought the only way to play games with my Samsung PN63C8000 using Nvidia drivers was through 3DTV Play, 1920x1080 24hz or 1280x720 60hz frame packing. You make it sound like you can use the 3D Vision glasses and IR receiver with the sammy 3D ready TV, is that correct?? It doesn't make sense since those HDMI 1.4 TV's don't have a 3D sync out like the HDMI 1.3 2008 HDTV Samsung 3D Plasmas or DLP Mitsubishi. So what do you mean that you can use 3D Vision with HDMI 1.4 TV's, don't you mean 3DTV Play????
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
I was about to try out Roller mod, but he said you need a piece of hardware hack to get rid of red message, so did you use this hardware hack or not? If you tell me that I can only change the .inf file that Roller created and then I can play games in my TV using Checkerboard 1080p60hz Page Flipping 1080p30hz without having to use a hardware hack to avoid the red message then I will definatelly try this out.
Please let me know that, thank your for clearing out things.
[/quote]
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
I was about to try out Roller mod, but he said you need a piece of hardware hack to get rid of red message, so did you use this hardware hack or not? If you tell me that I can only change the .inf file that Roller created and then I can play games in my TV using Checkerboard 1080p60hz Page Flipping 1080p30hz without having to use a hardware hack to avoid the red message then I will definatelly try this out.
Please let me know that, thank your for clearing out things.
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
[/quote]
A. I don't listen to tech support, and B. Have you ever heard the expression that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar? These same folks that are "deceiving" and "misinforming" are also the ones that sat here, asked questions about the checkerboard issues and decided to implement a fix. Give them a break. I'll be the first to say that they haven't been totally up front with all the issues (see top/bottom stereo extinction issues) but you can make your point without being so ad hominem.
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
A. I don't listen to tech support, and B. Have you ever heard the expression that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar? These same folks that are "deceiving" and "misinforming" are also the ones that sat here, asked questions about the checkerboard issues and decided to implement a fix. Give them a break. I'll be the first to say that they haven't been totally up front with all the issues (see top/bottom stereo extinction issues) but you can make your point without being so ad hominem.
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
[/quote]
Hi
I want to comment on this post since you are making some statements which are not true and you do not understand our products
3D Vision is our PC glasses solution designed for 3D Vision monitors, 3D Vision projectors, and DLP TVs. Our system requirements page specifically lists the models we support. Our 3D Vision glasses were never designed, tested, or planned to work with a 2010 Samsung Plasma LED HDMI 1.4 TV. We never planned it, we never tried it, and we never put in messaging on our website saying it would work. We did have a generic DLP mode for older Samsung DLPs which we had in there as an attempt to support it, but it was not tested as well as you should.
3DTV Play software is designed to allow our applications and games work over HDMI 1.4 for 3D TVs. You can use your Samsung plasma TV with 3DTV Play. The fact was that 3DTV Play was not launched when you purchased your TV, so our support team was correct in saying that you could not use this TV with 3D Vision glasses - its true, it doesnt work. We also have a statement on our website which says "NOTE:When using 3DTV Playâ„¢ software to connect to a 3D TV, 3D Vision active shutter glasses are not used. Instead the 3D TV manufacturer's 3D glasses are used"
I'm struggling to really follow this thread.
In fact, I am actually thinking about hosting a global conference call where you guys can call in and explain this to me live with engineers on the phone. we could host it so you guys are right next to your TVs.
What do you think? Would you guys be willing to do that?
Check my reply to your question in the last post on "nvidia, did you kill 3D Vision" thread:
" Nvidia said that 3D Vision would not work with my 55" Samsung HDMI1.4 LED 3DTV. I even had customer service tell me that over the phone. Of course that's a lie, it does work, and in checkerboard mode at that. "
I didn't mention that one must use the TVs glasses.
Your concept of how 3D Vision works is totally consistent with wrong info on Nvidia's website. 3D Vision has always worked with 2010 HDMI1.4 Samsung 3DTVs, but you must use the TVs glasses , not the Nvidia glasses. You still must plug the 3D Vision emitter into your PC, so technically you are doing 3D Vision, not 3DTV Play.
Nvidia has always known that 2010 plasma/LED Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTVs work perfectly with 3D Vision, yet they go out of their way to deceive users into thinking that 3D Vision does not work with these TVs. They even instruct their tech support people to misinform customers that call the support line.
Last April, I bought a Samsung HDMI1.4 3DTV specifically to use for 3D gaming with 3D Vision. When I got the TV home, 3D Vision setup was unsuccessful because I was using the Nvidia glasses instead of my Samsung glasses. I called nvidia tech support and they said unconditionally that 3D Vision cannot, will not work with my Samsung TV...no way, no how, period, end of story.
Of course they SHOULD have told me the truth, " you need to use your samsung glasses, not the nvidia glasses". End result, I returned this perfectly good TV which I loved and missed out on 7 months of 3D gaming.
These errors of omission are often the worst type because they stop you from discovering the truth on your own.
Hi
I want to comment on this post since you are making some statements which are not true and you do not understand our products
3D Vision is our PC glasses solution designed for 3D Vision monitors, 3D Vision projectors, and DLP TVs. Our system requirements page specifically lists the models we support. Our 3D Vision glasses were never designed, tested, or planned to work with a 2010 Samsung Plasma LED HDMI 1.4 TV. We never planned it, we never tried it, and we never put in messaging on our website saying it would work. We did have a generic DLP mode for older Samsung DLPs which we had in there as an attempt to support it, but it was not tested as well as you should.
3DTV Play software is designed to allow our applications and games work over HDMI 1.4 for 3D TVs. You can use your Samsung plasma TV with 3DTV Play. The fact was that 3DTV Play was not launched when you purchased your TV, so our support team was correct in saying that you could not use this TV with 3D Vision glasses - its true, it doesnt work. We also have a statement on our website which says "NOTE:When using 3DTV Playâ„¢ software to connect to a 3D TV, 3D Vision active shutter glasses are not used. Instead the 3D TV manufacturer's 3D glasses are used"
I'm struggling to really follow this thread.
In fact, I am actually thinking about hosting a global conference call where you guys can call in and explain this to me live with engineers on the phone. we could host it so you guys are right next to your TVs.
What do you think? Would you guys be willing to do that?
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
In our pre R260 drivers, we only had support for HDMI 1.3. So when we scanned a TV and looked at what modes it was capable of, we saw the HDMI 1.3 checkerboard 3D mode.
When we moved to R260 and beyond, we started implementing HDMI 1.4 support. Our driver would look for the HDMI 1.4 3D flag and when it found those modes, it immediately treated the TV as an HDMI 1.4 TV. That meant the previous HDMI 1.3 modes that you did have were no longer available to you.
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
In our pre R260 drivers, we only had support for HDMI 1.3. So when we scanned a TV and looked at what modes it was capable of, we saw the HDMI 1.3 checkerboard 3D mode.
When we moved to R260 and beyond, we started implementing HDMI 1.4 support. Our driver would look for the HDMI 1.4 3D flag and when it found those modes, it immediately treated the TV as an HDMI 1.4 TV. That meant the previous HDMI 1.3 modes that you did have were no longer available to you.
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
That's why I like this forum and I intend to have Nvidia over any other competitive solution.
I know you guys are trying to improve your product, and the best way is to listen to your customers, cause we find the bugs and problems and here is the place to discuss them.
Cheers Nvidia.........
That's why I like this forum and I intend to have Nvidia over any other competitive solution.
I know you guys are trying to improve your product, and the best way is to listen to your customers, cause we find the bugs and problems and here is the place to discuss them.
Cheers Nvidia.........
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
[/quote]
hehehe, Roller I don't play games in 2D my friend, it's been a long time, about 18 months since I bought my 3D Vision kit. Playing games in 3D in the big screen is new to me, but not 3D Vision which I bought in 2009 september and have been using it since. I play games in my Alienware 23" with 3D Vision all the time, no 2D anymore for me. Most games I play in 3D with 3D Vision, because I like 1920x1080 120hz, and most games I play using keyboard and mouse, which is not very suitable for TV gameplay, only joystick.
I'm glad to hear you don't get the red message while using page flipping 1920x1080 30hz mode, I guess I'm going to try that. In terms of eye candy quality is there any difference between Page Flipping 1920x1080 30hz and Frame Packing 1920x1080 24hz, besides hertz???? Is it full resolution per eye like frame packing mode provided by 3DTV Play?? I know Checkerboard isn't, it's only half resolution per eye, so it doesn't offer the same quality as frame packing, but it's 60hz and its better than 720p frame packing due to scaling which makes games grotesque in 720p using a native 1080p TV.
Anyway, if this page flipping is good stuff, and offers the same quality as 3DTV PLay frame packing, I don't know why Nvidia hasn't used it for 3DTV Play, since 30hz = 30fps is better than 24hz = 24fps??? Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
For checkerboard, you must do the hardware hack to suppress the red message. For page flip 1080P/30, you do not, there will be no red message.
Even if we get checkerboard, it will be a month from now, a month of playing games in 2D. If you don't want to wait, you can build a simple squarewave generator to suppress the message, or use the free trial Tridef or iZ3D drivers. By the time the trials end, we should have checkerboard from nvidia.
hehehe, Roller I don't play games in 2D my friend, it's been a long time, about 18 months since I bought my 3D Vision kit. Playing games in 3D in the big screen is new to me, but not 3D Vision which I bought in 2009 september and have been using it since. I play games in my Alienware 23" with 3D Vision all the time, no 2D anymore for me. Most games I play in 3D with 3D Vision, because I like 1920x1080 120hz, and most games I play using keyboard and mouse, which is not very suitable for TV gameplay, only joystick.
I'm glad to hear you don't get the red message while using page flipping 1920x1080 30hz mode, I guess I'm going to try that. In terms of eye candy quality is there any difference between Page Flipping 1920x1080 30hz and Frame Packing 1920x1080 24hz, besides hertz???? Is it full resolution per eye like frame packing mode provided by 3DTV Play?? I know Checkerboard isn't, it's only half resolution per eye, so it doesn't offer the same quality as frame packing, but it's 60hz and its better than 720p frame packing due to scaling which makes games grotesque in 720p using a native 1080p TV.
Anyway, if this page flipping is good stuff, and offers the same quality as 3DTV PLay frame packing, I don't know why Nvidia hasn't used it for 3DTV Play, since 30hz = 30fps is better than 24hz = 24fps??? Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flipping (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz frame packing (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz frame packing (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flipping (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz frame packing (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz frame packing (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
[/quote]
page flip is 1920x1080/30 so you will see some improvement vs 1920x1080/24. perhaps some one can explain the technical difference between page flip and framepack, they look the same to me. Better still is checkerboard. Technically, it's a downgrade from 1920x1080 framepack but I see virtually no difference on my Samsung plasma between 1080P FP and 1080P CB. I also used CB on a Mits DLP, and I could see a significant 'screen door' effect. My conclusion is that CB is a visible compromise on DLP, but not on plasma. Even so, CB isn't nearly as bad as upscaled 720P on a DLP.
Page Flipping is better or the same as Frame Packing in terms of ghosting and flickering issues???
I'm playing Dead Space 2 in my Samsung Plasma 3D Ready TV using 3DTV Play at 1920x1080 24hz and If I could get it to 30hz it would be a lot smoother I guess. 30 fps is the average for good gameplay, but below is sacrifice. Anyway Dead Space 2 is playable at 24fps, a few games are.
page flip is 1920x1080/30 so you will see some improvement vs 1920x1080/24. perhaps some one can explain the technical difference between page flip and framepack, they look the same to me. Better still is checkerboard. Technically, it's a downgrade from 1920x1080 framepack but I see virtually no difference on my Samsung plasma between 1080P FP and 1080P CB. I also used CB on a Mits DLP, and I could see a significant 'screen door' effect. My conclusion is that CB is a visible compromise on DLP, but not on plasma. Even so, CB isn't nearly as bad as upscaled 720P on a DLP.
All
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
...............
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
[/quote]
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
All
I also think we have uncovered the problem for all of the Samsung owners that were asking why their checkerboard mode went away.
...............
I believe this issue was entirely a bug on our driver detection, and we never went out of our way to shut it off.
I think this is the crux of the problem and we have to investigate a solution to add it back, as I previously mentioned.
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
[/quote]
Unfortunately I dont there will be a "quick fix", but I will see whats possible.
Since it will be a month or more before the next driver release, can we at least get an interim fix for the dreaded red overlay message which amounts to a false error message? I'm refering to the message "stereo 3D sync signal not present at emitter". This message is bogus whenever the TVs emitter is used, as is the case for the HDMI1.4 Samsungs and others. You could create a mini program that when executed on a system with 3D Vision installed, the message is either suppressed, or at least put on a 5 second timeout like your other warning messages. Even in cases where the message serves a purpose, there's no reason to have it remain on longer than 5 seconds. This could be an optional downloadable applet, so only those who go to the trouble of executing the program will be affected. That way, those who need immediate relief from this message need not wait until the next overall 3D Vision release.
Unfortunately I dont there will be a "quick fix", but I will see whats possible.
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flicking (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz page flipping (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz page flipping (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
[/quote]
3 and 4 you mean Frame Packing, right?
I have owned such a HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung Plasma (with 1360x768 resolution) and it worked great with 3D vision emitter and glasses in checkerboard (Generic DLP) mode.
I currently own a Samsung HDMI 1.4 Samsung Plasma (1920x1080 resolution) and it works even better in checkerboard mode with the Samsung or XPAND X103 glasses. I though had to do the hacks described earlier in this thread (DVI-Detective + Square wave generator) to reenable this mode and the page flipping mode (Generic CRT) in the newer R260 3D vison drivers.
Having tried all modes for gaming I would rate them in the following order:
1) 1080p@60Hz checkerboard (60Hz per eye) - Best compomise between graphical quality and frame rate
2) 1080p@60Hz page flicking (30Hz per eye) - Best graphical quality with decent frame rate for some game types
3) 720p@60Hz page flipping (60 Hz per eye) - Worse graphic due to low resolution and upscaling to 1080p
4) 1080@24Hz page flipping (24Hz per eye) - To low frame rate for most game types
3 and 4 you mean Frame Packing, right?
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
3 and 4 you mean Frame Packing, right?
[/quote]
Of course, already have corrected it in the original post.
3 and 4 you mean Frame Packing, right?
Of course, already have corrected it in the original post.
If you know, what's the difference between Samsung's 'page flipping' and mandatory frame packing? Both technically and visually?
If you know, what's the difference between Samsung's 'page flipping' and mandatory frame packing? Both technically and visually?
Nobsi,
If you know, what's the difference between Samsung's 'page flipping' and mandatory frame packing? Both technically and visually?
[/quote]
Page flipping is the classic 3D mode used by CRTs. Full left and right view are transmitted in alternate order (L,R,L,R...) from the graphics card to the display. Since classic CRTs had no advanced image processing and showed the frames as received, a frequency of at leat 100Hz was required to prevent flickering caused by the shutter glasses, which halfes the frequency per eye. With the advanced digital image processing of actual HDTVs, the frame rate limitation is no longer valid, since the TV can store frames and repeat them to increase visual frame rate and prevent flickering.
Due to this, the Samsung can receive a 1920x1080 page flipping signal @ 60Hz, which gives 30 FPS per eye, and show it without flickering. Most probably it shows every frame twice (L,L,R,R,L,L,R,R...).
With frame packing on the other side every frame contains the left and rigth view combined to a super frame (either side-by-side or up-down). The graphic cards packs two views (L&R) in a single frame, thus frame packing. Because of this, 60Hz frame packing transmitts really 60 left and right views per second from the graphic card to the display. The display than stores and unpacks this frames and shows both views in alternate order for left and right eye. But current HDTV circuity can not handle 1080p@60Hz frame packing format, only 720p@60Hz.
To sum it up:
1080p@60Hz page flipping = 30 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@24Hz frame packing = 24 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
720p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1280x720 resolution
Nobsi,
If you know, what's the difference between Samsung's 'page flipping' and mandatory frame packing? Both technically and visually?
Page flipping is the classic 3D mode used by CRTs. Full left and right view are transmitted in alternate order (L,R,L,R...) from the graphics card to the display. Since classic CRTs had no advanced image processing and showed the frames as received, a frequency of at leat 100Hz was required to prevent flickering caused by the shutter glasses, which halfes the frequency per eye. With the advanced digital image processing of actual HDTVs, the frame rate limitation is no longer valid, since the TV can store frames and repeat them to increase visual frame rate and prevent flickering.
Due to this, the Samsung can receive a 1920x1080 page flipping signal @ 60Hz, which gives 30 FPS per eye, and show it without flickering. Most probably it shows every frame twice (L,L,R,R,L,L,R,R...).
With frame packing on the other side every frame contains the left and rigth view combined to a super frame (either side-by-side or up-down). The graphic cards packs two views (L&R) in a single frame, thus frame packing. Because of this, 60Hz frame packing transmitts really 60 left and right views per second from the graphic card to the display. The display than stores and unpacks this frames and shows both views in alternate order for left and right eye. But current HDTV circuity can not handle 1080p@60Hz frame packing format, only 720p@60Hz.
To sum it up:
1080p@60Hz page flipping = 30 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
1080p@24Hz frame packing = 24 FPS per eye with 1920x1080 resolution
720p@60Hz frame packing = 60 FPS per eye with 1280x720 resolution