VALVE and HTC join to make new VR Headset "VIVE", 2160x1200, 110° FOV, Available 2015.
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Great reading there Volnaiskra. Really like that comment one guy made below: "Who would have thought a company like facebook which prides itself on stealing, selling and sharing your information to strangers could be outed by a company that's trustworthy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ".
Great reading there Volnaiskra. Really like that comment one guy made below:
"Who would have thought a company like facebook which prides itself on stealing, selling and sharing your information to strangers could be outed by a company that's trustworthy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ".
Any discussion about associated standards/approaches for VR game development - to encourage actual game developers to support VR and the growing number of hardware devices (with multiple user control approaches)? I notice LOTS of hardware discussion, but very little about game developer support, required for creating growth in VR content. For example, standard approach for VR optics compensation?
Any discussion about associated standards/approaches for VR game development - to encourage actual game developers to support VR and the growing number of hardware devices (with multiple user control approaches)? I notice LOTS of hardware discussion, but very little about game developer support, required for creating growth in VR content. For example, standard approach for VR optics compensation?

#17
Posted 03/06/2015 01:55 PM   
Interesting, there is a live blog post with slides from the presentation discussing exactly these things... [url]http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-talks-advanced-vr-rendering-live-blog-5pm-pst/[/url] Here are a couple of images, but the entire presentation with comments is quite concise and complete. I believe the coders among us will find it a thoroughly informative read... They even give you best pracrtices and sample code... [i]"This is literally a 50% perf booster across the board. If you're using the SteamVR API, we'll give you these stencils because it's different per headset."[/i] -- Alex Vlachos – Graphics Programmer, Valve [img]http://cdn1.24liveblog.com/images/2015/03/05/img_54f7b937f34a9.jpg[/img] [img]http://cdn1.24liveblog.com/images/2015/03/05/img_54f7b8c79b1ac.jpg[/img]
Interesting, there is a live blog post with slides from the presentation discussing exactly these things...

http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-talks-advanced-vr-rendering-live-blog-5pm-pst/

Here are a couple of images, but the entire presentation with comments is quite concise and complete. I believe the coders among us will find it a thoroughly informative read...

They even give you best pracrtices and sample code...

"This is literally a 50% perf booster across the board. If you're using the SteamVR API, we'll give you these stencils because it's different per headset."

-- Alex Vlachos – Graphics Programmer, Valve

Image

Image

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#18
Posted 03/06/2015 03:08 PM   
Yeah. It's pretty cool. Couple that with SLI enabling 2X performance (at least with AMD), and driving these 1.4X resolutions @ 90hz seems to be getting a lot more manageable.
Yeah. It's pretty cool. Couple that with SLI enabling 2X performance (at least with AMD), and driving these 1.4X resolutions @ 90hz seems to be getting a lot more manageable.

#19
Posted 03/06/2015 03:28 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]You'll need to be able to do distance viewing 3D to be able to see it.[/quote] Am I the only one who finds that viewing method far easier and more comfortable than cross-eye? I struggle to view crosseye, but the reverse is no problem.
bo3b said:You'll need to be able to do distance viewing 3D to be able to see it.

Am I the only one who finds that viewing method far easier and more comfortable than cross-eye? I struggle to view crosseye, but the reverse is no problem.

#20
Posted 03/06/2015 04:16 PM   
[quote="Paul33993"]Yeah. It's pretty cool. Couple that with SLI enabling 2X performance (at least with AMD), and driving these 1.4X resolutions @ 90hz seems to be getting a lot more manageable. [/quote] That's a great point. And, from what I understand, we will no longer be constrained to 2 cards in SLi/CF as we are with 3D Vision @ 60 fps - we can have a Quad SLi/CF setup and it should still scale as well as modern 2 card SLI does... The next generation of cards should hopefully easily handle this even with 2 card SLi. The limiting factor might then be the CPU - we are already seeing it in today's games. Its strange that DX12 and Vulkan (OpenGL Next) are not being mentioned here much, as they take away the CPU overhead and bottleneck to a large extent. Some more thoughts... I also haven't heard anyone talking about the HDMI limitations vs projected final resolutions. Assuming they are using 2.0, the max resolution supported is: 4096×2160p60 This translates to 530,841,600 pixels / second, or 4096x1440p90 for a single screen (Oculus route) or 2048x1440p90 for a double screen (HTC VIVE Route). As a comparison, Oculous used (IIRC) the note 3 screen at 1920x1080 for their devkit 2, unknown at Crescent Bay. AFAIK, the best screen currently is on the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, at 2560×1440. Some people have hypothesised that CB prototypes are using this. There seems to be quite a bit of scope for improvement for SteamVR's resolution if the screens are already on the market. 116,640,000 pixels / second current (1080x1200x90) vs 265,420,800 pixels / second potential (2048x1440x90), which is 2.3x the resolution. I should probably bring to attention here that HTC do not have access to AMOLED screens from Samsung any more, if I recall correctly. This means that Oculus will be AMOLED whereas HTC VIVE will likely be a competing LCD technology which I am a little disappointed with, it won't have AMOLED's "incredible contrast and rich colours".
Paul33993 said:Yeah. It's pretty cool. Couple that with SLI enabling 2X performance (at least with AMD), and driving these 1.4X resolutions @ 90hz seems to be getting a lot more manageable.


That's a great point. And, from what I understand, we will no longer be constrained to 2 cards in SLi/CF as we are with 3D Vision @ 60 fps - we can have a Quad SLi/CF setup and it should still scale as well as modern 2 card SLI does...

The next generation of cards should hopefully easily handle this even with 2 card SLi.

The limiting factor might then be the CPU - we are already seeing it in today's games. Its strange that DX12 and Vulkan (OpenGL Next) are not being mentioned here much, as they take away the CPU overhead and bottleneck to a large extent.

Some more thoughts...

I also haven't heard anyone talking about the HDMI limitations vs projected final resolutions.

Assuming they are using 2.0, the max resolution supported is: 4096×2160p60

This translates to 530,841,600 pixels / second, or 4096x1440p90 for a single screen (Oculus route) or 2048x1440p90 for a double screen (HTC VIVE Route).

As a comparison, Oculous used (IIRC) the note 3 screen at 1920x1080 for their devkit 2, unknown at Crescent Bay.

AFAIK, the best screen currently is on the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, at 2560×1440. Some people have hypothesised that CB prototypes are using this.

There seems to be quite a bit of scope for improvement for SteamVR's resolution if the screens are already on the market.

116,640,000 pixels / second current (1080x1200x90) vs 265,420,800 pixels / second potential (2048x1440x90), which is 2.3x the resolution.

I should probably bring to attention here that HTC do not have access to AMOLED screens from Samsung any more, if I recall correctly. This means that Oculus will be AMOLED whereas HTC VIVE will likely be a competing LCD technology which I am a little disappointed with, it won't have AMOLED's "incredible contrast and rich colours".

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#21
Posted 03/06/2015 05:59 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Interesting, there is a live blog post with slides from the presentation discussing exactly these things... [url]http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-talks-advanced-vr-rendering-live-blog-5pm-pst/[/url] [/quote] Great information. Did any development studios or publishers indicate that they were actively using these tools?
RAGEdemon said:Interesting, there is a live blog post with slides from the presentation discussing exactly these things...

http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-talks-advanced-vr-rendering-live-blog-5pm-pst/

Great information. Did any development studios or publishers indicate that they were actively using these tools?

#22
Posted 03/06/2015 08:01 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"] we can have a Quad SLi/CF setup and it should still scale as well as modern 2 card SLI does...[/quote] Have you seen the unfounded rumors that DirectX 12 will support Hybrid cross manufacturer split frame rendering like Lucid Hydra has repeatedly attempted with limited success? Read "Exclusive: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon" at.... http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html
RAGEdemon said: we can have a Quad SLi/CF setup and it should still scale as well as modern 2 card SLI does...


Have you seen the unfounded rumors that DirectX 12 will support Hybrid cross manufacturer split frame rendering like Lucid Hydra has repeatedly attempted with limited success?

Read "Exclusive: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon" at....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html

#23
Posted 03/06/2015 08:44 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="RAGEdemon"] we can have a Quad SLi/CF setup and it should still scale as well as modern 2 card SLI does...[/quote] Have you seen the unfounded rumors that DirectX 12 will support Hybrid cross manufacturer split frame rendering like Lucid Hydra has repeatedly attempted with limited success? Read "Exclusive: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon" at.... http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html[/quote] Thanks for the link D-Man11, I have. I also heard that nvidia have grunted that they will not allow it and will block it out at the driver level. If nVidia have their way, they would ensure anything they have a say in is locked down. If they can't have full control, then no-one can have it at all, innovation and progress be damned :/
D-Man11 said:
RAGEdemon said: we can have a Quad SLi/CF setup and it should still scale as well as modern 2 card SLI does...


Have you seen the unfounded rumors that DirectX 12 will support Hybrid cross manufacturer split frame rendering like Lucid Hydra has repeatedly attempted with limited success?

Read "Exclusive: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon" at....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html


Thanks for the link D-Man11, I have.

I also heard that nvidia have grunted that they will not allow it and will block it out at the driver level.

If nVidia have their way, they would ensure anything they have a say in is locked down. If they can't have full control, then no-one can have it at all, innovation and progress be damned :/

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#24
Posted 03/06/2015 09:02 PM   
I've always been wary of Oculus Rift way before Facebook buy out but this is pretty damn exciting. My main problems with Rift was single screen/huge amount of wasted pixels and lack of any major developer being excited. Valve pretty much addressed both my concerns day one. ---------------- Its always been scary how much of PC gaming valve controlled but now its about to be insane. Source engine 2 is going to be used more then UE and Unity combined imo. Not to mention all this hardware.
I've always been wary of Oculus Rift way before Facebook buy out but this is pretty damn exciting.
My main problems with Rift was single screen/huge amount of wasted pixels and lack of any major developer being excited.
Valve pretty much addressed both my concerns day one.

----------------
Its always been scary how much of PC gaming valve controlled but now its about to be insane. Source engine 2 is going to be used more then UE and Unity combined imo. Not to mention all this hardware.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#25
Posted 03/06/2015 09:13 PM   
Well, they're going to have to get a lot better with their tools for Source 2 to have a chance. But they seem to be suggesting they realize this. Honestly, the best thing about Unity is the Asset Store. But Valve already runs a bunch of marketplaces. So I'm sure they'll also have an Asset store available for Source 2. At least I'm hoping. Unity is very cool, but since I've started using it, I live in fear some big company is just going to buy it and kill Unity off as a public engine.
Well, they're going to have to get a lot better with their tools for Source 2 to have a chance. But they seem to be suggesting they realize this.

Honestly, the best thing about Unity is the Asset Store. But Valve already runs a bunch of marketplaces. So I'm sure they'll also have an Asset store available for Source 2. At least I'm hoping. Unity is very cool, but since I've started using it, I live in fear some big company is just going to buy it and kill Unity off as a public engine.

#26
Posted 03/06/2015 09:25 PM   
Aren't Valve opening up their tech to everyone? I don't believe it will be limited to Source 2. Perhaps Unity will integrate Steam VR support natively as they have done with Oculus? UE3 already supports VR. Also, "HTC Vive and Steam VR has Google, HBO and Lionsgate as Content Developers": [url]http://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-steam-vr-google-hbo-lionsgate-content-devlelopers/[/url] Content indeed will be the big deciding factor. The worst thing that can happen is if the VR headset companies start fragmenting the developer base.
Aren't Valve opening up their tech to everyone? I don't believe it will be limited to Source 2. Perhaps Unity will integrate Steam VR support natively as they have done with Oculus?

UE3 already supports VR. Also, "HTC Vive and Steam VR has Google, HBO and Lionsgate as Content Developers":

http://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-steam-vr-google-hbo-lionsgate-content-devlelopers/

Content indeed will be the big deciding factor. The worst thing that can happen is if the VR headset companies start fragmenting the developer base.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#27
Posted 03/06/2015 11:30 PM   
Source 2 is a completely different topic. Steam VR and Source 2 are completely separate. I think he was just saying, 0 percent royalties (and no restrictions) is superior to Unity or UE4. The haters will say you have to launch your game on Steam (in order to qualify for free Source 2 usage), but who makes a PC game and doesn't publish on Steam? Notch, of course. But that was a once in a century story. So, yes, Valve VR is completely open to everything. Source 2 is just cool because it potentially adds a third middleware solution that could become incredibly appealing if the tools live up to what Valve is promising (which is that content creators should be able to use and excel with Source 2).
Source 2 is a completely different topic. Steam VR and Source 2 are completely separate.

I think he was just saying, 0 percent royalties (and no restrictions) is superior to Unity or UE4.

The haters will say you have to launch your game on Steam (in order to qualify for free Source 2 usage), but who makes a PC game and doesn't publish on Steam? Notch, of course. But that was a once in a century story.

So, yes, Valve VR is completely open to everything. Source 2 is just cool because it potentially adds a third middleware solution that could become incredibly appealing if the tools live up to what Valve is promising (which is that content creators should be able to use and excel with Source 2).

#28
Posted 03/06/2015 11:37 PM   
Steam put their VR code on GitHub about a year ago. At the same time they added VR in the tools section of the Steam client for players in a Beta opt in form. EDIT: found the Steam VR video from Steam's Dev Days last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vqNpZqnl1o&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm
Steam put their VR code on GitHub about a year ago.

At the same time they added VR in the tools section of the Steam client for players in a Beta opt in form.

EDIT: found the Steam VR video from Steam's Dev Days last year.

;list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm

#29
Posted 03/06/2015 11:40 PM   
Source 2 is going to be big as opposed to first cause it really wasnt user friendly/multiplatform ready. People like building a test of a game first and the fact that its free and going to be the center of so many things that your can borrow assets from just to try the basis of a game [filmmaker, garry, valve games, etc]. Even IF you don't build that stuff into your game cause of rights. Tons of people will be open to experimenting. Look at kickstarter as an example. You can just download Source 2. Play around with it till your game is ready to show idea as opposed to just explaining the game. The fact that it will be that Valve will make sure it has VR support is very excited. Kickstarter will be responsible for a huge amount of early VR games. Not to mention things that will almost certainly transition to Source 2 [Source filmmaker, garrys mod, etc]. ------------- Though the only thing that sucks is exclusivitity. I know I am preordering HTC Vive as soon as I can but.. Oculus is co-publishing luckey's tale [who cares] BUT also eve:valkyrie Wonder if Valve will retaliate if these games remain exclusive on pc. Like forcing them to not be bought on steam or even there own exclusives. It just sucks cause even though I know I will commit that so many people will wait till there is a clear winner [Cause these things ant gonna be cheap.
Source 2 is going to be big as opposed to first cause it really wasnt user friendly/multiplatform ready.

People like building a test of a game first and the fact that its free and going to be the center of so many things that your can borrow assets from just to try the basis of a game [filmmaker, garry, valve games, etc]. Even IF you don't build that stuff into your game cause of rights. Tons of people will be open to experimenting.

Look at kickstarter as an example. You can just download Source 2. Play around with it till your game is ready to show idea as opposed to just explaining the game.

The fact that it will be that Valve will make sure it has VR support is very excited. Kickstarter will be responsible for a huge amount of early VR games. Not to mention things that will almost certainly transition to Source 2 [Source filmmaker, garrys mod, etc].
-------------
Though the only thing that sucks is exclusivitity. I know I am preordering HTC Vive as soon as I can but..
Oculus is co-publishing luckey's tale [who cares] BUT also eve:valkyrie
Wonder if Valve will retaliate if these games remain exclusive on pc. Like forcing them to not be bought on steam or even there own exclusives.

It just sucks cause even though I know I will commit that so many people will wait till there is a clear winner [Cause these things ant gonna be cheap.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#30
Posted 03/06/2015 11:48 PM   
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