Bladerunners was awsome, the theater not.
went to see the new Bladerunner at my countrys second "biggest" city to see it in 3D. i could not get seat in the 1 room but the 2 theater room. well i asked " do you have same tehcnique in those rooms" .."yes we use dolby´s system in every room". it´s the one thechique where the glasses use spectral filtering so no silverscreen is need to reduce hotspot and shimmering. and there is a active componen on the light path to cut the signal into half... ouh my good yet again when the movie started i felt like my eyes gonna pop off and fall to the floor. horrible horrible. I have yet seen but only one decent 3d presentation in theaters and that was in imax sweden and shall say with 99 prosent conficende they use dual projection as there i had no propblem with active flickering and image was bright. The point of this thread is i wonder why 3d movies are still made and watched in commersial venues as people get this kind of shit in their eyes. these technics involving active 3d in theaters is so bad. i felt like watching the movie without the glasses as we finnish never give up. so leaving the theater was not option. Well i suffered and at the end it was not that bad as you watch that flickery shit your eyes propably get some use to it....and it was way tooo dark, not enough light output. yes i got a headache and it kind of fucked up my experience. It was superb movie and i have to watch it again from bd...sad thing is it costed more for the two of us then ordering the bluray copy.
went to see the new Bladerunner at my countrys second "biggest" city to see it in 3D.
i could not get seat in the 1 room but the 2 theater room. well i asked " do you have same tehcnique in those rooms" .."yes we use dolby´s system in every room".

it´s the one thechique where the glasses use spectral filtering so no silverscreen is need to reduce hotspot and shimmering. and there is a active componen on the light path to cut the signal into half...

ouh my good yet again when the movie started i felt like my eyes gonna pop off and fall to the floor.
horrible horrible. I have yet seen but only one decent 3d presentation in theaters and that was in imax sweden and shall say with 99 prosent conficende they use dual projection as there i had no propblem with active flickering and image was bright.

The point of this thread is i wonder why 3d movies are still made and watched in commersial venues as people get this kind of shit in their eyes. these technics involving active 3d in theaters is so bad. i felt like watching the movie without the glasses as we finnish never give up. so leaving the theater was not option. Well i suffered and at the end it was not that bad as you watch that flickery shit your eyes propably get some use to it....and it was way tooo dark, not enough light output.
yes i got a headache and it kind of fucked up my experience. It was superb movie and i have to watch it again from bd...sad thing is it costed more for the two of us then ordering the bluray copy.

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#1
Posted 10/08/2017 03:11 PM   
I did see it yesterday in passive 3D in an Empire cinema in the UK. Horrible crosstalk and shallow depth but still better than 2D :) .Amazing movie though!
I did see it yesterday in passive 3D in an Empire cinema in the UK. Horrible crosstalk and shallow depth but still better than 2D :) .Amazing movie though!

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#2
Posted 10/08/2017 04:16 PM   
it´s kind of funny that there is crosstalk allthough the spectral filtters itself produce almoust zero crosstalk. makes you think how mych the channels bleed to eachother becuase of active devices in the signal path. Movie is Amazing in every aspect... i thought to my self during that movie " man we watch some mediocre shit from day to day when movies can be this good"
it´s kind of funny that there is crosstalk allthough the spectral filtters itself produce almoust zero crosstalk.
makes you think how mych the channels bleed to eachother becuase of active devices in the signal path.

Movie is Amazing in every aspect... i thought to my self during that movie " man we watch some mediocre shit from day to day when movies can be this good"

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#3
Posted 10/08/2017 04:24 PM   
Even though the theaters in Austin are really nice, i have yet to have a good 3D movie experience. There's always a lot of ghosting/crosstalk. So now I just watch movies in 2D at the theater, and then re-watch them in 3D at home on my projector, where i know the 3D is going to look good. Bladerunner 2049 was really good, way better than I would expect a sequel to ever be. The director captured the nuances of the original movie incredibly well. That being said, I still like the original better.
Even though the theaters in Austin are really nice, i have yet to have a good 3D movie experience. There's always a lot of ghosting/crosstalk. So now I just watch movies in 2D at the theater, and then re-watch them in 3D at home on my projector, where i know the 3D is going to look good.

Bladerunner 2049 was really good, way better than I would expect a sequel to ever be. The director captured the nuances of the original movie incredibly well. That being said, I still like the original better.

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#4
Posted 10/08/2017 07:37 PM   
I didn't like the movie. Way too many wide-open scenes and too much grayish color-grading. The music and atmosphere is also nothing like the original. It was a much too modern movie for my taste compared to what I felt was good of the classic final cut. The plot I won't even go into... suffers too much from Hollywood's contemporary ideas of exposition. Without the Blade Runner name and massive runtime this movie could stand alone as any typical and forgettable Hollywood sci-fi nowadays. Now for the 3D in theaters - you must try to watch a film at your nearest laser projector-equipped theater, Dolby Vision or Imax with Laser. The difference in watchability in all categories is dramatic. No crosstalk, colors are great, motion is perfect within the bounds of these films still being in 24 fps.
I didn't like the movie. Way too many wide-open scenes and too much grayish color-grading. The music and atmosphere is also nothing like the original. It was a much too modern movie for my taste compared to what I felt was good of the classic final cut. The plot I won't even go into... suffers too much from Hollywood's contemporary ideas of exposition. Without the Blade Runner name and massive runtime this movie could stand alone as any typical and forgettable Hollywood sci-fi nowadays.

Now for the 3D in theaters - you must try to watch a film at your nearest laser projector-equipped theater, Dolby Vision or Imax with Laser. The difference in watchability in all categories is dramatic. No crosstalk, colors are great, motion is perfect within the bounds of these films still being in 24 fps.

#5
Posted 10/08/2017 09:32 PM   
...decided to hold off until true HDR . Found Metal-O-Holic's "active splitter" : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nfvnk3YEgnE/TQlhJaJ_uYI/AAAAAAAAAcw/VXKFDdAF194/s400/jdsufilterwheel.jpg Wow, makes you think if they also waste a lot of light, because they don't have the correct narrow primaries to begin with. Also explains crosstalk. Probably low light output rather explains the eyesore than active flickering. After all that fuss about narrow line width laser projection , to this end, doing a disservice to 3D ...
...decided to hold off until true HDR .

Found Metal-O-Holic's "active splitter" :

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nfvnk3YEgnE/TQlhJaJ_uYI/AAAAAAAAAcw/VXKFDdAF194/s400/jdsufilterwheel.jpg

Wow, makes you think if they also waste a lot of light, because they don't have the correct narrow primaries to begin with. Also explains crosstalk.
Probably low light output rather explains the eyesore than active flickering.

After all that fuss about narrow line width laser projection , to this end, doing a disservice to 3D ...

#6
Posted 10/13/2017 04:24 PM   
[quote="aeliusg"]Now for the 3D in theaters - you must try to watch a film at your nearest laser projector-equipped theater, Dolby Vision or Imax with Laser. The difference in watchability in all categories is dramatic. No crosstalk, colors are great, motion is perfect within the bounds of these films still being in 24 fps.[/quote] I have visited local theater which has barco laser 4k projector and Atmos sound, and I must say the movie was awesome - 3d was great with 0 crosstalk, image was bright (for cinema 3d standarts), sound effects where awesome, and I really liked the movie itself too.
aeliusg said:Now for the 3D in theaters - you must try to watch a film at your nearest laser projector-equipped theater, Dolby Vision or Imax with Laser. The difference in watchability in all categories is dramatic. No crosstalk, colors are great, motion is perfect within the bounds of these films still being in 24 fps.


I have visited local theater which has barco laser 4k projector and Atmos sound, and I must say the movie was awesome - 3d was great with 0 crosstalk, image was bright (for cinema 3d standarts), sound effects where awesome, and I really liked the movie itself too.

#7
Posted 10/13/2017 05:16 PM   
[quote="ak4115"]...decided to hold off until true HDR . Found Metal-O-Holic's "active splitter" : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nfvnk3YEgnE/TQlhJaJ_uYI/AAAAAAAAAcw/VXKFDdAF194/s400/jdsufilterwheel.jpg Wow, makes you think if they also waste a lot of light, because they don't have the correct narrow primaries to begin with. Also explains crosstalk. Probably low light output rather explains the eyesore than active flickering. After all that fuss about narrow line width laser projection , to this end, doing a disservice to 3D ...[/quote] Yes good brightness is pretty crusial it even flattens the 3d effect. I have a real problem with any active device, its always flickery to me. I can only Enjoy passive 3d. The image almoust tears At its worst everytime i move my eyes during active 3d presentation
ak4115 said:...decided to hold off until true HDR .

Found Metal-O-Holic's "active splitter" :


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nfvnk3YEgnE/TQlhJaJ_uYI/AAAAAAAAAcw/VXKFDdAF194/s400/jdsufilterwheel.jpg


Wow, makes you think if they also waste a lot of light, because they don't have the correct narrow primaries to begin with. Also explains crosstalk.
Probably low light output rather explains the eyesore than active flickering.

After all that fuss about narrow line width laser projection , to this end, doing a disservice to 3D ...


Yes good brightness is pretty crusial it even flattens the 3d effect.
I have a real problem with any active device, its always flickery to me. I can only Enjoy passive 3d.
The image almoust tears At its worst everytime i move my eyes during active 3d presentation

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#8
Posted 10/13/2017 05:37 PM   
24 fps and active 3D are arch-enemies , because the higher the frame-rate the more time-parallel the latter becomes, and 24fps is apparently the rock bottom, so the significance of 60 per eye shouldn't be underestimated. Plus since 24fps is bad anyway bc. temporal aliasing, time-parallel passive is just a band-aid scenario, it's not a real fix. Only If Douglas Trumbull & his inventions were responsible for the new Bladerunner (too)... Looks like he took active 3D to breaking point and it's all new: https://www.insightmedia.info/a-visit-to-trumbull-studios/ [quote=Doug Trumbull]“The left and right eye images of a 3D frame are captured simultaneously, but they are displayed time sequentially. That means there is automatically a subtle artifact because the motion in the left and right eyes that the user perceives is not synchronized. In the Magi system, we capture left and right eye images 180 degrees out of phase so they match up with the way they are presented on a single DLP projector.” [/quote]
24 fps and active 3D are arch-enemies , because the higher the frame-rate the more time-parallel the latter becomes, and 24fps is apparently the rock bottom, so the significance of 60 per eye shouldn't be underestimated.

Plus since 24fps is bad anyway bc. temporal aliasing, time-parallel passive is just a band-aid scenario, it's not a real fix.

Only If Douglas Trumbull & his inventions were responsible for the new Bladerunner (too)...
Looks like he took active 3D to breaking point and it's all new:

https://www.insightmedia.info/a-visit-to-trumbull-studios/

Doug Trumbull said:“The left and right eye images of a 3D frame are captured simultaneously, but they are displayed time sequentially. That means there is automatically a subtle artifact because the motion in the left and right eyes that the user perceives is not synchronized. In the Magi system, we capture left and right eye images 180 degrees out of phase so they match up with the way they are presented on a single DLP projector.”

#9
Posted 10/13/2017 06:44 PM   
Dual projection is the answer. And i still see the flicker super annoying no matter 60 or 120hz 2 projectors with superb motion interpolation and so both left and right images displayed continuos to eye with 2D quality. I don't know but i think my setup is better in many ways than Imax Sweden. Or any other theater i have been and Yes its not cheap but Its not that expensive either. The interpolation plays a big part. I hate 24 signal but i love the film feeling of it. And i hate high frame rate, it totallly rapes movies. Interpolation like in Mitsubishis projectors is superb. Filmy still not jerky, Yes there is few times per movie when you might see a interpolation error as it can be seen as anomality in other eye, but its nobiggie. Sadly mitsubishi is out of the business.
Dual projection is the answer.
And i still see the flicker super annoying no matter 60 or 120hz

2 projectors with superb motion interpolation and so both left and right images displayed continuos to eye with 2D quality.
I don't know but i think my setup is better in many ways than Imax Sweden. Or any other theater i have been and Yes its not cheap but
Its not that expensive either.

The interpolation plays a big part. I hate 24 signal but i love the film feeling of it. And i hate high frame rate, it totallly rapes movies.
Interpolation like in Mitsubishis projectors is superb. Filmy still not jerky, Yes there is few times per movie when you might see a interpolation error as it can be seen as anomality in other eye, but its nobiggie. Sadly mitsubishi is out of the business.

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#10
Posted 10/13/2017 07:29 PM   
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]Dual projection is the answer. And i still see the flicker super annoying no matter 60 or 120hz [/quote] Well, engineers usually think like, [i] "What's good enough is perfect" [/i] Personally I take flicker -it means "less and less" as the upgrade path is clear on that front. And btw. it should be worst at your peripherial vision , so Trumbull with his wide projection already has a winner IMO (though at 14 ftL flicker should be less obvious than say 140) . Polarization is angle dependent , spectral splitting causes color discrepancy, and both are just about twice as expensive, latter even more because ultra specialized light source that also needs to be wavelength stabilized. [quote="Metal-O-Holic"]The interpolation plays a big part. I hate 24 signal but i love the film feeling of it. And i hate high frame rate, it totallly rapes movies.[/quote] Afaik, Trumbull solved that part too. [quote] “It’s not just about higher frame rates,” he said of creative filmmaking. He suggested that filmmakers use what is appropriate to a given movie. “There is no one size fits all.” But like Cameron, he emphasized the benefits of higher frame rates include reduction of strobing and sharper images. He reported that he plans to helm a 3D feature that would be shot using his ShowScan Digital system that uses 24 fps but allows embedded 60 frames per second sequences. He has applied for a patent on the system. [/quote] I think I'd *[i]much[/i]* prefer this scene in 60 instead of streaky 24. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zqp_gfTtVo
Metal-O-Holic said:Dual projection is the answer.
And i still see the flicker super annoying no matter 60 or 120hz


Well, engineers usually think like,

"What's good enough is perfect"


Personally I take flicker -it means "less and less" as the upgrade path is clear on that front. And btw. it should be worst at your peripherial vision , so Trumbull with his wide projection already has a winner IMO (though at 14 ftL flicker should be less obvious than say 140) .

Polarization is angle dependent , spectral splitting causes color discrepancy, and both are just about twice as expensive, latter even more because ultra specialized light source that also needs to be wavelength stabilized.

Metal-O-Holic said:The interpolation plays a big part. I hate 24 signal but i love the film feeling of it. And i hate high frame rate, it totallly rapes movies.

Afaik, Trumbull solved that part too.

“It’s not just about higher frame rates,” he said of creative filmmaking. He suggested that filmmakers use what is appropriate to a given movie. “There is no one size fits all.”

But like Cameron, he emphasized the benefits of higher frame rates include reduction of strobing and sharper images.

He reported that he plans to helm a 3D feature that would be shot using his ShowScan Digital system that uses 24 fps but allows embedded 60 frames per second sequences. He has applied for a patent on the system.

I think I'd *much* prefer this scene in 60 instead of streaky 24.

#11
Posted 10/13/2017 07:53 PM   
Yes maby the case in movies is different but in home Atleast for me there is not much better. I have curved screen so hotspotting is not really a problem, pretty mild. And i could always use my 3dlut boxes To balance out the image but its pretty close but i haven't bothered yet. And i thinks a whole different thing if active flicker is not that big of annoyance for one watching. One big bonus for having 2 projectors is you always have a spare for 2D if other one fails. Though you gotta have lots of lamps. The scene. I don't like the fact how 60 makes everything so life like. Its like watching cheap soap. Might change over time though who knows. Allthough i think eventually we Are watching nothing but those
Yes maby the case in movies is different but in home Atleast for me there is not much better.
I have curved screen so hotspotting is not really a problem, pretty mild. And i could always use my 3dlut boxes
To balance out the image but its pretty close but i haven't bothered yet.
And i thinks a whole different thing if active flicker is not that big of annoyance for one watching.
One big bonus for having 2 projectors is you always have a spare for 2D if other one fails. Though you gotta have lots of lamps.

The scene.
I don't like the fact how 60 makes everything so life like. Its like watching cheap soap.
Might change over time though who knows. Allthough i think eventually we Are watching nothing but those

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#12
Posted 10/13/2017 08:10 PM   
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