Finding a visual upgrade: Going from 720P60Hz 3D to ???
1 / 5
Greetings,
After upgrading my GPU's this summer and with no viable CPU upgrade(s) currently on the market or in the near future road maps I began to look once again at my current 3D display and what options I might consider for a visual upgrade.
It would seem that until HDMI 2.0 and/or 1080P60Hz 3D is widely available and supported there are limited options.
- My first thought was to upgrade to a native 1080P display. However even Samsung has dropped the 'checkerboard' format that many use+enjoy on their newer models and finding a NIB older OBS models that support the format is rather difficult (online) to impossible to find locally.
- Next idea was to get ether a Benq W1070 or W1080ST + 2xpair of glasses or try a Ebson 5020UB or 3020 however any of these options would give me only a larger 720P 3D image to look at (and possibly less ghosting) and wonder if the difference would be worth it.
- Last but not least is the idea of a Dual-Link DVI-D to HDMI "splitter" which could offer full 1080P60Hz for both eyes. I found these:
http://www.siig.com/av-products/splitters-distribution-amplifiers/dvi/1x2-dual-link-dvi-splitter.html
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-dvi-144dl.jsp?prod_id=10202
There are a handful of companies that offer HDMI demultiplexing to multiple projectors for a brighter image but with 3DPlay limited to 1080P24Hz I'm not considering them as viable options however some of them do come with different passive 3D options which might prove interesting. I'm thinking that to get a full 1080P experience out of my 780's I'll need to use Dual-Link DVI-D.
My local "Frys" has the Benq's, projection screens and glasses in stock. Is it worth picking up a setup and giving it a test run?
After upgrading my GPU's this summer and with no viable CPU upgrade(s) currently on the market or in the near future road maps I began to look once again at my current 3D display and what options I might consider for a visual upgrade.
It would seem that until HDMI 2.0 and/or 1080P60Hz 3D is widely available and supported there are limited options.
- My first thought was to upgrade to a native 1080P display. However even Samsung has dropped the 'checkerboard' format that many use+enjoy on their newer models and finding a NIB older OBS models that support the format is rather difficult (online) to impossible to find locally.
- Next idea was to get ether a Benq W1070 or W1080ST + 2xpair of glasses or try a Ebson 5020UB or 3020 however any of these options would give me only a larger 720P 3D image to look at (and possibly less ghosting) and wonder if the difference would be worth it.
There are a handful of companies that offer HDMI demultiplexing to multiple projectors for a brighter image but with 3DPlay limited to 1080P24Hz I'm not considering them as viable options however some of them do come with different passive 3D options which might prove interesting. I'm thinking that to get a full 1080P experience out of my 780's I'll need to use Dual-Link DVI-D.
My local "Frys" has the Benq's, projection screens and glasses in stock. Is it worth picking up a setup and giving it a test run?
Be careful, Fry's typicallly charges a 15% restocking fee.
What Samsung models were you looking at, it's been said that only the 6000 and up models support Checkerboard. EDIT: 7000 and up as pointed out by Libertine
For anyone considering a Dual Passive Projection setup, I recommend reading these threads.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1299974/my-passive-polarised-dual-projector-setup
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1280393/the-ultimate-3d-projection-system-a-practical-discussion-thread
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread
Currently the only demultiplexer that I know of supporting 60 FPS per eye is from mviewtech, but would need an EDID override for 3D Vision. http://www.mviewtech.com/listen.asp?ProdId=111025104433
The others are 30 per eye as far as I know, like the GeoBox demultiplexers.
http://www.vnstw.com/en/products_view.asp?ID=105&BKID=68
The best/easiest way to do Dual Passive currently is with a AMD Radeon and TriDef.(for 60 fps per eye)
Be careful, Fry's typicallly charges a 15% restocking fee.
What Samsung models were you looking at, it's been said that only the 6000 and up models support Checkerboard. EDIT: 7000 and up as pointed out by Libertine
All the current 2013 Samsung models no longer support checkerboard. (downloaded the manuals directly from Samsung and checked)
The Mviewtech splitter looks like it would work. (the other ones I looked at don't specifically mention being able to split out L+R images to different outputs) As long as an EDID can be loaded that will fake out 3DVision to thinking its talking to a DL-DVI 3D monitor.
http://www.mviewtech.com/listen.asp?ProdId=111025104433
Pick two good/decent 1080P projectors and add a Dolby, Linear or Circular Polarized Kit from here (glasses+filters only): http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm
Plus a good 3D projection screen. This all might work.
I almost headed off to Frys but they (nor anyone else locally) have Benq compatible 3D glasses in stock. Pitty it would of given me something to play with Monday.
If I was not knee deep in Nvidia hardware, I'd consider the AMD+Tridef solution.
Thanks for the response!
All the current 2013 Samsung models no longer support checkerboard. (downloaded the manuals directly from Samsung and checked)
The Mviewtech splitter looks like it would work. (the other ones I looked at don't specifically mention being able to split out L+R images to different outputs) As long as an EDID can be loaded that will fake out 3DVision to thinking its talking to a DL-DVI 3D monitor.
http://www.mviewtech.com/listen.asp?ProdId=111025104433
Pick two good/decent 1080P projectors and add a Dolby, Linear or Circular Polarized Kit from here (glasses+filters only): http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm
Plus a good 3D projection screen. This all might work.
I almost headed off to Frys but they (nor anyone else locally) have Benq compatible 3D glasses in stock. Pitty it would of given me something to play with Monday.
If I was not knee deep in Nvidia hardware, I'd consider the AMD+Tridef solution.
MA2P202 support 3D vision out of the box. Too bad it is so expensive and it can add quite a bit of latency, i did not find any info about this.
PS. Why not buy Omega 3D filters that do not need special screen and ghosting perfomance is outstanding. There is some color difference for each eye but not an issue at least for me. Omega 3D filters can even take the heat so you can install them inside projector if needed. There are some limitations(throw ratio) and you should read that omega thread at avsforums.
MA2P202 support 3D vision out of the box. Too bad it is so expensive and it can add quite a bit of latency, i did not find any info about this.
PS. Why not buy Omega 3D filters that do not need special screen and ghosting perfomance is outstanding. There is some color difference for each eye but not an issue at least for me. Omega 3D filters can even take the heat so you can install them inside projector if needed. There are some limitations(throw ratio) and you should read that omega thread at avsforums.
The MA2P202 does not support 3D vision out of the box. The manufacturer submitted a request to Nvidia but decided not to get certification after receiving a price quote.
The nice thing with the Omega kit is that a reflective "Silver Screen" is not required.
Of course there will be some color difference for each eye with the Omega filters. It's an Anaglyph Format. But supposedly the best Anaglyph choice. I've been eyeing it myself and have been waiting for your results Jamir :)
The MA2P202 does not support 3D vision out of the box. The manufacturer submitted a request to Nvidia but decided not to get certification after receiving a price quote.
The nice thing with the Omega kit is that a reflective "Silver Screen" is not required.
Of course there will be some color difference for each eye with the Omega filters. It's an Anaglyph Format. But supposedly the best Anaglyph choice. I've been eyeing it myself and have been waiting for your results Jamir :)
[quote="D-Man11"]The MA2P202 does not support 3D vision out of the box. The manufacturer submitted a request to Nvidia but decided not to get certification after receiving a price quote.
The nice thing with the Omega kit is that a reflective "Silver Screen" is not required.
Of course there will be some color difference for each eye with the Omega filters. It's an Anaglyph Format. But supposedly the best Anaglyph choice. I've been eyeing it myself and have been waiting for your results Jamir :)
[/quote]
Mviewtech should upgrade their manual :/.
I'm building holder for filter that can be installed inside light engine from small hole on LE. Soon as i have done this i can do proper review.
D-Man11 said:The MA2P202 does not support 3D vision out of the box. The manufacturer submitted a request to Nvidia but decided not to get certification after receiving a price quote.
The nice thing with the Omega kit is that a reflective "Silver Screen" is not required.
Of course there will be some color difference for each eye with the Omega filters. It's an Anaglyph Format. But supposedly the best Anaglyph choice. I've been eyeing it myself and have been waiting for your results Jamir :)
Mviewtech should upgrade their manual :/.
I'm building holder for filter that can be installed inside light engine from small hole on LE. Soon as i have done this i can do proper review.
The Omega (and/or) Dolby do not require a special screen but the glasses cost a bit more (still much less than what I've paid in the past for Samsung active ones) and the claimed <1% ghosting is very attractive!
Considering I was contemplating the high end Epson ($2500+) I'd need to find two <$1000 projectors with DVI inputs. I'd have to re-route/work my sound as its currently being picked up via HDMI pass through. The present location of gaming PC may/would have to move to be closer to the projectors. I have room for a 70-80" screen in front of where the present TV is. Unless I decide to rewire all the sound, re-arrange my living room and put a screen on the west wall.
(off to look at whats available that is DLP, 1080P and has DVI-D inputs...)
The Omega (and/or) Dolby do not require a special screen but the glasses cost a bit more (still much less than what I've paid in the past for Samsung active ones) and the claimed <1% ghosting is very attractive!
Considering I was contemplating the high end Epson ($2500+) I'd need to find two <$1000 projectors with DVI inputs. I'd have to re-route/work my sound as its currently being picked up via HDMI pass through. The present location of gaming PC may/would have to move to be closer to the projectors. I have room for a 70-80" screen in front of where the present TV is. Unless I decide to rewire all the sound, re-arrange my living room and put a screen on the west wall.
(off to look at whats available that is DLP, 1080P and has DVI-D inputs...)
I'm not sure but I think the majority, if not all Epson projectors use 3LCD technology. You do not want that for gaming. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPZqxK7NVrM You want a DLP Projector.
As far as Dual Passive Projection Nvidia does not support it on GTX cards. It might be supported on Quadro cards, but I'm unsure. Of course it would be plausible on a GTX card with the Mviewtech demultiplexer, but I believe it runs 3K and must be bought in Asia.
The VIP 3D Evovler at $999 might work, I haven't read anything on it though. It uses HDMI and supposedly supports 1080 at 24, 30 and 60. http://media.wix.com/ugd//65810c_2a0b71fb06910de9923dbf246f184cb8.pdf
The AirFlex5D I think is a rebadged GeoBox and can be bought through Best Buy for $999.
Aligning software can be nice, but isn't necessary as long as you can get the images reasonably aligned wnen using 3D.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuEzv-6u2_Y#t=160[/url]
I'm not sure but I think the majority, if not all Epson projectors use 3LCD technology. You do not want that for gaming. You want a DLP Projector.
As far as Dual Passive Projection Nvidia does not support it on GTX cards. It might be supported on Quadro cards, but I'm unsure. Of course it would be plausible on a GTX card with the Mviewtech demultiplexer, but I believe it runs 3K and must be bought in Asia.
I checked the manual for the 2013 Samsung F8000. I think it may support checkerboard, but has a weird explanation for that mode. The 2012 manual didn't explicitly say checkerboard either that i saw. I believe it is the "pixel" 3D. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure it to go in with your computer and test it yourself with 3DTV Play. I wouldn't trust a tech support rep with a yes or a no. :/
6000 series Samsungs don't support CB i don't think. The ES6500 certainly didn't. The Bestbuy floor employee said it DID! over the phone, so i ordered one and.....no, it doesn't, grrr.
I checked the manual for the 2013 Samsung F8000. I think it may support checkerboard, but has a weird explanation for that mode. The 2012 manual didn't explicitly say checkerboard either that i saw. I believe it is the "pixel" 3D. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure it to go in with your computer and test it yourself with 3DTV Play. I wouldn't trust a tech support rep with a yes or a no. :/
6000 series Samsungs don't support CB i don't think. The ES6500 certainly didn't. The Bestbuy floor employee said it DID! over the phone, so i ordered one and.....no, it doesn't, grrr.
@Dman-11: No matter if Nvidia supports it or not as far as their card+driver is concerned it would think its attached to a approved+compatible display. Most of these splitter devices support loading custom EDID's to force compatibility.
Sadly yes, the Mviewtech splitter is $3400USD. Ouch. The other ones I've looked at don't mention splitting out the L-R signals to 2 different outputs. I'll have to email their support and see if any of the other OEM's have that feature. A $3400 price tag just for the splitter is a show stopper right now for sure.
I've read a few reviews on the Ebson's which mentioned the lag was ~50ms which may be 3-5x more than the DLP units but not unusable. However given the size of my room and my planed placement(s) of screen+projector I'll likely get the Benq 1080ST. The DLP +Short throw all around will work better.
@Libertine: I checked 6 high end LED models and as many Plasma current 2013 models. Where in the 2010/2011 7000+ manuals there always was mention of a 'checkerboard' 3D input format (if the input was renamed) there was no mention in the 12 manuals I downloaded from Samsung and looked at.
I'd still have to solve getting 5.1/7.1 sound to my amp. If I went with a single Benq 1080ST I'd have to get a HDMI A/B switch as my amp only has one HDMI output. Those that have single projectors have mentioned its still a better experience (less to no ghosting, larger image) even @ 720P than what I may be getting on my 720P native resolution 43".
Since noone local has any DLP-Link glasses I think I'll order a pair for a trial run with a 1080ST next weekend. With a larger screen I could sit further from it, thereby making use of my actual easy chair rather than the beach sandchair that seemingly lives 6' in front of my 43". :)
The question becomes, will I be able to read 720P text on a 84" screen 10' away?
@Dman-11: No matter if Nvidia supports it or not as far as their card+driver is concerned it would think its attached to a approved+compatible display. Most of these splitter devices support loading custom EDID's to force compatibility.
Sadly yes, the Mviewtech splitter is $3400USD. Ouch. The other ones I've looked at don't mention splitting out the L-R signals to 2 different outputs. I'll have to email their support and see if any of the other OEM's have that feature. A $3400 price tag just for the splitter is a show stopper right now for sure.
I've read a few reviews on the Ebson's which mentioned the lag was ~50ms which may be 3-5x more than the DLP units but not unusable. However given the size of my room and my planed placement(s) of screen+projector I'll likely get the Benq 1080ST. The DLP +Short throw all around will work better.
@Libertine: I checked 6 high end LED models and as many Plasma current 2013 models. Where in the 2010/2011 7000+ manuals there always was mention of a 'checkerboard' 3D input format (if the input was renamed) there was no mention in the 12 manuals I downloaded from Samsung and looked at.
I'd still have to solve getting 5.1/7.1 sound to my amp. If I went with a single Benq 1080ST I'd have to get a HDMI A/B switch as my amp only has one HDMI output. Those that have single projectors have mentioned its still a better experience (less to no ghosting, larger image) even @ 720P than what I may be getting on my 720P native resolution 43".
Since noone local has any DLP-Link glasses I think I'll order a pair for a trial run with a 1080ST next weekend. With a larger screen I could sit further from it, thereby making use of my actual easy chair rather than the beach sandchair that seemingly lives 6' in front of my 43". :)
The question becomes, will I be able to read 720P text on a 84" screen 10' away?
It seems to me that going with a 720p projector would be a nice bump for your current viewing setup. Your plasma is not going to support frame-sequential right? So that means you are presently using SBS or checkerboard or interleave or something- all of which are half the resolution per 60Hz frame. If you go with a 120Hz projector, you double the effective resolution per 60Hz frame, getting a true 1280x720p@60Hz.
That 2x bump in resolution would perhaps be worth it. You also get the giant 10 foot diagonal screen which is quite nice, and DLP projectors+3D Vision do have zero ghosting.
I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.
On your amplifier situation, I'd recommend going with optical digital audio to your amp. You can use a longer cable without worry, and nearly all amps support some sort of digital input. That would alleviate the need to use HDMI for the audio.
It seems to me that going with a 720p projector would be a nice bump for your current viewing setup. Your plasma is not going to support frame-sequential right? So that means you are presently using SBS or checkerboard or interleave or something- all of which are half the resolution per 60Hz frame. If you go with a 120Hz projector, you double the effective resolution per 60Hz frame, getting a true 1280x720p@60Hz.
That 2x bump in resolution would perhaps be worth it. You also get the giant 10 foot diagonal screen which is quite nice, and DLP projectors+3D Vision do have zero ghosting.
I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.
On your amplifier situation, I'd recommend going with optical digital audio to your amp. You can use a longer cable without worry, and nearly all amps support some sort of digital input. That would alleviate the need to use HDMI for the audio.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="bo3b"]I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.[/quote]
They have been making Dual Link 120Hz 1080p projectors for awhile. The problem is that they are 15-25K. I've only seen one poster (Ingmar ) saying that he is using one, but unfortunately it's not officially supported by Nvidia and must use a work around. He has a Mirage WU7-K .
IFA is this week and CEDIA is at the end of the month, perhaps something more affordable will surface (which is long overdue imo). I've been keeping my eye on the Optoma HD 91 a Laser/LED Hybrid 3D Projector that was supposed to be released this month but now has been pushed back to sometime later.
bo3b said:I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.
They have been making Dual Link 120Hz 1080p projectors for awhile. The problem is that they are 15-25K. I've only seen one poster (Ingmar ) saying that he is using one, but unfortunately it's not officially supported by Nvidia and must use a work around. He has a Mirage WU7-K .
IFA is this week and CEDIA is at the end of the month, perhaps something more affordable will surface (which is long overdue imo). I've been keeping my eye on the Optoma HD 91 a Laser/LED Hybrid 3D Projector that was supposed to be released this month but now has been pushed back to sometime later.
[quote="bo3b"]It seems to me that going with a 720p projector would be a nice bump for your current viewing setup. Your plasma is not going to support frame-sequential right? So that means you are presently using SBS or checkerboard or interleave or something- all of which are half the resolution per 60Hz frame. If you go with a 120Hz projector, you double the effective resolution per 60Hz frame, getting a true 1280x720p@60Hz.
That 2x bump in resolution would perhaps be worth it. You also get the giant 10 foot diagonal screen which is quite nice, and DLP projectors+3D Vision do have zero ghosting.
I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.
On your amplifier situation, I'd recommend going with optical digital audio to your amp. You can use a longer cable without worry, and nearly all amps support some sort of digital input. That would alleviate the need to use HDMI for the audio. [/quote]
@bo3b: Actually, I'm currently running 1280x720P SBS (120hz) so continuing to use the HDMI+3Dplay will just give me a bigger picture and some say that there may be less cross talk. Going dual projector 3DPlay-HDMI I could use different passive filters and maybe get '0' crosstalk but still would be stuck with the 720P resolution. The overwhelming limitation here is HDMI and 3DPlay (Nvidia).
I did go ahead and pick up a screen and the needed cables to run a Benq w1080ST in my living room. However I got a bit hung up on ordering glasses for the projector. I then realized that I had a pair of virtually unused 3DVision glasses and the emitter. Could I perhaps use the 3DVision glasses with the projector? (with or without the emitter?)
While the screen I got is only 77" diagonal, its 1.78x larger than what I'm presently using and maybe with the 3DVision glasses I'll get less cross talk?
All the HDMI L/R splitters are limited to what Nvidia is willing to drive that connection with. The only way to get 1080P 120Hz with Nvidia hardware it seems is to use the DL-DVI output and ether use a LCD monitor, buy into one of the approved "3DVision PRO" systems ($15K+) or somehow use a DL-DVI L/R splitter while 'faking' an approved monitor and use two projectors.
When it comes to Audio, at one time I was having so many issues with Nvidia's HDMI audio drivers I tried getting the optical/coax output on my motherboard to function without any luck. I even went so far as to getting a dedicated PCIe sound card. The best I could get at the time was a Stereo (sic) output. A show stopper when your used to the immersion of 5.1 sound. :(
bo3b said:It seems to me that going with a 720p projector would be a nice bump for your current viewing setup. Your plasma is not going to support frame-sequential right? So that means you are presently using SBS or checkerboard or interleave or something- all of which are half the resolution per 60Hz frame. If you go with a 120Hz projector, you double the effective resolution per 60Hz frame, getting a true 1280x720p@60Hz.
That 2x bump in resolution would perhaps be worth it. You also get the giant 10 foot diagonal screen which is quite nice, and DLP projectors+3D Vision do have zero ghosting.
I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.
On your amplifier situation, I'd recommend going with optical digital audio to your amp. You can use a longer cable without worry, and nearly all amps support some sort of digital input. That would alleviate the need to use HDMI for the audio.
@bo3b: Actually, I'm currently running 1280x720P SBS (120hz) so continuing to use the HDMI+3Dplay will just give me a bigger picture and some say that there may be less cross talk. Going dual projector 3DPlay-HDMI I could use different passive filters and maybe get '0' crosstalk but still would be stuck with the 720P resolution. The overwhelming limitation here is HDMI and 3DPlay (Nvidia).
I did go ahead and pick up a screen and the needed cables to run a Benq w1080ST in my living room. However I got a bit hung up on ordering glasses for the projector. I then realized that I had a pair of virtually unused 3DVision glasses and the emitter. Could I perhaps use the 3DVision glasses with the projector? (with or without the emitter?)
While the screen I got is only 77" diagonal, its 1.78x larger than what I'm presently using and maybe with the 3DVision glasses I'll get less cross talk?
All the HDMI L/R splitters are limited to what Nvidia is willing to drive that connection with. The only way to get 1080P 120Hz with Nvidia hardware it seems is to use the DL-DVI output and ether use a LCD monitor, buy into one of the approved "3DVision PRO" systems ($15K+) or somehow use a DL-DVI L/R splitter while 'faking' an approved monitor and use two projectors.
When it comes to Audio, at one time I was having so many issues with Nvidia's HDMI audio drivers I tried getting the optical/coax output on my motherboard to function without any luck. I even went so far as to getting a dedicated PCIe sound card. The best I could get at the time was a Stereo (sic) output. A show stopper when your used to the immersion of 5.1 sound. :(
[quote="mbloof"]I then realized that I had a pair of virtually unused 3DVision glasses and the emitter. Could I perhaps use the 3DVision glasses with the projector? (with or without the emitter?)[/quote]
Without the emiiter=No, Nvidia's glasses only work in tandem with the USB drivers and emitter.
You can use the emitter and glasses with the projector by spoofing a supported projector's EDID.
http://panam.acer.com/acerpanam/monitor/0000/Acer/AC501/AC501faq10.shtml
mbloof said:I then realized that I had a pair of virtually unused 3DVision glasses and the emitter. Could I perhaps use the 3DVision glasses with the projector? (with or without the emitter?)
Without the emiiter=No, Nvidia's glasses only work in tandem with the USB drivers and emitter.
You can use the emitter and glasses with the projector by spoofing a supported projector's EDID.
After upgrading my GPU's this summer and with no viable CPU upgrade(s) currently on the market or in the near future road maps I began to look once again at my current 3D display and what options I might consider for a visual upgrade.
It would seem that until HDMI 2.0 and/or 1080P60Hz 3D is widely available and supported there are limited options.
- My first thought was to upgrade to a native 1080P display. However even Samsung has dropped the 'checkerboard' format that many use+enjoy on their newer models and finding a NIB older OBS models that support the format is rather difficult (online) to impossible to find locally.
- Next idea was to get ether a Benq W1070 or W1080ST + 2xpair of glasses or try a Ebson 5020UB or 3020 however any of these options would give me only a larger 720P 3D image to look at (and possibly less ghosting) and wonder if the difference would be worth it.
- Last but not least is the idea of a Dual-Link DVI-D to HDMI "splitter" which could offer full 1080P60Hz for both eyes. I found these:
http://www.siig.com/av-products/splitters-distribution-amplifiers/dvi/1x2-dual-link-dvi-splitter.html
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-dvi-144dl.jsp?prod_id=10202
There are a handful of companies that offer HDMI demultiplexing to multiple projectors for a brighter image but with 3DPlay limited to 1080P24Hz I'm not considering them as viable options however some of them do come with different passive 3D options which might prove interesting. I'm thinking that to get a full 1080P experience out of my 780's I'll need to use Dual-Link DVI-D.
My local "Frys" has the Benq's, projection screens and glasses in stock. Is it worth picking up a setup and giving it a test run?
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"
What Samsung models were you looking at, it's been said that only the 6000 and up models support Checkerboard. EDIT: 7000 and up as pointed out by Libertine
For anyone considering a Dual Passive Projection setup, I recommend reading these threads.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1299974/my-passive-polarised-dual-projector-setup
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1280393/the-ultimate-3d-projection-system-a-practical-discussion-thread
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread
Currently the only demultiplexer that I know of supporting 60 FPS per eye is from mviewtech, but would need an EDID override for 3D Vision. http://www.mviewtech.com/listen.asp?ProdId=111025104433
The others are 30 per eye as far as I know, like the GeoBox demultiplexers.
http://www.vnstw.com/en/products_view.asp?ID=105&BKID=68
The best/easiest way to do Dual Passive currently is with a AMD Radeon and TriDef.(for 60 fps per eye)
The Mviewtech splitter looks like it would work. (the other ones I looked at don't specifically mention being able to split out L+R images to different outputs) As long as an EDID can be loaded that will fake out 3DVision to thinking its talking to a DL-DVI 3D monitor.
http://www.mviewtech.com/listen.asp?ProdId=111025104433
Pick two good/decent 1080P projectors and add a Dolby, Linear or Circular Polarized Kit from here (glasses+filters only): http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm
Plus a good 3D projection screen. This all might work.
I almost headed off to Frys but they (nor anyone else locally) have Benq compatible 3D glasses in stock. Pitty it would of given me something to play with Monday.
If I was not knee deep in Nvidia hardware, I'd consider the AMD+Tridef solution.
Thanks for the response!
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"
PS. Why not buy Omega 3D filters that do not need special screen and ghosting perfomance is outstanding. There is some color difference for each eye but not an issue at least for me. Omega 3D filters can even take the heat so you can install them inside projector if needed. There are some limitations(throw ratio) and you should read that omega thread at avsforums.
The nice thing with the Omega kit is that a reflective "Silver Screen" is not required.
Of course there will be some color difference for each eye with the Omega filters. It's an Anaglyph Format. But supposedly the best Anaglyph choice. I've been eyeing it myself and have been waiting for your results Jamir :)
Mviewtech should upgrade their manual :/.
I'm building holder for filter that can be installed inside light engine from small hole on LE. Soon as i have done this i can do proper review.
Considering I was contemplating the high end Epson ($2500+) I'd need to find two <$1000 projectors with DVI inputs. I'd have to re-route/work my sound as its currently being picked up via HDMI pass through. The present location of gaming PC may/would have to move to be closer to the projectors. I have room for a 70-80" screen in front of where the present TV is. Unless I decide to rewire all the sound, re-arrange my living room and put a screen on the west wall.
(off to look at whats available that is DLP, 1080P and has DVI-D inputs...)
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"
As far as Dual Passive Projection Nvidia does not support it on GTX cards. It might be supported on Quadro cards, but I'm unsure. Of course it would be plausible on a GTX card with the Mviewtech demultiplexer, but I believe it runs 3K and must be bought in Asia.
The VIP 3D Evovler at $999 might work, I haven't read anything on it though. It uses HDMI and supposedly supports 1080 at 24, 30 and 60. http://media.wix.com/ugd//65810c_2a0b71fb06910de9923dbf246f184cb8.pdf
The AirFlex5D I think is a rebadged GeoBox and can be bought through Best Buy for $999.
Aligning software can be nice, but isn't necessary as long as you can get the images reasonably aligned wnen using 3D.
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6000 series Samsungs don't support CB i don't think. The ES6500 certainly didn't. The Bestbuy floor employee said it DID! over the phone, so i ordered one and.....no, it doesn't, grrr.
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Sadly yes, the Mviewtech splitter is $3400USD. Ouch. The other ones I've looked at don't mention splitting out the L-R signals to 2 different outputs. I'll have to email their support and see if any of the other OEM's have that feature. A $3400 price tag just for the splitter is a show stopper right now for sure.
I've read a few reviews on the Ebson's which mentioned the lag was ~50ms which may be 3-5x more than the DLP units but not unusable. However given the size of my room and my planed placement(s) of screen+projector I'll likely get the Benq 1080ST. The DLP +Short throw all around will work better.
@Libertine: I checked 6 high end LED models and as many Plasma current 2013 models. Where in the 2010/2011 7000+ manuals there always was mention of a 'checkerboard' 3D input format (if the input was renamed) there was no mention in the 12 manuals I downloaded from Samsung and looked at.
I'd still have to solve getting 5.1/7.1 sound to my amp. If I went with a single Benq 1080ST I'd have to get a HDMI A/B switch as my amp only has one HDMI output. Those that have single projectors have mentioned its still a better experience (less to no ghosting, larger image) even @ 720P than what I may be getting on my 720P native resolution 43".
Since noone local has any DLP-Link glasses I think I'll order a pair for a trial run with a 1080ST next weekend. With a larger screen I could sit further from it, thereby making use of my actual easy chair rather than the beach sandchair that seemingly lives 6' in front of my 43". :)
The question becomes, will I be able to read 720P text on a 84" screen 10' away?
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"
That 2x bump in resolution would perhaps be worth it. You also get the giant 10 foot diagonal screen which is quite nice, and DLP projectors+3D Vision do have zero ghosting.
I think we would all be interested in 1080p projector at 120Hz, but so far no manufacturer has enough brains to figure out that dual-DVI would work.
On your amplifier situation, I'd recommend going with optical digital audio to your amp. You can use a longer cable without worry, and nearly all amps support some sort of digital input. That would alleviate the need to use HDMI for the audio.
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They have been making Dual Link 120Hz 1080p projectors for awhile. The problem is that they are 15-25K. I've only seen one poster (Ingmar ) saying that he is using one, but unfortunately it's not officially supported by Nvidia and must use a work around. He has a Mirage WU7-K .
IFA is this week and CEDIA is at the end of the month, perhaps something more affordable will surface (which is long overdue imo). I've been keeping my eye on the Optoma HD 91 a Laser/LED Hybrid 3D Projector that was supposed to be released this month but now has been pushed back to sometime later.
@bo3b: Actually, I'm currently running 1280x720P SBS (120hz) so continuing to use the HDMI+3Dplay will just give me a bigger picture and some say that there may be less cross talk. Going dual projector 3DPlay-HDMI I could use different passive filters and maybe get '0' crosstalk but still would be stuck with the 720P resolution. The overwhelming limitation here is HDMI and 3DPlay (Nvidia).
I did go ahead and pick up a screen and the needed cables to run a Benq w1080ST in my living room. However I got a bit hung up on ordering glasses for the projector. I then realized that I had a pair of virtually unused 3DVision glasses and the emitter. Could I perhaps use the 3DVision glasses with the projector? (with or without the emitter?)
While the screen I got is only 77" diagonal, its 1.78x larger than what I'm presently using and maybe with the 3DVision glasses I'll get less cross talk?
All the HDMI L/R splitters are limited to what Nvidia is willing to drive that connection with. The only way to get 1080P 120Hz with Nvidia hardware it seems is to use the DL-DVI output and ether use a LCD monitor, buy into one of the approved "3DVision PRO" systems ($15K+) or somehow use a DL-DVI L/R splitter while 'faking' an approved monitor and use two projectors.
When it comes to Audio, at one time I was having so many issues with Nvidia's HDMI audio drivers I tried getting the optical/coax output on my motherboard to function without any luck. I even went so far as to getting a dedicated PCIe sound card. The best I could get at the time was a Stereo (sic) output. A show stopper when your used to the immersion of 5.1 sound. :(
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"
Without the emiiter=No, Nvidia's glasses only work in tandem with the USB drivers and emitter.
You can use the emitter and glasses with the projector by spoofing a supported projector's EDID.
http://panam.acer.com/acerpanam/monitor/0000/Acer/AC501/AC501faq10.shtml