Why are many 'professional' gaming reviewers anti S3D?
  3 / 3    
[quote name='Heedless_onE' date='28 April 2011 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1304040651' post='1231479']

To the amount of gamers Nvidia would need to get 3D mainstream, yes it is actually. lol. Most people, especially on these forums, but more specifically, in this subdivision, 3D gamers, think that everyone is computer literate...they are not. Most gamers couldn't tell you what socket processor they are running, or what graphics card they own let alone research, purchase and set up the correct equipment for a 3D rig.

[/quote]

You do have a good point. Playing WoW and LOTRO over the years, and conversing with many people in Ventrilo and Teamspeak, I was suprised how many, when they have computer problems, knew nothing about their systems. Troubleshooting someones computer over voice is not fun either.

But I maintain 3D is pretty cool if one is willing to do some research and accept that it is a complex and imperfect technology. Other than needing more graphics horsepower and monitor refresh rate, the system requirements for 3D are not terribly higher than any system you would need if you desire to play a modern game with settings on high detail.

Hopefully Nvidia will make enough profit on their 3D system to keep it around and improve on it for those of us who enjoy the "gimmick".
[quote name='Heedless_onE' date='28 April 2011 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1304040651' post='1231479']



To the amount of gamers Nvidia would need to get 3D mainstream, yes it is actually. lol. Most people, especially on these forums, but more specifically, in this subdivision, 3D gamers, think that everyone is computer literate...they are not. Most gamers couldn't tell you what socket processor they are running, or what graphics card they own let alone research, purchase and set up the correct equipment for a 3D rig.







You do have a good point. Playing WoW and LOTRO over the years, and conversing with many people in Ventrilo and Teamspeak, I was suprised how many, when they have computer problems, knew nothing about their systems. Troubleshooting someones computer over voice is not fun either.



But I maintain 3D is pretty cool if one is willing to do some research and accept that it is a complex and imperfect technology. Other than needing more graphics horsepower and monitor refresh rate, the system requirements for 3D are not terribly higher than any system you would need if you desire to play a modern game with settings on high detail.



Hopefully Nvidia will make enough profit on their 3D system to keep it around and improve on it for those of us who enjoy the "gimmick".

GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD7-B3 with I7 2600K

8 gigs G.Skill RipJaw memory

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro Gold 1000W PSU

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Crucial RealSSD C300 128 GB SSD

3 Western Digital 7200 RPM Sata drives

Two MSI N560GTX-TI Twin Frozr II/OC in SLI

Asus VG236H 23" Monitor

Nvidia 3d Glasses

#31
Posted 04/29/2011 12:22 PM   
[quote name='IC3D' date='29 April 2011 - 06:53 AM' timestamp='1304074386' post='1231593']
3D and 3D gaming has its issues like any other consumer product i suppose, but the experience differs from user to user. Like it or don't?. I like the fact nvidia offer the options of 3D,, physX, most games are generally supported by nvidia. No force is applied to play in 3D and you can switch to 2D at any time in game. I changed from iz3d to nvidia, but i do prefer the nvidia 3d package and support. I'm sure the technology will advance and the price may go down?.
[/quote]
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='29 April 2011 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1304075663' post='1231597']
From my own experience I have found gamers on PC have some passively learnt technical knowledge just by being PC gamers e.g. at the very least exploring the graphics settings menu. This is even more true for any pc gamer who has upgraded their machine. Think about the minimum technical know-how needed to simply upgrade a graphics card.

You are a consumer and have your opinions which you are voicing on this forum. This is fair dinkums because unlike profession reviewers people can can respond. Also you seem clued up unlike the writer of the article in PC Gamer. It frustrated me because it was so obviously net reseaerched. Left 4 Dead, Burnout Paradise, WoW it even talks about a single crosshair in B:BC2! Plus a good chunk of the article was about the ups and downs of cinema 3D. This is totally different to gaming 3D which reading MTBS3D has been on the steady increase since the spectrum (I think) or something. It did mentioned nVidia's involvement but that was it.

I shew SC2 to my father. What suprised me was that despite not being a gamer, my father said he was quick to dismiss cinema 3D as gimicky (something about using popout which is probably a throw back to early cinema) but didnt think 3D computer games were and saw them as different entities. If my fuddy, 70 this year old father could see the difference, why cant the reviewers?
[/quote]
[quote name='Yankee' date='29 April 2011 - 08:22 AM' timestamp='1304079746' post='1231619']
You do have a good point. Playing WoW and LOTRO over the years, and conversing with many people in Ventrilo and Teamspeak, I was suprised how many, when they have computer problems, knew nothing about their systems. Troubleshooting someones computer over voice is not fun either.

But I maintain 3D is pretty cool if one is willing to do some research and accept that it is a complex and imperfect technology. Other than needing more graphics horsepower and monitor refresh rate, the system requirements for 3D are not terribly higher than any system you would need if you desire to play a modern game with settings on high detail.

Hopefully Nvidia will make enough profit on their 3D system to keep it around and improve on it for those of us who enjoy the "gimmick".
[/quote]
Thanks for the compliment buddy.

Though, i personally do not like this 3D thing that's going around, i'm sure anyone coming to this forum and is able to maintain an intelligent conversation like you three are perfectly able to get their rigs working just fine. And i'm sure those who do like their 3D, are enjoying the experience very much, but in regards to the original question as to why professional enthusiasts are hard on 3D, like i say, there are too many complications, and also cost. That is all. Things like that really have to be plug and play or they will always be niche. That's why console gaming has stolen the gaming industry away from us; you pop in a disk, press play, and the game's guaranteed to work, and you're gaming with decent enough graphics for a $300 console.


[quote name='IC3D' date='29 April 2011 - 06:53 AM' timestamp='1304074386' post='1231593']

3D and 3D gaming has its issues like any other consumer product i suppose, but the experience differs from user to user. Like it or don't?. I like the fact nvidia offer the options of 3D,, physX, most games are generally supported by nvidia. No force is applied to play in 3D and you can switch to 2D at any time in game. I changed from iz3d to nvidia, but i do prefer the nvidia 3d package and support. I'm sure the technology will advance and the price may go down?.



[quote name='andysonofbob' date='29 April 2011 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1304075663' post='1231597']

From my own experience I have found gamers on PC have some passively learnt technical knowledge just by being PC gamers e.g. at the very least exploring the graphics settings menu. This is even more true for any pc gamer who has upgraded their machine. Think about the minimum technical know-how needed to simply upgrade a graphics card.



You are a consumer and have your opinions which you are voicing on this forum. This is fair dinkums because unlike profession reviewers people can can respond. Also you seem clued up unlike the writer of the article in PC Gamer. It frustrated me because it was so obviously net reseaerched. Left 4 Dead, Burnout Paradise, WoW it even talks about a single crosshair in B:BC2! Plus a good chunk of the article was about the ups and downs of cinema 3D. This is totally different to gaming 3D which reading MTBS3D has been on the steady increase since the spectrum (I think) or something. It did mentioned nVidia's involvement but that was it.



I shew SC2 to my father. What suprised me was that despite not being a gamer, my father said he was quick to dismiss cinema 3D as gimicky (something about using popout which is probably a throw back to early cinema) but didnt think 3D computer games were and saw them as different entities. If my fuddy, 70 this year old father could see the difference, why cant the reviewers?



[quote name='Yankee' date='29 April 2011 - 08:22 AM' timestamp='1304079746' post='1231619']

You do have a good point. Playing WoW and LOTRO over the years, and conversing with many people in Ventrilo and Teamspeak, I was suprised how many, when they have computer problems, knew nothing about their systems. Troubleshooting someones computer over voice is not fun either.



But I maintain 3D is pretty cool if one is willing to do some research and accept that it is a complex and imperfect technology. Other than needing more graphics horsepower and monitor refresh rate, the system requirements for 3D are not terribly higher than any system you would need if you desire to play a modern game with settings on high detail.



Hopefully Nvidia will make enough profit on their 3D system to keep it around and improve on it for those of us who enjoy the "gimmick".



Thanks for the compliment buddy.



Though, i personally do not like this 3D thing that's going around, i'm sure anyone coming to this forum and is able to maintain an intelligent conversation like you three are perfectly able to get their rigs working just fine. And i'm sure those who do like their 3D, are enjoying the experience very much, but in regards to the original question as to why professional enthusiasts are hard on 3D, like i say, there are too many complications, and also cost. That is all. Things like that really have to be plug and play or they will always be niche. That's why console gaming has stolen the gaming industry away from us; you pop in a disk, press play, and the game's guaranteed to work, and you're gaming with decent enough graphics for a $300 console.




[quote name='Zloth' date='29 April 2011 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1304038967' post='1231469']
Oh, I've got the USA version. I wish I hadn't thrown it out so I could see the article again! Ah well.

Saijan Prince, have you ever read PC Gamer before!?
[/quote]

The last time I read it was around the release of the 9800GX2 and I was disgusted to see that they were busy telling people the 9800GX2 was actually 2x 9800GTX in SLI, which it is not, it is/was 2x 8800GT's in SLI on the same PCB.

It was around that time I decided not to waste any more money on such inaccurate tech journalism.

If they can get something as simple as that wrong, and categorically state it as a fact.....who knows what else is misleading and inaccurate.

I agree with whoever said there is a difference between not wanting something cause its bad, and not wanting something cause you cannot afford it. I know I cannot afford a 3D Vision setup right now that will meet my expectations of performance and visual quality, so I do not bother with it, but, from what I have seen of 3D vision in discover mode, its freaking intense! and is totally the next logical step in gaming evolution.

Just needs to be more affordable, which it will become eventually.
[quote name='Zloth' date='29 April 2011 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1304038967' post='1231469']

Oh, I've got the USA version. I wish I hadn't thrown it out so I could see the article again! Ah well.



Saijan Prince, have you ever read PC Gamer before!?





The last time I read it was around the release of the 9800GX2 and I was disgusted to see that they were busy telling people the 9800GX2 was actually 2x 9800GTX in SLI, which it is not, it is/was 2x 8800GT's in SLI on the same PCB.



It was around that time I decided not to waste any more money on such inaccurate tech journalism.



If they can get something as simple as that wrong, and categorically state it as a fact.....who knows what else is misleading and inaccurate.



I agree with whoever said there is a difference between not wanting something cause its bad, and not wanting something cause you cannot afford it. I know I cannot afford a 3D Vision setup right now that will meet my expectations of performance and visual quality, so I do not bother with it, but, from what I have seen of 3D vision in discover mode, its freaking intense! and is totally the next logical step in gaming evolution.



Just needs to be more affordable, which it will become eventually.

CPU: Core i7 930 @ 4.20ghz 1.3v cooled by Antec Kuhler 920

MOBO: Asus P6X58D Premium

GFX: 2x Asus GTX 560Ti Direct CUII @ 900mhz Core 2200mhz Memory

RAM: Corsair CMG6GX3M3A1600C7 6gb 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 2t

PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower 850 watt

CASE: Antec 1200

APU: X-fi Titanium Fatality SPEAKERS: Logitech X-530 5.1

HDD: 1x OCZ Agility 3 60gb SSD GAMES 2x Western Digital Caviar Black 500gb in RAID 0

DISPLAY: Acer H243HX 24" @ 1920x1080 Resolution

KEYBOARD: Logitech G19 MOUSE: Logitech G5 WHEEL Logitech G25 JOYSTICK Logitech G940

OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows 7 Ultimate x64 RTM

#33
Posted 05/01/2011 10:41 PM   
In answer to OP's question, they fear what they do not understand. Hell, most of the people hating on 3D stereo have never even used it. Then when they do use it, there are a myriad of technical glitches, bad compatibility, tv whitelists that block the competition's sets, etc...

Stereo 3D is a minefield right now, and don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise. You need to be able to keep track of whether your tv works with Nvidia, whether it works with ATI, what driver is best, whether your game supports DX or OGL, if there's a profile for it, what connection method you should use, what resolution or type of 3D, and on and on.

The average consumer is not the guy who was buying resistors at radio shack for his ham radio in the 80's. The average consumer is a moron only one step above homer simpson. I know, I've worked there. They want to go to Best Buy, buy the glasses, buy the tv, plug the computer in, and magically see 3D.

I've been doing this since 2001 and I can tell you that it has gotten better, but not by much. Part of it is Nvidia's fault and part of it just the technology itself. Direct-X and modern rendering techniques do not lend themselves to 3D stereo well at all. You get crosshairs at the wrong depth, shadows popping out and flickering, and near objects being doubled. This is not new, these problems existed with the earliest 3D stereo drivers, and they still exist. Some of them are technical issues, some are oversights on the developers part, and some are just plain lazy programming. I realize that Nvidia is trying to sort these problems out, but you have to treat the cause and not the result. Otherwise your just following along someone who is hammering nails sideways while you try to straighten them out.

The solution is a good, solid set of standards that define exactly what we will be seeing and how we will be seeing it. I noticed that the other day Nvidia is going to allow SLI on ATI motherboards. Will we see the same with 3D?
In answer to OP's question, they fear what they do not understand. Hell, most of the people hating on 3D stereo have never even used it. Then when they do use it, there are a myriad of technical glitches, bad compatibility, tv whitelists that block the competition's sets, etc...



Stereo 3D is a minefield right now, and don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise. You need to be able to keep track of whether your tv works with Nvidia, whether it works with ATI, what driver is best, whether your game supports DX or OGL, if there's a profile for it, what connection method you should use, what resolution or type of 3D, and on and on.



The average consumer is not the guy who was buying resistors at radio shack for his ham radio in the 80's. The average consumer is a moron only one step above homer simpson. I know, I've worked there. They want to go to Best Buy, buy the glasses, buy the tv, plug the computer in, and magically see 3D.



I've been doing this since 2001 and I can tell you that it has gotten better, but not by much. Part of it is Nvidia's fault and part of it just the technology itself. Direct-X and modern rendering techniques do not lend themselves to 3D stereo well at all. You get crosshairs at the wrong depth, shadows popping out and flickering, and near objects being doubled. This is not new, these problems existed with the earliest 3D stereo drivers, and they still exist. Some of them are technical issues, some are oversights on the developers part, and some are just plain lazy programming. I realize that Nvidia is trying to sort these problems out, but you have to treat the cause and not the result. Otherwise your just following along someone who is hammering nails sideways while you try to straighten them out.



The solution is a good, solid set of standards that define exactly what we will be seeing and how we will be seeing it. I noticed that the other day Nvidia is going to allow SLI on ATI motherboards. Will we see the same with 3D?

AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision

#34
Posted 05/02/2011 02:20 AM   
[quote name='Saijan Prince.' date='01 May 2011 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1304289662' post='1232442']
Just needs to be more affordable, which it will become eventually.
[/quote]

Yes money is always a factor. I was fortunate enough at the time to be able to save £1 a day for a year to get my set up. I couldn't do that now with kid #2!

BUT they seem happy to favourably review gaming keyboards which can cost well over a tonne - I think one of them was over £150! Surely there's an inconsistency there with regard to perceived value for money? Comparing like for like: although the absolute cheapest 22" monitor I could find was £88 (defo non gaming with its horrid response time!) a reasonable 22" monitor which you could play games on starts around the £110 for a basic. I wonder how these reviewers score those multitude of monitors out there in the £250 when for £310 you get a quality 22" monitor PLUS all you need for 3D!
[quote name='Saijan Prince.' date='01 May 2011 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1304289662' post='1232442']

Just needs to be more affordable, which it will become eventually.





Yes money is always a factor. I was fortunate enough at the time to be able to save £1 a day for a year to get my set up. I couldn't do that now with kid #2!



BUT they seem happy to favourably review gaming keyboards which can cost well over a tonne - I think one of them was over £150! Surely there's an inconsistency there with regard to perceived value for money? Comparing like for like: although the absolute cheapest 22" monitor I could find was £88 (defo non gaming with its horrid response time!) a reasonable 22" monitor which you could play games on starts around the £110 for a basic. I wonder how these reviewers score those multitude of monitors out there in the £250 when for £310 you get a quality 22" monitor PLUS all you need for 3D!

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#35
Posted 05/02/2011 08:31 AM   
All I know is I just finished playing the entire Battlefield: Bad Company 2 campaign in 3D, and it was simply amazing to look at. Played for hours at a time with no crashes or problems. I am hooked.
All I know is I just finished playing the entire Battlefield: Bad Company 2 campaign in 3D, and it was simply amazing to look at. Played for hours at a time with no crashes or problems. I am hooked.

GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD7-B3 with I7 2600K

8 gigs G.Skill RipJaw memory

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro Gold 1000W PSU

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Crucial RealSSD C300 128 GB SSD

3 Western Digital 7200 RPM Sata drives

Two MSI N560GTX-TI Twin Frozr II/OC in SLI

Asus VG236H 23" Monitor

Nvidia 3d Glasses

#36
Posted 05/02/2011 03:21 PM   
FYI to whoever posted "I'm running Metro 2033 on Very High DX9"... ummm... yeah, lemme explain something to you:

Most of the effects set by "Very High" are DX11 only. Meaning, by setting it to DX9, you are disabling most of the eye candy in the game, despite setting "Very High" since you graphics card is incapable of running DX11 anyway. This is why your able to run it so well... you now here near "maxed out" in that game. Nowhere. Near.
FYI to whoever posted "I'm running Metro 2033 on Very High DX9"... ummm... yeah, lemme explain something to you:



Most of the effects set by "Very High" are DX11 only. Meaning, by setting it to DX9, you are disabling most of the eye candy in the game, despite setting "Very High" since you graphics card is incapable of running DX11 anyway. This is why your able to run it so well... you now here near "maxed out" in that game. Nowhere. Near.

CPU: i7 3930k @ 4.2GHz 1.21V ~ Motherboard: Asus RoG Rampage IV Extreme
RAM: G.Skill Sniper Gaming Series (4x4GB @ 2133MHz, 9-11-10-28-2T 1.65V)
GPUs: 1x R9 280X Vapor-X (Games/F@H), 1x R9 290 Core Edition (F@H), 1x R9 290X Core Edition (F@H)
PSU: LEPA G 1600W (Hate it, don't buy it) ~ Case: Enermax Fulmo GT
SSDs/HDDs: Corsair Force3 240GB, Corsair Force3 90GB, 1x Seagate Momentus XT 750GB
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate ~ Display: Sony Bravia 52" LED LCD HDTV
Laptops: Alienware M18x (2013, GTX 560M SLi) & Alienware M14x (2014, GTX 765M)

#37
Posted 05/02/2011 04:05 PM   
[quote name='Goddess84' date='02 May 2011 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1304352359' post='1232666']
FYI to whoever posted "I'm running Metro 2033 on Very High DX9"... ummm... yeah, lemme explain something to you:

Most of the effects set by "Very High" are DX11 only. Meaning, by setting it to DX9, you are disabling most of the eye candy in the game, despite setting "Very High" since you graphics card is incapable of running DX11 anyway. This is why your able to run it so well... you now here near "maxed out" in that game. Nowhere. Near.
[/quote]

I disagree. I was now where near the lowest possible framerate, ill give you that. As far as image quality, i [b]was[/b] near maxed out, settings wise, based on the many comparison shots i looked at and all the tinkering i did. Of course, i was at 1280x720 though, as mentioned. As far as dx11 options,tesselation and advanced depth of field are the only options not available to me and i didn't miss them based on the comparison screenshots. I was able to enable the very kick ass global illumination setting via the .ini file and i also increase my FOV to 65, rendering more of the world./pirate.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pirate:' />

What chew got nows, Mrs. condescending, i mean Goddess84./smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />
[quote name='Goddess84' date='02 May 2011 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1304352359' post='1232666']

FYI to whoever posted "I'm running Metro 2033 on Very High DX9"... ummm... yeah, lemme explain something to you:



Most of the effects set by "Very High" are DX11 only. Meaning, by setting it to DX9, you are disabling most of the eye candy in the game, despite setting "Very High" since you graphics card is incapable of running DX11 anyway. This is why your able to run it so well... you now here near "maxed out" in that game. Nowhere. Near.





I disagree. I was now where near the lowest possible framerate, ill give you that. As far as image quality, i was near maxed out, settings wise, based on the many comparison shots i looked at and all the tinkering i did. Of course, i was at 1280x720 though, as mentioned. As far as dx11 options,tesselation and advanced depth of field are the only options not available to me and i didn't miss them based on the comparison screenshots. I was able to enable the very kick ass global illumination setting via the .ini file and i also increase my FOV to 65, rendering more of the world./pirate.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pirate:' />



What chew got nows, Mrs. condescending, i mean Goddess84./smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#38
Posted 05/02/2011 05:04 PM   
  3 / 3    
Scroll To Top