Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?[/quote]
I see no ghosting whatsoever, with or without the glasses. What I think people may actually be seeing is 3d artifacts in games that aren't 100% compatible with an "Excellent" rating from nVidia -- for example, in Mirror's Edge the shadows do weird things that some people might interpret as ghosting, but is really just a graphical incompatibility. In my experience, there is no ghosting whatsoever in games that are rated "Excellent" for full 3d Vision compatibility (*note: Mirror's Edge seems to be rated "Excellent" according to the compatibility page, but my system says it's "Good" only...not sure what that's about).
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?
I see no ghosting whatsoever, with or without the glasses. What I think people may actually be seeing is 3d artifacts in games that aren't 100% compatible with an "Excellent" rating from nVidia -- for example, in Mirror's Edge the shadows do weird things that some people might interpret as ghosting, but is really just a graphical incompatibility. In my experience, there is no ghosting whatsoever in games that are rated "Excellent" for full 3d Vision compatibility (*note: Mirror's Edge seems to be rated "Excellent" according to the compatibility page, but my system says it's "Good" only...not sure what that's about).
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='535401' date='Apr 28 2009, 03:51 PM']I see no ghosting whatsoever, with or without the glasses. What I think people may actually be seeing is 3d artifacts in games that aren't 100% compatible with an "Excellent" rating from nVidia -- for example, in Mirror's Edge the shadows do weird things that some people might interpret as ghosting, but is really just a graphical incompatibility. In my experience, there is no ghosting whatsoever in games that are rated "Excellent" for full 3d Vision compatibility (*note: Mirror's Edge seems to be rated "Excellent" according to the compatibility page, but my system says it's "Good" only...not sure what that's about).
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).[/quote]
Hi and thanks for taking the time to answer!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appricated your indept answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='535401' date='Apr 28 2009, 03:51 PM']I see no ghosting whatsoever, with or without the glasses. What I think people may actually be seeing is 3d artifacts in games that aren't 100% compatible with an "Excellent" rating from nVidia -- for example, in Mirror's Edge the shadows do weird things that some people might interpret as ghosting, but is really just a graphical incompatibility. In my experience, there is no ghosting whatsoever in games that are rated "Excellent" for full 3d Vision compatibility (*note: Mirror's Edge seems to be rated "Excellent" according to the compatibility page, but my system says it's "Good" only...not sure what that's about).
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).
Hi and thanks for taking the time to answer!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appricated your indept answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)
Sorry, but I think the monitor is fully involved in the ghosting issues. I did a lot of experimenting with this and the monitor seems to be the culprit in most instances ... specifically, the top to bottom scan time.
Sorry, but I think the monitor is fully involved in the ghosting issues. I did a lot of experimenting with this and the monitor seems to be the culprit in most instances ... specifically, the top to bottom scan time.
[quote name='PixelPerfect' post='535462' date='Apr 28 2009, 05:30 PM']Hi and thanks for taking the time to answer!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appritiated your indepht answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)[/quote]
[quote name='PixelPerfect' post='535462' date='Apr 28 2009, 05:30 PM']Hi and thanks for taking the time to answer!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appritiated your indepht answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)
[quote name='ndlrjajdlfo' post='536066' date='Apr 30 2009, 03:50 AM']Don`t worry
GTX 285 is enough to play most games
i have GTX285
it makes me happy![/quote]
Thanks and as you said I think it will be plenty, I run the games at 1920*1200 now so running 1680*1050 X2 wont stress it that muh more and nVidia said that they can optimize it plenty in the upcoming games so the load should not be as much as render it X2 and then later in the year the GTX 300 series will arrive with DX11 support and a whole new paradigm will begin again with nVidia being the innovators. I just cant praise nVidia enough. I just love em plain and simple.
First they gave us PhysX and now they give us 3D vision.!
Thanks and as you said I think it will be plenty, I run the games at 1920*1200 now so running 1680*1050 X2 wont stress it that muh more and nVidia said that they can optimize it plenty in the upcoming games so the load should not be as much as render it X2 and then later in the year the GTX 300 series will arrive with DX11 support and a whole new paradigm will begin again with nVidia being the innovators. I just cant praise nVidia enough. I just love em plain and simple.
First they gave us PhysX and now they give us 3D vision.!
Quoting new_parad1gm from the Thread "Samsung 2233RZ vs. Zalman ZM-M220W"
[quote]The Samsung 2233RZ is a true 120Hz monitor, so it will be able to provide full resolution to each eye at 60Hz. As for the ghosting issues, some people are more sensitive to it than others, and it also depends on several factors like how long the monitor has been on (time for it to warm up), which refresh rate you are running at, and your depth and convergence settings. Unfortunately, there will probably be some ghosting no matter what, as it is the nature of the technology (the glasses do not fully go opaque when shuttering, and the shuttering cannot perfectly match the refresh rate of the monitor). But for some of the games I've tried, I don't see ghosting at all (Left 4 Dead), while other games the ghosting is especially noticeable (Mirror's Edge), so it also varies from game to game.[/quote]
The link to that thread is [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t92328.html"]here[/url]
[url="http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6094"]http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6094[/url]
[quote]For optimal stereoscopic 3D image quality, when using a pure 120 Hz LCD, please allow your monitor to warm up. This warm-up period is normal behavior for LCD monitors.[/quote]
And for more [url="http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5636041/description.html"]detailed technical reasons[/url]
Sorry, should of been more helpful in my first post :)
Quoting new_parad1gm from the Thread "Samsung 2233RZ vs. Zalman ZM-M220W"
The Samsung 2233RZ is a true 120Hz monitor, so it will be able to provide full resolution to each eye at 60Hz. As for the ghosting issues, some people are more sensitive to it than others, and it also depends on several factors like how long the monitor has been on (time for it to warm up), which refresh rate you are running at, and your depth and convergence settings. Unfortunately, there will probably be some ghosting no matter what, as it is the nature of the technology (the glasses do not fully go opaque when shuttering, and the shuttering cannot perfectly match the refresh rate of the monitor). But for some of the games I've tried, I don't see ghosting at all (Left 4 Dead), while other games the ghosting is especially noticeable (Mirror's Edge), so it also varies from game to game.
For optimal stereoscopic 3D image quality, when using a pure 120 Hz LCD, please allow your monitor to warm up. This warm-up period is normal behavior for LCD monitors.
[quote name='Darkminion' post='536279' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:31 PM']Quoting new_parad1gm from the Thread "Samsung 2233RZ vs. Zalman ZM-M220W"
The link to that thread is [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t92328.html"]here[/url][/quote]
I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.
I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='536314' date='Apr 30 2009, 09:24 PM']I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.[/quote]
Thanks again for stepping in and clear up how it's really is and as I said it's probably other factors like you mentioned and not a single review from the big sites have mention ghosing whatsoever
so as usual it's the end users fault or that the game isent 100% compatible /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
Of course I cant really say that for a fact but from what I have read/ppl who knows say ghosting aint the monitor fault im convinced that' the real deal and my eyes are sensetive so I will definetly pick up the smalest minor artifact.
But that is one thing im willing to do as this is all fresh and new and to get some small minor compability issues means nothing at all and is a thing we can take for granted with new shiny staff. it would be most strange if it would be perfect from day one isent it :rolleyes:
Things will only getting bigger and better from here on as we know nVidia pretty much own's ever developer out there!
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='536314' date='Apr 30 2009, 09:24 PM']I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.
Thanks again for stepping in and clear up how it's really is and as I said it's probably other factors like you mentioned and not a single review from the big sites have mention ghosing whatsoever
so as usual it's the end users fault or that the game isent 100% compatible /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
Of course I cant really say that for a fact but from what I have read/ppl who knows say ghosting aint the monitor fault im convinced that' the real deal and my eyes are sensetive so I will definetly pick up the smalest minor artifact.
But that is one thing im willing to do as this is all fresh and new and to get some small minor compability issues means nothing at all and is a thing we can take for granted with new shiny staff. it would be most strange if it would be perfect from day one isent it :rolleyes:
Things will only getting bigger and better from here on as we know nVidia pretty much own's ever developer out there!
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='536314' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:24 AM']I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.[/quote]
I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on. I'm basing my statement on the fact that stereoscopic images designed to measure ghosting show the ghosting clearly on these monitors, and the ghosting gets worse at the top and bottom, which mostly rules out the glasses contribution to the ghosting issue. There are no "graphical glitches" in these images, and besides, I know what glitches look like in a game. Those are annoying, but not the same thing.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='536314' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:24 AM']I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.
I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on. I'm basing my statement on the fact that stereoscopic images designed to measure ghosting show the ghosting clearly on these monitors, and the ghosting gets worse at the top and bottom, which mostly rules out the glasses contribution to the ghosting issue. There are no "graphical glitches" in these images, and besides, I know what glitches look like in a game. Those are annoying, but not the same thing.
Did you notice that the glasses don't darken 100%, and are you playing a game with bright scenes? (COD4: the opening to Charlie Dont Surf is an excellent example). From experience darker games (in shade not tone) seem to get better results, except Fallout 3, I have very little problems with Fallout 3 no matter how bright it is. Also which drivers are you running, a change of drivers also made a big difference for me. Let me see if I can "stack" two pairs of glasses to get better light blockage and test that out with some so-so games.
Did you notice that the glasses don't darken 100%, and are you playing a game with bright scenes? (COD4: the opening to Charlie Dont Surf is an excellent example). From experience darker games (in shade not tone) seem to get better results, except Fallout 3, I have very little problems with Fallout 3 no matter how bright it is. Also which drivers are you running, a change of drivers also made a big difference for me. Let me see if I can "stack" two pairs of glasses to get better light blockage and test that out with some so-so games.
[quote name='rkuo' post='536333' date='Apr 30 2009, 04:56 PM']I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on. I'm basing my statement on the fact that stereoscopic images designed to measure ghosting show the ghosting clearly on these monitors, and the ghosting gets worse at the top and bottom, which mostly rules out the glasses contribution to the ghosting issue. There are no "graphical glitches" in these images, and besides, I know what glitches look like in a game. Those are annoying, but not the same thing.[/quote]
OK, so I did some testing and paid closer attention and I've come to the conclusion that ghosting is not the fault of the monitor. It is, in fact, the fault of the S3D drivers.
With S3D disabled, I personally see no ghosting whatsoever. The monitor performs like any other monitor, maybe better -- I'm a big fan of Samsung monitors/TVs.
With S3D enabled and stereo separation set at default (15%, or with the slider-wheel turned all the way down) I see minimal ghosting -- it's not perfect, but it's no more than you would expect with S3D, and as you might expect it's less in games rated "excellent" for 3DV compatibility.
However, when you turn stereo separation up, indeed there's the ghosting. The more you turn it up (i.e. using the wheel on the emitter), the more ghosting you get. Previously, I had been playing pretty much exclusively with it set to default while I got used to the glasses and the 3d effect. Since the ghosting appears in tandem with the emitter's increase in stereo separation, it only makes sense that it's the result of something to do with how the 3D Vision drivers are processing the stereo image, not how the monitor is displaying them. The monitor isn't taking active commands, it's just displaying what it's told to.
Does it suck that turning up the 3d effect increases the likelihood of ghosting? Yes, of course it does. But I still say it's not the monitor causing it. Hopefully future nvidia driver updates will prove me right.
I would be curious, though, to hear from 3D Vision users with other monitors (Viewsonic, DLP, or CRT) to see if they see the same effect and if it seems similarly linked to the Stereo Separation slider?
[quote name='rkuo' post='536333' date='Apr 30 2009, 04:56 PM']I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on. I'm basing my statement on the fact that stereoscopic images designed to measure ghosting show the ghosting clearly on these monitors, and the ghosting gets worse at the top and bottom, which mostly rules out the glasses contribution to the ghosting issue. There are no "graphical glitches" in these images, and besides, I know what glitches look like in a game. Those are annoying, but not the same thing.
OK, so I did some testing and paid closer attention and I've come to the conclusion that ghosting is not the fault of the monitor. It is, in fact, the fault of the S3D drivers.
With S3D disabled, I personally see no ghosting whatsoever. The monitor performs like any other monitor, maybe better -- I'm a big fan of Samsung monitors/TVs.
With S3D enabled and stereo separation set at default (15%, or with the slider-wheel turned all the way down) I see minimal ghosting -- it's not perfect, but it's no more than you would expect with S3D, and as you might expect it's less in games rated "excellent" for 3DV compatibility.
However, when you turn stereo separation up, indeed there's the ghosting. The more you turn it up (i.e. using the wheel on the emitter), the more ghosting you get. Previously, I had been playing pretty much exclusively with it set to default while I got used to the glasses and the 3d effect. Since the ghosting appears in tandem with the emitter's increase in stereo separation, it only makes sense that it's the result of something to do with how the 3D Vision drivers are processing the stereo image, not how the monitor is displaying them. The monitor isn't taking active commands, it's just displaying what it's told to.
Does it suck that turning up the 3d effect increases the likelihood of ghosting? Yes, of course it does. But I still say it's not the monitor causing it. Hopefully future nvidia driver updates will prove me right.
I would be curious, though, to hear from 3D Vision users with other monitors (Viewsonic, DLP, or CRT) to see if they see the same effect and if it seems similarly linked to the Stereo Separation slider?
I'm just inflicking....
Back in the old days when i used a crt-monitor/e-dims shutters i noticed a clear difference in ghosting when going down from 85Hz refresh to maybe 75 or 72 hz.
I believe it's the monitors fault that the image is ghosting though. Some of it could maybe be fixed by adjusting the timing (driverlevel) but maybe not....
Back in the old days when i used a crt-monitor/e-dims shutters i noticed a clear difference in ghosting when going down from 85Hz refresh to maybe 75 or 72 hz.
I believe it's the monitors fault that the image is ghosting though. Some of it could maybe be fixed by adjusting the timing (driverlevel) but maybe not....
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?[/quote]
I see no ghosting whatsoever, with or without the glasses. What I think people may actually be seeing is 3d artifacts in games that aren't 100% compatible with an "Excellent" rating from nVidia -- for example, in Mirror's Edge the shadows do weird things that some people might interpret as ghosting, but is really just a graphical incompatibility. In my experience, there is no ghosting whatsoever in games that are rated "Excellent" for full 3d Vision compatibility (*note: Mirror's Edge seems to be rated "Excellent" according to the compatibility page, but my system says it's "Good" only...not sure what that's about).
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).
Have read up everything I can find on this great thing 3D Vision and are wondering about the ghosting issues!
On every review I can find no one ever mentioned that they have seen any ghosting whatsoever so one can belive that it really must be the end user who dont have set it up properly or the reviewers are blind. but thats pretty hard to belive aint it :)
If their is ghosting then surely it must be the 2233RZ Monitor fault. I mean I cant wait for this as I see it 8'th wonder of the world but feels a little afraid as I wondering if it's better to hold on and wait for some other 120hz monitors to come out.
What do you guys think, can it be that the Samsung 2233RZ aint fast enough or have the ghosting problem whent away with newer drivers or so ?
I see no ghosting whatsoever, with or without the glasses. What I think people may actually be seeing is 3d artifacts in games that aren't 100% compatible with an "Excellent" rating from nVidia -- for example, in Mirror's Edge the shadows do weird things that some people might interpret as ghosting, but is really just a graphical incompatibility. In my experience, there is no ghosting whatsoever in games that are rated "Excellent" for full 3d Vision compatibility (*note: Mirror's Edge seems to be rated "Excellent" according to the compatibility page, but my system says it's "Good" only...not sure what that's about).
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).
Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).[/quote]
Hi and thanks for taking the time to answer!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appricated your indept answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)
It may also depend on your graphics card? 3d is pretty taxing on the gpu, I imagine you might get anomolies with a less powerful card. Personally, I'd recommend a gtx260 or higher.
The 2233RZ is superb. My only complaint would be that the Dynamic Contrast might be a tad high, shades of grey often appear flat black and whites can be blinding (this could probably be remedied with proper manual color calibration, I just haven't gotten to it yet).
Hi and thanks for taking the time to answer!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appricated your indept answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appritiated your indepht answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)[/quote]
Don`t worry
GTX 285 is enough to play most games
i have GTX285
it makes me happy!
Exactly what I wanted to hear and I do belive you are right, spot on so to speak as I said I have never heard any complaints from the big reviewers so it's just that ppl cant set it up properly and or some artifacting in games as you said.
I know it's taxing as the gxf has to render 2 frames and even that can be a thing ppl imagine, ooh ghosting ghosting when the fps starts to a crawl. often it's up to the end user and many folks shouldent even have a computer, it's easier to blame it on others when they dont know jack shi. LOL!
I will get the 3D kit as soon it's here in Sweden. should be just a week away or so :D
Thanks again I appritiated your indepht answer!
BTW I have a GTX 285 so I should have no problems running most games :)
Don`t worry
GTX 285 is enough to play most games
i have GTX285
it makes me happy!
i7 8700K @4.9
GTX1080Ti
Asrock Z370 Gamming K6
Windows10 64bit
LG OLED UHD 3dtv 55E6K
GTX 285 is enough to play most games
i have GTX285
it makes me happy![/quote]
Thanks and as you said I think it will be plenty, I run the games at 1920*1200 now so running 1680*1050 X2 wont stress it that muh more and nVidia said that they can optimize it plenty in the upcoming games so the load should not be as much as render it X2 and then later in the year the GTX 300 series will arrive with DX11 support and a whole new paradigm will begin again with nVidia being the innovators. I just cant praise nVidia enough. I just love em plain and simple.
First they gave us PhysX and now they give us 3D vision.!
nVidia FTW :D
GTX 285 is enough to play most games
i have GTX285
it makes me happy!
Thanks and as you said I think it will be plenty, I run the games at 1920*1200 now so running 1680*1050 X2 wont stress it that muh more and nVidia said that they can optimize it plenty in the upcoming games so the load should not be as much as render it X2 and then later in the year the GTX 300 series will arrive with DX11 support and a whole new paradigm will begin again with nVidia being the innovators. I just cant praise nVidia enough. I just love em plain and simple.
First they gave us PhysX and now they give us 3D vision.!
nVidia FTW :D
How do you go about doing that? I can see some clear ghosting especially in high contrast areas of the game. Light lamp etc.
How do you go about doing that? I can see some clear ghosting especially in high contrast areas of the game. Light lamp etc.
[quote]The Samsung 2233RZ is a true 120Hz monitor, so it will be able to provide full resolution to each eye at 60Hz. As for the ghosting issues, some people are more sensitive to it than others, and it also depends on several factors like how long the monitor has been on (time for it to warm up), which refresh rate you are running at, and your depth and convergence settings. Unfortunately, there will probably be some ghosting no matter what, as it is the nature of the technology (the glasses do not fully go opaque when shuttering, and the shuttering cannot perfectly match the refresh rate of the monitor). But for some of the games I've tried, I don't see ghosting at all (Left 4 Dead), while other games the ghosting is especially noticeable (Mirror's Edge), so it also varies from game to game.[/quote]
The link to that thread is [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t92328.html"]here[/url]
[url="http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6094"]http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6094[/url]
[quote]For optimal stereoscopic 3D image quality, when using a pure 120 Hz LCD, please allow your monitor to warm up. This warm-up period is normal behavior for LCD monitors.[/quote]
And for more [url="http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5636041/description.html"]detailed technical reasons[/url]
Sorry, should of been more helpful in my first post :)
The link to that thread is here
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6094
And for more detailed technical reasons
Sorry, should of been more helpful in my first post :)
The link to that thread is [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t92328.html"]here[/url][/quote]
I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.
The link to that thread is here
I still say that's not the fault of the monitor, though; which was the OP's original question. If anything, it's a failing of the 3d Vision drivers to work properly with certain animations (which nvidia freely acknowledges -- not every game out there is 100% compatible. See also: Compatible Games list). Turn off 3d Vision and you won't see any flaws whatsoever in standard gaming graphics on the 2233RZ, or load up 3d Vision with one of the games that IS 100% compatible and you won't see any ghosting.
Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120
Thanks again for stepping in and clear up how it's really is and as I said it's probably other factors like you mentioned and not a single review from the big sites have mention ghosing whatsoever
so as usual it's the end users fault or that the game isent 100% compatible
Of course I cant really say that for a fact but from what I have read/ppl who knows say ghosting aint the monitor fault im convinced that' the real deal and my eyes are sensetive so I will definetly pick up the smalest minor artifact.
But that is one thing im willing to do as this is all fresh and new and to get some small minor compability issues means nothing at all and is a thing we can take for granted with new shiny staff. it would be most strange if it would be perfect from day one isent it :rolleyes:
Things will only getting bigger and better from here on as we know nVidia pretty much own's ever developer out there!
Thanks again for stepping in and clear up how it's really is and as I said it's probably other factors like you mentioned and not a single review from the big sites have mention ghosing whatsoever
so as usual it's the end users fault or that the game isent 100% compatible
Of course I cant really say that for a fact but from what I have read/ppl who knows say ghosting aint the monitor fault im convinced that' the real deal and my eyes are sensetive so I will definetly pick up the smalest minor artifact.
But that is one thing im willing to do as this is all fresh and new and to get some small minor compability issues means nothing at all and is a thing we can take for granted with new shiny staff. it would be most strange if it would be perfect from day one isent it :rolleyes:
Things will only getting bigger and better from here on as we know nVidia pretty much own's ever developer out there!
I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on. I'm basing my statement on the fact that stereoscopic images designed to measure ghosting show the ghosting clearly on these monitors, and the ghosting gets worse at the top and bottom, which mostly rules out the glasses contribution to the ghosting issue. There are no "graphical glitches" in these images, and besides, I know what glitches look like in a game. Those are annoying, but not the same thing.
I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on. I'm basing my statement on the fact that stereoscopic images designed to measure ghosting show the ghosting clearly on these monitors, and the ghosting gets worse at the top and bottom, which mostly rules out the glasses contribution to the ghosting issue. There are no "graphical glitches" in these images, and besides, I know what glitches look like in a game. Those are annoying, but not the same thing.
OK, so I did some testing and paid closer attention and I've come to the conclusion that ghosting is not the fault of the monitor. It is, in fact, the fault of the S3D drivers.
With S3D disabled, I personally see no ghosting whatsoever. The monitor performs like any other monitor, maybe better -- I'm a big fan of Samsung monitors/TVs.
With S3D enabled and stereo separation set at default (15%, or with the slider-wheel turned all the way down) I see minimal ghosting -- it's not perfect, but it's no more than you would expect with S3D, and as you might expect it's less in games rated "excellent" for 3DV compatibility.
However, when you turn stereo separation up, indeed there's the ghosting. The more you turn it up (i.e. using the wheel on the emitter), the more ghosting you get. Previously, I had been playing pretty much exclusively with it set to default while I got used to the glasses and the 3d effect. Since the ghosting appears in tandem with the emitter's increase in stereo separation, it only makes sense that it's the result of something to do with how the 3D Vision drivers are processing the stereo image, not how the monitor is displaying them. The monitor isn't taking active commands, it's just displaying what it's told to.
Does it suck that turning up the 3d effect increases the likelihood of ghosting? Yes, of course it does. But I still say it's not the monitor causing it. Hopefully future nvidia driver updates will prove me right.
I would be curious, though, to hear from 3D Vision users with other monitors (Viewsonic, DLP, or CRT) to see if they see the same effect and if it seems similarly linked to the Stereo Separation slider?
OK, so I did some testing and paid closer attention and I've come to the conclusion that ghosting is not the fault of the monitor. It is, in fact, the fault of the S3D drivers.
With S3D disabled, I personally see no ghosting whatsoever. The monitor performs like any other monitor, maybe better -- I'm a big fan of Samsung monitors/TVs.
With S3D enabled and stereo separation set at default (15%, or with the slider-wheel turned all the way down) I see minimal ghosting -- it's not perfect, but it's no more than you would expect with S3D, and as you might expect it's less in games rated "excellent" for 3DV compatibility.
However, when you turn stereo separation up, indeed there's the ghosting. The more you turn it up (i.e. using the wheel on the emitter), the more ghosting you get. Previously, I had been playing pretty much exclusively with it set to default while I got used to the glasses and the 3d effect. Since the ghosting appears in tandem with the emitter's increase in stereo separation, it only makes sense that it's the result of something to do with how the 3D Vision drivers are processing the stereo image, not how the monitor is displaying them. The monitor isn't taking active commands, it's just displaying what it's told to.
Does it suck that turning up the 3d effect increases the likelihood of ghosting? Yes, of course it does. But I still say it's not the monitor causing it. Hopefully future nvidia driver updates will prove me right.
I would be curious, though, to hear from 3D Vision users with other monitors (Viewsonic, DLP, or CRT) to see if they see the same effect and if it seems similarly linked to the Stereo Separation slider?
Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120
Back in the old days when i used a crt-monitor/e-dims shutters i noticed a clear difference in ghosting when going down from 85Hz refresh to maybe 75 or 72 hz.
I believe it's the monitors fault that the image is ghosting though. Some of it could maybe be fixed by adjusting the timing (driverlevel) but maybe not....
Back in the old days when i used a crt-monitor/e-dims shutters i noticed a clear difference in ghosting when going down from 85Hz refresh to maybe 75 or 72 hz.
I believe it's the monitors fault that the image is ghosting though. Some of it could maybe be fixed by adjusting the timing (driverlevel) but maybe not....
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.