[Review] 3D Vision Surround vs. Oculus Rift Development Kit 2
  1 / 5    
First of all I want you to know that english isn´t my mother tongue. 2 years ago I decided to write a review about my 3D Vision experiences. This thread grew up to the biggest exchange of experiences about 3D Vision and beyond in western europe (200.000 klicks and 3.000 postings). 3 weeks ago I tested an Oculus Rift DK2 Setup and compared it to my 3D Vision Surround Rig. I don´t want to deforce my expressions from you and hope it will be achievable for you to arrange a little bit with my mother tongue. [b]I try to summarize my explanations in short english sentences below this review:[/b] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [B][U]3D Vision Surround vs. Oculus Rift Development Kit 2 (ORD2) - 10.08.2014[/U][/B] An erster Stelle möchte ich mich bei einem guten Freund bedanken, der mir dieses brandneue ORD2 Kit kostenfrei zur Verfügung stellt. [CENTER][url=http://abload.de/image.php?img=1wtfqrkrl0fdsux2.jpg][img]http://abload.de/img/1wtfqrkrl0fdsux2.jpg[/img][/url] [/CENTER] Hallo Community, heiß ersehnt und erwartet habe ich das brandaktuelle ORD2 in Betrieb genommen. Eines vorweg, mein Review bezieht sich auf das heutige Datum. Weiters möchte ich dringendst darauf hinweisen, dass meine Betrachtungsweise von mittlerweile 2 jähriger 3D Vision (Surround) Erfahrung geprägt ist. Ich möchte herausstreichen, dass mir jegliches verteidigen meines eigenen Setups fern liegt und ich einfach versuche möglichst zeitnah meine Empfindungen, Bauchgefühle und Gedanken weiterzugeben. [B][U]Einrichtung und Allgemeines:[/U][/B] In puncto ORD2 sprechen wir zu diesem Zeitpunkt ausdrücklich von Developer Hardware, fernab jeglicher Endkundenversion. Die Einrichtung gestaltet sich verglichen mit derer eines 3D Vision Setups wesentlich umfangreicher, Plug and Play Käufer sollten dahingehend in diesem Entwicklungsstadium die Anschaffung eines ORD2 Kits nicht in Betracht ziehen. [CENTER][url=http://abload.de/image.php?img=23df3mk7ruf.jpg][img]http://abload.de/img/23df3mk7ruf.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER] Empfehlung meinerseits: Dem beigelegten Quick Installation Guide folgen und parallel dazu diese brauchbare Anleitung beachten --> [url]http://www.bloculus.de/oculus-rift-developer-kit-2-guide-fuer-neueinsteiger-und-bekannte-probleme/[/url] In Sachen Troubleshooting durchforstet ihr meist englischsprachige Foren, alles aber machbar sofern man der Sprache in grundlegendem Maße mächtig ist. [B][U]Test und Ersteindruck:[/U][/B] Hier beginnt der schwierigste Teil meines Reviews, da ich Euch meine Empfindungen nur äußerst 3D Vision "vorbelastet" wiedergeben kann. Darin liegt nun wirklich der Hund begraben und dies macht mich etwas sprachlos. Ihr alle kennt mit Sicherheit die unzähligen Youtube Videos, in denen OR Ersttester fast vom Hocker fallen und vor Freude schreien. Ich habe mir diese ebenso angeguckt und darauf hingefiebert. Nach Inbetriebnahme und den üblichen bekannten Demos (Rollercoaster, AloneInTheRift, Ocean Rift ,...) setzte ich das ORD2 Kit ab und machte erstmal Pause um die Enttäuschung zu verdauen. Ich fragte mich erst ob irgendetwas nicht mit mir stimme, warum bei mir nicht der "Ich fall vom Stuhl" Aspekt wie der Holzhammer zuschlägt. [CENTER][url=http://abload.de/image.php?img=3ildn5utu8f.jpg][img]http://abload.de/img/3ildn5utu8f.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER] Eine Stunde später nochmals die Demos getestet, keine Besserung in Sicht. Dinge wie die katastrophale Auflösung, die einen die Pixel zählen lässt, schob ich komplett beiseite. Auch den Aspekt, dass die Farben unnatürlich wirkten ebenso. Ich hab in den Demos rumgeguckt, beim Rollercoaster wurde es mir etwas komisch im Kopf, nach der zweiten Fahrt war die Gewöhnung schon da. Der 3D Effekt sieht toll aus, aber .... und genau da komme ich jetzt auf den Punkt:"[B]Den 3D Effekt kenne ich bereits[/B]." In und auswendig, genieße ich fast täglich @ 3D Vision Surround in perfekter Auflösung mit gut 95% aller Spieletitel. Der "Ich fall vom Stuhl Effekt" kann bei mir nicht zünden, ich könnte mich nur über eine bessere Immersion dank dem Sichtbereich freuen. Aber auch da macht das 5 Zoll Diplay mit einem Sichtfeld, welches in der Breite geringer als mein Surround Setup ausfällt, nicht mit. Die Unbegrenztheit nach oben und unten werte ich als Pluspunkt, der einzige den ich jetzt ausmachen kann. [CENTER][url=http://abload.de/image.php?img=4g0c21x3u4n.jpg][img]http://abload.de/img/4g0c21x3u4n.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER] [B][U]Fazit:[/U][/B] Erfahrungen darüber habe ich mit meinem Kumpel (dem Bereitsteller dieses ORD2 Kits) ausgetauscht. Er selbst ist auch langjähriger 3D Vision Surround gamer. Leute ich muss euch mitteilen, dass sich unsere Empfindungen "leider" zu 100% decken. Das Kit bleibt nun noch paar Tage bei mir und geht dann wieder zu ihm retour und weiter via ebay. Bevor hier künftige OR Aspiranten glauben, dass diese 3D Vision Community völlig verblendet sei, möchte ich eines festhalten: Wir sprechen hinsichtlich ORD2 von einem Produkt, welches für den Endkunden noch längst nicht am Markt ist. In 2-3 Jahren wird das Display hoffentlich massiven Verbesserungen, Stichwort Pixeldichte, unterzogen werden. Dazu braucht es dann auch entsprechende Hardware der User (4k ist meines erachtens unerlässlich). Der Vergleich mit völlig ausgereiftem und lange am Markt befindlichen 3D Vision hinkt diesbezüglich natürlich gewaltig. Ich glaube nach wie vor an OR, an die baldige voll zufriedenstellende Marktreife aber nicht mehr. Wie mein Kumpel trocken meinte:"Warte noch 2-3 Jahre dann passt das.", so würde ich dies auch beurteilen. [CENTER][url=http://abload.de/image.php?img=5hocqmefu7f.jpg][img]http://abload.de/img/5hocqmefu7f.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER] [B][U]Zurück zum "Ich falle vom Stuhl Aspekt":[/U][/B] Die Menschen, [U]und beschämenderweise unzählige Redakteure renommierter PC-Fachmagazine[/U], sind OR geflasht, weil sie noch nie völlig ausgereiftes 3D Vision vor Augen hatten! Ich habe als Abonnent beispielsweise der pcgh-Redaktion in einem Anschreiben ans Herz gelegt, bitte doch einmal so einen 3D Vision Moni in die Redaktion zu stellen und alle Redakteure zu verpflichten die ersten 10 Minuten Tomb Raider 2013 @ 3D Vision anzuspielen. Feedback Fehlanzeige, Rückmeldung Nischenprodukt und seit 3D Vision 1 keine Testbemühungen mehr. Traurig Leute, vermutlich kann ich euch den OR Flash nur dann voraussagen, wenn ihr 3D Vision noch nie vor Augen hattet. Ansonsten ists ein lauer Aufguss, eine nette und zugleich unausgereifte Spielerei, mit Potential ... auf alle Fälle. Nur nicht hier und heute (Standpunkt gaming!). Bitte nutzt im Fließtext die Möglichkeit zum Thema OR vs 3D Vision zu posten. Unser Thread hier hat sich zu 3D Vision and beyond entwickelt und wird von euch treuen Mitgliedern dafür geschätzt. Danke für eure Mithilfe und ich hoffe euch nicht allzu traurige News mitgegeben zu haben. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]Short summary in English:[/b] After 2 weeks of testing OR I sent this DK2 back to the owner, who is a friend of mine and also 3D Vision Surround gamer. Thx buddie about the possibility testing this OR DK2 Kit for free! First of all we´re talking about an OR development Kit, please consider that. At this time it`s far away from a consumer version. First of all it´s sometimes tricky to get this stuff running. I wouldn`t recommend this Kit to plug and play users at present time. I was very excited and started my OR testroundup with demos like ... Alone in the Rift Chilling Space Crystal Rift Cyber Space Helix Rollercoaster Hell Waltzer Mining Mike Ocean Rift Titans of space ... and games Half Life 2 and War Thunder. After 30 minutes of testing OR I decided to take a break. Motion sickness wasn`t really a problem for me, but first of all I was confused. No aha experience for me, disappointed ... and simultaneously thoughts about something is wrong with me. After break and a testroundup again, same thoghts and only one answer for me. VR looks nice, but this great immersive 3D experience is common practice for me. After two years enjoying 3D Vision (Surround) that 3D experience is nothing new using DK2. Headtracking is a nice gimmick with OR, but I also tested this via Track IR @ 3D Vision Surround (Hawx 2, Project cars, ...). Nothing new at all for me. We are used to play AAA titels @ high resolution and ultra settings. Testing OR puts me back to 640*480 resolution feeling years ago. Sometimes I felt like a pixel counter. Please notice my first sentences, where I mentioned that we´re talking about a development Kit! But it needs a lot of development engagement and I´d suggest a resolution at least 4K for a satisfying VR experience. If prospective casual gaming systems can handle this is one question, the other is the consumer by himself. Most people hate 3D because of wearing light glasses. Are they determined to wear heavy VR setups? I´m thinking that OR has a lot of potential in a few years. With high resolution displays it would be interesting for architecture, simulations and so on. If gaming will be on the OR hitlist remains to be proved. At this time I can imagine ordering an OR consumer Kit 2015 for additional use beside my 3D Vision Surround Setup. I don´t know if VR will replace my 3D Vision Rig in common future ... maybe yes, but not here and now. Our german Discussion thread about 3D Vision and beyond: http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1326497 Greetings from Austria, ronrebell.
First of all I want you to know that english isn´t my mother tongue.

2 years ago I decided to write a review about my 3D Vision experiences. This thread grew up to the biggest exchange of experiences about 3D Vision and beyond in western europe (200.000 klicks and 3.000 postings).

3 weeks ago I tested an Oculus Rift DK2 Setup and compared it to my 3D Vision Surround Rig.
I don´t want to deforce my expressions from you and hope it will be achievable for you to arrange a little bit with my mother tongue.

I try to summarize my explanations in short english sentences below this review:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3D Vision Surround vs. Oculus Rift Development Kit 2 (ORD2) - 10.08.2014

An erster Stelle möchte ich mich bei einem guten Freund bedanken, der mir dieses brandneue ORD2 Kit kostenfrei zur Verfügung stellt.

Image


Hallo Community, heiß ersehnt und erwartet habe ich das brandaktuelle ORD2 in Betrieb genommen.
Eines vorweg, mein Review bezieht sich auf das heutige Datum. Weiters möchte ich dringendst darauf hinweisen, dass meine Betrachtungsweise von mittlerweile 2 jähriger 3D Vision (Surround) Erfahrung geprägt ist.

Ich möchte herausstreichen, dass mir jegliches verteidigen meines eigenen Setups fern liegt und ich einfach versuche möglichst zeitnah meine Empfindungen, Bauchgefühle und Gedanken weiterzugeben.

Einrichtung und Allgemeines:

In puncto ORD2 sprechen wir zu diesem Zeitpunkt ausdrücklich von Developer Hardware, fernab jeglicher Endkundenversion. Die Einrichtung gestaltet sich verglichen mit derer eines 3D Vision Setups wesentlich umfangreicher, Plug and Play Käufer sollten dahingehend in diesem Entwicklungsstadium die Anschaffung eines ORD2 Kits nicht in Betracht ziehen.

Image


Empfehlung meinerseits: Dem beigelegten Quick Installation Guide folgen und parallel dazu diese brauchbare Anleitung beachten -->
http://www.bloculus.de/oculus-rift-developer-kit-2-guide-fuer-neueinsteiger-und-bekannte-probleme/
In Sachen Troubleshooting durchforstet ihr meist englischsprachige Foren, alles aber machbar sofern man der Sprache in grundlegendem Maße mächtig ist.

Test und Ersteindruck:

Hier beginnt der schwierigste Teil meines Reviews, da ich Euch meine Empfindungen nur äußerst 3D Vision "vorbelastet" wiedergeben kann. Darin liegt nun wirklich der Hund begraben und dies macht mich etwas sprachlos.

Ihr alle kennt mit Sicherheit die unzähligen Youtube Videos, in denen OR Ersttester fast vom Hocker fallen und vor Freude schreien. Ich habe mir diese ebenso angeguckt und darauf hingefiebert.

Nach Inbetriebnahme und den üblichen bekannten Demos (Rollercoaster, AloneInTheRift, Ocean Rift ,...) setzte ich das ORD2 Kit ab und machte erstmal Pause um die Enttäuschung zu verdauen. Ich fragte mich erst ob irgendetwas nicht mit mir stimme, warum bei mir nicht der "Ich fall vom Stuhl" Aspekt wie der Holzhammer zuschlägt.

Image


Eine Stunde später nochmals die Demos getestet, keine Besserung in Sicht. Dinge wie die katastrophale Auflösung, die einen die Pixel zählen lässt, schob ich komplett beiseite. Auch den Aspekt, dass die Farben unnatürlich wirkten ebenso. Ich hab in den Demos rumgeguckt, beim Rollercoaster wurde es mir etwas komisch im Kopf, nach der zweiten Fahrt war die Gewöhnung schon da.

Der 3D Effekt sieht toll aus, aber .... und genau da komme ich jetzt auf den Punkt:"Den 3D Effekt kenne ich bereits." In und auswendig, genieße ich fast täglich @ 3D Vision Surround in perfekter Auflösung mit gut 95% aller Spieletitel. Der "Ich fall vom Stuhl Effekt" kann bei mir nicht zünden, ich könnte mich nur über eine bessere Immersion dank dem Sichtbereich freuen. Aber auch da macht das 5 Zoll Diplay mit einem Sichtfeld, welches in der Breite geringer als mein Surround Setup ausfällt, nicht mit. Die Unbegrenztheit nach oben und unten werte ich als Pluspunkt, der einzige den ich jetzt ausmachen kann.

Image


Fazit:

Erfahrungen darüber habe ich mit meinem Kumpel (dem Bereitsteller dieses ORD2 Kits) ausgetauscht. Er selbst ist auch langjähriger 3D Vision Surround gamer. Leute ich muss euch mitteilen, dass sich unsere Empfindungen "leider" zu 100% decken. Das Kit bleibt nun noch paar Tage bei mir und geht dann wieder zu ihm retour und weiter via ebay.

Bevor hier künftige OR Aspiranten glauben, dass diese 3D Vision Community völlig verblendet sei, möchte ich eines festhalten: Wir sprechen hinsichtlich ORD2 von einem Produkt, welches für den Endkunden noch längst nicht am Markt ist. In 2-3 Jahren wird das Display hoffentlich massiven Verbesserungen, Stichwort Pixeldichte, unterzogen werden. Dazu braucht es dann auch entsprechende Hardware der User (4k ist meines erachtens unerlässlich). Der Vergleich mit völlig ausgereiftem und lange am Markt befindlichen 3D Vision hinkt diesbezüglich natürlich gewaltig.

Ich glaube nach wie vor an OR, an die baldige voll zufriedenstellende Marktreife aber nicht mehr. Wie mein Kumpel trocken meinte:"Warte noch 2-3 Jahre dann passt das.", so würde ich dies auch beurteilen.

Image


Zurück zum "Ich falle vom Stuhl Aspekt":

Die Menschen, und beschämenderweise unzählige Redakteure renommierter PC-Fachmagazine, sind OR geflasht, weil sie noch nie völlig ausgereiftes 3D Vision vor Augen hatten! Ich habe als Abonnent beispielsweise der pcgh-Redaktion in einem Anschreiben ans Herz gelegt, bitte doch einmal so einen 3D Vision Moni in die Redaktion zu stellen und alle Redakteure zu verpflichten die ersten 10 Minuten Tomb Raider 2013 @ 3D Vision anzuspielen.
Feedback Fehlanzeige, Rückmeldung Nischenprodukt und seit 3D Vision 1 keine Testbemühungen mehr.

Traurig Leute, vermutlich kann ich euch den OR Flash nur dann voraussagen, wenn ihr 3D Vision noch nie vor Augen hattet.
Ansonsten ists ein lauer Aufguss, eine nette und zugleich unausgereifte Spielerei, mit Potential ... auf alle Fälle. Nur nicht hier und heute (Standpunkt gaming!).

Bitte nutzt im Fließtext die Möglichkeit zum Thema OR vs 3D Vision zu posten. Unser Thread hier hat sich zu 3D Vision and beyond entwickelt und wird von euch treuen Mitgliedern dafür geschätzt.

Danke für eure Mithilfe und ich hoffe euch nicht allzu traurige News mitgegeben zu haben.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Short summary in English:

After 2 weeks of testing OR I sent this DK2 back to the owner, who is a friend of mine and also 3D Vision Surround gamer. Thx buddie about the possibility testing this OR DK2 Kit for free!

First of all we´re talking about an OR development Kit, please consider that. At this time it`s far away from a consumer version. First of all it´s sometimes tricky to get this stuff running. I wouldn`t recommend this Kit to plug and play users at present time.

I was very excited and started my OR testroundup with demos like ...

Alone in the Rift
Chilling Space
Crystal Rift
Cyber Space
Helix Rollercoaster
Hell Waltzer
Mining Mike
Ocean Rift
Titans of space

... and games Half Life 2 and War Thunder.

After 30 minutes of testing OR I decided to take a break. Motion sickness wasn`t really a problem for me, but first of all I was confused. No aha experience for me, disappointed ... and simultaneously thoughts about something is wrong with me.

After break and a testroundup again, same thoghts and only one answer for me. VR looks nice, but this great immersive 3D experience is common practice for me. After two years enjoying 3D Vision (Surround) that 3D experience is nothing new using DK2.

Headtracking is a nice gimmick with OR, but I also tested this via Track IR @ 3D Vision Surround (Hawx 2, Project cars, ...). Nothing new at all for me.

We are used to play AAA titels @ high resolution and ultra settings. Testing OR puts me back to 640*480 resolution feeling years ago. Sometimes I felt like a pixel counter. Please notice my first sentences, where I mentioned that we´re talking about a development Kit! But it needs a lot of development engagement and I´d suggest a resolution at least 4K for a satisfying VR experience.

If prospective casual gaming systems can handle this is one question, the other is the consumer by himself. Most people hate 3D because of wearing light glasses. Are they determined to wear heavy VR setups?

I´m thinking that OR has a lot of potential in a few years. With high resolution displays it would be interesting for architecture, simulations and so on. If gaming will be on the OR hitlist remains to be proved.

At this time I can imagine ordering an OR consumer Kit 2015 for additional use beside my 3D Vision Surround Setup. I don´t know if VR will replace my 3D Vision Rig in common future ... maybe yes, but not here and now.

Our german Discussion thread about 3D Vision and beyond:
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1326497

Greetings from Austria,
ronrebell.
#1
Posted 08/22/2014 09:00 AM   
Thanks for that writeup! Really interesting to read. I was rather hoping that the DK2 would be quite a lot better than the DK1, but my math on the resolution definitely suggested that we need 4K to be stretched that far. This also matches my experience with the DK1. Initial impression is great from great head-tracking, but the 3D itself is actually weaker than we are accustomed to, and our current setups are generally a better gaming experience.
Thanks for that writeup! Really interesting to read.

I was rather hoping that the DK2 would be quite a lot better than the DK1, but my math on the resolution definitely suggested that we need 4K to be stretched that far.

This also matches my experience with the DK1. Initial impression is great from great head-tracking, but the 3D itself is actually weaker than we are accustomed to, and our current setups are generally a better gaming experience.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#2
Posted 08/23/2014 12:44 AM   
Isn't the amount of separation between objects variable in the OR? If its not, holy S, it should be. Well, at least that will be a nice reason to upgrade later on, assuming the OR takes off.
Isn't the amount of separation between objects variable in the OR? If its not, holy S, it should be. Well, at least that will be a nice reason to upgrade later on, assuming the OR takes off.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#3
Posted 08/23/2014 06:49 AM   
I talked to the owner of this DK2 Kit (who is also 3D Vision Surround user) about my impressions. He also tested DK1 a few months ago. He said, that 7"DK1 --> 5"DK2 was a step back of immersion. Our conclusion after comparing our 3D Vision surround setups with OR DK2 was absolutely the same (read #1 above). I also invented another 3D Vision (not surround) buddie testing DK2 @ my homebase. Same thoughts, nice but nothing new, potential yes, but far away from thinking about replacing our 3D Vision (Surround) RIGs. We discussed why a lot of computermagazine editors are that enthusiastic after testing OR and we are not. Our conclusion was, that they haven´t seen acceptable 3D before in their life. The headtracking and positional is funny, but if you haven´t seen perfect 3D (Vision) before - don´t compare that ugly cinema 3D - you are flashed with OR, because of this fantastic 3D experience. We already know fantastic 3D using 3D Vision (Surround) every day. A lot of games got perfect support and we know how to tweak games to the edge (convergence, Mods, ...). No surprise that OR wasn´t what we´ve expected. It´s ashamed that computermagazines haven´t tested 3D Vision since 3D Vision 1 release years ago. The ignorance is gigantic an it´s always commented with arguments like:"niche product, to expensive, ...". Do you know that? I suggested a well known computer editorial office to oblige their editors testing the first 10 minutes of Tomb Raider 2013 @ 3D Vision. I don´t have to tell you the answer .... Maybe VR paves the way for 3D renaissance, I don´t know. I´d receive that with cheers, that computer gamers get a chance for legitimate 3D publicity and what they´re missing playing computer games at flat 2D. 20 years ago I started with Atari and co, 2 years ago I decided to quit this hobbie. I was bored and felt too old... but 3D Vision crossed my way. The only reason continuing this hobbie which has nothing to do with these 2D decades before.
I talked to the owner of this DK2 Kit (who is also 3D Vision Surround user) about my impressions.
He also tested DK1 a few months ago. He said, that 7"DK1 --> 5"DK2 was a step back of immersion.

Our conclusion after comparing our 3D Vision surround setups with OR DK2 was absolutely the same (read #1 above).

I also invented another 3D Vision (not surround) buddie testing DK2 @ my homebase. Same thoughts, nice but nothing new, potential yes, but far away from thinking about replacing our
3D Vision (Surround) RIGs.

We discussed why a lot of computermagazine editors are that enthusiastic after testing OR and we are not.

Our conclusion was, that they haven´t seen acceptable 3D before in their life. The headtracking and positional is funny, but if you haven´t seen perfect 3D (Vision) before - don´t compare that ugly cinema 3D - you are flashed with OR, because of this fantastic 3D experience.

We already know fantastic 3D using 3D Vision (Surround) every day. A lot of games got perfect support and we know how to tweak games to the edge (convergence, Mods, ...). No surprise that OR wasn´t what we´ve expected.

It´s ashamed that computermagazines haven´t tested 3D Vision since 3D Vision 1 release years ago. The ignorance is gigantic an it´s always commented with arguments like:"niche product, to expensive, ...".

Do you know that?

I suggested a well known computer editorial office to oblige their editors testing the first 10 minutes of Tomb Raider 2013 @ 3D Vision. I don´t have to tell you the answer ....

Maybe VR paves the way for 3D renaissance, I don´t know. I´d receive that with cheers, that computer gamers get a chance for legitimate 3D publicity and what they´re missing playing computer games at flat 2D.

20 years ago I started with Atari and co, 2 years ago I decided to quit this hobbie. I was bored and felt too old... but 3D Vision crossed my way. The only reason continuing this hobbie which has nothing to do with these 2D decades before.
#4
Posted 08/23/2014 08:42 AM   
I don't know if it's because I only have three small 27 inch monitors for 3D gaming, or the fact that I have not set up my trackir to have 1 to 1 tracking, however after my limited testing of my DK2 I get two different types of experiences with both. 3D Vision has nice high resolution especially in Surround, however it never makes me feel like I am part of the world. It is just enjoyable to the eye. The demos that I have gotten to work on the DK2 makes me feel like I am more or less there. In a virtual world. Alot of it has to do with that one to one tracking. there is still alot of work that needs to be done, however I never went into this thinking that VR was a replacement for 3D Vision.
I don't know if it's because I only have three small 27 inch monitors for 3D gaming, or the fact that I have not set up my trackir to have 1 to 1 tracking, however after my limited testing of my DK2 I get two different types of experiences with both. 3D Vision has nice high resolution especially in Surround, however it never makes me feel like I am part of the world. It is just enjoyable to the eye.

The demos that I have gotten to work on the DK2 makes me feel like I am more or less there. In a virtual world. Alot of it has to do with that one to one tracking.

there is still alot of work that needs to be done, however I never went into this thinking that VR was a replacement for 3D Vision.

Intel Core i9-9820x @ 3.30GHZ
32 gig Ram
2 EVGA RTX 2080 ti Gaming
3 X ASUS ROG SWIFT 27 144Hz G-SYNC Gaming 3D Monitor [PG278Q]
1 X ASUS VG278HE
Nvidia 3Dvision
Oculus Rift
HTC VIVE
Windows 10

#5
Posted 08/23/2014 11:04 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Thanks for that writeup! Really interesting to read. I was rather hoping that the DK2 would be quite a lot better than the DK1, but my math on the resolution definitely suggested that we need 4K to be stretched that far. This also matches my experience with the DK1. Initial impression is great from great head-tracking, but the 3D itself is actually weaker than we are accustomed to, and our current setups are generally a better gaming experience.[/quote] Having spent more time with, I'm very impressed by the 3D. It doesn't have the options of 3D Vision, but it's just as good IMO. HL2, for instance, is definitely preferable to me with the Rift (although HL2 can be rough because of locomotion issues). You don't want to mess up the scale with improper convergence levels because HL2 looks awesome when the scale is proper. The only real issue is the lower resolution makes distant 3D suffer a bit. But immediate to intermediary 3D is actually quite terrific IMO. DK2 still has quite a few issues and I wouldn't recommend it to most (until CV1), but the one genre where I think it blows 3D Vision away, even at this point, is the racing sim genre. It's a situation where once you get used to it (and it takes a couple hours to get over all the warts and truly appreciate the Rift), there's no going back to sim racing any other way. Bottom line: If you're a big sim racer? Highly consider it. If you're not? I'd recommend waiting for CV1. But as a 3D Vision replacement, I think CV1 will be terrific. The future is incredibly bright with just a few more tweaks.
bo3b said:Thanks for that writeup! Really interesting to read.

I was rather hoping that the DK2 would be quite a lot better than the DK1, but my math on the resolution definitely suggested that we need 4K to be stretched that far.

This also matches my experience with the DK1. Initial impression is great from great head-tracking, but the 3D itself is actually weaker than we are accustomed to, and our current setups are generally a better gaming experience.


Having spent more time with, I'm very impressed by the 3D. It doesn't have the options of 3D Vision, but it's just as good IMO. HL2, for instance, is definitely preferable to me with the Rift (although HL2 can be rough because of locomotion issues). You don't want to mess up the scale with improper convergence levels because HL2 looks awesome when the scale is proper. The only real issue is the lower resolution makes distant 3D suffer a bit. But immediate to intermediary 3D is actually quite terrific IMO.

DK2 still has quite a few issues and I wouldn't recommend it to most (until CV1), but the one genre where I think it blows 3D Vision away, even at this point, is the racing sim genre. It's a situation where once you get used to it (and it takes a couple hours to get over all the warts and truly appreciate the Rift), there's no going back to sim racing any other way.

Bottom line: If you're a big sim racer? Highly consider it. If you're not? I'd recommend waiting for CV1. But as a 3D Vision replacement, I think CV1 will be terrific. The future is incredibly bright with just a few more tweaks.

#6
Posted 08/23/2014 11:31 AM   
Good info, and worth noting that everyone is different. I personally didn't find DK1 compelling, but it depends upon what you play and what you are looking for. As I noted in a different thread, I had the opposite effect on HL2- it was so low res that I could not get any sense of immersion. I tried a back-to-back experiment of HL2 on DK1, then on my projector in 3D Vision, and my immersion was far better on the projector. I think this was because the low-res kept reminding me that I was in a fake world, whereas with the projector I didn't have that distraction.
Good info, and worth noting that everyone is different. I personally didn't find DK1 compelling, but it depends upon what you play and what you are looking for.

As I noted in a different thread, I had the opposite effect on HL2- it was so low res that I could not get any sense of immersion. I tried a back-to-back experiment of HL2 on DK1, then on my projector in 3D Vision, and my immersion was far better on the projector. I think this was because the low-res kept reminding me that I was in a fake world, whereas with the projector I didn't have that distraction.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
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#7
Posted 08/23/2014 02:09 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]Good info, and worth noting that everyone is different. I personally didn't find DK1 compelling, but it depends upon what you play and what you are looking for. As I noted in a different thread, I had the opposite effect on HL2- it was so low res that I could not get any sense of immersion. I tried a back-to-back experiment of HL2 on DK1, then on my projector in 3D Vision, and my immersion was far better on the projector. I think this was because the low-res kept reminding me that I was in a fake world, whereas with the projector I didn't have that distraction.[/quote] One thing to keep in mind, DK1 didn't have low persistence. There have been a couple times when low-persistence has failed to engage on my DK2, and it's absolutely horrible. You move your head slightly and everything becomes a blurred mess. I'd literally throw a VR headset in the garbage if it didn't have low-persistence. For the love of anything good, I'm not sure how anyone could have possibly used DK1 on that issue alone. I find it an absolute showstopper.
bo3b said:Good info, and worth noting that everyone is different. I personally didn't find DK1 compelling, but it depends upon what you play and what you are looking for.

As I noted in a different thread, I had the opposite effect on HL2- it was so low res that I could not get any sense of immersion. I tried a back-to-back experiment of HL2 on DK1, then on my projector in 3D Vision, and my immersion was far better on the projector. I think this was because the low-res kept reminding me that I was in a fake world, whereas with the projector I didn't have that distraction.


One thing to keep in mind, DK1 didn't have low persistence. There have been a couple times when low-persistence has failed to engage on my DK2, and it's absolutely horrible. You move your head slightly and everything becomes a blurred mess. I'd literally throw a VR headset in the garbage if it didn't have low-persistence. For the love of anything good, I'm not sure how anyone could have possibly used DK1 on that issue alone. I find it an absolute showstopper.

#8
Posted 08/23/2014 03:09 PM   
Yep, me too. The low persistence was probably the part that made it unplayable, because even small head movements would smear out and distract me, and break the immersion. I sold mine on eBay. :-> Still, I'm sure you saw the overwhelming positive reviews of DK1. You literally could not find a negative comment early on. Even being charitable, I think the real story is that Rift will be a super niche product (<100K units) for at least a couple of years until the tech matures. That's assuming we don't get some sort of an anti-VR backlash from people who eventually realize it was overhyped. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Hype-Cycle-General.png[/img]
Yep, me too. The low persistence was probably the part that made it unplayable, because even small head movements would smear out and distract me, and break the immersion. I sold mine on eBay. :->

Still, I'm sure you saw the overwhelming positive reviews of DK1. You literally could not find a negative comment early on.


Even being charitable, I think the real story is that Rift will be a super niche product (<100K units) for at least a couple of years until the tech matures. That's assuming we don't get some sort of an anti-VR backlash from people who eventually realize it was overhyped.

Image

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#9
Posted 08/24/2014 12:19 AM   
Reading this post has sort of bummed me out, because I've been terribly excited about the OR, but I've already discovered and fallen in love with 3D Vision. Still looking forward, but my expectations are stymied a bit.
Reading this post has sort of bummed me out, because I've been terribly excited about the OR, but I've already discovered and fallen in love with 3D Vision.

Still looking forward, but my expectations are stymied a bit.

#10
Posted 08/24/2014 01:30 AM   
Do you have to justify your expensive rig, because of the Oculus Rift/VR? Or you are that kind of ppl, that need to say something against some new hyped stuff? Fakt is, OR/VR get a bigger support and its cheaper as a 3 Monitor Setup...face it :) An what do u expect as a 3D user? More 3D? its about the seemlees immersion and headtracking. I think even if i had my VR ill use my 3D Vison further. But anyway, i dont understand your article.
Do you have to justify your expensive rig, because of the Oculus Rift/VR? Or you are that kind of ppl, that need to say something against some new hyped stuff?

Fakt is, OR/VR get a bigger support and its cheaper as a 3 Monitor Setup...face it :)

An what do u expect as a 3D user? More 3D? its about the seemlees immersion and headtracking.

I think even if i had my VR ill use my 3D Vison further.

But anyway, i dont understand your article.

#11
Posted 08/24/2014 08:23 AM   
Read my argumentations an the following post above once more, and I´m sure you`ll understand it. 3D is still ignorated @ computergaming, maybe OR will change it. Also OR is totally overhyped ... thats what I wanted to say through the eyes of a 3D Vision gamer. I don´t have to justify anything. Why should I do that? It´s my money and my decision, isn´t it?
Read my argumentations an the following post above once more, and I´m sure you`ll understand it.

3D is still ignorated @ computergaming, maybe OR will change it.
Also OR is totally overhyped ... thats what I wanted to say through the eyes of a 3D Vision gamer.

I don´t have to justify anything. Why should I do that? It´s my money and my decision, isn´t it?
#12
Posted 08/24/2014 09:15 AM   
I have my DK2 right here but I won't be able to try it until next week, so I can't say much about how it compares, nice read though. One thing though, the latest Vorpx beta wrapper has been released yesterday with DK2 compatibility, so there's 100+ commercial games that can be played now on VR, check http://es.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2ed6jw/dk2_vorpx_update_apparently_released/ , there's a rather outdated compatibility list here that can be helpful: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvER3Bq0i6sgdHRWYUc3cWpRSFRFYzJIQWEzMkhGdGc&usp=sharing#gid=0
I have my DK2 right here but I won't be able to try it until next week, so I can't say much about how it compares, nice read though.

One thing though, the latest Vorpx beta wrapper has been released yesterday with DK2 compatibility, so there's 100+ commercial games that can be played now on VR, check http://es.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2ed6jw/dk2_vorpx_update_apparently_released/ , there's a rather outdated compatibility list here that can be helpful: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvER3Bq0i6sgdHRWYUc3cWpRSFRFYzJIQWEzMkhGdGc&usp=sharing#gid=0

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#13
Posted 08/24/2014 11:01 AM   
[quote="VMJ_Brecht"]Do you have to justify your expensive rig, because of the Oculus Rift/VR? Or you are that kind of ppl, that need to say something against some new hyped stuff? Fakt is, OR/VR get a bigger support and its cheaper as a 3 Monitor Setup...face it :) An what do u expect as a 3D user? More 3D? its about the seemlees immersion and headtracking. I think even if i had my VR ill use my 3D Vison further. But anyway, i dont understand your article. [/quote] My friend, I am also a 3D Surround User. I even fix games (that offer direct support) to run in Surround resolutions. If you don't know you can check https://www.widescreenfixer.org/ and http://3dsurroundgaming.com/ I also tried the VR1 kit and was totally unimpressed.... At the time there weren't many games that supported it anyway. Now I see the same thing.... NOT many games support it and if they DO, a lot of effects are disabled or some shiet.... Have you even tried to see a game in proper 3D (with 3D Vision & HelixMod/3DMigoto) and compare it to the Rift? If the RIFT had the support you boast it has I would instantly migrate to it and fix games there...but it hasn't, plus the hardware at the moment is below average IMO. Can't say what it will be in the future though.... But remember one universal rule..."You have what you pay for" :)
VMJ_Brecht said:Do you have to justify your expensive rig, because of the Oculus Rift/VR? Or you are that kind of ppl, that need to say something against some new hyped stuff?

Fakt is, OR/VR get a bigger support and its cheaper as a 3 Monitor Setup...face it :)

An what do u expect as a 3D user? More 3D? its about the seemlees immersion and headtracking.

I think even if i had my VR ill use my 3D Vison further.

But anyway, i dont understand your article.



My friend,

I am also a 3D Surround User. I even fix games (that offer direct support) to run in Surround resolutions. If you don't know you can check https://www.widescreenfixer.org/ and http://3dsurroundgaming.com/

I also tried the VR1 kit and was totally unimpressed.... At the time there weren't many games that supported it anyway. Now I see the same thing.... NOT many games support it and if they DO, a lot of effects are disabled or some shiet....

Have you even tried to see a game in proper 3D (with 3D Vision & HelixMod/3DMigoto) and compare it to the Rift?

If the RIFT had the support you boast it has I would instantly migrate to it and fix games there...but it hasn't, plus the hardware at the moment is below average IMO. Can't say what it will be in the future though.... But remember one universal rule..."You have what you pay for"
:)

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
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Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
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etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
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(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#14
Posted 08/24/2014 11:01 AM   
The best thing that ronrebell mentions several times is that it's a development kit. DK1 was trash compared with 3d vision but for me it screamed "potential" since the first moment I tried it, and DK2 even more, but it's not still there, as expected anyhow. I've checked the DK2 once at the GDC and image quality improved a lot vs dk1 but still way inferior to 3d vision, and overall a worse experience compared to 3d vision in every sense except the feeling of being there. For me the combination of huge FOV, 1:1 headtracking and perfect human scale makes it much better than 3d vision in that regard. For me this is key, and that's why I like VR so much, even with an overall inferior experience, others may not care that much.
The best thing that ronrebell mentions several times is that it's a development kit. DK1 was trash compared with 3d vision but for me it screamed "potential" since the first moment I tried it, and DK2 even more, but it's not still there, as expected anyhow.

I've checked the DK2 once at the GDC and image quality improved a lot vs dk1 but still way inferior to 3d vision, and overall a worse experience compared to 3d vision in every sense except the feeling of being there. For me the combination of huge FOV, 1:1 headtracking and perfect human scale makes it much better than 3d vision in that regard. For me this is key, and that's why I like VR so much, even with an overall inferior experience, others may not care that much.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#15
Posted 08/24/2014 02:29 PM   
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