DirectX 12 and 3Dmigoto
3dmigoto will be compatible with directx 12??
3dmigoto will be compatible with directx 12??

i7 4970k@4.5Ghz, SLI GTX1080Ti Aorus Gigabyte Xtreme, 16GB G Skill 2400hrz, 3*PG258Q in 3D surround.

#1
Posted 11/26/2014 11:01 PM   
There are no DX12 games out yet, or on the horizon (that I know of). So there's nothing to test against.
There are no DX12 games out yet, or on the horizon (that I know of). So there's nothing to test against.

#2
Posted 11/27/2014 01:24 AM   
The transition from DX9 to DX11 took 5 years. Say that again, 5 years. We are just barely, this year, getting more DX11 games than DX9. Mostly because of the consoles of course. If the consoles don't do DX12, there is no way any developer will make a DX12 game. When we get there in a couple of years, I expect to be able to add DX12 support, it's not that hard, but as Pirate notes, it's pointless at the moment. marketing == lies
The transition from DX9 to DX11 took 5 years. Say that again, 5 years.

We are just barely, this year, getting more DX11 games than DX9. Mostly because of the consoles of course.

If the consoles don't do DX12, there is no way any developer will make a DX12 game.


When we get there in a couple of years, I expect to be able to add DX12 support, it's not that hard, but as Pirate notes, it's pointless at the moment.

marketing == lies

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
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#3
Posted 11/27/2014 07:46 AM   
marketing=lies -OK, I agree, but in this case, DX12, for a change, brings some important features. Low level access, "cheaper" draw calls etc. - we need every bit of performance we can get. 3D requires a lot. For example - I can't afford to upgrade my gtx760 right now and I surely won't be able to afford any top (let say from 970 and above price range) cards ever. Low level access will be welcomed. I think we'll get games with 2 APIs - if a game works faster on DX12 than on DX11, we need DX12 support for 3D. Developers tend to ignore PC gamers needs, but PS4 has low level API (not DX) and Xone will have DX12. Developers mihgt be forced to use it... or just sell us the crap about "cinematic experience' ("24-30fps is good for you" BS), but then, the owners of slower CPUs won't even hit that 30fps, so I hope developers will move their asses (or rather shout loud enough, so the ignorant publisher agree to add additional work hours, since it's often a case of publisher's fault not programmer's). Just look at AC:Unity. They were so lazy, they ignored the lack of low level API and draw calls cripple the performance. I'm also afraid of the lazyness. It might be that DX12 on PC won't be properly used in this decade, if you look at console ports, where there's not even a streaming algorithm - you can clearly see how PC game publishers treat the gamers. The game wants to fit everything in video card memory, we get stutter on cards with 2GB, and why? Because there are detailed textures? Nope. PS4 cannot handle them with it's weak 50-70TMUs @800MHz. You can see it in tests - low textures vs. ultra - and 1% performance difference. It's just a crappy port issue. And it spreads :( Because publishers nowadays say "f..ck you, you don't matter, and if you don't like it, go buy faster PC", giving the same "we care about PC gamers" BS in the same time. Just look at Ubisoft or Microsoft. They couldn't careless about PC gaming. Watch Dogs, Dragon Age:Inquisition, Ryse, AC:U - all of them are ported "as is", without any regard to the architecture differences. No unified memory? Who cares? Let's make a game with textures of 1GB cards, that require 4-6GB to stop stuttering. 8-16GB RAM? Let's make a game that constantly use SSD/HDD to stream, while using 1/3 or 1/6 of available memory. And so on... So yeah - there is a chance that publishers will cause DX12 on PC to be dead for years. But I try to be optimistic.
marketing=lies -OK, I agree, but in this case, DX12, for a change, brings some important features.
Low level access, "cheaper" draw calls etc. - we need every bit of performance we can get. 3D requires a lot.
For example - I can't afford to upgrade my gtx760 right now and I surely won't be able to afford any top (let say from 970 and above price range) cards ever. Low level access will be welcomed.

I think we'll get games with 2 APIs - if a game works faster on DX12 than on DX11, we need DX12 support for 3D.

Developers tend to ignore PC gamers needs, but PS4 has low level API (not DX) and Xone will have DX12. Developers mihgt be forced to use it...
or just sell us the crap about "cinematic experience' ("24-30fps is good for you" BS), but then, the owners of slower CPUs won't even hit that 30fps, so I hope developers will move their asses (or rather shout loud enough, so the ignorant publisher agree to add additional work hours, since it's often a case of publisher's fault not programmer's).
Just look at AC:Unity. They were so lazy, they ignored the lack of low level API and draw calls cripple the performance.

I'm also afraid of the lazyness. It might be that DX12 on PC won't be properly used in this decade, if you look at console ports, where there's not even a streaming algorithm - you can clearly see how PC game publishers treat the gamers. The game wants to fit everything in video card memory, we get stutter on cards with 2GB, and why? Because there are detailed textures? Nope. PS4 cannot handle them with it's weak 50-70TMUs @800MHz. You can see it in tests - low textures vs. ultra - and 1% performance difference.
It's just a crappy port issue. And it spreads :(
Because publishers nowadays say "f..ck you, you don't matter, and if you don't like it, go buy faster PC", giving the same "we care about PC gamers" BS in the same time.
Just look at Ubisoft or Microsoft. They couldn't careless about PC gaming.
Watch Dogs, Dragon Age:Inquisition, Ryse, AC:U - all of them are ported "as is", without any regard to the architecture differences. No unified memory? Who cares? Let's make a game with textures of 1GB cards, that require 4-6GB to stop stuttering. 8-16GB RAM? Let's make a game that constantly use SSD/HDD to stream, while using 1/3 or 1/6 of available memory.
And so on...

So yeah - there is a chance that publishers will cause DX12 on PC to be dead for years.
But I try to be optimistic.

#4
Posted 11/27/2014 12:30 PM   
what about this: [url]https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsapps/Direct3D-111-Simple-Stereo-9b2b61aa[/url] why not developers integrate it into their games directx 11?
what about this:
https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsapps/Direct3D-111-Simple-Stereo-9b2b61aa

why not developers integrate it into their games directx 11?

i7 4970k@4.5Ghz, SLI GTX1080Ti Aorus Gigabyte Xtreme, 16GB G Skill 2400hrz, 3*PG258Q in 3D surround.

#5
Posted 11/27/2014 12:52 PM   
Such as life with business. Publishers/Developers will have to go where the money is and unfortunately the Console market reigns supreme. I am envious of console owners purely from publisher/developers that cater to these platforms. I despise the philosophy of the "one shoe fits all" and won't touch a console in their current designs. I would give up gaming if I had only the choice of console. I've been a PC gamer all my life and with the flood of PC games that can be modded including older ones can keep me busy for a lifetime. Newer games are obvious console ports suffering from consolitis. Please don't misunderstand, if you like your console, I envy you for the focus that these publishers/developers provide for your chosen platform. Unfortunately, game designs with the "one shoe fits all" mentality holds pc games back. Boxed into cells with limited options. DX11 will be around for awhile until it's capabilities are exhausted. Who knows where it will go from here, DX12 may be a technology not embraced....we'll see.
Such as life with business. Publishers/Developers will have to go where the money is and unfortunately the Console market reigns supreme. I am envious of console owners purely from publisher/developers that cater to these platforms. I despise the philosophy of the "one shoe fits all" and won't touch a console in their current designs. I would give up gaming if I had only the choice of console. I've been a PC gamer all my life and with the flood of PC games that can be modded including older ones can keep me busy for a lifetime. Newer games are obvious console ports suffering from consolitis. Please don't misunderstand, if you like your console, I envy you for the focus that these publishers/developers provide for your chosen platform. Unfortunately, game designs with the "one shoe fits all" mentality holds pc games back. Boxed into cells with limited options. DX11 will be around for awhile until it's capabilities are exhausted. Who knows where it will go from here, DX12 may be a technology not embraced....we'll see.

#6
Posted 11/27/2014 07:11 PM   
[quote="murilladas"]what about this: [url]https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsapps/Direct3D-111-Simple-Stereo-9b2b61aa[/url] why not developers integrate it into their games directx 11?[/quote] That's not DX12, that's 11.1, and it's the Win8.1 version of stereoscopic. It works, but I have yet to see anyone pick it up and use 11.1 on a game, because it's just too niche. I mean geez, 3D Vision is niche, but this requires Win8.1 + 3D Vision, which is an even smaller subset. Adoption of new tools and APIs is very, very slow, because most businesses cannot afford to ignore customers running old OSes and hardware.
murilladas said:what about this:
https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsapps/Direct3D-111-Simple-Stereo-9b2b61aa

why not developers integrate it into their games directx 11?

That's not DX12, that's 11.1, and it's the Win8.1 version of stereoscopic. It works, but I have yet to see anyone pick it up and use 11.1 on a game, because it's just too niche. I mean geez, 3D Vision is niche, but this requires Win8.1 + 3D Vision, which is an even smaller subset.

Adoption of new tools and APIs is very, very slow, because most businesses cannot afford to ignore customers running old OSes and hardware.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#7
Posted 11/28/2014 03:59 PM   
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