What many mind-sets do is lock on negatives and understandable -- and if you're looking for perfection or a mind-set that doesn't enjoy to tweak some-what -- you may be disappointed -- not every GeForce 3d Vision owner will be happy. I personally believe heavily in raising limitations so an end-user doesn't receive those "negative" surprises that give them that feeling they did get taken advantage of and actually get angry.
However, with limitations -- this technology is very impressive and raises the bar of immersion dramatically to many mind-sets and is a viable and exciting choice for gamers that are gaming experience driven. There are some gamers that only desire to play games and others that desire to experience them -- this feature delivers this. As with an early adoption process - there are hurdles to over-come -- technology from software to hardware to mature and improve -- but if one can't handle this -- well, be patient, wait to see if things improve to more of a mind-set's liking.
There is cross-talk and the more you add depth separation -- the more it may be noticed. The middle of the screen where most of the eye-sight line is-is actually impressive but toward the top and bottom of the screens there is more noticeable separation for some eyes -- a lot of this may be addressed by adding convergence to find the right balance and the key to some - balance. Every title may be a bit different so you have to experiment a bit with depth separation and convergence.
Words are the toughest thing when it comes to this technology and you may need to see first-hand and play around because you don't know what to believe and understandable. You may desire a jump in immersion but don't want to be stuck and paid monies for a ghosting mess.
Personally enjoy it but my mind-set is more lower depth separation with more convergence while others enjoy more depth separation but there is flexibility -- and hopefully improved abilities as this matures over time.[/quote]
Exactly... but I am damned glad that I am not limited as I always play at 100% and would really hate to be limited to anything lower. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />
What many mind-sets do is lock on negatives and understandable -- and if you're looking for perfection or a mind-set that doesn't enjoy to tweak some-what -- you may be disappointed -- not every GeForce 3d Vision owner will be happy. I personally believe heavily in raising limitations so an end-user doesn't receive those "negative" surprises that give them that feeling they did get taken advantage of and actually get angry.
However, with limitations -- this technology is very impressive and raises the bar of immersion dramatically to many mind-sets and is a viable and exciting choice for gamers that are gaming experience driven. There are some gamers that only desire to play games and others that desire to experience them -- this feature delivers this. As with an early adoption process - there are hurdles to over-come -- technology from software to hardware to mature and improve -- but if one can't handle this -- well, be patient, wait to see if things improve to more of a mind-set's liking.
There is cross-talk and the more you add depth separation -- the more it may be noticed. The middle of the screen where most of the eye-sight line is-is actually impressive but toward the top and bottom of the screens there is more noticeable separation for some eyes -- a lot of this may be addressed by adding convergence to find the right balance and the key to some - balance. Every title may be a bit different so you have to experiment a bit with depth separation and convergence.
Words are the toughest thing when it comes to this technology and you may need to see first-hand and play around because you don't know what to believe and understandable. You may desire a jump in immersion but don't want to be stuck and paid monies for a ghosting mess.
Personally enjoy it but my mind-set is more lower depth separation with more convergence while others enjoy more depth separation but there is flexibility -- and hopefully improved abilities as this matures over time.
Exactly... but I am damned glad that I am not limited as I always play at 100% and would really hate to be limited to anything lower. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='554697' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:55 PM']Exactly... but I am damned glad that I am not limited as I always play at 100% and would really hate to be limited to anything lower. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />[/quote]
That's how you roll!:) Choices and flexibility are a gamer's best friend to me.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='554697' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:55 PM']Exactly... but I am damned glad that I am not limited as I always play at 100% and would really hate to be limited to anything lower. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />
That's how you roll!:) Choices and flexibility are a gamer's best friend to me.
[quote name='SirPauly' post='554699' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:05 AM']That's how you roll!:) Choices and flexibility are a gamer's best friend to me.[/quote]
I know... that is why I am not on board with limitation. That's all. Otherwise I completely agree with you.
Lol I agree with Chris. Ghosting has never been my problem. I just tried a few games and I reallly have to look to find ghosting. Theres not one time that ALL my friends said they see ghosting. If everyone you show it to sees ghosting then maybe you should RMA your monitor. And if its your 1st time then set the 3d to very low and build from there. I cant even imagine cranking the brightness to max lol. I find I am turning it down at times not up.
Lol I agree with Chris. Ghosting has never been my problem. I just tried a few games and I reallly have to look to find ghosting. Theres not one time that ALL my friends said they see ghosting. If everyone you show it to sees ghosting then maybe you should RMA your monitor. And if its your 1st time then set the 3d to very low and build from there. I cant even imagine cranking the brightness to max lol. I find I am turning it down at times not up.
I have tried switching to 110 Hz (for a different reason: to eliminate flickering and IR interference) and I didn't notice much change in ghosting. I have noticed, however, that the ghosting is most severe on objects that are at max brightness such as the moon or snow highlights in World of Warcraft. It doesn't seem to be a gradual increase in visible ghosting, either. It's almost as if the ghosting appears right when the brightness goes over a 254 value and hits a 255. I know those aren't necessarily the right terms but that's the best way I can explain it without taking a photograph (at work right now).
I have tried switching to 110 Hz (for a different reason: to eliminate flickering and IR interference) and I didn't notice much change in ghosting. I have noticed, however, that the ghosting is most severe on objects that are at max brightness such as the moon or snow highlights in World of Warcraft. It doesn't seem to be a gradual increase in visible ghosting, either. It's almost as if the ghosting appears right when the brightness goes over a 254 value and hits a 255. I know those aren't necessarily the right terms but that's the best way I can explain it without taking a photograph (at work right now).
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554634' date='Jun 19 2009, 02:36 PM']don't put it at 100%. :P I never play with mine above about 60% max. Provides plenty of depth without hurting my eyes/head.
Nobody gets "NO ghosting". Ghosting happens, it's a fact of current stereo technology. But it's far less in 3d Vision than any other stereo tech,[/quote]
I agree with this opinion with 1000....0000 %
His answer is correct !!!
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554634' date='Jun 19 2009, 02:36 PM']don't put it at 100%. :P I never play with mine above about 60% max. Provides plenty of depth without hurting my eyes/head.
Nobody gets "NO ghosting". Ghosting happens, it's a fact of current stereo technology. But it's far less in 3d Vision than any other stereo tech,
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.[/quote]
Hmm, using that test, my monitor doesn't ghost too bad at all. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
Hmm, using that test, my monitor doesn't ghost too bad at all. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554666' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:36 AM']"It's too bright & I get ghosting if I turn the brightness up all the way." -- then don't turn the brightness up all the way.[/quote]
I'm hoping this wasn't directed at those with 2233rz's with no choice in the matter but to play at 100% brightness at all times in 3D >_>
I'm not stuck on a negative mindset here. I love the 3D effect and it's great in darker games and games with less white (Portal and Mirror's Edge are straight up un-playable at anything higher than 30% depth if you ask me). I just see ghosting in almost every scene, and it's anything but a minimal or "you have to be looking to notice" type of thing. It sticks out like a sore thumb and diverts attention away from what you should be looking at, especially in fast-paced games where split-second attention is very important. 3D Vision works almost perfectly in L4D, but not many games are lucky enough to be entirely set at night.
When I first encountered ghosting and was made aware that all LCD shutter methods cause it, I was willing to accept it, especially when I was told turning the brightness down would greatly reduce it. It was when I realized that said brightness is [i]locked[/i] at 100% in 3D not only through the 2233rz, but also forced through the Nvidia control panel, that I decided that it might not have been as worth the $600 as I thought it would be.
Unfortunately changing it to 110 Hz not only didn't reduce the ghosting, but also added a noticeable flicker to the screen. This is odd, and makes me think there's something wrong with these glasses, because at 100 Hz the flicker is much less noticeable.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554666' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:36 AM']"It's too bright & I get ghosting if I turn the brightness up all the way." -- then don't turn the brightness up all the way.
I'm hoping this wasn't directed at those with 2233rz's with no choice in the matter but to play at 100% brightness at all times in 3D >_>
I'm not stuck on a negative mindset here. I love the 3D effect and it's great in darker games and games with less white (Portal and Mirror's Edge are straight up un-playable at anything higher than 30% depth if you ask me). I just see ghosting in almost every scene, and it's anything but a minimal or "you have to be looking to notice" type of thing. It sticks out like a sore thumb and diverts attention away from what you should be looking at, especially in fast-paced games where split-second attention is very important. 3D Vision works almost perfectly in L4D, but not many games are lucky enough to be entirely set at night.
When I first encountered ghosting and was made aware that all LCD shutter methods cause it, I was willing to accept it, especially when I was told turning the brightness down would greatly reduce it. It was when I realized that said brightness is locked at 100% in 3D not only through the 2233rz, but also forced through the Nvidia control panel, that I decided that it might not have been as worth the $600 as I thought it would be.
Unfortunately changing it to 110 Hz not only didn't reduce the ghosting, but also added a noticeable flicker to the screen. This is odd, and makes me think there's something wrong with these glasses, because at 100 Hz the flicker is much less noticeable.
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.[/quote]
I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554878' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:45 PM']I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?[/quote]
So yeah, I pretty much have to remember to look for ghosting to be bugged by it, regardless of what issues you might have, that does not mean that everyone else shares them.
Also, Mirror's Edge looks and plays incredible at 100%. Others might share your problems but I do not. This solution has less ghosting than any other I have used.
Edit: quoted wrong person, but I think you can figure out who I am responding to.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554878' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:45 PM']I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?
So yeah, I pretty much have to remember to look for ghosting to be bugged by it, regardless of what issues you might have, that does not mean that everyone else shares them.
Also, Mirror's Edge looks and plays incredible at 100%. Others might share your problems but I do not. This solution has less ghosting than any other I have used.
Edit: quoted wrong person, but I think you can figure out who I am responding to.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554878' date='Jun 19 2009, 02:45 PM']I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?[/quote]
This test chart puts white in one eye and black in the other eye at various intensities. When you view it as a 3d image, close one eye, and look at the grey bars. There is writing that says left eye white ghosting and it has an arrow pointing to a column. THe column looks black, but it actually will be close to one of the bars that is to the left. It says 0% or 10%... Then you have black ghosting, this is the same thing, you find the square that matches the column. Make sure when you close one eye that the correct L or R appears in the bottom right side. It only works when you are viewing the 3d image and you have the glasses on and the shutter is working and you are looking through just one eye. So, close one eye, go to the correct column and find the % block that is even with the adjacent block. For example, on my display, left white ghosting on the top set of stuff is almost 0%. Left black ghosting is about 5%. This is an absolute way to see if there is really something wrong with your display and how bad your ghosting really is in a direct comparison to anyone else. No more wondering how bad someones ghosting really is, you can say, I get x% ghosting of this kind.
Think about what ghosting is. Its when one eye has a bright pixel and the other eye has a dark pixel. Everyone knows that if you have a 100% white pixel in the left eye and 100% black pixel in the right eye, you get ghosting. Welcome to hell, this is how this technology works. Everyone knows there is ghosting. You can screw everything up if you crank the brightness way up. THats because you dont get just some pixels hitting pure white, you get way more hitting pure white, that means, more ghosting. You can also screw this balance up by cranking the gamma up in a game where everything is very bright. The point of the test should make sense then. What we want to know is, how big does the difference have to be to cause ghosting. We already know that when you are pure white in one eye and pure black in the other it will ghost. THis is because the pixel cannot go from full bright to off in 120hz. It just cant. So what about 90% bright to ful dark. What about 80% bright to full dark. That is what this chart does. It just uses "gray ramps" like all calibration methods. Basically, most monitor calibration techniques use this method of setting the display brightness and contrast. If you dont set the brightness and contrast or know how to, you simply cannot get the best out of your display. You are going to burn out the highlights or the darks for sure. There is only one spot where all these adjustments reach maximum quality. I will give you a hint. Its not 100% brightness. This is going to cause way too much ghosting. I think people dont like the display getting dim. It is better to adjust the gamma, but even there you can go too far and crank the gamma way up. Also, Magicbright, probably will hose everything. I dont use it. I dont know what impact it has, but I bet it will not be good.
[quote name='Chris-NYC' post='554878' date='Jun 19 2009, 02:45 PM']I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?
This test chart puts white in one eye and black in the other eye at various intensities. When you view it as a 3d image, close one eye, and look at the grey bars. There is writing that says left eye white ghosting and it has an arrow pointing to a column. THe column looks black, but it actually will be close to one of the bars that is to the left. It says 0% or 10%... Then you have black ghosting, this is the same thing, you find the square that matches the column. Make sure when you close one eye that the correct L or R appears in the bottom right side. It only works when you are viewing the 3d image and you have the glasses on and the shutter is working and you are looking through just one eye. So, close one eye, go to the correct column and find the % block that is even with the adjacent block. For example, on my display, left white ghosting on the top set of stuff is almost 0%. Left black ghosting is about 5%. This is an absolute way to see if there is really something wrong with your display and how bad your ghosting really is in a direct comparison to anyone else. No more wondering how bad someones ghosting really is, you can say, I get x% ghosting of this kind.
Think about what ghosting is. Its when one eye has a bright pixel and the other eye has a dark pixel. Everyone knows that if you have a 100% white pixel in the left eye and 100% black pixel in the right eye, you get ghosting. Welcome to hell, this is how this technology works. Everyone knows there is ghosting. You can screw everything up if you crank the brightness way up. THats because you dont get just some pixels hitting pure white, you get way more hitting pure white, that means, more ghosting. You can also screw this balance up by cranking the gamma up in a game where everything is very bright. The point of the test should make sense then. What we want to know is, how big does the difference have to be to cause ghosting. We already know that when you are pure white in one eye and pure black in the other it will ghost. THis is because the pixel cannot go from full bright to off in 120hz. It just cant. So what about 90% bright to ful dark. What about 80% bright to full dark. That is what this chart does. It just uses "gray ramps" like all calibration methods. Basically, most monitor calibration techniques use this method of setting the display brightness and contrast. If you dont set the brightness and contrast or know how to, you simply cannot get the best out of your display. You are going to burn out the highlights or the darks for sure. There is only one spot where all these adjustments reach maximum quality. I will give you a hint. Its not 100% brightness. This is going to cause way too much ghosting. I think people dont like the display getting dim. It is better to adjust the gamma, but even there you can go too far and crank the gamma way up. Also, Magicbright, probably will hose everything. I dont use it. I dont know what impact it has, but I bet it will not be good.
What many mind-sets do is lock on negatives and understandable -- and if you're looking for perfection or a mind-set that doesn't enjoy to tweak some-what -- you may be disappointed -- not every GeForce 3d Vision owner will be happy. I personally believe heavily in raising limitations so an end-user doesn't receive those "negative" surprises that give them that feeling they did get taken advantage of and actually get angry.
However, with limitations -- this technology is very impressive and raises the bar of immersion dramatically to many mind-sets and is a viable and exciting choice for gamers that are gaming experience driven. There are some gamers that only desire to play games and others that desire to experience them -- this feature delivers this. As with an early adoption process - there are hurdles to over-come -- technology from software to hardware to mature and improve -- but if one can't handle this -- well, be patient, wait to see if things improve to more of a mind-set's liking.
There is cross-talk and the more you add depth separation -- the more it may be noticed. The middle of the screen where most of the eye-sight line is-is actually impressive but toward the top and bottom of the screens there is more noticeable separation for some eyes -- a lot of this may be addressed by adding convergence to find the right balance and the key to some - balance. Every title may be a bit different so you have to experiment a bit with depth separation and convergence.
Words are the toughest thing when it comes to this technology and you may need to see first-hand and play around because you don't know what to believe and understandable. You may desire a jump in immersion but don't want to be stuck and paid monies for a ghosting mess.
Personally enjoy it but my mind-set is more lower depth separation with more convergence while others enjoy more depth separation but there is flexibility -- and hopefully improved abilities as this matures over time.[/quote]
Exactly... but I am damned glad that I am not limited as I always play at 100% and would really hate to be limited to anything lower.
What many mind-sets do is lock on negatives and understandable -- and if you're looking for perfection or a mind-set that doesn't enjoy to tweak some-what -- you may be disappointed -- not every GeForce 3d Vision owner will be happy. I personally believe heavily in raising limitations so an end-user doesn't receive those "negative" surprises that give them that feeling they did get taken advantage of and actually get angry.
However, with limitations -- this technology is very impressive and raises the bar of immersion dramatically to many mind-sets and is a viable and exciting choice for gamers that are gaming experience driven. There are some gamers that only desire to play games and others that desire to experience them -- this feature delivers this. As with an early adoption process - there are hurdles to over-come -- technology from software to hardware to mature and improve -- but if one can't handle this -- well, be patient, wait to see if things improve to more of a mind-set's liking.
There is cross-talk and the more you add depth separation -- the more it may be noticed. The middle of the screen where most of the eye-sight line is-is actually impressive but toward the top and bottom of the screens there is more noticeable separation for some eyes -- a lot of this may be addressed by adding convergence to find the right balance and the key to some - balance. Every title may be a bit different so you have to experiment a bit with depth separation and convergence.
Words are the toughest thing when it comes to this technology and you may need to see first-hand and play around because you don't know what to believe and understandable. You may desire a jump in immersion but don't want to be stuck and paid monies for a ghosting mess.
Personally enjoy it but my mind-set is more lower depth separation with more convergence while others enjoy more depth separation but there is flexibility -- and hopefully improved abilities as this matures over time.
Exactly... but I am damned glad that I am not limited as I always play at 100% and would really hate to be limited to anything lower.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
That's how you roll!:) Choices and flexibility are a gamer's best friend to me.
That's how you roll!:) Choices and flexibility are a gamer's best friend to me.
I know... that is why I am not on board with limitation. That's all. Otherwise I completely agree with you.
I know... that is why I am not on board with limitation. That's all. Otherwise I completely agree with you.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Just a question.
has anyone tried switching to 110 Hz mode (from the 3D Vision Setup Wizard) and seeing if that improves your ghosting experiences?
Just a question.
has anyone tried switching to 110 Hz mode (from the 3D Vision Setup Wizard) and seeing if that improves your ghosting experiences?
Just a question.
has anyone tried switching to 110 Hz mode (from the 3D Vision Setup Wizard) and seeing if that improves your ghosting experiences?[/quote]
No, have not tried that but will give it a try!
Just a question.
has anyone tried switching to 110 Hz mode (from the 3D Vision Setup Wizard) and seeing if that improves your ghosting experiences?
No, have not tried that but will give it a try!
Nobody gets "NO ghosting". Ghosting happens, it's a fact of current stereo technology. But it's far less in 3d Vision than any other stereo tech,[/quote]
I agree with this opinion with 1000....0000 %
His answer is correct !!!
Nobody gets "NO ghosting". Ghosting happens, it's a fact of current stereo technology. But it's far less in 3d Vision than any other stereo tech,
I agree with this opinion with 1000....0000 %
His answer is correct !!!
i7 8700K @4.9
GTX1080Ti
Asrock Z370 Gamming K6
Windows10 64bit
LG OLED UHD 3dtv 55E6K
[url="http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/ghosting_test_1680x1050_P.jps"]http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/gho...1680x1050_P.jps[/url]
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/gho...1680x1050_P.jps
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
[url="http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/ghosting_test_1680x1050_P.jps"]http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/gho...1680x1050_P.jps[/url]
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.[/quote]
Hmm, using that test, my monitor doesn't ghost too bad at all.
http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/gho...1680x1050_P.jps
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
Hmm, using that test, my monitor doesn't ghost too bad at all.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
I'm hoping this wasn't directed at those with 2233rz's with no choice in the matter but to play at 100% brightness at all times in 3D >_>
I'm not stuck on a negative mindset here. I love the 3D effect and it's great in darker games and games with less white (Portal and Mirror's Edge are straight up un-playable at anything higher than 30% depth if you ask me). I just see ghosting in almost every scene, and it's anything but a minimal or "you have to be looking to notice" type of thing. It sticks out like a sore thumb and diverts attention away from what you should be looking at, especially in fast-paced games where split-second attention is very important. 3D Vision works almost perfectly in L4D, but not many games are lucky enough to be entirely set at night.
When I first encountered ghosting and was made aware that all LCD shutter methods cause it, I was willing to accept it, especially when I was told turning the brightness down would greatly reduce it. It was when I realized that said brightness is [i]locked[/i] at 100% in 3D not only through the 2233rz, but also forced through the Nvidia control panel, that I decided that it might not have been as worth the $600 as I thought it would be.
Unfortunately changing it to 110 Hz not only didn't reduce the ghosting, but also added a noticeable flicker to the screen. This is odd, and makes me think there's something wrong with these glasses, because at 100 Hz the flicker is much less noticeable.
I'm hoping this wasn't directed at those with 2233rz's with no choice in the matter but to play at 100% brightness at all times in 3D >_>
I'm not stuck on a negative mindset here. I love the 3D effect and it's great in darker games and games with less white (Portal and Mirror's Edge are straight up un-playable at anything higher than 30% depth if you ask me). I just see ghosting in almost every scene, and it's anything but a minimal or "you have to be looking to notice" type of thing. It sticks out like a sore thumb and diverts attention away from what you should be looking at, especially in fast-paced games where split-second attention is very important. 3D Vision works almost perfectly in L4D, but not many games are lucky enough to be entirely set at night.
When I first encountered ghosting and was made aware that all LCD shutter methods cause it, I was willing to accept it, especially when I was told turning the brightness down would greatly reduce it. It was when I realized that said brightness is locked at 100% in 3D not only through the 2233rz, but also forced through the Nvidia control panel, that I decided that it might not have been as worth the $600 as I thought it would be.
Unfortunately changing it to 110 Hz not only didn't reduce the ghosting, but also added a noticeable flicker to the screen. This is odd, and makes me think there's something wrong with these glasses, because at 100 Hz the flicker is much less noticeable.
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[url="http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/ghosting_test_1680x1050_P.jps"]http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/gho...1680x1050_P.jps[/url]
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.[/quote]
I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?
http://home.comcast.net/~scstudios/vid/gho...1680x1050_P.jps
Its a 3d still image, so view it with the 3d still image viewer. Make sure you can see the correct L or R for each eye in the bottom right. You basically end up with 8 different readings for this as the top and bottom of the screen have different ghosting amount. yup, thats no misprint. It varies from top to bottom. So all you people with ghosting problems. Post you scores. For example, close one eye, look at the left eye marker, read off the % that the column reads. You should have 4 readings for the top, and 4 for the bottom. They will not be the same.
I got as far as "open it in the stereoscopic viewer" and then you lost me. lol What am I supposed to look for?
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So yeah, I pretty much have to remember to look for ghosting to be bugged by it, regardless of what issues you might have, that does not mean that everyone else shares them.
Also, Mirror's Edge looks and plays incredible at 100%. Others might share your problems but I do not. This solution has less ghosting than any other I have used.
Edit: quoted wrong person, but I think you can figure out who I am responding to.
So yeah, I pretty much have to remember to look for ghosting to be bugged by it, regardless of what issues you might have, that does not mean that everyone else shares them.
Also, Mirror's Edge looks and plays incredible at 100%. Others might share your problems but I do not. This solution has less ghosting than any other I have used.
Edit: quoted wrong person, but I think you can figure out who I am responding to.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
This test chart puts white in one eye and black in the other eye at various intensities. When you view it as a 3d image, close one eye, and look at the grey bars. There is writing that says left eye white ghosting and it has an arrow pointing to a column. THe column looks black, but it actually will be close to one of the bars that is to the left. It says 0% or 10%... Then you have black ghosting, this is the same thing, you find the square that matches the column. Make sure when you close one eye that the correct L or R appears in the bottom right side. It only works when you are viewing the 3d image and you have the glasses on and the shutter is working and you are looking through just one eye. So, close one eye, go to the correct column and find the % block that is even with the adjacent block. For example, on my display, left white ghosting on the top set of stuff is almost 0%. Left black ghosting is about 5%. This is an absolute way to see if there is really something wrong with your display and how bad your ghosting really is in a direct comparison to anyone else. No more wondering how bad someones ghosting really is, you can say, I get x% ghosting of this kind.
Think about what ghosting is. Its when one eye has a bright pixel and the other eye has a dark pixel. Everyone knows that if you have a 100% white pixel in the left eye and 100% black pixel in the right eye, you get ghosting. Welcome to hell, this is how this technology works. Everyone knows there is ghosting. You can screw everything up if you crank the brightness way up. THats because you dont get just some pixels hitting pure white, you get way more hitting pure white, that means, more ghosting. You can also screw this balance up by cranking the gamma up in a game where everything is very bright. The point of the test should make sense then. What we want to know is, how big does the difference have to be to cause ghosting. We already know that when you are pure white in one eye and pure black in the other it will ghost. THis is because the pixel cannot go from full bright to off in 120hz. It just cant. So what about 90% bright to ful dark. What about 80% bright to full dark. That is what this chart does. It just uses "gray ramps" like all calibration methods. Basically, most monitor calibration techniques use this method of setting the display brightness and contrast. If you dont set the brightness and contrast or know how to, you simply cannot get the best out of your display. You are going to burn out the highlights or the darks for sure. There is only one spot where all these adjustments reach maximum quality. I will give you a hint. Its not 100% brightness. This is going to cause way too much ghosting. I think people dont like the display getting dim. It is better to adjust the gamma, but even there you can go too far and crank the gamma way up. Also, Magicbright, probably will hose everything. I dont use it. I dont know what impact it has, but I bet it will not be good.
This test chart puts white in one eye and black in the other eye at various intensities. When you view it as a 3d image, close one eye, and look at the grey bars. There is writing that says left eye white ghosting and it has an arrow pointing to a column. THe column looks black, but it actually will be close to one of the bars that is to the left. It says 0% or 10%... Then you have black ghosting, this is the same thing, you find the square that matches the column. Make sure when you close one eye that the correct L or R appears in the bottom right side. It only works when you are viewing the 3d image and you have the glasses on and the shutter is working and you are looking through just one eye. So, close one eye, go to the correct column and find the % block that is even with the adjacent block. For example, on my display, left white ghosting on the top set of stuff is almost 0%. Left black ghosting is about 5%. This is an absolute way to see if there is really something wrong with your display and how bad your ghosting really is in a direct comparison to anyone else. No more wondering how bad someones ghosting really is, you can say, I get x% ghosting of this kind.
Think about what ghosting is. Its when one eye has a bright pixel and the other eye has a dark pixel. Everyone knows that if you have a 100% white pixel in the left eye and 100% black pixel in the right eye, you get ghosting. Welcome to hell, this is how this technology works. Everyone knows there is ghosting. You can screw everything up if you crank the brightness way up. THats because you dont get just some pixels hitting pure white, you get way more hitting pure white, that means, more ghosting. You can also screw this balance up by cranking the gamma up in a game where everything is very bright. The point of the test should make sense then. What we want to know is, how big does the difference have to be to cause ghosting. We already know that when you are pure white in one eye and pure black in the other it will ghost. THis is because the pixel cannot go from full bright to off in 120hz. It just cant. So what about 90% bright to ful dark. What about 80% bright to full dark. That is what this chart does. It just uses "gray ramps" like all calibration methods. Basically, most monitor calibration techniques use this method of setting the display brightness and contrast. If you dont set the brightness and contrast or know how to, you simply cannot get the best out of your display. You are going to burn out the highlights or the darks for sure. There is only one spot where all these adjustments reach maximum quality. I will give you a hint. Its not 100% brightness. This is going to cause way too much ghosting. I think people dont like the display getting dim. It is better to adjust the gamma, but even there you can go too far and crank the gamma way up. Also, Magicbright, probably will hose everything. I dont use it. I dont know what impact it has, but I bet it will not be good.
on the top black background i have
0% left white ghosting
10% left black ghosting
10% right white ghosting
10% right black ghosting
bottom white background
10% left white ghosting
50% left black ghosting
10% right white ghosting
50% right black ghosting
on the top black background i have
0% left white ghosting
10% left black ghosting
10% right white ghosting
10% right black ghosting
bottom white background
10% left white ghosting
50% left black ghosting
10% right white ghosting
50% right black ghosting
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