He talks about it near the end of the recording. In another video on Game Informer he says he is not a 3D fan at all.
This is really disappointing as Oblivion is one of my favorite games in 3D. Hopefully NVidia can at least convince them to have shadows render correctly etc.
Some people see 3D and love it (like me)
Some people see 3D and aren't impressed (like Todd Howard)
Some people have never seen 3D but hate it :-)
He talks about it near the end of the recording. In another video on Game Informer he says he is not a 3D fan at all.
This is really disappointing as Oblivion is one of my favorite games in 3D. Hopefully NVidia can at least convince them to have shadows render correctly etc.
Some people see 3D and love it (like me)
Some people see 3D and aren't impressed (like Todd Howard)
Bethesda are second tier console dx9 developer and ID are second tier console devs too, just like ubisoft and their crappy inhouse studios . /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />
I don't know how ubisoft managed to publish the il-2 sequel.
Shame cuz I really liked Doom3 on CRT.
Bethesda are second tier console dx9 developer and ID are second tier console devs too, just like ubisoft and their crappy inhouse studios . /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />
I don't know how ubisoft managed to publish the il-2 sequel.
I'd say its hard to be impressed by s3d when you've worked a long time in the games development industry and frequently witnessed the evolution of models as meshes, skeletons, textures were applied. You would have a greater appreciation for the end result and think it turned out looking amazing, and then people would come along and say it looks better in s3d and you'd get frustrated and think to yourself "its the EXACT same experience as normal 3d, just with stupid pop-out effects!. The models are no different,the level of detail is essentially the same. S3D would be nothing without the detail our modelers apply for standard 3d rendering, so lets just refine the current formula that we've succeeded with."
When you try something new while harboring a negative preconception (whether consciously or not) you usually end up hating it regardless of its merits. But then I don't know whats going on in his head, this is all conjecture. He could very well be playing the wait and see game instead of risking (I know it probably couldn't even be considered a risk since Skyrim is virtually guaranteed to sell millions) implementing a technology that isn't in mainstream usage.
Regardless, this news makes me a sad panda. Look on the bright side, renaming Skyrim.exe to ofdr.exe will fix the problems /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />
I'd say its hard to be impressed by s3d when you've worked a long time in the games development industry and frequently witnessed the evolution of models as meshes, skeletons, textures were applied. You would have a greater appreciation for the end result and think it turned out looking amazing, and then people would come along and say it looks better in s3d and you'd get frustrated and think to yourself "its the EXACT same experience as normal 3d, just with stupid pop-out effects!. The models are no different,the level of detail is essentially the same. S3D would be nothing without the detail our modelers apply for standard 3d rendering, so lets just refine the current formula that we've succeeded with."
When you try something new while harboring a negative preconception (whether consciously or not) you usually end up hating it regardless of its merits. But then I don't know whats going on in his head, this is all conjecture. He could very well be playing the wait and see game instead of risking (I know it probably couldn't even be considered a risk since Skyrim is virtually guaranteed to sell millions) implementing a technology that isn't in mainstream usage.
Regardless, this news makes me a sad panda. Look on the bright side, renaming Skyrim.exe to ofdr.exe will fix the problems /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />
That's not the first time that somebody at Bethesda said that. Around six months ago, somebody (forgot who - maybe Howard again) said S3D added nothing and he wouldn't ever add support for it to his games. But Bethesda doesn't really have a choice - the drivers have been working pretty well with their games. After seeing his comments, I promptly posted a few Fallout 3 videos on YouTube just to drive home the point.
Thank you NVIDIA for making up for Tom Howard's luddite attitude!
That's not the first time that somebody at Bethesda said that. Around six months ago, somebody (forgot who - maybe Howard again) said S3D added nothing and he wouldn't ever add support for it to his games. But Bethesda doesn't really have a choice - the drivers have been working pretty well with their games. After seeing his comments, I promptly posted a few Fallout 3 videos on YouTube just to drive home the point.
Thank you NVIDIA for making up for Tom Howard's luddite attitude!
I'm pretty sure he is just begging the question. I seriously doubt he's looked at 3d gaming for more than a couple of seconds, if at all. It isn't really something you can quantify within such a ridiculously short amount of time. Sure, there are some gee whiz feelings early on sometimes, but it is the subtlety that becomes apparent when actually playing a game through in 3d that really makes it all worth while.
I'm pretty sure he is just begging the question. I seriously doubt he's looked at 3d gaming for more than a couple of seconds, if at all. It isn't really something you can quantify within such a ridiculously short amount of time. Sure, there are some gee whiz feelings early on sometimes, but it is the subtlety that becomes apparent when actually playing a game through in 3d that really makes it all worth while.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
Maybe he's talking mainly about PS3 S3D support (I didn't listen to the podcast, far too long), which is probably a lot more hard work than on the PC where you just let the nvidia drivers handle everything. TBH as long as you don't get into an fancy rendering techniques, 3D just works anyway on the PC. Oblivion had no S3D support, neither did Fallout 3 or Vegas, but they can be made to work great in stereo.
Maybe he's talking mainly about PS3 S3D support (I didn't listen to the podcast, far too long), which is probably a lot more hard work than on the PC where you just let the nvidia drivers handle everything. TBH as long as you don't get into an fancy rendering techniques, 3D just works anyway on the PC. Oblivion had no S3D support, neither did Fallout 3 or Vegas, but they can be made to work great in stereo.
[quote name='fish99' date='05 February 2011 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1296874429' post='1189132']
Maybe he's talking mainly about PS3 S3D support (I didn't listen to the podcast, far too long), which is probably a lot more hard work than on the PC where you just let the nvidia drivers handle everything. TBH as long as you don't get into an fancy rendering techniques, 3D just works anyway on the PC. Oblivion had no S3D support, neither did Fallout 3 or Vegas, but they can be made to work great in stereo.
[/quote]
you don't follow zenimax ( Bethesda , ID ) talk, they *really* think 3d has no place in their products, EA is even funnier.
[quote name='fish99' date='05 February 2011 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1296874429' post='1189132']
Maybe he's talking mainly about PS3 S3D support (I didn't listen to the podcast, far too long), which is probably a lot more hard work than on the PC where you just let the nvidia drivers handle everything. TBH as long as you don't get into an fancy rendering techniques, 3D just works anyway on the PC. Oblivion had no S3D support, neither did Fallout 3 or Vegas, but they can be made to work great in stereo.
you don't follow zenimax ( Bethesda , ID ) talk, they *really* think 3d has no place in their products, EA is even funnier.
Since they already admitted the "new" engine is supposedly a revamped version of the old one, albeit rebuilt, then we should be okay since we should be able to tweak a lot of things with the .ini file and fix the sky issue as usual.
Since they already admitted the "new" engine is supposedly a revamped version of the old one, albeit rebuilt, then we should be okay since we should be able to tweak a lot of things with the .ini file and fix the sky issue as usual.
[quote name='Xerion404' date='05 February 2011 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1296916154' post='1189276']
Maybe Todd Howard can't even see stereoscopy and has an irrational hatred of people who can because of it /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
[/quote]
Somebody find out Ken Levine's opinion on the matter. If he's gung-ho for S3D, we're going to have some serious irony here. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
[quote name='Xerion404' date='05 February 2011 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1296916154' post='1189276']
Maybe Todd Howard can't even see stereoscopy and has an irrational hatred of people who can because of it /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
Somebody find out Ken Levine's opinion on the matter. If he's gung-ho for S3D, we're going to have some serious irony here. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
I hardly believe it ! I always thought bethesda were big on the virtual reality thing... And Tom Howard doesn't like 3d.... ? /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />
I thought skyrim was going to run on the tech 5 engine, and that they were having problems with its suitedness to open spaces... Guess that was all rumor !
I hardly believe it ! I always thought bethesda were big on the virtual reality thing... And Tom Howard doesn't like 3d.... ? /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />
I thought skyrim was going to run on the tech 5 engine, and that they were having problems with its suitedness to open spaces... Guess that was all rumor !
When you spend all your time making games, you really don't have time to play them anymore. Todd Howard is not a gamer, he doesn't give two craps about games in general. He just wants his paycheck and then he goes home to relax. Game developers stress out everyday and they are underpaid. The last thing he'd want to do is worry about extra programming for 3D.
3D needs to be built into DirectX where you simply type:
D3D.Stereo3dEnabled = True
.... and you're freaking done. Microsoft needs to get their act together and add stereo 3d support at it's core.
NVIDIA's 3D tech is a sloppy hack job. I mean come on, hard coding profiles into a DLL? how sloppy is that? The profiling methods are not even available to the community, the SDK is horrible, they can't even make a freaking 3d mouse cursor which should only take them 2 freaking seconds.
Stereo 3D is doomed to fail partly due to the fact that the golden age in the United States is over. Technology isn't progressing as fast. Other countries have faster bandwidth than us already.
Anyone who doesn't like S3D is a piece of sh*t and not a gamer. lol :P Ok I vented, I feel much better now.
If I was working at NVIDIA, everyone's issues would be solved and perfected because I would treat them with respect from one gamer to another. I'd also be involved heavily with the community. To push a unique technology forward you must dedicated your LIFE.
When you spend all your time making games, you really don't have time to play them anymore. Todd Howard is not a gamer, he doesn't give two craps about games in general. He just wants his paycheck and then he goes home to relax. Game developers stress out everyday and they are underpaid. The last thing he'd want to do is worry about extra programming for 3D.
3D needs to be built into DirectX where you simply type:
D3D.Stereo3dEnabled = True
.... and you're freaking done. Microsoft needs to get their act together and add stereo 3d support at it's core.
NVIDIA's 3D tech is a sloppy hack job. I mean come on, hard coding profiles into a DLL? how sloppy is that? The profiling methods are not even available to the community, the SDK is horrible, they can't even make a freaking 3d mouse cursor which should only take them 2 freaking seconds.
Stereo 3D is doomed to fail partly due to the fact that the golden age in the United States is over. Technology isn't progressing as fast. Other countries have faster bandwidth than us already.
Anyone who doesn't like S3D is a piece of sh*t and not a gamer. lol :P Ok I vented, I feel much better now.
If I was working at NVIDIA, everyone's issues would be solved and perfected because I would treat them with respect from one gamer to another. I'd also be involved heavily with the community. To push a unique technology forward you must dedicated your LIFE.
Todd Howard is a gamer in fact i think you will find, and one of the best kinds too ! His all time favorite in Ultima 7:The Black gate..... nobody can deny thats good taste in games ;p
BTW, i listened to that podcast, and Todd infact only said he didn't plan support for kinex,move, and 3d.... He never said he didn't like s3d :p
Todd Howard is a gamer in fact i think you will find, and one of the best kinds too ! His all time favorite in Ultima 7:The Black gate..... nobody can deny thats good taste in games ;p
BTW, i listened to that podcast, and Todd infact only said he didn't plan support for kinex,move, and 3d.... He never said he didn't like s3d :p
Yeah i dont think you shoudl worry too much. Every bethesda game i've tried in 3D has been an enjoyable experience, at least after some minor tweaking. I doubt he's saying that they're intentionally going to do things to ensure 3D will not work just as well for this game as Oblivion and FO3/NV. Or did i miss something?
And of course i could see game devs not giving 2 craps about 3D when its pretty much a PC-exclusive feature, and the consoles are their real money-makers. They probably just think "why the hell should we go out of our way to do extra programming to provide support for a feature that only the platform that people will pirate the game the most on can use?". In fact, they probably are quick to put S3D down because they dont want it to get popular enough and on the consoles, to where they cant avoid support it anymore lol.
Yeah i dont think you shoudl worry too much. Every bethesda game i've tried in 3D has been an enjoyable experience, at least after some minor tweaking. I doubt he's saying that they're intentionally going to do things to ensure 3D will not work just as well for this game as Oblivion and FO3/NV. Or did i miss something?
And of course i could see game devs not giving 2 craps about 3D when its pretty much a PC-exclusive feature, and the consoles are their real money-makers. They probably just think "why the hell should we go out of our way to do extra programming to provide support for a feature that only the platform that people will pirate the game the most on can use?". In fact, they probably are quick to put S3D down because they dont want it to get popular enough and on the consoles, to where they cant avoid support it anymore lol.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcasts/archive/2011/02/03/toddhowardse.aspx
He talks about it near the end of the recording. In another video on Game Informer he says he is not a 3D fan at all.
This is really disappointing as Oblivion is one of my favorite games in 3D. Hopefully NVidia can at least convince them to have shadows render correctly etc.
Some people see 3D and love it (like me)
Some people see 3D and aren't impressed (like Todd Howard)
Some people have never seen 3D but hate it :-)
meh.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcasts/archive/2011/02/03/toddhowardse.aspx
He talks about it near the end of the recording. In another video on Game Informer he says he is not a 3D fan at all.
This is really disappointing as Oblivion is one of my favorite games in 3D. Hopefully NVidia can at least convince them to have shadows render correctly etc.
Some people see 3D and love it (like me)
Some people see 3D and aren't impressed (like Todd Howard)
Some people have never seen 3D but hate it :-)
meh.
I don't know how ubisoft managed to publish the il-2 sequel.
Shame cuz I really liked Doom3 on CRT.
I don't know how ubisoft managed to publish the il-2 sequel.
Shame cuz I really liked Doom3 on CRT.
When you try something new while harboring a negative preconception (whether consciously or not) you usually end up hating it regardless of its merits. But then I don't know whats going on in his head, this is all conjecture. He could very well be playing the wait and see game instead of risking (I know it probably couldn't even be considered a risk since Skyrim is virtually guaranteed to sell millions) implementing a technology that isn't in mainstream usage.
Regardless, this news makes me a sad panda. Look on the bright side, renaming Skyrim.exe to ofdr.exe will fix the problems
When you try something new while harboring a negative preconception (whether consciously or not) you usually end up hating it regardless of its merits. But then I don't know whats going on in his head, this is all conjecture. He could very well be playing the wait and see game instead of risking (I know it probably couldn't even be considered a risk since Skyrim is virtually guaranteed to sell millions) implementing a technology that isn't in mainstream usage.
Regardless, this news makes me a sad panda. Look on the bright side, renaming Skyrim.exe to ofdr.exe will fix the problems
Thank you NVIDIA for making up for Tom Howard's luddite attitude!
Thank you NVIDIA for making up for Tom Howard's luddite attitude!
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Maybe he's talking mainly about PS3 S3D support (I didn't listen to the podcast, far too long), which is probably a lot more hard work than on the PC where you just let the nvidia drivers handle everything. TBH as long as you don't get into an fancy rendering techniques, 3D just works anyway on the PC. Oblivion had no S3D support, neither did Fallout 3 or Vegas, but they can be made to work great in stereo.
[/quote]
you don't follow zenimax ( Bethesda , ID ) talk, they *really* think 3d has no place in their products, EA is even funnier.
Maybe he's talking mainly about PS3 S3D support (I didn't listen to the podcast, far too long), which is probably a lot more hard work than on the PC where you just let the nvidia drivers handle everything. TBH as long as you don't get into an fancy rendering techniques, 3D just works anyway on the PC. Oblivion had no S3D support, neither did Fallout 3 or Vegas, but they can be made to work great in stereo.
you don't follow zenimax ( Bethesda , ID ) talk, they *really* think 3d has no place in their products, EA is even funnier.
Current Rig: |Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.6GHz, EVGA X58 Classified 4-way SLI, 6 GB ram, Geforce GTX670| -> |Acer H5360 + Nvidia 3D Vision|
Maybe Todd Howard can't even see stereoscopy and has an irrational hatred of people who can because of it
[/quote]
Somebody find out Ken Levine's opinion on the matter. If he's gung-ho for S3D, we're going to have some serious irony here.
Maybe Todd Howard can't even see stereoscopy and has an irrational hatred of people who can because of it
Somebody find out Ken Levine's opinion on the matter. If he's gung-ho for S3D, we're going to have some serious irony here.
I thought skyrim was going to run on the tech 5 engine, and that they were having problems with its suitedness to open spaces... Guess that was all rumor !
I thought skyrim was going to run on the tech 5 engine, and that they were having problems with its suitedness to open spaces... Guess that was all rumor !
3D needs to be built into DirectX where you simply type:
D3D.Stereo3dEnabled = True
.... and you're freaking done. Microsoft needs to get their act together and add stereo 3d support at it's core.
NVIDIA's 3D tech is a sloppy hack job. I mean come on, hard coding profiles into a DLL? how sloppy is that? The profiling methods are not even available to the community, the SDK is horrible, they can't even make a freaking 3d mouse cursor which should only take them 2 freaking seconds.
Stereo 3D is doomed to fail partly due to the fact that the golden age in the United States is over. Technology isn't progressing as fast. Other countries have faster bandwidth than us already.
Anyone who doesn't like S3D is a piece of sh*t and not a gamer. lol :P Ok I vented, I feel much better now.
If I was working at NVIDIA, everyone's issues would be solved and perfected because I would treat them with respect from one gamer to another. I'd also be involved heavily with the community. To push a unique technology forward you must dedicated your LIFE.
3D needs to be built into DirectX where you simply type:
D3D.Stereo3dEnabled = True
.... and you're freaking done. Microsoft needs to get their act together and add stereo 3d support at it's core.
NVIDIA's 3D tech is a sloppy hack job. I mean come on, hard coding profiles into a DLL? how sloppy is that? The profiling methods are not even available to the community, the SDK is horrible, they can't even make a freaking 3d mouse cursor which should only take them 2 freaking seconds.
Stereo 3D is doomed to fail partly due to the fact that the golden age in the United States is over. Technology isn't progressing as fast. Other countries have faster bandwidth than us already.
Anyone who doesn't like S3D is a piece of sh*t and not a gamer. lol :P Ok I vented, I feel much better now.
If I was working at NVIDIA, everyone's issues would be solved and perfected because I would treat them with respect from one gamer to another. I'd also be involved heavily with the community. To push a unique technology forward you must dedicated your LIFE.
BTW, i listened to that podcast, and Todd infact only said he didn't plan support for kinex,move, and 3d.... He never said he didn't like s3d :p
BTW, i listened to that podcast, and Todd infact only said he didn't plan support for kinex,move, and 3d.... He never said he didn't like s3d :p
And of course i could see game devs not giving 2 craps about 3D when its pretty much a PC-exclusive feature, and the consoles are their real money-makers. They probably just think "why the hell should we go out of our way to do extra programming to provide support for a feature that only the platform that people will pirate the game the most on can use?". In fact, they probably are quick to put S3D down because they dont want it to get popular enough and on the consoles, to where they cant avoid support it anymore lol.
And of course i could see game devs not giving 2 craps about 3D when its pretty much a PC-exclusive feature, and the consoles are their real money-makers. They probably just think "why the hell should we go out of our way to do extra programming to provide support for a feature that only the platform that people will pirate the game the most on can use?". In fact, they probably are quick to put S3D down because they dont want it to get popular enough and on the consoles, to where they cant avoid support it anymore lol.
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