Eye behavior and stereoscopy
I know this is slightly off-topic, as this has nothing to do with NVIDIA, but still... /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

If you're looking at a monoscopic image on the screen, your eyes are converging at the surface of the monitor. If it's a 3D mono image, your eyes are still converging to a point on the surface of the monitor (right?) and your brain is giving it meaning in 3D. If it's a stereoscopic image with things at different depths, what's happening to your eyes? Are they still converging on a point (pixel) on the surface of the screen? Because I feel like I can focus on things at different depths and I feel my eyes have to "adjust" slightly to focus on some stuff. Are they focusing on the point, outside the surface of the screen, where your brain thinks the object really is? How does this work exactly?
I know this is slightly off-topic, as this has nothing to do with NVIDIA, but still... /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />



If you're looking at a monoscopic image on the screen, your eyes are converging at the surface of the monitor. If it's a 3D mono image, your eyes are still converging to a point on the surface of the monitor (right?) and your brain is giving it meaning in 3D. If it's a stereoscopic image with things at different depths, what's happening to your eyes? Are they still converging on a point (pixel) on the surface of the screen? Because I feel like I can focus on things at different depths and I feel my eyes have to "adjust" slightly to focus on some stuff. Are they focusing on the point, outside the surface of the screen, where your brain thinks the object really is? How does this work exactly?

#1
Posted 11/14/2011 04:20 PM   
[quote name='Smig' date='14 November 2011 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1321287621' post='1326259']
I know this is slightly off-topic, as this has nothing to do with NVIDIA, but still... /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

If you're looking at a monoscopic image on the screen, your eyes are converging at the surface of the monitor. If it's a 3D mono image, your eyes are still converging to a point on the surface of the monitor (right?) and your brain is giving it meaning in 3D. If it's a stereoscopic image with things at different depths, what's happening to your eyes? Are they still converging on a point (pixel) on the surface of the screen? Because I feel like I can focus on things at different depths and I feel my eyes have to "adjust" slightly to focus on some stuff. Are they focusing on the point, outside the surface of the screen, where your brain thinks the object really is? How does this work exactly?
[/quote]

In 3D your eye don't converge on the monitor plane unless something is actually on the plane, like the h.u.d. usually is. Take your glasses off and you'll see two separated images for everything except whats on the screen plane, each eye looks at an individual image.

This photo has games on top and movies on the bottom. If you think about it, you'll see how it forces your eyes to behave in the correct way they would in real life, for example, the position of the wind turbines cause your eyes to look relatively straight forward.
[url="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/movievsgamesdepthcompar.jpg/"][img]http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5324/movievsgamesdepthcompar.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The bottom pictures are from movies/video demonstrating how little separation they have, which is why they have so little 3D depth compared to games and is probably part of the source for all the "3d is a gimmick" comments.
[quote name='Smig' date='14 November 2011 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1321287621' post='1326259']

I know this is slightly off-topic, as this has nothing to do with NVIDIA, but still... /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />



If you're looking at a monoscopic image on the screen, your eyes are converging at the surface of the monitor. If it's a 3D mono image, your eyes are still converging to a point on the surface of the monitor (right?) and your brain is giving it meaning in 3D. If it's a stereoscopic image with things at different depths, what's happening to your eyes? Are they still converging on a point (pixel) on the surface of the screen? Because I feel like I can focus on things at different depths and I feel my eyes have to "adjust" slightly to focus on some stuff. Are they focusing on the point, outside the surface of the screen, where your brain thinks the object really is? How does this work exactly?





In 3D your eye don't converge on the monitor plane unless something is actually on the plane, like the h.u.d. usually is. Take your glasses off and you'll see two separated images for everything except whats on the screen plane, each eye looks at an individual image.



This photo has games on top and movies on the bottom. If you think about it, you'll see how it forces your eyes to behave in the correct way they would in real life, for example, the position of the wind turbines cause your eyes to look relatively straight forward.

Image



The bottom pictures are from movies/video demonstrating how little separation they have, which is why they have so little 3D depth compared to games and is probably part of the source for all the "3d is a gimmick" comments.

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#2
Posted 11/14/2011 07:56 PM   
Hi Smig

As far as I know there are two things at play with regard to stereoscopic vision:
1 Your retina focus
2 Eye alignment tracking

With stereo 3D, your retinas are still focused at screen depth BUT your eyes are aligning as they would do when tracking distant objects in real life. So 3D Vision is sort of a half realistic stereoscopic vision.

I have found gaming this ways has enabled me to drive, glasses free because I can now read licence plates at the required distance which I couldn't do before I gamed in 3D. (My prescription glasses are pretty weak tbh but I still could not read plates without them unlike now! Placebo effect or not, I dont care because it works! :) )
Hi Smig



As far as I know there are two things at play with regard to stereoscopic vision:

1 Your retina focus

2 Eye alignment tracking



With stereo 3D, your retinas are still focused at screen depth BUT your eyes are aligning as they would do when tracking distant objects in real life. So 3D Vision is sort of a half realistic stereoscopic vision.



I have found gaming this ways has enabled me to drive, glasses free because I can now read licence plates at the required distance which I couldn't do before I gamed in 3D. (My prescription glasses are pretty weak tbh but I still could not read plates without them unlike now! Placebo effect or not, I dont care because it works! :) )

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
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#3
Posted 11/14/2011 08:14 PM   
Before you said that, i would have sworn up and down that I focused into the distance "correctly", depending on the convergence/depth setting. Seemed to me the screen is just a light emitter, and your eyes can easily focus into the distance, like the Sony HMD, or so i thought. The other reason is a guy was saying his 3D was a horrible experience because he was playing WOW and had a difficult time changing his focus from all the icons screen to into the screen. Not sure now.

What are you doing reading peoples plates, lol? Does it have to do with people speeding???
Before you said that, i would have sworn up and down that I focused into the distance "correctly", depending on the convergence/depth setting. Seemed to me the screen is just a light emitter, and your eyes can easily focus into the distance, like the Sony HMD, or so i thought. The other reason is a guy was saying his 3D was a horrible experience because he was playing WOW and had a difficult time changing his focus from all the icons screen to into the screen. Not sure now.



What are you doing reading peoples plates, lol? Does it have to do with people speeding???

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#4
Posted 11/14/2011 09:40 PM   
I share your confusion. Why do i have to wear my long distance glasses with my sony hmd and my reading glasses with my acer 27? Eyes are a wierd technology. Thank heavens we don't need to read a manual in Japanese to use them. .
I share your confusion. Why do i have to wear my long distance glasses with my sony hmd and my reading glasses with my acer 27? Eyes are a wierd technology. Thank heavens we don't need to read a manual in Japanese to use them. .

#5
Posted 11/15/2011 02:53 PM   
The difference is that the physical location of the object (your screen!) doesn't change, so your focal depth never changes - only the convergence point of your eyes. But that can "feel" like you're "focusing" because you're still using your eye muscles to do that. This is why, ironically, ever since I've had my kit I have LESS eyestrain during gaming than when gaming in 2D - your eyes are behaving much closer to "normal", instead of locking their convergence point at basically the same place for hours. If I play in 2D for whatever reason I find that noticeably harder on my head. Hmm, "2D is a gimmick - it gives people headaches & eyestrain!" :D
The difference is that the physical location of the object (your screen!) doesn't change, so your focal depth never changes - only the convergence point of your eyes. But that can "feel" like you're "focusing" because you're still using your eye muscles to do that. This is why, ironically, ever since I've had my kit I have LESS eyestrain during gaming than when gaming in 2D - your eyes are behaving much closer to "normal", instead of locking their convergence point at basically the same place for hours. If I play in 2D for whatever reason I find that noticeably harder on my head. Hmm, "2D is a gimmick - it gives people headaches & eyestrain!" :D

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#6
Posted 11/15/2011 03:40 PM   
[quote name='vaelo' date='15 November 2011 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1321371652' post='1326968']
The difference is that the physical location of the object (your screen!) doesn't change, so your focal depth never changes - only the convergence point of your eyes. But that can "feel" like you're "focusing" because you're still using your eye muscles to do that. This is why, ironically, ever since I've had my kit I have LESS eyestrain during gaming than when gaming in 2D - your eyes are behaving much closer to "normal", instead of locking their convergence point at basically the same place for hours. If I play in 2D for whatever reason I find that noticeably harder on my head. Hmm, "2D is a gimmick - it gives people headaches & eyestrain!" :D
[/quote]
Ok, I get that with LCD 3d like on my acer, the physical distance doesn't change, thus my reading glasses work best just like for reading a paper 2 ft in front of my face. But with the Sony head mount my eyes are focusing long distance thus require my long distance glasses. (its a blur with my reading glasses). The physical image is still only 1inch from my eyes? I guess it is good, more natural but it may have something to do with folks complaining that it doesnt seem to pop as much as 3 d on LCD monitor.
[quote name='vaelo' date='15 November 2011 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1321371652' post='1326968']

The difference is that the physical location of the object (your screen!) doesn't change, so your focal depth never changes - only the convergence point of your eyes. But that can "feel" like you're "focusing" because you're still using your eye muscles to do that. This is why, ironically, ever since I've had my kit I have LESS eyestrain during gaming than when gaming in 2D - your eyes are behaving much closer to "normal", instead of locking their convergence point at basically the same place for hours. If I play in 2D for whatever reason I find that noticeably harder on my head. Hmm, "2D is a gimmick - it gives people headaches & eyestrain!" :D



Ok, I get that with LCD 3d like on my acer, the physical distance doesn't change, thus my reading glasses work best just like for reading a paper 2 ft in front of my face. But with the Sony head mount my eyes are focusing long distance thus require my long distance glasses. (its a blur with my reading glasses). The physical image is still only 1inch from my eyes? I guess it is good, more natural but it may have something to do with folks complaining that it doesnt seem to pop as much as 3 d on LCD monitor.

#7
Posted 11/17/2011 03:43 PM   
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