3D at 60hz Know it can be done, but how?
Hi All,

I have a 2 monitor setup, with one Samsung 120hz monitor, and one 55" LCD television both hooked to my computer. I can get the stereo test (not the red / blue, the actual screen with the glasses from the 3D Vision Kit) running on the 60hz LCD screen, but the glasses refuse to turn on when it is displayed there.

To get this I set up the 60hz large screen as the primary screen from "Set up multiple displays"
Next I go to "Set up stereoscopic 3D"
I have the options of 3D display type of "Generic CRT display" and "Generic 3D DLP HDTV" (along with the Discover setting for red / blue)
I select the 3D DLP HDTV and then click "Test stereoscopic 3D" and Launch the test application at 1920x1080 at 60hz.
IT SHOWS THE PROPER SCREEN - looking identical to the screen on my 120hz Samsung when I use it there.

The problem is, the glasses refuse to work when this occurs.

I was at the Sony Fan Faire talking to nVidia about the 3D Vision and was told there are third party drivers out there that will allow you to use 3D Vision with a 60hz LCD screen. I was specifically told that the 3D Vision has any refresh rate below 100hz locked out in their software due to possibility of flicker for some, and they didn't want the potential of a bad review of this new technology, even if for some people 60hz is totally fine.

I personally don't have a problem with headaches, noticable eyestrain, or anything else due to flicker running at 60hz (I know this from the old CRT days with 3D where I have done this.)

So my question is - does anyone know how to remove this fake limitation imposed by nVidia? As I said, I was told by a nVidia rep that it CAN be done, and just am asking for help on how to do it.

Thanks in advance,
~David
Hi All,



I have a 2 monitor setup, with one Samsung 120hz monitor, and one 55" LCD television both hooked to my computer. I can get the stereo test (not the red / blue, the actual screen with the glasses from the 3D Vision Kit) running on the 60hz LCD screen, but the glasses refuse to turn on when it is displayed there.



To get this I set up the 60hz large screen as the primary screen from "Set up multiple displays"

Next I go to "Set up stereoscopic 3D"

I have the options of 3D display type of "Generic CRT display" and "Generic 3D DLP HDTV" (along with the Discover setting for red / blue)

I select the 3D DLP HDTV and then click "Test stereoscopic 3D" and Launch the test application at 1920x1080 at 60hz.

IT SHOWS THE PROPER SCREEN - looking identical to the screen on my 120hz Samsung when I use it there.



The problem is, the glasses refuse to work when this occurs.



I was at the Sony Fan Faire talking to nVidia about the 3D Vision and was told there are third party drivers out there that will allow you to use 3D Vision with a 60hz LCD screen. I was specifically told that the 3D Vision has any refresh rate below 100hz locked out in their software due to possibility of flicker for some, and they didn't want the potential of a bad review of this new technology, even if for some people 60hz is totally fine.



I personally don't have a problem with headaches, noticable eyestrain, or anything else due to flicker running at 60hz (I know this from the old CRT days with 3D where I have done this.)



So my question is - does anyone know how to remove this fake limitation imposed by nVidia? As I said, I was told by a nVidia rep that it CAN be done, and just am asking for help on how to do it.



Thanks in advance,

~David

#1
Posted 10/11/2009 10:52 AM   
if this is true....wouldn't it also mean that people could use the cheaper glasses available on ebay for £10?

if there is a way to get 3d vision working at 60Hz with a standard lcd, please do share the secret......i'd probably afford the official glasses at a push, but shelling out for a whole new screen, expecially a smaller screen with a lower resolution than i have, seems to be a long way out of my price range :S

if there is a way, i'm sure it would beat my current anaglyph setup hands down :)
if this is true....wouldn't it also mean that people could use the cheaper glasses available on ebay for £10?



if there is a way to get 3d vision working at 60Hz with a standard lcd, please do share the secret......i'd probably afford the official glasses at a push, but shelling out for a whole new screen, expecially a smaller screen with a lower resolution than i have, seems to be a long way out of my price range :S



if there is a way, i'm sure it would beat my current anaglyph setup hands down :)

#2
Posted 10/11/2009 01:22 PM   
I would love to see if this works decently on my HDTV but nV imposes some silly artificial limitations.
I would love to see if this works decently on my HDTV but nV imposes some silly artificial limitations.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#3
Posted 10/11/2009 03:46 PM   
Hm while it might be possible, I wouldn't recommend doing it..

It doesn't make sense actually, you want to aim for higher FPS not lower..

Just get a 3d ready display ! There are lots of options available, including
83" 3d t.v's that are HD ready..
Hm while it might be possible, I wouldn't recommend doing it..



It doesn't make sense actually, you want to aim for higher FPS not lower..



Just get a 3d ready display ! There are lots of options available, including

83" 3d t.v's that are HD ready..

#4
Posted 10/11/2009 04:02 PM   
[quote name='dreamingawake' post='599430' date='Oct 11 2009, 10:02 AM']Hm while it might be possible, I wouldn't recommend doing it..

It doesn't make sense actually, you want to aim for higher FPS not lower..

Just get a 3d ready display ! There are lots of options available, including
83" 3d t.v's that are HD ready..[/quote]


If I could trade my 1080p 52" LCD HDTV for a 3d plasma, I would, but so far no opportunity has presented itself.
[quote name='dreamingawake' post='599430' date='Oct 11 2009, 10:02 AM']Hm while it might be possible, I wouldn't recommend doing it..



It doesn't make sense actually, you want to aim for higher FPS not lower..



Just get a 3d ready display ! There are lots of options available, including

83" 3d t.v's that are HD ready..





If I could trade my 1080p 52" LCD HDTV for a 3d plasma, I would, but so far no opportunity has presented itself.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#5
Posted 10/11/2009 04:31 PM   
The only 60Hz 3D that you'll actually be able to cope with looking at is Passive Stereo, i.e. 2 Projectors, iz3D Monitor or the Zalman Monitor.

I have had my shutters at 60Hz, it was not usuable. 75Hz is where you can start using 3D on Shutters.
The only 60Hz 3D that you'll actually be able to cope with looking at is Passive Stereo, i.e. 2 Projectors, iz3D Monitor or the Zalman Monitor.



I have had my shutters at 60Hz, it was not usuable. 75Hz is where you can start using 3D on Shutters.

#6
Posted 10/11/2009 05:10 PM   
yeah, I can run my CRT at 60hz in 3d mode. It is completely and utterly pointless.

Unless you want a seizure.
yeah, I can run my CRT at 60hz in 3d mode. It is completely and utterly pointless.



Unless you want a seizure.

#7
Posted 10/11/2009 07:25 PM   
[quote name='f3likx' post='599483' date='Oct 11 2009, 01:25 PM']yeah, I can run my CRT at 60hz in 3d mode. It is completely and utterly pointless.

Unless you want a seizure.[/quote]


I was thinking it might not be too bad with an LCD because of the way it works. In any case, I would just like to try it to see how bad it is.
[quote name='f3likx' post='599483' date='Oct 11 2009, 01:25 PM']yeah, I can run my CRT at 60hz in 3d mode. It is completely and utterly pointless.



Unless you want a seizure.





I was thinking it might not be too bad with an LCD because of the way it works. In any case, I would just like to try it to see how bad it is.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#8
Posted 10/11/2009 08:33 PM   
I used 60Hz with many DLP projectors all the time. No problems.

Some people are just too sensitive to low refresh rates, but it does not mean that they should impede requests for 60Hz support by complaints that it is "unusable".

To them, it probably is. But to say that it is so for everyone is ludicrous.


It could have been an advanced feature such that you would have to change a registry key to enable it so that under normal circumstances it would be unattainable. But what IS a farce is that 61Hz+ is supported, NOT 100Hz+. Why isn't 61Hz considered flickery?

It just seems to be an arbitrary limitation to make sure that anything that works at 60Hz never works and people are forced to buy higher end solutions that nVidia get sponsored for.


Of course, most projecors and large screen technologies work at 60Hz. It is these that nvidia wants to lock out.

And then they spin it so that it seems the cap is there to improve the experience.


Typical nvidia BS. After 10 years of high end nv cards, i couldn't take any more of their crud and got myself 2 ATi 5870s. Perfect stereo with iZ3d which is a far superior driver and monitor technology with their new glasses.
I used 60Hz with many DLP projectors all the time. No problems.



Some people are just too sensitive to low refresh rates, but it does not mean that they should impede requests for 60Hz support by complaints that it is "unusable".



To them, it probably is. But to say that it is so for everyone is ludicrous.





It could have been an advanced feature such that you would have to change a registry key to enable it so that under normal circumstances it would be unattainable. But what IS a farce is that 61Hz+ is supported, NOT 100Hz+. Why isn't 61Hz considered flickery?



It just seems to be an arbitrary limitation to make sure that anything that works at 60Hz never works and people are forced to buy higher end solutions that nVidia get sponsored for.





Of course, most projecors and large screen technologies work at 60Hz. It is these that nvidia wants to lock out.



And then they spin it so that it seems the cap is there to improve the experience.





Typical nvidia BS. After 10 years of high end nv cards, i couldn't take any more of their crud and got myself 2 ATi 5870s. Perfect stereo with iZ3d which is a far superior driver and monitor technology with their new glasses.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#9
Posted 10/11/2009 09:25 PM   
[quote name='RAGEdemon' post='599520' date='Oct 11 2009, 03:25 PM']Perfect stereo with iZ3d which is a far superior driver and monitor technology with their new glasses.[/quote]


You had me until here... No dx10, no AA, no thank you. Are you even able to use crossfire in 3d mode?
[quote name='RAGEdemon' post='599520' date='Oct 11 2009, 03:25 PM']Perfect stereo with iZ3d which is a far superior driver and monitor technology with their new glasses.





You had me until here... No dx10, no AA, no thank you. Are you even able to use crossfire in 3d mode?

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#10
Posted 10/11/2009 09:51 PM   
Very soon, all 3 will be a yes.

Xfire/SLi within next 2 months, and FSAA on ATi cards as well as current nvidia support following soon - according to devs.

At which point, 5870 crossfire or x2 will beat the pants off any nvidia dual cpu / sli card for the foreseeable future, seeing how GT300 seems to be a joke ;-)

As far as single core goes, check some benchies i did [url="http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1815"]http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1815[/url]

GTX 285 at the bottom.
Very soon, all 3 will be a yes.



Xfire/SLi within next 2 months, and FSAA on ATi cards as well as current nvidia support following soon - according to devs.



At which point, 5870 crossfire or x2 will beat the pants off any nvidia dual cpu / sli card for the foreseeable future, seeing how GT300 seems to be a joke ;-)



As far as single core goes, check some benchies i did http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1815



GTX 285 at the bottom.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#11
Posted 10/11/2009 11:04 PM   
[quote name='RAGEdemon' post='599554' date='Oct 11 2009, 05:04 PM']Very soon, all 3 will be a yes.

Xfire/SLi within next 2 months, and FSAA on ATi cards as well as current nvidia support following soon - according to devs.

At which point, 5870 crossfire or x2 will beat the pants off any nvidia dual cpu / sli card for the foreseeable future, seeing how GT300 seems to be a joke ;-)

As far as single core goes, check some benchies i did [url="http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1815"]http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1815[/url]

GTX 285 at the bottom.[/quote]

Are they going to support dx11 right away also? If they actually stick to their promises and fix support for CF/SLI, AA, and dx10/11 along with dealing with the more apparent ghosting I'll have to take a second look. Course, they would still have the problem of not supporting 3d ready HDTVs so I wouldn't be able to sell my 3d vision kit.

In the benchmarks, what did you mean by "Stereo3D is "Toggled off", meaning that disabling the driver altogether will improve the game performance even further. " Did you test both the speed of 3d vision and iz3d or did you use the iz3d drivers for both? Because the iz3d nV drivers may not necessarily be as efficient as the ATi iz3d driver.

LOL - You were benchmarking an 8800 and trying to extrapolate a gtx 285. Damn man, whatever, it is pretty obvious your conclusions are already established before you run the tests. Not a very decent way to run an objective test imo.

All the same, I'll be happy to have another choice in the 3d stereo realm if IZ3D gets their act together.
[quote name='RAGEdemon' post='599554' date='Oct 11 2009, 05:04 PM']Very soon, all 3 will be a yes.



Xfire/SLi within next 2 months, and FSAA on ATi cards as well as current nvidia support following soon - according to devs.



At which point, 5870 crossfire or x2 will beat the pants off any nvidia dual cpu / sli card for the foreseeable future, seeing how GT300 seems to be a joke ;-)



As far as single core goes, check some benchies i did http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1815



GTX 285 at the bottom.



Are they going to support dx11 right away also? If they actually stick to their promises and fix support for CF/SLI, AA, and dx10/11 along with dealing with the more apparent ghosting I'll have to take a second look. Course, they would still have the problem of not supporting 3d ready HDTVs so I wouldn't be able to sell my 3d vision kit.



In the benchmarks, what did you mean by "Stereo3D is "Toggled off", meaning that disabling the driver altogether will improve the game performance even further. " Did you test both the speed of 3d vision and iz3d or did you use the iz3d drivers for both? Because the iz3d nV drivers may not necessarily be as efficient as the ATi iz3d driver.



LOL - You were benchmarking an 8800 and trying to extrapolate a gtx 285. Damn man, whatever, it is pretty obvious your conclusions are already established before you run the tests. Not a very decent way to run an objective test imo.



All the same, I'll be happy to have another choice in the 3d stereo realm if IZ3D gets their act together.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#12
Posted 10/12/2009 12:13 AM   
[quote]All the same, I'll be happy to have another choice in the 3d stereo realm if IZ3D gets their act together.[/quote]

Same here, I'm no nvidia or iz3d or ATI fanboy. I just want to have options. I hope the new iz3d glasses are better than the old ones, the ghosting is FAR worst than 3D vision, but this is not what bothers me the most, that was the strange colors the glasses delivered. They say the colors are ok now. Anyway I do prefer a passive solution like iz3d, but right now i'm enjoying 3D Vision.

Asus is about to launch 24" 1080p 120hz 3D monitor and sony will launch 40" and up 120hz LCDs in the next 6 months also.
All the same, I'll be happy to have another choice in the 3d stereo realm if IZ3D gets their act together.




Same here, I'm no nvidia or iz3d or ATI fanboy. I just want to have options. I hope the new iz3d glasses are better than the old ones, the ghosting is FAR worst than 3D vision, but this is not what bothers me the most, that was the strange colors the glasses delivered. They say the colors are ok now. Anyway I do prefer a passive solution like iz3d, but right now i'm enjoying 3D Vision.



Asus is about to launch 24" 1080p 120hz 3D monitor and sony will launch 40" and up 120hz LCDs in the next 6 months also.

nope

#13
Posted 10/12/2009 12:29 AM   
If you would be so kind as to send me a GTX 285 then I would be happy to do benchmarks on that card too :)

The extrapolation comes directly from the ratio of "Sum of FPS Benchmarks" on tomshardware charts section comparing directly a GTX 285 and an 8800GTX:

[url="http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/compare,1445.html?prod%5b2662%5d=on&prod%5b2697%5d=on"]TomsHardware Comparison[/url]

I don't think you understand the extrapolation method. Having at hand the exact percentage [u]increase[/u] in FPS going from one card to the next and then taking the exact percentage [u]drop[/u] in FPS due to S3D on one of the cards, we can come to an almost exact number +/- a few percent for the performance of virtually any card in and out of Stereo3D. It is simple mathematics.

As for favouring ATi over nVidia, the results clearly show that both nVidia and ATi cards drop in performance by on average 35% when in Stereo3D - they both work equally well.

As far as 3D DLP support goes, they have had it for quite a while. Not only that, but they also support HMDs, Stereo Mirror, side by side, shutter (beta), interlaced (both horizontal and vertical), dual projector, and standard anaglyph.

As for the ghosting, they have made new glasses which a bunch of us have been beta testing over the past months which remove the tint issue altogether and improve upon ghosting significantly, and they will send out a free pair to all the old customers.

They too have a larger screen monitor in the works. It may still work at 60Hz, but it is purely passive - no flicker and both the eyes receive an equal frame rate. It is better than 120Hz shutter glasses as the eyes are receiving the signals alternatively and each eye is only receiving 60FPS even at 120Hz. Also, due to the shutters blocking out half the light initially, and half the light due to polarisation on top of that, you only receive ~25% of the light - the image through shutter glasses is dark and colours washed out because you are literally looking through dark sunglasses.

On the other hand, a passive solution means that you are blocking out only ~50% of the light, both eyes get the same frame at the same time, and it is a more comfortable and immersive experience with much lighter glasses.

The other benefit is that it is an open standard supporting both nvidia and ATi alike. Game developers have said that they want to support S3D but as long as it is a standard - they are not interested in proprietary technology.

Granted that a true standard will not be available till we have ghostless and perhaps even glassesless Stereo3D at 100FPS at which point the optic nerve saturates, but the simple truth remains that the quality is better with the passive iZ3D tech than it is with active nVidias. It is just a simple fact that passive is superior to active ;-)

And I too have had my fair share of 3D techs to compare with... ELSA/ED CRT, i-Glasses SVGA3D, eMagin Z800, active projector, and now iZ3D, and I can say with all frankness that iZ3D with the tech and the quality of stereo produced by the driver itself and even taking game compatibility into account - iZ3D is the better choice - with the new glasses. /hug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hug:' />
If you would be so kind as to send me a GTX 285 then I would be happy to do benchmarks on that card too :)



The extrapolation comes directly from the ratio of "Sum of FPS Benchmarks" on tomshardware charts section comparing directly a GTX 285 and an 8800GTX:



TomsHardware Comparison



I don't think you understand the extrapolation method. Having at hand the exact percentage increase in FPS going from one card to the next and then taking the exact percentage drop in FPS due to S3D on one of the cards, we can come to an almost exact number +/- a few percent for the performance of virtually any card in and out of Stereo3D. It is simple mathematics.



As for favouring ATi over nVidia, the results clearly show that both nVidia and ATi cards drop in performance by on average 35% when in Stereo3D - they both work equally well.



As far as 3D DLP support goes, they have had it for quite a while. Not only that, but they also support HMDs, Stereo Mirror, side by side, shutter (beta), interlaced (both horizontal and vertical), dual projector, and standard anaglyph.



As for the ghosting, they have made new glasses which a bunch of us have been beta testing over the past months which remove the tint issue altogether and improve upon ghosting significantly, and they will send out a free pair to all the old customers.



They too have a larger screen monitor in the works. It may still work at 60Hz, but it is purely passive - no flicker and both the eyes receive an equal frame rate. It is better than 120Hz shutter glasses as the eyes are receiving the signals alternatively and each eye is only receiving 60FPS even at 120Hz. Also, due to the shutters blocking out half the light initially, and half the light due to polarisation on top of that, you only receive ~25% of the light - the image through shutter glasses is dark and colours washed out because you are literally looking through dark sunglasses.



On the other hand, a passive solution means that you are blocking out only ~50% of the light, both eyes get the same frame at the same time, and it is a more comfortable and immersive experience with much lighter glasses.



The other benefit is that it is an open standard supporting both nvidia and ATi alike. Game developers have said that they want to support S3D but as long as it is a standard - they are not interested in proprietary technology.



Granted that a true standard will not be available till we have ghostless and perhaps even glassesless Stereo3D at 100FPS at which point the optic nerve saturates, but the simple truth remains that the quality is better with the passive iZ3D tech than it is with active nVidias. It is just a simple fact that passive is superior to active ;-)



And I too have had my fair share of 3D techs to compare with... ELSA/ED CRT, i-Glasses SVGA3D, eMagin Z800, active projector, and now iZ3D, and I can say with all frankness that iZ3D with the tech and the quality of stereo produced by the driver itself and even taking game compatibility into account - iZ3D is the better choice - with the new glasses. /hug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hug:' />

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#14
Posted 10/12/2009 01:28 AM   
[quote name='RAGEdemon' post='599601' date='Oct 11 2009, 07:28 PM']If you would be so kind as to send me a GTX 285 then I would be happy to do benchmarks on that card too :)

The extrapolation comes directly from the ratio of "Sum of FPS Benchmarks" on tomshardware charts section comparing directly a GTX 285 and an 8800GTX:

[url="http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/compare,1445.html?prod%5b2662%5d=on&prod%5b2697%5d=on"]TomsHardware Comparison[/url]

I don't think you understand the extrapolation method. Having at hand the exact percentage [u]increase[/u] in FPS going from one card to the next and then taking the exact percentage [u]drop[/u] in FPS due to S3D on one of the cards, we can come to an almost exact number +/- a few percent for the performance of virtually any card in and out of Stereo3D. It is simple mathematics.

As for favouring ATi over nVidia, the results clearly show that both nVidia and ATi cards drop in performance by on average 35% when in Stereo3D - they both work equally well.

As far as 3D DLP support goes, they have had it for quite a while. Not only that, but they also support HMDs, Stereo Mirror, side by side, shutter (beta), interlaced (both horizontal and vertical), dual projector, and standard anaglyph.

As for the ghosting, they have made new glasses which a bunch of us have been beta testing over the past months which remove the tint issue altogether and improve upon ghosting significantly, and they will send out a free pair to all the old customers.

They too have a larger screen monitor in the works. It may still work at 60Hz, but it is purely passive - no flicker and both the eyes receive an equal frame rate. It is better than 120Hz shutter glasses as the eyes are receiving the signals alternatively and each eye is only receiving 60FPS even at 120Hz. Also, due to the shutters blocking out half the light initially, and half the light due to polarisation on top of that, you only receive ~25% of the light - the image through shutter glasses is dark and colours washed out because you are literally looking through dark sunglasses.

On the other hand, a passive solution means that you are blocking out only ~50% of the light, both eyes get the same frame at the same time, and it is a more comfortable and immersive experience with much lighter glasses.

The other benefit is that it is an open standard supporting both nvidia and ATi alike. Game developers have said that they want to support S3D but as long as it is a standard - they are not interested in proprietary technology.

Granted that a true standard will not be available till we have ghostless and perhaps even glassesless Stereo3D at 100FPS at which point the optic nerve saturates, but the simple truth remains that the quality is better with the passive iZ3D tech than it is with active nVidias. It is just a simple fact that passive is superior to active ;-)

And I too have had my fair share of 3D techs to compare with... ELSA/ED CRT, i-Glasses SVGA3D, eMagin Z800, active projector, and now iZ3D, and I can say with all frankness that iZ3D with the tech and the quality of stereo produced by the driver itself and even taking game compatibility into account - iZ3D is the better choice - with the new glasses. /hug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hug:' />[/quote]


I don't have a gtx 285 only 2xgtx280s in sli and a gtx 260 for dedicated physx so I can't help you. /haha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':haha:' />

Future IZ3D sounds good, however it won't be the better choice to me until dx10/11 and AA are supported properly and ghosting is proven to be taken care of (at least as good as 3d vision, hopefully even better). Wouldn't I need shutter glasses for the DLP drivers?

Basically, I can see IZ3D being better when they fulfill their promises but I certainly wouldn't want to switch just yet. Hopefully the enhanced competition from IZ3D will get nV off their asses as far as the drivers are concerned.
[quote name='RAGEdemon' post='599601' date='Oct 11 2009, 07:28 PM']If you would be so kind as to send me a GTX 285 then I would be happy to do benchmarks on that card too :)



The extrapolation comes directly from the ratio of "Sum of FPS Benchmarks" on tomshardware charts section comparing directly a GTX 285 and an 8800GTX:



TomsHardware Comparison



I don't think you understand the extrapolation method. Having at hand the exact percentage increase in FPS going from one card to the next and then taking the exact percentage drop in FPS due to S3D on one of the cards, we can come to an almost exact number +/- a few percent for the performance of virtually any card in and out of Stereo3D. It is simple mathematics.



As for favouring ATi over nVidia, the results clearly show that both nVidia and ATi cards drop in performance by on average 35% when in Stereo3D - they both work equally well.



As far as 3D DLP support goes, they have had it for quite a while. Not only that, but they also support HMDs, Stereo Mirror, side by side, shutter (beta), interlaced (both horizontal and vertical), dual projector, and standard anaglyph.



As for the ghosting, they have made new glasses which a bunch of us have been beta testing over the past months which remove the tint issue altogether and improve upon ghosting significantly, and they will send out a free pair to all the old customers.



They too have a larger screen monitor in the works. It may still work at 60Hz, but it is purely passive - no flicker and both the eyes receive an equal frame rate. It is better than 120Hz shutter glasses as the eyes are receiving the signals alternatively and each eye is only receiving 60FPS even at 120Hz. Also, due to the shutters blocking out half the light initially, and half the light due to polarisation on top of that, you only receive ~25% of the light - the image through shutter glasses is dark and colours washed out because you are literally looking through dark sunglasses.



On the other hand, a passive solution means that you are blocking out only ~50% of the light, both eyes get the same frame at the same time, and it is a more comfortable and immersive experience with much lighter glasses.



The other benefit is that it is an open standard supporting both nvidia and ATi alike. Game developers have said that they want to support S3D but as long as it is a standard - they are not interested in proprietary technology.



Granted that a true standard will not be available till we have ghostless and perhaps even glassesless Stereo3D at 100FPS at which point the optic nerve saturates, but the simple truth remains that the quality is better with the passive iZ3D tech than it is with active nVidias. It is just a simple fact that passive is superior to active ;-)



And I too have had my fair share of 3D techs to compare with... ELSA/ED CRT, i-Glasses SVGA3D, eMagin Z800, active projector, and now iZ3D, and I can say with all frankness that iZ3D with the tech and the quality of stereo produced by the driver itself and even taking game compatibility into account - iZ3D is the better choice - with the new glasses. /hug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hug:' />





I don't have a gtx 285 only 2xgtx280s in sli and a gtx 260 for dedicated physx so I can't help you. /haha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':haha:' />



Future IZ3D sounds good, however it won't be the better choice to me until dx10/11 and AA are supported properly and ghosting is proven to be taken care of (at least as good as 3d vision, hopefully even better). Wouldn't I need shutter glasses for the DLP drivers?



Basically, I can see IZ3D being better when they fulfill their promises but I certainly wouldn't want to switch just yet. Hopefully the enhanced competition from IZ3D will get nV off their asses as far as the drivers are concerned.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#15
Posted 10/12/2009 02:12 AM   
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