3D Vision CPU Bottelneck: Gathering Information thread.
  17 / 22    
That's atrocious masterotaku, thanks for sharing your results!
That's atrocious masterotaku, thanks for sharing your results!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 12/06/2017 03:20 PM   
Sorry, double post due to timeout...
Sorry, double post due to timeout...

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 12/06/2017 03:23 PM   
Metal-O-Holic with his 8700K and I with a 7700K have been doing some comparisons in this thread: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1030259/3d-vision/if-anyone-interested-im-putting-together-my-new-build-tomorrow-/1/[/url] [color="green"][u][b]Conclusions[/b][/u][/color] (including margin of error): [color="green"][b]1. 8700K is as good as 7700K for 3D Vision[/b][/color] (bottlenecked at this present point in time). Assuming one can OC as high, which according to statistics one can - 81% of 8700K chips can reach 5GHz on all cores out of the box. [color="green"][b]2. The extra 2 cores go unused.[/b][/color] 4.7GHz 7700K = [b]43%[/b] usage to generate ~70fps 4.7GHz 8700K = [b]29%[/b] usage to generate ~70fps [b]43%[/b] *8 cores / 12 cores = [b]29%[/b] Calculation of CPU usage checks out. [color="green"][b]3. Cache size does not seem to make a difference to the 3D vision bottleneck. [/b][/color] Although 8700K does not make use of the 2 extra cores as per above, it still has access to 12MB cache compared to 7700K's 8MB. [color="green"][b]4. 3D Vision FPS scales perfectly with Core overclock:[/b][/color] Actual: 4.7GHz 7700K = ~70fps Predicted: 5GHz 7700K fps = 5/4.7*70=[u][b]74FPS[/b][/u] Actual: 5GHz 7700K = [u][b]74fps[/b][/u] [color="green"][b]5. There is a drop of 15% CPU usage with 3D Vision enabled.[/b][/color] 2D CPU usage = 58% 3D CPU usage = 43% [color="green"][b]6. Predicted 3D Vision FPS if there was no 3D vision CPU bottleneck:[/b][/color] Actual: 4.7GHz 3DVision CPU usage @ 43% = 70fps Predicted: 4.7GHz 3DVision CPU usage @ 58% = 58/43*70 = 94FPS 2D FPS: 4.7GHz 2D CPU usage @ 58% = 145fps What should be the FPS loss due to 3D Vision if there was no bottleneck caused by 3DVision? = (2D FPS / Predicted 3D FPS if CPU usage wasn't gimped) / 2D FPS = (145fps-94fps)/145fps = [color="green"][u][b]35%[/b][/u][/color] It is interesting how this calculated drop in performance, supported by empirical evidence, shows a [color="green"][b]"35%"[/b][/color] performance loss to 3D Vision. This percentage tallies up exactly with what was actually measured while 3D vision gaming years ago with the "old" 3D vision driver. Perhaps the most important conclusion: [color="green"][b]7. 3D Vision bottleneck drop in performance on:[/b][/color] 7700K/8700K = (145fps-70fps)/145fps*100= [color="green"][b]52%[/b][/color] i7-980X / x5660 @ 4.4GHz measured by nVidia and us = [color="green"][b]61%[/b][/color] [color="green"][u][b]Should be: 35%[/b][/u][/color], but the faster the Clock x IPC, the smaller the bottleneck problem gets. [color="green"][u][b]Conclusion of conclusions:[/b][/u][/color] Upgrading from an old AMD and Intel CPUs ought to give a substantial improvement in 3D Vision performance. Do the GTA 5 test yourself to see how much of an improvement is possible from your current setup.
Metal-O-Holic with his 8700K and I with a 7700K have been doing some comparisons in this thread:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1030259/3d-vision/if-anyone-interested-im-putting-together-my-new-build-tomorrow-/1/

Conclusions (including margin of error):

1. 8700K is as good as 7700K for 3D Vision (bottlenecked at this present point in time). Assuming one can OC as high, which according to statistics one can - 81% of 8700K chips can reach 5GHz on all cores out of the box.

2. The extra 2 cores go unused.

4.7GHz 7700K = 43% usage to generate ~70fps
4.7GHz 8700K = 29% usage to generate ~70fps

43% *8 cores / 12 cores = 29%
Calculation of CPU usage checks out.

3. Cache size does not seem to make a difference to the 3D vision bottleneck. Although 8700K does not make use of the 2 extra cores as per above, it still has access to 12MB cache compared to 7700K's 8MB.

4. 3D Vision FPS scales perfectly with Core overclock:

Actual:
4.7GHz 7700K = ~70fps

Predicted:
5GHz 7700K fps = 5/4.7*70=74FPS
Actual:
5GHz 7700K = 74fps

5. There is a drop of 15% CPU usage with 3D Vision enabled.

2D CPU usage = 58%
3D CPU usage = 43%

6. Predicted 3D Vision FPS if there was no 3D vision CPU bottleneck:

Actual:
4.7GHz 3DVision CPU usage @ 43% = 70fps

Predicted:
4.7GHz 3DVision CPU usage @ 58% = 58/43*70 = 94FPS

2D FPS:
4.7GHz 2D CPU usage @ 58% = 145fps

What should be the FPS loss due to 3D Vision if there was no bottleneck caused by 3DVision?
= (2D FPS / Predicted 3D FPS if CPU usage wasn't gimped) / 2D FPS
= (145fps-94fps)/145fps
= 35%

It is interesting how this calculated drop in performance, supported by empirical evidence, shows a "35%" performance loss to 3D Vision. This percentage tallies up exactly with what was actually measured while 3D vision gaming years ago with the "old" 3D vision driver.

Perhaps the most important conclusion:

7. 3D Vision bottleneck drop in performance on:

7700K/8700K = (145fps-70fps)/145fps*100= 52%
i7-980X / x5660 @ 4.4GHz measured by nVidia and us = 61%

Should be: 35%, but the faster the Clock x IPC, the smaller the bottleneck problem gets.



Conclusion of conclusions: Upgrading from an old AMD and Intel CPUs ought to give a substantial improvement in 3D Vision performance. Do the GTA 5 test yourself to see how much of an improvement is possible from your current setup.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 12/06/2017 03:24 PM   
It would be great if you could compare The Witcher 3 or Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They showed big fps gains when I went from an i5 to an i7. Adding two more real cores could make performance higher (at least in 2D it does, according to benchmarks).
It would be great if you could compare The Witcher 3 or Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They showed big fps gains when I went from an i5 to an i7. Adding two more real cores could make performance higher (at least in 2D it does, according to benchmarks).

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

Posted 12/06/2017 06:51 PM   
Thanks again for all your efforts and keeping us up to date RAGEdemon. I still have a hope (yes I am naive. :p )
Thanks again for all your efforts and keeping us up to date RAGEdemon. I still have a hope (yes I am naive. :p )

Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z

Posted 12/08/2017 09:35 AM   
[quote="masterotaku"]It would be great if you could compare The Witcher 3 or Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They showed big fps gains when I went from an i5 to an i7. Adding two more real cores could make performance higher (at least in 2D it does, according to benchmarks).[/quote] I do not believe he has those games. I can compare 4 core 7700K to my old 6 core Xeon x5660/i7-980X: [color="green"] [b]Re: The Witcher 3:[/b][/color] Ultra preset Resolution:720p VSync OFF All Hairworks OFF. Novigrad Square signpost, look to the right, up the road. [img]https://image.ibb.co/kAYvVG/Witcher3002_050.jpg[/img] [color="green"]4-core[/color] 7700K @5GHz, 4.7GHz Cache/Uncore. AVX Offset 0. MCE ON. 3600MHz 15-15-15-35 DDR4 Memory: 3D Vision ON: FPS [color="green"]73fps[/color] [color="green"]6-core[/color] i7-980X / x5660 @ 4.4GHz, 1600MHz DDR3 memory: 3D Vision ON: FPS [color="green"]41fps[/color] [color="green"]Conclusion:[/color] x5660 @4.4 > 7700K @5GHz IPC x Clock performance increase (Cinebench Single Thread): [color="green"]35%[/color] 3D Vision performance increase: (73-41)/41 = [color="green"]78%[/color]
masterotaku said:It would be great if you could compare The Witcher 3 or Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They showed big fps gains when I went from an i5 to an i7. Adding two more real cores could make performance higher (at least in 2D it does, according to benchmarks).


I do not believe he has those games. I can compare 4 core 7700K to my old 6 core Xeon x5660/i7-980X:

Re: The Witcher 3:

Ultra preset
Resolution:720p
VSync OFF
All Hairworks OFF.
Novigrad Square signpost, look to the right, up the road.

Image

4-core 7700K @5GHz, 4.7GHz Cache/Uncore. AVX Offset 0. MCE ON. 3600MHz 15-15-15-35 DDR4 Memory:
3D Vision ON:
FPS 73fps

6-core i7-980X / x5660 @ 4.4GHz, 1600MHz DDR3 memory:
3D Vision ON:
FPS 41fps

Conclusion:
x5660 @4.4 > 7700K @5GHz IPC x Clock performance increase (Cinebench Single Thread): 35%

3D Vision performance increase: (73-41)/41 = 78%

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 12/09/2017 03:51 AM   
i have witcher 3 yes. but not deusx...it looked so horrible so im in no interested to buy it
i have witcher 3 yes. but not deusx...it looked so horrible so im in no interested to buy it

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 12/10/2017 11:26 AM   
rage what was the time when you benched ?
rage what was the time when you benched ?

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 12/10/2017 11:27 AM   
I did some fps measuring with fraps and afterburner. witcher3_720p_4.7ghz_EMCon_mem3600 [IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/2mzjcp5.png[/IMG] next witcher3_720p_4.7ghz__EMCon_mem4000 ..fps were fluctuating from 93-95 in this scene so here is not that much of difference and can also becaused from rebooting in the middle and the population on the scene chaged and i did not see that much difference in the overal max framerate with 4000Mhz mem when playing gta but according to my benchmark with fraps on gtaV the performance was more smooth and low frames did not drop so low. but it would need more games and runs to verify. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/nffv38.png[/IMG] last i did 1080p on the same run witcher3_1080p_4.7ghz__EMCon_mem4000 [IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/2zs88ye.png[/IMG] ...i just realized this game has big boost on the 8700k..was this expected rage ?
I did some fps measuring with fraps and afterburner.


witcher3_720p_4.7ghz_EMCon_mem3600

Image

next

witcher3_720p_4.7ghz__EMCon_mem4000 ..fps were fluctuating from 93-95 in this scene so here is not that much of
difference and can also becaused from rebooting in the middle and the population on the scene chaged and i did not see that much difference in the overal max framerate with 4000Mhz mem when playing gta but according to my benchmark with fraps on gtaV the performance was more smooth and low frames did not drop so low. but it would need more games and runs to verify.

Image

last i did 1080p on the same run

witcher3_1080p_4.7ghz__EMCon_mem4000

Image

...i just realized this game has big boost on the 8700k..was this expected rage ?

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 12/10/2017 12:32 PM   
Did a recheck on that 1080p and it´s correct. [IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/nqz0io.png[/IMG]
Did a recheck on that 1080p and it´s correct.

Image

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 12/10/2017 12:38 PM   
Damn, that's good. I get 73fps in 3D there at 720p. That's with my 7700K at 4.9GHz and my RAM at 3866MHz.
Damn, that's good. I get 73fps in 3D there at 720p. That's with my 7700K at 4.9GHz and my RAM at 3866MHz.

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

Posted 12/10/2017 02:25 PM   
Wow, that's amazing, thanks for the results Metal-O-Holic! I had expected future games to take advantage of the extra cores in 3D even with the bottleneck, but I was pessimistic about the right here-right now. I am very happy to find out that it makes a huge difference to some current games even! I think we can be much more confident about recommending 8700K for 3D Vision now, there seems to be a real, tangible difference over a 7700k, and especially over old generations!
Wow, that's amazing, thanks for the results Metal-O-Holic!

I had expected future games to take advantage of the extra cores in 3D even with the bottleneck, but I was pessimistic about the right here-right now. I am very happy to find out that it makes a huge difference to some current games even!

I think we can be much more confident about recommending 8700K for 3D Vision now, there seems to be a real, tangible difference over a 7700k, and especially over old generations!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 12/10/2017 05:46 PM   
Yes indeed it seems promising :) I can´t wait to get my water loop back in action so i can bump up the cores even a little. my titanX also is abit lazy as it´s on stock cooler but im kind of waiting to upgrade or buy another. and after that well see on that cooling. I just have been having power out problems with my printing..i did already draw my radiator casing but have had 2 failed prints, one at 20 and one at 50 prosent because of fluctuating power at my area....so untill i waste any filaments more tomorrow im driving to get a small UPS for my printter. I also had some wierd crackling sound from my case. i thought it was the power...well actually im not yet shure was it or not but i found someone else reporting crackling with z370 aorus 7 gaming at the situation when you are having 66 status code on the motherboard. i just did not see that untill i opened the case. the rig works ok, no problems but the 66 code is occuring when using 4000mhz mem frequency. to my ears the crackling sound came from the psu but i don´t understand how that MHZ could affect it but it went away as soon as i went back to 3600Mhz mem. and i have 1600W superflower so it can´t be due low power :D
Yes indeed it seems promising :)
I can´t wait to get my water loop back in action so i can bump up the cores even a little.
my titanX also is abit lazy as it´s on stock cooler but im kind of waiting to upgrade or buy another. and
after that well see on that cooling.
I just have been having power out problems with my printing..i did already draw my radiator casing but have had 2 failed prints, one at 20 and one at 50 prosent because of fluctuating power at my area....so
untill i waste any filaments more tomorrow im driving to get a small UPS for my printter.

I also had some wierd crackling sound from my case. i thought it was the power...well actually im not yet shure was it or not but i found someone else reporting crackling with z370 aorus 7 gaming at the situation when you are having 66 status code on the motherboard. i just did not see that untill i opened the case.
the rig works ok, no problems but the 66 code is occuring when using 4000mhz mem frequency.
to my ears the crackling sound came from the psu but i don´t understand how that MHZ could affect it but it went away as soon as i went back to 3600Mhz mem. and i have 1600W superflower so it can´t be due low power :D

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 12/10/2017 09:53 PM   
4000MHz ought to help by a few fps bit over 3600MHz mate, glad it makes your gameplay seem smoother: https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html If you want to stay at 3600 for a while, you should be able to reduce your primary timings by 1 to compensate a little. Also Metal-O-Holic and @masterotaku especially, your g.skill tRFC is likely set too high because XMP does not control secondary/tertiary timings. Make sure to set tRFC @ ~270 for 3600MHz, a little higher for 3866MHz/4000MHz. Note that currently it might be as high as 630! You can use CPU-Z/hwinfo to check, or find it in your BIOS. tRFC makes the second biggest difference after CL: [img]http://image.playwares.com/xe/files/attach/images/52/164/011/e06479225c5cd22b3110322b891ae308.png[/img]
4000MHz ought to help by a few fps bit over 3600MHz mate, glad it makes your gameplay seem smoother:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html

If you want to stay at 3600 for a while, you should be able to reduce your primary timings by 1 to compensate a little.

Also Metal-O-Holic and @masterotaku especially, your g.skill tRFC is likely set too high because XMP does not control secondary/tertiary timings. Make sure to set tRFC @ ~270 for 3600MHz, a little higher for 3866MHz/4000MHz. Note that currently it might be as high as 630! You can use CPU-Z/hwinfo to check, or find it in your BIOS.

tRFC makes the second biggest difference after CL:

Image

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 12/11/2017 10:13 AM   
Got an awsome update on performance on call of pribyat. 56 on the scene i got under 30 with my 2500k sandyB... if i only would get the fix properly working with windows 10. does anyone know what causes profile not to save but when hitting save setting, you get a saved message but at the same time values go to default ?
Got an awsome update on performance on call of pribyat. 56 on the scene i got under 30 with my 2500k sandyB...
if i only would get the fix properly working with windows 10.

does anyone know what causes profile not to save but when hitting save setting, you get a saved message but
at the same time values go to default ?

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 12/12/2017 11:09 PM   
  17 / 22    
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