Tobe honest the only thing that kept me buying passive after passive was 3dvisions interleaved.
Once i'd gone back to active and seen how the 3d works again with virtually zero blur and a great res i loved it and was'nt going back to passive for gaming hence the reason i got a 3d pj for ghostless 3d gaming and a plasma for blurless 2d gaming at 60hz :)
It's just a shame i can't get 1080p 3dvision anymore with no added input lag, so now tridef is my prefered 3d software due to its 1080p sbs :( i do miss 1080p passive interleaved, it's not much better than 720p framepacking but it is better nonetheless imho.
Just trying to blag my mate into selling me my lg 47ld920 back ;)
Spose i'll see what 2013 and checkerboard has to offer next :)
I just remembered teh actual time i started having issues and noticing 3d input lag.
It was with dirt 2 or 3 and must of been a lg 450u passive, i was using tridef for interleaved/interlaced but it had issues with shadows so did'nt look the best but was playable, 3dtvplay ( must of not long been released ) looked nearly perfect and shadows worked great, the only issue was i could'nt drive with 3dtvplay due to using no added input lag interleaved 3d and 3dtvplay needed 3d proccessing from the tv so i was seeing input lag while driving, even the wheel moved at different rates whiles using interleaved or framepacking.
Spose that's why if i cant use tv for driving in 3d then it has too much input lg for me.
I do have 2 sets infront of me that are the best i have ever seen so there is obviously better and worse out there.
Tobe honest the only thing that kept me buying passive after passive was 3dvisions interleaved.
Once i'd gone back to active and seen how the 3d works again with virtually zero blur and a great res i loved it and was'nt going back to passive for gaming hence the reason i got a 3d pj for ghostless 3d gaming and a plasma for blurless 2d gaming at 60hz :)
It's just a shame i can't get 1080p 3dvision anymore with no added input lag, so now tridef is my prefered 3d software due to its 1080p sbs :( i do miss 1080p passive interleaved, it's not much better than 720p framepacking but it is better nonetheless imho.
Just trying to blag my mate into selling me my lg 47ld920 back ;)
Spose i'll see what 2013 and checkerboard has to offer next :)
I just remembered teh actual time i started having issues and noticing 3d input lag.
It was with dirt 2 or 3 and must of been a lg 450u passive, i was using tridef for interleaved/interlaced but it had issues with shadows so did'nt look the best but was playable, 3dtvplay ( must of not long been released ) looked nearly perfect and shadows worked great, the only issue was i could'nt drive with 3dtvplay due to using no added input lag interleaved 3d and 3dtvplay needed 3d proccessing from the tv so i was seeing input lag while driving, even the wheel moved at different rates whiles using interleaved or framepacking.
Spose that's why if i cant use tv for driving in 3d then it has too much input lg for me.
I do have 2 sets infront of me that are the best i have ever seen so there is obviously better and worse out there.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
i'd say no but i dont have a stool for my projector at the moment so i'm 3d gaming on it.
Playing farcry 3, it has 3d xtalk here and there, for that game it's extremely playable.
Whoever playing Test driver ferrari racing legends shows annoying xtalk in alot of stuff, eg in cockpit mode i see xtalk of the road in each tyre, some of the cockpit allso has xtalk, map hud has constant xtalk so with them all together it means for this game depth has tobe quite low or huds need tobe set in 2d.
Played some Dirt 3 and again that has constant xtalk on tyres and a few other things here and there.
H5360bd projector shows zero xtalk so i really have to get a stand so i can set it back up, nothing better than loads of depth with zero xtalk throughout the 3d gaming experience at high depth.
I brought a cheap plasma for the 2d blurless gaming and for the use of tridef 1080psbs as my 720p pj looks abit pap with sbs.
I allso admit tobeing scared about ir, after this being my first real plasma that i'm keeping, if i get ir ect sobe it, i'll just get another one there cheap and give great performance.
i'd say no but i dont have a stool for my projector at the moment so i'm 3d gaming on it.
Playing farcry 3, it has 3d xtalk here and there, for that game it's extremely playable.
Whoever playing Test driver ferrari racing legends shows annoying xtalk in alot of stuff, eg in cockpit mode i see xtalk of the road in each tyre, some of the cockpit allso has xtalk, map hud has constant xtalk so with them all together it means for this game depth has tobe quite low or huds need tobe set in 2d.
Played some Dirt 3 and again that has constant xtalk on tyres and a few other things here and there.
H5360bd projector shows zero xtalk so i really have to get a stand so i can set it back up, nothing better than loads of depth with zero xtalk throughout the 3d gaming experience at high depth.
I brought a cheap plasma for the 2d blurless gaming and for the use of tridef 1080psbs as my 720p pj looks abit pap with sbs.
I allso admit tobeing scared about ir, after this being my first real plasma that i'm keeping, if i get ir ect sobe it, i'll just get another one there cheap and give great performance.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
TriDef: i d/led tridef and you guys were spot on! games loaded from within tridef, just freaking work.
3D Lag: I booted up Borderlands 2 in 2D and Crysis 1 this AM, i really cant notice any lag. It also runs really smooth... like really smooth. Tonight i will compare the TV with the m17 alienware using a usb razor mouse and see if there is any noticeable difference when moving the mouse around.
I also cant notice any difference in lag between 2D Borderlands 2 and 3D CB 1080p 60hz Borderlands 2
same with Crysis 2 2D and Crysis 2 SBS 3D Vision 1080p with the Motion Plus setting on "Smooth". So both CB and SBS with smoothing on seem to be the same.
Frame rate: One thing that does stand out with Checkerboard is the framerate drop, maybe its time to get another GTX 680 to keep it around 60fps at all times.. you really can spend a ton of cash on this stuff.
I still find it so wierd looking at a massive screen with a 3D game on it, its like looking into a window or something... i thought Crysis 1 had a very high tree count, putting it in 3D you realise there really arent that many trees and bushes...
Side note, i have a HD movie cam that records at 50fps though i doubt it would work recording my hand movement with the screen in the background, 60hz versus 50hz would hurtz me eyes...
Current setup;
Windows 8 Pro
GTX 680 oc
65" series 8 sammy - UA65ES8000M
20 metre HDMI+Ethernet 1.4 cable
Off topic a bit...
I actually meant to buy a 10m HDMI cable but the ebay dude sent me a 20m. i thought that might cause issues with 1080p CB 60hz, screen fonts, lag etc. but there was no noticeable difference between a 1.5 and 20m cable. I run windows on the sammy with 1:1 pixel mapping and no font smoothing so its very easy to notice pixel bleeding or signal loss.
TriDef: i d/led tridef and you guys were spot on! games loaded from within tridef, just freaking work.
3D Lag: I booted up Borderlands 2 in 2D and Crysis 1 this AM, i really cant notice any lag. It also runs really smooth... like really smooth. Tonight i will compare the TV with the m17 alienware using a usb razor mouse and see if there is any noticeable difference when moving the mouse around.
I also cant notice any difference in lag between 2D Borderlands 2 and 3D CB 1080p 60hz Borderlands 2
same with Crysis 2 2D and Crysis 2 SBS 3D Vision 1080p with the Motion Plus setting on "Smooth". So both CB and SBS with smoothing on seem to be the same.
Frame rate: One thing that does stand out with Checkerboard is the framerate drop, maybe its time to get another GTX 680 to keep it around 60fps at all times.. you really can spend a ton of cash on this stuff.
I still find it so wierd looking at a massive screen with a 3D game on it, its like looking into a window or something... i thought Crysis 1 had a very high tree count, putting it in 3D you realise there really arent that many trees and bushes...
Side note, i have a HD movie cam that records at 50fps though i doubt it would work recording my hand movement with the screen in the background, 60hz versus 50hz would hurtz me eyes...
Current setup;
Windows 8 Pro
GTX 680 oc
65" series 8 sammy - UA65ES8000M
20 metre HDMI+Ethernet 1.4 cable
Off topic a bit...
I actually meant to buy a 10m HDMI cable but the ebay dude sent me a 20m. i thought that might cause issues with 1080p CB 60hz, screen fonts, lag etc. but there was no noticeable difference between a 1.5 and 20m cable. I run windows on the sammy with 1:1 pixel mapping and no font smoothing so its very easy to notice pixel bleeding or signal loss.
Hey mocca, got it, thank you so much!
@betc
Glad you have discovered Tridef. And the news about no noticeable lag are amazing. ))) Keep sharing your experience, maybe you should try a racing game to spot some lag... or not to spot any ;)
@betc
Glad you have discovered Tridef. And the news about no noticeable lag are amazing. ))) Keep sharing your experience, maybe you should try a racing game to spot some lag... or not to spot any ;)
@Barrent: i was thinking of getting Dirt3, its just i have so many unplayed games on steam already. im surprised they haven't sent me an email saying i should at least install games i buy..
really need a gaming chair so i can sit comfortably in front of the TV. that's next on the list.
I will keep sharing info, i know i struggled to find much on the ES8000 series and 3D Vision when i was considering..
@Barrent: i was thinking of getting Dirt3, its just i have so many unplayed games on steam already. im surprised they haven't sent me an email saying i should at least install games i buy..
really need a gaming chair so i can sit comfortably in front of the TV. that's next on the list.
I will keep sharing info, i know i struggled to find much on the ES8000 series and 3D Vision when i was considering..
Thank you, and enjoy your gaming at a whole new level ;)
It seems we don't have an army of people around gaming on their active 3D TVs. I tried to get some info on the subject from Tridef forum community, but the response was so poor. Just one almost irrelevant reply. (((
Gleaning info from the Internet...
Thank you, and enjoy your gaming at a whole new level ;)
It seems we don't have an army of people around gaming on their active 3D TVs. I tried to get some info on the subject from Tridef forum community, but the response was so poor. Just one almost irrelevant reply. (((
Gleaning info from the Internet...
I'll just piont out something i think i see as fact here.
Betc do you use frame interpolation in your games wether 2d or 3d?
I think you do "also cant notice any difference in lag between 2D Borderlands 2 and 3D CB 1080p 60hz Borderlands 2
same with Crysis 2 2D and Crysis 2 SBS 3D Vision 1080p with the Motion Plus setting on "Smooth". So both CB and SBS with smoothing on seem to be the same.
Fi increases input lag , thats a fact.
You say you see no input lag on this set but you game in 3d and 2d with fi on, i cannot see your view on input lag as being a valid one and as such i'd have to reccomend people ignore your remarks on input lag if this is the case.
If it is the case try turning fame interpolation off.
From what i believe you can't ? as it creates massive ghosting in 2d as thats how it was on the 46 and 55 i had so you would'nt enjoy your 2d gaming, is this correct?
Sorry if this comes over as rude, i just added the math up ;)
I'll just piont out something i think i see as fact here.
Betc do you use frame interpolation in your games wether 2d or 3d?
I think you do "also cant notice any difference in lag between 2D Borderlands 2 and 3D CB 1080p 60hz Borderlands 2
same with Crysis 2 2D and Crysis 2 SBS 3D Vision 1080p with the Motion Plus setting on "Smooth". So both CB and SBS with smoothing on seem to be the same.
Fi increases input lag , thats a fact.
You say you see no input lag on this set but you game in 3d and 2d with fi on, i cannot see your view on input lag as being a valid one and as such i'd have to reccomend people ignore your remarks on input lag if this is the case.
If it is the case try turning fame interpolation off.
From what i believe you can't ? as it creates massive ghosting in 2d as thats how it was on the 46 and 55 i had so you would'nt enjoy your 2d gaming, is this correct?
Sorry if this comes over as rude, i just added the math up ;)
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
Hey mocca, i dont think this should be taken as rude. it feels like we are all aiming for the same thing, to help others get what they pay for and no what to expect.
I'm going to split my answer into two posts as i feel there are two issues on the table.
The first - Noticeable "Input Lag" between 2D, 3D and frame interpolation modes.
Frame interpolation = Motion Plus on the Sammy, correct? frames are inserted by the TV to smooth the picture out.
Checkerboard (A sammy TV setting) disables most of the Sammys features including [u]Motion Plus[/u], so there is no way to enable it when using Checkerboard. Therefore any references to 3D and Motion Plus are for SBS or 1080p 24hz mode where Checkerboard on the Sammy is [u]not[/u] enabled.
Testing methods;
> I have tried 2D and 3D with Motion Plus set to; off, on and smooth (max unless u use custom).
> I have tried SBS, CB and 2D modes with B2, Cry2, FC3 (where they are supported).
Again i reiterate,
> I see no noticeable input lag difference between having Motion Plus enabled or disabled (in 2D and 3D)
> I see no noticeable input lag difference between 2D gaming and 3D gaming period.
This morning I fired up Crysis 1 2D, made sure i was in an area that was rendering around the 100fps mark to ensure the game never dipped below 60fps (60hz). In that scene i tried all Motion Plus settings specifically looking for lag differences. I cant see any. From no Motion Plus to the Smooth setting i just cant see any lag, in fact with Motion Plus on Smooth it looks like silk and is highly responsive when i move the mouse.
[edit] i dont understand the dot point editor function..
Hey mocca, i dont think this should be taken as rude. it feels like we are all aiming for the same thing, to help others get what they pay for and no what to expect.
I'm going to split my answer into two posts as i feel there are two issues on the table.
The first - Noticeable "Input Lag" between 2D, 3D and frame interpolation modes.
Frame interpolation = Motion Plus on the Sammy, correct? frames are inserted by the TV to smooth the picture out.
Checkerboard (A sammy TV setting) disables most of the Sammys features including Motion Plus, so there is no way to enable it when using Checkerboard. Therefore any references to 3D and Motion Plus are for SBS or 1080p 24hz mode where Checkerboard on the Sammy is not enabled.
Testing methods;
> I have tried 2D and 3D with Motion Plus set to; off, on and smooth (max unless u use custom).
> I have tried SBS, CB and 2D modes with B2, Cry2, FC3 (where they are supported).
Again i reiterate,
> I see no noticeable input lag difference between having Motion Plus enabled or disabled (in 2D and 3D)
> I see no noticeable input lag difference between 2D gaming and 3D gaming period.
This morning I fired up Crysis 1 2D, made sure i was in an area that was rendering around the 100fps mark to ensure the game never dipped below 60fps (60hz). In that scene i tried all Motion Plus settings specifically looking for lag differences. I cant see any. From no Motion Plus to the Smooth setting i just cant see any lag, in fact with Motion Plus on Smooth it looks like silk and is highly responsive when i move the mouse.
[edit] i dont understand the dot point editor function..
Issue 2 : Input lag - HDTV versus LCD Monitor
I fired up the Alienware m17 and loaded FC3. set the game to min settings and 1280x720, plugged in the razor mouse and did a twitch test moving the mouse left and right. it feels like the alienware is ever so slightly more responsive. [u]This is as i would have expected[/u]. For precision competitive gaming you would buy a Gaming monitor over a HDTV any day.
And this is where the water gets a bit muddy... its personal opinions more than fact.
When the two are side by side i can feel a slight variance. When just looking at the Sammy i dont feel any lag period.. it doesnt fell like it impacts the gaming experience at all. To put it another way, if i was shown my Sammy setup and asked if there was any input lag i would have said no. I do know how frustrating it can be when the mouse is laggy, it drives me up the wall in first person shooters. not only is aiming hard with lag it can also mean the mouse over shoots.
I cant notice it, this doesnt mean others wont.
I fired up the Alienware m17 and loaded FC3. set the game to min settings and 1280x720, plugged in the razor mouse and did a twitch test moving the mouse left and right. it feels like the alienware is ever so slightly more responsive. This is as i would have expected. For precision competitive gaming you would buy a Gaming monitor over a HDTV any day.
And this is where the water gets a bit muddy... its personal opinions more than fact.
When the two are side by side i can feel a slight variance. When just looking at the Sammy i dont feel any lag period.. it doesnt fell like it impacts the gaming experience at all. To put it another way, if i was shown my Sammy setup and asked if there was any input lag i would have said no. I do know how frustrating it can be when the mouse is laggy, it drives me up the wall in first person shooters. not only is aiming hard with lag it can also mean the mouse over shoots.
I think you may need to just go ahead and buy it as we had contadicting views.
I'm allways open to the fact that usa versions may different to uk versions or new firmware could be part of it, or i could be wrong, i've seen much stranger things happen.
Or i do indeed have the es8000 mixed up with the dt50 allthough one of my past quotes from when i had the es8000 does state it has alittle more input lag in 3d than i was used to, anything related to the dt50 when i had it states it has alot of 3d input lag.
If i have got mixed up all i can do is apologize :(
I feel like i may of cheated myself now and i should of got the ps51e8000 plamsa, spose i'll not know myself now as next tv will be a 2013 one that supports checkerboard lol
I say Fi increases input lag, but only because i have seen it on the tv's i've tried it on, the es8000 being one of them due to the excessive ghosting/motion blur at 60hz in 2d, i say 3d adds loads of input lag as i've seen on the 3dtv's i've had but i have a plasma and a projector in front of me that is so close to 2d input lag in 3d that it is very hard to notice so i am open to possibilitys
Eg
Some games might be played with 0% input lag, but the actual game has mouse lag so the mouse does'nt move 1.1 with the onscreen movement, using this game with a laggy tv could make the tv look laggy as hell i suppose.
Hitman absolution is all i can compare with at the moment, if i get to a scene where i'm locked at 60fps and move the mouse i see what looks like 1.1 ratio from mouse to movement so this game has great mouse lag performance.
It's nice to see the mouse move with onscreen actions instantly ;)
Just pionted out Hitman due to how fast the response is , but only when your in a scene that you have a locked 60fps.
I think you may need to just go ahead and buy it as we had contadicting views.
I'm allways open to the fact that usa versions may different to uk versions or new firmware could be part of it, or i could be wrong, i've seen much stranger things happen.
Or i do indeed have the es8000 mixed up with the dt50 allthough one of my past quotes from when i had the es8000 does state it has alittle more input lag in 3d than i was used to, anything related to the dt50 when i had it states it has alot of 3d input lag.
If i have got mixed up all i can do is apologize :(
I feel like i may of cheated myself now and i should of got the ps51e8000 plamsa, spose i'll not know myself now as next tv will be a 2013 one that supports checkerboard lol
I say Fi increases input lag, but only because i have seen it on the tv's i've tried it on, the es8000 being one of them due to the excessive ghosting/motion blur at 60hz in 2d, i say 3d adds loads of input lag as i've seen on the 3dtv's i've had but i have a plasma and a projector in front of me that is so close to 2d input lag in 3d that it is very hard to notice so i am open to possibilitys
Eg
Some games might be played with 0% input lag, but the actual game has mouse lag so the mouse does'nt move 1.1 with the onscreen movement, using this game with a laggy tv could make the tv look laggy as hell i suppose.
Hitman absolution is all i can compare with at the moment, if i get to a scene where i'm locked at 60fps and move the mouse i see what looks like 1.1 ratio from mouse to movement so this game has great mouse lag performance.
It's nice to see the mouse move with onscreen actions instantly ;)
Just pionted out Hitman due to how fast the response is , but only when your in a scene that you have a locked 60fps.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
I spent a lot of time going through the menu options in the eS8000 to see if there was a way to reduce the input lag i was seeing. Im not sure i tried everything as the menu system was a little confusing and pretty extensive. Hopefully its just a firmware issue.
Barrent, have you considered taking your PC to a store and testing it out?
I spent a lot of time going through the menu options in the eS8000 to see if there was a way to reduce the input lag i was seeing. Im not sure i tried everything as the menu system was a little confusing and pretty extensive. Hopefully its just a firmware issue.
Barrent, have you considered taking your PC to a store and testing it out?
@Libertine taking the PC into the store is really a good idea, hopefully its allowed.
@mocca i do hope its just firmware, sounds like you guys have done lots of testing as well, hope its not just me.
@Barrent i spent considerable time playing Crysis 1 on the weekend, all i can say is wow! i have already completed half the game again, its just such a new experience. I never thought i would be blown away by new tech again but its up there. and the weird thing is, my game defining moments are the Voodoo cards, Far Cry on the 9800pro and Crysis on the 8800GTX. Now Crysis is back in there with 3D.
I just cant believe how immersive the experience is, you just get into the TV. i spend half my time stalking enemies. it feels a lot more like your there and can make better tactical decisions as you know where enemies are not just on the map but in the 3D world... hard to explain, but it adds a layer i never thought existed, blows my mind. i die so much less now.
[b]A few things i noticed[/b]
Screen Size > I sit about 1.5 metres from my 65" tv and i still feel the screen could be a bit bigger (in a perfect world that is). I guess at 80-100 inches peoples heads and world objects would appear at the correct size. although that could start making it a bit too real?!? I find when people in crysis 1 are on the screen i just sit there looking at them... its awesome.
1080p 120fps > when games are running in Checkerboard you really start to stress your machine. I would recommend a GTX 690 or 2x GTX 670+. Crysis brings my machine to its knees, still playable but some would say that 30fps average is not good enough. i am actually thinking of adding a second GTX 680 just to smooth things out.
Detailed games > i am finding that games like Borderlands 2 are better in 2D as there really isnt enough scenery to justify 3D, its so arid. Crysis 2 just looked like the textures were from 5 years ago so it was a bit 'Minecraft' looking. It took away from the experience a little. BF3 is nice, but i have to play some more before i can rate it. I guess what i am saying is, not all games are suited to 3D, or something like that.
I feel Crysis has the level of detail required to stop my brain thinking "that just looks fake". Lots of trees and objects in Crysis 2 have no depth, they are just flat textures that are cheap and blocky. Before 3D, I thought Crysis 1 was so detailed and thick with trees, wow do you change your mind when you see them in 3D, there are still quite a few bushes, but no where near as many as i thought...
Next up...
> Far Cry 3 when TriDef release the profile.
> Crysis 3 when it comes out.
> Just Cause 2, when it decides to stop crashing.
@Libertine taking the PC into the store is really a good idea, hopefully its allowed.
@mocca i do hope its just firmware, sounds like you guys have done lots of testing as well, hope its not just me.
@Barrent i spent considerable time playing Crysis 1 on the weekend, all i can say is wow! i have already completed half the game again, its just such a new experience. I never thought i would be blown away by new tech again but its up there. and the weird thing is, my game defining moments are the Voodoo cards, Far Cry on the 9800pro and Crysis on the 8800GTX. Now Crysis is back in there with 3D.
I just cant believe how immersive the experience is, you just get into the TV. i spend half my time stalking enemies. it feels a lot more like your there and can make better tactical decisions as you know where enemies are not just on the map but in the 3D world... hard to explain, but it adds a layer i never thought existed, blows my mind. i die so much less now.
A few things i noticed
Screen Size > I sit about 1.5 metres from my 65" tv and i still feel the screen could be a bit bigger (in a perfect world that is). I guess at 80-100 inches peoples heads and world objects would appear at the correct size. although that could start making it a bit too real?!? I find when people in crysis 1 are on the screen i just sit there looking at them... its awesome.
1080p 120fps > when games are running in Checkerboard you really start to stress your machine. I would recommend a GTX 690 or 2x GTX 670+. Crysis brings my machine to its knees, still playable but some would say that 30fps average is not good enough. i am actually thinking of adding a second GTX 680 just to smooth things out.
Detailed games > i am finding that games like Borderlands 2 are better in 2D as there really isnt enough scenery to justify 3D, its so arid. Crysis 2 just looked like the textures were from 5 years ago so it was a bit 'Minecraft' looking. It took away from the experience a little. BF3 is nice, but i have to play some more before i can rate it. I guess what i am saying is, not all games are suited to 3D, or something like that.
I feel Crysis has the level of detail required to stop my brain thinking "that just looks fake". Lots of trees and objects in Crysis 2 have no depth, they are just flat textures that are cheap and blocky. Before 3D, I thought Crysis 1 was so detailed and thick with trees, wow do you change your mind when you see them in 3D, there are still quite a few bushes, but no where near as many as i thought...
Next up...
> Far Cry 3 when TriDef release the profile.
> Crysis 3 when it comes out.
> Just Cause 2, when it decides to stop crashing.
Hey thanks! And again, no noticeable lag?
As for taking my PC to TV store, I thought about it... Maybe.
BTW, Far Cry 3 plays fine on my rig with existing Far Cry 3 MushroomPeppers profile, grab it on Tridef forum!
Hey thanks! And again, no noticeable lag?
As for taking my PC to TV store, I thought about it... Maybe.
BTW, Far Cry 3 plays fine on my rig with existing Far Cry 3 MushroomPeppers profile, grab it on Tridef forum!
Once i'd gone back to active and seen how the 3d works again with virtually zero blur and a great res i loved it and was'nt going back to passive for gaming hence the reason i got a 3d pj for ghostless 3d gaming and a plasma for blurless 2d gaming at 60hz :)
It's just a shame i can't get 1080p 3dvision anymore with no added input lag, so now tridef is my prefered 3d software due to its 1080p sbs :( i do miss 1080p passive interleaved, it's not much better than 720p framepacking but it is better nonetheless imho.
Just trying to blag my mate into selling me my lg 47ld920 back ;)
Spose i'll see what 2013 and checkerboard has to offer next :)
I just remembered teh actual time i started having issues and noticing 3d input lag.
It was with dirt 2 or 3 and must of been a lg 450u passive, i was using tridef for interleaved/interlaced but it had issues with shadows so did'nt look the best but was playable, 3dtvplay ( must of not long been released ) looked nearly perfect and shadows worked great, the only issue was i could'nt drive with 3dtvplay due to using no added input lag interleaved 3d and 3dtvplay needed 3d proccessing from the tv so i was seeing input lag while driving, even the wheel moved at different rates whiles using interleaved or framepacking.
Spose that's why if i cant use tv for driving in 3d then it has too much input lg for me.
I do have 2 sets infront of me that are the best i have ever seen so there is obviously better and worse out there.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
So actually you don't play in 3D on your plasma?
Playing farcry 3, it has 3d xtalk here and there, for that game it's extremely playable.
Whoever playing Test driver ferrari racing legends shows annoying xtalk in alot of stuff, eg in cockpit mode i see xtalk of the road in each tyre, some of the cockpit allso has xtalk, map hud has constant xtalk so with them all together it means for this game depth has tobe quite low or huds need tobe set in 2d.
Played some Dirt 3 and again that has constant xtalk on tyres and a few other things here and there.
H5360bd projector shows zero xtalk so i really have to get a stand so i can set it back up, nothing better than loads of depth with zero xtalk throughout the 3d gaming experience at high depth.
I brought a cheap plasma for the 2d blurless gaming and for the use of tridef 1080psbs as my 720p pj looks abit pap with sbs.
I allso admit tobeing scared about ir, after this being my first real plasma that i'm keeping, if i get ir ect sobe it, i'll just get another one there cheap and give great performance.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
3D Lag: I booted up Borderlands 2 in 2D and Crysis 1 this AM, i really cant notice any lag. It also runs really smooth... like really smooth. Tonight i will compare the TV with the m17 alienware using a usb razor mouse and see if there is any noticeable difference when moving the mouse around.
I also cant notice any difference in lag between 2D Borderlands 2 and 3D CB 1080p 60hz Borderlands 2
same with Crysis 2 2D and Crysis 2 SBS 3D Vision 1080p with the Motion Plus setting on "Smooth". So both CB and SBS with smoothing on seem to be the same.
Frame rate: One thing that does stand out with Checkerboard is the framerate drop, maybe its time to get another GTX 680 to keep it around 60fps at all times.. you really can spend a ton of cash on this stuff.
I still find it so wierd looking at a massive screen with a 3D game on it, its like looking into a window or something... i thought Crysis 1 had a very high tree count, putting it in 3D you realise there really arent that many trees and bushes...
Side note, i have a HD movie cam that records at 50fps though i doubt it would work recording my hand movement with the screen in the background, 60hz versus 50hz would hurtz me eyes...
Current setup;
Windows 8 Pro
GTX 680 oc
65" series 8 sammy - UA65ES8000M
20 metre HDMI+Ethernet 1.4 cable
Off topic a bit...
I actually meant to buy a 10m HDMI cable but the ebay dude sent me a 20m. i thought that might cause issues with 1080p CB 60hz, screen fonts, lag etc. but there was no noticeable difference between a 1.5 and 20m cable. I run windows on the sammy with 1:1 pixel mapping and no font smoothing so its very easy to notice pixel bleeding or signal loss.
65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential
@betc
Glad you have discovered Tridef. And the news about no noticeable lag are amazing. ))) Keep sharing your experience, maybe you should try a racing game to spot some lag... or not to spot any ;)
really need a gaming chair so i can sit comfortably in front of the TV. that's next on the list.
I will keep sharing info, i know i struggled to find much on the ES8000 series and 3D Vision when i was considering..
65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential
It seems we don't have an army of people around gaming on their active 3D TVs. I tried to get some info on the subject from Tridef forum community, but the response was so poor. Just one almost irrelevant reply. (((
Gleaning info from the Internet...
Betc do you use frame interpolation in your games wether 2d or 3d?
I think you do "also cant notice any difference in lag between 2D Borderlands 2 and 3D CB 1080p 60hz Borderlands 2
same with Crysis 2 2D and Crysis 2 SBS 3D Vision 1080p with the Motion Plus setting on "Smooth". So both CB and SBS with smoothing on seem to be the same.
Fi increases input lag , thats a fact.
You say you see no input lag on this set but you game in 3d and 2d with fi on, i cannot see your view on input lag as being a valid one and as such i'd have to reccomend people ignore your remarks on input lag if this is the case.
If it is the case try turning fame interpolation off.
From what i believe you can't ? as it creates massive ghosting in 2d as thats how it was on the 46 and 55 i had so you would'nt enjoy your 2d gaming, is this correct?
Sorry if this comes over as rude, i just added the math up ;)
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
I'm going to split my answer into two posts as i feel there are two issues on the table.
The first - Noticeable "Input Lag" between 2D, 3D and frame interpolation modes.
Frame interpolation = Motion Plus on the Sammy, correct? frames are inserted by the TV to smooth the picture out.
Checkerboard (A sammy TV setting) disables most of the Sammys features including Motion Plus, so there is no way to enable it when using Checkerboard. Therefore any references to 3D and Motion Plus are for SBS or 1080p 24hz mode where Checkerboard on the Sammy is not enabled.
Testing methods;
> I have tried 2D and 3D with Motion Plus set to; off, on and smooth (max unless u use custom).
> I have tried SBS, CB and 2D modes with B2, Cry2, FC3 (where they are supported).
Again i reiterate,
> I see no noticeable input lag difference between having Motion Plus enabled or disabled (in 2D and 3D)
> I see no noticeable input lag difference between 2D gaming and 3D gaming period.
This morning I fired up Crysis 1 2D, made sure i was in an area that was rendering around the 100fps mark to ensure the game never dipped below 60fps (60hz). In that scene i tried all Motion Plus settings specifically looking for lag differences. I cant see any. From no Motion Plus to the Smooth setting i just cant see any lag, in fact with Motion Plus on Smooth it looks like silk and is highly responsive when i move the mouse.
[edit] i dont understand the dot point editor function..
65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential
I fired up the Alienware m17 and loaded FC3. set the game to min settings and 1280x720, plugged in the razor mouse and did a twitch test moving the mouse left and right. it feels like the alienware is ever so slightly more responsive. This is as i would have expected. For precision competitive gaming you would buy a Gaming monitor over a HDTV any day.
And this is where the water gets a bit muddy... its personal opinions more than fact.
When the two are side by side i can feel a slight variance. When just looking at the Sammy i dont feel any lag period.. it doesnt fell like it impacts the gaming experience at all. To put it another way, if i was shown my Sammy setup and asked if there was any input lag i would have said no. I do know how frustrating it can be when the mouse is laggy, it drives me up the wall in first person shooters. not only is aiming hard with lag it can also mean the mouse over shoots.
I cant notice it, this doesnt mean others wont.
65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential
I'm allways open to the fact that usa versions may different to uk versions or new firmware could be part of it, or i could be wrong, i've seen much stranger things happen.
Or i do indeed have the es8000 mixed up with the dt50 allthough one of my past quotes from when i had the es8000 does state it has alittle more input lag in 3d than i was used to, anything related to the dt50 when i had it states it has alot of 3d input lag.
If i have got mixed up all i can do is apologize :(
I feel like i may of cheated myself now and i should of got the ps51e8000 plamsa, spose i'll not know myself now as next tv will be a 2013 one that supports checkerboard lol
I say Fi increases input lag, but only because i have seen it on the tv's i've tried it on, the es8000 being one of them due to the excessive ghosting/motion blur at 60hz in 2d, i say 3d adds loads of input lag as i've seen on the 3dtv's i've had but i have a plasma and a projector in front of me that is so close to 2d input lag in 3d that it is very hard to notice so i am open to possibilitys
Eg
Some games might be played with 0% input lag, but the actual game has mouse lag so the mouse does'nt move 1.1 with the onscreen movement, using this game with a laggy tv could make the tv look laggy as hell i suppose.
Hitman absolution is all i can compare with at the moment, if i get to a scene where i'm locked at 60fps and move the mouse i see what looks like 1.1 ratio from mouse to movement so this game has great mouse lag performance.
It's nice to see the mouse move with onscreen actions instantly ;)
Just pionted out Hitman due to how fast the response is , but only when your in a scene that you have a locked 60fps.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
Barrent, have you considered taking your PC to a store and testing it out?
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
@mocca i do hope its just firmware, sounds like you guys have done lots of testing as well, hope its not just me.
@Barrent i spent considerable time playing Crysis 1 on the weekend, all i can say is wow! i have already completed half the game again, its just such a new experience. I never thought i would be blown away by new tech again but its up there. and the weird thing is, my game defining moments are the Voodoo cards, Far Cry on the 9800pro and Crysis on the 8800GTX. Now Crysis is back in there with 3D.
I just cant believe how immersive the experience is, you just get into the TV. i spend half my time stalking enemies. it feels a lot more like your there and can make better tactical decisions as you know where enemies are not just on the map but in the 3D world... hard to explain, but it adds a layer i never thought existed, blows my mind. i die so much less now.
A few things i noticed
Screen Size > I sit about 1.5 metres from my 65" tv and i still feel the screen could be a bit bigger (in a perfect world that is). I guess at 80-100 inches peoples heads and world objects would appear at the correct size. although that could start making it a bit too real?!? I find when people in crysis 1 are on the screen i just sit there looking at them... its awesome.
1080p 120fps > when games are running in Checkerboard you really start to stress your machine. I would recommend a GTX 690 or 2x GTX 670+. Crysis brings my machine to its knees, still playable but some would say that 30fps average is not good enough. i am actually thinking of adding a second GTX 680 just to smooth things out.
Detailed games > i am finding that games like Borderlands 2 are better in 2D as there really isnt enough scenery to justify 3D, its so arid. Crysis 2 just looked like the textures were from 5 years ago so it was a bit 'Minecraft' looking. It took away from the experience a little. BF3 is nice, but i have to play some more before i can rate it. I guess what i am saying is, not all games are suited to 3D, or something like that.
I feel Crysis has the level of detail required to stop my brain thinking "that just looks fake". Lots of trees and objects in Crysis 2 have no depth, they are just flat textures that are cheap and blocky. Before 3D, I thought Crysis 1 was so detailed and thick with trees, wow do you change your mind when you see them in 3D, there are still quite a few bushes, but no where near as many as i thought...
Next up...
> Far Cry 3 when TriDef release the profile.
> Crysis 3 when it comes out.
> Just Cause 2, when it decides to stop crashing.
65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential
As for taking my PC to TV store, I thought about it... Maybe.
BTW, Far Cry 3 plays fine on my rig with existing Far Cry 3 MushroomPeppers profile, grab it on Tridef forum!