[quote="SteveK@NVIDIA"]Based on where this thread has gone I need to choose my words more carefully :-)[/quote]Lol ... we're a passionate bunch, as you can see ... we love our 3D! :)
[quote="SteveK@NVIDIA"]@TsaebehT - not sure I see the point of making CM work by default with every game, as right now it is only a means for improving the default 3D Vision experience for a given game that either does not work with 3D Vision or has a low rating. (Not considering mods in this equation).[/quote]I've never said by 'default', I've only said if it worked like 3D Vision Automatic(or TriDef's Power3D), as in when enagaged it works 'Automatically' like 3D Vision Automatic does, like TriDef's Power3D does. eg. Play [u]any[/u] game, game looks like poop in 3D, turn on [s]fake 3D[/s] CM, game looks less like poop in less like 3D.
My 'point', as far as CM goes, if there has to be one is there are many games "that either [do] not work with 3D Vision or [have] a low rating." that could 'benefit' from this tech that will never be considered by the team as something to make work with CM, if it just worked then someone could try it out, instead of hoping for support for it that may never come and it seems to me like it would be more 'productive' to get it just working, like TriDef's does, and then have the team focus on adding things that actually matter to the majority of actual 3D Vision users, not what *might* matter to some 'number' that bought a 3D Vision Laptop or Kit, saw Crysis 3 in fake 3D @ 15% Depth, went Meh! and never put the glasses on again ... I can tell you right now I'm not a huge fan of it but 'Power3D' matters more to someone like me than it does to the people that already wrote off 3D[Vision] ... I usually like to end on a 'light' note, but I can't really think of anything funny to say right about now, sorry. Lol? :)
SteveK@NVIDIA said:Based on where this thread has gone I need to choose my words more carefully :-)
Lol ... we're a passionate bunch, as you can see ... we love our 3D! :)
SteveK@NVIDIA said:@TsaebehT - not sure I see the point of making CM work by default with every game, as right now it is only a means for improving the default 3D Vision experience for a given game that either does not work with 3D Vision or has a low rating. (Not considering mods in this equation).
I've never said by 'default', I've only said if it worked like 3D Vision Automatic(or TriDef's Power3D), as in when enagaged it works 'Automatically' like 3D Vision Automatic does, like TriDef's Power3D does. eg. Play any game, game looks like poop in 3D, turn on fake 3D CM, game looks less like poop in less like 3D.
My 'point', as far as CM goes, if there has to be one is there are many games "that either [do] not work with 3D Vision or [have] a low rating." that could 'benefit' from this tech that will never be considered by the team as something to make work with CM, if it just worked then someone could try it out, instead of hoping for support for it that may never come and it seems to me like it would be more 'productive' to get it just working, like TriDef's does, and then have the team focus on adding things that actually matter to the majority of actual 3D Vision users, not what *might* matter to some 'number' that bought a 3D Vision Laptop or Kit, saw Crysis 3 in fake 3D @ 15% Depth, went Meh! and never put the glasses on again ... I can tell you right now I'm not a huge fan of it but 'Power3D' matters more to someone like me than it does to the people that already wrote off 3D[Vision] ... I usually like to end on a 'light' note, but I can't really think of anything funny to say right about now, sorry. Lol? :)
I think its great that Watch Dogs is already rated. That is something we all appreciate & expect. The reality is there are only a handful of AAA titles released a year so this would be great if they are all 3d ready on day one. I don't care if it isn't "real 3d" it's better than nothing. I will probably preorder because of this.
Also I just replayed a little Hitman Absolution with the CM 3D & honestly its pretty damn good. Also I feel like the Converagence(F6) is working differently with the new driver. It actually seems to add a little more pop out instead of making it more flat in the first CM 3d release driver.
My only wish list item with the CM 3D would be a toggle option in any game whether its DX9 or 11. I mean essentially that would make every PC game CM 3d ready instead of just 20.
I think its great that Watch Dogs is already rated. That is something we all appreciate & expect. The reality is there are only a handful of AAA titles released a year so this would be great if they are all 3d ready on day one. I don't care if it isn't "real 3d" it's better than nothing. I will probably preorder because of this.
Also I just replayed a little Hitman Absolution with the CM 3D & honestly its pretty damn good. Also I feel like the Converagence(F6) is working differently with the new driver. It actually seems to add a little more pop out instead of making it more flat in the first CM 3d release driver.
My only wish list item with the CM 3D would be a toggle option in any game whether its DX9 or 11. I mean essentially that would make every PC game CM 3d ready instead of just 20.
[quote="Alien0007"]Not sure if I missed this. Can you adjust convergence with compatibility mode?? [/quote]
It's adjustable but not to the same degree as standard 3D Vision mode
[quote="Alien0007"]Not sure if I missed this. Can you adjust convergence with compatibility mode?? [/quote]It seems to work very differently though. When I tried it in Bioshock Infinite, it didn't really move anything out of the screen (popout). Instead, it seemed to bring the horizon closer into the screen (as if I was turning the depth down). It also seemed to make certain objects become flatter. Maybe it works differently in different games, but in BI I couldn't see any real use for it.
Alien0007 said:Not sure if I missed this. Can you adjust convergence with compatibility mode??
It seems to work very differently though. When I tried it in Bioshock Infinite, it didn't really move anything out of the screen (popout). Instead, it seemed to bring the horizon closer into the screen (as if I was turning the depth down). It also seemed to make certain objects become flatter. Maybe it works differently in different games, but in BI I couldn't see any real use for it.
In AC3 I found setting the character just beyond screen depth (not popping out) gave the most usable effect, but it makes objects look more like flat layers than 3d objects.
In AC3 I found setting the character just beyond screen depth (not popping out) gave the most usable effect, but it makes objects look more like flat layers than 3d objects.
Steve, you're a paragon of patience. Thanks for consistently engaging in productive conversation, even when we sometimes have responded with frustration.
I think a story on 3dvisionlive sounds like a great idea. Though I'm compelled to point out a personal irony here. By your definition, I'm a power user....yet I've never visited 3dvisionlive, and I honestly don't even know what it is! I don't even know for sure how to take a 3d screenshot, as I've never tried it! A lot of the technical stuff people talk about on this forum is mumbo jumbo to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't think we're all as hardcore as you think.
I use the helixmod not because I inherently enjoy fooling around with dll files and hacks, but because it was one of the first things that came up on google once I got my 3d monitor and started figuring out how to use it. When a brand new '3d noob' googles "how can I get my favourite new game to work with 3d vision?" they're very likely to come across the helixmod very quickly. In my experience, it's mentioned in the same breath as 3dvision almost anywhere you go. And if those people are anything like me, they'll find and install the helixmod long before they see your story on 3dvisionlive.
You're obviously right about 3D market not being not being "hot" right now. I'd personally place it somewhere between frigid and icy. But I would almost bet my life savings that this will improve over the next year or two (if nvidia lets it). I'm not saying it'll become lava hot, but it seems almost certain to me that it will improve. For two main reasons: The Oculus rift, and Gsync.
The Oculus Rift. When it comes out, two things will happen. Firstly, a LOT of people will buy it. Secondly, a LOT of those people will be disappointed by it. That is to say, they'll fall in love with the Rift (and whether or not they realise it, much of its appeal is its stereoscopic 3D), and 2D gaming will lose its appeal, as it has for most of us.
But they'll be frustrated by the dearth of supported games for the Rift, because of the multitude of hurdles in the way (most Rift games will need to be designed from the ground up, and few big studios will be willing to do that for such a comparatively small market; games in VR will need to be first-person, so forget using the Rift with Assassins' Creed 5 or Mass Effect 4; fast-moving camera in VR gives many people motion sickness, so don't expect to see Dirt 4 or Crysis 4 support the Rift; Since movement will be slower than regular games, getting from A to B will take a tediously long time, so that probably mean no Elder Scrolls 6 either; Actually, once you narrow it down, there's not much left apart from Gone Home 2). All this is to say that the Rift will give a lot of new people a thirst for 3D, but the majority of games will not support VR......but if nvidia plays their cards right, those games *will* support the 'next best thing', which is 3Dvision.
Gsync. As I understand it, all Gsync monitors will be 3Dvision-capable. So as gsync monitors start becoming the norm (at least among enthusiast gamers), many people will suddenly find themselves much closer to trying 3D: the cost of a kit, rather than the cost of an entire new monitor. That's a dramatically different prospect, and will undoubtedly result in more gamers making the small investment necessary to try 3Dvision.
However, what both of these groups have in common (Oculus Rift users, Gsync adopters) is that they will be to some degree "power users". So I don't know how well they will be served by a 3D compatibility mode that is targeting the "casual market". I also share the fear that others have voiced, that the 3D compatibility mode may well hurt 3Dvision more than help it, by scaring people off (since, as we know, many people seem to be 3D sceptics already, so it won't take much).
At least the 3D vision profiles and 3D compatibility profiles are treated as separate on the driver page, which is good. Though a brief summary of what each is would probably be of use.
Sorry for the very long post again. I try to write clearly and considerately, supporting my arguments, but it means that the paragraphs sprout like mushrooms.
Steve, you're a paragon of patience. Thanks for consistently engaging in productive conversation, even when we sometimes have responded with frustration.
I think a story on 3dvisionlive sounds like a great idea. Though I'm compelled to point out a personal irony here. By your definition, I'm a power user....yet I've never visited 3dvisionlive, and I honestly don't even know what it is! I don't even know for sure how to take a 3d screenshot, as I've never tried it! A lot of the technical stuff people talk about on this forum is mumbo jumbo to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't think we're all as hardcore as you think.
I use the helixmod not because I inherently enjoy fooling around with dll files and hacks, but because it was one of the first things that came up on google once I got my 3d monitor and started figuring out how to use it. When a brand new '3d noob' googles "how can I get my favourite new game to work with 3d vision?" they're very likely to come across the helixmod very quickly. In my experience, it's mentioned in the same breath as 3dvision almost anywhere you go. And if those people are anything like me, they'll find and install the helixmod long before they see your story on 3dvisionlive.
You're obviously right about 3D market not being not being "hot" right now. I'd personally place it somewhere between frigid and icy. But I would almost bet my life savings that this will improve over the next year or two (if nvidia lets it). I'm not saying it'll become lava hot, but it seems almost certain to me that it will improve. For two main reasons: The Oculus rift, and Gsync.
The Oculus Rift. When it comes out, two things will happen. Firstly, a LOT of people will buy it. Secondly, a LOT of those people will be disappointed by it. That is to say, they'll fall in love with the Rift (and whether or not they realise it, much of its appeal is its stereoscopic 3D), and 2D gaming will lose its appeal, as it has for most of us.
But they'll be frustrated by the dearth of supported games for the Rift, because of the multitude of hurdles in the way (most Rift games will need to be designed from the ground up, and few big studios will be willing to do that for such a comparatively small market; games in VR will need to be first-person, so forget using the Rift with Assassins' Creed 5 or Mass Effect 4; fast-moving camera in VR gives many people motion sickness, so don't expect to see Dirt 4 or Crysis 4 support the Rift; Since movement will be slower than regular games, getting from A to B will take a tediously long time, so that probably mean no Elder Scrolls 6 either; Actually, once you narrow it down, there's not much left apart from Gone Home 2). All this is to say that the Rift will give a lot of new people a thirst for 3D, but the majority of games will not support VR......but if nvidia plays their cards right, those games *will* support the 'next best thing', which is 3Dvision.
Gsync. As I understand it, all Gsync monitors will be 3Dvision-capable. So as gsync monitors start becoming the norm (at least among enthusiast gamers), many people will suddenly find themselves much closer to trying 3D: the cost of a kit, rather than the cost of an entire new monitor. That's a dramatically different prospect, and will undoubtedly result in more gamers making the small investment necessary to try 3Dvision.
However, what both of these groups have in common (Oculus Rift users, Gsync adopters) is that they will be to some degree "power users". So I don't know how well they will be served by a 3D compatibility mode that is targeting the "casual market". I also share the fear that others have voiced, that the 3D compatibility mode may well hurt 3Dvision more than help it, by scaring people off (since, as we know, many people seem to be 3D sceptics already, so it won't take much).
At least the 3D vision profiles and 3D compatibility profiles are treated as separate on the driver page, which is good. Though a brief summary of what each is would probably be of use.
Sorry for the very long post again. I try to write clearly and considerately, supporting my arguments, but it means that the paragraphs sprout like mushrooms.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]In AC3 I found setting the character just beyond screen depth (not popping out) gave the most usable effect, but it makes objects look more like flat layers than 3d objects.[/quote]
I think hacking monitor size to get increased depth really helps with this.....just sayin :)
Pirateguybrush said:In AC3 I found setting the character just beyond screen depth (not popping out) gave the most usable effect, but it makes objects look more like flat layers than 3d objects.
I think hacking monitor size to get increased depth really helps with this.....just sayin :)
Well, I hate to be off topic too, but this thread is a bit of train wreck already. My apologies.
People keep saying that Comp-Mode will turn off new users to 3D, and be a net negative, but I disagree. Look at the number of people who said they actually liked Crysis 2 in 3D. Look at the people who are perfectly happy with low-separation 3D movies. I really think that our hardcore 3D user nature is describing this as a non-starter, not the actual experience for newbs.
How do you know the newbs are going to be turned off, instead of turned on? What if that is just a taste of the 3D, and then they find out about real-3D. Just like post-process fake-3D movies, and real ones? The hard-core people hate fake-3D movies, but the general public has so far been quite happy to keep seeing everything 3D, at least in movies.
Lastly, there are roughly 150 active members of this forum. We know that because of the Chiri fundraising experience, and the latest sign-the-petition experience. We are certainly the most active, enthusiastic, and vocal group of 3D enthusiasts.
I also postulated that there are roughly 500,000 active 3D users in the world. I think it goes without saying that this forum is not where they get their info- if in fact they do anything other than just buy stuff and play it.
How many people actually try to improve the out-of-box experience? I'd suggest, not that many. In which case CM can improve our chances, by at least not being totally broken. Let's see AC4- totally fubar in 3D. Watch Dogs- nearly certain to be DOA in 3D. Compatibility Mode- at least playable, and look at those cool effects. <Tells the friends> And word of mouth is positive instead of negative.
I can't see CM as a negative for the 3D world, it at least makes some things playable that have been completely busted, which might encourage people to at least try it.
Well, I hate to be off topic too, but this thread is a bit of train wreck already. My apologies.
People keep saying that Comp-Mode will turn off new users to 3D, and be a net negative, but I disagree. Look at the number of people who said they actually liked Crysis 2 in 3D. Look at the people who are perfectly happy with low-separation 3D movies. I really think that our hardcore 3D user nature is describing this as a non-starter, not the actual experience for newbs.
How do you know the newbs are going to be turned off, instead of turned on? What if that is just a taste of the 3D, and then they find out about real-3D. Just like post-process fake-3D movies, and real ones? The hard-core people hate fake-3D movies, but the general public has so far been quite happy to keep seeing everything 3D, at least in movies.
Lastly, there are roughly 150 active members of this forum. We know that because of the Chiri fundraising experience, and the latest sign-the-petition experience. We are certainly the most active, enthusiastic, and vocal group of 3D enthusiasts.
I also postulated that there are roughly 500,000 active 3D users in the world. I think it goes without saying that this forum is not where they get their info- if in fact they do anything other than just buy stuff and play it.
How many people actually try to improve the out-of-box experience? I'd suggest, not that many. In which case CM can improve our chances, by at least not being totally broken. Let's see AC4- totally fubar in 3D. Watch Dogs- nearly certain to be DOA in 3D. Compatibility Mode- at least playable, and look at those cool effects. <Tells the friends> And word of mouth is positive instead of negative.
I can't see CM as a negative for the 3D world, it at least makes some things playable that have been completely busted, which might encourage people to at least try it.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="SteveK@NVIDIA"]Please use this thread to report any issues experienced with the new drivers[/quote]
3d vision breaks sli support in opengl games. both gpus are maxed out but fps are identical to single gpu.
(e.g. quake 4, the chronicles of riddick dark athena)
SteveK@NVIDIA said:Please use this thread to report any issues experienced with the new drivers
3d vision breaks sli support in opengl games. both gpus are maxed out but fps are identical to single gpu.
(e.g. quake 4, the chronicles of riddick dark athena)
NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal), Intel Core i7-6900K, Win 10 Pro,
ASUS ROG Rampage V Edition 10, G.Skill RipJaws V 4x 8GB DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34,
ASUS ROG Swift PG258Q, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q, Acer Predator XB280HK, BenQ W710ST
I too would like to see CM as a toggle option for all games. I am using AC4 CM profile for pCars and its miles better than their current 3DVision support (ie, didn't bother yet). I can now run shadows, night lights.... Everything actually. I would also like to be able to set my monitor size without it getting constantly overwritten because without this option, the depth of CM is way too low. I'm one of those people who likes options. Not a fan of forum abuse to someone who at least had the guts to poke his head in here to gather feedback. Its embarrassing.
I too would like to see CM as a toggle option for all games. I am using AC4 CM profile for pCars and its miles better than their current 3DVision support (ie, didn't bother yet). I can now run shadows, night lights.... Everything actually. I would also like to be able to set my monitor size without it getting constantly overwritten because without this option, the depth of CM is way too low. I'm one of those people who likes options. Not a fan of forum abuse to someone who at least had the guts to poke his head in here to gather feedback. Its embarrassing.
[quote="bo3b"]............I can't see CM as a negative for the 3D world, it at least makes some things playable that have been completely busted, which might encourage people to at least try it. [/quote]I guess the reason I fear that Comp mode would turn people off, is that SOMETHING has to be responsible for the relatively widespread belief that 3D is a gimmick, or not worth the trouble, etc.
I'm sure most of you have, like me, learnt to start laying down towels to catch the saliva when you show your friends and family games in 3Dvision. The only reactions I've ever seen have been overwhelmingly positive ones.
Yet, the general consensus out in the mainstream seems to be that 3D is a gimmick. What 3D are these people looking at? Because it sure as hell ain't the 3Dvision that me and all my friends and family are seeing!. The common answers to that question seem to be: they've only seen low-depth movies; they've only seen nvidia's default low depth, they've never turned the convergence up and seen real popout. Well, that's exactly what people are going to see more of with Comp mode.
So, I *don't* know if Comp mode will turn people off. But *something* is turning people off, and I'm just trying to figure out what it is. The best answer I can come up with is that they simply haven't seen proper 3Dvision. I'm guessing that's what others think too. I also suspect that the full-3D of the Oculus Rift will make it harder for people to accept Comp mode.
But I never said I knew this for sure, and I certainly could be wrong.
I wonder if eqzitara has analytics that tell him how many people download various helixmods? I'm sure it's not anything like all 3Dvision users, but it's probably the majority of *active* 3Dvision users, since one can barely game without it. I found out about and was using the helixmod before I ever ventured into this forum. Like I said, it was one of the first things I came across once I started googling about 3Dvision.
I just tried these 4 google searches: "Devil may Cry 3D vision", "quantum conundrum 3dvision" "mass effect 3 3dvision" or "dishonored 3dvision". In all 4 cases, the Helixmod page is the #1 result for every single one. It'd be damn near impossible to not have heard of it by now if you in any way care about playing games in 3D.
bo3b said:............I can't see CM as a negative for the 3D world, it at least makes some things playable that have been completely busted, which might encourage people to at least try it.
I guess the reason I fear that Comp mode would turn people off, is that SOMETHING has to be responsible for the relatively widespread belief that 3D is a gimmick, or not worth the trouble, etc.
I'm sure most of you have, like me, learnt to start laying down towels to catch the saliva when you show your friends and family games in 3Dvision. The only reactions I've ever seen have been overwhelmingly positive ones.
Yet, the general consensus out in the mainstream seems to be that 3D is a gimmick. What 3D are these people looking at? Because it sure as hell ain't the 3Dvision that me and all my friends and family are seeing!. The common answers to that question seem to be: they've only seen low-depth movies; they've only seen nvidia's default low depth, they've never turned the convergence up and seen real popout. Well, that's exactly what people are going to see more of with Comp mode.
So, I *don't* know if Comp mode will turn people off. But *something* is turning people off, and I'm just trying to figure out what it is. The best answer I can come up with is that they simply haven't seen proper 3Dvision. I'm guessing that's what others think too. I also suspect that the full-3D of the Oculus Rift will make it harder for people to accept Comp mode.
But I never said I knew this for sure, and I certainly could be wrong.
I wonder if eqzitara has analytics that tell him how many people download various helixmods? I'm sure it's not anything like all 3Dvision users, but it's probably the majority of *active* 3Dvision users, since one can barely game without it. I found out about and was using the helixmod before I ever ventured into this forum. Like I said, it was one of the first things I came across once I started googling about 3Dvision.
I just tried these 4 google searches: "Devil may Cry 3D vision", "quantum conundrum 3dvision" "mass effect 3 3dvision" or "dishonored 3dvision". In all 4 cases, the Helixmod page is the #1 result for every single one. It'd be damn near impossible to not have heard of it by now if you in any way care about playing games in 3D.
Being as CM mode has only just become available recently, it can hardly be blamed for turning people off 3DVision. What it might do is make developers lazy and not bother. As far as I can tell, that horse already left the stable.
Being as CM mode has only just become available recently, it can hardly be blamed for turning people off 3DVision. What it might do is make developers lazy and not bother. As far as I can tell, that horse already left the stable.
@bo3b
Very good post and I totaly agree, CM 3 Mode is a hell of a lot better then not beying playable at all and the good thing is that it also gives much better performance due to the nature of fake 3d and that can only be described as good. I mean so more people can get into 3d :)
So much negativity over here, many come out like spoilt little brats. For fucks sake be glad that nVidia atleast try to do something and right now we got this great smart toogle on/off CM-3D so be glad for that insteed of bitching like spoilt little kids!
Now I know the shitstorm will come so lets bring it on and you can scream as much as you will like, nVidia owns us, we pay much much bla bla bla. Keep crying as much as you like.
Atleast try to understand what it's all about and be nice to SteveK@ nVidia for doing what he can!
Very good post and I totaly agree, CM 3 Mode is a hell of a lot better then not beying playable at all and the good thing is that it also gives much better performance due to the nature of fake 3d and that can only be described as good. I mean so more people can get into 3d :)
So much negativity over here, many come out like spoilt little brats. For fucks sake be glad that nVidia atleast try to do something and right now we got this great smart toogle on/off CM-3D so be glad for that insteed of bitching like spoilt little kids!
Now I know the shitstorm will come so lets bring it on and you can scream as much as you will like, nVidia owns us, we pay much much bla bla bla. Keep crying as much as you like.
Atleast try to understand what it's all about and be nice to SteveK@ nVidia for doing what he can!
[quote="Volnaiskra"]Yet, the general consensus out in the mainstream seems to be that 3D is a gimmick. What 3D are these people looking at? Because it sure as hell ain't the 3Dvision that me and all my friends and family are seeing!. The common answers to that question seem to be: they've only seen low-depth movies; they've only seen nvidia's default low depth, they've never turned the convergence up and seen real popout. Well, that's exactly what people are going to see more of with Comp mode.[/quote]I'm not sure we'll ever know for sure, and you can bet there were a lot of marketing and TV people who would want to know the same answer.
My 2c is that it's much more subtle than what people have actually seen. Something more along the lines of it being forced onto the average TV buyer, making them think they are paying extra for something they don't care about. Then, they are predisposed to not be generous. The TV makers were rabid, and I think that hurt.
My other 2c is that it became hip (hipster maybe) to be snobbish about 3D and how it was an inferior experience and only daft noobs would want to use something dumb like that, and geez here we are in the 3rd incarnation of the fad, and so on. Very much predetermined, without actually trying it. Some things like this take hold on the internet, like memes, and you just can't get away from it. Once the die was cast, it's hard for anyone to say anything positive. The hipsters also just Love the idea of VR and Oculus and it became the The Next Big Thing. There's not a gigantic difference between being able to look around, and higher quality 3D. But people are fundamentally irrational and they like the short cuts of being in the "in" club.
Volnaiskra said:Yet, the general consensus out in the mainstream seems to be that 3D is a gimmick. What 3D are these people looking at? Because it sure as hell ain't the 3Dvision that me and all my friends and family are seeing!. The common answers to that question seem to be: they've only seen low-depth movies; they've only seen nvidia's default low depth, they've never turned the convergence up and seen real popout. Well, that's exactly what people are going to see more of with Comp mode.
I'm not sure we'll ever know for sure, and you can bet there were a lot of marketing and TV people who would want to know the same answer.
My 2c is that it's much more subtle than what people have actually seen. Something more along the lines of it being forced onto the average TV buyer, making them think they are paying extra for something they don't care about. Then, they are predisposed to not be generous. The TV makers were rabid, and I think that hurt.
My other 2c is that it became hip (hipster maybe) to be snobbish about 3D and how it was an inferior experience and only daft noobs would want to use something dumb like that, and geez here we are in the 3rd incarnation of the fad, and so on. Very much predetermined, without actually trying it. Some things like this take hold on the internet, like memes, and you just can't get away from it. Once the die was cast, it's hard for anyone to say anything positive. The hipsters also just Love the idea of VR and Oculus and it became the The Next Big Thing. There's not a gigantic difference between being able to look around, and higher quality 3D. But people are fundamentally irrational and they like the short cuts of being in the "in" club.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I've never said by 'default', I've only said if it worked like 3D Vision Automatic(or TriDef's Power3D), as in when enagaged it works 'Automatically' like 3D Vision Automatic does, like TriDef's Power3D does. eg. Play any game, game looks like poop in 3D, turn on
fake 3DCM, game looks less like poop in less like 3D.My 'point', as far as CM goes, if there has to be one is there are many games "that either [do] not work with 3D Vision or [have] a low rating." that could 'benefit' from this tech that will never be considered by the team as something to make work with CM, if it just worked then someone could try it out, instead of hoping for support for it that may never come and it seems to me like it would be more 'productive' to get it just working, like TriDef's does, and then have the team focus on adding things that actually matter to the majority of actual 3D Vision users, not what *might* matter to some 'number' that bought a 3D Vision Laptop or Kit, saw Crysis 3 in fake 3D @ 15% Depth, went Meh! and never put the glasses on again ... I can tell you right now I'm not a huge fan of it but 'Power3D' matters more to someone like me than it does to the people that already wrote off 3D[Vision] ... I usually like to end on a 'light' note, but I can't really think of anything funny to say right about now, sorry. Lol? :)
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
Also I just replayed a little Hitman Absolution with the CM 3D & honestly its pretty damn good. Also I feel like the Converagence(F6) is working differently with the new driver. It actually seems to add a little more pop out instead of making it more flat in the first CM 3d release driver.
My only wish list item with the CM 3D would be a toggle option in any game whether its DX9 or 11. I mean essentially that would make every PC game CM 3d ready instead of just 20.
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It's adjustable but not to the same degree as standard 3D Vision mode
I think a story on 3dvisionlive sounds like a great idea. Though I'm compelled to point out a personal irony here. By your definition, I'm a power user....yet I've never visited 3dvisionlive, and I honestly don't even know what it is! I don't even know for sure how to take a 3d screenshot, as I've never tried it! A lot of the technical stuff people talk about on this forum is mumbo jumbo to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't think we're all as hardcore as you think.
I use the helixmod not because I inherently enjoy fooling around with dll files and hacks, but because it was one of the first things that came up on google once I got my 3d monitor and started figuring out how to use it. When a brand new '3d noob' googles "how can I get my favourite new game to work with 3d vision?" they're very likely to come across the helixmod very quickly. In my experience, it's mentioned in the same breath as 3dvision almost anywhere you go. And if those people are anything like me, they'll find and install the helixmod long before they see your story on 3dvisionlive.
You're obviously right about 3D market not being not being "hot" right now. I'd personally place it somewhere between frigid and icy. But I would almost bet my life savings that this will improve over the next year or two (if nvidia lets it). I'm not saying it'll become lava hot, but it seems almost certain to me that it will improve. For two main reasons: The Oculus rift, and Gsync.
The Oculus Rift. When it comes out, two things will happen. Firstly, a LOT of people will buy it. Secondly, a LOT of those people will be disappointed by it. That is to say, they'll fall in love with the Rift (and whether or not they realise it, much of its appeal is its stereoscopic 3D), and 2D gaming will lose its appeal, as it has for most of us.
But they'll be frustrated by the dearth of supported games for the Rift, because of the multitude of hurdles in the way (most Rift games will need to be designed from the ground up, and few big studios will be willing to do that for such a comparatively small market; games in VR will need to be first-person, so forget using the Rift with Assassins' Creed 5 or Mass Effect 4; fast-moving camera in VR gives many people motion sickness, so don't expect to see Dirt 4 or Crysis 4 support the Rift; Since movement will be slower than regular games, getting from A to B will take a tediously long time, so that probably mean no Elder Scrolls 6 either; Actually, once you narrow it down, there's not much left apart from Gone Home 2). All this is to say that the Rift will give a lot of new people a thirst for 3D, but the majority of games will not support VR......but if nvidia plays their cards right, those games *will* support the 'next best thing', which is 3Dvision.
Gsync. As I understand it, all Gsync monitors will be 3Dvision-capable. So as gsync monitors start becoming the norm (at least among enthusiast gamers), many people will suddenly find themselves much closer to trying 3D: the cost of a kit, rather than the cost of an entire new monitor. That's a dramatically different prospect, and will undoubtedly result in more gamers making the small investment necessary to try 3Dvision.
However, what both of these groups have in common (Oculus Rift users, Gsync adopters) is that they will be to some degree "power users". So I don't know how well they will be served by a 3D compatibility mode that is targeting the "casual market". I also share the fear that others have voiced, that the 3D compatibility mode may well hurt 3Dvision more than help it, by scaring people off (since, as we know, many people seem to be 3D sceptics already, so it won't take much).
At least the 3D vision profiles and 3D compatibility profiles are treated as separate on the driver page, which is good. Though a brief summary of what each is would probably be of use.
Sorry for the very long post again. I try to write clearly and considerately, supporting my arguments, but it means that the paragraphs sprout like mushrooms.
I think hacking monitor size to get increased depth really helps with this.....just sayin :)
People keep saying that Comp-Mode will turn off new users to 3D, and be a net negative, but I disagree. Look at the number of people who said they actually liked Crysis 2 in 3D. Look at the people who are perfectly happy with low-separation 3D movies. I really think that our hardcore 3D user nature is describing this as a non-starter, not the actual experience for newbs.
How do you know the newbs are going to be turned off, instead of turned on? What if that is just a taste of the 3D, and then they find out about real-3D. Just like post-process fake-3D movies, and real ones? The hard-core people hate fake-3D movies, but the general public has so far been quite happy to keep seeing everything 3D, at least in movies.
Lastly, there are roughly 150 active members of this forum. We know that because of the Chiri fundraising experience, and the latest sign-the-petition experience. We are certainly the most active, enthusiastic, and vocal group of 3D enthusiasts.
I also postulated that there are roughly 500,000 active 3D users in the world. I think it goes without saying that this forum is not where they get their info- if in fact they do anything other than just buy stuff and play it.
How many people actually try to improve the out-of-box experience? I'd suggest, not that many. In which case CM can improve our chances, by at least not being totally broken. Let's see AC4- totally fubar in 3D. Watch Dogs- nearly certain to be DOA in 3D. Compatibility Mode- at least playable, and look at those cool effects. <Tells the friends> And word of mouth is positive instead of negative.
I can't see CM as a negative for the 3D world, it at least makes some things playable that have been completely busted, which might encourage people to at least try it.
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3d vision breaks sli support in opengl games. both gpus are maxed out but fps are identical to single gpu.
(e.g. quake 4, the chronicles of riddick dark athena)
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I'm sure most of you have, like me, learnt to start laying down towels to catch the saliva when you show your friends and family games in 3Dvision. The only reactions I've ever seen have been overwhelmingly positive ones.
Yet, the general consensus out in the mainstream seems to be that 3D is a gimmick. What 3D are these people looking at? Because it sure as hell ain't the 3Dvision that me and all my friends and family are seeing!. The common answers to that question seem to be: they've only seen low-depth movies; they've only seen nvidia's default low depth, they've never turned the convergence up and seen real popout. Well, that's exactly what people are going to see more of with Comp mode.
So, I *don't* know if Comp mode will turn people off. But *something* is turning people off, and I'm just trying to figure out what it is. The best answer I can come up with is that they simply haven't seen proper 3Dvision. I'm guessing that's what others think too. I also suspect that the full-3D of the Oculus Rift will make it harder for people to accept Comp mode.
But I never said I knew this for sure, and I certainly could be wrong.
I wonder if eqzitara has analytics that tell him how many people download various helixmods? I'm sure it's not anything like all 3Dvision users, but it's probably the majority of *active* 3Dvision users, since one can barely game without it. I found out about and was using the helixmod before I ever ventured into this forum. Like I said, it was one of the first things I came across once I started googling about 3Dvision.
I just tried these 4 google searches: "Devil may Cry 3D vision", "quantum conundrum 3dvision" "mass effect 3 3dvision" or "dishonored 3dvision". In all 4 cases, the Helixmod page is the #1 result for every single one. It'd be damn near impossible to not have heard of it by now if you in any way care about playing games in 3D.
Very good post and I totaly agree, CM 3 Mode is a hell of a lot better then not beying playable at all and the good thing is that it also gives much better performance due to the nature of fake 3d and that can only be described as good. I mean so more people can get into 3d :)
So much negativity over here, many come out like spoilt little brats. For fucks sake be glad that nVidia atleast try to do something and right now we got this great smart toogle on/off CM-3D so be glad for that insteed of bitching like spoilt little kids!
Now I know the shitstorm will come so lets bring it on and you can scream as much as you will like, nVidia owns us, we pay much much bla bla bla. Keep crying as much as you like.
Atleast try to understand what it's all about and be nice to SteveK@ nVidia for doing what he can!
My 2c is that it's much more subtle than what people have actually seen. Something more along the lines of it being forced onto the average TV buyer, making them think they are paying extra for something they don't care about. Then, they are predisposed to not be generous. The TV makers were rabid, and I think that hurt.
My other 2c is that it became hip (hipster maybe) to be snobbish about 3D and how it was an inferior experience and only daft noobs would want to use something dumb like that, and geez here we are in the 3rd incarnation of the fad, and so on. Very much predetermined, without actually trying it. Some things like this take hold on the internet, like memes, and you just can't get away from it. Once the die was cast, it's hard for anyone to say anything positive. The hipsters also just Love the idea of VR and Oculus and it became the The Next Big Thing. There's not a gigantic difference between being able to look around, and higher quality 3D. But people are fundamentally irrational and they like the short cuts of being in the "in" club.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers