Buy a Samsung 3D Ready TV and play with 3D Vision Forget about 3DTV Play!!! Rollermod ru
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I can't believe I haven't tried rollermod before considering I read his topic about 3 or 4 months ago. I guess I was just lazy and conservative. But I’ve finally give it a try and I’m impressed with the results.
I've never liked 3DTV Play and was only playing games in my Alienware 120hz display cause I always thought that 3DTV Play never looked quite good compared to 3Dvision in my 120hz LCD display. Even at 1080p24hz games had edges that made the graphics look strange compared to my LCD 120hz display and it was almost impossible to play games at 24fps. 720p looked even worst due to scaling and the edges looked like crap, making games in 3D unplayable to me despite of 60fps possible to achieve at that lower resolution. Roller mentioned that FP looked weird due to video processing mode, mandatory for FP, and I've never really thought that what he said was actually very noticeable, it really is.
So, I installed Rollermod to be able to use 3DVision (Frame sequential or Checkerboard) instead of 3DTV Play (Frame Packing). The installation is easy and after that I've just reboot my PC and there was no more 3DTV Play logo in Nvidia Control Panel, just a box with 3 options to choose, Generic CRT monitor, 3D Vision discover and DLP display. The 1st stands for 3DVision frame sequential 1080p60hz = 30hz per eye/30fps and the 3rd option is checkerboard, 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye, but also half resolution per eye. My Samsung was now a HDMI 1.3 TV.
Well, If I was in video pixel processing mode I was not going be able to select checkerboard and frame sequential, only side-by-side or under-over. That's why you have to set Samsung input label to DVI/PC to be able to unblock all 7 3D layouts including checkerboard and frame sequential. Those options don’t appear in video mode, only PC mode.
I’ve played Just Cause 2 in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP in the NCP. Once the game started I had to press Samsung 3D key and choose to 6th 3D layout to the right which is checkerboard. The sides were swapped I and had to apply picture correction twice to correct the 3D effect. I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
After I've made these adjustments to picture quality I was definatelly blown away by checkerboard 3D quality in 1080p60hz. I've never seen such good graphics for a 3D game in my TV, and Just Cause 2 looked just like I was playing with 3Dvision (full resolution per eye) in my LCD 120hz display. No more edges, no more color over saturated like crap video mode.
I could not believe I was playing Just Cause at 1080p native resolution, perfect shining 3D graphics at 60fps, amazing 3D quality. I swear checkerboard rules and it looks way better than 3DTV Play frame packed 1080p24hz, forget about 720p, I am comparing CB 1080p60hz vs FP 1080p24hz, not talking about hertz, just 3D overall quality. Roller was right all this time, the problem with FP is video mode, making PC games look like crap in 3D compared to PC mode.
It’s so obvious the difference that you must try out Rollermod if you own a Samsung 3DTV to see for yourself. iIf you own Panasonic, Sony or LG than I am sorry for you, you don't know what you missing. Unfortunately you can’t use 3Dvision with your TV , just 3DTV Play.
Checkerboard is amazing but there is an annoying red message saying that my TV needs the Vesa cable connected to the IR receiver and there's just no way to get rid of this message cause my TV doesn't have a 3D sync input that connects to 3Dvision IR receiver. Rollermod fools Nvidia drivers to think my HDMI 1.4 TV is a HDMI 1.3, so it will also think I need this cable connected, since 3D DLP and 2008 Samsung Plasmas had this input.
Roller figured out a way to suppress this red message, a Hardware hack that eliminates this red message after is connected to 3D Vision IR emitter 3D sync input and I think it's worth 100% after I've how CB 3D gaming looks like. I'll definatelly PM him and see how he can send me this HW since I don't have his skills for building one myself.
I've also tried Just Cause 2 in Frame sequential 3Dvision, the same 3D mode we use for playing 3D games in a 120hz LCD display. I've just selected Generic CRT monitor instead of DLP and applied this setting in NCP.
Than all I have to do was press Samsung remote 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right for frame sequential. When I though Rollermod could not get any better, it does. Frame sequential is awesome and beats by far 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. You have full resolution per eye as well but 30fps + PC mode instead of 24fps and video mode.
I can honestly say that I really enjoyed playing games in 1080p30hz, since frame sequential works perfectly, sometimes there’s lost of sync, but this due to Samsung glasses that are not very good, this also happen sometimes when playing 3D games with 3DTV Play.
I was blown away with FS 3D overall quality and most games are very playable at 30fps, much smoother than lousy 24fps. Even consoles run their games at 30fps average, so it's not bad at all, it might not be suitable for shooting games but I found Just Cause 2 to be very playable at 30fps, unlike FP 24fps. But believe the big deal of this experiment was not really about hertz and FPS. It was about video pixel processing mode VS PC mode, and Roller was right, video mode sucks for PC gaming, 2D and 3D, that's why 3DTV Play frame packed is not up to 3Dvision (checkerboard and frame sequential).
When you play games in FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye, the IR emitter green light shines stronger like If I was using my Alienware 120hz display. Very cool, this doesn't happen with frame packed 3DTV Play, it’s really like using 3Dvision + Plasma TV.
In terms of ghosting I didn't see big differences between Frame packed and frame sequential. AlI’m aware now that video mode sucks for 3D gaming and that's why 3DTV Play is a no go for me from now on. I found very hard to notice differences between CB and FS in 3D overall quality. I know FS is full resolution per eye like FP, but Checkerboard looked just as good and it’s only half resolution per eye.
I've also tried Batman AA, Left 4 Dead 2 and I was impressed how those games looked in CB 1080p60hz, specially Batman. After adjusting convergence it just got better. I was about to play Batman all night like that, just the best looking game I've tried tonight. I could not believe it was half resolution per eye, it looked far better than FP 1080p24hz and I’ve played this game in 1080p24hz FP, I know what I’m saying. Off course 60fps is much smoother, but graphics looked perfect in CB and there were no egdes unlike FP, just perfect like if I was playing batman in my 120hz display.
I also tried FS 1080p60hz and couldn't tell the difference between CB and FS in overall 3D quality, only difference was that FS = 30fps and CB = 60fps. To me CB and FS looked very similar in those 3 games. I still have the impression that CB has a bit more ghosting than FS. This varies from game to game. Batman and Just Cause 2 looked almost perfect in CB and FS, Left 4 Dead 2 had some ghosting, but that also happens with 3DTV Play and my 120hz LCD display.
The big deal is really the way PC mode process pixels for PC gaming, video mode just ruins the experience, video mode is suitable for TV and bluray3D, console gaming but most definatelly not for PC gaming, 2D and 3D. That's why from now on I'm never going back to 3DTV Play, never. I love 3Dvision and now I can use it in my 120hz LCD display and also 3D Samsung C8000 Plasma, no need at all for 3DTV Play. I can play games with perfect eye candy 3D quality in 1920x1080p60hz or 30hz, I have 2 very suitable options. No need to be stuck with 1080p24hz and ugly scaled 720p 3D gaming.
Nvidia, you must give us CB, it really rules. I'm 100% sure that if frame packing also worked in PC mode it would look much better. But that’s not your fault, it’s a pity that frame packing is a mandatory mode and only accepts video mode.
No need for it anyway, I can play games in 3D in 1080p full resolution per eye at 30fps or I can choose half resolution per eye at 60fps.
If you have 3D Ready Samsung Plasma or LED TV don't waste time, give rollermod a try and you won't be sorry at all. Forget about 3DTV Play you don't need that. You have 3Dvision which is far superior. See to believe!!!!!!
Roller, Now I understand crystal clear why you say Samsung are the only suitable 3D ready TV for gaming. I will never play 3D games in video mode again, never more. I also realized you can't use PC mode for TV broadcast and cable, it stays in PC mode, but it's actually video mode since you can only select three 3D layouts, but once I select my PC as primary display all 7 3D layouts show again.
I have tried GTA IV Episodes but it does not work for FS and CB, for some reason GTA IV doesn't work in PC mode, only video mode. You can't select CB and FS for this game. Weird????
Unfortunately I'll need 3DTV Play for bluray3d as it only works in frame packing for full resolution per eye. I will try your restore.inf and see if it works. I don't need to reboot, just log off, right?
I’ve created a restore point just in case though.
Thanks for letting us know about your experiments, you're a true genius. You really made me want to use my Samsung TV for 3D gaming. Everything you said I saw with my own eyes today. I've played those 3 games for hours in FS and CB and I'm convinced, there's just no going back to 3DTV Play FP. After I set Samsung’s dynamic contrast to high the opaque color problem for PC mode was gone, now colors look very good, even better than video mode.
PM me, I want to talk to you about your hardware that suppresses the red annoying message in CB mode. FS is the best mode as it’s full resolution per eye, but I agree that for some games 30fps will not be enough, that's why I need CB as it looks just as good, but I need to get rid of this annoying red message. Do you also find difficult to see differences between CB and FS? They look almost identical to me, playing 3D games in 60fps is a reality thanks to you.
There's a very big difference between playing games at 30fps compared to 24fps. I don't think Nvidia folks are aware of what those Samsung TV's can do??? But you must get credit for all that, without your rollermod we would be stuck with 3DTV play ugly video mode and 24fps. I don't know how some folks say that FP 720p60hz looks any good or better than CB. I'm sure they have never seen what CB (PC mode 1080p60hz). You must see to believe. I had no idea it would be such a huge difference. Big deal of difference.
I hope Nvidia hires you someday...................... I’ll let some friends of mine that are 3Dvision users and were also upset about the HDMI 1.4 limitations aware that there is a solution. Just get a Samsung 3D ready TV and use your magic mod.
I can't believe I haven't tried rollermod before considering I read his topic about 3 or 4 months ago. I guess I was just lazy and conservative. But I’ve finally give it a try and I’m impressed with the results.
I've never liked 3DTV Play and was only playing games in my Alienware 120hz display cause I always thought that 3DTV Play never looked quite good compared to 3Dvision in my 120hz LCD display. Even at 1080p24hz games had edges that made the graphics look strange compared to my LCD 120hz display and it was almost impossible to play games at 24fps. 720p looked even worst due to scaling and the edges looked like crap, making games in 3D unplayable to me despite of 60fps possible to achieve at that lower resolution. Roller mentioned that FP looked weird due to video processing mode, mandatory for FP, and I've never really thought that what he said was actually very noticeable, it really is.
So, I installed Rollermod to be able to use 3DVision (Frame sequential or Checkerboard) instead of 3DTV Play (Frame Packing). The installation is easy and after that I've just reboot my PC and there was no more 3DTV Play logo in Nvidia Control Panel, just a box with 3 options to choose, Generic CRT monitor, 3D Vision discover and DLP display. The 1st stands for 3DVision frame sequential 1080p60hz = 30hz per eye/30fps and the 3rd option is checkerboard, 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye, but also half resolution per eye. My Samsung was now a HDMI 1.3 TV.
Well, If I was in video pixel processing mode I was not going be able to select checkerboard and frame sequential, only side-by-side or under-over. That's why you have to set Samsung input label to DVI/PC to be able to unblock all 7 3D layouts including checkerboard and frame sequential. Those options don’t appear in video mode, only PC mode.
I’ve played Just Cause 2 in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP in the NCP. Once the game started I had to press Samsung 3D key and choose to 6th 3D layout to the right which is checkerboard. The sides were swapped I and had to apply picture correction twice to correct the 3D effect. I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
After I've made these adjustments to picture quality I was definatelly blown away by checkerboard 3D quality in 1080p60hz. I've never seen such good graphics for a 3D game in my TV, and Just Cause 2 looked just like I was playing with 3Dvision (full resolution per eye) in my LCD 120hz display. No more edges, no more color over saturated like crap video mode.
I could not believe I was playing Just Cause at 1080p native resolution, perfect shining 3D graphics at 60fps, amazing 3D quality. I swear checkerboard rules and it looks way better than 3DTV Play frame packed 1080p24hz, forget about 720p, I am comparing CB 1080p60hz vs FP 1080p24hz, not talking about hertz, just 3D overall quality. Roller was right all this time, the problem with FP is video mode, making PC games look like crap in 3D compared to PC mode.
It’s so obvious the difference that you must try out Rollermod if you own a Samsung 3DTV to see for yourself. iIf you own Panasonic, Sony or LG than I am sorry for you, you don't know what you missing. Unfortunately you can’t use 3Dvision with your TV , just 3DTV Play.
Checkerboard is amazing but there is an annoying red message saying that my TV needs the Vesa cable connected to the IR receiver and there's just no way to get rid of this message cause my TV doesn't have a 3D sync input that connects to 3Dvision IR receiver. Rollermod fools Nvidia drivers to think my HDMI 1.4 TV is a HDMI 1.3, so it will also think I need this cable connected, since 3D DLP and 2008 Samsung Plasmas had this input.
Roller figured out a way to suppress this red message, a Hardware hack that eliminates this red message after is connected to 3D Vision IR emitter 3D sync input and I think it's worth 100% after I've how CB 3D gaming looks like. I'll definatelly PM him and see how he can send me this HW since I don't have his skills for building one myself.
I've also tried Just Cause 2 in Frame sequential 3Dvision, the same 3D mode we use for playing 3D games in a 120hz LCD display. I've just selected Generic CRT monitor instead of DLP and applied this setting in NCP.
Than all I have to do was press Samsung remote 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right for frame sequential. When I though Rollermod could not get any better, it does. Frame sequential is awesome and beats by far 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. You have full resolution per eye as well but 30fps + PC mode instead of 24fps and video mode.
I can honestly say that I really enjoyed playing games in 1080p30hz, since frame sequential works perfectly, sometimes there’s lost of sync, but this due to Samsung glasses that are not very good, this also happen sometimes when playing 3D games with 3DTV Play.
I was blown away with FS 3D overall quality and most games are very playable at 30fps, much smoother than lousy 24fps. Even consoles run their games at 30fps average, so it's not bad at all, it might not be suitable for shooting games but I found Just Cause 2 to be very playable at 30fps, unlike FP 24fps. But believe the big deal of this experiment was not really about hertz and FPS. It was about video pixel processing mode VS PC mode, and Roller was right, video mode sucks for PC gaming, 2D and 3D, that's why 3DTV Play frame packed is not up to 3Dvision (checkerboard and frame sequential).
When you play games in FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye, the IR emitter green light shines stronger like If I was using my Alienware 120hz display. Very cool, this doesn't happen with frame packed 3DTV Play, it’s really like using 3Dvision + Plasma TV.
In terms of ghosting I didn't see big differences between Frame packed and frame sequential. AlI’m aware now that video mode sucks for 3D gaming and that's why 3DTV Play is a no go for me from now on. I found very hard to notice differences between CB and FS in 3D overall quality. I know FS is full resolution per eye like FP, but Checkerboard looked just as good and it’s only half resolution per eye.
I've also tried Batman AA, Left 4 Dead 2 and I was impressed how those games looked in CB 1080p60hz, specially Batman. After adjusting convergence it just got better. I was about to play Batman all night like that, just the best looking game I've tried tonight. I could not believe it was half resolution per eye, it looked far better than FP 1080p24hz and I’ve played this game in 1080p24hz FP, I know what I’m saying. Off course 60fps is much smoother, but graphics looked perfect in CB and there were no egdes unlike FP, just perfect like if I was playing batman in my 120hz display.
I also tried FS 1080p60hz and couldn't tell the difference between CB and FS in overall 3D quality, only difference was that FS = 30fps and CB = 60fps. To me CB and FS looked very similar in those 3 games. I still have the impression that CB has a bit more ghosting than FS. This varies from game to game. Batman and Just Cause 2 looked almost perfect in CB and FS, Left 4 Dead 2 had some ghosting, but that also happens with 3DTV Play and my 120hz LCD display.
The big deal is really the way PC mode process pixels for PC gaming, video mode just ruins the experience, video mode is suitable for TV and bluray3D, console gaming but most definatelly not for PC gaming, 2D and 3D. That's why from now on I'm never going back to 3DTV Play, never. I love 3Dvision and now I can use it in my 120hz LCD display and also 3D Samsung C8000 Plasma, no need at all for 3DTV Play. I can play games with perfect eye candy 3D quality in 1920x1080p60hz or 30hz, I have 2 very suitable options. No need to be stuck with 1080p24hz and ugly scaled 720p 3D gaming.
Nvidia, you must give us CB, it really rules. I'm 100% sure that if frame packing also worked in PC mode it would look much better. But that’s not your fault, it’s a pity that frame packing is a mandatory mode and only accepts video mode.
No need for it anyway, I can play games in 3D in 1080p full resolution per eye at 30fps or I can choose half resolution per eye at 60fps.
If you have 3D Ready Samsung Plasma or LED TV don't waste time, give rollermod a try and you won't be sorry at all. Forget about 3DTV Play you don't need that. You have 3Dvision which is far superior. See to believe!!!!!!
Roller, Now I understand crystal clear why you say Samsung are the only suitable 3D ready TV for gaming. I will never play 3D games in video mode again, never more. I also realized you can't use PC mode for TV broadcast and cable, it stays in PC mode, but it's actually video mode since you can only select three 3D layouts, but once I select my PC as primary display all 7 3D layouts show again.
I have tried GTA IV Episodes but it does not work for FS and CB, for some reason GTA IV doesn't work in PC mode, only video mode. You can't select CB and FS for this game. Weird????
Unfortunately I'll need 3DTV Play for bluray3d as it only works in frame packing for full resolution per eye. I will try your restore.inf and see if it works. I don't need to reboot, just log off, right?
I’ve created a restore point just in case though.
Thanks for letting us know about your experiments, you're a true genius. You really made me want to use my Samsung TV for 3D gaming. Everything you said I saw with my own eyes today. I've played those 3 games for hours in FS and CB and I'm convinced, there's just no going back to 3DTV Play FP. After I set Samsung’s dynamic contrast to high the opaque color problem for PC mode was gone, now colors look very good, even better than video mode.
PM me, I want to talk to you about your hardware that suppresses the red annoying message in CB mode. FS is the best mode as it’s full resolution per eye, but I agree that for some games 30fps will not be enough, that's why I need CB as it looks just as good, but I need to get rid of this annoying red message. Do you also find difficult to see differences between CB and FS? They look almost identical to me, playing 3D games in 60fps is a reality thanks to you.
There's a very big difference between playing games at 30fps compared to 24fps. I don't think Nvidia folks are aware of what those Samsung TV's can do??? But you must get credit for all that, without your rollermod we would be stuck with 3DTV play ugly video mode and 24fps. I don't know how some folks say that FP 720p60hz looks any good or better than CB. I'm sure they have never seen what CB (PC mode 1080p60hz). You must see to believe. I had no idea it would be such a huge difference. Big deal of difference.
I hope Nvidia hires you someday...................... I’ll let some friends of mine that are 3Dvision users and were also upset about the HDMI 1.4 limitations aware that there is a solution. Just get a Samsung 3D ready TV and use your magic mod.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
HHow much g hosting is there on your Samsung when playing 3d ready games? How does it impair to your lcd?
Btw i agree about hdmi 1.4 limitations being disappointing.
It really depend on the game, not realy about LCD vs Plasma... Plasma screen is much better cause it has deeper blacks, but in terms of ghosting they're not so different. If you watch bluray3D and compare my Plasma TV and 120hz display, then the LCD display will have awfully more ghosting, but 3D gaming is different, both have the same amount of ghosting I think.
It really depend on the game, not realy about LCD vs Plasma... Plasma screen is much better cause it has deeper blacks, but in terms of ghosting they're not so different. If you watch bluray3D and compare my Plasma TV and 120hz display, then the LCD display will have awfully more ghosting, but 3D gaming is different, both have the same amount of ghosting I think.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
I've just found out that I won't need 3DTV Play ever again. I thought I would need to switch between Rollermod (3DVision) and 3DTV Play cause of bluray3D. I thought that with 3DVision I would only be able to watch bluray3D in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP TV in PDVD10 settings, therefore CB is only half resolution per eye so it's worse than FP 1080p24hz provided by 3DTV Play for bluray3D playback. So, I've set CRT generic instead of DLP 3D in the Nvidia control panel box for 3D options. Then I went through PDVD10 settings and selected 3D Vision 120hz display instead of HDMI 1.4 enabled TV. So I picked a 3DBD title and played with PDVD10 to see how this would work out. The movie started and all I had to do was press Samsung remote controller 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right which is frame sequential. I had to apply picture correction, but just once though. Remember that you need to set Samsung TV's input label to DVI/PC to switch to PC mode, only this mode accepts Checkerboard and Frame sequential.
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
I've just found out that I won't need 3DTV Play ever again. I thought I would need to switch between Rollermod (3DVision) and 3DTV Play cause of bluray3D. I thought that with 3DVision I would only be able to watch bluray3D in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP TV in PDVD10 settings, therefore CB is only half resolution per eye so it's worse than FP 1080p24hz provided by 3DTV Play for bluray3D playback. So, I've set CRT generic instead of DLP 3D in the Nvidia control panel box for 3D options. Then I went through PDVD10 settings and selected 3D Vision 120hz display instead of HDMI 1.4 enabled TV. So I picked a 3DBD title and played with PDVD10 to see how this would work out. The movie started and all I had to do was press Samsung remote controller 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right which is frame sequential. I had to apply picture correction, but just once though. Remember that you need to set Samsung TV's input label to DVI/PC to switch to PC mode, only this mode accepts Checkerboard and Frame sequential.
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='francomg' date='22 May 2011 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1306100488' post='1241025']
I've just found out that I won't need 3DTV Play ever again. I thought I would need to switch between Rollermod (3DVision) and 3DTV Play cause of bluray3D. I thought that with 3DVision I would only be able to watch bluray3D in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP TV in PDVD10 settings, therefore CB is only half resolution per eye so it's worse than FP 1080p24hz provided by 3DTV Play for bluray3D playback. So, I've set CRT generic instead of DLP 3D in the Nvidia control panel box for 3D options. Then I went through PDVD10 settings and selected 3D Vision 120hz display instead of HDMI 1.4 enabled TV. So I picked a 3DBD title and played with PDVD10 to see how this would work out. The movie started and all I had to do was press Samsung remote controller 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right which is frame sequential. I had to apply picture correction, but just once though. Remember that you need to set Samsung TV's input label to DVI/PC to switch to PC mode, only this mode accepts Checkerboard and Frame sequential.
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
[/quote]
[quote name='francomg' date='22 May 2011 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1306100488' post='1241025']
I've just found out that I won't need 3DTV Play ever again. I thought I would need to switch between Rollermod (3DVision) and 3DTV Play cause of bluray3D. I thought that with 3DVision I would only be able to watch bluray3D in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP TV in PDVD10 settings, therefore CB is only half resolution per eye so it's worse than FP 1080p24hz provided by 3DTV Play for bluray3D playback. So, I've set CRT generic instead of DLP 3D in the Nvidia control panel box for 3D options. Then I went through PDVD10 settings and selected 3D Vision 120hz display instead of HDMI 1.4 enabled TV. So I picked a 3DBD title and played with PDVD10 to see how this would work out. The movie started and all I had to do was press Samsung remote controller 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right which is frame sequential. I had to apply picture correction, but just once though. Remember that you need to set Samsung TV's input label to DVI/PC to switch to PC mode, only this mode accepts Checkerboard and Frame sequential.
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
Francomg, i hope you have a camera, or can borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference. I just saw a photo of a screen yesterday or the day before of a screen, which looked perfect, which annoyed the hell out of me when thinking back to roller's comment saying camera couldn't possible show the difference.
Francomg, i hope you have a camera, or can borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference. I just saw a photo of a screen yesterday or the day before of a screen, which looked perfect, which annoyed the hell out of me when thinking back to roller's comment saying camera couldn't possible show the difference.
[quote name='Libertine' date='22 May 2011 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1306109417' post='1241064']
Francomg, i hope you have a camera, or can borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference. I just saw a photo of a screen yesterday or the day before of a screen, which looked perfect, which annoyed the hell out of me when thinking back to roller's comment saying camera couldn't possible show the difference.
[/quote]
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
[quote name='Libertine' date='22 May 2011 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1306109417' post='1241064']
Francomg, i hope you have a camera, or can borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference. I just saw a photo of a screen yesterday or the day before of a screen, which looked perfect, which annoyed the hell out of me when thinking back to roller's comment saying camera couldn't possible show the difference.
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
[quote name='roller11' date='22 May 2011 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1306111398' post='1241068']
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
[/quote]
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a [b][i]difference[/i][/b] Roller. Will you see the exact same image? No. Will you see the difference? YES.
I don't know about Samsungs, but on my TV, all my hundreds of desktop photos that i've browsed many times since i got this TV still look very good compared to my 2560x1600 monitor.
[quote name='roller11' date='22 May 2011 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1306111398' post='1241068']
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a difference Roller. Will you see the exact same image? No. Will you see the difference? YES.
I don't know about Samsungs, but on my TV, all my hundreds of desktop photos that i've browsed many times since i got this TV still look very good compared to my 2560x1600 monitor.
For example... A photo of a section of a Sharp TV screen, which reminds me, taking a photo of a smaller area of the screen would help show the difference in detail....
For example... A photo of a section of a Sharp TV screen, which reminds me, taking a photo of a smaller area of the screen would help show the difference in detail....
[quote name='Libertine' date='22 May 2011 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1306117588' post='1241089']
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a [b][i]difference[/i][/b] Roller. [/quote]
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
[quote name='Libertine' date='22 May 2011 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1306117588' post='1241089']
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a difference Roller.
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
[quote name='roller11' date='22 May 2011 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1306123251' post='1241111']
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
[/quote]
Roller, you might misunderstand my intentions. I mean you take 2 photos per comparison shot, not one. I don't mean you just take one photo of the screen while in CB mode and post in on the web. I mean to take 2 or more shots of the same thing, one of CB, one of the other modes in question, preferably also one in 2D mode to be used as a reference. It will show a difference on any monitor ever made if it can be seen by your human eye. THEN, we, the forum goers, will use our powers of deduction and drawn some conclusions as to proportional differences between the modes.
I [size="3"][b]know[/b][/size] it will work [size="4"]because i've already done it[/size] [size="5"]with a cheap point and click cam (Kodak z158515) [/size][size="7"][size="6"]and it clearly showed differences between 1080p and 720p![/size] /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
[quote name='roller11' date='22 May 2011 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1306123251' post='1241111']
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
Roller, you might misunderstand my intentions. I mean you take 2 photos per comparison shot, not one. I don't mean you just take one photo of the screen while in CB mode and post in on the web. I mean to take 2 or more shots of the same thing, one of CB, one of the other modes in question, preferably also one in 2D mode to be used as a reference. It will show a difference on any monitor ever made if it can be seen by your human eye. THEN, we, the forum goers, will use our powers of deduction and drawn some conclusions as to proportional differences between the modes.
I know it will work because i've already done it with a cheap point and click cam (Kodak z158515) and it clearly showed differences between 1080p and 720p! /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
I understand, but that's not what you were asking in your post #6, you said:
"borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference"
Francomg's "difference" was the difference between Video mode and PC mode both at 1080P. Not the difference between 1080P and 720P. So my question stands: why would you ask Francomg to post a 720P vs 1080P comparison? You can take the two same pics on your system and post them.
I understand, but that's not what you were asking in your post #6, you said:
"borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference"
Francomg's "difference" was the difference between Video mode and PC mode both at 1080P. Not the difference between 1080P and 720P. So my question stands: why would you ask Francomg to post a 720P vs 1080P comparison? You can take the two same pics on your system and post them.
I think you have to see it with your own eyes, no camera will show the difference. The pictures must be taken with Fraps to work in 3D, no 2D camera will show the difference if it's a 3D picture.
Even if I use fraps and take the pics in 1080p60hz CB and then FP 1080p24h, it won't matter if you see in your TV in video mode. I mean if you use video mode to view the pics you won't see the difference, you'll have to select PC mode instead, and I'm not sure Panasonic have PC mode, but I think Panasonic 3D plasma should have cause my Panasonic 2D plasma does. So, it won't really matter.
Libertine, why don't you use Fraps and take a pic of some 3D game you have in FP 1080p24hz, after you've done that, just set your Panasonic TV to PC mode and view the picture using 3dvision picture viewer. Problem is that you can't use 3DTV Play cause cause it will only work in video mode, so you have to use SBS or Under-over, but then the pic was taken in FP mode, so I don't think it will work. It would be nice to to see how FP 1080p24hz will look like in PC mode, this would give you an idea of how 3D gaming looks in PC mode in your TV. I think you see where I'm getting with this. The big deal difference is not between FP, FS or CB, it's video mode vs PC mode.
I've tried for hours both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye (half resolution) and also FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye (full resolution) and I can't tell the difference, it's not really noticeable, you have to really be picky to tell a difference. On the other hand I find really easy to see a big quality difference between 3DTV Play's FP 1080p24hz vs 3Dvision's CB and FS and that's due to video mode.
Believe me dude, I won't lie that I thought Roller was full of BS when he said something about video mode and PC mode, cause all we had in our minds was the 24fps limitation, never really the 3D overall quality and I always thought that 3D games looked much better in my 120hz display compared to 3DTV Play. I'm not talking about 720p, I don't use this lower resolution for nothing, so I'm always talking about 1080p. Now, after I used rollermod and was able to play games in FS and CB I definatelly see no difference to 3D games using my TV and 120hz display, the 3D quality is awesome in both. But the TV has a much bigger screen and deeper blacks, so it's better now. I woudn't say this about 3DTV Pla cause FP only works in video mode, so it creates ugly edges around graphics unlike PC mode for 3D gaming.
Now, besides the advantages I have by using CB and FS in PC mode, I can also play games in 1080p60hz for both CB and FS, but CB is 60fps per eye and FS is 30fps per eye, so both modes are far superior compared to 1080p24hz and 720p60hz.
FS 1080p60hz is also full resolution per eye, same mode used my 3dvision + 120hz display, but it only gives 30fps, cause the TV works in 60hz, not 120hz like a LCD display, but it's the mandatory mode for 3Dvision displays. So, if you compare FP 1080p24hz vs FS 1080p60hz, FS is far superior cause it's 60hz vs 24hz so gameplay is smoother and 24fps vs 30fps, no more laggy and sluggish gameplay and 30fps is used for most console games, so it's much more playable than 24fps. 3DTV Play's Frame Packing doesn't stand a chance for 3D gaming compared to 3Dvision's checkerboard and frame sequential.
Nvidia only tested Panasonic 3D TVs, so they never knew Samsung's 3D TVs would support CB and also FS. That's why they created 3DTV Play. But if you own a Samsung instead, you dont need 3DTV Play, cause we can use and adapt our Samsung 3D TVs to work with a much better 3D gaming solution known as 3D Vision.
And you also can choose CB that looks almost the same as FS, but it's 60fps per eye. And believe me, I've played enough with 3DTV Play to know what I'm saying. CB 1080p60hz in PC mode looks better than FP 1080p24hz cause it works in PC mode instad of video mode like and besides FP is full resolution per eye really doesn't make such a difference compared t half resolution per eye, it's really video vs PC mode that does. So, saying that FP 720p60hz looks better than CB 1080p60hz is ridiculous, whoever says that has never tried CB before, You must see to believe. Don't try IZ3D and Tridef CB, try Nvidia CB and FS. Much more games compatible.
You have to try this out and see for yourself, but you must own a 3D Ready Samsung Plasma/LED TV, cause Sony and Panasonic don't support 3Dvision's Checkerboard and Frame Sequential.
I think you have to see it with your own eyes, no camera will show the difference. The pictures must be taken with Fraps to work in 3D, no 2D camera will show the difference if it's a 3D picture.
Even if I use fraps and take the pics in 1080p60hz CB and then FP 1080p24h, it won't matter if you see in your TV in video mode. I mean if you use video mode to view the pics you won't see the difference, you'll have to select PC mode instead, and I'm not sure Panasonic have PC mode, but I think Panasonic 3D plasma should have cause my Panasonic 2D plasma does. So, it won't really matter.
Libertine, why don't you use Fraps and take a pic of some 3D game you have in FP 1080p24hz, after you've done that, just set your Panasonic TV to PC mode and view the picture using 3dvision picture viewer. Problem is that you can't use 3DTV Play cause cause it will only work in video mode, so you have to use SBS or Under-over, but then the pic was taken in FP mode, so I don't think it will work. It would be nice to to see how FP 1080p24hz will look like in PC mode, this would give you an idea of how 3D gaming looks in PC mode in your TV. I think you see where I'm getting with this. The big deal difference is not between FP, FS or CB, it's video mode vs PC mode.
I've tried for hours both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye (half resolution) and also FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye (full resolution) and I can't tell the difference, it's not really noticeable, you have to really be picky to tell a difference. On the other hand I find really easy to see a big quality difference between 3DTV Play's FP 1080p24hz vs 3Dvision's CB and FS and that's due to video mode.
Believe me dude, I won't lie that I thought Roller was full of BS when he said something about video mode and PC mode, cause all we had in our minds was the 24fps limitation, never really the 3D overall quality and I always thought that 3D games looked much better in my 120hz display compared to 3DTV Play. I'm not talking about 720p, I don't use this lower resolution for nothing, so I'm always talking about 1080p. Now, after I used rollermod and was able to play games in FS and CB I definatelly see no difference to 3D games using my TV and 120hz display, the 3D quality is awesome in both. But the TV has a much bigger screen and deeper blacks, so it's better now. I woudn't say this about 3DTV Pla cause FP only works in video mode, so it creates ugly edges around graphics unlike PC mode for 3D gaming.
Now, besides the advantages I have by using CB and FS in PC mode, I can also play games in 1080p60hz for both CB and FS, but CB is 60fps per eye and FS is 30fps per eye, so both modes are far superior compared to 1080p24hz and 720p60hz.
FS 1080p60hz is also full resolution per eye, same mode used my 3dvision + 120hz display, but it only gives 30fps, cause the TV works in 60hz, not 120hz like a LCD display, but it's the mandatory mode for 3Dvision displays. So, if you compare FP 1080p24hz vs FS 1080p60hz, FS is far superior cause it's 60hz vs 24hz so gameplay is smoother and 24fps vs 30fps, no more laggy and sluggish gameplay and 30fps is used for most console games, so it's much more playable than 24fps. 3DTV Play's Frame Packing doesn't stand a chance for 3D gaming compared to 3Dvision's checkerboard and frame sequential.
Nvidia only tested Panasonic 3D TVs, so they never knew Samsung's 3D TVs would support CB and also FS. That's why they created 3DTV Play. But if you own a Samsung instead, you dont need 3DTV Play, cause we can use and adapt our Samsung 3D TVs to work with a much better 3D gaming solution known as 3D Vision.
And you also can choose CB that looks almost the same as FS, but it's 60fps per eye. And believe me, I've played enough with 3DTV Play to know what I'm saying. CB 1080p60hz in PC mode looks better than FP 1080p24hz cause it works in PC mode instad of video mode like and besides FP is full resolution per eye really doesn't make such a difference compared t half resolution per eye, it's really video vs PC mode that does. So, saying that FP 720p60hz looks better than CB 1080p60hz is ridiculous, whoever says that has never tried CB before, You must see to believe. Don't try IZ3D and Tridef CB, try Nvidia CB and FS. Much more games compatible.
You have to try this out and see for yourself, but you must own a 3D Ready Samsung Plasma/LED TV, cause Sony and Panasonic don't support 3Dvision's Checkerboard and Frame Sequential.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='francomg' date='21 May 2011 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1305963258' post='1240382']
I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
[/quote]
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast.
I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.
I will mention again that turning Sharpness way down (below 20) is important on these TVs and especially in 3D.
If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.
If you want to play a slow-moving game in 2D (an RPG like Dragon Age 2 or The Witcher 2, for example) then switch your tv to a normal television mode and turn ON all the video processing goodies. This will add some milliseconds of lag to your game, but you won't really notice it. But it will make everything run silky smooth and just look much better.
Could Nvidia please at least disable the warning message in 3D Vision, or put a 30 second timer on it?? My understanding is that this would allow people to use 3D Vision at least without any hardware hacks? I only started looking at all this in March. But it is a little ridiculous that people have had to jump through all these hoops to get the most out of your great product. Adding support might be too much of a hassle, but removing a warning message is extremely simple and requires no quality testing. And if simplicity is the goal for 3D TV Play, then leave all the advanced settings in an .ini file for advanced users to play with. Normal customers will never see them or even know they are there, but your more technical customers can tweak everything to run any way they want. They could set 3D modes, force the signal no matter what tv it detects, disable all warning messages, whatever. You have people spending time on supporting individual makes/models of TVs, instead of just providing one customizable support option for everyone to enjoy. Your customers can support each other this way without having to resort to ridiculous hardware and software hacks. And people like us will finally leave you alone. Pretty Please?? :)
[quote name='francomg' date='21 May 2011 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1305963258' post='1240382']
I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast.
I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.
I will mention again that turning Sharpness way down (below 20) is important on these TVs and especially in 3D.
If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.
If you want to play a slow-moving game in 2D (an RPG like Dragon Age 2 or The Witcher 2, for example) then switch your tv to a normal television mode and turn ON all the video processing goodies. This will add some milliseconds of lag to your game, but you won't really notice it. But it will make everything run silky smooth and just look much better.
Could Nvidia please at least disable the warning message in 3D Vision, or put a 30 second timer on it?? My understanding is that this would allow people to use 3D Vision at least without any hardware hacks? I only started looking at all this in March. But it is a little ridiculous that people have had to jump through all these hoops to get the most out of your great product. Adding support might be too much of a hassle, but removing a warning message is extremely simple and requires no quality testing. And if simplicity is the goal for 3D TV Play, then leave all the advanced settings in an .ini file for advanced users to play with. Normal customers will never see them or even know they are there, but your more technical customers can tweak everything to run any way they want. They could set 3D modes, force the signal no matter what tv it detects, disable all warning messages, whatever. You have people spending time on supporting individual makes/models of TVs, instead of just providing one customizable support option for everyone to enjoy. Your customers can support each other this way without having to resort to ridiculous hardware and software hacks. And people like us will finally leave you alone. Pretty Please?? :)
[quote name='AustinTex' date='23 May 2011 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1306172953' post='1241376']
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast. [/quote]
Seems the 2010 Samsungs and 2011 have differences. The 2010 Plasmas that francomg and I own have 'dynamic contrast' under picture > advanced settings, choices are off/low/norm/high. However, 'advanced settings' is greyed out if menu > mode is 'dynamic', so 'standard' or 'movie' must be choosen.
[quote]I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.[/quote]
Depending on the settings, the colors may or may not be slightly 'washed out' just as you say. But the overall quality is so vastly superior to god-awful framepacking even the washed out settings don't bother me in the slightest. Now I find that francomg's setting completely change that, the colors are so brilliant and pop that I can't image they could be improved upon. Best of all, the increased colors don't cause all the ugly artifacts of framepacking induced Video mode. For me, the menu > picture > picture options > HDMI levels is the key. Changing it from 'normal' to 'low' makes all the difference, that's what makes the colors pop. I'm still experimenting but it seems different games like different settings, and personal preference is the main factor.
[quote]If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.[/quote]
What is game mode, I don't see it anywhere?
[quote name='AustinTex' date='23 May 2011 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1306172953' post='1241376']
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast.
Seems the 2010 Samsungs and 2011 have differences. The 2010 Plasmas that francomg and I own have 'dynamic contrast' under picture > advanced settings, choices are off/low/norm/high. However, 'advanced settings' is greyed out if menu > mode is 'dynamic', so 'standard' or 'movie' must be choosen.
I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.
Depending on the settings, the colors may or may not be slightly 'washed out' just as you say. But the overall quality is so vastly superior to god-awful framepacking even the washed out settings don't bother me in the slightest. Now I find that francomg's setting completely change that, the colors are so brilliant and pop that I can't image they could be improved upon. Best of all, the increased colors don't cause all the ugly artifacts of framepacking induced Video mode. For me, the menu > picture > picture options > HDMI levels is the key. Changing it from 'normal' to 'low' makes all the difference, that's what makes the colors pop. I'm still experimenting but it seems different games like different settings, and personal preference is the main factor.
If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.
I've never liked 3DTV Play and was only playing games in my Alienware 120hz display cause I always thought that 3DTV Play never looked quite good compared to 3Dvision in my 120hz LCD display. Even at 1080p24hz games had edges that made the graphics look strange compared to my LCD 120hz display and it was almost impossible to play games at 24fps. 720p looked even worst due to scaling and the edges looked like crap, making games in 3D unplayable to me despite of 60fps possible to achieve at that lower resolution. Roller mentioned that FP looked weird due to video processing mode, mandatory for FP, and I've never really thought that what he said was actually very noticeable, it really is.
So, I installed Rollermod to be able to use 3DVision (Frame sequential or Checkerboard) instead of 3DTV Play (Frame Packing). The installation is easy and after that I've just reboot my PC and there was no more 3DTV Play logo in Nvidia Control Panel, just a box with 3 options to choose, Generic CRT monitor, 3D Vision discover and DLP display. The 1st stands for 3DVision frame sequential 1080p60hz = 30hz per eye/30fps and the 3rd option is checkerboard, 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye, but also half resolution per eye. My Samsung was now a HDMI 1.3 TV.
Well, If I was in video pixel processing mode I was not going be able to select checkerboard and frame sequential, only side-by-side or under-over. That's why you have to set Samsung input label to DVI/PC to be able to unblock all 7 3D layouts including checkerboard and frame sequential. Those options don’t appear in video mode, only PC mode.
I’ve played Just Cause 2 in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP in the NCP. Once the game started I had to press Samsung 3D key and choose to 6th 3D layout to the right which is checkerboard. The sides were swapped I and had to apply picture correction twice to correct the 3D effect. I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
After I've made these adjustments to picture quality I was definatelly blown away by checkerboard 3D quality in 1080p60hz. I've never seen such good graphics for a 3D game in my TV, and Just Cause 2 looked just like I was playing with 3Dvision (full resolution per eye) in my LCD 120hz display. No more edges, no more color over saturated like crap video mode.
I could not believe I was playing Just Cause at 1080p native resolution, perfect shining 3D graphics at 60fps, amazing 3D quality. I swear checkerboard rules and it looks way better than 3DTV Play frame packed 1080p24hz, forget about 720p, I am comparing CB 1080p60hz vs FP 1080p24hz, not talking about hertz, just 3D overall quality. Roller was right all this time, the problem with FP is video mode, making PC games look like crap in 3D compared to PC mode.
It’s so obvious the difference that you must try out Rollermod if you own a Samsung 3DTV to see for yourself. iIf you own Panasonic, Sony or LG than I am sorry for you, you don't know what you missing. Unfortunately you can’t use 3Dvision with your TV , just 3DTV Play.
Checkerboard is amazing but there is an annoying red message saying that my TV needs the Vesa cable connected to the IR receiver and there's just no way to get rid of this message cause my TV doesn't have a 3D sync input that connects to 3Dvision IR receiver. Rollermod fools Nvidia drivers to think my HDMI 1.4 TV is a HDMI 1.3, so it will also think I need this cable connected, since 3D DLP and 2008 Samsung Plasmas had this input.
Roller figured out a way to suppress this red message, a Hardware hack that eliminates this red message after is connected to 3D Vision IR emitter 3D sync input and I think it's worth 100% after I've how CB 3D gaming looks like. I'll definatelly PM him and see how he can send me this HW since I don't have his skills for building one myself.
I've also tried Just Cause 2 in Frame sequential 3Dvision, the same 3D mode we use for playing 3D games in a 120hz LCD display. I've just selected Generic CRT monitor instead of DLP and applied this setting in NCP.
Than all I have to do was press Samsung remote 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right for frame sequential. When I though Rollermod could not get any better, it does. Frame sequential is awesome and beats by far 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. You have full resolution per eye as well but 30fps + PC mode instead of 24fps and video mode.
I can honestly say that I really enjoyed playing games in 1080p30hz, since frame sequential works perfectly, sometimes there’s lost of sync, but this due to Samsung glasses that are not very good, this also happen sometimes when playing 3D games with 3DTV Play.
I was blown away with FS 3D overall quality and most games are very playable at 30fps, much smoother than lousy 24fps. Even consoles run their games at 30fps average, so it's not bad at all, it might not be suitable for shooting games but I found Just Cause 2 to be very playable at 30fps, unlike FP 24fps. But believe the big deal of this experiment was not really about hertz and FPS. It was about video pixel processing mode VS PC mode, and Roller was right, video mode sucks for PC gaming, 2D and 3D, that's why 3DTV Play frame packed is not up to 3Dvision (checkerboard and frame sequential).
When you play games in FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye, the IR emitter green light shines stronger like If I was using my Alienware 120hz display. Very cool, this doesn't happen with frame packed 3DTV Play, it’s really like using 3Dvision + Plasma TV.
In terms of ghosting I didn't see big differences between Frame packed and frame sequential. AlI’m aware now that video mode sucks for 3D gaming and that's why 3DTV Play is a no go for me from now on. I found very hard to notice differences between CB and FS in 3D overall quality. I know FS is full resolution per eye like FP, but Checkerboard looked just as good and it’s only half resolution per eye.
I've also tried Batman AA, Left 4 Dead 2 and I was impressed how those games looked in CB 1080p60hz, specially Batman. After adjusting convergence it just got better. I was about to play Batman all night like that, just the best looking game I've tried tonight. I could not believe it was half resolution per eye, it looked far better than FP 1080p24hz and I’ve played this game in 1080p24hz FP, I know what I’m saying. Off course 60fps is much smoother, but graphics looked perfect in CB and there were no egdes unlike FP, just perfect like if I was playing batman in my 120hz display.
I also tried FS 1080p60hz and couldn't tell the difference between CB and FS in overall 3D quality, only difference was that FS = 30fps and CB = 60fps. To me CB and FS looked very similar in those 3 games. I still have the impression that CB has a bit more ghosting than FS. This varies from game to game. Batman and Just Cause 2 looked almost perfect in CB and FS, Left 4 Dead 2 had some ghosting, but that also happens with 3DTV Play and my 120hz LCD display.
The big deal is really the way PC mode process pixels for PC gaming, video mode just ruins the experience, video mode is suitable for TV and bluray3D, console gaming but most definatelly not for PC gaming, 2D and 3D. That's why from now on I'm never going back to 3DTV Play, never. I love 3Dvision and now I can use it in my 120hz LCD display and also 3D Samsung C8000 Plasma, no need at all for 3DTV Play. I can play games with perfect eye candy 3D quality in 1920x1080p60hz or 30hz, I have 2 very suitable options. No need to be stuck with 1080p24hz and ugly scaled 720p 3D gaming.
Nvidia, you must give us CB, it really rules. I'm 100% sure that if frame packing also worked in PC mode it would look much better. But that’s not your fault, it’s a pity that frame packing is a mandatory mode and only accepts video mode.
No need for it anyway, I can play games in 3D in 1080p full resolution per eye at 30fps or I can choose half resolution per eye at 60fps.
If you have 3D Ready Samsung Plasma or LED TV don't waste time, give rollermod a try and you won't be sorry at all. Forget about 3DTV Play you don't need that. You have 3Dvision which is far superior. See to believe!!!!!!
Roller, Now I understand crystal clear why you say Samsung are the only suitable 3D ready TV for gaming. I will never play 3D games in video mode again, never more. I also realized you can't use PC mode for TV broadcast and cable, it stays in PC mode, but it's actually video mode since you can only select three 3D layouts, but once I select my PC as primary display all 7 3D layouts show again.
I have tried GTA IV Episodes but it does not work for FS and CB, for some reason GTA IV doesn't work in PC mode, only video mode. You can't select CB and FS for this game. Weird????
Unfortunately I'll need 3DTV Play for bluray3d as it only works in frame packing for full resolution per eye. I will try your restore.inf and see if it works. I don't need to reboot, just log off, right?
I’ve created a restore point just in case though.
Thanks for letting us know about your experiments, you're a true genius. You really made me want to use my Samsung TV for 3D gaming. Everything you said I saw with my own eyes today. I've played those 3 games for hours in FS and CB and I'm convinced, there's just no going back to 3DTV Play FP. After I set Samsung’s dynamic contrast to high the opaque color problem for PC mode was gone, now colors look very good, even better than video mode.
PM me, I want to talk to you about your hardware that suppresses the red annoying message in CB mode. FS is the best mode as it’s full resolution per eye, but I agree that for some games 30fps will not be enough, that's why I need CB as it looks just as good, but I need to get rid of this annoying red message. Do you also find difficult to see differences between CB and FS? They look almost identical to me, playing 3D games in 60fps is a reality thanks to you.
There's a very big difference between playing games at 30fps compared to 24fps. I don't think Nvidia folks are aware of what those Samsung TV's can do??? But you must get credit for all that, without your rollermod we would be stuck with 3DTV play ugly video mode and 24fps. I don't know how some folks say that FP 720p60hz looks any good or better than CB. I'm sure they have never seen what CB (PC mode 1080p60hz). You must see to believe. I had no idea it would be such a huge difference. Big deal of difference.
I hope Nvidia hires you someday...................... I’ll let some friends of mine that are 3Dvision users and were also upset about the HDMI 1.4 limitations aware that there is a solution. Just get a Samsung 3D ready TV and use your magic mod.
I've never liked 3DTV Play and was only playing games in my Alienware 120hz display cause I always thought that 3DTV Play never looked quite good compared to 3Dvision in my 120hz LCD display. Even at 1080p24hz games had edges that made the graphics look strange compared to my LCD 120hz display and it was almost impossible to play games at 24fps. 720p looked even worst due to scaling and the edges looked like crap, making games in 3D unplayable to me despite of 60fps possible to achieve at that lower resolution. Roller mentioned that FP looked weird due to video processing mode, mandatory for FP, and I've never really thought that what he said was actually very noticeable, it really is.
So, I installed Rollermod to be able to use 3DVision (Frame sequential or Checkerboard) instead of 3DTV Play (Frame Packing). The installation is easy and after that I've just reboot my PC and there was no more 3DTV Play logo in Nvidia Control Panel, just a box with 3 options to choose, Generic CRT monitor, 3D Vision discover and DLP display. The 1st stands for 3DVision frame sequential 1080p60hz = 30hz per eye/30fps and the 3rd option is checkerboard, 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye, but also half resolution per eye. My Samsung was now a HDMI 1.3 TV.
Well, If I was in video pixel processing mode I was not going be able to select checkerboard and frame sequential, only side-by-side or under-over. That's why you have to set Samsung input label to DVI/PC to be able to unblock all 7 3D layouts including checkerboard and frame sequential. Those options don’t appear in video mode, only PC mode.
I’ve played Just Cause 2 in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP in the NCP. Once the game started I had to press Samsung 3D key and choose to 6th 3D layout to the right which is checkerboard. The sides were swapped I and had to apply picture correction twice to correct the 3D effect. I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
After I've made these adjustments to picture quality I was definatelly blown away by checkerboard 3D quality in 1080p60hz. I've never seen such good graphics for a 3D game in my TV, and Just Cause 2 looked just like I was playing with 3Dvision (full resolution per eye) in my LCD 120hz display. No more edges, no more color over saturated like crap video mode.
I could not believe I was playing Just Cause at 1080p native resolution, perfect shining 3D graphics at 60fps, amazing 3D quality. I swear checkerboard rules and it looks way better than 3DTV Play frame packed 1080p24hz, forget about 720p, I am comparing CB 1080p60hz vs FP 1080p24hz, not talking about hertz, just 3D overall quality. Roller was right all this time, the problem with FP is video mode, making PC games look like crap in 3D compared to PC mode.
It’s so obvious the difference that you must try out Rollermod if you own a Samsung 3DTV to see for yourself. iIf you own Panasonic, Sony or LG than I am sorry for you, you don't know what you missing. Unfortunately you can’t use 3Dvision with your TV , just 3DTV Play.
Checkerboard is amazing but there is an annoying red message saying that my TV needs the Vesa cable connected to the IR receiver and there's just no way to get rid of this message cause my TV doesn't have a 3D sync input that connects to 3Dvision IR receiver. Rollermod fools Nvidia drivers to think my HDMI 1.4 TV is a HDMI 1.3, so it will also think I need this cable connected, since 3D DLP and 2008 Samsung Plasmas had this input.
Roller figured out a way to suppress this red message, a Hardware hack that eliminates this red message after is connected to 3D Vision IR emitter 3D sync input and I think it's worth 100% after I've how CB 3D gaming looks like. I'll definatelly PM him and see how he can send me this HW since I don't have his skills for building one myself.
I've also tried Just Cause 2 in Frame sequential 3Dvision, the same 3D mode we use for playing 3D games in a 120hz LCD display. I've just selected Generic CRT monitor instead of DLP and applied this setting in NCP.
Than all I have to do was press Samsung remote 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right for frame sequential. When I though Rollermod could not get any better, it does. Frame sequential is awesome and beats by far 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. You have full resolution per eye as well but 30fps + PC mode instead of 24fps and video mode.
I can honestly say that I really enjoyed playing games in 1080p30hz, since frame sequential works perfectly, sometimes there’s lost of sync, but this due to Samsung glasses that are not very good, this also happen sometimes when playing 3D games with 3DTV Play.
I was blown away with FS 3D overall quality and most games are very playable at 30fps, much smoother than lousy 24fps. Even consoles run their games at 30fps average, so it's not bad at all, it might not be suitable for shooting games but I found Just Cause 2 to be very playable at 30fps, unlike FP 24fps. But believe the big deal of this experiment was not really about hertz and FPS. It was about video pixel processing mode VS PC mode, and Roller was right, video mode sucks for PC gaming, 2D and 3D, that's why 3DTV Play frame packed is not up to 3Dvision (checkerboard and frame sequential).
When you play games in FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye, the IR emitter green light shines stronger like If I was using my Alienware 120hz display. Very cool, this doesn't happen with frame packed 3DTV Play, it’s really like using 3Dvision + Plasma TV.
In terms of ghosting I didn't see big differences between Frame packed and frame sequential. AlI’m aware now that video mode sucks for 3D gaming and that's why 3DTV Play is a no go for me from now on. I found very hard to notice differences between CB and FS in 3D overall quality. I know FS is full resolution per eye like FP, but Checkerboard looked just as good and it’s only half resolution per eye.
I've also tried Batman AA, Left 4 Dead 2 and I was impressed how those games looked in CB 1080p60hz, specially Batman. After adjusting convergence it just got better. I was about to play Batman all night like that, just the best looking game I've tried tonight. I could not believe it was half resolution per eye, it looked far better than FP 1080p24hz and I’ve played this game in 1080p24hz FP, I know what I’m saying. Off course 60fps is much smoother, but graphics looked perfect in CB and there were no egdes unlike FP, just perfect like if I was playing batman in my 120hz display.
I also tried FS 1080p60hz and couldn't tell the difference between CB and FS in overall 3D quality, only difference was that FS = 30fps and CB = 60fps. To me CB and FS looked very similar in those 3 games. I still have the impression that CB has a bit more ghosting than FS. This varies from game to game. Batman and Just Cause 2 looked almost perfect in CB and FS, Left 4 Dead 2 had some ghosting, but that also happens with 3DTV Play and my 120hz LCD display.
The big deal is really the way PC mode process pixels for PC gaming, video mode just ruins the experience, video mode is suitable for TV and bluray3D, console gaming but most definatelly not for PC gaming, 2D and 3D. That's why from now on I'm never going back to 3DTV Play, never. I love 3Dvision and now I can use it in my 120hz LCD display and also 3D Samsung C8000 Plasma, no need at all for 3DTV Play. I can play games with perfect eye candy 3D quality in 1920x1080p60hz or 30hz, I have 2 very suitable options. No need to be stuck with 1080p24hz and ugly scaled 720p 3D gaming.
Nvidia, you must give us CB, it really rules. I'm 100% sure that if frame packing also worked in PC mode it would look much better. But that’s not your fault, it’s a pity that frame packing is a mandatory mode and only accepts video mode.
No need for it anyway, I can play games in 3D in 1080p full resolution per eye at 30fps or I can choose half resolution per eye at 60fps.
If you have 3D Ready Samsung Plasma or LED TV don't waste time, give rollermod a try and you won't be sorry at all. Forget about 3DTV Play you don't need that. You have 3Dvision which is far superior. See to believe!!!!!!
Roller, Now I understand crystal clear why you say Samsung are the only suitable 3D ready TV for gaming. I will never play 3D games in video mode again, never more. I also realized you can't use PC mode for TV broadcast and cable, it stays in PC mode, but it's actually video mode since you can only select three 3D layouts, but once I select my PC as primary display all 7 3D layouts show again.
I have tried GTA IV Episodes but it does not work for FS and CB, for some reason GTA IV doesn't work in PC mode, only video mode. You can't select CB and FS for this game. Weird????
Unfortunately I'll need 3DTV Play for bluray3d as it only works in frame packing for full resolution per eye. I will try your restore.inf and see if it works. I don't need to reboot, just log off, right?
I’ve created a restore point just in case though.
Thanks for letting us know about your experiments, you're a true genius. You really made me want to use my Samsung TV for 3D gaming. Everything you said I saw with my own eyes today. I've played those 3 games for hours in FS and CB and I'm convinced, there's just no going back to 3DTV Play FP. After I set Samsung’s dynamic contrast to high the opaque color problem for PC mode was gone, now colors look very good, even better than video mode.
PM me, I want to talk to you about your hardware that suppresses the red annoying message in CB mode. FS is the best mode as it’s full resolution per eye, but I agree that for some games 30fps will not be enough, that's why I need CB as it looks just as good, but I need to get rid of this annoying red message. Do you also find difficult to see differences between CB and FS? They look almost identical to me, playing 3D games in 60fps is a reality thanks to you.
There's a very big difference between playing games at 30fps compared to 24fps. I don't think Nvidia folks are aware of what those Samsung TV's can do??? But you must get credit for all that, without your rollermod we would be stuck with 3DTV play ugly video mode and 24fps. I don't know how some folks say that FP 720p60hz looks any good or better than CB. I'm sure they have never seen what CB (PC mode 1080p60hz). You must see to believe. I had no idea it would be such a huge difference. Big deal of difference.
I hope Nvidia hires you someday...................... I’ll let some friends of mine that are 3Dvision users and were also upset about the HDMI 1.4 limitations aware that there is a solution. Just get a Samsung 3D ready TV and use your magic mod.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
Btw i agree about hdmi 1.4 limitations being disappointing.
Btw i agree about hdmi 1.4 limitations being disappointing.
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Samsung 65D8000
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
I've just found out that I won't need 3DTV Play ever again. I thought I would need to switch between Rollermod (3DVision) and 3DTV Play cause of bluray3D. I thought that with 3DVision I would only be able to watch bluray3D in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP TV in PDVD10 settings, therefore CB is only half resolution per eye so it's worse than FP 1080p24hz provided by 3DTV Play for bluray3D playback. So, I've set CRT generic instead of DLP 3D in the Nvidia control panel box for 3D options. Then I went through PDVD10 settings and selected 3D Vision 120hz display instead of HDMI 1.4 enabled TV. So I picked a 3DBD title and played with PDVD10 to see how this would work out. The movie started and all I had to do was press Samsung remote controller 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right which is frame sequential. I had to apply picture correction, but just once though. Remember that you need to set Samsung TV's input label to DVI/PC to switch to PC mode, only this mode accepts Checkerboard and Frame sequential.
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
[/quote]
I've just found out that I won't need 3DTV Play ever again. I thought I would need to switch between Rollermod (3DVision) and 3DTV Play cause of bluray3D. I thought that with 3DVision I would only be able to watch bluray3D in checkerboard mode by selecting DLP TV in PDVD10 settings, therefore CB is only half resolution per eye so it's worse than FP 1080p24hz provided by 3DTV Play for bluray3D playback. So, I've set CRT generic instead of DLP 3D in the Nvidia control panel box for 3D options. Then I went through PDVD10 settings and selected 3D Vision 120hz display instead of HDMI 1.4 enabled TV. So I picked a 3DBD title and played with PDVD10 to see how this would work out. The movie started and all I had to do was press Samsung remote controller 3D key and select the 7th 3D layout to the right which is frame sequential. I had to apply picture correction, but just once though. Remember that you need to set Samsung TV's input label to DVI/PC to switch to PC mode, only this mode accepts Checkerboard and Frame sequential.
3D quality was perfect for bluray3D playback using PDVD 10 and I was watching BD3D in FS 1080p60hz instead of 1080p24hz, but using fraps I would still see 24fps, cause bluray3D always runs at this frame rate. I didn't notice any difference between 1080p60hz vs 1080p24hz for BD3D playback, I think it's because FP 1080p24hz and FS 1080p60hz even having different refresh rates both play BD3D at 24fps. Not sure though...
Now I can watch bluray3D using PDVD10 and also TM3 without no need at all for 3DTV Play frame packing, all I need is 3Dvision. I can't believe I had this option along the way, I'll I need to do was fooling Nvidia drivers to think that my Samsung C8000 HDMI 1.4 is an older 2008 Samsung 3D Ready HDMI 1.3 TV by using replacing the TV's original inf file for rollermod inf.
I will also now watch bluray3D using PDVD10 or TM3 in PC mode, not just video mode, cause FS only works in PC mode. I've tested a couple of BD3D titles and I see some differences between the 2 modes. FS 1080p60hz has more detailed image and less eges compared to FP 1080p24hz, the only advantage for FP to me is better color saturation and deeper blacks for movies compared to FS PC mode. 3D Gaming s a different story though.
The big advantages you Samsung 3D ready HDMI TV owners must understand is that we don't need 3DTV Play, we have 3D Vision for games and movies including bluray3D and mkv. Everything your 120hz display can do your Samsung TV can also do. You just have to use rollermod otherwise your HDMI 1.4 Sammy TV wil be doomed to 3DTV Play FP, which is great for bluray3D, but a total disapointment for 3D gaming.
If I just use 3Dvision for my samsung 3DTV I won't need 3DTV Play anymore, so no need for roller replacemod file. I have both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye and FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye for 3D gaming and bluray3D. It's like if I had a 63" 3Dvision plasma display. No need for 3DTV Play Frame packing if I can use 3D Vision Frame Sequential.
I've played Just cause yesterday for a few hours in FS 1080p60hz at 30fps per eye. I must say that the difference in playing 3D games in this mode compared to FP 1080p24hz is huge, I mean it's hole different story. No more sluggish and laggy gameplay.FS 1080p60hz is stuck at 30fps tops but the refresh rate is actually 60hz, not 24hz, so this makes a huge difference, games don't lag, FS 1080p60hz is much smoother than FP 1080p24hz. Playing games in FS 1080p60hz is very playable for many games unlike FP 1080p24hz, JC2 and Batman AA are perfect playable at 30fps and this is the frame rate's average for console gaming, so it's really good. Also you will hav the great advantage of playing 3D games in PC mode and this will improve 3D overall quality a lot compared to FP 1080p24hz. No more edges and blured 3D in PC mode, just perfect 3D, way better than any 120hz display. You have to try this out to see for yourself.
Forget about 3DTV Play.... Your Samsung 3D ready TV is 100% 3Dvision (FS and CB) compatible display, we don't need 3DTV Play software like Panasonic and Sony users. Don't know if LG supports CB and FS modes?
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
Francomg, i hope you have a camera, or can borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference. I just saw a photo of a screen yesterday or the day before of a screen, which looked perfect, which annoyed the hell out of me when thinking back to roller's comment saying camera couldn't possible show the difference.
[/quote]
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
Francomg, i hope you have a camera, or can borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference. I just saw a photo of a screen yesterday or the day before of a screen, which looked perfect, which annoyed the hell out of me when thinking back to roller's comment saying camera couldn't possible show the difference.
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
[/quote]
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a [b][i]difference[/i][/b] Roller. Will you see the exact same image? No. Will you see the difference? YES.
I don't know about Samsungs, but on my TV, all my hundreds of desktop photos that i've browsed many times since i got this TV still look very good compared to my 2560x1600 monitor.
This will never, ever work. The pic is capturing a bit map, it's the same bit map no matter what computer it is taken on. The characteristics of the pic are a function of the TV that is displaying the pic, not the display on which pic was taken. So the only way you can ever see what Francomg is viewing is to view it on a display identical to his with the same settings. If your HDTV is set to Video mode, the pic will be seen in video mode and therefore look crappy.
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a difference Roller. Will you see the exact same image? No. Will you see the difference? YES.
I don't know about Samsungs, but on my TV, all my hundreds of desktop photos that i've browsed many times since i got this TV still look very good compared to my 2560x1600 monitor.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
Here: [url="http://www.avsforum....=1324688&page=4/"]http://www.avsforum....=1324688&page=4[/url]
Here: http://www.avsforum....=1324688&page=4
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a [b][i]difference[/i][/b] Roller. [/quote]
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
With a good enough camera and settings and preferably taken with a tripod or a way to not move the camera between shots, and taking the photo of the exact same things, the comparison photos will clearly show a difference Roller.
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
[/quote]
Roller, you might misunderstand my intentions. I mean you take 2 photos per comparison shot, not one. I don't mean you just take one photo of the screen while in CB mode and post in on the web. I mean to take 2 or more shots of the same thing, one of CB, one of the other modes in question, preferably also one in 2D mode to be used as a reference. It will show a difference on any monitor ever made if it can be seen by your human eye. THEN, we, the forum goers, will use our powers of deduction and drawn some conclusions as to proportional differences between the modes.
I [size="3"][b]know[/b][/size] it will work [size="4"]because i've already done it[/size] [size="5"]with a cheap point and click cam (Kodak z158515) [/size][size="7"][size="6"]and it clearly showed differences between 1080p and 720p![/size]
[/size]
100% of the difference will be due to difference between the displays on which the photos are seen. The pics themselves are exactly the same. So what's the point of Francomg taking a pic and viewing it on your display? If you got a crappy display, it's going look like crap no matter how good the pic is. You take the same pic as Francomg and it will look exactly the same, both viewed on the same display. The flaw in your logic is you think the display you're using when you take the pic somehow influences the values of the individual pixels, it doesn't.
Roller, you might misunderstand my intentions. I mean you take 2 photos per comparison shot, not one. I don't mean you just take one photo of the screen while in CB mode and post in on the web. I mean to take 2 or more shots of the same thing, one of CB, one of the other modes in question, preferably also one in 2D mode to be used as a reference. It will show a difference on any monitor ever made if it can be seen by your human eye. THEN, we, the forum goers, will use our powers of deduction and drawn some conclusions as to proportional differences between the modes.
I know it will work because i've already done it with a cheap point and click cam (Kodak z158515) and it clearly showed differences between 1080p and 720p!
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
"borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference"
Francomg's "difference" was the difference between Video mode and PC mode both at 1080P. Not the difference between 1080P and 720P. So my question stands: why would you ask Francomg to post a 720P vs 1080P comparison? You can take the two same pics on your system and post them.
"borrow a camera thats good enough to show us all the difference"
Francomg's "difference" was the difference between Video mode and PC mode both at 1080P. Not the difference between 1080P and 720P. So my question stands: why would you ask Francomg to post a 720P vs 1080P comparison? You can take the two same pics on your system and post them.
I think you have to see it with your own eyes, no camera will show the difference. The pictures must be taken with Fraps to work in 3D, no 2D camera will show the difference if it's a 3D picture.
Even if I use fraps and take the pics in 1080p60hz CB and then FP 1080p24h, it won't matter if you see in your TV in video mode. I mean if you use video mode to view the pics you won't see the difference, you'll have to select PC mode instead, and I'm not sure Panasonic have PC mode, but I think Panasonic 3D plasma should have cause my Panasonic 2D plasma does. So, it won't really matter.
Libertine, why don't you use Fraps and take a pic of some 3D game you have in FP 1080p24hz, after you've done that, just set your Panasonic TV to PC mode and view the picture using 3dvision picture viewer. Problem is that you can't use 3DTV Play cause cause it will only work in video mode, so you have to use SBS or Under-over, but then the pic was taken in FP mode, so I don't think it will work. It would be nice to to see how FP 1080p24hz will look like in PC mode, this would give you an idea of how 3D gaming looks in PC mode in your TV. I think you see where I'm getting with this. The big deal difference is not between FP, FS or CB, it's video mode vs PC mode.
I've tried for hours both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye (half resolution) and also FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye (full resolution) and I can't tell the difference, it's not really noticeable, you have to really be picky to tell a difference. On the other hand I find really easy to see a big quality difference between 3DTV Play's FP 1080p24hz vs 3Dvision's CB and FS and that's due to video mode.
Believe me dude, I won't lie that I thought Roller was full of BS when he said something about video mode and PC mode, cause all we had in our minds was the 24fps limitation, never really the 3D overall quality and I always thought that 3D games looked much better in my 120hz display compared to 3DTV Play. I'm not talking about 720p, I don't use this lower resolution for nothing, so I'm always talking about 1080p. Now, after I used rollermod and was able to play games in FS and CB I definatelly see no difference to 3D games using my TV and 120hz display, the 3D quality is awesome in both. But the TV has a much bigger screen and deeper blacks, so it's better now. I woudn't say this about 3DTV Pla cause FP only works in video mode, so it creates ugly edges around graphics unlike PC mode for 3D gaming.
Now, besides the advantages I have by using CB and FS in PC mode, I can also play games in 1080p60hz for both CB and FS, but CB is 60fps per eye and FS is 30fps per eye, so both modes are far superior compared to 1080p24hz and 720p60hz.
FS 1080p60hz is also full resolution per eye, same mode used my 3dvision + 120hz display, but it only gives 30fps, cause the TV works in 60hz, not 120hz like a LCD display, but it's the mandatory mode for 3Dvision displays. So, if you compare FP 1080p24hz vs FS 1080p60hz, FS is far superior cause it's 60hz vs 24hz so gameplay is smoother and 24fps vs 30fps, no more laggy and sluggish gameplay and 30fps is used for most console games, so it's much more playable than 24fps. 3DTV Play's Frame Packing doesn't stand a chance for 3D gaming compared to 3Dvision's checkerboard and frame sequential.
Nvidia only tested Panasonic 3D TVs, so they never knew Samsung's 3D TVs would support CB and also FS. That's why they created 3DTV Play. But if you own a Samsung instead, you dont need 3DTV Play, cause we can use and adapt our Samsung 3D TVs to work with a much better 3D gaming solution known as 3D Vision.
And you also can choose CB that looks almost the same as FS, but it's 60fps per eye. And believe me, I've played enough with 3DTV Play to know what I'm saying. CB 1080p60hz in PC mode looks better than FP 1080p24hz cause it works in PC mode instad of video mode like and besides FP is full resolution per eye really doesn't make such a difference compared t half resolution per eye, it's really video vs PC mode that does. So, saying that FP 720p60hz looks better than CB 1080p60hz is ridiculous, whoever says that has never tried CB before, You must see to believe. Don't try IZ3D and Tridef CB, try Nvidia CB and FS. Much more games compatible.
You have to try this out and see for yourself, but you must own a 3D Ready Samsung Plasma/LED TV, cause Sony and Panasonic don't support 3Dvision's Checkerboard and Frame Sequential.
I think you have to see it with your own eyes, no camera will show the difference. The pictures must be taken with Fraps to work in 3D, no 2D camera will show the difference if it's a 3D picture.
Even if I use fraps and take the pics in 1080p60hz CB and then FP 1080p24h, it won't matter if you see in your TV in video mode. I mean if you use video mode to view the pics you won't see the difference, you'll have to select PC mode instead, and I'm not sure Panasonic have PC mode, but I think Panasonic 3D plasma should have cause my Panasonic 2D plasma does. So, it won't really matter.
Libertine, why don't you use Fraps and take a pic of some 3D game you have in FP 1080p24hz, after you've done that, just set your Panasonic TV to PC mode and view the picture using 3dvision picture viewer. Problem is that you can't use 3DTV Play cause cause it will only work in video mode, so you have to use SBS or Under-over, but then the pic was taken in FP mode, so I don't think it will work. It would be nice to to see how FP 1080p24hz will look like in PC mode, this would give you an idea of how 3D gaming looks in PC mode in your TV. I think you see where I'm getting with this. The big deal difference is not between FP, FS or CB, it's video mode vs PC mode.
I've tried for hours both CB 1080p60hz = 60fps per eye (half resolution) and also FS 1080p60hz = 30fps per eye (full resolution) and I can't tell the difference, it's not really noticeable, you have to really be picky to tell a difference. On the other hand I find really easy to see a big quality difference between 3DTV Play's FP 1080p24hz vs 3Dvision's CB and FS and that's due to video mode.
Believe me dude, I won't lie that I thought Roller was full of BS when he said something about video mode and PC mode, cause all we had in our minds was the 24fps limitation, never really the 3D overall quality and I always thought that 3D games looked much better in my 120hz display compared to 3DTV Play. I'm not talking about 720p, I don't use this lower resolution for nothing, so I'm always talking about 1080p. Now, after I used rollermod and was able to play games in FS and CB I definatelly see no difference to 3D games using my TV and 120hz display, the 3D quality is awesome in both. But the TV has a much bigger screen and deeper blacks, so it's better now. I woudn't say this about 3DTV Pla cause FP only works in video mode, so it creates ugly edges around graphics unlike PC mode for 3D gaming.
Now, besides the advantages I have by using CB and FS in PC mode, I can also play games in 1080p60hz for both CB and FS, but CB is 60fps per eye and FS is 30fps per eye, so both modes are far superior compared to 1080p24hz and 720p60hz.
FS 1080p60hz is also full resolution per eye, same mode used my 3dvision + 120hz display, but it only gives 30fps, cause the TV works in 60hz, not 120hz like a LCD display, but it's the mandatory mode for 3Dvision displays. So, if you compare FP 1080p24hz vs FS 1080p60hz, FS is far superior cause it's 60hz vs 24hz so gameplay is smoother and 24fps vs 30fps, no more laggy and sluggish gameplay and 30fps is used for most console games, so it's much more playable than 24fps. 3DTV Play's Frame Packing doesn't stand a chance for 3D gaming compared to 3Dvision's checkerboard and frame sequential.
Nvidia only tested Panasonic 3D TVs, so they never knew Samsung's 3D TVs would support CB and also FS. That's why they created 3DTV Play. But if you own a Samsung instead, you dont need 3DTV Play, cause we can use and adapt our Samsung 3D TVs to work with a much better 3D gaming solution known as 3D Vision.
And you also can choose CB that looks almost the same as FS, but it's 60fps per eye. And believe me, I've played enough with 3DTV Play to know what I'm saying. CB 1080p60hz in PC mode looks better than FP 1080p24hz cause it works in PC mode instad of video mode like and besides FP is full resolution per eye really doesn't make such a difference compared t half resolution per eye, it's really video vs PC mode that does. So, saying that FP 720p60hz looks better than CB 1080p60hz is ridiculous, whoever says that has never tried CB before, You must see to believe. Don't try IZ3D and Tridef CB, try Nvidia CB and FS. Much more games compatible.
You have to try this out and see for yourself, but you must own a 3D Ready Samsung Plasma/LED TV, cause Sony and Panasonic don't support 3Dvision's Checkerboard and Frame Sequential.
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I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
[/quote]
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast.
I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.
I will mention again that turning Sharpness way down (below 20) is important on these TVs and especially in 3D.
If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.
If you want to play a slow-moving game in 2D (an RPG like Dragon Age 2 or The Witcher 2, for example) then switch your tv to a normal television mode and turn ON all the video processing goodies. This will add some milliseconds of lag to your game, but you won't really notice it. But it will make everything run silky smooth and just look much better.
Could Nvidia please at least disable the warning message in 3D Vision, or put a 30 second timer on it?? My understanding is that this would allow people to use 3D Vision at least without any hardware hacks? I only started looking at all this in March. But it is a little ridiculous that people have had to jump through all these hoops to get the most out of your great product. Adding support might be too much of a hassle, but removing a warning message is extremely simple and requires no quality testing. And if simplicity is the goal for 3D TV Play, then leave all the advanced settings in an .ini file for advanced users to play with. Normal customers will never see them or even know they are there, but your more technical customers can tweak everything to run any way they want. They could set 3D modes, force the signal no matter what tv it detects, disable all warning messages, whatever. You have people spending time on supporting individual makes/models of TVs, instead of just providing one customizable support option for everyone to enjoy. Your customers can support each other this way without having to resort to ridiculous hardware and software hacks. And people like us will finally leave you alone. Pretty Please?? :)
I was amazed how well checkerboard 3D graphics looked compared to frame packing but the colors felt really opaque and lifeless. I started to mess around with Samsung picture options to correct this color issue. All I need to do was set Dynamic contrast to high and the colors were perfect, no opaque looking anymore.
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast.
I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.
I will mention again that turning Sharpness way down (below 20) is important on these TVs and especially in 3D.
If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.
If you want to play a slow-moving game in 2D (an RPG like Dragon Age 2 or The Witcher 2, for example) then switch your tv to a normal television mode and turn ON all the video processing goodies. This will add some milliseconds of lag to your game, but you won't really notice it. But it will make everything run silky smooth and just look much better.
Could Nvidia please at least disable the warning message in 3D Vision, or put a 30 second timer on it?? My understanding is that this would allow people to use 3D Vision at least without any hardware hacks? I only started looking at all this in March. But it is a little ridiculous that people have had to jump through all these hoops to get the most out of your great product. Adding support might be too much of a hassle, but removing a warning message is extremely simple and requires no quality testing. And if simplicity is the goal for 3D TV Play, then leave all the advanced settings in an .ini file for advanced users to play with. Normal customers will never see them or even know they are there, but your more technical customers can tweak everything to run any way they want. They could set 3D modes, force the signal no matter what tv it detects, disable all warning messages, whatever. You have people spending time on supporting individual makes/models of TVs, instead of just providing one customizable support option for everyone to enjoy. Your customers can support each other this way without having to resort to ridiculous hardware and software hacks. And people like us will finally leave you alone. Pretty Please?? :)
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast. [/quote]
Seems the 2010 Samsungs and 2011 have differences. The 2010 Plasmas that francomg and I own have 'dynamic contrast' under picture > advanced settings, choices are off/low/norm/high. However, 'advanced settings' is greyed out if menu > mode is 'dynamic', so 'standard' or 'movie' must be choosen.
[quote]I don't know if "opaque" is the word you are looking for. But with less contrast, you get more of a "washed-out" kinda look where darks aren't as dark and lights aren't as light. The basic "Color" setting is also disabled, which is the way you would make colors bolder and more saturated. I think it is these two settings which make the biggest difference. I had to turn regular "Contrast" way up and brightness considerably down to get ok results in PC Mode. There may be other ways to adjust the few settings which are enabled in PC mode to still get better results. I haven't really played with it that much. But it seems most videophiles hate Dynamic Contrast anyway. I personally like it for watching movies/television. So I dunno.[/quote]
Depending on the settings, the colors may or may not be slightly 'washed out' just as you say. But the overall quality is so vastly superior to god-awful framepacking even the washed out settings don't bother me in the slightest. Now I find that francomg's setting completely change that, the colors are so brilliant and pop that I can't image they could be improved upon. Best of all, the increased colors don't cause all the ugly artifacts of framepacking induced Video mode. For me, the menu > picture > picture options > HDMI levels is the key. Changing it from 'normal' to 'low' makes all the difference, that's what makes the colors pop. I'm still experimenting but it seems different games like different settings, and personal preference is the main factor.
[quote]If you want to play a fast-moving game in 2D (a shooter like Call of Duty, for example) then switch your tv to Game Mode and adjust settings to your liking.[/quote]
What is game mode, I don't see it anywhere?
In 2011 Samsung LED LCD TVs, all Advanced Settings options are disabled in PC mode. This includes Dynamic Contrast.
Seems the 2010 Samsungs and 2011 have differences. The 2010 Plasmas that francomg and I own have 'dynamic contrast' under picture > advanced settings, choices are off/low/norm/high. However, 'advanced settings' is greyed out if menu > mode is 'dynamic', so 'standard' or 'movie' must be choosen.
Depending on the settings, the colors may or may not be slightly 'washed out' just as you say. But the overall quality is so vastly superior to god-awful framepacking even the washed out settings don't bother me in the slightest. Now I find that francomg's setting completely change that, the colors are so brilliant and pop that I can't image they could be improved upon. Best of all, the increased colors don't cause all the ugly artifacts of framepacking induced Video mode. For me, the menu > picture > picture options > HDMI levels is the key. Changing it from 'normal' to 'low' makes all the difference, that's what makes the colors pop. I'm still experimenting but it seems different games like different settings, and personal preference is the main factor.
What is game mode, I don't see it anywhere?