9 Months with 3D Vision and thinking about perspectives
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Hey Community,
first of all I have to say sorry because of my English skills. English isn´t my mother tongue, but I´ll try my best, please be patient.
I started playing computer games with Atari and co. 20 years ago ... you guess right, I´m a gaming oldie.
Last year I decided to explore a new gaming dimension and orderd my first 3D Vision monitor (Acer 245).
Informations about 3D Vision in german spoken forums are very rare, so I started a discussion thread about my 3D Vision experiences. I called it "Nvidia 3D Vision - real 3D? - gimmick or gamers future?"
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1098113
At this point I can`t imagine to step back to boring 2D gaming. I tested about 100 games @ 3D Vision and I´m still flashed about this way of playing computer games.
Step by Step I upgraded my Sys from GTX480 SLI --> GTX 670 SLI, 775 socket to Xeon 1230 V2 and Acer 245 --> Asus VG278H.
Buddies of mine checked my SYS and also decided to switch to next gaming dimension with 3D Vision.
So back to my thoughts an the thread headline "gimmick or gamers future".
In german spoken Forums 3D Vision isn`t that popular. Most of the boardies call it a senseless gimmick.
1. Is there a difference between us an other gaming communities?
2. How will 3D Vision evolve in near future and is there a context to Next Gen Consoles and 3D?
(3D support at my PS3 and XBOX 360 was very deficient)
3. Are there modding possibilities of 3D Vision @DX 11 in near future (Assassins Creed III, Bioshock Infinite, ...)?
4. Let me focus on Oculus Rift. Will this be next Gen 3D Vision and 3D Vision gets buried?
5. I thought about upgrading to 3D Vision sorround after testing this on a buddies setup (3*VG 278HE @ GTX 690) ... but dead end thoughts about 3D Vision make me contemplative. Are developers supporting 3D Vision in the future? ... or will it ever be a gimmick for some nerds who pray to the lord for modding community like Helix and eqzitara?
A lot of questions by myself, I hope you could follow my explanations.
It would be great to share some aspects with you,
greetings from Austria (Europe), ronrebell.
first of all I have to say sorry because of my English skills. English isn´t my mother tongue, but I´ll try my best, please be patient.
I started playing computer games with Atari and co. 20 years ago ... you guess right, I´m a gaming oldie.
Last year I decided to explore a new gaming dimension and orderd my first 3D Vision monitor (Acer 245).
Informations about 3D Vision in german spoken forums are very rare, so I started a discussion thread about my 3D Vision experiences. I called it "Nvidia 3D Vision - real 3D? - gimmick or gamers future?"
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1098113
At this point I can`t imagine to step back to boring 2D gaming. I tested about 100 games @ 3D Vision and I´m still flashed about this way of playing computer games.
Step by Step I upgraded my Sys from GTX480 SLI --> GTX 670 SLI, 775 socket to Xeon 1230 V2 and Acer 245 --> Asus VG278H.
Buddies of mine checked my SYS and also decided to switch to next gaming dimension with 3D Vision.
So back to my thoughts an the thread headline "gimmick or gamers future".
In german spoken Forums 3D Vision isn`t that popular. Most of the boardies call it a senseless gimmick.
1. Is there a difference between us an other gaming communities?
2. How will 3D Vision evolve in near future and is there a context to Next Gen Consoles and 3D?
(3D support at my PS3 and XBOX 360 was very deficient)
3. Are there modding possibilities of 3D Vision @DX 11 in near future (Assassins Creed III, Bioshock Infinite, ...)?
4. Let me focus on Oculus Rift. Will this be next Gen 3D Vision and 3D Vision gets buried?
5. I thought about upgrading to 3D Vision sorround after testing this on a buddies setup (3*VG 278HE @ GTX 690) ... but dead end thoughts about 3D Vision make me contemplative. Are developers supporting 3D Vision in the future? ... or will it ever be a gimmick for some nerds who pray to the lord for modding community like Helix and eqzitara?
A lot of questions by myself, I hope you could follow my explanations.
It would be great to share some aspects with you,
You've played 3D, so you know it's better. Your buddies saw 3D, so they know it's better.
Most people on the internet haven't seen 3D Vision, so they call it a gimmick. Many people choose to not like things they don't have. It's human nature. That's why people call 3D a gimmick, and why the console wars (PS3 vs Xbox 360) exist. People like to think the thing they don't have is either terrible or unnecessary. It has nothing to do with actual quality.
So generally, I don't worry about 3D. It's not perfect, but it is better than 2D. People will eventually like it.
You've played 3D, so you know it's better. Your buddies saw 3D, so they know it's better.
Most people on the internet haven't seen 3D Vision, so they call it a gimmick. Many people choose to not like things they don't have. It's human nature. That's why people call 3D a gimmick, and why the console wars (PS3 vs Xbox 360) exist. People like to think the thing they don't have is either terrible or unnecessary. It has nothing to do with actual quality.
So generally, I don't worry about 3D. It's not perfect, but it is better than 2D. People will eventually like it.
Too many people are too willing to follow the "bandwagon" arguments against 3D on all forums, specially when they have had a poor cinema experience, or have never even seen 3D content before. Its easier to poke fun at 3D fans asking for support than to think about how good it might look, and if you would be interest in switching to 3D as well. They love to say "tough shit" rather than support our requests.
If one of their friends showed them a 3D game they would be blown away by it, just like we all were.
There is no denying 3D is better than 2D, its just a fact - but for many people it will never happen because they believe the hype about headaches, glasses, gimmics and eyestrain. And the fact that 3D is not demoed properly anywhere really hurts the format. The only widespread mass market 3D available is the cinema, and this is some of the worst that 3D has to offer.
Whilst we face these problems 3D will always be the minority format. We also have the problem that NVidia are not supporting or pushing 3D Vision in any meaningful way, Sony have pretty much given up on 3D too, and a lot of TV manufacturers appear to be saying 3D popularity is dropping.
Oculus Rift may change peoples perception of this a bit, but that's a harder sell because you go from wearing glasses to a big headset. As it uses a SBS renderer, I don't know if this will translate into OR supported games natively supporting 3D Vision, but we can always hope.
I think we need to wait for Helix to say something about DX10 and 11 modding, or we have to hope NVidia start supporting their product again.
I don't see OR completely replacing 3D Vision, however the fact it will be getting some direct dev support because of the high profile kick starter campaign. The fact that the OR is it's own display device, and may just need someone to have a powerful enough gfx card could make it way more convenient than having to maybe switch from ATI to NVidia and buy a new monitor.
I would be cautious about getting 3D Vision Surround if you are at all interested in the Oculus Rift, its a lot of money to spend, but if you have enough existing games that look better than way, then it should look amazing.
Too many people are too willing to follow the "bandwagon" arguments against 3D on all forums, specially when they have had a poor cinema experience, or have never even seen 3D content before. Its easier to poke fun at 3D fans asking for support than to think about how good it might look, and if you would be interest in switching to 3D as well. They love to say "tough shit" rather than support our requests.
If one of their friends showed them a 3D game they would be blown away by it, just like we all were.
There is no denying 3D is better than 2D, its just a fact - but for many people it will never happen because they believe the hype about headaches, glasses, gimmics and eyestrain. And the fact that 3D is not demoed properly anywhere really hurts the format. The only widespread mass market 3D available is the cinema, and this is some of the worst that 3D has to offer.
Whilst we face these problems 3D will always be the minority format. We also have the problem that NVidia are not supporting or pushing 3D Vision in any meaningful way, Sony have pretty much given up on 3D too, and a lot of TV manufacturers appear to be saying 3D popularity is dropping.
Oculus Rift may change peoples perception of this a bit, but that's a harder sell because you go from wearing glasses to a big headset. As it uses a SBS renderer, I don't know if this will translate into OR supported games natively supporting 3D Vision, but we can always hope.
I think we need to wait for Helix to say something about DX10 and 11 modding, or we have to hope NVidia start supporting their product again.
I don't see OR completely replacing 3D Vision, however the fact it will be getting some direct dev support because of the high profile kick starter campaign. The fact that the OR is it's own display device, and may just need someone to have a powerful enough gfx card could make it way more convenient than having to maybe switch from ATI to NVidia and buy a new monitor.
I would be cautious about getting 3D Vision Surround if you are at all interested in the Oculus Rift, its a lot of money to spend, but if you have enough existing games that look better than way, then it should look amazing.
[quote="ronrebell"]
5. I thought about upgrading to 3D Vision sorround after testing this on a buddies setup (3*VG 278HE @ GTX 690) ... but dead end thoughts about 3D Vision make me contemplative.
[/quote]
I've been gaming 3D surround for couple of years now, and it's THE way to game for me. however, since you're not right now, I'd suggest that you wait a while to get a clearer picture of the 3D Surround compatibility of future DX10/11 titles.
take recent games for examples: AC3 perfect 2D surround, but no 3D vision; Bioshock Infinite has flaws in 2D surround (big ugly shoulders on side screens~~"), and no 3D vision (Both you can do AMD 3D eyefinity though). Metro Last Light is a Nvidia TWINTBP title, 3D Surround Ready, but from what I gather, you probably need at least 680 4G version SLI (Titan SLI might be for certain) to play the game beyond medium setting.
ronrebell said:
5. I thought about upgrading to 3D Vision sorround after testing this on a buddies setup (3*VG 278HE @ GTX 690) ... but dead end thoughts about 3D Vision make me contemplative.
I've been gaming 3D surround for couple of years now, and it's THE way to game for me. however, since you're not right now, I'd suggest that you wait a while to get a clearer picture of the 3D Surround compatibility of future DX10/11 titles.
take recent games for examples: AC3 perfect 2D surround, but no 3D vision; Bioshock Infinite has flaws in 2D surround (big ugly shoulders on side screens~~"), and no 3D vision (Both you can do AMD 3D eyefinity though). Metro Last Light is a Nvidia TWINTBP title, 3D Surround Ready, but from what I gather, you probably need at least 680 4G version SLI (Titan SLI might be for certain) to play the game beyond medium setting.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Not quite, you can definitely play it on medium on a single 660 - though two would be preferable.[/quote]
3D surround @ 6100x1080...a single 660 I don't think so.
I love gaming in 3D, and just shake my head when people claim "it sucks" or "it's just a gimmick". I've been gaming for a long time as well, and can enjoy 2D gaming just fine. But the thing about 3D is, I find I have a huge smile on my face the entire time I'm playing a game. That just doesn't happen in 2D!
The Oculus Rift looks pretty cool. But I'm not sure 3D haters will really like that any better. The people who can't stand wearing simple shutter glasses will certainly balk at wearing an HMD, IMO. Wouldn't want to be inconvenienced in any way for a supremely immersive gaming experience, would we?
I love gaming in 3D, and just shake my head when people claim "it sucks" or "it's just a gimmick". I've been gaming for a long time as well, and can enjoy 2D gaming just fine. But the thing about 3D is, I find I have a huge smile on my face the entire time I'm playing a game. That just doesn't happen in 2D!
The Oculus Rift looks pretty cool. But I'm not sure 3D haters will really like that any better. The people who can't stand wearing simple shutter glasses will certainly balk at wearing an HMD, IMO. Wouldn't want to be inconvenienced in any way for a supremely immersive gaming experience, would we?
When something's genuinely much better, it usually survives. PC gaming itself is an example. It's tangibly better than consoles (the hardware's stronger, it's more customisable, there's more choice with peripherals, there are mods, etc.), so it keeps surviving. It doesn't thrive as much as the consoles and handhelds, but it thrives nonetheless.
3D is even more niche of course, but it's even more demonstrably superior. It may remain niche for 10 more years, but I'm sure there'll always be enough users, devs, and modders to keep it thriving in its own modest way.
As for the Occulus Rift, I think that will be an adrenaline shot in the arm of the industry and will help 3D become more widely accepted.
When something's genuinely much better, it usually survives. PC gaming itself is an example. It's tangibly better than consoles (the hardware's stronger, it's more customisable, there's more choice with peripherals, there are mods, etc.), so it keeps surviving. It doesn't thrive as much as the consoles and handhelds, but it thrives nonetheless.
3D is even more niche of course, but it's even more demonstrably superior. It may remain niche for 10 more years, but I'm sure there'll always be enough users, devs, and modders to keep it thriving in its own modest way.
As for the Occulus Rift, I think that will be an adrenaline shot in the arm of the industry and will help 3D become more widely accepted.
1. Definetly more mature on average.
2. I highly doubt future consoles will support 3D. People are rumoring stuff with new xbox but I doubt it.
3. Only Helix knows and he said he was working on something but to what degree I have no idea. I've said it before though, It wouldnt surprise me if no one but Helix is capable of fixing games in DX11 which means less games regardless.
4. At this time I wouldnt worry about Oculus Rift, it may be the future down the line but as of now I dont think so. I think it will be awesome to own but majority of gaming will be with it off. Its a system for "experiences" not library.
5. I wouldn't. Sounds like a downer but who knows what will happen in future. Your literally doubling your cost of system then upkeep mean upgrading more often. Not to mention tripling monitors. I mean I do my share of helix modding but am I particullarly skilled? No, not really... I have a certain dedication to detail though. So you'd literally be putting all your eggs in the helix basket.
I honestly see the Rift as PS3 exclusive titles. Like Uncharted, Killzone, etc and ignore all titles on multiple platforms. There will be a few titles making it worth your purchase but I dont think at this time its the future of 3D gaming let alone gaming. Its MUCH harder to support oculus rift then 3D vision. Like we are all bitching about 3d vision support[as we should]. But oculus rift will need something twice as good because its got all kind of additional variables. And there are developers who tried to support 3D vision and literally screwed up to the point where its still unplayable or actually made it worse. Its gonna take passion for developers to develope for. Im not even convinced it will be profitable in many cases for a developer to implement. I highly doubt there will come a time that the Rift will sponsor a developer like Nvidia can with 3D vision. The only reason I think Valve is jumping through hoops is because of its spotlight/store front.
3D vision support mainly as of now is Helix / Helix mod community. Its a sad fact, now outside of that we have games that are innately compatible like no developers had to do anything. Then we have 3d vision "supported games". VERY RARELY will a developer support 3d vision without being sponsored by Nvidia. Now when a game gets sponsored we generally get some improvement in 3D support[If they dont mess it up or be lazy]. So I dunno about future, Nvidia really needs to start sponsoring games again and hopefully enforce a bit of qualitity control. It seems like 2/3 of major games are going amd route.
1. Definetly more mature on average.
2. I highly doubt future consoles will support 3D. People are rumoring stuff with new xbox but I doubt it.
3. Only Helix knows and he said he was working on something but to what degree I have no idea. I've said it before though, It wouldnt surprise me if no one but Helix is capable of fixing games in DX11 which means less games regardless.
4. At this time I wouldnt worry about Oculus Rift, it may be the future down the line but as of now I dont think so. I think it will be awesome to own but majority of gaming will be with it off. Its a system for "experiences" not library.
5. I wouldn't. Sounds like a downer but who knows what will happen in future. Your literally doubling your cost of system then upkeep mean upgrading more often. Not to mention tripling monitors. I mean I do my share of helix modding but am I particullarly skilled? No, not really... I have a certain dedication to detail though. So you'd literally be putting all your eggs in the helix basket.
I honestly see the Rift as PS3 exclusive titles. Like Uncharted, Killzone, etc and ignore all titles on multiple platforms. There will be a few titles making it worth your purchase but I dont think at this time its the future of 3D gaming let alone gaming. Its MUCH harder to support oculus rift then 3D vision. Like we are all bitching about 3d vision support[as we should]. But oculus rift will need something twice as good because its got all kind of additional variables. And there are developers who tried to support 3D vision and literally screwed up to the point where its still unplayable or actually made it worse. Its gonna take passion for developers to develope for. Im not even convinced it will be profitable in many cases for a developer to implement. I highly doubt there will come a time that the Rift will sponsor a developer like Nvidia can with 3D vision. The only reason I think Valve is jumping through hoops is because of its spotlight/store front.
3D vision support mainly as of now is Helix / Helix mod community. Its a sad fact, now outside of that we have games that are innately compatible like no developers had to do anything. Then we have 3d vision "supported games". VERY RARELY will a developer support 3d vision without being sponsored by Nvidia. Now when a game gets sponsored we generally get some improvement in 3D support[If they dont mess it up or be lazy]. So I dunno about future, Nvidia really needs to start sponsoring games again and hopefully enforce a bit of qualitity control. It seems like 2/3 of major games are going amd route.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
It took me quite a while to convince my mates to even try playing games in 3D on a dedicated monitor. Once they had tried it they were blown away although not quite enough to go out and actually spend the £££'s to buy their own setup.
I think it is still a niche product and not everybody can be bothered to justify the cost of a 3D monitor and the glasses. My friends still say for the vast majority of their games they prefer playing them at 2560 x 1600 rather than 1920 x 1080 and whilst 3D is great when it works they can count on one hand the games they might actually try it in.
If you have the money to own both a nice high res monitor and a 3D monitor then great.....but for a lot of people for whom can only justify the expense of one I can see why they tend to opt for the 2560 x 1600 monitor. I'm still sticking with 3D as I really love it but I do appear to be in the minority.
It took me quite a while to convince my mates to even try playing games in 3D on a dedicated monitor. Once they had tried it they were blown away although not quite enough to go out and actually spend the £££'s to buy their own setup.
I think it is still a niche product and not everybody can be bothered to justify the cost of a 3D monitor and the glasses. My friends still say for the vast majority of their games they prefer playing them at 2560 x 1600 rather than 1920 x 1080 and whilst 3D is great when it works they can count on one hand the games they might actually try it in.
If you have the money to own both a nice high res monitor and a 3D monitor then great.....but for a lot of people for whom can only justify the expense of one I can see why they tend to opt for the 2560 x 1600 monitor. I'm still sticking with 3D as I really love it but I do appear to be in the minority.
CPU: Intel 3960X - Watercooled @ 4.6ghz
Motherboard: Asus ROG Rampage IV Extreme
Memory: 16GB 4x4GB GT Dominator @ 2133mhz
Storage: 120GB Corsair Force SSD; 120GB Kingston Hyper 3K SSD; 2 x 512GB Crucial M4 SSD's & 1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK
Graphics Card(s): 2 x EVGA Hydrocopper 780GTX - Watercooled (SLI)
Sound: Asus Xonar D2X Ultra
PSU: CAIR 1000W CMPSU-1000HXUK
Case: CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 800D
Operating System: Windows 7 64bit Home Premium
Monitor(s): Asus VG278HE @ 144hz
[quote="DrHarvey12"]
If you have the money to own both a nice high res monitor and a 3D monitor then great.....but for a lot of people for whom can only justify the expense of one I can see why they tend to opt for the 2560 x 1600 monitor.
[/quote]
this sounds reasonable...however, if some people can afford 2560x1600 gaming, I reckon they probably are capable of adding a 3D solution down the line.
currently I myself have a 2560x1600 system and a 3D Surround setup. the single 30" screen is mostly for strategy games now (cannot play them Surround, and too busy visually in 3D for me) and games that aren't 3D surround compatible.
If you have the money to own both a nice high res monitor and a 3D monitor then great.....but for a lot of people for whom can only justify the expense of one I can see why they tend to opt for the 2560 x 1600 monitor.
this sounds reasonable...however, if some people can afford 2560x1600 gaming, I reckon they probably are capable of adding a 3D solution down the line.
currently I myself have a 2560x1600 system and a 3D Surround setup. the single 30" screen is mostly for strategy games now (cannot play them Surround, and too busy visually in 3D for me) and games that aren't 3D surround compatible.
Hey guys, thx for sharing your aspects with me!
You´re right, once they haven´t seen 3D Vision call it a gimmick or senseless, but once seen it for just a minute call it awesome. But it´s a problem to do first 3D Vision steps. In eurpean computermagazines or forums 3D Vision publicity is ashaming rare. I´d bet most of the gaming magazine journalists have no idea how 3D Vision feels to be played. No 3D Vison experience --> no commentatorship --> niche product.
I´d call myself curios. So I asked a buddie to attend a computer mass to get first 3D Vision contact before spending a lot of money for unknown technique. Before starting our trip we decided to stay home. Maybe we felt a little bit to old to stand in a row of 14 years old kids ...
By the way ... a few days later I order my first 3D Vision Acer 245 monitor. At this time there was no way back for me to simple 2D gaming dimension.
Maybe you´re right about waiting ordering 3D Vision sorround, but testing this at my buddies home, I felt like being triple flashed ;-) ... but let me tell you something (maybe new for you?) about Oculus Rift:
A well known german computer magazine called gamestar published an article about Oculus Rift experiences. I don´t know about your german skills, maybe they´re better then my english once, but have a try:
http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/tft-monitore/oculus-rift/oculus_rift_angespielt,584,3012277.html
In Bremen, Germany there´s a company called Animation Labs. Mastermind Ralf Ostertag developed a software called VorpX, which uses a extremly economical way of 3D implemetation. Compared to 2D gaming it costs only 10% performance, not that 50% 3D Vision frame minus. Furthermore DX 10 and 11 support is included.
The journalist tested different games like Skyrim, Crysis 3 or Bioshock Infinite an was really flashed.
You won´t believe, but the testing setup was "powered" by an old GTX 560 Ti ;-).
Ok, resolution isn´t that high with this OR Dev Kit, but this is really astonishing, isn´t it?
Thinking about consoles next gen and 3D i´m still doubtful and think you´re right. Maybe my console trip ends with PS3 and XBOX 360. I don´t know if exclusive titles are that worth for me to disclaim my flashing 3D experience.
You´re right, once they haven´t seen 3D Vision call it a gimmick or senseless, but once seen it for just a minute call it awesome. But it´s a problem to do first 3D Vision steps. In eurpean computermagazines or forums 3D Vision publicity is ashaming rare. I´d bet most of the gaming magazine journalists have no idea how 3D Vision feels to be played. No 3D Vison experience --> no commentatorship --> niche product.
I´d call myself curios. So I asked a buddie to attend a computer mass to get first 3D Vision contact before spending a lot of money for unknown technique. Before starting our trip we decided to stay home. Maybe we felt a little bit to old to stand in a row of 14 years old kids ...
By the way ... a few days later I order my first 3D Vision Acer 245 monitor. At this time there was no way back for me to simple 2D gaming dimension.
Maybe you´re right about waiting ordering 3D Vision sorround, but testing this at my buddies home, I felt like being triple flashed ;-) ... but let me tell you something (maybe new for you?) about Oculus Rift:
In Bremen, Germany there´s a company called Animation Labs. Mastermind Ralf Ostertag developed a software called VorpX, which uses a extremly economical way of 3D implemetation. Compared to 2D gaming it costs only 10% performance, not that 50% 3D Vision frame minus. Furthermore DX 10 and 11 support is included.
The journalist tested different games like Skyrim, Crysis 3 or Bioshock Infinite an was really flashed.
You won´t believe, but the testing setup was "powered" by an old GTX 560 Ti ;-).
Ok, resolution isn´t that high with this OR Dev Kit, but this is really astonishing, isn´t it?
Thinking about consoles next gen and 3D i´m still doubtful and think you´re right. Maybe my console trip ends with PS3 and XBOX 360. I don´t know if exclusive titles are that worth for me to disclaim my flashing 3D experience.
It uses depth buffer. Im not saying its bad, but its worse then 3d vision. Its like in between 3d vision/ crysis 2/3 3d. Much closer to crysis then 3d vision. If headtracking/fov/ etc will make up for its downfalls? Whose to say.
TBH though Ive heard same kind of feedback about the vireio. And most people who know about 3D and have OR are saying it could be great down the line but right now its not really usable.
Sitting with something for a few minutes especially when its new technology creates "Exaggerated" feedback based on first impressions. It always happens, look at the wii for example. We have TONS of threads where new users will start a thread when a new game comes out and they will say this game is "awesome" in 3d. Then we are stuck with that thread. I think we have one of them up right now for Splinter Cell.
It uses depth buffer. Im not saying its bad, but its worse then 3d vision. Its like in between 3d vision/ crysis 2/3 3d. Much closer to crysis then 3d vision. If headtracking/fov/ etc will make up for its downfalls? Whose to say.
TBH though Ive heard same kind of feedback about the vireio. And most people who know about 3D and have OR are saying it could be great down the line but right now its not really usable.
Sitting with something for a few minutes especially when its new technology creates "Exaggerated" feedback based on first impressions. It always happens, look at the wii for example. We have TONS of threads where new users will start a thread when a new game comes out and they will say this game is "awesome" in 3d. Then we are stuck with that thread. I think we have one of them up right now for Splinter Cell.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
You`re right, it uses depth buffer, but you can always switch with this developed software between depth buffer and real 3D Vision. The tester commented this and of course it was stottering after switching to real 3D Vision Mode (GTX 560Ti).
You`re right, it uses depth buffer, but you can always switch with this developed software between depth buffer and real 3D Vision. The tester commented this and of course it was stottering after switching to real 3D Vision Mode (GTX 560Ti).
first of all I have to say sorry because of my English skills. English isn´t my mother tongue, but I´ll try my best, please be patient.
I started playing computer games with Atari and co. 20 years ago ... you guess right, I´m a gaming oldie.
Last year I decided to explore a new gaming dimension and orderd my first 3D Vision monitor (Acer 245).
Informations about 3D Vision in german spoken forums are very rare, so I started a discussion thread about my 3D Vision experiences. I called it "Nvidia 3D Vision - real 3D? - gimmick or gamers future?"
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1098113
At this point I can`t imagine to step back to boring 2D gaming. I tested about 100 games @ 3D Vision and I´m still flashed about this way of playing computer games.
Step by Step I upgraded my Sys from GTX480 SLI --> GTX 670 SLI, 775 socket to Xeon 1230 V2 and Acer 245 --> Asus VG278H.
Buddies of mine checked my SYS and also decided to switch to next gaming dimension with 3D Vision.
So back to my thoughts an the thread headline "gimmick or gamers future".
In german spoken Forums 3D Vision isn`t that popular. Most of the boardies call it a senseless gimmick.
1. Is there a difference between us an other gaming communities?
2. How will 3D Vision evolve in near future and is there a context to Next Gen Consoles and 3D?
(3D support at my PS3 and XBOX 360 was very deficient)
3. Are there modding possibilities of 3D Vision @DX 11 in near future (Assassins Creed III, Bioshock Infinite, ...)?
4. Let me focus on Oculus Rift. Will this be next Gen 3D Vision and 3D Vision gets buried?
5. I thought about upgrading to 3D Vision sorround after testing this on a buddies setup (3*VG 278HE @ GTX 690) ... but dead end thoughts about 3D Vision make me contemplative. Are developers supporting 3D Vision in the future? ... or will it ever be a gimmick for some nerds who pray to the lord for modding community like Helix and eqzitara?
A lot of questions by myself, I hope you could follow my explanations.
It would be great to share some aspects with you,
greetings from Austria (Europe), ronrebell.
System: http://www.sysprofile.de/id159419
Nvidia 3D Vision - Virtual Reality - 3D Gaming:
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1546633
Most people on the internet haven't seen 3D Vision, so they call it a gimmick. Many people choose to not like things they don't have. It's human nature. That's why people call 3D a gimmick, and why the console wars (PS3 vs Xbox 360) exist. People like to think the thing they don't have is either terrible or unnecessary. It has nothing to do with actual quality.
So generally, I don't worry about 3D. It's not perfect, but it is better than 2D. People will eventually like it.
If one of their friends showed them a 3D game they would be blown away by it, just like we all were.
There is no denying 3D is better than 2D, its just a fact - but for many people it will never happen because they believe the hype about headaches, glasses, gimmics and eyestrain. And the fact that 3D is not demoed properly anywhere really hurts the format. The only widespread mass market 3D available is the cinema, and this is some of the worst that 3D has to offer.
Whilst we face these problems 3D will always be the minority format. We also have the problem that NVidia are not supporting or pushing 3D Vision in any meaningful way, Sony have pretty much given up on 3D too, and a lot of TV manufacturers appear to be saying 3D popularity is dropping.
Oculus Rift may change peoples perception of this a bit, but that's a harder sell because you go from wearing glasses to a big headset. As it uses a SBS renderer, I don't know if this will translate into OR supported games natively supporting 3D Vision, but we can always hope.
I think we need to wait for Helix to say something about DX10 and 11 modding, or we have to hope NVidia start supporting their product again.
I don't see OR completely replacing 3D Vision, however the fact it will be getting some direct dev support because of the high profile kick starter campaign. The fact that the OR is it's own display device, and may just need someone to have a powerful enough gfx card could make it way more convenient than having to maybe switch from ATI to NVidia and buy a new monitor.
I would be cautious about getting 3D Vision Surround if you are at all interested in the Oculus Rift, its a lot of money to spend, but if you have enough existing games that look better than way, then it should look amazing.
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I've been gaming 3D surround for couple of years now, and it's THE way to game for me. however, since you're not right now, I'd suggest that you wait a while to get a clearer picture of the 3D Surround compatibility of future DX10/11 titles.
take recent games for examples: AC3 perfect 2D surround, but no 3D vision; Bioshock Infinite has flaws in 2D surround (big ugly shoulders on side screens~~"), and no 3D vision (Both you can do AMD 3D eyefinity though). Metro Last Light is a Nvidia TWINTBP title, 3D Surround Ready, but from what I gather, you probably need at least 680 4G version SLI (Titan SLI might be for certain) to play the game beyond medium setting.
epenny size =/= nerdiness
3D surround @ 6100x1080...a single 660 I don't think so.
epenny size =/= nerdiness
The Oculus Rift looks pretty cool. But I'm not sure 3D haters will really like that any better. The people who can't stand wearing simple shutter glasses will certainly balk at wearing an HMD, IMO. Wouldn't want to be inconvenienced in any way for a supremely immersive gaming experience, would we?
3D is even more niche of course, but it's even more demonstrably superior. It may remain niche for 10 more years, but I'm sure there'll always be enough users, devs, and modders to keep it thriving in its own modest way.
As for the Occulus Rift, I think that will be an adrenaline shot in the arm of the industry and will help 3D become more widely accepted.
2. I highly doubt future consoles will support 3D. People are rumoring stuff with new xbox but I doubt it.
3. Only Helix knows and he said he was working on something but to what degree I have no idea. I've said it before though, It wouldnt surprise me if no one but Helix is capable of fixing games in DX11 which means less games regardless.
4. At this time I wouldnt worry about Oculus Rift, it may be the future down the line but as of now I dont think so. I think it will be awesome to own but majority of gaming will be with it off. Its a system for "experiences" not library.
5. I wouldn't. Sounds like a downer but who knows what will happen in future. Your literally doubling your cost of system then upkeep mean upgrading more often. Not to mention tripling monitors. I mean I do my share of helix modding but am I particullarly skilled? No, not really... I have a certain dedication to detail though. So you'd literally be putting all your eggs in the helix basket.
I honestly see the Rift as PS3 exclusive titles. Like Uncharted, Killzone, etc and ignore all titles on multiple platforms. There will be a few titles making it worth your purchase but I dont think at this time its the future of 3D gaming let alone gaming. Its MUCH harder to support oculus rift then 3D vision. Like we are all bitching about 3d vision support[as we should]. But oculus rift will need something twice as good because its got all kind of additional variables. And there are developers who tried to support 3D vision and literally screwed up to the point where its still unplayable or actually made it worse. Its gonna take passion for developers to develope for. Im not even convinced it will be profitable in many cases for a developer to implement. I highly doubt there will come a time that the Rift will sponsor a developer like Nvidia can with 3D vision. The only reason I think Valve is jumping through hoops is because of its spotlight/store front.
3D vision support mainly as of now is Helix / Helix mod community. Its a sad fact, now outside of that we have games that are innately compatible like no developers had to do anything. Then we have 3d vision "supported games". VERY RARELY will a developer support 3d vision without being sponsored by Nvidia. Now when a game gets sponsored we generally get some improvement in 3D support[If they dont mess it up or be lazy]. So I dunno about future, Nvidia really needs to start sponsoring games again and hopefully enforce a bit of qualitity control. It seems like 2/3 of major games are going amd route.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I think it is still a niche product and not everybody can be bothered to justify the cost of a 3D monitor and the glasses. My friends still say for the vast majority of their games they prefer playing them at 2560 x 1600 rather than 1920 x 1080 and whilst 3D is great when it works they can count on one hand the games they might actually try it in.
If you have the money to own both a nice high res monitor and a 3D monitor then great.....but for a lot of people for whom can only justify the expense of one I can see why they tend to opt for the 2560 x 1600 monitor. I'm still sticking with 3D as I really love it but I do appear to be in the minority.
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this sounds reasonable...however, if some people can afford 2560x1600 gaming, I reckon they probably are capable of adding a 3D solution down the line.
currently I myself have a 2560x1600 system and a 3D Surround setup. the single 30" screen is mostly for strategy games now (cannot play them Surround, and too busy visually in 3D for me) and games that aren't 3D surround compatible.
epenny size =/= nerdiness
You´re right, once they haven´t seen 3D Vision call it a gimmick or senseless, but once seen it for just a minute call it awesome. But it´s a problem to do first 3D Vision steps. In eurpean computermagazines or forums 3D Vision publicity is ashaming rare. I´d bet most of the gaming magazine journalists have no idea how 3D Vision feels to be played. No 3D Vison experience --> no commentatorship --> niche product.
I´d call myself curios. So I asked a buddie to attend a computer mass to get first 3D Vision contact before spending a lot of money for unknown technique. Before starting our trip we decided to stay home. Maybe we felt a little bit to old to stand in a row of 14 years old kids ...
By the way ... a few days later I order my first 3D Vision Acer 245 monitor. At this time there was no way back for me to simple 2D gaming dimension.
Maybe you´re right about waiting ordering 3D Vision sorround, but testing this at my buddies home, I felt like being triple flashed ;-) ... but let me tell you something (maybe new for you?) about Oculus Rift:
A well known german computer magazine called gamestar published an article about Oculus Rift experiences. I don´t know about your german skills, maybe they´re better then my english once, but have a try:
http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/tft-monitore/oculus-rift/oculus_rift_angespielt,584,3012277.html
In Bremen, Germany there´s a company called Animation Labs. Mastermind Ralf Ostertag developed a software called VorpX, which uses a extremly economical way of 3D implemetation. Compared to 2D gaming it costs only 10% performance, not that 50% 3D Vision frame minus. Furthermore DX 10 and 11 support is included.
The journalist tested different games like Skyrim, Crysis 3 or Bioshock Infinite an was really flashed.
You won´t believe, but the testing setup was "powered" by an old GTX 560 Ti ;-).
Ok, resolution isn´t that high with this OR Dev Kit, but this is really astonishing, isn´t it?
Thinking about consoles next gen and 3D i´m still doubtful and think you´re right. Maybe my console trip ends with PS3 and XBOX 360. I don´t know if exclusive titles are that worth for me to disclaim my flashing 3D experience.
System: http://www.sysprofile.de/id159419
Nvidia 3D Vision - Virtual Reality - 3D Gaming:
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1546633
TBH though Ive heard same kind of feedback about the vireio. And most people who know about 3D and have OR are saying it could be great down the line but right now its not really usable.
Sitting with something for a few minutes especially when its new technology creates "Exaggerated" feedback based on first impressions. It always happens, look at the wii for example. We have TONS of threads where new users will start a thread when a new game comes out and they will say this game is "awesome" in 3d. Then we are stuck with that thread. I think we have one of them up right now for Splinter Cell.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
System: http://www.sysprofile.de/id159419
Nvidia 3D Vision - Virtual Reality - 3D Gaming:
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1546633