Ultra-D 3D will arrive this year at least from one major TV brand.
2 / 2
What’s the first thing I said?
They have all the gear no idea, they are resting on their laurels it seems.
You’re telling me 720p 3D gaming is the best nvidia can come up with for TV’s?
As long as they make a profit eh? Wtf has that got to do with making 3D tv tech?
Your point is totally unrelated.
The fact that they have the resources to have done this themselves, but chose not to, is even more aggravating.
I can see the 3D effect just from watching this phone camera video from CES.
They also show a battlefield trailer.
https://youtu.be/4pMXA8NCNwM
Maybe the reason why TV manufactures took 3D off their latest TV sets, is so they can resell it to us again in a year or two, using this ultra D tech.
What’s the first thing I said?
They have all the gear no idea, they are resting on their laurels it seems.
You’re telling me 720p 3D gaming is the best nvidia can come up with for TV’s?
As long as they make a profit eh? Wtf has that got to do with making 3D tv tech?
Your point is totally unrelated.
The fact that they have the resources to have done this themselves, but chose not to, is even more aggravating.
I can see the 3D effect just from watching this phone camera video from CES.
I agree with GibsonRed. Making profit and Rising stock prices has nothing to do with gaming or what gamers want.
Like most big companys they only care about Making more money. Offcourse we would not have new gpus every year from nvidia if they would not exist but its a situation noone can imagine.
I have 0 stock, not because i could not get some but because i believe being part of Something and saying ” its not me its the system,
Im just taking asvantage of it ” is as bad as doing the crime your self. If you make money with out anything physically changing you made money from air, you did not create anything with that money ,and that does not anything but creates more unequality to world.
I agree with GibsonRed. Making profit and Rising stock prices has nothing to do with gaming or what gamers want.
Like most big companys they only care about Making more money. Offcourse we would not have new gpus every year from nvidia if they would not exist but its a situation noone can imagine.
I have 0 stock, not because i could not get some but because i believe being part of Something and saying ” its not me its the system,
Im just taking asvantage of it ” is as bad as doing the crime your self. If you make money with out anything physically changing you made money from air, you did not create anything with that money ,and that does not anything but creates more unequality to world.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
GibsonRed and Metal-O-Holic@
Even in China and Rusia is money what makes the wheels turning, as much as I symphatize with your thoughts about economy in large companies, it's hardly relevant in a Ultra-D 3D thread!
I think we should discus the tech instead, just as the OP had in mind :)
Sometimes it just gets a little tiresome, with the ever ongoing crusades against just about everything and anybody who want's to earn money!
If you (the consumers) don't like a company or a product, vote with your wallets :)
Even in China and Rusia is money what makes the wheels turning, as much as I symphatize with your thoughts about economy in large companies, it's hardly relevant in a Ultra-D 3D thread!
I think we should discus the tech instead, just as the OP had in mind :)
Sometimes it just gets a little tiresome, with the ever ongoing crusades against just about everything and anybody who want's to earn money!
If you (the consumers) don't like a company or a product, vote with your wallets :)
Win7 64bit Pro
CPU: 4790K 4.8 GHZ
GPU: Aurus 1080 TI 2.08 GHZ - 100% Watercooled !
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
And lots of ram and HD's ;)
I just feel like it's a pretty poor criticism to wail on Nvidia for not giving gamers what they want. Because whether we like it or not, the average gamer doesn't want 3D. It hasn't sold much of anything. It's why it was abandoned when G-Sync took off. Gamers were willing to pay huge premiums for that. Back when high refresh monitors were being bought mostly by 3D gamers, these monitors were selling for peanuts vs today.
I just feel like it's a pretty poor criticism to wail on Nvidia for not giving gamers what they want. Because whether we like it or not, the average gamer doesn't want 3D. It hasn't sold much of anything. It's why it was abandoned when G-Sync took off. Gamers were willing to pay huge premiums for that. Back when high refresh monitors were being bought mostly by 3D gamers, these monitors were selling for peanuts vs today.
[quote="GibsonRed"]
The article mentions how they got 3D working with Xbox, PS, and WiiU, as the geometry data is already in place, but will this have the same problems as 3D vision games with broken shadows etc?
[/quote]
The technique described is called 2D + depth.
It is the exact same principle as 3D Vision's compatibility mode, or Tridef's Power3D mode, or the technique used by Reshade for 3D rendering.
When using the technique on video games, the generic term is Z-buffer 3D, or depth-map 3D.
It's been used in a few games on PC and console back when 3D was hyped.
- Crysis 2 & 3 (PC and consoles)
- Gears of war 3 (Xbox360)
- Batman Arkham City (Xbox360 version only)
It's very light on the system's resources, and it solves many shader issues, shadows particularely. But it has two major quality issues.
- occlusion (lack of information about what's behind objects one eye can see but the other can't, needs creative interpolation which is usually completely wrong) this limits the usable depth range to a very small region near the screen depth to avoid massive artefacts.
- single depth per pixel (issue when encountering semi-transparent objects such as glass, HUDs, reflections, etc...)
The technique is usually applied as a brute force algorithm on the entire picture (3D Vision compatibility mode, Tridef Power 3D mode, Reshade, Crysis 2&3) and is only used as a last resort algorithm if conventional dual-camera rendering is too problematic (artefacts, or poor performance)
But technique can be used more intelligently to produce a good enough stereo view and save rendering time.
For example, I have seen some very nice rendering when I saw the console version of Batman Arkham city at a trade show which looked super-clean (although that game was displayed with Trioviz anaglyph glasses), I could clearly see the devs chose to render the Batman character in a separate instance and avoid a major source of occlusion.
It is also an approach often discussed for VR games to increase rendering performance and hit higher framerates, but I do not know any list of titles using either the conventional technique or the Z-depth reprojection tehcnique.
GibsonRed said:
The article mentions how they got 3D working with Xbox, PS, and WiiU, as the geometry data is already in place, but will this have the same problems as 3D vision games with broken shadows etc?
The technique described is called 2D + depth.
It is the exact same principle as 3D Vision's compatibility mode, or Tridef's Power3D mode, or the technique used by Reshade for 3D rendering.
When using the technique on video games, the generic term is Z-buffer 3D, or depth-map 3D.
It's been used in a few games on PC and console back when 3D was hyped.
- Crysis 2 & 3 (PC and consoles)
- Gears of war 3 (Xbox360)
- Batman Arkham City (Xbox360 version only)
It's very light on the system's resources, and it solves many shader issues, shadows particularely. But it has two major quality issues.
- occlusion (lack of information about what's behind objects one eye can see but the other can't, needs creative interpolation which is usually completely wrong) this limits the usable depth range to a very small region near the screen depth to avoid massive artefacts.
- single depth per pixel (issue when encountering semi-transparent objects such as glass, HUDs, reflections, etc...)
The technique is usually applied as a brute force algorithm on the entire picture (3D Vision compatibility mode, Tridef Power 3D mode, Reshade, Crysis 2&3) and is only used as a last resort algorithm if conventional dual-camera rendering is too problematic (artefacts, or poor performance)
But technique can be used more intelligently to produce a good enough stereo view and save rendering time.
For example, I have seen some very nice rendering when I saw the console version of Batman Arkham city at a trade show which looked super-clean (although that game was displayed with Trioviz anaglyph glasses), I could clearly see the devs chose to render the Batman character in a separate instance and avoid a major source of occlusion.
It is also an approach often discussed for VR games to increase rendering performance and hit higher framerates, but I do not know any list of titles using either the conventional technique or the Z-depth reprojection tehcnique.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Thanks for the info. What a great in-depth explanation!
Would be about perfect timing for nvidia to release 3D Vision 2 without glasses,
They could put the tech into the BFGD and we’ll all be happy.
I tried my friends PSVR on his PS4 Pro last night and was blown away with how good it looks.
I thought it would be a step down for from the vive but it seemed brighter and less blurry around the edges.
Does the PSVR use this same Z depth buffer method or is it using ‘real’ 3D like 3D vision?
Would the game fixes for 3D vision be compatible with the 3D on this TV?
i.e could we get a higher resoltuion unofficial 3DTV by using the game fixes and this TV somehow?
Thanks for the info. What a great in-depth explanation!
Would be about perfect timing for nvidia to release 3D Vision 2 without glasses,
They could put the tech into the BFGD and we’ll all be happy.
I tried my friends PSVR on his PS4 Pro last night and was blown away with how good it looks.
I thought it would be a step down for from the vive but it seemed brighter and less blurry around the edges.
Does the PSVR use this same Z depth buffer method or is it using ‘real’ 3D like 3D vision?
Would the game fixes for 3D vision be compatible with the 3D on this TV?
i.e could we get a higher resoltuion unofficial 3DTV by using the game fixes and this TV somehow?
I know that many VR games use spatial and temporal reprojection to artificially reduce input lag and increase the framerate,
so the developers should be familiar with the algorithms (Z-buffer 3D is spatial reprojection), but I do not know if they actually use them.
This TV supposedly can convert stereo 3D into it's internal format.... provided you can force the 3D Vision driver to output to a format the TV recognizes (SBS or 3DTV-play). So you should be able to output 3D Vision games to this TV.
Higher unofficial resolution, yes and no.
If my intuition is correct (this TV is a 8x multi-view with new optics to make smooth transitions), then the 8K panel should downscale to a visual resolution akin to a 1440p image with a very thick and blurry panel coating (old fashioned anti-glare).
If they didn't invent any revolutionary optics and just upscaled the previous tech to produce the smooth transition using brute force resolution (16x multi-view), then the 8K panel would downscale to a visual resolution more in the range of 1080p (also blurry).
But that's if we can figure out a way to get the 3D Vision driver to cooperate.
If we're stuck with 3DTV play, then it's still 720p
I know that many VR games use spatial and temporal reprojection to artificially reduce input lag and increase the framerate,
so the developers should be familiar with the algorithms (Z-buffer 3D is spatial reprojection), but I do not know if they actually use them.
This TV supposedly can convert stereo 3D into it's internal format.... provided you can force the 3D Vision driver to output to a format the TV recognizes (SBS or 3DTV-play). So you should be able to output 3D Vision games to this TV.
Higher unofficial resolution, yes and no.
If my intuition is correct (this TV is a 8x multi-view with new optics to make smooth transitions), then the 8K panel should downscale to a visual resolution akin to a 1440p image with a very thick and blurry panel coating (old fashioned anti-glare).
If they didn't invent any revolutionary optics and just upscaled the previous tech to produce the smooth transition using brute force resolution (16x multi-view), then the 8K panel would downscale to a visual resolution more in the range of 1080p (also blurry).
But that's if we can figure out a way to get the 3D Vision driver to cooperate.
If we're stuck with 3DTV play, then it's still 720p
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Red Hydrogen One will also use light field. And Leia (the developers of the screen) will also bring light field displays for other brands and tablets and computers in the future
Red Hydrogen One will also use light field. And Leia (the developers of the screen) will also bring light field displays for other brands and tablets and computers in the future
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]I did read the article... I saw a lot of PR tricks to make you believe they have a completely new design when they don't.
[/quote]
The "jumps" of image are not related to viewer position, the jumps are the different views of the image that allows to see different angles of image if you move your head, like the light field cinemas and like the Red Hydrogen One with the 4 views (wich allow to see depth on any angle and position even if you tilt the screen), only that in a big screen the jump between one view and another is more noticeable.
BlackSharkfr said:I did read the article... I saw a lot of PR tricks to make you believe they have a completely new design when they don't.
The "jumps" of image are not related to viewer position, the jumps are the different views of the image that allows to see different angles of image if you move your head, like the light field cinemas and like the Red Hydrogen One with the 4 views (wich allow to see depth on any angle and position even if you tilt the screen), only that in a big screen the jump between one view and another is more noticeable.
They have all the gear no idea, they are resting on their laurels it seems.
You’re telling me 720p 3D gaming is the best nvidia can come up with for TV’s?
As long as they make a profit eh? Wtf has that got to do with making 3D tv tech?
Your point is totally unrelated.
The fact that they have the resources to have done this themselves, but chose not to, is even more aggravating.
I can see the 3D effect just from watching this phone camera video from CES.
They also show a battlefield trailer.
https://youtu.be/4pMXA8NCNwM
Maybe the reason why TV manufactures took 3D off their latest TV sets, is so they can resell it to us again in a year or two, using this ultra D tech.
Like most big companys they only care about Making more money. Offcourse we would not have new gpus every year from nvidia if they would not exist but its a situation noone can imagine.
I have 0 stock, not because i could not get some but because i believe being part of Something and saying ” its not me its the system,
Im just taking asvantage of it ” is as bad as doing the crime your self. If you make money with out anything physically changing you made money from air, you did not create anything with that money ,and that does not anything but creates more unequality to world.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Even in China and Rusia is money what makes the wheels turning, as much as I symphatize with your thoughts about economy in large companies, it's hardly relevant in a Ultra-D 3D thread!
I think we should discus the tech instead, just as the OP had in mind :)
Sometimes it just gets a little tiresome, with the ever ongoing crusades against just about everything and anybody who want's to earn money!
If you (the consumers) don't like a company or a product, vote with your wallets :)
Win7 64bit Pro
CPU: 4790K 4.8 GHZ
GPU: Aurus 1080 TI 2.08 GHZ - 100% Watercooled !
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
And lots of ram and HD's ;)
The technique described is called 2D + depth.
It is the exact same principle as 3D Vision's compatibility mode, or Tridef's Power3D mode, or the technique used by Reshade for 3D rendering.
When using the technique on video games, the generic term is Z-buffer 3D, or depth-map 3D.
It's been used in a few games on PC and console back when 3D was hyped.
- Crysis 2 & 3 (PC and consoles)
- Gears of war 3 (Xbox360)
- Batman Arkham City (Xbox360 version only)
It's very light on the system's resources, and it solves many shader issues, shadows particularely. But it has two major quality issues.
- occlusion (lack of information about what's behind objects one eye can see but the other can't, needs creative interpolation which is usually completely wrong) this limits the usable depth range to a very small region near the screen depth to avoid massive artefacts.
- single depth per pixel (issue when encountering semi-transparent objects such as glass, HUDs, reflections, etc...)
The technique is usually applied as a brute force algorithm on the entire picture (3D Vision compatibility mode, Tridef Power 3D mode, Reshade, Crysis 2&3) and is only used as a last resort algorithm if conventional dual-camera rendering is too problematic (artefacts, or poor performance)
But technique can be used more intelligently to produce a good enough stereo view and save rendering time.
For example, I have seen some very nice rendering when I saw the console version of Batman Arkham city at a trade show which looked super-clean (although that game was displayed with Trioviz anaglyph glasses), I could clearly see the devs chose to render the Batman character in a separate instance and avoid a major source of occlusion.
It is also an approach often discussed for VR games to increase rendering performance and hit higher framerates, but I do not know any list of titles using either the conventional technique or the Z-depth reprojection tehcnique.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Would be about perfect timing for nvidia to release 3D Vision 2 without glasses,
They could put the tech into the BFGD and we’ll all be happy.
I tried my friends PSVR on his PS4 Pro last night and was blown away with how good it looks.
I thought it would be a step down for from the vive but it seemed brighter and less blurry around the edges.
Does the PSVR use this same Z depth buffer method or is it using ‘real’ 3D like 3D vision?
Would the game fixes for 3D vision be compatible with the 3D on this TV?
i.e could we get a higher resoltuion unofficial 3DTV by using the game fixes and this TV somehow?
so the developers should be familiar with the algorithms (Z-buffer 3D is spatial reprojection), but I do not know if they actually use them.
This TV supposedly can convert stereo 3D into it's internal format.... provided you can force the 3D Vision driver to output to a format the TV recognizes (SBS or 3DTV-play). So you should be able to output 3D Vision games to this TV.
Higher unofficial resolution, yes and no.
If my intuition is correct (this TV is a 8x multi-view with new optics to make smooth transitions), then the 8K panel should downscale to a visual resolution akin to a 1440p image with a very thick and blurry panel coating (old fashioned anti-glare).
If they didn't invent any revolutionary optics and just upscaled the previous tech to produce the smooth transition using brute force resolution (16x multi-view), then the 8K panel would downscale to a visual resolution more in the range of 1080p (also blurry).
But that's if we can figure out a way to get the 3D Vision driver to cooperate.
If we're stuck with 3DTV play, then it's still 720p
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
The "jumps" of image are not related to viewer position, the jumps are the different views of the image that allows to see different angles of image if you move your head, like the light field cinemas and like the Red Hydrogen One with the 4 views (wich allow to see depth on any angle and position even if you tilt the screen), only that in a big screen the jump between one view and another is more noticeable.