"old drivers" support vs now? eDimensional glasses, older games, CRT's, etc.
I'm posting this due to a confusion I just stumbled across reading someone else's posts on another board.
I remember playing with older nvidia 3d tech back around 2007 which supported some eDimensional wired glasses (that used a VGA dongle) and seemed to support games well at the time. My understanding is that this version of the drivers and software should support ALL games which were ever supported up until this point. (from the first 2001 driver made with Wicked3D's help onwards)
Having not been into 3d gaming since (due to having misplaced the glasses and recently refound them) I haven't bothered to keep up on stuff assuming it had just all gotten better since it was compatible with everything back in the day and I figured it'd work even better now. So I finally got an unexpected windfall in the bank today and so ordered a pair of 580gtx cards today to run SLI while hoping I could still use my eDimensional glasses (since I already had glasses that worked fine in the past) for both single and trimonitor gaming by going back to the high end CRT's which worked fine for 3d gaming in the past doing 120hz. (had 3 all matched just only gamed on one)
My understanding is this wont work now?? (I havent tried it as the cards haven't even shipped yet but will soon)
Meaning ANY point of my chain
- the 3d glasses wont work anymore, regardless of the monitor used (modern 120hz LCD or otherwise)
- the CRT's wont work despite supporting 120hz (even if I get newer shutter glasses)
- many older games up to 2007 will no longer work either because something changed in the drivers
Please correct me if i'm wrong and the post I read was misinformed but I just had this sinking feeling and am having a sudden desire to cancel at least one of the two cards before it ships if I literally have to buy all new display hardware on top of it. :( I spent everything on the graphics cards, and bought high knowing 3D Surround would drag everything down and wasnt planning any new computer purchases for awhile. If i'm only going to be able to run 2D surround, and not use the 3d glasses at all this sorta shoots a hole in everything I had planned. It's either cancel one card and have to upgrade glasses/LCD or just cancel everything. Besides which playing the old games means alot to me - am I going to have to buy or build a retro PC just to play old games like System Shock 2 in 3d now?
I'm posting this due to a confusion I just stumbled across reading someone else's posts on another board.
I remember playing with older nvidia 3d tech back around 2007 which supported some eDimensional wired glasses (that used a VGA dongle) and seemed to support games well at the time. My understanding is that this version of the drivers and software should support ALL games which were ever supported up until this point. (from the first 2001 driver made with Wicked3D's help onwards)
Having not been into 3d gaming since (due to having misplaced the glasses and recently refound them) I haven't bothered to keep up on stuff assuming it had just all gotten better since it was compatible with everything back in the day and I figured it'd work even better now. So I finally got an unexpected windfall in the bank today and so ordered a pair of 580gtx cards today to run SLI while hoping I could still use my eDimensional glasses (since I already had glasses that worked fine in the past) for both single and trimonitor gaming by going back to the high end CRT's which worked fine for 3d gaming in the past doing 120hz. (had 3 all matched just only gamed on one)
My understanding is this wont work now?? (I havent tried it as the cards haven't even shipped yet but will soon)
Meaning ANY point of my chain
- the 3d glasses wont work anymore, regardless of the monitor used (modern 120hz LCD or otherwise)
- the CRT's wont work despite supporting 120hz (even if I get newer shutter glasses)
- many older games up to 2007 will no longer work either because something changed in the drivers
Please correct me if i'm wrong and the post I read was misinformed but I just had this sinking feeling and am having a sudden desire to cancel at least one of the two cards before it ships if I literally have to buy all new display hardware on top of it. :( I spent everything on the graphics cards, and bought high knowing 3D Surround would drag everything down and wasnt planning any new computer purchases for awhile. If i'm only going to be able to run 2D surround, and not use the 3d glasses at all this sorta shoots a hole in everything I had planned. It's either cancel one card and have to upgrade glasses/LCD or just cancel everything. Besides which playing the old games means alot to me - am I going to have to buy or build a retro PC just to play old games like System Shock 2 in 3d now?
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months which means that as long as you use the latest drivers which support CRT you should be able to use your monitors together with a 3D Vision kit. You need the kit to enable the 3D Vision ecosystem which is used for new games. There is other 3rd party middleware that I will not discuss on the official Nvidia forum.
The last graphics card that supported the old 3D driver is the DX9 7800 card if I have read other posts correctly.
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
Look around to see if you can use your current monitors with the latest drivers using 3D Vision.
If not I would consider finding the best 3D Vision monitor and starting with one with the benefit of delivering very good performance in 3D in today's demanding games.
If you were to expand to 3D Vision Surround be aware that all three monitors needs to be identical.
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months which means that as long as you use the latest drivers which support CRT you should be able to use your monitors together with a 3D Vision kit. You need the kit to enable the 3D Vision ecosystem which is used for new games. There is other 3rd party middleware that I will not discuss on the official Nvidia forum.
The last graphics card that supported the old 3D driver is the DX9 7800 card if I have read other posts correctly.
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
Look around to see if you can use your current monitors with the latest drivers using 3D Vision.
If not I would consider finding the best 3D Vision monitor and starting with one with the benefit of delivering very good performance in 3D in today's demanding games.
If you were to expand to 3D Vision Surround be aware that all three monitors needs to be identical.
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To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
Simple: Greed. Nvidia wants to make money off their proprietary glasses, which is a good thing. But there is no reason they couldn't have left previous functionality in their drivers.
Simple greed. I love my 3d vision, but this example of removing functionality makes me a bit ill. The decision was probably made by a board of directors who know almost nothing of gaming, programming, etc. but are looking at financial sheets and comin up with the ideas of removing certain features to sell more hardware. The memo goes out, and nvidias programmers are required to do it. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with.
Simple: Greed. Nvidia wants to make money off their proprietary glasses, which is a good thing. But there is no reason they couldn't have left previous functionality in their drivers.
Simple greed. I love my 3d vision, but this example of removing functionality makes me a bit ill. The decision was probably made by a board of directors who know almost nothing of gaming, programming, etc. but are looking at financial sheets and comin up with the ideas of removing certain features to sell more hardware. The memo goes out, and nvidias programmers are required to do it. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with.
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To play old games that use dx6,dx7 or dx8,you will need a 7 series geforce card,old school drivers(EX: 91.31 forceware 3dstereo),a crt monitor and your E dimentional glasses.Unfortunately these old Dx compatible games are not supported by the 3D Vision.I really would like to play Tomb Raider(1,2,3,4,or 5)using 3D Vision but It's not possible(I think).
To play old games that use dx6,dx7 or dx8,you will need a 7 series geforce card,old school drivers(EX: 91.31 forceware 3dstereo),a crt monitor and your E dimentional glasses.Unfortunately these old Dx compatible games are not supported by the 3D Vision.I really would like to play Tomb Raider(1,2,3,4,or 5)using 3D Vision but It's not possible(I think).
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
First off, just FYI since I didn't get a response quick enough I cancelled by dual 580gtx order since it was not going to do what I wanted it to figuring I could re-order it on the next sale I see if it was worth it.
[quote name='Flugan' date='21 March 2012 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1332361645' post='1385933']
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
[/quote]
Argh, thats exceedingly lame. :( Glad I postponed my order. Why REMOVE a functionality that costs them nothing to leave in even if for some reason unsupported officially? The entire point of going Nvidia instead of ATI was that "so I didn't have to buy three brand new monitors when I already have three monitors of higher quality than any LCD will ever offer me" even though the 7 driver so far doesn't want to run the 2048x1536x85hz mode I was used to in XP. This now changes the equation to a level playing field and I may not even re-buy the 580's or even 480's like I was originally considering in other threads.
[s]Whats the last driver with CRT support and the newest card(s) it supports, does anyone know offhand? Maybe I wont be buying Kepler afterall if this is how they play it.[/s]
INSERT: nevermind apparently it is 285.62, and i'm pretty sure this removes me from the market for Kepler for SOME time so I hope they reconsider this. Not forever, just for this gaming generation I wont be waiting for it anymore. It lets me know to focus on a 480 or 580 card when I build my PC later, after prices drop more.
As to different ages of drivers and hardware, i'm talking about multiple machines. I don't mind building a retro machine if I HAVE to just to play the games I like to play. Even two retro machines. I like to play things from all eras from older to modern. It wasn't going to be all one system.
[quote name='AcidBong' date='22 March 2012 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1332436965' post='1386362']
Simple: Greed. Nvidia wants to make money off their proprietary glasses, which is a good thing. But there is no reason they couldn't have left previous functionality in their drivers. [/quote]
Well it cost them a dual (to start, planning tri/quad future) 580 sale so far, i'm reconsidering my purchase options now in a way I hadn't before and at least will be waiting til post-kepler before buying any 480/580 card then. It may also shift from "postponed" to "cancelled entirely" now that i'm researching more if AMD comes out with an 8xxx card that is more compatible with displays and has game support as good.
[quote name='ricardokung' date='22 March 2012 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1332449468' post='1386467']
To play old games that use dx6,dx7 or dx8,you will need a 7 series geforce card,old school drivers(EX: 91.31 forceware 3dstereo),a crt monitor and your E dimentional glasses.Unfortunately these old Dx compatible games are not supported by the 3D Vision.I really would like to play Tomb Raider(1,2,3,4,or 5)using 3D Vision but It's not possible(I think).
[/quote]
Very unhappy now. I don't mind building a retro-PC for those few hard to play games, but youre saying ALL older games wont even work now even those that ran in Windows 7 happily?!? What about the earliest DX9 games and things thru the Matrox Surround/Parhelia era?
What about the 8800gt? That was working in win98 with some beta drivers I think, can anyone confirm that 3d vision absolutely requires a 7xxx? If I have to i'll track down a 7xxx from ebay if I literally cannot even play the games I want to play with a pair of 580gtx, 3D Vision Kit and 3 brand new 3D ready monitors. :P
[quote name='ERP' date='22 March 2012 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1332449916' post='1386470']
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
[/quote]
But can it work with "2D surround" triplehead modes at least on the 260's i have now or the 480/580's if I get the 3D Vision Kit later to use my CRT's?
However it's unfortunately removed me as a customer at the moment (when i've ALWAYS been an Nvidia guy, every card since the TNT) and i'm reconsidering my options now that i've learned almost nothing of what I wanted to do is supported any more because spending $1000 to them isn't enough they demand $3000 or nothing so I guess for now it's nothing if it works that way, i'll wait and see whether AMD 8xxx improves 3d support maybe. FYI my greatest annoyance is "wont play those older games". I don't mind paying enthusiast prices for enthusiast hardware but it has to play what I actually want to play.
First off, just FYI since I didn't get a response quick enough I cancelled by dual 580gtx order since it was not going to do what I wanted it to figuring I could re-order it on the next sale I see if it was worth it.
[quote name='Flugan' date='21 March 2012 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1332361645' post='1385933']
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
Argh, thats exceedingly lame. :( Glad I postponed my order. Why REMOVE a functionality that costs them nothing to leave in even if for some reason unsupported officially? The entire point of going Nvidia instead of ATI was that "so I didn't have to buy three brand new monitors when I already have three monitors of higher quality than any LCD will ever offer me" even though the 7 driver so far doesn't want to run the 2048x1536x85hz mode I was used to in XP. This now changes the equation to a level playing field and I may not even re-buy the 580's or even 480's like I was originally considering in other threads.
Whats the last driver with CRT support and the newest card(s) it supports, does anyone know offhand? Maybe I wont be buying Kepler afterall if this is how they play it.
INSERT: nevermind apparently it is 285.62, and i'm pretty sure this removes me from the market for Kepler for SOME time so I hope they reconsider this. Not forever, just for this gaming generation I wont be waiting for it anymore. It lets me know to focus on a 480 or 580 card when I build my PC later, after prices drop more.
As to different ages of drivers and hardware, i'm talking about multiple machines. I don't mind building a retro machine if I HAVE to just to play the games I like to play. Even two retro machines. I like to play things from all eras from older to modern. It wasn't going to be all one system.
[quote name='AcidBong' date='22 March 2012 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1332436965' post='1386362']
Simple: Greed. Nvidia wants to make money off their proprietary glasses, which is a good thing. But there is no reason they couldn't have left previous functionality in their drivers.
Well it cost them a dual (to start, planning tri/quad future) 580 sale so far, i'm reconsidering my purchase options now in a way I hadn't before and at least will be waiting til post-kepler before buying any 480/580 card then. It may also shift from "postponed" to "cancelled entirely" now that i'm researching more if AMD comes out with an 8xxx card that is more compatible with displays and has game support as good.
[quote name='ricardokung' date='22 March 2012 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1332449468' post='1386467']
To play old games that use dx6,dx7 or dx8,you will need a 7 series geforce card,old school drivers(EX: 91.31 forceware 3dstereo),a crt monitor and your E dimentional glasses.Unfortunately these old Dx compatible games are not supported by the 3D Vision.I really would like to play Tomb Raider(1,2,3,4,or 5)using 3D Vision but It's not possible(I think).
Very unhappy now. I don't mind building a retro-PC for those few hard to play games, but youre saying ALL older games wont even work now even those that ran in Windows 7 happily?!? What about the earliest DX9 games and things thru the Matrox Surround/Parhelia era?
What about the 8800gt? That was working in win98 with some beta drivers I think, can anyone confirm that 3d vision absolutely requires a 7xxx? If I have to i'll track down a 7xxx from ebay if I literally cannot even play the games I want to play with a pair of 580gtx, 3D Vision Kit and 3 brand new 3D ready monitors. :P
[quote name='ERP' date='22 March 2012 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1332449916' post='1386470']
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
But can it work with "2D surround" triplehead modes at least on the 260's i have now or the 480/580's if I get the 3D Vision Kit later to use my CRT's?
However it's unfortunately removed me as a customer at the moment (when i've ALWAYS been an Nvidia guy, every card since the TNT) and i'm reconsidering my options now that i've learned almost nothing of what I wanted to do is supported any more because spending $1000 to them isn't enough they demand $3000 or nothing so I guess for now it's nothing if it works that way, i'll wait and see whether AMD 8xxx improves 3d support maybe. FYI my greatest annoyance is "wont play those older games". I don't mind paying enthusiast prices for enthusiast hardware but it has to play what I actually want to play.
When I bought 3D Vision I was really anxious to play the old games that I love.Games like Soul reaver,Tomb Raider and others.Then I discovered that none of them work.What a pity.I read in this site a guy who built a device that makes possible to use X3D glasses(They are the same as eDimentional)with a 3d ready monitor:
http://mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13495&hilit=2233rz
It's too complicated for me to do such a device but It would be pretty good to play old games using eDimentional glasses in a such monitor.
When I bought 3D Vision I was really anxious to play the old games that I love.Games like Soul reaver,Tomb Raider and others.Then I discovered that none of them work.What a pity.I read in this site a guy who built a device that makes possible to use X3D glasses(They are the same as eDimentional)with a 3d ready monitor:
For anyone, who would like to play Soul Reaver 1 in s-3d I urge you to try the emulator MakaronEX 4 for Dreamcast. More info is available in the NullDC thread ( http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=109253&st=20&p=1388728&hl=soul%20reaver&fromsearch=1&#entry1388728) along with screenshots. Suffice it to say that s-3d is perfect and the graphics are better than the original SR1 for pc, due to the pc version being a port form the inferior ps1 version. So far the only downside I have discovered is that with 100% separation the hud disappers, but this is a minor inconvenience compared to the benefits of reliving childhood memories in s-3d. The emulator also works with any x-input or d-input gamepad, which is better than playing with a keyboard imo.
For anyone, who would like to play Soul Reaver 1 in s-3d I urge you to try the emulator MakaronEX 4 for Dreamcast. More info is available in the NullDC thread ( http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=109253&st=20&p=1388728&hl=soul%20reaver&fromsearch=1&#entry1388728) along with screenshots. Suffice it to say that s-3d is perfect and the graphics are better than the original SR1 for pc, due to the pc version being a port form the inferior ps1 version. So far the only downside I have discovered is that with 100% separation the hud disappers, but this is a minor inconvenience compared to the benefits of reliving childhood memories in s-3d. The emulator also works with any x-input or d-input gamepad, which is better than playing with a keyboard imo.
[quote name='ERP' date='22 March 2012 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1332449916' post='1386470']
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
[/quote]
You're right there!!! I own a Samsung S27A950D (un-approved LCD monitor) that has true 120hz, DVI-D and supports frame sequential mode, so using the Generic CRT mode was the workaround to enable 3D Vision in this monitor. I am pretty sure that this is the main reason Nvidia has ditched Generic CRT mode, the only one. I can't think of any other reason.
That was stupid move from Nvidia, there are other ways to make 3D Vision work with this monitor using the latest drivers, I just won't mention here cause it's against the forum rules and I also don't want to stop using 3D Vision with my new monitor.
What Nvidia didn't realized is that they harmed a lot of loyal 3D Vision/CRT users and also owners of some 2010 Samsung TVs that were compatible with frame sequential mode, which made possible to play games at 1080p30hz instead of lame 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. I am pretty sure Nvidia screwed more loyal 3D Vision users than actually prevented owners of the competitor S27A950D, which is not very popular 3D monitor cause it's not 3D Vision Ready, to be able to use 3D Vision.
[quote name='ERP' date='22 March 2012 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1332449916' post='1386470']
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
You're right there!!! I own a Samsung S27A950D (un-approved LCD monitor) that has true 120hz, DVI-D and supports frame sequential mode, so using the Generic CRT mode was the workaround to enable 3D Vision in this monitor. I am pretty sure that this is the main reason Nvidia has ditched Generic CRT mode, the only one. I can't think of any other reason.
That was stupid move from Nvidia, there are other ways to make 3D Vision work with this monitor using the latest drivers, I just won't mention here cause it's against the forum rules and I also don't want to stop using 3D Vision with my new monitor.
What Nvidia didn't realized is that they harmed a lot of loyal 3D Vision/CRT users and also owners of some 2010 Samsung TVs that were compatible with frame sequential mode, which made possible to play games at 1080p30hz instead of lame 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. I am pretty sure Nvidia screwed more loyal 3D Vision users than actually prevented owners of the competitor S27A950D, which is not very popular 3D monitor cause it's not 3D Vision Ready, to be able to use 3D Vision.
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I remember playing with older nvidia 3d tech back around 2007 which supported some eDimensional wired glasses (that used a VGA dongle) and seemed to support games well at the time. My understanding is that this version of the drivers and software should support ALL games which were ever supported up until this point. (from the first 2001 driver made with Wicked3D's help onwards)
Having not been into 3d gaming since (due to having misplaced the glasses and recently refound them) I haven't bothered to keep up on stuff assuming it had just all gotten better since it was compatible with everything back in the day and I figured it'd work even better now. So I finally got an unexpected windfall in the bank today and so ordered a pair of 580gtx cards today to run SLI while hoping I could still use my eDimensional glasses (since I already had glasses that worked fine in the past) for both single and trimonitor gaming by going back to the high end CRT's which worked fine for 3d gaming in the past doing 120hz. (had 3 all matched just only gamed on one)
My understanding is this wont work now?? (I havent tried it as the cards haven't even shipped yet but will soon)
Meaning ANY point of my chain
- the 3d glasses wont work anymore, regardless of the monitor used (modern 120hz LCD or otherwise)
- the CRT's wont work despite supporting 120hz (even if I get newer shutter glasses)
- many older games up to 2007 will no longer work either because something changed in the drivers
Please correct me if i'm wrong and the post I read was misinformed but I just had this sinking feeling and am having a sudden desire to cancel at least one of the two cards before it ships if I literally have to buy all new display hardware on top of it. :( I spent everything on the graphics cards, and bought high knowing 3D Surround would drag everything down and wasnt planning any new computer purchases for awhile. If i'm only going to be able to run 2D surround, and not use the 3d glasses at all this sorta shoots a hole in everything I had planned. It's either cancel one card and have to upgrade glasses/LCD or just cancel everything. Besides which playing the old games means alot to me - am I going to have to buy or build a retro PC just to play old games like System Shock 2 in 3d now?
I remember playing with older nvidia 3d tech back around 2007 which supported some eDimensional wired glasses (that used a VGA dongle) and seemed to support games well at the time. My understanding is that this version of the drivers and software should support ALL games which were ever supported up until this point. (from the first 2001 driver made with Wicked3D's help onwards)
Having not been into 3d gaming since (due to having misplaced the glasses and recently refound them) I haven't bothered to keep up on stuff assuming it had just all gotten better since it was compatible with everything back in the day and I figured it'd work even better now. So I finally got an unexpected windfall in the bank today and so ordered a pair of 580gtx cards today to run SLI while hoping I could still use my eDimensional glasses (since I already had glasses that worked fine in the past) for both single and trimonitor gaming by going back to the high end CRT's which worked fine for 3d gaming in the past doing 120hz. (had 3 all matched just only gamed on one)
My understanding is this wont work now?? (I havent tried it as the cards haven't even shipped yet but will soon)
Meaning ANY point of my chain
- the 3d glasses wont work anymore, regardless of the monitor used (modern 120hz LCD or otherwise)
- the CRT's wont work despite supporting 120hz (even if I get newer shutter glasses)
- many older games up to 2007 will no longer work either because something changed in the drivers
Please correct me if i'm wrong and the post I read was misinformed but I just had this sinking feeling and am having a sudden desire to cancel at least one of the two cards before it ships if I literally have to buy all new display hardware on top of it. :( I spent everything on the graphics cards, and bought high knowing 3D Surround would drag everything down and wasnt planning any new computer purchases for awhile. If i'm only going to be able to run 2D surround, and not use the 3d glasses at all this sorta shoots a hole in everything I had planned. It's either cancel one card and have to upgrade glasses/LCD or just cancel everything. Besides which playing the old games means alot to me - am I going to have to buy or build a retro PC just to play old games like System Shock 2 in 3d now?
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months which means that as long as you use the latest drivers which support CRT you should be able to use your monitors together with a 3D Vision kit. You need the kit to enable the 3D Vision ecosystem which is used for new games. There is other 3rd party middleware that I will not discuss on the official Nvidia forum.
The last graphics card that supported the old 3D driver is the DX9 7800 card if I have read other posts correctly.
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
Look around to see if you can use your current monitors with the latest drivers using 3D Vision.
If not I would consider finding the best 3D Vision monitor and starting with one with the benefit of delivering very good performance in 3D in today's demanding games.
If you were to expand to 3D Vision Surround be aware that all three monitors needs to be identical.
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months which means that as long as you use the latest drivers which support CRT you should be able to use your monitors together with a 3D Vision kit. You need the kit to enable the 3D Vision ecosystem which is used for new games. There is other 3rd party middleware that I will not discuss on the official Nvidia forum.
The last graphics card that supported the old 3D driver is the DX9 7800 card if I have read other posts correctly.
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
Look around to see if you can use your current monitors with the latest drivers using 3D Vision.
If not I would consider finding the best 3D Vision monitor and starting with one with the benefit of delivering very good performance in 3D in today's demanding games.
If you were to expand to 3D Vision Surround be aware that all three monitors needs to be identical.
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To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
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Simple greed. I love my 3d vision, but this example of removing functionality makes me a bit ill. The decision was probably made by a board of directors who know almost nothing of gaming, programming, etc. but are looking at financial sheets and comin up with the ideas of removing certain features to sell more hardware. The memo goes out, and nvidias programmers are required to do it. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with.
Simple greed. I love my 3d vision, but this example of removing functionality makes me a bit ill. The decision was probably made by a board of directors who know almost nothing of gaming, programming, etc. but are looking at financial sheets and comin up with the ideas of removing certain features to sell more hardware. The memo goes out, and nvidias programmers are required to do it. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with.
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3d Vision 2 w/ ASUS VG278HE Monitor
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
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[quote name='Flugan' date='21 March 2012 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1332361645' post='1385933']
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
[/quote]
Argh, thats exceedingly lame. :( Glad I postponed my order. Why REMOVE a functionality that costs them nothing to leave in even if for some reason unsupported officially? The entire point of going Nvidia instead of ATI was that "so I didn't have to buy three brand new monitors when I already have three monitors of higher quality than any LCD will ever offer me" even though the 7 driver so far doesn't want to run the 2048x1536x85hz mode I was used to in XP. This now changes the equation to a level playing field and I may not even re-buy the 580's or even 480's like I was originally considering in other threads.
[s]Whats the last driver with CRT support and the newest card(s) it supports, does anyone know offhand? Maybe I wont be buying Kepler afterall if this is how they play it.[/s]
INSERT: nevermind apparently it is 285.62, and i'm pretty sure this removes me from the market for Kepler for SOME time so I hope they reconsider this. Not forever, just for this gaming generation I wont be waiting for it anymore. It lets me know to focus on a 480 or 580 card when I build my PC later, after prices drop more.
As to different ages of drivers and hardware, i'm talking about multiple machines. I don't mind building a retro machine if I HAVE to just to play the games I like to play. Even two retro machines. I like to play things from all eras from older to modern. It wasn't going to be all one system.
[quote name='AcidBong' date='22 March 2012 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1332436965' post='1386362']
Simple: Greed. Nvidia wants to make money off their proprietary glasses, which is a good thing. But there is no reason they couldn't have left previous functionality in their drivers. [/quote]
Well it cost them a dual (to start, planning tri/quad future) 580 sale so far, i'm reconsidering my purchase options now in a way I hadn't before and at least will be waiting til post-kepler before buying any 480/580 card then. It may also shift from "postponed" to "cancelled entirely" now that i'm researching more if AMD comes out with an 8xxx card that is more compatible with displays and has game support as good.
[quote name='ricardokung' date='22 March 2012 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1332449468' post='1386467']
To play old games that use dx6,dx7 or dx8,you will need a 7 series geforce card,old school drivers(EX: 91.31 forceware 3dstereo),a crt monitor and your E dimentional glasses.Unfortunately these old Dx compatible games are not supported by the 3D Vision.I really would like to play Tomb Raider(1,2,3,4,or 5)using 3D Vision but It's not possible(I think).
[/quote]
Very unhappy now. I don't mind building a retro-PC for those few hard to play games, but youre saying ALL older games wont even work now even those that ran in Windows 7 happily?!? What about the earliest DX9 games and things thru the Matrox Surround/Parhelia era?
What about the 8800gt? That was working in win98 with some beta drivers I think, can anyone confirm that 3d vision absolutely requires a 7xxx? If I have to i'll track down a 7xxx from ebay if I literally cannot even play the games I want to play with a pair of 580gtx, 3D Vision Kit and 3 brand new 3D ready monitors. :P
[quote name='ERP' date='22 March 2012 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1332449916' post='1386470']
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
[/quote]
But can it work with "2D surround" triplehead modes at least on the 260's i have now or the 480/580's if I get the 3D Vision Kit later to use my CRT's?
However it's unfortunately removed me as a customer at the moment (when i've ALWAYS been an Nvidia guy, every card since the TNT) and i'm reconsidering my options now that i've learned almost nothing of what I wanted to do is supported any more because spending $1000 to them isn't enough they demand $3000 or nothing so I guess for now it's nothing if it works that way, i'll wait and see whether AMD 8xxx improves 3d support maybe. FYI my greatest annoyance is "wont play those older games". I don't mind paying enthusiast prices for enthusiast hardware but it has to play what I actually want to play.
[quote name='Flugan' date='21 March 2012 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1332361645' post='1385933']
As I understand it Nvidia stopped supporting 3D Vision on CRT fairly recently in the past 12 months
If you are trying to switch between three completely different ages of drivers. Vastly different ages of cards and a mix of CRT for the older drivers and LCD for the latest drivers you are probably a very brave man.
Argh, thats exceedingly lame. :( Glad I postponed my order. Why REMOVE a functionality that costs them nothing to leave in even if for some reason unsupported officially? The entire point of going Nvidia instead of ATI was that "so I didn't have to buy three brand new monitors when I already have three monitors of higher quality than any LCD will ever offer me" even though the 7 driver so far doesn't want to run the 2048x1536x85hz mode I was used to in XP. This now changes the equation to a level playing field and I may not even re-buy the 580's or even 480's like I was originally considering in other threads.
Whats the last driver with CRT support and the newest card(s) it supports, does anyone know offhand? Maybe I wont be buying Kepler afterall if this is how they play it.INSERT: nevermind apparently it is 285.62, and i'm pretty sure this removes me from the market for Kepler for SOME time so I hope they reconsider this. Not forever, just for this gaming generation I wont be waiting for it anymore. It lets me know to focus on a 480 or 580 card when I build my PC later, after prices drop more.
As to different ages of drivers and hardware, i'm talking about multiple machines. I don't mind building a retro machine if I HAVE to just to play the games I like to play. Even two retro machines. I like to play things from all eras from older to modern. It wasn't going to be all one system.
[quote name='AcidBong' date='22 March 2012 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1332436965' post='1386362']
Simple: Greed. Nvidia wants to make money off their proprietary glasses, which is a good thing. But there is no reason they couldn't have left previous functionality in their drivers.
Well it cost them a dual (to start, planning tri/quad future) 580 sale so far, i'm reconsidering my purchase options now in a way I hadn't before and at least will be waiting til post-kepler before buying any 480/580 card then. It may also shift from "postponed" to "cancelled entirely" now that i'm researching more if AMD comes out with an 8xxx card that is more compatible with displays and has game support as good.
[quote name='ricardokung' date='22 March 2012 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1332449468' post='1386467']
To play old games that use dx6,dx7 or dx8,you will need a 7 series geforce card,old school drivers(EX: 91.31 forceware 3dstereo),a crt monitor and your E dimentional glasses.Unfortunately these old Dx compatible games are not supported by the 3D Vision.I really would like to play Tomb Raider(1,2,3,4,or 5)using 3D Vision but It's not possible(I think).
Very unhappy now. I don't mind building a retro-PC for those few hard to play games, but youre saying ALL older games wont even work now even those that ran in Windows 7 happily?!? What about the earliest DX9 games and things thru the Matrox Surround/Parhelia era?
What about the 8800gt? That was working in win98 with some beta drivers I think, can anyone confirm that 3d vision absolutely requires a 7xxx? If I have to i'll track down a 7xxx from ebay if I literally cannot even play the games I want to play with a pair of 580gtx, 3D Vision Kit and 3 brand new 3D ready monitors. :P
[quote name='ERP' date='22 March 2012 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1332449916' post='1386470']
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
DX6/7/8 and OpenGL Support were removed most likely to reduce the support burden/development costs.
I assume the older glasses support went away at the same point DX6/7/8 support did, likely when the windows driver model changed.
You can use the IZ3D or DDD drivers with the eDimensional glasses and CRT's, but they generally have a substantial performance penalty and limited SLI support.
But can it work with "2D surround" triplehead modes at least on the 260's i have now or the 480/580's if I get the 3D Vision Kit later to use my CRT's?
However it's unfortunately removed me as a customer at the moment (when i've ALWAYS been an Nvidia guy, every card since the TNT) and i'm reconsidering my options now that i've learned almost nothing of what I wanted to do is supported any more because spending $1000 to them isn't enough they demand $3000 or nothing so I guess for now it's nothing if it works that way, i'll wait and see whether AMD 8xxx improves 3d support maybe. FYI my greatest annoyance is "wont play those older games". I don't mind paying enthusiast prices for enthusiast hardware but it has to play what I actually want to play.
http://mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13495&hilit=2233rz
It's too complicated for me to do such a device but It would be pretty good to play old games using eDimentional glasses in a such monitor.
http://mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13495&hilit=2233rz
It's too complicated for me to do such a device but It would be pretty good to play old games using eDimentional glasses in a such monitor.
http://helixmod.blogspot.com/
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
[/quote]
You're right there!!! I own a Samsung S27A950D (un-approved LCD monitor) that has true 120hz, DVI-D and supports frame sequential mode, so using the Generic CRT mode was the workaround to enable 3D Vision in this monitor. I am pretty sure that this is the main reason Nvidia has ditched Generic CRT mode, the only one. I can't think of any other reason.
That was stupid move from Nvidia, there are other ways to make 3D Vision work with this monitor using the latest drivers, I just won't mention here cause it's against the forum rules and I also don't want to stop using 3D Vision with my new monitor.
What Nvidia didn't realized is that they harmed a lot of loyal 3D Vision/CRT users and also owners of some 2010 Samsung TVs that were compatible with frame sequential mode, which made possible to play games at 1080p30hz instead of lame 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. I am pretty sure Nvidia screwed more loyal 3D Vision users than actually prevented owners of the competitor S27A950D, which is not very popular 3D monitor cause it's not 3D Vision Ready, to be able to use 3D Vision.
CRT support was removed very recently most likely because people were using it as a work around to use un-approved LCD monitors.
You're right there!!! I own a Samsung S27A950D (un-approved LCD monitor) that has true 120hz, DVI-D and supports frame sequential mode, so using the Generic CRT mode was the workaround to enable 3D Vision in this monitor. I am pretty sure that this is the main reason Nvidia has ditched Generic CRT mode, the only one. I can't think of any other reason.
That was stupid move from Nvidia, there are other ways to make 3D Vision work with this monitor using the latest drivers, I just won't mention here cause it's against the forum rules and I also don't want to stop using 3D Vision with my new monitor.
What Nvidia didn't realized is that they harmed a lot of loyal 3D Vision/CRT users and also owners of some 2010 Samsung TVs that were compatible with frame sequential mode, which made possible to play games at 1080p30hz instead of lame 3DTV Play 1080p24hz. I am pretty sure Nvidia screwed more loyal 3D Vision users than actually prevented owners of the competitor S27A950D, which is not very popular 3D monitor cause it's not 3D Vision Ready, to be able to use 3D Vision.
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