3D Vision Weekly Questions Bugs, Questions & More
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[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='958367' date='Dec 1 2009, 03:50 PM']Not quite. I am also trying to propose a possible fix to adress the ghosting issues that some people have with the Sammy 2233RZ. To understand the problem we need to understand the way TFTs work: A frame is generated and then rendered on the display, The time to do this picture progressing leads to a misalignment between the shutters of the glasses open up and the actual frame being displayed - this can be fixed by adjustable "delay", and also will be sufficient for DLP users.

However, due to the hold type nature of the TFT there is a certain time the pixels need to shift their state from one frame to the next. This is well known as the response time and depending of how you measure will range from 2-5mS tipically. In this timeslot the content is undefined and unless we talk about a monitor with blanking (what would call for a 240Hz panel) there will be a blend of both frames. Now, with a duty cicle of 50% as now, each shutter is open for 8.3mS. There is allways one eye opaque while the other is transparent. So each eye will be "open" during the transiston and you will see both frames and hence ghosting. What we need is a timeframe where both eyes are opaque that falls as exactly as possible into that slot. With "duty cicle" and "delay" you would start with a reduced duty cicle value of say 25%, adjust delay to a minimum of ghosting and then open up the duty again until ghosting just starts to reoccur again. Of course this will mandatory lead to an additional loss in brightness, but only this way you will be able to compensate for manufacturing variances and different monitor types.[/quote]

The duty cycle for the glasses is actually about 25%. Each eye is open about 1/4 of the time. I verified this with a high speed camera. The monitor itself loses a lot of time in the duty cycle refreshing from top to bottom on top of the transition times of the pixels themselves, so if the eyes were open any longer you'd see massive ghosting around the vertical center of the screen. They could lower the duty cycle of the glasses further but then the image would probably be too dark. The monitor is the main problem here. This is probably why DLP users don't see much ghosting ... DLP's aren't taking an inherent flawed approach to the refreshing of the screen.

From what I can tell the delay is pretty well configured for the 2233RZ, but I imagine different systems must have delays.

As for my question ... when are we going to see better displays? I'm dying with a 22" monitor here. I should be able to play at 1080p at least and I want to be able to buy a big 50" or bigger plasma TV that supports this technology. And the current Samsung monitor ... well, it's OK, but it exhibits more ghosting that I feel is acceptable for this technology. It really needs to be tweaked to be more friendly to the 3D technology in play. When you find a monitor that can make Mirror's Edge look proper without all the ghosting, we'll be in a good spot.
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='958367' date='Dec 1 2009, 03:50 PM']Not quite. I am also trying to propose a possible fix to adress the ghosting issues that some people have with the Sammy 2233RZ. To understand the problem we need to understand the way TFTs work: A frame is generated and then rendered on the display, The time to do this picture progressing leads to a misalignment between the shutters of the glasses open up and the actual frame being displayed - this can be fixed by adjustable "delay", and also will be sufficient for DLP users.



However, due to the hold type nature of the TFT there is a certain time the pixels need to shift their state from one frame to the next. This is well known as the response time and depending of how you measure will range from 2-5mS tipically. In this timeslot the content is undefined and unless we talk about a monitor with blanking (what would call for a 240Hz panel) there will be a blend of both frames. Now, with a duty cicle of 50% as now, each shutter is open for 8.3mS. There is allways one eye opaque while the other is transparent. So each eye will be "open" during the transiston and you will see both frames and hence ghosting. What we need is a timeframe where both eyes are opaque that falls as exactly as possible into that slot. With "duty cicle" and "delay" you would start with a reduced duty cicle value of say 25%, adjust delay to a minimum of ghosting and then open up the duty again until ghosting just starts to reoccur again. Of course this will mandatory lead to an additional loss in brightness, but only this way you will be able to compensate for manufacturing variances and different monitor types.



The duty cycle for the glasses is actually about 25%. Each eye is open about 1/4 of the time. I verified this with a high speed camera. The monitor itself loses a lot of time in the duty cycle refreshing from top to bottom on top of the transition times of the pixels themselves, so if the eyes were open any longer you'd see massive ghosting around the vertical center of the screen. They could lower the duty cycle of the glasses further but then the image would probably be too dark. The monitor is the main problem here. This is probably why DLP users don't see much ghosting ... DLP's aren't taking an inherent flawed approach to the refreshing of the screen.



From what I can tell the delay is pretty well configured for the 2233RZ, but I imagine different systems must have delays.



As for my question ... when are we going to see better displays? I'm dying with a 22" monitor here. I should be able to play at 1080p at least and I want to be able to buy a big 50" or bigger plasma TV that supports this technology. And the current Samsung monitor ... well, it's OK, but it exhibits more ghosting that I feel is acceptable for this technology. It really needs to be tweaked to be more friendly to the 3D technology in play. When you find a monitor that can make Mirror's Edge look proper without all the ghosting, we'll be in a good spot.

#16
Posted 12/02/2009 12:54 AM   
My question is: Is Nvidia working on a solution to a specific ghosting problem many users are experiencing on the samsung 2233rz and crt monitors where ghosting is evident at the top portion of the screen? There is a 9 page thread (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261) on the issue which has been going for many months and no official recognition of the problem has been given yet either on this forum or through the official support ticket system.

I've included a photo in this post of the problem as seen through my left lense (the right shows the same problem).

It appears that the top to bottom screen refresh is not adequately synced to the glasses shutter timing. Subsequently a sync adjustment option is required to address this issue.

edit: this issue is defined in more specific terms in two posts above
My question is: Is Nvidia working on a solution to a specific ghosting problem many users are experiencing on the samsung 2233rz and crt monitors where ghosting is evident at the top portion of the screen? There is a 9 page thread (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261) on the issue which has been going for many months and no official recognition of the problem has been given yet either on this forum or through the official support ticket system.



I've included a photo in this post of the problem as seen through my left lense (the right shows the same problem).



It appears that the top to bottom screen refresh is not adequately synced to the glasses shutter timing. Subsequently a sync adjustment option is required to address this issue.



edit: this issue is defined in more specific terms in two posts above

#17
Posted 12/02/2009 05:39 AM   
At first my heartfelt thanks for this dialogue and - much needed - responsiveness.

Many good points have been raised already - here is one I would like to elaborate a little on:

AUTOCONVERGENCE: The problem at the moment is that you can't have the best of worlds - either you have astonishing 3d effect but only zoomed out (with high depth & high convergence) or you have the ability to zoom in on your character but lose a good part of the 3d effect (lower convergence and/or lower depth). The driver is blind for the distance to the nearest object and can't adjust convergence on the fly to it so it is at a maximum bearable pop-out range taking your depth setting and personal tolerance into calculation. Now, to ask to have this implemented is probably to ask the imposisble at least for games that aren't programmed with 3d in mind right from the start. But...

... what about ZOOMCONVERGENCE: Many games allow to zoom via mouse wheel. Would it be possible to tie the convergence level to the zoom via mouse wheel? So if you zoom out, the convergence is increased (i.e. the neutral point is pushed into the screen) and if you zoom in, the convergence setting relaxes (i.e. the neutral point wanders towards you), so that you can take a close up look at things. This would mean binding two functions to the mouse wheel: Zoom within the game and push/pull the convergence point. Obviously the amount by which the convergence point is moved as well its starting level without mouse wheel turn would have to be user adjustable as each game would probably require different sets. The disadvantage of this solution would be that even while zoomed out objects might move very close to the screen (in most games rare occasions though). The big advantage on the other hand is, that it should easier to implement than autoconvergence (at least as far as a noob as I am can guess) since it doesn't require the driver to detect the presence of ingame objects.

Thanks for reading and returning attention to us early adaptors.
At first my heartfelt thanks for this dialogue and - much needed - responsiveness.



Many good points have been raised already - here is one I would like to elaborate a little on:



AUTOCONVERGENCE: The problem at the moment is that you can't have the best of worlds - either you have astonishing 3d effect but only zoomed out (with high depth & high convergence) or you have the ability to zoom in on your character but lose a good part of the 3d effect (lower convergence and/or lower depth). The driver is blind for the distance to the nearest object and can't adjust convergence on the fly to it so it is at a maximum bearable pop-out range taking your depth setting and personal tolerance into calculation. Now, to ask to have this implemented is probably to ask the imposisble at least for games that aren't programmed with 3d in mind right from the start. But...



... what about ZOOMCONVERGENCE: Many games allow to zoom via mouse wheel. Would it be possible to tie the convergence level to the zoom via mouse wheel? So if you zoom out, the convergence is increased (i.e. the neutral point is pushed into the screen) and if you zoom in, the convergence setting relaxes (i.e. the neutral point wanders towards you), so that you can take a close up look at things. This would mean binding two functions to the mouse wheel: Zoom within the game and push/pull the convergence point. Obviously the amount by which the convergence point is moved as well its starting level without mouse wheel turn would have to be user adjustable as each game would probably require different sets. The disadvantage of this solution would be that even while zoomed out objects might move very close to the screen (in most games rare occasions though). The big advantage on the other hand is, that it should easier to implement than autoconvergence (at least as far as a noob as I am can guess) since it doesn't require the driver to detect the presence of ingame objects.



Thanks for reading and returning attention to us early adaptors.

#18
Posted 12/02/2009 06:51 PM   
Just want to repeat the request that the issue of NOT detecting generic DLP TVs, CRT monitors and projectors should be put at the highest level of priority.[u][b]

[/b][/u]And also a feature request that's essential for games with different perspectives ie. flight sim, racing sim, or FPS that also has third person's view etc:

[b]User convergence presets:[/b] This feature allows user to have two or more different convergence settings for EACH game, dedicated to different views for example: bumpit view or external view.

[b]Autoconvergence:[/b] This feature would complement the above feature in experimental phase and if it's perfectly implemented would replace it altogether.
Just want to repeat the request that the issue of NOT detecting generic DLP TVs, CRT monitors and projectors should be put at the highest level of priority.



And also a feature request that's essential for games with different perspectives ie. flight sim, racing sim, or FPS that also has third person's view etc:



User convergence presets: This feature allows user to have two or more different convergence settings for EACH game, dedicated to different views for example: bumpit view or external view.



Autoconvergence: This feature would complement the above feature in experimental phase and if it's perfectly implemented would replace it altogether.

Xeon X5675 hex cores @4.4 GHz, GTX 1070, win10 pro
i7 7700k 5GHz, RTX 2080, win10 pro
Benq 2720Z, w1070, Oculus Rift cv1, Samsung Odyssey+

#19
Posted 12/02/2009 07:19 PM   
[quote name='distant' post='958723' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:19 PM']Just want to repeat the request that the issue of NOT detecting generic DLP TVs, CRT monitors and projectors should be put at the highest level of priority.[u][b]

[/b][/u]And also a feature request that's essential for games with different perspectives ie. flight sim, racing sim, or FPS that also has third person's view etc:

[b]User convergence presets:[/b] This feature allows user to have two or more different convergence settings for EACH game, dedicated to different views for example: bumpit view or external view.

[b]Autoconvergence:[/b] This feature would complement the above feature in experimental phase and if it's perfectly implemented would replace it altogether.[/quote]

I happen to disagree with that not being a high issue but if anyone else thinks it should have a lower level please jump in...

I just personally think that users not being able to use the hardware is very very very important, its one thing to have a broken feature but its another to have broken hardware. It makes a lot users here upset and my self included, I havent been able to get product supports since after 1.09 =(

But hey this thread belongs to all of us =)

Thanks for the input [b]distant[/b], as I see you make the comment even though it effects your DLP as well...

Anyone in favor of making this a lower priority?

**EDIT**

I see distant has the HL61A750 this model replaced mine. Some how his model revision can work with driver 1.10+ but mine are stuck at 1.09 and below =( Its the same TV!!!
/BangsHeadOnDesk ON
[quote name='distant' post='958723' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:19 PM']Just want to repeat the request that the issue of NOT detecting generic DLP TVs, CRT monitors and projectors should be put at the highest level of priority.



And also a feature request that's essential for games with different perspectives ie. flight sim, racing sim, or FPS that also has third person's view etc:



User convergence presets: This feature allows user to have two or more different convergence settings for EACH game, dedicated to different views for example: bumpit view or external view.



Autoconvergence: This feature would complement the above feature in experimental phase and if it's perfectly implemented would replace it altogether.



I happen to disagree with that not being a high issue but if anyone else thinks it should have a lower level please jump in...



I just personally think that users not being able to use the hardware is very very very important, its one thing to have a broken feature but its another to have broken hardware. It makes a lot users here upset and my self included, I havent been able to get product supports since after 1.09 =(



But hey this thread belongs to all of us =)



Thanks for the input distant, as I see you make the comment even though it effects your DLP as well...



Anyone in favor of making this a lower priority?



**EDIT**



I see distant has the HL61A750 this model replaced mine. Some how his model revision can work with driver 1.10+ but mine are stuck at 1.09 and below =( Its the same TV!!!

/BangsHeadOnDesk ON

#20
Posted 12/03/2009 12:33 AM   
Thinking about ZOOMCONVERGENCE again:

It would also be very helpful to have ZOOMDEPTH and perhaps easier to implement than zoomconvergence as it is already handled via scroll wheel of the emitter. If this function could be transferred to the [b]mousewheel[/b] and work at the same time as zooming ingame it would be possible to keep the intense 3d effect while being zoomed out and still be able to see details while zooming in. Again the amount of depth change per mouse wheel rotation degree should be configurable.

ZOOMDEPTH and/or ZOOMCONVERGENCE tackle the same problem with different approaches: Allow deep 3d and close detail at the same time. One of these functions would be imho a great improvement for all games with mouse wheel zoom functionality.

Another great thing, already mentioned by distant in this thread, USER-CONVERGENCE/DEPTH-PRESETS: Such a set would store your settings concerning and depth and convergence for a specific game. The trick is that you could use multiple sets for one game and switch between them on the fly via pressing a [b]hotkey[/b] (or call them each with a separate hotkey). In games different situations require different settings, like for example normal gameplay and cut scenes. This could be easily solved with a press of the hotkey then.
Thinking about ZOOMCONVERGENCE again:



It would also be very helpful to have ZOOMDEPTH and perhaps easier to implement than zoomconvergence as it is already handled via scroll wheel of the emitter. If this function could be transferred to the mousewheel and work at the same time as zooming ingame it would be possible to keep the intense 3d effect while being zoomed out and still be able to see details while zooming in. Again the amount of depth change per mouse wheel rotation degree should be configurable.



ZOOMDEPTH and/or ZOOMCONVERGENCE tackle the same problem with different approaches: Allow deep 3d and close detail at the same time. One of these functions would be imho a great improvement for all games with mouse wheel zoom functionality.



Another great thing, already mentioned by distant in this thread, USER-CONVERGENCE/DEPTH-PRESETS: Such a set would store your settings concerning and depth and convergence for a specific game. The trick is that you could use multiple sets for one game and switch between them on the fly via pressing a hotkey (or call them each with a separate hotkey). In games different situations require different settings, like for example normal gameplay and cut scenes. This could be easily solved with a press of the hotkey then.

#21
Posted 12/03/2009 06:44 AM   
why there is no mention on the first thread about the major problem most of users have with samsung/viewsonic and probably crt about the ghosting on the top of the screen ?

[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261[/url]

this is not even considered for a future workaround ?
can someone please tell us what is causing this, if it's monitor issue or glasses issue and if we can hope for a future driver or a future hardware revision that totally eliminate this?
thank you

EDIT: readed the full thread, i think aswell that probably a fix is to enable a sync delay slider for fine tuning the timing between the monitors and the glasses, btw we have no confirmation on this, afaik it should be also an hardware limitation, we need some developers that can give us exact info on this. I've tried all version driver, even the first ones that still has delat sync adjustment values in the registry editor, unfortunately it seems they have no effect on my samsung monitor, probably those setting are overrided when a 2233rz motior is recognized... so we have non way to test it if it's a sync issue. Only Nvidia can tell us.
why there is no mention on the first thread about the major problem most of users have with samsung/viewsonic and probably crt about the ghosting on the top of the screen ?



http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261



this is not even considered for a future workaround ?

can someone please tell us what is causing this, if it's monitor issue or glasses issue and if we can hope for a future driver or a future hardware revision that totally eliminate this?

thank you



EDIT: readed the full thread, i think aswell that probably a fix is to enable a sync delay slider for fine tuning the timing between the monitors and the glasses, btw we have no confirmation on this, afaik it should be also an hardware limitation, we need some developers that can give us exact info on this. I've tried all version driver, even the first ones that still has delat sync adjustment values in the registry editor, unfortunately it seems they have no effect on my samsung monitor, probably those setting are overrided when a 2233rz motior is recognized... so we have non way to test it if it's a sync issue. Only Nvidia can tell us.

#22
Posted 12/03/2009 01:17 PM   
[quote name='pappmasta' post='958868' date='Dec 3 2009, 01:33 AM']I happen to disagree with that not being a high issue but if anyone else thinks it should have a lower level please jump in...
/BangsHeadOnDesk ON[/quote]
I tihink you misunderstood... As I see it distant meant it is top of the ranking when it comes to priority level, where I would agree,
second is getting rid of the ghosting everything else comes second to these...
[quote name='pappmasta' post='958868' date='Dec 3 2009, 01:33 AM']I happen to disagree with that not being a high issue but if anyone else thinks it should have a lower level please jump in...

/BangsHeadOnDesk ON

I tihink you misunderstood... As I see it distant meant it is top of the ranking when it comes to priority level, where I would agree,

second is getting rid of the ghosting everything else comes second to these...

#23
Posted 12/03/2009 11:19 PM   
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='959314' date='Dec 3 2009, 04:19 PM']I tihink you misunderstood... As I see it distant meant it is top of the ranking when it comes to priority level, where I would agree,
second is getting rid of the ghosting everything else comes second to these...[/quote]

You are SO right I re-read that post just now and I def read it wrong the other day ... :">

/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='959314' date='Dec 3 2009, 04:19 PM']I tihink you misunderstood... As I see it distant meant it is top of the ranking when it comes to priority level, where I would agree,

second is getting rid of the ghosting everything else comes second to these...



You are SO right I re-read that post just now and I def read it wrong the other day ... :">



/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

#24
Posted 12/04/2009 12:22 AM   
are we ever going to get new drivers to support Generic DLP/CRT?

This is getting rediculous... I have so many new games yet runnin 1.13 still...
are we ever going to get new drivers to support Generic DLP/CRT?



This is getting rediculous... I have so many new games yet runnin 1.13 still...

#25
Posted 12/07/2009 07:03 PM   
[quote name='pappmasta' post='957945' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:51 PM']** Keep this thread clean and respectful do I even need to explain further? Have respect for other users and Nvidia employees ...
*** Andrew has confirmed before hand that he will not be able to address this thread every week keep this in mind...[/quote]

Ok, I guess at this point I would have expected to at least see some response from Amorphous and/or ChrisRay in this thread, even if nothing is solved yet to at least make sure we are all on the same page here on what this thread is and what it isn't. It wasn't just up to Andrew to respond if I understand his comments correctly.
[quote name='pappmasta' post='957945' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:51 PM']** Keep this thread clean and respectful do I even need to explain further? Have respect for other users and Nvidia employees ...

*** Andrew has confirmed before hand that he will not be able to address this thread every week keep this in mind...



Ok, I guess at this point I would have expected to at least see some response from Amorphous and/or ChrisRay in this thread, even if nothing is solved yet to at least make sure we are all on the same page here on what this thread is and what it isn't. It wasn't just up to Andrew to respond if I understand his comments correctly.

#26
Posted 12/07/2009 10:15 PM   
Yeah.. just wunderin' when we're going to get a response regarding CRT/DLP support in the
last two driver sets?

I want to play Avatar on my 50" 3d ready Plasma !

Thank you :)
Yeah.. just wunderin' when we're going to get a response regarding CRT/DLP support in the

last two driver sets?



I want to play Avatar on my 50" 3d ready Plasma !



Thank you :)

#27
Posted 12/08/2009 04:52 AM   
Hey guys, been swamped at the day job lately, but I'm still around. While I haven't given this thread the attention it deserved (until now), I've got the ball rolling now. ChrisRay has stepped away from his desk but is expected back in a couple of days.

You guys don't need to worry about rating your own questions, or making rules for that. We'll handle it on our end. In a fashion similar to the Ask NVIDIA a Question program, we don't dodge "hard" questions. The goal of this is to improve 3D Vision and your experience.

If you need a lot of background or supporting information please separate out your question from it. I don't want to miss any critical points of the question and I have to keep the questions rather short. [b]Be direct.[/b] Don't worry so much about trying to make your question/issue seem relevant.


Amorphous
Hey guys, been swamped at the day job lately, but I'm still around. While I haven't given this thread the attention it deserved (until now), I've got the ball rolling now. ChrisRay has stepped away from his desk but is expected back in a couple of days.



You guys don't need to worry about rating your own questions, or making rules for that. We'll handle it on our end. In a fashion similar to the Ask NVIDIA a Question program, we don't dodge "hard" questions. The goal of this is to improve 3D Vision and your experience.



If you need a lot of background or supporting information please separate out your question from it. I don't want to miss any critical points of the question and I have to keep the questions rather short. Be direct. Don't worry so much about trying to make your question/issue seem relevant.





Amorphous

This is account is no longer active. Please contact Kris@NVIDIA for assistance.

If you're dying to reach me, hit me up at Amorphous@NVIDIA

Advanced Moderator Operations and Recursive Posting Hermetic/Omnigenous User-Simulating AI

NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members.

#28
Posted 12/08/2009 07:54 AM   
[quote name='Amorphous' post='961367' date='Dec 8 2009, 07:54 AM']If you need a lot of background or supporting information please separate out your question from it. I don't want to miss any critical points of the question and I have to keep the questions rather short.[/quote]
I've included all the relevant background and supporting info in the [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=152118&view=findpost&p=957953"]second post[/url] in this thread, but here are my actual questions in more direct abbreviated form:

1. [b]The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard[/b]. When will this be fixed, and will future driver releases be tested with all these displays prior to release so this problem never arises again?

2. When will [b]OpenGL support[/b] for Geforce cards be re-enabled?

3. When will [b]user controlled software sync of glasses timing[/b] (GlassesDelayMinus, GlassesDelayPlus and GlassesSwitchDelay) be re-enabled? ([i]Although I've only ranked this issue third because the above two probably affect more people in total, for many projector users like myself and for those users of the bundled monitors with timing related problems this is easily the most important missing/broken feature of the drivers as evidenced by [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261"]this thread[/url] which has 12,000+ views. Fixing it would transform the quality of the 3D Vision experience for a very large number of users[/i]).

4. Will the features of the [b]on-screen display[/b] be expanded to include things like convergence, frustrum adjustment, and frontplane etc?

5. When will the 3D Vision [b]gamma adjustment[/b] feature be re-enabled?

6. Although nVidia have done a great job in publicising 3D Vision with PC gaming magazines and tech websites, efforts with regard to [b]developer relations[/b] don't seem to have been very fruitful. Will nVidia step up the pressure on developers to conform to 3D Vision compatability requirements by dropping [i]all[/i] support and cross promotion for those who refuse to sign up to follow 3D guidelines for future games (and those who fail to update major existing games to work well in 3D)? On a related note, will nVidia work with developers to ensure future 3D game profiles are released [i]before[/i] the corresponding game and its demo (rather than weeks or months after)?

7. Since the launch of the original stereoscopic drivers, the [b]3D laser sight[/b] has always been somewhat erratic. In some games enabling it triggers massive frame rate loss, in others its movement in the Z dimension occurs in large jumps rather than smoothly, and in some games it doesn't even work at all. Will nVidia have a serious look at the underlying code and resolve these problems?

8. Settings for convergence and depth are related - adjusting one often necessitates a change in the other, yet [b]when we save a 3D Vision profile the depth isn't stored[/b]. This means that if you adjust settings for one game, save the profile and then play a second game which requires different depth settings, you'll have to readjust the depth if you return to the first game. Can the code for saving profiles with CTRL+F7 be adjusted so that it also saves depth?

9. Previously there was a setting in the drivers for [b]screen size[/b]. This was useful as display size has a major effect on perceived depth so a profile that's been designed to work well on a tiny 22" screen won't look right on a 72" projector screen (and vice versa). Can this feature be re-enabled?

10. We can already take 3D screenshots, but the drivers currently have no facility to [b]record movies in 3D[/b]. Is there any chance that this could be added?

Many thanks,
DD
[quote name='Amorphous' post='961367' date='Dec 8 2009, 07:54 AM']If you need a lot of background or supporting information please separate out your question from it. I don't want to miss any critical points of the question and I have to keep the questions rather short.

I've included all the relevant background and supporting info in the second post in this thread, but here are my actual questions in more direct abbreviated form:



1. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. When will this be fixed, and will future driver releases be tested with all these displays prior to release so this problem never arises again?



2. When will OpenGL support for Geforce cards be re-enabled?



3. When will user controlled software sync of glasses timing (GlassesDelayMinus, GlassesDelayPlus and GlassesSwitchDelay) be re-enabled? (Although I've only ranked this issue third because the above two probably affect more people in total, for many projector users like myself and for those users of the bundled monitors with timing related problems this is easily the most important missing/broken feature of the drivers as evidenced by this thread which has 12,000+ views. Fixing it would transform the quality of the 3D Vision experience for a very large number of users).



4. Will the features of the on-screen display be expanded to include things like convergence, frustrum adjustment, and frontplane etc?



5. When will the 3D Vision gamma adjustment feature be re-enabled?



6. Although nVidia have done a great job in publicising 3D Vision with PC gaming magazines and tech websites, efforts with regard to developer relations don't seem to have been very fruitful. Will nVidia step up the pressure on developers to conform to 3D Vision compatability requirements by dropping all support and cross promotion for those who refuse to sign up to follow 3D guidelines for future games (and those who fail to update major existing games to work well in 3D)? On a related note, will nVidia work with developers to ensure future 3D game profiles are released before the corresponding game and its demo (rather than weeks or months after)?



7. Since the launch of the original stereoscopic drivers, the 3D laser sight has always been somewhat erratic. In some games enabling it triggers massive frame rate loss, in others its movement in the Z dimension occurs in large jumps rather than smoothly, and in some games it doesn't even work at all. Will nVidia have a serious look at the underlying code and resolve these problems?



8. Settings for convergence and depth are related - adjusting one often necessitates a change in the other, yet when we save a 3D Vision profile the depth isn't stored. This means that if you adjust settings for one game, save the profile and then play a second game which requires different depth settings, you'll have to readjust the depth if you return to the first game. Can the code for saving profiles with CTRL+F7 be adjusted so that it also saves depth?



9. Previously there was a setting in the drivers for screen size. This was useful as display size has a major effect on perceived depth so a profile that's been designed to work well on a tiny 22" screen won't look right on a 72" projector screen (and vice versa). Can this feature be re-enabled?



10. We can already take 3D screenshots, but the drivers currently have no facility to record movies in 3D. Is there any chance that this could be added?



Many thanks,

DD

#29
Posted 12/08/2009 12:00 PM   
11. What about [b]GHOSTING AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN[/b] ??? I wrote to Samsung and they said: "That's a problem, results from the Nvidia Driver!"
Will there be a fix ?? A update ??? Why is that problem manifesting ??? Don't get me wrong: but to hold my eyes strictly away from the top of the screen, can't be the solution !!!

And of course: thank you very much for your answers !!! :-)
11. What about GHOSTING AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN ??? I wrote to Samsung and they said: "That's a problem, results from the Nvidia Driver!"

Will there be a fix ?? A update ??? Why is that problem manifesting ??? Don't get me wrong: but to hold my eyes strictly away from the top of the screen, can't be the solution !!!



And of course: thank you very much for your answers !!! :-)

#30
Posted 12/08/2009 01:53 PM   
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