Can you adjust the shutter speed 'tracking' of 3D vision? might help ghosting at the top of
Hi

I understand LCD screens refresh from bottem to top. Because of the timing of my shutter glasses, the 'sweet spot window' (I dont know what it is properly called) is at the bottom 5/6 of the screen. My ghosting starts a 1/6 of the way from the top and is at its worse right at the top. Could you adjust the timing of your shutters to move the sweet spot window up or down? If so I would like to delay the timing just fraction so the sweet spot window moves higher up the screen; this would mean that although I would get ghosting at the top and bottom tenth it would be less pronounced.

Have I understood it right?

Is this possible?

Thanks
Hi



I understand LCD screens refresh from bottem to top. Because of the timing of my shutter glasses, the 'sweet spot window' (I dont know what it is properly called) is at the bottom 5/6 of the screen. My ghosting starts a 1/6 of the way from the top and is at its worse right at the top. Could you adjust the timing of your shutters to move the sweet spot window up or down? If so I would like to delay the timing just fraction so the sweet spot window moves higher up the screen; this would mean that although I would get ghosting at the top and bottom tenth it would be less pronounced.



Have I understood it right?



Is this possible?



Thanks

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

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#1
Posted 04/08/2010 05:20 PM   
no not realy but there might be a way to make it better
I read that if you make sure emitter is plugged right into the motherboard and you disable all other apps and programs it can help

any kind of system tweeking software is a big no no too.

hope it helps
no not realy but there might be a way to make it better

I read that if you make sure emitter is plugged right into the motherboard and you disable all other apps and programs it can help



any kind of system tweeking software is a big no no too.



hope it helps

#2
Posted 04/08/2010 05:42 PM   
[quote name='Crash27' post='1036289' date='Apr 8 2010, 06:42 PM']no not realy but there might be a way to make it better
I read that if you make sure emitter is plugged right into the motherboard and you disable all other apps and programs it can help

any kind of system tweeking software is a big no no too.

hope it helps[/quote]

Thanks bud, but with respect, I think you are getting confused with flickering/flashing which is resolved by what you mentioned. AFAIK ghosting isnt resolved by USB port, it might be if the delay from the CPU to the emmiter is causing a kind of shift...

I would like to be able to fine tune the timing. That way, if I wanted to, i could shift flickering so the glasses flicker at the opposite time to when the should.

[b]I am not trying to speed up or slow down the frequency of the flicker[/b], NO! That needs to remain a constent. [b]I only want to be able to shift the start time[/b] if you know what I mean...

Thanks
[quote name='Crash27' post='1036289' date='Apr 8 2010, 06:42 PM']no not realy but there might be a way to make it better

I read that if you make sure emitter is plugged right into the motherboard and you disable all other apps and programs it can help



any kind of system tweeking software is a big no no too.



hope it helps



Thanks bud, but with respect, I think you are getting confused with flickering/flashing which is resolved by what you mentioned. AFAIK ghosting isnt resolved by USB port, it might be if the delay from the CPU to the emmiter is causing a kind of shift...



I would like to be able to fine tune the timing. That way, if I wanted to, i could shift flickering so the glasses flicker at the opposite time to when the should.



I am not trying to speed up or slow down the frequency of the flicker, NO! That needs to remain a constent. I only want to be able to shift the start time if you know what I mean...



Thanks

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

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#3
Posted 04/09/2010 08:42 PM   
This feature (shifting glasses delays) was available very long time ago and then only 1. 4. 2010

I hope you understand. There is one locked thread about it in which you have all information you need.

PS:
You can not solve ghosting by shifting glasses delays, it could be solved only by prolongating period glasses are closed, but it would be probably unpleasant experience then.
This feature (shifting glasses delays) was available very long time ago and then only 1. 4. 2010



I hope you understand. There is one locked thread about it in which you have all information you need.



PS:

You can not solve ghosting by shifting glasses delays, it could be solved only by prolongating period glasses are closed, but it would be probably unpleasant experience then.

#4
Posted 04/09/2010 09:24 PM   
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1037049' date='Apr 9 2010, 10:24 PM']You can not solve ghosting by shifting glasses delays, it could be solved only by prolongating period glasses are closed, but it would be probably unpleasant experience then.[/quote]

Cheers bud!

I know that what I am asking will not solve ghosting and, as you say, the only way to solve it would be to prolong the closed period or have a better LCD response time, I just want to be able to phase shift the closed period...
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1037049' date='Apr 9 2010, 10:24 PM']You can not solve ghosting by shifting glasses delays, it could be solved only by prolongating period glasses are closed, but it would be probably unpleasant experience then.



Cheers bud!



I know that what I am asking will not solve ghosting and, as you say, the only way to solve it would be to prolong the closed period or have a better LCD response time, I just want to be able to phase shift the closed period...

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#5
Posted 04/09/2010 10:39 PM   
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1037049' date='Apr 9 2010, 09:24 PM']You can not solve ghosting by shifting glasses delays, it could be solved only by prolongating period glasses are closed, but it would be probably unpleasant experience then.[/quote]
There's a guy who posts here who uses a USB sync box to slightly delay the shutter timing with his glasses, and he reckoned it hugely improves his ghosting situation.

The thing is - every screen is different, they have all different amounts of lag. It seems common sense to give us some timing controls. If nothing else it would at least stop people complaining that nVidia is neglecting us by not giving us these controls. I would also ask you why sync timing options used to be in the drivers if they don't make any difference?
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1037049' date='Apr 9 2010, 09:24 PM']You can not solve ghosting by shifting glasses delays, it could be solved only by prolongating period glasses are closed, but it would be probably unpleasant experience then.

There's a guy who posts here who uses a USB sync box to slightly delay the shutter timing with his glasses, and he reckoned it hugely improves his ghosting situation.



The thing is - every screen is different, they have all different amounts of lag. It seems common sense to give us some timing controls. If nothing else it would at least stop people complaining that nVidia is neglecting us by not giving us these controls. I would also ask you why sync timing options used to be in the drivers if they don't make any difference?

#6
Posted 04/09/2010 11:06 PM   
[quote name='fish99' post='1037112' date='Apr 10 2010, 12:06 AM']There's a guy who posts here who uses a USB sync box to slightly delay the shutter timing with his glasses, and he reckoned it hugely improves his ghosting situation.

The thing is - every screen is different, they have all different amounts of lag. It seems common sense to give us some timing controls. If nothing else it would at least stop people complaining that nVidia is neglecting us by not giving us these controls. I would also ask you why sync timing options used to be in the drivers if they don't make any difference?[/quote]

I guess one of the reasons is that the sync timing option will only really effect those with LCD screens because of the way the screens refresh.

If I have understood it correctly, this shifting will not blend the ghosting between the top and bottom, the ghosting at the bottom be total because it hasnt updated at all when the glasses flicker. BUT I would rather that small useless cm at the base of the screen because it would make the top less severe!

Of course if you own an output other than an LCD screen e.g. a projector, an option to adjust the sync timing will only ever mess up the settings. Perhaps nVidia got fed up with people breaking their setups...

[i][color="#4B0082"]@ nVidia this type of ghosting is [b]not a fault of nVidia 3D Vision[/b], it is an LCD issue. But maybe you could help...[/color][/i]

I would really appreciate andrewf@nvidia or a colleague of his to share their thoughts.

TVM
[quote name='fish99' post='1037112' date='Apr 10 2010, 12:06 AM']There's a guy who posts here who uses a USB sync box to slightly delay the shutter timing with his glasses, and he reckoned it hugely improves his ghosting situation.



The thing is - every screen is different, they have all different amounts of lag. It seems common sense to give us some timing controls. If nothing else it would at least stop people complaining that nVidia is neglecting us by not giving us these controls. I would also ask you why sync timing options used to be in the drivers if they don't make any difference?



I guess one of the reasons is that the sync timing option will only really effect those with LCD screens because of the way the screens refresh.



If I have understood it correctly, this shifting will not blend the ghosting between the top and bottom, the ghosting at the bottom be total because it hasnt updated at all when the glasses flicker. BUT I would rather that small useless cm at the base of the screen because it would make the top less severe!



Of course if you own an output other than an LCD screen e.g. a projector, an option to adjust the sync timing will only ever mess up the settings. Perhaps nVidia got fed up with people breaking their setups...



@ nVidia this type of ghosting is not a fault of nVidia 3D Vision, it is an LCD issue. But maybe you could help...



I would really appreciate andrewf@nvidia or a colleague of his to share their thoughts.



TVM

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
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Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
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#7
Posted 04/10/2010 07:01 AM   
This topic has been discussed zillion times and is very old, I think Nvidia does not wish to allow tweaking of these parameters because of marketing purposes.

Herr Andrew and others are watching, but remain silent.

I should not be even discussing this topic (ghosting) because it ends usually for me with ban. Happy that the last one ended yesterday and Herr Exitios (this nick is really nasty) unbanned me.
This topic has been discussed zillion times and is very old, I think Nvidia does not wish to allow tweaking of these parameters because of marketing purposes.



Herr Andrew and others are watching, but remain silent.



I should not be even discussing this topic (ghosting) because it ends usually for me with ban. Happy that the last one ended yesterday and Herr Exitios (this nick is really nasty) unbanned me.

#8
Posted 04/10/2010 07:54 AM   
Thanks mate!

I appreciate that different people, with different setups suffer a differing amount of ghosting. This is understandable because as you (I think) posted elsewhere, all systems suffer a slight degree of lag and unless nVidia and the companies making LCD monitors can accurately predict this lag, on all machines, they will never eliminate ghosting. How could they?

As I posted above, I would like to hear from an nVidia bod. Mainly to find out if the theory of shifting the sweet zone / nicely synced-up window around the screen is sound. As I play games in stereo, I realise I find the top 10% section of the game window far more noticable than the lower 10%. I would happily have 5% of totally messed up screen at the base if it resulted in less ghosting at the top. To be able to adjust this 'tracking' manually would be a very attractive option for me.

Cheers!

ps I know I keep mentioning ghosting but I am very pleased with my monitor; my Viewsonic suffers minimal ghosting which is why I would love to be able to shift it the little it has - hint hint...
Thanks mate!



I appreciate that different people, with different setups suffer a differing amount of ghosting. This is understandable because as you (I think) posted elsewhere, all systems suffer a slight degree of lag and unless nVidia and the companies making LCD monitors can accurately predict this lag, on all machines, they will never eliminate ghosting. How could they?



As I posted above, I would like to hear from an nVidia bod. Mainly to find out if the theory of shifting the sweet zone / nicely synced-up window around the screen is sound. As I play games in stereo, I realise I find the top 10% section of the game window far more noticable than the lower 10%. I would happily have 5% of totally messed up screen at the base if it resulted in less ghosting at the top. To be able to adjust this 'tracking' manually would be a very attractive option for me.



Cheers!



ps I know I keep mentioning ghosting but I am very pleased with my monitor; my Viewsonic suffers minimal ghosting which is why I would love to be able to shift it the little it has - hint hint...

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#9
Posted 04/11/2010 09:09 PM   
I too am still waiting for official word on this after what seems like an eternity. A moderator on this forum have stating that Nvidia is aware and working on something to assist with ghosting problems. The top of screen ghosting thread is one of if not the longest thread this forum has ever seen (at 15 pages long [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261)"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261)[/url] and there's still been no official word on a fix or some way to at least improve the situation :(.
I too am still waiting for official word on this after what seems like an eternity. A moderator on this forum have stating that Nvidia is aware and working on something to assist with ghosting problems. The top of screen ghosting thread is one of if not the longest thread this forum has ever seen (at 15 pages long http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261) and there's still been no official word on a fix or some way to at least improve the situation :(.

#10
Posted 04/12/2010 01:47 AM   
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