¿GTX 780 or SLI GTX 760? (For 3D-Vision 1080P)
  4 / 4    
@ bo3b, I wonder if the broken tesselation doesn't ruin my last part of the test.... I will make a test with your settings just to be able to compare. I suspect those jumps to be the result of micro-stuttering that everyone complains about using dual-GPU cards. What troubles me, if that even if the fps jump from 20 to 80 the visual impact to the naked eye is not seen. But then again some people are more sensible to stuttering than others. I can safely say that I am not one of those sensible guys:)) So if I don't look at the numbers I wouldn't know:))
@ bo3b,
I wonder if the broken tesselation doesn't ruin my last part of the test....
I will make a test with your settings just to be able to compare.

I suspect those jumps to be the result of micro-stuttering that everyone complains about using dual-GPU cards.
What troubles me, if that even if the fps jump from 20 to 80 the visual impact to the naked eye is not seen. But then again some people are more sensible to stuttering than others. I can safely say that I am not one of those sensible guys:)) So if I don't look at the numbers I wouldn't know:))

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#46
Posted 08/07/2013 10:41 AM   
Yeah, it definitely has the look of microstuttering. It doesn't make sense that my SLI 580 wouldn't match your 590 though- it's nearly the same. It's interesting that it happens at the end. I think that may be the only spot with serious PhysX in the benchmark. BTW, what driver version?
Yeah, it definitely has the look of microstuttering. It doesn't make sense that my SLI 580 wouldn't match your 590 though- it's nearly the same.

It's interesting that it happens at the end. I think that may be the only spot with serious PhysX in the benchmark.

BTW, what driver version?

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#47
Posted 08/07/2013 11:28 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Yeah, it definitely has the look of microstuttering. It doesn't make sense that my SLI 580 wouldn't match your 590 though- it's nearly the same. It's interesting that it happens at the end. I think that may be the only spot with serious PhysX in the benchmark. BTW, what driver version?[/quote] I am using the latest betas...(Which are full of buggys) TBH for me the best driver so far is the 314.22 but that is BEFORE the Metro and some of Tomb Raider optimizations... hmmm...I will also give a try with those...
bo3b said:Yeah, it definitely has the look of microstuttering. It doesn't make sense that my SLI 580 wouldn't match your 590 though- it's nearly the same.

It's interesting that it happens at the end. I think that may be the only spot with serious PhysX in the benchmark.

BTW, what driver version?


I am using the latest betas...(Which are full of buggys) TBH for me the best driver so far is the 314.22 but that is BEFORE the Metro and some of Tomb Raider optimizations... hmmm...I will also give a try with those...

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#48
Posted 08/07/2013 11:56 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Yeah, it definitely has the look of microstuttering. It doesn't make sense that my SLI 580 wouldn't match your 590 though- it's nearly the same. It's interesting that it happens at the end. I think that may be the only spot with serious PhysX in the benchmark. BTW, what driver version?[/quote] So same test As you same settings. I still see weird weird graph/performance using PhysX...Time to try some other drivers... [url=http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=ne1ybane.ri3.png][img]http://iforce.co.nz/i/ne1ybane.ri3.png[/img][/url] 2 other questions: Are you using Tripple buffering from nVPanel? Is 3D Vision option enabled? in nVPanel (but you disable it during the test?) Now I am really wondering why I get this... It's not my Mobo (Assus ROG Maximus V Gene) It's not my CPU (I5 3570k) It's not my RAM (8GB HyperX on XMM0 @ 1.6Ghz) I wonder what can it be...hmmm
bo3b said:Yeah, it definitely has the look of microstuttering. It doesn't make sense that my SLI 580 wouldn't match your 590 though- it's nearly the same.

It's interesting that it happens at the end. I think that may be the only spot with serious PhysX in the benchmark.

BTW, what driver version?


So same test As you same settings. I still see weird weird graph/performance using PhysX...Time to try some other drivers...
Image



2 other questions:

Are you using Tripple buffering from nVPanel?
Is 3D Vision option enabled? in nVPanel (but you disable it during the test?)


Now I am really wondering why I get this...

It's not my Mobo (Assus ROG Maximus V Gene)
It's not my CPU (I5 3570k)
It's not my RAM (8GB HyperX on XMM0 @ 1.6Ghz)

I wonder what can it be...hmmm

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#49
Posted 08/07/2013 12:02 PM   
Guru3D says that they had stuttering on all the cards they tested, they attributed it to the engine or system. They also said ..."It should be noted that there is currently a bug (Either in the game or in the software) that can cut your FPS by more than 50% and GPU usage by the same if you are running Logitech Gaming Software (For Keyboards like the G19, G15 and other Logitech devices). Disable the LCore.exe process before running the game" http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/metro_last_light_graphics_performance_review_benchmark,7.html
Guru3D says that they had stuttering on all the cards they tested, they attributed it to the engine or system. They also said ..."It should be noted that there is currently a bug (Either in the game or in the software) that can cut your FPS by more than 50% and GPU usage by the same if you are running Logitech Gaming Software (For Keyboards like the G19, G15 and other Logitech devices). Disable the LCore.exe process before running the game"

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/metro_last_light_graphics_performance_review_benchmark,7.html

#50
Posted 08/07/2013 12:32 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Guru3D says that they had stuttering on all the cards they tested, they attributed it to the engine or system. They also said ..."It should be noted that there is currently a bug (Either in the game or in the software) that can cut your FPS by more than 50% and GPU usage by the same if you are running Logitech Gaming Software (For Keyboards like the G19, G15 and other Logitech devices). Disable the LCore.exe process before running the game" http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/metro_last_light_graphics_performance_review_benchmark,7.html[/quote] Hmm I am not using any Logitech gear. My Keyboard and mouse are made by Cyborg...now MadCatz...Hmmm. First re-installing the game, Reinstalled the drivers to 320.49 (had to make 5 restarts to properly remove them lol) I guess I will disable all the other programs running... I wonder... Problem is I don't see the stuttering the graph is showing...That is what puzzles me the most:)) yet I get a horrible graph while bo3b gets a clean one. I also get a clean one when I am disabling SLI... Hmm doing some more tests really interested to see if this a multi-gpu thing or not;)) And what puzzles me (like I said ) is that the bad performance from the graph is not actual reflected in the live action, but is still there... Hmm also I see I am not the only one with these "graphs" [url=http://cdn.overclock.net/5/53/53935003_Dyo6THa.jpeg]http://cdn.overclock.net/5/53/53935003_Dyo6THa.jpeg[/url] And those are Titans SLI...Hmmm I also think that was before numerous game patches and driver releases... I wonder if my game was actually up to date..lol:)) Anyway downloading it again Edit: Same results no matter what;))
D-Man11 said:Guru3D says that they had stuttering on all the cards they tested, they attributed it to the engine or system. They also said ..."It should be noted that there is currently a bug (Either in the game or in the software) that can cut your FPS by more than 50% and GPU usage by the same if you are running Logitech Gaming Software (For Keyboards like the G19, G15 and other Logitech devices). Disable the LCore.exe process before running the game"

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/metro_last_light_graphics_performance_review_benchmark,7.html



Hmm I am not using any Logitech gear. My Keyboard and mouse are made by Cyborg...now MadCatz...Hmmm.
First re-installing the game, Reinstalled the drivers to 320.49 (had to make 5 restarts to properly remove them lol) I guess I will disable all the other programs running...
I wonder...
Problem is I don't see the stuttering the graph is showing...That is what puzzles me the most:)) yet I get a horrible graph while bo3b gets a clean one.
I also get a clean one when I am disabling SLI... Hmm doing some more tests really interested to see if this a multi-gpu thing or not;)) And what puzzles me (like I said ) is that the bad performance from the graph is not actual reflected in the live action, but is still there...


Hmm also I see I am not the only one with these "graphs"
http://cdn.overclock.net/5/53/53935003_Dyo6THa.jpeg
And those are Titans SLI...Hmmm

I also think that was before numerous game patches and driver releases... I wonder if my game was actually up to date..lol:)) Anyway downloading it again

Edit: Same results no matter what;))

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#51
Posted 08/07/2013 12:39 PM   
[quote="helifax"]2 other questions: Are you using Tripple buffering from nVPanel? Is 3D Vision option enabled? in nVPanel (but you disable it during the test?) Now I am really wondering why I get this... It's not my Mobo (Assus ROG Maximus V Gene) It's not my CPU (I5 3570k) It's not my RAM (8GB HyperX on XMM0 @ 1.6Ghz) I wonder what can it be...hmmm[/quote]For what it's worth, I'm running the test with 3D enabled and active. The other notable difference is I'm running at 1280x720@120Hz, instead of 1080p. No triple buffering explicitly set, I'm not sure if this is on by default. We know it has some relationship to PhysX, because when you disable PhysX the gap goes away. Do you happen to have a spare GPU, even something ancient for a dedicated card test? If not, maybe try CPU as PhysX to see (should be bad frame rates, but maybe shows microstutter difference.) I know microstutter [i]was [/i]a problem, but they reportedly fixed it.
helifax said:2 other questions:

Are you using Tripple buffering from nVPanel?
Is 3D Vision option enabled? in nVPanel (but you disable it during the test?)


Now I am really wondering why I get this...

It's not my Mobo (Assus ROG Maximus V Gene)
It's not my CPU (I5 3570k)
It's not my RAM (8GB HyperX on XMM0 @ 1.6Ghz)

I wonder what can it be...hmmm
For what it's worth, I'm running the test with 3D enabled and active. The other notable difference is I'm running at 1280x720@120Hz, instead of 1080p.

No triple buffering explicitly set, I'm not sure if this is on by default.


We know it has some relationship to PhysX, because when you disable PhysX the gap goes away. Do you happen to have a spare GPU, even something ancient for a dedicated card test? If not, maybe try CPU as PhysX to see (should be bad frame rates, but maybe shows microstutter difference.)

I know microstutter was a problem, but they reportedly fixed it.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#52
Posted 08/08/2013 10:50 AM   
In the driver sub forum, there were multiple ways that guys were able to reduce/eliminate it. But for many the problem was persistant in many games, especially BF3. Edit: Things like vsync settings in the NVCP and/or in-game. Turning off Hyper Threading. Underclocking/Overclocking/Changing Voltages. Uninstalling certain Microsoft Updates. [quote="GrumpyDeathRaven"]I went into Windows update, installed updates, and deleted these updates: KB2670838 and KB2807986. All hitching/stuttering gone in drivers from 313.96-314.22. It started out by poor performance in 3Dmark and futuremark admitting there is a problem with KB2807986 as that is a DX 11.1 update that killed performance on Nvidia Cards. So I put 2 and 2 together, got rid of the 2670838 update, and VOILA! Stuttering gone. Try it.[/quote] Plus other updates. As well as numerous other solutions/fixes.
In the driver sub forum, there were multiple ways that guys were able to reduce/eliminate it. But for many the problem was persistant in many games, especially BF3.

Edit: Things like vsync settings in the NVCP and/or in-game. Turning off Hyper Threading. Underclocking/Overclocking/Changing Voltages. Uninstalling certain Microsoft Updates.

GrumpyDeathRaven said:I went into Windows update, installed updates, and deleted these updates: KB2670838 and KB2807986. All hitching/stuttering gone in drivers from 313.96-314.22. It started out by poor performance in 3Dmark and futuremark admitting there is a problem with KB2807986 as that is a DX 11.1 update that killed performance on Nvidia Cards. So I put 2 and 2 together, got rid of the 2670838 update, and VOILA! Stuttering gone. Try it.


Plus other updates.

As well as numerous other solutions/fixes.

#53
Posted 08/08/2013 10:55 AM   
You could try GPUView or XPerf, too complex for my feeble mind. http://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfisher/GPUView.html http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/jj585574(v=vs.85).aspx Oh and there's always Microsoft's Resource Manager, it has event recording http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/video/windows-7-screencast-resource-monitor-resmon.aspx Here's a better link showing event capture/data collector sets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTu7OIkrMfY
You could try GPUView or XPerf, too complex for my feeble mind.

http://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfisher/GPUView.html

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/jj585574(v=vs.85).aspx

Oh and there's always Microsoft's Resource Manager, it has event recording

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/video/windows-7-screencast-resource-monitor-resmon.aspx

Here's a better link showing event capture/data collector sets

#54
Posted 08/08/2013 11:27 AM   
[quote="D-Man11"]In the driver sub forum, there were multiple ways that guys were able to reduce/eliminate it. But for many the problem was persistant in many games, especially BF3. Edit: Things like vsync settings in the NVCP and/or in-game. Turning off Hyper Threading. Underclocking/Overclocking/Changing Voltages. Uninstalling certain Microsoft Updates. [quote="GrumpyDeathRaven"]I went into Windows update, installed updates, and deleted these updates: KB2670838 and KB2807986. All hitching/stuttering gone in drivers from 313.96-314.22. It started out by poor performance in 3Dmark and futuremark admitting there is a problem with KB2807986 as that is a DX 11.1 update that killed performance on Nvidia Cards. So I put 2 and 2 together, got rid of the 2670838 update, and VOILA! Stuttering gone. Try it.[/quote] Plus other updates. As well as numerous other solutions/fixes.[/quote] Hmm I don't even have those updates installed...As a matter of fact I stopped Windows Update on my PC for one year now:)) after having last year some problems with some Windows patches/updates... I wonder if this is the case:)) I don't even want to think about enabling it after so much time hahahaha:)) Setting PhysX to the CPU gives terrible fps but the stuttering is almost gone. [url=http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=ogq5mgow.nye.png][img]http://iforce.co.nz/i/ogq5mgow.nye.png[/img][/url] Anyway I will look into it later on when I have some free time. Probably a windows reinstall + updates could also help:)) as for OC, the only thing that is OCed is the CPU and I doubt this affects the GPU...(since the GTX 590 is a terrible overclocker especially when the gpus are used 99% constantly:)) )
D-Man11 said:In the driver sub forum, there were multiple ways that guys were able to reduce/eliminate it. But for many the problem was persistant in many games, especially BF3.

Edit: Things like vsync settings in the NVCP and/or in-game. Turning off Hyper Threading. Underclocking/Overclocking/Changing Voltages. Uninstalling certain Microsoft Updates.

GrumpyDeathRaven said:I went into Windows update, installed updates, and deleted these updates: KB2670838 and KB2807986. All hitching/stuttering gone in drivers from 313.96-314.22. It started out by poor performance in 3Dmark and futuremark admitting there is a problem with KB2807986 as that is a DX 11.1 update that killed performance on Nvidia Cards. So I put 2 and 2 together, got rid of the 2670838 update, and VOILA! Stuttering gone. Try it.


Plus other updates.

As well as numerous other solutions/fixes.


Hmm I don't even have those updates installed...As a matter of fact I stopped Windows Update on my PC for one year now:)) after having last year some problems with some Windows patches/updates...
I wonder if this is the case:))
I don't even want to think about enabling it after so much time hahahaha:))


Setting PhysX to the CPU gives terrible fps but the stuttering is almost gone.

Image


Anyway I will look into it later on when I have some free time. Probably a windows reinstall + updates could also help:))

as for OC, the only thing that is OCed is the CPU and I doubt this affects the GPU...(since the GTX 590 is a terrible overclocker especially when the gpus are used 99% constantly:)) )

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#55
Posted 08/08/2013 12:36 PM   
@leomen, not sure if we lost you during that PhysX frenzy. Probably as good an example as any of how SLI can sometimes be an odd problem. [quote="Pirateguybrush"]I still say go with the 760s. In SLI, you'll be working with 2gb on /each card/. It's enough, it'll probably be a little faster, and you're less likely to have problems.[/quote]Even though Pirate is a madman, I agree that for your purposes, the SLI 760 is probably the best choice. Based on your answers to those questions I posed, it's a more economical solution for better performance, you have no real need for more than 2G of VRAM, PhysX will be fine, noise is not a problem, and the only real concern is power consumption. But, 760 is 150W, 780 is 250W, so 2x150=300W max, which is not far enough off to make a difference.
@leomen, not sure if we lost you during that PhysX frenzy. Probably as good an example as any of how SLI can sometimes be an odd problem.

Pirateguybrush said:I still say go with the 760s. In SLI, you'll be working with 2gb on /each card/. It's enough, it'll probably be a little faster, and you're less likely to have problems.
Even though Pirate is a madman, I agree that for your purposes, the SLI 760 is probably the best choice.

Based on your answers to those questions I posed, it's a more economical solution for better performance, you have no real need for more than 2G of VRAM, PhysX will be fine, noise is not a problem, and the only real concern is power consumption. But, 760 is 150W, 780 is 250W, so 2x150=300W max, which is not far enough off to make a difference.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#56
Posted 08/09/2013 08:11 AM   
Having done the equivalent of buying a 780 (I bought a 580 6 months before the 600 series arrived). The next generation geforce is coming next year according to the roadmap but that does not really affect things at this point in time. I recently bought Another 580 new and cheap making it 580 SLI. If you buy two 760 you probably have to replace them both if upgrading while there are more upgrade paths for a single 780.
Having done the equivalent of buying a 780 (I bought a 580 6 months before the 600 series arrived).

The next generation geforce is coming next year according to the roadmap but that does not really affect things at this point in time.

I recently bought Another 580 new and cheap making it 580 SLI.

If you buy two 760 you probably have to replace them both if upgrading while there are more upgrade paths for a single 780.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#57
Posted 08/09/2013 08:38 AM   
  4 / 4    
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