How much ghosting is normal, can it be eliminated and are there better glasses/technologies?
Hi all, first of all I just played through GTA V with the 3D Vision Glasses 2, a GTX 980 and an Asus VG248 and overall it was very fun. However the 3D Vision Technology still seems to have a lot of problems and for a product which is around several years already and on the market in version 2 I would have expected more. There is the flickering of the actual image as well as of all surrounding light sources. I've tested the glasses and game with several people and all see it very strong. Luckily most people - including me - kind of adapt to it/ignore it after a short while in game so I can live with that. Then the game gets much darker (and that is with LightBoost, I don't want to imagine how dark games got before LightBoost...). But due to the flickering of daylight windows or electrical light you normally play in dark rooms anyways and there the game is still bright enough. So personally I can also live with that, too. The last "bigger" problem I noticed is the one I found most hindering: Ghosting. As I'd like to play games in future in 3D as well (because as I said before overall already now it was quite fun) I'd like to sort out a few things about that problem. It already got reported several times in this forum as well. A good description of the kind of ghosting I see including a picture which shows it in about the same characteristic I have it can be found here: https://goo.gl/05jCNJ Playing around with contrast and brightness helps a little bit but when it's in game day (bright sky and light) it's still nearly impossible to not notice such ghosting effects a lot. I first thought this comes from the monitor which cannot switch dark pixels fast enough to bright pixels and vice versa. But then I encountered a bug where my glasses got stuck. One eye was blacked out and the other wasn't. In that state I could clearly see that the blacked out eye was by far not blacked out 100%, more like 90% or even less. I encountered it a second time with the same effect but I could not reproduce it intentionally. So now I believe the glasses not blacking out 100% have a bigger impact on the ghosting effect than my monitor does. So here some questions/thoughts where it would be great if someone with more 3D experience could answer to: [list] [.]Are the shutter glasses supposed to black out one eye 100% and if so are mine maybe defect?[/.] [.]Is there a test software with which I can black out the right and left glass separately and constantly to test my glasses? Or is there any other way to do so?[/.] [.]Are there any third party glasses on the market which are compatible to the 3D Vision IR emitter and technology which maybe are better in that regard (I don't mind pricing very much)?[/.] [.]Are here some people which have high quality beamers in a 3D setup with active shutter glasses and do you also encounter ghosting (if you haven't connected it to a PC/PlayStation/other3DcapableGamingDevice you would also see it in films on scenes with a high contrast; especially when you pause them)?[/.] [.]Are there any other ways to get rid of such ghosting effects in games?[/.] [/list] Thanks for any input!
Hi all,

first of all I just played through GTA V with the 3D Vision Glasses 2, a GTX 980 and an Asus VG248 and overall it was very fun.

However the 3D Vision Technology still seems to have a lot of problems and for a product which is around several years already and on the market in version 2 I would have expected more.

There is the flickering of the actual image as well as of all surrounding light sources. I've tested the glasses and game with several people and all see it very strong. Luckily most people - including me - kind of adapt to it/ignore it after a short while in game so I can live with that.
Then the game gets much darker (and that is with LightBoost, I don't want to imagine how dark games got before LightBoost...). But due to the flickering of daylight windows or electrical light you normally play in dark rooms anyways and there the game is still bright enough. So personally I can also live with that, too.

The last "bigger" problem I noticed is the one I found most hindering: Ghosting. As I'd like to play games in future in 3D as well (because as I said before overall already now it was quite fun) I'd like to sort out a few things about that problem.
It already got reported several times in this forum as well. A good description of the kind of ghosting I see including a picture which shows it in about the same characteristic I have it can be found here: https://goo.gl/05jCNJ

Playing around with contrast and brightness helps a little bit but when it's in game day (bright sky and light) it's still nearly impossible to not notice such ghosting effects a lot. I first thought this comes from the monitor which cannot switch dark pixels fast enough to bright pixels and vice versa. But then I encountered a bug where my glasses got stuck. One eye was blacked out and the other wasn't. In that state I could clearly see that the blacked out eye was by far not blacked out 100%, more like 90% or even less. I encountered it a second time with the same effect but I could not reproduce it intentionally.
So now I believe the glasses not blacking out 100% have a bigger impact on the ghosting effect than my monitor does. So here some questions/thoughts where it would be great if someone with more 3D experience could answer to:

  • Are the shutter glasses supposed to black out one eye 100% and if so are mine maybe defect?
  • Is there a test software with which I can black out the right and left glass separately and constantly to test my glasses? Or is there any other way to do so?
  • Are there any third party glasses on the market which are compatible to the 3D Vision IR emitter and technology which maybe are better in that regard (I don't mind pricing very much)?
  • Are here some people which have high quality beamers in a 3D setup with active shutter glasses and do you also encounter ghosting (if you haven't connected it to a PC/PlayStation/other3DcapableGamingDevice you would also see it in films on scenes with a high contrast; especially when you pause them)?
  • Are there any other ways to get rid of such ghosting effects in games?



Thanks for any input!

#1
Posted 05/17/2015 01:20 AM   
From what I hear it's inherent with the tech LCD, the best you can get is either DLP, virtually crosstalk-free, and HMDs, where there's literally two separate screens. I have an old DLP TV and am extremely happy with it.
From what I hear it's inherent with the tech LCD, the best you can get is either DLP, virtually crosstalk-free, and HMDs, where there's literally two separate screens. I have an old DLP TV and am extremely happy with it.
#2
Posted 05/17/2015 02:40 AM   
[quote="TsaebehT"]From what I hear it's inherent with the tech LCD, the best you can get is either DLP, virtually crosstalk-free, and HMDs, where there's literally two separate screens. I have an old DLP TV and am extremely happy with it.[/quote] I don't know any full HD HMDs with reaction times that are suitable for gaming (incl. first person shooters). Are there any and if yes can you post them? (Currently I'm hoping for the Oculus Rift consumer version but as far as I know neither a release date nor the planned resolution is known.) And with "beamer" I meant DLP. So that is the option I also already was considering because as you I "heard" that ghosting is a problem of LCDs. But now with my experience of the bug I talked about I'm not so sure anymore and maybe people in general a just less concerned about ghosting and it still exists with a DLP due to the shutter glass not completely shading a glass... Do you have some confirmed information about this?
TsaebehT said:From what I hear it's inherent with the tech LCD, the best you can get is either DLP, virtually crosstalk-free, and HMDs, where there's literally two separate screens. I have an old DLP TV and am extremely happy with it.


I don't know any full HD HMDs with reaction times that are suitable for gaming (incl. first person shooters). Are there any and if yes can you post them? (Currently I'm hoping for the Oculus Rift consumer version but as far as I know neither a release date nor the planned resolution is known.)

And with "beamer" I meant DLP. So that is the option I also already was considering because as you I "heard" that ghosting is a problem of LCDs. But now with my experience of the bug I talked about I'm not so sure anymore and maybe people in general a just less concerned about ghosting and it still exists with a DLP due to the shutter glass not completely shading a glass... Do you have some confirmed information about this?

#3
Posted 05/17/2015 04:15 AM   
Here is a good recent thread on ghosting: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/1/ Your glasses might be off, but if you are getting noticeably more ghosting and think it's the glasses, it could be that your IPD doesn't match the glasses very well. That's the only part where they don't block essentially 100% of the light. There is a vertical sweet spot at 65 mm. One size doesn't exactly fit all, but it's what we've got. To test for this you can use the test images from that thread which gives you a static image that you can look for the sweet spot. If you use a projector for zero display ghosting, you can also get different glasses, and possibly get a better match. Sony TMZ-3 is the HMD that works with 3D TV Play, and seems to be well liked by people that have them. Oculus Rift just announced a release data of Early 2016 for CV1, and a resolution of 2160x1200, same as Vive. http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-resolution-recommended-specs/
Here is a good recent thread on ghosting:


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/1/



Your glasses might be off, but if you are getting noticeably more ghosting and think it's the glasses, it could be that your IPD doesn't match the glasses very well. That's the only part where they don't block essentially 100% of the light. There is a vertical sweet spot at 65 mm. One size doesn't exactly fit all, but it's what we've got.

To test for this you can use the test images from that thread which gives you a static image that you can look for the sweet spot.


If you use a projector for zero display ghosting, you can also get different glasses, and possibly get a better match.


Sony TMZ-3 is the HMD that works with 3D TV Play, and seems to be well liked by people that have them.


Oculus Rift just announced a release data of Early 2016 for CV1, and a resolution of 2160x1200, same as Vive.


http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-resolution-recommended-specs/

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#4
Posted 05/17/2015 04:50 AM   
Thanks bo3b for all that information. That are some interesting threads and exciting news about the Oculus Rift I haven't known yet. I've also seen you went through some effort yourself to get a ghosting free experience with a projector. Do you also use that for first person shooters and if so can you recommend some projectors and other needed hardware? EDIT: Meanwhile I took some of the tests from the other threads and also noticed that the ghosting effect is much stronger on a quite big area left and right of one glass (on about 10% of the side next to your nose and about 15% of the side next to your ear) compared to the center of the glass. Is this normal for the NVidia 3D Vision Glasses (because I'm still not absolutely sure if my glasses work correctly)?
Thanks bo3b for all that information.
That are some interesting threads and exciting news about the Oculus Rift I haven't known yet. I've also seen you went through some effort yourself to get a ghosting free experience with a projector. Do you also use that for first person shooters and if so can you recommend some projectors and other needed hardware?

EDIT: Meanwhile I took some of the tests from the other threads and also noticed that the ghosting effect is much stronger on a quite big area left and right of one glass (on about 10% of the side next to your nose and about 15% of the side next to your ear) compared to the center of the glass. Is this normal for the NVidia 3D Vision Glasses (because I'm still not absolutely sure if my glasses work correctly)?

#5
Posted 05/17/2015 05:36 AM   
Have you looked at some of Bloody's articles? http://3dvision-blog.com/2283-effectively-reducing-stereo-3d-ghosting-in-some-games-with-3d-vision/ http://3dvision-blog.com/6365-more-on-ghosting-and-brightness-of-the-asus-vg278h-3d-monitor/ http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/stereo-ghosting/
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