Switching from ATI 6850 to nVidia 3D
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I think you're fully missing the point Cooky.. regardless if I find a game that maxes the CPU and proves it holds back the 670... The point is that it is being strangle thumped before the CPU even flexes. All we need to do is figure out what is causing it to perform so much worse than the ATI card on the exact same setup. I'll give ya a great example right now. I ordered the same 144Hz 1ms monitor for my brother and buddy and also got them the GTX OC 660. They're running Phenom II 3.4Ghz. All hardware shipped to me.. they just installed same time I did. Their slower 660 on slower amd cpu is running WoW at 1080 & Ultra without dropping below 60fps so far. Betcha this is gonna nag me until I reinstall windows. So far the MB chipset drivers from AMD and gigabytes amd chipset version has failed and rebooted my system upon trying to re-install
I think you're fully missing the point Cooky.. regardless if I find a game that maxes the CPU and proves it holds back the 670... The point is that it is being strangle thumped before the CPU even flexes. All we need to do is figure out what is causing it to perform so much worse than the ATI card on the exact same setup. I'll give ya a great example right now. I ordered the same 144Hz 1ms monitor for my brother and buddy and also got them the GTX OC 660. They're running Phenom II 3.4Ghz. All hardware shipped to me.. they just installed same time I did. Their slower 660 on slower amd cpu is running WoW at 1080 & Ultra without dropping below 60fps so far.

Betcha this is gonna nag me until I reinstall windows. So far the MB chipset drivers from AMD and gigabytes amd chipset version has failed and rebooted my system upon trying to re-install

#31
Posted 05/04/2013 01:25 AM   
The point is, even if it isn't the problem, you owe it to the card to replace the CPU at some point. I've had some problems with crappy Nvidia drivers that needed a Windows reinstall, might be something to try as a last resort.
The point is, even if it isn't the problem, you owe it to the card to replace the CPU at some point.

I've had some problems with crappy Nvidia drivers that needed a Windows reinstall, might be something to try as a last resort.

#32
Posted 05/04/2013 01:41 AM   
I would assume it was processor related as well but I dont know why it would be more efficient on one your amd then nvidia. There is an easy way to settle it if it processor related though. Reduce resolution. If frames per second remains the same thats the problem. Its 100% processor, either its too weak or its overheating. If that doesnt fix the issue. -Download a tool like evga precision and turn on all monitoring. -Open MSCONFIG in run and turn off all background applications on startup then reboot -Disable anti-virus. -Maybe it has something to do with amd/ati drivers still being on computer. -Check your heat of GPU/CPU. Throttleing may be happening. CPUMON I believe is the tool.
I would assume it was processor related as well but I dont know why it would be more efficient on one your amd then nvidia.

There is an easy way to settle it if it processor related though.
Reduce resolution. If frames per second remains the same thats the problem. Its 100% processor, either its too weak or its overheating.

If that doesnt fix the issue.
-Download a tool like evga precision and turn on all monitoring.
-Open MSCONFIG in run and turn off all background applications on startup then reboot
-Disable anti-virus.
-Maybe it has something to do with amd/ati drivers still being on computer.
-Check your heat of GPU/CPU. Throttleing may be happening. CPUMON I believe is the tool.

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#33
Posted 05/04/2013 01:36 AM   
Just used core temp to monitor while in game. Once again... absolutely nothing to do with CPU. 2 cores spike around 70-90% and other 2 site around 20-30% while game loads. Once settled in game and FPS shows steady. 3 of the cores will jump around from 34-53% usage and 4th core stays around 10-20% usage. Nice little app. It shows that the amd auto overclocks to 4Ghz and CPU hasn't went above 28 degrees C I believe it has to do with drivers. But it wont let me re-install MB amd drivers. My bet i'll have to slap in ATI card or activate APU ATI video for the stupid MB drivers to install.
Just used core temp to monitor while in game. Once again... absolutely nothing to do with CPU.
2 cores spike around 70-90% and other 2 site around 20-30% while game loads. Once settled in game and FPS shows steady. 3 of the cores will jump around from 34-53% usage and 4th core stays around 10-20% usage. Nice little app. It shows that the amd auto overclocks to 4Ghz and CPU hasn't went above 28 degrees C

I believe it has to do with drivers. But it wont let me re-install MB amd drivers. My bet i'll have to slap in ATI card or activate APU ATI video for the stupid MB drivers to install.

#34
Posted 05/04/2013 02:19 AM   
Your motherboard might do something special for amd card is only thing I can think of and whatever it is still activated or remants of software is still on computer via registry. These drivers for amd/nvidia arent exactly the best of removing everything when you uninstall. Uninstall anything amd/motherboard related in system Download [url]http://www.guru3d.com/content_page/guru3d_driver_sweeper.html[/url] And manually get anything that is missed. Reinstall motherboard driver, it may let you now. If that doesnt work make sure you repeat steps for nvidia before installing the amd card.
Your motherboard might do something special for amd card is only thing I can think of and whatever it is still activated or remants of software is still on computer via registry. These drivers for amd/nvidia arent exactly the best of removing everything when you uninstall.
Uninstall anything amd/motherboard related in system
Download
http://www.guru3d.com/content_page/guru3d_driver_sweeper.html
And manually get anything that is missed.
Reinstall motherboard driver, it may let you now.

If that doesnt work make sure you repeat steps for nvidia before installing the amd card.

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#35
Posted 05/04/2013 02:23 AM   
Problem is. I did sweep all ATI / AMD drivers. AMD has a special utility on their site that finds leftovers and cleans registry and removes files hidden in windows. On reboot of Win 8 Pro. Windows quickly installed a set of amd chipset drivers along with NVidia drivers version 311. I assume its the basic set Windows 8 comes with. But any attempt to install newer MB drivers causes the system to reboot. It appears chipset drivers expect to find an ATI video source and when it fails to find one, install fails and reboots. Talking to my buddy who installed the 660 on his AMD. When he went to uninstall his ATI. He chose custom uninstall and only uninstalled CCC & ATI video driver. Leaving the MB chipset drivers alone. I wish I did the same. But worried about ATI files left behind I cleaned all and expected to just reinstall MB drivers. Time to test it out. Going to slap in ATI and redo drivers than copy what my buddy did
Problem is. I did sweep all ATI / AMD drivers. AMD has a special utility on their site that finds leftovers and cleans registry and removes files hidden in windows. On reboot of Win 8 Pro. Windows quickly installed a set of amd chipset drivers along with NVidia drivers version 311.
I assume its the basic set Windows 8 comes with.
But any attempt to install newer MB drivers causes the system to reboot. It appears chipset drivers expect to find an ATI video source and when it fails to find one, install fails and reboots.

Talking to my buddy who installed the 660 on his AMD. When he went to uninstall his ATI. He chose custom uninstall and only uninstalled CCC & ATI video driver. Leaving the MB chipset drivers alone. I wish I did the same. But worried about ATI files left behind I cleaned all and expected to just reinstall MB drivers.

Time to test it out. Going to slap in ATI and redo drivers than copy what my buddy did

#36
Posted 05/04/2013 02:45 AM   
I see that your mobo has Lucid Virtu Universal GPU Virtualization Software perhaps it optomized better with your AMD GPU? Perhaps you need to remove or configure it with the Nvidia GPU. I do recall in the driver forums someone saying that either the last driver or the new beta broke Lucid Virtu.
I see that your mobo has Lucid Virtu Universal GPU Virtualization Software perhaps it optomized better with your AMD GPU?

Perhaps you need to remove or configure it with the Nvidia GPU.

I do recall in the driver forums someone saying that either the last driver or the new beta broke Lucid Virtu.

#37
Posted 05/04/2013 02:55 AM   
That Lucid thing is crap, don't go near it. It doesn't boost performance at all, and it causes some games to crash. As for your problem, I'd just format and reinstall - get everything on there nice and clean, and it'll be faster than the several days of troubleshooting this will likely take.
That Lucid thing is crap, don't go near it. It doesn't boost performance at all, and it causes some games to crash.

As for your problem, I'd just format and reinstall - get everything on there nice and clean, and it'll be faster than the several days of troubleshooting this will likely take.

#38
Posted 05/04/2013 06:19 AM   
I thought about clean install of windows. But I'd face the same problem if all this is caused by MB amd chipset drivers. Just as I thought. Slapping the ATI back in allowed me to install the MB chipset drivers without a problem. Tested performance of the 6850 once again. Than without removing any ATI / AMD drivers (including CCC), I replaced the 6850 with 670 and reinstalled NVidia drivers. Now it could be because Orgrimmar is not as packed right now but my FPS went up to 40fps. This is the first time in 30 years of building computers I have ever ran across a MB that required a specific brand of video card to install the MB drivers. On the bright side, the CCC and NVidia control panel have not caused any errors in the last 2 hours. The CCC now only shows settings for the cpu and mb.
I thought about clean install of windows. But I'd face the same problem if all this is caused by MB amd chipset drivers.
Just as I thought. Slapping the ATI back in allowed me to install the MB chipset drivers without a problem. Tested performance of the 6850 once again. Than without removing any ATI / AMD drivers (including CCC), I replaced the 6850 with 670 and reinstalled NVidia drivers. Now it could be because Orgrimmar is not as packed right now but my FPS went up to 40fps. This is the first time in 30 years of building computers I have ever ran across a MB that required a specific brand of video card to install the MB drivers. On the bright side, the CCC and NVidia control panel have not caused any errors in the last 2 hours. The CCC now only shows settings for the cpu and mb.

#39
Posted 05/04/2013 06:49 AM   
Wouldn't actually surprise me if AMD did something like that, but they have had fairly bad driver support since they swallowed up ATI, who had the shit driver support crown before that.
Wouldn't actually surprise me if AMD did something like that, but they have had fairly bad driver support since they swallowed up ATI, who had the shit driver support crown before that.

#40
Posted 05/04/2013 07:59 AM   
Just to add to this, I have SLI 670's and last night decided to hop back on my WoW trial account to see how the performance was compared to my old 580 card. at 1080 with ultra settings, no AA, in 3D I was getting 100 FPS flying from Ironforge to Stormwind, and in Stormwind near the auction house I got 60 FPS. I have an i5 2500k clocked to 4.3, WoW just does not scale at all well with higher end gfx cards. It needs high end CPU power to back it up also. I tried out the new WoW expansion in 3D not too long ago with the 580, and in 3D I was getting roughly 25-30 FPS and had to lower multiple settings to get acceptable performance. If you want to try out your new upgrades to see performance increases I would recommend staying away from WoW and try something like Tomb Raider or Crysis 3. WoW does look pretty amazing in 3D though. And just in case you aren't aware of it, if you want WoW to use a 3D mouse cursor, disable the hardware cursor in the advanced menu.
Just to add to this, I have SLI 670's and last night decided to hop back on my WoW trial account to see how the performance was compared to my old 580 card.

at 1080 with ultra settings, no AA, in 3D I was getting 100 FPS flying from Ironforge to Stormwind, and in Stormwind near the auction house I got 60 FPS.

I have an i5 2500k clocked to 4.3, WoW just does not scale at all well with higher end gfx cards. It needs high end CPU power to back it up also.

I tried out the new WoW expansion in 3D not too long ago with the 580, and in 3D I was getting roughly 25-30 FPS and had to lower multiple settings to get acceptable performance.

If you want to try out your new upgrades to see performance increases I would recommend staying away from WoW and try something like Tomb Raider or Crysis 3.

WoW does look pretty amazing in 3D though. And just in case you aren't aware of it, if you want WoW to use a 3D mouse cursor, disable the hardware cursor in the advanced menu.

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#41
Posted 05/04/2013 09:11 AM   
Tomb Raider = yes Crysis 3 uses a fake 3d effect that's a bit crap, I'd avoid it.
Tomb Raider = yes
Crysis 3 uses a fake 3d effect that's a bit crap, I'd avoid it.

#42
Posted 05/04/2013 09:57 AM   
Yeah, go for the two 660's. I've got them and can run basically anything with max settings in 3D @ 1080p. No need to spend 200 extra bucks for the Ti models as the real world performance difference really is not worth the price difference.
Yeah, go for the two 660's. I've got them and can run basically anything with max settings in 3D @ 1080p. No need to spend 200 extra bucks for the Ti models as the real world performance difference really is not worth the price difference.

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#43
Posted 05/04/2013 10:13 AM   
[quote="Foulplay99"]I have an i5 2500k clocked to 4.3, WoW just does not scale at all well with higher end gfx cards. It needs high end CPU power to back it up also.[/quote] Already shown that in my test the CPU is not taxed. Max (and this is taking all highest numbers of each core) is 60% of 3 cores and 20% on 4th core. I would say during test the actual average of each of the 3 cores is 46%. So. Apples to apples. My $100 6850 should not in any way beat a $400 670. And thanks for the mouse cursor tip :) [quote="Joohan"]Yeah, go for the two 660's. I've got them and can run basically anything with max settings in 3D @ 1080p. No need to spend 200 extra bucks for the Ti models as the real world performance difference really is not worth the price difference.[/quote] Can't do sli. The Ti is $100 more but I did already spend $200 more and got the 670. I'm going to drag out my old phen II system and check the 670 performance in it. WoW will tax my old cpu. If the 670 shows higher fps than I know the problem is the this APU/FM2 set up.
Foulplay99 said:I have an i5 2500k clocked to 4.3, WoW just does not scale at all well with higher end gfx cards. It needs high end CPU power to back it up also.

Already shown that in my test the CPU is not taxed. Max (and this is taking all highest numbers of each core) is 60% of 3 cores and 20% on 4th core. I would say during test the actual average of each of the 3 cores is 46%. So. Apples to apples. My $100 6850 should not in any way beat a $400 670.
And thanks for the mouse cursor tip :)

Joohan said:Yeah, go for the two 660's. I've got them and can run basically anything with max settings in 3D @ 1080p. No need to spend 200 extra bucks for the Ti models as the real world performance difference really is not worth the price difference.

Can't do sli. The Ti is $100 more but I did already spend $200 more and got the 670.

I'm going to drag out my old phen II system and check the 670 performance in it. WoW will tax my old cpu. If the 670 shows higher fps than I know the problem is the this APU/FM2 set up.

#44
Posted 05/04/2013 03:08 PM   
Games can have negative scaling. I went from a 7850 to 7950 and FPS went down in GTA4. Maybe try more than the games you are currently testing...
Games can have negative scaling. I went from a 7850 to 7950 and FPS went down in GTA4.

Maybe try more than the games you are currently testing...

#45
Posted 05/04/2013 04:00 PM   
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