are these going to be any brighter than 3d vision glasses (without lightboost) ?
does a projector using "3d tv play" rather than "3d vision" have any drawbacks?
"does a projector using "3d tv play" rather than "3d vision" have any drawbacks?"
Huge difference.
With 3D play you are limited to (motion) 24fps whereas with 3D vision, you have (motion) 60fps.
I don't believe that's true.
3d vision or 3d tv play are both limited to 24hz@1080p, or 60hz@720p when connected via HDMI (as all projectors are).
I'm running a projector with 3d tv play, and it's running at 720p/60hz. It's fantastic.
[quote="RAGEdemon"]I think you might be a little mixed up between FPS and Hz mate.[/quote]
Nah man, guybrush is right. Doesnt matter if its 3dtv play or 3d vision if you are using a projector, both are limited at 1080p to 24hz/24fps. I also dont see how hes mixed up between fps and hz?
RAGEdemon said:I think you might be a little mixed up between FPS and Hz mate.
Nah man, guybrush is right. Doesnt matter if its 3dtv play or 3d vision if you are using a projector, both are limited at 1080p to 24hz/24fps. I also dont see how hes mixed up between fps and hz?
There are no 1080p 3D Vision projectors.
I don't believe there are any HDMI 1.4 frame packing enabled projectors compatible with 3D vision.
3D Vision projectors such as mine produce 120Hz 60FPS at 720p.
With standard 60Hz projectors (non 3D vision compatible, non frame packing) you are limited to 60Hz in 3D i.e. 30FPS max, and 24Hz (presumably 12fps) at 1080p.
It would be interesting to see what the limits are on a 120Hz non-3Dvision projector or ones which make use of frame packing.
However, with 3D vision, you can supersample 1080p (and beyond, i.e. 4K) at 60fps 120Hz, whereas you would be restricted to 24Hz (and 12FPS, possibly 24FPS depending on frame packing support) with 3D play.
Also, you can play games in 2D at 120Hz 120FPS.
There are no 1080p 3D Vision projectors.
I don't believe there are any HDMI 1.4 frame packing enabled projectors compatible with 3D vision.
3D Vision projectors such as mine produce 120Hz 60FPS at 720p.
With standard 60Hz projectors (non 3D vision compatible, non frame packing) you are limited to 60Hz in 3D i.e. 30FPS max, and 24Hz (presumably 12fps) at 1080p.
It would be interesting to see what the limits are on a 120Hz non-3Dvision projector or ones which make use of frame packing.
However, with 3D vision, you can supersample 1080p (and beyond, i.e. 4K) at 60fps 120Hz, whereas you would be restricted to 24Hz (and 12FPS, possibly 24FPS depending on frame packing support) with 3D play.
Also, you can play games in 2D at 120Hz 120FPS.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Okay, we're a little mixed up here.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
However it's a little different to a monitor, in that the two images (to create the stereo effect) are broadcast at the same time, instead of alternating frames aka a monitor.
So a 3d projector at 60hz is projecting 120 frames per second, but it's doing it at 60hz. This is true of both 3d vision and 3d tv play.
I know this because I'm running 3d tv play, and I am very sensitive to framerate. To the point where I run a program called SVP to interpolate all my movies and television to 60fps. So when I say a 3d tv play projector is projecting at 60fps per eye/60hz/120fps total, I can be very confident that this is the case.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
However it's a little different to a monitor, in that the two images (to create the stereo effect) are broadcast at the same time, instead of alternating frames aka a monitor.
So a 3d projector at 60hz is projecting 120 frames per second, but it's doing it at 60hz. This is true of both 3d vision and 3d tv play.
I know this because I'm running 3d tv play, and I am very sensitive to framerate. To the point where I run a program called SVP to interpolate all my movies and television to 60fps. So when I say a 3d tv play projector is projecting at 60fps per eye/60hz/120fps total, I can be very confident that this is the case.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Okay, we're a little mixed up here.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
[/quote]
Sorry, no.
A 3D Vision projector runs at 720p 120Hz. I have one and can assure you of this ;-)
It displays 3D pretty much as a monitor does, via alternating frames. What you are thinking of is frame packing where the a projector takes an input of 60Hz frame packed signal where there are 2 frames in each sync, and displays 120FPS output.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]
I know this because I'm running 3d tv play, and I am very sensitive to framerate. To the point where I run a program called SVP to interpolate all my movies and television to 60fps. So when I say a 3d tv play projector is projecting at 60fps per eye/60hz/120fps total, I can be very confident that this is the case.
[/quote]
It was me who (probably) introduced you to SVP. I have been following the project since we had to manually code the smoothing using FFDShow and AVIsynth on the AVS forums back in 2008. By chance did you find out about it from my thread here?
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/518044/play-all-videos-at-120fps-bluray-dvd-anything-33-how-to-upsample-the-frame-rate-33-/[/url]
Pirateguybrush said:Okay, we're a little mixed up here.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
Sorry, no.
A 3D Vision projector runs at 720p 120Hz. I have one and can assure you of this ;-)
It displays 3D pretty much as a monitor does, via alternating frames. What you are thinking of is frame packing where the a projector takes an input of 60Hz frame packed signal where there are 2 frames in each sync, and displays 120FPS output.
Pirateguybrush said:
I know this because I'm running 3d tv play, and I am very sensitive to framerate. To the point where I run a program called SVP to interpolate all my movies and television to 60fps. So when I say a 3d tv play projector is projecting at 60fps per eye/60hz/120fps total, I can be very confident that this is the case.
It was me who (probably) introduced you to SVP. I have been following the project since we had to manually code the smoothing using FFDShow and AVIsynth on the AVS forums back in 2008. By chance did you find out about it from my thread here?
[quote="RAGEdemon"][quote="Pirateguybrush"]Okay, we're a little mixed up here.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
[/quote]
Sorry, no.
A 3D Vision projector runs at 720p 120Hz. I have one and can assure you of this ;-)
It displays 3D pretty much as a monitor does, via alternating frames. What you are thinking of is frame packing where the a projector takes an input of 60Hz frame packed signal where there are 2 frames in each sync, and displays 120FPS output.
[/quote]
720p/60hz 3dtv play is still 60fps per eye, not 30. Same with 120hz 3d vision pj, 60fps per eye. That is my understanding and my own personal experience(hd67n/hd66, w1070) without knowing any technicalities.
Pirateguybrush said:Okay, we're a little mixed up here.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
Sorry, no.
A 3D Vision projector runs at 720p 120Hz. I have one and can assure you of this ;-)
It displays 3D pretty much as a monitor does, via alternating frames. What you are thinking of is frame packing where the a projector takes an input of 60Hz frame packed signal where there are 2 frames in each sync, and displays 120FPS output.
720p/60hz 3dtv play is still 60fps per eye, not 30. Same with 120hz 3d vision pj, 60fps per eye. That is my understanding and my own personal experience(hd67n/hd66, w1070) without knowing any technicalities.
Thanks for the clarification.
Either way (as Sammy pointed out), both options deliver 60fps per eye. 3d tv play does so via frame packing, while 3d vision does it via a 120hz signal. But the end result is pretty much identical, isn't it?
As for SVP, I've been using it for a few years now. But it probably was your thread that made me think to use it in 3d.
Either way (as Sammy pointed out), both options deliver 60fps per eye. 3d tv play does so via frame packing, while 3d vision does it via a 120hz signal. But the end result is pretty much identical, isn't it?
As for SVP, I've been using it for a few years now. But it probably was your thread that made me think to use it in 3d.
Intrinsic frame packing is a relatively new standard. For non HDMI 1.4 projectors, you would still be limited to 30FPS even at 720p.
I would say that 3D Vision is superior because you can play 2D games at 120fps like with a true gaming monitor but with 0 pixel response time (due to DLP); instead of being limited to 60FPS.
Movies can also be upsampled to 120FPS with SVP.
Another huge advantage is that you can supersample 1080p (and beyond, i.e. 4K) at 60fps 120Hz, whereas you would be restricted to 24Hz with 3D play. Games with broken FSAA (huge jaggies on a huge screen), are no longer of great concern.
For people (both you and I) as sensitive to FPS as we are, I think you would appreciate these extra benefits :)
Intrinsic frame packing is a relatively new standard. For non HDMI 1.4 projectors, you would still be limited to 30FPS even at 720p.
I would say that 3D Vision is superior because you can play 2D games at 120fps like with a true gaming monitor but with 0 pixel response time (due to DLP); instead of being limited to 60FPS.
Movies can also be upsampled to 120FPS with SVP.
Another huge advantage is that you can supersample 1080p (and beyond, i.e. 4K) at 60fps 120Hz, whereas you would be restricted to 24Hz with 3D play. Games with broken FSAA (huge jaggies on a huge screen), are no longer of great concern.
For people (both you and I) as sensitive to FPS as we are, I think you would appreciate these extra benefits :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Okay, so with older projectors you'll be limited to 30fps. But newer ones (like the ones you'd actually be buying today) don't have that limitation.
If what Rage says is correct, a 3d vision projector can display a 2d game at 120hz. But for 3d, the experience is pretty much identical. Each eye sees 60fps at 720p, or 24fps at 1080p.
There are no projectors that can do 1080p/60hz 3d.
Okay, so with older projectors you'll be limited to 30fps. But newer ones (like the ones you'd actually be buying today) don't have that limitation.
If what Rage says is correct, a 3d vision projector can display a 2d game at 120hz. But for 3d, the experience is pretty much identical. Each eye sees 60fps at 720p, or 24fps at 1080p.
There are no projectors that can do 1080p/60hz 3d.
[quote="sleepwalker2"]ok just to make sure, can a 3d tv play projector play pc games at 720p @ 120 hz and 1080p @ 60 hz ?[/quote]
Sorry no.
But neither can a 3D Vision projector as there is no 1080p 3D vision projector.
So, either you can have a 3D Vision projector which plays 720p 120Hz, and you can downsample any resolution to this resolution.
Or you can have a 3D Play HDMI 1.4(a) projector which is 1080p native, which will do 720p @ 60Hz and 1080p @ 60Hz 2D / 24Hz 3D.
It is important to consider here why we want high resolution.
Is it because of higher detail? Not really. In games, even with next gen titles, textures are never very sharp to be able to take a good advantage of the high resolution.
Is it because of the higher poly count? Not really. The poly count in games is far lower than even a 720p projector can show.
In my opinion, it is because it gives less "jaggies".
If we ignore the marketing of HD and 4K, I believe this is the core of the matter. We, as gamers, want to eliminate jaggies.
If you look at a game at 720p without jaggies (downsampled) and then a game at 1080p with jaggies (standard or no FSAA), I would hypothesize that the vast majority of us would choose to play on the lower resolution but less jaggy 720p version.
It is for this reason, that I specifically stated in 2 of my above posts that you can downsample from higher resolutions to 720p and still get 120Hz 120FPS in 2D and 60FPS in 3D no matter which resolution you choose - even 4k (assuming you can get the timings to work).
In contrast, with 3D play, you would be limited to 24Hz/FPS. Yes you would have 1080p native, but is it worth it when you compare that image quality and FPS to a projector at 60FPS Downsampled?
I'll leave some downsampled screenshots here:
[url]http://www.tested.com/tech/454382-downsamling-and-pc-gaming-screenshot-culture/[/url]
sleepwalker2 said:ok just to make sure, can a 3d tv play projector play pc games at 720p @ 120 hz and 1080p @ 60 hz ?
Sorry no.
But neither can a 3D Vision projector as there is no 1080p 3D vision projector.
So, either you can have a 3D Vision projector which plays 720p 120Hz, and you can downsample any resolution to this resolution.
Or you can have a 3D Play HDMI 1.4(a) projector which is 1080p native, which will do 720p @ 60Hz and 1080p @ 60Hz 2D / 24Hz 3D.
It is important to consider here why we want high resolution.
Is it because of higher detail? Not really. In games, even with next gen titles, textures are never very sharp to be able to take a good advantage of the high resolution.
Is it because of the higher poly count? Not really. The poly count in games is far lower than even a 720p projector can show.
In my opinion, it is because it gives less "jaggies".
If we ignore the marketing of HD and 4K, I believe this is the core of the matter. We, as gamers, want to eliminate jaggies.
If you look at a game at 720p without jaggies (downsampled) and then a game at 1080p with jaggies (standard or no FSAA), I would hypothesize that the vast majority of us would choose to play on the lower resolution but less jaggy 720p version.
It is for this reason, that I specifically stated in 2 of my above posts that you can downsample from higher resolutions to 720p and still get 120Hz 120FPS in 2D and 60FPS in 3D no matter which resolution you choose - even 4k (assuming you can get the timings to work).
In contrast, with 3D play, you would be limited to 24Hz/FPS. Yes you would have 1080p native, but is it worth it when you compare that image quality and FPS to a projector at 60FPS Downsampled?
does a projector using "3d tv play" rather than "3d vision" have any drawbacks?
Huge difference.
With 3D play you are limited to (motion) 24fps whereas with 3D vision, you have (motion) 60fps.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
3d vision or 3d tv play are both limited to 24hz@1080p, or 60hz@720p when connected via HDMI (as all projectors are).
I'm running a projector with 3d tv play, and it's running at 720p/60hz. It's fantastic.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Nah man, guybrush is right. Doesnt matter if its 3dtv play or 3d vision if you are using a projector, both are limited at 1080p to 24hz/24fps. I also dont see how hes mixed up between fps and hz?
I don't believe there are any HDMI 1.4 frame packing enabled projectors compatible with 3D vision.
3D Vision projectors such as mine produce 120Hz 60FPS at 720p.
With standard 60Hz projectors (non 3D vision compatible, non frame packing) you are limited to 60Hz in 3D i.e. 30FPS max, and 24Hz (presumably 12fps) at 1080p.
It would be interesting to see what the limits are on a 120Hz non-3Dvision projector or ones which make use of frame packing.
However, with 3D vision, you can supersample 1080p (and beyond, i.e. 4K) at 60fps 120Hz, whereas you would be restricted to 24Hz (and 12FPS, possibly 24FPS depending on frame packing support) with 3D play.
Also, you can play games in 2D at 120Hz 120FPS.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
A 3d projector, whether running 3d vision or 3d tv play, can only transmit at 1080p/24hz, or 720p/60hz in 3d.
However it's a little different to a monitor, in that the two images (to create the stereo effect) are broadcast at the same time, instead of alternating frames aka a monitor.
So a 3d projector at 60hz is projecting 120 frames per second, but it's doing it at 60hz. This is true of both 3d vision and 3d tv play.
I know this because I'm running 3d tv play, and I am very sensitive to framerate. To the point where I run a program called SVP to interpolate all my movies and television to 60fps. So when I say a 3d tv play projector is projecting at 60fps per eye/60hz/120fps total, I can be very confident that this is the case.
Sorry, no.
A 3D Vision projector runs at 720p 120Hz. I have one and can assure you of this ;-)
It displays 3D pretty much as a monitor does, via alternating frames. What you are thinking of is frame packing where the a projector takes an input of 60Hz frame packed signal where there are 2 frames in each sync, and displays 120FPS output.
It was me who (probably) introduced you to SVP. I have been following the project since we had to manually code the smoothing using FFDShow and AVIsynth on the AVS forums back in 2008. By chance did you find out about it from my thread here?
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/518044/play-all-videos-at-120fps-bluray-dvd-anything-33-how-to-upsample-the-frame-rate-33-/
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
720p/60hz 3dtv play is still 60fps per eye, not 30. Same with 120hz 3d vision pj, 60fps per eye. That is my understanding and my own personal experience(hd67n/hd66, w1070) without knowing any technicalities.
Either way (as Sammy pointed out), both options deliver 60fps per eye. 3d tv play does so via frame packing, while 3d vision does it via a 120hz signal. But the end result is pretty much identical, isn't it?
As for SVP, I've been using it for a few years now. But it probably was your thread that made me think to use it in 3d.
I would say that 3D Vision is superior because you can play 2D games at 120fps like with a true gaming monitor but with 0 pixel response time (due to DLP); instead of being limited to 60FPS.
Movies can also be upsampled to 120FPS with SVP.
Another huge advantage is that you can supersample 1080p (and beyond, i.e. 4K) at 60fps 120Hz, whereas you would be restricted to 24Hz with 3D play. Games with broken FSAA (huge jaggies on a huge screen), are no longer of great concern.
For people (both you and I) as sensitive to FPS as we are, I think you would appreciate these extra benefits :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
If what Rage says is correct, a 3d vision projector can display a 2d game at 120hz. But for 3d, the experience is pretty much identical. Each eye sees 60fps at 720p, or 24fps at 1080p.
There are no projectors that can do 1080p/60hz 3d.
Sorry no.
But neither can a 3D Vision projector as there is no 1080p 3D vision projector.
So, either you can have a 3D Vision projector which plays 720p 120Hz, and you can downsample any resolution to this resolution.
Or you can have a 3D Play HDMI 1.4(a) projector which is 1080p native, which will do 720p @ 60Hz and 1080p @ 60Hz 2D / 24Hz 3D.
It is important to consider here why we want high resolution.
Is it because of higher detail? Not really. In games, even with next gen titles, textures are never very sharp to be able to take a good advantage of the high resolution.
Is it because of the higher poly count? Not really. The poly count in games is far lower than even a 720p projector can show.
In my opinion, it is because it gives less "jaggies".
If we ignore the marketing of HD and 4K, I believe this is the core of the matter. We, as gamers, want to eliminate jaggies.
If you look at a game at 720p without jaggies (downsampled) and then a game at 1080p with jaggies (standard or no FSAA), I would hypothesize that the vast majority of us would choose to play on the lower resolution but less jaggy 720p version.
It is for this reason, that I specifically stated in 2 of my above posts that you can downsample from higher resolutions to 720p and still get 120Hz 120FPS in 2D and 60FPS in 3D no matter which resolution you choose - even 4k (assuming you can get the timings to work).
In contrast, with 3D play, you would be limited to 24Hz/FPS. Yes you would have 1080p native, but is it worth it when you compare that image quality and FPS to a projector at 60FPS Downsampled?
I'll leave some downsampled screenshots here:
http://www.tested.com/tech/454382-downsamling-and-pc-gaming-screenshot-culture/
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.