Beginner's Guide to Understanding and Using NVIDIA 3D Vision/3DTV Play (WIP)
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***Note: This thread isn't for 3D Vision/3DTV Play Support... for Help getting Stereoscopic 3D enabled on your specific hardware; [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/824274/]Search the 3D Vision Forum[/url], find a topic that relates to your situation and post in it. If you can't find a topic that relates to your situation then create a new one... Please do a thorough [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/824274/]Search[/url] before creating new topics...***
That said, lacuna wrote a great [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1023184/3d-vision/basic-guide-for-passive-3dtvs-edids-4k-upscaling/]Guide for Passive 3DTVs, EDIDs, 4K, Upscaling[/url] which is definitely worth mentioning at the start here for anyone who may be interested.
So you've effectively enabled Stereoscopic 3D gaming via 3D Vision or 3DTV Play, now what? There's a few things that you can do and others that you'll have to do enhance this incredible experience.
[list][list]QuickStart:
[olist][.]Set Depth to 100% or your [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/990713/]IPD[/url], if it's comfortable. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time.[/.]
[.]Enable [url=http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2943/]Advanced In-Game Settings[/url] to adjust Convergence in most games[/.]
[.]Get 3D Community game fixes [url=http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2013/10/game-list-automatically-updated.html]here[/url][/.][/olist]
… and most importantly be involved in the community! :)
[.]Increase/Decrease Depth(Ctrl+F4/Ctrl+F3): Visible OSD. This governs the Separation of the L/R Channels or Views, often referred to as either Depth or Separation. This is a Global Setting, meaning whenever you make an in-game adjustment it is automatically saved and it is then used Globally until next time you change it or you install Drivers.[/.]
[.]Toggle Stereoscopic 3D(Ctrl+T): Visible OSD. Toggles Stereoscopic 3D On/Off. 3D Vision/3DTV Play will still be enabled so you will still see a slight hit to performance, the only way around this is to turn off Stereoscopic 3D completely in the NVIDIA Control Panel.[/.]
[.]Toggle 3D Laser Sight(Ctrl+F12): Visible OSD. A Dynamic 3D LaserSight to replace a static 2D in-game Crosshair, this unfortunately doesn't work in all games and if it does then the in-game 2D Crosshair will need to be disabled it at all possible. If the LaserSight works properly in a game but needs to be tweaked to a different location check my Guide on how to offset it's location on screen [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/813727/]here[/url].[/.]
[.]Toggle In-Game Compatibility(Ctrl+Alt+Insert): Toggles On/Off the Green Game Info text on the bottom-right-hand corner of the screen.[/.]
[.]Increase/Decrease Convergence(Ctrl+F6/Ctrl+F5): No OSD. This governs the Point at which the L/R Channels or Views Converge, Intersect or Cross. By Default the Keyboard Shortcuts are disabled for this Setting. Also, this isn't a Global Setting, meaning whenever you make adjustments to this Setting they must be saved using Save In-Game Settings(Ctrl+F7).[/.]
[.]Cycle Frustrum Adjustment(Ctrl+F11): No OSD. I'm not exactly sure how to explain this Setting, basically some games may exhibit oddities on the Left and Right edges of the screen, this toggles between 3 states, black bars, no bars, and zooming in slightly to cover up the areas. Setting Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in the NVIDIA Control Panel should eliminate the need for this.(NVIDIA Control Panel > 3D Settings > Manage 3D Settings > Global Settings > Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames > 1)[/.]
[.]Toggle Compatibility Mode(Ctrl+Alt+F11): Toggles On/Off Compatibility Mode(NVIDIA's flagship fake 3D) in DX10/11 games that support it, such as Bioshock Infinite and Assassin's Creed III.[/.]
[.]Save In-Game Changes(Ctrl+F7): Visible OSD. Creates and/or Saves In-Game Settings to a Profile. Doesn't work with some games, for instance some will say Configuration Saved and reset to it's default settings.[/.]
More Advanced/Useful Tweaks:
[.]Guide to Remove 'Green Info' text on Start, Fix Profile Saving Issues, Etc., link [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/836462/3d-vision/guide-how-to-tweak-global-base-profile-settings-disable-green-info-text-fix-profile-saving-issues/]here[/url].[/.]
[.]Guide to adjusting 100% Depth to equal your IPD, link [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/990713/]here[/url].[/.]
More About Depth/Convergence:
[.]Depth: The default Depth/Separation is set to 15%, which really isn't much at all. Depending on your Display this might be equal to about .375”(9.5mm) of Separation. Most experienced users play at or around a Depth/Separation equal to their [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/990713/]IPD[/url](Interpupillary Distance) or the Distance between their Pupils, an average of 2.5”(6.3cm), some still don't and yet others will attempt to push it beyond.
In the end, Depth is all up to your personal preference and what you feel your eyes can handle. If maxing it to 100%/[url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/990713/]IPD[/url] causes you too much eyestrain at first, you can try to gradually increase it over time and see if that works for you. If not, you can simply just play at a lower setting.[/.]
[.]Convergence: Is disabled by default, this Setting can be a bit confusing at first until you fully understand what it is that this Setting is doing, especially as there is no OSD telling you what value it is currently set at when you're increasing/decreasing it, like there is with Depth, and in some games it can take a long time to for it to even make any noticeable difference in-game.
Convergence can be considered more important than Depth/Separation but technically they both work hand in hand. Depth is how far back into the screen the scene is pushed, if Depth is set to your [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/990713/]IPD[/url] then it should appear like the scene stretches to infinity and Convergence governs the Point at which the two views Converge/Intersect and then Diverge/Separate again. The actual point of Convergence is rarely ever visible by default in a game, it's usually somewhere far far behind your head ... if it even is at all, 3D technically only needs two distinct parallel views to work.
In order to enhance the effect of Stereoscopic 3D we generally exaggerate it by making or pushing the point of Convergence from behind our head to into our view and onto the screen, crossing the two views at a certain point and effectively compressing more Depth into the scene. Anything on the screen that crosses that point of Convergence effectively becomes 'popout' and appears like it's coming out of the screen.
Depending on the game and your setup, some games can be pushed to the point that the game is coming out of the screen, effectively looking holographic toys floating in the space in front of you, typically called Toyification or the Doll House effect ... more on that [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/467750/]here[/url] and more recently [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/545286/]here[/url].
A good example is Dead Space without Helix's fix the game is a mess in 3D but you can lower the Depth to about 1% and then just use Convergence to make the game look incredible just by pushing it out of the screen, another one is [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/825787/]American McGee's Alice[/url] which is literally all pop-out, infinity is set to screen depth/2D and everything else pops out of the screen.
Depth/Convergence Discussion(s): [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1024238/3d-vision/3d-vision-2-n00b/post/5213407/#5213407]link w/ comparison pics[/url][/.]
3D Fixes: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/
For the most part it's as simple as downloading a game's fix, usually a *.zip file, and extracting the contents, unless otherwise noted, to the folder where the game's exe is located. It's a good idea to scroll through and especially down to the bottom of the comments as most of the current issues and quite possibly their fixes are sometimes located there, for instance the Dead Space is listed as not being compatible with the Origin version when in fact it was at the time of me checking into it, it was simply an issue with the Origin overlay. Generally a fixes' file structure looks like so:
[.]HelixMod Fix:
ShaderOverride\PixelShaders\*.txt
ShaderOverride\VertexShaders\*.txt
DX9Settings.ini
d3d9.dll
[quote]If you're not playing at 100% Depth, most fixes will overwrite your Depth/Separation Setting to 100%. A simple way around this is to Open the DX9Settings.ini and either comment(; or //) out the 'Separation = 0x42a00001' Lines or Delete them entirely and then the fix will use your Global Depth Setting.
If a HelixMod is using Presets, usually defined on the fixes' page, they are generally Saved by Selecting the Preset, making the necessary changes to Depth/Convergence and hitting the F7 Key to Save, the game will then need to be exited and restarted for the changes to take effect. If a Key must be held down for a Preset to work then that Key must be held down for the entire process of Setting and Saving(F7). This process can be done manually via editing the DX9Settings.ini. Unlike saving a Driver Profile(Ctrl+F7), saving a HelixMod Preset will Save both Separation and Convergence to any Selected Preset.[/quote][/.]
[.]3DMigoto Fix:
ShaderFixes\*.txt, *.hlsl
d3d11.dll
d3dcompiler_46.dll
d3dx.ini
nvapi.dll(nvapi64.dll)
uninstall.bat
[quote][.]Notes:?[/.]
[/quote][/.]
MonitorSizeOverride/DepthHack:
[.]Generally MonitorSizeOverried is only necessary if your Monitor/TV isn't registering as it's correct size in the registry, if you're using a DLP Projector, or if it's necessary to make a [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/700536/legend-of-dungeon-or-to-slay-a-depthless-beast-/]game playable[/url] in 3D. The reason MonitorSizeOverride/DepthHacks is/are necessary is the the Drivers rewrite the MonitorSize Value in the Registry every time 3D is triggered, so if you changed the Value to match your setup the Drivers will promptly overwrite it when you go to use 3D Vision. You can find more information MonitorSizeOverride and how to use it [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/930853/monitorsizeoverride-depthhacks-obsolete-/]here[/url].[/.][/list][/list]
***Note: This thread isn't for 3D Vision/3DTV Play Support... for Help getting Stereoscopic 3D enabled on your specific hardware; Search the 3D Vision Forum, find a topic that relates to your situation and post in it. If you can't find a topic that relates to your situation then create a new one... Please do a thorough Search before creating new topics...***
So you've effectively enabled Stereoscopic 3D gaming via 3D Vision or 3DTV Play, now what? There's a few things that you can do and others that you'll have to do enhance this incredible experience.
QuickStart:
Set Depth to 100% or your IPD, if it's comfortable. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time.
… and most importantly be involved in the community! :)
Increase/Decrease Depth(Ctrl+F4/Ctrl+F3): Visible OSD. This governs the Separation of the L/R Channels or Views, often referred to as either Depth or Separation. This is a Global Setting, meaning whenever you make an in-game adjustment it is automatically saved and it is then used Globally until next time you change it or you install Drivers.
Toggle Stereoscopic 3D(Ctrl+T): Visible OSD. Toggles Stereoscopic 3D On/Off. 3D Vision/3DTV Play will still be enabled so you will still see a slight hit to performance, the only way around this is to turn off Stereoscopic 3D completely in the NVIDIA Control Panel.
Toggle 3D Laser Sight(Ctrl+F12): Visible OSD. A Dynamic 3D LaserSight to replace a static 2D in-game Crosshair, this unfortunately doesn't work in all games and if it does then the in-game 2D Crosshair will need to be disabled it at all possible. If the LaserSight works properly in a game but needs to be tweaked to a different location check my Guide on how to offset it's location on screen here.
Toggle In-Game Compatibility(Ctrl+Alt+Insert): Toggles On/Off the Green Game Info text on the bottom-right-hand corner of the screen.
Increase/Decrease Convergence(Ctrl+F6/Ctrl+F5): No OSD. This governs the Point at which the L/R Channels or Views Converge, Intersect or Cross. By Default the Keyboard Shortcuts are disabled for this Setting. Also, this isn't a Global Setting, meaning whenever you make adjustments to this Setting they must be saved using Save In-Game Settings(Ctrl+F7).
Cycle Frustrum Adjustment(Ctrl+F11): No OSD. I'm not exactly sure how to explain this Setting, basically some games may exhibit oddities on the Left and Right edges of the screen, this toggles between 3 states, black bars, no bars, and zooming in slightly to cover up the areas. Setting Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in the NVIDIA Control Panel should eliminate the need for this.(NVIDIA Control Panel > 3D Settings > Manage 3D Settings > Global Settings > Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames > 1)
Toggle Compatibility Mode(Ctrl+Alt+F11): Toggles On/Off Compatibility Mode(NVIDIA's flagship fake 3D) in DX10/11 games that support it, such as Bioshock Infinite and Assassin's Creed III.
Save In-Game Changes(Ctrl+F7): Visible OSD. Creates and/or Saves In-Game Settings to a Profile. Doesn't work with some games, for instance some will say Configuration Saved and reset to it's default settings.
More Advanced/Useful Tweaks:
Guide to Remove 'Green Info' text on Start, Fix Profile Saving Issues, Etc., link here.
Guide to adjusting 100% Depth to equal your IPD, link here.
More About Depth/Convergence:
Depth: The default Depth/Separation is set to 15%, which really isn't much at all. Depending on your Display this might be equal to about .375”(9.5mm) of Separation. Most experienced users play at or around a Depth/Separation equal to their IPD(Interpupillary Distance) or the Distance between their Pupils, an average of 2.5”(6.3cm), some still don't and yet others will attempt to push it beyond.
In the end, Depth is all up to your personal preference and what you feel your eyes can handle. If maxing it to 100%/IPD causes you too much eyestrain at first, you can try to gradually increase it over time and see if that works for you. If not, you can simply just play at a lower setting.
Convergence: Is disabled by default, this Setting can be a bit confusing at first until you fully understand what it is that this Setting is doing, especially as there is no OSD telling you what value it is currently set at when you're increasing/decreasing it, like there is with Depth, and in some games it can take a long time to for it to even make any noticeable difference in-game.
Convergence can be considered more important than Depth/Separation but technically they both work hand in hand. Depth is how far back into the screen the scene is pushed, if Depth is set to your IPD then it should appear like the scene stretches to infinity and Convergence governs the Point at which the two views Converge/Intersect and then Diverge/Separate again. The actual point of Convergence is rarely ever visible by default in a game, it's usually somewhere far far behind your head ... if it even is at all, 3D technically only needs two distinct parallel views to work.
In order to enhance the effect of Stereoscopic 3D we generally exaggerate it by making or pushing the point of Convergence from behind our head to into our view and onto the screen, crossing the two views at a certain point and effectively compressing more Depth into the scene. Anything on the screen that crosses that point of Convergence effectively becomes 'popout' and appears like it's coming out of the screen.
Depending on the game and your setup, some games can be pushed to the point that the game is coming out of the screen, effectively looking holographic toys floating in the space in front of you, typically called Toyification or the Doll House effect ... more on that here and more recently here.
A good example is Dead Space without Helix's fix the game is a mess in 3D but you can lower the Depth to about 1% and then just use Convergence to make the game look incredible just by pushing it out of the screen, another one is American McGee's Alice which is literally all pop-out, infinity is set to screen depth/2D and everything else pops out of the screen.
For the most part it's as simple as downloading a game's fix, usually a *.zip file, and extracting the contents, unless otherwise noted, to the folder where the game's exe is located. It's a good idea to scroll through and especially down to the bottom of the comments as most of the current issues and quite possibly their fixes are sometimes located there, for instance the Dead Space is listed as not being compatible with the Origin version when in fact it was at the time of me checking into it, it was simply an issue with the Origin overlay. Generally a fixes' file structure looks like so:
If you're not playing at 100% Depth, most fixes will overwrite your Depth/Separation Setting to 100%. A simple way around this is to Open the DX9Settings.ini and either comment(; or //) out the 'Separation = 0x42a00001' Lines or Delete them entirely and then the fix will use your Global Depth Setting.
If a HelixMod is using Presets, usually defined on the fixes' page, they are generally Saved by Selecting the Preset, making the necessary changes to Depth/Convergence and hitting the F7 Key to Save, the game will then need to be exited and restarted for the changes to take effect. If a Key must be held down for a Preset to work then that Key must be held down for the entire process of Setting and Saving(F7). This process can be done manually via editing the DX9Settings.ini. Unlike saving a Driver Profile(Ctrl+F7), saving a HelixMod Preset will Save both Separation and Convergence to any Selected Preset.
Generally MonitorSizeOverried is only necessary if your Monitor/TV isn't registering as it's correct size in the registry, if you're using a DLP Projector, or if it's necessary to make a game playable in 3D. The reason MonitorSizeOverride/DepthHacks is/are necessary is the the Drivers rewrite the MonitorSize Value in the Registry every time 3D is triggered, so if you changed the Value to match your setup the Drivers will promptly overwrite it when you go to use 3D Vision. You can find more information MonitorSizeOverride and how to use it here.
Thanks for doing this. When I was a new snot nosed kid to 3D Vision, a guide like this would of been very handy. I learned through trial and error.
In fact, your information for Cycle Frustrum was very useful to me now. I just tested Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames on Gothic 3 to 1 and it eliminated the need to use Ctrl + F11 in game to eliminate the vertical black bars on each side when in 3D.
This information will be useful, especially for newcomers to 3D Vision.
Thanks for doing this. When I was a new snot nosed kid to 3D Vision, a guide like this would of been very handy. I learned through trial and error.
In fact, your information for Cycle Frustrum was very useful to me now. I just tested Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames on Gothic 3 to 1 and it eliminated the need to use Ctrl + F11 in game to eliminate the vertical black bars on each side when in 3D.
This information will be useful, especially for newcomers to 3D Vision.
As a newcomer to 3D Vision/3TDV Play (from Ignition), I appreciate the great information and effort that TsaebehT has provided! Very helpful.
If TsaebehT has time, it would be helpful to also discussion convergence-locked games and any potential ways to override these restrictions.
Great guide! The way you define convergence is a bit different to how I've been describing it - I tend to think of it as defining the distance into the scene which is at screen depth (this is how the maths work out). Too low and the whole scene will look like it is somewhere off in the distance, too high and some of the scene may have come so far out of the screen that it is behind you (technically not, but whatever) and difficult or even impossible to focus on.
Another consequence is that the ideal convergence for a given game will not only depend on personal preference, but (I assume) also how far you sit from the screen - a monitor is likely to require a much lower convergence than a projector for the best 3D effect (maybe someone with a projector can confirm?)
Great guide! The way you define convergence is a bit different to how I've been describing it - I tend to think of it as defining the distance into the scene which is at screen depth (this is how the maths work out). Too low and the whole scene will look like it is somewhere off in the distance, too high and some of the scene may have come so far out of the screen that it is behind you (technically not, but whatever) and difficult or even impossible to focus on.
Another consequence is that the ideal convergence for a given game will not only depend on personal preference, but (I assume) also how far you sit from the screen - a monitor is likely to require a much lower convergence than a projector for the best 3D effect (maybe someone with a projector can confirm?)
2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit
Great guide. Might be worth putting in a section for common troubleshooting tips. You could talk about DDU, and the guide about laptops and 3D vision. Also wouldn't hurt to mention the state of youtube + 3D, and how to upgrade the nVidia 3d video player.
Probably worth making a note on the correct upgrade procedure for a new version of a helixmod/3dmigoto fix. Aka removing the old one/running uninstall.bat first.
Great guide. Might be worth putting in a section for common troubleshooting tips. You could talk about DDU, and the guide about laptops and 3D vision. Also wouldn't hurt to mention the state of youtube + 3D, and how to upgrade the nVidia 3d video player.
Probably worth making a note on the correct upgrade procedure for a new version of a helixmod/3dmigoto fix. Aka removing the old one/running uninstall.bat first.
Good stuff, for sure.
I would recommend not starting with depth at 100%, I think that is bad advice. Especially for newcomers, they may immediately give themselves a headache if they crank it all the way up. On monitors, I never use 100%. The best advice there is to turn it up higher, but keep it where it feels right and is interesting, not necessarily 100%.
I would recommend not starting with depth at 100%, I think that is bad advice. Especially for newcomers, they may immediately give themselves a headache if they crank it all the way up. On monitors, I never use 100%. The best advice there is to turn it up higher, but keep it where it feels right and is interesting, not necessarily 100%.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Is here a guide somewhere which TVs are compatible?
Id like to get a 65 inch TV to support this but I have no idea which ones to look at to be honest.
ASUS VG278H - 3D Vision 2 - Driver 358.87 - Titan X SLI@1519Mhz - i7-4930K@4.65GHz - 16GB RAM - Win7x64 - Samsung SSD 850 PRO (256GB) and Samsung EVO 850 (1TB) - Full EK Custom Waterloop - Project Milkyway Galaxy (3D Mark Firestrike Hall of Famer)
Hey, I have a passive 3dtv 55in 1080p and I currently use tridef and it works well for some games but plan on upgrading my pc with a 970m card or a 980m sometime this year. I just need to know what exactly do I need to get my laptop to display 3d games on the 3dtv via hdmi?
Hey, I have a passive 3dtv 55in 1080p and I currently use tridef and it works well for some games but plan on upgrading my pc with a 970m card or a 980m sometime this year. I just need to know what exactly do I need to get my laptop to display 3d games on the 3dtv via hdmi?
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
[b]Editing my ols Question into an Answer...[/b]
My new TV, a SONY KD-75S9005B, using Active 3D Glasses is working fine with my GTX 780.
[b]New Question replacing the old one...[/b]
Is my understanding right that 3D is, regardless of the GPU we're using, capped at 1920x1080 @ 24Hz or 1280x720 @ 60Hz?
Editing my ols Question into an Answer...
My new TV, a SONY KD-75S9005B, using Active 3D Glasses is working fine with my GTX 780.
New Question replacing the old one...
Is my understanding right that 3D is, regardless of the GPU we're using, capped at 1920x1080 @ 24Hz or 1280x720 @ 60Hz?
[quote]Is my understanding right that 3D is, regardless of the GPU we're using, capped at 1920x1080 @ 24Hz or 1280x720 @ 60Hz?[/quote]
This is true for 3DTV Play only.
But at least with my LG65UG8709 (LG65UG870V) 4K TV there is also a "HDMI-Checkerboard" option offered by 3DTV Play when using the regular LG EDID info (without an override). Unfortunatelly the LG only supports checkerboard input for 720p and 1080p (though both @ 60Hz), while 3DTV Play can ouput checkerboard at all resolutions up to 4K.
I'm unsure if this option would be provided by a 3DTV Play license alone, which I don't own. I have actually the 3D vision pyramid connected to my PC (just used as "dongle" to get the 3D Vision/3DTV Play options). Of course I'm using the passive 3D glasses provided by LG.
With the ACER/LG EDID override I actually get line interleaved output for any resolution, which the LG is able to use at 720p, 1080p and 2160p (4K) resolutions. The first 2 actually need active processing by the LG TV (3D must be activated with line interleaved input selected), while at 4K the 3D "just works", because it exactly fits the polarisation filter layout of the passive LG display.
So, since there is no mandatory 3D frame packing for 4K @ 60Hz defined in the HDMI 2.0 spec, 4K line interleaved 3D is the best currently technical possible with the nVidia driver. This actually corresponds to 3840 x 1080 (2 * HD) resolution per eye, which looks insanely good at a 65" display with 1,2 m viewing distance!
Is my understanding right that 3D is, regardless of the GPU we're using, capped at 1920x1080 @ 24Hz or 1280x720 @ 60Hz?
This is true for 3DTV Play only.
But at least with my LG65UG8709 (LG65UG870V) 4K TV there is also a "HDMI-Checkerboard" option offered by 3DTV Play when using the regular LG EDID info (without an override). Unfortunatelly the LG only supports checkerboard input for 720p and 1080p (though both @ 60Hz), while 3DTV Play can ouput checkerboard at all resolutions up to 4K.
I'm unsure if this option would be provided by a 3DTV Play license alone, which I don't own. I have actually the 3D vision pyramid connected to my PC (just used as "dongle" to get the 3D Vision/3DTV Play options). Of course I'm using the passive 3D glasses provided by LG.
With the ACER/LG EDID override I actually get line interleaved output for any resolution, which the LG is able to use at 720p, 1080p and 2160p (4K) resolutions. The first 2 actually need active processing by the LG TV (3D must be activated with line interleaved input selected), while at 4K the 3D "just works", because it exactly fits the polarisation filter layout of the passive LG display.
So, since there is no mandatory 3D frame packing for 4K @ 60Hz defined in the HDMI 2.0 spec, 4K line interleaved 3D is the best currently technical possible with the nVidia driver. This actually corresponds to 3840 x 1080 (2 * HD) resolution per eye, which looks insanely good at a 65" display with 1,2 m viewing distance!
Here are the problems with this guide:
1. Step 1 includes the text "IPD" without a definition. How would a beginner know what those three letters mean?
2. Depth (in 3D vision) is specified/measured as a percent, not as a length. Interpupillary Distance (as a length) does not apply to 3D Vision. Depth can not be set as a length. Therefore, remove all references to IPD in this guide, especially since this is a beginner's guide.
3. Start depth at 100% is a terrible idea for 3D Vision. Might be fine for 3D TV Play with Large screen TV's and projector's viewed at far distance, but it causes great eye strain on monitors viewed at close distance. I know because, when I first began using 3D vision, I was not aware of the convergence adjustment, and instead, I only increased depth. Every game I played in 3D caused me eye strain and eventually a mild headache, and I accepted it. Eventually, I discovered that convergence can be changed. Since that day, no more eye strain and no more headaches. Why? because I never increase depth to more than 50%, and instead, I adjust the convergence. Too much convergence has never given me a headache.
Just in case anyone at Nvidia is reading this ....
Convergence adjustment should be automatically enabled because it's very important to having an enjoyable 3D experience. During the "Enable stereoscopic 3D" process, I recommend adding a step which instructs the user to adjust depth and convergence (or at least show the user what happens when depth/convergence are adjusted). As you already know, 3D which is not properly adjusted can cause eye strain and headaches or appear flat or have too much/little convergence (or depth). First impressions are very important.
1. Step 1 includes the text "IPD" without a definition. How would a beginner know what those three letters mean?
2. Depth (in 3D vision) is specified/measured as a percent, not as a length. Interpupillary Distance (as a length) does not apply to 3D Vision. Depth can not be set as a length. Therefore, remove all references to IPD in this guide, especially since this is a beginner's guide.
3. Start depth at 100% is a terrible idea for 3D Vision. Might be fine for 3D TV Play with Large screen TV's and projector's viewed at far distance, but it causes great eye strain on monitors viewed at close distance. I know because, when I first began using 3D vision, I was not aware of the convergence adjustment, and instead, I only increased depth. Every game I played in 3D caused me eye strain and eventually a mild headache, and I accepted it. Eventually, I discovered that convergence can be changed. Since that day, no more eye strain and no more headaches. Why? because I never increase depth to more than 50%, and instead, I adjust the convergence. Too much convergence has never given me a headache.
Just in case anyone at Nvidia is reading this ....
Convergence adjustment should be automatically enabled because it's very important to having an enjoyable 3D experience. During the "Enable stereoscopic 3D" process, I recommend adding a step which instructs the user to adjust depth and convergence (or at least show the user what happens when depth/convergence are adjusted). As you already know, 3D which is not properly adjusted can cause eye strain and headaches or appear flat or have too much/little convergence (or depth). First impressions are very important.
That said, lacuna wrote a great Guide for Passive 3DTVs, EDIDs, 4K, Upscaling which is definitely worth mentioning at the start here for anyone who may be interested.
So you've effectively enabled Stereoscopic 3D gaming via 3D Vision or 3DTV Play, now what? There's a few things that you can do and others that you'll have to do enhance this incredible experience.
QuickStart:
- Set Depth to 100% or your IPD, if it's comfortable. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time.
- Enable Advanced In-Game Settings to adjust Convergence in most games
- Get 3D Community game fixes here
- Increase/Decrease Depth(Ctrl+F4/Ctrl+F3): Visible OSD. This governs the Separation of the L/R Channels or Views, often referred to as either Depth or Separation. This is a Global Setting, meaning whenever you make an in-game adjustment it is automatically saved and it is then used Globally until next time you change it or you install Drivers.
- Toggle Stereoscopic 3D(Ctrl+T): Visible OSD. Toggles Stereoscopic 3D On/Off. 3D Vision/3DTV Play will still be enabled so you will still see a slight hit to performance, the only way around this is to turn off Stereoscopic 3D completely in the NVIDIA Control Panel.
- Toggle 3D Laser Sight(Ctrl+F12): Visible OSD. A Dynamic 3D LaserSight to replace a static 2D in-game Crosshair, this unfortunately doesn't work in all games and if it does then the in-game 2D Crosshair will need to be disabled it at all possible. If the LaserSight works properly in a game but needs to be tweaked to a different location check my Guide on how to offset it's location on screen here.
- Toggle In-Game Compatibility(Ctrl+Alt+Insert): Toggles On/Off the Green Game Info text on the bottom-right-hand corner of the screen.
- Increase/Decrease Convergence(Ctrl+F6/Ctrl+F5): No OSD. This governs the Point at which the L/R Channels or Views Converge, Intersect or Cross. By Default the Keyboard Shortcuts are disabled for this Setting. Also, this isn't a Global Setting, meaning whenever you make adjustments to this Setting they must be saved using Save In-Game Settings(Ctrl+F7).
- Cycle Frustrum Adjustment(Ctrl+F11): No OSD. I'm not exactly sure how to explain this Setting, basically some games may exhibit oddities on the Left and Right edges of the screen, this toggles between 3 states, black bars, no bars, and zooming in slightly to cover up the areas. Setting Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in the NVIDIA Control Panel should eliminate the need for this.(NVIDIA Control Panel > 3D Settings > Manage 3D Settings > Global Settings > Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames > 1)
- Toggle Compatibility Mode(Ctrl+Alt+F11): Toggles On/Off Compatibility Mode(NVIDIA's flagship fake 3D) in DX10/11 games that support it, such as Bioshock Infinite and Assassin's Creed III.
- Save In-Game Changes(Ctrl+F7): Visible OSD. Creates and/or Saves In-Game Settings to a Profile. Doesn't work with some games, for instance some will say Configuration Saved and reset to it's default settings.
- Guide to Remove 'Green Info' text on Start, Fix Profile Saving Issues, Etc., link here.
- Guide to adjusting 100% Depth to equal your IPD, link here.
- Depth: The default Depth/Separation is set to 15%, which really isn't much at all. Depending on your Display this might be equal to about .375”(9.5mm) of Separation. Most experienced users play at or around a Depth/Separation equal to their IPD(Interpupillary Distance) or the Distance between their Pupils, an average of 2.5”(6.3cm), some still don't and yet others will attempt to push it beyond.
- Convergence: Is disabled by default, this Setting can be a bit confusing at first until you fully understand what it is that this Setting is doing, especially as there is no OSD telling you what value it is currently set at when you're increasing/decreasing it, like there is with Depth, and in some games it can take a long time to for it to even make any noticeable difference in-game.
- HelixMod Fix:
- 3DMigoto Fix:
- Generally MonitorSizeOverried is only necessary if your Monitor/TV isn't registering as it's correct size in the registry, if you're using a DLP Projector, or if it's necessary to make a game playable in 3D. The reason MonitorSizeOverride/DepthHacks is/are necessary is the the Drivers rewrite the MonitorSize Value in the Registry every time 3D is triggered, so if you changed the Value to match your setup the Drivers will promptly overwrite it when you go to use 3D Vision. You can find more information MonitorSizeOverride and how to use it here.
… and most importantly be involved in the community! :)
More Advanced/Useful Tweaks:
More About Depth/Convergence:
In the end, Depth is all up to your personal preference and what you feel your eyes can handle. If maxing it to 100%/IPD causes you too much eyestrain at first, you can try to gradually increase it over time and see if that works for you. If not, you can simply just play at a lower setting.
Convergence can be considered more important than Depth/Separation but technically they both work hand in hand. Depth is how far back into the screen the scene is pushed, if Depth is set to your IPD then it should appear like the scene stretches to infinity and Convergence governs the Point at which the two views Converge/Intersect and then Diverge/Separate again. The actual point of Convergence is rarely ever visible by default in a game, it's usually somewhere far far behind your head ... if it even is at all, 3D technically only needs two distinct parallel views to work.
In order to enhance the effect of Stereoscopic 3D we generally exaggerate it by making or pushing the point of Convergence from behind our head to into our view and onto the screen, crossing the two views at a certain point and effectively compressing more Depth into the scene. Anything on the screen that crosses that point of Convergence effectively becomes 'popout' and appears like it's coming out of the screen.
Depending on the game and your setup, some games can be pushed to the point that the game is coming out of the screen, effectively looking holographic toys floating in the space in front of you, typically called Toyification or the Doll House effect ... more on that here and more recently here.
A good example is Dead Space without Helix's fix the game is a mess in 3D but you can lower the Depth to about 1% and then just use Convergence to make the game look incredible just by pushing it out of the screen, another one is American McGee's Alice which is literally all pop-out, infinity is set to screen depth/2D and everything else pops out of the screen.
Depth/Convergence Discussion(s): link w/ comparison pics
3D Fixes: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/
For the most part it's as simple as downloading a game's fix, usually a *.zip file, and extracting the contents, unless otherwise noted, to the folder where the game's exe is located. It's a good idea to scroll through and especially down to the bottom of the comments as most of the current issues and quite possibly their fixes are sometimes located there, for instance the Dead Space is listed as not being compatible with the Origin version when in fact it was at the time of me checking into it, it was simply an issue with the Origin overlay. Generally a fixes' file structure looks like so:
ShaderOverride\PixelShaders\*.txt
ShaderOverride\VertexShaders\*.txt
DX9Settings.ini
d3d9.dll
ShaderFixes\*.txt, *.hlsl
d3d11.dll
d3dcompiler_46.dll
d3dx.ini
nvapi.dll(nvapi64.dll)
uninstall.bat
MonitorSizeOverride/DepthHack:
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
In fact, your information for Cycle Frustrum was very useful to me now. I just tested Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames on Gothic 3 to 1 and it eliminated the need to use Ctrl + F11 in game to eliminate the vertical black bars on each side when in 3D.
This information will be useful, especially for newcomers to 3D Vision.
If TsaebehT has time, it would be helpful to also discussion convergence-locked games and any potential ways to override these restrictions.
Another consequence is that the ideal convergence for a given game will not only depend on personal preference, but (I assume) also how far you sit from the screen - a monitor is likely to require a much lower convergence than a projector for the best 3D effect (maybe someone with a projector can confirm?)
2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit
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Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
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Probably worth making a note on the correct upgrade procedure for a new version of a helixmod/3dmigoto fix. Aka removing the old one/running uninstall.bat first.
I would recommend not starting with depth at 100%, I think that is bad advice. Especially for newcomers, they may immediately give themselves a headache if they crank it all the way up. On monitors, I never use 100%. The best advice there is to turn it up higher, but keep it where it feels right and is interesting, not necessarily 100%.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Id like to get a 65 inch TV to support this but I have no idea which ones to look at to be honest.
ASUS VG278H - 3D Vision 2 - Driver 358.87 - Titan X SLI@1519Mhz - i7-4930K@4.65GHz - 16GB RAM - Win7x64 - Samsung SSD 850 PRO (256GB) and Samsung EVO 850 (1TB) - Full EK Custom Waterloop - Project Milkyway Galaxy (3D Mark Firestrike Hall of Famer)
G-Pat on Helixmod
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John's gospel chapter 3 verse 16 KJV BIble
My new TV, a SONY KD-75S9005B, using Active 3D Glasses is working fine with my GTX 780.
New Question replacing the old one...
Is my understanding right that 3D is, regardless of the GPU we're using, capped at 1920x1080 @ 24Hz or 1280x720 @ 60Hz?
This is true for 3DTV Play only.
But at least with my LG65UG8709 (LG65UG870V) 4K TV there is also a "HDMI-Checkerboard" option offered by 3DTV Play when using the regular LG EDID info (without an override). Unfortunatelly the LG only supports checkerboard input for 720p and 1080p (though both @ 60Hz), while 3DTV Play can ouput checkerboard at all resolutions up to 4K.
I'm unsure if this option would be provided by a 3DTV Play license alone, which I don't own. I have actually the 3D vision pyramid connected to my PC (just used as "dongle" to get the 3D Vision/3DTV Play options). Of course I'm using the passive 3D glasses provided by LG.
With the ACER/LG EDID override I actually get line interleaved output for any resolution, which the LG is able to use at 720p, 1080p and 2160p (4K) resolutions. The first 2 actually need active processing by the LG TV (3D must be activated with line interleaved input selected), while at 4K the 3D "just works", because it exactly fits the polarisation filter layout of the passive LG display.
So, since there is no mandatory 3D frame packing for 4K @ 60Hz defined in the HDMI 2.0 spec, 4K line interleaved 3D is the best currently technical possible with the nVidia driver. This actually corresponds to 3840 x 1080 (2 * HD) resolution per eye, which looks insanely good at a 65" display with 1,2 m viewing distance!
1. Step 1 includes the text "IPD" without a definition. How would a beginner know what those three letters mean?
2. Depth (in 3D vision) is specified/measured as a percent, not as a length. Interpupillary Distance (as a length) does not apply to 3D Vision. Depth can not be set as a length. Therefore, remove all references to IPD in this guide, especially since this is a beginner's guide.
3. Start depth at 100% is a terrible idea for 3D Vision. Might be fine for 3D TV Play with Large screen TV's and projector's viewed at far distance, but it causes great eye strain on monitors viewed at close distance. I know because, when I first began using 3D vision, I was not aware of the convergence adjustment, and instead, I only increased depth. Every game I played in 3D caused me eye strain and eventually a mild headache, and I accepted it. Eventually, I discovered that convergence can be changed. Since that day, no more eye strain and no more headaches. Why? because I never increase depth to more than 50%, and instead, I adjust the convergence. Too much convergence has never given me a headache.
Just in case anyone at Nvidia is reading this ....
Convergence adjustment should be automatically enabled because it's very important to having an enjoyable 3D experience. During the "Enable stereoscopic 3D" process, I recommend adding a step which instructs the user to adjust depth and convergence (or at least show the user what happens when depth/convergence are adjusted). As you already know, 3D which is not properly adjusted can cause eye strain and headaches or appear flat or have too much/little convergence (or depth). First impressions are very important.
Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/
[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]