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+1 Helifax is right on the money.
+1 Helifax is right on the money.

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#16
Posted 02/13/2018 11:32 PM   
I bought a 1080ti and started mining with it. In a few weeks, it (paired with my 1070) will have made enough for me to sell the 1070 and the upgrade to be effectively free. If I hang on to the 1070 longer and leave them both mining while I'm not gaming, I may even make a profit. I've underclocked both of them to keep temperatures and fan speeds in check, so there's minimal risk to the cards. I don't understand why any gamer [i]wouldn't[/i] be mining at this point, providing their electricity costs are reasonable.
I bought a 1080ti and started mining with it. In a few weeks, it (paired with my 1070) will have made enough for me to sell the 1070 and the upgrade to be effectively free. If I hang on to the 1070 longer and leave them both mining while I'm not gaming, I may even make a profit. I've underclocked both of them to keep temperatures and fan speeds in check, so there's minimal risk to the cards. I don't understand why any gamer wouldn't be mining at this point, providing their electricity costs are reasonable.

#17
Posted 02/14/2018 01:51 AM   
@ mihabolil - quote function isn't working for me ATM I don't think you get what intrinsic value is. The work done to procure something has no intrinsic value, only the thing that is procured. Sure, a GPU has intrinsic value - it's entertainment value in rendering graphics for games, which is always decreasing, as new technology is always being invented. The price of GPUs ATM is similar to house prices in bubbles, overinflated due to dodgy financials. You get how the 2008 crash in the US worked, don't you? That loans were overvalued by banks being dodgy with numbers and houses raised well and truly above their intrinsic value (which was much closer to what wages could reasonably support and actually the useful value of the house and land it was on). Well GPUs are exactly the same as houses were then and cryptocurrency is exactly the same as CDFs and MBSs and all the other dodgy formulas the banksters came up with. As Helifax mentions, crypto may be regulated by governments and then it would become similar to fiat currency - it would have no intrinsic value but would have exchange value and debt creation potential based on a given countries future productivity (bonds). If govts don't step in and regulate it, however, it will one day return to it's true value of 0. As a side note, nothing virtual can ever have true intrinsic value, as we are a biological species that exists in the physical world. We can survive without the virtual but the virtual cannot survive without us.
@ mihabolil - quote function isn't working for me ATM

I don't think you get what intrinsic value is. The work done to procure something has no intrinsic value, only the thing that is procured.

Sure, a GPU has intrinsic value - it's entertainment value in rendering graphics for games, which is always decreasing, as new technology is always being invented. The price of GPUs ATM is similar to house prices in bubbles, overinflated due to dodgy financials.

You get how the 2008 crash in the US worked, don't you? That loans were overvalued by banks being dodgy with numbers and houses raised well and truly above their intrinsic value (which was much closer to what wages could reasonably support and actually the useful value of the house and land it was on). Well GPUs are exactly the same as houses were then and cryptocurrency is exactly the same as CDFs and MBSs and all the other dodgy formulas the banksters came up with.

As Helifax mentions, crypto may be regulated by governments and then it would become similar to fiat currency - it would have no intrinsic value but would have exchange value and debt creation potential based on a given countries future productivity (bonds). If govts don't step in and regulate it, however, it will one day return to it's true value of 0.

As a side note, nothing virtual can ever have true intrinsic value, as we are a biological species that exists in the physical world. We can survive without the virtual but the virtual cannot survive without us.

#18
Posted 02/14/2018 02:51 AM   
[quote="ummester"]@ mihabolil - quote function isn't working for me ATM I don't think you get what intrinsic value is. The work done to procure something has no intrinsic value, only the thing that is procured. Sure, a GPU has intrinsic value - it's entertainment value in rendering graphics for games, which is always decreasing, as new technology is always being invented. The price of GPUs ATM is similar to house prices in bubbles, overinflated due to dodgy financials. You get how the 2008 crash in the US worked, don't you? That loans were overvalued by banks being dodgy with numbers and houses raised well and truly above their intrinsic value (which was much closer to what wages could reasonably support and actually the useful value of the house and land it was on). Well GPUs are exactly the same as houses were then and cryptocurrency is exactly the same as CDFs and MBSs and all the other dodgy formulas the banksters came up with. As Helifax mentions, crypto may be regulated by governments and then it would become similar to fiat currency - it would have no intrinsic value but would have exchange value and debt creation potential based on a given countries future productivity (bonds). If govts don't step in and regulate it, however, it will one day return to it's true value of 0. As a side note, nothing virtual can ever have true intrinsic value, as we are a biological species that exists in the physical world. We can survive without the virtual but the virtual cannot survive without us.[/quote] Crypto value is backed by the network hashrate (support), same as the Fiat money backed by DEBT (promise to pay back). [u]Both has no intrinsic value, both are bubble, Right?[/u] Fiat money appear from PURE AIR as they are not even printed now, just some numbers typed in the system. In contrast to Fiat however Crypto is being produced as a reward for the WORK the miners have done to confirm the block in the blockchain aka POW (proof of work). There is also POS (proof of stake) in wich I do not believe as it is not backed by anything but speculation. Another difference is that there is no inflation in Crypto, but exactly te opposide - with the time Crypto value increases because nobody is "printing" useless papers like crasy.
ummester said:@ mihabolil - quote function isn't working for me ATM

I don't think you get what intrinsic value is. The work done to procure something has no intrinsic value, only the thing that is procured.

Sure, a GPU has intrinsic value - it's entertainment value in rendering graphics for games, which is always decreasing, as new technology is always being invented. The price of GPUs ATM is similar to house prices in bubbles, overinflated due to dodgy financials.

You get how the 2008 crash in the US worked, don't you? That loans were overvalued by banks being dodgy with numbers and houses raised well and truly above their intrinsic value (which was much closer to what wages could reasonably support and actually the useful value of the house and land it was on). Well GPUs are exactly the same as houses were then and cryptocurrency is exactly the same as CDFs and MBSs and all the other dodgy formulas the banksters came up with.

As Helifax mentions, crypto may be regulated by governments and then it would become similar to fiat currency - it would have no intrinsic value but would have exchange value and debt creation potential based on a given countries future productivity (bonds). If govts don't step in and regulate it, however, it will one day return to it's true value of 0.

As a side note, nothing virtual can ever have true intrinsic value, as we are a biological species that exists in the physical world. We can survive without the virtual but the virtual cannot survive without us.


Crypto value is backed by the network hashrate (support), same as the Fiat money backed by DEBT (promise to pay back).
Both has no intrinsic value, both are bubble, Right?
Fiat money appear from PURE AIR as they are not even printed now, just some numbers typed in the system.
In contrast to Fiat however Crypto is being produced as a reward for the WORK the miners have done to confirm the block in the blockchain aka POW (proof of work).
There is also POS (proof of stake) in wich I do not believe as it is not backed by anything but speculation.
Another difference is that there is no inflation in Crypto, but exactly te opposide - with the time Crypto value increases because nobody is "printing" useless papers like crasy.

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#19
Posted 02/14/2018 08:10 AM   
[quote="mihabolil"]Crypto value is backed by the network hashrate (support), same as the Fiat money backed by DEBT (promise to pay back). [u]Both has no intrinsic value, both are bubble, Right?[/u] [/quote] Correct, neither fiat nor cryptocurrency have any intrinsic value. They are only a medium of exchange and/or debt creation. I'm not sure currency can be in a bubble, it either inflates or deflates relative to it's countries asset, trade or productivity worth. The worth of cryto is gauged in other currency, not against the trade or productivity value of a country. So a better question is - are cryptocurrencies actual currency? [quote="mihabolil"]Fiat money appear from PURE AIR as they are not even printed now, just some numbers typed in the system.[/quote] Yes, in simple terms. It's actually produced according to fractional reserve ratios but they have gotten so out of hand, with so many lenders, it may as well be out of thin air. You'll get no argument from me that the entire modern economic system is very unstable. [quote="mihabolil"]In contrast to Fiat however Crypto is being produced as a reward for the WORK the miners have done to confirm the block in the blockchain aka POW (proof of work).[/quote] Just because something is unique in a virtual space does not give it any intrinsic value in reality. Look at it like this, if the financial system collapses, most ATMs, financial services and probably even the internet will go down - you won't be able to use fiat, let alone crypto. But you will be able to use gold - not that I'm a goldbug, just saying. You will also be able to use seeds that yield good food, or a hammer, or a gun, or a house - see how all of these things have genuine intrinsic value. Underneath all of the over inflation, fiat currency is suppose to represent those things - the real things. What does crypto represent that is real?
mihabolil said:Crypto value is backed by the network hashrate (support), same as the Fiat money backed by DEBT (promise to pay back).
Both has no intrinsic value, both are bubble, Right?


Correct, neither fiat nor cryptocurrency have any intrinsic value. They are only a medium of exchange and/or debt creation. I'm not sure currency can be in a bubble, it either inflates or deflates relative to it's countries asset, trade or productivity worth.

The worth of cryto is gauged in other currency, not against the trade or productivity value of a country. So a better question is - are cryptocurrencies actual currency?


mihabolil said:Fiat money appear from PURE AIR as they are not even printed now, just some numbers typed in the system.


Yes, in simple terms. It's actually produced according to fractional reserve ratios but they have gotten so out of hand, with so many lenders, it may as well be out of thin air.

You'll get no argument from me that the entire modern economic system is very unstable.

mihabolil said:In contrast to Fiat however Crypto is being produced as a reward for the WORK the miners have done to confirm the block in the blockchain aka POW (proof of work).


Just because something is unique in a virtual space does not give it any intrinsic value in reality.

Look at it like this, if the financial system collapses, most ATMs, financial services and probably even the internet will go down - you won't be able to use fiat, let alone crypto. But you will be able to use gold - not that I'm a goldbug, just saying. You will also be able to use seeds that yield good food, or a hammer, or a gun, or a house - see how all of these things have genuine intrinsic value. Underneath all of the over inflation, fiat currency is suppose to represent those things - the real things. What does crypto represent that is real?

#20
Posted 02/14/2018 09:22 AM   
[quote="ummester"]..What does crypto represent that is real?[/quote] All you saying is true and is clear that fiat world have one purpose: To make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Crypto may not be ideal atm (nor be the solution for the problem at all) but the idea behind is to avoid the monopol of the current system. Decentralised and open market, where everybody can trade/exchange assets without being robbed by the government system. Of cource anything that one can profit from will be abused heavily, this is not only in crypto, it is human nature. Please, take a look at the pic bellow and tell me it is ok an the current system is any beter than what crypto is offering. [img]http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-07-27-1438024680-5677388-Productivitywages.arrow.800.jpg[/img] [quote="Pirateguybrush"]I bought a 1080ti and started mining with it. In a few weeks, it (paired with my 1070) will have made enough for me to sell the 1070 and the upgrade to be effectively free. If I hang on to the 1070 longer and leave them both mining while I'm not gaming, I may even make a profit. I've underclocked both of them to keep temperatures and fan speeds in check, so there's minimal risk to the cards. I don't understand why any gamer [i]wouldn't[/i] be mining at this point, providing their electricity costs are reasonable.[/quote] Wise man, If I were you I'd keep the 1070. It is great gpu all around and we will not see any huge improvement on the market before the summer. If now only 0.001% of the ppl are involved in crypto, imagine the amount of cash sitting there and waiting to enter the crypto world. 2019 will be even more successful than last year. Ponzi works and we are at the very beginning, so buckle up and HODL. We are going to the moon. [url]www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk[/url] Clarification: I am talking about regular ppl using their own hardware for mining purposes. I am not supporting/promiting the use of any Viruses, Addware, Ransomware, Minigware or whatever unwanted/harmfull software one can think of.
ummester said:..What does crypto represent that is real?

All you saying is true and is clear that fiat world have one purpose: To make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
Crypto may not be ideal atm (nor be the solution for the problem at all) but the idea behind is to avoid the monopol of the current system.
Decentralised and open market, where everybody can trade/exchange assets without being robbed by the government system.
Of cource anything that one can profit from will be abused heavily, this is not only in crypto, it is human nature.

Please, take a look at the pic bellow and tell me it is ok an the current system is any beter than what crypto is offering.
Image

Pirateguybrush said:I bought a 1080ti and started mining with it. In a few weeks, it (paired with my 1070) will have made enough for me to sell the 1070 and the upgrade to be effectively free. If I hang on to the 1070 longer and leave them both mining while I'm not gaming, I may even make a profit. I've underclocked both of them to keep temperatures and fan speeds in check, so there's minimal risk to the cards. I don't understand why any gamer wouldn't be mining at this point, providing their electricity costs are reasonable.


Wise man, If I were you I'd keep the 1070. It is great gpu all around and we will not see any huge improvement on the market before the summer.
If now only 0.001% of the ppl are involved in crypto, imagine the amount of cash sitting there and waiting to enter the crypto world. 2019 will be even more successful than last year.

Ponzi works and we are at the very beginning, so buckle up and HODL. We are going to the moon.





Clarification:
I am talking about regular ppl using their own hardware for mining purposes.
I am not supporting/promiting the use of any Viruses, Addware, Ransomware, Minigware or whatever unwanted/harmfull software one can think of.

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#21
Posted 02/14/2018 12:43 PM   
Yeah, I'll probably keep the 1070 until it stops printing me money.
Yeah, I'll probably keep the 1070 until it stops printing me money.

#22
Posted 02/15/2018 05:24 AM   
In my opinion, we are closer to the end than the beginning. With google blocking any crypto ads, the 'currencies' are all taking a dive, most are down 20%-30% for the week. See: [url]https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/[/url] I've also been tracking the actual market price of 1080ti cards on eBay, where an auction actually tells you the actual market price, not what anyone says it ought to be. The price has been slipping in the last few weeks. 2 weeks ago 1080ti was going for $1200-$1300 on eBay. That's a hell of a surcharge over MSRP of $900 or so for the water cooled card. That price has now slipped to $1000-$1100, suggesting that the demand is cooling. Mining itself has slipped, as the returns per card is about half of what it was 3 weeks ago. I'd recommend selling that 1070 now, while you can. If Nvidia comes out with new cards next week like I'd expect, it's going to impact the price, and I don't think you'll ever get the return out of it that you'll get right now. Lastly, I share this video, which I find hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG7zLhEWanc
In my opinion, we are closer to the end than the beginning. With google blocking any crypto ads, the 'currencies' are all taking a dive, most are down 20%-30% for the week. See: https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

I've also been tracking the actual market price of 1080ti cards on eBay, where an auction actually tells you the actual market price, not what anyone says it ought to be. The price has been slipping in the last few weeks. 2 weeks ago 1080ti was going for $1200-$1300 on eBay. That's a hell of a surcharge over MSRP of $900 or so for the water cooled card. That price has now slipped to $1000-$1100, suggesting that the demand is cooling.

Mining itself has slipped, as the returns per card is about half of what it was 3 weeks ago.


I'd recommend selling that 1070 now, while you can. If Nvidia comes out with new cards next week like I'd expect, it's going to impact the price, and I don't think you'll ever get the return out of it that you'll get right now.


Lastly, I share this video, which I find hilarious:

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#23
Posted 03/15/2018 04:30 PM   
Guru3D had an article about Inno3D releasing a GPU targeted toward miners but still using the GP102. http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-p102-100-gpu-spotted-for-crypto-has-3200-shader-cores-and-5gb.html It's almost a certainty that some gamer will buy this and complain about performance while playing Player Unknown :P
Guru3D had an article about Inno3D releasing a GPU targeted toward miners but still using the GP102.



http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-p102-100-gpu-spotted-for-crypto-has-3200-shader-cores-and-5gb.html


It's almost a certainty that some gamer will buy this and complain about performance while playing Player Unknown :P

#24
Posted 03/15/2018 04:41 PM   
Do not sell any hardware guys. Even if nVidia announce new GPU, we will not be able to buy it for at least 3 months post release. Crypto may dip, but will bounce back. Hashrates and difficulty are not decreasing, there is HUGE support. Keep calm and HOLD. Do not give in to the FUD.
Do not sell any hardware guys.
Even if nVidia announce new GPU, we will not be able to buy it for at least 3 months post release.
Crypto may dip, but will bounce back.
Hashrates and difficulty are not decreasing, there is HUGE support.

Keep calm and HOLD. Do not give in to the FUD.

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#25
Posted 03/15/2018 09:09 PM   
Thanks for the tip bo3b - I actually pulled the card out yesterday, and plan on listing it for sale over the weekend. It's barely making a profit over the electricity costs at the moment. The 1080ti is only making around $35US/month after electricity costs at the moment, so I've stopped mining entirely. I've not sold off the bitcoin I've earned yet - there's only about $200 of it, so I might take a gamble and leave it to see what happens. I can afford to lose it if things go poorly.
Thanks for the tip bo3b - I actually pulled the card out yesterday, and plan on listing it for sale over the weekend. It's barely making a profit over the electricity costs at the moment. The 1080ti is only making around $35US/month after electricity costs at the moment, so I've stopped mining entirely.

I've not sold off the bitcoin I've earned yet - there's only about $200 of it, so I might take a gamble and leave it to see what happens. I can afford to lose it if things go poorly.

#26
Posted 03/16/2018 03:14 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]In my opinion, we are closer to the end than the beginning. Lastly, I share this video, which I find hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG7zLhEWanc [/quote] I agree. Also, I just about spit out my tea at the line "All my cotton's Egypt-ed!" LOL
bo3b said:In my opinion, we are closer to the end than the beginning.
Lastly, I share this video, which I find hilarious:




I agree.

Also, I just about spit out my tea at the line "All my cotton's Egypt-ed!" LOL

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#27
Posted 03/16/2018 12:40 PM   
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