1080p Oculus Rift
  5 / 10    
[quote="bo3b"]Whatever you say my man. But if you stop 20 people on the street, how many will have any idea what Edge magazine is? Hell, I've never heard of it, and probably should have. I think we might have a different idea of what constitutes 'mainstream'.[/quote] Maybe edge magazine is only big in the UK, as I know about it despite never buying a copy. I think the majority of gamers and people interested in tech would have heard of it in the UK. It's been around for donkeys years. Anyway, I get what you're saying bo3b, but I think Volnaiskra is right. 'Mainstream' surely is on the BBC website (main article on tech site for a week). Mainstream surely is featured in the UK's most read papers, The Daily Mail, The Guardian, The Telegraph. And mainstream is surely being featured on the front web site of every gaming site at some point from IGN, Gamespot Kotaku etc and also in top PC hardware sites. Surely the fact this product is still in the beta stage, with only a beta product out to 'designers and enthusiasts' should stand in its favour. Sony have been very quiet about its support with PS4, and that is because they haven't decided yet = it's a very real possibility. They will want to wait for a gold consumer version first and consumers reactions. But on every website, inc very non tech sites like the Guardian UK newspaper, the comments are all in line with.. "I havnt played games in year, but I am so stoked for this. This has been my childhood dream and now it's becoming a reality!" or simply "Take my money now" There is clearly a huge support for this tech, that is not based on confirmation bias. I am not about to start an excel sheet to calculate negative to positive comments because it really is evidently apparent on reading. Now compare that to 3D alone! You are very hard pressed to find a single positive thing to read about 3D on non 3D sites. That has always been the case. So in my opinion, the OR currently has more momentum and more good will and optimism then 3D ever had (and 3D's tiny enthusiasm has served us quite well until now, even if a little (very) shakey at times). So while I really appreciate you own the 'Dev' (Beta) model, and know a lot more than I do about the OR from first hand experience (and thanks again for your great review!) I still think that we must wait until a consumer model to question low res, motion blur, heat etc. And I really think that the buzz on the internet is hugely positive and rather large for a new piece of tech released by an unknown company. And finally, for anyone not wanting the immersiveness of the OR, I would still be very pro it because: - It will help push 3D to the masses in disguise (I think that is needed with all the negative 3D sentiment.) - It will raise graphical needs and therefore should stimulate faster tech progress (From better or cheaper GPU's due to economies of scale, or higher res VR displays). - It can open up possibilities of gaming that have never existed before. All of which I'm pretty sure all of us would rather like.
bo3b said:Whatever you say my man. But if you stop 20 people on the street, how many will have any idea what Edge magazine is?

Hell, I've never heard of it, and probably should have.

I think we might have a different idea of what constitutes 'mainstream'.


Maybe edge magazine is only big in the UK, as I know about it despite never buying a copy. I think the majority of gamers and people interested in tech would have heard of it in the UK. It's been around for donkeys years. Anyway, I get what you're saying bo3b, but I think Volnaiskra is right. 'Mainstream' surely is on the BBC website (main article on tech site for a week). Mainstream surely is featured in the UK's most read papers, The Daily Mail, The Guardian, The Telegraph. And mainstream is surely being featured on the front web site of every gaming site at some point from

IGN, Gamespot Kotaku etc and also in top PC hardware sites. Surely the fact this product is still in the beta stage, with only a beta product out to 'designers and enthusiasts' should stand in its favour. Sony have been very quiet about its support with PS4, and that is because they haven't decided yet = it's a very real possibility. They will want to wait for a gold consumer version first and consumers reactions.

But on every website, inc very non tech sites like the Guardian UK newspaper, the comments are all in line with..

"I havnt played games in year, but I am so stoked for this. This has been my childhood dream and now it's becoming a reality!" or simply "Take my money now"

There is clearly a huge support for this tech, that is not based on confirmation bias. I am not about to start an excel sheet to calculate negative to positive comments because it really is evidently apparent on reading.

Now compare that to 3D alone! You are very hard pressed to find a single positive thing to read about 3D on non 3D sites. That has always been the case. So in my opinion, the OR currently has more momentum and more good will and optimism then 3D ever had (and 3D's tiny enthusiasm has served us quite well until now, even if a little (very) shakey at times).

So while I really appreciate you own the 'Dev' (Beta) model, and know a lot more than I do about the OR from first hand experience (and thanks again for your great review!) I still think that we must wait until a consumer model to question low res, motion blur, heat etc. And I really think that the buzz on the internet is hugely positive and rather large for a new piece of tech released by an unknown company.

And finally, for anyone not wanting the immersiveness of the OR, I would still be very pro it because:

- It will help push 3D to the masses in disguise (I think that is needed with all the negative 3D sentiment.)
- It will raise graphical needs and therefore should stimulate faster tech progress (From better or cheaper GPU's due to economies of scale, or higher res VR displays).
- It can open up possibilities of gaming that have never existed before.

All of which I'm pretty sure all of us would rather like.

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#61
Posted 06/14/2013 08:32 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Whatever you say my man. But if you stop 20 people on the street, how many will have any idea what Edge magazine is? Hell, I've never heard of it, and probably should have. I think we might have a different idea of what constitutes 'mainstream'. BTW, I do not disagree that Rift has absolutely captured every hardcore gamer's imagination.[/quote] Obviously you're not in EU, Edge is probably the best and most respected magazine in the UK, so it's huge there. It's been around for ages, won lots of awards, and it's the most mature, unbiased and well written magazine you will find almost anywhere. I only read very few reviews, and Edge reviews are among them, they are really good. But what's best about it it's how they focus gaming with the utmost respect and as a form of art. I think you should try to find a copy of any number and give it a look, it's really worth the read.
bo3b said:Whatever you say my man. But if you stop 20 people on the street, how many will have any idea what Edge magazine is?

Hell, I've never heard of it, and probably should have.

I think we might have a different idea of what constitutes 'mainstream'.


BTW, I do not disagree that Rift has absolutely captured every hardcore gamer's imagination.



Obviously you're not in EU, Edge is probably the best and most respected magazine in the UK, so it's huge there. It's been around for ages, won lots of awards, and it's the most mature, unbiased and well written magazine you will find almost anywhere. I only read very few reviews, and Edge reviews are among them, they are really good. But what's best about it it's how they focus gaming with the utmost respect and as a form of art. I think you should try to find a copy of any number and give it a look, it's really worth the read.

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#62
Posted 06/14/2013 09:04 AM   
Very interesting how much deeper the UK press delves into gaming than the US press. I believe you when you say it's mainstream there. The Guardian and the Telegraph and the BBC are not niche market. I should have heard of Edge, because Future plc also publishes MaximumPC. Look, there is no disagreement that the Rift has caught everyone's imagination. I've never seen as much hype and frenzy for something that doesn't yet exist. Everyone, and I mean everyone, is willing to overlook every possible drawback, under the assumption that the future of the Rift will be glorious. People [i]want [/i]to believe. This is the very essence of confirmation bias. I don't disagree with any of that. Of [i]course [/i]it has incredible potential. For me personally, I just [i]never [/i]buy into hype, and I always try to maintain a skeptical and preferably realistic outlook. In today's world of course, you are either a fanboy or a hater, no one ever has enough brain space for 'realist.'
Very interesting how much deeper the UK press delves into gaming than the US press.

I believe you when you say it's mainstream there. The Guardian and the Telegraph and the BBC are not niche market.

I should have heard of Edge, because Future plc also publishes MaximumPC.


Look, there is no disagreement that the Rift has caught everyone's imagination. I've never seen as much hype and frenzy for something that doesn't yet exist.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, is willing to overlook every possible drawback, under the assumption that the future of the Rift will be glorious. People want to believe. This is the very essence of confirmation bias.

I don't disagree with any of that. Of course it has incredible potential.


For me personally, I just never buy into hype, and I always try to maintain a skeptical and preferably realistic outlook. In today's world of course, you are either a fanboy or a hater, no one ever has enough brain space for 'realist.'

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#63
Posted 06/14/2013 10:40 AM   
I have just asked the kids in my classroom; it's currently lunchtime and there are 14 students present. Three had heard of the OR. The three all sat next to each other and are more into hardware than the others present, who are just browsing forums or playing on Kodu. Ages between 12 - 14. None of the three are 3D users (being 13/14 year olds they prolly don't have the buying power). One had seen someone playing Minecraft using the OR on YouTube; one is into tech and the third probably heard because of the second. All are gamers. They are all excited about it despite how unlikely it is for them to get one. The YouTube one thought it was weird (I guess it was the first time he had seen VR). Well I thought that was interesting! :)
I have just asked the kids in my classroom; it's currently lunchtime and there are 14 students present. Three had heard of the OR. The three all sat next to each other and are more into hardware than the others present, who are just browsing forums or playing on Kodu. Ages between 12 - 14.

None of the three are 3D users (being 13/14 year olds they prolly don't have the buying power). One had seen someone playing Minecraft using the OR on YouTube; one is into tech and the third probably heard because of the second. All are gamers.

They are all excited about it despite how unlikely it is for them to get one. The YouTube one thought it was weird (I guess it was the first time he had seen VR).

Well I thought that was interesting! :)

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#64
Posted 06/14/2013 12:37 PM   
Well, b03b, I can certainly agree with your point that after all the hype fades there might simply be a big hangover. Though I think there's plenty of room for optimism. At least most of this hype isn't generated by some massive corporation's marketing budget, but is actually coming from developers, journalists, gamers, and people who have tried the dev kit and been nicely surprised. I'm surprised that in the internet age people still make such a strong distinction between US/UK magazines. I had no idea Edge was British until just now, and I've read it sporadically for 2 years (I currently have a subscription via Google Play Magazines). I also follow a dozen other gaming websites (ign, pc gamer, etc.), and have no idea whether those are American or British either (except Rock Paper Shotgun - their sensibility somehow strikes me as very obviously British....you can kind of tell from their general grumpiness they haven't seen a sunny day in months :p ). I guess that's a benefit of living in a dusty corner of the world like Australia. It's easier to be a global citizen because you just take whatever you can get and don't care where it's from.
Well, b03b, I can certainly agree with your point that after all the hype fades there might simply be a big hangover. Though I think there's plenty of room for optimism. At least most of this hype isn't generated by some massive corporation's marketing budget, but is actually coming from developers, journalists, gamers, and people who have tried the dev kit and been nicely surprised.



I'm surprised that in the internet age people still make such a strong distinction between US/UK magazines. I had no idea Edge was British until just now, and I've read it sporadically for 2 years (I currently have a subscription via Google Play Magazines).

I also follow a dozen other gaming websites (ign, pc gamer, etc.), and have no idea whether those are American or British either (except Rock Paper Shotgun - their sensibility somehow strikes me as very obviously British....you can kind of tell from their general grumpiness they haven't seen a sunny day in months :p ).

I guess that's a benefit of living in a dusty corner of the world like Australia. It's easier to be a global citizen because you just take whatever you can get and don't care where it's from.

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#65
Posted 06/14/2013 12:47 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]Everyone, and I mean everyone, is willing to overlook every possible drawback, under the assumption that the future of the Rift will be glorious. People [i]want [/i]to believe. This is the very essence of confirmation bias.[/quote] Confirmation bias has absolutely nothing to do with wanting VR tech to succeed to live out childhood dreams of ultra immersive gaming. As I have said, every single draw back: - Low Res - Heat, weigh, comfort - Latency All of which can be rectified with technological improvements. Point out of I am wrong. It's not about overlooking every possible drawback, it is acknowledging that this is a beta device that was designed to raise feedback about what is really important for VR and what needs to be addressed for the proper release. You can't just simply sweep optimism under the big label of "confirmation bias" which seems to have become a new buzzword all of a sudden. To do so is as to polarise rational discussion to achieve a desired outcome. [quote="bo3b"] For me personally, I just [i]never [/i]buy into hype, and I always try to maintain a skeptical and preferably realistic outlook. In today's world of course, you are either a fanboy or a hater, no one ever has enough brain space for 'realist.'[/quote] There is a huge difference between a sceptic and a realist, and to assume that you must be a fan boy or a hater and that no one else has the brain to be 'realist' is seemingly a rather arrogant statement that would appear to suggest that you know your opinion is superior to others... You have dismissed all of the mainstream press in the UK's positive coverage by calling it "confirmation bias". That we are not as clever as you to realise we are only seeing what we want to see.... I have read many articles regarding OR's limitations. Here's one small one: [url]http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/23/oculus-rift-skyrim/[/url] The above link is just one problem of improperly formatted menus and the OR's low res. But this is a beta product, and it really can be resolved over time and with correct development. Whether the device succeeds or not is something neither of us knows (history would say its less likely, but then history would have suggested that tablets would not become the phenomenon they have become today.) But why you are against hype and frenzy with something that can raise the bar of gaming? 3D's biggest problem is people were not hyped and enthused about it at all . We had to be really tricked and forced to see stuff in 3D (and it is now dying, no surprise). OR has a huge hype and following (this side of the pond at least). That is [u]needed[/u] to get it over the first few hurdles and get at least one great app on it to ensure it succeeds. This isn't a company that can afford huge advertisement campaigns, this isn't Apple releasing the first iPad. So I say, bring on the frenzy! -- Insert War_Cry.WAV file here -- ;-)
bo3b said:Everyone, and I mean everyone, is willing to overlook every possible drawback, under the assumption that the future of the Rift will be glorious. People want to believe. This is the very essence of confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias has absolutely nothing to do with wanting VR tech to succeed to live out childhood dreams of ultra immersive gaming. As I have said, every single draw back:

- Low Res
- Heat, weigh, comfort
- Latency

All of which can be rectified with technological improvements. Point out of I am wrong. It's not about overlooking every possible drawback, it is acknowledging that this is a beta device that was designed to raise feedback about what is really important for VR and what needs to be addressed for the proper release. You can't just simply sweep optimism under the big label of "confirmation bias" which seems to have become a new buzzword all of a sudden. To do so is as to polarise rational discussion to achieve a desired outcome.


bo3b said: For me personally, I just never buy into hype, and I always try to maintain a skeptical and preferably realistic outlook. In today's world of course, you are either a fanboy or a hater, no one ever has enough brain space for 'realist.'

There is a huge difference between a sceptic and a realist, and to assume that you must be a fan boy or a hater and that no one else has the brain to be 'realist' is seemingly a rather arrogant statement that would appear to suggest that you know your opinion is superior to others... You have dismissed all of the mainstream press in the UK's positive coverage by calling it "confirmation bias". That we are not as clever as you to realise we are only seeing what we want to see....

I have read many articles regarding OR's limitations. Here's one small one:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/23/oculus-rift-skyrim/

The above link is just one problem of improperly formatted menus and the OR's low res. But this is a beta product, and it really can be resolved over time and with correct development. Whether the device succeeds or not is something neither of us knows (history would say its less likely, but then history would have suggested that tablets would not become the phenomenon they have become today.)

But why you are against hype and frenzy with something that can raise the bar of gaming?

3D's biggest problem is people were not hyped and enthused about it at all . We had to be really tricked and forced to see stuff in 3D (and it is now dying, no surprise).

OR has a huge hype and following (this side of the pond at least). That is needed to get it over the first few hurdles and get at least one great app on it to ensure it succeeds. This isn't a company that can afford huge advertisement campaigns, this isn't Apple releasing the first iPad.

So I say, bring on the frenzy! -- Insert War_Cry.WAV file here -- ;-)

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#66
Posted 06/14/2013 02:20 PM   
[quote="andysonofbob"]I have just asked the kids in my classroom; it's currently lunchtime and there are 14 students present. Three had heard of the OR. The three all sat next to each other and are more into hardware than the others present, who are just browsing forums or playing on Kodu. Ages between 12 - 14. [/quote]I still love anecdotal information to remind myself that the internet is not real life. Thanks for sharing that. It's a similar ratio in my aged group of fellow engineers. It always surprises me when people haven't heard of something I thought was inescapable. [quote="Volnaiskra"]Well, b03b, I can certainly agree with your point that after all the hype fades there might simply be a big hangover. Though I think there's plenty of room for optimism. At least most of this hype isn't generated by some massive corporation's marketing budget, but is actually coming from developers, journalists, gamers, and people who have tried the dev kit and been nicely surprised.[/quote]100% agree with you and others that this is genuine grassroots enthusiasm, not some fake corporate campaign. I fall in that same category of being quite surprised at the experience. I do always think there is room for optimism, I just worry that excessive hype almost always leads to a backlash. Just like 3D itself. [quote="foreverseeking"]Confirmation bias has absolutely nothing to do with wanting VR tech to succeed to live out childhood dreams of ultra immersive gaming. As I have said, every single draw back: - Low Res - Heat, weigh, comfort - Latency All of which can be rectified with technological improvements. [/quote] Edit: deleted unintended insult regarding confirmation bias. My problem is that I do not expect the problems to be solved by the consumer version. And also note that we all saw this same scenario for the Dev Kit, where it was supposed to be completely amazing, and now we know. And now we focus upon the consumer version as the next great hope. And if it doesn't meet expectations, I'm sure we'll say "wait for 2.0". Let's add one that no one talks about: Sim-sickness. In my anecdotal sample of 6 people now, 4 got immediately sick. 2 were immune. After a couple of weeks of practice, I can go for just about an hour before it kills me off. Ginger-ale does help make it subside quickly. I feel a little like Alex in a Clockwork Orange, where every time I put it on, I feel anxious. And I find myself avoiding it because of the association with sim-sickness. This is a real thing, and part of my argument for confirmation bias. People, including Oculus people, dismiss it as something minor, or that will be solved. Maybe, maybe not. If it's not a lot better, I can promise the early reviews are going sting. Edit: deleted. Interpreted as a personal attack, which was not the intent.
andysonofbob said:I have just asked the kids in my classroom; it's currently lunchtime and there are 14 students present. Three had heard of the OR. The three all sat next to each other and are more into hardware than the others present, who are just browsing forums or playing on Kodu. Ages between 12 - 14.
I still love anecdotal information to remind myself that the internet is not real life. Thanks for sharing that. It's a similar ratio in my aged group of fellow engineers. It always surprises me when people haven't heard of something I thought was inescapable.

Volnaiskra said:Well, b03b, I can certainly agree with your point that after all the hype fades there might simply be a big hangover. Though I think there's plenty of room for optimism. At least most of this hype isn't generated by some massive corporation's marketing budget, but is actually coming from developers, journalists, gamers, and people who have tried the dev kit and been nicely surprised.
100% agree with you and others that this is genuine grassroots enthusiasm, not some fake corporate campaign.

I fall in that same category of being quite surprised at the experience. I do always think there is room for optimism, I just worry that excessive hype almost always leads to a backlash. Just like 3D itself.

foreverseeking said:Confirmation bias has absolutely nothing to do with wanting VR tech to succeed to live out childhood dreams of ultra immersive gaming. As I have said, every single draw back:

- Low Res
- Heat, weigh, comfort
- Latency

All of which can be rectified with technological improvements.

Edit: deleted unintended insult regarding confirmation bias.

My problem is that I do not expect the problems to be solved by the consumer version. And also note that we all saw this same scenario for the Dev Kit, where it was supposed to be completely amazing, and now we know. And now we focus upon the consumer version as the next great hope. And if it doesn't meet expectations, I'm sure we'll say "wait for 2.0".

Let's add one that no one talks about:

Sim-sickness. In my anecdotal sample of 6 people now, 4 got immediately sick. 2 were immune. After a couple of weeks of practice, I can go for just about an hour before it kills me off. Ginger-ale does help make it subside quickly. I feel a little like Alex in a Clockwork Orange, where every time I put it on, I feel anxious. And I find myself avoiding it because of the association with sim-sickness.

This is a real thing, and part of my argument for confirmation bias. People, including Oculus people, dismiss it as something minor, or that will be solved. Maybe, maybe not. If it's not a lot better, I can promise the early reviews are going sting.

Edit: deleted. Interpreted as a personal attack, which was not the intent.

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#67
Posted 06/15/2013 02:48 AM   
Well, the US press is catching up. It doesn't get any more mainstream than USA Today. [url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/06/14/oculus-rift-virtual-reality/2422195/[/url]
Well, the US press is catching up. It doesn't get any more mainstream than USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/06/14/oculus-rift-virtual-reality/2422195/

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#68
Posted 06/15/2013 10:08 AM   
I don't know, most people here would have never considered possible what the OR currently does, and there are some impressive minds at work here like Carmack and others that are far beyond our grasp, so I won't be so sure about what can be achieved or not. Not buying the hype is indeed a great way to face all this VR crazyness, however being so conclusive of what can be achieved or not is in itself some form of reverse confirmation bias, if such thing exist lol
I don't know, most people here would have never considered possible what the OR currently does, and there are some impressive minds at work here like Carmack and others that are far beyond our grasp, so I won't be so sure about what can be achieved or not. Not buying the hype is indeed a great way to face all this VR crazyness, however being so conclusive of what can be achieved or not is in itself some form of reverse confirmation bias, if such thing exist lol

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#69
Posted 06/15/2013 11:50 AM   
I would be very surprised if the retail version ends up being a mere 1080p. Smartphone screens are getting more pixel dense almost by the hour. When the iphone 5 came out not long ago, it was all "retina display this" and "retina display that". Not long later, various phones such as the samsung galaxy s4 have a considerably higher pixel density, and the iphone 5 looks noticeably less crisp by comparison. By the time the OR comes out, probably some time in 2015, average pixel density will be far greater than anything today. The problems you mention about resolution will simply be irrelevant. \ Other problems will be harder to crack - especially motion sickness. But worrying about the pixel density of a 2015 device because you weren't happy with the pixel density you saw in an early 2013 prototype is a little bit ridiculous. Besides, I feel your thinking is way too short-term about this, bo3b. How the Oculus Rift version 1.0 looks in 2015 is not the be-all-and-end-all. What is more important is how the tech will look once it's matured a little: once iterations have been done....once a reasonably successful launch funnels more money into the company that goes into further research and development....once a few big games are out and devs learn from their mistakes...perhaps even once a large competitor like Samsung, ASUS or Sony comes in and improves on the OR's design. We're talking about, let's say, 2018 or 2019. By then, the Rift (or its successor, or superior competitor) will have had time to branch out from a hardcore niche and gained a bit more mainstream interest. By 2019, many of your concerns about resolution (or, more accurately, pixel density), weight, and latency will probably be moot, the price will have gone way down, and the public will find it a pretty easy product to embrace. Few people will remember the 2015 launch, and even fewer will care. All that needs to happen is that the 2015 launch was successful enough to allow the company (or a competitor) to stay afloat and keep iterating and improving as the market slowly grows. And by most accounts, that is a very likely outcome.
I would be very surprised if the retail version ends up being a mere 1080p. Smartphone screens are getting more pixel dense almost by the hour.

When the iphone 5 came out not long ago, it was all "retina display this" and "retina display that". Not long later, various phones such as the samsung galaxy s4 have a considerably higher pixel density, and the iphone 5 looks noticeably less crisp by comparison.

By the time the OR comes out, probably some time in 2015, average pixel density will be far greater than anything today. The problems you mention about resolution will simply be irrelevant. \

Other problems will be harder to crack - especially motion sickness. But worrying about the pixel density of a 2015 device because you weren't happy with the pixel density you saw in an early 2013 prototype is a little bit ridiculous.

Besides, I feel your thinking is way too short-term about this, bo3b. How the Oculus Rift version 1.0 looks in 2015 is not the be-all-and-end-all.

What is more important is how the tech will look once it's matured a little: once iterations have been done....once a reasonably successful launch funnels more money into the company that goes into further research and development....once a few big games are out and devs learn from their mistakes...perhaps even once a large competitor like Samsung, ASUS or Sony comes in and improves on the OR's design.

We're talking about, let's say, 2018 or 2019. By then, the Rift (or its successor, or superior competitor) will have had time to branch out from a hardcore niche and gained a bit more mainstream interest. By 2019, many of your concerns about resolution (or, more accurately, pixel density), weight, and latency will probably be moot, the price will have gone way down, and the public will find it a pretty easy product to embrace.

Few people will remember the 2015 launch, and even fewer will care. All that needs to happen is that the 2015 launch was successful enough to allow the company (or a competitor) to stay afloat and keep iterating and improving as the market slowly grows.

And by most accounts, that is a very likely outcome.

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#70
Posted 06/15/2013 12:10 PM   
[quote="Volnaiskra"]I would be very surprised if the retail version ends up being a mere 1080p. Smartphone screens are getting more pixel dense almost by the hour. When the iphone 5 came out not long ago, it was all "retina display this" and "retina display that". Not long later, various phones such as the samsung galaxy s4 have a considerably higher pixel density, and the iphone 5 looks noticeably less crisp by comparison. By the time the OR comes out, probably some time in 2015, average pixel density will be far greater than anything today. The problems you mention about resolution will simply be irrelevant. [/quote] I don't think it makes much sense for the phone companies to go far beyond full hd (1080) for a 5" device because you simply can not see the difference. Going for a 7" or even bigger display is not a desirable option for the OR.
Volnaiskra said:I would be very surprised if the retail version ends up being a mere 1080p. Smartphone screens are getting more pixel dense almost by the hour.

When the iphone 5 came out not long ago, it was all "retina display this" and "retina display that". Not long later, various phones such as the samsung galaxy s4 have a considerably higher pixel density, and the iphone 5 looks noticeably less crisp by comparison.

By the time the OR comes out, probably some time in 2015, average pixel density will be far greater than anything today. The problems you mention about resolution will simply be irrelevant.



I don't think it makes much sense for the phone companies to go far beyond full hd (1080) for a 5" device because you simply can not see the difference. Going for a 7" or even bigger display is not a desirable option for the OR.

#71
Posted 06/15/2013 01:52 PM   
[quote="birthright"] however being so conclusive of what can be achieved or not is in itself some form of reverse confirmation bias [/quote] Exactly, and I fear the Irony is lost. Also to be so sure that I am using confirmation bias, by confirming what you want to see, that everyone else is bought into the hype as a fan boy and can not see the faults is also surely not a form of confirmation bias? Do you really need to feel that everyone else is living in hype and not rationality? [quote="bo3b"]I'm not dismissing the mainstream press as confirmation biased, I'm putting that label upon you. [/quote] Seriously dude, to label anyone is the most arrogant thing you can possibly do. Full stop. I have read many user reviews on blogs. The overall sentiment is positive, despite negative comments. That is based on user final words, not mine. I did not buy a 'dev' kit, because I was aware that it was probably not going to live up to my expectations. I am very sure that the consumer model will! My expectations are [u]not[/u] for a perfect device. Far from it. I expect to suffer from a severely decreased pixel density then what I perceive on my monitor. I expect the device to not be comfortable for more then 1 hour at a time. I expect to suffer mild nausea until I get used to it (and maybe that won't go away without ginger or motion sickness pills) if at all. So why are you trying to stick a label on me on "confirmation bias" when I am being pro OR. I am not suggesting that it will be gods gift, and I really think it will take a few generations to remove most of the main niggles. But, for me, I think the consumer model will be a fantastic device that will be a first good step into mainstream VR. Why do you have to paint that as a negative thing? You really need to see what you are doing, because right now you really are painting yourself as numeral uno hypocrite. You’re using everything to confirm that the consumer device will not solve any of the problems, without even knowing the final specs of it. Glad you didn’t try out a beta form of the iPad, otherwise it would have never got launched under your scepticism. We would still live in a world with giant laptops to carry around with us. [quote="foreverseeking"]There is a huge difference between a sceptic and a realist, and to assume that you must be a fan boy or a hater and that no one else has the brain to be 'realist' is seemingly a rather arrogant statement that would appear to suggest that you know your opinion is superior to others... You have dismissed all of the mainstream press in the UK's positive coverage by calling it "confirmation bias". That we are not as clever as you to realise we are only seeing what we want to see....[/quote] [quote="bo3b"]OK, fair enough. I am a little arrogant and dismissive, because I weary of arguing with people who have not actually tried it yet. Yeah, it pisses me off when my opinion as an actual user is dismissed because grandma had a great time with it.[/quote] Bo3b, I have thanked you on your thread for your review. I found it incredibly informative. I have also thanked you again on this one. But am I really to throw away all of the other genuine users opinions because of one random guy I will never meet on this forum? I have weighed all opinions up and the overall response is positive. If You had your way, would I disregard all other reviews and never buy the Oculus Rift? Ok, and now I get labelled in a negative fashion because I am enthused about this product. Pfft... [quote="bo3b"]You are suffering most exquisitely from confirmation bias. No matter the drawback that I point, you say it doesn't matter because it's only beta, and the consumer version will be better. And moreover, here are 25 websites who say it's totally awesome, so you must be wrong.[/quote] Most arrogant person on the internet award goes to.... Seriously, wtf bo3b. I agree with your points. Low resolution is a big problem. 1080p will go a long way to helping this. Will it be perfect? [u]NO![/u] But I was playing on 320x200 as a kid, and I thought that looked amazing! Strap me into doom at that res, and I’ll still have a great time. That is not confirmation bias!! That is, we are all different people Bo3d, and we put [u]preferences on different things[/u]! I prefer immersion, and my experience on VR in Florida was amazing. Different opinions are ok. You don’t need to slap labels with negative connotations to put me down and make you feel and seem superior. Heat is a problem for long playing. Fans, better cooling system (air con in your room) can all help to alleviate it. I have raced in motox many times. It gets frickin hot under those goggles even when there isn’t a screen attached to it. It’s a problem, but there are many ways that it can be rectified. So again, these are real problems. I am sure many of them will still be apparent in the consumer model, but lessened. I am not expecting a perfect first consumer device. Please point to me where I have said that? I am quite sure that the overall experience will be worth the €300-400 to purchase a pair, and that it will be good enough to continue the research into better products. Just like how may people here bought into 3D when it wasn’t a fully ready product (terrible ghosting etc.) But we all still got enough enjoyment out of it, to warrant harassing devs to make games 3D ready and spend lots of money on kit that was not perfect. I am very sorry bo3d that I have shown enthusiasm for a new product. In future I will remember to only listen to you instead, ignore the rest of the internet, and assume that I cannot make rational decisions based on the information I read or experience, where as you can.
birthright said: however being so conclusive of what can be achieved or not is in itself some form of reverse confirmation bias

Exactly, and I fear the Irony is lost. Also to be so sure that I am using confirmation bias, by confirming what you want to see, that everyone else is bought into the hype as a fan boy and can not see the faults is also surely not a form of confirmation bias? Do you really need to feel that everyone else is living in hype and not rationality?

bo3b said:I'm not dismissing the mainstream press as confirmation biased, I'm putting that label upon you.

Seriously dude, to label anyone is the most arrogant thing you can possibly do. Full stop. I have read many user reviews on blogs. The overall sentiment is positive, despite negative comments. That is based on user final words, not mine. I did not buy a 'dev' kit, because I was aware that it was probably not going to live up to my expectations. I am very sure that the consumer model will! My expectations are not for a perfect device. Far from it. I expect to suffer from a severely decreased pixel density then what I perceive on my monitor. I expect the device to not be comfortable for more then 1 hour at a time. I expect to suffer mild nausea until I get used to it (and maybe that won't go away without ginger or motion sickness pills) if at all.

So why are you trying to stick a label on me on "confirmation bias" when I am being pro OR. I am not suggesting that it will be gods gift, and I really think it will take a few generations to remove most of the main niggles. But, for me, I think the consumer model will be a fantastic device that will be a first good step into mainstream VR.

Why do you have to paint that as a negative thing? You really need to see what you are doing, because right now you really are painting yourself as numeral uno hypocrite. You’re using everything to confirm that the consumer device will not solve any of the problems, without even knowing the final specs of it. Glad you didn’t try out a beta form of the iPad, otherwise it would have never got launched under your scepticism. We would still live in a world with giant laptops to carry around with us.

foreverseeking said:There is a huge difference between a sceptic and a realist, and to assume that you must be a fan boy or a hater and that no one else has the brain to be 'realist' is seemingly a rather arrogant statement that would appear to suggest that you know your opinion is superior to others... You have dismissed all of the mainstream press in the UK's positive coverage by calling it "confirmation bias". That we are not as clever as you to realise we are only seeing what we want to see....


bo3b said:OK, fair enough. I am a little arrogant and dismissive, because I weary of arguing with people who have not actually tried it yet. Yeah, it pisses me off when my opinion as an actual user is dismissed because grandma had a great time with it.

Bo3b, I have thanked you on your thread for your review. I found it incredibly informative. I have also thanked you again on this one. But am I really to throw away all of the other genuine users opinions because of one random guy I will never meet on this forum? I have weighed all opinions up and the overall response is positive. If You had your way, would I disregard all other reviews and never buy the Oculus Rift? Ok, and now I get labelled in a negative fashion because I am enthused about this product. Pfft...

bo3b said:You are suffering most exquisitely from confirmation bias. No matter the drawback that I point, you say it doesn't matter because it's only beta, and the consumer version will be better. And moreover, here are 25 websites who say it's totally awesome, so you must be wrong.

Most arrogant person on the internet award goes to.... Seriously, wtf bo3b. I agree with your points. Low resolution is a big problem. 1080p will go a long way to helping this. Will it be perfect? NO! But I was playing on 320x200 as a kid, and I thought that looked amazing! Strap me into doom at that res, and I’ll still have a great time. That is not confirmation bias!! That is, we are all different people Bo3d, and we put preferences on different things! I prefer immersion, and my experience on VR in Florida was amazing. Different opinions are ok. You don’t need to slap labels with negative connotations to put me down and make you feel and seem superior.
Heat is a problem for long playing. Fans, better cooling system (air con in your room) can all help to alleviate it. I have raced in motox many times. It gets frickin hot under those goggles even when there isn’t a screen attached to it. It’s a problem, but there are many ways that it can be rectified.
So again, these are real problems. I am sure many of them will still be apparent in the consumer model, but lessened. I am not expecting a perfect first consumer device. Please point to me where I have said that? I am quite sure that the overall experience will be worth the €300-400 to purchase a pair, and that it will be good enough to continue the research into better products. Just like how may people here bought into 3D when it wasn’t a fully ready product (terrible ghosting etc.) But we all still got enough enjoyment out of it, to warrant harassing devs to make games 3D ready and spend lots of money on kit that was not perfect.

I am very sorry bo3d that I have shown enthusiasm for a new product. In future I will remember to only listen to you instead, ignore the rest of the internet, and assume that I cannot make rational decisions based on the information I read or experience, where as you can.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#72
Posted 06/15/2013 04:51 PM   
[quote="2eyed64"]I don't think it makes much sense for the phone companies to go far beyond full hd (1080) for a 5" device because you simply can not see the difference. Going for a 7" or even bigger display is not a desirable option for the OR.[/quote] I think that you are right, the resolution of LCD will likely stay at what the S4 is now (1080). I doubt it will get higher on phones for the reasons you have stated. However, there are other techs that are coming into being that may solve this. Quantum dot displays are just one such possibility. [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8948484/Forget-3D-here-comes-the-QD-TV.html[/url] Sony is releasing the first TV based on the tech this year. So I feel that over the next 4-5 years 1080p will not be the limit for a 5" res at low cost. Only time will tell.
2eyed64 said:I don't think it makes much sense for the phone companies to go far beyond full hd (1080) for a 5" device because you simply can not see the difference. Going for a 7" or even bigger display is not a desirable option for the OR.

I think that you are right, the resolution of LCD will likely stay at what the S4 is now (1080). I doubt it will get higher on phones for the reasons you have stated. However, there are other techs that are coming into being that may solve this. Quantum dot displays are just one such possibility.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8948484/Forget-3D-here-comes-the-QD-TV.html
Sony is releasing the first TV based on the tech this year.

So I feel that over the next 4-5 years 1080p will not be the limit for a 5" res at low cost. Only time will tell.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#73
Posted 06/15/2013 05:05 PM   
@foreverseeking: Sorry man, it was not my intent to piss you off. I apologize.
@foreverseeking: Sorry man, it was not my intent to piss you off. I apologize.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#74
Posted 06/16/2013 12:13 AM   
Regarding Confirmation Bias. It's clear that people are taking this as a grave insult. I'm sorry for that. I did not intend calling out Confirmation Bias as an insult. It's simply a part of human nature, and is something that all of us have. Yes, even me. If you read that superb article I linked before, you may perhaps agree that this is something that we all struggle with, all the time. It's simply part of the human condition. My goal here was to bring it mind, so that we can all try to avoid it.
Regarding Confirmation Bias. It's clear that people are taking this as a grave insult. I'm sorry for that. I did not intend calling out Confirmation Bias as an insult. It's simply a part of human nature, and is something that all of us have. Yes, even me.

If you read that superb article I linked before, you may perhaps agree that this is something that we all struggle with, all the time. It's simply part of the human condition.

My goal here was to bring it mind, so that we can all try to avoid it.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#75
Posted 06/16/2013 12:46 AM   
  5 / 10    
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