1920 X 1080 @120HZ IN 3d yes!!
  5 / 18    
When i went looking to test few dlp projectors i checked out optoma hd25 and same priced vivitek with my friend. Though i have allergy against 1-chip dlp i actually could watch optomas image, in the vivtek demo we both had to turn away from the screen during conversation with the presentitive as the flickery image got so hard on the eyes, so based on that i would not recommend vivtek to my worst enemy
When i went looking to test few dlp projectors i checked out optoma hd25 and same priced vivitek with my friend. Though i have allergy against 1-chip dlp i actually could watch optomas image, in the vivtek demo we both had to turn away from the screen during conversation with the presentitive as the flickery image got so hard on the eyes, so based on that i would not recommend vivtek to my worst enemy

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#61
Posted 07/22/2018 12:37 PM   
That's very misleading, there's nothing wrong with Vivitek as a brand. Are you sure you're not just talking about the DLP rainbow effect? It's a proven fact that this is dependent on a number of things, including colour wheel speed and segments. A high speed RGBRGB wheel has the least rainbow effect, all other things being equal.
That's very misleading, there's nothing wrong with Vivitek as a brand.

Are you sure you're not just talking about the DLP rainbow effect? It's a proven fact that this is dependent on a number of things, including colour wheel speed and segments.

A high speed RGBRGB wheel has the least rainbow effect, all other things being equal.

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

#62
Posted 07/22/2018 02:39 PM   
[quote="J-Enermax"]like this.. both the darkening part and the immersion solved? [img]https://c.76.my/Malaysia/diy-google-cardboard-vr-3d-glasses-android-ios-iphone-samsung-htc-l-1512-28-limgrouptrading@1.jpg[/img][/quote] xD Wish the time will come where the rift or vive could achieve this through 3d Vision. Im still a bit skeptical about having pixels so close to my eyes for extensive periods though. But I guess having lenses flicker even closer aint any better either. [img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/75463/[/img]
J-Enermax said:like this.. both the darkening part and the immersion solved?

Image


xD

Wish the time will come where the rift or vive could achieve this through 3d Vision. Im still a bit skeptical about having pixels so close to my eyes for extensive periods though. But I guess having lenses flicker even closer aint any better either.

Image
Attachments

HmmmLOL.png

#63
Posted 07/22/2018 03:50 PM   
To be fair, no studies have shown that there is any correlation between sitting close to the tv/screen/pixels/LCD glasses/VR close to the eyes and any eye damage or eye development problems. It's just an old wives tale that moms in the old days might have read in their Cosmo due to one time faulty TV sets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNF2obHWHC0 The closest thing is if you hold things e.g. books close to your face while growing up, you might need glasses for nearsightedness (myopia). Or you might get eye strain if you stare at any object for too long, even a house plant.
To be fair, no studies have shown that there is any correlation between sitting close to the tv/screen/pixels/LCD glasses/VR close to the eyes and any eye damage or eye development problems.

It's just an old wives tale that moms in the old days might have read in their Cosmo due to one time faulty TV sets.



The closest thing is if you hold things e.g. books close to your face while growing up, you might need glasses for nearsightedness (myopia).

Or you might get eye strain if you stare at any object for too long, even a house plant.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#64
Posted 07/22/2018 04:39 PM   
[quote="rustyk21"]That's very misleading, there's nothing wrong with Vivitek as a brand. Are you sure you're not just talking about the DLP rainbow effect? It's a proven fact that this is dependent on a number of things, including colour wheel speed and segments. A high speed RGBRGB wheel has the least rainbow effect, all other things being equal.[/quote] Yes it Was rbe flicker, Well i use term flicker as to me its as flicker. The point is those two units were having same rgbrgb 6x wheel.
rustyk21 said:That's very misleading, there's nothing wrong with Vivitek as a brand.

Are you sure you're not just talking about the DLP rainbow effect? It's a proven fact that this is dependent on a number of things, including colour wheel speed and segments.

A high speed RGBRGB wheel has the least rainbow effect, all other things being equal.


Yes it Was rbe flicker, Well i use term flicker as to me its as flicker.
The point is those two units were having same rgbrgb 6x wheel.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#65
Posted 07/22/2018 04:41 PM   
......unless there has been similar case as described in this article about wrong colorwheel with shipped product. https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2009/12/first-look-optoma-hd20-vivitek-h1080fd-front-projectors/index.htm
......unless there has been similar case as described in this article about wrong colorwheel with shipped product.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2009/12/first-look-optoma-hd20-vivitek-h1080fd-front-projectors/index.htm

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#66
Posted 07/22/2018 04:47 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]To be fair, no studies have shown that there is any correlation between sitting close to the tv/screen/pixels/LCD glasses/VR close to the eyes and any eye damage or eye development problems. It's just an old wives tail that moms in the old days might have read in their Cosmo due to one time faulty TV sets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNF2obHWHC0 The closest thing is if you hold things e.g. books close to your face while growing up, you might need glasses for nearsightedness (myopia). Or you might get eye strain if you stare at any object for too long, even a house plant.[/quote] I'm very curious whether our eyesight are adjusted/focused by the illusions. As if it actually focuses on stuff in the distance as it would in reality? If there are side effects from staring at something in the distance when in fact you are staring at a flat surface few feet away. My personal speculation is that our eyes are better off in 3D Vision than a flat surface alone. Your eye muscles actually have physical exercises. 3d Vision users are currently the most experienced stereoscopic enthusiasts and if studies had to be made it should be done here. I remember when my only option in the early stages of 3D Vision was a 19" CRT at 100Hz. Think I played at 800x600. Eyestrain used to be bad back then but the fascination kept me going. Since then I had to start wearing glasses. Still not sure if the cause was the prescribed sunglasses or my job as a draughtsman where I sit and stare at a monitor 500mm away 10 hours a day. Probably a combination. Not to derail or hijack this thread. Very excited to experience 3D Vision on one of these new PJ's in 1080p!!!! Never thought it would come so soon.
RAGEdemon said:To be fair, no studies have shown that there is any correlation between sitting close to the tv/screen/pixels/LCD glasses/VR close to the eyes and any eye damage or eye development problems.

It's just an old wives tail that moms in the old days might have read in their Cosmo due to one time faulty TV sets.



The closest thing is if you hold things e.g. books close to your face while growing up, you might need glasses for nearsightedness (myopia).

Or you might get eye strain if you stare at any object for too long, even a house plant.


I'm very curious whether our eyesight are adjusted/focused by the illusions. As if it actually focuses on stuff in the distance as it would in reality? If there are side effects from staring at something in the distance when in fact you are staring at a flat surface few feet away. My personal speculation is that our eyes are better off in 3D Vision than a flat surface alone. Your eye muscles actually have physical exercises. 3d Vision users are currently the most experienced stereoscopic enthusiasts and if studies had to be made it should be done here.

I remember when my only option in the early stages of 3D Vision was a 19" CRT at 100Hz. Think I played at 800x600. Eyestrain used to be bad back then but the fascination kept me going. Since then I had to start wearing glasses. Still not sure if the cause was the prescribed sunglasses or my job as a draughtsman where I sit and stare at a monitor 500mm away 10 hours a day. Probably a combination.

Not to derail or hijack this thread. Very excited to experience 3D Vision on one of these new PJ's in 1080p!!!! Never thought it would come so soon.

#67
Posted 07/22/2018 05:50 PM   
[quote="KoelerMeester"][quote="RAGEdemon"]To be fair, no studies have shown that there is any correlation between sitting close to the tv/screen/pixels/LCD glasses/VR close to the eyes and any eye damage or eye development problems. It's just an old wives tail that moms in the old days might have read in their Cosmo due to one time faulty TV sets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNF2obHWHC0 The closest thing is if you hold things e.g. books close to your face while growing up, you might need glasses for nearsightedness (myopia). Or you might get eye strain if you stare at any object for too long, even a house plant.[/quote] I'm very curious whether our eyesight are adjusted/focused by the illusions. As if it actually focuses on stuff in the distance as it would in reality? If there are side effects from staring at something in the distance when in fact you are staring at a flat surface few feet away. My personal speculation is that our eyes are better off in 3D Vision than a flat surface alone. Your eye muscles actually have physical exercises. 3d Vision users are currently the most experienced stereoscopic enthusiasts and if studies had to be made it should be done here. I remember when my only option in the early stages of 3D Vision was a 19" CRT at 100Hz. Think I played at 800x600. Eyestrain used to be bad back then but the fascination kept me going. Since then I had to start wearing glasses. Still not sure if the cause was the prescribed sunglasses or my job as a draughtsman where I sit and stare at a monitor 500mm away 10 hours a day. Probably a combination. Not to derail or hijack this thread. Very excited to experience 3D Vision on one of these new PJ's in 1080p!!!! Never thought it would come so soon. [/quote] Soon?....huh, don't know about anyone else here but I have been waiting for a projector that does 1080p 3D @120hz for about 8+ years :)
KoelerMeester said:
RAGEdemon said:To be fair, no studies have shown that there is any correlation between sitting close to the tv/screen/pixels/LCD glasses/VR close to the eyes and any eye damage or eye development problems.

It's just an old wives tail that moms in the old days might have read in their Cosmo due to one time faulty TV sets.



The closest thing is if you hold things e.g. books close to your face while growing up, you might need glasses for nearsightedness (myopia).

Or you might get eye strain if you stare at any object for too long, even a house plant.


I'm very curious whether our eyesight are adjusted/focused by the illusions. As if it actually focuses on stuff in the distance as it would in reality? If there are side effects from staring at something in the distance when in fact you are staring at a flat surface few feet away. My personal speculation is that our eyes are better off in 3D Vision than a flat surface alone. Your eye muscles actually have physical exercises. 3d Vision users are currently the most experienced stereoscopic enthusiasts and if studies had to be made it should be done here.

I remember when my only option in the early stages of 3D Vision was a 19" CRT at 100Hz. Think I played at 800x600. Eyestrain used to be bad back then but the fascination kept me going. Since then I had to start wearing glasses. Still not sure if the cause was the prescribed sunglasses or my job as a draughtsman where I sit and stare at a monitor 500mm away 10 hours a day. Probably a combination.

Not to derail or hijack this thread. Very excited to experience 3D Vision on one of these new PJ's in 1080p!!!! Never thought it would come so soon.



Soon?....huh, don't know about anyone else here but I have been waiting for a projector that does 1080p 3D @120hz for about 8+ years :)

Intel 7700k @ 4.2Ghz / 32GB @ 3200
Asus Z270 / 2 x Evga 1070
4 x Samsung 840 Raid 0
4 x Samsung 850 Pro Raid 0
Samsung 950 Pro
Epson 5040UB 3DTVPlay

#68
Posted 07/24/2018 12:04 AM   
[quote="mgriggs22"] Soon?....huh, don't know about anyone else here but I have been waiting for a projector that does 1080p 3D @120hz for about 8+ years :)[/quote] This sentiment resonates with me too; and IMHO, too little too late. I personally shall wait a little longer in the hopes of a 1600/1440p 120Hz projector solution.
mgriggs22 said:
Soon?....huh, don't know about anyone else here but I have been waiting for a projector that does 1080p 3D @120hz for about 8+ years :)


This sentiment resonates with me too; and IMHO, too little too late. I personally shall wait a little longer in the hopes of a 1600/1440p 120Hz projector solution.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#69
Posted 07/24/2018 02:30 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]This sentiment resonates with me too; and IMHO, too little too late. I personally shall wait a little longer in the hopes of a 1600/1440p 120Hz projector solution.[/quote] What are your reasons not to go dual passive instead? [quote="mgriggs22"]Soon?....huh, don't know about anyone else here but I have been waiting for a projector that does 1080p 3D @120hz for about 8+ years :)[/quote] Been following these threads for a long time and understand the anticipation. Personally only got into it a few months ago. Thank you random customer from ebay. (For the future of my hypothetical kids which I don't want to grow up poor I need to make calculated decisions with the $$$ passing through my hands) The dual projection method has been there all this time. From my personal cerebration there cant be anything better than this. You could blow 3D Vision through two 4K projectors with passive 3D? What could be more glorious?....and demanding...? I'm befuddled by the guys who went to 4K OLED, who had 720p ghost free, when they could have afforded dual passive 1080p projection. I would have loved to try it out myself if money was of no concern. Wont deny that though. The shift is a small compromise from 1080p to 720p. But the size of Lara's ghost-free 3 dimensional boobs on 100 inches had me convicted. And.....there were 2 of them, O.N.L.Y 2! =)
RAGEdemon said:This sentiment resonates with me too; and IMHO, too little too late. I personally shall wait a little longer in the hopes of a 1600/1440p 120Hz projector solution.

What are your reasons not to go dual passive instead?

mgriggs22 said:Soon?....huh, don't know about anyone else here but I have been waiting for a projector that does 1080p 3D @120hz for about 8+ years :)

Been following these threads for a long time and understand the anticipation. Personally only got into it a few months ago. Thank you random customer from ebay.
(For the future of my hypothetical kids which I don't want to grow up poor I need to make calculated decisions with the $$$ passing through my hands)

The dual projection method has been there all this time. From my personal cerebration there cant be anything better than this. You could blow 3D Vision through two 4K projectors with passive 3D? What could be more glorious?....and demanding...?

I'm befuddled by the guys who went to 4K OLED, who had 720p ghost free, when they could have afforded dual passive 1080p projection. I would have loved to try it out myself if money was of no concern. Wont deny that though.

The shift is a small compromise from 1080p to 720p. But the size of Lara's ghost-free 3 dimensional boobs on 100 inches had me convicted. And.....there were 2 of them, O.N.L.Y 2! =)

#70
Posted 07/24/2018 09:38 AM   
[quote="KoelerMeester"] [quote="RAGEdemon"]This sentiment resonates with me too; and IMHO, too little too late. I personally shall wait a little longer in the hopes of a 1600/1440p 120Hz projector solution.[/quote] What are your reasons not to go dual passive instead?[/quote] This is my personal opinion: I have tried passive at numerous cinemas and have read through threads by Metal-O-Holic and others who have these amazing setups. 1. I personally find no difference in quality between passive and active, as flicker doesn't bother me and I use a 2.5 gain glass bead screen so there is no substantial difference in brightness either. What does bother me is ghosting/crosstalk that passives are more susceptible to. 2. Lack of 120Hz 2D gaming / desktop. - A 60Hz cursor, even while web browsing / smooth scrolling makes me cringe personally. 4. I'm also cautious of the high resolution itself, and the effect it will have to the gaming experience; i.e. The horsepower needed to run it: - I personally detest aliasing. At 800p, I can run 4xDSR (with 0% blurring; the only DSR settings worthwhile) which is the best Antlaliasing possible on modern graphics cards. Combined with sharpening filters from the likes of reshade, the image is already quite stunning. The problem is that even with dual overclocked 1080s, I am lucky to maintain 60fps in 3DV @ 2560x1600. At real 1600p, to aim for 60fps, I shall have to play with reduced antialiasing or even without; with sharpening filters exacerbating the aliasing problem. Or alternatively, 3DV with 4x DSR of 1600p to 5K (equivalent to trying to 2D game at ~8K) and play at ~20FPS in 3DV - the prospect does not seem attractive to me, all things considered. 5. The expense vs personal value. I appreciate that it can be a huge improvement for some. Unfortunately(/fortunately) not enough for me to justify the price. Of course, all of the above is very subjective and comes only from personal preference. I'm sure there are people who have completely contrasting opinions, who will be just as 'correct' with their reasoning :)
KoelerMeester said:
RAGEdemon said:This sentiment resonates with me too; and IMHO, too little too late. I personally shall wait a little longer in the hopes of a 1600/1440p 120Hz projector solution.

What are your reasons not to go dual passive instead?


This is my personal opinion:

I have tried passive at numerous cinemas and have read through threads by Metal-O-Holic and others who have these amazing setups.

1. I personally find no difference in quality between passive and active, as flicker doesn't bother me and I use a 2.5 gain glass bead screen so there is no substantial difference in brightness either. What does bother me is ghosting/crosstalk that passives are more susceptible to.

2. Lack of 120Hz 2D gaming / desktop. - A 60Hz cursor, even while web browsing / smooth scrolling makes me cringe personally.

4. I'm also cautious of the high resolution itself, and the effect it will have to the gaming experience; i.e. The horsepower needed to run it:

- I personally detest aliasing. At 800p, I can run 4xDSR (with 0% blurring; the only DSR settings worthwhile) which is the best Antlaliasing possible on modern graphics cards. Combined with sharpening filters from the likes of reshade, the image is already quite stunning.
The problem is that even with dual overclocked 1080s, I am lucky to maintain 60fps in 3DV @ 2560x1600.

At real 1600p, to aim for 60fps, I shall have to play with reduced antialiasing or even without; with sharpening filters exacerbating the aliasing problem. Or alternatively, 3DV with 4x DSR of 1600p to 5K (equivalent to trying to 2D game at ~8K) and play at ~20FPS in 3DV - the prospect does not seem attractive to me, all things considered.

5. The expense vs personal value. I appreciate that it can be a huge improvement for some. Unfortunately(/fortunately) not enough for me to justify the price.

Of course, all of the above is very subjective and comes only from personal preference. I'm sure there are people who have completely contrasting opinions, who will be just as 'correct' with their reasoning :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#71
Posted 07/24/2018 12:18 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]What does bother me is ghosting/crosstalk that passives are more susceptible to.[/quote] Must have missed this before here on the forum... On Sunday I went to watch the new Antman, which, apart from the good story, sound effects and action, was a really great 3D experience. Must have missed about 10% of the story while looking for flaws in the 3D quality. The depth was equal to Avatar and didnt notice any "fakeness". Could only assume it might have been shot with a dual camera setup. IME this is more superior, compared to my W1070 active. (Price-wise, and for some other reasons, I know you cant really compare this). But the 3D had 0 crosstalk. Is the quality much different from the passive guys are using in here? (Ghost-wise speaking) I agree with most other things you mentioned.
RAGEdemon said:What does bother me is ghosting/crosstalk that passives are more susceptible to.

Must have missed this before here on the forum...

On Sunday I went to watch the new Antman, which, apart from the good story, sound effects and action, was a really great 3D experience. Must have missed about 10% of the story while looking for flaws in the 3D quality. The depth was equal to Avatar and didnt notice any "fakeness". Could only assume it might have been shot with a dual camera setup. IME this is more superior, compared to my W1070 active. (Price-wise, and for some other reasons, I know you cant really compare this). But the 3D had 0 crosstalk. Is the quality much different from the passive guys are using in here? (Ghost-wise speaking)

I agree with most other things you mentioned.

#72
Posted 07/26/2018 07:28 AM   
I never had a passive projector - only in cinemas I saw passive 3D so far. And I agree with RAGEdemon: I also saw massive amount of ghosting in high contrast scenes with passive 3D. Maybe it's because the cinema here is no good xD. When going to another cinema with active 3D there's no ghosting but the brightness is too low (much lower than on my private projector) and the shutter glasses are unconfomfortable to wear because they are too big / heavy (maybe over 60g? Normal DLP glasses for home entertainment are 20-40g). 3D Vision glasses are also relative big but much more comfortable. So I prefer to watch 3D movies at home with my 3D projector (higher brightness, no ghosting and much more comfortable at home) and only go to cinema when a movie is available in 2D and I really can't wait to watch it.
I never had a passive projector - only in cinemas I saw passive 3D so far. And I agree with RAGEdemon: I also saw massive amount of ghosting in high contrast scenes with passive 3D. Maybe it's because the cinema here is no good xD. When going to another cinema with active 3D there's no ghosting but the brightness is too low (much lower than on my private projector) and the shutter glasses are unconfomfortable to wear because they are too big / heavy (maybe over 60g? Normal DLP glasses for home entertainment are 20-40g). 3D Vision glasses are also relative big but much more comfortable. So I prefer to watch 3D movies at home with my 3D projector (higher brightness, no ghosting and much more comfortable at home) and only go to cinema when a movie is available in 2D and I really can't wait to watch it.

ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de

#73
Posted 07/26/2018 10:00 AM   
I use a dual-projector setup. Some remarks made by Ragedemon are true, some are highly dependent on the hardware used, some I find questionable. What I can agree on : - crosstalk : I'm using passive polarized, and fighting crosstalk has takes a lot of work and money. I use linear polarization (cinemas use circular polarization which suffers from more crosstalk). I had to buy specialized screens in order to get acceptable results. I get less crosstalk than cinemas but the cheapest DLP projector with active shutter glasses on the market will smoke my system in this category. It's not all bad though, passive systems have a very predictable crosstalk behaviour which means it will be completely invisible as long as the scene has enough ambient lighting. Movie directors know about this and avoid making scenes with bright objects in pitch black backgrounds. So once you get the crosstalk low enough, it becomes a non-issue in most movies. This is why you can get movies like Black Panther looking so good even though the system bleeds a lot of crosstalk. But games makers don't care about it. So the results are difficult to predict, it depends greatly on the game. - budget : dual-pj is the most expensive way to make a 3D display. No question about it. You have to buy the projector twice (and light bulbs when changing them), a specialized non-depolarizing screen, the signal converter for 3D Vision compatibility (until we finally manage to get Full-SBS running with 3D Migoto, so far I have only managed half-sbs) etc... What depends on the hardware : - 120Hz 2D : the beauty of dual-pj is that you can use any 2D projector. I still use my 8 years old pair of Epson EH-TW3500 (60Hz 2D projectors). So you can perfectly buy 120Hz 2D projectors and they will work. And as a bonus you'll be able to experiment with higher than 60Hz 3D (try and push as high as your signal processor can handle). Or try direct drive if you manage to get Full-res side by side running. - crosstalk : the screen is the limiting factor of the polarized dual-pj. You don't just want any polarization preserving screen, you want one that can keep more than 99%, the decimals after 99% are what really counts. - The Omega Option. It works similarly to Dolby 3D, but contrarily to Dolby it's a system you (a home user) actually can buy. Advantage : Zero crosstalk (just like active DLP), and it works with any screen The drawbacks : reflective filters means you need to paint your walls black, the glasses are ugly and bulky, and the unpredictable colour correction. (the best bet for good colour is a 1-chip DLP projector with RGB+CMY colour wheel, but even then it's no guarantee) What I disagree on : -Passive is half resolution : This is onyly true for TVs (FPR technology). My dual-pj system is full resolution 1080p. It has always been from the very start 8 years ago when I used AMD cards with the iZ3D driver, it is still true today with Tridef (SBS full-resolution) or 3D Vision (frame sequential) drivers -horse power : Dual-pj uses the same horse power as the same resolution active screen. If you are running 1080p 3D Vision, the equivalent 1080p dual-pj will use the same power -DSR vs higher native resolution : The whole point of DSR is to allow your games to render at higher resolution and then scale back to your screen's resolution. So just outputting that extra resolution straight to the pixels should not take any extra ressources. 800p with 4x DSR should produce the same number of pixels as native 1600p. So if you have the horse power to run such a high resolution with downscaling, why not just send those pixels straight to screen ? I also have a passionate hate of aliasing, however I am more annoyed by the flicker of motion aliasing than static staircases. At the moment, I am fascinated by the advances in temporal AA algorithms. No every developer gets it right, but the new twists in TAA algorithms looks very promising for solving motion aliasing issues and artificially increasing resolution in static scenes.
I use a dual-projector setup.

Some remarks made by Ragedemon are true, some are highly dependent on the hardware used, some I find questionable.

What I can agree on :
- crosstalk : I'm using passive polarized, and fighting crosstalk has takes a lot of work and money. I use linear polarization (cinemas use circular polarization which suffers from more crosstalk).
I had to buy specialized screens in order to get acceptable results. I get less crosstalk than cinemas but the cheapest DLP projector with active shutter glasses on the market will smoke my system in this category.

It's not all bad though, passive systems have a very predictable crosstalk behaviour which means it will be completely invisible as long as the scene has enough ambient lighting.
Movie directors know about this and avoid making scenes with bright objects in pitch black backgrounds. So once you get the crosstalk low enough, it becomes a non-issue in most movies. This is why you can get movies like Black Panther looking so good even though the system bleeds a lot of crosstalk.
But games makers don't care about it. So the results are difficult to predict, it depends greatly on the game.

- budget : dual-pj is the most expensive way to make a 3D display. No question about it.
You have to buy the projector twice (and light bulbs when changing them), a specialized non-depolarizing screen, the signal converter for 3D Vision compatibility (until we finally manage to get Full-SBS running with 3D Migoto, so far I have only managed half-sbs) etc...

What depends on the hardware :
- 120Hz 2D : the beauty of dual-pj is that you can use any 2D projector. I still use my 8 years old pair of Epson EH-TW3500 (60Hz 2D projectors). So you can perfectly buy 120Hz 2D projectors and they will work. And as a bonus you'll be able to experiment with higher than 60Hz 3D (try and push as high as your signal processor can handle). Or try direct drive if you manage to get Full-res side by side running.
- crosstalk : the screen is the limiting factor of the polarized dual-pj. You don't just want any polarization preserving screen, you want one that can keep more than 99%, the decimals after 99% are what really counts.

- The Omega Option. It works similarly to Dolby 3D, but contrarily to Dolby it's a system you (a home user) actually can buy.
Advantage : Zero crosstalk (just like active DLP), and it works with any screen
The drawbacks : reflective filters means you need to paint your walls black, the glasses are ugly and bulky, and the unpredictable colour correction. (the best bet for good colour is a 1-chip DLP projector with RGB+CMY colour wheel, but even then it's no guarantee)

What I disagree on :
-Passive is half resolution : This is onyly true for TVs (FPR technology).
My dual-pj system is full resolution 1080p. It has always been from the very start 8 years ago when I used AMD cards with the iZ3D driver, it is still true today with Tridef (SBS full-resolution) or 3D Vision (frame sequential) drivers

-horse power : Dual-pj uses the same horse power as the same resolution active screen.
If you are running 1080p 3D Vision, the equivalent 1080p dual-pj will use the same power

-DSR vs higher native resolution : The whole point of DSR is to allow your games to render at higher resolution and then scale back to your screen's resolution. So just outputting that extra resolution straight to the pixels should not take any extra ressources.

800p with 4x DSR should produce the same number of pixels as native 1600p.
So if you have the horse power to run such a high resolution with downscaling, why not just send those pixels straight to screen ?

I also have a passionate hate of aliasing, however I am more annoyed by the flicker of motion aliasing than static staircases. At the moment, I am fascinated by the advances in temporal AA algorithms.
No every developer gets it right, but the new twists in TAA algorithms looks very promising for solving motion aliasing issues and artificially increasing resolution in static scenes.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#74
Posted 07/26/2018 10:27 AM   
Im quessing i have a little better crosstalk performance than blackshark as i rarely notice crosstalk white on black gives a fainth shadow but in movies crosstalk is not visible At all and games Yes rare and only fainth shadow.downside is i got a little more noise propably than blackshark. But Atleast to me my setup Overal bests active solutions hands down like day and night.
Im quessing i have a little better crosstalk performance than blackshark as i rarely notice crosstalk white on black gives a fainth shadow but in movies crosstalk is not visible At all and games Yes rare and only fainth shadow.downside is i got a little more noise propably than blackshark. But Atleast to me my setup Overal bests active solutions hands down like day and night.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#75
Posted 07/26/2018 10:59 AM   
  5 / 18    
Scroll To Top