Nvidia to showcase it's own VR HMD at GDC 2015
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Meh I agree with Paul.... I dont consider VR focus credible. Not to mention the first article on page I see compares The Order which is an on rails third person with VR. Which is just a shoe horn article for fanboyism for future Morpheus device. I have a feeling *if its true* its very likely this is not a "PC" based device but a "shield/android" based device [Which is crap] ------------- Regardless I have a extreme lack of faith in nvidia making it "work". Even ignoring 3D vision prejudices. They just refuse to work with developers and basically expect them to bend over backwards to support there technologies out of good will. Look at downward trend of sli, 3d vision, physx, etc. They pretty much will only work with AAA companies like Ubisoft/Treyarch/Infinity Ward who care little more then cashing a pay check. No idea why people have faith in Nvidia but Id put money on Valve. I can literally think of 10 reasons why Valve is more likely to succeed over nvidia off the top of my head.
Meh I agree with Paul.... I dont consider VR focus credible. Not to mention the first article on page I see compares The Order which is an on rails third person with VR. Which is just a shoe horn article for fanboyism for future Morpheus device.

I have a feeling *if its true* its very likely this is not a "PC" based device but a "shield/android" based device [Which is crap]
-------------
Regardless I have a extreme lack of faith in nvidia making it "work". Even ignoring 3D vision prejudices.
They just refuse to work with developers and basically expect them to bend over backwards to support there technologies out of good will.
Look at downward trend of sli, 3d vision, physx, etc.
They pretty much will only work with AAA companies like Ubisoft/Treyarch/Infinity Ward who care little more then cashing a pay check.

No idea why people have faith in Nvidia but Id put money on Valve.
I can literally think of 10 reasons why Valve is more likely to succeed over nvidia off the top of my head.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#16
Posted 02/26/2015 07:14 AM   
[quote="mistersvin"]I have faith in VR from nvidia. [/quote] The same, because they have created 3d vision, and atleast at the start it will be great experience.
mistersvin said:I have faith in VR from nvidia.

The same, because they have created 3d vision, and atleast at the start it will be great experience.

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#17
Posted 02/26/2015 07:15 AM   
Haha. You'll be lucky if you turn it on and get a picture, 3D won't work in 98% of games, there will be no SLI profiles and you'll probably have to pay for a VR license to use the nvidia card and nvidia headset together. It's nvidia, the ideas, insight, innovation will be there. So will the hardware. They'll just cripple it with bad drivers and greedy ethics. Like they do everything else! Mark my words.
Haha.
You'll be lucky if you turn it on and get a picture, 3D won't work in 98% of games, there will be no SLI profiles and you'll probably have to pay for a VR license to use the nvidia card and nvidia headset together.
It's nvidia, the ideas, insight, innovation will be there. So will the hardware. They'll just cripple it with bad drivers and greedy ethics. Like they do everything else!
Mark my words.

#18
Posted 02/26/2015 10:39 AM   
I agree with eqzitara, my money is on Valve if I have to choose. I only use Nvidia because the incredible community here makes 3d still an option, not thanks to nvidia itself, I have no kind of loyalty to them at all.
I agree with eqzitara, my money is on Valve if I have to choose. I only use Nvidia because the incredible community here makes 3d still an option, not thanks to nvidia itself, I have no kind of loyalty to them at all.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#19
Posted 02/26/2015 01:50 PM   
3D VR (and AR) is not really about the HMD device - it is primarily about the content and experience. How is Valve addressing the game developer/game engine side? These developers have little 3D development experience, focusing instead upon 2D based development and testing. Many (and growing, with indie) game developers are likely to continue to be reluctant to embrace VR until some type of HMD standard exists. Without it, each device is likely to require bo3b/helifax type support for their game titles. Or offer a device with very limited content, and fail for lack of consumer interest. Why have both 3D and 4K been so SLOOOOW to gain consumer acceptance? A key issue has been lack of relevant content, to justify their money/investment and interest/time. For more disruptive technologies like VR, device integration into existing game libraries and infrastructure is essential - greatly accelerating consumer adoption. In the end, we all want immersive VR gaming to be successful. Unfortunately, only NVIDIA (including its supporting community) and TriDef currently have this type of unique experience. NVIDIA really needs to step up its support to for the difficult software side of 3D gaming (both 3D Vision AND 3DTV Play) - not accelerate its more narrow hardware focus.
3D VR (and AR) is not really about the HMD device - it is primarily about the content and experience. How is Valve addressing the game developer/game engine side? These developers have little 3D development experience, focusing instead upon 2D based development and testing. Many (and growing, with indie) game developers are likely to continue to be reluctant to embrace VR until some type of HMD standard exists. Without it, each device is likely to require bo3b/helifax type support for their game titles. Or offer a device with very limited content, and fail for lack of consumer interest.

Why have both 3D and 4K been so SLOOOOW to gain consumer acceptance? A key issue has been lack of relevant content, to justify their money/investment and interest/time. For more disruptive technologies like VR, device integration into existing game libraries and infrastructure is essential - greatly accelerating consumer adoption. In the end, we all want immersive VR gaming to be successful.

Unfortunately, only NVIDIA (including its supporting community) and TriDef currently have this type of unique experience. NVIDIA really needs to step up its support to for the difficult software side of 3D gaming (both 3D Vision AND 3DTV Play) - not accelerate its more narrow hardware focus.

#20
Posted 02/26/2015 03:09 PM   
/\ I don't believe any of that really. 3D creation is not that much more difficult if it's accounted for in the design stage (which, historically, had almost never happened... hence the problems). The VR warping is just a shader. So it's not like it's a herculean effort to make the switch. And even if they did all use different shaders, Valve announced the Steam VR API a year ago. It does exactly this. And what Indie developer doesn't use the Steam API anyways? As for indies, the market has become incredibly congested. It used to be, just being a new release on Steam got you a ton of exposure. Now it seems like 25 games release each day. If you're looking to create separation and exposure for yourself, this is the new platform to adopt. It's always easiest to break through in a new market. I think this is why you see so much interest in VR in the indie space. It's an opportunity.
/\

I don't believe any of that really. 3D creation is not that much more difficult if it's accounted for in the design stage (which, historically, had almost never happened... hence the problems).

The VR warping is just a shader. So it's not like it's a herculean effort to make the switch. And even if they did all use different shaders, Valve announced the Steam VR API a year ago. It does exactly this. And what Indie developer doesn't use the Steam API anyways?

As for indies, the market has become incredibly congested. It used to be, just being a new release on Steam got you a ton of exposure. Now it seems like 25 games release each day. If you're looking to create separation and exposure for yourself, this is the new platform to adopt. It's always easiest to break through in a new market. I think this is why you see so much interest in VR in the indie space. It's an opportunity.

#21
Posted 02/26/2015 04:16 PM   
[quote="clammy"]I honestly have more faith in smaller companies like Occulus Rift[/quote] It's a small company no more.
clammy said:I honestly have more faith in smaller companies like Occulus Rift

It's a small company no more.

#22
Posted 02/26/2015 05:45 PM   
[quote="Paul33993"] The VR warping is just a shader. So it's not like it's a herculean effort to make the switch. And even if they did all use different shaders, Valve announced the Steam VR API a year ago.[/quote] VR requires both spatial precompensation/transformation for VR optics AND a good 3D baseline for each game. The primary issue is the creation of the S3D game foundation, rather than VR mapping. If it were easy to create good S3D for the various game engines and developer approaches, iZ3D would still be in business, TriDef would not be bordering on insolvency, and NVIDIA would be more actively engaged with 3D Vision profiles again. Game GPU vendors like NVIDIA have the biggest profit motive (that is, sale of more high-end GTX cards), since stereo almost immediately doubles game computational loading. NVIDIA needs to support GTX associated 3D software environments more effectively again.
Paul33993 said:
The VR warping is just a shader. So it's not like it's a herculean effort to make the switch. And even if they did all use different shaders, Valve announced the Steam VR API a year ago.
VR requires both spatial precompensation/transformation for VR optics AND a good 3D baseline for each game. The primary issue is the creation of the S3D game foundation, rather than VR mapping. If it were easy to create good S3D for the various game engines and developer approaches, iZ3D would still be in business, TriDef would not be bordering on insolvency, and NVIDIA would be more actively engaged with 3D Vision profiles again.

Game GPU vendors like NVIDIA have the biggest profit motive (that is, sale of more high-end GTX cards), since stereo almost immediately doubles game computational loading. NVIDIA needs to support GTX associated 3D software environments more effectively again.

#23
Posted 02/26/2015 09:28 PM   
Don't see it as a major deal. VR support is pretty much drag and drop for Unity and UE4. The main reason 3D has stunk has simply been because it hasn't been prioritized. If you're not gaming in 3D, it's real easy to not care about the little things. And on a much larger scale, a lot of the major publishers flat out don't care that they're breaking things. They have to worry about consoles. If cheating gets you better visuals on the power constrained consoles, and nobody but 3D Vision gamers are ever going to notice it, it's not worth caring about from their perspective. On the things they're butchering on a daily basis, this rates near the bottom.
Don't see it as a major deal. VR support is pretty much drag and drop for Unity and UE4.

The main reason 3D has stunk has simply been because it hasn't been prioritized. If you're not gaming in 3D, it's real easy to not care about the little things.

And on a much larger scale, a lot of the major publishers flat out don't care that they're breaking things. They have to worry about consoles. If cheating gets you better visuals on the power constrained consoles, and nobody but 3D Vision gamers are ever going to notice it, it's not worth caring about from their perspective. On the things they're butchering on a daily basis, this rates near the bottom.

#24
Posted 02/26/2015 09:41 PM   
I agree that Nvidia needs to amp up their product line. The cost to the end user is quite high, but the quality of what they have been giving out is good I think. When I got my 3d vision glasses kit, I was honestly love stroken by the quality ect... You do what you can>law With the Vr standard issue, is that I would imagine the FCC does not want people to have a diy HMD blow their face off while trying to maximize their experience. Like home diy labs without engineering backgrounds, tinkering around with volts and electricity/bios code at home ect.. Caution!!! Soon there is going to be **wireless device BATTERY Charing** so if you used a device like the Nvidia steam tablet with a HMD then all this could be kept going with electricity Wirelessly. More important now is "Magnetic Data Pressure Gloves" that give the player with hmd a force feedback on their hands to incorporate grip on Virtual objects, like guns, swords Virtual friendsships ect.. To me most of the hardware based things out now are old news only that hmd have been in the news more and there are more companies of people trying it out now with great expectations. Being said its started out "low budget" Vr . A step in the right direction is to have touch panel with data gloves as far as keyboard gaming goes and if your sitting at your desk in Vr you NEED object awareness or i'm gonna be wheelchair bound or dead of fatal injury.
I agree that Nvidia needs to amp up their product line. The cost to the end user is quite high, but the quality of what they have been giving out is good I think.

When I got my 3d vision glasses kit, I was honestly love stroken by the quality ect...
You do what you can>law

With the Vr standard issue, is that I would imagine the FCC does not want people to have a diy HMD blow their face off while trying to maximize their experience. Like home diy labs without engineering backgrounds, tinkering around with volts and electricity/bios code at home ect.. Caution!!!

Soon there is going to be **wireless device BATTERY Charing** so if you used a device like the Nvidia steam tablet with a HMD then all this could be kept going with electricity Wirelessly.

More important now is "Magnetic Data Pressure Gloves" that give the player with hmd a force feedback on their hands to incorporate grip on Virtual objects, like guns, swords Virtual friendsships ect.. To me most of the hardware based things out now are old news only that hmd have been in the news more and there are more companies of people trying it out now with great expectations. Being said its started out "low budget" Vr .

A step in the right direction is to have touch panel with data gloves as far as keyboard gaming goes and if your sitting at your desk in Vr you NEED object awareness or i'm gonna be wheelchair bound or dead of fatal injury.
#25
Posted 02/27/2015 07:49 PM   
[quote="dominixise"]I agree that Nvidia needs to amp up their product line. The cost to the end user is quite high, but the quality of what they have been giving out is good I think. [/quote]Unfortunately, I question the quality and cost. After only recently getting a 980 card and buying 3DTV Play to play the growing number of recent games not supported by TriDef's Ignition, I discovered a significant technical issue with 3DTV Play - see [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/809649/3d-vision/please-add-hdmi-2-0-support-to-3dtv-play-/post/4461236/#4461236[/url]. Note that SBS and TB have been missing formats for years, as well. After buying the 980 and 3DTV Play, I have returned to Ignition and AMD gaming for now, where I can experience full-frame 1080p60 3D via HDMI.
dominixise said:I agree that Nvidia needs to amp up their product line. The cost to the end user is quite high, but the quality of what they have been giving out is good I think.
Unfortunately, I question the quality and cost. After only recently getting a 980 card and buying 3DTV Play to play the growing number of recent games not supported by TriDef's Ignition, I discovered a significant technical issue with 3DTV Play - see https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/809649/3d-vision/please-add-hdmi-2-0-support-to-3dtv-play-/post/4461236/#4461236. Note that SBS and TB have been missing formats for years, as well. After buying the 980 and 3DTV Play, I have returned to Ignition and AMD gaming for now, where I can experience full-frame 1080p60 3D via HDMI.

#26
Posted 02/27/2015 08:24 PM   
So HTC revealed they've partnered with Valve on an HMD. Dev kit releasing soon, consumer version due by year end. There was mention of two hand controller tracking in the video (via Steam VR hardware). GDC should be quite the VR blow out. Maybe VR Focus wasn't slinging mud at the ceiling. Maybe Nvidia is revealing a headset. Could also be a partnership with Valve. There's almost a sense that Valve could be partnering the way they were with their computer initiative. And there could be multiple partners in this.
So HTC revealed they've partnered with Valve on an HMD. Dev kit releasing soon, consumer version due by year end. There was mention of two hand controller tracking in the video (via Steam VR hardware). GDC should be quite the VR blow out.

Maybe VR Focus wasn't slinging mud at the ceiling. Maybe Nvidia is revealing a headset. Could also be a partnership with Valve. There's almost a sense that Valve could be partnering the way they were with their computer initiative. And there could be multiple partners in this.

#27
Posted 03/01/2015 05:34 PM   
Retail before years end is pretty ambitious. Though its probably true especially since... All the games in development for Oculus will be ported over to Valve's HMD. Sucks to be them right around now especially if they release first. Though I'm not gonna lie thats hilarious. Valve definetly has balls though when everyone see's VR as a huge mystery and they release a trailer day one saying Holiday 2015. Oculus just seems to think everything is a mystery even now. It kind of feels good to see someone being decisive with VR. Like this is gonna happen deal with it. ----------------------------- I ant gonna lie though 1200x1080x2 @ 90 FPS is crazy specs. Hopefully thats like the high end requirement for video but games only need like 75. Cause damn. Not gonna lie but Im pretty excited not just for games for it but I've always said videos can be amazing.... and Valve has Source Film Maker.
Retail before years end is pretty ambitious. Though its probably true especially since...

All the games in development for Oculus will be ported over to Valve's HMD. Sucks to be them right around now especially if they release first. Though I'm not gonna lie thats hilarious.

Valve definetly has balls though when everyone see's VR as a huge mystery and they release a trailer day one saying Holiday 2015. Oculus just seems to think everything is a mystery even now.
It kind of feels good to see someone being decisive with VR. Like this is gonna happen deal with it.
-----------------------------
I ant gonna lie though 1200x1080x2 @ 90 FPS is crazy specs. Hopefully thats like the high end requirement for video but games only need like 75. Cause damn.

Not gonna lie but Im pretty excited not just for games for it but I've always said videos can be amazing.... and Valve has Source Film Maker.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#28
Posted 03/01/2015 09:12 PM   
The whole minimum hz varies though. 75 hz seems to be the absolute minimum that a small percentage of the population maxes out at. I believe Oculus when they state the majority begin to stop noticing improvements at 90hz (although some can go at least to 120hz). I'm definitely in the group that senses motion isn't as smooth as it should be when the head is moving around. It's not really the screen update rate that's deficient, it's how the brain reacts to the screen not refreshing fast enough to sync with head motion. I'm not saying it's a judder fest for me, but it's definitely a subtle issue that would ever keep me from achieving true presence on the DK2 @ 75hz.
The whole minimum hz varies though. 75 hz seems to be the absolute minimum that a small percentage of the population maxes out at.

I believe Oculus when they state the majority begin to stop noticing improvements at 90hz (although some can go at least to 120hz). I'm definitely in the group that senses motion isn't as smooth as it should be when the head is moving around.

It's not really the screen update rate that's deficient, it's how the brain reacts to the screen not refreshing fast enough to sync with head motion.

I'm not saying it's a judder fest for me, but it's definitely a subtle issue that would ever keep me from achieving true presence on the DK2 @ 75hz.

#29
Posted 03/02/2015 12:09 AM   
But whose to say for Valve's device. I understand what your saying with brain reacting to screen refresh rate. But its got a lot of factors. Its definitely related to FOV[Distortion] but I really couldnt say if how close eye to screen is a factor which might be further due to two larger screens. It may even require higher refresh rate if FOV is higher I'd imagine. But couldnt there be mitigating factors as well for a device needing less refresh rate as well [besides less fov]. Like if device has signifigantly lower latency/ no judder ever wouldnt that be a huge factor?
But whose to say for Valve's device.

I understand what your saying with brain reacting to screen refresh rate. But its got a lot of factors.
Its definitely related to FOV[Distortion] but I really couldnt say if how close eye to screen is a factor which might be further due to two larger screens. It may even require higher refresh rate if FOV is higher I'd imagine.

But couldnt there be mitigating factors as well for a device needing less refresh rate as well [besides less fov].
Like if device has signifigantly lower latency/ no judder ever wouldnt that be a huge factor?

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#30
Posted 03/02/2015 05:19 AM   
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