Sony KDL-32ex720, GTX580, and 3D TV PLAY something isnt right...
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i've posted about this before but instead of just adding to it, im going to start a new thread.

I currently have the 32EX720, and am upgrading to the 40" soon, but maybe i need to go with a different brand completely? i just picked up the sony 3d glasses kit, and bought the nVidia 3DTV play software, but the games i tried looked horrid... i tried Mirror's Edge and the right eye was very dark and the left was flickering really bad. so i tried the other pair of glasses that came with the kit, same thing... lots of flickering no matter what. i got the desktop background to show that dual image thing so its in 3D only once, and cant seem to get anything to work right. i downloaded the newest driver for my GPU and im kinda at a loss. i got a ESN for the 3DTV play, but i cant see where to open the software or how to even use it.

as far as the physical TV goes, seems i can only use 3D when its in 1080p 23hz... what LED sets 40" and under are going to have 1080p60? that will look the best, right?

any questions, ask away!
i've posted about this before but instead of just adding to it, im going to start a new thread.



I currently have the 32EX720, and am upgrading to the 40" soon, but maybe i need to go with a different brand completely? i just picked up the sony 3d glasses kit, and bought the nVidia 3DTV play software, but the games i tried looked horrid... i tried Mirror's Edge and the right eye was very dark and the left was flickering really bad. so i tried the other pair of glasses that came with the kit, same thing... lots of flickering no matter what. i got the desktop background to show that dual image thing so its in 3D only once, and cant seem to get anything to work right. i downloaded the newest driver for my GPU and im kinda at a loss. i got a ESN for the 3DTV play, but i cant see where to open the software or how to even use it.



as far as the physical TV goes, seems i can only use 3D when its in 1080p 23hz... what LED sets 40" and under are going to have 1080p60? that will look the best, right?



any questions, ask away!

Intel Core i7 930 (OC 4.1 @ 1.4v)- EVGA E760 Classified - 6G Corsair XMS3 DDR3 7-7-7-20 1800 - Corsair H70 w/dual Enermax Magma 12cm - EVGA GTX580 SC - Enermax Revoluion 1050w 85+ - Killer Bigfoot NPU - Creative SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty - Lian Li PC-A7110 Black

#1
Posted 04/20/2011 12:27 AM   
[quote name='Xann' date='19 April 2011 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1303259266' post='1227548']
I currently have the 32EX720, and am upgrading to the 40" soon, but maybe i need to go with a different brand completely?[/quote]
Exactly. Only Samsung can do native rez 1 to 1 pixel mapping and full 60 Hz Framerate. Ditch the Sony, get the comparable Samsung.
[quote name='Xann' date='19 April 2011 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1303259266' post='1227548']

I currently have the 32EX720, and am upgrading to the 40" soon, but maybe i need to go with a different brand completely?

Exactly. Only Samsung can do native rez 1 to 1 pixel mapping and full 60 Hz Framerate. Ditch the Sony, get the comparable Samsung.

#2
Posted 04/20/2011 12:41 AM   
[quote name='roller11' date='19 April 2011 - 05:41 PM' timestamp='1303260101' post='1227558']
Exactly. Only Samsung can do native rez 1 to 1 pixel mapping and full 60 Hz Framerate. Ditch the Sony, get the comparable Samsung.
[/quote]


This does not help my situation right now. for instance, the 1 lense being way darker only while trying to play Mirror's edge? how can i solve that now? and what model samsung in a 32"-40" will have the 1080p60?
[quote name='roller11' date='19 April 2011 - 05:41 PM' timestamp='1303260101' post='1227558']

Exactly. Only Samsung can do native rez 1 to 1 pixel mapping and full 60 Hz Framerate. Ditch the Sony, get the comparable Samsung.







This does not help my situation right now. for instance, the 1 lense being way darker only while trying to play Mirror's edge? how can i solve that now? and what model samsung in a 32"-40" will have the 1080p60?

Intel Core i7 930 (OC 4.1 @ 1.4v)- EVGA E760 Classified - 6G Corsair XMS3 DDR3 7-7-7-20 1800 - Corsair H70 w/dual Enermax Magma 12cm - EVGA GTX580 SC - Enermax Revoluion 1050w 85+ - Killer Bigfoot NPU - Creative SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty - Lian Li PC-A7110 Black

#3
Posted 04/20/2011 12:58 AM   
Samsung un40c7000. THey're going for $1062 on Warehousedeals, and with a 30 day full refund if you don't want to keep it, you don't even pay for shipping.
Even if you fix the lense problem, you'll still be stuck with bad image quality. But you can still play Mirror's Edge....sorta.
Samsung un40c7000. THey're going for $1062 on Warehousedeals, and with a 30 day full refund if you don't want to keep it, you don't even pay for shipping.

Even if you fix the lense problem, you'll still be stuck with bad image quality. But you can still play Mirror's Edge....sorta.

#4
Posted 04/20/2011 02:34 AM   
looks like that specific Samsung is a 2010 model, and samsung's website doesnt even list if it does 1080p60 @ 1920x1080. limited specs on this set. i'd have to return my sony glasses to as i doubt the sony glasses are compatible with samsung TVs. What do you mean by even if i fixed the lense problem? is the 3D gaming just ahead of its time?
looks like that specific Samsung is a 2010 model, and samsung's website doesnt even list if it does 1080p60 @ 1920x1080. limited specs on this set. i'd have to return my sony glasses to as i doubt the sony glasses are compatible with samsung TVs. What do you mean by even if i fixed the lense problem? is the 3D gaming just ahead of its time?

Intel Core i7 930 (OC 4.1 @ 1.4v)- EVGA E760 Classified - 6G Corsair XMS3 DDR3 7-7-7-20 1800 - Corsair H70 w/dual Enermax Magma 12cm - EVGA GTX580 SC - Enermax Revoluion 1050w 85+ - Killer Bigfoot NPU - Creative SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty - Lian Li PC-A7110 Black

#5
Posted 04/20/2011 11:17 PM   
[quote name='Xann' date='20 April 2011 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1303341474' post='1228115']
looks like that specific Samsung is a 2010 model, and samsung's website doesnt even list if it does 1080p60 @ 1920x1080.[/quote]
Like all samsungs 2010 models, it does 1920x1080 per frame, 60 fps , aka 'checkerboard'.
[quote]What do you mean by even if i fixed the lense problem?[/quote]
I mean that fixing the lense problem doesn't fix the much bigger problem, being forced to 3D game at non-native resolution. To get an idea of just how bad this looks, change your desktop from native rez (presumably that's 1920x1080) to 1280x720. It's even worse than that because the scaling algorithms in 3D games can't work as well as 2D so you have bad aliasing as well as scaling errors.
[quote] is the 3D gaming just ahead of its time?[/quote]
not at all. The issue is native rez vs scaled. Both side by side (SBS) mode and checkerboard allow full rez per frame, 60 frames per second in 3D, and on a Samsung, CB, frame sequential, sbs all look better than 1920x1080 framepacking.

You have three options:
1. Keep your sony, use Nvidia 3D drivers, and be forever doomed to ugly 720P non-native 3D gaming
2. Use iZ3D and/or TriDef 3D drivers and hope they work in SBS mode on your Sony.
3. Ditch your Sony for a Samsung and use nvidia 3D drivers.
[quote name='Xann' date='20 April 2011 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1303341474' post='1228115']

looks like that specific Samsung is a 2010 model, and samsung's website doesnt even list if it does 1080p60 @ 1920x1080.

Like all samsungs 2010 models, it does 1920x1080 per frame, 60 fps , aka 'checkerboard'.

What do you mean by even if i fixed the lense problem?


I mean that fixing the lense problem doesn't fix the much bigger problem, being forced to 3D game at non-native resolution. To get an idea of just how bad this looks, change your desktop from native rez (presumably that's 1920x1080) to 1280x720. It's even worse than that because the scaling algorithms in 3D games can't work as well as 2D so you have bad aliasing as well as scaling errors.

is the 3D gaming just ahead of its time?


not at all. The issue is native rez vs scaled. Both side by side (SBS) mode and checkerboard allow full rez per frame, 60 frames per second in 3D, and on a Samsung, CB, frame sequential, sbs all look better than 1920x1080 framepacking.



You have three options:

1. Keep your sony, use Nvidia 3D drivers, and be forever doomed to ugly 720P non-native 3D gaming

2. Use iZ3D and/or TriDef 3D drivers and hope they work in SBS mode on your Sony.

3. Ditch your Sony for a Samsung and use nvidia 3D drivers.

#6
Posted 04/22/2011 05:46 PM   
Heya, they reviewed your EX720 on FlatpanelsHD, it got a pretty favorable review.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1303374989

They gave their settings they had after the calibration, if you like the original look. Its amount of crosstalk was almost as low as the Toshiba WX800/WL768, which he stated was the lowest he'd seen from an lcd display. However, after reading the 15 or so pages of the WL768 owner's thread on AVS forum, im not sure it does, because a ton of people returned it because of the crosstalk. A few of them said it got worse with time and/or after updates to the firmware. In any case, looks like you've got cutting edge LCD tech on your desk. /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />

Oops, i just realized you have a 32ex720, not a 46". I don't know if that still applies, you'd have to read other reviews I guess.
Heya, they reviewed your EX720 on FlatpanelsHD, it got a pretty favorable review.



http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1303374989



They gave their settings they had after the calibration, if you like the original look. Its amount of crosstalk was almost as low as the Toshiba WX800/WL768, which he stated was the lowest he'd seen from an lcd display. However, after reading the 15 or so pages of the WL768 owner's thread on AVS forum, im not sure it does, because a ton of people returned it because of the crosstalk. A few of them said it got worse with time and/or after updates to the firmware. In any case, looks like you've got cutting edge LCD tech on your desk. /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />



Oops, i just realized you have a 32ex720, not a 46". I don't know if that still applies, you'd have to read other reviews I guess.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#7
Posted 04/23/2011 09:21 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='22 April 2011 - 10:46 AM' timestamp='1303494389' post='1228948']
1. Keep your sony, use Nvidia 3D drivers, and be forever doomed to ugly 720P non-native 3D gaming
[/quote]

Forever doomed!?!... /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />

I don't know, because i've switched back and forth between 720 and 1080 and the difference wasn't nearly as big as i assumed it would be, yet i hope im wrong in the future...

Take a look at these screenshots at 720, do they really look much worse than checkerboard? Keep in mind i use the oboard TV controls to increase the color saturation up 40%, among other things to get it to look better, which won't show up in the screenshots.

[URL]http://www.mediafire.com/?uzyynnngqqqzu[/URL]
[quote name='roller11' date='22 April 2011 - 10:46 AM' timestamp='1303494389' post='1228948']

1. Keep your sony, use Nvidia 3D drivers, and be forever doomed to ugly 720P non-native 3D gaming





Forever doomed!?!... /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />



I don't know, because i've switched back and forth between 720 and 1080 and the difference wasn't nearly as big as i assumed it would be, yet i hope im wrong in the future...



Take a look at these screenshots at 720, do they really look much worse than checkerboard? Keep in mind i use the oboard TV controls to increase the color saturation up 40%, among other things to get it to look better, which won't show up in the screenshots.



http://www.mediafire.com/?uzyynnngqqqzu

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#8
Posted 04/23/2011 09:51 PM   
CCorrect, 720 is not that much better than checkerboard, it is not full resolution 3d, it is half rez. It is also four years old. Dlp set the standard for checkerboard 3d. And has yet to be surpassed by any hdmi 1.4 tv.

i have both 720 projector and checkerboard, and i prefer the 720. I get much higher frame rate and much higher image quality and a 130" screen.

We already told the op that checkerboard would be best for gaming, but he went out and bough the Sony. Im not sure why he asked for advise and bought without listening. Hdmi 1.4 tvs do not work without issues. They have cross talk. The run scaled 720. Even the overpriced sammy with checkerboard has lots of crosstalk. Sure it has a nice 2d plasma image, but why anyone would spend all that $ to see shadows everywhere forcing one to lower 3D DEPTH is beyond me. Especially when there is a cheaper and better performing option available.

The issue is not the 3d vision, its new display tech that is being marketed as 3d ready, when in reality it performs much worse than legacy 3d displaysu are being tricked by corporations. But what do i know, I've only had four different displays.
CCorrect, 720 is not that much better than checkerboard, it is not full resolution 3d, it is half rez. It is also four years old. Dlp set the standard for checkerboard 3d. And has yet to be surpassed by any hdmi 1.4 tv.



i have both 720 projector and checkerboard, and i prefer the 720. I get much higher frame rate and much higher image quality and a 130" screen.



We already told the op that checkerboard would be best for gaming, but he went out and bough the Sony. Im not sure why he asked for advise and bought without listening. Hdmi 1.4 tvs do not work without issues. They have cross talk. The run scaled 720. Even the overpriced sammy with checkerboard has lots of crosstalk. Sure it has a nice 2d plasma image, but why anyone would spend all that $ to see shadows everywhere forcing one to lower 3D DEPTH is beyond me. Especially when there is a cheaper and better performing option available.



The issue is not the 3d vision, its new display tech that is being marketed as 3d ready, when in reality it performs much worse than legacy 3d displaysu are being tricked by corporations. But what do i know, I've only had four different displays.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#9
Posted 04/24/2011 03:34 PM   
The sammy is a lot of money for a screen that ghosts bad. But u might not mind visual anomalies everywhere.Forcing u toha to reduce 3d depth. u still have to wait for official checkerboard support or hack it with the help of the forums.

Keep this in mind. Led, lcd and plasma tech will have crosstalk. Dlp will not. I would see the display in person before u buy. U might want to save your $ for a year or so until displays get better. Or perhaps a monitor will work for u. Maybe someday led and plasma will catch up too dlps 3d performance. I sure hope so. I've been waiting for years to upgrade.
The sammy is a lot of money for a screen that ghosts bad. But u might not mind visual anomalies everywhere.Forcing u toha to reduce 3d depth. u still have to wait for official checkerboard support or hack it with the help of the forums.



Keep this in mind. Led, lcd and plasma tech will have crosstalk. Dlp will not. I would see the display in person before u buy. U might want to save your $ for a year or so until displays get better. Or perhaps a monitor will work for u. Maybe someday led and plasma will catch up too dlps 3d performance. I sure hope so. I've been waiting for years to upgrade.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#10
Posted 04/24/2011 03:48 PM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='23 April 2011 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1303595479' post='1229402']

Take a look at these screenshots at 720, do they really look much worse than checkerboard? Keep in mind i use the oboard TV controls to increase the color saturation up 40%, among other things to get it to look better, which won't show up in the screenshots.

[URL]http://www.mediafire.com/?uzyynnngqqqzu[/URL]
[/quote]
The only way I can look at these is by setting my mode to checkerboard, so I'm not sure what these screenies are exactly. Can you give details as to exactly what these are, what 3D mode you were in, how you captured them? Also, what display do you have, Samsung HDTV? Something else?
[quote name='Libertine' date='23 April 2011 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1303595479' post='1229402']



Take a look at these screenshots at 720, do they really look much worse than checkerboard? Keep in mind i use the oboard TV controls to increase the color saturation up 40%, among other things to get it to look better, which won't show up in the screenshots.



http://www.mediafire.com/?uzyynnngqqqzu



The only way I can look at these is by setting my mode to checkerboard, so I'm not sure what these screenies are exactly. Can you give details as to exactly what these are, what 3D mode you were in, how you captured them? Also, what display do you have, Samsung HDTV? Something else?

#11
Posted 04/24/2011 04:46 PM   
[quote]The issue is not the 3d vision, its new display tech[/quote]

It's because they were all too focused on slim and low power, & now with the emergence of new backlight technologies RP & front projection is coming back [u]on top[/u].
The issue is not the 3d vision, its new display tech




It's because they were all too focused on slim and low power, & now with the emergence of new backlight technologies RP & front projection is coming back on top.

#12
Posted 04/24/2011 06:27 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='24 April 2011 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1303663615' post='1229701']
The only way I can look at these is by setting my mode to checkerboard, so I'm not sure what these screenies are exactly. Can you give details as to exactly what these are, what 3D mode you were in, how you captured them? Also, what display do you have, Samsung HDTV? Something else?
[/quote]

They're just some bits of Metro 2033 in 3D with the first 3 being at "very high" settings and the others at just high I think. I was just in 720p @60hz on a Sony 2010 model 46" NX711, a mid-range model.
[quote name='roller11' date='24 April 2011 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1303663615' post='1229701']

The only way I can look at these is by setting my mode to checkerboard, so I'm not sure what these screenies are exactly. Can you give details as to exactly what these are, what 3D mode you were in, how you captured them? Also, what display do you have, Samsung HDTV? Something else?





They're just some bits of Metro 2033 in 3D with the first 3 being at "very high" settings and the others at just high I think. I was just in 720p @60hz on a Sony 2010 model 46" NX711, a mid-range model.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#13
Posted 04/24/2011 07:17 PM   
[quote name='DanielJoy' date='24 April 2011 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1303660102' post='1229673']
Keep this in mind. Led, lcd and plasma tech will have crosstalk. Dlp will not. I would see the display in person before u buy. U might want to save your $ for a year or so until displays get better. Or perhaps a monitor will work for u. Maybe someday led and plasma will catch up too dlps 3d performance. I sure hope so. I've been waiting for years to upgrade.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, i just saw a thread at AVS or highdef forum from a guy trying to solve ghosting on his DLP, i guess even those aren't all 100% immune apparently. Some good news is that research organizations everywhere are increasing the life spans of OLED's, and others are finding new ways to increase the brightness. As you probably know, OLED's have a response time of .02ms or lower.
[quote name='DanielJoy' date='24 April 2011 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1303660102' post='1229673']

Keep this in mind. Led, lcd and plasma tech will have crosstalk. Dlp will not. I would see the display in person before u buy. U might want to save your $ for a year or so until displays get better. Or perhaps a monitor will work for u. Maybe someday led and plasma will catch up too dlps 3d performance. I sure hope so. I've been waiting for years to upgrade.





Unfortunately, i just saw a thread at AVS or highdef forum from a guy trying to solve ghosting on his DLP, i guess even those aren't all 100% immune apparently. Some good news is that research organizations everywhere are increasing the life spans of OLED's, and others are finding new ways to increase the brightness. As you probably know, OLED's have a response time of .02ms or lower.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#14
Posted 04/24/2011 07:31 PM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='24 April 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1303672627' post='1229759']
They're just some bits of Metro 2033 in 3D with the first 3 being at "very high" settings and the others at just high I think. I was just in 720p @60hz on a Sony 2010 model 46" NX711, a mid-range model.
[/quote]
How did you capture them?
[quote name='Libertine' date='24 April 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1303672627' post='1229759']

They're just some bits of Metro 2033 in 3D with the first 3 being at "very high" settings and the others at just high I think. I was just in 720p @60hz on a Sony 2010 model 46" NX711, a mid-range model.



How did you capture them?

#15
Posted 04/24/2011 07:59 PM   
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