Is 3D gaming using Xbox360 theoretically possible on HDMI 1.4 TVs
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Seeing how PS3 is implementing 3D for gaming (and bluray) I'm curious if Xbox 360 could do the same.

I believe that it could, and here is my logic...

As we all heard PS3 is downscaling most existing games to 720p (or lower) @ 30 hz per eye due to hardware limitations.

[url="http://gizmodo.com/5522804/no-surprise-3d-takes-a-toll-on-ps3-resolution-and-framerates?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29"]http://gizmodo.com/5522804/no-surprise-3d-...l+%28Gizmodo%29[/url]

There may be a few DLC games that run in 1080p but most will only do 720p or lower

Most people say that 360 can't support the new 3D tech since it has HDMI 1.2 (unlike HDMI 1.3 in the PS3)..but since HDMI 1.2 can do a max data bandwith to support 1080p @ 60hz, I am thinking that it should be able to do the same support as ps3 (720p @ 30 X 2). So as long as games are running 720p @ 30 hz per eye (this is the most they could run anyways due to 360 harware) shouldn't they be able to run in stereoscopic 3d on the new HDMI 1.4 TVs?

Does my thinking here make sense or am I missing something?
Seeing how PS3 is implementing 3D for gaming (and bluray) I'm curious if Xbox 360 could do the same.



I believe that it could, and here is my logic...



As we all heard PS3 is downscaling most existing games to 720p (or lower) @ 30 hz per eye due to hardware limitations.



http://gizmodo.com/5522804/no-surprise-3d-...l+%28Gizmodo%29



There may be a few DLC games that run in 1080p but most will only do 720p or lower



Most people say that 360 can't support the new 3D tech since it has HDMI 1.2 (unlike HDMI 1.3 in the PS3)..but since HDMI 1.2 can do a max data bandwith to support 1080p @ 60hz, I am thinking that it should be able to do the same support as ps3 (720p @ 30 X 2). So as long as games are running 720p @ 30 hz per eye (this is the most they could run anyways due to 360 harware) shouldn't they be able to run in stereoscopic 3d on the new HDMI 1.4 TVs?



Does my thinking here make sense or am I missing something?

#1
Posted 04/26/2010 02:40 PM   
Well I can do 3D gaming over a VGA port on my PC so short answer I would say is yes it would work.
Well I can do 3D gaming over a VGA port on my PC so short answer I would say is yes it would work.

#2
Posted 04/26/2010 02:47 PM   
Remember 3d is not new its been around for years.

HDMI 1.4 is almost the same as 1.3. Both transmit the same amount of maximum data 15Gbs. Hdmi 1.3 can support 1080p to both eyes. HDMI 1.4 has extra perks like audio can be sent and received it also supports ethernet etc...

Sony originally said 3D would be 1.3 but as soon as they seen $$$$$ that could be made by saying 1.4 only.


xbox 360 has a powerfullish GPU infact the GPU is more advanced than the ps3 GPU but the PS3 has the more powerfull processor CELL but both have enough power to give you good 3d game playback.
Remember 3d is not new its been around for years.



HDMI 1.4 is almost the same as 1.3. Both transmit the same amount of maximum data 15Gbs. Hdmi 1.3 can support 1080p to both eyes. HDMI 1.4 has extra perks like audio can be sent and received it also supports ethernet etc...



Sony originally said 3D would be 1.3 but as soon as they seen $$$$$ that could be made by saying 1.4 only.





xbox 360 has a powerfullish GPU infact the GPU is more advanced than the ps3 GPU but the PS3 has the more powerfull processor CELL but both have enough power to give you good 3d game playback.

#3
Posted 04/26/2010 03:08 PM   
Xbox 360 can output compliant streams for these 3DTVs however i don't think it will ever support the hdmi1.4 3D auto-detect system. The user need to manually switch 3D on and select the corresponding type of output in the TV menu.
You should already be able to play both Avatar the game and Invincible tiger by using side by side 3D mode in the games 3D option menus.
Xbox 360 can output compliant streams for these 3DTVs however i don't think it will ever support the hdmi1.4 3D auto-detect system. The user need to manually switch 3D on and select the corresponding type of output in the TV menu.

You should already be able to play both Avatar the game and Invincible tiger by using side by side 3D mode in the games 3D option menus.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#4
Posted 04/26/2010 03:39 PM   
Yep, there are already two games as BlackSharkfr mentioned that do 3D fine on the 360 (and I've heard Avatar looks and runs great - even better than the PS3 version, but I don't remember where I read that).
Yep, there are already two games as BlackSharkfr mentioned that do 3D fine on the 360 (and I've heard Avatar looks and runs great - even better than the PS3 version, but I don't remember where I read that).

#5
Posted 04/26/2010 04:22 PM   
I read recently Xbox with do 3D, i think its a few months away, Xbox only has a dvd-rom drive, so it cant be 1080p maybe upscale to 1080i
I read recently Xbox with do 3D, i think its a few months away, Xbox only has a dvd-rom drive, so it cant be 1080p maybe upscale to 1080i

#6
Posted 04/26/2010 05:26 PM   
[quote name='Jaz808' post='1045511' date='Apr 26 2010, 06:26 PM']I read recently Xbox with do 3D, i think its a few months away, Xbox only has a dvd-rom drive, so it cant be 1080p maybe upscale to 1080i[/quote]


why do people assume because it has a dvd rom it cant do 1080p ? A pc uses dvd-rom for games and it can do 1080p :)

Its the same with fanboys on the consoles they auto think ohh because it cant do 50 gig on a dvdrom it wont get that game... blu-ray games use uncompressed data dvd rom uses compressed data, when a game uses more than the allocated dvd space it can go onto another disc .. yes its a little pain to change but a little exercise never hurt anyone :)
[quote name='Jaz808' post='1045511' date='Apr 26 2010, 06:26 PM']I read recently Xbox with do 3D, i think its a few months away, Xbox only has a dvd-rom drive, so it cant be 1080p maybe upscale to 1080i





why do people assume because it has a dvd rom it cant do 1080p ? A pc uses dvd-rom for games and it can do 1080p :)



Its the same with fanboys on the consoles they auto think ohh because it cant do 50 gig on a dvdrom it wont get that game... blu-ray games use uncompressed data dvd rom uses compressed data, when a game uses more than the allocated dvd space it can go onto another disc .. yes its a little pain to change but a little exercise never hurt anyone :)

#7
Posted 04/26/2010 05:52 PM   
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1045437' date='Apr 26 2010, 11:39 AM']Xbox 360 can output compliant streams for these 3DTVs however i don't think it will ever support the hdmi1.4 3D auto-detect system. The user need to manually switch 3D on and select the corresponding type of output in the TV menu.
You should already be able to play both Avatar the game and Invincible tiger by[b] using side by side 3D mode in the games 3D option menus[/b].[/quote]
Really? Side by side on xbox360 will work on the new HDMI 1.4 TVs?

I mean I knew that 360 version of Avatar can play on my checkerboard TV and using some RealD polarized displays but are you saying that Avatar on 360 would work on an HDMI 1.4 TV by choosing side by side on both the TV and console game options?
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1045437' date='Apr 26 2010, 11:39 AM']Xbox 360 can output compliant streams for these 3DTVs however i don't think it will ever support the hdmi1.4 3D auto-detect system. The user need to manually switch 3D on and select the corresponding type of output in the TV menu.

You should already be able to play both Avatar the game and Invincible tiger by using side by side 3D mode in the games 3D option menus.

Really? Side by side on xbox360 will work on the new HDMI 1.4 TVs?



I mean I knew that 360 version of Avatar can play on my checkerboard TV and using some RealD polarized displays but are you saying that Avatar on 360 would work on an HDMI 1.4 TV by choosing side by side on both the TV and console game options?

#8
Posted 04/26/2010 06:31 PM   
[quote name='disolitude' post='1045554' date='Apr 26 2010, 08:31 PM']Really? Side by side on xbox360 will work on the new HDMI 1.4 TVs?

I mean I knew that 360 version of Avatar can play on my checkerboard TV and using some RealD polarized displays but are you saying that Avatar on 360 would work on an HDMI 1.4 TV by choosing side by side on both the TV and console game options?[/quote]
Yes, That is the whole goal of using standard inputs and outputs. No matter what source you have, technology the TV uses, if both communicate with the same format they'll just work.
Hdmi 1.4 didn't invent much, all it did was take stuff that existed previously and made some nice protocols to make the TV and the source automatically detect the best transmission type and activate the 3D without requiring the user to browse through dozens of menus.
[quote name='disolitude' post='1045554' date='Apr 26 2010, 08:31 PM']Really? Side by side on xbox360 will work on the new HDMI 1.4 TVs?



I mean I knew that 360 version of Avatar can play on my checkerboard TV and using some RealD polarized displays but are you saying that Avatar on 360 would work on an HDMI 1.4 TV by choosing side by side on both the TV and console game options?

Yes, That is the whole goal of using standard inputs and outputs. No matter what source you have, technology the TV uses, if both communicate with the same format they'll just work.

Hdmi 1.4 didn't invent much, all it did was take stuff that existed previously and made some nice protocols to make the TV and the source automatically detect the best transmission type and activate the 3D without requiring the user to browse through dozens of menus.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#9
Posted 04/26/2010 06:57 PM   
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1045572' date='Apr 26 2010, 02:57 PM']Yes, That is the whole goal of using standard inputs and outputs. No matter what source you have, technology the TV uses, if both communicate with the same format they'll just work.
Hdmi 1.4 didn't invent much, all it did was take stuff that existed previously and made some nice protocols to make the TV and the source automatically detect the best transmission type and activate the 3D without requiring the user to browse through dozens of menus.[/quote]
Well damn...the more you know. :)
Thanks for the info...

Now that I understand this better I guess my final question is... techincally can 360 do sequential 120hz stereoscopic 3D if it runs games at 720p @ 30 hz?
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1045572' date='Apr 26 2010, 02:57 PM']Yes, That is the whole goal of using standard inputs and outputs. No matter what source you have, technology the TV uses, if both communicate with the same format they'll just work.

Hdmi 1.4 didn't invent much, all it did was take stuff that existed previously and made some nice protocols to make the TV and the source automatically detect the best transmission type and activate the 3D without requiring the user to browse through dozens of menus.

Well damn...the more you know. :)

Thanks for the info...



Now that I understand this better I guess my final question is... techincally can 360 do sequential 120hz stereoscopic 3D if it runs games at 720p @ 30 hz?

#10
Posted 04/26/2010 07:15 PM   
X360 cannot do 120Hz frame sequential.
Transforming the side by side format @30Hz to frame sequential @120Hz is performed inside the TV.
X360 cannot do 120Hz frame sequential.

Transforming the side by side format @30Hz to frame sequential @120Hz is performed inside the TV.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#11
Posted 04/26/2010 09:06 PM   
Follow up question to all of this. I have an original Xbox 360 with only component HD out (no HDMI) and a Samsung 3D plasma. My PS3 does 3D with no issues — both movies and games toggle the 3D on automatically. From what I've been reading, even though the 360 firmware has been updated to output 1080p via component, you still need HDMI to do 3D. Not sure why, that's just what I've read. So I'm wondering, if I buy one of those expensive component HD to HDMI converters (Mad Catz makes one) will I be able to get the 3D signal to work? I kinda want to see what Crysis 2 looks like in 3D. Killzone 3 in 3D was fun, but Crysis is like the Avatar of video games.
Follow up question to all of this. I have an original Xbox 360 with only component HD out (no HDMI) and a Samsung 3D plasma. My PS3 does 3D with no issues — both movies and games toggle the 3D on automatically. From what I've been reading, even though the 360 firmware has been updated to output 1080p via component, you still need HDMI to do 3D. Not sure why, that's just what I've read. So I'm wondering, if I buy one of those expensive component HD to HDMI converters (Mad Catz makes one) will I be able to get the 3D signal to work? I kinda want to see what Crysis 2 looks like in 3D. Killzone 3 in 3D was fun, but Crysis is like the Avatar of video games.

#12
Posted 04/02/2011 08:53 PM   
Errr, so this has nothing to do with NVIDIA at all?
Errr, so this has nothing to do with NVIDIA at all?

#13
Posted 04/02/2011 10:46 PM   
[quote name='bullripper' date='26 April 2010 - 09:47 AM' timestamp='1272293225' post='1045414']
Well I can do 3D gaming over a VGA port on my PC so short answer I would say is yes it would work.
[/quote]

^This

VGA port + appropriate middleware + 60hz + shutters = 3D

The 360 is missing the shutters and its missing the middleware. Your average CRT monitor can do the rest.
[quote name='bullripper' date='26 April 2010 - 09:47 AM' timestamp='1272293225' post='1045414']

Well I can do 3D gaming over a VGA port on my PC so short answer I would say is yes it would work.





^This



VGA port + appropriate middleware + 60hz + shutters = 3D



The 360 is missing the shutters and its missing the middleware. Your average CRT monitor can do the rest.

AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision

#14
Posted 04/02/2011 10:58 PM   
Well side-by-side mode is actually part of the mandatory HDMI 1.4 3D spec. So in that sense, the Xbox 360 already supports HDMI 1.4 (with Avatar, Invincible Tiger). What is not supported is HDMI 1.4 frame-packing. I am not sure why the PS3 can support this and not the Xbox360, but surely there is some limitation there (besides the fact that a large percentage of Xbox systems don't have an HDMI port). And if it were possible you would think they'd have done it.

Anyway, 1080P side-by-side should probably look comparable to 720P frame-packed. At least from a bandwidth point of view they are similar. And these consoles are weak anyway. They can barely even run 720P at 30Hz in 3D, so you end with with SD resolutions being upscaled. So its almost a moot point.
Well side-by-side mode is actually part of the mandatory HDMI 1.4 3D spec. So in that sense, the Xbox 360 already supports HDMI 1.4 (with Avatar, Invincible Tiger). What is not supported is HDMI 1.4 frame-packing. I am not sure why the PS3 can support this and not the Xbox360, but surely there is some limitation there (besides the fact that a large percentage of Xbox systems don't have an HDMI port). And if it were possible you would think they'd have done it.



Anyway, 1080P side-by-side should probably look comparable to 720P frame-packed. At least from a bandwidth point of view they are similar. And these consoles are weak anyway. They can barely even run 720P at 30Hz in 3D, so you end with with SD resolutions being upscaled. So its almost a moot point.
#15
Posted 04/03/2011 02:38 PM   
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