zynerd, I have a W1070, and am pretty sensitive to input lag - yet I can't detect any on my projector. Not to say it's not present at all, but it's certainly not significant.
zynerd, I have a W1070, and am pretty sensitive to input lag - yet I can't detect any on my projector. Not to say it's not present at all, but it's certainly not significant.
My Acer H5360BD DLP projector is rated a 33ms pixel response, compared to a 2ms monitor that number doesn't compare well, but when I used it for gaming it was great and I had zero problems.
My Acer H5360BD DLP projector is rated a 33ms pixel response, compared to a 2ms monitor that number doesn't compare well, but when I used it for gaming it was great and I had zero problems.
[quote="Burnered"]Ok one more question to the general public that have seen both....what has impressed you more and why...great 3d monitor with g-sync or huge projector with 3d in regards to the fact I still do plenty of 2d gaming just love the 3d as much as possible - I even play league of legends in 3d :) so any thoughts suggestions much appreciated.....
Second point im looking at the Acer XB270H or possibly rog swift for 27in 3d monitor or .... projector ViewSonic PJD7820HD or BenQ W1070
I also use my monitor for watching tv 90% of time don't ask why....so a projector would be pretty sweet for that regards....[/quote]
I loved gaming on my projector (Acer H5360BD) mostly because of the size and depth of the 3D image being great. A nice side effect is that you basically end up with a cinema in your room if you add some 5.1 speakers and an AV amp. I was even perfectly fine with 720p gaming resolution in 3D.
I can't use the projector for gaming now because I've moved in with my partner and our living room is a touch too small (its a long throw lens on the projector) and isn't quite arranged the right way for it. It's a real shame because the projector is fantastic for games and films, but I've now replaced it with a 65" Samsung 4k active 3D LCD instead.
If you can keep your room dark enough and have the space, projector gaming is awesome.
Comparing it to monitor gaming...I sit pretty close to my monitors, so the comparable size of the image is fairly close, plus I get to see all the fine detail, I don't have to black the room out in sunlight, there isn't as much heat generated, I don't have miles of HDMI cables to track round the room and I don't have to worry about the bulb life of the projector every time I switch it on, and I don't need a screen or large clear wall to project onto.
You will notice most of the monitor pro's are offset against the installation and running costs of the projector, rather than monitor gaming actually being functionally "better", so if you have no concerns about projector bulb placement, you can easily control ambient light and heat, cable management, and a wall or screen projection surface, and mounting the projector in the right location, its all good - I can thoroughly recommend it 100%.
Burnered said:Ok one more question to the general public that have seen both....what has impressed you more and why...great 3d monitor with g-sync or huge projector with 3d in regards to the fact I still do plenty of 2d gaming just love the 3d as much as possible - I even play league of legends in 3d :) so any thoughts suggestions much appreciated.....
Second point im looking at the Acer XB270H or possibly rog swift for 27in 3d monitor or .... projector ViewSonic PJD7820HD or BenQ W1070
I also use my monitor for watching tv 90% of time don't ask why....so a projector would be pretty sweet for that regards....
I loved gaming on my projector (Acer H5360BD) mostly because of the size and depth of the 3D image being great. A nice side effect is that you basically end up with a cinema in your room if you add some 5.1 speakers and an AV amp. I was even perfectly fine with 720p gaming resolution in 3D.
I can't use the projector for gaming now because I've moved in with my partner and our living room is a touch too small (its a long throw lens on the projector) and isn't quite arranged the right way for it. It's a real shame because the projector is fantastic for games and films, but I've now replaced it with a 65" Samsung 4k active 3D LCD instead.
If you can keep your room dark enough and have the space, projector gaming is awesome.
Comparing it to monitor gaming...I sit pretty close to my monitors, so the comparable size of the image is fairly close, plus I get to see all the fine detail, I don't have to black the room out in sunlight, there isn't as much heat generated, I don't have miles of HDMI cables to track round the room and I don't have to worry about the bulb life of the projector every time I switch it on, and I don't need a screen or large clear wall to project onto.
You will notice most of the monitor pro's are offset against the installation and running costs of the projector, rather than monitor gaming actually being functionally "better", so if you have no concerns about projector bulb placement, you can easily control ambient light and heat, cable management, and a wall or screen projection surface, and mounting the projector in the right location, its all good - I can thoroughly recommend it 100%.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]zynerd, I have a W1070, and am pretty sensitive to input lag - yet I can't detect any on my projector. Not to say it's not present at all, but it's certainly not significant.[/quote]
Nor should you really be bothered by the input lag. That's exactly what I was implying. W1070 has very little input lag compared to many other projectors. Unless you're playing a fast-paced FPS game or you're serious about fighting games, chances are you're probably just fine with W1070's input lag.
Once input lag starts to creep up into the 3-4 frame territory, then it starts to be _very_ noticeable and jarring even in single player games.
Pirateguybrush said:zynerd, I have a W1070, and am pretty sensitive to input lag - yet I can't detect any on my projector. Not to say it's not present at all, but it's certainly not significant.
Nor should you really be bothered by the input lag. That's exactly what I was implying. W1070 has very little input lag compared to many other projectors. Unless you're playing a fast-paced FPS game or you're serious about fighting games, chances are you're probably just fine with W1070's input lag.
Once input lag starts to creep up into the 3-4 frame territory, then it starts to be _very_ noticeable and jarring even in single player games.
As you probably know by now, I'm pretty skeptical of all claims I read on the Internet, there is just so much misinformation that I reject most things out of hand until I can get some info that seems solid and science based. What I tell my elderly father is "If it came from the Internet, it's a lie. Until you get better proof." (No offense meant to anyone here, this forum tends to be much higher quality than normal net.)
Stuff like: [url]http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803[/url]
That lag database is immediately suspect because IPS monitors are at the top of the list with 9ms numbers. That seems- unlikely. But maybe it's valid.
Agreed that if you are getting multiple frames queued up you are going to start feeling lag. I just don't think that has anything to do with projectors per se.
I can say that for older/cheaper projectors like the ViewSonic PJD-6210 and the Acer H5360 that there is no lag that I can tell using Rocksmith.
Rocksmith is a guitar game where you play along with the music, so if anything this is even more sensitive than fighting games, because humans can easily tell when the music is off. I run Rocksmith in 3D too, and while that makes seeing the fretboard harder, it makes for a killer experience, and no detectable lag there as well.
These projectors are simple though, no fancy post processing junk that I can care less about, and I run them at native resolution because their built-in scalers are crap (and probably add lag).
If you happen across anyone testing DLP projectors with Leo's Lag Tester, or especially 3D being tested, I'd be really curious.
As you probably know by now, I'm pretty skeptical of all claims I read on the Internet, there is just so much misinformation that I reject most things out of hand until I can get some info that seems solid and science based. What I tell my elderly father is "If it came from the Internet, it's a lie. Until you get better proof." (No offense meant to anyone here, this forum tends to be much higher quality than normal net.)
That lag database is immediately suspect because IPS monitors are at the top of the list with 9ms numbers. That seems- unlikely. But maybe it's valid.
Agreed that if you are getting multiple frames queued up you are going to start feeling lag. I just don't think that has anything to do with projectors per se.
I can say that for older/cheaper projectors like the ViewSonic PJD-6210 and the Acer H5360 that there is no lag that I can tell using Rocksmith.
Rocksmith is a guitar game where you play along with the music, so if anything this is even more sensitive than fighting games, because humans can easily tell when the music is off. I run Rocksmith in 3D too, and while that makes seeing the fretboard harder, it makes for a killer experience, and no detectable lag there as well.
These projectors are simple though, no fancy post processing junk that I can care less about, and I run them at native resolution because their built-in scalers are crap (and probably add lag).
If you happen across anyone testing DLP projectors with Leo's Lag Tester, or especially 3D being tested, I'd be really curious.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
And that's a healthy attitude to have. Like I said, that list came up through googling _and_ they claim to be using Leo Bodnar's lag tester to reach these conclusions. The displays that I know of showed the correct data. Seemed pretty valid at a glance. I do agree that the IPS panels on top seem suspect, as they are (or used to be?) clearly slower than TN panels, but I have not been following their progress at all for some years. I don't have an agenda here, so I'm not going to investigate it any further.
What I _do_ know is how games feel like with some input lag. Several projectors I've tried out for fun in the past at various events have been very bad for gaming, exactly because of the input lag. None of them were DLP. None of them had features enabled that would improve image quality and at the same time introduce input lag. Not to even mention various HDTVs..
I can't help but feel the whole conversation has veered from the original point that was made: the DLP projectors in question have tolerable input lag. W1070 sits at roughly 33.x milliseconds. Whether that was tested properly or not, I do not know, but the same result can be found in a few reviews right away through googling -- it stands to reason it's probably correct. The results only differ in fractions of milliseconds. And this is with Leo Bodnar's test.
With that said, there's a significant added delay compared to monitors. It's not something you'd use for competitive gaming when reaction times matter. But it's still perfectly fine for most types of gaming.
And that's a healthy attitude to have. Like I said, that list came up through googling _and_ they claim to be using Leo Bodnar's lag tester to reach these conclusions. The displays that I know of showed the correct data. Seemed pretty valid at a glance. I do agree that the IPS panels on top seem suspect, as they are (or used to be?) clearly slower than TN panels, but I have not been following their progress at all for some years. I don't have an agenda here, so I'm not going to investigate it any further.
What I _do_ know is how games feel like with some input lag. Several projectors I've tried out for fun in the past at various events have been very bad for gaming, exactly because of the input lag. None of them were DLP. None of them had features enabled that would improve image quality and at the same time introduce input lag. Not to even mention various HDTVs..
I can't help but feel the whole conversation has veered from the original point that was made: the DLP projectors in question have tolerable input lag. W1070 sits at roughly 33.x milliseconds. Whether that was tested properly or not, I do not know, but the same result can be found in a few reviews right away through googling -- it stands to reason it's probably correct. The results only differ in fractions of milliseconds. And this is with Leo Bodnar's test.
With that said, there's a significant added delay compared to monitors. It's not something you'd use for competitive gaming when reaction times matter. But it's still perfectly fine for most types of gaming.
Agreed. The tests for W1070 in particular seem to be accurate. I doubt it's a coincidence that 33ms is [i]exactly [/i]2 frames at 60 Hz. 2/60=33.33333ms
That suggests some sort of internal frame buffer flipping for the projector itself, which seems like a weird thing to add, but hey, these are built for 3D Movies not gaming.
Still, keep in mind that this test is fundamentally flawed from our perspective, because it tests the projector at 1080p, and we are going to run at 720p to get 120Hz from the EDID override. Presumably running at 120Hz would help lag. 2/120? 17ms?
Most of what you read from cyclops reviews don't really apply to us, this is another example. Just recommending that people not buy anything based on 2D reviews.
Agreed. The tests for W1070 in particular seem to be accurate. I doubt it's a coincidence that 33ms is exactly 2 frames at 60 Hz. 2/60=33.33333ms
That suggests some sort of internal frame buffer flipping for the projector itself, which seems like a weird thing to add, but hey, these are built for 3D Movies not gaming.
Still, keep in mind that this test is fundamentally flawed from our perspective, because it tests the projector at 1080p, and we are going to run at 720p to get 120Hz from the EDID override. Presumably running at 120Hz would help lag. 2/120? 17ms?
Most of what you read from cyclops reviews don't really apply to us, this is another example. Just recommending that people not buy anything based on 2D reviews.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
On Blurbuster's, Mark Rejhon uses a modified mouse to check lag on some G-Sync monitors.
He simply compares the in-line led light to the muzzle flash in-game
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/
i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide
Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2
I loved gaming on my projector (Acer H5360BD) mostly because of the size and depth of the 3D image being great. A nice side effect is that you basically end up with a cinema in your room if you add some 5.1 speakers and an AV amp. I was even perfectly fine with 720p gaming resolution in 3D.
I can't use the projector for gaming now because I've moved in with my partner and our living room is a touch too small (its a long throw lens on the projector) and isn't quite arranged the right way for it. It's a real shame because the projector is fantastic for games and films, but I've now replaced it with a 65" Samsung 4k active 3D LCD instead.
If you can keep your room dark enough and have the space, projector gaming is awesome.
Comparing it to monitor gaming...I sit pretty close to my monitors, so the comparable size of the image is fairly close, plus I get to see all the fine detail, I don't have to black the room out in sunlight, there isn't as much heat generated, I don't have miles of HDMI cables to track round the room and I don't have to worry about the bulb life of the projector every time I switch it on, and I don't need a screen or large clear wall to project onto.
You will notice most of the monitor pro's are offset against the installation and running costs of the projector, rather than monitor gaming actually being functionally "better", so if you have no concerns about projector bulb placement, you can easily control ambient light and heat, cable management, and a wall or screen projection surface, and mounting the projector in the right location, its all good - I can thoroughly recommend it 100%.
i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide
Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2
Nor should you really be bothered by the input lag. That's exactly what I was implying. W1070 has very little input lag compared to many other projectors. Unless you're playing a fast-paced FPS game or you're serious about fighting games, chances are you're probably just fine with W1070's input lag.
Once input lag starts to creep up into the 3-4 frame territory, then it starts to be _very_ noticeable and jarring even in single player games.
Stuff like: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803
That lag database is immediately suspect because IPS monitors are at the top of the list with 9ms numbers. That seems- unlikely. But maybe it's valid.
Agreed that if you are getting multiple frames queued up you are going to start feeling lag. I just don't think that has anything to do with projectors per se.
I can say that for older/cheaper projectors like the ViewSonic PJD-6210 and the Acer H5360 that there is no lag that I can tell using Rocksmith.
Rocksmith is a guitar game where you play along with the music, so if anything this is even more sensitive than fighting games, because humans can easily tell when the music is off. I run Rocksmith in 3D too, and while that makes seeing the fretboard harder, it makes for a killer experience, and no detectable lag there as well.
These projectors are simple though, no fancy post processing junk that I can care less about, and I run them at native resolution because their built-in scalers are crap (and probably add lag).
If you happen across anyone testing DLP projectors with Leo's Lag Tester, or especially 3D being tested, I'd be really curious.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
What I _do_ know is how games feel like with some input lag. Several projectors I've tried out for fun in the past at various events have been very bad for gaming, exactly because of the input lag. None of them were DLP. None of them had features enabled that would improve image quality and at the same time introduce input lag. Not to even mention various HDTVs..
I can't help but feel the whole conversation has veered from the original point that was made: the DLP projectors in question have tolerable input lag. W1070 sits at roughly 33.x milliseconds. Whether that was tested properly or not, I do not know, but the same result can be found in a few reviews right away through googling -- it stands to reason it's probably correct. The results only differ in fractions of milliseconds. And this is with Leo Bodnar's test.
With that said, there's a significant added delay compared to monitors. It's not something you'd use for competitive gaming when reaction times matter. But it's still perfectly fine for most types of gaming.
That suggests some sort of internal frame buffer flipping for the projector itself, which seems like a weird thing to add, but hey, these are built for 3D Movies not gaming.
Still, keep in mind that this test is fundamentally flawed from our perspective, because it tests the projector at 1080p, and we are going to run at 720p to get 120Hz from the EDID override. Presumably running at 120Hz would help lag. 2/120? 17ms?
Most of what you read from cyclops reviews don't really apply to us, this is another example. Just recommending that people not buy anything based on 2D reviews.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
He simply compares the in-line led light to the muzzle flash in-game
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/