Enabling 3d Causes 70-85% FPS drop in certain games?
  2 / 6    
Correct me if I'm wrong but an average of all cores won't tell you if the CPU is bottlenecking, as it only needs one thread not being processed quickly enough to create a bottleneck.
Correct me if I'm wrong but an average of all cores won't tell you if the CPU is bottlenecking, as it only needs one thread not being processed quickly enough to create a bottleneck.

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#16
Posted 09/30/2016 02:40 PM   
I also don't understand that Logic.
I also don't understand that Logic.

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#17
Posted 09/30/2016 02:41 PM   
No way a CPU can bottleneck at such low framerates. Where's the logic there? He's not running fluid dynamics simulation. In the batman video, it seems the only time the framerate drops is when that bright orange thing is visible. When it's not visible, your framerates in 3D mode look great (I saw 50 - 144 fps in 3D if I recall). So maybe it has something to do with the coding of that bright object.
No way a CPU can bottleneck at such low framerates. Where's the logic there? He's not running fluid dynamics simulation.

In the batman video, it seems the only time the framerate drops is when that bright orange thing is visible. When it's not visible, your framerates in 3D mode look great (I saw 50 - 144 fps in 3D if I recall). So maybe it has something to do with the coding of that bright object.

#18
Posted 10/03/2016 06:04 AM   
[quote="terintamel"]Here are some better example videos of what I am seeing. All videos are with the 3Dvision driver enabled and I just turn on or off 3d using the button on the Emitter. Batman Arkham City https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgFcYjbuREU&feature=youtu.be Dishonored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km-e1tkzZ98&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWfCObQDAEs&feature=youtu.be I did try turning the affinity down in Dishonored and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 80fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (80fps) and 3d (35fps) was around 23-25%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 39% 2D (112fps) and 24% 3D (45fps). Ghostbusters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3eyXax0DVc&feature=youtu.be I also tried the affinity down in Ghostbusters and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 33fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (33fps) and 3d (12fps) was around 27%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 41% 2D (80fps) and 24% 3D (20fps). Do the above look like the CPU issue or something else? What further tests should I do, or is this just a per game game engine issue?[/quote] What I see in your videos has not much to do with 3Dvision. It's either something wrong with your PC/drivers or very poor optimization of the games. You have 20-30% GPU and CPU usage even in 2D, this means you don't have bottleneck from either. Or maybe you do have a CPU bottleneck but is not showing because this games might use only 1,2, 3 cores from the 8 you have.
terintamel said:Here are some better example videos of what I am seeing. All videos are with the 3Dvision driver enabled and I just turn on or off 3d using the button on the Emitter.

Batman Arkham City
;feature=youtu.be

Dishonored
;feature=youtu.be
;feature=youtu.be
I did try turning the affinity down in Dishonored and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 80fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (80fps) and 3d (35fps) was around 23-25%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 39% 2D (112fps) and 24% 3D (45fps).

Ghostbusters
;feature=youtu.be
I also tried the affinity down in Ghostbusters and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 33fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (33fps) and 3d (12fps) was around 27%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 41% 2D (80fps) and 24% 3D (20fps).

Do the above look like the CPU issue or something else? What further tests should I do, or is this just a per game game engine issue?


What I see in your videos has not much to do with 3Dvision. It's either something wrong with your PC/drivers or very poor optimization of the games. You have 20-30% GPU and CPU usage even in 2D, this means you don't have bottleneck from either. Or maybe you do have a CPU bottleneck but is not showing because this games might use only 1,2, 3 cores from the 8 you have.

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#19
Posted 10/03/2016 09:55 AM   
Just upgraded my graphic card fom 780 to 1070 and the games that I usually don't get 60fps are still the same. I don't think it is the processor, coz on msi aferburner the cores are not 100%. The processor is an old i7 860 @ 3.5, but i dont think it is cpu bottleneck. It is definitely 3D vision bad performance on these games, for instance, borderlands pre sequel fps drops to 35, Assassins Creed 2 fps drops to 25 in some locations, Rise son of Rome fps around 35 in some locations, Mafia 2 when driving the car around the city around 30fps.
Just upgraded my graphic card fom 780 to 1070 and the games that I usually don't get 60fps are still the same.
I don't think it is the processor, coz on msi aferburner the cores are not 100%. The processor is an old i7 860 @ 3.5, but i dont think it is cpu bottleneck.
It is definitely 3D vision bad performance on these games, for instance, borderlands pre sequel fps drops to 35, Assassins Creed 2 fps drops to 25 in some locations, Rise son of Rome fps around 35 in some locations, Mafia 2 when driving the car around the city around 30fps.

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#20
Posted 10/04/2016 02:58 AM   
[quote="J0hnnieW4lker"]Just upgraded my graphic card fom 780 to 1070 and the games that I usually don't get 60fps are still the same. I don't think it is the processor, coz on msi aferburner the cores are not 100%. The processor is an old i7 860 @ 3.5, but i dont think it is cpu bottleneck. It is definitely 3D vision bad performance on these games, for instance, borderlands pre sequel fps drops to 35, Assassins Creed 2 fps drops to 25 in some locations, Rise son of Rome fps around 35 in some locations, Mafia 2 when driving the car around the city around 30fps.[/quote] Just tried these games on Windows 10 and they are the same. I wonder if Windows 7 would make any difference, probably not. I know Batman games require an old driver, but I think I tried old drivers for these games when I had the 780 and didnt help much. It sucks, doesn't matter which graphic card you have, the games have the same performance in 3D Vision. Really, just wish there was a way to use native SBS in the games, just get rid of 3D Vision all together. I would gladly never use nvidia technology again, be dependent of crap nvidia support sucks.
J0hnnieW4lker said:Just upgraded my graphic card fom 780 to 1070 and the games that I usually don't get 60fps are still the same.
I don't think it is the processor, coz on msi aferburner the cores are not 100%. The processor is an old i7 860 @ 3.5, but i dont think it is cpu bottleneck.
It is definitely 3D vision bad performance on these games, for instance, borderlands pre sequel fps drops to 35, Assassins Creed 2 fps drops to 25 in some locations, Rise son of Rome fps around 35 in some locations, Mafia 2 when driving the car around the city around 30fps.


Just tried these games on Windows 10 and they are the same. I wonder if Windows 7 would make any difference, probably not. I know Batman games require an old driver, but I think I tried old drivers for these games when I had the 780 and didnt help much.

It sucks, doesn't matter which graphic card you have, the games have the same performance in 3D Vision.
Really, just wish there was a way to use native SBS in the games, just get rid of 3D Vision all together. I would gladly never use nvidia technology again, be dependent of crap nvidia support sucks.

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#21
Posted 10/04/2016 03:38 PM   
Some games/drivers/whatever just aren't very well optimised. For various reasons, I don't think you can rely on CPU % usage on its own to diagnose a CPU bottleneck. Rather, you need to play with settings instead. Normally a CPU bottleneck will be most visible at low resolutions. As you up the resolution and give the GPU more to render, the bottleneck moves to the GPU. IF you've upgraded your GPU from a 780 to a 1070 and aren't getting the performance expected then it could be a driver issue (bad install) but it's just as likely to be a CPU bottleneck. Play with resolutions and CPU clockspeeds if you like, you should be able to prove it that way, but at the end of the day an 860 is old and that's most likely your issue.
Some games/drivers/whatever just aren't very well optimised.

For various reasons, I don't think you can rely on CPU % usage on its own to diagnose a CPU bottleneck. Rather, you need to play with settings instead.

Normally a CPU bottleneck will be most visible at low resolutions. As you up the resolution and give the GPU more to render, the bottleneck moves to the GPU.

IF you've upgraded your GPU from a 780 to a 1070 and aren't getting the performance expected then it could be a driver issue (bad install) but it's just as likely to be a CPU bottleneck.
Play with resolutions and CPU clockspeeds if you like, you should be able to prove it that way, but at the end of the day an 860 is old and that's most likely your issue.

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#22
Posted 10/04/2016 07:16 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Use something like CPUz and make sure that your GPU is at 16X 2.0 in a 16x slot. For Batman, a dedicated PhysX card will help.[/quote] [quote="terintamel]"CPUz shows 16X 3.0 for the GPU. In the above tests PhysX effects were off.[/quote] When I had looked up your MB, it showed it as being PCi express 2.0 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4672#sp "(All PCI Express slots conform to the PCI Express 2.0 standard.)" Whenever you run into FPS tanking in a certain area, it can be caused by any number of things. In the following article, you can see where it was caused by ropes. http://kotaku.com/5986908/ah-so-thats-why-crysis-3s-first-level-is-so-bad Nvidia has resources that developers can use to pinpoint and correct performance issues. The problem is that the bean counters typically are squeezing nickels and will not appropriate the needed resources. Here's an old site page for Nvidia's tool. http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_36286.html
D-Man11 said:Use something like CPUz and make sure that your GPU is at 16X 2.0 in a 16x slot.

For Batman, a dedicated PhysX card will help.

terintamel said:"CPUz shows 16X 3.0 for the GPU.

In the above tests PhysX effects were off.


When I had looked up your MB, it showed it as being PCi express 2.0

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4672#sp
"(All PCI Express slots conform to the PCI Express 2.0 standard.)"

Whenever you run into FPS tanking in a certain area, it can be caused by any number of things. In the following article, you can see where it was caused by ropes.

http://kotaku.com/5986908/ah-so-thats-why-crysis-3s-first-level-is-so-bad

Nvidia has resources that developers can use to pinpoint and correct performance issues. The problem is that the bean counters typically are squeezing nickels and will not appropriate the needed resources.

Here's an old site page for Nvidia's tool.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_36286.html

#23
Posted 10/04/2016 08:25 PM   
[quote="rustyk"]Some games/drivers/whatever just aren't very well optimised. For various reasons, I don't think you can rely on CPU % usage on its own to diagnose a CPU bottleneck. Rather, you need to play with settings instead. Normally a CPU bottleneck will be most visible at low resolutions. As you up the resolution and give the GPU more to render, the bottleneck moves to the GPU. IF you've upgraded your GPU from a 780 to a 1070 and aren't getting the performance expected then it could be a driver issue (bad install) but it's just as likely to be a CPU bottleneck. Play with resolutions and CPU clockspeeds if you like, you should be able to prove it that way, but at the end of the day an 860 is old and that's most likely your issue.[/quote] If I upgrade my processor i am sure the issue wont go away. The CPU usage test should definitely tell me if it is a cpu bbottleneck! Moreover, in 2D I have no problems at all! I doubt that 3D Vision would be that much of a CPU intensive to cause the fps to goes down like this. In fact, I doubt anyone here can run with the latest drivers AC2 or Mafia 2 in 60fps even with the latest i7 and SLI of GTX1080 This seems to be for sure the same issue with batman games that i almost replaced my card to play in 3D Vision and then I found out it was the crap new drivers. The problem is that 80% of the games have performance issues in 3D vision, hell even Brutal Legends I installed the other day wouldn't run smooth with 60fps. There is just no way this is cpu bottleneck!
rustyk said:Some games/drivers/whatever just aren't very well optimised.

For various reasons, I don't think you can rely on CPU % usage on its own to diagnose a CPU bottleneck. Rather, you need to play with settings instead.

Normally a CPU bottleneck will be most visible at low resolutions. As you up the resolution and give the GPU more to render, the bottleneck moves to the GPU.

IF you've upgraded your GPU from a 780 to a 1070 and aren't getting the performance expected then it could be a driver issue (bad install) but it's just as likely to be a CPU bottleneck.
Play with resolutions and CPU clockspeeds if you like, you should be able to prove it that way, but at the end of the day an 860 is old and that's most likely your issue.


If I upgrade my processor i am sure the issue wont go away. The CPU usage test should definitely tell me if it is a cpu bbottleneck! Moreover, in 2D I have no problems at all! I doubt that 3D Vision would be that much of a CPU intensive to cause the fps to goes down like this. In fact, I doubt anyone here can run with the latest drivers AC2 or Mafia 2 in 60fps even with the latest i7 and SLI of GTX1080

This seems to be for sure the same issue with batman games that i almost replaced my card to play in 3D Vision and then I found out it was the crap new drivers. The problem is that 80% of the games have performance issues in 3D vision, hell even Brutal Legends I installed the other day wouldn't run smooth with 60fps. There is just no way this is cpu bottleneck!

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#24
Posted 10/04/2016 10:23 PM   
@J0hnnieW4lker I ran a test lab for a major game company all tests were done on clean installs before saying the 1070 you purchase is no good and upgrade your CPU. Do yourself a favor find a old hard drive and do a fresh install run you tests and see if the results are the same if you don't have another hard drive image your existing system and do a clean install. Below is a link for the free imaging software http://www.backup-utility.com/free-backup-software.html This way you can narrow down the problem.
@J0hnnieW4lker

I ran a test lab for a major game company all tests were done on clean installs before saying the 1070 you purchase is no good and upgrade your CPU.

Do yourself a favor find a old hard drive and do a fresh install run you tests and see if the results are the same if you don't have another hard drive image your existing system and do a clean install.

Below is a link for the free imaging software

http://www.backup-utility.com/free-backup-software.html

This way you can narrow down the problem.

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#25
Posted 10/04/2016 10:57 PM   
[quote="zig11727"]@J0hnnieW4lker I ran a test lab for a major game company before saying the 1070 you purchase is no good and upgrade your CPU. Do yourself a favor find a old hard drive and do a fresh install run you tests and see if the results are the same if you don't have another hard drive image your existing system and do a clean install. Below is a link for the free imaging software http://www.backup-utility.com/free-backup-software.html This way you can narrow down the problem. [/quote] I already did this. I put another disk and installed Windows 10. Got exact same results. I got Gears of War 4 with the nvidia promotion on this card, so just installed Windows 10 in another disk, currently I am running Win 8.1 I just havent tested with Windows 7. Might need another disk to test with Windows 7, dont want to partition one of the disks just for this test.
zig11727 said:@J0hnnieW4lker

I ran a test lab for a major game company before saying the 1070 you purchase is no good and upgrade your CPU.

Do yourself a favor find a old hard drive and do a fresh install run you tests and see if the results are the same if you don't have another hard drive image your existing system and do a clean install.

Below is a link for the free imaging software

http://www.backup-utility.com/free-backup-software.html

This way you can narrow down the problem.


I already did this. I put another disk and installed Windows 10. Got exact same results.
I got Gears of War 4 with the nvidia promotion on this card, so just installed Windows 10 in another disk, currently I am running Win 8.1
I just havent tested with Windows 7. Might need another disk to test with Windows 7, dont want to partition one of the disks just for this test.

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#26
Posted 10/04/2016 11:03 PM   
[quote="J0hnnieW4lker"]In fact, I doubt anyone here can run with the latest drivers AC2 or Mafia 2 in 60fps even with the latest i7 and SLI of GTX1080 [/quote] It works [color="green"]PERFECTLY FINE HERE[/color] mate. I get [color="gree"]60FPS in 3D SURROUND (5760x1080) in Mafia II[/color]. Latest drivers and SLI 980Ti. (Be careful what you bet against! ^_^). You expect a "current time" GPU to run on a now-considered OLG CPU + Motherboard. You people know just one thing... Update the GPU and expect "Miracles"... How about upgrading the CPU AND MOST IMPORTANTLY the MOTHERBOARD (If you serious about performance don't go CHEAP on the MOBO with the shits like "Ass"Rock or the licks. Buy a PREMIUM motherboard). If you really are serious about PC gaming: For a Pascal GPU, I would expect at least a LGA 1151 i5 CPU + DDR4 + PCI-E 3.0 Mobo. (The Mobo should be priced at around 100£ - minimum. Go with Asus Maximus - never fails. Go with a Current Generation i5 - never fails. Go with some GOOD DDR4 RAM - Corsair Vengeance/ Kingstone HypeX, etc RAM - never fails and lastly but as important - A PSU with AT LEAST 80% BRONZE efficiency - again never fails.) Otherwise: You get miss-fires like these... Sure, blame X, Y, Z, W. It's easy! But the problem is not x,y,z,w but the actual hardware which can't perform better! The fact that it works in 2D correctly and doesn't in 3D proves exactly that... HARDWARE bottlenecking... Everyone just relates to CPU or GPU for bottlenecks but forget to look at the most BASIC thing and that is the Motherboard ON WHICH EVERYTHING IS INSTALLED! (And I have seen some awesome builds with crappy motherboards having all sorts of issues due to this). But, what do I know... It was said before that I "contradict myself and know shit about anything"... So, leaving at that, is very easy to blame the software for things like this, but this smells more of a hardware issue to me. I still tend to believe that something is very flawed with the Pascal hardware design in general (and can be clearly seen in 3D Vision) or a mix of old+new architectures, etc...
J0hnnieW4lker said:In fact, I doubt anyone here can run with the latest drivers AC2 or Mafia 2 in 60fps even with the latest i7 and SLI of GTX1080


It works PERFECTLY FINE HERE mate. I get 60FPS in 3D SURROUND (5760x1080) in Mafia II. Latest drivers and SLI 980Ti.
(Be careful what you bet against! ^_^).
You expect a "current time" GPU to run on a now-considered OLG CPU + Motherboard. You people know just one thing... Update the GPU and expect "Miracles"...
How about upgrading the CPU AND MOST IMPORTANTLY the MOTHERBOARD (If you serious about performance don't go CHEAP on the MOBO with the shits like "Ass"Rock or the licks. Buy a PREMIUM motherboard).

If you really are serious about PC gaming:
For a Pascal GPU, I would expect at least a LGA 1151 i5 CPU + DDR4 + PCI-E 3.0 Mobo. (The Mobo should be priced at around 100£ - minimum. Go with Asus Maximus - never fails. Go with a Current Generation i5 - never fails. Go with some GOOD DDR4 RAM - Corsair Vengeance/ Kingstone HypeX, etc RAM - never fails and lastly but as important - A PSU with AT LEAST 80% BRONZE efficiency - again never fails.)

Otherwise:
You get miss-fires like these... Sure, blame X, Y, Z, W. It's easy! But the problem is not x,y,z,w but the actual hardware which can't perform better!

The fact that it works in 2D correctly and doesn't in 3D proves exactly that... HARDWARE bottlenecking... Everyone just relates to CPU or GPU for bottlenecks but forget to look at the most BASIC thing and that is the Motherboard ON WHICH EVERYTHING IS INSTALLED! (And I have seen some awesome builds with crappy motherboards having all sorts of issues due to this).

But, what do I know... It was said before that I "contradict myself and know shit about anything"... So, leaving at that, is very easy to blame the software for things like this, but this smells more of a hardware issue to me. I still tend to believe that something is very flawed with the Pascal hardware design in general (and can be clearly seen in 3D Vision) or a mix of old+new architectures, etc...

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#27
Posted 10/04/2016 11:05 PM   
What Windows version did you test?
What Windows version did you test?

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#28
Posted 10/04/2016 11:18 PM   
I still don't think it is hardware. There is no way AC2 wouldn't run 60fps. I ran Rise of Tomb Raider with everything max in native 3D SBS 60fps and on 3D Vision on 720p I had fps drops. The hardware cannot be good for some games and bad for others, sorry there is no way... When I got the right driver for the Batman games they ran all max on my GTX780. With recent drivers the Batman games were just terrible.
I still don't think it is hardware. There is no way AC2 wouldn't run 60fps.
I ran Rise of Tomb Raider with everything max in native 3D SBS 60fps and on 3D Vision on 720p I had fps drops.
The hardware cannot be good for some games and bad for others, sorry there is no way...
When I got the right driver for the Batman games they ran all max on my GTX780. With recent drivers the Batman games were just terrible.

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#29
Posted 10/04/2016 11:32 PM   
[quote="J0hnnieW4lker"]I still don't think it is hardware. There is no way AC2 wouldn't run 60fps. I ran Rise of Tomb Raider with everything max in native 3D SBS 60fps and on 3D Vision on 720p I had fps drops. The hardware cannot be good for some games and bad for others, sorry there is no way... When I got the right driver for the Batman games they ran all max on my GTX780. With recent drivers the Batman games were just terrible.[/quote] Of course it's hardware. How else would other people be able to get better performance than you are seeing? If the game or driver were that poorly tuned, then [i]no one[/i] would be able to reach better speed, but it's just you. You are confused about how to measure CPU usage. One primary CPU characteristic that I keep emphasizing is single-thread performance. Especially with older games like AC2, single-thread performance is paramount. Your 860 is a good chip (that was my last build), but it could easily be the bottleneck here. It's also easier for the CPU to be the bottleneck in 3D, as compared to 2D, because there are twice the driver calls to be sent to the GPU. If your system is right on the edge in 2D, 3D can push it over into a full bottleneck. However, as we found with terantimel's problem, it could be a bug that your specific hardware sees, but you are definitely coming to the wrong conclusion that the 3D driver is at fault. Windows 7 is unlikely to make any difference for this problem, unless it's a driver bug of some form for your setup. Edit: You've ruled out a bad OS install from the clean install, and I assume you are using the latest driver 372.90 that multiple people reported fixing their problem in Batman games. Unless you still have the 780 available for testing, you will be stuck with new drivers, and presently only 372.90 is worth using. Could be a bug relative to your system, but the most likely answer is the CPU bottleneck, unless you are absolutely certain you got better than 60 with your 780. It would be worth disabling hyper-threading, and trying to overclock your CPU to see if it helps.
J0hnnieW4lker said:I still don't think it is hardware. There is no way AC2 wouldn't run 60fps.
I ran Rise of Tomb Raider with everything max in native 3D SBS 60fps and on 3D Vision on 720p I had fps drops.
The hardware cannot be good for some games and bad for others, sorry there is no way...
When I got the right driver for the Batman games they ran all max on my GTX780. With recent drivers the Batman games were just terrible.

Of course it's hardware. How else would other people be able to get better performance than you are seeing?

If the game or driver were that poorly tuned, then no one would be able to reach better speed, but it's just you.

You are confused about how to measure CPU usage. One primary CPU characteristic that I keep emphasizing is single-thread performance. Especially with older games like AC2, single-thread performance is paramount. Your 860 is a good chip (that was my last build), but it could easily be the bottleneck here.

It's also easier for the CPU to be the bottleneck in 3D, as compared to 2D, because there are twice the driver calls to be sent to the GPU. If your system is right on the edge in 2D, 3D can push it over into a full bottleneck.


However, as we found with terantimel's problem, it could be a bug that your specific hardware sees, but you are definitely coming to the wrong conclusion that the 3D driver is at fault.

Windows 7 is unlikely to make any difference for this problem, unless it's a driver bug of some form for your setup.

Edit: You've ruled out a bad OS install from the clean install, and I assume you are using the latest driver 372.90 that multiple people reported fixing their problem in Batman games. Unless you still have the 780 available for testing, you will be stuck with new drivers, and presently only 372.90 is worth using. Could be a bug relative to your system, but the most likely answer is the CPU bottleneck, unless you are absolutely certain you got better than 60 with your 780.

It would be worth disabling hyper-threading, and trying to overclock your CPU to see if it helps.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
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#30
Posted 10/04/2016 11:43 PM   
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