How do I make my platform game work in 3Dvision?
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That's actually pretty interesting :)
That's actually pretty interesting :)

#16
Posted 06/07/2014 04:47 AM   
Here's a screenshot of my game, called Spryke. I still haven't gotten around to figuring out how to get 3D working. The game is a side-scrolling 2D game, but uses a parallax effect. What you see in this screenshot is comprised of about 15-20 separate layers that move at different speeds, with various buildings, ships, clouds, and fog all moving at different speeds to simulate depth. This is more or less how Rayman Origins worked, and many people loved that in 3D. As you can see, I make heavy use of depth of field. Unfortunately for those who don't like DoF, I don't think I'll ever make it optional. Making two sets of graphics (one blurred and one unblurred) is actually pretty trivial, but putting them both into the engine is not, and would require a lot of work to be done twice. Also, having blurred background elements allows me to use less detail which in turn allows me to spend more time detailing the foreground elements. I've always liked DoF in both 2D and 3D, but I know that some people here hate it. My question is: would you play a game that looked like this in 3D, even with the depth of field? I don't know how long it will take me to figure out 3D for this game, and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth my while to try. Obviously I'd LOVE the game to work in 3D, but I'm just one guy and already have a mountain of work ahead of me, so have to be smart about my priorities. I've quit my job to work full-time on Spryke, so every week I spend on it is another week of no income while our savings continue to shrink. [img]http://dawidbleja.com/stuff/spryke-screenshot-volnaiskra-3dvision.jpg[/img]
Here's a screenshot of my game, called Spryke. I still haven't gotten around to figuring out how to get 3D working.

The game is a side-scrolling 2D game, but uses a parallax effect. What you see in this screenshot is comprised of about 15-20 separate layers that move at different speeds, with various buildings, ships, clouds, and fog all moving at different speeds to simulate depth. This is more or less how Rayman Origins worked, and many people loved that in 3D.

As you can see, I make heavy use of depth of field. Unfortunately for those who don't like DoF, I don't think I'll ever make it optional. Making two sets of graphics (one blurred and one unblurred) is actually pretty trivial, but putting them both into the engine is not, and would require a lot of work to be done twice. Also, having blurred background elements allows me to use less detail which in turn allows me to spend more time detailing the foreground elements.

I've always liked DoF in both 2D and 3D, but I know that some people here hate it. My question is: would you play a game that looked like this in 3D, even with the depth of field?

I don't know how long it will take me to figure out 3D for this game, and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth my while to try. Obviously I'd LOVE the game to work in 3D, but I'm just one guy and already have a mountain of work ahead of me, so have to be smart about my priorities. I've quit my job to work full-time on Spryke, so every week I spend on it is another week of no income while our savings continue to shrink.

Image

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#17
Posted 11/26/2014 06:19 AM   
That is looking really sweet! Best of luck to you on your development. To answer your DOF question: I'm not a big fan of DOF, but it wouldn't stop me from playing a game. That's also sort of a business choice. The vast majority like DOF as demonstrated by games and movies, and so having DOF-off would seem to be a 2.0 feature. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't worry about 3D until after the 2D is done. Unless you stumble across a plugin or something that makes it easy. We all know that the 3D market is vanishingly small, and that's the business choice that most people have to make. Big companies have no excuse for it, but indies have to keep their eye on the ball. It might be worth a days effort to see if you can get 3D work, because you are an enthusiast. A weeks time is too much. Since these are at different layers already- there absolutely must be some ordering to them, some sort of depth. I suppose that they might just draw back to front, but there'd be more flexibility if they have a z-depth of some form. What happens when you run it with 3D Vision enabled? If it's full screen (not windowed) Automatic Mode should kick in and make it 3D. You've said before that the engine is a sprite/2D engine, which might convince 3D Vision that it's not a true 3D game (no 3D models), and thus might also not engage. Worth the experiment anyway.
That is looking really sweet! Best of luck to you on your development.

To answer your DOF question: I'm not a big fan of DOF, but it wouldn't stop me from playing a game. That's also sort of a business choice. The vast majority like DOF as demonstrated by games and movies, and so having DOF-off would seem to be a 2.0 feature.


If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't worry about 3D until after the 2D is done. Unless you stumble across a plugin or something that makes it easy.

We all know that the 3D market is vanishingly small, and that's the business choice that most people have to make. Big companies have no excuse for it, but indies have to keep their eye on the ball.


It might be worth a days effort to see if you can get 3D work, because you are an enthusiast. A weeks time is too much.

Since these are at different layers already- there absolutely must be some ordering to them, some sort of depth. I suppose that they might just draw back to front, but there'd be more flexibility if they have a z-depth of some form.

What happens when you run it with 3D Vision enabled? If it's full screen (not windowed) Automatic Mode should kick in and make it 3D.

You've said before that the engine is a sprite/2D engine, which might convince 3D Vision that it's not a true 3D game (no 3D models), and thus might also not engage. Worth the experiment anyway.

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#18
Posted 11/26/2014 08:56 AM   
I don't really care for DoF, but I wouldn't turn down a 3D game just for that reason. There might be people on the forum who could take a look at a pre-release version for you, and see if they can get 3D running. I'm happy to look if you like, though there are much more experienced people than myself around here.
I don't really care for DoF, but I wouldn't turn down a 3D game just for that reason.

There might be people on the forum who could take a look at a pre-release version for you, and see if they can get 3D running. I'm happy to look if you like, though there are much more experienced people than myself around here.

#19
Posted 11/26/2014 01:25 PM   
It's been awhile since I messed with this but I didn't have much luck with any of the games using this engine that I had and had tried at the time, NightSky, Really Big Sky, etc. Pretty sure the dll wouldn't work either ... but I can't check my DLP is down at the moment, really hoping I can fix it.
It's been awhile since I messed with this but I didn't have much luck with any of the games using this engine that I had and had tried at the time, NightSky, Really Big Sky, etc. Pretty sure the dll wouldn't work either ... but I can't check my DLP is down at the moment, really hoping I can fix it.
#20
Posted 11/26/2014 04:55 PM   
TsaebehT, that's not promising. When you say you "messed" with those games, do you mean you just loaded them up, or did you try different profiles, try the helixmod, etc.?
TsaebehT, that's not promising. When you say you "messed" with those games, do you mean you just loaded them up, or did you try different profiles, try the helixmod, etc.?

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#21
Posted 11/27/2014 12:45 AM   
DLP's working for the moment so I thought I'd check it out again while I was thinking of it. NightSky does nothing at all(Doesn't trigger 3D Vision, No red text with HelixMod dll) and Really Big Sky triggers 3D Vision but it's still 2D(Not Doubled) even on Profiles, Aion, Google Earth(Usually at least makes it double, 2D in depth), Fuel, etc. The red text is also displayed with RBS but I couldn't cycle through any Shaders(remained at 0) and neither would create the Dumps folder with DumpAll set to True. Either way though a good 2D game, like PixelJunk Shooter or Insanely Twisted Shadow Planer, is still perfectly fine in 2D ... games like Rayman Origins and Teslagrad in 3D is just icing on the cake. Polygon games in 2D that's a whole different story ... :)
DLP's working for the moment so I thought I'd check it out again while I was thinking of it. NightSky does nothing at all(Doesn't trigger 3D Vision, No red text with HelixMod dll) and Really Big Sky triggers 3D Vision but it's still 2D(Not Doubled) even on Profiles, Aion, Google Earth(Usually at least makes it double, 2D in depth), Fuel, etc. The red text is also displayed with RBS but I couldn't cycle through any Shaders(remained at 0) and neither would create the Dumps folder with DumpAll set to True. Either way though a good 2D game, like PixelJunk Shooter or Insanely Twisted Shadow Planer, is still perfectly fine in 2D ... games like Rayman Origins and Teslagrad in 3D is just icing on the cake. Polygon games in 2D that's a whole different story ... :)
#22
Posted 12/02/2014 05:12 AM   
Great screenshot. I think i see a nice Mass Effect influence. Another set idea would be the multi-leveled cityscape in 5th Element or some Star Wars worlds, maybe with the camera angled slightly down or something, i don't know. Some art by Gilles Tran might lend some ideas too.
Great screenshot. I think i see a nice Mass Effect influence. Another set idea would be the multi-leveled cityscape in 5th Element or some Star Wars worlds, maybe with the camera angled slightly down or something, i don't know. Some art by Gilles Tran might lend some ideas too.

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#23
Posted 12/02/2014 07:44 AM   
There's definitely a conscious Mass Effect influence :) I've always been a huge fan of the urban environments of Mass Effect. I've even got a framed concept art picture of Illium on my desk, and a framed A4 concept art print of the Citadel on my wall. I referenced both of these as I made some of my building designs. :) [quote="TsaebehT"]DLP's working for the moment so I thought I'd check it out again while I was thinking of it. NightSky does nothing at all(Doesn't trigger 3D Vision, No red text with HelixMod dll) and Really Big Sky triggers 3D Vision but it's still 2D(Not Doubled) even on Profiles, Aion, Google Earth(Usually at least makes it double, 2D in depth), Fuel, etc. The red text is also displayed with RBS but I couldn't cycle through any Shaders(remained at 0) and neither would create the Dumps folder with DumpAll set to True. Either way though a good 2D game, like PixelJunk Shooter or Insanely Twisted Shadow Planer, is still perfectly fine in 2D ... games like Rayman Origins and Teslagrad in 3D is just icing on the cake. Polygon games in 2D that's a whole different story ... :)[/quote]ok, thanks for that research. The same has happened when I've run builds of Spryke with 3dVision turned on. Nvidia's green overlay text triggers, but everything is flat and in 'perfect' 2D. I've no idea where to go from there.
There's definitely a conscious Mass Effect influence :) I've always been a huge fan of the urban environments of Mass Effect. I've even got a framed concept art picture of Illium on my desk, and a framed A4 concept art print of the Citadel on my wall. I referenced both of these as I made some of my building designs. :)

TsaebehT said:DLP's working for the moment so I thought I'd check it out again while I was thinking of it. NightSky does nothing at all(Doesn't trigger 3D Vision, No red text with HelixMod dll) and Really Big Sky triggers 3D Vision but it's still 2D(Not Doubled) even on Profiles, Aion, Google Earth(Usually at least makes it double, 2D in depth), Fuel, etc. The red text is also displayed with RBS but I couldn't cycle through any Shaders(remained at 0) and neither would create the Dumps folder with DumpAll set to True. Either way though a good 2D game, like PixelJunk Shooter or Insanely Twisted Shadow Planer, is still perfectly fine in 2D ... games like Rayman Origins and Teslagrad in 3D is just icing on the cake. Polygon games in 2D that's a whole different story ... :)
ok, thanks for that research.

The same has happened when I've run builds of Spryke with 3dVision turned on. Nvidia's green overlay text triggers, but everything is flat and in 'perfect' 2D. I've no idea where to go from there.

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#24
Posted 12/04/2014 01:33 AM   
Somebody was able to make a VR version of Five Nights At Freddy's (which I understand uses Fusion also). I don't know if this game works with 3DVision, however. [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agiSR3S3AtE[/video]
Somebody was able to make a VR version of Five Nights At Freddy's (which I understand uses Fusion also). I don't know if this game works with 3DVision, however.

[video][/video]

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#25
Posted 12/04/2014 04:52 AM   
That video doesn't look like 3D to me, just duplicated display. Also: [url]https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17323[/url] I read the documentation for Fusion, and as far as I could tell it's strictly 2D, and oriented around smartphone game development. Having noted that, since you get the nvidia help text, that means that the 3D Driver sees it as 3D to start. It would be worth a small experiment to see if you can do shader hunting on the layers in the game. If you can isolate anything via shader, we could artificially add depth to each of the layers.
That video doesn't look like 3D to me, just duplicated display.

Also: https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17323


I read the documentation for Fusion, and as far as I could tell it's strictly 2D, and oriented around smartphone game development.

Having noted that, since you get the nvidia help text, that means that the 3D Driver sees it as 3D to start.

It would be worth a small experiment to see if you can do shader hunting on the layers in the game. If you can isolate anything via shader, we could artificially add depth to each of the layers.

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#26
Posted 12/04/2014 06:20 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]I read the documentation for Fusion, and as far as I could tell it's strictly 2D, and oriented around smartphone game development.[/quote]I think they're just pushing the smartphone thing because there's a lot of interest in that now. From what I know, Fusion's existed in one form or another since the mid 90s. I think it first started out as a PC environment, though it was used heavily for Flash games back when Flash games were a thing, and I guess it's going through a smartphone phase now. Though the smartphone compilers are separate plugins that you have to buy. The core Fusion software is PC-only. Should I use 3dmigoto to shaderhunt?
bo3b said:I read the documentation for Fusion, and as far as I could tell it's strictly 2D, and oriented around smartphone game development.
I think they're just pushing the smartphone thing because there's a lot of interest in that now.

From what I know, Fusion's existed in one form or another since the mid 90s. I think it first started out as a PC environment, though it was used heavily for Flash games back when Flash games were a thing, and I guess it's going through a smartphone phase now. Though the smartphone compilers are separate plugins that you have to buy. The core Fusion software is PC-only.

Should I use 3dmigoto to shaderhunt?

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#27
Posted 12/04/2014 10:49 AM   
It doesn't look to me like they require DX11 support, which is where 3Dmigoto would come in. Pretty sure Fusion generates DX9 games, in which case you'd use HelixMod instead. In case it's helpful, here's some fairly extensive documentation you likely missed on using HelixMod. [url]http://wiki.bo3b.net/[/url] Since you can't really justify spending too much time looking into this, you might consider asking for a volunteer shaderhacker and throwing a copy of a dev build to someone here for them to do shader hunting and HelixMod check. Only need the binary.
It doesn't look to me like they require DX11 support, which is where 3Dmigoto would come in.

Pretty sure Fusion generates DX9 games, in which case you'd use HelixMod instead.

In case it's helpful, here's some fairly extensive documentation you likely missed on using HelixMod. http://wiki.bo3b.net/


Since you can't really justify spending too much time looking into this, you might consider asking for a volunteer shaderhacker and throwing a copy of a dev build to someone here for them to do shader hunting and HelixMod check. Only need the binary.

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#28
Posted 12/04/2014 09:27 PM   
I just tried shaderhunting with helixmod in Spryke, and it doesn't look promising. I get red debug text, but 'cycling' between shaders goes from 0 to -1, for both pixelshaders and vertex shaders. Similar to what TsaebehT found. So, I guess that means there are no shaders at all? Fusion does support shader effects, though I haven't used any yet. Is it theoretically possible that if I applied shader effects to all layers in my game, those layers might become discoverable by helixmod?
I just tried shaderhunting with helixmod in Spryke, and it doesn't look promising. I get red debug text, but 'cycling' between shaders goes from 0 to -1, for both pixelshaders and vertex shaders. Similar to what TsaebehT found.

So, I guess that means there are no shaders at all? Fusion does support shader effects, though I haven't used any yet. Is it theoretically possible that if I applied shader effects to all layers in my game, those layers might become discoverable by helixmod?

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#29
Posted 03/15/2015 03:05 AM   
Since you're the developer, you could also use Nvidia's PerfHud/Nsight studio to check performance and fine tune any problem areas. I think it also allows you to edit textures and shaders on the fly as well. It's on this page under tools, check youtube for tutorials. https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks Dunno if it works with every engine.
Since you're the developer, you could also use Nvidia's PerfHud/Nsight studio to check performance and fine tune any problem areas.

I think it also allows you to edit textures and shaders on the fly as well.

It's on this page under tools, check youtube for tutorials.

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks

Dunno if it works with every engine.

#30
Posted 03/15/2015 03:48 AM   
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