Are AV receivers too much trouble?
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I sifted through the forums on this topic, because I want a decent sound system. I see people have trouble getting it to work with 3d vision. I will be using it for my Optoma hd27hdr projector. Are there any other viable options? I would love to have some tower speakers or good bookshelf speakers I can put on legs to raise the height. But they all seem to need a receiver.
I sifted through the forums on this topic, because I want a decent sound system. I see people have trouble getting it to work with 3d vision. I will be using it for my Optoma hd27hdr projector. Are there any other viable options? I would love to have some tower speakers or good bookshelf speakers I can put on legs to raise the height. But they all seem to need a receiver.

#1
Posted 05/31/2019 09:45 PM   
I don't know about a projector, but I'm using a receiver with a 3D Vision monitor. I just have them connected separately to the video card. You can do the same with a projector in the worst case. The only problem is the receiver is recognized as a separate display by Windows, no matter if some display is actually connected to it or not, so projector->receiver->GPU connection would be the best if you can make it work. Or if you also have a regular monitor in addition to your projector, you can connect it via the receiver instead.
I don't know about a projector, but I'm using a receiver with a 3D Vision monitor. I just have them connected separately to the video card. You can do the same with a projector in the worst case. The only problem is the receiver is recognized as a separate display by Windows, no matter if some display is actually connected to it or not, so projector->receiver->GPU connection would be the best if you can make it work. Or if you also have a regular monitor in addition to your projector, you can connect it via the receiver instead.

#2
Posted 06/01/2019 12:49 AM   
Yeah just use two connections. And there Was a possibility of disabling audio from from hdmi for the video output one but i don’t recommend it as o personally just found it giving me some strange problems.
Yeah just use two connections. And there Was a possibility of disabling audio from from hdmi for the video output one but i don’t recommend it as o personally just found it giving me some strange problems.

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#3
Posted 06/01/2019 06:35 AM   
There always strange things happen when you loop through an AV Receiver... I personally go straight from Graphics Card via HDMI into my Beamer... Sound came from Soundcard/Mainboard via optical Cable, have to enable DTS Connect in Order to get Multichannel/ 5.1 in Games...
There always strange things happen when you loop through an AV Receiver... I personally go straight from Graphics Card via HDMI into my Beamer... Sound came from Soundcard/Mainboard via optical Cable, have to enable DTS Connect in Order to get Multichannel/ 5.1 in Games...

#4
Posted 06/01/2019 07:11 AM   
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#5
Posted 06/01/2019 11:23 AM   
I've used several receivers with my projector, connected via hdmi passthrough. Never had any problems with 3D as a result.
I've used several receivers with my projector, connected via hdmi passthrough. Never had any problems with 3D as a result.

#6
Posted 06/01/2019 12:49 PM   
I do recall that some users reported that the AVR could not extract the sound stream when DSR is used. I seem to recall a Nvidia support FAQ in this regard. If you are planning on watching videos or using Atmos, HDMI is the easiest way. But for playing games (non Atmos), toslink is the easiest solution. Depending on the games you play, an AVR with Analog inputs can be your best bet. The best solution, is to use all three outputs, with two sound cards if you play older games. Then you have an option to switch between which output works best from which sound card. You'll want one that supports Alchemy if playing older games. If interested, read this thread. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/932657/3d-vision/dolby-atmos/1/
I do recall that some users reported that the AVR could not extract the sound stream when DSR is used. I seem to recall a Nvidia support FAQ in this regard.

If you are planning on watching videos or using Atmos, HDMI is the easiest way.

But for playing games (non Atmos), toslink is the easiest solution.

Depending on the games you play, an AVR with Analog inputs can be your best bet.

The best solution, is to use all three outputs, with two sound cards if you play older games. Then you have an option to switch between which output works best from which sound card. You'll want one that supports Alchemy if playing older games.

If interested, read this thread.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/932657/3d-vision/dolby-atmos/1/

#7
Posted 06/01/2019 01:32 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]But for playing games (non Atmos), toslink is the easiest solution. Depending on the games you play, an AVR with Analog inputs can be your best bet. The best solution, is to use all three outputs, with two sound cards if you play older games. Then you have an option to switch between which output works best from which sound card. You'll want one that supports Alchemy if playing older games.[/quote] Why it that? Only because of Alchemy? I use HDMI for everything including games, and have no issues at all. EAX in old games doesn't work of course, but I don't play games with EAX support that often anyway.
D-Man11 said:But for playing games (non Atmos), toslink is the easiest solution.

Depending on the games you play, an AVR with Analog inputs can be your best bet.

The best solution, is to use all three outputs, with two sound cards if you play older games. Then you have an option to switch between which output works best from which sound card. You'll want one that supports Alchemy if playing older games.

Why it that? Only because of Alchemy? I use HDMI for everything including games, and have no issues at all. EAX in old games doesn't work of course, but I don't play games with EAX support that often anyway.

#8
Posted 06/01/2019 03:04 PM   
one hdmi doesnt carry atmos and 1080p@100/120hz usually.
one hdmi doesnt carry atmos and 1080p@100/120hz usually.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
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Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#9
Posted 06/01/2019 03:25 PM   
[quote="john105"]I use HDMI for everything including games, and have no issues at all. EAX in old games doesn't work of course, but I don't play games with EAX support that often anyway.[/quote] If that works for you and you are happy, then that's great. In reality, I use an integrated 8 channel sound card (Realtek), plus a USB 5.1 (Creative) and another USB 7.1 (Xonar), in addition to my GPU's HDMI, that are all leveraged depending on which display I'm using or game I'm playing. Using the different soundcards from different manufacturers allows 3 different drivers to be leveraged. I used to alternate between OEM and hacked sound drivers, but it was a PITA. This is in combination with two 5.1 and two 7.2 receivers and an old Polk Audio 2.1 that I will be upgrading eventually. But I game in 3 directions, my pc on one wall, my PJ screen on the opposite wall and a 3D 1080P Passive TV on the other. On some occasions, I have to manually change connections to achieve what I want, but that's not too often. I'm on W7, so Atmos for gaming is not a factor atm. I also use one [url=https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-Premium-Quality-TOSLINK/dp/B00HQ2R38C/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=toslink+switch&qid=1559411982&s=gateway&sr=8-4]Toslink splitter[/url]. In addition, I use a set of these [url=https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-3-5mm-2-Male-Adapter-Cable/dp/B01D5H8KO2/]cables[/url] for each soundcard. It's complicated to a small degree and I'm not interested in explaining it. With the exception of a cheap 4K receiver with Atmos support for my standalone 4K Blue-ray player, the other receivers were bought from Craigslist for dirt cheap. This is due to the old Receivers have preamp/analog inputs as well as multiple Toslink inputs. It's complicated and I'm not really interested in explaining it all, but I'm happy with the sound I get. But even if I was just gaming on the one wall, I would not just use HDMI for everything.
john105 said:I use HDMI for everything including games, and have no issues at all. EAX in old games doesn't work of course, but I don't play games with EAX support that often anyway.


If that works for you and you are happy, then that's great.

In reality, I use an integrated 8 channel sound card (Realtek), plus a USB 5.1 (Creative) and another USB 7.1 (Xonar), in addition to my GPU's HDMI, that are all leveraged depending on which display I'm using or game I'm playing. Using the different soundcards from different manufacturers allows 3 different drivers to be leveraged. I used to alternate between OEM and hacked sound drivers, but it was a PITA.

This is in combination with two 5.1 and two 7.2 receivers and an old Polk Audio 2.1 that I will be upgrading eventually. But I game in 3 directions, my pc on one wall, my PJ screen on the opposite wall and a 3D 1080P Passive TV on the other. On some occasions, I have to manually change connections to achieve what I want, but that's not too often.

I'm on W7, so Atmos for gaming is not a factor atm.

I also use one Toslink splitter. In addition, I use a set of these cables for each soundcard.

It's complicated to a small degree and I'm not interested in explaining it. With the exception of a cheap 4K receiver with Atmos support for my standalone 4K Blue-ray player, the other receivers were bought from Craigslist for dirt cheap. This is due to the old Receivers have preamp/analog inputs as well as multiple Toslink inputs.

It's complicated and I'm not really interested in explaining it all, but I'm happy with the sound I get.

But even if I was just gaming on the one wall, I would not just use HDMI for everything.

#10
Posted 06/01/2019 06:38 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]It's complicated and I'm not really interested in explaining it all, but I'm happy with the sound I get. But even if I was just gaming on the one wall, I would not just use HDMI for everything.[/quote] Ok, that's fine. I was just interested if it's just EAX I'm missing, or something more...
D-Man11 said:It's complicated and I'm not really interested in explaining it all, but I'm happy with the sound I get.

But even if I was just gaming on the one wall, I would not just use HDMI for everything.

Ok, that's fine. I was just interested if it's just EAX I'm missing, or something more...

#11
Posted 06/01/2019 06:48 PM   
I've got an Optoma projector that goes through a Sony 7.1 receiver that supports 4k signals. My pc ends up picking it up as a sony av system which breaks 3d vision compatibility but i'm using a edid override to fix it. Once I install the edid override driver it then picks up the projector properly and 3d vision works. I pass audio to my AV system using an optical cable instead of HDMI, my av system has an option to use a different audio connection from the video source. This allows me to get dolby and DTS working. The only problem i run into is when i try to play Netflix or HBO on my projector, the HDCP protection thinks i'm doing something fishy and it makes my projector output static. Not a huge issue since i mainly play 3d games using this setup, i use the projector in my bedroom for movies.
I've got an Optoma projector that goes through a Sony 7.1 receiver that supports 4k signals. My pc ends up picking it up as a sony av system which breaks 3d vision compatibility but i'm using a edid override to fix it. Once I install the edid override driver it then picks up the projector properly and 3d vision works. I pass audio to my AV system using an optical cable instead of HDMI, my av system has an option to use a different audio connection from the video source. This allows me to get dolby and DTS working.

The only problem i run into is when i try to play Netflix or HBO on my projector, the HDCP protection thinks i'm doing something fishy and it makes my projector output static. Not a huge issue since i mainly play 3d games using this setup, i use the projector in my bedroom for movies.

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#12
Posted 06/06/2019 10:02 PM   
I should thank D-Man11 twice. First for getting me thinking about EAX/Alchemy that made me do a little research, and second for this post [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/988572/3d-vision/sound-blaster-z-gaming-pack/post/5066195/#5066195[/url] I knew about Alchemy for a long time (since back when I upgraded from Windows XP to Vista in 2006). But I always though that Alchemy only works with some Creative cards. The above post from D-Man11 has a link to a universal version of Alchemy. I tried it with my AVR connected via HDMI and it worked just fine! To summarize there are 3 main ways to connect an AVR: 1. Using analog outputs of a sound card. The main disadvantage here is analog sound signal is prone to interference. It can be mostly mitigated using balanced outputs, but both the sound card and the AVR should have them. 2. S/PDIF (optical or coaxial). The main disadvantage is the limited bandwidth that's only enough for 2 channel uncompressed PCM audio or multichannel lossy Dolby Digital and DTS codecs. This makes lossless multichannel audio impossible. There are workarounds called Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect that encode PCM sound that games and most other applications produce. However they slightly (or not slightly for audiophiles ;) ) reduce the quality, and the sound card driver must have support for it. 3. HDMI. I think this is the best option. It supports much higher bandwidth that allows multichannel uncompressed PCM, as well as lossless Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD MA, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. I thought that option #1 or #2 can still be preferable for old games that support EAX, but as it turns out, Creative ALchemy Universal works just fine with HDMI and NVIDIA HDA driver. I think it makes it an obvious choice even for games. Unless you have a very old AVR without HDMI of course.
I should thank D-Man11 twice. First for getting me thinking about EAX/Alchemy that made me do a little research, and second for this post https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/988572/3d-vision/sound-blaster-z-gaming-pack/post/5066195/#5066195

I knew about Alchemy for a long time (since back when I upgraded from Windows XP to Vista in 2006). But I always though that Alchemy only works with some Creative cards. The above post from D-Man11 has a link to a universal version of Alchemy. I tried it with my AVR connected via HDMI and it worked just fine!

To summarize there are 3 main ways to connect an AVR:

1. Using analog outputs of a sound card. The main disadvantage here is analog sound signal is prone to interference. It can be mostly mitigated using balanced outputs, but both the sound card and the AVR should have them.

2. S/PDIF (optical or coaxial). The main disadvantage is the limited bandwidth that's only enough for 2 channel uncompressed PCM audio or multichannel lossy Dolby Digital and DTS codecs. This makes lossless multichannel audio impossible. There are workarounds called Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect that encode PCM sound that games and most other applications produce. However they slightly (or not slightly for audiophiles ;) ) reduce the quality, and the sound card driver must have support for it.

3. HDMI. I think this is the best option. It supports much higher bandwidth that allows multichannel uncompressed PCM, as well as lossless Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD MA, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. I thought that option #1 or #2 can still be preferable for old games that support EAX, but as it turns out, Creative ALchemy Universal works just fine with HDMI and NVIDIA HDA driver. I think it makes it an obvious choice even for games. Unless you have a very old AVR without HDMI of course.

#13
Posted 06/13/2019 03:35 AM   
YW, but all thanks go to the people that posted the youtube videos and game lists for audio. As well as to GibsonRed for pointing out some things to me. Like you said earlier, Alchemy does not matter, if you do not play older games. But DSOAL should also be mentioned, it wraps EAX and to OpenAL for Head Phones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31gVvMGIlaM 3 links you should bookmark http://satsun.org/audio/ [url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SyOw7D0H2ecGxzPsCFEFKwupU8LuazUrlkI-gVTpyhc/edit#[/url] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAklgDNC_LBOYSBbIzBeso6I4laForovIWiTYx6Ss8k/edit You should also look into picking up a second soundcard and installing Dolby Digital on it, it should be different than your existing soundcard. I have Xonar, Creative and Realtek soundcards. Check youtube for doing so, but be careful, some of the links are malware. Or buy an old soundcard that has it included. For Head Phones, this paid app linked by Blacksmith56 could be a viable alternative in games and music, it has a trial. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1103185/3d-vision/the-long-road-to-complete-immersion- [color="orange"]Note: I'm on W7, I've no idea about W10[/color] I've said it before, PC sound throughout the years is a bit of a convoluted mess. Just like 3D adds to immersion, sound can as well, with a little work. Or virtual surround can be used with decent results for those that desire a plug and play experience.
YW, but all thanks go to the people that posted the youtube videos and game lists for audio. As well as to GibsonRed for pointing out some things to me.

Like you said earlier, Alchemy does not matter, if you do not play older games. But DSOAL should also be mentioned, it wraps EAX and to OpenAL for Head Phones



3 links you should bookmark

http://satsun.org/audio/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SyOw7D0H2ecGxzPsCFEFKwupU8LuazUrlkI-gVTpyhc/edit#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAklgDNC_LBOYSBbIzBeso6I4laForovIWiTYx6Ss8k/edit

You should also look into picking up a second soundcard and installing Dolby Digital on it, it should be different than your existing soundcard. I have Xonar, Creative and Realtek soundcards. Check youtube for doing so, but be careful, some of the links are malware. Or buy an old soundcard that has it included.

For Head Phones, this paid app linked by Blacksmith56 could be a viable alternative in games and music, it has a trial.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1103185/3d-vision/the-long-road-to-complete-immersion-

Note: I'm on W7, I've no idea about W10

I've said it before, PC sound throughout the years is a bit of a convoluted mess. Just like 3D adds to immersion, sound can as well, with a little work. Or virtual surround can be used with decent results for those that desire a plug and play experience.

#14
Posted 06/13/2019 10:33 AM   
Dugom also pointed out a nice equalizer app that is free [quote="Dugom"]This may help: https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.hardware.fr%2Fhfr%2FVideoSon%2FTraitement-Audio%2Fegaliser-windows-gratuitement-sujet_141017_1.htm%23t1874210&edit-text=[/quote] https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
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