As the OP I'd like to add my 2 cents if you are still listening Andrew.
First thank you for taking the time to listen to us.
My way of explaining it would be to allow the user to engage checkerboard mode on any TV that supports it. It simply is the best mode for gaming. I agree with the others that this is so important, that having to manually place the TV into checkerboard mode is a non issue.
We also want to be able to accomplish this using the TV manufacturers glasses as many new sets don't have the emitter port to drive the nVidia glasses and it also just makes things easier all around.
All of this started because my Mitsubishi WD-73838 used to be an HDMI 1.3 set and worked beautifully with checkerboard. Then Mitsubishi "pushed" down a firmware update that upgraded the set to HDMI 1.4 and sadly, your drivers stopped outputting checkerboard mode to it, only 720p/60.
As the OP I'd like to add my 2 cents if you are still listening Andrew.
First thank you for taking the time to listen to us.
My way of explaining it would be to allow the user to engage checkerboard mode on any TV that supports it. It simply is the best mode for gaming. I agree with the others that this is so important, that having to manually place the TV into checkerboard mode is a non issue.
We also want to be able to accomplish this using the TV manufacturers glasses as many new sets don't have the emitter port to drive the nVidia glasses and it also just makes things easier all around.
All of this started because my Mitsubishi WD-73838 used to be an HDMI 1.3 set and worked beautifully with checkerboard. Then Mitsubishi "pushed" down a firmware update that upgraded the set to HDMI 1.4 and sadly, your drivers stopped outputting checkerboard mode to it, only 720p/60.
Let's hear it for Bobeggy for creating this thread! And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter. This all started when he posted his discovery that 1. Samsung supports checkerboard, and 2. Here's how to defeat the downresing of crippled 3D Vision to allow for full strength 3D gaming. I would have never understood this issue, nor the fix. Like most, I would have accepted the sad state of affairs and been resentful. Thanks to Nobsi, I will be gaming in 3D nirvana. Here's to you, Nobsi!
Let's hear it for Bobeggy for creating this thread! And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter. This all started when he posted his discovery that 1. Samsung supports checkerboard, and 2. Here's how to defeat the downresing of crippled 3D Vision to allow for full strength 3D gaming. I would have never understood this issue, nor the fix. Like most, I would have accepted the sad state of affairs and been resentful. Thanks to Nobsi, I will be gaming in 3D nirvana. Here's to you, Nobsi!
[quote name='roller11' date='22 January 2011 - 04:48 AM' timestamp='1295671689' post='1181514']
Let's hear it for Bobeggy for creating this thread! And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter. This all started when he posted his discovery that 1. Samsung supports checkerboard, and 2. Here's how to defeat the downresing of crippled 3D Vision to allow for full strength 3D gaming. I would have never understood this issue, nor the fix. Like most, I would have accepted the sad state of affairs and been resentful. Thanks to Nobsi, I will be gaming in 3D nirvana. Here's to you, Nobsi!
[/quote]
As a Samsung 1.4 owner I totally agree. Thanks to all that brought this up. Good luck with getting nvidia to go along, though. Samsung rules!
[quote name='roller11' date='22 January 2011 - 04:48 AM' timestamp='1295671689' post='1181514']
Let's hear it for Bobeggy for creating this thread! And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter. This all started when he posted his discovery that 1. Samsung supports checkerboard, and 2. Here's how to defeat the downresing of crippled 3D Vision to allow for full strength 3D gaming. I would have never understood this issue, nor the fix. Like most, I would have accepted the sad state of affairs and been resentful. Thanks to Nobsi, I will be gaming in 3D nirvana. Here's to you, Nobsi!
As a Samsung 1.4 owner I totally agree. Thanks to all that brought this up. Good luck with getting nvidia to go along, though. Samsung rules!
[quote]And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter[/quote]
Thanks for the flowers /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
[b]To Andrew:[/b]
[quote]You were using the NVIDIA 3D Vision Glasses with which TV though?[/quote]
I had an older HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung with 1366x768 resolution in checkerboard mode and 3D sync out port. 3D vision worked beautiful with it.
Then upgraded to a full HD Samsung of the actual product line (HDMI 1.4) to get higher 3D resolution (1080p) and was suddenly limited to a bader 3D resolution (720p) than I had previously.
I actually solved my problem with the 2 hardware hacks described previously in this thread, but I know this is not a solution for everyone as it requires some special skills and money.
So it would be nice if at least checkerboard would be accessible without these hacks. It's all already in the drivers. It requires just your decision to make it available for HDMI 1.4 TVs.
As many TV manufactures have stated they wont make TVs that support 1080p@60Hz frame packing in the foreseeable future, so 1080p@60Hz checkerboard is the very best gaming mode for years to come. Please support ist!
And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter
Thanks for the flowers /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
To Andrew:
You were using the NVIDIA 3D Vision Glasses with which TV though?
I had an older HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung with 1366x768 resolution in checkerboard mode and 3D sync out port. 3D vision worked beautiful with it.
Then upgraded to a full HD Samsung of the actual product line (HDMI 1.4) to get higher 3D resolution (1080p) and was suddenly limited to a bader 3D resolution (720p) than I had previously.
I actually solved my problem with the 2 hardware hacks described previously in this thread, but I know this is not a solution for everyone as it requires some special skills and money.
So it would be nice if at least checkerboard would be accessible without these hacks. It's all already in the drivers. It requires just your decision to make it available for HDMI 1.4 TVs.
As many TV manufactures have stated they wont make TVs that support 1080p@60Hz frame packing in the foreseeable future, so 1080p@60Hz checkerboard is the very best gaming mode for years to come. Please support ist!
Andrew,
A potential misunderstanding occured to me. As stated, Samsung HDMI1.4 TVs come from the factory with checkerboard disabled by default (it's there, but the top three modes are grayed out) . The enabling is done from 'main menu' > 'input' > 'edit name' > 'DVI PC'. This is a one time operation. Once enabled, the TV permanently gives access to all modes. This procedure need not be done every time a game is launched.
A potential misunderstanding occured to me. As stated, Samsung HDMI1.4 TVs come from the factory with checkerboard disabled by default (it's there, but the top three modes are grayed out) . The enabling is done from 'main menu' > 'input' > 'edit name' > 'DVI PC'. This is a one time operation. Once enabled, the TV permanently gives access to all modes. This procedure need not be done every time a game is launched.
It will be interesting to see if 3D vision checkerboard on HDMI 1.4 LCD/Plasma is even possible.
Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
It will be interesting to see if 3D vision checkerboard on HDMI 1.4 LCD/Plasma is even possible.
Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
[quote name='disolitude' date='22 January 2011 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1295713822' post='1181732']
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
[/quote]
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
[quote name='disolitude' date='22 January 2011 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1295713822' post='1181732']
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
[quote name='RB19' date='22 January 2011 - 09:48 AM' timestamp='1295714919' post='1181743']
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
[/quote] My question too. Now that we know the reason behind marketing's decision to castrate 3D Vision on HDMI1.4 TVs, we know the same reason applies to 3DTV Play, they should fix 3DTV Play as well. Andrew has some hang up about automatic mode switching, so it may take a lot to over come his natural bias against losing this capability.
[quote name='RB19' date='22 January 2011 - 09:48 AM' timestamp='1295714919' post='1181743']
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
My question too. Now that we know the reason behind marketing's decision to castrate 3D Vision on HDMI1.4 TVs, we know the same reason applies to 3DTV Play, they should fix 3DTV Play as well. Andrew has some hang up about automatic mode switching, so it may take a lot to over come his natural bias against losing this capability.
[quote name='disolitude' date='22 January 2011 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1295713822' post='1181732']
It will be interesting to see if 3D vision checkerboard on HDMI 1.4 LCD/Plasma is even possible.[/quote] Of course it's possible, many people are doing just that now. You must use the TVs glasses, but you're going to have the glasses anyway if you bought the TV.
[quote]Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.[/quote]Right, so you use the TVs glasses, no need for a sync port or nvidia glasses.
The biggest disservice Nvidia marketing perpetrated on their customers was excluding all the HDMI1.4 TVs that came out last spring. In effect, Nvidia was saying "all those desirable 50-63" displays won't do 3D gaming" but of course that wasn't true. So because of Nvidia's deception, I passed on the Samsungs and missed out on 6 months of 3D gaming. I played all the popular games in 2D instead of 3D Vision, an irreplaceable loss. Thanks a lot, nvidia.
[quote name='disolitude' date='22 January 2011 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1295713822' post='1181732']
It will be interesting to see if 3D vision checkerboard on HDMI 1.4 LCD/Plasma is even possible. Of course it's possible, many people are doing just that now. You must use the TVs glasses, but you're going to have the glasses anyway if you bought the TV.
Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.
Right, so you use the TVs glasses, no need for a sync port or nvidia glasses.
The biggest disservice Nvidia marketing perpetrated on their customers was excluding all the HDMI1.4 TVs that came out last spring. In effect, Nvidia was saying "all those desirable 50-63" displays won't do 3D gaming" but of course that wasn't true. So because of Nvidia's deception, I passed on the Samsungs and missed out on 6 months of 3D gaming. I played all the popular games in 2D instead of 3D Vision, an irreplaceable loss. Thanks a lot, nvidia.
[quote name='disolitude' date='22 January 2011 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1295713822' post='1181732']
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
[/quote]
That is exactly right. 3D Play is supposed to be "automatic". Both nVidia's driver and the TV switch to it automatically making things easier for the average use to just, well, game. The checkerboard mode is not an automatic mode, but it is an HDMI 1.4 standard mode, it is just considered optional, not a mandatory mode. But it is so superior to the two mandatory, frame packed modes, that having to engage it manually on both the PC and the TV is a small price to pay. Also, one would think the OEM glasses would give the best results, but hopefully nVidia will allow those who only have the 3D Vision glasses to keep using them, I don't see why they wouldn't.
Now we just have to psych up roller11 to petition the HDMI people to get the checkerboard format an automatic "flag" and the universe will be at peace. And thanks for the kind words roller11. /thanks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thanks:' />
[quote name='disolitude' date='22 January 2011 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1295713822' post='1181732']
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
That is exactly right. 3D Play is supposed to be "automatic". Both nVidia's driver and the TV switch to it automatically making things easier for the average use to just, well, game. The checkerboard mode is not an automatic mode, but it is an HDMI 1.4 standard mode, it is just considered optional, not a mandatory mode. But it is so superior to the two mandatory, frame packed modes, that having to engage it manually on both the PC and the TV is a small price to pay. Also, one would think the OEM glasses would give the best results, but hopefully nVidia will allow those who only have the 3D Vision glasses to keep using them, I don't see why they wouldn't.
Now we just have to psych up roller11 to petition the HDMI people to get the checkerboard format an automatic "flag" and the universe will be at peace. And thanks for the kind words roller11. /thanks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thanks:' />
LOL!!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
What you guys are asking for is logical and I hope NVIDIA is able to deliver, but it may be harder to do than it looks.
Because checkerboard is a user initiated 3d mode, and not automatic mode like every other 3d mode on the market, there is no way for 3d software to know what the TV is doing without a sync port or something similar which links the TV shuttering to the 3d base.
do tridef or iz3d checkerboard drivers support the Samsung hdmi 1.4 TVs that have checkerboard? If they do, there is no reason for NVIDIA not to.
What you guys are asking for is logical and I hope NVIDIA is able to deliver, but it may be harder to do than it looks.
Because checkerboard is a user initiated 3d mode, and not automatic mode like every other 3d mode on the market, there is no way for 3d software to know what the TV is doing without a sync port or something similar which links the TV shuttering to the 3d base.
do tridef or iz3d checkerboard drivers support the Samsung hdmi 1.4 TVs that have checkerboard? If they do, there is no reason for NVIDIA not to.
[quote name='roller11' date='22 January 2011 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1295744425' post='1181951']
LOL!!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
[/quote]
please do! i have been waiting for 1080p 3d projector or huge tv for way too long. i cant believe the mits DLP are still one of the best for 3d gaming. whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?
[quote name='roller11' date='22 January 2011 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1295744425' post='1181951']
LOL!!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
please do! i have been waiting for 1080p 3d projector or huge tv for way too long. i cant believe the mits DLP are still one of the best for 3d gaming. whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Its obvious Nvidia has no interest in actually providing the customer what they want. They would much rather attempt to monopolize the market, and restrict access to stereoscopic devices that users wish to use. Despite what Andrew claims, the whole 3D Vision thing is a racket. They charge these CEMs big bucks to "certify" their device with the Nvidia driver. Why do you think there was so many problems with Optoma and Viewsonic projectors that were known to be technically compatible with 3D, yet were actively blocked by the Nvidia driver? You think Nvidia added the support out of the kindness of their heart? The whole thing is a scam. I just really hope AMD or some third party can come in and compete and, if they can't, I'd like to see some anti-trust lawsuits. Nvidia is really on the edge of legality with what they are doing in this market. But its so niche at this point that no one really understands whats going on.
Its obvious Nvidia has no interest in actually providing the customer what they want. They would much rather attempt to monopolize the market, and restrict access to stereoscopic devices that users wish to use. Despite what Andrew claims, the whole 3D Vision thing is a racket. They charge these CEMs big bucks to "certify" their device with the Nvidia driver. Why do you think there was so many problems with Optoma and Viewsonic projectors that were known to be technically compatible with 3D, yet were actively blocked by the Nvidia driver? You think Nvidia added the support out of the kindness of their heart? The whole thing is a scam. I just really hope AMD or some third party can come in and compete and, if they can't, I'd like to see some anti-trust lawsuits. Nvidia is really on the edge of legality with what they are doing in this market. But its so niche at this point that no one really understands whats going on.
[quote]do tridef or iz3d checkerboard drivers support the Samsung hdmi 1.4 TVs that have checkerboard? [/quote]
Yes, both support checkerboard also for HDMI 1.4 HDTVs. I can use them alternatively to the nVidia 3D driver in 1080p checkerboard on my Samsung Plasma.
[quote]whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?[/quote]
The beauty of 1080p checkerboard is that it actually looks much better that you would suppose. It's hard to tell the difference between 1080p checkerboard and true 1080p 3D. The human brain can handle the checkerboard pattern very well and adds the missing information per view.
Second advantage is it uses the native HDTV resolution (1920x1080), so no upscaling anomalies do occur.
Third advantage is that you can switch to 2D on the fly (e.g. Ctrl+T hotkey with nVidia driver) and still have the full HD resolution.
Fourthly the checkerboard format is fully compatible with windowed 3D. iZ3D did support windowed 3D from the beginning. You can use a CAD or render program (which uses a Direct-X render engine, not OpenGL) with the render windows in 3D while the 2D rest of the screen (menus etc.) is still readable and not disorted. Also the mouse cursor keeps fully functional.
And last, 1080p checkerboard allows 60Hz gaming (60 FPS per eye), which is the minimum required for most game types to be playable.
do tridef or iz3d checkerboard drivers support the Samsung hdmi 1.4 TVs that have checkerboard?
Yes, both support checkerboard also for HDMI 1.4 HDTVs. I can use them alternatively to the nVidia 3D driver in 1080p checkerboard on my Samsung Plasma.
whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?
The beauty of 1080p checkerboard is that it actually looks much better that you would suppose. It's hard to tell the difference between 1080p checkerboard and true 1080p 3D. The human brain can handle the checkerboard pattern very well and adds the missing information per view.
Second advantage is it uses the native HDTV resolution (1920x1080), so no upscaling anomalies do occur.
Third advantage is that you can switch to 2D on the fly (e.g. Ctrl+T hotkey with nVidia driver) and still have the full HD resolution.
Fourthly the checkerboard format is fully compatible with windowed 3D. iZ3D did support windowed 3D from the beginning. You can use a CAD or render program (which uses a Direct-X render engine, not OpenGL) with the render windows in 3D while the 2D rest of the screen (menus etc.) is still readable and not disorted. Also the mouse cursor keeps fully functional.
And last, 1080p checkerboard allows 60Hz gaming (60 FPS per eye), which is the minimum required for most game types to be playable.
First thank you for taking the time to listen to us.
My way of explaining it would be to allow the user to engage checkerboard mode on any TV that supports it. It simply is the best mode for gaming. I agree with the others that this is so important, that having to manually place the TV into checkerboard mode is a non issue.
We also want to be able to accomplish this using the TV manufacturers glasses as many new sets don't have the emitter port to drive the nVidia glasses and it also just makes things easier all around.
All of this started because my Mitsubishi WD-73838 used to be an HDMI 1.3 set and worked beautifully with checkerboard. Then Mitsubishi "pushed" down a firmware update that upgraded the set to HDMI 1.4 and sadly, your drivers stopped outputting checkerboard mode to it, only 720p/60.
Hope this helps and thanks again.
First thank you for taking the time to listen to us.
My way of explaining it would be to allow the user to engage checkerboard mode on any TV that supports it. It simply is the best mode for gaming. I agree with the others that this is so important, that having to manually place the TV into checkerboard mode is a non issue.
We also want to be able to accomplish this using the TV manufacturers glasses as many new sets don't have the emitter port to drive the nVidia glasses and it also just makes things easier all around.
All of this started because my Mitsubishi WD-73838 used to be an HDMI 1.3 set and worked beautifully with checkerboard. Then Mitsubishi "pushed" down a firmware update that upgraded the set to HDMI 1.4 and sadly, your drivers stopped outputting checkerboard mode to it, only 720p/60.
Hope this helps and thanks again.
Let's hear it for Bobeggy for creating this thread! And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter. This all started when he posted his discovery that 1. Samsung supports checkerboard, and 2. Here's how to defeat the downresing of crippled 3D Vision to allow for full strength 3D gaming. I would have never understood this issue, nor the fix. Like most, I would have accepted the sad state of affairs and been resentful. Thanks to Nobsi, I will be gaming in 3D nirvana. Here's to you, Nobsi!
[/quote]
As a Samsung 1.4 owner I totally agree. Thanks to all that brought this up. Good luck with getting nvidia to go along, though. Samsung rules!
Let's hear it for Bobeggy for creating this thread! And for those who don't already know, Nobsi is the real hero in this matter. This all started when he posted his discovery that 1. Samsung supports checkerboard, and 2. Here's how to defeat the downresing of crippled 3D Vision to allow for full strength 3D gaming. I would have never understood this issue, nor the fix. Like most, I would have accepted the sad state of affairs and been resentful. Thanks to Nobsi, I will be gaming in 3D nirvana. Here's to you, Nobsi!
As a Samsung 1.4 owner I totally agree. Thanks to all that brought this up. Good luck with getting nvidia to go along, though. Samsung rules!
Thanks for the flowers
[b]To Andrew:[/b]
[quote]You were using the NVIDIA 3D Vision Glasses with which TV though?[/quote]
I had an older HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung with 1366x768 resolution in checkerboard mode and 3D sync out port. 3D vision worked beautiful with it.
Then upgraded to a full HD Samsung of the actual product line (HDMI 1.4) to get higher 3D resolution (1080p) and was suddenly limited to a bader 3D resolution (720p) than I had previously.
I actually solved my problem with the 2 hardware hacks described previously in this thread, but I know this is not a solution for everyone as it requires some special skills and money.
So it would be nice if at least checkerboard would be accessible without these hacks. It's all already in the drivers. It requires just your decision to make it available for HDMI 1.4 TVs.
As many TV manufactures have stated they wont make TVs that support 1080p@60Hz frame packing in the foreseeable future, so 1080p@60Hz checkerboard is the very best gaming mode for years to come. Please support ist!
Thanks for the flowers
To Andrew:
I had an older HDMI 1.3 3D ready Samsung with 1366x768 resolution in checkerboard mode and 3D sync out port. 3D vision worked beautiful with it.
Then upgraded to a full HD Samsung of the actual product line (HDMI 1.4) to get higher 3D resolution (1080p) and was suddenly limited to a bader 3D resolution (720p) than I had previously.
I actually solved my problem with the 2 hardware hacks described previously in this thread, but I know this is not a solution for everyone as it requires some special skills and money.
So it would be nice if at least checkerboard would be accessible without these hacks. It's all already in the drivers. It requires just your decision to make it available for HDMI 1.4 TVs.
As many TV manufactures have stated they wont make TVs that support 1080p@60Hz frame packing in the foreseeable future, so 1080p@60Hz checkerboard is the very best gaming mode for years to come. Please support ist!
A potential misunderstanding occured to me. As stated, Samsung HDMI1.4 TVs come from the factory with checkerboard disabled by default (it's there, but the top three modes are grayed out) . The enabling is done from 'main menu' > 'input' > 'edit name' > 'DVI PC'. This is a one time operation. Once enabled, the TV permanently gives access to all modes. This procedure need not be done every time a game is launched.
A potential misunderstanding occured to me. As stated, Samsung HDMI1.4 TVs come from the factory with checkerboard disabled by default (it's there, but the top three modes are grayed out) . The enabling is done from 'main menu' > 'input' > 'edit name' > 'DVI PC'. This is a one time operation. Once enabled, the TV permanently gives access to all modes. This procedure need not be done every time a game is launched.
Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
[/quote]
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
[/quote] My question too. Now that we know the reason behind marketing's decision to castrate 3D Vision on HDMI1.4 TVs, we know the same reason applies to 3DTV Play, they should fix 3DTV Play as well. Andrew has some hang up about automatic mode switching, so it may take a lot to over come his natural bias against losing this capability.
Yep, I just hope that they enable it on both 3dvision and 3dtvplay - I really would be gutted if it only worked on 3dvision as I have purchased 3dtvplay.
My question too. Now that we know the reason behind marketing's decision to castrate 3D Vision on HDMI1.4 TVs, we know the same reason applies to 3DTV Play, they should fix 3DTV Play as well. Andrew has some hang up about automatic mode switching, so it may take a lot to over come his natural bias against losing this capability.
It will be interesting to see if 3D vision checkerboard on HDMI 1.4 LCD/Plasma is even possible.[/quote] Of course it's possible, many people are doing just that now. You must use the TVs glasses, but you're going to have the glasses anyway if you bought the TV.
[quote]Before HDMI 1.4, every checkerboard supported DLP/plasma TV has had 3D sync port which glasses had to use to sync up. The main reason why you couldn't use 3D vision at all on these new HDMI 1.4 TVs before 3DTV came out is because there was no way for 3D vision glasses to sync up with the display.[/quote]Right, so you use the TVs glasses, no need for a sync port or nvidia glasses.
The biggest disservice Nvidia marketing perpetrated on their customers was excluding all the HDMI1.4 TVs that came out last spring. In effect, Nvidia was saying "all those desirable 50-63" displays won't do 3D gaming" but of course that wasn't true. So because of Nvidia's deception, I passed on the Samsungs and missed out on 6 months of 3D gaming. I played all the popular games in 2D instead of 3D Vision, an irreplaceable loss. Thanks a lot, nvidia.
It will be interesting to see if 3D vision checkerboard on HDMI 1.4 LCD/Plasma is even possible. Of course it's possible, many people are doing just that now. You must use the TVs glasses, but you're going to have the glasses anyway if you bought the TV.
Right, so you use the TVs glasses, no need for a sync port or nvidia glasses.
The biggest disservice Nvidia marketing perpetrated on their customers was excluding all the HDMI1.4 TVs that came out last spring. In effect, Nvidia was saying "all those desirable 50-63" displays won't do 3D gaming" but of course that wasn't true. So because of Nvidia's deception, I passed on the Samsungs and missed out on 6 months of 3D gaming. I played all the popular games in 2D instead of 3D Vision, an irreplaceable loss. Thanks a lot, nvidia.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
[/quote]
That is exactly right. 3D Play is supposed to be "automatic". Both nVidia's driver and the TV switch to it automatically making things easier for the average use to just, well, game. The checkerboard mode is not an automatic mode, but it is an HDMI 1.4 standard mode, it is just considered optional, not a mandatory mode. But it is so superior to the two mandatory, frame packed modes, that having to engage it manually on both the PC and the TV is a small price to pay. Also, one would think the OEM glasses would give the best results, but hopefully nVidia will allow those who only have the 3D Vision glasses to keep using them, I don't see why they wouldn't.
Now we just have to psych up roller11 to petition the HDMI people to get the checkerboard format an automatic "flag" and the universe will be at peace. And thanks for the kind words roller11.
You guys seem to be looking for some 3D vision/3DTV play hybrid driver...a driver which supports TV manufacturer glasses(3DTV), but also allows non HDMI 1.4 standard checkerboard to be selected by the user(3D Vision).
That is exactly right. 3D Play is supposed to be "automatic". Both nVidia's driver and the TV switch to it automatically making things easier for the average use to just, well, game. The checkerboard mode is not an automatic mode, but it is an HDMI 1.4 standard mode, it is just considered optional, not a mandatory mode. But it is so superior to the two mandatory, frame packed modes, that having to engage it manually on both the PC and the TV is a small price to pay. Also, one would think the OEM glasses would give the best results, but hopefully nVidia will allow those who only have the 3D Vision glasses to keep using them, I don't see why they wouldn't.
Now we just have to psych up roller11 to petition the HDMI people to get the checkerboard format an automatic "flag" and the universe will be at peace. And thanks for the kind words roller11.
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
What you guys are asking for is logical and I hope NVIDIA is able to deliver, but it may be harder to do than it looks.
Because checkerboard is a user initiated 3d mode, and not automatic mode like every other 3d mode on the market, there is no way for 3d software to know what the TV is doing without a sync port or something similar which links the TV shuttering to the 3d base.
do tridef or iz3d checkerboard drivers support the Samsung hdmi 1.4 TVs that have checkerboard? If they do, there is no reason for NVIDIA not to.
What you guys are asking for is logical and I hope NVIDIA is able to deliver, but it may be harder to do than it looks.
Because checkerboard is a user initiated 3d mode, and not automatic mode like every other 3d mode on the market, there is no way for 3d software to know what the TV is doing without a sync port or something similar which links the TV shuttering to the 3d base.
do tridef or iz3d checkerboard drivers support the Samsung hdmi 1.4 TVs that have checkerboard? If they do, there is no reason for NVIDIA not to.
LOL!!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
[/quote]
please do! i have been waiting for 1080p 3d projector or huge tv for way too long. i cant believe the mits DLP are still one of the best for 3d gaming. whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?
LOL!!
Well, I'm busy right now trying to bully the TV makers into equiping their HDTVs with a dual link DVI input so we can do full 1920x1080/60 frame packing 3D gaming. That would be better use of my talents!
please do! i have been waiting for 1080p 3d projector or huge tv for way too long. i cant believe the mits DLP are still one of the best for 3d gaming. whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Samsung 65D8000
check my blog - cybereality.com
Yes, both support checkerboard also for HDMI 1.4 HDTVs. I can use them alternatively to the nVidia 3D driver in 1080p checkerboard on my Samsung Plasma.
[quote]whats the point of all these fast computers if we are stuck with 720p or checkerboard half rez?[/quote]
The beauty of 1080p checkerboard is that it actually looks much better that you would suppose. It's hard to tell the difference between 1080p checkerboard and true 1080p 3D. The human brain can handle the checkerboard pattern very well and adds the missing information per view.
Second advantage is it uses the native HDTV resolution (1920x1080), so no upscaling anomalies do occur.
Third advantage is that you can switch to 2D on the fly (e.g. Ctrl+T hotkey with nVidia driver) and still have the full HD resolution.
Fourthly the checkerboard format is fully compatible with windowed 3D. iZ3D did support windowed 3D from the beginning. You can use a CAD or render program (which uses a Direct-X render engine, not OpenGL) with the render windows in 3D while the 2D rest of the screen (menus etc.) is still readable and not disorted. Also the mouse cursor keeps fully functional.
And last, 1080p checkerboard allows 60Hz gaming (60 FPS per eye), which is the minimum required for most game types to be playable.
Yes, both support checkerboard also for HDMI 1.4 HDTVs. I can use them alternatively to the nVidia 3D driver in 1080p checkerboard on my Samsung Plasma.
The beauty of 1080p checkerboard is that it actually looks much better that you would suppose. It's hard to tell the difference between 1080p checkerboard and true 1080p 3D. The human brain can handle the checkerboard pattern very well and adds the missing information per view.
Second advantage is it uses the native HDTV resolution (1920x1080), so no upscaling anomalies do occur.
Third advantage is that you can switch to 2D on the fly (e.g. Ctrl+T hotkey with nVidia driver) and still have the full HD resolution.
Fourthly the checkerboard format is fully compatible with windowed 3D. iZ3D did support windowed 3D from the beginning. You can use a CAD or render program (which uses a Direct-X render engine, not OpenGL) with the render windows in 3D while the 2D rest of the screen (menus etc.) is still readable and not disorted. Also the mouse cursor keeps fully functional.
And last, 1080p checkerboard allows 60Hz gaming (60 FPS per eye), which is the minimum required for most game types to be playable.