[quote="Pirateguybrush"]@eqzitara - I have headphones for the rift. The speakers are for video and non-rift games. :)
@Volnaiskra - I don't really have the space for a sound card under my SLI 770s (I think, have to check). Is a USB amplifier like that going to make a significant difference? That costs almost as much as the speakers I'm looking at.[/quote]
Depending on if your getting a HDMI enabled receiver or not, you might want to look into a "HDMI sound splitter". Your GTX500+ card has 5.1/7.1 sound over HDMI built into it - the only problem is accessing it. (if you get a HDMI enabled receiver then you don't need a "splitter")
When I was using the TV in the living room my HTPC was just routed through a newer HDMI enabled receiver and with the right edit of a EDID file it was a single cable solution.
Trouble was when I setup the home theater/gaming room I used an older model which does not have HDMI pass through. This is where the "splitter" comes in. You can grab the 5.1 sound output from your GTX card and optically hook it to your receiver and enjoy turning around in games and having the sound move around your room.
I'm not sure of what might be available in your area but often times there are Pioneer 5.1 speaker sets sold around here for ~100$, catch a cheap 5.1 receiver for < 300$ and your good to go. I see lots of blueray+soundsystem kits at the local electronics stores that won't break your budget. Then you can watch movies without running your computer.
(the very long +20' HDMI cables are very stiff and I already broke one while moving my system. Having a shorter, thinner and more flexible cable between your computer and something else might save you the 35$ I had to spend on a replacement.)
Pirateguybrush said:@eqzitara - I have headphones for the rift. The speakers are for video and non-rift games. :)
@Volnaiskra - I don't really have the space for a sound card under my SLI 770s (I think, have to check). Is a USB amplifier like that going to make a significant difference? That costs almost as much as the speakers I'm looking at.
Depending on if your getting a HDMI enabled receiver or not, you might want to look into a "HDMI sound splitter". Your GTX500+ card has 5.1/7.1 sound over HDMI built into it - the only problem is accessing it. (if you get a HDMI enabled receiver then you don't need a "splitter")
When I was using the TV in the living room my HTPC was just routed through a newer HDMI enabled receiver and with the right edit of a EDID file it was a single cable solution.
Trouble was when I setup the home theater/gaming room I used an older model which does not have HDMI pass through. This is where the "splitter" comes in. You can grab the 5.1 sound output from your GTX card and optically hook it to your receiver and enjoy turning around in games and having the sound move around your room.
I'm not sure of what might be available in your area but often times there are Pioneer 5.1 speaker sets sold around here for ~100$, catch a cheap 5.1 receiver for < 300$ and your good to go. I see lots of blueray+soundsystem kits at the local electronics stores that won't break your budget. Then you can watch movies without running your computer.
(the very long +20' HDMI cables are very stiff and I already broke one while moving my system. Having a shorter, thinner and more flexible cable between your computer and something else might save you the 35$ I had to spend on a replacement.)
The projector is in the back of the room, the receiver will be in front, and the PC will be in the rear left corner. To run HDMI the whole way I'd need to run HDMI to the front of the room, then around to the back. I can't see that being good for signal quality or input lag, especially as I'd need to go more than 10m to get from receiver to projector.
Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front, and (separately) HDMI to the projector,. Each cable will be around 10m, and from what I've been reading I won't be missing much with optical unless I'm running an extremely high-end system with very high quality source audio. It also simplifies the EDID hack (I think?).
How does that sound?
The projector is in the back of the room, the receiver will be in front, and the PC will be in the rear left corner. To run HDMI the whole way I'd need to run HDMI to the front of the room, then around to the back. I can't see that being good for signal quality or input lag, especially as I'd need to go more than 10m to get from receiver to projector.
Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front, and (separately) HDMI to the projector,. Each cable will be around 10m, and from what I've been reading I won't be missing much with optical unless I'm running an extremely high-end system with very high quality source audio. It also simplifies the EDID hack (I think?).
Should be fine either way. Both optical and HDMI are digital signals, and thus are not prone to normal degradation. Max usable distance on HDMI is roughly 45 feet, maybe 15 meters. Don't use cheap ass cables, they are never a good value.
[url]http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/how-long-can-hdmi-run.htm?hdmiinfo[/url]
Optical can travel farther, easier and cheaper, so doing optical first is probably good. However, if you are converting from optical to HDMI you'll need a much better amp, as most low end amps don't transcode signals, they don't have the horsepower.
There would not seem to be much advantage to running everything to the amp as a hub. With PC and projector close to each other, it makes more sense to use a shorter HDMI cable there, with an optical out to the amp in front. That would work fine for gaming as the audio output is selectable, but I'm guessing might cause a problem because of the stupid copy protected blu-ray stuff.
Should be fine either way. Both optical and HDMI are digital signals, and thus are not prone to normal degradation. Max usable distance on HDMI is roughly 45 feet, maybe 15 meters. Don't use cheap ass cables, they are never a good value.
Optical can travel farther, easier and cheaper, so doing optical first is probably good. However, if you are converting from optical to HDMI you'll need a much better amp, as most low end amps don't transcode signals, they don't have the horsepower.
There would not seem to be much advantage to running everything to the amp as a hub. With PC and projector close to each other, it makes more sense to use a shorter HDMI cable there, with an optical out to the amp in front. That would work fine for gaming as the audio output is selectable, but I'm guessing might cause a problem because of the stupid copy protected blu-ray stuff.
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[i]the receiver will be in front[/i]
I don't know your room, but I don't see a good reason for this. If possible, set it close to your PC/projector.
[i]Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front[/i]
This will work, but keep in mind that optical has less audio bandwidth than HDMI. You can't get lossless "high definition" audio such as DTS-HD or lossless 5.1 PCM. The best you can get is lossy DVD quality Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 (and I don't know how you'd get that out of your PC games without a special sound card or software), or lossless 2.0 audio.
I don't know your room, but I don't see a good reason for this. If possible, set it close to your PC/projector.
Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front
This will work, but keep in mind that optical has less audio bandwidth than HDMI. You can't get lossless "high definition" audio such as DTS-HD or lossless 5.1 PCM. The best you can get is lossy DVD quality Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 (and I don't know how you'd get that out of your PC games without a special sound card or software), or lossless 2.0 audio.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]The projector is in the back of the room, the receiver will be in front, and the PC will be in the rear left corner. To run HDMI the whole way I'd need to run HDMI to the front of the room, then around to the back. I can't see that being good for signal quality or input lag, especially as I'd need to go more than 10m to get from receiver to projector.
Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front, and (separately) HDMI to the projector,. Each cable will be around 10m, and from what I've been reading I won't be missing much with optical unless I'm running an extremely high-end system with very high quality source audio. It also simplifies the EDID hack (I think?).
How does that sound?[/quote]
When it comes to HDMI a 2' cable has as much 'lag' as a 25' cable. No worries there.
YMMV: Not having 5.1 sound is a deal breaker for me. Stereo just does not cut it anymore.
Many motherboards and sound cards will output Stereo sound over optical and some will even pass on Dolby/DTS encoded 5.1/7.1 from a DVD/Blueray but won't present to Window's applications/games a multichannel "sink" for them to make use of (some cards will on the fly "up convert" to 5.1/7.1 from the Stereo "sink" provided to Windows).
To get true multichannel sound while gaming the choices are: multiple analog audio cables from the PC-to-Receiver, multichannel over HDMI passed through the receiver (via your fairly modern GTX card) or using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.
Pirateguybrush said:The projector is in the back of the room, the receiver will be in front, and the PC will be in the rear left corner. To run HDMI the whole way I'd need to run HDMI to the front of the room, then around to the back. I can't see that being good for signal quality or input lag, especially as I'd need to go more than 10m to get from receiver to projector.
Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front, and (separately) HDMI to the projector,. Each cable will be around 10m, and from what I've been reading I won't be missing much with optical unless I'm running an extremely high-end system with very high quality source audio. It also simplifies the EDID hack (I think?).
How does that sound?
When it comes to HDMI a 2' cable has as much 'lag' as a 25' cable. No worries there.
YMMV: Not having 5.1 sound is a deal breaker for me. Stereo just does not cut it anymore.
Many motherboards and sound cards will output Stereo sound over optical and some will even pass on Dolby/DTS encoded 5.1/7.1 from a DVD/Blueray but won't present to Window's applications/games a multichannel "sink" for them to make use of (some cards will on the fly "up convert" to 5.1/7.1 from the Stereo "sink" provided to Windows).
To get true multichannel sound while gaming the choices are: multiple analog audio cables from the PC-to-Receiver, multichannel over HDMI passed through the receiver (via your fairly modern GTX card) or using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.
[quote="mbloof"]To get true multichannel sound while gaming...using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.[/quote]
Wouldn't optical present a bottleneck? HDMI has more audio bandwidth than optical unless I'm severely mistaken. Hijacking audio from HDMI to optical wouldn't be any better than what the PC could directly transport through optical.
mbloof said:To get true multichannel sound while gaming...using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.
Wouldn't optical present a bottleneck? HDMI has more audio bandwidth than optical unless I'm severely mistaken. Hijacking audio from HDMI to optical wouldn't be any better than what the PC could directly transport through optical.
When I use my projector, I go optical to my receiver in the lounge for audio and HDMI straight to my projector for video.
When gaming on my monitors, I go multichannel analogue 7.1 from my sound card (X-Fi) to a separate Onkyo home theatre receiver that I bought 2nd hand. This will (potentially) give better sound than any pc speaker based solution.
I have a soundblaster x-fi and purchased the additional DTS-Connect/Dolby Digital Live addon for hardly anything.
Some of the realtek motherboard based soundcards (ALC889?) can encode to DTS/Dolby, as can the mid range Xonar sound cards. It still sounds great, although they are not truly lossless like the DTS Master audio and dolby equivalent that you'd get from a blu-ray over HDMI.
Look up DTS Connect/Dolby digital, as they will output proper encoded 5.1 over optical/coax from all games/apps etc.
When I use my projector, I go optical to my receiver in the lounge for audio and HDMI straight to my projector for video.
When gaming on my monitors, I go multichannel analogue 7.1 from my sound card (X-Fi) to a separate Onkyo home theatre receiver that I bought 2nd hand. This will (potentially) give better sound than any pc speaker based solution.
I have a soundblaster x-fi and purchased the additional DTS-Connect/Dolby Digital Live addon for hardly anything.
Some of the realtek motherboard based soundcards (ALC889?) can encode to DTS/Dolby, as can the mid range Xonar sound cards. It still sounds great, although they are not truly lossless like the DTS Master audio and dolby equivalent that you'd get from a blu-ray over HDMI.
Look up DTS Connect/Dolby digital, as they will output proper encoded 5.1 over optical/coax from all games/apps etc.
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[quote="Airion"][quote="mbloof"]To get true multichannel sound while gaming...using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.[/quote]
Wouldn't optical present a bottleneck? HDMI has more audio bandwidth than optical unless I'm severely mistaken. Hijacking audio from HDMI to optical wouldn't be any better than what the PC could directly transport through optical.[/quote]
While the 'Sony+Phillips' (SP-DIFF) interface was designed to handle only a Stereo signal digital technology has evolved orders of magnitude beyond it but we still have the same jacks+cables.
Granted an 'audiophile' would balk at anything 'digital' or involving 'compression', most normal people are perfectly happy with even lower resolution MP3 and iTunes downloads and my ears enjoyed way to many loud rock/fusion concerts in my youth to notice the difference.
This is how I got 5.1 sound out of my: PS3, DVD/3DBlueray player and from my TV to the HTReceiver via a SP-DIFF optical (or 'digital coax') cable. Its ether Dolby or DTS encoded/encrypted/compressed so there's arguably some loss of sound quality before the signal even hits the cable (some sources allow you to set the sample rate - to high and your restricted to 5.1 or even Stereo) however if HDMI pass thorough is not an option and you'd really rather not have 3x6-12' 3.5MM jack stereo audio cables routed from your PC to your HTReceiver the effort to get 'enveloped' in sound IMHO is totally worth it.
When it comes to games plain Stereo sound just does not do it for me anymore. When you turn your camera/view point on the screen and the game sounds turns with you it's just that much more realistic not to miss out on.
mbloof said:To get true multichannel sound while gaming...using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.
Wouldn't optical present a bottleneck? HDMI has more audio bandwidth than optical unless I'm severely mistaken. Hijacking audio from HDMI to optical wouldn't be any better than what the PC could directly transport through optical.
While the 'Sony+Phillips' (SP-DIFF) interface was designed to handle only a Stereo signal digital technology has evolved orders of magnitude beyond it but we still have the same jacks+cables.
Granted an 'audiophile' would balk at anything 'digital' or involving 'compression', most normal people are perfectly happy with even lower resolution MP3 and iTunes downloads and my ears enjoyed way to many loud rock/fusion concerts in my youth to notice the difference.
This is how I got 5.1 sound out of my: PS3, DVD/3DBlueray player and from my TV to the HTReceiver via a SP-DIFF optical (or 'digital coax') cable. Its ether Dolby or DTS encoded/encrypted/compressed so there's arguably some loss of sound quality before the signal even hits the cable (some sources allow you to set the sample rate - to high and your restricted to 5.1 or even Stereo) however if HDMI pass thorough is not an option and you'd really rather not have 3x6-12' 3.5MM jack stereo audio cables routed from your PC to your HTReceiver the effort to get 'enveloped' in sound IMHO is totally worth it.
When it comes to games plain Stereo sound just does not do it for me anymore. When you turn your camera/view point on the screen and the game sounds turns with you it's just that much more realistic not to miss out on.
For my part I just wouldn't recommend optical if you have the equipment for HDMI audio. It's lossy compressed vs uncompressed, simple as that. I would move the receiver to accommodate it if at all possible.
For my part I just wouldn't recommend optical if you have the equipment for HDMI audio. It's lossy compressed vs uncompressed, simple as that. I would move the receiver to accommodate it if at all possible.
From what I read, the main difference between optical and HDMI is the support of a few extra codecs, which shouldn't have a huge impact on audio quality.
Moving the receiver isn't really an option, as it makes cabling speakers much more complicated.
I set it up the way I was talking about (optical from motherboard for audio, hdmi for video). However I encountered a problem. I have no way to view video from the receiver. I thought of this and initially figured I'd just plug it in to a monitor for initial setup, then forget about it - however while testing I accidentally hit a button that killed audio, and couldn't figure out how to bring it back. It was only when I plugged in a monitor again that I could navigate back to where it needed to be. This experience has taught me that I'm going to need video from the receiver to be more easily accessible than previously thought. To that end, I'm going to run 10m HDMI around to the receiver, then another 15 from the receiver (around the room in the other direction) to the projector. This will allow me to display the receiver's output on the projector screen, as well as carry audio over HDMI.
From what I read, the main difference between optical and HDMI is the support of a few extra codecs, which shouldn't have a huge impact on audio quality.
Moving the receiver isn't really an option, as it makes cabling speakers much more complicated.
I set it up the way I was talking about (optical from motherboard for audio, hdmi for video). However I encountered a problem. I have no way to view video from the receiver. I thought of this and initially figured I'd just plug it in to a monitor for initial setup, then forget about it - however while testing I accidentally hit a button that killed audio, and couldn't figure out how to bring it back. It was only when I plugged in a monitor again that I could navigate back to where it needed to be. This experience has taught me that I'm going to need video from the receiver to be more easily accessible than previously thought. To that end, I'm going to run 10m HDMI around to the receiver, then another 15 from the receiver (around the room in the other direction) to the projector. This will allow me to display the receiver's output on the projector screen, as well as carry audio over HDMI.
This thread echoes the last few days I've had with my projector, receiver and 25m of HDMI cables :-(
I mounted my Acer 5360BD on the ceiling and routed the 15m HDMI cable and mains through the roof and down into the back of my receiver at the front of the room, with a 2nd HDMI 10m cable between the receiver and my PC at the back corner of the room, and the image is shockingly bad :-(
All the brightness and contrast are gone, and with my non-existent knowledge of editing EDID overrides I can't get the Denon receiver to route anything except stereo audio and Red Cyan 3D Discover.
Now I will just have to accept optical audio for my blu rays and run a shorter HDMI cable between the projector and PC, or buy a separate 3D blu ray player if I want to use the lossless DTS and DD formats for films.
This thread echoes the last few days I've had with my projector, receiver and 25m of HDMI cables :-(
I mounted my Acer 5360BD on the ceiling and routed the 15m HDMI cable and mains through the roof and down into the back of my receiver at the front of the room, with a 2nd HDMI 10m cable between the receiver and my PC at the back corner of the room, and the image is shockingly bad :-(
All the brightness and contrast are gone, and with my non-existent knowledge of editing EDID overrides I can't get the Denon receiver to route anything except stereo audio and Red Cyan 3D Discover.
Now I will just have to accept optical audio for my blu rays and run a shorter HDMI cable between the projector and PC, or buy a separate 3D blu ray player if I want to use the lossless DTS and DD formats for films.
Wow, I don't know why you would get those problems, Foulplay99. Are you sure your receiver is 3D capable? If so, I would guess it's a problem of settings in your receiver or PC, and therefore fixable. The Acer shouldn't need an EDID override. I think the fact that you're getting a picture suggests that it's not the long HDMI cables, but if other troubleshooting doesn't work I would experiment with shorter cables to be sure.
Wow, I don't know why you would get those problems, Foulplay99. Are you sure your receiver is 3D capable? If so, I would guess it's a problem of settings in your receiver or PC, and therefore fixable. The Acer shouldn't need an EDID override. I think the fact that you're getting a picture suggests that it's not the long HDMI cables, but if other troubleshooting doesn't work I would experiment with shorter cables to be sure.
[quote="Foulplay99"]This thread echoes the last few days I've had with my projector, receiver and 25m of HDMI cables :-([/quote]
Sorry to hear that. I've used 25' and 50' cables I got at Homedepot (of all places) without issues. (except the cables are so thick that I broke the 50' one when I moved my PC - the weight of the cable itself broke the HDMI end that was going into a GTX card). (EGADS! 25M? My calculator equates that to 82 FEET!)
I have the HDMI+power routed to the side of the room where its a easy reach to the front (where the receiver is - while IR tends to bounce around the room pointing the remote actually AT something is more intuitive then counting on reflections.
How big of a image did you go with? Are you controlling ambient light? Have you tried it with a shorter cable? (one of the AVI sites has a brightness calculator that you can use to figure optimum screen size+distance. I started with 70" then went to +120" and finally settled on 96" as the optimum tradeoff for me in brightness and size)
I ordered one of those $40USD "HDMI Sound Splitters" this weekend and it ought to be here next week. This will allow me to run a short (IE:Very flexible) HDMI cable between the PC and the splitter and plug the thick/heavy 25'er into the splitter while loosing the 3X audio cables going from my PC to the HTReceiver. (for some reason using the analog outputs I can't get decent volume out of my center channel, very bothersome to me) I'll then use a 6' optical cable between the splitter and the HTReceiver.
I also ordered a DVI-D to HDMI adapter with the idea that with a EDID hack the GTX card might output via a DVI connector a non-frame-packed (top/bottom or L/R) 720P 3D signal or better and I might get even better picture quality out of it.
I'll report back how/if the two devices work out when they come in and I have a chance to play with them.
Foulplay99 said:This thread echoes the last few days I've had with my projector, receiver and 25m of HDMI cables :-(
Sorry to hear that. I've used 25' and 50' cables I got at Homedepot (of all places) without issues. (except the cables are so thick that I broke the 50' one when I moved my PC - the weight of the cable itself broke the HDMI end that was going into a GTX card). (EGADS! 25M? My calculator equates that to 82 FEET!)
I have the HDMI+power routed to the side of the room where its a easy reach to the front (where the receiver is - while IR tends to bounce around the room pointing the remote actually AT something is more intuitive then counting on reflections.
How big of a image did you go with? Are you controlling ambient light? Have you tried it with a shorter cable? (one of the AVI sites has a brightness calculator that you can use to figure optimum screen size+distance. I started with 70" then went to +120" and finally settled on 96" as the optimum tradeoff for me in brightness and size)
I ordered one of those $40USD "HDMI Sound Splitters" this weekend and it ought to be here next week. This will allow me to run a short (IE:Very flexible) HDMI cable between the PC and the splitter and plug the thick/heavy 25'er into the splitter while loosing the 3X audio cables going from my PC to the HTReceiver. (for some reason using the analog outputs I can't get decent volume out of my center channel, very bothersome to me) I'll then use a 6' optical cable between the splitter and the HTReceiver.
I also ordered a DVI-D to HDMI adapter with the idea that with a EDID hack the GTX card might output via a DVI connector a non-frame-packed (top/bottom or L/R) 720P 3D signal or better and I might get even better picture quality out of it.
I'll report back how/if the two devices work out when they come in and I have a chance to play with them.
My ZD302 glasses have arrived, and I've had about 20 minutes with them so far. The glasses seem great. No red tint or crosstalk, brightness isn't significantly affected, and no sync issues.
As for the image quality, the step down to 720p is noticeable but not too bad, however the image does appear somewhat washed out. I suspect this could be because I'm using a wall instead of a screen, and adjusting the contrast on the projector has already made a significant improvement. I imagine I can probably tweak it further.
My ZD302 glasses have arrived, and I've had about 20 minutes with them so far. The glasses seem great. No red tint or crosstalk, brightness isn't significantly affected, and no sync issues.
As for the image quality, the step down to 720p is noticeable but not too bad, however the image does appear somewhat washed out. I suspect this could be because I'm using a wall instead of a screen, and adjusting the contrast on the projector has already made a significant improvement. I imagine I can probably tweak it further.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]My ZD302 glasses have arrived, and I've had about 20 minutes with them so far. The glasses seem great. No red tint or crosstalk, brightness isn't significantly affected, and no sync issues.
As for the image quality, the step down to 720p is noticeable but not too bad, however the image does appear somewhat washed out. I suspect this could be because I'm using a wall instead of a screen, and adjusting the contrast on the projector has already made a significant improvement. I imagine I can probably tweak it further. [/quote]
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=371214
Give it a shot. I have to use all of my projectors with that full range rgb fix. Otherwise i get washed out colors in 3d. Some 2d resolutions also give limited rgb range. im not sure what triggers it, native resolution seems to work fine tho. 3dtv play 720p definitely triggers limited range rgb for me and results to a washed out look.
(btw tridef 1080p Top bottom mode looks better than 720p 3dtvplay. SBS also gives more resolution loss imo)
Pirateguybrush said:My ZD302 glasses have arrived, and I've had about 20 minutes with them so far. The glasses seem great. No red tint or crosstalk, brightness isn't significantly affected, and no sync issues.
As for the image quality, the step down to 720p is noticeable but not too bad, however the image does appear somewhat washed out. I suspect this could be because I'm using a wall instead of a screen, and adjusting the contrast on the projector has already made a significant improvement. I imagine I can probably tweak it further.
Give it a shot. I have to use all of my projectors with that full range rgb fix. Otherwise i get washed out colors in 3d. Some 2d resolutions also give limited rgb range. im not sure what triggers it, native resolution seems to work fine tho. 3dtv play 720p definitely triggers limited range rgb for me and results to a washed out look.
(btw tridef 1080p Top bottom mode looks better than 720p 3dtvplay. SBS also gives more resolution loss imo)
Depending on if your getting a HDMI enabled receiver or not, you might want to look into a "HDMI sound splitter". Your GTX500+ card has 5.1/7.1 sound over HDMI built into it - the only problem is accessing it. (if you get a HDMI enabled receiver then you don't need a "splitter")
When I was using the TV in the living room my HTPC was just routed through a newer HDMI enabled receiver and with the right edit of a EDID file it was a single cable solution.
Trouble was when I setup the home theater/gaming room I used an older model which does not have HDMI pass through. This is where the "splitter" comes in. You can grab the 5.1 sound output from your GTX card and optically hook it to your receiver and enjoy turning around in games and having the sound move around your room.
I'm not sure of what might be available in your area but often times there are Pioneer 5.1 speaker sets sold around here for ~100$, catch a cheap 5.1 receiver for < 300$ and your good to go. I see lots of blueray+soundsystem kits at the local electronics stores that won't break your budget. Then you can watch movies without running your computer.
(the very long +20' HDMI cables are very stiff and I already broke one while moving my system. Having a shorter, thinner and more flexible cable between your computer and something else might save you the 35$ I had to spend on a replacement.)
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Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front, and (separately) HDMI to the projector,. Each cable will be around 10m, and from what I've been reading I won't be missing much with optical unless I'm running an extremely high-end system with very high quality source audio. It also simplifies the EDID hack (I think?).
How does that sound?
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/how-long-can-hdmi-run.htm?hdmiinfo
Optical can travel farther, easier and cheaper, so doing optical first is probably good. However, if you are converting from optical to HDMI you'll need a much better amp, as most low end amps don't transcode signals, they don't have the horsepower.
There would not seem to be much advantage to running everything to the amp as a hub. With PC and projector close to each other, it makes more sense to use a shorter HDMI cable there, with an optical out to the amp in front. That would work fine for gaming as the audio output is selectable, but I'm guessing might cause a problem because of the stupid copy protected blu-ray stuff.
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Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I don't know your room, but I don't see a good reason for this. If possible, set it close to your PC/projector.
Instead, I'm thinking optical to the receiver at the front
This will work, but keep in mind that optical has less audio bandwidth than HDMI. You can't get lossless "high definition" audio such as DTS-HD or lossless 5.1 PCM. The best you can get is lossy DVD quality Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 (and I don't know how you'd get that out of your PC games without a special sound card or software), or lossless 2.0 audio.
When it comes to HDMI a 2' cable has as much 'lag' as a 25' cable. No worries there.
YMMV: Not having 5.1 sound is a deal breaker for me. Stereo just does not cut it anymore.
Many motherboards and sound cards will output Stereo sound over optical and some will even pass on Dolby/DTS encoded 5.1/7.1 from a DVD/Blueray but won't present to Window's applications/games a multichannel "sink" for them to make use of (some cards will on the fly "up convert" to 5.1/7.1 from the Stereo "sink" provided to Windows).
To get true multichannel sound while gaming the choices are: multiple analog audio cables from the PC-to-Receiver, multichannel over HDMI passed through the receiver (via your fairly modern GTX card) or using a HDMI 'audio splitter' which hijacks the HDMI audio signal and converts it to optical.
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Wouldn't optical present a bottleneck? HDMI has more audio bandwidth than optical unless I'm severely mistaken. Hijacking audio from HDMI to optical wouldn't be any better than what the PC could directly transport through optical.
When gaming on my monitors, I go multichannel analogue 7.1 from my sound card (X-Fi) to a separate Onkyo home theatre receiver that I bought 2nd hand. This will (potentially) give better sound than any pc speaker based solution.
I have a soundblaster x-fi and purchased the additional DTS-Connect/Dolby Digital Live addon for hardly anything.
Some of the realtek motherboard based soundcards (ALC889?) can encode to DTS/Dolby, as can the mid range Xonar sound cards. It still sounds great, although they are not truly lossless like the DTS Master audio and dolby equivalent that you'd get from a blu-ray over HDMI.
Look up DTS Connect/Dolby digital, as they will output proper encoded 5.1 over optical/coax from all games/apps etc.
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While the 'Sony+Phillips' (SP-DIFF) interface was designed to handle only a Stereo signal digital technology has evolved orders of magnitude beyond it but we still have the same jacks+cables.
Granted an 'audiophile' would balk at anything 'digital' or involving 'compression', most normal people are perfectly happy with even lower resolution MP3 and iTunes downloads and my ears enjoyed way to many loud rock/fusion concerts in my youth to notice the difference.
This is how I got 5.1 sound out of my: PS3, DVD/3DBlueray player and from my TV to the HTReceiver via a SP-DIFF optical (or 'digital coax') cable. Its ether Dolby or DTS encoded/encrypted/compressed so there's arguably some loss of sound quality before the signal even hits the cable (some sources allow you to set the sample rate - to high and your restricted to 5.1 or even Stereo) however if HDMI pass thorough is not an option and you'd really rather not have 3x6-12' 3.5MM jack stereo audio cables routed from your PC to your HTReceiver the effort to get 'enveloped' in sound IMHO is totally worth it.
When it comes to games plain Stereo sound just does not do it for me anymore. When you turn your camera/view point on the screen and the game sounds turns with you it's just that much more realistic not to miss out on.
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Moving the receiver isn't really an option, as it makes cabling speakers much more complicated.
I set it up the way I was talking about (optical from motherboard for audio, hdmi for video). However I encountered a problem. I have no way to view video from the receiver. I thought of this and initially figured I'd just plug it in to a monitor for initial setup, then forget about it - however while testing I accidentally hit a button that killed audio, and couldn't figure out how to bring it back. It was only when I plugged in a monitor again that I could navigate back to where it needed to be. This experience has taught me that I'm going to need video from the receiver to be more easily accessible than previously thought. To that end, I'm going to run 10m HDMI around to the receiver, then another 15 from the receiver (around the room in the other direction) to the projector. This will allow me to display the receiver's output on the projector screen, as well as carry audio over HDMI.
I mounted my Acer 5360BD on the ceiling and routed the 15m HDMI cable and mains through the roof and down into the back of my receiver at the front of the room, with a 2nd HDMI 10m cable between the receiver and my PC at the back corner of the room, and the image is shockingly bad :-(
All the brightness and contrast are gone, and with my non-existent knowledge of editing EDID overrides I can't get the Denon receiver to route anything except stereo audio and Red Cyan 3D Discover.
Now I will just have to accept optical audio for my blu rays and run a shorter HDMI cable between the projector and PC, or buy a separate 3D blu ray player if I want to use the lossless DTS and DD formats for films.
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Sorry to hear that. I've used 25' and 50' cables I got at Homedepot (of all places) without issues. (except the cables are so thick that I broke the 50' one when I moved my PC - the weight of the cable itself broke the HDMI end that was going into a GTX card). (EGADS! 25M? My calculator equates that to 82 FEET!)
I have the HDMI+power routed to the side of the room where its a easy reach to the front (where the receiver is - while IR tends to bounce around the room pointing the remote actually AT something is more intuitive then counting on reflections.
How big of a image did you go with? Are you controlling ambient light? Have you tried it with a shorter cable? (one of the AVI sites has a brightness calculator that you can use to figure optimum screen size+distance. I started with 70" then went to +120" and finally settled on 96" as the optimum tradeoff for me in brightness and size)
I ordered one of those $40USD "HDMI Sound Splitters" this weekend and it ought to be here next week. This will allow me to run a short (IE:Very flexible) HDMI cable between the PC and the splitter and plug the thick/heavy 25'er into the splitter while loosing the 3X audio cables going from my PC to the HTReceiver. (for some reason using the analog outputs I can't get decent volume out of my center channel, very bothersome to me) I'll then use a 6' optical cable between the splitter and the HTReceiver.
I also ordered a DVI-D to HDMI adapter with the idea that with a EDID hack the GTX card might output via a DVI connector a non-frame-packed (top/bottom or L/R) 720P 3D signal or better and I might get even better picture quality out of it.
I'll report back how/if the two devices work out when they come in and I have a chance to play with them.
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As for the image quality, the step down to 720p is noticeable but not too bad, however the image does appear somewhat washed out. I suspect this could be because I'm using a wall instead of a screen, and adjusting the contrast on the projector has already made a significant improvement. I imagine I can probably tweak it further.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=371214
Give it a shot. I have to use all of my projectors with that full range rgb fix. Otherwise i get washed out colors in 3d. Some 2d resolutions also give limited rgb range. im not sure what triggers it, native resolution seems to work fine tho. 3dtv play 720p definitely triggers limited range rgb for me and results to a washed out look.
(btw tridef 1080p Top bottom mode looks better than 720p 3dtvplay. SBS also gives more resolution loss imo)