1080p in 3D at 60hz, when? and how will we know?
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How will we know when a Tv will do a 1080p @ 120hz output? Is that something that Tv makers would even bother letting people know they support? How would we go about testing for this capability on a new Tv? Does 3DTV Play even allow 1080p @60hz if a Tv supported it, or does it lock it out without checking? Right now, when i change the resolution to 1080p @60hz with 3DTV Play enabled, i get a message saying Nvidia does not support this mode in 3D.

I checked out the 2011 Sony HX929 at a local store and it is very responsive over my 2010 Sony NX711, like its internal processors have received a major upgrade. How would i test, or ask someone to test if they support 1080p @60?
How will we know when a Tv will do a 1080p @ 120hz output? Is that something that Tv makers would even bother letting people know they support? How would we go about testing for this capability on a new Tv? Does 3DTV Play even allow 1080p @60hz if a Tv supported it, or does it lock it out without checking? Right now, when i change the resolution to 1080p @60hz with 3DTV Play enabled, i get a message saying Nvidia does not support this mode in 3D.



I checked out the 2011 Sony HX929 at a local store and it is very responsive over my 2010 Sony NX711, like its internal processors have received a major upgrade. How would i test, or ask someone to test if they support 1080p @60?

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#1
Posted 05/19/2011 05:32 AM   
As far as I know, the bottleneck is the the pitiful HDMI industry standard. Those cumbersome and expensive cables have not enough bandwidth to faithfuly transmit side by side stereo at 1080p.
Displayport standard is said to overcome that limitation.
As far as I know, the bottleneck is the the pitiful HDMI industry standard. Those cumbersome and expensive cables have not enough bandwidth to faithfuly transmit side by side stereo at 1080p.

Displayport standard is said to overcome that limitation.

#2
Posted 05/19/2011 06:54 AM   
What kind of question is that? Of course , you'll know it , from youtoob!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK9EEE3RsKM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZC6ORUbLog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4oPWINVVEw

ps.: analog VGA connection can do fullHD over 120hz /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />
What kind of question is that? Of course , you'll know it , from youtoob!









ps.: analog VGA connection can do fullHD over 120hz /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />

#3
Posted 05/19/2011 08:16 AM   
And analog TV signal has no annoying video compression artifacts. Lately it seems like technology is going backwards.
And analog TV signal has no annoying video compression artifacts. Lately it seems like technology is going backwards.

#4
Posted 05/19/2011 12:26 PM   
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='19 May 2011 - 01:16 AM' timestamp='1305792986' post='1239442']
What kind of question is that? Of course , you'll know it , from youtoob!
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK9EEE3RsKM"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JK9EEE3RsKM[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZC6ORUbLog"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hZC6ORUbLog[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4oPWINVVEw"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=X4oPWINVVEw[/url]
[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/user/PrankvsPrank#p/u/62/v3TPnjtyzNA"]http://www.youtube.c.../62/v3TPnjtyzNA[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDZtnAJmIIQ"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=PDZtnAJmIIQ[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d7XuZg5gkk"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4d7XuZg5gkk[/url]



[quote]ps.: analog VGA connection can do fullHD over 120hz /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />
[/quote]Tv's can only take in a 60hz input, but thats still interesting to know.
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='19 May 2011 - 01:16 AM' timestamp='1305792986' post='1239442']

What kind of question is that? Of course , you'll know it , from youtoob!

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JK9EEE3RsKM

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hZC6ORUbLog

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...h?v=X4oPWINVVEw



http://www.youtube.c.../62/v3TPnjtyzNA

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...h?v=PDZtnAJmIIQ

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4d7XuZg5gkk







ps.: analog VGA connection can do fullHD over 120hz /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />

Tv's can only take in a 60hz input, but thats still interesting to know.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#5
Posted 05/20/2011 04:00 AM   
Hmm, can "the Andrew" weigh in on this perhaps? /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />
Hmm, can "the Andrew" weigh in on this perhaps? /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#6
Posted 05/20/2011 04:06 AM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='20 May 2011 - 05:06 AM' timestamp='1305864405' post='1239926']
Hmm, can "the Andrew" weigh in on this perhaps? /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />
[/quote]

No 1080p 60hz each eye tv is available, so what does it matter? It'll only be worth considering once they are released.
[quote name='Libertine' date='20 May 2011 - 05:06 AM' timestamp='1305864405' post='1239926']

Hmm, can "the Andrew" weigh in on this perhaps? /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />





No 1080p 60hz each eye tv is available, so what does it matter? It'll only be worth considering once they are released.
#7
Posted 05/20/2011 07:48 AM   
Even when HDMI1.5 TVs exist, 3D Vision must allow for 1080P /60 in Frame Sequential mode (aka 'CRT'). If Frame Seq is stuck at 1080P/30 as it is now, then we'll be stuck with undesireable Video pixel processing since Nvidia doesn't support SBS mode. Nvidia isn't even aware of this issue, so I doubt if they'll address it.
Even when HDMI1.5 TVs exist, 3D Vision must allow for 1080P /60 in Frame Sequential mode (aka 'CRT'). If Frame Seq is stuck at 1080P/30 as it is now, then we'll be stuck with undesireable Video pixel processing since Nvidia doesn't support SBS mode. Nvidia isn't even aware of this issue, so I doubt if they'll address it.

#8
Posted 05/20/2011 04:53 PM   
Don't worry guys, this market will be disrupted.

They can do temporal upsampling for true 240hz with proper display & interface, and it only costs 2-3 milliseconds, imo , no reason not to do it,look:

http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/resources/3DTemporalUpsampling/3DTemporalUpsampling.pdf
Don't worry guys, this market will be disrupted.



They can do temporal upsampling for true 240hz with proper display & interface, and it only costs 2-3 milliseconds, imo , no reason not to do it,look:



http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/resources/3DTemporalUpsampling/3DTemporalUpsampling.pdf

#9
Posted 05/20/2011 04:56 PM   
[quote name='Suntory_Times' date='20 May 2011 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1305877686' post='1239968']
No 1080p 60hz each eye tv is available, so what does it matter? It'll only be worth considering once they are released.
[/quote]


http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=197212&st=0&p=1219376&fromsearch=1&#entry1219376

According to some people in this thread, the HDMI cable itself and the TV support the bandwidth, and the HDMI 1.4 spec supports it. Its been said that it is the chips that process the data that don't. Processors could theoretically be updated behind the scenes to support what they said they would support before.....

If Andrew knows something about it, i'd like to know. The way he refers to his position at Nvidia, it sounds like he writes the code and thus would have very good info and i think he could spare a couple minutes to shed some light on the issue.
[quote name='Suntory_Times' date='20 May 2011 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1305877686' post='1239968']

No 1080p 60hz each eye tv is available, so what does it matter? It'll only be worth considering once they are released.







http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=197212&st=0&p=1219376&fromsearch=1&#entry1219376



According to some people in this thread, the HDMI cable itself and the TV support the bandwidth, and the HDMI 1.4 spec supports it. Its been said that it is the chips that process the data that don't. Processors could theoretically be updated behind the scenes to support what they said they would support before.....



If Andrew knows something about it, i'd like to know. The way he refers to his position at Nvidia, it sounds like he writes the code and thus would have very good info and i think he could spare a couple minutes to shed some light on the issue.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#10
Posted 05/21/2011 03:54 AM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='21 May 2011 - 04:54 AM' timestamp='1305950063' post='1240333']
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=197212&st=0&p=1219376&fromsearch=1&#entry1219376

According to some people in this thread, the HDMI cable itself and the TV support the bandwidth, and the HDMI 1.4 spec supports it. Its been said that it is the chips that process the data that don't. Processors could theoretically be updated behind the scenes to support what they said they would support before.....

If Andrew knows something about it, i'd like to know. The way he refers to his position at Nvidia, it sounds like he writes the code and thus would have very good info and i think he could spare a couple minutes to shed some light on the issue.
[/quote]

Yes, but the chip that doesn't support it is in the tv. It's the video processor that is the problem and not the tv's themselves (at leat with plasma, not sure about lcd's).
[quote name='Libertine' date='21 May 2011 - 04:54 AM' timestamp='1305950063' post='1240333']

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=197212&st=0&p=1219376&fromsearch=1&#entry1219376



According to some people in this thread, the HDMI cable itself and the TV support the bandwidth, and the HDMI 1.4 spec supports it. Its been said that it is the chips that process the data that don't. Processors could theoretically be updated behind the scenes to support what they said they would support before.....



If Andrew knows something about it, i'd like to know. The way he refers to his position at Nvidia, it sounds like he writes the code and thus would have very good info and i think he could spare a couple minutes to shed some light on the issue.





Yes, but the chip that doesn't support it is in the tv. It's the video processor that is the problem and not the tv's themselves (at leat with plasma, not sure about lcd's).
#11
Posted 05/21/2011 04:20 AM   
How do you know it can't be solved, whatever the issue is? Is that just an assumption you are making because TV manufactures or HDMI havn't made an official announcement?
How do you know it can't be solved, whatever the issue is? Is that just an assumption you are making because TV manufactures or HDMI havn't made an official announcement?

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#12
Posted 05/21/2011 04:38 AM   
This is probably not going to be fixed until the new 2012 HDTVs come out (hopefully). When that happens, I'm sure Nvidia will update their driver.
This is probably not going to be fixed until the new 2012 HDTVs come out (hopefully). When that happens, I'm sure Nvidia will update their driver.
#13
Posted 05/21/2011 06:10 AM   
It still would be nice to know how to tell, if there was a way, because i already know which model/s to test it out on, since a flagship model would be most likely to support this feature I would guess. I also know of a TV review site that pulls off the back panels of the Tv, so i could shoot them an email asking them to check something.

Someone said that it was the video processor that was at fault, well, Toshiba updated their video processors to 14 bit this year, and they have the TV's with the least crosstalk. Someone else said the HDMI input processors needed a higher clock rate. Maybe they list of clock rate of the processor on the chip. Whatever it is, if it can be checked i'd like to know how, because i don't see Tv manufacturers making a big deal about it when they support full 1080p @60hz, simply because consoles can't handle it (some games can't even do 720p, like Killzone 3, or so i read) and blu-ray works fine already.

I think i'll knock on HDMI and Sony's doors for info.
It still would be nice to know how to tell, if there was a way, because i already know which model/s to test it out on, since a flagship model would be most likely to support this feature I would guess. I also know of a TV review site that pulls off the back panels of the Tv, so i could shoot them an email asking them to check something.



Someone said that it was the video processor that was at fault, well, Toshiba updated their video processors to 14 bit this year, and they have the TV's with the least crosstalk. Someone else said the HDMI input processors needed a higher clock rate. Maybe they list of clock rate of the processor on the chip. Whatever it is, if it can be checked i'd like to know how, because i don't see Tv manufacturers making a big deal about it when they support full 1080p @60hz, simply because consoles can't handle it (some games can't even do 720p, like Killzone 3, or so i read) and blu-ray works fine already.



I think i'll knock on HDMI and Sony's doors for info.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#14
Posted 05/21/2011 04:19 PM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='21 May 2011 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1305994782' post='1240528']
It still would be nice to know how to tell, if there was a way, because i already know which model/s to test it out on, since a flagship model would be most likely to support this feature I would guess. I also know of a TV review site that pulls off the back panels of the Tv, so i could shoot them an email asking them to check something.

Someone said that it was the video processor that was at fault, well, Toshiba updated their video processors to 14 bit this year, and they have the TV's with the least crosstalk. Someone else said the HDMI input processors needed a higher clock rate. Maybe they list of clock rate of the processor on the chip. Whatever it is, if it can be checked i'd like to know how, because i don't see Tv manufacturers making a big deal about it when they support full 1080p @60hz, simply because consoles can't handle it (some games can't even do 720p, like Killzone 3, or so i read) and blu-ray works fine already.

I think i'll knock on HDMI and Sony's doors for info.
[/quote]

I'm eagerly awaiting the answers from HDMI as I would love to know whether they're using the faster chips in the next gen televisions. Similarly, I would like to know which manufacturers will adopt display port tech so that this problem can finally be circumvented.

I wonder whether VESA should also be contacted. These guys may be holding all of the manufacturers, including hdmi, at ransom. According to this wiki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA

the standards for display port, which may have some similarities to hdmi, are sold for hundreds of thousands. This is contrary to the story which most of us may have come accross suggesting display ports are royalty free and therefore cheaper than hdmi.

If legal garbage has been preventing me from gaming with an acceptable 1080p 3d format (sorry roller) on a large screen tv for over two years.... then may god have mercy on us all.
[quote name='Libertine' date='21 May 2011 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1305994782' post='1240528']

It still would be nice to know how to tell, if there was a way, because i already know which model/s to test it out on, since a flagship model would be most likely to support this feature I would guess. I also know of a TV review site that pulls off the back panels of the Tv, so i could shoot them an email asking them to check something.



Someone said that it was the video processor that was at fault, well, Toshiba updated their video processors to 14 bit this year, and they have the TV's with the least crosstalk. Someone else said the HDMI input processors needed a higher clock rate. Maybe they list of clock rate of the processor on the chip. Whatever it is, if it can be checked i'd like to know how, because i don't see Tv manufacturers making a big deal about it when they support full 1080p @60hz, simply because consoles can't handle it (some games can't even do 720p, like Killzone 3, or so i read) and blu-ray works fine already.



I think i'll knock on HDMI and Sony's doors for info.





I'm eagerly awaiting the answers from HDMI as I would love to know whether they're using the faster chips in the next gen televisions. Similarly, I would like to know which manufacturers will adopt display port tech so that this problem can finally be circumvented.



I wonder whether VESA should also be contacted. These guys may be holding all of the manufacturers, including hdmi, at ransom. According to this wiki article



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA



the standards for display port, which may have some similarities to hdmi, are sold for hundreds of thousands. This is contrary to the story which most of us may have come accross suggesting display ports are royalty free and therefore cheaper than hdmi.



If legal garbage has been preventing me from gaming with an acceptable 1080p 3d format (sorry roller) on a large screen tv for over two years.... then may god have mercy on us all.

#15
Posted 05/22/2011 08:02 AM   
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