FPShooters: is it possible for gun to be lower convergence than game world like Tridef?
So I am about to start a Fallout 4 playthrough in 3D, and was comparing Tridef ignition Fallout 4 profile to Helix Mod 3D fix. Once I got TaB working with the old fix, I definitely preferred the Helix 3D fix as I can control the ironsights convergence perfectly with 3DM and it runs 10-15 FPS better than Tridef. The one area that Tridef is better, is that the guns are made "flatter" allowing the game world to be really high convergence and look amazing in this game. The guns definitely look much worse this way, BUT the trade off is worth it as the world looks truly fantastic. I can replicate this easy enough when the gun is put away on the Helix fix side, but when the gun is out (not ADS) the convergence needs to be lowered from like 150 all the way to 28 - otherwise it will be split image and make your eyes bleed. I checked some other first person shooter fixes to see if anything similar has been done to handle guns differently than the rest of the image, but doesn't look like it. So just wondering if it is not possible, or it is considered preferred to have guns look great but game world lower convergence? I think I found a workaround by using lowering guns mod, and hope to find a custom camera mod to move the guns out of sight so I can use high convergence all the time (except ADS of course). not exactly ideal though, so I thought I would check if there are other options I was missing as I am still learning how powerful 3DM can be...
So I am about to start a Fallout 4 playthrough in 3D, and was comparing Tridef ignition Fallout 4 profile to Helix Mod 3D fix. Once I got TaB working with the old fix, I definitely preferred the Helix 3D fix as I can control the ironsights convergence perfectly with 3DM and it runs 10-15 FPS better than Tridef.

The one area that Tridef is better, is that the guns are made "flatter" allowing the game world to be really high convergence and look amazing in this game. The guns definitely look much worse this way, BUT the trade off is worth it as the world looks truly fantastic. I can replicate this easy enough when the gun is put away on the Helix fix side, but when the gun is out (not ADS) the convergence needs to be lowered from like 150 all the way to 28 - otherwise it will be split image and make your eyes bleed.

I checked some other first person shooter fixes to see if anything similar has been done to handle guns differently than the rest of the image, but doesn't look like it. So just wondering if it is not possible, or it is considered preferred to have guns look great but game world lower convergence?

I think I found a workaround by using lowering guns mod, and hope to find a custom camera mod to move the guns out of sight so I can use high convergence all the time (except ADS of course). not exactly ideal though, so I thought I would check if there are other options I was missing as I am still learning how powerful 3DM can be...

#1
Posted 06/13/2018 01:45 PM   
i never get past the fact if you use really high convergence everything that comes into clipping range get so big separation it causes discomfort so i always adjust maximum convergence by walking as close to a tree and adjuting maximum convergence with still comfort to watch, or use grass by setting it stick a little off the screen.
i never get past the fact if you use really high convergence everything that comes into clipping range get so big separation it causes discomfort so i always adjust maximum convergence by walking as close to a tree and adjuting maximum convergence with still comfort to watch, or use grass by setting it stick a little off the screen.

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#2
Posted 06/13/2018 08:27 PM   
It's possible with a bit of shader hacking knowledge, I've done so in a few games, such as Elite Dangerous to keep the cockpit in view while cranking the convergence really high to get an intense 3D effect. Some games will be harder than others, depending on which shaders, and how many are used. Pretty sure FO4 would be one of the more difficult cases, based on my recollection of mike_ar69's reports of dealing with the HUD in that game. It's certainly not as simple as downloading 3DMigoto and changing a line or two in the .ini file, so unless you're willing to spend a bit of time learning the basics then it'll unfortunately be a bit beyond your grasp.
It's possible with a bit of shader hacking knowledge, I've done so in a few games, such as Elite Dangerous to keep the cockpit in view while cranking the convergence really high to get an intense 3D effect. Some games will be harder than others, depending on which shaders, and how many are used. Pretty sure FO4 would be one of the more difficult cases, based on my recollection of mike_ar69's reports of dealing with the HUD in that game. It's certainly not as simple as downloading 3DMigoto and changing a line or two in the .ini file, so unless you're willing to spend a bit of time learning the basics then it'll unfortunately be a bit beyond your grasp.

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#3
Posted 06/14/2018 04:43 AM   
I use lowered weapon, and No crosshair, also holster the gun when not needed. I crank the convergence Up to 150ish and then i simply dont Focus om the gun. Imagine the real world, nobody in a fight looks at the gun, it feels very natural after a Short session ;)
I use lowered weapon, and No crosshair, also holster the gun when not needed.

I crank the convergence Up to 150ish and then i simply dont Focus om the gun.
Imagine the real world, nobody in a fight looks at the gun, it feels very natural after a Short session ;)

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#4
Posted 06/14/2018 06:25 AM   
I use lowered weapon, and No crosshair, also holster the gun when not needed. I crank the convergence Up to 150ish and then i simply dont Focus om the gun. Imagine the real world, nobody in a fight looks at the gun, it feels very natural after a Short session ;) DHR made a great fix for Prey with lower convergence om the hands and gun.
I use lowered weapon, and No crosshair, also holster the gun when not needed.

I crank the convergence Up to 150ish and then i simply dont Focus om the gun.
Imagine the real world, nobody in a fight looks at the gun, it feels very natural after a Short session ;)
DHR made a great fix for Prey with lower convergence om the hands and gun.

Win7 64bit Pro
CPU: 4790K 4.8 GHZ
GPU: Aurus 1080 TI 2.08 GHZ - 100% Watercooled !
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
And lots of ram and HD's ;)

#5
Posted 06/14/2018 06:29 AM   
Same situation in Borderlands 2, except backwards. The guns are gigantic. Never quite understood why it happened in some games but not others.
Same situation in Borderlands 2, except backwards. The guns are gigantic. Never quite understood why it happened in some games but not others.

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#6
Posted 06/16/2018 04:22 PM   
Shift-E, what you need is [URL="http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/depth-hack/"]TsaebehT's depth hack[/URL] Just about everything can be tweaked or hacked in software, the experts here will tell you. I also felt like FO4 didnt have enough depth so I searched the web for answers where I came across TsaebehT's depth hack. It makes you go past nVidia's depth limitations. But you want to stick within your IPD. (the distance between your eyes). For example, the object separation in the distance shouldnt be more than your IPD otherwise you could break your eyes. But the best solution is to get a projector! With a PJ you can comfortably let your gun pop out of your screen. My old setup with a 27" monitor used to be to walk up to a wall inside the game and set the convergence so that the wall's converge point lined up with my screen bezel. (Which is immersively realistic) With a PJ you can let it out quite a bit further before it becomes uncomfortable. Many a time the objects pop out so far that I can touch it. Similar to an experience at IMAX. Like Skyrim you get the feeling that the swords and bows fit within your actual arm length. You are totally absorbed in games like Trine because of this. Some games which was a bit disappointing on a 27" came back to live on a 100" screen. Avatar I just wanted to get it over and done with for instance. But in this game you can also adjust the distance you sit away from the screen which gives you absolute 100% control over 3D. This is one aspect of 3D very few take in consideration. This should also be part of the 3D algorithm. 3d Visions algorithm doesnt work well in Bethesda's engine. Since I bought the benq W1070 i started replaying all my favorites and wished I had this with the initial launch. Everyone was going crazy about Trine and when I played it on a 27" I felt the same like with Avatar. Dissapointed! But now, on a 100" inch (almost) perfect ghost free screen I cant believe my eyes. My girfriend started having nightmares where I would walk away with other woman. After some deep thought I realized this new 100" screen was the culprit. Thats how serious this could influence your life. The biggest problems you will hear many utter here is that you will need a lot of space and a dark room. At first the change from 1080p or higher to 720p also takes a while to get used to. But after a few months you totally forget about it. The other day I went back to my 27" and tried Shadow of Mordor since it didnt want to launch in 720p. I will never ever understand how the hell I got used to that terrible ghosting!!!? But I guess you have to make a compromise everywhere in the virtual world. It wont be perfect for another 10 years at least.
Shift-E, what you need is TsaebehT's depth hack

Just about everything can be tweaked or hacked in software, the experts here will tell you. I also felt like FO4 didnt have enough depth so I searched the web for answers where I came across TsaebehT's depth hack. It makes you go past nVidia's depth limitations. But you want to stick within your IPD. (the distance between your eyes). For example, the object separation in the distance shouldnt be more than your IPD otherwise you could break your eyes.

But the best solution is to get a projector! With a PJ you can comfortably let your gun pop out of your screen. My old setup with a 27" monitor used to be to walk up to a wall inside the game and set the convergence so that the wall's converge point lined up with my screen bezel. (Which is immersively realistic) With a PJ you can let it out quite a bit further before it becomes uncomfortable. Many a time the objects pop out so far that I can touch it. Similar to an experience at IMAX. Like Skyrim you get the feeling that the swords and bows fit within your actual arm length. You are totally absorbed in games like Trine because of this. Some games which was a bit disappointing on a 27" came back to live on a 100" screen. Avatar I just wanted to get it over and done with for instance. But in this game you can also adjust the distance you sit away from the screen which gives you absolute 100% control over 3D. This is one aspect of 3D very few take in consideration. This should also be part of the 3D algorithm. 3d Visions algorithm doesnt work well in Bethesda's engine.

Since I bought the benq W1070 i started replaying all my favorites and wished I had this with the initial launch. Everyone was going crazy about Trine and when I played it on a 27" I felt the same like with Avatar. Dissapointed! But now, on a 100" inch (almost) perfect ghost free screen I cant believe my eyes. My girfriend started having nightmares where I would walk away with other woman. After some deep thought I realized this new 100" screen was the culprit. Thats how serious this could influence your life. The biggest problems you will hear many utter here is that you will need a lot of space and a dark room. At first the change from 1080p or higher to 720p also takes a while to get used to. But after a few months you totally forget about it. The other day I went back to my 27" and tried Shadow of Mordor since it didnt want to launch in 720p. I will never ever understand how the hell I got used to that terrible ghosting!!!? But I guess you have to make a compromise everywhere in the virtual world. It wont be perfect for another 10 years at least.

#7
Posted 06/19/2018 08:48 AM   
[quote="Libertine-"]Same situation in Borderlands 2, except backwards. The guns are gigantic. Never quite understood why it happened in some games but not others.[/quote] It's because in most FPS games, the gun is drawn in a separate instance than the rest of the scene. It allows the gun to be drawn at any scale with completely different camera parameters. There are 2 advantages to doing it this way : - art : no jarring collisions with the world. No matter how close to the walls you move, the gun will not disappear inside the walls. It will always be shown in the foreground. - technical : Z-buffer precision : when rendering games using directX/OpenGL, etc.... the Z-buffer is extremely precise at close range and looses precision at long range. When rendering most scenes it's perfect as the stuff closest to the camera is more important. But this strategy breaks apart when drawing large scenes in open-world games as more and more detail is rendered at long distances. If the Z-buffer precision becomes too low for the density of objects in the scene, you get a visual artefact called Z-fighting. And if you have a super high detail model really close to the camera like a gun in a moders FPS game, then you need to spend a huge amount of precision at short range, leaving the long range with very little precision. Rendering the gun separately allows the engine to reallocate more Z-buffer precision for objects in the distance.
Libertine- said:Same situation in Borderlands 2, except backwards. The guns are gigantic. Never quite understood why it happened in some games but not others.

It's because in most FPS games, the gun is drawn in a separate instance than the rest of the scene.

It allows the gun to be drawn at any scale with completely different camera parameters.
There are 2 advantages to doing it this way :
- art : no jarring collisions with the world. No matter how close to the walls you move, the gun will not disappear inside the walls. It will always be shown in the foreground.
- technical : Z-buffer precision : when rendering games using directX/OpenGL, etc.... the Z-buffer is extremely precise at close range and looses precision at long range. When rendering most scenes it's perfect as the stuff closest to the camera is more important. But this strategy breaks apart when drawing large scenes in open-world games as more and more detail is rendered at long distances. If the Z-buffer precision becomes too low for the density of objects in the scene, you get a visual artefact called Z-fighting.
And if you have a super high detail model really close to the camera like a gun in a moders FPS game, then you need to spend a huge amount of precision at short range, leaving the long range with very little precision.
Rendering the gun separately allows the engine to reallocate more Z-buffer precision for objects in the distance.

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#8
Posted 06/20/2018 12:50 PM   
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