Look at my 720p screenshots of Metro 2033 and try honestly telling me they suck. Some games look better than others, ill give you that, but Metro 2033, Dead Space 2, BC2, and many others look amazing. Mass Effect is the only one that looked nasty, but that was because it didn't have any type of AA at all available to use. Maybe its because im sitting so close to my big 46", so there is less edges per inch. Anyway, i rate it higher than my 3007wfp-hc as long as AA is available.
Look at my 720p screenshots of Metro 2033 and try honestly telling me they suck. Some games look better than others, ill give you that, but Metro 2033, Dead Space 2, BC2, and many others look amazing. Mass Effect is the only one that looked nasty, but that was because it didn't have any type of AA at all available to use. Maybe its because im sitting so close to my big 46", so there is less edges per inch. Anyway, i rate it higher than my 3007wfp-hc as long as AA is available.
[quote name='cravinmild' date='26 January 2012 - 05:58 AM' timestamp='1327557491' post='1360752']
I am almost completely lost to all that your talking about (everyone). This is what i know, 3d vision on my asus 3d monitor looks good,, really good and i want as close to that as i can get with my new samsung 6420 3dtv AND i know from trying that 3d play sucks so bad its not even worth play games with, junk in a trash can is has more value than 3dtv play imo. I really dont care if rollermod is this, that or the next thing. If the rollermod offers an acceptable gaming experiance than im all for it, anything is better than 3dtv play at this point. So if someone would answer this i would be most grateful DOES THE ROLLERMOD LOOK BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY.
I'VE USED 3DTV PLAY JUST FOR A WHILE AND HATED IT TIL I FOUND OUT ABOUT ROLLERMOD AND DISCOVERED A NEW 3D GAMING POSSIBILITY THAT REALLY MADE MY SAMSUNG PLASMA TV WORTH EVERY PENNY I INVESTED ON IT, SINCE MY PRIMARY USE FOR IT WAS 3D GAMING. I DO WATCH 3D MOVIES, BUT GAMING IS WHAT I LIKE THE MOST AND I WAS SO DISAPPOINTED WITH 3DTV PLAY. ROLLERMOD IS A MUST HAVE, IF YOUR TV SUPPORTS CHECKERBOARD OR FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE. ROLLERMOD IS SO GOOD, THAT YOU CAN ALSO PLAY GAMES AT 1080P FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE KNOWN TO NVIDIA AS GENERIC CRT MODE, WITHOUT ANY PIXEL LOSS AT ALL, FULL RESOLUTION PER EYE, AND STILL GET 30FPS, INSTEAD OF 24FPS OFFERED BY 3DTV PLAY. SO, THE ADVANTAGES WITH ROLLERMOD ARE ENDLESS.
SINCE 3DTV PLAY IS ONLY POSSIBLE AT 720P60HZ, CAUSE 1080P24HZ IS NOT SUITABLE FOR GAMING, I CAN CONFIRM THAT 1080P CHECKERBOARD IS A 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 720P FRAME PACKING. ROLLERMOD'S FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE 1080P60HZ = 30FPS PER EYE IS ALSO 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY'S 1080P24HZ = 24FPS PER EYE
[quote name='cravinmild' date='26 January 2012 - 05:58 AM' timestamp='1327557491' post='1360752']
I am almost completely lost to all that your talking about (everyone). This is what i know, 3d vision on my asus 3d monitor looks good,, really good and i want as close to that as i can get with my new samsung 6420 3dtv AND i know from trying that 3d play sucks so bad its not even worth play games with, junk in a trash can is has more value than 3dtv play imo. I really dont care if rollermod is this, that or the next thing. If the rollermod offers an acceptable gaming experiance than im all for it, anything is better than 3dtv play at this point. So if someone would answer this i would be most grateful DOES THE ROLLERMOD LOOK BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY.
All you guys and your big words Shezzzzz
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! WAY BETTER!!!!!!!!
I'VE USED 3DTV PLAY JUST FOR A WHILE AND HATED IT TIL I FOUND OUT ABOUT ROLLERMOD AND DISCOVERED A NEW 3D GAMING POSSIBILITY THAT REALLY MADE MY SAMSUNG PLASMA TV WORTH EVERY PENNY I INVESTED ON IT, SINCE MY PRIMARY USE FOR IT WAS 3D GAMING. I DO WATCH 3D MOVIES, BUT GAMING IS WHAT I LIKE THE MOST AND I WAS SO DISAPPOINTED WITH 3DTV PLAY. ROLLERMOD IS A MUST HAVE, IF YOUR TV SUPPORTS CHECKERBOARD OR FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE. ROLLERMOD IS SO GOOD, THAT YOU CAN ALSO PLAY GAMES AT 1080P FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE KNOWN TO NVIDIA AS GENERIC CRT MODE, WITHOUT ANY PIXEL LOSS AT ALL, FULL RESOLUTION PER EYE, AND STILL GET 30FPS, INSTEAD OF 24FPS OFFERED BY 3DTV PLAY. SO, THE ADVANTAGES WITH ROLLERMOD ARE ENDLESS.
SINCE 3DTV PLAY IS ONLY POSSIBLE AT 720P60HZ, CAUSE 1080P24HZ IS NOT SUITABLE FOR GAMING, I CAN CONFIRM THAT 1080P CHECKERBOARD IS A 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 720P FRAME PACKING. ROLLERMOD'S FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE 1080P60HZ = 30FPS PER EYE IS ALSO 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY'S 1080P24HZ = 24FPS PER EYE
SO, THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION....
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[quote name='Grestorn' date='25 January 2012 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1327475685' post='1360262']
As a matter of fact, dzlvs is correct in saying that it's incorrect to claim that 1920x1080 in Checkerboard is native resolution.[/quote]
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='25 January 2012 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1327475685' post='1360262']
As a matter of fact, dzlvs is correct in saying that it's incorrect to claim that 1920x1080 in Checkerboard is native resolution.
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='25 January 2012 - 07:49 AM' timestamp='1327499367' post='1360396']
This talk about "native resolution", however, is pure bull****, because it is not a native resolution. [/quote]
It is not native resolution if this means that each eye "sees" 1920x1080 pixels, otherwise it would be virtually identical to 1080p120 framesequential, but it is being rendered on a 1920x1080 image per frame which is mapped onto the grid of a 1920x1080 display in a "checkerboard" array. The latter is all that has ever been claimed by what is called "native resolution" by roller11 or others, vis. and to repeat, a 1920x1080 image is arrayed into a left/right checkerboard "single" image 1:1 onto a native 1920x1080 resolution display. Does it take an image quality hit vs. native resolution frame sequential? of course it does, but it is precisely that it arrays a 1920x1080 AS A single image without having to monkey with upcaling from a lower resolution to a higher resolution is the reason for why it has a better image quality than 720p60 framepacking (which is rendering on a native 1080p display). If you took a 720p60 framepacked image on a native 720p screen, well the problem would go away for gaming sakes, but as far as I know no display exists. This is the reason why there is a push for side-by-side and checkerboard into 3DTV Play. Gamers want a better image quality if and when 1080p60 framepacking over HDMI becomes available.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='25 January 2012 - 07:49 AM' timestamp='1327499367' post='1360396']
This talk about "native resolution", however, is pure bull****, because it is not a native resolution.
It is not native resolution if this means that each eye "sees" 1920x1080 pixels, otherwise it would be virtually identical to 1080p120 framesequential, but it is being rendered on a 1920x1080 image per frame which is mapped onto the grid of a 1920x1080 display in a "checkerboard" array. The latter is all that has ever been claimed by what is called "native resolution" by roller11 or others, vis. and to repeat, a 1920x1080 image is arrayed into a left/right checkerboard "single" image 1:1 onto a native 1920x1080 resolution display. Does it take an image quality hit vs. native resolution frame sequential? of course it does, but it is precisely that it arrays a 1920x1080 AS A single image without having to monkey with upcaling from a lower resolution to a higher resolution is the reason for why it has a better image quality than 720p60 framepacking (which is rendering on a native 1080p display). If you took a 720p60 framepacked image on a native 720p screen, well the problem would go away for gaming sakes, but as far as I know no display exists. This is the reason why there is a push for side-by-side and checkerboard into 3DTV Play. Gamers want a better image quality if and when 1080p60 framepacking over HDMI becomes available.
I've been noticing that SBS is kind of blurry on my Sony. I haven't done much testing, and i've only noticed it in some games, yet i wasn't looking for it at all, since i was just assuming the 12% hike to SBS would only be a good thing. And im not sure if its a Tridef thing or a Sony thing or a SBS thing yet, but i'll probably find out here soon.
I've been noticing that SBS is kind of blurry on my Sony. I haven't done much testing, and i've only noticed it in some games, yet i wasn't looking for it at all, since i was just assuming the 12% hike to SBS would only be a good thing. And im not sure if its a Tridef thing or a Sony thing or a SBS thing yet, but i'll probably find out here soon.
[quote name='roller11' date='26 January 2012 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1327593202' post='1360911']
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
[/quote]
Let's keep the personal assaults at me aside...
Please explain me one thing:
Checkerboard means that every other pixel is alternatingly used for the left and for the right eye, correct?
So for each full image for one eye, there are half of the pixels missing, right?
How the hell do you think the picture for one eye is then displayed without interpolating the missing pixels?
[quote name='roller11' date='26 January 2012 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1327593202' post='1360911']
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
Let's keep the personal assaults at me aside...
Please explain me one thing:
Checkerboard means that every other pixel is alternatingly used for the left and for the right eye, correct?
So for each full image for one eye, there are half of the pixels missing, right?
How the hell do you think the picture for one eye is then displayed without interpolating the missing pixels?
Stretching is the same as interpolating. And roller claims I'm totally wrong in saying that it stretches.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
Stretching is the same as interpolating. And roller claims I'm totally wrong in saying that it stretches.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
Grestorn, you definitely have a lot of respect on this forum, I don't think Roller's opinion is shared by many to be honest.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Grestorn, you definitely have a lot of respect on this forum, I don't think Roller's opinion is shared by many to be honest.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
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I'd just like to piont something out here.
Roller11, it is you that's the liar, or your misinformed, i'd say your miss informed.
Checkerboard is'nt native 1080p 3d on a 3dtv!
There are no displays apart from true 120hz that can display a full 1080p60hz 3d image!
Your argument is viod.
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv!
Current 3dtv's cannot handle full 1080p60hz 3d
I'll not comment on anything else as i do not have the info.
Checkerboard however does look better than interleaved.
However, interleaved is zero lag 3d gaming at it's best, and for me it's the only way to play 3d games but then i have a interleaved set, still if i had the option for zero lag gaming or a slightly better image i'd go zero lag 3d gaming any day of the week, it's the least laggy of all the 3dtv 3d options.
Roller11, it is you that's the liar, or your misinformed, i'd say your miss informed.
Checkerboard is'nt native 1080p 3d on a 3dtv!
There are no displays apart from true 120hz that can display a full 1080p60hz 3d image!
Your argument is viod.
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv!
Current 3dtv's cannot handle full 1080p60hz 3d
I'll not comment on anything else as i do not have the info.
Checkerboard however does look better than interleaved.
However, interleaved is zero lag 3d gaming at it's best, and for me it's the only way to play 3d games but then i have a interleaved set, still if i had the option for zero lag gaming or a slightly better image i'd go zero lag 3d gaming any day of the week, it's the least laggy of all the 3dtv 3d options.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
I've tried Interleaved mode using a Zalman Passive display 3D Vision Ready EDID and used it in my Samsung C7000 Plasma. I've only played Batman AC in this mode for a while and it's quality is like CB in my opinion, I coudn't see any difference at all. About the zero lag, do you mean, interleaved has a better response to controls, smoother gameplay than CB, cause both are 60hz and 60fps?
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
I've tried Interleaved mode using a Zalman Passive display 3D Vision Ready EDID and used it in my Samsung C7000 Plasma. I've only played Batman AC in this mode for a while and it's quality is like CB in my opinion, I coudn't see any difference at all. About the zero lag, do you mean, interleaved has a better response to controls, smoother gameplay than CB, cause both are 60hz and 60fps?
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
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[quote name='mocca' date='27 January 2012 - 04:14 AM' timestamp='1327659248' post='1361288']
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv![/quote]
But you're stating exactly what has been the claim! Like roller or not like him is irrelevant to the truth tracking what he is saying, and the irony of this post of yours is quite telling for those who make the claims of "native resolution" checkerboard.
[quote name='mocca' date='27 January 2012 - 04:14 AM' timestamp='1327659248' post='1361288']
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv!
But you're stating exactly what has been the claim! Like roller or not like him is irrelevant to the truth tracking what he is saying, and the irony of this post of yours is quite telling for those who make the claims of "native resolution" checkerboard.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='27 January 2012 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1327652297' post='1361247']
Stretching is the same as interpolating. And roller claims I'm totally wrong in saying that it stretches.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
[/quote]
Interpolation is not identical to stretching. Stretching is the idea of taking what would be a given set of data say at 1,1 to 1,2 and then stretching it to say 1,1 to 2,4.
Interpolation is the idea of constructing NEW data points from WITHIN a fixed set. Such that if I had a fixed curve based on a fixed data set, I would be filling WITHIN the curve or enhancing the curve in a polynomial or spline interpolation vis. a linear interpolation.
Stretching involves a definite topological change to its structure in which the image quality can be distorted. Interpolation does not necessarily distort because it does not necessitate a general change to the toplogy, it involves understanding a data from within the fixed topological points.
Now, in regards to what we are discussing here, the reason why 1080p checkerboard looks better than 720p60 framepacking (on a 1080p display) is because the overall and general topology of the 3D model does not change between 1080p checkerboard and 1080p framesequential, you only have a loss of information "in between" something that is so fine that those who have seen 1080p24 or 1080p120 framesequential on one hand and 1080p60 checkerboard on the other hand are unable to give a definite quantifying change to their viewing quality experience. The defined topology of how the 3D world "looks" is still intact, something that is observablely a distorted image, overall, in 720p60 via a 1080p display.
Now where I believe 1080p checkerboard is inferior is in its ability to give good textual quality to small in-game text (Counter-Strike?) and that is solely by dint of the process since small text isn't going to garner many pixels in the first place, such that this information "in between" that is lost contributes to image degradation due to the size of the text. In games where the dialogue text is much larger like Skyrim, one does not witness a textual degradation because the size of the text has enough pixels to keep the toplogy of the letters in-tact.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='27 January 2012 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1327652297' post='1361247']
Stretching is the same as interpolating. And roller claims I'm totally wrong in saying that it stretches.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
Interpolation is not identical to stretching. Stretching is the idea of taking what would be a given set of data say at 1,1 to 1,2 and then stretching it to say 1,1 to 2,4.
Interpolation is the idea of constructing NEW data points from WITHIN a fixed set. Such that if I had a fixed curve based on a fixed data set, I would be filling WITHIN the curve or enhancing the curve in a polynomial or spline interpolation vis. a linear interpolation.
Stretching involves a definite topological change to its structure in which the image quality can be distorted. Interpolation does not necessarily distort because it does not necessitate a general change to the toplogy, it involves understanding a data from within the fixed topological points.
Now, in regards to what we are discussing here, the reason why 1080p checkerboard looks better than 720p60 framepacking (on a 1080p display) is because the overall and general topology of the 3D model does not change between 1080p checkerboard and 1080p framesequential, you only have a loss of information "in between" something that is so fine that those who have seen 1080p24 or 1080p120 framesequential on one hand and 1080p60 checkerboard on the other hand are unable to give a definite quantifying change to their viewing quality experience. The defined topology of how the 3D world "looks" is still intact, something that is observablely a distorted image, overall, in 720p60 via a 1080p display.
Now where I believe 1080p checkerboard is inferior is in its ability to give good textual quality to small in-game text (Counter-Strike?) and that is solely by dint of the process since small text isn't going to garner many pixels in the first place, such that this information "in between" that is lost contributes to image degradation due to the size of the text. In games where the dialogue text is much larger like Skyrim, one does not witness a textual degradation because the size of the text has enough pixels to keep the toplogy of the letters in-tact.
[quote name='rustyk' date='27 January 2012 - 03:33 AM' timestamp='1327653200' post='1361249']
Grestorn, you definitely have a lot of respect on this forum, I don't think Roller's opinion is shared by many to be honest.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
[/quote]
Well said rusty. While I think there are merits to both sides of the argument (I've already expressed my opinion), I think the some of the personal attacks on Grestorn's credibility are a bit of a joke. Makes me wonder if some of these people just started using GeForce products yesterday.
[quote name='rustyk' date='27 January 2012 - 03:33 AM' timestamp='1327653200' post='1361249']
Grestorn, you definitely have a lot of respect on this forum, I don't think Roller's opinion is shared by many to be honest.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
Well said rusty. While I think there are merits to both sides of the argument (I've already expressed my opinion), I think the some of the personal attacks on Grestorn's credibility are a bit of a joke. Makes me wonder if some of these people just started using GeForce products yesterday.
[quote name='francomg' date='27 January 2012 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1327675401' post='1361365']
I've tried Interleaved mode using a Zalman Passive display 3D Vision Ready EDID and used it in my Samsung C7000 Plasma. I've only played Batman AC in this mode for a while and it's quality is like CB in my opinion, I coudn't see any difference at all. About the zero lag, do you mean, interleaved has a better response to controls, smoother gameplay than CB, cause both are 60hz and 60fps?
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
[/quote]
Hi,
Because the tv does'nt have to switch into 3d while using interleaved then there is a better response time meaning it's pretty good for zero lag 3d gaming as essentially your playing in 2d with 2d response time and input lag times.
All 3dtv 3d modes add some input lag due to the proccessing teh tv does for 3d first before it's shown on screen, if the 3dtv has good input lag then switching to 3d adds minor lag dependant on what model it is, lg is pretty bad in this regard as they have lag and adding any 3d processing creates more lag.
Best of all the 3dtv modes to me is passives interlaced/interleaved as it the only 3d proccess that allows for zero lag 3d gaming.
I say zero lag, i mean 2d input lag is better than a 3d input lag /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
Allthough you tried the interleaved edid on your sammy you did'nt experience the full effect, only a passive can do zero lag 3d interleaved gaming with minimul input lag times and play at 60hz giving 60fps if you can manage it /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
[quote name='francomg' date='27 January 2012 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1327675401' post='1361365']
I've tried Interleaved mode using a Zalman Passive display 3D Vision Ready EDID and used it in my Samsung C7000 Plasma. I've only played Batman AC in this mode for a while and it's quality is like CB in my opinion, I coudn't see any difference at all. About the zero lag, do you mean, interleaved has a better response to controls, smoother gameplay than CB, cause both are 60hz and 60fps?
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
Hi,
Because the tv does'nt have to switch into 3d while using interleaved then there is a better response time meaning it's pretty good for zero lag 3d gaming as essentially your playing in 2d with 2d response time and input lag times.
All 3dtv 3d modes add some input lag due to the proccessing teh tv does for 3d first before it's shown on screen, if the 3dtv has good input lag then switching to 3d adds minor lag dependant on what model it is, lg is pretty bad in this regard as they have lag and adding any 3d processing creates more lag.
Best of all the 3dtv modes to me is passives interlaced/interleaved as it the only 3d proccess that allows for zero lag 3d gaming.
I say zero lag, i mean 2d input lag is better than a 3d input lag /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
Allthough you tried the interleaved edid on your sammy you did'nt experience the full effect, only a passive can do zero lag 3d interleaved gaming with minimul input lag times and play at 60hz giving 60fps if you can manage it /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
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46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
I am almost completely lost to all that your talking about (everyone). This is what i know, 3d vision on my asus 3d monitor looks good,, really good and i want as close to that as i can get with my new samsung 6420 3dtv AND i know from trying that 3d play sucks so bad its not even worth play games with, junk in a trash can is has more value than 3dtv play imo. I really dont care if rollermod is this, that or the next thing. If the rollermod offers an acceptable gaming experiance than im all for it, anything is better than 3dtv play at this point. So if someone would answer this i would be most grateful DOES THE ROLLERMOD LOOK BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY.
[img]http://forums.nvidia.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif[/img]
All you guys and your big words Shezzzzz
[/quote]
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! WAY BETTER!!!!!!!!
I'VE USED 3DTV PLAY JUST FOR A WHILE AND HATED IT TIL I FOUND OUT ABOUT ROLLERMOD AND DISCOVERED A NEW 3D GAMING POSSIBILITY THAT REALLY MADE MY SAMSUNG PLASMA TV WORTH EVERY PENNY I INVESTED ON IT, SINCE MY PRIMARY USE FOR IT WAS 3D GAMING. I DO WATCH 3D MOVIES, BUT GAMING IS WHAT I LIKE THE MOST AND I WAS SO DISAPPOINTED WITH 3DTV PLAY. ROLLERMOD IS A MUST HAVE, IF YOUR TV SUPPORTS CHECKERBOARD OR FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE. ROLLERMOD IS SO GOOD, THAT YOU CAN ALSO PLAY GAMES AT 1080P FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE KNOWN TO NVIDIA AS GENERIC CRT MODE, WITHOUT ANY PIXEL LOSS AT ALL, FULL RESOLUTION PER EYE, AND STILL GET 30FPS, INSTEAD OF 24FPS OFFERED BY 3DTV PLAY. SO, THE ADVANTAGES WITH ROLLERMOD ARE ENDLESS.
SINCE 3DTV PLAY IS ONLY POSSIBLE AT 720P60HZ, CAUSE 1080P24HZ IS NOT SUITABLE FOR GAMING, I CAN CONFIRM THAT 1080P CHECKERBOARD IS A 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 720P FRAME PACKING. ROLLERMOD'S FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE 1080P60HZ = 30FPS PER EYE IS ALSO 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY'S 1080P24HZ = 24FPS PER EYE
SO, THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION....
I am almost completely lost to all that your talking about (everyone). This is what i know, 3d vision on my asus 3d monitor looks good,, really good and i want as close to that as i can get with my new samsung 6420 3dtv AND i know from trying that 3d play sucks so bad its not even worth play games with, junk in a trash can is has more value than 3dtv play imo. I really dont care if rollermod is this, that or the next thing. If the rollermod offers an acceptable gaming experiance than im all for it, anything is better than 3dtv play at this point. So if someone would answer this i would be most grateful DOES THE ROLLERMOD LOOK BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY.
All you guys and your big words Shezzzzz
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! WAY BETTER!!!!!!!!
I'VE USED 3DTV PLAY JUST FOR A WHILE AND HATED IT TIL I FOUND OUT ABOUT ROLLERMOD AND DISCOVERED A NEW 3D GAMING POSSIBILITY THAT REALLY MADE MY SAMSUNG PLASMA TV WORTH EVERY PENNY I INVESTED ON IT, SINCE MY PRIMARY USE FOR IT WAS 3D GAMING. I DO WATCH 3D MOVIES, BUT GAMING IS WHAT I LIKE THE MOST AND I WAS SO DISAPPOINTED WITH 3DTV PLAY. ROLLERMOD IS A MUST HAVE, IF YOUR TV SUPPORTS CHECKERBOARD OR FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE. ROLLERMOD IS SO GOOD, THAT YOU CAN ALSO PLAY GAMES AT 1080P FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE KNOWN TO NVIDIA AS GENERIC CRT MODE, WITHOUT ANY PIXEL LOSS AT ALL, FULL RESOLUTION PER EYE, AND STILL GET 30FPS, INSTEAD OF 24FPS OFFERED BY 3DTV PLAY. SO, THE ADVANTAGES WITH ROLLERMOD ARE ENDLESS.
SINCE 3DTV PLAY IS ONLY POSSIBLE AT 720P60HZ, CAUSE 1080P24HZ IS NOT SUITABLE FOR GAMING, I CAN CONFIRM THAT 1080P CHECKERBOARD IS A 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 720P FRAME PACKING. ROLLERMOD'S FRAME SEQUENTIAL MODE 1080P60HZ = 30FPS PER EYE IS ALSO 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN 3DTV PLAY'S 1080P24HZ = 24FPS PER EYE
SO, THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION....
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As a matter of fact, dzlvs is correct in saying that it's incorrect to claim that 1920x1080 in Checkerboard is native resolution.[/quote]
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
As a matter of fact, dzlvs is correct in saying that it's incorrect to claim that 1920x1080 in Checkerboard is native resolution.
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
This talk about "native resolution", however, is pure bull****, because it is not a native resolution. [/quote]
It is not native resolution if this means that each eye "sees" 1920x1080 pixels, otherwise it would be virtually identical to 1080p120 framesequential, but it is being rendered on a 1920x1080 image per frame which is mapped onto the grid of a 1920x1080 display in a "checkerboard" array. The latter is all that has ever been claimed by what is called "native resolution" by roller11 or others, vis. and to repeat, a 1920x1080 image is arrayed into a left/right checkerboard "single" image 1:1 onto a native 1920x1080 resolution display. Does it take an image quality hit vs. native resolution frame sequential? of course it does, but it is precisely that it arrays a 1920x1080 AS A single image without having to monkey with upcaling from a lower resolution to a higher resolution is the reason for why it has a better image quality than 720p60 framepacking (which is rendering on a native 1080p display). If you took a 720p60 framepacked image on a native 720p screen, well the problem would go away for gaming sakes, but as far as I know no display exists. This is the reason why there is a push for side-by-side and checkerboard into 3DTV Play. Gamers want a better image quality if and when 1080p60 framepacking over HDMI becomes available.
This talk about "native resolution", however, is pure bull****, because it is not a native resolution.
It is not native resolution if this means that each eye "sees" 1920x1080 pixels, otherwise it would be virtually identical to 1080p120 framesequential, but it is being rendered on a 1920x1080 image per frame which is mapped onto the grid of a 1920x1080 display in a "checkerboard" array. The latter is all that has ever been claimed by what is called "native resolution" by roller11 or others, vis. and to repeat, a 1920x1080 image is arrayed into a left/right checkerboard "single" image 1:1 onto a native 1920x1080 resolution display. Does it take an image quality hit vs. native resolution frame sequential? of course it does, but it is precisely that it arrays a 1920x1080 AS A single image without having to monkey with upcaling from a lower resolution to a higher resolution is the reason for why it has a better image quality than 720p60 framepacking (which is rendering on a native 1080p display). If you took a 720p60 framepacked image on a native 720p screen, well the problem would go away for gaming sakes, but as far as I know no display exists. This is the reason why there is a push for side-by-side and checkerboard into 3DTV Play. Gamers want a better image quality if and when 1080p60 framepacking over HDMI becomes available.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
[/quote]
Let's keep the personal assaults at me aside...
Please explain me one thing:
Checkerboard means that every other pixel is alternatingly used for the left and for the right eye, correct?
So for each full image for one eye, there are half of the pixels missing, right?
How the hell do you think the picture for one eye is then displayed without interpolating the missing pixels?
The problem is not that you continue to lie to people with your "CB is not native resolution" mantra, regulars to this forum have learned to ignore everything you say because virtually everything you tell us, the exact opposite is true.
The problem is that noobies, people who aren't aware of your reputation, might actually give some credibity to your statements and then spend money on the wrong TV.
I'll keep saying this for the sake of the people who haven't learned to ignore you yet:
CB is native resolution 1920x1080 because it is 1 to 1 pixel mapped. This is the very definition of "native resolution" and the definition that NBC, CBS, the CW use. These major networks claim they are broadcasting in 1920x1080, yet Greston would tells us they are wrong or lying to us.
Grestorn thinks that CB is 1 to 2 mapped, that each image pixel is stretched over two pixels on the display, this is wrong.
This is a free forum and people can spout whatever absurdities they want. People such as Grestorn and Libertine who have NEVER SEEN checkerboard mode on a TV can tell us how bad it looks. But even a noobie understands that one cannot evaluate something that has never been observed.
So keep telling people that CB mode is not native resolution and the rest of us will continue to correct you until you finally 'get it'.
Let's keep the personal assaults at me aside...
Please explain me one thing:
Checkerboard means that every other pixel is alternatingly used for the left and for the right eye, correct?
So for each full image for one eye, there are half of the pixels missing, right?
How the hell do you think the picture for one eye is then displayed without interpolating the missing pixels?
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
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Roller11, it is you that's the liar, or your misinformed, i'd say your miss informed.
Checkerboard is'nt native 1080p 3d on a 3dtv!
There are no displays apart from true 120hz that can display a full 1080p60hz 3d image!
Your argument is viod.
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv!
Current 3dtv's cannot handle full 1080p60hz 3d
I'll not comment on anything else as i do not have the info.
Checkerboard however does look better than interleaved.
However, interleaved is zero lag 3d gaming at it's best, and for me it's the only way to play 3d games but then i have a interleaved set, still if i had the option for zero lag gaming or a slightly better image i'd go zero lag 3d gaming any day of the week, it's the least laggy of all the 3dtv 3d options.
Roller11, it is you that's the liar, or your misinformed, i'd say your miss informed.
Checkerboard is'nt native 1080p 3d on a 3dtv!
There are no displays apart from true 120hz that can display a full 1080p60hz 3d image!
Your argument is viod.
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv!
Current 3dtv's cannot handle full 1080p60hz 3d
I'll not comment on anything else as i do not have the info.
Checkerboard however does look better than interleaved.
However, interleaved is zero lag 3d gaming at it's best, and for me it's the only way to play 3d games but then i have a interleaved set, still if i had the option for zero lag gaming or a slightly better image i'd go zero lag 3d gaming any day of the week, it's the least laggy of all the 3dtv 3d options.
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I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv![/quote]
But you're stating exactly what has been the claim! Like roller or not like him is irrelevant to the truth tracking what he is saying, and the irony of this post of yours is quite telling for those who make the claims of "native resolution" checkerboard.
One day you will eventually listen to others and accept the fact that checkerboard is'nt full native 3d 1080p, lol it fills 1080p pixels, but then so does sbs and any other 3d format, checkerboard just has the best image due to the way its layed out, and that's all it is, the best 3d image on a 3dtv!
But you're stating exactly what has been the claim! Like roller or not like him is irrelevant to the truth tracking what he is saying, and the irony of this post of yours is quite telling for those who make the claims of "native resolution" checkerboard.
Stretching is the same as interpolating. And roller claims I'm totally wrong in saying that it stretches.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
[/quote]
Interpolation is not identical to stretching. Stretching is the idea of taking what would be a given set of data say at 1,1 to 1,2 and then stretching it to say 1,1 to 2,4.
Interpolation is the idea of constructing NEW data points from WITHIN a fixed set. Such that if I had a fixed curve based on a fixed data set, I would be filling WITHIN the curve or enhancing the curve in a polynomial or spline interpolation vis. a linear interpolation.
Stretching involves a definite topological change to its structure in which the image quality can be distorted. Interpolation does not necessarily distort because it does not necessitate a general change to the toplogy, it involves understanding a data from within the fixed topological points.
Now, in regards to what we are discussing here, the reason why 1080p checkerboard looks better than 720p60 framepacking (on a 1080p display) is because the overall and general topology of the 3D model does not change between 1080p checkerboard and 1080p framesequential, you only have a loss of information "in between" something that is so fine that those who have seen 1080p24 or 1080p120 framesequential on one hand and 1080p60 checkerboard on the other hand are unable to give a definite quantifying change to their viewing quality experience. The defined topology of how the 3D world "looks" is still intact, something that is observablely a distorted image, overall, in 720p60 via a 1080p display.
Now where I believe 1080p checkerboard is inferior is in its ability to give good textual quality to small in-game text (Counter-Strike?) and that is solely by dint of the process since small text isn't going to garner many pixels in the first place, such that this information "in between" that is lost contributes to image degradation due to the size of the text. In games where the dialogue text is much larger like Skyrim, one does not witness a textual degradation because the size of the text has enough pixels to keep the toplogy of the letters in-tact.
Stretching is the same as interpolating. And roller claims I'm totally wrong in saying that it stretches.
BTW, I'd like to add that I never attacked roller in this thread. I didn't even claim, that his mod doesn't work or that it looks worse than 720p. I just said that I think that there are situations (certain games) where 720p might give better results. And that I thought that the OP didn't deserve all that heat against him.
Well, what I did accomplish with that, is that I'M now the bad guy instead of him... It seems some people can't take even the slightest hint of doubt that their experience works absolutely brilliant in every situation for everyone.
Interpolation is not identical to stretching. Stretching is the idea of taking what would be a given set of data say at 1,1 to 1,2 and then stretching it to say 1,1 to 2,4.
Interpolation is the idea of constructing NEW data points from WITHIN a fixed set. Such that if I had a fixed curve based on a fixed data set, I would be filling WITHIN the curve or enhancing the curve in a polynomial or spline interpolation vis. a linear interpolation.
Stretching involves a definite topological change to its structure in which the image quality can be distorted. Interpolation does not necessarily distort because it does not necessitate a general change to the toplogy, it involves understanding a data from within the fixed topological points.
Now, in regards to what we are discussing here, the reason why 1080p checkerboard looks better than 720p60 framepacking (on a 1080p display) is because the overall and general topology of the 3D model does not change between 1080p checkerboard and 1080p framesequential, you only have a loss of information "in between" something that is so fine that those who have seen 1080p24 or 1080p120 framesequential on one hand and 1080p60 checkerboard on the other hand are unable to give a definite quantifying change to their viewing quality experience. The defined topology of how the 3D world "looks" is still intact, something that is observablely a distorted image, overall, in 720p60 via a 1080p display.
Now where I believe 1080p checkerboard is inferior is in its ability to give good textual quality to small in-game text (Counter-Strike?) and that is solely by dint of the process since small text isn't going to garner many pixels in the first place, such that this information "in between" that is lost contributes to image degradation due to the size of the text. In games where the dialogue text is much larger like Skyrim, one does not witness a textual degradation because the size of the text has enough pixels to keep the toplogy of the letters in-tact.
Grestorn, you definitely have a lot of respect on this forum, I don't think Roller's opinion is shared by many to be honest.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
[/quote]
Well said rusty. While I think there are merits to both sides of the argument (I've already expressed my opinion), I think the some of the personal attacks on Grestorn's credibility are a bit of a joke. Makes me wonder if some of these people just started using GeForce products yesterday.
Grestorn, you definitely have a lot of respect on this forum, I don't think Roller's opinion is shared by many to be honest.
I'm sure part of the reason why the topic has escalated is just down to language barriers. Everyone is aware that when you write what you think you mean it's not always interpreted in the same way, even when discussing technical issues.
Anyway, theory aside, all I would say is that the mod works really well for me and a lot of others and I think Roller's language is a bit strong, but seeing really is believing!
Can we all go and enjoy our games now? :-)
Well said rusty. While I think there are merits to both sides of the argument (I've already expressed my opinion), I think the some of the personal attacks on Grestorn's credibility are a bit of a joke. Makes me wonder if some of these people just started using GeForce products yesterday.
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I've tried Interleaved mode using a Zalman Passive display 3D Vision Ready EDID and used it in my Samsung C7000 Plasma. I've only played Batman AC in this mode for a while and it's quality is like CB in my opinion, I coudn't see any difference at all. About the zero lag, do you mean, interleaved has a better response to controls, smoother gameplay than CB, cause both are 60hz and 60fps?
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
[/quote]
Hi,
Because the tv does'nt have to switch into 3d while using interleaved then there is a better response time meaning it's pretty good for zero lag 3d gaming as essentially your playing in 2d with 2d response time and input lag times.
All 3dtv 3d modes add some input lag due to the proccessing teh tv does for 3d first before it's shown on screen, if the 3dtv has good input lag then switching to 3d adds minor lag dependant on what model it is, lg is pretty bad in this regard as they have lag and adding any 3d processing creates more lag.
Best of all the 3dtv modes to me is passives interlaced/interleaved as it the only 3d proccess that allows for zero lag 3d gaming.
I say zero lag, i mean 2d input lag is better than a 3d input lag
Allthough you tried the interleaved edid on your sammy you did'nt experience the full effect, only a passive can do zero lag 3d interleaved gaming with minimul input lag times and play at 60hz giving 60fps if you can manage it
I've tried Interleaved mode using a Zalman Passive display 3D Vision Ready EDID and used it in my Samsung C7000 Plasma. I've only played Batman AC in this mode for a while and it's quality is like CB in my opinion, I coudn't see any difference at all. About the zero lag, do you mean, interleaved has a better response to controls, smoother gameplay than CB, cause both are 60hz and 60fps?
I need to do more testing to see if this is the case, as I'm more used to Checkerboard. Frankly, I have used Generic CRT mode more often then Checkerboard when using Rollermod cause I'm always after the best 3D quality and I felt that many games are quite playable at 1080p60hz = 30fps. To me Generic CRT mode is the best 3D mode for a 3DTV, despite of the 30fps limitation. Most consoles have a FPS average around 30, so it's not really that bad. But some games like 1st person shooters and other FPS titles, you really need 60fps to have a enjoyable experience, than I go for Checkerboard, but my favorite 3D mode is always frame sequential mode, in a 3DTV or 3D Vision Display, its the best quality of all 3D modes.
Hi,
Because the tv does'nt have to switch into 3d while using interleaved then there is a better response time meaning it's pretty good for zero lag 3d gaming as essentially your playing in 2d with 2d response time and input lag times.
All 3dtv 3d modes add some input lag due to the proccessing teh tv does for 3d first before it's shown on screen, if the 3dtv has good input lag then switching to 3d adds minor lag dependant on what model it is, lg is pretty bad in this regard as they have lag and adding any 3d processing creates more lag.
Best of all the 3dtv modes to me is passives interlaced/interleaved as it the only 3d proccess that allows for zero lag 3d gaming.
I say zero lag, i mean 2d input lag is better than a 3d input lag
Allthough you tried the interleaved edid on your sammy you did'nt experience the full effect, only a passive can do zero lag 3d interleaved gaming with minimul input lag times and play at 60hz giving 60fps if you can manage it
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