Official 334.67 Driver Thread for New 3D Vision Game Support Feedback
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I read about this "fake 3D" a couple of times in this thread, but can anyone explain to me why it is fake? Whats the difference between fake and real in that matter anyway?
I read about this "fake 3D" a couple of times in this thread, but can anyone explain to me why it is fake? Whats the difference between fake and real in that matter anyway?

My actual User Name is "Sevion" but as Nvidia is horribly incompetent whenever touching anything software-related, they just screwed up my User Name when migrating their forum. Don't be like Nvidia, learn proper programing.GTX 980i7 4790KGA-Z97X-Gaming 7

#76
Posted 01/28/2014 04:26 AM   
"Real" 3d in a film sense is when the movie is filmed from two angles at the same time, simulating the fact that we have two eyes. In much the same way, "real" 3d in a game uses two virtual cameras to render the scene twice from two different angles, creating an accurate 3d experience with the potential for strong depth, convergence (pop-out) and a sense of volume to the world. Fake 3d in movies are when films are shot in 2d, then the footage for the second "eye" is generated on a computer (it still involves a team of artists to do so). That's kind of what's happening here, by the looks of things. This new method appears to render the scene once, then use the depth buffer to guess how "deep" objects should be, and push them back accordingly. The end result is you get a fairly limited range of depth and convergence, as there isn't enough visual information to generate the second eye at enough of an offset. As a consequence of this, you get something that looks like "layers" of flat paper at different depths, instead of objects with real volume. You also introduce a number of visual anomolies, most significantly "halos" around objects close to the screen (like the player character or weaponmodel in first person).
"Real" 3d in a film sense is when the movie is filmed from two angles at the same time, simulating the fact that we have two eyes. In much the same way, "real" 3d in a game uses two virtual cameras to render the scene twice from two different angles, creating an accurate 3d experience with the potential for strong depth, convergence (pop-out) and a sense of volume to the world.

Fake 3d in movies are when films are shot in 2d, then the footage for the second "eye" is generated on a computer (it still involves a team of artists to do so). That's kind of what's happening here, by the looks of things. This new method appears to render the scene once, then use the depth buffer to guess how "deep" objects should be, and push them back accordingly. The end result is you get a fairly limited range of depth and convergence, as there isn't enough visual information to generate the second eye at enough of an offset. As a consequence of this, you get something that looks like "layers" of flat paper at different depths, instead of objects with real volume. You also introduce a number of visual anomolies, most significantly "halos" around objects close to the screen (like the player character or weaponmodel in first person).

#77
Posted 01/28/2014 04:33 AM   
Does changing monitor size in the registry help with depth for this new driver method?
Does changing monitor size in the registry help with depth for this new driver method?

#78
Posted 01/28/2014 04:50 AM   
Forcing greater depth with this method, if possible, would create giant halos and glitches.
Forcing greater depth with this method, if possible, would create giant halos and glitches.

#79
Posted 01/28/2014 05:06 AM   
[quote="mbloof"]@SteveK: While something might SEEM better than nothing when it comes to 3D this is mostly not the case. While Hollywood is killing 3D with cheap "3D Conversions" that can be easily watched in their entirety without dawning 3D glasses those of us who know what REAL 3D looks like (I'm a photographer and can make+create 3D photos) look at many of the fake 3D solutions with disdain and shake our heads. My suggestion to the Nvidia 3DVision project/program team is to fire up a copy of TombRaider2013 on a 3DVison/3DPlay enabled projector, turn all the game effect/eye candy on maximum, turn up the 3D effect slider to 100% and drag the depth slider +/- 1-2 clicks off center (ether direction) and just run the built in game benchmark and observe what us 3DVision fans like looking at while gaming. Or even better yet - just PLAY some of the game. My guess is that the entire team will be STUNNED by the way 3D adds so much to the immersion and game play. Then compare what you just watched+played to the "fake 3D effect" that your giving us. Can you see why the 3DVision community is not exactly thrilled with the 334.67 solution? Granted having a Tridef like "Power3D" option built into the 3DVison driver will help those that have not already bought Tridef or have 3DVision displays which Tridef is not a compatible option and is a step (considering most of us figured Nvidia was EOL'ing 3DVision because of lack of activity and/or support) that while maybe not exactly in the right direction we'd like to see, I am happy to see Nvidia trying to do SOMETHING with all this very expensive Nvidia hardware most of us own.[/quote] We all know and love TR - and I understand completely where you are coming from. Let me be clear that working with developers to provide the absolute best 3D Vision Ready experience we can is always our preferred solution. And we are in no way saying we won't continue to strive for this with this release. Hopefully we'll be able to refine this new technology to make the 3D experience more palatable, and enjoyable, to our more discerning users for popular games that would otherwise not be playable with 3DV. (User mods notwithstanding, of course.)
mbloof said:@SteveK: While something might SEEM better than nothing when it comes to 3D this is mostly not the case.

While Hollywood is killing 3D with cheap "3D Conversions" that can be easily watched in their entirety without dawning 3D glasses those of us who know what REAL 3D looks like (I'm a photographer and can make+create 3D photos) look at many of the fake 3D solutions with disdain and shake our heads.

My suggestion to the Nvidia 3DVision project/program team is to fire up a copy of TombRaider2013 on a 3DVison/3DPlay enabled projector, turn all the game effect/eye candy on maximum, turn up the 3D effect slider to 100% and drag the depth slider +/- 1-2 clicks off center (ether direction) and just run the built in game benchmark and observe what us 3DVision fans like looking at while gaming.

Or even better yet - just PLAY some of the game. My guess is that the entire team will be STUNNED by the way 3D adds so much to the immersion and game play.

Then compare what you just watched+played to the "fake 3D effect" that your giving us. Can you see why the 3DVision community is not exactly thrilled with the 334.67 solution?

Granted having a Tridef like "Power3D" option built into the 3DVison driver will help those that have not already bought Tridef or have 3DVision displays which Tridef is not a compatible option and is a step (considering most of us figured Nvidia was EOL'ing 3DVision because of lack of activity and/or support) that while maybe not exactly in the right direction we'd like to see, I am happy to see Nvidia trying to do SOMETHING with all this very expensive Nvidia hardware most of us own.


We all know and love TR - and I understand completely where you are coming from. Let me be clear that working with developers to provide the absolute best 3D Vision Ready experience we can is always our preferred solution. And we are in no way saying we won't continue to strive for this with this release. Hopefully we'll be able to refine this new technology to make the 3D experience more palatable, and enjoyable, to our more discerning users for popular games that would otherwise not be playable with 3DV. (User mods notwithstanding, of course.)

#80
Posted 01/28/2014 05:17 AM   
[quote="msm903"]while it is nice that they are trying something, I am disappointed with this since it fails to work in 3D surround. [/quote] FWIW, i fired up AC4 in 3D surround, and it was fine. Fine being a relative term here, of course. But just as playable as when i first tried it on one monitor. I havent tried any of the other games yet.
msm903 said:while it is nice that they are trying something, I am disappointed with this since it fails to work in 3D surround.


FWIW, i fired up AC4 in 3D surround, and it was fine. Fine being a relative term here, of course. But just as playable as when i first tried it on one monitor.

I havent tried any of the other games yet.

3D Vision Surround | Driver 359.00 | Windows 7
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3x ASUS VG248QE w/ G-SYNC

#81
Posted 01/28/2014 05:36 AM   
@SteveK You've probably already ascertained that we are a passionate bunch when it comes to 3D...lol Thankfully to this 3D community and the modders, I never realized how far my 3D enjoyment could go. I hope Nvidia efforts will move your drivers and software more and more to customizing the 3D experience. Fake 3D is too safe and conservative. I propose that Nvidia implements an option to turn it off and have an advanced section to allow the freedom of configuring. Truth is that I would not enjoy 3D vision as much if were not for the community tools and fixes. Such tools as shader disabling, multiple custom convergences, resolution settings walk hand in hand with the power of the PC. I look forward to see what is in store for 3D by Nvidia. Nonetheless, glad to see you on the forums and welcome!
@SteveK

You've probably already ascertained that we are a passionate bunch when it comes to 3D...lol Thankfully to this 3D community and the modders, I never realized how far my 3D enjoyment could go. I hope Nvidia efforts will move your drivers and software more and more to customizing the 3D experience. Fake 3D is too safe and conservative. I propose that Nvidia implements an option to turn it off and have an advanced section to allow the freedom of configuring. Truth is that I would not enjoy 3D vision as much if were not for the community tools and fixes. Such tools as shader disabling, multiple custom convergences, resolution settings walk hand in hand with the power of the PC. I look forward to see what is in store for 3D by Nvidia. Nonetheless, glad to see you on the forums and welcome!

#82
Posted 01/28/2014 06:02 AM   
Actually, good point. Its great to actually see someone from nvidia finally interacting with the community in the 3DVision forums. That in itself is quite an improvement of late.
Actually, good point. Its great to actually see someone from nvidia finally interacting with the community in the 3DVision forums. That in itself is quite an improvement of late.

#83
Posted 01/28/2014 06:28 AM   
Not the result we were all hoping for, but very positive nonetheless. Look forward to seeing this evolve.
Not the result we were all hoping for, but very positive nonetheless.

Look forward to seeing this evolve.

#84
Posted 01/28/2014 06:43 AM   
@SteveK Thanks! Please implement this new 3D technology as an option, which can be easily disabled or enabled in-game. Hopefully Nvidia will keep improving this till it becomes good enough for spoiled "real" 3D addicts, like myself.
@SteveK
Thanks! Please implement this new 3D technology as an option, which can be easily disabled or enabled in-game. Hopefully Nvidia will keep improving this till it becomes good enough for spoiled "real" 3D addicts, like myself.

#85
Posted 01/28/2014 06:40 AM   
Five direct comparison shots of HelixMod version of Bioshock Infinite with the 334.67 driver version. [url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/album/52e7572bcb85771868000025/[/url] Using a projector at maximum depth in both cases, convergence turned up to make sense but not cause problems. Seems OK to my eye, but the depth is surprisingly low. Compare them back to back, look at distant objects. Maybe 1/3 of the normal maximum.
Five direct comparison shots of HelixMod version of Bioshock Infinite with the 334.67 driver version.

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/album/52e7572bcb85771868000025/


Using a projector at maximum depth in both cases, convergence turned up to make sense but not cause problems.

Seems OK to my eye, but the depth is surprisingly low. Compare them back to back, look at distant objects. Maybe 1/3 of the normal maximum.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
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#86
Posted 01/28/2014 07:38 AM   
Thanks NVidia for the new driver. I've only tested AC4 so far, I'm not convinced this method of 3D is better than 2D cranked up to the fullest extent, but I appreciate the renewed interest you are showing for the 3D community. I'm also interested to see how this pans out in the future.
Thanks NVidia for the new driver. I've only tested AC4 so far, I'm not convinced this method of 3D is better than 2D cranked up to the fullest extent, but I appreciate the renewed interest you are showing for the 3D community.

I'm also interested to see how this pans out in the future.

i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
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Old kit:
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#87
Posted 01/28/2014 11:17 AM   
Although this "power3D" solution is a good signal from Nvidia toward 3Dvision users, it is also a proof than the "good old" 3D stereo rendering is dying with the upcoming DX11/12 generation. Nvidia (and the Helix team) really can not fix future games like they did with DX9 titles. Unless most of developpers implement real 3D in their future titles, all of this is far from a good new for us, 3D enthousiasts. Prove me wrong Nvidia.
Although this "power3D" solution is a good signal from Nvidia toward 3Dvision users, it is also a proof than the "good old" 3D stereo rendering is dying with the upcoming DX11/12 generation. Nvidia (and the Helix team) really can not fix future games like they did with DX9 titles.

Unless most of developpers implement real 3D in their future titles, all of this is far from a good new for us, 3D enthousiasts.

Prove me wrong Nvidia.

#88
Posted 01/28/2014 12:06 PM   
[quote="Laast"]Although this "power3D" solution is a good signal from Nvidia toward 3Dvision users, it is also a proof than the "good old" 3D stereo rendering is dying with the upcoming DX11/12 generation. Nvidia (and the Helix team) really can not fix future games like they did with DX9 titles. Unless most of developpers implement real 3D in their future titles, all of this is far from a good new for us, 3D enthousiasts. Prove me wrong Nvidia.[/quote] Some said the world will end in 2013..yet here we are:)) It will not die! We will still get 2-3-4 3D Vision Ready titles per year like before:) Plus, Helix and Flugan are working on their DX11 debuggers. Chiri also had one working which unfortunately he abandoned working it:) But the future is bright.. the future is.. GREEN ^_^
Laast said:Although this "power3D" solution is a good signal from Nvidia toward 3Dvision users, it is also a proof than the "good old" 3D stereo rendering is dying with the upcoming DX11/12 generation. Nvidia (and the Helix team) really can not fix future games like they did with DX9 titles.

Unless most of developpers implement real 3D in their future titles, all of this is far from a good new for us, 3D enthousiasts.

Prove me wrong Nvidia.


Some said the world will end in 2013..yet here we are:)) It will not die! We will still get 2-3-4 3D Vision Ready titles per year like before:) Plus, Helix and Flugan are working on their DX11 debuggers.
Chiri also had one working which unfortunately he abandoned working it:)

But the future is bright.. the future is.. GREEN ^_^

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
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- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
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Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#89
Posted 01/28/2014 12:43 PM   
[quote="helifax"][quote="Laast"]Although this "power3D" solution is a good signal from Nvidia toward 3Dvision users, it is also a proof than the "good old" 3D stereo rendering is dying with the upcoming DX11/12 generation. Nvidia (and the Helix team) really can not fix future games like they did with DX9 titles. Unless most of developpers implement real 3D in their future titles, all of this is far from a good new for us, 3D enthousiasts. Prove me wrong Nvidia.[/quote] Some said the world will end in 2013..yet here we are:)) It will not die! We will still get 2-3-4 3D Vision Ready titles per year like before:) Plus, Helix and Flugan are working on their DX11 debuggers. Chiri also had one working which unfortunately he abandoned working it:) But the future is bright.. the future is.. GREEN ^_^[/quote] Now you're being a bit too optimistic, Helix has been mia for months, Flugan has a lot of work ahead on his wrapper, and Nvidia needed 6 months to release a fake 3d solution. I hardly see the future in green XP I think UE4 support for Oculus Rift has more chances to bring 3d vision ready games than any of Nvidia efforts.
helifax said:
Laast said:Although this "power3D" solution is a good signal from Nvidia toward 3Dvision users, it is also a proof than the "good old" 3D stereo rendering is dying with the upcoming DX11/12 generation. Nvidia (and the Helix team) really can not fix future games like they did with DX9 titles.

Unless most of developpers implement real 3D in their future titles, all of this is far from a good new for us, 3D enthousiasts.

Prove me wrong Nvidia.


Some said the world will end in 2013..yet here we are:)) It will not die! We will still get 2-3-4 3D Vision Ready titles per year like before:) Plus, Helix and Flugan are working on their DX11 debuggers.
Chiri also had one working which unfortunately he abandoned working it:)

But the future is bright.. the future is.. GREEN ^_^


Now you're being a bit too optimistic, Helix has been mia for months, Flugan has a lot of work ahead on his wrapper, and Nvidia needed 6 months to release a fake 3d solution. I hardly see the future in green XP

I think UE4 support for Oculus Rift has more chances to bring 3d vision ready games than any of Nvidia efforts.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#90
Posted 01/28/2014 01:59 PM   
  6 / 17    
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