The use of CRU is very interesting and useful, I'll be trying this next time around so thanks :-)
I know it's subjective, but are you saying that the VA panels have too much ghosting in your experience?
A lot of us are probably in the same place, where we want a panel with great contrast, colours and HDR, but need the response times of TN for a decent 3d experience.
It seems to me that VA has the best contrast due to the deep blacks and has decent colours, IPS is available for better colours (and is more reponsive) or we have TN, which is the fastest but is not currently available with quantum dot or any other enhancements, outside of faster and faster panels.
I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
The use of CRU is very interesting and useful, I'll be trying this next time around so thanks :-)
I know it's subjective, but are you saying that the VA panels have too much ghosting in your experience?
A lot of us are probably in the same place, where we want a panel with great contrast, colours and HDR, but need the response times of TN for a decent 3d experience.
It seems to me that VA has the best contrast due to the deep blacks and has decent colours, IPS is available for better colours (and is more reponsive) or we have TN, which is the fastest but is not currently available with quantum dot or any other enhancements, outside of faster and faster panels.
I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
[quote="rustyk21"]I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
[/quote]
Dell tried to publish a OLED monitor but they failed due to the costs. The problem is that every second OLED panel has to be thrown away during production because it's faulty. So Manufacturers lose half of their panels. The strategy to compensate this financal loss during production is that they need a lot of buyers. And indeed for TVs and smartphones this works - there are many buyers for OLED Smartphones and OLED TVs. A lot of people are willing to spend unreasonably money for this. Why? Because they like to have a High-End TV in the living room. They like to present it to friends or other people coming to their homes - it's prestige! Also they like to have a high-End smartphone with OLED. Every year they buy a new model because it's even more prestige than TVs! They can show it all the time to other people! I guess it's at least 50% of their reason to spend this money. But how much money do they spend for monitors? 100€? 200€? Because no one of their friends and people care about what monitor they have. They can not show off with that. So monitor market is doomed to be stuck on TN / IPS / VA.
Don't understand me wrong. For example I'm not talking about people who bought an OLED TV in 2016 just due to great 3D capability - I'm talking about that mass of people just buying a TV and smartphone every year - just of prestige reasons. And this are the majority of people (of course not all!) And ironically this is the reason why OLED TVs and OLED smartphones even exist! Monitors are just not prestige! The existence of OLED only works if a lot of people are willing to spend a lot of money! Nobody wants to spend a lot of money for monitors. Maybe a small group of people like us - this small community - but that's not enough. But we would buy that because of great black levels and not for showing off. And one monitor every 4-5 years would be enough.
I mean what is the reason that you find 500 TVs but only 5 monitors in electrontric markets presented on their walls? ;)
rustyk21 said:I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
Dell tried to publish a OLED monitor but they failed due to the costs. The problem is that every second OLED panel has to be thrown away during production because it's faulty. So Manufacturers lose half of their panels. The strategy to compensate this financal loss during production is that they need a lot of buyers. And indeed for TVs and smartphones this works - there are many buyers for OLED Smartphones and OLED TVs. A lot of people are willing to spend unreasonably money for this. Why? Because they like to have a High-End TV in the living room. They like to present it to friends or other people coming to their homes - it's prestige! Also they like to have a high-End smartphone with OLED. Every year they buy a new model because it's even more prestige than TVs! They can show it all the time to other people! I guess it's at least 50% of their reason to spend this money. But how much money do they spend for monitors? 100€? 200€? Because no one of their friends and people care about what monitor they have. They can not show off with that. So monitor market is doomed to be stuck on TN / IPS / VA.
Don't understand me wrong. For example I'm not talking about people who bought an OLED TV in 2016 just due to great 3D capability - I'm talking about that mass of people just buying a TV and smartphone every year - just of prestige reasons. And this are the majority of people (of course not all!) And ironically this is the reason why OLED TVs and OLED smartphones even exist! Monitors are just not prestige! The existence of OLED only works if a lot of people are willing to spend a lot of money! Nobody wants to spend a lot of money for monitors. Maybe a small group of people like us - this small community - but that's not enough. But we would buy that because of great black levels and not for showing off. And one monitor every 4-5 years would be enough.
I mean what is the reason that you find 500 TVs but only 5 monitors in electrontric markets presented on their walls? ;)
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de
[quote="rustyk21"]I know it's subjective, but are you saying that the VA panels have too much ghosting in your experience.[/quote]In my short experience and on this particular monitor (Samsung C49HG90) I'd say, yes, ghosting is unbearable unless you reduce the depth setting to the bare minimum which defeats the whole point of 3D. Not sure how the smaller C32HG70 would fare in comparison, but if the rabbit test pictures posted by @dtopheenko are any indication, my guess is that it wouldn't be that different.
BTW, my three previous monitors were IPS and I grew tired of the disappointing contrast ratios, so for me, a TN panel would have been a downgrade in terms of picture quality. The need for an ultrawide for work-related reasons also weighed in my decision which further disqualified TN technology as a valid option.
[quote="rustyk21"]I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!![/quote]I'd also keep an eye on the OLED TVs as well, even though passive 3D support was dropped in 2017, the newer models now accept 120Hz input at 1080p, so maybe they could be made to work with the 3D Vision kit.
[quote="Pauldusler"]Don't understand me wrong. For example I'm not talking about people who bought an OLED TV in 2016 just due to great 3D capability.[/quote]Yeap, I snatched one for this very purpose before they were gone for good, so no offence taken ;)
rustyk21 said:I know it's subjective, but are you saying that the VA panels have too much ghosting in your experience.
In my short experience and on this particular monitor (Samsung C49HG90) I'd say, yes, ghosting is unbearable unless you reduce the depth setting to the bare minimum which defeats the whole point of 3D. Not sure how the smaller C32HG70 would fare in comparison, but if the rabbit test pictures posted by @dtopheenko are any indication, my guess is that it wouldn't be that different.
BTW, my three previous monitors were IPS and I grew tired of the disappointing contrast ratios, so for me, a TN panel would have been a downgrade in terms of picture quality. The need for an ultrawide for work-related reasons also weighed in my decision which further disqualified TN technology as a valid option.
rustyk21 said:I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
I'd also keep an eye on the OLED TVs as well, even though passive 3D support was dropped in 2017, the newer models now accept 120Hz input at 1080p, so maybe they could be made to work with the 3D Vision kit.
Pauldusler said:Don't understand me wrong. For example I'm not talking about people who bought an OLED TV in 2016 just due to great 3D capability.
Yeap, I snatched one for this very purpose before they were gone for good, so no offence taken ;)
[quote="dcasa80"]
[quote="rustyk21"]I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!![/quote]I'd also keep an eye on the OLED TVs as well, even though passive 3D support was dropped in 2017, the newer models now accept 120Hz input at 1080p, so maybe they could be made to work with the 3D Vision kit.
[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback, very useful.
I've already tried 3d vision on an OLED that supports 120Hz input and the results were useless. Mainly because there is no black frame insertion/ULMB and the OLEDs are always lit, so the image bleeds through the glasses. I might try again with my other glasses but from what I understand it's likely a no-go.
The later OLEDs do apparently have BFI but the implementation isn't great. That could improve though.
I started a thread about it a while back, also I have a thread here somewhere with loads of info from blurbusters.
rustyk21 said:I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
I'd also keep an eye on the OLED TVs as well, even though passive 3D support was dropped in 2017, the newer models now accept 120Hz input at 1080p, so maybe they could be made to work with the 3D Vision kit.
Thanks for the feedback, very useful.
I've already tried 3d vision on an OLED that supports 120Hz input and the results were useless. Mainly because there is no black frame insertion/ULMB and the OLEDs are always lit, so the image bleeds through the glasses. I might try again with my other glasses but from what I understand it's likely a no-go.
The later OLEDs do apparently have BFI but the implementation isn't great. That could improve though.
I started a thread about it a while back, also I have a thread here somewhere with loads of info from blurbusters.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
[quote="Pauldusler"]huh? I did not know that you just have to modify the ID. Why did we do EDID overrides all the years then? [/quote]
The main reason is because EDID overrides were simpler. Especially when HDMI 1.4 came out with extension blocks that contained the display id. There were not any good EDID Editors to alter the id in the extension block until later.
The biggest thing when working with EDIDs and Editors, is getting a correct "checksum" value
I'm not sure when ToastyX added the display id portion of CRU, but it wasn't in early revisions that I used.
There's a list of whitelisted displays that is a txt.file whitin the installed Nvidia driver folders. It's not hard to find.
Pauldusler said:huh? I did not know that you just have to modify the ID. Why did we do EDID overrides all the years then?
The main reason is because EDID overrides were simpler. Especially when HDMI 1.4 came out with extension blocks that contained the display id. There were not any good EDID Editors to alter the id in the extension block until later.
The biggest thing when working with EDIDs and Editors, is getting a correct "checksum" value
I'm not sure when ToastyX added the display id portion of CRU, but it wasn't in early revisions that I used.
There's a list of whitelisted displays that is a txt.file whitin the installed Nvidia driver folders. It's not hard to find.
Yes, I was able to get 3D Vision to fire on all test panels. I am not exaggerating, but crosstalk was so bad that it looked the same with glasses on or off, basically double images. I assume is a problem of VA panel refresh rate (4ms).
I did not try the CHG70 monitor, but that one has an advertised 1ms, so it might be better.
Yes, I was able to get 3D Vision to fire on all test panels. I am not exaggerating, but crosstalk was so bad that it looked the same with glasses on or off, basically double images. I assume is a problem of VA panel refresh rate (4ms).
I did not try the CHG70 monitor, but that one has an advertised 1ms, so it might be better.
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K @ 3.50GHz
MB: Asus P8Z77-V DELUXE
RAM: 32.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 799MHz (10-10-10-27)
VGA: Asus Strix GTX 1070 2x SLI
DISPLAY: Asus ROG PG278QR
OS: Windows 10 Home 64-bit
I ran 3d vision on my CHG32, played rocket league for about half an hour before my eyes were sore. The 3d was fine for distant objects, but it was looking at my car that was painful. Maybe this can be resolved by fiddling with the timings? nvtimings.ini is layed out like a csv table, I converted it from hexadecimal to a table so you can all look at it. One way to do this would be:
Pre-setup: Set monitor id to DELA0D1
#1 Change settings for one of the 20 number values corresponding to the DELA0D1 Timings
#2 Restart Drivers
#3 Run 3d Vision Test
#4 Change Values
#5 Restart Drivers Again
#6 3d Vision Test
#7 Ask User Which Looked Better
#8 Repeat until you eventually whittle away the optimal timings
I don't quite have the technical skills to code this, and especially not using windows. It's further complicated by having 20 different values and 2 unique entries already for DELA0D1
I'm going to try first setting 3d up on my linux partition, which might give me more control over the timings.
Is it ghosting really bad? That usually doesn't "hurt" your eyes if it's nominal.
Try adjusting the depth and convergence to where it is comfortable. Some games can be toyified without eye strain, in others, you are better to back off to avoid discomfort.
Is it ghosting really bad? That usually doesn't "hurt" your eyes if it's nominal.
Try adjusting the depth and convergence to where it is comfortable. Some games can be toyified without eye strain, in others, you are better to back off to avoid discomfort.
I know it's subjective, but are you saying that the VA panels have too much ghosting in your experience?
A lot of us are probably in the same place, where we want a panel with great contrast, colours and HDR, but need the response times of TN for a decent 3d experience.
It seems to me that VA has the best contrast due to the deep blacks and has decent colours, IPS is available for better colours (and is more reponsive) or we have TN, which is the fastest but is not currently available with quantum dot or any other enhancements, outside of faster and faster panels.
I look forward to Micro LEDs or OLED monitors, if it ever happens in the next 5 years or so!!
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
Dell tried to publish a OLED monitor but they failed due to the costs. The problem is that every second OLED panel has to be thrown away during production because it's faulty. So Manufacturers lose half of their panels. The strategy to compensate this financal loss during production is that they need a lot of buyers. And indeed for TVs and smartphones this works - there are many buyers for OLED Smartphones and OLED TVs. A lot of people are willing to spend unreasonably money for this. Why? Because they like to have a High-End TV in the living room. They like to present it to friends or other people coming to their homes - it's prestige! Also they like to have a high-End smartphone with OLED. Every year they buy a new model because it's even more prestige than TVs! They can show it all the time to other people! I guess it's at least 50% of their reason to spend this money. But how much money do they spend for monitors? 100€? 200€? Because no one of their friends and people care about what monitor they have. They can not show off with that. So monitor market is doomed to be stuck on TN / IPS / VA.
Don't understand me wrong. For example I'm not talking about people who bought an OLED TV in 2016 just due to great 3D capability - I'm talking about that mass of people just buying a TV and smartphone every year - just of prestige reasons. And this are the majority of people (of course not all!) And ironically this is the reason why OLED TVs and OLED smartphones even exist! Monitors are just not prestige! The existence of OLED only works if a lot of people are willing to spend a lot of money! Nobody wants to spend a lot of money for monitors. Maybe a small group of people like us - this small community - but that's not enough. But we would buy that because of great black levels and not for showing off. And one monitor every 4-5 years would be enough.
I mean what is the reason that you find 500 TVs but only 5 monitors in electrontric markets presented on their walls? ;)
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de
BTW, my three previous monitors were IPS and I grew tired of the disappointing contrast ratios, so for me, a TN panel would have been a downgrade in terms of picture quality. The need for an ultrawide for work-related reasons also weighed in my decision which further disqualified TN technology as a valid option.
I'd also keep an eye on the OLED TVs as well, even though passive 3D support was dropped in 2017, the newer models now accept 120Hz input at 1080p, so maybe they could be made to work with the 3D Vision kit.
Yeap, I snatched one for this very purpose before they were gone for good, so no offence taken ;)
Thanks for the feedback, very useful.
I've already tried 3d vision on an OLED that supports 120Hz input and the results were useless. Mainly because there is no black frame insertion/ULMB and the OLEDs are always lit, so the image bleeds through the glasses. I might try again with my other glasses but from what I understand it's likely a no-go.
The later OLEDs do apparently have BFI but the implementation isn't great. That could improve though.
I started a thread about it a while back, also I have a thread here somewhere with loads of info from blurbusters.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
The main reason is because EDID overrides were simpler. Especially when HDMI 1.4 came out with extension blocks that contained the display id. There were not any good EDID Editors to alter the id in the extension block until later.
The biggest thing when working with EDIDs and Editors, is getting a correct "checksum" value
I'm not sure when ToastyX added the display id portion of CRU, but it wasn't in early revisions that I used.
There's a list of whitelisted displays that is a txt.file whitin the installed Nvidia driver folders. It's not hard to find.
I did not try the CHG70 monitor, but that one has an advertised 1ms, so it might be better.
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K @ 3.50GHz
MB: Asus P8Z77-V DELUXE
RAM: 32.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 799MHz (10-10-10-27)
VGA: Asus Strix GTX 1070 2x SLI
DISPLAY: Asus ROG PG278QR
OS: Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Pre-setup: Set monitor id to DELA0D1
#1 Change settings for one of the 20 number values corresponding to the DELA0D1 Timings
#2 Restart Drivers
#3 Run 3d Vision Test
#4 Change Values
#5 Restart Drivers Again
#6 3d Vision Test
#7 Ask User Which Looked Better
#8 Repeat until you eventually whittle away the optimal timings
I don't quite have the technical skills to code this, and especially not using windows. It's further complicated by having 20 different values and 2 unique entries already for DELA0D1
I'm going to try first setting 3d up on my linux partition, which might give me more control over the timings.
Table with hexadecimal conversion: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UaN9mJkjzb5Hlst91BIPZujAEuy-2WTp/view?usp=sharing
Hexadecimal table:
Try adjusting the depth and convergence to where it is comfortable. Some games can be toyified without eye strain, in others, you are better to back off to avoid discomfort.