I am the new one-spending 3000€+ on 3D rig...need help
  2 / 4    
Flaw with this logic is the fact their appears to be a bit of variation between the screens regardless. My first PG278QR had awful crosstalk, my second one is unnoticeable except on snow like vistas with very high contrast, also people have a habit of not calibrating their settings for 3d properly. I also don't find test pictures and video a very useful compared to seeing it in a real world setting so it's not really a case of laziness on my part and I suspect other may feel the same. As Bo3b has mentioned in the past Projector appears to be the only way to go if you can not abide crosstalk. Personally I would rather have a bit as a tradeoff for the best image quality and fame rate/ least input lag possible.
Flaw with this logic is the fact their appears to be a bit of variation between the screens regardless. My first PG278QR had awful crosstalk, my second one is unnoticeable except on snow like vistas with very high contrast, also people have a habit of not calibrating their settings for 3d properly. I also don't find test pictures and video a very useful compared to seeing it in a real world setting so it's not really a case of laziness on my part and I suspect other may feel the same.

As Bo3b has mentioned in the past Projector appears to be the only way to go if you can not abide crosstalk. Personally I would rather have a bit as a tradeoff for the best image quality and fame rate/ least input lag possible.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#16
Posted 03/19/2018 01:06 AM   
Wow Guys,...thank you for all the responses. I already read 200+ pages here projector/monitor,..so you are kinda superstars for me ;) I never register in Forums, always passive reading, but this will change here. 3D Vision forces you to socialise here. :) I also wanna say a big thx to all the people doing the hard work here, if they do it private or getting shadow payed by nvidia, to help to keep the patient alive at a minimum cost. !!! THANKY YOU HELIFAX and Co!!!!! !!! THANKY YOU HELIFAX and Co!!!!! [quote="Necropants"]Once you go 3D you will not go back, yes even competitively. I play tekken Competitively maybe one of the hardest games to do so, and I am convinced 3D actually gives me an advantage. I can see where moves are going to land and avoid them, it makes spacing so much easier because the game is in a true 3d space. Unsure about shooters but I think I play better in 3d there too, and as for driving it just not even debatable. I think PG278QR is the best option at this time. Masterotaku (and myself) seems reasonably satisfied with it and he is picky. Unsure about projector input lag but the Asus is about as minimal as you can ask for. If you are concerned about input lag Id wager you might be in monitor territory only. Someone correct me if I am wrong. However make sure you can pair it was a monster graphics card and even preferably SLI if you want to play max graphics in the 60fps ballpark at 1440p. Some people here are tolerant of lower frame rates, I am not one of them. If you think this might be an issue then go for a 1080p screen. Also not sure about 4k options at this time, but in theory you could run one at 1080 without the image degradation due to it scaling down 1:1 Also warning. Star citizen I heard was changing to Vulcan, if it is not already so it won't work with 3dvision I don't think. That aside I dont think it ever worked properly anyway [/quote] Good Info. ONE 1080ti is my max budget for graphics card,...and yes I don't like turning details ingame down. I guess 1080p 3D is not an option on that monitor, since I know it is not good showing 1080p on 1440p native. But I am NOT sensitive to lower fps YET! I was top 3 in world in project reality in 0.6, and I played with less than 20 fps!!! If someone threw a smoke greande, I had slideshow,..but still owned somehow. Since today still the best FPS shooter I know, started as BF2 mod, now it's a FREE standalone. No Money involved, try it out,...it's a bit like ARMA, great community. Games like BF1 are like a circlejerk of 14year olds, no tactic, no teamplay. I like project reality, name is Program. Microfone for teamplay required. When I play at friends sometimes, 45fps+ feels like superfluid for me. Here it says: [color="orange"]Withcer 3 WQHD- gtx1080ti[/color] :: [color="green"] 108fps.[/color] http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review,26.html So 45+ frames possible? What is the formula?(I know every game diff) [color="green"] framerate * 0.4 = perfomance in 3D Vision? so 108fps~43fps??[/color] If not I skip the game, or wait for Projector, will start with Monitor first, after all is setup and tested, will take some time, I can still buy projector. [quote="Metal-O-Holic"]4k is awsome Yes but still i would say 3d@1080p is still hands down 10 times awsome. No going back to 2D Atleast for me. QM you Are asking hard questions. Its almoust all a personal preference. Dual projector rig is the umtilate setup but its gonna cost you 2 projectors plus Atleast 1500-2000 On top of projectors. There is no flicker and other benefits but its like cruiseship. Hard to turnaround but still worth the trouble many times. [/quote] I know you both use that Monitor, but posts like this give me doubt: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1026845/3d-vision/asus-pg278qr-severe-ghosting-crosstalk-in-some-games/1/ Hope ghosting doesn't ruin the fun for me, but superbauch already told me, that it isn't that big of a problem. But I guess I just take the risk and trust you guys. I have nothing to compare it too, in regards to its 3D, but will post ghosting rabbits for our database here for you. Thx for confirmation that 3D competitive is an option. Any kind of list of games that are playable online with perfect cursor? How about the most common ones like BF1? The new [color="green"]Hunt Showdown[/color] seems a game of my choice, seems no 3d since I found nothing here on this forum, maybe future. Ok I read about vulkan a lot, know I know what it is. An alternative to directX.= no 3D Star Citizen will be the game of my dreams once it's ready to play, and yes I am a believer that they will deliver. I hope they make any kind of 3D or VR support. But I am VERY confident they will. at least VR. I have the feeling I will end up with Monitor +projector + VR 2.0
Wow Guys,...thank you for all the responses.
I already read 200+ pages here projector/monitor,..so you are kinda superstars for me ;)

I never register in Forums, always passive reading, but this will change here.
3D Vision forces you to socialise here. :)

I also wanna say a big thx to all the people doing the hard work here, if they do it private or getting shadow payed by nvidia, to help to keep the patient alive at a minimum cost.

!!! THANKY YOU HELIFAX and Co!!!!!
!!! THANKY YOU HELIFAX and Co!!!!!


Necropants said:Once you go 3D you will not go back, yes even competitively. I play tekken Competitively maybe one of the hardest games to do so, and I am convinced 3D actually gives me an advantage. I can see where moves are going to land and avoid them, it makes spacing so much easier because the game is in a true 3d space. Unsure about shooters but I think I play better in 3d there too, and as for driving it just not even debatable.

I think PG278QR is the best option at this time. Masterotaku (and myself) seems reasonably satisfied with it and he is picky.

Unsure about projector input lag but the Asus is about as minimal as you can ask for. If you are concerned about input lag Id wager you might be in monitor territory only. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

However make sure you can pair it was a monster graphics card and even preferably SLI if you want to play max graphics in the 60fps ballpark at 1440p. Some people here are tolerant of lower frame rates, I am not one of them.

If you think this might be an issue then go for a 1080p screen. Also not sure about 4k options at this time, but in theory you could run one at 1080 without the image degradation due to it scaling down 1:1

Also warning. Star citizen I heard was changing to Vulcan, if it is not already so it won't work with 3dvision I don't think. That aside I dont think it ever worked properly anyway



Good Info.
ONE 1080ti is my max budget for graphics card,...and yes I don't like turning details ingame down. I guess 1080p 3D is not an option on that monitor, since I know it is not good showing 1080p on 1440p native.

But I am NOT sensitive to lower fps YET!
I was top 3 in world in project reality in 0.6, and I played with less than 20 fps!!!
If someone threw a smoke greande, I had slideshow,..but still owned somehow.
Since today still the best FPS shooter I know, started as BF2 mod, now it's a FREE standalone. No Money involved, try it out,...it's a bit like ARMA, great community.
Games like BF1 are like a circlejerk of 14year olds, no tactic, no teamplay.
I like project reality, name is Program. Microfone for teamplay required.

When I play at friends sometimes, 45fps+ feels like superfluid for me.

Here it says: Withcer 3 WQHD- gtx1080ti
:: 108fps.


http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review,26.html


So 45+ frames possible?
What is the formula?(I know every game diff) framerate * 0.4 = perfomance in 3D Vision? so 108fps~43fps??

If not I skip the game, or wait for Projector, will start with Monitor first, after all is setup and tested, will take some time, I can still buy projector.

Metal-O-Holic said:4k is awsome Yes but still i would say 3d@1080p is still hands down 10 times awsome.
No going back to 2D Atleast for me.
QM you Are asking hard questions. Its almoust all a personal preference.
Dual projector rig is the umtilate setup but its gonna cost you 2 projectors plus Atleast 1500-2000
On top of projectors.
There is no flicker and other benefits but its like cruiseship. Hard to turnaround but still worth the trouble many times.


I know you both use that Monitor, but posts like this give me doubt:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1026845/3d-vision/asus-pg278qr-severe-ghosting-crosstalk-in-some-games/1/


Hope ghosting doesn't ruin the fun for me, but superbauch already told me, that it isn't that big of a problem.
But I guess I just take the risk and trust you guys.
I have nothing to compare it too, in regards to its 3D, but will post ghosting rabbits for our database here for you.

Thx for confirmation that 3D competitive is an option.

Any kind of list of games that are playable online with perfect cursor?
How about the most common ones like BF1?
The new Hunt Showdown seems a game of my choice, seems no 3d since I found nothing here on this forum, maybe future.

Ok I read about vulkan a lot, know I know what it is. An alternative to directX.= no 3D

Star Citizen will be the game of my dreams once it's ready to play, and yes I am a believer that they will deliver. I hope they make any kind of 3D or VR support. But I am VERY confident they will. at least VR.
I have the feeling I will end up with Monitor +projector + VR 2.0

+Inter-Tech m-908 Tower with INFINTY MIRROR
+Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming 2.0
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16GB DDR4
+Intel Core i7-8700K
+Gigabyte RTX 2080
+DEEPCOOL GAMMAXX GT BK RGB CPU-Kühler
+Samsung 960 EVO 500GB SSD M.2, Samsung 860 PRO 500GB SSD, 2TB HDD
+Thermaltake Smart RGB 700W PC-Netzteil
+Monitor: PG278QR

#17
Posted 03/19/2018 01:44 AM   
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]4k is awsome Yes but still i would say 3d@1080p is still hands down 10 times awsome. No going back to 2D Atleast for me. [/quote] These are the kind of posts, that encouraged me to try it in the first place, thx again. Maybe 1080p should be a consideration for me, since I will have only one 1080ti, but 1080p feels oldschool. I prefer playing in 1080p with max details, than playing higher resolution with less detail. But thing is most new games are not in perfect 3D, so I will play most new ones in 1440p 2D anyway. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [color="green"]@BlackSharkfr[/color] Ok if dual projectors then it will be more like 2000€. 700€-800€ for good 1080p projector. I tried to find where to buy this [color="green"]VNS Geobox 303[/color]??? Only chinese spec site..no price...nothing on ebay!? nothing on google!! lol Good tips on dual setup,...no problem painting room black. [quote="BlackSharkfr"] In my opinion, there are 3 main reasons for choosing dual-projectors : #1 - Passive picture (easier on the eyes due to lack of flicker, simultaneous view, no battery in the glasses) #2 - Control over the projector's firmware (projectors run in 2D mode, all fireware features are available to you, no locked features, less input lag) #3 - 1080p60Hz input... and more ... because it's 2018 and there is still no consumer 3D projector with this highly requested feature. I've been doing it since day one (2010) with my dual-pj system. [/quote] Read so often here that people love dual projectors, thx for clarification. #2 VERY important...thx..easy to overlook. [color="orange"]doesn't the[/color] [color="green"]ht2550 /w1700 [/color] [color="orange"]have 2D: 1080p 120hz? 3D: 1080p 60hz???[/color] I am not the couch gamer,...even movies sitting straight on desk and close to monitor. [quote="BlackSharkfr"] One very important thing you need to know about 3D is that YOU CANNOT SWITCH INSTANTLY FROM 3D TO 2D. When you play a game in 3D your brain learns to navigate the image in 3D. When you switch back to 2D, your brain is confused and tries to move your eyes into the 3D depth and fails (because you're playing on a 2D screen). There will be a period where you have difficulties watching the 2D screen and be totally incapable of competitive play. [/quote] Good info,but easy solutions. This reminds me of the very first days of 3D games. Here a little story of mine, with my first experience with Wolfenstein 3D from 1992!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_3D [color="orange"][color="green"]Every day I came from school, and played that f****g game, everytime I got kinda motion sick, so sick that I often even threw up, and always needed to sleep for 1-2 hours,after 1-2 hours of playing. 2 hours was the maximum I could play this, before going to bed, cause I felt so bad. Every day after my gaming session I sweared to myself that tomorrow I WON'T PLAY THAT STUPID GAME!! The next day I came from school and immediately sat in front of the PC and played it again. After 1-2 hours I threw up and went to bed, and sweared that tomorrow.... This went on for quiet a few weeks/months! lol [/color][/color] I know it was not 100% real 3D, and I think that was the problem. With the first DOOM after that, their where no problems at all. I also got really really sick trying out playstation VR and resident evil. My sister even realized how white I was in the face. It was horrible,needed to lay down afterwards, but the VR experince was much better then I expected---awesome. But the problem is that this 3D is not perfect yet, little inconsistencies, which fucks my brain. [quote="Metal-O-Holic"] I have both omega dlp and lcd filtters laying around...been saving them some crazy project. Maby i could sell the other pair if anyone needs. maby ,,,LOL[/quote] First I buy Monitor, until all is setup and games running in 3D, which will take some time. I will know more and will decide about projectors...thx for offer. [quote="M0urn"][quote="lou4612"]Until these new projectors come out PG278QR owner here....go 1440P 3D or go home[/quote] I agree with this comment, I think his is the newer version of what I have (see signature). I have not seen the projectors version of 3d and that might be better in the new releases. For now though I would vote for a 1440p 3d monitor until something better is ready. 1080p is fine but when your used to 1440p 1080 looks terrible. [/quote] I see you have also only ONE 1080ti..so I guess 1440p would not be a bad choice.
Metal-O-Holic said:4k is awsome Yes but still i would say 3d@1080p is still hands down 10 times awsome.
No going back to 2D Atleast for me.


These are the kind of posts, that encouraged me to try it in the first place, thx again.

Maybe 1080p should be a consideration for me, since I will have only one 1080ti, but 1080p feels oldschool.
I prefer playing in 1080p with max details, than playing higher resolution with less detail.

But thing is most new games are not in perfect 3D, so I will play most new ones in 1440p 2D anyway.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@BlackSharkfr

Ok if dual projectors then it will be more like 2000€.
700€-800€ for good 1080p projector.

I tried to find where to buy this VNS Geobox 303???
Only chinese spec site..no price...nothing on ebay!? nothing on google!! lol

Good tips on dual setup,...no problem painting room black.


BlackSharkfr said:
In my opinion, there are 3 main reasons for choosing dual-projectors :
#1 - Passive picture (easier on the eyes due to lack of flicker, simultaneous view, no battery in the glasses)
#2 - Control over the projector's firmware (projectors run in 2D mode, all fireware features are available to you, no locked features, less input lag)
#3 - 1080p60Hz input... and more ... because it's 2018 and there is still no consumer 3D projector with this highly requested feature. I've been doing it since day one (2010) with my dual-pj system.


Read so often here that people love dual projectors, thx for clarification.
#2 VERY important...thx..easy to overlook.

doesn't the ht2550 /w1700 have 2D: 1080p 120hz? 3D: 1080p 60hz???

I am not the couch gamer,...even movies sitting straight on desk and close to monitor.

BlackSharkfr said:
One very important thing you need to know about 3D is that YOU CANNOT SWITCH INSTANTLY FROM 3D TO 2D.
When you play a game in 3D your brain learns to navigate the image in 3D. When you switch back to 2D, your brain is confused and tries to move your eyes into the 3D depth and fails (because you're playing on a 2D screen). There will be a period where you have difficulties watching the 2D screen and be totally incapable of competitive play.


Good info,but easy solutions.

This reminds me of the very first days of 3D games.
Here a little story of mine, with my first experience with Wolfenstein 3D from 1992!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_3D


Every day I came from school, and played that f****g game, everytime I got kinda motion sick, so sick that I often even threw up, and always needed to sleep for 1-2 hours,after 1-2 hours of playing.
2 hours was the maximum I could play this, before going to bed, cause I felt so bad.

Every day after my gaming session I sweared to myself that tomorrow I WON'T PLAY THAT STUPID GAME!!

The next day I came from school and immediately sat in front of the PC and played it again.
After 1-2 hours I threw up and went to bed, and sweared that tomorrow....
This went on for quiet a few weeks/months! lol


I know it was not 100% real 3D, and I think that was the problem. With the first DOOM after that, their where no problems at all.

I also got really really sick trying out playstation VR and resident evil.
My sister even realized how white I was in the face. It was horrible,needed to lay down afterwards, but the VR experince was much better then I expected---awesome.

But the problem is that this 3D is not perfect yet, little inconsistencies, which fucks my brain.
Metal-O-Holic said:
I have both omega dlp and lcd filtters laying around...been saving them some crazy project.
Maby i could sell the other pair if anyone needs. maby ,,,LOL


First I buy Monitor, until all is setup and games running in 3D, which will take some time. I will know more and will decide about projectors...thx for offer.
M0urn said:
lou4612 said:Until these new projectors come out
PG278QR owner here....go 1440P 3D or go home


I agree with this comment, I think his is the newer version of what I have (see signature).

I have not seen the projectors version of 3d and that might be better in the new releases. For now though I would vote for a 1440p 3d monitor until something better is ready. 1080p is fine but when your used to 1440p 1080 looks terrible.


I see you have also only ONE 1080ti..so I guess 1440p would not be a bad choice.

+Inter-Tech m-908 Tower with INFINTY MIRROR
+Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming 2.0
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16GB DDR4
+Intel Core i7-8700K
+Gigabyte RTX 2080
+DEEPCOOL GAMMAXX GT BK RGB CPU-Kühler
+Samsung 960 EVO 500GB SSD M.2, Samsung 860 PRO 500GB SSD, 2TB HDD
+Thermaltake Smart RGB 700W PC-Netzteil
+Monitor: PG278QR

#18
Posted 03/19/2018 02:38 AM   
[quote="Quantummagic"]Any kind of list of games that are playable online with perfect cursor?[/quote] What perfect cursor mean? I like to do Quick Play in MechWarrior Online, there is a 3D Vision option in it even though 3D is pretty fixed and not really tunable I enjoy it. Diablo 3 was great but I quit playing months ago.
Quantummagic said:Any kind of list of games that are playable online with perfect cursor?

What perfect cursor mean?

I like to do Quick Play in MechWarrior Online, there is a 3D Vision option in it even though 3D is pretty fixed and not really tunable I enjoy it.

Diablo 3 was great but I quit playing months ago.

3D Vision must live! NVIDIA, don't let us down!

#19
Posted 03/19/2018 02:46 AM   
[quote="masterotaku"][quote="Quantummagic"] [color="orange"][i]QUESTION 0:[/i][/color] Gaming on projector+3d that much better than Monitor+3D?[/quote] I don't know about this. Currently you'd be limited to 720p 60fps or 1080p 24fps, using a projector. But they have other advantages. Crosstalk and contrast, I guess? [/quote] Again the HT2550 / w1700 has 3D 1080p@ 60hz!!???? So hard to find info regarding 3D on this projector, seen and read all there is to this projector. Only 3D movies-quality mentioned a bit here and then, nothing about PC-3D gaming. [quote="whyme466"]Quantummagic - as another (more expensive) alternative, some of us in this forum REALLY like our 4k passive 3D OLED displays. If you can still find a LG 55C6, 55E6, 65C6, or 65E6 - you should really try to get it. The quality of the display matches your new build. I have completed MANY combat intensive (control-lag sensitive) games like Dark Souls 3 and The Surge, and I never found the E6's approx. 34 msec lag to be an issue. For a good setup guide, I suggest starting here - [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/943900/3d-vision/search-information-about-edid-for-3dvision-on-lg-oled-4k-55ef950v-55ef9500-/post/5069058/#5069058[/url].[/quote] Here good list on input lag of devices: https://displaylag.com/display-database/ 34ms would be acceptable for me,...but 52ms is a bit different. according to this list, 62ms is the start of being bad. But I will try the HT2550 w1700 once I have my rig, and share my impression here with you. @masterotaku Once you told someone who wanted to buy the PG278QR to hold his horse and PM you for a better solution ;) So wondering what that little secret was ? can try to find link if you forgot..... OK thx for the help guys, it's going to be a 1440p monitor first. But still not so sure about the PG278QR see here: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1032223/ https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1026845/3d-vision/asus-pg278qr-severe-ghosting-crosstalk-in-some-games/1/ xl2420tx 24inch will be too small for me, at least I would like to have 27inch. [color="orange"]It's so hard to find info on gaming monitors regarding 3D-PC. Are there any other places to look for on the net than here?[/color] [quote="Rhialto"]I've tried 2 PG278QR and returned both because crosstalk was worse than my current BenQ XL2420TX. You can find a previous thread of mine [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1032223/]here[/url] with a link to pics. I've build a new rig and really wanted to get 1440p 3D and keep the XL2420TX for the second computer. Unfortunatly, even if the PG278QR seems to be an obvious choice when reading here, I believe it's because current owners didn't have a BenQ before to compare so to them the 3D is great. Don't get me wrong, in some situation it is, but in others it is not and I could simply not buy worse than my current BenQ so today 3 months later with a powerful new rig I'm still playing on my BenQ and I'm frustrated because I don't know what else to buy. There is the PG27VQ but it is expensive and my feeling is that if it's still use the ASUS hardware to process 3D then it won't be any better.[/quote] [color="orange"]I somehow got the feeling the PG278QR is overhyped here!!![/color] [quote="Gryzor_"]I prefer my Asus 1080p 144 Hz 3D Vision monitor over my Benq w700 3D 720p projector with a 4m screen. I've tried Uncharted and Crash Bandicoot Trilogy (PS4 Pro) on a high-end OLED TV with HDR and 4K, but the lag was ridiculously high and basically made both games completely unplayable for me. [/quote] Thx for info. Since I am used to low end spec PCs, I would be fine with most single player games on 50ms projector. But the problem is when I get my 1440p 144hz Monitor, I will know what fast response really is, and probably won't enjoy 50ms. But no problem,,monitor first then I can try out.(Never send something back in my life, but this will be good opportunity) [quote="Dugom"]If nobody does the rabbit, we will never find the better 3D display... I've said that about 20 times now, but people are so lazy, it's only 4 shots meaning 10 mins, 15 tops. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/?offset=32#5276230[/url] [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1001005/3d-vision/samsung-tv-3d-settings-to-low-crosstalk-crosstalk-comparison-/post/5114094/#5114094[/url] [/quote] YEAH DUGOM!! one of the best threads here...more pics pls guys!! Just a damn telephone camera and a ghosting pic. You guys are here for years!! and still you have no comparing pics here!! No Comparisson of these monitors? Just more like, everyone has it, so everyone buys it. You sure there is nothing better? [b][color="orange"]You are the last hope of 3D vision, nowhere else to find this detailed stuff. Hard data and facts would be appreciated :))[/color] [/b][quote="Necropants"]Flaw with this logic is the fact their appears to be a bit of variation between the screens regardless. My first PG278QR had awful crosstalk, my second one is unnoticeable except on snow like vistas with very high contrast, also people have a habit of not calibrating their settings for 3d properly. I also don't find test pictures and video a very useful compared to seeing it in a real world setting so it's not really a case of laziness on my part and I suspect other may feel the same. As Bo3b has mentioned in the past Projector appears to be the only way to go if you can not abide crosstalk. Personally I would rather have a bit as a tradeoff for the best image quality and fame rate/ least input lag possible.[/quote] thx helped alot, confirming that ghosting is not too much of an issue. THIS is exactly the reason why we need ghosting pics database!! When I get a PG278QR I don't even know if my model has ok ghosting, or if I was unlucky and got a bad one. Pictures can help here.
masterotaku said:
Quantummagic said:
QUESTION 0: Gaming on projector+3d that much better than Monitor+3D?


I don't know about this. Currently you'd be limited to 720p 60fps or 1080p 24fps, using a projector. But they have other advantages. Crosstalk and contrast, I guess?


Again the HT2550 / w1700 has 3D 1080p@ 60hz!!????

So hard to find info regarding 3D on this projector, seen and read all there is to this projector. Only 3D movies-quality mentioned a bit here and then, nothing about PC-3D gaming.


whyme466 said:Quantummagic - as another (more expensive) alternative, some of us in this forum REALLY like our 4k passive 3D OLED displays. If you can still find a LG 55C6, 55E6, 65C6, or 65E6 - you should really try to get it. The quality of the display matches your new build. I have completed MANY combat intensive (control-lag sensitive) games like Dark Souls 3 and The Surge, and I never found the E6's approx. 34 msec lag to be an issue.

For a good setup guide, I suggest starting here - https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/943900/3d-vision/search-information-about-edid-for-3dvision-on-lg-oled-4k-55ef950v-55ef9500-/post/5069058/#5069058.


Here good list on input lag of devices:

https://displaylag.com/display-database/


34ms would be acceptable for me,...but 52ms is a bit different.
according to this list, 62ms is the start of being bad.

But I will try the HT2550 w1700 once I have my rig, and share my impression here with you.

@masterotaku

Once you told someone who wanted to buy the PG278QR to hold his horse and PM you for a better solution ;)
So wondering what that little secret was ? can try to find link if you forgot.....


OK thx for the help guys, it's going to be a 1440p monitor first.
But still not so sure about the PG278QR see here:


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1032223/

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1026845/3d-vision/asus-pg278qr-severe-ghosting-crosstalk-in-some-games/1/


xl2420tx

24inch will be too small for me, at least I would like to have 27inch.

It's so hard to find info on gaming monitors regarding 3D-PC. Are there any other places to look for on the net than here?
Rhialto said:I've tried 2 PG278QR and returned both because crosstalk was worse than my current BenQ XL2420TX. You can find a previous thread of mine here with a link to pics.

I've build a new rig and really wanted to get 1440p 3D and keep the XL2420TX for the second computer. Unfortunatly, even if the PG278QR seems to be an obvious choice when reading here, I believe it's because current owners didn't have a BenQ before to compare so to them the 3D is great.

Don't get me wrong, in some situation it is, but in others it is not and I could simply not buy worse than my current BenQ so today 3 months later with a powerful new rig I'm still playing on my BenQ and I'm frustrated because I don't know what else to buy.

There is the PG27VQ but it is expensive and my feeling is that if it's still use the ASUS hardware to process 3D then it won't be any better.


I somehow got the feeling the PG278QR is overhyped here!!!


Gryzor_ said:I prefer my Asus 1080p 144 Hz 3D Vision monitor over my Benq w700 3D 720p projector with a 4m screen.

I've tried Uncharted and Crash Bandicoot Trilogy (PS4 Pro) on a high-end OLED TV with HDR and 4K, but the lag was ridiculously high and basically made both games completely unplayable for me.


Thx for info. Since I am used to low end spec PCs, I would be fine with most single player games on 50ms projector. But the problem is when I get my 1440p 144hz Monitor, I will know what fast response really is, and probably won't enjoy 50ms.
But no problem,,monitor first then I can try out.(Never send something back in my life, but this will be good opportunity)



Dugom said:If nobody does the rabbit, we will never find the better 3D display...

I've said that about 20 times now, but people are so lazy, it's only 4 shots meaning 10 mins, 15 tops.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/?offset=32#5276230

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1001005/3d-vision/samsung-tv-3d-settings-to-low-crosstalk-crosstalk-comparison-/post/5114094/#5114094




YEAH DUGOM!!

one of the best threads here...more pics pls guys!!
Just a damn telephone camera and a ghosting pic.

You guys are here for years!! and still you have no comparing pics here!!
No Comparisson of these monitors? Just more like, everyone has it, so everyone buys it.
You sure there is nothing better?


You are the last hope of 3D vision, nowhere else to find this detailed stuff.
Hard data and facts would be appreciated :))

Necropants said:Flaw with this logic is the fact their appears to be a bit of variation between the screens regardless. My first PG278QR had awful crosstalk, my second one is unnoticeable except on snow like vistas with very high contrast, also people have a habit of not calibrating their settings for 3d properly. I also don't find test pictures and video a very useful compared to seeing it in a real world setting so it's not really a case of laziness on my part and I suspect other may feel the same.

As Bo3b has mentioned in the past Projector appears to be the only way to go if you can not abide crosstalk. Personally I would rather have a bit as a tradeoff for the best image quality and fame rate/ least input lag possible.


thx helped alot, confirming that ghosting is not too much of an issue.

THIS is exactly the reason why we need ghosting pics database!!
When I get a PG278QR I don't even know if my model has ok ghosting, or if I was unlucky and got a bad one.
Pictures can help here.

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+Monitor: PG278QR

#20
Posted 03/19/2018 03:21 AM   
[quote="Rhialto"][quote="Quantummagic"]Any kind of list of games that are playable online with perfect cursor?[/quote] What perfect cursor mean? [/quote] [quote="masterotaku"] In 3D it's harder to have a good crosshair to aim correctly (a dynamic 3D one is perfect, in games that have it). Imagine yourself aiming with a gun in real life without a crosshair. If you aim to the front and the gun is in the middle of your body, you can't make a straight "eye->gun->target" line. A good at-depth crosshair helps a lot, and seeing in 3D can make you measure distances a lot better. [/quote]
Rhialto said:
Quantummagic said:Any kind of list of games that are playable online with perfect cursor?

What perfect cursor mean?


masterotaku said:

In 3D it's harder to have a good crosshair to aim correctly (a dynamic 3D one is perfect, in games that have it). Imagine yourself aiming with a gun in real life without a crosshair. If you aim to the front and the gun is in the middle of your body, you can't make a straight "eye->gun->target" line. A good at-depth crosshair helps a lot, and seeing in 3D can make you measure distances a lot better.

+Inter-Tech m-908 Tower with INFINTY MIRROR
+Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming 2.0
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16GB DDR4
+Intel Core i7-8700K
+Gigabyte RTX 2080
+DEEPCOOL GAMMAXX GT BK RGB CPU-Kühler
+Samsung 960 EVO 500GB SSD M.2, Samsung 860 PRO 500GB SSD, 2TB HDD
+Thermaltake Smart RGB 700W PC-Netzteil
+Monitor: PG278QR

#21
Posted 03/19/2018 03:24 AM   
Necropants has a point on the ghosting subjects. Yes we could all make the rabbin test but there is great risk the result make the situation worse. What the testa does not include is whats called signal to noise ratio (atleast to my knoledge) that is more common to guys with dual projection. I Try to explain what i mean. When you see the Ghost image that is what is left from a blocked signal with you left or right eye is not the same when you see the image that is suppose to be seen, the channel image and the blocked channel image. Your yeys and brain lock on the correct image, blocking the Ghost image. So the difference when Normally whatching 3D is not the same when you just watch the Ghost image. Yes the ghosting if major is not nice but when there is high signal to noise ratio, the ghosting is not even visible to you though it actually is if You start looking for it with these Ghost test. Little hard to explain but my point is, the overal experience matters much more. Though there is always viewers personal oppinnions in play so. One really needs just to test these devices on their own. I think all blinking devices are unusable as OVERAL EXPERIENCE. That means everything exept dual pj and passive 3D. Tvs But thats just for ME and some others but you get my point. We are all different when it comes to 3D ect
Necropants has a point on the ghosting subjects.
Yes we could all make the rabbin test but there is great risk the result make the situation worse.
What the testa does not include is whats called signal to noise ratio (atleast to my knoledge) that is more common to guys with dual projection. I Try to explain what i mean.
When you see the Ghost image that is what is left from a blocked signal with you left or right eye is not the same when you see the image that is suppose to be seen, the channel image and the blocked channel image. Your yeys and brain lock on the correct image, blocking the Ghost image. So the difference when Normally whatching 3D is not the same when you just watch the Ghost image.
Yes the ghosting if major is not nice but when there is high signal to noise ratio, the ghosting is not even visible to you though it actually is if You start looking for it with these Ghost test.

Little hard to explain but my point is, the overal experience matters much more.
Though there is always viewers personal oppinnions in play so.
One really needs just to test these devices on their own.

I think all blinking devices are unusable as OVERAL EXPERIENCE. That means everything exept dual pj and passive 3D. Tvs
But thats just for ME and some others but you get my point. We are all different when it comes to 3D ect

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#22
Posted 03/19/2018 04:59 AM   
First of all let me start by saying that if you want the BEST 3d experience - you want to look for LG OLED C6 or E6 65”. I have both the 65”and the 55” and I also had the PG278QR but couldn’t stand the backlight bleeding on this so I returned it. You won’t find any 3d monitor/tv with no crosstalk at all. My 65”inch has min crosstalk and only in high contrast scene. My 55” got some more. I’m not sure you can find this tv as it’s becoming rare every day pass. The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people. You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..
First of all let me start by saying that if you want the BEST 3d experience - you want to look for LG OLED C6 or E6 65”.
I have both the 65”and the 55” and I also had the PG278QR but couldn’t stand the backlight bleeding on this so I returned it.
You won’t find any 3d monitor/tv with no crosstalk at all. My 65”inch has min crosstalk and only in high contrast scene. My 55” got some more. I’m not sure you can find this tv as it’s becoming rare every day pass.

The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people.
You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..

#23
Posted 03/19/2018 07:19 AM   
[quote="Quantummagic"] [color="green"]@BlackSharkfr[/color] I tried to find where to buy this [color="green"]VNS Geobox 303[/color]??? Only chinese spec site..no price...nothing on ebay!? nothing on google!! lol [color="orange"]doesn't the[/color] [color="green"]ht2550 /w1700 [/color] [color="orange"]have 2D: 1080p 120hz? 3D: 1080p 60hz???[/color] [/quote] If you are interested in the VNS Geobox, send an email to VNS directly, they'll give you a quote. (don't forget import taxes will be added by your contry's customs). That's how I bought mine. I just checked these two projectors manuals. (official benq website) Both projectors have 2D 1080p120Hz using the hdmi2.0 input but only supports 3D at the usual hdmi1.4a minimum specs. Worse : on the HT2550's specs webpage, it states 3D is only rendered in 720p.
Quantummagic said:
@BlackSharkfr

I tried to find where to buy this VNS Geobox 303???
Only chinese spec site..no price...nothing on ebay!? nothing on google!! lol

doesn't the ht2550 /w1700 have 2D: 1080p 120hz? 3D: 1080p 60hz???

If you are interested in the VNS Geobox, send an email to VNS directly, they'll give you a quote.
(don't forget import taxes will be added by your contry's customs). That's how I bought mine.

I just checked these two projectors manuals. (official benq website)
Both projectors have 2D 1080p120Hz using the hdmi2.0 input but only supports 3D at the usual hdmi1.4a minimum specs.
Worse : on the HT2550's specs webpage, it states 3D is only rendered in 720p.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#24
Posted 03/19/2018 09:36 AM   
[quote="Quantummagic"]Thx for info. Since I am used to low end spec PCs, I would be fine with most single player games on 50ms projector. But the problem is when I get my 1440p 144hz Monitor, I will know what fast response really is, and probably won't enjoy 50ms. [/quote] The biggest drawback to a projector, is having the room to properly set it up and having light control over the area. 100% darkness is best in most situations, to avoid a washed out picture. Placement is also vital to avoid hotspotting and fan noise. But from what you mentioned, it seems that you have ample room. I do know, that if I'm struggling with a game on any of my displays due to lag/slow response, I fire up one of my projectors and its "problem solved". I have 3 Passive displays, 4 active displays and 3 projectors. I use my S2716DG the most, simply because it's more convenient than a PJ and 1440P really irons out the jaggies. You'll find that no matter what display you choose, it will not be perfect. Each choice has some minor trade off or another.
Quantummagic said:Thx for info. Since I am used to low end spec PCs, I would be fine with most single player games on 50ms projector. But the problem is when I get my 1440p 144hz Monitor, I will know what fast response really is, and probably won't enjoy 50ms.


The biggest drawback to a projector, is having the room to properly set it up and having light control over the area. 100% darkness is best in most situations, to avoid a washed out picture. Placement is also vital to avoid hotspotting and fan noise. But from what you mentioned, it seems that you have ample room.

I do know, that if I'm struggling with a game on any of my displays due to lag/slow response, I fire up one of my projectors and its "problem solved". I have 3 Passive displays, 4 active displays and 3 projectors. I use my S2716DG the most, simply because it's more convenient than a PJ and 1440P really irons out the jaggies.

You'll find that no matter what display you choose, it will not be perfect. Each choice has some minor trade off or another.

#25
Posted 03/19/2018 09:56 AM   
[quote="Necropants"]I also don't find test pictures and video a very useful compared to seeing it in a real world setting so it's not really a case of laziness on my part and I suspect other may feel the same.[/quote]In four pictures you can see all 3D ghost possible, and its easy to fix, just make the rabbit dissapear. To spot Crosstalk in movie or games it will be a lot more difficult, to easily spot it you need flat color, minimum textures, low details, big depth or it will be hidden (probably appear blurred). My pattern does that. .
Necropants said:I also don't find test pictures and video a very useful compared to seeing it in a real world setting so it's not really a case of laziness on my part and I suspect other may feel the same.
In four pictures you can see all 3D ghost possible, and its easy to fix, just make the rabbit dissapear.

To spot Crosstalk in movie or games it will be a lot more difficult, to easily spot it you need flat color, minimum textures, low details, big depth or it will be hidden (probably appear blurred).

My pattern does that.




.
[quote="Quantummagic"]ONE 1080ti is my max budget for graphics card,...and yes I don't like turning details ingame down. I guess 1080p 3D is not an option on that monitor, since I know it is not good showing 1080p on 1440p native. So 45+ frames possible? What is the formula?(I know every game diff) [color="green"] framerate * 0.4 = perfomance in 3D Vision? so 108fps~43fps??[/color][/quote] My fps of Witcher 3 in 3D with and without SLI (GTX 1080): [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/995196/3d-vision/how-important-is-cpu-performance-for-3d-vision-/post/5090636/#5090636[/url] Also, good CPU may help: [img]http://gamegpu.com/images/stories/Test_GPU/RPG/Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt_-_Blood/test/w3_proz.jpg[/img] http://gamegpu.com/rpg/%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5/witcher-3-wild-hunt-blood-and-wine-test-gpu Any way SLI helps great for average fps but it's not always that much for minimum fps. Plus sometimes SLI does not work at all or even destroy the fps, 1080Ti vs 1080Ti SLI + % of gain (italics are minimum fps): You can zoom in. [url=https://postimg.org/image/jgkptpcsr/][img]https://s17.postimg.org/jgkptpcsr/main-chart.jpg[/img][/url] https://babeltechreviews.com/gtx-1080-ti-sli-performance-25-games/3/ [quote="Quantummagic"]I know you both use that Monitor, but posts like this give me doubt: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1026845/3d-vision/asus-pg278qr-severe-ghosting-crosstalk-in-some-games/1/ Hope ghosting doesn't ruin the fun for me, but superbauch already told me, that it isn't that big of a problem. But I guess I just take the risk and trust you guys. I have nothing to compare it too, in regards to its 3D, but will post ghosting rabbits for our database here for you.[/quote] I'll post my crosstalk test of the ASUS 27" ROG Swift PG278QR very soon. I'll also test the Acer 27" Predator XB271HUT and the ASUS 27" ROG Swift PG27VQ, but no ETA yet. I don't know the BenQ 3D monitors, what are the references ? .
Quantummagic said:ONE 1080ti is my max budget for graphics card,...and yes I don't like turning details ingame down. I guess 1080p 3D is not an option on that monitor, since I know it is not good showing 1080p on 1440p native.

So 45+ frames possible?
What is the formula?(I know every game diff) framerate * 0.4 = perfomance in 3D Vision? so 108fps~43fps??

My fps of Witcher 3 in 3D with and without SLI (GTX 1080):
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/995196/3d-vision/how-important-is-cpu-performance-for-3d-vision-/post/5090636/#5090636

Also, good CPU may help:
Image
http://gamegpu.com/rpg/%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5/witcher-3-wild-hunt-blood-and-wine-test-gpu

Any way SLI helps great for average fps but it's not always that much for minimum fps. Plus sometimes SLI does not work at all or even destroy the fps, 1080Ti vs 1080Ti SLI + % of gain (italics are minimum fps): You can zoom in.

Image
https://babeltechreviews.com/gtx-1080-ti-sli-performance-25-games/3/


Quantummagic said:I know you both use that Monitor, but posts like this give me doubt:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1026845/3d-vision/asus-pg278qr-severe-ghosting-crosstalk-in-some-games/1/

Hope ghosting doesn't ruin the fun for me, but superbauch already told me, that it isn't that big of a problem.
But I guess I just take the risk and trust you guys.
I have nothing to compare it too, in regards to its 3D, but will post ghosting rabbits for our database here for you.

I'll post my crosstalk test of the ASUS 27" ROG Swift PG278QR very soon.

I'll also test the Acer 27" Predator XB271HUT and the ASUS 27" ROG Swift PG27VQ, but no ETA yet.

I don't know the BenQ 3D monitors, what are the references ?

.
[quote="eitan8385"]The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people. You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..[/quote] Bla bla bla: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/post/4520351/#4520351[/url] We don't need it to represent exactly what our eyes see, it's to compare ! Yeah you'll have to take the picture face from the screen... shots from the back won't help, for sure. People hate to say that their expensive items are bad, so they always find excuses. I've seen it so many times, I can't even count them. .
eitan8385 said:The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people.
You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..

Bla bla bla:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/post/4520351/#4520351

We don't need it to represent exactly what our eyes see, it's to compare !

Yeah you'll have to take the picture face from the screen... shots from the back won't help, for sure.

People hate to say that their expensive items are bad, so they always find excuses. I've seen it so many times,
I can't even count them.



.
[quote="Dugom"][quote="eitan8385"]The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people. You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..[/quote] Bla bla bla: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/post/4520351/#4520351[/url] We don't need it to represent exactly what our eyes see, it's to compare ! Yeah you'll have to take the picture face from the screen... shots from the back won't help, for sure. People hate to say that their expensive items are bad, so they always find excuses. I've seen it so many times, I can't even count them. .[/quote] Are you a social psychologist? Cognitive dissonance investigator? I admit that my 55 has a bad crosstalk and that in some games it looks like shit! All I’m saying is this comparison you’re trying to make is not reliable and it could never be. It’s just perpetuating this obsessive compulsive tendency to look for flaws.. As I said there’s no perfect tv/monitor .. just accept it and go on man.
Dugom said:
eitan8385 said:The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people.
You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..

Bla bla bla:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/post/4520351/#4520351

We don't need it to represent exactly what our eyes see, it's to compare !

Yeah you'll have to take the picture face from the screen... shots from the back won't help, for sure.

People hate to say that their expensive items are bad, so they always find excuses. I've seen it so many times,
I can't even count them.



.


Are you a social psychologist? Cognitive dissonance investigator? I admit that my 55 has a bad crosstalk and that in some games it looks like shit!
All I’m saying is this comparison you’re trying to make is not reliable and it could never be. It’s just perpetuating this obsessive compulsive tendency to look for flaws..
As I said there’s no perfect tv/monitor .. just accept it and go on man.

#29
Posted 03/19/2018 02:05 PM   
[quote="eitan8385"][quote="Dugom"][quote="eitan8385"]The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people. You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..[/quote] Bla bla bla: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/post/4520351/#4520351[/url] We don't need it to represent exactly what our eyes see, it's to compare ! Yeah you'll have to take the picture face from the screen... shots from the back won't help, for sure. People hate to say that their expensive items are bad, so they always find excuses. I've seen it so many times, I can't even count them. .[/quote] Are you a social psychologist? Cognitive dissonance investigator? I admit that my 55 has a bad crosstalk and that in some games it looks like shit! All I’m saying is this comparison you’re trying to make is not reliable and it could never be. It just perpetuates this obsessive compulsive tendency to look for flaws.. As I said there’s no perfect tv/monitor .. just accept it and go on man.[/quote]
eitan8385 said:
Dugom said:
eitan8385 said:The reason I’m not uploading my rabbit tests is because I don’t think it’s got good reliability. The pic you take and the amount of crosstalk seen will depend very much on the exact angle of the camera. Also every one will take picture with different cameras .. and generally I think it will just confuse people.
You can’t transfer what your eyes see in reality..

Bla bla bla:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/3d-vision/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/post/4520351/#4520351

We don't need it to represent exactly what our eyes see, it's to compare !

Yeah you'll have to take the picture face from the screen... shots from the back won't help, for sure.

People hate to say that their expensive items are bad, so they always find excuses. I've seen it so many times,
I can't even count them.



.


Are you a social psychologist? Cognitive dissonance investigator? I admit that my 55 has a bad crosstalk and that in some games it looks like shit!
All I’m saying is this comparison you’re trying to make is not reliable and it could never be. It just perpetuates this obsessive compulsive tendency to look for flaws..
As I said there’s no perfect tv/monitor .. just accept it and go on man.

#30
Posted 03/19/2018 02:06 PM   
  2 / 4    
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