Semi-Reflective Glass Anyone know where to buy?
I'm working on a concept model to place an lcd monitor flat on it's back, flipped upside-down, and parallel to a front-facing monitor (the lcd will come from an OEM that has flipped the image). I need a semi-reflective glass that can reflect the bottom lcd monitor at a 45 degree angle to overlap with the front-facing monitor. The glass needs to be tinted, but probably not too the extent that one sees on large buildings or with a see-through mirror. More probably like what a mirror looks like if the back is not painted black.

In theory, the left and right output from a dual monitor setup from a top-bottom overlap should still work, as long as there is not too much depth displacement from the glass reflection. You could view the 3d image from any distance, as long as you were directly in front of the display (like an old SEGA arcade game).

I've done some goole searches, but I haven't found anything yet. Do you think a hardware store would sell something like this? Maybe someplace sells mirrors without the back painted? Or semi-reflective glass for windows?

Thanks
I'm working on a concept model to place an lcd monitor flat on it's back, flipped upside-down, and parallel to a front-facing monitor (the lcd will come from an OEM that has flipped the image). I need a semi-reflective glass that can reflect the bottom lcd monitor at a 45 degree angle to overlap with the front-facing monitor. The glass needs to be tinted, but probably not too the extent that one sees on large buildings or with a see-through mirror. More probably like what a mirror looks like if the back is not painted black.



In theory, the left and right output from a dual monitor setup from a top-bottom overlap should still work, as long as there is not too much depth displacement from the glass reflection. You could view the 3d image from any distance, as long as you were directly in front of the display (like an old SEGA arcade game).



I've done some goole searches, but I haven't found anything yet. Do you think a hardware store would sell something like this? Maybe someplace sells mirrors without the back painted? Or semi-reflective glass for windows?



Thanks

#1
Posted 07/30/2005 06:54 PM   
I've found sort of the setup I'm wanting at the site below, but it actually uses polarized glasses:
[url="http://fergasonpatents.com/sm/stereomirror_pamphlet.pdf"]http://fergasonpatents.com/sm/stereomirror_pamphlet.pdf[/url]

I could probably make the shelving pretty easily if I knew where to get the mirror from...I've tried searching for "transparent mirror", "half transparent mirror" and "reflective glass" on Google, but no online stores except for commercial use. The piece has to be about 17x22".

Thanks
I've found sort of the setup I'm wanting at the site below, but it actually uses polarized glasses:

http://fergasonpatents.com/sm/stereomirror_pamphlet.pdf



I could probably make the shelving pretty easily if I knew where to get the mirror from...I've tried searching for "transparent mirror", "half transparent mirror" and "reflective glass" on Google, but no online stores except for commercial use. The piece has to be about 17x22".



Thanks

#2
Posted 07/31/2005 05:56 AM   
Still looking, but I thought about this a little further, and I've been wondering about something - if we reflected a CRT display onto one of these mirrors, then the image would basically appear to be floating in the air, since you're looking at a half-silvered mirror (part see-through, part reflective).

So, if you looked at the reflected image, you may not see an image that takes time for the image to draw on the monitor, which creates the ghosting.

The mirror only allows half of the light particles to be displayed, so that's why I think it would work. Basically, with shutter glasses and this mirror, one could see ghost-free images that appear to be floating in air.

Even if this doesn't work, I've gotta get one of these half-silvered mirrors so I can experiment. Sorry for so many posts. Maybe in the future, I'll just revise the original one.
Still looking, but I thought about this a little further, and I've been wondering about something - if we reflected a CRT display onto one of these mirrors, then the image would basically appear to be floating in the air, since you're looking at a half-silvered mirror (part see-through, part reflective).



So, if you looked at the reflected image, you may not see an image that takes time for the image to draw on the monitor, which creates the ghosting.



The mirror only allows half of the light particles to be displayed, so that's why I think it would work. Basically, with shutter glasses and this mirror, one could see ghost-free images that appear to be floating in air.



Even if this doesn't work, I've gotta get one of these half-silvered mirrors so I can experiment. Sorry for so many posts. Maybe in the future, I'll just revise the original one.

#3
Posted 07/31/2005 08:00 AM   
I know that one side of a laser is "half silvered"... you would have to talk to a specialist though, and because its a specialist, they will probably ask $$$$ for any product.

What about mirror paint on glass? You could experiment with different concentrations.

I am still not sure what you are trying to do... perhaps a diagram would help :P

If you are reflecting an image, it will be upside-down or back to front, depending on the positioning of the mirror, but you probably know that etc :P

-- RAGEdemon
I know that one side of a laser is "half silvered"... you would have to talk to a specialist though, and because its a specialist, they will probably ask $$$$ for any product.



What about mirror paint on glass? You could experiment with different concentrations.



I am still not sure what you are trying to do... perhaps a diagram would help :P



If you are reflecting an image, it will be upside-down or back to front, depending on the positioning of the mirror, but you probably know that etc :P



-- RAGEdemon

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#4
Posted 07/31/2005 01:02 PM   
Yeah, the whole mirroring thing would be a lot easier if NVKeystone could be enabled with the stereo driver, but that's been brought up before too.

I was tinkering this morning and reflected a page-flipped image onto a mirror and looked at it through my shutter glasses just to see what it'd be like. Well, the image won't "pop out" off of the reflection, but there is a true sense of depth, nonetheless. And the reflection actually cuts down the ghosting quite a bit. NOT COMPLETELY, but enough for me to want to pursue this further.

I'm going to look into your painted glass suggestion, and also look more into see-through mirrors. The resources I found seem to indicate see-through mirrors are half-silvered, just used for different purposes than lazers. I can get them for the size I need at about $70.

I work weekends, about 14 hours per shift, so I won't get an opportunity to draw anything up until Tuesday. But thanks so much for responding!
Yeah, the whole mirroring thing would be a lot easier if NVKeystone could be enabled with the stereo driver, but that's been brought up before too.



I was tinkering this morning and reflected a page-flipped image onto a mirror and looked at it through my shutter glasses just to see what it'd be like. Well, the image won't "pop out" off of the reflection, but there is a true sense of depth, nonetheless. And the reflection actually cuts down the ghosting quite a bit. NOT COMPLETELY, but enough for me to want to pursue this further.



I'm going to look into your painted glass suggestion, and also look more into see-through mirrors. The resources I found seem to indicate see-through mirrors are half-silvered, just used for different purposes than lazers. I can get them for the size I need at about $70.



I work weekends, about 14 hours per shift, so I won't get an opportunity to draw anything up until Tuesday. But thanks so much for responding!

#5
Posted 08/01/2005 12:12 AM   
You can get half silvered/see through rolls of sheet that are designed for car windscreen tinting in auto shops, which are very cheap... maybe $10 per roll. Yu can use these in conjunction with panes of glass from a DIY store. The quality might not be as good as painted glass, but it ill be ideal for experimentation.

Best of luck mate.

-- RAGEdemon
You can get half silvered/see through rolls of sheet that are designed for car windscreen tinting in auto shops, which are very cheap... maybe $10 per roll. Yu can use these in conjunction with panes of glass from a DIY store. The quality might not be as good as painted glass, but it ill be ideal for experimentation.



Best of luck mate.



-- RAGEdemon

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#6
Posted 08/01/2005 10:24 AM   
i would reccomend you to use setup with glasses with polarizers; your idea can be hard to make, how you can force 2 monitors to work with shutter glasses? you need monitors to be perfectly synchronized, it can be very hard to do...
Second thing, imagine that shutter is dark for left eye, but right eye can see TWO imeges from TWO monitors, believe me you will see double image and small stereo effect
third thing, don not complicate idea, use polarizers like my (or not my ;-)) setup with vertical or above described setup with horizontal mirror, use 2 LCDs, polarized glasses and sheet of cellophane... it shoud be very easy.
i would reccomend you to use setup with glasses with polarizers; your idea can be hard to make, how you can force 2 monitors to work with shutter glasses? you need monitors to be perfectly synchronized, it can be very hard to do...

Second thing, imagine that shutter is dark for left eye, but right eye can see TWO imeges from TWO monitors, believe me you will see double image and small stereo effect

third thing, don not complicate idea, use polarizers like my (or not my ;-)) setup with vertical or above described setup with horizontal mirror, use 2 LCDs, polarized glasses and sheet of cellophane... it shoud be very easy.

#7
Posted 08/03/2005 05:53 PM   
I don't think I described very well in the original post what I was going to do...I sort of went in a few directions, so I'll detail some now and hopefully have something drawn up later...

Basically, the setup I'm going to eventually try will have two lcd monitors, one facing the viewer, one at a 120 degree angle (flipped image, of course) below the other in an above/below setup. A piece of half-silvered mirror will reflect the bottom image onto the mirror, which will bisect the two monitors so that they appear overlayed.

Since lcd displays are polarized, I will use polarized glasses to see the 3d effect, which will minimize any ghosting.

The other idea I was starting to ramble on about was using a half-silvered mirror to reflect just a bottom CRT display, which would give a semi-transparent image like some HUDs do. I would use the shutter glasses to view the reflected image - when I tested a reflection of the CRT monitor on a mirror before, I could still see the 3d effect through the shutters, but there was a lot less ghosting.

On the second idea, there's really no reason to use a half-sivered mirror. I just like the space-age look of semi-transparent images - they appear more like holographs. I could potentially just use a normal mirror if I have to.

Thanks!
I don't think I described very well in the original post what I was going to do...I sort of went in a few directions, so I'll detail some now and hopefully have something drawn up later...



Basically, the setup I'm going to eventually try will have two lcd monitors, one facing the viewer, one at a 120 degree angle (flipped image, of course) below the other in an above/below setup. A piece of half-silvered mirror will reflect the bottom image onto the mirror, which will bisect the two monitors so that they appear overlayed.



Since lcd displays are polarized, I will use polarized glasses to see the 3d effect, which will minimize any ghosting.



The other idea I was starting to ramble on about was using a half-silvered mirror to reflect just a bottom CRT display, which would give a semi-transparent image like some HUDs do. I would use the shutter glasses to view the reflected image - when I tested a reflection of the CRT monitor on a mirror before, I could still see the 3d effect through the shutters, but there was a lot less ghosting.



On the second idea, there's really no reason to use a half-sivered mirror. I just like the space-age look of semi-transparent images - they appear more like holographs. I could potentially just use a normal mirror if I have to.



Thanks!

#8
Posted 08/04/2005 02:06 AM   
ok, its clear now; your first idea is quite easy to do and already tried out /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
As for LCD - in that case you need vertically flipped screen where up is down and down is up /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' /> so you need this option in monitor. It cant be just rotation option but mirroring. Im working on a electronic device that will do this eaisly.
You'll surely have to resolve issue with polarizated LCD light; try then cellophane, it almost cancel this effect on LCD, just mount it in proper direction. I think, its most inportant here - to mount properly cellphane, becouse of rest light.
ok, its clear now; your first idea is quite easy to do and already tried out /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

As for LCD - in that case you need vertically flipped screen where up is down and down is up /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' /> so you need this option in monitor. It cant be just rotation option but mirroring. Im working on a electronic device that will do this eaisly.

You'll surely have to resolve issue with polarizated LCD light; try then cellophane, it almost cancel this effect on LCD, just mount it in proper direction. I think, its most inportant here - to mount properly cellphane, becouse of rest light.

#9
Posted 08/04/2005 06:41 AM   
found that LG monitors - L1980 and L1981 have nice function - vertical MIRRORING: up-down, so it perfectly fits here /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

they say that mirroring is made by software/drivers, maybe if someone figure out how drivers works there will be possibility to use for every 19inch LCD monitor???
found that LG monitors - L1980 and L1981 have nice function - vertical MIRRORING: up-down, so it perfectly fits here /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />



they say that mirroring is made by software/drivers, maybe if someone figure out how drivers works there will be possibility to use for every 19inch LCD monitor???

#10
Posted 08/04/2005 09:57 AM   
Your disovery of the LG monitors is fantastic! That's probably the best route to go, once I can get enough money saved up. That way I don't have to rely on driver development, which may never happen.
Your disovery of the LG monitors is fantastic! That's probably the best route to go, once I can get enough money saved up. That way I don't have to rely on driver development, which may never happen.

#11
Posted 08/05/2005 09:58 AM   
May I suggest something?

If a ghostless setup is what you are after then I think either the z800 visor or a stereo-working projecotr will be a better and possibly, a more practical solution?

It would certainly be cheaper than 2 decent sized LCD screens, and would have better picture quality.

There are numerous threads about both concepts on the stereovision.net forums, if you care to find out more.

-- RAGEdemon
May I suggest something?



If a ghostless setup is what you are after then I think either the z800 visor or a stereo-working projecotr will be a better and possibly, a more practical solution?



It would certainly be cheaper than 2 decent sized LCD screens, and would have better picture quality.



There are numerous threads about both concepts on the stereovision.net forums, if you care to find out more.



-- RAGEdemon

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#12
Posted 08/06/2005 09:40 AM   
more practical, yes, more comfortable - too, but what if one need clear, crispy and hires picture?
as for prices, here in poland, new 19inch LCD cost approx 300-350$, and even if someone want to buy 2LCDs its still 2/3 of price of HMD/projector, but typically people have one LCD, so another for 350$ its 3times cheaper, and in case of 17inch ones, much cheaper. Of course, ergonomics is quite better in case of HMD, sometimes i want to throw out all bulky equipment from desk and buy small good looking Z800 ;-)

in case of z800, can anyone make good digital picture of its small screens working???? a macro type photo without flash will give us good overview about picture quality, anyone can do it??????????
more practical, yes, more comfortable - too, but what if one need clear, crispy and hires picture?

as for prices, here in poland, new 19inch LCD cost approx 300-350$, and even if someone want to buy 2LCDs its still 2/3 of price of HMD/projector, but typically people have one LCD, so another for 350$ its 3times cheaper, and in case of 17inch ones, much cheaper. Of course, ergonomics is quite better in case of HMD, sometimes i want to throw out all bulky equipment from desk and buy small good looking Z800 ;-)



in case of z800, can anyone make good digital picture of its small screens working???? a macro type photo without flash will give us good overview about picture quality, anyone can do it??????????

#13
Posted 08/06/2005 10:03 AM   
I agree with tomruman. Plus, at this stage I'm more interested in new, cheaper ways to do 3d. Eventually, I'd definitely like to have a Z800. But I'd also like two people to see the game/movie, and I don't have a large enough wall in my living room to do a projector justice. With the two monitor approach, two people can wear cheap, lightweight polarized glasses, and I personally love to show 3d stuff to my friends.

I did a search aroung Google, but I couldn't find any pics of the Z800 OLEDs either. They would definitely be something to see. When and if I ever get around to the two lcd monitor mode, I'd like to take jps stereo pictures of it. I feel like such a geek... B)
I agree with tomruman. Plus, at this stage I'm more interested in new, cheaper ways to do 3d. Eventually, I'd definitely like to have a Z800. But I'd also like two people to see the game/movie, and I don't have a large enough wall in my living room to do a projector justice. With the two monitor approach, two people can wear cheap, lightweight polarized glasses, and I personally love to show 3d stuff to my friends.



I did a search aroung Google, but I couldn't find any pics of the Z800 OLEDs either. They would definitely be something to see. When and if I ever get around to the two lcd monitor mode, I'd like to take jps stereo pictures of it. I feel like such a geek... B)

#14
Posted 08/07/2005 12:34 AM   
[quote name='it_ninja' date='Aug 7 2005, 02:34 AM']I agree with tomruman.  Plus, at this stage I'm more interested in new, cheaper ways to do 3d.  Eventually, I'd definitely like to have a Z800.  But I'd also like two people to see the game/movie, and I don't have a large enough wall in my living room to do a projector justice.  With the two monitor approach, two people can wear cheap, lightweight polarized glasses, and I personally love to show 3d stuff to my friends.

I did a search aroung Google, but I couldn't find any pics of the Z800 OLEDs either.  They would definitely be something to see.  When and if I ever get around to the two lcd monitor mode, I'd like to take jps stereo pictures of it.  I feel like such a geek...  B)
[right][post="45302"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

YES!!! AT LAST!!!!! THERE ARE 2 NEW OPTIONS IN NEW STEREO DRIVERS V77.77 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIRRORED STEREO UP-DOWN AND LEFT-RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================== thank you NVIDIA!!!!!!!!===============================
[quote name='it_ninja' date='Aug 7 2005, 02:34 AM']I agree with tomruman.  Plus, at this stage I'm more interested in new, cheaper ways to do 3d.  Eventually, I'd definitely like to have a Z800.  But I'd also like two people to see the game/movie, and I don't have a large enough wall in my living room to do a projector justice.  With the two monitor approach, two people can wear cheap, lightweight polarized glasses, and I personally love to show 3d stuff to my friends.



I did a search aroung Google, but I couldn't find any pics of the Z800 OLEDs either.  They would definitely be something to see.  When and if I ever get around to the two lcd monitor mode, I'd like to take jps stereo pictures of it.  I feel like such a geek...  B)

[post="45302"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




YES!!! AT LAST!!!!! THERE ARE 2 NEW OPTIONS IN NEW STEREO DRIVERS V77.77 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIRRORED STEREO UP-DOWN AND LEFT-RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=========================================== thank you NVIDIA!!!!!!!!===============================

#15
Posted 08/12/2005 08:08 AM   
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