1080P 3d even theoretically possible on ps4/xbo? hdmi
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Sorry for posting a console related question on a geforce forum, but there's just very few places on the interweb where people care much about 3d, period (let alone on console), so I thought I'd ask here. I also happen to be a 3d pc gaming enthusiast, and a 3d gaming enthusiast in general, so it's not like I'm trying to infiltrate the enemy camp or something :-)
But I was thinking, since we're told hdmi can't handle a full 1080p 3d signal, and both consoles use hdmi, wouldn't both theoretically be stuck at 720P? I say "theoretically" because there's little to no talk of 3d next console cycle, but I really want to know if it's possible. For reasons I won't get into, I've been stuck at 720p in 3d on my pc setup for a while and was wondering if next gen consoles could improve on that, even in theory.
Sorry for posting a console related question on a geforce forum, but there's just very few places on the interweb where people care much about 3d, period (let alone on console), so I thought I'd ask here. I also happen to be a 3d pc gaming enthusiast, and a 3d gaming enthusiast in general, so it's not like I'm trying to infiltrate the enemy camp or something :-)
But I was thinking, since we're told hdmi can't handle a full 1080p 3d signal, and both consoles use hdmi, wouldn't both theoretically be stuck at 720P? I say "theoretically" because there's little to no talk of 3d next console cycle, but I really want to know if it's possible. For reasons I won't get into, I've been stuck at 720p in 3d on my pc setup for a while and was wondering if next gen consoles could improve on that, even in theory.
Not unless they're using HDMI 2.0, which is unlikely. They also wouldn't have the horsepower to render most games stereoscopically at 1080p.
It's possible that a later hardware revision may upgrade to 2.0, but even then the lack of power will remain.
I think there's a fair chance the PS4 can get HDMI 2.0. It's been formalized, so it's just a question of if they can get the chips in time for November. I haven't heard anything though, and it's possible a final decision hasn't even been made yet.
In fact 1080p 60fps 3D in HDMI 2.0 hasn't been confirmed yet. The bandwidth is certainly there though. Just gotta keep waiting at this point. Living in Japan, I'm going to have to wait until Feb 22 for the PS4 anyway! And until [i]March[/i] for the next Hobbit film!
I think there's a fair chance the PS4 can get HDMI 2.0. It's been formalized, so it's just a question of if they can get the chips in time for November. I haven't heard anything though, and it's possible a final decision hasn't even been made yet.
In fact 1080p 60fps 3D in HDMI 2.0 hasn't been confirmed yet. The bandwidth is certainly there though. Just gotta keep waiting at this point. Living in Japan, I'm going to have to wait until Feb 22 for the PS4 anyway! And until March for the next Hobbit film!
I agree, with airion. Just cause Sony will want to give impression of 4K format support [Might do upscaling but that doesnt matter]. They want to sell those overpriced tvs = /
But the tvs themselves will need a chipset supporting hdmi 2.0 and a higher format for 3D.
I agree, with airion. Just cause Sony will want to give impression of 4K format support [Might do upscaling but that doesnt matter]. They want to sell those overpriced tvs = /
But the tvs themselves will need a chipset supporting hdmi 2.0 and a higher format for 3D.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I highly doubt PS4 would be able to push 1080p in 3d anyway, since even at this point most games are not running at 1080p even in 2d. It's one of the issues I see with PS4 VR. VR requires at least 60fps to avoid VR sickness, and consoles gaming is 30fps most frequently, so I see PS4 VR being in trouble in many games.
In any case, welcome to these forums nerdjitsu, any 3d friend is our friend ;)
I highly doubt PS4 would be able to push 1080p in 3d anyway, since even at this point most games are not running at 1080p even in 2d. It's one of the issues I see with PS4 VR. VR requires at least 60fps to avoid VR sickness, and consoles gaming is 30fps most frequently, so I see PS4 VR being in trouble in many games.
In any case, welcome to these forums nerdjitsu, any 3d friend is our friend ;)
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
[quote="birthright"]I highly doubt PS4 would be able to push 1080p in 3d anyway[/quote]
I agree for the most part, my hope is that the PS4 can deliver high quality 720p 3D consistently.
That said, Super Stardust HD already did 720p 60fps 3D on the PS3. So I think there will be room for 1080p 60fps 3D for a few games on PS4.
Welcome here as any 3d gaming fan is our friend as birtright did say and I absolutely think hes right about the PS4, I belive it are to weak for proper 3d as it having a hard time doing 1080P with 60fps 2d so dont have your hope up on that one.
But Sony seems to be on their own VR device thou so we shall see, probably be in 720P then but I dont know. We just have to wait.
Atlest we have the wonderfull Pc and Oculus Rift on the way whitch every developers seems to praise and with Pc you can have all the power you want :)
That said thou I may get an PS4 myself later on for Sonys exclusives or else just stick to my WiiU to complement my Pc as Nintendos own games like Mario/Zelda really are a must for me :)
Welcome here as any 3d gaming fan is our friend as birtright did say and I absolutely think hes right about the PS4, I belive it are to weak for proper 3d as it having a hard time doing 1080P with 60fps 2d so dont have your hope up on that one.
But Sony seems to be on their own VR device thou so we shall see, probably be in 720P then but I dont know. We just have to wait.
Atlest we have the wonderfull Pc and Oculus Rift on the way whitch every developers seems to praise and with Pc you can have all the power you want :)
That said thou I may get an PS4 myself later on for Sonys exclusives or else just stick to my WiiU to complement my Pc as Nintendos own games like Mario/Zelda really are a must for me :)
My 660TI has enough bandwidth with the HDMI chipset they included. So, yes, even if they didn't use HDMI 2.0, I'm sure Sony will at least use an 300mhz 1.4 HDMI chipset. If they want to be able to do 4K@30fps, it's a necessity. And since those are all supported, but optional resolutions, they could do 1080p 3D @60fps. Just don't count on it. You'd have to design a game around having reduced geometry counts strictly for this purpose (unless you didn't care about the framerate.)
My 660TI has enough bandwidth with the HDMI chipset they included. So, yes, even if they didn't use HDMI 2.0, I'm sure Sony will at least use an 300mhz 1.4 HDMI chipset. If they want to be able to do 4K@30fps, it's a necessity. And since those are all supported, but optional resolutions, they could do 1080p 3D @60fps. Just don't count on it. You'd have to design a game around having reduced geometry counts strictly for this purpose (unless you didn't care about the framerate.)
Sony confirmed HDMI 2.0 at the IFA show in Berlin for the PS4, but this was from an employee at the show. Best to wait for an official press release.
Also, PS4 wont be able to handle 1080p stereo anyway. Unless it's for indie games, or not graphical intensive games. I would be happy (relatively) with fluid 720p stereo. Lets hope the Sony VR is up to snuff.
Sony confirmed HDMI 2.0 at the IFA show in Berlin for the PS4, but this was from an employee at the show. Best to wait for an official press release.
Also, PS4 wont be able to handle 1080p stereo anyway. Unless it's for indie games, or not graphical intensive games. I would be happy (relatively) with fluid 720p stereo. Lets hope the Sony VR is up to snuff.
A lot of natively 3d-supported games on console are 2d+depth anyway. That way 1080 should be possible with ps4 hardware and "s-3d". Now, about 2d+depth (fake-3d), that's another question though.
Too many pitfalls about 3d these days. :(
A lot of natively 3d-supported games on console are 2d+depth anyway. That way 1080 should be possible with ps4 hardware and "s-3d". Now, about 2d+depth (fake-3d), that's another question though.
Too many pitfalls about 3d these days. :(
Sony cheats
http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/Stereoscopic_3D/FMX-Final.pdf
A few things from the PDF
Frame packing method of
720p at 59.94Hz
– Output Mode for 3D Game is
1280x1470
• Reduce scene complexity for S3D build
– Lower resolution, less details, disabling effects, etc
• Filled holes can be seen upon inspection
– But it is easy to miss or forget about
• Limit the maximum range of depth to limit the maximum
hole size
Well, we really won't know kind of polys these consoles are pushing until we've actually seen them in action. Keep in mind, for EVERY major iteration of major console over the past 15 years, the consoles have exponentially outperformed similary configured pc counterparts. Maybe some of you guys are too young to remember, but I remember scoffing at original xbox,xbox 360, ps2 etc. specs when they were made known - then being blown away by what they could do. It's odd that everybody seems to have forgotten that, even the entire media... I thought that, even with this experience of previous generations, maybe everyone was confident they'd be so similar to pc counterparts because of the uber-reliance on pc parts this generation, but some declarations from some devs claiming that these consoles are stronger than we are expecting have given me some hope... Then again, I'll have mixed emotions if my $400 or $500 console matches or outperforms the rig that I just dropped many, MANY times more $ on :-)
Oh wow, I didn't know there was a name for that "fake" 3d in games like Ratchet and Clank... "2d+depth", yeah that's apt. I love that series, was so horribly disappointed. It's the same 2d game, but further away, hooray! But games like uncharted and Zen Pinball 2 showed awesome 3d on ps3, so we know it was possible.
Everything I've read about hdmi 2.0 on next gen has claimed it's impossible, I really hope you guys know something I don't... But then again, it may not matter, as I've not heard of 1 next gen console game supporting 3d. It's funny that now that 3d tv's are becoming the de facto television simply due to price dropping (not necessarily interest), that now the console devs have abandoned 3d. 2 or 3 years ago every demo at e3 was shown in 3d, and now that it's feasible for so many people, it's nowhere to be found.
Oculus Rift, save us!
Well, we really won't know kind of polys these consoles are pushing until we've actually seen them in action. Keep in mind, for EVERY major iteration of major console over the past 15 years, the consoles have exponentially outperformed similary configured pc counterparts. Maybe some of you guys are too young to remember, but I remember scoffing at original xbox,xbox 360, ps2 etc. specs when they were made known - then being blown away by what they could do. It's odd that everybody seems to have forgotten that, even the entire media... I thought that, even with this experience of previous generations, maybe everyone was confident they'd be so similar to pc counterparts because of the uber-reliance on pc parts this generation, but some declarations from some devs claiming that these consoles are stronger than we are expecting have given me some hope... Then again, I'll have mixed emotions if my $400 or $500 console matches or outperforms the rig that I just dropped many, MANY times more $ on :-)
Oh wow, I didn't know there was a name for that "fake" 3d in games like Ratchet and Clank... "2d+depth", yeah that's apt. I love that series, was so horribly disappointed. It's the same 2d game, but further away, hooray! But games like uncharted and Zen Pinball 2 showed awesome 3d on ps3, so we know it was possible.
Everything I've read about hdmi 2.0 on next gen has claimed it's impossible, I really hope you guys know something I don't... But then again, it may not matter, as I've not heard of 1 next gen console game supporting 3d. It's funny that now that 3d tv's are becoming the de facto television simply due to price dropping (not necessarily interest), that now the console devs have abandoned 3d. 2 or 3 years ago every demo at e3 was shown in 3d, and now that it's feasible for so many people, it's nowhere to be found.
P.s. Birthright, thanks for the welcome! Yeah, I DESPISE the 30fps console standard with all of my being, it's one of the main things that pushes me to pc. Not just the added power, mind you, but the ability to turn down the settings until I get to that glorious 60fps. 30fps is just a slideshow to me - although the one exception, actually, is that I don't hate 30fps in 3d nearly as much as I do in 2d. I dunno, something about the added immersion makes my brain forgive it and "believe" there are moving, real objects, whereas in 2d it breaks it for me. Unless the game has really, really good motion blur, which maybe 1 in 100 pulls off.
P.s. Birthright, thanks for the welcome! Yeah, I DESPISE the 30fps console standard with all of my being, it's one of the main things that pushes me to pc. Not just the added power, mind you, but the ability to turn down the settings until I get to that glorious 60fps. 30fps is just a slideshow to me - although the one exception, actually, is that I don't hate 30fps in 3d nearly as much as I do in 2d. I dunno, something about the added immersion makes my brain forgive it and "believe" there are moving, real objects, whereas in 2d it breaks it for me. Unless the game has really, really good motion blur, which maybe 1 in 100 pulls off.
From a comment on AVS ([url]http://www.avsforum.com/t/1486983/sony-playstation-4-in-u-s-stores-november-15-for-399/120[/url]):
The president of Sony Electronics said all Sony UHD devices would be firmware upgradable to HDMI 2.0. [i]Presumably[/i] this includes the PS4 (frankly, it would be stupid if they didn't, although companies are allowed to be stupid). So it's still not specifically confirmed, but it looks to me now that the PS4 will more likely than not have HDMI 2.0.
The president of Sony Electronics said all Sony UHD devices would be firmware upgradable to HDMI 2.0. Presumably this includes the PS4 (frankly, it would be stupid if they didn't, although companies are allowed to be stupid). So it's still not specifically confirmed, but it looks to me now that the PS4 will more likely than not have HDMI 2.0.
I have a PS3 and most of the '3D' titles available for it. While Uncharted3 was a visually stunning game in itself IMHO the '3D' was meh and more of the standard 2D+depth the platform was able to provide.
Sony would be stupid not to support UHD on the PS4 - they need content to push the UHD TV's they are coming out with. Will the PS4 be able to render+display a UHD image? Sure why not. However given the GPU+8 core CPU driving it will it be able to do it at 120 or even 60 FPS? Not bloody likely.
Me thinks that with the hardware Sony+Microsoft selected for their next generation consoles the designed in target resolution/frame rate is 1080P/60FPS. UHD will end up being 24/30FPS and S3D likely the same or 720P/60FPS.
I have a PS3 and most of the '3D' titles available for it. While Uncharted3 was a visually stunning game in itself IMHO the '3D' was meh and more of the standard 2D+depth the platform was able to provide.
Sony would be stupid not to support UHD on the PS4 - they need content to push the UHD TV's they are coming out with. Will the PS4 be able to render+display a UHD image? Sure why not. However given the GPU+8 core CPU driving it will it be able to do it at 120 or even 60 FPS? Not bloody likely.
Me thinks that with the hardware Sony+Microsoft selected for their next generation consoles the designed in target resolution/frame rate is 1080P/60FPS. UHD will end up being 24/30FPS and S3D likely the same or 720P/60FPS.
But I was thinking, since we're told hdmi can't handle a full 1080p 3d signal, and both consoles use hdmi, wouldn't both theoretically be stuck at 720P? I say "theoretically" because there's little to no talk of 3d next console cycle, but I really want to know if it's possible. For reasons I won't get into, I've been stuck at 720p in 3d on my pc setup for a while and was wondering if next gen consoles could improve on that, even in theory.
It's possible that a later hardware revision may upgrade to 2.0, but even then the lack of power will remain.
In fact 1080p 60fps 3D in HDMI 2.0 hasn't been confirmed yet. The bandwidth is certainly there though. Just gotta keep waiting at this point. Living in Japan, I'm going to have to wait until Feb 22 for the PS4 anyway! And until March for the next Hobbit film!
But the tvs themselves will need a chipset supporting hdmi 2.0 and a higher format for 3D.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
In any case, welcome to these forums nerdjitsu, any 3d friend is our friend ;)
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
I agree for the most part, my hope is that the PS4 can deliver high quality 720p 3D consistently.
That said, Super Stardust HD already did 720p 60fps 3D on the PS3. So I think there will be room for 1080p 60fps 3D for a few games on PS4.
But Sony seems to be on their own VR device thou so we shall see, probably be in 720P then but I dont know. We just have to wait.
Atlest we have the wonderfull Pc and Oculus Rift on the way whitch every developers seems to praise and with Pc you can have all the power you want :)
That said thou I may get an PS4 myself later on for Sonys exclusives or else just stick to my WiiU to complement my Pc as Nintendos own games like Mario/Zelda really are a must for me :)
Also, PS4 wont be able to handle 1080p stereo anyway. Unless it's for indie games, or not graphical intensive games. I would be happy (relatively) with fluid 720p stereo. Lets hope the Sony VR is up to snuff.
Too many pitfalls about 3d these days. :(
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/Stereoscopic_3D/FMX-Final.pdf
A few things from the PDF
Frame packing method of
720p at 59.94Hz
– Output Mode for 3D Game is
1280x1470
• Reduce scene complexity for S3D build
– Lower resolution, less details, disabling effects, etc
• Filled holes can be seen upon inspection
– But it is easy to miss or forget about
• Limit the maximum range of depth to limit the maximum
hole size
Oh wow, I didn't know there was a name for that "fake" 3d in games like Ratchet and Clank... "2d+depth", yeah that's apt. I love that series, was so horribly disappointed. It's the same 2d game, but further away, hooray! But games like uncharted and Zen Pinball 2 showed awesome 3d on ps3, so we know it was possible.
Everything I've read about hdmi 2.0 on next gen has claimed it's impossible, I really hope you guys know something I don't... But then again, it may not matter, as I've not heard of 1 next gen console game supporting 3d. It's funny that now that 3d tv's are becoming the de facto television simply due to price dropping (not necessarily interest), that now the console devs have abandoned 3d. 2 or 3 years ago every demo at e3 was shown in 3d, and now that it's feasible for so many people, it's nowhere to be found.
Oculus Rift, save us!
The president of Sony Electronics said all Sony UHD devices would be firmware upgradable to HDMI 2.0. Presumably this includes the PS4 (frankly, it would be stupid if they didn't, although companies are allowed to be stupid). So it's still not specifically confirmed, but it looks to me now that the PS4 will more likely than not have HDMI 2.0.
Sony would be stupid not to support UHD on the PS4 - they need content to push the UHD TV's they are coming out with. Will the PS4 be able to render+display a UHD image? Sure why not. However given the GPU+8 core CPU driving it will it be able to do it at 120 or even 60 FPS? Not bloody likely.
Me thinks that with the hardware Sony+Microsoft selected for their next generation consoles the designed in target resolution/frame rate is 1080P/60FPS. UHD will end up being 24/30FPS and S3D likely the same or 720P/60FPS.
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"