I believe the way the 3D objects appear to go back into the screen when you move away form the display (to a point) is from the size depth cue telling your brain the object is further back since the size of the object in your field of vision obviously gets smaller the further you are from it. Which would mean the size cue is pretty damn powerful. I was surprised how much depth the vg278H had when i first tried it going from my 46" 3DTV with its bigger FOV and thus large object size. I normally max out depth with my 46" 3DTV, sitting very close it didn't help, when switching over to the 27", i had to turn down depth. However, people have said before they thought 3D Vision automatically adjusted the depth values based on detected monitor size, so that experience in itself may not be proof of anything.
This also mean Nvidia could potentially add further depth by shrinking objects proportionally based on distance from your view. Maybe i should create a new thread for this, im still not sure im even right. Oculus and other VR kits, which have been reviewed here could also use this as a way to create more perceived depth.
I believe the way the 3D objects appear to go back into the screen when you move away form the display (to a point) is from the size depth cue telling your brain the object is further back since the size of the object in your field of vision obviously gets smaller the further you are from it. Which would mean the size cue is pretty damn powerful. I was surprised how much depth the vg278H had when i first tried it going from my 46" 3DTV with its bigger FOV and thus large object size. I normally max out depth with my 46" 3DTV, sitting very close it didn't help, when switching over to the 27", i had to turn down depth. However, people have said before they thought 3D Vision automatically adjusted the depth values based on detected monitor size, so that experience in itself may not be proof of anything.
This also mean Nvidia could potentially add further depth by shrinking objects proportionally based on distance from your view. Maybe i should create a new thread for this, im still not sure im even right. Oculus and other VR kits, which have been reviewed here could also use this as a way to create more perceived depth.
[quote="Libertine"]shrinking objects proportionally based on distance from your view[/quote] Doesn't that happen already? When you move away from something in a game, it gets smaller?
One really interesting fact of how the brain perceives the size of something is that it uses both the physical size of the image on the retina, and the direction the eyes are pointing. This is why when you play in 3D things behind the screen look larger than they do in 2D, and why they start looking like small toys if you pop them out (by increasing convergence). Their size on the screen (and therefore on the retina) hasn't changed, the only thing that changed is the direction your eyes are looking.
This makes sense if you think about it - as something moves away from you you don't perceive it as getting smaller, even though on the retina it is getting smaller. Your brain is automatically compensating for the fact the image of the object is smaller by how far away it is. This only works up to a point though - at a certain distance the relative depth of objects becomes hard to determine, so at that point objects further away may be perceived to be smaller (however at that point the brain starts looking for anything nearby it knows the size of. When the moon is near the horizon your brain is comparing it's size with the trees and mountains so it looks large, when it's up in the sky your brain has no clue how big it is and it appears smaller. Of course in either case the brain is seriously underestimating it's size).
One really interesting fact of how the brain perceives the size of something is that it uses both the physical size of the image on the retina, and the direction the eyes are pointing. This is why when you play in 3D things behind the screen look larger than they do in 2D, and why they start looking like small toys if you pop them out (by increasing convergence). Their size on the screen (and therefore on the retina) hasn't changed, the only thing that changed is the direction your eyes are looking.
This makes sense if you think about it - as something moves away from you you don't perceive it as getting smaller, even though on the retina it is getting smaller. Your brain is automatically compensating for the fact the image of the object is smaller by how far away it is. This only works up to a point though - at a certain distance the relative depth of objects becomes hard to determine, so at that point objects further away may be perceived to be smaller (however at that point the brain starts looking for anything nearby it knows the size of. When the moon is near the horizon your brain is comparing it's size with the trees and mountains so it looks large, when it's up in the sky your brain has no clue how big it is and it appears smaller. Of course in either case the brain is seriously underestimating it's size).
2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit
You talk about orthostereoscopy, it is the saint graal of 3D. Here the definition: Producing a three-dimensional visual image that is a full-sized true-to-scale reproduction of the original object in all three dimensions and that appears at the same distance from the eye as the object.
BlackShark is kind of a specialist:
[url]https://www.tridef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25719#p25719[/url]
In general for adult, max depth is 7cm separation (distance between your two eyes) more will make your eyes diverge. The max depth is less with child, don't push the separation more than their eyes distance !
The pop out (out of the screen) is proportional, faraway from the screen = more 3D (by stretching). Pop out can exceed 50 cm separation on TV.
For a video, bigger the screen is, bigger the depth will be, cause it shows more separation. Depth can NOT be manage in video, only parallax/convergence. In game you can modify depth (separation) and parallax/convergence.
You're eyes can diverge a little bit, so faraway you are from the screen, more séparation you can get. For exemple in theaters you can see more than 7cm separation on screen.
Movie max depth is define by the bigger 3D screen on earth (Sydney LG IMAX 3D theater), in movies they can NOT push the separation more than it will display there without "diverging" the watchers. This is why 3D movie have weak 3D/depth (flat), the separation is too low on small screen. On some documentary, that are not display there, they can push the separation. You can see that on IMAX 3D DVD or 3D BluRay documentary !
Some easy explaination of 3D physics:
https://www.tridef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6127
Blur the far and the near plane of a picture, then your brain will tells you it is small, even if it's not:
[img]http://cdn.instructables.com/F80/2D03/HO7XGFP5/F802D03HO7XGFP5.LARGE.jpg[/img]
[img]http://c300221.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/tiny-people-in-a-miniature-world-tiltshift-effect-1358465358_org.jpg[/img]
[img]http://cdn.instructables.com/F80/LF94/GU1UZ13M/F80LF94GU1UZ13M.LARGE.jpg[/img]
https://www.google.fr/search?q=Miniature+Effect&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jM4FVdbFC8_fauHogPAF&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=944&bih=927
I love it !
.
You talk about orthostereoscopy, it is the saint graal of 3D. Here the definition: Producing a three-dimensional visual image that is a full-sized true-to-scale reproduction of the original object in all three dimensions and that appears at the same distance from the eye as the object.
In general for adult, max depth is 7cm separation (distance between your two eyes) more will make your eyes diverge. The max depth is less with child, don't push the separation more than their eyes distance !
The pop out (out of the screen) is proportional, faraway from the screen = more 3D (by stretching). Pop out can exceed 50 cm separation on TV.
For a video, bigger the screen is, bigger the depth will be, cause it shows more separation. Depth can NOT be manage in video, only parallax/convergence. In game you can modify depth (separation) and parallax/convergence.
You're eyes can diverge a little bit, so faraway you are from the screen, more séparation you can get. For exemple in theaters you can see more than 7cm separation on screen.
Movie max depth is define by the bigger 3D screen on earth (Sydney LG IMAX 3D theater), in movies they can NOT push the separation more than it will display there without "diverging" the watchers. This is why 3D movie have weak 3D/depth (flat), the separation is too low on small screen. On some documentary, that are not display there, they can push the separation. You can see that on IMAX 3D DVD or 3D BluRay documentary !
Reported screen size isn't always correct and often isn't what you want anyway.
If you use Monitor Asset Manager to open an inf file (EDID), you'll often see that the screen size is not listed. I assume NVidia defaults to a certain size for a monitor, tv or projector, if this information is not present.
So even if the size is shown, the depth may not be desirable. When using a TV, it is generally assumed that you will be seated 8-10 feet away. So the depth is pretuned to this postion and once you move closer it may not be possible to get the full adjustment that you desire.
This is why the depth hack is so great. You can use it to adjust and aquire the desired depth in relation to your distance from the screen if your not happy with the current settings. The Depth Hack also allows you to go beyond 100% depth depending on the display and seating position.
Reported screen size isn't always correct and often isn't what you want anyway.
If you use Monitor Asset Manager to open an inf file (EDID), you'll often see that the screen size is not listed. I assume NVidia defaults to a certain size for a monitor, tv or projector, if this information is not present.
So even if the size is shown, the depth may not be desirable. When using a TV, it is generally assumed that you will be seated 8-10 feet away. So the depth is pretuned to this postion and once you move closer it may not be possible to get the full adjustment that you desire.
This is why the depth hack is so great. You can use it to adjust and aquire the desired depth in relation to your distance from the screen if your not happy with the current settings. The Depth Hack also allows you to go beyond 100% depth depending on the display and seating position.
Nvidia 3DVision at 100% is 7cm on screen (on my 55" TV and 24" monitor), impossible to push more without hack. I've tried some 3D videos from monitor on TV, it is impossible to watch, except going 20 meters from it...
This is why I generally make two shots when I share 3D (Video or picture), one up to 26" and one up to 60".
.
Nvidia 3DVision at 100% is 7cm on screen (on my 55" TV and 24" monitor), impossible to push more without hack. I've tried some 3D videos from monitor on TV, it is impossible to watch, except going 20 meters from it...
This is why I generally make two shots when I share 3D (Video or picture), one up to 26" and one up to 60".
Im not sure if you guys are understanding. There is a vastly greater difference between the the proportional position of near and far objects between the 27" and 46". On the 27", things seem to go much deeper into the screen. Im trying to find out how much the size of the small screen (or screen FOV) effects the 3rd dimensional placement of objects in your brain, if at all.
[quote="Dugom"]Nvidia 3DVision at 100% is 7cm on screen (on my 55" TV and 24" monitor), impossible to push more without hack. I've tried some 3D videos from monitor on TV, it is impossible to watch, except going 20 meters from it...[/quote]
Yeah, that jogged my memory, i do remember that the separation for the 27" was the same amount on the 46" for the same depth setting.
Im not sure if you guys are understanding. There is a vastly greater difference between the the proportional position of near and far objects between the 27" and 46". On the 27", things seem to go much deeper into the screen. Im trying to find out how much the size of the small screen (or screen FOV) effects the 3rd dimensional placement of objects in your brain, if at all.
Dugom said:Nvidia 3DVision at 100% is 7cm on screen (on my 55" TV and 24" monitor), impossible to push more without hack. I've tried some 3D videos from monitor on TV, it is impossible to watch, except going 20 meters from it...
Yeah, that jogged my memory, i do remember that the separation for the 27" was the same amount on the 46" for the same depth setting.
This also mean Nvidia could potentially add further depth by shrinking objects proportionally based on distance from your view. Maybe i should create a new thread for this, im still not sure im even right. Oculus and other VR kits, which have been reviewed here could also use this as a way to create more perceived depth.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
This makes sense if you think about it - as something moves away from you you don't perceive it as getting smaller, even though on the retina it is getting smaller. Your brain is automatically compensating for the fact the image of the object is smaller by how far away it is. This only works up to a point though - at a certain distance the relative depth of objects becomes hard to determine, so at that point objects further away may be perceived to be smaller (however at that point the brain starts looking for anything nearby it knows the size of. When the moon is near the horizon your brain is comparing it's size with the trees and mountains so it looks large, when it's up in the sky your brain has no clue how big it is and it appears smaller. Of course in either case the brain is seriously underestimating it's size).
2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit
Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD
Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword
BlackShark is kind of a specialist:
https://www.tridef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25719#p25719
In general for adult, max depth is 7cm separation (distance between your two eyes) more will make your eyes diverge. The max depth is less with child, don't push the separation more than their eyes distance !
The pop out (out of the screen) is proportional, faraway from the screen = more 3D (by stretching). Pop out can exceed 50 cm separation on TV.
For a video, bigger the screen is, bigger the depth will be, cause it shows more separation. Depth can NOT be manage in video, only parallax/convergence. In game you can modify depth (separation) and parallax/convergence.
You're eyes can diverge a little bit, so faraway you are from the screen, more séparation you can get. For exemple in theaters you can see more than 7cm separation on screen.
Movie max depth is define by the bigger 3D screen on earth (Sydney LG IMAX 3D theater), in movies they can NOT push the separation more than it will display there without "diverging" the watchers. This is why 3D movie have weak 3D/depth (flat), the separation is too low on small screen. On some documentary, that are not display there, they can push the separation. You can see that on IMAX 3D DVD or 3D BluRay documentary !
Some easy explaination of 3D physics:
https://www.tridef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6127
Blur the far and the near plane of a picture, then your brain will tells you it is small, even if it's not:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=Miniature+Effect&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jM4FVdbFC8_fauHogPAF&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=944&bih=927
I love it !
.
i7 4790K @4.8Ghz / 2x 1080 8GB SLI @2000Mhz / 16GB @2400Mhz
Just click:
My 3D videos and crosstalk test pattern
3DVision Fixes:
HelixMod Site
Universal fix for UnrealEngine 4 Games
Universal fix for Unity Games
Universal fix for FrostBite 3 Games
Universal fix for TellTales Games
Compability Mode Unleashed
Please donate if you can:
-----> Donations to 3DVision Fixers
.
If you use Monitor Asset Manager to open an inf file (EDID), you'll often see that the screen size is not listed. I assume NVidia defaults to a certain size for a monitor, tv or projector, if this information is not present.
So even if the size is shown, the depth may not be desirable. When using a TV, it is generally assumed that you will be seated 8-10 feet away. So the depth is pretuned to this postion and once you move closer it may not be possible to get the full adjustment that you desire.
This is why the depth hack is so great. You can use it to adjust and aquire the desired depth in relation to your distance from the screen if your not happy with the current settings. The Depth Hack also allows you to go beyond 100% depth depending on the display and seating position.
This is why I generally make two shots when I share 3D (Video or picture), one up to 26" and one up to 60".
.
i7 4790K @4.8Ghz / 2x 1080 8GB SLI @2000Mhz / 16GB @2400Mhz
Just click:
My 3D videos and crosstalk test pattern
3DVision Fixes:
HelixMod Site
Universal fix for UnrealEngine 4 Games
Universal fix for Unity Games
Universal fix for FrostBite 3 Games
Universal fix for TellTales Games
Compability Mode Unleashed
Please donate if you can:
-----> Donations to 3DVision Fixers
.
Yeah, that jogged my memory, i do remember that the separation for the 27" was the same amount on the 46" for the same depth setting.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530