Extremely annoying ghosting
Hi.

I bought a 3D Vision kit (glasses + Samsung 2233RZ) two days ago. I've experienced a lot of ghosting in the games so far, especially the bright ones like Resident Evil 5.
My configuration is:

- Core i7 920.
- GeForce 275.
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bits.
- CD v1.13 (GeForce GPU driver v191.07, NVIDIA 3D Vision driver v191.07) [I already tried the CD v1.15 (BETA), but its don't solve the problem.]

So has anyone a tip for me? Monitor configuration, etc?

Best regards.
Hi.



I bought a 3D Vision kit (glasses + Samsung 2233RZ) two days ago. I've experienced a lot of ghosting in the games so far, especially the bright ones like Resident Evil 5.

My configuration is:



- Core i7 920.

- GeForce 275.

- Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bits.

- CD v1.13 (GeForce GPU driver v191.07, NVIDIA 3D Vision driver v191.07) [I already tried the CD v1.15 (BETA), but its don't solve the problem.]



So has anyone a tip for me? Monitor configuration, etc?



Best regards.

#1
Posted 11/15/2009 01:15 AM   
I made some tests and realize that the lens (LCD) of one eye don't blocks completely the image that must be shown to the other one. In others words the lens don't turns "dark enough".

Now what I try to figure out is:
- If all nVidia 3D Vision glasses have this issue or if I was unlucky.
- What I can do to minimize these effects (if there is some type of workaround or if I've to send it to RMA)

So, what do you think?
I made some tests and realize that the lens (LCD) of one eye don't blocks completely the image that must be shown to the other one. In others words the lens don't turns "dark enough".



Now what I try to figure out is:

- If all nVidia 3D Vision glasses have this issue or if I was unlucky.

- What I can do to minimize these effects (if there is some type of workaround or if I've to send it to RMA)



So, what do you think?

#2
Posted 11/15/2009 03:28 AM   
Hi Folks,

to reduce ghosting with the hardware and drivers as they are in the moment it's best to to use less depth (the wheel on the emitter) and more/deeper convergence (strg +f6 to increase, str + f5 to decraese; this has to be manually unlocked in the nvidia 3d driver settings, under advanced keyboard shortcuts or something the like).

Depth leads to more separation between objects, that means the left and right eye image are further apart from each other the more depth you use. The higher the depth the more noticable the ghosting will become, as the ghost images grow larger (ie are not hidden within the 3d object).

Obviously reduced depth lessens the 3d experience, but: you can gain excellent additional 3d effects by increasing convergence (that is your focus point, where left and right eye image converge, ie. you see only one image with glasses off, but in 3d mode). By pushing this convergence point into the screen (strg + f6), everything between that point and you will become a pop-out. A high depth setting makes it very difficult to push this point far into the screen because high depth leads to very far stretching objects towards yourself and towards the back of your screen. There is only a certain amount of stretch you will be able to bear (if the distance between the two images in 3d mode, glasses off, will become larger than your eye distance you will feel the pain, that's true for pop-out and in screen depth).

Now with less depth, more objects are able to squeeze themselves between you and the convergence point without causing pain (and forcing you to zoom out, leading to a minaiture world). This allows a good mix of depth and pop-out. And: ghosting will be much less visible as the separation due to low depth isn't very high.

What works for me on 22", Dragon Age Origins, is like 30% percent depth and convergence set so i can see my characters face very close up wthout pain (note: this face is a pop-out then, so quite beyond the convergence point).

Hope that helps - should you have faulty hardware this won't help obviously, but it might help to understand that a) ghosting appears even with correctly working hardware and b) can be reduced by lowering depth and increasing convergence while getting excellent 3d effects.

Good luck!

P.S.: Ah, one more: If I remember correctly Resident Evil 5 is a special case as the developers hardlocked convergence setting on this one. So lowering depth to ghostingwise bearable amounts will be your only option there. The ghosts become less noticable as you get used to it (and it might help to have your monitor warmed up to reduce ghosting too).
Hi Folks,



to reduce ghosting with the hardware and drivers as they are in the moment it's best to to use less depth (the wheel on the emitter) and more/deeper convergence (strg +f6 to increase, str + f5 to decraese; this has to be manually unlocked in the nvidia 3d driver settings, under advanced keyboard shortcuts or something the like).



Depth leads to more separation between objects, that means the left and right eye image are further apart from each other the more depth you use. The higher the depth the more noticable the ghosting will become, as the ghost images grow larger (ie are not hidden within the 3d object).



Obviously reduced depth lessens the 3d experience, but: you can gain excellent additional 3d effects by increasing convergence (that is your focus point, where left and right eye image converge, ie. you see only one image with glasses off, but in 3d mode). By pushing this convergence point into the screen (strg + f6), everything between that point and you will become a pop-out. A high depth setting makes it very difficult to push this point far into the screen because high depth leads to very far stretching objects towards yourself and towards the back of your screen. There is only a certain amount of stretch you will be able to bear (if the distance between the two images in 3d mode, glasses off, will become larger than your eye distance you will feel the pain, that's true for pop-out and in screen depth).



Now with less depth, more objects are able to squeeze themselves between you and the convergence point without causing pain (and forcing you to zoom out, leading to a minaiture world). This allows a good mix of depth and pop-out. And: ghosting will be much less visible as the separation due to low depth isn't very high.



What works for me on 22", Dragon Age Origins, is like 30% percent depth and convergence set so i can see my characters face very close up wthout pain (note: this face is a pop-out then, so quite beyond the convergence point).



Hope that helps - should you have faulty hardware this won't help obviously, but it might help to understand that a) ghosting appears even with correctly working hardware and b) can be reduced by lowering depth and increasing convergence while getting excellent 3d effects.



Good luck!



P.S.: Ah, one more: If I remember correctly Resident Evil 5 is a special case as the developers hardlocked convergence setting on this one. So lowering depth to ghostingwise bearable amounts will be your only option there. The ghosts become less noticable as you get used to it (and it might help to have your monitor warmed up to reduce ghosting too).

#3
Posted 11/15/2009 11:23 AM   
Thank you so much for the Knowledge Bobarr!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's nice to learn a bit about this wonderfull system, now I got a clue about how to adjust better the settings convergence + depth...
I didn't know that in order to use high convergence you need to lower depth, very interesting everything you said and makes sense.

Now some games I just see it wonderfully in 3D such as Left 4 Dead and Batman, those are the real deal in S3D, I can use 80% depth and really high convergence where the characters really pop out a lot.
But some games such as COD MW2 just don't look that good in S3D, cause there's depth, but if you increase just a little bit convergence it's almost imposible to aim, first person shooters like this game are a lot of hassle to find the sweet spot.
What depth do you recommend for this game in order to use more convergence that will make the gun pop out when you aim close without almost duplicating the crosshair???

Also Left 4 Dead 2 demo, I don't know if you tried that one, has some really serious issues with ghosting, really bad. RE5 never really bothered me the ghosts, I only see in the cut scenes, but those scenes are so wonderfull in S3D that this won't bother me.

I hope Left 4 Dead 2 that will be released in 3 days don't come with the ghosting issue like it's demo version. Or is there any special settings ( convergence + depth) you recommend???

Convergence plays a big role in S3D, it's a much cooler effect than depth, that's why games llike COD MW2, COD WAW and RE5 don't impress me that much. But RE5 has better textures than COD, no doubt about that and it looks way better in S3D. COD is just a console port, it's not that huge differencfe from 2D, the only difference is depth realism, cause the graphics don't change that much like Left 4 Dead for example.
Thank you so much for the Knowledge Bobarr!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's nice to learn a bit about this wonderfull system, now I got a clue about how to adjust better the settings convergence + depth...

I didn't know that in order to use high convergence you need to lower depth, very interesting everything you said and makes sense.



Now some games I just see it wonderfully in 3D such as Left 4 Dead and Batman, those are the real deal in S3D, I can use 80% depth and really high convergence where the characters really pop out a lot.

But some games such as COD MW2 just don't look that good in S3D, cause there's depth, but if you increase just a little bit convergence it's almost imposible to aim, first person shooters like this game are a lot of hassle to find the sweet spot.

What depth do you recommend for this game in order to use more convergence that will make the gun pop out when you aim close without almost duplicating the crosshair???



Also Left 4 Dead 2 demo, I don't know if you tried that one, has some really serious issues with ghosting, really bad. RE5 never really bothered me the ghosts, I only see in the cut scenes, but those scenes are so wonderfull in S3D that this won't bother me.



I hope Left 4 Dead 2 that will be released in 3 days don't come with the ghosting issue like it's demo version. Or is there any special settings ( convergence + depth) you recommend???



Convergence plays a big role in S3D, it's a much cooler effect than depth, that's why games llike COD MW2, COD WAW and RE5 don't impress me that much. But RE5 has better textures than COD, no doubt about that and it looks way better in S3D. COD is just a console port, it's not that huge differencfe from 2D, the only difference is depth realism, cause the graphics don't change that much like Left 4 Dead for example.

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#4
Posted 11/15/2009 12:48 PM   
Hi Bobarr.

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.

I'm a bit more relieved with what you said and I'm going to play with the duet "depth & convergence". Actually I already knew them, but maybe I didn't try to tweak them enough.

[]'s
Hi Bobarr.



Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.



I'm a bit more relieved with what you said and I'm going to play with the duet "depth & convergence". Actually I already knew them, but maybe I didn't try to tweak them enough.



[]'s

#5
Posted 11/15/2009 03:01 PM   
Hi fellows,

thank you for your kind words. Most of this I learned myself from this very forum, no secrets involved, just a few things carried together.

I don't own CoD WaW or MW/MW2, so unfortunately I don't have experience to share with those. I tried the Left for Dead (1) demo and was quite impressed. I haven't spent much time with it though as it is not my favourite genre. But it looks impressive nonetheless.

Now Batman: AA is absolutely fantastic (as game and a 3d vision showcase, flawless actually since last patches and cool with physx fog surrounding you in 3d). I increased converergence beyond default, but not to the point where Batman's ears meet in 3d mode, glasses off. This point that has been advised here in the forums doesn't work that good for me cause in many sequences that's just too close (again, that's just personal preference). I have to tinker with lower depth myself in that one, too. By the time I tested Batman I used around 70% percent depth and convergence as decribed. Ghosting is not very visible in this game due to its dark colours and detailed backgrounds that distract from ghosts.

Other games I liked so far in 3d inspite of their minor quirks are: Warhammer Online (cursor issue, damage numbers don't pop up at depth), Word of Warcraft (ghosting due to simple texture struture), Gothic 3 (flame flicker effects displaced, performance) and - most of all -Dragon Age: Origins (cursor issue, font type is a little small especially in darker 3d mode).

Anyway, I immensely enjoy this technology and hope they have success with it. It is a little irritating though how there are no recent posts of nvidia officials in this forum, especially since this product can't succeed without excellent viral marketing which requires informed and motivated existing users, hmmm.

You never know who reads this... nutch, nutch ;)
Hi fellows,



thank you for your kind words. Most of this I learned myself from this very forum, no secrets involved, just a few things carried together.



I don't own CoD WaW or MW/MW2, so unfortunately I don't have experience to share with those. I tried the Left for Dead (1) demo and was quite impressed. I haven't spent much time with it though as it is not my favourite genre. But it looks impressive nonetheless.



Now Batman: AA is absolutely fantastic (as game and a 3d vision showcase, flawless actually since last patches and cool with physx fog surrounding you in 3d). I increased converergence beyond default, but not to the point where Batman's ears meet in 3d mode, glasses off. This point that has been advised here in the forums doesn't work that good for me cause in many sequences that's just too close (again, that's just personal preference). I have to tinker with lower depth myself in that one, too. By the time I tested Batman I used around 70% percent depth and convergence as decribed. Ghosting is not very visible in this game due to its dark colours and detailed backgrounds that distract from ghosts.



Other games I liked so far in 3d inspite of their minor quirks are: Warhammer Online (cursor issue, damage numbers don't pop up at depth), Word of Warcraft (ghosting due to simple texture struture), Gothic 3 (flame flicker effects displaced, performance) and - most of all -Dragon Age: Origins (cursor issue, font type is a little small especially in darker 3d mode).



Anyway, I immensely enjoy this technology and hope they have success with it. It is a little irritating though how there are no recent posts of nvidia officials in this forum, especially since this product can't succeed without excellent viral marketing which requires informed and motivated existing users, hmmm.



You never know who reads this... nutch, nutch ;)

#6
Posted 11/15/2009 06:39 PM   
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