What 3D vision needs to break trough?
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Its head tracking... Now what the hell am I talking about? 3D picture is nice and cool, but to get things real, the users head position should be tracked. Not precisely, but well enough to give the feeling that your point of view is moving. There are plenty of extremely cheap solutions already available, what could be merged with 3D vision glasses and IR emitter. For example nintendo wii is only using camera and set of IR light sources to track position. Same could be done with the 3D vision glass set.

How to? Basicly we have 2 good options to being with. Either we attach reflective markers on the glasses. IR light coming from the sync emitter would reflect back to the emitter where would be webcam type of camera reading IR light (Basicly its like white dots, or even reflector material used in kids clothing type of reflector, sounds simple but thats how it works). 2nd option if reflective arkers isnt visible enough, we could use 2-3 IR leds on the glasses what would be lit only when the glasses receive sync signal, and by that time the IR-camera takes 1 frame (Obviously at exact same time due the sync we abuse). Sync for the leds would be for power saving purposes mostly for glasses.

What we gain from this? We get real world type of visualization, where you could take a look behind corners and obects just by leaning your head to certain directions. Now doesnt that sound amazing? Play Farcry or such and you would be able to take a look behind things. Okay, this is nice feature what needs gaming industry to join the team and design head positioning option for games. But main advantage would definately be from visualization side. Things immediately pop up to look real when movements of your head alter the viewpoint.

Anyone still following where we are going?

If not, go see this video: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw[/url]

Now you understand :)
Its head tracking... Now what the hell am I talking about? 3D picture is nice and cool, but to get things real, the users head position should be tracked. Not precisely, but well enough to give the feeling that your point of view is moving. There are plenty of extremely cheap solutions already available, what could be merged with 3D vision glasses and IR emitter. For example nintendo wii is only using camera and set of IR light sources to track position. Same could be done with the 3D vision glass set.



How to? Basicly we have 2 good options to being with. Either we attach reflective markers on the glasses. IR light coming from the sync emitter would reflect back to the emitter where would be webcam type of camera reading IR light (Basicly its like white dots, or even reflector material used in kids clothing type of reflector, sounds simple but thats how it works). 2nd option if reflective arkers isnt visible enough, we could use 2-3 IR leds on the glasses what would be lit only when the glasses receive sync signal, and by that time the IR-camera takes 1 frame (Obviously at exact same time due the sync we abuse). Sync for the leds would be for power saving purposes mostly for glasses.



What we gain from this? We get real world type of visualization, where you could take a look behind corners and obects just by leaning your head to certain directions. Now doesnt that sound amazing? Play Farcry or such and you would be able to take a look behind things. Okay, this is nice feature what needs gaming industry to join the team and design head positioning option for games. But main advantage would definately be from visualization side. Things immediately pop up to look real when movements of your head alter the viewpoint.



Anyone still following where we are going?



If not, go see this video: " rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">



Now you understand :)

#1
Posted 06/24/2009 09:41 AM   
That exists from many years ago. Used mainly in simulators (cars, planes) but also in some FPS as ARMA and ARMA2, (old Operation Flashpoint), etc.

It is called TrackIR www.naturalpoint.com. If the game supports it natively you can not only pitch and yaw, you can also have roll and moving in axis x, y, and z in order to see by side of objects, walls, etc

And if the game doesn't support it, it can emulate mouse without disabling mouse at the same time, so in any instant you can chose to move your head or the mouse instead. It has configurable sensibility and even you can define curves of response...

In flight sims together with 3D is astonishing, I can't love it more. You have to try IL2 1946 (old stereo drivers though) or FS.

Nevertheless I find a bit difficult to play FPS games if they don't support it specifically. I mean, replacing the mouse, I find it a bit difficult to aim, but maybe it is matter of configuring curves with death zone at the middle, etc I have not still put time on that though.

Also in FPS games, when you want to turn around you have or to use mouse (I recommend that) or configure TrackIR curves in order that at a certain offset of center view they keep turning without need to move more the head; when you reduce the offset (turn your head back to the near of the center, you recover control). Personally I prefer the combined use of TrackIR and mouse.
That exists from many years ago. Used mainly in simulators (cars, planes) but also in some FPS as ARMA and ARMA2, (old Operation Flashpoint), etc.



It is called TrackIR www.naturalpoint.com. If the game supports it natively you can not only pitch and yaw, you can also have roll and moving in axis x, y, and z in order to see by side of objects, walls, etc



And if the game doesn't support it, it can emulate mouse without disabling mouse at the same time, so in any instant you can chose to move your head or the mouse instead. It has configurable sensibility and even you can define curves of response...



In flight sims together with 3D is astonishing, I can't love it more. You have to try IL2 1946 (old stereo drivers though) or FS.



Nevertheless I find a bit difficult to play FPS games if they don't support it specifically. I mean, replacing the mouse, I find it a bit difficult to aim, but maybe it is matter of configuring curves with death zone at the middle, etc I have not still put time on that though.



Also in FPS games, when you want to turn around you have or to use mouse (I recommend that) or configure TrackIR curves in order that at a certain offset of center view they keep turning without need to move more the head; when you reduce the offset (turn your head back to the near of the center, you recover control). Personally I prefer the combined use of TrackIR and mouse.

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#2
Posted 06/24/2009 09:56 AM   
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='557025' date='Jun 24 2009, 12:56 PM']In flight sims together with 3D is astonishing, I can't love it more. You have to try IL2 1946 (old stereo drivers though) or FS.[/quote]

It is indeed amazing, thats why I wanted to stop by here as I see it as great opportunity for 3D Vision team to expand their product to somethign wicked (Specially while understanding the methods and technology that it could be so damn easily implemented). Im personally working as virtual environment developer and we have full body motion tracking with stereo visualization for moving inside the VR worlds. Its somethign that could be so easily implemented for games in small scale (Well as head tracking is the essential part here). I would love to play FPS where I can control the charachter as usual, run around with keyboard and aim with mouse, but in addition there would be head tracking for peaking behind corners to see enemy etc. And as said, the visualization benefit is simply amazing how it changes with just head tracking when your POW moves like in reality.

Share the fun!

Edit: And I agree with your comment regarding mouse + tracking as combined aiming style. But these are matter of finetuning. We need to get the initiative moving ^^
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='557025' date='Jun 24 2009, 12:56 PM']In flight sims together with 3D is astonishing, I can't love it more. You have to try IL2 1946 (old stereo drivers though) or FS.



It is indeed amazing, thats why I wanted to stop by here as I see it as great opportunity for 3D Vision team to expand their product to somethign wicked (Specially while understanding the methods and technology that it could be so damn easily implemented). Im personally working as virtual environment developer and we have full body motion tracking with stereo visualization for moving inside the VR worlds. Its somethign that could be so easily implemented for games in small scale (Well as head tracking is the essential part here). I would love to play FPS where I can control the charachter as usual, run around with keyboard and aim with mouse, but in addition there would be head tracking for peaking behind corners to see enemy etc. And as said, the visualization benefit is simply amazing how it changes with just head tracking when your POW moves like in reality.



Share the fun!



Edit: And I agree with your comment regarding mouse + tracking as combined aiming style. But these are matter of finetuning. We need to get the initiative moving ^^

#3
Posted 06/24/2009 10:02 AM   
Here is an video of track IR 5: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ[/url]
Here is an video of track IR 5: " rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">

One Shot One Kill [OSOK]

#4
Posted 06/24/2009 11:12 AM   
[quote name='Nicke9494' post='557069' date='Jun 24 2009, 02:12 PM']Here is an video of track IR 5: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ[/url][/quote]

Extremely nice footage mate! Thanks for sharing /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
[quote name='Nicke9494' post='557069' date='Jun 24 2009, 02:12 PM']Here is an video of track IR 5: " rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">



Extremely nice footage mate! Thanks for sharing /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

#5
Posted 06/24/2009 11:41 AM   
TrackIR actually works quite nicely with 3D Vision today. I have their product (they were nice enough to send it) and it does work really well for some games.
TrackIR actually works quite nicely with 3D Vision today. I have their product (they were nice enough to send it) and it does work really well for some games.

#6
Posted 06/24/2009 04:05 PM   
In Battlefield 2 and most First Person Shooters the view direction and the aim is linked, so using headtracking means aiming with headtracking (+ mouse).
A bit difficult (tried it) but possible. In ArmA the viewdirection and the aim is not linked so it's better.
It certainly add to the immersion /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
I think independent view and aiming should be standard in FPS's but I think it is only in ArmA (buggy game on my computer).
Works well in racing games like Live for Speed where there is no aiming.
In Battlefield 2 and most First Person Shooters the view direction and the aim is linked, so using headtracking means aiming with headtracking (+ mouse).

A bit difficult (tried it) but possible. In ArmA the viewdirection and the aim is not linked so it's better.

It certainly add to the immersion /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

I think independent view and aiming should be standard in FPS's but I think it is only in ArmA (buggy game on my computer).

Works well in racing games like Live for Speed where there is no aiming.

#7
Posted 06/24/2009 06:42 PM   
wow nice post.....
[right][url="http://salestrackingsoftware.org"][color="#F6F8F6"][u]sales tracking software[/u][/color][/url][/right]
wow nice post.....

#8
Posted 06/24/2009 07:16 PM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='557185' date='Jun 24 2009, 07:05 PM']TrackIR actually works quite nicely with 3D Vision today. I have their product (they were nice enough to send it) and it does work really well for some games.[/quote]

Thats nice to hear, do you see it as possible future addition to the 3D vision that it could have inbuilt tracking? I mean, the set already has good foundation to work with tracking without much of development. More of straight forward execution for implementing the features. I know you can not give any Yes/No, but in principle would you find the concept suitable? From my point of view those things go so well hand2hand that it would be great opportunity for nvidia. getting you people involved would certainly effect gaming industry to support PoW tracking in all games.

Anyway, I just have to buy the trackir5 and arma2, it looks to work quite well already O.o
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='557185' date='Jun 24 2009, 07:05 PM']TrackIR actually works quite nicely with 3D Vision today. I have their product (they were nice enough to send it) and it does work really well for some games.



Thats nice to hear, do you see it as possible future addition to the 3D vision that it could have inbuilt tracking? I mean, the set already has good foundation to work with tracking without much of development. More of straight forward execution for implementing the features. I know you can not give any Yes/No, but in principle would you find the concept suitable? From my point of view those things go so well hand2hand that it would be great opportunity for nvidia. getting you people involved would certainly effect gaming industry to support PoW tracking in all games.



Anyway, I just have to buy the trackir5 and arma2, it looks to work quite well already O.o

#9
Posted 06/25/2009 09:37 AM   
[quote name='Cromfel' post='557503' date='Jun 25 2009, 10:37 AM']Thats nice to hear, do you see it as possible future addition to the 3D vision that it could have inbuilt tracking? I mean, the set already has good foundation to work with tracking without much of development. More of straight forward execution for implementing the features. I know you can not give any Yes/No, but in principle would you find the concept suitable? From my point of view those things go so well hand2hand that it would be great opportunity for nvidia. getting you people involved would certainly effect gaming industry to support PoW tracking in all games.

Anyway, I just have to buy the trackir5 and arma2, it looks to work quite well already O.o[/quote]


Nice post.

NVIDIA should integrate this product into NVIDIA 3D VISION and made new name for this product like "real 3D GAMER SET" or someting like that.
[quote name='Cromfel' post='557503' date='Jun 25 2009, 10:37 AM']Thats nice to hear, do you see it as possible future addition to the 3D vision that it could have inbuilt tracking? I mean, the set already has good foundation to work with tracking without much of development. More of straight forward execution for implementing the features. I know you can not give any Yes/No, but in principle would you find the concept suitable? From my point of view those things go so well hand2hand that it would be great opportunity for nvidia. getting you people involved would certainly effect gaming industry to support PoW tracking in all games.



Anyway, I just have to buy the trackir5 and arma2, it looks to work quite well already O.o





Nice post.



NVIDIA should integrate this product into NVIDIA 3D VISION and made new name for this product like "real 3D GAMER SET" or someting like that.

#10
Posted 06/25/2009 10:29 AM   
we need a good high res version of the z800 by emagine/3dvisor. headmounted two screens , ZERO ghosting with head tracking. the 600 by 800 resolution of the z800 must be doubled and of course must work w Vista. anyone hear of that in the works? I cant believe its not possible, what 4 or 5 years after the original z800.
we need a good high res version of the z800 by emagine/3dvisor. headmounted two screens , ZERO ghosting with head tracking. the 600 by 800 resolution of the z800 must be doubled and of course must work w Vista. anyone hear of that in the works? I cant believe its not possible, what 4 or 5 years after the original z800.

#11
Posted 06/25/2009 04:40 PM   
[quote name='Edo1946' post='557638' date='Jun 25 2009, 12:40 PM']we need a good high res version of the z800 by emagine/3dvisor. headmounted two screens , ZERO ghosting with head tracking. the 600 by 800 resolution of the z800 must be doubled and of course must work w Vista. anyone hear of that in the works? I cant believe its not possible, what 4 or 5 years after the original z800.[/quote]

I still havbe my z800 sitting in a box. I miss it. too bad i gave my old PC to my Dad.
[quote name='Edo1946' post='557638' date='Jun 25 2009, 12:40 PM']we need a good high res version of the z800 by emagine/3dvisor. headmounted two screens , ZERO ghosting with head tracking. the 600 by 800 resolution of the z800 must be doubled and of course must work w Vista. anyone hear of that in the works? I cant believe its not possible, what 4 or 5 years after the original z800.



I still havbe my z800 sitting in a box. I miss it. too bad i gave my old PC to my Dad.

Intel Core i9-9820x @ 3.30GHZ
32 gig Ram
2 EVGA RTX 2080 ti Gaming
3 X ASUS ROG SWIFT 27 144Hz G-SYNC Gaming 3D Monitor [PG278Q]
1 X ASUS VG278HE
Nvidia 3Dvision
Oculus Rift
HTC VIVE
Windows 10

#12
Posted 06/25/2009 04:47 PM   
i'm surprised to hear that the track ir system works well with the 3d vision because, while i love my 3d vision, i have found that i have to hold my head pretty still while using it. Now i've never tried the track ir, but i imagined that will all the head bobbing and stuff going on it would cause a problem. I've been away from home for a few weeks but i seem to remember that head movements were slightly disorienting.

Anyone else know what i'm talking about?
i'm surprised to hear that the track ir system works well with the 3d vision because, while i love my 3d vision, i have found that i have to hold my head pretty still while using it. Now i've never tried the track ir, but i imagined that will all the head bobbing and stuff going on it would cause a problem. I've been away from home for a few weeks but i seem to remember that head movements were slightly disorienting.



Anyone else know what i'm talking about?

#13
Posted 06/28/2009 07:43 PM   
I use freetrack (same as track ir, but free /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' />, and it works quite well with 3d vision...
I use freetrack (same as track ir, but free /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' />, and it works quite well with 3d vision...

#14
Posted 06/28/2009 09:53 PM   
[quote name='xeones' post='558948' date='Jun 28 2009, 02:43 PM']i'm surprised to hear that the track ir system works well with the 3d vision because, while i love my 3d vision, i have found that i have to hold my head pretty still while using it. Now i've never tried the track ir, but i imagined that will all the head bobbing and stuff going on it would cause a problem. I've been away from home for a few weeks but i seem to remember that head movements were slightly disorienting.

Anyone else know what i'm talking about?[/quote]

I know what you are talking about. Its a bit of a training process to get your mind trained. However once you have done it, works great.
[quote name='xeones' post='558948' date='Jun 28 2009, 02:43 PM']i'm surprised to hear that the track ir system works well with the 3d vision because, while i love my 3d vision, i have found that i have to hold my head pretty still while using it. Now i've never tried the track ir, but i imagined that will all the head bobbing and stuff going on it would cause a problem. I've been away from home for a few weeks but i seem to remember that head movements were slightly disorienting.



Anyone else know what i'm talking about?



I know what you are talking about. Its a bit of a training process to get your mind trained. However once you have done it, works great.

#15
Posted 06/29/2009 04:32 PM   
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