3D Vision vs DLP Link DLP link could swamp Nvidia unless...
Well I just got back from Integrated Systems Europe exhibition in Amsterdam. I believe there were more than 30,000 attendees. As I wandered the hall looking at the plethora of projectors and monitors – I noticed something very interesting: every major projector manufacture was there, and those with DLP projectors were showing 3D content with DLP-Link technology. The glasses were Xpand. I NEVER saw an Nvidia 3D Vision demonstration.

I personally purchased a month ago an Optoma Pro350W 3D projector (EW536 in Europe) – and of course there is no support for it with Nvidia 3D Vision. I asked the Optoma people manning the booth about it, and they said that Nvidia CHARGES the hardware vendors for “certification” and that they had no intent of offering the Pro350W as 3D Vision compatible.

So the question goes back to Nvidia – what the heck are they doing? 3D is in its infancy. Nvidia has a head start with 3D Vision and yet are failing to capitalize on it. The measly handful of “supported” monitors and projectors is going to kill 3D Vision. As soon as RealD / Xpand and Bit Cauldron with AMD start churning out easy solutions to any DPL-Link hardware, 3D Vision will just fall by the wayside.

Why not support ANY monitor or projector at 120hz? Why this proprietary “tie” to a handful of products? I have seen articles criticizing Nvidia for using a proprietary emitter and glasses combination. I say, “who cares.” As long as the primary hardware is supported I don’t care about the underlying emitter/glasses relationship. I just care that I get 3D working, can purchase a bunch of glasses and have rooms of people enjoying the show – on any 3D capable display device.

I have 3D Vision with a ViewSonic VX2268wm and it works great. From a software perspective I think the Nvidia drivers are superior to IZ3D (way better than TriDef), but suffer from hardware support.

Looking at various posts, I see people have “faked” the drivers into utilizing other projectors/monitors that are 120hz – but usually at the cost of wearing the glasses upside down.

So I submit a simple solution to Nvidia: Support ALL monitors / CRTs / Projectors capable of 120hz. Also, with a flip of a switch or a software tick, allow the user to swap eyes. That seems to be another bug with most 3D applications – some reversal happens.
Well I just got back from Integrated Systems Europe exhibition in Amsterdam. I believe there were more than 30,000 attendees. As I wandered the hall looking at the plethora of projectors and monitors – I noticed something very interesting: every major projector manufacture was there, and those with DLP projectors were showing 3D content with DLP-Link technology. The glasses were Xpand. I NEVER saw an Nvidia 3D Vision demonstration.



I personally purchased a month ago an Optoma Pro350W 3D projector (EW536 in Europe) – and of course there is no support for it with Nvidia 3D Vision. I asked the Optoma people manning the booth about it, and they said that Nvidia CHARGES the hardware vendors for “certification” and that they had no intent of offering the Pro350W as 3D Vision compatible.



So the question goes back to Nvidia – what the heck are they doing? 3D is in its infancy. Nvidia has a head start with 3D Vision and yet are failing to capitalize on it. The measly handful of “supported” monitors and projectors is going to kill 3D Vision. As soon as RealD / Xpand and Bit Cauldron with AMD start churning out easy solutions to any DPL-Link hardware, 3D Vision will just fall by the wayside.



Why not support ANY monitor or projector at 120hz? Why this proprietary “tie” to a handful of products? I have seen articles criticizing Nvidia for using a proprietary emitter and glasses combination. I say, “who cares.” As long as the primary hardware is supported I don’t care about the underlying emitter/glasses relationship. I just care that I get 3D working, can purchase a bunch of glasses and have rooms of people enjoying the show – on any 3D capable display device.



I have 3D Vision with a ViewSonic VX2268wm and it works great. From a software perspective I think the Nvidia drivers are superior to IZ3D (way better than TriDef), but suffer from hardware support.



Looking at various posts, I see people have “faked” the drivers into utilizing other projectors/monitors that are 120hz – but usually at the cost of wearing the glasses upside down.



So I submit a simple solution to Nvidia: Support ALL monitors / CRTs / Projectors capable of 120hz. Also, with a flip of a switch or a software tick, allow the user to swap eyes. That seems to be another bug with most 3D applications – some reversal happens.

#1
Posted 02/10/2010 12:35 PM   
Couldn't agree more.
They know it, we know it and it's time they changed their business model or be left behind.
Couldn't agree more.

They know it, we know it and it's time they changed their business model or be left behind.

#2
Posted 02/10/2010 12:54 PM   
I'll buy xpand 102, it relase at end of this months.
3d vision don't work on my projector (optoma ew536) only for "business " of nvidia.
I'll buy xpand 102, it relase at end of this months.

3d vision don't work on my projector (optoma ew536) only for "business " of nvidia.

#3
Posted 02/10/2010 02:01 PM   
[quote name='monsenrm' post='998745' date='Feb 10 2010, 01:35 PM']Support ALL monitors / CRTs / Projectors capable of 120hz. Also, with a flip of a switch or a software tick, allow the user to swap eyes. That seems to be another bug with most 3D applications – some reversal happens.[/quote]
I totally can second that, wait no, I don't! Did you say
"Support [b]ALL[/b] monitors / CRTs / Projectors [i][b]capable of 120hz[/b][/i]"?
That's a stupid limitation - I say
"Support [b]ANY[/b] monitor / CRT / projector [i][b]regardless of the reresh rate[/b][/i]!"
There are many, many solutions out there that could work pretty well beyond 100Hz, if nvidia would just dare to allow to use"generic CRT" mode with any resolution at any refresh rate over VGA, DVI, HDMI. ( this means in fact just to activate the glasses since you can launch apps in S3D allready)

They still can keep their selected "optimized" (read "payed for") profiles if they think it worthful.

If they do not move I am absolutely concordant that 3Dvision will take the route of the Dodo once the competition comes to market (June is scheduled for Sony...)

This has been repeatedely plead for over and over again inseveral threads but judging by the perstistent lack of comment even if asked [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=157204&view=findpost&p=990018"]directly[/url] in a thread with participation of an official representative there doesn't seem the slightest interest to adress this - at the moment at least, that is - let's wait and see how their stance is once they [i]have[/i] to compete and if it will still be not too late to by then.
[quote name='monsenrm' post='998745' date='Feb 10 2010, 01:35 PM']Support ALL monitors / CRTs / Projectors capable of 120hz. Also, with a flip of a switch or a software tick, allow the user to swap eyes. That seems to be another bug with most 3D applications – some reversal happens.

I totally can second that, wait no, I don't! Did you say

"Support ALL monitors / CRTs / Projectors capable of 120hz"?

That's a stupid limitation - I say

"Support ANY monitor / CRT / projector regardless of the reresh rate!"

There are many, many solutions out there that could work pretty well beyond 100Hz, if nvidia would just dare to allow to use"generic CRT" mode with any resolution at any refresh rate over VGA, DVI, HDMI. ( this means in fact just to activate the glasses since you can launch apps in S3D allready)



They still can keep their selected "optimized" (read "payed for") profiles if they think it worthful.



If they do not move I am absolutely concordant that 3Dvision will take the route of the Dodo once the competition comes to market (June is scheduled for Sony...)



This has been repeatedely plead for over and over again inseveral threads but judging by the perstistent lack of comment even if asked directly in a thread with participation of an official representative there doesn't seem the slightest interest to adress this - at the moment at least, that is - let's wait and see how their stance is once they have to compete and if it will still be not too late to by then.

#4
Posted 02/10/2010 03:56 PM   
Although i agree with you, i can still mabye see whay Nvidia do this...... mabye it is a quality assurance thing. So say if someone wanted a 3d packaged from nvidea they know its going to be well tested and up to snuff if they get the branded gear.

There can also be lots of confusion with refresh rates and things especialy on tv's so that would mabye cause the unwilling ness to open up the software due to dealing with complaints that arnt caused by 3d vison.

Would be much better (in my eyes) for nvidia to open up the drivers and allow a bigger range of compatible/certified gear.
Although i agree with you, i can still mabye see whay Nvidia do this...... mabye it is a quality assurance thing. So say if someone wanted a 3d packaged from nvidea they know its going to be well tested and up to snuff if they get the branded gear.



There can also be lots of confusion with refresh rates and things especialy on tv's so that would mabye cause the unwilling ness to open up the software due to dealing with complaints that arnt caused by 3d vison.



Would be much better (in my eyes) for nvidia to open up the drivers and allow a bigger range of compatible/certified gear.

#5
Posted 02/10/2010 04:34 PM   
interesting post. I hope NVIDIA finds a way to support more monitors/TVs and projectors- surely it will only bring them more business. Its going to be really interesting to see how this all ends up buy the end of the summer. I wonder how well the competitions hardware is going to work in 3d gaming. Exiting time for consumers!
interesting post. I hope NVIDIA finds a way to support more monitors/TVs and projectors- surely it will only bring them more business. Its going to be really interesting to see how this all ends up buy the end of the summer. I wonder how well the competitions hardware is going to work in 3d gaming. Exiting time for consumers!

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#6
Posted 02/10/2010 06:20 PM   
[quote name='DanielJoy' post='998896' date='Feb 10 2010, 12:20 PM']interesting post. I hope NVIDIA finds a way to support more monitors/TVs and projectors- surely it will only bring them more business. Its going to be really interesting to see how this all ends up buy the end of the summer. I wonder how well the competitions hardware is going to work in 3d gaming. Exiting time for consumers![/quote]

You can be sure nVidia has a good handle on what competitors are bringing to the table this year. CES I am sure gave them plenty of information on what to expect.

We can always sit back from our point of view and look at companies like nVidia and put their business practices under harsh criticism. The thing is ... they have people (likely a team) who are paid to look at what competition is doing and how they are doing it and formulate business strategies to compete. nVidia has been in the game for a long time aswell (not the 3d game but just the graphics processing market in general) and they have not had the consistent success commerical that they can boast due to pure luck. They have some smart people ...

Granted, all the time companies you believe are smart screw up royally (as I expect with the iPad ... no flash support what? and thats just one issue) but I am crossing my fingers nVidia won't.

The one bad thing though ... sometimes the market strategies used (and I am in no way accusing nVidia of this) while successful for the company end up hindering the advancement of the market itself.
[quote name='DanielJoy' post='998896' date='Feb 10 2010, 12:20 PM']interesting post. I hope NVIDIA finds a way to support more monitors/TVs and projectors- surely it will only bring them more business. Its going to be really interesting to see how this all ends up buy the end of the summer. I wonder how well the competitions hardware is going to work in 3d gaming. Exiting time for consumers!



You can be sure nVidia has a good handle on what competitors are bringing to the table this year. CES I am sure gave them plenty of information on what to expect.



We can always sit back from our point of view and look at companies like nVidia and put their business practices under harsh criticism. The thing is ... they have people (likely a team) who are paid to look at what competition is doing and how they are doing it and formulate business strategies to compete. nVidia has been in the game for a long time aswell (not the 3d game but just the graphics processing market in general) and they have not had the consistent success commerical that they can boast due to pure luck. They have some smart people ...



Granted, all the time companies you believe are smart screw up royally (as I expect with the iPad ... no flash support what? and thats just one issue) but I am crossing my fingers nVidia won't.



The one bad thing though ... sometimes the market strategies used (and I am in no way accusing nVidia of this) while successful for the company end up hindering the advancement of the market itself.

#7
Posted 02/10/2010 06:31 PM   
good post! hope you are correct.



[quote name='MistaP' post='998903' date='Feb 10 2010, 10:31 AM']You can be sure nVidia has a good handle on what competitors are bringing to the table this year. CES I am sure gave them plenty of information on what to expect.

We can always sit back from our point of view and look at companies like nVidia and put their business practices under harsh criticism. The thing is ... they have people (likely a team) who are paid to look at what competition is doing and how they are doing it and formulate business strategies to compete. nVidia has been in the game for a long time aswell (not the 3d game but just the graphics processing market in general) and they have not had the consistent success commerical that they can boast due to pure luck. They have some smart people ...

Granted, all the time companies you believe are smart screw up royally (as I expect with the iPad ... no flash support what? and thats just one issue) but I am crossing my fingers nVidia won't.

The one bad thing though ... sometimes the market strategies used (and I am in no way accusing nVidia of this) while successful for the company end up hindering the advancement of the market itself.[/quote]
good post! hope you are correct.







[quote name='MistaP' post='998903' date='Feb 10 2010, 10:31 AM']You can be sure nVidia has a good handle on what competitors are bringing to the table this year. CES I am sure gave them plenty of information on what to expect.



We can always sit back from our point of view and look at companies like nVidia and put their business practices under harsh criticism. The thing is ... they have people (likely a team) who are paid to look at what competition is doing and how they are doing it and formulate business strategies to compete. nVidia has been in the game for a long time aswell (not the 3d game but just the graphics processing market in general) and they have not had the consistent success commerical that they can boast due to pure luck. They have some smart people ...



Granted, all the time companies you believe are smart screw up royally (as I expect with the iPad ... no flash support what? and thats just one issue) but I am crossing my fingers nVidia won't.



The one bad thing though ... sometimes the market strategies used (and I am in no way accusing nVidia of this) while successful for the company end up hindering the advancement of the market itself.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#8
Posted 02/10/2010 06:49 PM   
any update if the optoma EW536 works with 3d vision ??
any update if the optoma EW536 works with 3d vision ??

#9
Posted 11/05/2010 12:22 PM   
any update if the optoma EW536 works with 3d vision ??
any update if the optoma EW536 works with 3d vision ??

#10
Posted 11/05/2010 12:22 PM   
This is an interesting thread, because basically I use Xpand glasses with my Mitsubishi DLP to play older games (up to 2007) using Nvidia's older 3D stereo setup. I have a Phenom II x2 555 BE in an Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (nforce 590) with two Nvidia 7900 GTX's in SLI to play both Directx AND OpenGL games.

In a lot of ways Nvidia's older solution was far more flexible and was capable of doing a lot more. It not only did OpenGL but could use a lot of different kinds of 3D displays.
This is an interesting thread, because basically I use Xpand glasses with my Mitsubishi DLP to play older games (up to 2007) using Nvidia's older 3D stereo setup. I have a Phenom II x2 555 BE in an Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (nforce 590) with two Nvidia 7900 GTX's in SLI to play both Directx AND OpenGL games.



In a lot of ways Nvidia's older solution was far more flexible and was capable of doing a lot more. It not only did OpenGL but could use a lot of different kinds of 3D displays.

#11
Posted 11/05/2010 06:53 PM   
This is an interesting thread, because basically I use Xpand glasses with my Mitsubishi DLP to play older games (up to 2007) using Nvidia's older 3D stereo setup. I have a Phenom II x2 555 BE in an Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (nforce 590) with two Nvidia 7900 GTX's in SLI to play both Directx AND OpenGL games.

In a lot of ways Nvidia's older solution was far more flexible and was capable of doing a lot more. It not only did OpenGL but could use a lot of different kinds of 3D displays.
This is an interesting thread, because basically I use Xpand glasses with my Mitsubishi DLP to play older games (up to 2007) using Nvidia's older 3D stereo setup. I have a Phenom II x2 555 BE in an Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (nforce 590) with two Nvidia 7900 GTX's in SLI to play both Directx AND OpenGL games.



In a lot of ways Nvidia's older solution was far more flexible and was capable of doing a lot more. It not only did OpenGL but could use a lot of different kinds of 3D displays.

#12
Posted 11/05/2010 06:53 PM   
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