I recently got a screen that wasn't compatible with 3d vision @ 1080p (no CB mode).
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).
I need some user inputs on the 3d quality of the Sony and Samsung. How do both square up. I am sure they both compare differently in respects to options, but I am looking more towards the 3d aspects of the devices.
I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase.
I look forward to hearing your responses. Thanks again!
I recently got a screen that wasn't compatible with 3d vision @ 1080p (no CB mode).
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).
I need some user inputs on the 3d quality of the Sony and Samsung. How do both square up. I am sure they both compare differently in respects to options, but I am looking more towards the 3d aspects of the devices.
I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase.
I look forward to hearing your responses. Thanks again!
I'd go Toshiba wx800u, Sharp LE835 or Phillips 8000 or 9000 series long before i went with any Sony as these are reviewed to have very low crosstalk. I own the NX710 and i'd recommend checking out the reviews on digitalversus, flatpanelsHD, trustedreviews, etc before i decided. Digitalversus actually takes crosstalk comparison photos in each review.
I'd go Toshiba wx800u, Sharp LE835 or Phillips 8000 or 9000 series long before i went with any Sony as these are reviewed to have very low crosstalk. I own the NX710 and i'd recommend checking out the reviews on digitalversus, flatpanelsHD, trustedreviews, etc before i decided. Digitalversus actually takes crosstalk comparison photos in each review.
[quote name='adrianbrac' date='06 December 2011 - 03:59 AM' timestamp='1323169173' post='1338327']
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).[/quote]
If you are "trying to correct your mistake", then you are looking only at samsungs. Sony,Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, LG....none of these will fix the mistake you refer to. The ony way to get native resolution 3D gaming is with certain samsung models.
As to reviews, they are worthless because reviewers never test what we card about most, 3D gaming. Crosstalk on broadcast TV, Blu Ray 3D, youtube 3D vids, etc. have no relevance to crosstalk in 3D games, these reviews are only misleading.
[quote]I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase. [/quote]
I had a Sony Hx800 LED for about two months, the image quality was so bad in 3D games, I couldn't believe it. Scaled low res 720P in the wrong pixel processing mode was appauling. Then I learned that samsung was the only way to get native res 1920x1080 3D gaming, so I ditched my Sony for my current samsung and was astonished to see the difference. If I had to game in 3DTV Play framepacking, I'd go back to 2D gaming.
[quote name='adrianbrac' date='06 December 2011 - 03:59 AM' timestamp='1323169173' post='1338327']
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).
If you are "trying to correct your mistake", then you are looking only at samsungs. Sony,Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, LG....none of these will fix the mistake you refer to. The ony way to get native resolution 3D gaming is with certain samsung models.
As to reviews, they are worthless because reviewers never test what we card about most, 3D gaming. Crosstalk on broadcast TV, Blu Ray 3D, youtube 3D vids, etc. have no relevance to crosstalk in 3D games, these reviews are only misleading.
I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase.
I had a Sony Hx800 LED for about two months, the image quality was so bad in 3D games, I couldn't believe it. Scaled low res 720P in the wrong pixel processing mode was appauling. Then I learned that samsung was the only way to get native res 1920x1080 3D gaming, so I ditched my Sony for my current samsung and was astonished to see the difference. If I had to game in 3DTV Play framepacking, I'd go back to 2D gaming.
@adrianbrac: I think you pretty safe to ignore almost everything this guy posts. Somewhere along the road he came to the conclusion that it is ok to state his opinions and guesses as facts. Crosstalk is caused by the same thing, whether in movies or games, so comments that x has much lower crosstalk than y are perfectly valid. I bought my Sharp LE835 based only on verbal comments about its very low crosstalk and it blew the f'ing doors off my NX711 from 2010, as predicted from the reviews. Certain TVs handle different colors better than others, so it is more of a guide than a science. Only televsioninfo tests individual colors, but they seem to be focused on Sony's.
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
@adrianbrac: I think you pretty safe to ignore almost everything this guy posts. Somewhere along the road he came to the conclusion that it is ok to state his opinions and guesses as facts. Crosstalk is caused by the same thing, whether in movies or games, so comments that x has much lower crosstalk than y are perfectly valid. I bought my Sharp LE835 based only on verbal comments about its very low crosstalk and it blew the f'ing doors off my NX711 from 2010, as predicted from the reviews. Certain TVs handle different colors better than others, so it is more of a guide than a science. Only televsioninfo tests individual colors, but they seem to be focused on Sony's.
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
[quote name='Libertine' date='09 December 2011 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1323458365' post='1340093']
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
[/quote]
The only thing we resolved was your determination to deceive.
Franco reported only that changing these values has an effect on picture quality. Of course Libertine knows this, but feels compelled to rationalize his buying decision blunder.
Samsung is aware that there's a big difference between broadcast Video and PC Graphics, so Samsung provides a special PC processing mode so that the TV can be used as a computer monitor. This is why when switching between these two modes, the screen blanks for 1-2 seconds as it switches modes. Libertine would have us believe that there is no such thing as PC Graphics mode, there is only one mode. If this was true, if the TV was merely changing values in broadcast video mode, there would be no blanking. This has been verified by any number of people in this forum. Of course Libertine has no way of proving anything because he doesn't have a samsung.
PC Graphics mode *IS NOT* the same as broadcast video mode only with different settings, they are seperate and distinct. They use different video processing circuits so one cannot be made to look like the other.
To noobies who are influenced by Libertine's lies and half truths, check out these threads and decide for yourself who is being deceitful. Remember, Libertine has never played 3D games in checkerboard mode, so he is in no position to make a comparison.
[quote name='Libertine' date='09 December 2011 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1323458365' post='1340093']
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
The only thing we resolved was your determination to deceive.
Franco reported only that changing these values has an effect on picture quality. Of course Libertine knows this, but feels compelled to rationalize his buying decision blunder.
Samsung is aware that there's a big difference between broadcast Video and PC Graphics, so Samsung provides a special PC processing mode so that the TV can be used as a computer monitor. This is why when switching between these two modes, the screen blanks for 1-2 seconds as it switches modes. Libertine would have us believe that there is no such thing as PC Graphics mode, there is only one mode. If this was true, if the TV was merely changing values in broadcast video mode, there would be no blanking. This has been verified by any number of people in this forum. Of course Libertine has no way of proving anything because he doesn't have a samsung.
PC Graphics mode *IS NOT* the same as broadcast video mode only with different settings, they are seperate and distinct. They use different video processing circuits so one cannot be made to look like the other.
To noobies who are influenced by Libertine's lies and half truths, check out these threads and decide for yourself who is being deceitful. Remember, Libertine has never played 3D games in checkerboard mode, so he is in no position to make a comparison.
I just accidentally erased a huge reply and im not about to retype it so this will be short.
Roller, that you think i'd try to deceive or that its even possible for anyone to do that, says a hell of a lot about YOU, not me...
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB. Yet then you state that CB = side-by-side. I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed. Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes, like contrast and sharpening, but with your history of inflated claims, i come out right in the beginning thinking its bull. Youve led me on many wild goose chases that took up days of my time when i was new to 3D, only to find out what you said was just plain exaggerated. That is NOT ok! How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?
I just accidentally erased a huge reply and im not about to retype it so this will be short.
Roller, that you think i'd try to deceive or that its even possible for anyone to do that, says a hell of a lot about YOU, not me...
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB. Yet then you state that CB = side-by-side. I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed. Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes, like contrast and sharpening, but with your history of inflated claims, i come out right in the beginning thinking its bull. Youve led me on many wild goose chases that took up days of my time when i was new to 3D, only to find out what you said was just plain exaggerated. That is NOT ok! How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?
[quote name='Libertine' date='10 December 2011 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1323549674' post='1340481']
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB.[/quote]
Me and about 100 other people.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=200925
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819
[quote]Yet then you state that CB = side-by-side.[/quote]
Right, CB = SBS != 720P. What's your point? Both SBS and CB are native res, 720P is scaled low res. So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB. It's because 75% of the 1280x720 image are misaligned on a 1920x1080 grid. My claims don't make it so, physics makes it so. It's called "scaling" look into it.
[quote] I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed.[/quote]
So all the people in the above referenced threads are lying, it's a big conspiracy to make Libertine appear to be an idoit. You are right, everyone else is wrong? [quote]Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes,[/quote]
Right, and did you not say the opposite in your response above?
"@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory....."
So is my "pixel processing mode" a 'theory', something I made up to deceive people, or is it real? Make up your mind Libertine, take a side and stick with it.
[quote]after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...[/quote]
"Normal"???? What does that mean? Were you not implying that after his adjustments it looked just like PC Graphics processing?
C'mon Libertine, don't vascilate, did Franco say that there's no such thing as PC Graphics mode or not?
Let's be clear here....all Franco said was that he was able to improve Video mode to some extent, never said that he got it to look just like PC Graphics mode.
[quote] your history of inflated claims[/quote]
Another Libertine lie. If I had such a history, you would have published a false claim long ago. The fact is, you are unable to find *any* example of an inflated claim that I have made. Where are these claims Libertine? With so many to choose from, you can find at least one, can't you? And no subjective characterizations that can be neither proved or disproved.
The problem you have is when I make a claim, I prove it by giving a link such as the one above. Anyone can follow that link and see that you are lying and I'm telling the truth. For example, my above links show people raving about the superior of CB mode over scaled low res 720P framepacking. Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res. So which of us is wrong? These links speak for themselves.
[quote] How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?[/quote]
Don't know off hand, I'd have to look that up.
My circuits fix a design defect in the nvidia software. Everyone who has paid me for a circuit has done so only because rollermod made their 3D gaming experience 100 times better. So after I tell them how to fix Nvidia's unsightly message that ruins the game, *for free*, they ask if they can just pay me for a circuit.
Right, CB = SBS != 720P. What's your point? Both SBS and CB are native res, 720P is scaled low res. So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB. It's because 75% of the 1280x720 image are misaligned on a 1920x1080 grid. My claims don't make it so, physics makes it so. It's called "scaling" look into it.
I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed.
So all the people in the above referenced threads are lying, it's a big conspiracy to make Libertine appear to be an idoit. You are right, everyone else is wrong?
Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes,
Right, and did you not say the opposite in your response above?
"@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory....."
So is my "pixel processing mode" a 'theory', something I made up to deceive people, or is it real? Make up your mind Libertine, take a side and stick with it.
after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
"Normal"???? What does that mean? Were you not implying that after his adjustments it looked just like PC Graphics processing?
C'mon Libertine, don't vascilate, did Franco say that there's no such thing as PC Graphics mode or not?
Let's be clear here....all Franco said was that he was able to improve Video mode to some extent, never said that he got it to look just like PC Graphics mode.
your history of inflated claims
Another Libertine lie. If I had such a history, you would have published a false claim long ago. The fact is, you are unable to find *any* example of an inflated claim that I have made. Where are these claims Libertine? With so many to choose from, you can find at least one, can't you? And no subjective characterizations that can be neither proved or disproved.
The problem you have is when I make a claim, I prove it by giving a link such as the one above. Anyone can follow that link and see that you are lying and I'm telling the truth. For example, my above links show people raving about the superior of CB mode over scaled low res 720P framepacking. Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res. So which of us is wrong? These links speak for themselves.
How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?
Don't know off hand, I'd have to look that up.
My circuits fix a design defect in the nvidia software. Everyone who has paid me for a circuit has done so only because rollermod made their 3D gaming experience 100 times better. So after I tell them how to fix Nvidia's unsightly message that ruins the game, *for free*, they ask if they can just pay me for a circuit.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 03:03 PM' timestamp='1323558190' post='1340521']
Right, CB = SBS != 720P........So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB.[/quote]
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS (and apparently CB by your comments). It looks like 720p with some AA on my screen. Does it offer a visual improvement? YES, does it make 720p look "hideous", NO! Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, (not to mention with Tridef SBS being available) and that 720p is hideous? NO!
[quote]
Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res.[/quote]Holy F, do you even read these conversations? I've never said 720p = CB or SBS. I said, (after testing SBS vs. 720p60 vs. 1080p24 for hours on end) that SBS looks marginally better than 720p. I also stuck up for it and said it is worth trying to achieve. But it doesn't make 720p look "hideous". If there were no such thing as AA, it would be different. But to me, SBS looks like 720p with 4x AA... Now i've told you that 60 times now.
[u]Hideous, definition: [/u]
1. horrible or frightful to the senses; repulsive; very ugly: a hideous monster. 2. shocking or revolting to the moral sense: a hideous crime. 3. distressing; appalling: the hideous expense of moving one's home to another city.
Maybe english isn't your first language???
How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 03:03 PM' timestamp='1323558190' post='1340521']
Right, CB = SBS != 720P........So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB.
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS (and apparently CB by your comments). It looks like 720p with some AA on my screen. Does it offer a visual improvement? YES, does it make 720p look "hideous", NO! Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, (not to mention with Tridef SBS being available) and that 720p is hideous? NO!
Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res.
Holy F, do you even read these conversations? I've never said 720p = CB or SBS. I said, (after testing SBS vs. 720p60 vs. 1080p24 for hours on end) that SBS looks marginally better than 720p. I also stuck up for it and said it is worth trying to achieve. But it doesn't make 720p look "hideous". If there were no such thing as AA, it would be different. But to me, SBS looks like 720p with 4x AA... Now i've told you that 60 times now.
Hideous, definition:
1. horrible or frightful to the senses; repulsive; very ugly: a hideous monster. 2. shocking or revolting to the moral sense: a hideous crime. 3. distressing; appalling: the hideous expense of moving one's home to another city.
Maybe english isn't your first language???
How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
[quote name='Libertine' date='10 December 2011 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1323561646' post='1340541']
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS[/quote]
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment.
[quote]Does it [CB]offer a visual improvement? YES[/quote]
So now you are agreeing with me. [quote] Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, .... NO![/quote]
You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that??
[quote]How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
[/quote]
I have never told any single individual to buy the best TV 30 times. Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations.
Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play.
You can use any adjective you like in attempt to trivialize the visual inferiority of 720P. After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV. I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit. We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720. Of course you go on to say that I should not advise people to get the 3DTV that gives superior picture quality.
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.
[quote name='Libertine' date='10 December 2011 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1323561646' post='1340541']
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment.
Does it [CB]offer a visual improvement? YES
So now you are agreeing with me.
Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, .... NO!
You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that??
How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
I have never told any single individual to buy the best TV 30 times. Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations.
Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play.
You can use any adjective you like in attempt to trivialize the visual inferiority of 720P. After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV. I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit. We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720. Of course you go on to say that I should not advise people to get the 3DTV that gives superior picture quality.
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1323564328' post='1340557']
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment. [/quote]
Hideous is not accurate, bottom line. I can barely tell the difference between SBS and 720p +AA.
[quote]So now you are agreeing with me. [/quote]That 720p is Hideous? No That CB and SBS offer is visual improvement? I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE, but when AA gets involved, the difference is marginal.
[quote]You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that?? [/quote] Its not because its not worth mentioning, its because you use words like "hideous" and misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.
[quote]Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations. [/quote] Bull****.
[quote]Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play. [/quote] Then why haven't I seen it? I do see people thanking you for your rollermod, but that doesn't mean 720p + aa is hideous. I see people comment against you too.
[quote]After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV. [/quote]This speaks a lot about you brother, not me.
[quote]I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit.[/quote] They don't fit, thats the whole point.
[quote]We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720. [/quote]Always have, but your comment are so excessive, always. "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.
[quote]
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.[/quote]With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon, supposedly anyway.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1323564328' post='1340557']
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment.
Hideous is not accurate, bottom line. I can barely tell the difference between SBS and 720p +AA.
So now you are agreeing with me.
That 720p is Hideous? No That CB and SBS offer is visual improvement? I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE, but when AA gets involved, the difference is marginal.
You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that??
Its not because its not worth mentioning, its because you use words like "hideous" and misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.
Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations.
Bull****.
Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play.
Then why haven't I seen it? I do see people thanking you for your rollermod, but that doesn't mean 720p + aa is hideous. I see people comment against you too.
After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV.
This speaks a lot about you brother, not me.
I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit.
They don't fit, thats the whole point.
We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720.
Always have, but your comment are so excessive, always. "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.
With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon, supposedly anyway.
[quote name='Libertine' date='10 December 2011 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1323570504' post='1340579']
Hideous is not accurate[/quote]
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.
[quote]CB and SBS offer is visual improvement, I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE[/quote]
And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality. It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?
And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?
[quote]Its not because its not worth mentioning[/quote]
Warning people about TVs with inferior image quality "isn't worth mentioning"?? Do you realize that info on 3D related equipment is one of the things people seek in a forum?? What should we say when asked, "no comment"? You wasted your money on a resolution crippled Sony, so you want others to do the same?
[quote] you use misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.[/quote]
Another outrageous lie, I have never said CB mode offers "full 1080P resolution" that would be wrong. Lying is your game, not mine.
[quote] Then why haven't I seen it?[/quote]
You didn't see this in the thread you posted to? Are you lying or do you have a conveniently forgetful memory?
Shinobier's post 'just bought 3DTV Play...' first post:
"720p on 47 inch screen looks kinda ugly"
You should really confine your lies to things we can't check out, makes you look bad when caught.
[quote]your comment "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.[/quote]
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution? If so, then CB is scaled, do I understand you? Is CBS/NBC/the CW/etc. lying when they say their resolution is 1920x1080? Is Nvidia lying when they refer to 1920x1080 as '1080i'? Are you the only person on earth who knows the definition of 'native resolution'? Everyone else is wrong?
[quote] With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon[/quote]
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.
[quote name='Libertine' date='10 December 2011 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1323570504' post='1340579']
Hideous is not accurate
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.
CB and SBS offer is visual improvement, I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE
And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality. It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?
And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?
Its not because its not worth mentioning
Warning people about TVs with inferior image quality "isn't worth mentioning"?? Do you realize that info on 3D related equipment is one of the things people seek in a forum?? What should we say when asked, "no comment"? You wasted your money on a resolution crippled Sony, so you want others to do the same?
you use misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.
Another outrageous lie, I have never said CB mode offers "full 1080P resolution" that would be wrong. Lying is your game, not mine.
Then why haven't I seen it?
You didn't see this in the thread you posted to? Are you lying or do you have a conveniently forgetful memory?
Shinobier's post 'just bought 3DTV Play...' first post:
"720p on 47 inch screen looks kinda ugly"
You should really confine your lies to things we can't check out, makes you look bad when caught.
your comment "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution? If so, then CB is scaled, do I understand you? Is CBS/NBC/the CW/etc. lying when they say their resolution is 1920x1080? Is Nvidia lying when they refer to 1920x1080 as '1080i'? Are you the only person on earth who knows the definition of 'native resolution'? Everyone else is wrong?
With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.
I wish we were having this conversation in person, it would be much, much shorter.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1323576727' post='1340606']
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.[/quote]
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization. If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution" (which you say to people brand ****ing new to 3D), it doesn't matter, because either way, its still very misleading based on my testing.
[quote]And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality.
It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?[/quote]Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.
[quote]And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?[/quote]Tridef /huh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' />
[quote]
Another outrageous lie, I have never said CB mode offers "full 1080P resolution" that would be wrong. Lying is your game, not mine.[/quote]"what you are calling "half rez" looks better than "full rez" 1080P framepacking." - Roller11
"Then you criticize me for saying that 1920x1080 CB looks better than 1920x1080 framepacking." - Roller11
[quote]You didn't see this in the thread you posted to? Are you lying or do you have a conveniently forgetful memory?[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url]
[quote]Shinobier's post 'just bought 3DTV Play...' first post:
"720p on 47 inch screen looks kinda ugly"[/quote]
Compared to what im used to 720p and SBS look kinda ugly. It sounded like a generalized statement to me.
[quote]
You should really confine your lies to things we can't check out, makes you look bad when caught.[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url]
[quote]
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution?[/quote]When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?
[quote]
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.[/quote]
Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.
I wish we were having this conversation in person, it would be much, much shorter.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1323576727' post='1340606']
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization. If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution" (which you say to people brand ****ing new to 3D), it doesn't matter, because either way, its still very misleading based on my testing.
And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality.
It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?
Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.
And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution?
When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.
Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.
[quote name='Libertine' date='13 December 2011 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1323783682' post='1341737']
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization.[/quote]
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word "characterization".
[quote]If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution"[/quote]
"Native resolution" is a prime example of something that is NOT a characterization. It is a mathematically precise definition. When you claim that scaled low res 720P "looks just like" native res checkerboard, you are making a "characterization", not a mis-characterization.
[quote] its still very misleading based on my testing.[/quote]
So a 100% accurate statement is misleading, interesting. This coming from a guy who always fails to tell his audience that he has never eyewitnessed the very thing he pretends to have knowledge of.
[quote]Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.[/quote]
I don't exaggerate, I give an honest appraisal. You keep forgeting that other people use the same language, the same descrpitions/adjectives I use. Nobody who has *actually seen* nvidia's CB on a samsung and also scaled 720P on the same TV is saying "wow, scaled 720P looks just native res 1920x1080". Everyone who has commented agrees with me and disagrees with you.
[quote] "what you are calling "half rez" looks better than "full rez" 1080P framepacking." - Roller11
"Then you criticize me for saying that 1920x1080 CB looks better than 1920x1080 framepacking." - Roller11[/quote]
Of course I said these things, so what? You falsely accused me of saying that CB is "full rez 1080P" something I never said. If you can find any evidence of me making the "CB=full rez 1080P" claim then provide the quote and include thread and post number so I will have proof that you lie about what I said.
[quote]Compared to what im used to 720p and SBS look kinda ugly. It sounded like a generalized statement to me.[/quote]
What???? He was talking about the TV he just bought!! You said nobody is saying that scaled 720P is "ugly" and there's a direct example of the OP saying exactly that. You really need to confine your lies to stuff that can't be verified.
[quote]When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?[/quote]
Hopefully the customer is going to think that a 1920x1080 image on a 1920x1080 fixed grid is native resolution.
[quote]Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.[/quote]
So immediately your entire arguement goes down the toilet. When you make a direct comparison, you must keep all variables the same except the variable your are comparing. By changing two variables at once (3D mode, 3D driver), the comparison is bogus. You are comparing SBS TriDef to nvidia framepacking. The correct comparison, the subject of this thread is Nvidia CB to Nvidia 720P framepacking.
Here's your problem, Libertine. You are trying to convince people that there's virtually no difference between scaled low res 1280x720 and native res 1920x1080. I say the opposite is true, which of us is deceptive? All a person needs to do is change his desktop res from native 1920x1080 to 1280x720. If you're right, the observer will see very little difference. If I'm right, the observer will see a big difference.
This is why your feeble attempts will never work, people can see for themselves which of us is the truth teller.
[quote name='Libertine' date='13 December 2011 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1323783682' post='1341737']
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization.
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word "characterization".
If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution"
"Native resolution" is a prime example of something that is NOT a characterization. It is a mathematically precise definition. When you claim that scaled low res 720P "looks just like" native res checkerboard, you are making a "characterization", not a mis-characterization.
its still very misleading based on my testing.
So a 100% accurate statement is misleading, interesting. This coming from a guy who always fails to tell his audience that he has never eyewitnessed the very thing he pretends to have knowledge of.
Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.
I don't exaggerate, I give an honest appraisal. You keep forgeting that other people use the same language, the same descrpitions/adjectives I use. Nobody who has *actually seen* nvidia's CB on a samsung and also scaled 720P on the same TV is saying "wow, scaled 720P looks just native res 1920x1080". Everyone who has commented agrees with me and disagrees with you.
"what you are calling "half rez" looks better than "full rez" 1080P framepacking." - Roller11
"Then you criticize me for saying that 1920x1080 CB looks better than 1920x1080 framepacking." - Roller11
Of course I said these things, so what? You falsely accused me of saying that CB is "full rez 1080P" something I never said. If you can find any evidence of me making the "CB=full rez 1080P" claim then provide the quote and include thread and post number so I will have proof that you lie about what I said.
Compared to what im used to 720p and SBS look kinda ugly. It sounded like a generalized statement to me.
What???? He was talking about the TV he just bought!! You said nobody is saying that scaled 720P is "ugly" and there's a direct example of the OP saying exactly that. You really need to confine your lies to stuff that can't be verified.
When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?
Hopefully the customer is going to think that a 1920x1080 image on a 1920x1080 fixed grid is native resolution.
Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.
So immediately your entire arguement goes down the toilet. When you make a direct comparison, you must keep all variables the same except the variable your are comparing. By changing two variables at once (3D mode, 3D driver), the comparison is bogus. You are comparing SBS TriDef to nvidia framepacking. The correct comparison, the subject of this thread is Nvidia CB to Nvidia 720P framepacking.
Here's your problem, Libertine. You are trying to convince people that there's virtually no difference between scaled low res 1280x720 and native res 1920x1080. I say the opposite is true, which of us is deceptive? All a person needs to do is change his desktop res from native 1920x1080 to 1280x720. If you're right, the observer will see very little difference. If I'm right, the observer will see a big difference.
This is why your feeble attempts will never work, people can see for themselves which of us is the truth teller.
Hey guys, this is somewhat on topic. I am looking at buying into this, and after reading a combination of this thread and other similar threads I have come to the realization I have no clue what i am doing. I was looking at getting a Samsung 32 inch UN32D6500 to try and use as a monitor replacement. I would rather get a UN40D6500 40 inch, but I am afraid that sitting 2 to 2 and a half feet away on my desk its going to cause issues with viewing 3d. I was hoping you guys might be able to steer me toward the best option for a desktop TV replacement here. I like to get bang for my buck but money isn't a huge concern. Also, if you have a suggestion please let me know what I would want for software configuration.
Hey guys, this is somewhat on topic. I am looking at buying into this, and after reading a combination of this thread and other similar threads I have come to the realization I have no clue what i am doing. I was looking at getting a Samsung 32 inch UN32D6500 to try and use as a monitor replacement. I would rather get a UN40D6500 40 inch, but I am afraid that sitting 2 to 2 and a half feet away on my desk its going to cause issues with viewing 3d. I was hoping you guys might be able to steer me toward the best option for a desktop TV replacement here. I like to get bang for my buck but money isn't a huge concern. Also, if you have a suggestion please let me know what I would want for software configuration.
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).
I need some user inputs on the 3d quality of the Sony and Samsung. How do both square up. I am sure they both compare differently in respects to options, but I am looking more towards the 3d aspects of the devices.
I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase.
I look forward to hearing your responses. Thanks again!
-Adrian
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).
I need some user inputs on the 3d quality of the Sony and Samsung. How do both square up. I am sure they both compare differently in respects to options, but I am looking more towards the 3d aspects of the devices.
I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase.
I look forward to hearing your responses. Thanks again!
-Adrian
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).[/quote]
If you are "trying to correct your mistake", then you are looking only at samsungs. Sony,Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, LG....none of these will fix the mistake you refer to. The ony way to get native resolution 3D gaming is with certain samsung models.
As to reviews, they are worthless because reviewers never test what we card about most, 3D gaming. Crosstalk on broadcast TV, Blu Ray 3D, youtube 3D vids, etc. have no relevance to crosstalk in 3D games, these reviews are only misleading.
[quote]I've read the reviews and just need personal experience from this point on to make an educated decision on my final purchase. [/quote]
I had a Sony Hx800 LED for about two months, the image quality was so bad in 3D games, I couldn't believe it. Scaled low res 720P in the wrong pixel processing mode was appauling. Then I learned that samsung was the only way to get native res 1920x1080 3D gaming, so I ditched my Sony for my current samsung and was astonished to see the difference. If I had to game in 3DTV Play framepacking, I'd go back to 2D gaming.
In an effort to correct my mistake, I am trying to get a screen that does indeed support CB mode. I love my Samsung hardware, but there is none available to me at the moment, and the Sony is for $999 (good sale imo).
If you are "trying to correct your mistake", then you are looking only at samsungs. Sony,Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, LG....none of these will fix the mistake you refer to. The ony way to get native resolution 3D gaming is with certain samsung models.
As to reviews, they are worthless because reviewers never test what we card about most, 3D gaming. Crosstalk on broadcast TV, Blu Ray 3D, youtube 3D vids, etc. have no relevance to crosstalk in 3D games, these reviews are only misleading.
I had a Sony Hx800 LED for about two months, the image quality was so bad in 3D games, I couldn't believe it. Scaled low res 720P in the wrong pixel processing mode was appauling. Then I learned that samsung was the only way to get native res 1920x1080 3D gaming, so I ditched my Sony for my current samsung and was astonished to see the difference. If I had to game in 3DTV Play framepacking, I'd go back to 2D gaming.
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
[/quote]
The only thing we resolved was your determination to deceive.
Franco reported only that changing these values has an effect on picture quality. Of course Libertine knows this, but feels compelled to rationalize his buying decision blunder.
Samsung is aware that there's a big difference between broadcast Video and PC Graphics, so Samsung provides a special PC processing mode so that the TV can be used as a computer monitor. This is why when switching between these two modes, the screen blanks for 1-2 seconds as it switches modes. Libertine would have us believe that there is no such thing as PC Graphics mode, there is only one mode. If this was true, if the TV was merely changing values in broadcast video mode, there would be no blanking. This has been verified by any number of people in this forum. Of course Libertine has no way of proving anything because he doesn't have a samsung.
PC Graphics mode *IS NOT* the same as broadcast video mode only with different settings, they are seperate and distinct. They use different video processing circuits so one cannot be made to look like the other.
To noobies who are influenced by Libertine's lies and half truths, check out these threads and decide for yourself who is being deceitful. Remember, Libertine has never played 3D games in checkerboard mode, so he is in no position to make a comparison.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=200925
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819
@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...
The only thing we resolved was your determination to deceive.
Franco reported only that changing these values has an effect on picture quality. Of course Libertine knows this, but feels compelled to rationalize his buying decision blunder.
Samsung is aware that there's a big difference between broadcast Video and PC Graphics, so Samsung provides a special PC processing mode so that the TV can be used as a computer monitor. This is why when switching between these two modes, the screen blanks for 1-2 seconds as it switches modes. Libertine would have us believe that there is no such thing as PC Graphics mode, there is only one mode. If this was true, if the TV was merely changing values in broadcast video mode, there would be no blanking. This has been verified by any number of people in this forum. Of course Libertine has no way of proving anything because he doesn't have a samsung.
PC Graphics mode *IS NOT* the same as broadcast video mode only with different settings, they are seperate and distinct. They use different video processing circuits so one cannot be made to look like the other.
To noobies who are influenced by Libertine's lies and half truths, check out these threads and decide for yourself who is being deceitful. Remember, Libertine has never played 3D games in checkerboard mode, so he is in no position to make a comparison.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=200925
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819
Roller, that you think i'd try to deceive or that its even possible for anyone to do that, says a hell of a lot about YOU, not me...
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB. Yet then you state that CB = side-by-side. I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed. Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes, like contrast and sharpening, but with your history of inflated claims, i come out right in the beginning thinking its bull. Youve led me on many wild goose chases that took up days of my time when i was new to 3D, only to find out what you said was just plain exaggerated. That is NOT ok! How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?
Roller, that you think i'd try to deceive or that its even possible for anyone to do that, says a hell of a lot about YOU, not me...
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB. Yet then you state that CB = side-by-side. I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed. Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes, like contrast and sharpening, but with your history of inflated claims, i come out right in the beginning thinking its bull. Youve led me on many wild goose chases that took up days of my time when i was new to 3D, only to find out what you said was just plain exaggerated. That is NOT ok! How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB.[/quote]
Me and about 100 other people.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=200925
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819
[quote]Yet then you state that CB = side-by-side.[/quote]
Right, CB = SBS != 720P. What's your point? Both SBS and CB are native res, 720P is scaled low res. So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB. It's because 75% of the 1280x720 image are misaligned on a 1920x1080 grid. My claims don't make it so, physics makes it so. It's called "scaling" look into it.
[quote] I've tested SBS vs 720p framepacking and the difference was not nearly like you claimed.[/quote]
So all the people in the above referenced threads are lying, it's a big conspiracy to make Libertine appear to be an idoit. You are right, everyone else is wrong? [quote]Samsung and Sony and others TVs may have a dedicated PC and video mode that amounts to more than basic image changes,[/quote]
Right, and did you not say the opposite in your response above?
"@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory....."
So is my "pixel processing mode" a 'theory', something I made up to deceive people, or is it real? Make up your mind Libertine, take a side and stick with it.
[quote]after Francong stated that the reason his Samsung TV looked so bad in frampacking was simply because the TV had had a preset of very high sharpness which he didn't realize at first and then after changing it, stated that it looked normal again...[/quote]
"Normal"???? What does that mean? Were you not implying that after his adjustments it looked just like PC Graphics processing?
C'mon Libertine, don't vascilate, did Franco say that there's no such thing as PC Graphics mode or not?
Let's be clear here....all Franco said was that he was able to improve Video mode to some extent, never said that he got it to look just like PC Graphics mode.
[quote] your history of inflated claims[/quote]
Another Libertine lie. If I had such a history, you would have published a false claim long ago. The fact is, you are unable to find *any* example of an inflated claim that I have made. Where are these claims Libertine? With so many to choose from, you can find at least one, can't you? And no subjective characterizations that can be neither proved or disproved.
The problem you have is when I make a claim, I prove it by giving a link such as the one above. Anyone can follow that link and see that you are lying and I'm telling the truth. For example, my above links show people raving about the superior of CB mode over scaled low res 720P framepacking. Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res. So which of us is wrong? These links speak for themselves.
[quote] How much money have you made off of CB btw selling your wiring?[/quote]
Don't know off hand, I'd have to look that up.
My circuits fix a design defect in the nvidia software. Everyone who has paid me for a circuit has done so only because rollermod made their 3D gaming experience 100 times better. So after I tell them how to fix Nvidia's unsightly message that ruins the game, *for free*, they ask if they can just pay me for a circuit.
The bottom line is that you continuously state 720p is hideous compared to CB.
Me and about 100 other people.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=200925
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819
Right, CB = SBS != 720P. What's your point? Both SBS and CB are native res, 720P is scaled low res. So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB. It's because 75% of the 1280x720 image are misaligned on a 1920x1080 grid. My claims don't make it so, physics makes it so. It's called "scaling" look into it.
So all the people in the above referenced threads are lying, it's a big conspiracy to make Libertine appear to be an idoit. You are right, everyone else is wrong?
Right, and did you not say the opposite in your response above?
"@Roller11:I thought we solved this "pixel processing mode" theory....."
So is my "pixel processing mode" a 'theory', something I made up to deceive people, or is it real? Make up your mind Libertine, take a side and stick with it.
"Normal"???? What does that mean? Were you not implying that after his adjustments it looked just like PC Graphics processing?
C'mon Libertine, don't vascilate, did Franco say that there's no such thing as PC Graphics mode or not?
Let's be clear here....all Franco said was that he was able to improve Video mode to some extent, never said that he got it to look just like PC Graphics mode.
Another Libertine lie. If I had such a history, you would have published a false claim long ago. The fact is, you are unable to find *any* example of an inflated claim that I have made. Where are these claims Libertine? With so many to choose from, you can find at least one, can't you? And no subjective characterizations that can be neither proved or disproved.
The problem you have is when I make a claim, I prove it by giving a link such as the one above. Anyone can follow that link and see that you are lying and I'm telling the truth. For example, my above links show people raving about the superior of CB mode over scaled low res 720P framepacking. Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res. So which of us is wrong? These links speak for themselves.
Don't know off hand, I'd have to look that up.
My circuits fix a design defect in the nvidia software. Everyone who has paid me for a circuit has done so only because rollermod made their 3D gaming experience 100 times better. So after I tell them how to fix Nvidia's unsightly message that ruins the game, *for free*, they ask if they can just pay me for a circuit.
Right, CB = SBS != 720P........So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB.[/quote]
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS (and apparently CB by your comments). It looks like 720p with some AA on my screen. Does it offer a visual improvement? YES, does it make 720p look "hideous", NO! Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, (not to mention with Tridef SBS being available) and that 720p is hideous? NO!
[quote]
Yet you say bull, 720P looks "just as good" as 1920x1080 native res.[/quote]Holy F, do you even read these conversations? I've never said 720p = CB or SBS. I said, (after testing SBS vs. 720p60 vs. 1080p24 for hours on end) that SBS looks marginally better than 720p. I also stuck up for it and said it is worth trying to achieve. But it doesn't make 720p look "hideous". If there were no such thing as AA, it would be different. But to me, SBS looks like 720p with 4x AA... Now i've told you that 60 times now.
[u]Hideous, definition: [/u]
1. horrible or frightful to the senses; repulsive; very ugly: a hideous monster. 2. shocking or revolting to the moral sense: a hideous crime. 3. distressing; appalling: the hideous expense of moving one's home to another city.
Maybe english isn't your first language???
How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
Right, CB = SBS != 720P........So OF COURSE scaled low res 720P looks hideous vs SBS or CB.
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS (and apparently CB by your comments). It looks like 720p with some AA on my screen. Does it offer a visual improvement? YES, does it make 720p look "hideous", NO! Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, (not to mention with Tridef SBS being available) and that 720p is hideous? NO!
Holy F, do you even read these conversations? I've never said 720p = CB or SBS. I said, (after testing SBS vs. 720p60 vs. 1080p24 for hours on end) that SBS looks marginally better than 720p. I also stuck up for it and said it is worth trying to achieve. But it doesn't make 720p look "hideous". If there were no such thing as AA, it would be different. But to me, SBS looks like 720p with 4x AA... Now i've told you that 60 times now.
Hideous, definition:
1. horrible or frightful to the senses; repulsive; very ugly: a hideous monster. 2. shocking or revolting to the moral sense: a hideous crime. 3. distressing; appalling: the hideous expense of moving one's home to another city.
Maybe english isn't your first language???
How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS[/quote]
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment.
[quote]Does it [CB]offer a visual improvement? YES[/quote]
So now you are agreeing with me. [quote] Is it worth constantly telling people to only buy a Samsung, .... NO![/quote]
You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that??
[quote]How many times have you told a brand new forum member that 720p is hideous? 30 times?
[/quote]
I have never told any single individual to buy the best TV 30 times. Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations.
Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play.
You can use any adjective you like in attempt to trivialize the visual inferiority of 720P. After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV. I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit. We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720. Of course you go on to say that I should not advise people to get the 3DTV that gives superior picture quality.
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.
What my point? Its that 720p doesn't look "hideous" compared to SBS
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment.
So now you are agreeing with me.
You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that??
I have never told any single individual to buy the best TV 30 times. Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations.
Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play.
You can use any adjective you like in attempt to trivialize the visual inferiority of 720P. After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV. I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit. We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720. Of course you go on to say that I should not advise people to get the 3DTV that gives superior picture quality.
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment. [/quote]
Hideous is not accurate, bottom line. I can barely tell the difference between SBS and 720p +AA.
[quote]So now you are agreeing with me. [/quote]That 720p is Hideous? No That CB and SBS offer is visual improvement? I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE, but when AA gets involved, the difference is marginal.
[quote]You admit that samsung gives the best image quality,then you admonish me for telling them to buy samsung? Should I tell them to buy a 3DTV that gives inferior image quality in 3D games??? What kind of crazy logic is that?? [/quote] Its not because its not worth mentioning, its because you use words like "hideous" and misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.
[quote]Noobies come into this forum all the time, so the message must be repeated. Mostly, I repeat the message to undo your misrepresentations. [/quote] Bull****.
[quote]Are you denying the fact that others besides me have decribed 720P as hideous, ugly, grotesque, god awful, butt ugly?...these are the descriptions that others use to characterize scaled low res 720P 3DTV Play. [/quote] Then why haven't I seen it? I do see people thanking you for your rollermod, but that doesn't mean 720p + aa is hideous. I see people comment against you too.
[quote]After all, you have to defend your decision to buy a non-native res 3DTV. [/quote]This speaks a lot about you brother, not me.
[quote]I have nothing to defend, so I use characterizations that fit.[/quote] They don't fit, thats the whole point.
[quote]We are both speaking in arbitrary subjective terms, but at least you are now admitting native res 1920x1080 beats scaled low res 1280x720. [/quote]Always have, but your comment are so excessive, always. "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.
[quote]
This is a free forum so I will continue to advise noobies to buy the TV that gives them the best 3D gaming experience. By your own admission, this is samsung.[/quote]With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon, supposedly anyway.
"hideous" is a subjective characterization, so it can't be impeached. A "claim" is a quantifiable assessment.
Hideous is not accurate, bottom line. I can barely tell the difference between SBS and 720p +AA.
That 720p is Hideous? No That CB and SBS offer is visual improvement? I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE, but when AA gets involved, the difference is marginal.
Its not because its not worth mentioning, its because you use words like "hideous" and misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.
Bull****.
Then why haven't I seen it? I do see people thanking you for your rollermod, but that doesn't mean 720p + aa is hideous. I see people comment against you too.
This speaks a lot about you brother, not me.
They don't fit, thats the whole point.
Always have, but your comment are so excessive, always. "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.
With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon, supposedly anyway.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
Hideous is not accurate[/quote]
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.
[quote]CB and SBS offer is visual improvement, I ALWAYS HAVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE[/quote]
And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality. It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?
And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?
[quote]Its not because its not worth mentioning[/quote]
Warning people about TVs with inferior image quality "isn't worth mentioning"?? Do you realize that info on 3D related equipment is one of the things people seek in a forum?? What should we say when asked, "no comment"? You wasted your money on a resolution crippled Sony, so you want others to do the same?
[quote] you use misleading phrases like "full 1080p resolution" to describe it.[/quote]
Another outrageous lie, I have never said CB mode offers "full 1080P resolution" that would be wrong. Lying is your game, not mine.
[quote] Then why haven't I seen it?[/quote]
You didn't see this in the thread you posted to? Are you lying or do you have a conveniently forgetful memory?
Shinobier's post 'just bought 3DTV Play...' first post:
"720p on 47 inch screen looks kinda ugly"
You should really confine your lies to things we can't check out, makes you look bad when caught.
[quote]your comment "native resolution" "full 1080p", its misleading.[/quote]
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution? If so, then CB is scaled, do I understand you? Is CBS/NBC/the CW/etc. lying when they say their resolution is 1920x1080? Is Nvidia lying when they refer to 1920x1080 as '1080i'? Are you the only person on earth who knows the definition of 'native resolution'? Everyone else is wrong?
[quote] With Tridef, SBS works on any 3dtv. Nvidia will support it soon[/quote]
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.
Hideous is not accurate
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.
And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality. It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?
And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?
Warning people about TVs with inferior image quality "isn't worth mentioning"?? Do you realize that info on 3D related equipment is one of the things people seek in a forum?? What should we say when asked, "no comment"? You wasted your money on a resolution crippled Sony, so you want others to do the same?
Another outrageous lie, I have never said CB mode offers "full 1080P resolution" that would be wrong. Lying is your game, not mine.
You didn't see this in the thread you posted to? Are you lying or do you have a conveniently forgetful memory?
Shinobier's post 'just bought 3DTV Play...' first post:
"720p on 47 inch screen looks kinda ugly"
You should really confine your lies to things we can't check out, makes you look bad when caught.
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution? If so, then CB is scaled, do I understand you? Is CBS/NBC/the CW/etc. lying when they say their resolution is 1920x1080? Is Nvidia lying when they refer to 1920x1080 as '1080i'? Are you the only person on earth who knows the definition of 'native resolution'? Everyone else is wrong?
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1323576727' post='1340606']
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.[/quote]
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization. If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution" (which you say to people brand ****ing new to 3D), it doesn't matter, because either way, its still very misleading based on my testing.
[quote]And yet you tell me to not advise getting the 3DTV that offers the best visual quality.
It follows then that I should advise people to get the 3DTV that gets inferior image quality, am I right?[/quote]Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.
[quote]And how do you make this SBS 1920x1080 vs framepacking 720P comparison given that Nvidia doesn't even have SBS mode in their 3D gaming software? Another Libertine deception?[/quote]Tridef
[quote]
Another outrageous lie, I have never said CB mode offers "full 1080P resolution" that would be wrong. Lying is your game, not mine.[/quote]"what you are calling "half rez" looks better than "full rez" 1080P framepacking." - Roller11
"Then you criticize me for saying that 1920x1080 CB looks better than 1920x1080 framepacking." - Roller11
[quote]You didn't see this in the thread you posted to? Are you lying or do you have a conveniently forgetful memory?[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url]
[quote]Shinobier's post 'just bought 3DTV Play...' first post:
"720p on 47 inch screen looks kinda ugly"[/quote]
Compared to what im used to 720p and SBS look kinda ugly. It sounded like a generalized statement to me.
[quote]
You should really confine your lies to things we can't check out, makes you look bad when caught.[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url]
[quote]
So your claim is that a 1-1 mapped 1920x1080 image on a fixed grid 1920x1080 screen is not native resolution?[/quote]When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?
[quote]
Prediction not fact. It is what it is until it is something different, and SBS is not supported by Nvidia.[/quote]
Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.
[quote name='roller11' date='10 December 2011 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1323576727' post='1340606']
"Hideous" is a characterization, the word "accurate" doesn't apply.
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization. If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution" (which you say to people brand ****ing new to 3D), it doesn't matter, because either way, its still very misleading based on my testing.
Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.
Tridef
"what you are calling "half rez" looks better than "full rez" 1080P framepacking." - Roller11
"Then you criticize me for saying that 1920x1080 CB looks better than 1920x1080 framepacking." - Roller11
;feature=related" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
Compared to what im used to 720p and SBS look kinda ugly. It sounded like a generalized statement to me.
;feature=related" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?
Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization.[/quote]
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word "characterization".
[quote]If you define characterization some other way, like "native resolution"[/quote]
"Native resolution" is a prime example of something that is NOT a characterization. It is a mathematically precise definition. When you claim that scaled low res 720P "looks just like" native res checkerboard, you are making a "characterization", not a mis-characterization.
[quote] its still very misleading based on my testing.[/quote]
So a 100% accurate statement is misleading, interesting. This coming from a guy who always fails to tell his audience that he has never eyewitnessed the very thing he pretends to have knowledge of.
[quote]Im saying it doesn't help people to exaggerate. You should give them an honest appraisal and let them choose what they want to do.[/quote]
I don't exaggerate, I give an honest appraisal. You keep forgeting that other people use the same language, the same descrpitions/adjectives I use. Nobody who has *actually seen* nvidia's CB on a samsung and also scaled 720P on the same TV is saying "wow, scaled 720P looks just native res 1920x1080". Everyone who has commented agrees with me and disagrees with you.
[quote] "what you are calling "half rez" looks better than "full rez" 1080P framepacking." - Roller11
"Then you criticize me for saying that 1920x1080 CB looks better than 1920x1080 framepacking." - Roller11[/quote]
Of course I said these things, so what? You falsely accused me of saying that CB is "full rez 1080P" something I never said. If you can find any evidence of me making the "CB=full rez 1080P" claim then provide the quote and include thread and post number so I will have proof that you lie about what I said.
[quote]Compared to what im used to 720p and SBS look kinda ugly. It sounded like a generalized statement to me.[/quote]
What???? He was talking about the TV he just bought!! You said nobody is saying that scaled 720P is "ugly" and there's a direct example of the OP saying exactly that. You really need to confine your lies to stuff that can't be verified.
[quote]When you take out half the pixels it isn't. Imagine overhearing a salesman telling a customer that "the native resolution of the display is...." , what do you think that customers going to think?[/quote]
Hopefully the customer is going to think that a 1920x1080 image on a 1920x1080 fixed grid is native resolution.
[quote]Tridef, i used tridef, like i mentioned the very first time we talked about this, right before you expressed interest in whether frame sequential was supported by Tridef.[/quote]
So immediately your entire arguement goes down the toilet. When you make a direct comparison, you must keep all variables the same except the variable your are comparing. By changing two variables at once (3D mode, 3D driver), the comparison is bogus. You are comparing SBS TriDef to nvidia framepacking. The correct comparison, the subject of this thread is Nvidia CB to Nvidia 720P framepacking.
Here's your problem, Libertine. You are trying to convince people that there's virtually no difference between scaled low res 1280x720 and native res 1920x1080. I say the opposite is true, which of us is deceptive? All a person needs to do is change his desktop res from native 1920x1080 to 1280x720. If you're right, the observer will see very little difference. If I'm right, the observer will see a big difference.
This is why your feeble attempts will never work, people can see for themselves which of us is the truth teller.
When all i have to do to make 720p very hard to distinguish from SBS is turn on 4X AA, then its a mis-characterization.
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word "characterization".
"Native resolution" is a prime example of something that is NOT a characterization. It is a mathematically precise definition. When you claim that scaled low res 720P "looks just like" native res checkerboard, you are making a "characterization", not a mis-characterization.
So a 100% accurate statement is misleading, interesting. This coming from a guy who always fails to tell his audience that he has never eyewitnessed the very thing he pretends to have knowledge of.
I don't exaggerate, I give an honest appraisal. You keep forgeting that other people use the same language, the same descrpitions/adjectives I use. Nobody who has *actually seen* nvidia's CB on a samsung and also scaled 720P on the same TV is saying "wow, scaled 720P looks just native res 1920x1080". Everyone who has commented agrees with me and disagrees with you.
Of course I said these things, so what? You falsely accused me of saying that CB is "full rez 1080P" something I never said. If you can find any evidence of me making the "CB=full rez 1080P" claim then provide the quote and include thread and post number so I will have proof that you lie about what I said.
What???? He was talking about the TV he just bought!! You said nobody is saying that scaled 720P is "ugly" and there's a direct example of the OP saying exactly that. You really need to confine your lies to stuff that can't be verified.
Hopefully the customer is going to think that a 1920x1080 image on a 1920x1080 fixed grid is native resolution.
So immediately your entire arguement goes down the toilet. When you make a direct comparison, you must keep all variables the same except the variable your are comparing. By changing two variables at once (3D mode, 3D driver), the comparison is bogus. You are comparing SBS TriDef to nvidia framepacking. The correct comparison, the subject of this thread is Nvidia CB to Nvidia 720P framepacking.
Here's your problem, Libertine. You are trying to convince people that there's virtually no difference between scaled low res 1280x720 and native res 1920x1080. I say the opposite is true, which of us is deceptive? All a person needs to do is change his desktop res from native 1920x1080 to 1280x720. If you're right, the observer will see very little difference. If I'm right, the observer will see a big difference.
This is why your feeble attempts will never work, people can see for themselves which of us is the truth teller.
Thanks!
Thanks!