Lack of appretiation
  4 / 5    
Don Quixote faugth windmills to no practical effect and I was equating myself to him. I Believe I am ready to do something useful instead. If not I still want some degree of apreciation for trying if I get far enogh result wise. I don't want to talk further as I don't know what my results will be.
Don Quixote faugth windmills to no practical effect and I was equating myself to him.

I Believe I am ready to do something useful instead. If not I still want some degree of apreciation for trying if I get far enogh result wise.

I don't want to talk further as I don't know what my results will be.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#46
Posted 12/11/2014 11:09 PM   
Hi Flugan, Would you please consider changing your profile picture? I personally find it a little unnerving, and wholly unlike the smart, well meaning person everyone here knows you to be :) Looking forward to your future endeavours!
Hi Flugan,

Would you please consider changing your profile picture? I personally find it a little unnerving, and wholly unlike the smart, well meaning person everyone here knows you to be :)

Looking forward to your future endeavours!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#47
Posted 12/12/2014 01:03 AM   
Thanks for the hint Rage changed to a more reasonable image and a lot more personal. Sometimes you're steam profile image is not appropriative elsewhere. If it would just work
Thanks for the hint Rage changed to a more reasonable image and a lot more personal.

Sometimes you're steam profile image is not appropriative elsewhere.

If it would just work

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#48
Posted 12/12/2014 01:51 AM   
Bump to see if my new profile image works.
Bump to see if my new profile image works.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#49
Posted 12/12/2014 02:16 AM   
I believe profile images need moderator approval, it may take a while to display.
I believe profile images need moderator approval, it may take a while to display.

#50
Posted 12/12/2014 02:47 AM   
Explains things, thx.
Explains things, thx.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#51
Posted 12/12/2014 03:47 AM   
Well, I'm a little hesitant to wade into this discussion, because I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I would like to clarify a few points. Firstly, I'm not offended by any less than flattering comments. My motivation is really simple, I just want more fixes for more games. Like anyone, I like getting recognition for my work, but since that is not my main motivation, it's not that important to me to be seen as the hero. Also, I really, really enjoy working on fun+hard problems. For me the day-to-day work involved is what keeps it interesting enough to do for almost a year now. It's also worth noting that coding at this level is serious black-art voodoo, and I don't expect anyone to really understand what I do. Solving insane problems like why DXGI crashes only on Win8.1 are part of the magic that no one can really understand unless they are serious at coding. I'm good at this stuff, and I enjoy it, and that's enough for me to keep working on it. But please do keep saying thanks, it's good for everyone, and I definitely like to know that stuff is being used. Even though it's fun, I definitely do not want to spend my personal time on stuff that never gets used. For the early timing of wrappers- It was unfortunate timing. It was my idea to open-source 3Dmigoto early on after the Bioshock drama died down, and I contacted Chiri 1.5 months before Project Flugan was launched. Chiri has had some setbacks in life, and that led to a slow response, but ultimately a 'yes'. That was maybe 3 weeks after Project Flugan was launched, and I made sure that Flugan knew this was potentially on the horizon. I say potentially, because there was no guarantee it would happen. Busy lives, lose track of time, the usual. IIRC, it took another 1 or 1.5 months before Chiri released the code to me, and I could put it up on github and get started. So overall, 3Dmigoto seems jinxed to hit the worst timing possible with other developers. Early on, it was not at all clear if this was even a good way to go. 3Dmigoto was not in particularly good shape, and would crash on nearly every game tried. The Decompiler in particular was fragile and not fully fleshed out. At that point, it wasn't clear if going assembly or HLSL w/ Decompiler would be best. Flugan already had his assembler, so this was not an easy choice. I made the decision to push the Decompiler a little further to get a better sense for how good it might be. I made that choice because I have an extremely long history of languages, assemblers, compilers, parsers, and you name it- and high-level languages are extremely valuable. At this late date, I'm still not certain it was the best choice, but I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised by what we've been able to achieve with the Decompiler, even given its glitches. Now I do have an ego, and I do like to be thought of as a smart guy, so I feel compelled to address whether I could write a wrapper from scratch or not. Early on, the answer was no, no way. I didn't know anything about Windows programming, and wrappers are a little obscure even in the Windows world. I'd read the obvious stuff that my experience would suggest is clearly a superior way to go- using Detours, then see everyone else using these stupid ProxyDLL overrides as their techniques and not understand why. Now after a year of learning I understand why- it's because those people don't know what they are doing either. Detours is in fact the far superior choice. (actually Deviare In-Proc now, x64 is free) Helix also confirmed that hooking is far superior. So could I write a wrapper from scratch now? Yes, without any question. But I'd use hooking, not wrapping. More to the point, the wrapper/hooks are not the hard part of making the tool. After all, once you get one hook or wrap to work, the rest are simply boilerplate copy/paste. The real complexity comes in when you want to do stuff like make hotkeys change convergence, or provide variable constants to shaders, or create a reliable shader hunting mechanism. Then make that all work on the goddawful 8.1 too. So why didn't I rewrite 3Dmigoto to use that approach? After all, working on someone elses code is about 5x harder than working on your own code. Because I care more about results than code purity. Even Chiri agrees that 3Dmigoto is poorly structured and a bit of a mess- but that doesn't matter. It still has thousands of hours of debugging in it already, and that is time that would have to be respent. The illusion of software is that if I write it MY way, that it will be better, and cleaner, and simpler. But the reality from long hard experience is that it's not necessarily better, it's just different. A long, long time ago I learned all these lessons, and I wrote them down in a technical journal. I don't expect this will be all that interesting, but if anyone is curious about why I make the decisions I do, this is sort of my manifesto: http://www.mactech.com/articles/develop/issue_25/veteran.html People in Bo3b's School for Shaderhackers will immediately recognize some of the things I stress. :->
Well, I'm a little hesitant to wade into this discussion, because I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I would like to clarify a few points.

Firstly, I'm not offended by any less than flattering comments. My motivation is really simple, I just want more fixes for more games. Like anyone, I like getting recognition for my work, but since that is not my main motivation, it's not that important to me to be seen as the hero. Also, I really, really enjoy working on fun+hard problems. For me the day-to-day work involved is what keeps it interesting enough to do for almost a year now.

It's also worth noting that coding at this level is serious black-art voodoo, and I don't expect anyone to really understand what I do. Solving insane problems like why DXGI crashes only on Win8.1 are part of the magic that no one can really understand unless they are serious at coding.

I'm good at this stuff, and I enjoy it, and that's enough for me to keep working on it. But please do keep saying thanks, it's good for everyone, and I definitely like to know that stuff is being used. Even though it's fun, I definitely do not want to spend my personal time on stuff that never gets used.


For the early timing of wrappers- It was unfortunate timing. It was my idea to open-source 3Dmigoto early on after the Bioshock drama died down, and I contacted Chiri 1.5 months before Project Flugan was launched. Chiri has had some setbacks in life, and that led to a slow response, but ultimately a 'yes'.

That was maybe 3 weeks after Project Flugan was launched, and I made sure that Flugan knew this was potentially on the horizon. I say potentially, because there was no guarantee it would happen. Busy lives, lose track of time, the usual. IIRC, it took another 1 or 1.5 months before Chiri released the code to me, and I could put it up on github and get started.

So overall, 3Dmigoto seems jinxed to hit the worst timing possible with other developers.

Early on, it was not at all clear if this was even a good way to go. 3Dmigoto was not in particularly good shape, and would crash on nearly every game tried. The Decompiler in particular was fragile and not fully fleshed out. At that point, it wasn't clear if going assembly or HLSL w/ Decompiler would be best. Flugan already had his assembler, so this was not an easy choice.

I made the decision to push the Decompiler a little further to get a better sense for how good it might be. I made that choice because I have an extremely long history of languages, assemblers, compilers, parsers, and you name it- and high-level languages are extremely valuable. At this late date, I'm still not certain it was the best choice, but I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised by what we've been able to achieve with the Decompiler, even given its glitches.


Now I do have an ego, and I do like to be thought of as a smart guy, so I feel compelled to address whether I could write a wrapper from scratch or not.

Early on, the answer was no, no way. I didn't know anything about Windows programming, and wrappers are a little obscure even in the Windows world. I'd read the obvious stuff that my experience would suggest is clearly a superior way to go- using Detours, then see everyone else using these stupid ProxyDLL overrides as their techniques and not understand why.

Now after a year of learning I understand why- it's because those people don't know what they are doing either. Detours is in fact the far superior choice. (actually Deviare In-Proc now, x64 is free) Helix also confirmed that hooking is far superior.

So could I write a wrapper from scratch now? Yes, without any question. But I'd use hooking, not wrapping. More to the point, the wrapper/hooks are not the hard part of making the tool. After all, once you get one hook or wrap to work, the rest are simply boilerplate copy/paste. The real complexity comes in when you want to do stuff like make hotkeys change convergence, or provide variable constants to shaders, or create a reliable shader hunting mechanism. Then make that all work on the goddawful 8.1 too.

So why didn't I rewrite 3Dmigoto to use that approach? After all, working on someone elses code is about 5x harder than working on your own code. Because I care more about results than code purity. Even Chiri agrees that 3Dmigoto is poorly structured and a bit of a mess- but that doesn't matter. It still has thousands of hours of debugging in it already, and that is time that would have to be respent.

The illusion of software is that if I write it MY way, that it will be better, and cleaner, and simpler. But the reality from long hard experience is that it's not necessarily better, it's just different.

A long, long time ago I learned all these lessons, and I wrote them down in a technical journal. I don't expect this will be all that interesting, but if anyone is curious about why I make the decisions I do, this is sort of my manifesto:

http://www.mactech.com/articles/develop/issue_25/veteran.html

People in Bo3b's School for Shaderhackers will immediately recognize some of the things I stress. :->

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#52
Posted 12/12/2014 09:47 AM   
Thanks Bo3b for this informative and smart explanation. And thanks again for your awesome collaborative work which keeps 3Dvision alive with DX11!
Thanks Bo3b for this informative and smart explanation.

And thanks again for your awesome collaborative work which keeps 3Dvision alive with DX11!

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR

#53
Posted 12/12/2014 11:05 AM   
*gasp* did. did you... did you just out yourself as a Mac guy? My worldview just crashed
*gasp* did. did you... did you just out yourself as a Mac guy?

My worldview just crashed

ImageVolnaPC.com - Tips, tweaks, performance comparisons (PhysX card, SLI scaling, etc)

#54
Posted 12/12/2014 11:13 AM   
@bo3b You have a good work ethic. I'm jelous :) I need to refocus, havn't wpent time with my hook wrapper for 8 weeks. The wrapper is an important means to an end but not an solution by itself. Bo3b is right focus on a fe things and finish them. Even if it's just a single thing. Finally bo3b I apologize for assuming you wouldn't start your own wrapper this timeframe last year. My Point is you didn't have to and to look at this years progress 3Dmigoto is really great.
@bo3b You have a good work ethic. I'm jelous :)

I need to refocus, havn't wpent time with my hook wrapper for 8 weeks.
The wrapper is an important means to an end but not an solution by itself.

Bo3b is right focus on a fe things and finish them. Even if it's just a single thing.

Finally bo3b I apologize for assuming you wouldn't start your own wrapper this timeframe last year.
My Point is you didn't have to and to look at this years progress 3Dmigoto is really great.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#55
Posted 12/12/2014 11:20 AM   
+1 Flugan
+1 Flugan

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR

#56
Posted 12/12/2014 12:00 PM   
That's an awesome portrait of you Flugan! Kudos on supporting bo3b's (Rob, Robert?) work. You too have a crucial role to play in the community ;-)
That's an awesome portrait of you Flugan!

Kudos on supporting bo3b's (Rob, Robert?) work.

You too have a crucial role to play in the community ;-)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#57
Posted 12/12/2014 12:31 PM   
[quote="bo3b"] Now after a year of learning I understand why- it's because those people don't know what they are doing either. Detours is in fact the far superior choice. (actually Deviare In-Proc now, x64 is free) Helix also confirmed that hooking is far superior. ... But I'd use hooking, not wrapping. More to the point, the wrapper/hooks are not the hard part of making the tool. After all, once you get one hook or wrap to work, the rest are simply boilerplate copy/paste. The real complexity comes in when you want to do stuff like make hotkeys change convergence, or provide variable constants to shaders, or create a reliable shader hunting mechanism. .... [/quote] Extremely well said !!! Another advantage is the "time-to-market" (aka developing time). Using Hooks is very fast. Problem is what you do inside them;)) That's how I was able to create the OGL "wrapper" (I should call it a hooker :)) but might be confused with something else... hahahahha). I want to say again A BIG thank you for not abandoning the 3DMigoto Project and for constantly improving it;))
bo3b said:

Now after a year of learning I understand why- it's because those people don't know what they are doing either. Detours is in fact the far superior choice. (actually Deviare In-Proc now, x64 is free) Helix also confirmed that hooking is far superior.

... But I'd use hooking, not wrapping. More to the point, the wrapper/hooks are not the hard part of making the tool. After all, once you get one hook or wrap to work, the rest are simply boilerplate copy/paste. The real complexity comes in when you want to do stuff like make hotkeys change convergence, or provide variable constants to shaders, or create a reliable shader hunting mechanism.
....




Extremely well said !!! Another advantage is the "time-to-market" (aka developing time). Using Hooks is very fast. Problem is what you do inside them;)) That's how I was able to create the OGL "wrapper" (I should call it a hooker :)) but might be confused with something else... hahahahha).

I want to say again A BIG thank you for not abandoning the 3DMigoto Project and for constantly improving it;))

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#58
Posted 12/12/2014 01:38 PM   
Happy Belated Birthday Flugan :-) , Thank you for your assistance. And thank you all for the help here, and probably the kindest forum I've ever seen. Bless you all!
Happy Belated Birthday Flugan :-) , Thank you for your assistance.

And thank you all for the help here, and probably the kindest forum I've ever seen. Bless you all!

#59
Posted 12/12/2014 02:42 PM   
[quote="Flugan"]@bo3b You have a good work ethic. I'm jelous :) I need to refocus, havn't wpent time with my hook wrapper for 8 weeks. The wrapper is an important means to an end but not an solution by itself. Bo3b is right focus on a fe things and finish them. Even if it's just a single thing. Finally bo3b I apologize for assuming you wouldn't start your own wrapper this timeframe last year. My Point is you didn't have to and to look at this years progress 3Dmigoto is really great.[/quote] Thanks for contributing Flugan, your talents will surely not go to waste. It's valued more than you may believe. [quote="bo3b"]Firstly, I'm not offended by any less than flattering comments. My motivation is really simple, I just want more fixes for more games. Like anyone, I like getting recognition for my work, but since that is not my main motivation, it's not that important to me to be seen as the hero. Also, I really, really enjoy working on fun+hard problems. For me the day-to-day work involved is what keeps it interesting enough to do for almost a year now.[/quote] Although you explained your motivation, there was no need to because in my mind, your actions are proof of that. Your explanations on stuff are always well articulated.
Flugan said:@bo3b You have a good work ethic. I'm jelous :)

I need to refocus, havn't wpent time with my hook wrapper for 8 weeks.
The wrapper is an important means to an end but not an solution by itself.

Bo3b is right focus on a fe things and finish them. Even if it's just a single thing.

Finally bo3b I apologize for assuming you wouldn't start your own wrapper this timeframe last year.
My Point is you didn't have to and to look at this years progress 3Dmigoto is really great.


Thanks for contributing Flugan, your talents will surely not go to waste. It's valued more than you may believe.

bo3b said:Firstly, I'm not offended by any less than flattering comments. My motivation is really simple, I just want more fixes for more games. Like anyone, I like getting recognition for my work, but since that is not my main motivation, it's not that important to me to be seen as the hero. Also, I really, really enjoy working on fun+hard problems. For me the day-to-day work involved is what keeps it interesting enough to do for almost a year now.


Although you explained your motivation, there was no need to because in my mind, your actions are proof of that. Your explanations on stuff are always well articulated.

#60
Posted 12/12/2014 03:49 PM   
  4 / 5    
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