Switching from ATI 6850 to nVidia 3D
  4 / 6    
If i play BF3 & Metro once a month and WoW & Skyrim 4 times a week. Which games do you think i would look for in reviews? I dropped $400 based of reviews of WoW & Skyrim. I would not care about a game I could easily never play again. If others are running 4Ghz and getting 80+ fps on ultra in WoW. I expect similar results. Atleast 60+ Im currently scratching my head. Im on my old Phen II 3 core 2.8Ghz with the 670. I took a SS but i see there's no uploading here. After the FPS and CPU steady out for test. The 3 cores run around 34 to 74%. Normally 2 cores will be around 40% and 3rd core will be around 70%. Also, the GTX670 is only running around a steady 54% load. Avg FPS in game in test spot, 28fps. CPU temp stays around 32C. I know WoW used to push the cores above 70%+ and taxing 1-2 of the cores. Any idea what could be limiting the cpu & gpu usage? Going to slap the ati in old system and see if it's another amd thing favoring their ati.
If i play BF3 & Metro once a month and WoW & Skyrim 4 times a week. Which games do you think i would look for in reviews? I dropped $400 based of reviews of WoW & Skyrim. I would not care about a game I could easily never play again. If others are running 4Ghz and getting 80+ fps on ultra in WoW. I expect similar results. Atleast 60+

Im currently scratching my head. Im on my old Phen II 3 core 2.8Ghz with the 670.
I took a SS but i see there's no uploading here. After the FPS and CPU steady out for test. The 3 cores run around 34 to 74%. Normally 2 cores will be around 40% and 3rd core will be around 70%.
Also, the GTX670 is only running around a steady 54% load. Avg FPS in game in test spot, 28fps.
CPU temp stays around 32C. I know WoW used to push the cores above 70%+ and taxing 1-2 of the cores. Any idea what could be limiting the cpu & gpu usage?
Going to slap the ati in old system and see if it's another amd thing favoring their ati.

#46
Posted 05/04/2013 05:54 PM   
TianNguyen, I have no idea what you're on about. Erasmus, do you have access to an intel system to drop the card in to? If you can demonstrate that it's definitely underperforming, you may have a faulty card.
TianNguyen, I have no idea what you're on about.


Erasmus, do you have access to an intel system to drop the card in to? If you can demonstrate that it's definitely underperforming, you may have a faulty card.

#47
Posted 05/04/2013 06:35 PM   
Well. I tested the 6850. CPU was exactly the same. FPS same at 28fps. Only difference is while the GFX670 stayed at a load of 54% the 6850 stayed at a stead 34% load. Just to go further. Since it just hit me that this MB (GA-MA790XT-UD4P) is only PCIe x16 1.0. I installed it's original HD4770 and did the same test. Of course it's not apple to apple since the 4770 is only DX 10.1. But it allowed the CPU cores to have all 3 go above 70% and GPU load of about 80%. Sadly at 1080 ultra the 4770 could only maintain 19fps in DX10. Time for more research. Anyone else run a single GTX670 and have WoW to tell me their FPS / MB & CPU?
Well. I tested the 6850. CPU was exactly the same. FPS same at 28fps. Only difference is while the GFX670 stayed at a load of 54% the 6850 stayed at a stead 34% load.
Just to go further. Since it just hit me that this MB (GA-MA790XT-UD4P) is only PCIe x16 1.0. I installed it's original HD4770 and did the same test. Of course it's not apple to apple since the 4770 is only DX 10.1. But it allowed the CPU cores to have all 3 go above 70% and GPU load of about 80%. Sadly at 1080 ultra the 4770 could only maintain 19fps in DX10.

Time for more research. Anyone else run a single GTX670 and have WoW to tell me their FPS / MB & CPU?

#48
Posted 05/04/2013 06:51 PM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Erasmus, do you have access to an intel system to drop the card in to? If you can demonstrate that it's definitely underperforming, you may have a faulty card.[/quote] Wish I did. Would be a great troubleshooter. For now I can only ask if anyone else has a single GTX670 and can post their MB / CPU & FPS at 1080 ultra in WoW. Default Ultra settings without changing a thing
Pirateguybrush said:Erasmus, do you have access to an intel system to drop the card in to? If you can demonstrate that it's definitely underperforming, you may have a faulty card.


Wish I did. Would be a great troubleshooter.
For now I can only ask if anyone else has a single GTX670 and can post their MB / CPU & FPS at 1080 ultra in WoW. Default Ultra settings without changing a thing

#49
Posted 05/04/2013 06:55 PM   
Had my buddy bring over his 660 and slapped it in my system to compare to my 670. Orgrimmar in WoW is greatly packed so it was a good time to test with everyone casting out of boredom. Each test was about 5 minutes long standing in one spot. Again, Ultra 1080. GTX 660 in 2D - 28-29fps pretty steady. Mostly constant 28 GTX 670 in 2D - 27-28fps pretty steady. But again, mostly steady 28fps GTX 660 in 3D vision - 11fps GTX 670 in 3D vision - 18fps Cooky.. ya may be right on CPU limiting even though its running 4Ghz quad core. Baffles me that it would be limiting when the cores avg maybe 50% and don't really go past 60%. To me it sounds like putting a governor on a LT1 motor so it never goes past 45mph.. just doesn't make sense.
Had my buddy bring over his 660 and slapped it in my system to compare to my 670.
Orgrimmar in WoW is greatly packed so it was a good time to test with everyone casting out of boredom. Each test was about 5 minutes long standing in one spot. Again, Ultra 1080.

GTX 660 in 2D - 28-29fps pretty steady. Mostly constant 28
GTX 670 in 2D - 27-28fps pretty steady. But again, mostly steady 28fps

GTX 660 in 3D vision - 11fps
GTX 670 in 3D vision - 18fps

Cooky.. ya may be right on CPU limiting even though its running 4Ghz quad core. Baffles me that it would be limiting when the cores avg maybe 50% and don't really go past 60%. To me it sounds like putting a governor on a LT1 motor so it never goes past 45mph.. just doesn't make sense.

#50
Posted 05/05/2013 02:06 AM   
Heres a thing. Are you disabling 3DVis from the control panel when starting games in 2D? Or just hitting the hotkey to disable it? Doing the latter doesn't bring FPS all the way back up to what it should be.
Heres a thing. Are you disabling 3DVis from the control panel when starting games in 2D? Or just hitting the hotkey to disable it? Doing the latter doesn't bring FPS all the way back up to what it should be.

#51
Posted 05/05/2013 02:41 AM   
I tested 2D first with 3D stereoscopic disabled in NVidia control panel
I tested 2D first with 3D stereoscopic disabled in NVidia control panel

#52
Posted 05/05/2013 02:52 AM   
Sounds like a textbook case of CPU bottleneck to me.
Sounds like a textbook case of CPU bottleneck to me.

#53
Posted 05/05/2013 06:44 AM   
It doesn't make sense that the CPU would be a bottleneck, when it wasn't in the AMD case. With the CPU's ticking over at less than half usage, and the Nvidia card ticking over at half usage, it is clear there is another bottleneck somewhere. Could easily be motherboaard drivers. If they blocked you from running properly without an AMD card, there might be something else there, like causing PCI bus to run at 1x speed or something. I think it's pretty clearly time to try a clean install. You have an unknown bottleneck. If you don't want to lose your current setup, make an image, or setup a dual boot for a clean install. Your instincts are right, there is no way this hardware should run this poorly.
It doesn't make sense that the CPU would be a bottleneck, when it wasn't in the AMD case. With the CPU's ticking over at less than half usage, and the Nvidia card ticking over at half usage, it is clear there is another bottleneck somewhere.

Could easily be motherboaard drivers. If they blocked you from running properly without an AMD card, there might be something else there, like causing PCI bus to run at 1x speed or something.

I think it's pretty clearly time to try a clean install. You have an unknown bottleneck. If you don't want to lose your current setup, make an image, or setup a dual boot for a clean install.

Your instincts are right, there is no way this hardware should run this poorly.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#54
Posted 05/05/2013 08:09 AM   
I just did some testing on WoW with a trial account, using SLI 670 and non SLI with the DX9 WoW client and then the DX11 in 2D and 3D, thank god I ran it on an SSD, there was a lot of client restarting :-) I ran the test outside the AH in Stormwind, its fairly quiet though. My main account is frozen so I unfortunately cant test anywhere else at the moment. I'm running an i5 2500k 3.3 clocked to 4.3, 8GB RAM and win7 x64 with all settings in WoW at ultra with no AA. Using the latest NVidia drivers and EVGA Precision X. Single card results: 2D DX9 - 90% GPU usage - 84 FPS 3D DX9 - 52% GPU usage - 38 FPS 2D DX11 - 83% GPU usage - 98 FPS 3D DX11 - 62% GPU usage - 42 FPS SLI results: 2D DX9 - 50/50 GPU usage - 81 FPS 3D DX9 - 60/78 GPU usage - 66 FPS 2D DX11 - 50/50 GPU usage - 92 FPS 3D DX11 - 50/68 GPU usage - 57 FPS Edit: So I just loaded up the game to test DX11 3D single card performance. I ran from Stormwind to the small place down the road where people all go to duel. I'm getting 70% GPU usage and 35-40% CPU usage. On the journey there in 2D DX11 I was getting over 90% GPU usage in some places. It seems WoW has some sort of scaling issue when you enable 3D, and would explain why my old 580 was getting such crappy results when I tried out the MoP expansion a few months ago. It also looks like running in SLI in 2D is a waste of time vs using a single card in 2D.
I just did some testing on WoW with a trial account, using SLI 670 and non SLI with the DX9 WoW client and then the DX11 in 2D and 3D, thank god I ran it on an SSD, there was a lot of client restarting :-)

I ran the test outside the AH in Stormwind, its fairly quiet though. My main account is frozen so I unfortunately cant test anywhere else at the moment.

I'm running an i5 2500k 3.3 clocked to 4.3, 8GB RAM and win7 x64 with all settings in WoW at ultra with no AA. Using the latest NVidia drivers and EVGA Precision X.


Single card results:

2D DX9 - 90% GPU usage - 84 FPS
3D DX9 - 52% GPU usage - 38 FPS

2D DX11 - 83% GPU usage - 98 FPS
3D DX11 - 62% GPU usage - 42 FPS

SLI results:

2D DX9 - 50/50 GPU usage - 81 FPS
3D DX9 - 60/78 GPU usage - 66 FPS

2D DX11 - 50/50 GPU usage - 92 FPS
3D DX11 - 50/68 GPU usage - 57 FPS

Edit:

So I just loaded up the game to test DX11 3D single card performance. I ran from Stormwind to the small place down the road where people all go to duel. I'm getting 70% GPU usage and 35-40% CPU usage.

On the journey there in 2D DX11 I was getting over 90% GPU usage in some places. It seems WoW has some sort of scaling issue when you enable 3D, and would explain why my old 580 was getting such crappy results when I tried out the MoP expansion a few months ago. It also looks like running in SLI in 2D is a waste of time vs using a single card in 2D.

i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide

Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2

#55
Posted 05/05/2013 10:03 AM   
Thanks for the testing Foulplay. In Win 8 pro I just use the app Core Temp and the game in 1080 window mode. I don't have a sidebar app with graphs to record like my old system with windows Vista. What app would you recommend so I can run full screen and view graph/results later for cpu/gpu loads? I'm going to take out my Samsung 840 SSD and reinstall windows on a Samsung 840 pro SSD. Lets see if a clean install with latest gigabyte MB drivers helps any. Installing windows is quick but tricky. It's the upgrade version of Windows 8 pro they had for $40. So I have to do the registry edit trick to make it do a clean install :) If anyone else with a 660 or 670 can also test and use an app like Core Temp to post cpu loads that would be awesome. A comparison of another AMD cpu/apu with load results & fps would really help. Will post my results on clean install in a bit :)
Thanks for the testing Foulplay.
In Win 8 pro I just use the app Core Temp and the game in 1080 window mode. I don't have a sidebar app with graphs to record like my old system with windows Vista. What app would you recommend so I can run full screen and view graph/results later for cpu/gpu loads?

I'm going to take out my Samsung 840 SSD and reinstall windows on a Samsung 840 pro SSD.
Lets see if a clean install with latest gigabyte MB drivers helps any. Installing windows is quick but tricky. It's the upgrade version of Windows 8 pro they had for $40. So I have to do the registry edit trick to make it do a clean install :)

If anyone else with a 660 or 670 can also test and use an app like Core Temp to post cpu loads that would be awesome. A comparison of another AMD cpu/apu with load results & fps would really help.
Will post my results on clean install in a bit :)

#56
Posted 05/05/2013 03:10 PM   
I use EVGA Precision to show GPU loads, and I just used the windows 7 hardware monitor to check out my CPU load.
I use EVGA Precision to show GPU loads, and I just used the windows 7 hardware monitor to check out my CPU load.

i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide

Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2

#57
Posted 05/05/2013 04:09 PM   
Very interesting that FoulPlay99 got similar results, in that neither the CPU or GPU is maxed out when in 3D Vision. Hate to say it, but based on those results, it does seem consistent with a CPU bottleneck. Looks like Wow is massively single-threaded, so that you only use a single core for the game. That would explain why the CPU graph is so low. 25% for 4 core for example. [url]http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/801508-WoW-multi-CPU-core-support[/url] [url]http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1129685-WoW-multi-core-support[/url] More recent, some discussion of AMD v. Intel efficiency in single thread case: [url]http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1286931-Framerate-issues-in-wow-GTX-680-Intel-core-i7-3-40GHz[/url] Clean install might still be worthwhile, wouldn't hurt to stop at the Vista install and see how it runs there to take out the Win8 variable. Vista is essentially Win7 at this point.
Very interesting that FoulPlay99 got similar results, in that neither the CPU or GPU is maxed out when in 3D Vision.

Hate to say it, but based on those results, it does seem consistent with a CPU bottleneck. Looks like Wow is massively single-threaded, so that you only use a single core for the game. That would explain why the CPU graph is so low. 25% for 4 core for example.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/801508-WoW-multi-CPU-core-support
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1129685-WoW-multi-core-support

More recent, some discussion of AMD v. Intel efficiency in single thread case:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1286931-Framerate-issues-in-wow-GTX-680-Intel-core-i7-3-40GHz


Clean install might still be worthwhile, wouldn't hurt to stop at the Vista install and see how it runs there to take out the Win8 variable. Vista is essentially Win7 at this point.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#58
Posted 05/05/2013 09:53 PM   
I wouldn't rule out CPU bottlenecks completely, infact given the GPU its paired with I'd bet on it. If I reset my CPU to stock clocks, FPS takes a pretty significant nosedive even though it isn't maxing out its usage.
I wouldn't rule out CPU bottlenecks completely, infact given the GPU its paired with I'd bet on it. If I reset my CPU to stock clocks, FPS takes a pretty significant nosedive even though it isn't maxing out its usage.

#59
Posted 05/05/2013 10:34 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]Clean install might still be worthwhile, wouldn't hurt to stop at the Vista install and see how it runs there to take out the Win8 variable. Vista is essentially Win7 at this point.[/quote] Just keep in mind that Vista support for 3D Vision/3DTV Play was dropped at 310
bo3b said:Clean install might still be worthwhile, wouldn't hurt to stop at the Vista install and see how it runs there to take out the Win8 variable. Vista is essentially Win7 at this point.


Just keep in mind that Vista support for 3D Vision/3DTV Play was dropped at 310

#60
Posted 05/05/2013 10:50 PM   
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