My 2 cents on Nvidia mid Jannuary announcment
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Valve in his Steam dev days (15-16 Jannuary) has talked about the future of VR in pc gaming and his Steam support, for what i have read they have right now the most advanced R&D VR prototipe that exist, more even than the Oculus Crystal Cove, but they are not planning to launch a commercial product based in his technology, instead of this as i have seen in one of the slides they plan to support with his knowledge other´s PC companies like Oculus who plan to launch their own VR product´s in the next years http://media.steampowered.com/apps/abrashblog/Abrash%20Dev%20Days%202014.pdf http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/18/valve-vr-steam-dev-days/ "Given Valve's openness during Dev Days and Abrash's assertion that Valve is open to working with any partners to push VR forward, we're certain to hear more in the coming years" "Abrash said "several" companies are working on VR headsets, though we only know of two officially creating consumer products (Oculus and GameFace Labs)"
Valve in his Steam dev days (15-16 Jannuary) has talked about the future of VR in pc gaming and his Steam support, for what i have read they have right now the most advanced R&D VR prototipe that exist, more even than the Oculus Crystal Cove, but they are not planning to launch a commercial product based in his technology, instead of this as i have seen in one of the slides they plan to support with his knowledge other´s PC companies like Oculus who plan to launch their own VR product´s in the next years


http://media.steampowered.com/apps/abrashblog/Abrash%20Dev%20Days%202014.pdf


http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/18/valve-vr-steam-dev-days/


"Given Valve's openness during Dev Days and Abrash's assertion that Valve is open to working with any partners to push VR forward, we're certain to hear more in the coming years"
"Abrash said "several" companies are working on VR headsets, though we only know of two officially creating consumer products (Oculus and GameFace Labs)"

#1
Posted 01/19/2014 11:53 AM   
Think you're reading way too much into it. Abrash and Joe Ludwig's presentations are both published in PDF form (videos will be released in next couple weeks... although it's just them speaking what's written): (Added the Ludwig presentation) http://media.steampowered.com/apps/a...nd%20Steam.pdf The Abrash talk is absolutely fantastic for understanding the bare minimums for achieving "presence" in VR. Needless to say, Nvidia and AMD are going to be very happy about how it not only requires tons of processing power, but obviously has to be done locally to have any chance at "motion to photon in 20ms". The Cloud weeps at its requirements. The Ludwig talk is the more surprising (if you've followed a lot of Carmack or Abrash in the past) because it shows just how far Valve is involved in this. They're betting on VR BIG TIME. And they're baking a VR API into Steamworks that's basically the 3D Vision of VR. But obviously hardware agnostic in terms of GPU or VR wares. Companies like EA would never support this until the market proves itself, but if VR does take off, Valve will own the platform space before they even get started. It really is incredibly ambitious.
Think you're reading way too much into it.

Abrash and Joe Ludwig's presentations are both published in PDF form (videos will be released in next couple weeks... although it's just them speaking what's written):

(Added the Ludwig presentation)

http://media.steampowered.com/apps/a...nd%20Steam.pdf

The Abrash talk is absolutely fantastic for understanding the bare minimums for achieving "presence" in VR. Needless to say, Nvidia and AMD are going to be very happy about how it not only requires tons of processing power, but obviously has to be done locally to have any chance at "motion to photon in 20ms". The Cloud weeps at its requirements.

The Ludwig talk is the more surprising (if you've followed a lot of Carmack or Abrash in the past) because it shows just how far Valve is involved in this. They're betting on VR BIG TIME. And they're baking a VR API into Steamworks that's basically the 3D Vision of VR. But obviously hardware agnostic in terms of GPU or VR wares. Companies like EA would never support this until the market proves itself, but if VR does take off, Valve will own the platform space before they even get started. It really is incredibly ambitious.

#2
Posted 01/19/2014 05:46 PM   
Though how interesting would it be if Nvidia became a technology partner for Oculus? Perhaps providing one important piece of their hardware or software
Though how interesting would it be if Nvidia became a technology partner for Oculus? Perhaps providing one important piece of their hardware or software

#3
Posted 01/19/2014 07:58 PM   
Why would nvidia partner with a device that could work on AMD devices. Thats doesn't make business sense since neither party has something the other wants. Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.
Why would nvidia partner with a device that could work on AMD devices. Thats doesn't make business sense since neither party has something the other wants.

Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.

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#4
Posted 01/19/2014 08:27 PM   
I think it's all a load of rubbish! <-- Oh no! He didn't just say he thinks nVidia might have been telling more porkies did he? ;)
I think it's all a load of rubbish!

<-- Oh no! He didn't just say he thinks nVidia might have been telling more porkies did he? ;)

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#5
Posted 01/19/2014 08:39 PM   
[quote="eqzitara"] Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.[/quote] I don't think that's really true. Some of the best uses of Oculus Rift have been with sim games like iRacing. Sim racers are going to be amazing. Eve: Valkyre has shown all the space sim games are going to be amazing. Here's a good article on IL-2 (Flight game): http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09/06/best-of-gamescom-il-2-sturmovik-and-oculus-rift/ So flight games are already amazing. All of these games are in a cockpit with an avatar for your body. The Crystal Crove demo done by Epic was basically a top down board game. Pinball FX and Pinball Arcade would already be amazing (If either developer decided to support it). Ironically enough, first person shooters are the one genre that most needs to be rethought. And I'm sure those games will have an avatar for your body too. I'm not really expecting Activision, EA, and UBI to be in that first wave, but they're kind of irrelevant to anything that's not cookie-cutter. Survival horror is going to be pretty amazing too. Routine and The Forest both have confirmed support and could be amazing. So does The Witness. There are so many really awesome (although not from the AAAA publishers) games coming. Here's hoping No Man's Sky also hops on board.
eqzitara said:

Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.


I don't think that's really true. Some of the best uses of Oculus Rift have been with sim games like iRacing. Sim racers are going to be amazing. Eve: Valkyre has shown all the space sim games are going to be amazing. Here's a good article on IL-2 (Flight game):

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09/06/best-of-gamescom-il-2-sturmovik-and-oculus-rift/

So flight games are already amazing. All of these games are in a cockpit with an avatar for your body.

The Crystal Crove demo done by Epic was basically a top down board game.

Pinball FX and Pinball Arcade would already be amazing (If either developer decided to support it).

Ironically enough, first person shooters are the one genre that most needs to be rethought. And I'm sure those games will have an avatar for your body too.

I'm not really expecting Activision, EA, and UBI to be in that first wave, but they're kind of irrelevant to anything that's not cookie-cutter.

Survival horror is going to be pretty amazing too. Routine and The Forest both have confirmed support and could be amazing. So does The Witness.

There are so many really awesome (although not from the AAAA publishers) games coming. Here's hoping No Man's Sky also hops on board.

#6
Posted 01/19/2014 10:09 PM   
[quote="eqzitara"]Why would nvidia partner with a device that could work on AMD devices. Thats doesn't make business sense. Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.[/quote] Because sales = money, you can just ask the $2B a year microsoft makes from the sales of android phones + tablets if this is true.
eqzitara said:Why would nvidia partner with a device that could work on AMD devices. Thats doesn't make business sense.

Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.


Because sales = money, you can just ask the $2B a year microsoft makes from the sales of android phones + tablets if this is true.

#7
Posted 01/20/2014 12:16 AM   
[quote="Paul33993"][quote="eqzitara"] Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.[/quote] I don't think that's really true. Some of the best uses of Oculus Rift have been with sim games like iRacing. Sim racers are going to be amazing. Eve: Valkyre has shown all the space sim games are going to be amazing. Here's a good article on IL-2 (Flight game): [/quote] Sim is first person simulated first person cockpit view *at least normally* And yes, I agree sim works very well and probably will be some of the best games on the rift. Nor do I doubt that "sim" games will get a very high amount of developers adding support especially since they target enthusiasts and have a stronger focus on PC. "FPS" I am very doubtful of because they are usually the big developers and targeting multiple platforms. I am saying that however that regardless of Developers adding support and how well they do it. Less then 20% of games are going to be good for it. Now we get bitching and moaning whenever a game has no 3D support. That's like less then 20% of games. I am also being very generous with those numbers. TBH, it sound like you are just as realistic as I am about it. Will be amazing for some games, most games won't get implementation. Most people think its going to be the "Playstation 5". Too many people confuse what it is/ what it could be in 5 years/ what they want it do be. @kolreth That comparison makes no sense. Nvidia/Oculus gain nothing by obtaining a hardware manufactoring partnership. Not to mention you are comparing android/ with VR where it literally has no market yet. Sales = money sure.. but there is no connection. What can Nvidia offer them hardware wise that they need for implementation of headset. Rift "could" support the shield or nvidia could support exclusive graphical features of a game on Rift but both these examples are software/mutually beneficial. If I am wrong, I would like you to point out how it could mutually beneficial to both parties to have a hardware partnership and what hardware exactly. Cause to be honest it sounds like your grasping. Also, I know nothing about phones but Microsoft doesn't make android phones according to google and as far as I know all there devices use there propierartary OS's so I am really confused by what you mean.
Paul33993 said:
eqzitara said:

Regardless of VR taking off or not. There isnt really a point of 2 vr devices at least yet. Its practically limited to first person games. 3D device is better off since it would have a broader selection.


I don't think that's really true. Some of the best uses of Oculus Rift have been with sim games like iRacing. Sim racers are going to be amazing. Eve: Valkyre has shown all the space sim games are going to be amazing. Here's a good article on IL-2 (Flight game):



Sim is first person
simulated first person cockpit view *at least normally*

And yes, I agree sim works very well and probably will be some of the best games on the rift. Nor do I doubt that "sim" games will get a very high amount of developers adding support especially since they target enthusiasts and have a stronger focus on PC. "FPS" I am very doubtful of because they are usually the big developers and targeting multiple platforms.
I am saying that however that regardless of Developers adding support and how well they do it. Less then 20% of games are going to be good for it. Now we get bitching and moaning whenever a game has no 3D support. That's like less then 20% of games. I am also being very generous with those numbers.
TBH, it sound like you are just as realistic as I am about it. Will be amazing for some games, most games won't get implementation. Most people think its going to be the "Playstation 5". Too many people confuse what it is/ what it could be in 5 years/ what they want it do be.

@kolreth
That comparison makes no sense. Nvidia/Oculus gain nothing by obtaining a hardware manufactoring partnership. Not to mention you are comparing android/ with VR where it literally has no market yet. Sales = money sure.. but there is no connection. What can Nvidia offer them hardware wise that they need for implementation of headset. Rift "could" support the shield or nvidia could support exclusive graphical features of a game on Rift but both these examples are software/mutually beneficial.
If I am wrong, I would like you to point out how it could mutually beneficial to both parties to have a hardware partnership and what hardware exactly. Cause to be honest it sounds like your grasping.

Also, I know nothing about phones but Microsoft doesn't make android phones according to google and as far as I know all there devices use there propierartary OS's so I am really confused by what you mean.

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If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#8
Posted 01/20/2014 12:23 AM   
You don't have to make your own devices to make money, you can also license patents. Like MS did and continues to do to android phones while having a competing OS that costs money for companies to license. ARM has made a crapton of money from processors without ever having to make one. Come up with a key tech, and let other ppl pay you to use it. It's a proven business strategy. Sometimes having things in the market as well, even if being pushed by a competitor, is of benefit to yourself, like when AMD came up with the patent that allowed 64 bit processors to run 32 bit code in effective ways, until that point 64 bit processors ran 32 bit programs like total arse. AMD saw that letting intel license the patent at 0 cost was good for themselves. Sometimes having things available for free increases sales in many other ways. Nvidia were once pretty good at seeing the big picture, maybe since AMD grabbed the entire share of the console market this gen cept for ninty, maybe this has shaken them up a bit.
You don't have to make your own devices to make money, you can also license patents. Like MS did and continues to do to android phones while having a competing OS that costs money for companies to license. ARM has made a crapton of money from processors without ever having to make one. Come up with a key tech, and let other ppl pay you to use it. It's a proven business strategy.

Sometimes having things in the market as well, even if being pushed by a competitor, is of benefit to yourself, like when AMD came up with the patent that allowed 64 bit processors to run 32 bit code in effective ways, until that point 64 bit processors ran 32 bit programs like total arse. AMD saw that letting intel license the patent at 0 cost was good for themselves.

Sometimes having things available for free increases sales in many other ways. Nvidia were once pretty good at seeing the big picture, maybe since AMD grabbed the entire share of the console market this gen cept for ninty, maybe this has shaken them up a bit.

#9
Posted 01/20/2014 03:29 AM   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_Player_One If you haven't read this book as yet I suggest that you all take a look at it. While it is fiction it paints a lovely picture of where VR can be headed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_Player_One


If you haven't read this book as yet I suggest that you all take a look at it. While it is fiction it paints a lovely picture of where VR can be headed.

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#10
Posted 01/20/2014 03:47 AM   
[quote="Kolreth"]You don't have to make your own devices to make money, you can also license patents. Like MS did and continues to do to android phones while having a competing OS that costs money for companies to license. ARM has made a crapton of money from processors without ever having to make one. Come up with a key tech, and let other ppl pay you to use it. It's a proven business strategy. Sometimes having things in the market as well, even if being pushed by a competitor, is of benefit to yourself, like when AMD came up with the patent that allowed 64 bit processors to run 32 bit code in effective ways, until that point 64 bit processors ran 32 bit programs like total arse. AMD saw that letting intel license the patent at 0 cost was good for themselves. Sometimes having things available for free increases sales in many other ways. Nvidia were once pretty good at seeing the big picture, maybe since AMD grabbed the entire share of the console market this gen cept for ninty, maybe this has shaken them up a bit.[/quote] thanks for typing what was in my head :)
Kolreth said:You don't have to make your own devices to make money, you can also license patents. Like MS did and continues to do to android phones while having a competing OS that costs money for companies to license. ARM has made a crapton of money from processors without ever having to make one. Come up with a key tech, and let other ppl pay you to use it. It's a proven business strategy.

Sometimes having things in the market as well, even if being pushed by a competitor, is of benefit to yourself, like when AMD came up with the patent that allowed 64 bit processors to run 32 bit code in effective ways, until that point 64 bit processors ran 32 bit programs like total arse. AMD saw that letting intel license the patent at 0 cost was good for themselves.

Sometimes having things available for free increases sales in many other ways. Nvidia were once pretty good at seeing the big picture, maybe since AMD grabbed the entire share of the console market this gen cept for ninty, maybe this has shaken them up a bit.


thanks for typing what was in my head :)

#11
Posted 01/20/2014 04:47 AM   
Nvidia could maybe use the same 3D Vision technology to do what Verio Perception does, just perhaps maybe easier/better (?). So, still no mid_January announcement then?
Nvidia could maybe use the same 3D Vision technology to do what Verio Perception does, just perhaps maybe easier/better (?).

So, still no mid_January announcement then?

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#12
Posted 01/20/2014 07:21 AM   
[quote="Paul33993"]Companies like EA would never support this until the market proves itself, but if VR does take off, Valve will own the platform space before they even get started. It really is incredibly ambitious.[/quote] http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/18/dice-seeking-thesis-student-to-implement-oculus-rift-support-in-frostbite/ EA, like everyone else in this business, is aware of what is going on in the "VR underground". Because they already know that VR will be a part of gaming industry in a near future. Of course, VR will never replace the "classic" gaming (flat screen without HMD).But it will certainly represent an additional market, with billions dollars to share for companies which have believed in it. The situation now is that big companies are trying to calculate when and how invest in VR, and how they could make money with it in the next 5/10 years: a game studio could choose to invest in VR devkit and developpers training; a hardware manufacturer (like Nvidia) could communicate and spend money in marketing, promoting the VR technology to attract new customers. The next step will be to convince people that VR is not only a "sim-game device" (which is just as wrong as saying that video games are only for geeks/ no life teenagers), but a unique opportunity to put leisure (including gaming) in another dimension, a new era, like humanity has never seen before.
Paul33993 said:Companies like EA would never support this until the market proves itself, but if VR does take off, Valve will own the platform space before they even get started. It really is incredibly ambitious.


http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/18/dice-seeking-thesis-student-to-implement-oculus-rift-support-in-frostbite/

EA, like everyone else in this business, is aware of what is going on in the "VR underground". Because they already know that VR will be a part of gaming industry in a near future. Of course, VR will never replace the "classic" gaming (flat screen without HMD).But it will certainly represent an additional market, with billions dollars to share for companies which have believed in it.

The situation now is that big companies are trying to calculate when and how invest in VR, and how they could make money with it in the next 5/10 years: a game studio could choose to invest in VR devkit and developpers training; a hardware manufacturer (like Nvidia) could communicate and spend money in marketing, promoting the VR technology to attract new customers.

The next step will be to convince people that VR is not only a "sim-game device" (which is just as wrong as saying that video games are only for geeks/ no life teenagers), but a unique opportunity to put leisure (including gaming) in another dimension, a new era, like humanity has never seen before.

#13
Posted 01/20/2014 01:00 PM   
I laugh when I see people on more console oriented gaming boards saying PCs don't have a single exclusive game to drive sales and act like VR is not about to start becoming a viable home experience.
I laugh when I see people on more console oriented gaming boards saying PCs don't have a single exclusive game to drive sales and act like VR is not about to start becoming a viable home experience.

#14
Posted 01/20/2014 01:41 PM   
[quote="Kolreth"]I laugh when I see people on more console oriented gaming boards saying PCs don't have a single exclusive game to drive sales and act like VR is not about to start becoming a viable home experience.[/quote] I hope it is too, but i always remember how many people play non-immersive/ego games i would never be interested in, like Sim City and mobile games. That is why i think they must really, REALLY get it right the first time. So people don't react like they do to 2D ->3D movie conversions and those judgements aren't solidified, despite improvements.
Kolreth said:I laugh when I see people on more console oriented gaming boards saying PCs don't have a single exclusive game to drive sales and act like VR is not about to start becoming a viable home experience.

I hope it is too, but i always remember how many people play non-immersive/ego games i would never be interested in, like Sim City and mobile games. That is why i think they must really, REALLY get it right the first time. So people don't react like they do to 2D ->3D movie conversions and those judgements aren't solidified, despite improvements.

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#15
Posted 01/20/2014 02:27 PM   
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