3D glasses darken worse than competition
Hello.

I've had 3D Vision glasses and monitor for 2-3 months now.
Generally they worked, but experience was two-sided.
On the one hand it was very nice, on the other hand far from perfect.
You know the usuals, gosting, many games not being adequately
optized for 3d vision, and the image darkens so much.

On the last point, I want you to know of somethign I have recently
found out:

By nature of the technology, some reduction in brightness is unavoidable,
however Nvidia has done a poorer job on calibrating this than competitors.

I recently went to a media store selling all kinds of technical equipment
(called media markt, available in germany and austria). There is a TV and hi-fi
section containing a few3d tv monitors readily set up so you can try them out.

I tried them out, and noticed the brightness of the image was only somewhat
reduced. The brightness reduction of Nvidia 3d vision is much more pronounced,
and makes it difficult to make out details.
I had to turn up brightness and gamma quite noticably in the nvidia controls
to see adequate details, however this introduced worse contrast
and more ghosting.

Just though you should know.

Any of you know if it is possible to hook up nvidia 3d vision with such 3d tv
sets that have their own 3d glasses?
Just out of interest.. its no option for me because those are just too large
for a pc screen and far more expensive..


Morkeleb
Hello.



I've had 3D Vision glasses and monitor for 2-3 months now.

Generally they worked, but experience was two-sided.

On the one hand it was very nice, on the other hand far from perfect.

You know the usuals, gosting, many games not being adequately

optized for 3d vision, and the image darkens so much.



On the last point, I want you to know of somethign I have recently

found out:



By nature of the technology, some reduction in brightness is unavoidable,

however Nvidia has done a poorer job on calibrating this than competitors.



I recently went to a media store selling all kinds of technical equipment

(called media markt, available in germany and austria). There is a TV and hi-fi

section containing a few3d tv monitors readily set up so you can try them out.



I tried them out, and noticed the brightness of the image was only somewhat

reduced. The brightness reduction of Nvidia 3d vision is much more pronounced,

and makes it difficult to make out details.

I had to turn up brightness and gamma quite noticably in the nvidia controls

to see adequate details, however this introduced worse contrast

and more ghosting.



Just though you should know.



Any of you know if it is possible to hook up nvidia 3d vision with such 3d tv

sets that have their own 3d glasses?

Just out of interest.. its no option for me because those are just too large

for a pc screen and far more expensive..





Morkeleb

#1
Posted 07/11/2010 04:22 PM   
The 3D Vision Drivers currently work only with 3D DLP TVs ad these require you to use the 3D Vision glasses..

However we are waiting for the 3DTV Play software that should allow us to use the new 3D HDTVs with their own glasses and have the features that are currently available in the 3D Vision Driver.
The 3D Vision Drivers currently work only with 3D DLP TVs ad these require you to use the 3D Vision glasses..



However we are waiting for the 3DTV Play software that should allow us to use the new 3D HDTVs with their own glasses and have the features that are currently available in the 3D Vision Driver.

My 3D Vision Blog - 3dvision-blog.com

#2
Posted 07/11/2010 04:43 PM   
My thoughts. Considering that by definition the LCD glasses spend half of their time off, all glasses must halve the brightness to each eye.

So to evaluate the "differential" loss between this and other glasses, you only need to measure their loss as "sun glasses"....i.e when the glasses are not on. Compared to Optoma DLP link glasses that I have, the nVidia glasses are approx 10% darker. This was measured by using a light meter through the lens at a fixed light source.

So yes, there is a 10% difference....but while that isn't wonderful, it isn't that different either.

I think there is a perceptual difference because the nVidia lenses have a yellow hue to them. Whereas the DLP link glasses are grey (slightly blue in fact). The yellow gives a psychological impression of being a bit muggy. But if the display is calibrated to compensate, then in reality, this disappears.


The only other aspect, would be if the lenses are off longer than 50% (to try and minimise ghosting), but this would be controlled by the emitter and not the glasses. Hopefully they are not doing this, but no change in glasses would affect this.
My thoughts. Considering that by definition the LCD glasses spend half of their time off, all glasses must halve the brightness to each eye.



So to evaluate the "differential" loss between this and other glasses, you only need to measure their loss as "sun glasses"....i.e when the glasses are not on. Compared to Optoma DLP link glasses that I have, the nVidia glasses are approx 10% darker. This was measured by using a light meter through the lens at a fixed light source.



So yes, there is a 10% difference....but while that isn't wonderful, it isn't that different either.



I think there is a perceptual difference because the nVidia lenses have a yellow hue to them. Whereas the DLP link glasses are grey (slightly blue in fact). The yellow gives a psychological impression of being a bit muggy. But if the display is calibrated to compensate, then in reality, this disappears.





The only other aspect, would be if the lenses are off longer than 50% (to try and minimise ghosting), but this would be controlled by the emitter and not the glasses. Hopefully they are not doing this, but no change in glasses would affect this.

#3
Posted 07/12/2010 08:44 AM   
Actually, they are off way longer than 50%.

Check this link: [url="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/nvidia-gf-3d-vision_5.html"]http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedi...d-vision_5.html[/url]
Actually, they are off way longer than 50%.



Check this link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedi...d-vision_5.html

#4
Posted 07/12/2010 09:02 AM   
[quote name='Nick7' post='1086617' date='Jul 12 2010, 10:02 AM']Actually, they are off way longer than 50%.

Check this link: [url="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/nvidia-gf-3d-vision_5.html"]http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedi...d-vision_5.html[/url][/quote]

Interesting. Thanks for the link. But it shows what I said later in my thoughts...that if the glasses are off more than 50% it will be down to the implementation of the transmitter sync/driver implementation and the way it correctly syncs with the monitor, rather than the glasses themselves. It also means any difference in the tint of the LCD lenses themselves has even less impact proportionally.

I don't agree with the report stating that colour is not affected noticeably by the glasses. It is.
[quote name='Nick7' post='1086617' date='Jul 12 2010, 10:02 AM']Actually, they are off way longer than 50%.



Check this link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedi...d-vision_5.html



Interesting. Thanks for the link. But it shows what I said later in my thoughts...that if the glasses are off more than 50% it will be down to the implementation of the transmitter sync/driver implementation and the way it correctly syncs with the monitor, rather than the glasses themselves. It also means any difference in the tint of the LCD lenses themselves has even less impact proportionally.



I don't agree with the report stating that colour is not affected noticeably by the glasses. It is.

#5
Posted 07/12/2010 11:00 AM   
Add the polarizationloss as well: Shutterglasses uses polarizationfilters and liquid crystals. The polarizer reduces the total light to maximum 45% throughput. The samsung and other lcd-monitors already has polarized light and don't suffers from this (probably 80% and + througput).

So: The total formula is: total light*0,45(polarizationloss)*0,5(shared between the eyes)*dutycycle(a trick to reduce ghosting on cost of brightness by reducing the opentime of the shutters)*2. For lcd-monitors you can change the 45% polarizationloss to about 80%. The duty cycle is 50% if no deadtime is used.
Nonethless: Shutterglasses are indeed a pretty dark experience. However the eyes adapts quite well but you need a dimmed room. Especially with a projector setup.
I never regret i went the dual projection route. One pj for each eye, nice filters, passive glasses and a 100" image just as bright as the ordinary lcd-monitor. ;)
Add the polarizationloss as well: Shutterglasses uses polarizationfilters and liquid crystals. The polarizer reduces the total light to maximum 45% throughput. The samsung and other lcd-monitors already has polarized light and don't suffers from this (probably 80% and + througput).



So: The total formula is: total light*0,45(polarizationloss)*0,5(shared between the eyes)*dutycycle(a trick to reduce ghosting on cost of brightness by reducing the opentime of the shutters)*2. For lcd-monitors you can change the 45% polarizationloss to about 80%. The duty cycle is 50% if no deadtime is used.

Nonethless: Shutterglasses are indeed a pretty dark experience. However the eyes adapts quite well but you need a dimmed room. Especially with a projector setup.

I never regret i went the dual projection route. One pj for each eye, nice filters, passive glasses and a 100" image just as bright as the ordinary lcd-monitor. ;)

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#6
Posted 07/12/2010 05:25 PM   
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