[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Grestorn you are wrong, very very wrong, S3D by itself IS PART of the gforce products, your card CAN do S3D without 3dvision nor 3dtvplay.[/quote]
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Is the same situation like, if lets says tomorrow, they dedice to charge 40$ for the full new released drivers set for your grapich card, after all nvidia drivers are better than AMD ones so why no get some bucks from there too?[/quote]
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Mark my words, once S3D leaves the niche market to become mainstream ( if it happens... ) then you will have all this stuff enabled in nvidia cards by default.
[/quote]
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Grestorn you are wrong, very very wrong, S3D by itself IS PART of the gforce products, your card CAN do S3D without 3dvision nor 3dtvplay.
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Is the same situation like, if lets says tomorrow, they dedice to charge 40$ for the full new released drivers set for your grapich card, after all nvidia drivers are better than AMD ones so why no get some bucks from there too?
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Mark my words, once S3D leaves the niche market to become mainstream ( if it happens... ) then you will have all this stuff enabled in nvidia cards by default.
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
[quote name='Zibri' date='30 October 2011 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1319999541' post='1317445']
No problem dude, I'm not a newbie... and I can even just reset the trial.
What I'm saying is that this is really stupid.
Making money on hardware it's ok, but deliberately cripple it is a very bad practice.
To achieve that they also used an "Armadillo" protection scheme, which is:
[b][i]1) flawed and can be circumvented.
2) heavy and invasive (makes a lot of checks for it's own security avoiding programs like debuggers to be run)[/i][/b]
About the last one, let me tell you that if I want to run a debugger I can despite this stupid protection, but without knowledge, no debugger can be present in the system.
Now, I use debuggers and system monitor utilities for work and I find this unacceptable.
And I'm being kind here, since because of my work, it would be really easy for me to crack this program and release it anonymously.
I won't do that, I'm just trying to reason and to make them know this is REALLY a bad practice that will result in very bad PR once 3dtvs will be more adopted.
[/quote]
sounds like every kind of protection out there really?
i like how everyone claims to be able to do X Y Z if only they wanted to but they wont because they're nice. chances are, you're already doing it or lying about your technical expertise.
once 3DTVs are actually priced low enough to flood the mainstream market they will unlock the feature, until then they will just milk the cow since only enthusiasts with high-end rigs spend enough to have a 3D capable setup and like someone else said, whats $40 after spending $1000 in gpus alone?
[quote name='Zibri' date='30 October 2011 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1319999541' post='1317445']
No problem dude, I'm not a newbie... and I can even just reset the trial.
What I'm saying is that this is really stupid.
Making money on hardware it's ok, but deliberately cripple it is a very bad practice.
To achieve that they also used an "Armadillo" protection scheme, which is:
1) flawed and can be circumvented.
2) heavy and invasive (makes a lot of checks for it's own security avoiding programs like debuggers to be run)
About the last one, let me tell you that if I want to run a debugger I can despite this stupid protection, but without knowledge, no debugger can be present in the system.
Now, I use debuggers and system monitor utilities for work and I find this unacceptable.
And I'm being kind here, since because of my work, it would be really easy for me to crack this program and release it anonymously.
I won't do that, I'm just trying to reason and to make them know this is REALLY a bad practice that will result in very bad PR once 3dtvs will be more adopted.
sounds like every kind of protection out there really?
i like how everyone claims to be able to do X Y Z if only they wanted to but they wont because they're nice. chances are, you're already doing it or lying about your technical expertise.
once 3DTVs are actually priced low enough to flood the mainstream market they will unlock the feature, until then they will just milk the cow since only enthusiasts with high-end rigs spend enough to have a 3D capable setup and like someone else said, whats $40 after spending $1000 in gpus alone?
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
3DTV Play is free for owners of a Nvidia emitter, the only catch is it must be plugged in at all times while using the feature. Also, your TV must be on the supported list for it to enable plus you'll need a Nvidia GPU capable of 3D. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
If your TV is not on the list try this http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2774
3DTV Play is free for owners of a Nvidia emitter, the only catch is it must be plugged in at all times while using the feature. Also, your TV must be on the supported list for it to enable plus you'll need a Nvidia GPU capable of 3D. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
[quote name='phabran' date='31 October 2011 - 03:26 PM' timestamp='1320067588' post='1317914']
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
[/quote]
No, you don't have to pay to use a 3DTV, and that's a concience decision made by nVidia (if you've bought 3DVision, 3DTV is free).
So I really don't understand what you're complaining about since you obviously knew that already.
[quote name='phabran' date='31 October 2011 - 03:26 PM' timestamp='1320067588' post='1317914']
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
No, you don't have to pay to use a 3DTV, and that's a concience decision made by nVidia (if you've bought 3DVision, 3DTV is free).
So I really don't understand what you're complaining about since you obviously knew that already.
Guys, the $40 for 3DTV Play is the cost of supporting the feature on non-Nvidia certified hardware. Its not an unreasonable price given this is roughly the same price for the competition's solutions (DDD, iZ3D/AMD HD3D etc.) Simply put, you're paying for Andrew and some of the GeForce driver engineering team's time and salary to continue supporting 3D Vision. Right now 3D Vision is NOT a core technology and selling point for Nvidia, its an add-on feature like Grestorn has stated so the burden of supporting it lies with the pioneering minority that are interested in it. Once it becomes mainstream, they will probably drop the 3DTV Play price because the increase in hardware sales justifies the increase in overhead for 3D Vision support.
For those of you who actually use 3DTV Play, ask yourself if you think that one-time $40 buy-in (or $0 if you already own 3D Vision Kit) is worth it for 3D Vision support if your HDTV doesn't support 3DTV Play out-of-the-box. Each time a new 3DTV hits the market, Nvidia has to add EDID support for it in the drivers, test it, and make sure there are no incompatibilities. That takes time/money and they get no money or Q&A help from the HDTV makers themselves, so the burden falls on the consumer.
Guys, the $40 for 3DTV Play is the cost of supporting the feature on non-Nvidia certified hardware. Its not an unreasonable price given this is roughly the same price for the competition's solutions (DDD, iZ3D/AMD HD3D etc.) Simply put, you're paying for Andrew and some of the GeForce driver engineering team's time and salary to continue supporting 3D Vision. Right now 3D Vision is NOT a core technology and selling point for Nvidia, its an add-on feature like Grestorn has stated so the burden of supporting it lies with the pioneering minority that are interested in it. Once it becomes mainstream, they will probably drop the 3DTV Play price because the increase in hardware sales justifies the increase in overhead for 3D Vision support.
For those of you who actually use 3DTV Play, ask yourself if you think that one-time $40 buy-in (or $0 if you already own 3D Vision Kit) is worth it for 3D Vision support if your HDTV doesn't support 3DTV Play out-of-the-box. Each time a new 3DTV hits the market, Nvidia has to add EDID support for it in the drivers, test it, and make sure there are no incompatibilities. That takes time/money and they get no money or Q&A help from the HDTV makers themselves, so the burden falls on the consumer.
[quote name='Libertine' date='30 October 2011 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1320002069' post='1317478']
I think there has been some immoral marketing really. With 3DTV Play for example, it doesnt say that your limited to 720p. It should of course, wouldnt you tell your family members and friends that before they bought it? Were strangers to them, but is that the world we really want to live in, where its ok to screw people, just a little bit....where [b]everyone[/b], screws each other, a little bit? I honestly dont know how to feel about it since i rate 3d + 720p + 46" greater than 2d + 2560x1600 + 30". But inevitably, people, will go out there an pay for a setup that will do 1080p in 3D when they dont need all that power. They WORKED (in most cases, or their parents did) minute by minute for that money. Nobody should have it wasted. How rich are the Nvidia executives and higher ups? Would the upper, excessive part of their pay that they rake in offset the losses they would incur for being upfront and honest?
[/quote]
Hi
Our knowledge base articles are very upfront and honest about the resolutions that are supported. We do support 1080p24, but the TVs do not support 1080p60 yet. So I think you may misunderstand what capabilities 3D TVs have.
- What modes does 3DTV Play Support: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
- Why do 3D TVs have different modes (720p60/50 and 1080p24) and which one should I use? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2567/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard yet and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
[quote name='Libertine' date='30 October 2011 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1320002069' post='1317478']
I think there has been some immoral marketing really. With 3DTV Play for example, it doesnt say that your limited to 720p. It should of course, wouldnt you tell your family members and friends that before they bought it? Were strangers to them, but is that the world we really want to live in, where its ok to screw people, just a little bit....where everyone, screws each other, a little bit? I honestly dont know how to feel about it since i rate 3d + 720p + 46" greater than 2d + 2560x1600 + 30". But inevitably, people, will go out there an pay for a setup that will do 1080p in 3D when they dont need all that power. They WORKED (in most cases, or their parents did) minute by minute for that money. Nobody should have it wasted. How rich are the Nvidia executives and higher ups? Would the upper, excessive part of their pay that they rake in offset the losses they would incur for being upfront and honest?
Hi
Our knowledge base articles are very upfront and honest about the resolutions that are supported. We do support 1080p24, but the TVs do not support 1080p60 yet. So I think you may misunderstand what capabilities 3D TVs have.
- What modes does 3DTV Play Support: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
- Why do 3D TVs have different modes (720p60/50 and 1080p24) and which one should I use? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2567/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard yet and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
[quote name='reallink' date='30 October 2011 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1320010877' post='1317577']
I've seen folks claim Nvidia demands royalty/licensing fees from CE manufacturers in order to add their devices (Displays, AVR's, FPJ's, ect...) EDID's to 3DTVPlay's whitelist. Not sure how accurate that is, but if true, they're monetizing 3DVision from every different angle. I'm inclined to believe it, because it doesn't seem like peddling a one-time $40 fee would offset the tremendous advantage/incentive that free (extensive) 3D support would be. That would be a great thing to lord over AMD/ATI, far more valuable than the $40 from a relatively niche subset of users.
[/quote]
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
[quote name='reallink' date='30 October 2011 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1320010877' post='1317577']
I've seen folks claim Nvidia demands royalty/licensing fees from CE manufacturers in order to add their devices (Displays, AVR's, FPJ's, ect...) EDID's to 3DTVPlay's whitelist. Not sure how accurate that is, but if true, they're monetizing 3DVision from every different angle. I'm inclined to believe it, because it doesn't seem like peddling a one-time $40 fee would offset the tremendous advantage/incentive that free (extensive) 3D support would be. That would be a great thing to lord over AMD/ATI, far more valuable than the $40 from a relatively niche subset of users.
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
[quote name='phabran' date='31 October 2011 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1320067588' post='1317914']
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
[/quote]
3DTV Play is included free with 3D Vision kits. We have also been very open about that. Please read all of the information online as we list it every chance we get.
3DTV PLAY HOMEPAGE
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html
Read right in the middle, HOW DO I GET 3DTV Play
Activate 3DTV Play on your 3D Vision PC:
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs. Download the latest
Release 265 GeForce Drivers or higher for desktop GPUs and Release 265 or higher Verde Notebooks
drivers for notebook GPUs. (NOTE: the 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software
on your PC.)
KNOWLEDGE BASE ARTICLES
[list]
[*] If I have previously purchased 3D Vision glasses or I have a laptop with 3D Vision built-in, do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play for free? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2579/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[*] How do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2576/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[*] When using 3DTV Play with the 3D Vision USB IR Emitter connected, what color will the lights on the IR emitter be? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2855/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[*] What are the necessary components to use NVIDIA 3DTV Play with a 3D TV? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2549/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[/list]
[quote name='phabran' date='31 October 2011 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1320067588' post='1317914']
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
3DTV Play is included free with 3D Vision kits. We have also been very open about that. Please read all of the information online as we list it every chance we get.
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs. Download the latest
Release 265 GeForce Drivers or higher for desktop GPUs and Release 265 or higher Verde Notebooks
drivers for notebook GPUs. (NOTE: the 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software
on your PC.)
KNOWLEDGE BASE ARTICLES
If I have previously purchased 3D Vision glasses or I have a laptop with 3D Vision built-in, do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play for free? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2579/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
How do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2576/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
When using 3DTV Play with the 3D Vision USB IR Emitter connected, what color will the lights on the IR emitter be? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2855/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
What are the necessary components to use NVIDIA 3DTV Play with a 3D TV? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2549/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='31 October 2011 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1320077990' post='1318005']
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard [b]yet[/b] and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
[/quote]
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='31 October 2011 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1320078142' post='1318009']
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
[/quote]
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='31 October 2011 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1320078142' post='1318009']
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?[/quote]
Not me, the product itself, i think thats very clear.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.[/quote]
See? And in the end you are agree with us, thats is what we are telling here, the cards have it already and they choose to block it and not to block other addons, because they will get more cash from 40$ per purchase than losing it on bad publicity and i already said that is OK to do it, is their company and their products.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
[/quote]
Totally agree there, if people think that the product is subpar then they should buy another one.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?
Not me, the product itself, i think thats very clear.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.
See? And in the end you are agree with us, thats is what we are telling here, the cards have it already and they choose to block it and not to block other addons, because they will get more cash from 40$ per purchase than losing it on bad publicity and i already said that is OK to do it, is their company and their products.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
Totally agree there, if people think that the product is subpar then they should buy another one.
I really don't see the point in this thread and if it were my forum, I'd probably shut it down as unproductive, unnecessary, and tendentious. The mere answer to these questions is blatantly obvious to anyone that knows the need to turn a profit to support and stay in business. Otherwise, they might as well shut 3D support down and forget the whole thing, but they won't since they've been at the cutting edge since day 1.
It takes man hours to support these products, and none of those dollar/hours are going to be reallocated from another support team that is already budgeted for a fiscal cycle and busy supporting another Nvidia department. Cut one sector, you end up cutting another.
3DTV play is a great product and I hope to see it around for many years to come, and I hope to see Andrew successful and keep his job. HIs support of this community and its product has been stellar.
I really don't see the point in this thread and if it were my forum, I'd probably shut it down as unproductive, unnecessary, and tendentious. The mere answer to these questions is blatantly obvious to anyone that knows the need to turn a profit to support and stay in business. Otherwise, they might as well shut 3D support down and forget the whole thing, but they won't since they've been at the cutting edge since day 1.
It takes man hours to support these products, and none of those dollar/hours are going to be reallocated from another support team that is already budgeted for a fiscal cycle and busy supporting another Nvidia department. Cut one sector, you end up cutting another.
3DTV play is a great product and I hope to see it around for many years to come, and I hope to see Andrew successful and keep his job. HIs support of this community and its product has been stellar.
[quote name='reallink' date='31 October 2011 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1320083487' post='1318098']
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
[/quote]
If there are products you need to add, send them our way.
Also, what you are mainly paying for is the game support to covert games into 3D. That's a lot of time and effort by many groups at NVIDIA to get those games working properly.
[quote name='reallink' date='31 October 2011 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1320083487' post='1318098']
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
If there are products you need to add, send them our way.
Also, what you are mainly paying for is the game support to covert games into 3D. That's a lot of time and effort by many groups at NVIDIA to get those games working properly.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='31 October 2011 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1320078356' post='1318014']
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs.
[/quote]
3DTV Play was a downgrade for many of us. We paid for a product, then you removed some of the features and seemed surprised when we complained. I see the one year mark not too far away. Will nVidia refund my money if you haven't repaired your product after one year of us waiting?
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='31 October 2011 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1320078356' post='1318014']
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs.
3DTV Play was a downgrade for many of us. We paid for a product, then you removed some of the features and seemed surprised when we complained. I see the one year mark not too far away. Will nVidia refund my money if you haven't repaired your product after one year of us waiting?
Grestorn you are wrong, very very wrong, S3D by itself IS PART of the gforce products, your card CAN do S3D without 3dvision nor 3dtvplay.[/quote]
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Is the same situation like, if lets says tomorrow, they dedice to charge 40$ for the full new released drivers set for your grapich card, after all nvidia drivers are better than AMD ones so why no get some bucks from there too?[/quote]
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Mark my words, once S3D leaves the niche market to become mainstream ( if it happens... ) then you will have all this stuff enabled in nvidia cards by default.
[/quote]
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
Grestorn you are wrong, very very wrong, S3D by itself IS PART of the gforce products, your card CAN do S3D without 3dvision nor 3dtvplay.
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Is the same situation like, if lets says tomorrow, they dedice to charge 40$ for the full new released drivers set for your grapich card, after all nvidia drivers are better than AMD ones so why no get some bucks from there too?
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.
[quote name='Jude' date='31 October 2011 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1320058373' post='1317860']
Mark my words, once S3D leaves the niche market to become mainstream ( if it happens... ) then you will have all this stuff enabled in nvidia cards by default.
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
No problem dude, I'm not a newbie... and I can even just reset the trial.
What I'm saying is that this is really stupid.
Making money on hardware it's ok, but deliberately cripple it is a very bad practice.
To achieve that they also used an "Armadillo" protection scheme, which is:
[b][i]1) flawed and can be circumvented.
2) heavy and invasive (makes a lot of checks for it's own security avoiding programs like debuggers to be run)[/i][/b]
About the last one, let me tell you that if I want to run a debugger I can despite this stupid protection, but without knowledge, no debugger can be present in the system.
Now, I use debuggers and system monitor utilities for work and I find this unacceptable.
And I'm being kind here, since because of my work, it would be really easy for me to crack this program and release it anonymously.
I won't do that, I'm just trying to reason and to make them know this is REALLY a bad practice that will result in very bad PR once 3dtvs will be more adopted.
[/quote]
sounds like every kind of protection out there really?
i like how everyone claims to be able to do X Y Z if only they wanted to but they wont because they're nice. chances are, you're already doing it or lying about your technical expertise.
once 3DTVs are actually priced low enough to flood the mainstream market they will unlock the feature, until then they will just milk the cow since only enthusiasts with high-end rigs spend enough to have a 3D capable setup and like someone else said, whats $40 after spending $1000 in gpus alone?
No problem dude, I'm not a newbie... and I can even just reset the trial.
What I'm saying is that this is really stupid.
Making money on hardware it's ok, but deliberately cripple it is a very bad practice.
To achieve that they also used an "Armadillo" protection scheme, which is:
1) flawed and can be circumvented.
2) heavy and invasive (makes a lot of checks for it's own security avoiding programs like debuggers to be run)
About the last one, let me tell you that if I want to run a debugger I can despite this stupid protection, but without knowledge, no debugger can be present in the system.
Now, I use debuggers and system monitor utilities for work and I find this unacceptable.
And I'm being kind here, since because of my work, it would be really easy for me to crack this program and release it anonymously.
I won't do that, I'm just trying to reason and to make them know this is REALLY a bad practice that will result in very bad PR once 3dtvs will be more adopted.
sounds like every kind of protection out there really?
i like how everyone claims to be able to do X Y Z if only they wanted to but they wont because they're nice. chances are, you're already doing it or lying about your technical expertise.
once 3DTVs are actually priced low enough to flood the mainstream market they will unlock the feature, until then they will just milk the cow since only enthusiasts with high-end rigs spend enough to have a 3D capable setup and like someone else said, whats $40 after spending $1000 in gpus alone?
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
If your TV is not on the list try this http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2774
If your TV is not on the list try this http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2774
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
[/quote]
No, you don't have to pay to use a 3DTV, and that's a concience decision made by nVidia (if you've bought 3DVision, 3DTV is free).
So I really don't understand what you're complaining about since you obviously knew that already.
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
No, you don't have to pay to use a 3DTV, and that's a concience decision made by nVidia (if you've bought 3DVision, 3DTV is free).
So I really don't understand what you're complaining about since you obviously knew that already.
For those of you who actually use 3DTV Play, ask yourself if you think that one-time $40 buy-in (or $0 if you already own 3D Vision Kit) is worth it for 3D Vision support if your HDTV doesn't support 3DTV Play out-of-the-box. Each time a new 3DTV hits the market, Nvidia has to add EDID support for it in the drivers, test it, and make sure there are no incompatibilities. That takes time/money and they get no money or Q&A help from the HDTV makers themselves, so the burden falls on the consumer.
For those of you who actually use 3DTV Play, ask yourself if you think that one-time $40 buy-in (or $0 if you already own 3D Vision Kit) is worth it for 3D Vision support if your HDTV doesn't support 3DTV Play out-of-the-box. Each time a new 3DTV hits the market, Nvidia has to add EDID support for it in the drivers, test it, and make sure there are no incompatibilities. That takes time/money and they get no money or Q&A help from the HDTV makers themselves, so the burden falls on the consumer.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
I think there has been some immoral marketing really. With 3DTV Play for example, it doesnt say that your limited to 720p. It should of course, wouldnt you tell your family members and friends that before they bought it? Were strangers to them, but is that the world we really want to live in, where its ok to screw people, just a little bit....where [b]everyone[/b], screws each other, a little bit? I honestly dont know how to feel about it since i rate 3d + 720p + 46" greater than 2d + 2560x1600 + 30". But inevitably, people, will go out there an pay for a setup that will do 1080p in 3D when they dont need all that power. They WORKED (in most cases, or their parents did) minute by minute for that money. Nobody should have it wasted. How rich are the Nvidia executives and higher ups? Would the upper, excessive part of their pay that they rake in offset the losses they would incur for being upfront and honest?
[/quote]
Hi
Our knowledge base articles are very upfront and honest about the resolutions that are supported. We do support 1080p24, but the TVs do not support 1080p60 yet. So I think you may misunderstand what capabilities 3D TVs have.
- What modes does 3DTV Play Support: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
- Why do 3D TVs have different modes (720p60/50 and 1080p24) and which one should I use? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2567/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard yet and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
I think there has been some immoral marketing really. With 3DTV Play for example, it doesnt say that your limited to 720p. It should of course, wouldnt you tell your family members and friends that before they bought it? Were strangers to them, but is that the world we really want to live in, where its ok to screw people, just a little bit....where everyone, screws each other, a little bit? I honestly dont know how to feel about it since i rate 3d + 720p + 46" greater than 2d + 2560x1600 + 30". But inevitably, people, will go out there an pay for a setup that will do 1080p in 3D when they dont need all that power. They WORKED (in most cases, or their parents did) minute by minute for that money. Nobody should have it wasted. How rich are the Nvidia executives and higher ups? Would the upper, excessive part of their pay that they rake in offset the losses they would incur for being upfront and honest?
Hi
Our knowledge base articles are very upfront and honest about the resolutions that are supported. We do support 1080p24, but the TVs do not support 1080p60 yet. So I think you may misunderstand what capabilities 3D TVs have.
- What modes does 3DTV Play Support: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
- Why do 3D TVs have different modes (720p60/50 and 1080p24) and which one should I use? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2567/kw/3dtv%20play%20mode/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard yet and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
I've seen folks claim Nvidia demands royalty/licensing fees from CE manufacturers in order to add their devices (Displays, AVR's, FPJ's, ect...) EDID's to 3DTVPlay's whitelist. Not sure how accurate that is, but if true, they're monetizing 3DVision from every different angle. I'm inclined to believe it, because it doesn't seem like peddling a one-time $40 fee would offset the tremendous advantage/incentive that free (extensive) 3D support would be. That would be a great thing to lord over AMD/ATI, far more valuable than the $40 from a relatively niche subset of users.
[/quote]
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
I've seen folks claim Nvidia demands royalty/licensing fees from CE manufacturers in order to add their devices (Displays, AVR's, FPJ's, ect...) EDID's to 3DTVPlay's whitelist. Not sure how accurate that is, but if true, they're monetizing 3DVision from every different angle. I'm inclined to believe it, because it doesn't seem like peddling a one-time $40 fee would offset the tremendous advantage/incentive that free (extensive) 3D support would be. That would be a great thing to lord over AMD/ATI, far more valuable than the $40 from a relatively niche subset of users.
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
[/quote]
3DTV Play is included free with 3D Vision kits. We have also been very open about that. Please read all of the information online as we list it every chance we get.
3DTV PLAY HOMEPAGE
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html
Read right in the middle, HOW DO I GET 3DTV Play
Activate 3DTV Play on your 3D Vision PC:
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs. Download the latest
Release 265 GeForce Drivers or higher for desktop GPUs and Release 265 or higher Verde Notebooks
drivers for notebook GPUs. (NOTE: the 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software
on your PC.)
KNOWLEDGE BASE ARTICLES
[list]
[*] If I have previously purchased 3D Vision glasses or I have a laptop with 3D Vision built-in, do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play for free? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2579/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[*] How do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2576/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[*] When using 3DTV Play with the 3D Vision USB IR Emitter connected, what color will the lights on the IR emitter be? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2855/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[*] What are the necessary components to use NVIDIA 3DTV Play with a 3D TV? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2549/kw/3dtv%20play%203d%20vision/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDA3Nzg5Ni9zaWQvS0o1amJZSGs%3D
[/list]
Well, I have all I need to enable 3D: graphic card, 3D Vision kit, 120Hz monitor etc and I still need to pay extra 40 bucks to have it on my flat 3D TV? Sorry, but I/We can't agree with that. It's a bad practice from nVidia no doubts about it.
In my caso, since I have 3D Vision kit I'm able to enable it, but I don't think it's fair. It has to be part of graphics drivers or at least some reference models.
3DTV Play is included free with 3D Vision kits. We have also been very open about that. Please read all of the information online as we list it every chance we get.
3DTV PLAY HOMEPAGE
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html
Read right in the middle, HOW DO I GET 3DTV Play
Activate 3DTV Play on your 3D Vision PC:
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs. Download the latest
Release 265 GeForce Drivers or higher for desktop GPUs and Release 265 or higher Verde Notebooks
drivers for notebook GPUs. (NOTE: the 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software
on your PC.)
KNOWLEDGE BASE ARTICLES
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard [b]yet[/b] and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
[/quote]
When is that coming by the way?
Also, we do not support 1080p side/side squished modes or checkerboard yet and I have been fairly open about that on the forums.
When is that coming by the way?
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
[/quote]
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
I'll settle this rumor right now.
We charge ZERO dollars for 3DTV Play to any HW manufacturer.
3DTV Play is a software product that does take real engineers to support the features and games we add to it, which is why its a paid for piece of software.
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?[/quote]
Not me, the product itself, i think thats very clear.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.[/quote]
See? And in the end you are agree with us, thats is what we are telling here, the cards have it already and they choose to block it and not to block other addons, because they will get more cash from 40$ per purchase than losing it on bad publicity and i already said that is OK to do it, is their company and their products.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
[/quote]
Totally agree there, if people think that the product is subpar then they should buy another one.
Who's defining what is part of GeForce products? You?
Not me, the product itself, i think thats very clear.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Did you ever see an advertisement that claims that you'd get 3D for free on GeForce cards? So see, however, a lot of ads claiming that the gaming experience is great, that you get PhysX and CUDA etc. on GeForce cards.
S3D was never a part of the product, it's an addon.
See? And in the end you are agree with us, thats is what we are telling here, the cards have it already and they choose to block it and not to block other addons, because they will get more cash from 40$ per purchase than losing it on bad publicity and i already said that is OK to do it, is their company and their products.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='31 October 2011 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1320063442' post='1317887']
Probably, yes. But that doesn't contradict my argument, especially since I hinted at that already.
In any way, there is no reason to flame nVidia for making a business. If you think the product is too expensive, well, you always have the option to not buy it.
Totally agree there, if people think that the product is subpar then they should buy another one.
It takes man hours to support these products, and none of those dollar/hours are going to be reallocated from another support team that is already budgeted for a fiscal cycle and busy supporting another Nvidia department. Cut one sector, you end up cutting another.
3DTV play is a great product and I hope to see it around for many years to come, and I hope to see Andrew successful and keep his job. HIs support of this community and its product has been stellar.
It takes man hours to support these products, and none of those dollar/hours are going to be reallocated from another support team that is already budgeted for a fiscal cycle and busy supporting another Nvidia department. Cut one sector, you end up cutting another.
3DTV play is a great product and I hope to see it around for many years to come, and I hope to see Andrew successful and keep his job. HIs support of this community and its product has been stellar.
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
[/quote]
If there are products you need to add, send them our way.
Also, what you are mainly paying for is the game support to covert games into 3D. That's a lot of time and effort by many groups at NVIDIA to get those games working properly.
Appreciate the clarification Andrew. I can understand paying for profile support, and I'm glad to do it. Perhaps you guys should do more to communicate that, and move away from the notion that we're paying for EDID updates or senseless HW testing/support. Hopefully you understand with paid software comes increased expectations. I think the lack of basic features (e.g. Side-by-Side, Top/Bottom, Checkerboard, etc...)and your heavy handed approach to compatibility (e.g. waiting for display support, locking out functional 1.3 AVR's, etc...) is where much of the ire and resistance comes from. If you guys actually delivered a suite that felt like it was worth $40, there would probably be a lot fewer discussions like this one.
If there are products you need to add, send them our way.
Also, what you are mainly paying for is the game support to covert games into 3D. That's a lot of time and effort by many groups at NVIDIA to get those games working properly.
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs.
[/quote]
3DTV Play was a downgrade for many of us. We paid for a product, then you removed some of the features and seemed surprised when we complained. I see the one year mark not too far away. Will nVidia refund my money if you haven't repaired your product after one year of us waiting?
NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs.
3DTV Play was a downgrade for many of us. We paid for a product, then you removed some of the features and seemed surprised when we complained. I see the one year mark not too far away. Will nVidia refund my money if you haven't repaired your product after one year of us waiting?