Active glasses vs. Passive glasses -share your thoughts
2 / 2
Black (or anyone),
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
[quote name='roller11' date='30 April 2011 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1304195746' post='1232115']
Black (or anyone),
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
[/quote]
The Nvidia stereoscopic drivers can run any 3D display on the planet, it is a single piece of software that powers all Nvidia's stereoscopic solutions.
3D Vision and 3DTV play are end-user products based on the Nvidia stereoscopic drivers, the reason there are two products is the result of Nvidia's market segmentation policy.
3D Vision is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for Nvidia 3D Vision displays.
3DTV play is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for hdmi1.4 displays.
If you have any other 3D display, Nvidia does not want to talk to you directly. If you are a 3D display manufacturer, Nvidia is ready to sign support contracts with you, for example Zalman used to have a support contract with Nvidia (Zalman makes FPR displays just like LG, and I own such a display since 2009). Nvidia used to produce a special version of the stereoscopic drivers for these displays.
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play for example, and if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving which is the native format of these displays, similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
[quote name='roller11' date='30 April 2011 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1304195746' post='1232115']
Black (or anyone),
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
The Nvidia stereoscopic drivers can run any 3D display on the planet, it is a single piece of software that powers all Nvidia's stereoscopic solutions.
3D Vision and 3DTV play are end-user products based on the Nvidia stereoscopic drivers, the reason there are two products is the result of Nvidia's market segmentation policy.
3D Vision is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for Nvidia 3D Vision displays.
3DTV play is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for hdmi1.4 displays.
If you have any other 3D display, Nvidia does not want to talk to you directly. If you are a 3D display manufacturer, Nvidia is ready to sign support contracts with you, for example Zalman used to have a support contract with Nvidia (Zalman makes FPR displays just like LG, and I own such a display since 2009). Nvidia used to produce a special version of the stereoscopic drivers for these displays.
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play for example, and if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving which is the native format of these displays, similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote name='roller11' date='30 April 2011 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1304184517' post='1232067']
Are you using 3DTV Play or 3D Vision? If 3D Vision, what 3D mode? Framepacking? checkerboard? something else?
[/quote]
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
[quote name='roller11' date='30 April 2011 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1304184517' post='1232067']
Are you using 3DTV Play or 3D Vision? If 3D Vision, what 3D mode? Framepacking? checkerboard? something else?
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
[quote name='mocca' date='30 April 2011 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1304200672' post='1232125']
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
[/quote]
Understood. Obviously sbs mode in iZ3D and TriDef is vastly superior to 3DTV Play's framepacking. We're in this position because Nvidia decided to not support the universal standard (for 3D games) side by side. Nice going, Nvidia.
So you've tested SBS with your passive LG and you're getting good results?
[quote name='mocca' date='30 April 2011 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1304200672' post='1232125']
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
Understood. Obviously sbs mode in iZ3D and TriDef is vastly superior to 3DTV Play's framepacking. We're in this position because Nvidia decided to not support the universal standard (for 3D games) side by side. Nice going, Nvidia.
So you've tested SBS with your passive LG and you're getting good results?
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='30 April 2011 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1304198523' post='1232121']
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play[/quote]
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
[quote]if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving .... similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
[/quote]
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='30 April 2011 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1304198523' post='1232121']
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving .... similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
[quote name='roller11' date='01 May 2011 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1304205244' post='1232139']
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
[/quote]
You more or less get the idea.
The only subtle difference is that the display is progressive scan, so there is no first or second refresh like with real interlacing (which also exists in 3D).
There are two ways to make these FPR displays work :
-through standardized formats (hdmi 1.4 frame packing or side by side, etc...) and then the display converts the format into whatever it needs. The display needs to understand the 3D format and have internal processing to do the transformation. That is how LG displays work (according to their manufacturer specs).
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
[quote name='roller11' date='01 May 2011 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1304205244' post='1232139']
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
You more or less get the idea.
The only subtle difference is that the display is progressive scan, so there is no first or second refresh like with real interlacing (which also exists in 3D).
There are two ways to make these FPR displays work :
-through standardized formats (hdmi 1.4 frame packing or side by side, etc...) and then the display converts the format into whatever it needs. The display needs to understand the 3D format and have internal processing to do the transformation. That is how LG displays work (according to their manufacturer specs).
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='30 April 2011 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1304206480' post='1232142']
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
[/quote]
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='30 April 2011 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1304206480' post='1232142']
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
[quote name='3DRobert' date='01 May 2011 - 02:24 AM' timestamp='1304213074' post='1232158']
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
[/quote]
Hi
thanks for testing, the resolution loss i see in checkerboard is due to the images not blending together correctly wich in turn looks like massive amounts of on screen alaising, i think? lol
[quote name='3DRobert' date='01 May 2011 - 02:24 AM' timestamp='1304213074' post='1232158']
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
Hi
thanks for testing, the resolution loss i see in checkerboard is due to the images not blending together correctly wich in turn looks like massive amounts of on screen alaising, i think? lol
Did you try a 3d bluray or test using pc?
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
(I was sooo right, again /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> )
-These Apparently, Exist! "Proof" posted by "Isochroma" on AVSforums:
[quote]In case anyone is wondering, there are other ways to get 3D from an OLED without polarization. Best for pure quality is shutter glasses with frame-sequential L-R-L-R presentation. Since each eye is blocked for half the time though, intensity is half - or OLED output must be doubled to maintain brightness. That can wear OLEDs out quickly - at least for now. The shutter glasses themselves use LCDs in that system, which can introduce flicker and motion smear, though still a vast improvement over an LCD display and LCD shutter glasses.
MEM shutter glasses with an OLED display would be the ultimate quality, but also lose the most light because MEMs have greater occlusion than LCD. But MEMs are the fastest light gates around right now, so they won't produce the flicker or smear that LCD shutter glasses do.
[/quote]
(I was sooo right, again /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> )
-These Apparently, Exist! "Proof" posted by "Isochroma" on AVSforums:
In case anyone is wondering, there are other ways to get 3D from an OLED without polarization. Best for pure quality is shutter glasses with frame-sequential L-R-L-R presentation. Since each eye is blocked for half the time though, intensity is half - or OLED output must be doubled to maintain brightness. That can wear OLEDs out quickly - at least for now. The shutter glasses themselves use LCDs in that system, which can introduce flicker and motion smear, though still a vast improvement over an LCD display and LCD shutter glasses.
MEM shutter glasses with an OLED display would be the ultimate quality, but also lose the most light because MEMs have greater occlusion than LCD. But MEMs are the fastest light gates around right now, so they won't produce the flicker or smear that LCD shutter glasses do.
Isn't that just a theory? Imo the occlusion ("wires" to each memelement and elements themselves) would also cause diffusion. If the memarray is close to the image it'll look shark while making a little distance will cause it getting blurred out.
Isn't that just a theory? Imo the occlusion ("wires" to each memelement and elements themselves) would also cause diffusion. If the memarray is close to the image it'll look shark while making a little distance will cause it getting blurred out.
Mocca, have you tested SBS on your passive display? You should get 1920x1080 resolution per frame just as in checkerboard. I'm wondering if the same bug in CB applies to SBS.
Mocca, have you tested SBS on your passive display? You should get 1920x1080 resolution per frame just as in checkerboard. I'm wondering if the same bug in CB applies to SBS.
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
Black (or anyone),
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
[/quote]
The Nvidia stereoscopic drivers can run any 3D display on the planet, it is a single piece of software that powers all Nvidia's stereoscopic solutions.
3D Vision and 3DTV play are end-user products based on the Nvidia stereoscopic drivers, the reason there are two products is the result of Nvidia's market segmentation policy.
3D Vision is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for Nvidia 3D Vision displays.
3DTV play is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for hdmi1.4 displays.
If you have any other 3D display, Nvidia does not want to talk to you directly. If you are a 3D display manufacturer, Nvidia is ready to sign support contracts with you, for example Zalman used to have a support contract with Nvidia (Zalman makes FPR displays just like LG, and I own such a display since 2009). Nvidia used to produce a special version of the stereoscopic drivers for these displays.
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play for example, and if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving which is the native format of these displays, similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
Black (or anyone),
Can you explain the relevance of 3D Vision or 3DTV Play to a passive system like LG's? Seems to me that these nvidia drivers are designed only for active shutter glasses.
The Nvidia stereoscopic drivers can run any 3D display on the planet, it is a single piece of software that powers all Nvidia's stereoscopic solutions.
3D Vision and 3DTV play are end-user products based on the Nvidia stereoscopic drivers, the reason there are two products is the result of Nvidia's market segmentation policy.
3D Vision is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for Nvidia 3D Vision displays.
3DTV play is a restricted version of the stereoscopic drivers only for hdmi1.4 displays.
If you have any other 3D display, Nvidia does not want to talk to you directly. If you are a 3D display manufacturer, Nvidia is ready to sign support contracts with you, for example Zalman used to have a support contract with Nvidia (Zalman makes FPR displays just like LG, and I own such a display since 2009). Nvidia used to produce a special version of the stereoscopic drivers for these displays.
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play for example, and if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving which is the native format of these displays, similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Are you using 3DTV Play or 3D Vision? If 3D Vision, what 3D mode? Framepacking? checkerboard? something else?
[/quote]
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
Are you using 3DTV Play or 3D Vision? If 3D Vision, what 3D mode? Framepacking? checkerboard? something else?
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
[/quote]
Understood. Obviously sbs mode in iZ3D and TriDef is vastly superior to 3DTV Play's framepacking. We're in this position because Nvidia decided to not support the universal standard (for 3D games) side by side. Nice going, Nvidia.
So you've tested SBS with your passive LG and you're getting good results?
I was using 3dvision checkerboard on the sammy but the lg i have or the setup i have does'nt seem to play checkerboard correctly anymore with the lg set so it's just 3dtvplay now.
So i use Sbs and if the games do'nt work with iz3d or tridef then i use what ever 3dtvplay is outputting.
Understood. Obviously sbs mode in iZ3D and TriDef is vastly superior to 3DTV Play's framepacking. We're in this position because Nvidia decided to not support the universal standard (for 3D games) side by side. Nice going, Nvidia.
So you've tested SBS with your passive LG and you're getting good results?
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play[/quote]
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
[quote]if there is enough demand, we could ask Nvidia to support line interleaving .... similar to how people currently ask Nvidia to support checkerboard.
[/quote]
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
At the moment you can use LG's displays with 3DTV play
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
[/quote]
You more or less get the idea.
The only subtle difference is that the display is progressive scan, so there is no first or second refresh like with real interlacing (which also exists in 3D).
There are two ways to make these FPR displays work :
-through standardized formats (hdmi 1.4 frame packing or side by side, etc...) and then the display converts the format into whatever it needs. The display needs to understand the 3D format and have internal processing to do the transformation. That is how LG displays work (according to their manufacturer specs).
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
As I understand passive displays, it interleaves the scan lines and has full rez horizontally. That is, L eye image would display scan lines 0,2 4,...1078, this would happen on the first vertical refresh. The next vertical refresh would be R eye image scan lines 1,3,5....1079, and so on alternating LRLR... each scan line would have the full 1920 pixels. If this is correct, then I don't see how any mode other than line interleaved could work. Also, mocca said that checkerboard didn't work on his passive LG.
LOL! Yeah, and we have all seen how responsive Nvidia is to user requests! Checkerboard is not even a new mode, and yet it isn't accessible in 3DTV Play despite 289,000 requests.
You more or less get the idea.
The only subtle difference is that the display is progressive scan, so there is no first or second refresh like with real interlacing (which also exists in 3D).
There are two ways to make these FPR displays work :
-through standardized formats (hdmi 1.4 frame packing or side by side, etc...) and then the display converts the format into whatever it needs. The display needs to understand the 3D format and have internal processing to do the transformation. That is how LG displays work (according to their manufacturer specs).
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
[/quote]
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
-through native transmission : the computer prepares the interleaved pattern at the display's native resolution : the display does not need to know it's receiving 3D, it does not need any processing, the display shows a 2D picture and it just happens that the interleaved pattern matches line by line, pixel for pixel the film patterned retarder that creates the separate left and right pictures. That is how Zalman monitors work, they need to be fed interleaved pictures. You can also run the LG displays with this technique.
About checkerboard : if there were 289.000 users requesting for checkerboard, Nvidia would do something about it because too many people would be switching for iZ3D/DDD and AMD GPUs. The problem here is that there are only a few people asking for it and that the issue is not known outside the hardcore 3D enthusiast community, so there is only very little pressure on Nvidia to implement it.
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
[/quote]
Hi
thanks for testing, the resolution loss i see in checkerboard is due to the images not blending together correctly wich in turn looks like massive amounts of on screen alaising, i think? lol
Did you try a 3d bluray or test using pc?
I wrote a pictureviewer for a Zalman(passive) system based on DirectX, cause the easy handling of shader-code.
The shader for the 3D output are just a couple of lines. I know that there is mutch more todo! Windowed mode it works nearly out of the box, because the passive system don't care about windowed or not or which frequence you use.
It's only neccessary to keep the native resolution.
SBS - is no good solution for those systems because you lost additional the half vertical rows.
top/down - is perfect because you 'only' send a full-hd image to the display and the image-lines will be sorted to the correct display-line and this with 60Hz.
Further your GPU has the half fillrate to render for backbuffer and maybe posteffects, compared to active systems.
And the most work seems to be done, because zalman systems works fine with nVidia drivers.
I finaly tested it mocca.
checkerboard - seems to be buggy on a LG 47LD950. I can confirm that the LR-chanels colors are mixed. Maybe it's a problem caused by the LG firmware. And this method has also further resolution loss for passive systems.
Hi
thanks for testing, the resolution loss i see in checkerboard is due to the images not blending together correctly wich in turn looks like massive amounts of on screen alaising, i think? lol
Did you try a 3d bluray or test using pc?
Gigabyte x99 gaming 5p Intel 5930k 16gb Kingston Fury Sli Kfa Hof 980ti 500gb Samsung Evo Ssd Corsair hx v2 850w HafX Case + Full set of Demciflex filters Sony 8505 4k 3d
(I was sooo right, again
-These Apparently, Exist! "Proof" posted by "Isochroma" on AVSforums:
[quote]In case anyone is wondering, there are other ways to get 3D from an OLED without polarization. Best for pure quality is shutter glasses with frame-sequential L-R-L-R presentation. Since each eye is blocked for half the time though, intensity is half - or OLED output must be doubled to maintain brightness. That can wear OLEDs out quickly - at least for now. The shutter glasses themselves use LCDs in that system, which can introduce flicker and motion smear, though still a vast improvement over an LCD display and LCD shutter glasses.
MEM shutter glasses with an OLED display would be the ultimate quality, but also lose the most light because MEMs have greater occlusion than LCD. But MEMs are the fastest light gates around right now, so they won't produce the flicker or smear that LCD shutter glasses do.
[/quote]
ohhh
(I was sooo right, again
-These Apparently, Exist! "Proof" posted by "Isochroma" on AVSforums:
ohhh
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
*Tracking down*
*Tracking down*