Bioshock 2 Review in S-3D
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This is one of the reasons I'm glad to own the Zalman 22" Polarised Monitor (Which is cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses!)

I can use TriDef DDD or iz3D as well as the 3D Vision Driver.
This is one of the reasons I'm glad to own the Zalman 22" Polarised Monitor (Which is cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses!)



I can use TriDef DDD or iz3D as well as the 3D Vision Driver.

#16
Posted 03/10/2010 04:26 PM   
[quote name='Siberian_Khatru' post='1016642' date='Mar 9 2010, 10:11 PM']Hey red. I will buy your GTX 295.[/quote]

Sorry buddy, but after my rant I've cooled off a bit, and decided to hold out for a few. I priced out ATI cards and I'm the type that is only happy with the best, which for a good 5970 is around $700 right now. If the top of the line fermi actually [u]can[/u] compete with this card then the price wars will begin, and this will be my time to make a move, or if I really feel crazy dare I say upgrade to a new nvidia? Either way in a month or two from now things are really going to begin to shake up, and I'm intrigued as to where the cards are going to fall. :huh:
[quote name='Siberian_Khatru' post='1016642' date='Mar 9 2010, 10:11 PM']Hey red. I will buy your GTX 295.



Sorry buddy, but after my rant I've cooled off a bit, and decided to hold out for a few. I priced out ATI cards and I'm the type that is only happy with the best, which for a good 5970 is around $700 right now. If the top of the line fermi actually can compete with this card then the price wars will begin, and this will be my time to make a move, or if I really feel crazy dare I say upgrade to a new nvidia? Either way in a month or two from now things are really going to begin to shake up, and I'm intrigued as to where the cards are going to fall. :huh:

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#17
Posted 03/10/2010 09:13 PM   
Hi Guys,

It wasn't my intention to drag NVIDIA over the coals with this review. I think NVIDIA is doing a great job of drawing attention to stereoscopic 3D, and getting some game developer involvement. In many cases, NVIDIA comes out ahead too - it's not all one sided.

What I was trying to convey is that game developers need to cast a wider net and treat S-3D gaming as an industry, rather than a single product. Yes, I think it's weird to promote a game that's not quite S-3D ready as being well optimized ahead of time. Hoewever, I think the bigger responsibility is on the game developer here. This isn't a black and white issue, and it would be a shame if people returned 3D kits based on a single game review. Especially when future patches and updates could very well solve these issues. You have to see the problems before coming up with the solutions, right?

Regards,
Chopper
Hi Guys,



It wasn't my intention to drag NVIDIA over the coals with this review. I think NVIDIA is doing a great job of drawing attention to stereoscopic 3D, and getting some game developer involvement. In many cases, NVIDIA comes out ahead too - it's not all one sided.



What I was trying to convey is that game developers need to cast a wider net and treat S-3D gaming as an industry, rather than a single product. Yes, I think it's weird to promote a game that's not quite S-3D ready as being well optimized ahead of time. Hoewever, I think the bigger responsibility is on the game developer here. This isn't a black and white issue, and it would be a shame if people returned 3D kits based on a single game review. Especially when future patches and updates could very well solve these issues. You have to see the problems before coming up with the solutions, right?



Regards,

Chopper

#18
Posted 03/11/2010 12:09 AM   
It's cool. I just want to SLI my rig before I move into a house and Gtx 295's are so darn expensive now. More expensive now than when I bought mine a year ago!
It's cool. I just want to SLI my rig before I move into a house and Gtx 295's are so darn expensive now. More expensive now than when I bought mine a year ago!

4770k @ 4.2 Water cooled
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ASUS 27 inch 3D monitor 3D vision 2.

#19
Posted 03/11/2010 12:24 AM   
[quote name='Chopper' post='1017182' date='Mar 10 2010, 04:09 PM']Hi Guys,

It wasn't my intention to drag NVIDIA over the coals with this review. I think NVIDIA is doing a great job of drawing attention to stereoscopic 3D, and getting some game developer involvement. In many cases, NVIDIA comes out ahead too - it's not all one sided.

What I was trying to convey is that game developers need to cast a wider net and treat S-3D gaming as an industry, rather than a single product. Yes, I think it's weird to promote a game that's not quite S-3D ready as being well optimized ahead of time. However, I think the bigger responsibility is on the game developer here. This isn't a black and white issue, and it would be a shame if people returned 3D kits based on a single game review. Especially when future patches and updates could very well solve these issues. You have to see the problems before coming up with the solutions, right?

Regards,
Chopper[/quote]

I think we know that you weren't trying to give nvidia the finger or anything. It really all boils down to this being a prime example of nvidia's shift from proper support with drivers and developer relationships, to what appears to me to be flashy, quick handed marketing. Unfortunately this is a growing/established trend in the technology world. Everyone wants to edge out their competition, but I feel that to many companies believe that advertising and marketing will generate better sales then quality product (which sadly does have some truth to it).

P.s. Anyone seen Andrew on these forums lately? My abandonment issues are beginning to seep back in :wacko:
[quote name='Chopper' post='1017182' date='Mar 10 2010, 04:09 PM']Hi Guys,



It wasn't my intention to drag NVIDIA over the coals with this review. I think NVIDIA is doing a great job of drawing attention to stereoscopic 3D, and getting some game developer involvement. In many cases, NVIDIA comes out ahead too - it's not all one sided.



What I was trying to convey is that game developers need to cast a wider net and treat S-3D gaming as an industry, rather than a single product. Yes, I think it's weird to promote a game that's not quite S-3D ready as being well optimized ahead of time. However, I think the bigger responsibility is on the game developer here. This isn't a black and white issue, and it would be a shame if people returned 3D kits based on a single game review. Especially when future patches and updates could very well solve these issues. You have to see the problems before coming up with the solutions, right?



Regards,

Chopper



I think we know that you weren't trying to give nvidia the finger or anything. It really all boils down to this being a prime example of nvidia's shift from proper support with drivers and developer relationships, to what appears to me to be flashy, quick handed marketing. Unfortunately this is a growing/established trend in the technology world. Everyone wants to edge out their competition, but I feel that to many companies believe that advertising and marketing will generate better sales then quality product (which sadly does have some truth to it).



P.s. Anyone seen Andrew on these forums lately? My abandonment issues are beginning to seep back in :wacko:

Asus Maximus Hero VII
i7 4790k @ 4.8ghz
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16gb Gskill @ 2400mhz
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Custom water loop
un78hu9000 with 3dplay on checkerboard 1080p

#20
Posted 03/11/2010 10:41 PM   
Bioshock 2 was released a long time ago. A long...time ago. Well over a month ago. Its been so long in fact, that other releases have drawn attention away from the fact that, this product still does not do its intended function...people have sort of given up on it tbh. No news, no reasurrance, just fails. And tumbleweed!! /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' />

I reckon we are bending over and taking it. And whats more, is we haven't even heard a peep about it right?
Bioshock 2 was released a long time ago. A long...time ago. Well over a month ago. Its been so long in fact, that other releases have drawn attention away from the fact that, this product still does not do its intended function...people have sort of given up on it tbh. No news, no reasurrance, just fails. And tumbleweed!! /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' />



I reckon we are bending over and taking it. And whats more, is we haven't even heard a peep about it right?

#21
Posted 03/14/2010 02:05 AM   
I really hope we get some news this week about a patch for bioshock 2. One thing that worries me though, after hearing others say that the original Bioshock was really good in 3d I bought it of steam to replay it in anticipation for #2, but it sucks. Its just as bad as #2. The only way I can play it is at minimum depth otherwise everything begins to double (I dont really understand why). And once again there is a lovely 2d crosshair stuck in the middle of the screen. Shadows are not great either, but Bioshock without shadows would simply be a disgrace.

I dont think #2 will ever be terrific in 3d vision and that is a shame...a damn shame. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />
I really hope we get some news this week about a patch for bioshock 2. One thing that worries me though, after hearing others say that the original Bioshock was really good in 3d I bought it of steam to replay it in anticipation for #2, but it sucks. Its just as bad as #2. The only way I can play it is at minimum depth otherwise everything begins to double (I dont really understand why). And once again there is a lovely 2d crosshair stuck in the middle of the screen. Shadows are not great either, but Bioshock without shadows would simply be a disgrace.



I dont think #2 will ever be terrific in 3d vision and that is a shame...a damn shame. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />

Asus Maximus Hero VII
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Custom water loop
un78hu9000 with 3dplay on checkerboard 1080p

#22
Posted 03/15/2010 04:50 AM   
Chopper: at what depth did you guys review Bioshock 2? I gave up on a patch and started playing, but at anything above minimum depth (which I refuse to play at) I get bad ghosting off in the distance and if I adjust convergence with 80% depth to the point where the distance ghosting disappears then everything is to far out of the screen towards me. This causes dynamic shadows to ghost, reflections to be rendered at wrong depth ghost, items doubling up close (objective arrow as well), and the outside buildings to ghost.
Chopper: at what depth did you guys review Bioshock 2? I gave up on a patch and started playing, but at anything above minimum depth (which I refuse to play at) I get bad ghosting off in the distance and if I adjust convergence with 80% depth to the point where the distance ghosting disappears then everything is to far out of the screen towards me. This causes dynamic shadows to ghost, reflections to be rendered at wrong depth ghost, items doubling up close (objective arrow as well), and the outside buildings to ghost.

Asus Maximus Hero VII
i7 4790k @ 4.8ghz
SLI MSI Gaming 980 @ 1.5ghz
16gb Gskill @ 2400mhz
2x Samsung 840 500gb
Corsair HX1000i
Custom water loop
un78hu9000 with 3dplay on checkerboard 1080p

#23
Posted 03/17/2010 04:57 AM   
[quote name='redcubelilj' post='1020904' date='Mar 17 2010, 12:57 AM']Chopper: at what depth did you guys review Bioshock 2? I gave up on a patch and started playing, but at anything above minimum depth (which I refuse to play at) I get bad ghosting off in the distance and if I adjust convergence with 80% depth to the point where the distance ghosting disappears then everything is to far out of the screen towards me. This causes dynamic shadows to ghost, reflections to be rendered at wrong depth ghost, items doubling up close (objective arrow as well), and the outside buildings to ghost.[/quote]


Ghosting and anomalies are two different things. Ghosting means the images are rendered properly, but there is cross-talk. Anomalies are visual errors that can be mistaken for ghosting, or create visual flaws, etc.

If you are talking about ghosting, I can't help you there. That's a hardware review. If there are visual anomalies or flaws, then you need to share some side by side screenshots so we can see where the errors are and what your expectations are.

Regards,
Chopper
[quote name='redcubelilj' post='1020904' date='Mar 17 2010, 12:57 AM']Chopper: at what depth did you guys review Bioshock 2? I gave up on a patch and started playing, but at anything above minimum depth (which I refuse to play at) I get bad ghosting off in the distance and if I adjust convergence with 80% depth to the point where the distance ghosting disappears then everything is to far out of the screen towards me. This causes dynamic shadows to ghost, reflections to be rendered at wrong depth ghost, items doubling up close (objective arrow as well), and the outside buildings to ghost.





Ghosting and anomalies are two different things. Ghosting means the images are rendered properly, but there is cross-talk. Anomalies are visual errors that can be mistaken for ghosting, or create visual flaws, etc.



If you are talking about ghosting, I can't help you there. That's a hardware review. If there are visual anomalies or flaws, then you need to share some side by side screenshots so we can see where the errors are and what your expectations are.



Regards,

Chopper

#24
Posted 03/17/2010 06:04 AM   
i dont think BS2 is as bad as people are making out. its about the same as BS1, which was great in 3d, you have a lot of freedom to tweak the convergence and depth.
its not perfect, but not much is.

in metro2033 you cant get any real pop-out, so its a bit behind BS2 in my 3d enjoyment list. the 3d shadows are nice, but i like the gun coming OUT of the screen.
i dont think BS2 is as bad as people are making out. its about the same as BS1, which was great in 3d, you have a lot of freedom to tweak the convergence and depth.

its not perfect, but not much is.



in metro2033 you cant get any real pop-out, so its a bit behind BS2 in my 3d enjoyment list. the 3d shadows are nice, but i like the gun coming OUT of the screen.

Et in Arcadia Ego

#25
Posted 03/17/2010 07:08 AM   
[quote name='templarwiz' post='1020940' date='Mar 17 2010, 07:08 AM']i dont think BS2 is as bad as people are making out. its about the same as BS1, which was great in 3d, you have a lot of freedom to tweak the convergence and depth.
its not perfect, but not much is.

in metro2033 you cant get any real pop-out, so its a bit behind BS2 in my 3d enjoyment list. the 3d shadows are nice, but i like the gun coming OUT of the screen.[/quote]

Each to their own and all that but I think FPS should be all about looking into the screen not popping out of it. I find the gun doubles in FPS with popout (as you would expect it too) and it hurts my eyes.

Also I cant play BS1 simply because you cant disable the cross hair. I understand that you can tweak the crosshair to move it to middle depth by considerable lowering depth and uping the convergence but that's pretty grim and desperate if you ask me...

Andrew
[quote name='templarwiz' post='1020940' date='Mar 17 2010, 07:08 AM']i dont think BS2 is as bad as people are making out. its about the same as BS1, which was great in 3d, you have a lot of freedom to tweak the convergence and depth.

its not perfect, but not much is.



in metro2033 you cant get any real pop-out, so its a bit behind BS2 in my 3d enjoyment list. the 3d shadows are nice, but i like the gun coming OUT of the screen.



Each to their own and all that but I think FPS should be all about looking into the screen not popping out of it. I find the gun doubles in FPS with popout (as you would expect it too) and it hurts my eyes.



Also I cant play BS1 simply because you cant disable the cross hair. I understand that you can tweak the crosshair to move it to middle depth by considerable lowering depth and uping the convergence but that's pretty grim and desperate if you ask me...



Andrew

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#26
Posted 03/17/2010 11:56 AM   
Chopper- for some reason it will not let me take a screenshot in game. And maybe ghosting is not the right term for what I was trying to describe, I think doubling is a better descriptor.

But since updating to the newest beta driver released tonight I have realized that nvidia actually got a few things fixed! The crosshair now moves dynamically away and towards you depending on what you're aiming at (I thought it was glitching at first), and the outside city no longer looks strange (possibly rendered at wrong depth) as it did before. Looking out the windows is clear as day...err ocean.

I still get the doubling effect of objects off in the distance with 85% depth and pop-out-less convergence. But I dont mind having things further out towards the screen, and the only weapon that doubles when using the sights is the 50-cal.
Chopper- for some reason it will not let me take a screenshot in game. And maybe ghosting is not the right term for what I was trying to describe, I think doubling is a better descriptor.



But since updating to the newest beta driver released tonight I have realized that nvidia actually got a few things fixed! The crosshair now moves dynamically away and towards you depending on what you're aiming at (I thought it was glitching at first), and the outside city no longer looks strange (possibly rendered at wrong depth) as it did before. Looking out the windows is clear as day...err ocean.



I still get the doubling effect of objects off in the distance with 85% depth and pop-out-less convergence. But I dont mind having things further out towards the screen, and the only weapon that doubles when using the sights is the 50-cal.

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SLI MSI Gaming 980 @ 1.5ghz
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2x Samsung 840 500gb
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Custom water loop
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#27
Posted 03/17/2010 01:02 PM   
[quote name='redcubelilj' post='1021105' date='Mar 17 2010, 07:02 AM']Chopper- for some reason it will not let me take a screenshot in game. And maybe ghosting is not the right term for what I was trying to describe, I think doubling is a better descriptor.

But since updating to the newest beta driver released tonight I have realized that nvidia actually got a few things fixed! The crosshair now moves dynamically away and towards you depending on what you're aiming at (I thought it was glitching at first), and the outside city no longer looks strange (possibly rendered at wrong depth) as it did before. Looking out the windows is clear as day...err ocean.

I still get the doubling effect of objects off in the distance with 85% depth and pop-out-less convergence. But I dont mind having things further out towards the screen, and the only weapon that doubles when using the sights is the 50-cal.[/quote]

I can confer that the crosshair now works and the game looks a lot better. I can now finally play the game!
[quote name='redcubelilj' post='1021105' date='Mar 17 2010, 07:02 AM']Chopper- for some reason it will not let me take a screenshot in game. And maybe ghosting is not the right term for what I was trying to describe, I think doubling is a better descriptor.



But since updating to the newest beta driver released tonight I have realized that nvidia actually got a few things fixed! The crosshair now moves dynamically away and towards you depending on what you're aiming at (I thought it was glitching at first), and the outside city no longer looks strange (possibly rendered at wrong depth) as it did before. Looking out the windows is clear as day...err ocean.



I still get the doubling effect of objects off in the distance with 85% depth and pop-out-less convergence. But I dont mind having things further out towards the screen, and the only weapon that doubles when using the sights is the 50-cal.



I can confer that the crosshair now works and the game looks a lot better. I can now finally play the game!

#28
Posted 03/17/2010 02:36 PM   
Character shadows are still funky for me. If I close each eye I can tell that they are being rendered fairly wide apart...To far apparently.
Character shadows are still funky for me. If I close each eye I can tell that they are being rendered fairly wide apart...To far apparently.

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i7 4790k @ 4.8ghz
SLI MSI Gaming 980 @ 1.5ghz
16gb Gskill @ 2400mhz
2x Samsung 840 500gb
Corsair HX1000i
Custom water loop
un78hu9000 with 3dplay on checkerboard 1080p

#29
Posted 03/18/2010 07:15 AM   
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