Ok, well, I can say 100% that Bo3b results are significantly better then my Asus VG27. DLP seems to be pretty much crosstalk free in normal conditions, with mild crosstalk in the uber extreme conditions. I wonder if Nvidia will ever make a pair of glasses with curved LCD that blocks out all light from all directions? Curved OLED screens are already being demoed (CES etc), so the tech must exist, even if its not ready for mainstream yet.
Ok, well, I can say 100% that Bo3b results are significantly better then my Asus VG27. DLP seems to be pretty much crosstalk free in normal conditions, with mild crosstalk in the uber extreme conditions. I wonder if Nvidia will ever make a pair of glasses with curved LCD that blocks out all light from all directions? Curved OLED screens are already being demoed (CES etc), so the tech must exist, even if its not ready for mainstream yet.
DLP is flawless, so it's true that ghosting is up to the LCD shutter glasses. If someday the perfect active shutter glasses are made, they should work flawlessly with even the oldest DLP 3D TVs/projectors. So while it's true that you can get ghosting even with DLP, I think that misses the point that you can't get it any better than with DLP.
Personally I never saw any ghosting until I upgraded to a 2.6 gain screen for my DLP Acer5360BD. Only then did I notice some ghosting out of the very top or bottom of the glasses in very high contrast areas. High brightness combined with a wide field of view (I sit very close) revealed the flaws in my DLP-link glasses. I'd be happy to get better glasses, but I've tested two other brands and what I have appears to be the best available now. Infrequent ghosting is a small price for the brightness and FOV I enjoy.
DLP is flawless, so it's true that ghosting is up to the LCD shutter glasses. If someday the perfect active shutter glasses are made, they should work flawlessly with even the oldest DLP 3D TVs/projectors. So while it's true that you can get ghosting even with DLP, I think that misses the point that you can't get it any better than with DLP.
Personally I never saw any ghosting until I upgraded to a 2.6 gain screen for my DLP Acer5360BD. Only then did I notice some ghosting out of the very top or bottom of the glasses in very high contrast areas. High brightness combined with a wide field of view (I sit very close) revealed the flaws in my DLP-link glasses. I'd be happy to get better glasses, but I've tested two other brands and what I have appears to be the best available now. Infrequent ghosting is a small price for the brightness and FOV I enjoy.
[quote="Airion"]
Personally I never saw any ghosting until I upgraded to a 2.6 gain screen for my DLP Acer5360BD. Only then did I notice some ghosting out of the very top or bottom of the glasses in very high contrast areas. High brightness combined with a wide field of view (I sit very close) revealed the flaws in my DLP-link glasses. I'd be happy to get better glasses, but I've tested two other brands and what I have appears to be the best available now. Infrequent ghosting is a small price for the brightness and FOV I enjoy.[/quote]
Airion, when you use that high gain screen, doesn't it actually get [i]too[/i] bright?
When I use the H5360 in Eco mode, glasses on, on flat white paint wall (gain 1.0), it's still bright enough to adjust in game to proper bright/dark.
Just curious how that adjustment looks for you in high-gain case, and what I might be missing.
Airion said:
Personally I never saw any ghosting until I upgraded to a 2.6 gain screen for my DLP Acer5360BD. Only then did I notice some ghosting out of the very top or bottom of the glasses in very high contrast areas. High brightness combined with a wide field of view (I sit very close) revealed the flaws in my DLP-link glasses. I'd be happy to get better glasses, but I've tested two other brands and what I have appears to be the best available now. Infrequent ghosting is a small price for the brightness and FOV I enjoy.
Airion, when you use that high gain screen, doesn't it actually get too bright?
When I use the H5360 in Eco mode, glasses on, on flat white paint wall (gain 1.0), it's still bright enough to adjust in game to proper bright/dark.
Just curious how that adjustment looks for you in high-gain case, and what I might be missing.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I originally used my H5360BD in eco mode on a flat white wall at 90". I felt the image wasn't bad, but maybe could be better with a high gain screen. After wavering for awhile, I decided to get a high gain screen, and the improvement blew me away. I never would have chosen the 1.0 gain screen over the 2.5 high gain if I could have seen the two side by side.
By the numbers, assuming 2.0 gain from my seating area, 670 lumens in 3D mode, and 70% light loss from the glasses, I get around 20 foot lamberts, somewhere between the cinema industry standard of 14fL and what you'd typically get with a TV.
I'd have to look into it but there might be a difference between the H5360BD in DLP-link mode and the H5360 when using the 3D Vision emitter. In DLP-link mode, the H5360BD doesn't use a few segments of the color wheel (or rather, uses them to emit the DLP-link flash), lowering the brightness (technically, white brightness) vs 2D mode.
I originally used my H5360BD in eco mode on a flat white wall at 90". I felt the image wasn't bad, but maybe could be better with a high gain screen. After wavering for awhile, I decided to get a high gain screen, and the improvement blew me away. I never would have chosen the 1.0 gain screen over the 2.5 high gain if I could have seen the two side by side.
By the numbers, assuming 2.0 gain from my seating area, 670 lumens in 3D mode, and 70% light loss from the glasses, I get around 20 foot lamberts, somewhere between the cinema industry standard of 14fL and what you'd typically get with a TV.
I'd have to look into it but there might be a difference between the H5360BD in DLP-link mode and the H5360 when using the 3D Vision emitter. In DLP-link mode, the H5360BD doesn't use a few segments of the color wheel (or rather, uses them to emit the DLP-link flash), lowering the brightness (technically, white brightness) vs 2D mode.
afaik light loss from active glasses is actually more like 90 %.
NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal), Intel Core i7-6900K, Win 10 Pro,
ASUS ROG Rampage V Edition 10, G.Skill RipJaws V 4x 8GB DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34,
ASUS ROG Swift PG258Q, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q, Acer Predator XB280HK, BenQ W710ST
Here's a good calculator for screen brightness:
[url]http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/[/url]
The math is professional but the presets are amateur, taken from reviews, and might or might not be accurate.
Here's where I got my 3D mode 670 lumen number from (and I was wrong, it's 698), on the second page of this H5360 review:
[url]http://www.projectorcentral.com/Acer_H5360_home_theater_projector_review.htm?page=Additional-Advantages[/url]
Notice the calculator above doesn't account for this lower 3D mode number. Also, the review says the brightness is the same in DLP link or Nvidia 3D mode.
Notice the calculator above doesn't account for this lower 3D mode number. Also, the review says the brightness is the same in DLP link or Nvidia 3D mode.
[quote="Kingping1"]afaik light loss from active glasses is actually more like 90 %.[/quote]
It depends on the brand and the glasses. Also some glasses are adjustable, allowing you to increase the time the shutters are closed which can help block ghosting. I'm sure 90% is possible, but I think it's pretty extreme.
Kingping1 said:afaik light loss from active glasses is actually more like 90 %.
It depends on the brand and the glasses. Also some glasses are adjustable, allowing you to increase the time the shutters are closed which can help block ghosting. I'm sure 90% is possible, but I think it's pretty extreme.
[quote="Airion"]I originally used my H5360BD in eco mode on a flat white wall at 90". I felt the image wasn't bad, but maybe could be better with a high gain screen. After wavering for awhile, I decided to get a high gain screen, and the improvement blew me away. I never would have chosen the 1.0 gain screen over the 2.5 high gain if I could have seen the two side by side.
By the numbers, assuming 2.0 gain from my seating area, 670 lumens in 3D mode, and 70% light loss from the glasses, I get around 20 foot lamberts, somewhere between the cinema industry standard of 14fL and what you'd typically get with a TV.
I'd have to look into it but there might be a difference between the H5360BD in DLP-link mode and the H5360 when using the 3D Vision emitter. In DLP-link mode, the H5360BD doesn't use a few segments of the color wheel (or rather, uses them to emit the DLP-link flash), lowering the brightness (technically, white brightness) vs 2D mode.[/quote]
Thanks for the info! It sounds like I definitely have to at least try out a high-gain screen. I'm always up for making the experience as good as it can be.
[quote="Kingping1"]afaik light loss from active glasses is actually more like 90 %.[/quote]
That seems too high. For NVidia glasses in particular, I think this image is a good test case. The camera has a shutter speed that allows for a moderately OK picture, and you can see how bright the lines are outside of the glasses, then inside the glasses. There is no way that is 90%. I would put it at maybe half as bright.
In any case, I would say that even minus a high-gain screen it is playable.
[img]http://bo3b.net/ghost/glasses.JPG[/img]
Airion said:I originally used my H5360BD in eco mode on a flat white wall at 90". I felt the image wasn't bad, but maybe could be better with a high gain screen. After wavering for awhile, I decided to get a high gain screen, and the improvement blew me away. I never would have chosen the 1.0 gain screen over the 2.5 high gain if I could have seen the two side by side.
By the numbers, assuming 2.0 gain from my seating area, 670 lumens in 3D mode, and 70% light loss from the glasses, I get around 20 foot lamberts, somewhere between the cinema industry standard of 14fL and what you'd typically get with a TV.
I'd have to look into it but there might be a difference between the H5360BD in DLP-link mode and the H5360 when using the 3D Vision emitter. In DLP-link mode, the H5360BD doesn't use a few segments of the color wheel (or rather, uses them to emit the DLP-link flash), lowering the brightness (technically, white brightness) vs 2D mode.
Thanks for the info! It sounds like I definitely have to at least try out a high-gain screen. I'm always up for making the experience as good as it can be.
Kingping1 said:afaik light loss from active glasses is actually more like 90 %.
That seems too high. For NVidia glasses in particular, I think this image is a good test case. The camera has a shutter speed that allows for a moderately OK picture, and you can see how bright the lines are outside of the glasses, then inside the glasses. There is no way that is 90%. I would put it at maybe half as bright.
In any case, I would say that even minus a high-gain screen it is playable.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
Personally I never saw any ghosting until I upgraded to a 2.6 gain screen for my DLP Acer5360BD. Only then did I notice some ghosting out of the very top or bottom of the glasses in very high contrast areas. High brightness combined with a wide field of view (I sit very close) revealed the flaws in my DLP-link glasses. I'd be happy to get better glasses, but I've tested two other brands and what I have appears to be the best available now. Infrequent ghosting is a small price for the brightness and FOV I enjoy.
Airion, when you use that high gain screen, doesn't it actually get too bright?
When I use the H5360 in Eco mode, glasses on, on flat white paint wall (gain 1.0), it's still bright enough to adjust in game to proper bright/dark.
Just curious how that adjustment looks for you in high-gain case, and what I might be missing.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
By the numbers, assuming 2.0 gain from my seating area, 670 lumens in 3D mode, and 70% light loss from the glasses, I get around 20 foot lamberts, somewhere between the cinema industry standard of 14fL and what you'd typically get with a TV.
I'd have to look into it but there might be a difference between the H5360BD in DLP-link mode and the H5360 when using the 3D Vision emitter. In DLP-link mode, the H5360BD doesn't use a few segments of the color wheel (or rather, uses them to emit the DLP-link flash), lowering the brightness (technically, white brightness) vs 2D mode.
NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal), Intel Core i7-6900K, Win 10 Pro,
ASUS ROG Rampage V Edition 10, G.Skill RipJaws V 4x 8GB DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34,
ASUS ROG Swift PG258Q, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q, Acer Predator XB280HK, BenQ W710ST
http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/
The math is professional but the presets are amateur, taken from reviews, and might or might not be accurate.
Here's where I got my 3D mode 670 lumen number from (and I was wrong, it's 698), on the second page of this H5360 review:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Acer_H5360_home_theater_projector_review.htm?page=Additional-Advantages
Notice the calculator above doesn't account for this lower 3D mode number. Also, the review says the brightness is the same in DLP link or Nvidia 3D mode.
It depends on the brand and the glasses. Also some glasses are adjustable, allowing you to increase the time the shutters are closed which can help block ghosting. I'm sure 90% is possible, but I think it's pretty extreme.
Thanks for the info! It sounds like I definitely have to at least try out a high-gain screen. I'm always up for making the experience as good as it can be.
That seems too high. For NVidia glasses in particular, I think this image is a good test case. The camera has a shutter speed that allows for a moderately OK picture, and you can see how bright the lines are outside of the glasses, then inside the glasses. There is no way that is 90%. I would put it at maybe half as bright.
In any case, I would say that even minus a high-gain screen it is playable.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers