"Weird because all the other 3D capable screens I know only have 60Hz inputs when at full resolution, including the iZ3D screen, Zalman screen (which i own), Hyundai screens and the vast majority of 3D-ready DLPTVs and projectors.
The iZ3D driver does not calculates the frames at 120Hz, it uses the same refresh rate in both 2D and 3D, even at zero separation/convergence."
Correct the 60 to 120 conversion is done in the 3D ready display, 60 lots of 2 images converted to 120 images = 3D ready. iZ3D DLP driver does not export interlaced data like its driver for their polarised screens.
"QUOTE (MorSage @ Feb 11 2010, 04:15 AM)
(iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays)
This is news to me, especially since no one from the iZ3D dev team or iz3d forums seem to be aware of it. When asked about SLI/Crossfire support they systematically answer that the driver does work but only uses one GPU core and does not benefit from the other GPU cores. They are still working on it.
So far only nvidia supports 3D + dual-GPU SLI."
Ask them specifically in referance to their DLP driver which seems to add a layer on top of the normal graphic data transmitted through a single input unlike the driver for thier own screens that require dual inputs and currently cannot support crossfire or SLI. I have tried it (Quad SLI) and currently use it ATI 5970 (but the crossfire of this card is transparent to the system) and it works.
"Weird because all the other 3D capable screens I know only have 60Hz inputs when at full resolution, including the iZ3D screen, Zalman screen (which i own), Hyundai screens and the vast majority of 3D-ready DLPTVs and projectors.
The iZ3D driver does not calculates the frames at 120Hz, it uses the same refresh rate in both 2D and 3D, even at zero separation/convergence."
Correct the 60 to 120 conversion is done in the 3D ready display, 60 lots of 2 images converted to 120 images = 3D ready. iZ3D DLP driver does not export interlaced data like its driver for their polarised screens.
"QUOTE (MorSage @ Feb 11 2010, 04:15 AM)
(iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays)
This is news to me, especially since no one from the iZ3D dev team or iz3d forums seem to be aware of it. When asked about SLI/Crossfire support they systematically answer that the driver does work but only uses one GPU core and does not benefit from the other GPU cores. They are still working on it.
So far only nvidia supports 3D + dual-GPU SLI."
Ask them specifically in referance to their DLP driver which seems to add a layer on top of the normal graphic data transmitted through a single input unlike the driver for thier own screens that require dual inputs and currently cannot support crossfire or SLI. I have tried it (Quad SLI) and currently use it ATI 5970 (but the crossfire of this card is transparent to the system) and it works.
EVGA X58 760 Classified (VREG,NB/SB WB Koolance seperate loop), i7 980X@4.4+GHz 33x134 1.3625V Thermaltake Venoumous S with CoolerMaster push-pull fans, 12GB OCZ 8-8-8-24@16000 1.65V, ATI 5970 WB Koolance on seperate loop @1.16V 850-1200 or Nvidia 295, Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe into Yamaha RX-V3800, 4x300GB Velociraptors Raid 0 on Adaptec 4505 RAID, 4x60GB OCZ Vertex SSD RAID 0 LSI 9750, 1TB WD SATA3, 128GB Falcon SSD, Thermaltake 1200W, Thermaltake TX Mozart, Logitech diNovo Bluetooth Keyboard + MX1000 Mouse, Logitech Sphere MP webcam, Logitech cordless Rumblepad2, 50" Samsung 3D PS50B450 plasma, Samsung SSG1000 3D glasses, Nvidia 3D Vision, Windows 7 Ultimate x64 RTM
[quote name='MorSage' post='999158' date='Feb 10 2010, 10:15 PM']"It's maybe time you realize that the nvidia Geforce 3D vision system key advantage over competiting solutions isn't about the glasses, and it itsn't either about games compatibility (when geforce 3D vision was initially released, the nvidia driver used to have it's ass kicked by both iZ3D and DDD's drivers, now they're about equal with iZ3D's, varying from game to game)". BlackSharkfr
It's maybe time you realize that this thread is about glasses, you are right though that nvidia does not have a glasses or game advantage at present. Further to your off topic rant.
"The key advantage of this system is exclusive compatibility with desktop 120Hz [i]not-3Dready[/i] LCD monitors : only nvidia can do it, and nvidia only supports it's own glasses on it's own systems. Since gamers already want these displays for 120Hz 2D gaming, they can upgrade their displays to the nvidia geforce 3D system for cheaper than any competitor (whick all require special displays, usually quite old displays)." BlackSharkfr
You call support for small (deceases size of artifacts and convergance issues in nvidia drivers that if viewed on bigger, brighter screens are more apparent due to the accuracy of the screens) , slow refreshing, dim (decreases ghosting from displays poor refresh method and driver focus / convergance issues), low colour gamut, low contrast srceens that do not support more open 3D implementations and generally offer a less versatile and a much worse 3d experience than 3D ready plasma and DLP solutions an advantage! 120HZ function for 2D gaming is great but nearly all 3D Ready screens can do that (iZ3D driver convergence and seperation set to zero) but some people do not know it, and may wrongly believe that they are getting a unique advantage rather than being handicapped by their special nvidia technology. In fairness to nvidia exclusive screens most other LCD 3D displays have similar hardware limitations but these do not neccesarily restrict the freedom of consumers to choose their software support. I wonder how nvidia's conduct will stack up when tested by consumer protection laws, probably not well.
I think that previously nvidia was the best value for money and more functional 3D gaming solution but those days are clearly over if they really existed, especially in terms of the performance of their glasses not to mention their current drivers ratcrap convergance issues and poor compatability even with thier own products (iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays), I thank nvidia for their poor support and driver performance as it made this former happy customer look at other alternatives and now I am enjoying much better 3D experiences but would still like nvidia to up their performance and again spur on the 3D revolution.[/quote]
The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD.
[quote name='MorSage' post='999158' date='Feb 10 2010, 10:15 PM']"It's maybe time you realize that the nvidia Geforce 3D vision system key advantage over competiting solutions isn't about the glasses, and it itsn't either about games compatibility (when geforce 3D vision was initially released, the nvidia driver used to have it's ass kicked by both iZ3D and DDD's drivers, now they're about equal with iZ3D's, varying from game to game)". BlackSharkfr
It's maybe time you realize that this thread is about glasses, you are right though that nvidia does not have a glasses or game advantage at present. Further to your off topic rant.
"The key advantage of this system is exclusive compatibility with desktop 120Hz not-3Dready LCD monitors : only nvidia can do it, and nvidia only supports it's own glasses on it's own systems. Since gamers already want these displays for 120Hz 2D gaming, they can upgrade their displays to the nvidia geforce 3D system for cheaper than any competitor (whick all require special displays, usually quite old displays)." BlackSharkfr
You call support for small (deceases size of artifacts and convergance issues in nvidia drivers that if viewed on bigger, brighter screens are more apparent due to the accuracy of the screens) , slow refreshing, dim (decreases ghosting from displays poor refresh method and driver focus / convergance issues), low colour gamut, low contrast srceens that do not support more open 3D implementations and generally offer a less versatile and a much worse 3d experience than 3D ready plasma and DLP solutions an advantage! 120HZ function for 2D gaming is great but nearly all 3D Ready screens can do that (iZ3D driver convergence and seperation set to zero) but some people do not know it, and may wrongly believe that they are getting a unique advantage rather than being handicapped by their special nvidia technology. In fairness to nvidia exclusive screens most other LCD 3D displays have similar hardware limitations but these do not neccesarily restrict the freedom of consumers to choose their software support. I wonder how nvidia's conduct will stack up when tested by consumer protection laws, probably not well.
I think that previously nvidia was the best value for money and more functional 3D gaming solution but those days are clearly over if they really existed, especially in terms of the performance of their glasses not to mention their current drivers ratcrap convergance issues and poor compatability even with thier own products (iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays), I thank nvidia for their poor support and driver performance as it made this former happy customer look at other alternatives and now I am enjoying much better 3D experiences but would still like nvidia to up their performance and again spur on the 3D revolution.
The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD.
"Morsage, can you help where I can get the Samsung kit?"
I got mine by pot luck, tried to buy them when bought the TV, retailers, online the whole bit and no luck. Then recently when I had about as much as I could stand of the failed promises and poor performance of nvidia's support and most of all the RS convergance management in their 3D implementation I decided to sell my nvidia everything (1 295 and 3D kit with 2 glasses still for sale, 4 295s sold already) and wait for the new wave of open standard alternatives despite really liking 3D warts and all. In this process I again tried to search out Samsung SSG1000 and found some on amazon in the US, took the plunge and got myself a brand new factory sealed kit delivered to Thailand, so all I can recommend is that you periodically search ebay and amazon. Reading the amazon reviews I saw that 2 others recently got kits, 1 like me was absolutely wrapped and the other pissed he had to return a broken kit. Goodluck in your hunt, but better alternatives should be available within April as both Samsung and Panasonic will be launching 3D shutter glass compatible TVs around this time in select markets (buy glasses on ebay/amazon) as per MTBS and one of my friends brothers who runs Samsung in Thailand that has considerable manufacturing facilities here.
"The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD."
iZ3D drivers cost $49 or are free to ATI users, my Samsung SSG1000 glasses/emmitter and Tridef software cost $129 = <$200 for a lot more function unless you have a nvidia only 3D screen. Nvidia certanly had effective marketing and distribution not sure how good it is now but I am sure that their position is eroding and that their TWIMTBS program has not delivered much tangible benefit to their customers. Further, it seems the nvidia system was designed as a seperate ecological system rather than part of a wider 3D revolution, as their dim slow refreshing glasses and screens match each other and reduce weaknesses in the drivers performance and implementation but works pretty good within its narrow functional parameters. Being outside the real 3D revolution being promoted by much bigger players like Samsung, Sony etc places nvidia's marketing and distribution as the small fish swimming with the big fish, I wish them good luck and we shall see what happens. 3 Cheers for ignorance is bliss, trueisms and loyalist crap.
"Morsage, can you help where I can get the Samsung kit?"
I got mine by pot luck, tried to buy them when bought the TV, retailers, online the whole bit and no luck. Then recently when I had about as much as I could stand of the failed promises and poor performance of nvidia's support and most of all the RS convergance management in their 3D implementation I decided to sell my nvidia everything (1 295 and 3D kit with 2 glasses still for sale, 4 295s sold already) and wait for the new wave of open standard alternatives despite really liking 3D warts and all. In this process I again tried to search out Samsung SSG1000 and found some on amazon in the US, took the plunge and got myself a brand new factory sealed kit delivered to Thailand, so all I can recommend is that you periodically search ebay and amazon. Reading the amazon reviews I saw that 2 others recently got kits, 1 like me was absolutely wrapped and the other pissed he had to return a broken kit. Goodluck in your hunt, but better alternatives should be available within April as both Samsung and Panasonic will be launching 3D shutter glass compatible TVs around this time in select markets (buy glasses on ebay/amazon) as per MTBS and one of my friends brothers who runs Samsung in Thailand that has considerable manufacturing facilities here.
"The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD."
iZ3D drivers cost $49 or are free to ATI users, my Samsung SSG1000 glasses/emmitter and Tridef software cost $129 = <$200 for a lot more function unless you have a nvidia only 3D screen. Nvidia certanly had effective marketing and distribution not sure how good it is now but I am sure that their position is eroding and that their TWIMTBS program has not delivered much tangible benefit to their customers. Further, it seems the nvidia system was designed as a seperate ecological system rather than part of a wider 3D revolution, as their dim slow refreshing glasses and screens match each other and reduce weaknesses in the drivers performance and implementation but works pretty good within its narrow functional parameters. Being outside the real 3D revolution being promoted by much bigger players like Samsung, Sony etc places nvidia's marketing and distribution as the small fish swimming with the big fish, I wish them good luck and we shall see what happens. 3 Cheers for ignorance is bliss, trueisms and loyalist crap.
EVGA X58 760 Classified (VREG,NB/SB WB Koolance seperate loop), i7 980X@4.4+GHz 33x134 1.3625V Thermaltake Venoumous S with CoolerMaster push-pull fans, 12GB OCZ 8-8-8-24@16000 1.65V, ATI 5970 WB Koolance on seperate loop @1.16V 850-1200 or Nvidia 295, Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe into Yamaha RX-V3800, 4x300GB Velociraptors Raid 0 on Adaptec 4505 RAID, 4x60GB OCZ Vertex SSD RAID 0 LSI 9750, 1TB WD SATA3, 128GB Falcon SSD, Thermaltake 1200W, Thermaltake TX Mozart, Logitech diNovo Bluetooth Keyboard + MX1000 Mouse, Logitech Sphere MP webcam, Logitech cordless Rumblepad2, 50" Samsung 3D PS50B450 plasma, Samsung SSG1000 3D glasses, Nvidia 3D Vision, Windows 7 Ultimate x64 RTM
I haven't quite got a 3D monitor yet, I've ordered a Alienware AW2310, and they charged me on the 18th of Jan but apparantly are out of stock of a certain part they need in order to complete my monitor so have no ETA on when I'm getting it. Once I do though, I was planning on going out and buying a pair of the Nvidia 3D vision glasses however I'd love to know if there really is a pro version coming out, as I'd prefer waiting over buying a pair of glasses then replacing them shortly after.
I haven't quite got a 3D monitor yet, I've ordered a Alienware AW2310, and they charged me on the 18th of Jan but apparantly are out of stock of a certain part they need in order to complete my monitor so have no ETA on when I'm getting it. Once I do though, I was planning on going out and buying a pair of the Nvidia 3D vision glasses however I'd love to know if there really is a pro version coming out, as I'd prefer waiting over buying a pair of glasses then replacing them shortly after.
Personally I think it's not about the glasses, it's about the screen, if you want a great 3D experience buy a projector. I just bought one with the NVidia glasses and it works great!
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)
Personally I think it's not about the glasses, it's about the screen, if you want a great 3D experience buy a projector. I just bought one with the NVidia glasses and it works great!
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)
[quote name='jurrien' post='1000601' date='Feb 13 2010, 02:58 AM']Personally I think it's not about the glasses, it's about the screen, if you want a great 3D experience buy a projector. I just bought one with the NVidia glasses and it works great!
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)[/quote]
Yeah that would be nice and wish I could afford it. I went with the LCD solution cause I had other reasons I wanted a 120hz monitor besides 3d and really it isnt too bad.
[quote name='jurrien' post='1000601' date='Feb 13 2010, 02:58 AM']Personally I think it's not about the glasses, it's about the screen, if you want a great 3D experience buy a projector. I just bought one with the NVidia glasses and it works great!
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)
Yeah that would be nice and wish I could afford it. I went with the LCD solution cause I had other reasons I wanted a 120hz monitor besides 3d and really it isnt too bad.
I'm personally sending back my 3D glasses today. I could better use the $200 currently. I have the Aileanware 23" 1080p, and the top screen ghosting is just to much for me. It REALLY ruins the games, and movies. I'm not blaming the monitor, i'm blaming the glasses currently. I think its a sync issue, your relying on the USB of your computer to do the timing with the monitor, as fast as computers are, there is still lag, then add in cable length and so fourth.
I'll keep checking the board to see if they finally fix the issues, then i'll jump on board again.
I am keeping the monitor though, 120fps in games is niiiiicceee.
I'm personally sending back my 3D glasses today. I could better use the $200 currently. I have the Aileanware 23" 1080p, and the top screen ghosting is just to much for me. It REALLY ruins the games, and movies. I'm not blaming the monitor, i'm blaming the glasses currently. I think its a sync issue, your relying on the USB of your computer to do the timing with the monitor, as fast as computers are, there is still lag, then add in cable length and so fourth.
I'll keep checking the board to see if they finally fix the issues, then i'll jump on board again.
I am keeping the monitor though, 120fps in games is niiiiicceee.
Well, I got rid of pretty much all of the ghosting on my Viewsonic VX2268wm that I had in HL2 by editing the gamma settings (console commands) and reducing the screens contrast a bit EXCEPT the parts of the ghosting that my glasses are responsible for:
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.
Well, I got rid of pretty much all of the ghosting on my Viewsonic VX2268wm that I had in HL2 by editing the gamma settings (console commands) and reducing the screens contrast a bit EXCEPT the parts of the ghosting that my glasses are responsible for:
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.
[quote name='wulf 21' post='1085506' date='Jul 9 2010, 04:31 PM']Well, I got rid of pretty much all of the ghosting on my Viewsonic VX2268wm that I had in HL2 by editing the gamma settings (console commands) and reducing the screens contrast a bit EXCEPT the parts of the ghosting that my glasses are responsible for:
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.[/quote]
Better syncing and perfectly darkening shutter glasses are on the horizon, but it is likely going to require a display change. There is a thread someone where talking about it. I will find it and link it.
:edit: [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=173006&hl="]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=173006&hl=[/url]
Check that thread. Someone provides a link showing why LCDs are less than stellar for 3D. I start questioning him and we have a short but enlightening back and fourth.
[quote name='wulf 21' post='1085506' date='Jul 9 2010, 04:31 PM']Well, I got rid of pretty much all of the ghosting on my Viewsonic VX2268wm that I had in HL2 by editing the gamma settings (console commands) and reducing the screens contrast a bit EXCEPT the parts of the ghosting that my glasses are responsible for:
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.
Better syncing and perfectly darkening shutter glasses are on the horizon, but it is likely going to require a display change. There is a thread someone where talking about it. I will find it and link it.
Check that thread. Someone provides a link showing why LCDs are less than stellar for 3D. I start questioning him and we have a short but enlightening back and fourth.
The iZ3D driver does not calculates the frames at 120Hz, it uses the same refresh rate in both 2D and 3D, even at zero separation/convergence."
Correct the 60 to 120 conversion is done in the 3D ready display, 60 lots of 2 images converted to 120 images = 3D ready. iZ3D DLP driver does not export interlaced data like its driver for their polarised screens.
"QUOTE (MorSage @ Feb 11 2010, 04:15 AM)
(iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays)
This is news to me, especially since no one from the iZ3D dev team or iz3d forums seem to be aware of it. When asked about SLI/Crossfire support they systematically answer that the driver does work but only uses one GPU core and does not benefit from the other GPU cores. They are still working on it.
So far only nvidia supports 3D + dual-GPU SLI."
Ask them specifically in referance to their DLP driver which seems to add a layer on top of the normal graphic data transmitted through a single input unlike the driver for thier own screens that require dual inputs and currently cannot support crossfire or SLI. I have tried it (Quad SLI) and currently use it ATI 5970 (but the crossfire of this card is transparent to the system) and it works.
The iZ3D driver does not calculates the frames at 120Hz, it uses the same refresh rate in both 2D and 3D, even at zero separation/convergence."
Correct the 60 to 120 conversion is done in the 3D ready display, 60 lots of 2 images converted to 120 images = 3D ready. iZ3D DLP driver does not export interlaced data like its driver for their polarised screens.
"QUOTE (MorSage @ Feb 11 2010, 04:15 AM)
(iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays)
This is news to me, especially since no one from the iZ3D dev team or iz3d forums seem to be aware of it. When asked about SLI/Crossfire support they systematically answer that the driver does work but only uses one GPU core and does not benefit from the other GPU cores. They are still working on it.
So far only nvidia supports 3D + dual-GPU SLI."
Ask them specifically in referance to their DLP driver which seems to add a layer on top of the normal graphic data transmitted through a single input unlike the driver for thier own screens that require dual inputs and currently cannot support crossfire or SLI. I have tried it (Quad SLI) and currently use it ATI 5970 (but the crossfire of this card is transparent to the system) and it works.
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It's maybe time you realize that this thread is about glasses, you are right though that nvidia does not have a glasses or game advantage at present. Further to your off topic rant.
"The key advantage of this system is exclusive compatibility with desktop 120Hz [i]not-3Dready[/i] LCD monitors : only nvidia can do it, and nvidia only supports it's own glasses on it's own systems. Since gamers already want these displays for 120Hz 2D gaming, they can upgrade their displays to the nvidia geforce 3D system for cheaper than any competitor (whick all require special displays, usually quite old displays)." BlackSharkfr
You call support for small (deceases size of artifacts and convergance issues in nvidia drivers that if viewed on bigger, brighter screens are more apparent due to the accuracy of the screens) , slow refreshing, dim (decreases ghosting from displays poor refresh method and driver focus / convergance issues), low colour gamut, low contrast srceens that do not support more open 3D implementations and generally offer a less versatile and a much worse 3d experience than 3D ready plasma and DLP solutions an advantage! 120HZ function for 2D gaming is great but nearly all 3D Ready screens can do that (iZ3D driver convergence and seperation set to zero) but some people do not know it, and may wrongly believe that they are getting a unique advantage rather than being handicapped by their special nvidia technology. In fairness to nvidia exclusive screens most other LCD 3D displays have similar hardware limitations but these do not neccesarily restrict the freedom of consumers to choose their software support. I wonder how nvidia's conduct will stack up when tested by consumer protection laws, probably not well.
I think that previously nvidia was the best value for money and more functional 3D gaming solution but those days are clearly over if they really existed, especially in terms of the performance of their glasses not to mention their current drivers ratcrap convergance issues and poor compatability even with thier own products (iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays), I thank nvidia for their poor support and driver performance as it made this former happy customer look at other alternatives and now I am enjoying much better 3D experiences but would still like nvidia to up their performance and again spur on the 3D revolution.[/quote]
The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD.
It's maybe time you realize that this thread is about glasses, you are right though that nvidia does not have a glasses or game advantage at present. Further to your off topic rant.
"The key advantage of this system is exclusive compatibility with desktop 120Hz not-3Dready LCD monitors : only nvidia can do it, and nvidia only supports it's own glasses on it's own systems. Since gamers already want these displays for 120Hz 2D gaming, they can upgrade their displays to the nvidia geforce 3D system for cheaper than any competitor (whick all require special displays, usually quite old displays)." BlackSharkfr
You call support for small (deceases size of artifacts and convergance issues in nvidia drivers that if viewed on bigger, brighter screens are more apparent due to the accuracy of the screens) , slow refreshing, dim (decreases ghosting from displays poor refresh method and driver focus / convergance issues), low colour gamut, low contrast srceens that do not support more open 3D implementations and generally offer a less versatile and a much worse 3d experience than 3D ready plasma and DLP solutions an advantage! 120HZ function for 2D gaming is great but nearly all 3D Ready screens can do that (iZ3D driver convergence and seperation set to zero) but some people do not know it, and may wrongly believe that they are getting a unique advantage rather than being handicapped by their special nvidia technology. In fairness to nvidia exclusive screens most other LCD 3D displays have similar hardware limitations but these do not neccesarily restrict the freedom of consumers to choose their software support. I wonder how nvidia's conduct will stack up when tested by consumer protection laws, probably not well.
I think that previously nvidia was the best value for money and more functional 3D gaming solution but those days are clearly over if they really existed, especially in terms of the performance of their glasses not to mention their current drivers ratcrap convergance issues and poor compatability even with thier own products (iZ3D can support Quad and 3-way SLI in DLP mode but not on its' own displays similar to nvidia who can not support them on any displays), I thank nvidia for their poor support and driver performance as it made this former happy customer look at other alternatives and now I am enjoying much better 3D experiences but would still like nvidia to up their performance and again spur on the 3D revolution.
The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD.
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I got mine by pot luck, tried to buy them when bought the TV, retailers, online the whole bit and no luck. Then recently when I had about as much as I could stand of the failed promises and poor performance of nvidia's support and most of all the RS convergance management in their 3D implementation I decided to sell my nvidia everything (1 295 and 3D kit with 2 glasses still for sale, 4 295s sold already) and wait for the new wave of open standard alternatives despite really liking 3D warts and all. In this process I again tried to search out Samsung SSG1000 and found some on amazon in the US, took the plunge and got myself a brand new factory sealed kit delivered to Thailand, so all I can recommend is that you periodically search ebay and amazon. Reading the amazon reviews I saw that 2 others recently got kits, 1 like me was absolutely wrapped and the other pissed he had to return a broken kit. Goodluck in your hunt, but better alternatives should be available within April as both Samsung and Panasonic will be launching 3D shutter glass compatible TVs around this time in select markets (buy glasses on ebay/amazon) as per MTBS and one of my friends brothers who runs Samsung in Thailand that has considerable manufacturing facilities here.
"The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD."
iZ3D drivers cost $49 or are free to ATI users, my Samsung SSG1000 glasses/emmitter and Tridef software cost $129 = <$200 for a lot more function unless you have a nvidia only 3D screen. Nvidia certanly had effective marketing and distribution not sure how good it is now but I am sure that their position is eroding and that their TWIMTBS program has not delivered much tangible benefit to their customers. Further, it seems the nvidia system was designed as a seperate ecological system rather than part of a wider 3D revolution, as their dim slow refreshing glasses and screens match each other and reduce weaknesses in the drivers performance and implementation but works pretty good within its narrow functional parameters. Being outside the real 3D revolution being promoted by much bigger players like Samsung, Sony etc places nvidia's marketing and distribution as the small fish swimming with the big fish, I wish them good luck and we shall see what happens. 3 Cheers for ignorance is bliss, trueisms and loyalist crap.
I got mine by pot luck, tried to buy them when bought the TV, retailers, online the whole bit and no luck. Then recently when I had about as much as I could stand of the failed promises and poor performance of nvidia's support and most of all the RS convergance management in their 3D implementation I decided to sell my nvidia everything (1 295 and 3D kit with 2 glasses still for sale, 4 295s sold already) and wait for the new wave of open standard alternatives despite really liking 3D warts and all. In this process I again tried to search out Samsung SSG1000 and found some on amazon in the US, took the plunge and got myself a brand new factory sealed kit delivered to Thailand, so all I can recommend is that you periodically search ebay and amazon. Reading the amazon reviews I saw that 2 others recently got kits, 1 like me was absolutely wrapped and the other pissed he had to return a broken kit. Goodluck in your hunt, but better alternatives should be available within April as both Samsung and Panasonic will be launching 3D shutter glass compatible TVs around this time in select markets (buy glasses on ebay/amazon) as per MTBS and one of my friends brothers who runs Samsung in Thailand that has considerable manufacturing facilities here.
"The point is that nvidia has international brand recognition and near 100% market penetration. Even most of us "enthusiasts" don't know who the hell "IZ3d" is or how their system works -- we all have nvidia hardware, though, so it's not a big stretch to spend $200 on add-in hardware that will build on the value of our existing nvidia-based computer and turn it into a stereoscopic 3d gaming system. On the other hand, it is a pretty big stretch to expect any meaningful portion of gamers to figure out who "IZ3D" is, how their product works, and where they can buy it (and how to install and use it on their computer) -- whether it has better drivers or works with more games or hardware is beside the point entirely. In the long run, the solution with market penetration and sales figures wins every time.
Furthermore, with the success of nvidia's "TWIMTBS" branding campaign odds are good that "3D Vision Ready" will catch on with game manufacturers in a way third-party 3d-solution providers couldn't hope to acheive.
At the end of the day, the most technically advanced or well-designed product doesn't always win -- it's all about distribution, marketing, and branding. Just ask the folks behind Beta-Max and HD-DVD."
iZ3D drivers cost $49 or are free to ATI users, my Samsung SSG1000 glasses/emmitter and Tridef software cost $129 = <$200 for a lot more function unless you have a nvidia only 3D screen. Nvidia certanly had effective marketing and distribution not sure how good it is now but I am sure that their position is eroding and that their TWIMTBS program has not delivered much tangible benefit to their customers. Further, it seems the nvidia system was designed as a seperate ecological system rather than part of a wider 3D revolution, as their dim slow refreshing glasses and screens match each other and reduce weaknesses in the drivers performance and implementation but works pretty good within its narrow functional parameters. Being outside the real 3D revolution being promoted by much bigger players like Samsung, Sony etc places nvidia's marketing and distribution as the small fish swimming with the big fish, I wish them good luck and we shall see what happens. 3 Cheers for ignorance is bliss, trueisms and loyalist crap.
EVGA X58 760 Classified (VREG,NB/SB WB Koolance seperate loop), i7 980X@4.4+GHz 33x134 1.3625V Thermaltake Venoumous S with CoolerMaster push-pull fans, 12GB OCZ 8-8-8-24@16000 1.65V, ATI 5970 WB Koolance on seperate loop @1.16V 850-1200 or Nvidia 295, Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe into Yamaha RX-V3800, 4x300GB Velociraptors Raid 0 on Adaptec 4505 RAID, 4x60GB OCZ Vertex SSD RAID 0 LSI 9750, 1TB WD SATA3, 128GB Falcon SSD, Thermaltake 1200W, Thermaltake TX Mozart, Logitech diNovo Bluetooth Keyboard + MX1000 Mouse, Logitech Sphere MP webcam, Logitech cordless Rumblepad2, 50" Samsung 3D PS50B450 plasma, Samsung SSG1000 3D glasses, Nvidia 3D Vision, Windows 7 Ultimate x64 RTM
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)[/quote]
Yeah that would be nice and wish I could afford it. I went with the LCD solution cause I had other reasons I wanted a 120hz monitor besides 3d and really it isnt too bad.
1) No flicker
2) NO Ghosting
3) Immersive big screen
I really didn't think it would work this good, I was expecting some ghosting and flicker, but it really is like in my local movie theater.
The only thing they have to improve in my opinion is the drivers, make them plug and play and easy to install.
(Previously I had the IZ3D monitor, and although it worked there was a lot of ghosting. They have a great driver but the ghosting is really bad.)
Yeah that would be nice and wish I could afford it. I went with the LCD solution cause I had other reasons I wanted a 120hz monitor besides 3d and really it isnt too bad.
3D Vision must live! NVIDIA, don't let us down!
3D Vision must live! NVIDIA, don't let us down!
I think 2.0 isnt needed they need to fix other things and with most games having brightnes controls its not that big of a deal.
I think 2.0 isnt needed they need to fix other things and with most games having brightnes controls its not that big of a deal.
I'll keep checking the board to see if they finally fix the issues, then i'll jump on board again.
I am keeping the monitor though, 120fps in games is niiiiicceee.
I'll keep checking the board to see if they finally fix the issues, then i'll jump on board again.
I am keeping the monitor though, 120fps in games is niiiiicceee.
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.[/quote]
Better syncing and perfectly darkening shutter glasses are on the horizon, but it is likely going to require a display change. There is a thread someone where talking about it. I will find it and link it.
:edit: [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=173006&hl="]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=173006&hl=[/url]
Check that thread. Someone provides a link showing why LCDs are less than stellar for 3D. I start questioning him and we have a short but enlightening back and fourth.
the top and bottom ghosting (= sync issue) and the blue shining of bright objects through the shut glass: Its easy to proof that thats the glasses fault cause
1: the blue ghosting vanishes if I turn my head to look straight at the ghost picture and
2: If I wait until the glasses turn off cause they were idle, they signal that by turning dark and light the left glass. If I look through it while its darkened, I see my monitor picture shining a bit through it, only the middle of the glass where I look in an 90 degree angle through it is really black.
So all I want are perfectly synced (maybe add a very short phase in which both glasses are dark to give the screen time to change the picture) and perfectly darkening shutter glasses and everything would be fine.
I hope some third party will make glasses that work with the infrared signal of Nvidia's 3D Vision and can have user customizable shutter timing.
Better syncing and perfectly darkening shutter glasses are on the horizon, but it is likely going to require a display change. There is a thread someone where talking about it. I will find it and link it.
:edit: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=173006&hl=
Check that thread. Someone provides a link showing why LCDs are less than stellar for 3D. I start questioning him and we have a short but enlightening back and fourth.
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