nVidia: Requesting Dyna-Z Plz :) AutoConvergence Fix
The oldies will remember Dyna-Z function of the revelator drivers. nVidia calls it AutoStereoConvergence. What it does is automatically adjust the convergence in any scene for maximum 3D. Although it may "distort" the shapes, the 3D effect is simply amazing.
In games where the perspective is always shifting, this is an awsome thing... Homeworld, or any strategy game for example. Ever noticed, when you zoom in, everything is very 3D, if you zoom in more, there is too much convergence and eyes get strained, and you dont see a 3D image but 2 images... or when you zoom out, you just see deep into the screen, but there is no 3D effect... Autoconvergence attempts to fix this by automatically converging on the neareast item. Words cannot describe it... I shall not attempt to. I shal simply say your jaw will drop.

In FPS, this is not needed as the perspective is always the same... though, it does have its merrits, when you are in a wide hallway, it will converge so that you ahve maximum 3D, and you are in a narrow hallway, it will decrease convergence so you can see the whole picture. The bottom line is, convergence makes it so that you are in glorious optimum 3D all the time.

In the drivers so far, although it is "supported", it is never seen to work.

I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries as a stereo fan by requesing that this feature be fixed in the upcoming drivers. It will take minimal effort on the developers part, and will yield astonishing results... "biggest bang for the buck" scenario.

Does anyone remember it?

Please post your thoughts, and please say what your experiences with it were, and if this feature should be high on the priority list? :)

-- RAGEdemon
The oldies will remember Dyna-Z function of the revelator drivers. nVidia calls it AutoStereoConvergence. What it does is automatically adjust the convergence in any scene for maximum 3D. Although it may "distort" the shapes, the 3D effect is simply amazing.

In games where the perspective is always shifting, this is an awsome thing... Homeworld, or any strategy game for example. Ever noticed, when you zoom in, everything is very 3D, if you zoom in more, there is too much convergence and eyes get strained, and you dont see a 3D image but 2 images... or when you zoom out, you just see deep into the screen, but there is no 3D effect... Autoconvergence attempts to fix this by automatically converging on the neareast item. Words cannot describe it... I shall not attempt to. I shal simply say your jaw will drop.



In FPS, this is not needed as the perspective is always the same... though, it does have its merrits, when you are in a wide hallway, it will converge so that you ahve maximum 3D, and you are in a narrow hallway, it will decrease convergence so you can see the whole picture. The bottom line is, convergence makes it so that you are in glorious optimum 3D all the time.



In the drivers so far, although it is "supported", it is never seen to work.



I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries as a stereo fan by requesing that this feature be fixed in the upcoming drivers. It will take minimal effort on the developers part, and will yield astonishing results... "biggest bang for the buck" scenario.



Does anyone remember it?



Please post your thoughts, and please say what your experiences with it were, and if this feature should be high on the priority list? :)



-- RAGEdemon

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#1
Posted 05/13/2005 03:55 PM   
I've not used a feature like this before, but it would be welcome. I'm forever changing convergence on UT2004, when I change weapons, just to squeeze out the best possible 3D. Having it done automatically would be great.
I've not used a feature like this before, but it would be welcome. I'm forever changing convergence on UT2004, when I change weapons, just to squeeze out the best possible 3D. Having it done automatically would be great.

It better be.

#2
Posted 05/13/2005 05:34 PM   
I used it with the elsa-driver - was nice. Seems that i forgot it meanwhile. I´ll have a test on 'AutoStereoConvergence', perhaps it can solve my 'incar-view'-Problem.

But what i realy miss, is the ingame-monitor of the elsa-driver. Change settings only if onscreen-monitor is 'on' - never probs. with key´s assigned to driver and games, changing RHW with info´s on screen ...
I used it with the elsa-driver - was nice. Seems that i forgot it meanwhile. I´ll have a test on 'AutoStereoConvergence', perhaps it can solve my 'incar-view'-Problem.



But what i realy miss, is the ingame-monitor of the elsa-driver. Change settings only if onscreen-monitor is 'on' - never probs. with key´s assigned to driver and games, changing RHW with info´s on screen ...

#3
Posted 05/13/2005 06:49 PM   
I would also like to see this feature.
I would also like to see this feature.

#4
Posted 05/14/2005 03:27 AM   
YES! Please! Only with this "little" effort, it''d take the drivers to a new level. I completely agree this is the most urgent & important thing to do.

It''s needed not only in strategy games, in car racing (internal & external views...), in fly simulation, space combat (you imagine star wars saga...?), even FPS (as RAGEDemon has said) when you are in the field of inside a home...

Of course there others things to do, but this is the most important.

It is really needed. We should make more enphasis on this subject in some way...

If only NVIDIA would say something about its planes for this...
YES! Please! Only with this "little" effort, it''d take the drivers to a new level. I completely agree this is the most urgent & important thing to do.



It''s needed not only in strategy games, in car racing (internal & external views...), in fly simulation, space combat (you imagine star wars saga...?), even FPS (as RAGEDemon has said) when you are in the field of inside a home...



Of course there others things to do, but this is the most important.



It is really needed. We should make more enphasis on this subject in some way...



If only NVIDIA would say something about its planes for this...

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#5
Posted 06/03/2005 12:15 PM   
I think ELSA Dyna-Z was more than just auto-convergence. Convergence just defines the z-value at which the parallax is zero, i.e. the screen plane. Dyna-Z as the name says dynamically adjusted the Z-values to get good 3D-effects for any given scene.

Let's say the Z-values (depth) range from 0 to 1. Then you will have games or certain game scenes containing objects placed in the range for example between 0.15358 and 0.90518, which means a wide distribution of objects in space and good 3D-effects.

Another game or scene in a game may only contain objects in the range between
0.51025 and 0.52173 So the dynamic depth range of this scene is very small and so is the effect. If the driver doesn't adjust for this small range you will get very weak effects.

ELSA dyna-Z took the value of the closest object and recalculated it to be the new 0 and the farest object to be the new 1. So you always had the full dynamic range, even if the actual differences in z-value among the objects in the scene were very small.

In other words Dyna-Z was a stereo-equalizer and amplifier.

Years ago I had discussions with the nVidia and ASUS developers about this. (ASUS had their own stereo-driver years ago.) Their opinion was that this isn't required to get good stereo.

If I remember correctly I was also told that Dyna-Z and an OSD don't work with T&L, since the stereo-driver has no access to the required information at the moment of calculation.

By the way the nVidia driver already contains some alpha-version of a stereo OSD.
On how to activate it check here:
[url="http://www.stereo3d.com/nvidia.htm#OSD"]http://www.stereo3d.com/nvidia.htm#OSD[/url]


Christoph
I think ELSA Dyna-Z was more than just auto-convergence. Convergence just defines the z-value at which the parallax is zero, i.e. the screen plane. Dyna-Z as the name says dynamically adjusted the Z-values to get good 3D-effects for any given scene.



Let's say the Z-values (depth) range from 0 to 1. Then you will have games or certain game scenes containing objects placed in the range for example between 0.15358 and 0.90518, which means a wide distribution of objects in space and good 3D-effects.



Another game or scene in a game may only contain objects in the range between

0.51025 and 0.52173 So the dynamic depth range of this scene is very small and so is the effect. If the driver doesn't adjust for this small range you will get very weak effects.



ELSA dyna-Z took the value of the closest object and recalculated it to be the new 0 and the farest object to be the new 1. So you always had the full dynamic range, even if the actual differences in z-value among the objects in the scene were very small.



In other words Dyna-Z was a stereo-equalizer and amplifier.



Years ago I had discussions with the nVidia and ASUS developers about this. (ASUS had their own stereo-driver years ago.) Their opinion was that this isn't required to get good stereo.



If I remember correctly I was also told that Dyna-Z and an OSD don't work with T&L, since the stereo-driver has no access to the required information at the moment of calculation.



By the way the nVidia driver already contains some alpha-version of a stereo OSD.

On how to activate it check here:

http://www.stereo3d.com/nvidia.htm#OSD





Christoph

#6
Posted 06/04/2005 10:21 AM   
Thanks for your input Christoph.

I remember there was a hack for the ELSA drivers where ou could force install some drivers and play with T&L enabled, and I think Dyna-Z worked fine. I remember playing Sacrifice with it without any problems, but with the increased performance from the hardwarre T&L acceleration. This was with a GeForce2.

Someone has already suggested putting some work into the driver to make it use propper buffers so all shader effects can be enabled in stereo, which should also allow the driver to gain acess to the appropriate Z values to accomplish this feat... nothing is impossible...

But what can we expect from a free barely supported driver... suppose we should be glad wer kept up to date every 6 months or so :)

Its a damn shame.

-- RAGEdemon
Thanks for your input Christoph.



I remember there was a hack for the ELSA drivers where ou could force install some drivers and play with T&L enabled, and I think Dyna-Z worked fine. I remember playing Sacrifice with it without any problems, but with the increased performance from the hardwarre T&L acceleration. This was with a GeForce2.



Someone has already suggested putting some work into the driver to make it use propper buffers so all shader effects can be enabled in stereo, which should also allow the driver to gain acess to the appropriate Z values to accomplish this feat... nothing is impossible...



But what can we expect from a free barely supported driver... suppose we should be glad wer kept up to date every 6 months or so :)



Its a damn shame.



-- RAGEdemon

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#7
Posted 06/04/2005 12:59 PM   
At least, Nvidia could do a simple thing I suggested them a year ago. To make change stereo settings (convergence, separation,) to a user-predefined combination with the touch of a key. So this key could be the same that is used to change between external and internal views, for example. (If you have a programmabel joystick, it''s easier: only to program a button to send the game-function keystroke and then the load stereo-config. key)

A single key used for 2 functions works well, as the convergence or separation keys that usually are used with some in-game function, and both functions work well (I am tired of test this, always with success...)

It''s a pitty they have not implemented a "simple" thing as this.
At least, Nvidia could do a simple thing I suggested them a year ago. To make change stereo settings (convergence, separation,) to a user-predefined combination with the touch of a key. So this key could be the same that is used to change between external and internal views, for example. (If you have a programmabel joystick, it''s easier: only to program a button to send the game-function keystroke and then the load stereo-config. key)



A single key used for 2 functions works well, as the convergence or separation keys that usually are used with some in-game function, and both functions work well (I am tired of test this, always with success...)



It''s a pitty they have not implemented a "simple" thing as this.

ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64

#8
Posted 06/06/2005 06:23 PM   
Not only that but changing in and out of 3d, takes more time then it should and it's inconvenient in games that have a UI that pops up and you can't see it. If they had a hot key for changing settings, I would probably hot key settings with no seperation, to change in and out of 3d, just so it is quicker.
Not only that but changing in and out of 3d, takes more time then it should and it's inconvenient in games that have a UI that pops up and you can't see it. If they had a hot key for changing settings, I would probably hot key settings with no seperation, to change in and out of 3d, just so it is quicker.

#9
Posted 06/07/2005 03:34 AM   
great thread you guys. Too bad it's years old. I would love to have this feature too. I've wondered if anyone had any results with it and how good it is. It sounds great and would be really good with Tombraider Legend and Anniversary since those games wind up zooming in on her face alot whenever a wall is nearby and you change the ange just wrong.

One "solution" is to use a projector and stand far away from the screen, then the amount of "too-much-convergence" can be limited because of smaller paralax since you're far away from the screen.

The pop-up menu/message problem should be fixed by adjusting the front-plane, but that approach may not work if the game programmers didn't make the game right for stereo-3d.

Questions:

Does anyone have a list or examples of video card and driver combinations for which things work right?
Like front-plane / back-plane control, well-functioning laser-sight, and autoconvergence? It would be great if you could post it.

Could those things be fixed/enabled in the windows registry? I can set myself up with windows 98/se/me/xp and geforce 2/4/5200/7800 cards and any driver versions that work. Also directx version may also make a difference in whether or not these things work right so include that too. Maybe I should start a new thread for this.
great thread you guys. Too bad it's years old. I would love to have this feature too. I've wondered if anyone had any results with it and how good it is. It sounds great and would be really good with Tombraider Legend and Anniversary since those games wind up zooming in on her face alot whenever a wall is nearby and you change the ange just wrong.



One "solution" is to use a projector and stand far away from the screen, then the amount of "too-much-convergence" can be limited because of smaller paralax since you're far away from the screen.



The pop-up menu/message problem should be fixed by adjusting the front-plane, but that approach may not work if the game programmers didn't make the game right for stereo-3d.



Questions:



Does anyone have a list or examples of video card and driver combinations for which things work right?

Like front-plane / back-plane control, well-functioning laser-sight, and autoconvergence? It would be great if you could post it.



Could those things be fixed/enabled in the windows registry? I can set myself up with windows 98/se/me/xp and geforce 2/4/5200/7800 cards and any driver versions that work. Also directx version may also make a difference in whether or not these things work right so include that too. Maybe I should start a new thread for this.

#10
Posted 07/29/2008 04:03 AM   
Wow! Monster grave-digging going on! :blink:

I'm not sure that feature ever worked; I have used many versions of the nvidia driver and that button never did anything for me. YMMV.
Wow! Monster grave-digging going on! :blink:



I'm not sure that feature ever worked; I have used many versions of the nvidia driver and that button never did anything for me. YMMV.
#11
Posted 08/03/2008 04:43 AM   
If I'm not mistaken, it is still (or again) in the drivers ...

I'm not at home, so I cannot verify, but I seem to recall, there's was option to assign a hotkey for toggling auto convergence

have a peek into Stereo Properties > Advanced Stereo Properties > Configure Hotkeys

there should be a drop down box for Convergence and I think it was defaulting to Ctrl-F8 for toggling auto convergence on and off

:)

HTH,
Maggi
If I'm not mistaken, it is still (or again) in the drivers ...



I'm not at home, so I cannot verify, but I seem to recall, there's was option to assign a hotkey for toggling auto convergence



have a peek into Stereo Properties > Advanced Stereo Properties > Configure Hotkeys



there should be a drop down box for Convergence and I think it was defaulting to Ctrl-F8 for toggling auto convergence on and off



:)



HTH,

Maggi

#12
Posted 08/20/2008 11:16 AM   
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