The 'opaque turning less opaque on the sides' is true! Not only I saw it yesterday, but I think this is the reason all LC glasses look alike ( and not too surround friendly to say at least).
BTW you shouldn't blame the LC in glasses ( thin LC) , but the LC in TN displays (thick LC)
thin LC = fast
thick LC = slow, and full of anomalies.
____________________
thin LC display = good display
The 'opaque turning less opaque on the sides' is true! Not only I saw it yesterday, but I think this is the reason all LC glasses look alike ( and not too surround friendly to say at least).
BTW you shouldn't blame the LC in glasses ( thin LC) , but the LC in TN displays (thick LC)
If you look thru the edges of the Glasses they have bad ghosting.
But if you look thru them the correct way the Nvidia ones are very good.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter Glasses and the Nvidia ones are on Par with the Xpand 102's which are claimed to be the best. To test them I use a Stereo Photo viewer. A White screen on one Eye and a Black screen on the other.
As for Thick/Thin. I have always been under the impression that only effects the Viewing Angle. Didn't think it had any effect on speed.
If you look thru the edges of the Glasses they have bad ghosting.
But if you look thru them the correct way the Nvidia ones are very good.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter Glasses and the Nvidia ones are on Par with the Xpand 102's which are claimed to be the best. To test them I use a Stereo Photo viewer. A White screen on one Eye and a Black screen on the other.
As for Thick/Thin. I have always been under the impression that only effects the Viewing Angle. Didn't think it had any effect on speed.
Thin LC is called "OCB".
Thick LC is called twisted nematic , "TN" .
Glasses are "OCB"
If we had "OCB" displays we 'd be in 3d heavan, cause it'd be as good as DLP, but brighter!
If OCB is so good then why is it the Glasses have Very high Light leakage around the edges ?
I have been used to differant terms.
DSTN is Thick
TFT is Thin. "Thin Film Tranistor"
Although I am aware TFT is old and been outdated with newer technology. The 3D ready LCD monitor I have is supposed to be the latest LCD technology and it still has Bad ghosting at times.
If OCB is so good then why is it the Glasses have Very high Light leakage around the edges ?
I have been used to differant terms.
DSTN is Thick
TFT is Thin. "Thin Film Tranistor"
Although I am aware TFT is old and been outdated with newer technology. The 3D ready LCD monitor I have is supposed to be the latest LCD technology and it still has Bad ghosting at times.
[quote name='CharlesYen' date='05 April 2011 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1302009148' post='1219626']
Stop blaming the Majority of your Ghosting on the Glasses.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter glasses and the Nvidia ones are actualy very good.
LCD is the WORST possable panel for 3D Viewing. LCD is too slow.
Yours may be the best as far as LCD goes. But LCD is still the worst of all the technologies.
Even the Best LCD is much slower than Plasma. And Even Plasma has some minor Ghosting.
I also have a Good Quality LCD 3D monitor for Gaming. And it's very good. But it still has Bad ghosting with White on Black.
I don't use it anymore cause I don't like ghosting in gaming. That's why I use DLP now. Zero Ghosting from the screen.
Charles
[/quote]
Thing is dude, i AM using them as they should be. Problem is, for example, a window on the right of my screen in batman, is towards the nose of my glasses and at a slight angle. That slight angle causes TERRIBLE ghosting. When i look at the ghosting (so its at a 90 degree angle to my head) it vanishes completely. I have the depth turned up. Turning it down helps with the problem, as the images aren't separated as much. This is surely 100% because of the glasses and not the LCD.
I don't know how to contact nvidia, so im going to try live chat when it opens later. I really get the feeling people on here arnt being honest on here though. Either we are all sharing the same problem, or i have faulty glasses as do some others. I LOVE this tech, im not trying to put down nvidia. Im pointing out a TRUTH that i am experiencing. Just because we own tech doesn't mean we have to defend it to its grave, im just pointing out that with my glasses the ghosting is largely caused by the glasses not blocking out the light at slight angles (aka right and left of my screen when im looking straight ahead.) Hopefully this information can be used to improve the glasses, such as perhaps able to block light at a larger angle via curving the glasses or something. I appreciate LCD response isnt that great, and so there will always be some black white contrast ghosting until thats fixed, but that is NOT what im talking about. Im talking about i see 2 windows in batman, where there should only be 1 when the image is to the right of left of screen and im looking straight ahead. If i look to where the window is the ghosting goes. That has nothing to do with my screen.
If other people aren't experiencing this, fair enough, and good for you. you have better glasses then me, which means i wil get mine replaced... but i am NOT making this up, and it definitely points to the glasses being at fault not the screen.
To give the best example i can\
when sat 3 feet away from 23 inch monitor, wearing glasses on face as normal, looking direct centre of screen, ghosting will occur on any object that is outside of 1cm from centre towards nose on glasses, increasingly getting worse until its 100% ghosting at the extreme
. sat at this distance, the very far right of my screen is at the extreme of my left eye nose position. he left of my screen is at the extreme nose point of my right eye. AKA serious ghosting on any object on left or right of the screen.
And so, why your telling me to not blame this on my glasses is beyond me, the fact Andrew hasn't commented would suggest that the problem is known about but they don't want to publicly admit it, as it could harm the brand image. I will talk to an nvidia support later, if it is my glasses at fault i will report back.
[quote name='CharlesYen' date='05 April 2011 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1302009148' post='1219626']
Stop blaming the Majority of your Ghosting on the Glasses.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter glasses and the Nvidia ones are actualy very good.
LCD is the WORST possable panel for 3D Viewing. LCD is too slow.
Yours may be the best as far as LCD goes. But LCD is still the worst of all the technologies.
Even the Best LCD is much slower than Plasma. And Even Plasma has some minor Ghosting.
I also have a Good Quality LCD 3D monitor for Gaming. And it's very good. But it still has Bad ghosting with White on Black.
I don't use it anymore cause I don't like ghosting in gaming. That's why I use DLP now. Zero Ghosting from the screen.
Charles
Thing is dude, i AM using them as they should be. Problem is, for example, a window on the right of my screen in batman, is towards the nose of my glasses and at a slight angle. That slight angle causes TERRIBLE ghosting. When i look at the ghosting (so its at a 90 degree angle to my head) it vanishes completely. I have the depth turned up. Turning it down helps with the problem, as the images aren't separated as much. This is surely 100% because of the glasses and not the LCD.
I don't know how to contact nvidia, so im going to try live chat when it opens later. I really get the feeling people on here arnt being honest on here though. Either we are all sharing the same problem, or i have faulty glasses as do some others. I LOVE this tech, im not trying to put down nvidia. Im pointing out a TRUTH that i am experiencing. Just because we own tech doesn't mean we have to defend it to its grave, im just pointing out that with my glasses the ghosting is largely caused by the glasses not blocking out the light at slight angles (aka right and left of my screen when im looking straight ahead.) Hopefully this information can be used to improve the glasses, such as perhaps able to block light at a larger angle via curving the glasses or something. I appreciate LCD response isnt that great, and so there will always be some black white contrast ghosting until thats fixed, but that is NOT what im talking about. Im talking about i see 2 windows in batman, where there should only be 1 when the image is to the right of left of screen and im looking straight ahead. If i look to where the window is the ghosting goes. That has nothing to do with my screen.
If other people aren't experiencing this, fair enough, and good for you. you have better glasses then me, which means i wil get mine replaced... but i am NOT making this up, and it definitely points to the glasses being at fault not the screen.
To give the best example i can\
when sat 3 feet away from 23 inch monitor, wearing glasses on face as normal, looking direct centre of screen, ghosting will occur on any object that is outside of 1cm from centre towards nose on glasses, increasingly getting worse until its 100% ghosting at the extreme
. sat at this distance, the very far right of my screen is at the extreme of my left eye nose position. he left of my screen is at the extreme nose point of my right eye. AKA serious ghosting on any object on left or right of the screen.
And so, why your telling me to not blame this on my glasses is beyond me, the fact Andrew hasn't commented would suggest that the problem is known about but they don't want to publicly admit it, as it could harm the brand image. I will talk to an nvidia support later, if it is my glasses at fault i will report back.
with this, i can see reasonably clearly the picture in the wrong eye. With the glasses on, there is only a very small dark blob in the centre that's any dark, and its not regular shape and not realy very dark. It seems mine are worse then any of the pictures 3d vision have taken plus their description yet they are using tvs which apparently have worse ghosting then mine.
To be honest, either way im sending them back as faulty, there's no way this is right. Its more like a smoky effect over the light, i can see clearly through the glasses, and that smokey effect is only right in the centre when i look through them. This picture isnt even that amazing contrat, black to, half lit. this has nothing to do with my screen.
with this, i can see reasonably clearly the picture in the wrong eye. With the glasses on, there is only a very small dark blob in the centre that's any dark, and its not regular shape and not realy very dark. It seems mine are worse then any of the pictures 3d vision have taken plus their description yet they are using tvs which apparently have worse ghosting then mine.
To be honest, either way im sending them back as faulty, there's no way this is right. Its more like a smoky effect over the light, i can see clearly through the glasses, and that smokey effect is only right in the centre when i look through them. This picture isnt even that amazing contrat, black to, half lit. this has nothing to do with my screen.
Found this test, according to the scale i have between 0-5% ghosting on both black and white when i look directly at centre of screen, aka VERY good. If i move my position, so that im 90 degree to the screen still, but 1 foot to the right or left off centre of my screen (to simulate the white and black boxes being on the right or left of the screen, i get around 30-40% ghosting. I contacted nvidia, but after being told to reinstall drivers etc (which i did to no avail) i decided to buy another pair and compare. They will arrive in a few days, i will let you guys know how it goes. This is definitely a problem with my glasses though, this test only helps back up my growing evidence. Check it out yourself.
Found this test, according to the scale i have between 0-5% ghosting on both black and white when i look directly at centre of screen, aka VERY good. If i move my position, so that im 90 degree to the screen still, but 1 foot to the right or left off centre of my screen (to simulate the white and black boxes being on the right or left of the screen, i get around 30-40% ghosting. I contacted nvidia, but after being told to reinstall drivers etc (which i did to no avail) i decided to buy another pair and compare. They will arrive in a few days, i will let you guys know how it goes. This is definitely a problem with my glasses though, this test only helps back up my growing evidence. Check it out yourself.
sorry for the multiple posts, lasts one today i promise. Another test for your rig.
Again when looking a direct at box with it central to my eyes, almost 0 ghosting, between 0% and 5%. the alien-ware aw2310 has almost 0% ghosting with extreme white to black. The ghosting comes from when the image is not direct centre of the glass, or aka direct centre of screen, as then the glasses let light through. Please check it out, please comment if you have the same issue, or whether you really don't have this issue.
Will post back in a couple of days now, when i have new glasses.
sorry for the multiple posts, lasts one today i promise. Another test for your rig.
Again when looking a direct at box with it central to my eyes, almost 0 ghosting, between 0% and 5%. the alien-ware aw2310 has almost 0% ghosting with extreme white to black. The ghosting comes from when the image is not direct centre of the glass, or aka direct centre of screen, as then the glasses let light through. Please check it out, please comment if you have the same issue, or whether you really don't have this issue.
Will post back in a couple of days now, when i have new glasses.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter glasses and the Nvidia ones are actualy very good.
LCD is the WORST possable panel for 3D Viewing. LCD is too slow.
Yours may be the best as far as LCD goes. But LCD is still the worst of all the technologies.
Even the Best LCD is much slower than Plasma. And Even Plasma has some minor Ghosting.
I also have a Good Quality LCD 3D monitor for Gaming. And it's very good. But it still has Bad ghosting with White on Black.
I don't use it anymore cause I don't like ghosting in gaming. That's why I use DLP now. Zero Ghosting from the screen.
Charles
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter glasses and the Nvidia ones are actualy very good.
LCD is the WORST possable panel for 3D Viewing. LCD is too slow.
Yours may be the best as far as LCD goes. But LCD is still the worst of all the technologies.
Even the Best LCD is much slower than Plasma. And Even Plasma has some minor Ghosting.
I also have a Good Quality LCD 3D monitor for Gaming. And it's very good. But it still has Bad ghosting with White on Black.
I don't use it anymore cause I don't like ghosting in gaming. That's why I use DLP now. Zero Ghosting from the screen.
Charles
The 'opaque turning less opaque on the sides' is true! Not only I saw it yesterday, but I think this is the reason all LC glasses look alike ( and not too surround friendly to say at least).
BTW you shouldn't blame the LC in glasses ( thin LC) , but the LC in TN displays (thick LC)
thin LC = fast
thick LC = slow, and full of anomalies.
____________________
thin LC display = good display
The 'opaque turning less opaque on the sides' is true! Not only I saw it yesterday, but I think this is the reason all LC glasses look alike ( and not too surround friendly to say at least).
BTW you shouldn't blame the LC in glasses ( thin LC) , but the LC in TN displays (thick LC)
thin LC = fast
thick LC = slow, and full of anomalies.
____________________
thin LC display = good display
If you look thru the edges of the Glasses they have bad ghosting.
But if you look thru them the correct way the Nvidia ones are very good.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter Glasses and the Nvidia ones are on Par with the Xpand 102's which are claimed to be the best. To test them I use a Stereo Photo viewer. A White screen on one Eye and a Black screen on the other.
As for Thick/Thin. I have always been under the impression that only effects the Viewing Angle. Didn't think it had any effect on speed.
Charles
If you look thru the edges of the Glasses they have bad ghosting.
But if you look thru them the correct way the Nvidia ones are very good.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter Glasses and the Nvidia ones are on Par with the Xpand 102's which are claimed to be the best. To test them I use a Stereo Photo viewer. A White screen on one Eye and a Black screen on the other.
As for Thick/Thin. I have always been under the impression that only effects the Viewing Angle. Didn't think it had any effect on speed.
Charles
Thick LC is called twisted nematic , "TN" .
Glasses are "OCB"
If we had "OCB" displays we 'd be in 3d heavan, cause it'd be as good as DLP, but brighter!
R&D departments know this:
http://www.cptt.com.tw/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=92
[quote]FPD Taiwan 2006
32†OCB TV[/quote] RGB LED! And you can't buy it! It's a friggin conspiracy man.
Thick LC is called twisted nematic , "TN" .
Glasses are "OCB"
If we had "OCB" displays we 'd be in 3d heavan, cause it'd be as good as DLP, but brighter!
R&D departments know this:
http://www.cptt.com.tw/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=92
RGB LED! And you can't buy it! It's a friggin conspiracy man.
If OCB is so good then why is it the Glasses have Very high Light leakage around the edges ?
I have been used to differant terms.
DSTN is Thick
TFT is Thin. "Thin Film Tranistor"
Although I am aware TFT is old and been outdated with newer technology. The 3D ready LCD monitor I have is supposed to be the latest LCD technology and it still has Bad ghosting at times.
Charles
If OCB is so good then why is it the Glasses have Very high Light leakage around the edges ?
I have been used to differant terms.
DSTN is Thick
TFT is Thin. "Thin Film Tranistor"
Although I am aware TFT is old and been outdated with newer technology. The 3D ready LCD monitor I have is supposed to be the latest LCD technology and it still has Bad ghosting at times.
Charles
And they are already making Panels that use OCB.
OCB is the 2ms ones. Very common now to find 2ms LCD panels. It has been around since 2008
http://www.toshiba.com/taec/news/media_resources/docs/OCBModeThinFilmTransistorLCDs.pdf
2mS doesn't even come close to DLP's 20uS. And 20uS is the older DLP's. Not sure what the new Full HD ones are.
Charles
And they are already making Panels that use OCB.
OCB is the 2ms ones. Very common now to find 2ms LCD panels. It has been around since 2008
http://www.toshiba.com/taec/news/media_resources/docs/OCBModeThinFilmTransistorLCDs.pdf
2mS doesn't even come close to DLP's 20uS. And 20uS is the older DLP's. Not sure what the new Full HD ones are.
Charles
Stop blaming the Majority of your Ghosting on the Glasses.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter glasses and the Nvidia ones are actualy very good.
LCD is the WORST possable panel for 3D Viewing. LCD is too slow.
Yours may be the best as far as LCD goes. But LCD is still the worst of all the technologies.
Even the Best LCD is much slower than Plasma. And Even Plasma has some minor Ghosting.
I also have a Good Quality LCD 3D monitor for Gaming. And it's very good. But it still has Bad ghosting with White on Black.
I don't use it anymore cause I don't like ghosting in gaming. That's why I use DLP now. Zero Ghosting from the screen.
Charles
[/quote]
Thing is dude, i AM using them as they should be. Problem is, for example, a window on the right of my screen in batman, is towards the nose of my glasses and at a slight angle. That slight angle causes TERRIBLE ghosting. When i look at the ghosting (so its at a 90 degree angle to my head) it vanishes completely. I have the depth turned up. Turning it down helps with the problem, as the images aren't separated as much. This is surely 100% because of the glasses and not the LCD.
I don't know how to contact nvidia, so im going to try live chat when it opens later. I really get the feeling people on here arnt being honest on here though. Either we are all sharing the same problem, or i have faulty glasses as do some others. I LOVE this tech, im not trying to put down nvidia. Im pointing out a TRUTH that i am experiencing. Just because we own tech doesn't mean we have to defend it to its grave, im just pointing out that with my glasses the ghosting is largely caused by the glasses not blocking out the light at slight angles (aka right and left of my screen when im looking straight ahead.) Hopefully this information can be used to improve the glasses, such as perhaps able to block light at a larger angle via curving the glasses or something. I appreciate LCD response isnt that great, and so there will always be some black white contrast ghosting until thats fixed, but that is NOT what im talking about. Im talking about i see 2 windows in batman, where there should only be 1 when the image is to the right of left of screen and im looking straight ahead. If i look to where the window is the ghosting goes. That has nothing to do with my screen.
If other people aren't experiencing this, fair enough, and good for you. you have better glasses then me, which means i wil get mine replaced... but i am NOT making this up, and it definitely points to the glasses being at fault not the screen.
To give the best example i can\
when sat 3 feet away from 23 inch monitor, wearing glasses on face as normal, looking direct centre of screen, ghosting will occur on any object that is outside of 1cm from centre towards nose on glasses, increasingly getting worse until its 100% ghosting at the extreme
. sat at this distance, the very far right of my screen is at the extreme of my left eye nose position. he left of my screen is at the extreme nose point of my right eye. AKA serious ghosting on any object on left or right of the screen.
And so, why your telling me to not blame this on my glasses is beyond me, the fact Andrew hasn't commented would suggest that the problem is known about but they don't want to publicly admit it, as it could harm the brand image. I will talk to an nvidia support later, if it is my glasses at fault i will report back.
Stop blaming the Majority of your Ghosting on the Glasses.
I have tested a number of differant brands of Active Shutter glasses and the Nvidia ones are actualy very good.
LCD is the WORST possable panel for 3D Viewing. LCD is too slow.
Yours may be the best as far as LCD goes. But LCD is still the worst of all the technologies.
Even the Best LCD is much slower than Plasma. And Even Plasma has some minor Ghosting.
I also have a Good Quality LCD 3D monitor for Gaming. And it's very good. But it still has Bad ghosting with White on Black.
I don't use it anymore cause I don't like ghosting in gaming. That's why I use DLP now. Zero Ghosting from the screen.
Charles
Thing is dude, i AM using them as they should be. Problem is, for example, a window on the right of my screen in batman, is towards the nose of my glasses and at a slight angle. That slight angle causes TERRIBLE ghosting. When i look at the ghosting (so its at a 90 degree angle to my head) it vanishes completely. I have the depth turned up. Turning it down helps with the problem, as the images aren't separated as much. This is surely 100% because of the glasses and not the LCD.
I don't know how to contact nvidia, so im going to try live chat when it opens later. I really get the feeling people on here arnt being honest on here though. Either we are all sharing the same problem, or i have faulty glasses as do some others. I LOVE this tech, im not trying to put down nvidia. Im pointing out a TRUTH that i am experiencing. Just because we own tech doesn't mean we have to defend it to its grave, im just pointing out that with my glasses the ghosting is largely caused by the glasses not blocking out the light at slight angles (aka right and left of my screen when im looking straight ahead.) Hopefully this information can be used to improve the glasses, such as perhaps able to block light at a larger angle via curving the glasses or something. I appreciate LCD response isnt that great, and so there will always be some black white contrast ghosting until thats fixed, but that is NOT what im talking about. Im talking about i see 2 windows in batman, where there should only be 1 when the image is to the right of left of screen and im looking straight ahead. If i look to where the window is the ghosting goes. That has nothing to do with my screen.
If other people aren't experiencing this, fair enough, and good for you. you have better glasses then me, which means i wil get mine replaced... but i am NOT making this up, and it definitely points to the glasses being at fault not the screen.
To give the best example i can\
when sat 3 feet away from 23 inch monitor, wearing glasses on face as normal, looking direct centre of screen, ghosting will occur on any object that is outside of 1cm from centre towards nose on glasses, increasingly getting worse until its 100% ghosting at the extreme
. sat at this distance, the very far right of my screen is at the extreme of my left eye nose position. he left of my screen is at the extreme nose point of my right eye. AKA serious ghosting on any object on left or right of the screen.
And so, why your telling me to not blame this on my glasses is beyond me, the fact Andrew hasn't commented would suggest that the problem is known about but they don't want to publicly admit it, as it could harm the brand image. I will talk to an nvidia support later, if it is my glasses at fault i will report back.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
(Well i have no window ghosting anyway)
(Well i have no window ghosting anyway)
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
And they are already making Panels that use OCB.
[/quote]
hell no! OCB is about the backlighting method (RGB instead of white), show me RGB backlit consumer LCD, you can't .
And they are already making Panels that use OCB.
hell no! OCB is about the backlighting method (RGB instead of white), show me RGB backlit consumer LCD, you can't .
http://3dvision-blog.com/stereo-3d-display-crosstalk-test-photos-with-some-results/
with this, i can see reasonably clearly the picture in the wrong eye. With the glasses on, there is only a very small dark blob in the centre that's any dark, and its not regular shape and not realy very dark. It seems mine are worse then any of the pictures 3d vision have taken plus their description yet they are using tvs which apparently have worse ghosting then mine.
To be honest, either way im sending them back as faulty, there's no way this is right. Its more like a smoky effect over the light, i can see clearly through the glasses, and that smokey effect is only right in the centre when i look through them. This picture isnt even that amazing contrat, black to, half lit. this has nothing to do with my screen.
http://3dvision-blog.com/stereo-3d-display-crosstalk-test-photos-with-some-results/
with this, i can see reasonably clearly the picture in the wrong eye. With the glasses on, there is only a very small dark blob in the centre that's any dark, and its not regular shape and not realy very dark. It seems mine are worse then any of the pictures 3d vision have taken plus their description yet they are using tvs which apparently have worse ghosting then mine.
To be honest, either way im sending them back as faulty, there's no way this is right. Its more like a smoky effect over the light, i can see clearly through the glasses, and that smokey effect is only right in the centre when i look through them. This picture isnt even that amazing contrat, black to, half lit. this has nothing to do with my screen.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
Again when looking a direct at box with it central to my eyes, almost 0 ghosting, between 0% and 5%. the alien-ware aw2310 has almost 0% ghosting with extreme white to black. The ghosting comes from when the image is not direct centre of the glass, or aka direct centre of screen, as then the glasses let light through. Please check it out, please comment if you have the same issue, or whether you really don't have this issue.
Will post back in a couple of days now, when i have new glasses.
Again when looking a direct at box with it central to my eyes, almost 0 ghosting, between 0% and 5%. the alien-ware aw2310 has almost 0% ghosting with extreme white to black. The ghosting comes from when the image is not direct centre of the glass, or aka direct centre of screen, as then the glasses let light through. Please check it out, please comment if you have the same issue, or whether you really don't have this issue.
Will post back in a couple of days now, when i have new glasses.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti