How important is CPU performance for 3d vision?
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RAGEdemon do the chips with more cores than 4 perform worse in 3d vision scenario than the 4 core chips ? so from the next bactch the Intel Core i7-7740X is the best choise for 3d vision usage ? im just wondering should i buy my next cpu as a 4 or more cores as i also do sometimes video edit ect. things that could benefit from higher core count
RAGEdemon do the chips with more cores than 4 perform worse in 3d vision scenario than the 4 core chips ?
so from the next bactch the Intel Core i7-7740X is the best choise for 3d vision usage ?

im just wondering should i buy my next cpu as a 4 or more cores as i also do sometimes video edit ect.
things that could benefit from higher core count

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Posted 06/19/2017 09:10 PM   
Unfortunately, the answer at the moment is yes; chips with more cores than 4 add inter-core latency and intrinsically have a lower clock speed, therefore lower performance for 'not-well' multi-threaded games. Example, gamersnexus review of 4 core 7700k@ $330 vs 10 core 7900k @ $1000: (watch half way onwards for hard benchmarks) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRgJ79TcCO0 In the future however, if/when the CPU performance bug is fixed and/or games start utilising a huge number of cores more optimally, I would wager that in that future timeframe, the more core CPU would be better for gaming performance. I guess it depends on a number of factors personal to yourself. For example, if you don't intend to upgrade for the next 10 years, I'd go for >4 cores. If you intend to upgrade in 3-5 years, then I would go for a 4 core at the moment, and then test the waters again at that point. Whatever you choose, it looks like a de-lid and max OC should definitely be done. My 2 cents :)
Unfortunately, the answer at the moment is yes; chips with more cores than 4 add inter-core latency and intrinsically have a lower clock speed, therefore lower performance for 'not-well' multi-threaded games.

Example, gamersnexus review of 4 core 7700k@ $330 vs 10 core 7900k @ $1000: (watch half way onwards for hard benchmarks)



In the future however, if/when the CPU performance bug is fixed and/or games start utilising a huge number of cores more optimally, I would wager that in that future timeframe, the more core CPU would be better for gaming performance.


I guess it depends on a number of factors personal to yourself. For example, if you don't intend to upgrade for the next 10 years, I'd go for >4 cores. If you intend to upgrade in 3-5 years, then I would go for a 4 core at the moment, and then test the waters again at that point.

Whatever you choose, it looks like a de-lid and max OC should definitely be done.

My 2 cents :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 06/19/2017 09:48 PM   
Maybe the next Coffee Lake CPU will be the top piece for gamers. It's supposed to be manufactured with the 14nm++ process. I hope this process will add more performance like Kaby Lake made with his 14nm+ against the Skylake 14nm. I was about to build a 7820K PC, but finally there is not so much gains against 7700K it seems. Still waiting for a good review from the best reviewers like Hardware.fr; Tomhardware one is not so bad: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-skylake-x,5092-6.html By the way, it's seems that the 7740X is better than the 7700K: https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-and-core-i7-7740x-cpu-review?page=8 Buying a 4C / 8Thread is not a good choice in my opinion if you plan to keep it for a long time. 4 Cores can be a limit sometime, with a 7700K sometimes close to 100% CPU usage and weaker constant framerate than the CPUs with more cores. I suppose the 6C/12T will be better for futureproof and really hope a little step-up against 7700K in performance. All depend on your needs, budget and patience.
Maybe the next Coffee Lake CPU will be the top piece for gamers.

It's supposed to be manufactured with the 14nm++ process.
I hope this process will add more performance like Kaby Lake made with his 14nm+ against the Skylake 14nm.

I was about to build a 7820K PC, but finally there is not so much gains against 7700K it seems.
Still waiting for a good review from the best reviewers like Hardware.fr; Tomhardware one is not so bad: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-skylake-x,5092-6.html

By the way, it's seems that the 7740X is better than the 7700K:
https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-and-core-i7-7740x-cpu-review?page=8

Buying a 4C / 8Thread is not a good choice in my opinion if you plan to keep it for a long time.
4 Cores can be a limit sometime, with a 7700K sometimes close to 100% CPU usage and weaker constant framerate than the CPUs with more cores.

I suppose the 6C/12T will be better for futureproof and really hope a little step-up against 7700K in performance.

All depend on your needs, budget and patience.

Posted 06/19/2017 11:30 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Unfortunately, the answer at the moment is yes; chips with more cores than 4 add inter-core latency and intrinsically have a lower clock speed, therefore lower performance for 'not-well' multi-threaded games. Example, gamersnexus review of 4 core 7700k@ $330 vs 10 core 7900k @ $1000: (watch half way onwards for hard benchmarks) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRgJ79TcCO0 In the future however, if/when the CPU performance bug is fixed and/or games start utilising a huge number of cores more optimally, I would wager that in that future timeframe, the more core CPU would be better for gaming performance. I guess it depends on a number of factors personal to yourself. For example, if you don't intend to upgrade for the next 10 years, I'd go for >4 cores. If you intend to upgrade in 3-5 years, then I would go for a 4 core at the moment, and then test the waters again at that point. Whatever you choose, it looks like a de-lid and max OC should definitely be done. My 2 cents :) [/quote] Not the additional cores are the actual problem problem, but the lower frequency/core. Of course the Frequency is highly related with core count. For current 3D gaming you need the get a last generation processor that allows you to get the highest frequency/core, as we saw even in games that make use of multiple cores in 2D, struggle in 3D due to 3Dvision limitations..
RAGEdemon said:Unfortunately, the answer at the moment is yes; chips with more cores than 4 add inter-core latency and intrinsically have a lower clock speed, therefore lower performance for 'not-well' multi-threaded games.

Example, gamersnexus review of 4 core 7700k@ $330 vs 10 core 7900k @ $1000: (watch half way onwards for hard benchmarks)



In the future however, if/when the CPU performance bug is fixed and/or games start utilising a huge number of cores more optimally, I would wager that in that future timeframe, the more core CPU would be better for gaming performance.


I guess it depends on a number of factors personal to yourself. For example, if you don't intend to upgrade for the next 10 years, I'd go for >4 cores. If you intend to upgrade in 3-5 years, then I would go for a 4 core at the moment, and then test the waters again at that point.

Whatever you choose, it looks like a de-lid and max OC should definitely be done.

My 2 cents :)



Not the additional cores are the actual problem problem, but the lower frequency/core. Of course the Frequency is highly related with core count.
For current 3D gaming you need the get a last generation processor that allows you to get the highest frequency/core, as we saw even in games that make use of multiple cores in 2D, struggle in 3D due to 3Dvision limitations..

Intel i7 8086K
Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti Aorus Extreme
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TV LG OLED65E6V
Avegant Glyph
Windows 10 64bits

Posted 06/20/2017 05:14 AM   
When I had my i7 6700k disabling hyperthreading helped in every single game in 3D Vision. I did not see any improvement with hyperthreading on, but the rather the opposite - lower averages and minimums with the games I tried at the time : Doom, Crysis 3, Crysis 2,The Technomancer, Shadowbane (with helifax's wrapper too).
When I had my i7 6700k disabling hyperthreading helped in every single game in 3D Vision. I did not see any improvement with hyperthreading on, but the rather the opposite - lower averages and minimums with the games I tried at the time : Doom, Crysis 3, Crysis 2,The Technomancer, Shadowbane (with helifax's wrapper too).

Windows 10 64 bit, i5 6600k 4.6 Ghz , ASUS Z170-P D3, 16GB DDR3 2400Mhz CL 10 , 980 Ti , BenQ XL2411Z 3D Monitor, Optoma UHD 40 DLP 3D Projector , 135 Elite Screens M135UWH2 1.1 gain

Posted 06/20/2017 12:22 PM   
Im playing the waiting game. So basicly its better choise to buy more than 4 core processor if the clock is high enough. Like 8 core 5ghz chip.,, that offcourse does not exist yet. I think the cpu count limit has to change as its clear that the processors do not evolve.
Im playing the waiting game.
So basicly its better choise to buy more than 4 core processor if the clock is high enough.
Like 8 core 5ghz chip.,, that offcourse does not exist yet.

I think the cpu count limit has to change as its clear that the processors do not evolve.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 06/20/2017 02:23 PM   
Im running a 6 core 5820k....any thing I can tweak to get better 3D Vision performance?
Im running a 6 core 5820k....any thing I can tweak to get better 3D Vision performance?

Gaming Rig 1

i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO

Gaming Rig 2
My new build

Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2

Posted 06/20/2017 02:47 PM   
Perhaps they need to put 2 CPUs on consumer motherboards and split the workload, like they have on work stations? Maybe dedicating one to all the non gaming BS or running them together like SLI. Although you would think that something like that new AMD Threadripper that has 16 cores with 32 threads using SMT and 64 lanes of PCIe, would simply curb stomp any game that came across it's path. On the upside, GPUs are doing more of the work and according to Mr. Huang, they will be 1000 x faster by 2025. He recently commented on Moore's law and CPUs and says that the GPU is the future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PGIWJIvwzI Of course by 2025, new games will only be available to play in the cloud with online subscriptions :P
Perhaps they need to put 2 CPUs on consumer motherboards and split the workload, like they have on work stations?

Maybe dedicating one to all the non gaming BS or running them together like SLI.

Although you would think that something like that new AMD Threadripper that has 16 cores with 32 threads using SMT and 64 lanes of PCIe, would simply curb stomp any game that came across it's path.

On the upside, GPUs are doing more of the work and according to Mr. Huang, they will be 1000 x faster by 2025. He recently commented on Moore's law and CPUs and says that the GPU is the future.



Of course by 2025, new games will only be available to play in the cloud with online subscriptions :P

Posted 06/20/2017 03:20 PM   
[quote="clammy"]Im running a 6 core 5820k....any thing I can tweak to get better 3D Vision performance?[/quote] There is potential. The more the cores, the more they have to talk to each other to keep synchronised, and the less cache they have to share. This causes latency so even at the same clock, a lower core count CPU is better for gaming if the game cannot take advantage of those extra cores. A dual CPU machine is even worse, because the synchronisation has to take place off the CPU which adds even more latency at a significant level. 5820k has a soldered IHS which is great. [Also, plz update your sig.] 1. Disable all cores but one and then overclock that core as high as you can. 2. Then move onto the next core. After 6 overclocking sessions, you will know which cores are the best overclockers. Enable the 4 best cores and disable worst 2, and overclock that cluster of 4 to as high as it will go. This should get you ~few hundred MHz compared to having all cores enabled. At this point, I would benchmark 3D vision games with all cores on vs only 4 cores vs HT off; making sure to keep the GPU as low usage as possible, say by using a resolution of 640x480. Most games are still GPU limited so unless you ensure this, you will find no difference in CPU settings change. If the difference is worth it, you might want to permanently disable the cores in favour of better OC. It might give you ~5% improvement. That might not be much but it can be the difference between non-synchronised high latency and stuttery 54fps vs. sync'd low latency silk smooth 60fps. It's purely a personal choice.
clammy said:Im running a 6 core 5820k....any thing I can tweak to get better 3D Vision performance?


There is potential. The more the cores, the more they have to talk to each other to keep synchronised, and the less cache they have to share. This causes latency so even at the same clock, a lower core count CPU is better for gaming if the game cannot take advantage of those extra cores.

A dual CPU machine is even worse, because the synchronisation has to take place off the CPU which adds even more latency at a significant level.

5820k has a soldered IHS which is great. [Also, plz update your sig.]

1. Disable all cores but one and then overclock that core as high as you can.
2. Then move onto the next core.

After 6 overclocking sessions, you will know which cores are the best overclockers. Enable the 4 best cores and disable worst 2, and overclock that cluster of 4 to as high as it will go.

This should get you ~few hundred MHz compared to having all cores enabled.

At this point, I would benchmark 3D vision games with all cores on vs only 4 cores vs HT off; making sure to keep the GPU as low usage as possible, say by using a resolution of 640x480. Most games are still GPU limited so unless you ensure this, you will find no difference in CPU settings change.

If the difference is worth it, you might want to permanently disable the cores in favour of better OC. It might give you ~5% improvement. That might not be much but it can be the difference between non-synchronised high latency and stuttery 54fps vs. sync'd low latency silk smooth 60fps.

It's purely a personal choice.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 06/20/2017 03:29 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"][quote="clammy"]Im running a 6 core 5820k....any thing I can tweak to get better 3D Vision performance?[/quote] There is potential. The more the cores, the more they have to talk to each other to keep synchronised, and the less cache they have to share. This causes latency so even at the same clock, a lower core count CPU is better for gaming if the game cannot take advantage of those extra cores. A dual CPU machine is even worse, because the synchronisation has to take place off the CPU which adds even more latency at a significant level. 5820k has a soldered IHS which is great. [Also, plz update your sig.] 1. Disable all cores but one and then overclock that core as high as you can. 2. Then move onto the next core. After 6 overclocking sessions, you will know which cores are the best overclockers. Enable the 4 best cores and disable worst 2, and overclock that cluster of 4 to as high as it will go. This should get you ~few hundred MHz compared to having all cores enabled. At this point, I would benchmark 3D vision games with all cores on vs only 4 cores vs HT off; making sure to keep the GPU as low usage as possible, say by using a resolution of 640x480. Most games are still GPU limited so unless you ensure this, you will find no difference in CPU settings change. If the difference is worth it, you might want to permanently disable the cores in favour of better OC. It might give you ~5% improvement. That might not be much but it can be the difference between non-synchronised high latency and stuttery 54fps vs. sync'd low latency silk smooth 60fps. It's purely a personal choice. [/quote] Thanks! As for updating my signature with my new machine setup,Ive tried and tried. These forums have been jacked up for the longest time and I never got a reply about not being able to access the change signature feature. I gave up!
RAGEdemon said:
clammy said:Im running a 6 core 5820k....any thing I can tweak to get better 3D Vision performance?


There is potential. The more the cores, the more they have to talk to each other to keep synchronised, and the less cache they have to share. This causes latency so even at the same clock, a lower core count CPU is better for gaming if the game cannot take advantage of those extra cores.

A dual CPU machine is even worse, because the synchronisation has to take place off the CPU which adds even more latency at a significant level.

5820k has a soldered IHS which is great. [Also, plz update your sig.]

1. Disable all cores but one and then overclock that core as high as you can.
2. Then move onto the next core.

After 6 overclocking sessions, you will know which cores are the best overclockers. Enable the 4 best cores and disable worst 2, and overclock that cluster of 4 to as high as it will go.

This should get you ~few hundred MHz compared to having all cores enabled.

At this point, I would benchmark 3D vision games with all cores on vs only 4 cores vs HT off; making sure to keep the GPU as low usage as possible, say by using a resolution of 640x480. Most games are still GPU limited so unless you ensure this, you will find no difference in CPU settings change.

If the difference is worth it, you might want to permanently disable the cores in favour of better OC. It might give you ~5% improvement. That might not be much but it can be the difference between non-synchronised high latency and stuttery 54fps vs. sync'd low latency silk smooth 60fps.

It's purely a personal choice.







Thanks!

As for updating my signature with my new machine setup,Ive tried and tried.
These forums have been jacked up for the longest time and I never got a reply about not being able to access the change signature feature.
I gave up!

Gaming Rig 1

i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO

Gaming Rig 2
My new build

Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2

Posted 06/20/2017 04:33 PM   
Go into your account settings. At the signature section window, on the top right hand side, there is a pen. click that and edit sig to your heart's content :) If it's not working, try a different browser. Stock EDGE or IE should work.
Go into your account settings. At the signature section window, on the top right hand side, there is a pen. click that and edit sig to your heart's content :)

If it's not working, try a different browser. Stock EDGE or IE should work.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 06/20/2017 05:07 PM   
For changing signature you must log out, otherwise forun does not accept your password. Log out, delete geforce cookies, login and change your signature.
For changing signature you must log out, otherwise forun does not accept your password. Log out, delete geforce cookies, login and change your signature.

Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z

Posted 06/21/2017 12:59 AM   
[quote="lacuna"]For changing signature you must log out, otherwise forun does not accept your password. Log out, delete geforce cookies, login and change your signature.[/quote] Gotcha!
lacuna said:For changing signature you must log out, otherwise forun does not accept your password. Log out, delete geforce cookies, login and change your signature.


Gotcha!

Gaming Rig 1

i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO

Gaming Rig 2
My new build

Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2

Posted 06/21/2017 11:34 PM   
I can find ragedemons thread about the cpu bottleneck bug, but was it fixed with the latest drivers????? http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5447844&postcount=29
I can find ragedemons thread about the cpu bottleneck bug, but was it fixed with the latest drivers?????


http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5447844&postcount=29

Posted 06/29/2017 06:54 PM   
Test/benchmarks need to be done..it's too good to be true actually.
Test/benchmarks need to be done..it's too good to be true actually.

i5 4670K 4.4 Ghz H2O, G.skill 16GB @2.4 Ghz C10, 2xGTX970 G1 SLI, AOC G2460PG, G-sync+3D Vision 2, Win 7x64(ssd), Games on RAID-0

Posted 06/29/2017 08:07 PM   
  19 / 22    
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