3D Vision Community based Gamefix CrowdFunding
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As far as I've read Unity is not very smooth to fix. I don't know about others but I feel proud regarding the donations I've recieved so far. It has helped cross many hurdles so far. One problem is that I can't promise any delivery which makes paying for fixes fairly uncomfortable. The donations should encourage progress but not demand a final result. I can't use kickstarter because I'm in Sweden but even if I could I would not be able to guarantee any result. The question is not how much you are prepared to pay for a fix but rather how much you are prepared to gamble on someoone fixing the game. We also have the issue of what to do with the final fix? Should one person pay a huge sum and everyone else get it for free. I like the idea of humble payments, basically pay what you want just like humblebundles as not everyone can afford a super expensive fix.
As far as I've read Unity is not very smooth to fix.

I don't know about others but I feel proud regarding the donations I've recieved so far.
It has helped cross many hurdles so far. One problem is that I can't promise any delivery which makes paying for fixes fairly uncomfortable. The donations should encourage progress but not demand a final result. I can't use kickstarter because I'm in Sweden but even if I could I would not be able to guarantee any result.

The question is not how much you are prepared to pay for a fix but rather how much you are prepared to gamble on someoone fixing the game.

We also have the issue of what to do with the final fix?
Should one person pay a huge sum and everyone else get it for free.
I like the idea of humble payments, basically pay what you want just like humblebundles as not everyone can afford a super expensive fix.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#16
Posted 02/05/2014 04:10 PM   
I've also heard Unity titles are hard to fix, that's why I'm thinking it might need a bounty for anyone to work on it. As for how I'd distribute that, I think it would depend on who was interested in doing it. If there was more than one person that would complicate things, but otherwise I'm aware it would need to be a bit of a gamble, as I understand there are no guaranteed fixes, and every game has it's own complications. If someone (experienced) offers to try, I'd be happy to pay up front with the understanding that they might fail if it turns out to be impossible. In terms of what to do with the final fix, my preference would be to release it into the community for everyone to enjoy, however I don't object to talented individuals wanting to profit from their hard work. If I was to put a bounty up for the creation of a fix (and someone was to succeed with it), I would have no problem with that person selling the fix for a reasonable fee if they wanted to do so.
I've also heard Unity titles are hard to fix, that's why I'm thinking it might need a bounty for anyone to work on it.

As for how I'd distribute that, I think it would depend on who was interested in doing it. If there was more than one person that would complicate things, but otherwise I'm aware it would need to be a bit of a gamble, as I understand there are no guaranteed fixes, and every game has it's own complications. If someone (experienced) offers to try, I'd be happy to pay up front with the understanding that they might fail if it turns out to be impossible.

In terms of what to do with the final fix, my preference would be to release it into the community for everyone to enjoy, however I don't object to talented individuals wanting to profit from their hard work. If I was to put a bounty up for the creation of a fix (and someone was to succeed with it), I would have no problem with that person selling the fix for a reasonable fee if they wanted to do so.

#17
Posted 02/05/2014 04:23 PM   
This implies a portfolio of many fixes but I've been imagining a system where you would gain access to all fixes as a subscription base model and pay somethink like 99SEk/$15. My point is to keep it affordable thus cheaper than WoW subscription. A fix might be "expensive" to perform but recouperated over a few months. On top of that I imagine that you can steer which game is chosen by bigger donations. This would handle existing and upcoming fixes. This is not necessary a Community solution but rather how I would go about it personally. If I can tell I'm unable to fix a game I would reimburse Everything except the unavoidable starting cost. This should mean that you either get a fix or most of the money back. If someone else fixes the game for a fee or for free that is fine by me. I might be a bit lost but I'm at the crossroad where wrapper coding meet GPU coding and getting some experience on the GPU side is vital to improving the wrapper. Unless I can use it myself I will never be able to release the wrapper and from what I can tell there is a need for a dx11 wrapper.
This implies a portfolio of many fixes but I've been imagining a system where you would gain access to all fixes as a subscription base model and pay somethink like 99SEk/$15.

My point is to keep it affordable thus cheaper than WoW subscription. A fix might be "expensive" to perform but recouperated over a few months. On top of that I imagine that you can steer which game is chosen by bigger donations.

This would handle existing and upcoming fixes. This is not necessary a Community solution but rather how I would go about it personally. If I can tell I'm unable to fix a game I would reimburse Everything except the unavoidable starting cost. This should mean that you either get a fix or most of the money back. If someone else fixes the game for a fee or for free that is fine by me.

I might be a bit lost but I'm at the crossroad where wrapper coding meet GPU coding and getting some experience on the GPU side is vital to improving the wrapper. Unless I can use it myself I will never be able to release the wrapper and from what I can tell there is a need for a dx11 wrapper.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#18
Posted 02/05/2014 04:43 PM   
Any thoughts on making a Video Tutorial showing step by step how to fix games. I know there is already a written tutorial. Unfortunately , for knuckle heads like me, I actually need to see what is going on. I'll tell you what, If someone makes a full video tutorial showing step by step how to do it, I will definitely do my part to help fix games, you can count on it. I have made over half a dozen profiles for tridef3D and even though its 10X harder to make game fixes for Nvidia 3D vision , I will absolutely take a serious crack at it. for real P.S - I have fully working Profiles for games that aren't even out yet. Some of them took me hours to fix, but I'm a stubborn bastard when it comes to these things.
Any thoughts on making a Video Tutorial showing step by step how to fix games.

I know there is already a written tutorial. Unfortunately , for knuckle heads like me, I actually need to see what is going on.


I'll tell you what, If someone makes a full video tutorial showing step by step how to do it, I will definitely do my part to help fix games, you can count on it.

I have made over half a dozen profiles for tridef3D and even though its 10X harder to make game fixes for Nvidia 3D vision , I will absolutely take a serious crack at it. for real


P.S - I have fully working Profiles for games that aren't even out yet. Some of them took me hours to fix, but I'm a stubborn bastard when it comes to these things.

#19
Posted 02/05/2014 05:02 PM   
I think a subscription model could be reasonable, however it would also be difficult logistically. If I have a subscription, are you obliged to fix X games per month? What's to stop me signing up, downloading all the fixes and then cancelling my subscription? How is the payment handled? It's not impossible, but there would be a lot to work out before it would be a viable model, IMO.
I think a subscription model could be reasonable, however it would also be difficult logistically. If I have a subscription, are you obliged to fix X games per month? What's to stop me signing up, downloading all the fixes and then cancelling my subscription? How is the payment handled?

It's not impossible, but there would be a lot to work out before it would be a viable model, IMO.

#20
Posted 02/05/2014 05:13 PM   
Recostar, have you tried the new guide on the Helixmod site? It seems pretty comprehensive. Fixing games often takes days of work, and every game is different - I'm not sure how viable a video tutorial would be.
Recostar, have you tried the new guide on the Helixmod site? It seems pretty comprehensive. Fixing games often takes days of work, and every game is different - I'm not sure how viable a video tutorial would be.

#21
Posted 02/05/2014 05:15 PM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Recostar, have you tried the new guide on the Helixmod site? It seems pretty comprehensive. Fixing games often takes days of work, and every game is different - I'm not sure how viable a video tutorial would be.[/quote] tbh, I never really took the time to understand it. I'll take a look at it today and see if I can squeeze a couple neurons together to hopefully grasp it.
Pirateguybrush said:Recostar, have you tried the new guide on the Helixmod site? It seems pretty comprehensive. Fixing games often takes days of work, and every game is different - I'm not sure how viable a video tutorial would be.


tbh, I never really took the time to understand it.
I'll take a look at it today and see if I can squeeze a couple neurons together to hopefully grasp it.

#22
Posted 02/05/2014 05:40 PM   
Just so everyone is clear - I won't charge for fixes, so if someone else does, come to me first and I'll see what I can do... Like I said, I am fine with the donation/shared pot idea, but the notion of selling a fix individually so that *only* some people can use the fix leaves a particularly bad taste in my mouth. This is my big sore point with all this. That is not Community. Another aspect of this that is 'anti-community' is that if someone is charging for a fix, who's going to help them when they get stuck? I doubt anyone will - why should they? This might lead to *less* games getting fixed, not more - a 5 minute chat with someone else can solve a blocker problem that might otherwise takes weeks, or never get solved. @PirateguyBrush This applies also to Dreamfall Chapters - I will go for it when it comes out, and you can have it if it works out, for free, no 'bounty' required. But seriously, no amount of bounty you can offer is suddenly going to produce people who can magically do this stuff, let alone the specific game you ask for. I don't want to sound like a dick (though I might end up doing so) but it takes ages to learn this stuff to the extent that one can pick and choose what to work on - to start with you work on games you have a chance in hell of fixing: the tail wags the dog, so to speak. Myself and Eqzitara do the most fixes nowadays (and DHR) but (a) we have been doing this for quite a while now (nearly a year for me, and nearly 2 years for him) (b) we regularly work together on problems, ideas and solutions, (c) almost every game we learn something new, (d) there are *loads* of games we don't know how to fix. Perhaps the idea is that if sufficient money is offered, then someone might be inspired to learn this stuff? Well they will still have the learning curve, and you would need to offer a massive amount of cash once they realize what is involved, and they will almost certainly drop it if the money dries up. Anyway, I've said my bit :-)
Just so everyone is clear - I won't charge for fixes, so if someone else does, come to me first and I'll see what I can do... Like I said, I am fine with the donation/shared pot idea, but the notion of selling a fix individually so that *only* some people can use the fix leaves a particularly bad taste in my mouth. This is my big sore point with all this. That is not Community. Another aspect of this that is 'anti-community' is that if someone is charging for a fix, who's going to help them when they get stuck? I doubt anyone will - why should they? This might lead to *less* games getting fixed, not more - a 5 minute chat with someone else can solve a blocker problem that might otherwise takes weeks, or never get solved.

@PirateguyBrush This applies also to Dreamfall Chapters - I will go for it when it comes out, and you can have it if it works out, for free, no 'bounty' required. But seriously, no amount of bounty you can offer is suddenly going to produce people who can magically do this stuff, let alone the specific game you ask for. I don't want to sound like a dick (though I might end up doing so) but it takes ages to learn this stuff to the extent that one can pick and choose what to work on - to start with you work on games you have a chance in hell of fixing: the tail wags the dog, so to speak. Myself and Eqzitara do the most fixes nowadays (and DHR) but (a) we have been doing this for quite a while now (nearly a year for me, and nearly 2 years for him) (b) we regularly work together on problems, ideas and solutions, (c) almost every game we learn something new, (d) there are *loads* of games we don't know how to fix. Perhaps the idea is that if sufficient money is offered, then someone might be inspired to learn this stuff? Well they will still have the learning curve, and you would need to offer a massive amount of cash once they realize what is involved, and they will almost certainly drop it if the money dries up.

Anyway, I've said my bit :-)

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#23
Posted 02/05/2014 09:09 PM   
I tried to respond but failed to find the Words. I'm pro donations. Against them demanding a timeline or even success. Pro collaborations. Pro encouragement. Writing the wrapper makes it extremely lonely. I mean who will help me when I get stuck? I'm pretty much on my own. If you are stuck for more than a week how will you proceed without help. I found donations very helpful in conquering hurdles all alone. I'm hoping that as my wrapper matures I will become a bigger part of the community. Best of all is to keep collaborating on fixes while leaving the door open for people to collect donations as appreciation. This is a hobby which can be fairly demanding but lets avoid bringing in money in a way that turns it into work.
I tried to respond but failed to find the Words.

I'm pro donations. Against them demanding a timeline or even success.
Pro collaborations. Pro encouragement. Writing the wrapper makes it extremely lonely.

I mean who will help me when I get stuck?

I'm pretty much on my own.

If you are stuck for more than a week how will you proceed without help.

I found donations very helpful in conquering hurdles all alone.

I'm hoping that as my wrapper matures I will become a bigger part of the community.
Best of all is to keep collaborating on fixes while leaving the door open for people to collect donations as appreciation.

This is a hobby which can be fairly demanding but lets avoid bringing in money in a way that turns it into work.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#24
Posted 02/05/2014 11:38 PM   
^^ Agreed :-)
^^ Agreed :-)

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#25
Posted 02/06/2014 12:33 AM   
There is nothing wrong in giving donations and receiving donations on one's free will, but I completely understand the rationale of why some are against gifts or donations. Obligation will kick in and formal donations and crowding funding sounds like some kind of business model. This is a hobby. Money unfortunately puts a wrench in things. I do appreciate the work that has been done by many of the more experienced and talented folks here, but a couple of personal things I stick by are A.)I never put expectation on anyone. B.) If a game gets fixed, great. C.) If a game gets an incomplete or partial fix, great. D.) If not, I will play something else. The only time I have right to complain is when I pay for something and it is not fit for purpose. For anyone who is pro donation, don't get me wrong, I am not against, I just somehow feel it doesn't belong here. My two cents and no pun intended!
There is nothing wrong in giving donations and receiving donations on one's free will, but I completely understand the rationale of why some are against gifts or donations. Obligation will kick in and formal donations and crowding funding sounds like some kind of business model. This is a hobby. Money unfortunately puts a wrench in things. I do appreciate the work that has been done by many of the more experienced and talented folks here, but a couple of personal things I stick by are A.)I never put expectation on anyone. B.) If a game gets fixed, great. C.) If a game gets an incomplete or partial fix, great. D.) If not, I will play something else. The only time I have right to complain is when I pay for something and it is not fit for purpose. For anyone who is pro donation, don't get me wrong, I am not against, I just somehow feel it doesn't belong here. My two cents and no pun intended!

#26
Posted 02/06/2014 01:10 AM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Recostar, have you tried the new guide on the Helixmod site? It seems pretty comprehensive. Fixing games often takes days of work, and every game is different - I'm not sure how viable a video tutorial would be.[/quote]Just wanted to clarify that the 'fixing' page I put up on HelixMod is not exactly a tutorial. Games are too varied to have an exact tutorial, so I took the tack of trying to combine all the prior tutorials and tidbits. Not gonna lie though, it's still going to be hard, all of this stuff is super arcane. However, if you understand everyhing in that list of links, you will certainly be able to make fixes. Making simple fixes like disabling a shader is doable by anyone. Making interesting fixes like moving HUD to depth is doable by most people. Making hard fixes like broken shadows is going to require that you understand how shader graphics work at a basic level. Even being a programmer is not enough here, you'll need to study and understand shader graphics, particularly unprojection.
Pirateguybrush said:Recostar, have you tried the new guide on the Helixmod site? It seems pretty comprehensive. Fixing games often takes days of work, and every game is different - I'm not sure how viable a video tutorial would be.
Just wanted to clarify that the 'fixing' page I put up on HelixMod is not exactly a tutorial. Games are too varied to have an exact tutorial, so I took the tack of trying to combine all the prior tutorials and tidbits. Not gonna lie though, it's still going to be hard, all of this stuff is super arcane. However, if you understand everyhing in that list of links, you will certainly be able to make fixes.

Making simple fixes like disabling a shader is doable by anyone.

Making interesting fixes like moving HUD to depth is doable by most people.

Making hard fixes like broken shadows is going to require that you understand how shader graphics work at a basic level. Even being a programmer is not enough here, you'll need to study and understand shader graphics, particularly unprojection.

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#27
Posted 02/06/2014 01:11 AM   
Hey Mike, Understood. I never thought it would inspire someone to learn it, it's just that from what I've read I got the impression that Unity titles were difficult, and often require somewhat of a brute-force approach due to...I'm going to say a lack of header information, but I may be mis-remembering that. My understanding was that if it could be done, it might be a slow and tedious brute-force approach. My thinking was that a cash incentive might encourage someone to push through what could be a very time-consuming challenge. I hope my suggestion hasn't offended, I'm just really keen to play this one in 3d. I've not only been a fan of the series since the start, I even took a trip to Norway specifically to meet up with Ragnar and Funcom after the release of Dreamfall. Stryker, I pretty much agree with your approach to things. I'm happy to make occasional donations to anyone who will accept them, with no expectations, obligations, or strings attached. I know this stuff is hard work, and appreciate all these wizards do for us.
Hey Mike,

Understood. I never thought it would inspire someone to learn it, it's just that from what I've read I got the impression that Unity titles were difficult, and often require somewhat of a brute-force approach due to...I'm going to say a lack of header information, but I may be mis-remembering that. My understanding was that if it could be done, it might be a slow and tedious brute-force approach. My thinking was that a cash incentive might encourage someone to push through what could be a very time-consuming challenge. I hope my suggestion hasn't offended, I'm just really keen to play this one in 3d. I've not only been a fan of the series since the start, I even took a trip to Norway specifically to meet up with Ragnar and Funcom after the release of Dreamfall.

Stryker, I pretty much agree with your approach to things. I'm happy to make occasional donations to anyone who will accept them, with no expectations, obligations, or strings attached. I know this stuff is hard work, and appreciate all these wizards do for us.

#28
Posted 02/06/2014 03:29 AM   
It seems like we agree on the personal choice of accepting donations or not. Donations are done with no strings attached. In my personal situation I do feel an obligation to do my best and finish the wrapper. Both due to having recieved donation but more importantly because I decided to work on it with no expiring date. It I am to abandon I might as well not have started. The community is centered around a few people who can fix shaders. When it comes to writing wrappers there really isn't a community. Helix is busy, Chiri is busy and I am giving it my best shot. I have no doubt that Helix dx11 will be excellent when finished. He really defines this community and sets the tone by not accepting donations. I believe that the community can continue to work even if some people accept voluntary donations. If money is involved make sure it is not destructive as a whole. Regarding directx 11 if people prefer to avoid money at all you could just wait for Helix to finish his wrapper.
It seems like we agree on the personal choice of accepting donations or not.

Donations are done with no strings attached.

In my personal situation I do feel an obligation to do my best and finish the wrapper.
Both due to having recieved donation but more importantly because I decided to work on it with no expiring date.
It I am to abandon I might as well not have started.

The community is centered around a few people who can fix shaders.

When it comes to writing wrappers there really isn't a community. Helix is busy, Chiri is busy and I am giving it my best shot.

I have no doubt that Helix dx11 will be excellent when finished.
He really defines this community and sets the tone by not accepting donations.

I believe that the community can continue to work even if some people accept voluntary donations.
If money is involved make sure it is not destructive as a whole.

Regarding directx 11 if people prefer to avoid money at all you could just wait for Helix to finish his wrapper.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

#29
Posted 02/06/2014 11:34 AM   
I've been reading around this thread for quite a while now:)) And I find it amusing in some regards...some invoke "community spirit" others involve the fact that you spend AN INSANE amount of time making the fixes and basically you get the same stuff as everyone else... you get to play the game the way it should be. I am going to show you why BOTH parties are wrong! I. Well I;ll tell you about donations from my perspective since I have been practicing this. Donations are awesome! You do your thing, some people highly praise your work and give you a small token of appreciation! No strings attached, you can drop in and out (like Helix does) when ever you feel like it! It is funny that usually when I make a (surround/eyefinity) fix I saw up to 10k unique downloads and only 4 people actually donated. I don't find it CORRECT that those people who rewarded you for your work get the same stuff as the next person who doesn't gives A S@iet but "Hey, I know a fix will appear sometimes because that dude will make it so I am chilling out and why should I bother to donate since he will do it anyway!" II. Pay per fix: You will get alot of people shouting and cursing you and you are also OBLIGED TO PROVIDE! Ofc, people WILL START demanding CRAP like HEY I WANT THE FIX TO WORK ON MY 8086 computer since I PAYED for it... and so on and so forth... It is not actually "nice" at first, but I don't believe any of YOU READING THIS POST ARE ACTUALLY WORKING FOR THE COMMUNITY WHERE YOU LIVE (Volunteering) OR YOU GO TO WORK AND YOU DON"T GET PAYED! SO, let's stop the charade of "working in favor of the community thing" (after all we live in a capitalistic world, where even the air you breath is taxed). The thing that both parties LACK to see if that: - I bet there are a couple of thousands people on this planet who have the skill to make this. - All the knowledge and skill didn't come over night...it is the product of countless hours of learning, coding, thinking etc (hours that could have easily be spent on something totally different, but I guess passion has its downside;))) - Everything was done from Passion and therefor it's hard to be thought... and find the people with the correct skills thus why is so limited... - Etc. I already asked a couple of people around, and the actual result is to INSTEAD of having a "so-called community" we should ALL band up and start A PROPER BUSINESS...(Hey! Tridef does it). Then we will have the manpower and knowledge to make a proper payment plan + REAL support + REAL development + REAL research + etc I am against the payment per fix to use it (0/100%) part but I am also against for the person who didn't pay one dime to get the full stuff. And before you say anything YES I AM WILLING to Pay for every single fix on the HelixMod if that would be required! I hope I have made myself as clear as possible: The best result would be to BAND up (like Occulus did) and start doing this the proper way, proper software, proper support, proper etc.
I've been reading around this thread for quite a while now:))
And I find it amusing in some regards...some invoke "community spirit" others involve the fact that you spend AN INSANE amount of time making the fixes and basically you get the same stuff as everyone else... you get to play the game the way it should be.

I am going to show you why BOTH parties are wrong!

I.
Well I;ll tell you about donations from my perspective since I have been practicing this.
Donations are awesome! You do your thing, some people highly praise your work and give you a small token of appreciation! No strings attached, you can drop in and out (like Helix does) when ever you feel like it!
It is funny that usually when I make a (surround/eyefinity) fix I saw up to 10k unique downloads and only 4 people actually donated. I don't find it CORRECT that those people who rewarded you for your work get the same stuff as the next person who doesn't gives A S@iet but "Hey, I know a fix will appear sometimes because that dude will make it so I am chilling out and why should I bother to donate since he will do it anyway!"

II.
Pay per fix: You will get alot of people shouting and cursing you and you are also OBLIGED TO PROVIDE!
Ofc, people WILL START demanding CRAP like HEY I WANT THE FIX TO WORK ON MY 8086 computer since I PAYED for it... and so on and so forth...
It is not actually "nice" at first, but I don't believe any of YOU READING THIS POST ARE ACTUALLY WORKING FOR THE COMMUNITY WHERE YOU LIVE (Volunteering) OR YOU GO TO WORK AND YOU DON"T GET PAYED!
SO, let's stop the charade of "working in favor of the community thing" (after all we live in a capitalistic world, where even the air you breath is taxed).

The thing that both parties LACK to see if that:

- I bet there are a couple of thousands people on this planet who have the skill to make this.
- All the knowledge and skill didn't come over night...it is the product of countless hours of learning, coding, thinking etc (hours that could have easily be spent on something totally different, but I guess passion has its downside;)))
- Everything was done from Passion and therefor it's hard to be thought... and find the people with the correct skills thus why is so limited...
- Etc.

I already asked a couple of people around, and the actual result is to INSTEAD of having a "so-called community" we should ALL band up and start A PROPER BUSINESS...(Hey! Tridef does it). Then we will have the manpower and knowledge to make a proper payment plan + REAL support + REAL development + REAL research + etc

I am against the payment per fix to use it (0/100%) part but I am also against for the person who didn't pay one dime to get the full stuff. And before you say anything YES I AM WILLING to Pay for every single fix on the HelixMod if that would be required!


I hope I have made myself as clear as possible: The best result would be to BAND up (like Occulus did) and start doing this the proper way, proper software, proper support, proper etc.

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My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
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(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#30
Posted 02/06/2014 06:50 PM   
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