Projector question please! About to upgrade and have no clue... or half a clue maybe....
  1 / 4    
My Viewsonic just died. i want to buy a new one but have no idea which one. (not Viewsonic anyway) the one i had is 1024x768. which is too low now. i read and checked alot and could not find a piece that has high resolution and a 3d vision abilty... at least it was'nt mention 100%. only "3d ready" and so on. it's both for games and movies. i will be glad id someone can help. my pc is tough enough to handle any resolution. the last thing i want is to find out the setup won't recognize the projector as "3d vision ready" thank you all guys!!
My Viewsonic just died. i want to buy a new one but have no idea which one. (not Viewsonic anyway)
the one i had is 1024x768. which is too low now. i read and checked alot and could not find a piece
that has high resolution and a 3d vision abilty... at least it was'nt mention 100%. only "3d ready" and so on.
it's both for games and movies. i will be glad id someone can help. my pc is tough enough to handle any resolution. the last thing i want is to find out the setup won't recognize the projector as "3d vision ready"
thank you all guys!!

#1
Posted 06/01/2017 12:36 PM   
It depends what your budget is tbh. You can't get a true 4k projector for under £5000. Sony have the market stitched up at the moment. No other consumer projector has true 4K panel (not wobulation and other faux 4K tech) with 3D and frame interpolation. The benq w11000 is 4K, but like I said a moment ago, no 3D and no frame interpolation. It's the same for the new optoma UHD60 that comes out next month. 4K but no 3D or FI. If it's a 1080p projector you are looking for, there are so many to choose from we need your budget to give you a good suggestion. I currently have the Panasonic pt-at 6000e (pt-ae80000u in the states) which is 3 LCD 1080p 3D projector and I am very happy with it. If you want a 3D vision ready projector, rather than a projector that is compatible with 3D TV Play you'll have to get an nvidia certified one and I think they are all 720p, so you won't be getting the best movie experience. HDR is pointless on projectors as no projector is bright enough yet. Apart from £50,000 and upwards dual laser projectors. I read a review on the £18,000 Sony vpl-vw1100es projector and they said that for HDR to look good on this projector it would have to be twice as bright!!! Benq and optoma make good 'budget' 3D 1080p projectors and I think acer brought out a gaming projector too but not sure what resolution it is or if it has 3D. Hope this helps anyway.
It depends what your budget is tbh.
You can't get a true 4k projector for under £5000.
Sony have the market stitched up at the moment. No other consumer projector has true 4K panel (not wobulation and other faux 4K tech) with 3D and frame interpolation.
The benq w11000 is 4K, but like I said a moment ago, no 3D and no frame interpolation. It's the same for the new optoma UHD60 that comes out next month. 4K but no 3D or FI.

If it's a 1080p projector you are looking for, there are so many to choose from we need your budget to give you a good suggestion.
I currently have the Panasonic pt-at 6000e (pt-ae80000u in the states) which is 3 LCD 1080p 3D projector and I am very happy with it.

If you want a 3D vision ready projector, rather than a projector that is compatible with 3D TV Play you'll have to get an nvidia certified one and I think they are all 720p, so you won't be getting the best movie experience.

HDR is pointless on projectors as no projector is bright enough yet. Apart from £50,000 and upwards dual laser projectors.

I read a review on the £18,000 Sony vpl-vw1100es projector and they said that for HDR to look good on this projector it would have to be twice as bright!!!

Benq and optoma make good 'budget' 3D 1080p projectors and I think acer brought out a gaming projector too but not sure what resolution it is or if it has 3D.

Hope this helps anyway.

#2
Posted 06/01/2017 02:22 PM   
Thanks alot for your detailed response GibsonRed. if i will buy a projector that is "compatible with 3D TV Play"... how diffrent is it from the certified one? will i have ap problem running games with it? a diffrent proccess? i saw alot of 3dtv able... but was not sure if i can risk it or not...
Thanks alot for your detailed response GibsonRed.
if i will buy a projector that is "compatible with 3D TV Play"... how diffrent is it from the certified one?
will i have ap problem running games with it? a diffrent proccess?
i saw alot of 3dtv able... but was not sure if i can risk it or not...

#3
Posted 06/01/2017 02:33 PM   
About the budget... 500usd to 700usd. if its worth it i can push a bit further. i thikn Optoma will be enough for me, just not sure about specific model. again...it's for 3d vision gaming as much as for movies. i realy would like to know the diffrence between certified Nvidia 3d vision and compatible with 3D TV Play thanks again!!!
About the budget... 500usd to 700usd. if its worth it i can push a bit further.
i thikn Optoma will be enough for me, just not sure about specific model.
again...it's for 3d vision gaming as much as for movies.
i realy would like to know the diffrence between
certified Nvidia 3d vision and compatible with 3D TV Play
thanks again!!!

#4
Posted 06/01/2017 02:54 PM   
A lot of users on here have the Benq w1070 projector, including myself. It can be found for $500ish if you look for a deal and it's 1080p. It performs great but 3D is limitied to 720p. The 720p limit applies to all projectors though, unless you do some serious EDID manipulation.
A lot of users on here have the Benq w1070 projector, including myself. It can be found for $500ish if you look for a deal and it's 1080p. It performs great but 3D is limitied to 720p. The 720p limit applies to all projectors though, unless you do some serious EDID manipulation.

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

#5
Posted 06/01/2017 03:33 PM   
I wish there were projectors that do 1080p/60hz with 3D Vision / 3DTV Play. I don't know if the 4k ones can do 3D at 1080p/60hz. I have the Benq W1080st+ and I'm happy with it. Keep in mind that 3DTV Play is limited to 720p/60hz and 1080p/24 hz the latter being unplayable for games but good for movies and 3D Vision is limited to 720p/60hz. You can play in 3D with both 3DTV Play and 3D Vision, however the 3D Vision projectors are limited to 720p at least to my knowledge. Simply put the difference between the two is that with 3DTV Play you don't need the emitter, however if you have it it will not cost you anything to activate it just keep it plugged in, and you will need manufacturers glasses rather than the 3D Vision ones. Hope this helps.
I wish there were projectors that do 1080p/60hz with 3D Vision / 3DTV Play. I don't know if the 4k ones can do 3D at 1080p/60hz. I have the Benq W1080st+ and I'm happy with it.

Keep in mind that 3DTV Play is limited to 720p/60hz and 1080p/24 hz the latter being unplayable for games but good for movies and 3D Vision is limited to 720p/60hz.

You can play in 3D with both 3DTV Play and 3D Vision, however the 3D Vision projectors are limited to 720p at least to my knowledge.

Simply put the difference between the two is that with 3DTV Play you don't need the emitter, however if you have it it will not cost you anything to activate it just keep it plugged in, and you will need manufacturers glasses rather than the 3D Vision ones.

Hope this helps.

Windows 7 64 bit, i5 6600k 4.6 Ghz , ASUS Z170-P D3, 16GB DDR3 2400Mhz CL 10 , 980 Ti , BenQ XL2411Z 3D Monitor, BenQ W1080ST+ DLP 3D Projector , 135 Elite Screens M135UWH2 1.1 gain, Darbee 5000s

#6
Posted 06/01/2017 04:52 PM   
Thank you all for the info. very helful and informative. i suspected that 1080p with 3d vision in gaming is an issue... now all clear. i will check Benq w1070. if the guys here whom owns it are happy with it then it's worth checking it out.
Thank you all for the info. very helful and informative. i suspected that 1080p with 3d vision in gaming is an issue... now all clear. i will check Benq w1070. if the guys here whom owns it are happy with it then it's worth checking it out.

#7
Posted 06/01/2017 05:47 PM   
We are all gamers here. IMO, it makes no sense to have a gaming display which does not allow 120Hz+ at least in 2D. 3D Play projectors are all 60Hz. You might get some better crispness in 2D games and movies but is it better than 120Hz? Most gamers who play a veriety of games (not limited to niche low FPS games) will tell you that 720p gaming at 120fps is far superior to 1080p gaming at 60fps. Modern gaming monitors, for example, start at 144Hz, with manufacturers starting to release 200Hz now. This is the reason I personally will never upgrade from a 720p 120Hz 3D Vision projector to any 1080p projector limited to 60Hz. I even keep my desktop at 120Hz as 60Hz cursor is an irritant. BTW, I can almost guarantee that the problem is the PSU board on your projector. If you replace all the capacitors on it, or simply buy a spare PSU board, your ViewSonic will be good as new. Cost: ~$15 for replacement PSU on ebay. Depending on budget, I don't believe it would be significantly advantageous going from 1024x768 120Hz to 1280x720p 120Hz for $500-$800 when you can repair your old projector for $15.
We are all gamers here. IMO, it makes no sense to have a gaming display which does not allow 120Hz+ at least in 2D.

3D Play projectors are all 60Hz. You might get some better crispness in 2D games and movies but is it better than 120Hz?

Most gamers who play a veriety of games (not limited to niche low FPS games) will tell you that 720p gaming at 120fps is far superior to 1080p gaming at 60fps. Modern gaming monitors, for example, start at 144Hz, with manufacturers starting to release 200Hz now.

This is the reason I personally will never upgrade from a 720p 120Hz 3D Vision projector to any 1080p projector limited to 60Hz. I even keep my desktop at 120Hz as 60Hz cursor is an irritant.


BTW, I can almost guarantee that the problem is the PSU board on your projector. If you replace all the capacitors on it, or simply buy a spare PSU board, your ViewSonic will be good as new. Cost: ~$15 for replacement PSU on ebay.

Depending on budget, I don't believe it would be significantly advantageous going from 1024x768 120Hz to 1280x720p 120Hz for $500-$800 when you can repair your old projector for $15.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#8
Posted 06/02/2017 01:43 AM   
The majority of 1080p projectors can do 720p@120hz but 720p projector cannot do 1080p. I think it depends on the screen size and viewing distance. On my 110" screen 1080p is at the limit. I am sitting about 3.5m away and when I get to like 2.5m I already see pixels. But if you were happy with 1024x768, 720p could work for you. PS: With a little bit of convincing (Edid modding) some projectors can do 1920x750@104hz or 1715x735@120hz.
The majority of 1080p projectors can do 720p@120hz but 720p projector cannot do 1080p.
I think it depends on the screen size and viewing distance. On my 110" screen 1080p is at the limit. I am sitting about 3.5m away and when I get to like 2.5m I already see pixels.
But if you were happy with 1024x768, 720p could work for you.



PS: With a little bit of convincing (Edid modding) some projectors can do 1920x750@104hz or 1715x735@120hz.

Intel i7 8086K
Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti Aorus Extreme
DDR4 2x8gb 3200mhz Cl14
TV LG OLED65E6V
Windows 10 64bits

#9
Posted 06/02/2017 05:07 AM   
hello my h6510bd died and now i have a h6518, the new one (http://www.projektoren-datenbank.com/pro/index.php) and i'm happy with it. isn't too loud, is bright, good contrast, power consumption low, 144hz tripple flash for 3d movies, good gaming quality if downsample from 2k or 4k(registry tweak, edid override). it's my third acer 3d projector and the best i had so far. i only had acer projactors so i can't compare it to other brands
hello

my h6510bd died and now i have a h6518, the new one (http://www.projektoren-datenbank.com/pro/index.php) and i'm happy with it. isn't too loud, is bright, good contrast, power consumption low, 144hz tripple flash for 3d movies, good gaming quality if downsample from 2k or 4k(registry tweak, edid override). it's my third acer 3d projector and the best i had so far. i only had acer projactors so i can't compare it to other brands

#10
Posted 06/03/2017 08:01 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]We are all gamers here. IMO, it makes no sense to have a gaming display which does not allow 120Hz+ at least in 2D. 3D Play projectors are all 60Hz. You might get some better crispness in 2D games and movies but is it better than 120Hz? Most gamers who play a veriety of games (not limited to niche low FPS games) will tell you that 720p gaming at 120fps is far superior to 1080p gaming at 60fps. Modern gaming monitors, for example, start at 144Hz, with manufacturers starting to release 200Hz now. This is the reason I personally will never upgrade from a 720p 120Hz 3D Vision projector to any 1080p projector limited to 60Hz. I even keep my desktop at 120Hz as 60Hz cursor is an irritant. BTW, I can almost guarantee that the problem is the PSU board on your projector. If you replace all the capacitors on it, or simply buy a spare PSU board, your ViewSonic will be good as new. Cost: ~$15 for replacement PSU on ebay. Depending on budget, I don't believe it would be significantly advantageous going from 1024x768 120Hz to 1280x720p 120Hz for $500-$800 when you can repair your old projector for $15. [/quote] I have had acer h5360 and optoma hd67n. Both were 120hz 3d vision projectors. Later upgraded to optoma hd26 and benq ht2050 after that. Those 1080p 3dtv play projectors were a clear step up in picture quality. Brighter 3d image, more contrast and much sharper image. It was also possible to use those in 120hz 3d vision mode, but that required edid flash. I feel like 120hz 720p edid mode also looked better than those native 720p projectors. I noticed a hint of screendoor effect on 720p projectors and there appeared to be more jaggies although i have no idea why. Probably because of bigger physical pixels even though the render res was the same? Then there's the 1080p top and bottom mode which looks so much better than 720p 120hz or 3d tv play. Techincally its not much more pixels but i had hard time telling native 1080p 3d image apart from 1080p top and bottom. Native 1080p 3d was just 24hz though. 3d migoto supports TaB these days, tridef too if you use it. 1080p TaB also looked much better than 3dtvplay@720p with dsr(up to 2560x1440) or 120hz@720p downsampled from 1080p. I think benq ht2050(w1110 europe model) is best 3d pj i have had. Its a successor to the w1070 so HaNaNg look for ht2050 instead of w1070. HT2050 has little better image quality, its noticeably quiteter and has better lens(less chromatic aberration) compared to w1070. Its also best pick for its price range for movies and 2d gaming. I would also warn you against optoma hd142x/hd27. Its cheap with good reviews but its not good for 3d gaming. The rainbow artifacts are absolutely horrible in 2d and 3d gaming (60hz or 120hz). Never seen anything like it, you can see color trails surrounding object when moving camera, ive trid 2 units now because i though it was defective as first. Its ok for 2d and 3d movies as long as you input 24hz signal so color wheel spins faster. 60hz 2d gaming is also out of the question due to rainbow artifacts. Its crazy, 50hz signal was better, again the cw spins faster in that mode too. But avoid it at all cost! ht2050 has better image anyway, but it has a tad higher price.
RAGEdemon said:We are all gamers here. IMO, it makes no sense to have a gaming display which does not allow 120Hz+ at least in 2D.

3D Play projectors are all 60Hz. You might get some better crispness in 2D games and movies but is it better than 120Hz?

Most gamers who play a veriety of games (not limited to niche low FPS games) will tell you that 720p gaming at 120fps is far superior to 1080p gaming at 60fps. Modern gaming monitors, for example, start at 144Hz, with manufacturers starting to release 200Hz now.

This is the reason I personally will never upgrade from a 720p 120Hz 3D Vision projector to any 1080p projector limited to 60Hz. I even keep my desktop at 120Hz as 60Hz cursor is an irritant.


BTW, I can almost guarantee that the problem is the PSU board on your projector. If you replace all the capacitors on it, or simply buy a spare PSU board, your ViewSonic will be good as new. Cost: ~$15 for replacement PSU on ebay.

Depending on budget, I don't believe it would be significantly advantageous going from 1024x768 120Hz to 1280x720p 120Hz for $500-$800 when you can repair your old projector for $15.



I have had acer h5360 and optoma hd67n. Both were 120hz 3d vision projectors. Later upgraded to optoma hd26 and benq ht2050 after that. Those 1080p 3dtv play projectors were a clear step up in picture quality. Brighter 3d image, more contrast and much sharper image. It was also possible to use those in 120hz 3d vision mode, but that required edid flash. I feel like 120hz 720p edid mode also looked better than those native 720p projectors. I noticed a hint of screendoor effect on 720p projectors and there appeared to be more jaggies although i have no idea why. Probably because of bigger physical pixels even though the render res was the same?

Then there's the 1080p top and bottom mode which looks so much better than 720p 120hz or 3d tv play. Techincally its not much more pixels but i had hard time telling native 1080p 3d image apart from 1080p top and bottom. Native 1080p 3d was just 24hz though. 3d migoto supports TaB these days, tridef too if you use it. 1080p TaB also looked much better than 3dtvplay@720p with dsr(up to 2560x1440) or 120hz@720p downsampled from 1080p.

I think benq ht2050(w1110 europe model) is best 3d pj i have had. Its a successor to the w1070 so HaNaNg look for ht2050 instead of w1070. HT2050 has little better image quality, its noticeably quiteter and has better lens(less chromatic aberration) compared to w1070. Its also best pick for its price range for movies and 2d gaming.

I would also warn you against optoma hd142x/hd27. Its cheap with good reviews but its not good for 3d gaming. The rainbow artifacts are absolutely horrible in 2d and 3d gaming (60hz or 120hz). Never seen anything like it, you can see color trails surrounding object when moving camera, ive trid 2 units now because i though it was defective as first. Its ok for 2d and 3d movies as long as you input 24hz signal so color wheel spins faster. 60hz 2d gaming is also out of the question due to rainbow artifacts. Its crazy, 50hz signal was better, again the cw spins faster in that mode too. But avoid it at all cost! ht2050 has better image anyway, but it has a tad higher price.

#11
Posted 06/03/2017 11:20 AM   
That's a good point regarding the screen door effect sammy123. However, I do not believe some of the other points are as clear cut and dry. I'm comparing to my 720p ViewSonic PJD3561w, and by extension, other native 720p 120Hz 3D Vision ready projectors. I have bashed it in many threads, devoting threads on this forum and MTBS3D to its faults and how to fix them; however, it does have its merits as a gaming grade projector. 2 main points you talk about are: 1. Brightness. PJD3561w is 3000 lumens while the ht2050 is 2200 lumens. 2. There is image quality degradation when down-scaling from 1080p native DLP chip to 720p for the benefit of 120Hz. Aside from any preceived screen door effect (I don't notice it on my projector), a native 720p projector's image quality is superior as there are no scaling artefacts. Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for standard users? Yes, absolutely. Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for gamers? No, I don't believe so. The reason is simple. Since all our gaming will be done at 720p at 120Hz, it is better to have a 720p native projector to avoid image artefacts. Here is an image I edited from another topic on the same issue: [url]https://s11.postimg.org/dse6fzoc3/deformed_text.jpg[/url] Notice the truncated pixels on top and bottom of the 'o' and the 'e' that I have highlighted (compare the 2 e's and the 2 o's - they should look identical but are not), and then notice that this occurs on not only the 2 letters highlighted by me, but all letters in the image, and then hopefully understand that this degradation occurs on the entire image, not just on letters. Note that the camera used to take the photo is quite poor and produces a blurry picture. The problem is actually much more pronounced in real life. This permanent loss of Image Quality every time I want to game at 120Hz (which is always) is not acceptable to me, hence my proposal to stick with a dedicated 120Hz 720p solution. Here is the thread where we discuss this issue in more detail: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/1/[/url] Sure, one can say that one doesn't notice the scaling artefacts. But if one doesn't, then I would question one's need for a higher resolution apparatus. For reference, here is the distance vs resolution required. [img]https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?quality=100&image_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Fwww.engadget.com%2Fmedia%2F2006%2F12%2Fresolution_chart.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=41f8ee1cc2056958af325f7877186880c8211ed2[/img] I must also point out here that 720p + DSR @ 4x with 0 smoothing (2560x1440), gives particularly striking image quality and anti-aliasing in games. Since 3D Vision requires literally double the GPU performance, it is in fact like playing games at 4k, which computers nowadays can barely support on modern games.
That's a good point regarding the screen door effect sammy123.

However, I do not believe some of the other points are as clear cut and dry.

I'm comparing to my 720p ViewSonic PJD3561w, and by extension, other native 720p 120Hz 3D Vision ready projectors. I have bashed it in many threads, devoting threads on this forum and MTBS3D to its faults and how to fix them; however, it does have its merits as a gaming grade projector.

2 main points you talk about are:

1. Brightness. PJD3561w is 3000 lumens while the ht2050 is 2200 lumens.

2. There is image quality degradation when down-scaling from 1080p native DLP chip to 720p for the benefit of 120Hz. Aside from any preceived screen door effect (I don't notice it on my projector), a native 720p projector's image quality is superior as there are no scaling artefacts.

Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for standard users? Yes, absolutely.

Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for gamers? No, I don't believe so.

The reason is simple. Since all our gaming will be done at 720p at 120Hz, it is better to have a 720p native projector to avoid image artefacts.

Here is an image I edited from another topic on the same issue:
https://s11.postimg.org/dse6fzoc3/deformed_text.jpg

Notice the truncated pixels on top and bottom of the 'o' and the 'e' that I have highlighted (compare the 2 e's and the 2 o's - they should look identical but are not), and then notice that this occurs on not only the 2 letters highlighted by me, but all letters in the image, and then hopefully understand that this degradation occurs on the entire image, not just on letters.

Note that the camera used to take the photo is quite poor and produces a blurry picture. The problem is actually much more pronounced in real life. This permanent loss of Image Quality every time I want to game at 120Hz (which is always) is not acceptable to me, hence my proposal to stick with a dedicated 120Hz 720p solution.

Here is the thread where we discuss this issue in more detail:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/1/

Sure, one can say that one doesn't notice the scaling artefacts. But if one doesn't, then I would question one's need for a higher resolution apparatus.


For reference, here is the distance vs resolution required.

Image

I must also point out here that 720p + DSR @ 4x with 0 smoothing (2560x1440), gives particularly striking image quality and anti-aliasing in games. Since 3D Vision requires literally double the GPU performance, it is in fact like playing games at 4k, which computers nowadays can barely support on modern games.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#12
Posted 06/03/2017 04:49 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Here is an image I edited from another topic on the same issue: https://s11.postimg.org/dse6fzoc3/deformed_text.jpg[/quote] I'll say it again, Fonts are a piss poor example to use. Meshes and wireframes are not constrained like fonts that must be made to be readable. Images lose very little when scaling to a non native resolution on a DLP mirror array.
RAGEdemon said:Here is an image I edited from another topic on the same issue:

https://s11.postimg.org/dse6fzoc3/deformed_text.jpg



I'll say it again, Fonts are a piss poor example to use.

Meshes and wireframes are not constrained like fonts that must be made to be readable.

Images lose very little when scaling to a non native resolution on a DLP mirror array.

#13
Posted 06/03/2017 05:57 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]That's a good point regarding the screen door effect sammy123. However, I do not believe some of the other points are as clear cut and dry. I'm comparing to my 720p ViewSonic PJD3561w, and by extension, other native 720p 120Hz 3D Vision ready projectors. I have bashed it in many threads, devoting threads on this forum and MTBS3D to its faults and how to fix them; however, it does have its merits as a gaming grade projector. 2 main points you talk about are: 1. Brightness. PJD3561w is 3000 lumens while the ht2050 is 2200 lumens. 2. There is image quality degradation when down-scaling from 1080p native DLP chip to 720p for the benefit of 120Hz. Aside from any preceived screen door effect (I don't notice it on my projector), a native 720p projector's image quality is superior as there are no scaling artefacts. Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for standard users? Yes, absolutely. Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for gamers? No, I don't believe so. The reason is simple. Since all our gaming will be done at 720p at 120Hz, it is better to have a 720p native projector to avoid image artefacts. Here is an image I edited from another topic on the same issue: [url]https://s11.postimg.org/dse6fzoc3/deformed_text.jpg[/url] Notice the truncated pixels on top and bottom of the 'o' and the 'e' that I have highlighted (compare the 2 e's and the 2 o's - they should look identical but are not), and then notice that this occurs on not only the 2 letters highlighted by me, but all letters in the image, and then hopefully understand that this degradation occurs on the entire image, not just on letters. Note that the camera used to take the photo is quite poor and produces a blurry picture. The problem is actually much more pronounced in real life. This permanent loss of Image Quality every time I want to game at 120Hz (which is always) is not acceptable to me, hence my proposal to stick with a dedicated 120Hz 720p solution. Here is the thread where we discuss this issue in more detail: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/1/[/url] Sure, one can say that one doesn't notice the scaling artefacts. But if one doesn't, then I would question one's need for a higher resolution apparatus. For reference, here is the distance vs resolution required. [img]https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?quality=100&image_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Fwww.engadget.com%2Fmedia%2F2006%2F12%2Fresolution_chart.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=41f8ee1cc2056958af325f7877186880c8211ed2[/img] I must also point out here that 720p + DSR @ 4x with 0 smoothing (2560x1440), gives particularly striking image quality and anti-aliasing in games. Since 3D Vision requires literally double the GPU performance, it is in fact like playing games at 4k, which computers nowadays can barely support on modern games. [/quote] 1. Your Viewsonic has rgbcyw color wheel? If it is, i can bet that ht2050 is brighter. Forget about the specs lumens, those are exaggerated and in most cases simple lies. These "3000" lumen dlp projectors are around 1000 lumens when calibrated, outputting around 700 color lumens. In the brightest modes they might output close to 3000 white lumens but it looks absolutely disgusting when color lumens are not even third of that. Color lumens are VERY important in 3d too, benq ht2050 looked so much better than 3200 lumen optoma hd26. Its also brighter in 2d usage despite what specs say. 2. These are my subjective impressions and ht2050 looked so much better in 3d compared to hd67n and h5360 that i was actually suprised. I havent tried your projector but im very skeptical that it would be better for 3d gaming compared to ht2050. To be blunt, i dont believe it at all. Especially now that you can use top and bottom 3d mode with 3dmigoto, i dont recommend to get 720p projectors anymore unless its your only option. Scaling artifacts dont bother me in 3d, only noticeable in text. 720p mode still looked so much better than my 720p native projectors due to me being able to notice sde and ht2050 having superior contrast, color and brightness compared to them. Try ht2050 sometimes, you might be suprised. And ht2050 specifically because it has 6x rgbrgb color wheel and higher than usual color output for entry level dlp projectors. 240w blulb too, compared to 190w on the "3200 lumen" hd27 for example. Im not expert on dlp tech but i wonder if the very big white segment on the rgbcyw color wheel actually lowers color output even more just so manufacturers can put out big lumens on paper. Snake oil. HT2050 rgbrgb color wheel also reduces rainbow artifacts so its much easier on the eyes compared to many other dlp projectors. edit: Here are couple of reviews that go into brightness in more detail ie including color brightness. hd26 3200 lumens http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd26_projector_review.htm?page=Limitations " In Bright mode, the HD26 cranks out over 3,000 lumens. However, color in Bright mode is dull, undersaturated, and generally lackluster. The use of non-RGB segments in the HD26's color wheel means that it can produce more white light than colored light. Cinema mode, on the other hand, has excellent color but only produces about 1,000 lumens. If you plan to use the HD26 as a home theater projector, count on 1,000 usable lumens, not 3,000." hd28 dse 3200 lumens http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma-hd28dse-projector-review.htm?page=Performance "Color Brightness. The HD28DSE has a color wheel configuration of RYGCWB. The "W", or white segment in the wheel, allows the projector to vary the amount of white relative to the color information that defines the picture. You can control this one of two ways, either by selecting the preset color mode, or by adjusting the level of Brilliant Color. If you choose the Reference mode, it turns off the white segment entirely, and the brightness of the color components of the signal (red, green, and blue) are equal to total white light. That is why the Reference mode is much lower in total lumens than the other preset modes." Reference mode measured 639 lumens. Ht2050 puts out twice the color lumens, 1255. Read more here http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq-HT3050-HT2050-projector-review.htm?page=Performance "Color brightness is outstanding compared to many DLP projectors. In Bright and Vivid modes it measures 77% of white, in Game mode it measures 85% of white, and in Cinema it is the full 100% of white." Cinema mode 1255 lumens. LCD projectors are actually undisputed kings when it comes to brightness. The new epson lineup, hc 3100, hc3700 and hc3900 puts out over 3000 lumens and color output is same because they use 3 lcd panels. One reviewer measured around 15fL through the glasses on epson 3700, while dlp projector generally go around 6-8fL. Too bad they are bad for 3d since crosstalk is unbearable :/
RAGEdemon said:That's a good point regarding the screen door effect sammy123.

However, I do not believe some of the other points are as clear cut and dry.

I'm comparing to my 720p ViewSonic PJD3561w, and by extension, other native 720p 120Hz 3D Vision ready projectors. I have bashed it in many threads, devoting threads on this forum and MTBS3D to its faults and how to fix them; however, it does have its merits as a gaming grade projector.

2 main points you talk about are:

1. Brightness. PJD3561w is 3000 lumens while the ht2050 is 2200 lumens.

2. There is image quality degradation when down-scaling from 1080p native DLP chip to 720p for the benefit of 120Hz. Aside from any preceived screen door effect (I don't notice it on my projector), a native 720p projector's image quality is superior as there are no scaling artefacts.

Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for standard users? Yes, absolutely.

Is the ht2050 better than the PJD3561w in normal use for gamers? No, I don't believe so.

The reason is simple. Since all our gaming will be done at 720p at 120Hz, it is better to have a 720p native projector to avoid image artefacts.

Here is an image I edited from another topic on the same issue:
https://s11.postimg.org/dse6fzoc3/deformed_text.jpg

Notice the truncated pixels on top and bottom of the 'o' and the 'e' that I have highlighted (compare the 2 e's and the 2 o's - they should look identical but are not), and then notice that this occurs on not only the 2 letters highlighted by me, but all letters in the image, and then hopefully understand that this degradation occurs on the entire image, not just on letters.

Note that the camera used to take the photo is quite poor and produces a blurry picture. The problem is actually much more pronounced in real life. This permanent loss of Image Quality every time I want to game at 120Hz (which is always) is not acceptable to me, hence my proposal to stick with a dedicated 120Hz 720p solution.

Here is the thread where we discuss this issue in more detail:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/1/

Sure, one can say that one doesn't notice the scaling artefacts. But if one doesn't, then I would question one's need for a higher resolution apparatus.


For reference, here is the distance vs resolution required.

Image

I must also point out here that 720p + DSR @ 4x with 0 smoothing (2560x1440), gives particularly striking image quality and anti-aliasing in games. Since 3D Vision requires literally double the GPU performance, it is in fact like playing games at 4k, which computers nowadays can barely support on modern games.


1. Your Viewsonic has rgbcyw color wheel? If it is, i can bet that ht2050 is brighter. Forget about the specs lumens, those are exaggerated and in most cases simple lies. These "3000" lumen dlp projectors are around 1000 lumens when calibrated, outputting around 700 color lumens. In the brightest modes they might output close to 3000 white lumens but it looks absolutely disgusting when color lumens are not even third of that. Color lumens are VERY important in 3d too, benq ht2050 looked so much better than 3200 lumen optoma hd26. Its also brighter in 2d usage despite what specs say.

2. These are my subjective impressions and ht2050 looked so much better in 3d compared to hd67n and h5360 that i was actually suprised. I havent tried your projector but im very skeptical that it would be better for 3d gaming compared to ht2050. To be blunt, i dont believe it at all. Especially now that you can use top and bottom 3d mode with 3dmigoto, i dont recommend to get 720p projectors anymore unless its your only option.

Scaling artifacts dont bother me in 3d, only noticeable in text. 720p mode still looked so much better than my 720p native projectors due to me being able to notice sde and ht2050 having superior contrast, color and brightness compared to them. Try ht2050 sometimes, you might be suprised. And ht2050 specifically because it has 6x rgbrgb color wheel and higher than usual color output for entry level dlp projectors. 240w blulb too, compared to 190w on the "3200 lumen" hd27 for example. Im not expert on dlp tech but i wonder if the very big white segment on the rgbcyw color wheel actually lowers color output even more just so manufacturers can put out big lumens on paper. Snake oil. HT2050 rgbrgb color wheel also reduces rainbow artifacts so its much easier on the eyes compared to many other dlp projectors.



edit: Here are couple of reviews that go into brightness in more detail ie including color brightness.


hd26 3200 lumens
http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd26_projector_review.htm?page=Limitations

" In Bright mode, the HD26 cranks out over 3,000 lumens. However, color in Bright mode is dull, undersaturated, and generally lackluster. The use of non-RGB segments in the HD26's color wheel means that it can produce more white light than colored light.

Cinema mode, on the other hand, has excellent color but only produces about 1,000 lumens. If you plan to use the HD26 as a home theater projector, count on 1,000 usable lumens, not 3,000."



hd28 dse 3200 lumens
http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma-hd28dse-projector-review.htm?page=Performance

"Color Brightness. The HD28DSE has a color wheel configuration of RYGCWB. The "W", or white segment in the wheel, allows the projector to vary the amount of white relative to the color information that defines the picture. You can control this one of two ways, either by selecting the preset color mode, or by adjusting the level of Brilliant Color. If you choose the Reference mode, it turns off the white segment entirely, and the brightness of the color components of the signal (red, green, and blue) are equal to total white light. That is why the Reference mode is much lower in total lumens than the other preset modes."

Reference mode measured 639 lumens. Ht2050 puts out twice the color lumens, 1255. Read more here
http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq-HT3050-HT2050-projector-review.htm?page=Performance

"Color brightness is outstanding compared to many DLP projectors. In Bright and Vivid modes it measures 77% of white, in Game mode it measures 85% of white, and in Cinema it is the full 100% of white." Cinema mode 1255 lumens.

LCD projectors are actually undisputed kings when it comes to brightness. The new epson lineup, hc 3100, hc3700 and hc3900 puts out over 3000 lumens and color output is same because they use 3 lcd panels. One reviewer measured around 15fL through the glasses on epson 3700, while dlp projector generally go around 6-8fL. Too bad they are bad for 3d since crosstalk is unbearable :/

#14
Posted 06/03/2017 06:07 PM   
Ragedeamon... you can see that even according to this graphic 720p is just to low for and very noticeable for a projector. 100" is a common size and 3.5m (11,5Ft) a common viewing distance and with this you are at the borderline of 1440p and above. Going today below a FullHD projector doesn't make any sense, who use the projector only for gaming? Of course you will watch movies on it. BTW: As you can see in the link you posted Full HD Quality 3D is possible on a 1080p Projector. PS: I don't fully agree with that graphic. According to it I could replace my 55" TV with a 720p and I would barely tell the difference. This is far far away from reality.
Ragedeamon... you can see that even according to this graphic 720p is just to low for and very noticeable for a projector. 100" is a common size and 3.5m (11,5Ft) a common viewing distance and with this you are at the borderline of 1440p and above.

Going today below a FullHD projector doesn't make any sense, who use the projector only for gaming? Of course you will watch movies on it.

BTW: As you can see in the link you posted Full HD Quality 3D is possible on a 1080p Projector.

PS: I don't fully agree with that graphic. According to it I could replace my 55" TV with a 720p and I would barely tell the difference. This is far far away from reality.

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#15
Posted 06/03/2017 07:34 PM   
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