Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon? Arguments to add OpenGL
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[quote name='Amorphous' date='18 January 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1263864081' post='983748']

[center]<hr width=66%>1/18/2010[/center]
I'm pleased to post the first set of responses from NVIDIA's 3D Vision Product Manager, Andrew Fear.

[b]2. Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon?[/b]

Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?


[[/quote]
The full post is stickied, you can read it here http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=156751
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I was intrigued by this post by Chiz

We may never know why OpenGL stereo support was cut by Nvidia, but in the end it may not matter as OpenGL has just fallen by the wayside and become irrelevant as a shipping runtime for PC games. Rage's lackluster sales and Doom 4's indefinite postponement certainly won't help matters there either.

This is taken from post#24 in the thread at http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=217099&hl=prey&st=20
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Looking thru the forumn, I couldn't really find a definitive answer. Other than I saw where it was asked by Mr. Andrew Fear "what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?" as posted by Amorphous.

A few posts later in that thread Mr. Fear asks "2. Would you trade OGL support for another feature?"
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Being somewhat new to 3D Gaming, I myself do not have a valid argument for it. But, looking thru that thread it made me curious.

Is there a need for Open GL support in 3D Vision/3DTV Play? And, if so, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?
[quote name='Amorphous' date='18 January 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1263864081' post='983748']



<hr width=66%>1/18/2010


I'm pleased to post the first set of responses from NVIDIA's 3D Vision Product Manager, Andrew Fear.



2. Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon?



Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?





[

The full post is stickied, you can read it here http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=156751

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I was intrigued by this post by Chiz



We may never know why OpenGL stereo support was cut by Nvidia, but in the end it may not matter as OpenGL has just fallen by the wayside and become irrelevant as a shipping runtime for PC games. Rage's lackluster sales and Doom 4's indefinite postponement certainly won't help matters there either.



This is taken from post#24 in the thread at http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=217099&hl=prey&st=20

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Looking thru the forumn, I couldn't really find a definitive answer. Other than I saw where it was asked by Mr. Andrew Fear "what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?" as posted by Amorphous.



A few posts later in that thread Mr. Fear asks "2. Would you trade OGL support for another feature?"

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Being somewhat new to 3D Gaming, I myself do not have a valid argument for it. But, looking thru that thread it made me curious.



Is there a need for Open GL support in 3D Vision/3DTV Play? And, if so, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?

#1
Posted 12/12/2011 08:56 PM   
Games like Rage and Minecraft definitely make me wish OpenGL was supported by 3D Vision, or any 3D solution for that matter. Of course, tt's not as prominent as it used to be, with DirectX being the king. It might not be worth it from a financial perspective.
Games like Rage and Minecraft definitely make me wish OpenGL was supported by 3D Vision, or any 3D solution for that matter. Of course, tt's not as prominent as it used to be, with DirectX being the king. It might not be worth it from a financial perspective.

#2
Posted 12/12/2011 09:13 PM   
A couple notable reasons, and these aren't necessarily everyone's tastes:

1) Rage, Amnesia (and it's mods), Penumbra (works on old stereo), Doom 3, and Chronicles of Riddick.

2) Support for all past OpenGL Games: Descent 3, Quake I,II, and III, KOTR, etc.. Not everyone likes to play old titles, but some of us definitely do, and with GOG and Steam keeping old stuff alive and available on modern OS, it's now more feasible to do so.

Those are just a few thoughts, and none of them a knock down reason, but collectively a very strong albeit convoluted one.
A couple notable reasons, and these aren't necessarily everyone's tastes:



1) Rage, Amnesia (and it's mods), Penumbra (works on old stereo), Doom 3, and Chronicles of Riddick.



2) Support for all past OpenGL Games: Descent 3, Quake I,II, and III, KOTR, etc.. Not everyone likes to play old titles, but some of us definitely do, and with GOG and Steam keeping old stuff alive and available on modern OS, it's now more feasible to do so.



Those are just a few thoughts, and none of them a knock down reason, but collectively a very strong albeit convoluted one.

#3
Posted 12/12/2011 09:19 PM   
Personally I've tested JK2 and HMFakk2 in s-3d with the ogl.dll that allows them to play with the current drivers and there definitely is a benefit to playing old title. They are so much cleaner and sharper due to the lack of any post-processing effects. Yes, one can always (not really) just switch them off in modern titles, but why wonder about it. There are some old titles, which new s-3d players will benefit greatly from playing in s-3d, not only ogl, but dx7 ones. Too bad Nv doesn't really care, 3d gamers are a minority on their own, but 3d gamers, who want to play old titles are obviously even fewer, so why concern themselves.
Personally I've tested JK2 and HMFakk2 in s-3d with the ogl.dll that allows them to play with the current drivers and there definitely is a benefit to playing old title. They are so much cleaner and sharper due to the lack of any post-processing effects. Yes, one can always (not really) just switch them off in modern titles, but why wonder about it. There are some old titles, which new s-3d players will benefit greatly from playing in s-3d, not only ogl, but dx7 ones. Too bad Nv doesn't really care, 3d gamers are a minority on their own, but 3d gamers, who want to play old titles are obviously even fewer, so why concern themselves.
#4
Posted 12/13/2011 08:42 AM   
I don't think it's a matter of Nvidia caring, but simply a matter resources / time. They care, because they interact with the community and do what they can to get the features we want based on what is economically feasible and productive in their daily, monthly, yearly duties.

The other problem is asking the question of what amount of resources, time, money, and effort would it take to get the old implementation up to snuff with modern driver builds. Windows Vista was not an easy transition, and it broke what they had to get a stable driver on that platform. So there seems to be some historical contingencies that were at work there other than Nvidia just dumping the idea as a broozed nerve to the 3D end user.
I don't think it's a matter of Nvidia caring, but simply a matter resources / time. They care, because they interact with the community and do what they can to get the features we want based on what is economically feasible and productive in their daily, monthly, yearly duties.



The other problem is asking the question of what amount of resources, time, money, and effort would it take to get the old implementation up to snuff with modern driver builds. Windows Vista was not an easy transition, and it broke what they had to get a stable driver on that platform. So there seems to be some historical contingencies that were at work there other than Nvidia just dumping the idea as a broozed nerve to the 3D end user.

#5
Posted 12/13/2011 03:06 PM   
Didn't nVidia drivers used to support OpenGL for 3D?
Didn't nVidia drivers used to support OpenGL for 3D?

#6
Posted 12/13/2011 03:36 PM   
cyberheater,
Yes that is exactly what I'm referring to in my last post. A few of us on the forum use another comp or dual boot to Win XP 32bit and the old Nvidia driver to play OpenGL / DirectX 7 games up to Doom 3 or so.
cyberheater,

Yes that is exactly what I'm referring to in my last post. A few of us on the forum use another comp or dual boot to Win XP 32bit and the old Nvidia driver to play OpenGL / DirectX 7 games up to Doom 3 or so.

#7
Posted 12/13/2011 04:45 PM   
I honestly doubt nvidia will ever do it. Only way to get something like this done is for someone to do it themselves and have community donate to help. Id glady donate the cost of a retail game for results that would work towards kotor and jade empire. Really wanted to get another playthrough in them before they got to aged. However 2d turns me off esp in old titles.

Nvidia is great for their constant updates of profiles/fixes. They've also been pushing 3d onto a lot of developers lately which is nice. However I really doubt they will upgrade the software. The only changes in 2 years was 3d tv play which is just 3d vision for tvs and 3d website. Thats it. Though every 6 months they say they are working on an update with tons of new features lol.
I honestly doubt nvidia will ever do it. Only way to get something like this done is for someone to do it themselves and have community donate to help. Id glady donate the cost of a retail game for results that would work towards kotor and jade empire. Really wanted to get another playthrough in them before they got to aged. However 2d turns me off esp in old titles.



Nvidia is great for their constant updates of profiles/fixes. They've also been pushing 3d onto a lot of developers lately which is nice. However I really doubt they will upgrade the software. The only changes in 2 years was 3d tv play which is just 3d vision for tvs and 3d website. Thats it. Though every 6 months they say they are working on an update with tons of new features lol.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#8
Posted 12/13/2011 05:10 PM   
I personally do not have a strong desire to see Nvidia bring back OpenGL stereo support due to the lack of relevant titles. Sure for nostalgia sake it would be cool to go back and play KOTOR and the few other OpenGL titles I own that don't work with GLDirect, but I wouldn't want to see Nvidia cut back on their efforts to get current and future titles working with 3D Vision just to bring us OpenGL stereo support.

I do however sympathize with legacy 3D users who had stereo OpenGL support with older drivers/hardware and then had it cut somewhere around the Vista/G80 transition. I can understand the possible rationale Nvidia used to cut OpenGL stereo, but still hate to see existing functional support of features cut or scaled back as it ultimately results in fewer choices for the consumer.

As I stated though in the linked post, I just don't see the relevance anymore of OpenGL as a shipping runtime. iD and Carmack were pretty much the only ones holding onto OpenGL as a matter of principle (or something like that), and there's a good chance they're done as a studio that actually makes games.

I think the best option will be to get in touch with some of the OpenGL to DirectX wrapper authors and see if they are willing to fill in the missing extensions for newer OpenGL titles. Once OpenGL is completely abandoned in shipping titles, there will be a finite window of extensions from Doom 3 to Rage that need to be supported (current wrapper versions work for games prior to Doom 3) so that should help them narrow their focus. I'm sure any donations or funding efforts focused toward that cause might yield the best results; if enough people donated they might make it a greater priority since I'm pretty sure work is all done on the side.

Maybe someone can get in touch with the authors, gauge interest of everyone involved, consolidate it in a single thread and see if this effort can get off the ground? Here's the threads and authors of the OpenGL wrappers:

[b]TitaniumGL - Geri[/b]
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=198042&st=0

[b]GLDirect - Si02[/b]
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=193627
I personally do not have a strong desire to see Nvidia bring back OpenGL stereo support due to the lack of relevant titles. Sure for nostalgia sake it would be cool to go back and play KOTOR and the few other OpenGL titles I own that don't work with GLDirect, but I wouldn't want to see Nvidia cut back on their efforts to get current and future titles working with 3D Vision just to bring us OpenGL stereo support.



I do however sympathize with legacy 3D users who had stereo OpenGL support with older drivers/hardware and then had it cut somewhere around the Vista/G80 transition. I can understand the possible rationale Nvidia used to cut OpenGL stereo, but still hate to see existing functional support of features cut or scaled back as it ultimately results in fewer choices for the consumer.



As I stated though in the linked post, I just don't see the relevance anymore of OpenGL as a shipping runtime. iD and Carmack were pretty much the only ones holding onto OpenGL as a matter of principle (or something like that), and there's a good chance they're done as a studio that actually makes games.



I think the best option will be to get in touch with some of the OpenGL to DirectX wrapper authors and see if they are willing to fill in the missing extensions for newer OpenGL titles. Once OpenGL is completely abandoned in shipping titles, there will be a finite window of extensions from Doom 3 to Rage that need to be supported (current wrapper versions work for games prior to Doom 3) so that should help them narrow their focus. I'm sure any donations or funding efforts focused toward that cause might yield the best results; if enough people donated they might make it a greater priority since I'm pretty sure work is all done on the side.



Maybe someone can get in touch with the authors, gauge interest of everyone involved, consolidate it in a single thread and see if this effort can get off the ground? Here's the threads and authors of the OpenGL wrappers:



TitaniumGL - Geri

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=198042&st=0



GLDirect - Si02

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=193627

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#9
Posted 12/13/2011 06:53 PM   
I remember at one point the developer of gldirect was looking for 3d vision equipment. Perhaps if someone found out and if he is still interested in project we could help fund it a bit.
I remember at one point the developer of gldirect was looking for 3d vision equipment. Perhaps if someone found out and if he is still interested in project we could help fund it a bit.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#10
Posted 12/13/2011 07:10 PM   
[quote name='eqzitara' date='13 December 2011 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1323803420' post='1341865']
I remember at one point the developer of gldirect was looking for 3d vision equipment. Perhaps if someone found out and if he is still interested in project we could help fund it a bit.
[/quote]

I would like to see OpenGL support reimplemented primarily for DOOM 3 engine games. But also for other titles that may run in OpenGL without your knowing it, like Dogfighter on steam and Amnesia\Penumbra.

If Andrew could just either tell us definitively yes it will happen or no it won't, it would end the years of speculation and unmaterialized hopes.
[quote name='eqzitara' date='13 December 2011 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1323803420' post='1341865']

I remember at one point the developer of gldirect was looking for 3d vision equipment. Perhaps if someone found out and if he is still interested in project we could help fund it a bit.





I would like to see OpenGL support reimplemented primarily for DOOM 3 engine games. But also for other titles that may run in OpenGL without your knowing it, like Dogfighter on steam and Amnesia\Penumbra.



If Andrew could just either tell us definitively yes it will happen or no it won't, it would end the years of speculation and unmaterialized hopes.

AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision

#11
Posted 12/14/2011 07:00 AM   
I'd like to see OpenGL support added as well... I play a game called City of Heroes that uses OpenGL, and it would be amazing to play that game in 3D.
I'd like to see OpenGL support added as well... I play a game called City of Heroes that uses OpenGL, and it would be amazing to play that game in 3D.

#12
Posted 12/15/2011 05:54 AM   
Amnesia and Penumbra would be great, but I would also like to finish Doom3, Q4 and Prey, these were awesome in s-3d, but my machine was lacking the horsepower to play them at more than 6x4 res.
As far as the resource/financing issue goes, yes Nvidia needs to dedicate these for OGL implementation in the new drivers, but at least they woun't be starting from scratch and they have some know-how, which is more than DDD and iz3d have.
Personally I'm excited for the new Unlimited Atom tech and what can be done with it, suffice it to say that if it is compatible with s-3d and it can be implemented in an actual game it will mean the rebirth realtime CGI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxtuZE5pOGA
You could also check out the Atomontage Engine, there are s-3d shots on the developer's page.
Amnesia and Penumbra would be great, but I would also like to finish Doom3, Q4 and Prey, these were awesome in s-3d, but my machine was lacking the horsepower to play them at more than 6x4 res.

As far as the resource/financing issue goes, yes Nvidia needs to dedicate these for OGL implementation in the new drivers, but at least they woun't be starting from scratch and they have some know-how, which is more than DDD and iz3d have.

Personally I'm excited for the new Unlimited Atom tech and what can be done with it, suffice it to say that if it is compatible with s-3d and it can be implemented in an actual game it will mean the rebirth realtime CGI.



You could also check out the Atomontage Engine, there are s-3d shots on the developer's page.
#13
Posted 12/15/2011 09:53 AM   
One big reason it is needed is for users who need 3D for OpenGL CAD type applications. Also, users that need scientific visualisation capability. These applications almost all use OpenGL, and many of us have very expensive Quadro cards that work brilliantly with the card. It would be great to get a 3D monitor and 3D vision to use these apps, however, this would only work with a Geforce card. Not to mention that 3D vision doesn't work with OpenGL so there's no point really.
One big reason it is needed is for users who need 3D for OpenGL CAD type applications. Also, users that need scientific visualisation capability. These applications almost all use OpenGL, and many of us have very expensive Quadro cards that work brilliantly with the card. It would be great to get a 3D monitor and 3D vision to use these apps, however, this would only work with a Geforce card. Not to mention that 3D vision doesn't work with OpenGL so there's no point really.

#14
Posted 06/02/2012 08:45 PM   
I would like to play Doom 3 and Quake IV in 3D sometime in my lifetime without having to resort to ancient hardware and Windows XP.

But at the rate that Nvidia is going with the feature updates it will be implemented by the time the next ice age rolls around. It's pretty obvious that OpenGL already worked with the old forceware 3D and 3D Vision is clearly built on top of that. Of course I'd also like to see DX6-DX7 support too.

Way I see it is all of us who bought 3D Vision were early adopters, and we've waited a long time for these features. So make it worth our while already.
I would like to play Doom 3 and Quake IV in 3D sometime in my lifetime without having to resort to ancient hardware and Windows XP.



But at the rate that Nvidia is going with the feature updates it will be implemented by the time the next ice age rolls around. It's pretty obvious that OpenGL already worked with the old forceware 3D and 3D Vision is clearly built on top of that. Of course I'd also like to see DX6-DX7 support too.



Way I see it is all of us who bought 3D Vision were early adopters, and we've waited a long time for these features. So make it worth our while already.

AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision

#15
Posted 06/02/2012 10:32 PM   
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