3d Associations/Lobby Groups
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What do you mean by speaking at a forum?

Are you at a podium?

Thanks for your input!

Regards,
Chopper
What do you mean by speaking at a forum?



Are you at a podium?



Thanks for your input!



Regards,

Chopper

#16
Posted 06/24/2006 02:11 PM   
Sorry for my english. I said "I´m speaking in a Stereo3D forum"...

Speaking=writting, and I´m writting here, and this is a Nvidia forum for Stereo3D people (and all people interested in stereo drivers).

I said "you all know what I´m thinking" because you all have experienced stereo3D gaming.

Sorry, I thought it was clear.
Sorry for my english. I said "I´m speaking in a Stereo3D forum"...



Speaking=writting, and I´m writting here, and this is a Nvidia forum for Stereo3D people (and all people interested in stereo drivers).



I said "you all know what I´m thinking" because you all have experienced stereo3D gaming.



Sorry, I thought it was clear.

#17
Posted 06/24/2006 04:00 PM   
Hi Guys,

I'm working on a business case, and I'd like your input to make sure I'm painting an accurate picture.

First, go to this link:

[url="http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/03/02/how_much_graphics_power_does_a_pc_really_need/page4.html"]http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/03/02/how...need/page4.html[/url]

Here goes:

Out of 180,000,000 computers sold in 2004, 40% of them were actively interested in a mid-range to fast videocard (40,000,000 units).

NVIDIA accounts for 18.6% of these units - 7,440,000 units.

We are nowhere near it, but of these units, we would eventually like to see 5% using a stereoscopic solution.

That's 372,000 units.

372,000 will likely spend a minimum $250 per year to upgrade their videocard equipment to keep up with the harsher gaming and stereo compatibility requirements.

372,000 is less than 1% of the estimated 5,000,000 hardcore gamers shared between manufacturers, and based on my calculations, would account for at least $93,000,000 US per year in videocard revenue.

Now, I know the goggles are on their way out given the LCD limitations, but we are starting to see reasonable 3D display solutions for under $500 to $1,000 per monitor.

If a monitor lasts three or more years, that's a pretty good investment for the hardcore gamer.

Before I got further on this, does the above make sense - or am I in fantasy land?

Does anyone out there have a more updated outlined or resource for actual videocard units sold by NVIDIA?

Regards,
Chopper
Hi Guys,



I'm working on a business case, and I'd like your input to make sure I'm painting an accurate picture.



First, go to this link:



http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/03/02/how...need/page4.html



Here goes:



Out of 180,000,000 computers sold in 2004, 40% of them were actively interested in a mid-range to fast videocard (40,000,000 units).



NVIDIA accounts for 18.6% of these units - 7,440,000 units.



We are nowhere near it, but of these units, we would eventually like to see 5% using a stereoscopic solution.



That's 372,000 units.



372,000 will likely spend a minimum $250 per year to upgrade their videocard equipment to keep up with the harsher gaming and stereo compatibility requirements.



372,000 is less than 1% of the estimated 5,000,000 hardcore gamers shared between manufacturers, and based on my calculations, would account for at least $93,000,000 US per year in videocard revenue.



Now, I know the goggles are on their way out given the LCD limitations, but we are starting to see reasonable 3D display solutions for under $500 to $1,000 per monitor.



If a monitor lasts three or more years, that's a pretty good investment for the hardcore gamer.



Before I got further on this, does the above make sense - or am I in fantasy land?



Does anyone out there have a more updated outlined or resource for actual videocard units sold by NVIDIA?



Regards,

Chopper

#18
Posted 06/24/2006 06:50 PM   
This 2005 article states 100 million GPUs had been sold in total by Nvidia in the 12 months prior to that quotation. If there are sales figures you can perhaps find for Nvidia powered consoles sold in that year (assuming you know which console has them), then in theory that should give the remainder sold to the PC market.

[url="http://games.techwhack.com/128/25050512-nvidia-says-graphic-processors-profitable-than-consoles/"]http://games.techwhack.com/128/25050512-nv...-than-consoles/[/url]
This 2005 article states 100 million GPUs had been sold in total by Nvidia in the 12 months prior to that quotation. If there are sales figures you can perhaps find for Nvidia powered consoles sold in that year (assuming you know which console has them), then in theory that should give the remainder sold to the PC market.



http://games.techwhack.com/128/25050512-nv...-than-consoles/

Intel Core i7 4770k @ 4.4Ghz, 3x GTX Titan, 16GB Tactical Tracer LED, CPU/GPU Dual-Loop Water-Cooled - Driver 331.82, DX11.0

#19
Posted 06/24/2006 08:09 PM   
Very interesting.

I'll keep number crunching....

Regards,
Chopper
Very interesting.



I'll keep number crunching....



Regards,

Chopper

#20
Posted 06/24/2006 08:13 PM   
Just wanted to let you know that I started to make some calls, and I have been well received so far.

I'll let you know if anything major happens.

Regards,
Chopper
Just wanted to let you know that I started to make some calls, and I have been well received so far.



I'll let you know if anything major happens.



Regards,

Chopper

#21
Posted 06/27/2006 02:59 AM   
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 27 2006, 03:59 AM']Just wanted to let you know that I started to make some calls, and I have been well received so far.

I'll let you know if anything major happens.

Regards,
Chopper
[right][post="97927"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
Great!!

One thing I have been thinking of is the effects that will be added in newer games, like bloom, water effects like shiny halos etc. that can be added by rendering to texture to be processed instead of to the frame buffer directly. I don't see why this cannot be done for two textures (eyes), maybe memory (or maximum size of a texture) constraints on lower memory cards?
The main reason I use nVidia cards is that it is the only option for stereo viewing on my Emagin Z800 (bought before the 40% price drop bah!). Only reason I still use a geforce 6600 GT is that from what I read it is the second fastest (after geForce 6800GT) option for AGP with proper (non-beta) stereo support.

I don't see why it is so hard to make stereo drivers that work perfectly, only if you optimise them so things (like bloom, geometry setup etc.) can be done for 2 images instead of one I see nasty complications.

All the driver needs to do is to keep all objects in 3d scene the same (same time step in the game), but move the camera and change its angle and create the second image. Maybe there are some more complications like make sure that post processing is done in exactly the same way as the previous image. Make sure that double/triple buffering is done properly.

What I would be satisfied with is a very clean driver with the option to switch off all optimizations so all it does is render twice at the same geometry but shifted camera. This driver should have 2 options:
1) SLI where one card renders one image for one eye and the other card the other image so you do not have any stereo performance hit compared to a mono non-SLI setup.
2) For single card, performance is cut by 50% compared to non-stereo because *everything* in the graphics pipeline, including post processing etc. is done twice after geometry setup. No optimizations that could hurt compatibility and no steps are skipped. The only difference in the frames should be the camera angle and position. The 50% drop is no problem since the Z800 has a low resolution anyways so framerates will be decently high anyways.

As long as this is done in a neat way it might be much easier to support future drivers where all sorts of post processing effects will be added. Better a slightly more expensive option with perfect stereo support than things that don't work half of the time and having to buy older generation cards because they are supported better. Looks like a very attractive option for nVidia as well as the SLI sales will go up as well. Of course the non-SLI drivers should be added too, but I realise that the memory management might be harder to do right in that case.

Anyways sorry for my rambling, I really hope this driver situation will improve so I can get a new graphics card (or 2 maybe if I choose the SLI option) soon!

p.s. Does anyone know if the half-text problem in neverwinter nights is solved with one of those new beta drivers? :)
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 27 2006, 03:59 AM']Just wanted to let you know that I started to make some calls, and I have been well received so far.



I'll let you know if anything major happens.



Regards,

Chopper

[post="97927"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Great!!



One thing I have been thinking of is the effects that will be added in newer games, like bloom, water effects like shiny halos etc. that can be added by rendering to texture to be processed instead of to the frame buffer directly. I don't see why this cannot be done for two textures (eyes), maybe memory (or maximum size of a texture) constraints on lower memory cards?

The main reason I use nVidia cards is that it is the only option for stereo viewing on my Emagin Z800 (bought before the 40% price drop bah!). Only reason I still use a geforce 6600 GT is that from what I read it is the second fastest (after geForce 6800GT) option for AGP with proper (non-beta) stereo support.



I don't see why it is so hard to make stereo drivers that work perfectly, only if you optimise them so things (like bloom, geometry setup etc.) can be done for 2 images instead of one I see nasty complications.



All the driver needs to do is to keep all objects in 3d scene the same (same time step in the game), but move the camera and change its angle and create the second image. Maybe there are some more complications like make sure that post processing is done in exactly the same way as the previous image. Make sure that double/triple buffering is done properly.



What I would be satisfied with is a very clean driver with the option to switch off all optimizations so all it does is render twice at the same geometry but shifted camera. This driver should have 2 options:

1) SLI where one card renders one image for one eye and the other card the other image so you do not have any stereo performance hit compared to a mono non-SLI setup.

2) For single card, performance is cut by 50% compared to non-stereo because *everything* in the graphics pipeline, including post processing etc. is done twice after geometry setup. No optimizations that could hurt compatibility and no steps are skipped. The only difference in the frames should be the camera angle and position. The 50% drop is no problem since the Z800 has a low resolution anyways so framerates will be decently high anyways.



As long as this is done in a neat way it might be much easier to support future drivers where all sorts of post processing effects will be added. Better a slightly more expensive option with perfect stereo support than things that don't work half of the time and having to buy older generation cards because they are supported better. Looks like a very attractive option for nVidia as well as the SLI sales will go up as well. Of course the non-SLI drivers should be added too, but I realise that the memory management might be harder to do right in that case.



Anyways sorry for my rambling, I really hope this driver situation will improve so I can get a new graphics card (or 2 maybe if I choose the SLI option) soon!



p.s. Does anyone know if the half-text problem in neverwinter nights is solved with one of those new beta drivers? :)

#22
Posted 06/28/2006 11:42 AM   
Hi Guys,

An opportunity has crossed my desk that may allow me to produce an "advocacy group" website.

I know there are other stereo sites in existence today, but in my private life, I have some strong connections that would help give some leverage and clout to what we are doing.

If it can be done, I would have a central website where members can subscribe for free. With time, members can benefit from game discounts, news, and actual impact on the videogame publishing industry.

If we can muster enough members, it could give us the leverage we need to get things going.

If I put these efforts through, would you join, and what steps can you take to promote the endeavor?

How many users would you estimate are out there who would be game to participate?

Regards,
Chopper
Hi Guys,



An opportunity has crossed my desk that may allow me to produce an "advocacy group" website.



I know there are other stereo sites in existence today, but in my private life, I have some strong connections that would help give some leverage and clout to what we are doing.



If it can be done, I would have a central website where members can subscribe for free. With time, members can benefit from game discounts, news, and actual impact on the videogame publishing industry.



If we can muster enough members, it could give us the leverage we need to get things going.



If I put these efforts through, would you join, and what steps can you take to promote the endeavor?



How many users would you estimate are out there who would be game to participate?



Regards,

Chopper

#23
Posted 06/28/2006 08:37 PM   
Chopper, check out what I have to say about Stereo ready games
[url="http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.php?topic=2589&forum=2&3"]http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.p...=2589&forum=2&3[/url]
Chopper, check out what I have to say about Stereo ready games

http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.p...=2589&forum=2&3
#24
Posted 06/30/2006 09:55 AM   
Hi, Chopper,

I am responding to your posting below, I am not sure if you have heard about www.iz3d.com, manufacturers of new 3D LCD monitors, designed specifically for gamers.

Please check the web site and if you have any quesions feel free to email me directly at david@neurokoptics.com.

Best Regards,

David



[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 23 2006, 09:40 AM']Hi guys,

Having slept on this (and I didn't get enough sleep), I think there is enough here to work with - but I need your help in sizing up the industry.

In this thread, can you let me know what manufacturers are selling and creating 3D equipment that is based on the NVIDIA drivers?

I'm not interested in companies that no longer exist.

The equipment I'm interested in includes 3D monitors, glasses, projectors (that are promoting themselves as 3D projectors), VR helmets, everything.

It's very important that these companies have the videogames market in mind with their products - not professional stuff.

I work full time, so I need your help in getting this info.

Regards,
Chopper :magic:
[right][post="97306"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
Hi, Chopper,



I am responding to your posting below, I am not sure if you have heard about www.iz3d.com, manufacturers of new 3D LCD monitors, designed specifically for gamers.



Please check the web site and if you have any quesions feel free to email me directly at david@neurokoptics.com.



Best Regards,



David







[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 23 2006, 09:40 AM']Hi guys,



Having slept on this (and I didn't get enough sleep), I think there is enough here to work with - but I need your help in sizing up the industry.



In this thread, can you let me know what manufacturers are selling and creating 3D equipment that is based on the NVIDIA drivers?



I'm not interested in companies that no longer exist.



The equipment I'm interested in includes 3D monitors, glasses, projectors (that are promoting themselves as 3D projectors), VR helmets, everything.



It's very important that these companies have the videogames market in mind with their products - not professional stuff.



I work full time, so I need your help in getting this info.



Regards,

Chopper :magic:

[post="97306"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

#25
Posted 06/30/2006 10:01 PM   
I'll definitely join as a member of this "advocacy group" and do whatever I can at the time to promote it . I would say most of stereogamers will join . Getting something like this set up is hardwork but once it's launched it's hard not to jump on the wagon . Stereogamers that I know seem to be a busy bunch (in their private life) but is capable and willing (with their wallet that is). You build it and they will come in droves. Applause fully to your dedication and smart plan .
Perl

[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 28 2006, 12:37 PM']Hi Guys,

An opportunity has crossed my desk that may allow me to produce an "advocacy group" website.

I know there are other stereo sites in existence today, but in my private life, I have some strong connections that would help give some leverage and clout to what we are doing.

If it can be done, I would have a central website where members can subscribe for free. With time, members can benefit from game discounts, news, and actual impact on the videogame publishing industry.

If we can muster enough members, it could give us the leverage we need to get things going.

If I put these efforts through, would you join, and what steps can you take to promote the endeavor?

How many users would you estimate are out there who would be game to participate?

Regards,
Chopper
[right][post="98301"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
I'll definitely join as a member of this "advocacy group" and do whatever I can at the time to promote it . I would say most of stereogamers will join . Getting something like this set up is hardwork but once it's launched it's hard not to jump on the wagon . Stereogamers that I know seem to be a busy bunch (in their private life) but is capable and willing (with their wallet that is). You build it and they will come in droves. Applause fully to your dedication and smart plan .

Perl



[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 28 2006, 12:37 PM']Hi Guys,



An opportunity has crossed my desk that may allow me to produce an "advocacy group" website.



I know there are other stereo sites in existence today, but in my private life, I have some strong connections that would help give some leverage and clout to what we are doing.



If it can be done, I would have a central website where members can subscribe for free. With time, members can benefit from game discounts, news, and actual impact on the videogame publishing industry.



If we can muster enough members, it could give us the leverage we need to get things going.



If I put these efforts through, would you join, and what steps can you take to promote the endeavor?



How many users would you estimate are out there who would be game to participate?



Regards,

Chopper

[post="98301"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

#26
Posted 07/01/2006 02:42 AM   
[quote name='perllog' date='Jun 30 2006, 10:42 PM']I'll definitely join as a member of this "advocacy group" and do whatever I can at the time to promote it . I would say most of stereogamers will join . Getting something like this set up is hardwork but once it's launched it's hard not to jump on the wagon . Stereogamers that I know seem to be a busy bunch (in their private life) but is capable and willing (with their wallet that is).  You build it and they will come in droves. Applause fully to your dedication and smart plan .
Perl
[right][post="98858"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Excellent.

We need to put a list of forums and websites that gamers go to in droves.

Don't post anything about this yet. I need to get some things set up.

Regards,
Chopper
[quote name='perllog' date='Jun 30 2006, 10:42 PM']I'll definitely join as a member of this "advocacy group" and do whatever I can at the time to promote it . I would say most of stereogamers will join . Getting something like this set up is hardwork but once it's launched it's hard not to jump on the wagon . Stereogamers that I know seem to be a busy bunch (in their private life) but is capable and willing (with their wallet that is).  You build it and they will come in droves. Applause fully to your dedication and smart plan .

Perl

[post="98858"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]






Excellent.



We need to put a list of forums and websites that gamers go to in droves.



Don't post anything about this yet. I need to get some things set up.



Regards,

Chopper

#27
Posted 07/01/2006 02:53 AM   
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 22 2006, 08:51 PM']I'm going to put more thought into this. Perhaps NVIDIA's marketing team would be open to talking to me - though I think introducing myself as "Chopper" is out of the question.  :lol:

Regards,
Chopper :magic:
[right][post="97213"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Only one – a meat-chopper or a wood chopper /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' /> ??? I suppose a meat-chopper will be more impressive /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 23 2006, 08:40 AM']Hi guys,

In this thread, can you let me know what manufacturers are selling and creating 3D equipment that is based on the NVIDIA drivers?

Regards,
Chopper :magic:
[right][post="97306"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Collection of links to developers of 3D hardware: [url="http://www.really.ru/eng/links.php?t=sub_pages&cat=14"]http://www.really.ru/eng/links.php?t=sub_pages&cat=14[/url]
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 22 2006, 08:51 PM']I'm going to put more thought into this. Perhaps NVIDIA's marketing team would be open to talking to me - though I think introducing myself as "Chopper" is out of the question.  :lol:



Regards,

Chopper :magic:

[post="97213"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




Only one – a meat-chopper or a wood chopper /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' /> ??? I suppose a meat-chopper will be more impressive /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />



[quote name='Chopper' date='Jun 23 2006, 08:40 AM']Hi guys,



In this thread, can you let me know what manufacturers are selling and creating 3D equipment that is based on the NVIDIA drivers?



Regards,

Chopper :magic:

[post="97306"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




Collection of links to developers of 3D hardware: http://www.really.ru/eng/links.php?t=sub_pages&cat=14
#28
Posted 07/03/2006 06:36 PM   
[quote name='V.S.' date='Jul 3 2006, 02:36 PM']Only one – a meat-chopper or a wood chopper  /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />  ??? I suppose a  meat-chopper will be more impressive  /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
Collection of links to developers of  3D hardware: [url="http://www.really.ru/eng/links.php?t=sub_pages&cat=14"]http://www.really.ru/eng/links.php?t=sub_pages&cat=14[/url]
[right][post="99327"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Awsome! This is a great link!

Chopper :magic:
[quote name='V.S.' date='Jul 3 2006, 02:36 PM']Only one – a meat-chopper or a wood chopper  /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />  ??? I suppose a  meat-chopper will be more impressive  /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

Collection of links to developers of  3D hardware: http://www.really.ru/eng/links.php?t=sub_pages&cat=14

[post="99327"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]






Awsome! This is a great link!



Chopper :magic:

#29
Posted 07/04/2006 04:46 PM   
Hi Chopper,
Has there been any activity regarding this advocacy group?
I am interested in hearing more about it if possible.
Thanks.
-Nate

[quote name='Chopper' date='Jul 4 2006, 08:46 AM']Awsome! This is a great link!

Chopper :magic:
[right][snapback]99499[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Hi Chopper,

Has there been any activity regarding this advocacy group?

I am interested in hearing more about it if possible.

Thanks.

-Nate



[quote name='Chopper' date='Jul 4 2006, 08:46 AM']Awsome! This is a great link!



Chopper :magic:

[snapback]99499[/snapback]


#30
Posted 02/16/2007 04:45 PM   
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