3d effects: "outside" or "inside" the monitor?
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Ok guys! Got my hands on my Acer GD245HQ and 3d vision glasses and tried out some games. But honestly based on the trailers and images I had the idea that mostly the 3d effects should give me the illusion of things popping out of my monitor. In the contrary, 98% of the game effects are created in depth "inside" the monitor. Now basically mine is just curiosity: is there any game that can create this popping out 3d effects or this is how it's meant to be?
Ok guys! Got my hands on my Acer GD245HQ and 3d vision glasses and tried out some games. But honestly based on the trailers and images I had the idea that mostly the 3d effects should give me the illusion of things popping out of my monitor. In the contrary, 98% of the game effects are created in depth "inside" the monitor. Now basically mine is just curiosity: is there any game that can create this popping out 3d effects or this is how it's meant to be?

#1
Posted 04/30/2010 06:35 PM   
Popping is only marketing trick to show something on marketing materials.

In some games you can change so called convergence with advanced key shortcuts - shifting things in/out monitor.
Popping is only marketing trick to show something on marketing materials.



In some games you can change so called convergence with advanced key shortcuts - shifting things in/out monitor.

#2
Posted 04/30/2010 06:37 PM   
I usually adjust convergence so I can have pop-out for things up close and still allow for a lot of depth. It is quite possible to have both worlds in most games. It is one of the reasons I like to set max depth over 100%.

I hear people complain about lack of pop-out all of the time, but it is a cinch to get pop-out with convergence settings, so I'm not sure what the deal is..
I usually adjust convergence so I can have pop-out for things up close and still allow for a lot of depth. It is quite possible to have both worlds in most games. It is one of the reasons I like to set max depth over 100%.



I hear people complain about lack of pop-out all of the time, but it is a cinch to get pop-out with convergence settings, so I'm not sure what the deal is..

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#3
Posted 04/30/2010 07:59 PM   
Hi

I have attached some examples from the nVidia screensaver Geoforms. If you touch the objects then reach forward until you hit the screen you get the idea of popout. I find popout to be subtle in games. I only adjust convergence because I like the toy effect that results from adding convergence to 100% depth settings. :)
Hi



I have attached some examples from the nVidia screensaver Geoforms. If you touch the objects then reach forward until you hit the screen you get the idea of popout. I find popout to be subtle in games. I only adjust convergence because I like the toy effect that results from adding convergence to 100% depth settings. :)

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
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#4
Posted 04/30/2010 08:06 PM   
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1048183' date='Apr 30 2010, 09:59 PM']I usually adjust convergence so I can have pop-out for things up close and still allow for a lot of depth. It is quite possible to have both worlds in most games. It is one of the reasons I like to set max depth over 100%.

I hear people complain about lack of pop-out all of the time, but it is a cinch to get pop-out with convergence settings, so I'm not sure what the deal is..[/quote]
Dito!
3D is about seeing volumetric depth. Some things appear in front of the screen, some behind, no more, no less. The whole with 3d is that the screen itself should be "invisible" and that you're looking straight into a world in 3d. Just because it's 3d doesn't mean you get things thrown into the face all the time. One perfect movieexample is avatar btw. 3d is excellent and you're enjoying every minute of it. Yet those really "popouting" moments almost never occur at all.
Whether or not you have popout in games depends on the games, the gameengine and your settings. Some have plenty of those moments while some other might not.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1048183' date='Apr 30 2010, 09:59 PM']I usually adjust convergence so I can have pop-out for things up close and still allow for a lot of depth. It is quite possible to have both worlds in most games. It is one of the reasons I like to set max depth over 100%.



I hear people complain about lack of pop-out all of the time, but it is a cinch to get pop-out with convergence settings, so I'm not sure what the deal is..

Dito!

3D is about seeing volumetric depth. Some things appear in front of the screen, some behind, no more, no less. The whole with 3d is that the screen itself should be "invisible" and that you're looking straight into a world in 3d. Just because it's 3d doesn't mean you get things thrown into the face all the time. One perfect movieexample is avatar btw. 3d is excellent and you're enjoying every minute of it. Yet those really "popouting" moments almost never occur at all.

Whether or not you have popout in games depends on the games, the gameengine and your settings. Some have plenty of those moments while some other might not.

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#5
Posted 04/30/2010 08:12 PM   
One thing to consider is do you really want it to pop out or...? If I'm sitting 2-3 feet from my monitor and I'm looking into a room, it would be totally unrealistic for the wall 10 feet away from me to be popping up into the space within 2 feet of my eyes.

Do you want to french kiss the enemies in a game or do you want 3d?
One thing to consider is do you really want it to pop out or...? If I'm sitting 2-3 feet from my monitor and I'm looking into a room, it would be totally unrealistic for the wall 10 feet away from me to be popping up into the space within 2 feet of my eyes.



Do you want to french kiss the enemies in a game or do you want 3d?

#6
Posted 04/30/2010 08:40 PM   
[quote name='vvx' post='1048206' date='Apr 30 2010, 09:40 PM']Do you want to french kiss the enemies in a game[/quote]
LOL

Alot of people starting their 3D journey- understandably, the first thing they look for is popout, and many are initially disappointed. Once you get the hang of setting depth and convergence you can achieve both depth and popout.

Once you get over the initial wow factor, setting depth for a more realistic environment will become the prime concern

Along with this forum, which has a amzaingly helpfull community - these sites are also very helpful when starting out with and for seasoned 3dgamers

[url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/"]MTBS 3D[/url]
[url="http://3dvision-blog.com/"]3D Blog[/url]
[i]and my own site[/i]
[url="http://www.solutiongaming.co.uk"]SolutionGaming[/url]
[quote name='vvx' post='1048206' date='Apr 30 2010, 09:40 PM']Do you want to french kiss the enemies in a game

LOL



Alot of people starting their 3D journey- understandably, the first thing they look for is popout, and many are initially disappointed. Once you get the hang of setting depth and convergence you can achieve both depth and popout.



Once you get over the initial wow factor, setting depth for a more realistic environment will become the prime concern



Along with this forum, which has a amzaingly helpfull community - these sites are also very helpful when starting out with and for seasoned 3dgamers



MTBS 3D

3D Blog

and my own site

SolutionGaming

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3D website dedicated soley for nvidia 3D Vision

Visit 3dSolutionGaming.com for an A-Z listing of 3D streaming video's, automated slideshows, download packs and common fixes for 3dvision gamers.

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http://helixmod.blogspot.com/

#7
Posted 04/30/2010 09:42 PM   
[quote name='solutiongaming' post='1048230' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:42 PM']Once you get over the initial wow factor, setting depth for a more realistic environment will become the prime concern[/quote]
Or, if you are like me, you will be hunting for that elusive toy effect you get from having 100% and cranking up convergence. When I first notice it happening in GTA4 I thought whats happened to my game! The cars looked like scalextrics and peds looked like little model people. But now I love it. It is really distinctive and makes the world look strangly HD! It's also something only S3D gamers can achieve. ;)
[quote name='solutiongaming' post='1048230' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:42 PM']Once you get over the initial wow factor, setting depth for a more realistic environment will become the prime concern

Or, if you are like me, you will be hunting for that elusive toy effect you get from having 100% and cranking up convergence. When I first notice it happening in GTA4 I thought whats happened to my game! The cars looked like scalextrics and peds looked like little model people. But now I love it. It is really distinctive and makes the world look strangly HD! It's also something only S3D gamers can achieve. ;)

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#8
Posted 04/30/2010 10:14 PM   
I have easy thousand hours logged on my set-up now (2233+nv glasses) which should grant me some legitamacy in my post so here goes

Some people will agree with me on this and some will feel differently then I do in regards to how depth and convergence should be implemented in both movies and games. I feel that the perfect movie/game should be made to exists in both “your world” / convergence and bring you into “their world” /depth. You should not need to set depth or convergence (we still will because they never give us enough of either with factory settings). We may not have the horsepower right now but a few years from now and a few new versions/models of components and this should be achievable imo. This is where I think 3d needs to move to. Convergence should be visually as apparent as depth is all the time WITH splashes of “pop out”
Depth has always had the upper hand in 3d because it’s the first thing you will see upon donning your glasses, one second its just flat and the next the wall disappears and your viewing INTO this amazing world. I personally think there should be a difference between the meaning of pop out and convergence. When you say Pop-out it makes me think of a cheap parlour trick, where as convergence would imply something that is always present coming from the screen but not necessarily AT you (Pop-Out) all the time.
I will use a movie to help illustrate an example for you of how I suggest it could be implemented. You are sitting in front of your big screen 3d TV watching a scene where a passenger jet is flying in really stormy night sky. The Plane will at one moment be present inside the screen(depth), now without and setting change the plane will leave the “depth” of the screen and now appear to sway and buck within your living room (convergence) and then, before your eyes, buck and roll back into the depth of the screen. The whole time this is happening bolts of lighting are crackling and flashing, some appear in your living room, perhaps even shooting directly at you causing you to jump in your seat (pop out) while strikes can also be seen happening in the depth of the screen. Storm clouds will be always present in the living room and extend into the screen. Convergence should not be the retarded little sibling that is hidden in the attic and only brought down for special occasions. I say, let that little retard out to run free
I have easy thousand hours logged on my set-up now (2233+nv glasses) which should grant me some legitamacy in my post so here goes



Some people will agree with me on this and some will feel differently then I do in regards to how depth and convergence should be implemented in both movies and games. I feel that the perfect movie/game should be made to exists in both “your world” / convergence and bring you into “their world” /depth. You should not need to set depth or convergence (we still will because they never give us enough of either with factory settings). We may not have the horsepower right now but a few years from now and a few new versions/models of components and this should be achievable imo. This is where I think 3d needs to move to. Convergence should be visually as apparent as depth is all the time WITH splashes of “pop out”

Depth has always had the upper hand in 3d because it’s the first thing you will see upon donning your glasses, one second its just flat and the next the wall disappears and your viewing INTO this amazing world. I personally think there should be a difference between the meaning of pop out and convergence. When you say Pop-out it makes me think of a cheap parlour trick, where as convergence would imply something that is always present coming from the screen but not necessarily AT you (Pop-Out) all the time.

I will use a movie to help illustrate an example for you of how I suggest it could be implemented. You are sitting in front of your big screen 3d TV watching a scene where a passenger jet is flying in really stormy night sky. The Plane will at one moment be present inside the screen(depth), now without and setting change the plane will leave the “depth” of the screen and now appear to sway and buck within your living room (convergence) and then, before your eyes, buck and roll back into the depth of the screen. The whole time this is happening bolts of lighting are crackling and flashing, some appear in your living room, perhaps even shooting directly at you causing you to jump in your seat (pop out) while strikes can also be seen happening in the depth of the screen. Storm clouds will be always present in the living room and extend into the screen. Convergence should not be the retarded little sibling that is hidden in the attic and only brought down for special occasions. I say, let that little retard out to run free
#9
Posted 04/30/2010 11:05 PM   
[quote name='vvx' post='1048206' date='Apr 30 2010, 03:40 PM']Do you want to french kiss the enemies in a game or do you want 3d?[/quote]
I don't know. Depends on what[url="http://www.3d-sexgames.com/"] kinda game I'm playing[/url], hehe.
[quote name='vvx' post='1048206' date='Apr 30 2010, 03:40 PM']Do you want to french kiss the enemies in a game or do you want 3d?

I don't know. Depends on what kinda game I'm playing, hehe.
#10
Posted 05/01/2010 01:07 AM   
[quote name='cybereality' post='1048327' date='May 1 2010, 01:07 AM']I don't know. Depends on what[url="http://www.3d-sexgames.com/"] kinda game I'm playing[/url], hehe.[/quote]

What has been seen....cannot be unseen! /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' />
[quote name='cybereality' post='1048327' date='May 1 2010, 01:07 AM']I don't know. Depends on what kinda game I'm playing, hehe.



What has been seen....cannot be unseen! /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' />

#11
Posted 05/01/2010 11:20 AM   
[quote name='cybereality' post='1048327' date='Apr 30 2010, 06:07 PM']I don't know. Depends on what[url="http://www.3d-sexgames.com/"] kinda game I'm playing[/url], hehe.[/quote]

Does that game work in 3d? How's the pop-out effect?
[quote name='cybereality' post='1048327' date='Apr 30 2010, 06:07 PM']I don't know. Depends on what kinda game I'm playing, hehe.



Does that game work in 3d? How's the pop-out effect?

#12
Posted 05/02/2010 09:11 AM   
I was one of the people expecting more pop-out, like they show in the pic's of the product's, i am a little dissapointed, could of been worse instead of $700 could of paid $3,500 on a 3D Tv which is no better, i went and checked the 46" Samsung UN46700c Full HD, LED, and the screen is too shiney refelcts heaps and no better pop-out, they had monsters vs aliens 3D bluray and i ask the salesman to go back to nearly the beginning where to guy is hitting the ball with the paddle, exact same pop-out as Nvidia and my alienware, at least with nvidia you can set depth and convergence, you cant with samsung tv
I was one of the people expecting more pop-out, like they show in the pic's of the product's, i am a little dissapointed, could of been worse instead of $700 could of paid $3,500 on a 3D Tv which is no better, i went and checked the 46" Samsung UN46700c Full HD, LED, and the screen is too shiney refelcts heaps and no better pop-out, they had monsters vs aliens 3D bluray and i ask the salesman to go back to nearly the beginning where to guy is hitting the ball with the paddle, exact same pop-out as Nvidia and my alienware, at least with nvidia you can set depth and convergence, you cant with samsung tv

#13
Posted 05/02/2010 11:14 AM   
[quote name='solutiongaming' post='1048230' date='Apr 30 2010, 06:42 PM'][i]and my own site[/i]
[url="http://www.solutiongaming.co.uk"]SolutionGaming[/url][/quote]

Very nice, thanks a lot. /yes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yes:' />
[quote name='solutiongaming' post='1048230' date='Apr 30 2010, 06:42 PM']and my own site

SolutionGaming



Very nice, thanks a lot. /yes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yes:' />

#14
Posted 05/02/2010 01:35 PM   
As mentioned before, you can adjust your settings in the game for the desired effect.

At the moment, I really enjoy playing Assassins Creed 1 and Just Cause 2 on a 60"-Screen via my lovely Acer h5360.

In the standard settings, there is almost no "popout"-effect, but via ctrl f5/f6 you can adjust the convergence, and now I have "best of both worlds", i.e. the world has some substantial depth, it's like the screen just disappeared and opened a "magic window" into those beautiful landscapes of gaming. :-)

But I set convergence at such a level that the protagonists slightly "pop out" of the screen, this is especially remarkable when they are in the middle of the picture - they seem to stick out of the wall. (At the edges of the picture, the effect is nullified because one of the two stereoscopic pictures needed for the 3d-effect cannot be seen completely anymore, but in the middle of the screen... *boah...*)

Those settings are most enjoyable for me. On the one hand, I get the depth and realism of the game-world, on the other hand, things coming at me like knives, swords or guns/bullets really seem to "pop out" at me. And so does the ground/flowers/etc. that faces me beneath my avatar in the game ... Did you ever stop and smelled the flowers in Just Cause 2? :-) i.e.: Rico is standing in a sea of flowers/grass/etc. and the grass "behind his back", (in my direction), really sticks out of the wall - a brilliant effect, imho.

So, basically it's up to you by choosing the corresponding settings whether you get the "outside" or "inside" the monitor effect - or both. ;-)
As mentioned before, you can adjust your settings in the game for the desired effect.



At the moment, I really enjoy playing Assassins Creed 1 and Just Cause 2 on a 60"-Screen via my lovely Acer h5360.



In the standard settings, there is almost no "popout"-effect, but via ctrl f5/f6 you can adjust the convergence, and now I have "best of both worlds", i.e. the world has some substantial depth, it's like the screen just disappeared and opened a "magic window" into those beautiful landscapes of gaming. :-)



But I set convergence at such a level that the protagonists slightly "pop out" of the screen, this is especially remarkable when they are in the middle of the picture - they seem to stick out of the wall. (At the edges of the picture, the effect is nullified because one of the two stereoscopic pictures needed for the 3d-effect cannot be seen completely anymore, but in the middle of the screen... *boah...*)



Those settings are most enjoyable for me. On the one hand, I get the depth and realism of the game-world, on the other hand, things coming at me like knives, swords or guns/bullets really seem to "pop out" at me. And so does the ground/flowers/etc. that faces me beneath my avatar in the game ... Did you ever stop and smelled the flowers in Just Cause 2? :-) i.e.: Rico is standing in a sea of flowers/grass/etc. and the grass "behind his back", (in my direction), really sticks out of the wall - a brilliant effect, imho.



So, basically it's up to you by choosing the corresponding settings whether you get the "outside" or "inside" the monitor effect - or both. ;-)

Life is like a fully powered 3D-Vision rig where you can wrec havoc in just cause 2.

Okay, maybe not. Want some chocolate? I'm swiss! :-P

#15
Posted 05/02/2010 02:32 PM   
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