If a core issue exists is it all games or just certain ones? I only have stutter in some games like Far Cry 3, but when I run the affinity tests it seems to indicate that in DX11 2d, 3d CM, and 3d Auto that the game uses no more than 5 out of 8 cores. It definitely befits from having more than 3 cores.
The 2d VS 3d test were done on different scenes so ignore the comparative FPS, but look at the CPU scaling. It does not seem to indicate a 3dvision issue with scaling in this game. However, I get heavy stutter while running when in either 3d CM or 3d Auto in DX11, but no stutter in DX9 Helixmod 3d.
Core - 2d
1 - 5 fps
2 - 38 fps
3 - 69 fps
4 - 70 fps
5 - 80 fps
6 - 80 fps
7 - 82 fps
8 - 83 fps
Core - 3d CM
3 - 49 fps 46% GPU usage
4 - 50 fps 45% GPU
5 - 60 fps 55% GPU
8 - 60 fps 55% GPU
Core - 3d Auto
3 - 42fps 58% GPU
4 - 42fps 56% GPU
5 - 50fps 65% GPU
8 - 50fps 65% GPU
If a core issue exists is it all games or just certain ones? I only have stutter in some games like Far Cry 3, but when I run the affinity tests it seems to indicate that in DX11 2d, 3d CM, and 3d Auto that the game uses no more than 5 out of 8 cores. It definitely befits from having more than 3 cores.
The 2d VS 3d test were done on different scenes so ignore the comparative FPS, but look at the CPU scaling. It does not seem to indicate a 3dvision issue with scaling in this game. However, I get heavy stutter while running when in either 3d CM or 3d Auto in DX11, but no stutter in DX9 Helixmod 3d.
3 - 42fps 58% GPU
4 - 42fps 56% GPU
^ is a very strange result!
I remember the 'modern' Far Cry engine being horrendously stuttery and the performance was abysmal. I played FC3 with most options turned to low in 3DVision, and FC4 in CM mode.
For what it's worth, please try forcing VSync off with NV inspector and in-game. The Source engines in Portal 2, HL etc always give me stutter in 3D Vision until I turn VSync off.
Another option might be an overheating CPU?
I remember the 'modern' Far Cry engine being horrendously stuttery and the performance was abysmal. I played FC3 with most options turned to low in 3DVision, and FC4 in CM mode.
For what it's worth, please try forcing VSync off with NV inspector and in-game. The Source engines in Portal 2, HL etc always give me stutter in 3D Vision until I turn VSync off.
Another option might be an overheating CPU?
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
[quote="RAGEdemon"]3 - 42fps 58% GPU
4 - 42fps 56% GPU
^ is a very strange result!
I remember the 'modern' Far Cry engine being horrendously stuttery and the performance was abysmal. I played FC3 with most options turned to low in 3DVision, and FC4 in CM mode.
For what it's worth, please try forcing VSync off with NV inspector and in-game. The Source engines in Portal 2, HL etc always give me stutter in 3D Vision until I turn VSync off.
Another option might be an overheating CPU?[/quote]
I will clarify that the results fluctuate around 1-3 fps and 2-4%.
It is not CPU or system overheating. Did a quick temp test in FC3 and CPU temp maxed out at 38C and GPU maxed out at 56C.
Anyway I will stop rehashing things I did in this other thread I already have opened. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/1/
Sorry to interject into this very interesting and hopefully fruitful discussion between helifax and RAGEDdemon.
I remember the 'modern' Far Cry engine being horrendously stuttery and the performance was abysmal. I played FC3 with most options turned to low in 3DVision, and FC4 in CM mode.
For what it's worth, please try forcing VSync off with NV inspector and in-game. The Source engines in Portal 2, HL etc always give me stutter in 3D Vision until I turn VSync off.
Another option might be an overheating CPU?
I will clarify that the results fluctuate around 1-3 fps and 2-4%.
It is not CPU or system overheating. Did a quick temp test in FC3 and CPU temp maxed out at 38C and GPU maxed out at 56C.
From the examples given here, it doesn't really seem like the problem is strictly a 3-core limit. That's a sort of shorthand maybe, but it seems inconsistent. Not fully clear.
Let's skip GTA5 as an example, because we have no idea what they are doing with their Direct support. Could just be buggy.
For Witcher3 tests, that mostly looks like regular 3D Vision Automatic scaling. Keeping in mind that the system bottleneck can switch around depending on what is happening. When we double the draw calls with Automatic for example, that might very well switch something from GPU to CPU bound.
These problems might be related to the so-called DrawCalls bottleneck. Certainly if a game was finely tuned to get to maximum DrawCalls, and we double them with Automatic, that could drive the bottleneck to CPU feeding the calls pipeline.
Could also be something more subtle, like doubling the textures to transfer, and running into a RAM bottleneck, or at least kicking the primary code out of the L2 cache.
Another good test example that finally became a little clearer to me is Just Cause 3. Based on the examples and tests here, if I run that game with 3D Vision disabled in control panel, I actually get smooth gameplay, no stutters. This is a shock, because I've never before seen it smooth. But... I always run with 3D Vision enabled, even if it's not active.
When I simply enable 3D, but leave it inactive and play in 2D- it stutters like mad, and is unplayable.
That seems like the same problem we are seeing here.
I'll report this JC3 scenario, because it's super easy to duplicate, and the stutter is game breaking.
From the examples given here, it doesn't really seem like the problem is strictly a 3-core limit. That's a sort of shorthand maybe, but it seems inconsistent. Not fully clear.
Let's skip GTA5 as an example, because we have no idea what they are doing with their Direct support. Could just be buggy.
For Witcher3 tests, that mostly looks like regular 3D Vision Automatic scaling. Keeping in mind that the system bottleneck can switch around depending on what is happening. When we double the draw calls with Automatic for example, that might very well switch something from GPU to CPU bound.
These problems might be related to the so-called DrawCalls bottleneck. Certainly if a game was finely tuned to get to maximum DrawCalls, and we double them with Automatic, that could drive the bottleneck to CPU feeding the calls pipeline.
Could also be something more subtle, like doubling the textures to transfer, and running into a RAM bottleneck, or at least kicking the primary code out of the L2 cache.
Another good test example that finally became a little clearer to me is Just Cause 3. Based on the examples and tests here, if I run that game with 3D Vision disabled in control panel, I actually get smooth gameplay, no stutters. This is a shock, because I've never before seen it smooth. But... I always run with 3D Vision enabled, even if it's not active.
When I simply enable 3D, but leave it inactive and play in 2D- it stutters like mad, and is unplayable.
That seems like the same problem we are seeing here.
I'll report this JC3 scenario, because it's super easy to duplicate, and the stutter is game breaking.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I am not sure if I understand correctly. Is there a limitation for the number of cpu kores used with 3d vision? Or not? Or is just that the cpu has more work to do with 3d vision.
I am not sure if I understand correctly. Is there a limitation for the number of cpu kores used with 3d vision? Or not? Or is just that the cpu has more work to do with 3d vision.
ASUS X99-A, i7-5960X, GTX980, 16GB DDR4 2666MHz Corsair, Plextor M.2 SSD 512GB, 3D Vision 2
Just purchased Mirror's Edge: Catalyst and on my system I get a steady 60fps with Medium, High, or Ultra settings, but with 3dVision enabled (CM mode) I get heavy stuttering while running or spinning the camera no matter the in game settings.. Turn of 3d in game and FPS jumps to a 80-120fps but stuttering remains.
Turned off the 3d vision driver and No stuttering at all on Ultra settings. Just thought I would mention it.
So far for me any open or semi open world game stutters with 3d vision driver enabled. FPS games or games that have native 3d support (except Arkham Origins) seem to run fine.
FX-8350
8GB DDR3-1333
Gigabyte GTX 1060 OC 6GB
Soundblaster Z
Windows 10 x64
Drivers 370.72
Just purchased Mirror's Edge: Catalyst and on my system I get a steady 60fps with Medium, High, or Ultra settings, but with 3dVision enabled (CM mode) I get heavy stuttering while running or spinning the camera no matter the in game settings.. Turn of 3d in game and FPS jumps to a 80-120fps but stuttering remains.
Turned off the 3d vision driver and No stuttering at all on Ultra settings. Just thought I would mention it.
So far for me any open or semi open world game stutters with 3d vision driver enabled. FPS games or games that have native 3d support (except Arkham Origins) seem to run fine.
FX-8350
8GB DDR3-1333
Gigabyte GTX 1060 OC 6GB
Soundblaster Z
Windows 10 x64
Drivers 370.72
I know is an old rule guys,
But have you actually tried to limit the Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in NVPANEL?
This was a rule ages ago but somehow I fail to see it lately.
Everyone is complaining about stuttering and such yet I am driving 3D Surround and I don't have this issues...
Another scenario that WILL give you stutters: Best seen in Witcher 3:
Settings:
- No VSYNS
- NO FPS lock
- Make sure GPU runs at 99%
Will stutter like hell right? that is because, the moment you move in the game, new geometry is rendered, so in the background the engine needs to load/unload vertex, texture, etc data. Because the GPU runs at 99% there is NO EXTRA ROOM for this to work in parallel.
So, it will time slice trying to answer both demands. As a result the render pipeline will work slower until the "other" thing is finished. This is like milliseconds. Now, try to repeat this for like 60 times a second and you will get your stutters.
In order to avoid this:
- Make sure that your GPU is never ever running at 99%, but at something like 95% (a little bit room for extra work).
- This is done by setting the MAX framerate to a specific value (30FPS, 45, 50...)
This will allow the engine to process more when in needs without adding extra delays in the rendering pipeline.
A game is line a very fast race! Different things will work at different speeds and pause to wait for other things. If one thing is bound to wait for another thing that is "stressed-out" the whole system will run slow or inconsistent. (Just monitor how Windows works when you have like 10-30% CPU usage and then run a CPU stress test - which puts the CPU at 99% - and try to run Windows. It will stutter like crazy and you will see inconsistent delays in processing). Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
Regarding the bottlenecks, definitely seems to me that a BUS somewhere gets saturated (it could be the PCI-E lane as well). Unfortunately without the actual source code of the game it is hard to profile this. It would show what is taking "more time" to process in 3D Vision.
Like bo3b said, everything is tweaked for 2D experience.
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
But have you actually tried to limit the Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in NVPANEL?
This was a rule ages ago but somehow I fail to see it lately.
Everyone is complaining about stuttering and such yet I am driving 3D Surround and I don't have this issues...
Another scenario that WILL give you stutters: Best seen in Witcher 3:
Settings:
- No VSYNS
- NO FPS lock
- Make sure GPU runs at 99%
Will stutter like hell right? that is because, the moment you move in the game, new geometry is rendered, so in the background the engine needs to load/unload vertex, texture, etc data. Because the GPU runs at 99% there is NO EXTRA ROOM for this to work in parallel.
So, it will time slice trying to answer both demands. As a result the render pipeline will work slower until the "other" thing is finished. This is like milliseconds. Now, try to repeat this for like 60 times a second and you will get your stutters.
In order to avoid this:
- Make sure that your GPU is never ever running at 99%, but at something like 95% (a little bit room for extra work).
- This is done by setting the MAX framerate to a specific value (30FPS, 45, 50...)
This will allow the engine to process more when in needs without adding extra delays in the rendering pipeline.
A game is line a very fast race! Different things will work at different speeds and pause to wait for other things. If one thing is bound to wait for another thing that is "stressed-out" the whole system will run slow or inconsistent. (Just monitor how Windows works when you have like 10-30% CPU usage and then run a CPU stress test - which puts the CPU at 99% - and try to run Windows. It will stutter like crazy and you will see inconsistent delays in processing). Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
Regarding the bottlenecks, definitely seems to me that a BUS somewhere gets saturated (it could be the PCI-E lane as well). Unfortunately without the actual source code of the game it is hard to profile this. It would show what is taking "more time" to process in 3D Vision.
Like bo3b said, everything is tweaked for 2D experience.
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
Sorry I will do your test later.
Mankind divided uses atleast 4 cores in 3d Vision. I don't have a processor with more than 4 cores to test :P.
In Deus Ex Mankind Divided I get like 95-100% on all for cores of my i5 while the Gpu is going from 85-100%.
This is in Prague.
[quote="helifax"]I know is an old rule guys,
But have you actually tried to limit the Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in NVPANEL?
This was a rule ages ago but somehow I fail to see it lately.
Everyone is complaining about stuttering and such yet I am driving 3D Surround and I don't have this issues...
Another scenario that WILL give you stutters: Best seen in Witcher 3:
Settings:
- No VSYNS
- NO FPS lock
- Make sure GPU runs at 99%
Will stutter like hell right? that is because, the moment you move in the game, new geometry is rendered, so in the background the engine needs to load/unload vertex, texture, etc data. Because the GPU runs at 99% there is NO EXTRA ROOM for this to work in parallel.
So, it will time slice trying to answer both demands. As a result the render pipeline will work slower until the "other" thing is finished. This is like milliseconds. Now, try to repeat this for like 60 times a second and you will get your stutters.
In order to avoid this:
- Make sure that your GPU is never ever running at 99%, but at something like 95% (a little bit room for extra work).
- This is done by setting the MAX framerate to a specific value (30FPS, 45, 50...)
This will allow the engine to process more when in needs without adding extra delays in the rendering pipeline.
Regarding the bottlenecks, definitely seems to me that a BUS somewhere gets saturated (it could be the PCI-E lane as well). Unfortunately without the actual source code of the game it is hard to profile this. It would show what is taking "more time" to process in 3D Vision.
Like bo3b said, everything is tweaked for 2D experience.
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
[/quote]
On all the games I get stutter I can guarantee stutter occurs even with:
Vsync on or off
GPU is not above 95% usage - some of the games are well below 60% avg
CPU is not running at 99% either.
@helifax - I know you do not get stuttering, but I did not either on my 660ti in Windows 8.1 so all I can guess is it is either a Win 10/Nvidia issue or worse a Win 10/Pascal card issue.
Here is what I have found is the common denominator in my stutter in 3d Vision.
Game is a DX11 title running in DX11.
Game is running in either CM mode of 3d Vision Automatic
Game is open world or semi-open world
Clear examples are Far Cry 3 and Arkham origins. Run the games in DX11 3d and heavy stutter. Run them in DX9 3d vision and NO stutter.
Games with DX11 and built in 3d support like Hitman Absolution, Theif 2016, TombRaider 2013 and DX:Mankind Divided do not stutter even though in Deus EX my GPU runs at 95-99% constant.
Other linear FPS games like Metro Redux and Metro:LL Redux also do not stutter, and other DX11 titles like Bioshock Infinite also are stutter free.
I don't know what to tell you further except it really seems to be some driver regression affecting Pascal cards in DX11.
But have you actually tried to limit the Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in NVPANEL?
This was a rule ages ago but somehow I fail to see it lately.
Everyone is complaining about stuttering and such yet I am driving 3D Surround and I don't have this issues...
Another scenario that WILL give you stutters: Best seen in Witcher 3:
Settings:
- No VSYNS
- NO FPS lock
- Make sure GPU runs at 99%
Will stutter like hell right? that is because, the moment you move in the game, new geometry is rendered, so in the background the engine needs to load/unload vertex, texture, etc data. Because the GPU runs at 99% there is NO EXTRA ROOM for this to work in parallel.
So, it will time slice trying to answer both demands. As a result the render pipeline will work slower until the "other" thing is finished. This is like milliseconds. Now, try to repeat this for like 60 times a second and you will get your stutters.
In order to avoid this:
- Make sure that your GPU is never ever running at 99%, but at something like 95% (a little bit room for extra work).
- This is done by setting the MAX framerate to a specific value (30FPS, 45, 50...)
This will allow the engine to process more when in needs without adding extra delays in the rendering pipeline.
Regarding the bottlenecks, definitely seems to me that a BUS somewhere gets saturated (it could be the PCI-E lane as well). Unfortunately without the actual source code of the game it is hard to profile this. It would show what is taking "more time" to process in 3D Vision.
Like bo3b said, everything is tweaked for 2D experience.
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
On all the games I get stutter I can guarantee stutter occurs even with:
Vsync on or off
GPU is not above 95% usage - some of the games are well below 60% avg
CPU is not running at 99% either.
@helifax - I know you do not get stuttering, but I did not either on my 660ti in Windows 8.1 so all I can guess is it is either a Win 10/Nvidia issue or worse a Win 10/Pascal card issue.
Here is what I have found is the common denominator in my stutter in 3d Vision.
Game is a DX11 title running in DX11.
Game is running in either CM mode of 3d Vision Automatic
Game is open world or semi-open world
Clear examples are Far Cry 3 and Arkham origins. Run the games in DX11 3d and heavy stutter. Run them in DX9 3d vision and NO stutter.
Games with DX11 and built in 3d support like Hitman Absolution, Theif 2016, TombRaider 2013 and DX:Mankind Divided do not stutter even though in Deus EX my GPU runs at 95-99% constant.
Other linear FPS games like Metro Redux and Metro:LL Redux also do not stutter, and other DX11 titles like Bioshock Infinite also are stutter free.
I don't know what to tell you further except it really seems to be some driver regression affecting Pascal cards in DX11.
[quote="helifax"]
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
[/quote]
Tried your recommended settings and even with all in game settings on low at 1680x1050@120hz with vsync on I get a solid 60fps (~115fps w/vysnyc off) with GPU usage around 45-56%. However, I still get heavy stutter (doesnt matter in 3d is enabled in game or not) when panning the camera or running that does not happen with 3d vision driver disabled.
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
Tried your recommended settings and even with all in game settings on low at 1680x1050@120hz with vsync on I get a solid 60fps (~115fps w/vysnyc off) with GPU usage around 45-56%. However, I still get heavy stutter (doesnt matter in 3d is enabled in game or not) when panning the camera or running that does not happen with 3d vision driver disabled.
[quote="helifax"] Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
[/quote]
I loaded up Mirrors Edge and set Afterburner to also display FB usage VID usage and Bus Usage. When standing still GPU% was 40-50% FB: 12-20% and the others were under 5. When the game stuttered GPU usage when to near Zero along with FB went to below 3%. The other value monitored did not change.
Not really sure what that says.
Keep in mind I am running my test at the very beginning of the game immediately after the first pre-rendered cutscene. This is the section where you just get out of jail and I am running back and forth down the first hallway.
helifax said: Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
I loaded up Mirrors Edge and set Afterburner to also display FB usage VID usage and Bus Usage. When standing still GPU% was 40-50% FB: 12-20% and the others were under 5. When the game stuttered GPU usage when to near Zero along with FB went to below 3%. The other value monitored did not change.
Not really sure what that says.
Keep in mind I am running my test at the very beginning of the game immediately after the first pre-rendered cutscene. This is the section where you just get out of jail and I am running back and forth down the first hallway.
[quote="terintamel"][quote="helifax"] Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
[/quote]
I loaded up Mirrors Edge and set Afterburner to also display FB usage VID usage and Bus Usage. When standing still GPU% was 40-50% FB: 12-20% and the others were under 5. When the game stuttered GPU usage when to near Zero along with FB went to below 3%. The other value monitored did not change.
Not really sure what that says.
Keep in mind I am running my test at the very beginning of the game immediately after the first pre-rendered cutscene. This is the section where you just get out of jail and I am running back and forth down the first hallway.[/quote]
Very very strange behaviour....
Sorry to ask this, but can you list your FULL specs again please?
Does your motherboard have a PCI-E 3.0 bus (16x bus) ?
Something definitely weird is going on there... I know this might sound stupid but ... can you install Windows 7 on a different partition or HDD? If it works there then at least we know is not something general and is happening on Win10. If it still does happen there...sounds more like a hardware incompatibility or any other issues... hard to say...
helifax said: Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
I loaded up Mirrors Edge and set Afterburner to also display FB usage VID usage and Bus Usage. When standing still GPU% was 40-50% FB: 12-20% and the others were under 5. When the game stuttered GPU usage when to near Zero along with FB went to below 3%. The other value monitored did not change.
Not really sure what that says.
Keep in mind I am running my test at the very beginning of the game immediately after the first pre-rendered cutscene. This is the section where you just get out of jail and I am running back and forth down the first hallway.
Very very strange behaviour....
Sorry to ask this, but can you list your FULL specs again please?
Does your motherboard have a PCI-E 3.0 bus (16x bus) ?
Something definitely weird is going on there... I know this might sound stupid but ... can you install Windows 7 on a different partition or HDD? If it works there then at least we know is not something general and is happening on Win10. If it still does happen there...sounds more like a hardware incompatibility or any other issues... hard to say...
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
[quote="helifax"]
Very very strange behaviour....
Sorry to ask this, but can you list your FULL specs again please?
Does your motherboard have a PCI-E 3.0 bus (16x bus) ?
Something definitely weird is going on there... I know this might sound stupid but ... can you install Windows 7 on a different partition or HDD? If it works there then at least we know is not something general and is happening on Win10. If it still does happen there...sounds more like a hardware incompatibility or any other issues... hard to say...
[/quote]
AMD FX-8350 4.0Ghz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
8GB Gskill DDR3 PC3-10700H
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB running in PCI 3.0X16 slot
Creative Soundblaster Z
OS HDD: Intel 128GB SSD SATA6
Game HDD: Seagate 1TB SATA6
Viewsonic 22" VX2268wm - 1680x1050 120hz native resolution.
Windows 10 x64 (non Anniversary)
It may be OS related, but I do not have Windows 7 to install or test with.
I do not think it is purely hardware related as if it was I would expect the issue to happen then in all games in 3d Vision and not just in DX11 open world games that do not have native 3d. DX9 games or DX11 games with native 3d implemented do not have this stutter issue.
My issue is very predictable and repeatable on the games that will stutter and the ones that will not.
As you do not have Win 10 or a Pascal card to test I cannot really rely on your setup to confirm or deny an Nvidia driver issue, nor can you confirm or deny that my issue is not driver related as you and I have some very key differences in setup.
I am trying to get Nvidia to run some tests using a setup similar to mine (Win 10/Pascal) on the games I list, but so far I have not heard back yet.
Sorry to ask this, but can you list your FULL specs again please?
Does your motherboard have a PCI-E 3.0 bus (16x bus) ?
Something definitely weird is going on there... I know this might sound stupid but ... can you install Windows 7 on a different partition or HDD? If it works there then at least we know is not something general and is happening on Win10. If it still does happen there...sounds more like a hardware incompatibility or any other issues... hard to say...
AMD FX-8350 4.0Ghz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
8GB Gskill DDR3 PC3-10700H
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB running in PCI 3.0X16 slot
Creative Soundblaster Z
OS HDD: Intel 128GB SSD SATA6
Game HDD: Seagate 1TB SATA6
Viewsonic 22" VX2268wm - 1680x1050 120hz native resolution.
Windows 10 x64 (non Anniversary)
It may be OS related, but I do not have Windows 7 to install or test with.
I do not think it is purely hardware related as if it was I would expect the issue to happen then in all games in 3d Vision and not just in DX11 open world games that do not have native 3d. DX9 games or DX11 games with native 3d implemented do not have this stutter issue.
My issue is very predictable and repeatable on the games that will stutter and the ones that will not.
As you do not have Win 10 or a Pascal card to test I cannot really rely on your setup to confirm or deny an Nvidia driver issue, nor can you confirm or deny that my issue is not driver related as you and I have some very key differences in setup.
I am trying to get Nvidia to run some tests using a setup similar to mine (Win 10/Pascal) on the games I list, but so far I have not heard back yet.
I have Windows 10 & Windows 7 mate. Not sure what gave you another impression.
This is end-to-end user forum. Nvidia rarely comes here.
Sorry that "you can't rely on my help". If you want to get Nvidia to help then use the proper channels. (Open a proper bug ticket and so on).
Also, you I bet you can download Windows 7 from somewhere to test and see.
Wanting to fix something is one thing (Which you want). Trying to find what works for you is another thing (Which you clearly don't want).
Windows 10 changed a lot from Windows 7, meaning the WDDM. That is the reason I said to test Windows 7. The fact that is only appearing in one DX version means ABSOLUTELY nothing as well. Some of your hardware can still be incompatible or even faulty.
Also I can replicate whatever you have there, except the AMD CPU and the Pascal GPU. I see alot of people are complaining about POOR performance on Pascal + Win 10 in 2D even. Hence I asked you to try Windows 7...
But, I don't need to justify myself to you as you clearly know it all;)
I have Windows 10 & Windows 7 mate. Not sure what gave you another impression.
This is end-to-end user forum. Nvidia rarely comes here.
Sorry that "you can't rely on my help". If you want to get Nvidia to help then use the proper channels. (Open a proper bug ticket and so on).
Also, you I bet you can download Windows 7 from somewhere to test and see.
Wanting to fix something is one thing (Which you want). Trying to find what works for you is another thing (Which you clearly don't want).
Windows 10 changed a lot from Windows 7, meaning the WDDM. That is the reason I said to test Windows 7. The fact that is only appearing in one DX version means ABSOLUTELY nothing as well. Some of your hardware can still be incompatible or even faulty.
Also I can replicate whatever you have there, except the AMD CPU and the Pascal GPU. I see alot of people are complaining about POOR performance on Pascal + Win 10 in 2D even. Hence I asked you to try Windows 7...
But, I don't need to justify myself to you as you clearly know it all;)
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
The 2d VS 3d test were done on different scenes so ignore the comparative FPS, but look at the CPU scaling. It does not seem to indicate a 3dvision issue with scaling in this game. However, I get heavy stutter while running when in either 3d CM or 3d Auto in DX11, but no stutter in DX9 Helixmod 3d.
Core - 2d
1 - 5 fps
2 - 38 fps
3 - 69 fps
4 - 70 fps
5 - 80 fps
6 - 80 fps
7 - 82 fps
8 - 83 fps
Core - 3d CM
3 - 49 fps 46% GPU usage
4 - 50 fps 45% GPU
5 - 60 fps 55% GPU
8 - 60 fps 55% GPU
Core - 3d Auto
3 - 42fps 58% GPU
4 - 42fps 56% GPU
5 - 50fps 65% GPU
8 - 50fps 65% GPU
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
4 - 42fps 56% GPU
^ is a very strange result!
I remember the 'modern' Far Cry engine being horrendously stuttery and the performance was abysmal. I played FC3 with most options turned to low in 3DVision, and FC4 in CM mode.
For what it's worth, please try forcing VSync off with NV inspector and in-game. The Source engines in Portal 2, HL etc always give me stutter in 3D Vision until I turn VSync off.
Another option might be an overheating CPU?
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I will clarify that the results fluctuate around 1-3 fps and 2-4%.
It is not CPU or system overheating. Did a quick temp test in FC3 and CPU temp maxed out at 38C and GPU maxed out at 56C.
Anyway I will stop rehashing things I did in this other thread I already have opened. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/1/
Sorry to interject into this very interesting and hopefully fruitful discussion between helifax and RAGEDdemon.
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
Let's skip GTA5 as an example, because we have no idea what they are doing with their Direct support. Could just be buggy.
For Witcher3 tests, that mostly looks like regular 3D Vision Automatic scaling. Keeping in mind that the system bottleneck can switch around depending on what is happening. When we double the draw calls with Automatic for example, that might very well switch something from GPU to CPU bound.
These problems might be related to the so-called DrawCalls bottleneck. Certainly if a game was finely tuned to get to maximum DrawCalls, and we double them with Automatic, that could drive the bottleneck to CPU feeding the calls pipeline.
Could also be something more subtle, like doubling the textures to transfer, and running into a RAM bottleneck, or at least kicking the primary code out of the L2 cache.
Another good test example that finally became a little clearer to me is Just Cause 3. Based on the examples and tests here, if I run that game with 3D Vision disabled in control panel, I actually get smooth gameplay, no stutters. This is a shock, because I've never before seen it smooth. But... I always run with 3D Vision enabled, even if it's not active.
When I simply enable 3D, but leave it inactive and play in 2D- it stutters like mad, and is unplayable.
That seems like the same problem we are seeing here.
I'll report this JC3 scenario, because it's super easy to duplicate, and the stutter is game breaking.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
ASUS X99-A, i7-5960X, GTX980, 16GB DDR4 2666MHz Corsair, Plextor M.2 SSD 512GB, 3D Vision 2
Turned off the 3d vision driver and No stuttering at all on Ultra settings. Just thought I would mention it.
So far for me any open or semi open world game stutters with 3d vision driver enabled. FPS games or games that have native 3d support (except Arkham Origins) seem to run fine.
FX-8350
8GB DDR3-1333
Gigabyte GTX 1060 OC 6GB
Soundblaster Z
Windows 10 x64
Drivers 370.72
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
But have you actually tried to limit the Pre-Rendered Frames to 1 in NVPANEL?
This was a rule ages ago but somehow I fail to see it lately.
Everyone is complaining about stuttering and such yet I am driving 3D Surround and I don't have this issues...
Another scenario that WILL give you stutters: Best seen in Witcher 3:
Settings:
- No VSYNS
- NO FPS lock
- Make sure GPU runs at 99%
Will stutter like hell right? that is because, the moment you move in the game, new geometry is rendered, so in the background the engine needs to load/unload vertex, texture, etc data. Because the GPU runs at 99% there is NO EXTRA ROOM for this to work in parallel.
So, it will time slice trying to answer both demands. As a result the render pipeline will work slower until the "other" thing is finished. This is like milliseconds. Now, try to repeat this for like 60 times a second and you will get your stutters.
In order to avoid this:
- Make sure that your GPU is never ever running at 99%, but at something like 95% (a little bit room for extra work).
- This is done by setting the MAX framerate to a specific value (30FPS, 45, 50...)
This will allow the engine to process more when in needs without adding extra delays in the rendering pipeline.
A game is line a very fast race! Different things will work at different speeds and pause to wait for other things. If one thing is bound to wait for another thing that is "stressed-out" the whole system will run slow or inconsistent. (Just monitor how Windows works when you have like 10-30% CPU usage and then run a CPU stress test - which puts the CPU at 99% - and try to run Windows. It will stutter like crazy and you will see inconsistent delays in processing). Any stutter basically means one thing: Something, somewhere is stressed out... Now we can only monitor GPU, CPU, (V)RAM usage and that is about it.
MSI Afterburner actually has a couple of other monitors as well, that people ignore...
- GPU FB usage
- GPU VID usage
- GPU BUS usage
- GPU voltage limit
- GPU1 SLI sync limit
etc...
I bet if people pay attention to these, you will probably see on of these will be stressed out (if is a form of GPU bottleneck). Unfortunately for CPU we don't have a lot of monitoring...so hard to say what is going inside the chip :(
Regarding the bottlenecks, definitely seems to me that a BUS somewhere gets saturated (it could be the PCI-E lane as well). Unfortunately without the actual source code of the game it is hard to profile this. It would show what is taking "more time" to process in 3D Vision.
Like bo3b said, everything is tweaked for 2D experience.
But back @terintamel: I get zero stutters in CM mode in 3D Surround in ME:Catalyst. Try: - Max GPU performance and pre-rendered frames = 1 (in NVPanel).
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
Mankind divided uses atleast 4 cores in 3d Vision. I don't have a processor with more than 4 cores to test :P.
In Deus Ex Mankind Divided I get like 95-100% on all for cores of my i5 while the Gpu is going from 85-100%.
This is in Prague.
I'm ishiki, forum screwed up my name.
7700k @4.7 GHZ, 16GBDDR4@3466MHZ, 2080 Ti
On all the games I get stutter I can guarantee stutter occurs even with:
Vsync on or off
GPU is not above 95% usage - some of the games are well below 60% avg
CPU is not running at 99% either.
@helifax - I know you do not get stuttering, but I did not either on my 660ti in Windows 8.1 so all I can guess is it is either a Win 10/Nvidia issue or worse a Win 10/Pascal card issue.
Here is what I have found is the common denominator in my stutter in 3d Vision.
Game is a DX11 title running in DX11.
Game is running in either CM mode of 3d Vision Automatic
Game is open world or semi-open world
Clear examples are Far Cry 3 and Arkham origins. Run the games in DX11 3d and heavy stutter. Run them in DX9 3d vision and NO stutter.
Games with DX11 and built in 3d support like Hitman Absolution, Theif 2016, TombRaider 2013 and DX:Mankind Divided do not stutter even though in Deus EX my GPU runs at 95-99% constant.
Other linear FPS games like Metro Redux and Metro:LL Redux also do not stutter, and other DX11 titles like Bioshock Infinite also are stutter free.
I don't know what to tell you further except it really seems to be some driver regression affecting Pascal cards in DX11.
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
Tried your recommended settings and even with all in game settings on low at 1680x1050@120hz with vsync on I get a solid 60fps (~115fps w/vysnyc off) with GPU usage around 45-56%. However, I still get heavy stutter (doesnt matter in 3d is enabled in game or not) when panning the camera or running that does not happen with 3d vision driver disabled.
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
I loaded up Mirrors Edge and set Afterburner to also display FB usage VID usage and Bus Usage. When standing still GPU% was 40-50% FB: 12-20% and the others were under 5. When the game stuttered GPU usage when to near Zero along with FB went to below 3%. The other value monitored did not change.
Not really sure what that says.
Keep in mind I am running my test at the very beginning of the game immediately after the first pre-rendered cutscene. This is the section where you just get out of jail and I am running back and forth down the first hallway.
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
Very very strange behaviour....
Sorry to ask this, but can you list your FULL specs again please?
Does your motherboard have a PCI-E 3.0 bus (16x bus) ?
Something definitely weird is going on there... I know this might sound stupid but ... can you install Windows 7 on a different partition or HDD? If it works there then at least we know is not something general and is happening on Win10. If it still does happen there...sounds more like a hardware incompatibility or any other issues... hard to say...
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
AMD FX-8350 4.0Ghz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
8GB Gskill DDR3 PC3-10700H
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB running in PCI 3.0X16 slot
Creative Soundblaster Z
OS HDD: Intel 128GB SSD SATA6
Game HDD: Seagate 1TB SATA6
Viewsonic 22" VX2268wm - 1680x1050 120hz native resolution.
Windows 10 x64 (non Anniversary)
It may be OS related, but I do not have Windows 7 to install or test with.
I do not think it is purely hardware related as if it was I would expect the issue to happen then in all games in 3d Vision and not just in DX11 open world games that do not have native 3d. DX9 games or DX11 games with native 3d implemented do not have this stutter issue.
My issue is very predictable and repeatable on the games that will stutter and the ones that will not.
As you do not have Win 10 or a Pascal card to test I cannot really rely on your setup to confirm or deny an Nvidia driver issue, nor can you confirm or deny that my issue is not driver related as you and I have some very key differences in setup.
I am trying to get Nvidia to run some tests using a setup similar to mine (Win 10/Pascal) on the games I list, but so far I have not heard back yet.
AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709
This is end-to-end user forum. Nvidia rarely comes here.
Sorry that "you can't rely on my help". If you want to get Nvidia to help then use the proper channels. (Open a proper bug ticket and so on).
Also, you I bet you can download Windows 7 from somewhere to test and see.
Wanting to fix something is one thing (Which you want). Trying to find what works for you is another thing (Which you clearly don't want).
Windows 10 changed a lot from Windows 7, meaning the WDDM. That is the reason I said to test Windows 7. The fact that is only appearing in one DX version means ABSOLUTELY nothing as well. Some of your hardware can still be incompatible or even faulty.
Also I can replicate whatever you have there, except the AMD CPU and the Pascal GPU. I see alot of people are complaining about POOR performance on Pascal + Win 10 in 2D even. Hence I asked you to try Windows 7...
But, I don't need to justify myself to you as you clearly know it all;)
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)