I see mention of "fake 3D" ocasionally on here. What is it, and what are the differences
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[quote="andysonofbob"][quote="bo3b"]I also looked at Deus Ex, as it was reportedly low depth as well.[/quote]Mate, the 3D is 'true' 3D alright but the reason DE's 3D is rubbish is because the 3D is rubbish! Your telling me you haven't noticed the skybox drawn too near, dodgy lazer sights which work now and again, multiple glitchy lighting effects, subtle HDR-like effects that are rendered in 2D etc. Oh and the convergence is too low because adding more causing the gun to split. [/quote]Well, all I can say is that I didn't see these problems. This is part of my confusion, because Deus Ex genuinely looked terrific in my viewing setup. Take a look at my 3D Vision Live gallery of shots (depth will be too low for monitor peeps): [url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/album/4f1fea8c378501db48000055/[/url] No broken laser sight, sky at right depth, all lights showing in both left and right. There are a couple of subtle anomalies like coronas that are stronger in one eye, but I really have to look for them. Now the big problem here is that the depth is locked at a too-low level. For projector this accidentally or on purpose works just fine. I get max depth of IPD on the wall. For monitor, this is 5x too low. As far as the graphic 3D glitches, I can only think that they fixed all the bugs by the time I played it, about six months after release (love Deus Ex, but I'm a cheapskate and get them on sale.)
andysonofbob said:
bo3b said:I also looked at Deus Ex, as it was reportedly low depth as well.
Mate, the 3D is 'true' 3D alright but the reason DE's 3D is rubbish is because the 3D is rubbish! Your telling me you haven't noticed the skybox drawn too near, dodgy lazer sights which work now and again, multiple glitchy lighting effects, subtle HDR-like effects that are rendered in 2D etc. Oh and the convergence is too low because adding more causing the gun to split.
Well, all I can say is that I didn't see these problems. This is part of my confusion, because Deus Ex genuinely looked terrific in my viewing setup.

Take a look at my 3D Vision Live gallery of shots (depth will be too low for monitor peeps):

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/album/4f1fea8c378501db48000055/

No broken laser sight, sky at right depth, all lights showing in both left and right. There are a couple of subtle anomalies like coronas that are stronger in one eye, but I really have to look for them.

Now the big problem here is that the depth is locked at a too-low level. For projector this accidentally or on purpose works just fine. I get max depth of IPD on the wall. For monitor, this is 5x too low.

As far as the graphic 3D glitches, I can only think that they fixed all the bugs by the time I played it, about six months after release (love Deus Ex, but I'm a cheapskate and get them on sale.)

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#61
Posted 09/01/2013 10:57 PM   
I dunno... Too many scenes like this: [url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/4f97905c3785017b76000001/[/url] TBH I can live with the light glitches - no worries; it's 2D unit icons I struggle with. The laser sights were all over the place for me. As for the sky... [url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/4f1febfe3785014961000054/[/url] The sky is closer than the buildings. Also the the 'mist' like parts of the bloom effect are in 2D. It is really subtle but it is there. Playing for too long and I feel like I am getting a migrain! I guess I must be quite sensitive. The convergence is also too flat. [quote="bo3b"]Now the big problem here is that the depth is locked at a too-low level. For projector this accidentally or on purpose works just fine. I get max depth of IPD on the wall. For monitor, this is 5x too low.[/quote] I know, I loathe dev supported 3D because of this. I think Dev supported 3D is cool for large screen but not smaller. I was under the impression nvidia's drivers compensate for monitor sizes, unlike these dev supported games. In fact, every 3D vision driver user can use pahncrd's depth hack to completely control max depth. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/467160/?comment=3320180[/url] I also bought DE:HR when it was cheap and patched. When I played it though, there were plenty of glitches. Too many for me anyway. I only got about 4 hours in before giving up. Really gutting as I loved the gameplay and story. 3D quality is clearly very subjective. I am beginning to realise it is really important to be aware of the the screen size of 3D users when considering their opinions of quality. For instance I am under the impression locked convergence can really spoil the experience for you large screen users but it is less of a pain for small screens. That said, the fact many dev supported games seem to look much better on large screens compared to small is frustrating. Frustrating because I just don't see myself being about to get a pj anytime soon. A 27" monitor will be the best I would be able to achieve. But hey, that's the way the world works right?
I dunno...

Too many scenes like this:
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/4f97905c3785017b76000001/
TBH I can live with the light glitches - no worries; it's 2D unit icons I struggle with. The laser sights were all over the place for me.

As for the sky...
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/4f1febfe3785014961000054/
The sky is closer than the buildings. Also the the 'mist' like parts of the bloom effect are in 2D. It is really subtle but it is there. Playing for too long and I feel like I am getting a migrain! I guess I must be quite sensitive. The convergence is also too flat.


bo3b said:Now the big problem here is that the depth is locked at a too-low level. For projector this accidentally or on purpose works just fine. I get max depth of IPD on the wall. For monitor, this is 5x too low.

I know, I loathe dev supported 3D because of this. I think Dev supported 3D is cool for large screen but not smaller. I was under the impression nvidia's drivers compensate for monitor sizes, unlike these dev supported games. In fact, every 3D vision driver user can use pahncrd's depth hack to completely control max depth.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/467160/?comment=3320180

I also bought DE:HR when it was cheap and patched. When I played it though, there were plenty of glitches. Too many for me anyway. I only got about 4 hours in before giving up. Really gutting as I loved the gameplay and story.

3D quality is clearly very subjective. I am beginning to realise it is really important to be aware of the the screen size of 3D users when considering their opinions of quality. For instance I am under the impression locked convergence can really spoil the experience for you large screen users but it is less of a pain for small screens.

That said, the fact many dev supported games seem to look much better on large screens compared to small is frustrating. Frustrating because I just don't see myself being about to get a pj anytime soon. A 27" monitor will be the best I would be able to achieve. But hey, that's the way the world works right?

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
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Handy Driver Discussion
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#62
Posted 09/02/2013 07:49 AM   
[quote="andysonofbob"]As for the sky... [url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/4f1febfe3785014961000054/[/url] The sky is closer than the buildings. Also the the 'mist' like parts of the bloom effect are in 2D. It is really subtle but it is there. Playing for too long and I feel like I am getting a migrain! I guess I must be quite sensitive. The convergence is also too flat.[/quote]Wow! Until you just pointed it out, I hadn't even noticed that the sky is at the wrong depth in Detroit. This surprised me so much that I ran the game again to see, and sure enough that same spot with Malik has the funky corona and sky at wrong depth. Here is a later one I just made, where the sky is at the correct depth. Bizarre that they get it right sometimes, but not always. This one has some lights that are at the wrong depth, but also bizarrely not at screen depth, the usual problem. [url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/522469520f35304c6f000022/[/url] I think it's safe to say my standards are on the low side, I'll play damn near anything if it's got 3D. :-> Deus Ex is clearly a poor experience on monitor. Bad depth, AND glitches. On projector the depth is acceptable, and the glitches are easy enough to overlook. I'm not too proud to admit I've played a [i]lot [/i]worse games in the pre-Helix days. This conversation has been super informative, thanks for taking a look at those shots. I knew that sharing 3D photos was hard- I hadn't realized that I can't really share 3D photos even with other 3D users. A couple of Just Cause 2 shots that might be what you were asking for earlier, with a long vista into the distance: [url]http://bo3b.net/Crysis2/JustCause210_85.jps[/url] [url]http://bo3b.net/Crysis2/JustCause211_85.jps[/url]
andysonofbob said:As for the sky...
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/4f1febfe3785014961000054/
The sky is closer than the buildings. Also the the 'mist' like parts of the bloom effect are in 2D. It is really subtle but it is there. Playing for too long and I feel like I am getting a migrain! I guess I must be quite sensitive. The convergence is also too flat.
Wow! Until you just pointed it out, I hadn't even noticed that the sky is at the wrong depth in Detroit. This surprised me so much that I ran the game again to see, and sure enough that same spot with Malik has the funky corona and sky at wrong depth.

Here is a later one I just made, where the sky is at the correct depth. Bizarre that they get it right sometimes, but not always. This one has some lights that are at the wrong depth, but also bizarrely not at screen depth, the usual problem.

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/image/522469520f35304c6f000022/


I think it's safe to say my standards are on the low side, I'll play damn near anything if it's got 3D. :->

Deus Ex is clearly a poor experience on monitor. Bad depth, AND glitches. On projector the depth is acceptable, and the glitches are easy enough to overlook. I'm not too proud to admit I've played a lot worse games in the pre-Helix days.

This conversation has been super informative, thanks for taking a look at those shots. I knew that sharing 3D photos was hard- I hadn't realized that I can't really share 3D photos even with other 3D users.


A couple of Just Cause 2 shots that might be what you were asking for earlier, with a long vista into the distance:

http://bo3b.net/Crysis2/JustCause210_85.jps
http://bo3b.net/Crysis2/JustCause211_85.jps

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#63
Posted 09/02/2013 10:51 AM   
JustCause210 is a great shot. I love the way Rico is looking at something out of shot, yet we have that cool distant vista in view. :) [url]http://speedy.sh/vVRVy/JustCause2.zip[/url] No where near as arty as yours but hopefully enough to tempt you to try the Superman mod. I think it is a better game for it! BTW, +1 RE informative - cheers mate. I guess sharing photo's requires two takes per scene!
JustCause210 is a great shot. I love the way Rico is looking at something out of shot, yet we have that cool distant vista in view. :)

http://speedy.sh/vVRVy/JustCause2.zip No where near as arty as yours but hopefully enough to tempt you to try the Superman mod. I think it is a better game for it!

BTW, +1 RE informative - cheers mate. I guess sharing photo's requires two takes per scene!

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#64
Posted 09/02/2013 02:53 PM   
I like those shots of flying Rico, I'll definitely give it a try later on. Games tend to be too easy in general, so I like to avoid stuff that makes it easier to begin with. I even got some Level6 gun as a package or something that I'm avoiding using. So far, it's been a blast. This game is a good contrast to Deus Ex- totally 100% beautiful in all it's scenery, and no 3D glitches. (for those shots you might want to bump that JPG compression from the default 50. Tends to blur things a bit.)
I like those shots of flying Rico, I'll definitely give it a try later on. Games tend to be too easy in general, so I like to avoid stuff that makes it easier to begin with. I even got some Level6 gun as a package or something that I'm avoiding using. So far, it's been a blast. This game is a good contrast to Deus Ex- totally 100% beautiful in all it's scenery, and no 3D glitches.

(for those shots you might want to bump that JPG compression from the default 50. Tends to blur things a bit.)

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#65
Posted 09/03/2013 11:42 AM   
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