Is 3DTV Play PC Gaming on a Mitsubishi L75-A94 for real?
I'd like to know the non-marketing reality. How does it compare to gaming on a PC with a 3D Vision Ready LCD monitor running Dual GTX590s in SLi?

That question is how I started this. After I did the researching to make sure I had my details correct I ended up with this:
If I pay an extra $200.00 I can take the enjoyable stereo 3D video signal going to my 27inch LCD monitor at 1080p 60fps and send it to a 75inch DLP TV with something that looks like standard definition in quality running 30fps (720i).

What am I misunderstanding?


Marketing says switching to an HDTV is no problem:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
-"NVIDIA® 3DTV Play™ supports the same games as 3D Vision"
-Supported 3D TVs: Mitsubishi L75-A94

Reality says there are things to consider:
It seems like it comes down to the HDMI 1.4a inputs. The TV will accept "HDMI Digital PC" input of 1080p at 60Hz. The L75-A94's 3D TV is supported in Side-by-Side and Checkerboard formats for the 1080p at 60Hz input. The 3DTV Play software does the conversion to the Side-by-Side and/or Checkerboard format. The 3DTV Play software is limited to 720p at 60Hz (from http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO-98478.html).

How does the marketing meet reality when it comes to these points?:
-1280x720 at 60Hz is 60fps or 30fps each eye in Stereo 3D (vsync critical for shutter glasses). Yet 30fps is unplayable for PC gaming. What have I not understood correctly? The TV can display 120Hz. Each of the frames coming from the PC have both left and right eye images (frame packed as Side-by-Side or Checkerboard) so does the TV split the input frames then display 120 fps (60 fps per eye)?
-With each frame packed as Side-by-Side or Checkerboard that means half of each frame is the image for each eye. Each eye does not get 720p. Image quality seems like it would be something like 720i (interlaces standard definition). I would think with a screen about 3 feet tall (75inch diagonal) the interlacing would be very noticeable.
-With the added processing of the 3DTV Play software doing the conversion to the Side-by-Side and/or Checkerboard format what is the frame rate loss? Is 3DTV Play software done by by the GPU or CPU? That might seem silly to ask but it is exactly that kind of silliness Marketing doesn't mention.


Actually getting the 3DTV Play software is not clear either.
"The 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software on your PC."

My monitor has a built-in emitter. When my display becomes the L75-A94 there will no longer be a 3D Vision Ready device for the drivers to detect. The L75-A94 is not capable of using my 3D Vision 2 glasses. For the L75-A94 (and any supported HDTV) the glasses are TV (display) dependent. NVidia emitter+glasses are not used. It would be pointless to buy a 3D Vision emitter.

However the way the website and manual are worded it seems I would have to buy the software* ($40) and a 3D Vision kit ($150.00) just to get the emitter so the software could activate. $200 to take the 3D video output going to my monitor and send it to my TV.

*Limited to 5 activations so rebuild your PC (change motherboards and/or OS) more than 5 times and you have to buy the software again.
I'd like to know the non-marketing reality. How does it compare to gaming on a PC with a 3D Vision Ready LCD monitor running Dual GTX590s in SLi?



That question is how I started this. After I did the researching to make sure I had my details correct I ended up with this:

If I pay an extra $200.00 I can take the enjoyable stereo 3D video signal going to my 27inch LCD monitor at 1080p 60fps and send it to a 75inch DLP TV with something that looks like standard definition in quality running 30fps (720i).



What am I misunderstanding?





Marketing says switching to an HDTV is no problem:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html

-"NVIDIA® 3DTV Play™ supports the same games as 3D Vision"

-Supported 3D TVs: Mitsubishi L75-A94



Reality says there are things to consider:

It seems like it comes down to the HDMI 1.4a inputs. The TV will accept "HDMI Digital PC" input of 1080p at 60Hz. The L75-A94's 3D TV is supported in Side-by-Side and Checkerboard formats for the 1080p at 60Hz input. The 3DTV Play software does the conversion to the Side-by-Side and/or Checkerboard format. The 3DTV Play software is limited to 720p at 60Hz (from http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO-98478.html).



How does the marketing meet reality when it comes to these points?:

-1280x720 at 60Hz is 60fps or 30fps each eye in Stereo 3D (vsync critical for shutter glasses). Yet 30fps is unplayable for PC gaming. What have I not understood correctly? The TV can display 120Hz. Each of the frames coming from the PC have both left and right eye images (frame packed as Side-by-Side or Checkerboard) so does the TV split the input frames then display 120 fps (60 fps per eye)?

-With each frame packed as Side-by-Side or Checkerboard that means half of each frame is the image for each eye. Each eye does not get 720p. Image quality seems like it would be something like 720i (interlaces standard definition). I would think with a screen about 3 feet tall (75inch diagonal) the interlacing would be very noticeable.

-With the added processing of the 3DTV Play software doing the conversion to the Side-by-Side and/or Checkerboard format what is the frame rate loss? Is 3DTV Play software done by by the GPU or CPU? That might seem silly to ask but it is exactly that kind of silliness Marketing doesn't mention.





Actually getting the 3DTV Play software is not clear either.

"The 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software on your PC."



My monitor has a built-in emitter. When my display becomes the L75-A94 there will no longer be a 3D Vision Ready device for the drivers to detect. The L75-A94 is not capable of using my 3D Vision 2 glasses. For the L75-A94 (and any supported HDTV) the glasses are TV (display) dependent. NVidia emitter+glasses are not used. It would be pointless to buy a 3D Vision emitter.



However the way the website and manual are worded it seems I would have to buy the software* ($40) and a 3D Vision kit ($150.00) just to get the emitter so the software could activate. $200 to take the 3D video output going to my monitor and send it to my TV.



*Limited to 5 activations so rebuild your PC (change motherboards and/or OS) more than 5 times and you have to buy the software again.

#1
Posted 04/11/2012 12:15 AM   
The answer was no it didn't really work and was just marketing hype or "Works on paper". All the specs indicate it worked but in practice you did not get something you could play games in 3D with However, a new Nvidia driver feature in the BETA 3.10.33 release changes that: 1080p60MHz with 3D via Checkerboard. What you need: - A PC with Nvidia GPU(s) that can do 2D at 1080p at 100-120 fps at the minimum eye-candy enabled for your taste. I prefer stereoscopic 3D (S3D) over detailed shadows and ambient occlusion for example. - A 3D TV that can display 1080p @ 60Mhz via the Checkerboard format. Note: the HDMI 1.4a standard only supports 720p@60MHz or 1080p@24MHz for 3DHD. HDMI 1.4a was never meant for 3D gaming. That is why the low video data bandwidth that can't support high resolutions at high frame rates. Checkerboard does not look as good as 1080p 2D HD. It looks better than 720p 3D HD to me because the aliasing (jaggies) are reduced. Look up details for the Checkerboard format on the Internet if you want more info as I am not an expert. - 3D glasses that support your TV's way of doing 3D. You do not need and will never likely use NVidia glasses with your TV. I don't know of any TV's that emit the Nvidia IR shutter sync signal. - Nvidia TV3D Play. The install guides and web page were never updated. You no longer need to have the 3D Vision emitter (black pyramid device) to activate TV3D Play. You do need a totally unprotected Internet connection (no firewall or proxy of any kind) so it can count your activations (Limited to 5). Get it and use the 14 day free trial to make sure it works for you before paying for an activation key code. - Notice the above two points mean a 3D Vision kit is likely useless when 3D TV and HDMI are involved. If your TV can somehow use the 3D Vision pyramid IR emitter then maybe. USB, even if your TV has it, won't make the needed frame rate sync possible. I don't think 3DTV Play sends any frame sync signals to the 3D Vision pyramid IR emitter. - The BETA 3.10.33 driver release. Hopefully all versions released after that. Some specifics when used with the L75-a94: - DLP means no ghosting! The ability to raise the brightness without added ghosting makes up for what Checkerboard does to fine lines like text. It is sort of an interleave. Remember how text looked on CRTs that only had interleaved modes back in the day? Kind of like that. A screenshot would be pointless without a 75" screen to view it on. Get the trial version of 3DTV Play and see it in the way that matters most, on your TV. No 3D image ghosting is a HUGE improvement. - The Mitsubishi LaserVue L75-a94 has some significant overscan. 1920x1080 is really 1824x1026 visible for my TV due to the overscan. Before the Checkerboard 3D mode only the desktop could be resized. When 3DTV Play output the 3D HD video is was only at the standard 1080p or 720p HDMI resolutions. Any game with HUD elements on the screen edge was unplayable due to the TVs overscan. 5% of missing screen from the edges doesn't sound like much but that is often most of the HUD. The Checkerboard output mode allows the Nvidia drivers to compensate for the TV's overscan. Now I can choose the resized output (1824x1026) in the game's settings. The TV is still in 1080p mode and overscanning but the picture is the centered 1824x1026 image so nothing is lost (projected beyond the physical TV screen's edges) but empty pixels.
The answer was no it didn't really work and was just marketing hype or "Works on paper". All the specs indicate it worked but in practice you did not get something you could play games in 3D with



However, a new Nvidia driver feature in the BETA 3.10.33 release changes that:

1080p60MHz with 3D via Checkerboard.




What you need:

- A PC with Nvidia GPU(s) that can do 2D at 1080p at 100-120 fps at the minimum eye-candy enabled for your taste. I prefer stereoscopic 3D (S3D) over detailed shadows and ambient occlusion for example.

- A 3D TV that can display 1080p @ 60Mhz via the Checkerboard format. Note: the HDMI 1.4a standard only supports 720p@60MHz or 1080p@24MHz for 3DHD. HDMI 1.4a was never meant for 3D gaming. That is why the low video data bandwidth that can't support high resolutions at high frame rates. Checkerboard does not look as good as 1080p 2D HD. It looks better than 720p 3D HD to me because the aliasing (jaggies) are reduced. Look up details for the Checkerboard format on the Internet if you want more info as I am not an expert.

- 3D glasses that support your TV's way of doing 3D. You do not need and will never likely use NVidia glasses with your TV. I don't know of any TV's that emit the Nvidia IR shutter sync signal.

- Nvidia TV3D Play. The install guides and web page were never updated. You no longer need to have the 3D Vision emitter (black pyramid device) to activate TV3D Play. You do need a totally unprotected Internet connection (no firewall or proxy of any kind) so it can count your activations (Limited to 5). Get it and use the 14 day free trial to make sure it works for you before paying for an activation key code.

- Notice the above two points mean a 3D Vision kit is likely useless when 3D TV and HDMI are involved. If your TV can somehow use the 3D Vision pyramid IR emitter then maybe. USB, even if your TV has it, won't make the needed frame rate sync possible. I don't think 3DTV Play sends any frame sync signals to the 3D Vision pyramid IR emitter.

- The BETA 3.10.33 driver release. Hopefully all versions released after that.





Some specifics when used with the L75-a94:

- DLP means no ghosting! The ability to raise the brightness without added ghosting makes up for what Checkerboard does to fine lines like text.
It is sort of an interleave. Remember how text looked on CRTs that only had interleaved modes back in the day? Kind of like that. A screenshot would be pointless without a 75" screen to view it on. Get the trial version of 3DTV Play and see it in the way that matters most, on your TV. No 3D image ghosting is a HUGE improvement.

- The Mitsubishi LaserVue L75-a94 has some significant overscan. 1920x1080 is really 1824x1026 visible for my TV due to the overscan. Before the Checkerboard 3D mode only the desktop could be resized. When 3DTV Play output the 3D HD video is was only at the standard 1080p or 720p HDMI resolutions. Any game with HUD elements on the screen edge was unplayable due to the TVs overscan. 5% of missing screen from the edges doesn't sound like much but that is often most of the HUD. The Checkerboard output mode allows the Nvidia drivers to compensate for the TV's overscan. Now I can choose the resized output (1824x1026) in the game's settings. The TV is still in 1080p mode and overscanning but the picture is the centered 1824x1026 image so nothing is lost (projected beyond the physical TV screen's edges) but empty pixels.

#2
Posted 11/02/2012 01:55 AM   
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