4K Projectors
  1 / 3    
Just wondering if anyone has tried a 4k projector for movies or games? I know that Sony are the only company to have true 4k projectors (for nearly half a decade now) whilst other companies have 'wobulation' to get 4k (or close to 4k) I'm sure the wobulation ones must have input lag for gaming or make text hard to read in windows etc. Optoma are supposed to be re4leasing the UHD60 true 4k projector for $2799 in the second quarter of this year. Not sure about the Texas instruemnts single DLP chipset will work (with the mirror doubling) but I don't think this model has 3D which is obviously a deal breaker. TBH though, seeing how the cheapest Sony 4K projector is over £5000 in the UK and Nvidias shit 720p resolution limit, it would be cheaper to buy the optoma UHD60 when it comes out and a cheapo 720p 3D vision projector for gaming. Hardly ideal though! Will the EDID hacks work with the sony 4k projectors? Anyone tried it? The sony 4k projectors use active 3D though, not passive. I take it this method won't work then? I really wish Nvidia would pull their finger out of their arse regarding 3D vision and 3DTV Play!
Just wondering if anyone has tried a 4k projector for movies or games?
I know that Sony are the only company to have true 4k projectors (for nearly half a decade now) whilst other companies have 'wobulation' to get 4k (or close to 4k)

I'm sure the wobulation ones must have input lag for gaming or make text hard to read in windows etc.

Optoma are supposed to be re4leasing the UHD60 true 4k projector for $2799 in the second quarter of this year. Not sure about the Texas instruemnts single DLP chipset will work (with the mirror doubling) but I don't think this model has 3D which is obviously a deal breaker.

TBH though, seeing how the cheapest Sony 4K projector is over £5000 in the UK and Nvidias shit 720p resolution limit, it would be cheaper to buy the optoma UHD60 when it comes out and a cheapo 720p 3D vision projector for gaming.

Hardly ideal though!

Will the EDID hacks work with the sony 4k projectors? Anyone tried it? The sony 4k projectors use active 3D though, not passive. I take it this method won't work then?

I really wish Nvidia would pull their finger out of their arse regarding 3D vision and 3DTV Play!

#1
Posted 01/21/2017 11:55 AM   
seen sony on some fair show...was not impressed. i think it´s a little "waste" for projector front. well ok i get 4k panel if i get it at same price as fullhd. i would rather put the same money into a 3 chip dlp with fullhd panel. With quality fullhd projector there is no need to 4k. And that´s the truth. it´s just marketing blabber. I wonder why people imagine you can do passive 3d with one projector ? For image to be passive it need 2 constant image stream from a projector. how is it expected to happen with one lightsource ? Ment no offence by the way....just realized by the way you can´t get a 3 chip fullhd dlp with 2 5k ...
seen sony on some fair show...was not impressed. i think it´s a little "waste" for projector front.
well ok i get 4k panel if i get it at same price as fullhd. i would rather put the same money into a
3 chip dlp with fullhd panel. With quality fullhd projector there is no need to 4k. And that´s the truth.
it´s just marketing blabber.

I wonder why people imagine you can do passive 3d with one projector ?
For image to be passive it need 2 constant image stream from a projector.
how is it expected to happen with one lightsource ?

Ment no offence by the way....just realized by the way you can´t get a 3 chip fullhd dlp with 2 5k ...

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#2
Posted 01/21/2017 12:36 PM   
[quote="Metaloholic"]I wonder why people imagine you can do passive 3d with one projector ? For image to be passive it need 2 constant image stream from a projector. how is it expected to happen with one lightsource ?[/quote] You can do Passive using a single projector, the only difference is that it "must be 3D capable, unlike Dual Passive where you can use 2D projectors. It's been possible for years, but the hardware is expensive. You need to put an active LCD panel in front of the lens to alter the light waves for each eye that's compatible with Passive polarized glasses. The benefit with Dual Passive projection, was to get around the bandwidth limitations when using HDMI for 1080P@60 per eye. http://www.depthq.com/modulator.html [img]http://www.depthq.com/pic/modulator_noflash.gif[/img]
Metaloholic said:I wonder why people imagine you can do passive 3d with one projector ?
For image to be passive it need 2 constant image stream from a projector.
how is it expected to happen with one lightsource ?


You can do Passive using a single projector, the only difference is that it "must be 3D capable, unlike Dual Passive where you can use 2D projectors. It's been possible for years, but the hardware is expensive.

You need to put an active LCD panel in front of the lens to alter the light waves for each eye that's compatible with Passive polarized glasses.

The benefit with Dual Passive projection, was to get around the bandwidth limitations when using HDMI for 1080P@60 per eye.

http://www.depthq.com/modulator.html

Image

#3
Posted 01/21/2017 01:35 PM   
[quote="Metaloholic"]seen sony on some fair show...was not impressed. i think it´s a little "waste" for projector front. well ok i get 4k panel if i get it at same price as fullhd. i would rather put the same money into a 3 chip dlp with fullhd panel. With quality fullhd projector there is no need to 4k. And that´s the truth. it´s just marketing blabber.[/quote] Thanks for the reply. I don't agree with you about 4K projectors being a marketing blabber though. There is definitely a need for 4K projectors. It makes a lot more sense than 4K on TV's as the screen is so much bigger. I already have a quality 1080p projector. That cost my £3000 a fair few years back. It's a Panasonic PTAT6000E (PTAE8000U in the states) it's a 3 LCD projector but I'm very happy with it. Has anyone not tried a Sony 4K projector? Especially with 3D gaming?
Metaloholic said:seen sony on some fair show...was not impressed. i think it´s a little "waste" for projector front.
well ok i get 4k panel if i get it at same price as fullhd. i would rather put the same money into a
3 chip dlp with fullhd panel. With quality fullhd projector there is no need to 4k. And that´s the truth.
it´s just marketing blabber.


Thanks for the reply.
I don't agree with you about 4K projectors being a marketing blabber though. There is definitely a need for 4K projectors. It makes a lot more sense than 4K on TV's as the screen is so much bigger.
I already have a quality 1080p projector. That cost my £3000 a fair few years back. It's a Panasonic PTAT6000E (PTAE8000U in the states) it's a 3 LCD projector but I'm very happy with it.

Has anyone not tried a Sony 4K projector? Especially with 3D gaming?

#4
Posted 01/21/2017 04:19 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="Metaloholic"]I wonder why people imagine you can do passive 3d with one projector ? For image to be passive it need 2 constant image stream from a projector. how is it expected to happen with one lightsource ?[/quote] You can do Passive using a single projector, the only difference is that it "must be 3D capable, unlike Dual Passive where you can use 2D projectors. It's been possible for years, but the hardware is expensive. You need to put an active LCD panel in front of the lens to alter the light waves for each eye that's compatible with Passive polarized glasses. The benefit with Dual Passive projection, was to get around the bandwidth limitations when using HDMI for 1080P@60 per eye. http://www.depthq.com/modulator.html [img]http://www.depthq.com/pic/modulator_noflash.gif[/img][/quote] Not the same thing. Not At all
D-Man11 said:
Metaloholic said:I wonder why people imagine you can do passive 3d with one projector ?
For image to be passive it need 2 constant image stream from a projector.
how is it expected to happen with one lightsource ?


You can do Passive using a single projector, the only difference is that it "must be 3D capable, unlike Dual Passive where you can use 2D projectors. It's been possible for years, but the hardware is expensive.

You need to put an active LCD panel in front of the lens to alter the light waves for each eye that's compatible with Passive polarized glasses.

The benefit with Dual Passive projection, was to get around the bandwidth limitations when using HDMI for 1080P@60 per eye.


http://www.depthq.com/modulator.html


Image


Not the same thing. Not At all

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#5
Posted 01/21/2017 05:03 PM   
[quote="Metaloholic"]Not the same thing. Not At all [/quote] Are you daft? That's how you do passive with a single projector. WTF do you mean it's not the same thing, not at all.
Metaloholic said:Not the same thing. Not At all


Are you daft? That's how you do passive with a single projector.

WTF do you mean it's not the same thing, not at all.

#6
Posted 01/21/2017 05:09 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="Metaloholic"]Not the same thing. Not At all [/quote] Are you daft? That's how you do passive with a single projector. WTF do you mean it's not the same thing, not at all.[/quote] no. you just did not understand my point. You can´t say it´s passive. The claim it´s passive 3D is falsome passive means NO FLICKER. there is flicker as the left and right are done by flicking from one source yes it´s claimed to be, and there is benefits like not having to clibrate projectors as there is only one lamp source but "it´s not the same thing" as real passive 3d that is dual projector setup man you go from 0 to hundred in a heartbeat.
D-Man11 said:
Metaloholic said:Not the same thing. Not At all


Are you daft? That's how you do passive with a single projector.

WTF do you mean it's not the same thing, not at all.



no. you just did not understand my point.


You can´t say it´s passive. The claim it´s passive 3D is falsome
passive means NO FLICKER. there is flicker as the left and right are done by
flicking from one source

yes it´s claimed to be, and there is benefits like not having to clibrate projectors as there
is only one lamp source but "it´s not the same thing" as real passive 3d that is dual projector setup

man you go from 0 to hundred in a heartbeat.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#7
Posted 01/21/2017 06:21 PM   
Passive "does not" mean no flicker Passive means that the "glasses" are not shuttered. And what point was I supposed to derive from "Not the same thing. Not At all" You specifically said that you could not understand how passive could be achieved on a single projector, I explained it. Some people you just can't help :(
Passive "does not" mean no flicker

Passive means that the "glasses" are not shuttered.

And what point was I supposed to derive from "Not the same thing. Not At all"

You specifically said that you could not understand how passive could be achieved on a single projector, I explained it.

Some people you just can't help :(

#8
Posted 01/21/2017 07:07 PM   
Metaloholic what the hell have you been smoking today? First you say 4K projectors are rubbish and are now trying to back pedal on the passive projector debate! I was hoping for a review/impression from someone with first hand experience with 4k projectors and you try to say that 1080p is better!?!?!?!? So no one has tried a 4K projector on these forums? Man that makes me even more curious to what they will be like!
Metaloholic what the hell have you been smoking today?
First you say 4K projectors are rubbish and are now trying to back pedal on the passive projector debate!

I was hoping for a review/impression from someone with first hand experience with 4k projectors and you try to say that 1080p is better!?!?!?!?

So no one has tried a 4K projector on these forums? Man that makes me even more curious to what they will be like!

#9
Posted 01/21/2017 07:39 PM   
We had a poster that was using the Sony early model 4K, I cant remember who it was though. It was a VPL model I think? Other than that, I've never anyone mention using one. Edit:nvm, he was using a 1080P Sony VPL-VW95ES Kraine a projector reviewer that is good to follow, reviewed this Epson. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/epson-introduces-elite-3lcd-reflective-laser-home-theater-projector-with-4k-enhancement-and-hdr-support-300327679.html I periodically check his profile for new things. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=141169809 http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/2016/12/29/comparaison-simulation-4k-benq-w11000-versus-epson-eh-ls10500/
We had a poster that was using the Sony early model 4K, I cant remember who it was though. It was a VPL model I think? Other than that, I've never anyone mention using one.

Edit:nvm, he was using a 1080P Sony VPL-VW95ES

Kraine a projector reviewer that is good to follow, reviewed this Epson.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/epson-introduces-elite-3lcd-reflective-laser-home-theater-projector-with-4k-enhancement-and-hdr-support-300327679.html

I periodically check his profile for new things.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=141169809

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/2016/12/29/comparaison-simulation-4k-benq-w11000-versus-epson-eh-ls10500/

#10
Posted 01/21/2017 07:59 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Passive "does not" mean no flicker Passive means that the "glasses" are not shuttered. And what point was I supposed to derive from "Not the same thing. Not At all" You specifically said that you could not understand how passive could be achieved on a single projector, I explained it. Some people you just can't help :([/quote] Actually i also just realized before your answer yes the passive 3D is true indeed defined by the glasses technology. And im sorry about mixing Things and missinformation about what i understood and not. To me its just wrong to say passive can be achieved with flicking electronics. But if and how it seems to be ok to say I just wanted to point out its kind off missleading statement by the manufacturers of such devices. Yes glasses Are passive And it seems to be the definition of passive but i believe its still far a away from a true passive rig with dual projectors that do not have Flicking electronics in the signal path and have the high lightoutput of dual projector. And i did not say 4K is better than fullhd but visually the difference is not that big Atleast for what i have seen. And i have seen some Sony 4K model. Propably one the earlier models. If some one says a personal oppinnion its not a law. There is No reason to be upset. Sorry if i hurt anybodys feelings. Did not mean to, no gain for me in that
D-Man11 said:Passive "does not" mean no flicker

Passive means that the "glasses" are not shuttered.

And what point was I supposed to derive from "Not the same thing. Not At all"

You specifically said that you could not understand how passive could be achieved on a single projector, I explained it.

Some people you just can't help :(


Actually i also just realized before your answer yes the passive 3D is true indeed defined by the glasses technology.
And im sorry about mixing Things and missinformation about what i understood and not.
To me its just wrong to say passive can be achieved with flicking electronics. But if and how it seems to be ok to say
I just wanted to point out its kind off missleading statement by the manufacturers of such devices. Yes glasses Are passive
And it seems to be the definition of passive but i believe its still far a away from a true passive rig with dual projectors that do not have
Flicking electronics in the signal path and have the high lightoutput of dual projector.

And i did not say 4K is better than fullhd but visually the difference is not that big Atleast for what i have seen.
And i have seen some Sony 4K model.
Propably one the earlier models.

If some one says a personal oppinnion its not a law. There is No reason to be upset.

Sorry if i hurt anybodys feelings. Did not mean to, no gain for me in that

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

#11
Posted 01/21/2017 08:29 PM   
To answer the question of how to do flicker-free projection with a single unit : LG once made a very interestingly designed dual-engine single-lens fullHD passive projector called the CF3D. It produced a circularly polarized 3D picture compatible with RealD cinema glasses at full resolution. The unit didn't sell well, mainly due to the very high price, LG's lower picture quality than competition at this price point and mandatory silver screen for 3D usage. The projector was also stupidly limited to the hdmi1.4a resolution. LG will probably never try this type of projector again, but it shows that a single unit flicker-free passive 3D projector is technically possible.
To answer the question of how to do flicker-free projection with a single unit :
LG once made a very interestingly designed dual-engine single-lens fullHD passive projector called the CF3D.
It produced a circularly polarized 3D picture compatible with RealD cinema glasses at full resolution.

The unit didn't sell well, mainly due to the very high price, LG's lower picture quality than competition at this price point and mandatory silver screen for 3D usage.
The projector was also stupidly limited to the hdmi1.4a resolution.
LG will probably never try this type of projector again, but it shows that a single unit flicker-free passive 3D projector is technically possible.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#12
Posted 01/22/2017 03:37 PM   
Thanks for the links D-Mann. The first link is to a 1080p projector though. Hopefully this optoma UHD60 will force Sony to bring their prices down. No hard feelings metaloholic. I can't believe nobody on here has tried a Sony 4K projector though. Just goes to show how over priced they are!
Thanks for the links D-Mann.
The first link is to a 1080p projector though.
Hopefully this optoma UHD60 will force Sony to bring their prices down.
No hard feelings metaloholic.

I can't believe nobody on here has tried a Sony 4K projector though. Just goes to show how over priced they are!

#13
Posted 01/24/2017 01:41 PM   
[quote="BlackSharkfr"] The projector was also stupidly limited to the hdmi1.4a resolution. LG will probably never try this type of projector again, but it shows that a single unit flicker-free passive 3D projector is technically possible.[/quote] Probably the biggest issue there is the sparkling nature of polarization preserving screens. Next one is 50:1 attenuation of the opposite handed polarization (ghosting). I'd rate flickering or flicker-free down a few notches.
BlackSharkfr said:
The projector was also stupidly limited to the hdmi1.4a resolution.
LG will probably never try this type of projector again, but it shows that a single unit flicker-free passive 3D projector is technically possible.


Probably the biggest issue there is the sparkling nature of polarization preserving screens.

Next one is 50:1 attenuation of the opposite handed polarization (ghosting).

I'd rate flickering or flicker-free down a few notches.

#14
Posted 01/24/2017 02:41 PM   
[quote="ashiman"][quote="BlackSharkfr"] The projector was also stupidly limited to the hdmi1.4a resolution. LG will probably never try this type of projector again, but it shows that a single unit flicker-free passive 3D projector is technically possible.[/quote] Probably the biggest issue there is the sparkling nature of polarization preserving screens. Next one is 50:1 attenuation of the opposite handed polarization (ghosting). I'd rate flickering or flicker-free down a few notches.[/quote] Indeed, the sparkling issue is the bane of polarization preserving screens. And people who are ready to spend a couple thousands on very high end projectors love too much classic 2D cinema to accept any compromise for a few 3D movies and games. There is some hope though : recent professional screens have improved significantly and achieve much better compromises. I own such a screen (XtremScreen Daylight 2.0) and it works great for both 2D and polarized 3D, but these are complex multi-layered screen materials you cannot be DIY reproduced at home. You have to buy straight to the manufacturer (at high cost), so these types of screens are out for the vast majority of the market. 50:1 extinction is a very poor polarization preserving screen. Typical silverscreens hang above 100:1. Mine is somewhere between 100:1 and 150:1 (Manufacturer does not publish extinction ratio and I don't have precise measuring equipment)
ashiman said:
BlackSharkfr said:
The projector was also stupidly limited to the hdmi1.4a resolution.
LG will probably never try this type of projector again, but it shows that a single unit flicker-free passive 3D projector is technically possible.


Probably the biggest issue there is the sparkling nature of polarization preserving screens.

Next one is 50:1 attenuation of the opposite handed polarization (ghosting).

I'd rate flickering or flicker-free down a few notches.


Indeed, the sparkling issue is the bane of polarization preserving screens. And people who are ready to spend a couple thousands on very high end projectors love too much classic 2D cinema to accept any compromise for a few 3D movies and games.

There is some hope though : recent professional screens have improved significantly and achieve much better compromises. I own such a screen (XtremScreen Daylight 2.0) and it works great for both 2D and polarized 3D, but these are complex multi-layered screen materials you cannot be DIY reproduced at home. You have to buy straight to the manufacturer (at high cost), so these types of screens are out for the vast majority of the market.

50:1 extinction is a very poor polarization preserving screen.
Typical silverscreens hang above 100:1. Mine is somewhere between 100:1 and 150:1 (Manufacturer does not publish extinction ratio and I don't have precise measuring equipment)

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#15
Posted 01/24/2017 05:36 PM   
  1 / 3    
Scroll To Top