[quote="Conan481"]I'm usually pretty optimistic on this board and was eager to jump on board when DHR started releasing fix's and donated over 100USD last month but unfortunately it looks like it's too little to late.
After Helifax stating that he was going to be on hiatus due to a new job, that means that almost all the shader hackers are gone now :(
I'm still happy that we have what we have, and I'm grateful that we have a few new and up and comers like Master Otaku, and I'll gladly support DHR with his fix of Outlast 2 -but the days of getting fix's for big tripple AAA games looks like it's over :(
The shader hackers here were saints for what they did and it's crazy how much time they spent/wasted on fixing or trying to fix games. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for someone like Helifax to spend countless hours (sometimes hundreds) to fix games, and then not even being able to fix the game in the case of Mass Effect Andromeda.
Game fix's have become more and more complicated recently. With so many things like tile lighting, compute shaders, etc, etc, the time it takes to fix a game has pushed most shader hackers away, and I don't blame them one bit, as it's literally a full time job to keep fixing games!
Looks like I'm gonna stick mostly with 2D 4K gaming and hopefully be treated to the occasional 3D vision fix if available.
I'm mostly been getting my 3D kicks from VR now and that is the future of 3D gaming. Samsung and google have both announced super high res screens, and they will be here sooner then we ever thought.
I'm betting Nvidia will get back and release 3D vision 3.0 when enough VR headsets have been sold to make it profitable for them. [/quote]
I think you spoke for a lot of different people here, so I want to respond. This isn't directed at you alone, you just spelled out common complaints. Please insert "you all" when I say "you".
The game fixing status always seems to be a Rorschach test, more than anything else. If people are prone to despair, they can find despair. If people are prone to happiness, there is a lot of happiness.
Is it perfect? Oh, hell no. It's always been hard, it will always be hard. Recent games as a whole are not necessarily harder to fix than before. HelixMod with ASM on an unknown game engine was pretty goddamn hard. There are new fads in game engines like tile-lights, which DarkStarSword has made at least one actual fix for, so the basic idea has been cracked. We have sort-of workarounds for games like ME:A, and ME:Catalyst.
We have Unity engine python scripts that work for pretty much all older games, and we have a new approach using a direct mode plugin on deck that will be a universal approach. UE4 games are well understood, but a lot of work.
So I don't agree with the thought that games are harder now than they've been. With maybe the possible exception of AAA games which tend to use their own freakish game engines. If the only thing you care about is the newest AAA games, you are likely prone to despair. If you are willing to play indie and other more interesting games, you will find a lot of happiness.
For me personally, I don't care about AAA games. As a general rule they've sucked for the last 3 years, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. They've gone all movie studio, releasing sequel after sequel. Hell Ubisoft only knows how to make one game now. Has anyone noticed that every single game they release is the same template, reskinned? Climb a tower, unlock the map, do missions, fetch collectibles. Far Cry 4 with DarkStarSword's fix is unbelievably beautiful- and it's too boring to finish.
But, other people are interested and have different opinions. For example, Helifax and DHR have been doing some great work on AAA games. Mike_ar69 quietly updated some fixes. Masterotaku made some killer fixes for strange AAA games like Bayonetta and an update for Metro. Nephilim Jones has been taking some AAA games from unplayble to playable. Does none of that count?
On the money side of things, I haven't spoken about it before, because I just don't like it. However, I'm not going to try to stand in the way of anyone who wants to do that.
My initial reaction was that it would make the community weaker by making it OK to just 'pay' for a fix instead of putting effort into the community. It absolves people of the need to give back, because they already gave back by paying. That was my thought. I think I was wrong, it doesn't seemed to have hurt the community overall, I still see numerous people picking up the tools and learning how.
If getting a contribution for fixing gives DHR or anyone else motivation to make more fixes, then I'm all for it. Whatever helps to make more fixes available is good for all of us.
Warning, Grievance ahead:
Now I really want to take the community to task however. In my opinion everyone has become complacent and lazy, and maybe a little entitled about fixes.
If you check the HelixModBlog, there were something like 35 entries in the last two months. That doesn't seem good enough? That seems like the end of the road?
Yes we've seen some high profile departures. People come and people go. Real life gets in the way. Motivations change. As long as we are still getting fixes, I still strongly suggest it's not dead.
More to the point- why don't *you all* pick up the tools and start? Stop coasting and relying on others and learn how to fix games. Maybe add to the community by documenting things. Add by trying out different profiles. Help debugging. Patch an old fix that is broken. Ask yourself, are you doing anything to help out, or just taking?
I stopped doing some things because I have less time now, but also, I'm getting no help. That thread where I talked about different drivers and whether they were any good or not? I stopped because literally no one could be bothered to post their experience. It has no value if it's only my experience. It's not a community when only a handful of people contribute and everyone else just takes.
What about bug reports? I'm maintaining that list of broken problems. If you've run across a bug, did you report it to NVidia? Why not? It's not my job, it's everyone's job.
Then, people come here to proudly tell us how they've given up 3D gaming because it's just too much trouble. Yeah? Came here just to kick the rest of us in the teeth? Charming. The thing is, no one here gives a shit about your 2D gaming. Knock yourself out.
Or people proudly proclaim that they've cracked the code, and VR is the future of gaming. Give up on 3D while you can, and join the true gaming. Please. VR is fine, it has a point. But to proclaim it will replace 3D gaming altogether is just ridiculous.
All of this is nothing more than people making a personal decision, then trying to make themselves 'right' by recruiting people to their idea. If you really don't care about 3D anymore, you'd just leave, not come here to tell us we are doing it wrong.
Aren't people acting just a little entitled? There aren't any new AAA games being fixed? Except for the ones that just were of course. Did anybody say we could fix everything? Or that anyone is even interested? Why the expectation that AAA games get fixed at all?
What about the quality of the fixes? It seems like everyone is really demanding that things need to be perfect now. Earlier on, and at least for me personally, I don't need perfection. I really just need playable. If it's not good enough for you, that's perfectly OK. But you don't need to come and tell us we are doing it wrong. There is of course a fine line between reporting problems, and being a dick. I recommend using please and thank you more often.
Maybe this is all a side-effect of a smaller community overall. So less people playing, less people fixing, as they are sucked away by other constraints, or other fun like VR.
HelixModBlog for May had more page hits than last May, so at least web traffic does not suggest that. I also see new names popping up in the forum all the time. Definitely not growing exactly, but is it actually shrinking, or is that the Rorschach test?
If you all want more game fixes, you need to take charge and start doing it too. We have never had so many killer resources, tutorials, and examples. You need to step up your game, spend some of *your* time helping out. Stop making excuses and rationalizations for why you just don't have the time.
Since it's spring, and we are having this yearly conversation, I will repeat myself too. As long as people are continuing to make fixes, it's not dead.
Conan481 said:I'm usually pretty optimistic on this board and was eager to jump on board when DHR started releasing fix's and donated over 100USD last month but unfortunately it looks like it's too little to late.
After Helifax stating that he was going to be on hiatus due to a new job, that means that almost all the shader hackers are gone now :(
I'm still happy that we have what we have, and I'm grateful that we have a few new and up and comers like Master Otaku, and I'll gladly support DHR with his fix of Outlast 2 -but the days of getting fix's for big tripple AAA games looks like it's over :(
The shader hackers here were saints for what they did and it's crazy how much time they spent/wasted on fixing or trying to fix games. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for someone like Helifax to spend countless hours (sometimes hundreds) to fix games, and then not even being able to fix the game in the case of Mass Effect Andromeda.
Game fix's have become more and more complicated recently. With so many things like tile lighting, compute shaders, etc, etc, the time it takes to fix a game has pushed most shader hackers away, and I don't blame them one bit, as it's literally a full time job to keep fixing games!
Looks like I'm gonna stick mostly with 2D 4K gaming and hopefully be treated to the occasional 3D vision fix if available.
I'm mostly been getting my 3D kicks from VR now and that is the future of 3D gaming. Samsung and google have both announced super high res screens, and they will be here sooner then we ever thought.
I'm betting Nvidia will get back and release 3D vision 3.0 when enough VR headsets have been sold to make it profitable for them.
I think you spoke for a lot of different people here, so I want to respond. This isn't directed at you alone, you just spelled out common complaints. Please insert "you all" when I say "you".
The game fixing status always seems to be a Rorschach test, more than anything else. If people are prone to despair, they can find despair. If people are prone to happiness, there is a lot of happiness.
Is it perfect? Oh, hell no. It's always been hard, it will always be hard. Recent games as a whole are not necessarily harder to fix than before. HelixMod with ASM on an unknown game engine was pretty goddamn hard. There are new fads in game engines like tile-lights, which DarkStarSword has made at least one actual fix for, so the basic idea has been cracked. We have sort-of workarounds for games like ME:A, and ME:Catalyst.
We have Unity engine python scripts that work for pretty much all older games, and we have a new approach using a direct mode plugin on deck that will be a universal approach. UE4 games are well understood, but a lot of work.
So I don't agree with the thought that games are harder now than they've been. With maybe the possible exception of AAA games which tend to use their own freakish game engines. If the only thing you care about is the newest AAA games, you are likely prone to despair. If you are willing to play indie and other more interesting games, you will find a lot of happiness.
For me personally, I don't care about AAA games. As a general rule they've sucked for the last 3 years, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. They've gone all movie studio, releasing sequel after sequel. Hell Ubisoft only knows how to make one game now. Has anyone noticed that every single game they release is the same template, reskinned? Climb a tower, unlock the map, do missions, fetch collectibles. Far Cry 4 with DarkStarSword's fix is unbelievably beautiful- and it's too boring to finish.
But, other people are interested and have different opinions. For example, Helifax and DHR have been doing some great work on AAA games. Mike_ar69 quietly updated some fixes. Masterotaku made some killer fixes for strange AAA games like Bayonetta and an update for Metro. Nephilim Jones has been taking some AAA games from unplayble to playable. Does none of that count?
On the money side of things, I haven't spoken about it before, because I just don't like it. However, I'm not going to try to stand in the way of anyone who wants to do that.
My initial reaction was that it would make the community weaker by making it OK to just 'pay' for a fix instead of putting effort into the community. It absolves people of the need to give back, because they already gave back by paying. That was my thought. I think I was wrong, it doesn't seemed to have hurt the community overall, I still see numerous people picking up the tools and learning how.
If getting a contribution for fixing gives DHR or anyone else motivation to make more fixes, then I'm all for it. Whatever helps to make more fixes available is good for all of us.
Warning, Grievance ahead:
Now I really want to take the community to task however. In my opinion everyone has become complacent and lazy, and maybe a little entitled about fixes.
If you check the HelixModBlog, there were something like 35 entries in the last two months. That doesn't seem good enough? That seems like the end of the road?
Yes we've seen some high profile departures. People come and people go. Real life gets in the way. Motivations change. As long as we are still getting fixes, I still strongly suggest it's not dead.
More to the point- why don't *you all* pick up the tools and start? Stop coasting and relying on others and learn how to fix games. Maybe add to the community by documenting things. Add by trying out different profiles. Help debugging. Patch an old fix that is broken. Ask yourself, are you doing anything to help out, or just taking?
I stopped doing some things because I have less time now, but also, I'm getting no help. That thread where I talked about different drivers and whether they were any good or not? I stopped because literally no one could be bothered to post their experience. It has no value if it's only my experience. It's not a community when only a handful of people contribute and everyone else just takes.
What about bug reports? I'm maintaining that list of broken problems. If you've run across a bug, did you report it to NVidia? Why not? It's not my job, it's everyone's job.
Then, people come here to proudly tell us how they've given up 3D gaming because it's just too much trouble. Yeah? Came here just to kick the rest of us in the teeth? Charming. The thing is, no one here gives a shit about your 2D gaming. Knock yourself out.
Or people proudly proclaim that they've cracked the code, and VR is the future of gaming. Give up on 3D while you can, and join the true gaming. Please. VR is fine, it has a point. But to proclaim it will replace 3D gaming altogether is just ridiculous.
All of this is nothing more than people making a personal decision, then trying to make themselves 'right' by recruiting people to their idea. If you really don't care about 3D anymore, you'd just leave, not come here to tell us we are doing it wrong.
Aren't people acting just a little entitled? There aren't any new AAA games being fixed? Except for the ones that just were of course. Did anybody say we could fix everything? Or that anyone is even interested? Why the expectation that AAA games get fixed at all?
What about the quality of the fixes? It seems like everyone is really demanding that things need to be perfect now. Earlier on, and at least for me personally, I don't need perfection. I really just need playable. If it's not good enough for you, that's perfectly OK. But you don't need to come and tell us we are doing it wrong. There is of course a fine line between reporting problems, and being a dick. I recommend using please and thank you more often.
Maybe this is all a side-effect of a smaller community overall. So less people playing, less people fixing, as they are sucked away by other constraints, or other fun like VR.
HelixModBlog for May had more page hits than last May, so at least web traffic does not suggest that. I also see new names popping up in the forum all the time. Definitely not growing exactly, but is it actually shrinking, or is that the Rorschach test?
If you all want more game fixes, you need to take charge and start doing it too. We have never had so many killer resources, tutorials, and examples. You need to step up your game, spend some of *your* time helping out. Stop making excuses and rationalizations for why you just don't have the time.
Since it's spring, and we are having this yearly conversation, I will repeat myself too. As long as people are continuing to make fixes, it's not dead.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Wow...bo3b... I don't even know what to say!
Don't take it the wrong way, as I don't mean it like that, but WOW! You really hit the nails there:) (Can you be the next candidate for the next President in USA?)
I mean, you REALLY HIT THE NAILS THERE (in a very good way!).
My view is that people currently, love more to "consume" than "invest" in their pleasure/desire! Like DHR said (and that's why he decided to ASK for money for fixes), is that more and more people just "consume" and can't be bothered EVEN TO SAY A THANK YOU! (Obviously, this does not apply to the regular and "old-timers" users, or the new users that always say a thank you at least:) )
But, I try to understand everyone's stance! The people who donated to me and others (without asking, but they feel like it), the people who at least SAY A THANK YOU for you hundreds of hours that you sunk into a fix and so on;)
I always believed and I want to believe THAT THIS COMMUNITY IS BASED ON HUMANITY and SHARING and LOVE for games and Stereo 3D!
But, you have a point there, bo3b! Some of the fault also is with us ;)) We, started to make fixes so damn close to perfection, that people (who don't understand how programming works) started to expect that we can make every game (AAA or not) from completely garbage in Stereo 3D to 3D Vision Ready!
As a lot of us, modders, know, this is FAR FROM THE TRUTH! In reality there are certain THINGS we CANNOT CONTROL and only the TRUE DEVELOPER of the game could change it to work for us in 3D Vision! (But ofc, developers aren't that much interested in this tech). Frostbite 3 Engine is the PRIME example! Is AWESOME for how it looks, but it "cheats so many times and cuts corners" that there is NO WAY we could 100% fix it to work in 3D Vision (not that I am aware of).
So, is somehow "our" fault for providing flawless fixes in the past... and the regular player expects now, that we can somehow make everything like that:) This is not TRUE, some things we can, others we can't:(
(Look at the The Surge - that works perfect in SLI - One monitor, but doesn't on other configurations, including SLI - Surround. Same was with Lords of the Fallen - same engine).
Is so much we can do! If people start bragging about it, then let them! I don't care and neither should any of the modders! We don't SAY we make the game PERFECT in 3D Vision! We say we provide a FIX to make it playable! If we can MAKE IT PERFECT, THAT IS A BONUS!
For the last 7 years I wanted to see more people involved into fixing and trying to make 3D Vision better! Is the reason I started looking into fixing the games! (I know when I started, Helix was very strong and I knew basically zero about how to even look at fixing a game for 3D Vision :)) but here I am now... Is not hard if you are willing to LEARN and be PASSIONATE ABOUT IT !)
PS: bo3b, you really should be a PR person;)) You always say it on the spot, the perfect way! ;)
PPS: Thank you, to everyone who wished me in my next job endeavour! I want to say one thing:) That my OpenGL to 3D Vision DOOM(2016) fix, helped a lot:) It was show-cased! So, never believe this technology will die! it may "set" for a time, but it will always "rise" ;)
Don't be afraid to JUMP IN! After all, nobody is born learnt! And the people here are always willing to help!
Just be REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT STEREO 3D and TECHNOLOGY and you will be an awesome 3D Vision Fixer in NO-TIME ;)
Wow...bo3b... I don't even know what to say!
Don't take it the wrong way, as I don't mean it like that, but WOW! You really hit the nails there:) (Can you be the next candidate for the next President in USA?)
I mean, you REALLY HIT THE NAILS THERE (in a very good way!).
My view is that people currently, love more to "consume" than "invest" in their pleasure/desire! Like DHR said (and that's why he decided to ASK for money for fixes), is that more and more people just "consume" and can't be bothered EVEN TO SAY A THANK YOU! (Obviously, this does not apply to the regular and "old-timers" users, or the new users that always say a thank you at least:) )
But, I try to understand everyone's stance! The people who donated to me and others (without asking, but they feel like it), the people who at least SAY A THANK YOU for you hundreds of hours that you sunk into a fix and so on;)
I always believed and I want to believe THAT THIS COMMUNITY IS BASED ON HUMANITY and SHARING and LOVE for games and Stereo 3D!
But, you have a point there, bo3b! Some of the fault also is with us ;)) We, started to make fixes so damn close to perfection, that people (who don't understand how programming works) started to expect that we can make every game (AAA or not) from completely garbage in Stereo 3D to 3D Vision Ready!
As a lot of us, modders, know, this is FAR FROM THE TRUTH! In reality there are certain THINGS we CANNOT CONTROL and only the TRUE DEVELOPER of the game could change it to work for us in 3D Vision! (But ofc, developers aren't that much interested in this tech). Frostbite 3 Engine is the PRIME example! Is AWESOME for how it looks, but it "cheats so many times and cuts corners" that there is NO WAY we could 100% fix it to work in 3D Vision (not that I am aware of).
So, is somehow "our" fault for providing flawless fixes in the past... and the regular player expects now, that we can somehow make everything like that:) This is not TRUE, some things we can, others we can't:(
(Look at the The Surge - that works perfect in SLI - One monitor, but doesn't on other configurations, including SLI - Surround. Same was with Lords of the Fallen - same engine).
Is so much we can do! If people start bragging about it, then let them! I don't care and neither should any of the modders! We don't SAY we make the game PERFECT in 3D Vision! We say we provide a FIX to make it playable! If we can MAKE IT PERFECT, THAT IS A BONUS!
For the last 7 years I wanted to see more people involved into fixing and trying to make 3D Vision better! Is the reason I started looking into fixing the games! (I know when I started, Helix was very strong and I knew basically zero about how to even look at fixing a game for 3D Vision :)) but here I am now... Is not hard if you are willing to LEARN and be PASSIONATE ABOUT IT !)
PS: bo3b, you really should be a PR person;)) You always say it on the spot, the perfect way! ;)
PPS: Thank you, to everyone who wished me in my next job endeavour! I want to say one thing:) That my OpenGL to 3D Vision DOOM(2016) fix, helped a lot:) It was show-cased! So, never believe this technology will die! it may "set" for a time, but it will always "rise" ;)
Don't be afraid to JUMP IN! After all, nobody is born learnt! And the people here are always willing to help!
Just be REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT STEREO 3D and TECHNOLOGY and you will be an awesome 3D Vision Fixer in NO-TIME ;)
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
Great posts, i totally agree about this way of thinking and the value you prone.
To sum up lol, move your ass and try to be constructive and add a brick in the wall of this great community.
Thank you Bo3b for your wise words. Sometimes this slight feeling of dispair even overcomes me. But thank you for your post, which puts me back on the right track. I wish I would be able to fix some games myself. But I never figured out how to fix The Ball. One day, I will make it :).
Thank you Bo3b for your wise words. Sometimes this slight feeling of dispair even overcomes me. But thank you for your post, which puts me back on the right track. I wish I would be able to fix some games myself. But I never figured out how to fix The Ball. One day, I will make it :).
Very well said, bo3b and helifax. Starting to fix stuff isn't hard if you know some programming (even making websites like I do at my job was enough inspiration), and there are a lot of already made fixes to look at past formulas and fixing methods. Some games can be hard, but it depends on the engine. The frustrating part comes when sometimes it's 95% done and some imperfections are very hard to fix (that's where I usually waste a lot of time before a final release, like I'm doing with Tekken 7).
Nowadays, I even get more fun when I fix games than when I play them :p. And watching the result of your own well fixed game makes you feel realized.
If there were 10 times more fixers than now, almost every game in existence would be fixed, I think.
Very well said, bo3b and helifax. Starting to fix stuff isn't hard if you know some programming (even making websites like I do at my job was enough inspiration), and there are a lot of already made fixes to look at past formulas and fixing methods. Some games can be hard, but it depends on the engine. The frustrating part comes when sometimes it's 95% done and some imperfections are very hard to fix (that's where I usually waste a lot of time before a final release, like I'm doing with Tekken 7).
Nowadays, I even get more fun when I fix games than when I play them :p. And watching the result of your own well fixed game makes you feel realized.
If there were 10 times more fixers than now, almost every game in existence would be fixed, I think.
Well there is Bo3b's wiki and although it's no 3dmigoto specific the general concepts are the same so I would start there, then there is alot of Information right on the blog that DJ-RK compiled. I did and with a bit of direct help and asking questions I am slowly getting there, and providing I can get around with fixing an issue I have with the wrapper crashing in windows 10 with something I am working on I will soon release my first real fix. (I have previously updated one.) I would stress that if people want to keep this alive they would be in their best interests to start trying to learn themselves.
I wish there was a more specific consise 3dmigoto tutorial focusing step by step on a common game engine and using a fixed game as an example, as this is the best way I personally learn but obviously this kind of thing is very time consuming to create.
I have to agree I am alot less interested in AAA games these days, and they essentially are the same thing with different skins. Or remnants of a loved developer that is no longer around but masquerades under their moniker. *cough* Bioware.
Completely agree with every sentiment bo3b posted, and honestly looking at the blog I don't see it as bad at all, there have been a whole heaps of fixes in the last month or so and thanks to Masterotaku my favourite game is near perfect in 3dvision. The sky's not falling yet, but if everyone just sits around and takes, takes takes maybe one day in the future it will.
Well there is Bo3b's wiki and although it's no 3dmigoto specific the general concepts are the same so I would start there, then there is alot of Information right on the blog that DJ-RK compiled. I did and with a bit of direct help and asking questions I am slowly getting there, and providing I can get around with fixing an issue I have with the wrapper crashing in windows 10 with something I am working on I will soon release my first real fix. (I have previously updated one.) I would stress that if people want to keep this alive they would be in their best interests to start trying to learn themselves.
I wish there was a more specific consise 3dmigoto tutorial focusing step by step on a common game engine and using a fixed game as an example, as this is the best way I personally learn but obviously this kind of thing is very time consuming to create.
I have to agree I am alot less interested in AAA games these days, and they essentially are the same thing with different skins. Or remnants of a loved developer that is no longer around but masquerades under their moniker. *cough* Bioware.
Completely agree with every sentiment bo3b posted, and honestly looking at the blog I don't see it as bad at all, there have been a whole heaps of fixes in the last month or so and thanks to Masterotaku my favourite game is near perfect in 3dvision. The sky's not falling yet, but if everyone just sits around and takes, takes takes maybe one day in the future it will.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z
I think you spoke for a lot of different people here, so I want to respond. This isn't directed at you alone, you just spelled out common complaints. Please insert "you all" when I say "you".
The game fixing status always seems to be a Rorschach test, more than anything else. If people are prone to despair, they can find despair. If people are prone to happiness, there is a lot of happiness.
Is it perfect? Oh, hell no. It's always been hard, it will always be hard. Recent games as a whole are not necessarily harder to fix than before. HelixMod with ASM on an unknown game engine was pretty goddamn hard. There are new fads in game engines like tile-lights, which DarkStarSword has made at least one actual fix for, so the basic idea has been cracked. We have sort-of workarounds for games like ME:A, and ME:Catalyst.
We have Unity engine python scripts that work for pretty much all older games, and we have a new approach using a direct mode plugin on deck that will be a universal approach. UE4 games are well understood, but a lot of work.
So I don't agree with the thought that games are harder now than they've been. With maybe the possible exception of AAA games which tend to use their own freakish game engines. If the only thing you care about is the newest AAA games, you are likely prone to despair. If you are willing to play indie and other more interesting games, you will find a lot of happiness.
For me personally, I don't care about AAA games. As a general rule they've sucked for the last 3 years, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. They've gone all movie studio, releasing sequel after sequel. Hell Ubisoft only knows how to make one game now. Has anyone noticed that every single game they release is the same template, reskinned? Climb a tower, unlock the map, do missions, fetch collectibles. Far Cry 4 with DarkStarSword's fix is unbelievably beautiful- and it's too boring to finish.
But, other people are interested and have different opinions. For example, Helifax and DHR have been doing some great work on AAA games. Mike_ar69 quietly updated some fixes. Masterotaku made some killer fixes for strange AAA games like Bayonetta and an update for Metro. Nephilim Jones has been taking some AAA games from unplayble to playable. Does none of that count?
On the money side of things, I haven't spoken about it before, because I just don't like it. However, I'm not going to try to stand in the way of anyone who wants to do that.
My initial reaction was that it would make the community weaker by making it OK to just 'pay' for a fix instead of putting effort into the community. It absolves people of the need to give back, because they already gave back by paying. That was my thought. I think I was wrong, it doesn't seemed to have hurt the community overall, I still see numerous people picking up the tools and learning how.
If getting a contribution for fixing gives DHR or anyone else motivation to make more fixes, then I'm all for it. Whatever helps to make more fixes available is good for all of us.
Warning, Grievance ahead:
Now I really want to take the community to task however. In my opinion everyone has become complacent and lazy, and maybe a little entitled about fixes.
If you check the HelixModBlog, there were something like 35 entries in the last two months. That doesn't seem good enough? That seems like the end of the road?
Yes we've seen some high profile departures. People come and people go. Real life gets in the way. Motivations change. As long as we are still getting fixes, I still strongly suggest it's not dead.
More to the point- why don't *you all* pick up the tools and start? Stop coasting and relying on others and learn how to fix games. Maybe add to the community by documenting things. Add by trying out different profiles. Help debugging. Patch an old fix that is broken. Ask yourself, are you doing anything to help out, or just taking?
I stopped doing some things because I have less time now, but also, I'm getting no help. That thread where I talked about different drivers and whether they were any good or not? I stopped because literally no one could be bothered to post their experience. It has no value if it's only my experience. It's not a community when only a handful of people contribute and everyone else just takes.
What about bug reports? I'm maintaining that list of broken problems. If you've run across a bug, did you report it to NVidia? Why not? It's not my job, it's everyone's job.
Then, people come here to proudly tell us how they've given up 3D gaming because it's just too much trouble. Yeah? Came here just to kick the rest of us in the teeth? Charming. The thing is, no one here gives a shit about your 2D gaming. Knock yourself out.
Or people proudly proclaim that they've cracked the code, and VR is the future of gaming. Give up on 3D while you can, and join the true gaming. Please. VR is fine, it has a point. But to proclaim it will replace 3D gaming altogether is just ridiculous.
All of this is nothing more than people making a personal decision, then trying to make themselves 'right' by recruiting people to their idea. If you really don't care about 3D anymore, you'd just leave, not come here to tell us we are doing it wrong.
Aren't people acting just a little entitled? There aren't any new AAA games being fixed? Except for the ones that just were of course. Did anybody say we could fix everything? Or that anyone is even interested? Why the expectation that AAA games get fixed at all?
What about the quality of the fixes? It seems like everyone is really demanding that things need to be perfect now. Earlier on, and at least for me personally, I don't need perfection. I really just need playable. If it's not good enough for you, that's perfectly OK. But you don't need to come and tell us we are doing it wrong. There is of course a fine line between reporting problems, and being a dick. I recommend using please and thank you more often.
Maybe this is all a side-effect of a smaller community overall. So less people playing, less people fixing, as they are sucked away by other constraints, or other fun like VR.
HelixModBlog for May had more page hits than last May, so at least web traffic does not suggest that. I also see new names popping up in the forum all the time. Definitely not growing exactly, but is it actually shrinking, or is that the Rorschach test?
If you all want more game fixes, you need to take charge and start doing it too. We have never had so many killer resources, tutorials, and examples. You need to step up your game, spend some of *your* time helping out. Stop making excuses and rationalizations for why you just don't have the time.
Since it's spring, and we are having this yearly conversation, I will repeat myself too. As long as people are continuing to make fixes, it's not dead.
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Don't take it the wrong way, as I don't mean it like that, but WOW! You really hit the nails there:) (Can you be the next candidate for the next President in USA?)
I mean, you REALLY HIT THE NAILS THERE (in a very good way!).
My view is that people currently, love more to "consume" than "invest" in their pleasure/desire! Like DHR said (and that's why he decided to ASK for money for fixes), is that more and more people just "consume" and can't be bothered EVEN TO SAY A THANK YOU! (Obviously, this does not apply to the regular and "old-timers" users, or the new users that always say a thank you at least:) )
But, I try to understand everyone's stance! The people who donated to me and others (without asking, but they feel like it), the people who at least SAY A THANK YOU for you hundreds of hours that you sunk into a fix and so on;)
I always believed and I want to believe THAT THIS COMMUNITY IS BASED ON HUMANITY and SHARING and LOVE for games and Stereo 3D!
But, you have a point there, bo3b! Some of the fault also is with us ;)) We, started to make fixes so damn close to perfection, that people (who don't understand how programming works) started to expect that we can make every game (AAA or not) from completely garbage in Stereo 3D to 3D Vision Ready!
As a lot of us, modders, know, this is FAR FROM THE TRUTH! In reality there are certain THINGS we CANNOT CONTROL and only the TRUE DEVELOPER of the game could change it to work for us in 3D Vision! (But ofc, developers aren't that much interested in this tech). Frostbite 3 Engine is the PRIME example! Is AWESOME for how it looks, but it "cheats so many times and cuts corners" that there is NO WAY we could 100% fix it to work in 3D Vision (not that I am aware of).
So, is somehow "our" fault for providing flawless fixes in the past... and the regular player expects now, that we can somehow make everything like that:) This is not TRUE, some things we can, others we can't:(
(Look at the The Surge - that works perfect in SLI - One monitor, but doesn't on other configurations, including SLI - Surround. Same was with Lords of the Fallen - same engine).
Is so much we can do! If people start bragging about it, then let them! I don't care and neither should any of the modders! We don't SAY we make the game PERFECT in 3D Vision! We say we provide a FIX to make it playable! If we can MAKE IT PERFECT, THAT IS A BONUS!
For the last 7 years I wanted to see more people involved into fixing and trying to make 3D Vision better! Is the reason I started looking into fixing the games! (I know when I started, Helix was very strong and I knew basically zero about how to even look at fixing a game for 3D Vision :)) but here I am now... Is not hard if you are willing to LEARN and be PASSIONATE ABOUT IT !)
PS: bo3b, you really should be a PR person;)) You always say it on the spot, the perfect way! ;)
PPS: Thank you, to everyone who wished me in my next job endeavour! I want to say one thing:) That my OpenGL to 3D Vision DOOM(2016) fix, helped a lot:) It was show-cased! So, never believe this technology will die! it may "set" for a time, but it will always "rise" ;)
Don't be afraid to JUMP IN! After all, nobody is born learnt! And the people here are always willing to help!
Just be REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT STEREO 3D and TECHNOLOGY and you will be an awesome 3D Vision Fixer in NO-TIME ;)
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Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
To sum up lol, move your ass and try to be constructive and add a brick in the wall of this great community.
Come on guys, we can do it better than that !!
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And lots of ram and HD's ;)
+1
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Nowadays, I even get more fun when I fix games than when I play them :p. And watching the result of your own well fixed game makes you feel realized.
If there were 10 times more fixers than now, almost every game in existence would be fixed, I think.
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Best site Emulation on the net : http://www.emu-france.com/
I wish there was a more specific consise 3dmigoto tutorial focusing step by step on a common game engine and using a fixed game as an example, as this is the best way I personally learn but obviously this kind of thing is very time consuming to create.
I have to agree I am alot less interested in AAA games these days, and they essentially are the same thing with different skins. Or remnants of a loved developer that is no longer around but masquerades under their moniker. *cough* Bioware.
Completely agree with every sentiment bo3b posted, and honestly looking at the blog I don't see it as bad at all, there have been a whole heaps of fixes in the last month or so and thanks to Masterotaku my favourite game is near perfect in 3dvision. The sky's not falling yet, but if everyone just sits around and takes, takes takes maybe one day in the future it will.
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Obutto R3volution.
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