nVidia announces new 3DTV Play software
  3 / 5    
"Mitsubishi and Samsung DLP or checkerboard based televisions will not be supported by 3DTV Play. You will either have to use the NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision Glasses, or alternative driver solution (.e.g DDD and iZ3D). "

Does this mean no 3d blue ray on a DLP tv?
"Mitsubishi and Samsung DLP or checkerboard based televisions will not be supported by 3DTV Play. You will either have to use the NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision Glasses, or alternative driver solution (.e.g DDD and iZ3D). "



Does this mean no 3d blue ray on a DLP tv?

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#31
Posted 03/16/2010 06:50 AM   
It looks like there's a high risk that 3d vision glasses won't work at all with some of the new tvs, only the propietary 3d HDTV glasses.

I hope there's some kind of support for proyectors too, I can't go back from 100'' proyector right now.

Also no support for 1080p60hz per eye looks terrible.
It looks like there's a high risk that 3d vision glasses won't work at all with some of the new tvs, only the propietary 3d HDTV glasses.



I hope there's some kind of support for proyectors too, I can't go back from 100'' proyector right now.



Also no support for 1080p60hz per eye looks terrible.

#32
Posted 03/16/2010 09:42 AM   
two questions bothers me:
1) Where and how can i prove that i am 3d vision owner? do i need to register somewhere? I want that 3dplay software!
2) will my glasses work on the 3d HDTVs? any brand?

as for the second question, i've read the trick someone did on internet: he started the 3d v ideoplayer on PC forcing nvidia glasses to shutter and played Avatar game on Xbox 360 without problem. I wonder if the same trick can be achieved with PC gaming on 3d HDTVs?
two questions bothers me:

1) Where and how can i prove that i am 3d vision owner? do i need to register somewhere? I want that 3dplay software!

2) will my glasses work on the 3d HDTVs? any brand?



as for the second question, i've read the trick someone did on internet: he started the 3d v ideoplayer on PC forcing nvidia glasses to shutter and played Avatar game on Xbox 360 without problem. I wonder if the same trick can be achieved with PC gaming on 3d HDTVs?

#33
Posted 03/16/2010 10:21 AM   
[quote name='toh' post='1020301' date='Mar 16 2010, 11:21 AM']1) Where and how can i prove that i am 3d vision owner? do i need to register somewhere? I want that 3dplay software![/quote]
If you are an owner you have the emitterdingledongle - same way it works now. Emitter connected = drop down box active. So I asume it will be integrated into 3Dvision drivers for existing users, which should also give an positive answer to:
[quote name='toh' post='1020301' date='Mar 16 2010, 11:21 AM']2) will my glasses work on the 3d HDTVs? any brand?[/quote]

[quote name='toh' post='1020301' date='Mar 16 2010, 11:21 AM']i've read the trick someone did on internet: he started the 3d v ideoplayer on PC forcing nvidia glasses to shutter and played Avatar game on Xbox 360 without problem.[/quote]
Erm, I don't see how the player running on a PC should sync up with the XBox, that sounds like stupid sh---!

[Edit] It coud work in checkerboard mode, when he has the TV set syncing the emitter through the VESA cable - but then again, how can the XBOX provide checkerboard output? Also, reading through the specs, checkerboard is NOT supported by 3DPlay and I do know for sure that the emitter cannot be synced through VESA in any other mode than this[/EDIT]

As said I asume there will be 2 different releases a standalone, chargeable driver add-on, that will work with every compatible GeFoprce Card on any TV supporting field/frame sequential stereo as defined in the Blu-Ray 3D specs and on the other hand an addition to the 3Dvision driver, an hence free to existing users.

Concerning the limitation to 720p: They mention support for every compatible GeForce card, which includes cards that do not have a HDMI1.4 output. While HDMI1.4 offers sufficient bandwith for FullHD S3D, HDMI1.3 barely does. I could imagine this limitation becoming obsolete with new grafix cards.

On the topic that gaming on a 120Hz TFT would always be superior to a S3D TV I beg to differ. One of the loudest complaints here in this very forum is about ghosting. And this is tributed by 120Hz refresh rate. ALL TV manufacturers agreed that for superior stereoscopic experience a panel refresh rate of 240Hz is mandatory. Panel refresh - not picture refresh - mind this.

Why ? Because on 120Hz displays the glasses open time needs to be as long as possible for minimum loss of brightness, on the other side TN TFTs build up the signal in lines like CRTs, so the glasses sync somewhere mostly in the cenbter of the screen for a limited time. Increase the time you get more ghosting on top and bottom, decrease the time you will either loose "just" brightness or even S3D on top and bottom. With 240 Hz panels however you can insert black frames. This means the shutter can stay open actually longer than one frame per eye and switch over is during the black phase which pretty effectively eliminates ghosting for good. This is btw the reason why at the moment there is nothing better for S3D than a DLP which puts every 120Hz TFT to shame even at 60-72 Hz - which is again the reason for me to repeadetely ask for removal of the refresh rate limitation.

But, hey, anyway, this is a great step in the right direction, because it does away with a good deal of the hated by my arbitrary proprietarism. I asume that in near future all S3D ready displays, screens and projectors will conform to this standard and then all work with the nvidia drivers.
[quote name='toh' post='1020301' date='Mar 16 2010, 11:21 AM']1) Where and how can i prove that i am 3d vision owner? do i need to register somewhere? I want that 3dplay software!

If you are an owner you have the emitterdingledongle - same way it works now. Emitter connected = drop down box active. So I asume it will be integrated into 3Dvision drivers for existing users, which should also give an positive answer to:

[quote name='toh' post='1020301' date='Mar 16 2010, 11:21 AM']2) will my glasses work on the 3d HDTVs? any brand?



[quote name='toh' post='1020301' date='Mar 16 2010, 11:21 AM']i've read the trick someone did on internet: he started the 3d v ideoplayer on PC forcing nvidia glasses to shutter and played Avatar game on Xbox 360 without problem.

Erm, I don't see how the player running on a PC should sync up with the XBox, that sounds like stupid sh---!



[Edit] It coud work in checkerboard mode, when he has the TV set syncing the emitter through the VESA cable - but then again, how can the XBOX provide checkerboard output? Also, reading through the specs, checkerboard is NOT supported by 3DPlay and I do know for sure that the emitter cannot be synced through VESA in any other mode than this[/EDIT]



As said I asume there will be 2 different releases a standalone, chargeable driver add-on, that will work with every compatible GeFoprce Card on any TV supporting field/frame sequential stereo as defined in the Blu-Ray 3D specs and on the other hand an addition to the 3Dvision driver, an hence free to existing users.



Concerning the limitation to 720p: They mention support for every compatible GeForce card, which includes cards that do not have a HDMI1.4 output. While HDMI1.4 offers sufficient bandwith for FullHD S3D, HDMI1.3 barely does. I could imagine this limitation becoming obsolete with new grafix cards.



On the topic that gaming on a 120Hz TFT would always be superior to a S3D TV I beg to differ. One of the loudest complaints here in this very forum is about ghosting. And this is tributed by 120Hz refresh rate. ALL TV manufacturers agreed that for superior stereoscopic experience a panel refresh rate of 240Hz is mandatory. Panel refresh - not picture refresh - mind this.



Why ? Because on 120Hz displays the glasses open time needs to be as long as possible for minimum loss of brightness, on the other side TN TFTs build up the signal in lines like CRTs, so the glasses sync somewhere mostly in the cenbter of the screen for a limited time. Increase the time you get more ghosting on top and bottom, decrease the time you will either loose "just" brightness or even S3D on top and bottom. With 240 Hz panels however you can insert black frames. This means the shutter can stay open actually longer than one frame per eye and switch over is during the black phase which pretty effectively eliminates ghosting for good. This is btw the reason why at the moment there is nothing better for S3D than a DLP which puts every 120Hz TFT to shame even at 60-72 Hz - which is again the reason for me to repeadetely ask for removal of the refresh rate limitation.



But, hey, anyway, this is a great step in the right direction, because it does away with a good deal of the hated by my arbitrary proprietarism. I asume that in near future all S3D ready displays, screens and projectors will conform to this standard and then all work with the nvidia drivers.

#34
Posted 03/16/2010 11:28 AM   
[b]quadrophoeniX[/b] here is this post:
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=152080"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=152080[/url]

and are you sure nvidia glasses can work in 240 hz mode or they will be working in 120 mode and be darker than the sony's/panas/samsung's glasses?

question based on this news: [url="http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/nvidias-3dtv-play-finally-solves-the-hdmi-1-4-gap-for-3d-vision/"]http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/nvidias...-for-3d-vision/[/url]
will i absolutely need 1.4 hdmi cable or the old dual DVI will work? (which i use to connect my samsung rz 2233 to GeForce)
quadrophoeniX here is this post:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=152080



and are you sure nvidia glasses can work in 240 hz mode or they will be working in 120 mode and be darker than the sony's/panas/samsung's glasses?



question based on this news: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/nvidias...-for-3d-vision/

will i absolutely need 1.4 hdmi cable or the old dual DVI will work? (which i use to connect my samsung rz 2233 to GeForce)

#35
Posted 03/16/2010 11:49 AM   
I'm sorry but does anyone find this whole thing a little confusing ??

I'm already using my 3d t.v to play games on with 3d vision.. a t.v
they are apparently claiming won't work with 3dtv play. LOL

So basically the only difference is support for the new 1080p tv's?

Are they going to remove support for DLP/Plasma ? This is my fear.
I'm sorry but does anyone find this whole thing a little confusing ??



I'm already using my 3d t.v to play games on with 3d vision.. a t.v

they are apparently claiming won't work with 3dtv play. LOL



So basically the only difference is support for the new 1080p tv's?



Are they going to remove support for DLP/Plasma ? This is my fear.

#36
Posted 03/16/2010 02:05 PM   
going out on a limb here, but did you guys see this site?

[url="http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_TV_play.html"]http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_TV_play.html[/url]


If you notice the note on it, you'll see the words NOTE: If you are an [u]existing NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses owner or plan to purchase [/u][b][/b]a kit, 3DTV Play Software will be included for free in a future software update.

I think we've got our answer on alot of things with this statement right here....
going out on a limb here, but did you guys see this site?



http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_TV_play.html





If you notice the note on it, you'll see the words NOTE: If you are an existing NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses owner or plan to purchase [b][/b]a kit, 3DTV Play Software will be included for free in a future software update.



I think we've got our answer on alot of things with this statement right here....

#37
Posted 03/16/2010 02:17 PM   
[quote name='toh' post='1020326' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:49 PM'][b]quadrophoeniX[/b] here is this post..[/quote]
OK, that is a VERY fortunate coincidence but absolutely makes sense. I have been reporting a similar solution on MTBS using a player that can output checkerboard. The trick is that the apllication (the game Avatar in this case can output checkerboard on a generic basis without help from Xbox or PS3. I was not aware of this, please apologize my ignorance for not being interested in this game or having a Xbox. As said the emitter can be synced by the TV set Through VESA, but at the same time you could equally use the generic and/or old school glasses hooked up to the VESA port, nevermind. But as stressed, checkerboard will not be an option with 3Dplay, so this will be a no go, you would need to run the game on the computer.



[quote name='toh' post='1020326' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:49 PM']are you sure nvidia glasses can work in 240 hz mode or they will be working in 120 mode and be darker than the sony's/panas/samsung's glasses?[/quote]
not sure what's the upper frequency limitation on the 3Dvision, it doesn't matter anyway. At the moment the shutters on The 120Hz panels have an open time of roughly 3mS, on 50% duty cycle that would respond to 166Hz which should suffice. Maybe I was a little unclear about this: The ghosting emanates from the panel, you could see the 240Hz with black frame insertion as 120Hz with blank start and stop times, which would help that each eye [i]can only see the frame it is intended to[/i]. The ghosting will move into the blanking time.

[quote name='toh' post='1020326' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:49 PM']will i absolutely need 1.4 hdmi cable or the old dual DVI will work? (which i use to connect my samsung rz 2233 to GeForce)[/quote]
The displays affected by the 3DPlay software will all have HDMI inputs. Allthough there are DVI to HDMI Adaptors they to my knowledge do all just carry single link DVI - so my 2cents were "no" - for S3D TVs, on the Samsung nothing's gonna change for you anyway. Also, please note that there is no difference between a (good qualiti) HDMI 1.3 cable and a HDMI1.4 one. The interface is the very same, it is the protocol and bandwith that have received a bump.

[Edit] I just read that the ports on the cards will be upgradeble to 1.4 - similar to the HDMI on the PS3, which is possible as long as the transmitters are programmable and can push bytes fast enough - this is good news. Still single link DVI adaptors cannot reach the bandwith of a generic HDMI1.4 port which may be another cause to the limit of 720p/120Hz. [/Edit]

@ dreamingwake and Static:
it is not confusing at all. They just (finally) did the overdue step to add greater cross compatibility with that, rather than cutting down features. As stated 3Dvision is not being abandoned or cut down by features like generic CRT (a.k.a. DLP) support. Since it is still the way to go gaming on a computer. It is a quite save bet that there will be an additional mode as in "3DPlay mode" or "HDMI1.4 mode" so 4 to pick from not just 3. Thus it logically will be free for every existing and future 3Dvision owner while chargeable software (like the purevision in older days) with serial / code protection for those who own a S3D set with proprietary or generic glasses. Easy as that.
[quote name='toh' post='1020326' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:49 PM']quadrophoeniX here is this post..

OK, that is a VERY fortunate coincidence but absolutely makes sense. I have been reporting a similar solution on MTBS using a player that can output checkerboard. The trick is that the apllication (the game Avatar in this case can output checkerboard on a generic basis without help from Xbox or PS3. I was not aware of this, please apologize my ignorance for not being interested in this game or having a Xbox. As said the emitter can be synced by the TV set Through VESA, but at the same time you could equally use the generic and/or old school glasses hooked up to the VESA port, nevermind. But as stressed, checkerboard will not be an option with 3Dplay, so this will be a no go, you would need to run the game on the computer.







[quote name='toh' post='1020326' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:49 PM']are you sure nvidia glasses can work in 240 hz mode or they will be working in 120 mode and be darker than the sony's/panas/samsung's glasses?

not sure what's the upper frequency limitation on the 3Dvision, it doesn't matter anyway. At the moment the shutters on The 120Hz panels have an open time of roughly 3mS, on 50% duty cycle that would respond to 166Hz which should suffice. Maybe I was a little unclear about this: The ghosting emanates from the panel, you could see the 240Hz with black frame insertion as 120Hz with blank start and stop times, which would help that each eye can only see the frame it is intended to. The ghosting will move into the blanking time.



[quote name='toh' post='1020326' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:49 PM']will i absolutely need 1.4 hdmi cable or the old dual DVI will work? (which i use to connect my samsung rz 2233 to GeForce)

The displays affected by the 3DPlay software will all have HDMI inputs. Allthough there are DVI to HDMI Adaptors they to my knowledge do all just carry single link DVI - so my 2cents were "no" - for S3D TVs, on the Samsung nothing's gonna change for you anyway. Also, please note that there is no difference between a (good qualiti) HDMI 1.3 cable and a HDMI1.4 one. The interface is the very same, it is the protocol and bandwith that have received a bump.



[Edit] I just read that the ports on the cards will be upgradeble to 1.4 - similar to the HDMI on the PS3, which is possible as long as the transmitters are programmable and can push bytes fast enough - this is good news. Still single link DVI adaptors cannot reach the bandwith of a generic HDMI1.4 port which may be another cause to the limit of 720p/120Hz. [/Edit]



@ dreamingwake and Static:

it is not confusing at all. They just (finally) did the overdue step to add greater cross compatibility with that, rather than cutting down features. As stated 3Dvision is not being abandoned or cut down by features like generic CRT (a.k.a. DLP) support. Since it is still the way to go gaming on a computer. It is a quite save bet that there will be an additional mode as in "3DPlay mode" or "HDMI1.4 mode" so 4 to pick from not just 3. Thus it logically will be free for every existing and future 3Dvision owner while chargeable software (like the purevision in older days) with serial / code protection for those who own a S3D set with proprietary or generic glasses. Easy as that.

#38
Posted 03/16/2010 03:04 PM   
[quote name='Chopper' post='1020153' date='Mar 15 2010, 10:12 PM']Hi Guys!

I have an official update on this at mtbs3D.com. Specs, compatibility, etc.

[url="http://mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/rss.cgi?news_id=427"]http://mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/rss.cgi?news_id=427[/url]

Regards,
Chopper[/quote]


Ouch

I really hope that that's just a limit of the "3DTV" software, specifically...

and that normal 3D vision supports outputting 1080p @ 60hz (x2, @120hz strobe) and the new plasmas support that input... even if it's not in the 1.4 spec.

Otherwise... who in their right mind would take a display that does 1080p input @ 24hz (x2, @120hz strobe)

That would make gaming unplayable... 24hz (per eye) is abysmally slow.

Flashing it faster (multiple strobes per eye per frame), won't make up for the lack of new content per frame.

-scheherazade
[quote name='Chopper' post='1020153' date='Mar 15 2010, 10:12 PM']Hi Guys!



I have an official update on this at mtbs3D.com. Specs, compatibility, etc.



http://mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/rss.cgi?news_id=427



Regards,

Chopper





Ouch



I really hope that that's just a limit of the "3DTV" software, specifically...



and that normal 3D vision supports outputting 1080p @ 60hz (x2, @120hz strobe) and the new plasmas support that input... even if it's not in the 1.4 spec.



Otherwise... who in their right mind would take a display that does 1080p input @ 24hz (x2, @120hz strobe)



That would make gaming unplayable... 24hz (per eye) is abysmally slow.



Flashing it faster (multiple strobes per eye per frame), won't make up for the lack of new content per frame.



-scheherazade

#39
Posted 03/16/2010 04:00 PM   
"NVIDIA 3DTV Play only supports the following mandatory HDMI 1.4a 3D formats:

o Frame Packing

- 1080p @ 23.98/24Hz
- 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz

o Side-by-Side Horizontal

- 1080i @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz

o Top-and-Bottom

- 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
- 1080p @ 23.97/24Hz "

here are the specs... is it just me or does it seem like these specs are less than what we have now with 3d vision running 1080p 120hz checkerboard?
"NVIDIA 3DTV Play only supports the following mandatory HDMI 1.4a 3D formats:



o Frame Packing



- 1080p @ 23.98/24Hz

- 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz



o Side-by-Side Horizontal



- 1080i @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz



o Top-and-Bottom



- 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz

- 1080p @ 23.97/24Hz "



here are the specs... is it just me or does it seem like these specs are less than what we have now with 3d vision running 1080p 120hz checkerboard?

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#40
Posted 03/16/2010 05:58 PM   
[quote name='conan48' post='1020015' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:33 AM']thats the most retarded thing I've heard in a long time. The 1st batch of 3Dtvs won't support 1080p 60hz inputs. Why and where do people get this FUD from? You do realize that not all blurays are encoded at 24hz. Many docs for example are encoded at 60hz. Also, when Direct TV launches there 3D channel it will be at 60hz (don't know if it will be 1080p, but it probobly will as they are going for more and more 1080p content) Also why wouldn't they do 60hz when 120hz is sending 60hz to each eye. Also there are games right now on the PS3 that are 1080p and of course all PC games support 1080p.

There is no way that the new 3D tvs won't support full 1080p to each eye for a 60hz signal.[/quote]
Unfortunately this isn't FUD, it is what's happening right now.
James Cameron himself complained last month about the BluRay3D specs not allowing anything higher than stereo 1080p24 because he wants to make his next movie at 48 frames per second.
The hdmi 1.4 specs just follow what the BluRay disc association, Broadcast companies and Sony (Playstation3) require.
HDMI 1.4 specifies many different image transmission formats (frame alternate, line alternate, side by side, etc...) at many different resolutions, including stereo1080p60. But few of them are mandatory.

The only mandatory formats in hdmi1.4 are exactly what nvidia 3DTV play claims to support : stereo 1080p24 for BluRay movies and stereo 720p50/60 for video games.
Hdmi 1.4a update added single 1080i50/60 (one 1080p frame shared between the two eyes) side by side and top/bottom format similar to frame packing for TV broadcasts. The nvidia press release does not mention these formats.
Full resolution stereo 1080p50/60 is only an optional format and i have seen absolutely no information that confirms it's being supported by any 3DTV, and all the press releases about these 3DTVs are full of hints telling stereo 1080p will only work for 3D BluRays.
[quote name='conan48' post='1020015' date='Mar 16 2010, 12:33 AM']thats the most retarded thing I've heard in a long time. The 1st batch of 3Dtvs won't support 1080p 60hz inputs. Why and where do people get this FUD from? You do realize that not all blurays are encoded at 24hz. Many docs for example are encoded at 60hz. Also, when Direct TV launches there 3D channel it will be at 60hz (don't know if it will be 1080p, but it probobly will as they are going for more and more 1080p content) Also why wouldn't they do 60hz when 120hz is sending 60hz to each eye. Also there are games right now on the PS3 that are 1080p and of course all PC games support 1080p.



There is no way that the new 3D tvs won't support full 1080p to each eye for a 60hz signal.

Unfortunately this isn't FUD, it is what's happening right now.

James Cameron himself complained last month about the BluRay3D specs not allowing anything higher than stereo 1080p24 because he wants to make his next movie at 48 frames per second.

The hdmi 1.4 specs just follow what the BluRay disc association, Broadcast companies and Sony (Playstation3) require.

HDMI 1.4 specifies many different image transmission formats (frame alternate, line alternate, side by side, etc...) at many different resolutions, including stereo1080p60. But few of them are mandatory.



The only mandatory formats in hdmi1.4 are exactly what nvidia 3DTV play claims to support : stereo 1080p24 for BluRay movies and stereo 720p50/60 for video games.

Hdmi 1.4a update added single 1080i50/60 (one 1080p frame shared between the two eyes) side by side and top/bottom format similar to frame packing for TV broadcasts. The nvidia press release does not mention these formats.

Full resolution stereo 1080p50/60 is only an optional format and i have seen absolutely no information that confirms it's being supported by any 3DTV, and all the press releases about these 3DTVs are full of hints telling stereo 1080p will only work for 3D BluRays.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#41
Posted 03/16/2010 06:02 PM   
gaming at 720 sucks on a big screen- hopefully they come up with something for the pc gamers. i cant go back from 1080p on a DLP in stereo. Maybe i missed something- but it seems like the new HDMI specs are less than the existing non standard DLP hardware running on a PC. I sure hope we dont lose our 3d DLP support- once these new 1.4aHDMI sets come out.
gaming at 720 sucks on a big screen- hopefully they come up with something for the pc gamers. i cant go back from 1080p on a DLP in stereo. Maybe i missed something- but it seems like the new HDMI specs are less than the existing non standard DLP hardware running on a PC. I sure hope we dont lose our 3d DLP support- once these new 1.4aHDMI sets come out.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#42
Posted 03/16/2010 07:31 PM   
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1020521' date='Mar 16 2010, 01:02 PM']Unfortunately this isn't FUD, it is what's happening right now.
James Cameron himself complained last month about the BluRay3D specs not allowing anything higher than stereo 1080p24 because he wants to make his next movie at 48 frames per second.
The hdmi 1.4 specs just follow what the BluRay disc association, Broadcast companies and Sony (Playstation3) require.
HDMI 1.4 specifies many different image transmission formats (frame alternate, line alternate, side by side, etc...) at many different resolutions, including stereo1080p60. But few of them are mandatory.

The only mandatory formats in hdmi1.4 are exactly what nvidia 3DTV play claims to support : stereo 1080p24 for BluRay movies and stereo 720p50/60 for video games.
Hdmi 1.4a update added single 1080i50/60 (one 1080p frame shared between the two eyes) side by side and top/bottom format similar to frame packing for TV broadcasts. The nvidia press release does not mention these formats.
Full resolution stereo 1080p50/60 is only an optional format and i have seen absolutely no information that confirms it's being supported by any 3DTV, and all the press releases about these 3DTVs are full of hints telling stereo 1080p will only work for 3D BluRays.[/quote]

The framerates we're talking about aren't too extreme.

We've yet to see any verification on what the vt20/vt25 tv can really do.

-scheherazade
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1020521' date='Mar 16 2010, 01:02 PM']Unfortunately this isn't FUD, it is what's happening right now.

James Cameron himself complained last month about the BluRay3D specs not allowing anything higher than stereo 1080p24 because he wants to make his next movie at 48 frames per second.

The hdmi 1.4 specs just follow what the BluRay disc association, Broadcast companies and Sony (Playstation3) require.

HDMI 1.4 specifies many different image transmission formats (frame alternate, line alternate, side by side, etc...) at many different resolutions, including stereo1080p60. But few of them are mandatory.



The only mandatory formats in hdmi1.4 are exactly what nvidia 3DTV play claims to support : stereo 1080p24 for BluRay movies and stereo 720p50/60 for video games.

Hdmi 1.4a update added single 1080i50/60 (one 1080p frame shared between the two eyes) side by side and top/bottom format similar to frame packing for TV broadcasts. The nvidia press release does not mention these formats.

Full resolution stereo 1080p50/60 is only an optional format and i have seen absolutely no information that confirms it's being supported by any 3DTV, and all the press releases about these 3DTVs are full of hints telling stereo 1080p will only work for 3D BluRays.



The framerates we're talking about aren't too extreme.



We've yet to see any verification on what the vt20/vt25 tv can really do.



-scheherazade

#43
Posted 03/16/2010 08:02 PM   
[quote name='scheherazade' post='1020607' date='Mar 16 2010, 04:02 PM']The framerates we're talking about aren't too extreme.

We've yet to see any verification on what the vt20/vt25 tv can really do.

-scheherazade[/quote]



Clearly the Nvidia GPUs can easily generate 1080p@120hz.
Clearly the HDMI1.4 spec includes 1080p,120hz format, although it is not mandatory format for the spec.

The question is are any of the large format displays (TVs) that have HDMI1.4 input capable of processing and displaying 1080p/120hz (3d).

Clearly these displays have the pixels and clearly the pixels can be refreshed at 120hz but the problem with these sets has been (and hopefully does not continue to be) the ability to process the high bandwidth input.
Hopefully some sammy or sony set in the near future will do it. But recall they have been selling "120hz" sets for years that could not process even a 720p 120hz signal that is well within the bandwidth spec of HDMI 1.3


baragon


baragon
[quote name='scheherazade' post='1020607' date='Mar 16 2010, 04:02 PM']The framerates we're talking about aren't too extreme.



We've yet to see any verification on what the vt20/vt25 tv can really do.



-scheherazade







Clearly the Nvidia GPUs can easily generate 1080p@120hz.

Clearly the HDMI1.4 spec includes 1080p,120hz format, although it is not mandatory format for the spec.



The question is are any of the large format displays (TVs) that have HDMI1.4 input capable of processing and displaying 1080p/120hz (3d).



Clearly these displays have the pixels and clearly the pixels can be refreshed at 120hz but the problem with these sets has been (and hopefully does not continue to be) the ability to process the high bandwidth input.

Hopefully some sammy or sony set in the near future will do it. But recall they have been selling "120hz" sets for years that could not process even a 720p 120hz signal that is well within the bandwidth spec of HDMI 1.3





baragon





baragon

#44
Posted 03/16/2010 09:52 PM   
[quote name='baragon' post='1020676' date='Mar 16 2010, 04:52 PM']Clearly the Nvidia GPUs can easily generate 1080p@120hz.
Clearly the HDMI1.4 spec includes 1080p,120hz format, although it is not mandatory format for the spec.

The question is are any of the large format displays (TVs) that have HDMI1.4 input capable of processing and displaying 1080p/120hz (3d).

Clearly these displays have the pixels and clearly the pixels can be refreshed at 120hz but the problem with these sets has been (and hopefully does not continue to be) the ability to process the high bandwidth input.
Hopefully some sammy or sony set in the near future will do it. But recall they have been selling "120hz" sets for years that could not process even a 720p 120hz signal that is well within the bandwidth spec of HDMI 1.3


baragon


baragon[/quote]

If 'dumb' lcd monitors can handle it... it pains me to see multi-thousand-dollar displays that skimp out on something so basic - and so necessary...

-scheherazade
[quote name='baragon' post='1020676' date='Mar 16 2010, 04:52 PM']Clearly the Nvidia GPUs can easily generate 1080p@120hz.

Clearly the HDMI1.4 spec includes 1080p,120hz format, although it is not mandatory format for the spec.



The question is are any of the large format displays (TVs) that have HDMI1.4 input capable of processing and displaying 1080p/120hz (3d).



Clearly these displays have the pixels and clearly the pixels can be refreshed at 120hz but the problem with these sets has been (and hopefully does not continue to be) the ability to process the high bandwidth input.

Hopefully some sammy or sony set in the near future will do it. But recall they have been selling "120hz" sets for years that could not process even a 720p 120hz signal that is well within the bandwidth spec of HDMI 1.3





baragon





baragon



If 'dumb' lcd monitors can handle it... it pains me to see multi-thousand-dollar displays that skimp out on something so basic - and so necessary...



-scheherazade

#45
Posted 03/16/2010 10:04 PM   
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