So basically 3d with nvidia glasses works fine, its just a crosstalk issue? Hmm I would guess that probably its just a timing issue then. Nvidia glasses switch at wrong moment, allowing for a short time view from incorrect eye to be visible. Maybe there is some setting in nvidia drivers / edid or somewhere else where you would be able to control that timing. Some aftermarket glasses had that functionality, though not sure if any of them work with nvidia emitter.
So basically 3d with nvidia glasses works fine, its just a crosstalk issue? Hmm I would guess that probably its just a timing issue then. Nvidia glasses switch at wrong moment, allowing for a short time view from incorrect eye to be visible. Maybe there is some setting in nvidia drivers / edid or somewhere else where you would be able to control that timing. Some aftermarket glasses had that functionality, though not sure if any of them work with nvidia emitter.
[quote="Pauldusler"]
Sorry to hear that. What exactly happens when you feed the projector with a 1920x1080 @120hz signal and try to enable frame sequential 3D mode in projector OSD? Is frame sequential mode simply locked in OSD or does it not work properly?
Indeed that's frustrating as hell. For me this sounds like that BenQ simply copied the firmware from older 720p/1080p projectors and inherited the same 720p limitation from those models. Either way it's very disappointing as 4k projectors generally cost a lot of money and therefore you would expect to get the best what is possible for the money. But BenQ really doesn't care for 3D: you could clearly see this when they shipped the BenQ W1700 / HT2550 with a firmware bug which resulted in an eye swap for 3D mode every few seconds. That means they didn't even test 3D mode before shipping.
My suggestion for you is still the UHD 40/50. Brightness of its lamp is lower but you're still able to improve brightness by using a high gain screen and for 3D bluray playback just use PowerDVD and an internal bluray drive for PC.[/quote]
With the TK800, you have to put it into 3d mode, then you choose either automatic or manual formats, including frame sequential.
Basically, with 3d mode turned on, the projector won't accept a 1920x1080x120Hz signal.
Frame sequential mode is only available to be chosen if 3d mode is on.
So I think when you turn 3d mode on, the projector disables the 4k shift AND locks down the accepted range of input resolutions.
Honestly I'm still torn on what to do, but I think I'm still going to keep the TK800. At the end of the day, I have my 3d vision surround setup + I have my 3d OLED, so it will just be a case of choosing how I want to play depending on the game and my mood! :-)
I spent about 5 hours testing this projector last night.. It took so long because of the number of testing parameters (win 7/10/drivers/edid/3d mode/silent mode/HDMI cables etc) and the slow speed of the BenQ in switching inputs and changing menu options.
One significant find, is that I am able to verify that my Denon X4300h AVR will definitely accept and pass through a 1920x1080x120Hz signal. I verified this on the blurbusters UFO test.
Sorry to hear that. What exactly happens when you feed the projector with a 1920x1080 @120hz signal and try to enable frame sequential 3D mode in projector OSD? Is frame sequential mode simply locked in OSD or does it not work properly?
Indeed that's frustrating as hell. For me this sounds like that BenQ simply copied the firmware from older 720p/1080p projectors and inherited the same 720p limitation from those models. Either way it's very disappointing as 4k projectors generally cost a lot of money and therefore you would expect to get the best what is possible for the money. But BenQ really doesn't care for 3D: you could clearly see this when they shipped the BenQ W1700 / HT2550 with a firmware bug which resulted in an eye swap for 3D mode every few seconds. That means they didn't even test 3D mode before shipping.
My suggestion for you is still the UHD 40/50. Brightness of its lamp is lower but you're still able to improve brightness by using a high gain screen and for 3D bluray playback just use PowerDVD and an internal bluray drive for PC.
With the TK800, you have to put it into 3d mode, then you choose either automatic or manual formats, including frame sequential.
Basically, with 3d mode turned on, the projector won't accept a 1920x1080x120Hz signal.
Frame sequential mode is only available to be chosen if 3d mode is on.
So I think when you turn 3d mode on, the projector disables the 4k shift AND locks down the accepted range of input resolutions.
Honestly I'm still torn on what to do, but I think I'm still going to keep the TK800. At the end of the day, I have my 3d vision surround setup + I have my 3d OLED, so it will just be a case of choosing how I want to play depending on the game and my mood! :-)
I spent about 5 hours testing this projector last night.. It took so long because of the number of testing parameters (win 7/10/drivers/edid/3d mode/silent mode/HDMI cables etc) and the slow speed of the BenQ in switching inputs and changing menu options.
One significant find, is that I am able to verify that my Denon X4300h AVR will definitely accept and pass through a 1920x1080x120Hz signal. I verified this on the blurbusters UFO test.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
[quote="vital7777"]So basically 3d with nvidia glasses works fine, its just a crosstalk issue? Hmm I would guess that probably its just a timing issue then. Nvidia glasses switch at wrong moment, allowing for a short time view from incorrect eye to be visible. Maybe there is some setting in nvidia drivers / edid or somewhere else where you would be able to control that timing. Some aftermarket glasses had that functionality, though not sure if any of them work with nvidia emitter.[/quote]
Yes, I agree, although from my conversations on blurbusters it's exacerbated by the lack of black frame insertion.
There are in fact timing offsets in the registry but I'm not sure that they do anything, it's possible they are legcy keys for older drivers. There is also a timings ini file in the Nvidia drivers that has different configurations for different displays. I think it's encrypted though not sure and I haven't found any examples of anyone successfully modifying either the registry key or the ini file.
https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=15135#p75842
http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=557
I have some XpanD X104 glasses. These do support the Nvidia Ir protocol and do have adjustable timing ;-)
I will try them at some point but I'm still not hopeful and I've had enough of testing for now.
vital7777 said:So basically 3d with nvidia glasses works fine, its just a crosstalk issue? Hmm I would guess that probably its just a timing issue then. Nvidia glasses switch at wrong moment, allowing for a short time view from incorrect eye to be visible. Maybe there is some setting in nvidia drivers / edid or somewhere else where you would be able to control that timing. Some aftermarket glasses had that functionality, though not sure if any of them work with nvidia emitter.
Yes, I agree, although from my conversations on blurbusters it's exacerbated by the lack of black frame insertion.
There are in fact timing offsets in the registry but I'm not sure that they do anything, it's possible they are legcy keys for older drivers. There is also a timings ini file in the Nvidia drivers that has different configurations for different displays. I think it's encrypted though not sure and I haven't found any examples of anyone successfully modifying either the registry key or the ini file.
I have some XpanD X104 glasses. These do support the Nvidia Ir protocol and do have adjustable timing ;-)
I will try them at some point but I'm still not hopeful and I've had enough of testing for now.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
@rustyk21: Btw out of curiosity: how is ghosting on your OLED monitor vs your 3D monitors?
If keeping the projector I guess you rather want to use it for movies? For 4K HDR movies and the extra lamp power + combined on a high contrast screen the projector can very likely show its full potential. But only keeping it for 3D gaming / 3d movies I would say it's not worth it. There are very cheap Full HD projectors out there (especially now on cyber monday) where you can get the same 3D results.
@rustyk21: Btw out of curiosity: how is ghosting on your OLED monitor vs your 3D monitors?
If keeping the projector I guess you rather want to use it for movies? For 4K HDR movies and the extra lamp power + combined on a high contrast screen the projector can very likely show its full potential. But only keeping it for 3D gaming / 3d movies I would say it's not worth it. There are very cheap Full HD projectors out there (especially now on cyber monday) where you can get the same 3D results.
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[quote="rustyk21"]I have some XpanD X104 glasses. These do support the Nvidia Ir protocol and do have adjustable timing ;-)
I will try them at some point but I'm still not hopeful and I've had enough of testing for now.[/quote]
Definetely do try those - it should be very easy to notice if crosstalk gets better/worse. Also you may try to remove receiver out of equation, maybe without it timing would be better?
rustyk21 said:I have some XpanD X104 glasses. These do support the Nvidia Ir protocol and do have adjustable timing ;-)
I will try them at some point but I'm still not hopeful and I've had enough of testing for now.
Definetely do try those - it should be very easy to notice if crosstalk gets better/worse. Also you may try to remove receiver out of equation, maybe without it timing would be better?
[quote="Pauldusler"]@rustyk21: Btw out of curiosity: how is ghosting on your OLED monitor vs your 3D monitors?
If keeping the projector I guess you rather want to use it for movies? For 4K HDR movies and the extra lamp power + combined on a high contrast screen the projector can very likely show its full potential. But only keeping it for 3D gaming / 3d movies I would say it's not worth it. There are very cheap Full HD projectors out there (especially now on cyber monday) where you can get the same 3D results.[/quote]
That's a good question and to be honest it's hard to answer. I've not compared the 3d for a while, but I would say that the OLED is as good as the 3d monitors for crosstalk if not better.
The fact that it's 55", has no flicker, better colours, no pixel inversion artifacts and can accept interlaced 4k 3d makes it a superior display overall.
Regarding the projector, yes it's a bit of a conundrum, but then I ask myself when was the last time I gamed in 3d on the projector anyway? So yes, the projector will be used more for 'big TV' and movies etc.
For 3d, the monitors have superior input lag and are bright.
The OLED can do everything well, but lag is slightly high. The C6 that was released the year after mine has much better input lag. If I want bigger field of view, I can just sit on the floor on a gaming chair if I want to use the OLED.
I'll probably end up keeping the TK800 for a year or two then upgrade again. If I didn't have the option of the OLED, I'd probably go for the UHD40.
Pauldusler said:@rustyk21: Btw out of curiosity: how is ghosting on your OLED monitor vs your 3D monitors?
If keeping the projector I guess you rather want to use it for movies? For 4K HDR movies and the extra lamp power + combined on a high contrast screen the projector can very likely show its full potential. But only keeping it for 3D gaming / 3d movies I would say it's not worth it. There are very cheap Full HD projectors out there (especially now on cyber monday) where you can get the same 3D results.
That's a good question and to be honest it's hard to answer. I've not compared the 3d for a while, but I would say that the OLED is as good as the 3d monitors for crosstalk if not better.
The fact that it's 55", has no flicker, better colours, no pixel inversion artifacts and can accept interlaced 4k 3d makes it a superior display overall.
Regarding the projector, yes it's a bit of a conundrum, but then I ask myself when was the last time I gamed in 3d on the projector anyway? So yes, the projector will be used more for 'big TV' and movies etc.
For 3d, the monitors have superior input lag and are bright.
The OLED can do everything well, but lag is slightly high. The C6 that was released the year after mine has much better input lag. If I want bigger field of view, I can just sit on the floor on a gaming chair if I want to use the OLED.
I'll probably end up keeping the TK800 for a year or two then upgrade again. If I didn't have the option of the OLED, I'd probably go for the UHD40.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
Hi there!
Bought an Optoma UHD3000A. Someone here who knows how to force it in 3D mode? The key is greyed and i cannot switch to 3d mode via the remote. Did i configure something wrong?
Had hoped to get similar results as with the uhd40, that is described here, but would also be happy with 1920x1080 in SBS Mode.
Sorry for my bad english...
Bought an Optoma UHD3000A. Someone here who knows how to force it in 3D mode? The key is greyed and i cannot switch to 3d mode via the remote. Did i configure something wrong?
Had hoped to get similar results as with the uhd40, that is described here, but would also be happy with 1920x1080 in SBS Mode.
[quote="conducto"]Hi there!
Bought an Optoma UHD3000A. Someone here who knows how to force it in 3D mode? The key is greyed and i cannot switch to 3d mode via the remote. Did i configure something wrong?
Had hoped to get similar results as with the uhd40, that is described here, but would also be happy with 1920x1080 in SBS Mode.
Sorry for my bad english...[/quote]
Not sure but it seems this projector has the same limitations as UHD 51A (no frame sequential mode support). 3D movies from bluray players should work out of the box. For PC games you typically need Nvidia 3DTV Play (I think it costs 20-30 dollars or so). When you have a 3D Vision kit and the IR emitter connected to the PC 3DTV Play is automatically unlocked without any further costs.
Bought an Optoma UHD3000A. Someone here who knows how to force it in 3D mode? The key is greyed and i cannot switch to 3d mode via the remote. Did i configure something wrong?
Had hoped to get similar results as with the uhd40, that is described here, but would also be happy with 1920x1080 in SBS Mode.
Sorry for my bad english...
Not sure but it seems this projector has the same limitations as UHD 51A (no frame sequential mode support). 3D movies from bluray players should work out of the box. For PC games you typically need Nvidia 3DTV Play (I think it costs 20-30 dollars or so). When you have a 3D Vision kit and the IR emitter connected to the PC 3DTV Play is automatically unlocked without any further costs.
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de
[u][b]1.[/b][/u] My humble understanding is that a lot of these non-"sequential 3D" supporting projectors actually support it, but due to a lack of DLP flashing for DLP-link, they don't "work" in the sense that the other glasses option: 3D vision glasses are not in phase with the frames (hence no 3D effect).
I have in the past built a phase shift circuit which we can all integrate into our 3DV emitters to compensate for the phase shift, if someone can confirm that this indeed is the only problem.
When he has the time, I think rustyk21 would be able to confirm either way with his "XpanD X104 glasses with adjustable timing" :)
Alternatively, if some owner is near Cambridge UK, I can come around to your place or you can come around to mine, and we can do some extensive testing with CRU, inf hacks, custom resolutions etc, to get to the bottom of this - I would provide them with a free ghost removing circuit after using the test data to build one, for their trouble (and provide instructions here).
My feeling and past experience is that if it's not skipping frames and is passing the blurbusters 120Hz tests, there is absolutely no reason for it to NOT support frame sequential 3D - it just needs a little help getting there with a phase shift circuit. [u]We Are So Close![/u]
[b][u]2.[/u][/b] In relation to frame sequential 1080p@120Hz: Since the 3D projectors such as the UHD51 also provide 3D @ 4K via various methods (please correct me if I'm wrong about 3D @ 4K SBS/OU etc), I think our golden aim ought to be to get one of these working with frame sequential (not frame packed) 3DV, 1080p @ 120Hz. I'm leaning more towards one of Optoma's solutions due to their "ultra sharp" sharpening filter I'm personally interested in.
[b][u]3.[/u][/b] Towards Optoma's end: I have observed that a lot of Optoma's non-RGBRGB wheels do NOT have a white colour segment - they are 5 segmant wheels with RGBCY e.g. UHD60. From various reviews, they are much brighter (of course), but their colour renditioning is actually damn good - I would say that I rather prefer it over RGBRGB, and they are brighter which is more important for 3D (without cheating brightness measurements by having a white segment).
The RGBCY (UHD60, brighter) is on the bottom, the identical RGBRGB (UHD65, dimmer, but so called better colour) on the top...
[img]https://www.projectorreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/UHD65_vs_UHD60_Hitchhikers_party-1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.projectorreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/UHD65_vs_UHD60_ghostbusters_women_roof-1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.projectorreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/UHD65_vs_UHD60_bond_bond_night-1.jpg[/img]
[url]https://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/optoma-uhd60-review-and-comparison-to-uhd65-picture-quality-2/[/url]
Summing up, I personally think that a bright, native 3D supporting Optoma, with a 5 segment RGBCY wheel (and my personal favourite - "ultra sharp" feature) would be a brilliant product to aim to get working at 1080p @ 120Hz - if we physically need to remove the ghosting, then damn it, so be it... :)
1. My humble understanding is that a lot of these non-"sequential 3D" supporting projectors actually support it, but due to a lack of DLP flashing for DLP-link, they don't "work" in the sense that the other glasses option: 3D vision glasses are not in phase with the frames (hence no 3D effect).
I have in the past built a phase shift circuit which we can all integrate into our 3DV emitters to compensate for the phase shift, if someone can confirm that this indeed is the only problem.
When he has the time, I think rustyk21 would be able to confirm either way with his "XpanD X104 glasses with adjustable timing" :)
Alternatively, if some owner is near Cambridge UK, I can come around to your place or you can come around to mine, and we can do some extensive testing with CRU, inf hacks, custom resolutions etc, to get to the bottom of this - I would provide them with a free ghost removing circuit after using the test data to build one, for their trouble (and provide instructions here).
My feeling and past experience is that if it's not skipping frames and is passing the blurbusters 120Hz tests, there is absolutely no reason for it to NOT support frame sequential 3D - it just needs a little help getting there with a phase shift circuit. We Are So Close!
2. In relation to frame sequential 1080p@120Hz: Since the 3D projectors such as the UHD51 also provide 3D @ 4K via various methods (please correct me if I'm wrong about 3D @ 4K SBS/OU etc), I think our golden aim ought to be to get one of these working with frame sequential (not frame packed) 3DV, 1080p @ 120Hz. I'm leaning more towards one of Optoma's solutions due to their "ultra sharp" sharpening filter I'm personally interested in.
3. Towards Optoma's end: I have observed that a lot of Optoma's non-RGBRGB wheels do NOT have a white colour segment - they are 5 segmant wheels with RGBCY e.g. UHD60. From various reviews, they are much brighter (of course), but their colour renditioning is actually damn good - I would say that I rather prefer it over RGBRGB, and they are brighter which is more important for 3D (without cheating brightness measurements by having a white segment).
The RGBCY (UHD60, brighter) is on the bottom, the identical RGBRGB (UHD65, dimmer, but so called better colour) on the top...
Summing up, I personally think that a bright, native 3D supporting Optoma, with a 5 segment RGBCY wheel (and my personal favourite - "ultra sharp" feature) would be a brilliant product to aim to get working at 1080p @ 120Hz - if we physically need to remove the ghosting, then damn it, so be it... :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Rage what im in believe is that rgbrgb wheel always gives lesser RBE effect. Though if RBE is a problem maby one should not be looking At 1-chip dlp projectors At all.
Isnt there any 3-chip machine that produces low crosstalk 3d , or is the Price toi high for average user ?
Rage what im in believe is that rgbrgb wheel always gives lesser RBE effect. Though if RBE is a problem maby one should not be looking At 1-chip dlp projectors At all.
Isnt there any 3-chip machine that produces low crosstalk 3d , or is the Price toi high for average user ?
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I don't know mate. For me personally, my first projector was a 1999 60Hz DLP with single revolution wheel. The RBE on that was quite noticeable, but it never bothered me too much personally. Modern wheels spin at many times the refresh rate so it's even less nowadays, especially at 120Hz.
I know you hate RBE, and of course I appreciate that. I don't know of any multi-chip affordable projectors.
============
BTW, Do Optoma's 3D projectors work in SBS/TB @ 4K? Their specs only show 1080p 60Hz :/
Optoma's UHD370X is 3500 lumen, though I can't find any information on the colour wheel, nor does it seem to support "UltraDetail"
I don't know mate. For me personally, my first projector was a 1999 60Hz DLP with single revolution wheel. The RBE on that was quite noticeable, but it never bothered me too much personally. Modern wheels spin at many times the refresh rate so it's even less nowadays, especially at 120Hz.
I know you hate RBE, and of course I appreciate that. I don't know of any multi-chip affordable projectors.
============
BTW, Do Optoma's 3D projectors work in SBS/TB @ 4K? Their specs only show 1080p 60Hz :/
Optoma's UHD370X is 3500 lumen, though I can't find any information on the colour wheel, nor does it seem to support "UltraDetail"
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
[quote="RAGEdemon"][u][b]1.[/b][/u] My humble understanding is that a lot of these non-"sequential 3D" supporting projectors actually support it, but due to a lack of DLP flashing for DLP-link, they don't "work" in the sense that the other glasses option: 3D vision glasses are not in phase with the frames (hence no 3D effect).
[/quote]
I used to think this, but unfortunately it's not that simple. Timing is a big part of the issue, but even DLPs use black frame insertion so to get best 3d you need it to be supported as a 3d mode.
If you didn't alrady see if, have a read through this : https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4605
So I think you could still get it working on an unsupported display by tweaking timing, but it probably won't be optimal. Whether it's 'good enough' is another question!
I will try the Xpand's at some point, won't be for another week though.
RAGEdemon said:1. My humble understanding is that a lot of these non-"sequential 3D" supporting projectors actually support it, but due to a lack of DLP flashing for DLP-link, they don't "work" in the sense that the other glasses option: 3D vision glasses are not in phase with the frames (hence no 3D effect).
I used to think this, but unfortunately it's not that simple. Timing is a big part of the issue, but even DLPs use black frame insertion so to get best 3d you need it to be supported as a 3d mode.
So I think you could still get it working on an unsupported display by tweaking timing, but it probably won't be optimal. Whether it's 'good enough' is another question!
I will try the Xpand's at some point, won't be for another week though.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
Hello Russell old friend.
As always, your input it much appreciated! From the results of help, I'll of course send out a ghosting circuit to you if we can indeed make one - if you are comfortable opening up the emitter and making/breaking some connections and you are not happy with your XPand glasses.
So, I have managed to get 3DV 3D glasses working perfectly with non-3D DLP projectors that were never designed for 3D - before 3D even came out in a big way a while back.
60Hz Dell, 60Hz Benq, and even my current 120Hz Viewsonic in non-3D mode. I can say that blank frames are not needed because DLP doesn't suffer from persistence as does LCD technology.
I appreciate that there may be nuances that have yet to be explored which might make solutions unworkable, but we won't know till we try I guess.
Currently, my projector is down again due to a failed power supply board (bad capacitors I think, actually replacing them now as we speak).
It's actually astonishing - I have had this projector for 8 years. It has broke down about 10 times in that time for various reasons, but have put over 20,000 hours on it - that has to be some kind of record! Maybe it will last me some time longer if I get lucky :)
As always, your input it much appreciated! From the results of help, I'll of course send out a ghosting circuit to you if we can indeed make one - if you are comfortable opening up the emitter and making/breaking some connections and you are not happy with your XPand glasses.
So, I have managed to get 3DV 3D glasses working perfectly with non-3D DLP projectors that were never designed for 3D - before 3D even came out in a big way a while back.
60Hz Dell, 60Hz Benq, and even my current 120Hz Viewsonic in non-3D mode. I can say that blank frames are not needed because DLP doesn't suffer from persistence as does LCD technology.
I appreciate that there may be nuances that have yet to be explored which might make solutions unworkable, but we won't know till we try I guess.
Currently, my projector is down again due to a failed power supply board (bad capacitors I think, actually replacing them now as we speak).
It's actually astonishing - I have had this projector for 8 years. It has broke down about 10 times in that time for various reasons, but have put over 20,000 hours on it - that has to be some kind of record! Maybe it will last me some time longer if I get lucky :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Hello Russell old friend.
As always, your input it much appreciated! From the results of help, I'll of course send out a ghosting circuit to you if we can indeed make one - if you are comfortable opening up the emitter and making/breaking some connections and you are not happy with your XPand glasses.
So, I have managed to get 3DV 3D glasses working perfectly with non-3D DLP projectors that were never designed for 3D - before 3D even came out in a big way a while back.
60Hz Dell, 60Hz Benq, and even my current 120Hz Viewsonic in non-3D mode. I can say that blank frames are not needed because DLP doesn't suffer from persistence as does LCD technology.
I appreciate that there may be nuances that have yet to be explored which might make solutions unworkable, but we won't know till we try I guess.
Currently, my projector is down again due to a failed power supply board (bad capacitors I think, actually replacing them now as we speak).
It's actually astonishing - I have had this projector for 8 years. It has broke down about 10 times in that time for various reasons, but have put over 20,000 hours on it - that has to be some kind of record! Maybe it will last me some time longer if I get lucky :)
[/quote]
Very interesting :-)
My PJD6531w never had any DMD issues, but it did suffer from PSU failure (capacitors most likely) , which was repaired just inside the 3 year viewsonic warranty. Actually, I'm not sure if they repaired it or just sent me a refurb unit, because it had that dodgy firmware update you posted about years ago (which added 16:9) but had the 'instant shut off' issue.
Viewsonic told me it was a 'feature' of the upgraded power supply.... hmm..
Anyway, I always thought the blank frames weren't needed for exactly the reason you stated, but on Blurbusters he explained that it was still necessary. I have to defer to his expertise as he really does know this stuff inside out (he even talked about a custom timing circuit as well), but I suspect it's more to hide pixel transitions. . I suppose BFI might make the difference in terms of outright efficiency, just because on a DLP it would stop the pixels being shown at all during the shutter transition and we know that the LCD shutter itself doesn't block out everything 100%.
I will try the XPand glasses, but my projector has been sent back to Amazon at the moment so need to wait for the new one. Long story, no fault as such but won't go into it here.
If that still doesn't work, I'd be interested in trying a custom timing circuit. It's kind of funny that the offer in itself is good timing, because I recently bought a 2nd hand emitter and glasses from Ebay so I can afford to play around with it.
As always, your input it much appreciated! From the results of help, I'll of course send out a ghosting circuit to you if we can indeed make one - if you are comfortable opening up the emitter and making/breaking some connections and you are not happy with your XPand glasses.
So, I have managed to get 3DV 3D glasses working perfectly with non-3D DLP projectors that were never designed for 3D - before 3D even came out in a big way a while back.
60Hz Dell, 60Hz Benq, and even my current 120Hz Viewsonic in non-3D mode. I can say that blank frames are not needed because DLP doesn't suffer from persistence as does LCD technology.
I appreciate that there may be nuances that have yet to be explored which might make solutions unworkable, but we won't know till we try I guess.
Currently, my projector is down again due to a failed power supply board (bad capacitors I think, actually replacing them now as we speak).
It's actually astonishing - I have had this projector for 8 years. It has broke down about 10 times in that time for various reasons, but have put over 20,000 hours on it - that has to be some kind of record! Maybe it will last me some time longer if I get lucky :)
Very interesting :-)
My PJD6531w never had any DMD issues, but it did suffer from PSU failure (capacitors most likely) , which was repaired just inside the 3 year viewsonic warranty. Actually, I'm not sure if they repaired it or just sent me a refurb unit, because it had that dodgy firmware update you posted about years ago (which added 16:9) but had the 'instant shut off' issue.
Viewsonic told me it was a 'feature' of the upgraded power supply.... hmm..
Anyway, I always thought the blank frames weren't needed for exactly the reason you stated, but on Blurbusters he explained that it was still necessary. I have to defer to his expertise as he really does know this stuff inside out (he even talked about a custom timing circuit as well), but I suspect it's more to hide pixel transitions. . I suppose BFI might make the difference in terms of outright efficiency, just because on a DLP it would stop the pixels being shown at all during the shutter transition and we know that the LCD shutter itself doesn't block out everything 100%.
I will try the XPand glasses, but my projector has been sent back to Amazon at the moment so need to wait for the new one. Long story, no fault as such but won't go into it here.
If that still doesn't work, I'd be interested in trying a custom timing circuit. It's kind of funny that the offer in itself is good timing, because I recently bought a 2nd hand emitter and glasses from Ebay so I can afford to play around with it.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
I have bought the optoma 4k550st and when the emitter is connected i can choose generic crt mode.
Ingame 3D output from the pj works, i can see 2 images but the DLP Link glasses don't work.
I can see a 3D Image for 1 second with weird colors and then the glasses deactivate.
I think the emitter is overwriting the output or so, because the 3D Vision glasses show a 3D image but it switches every 30 seconds or so between working, weird colors and sick ghosting.
The PJ has a DLP Link and a IR 3D mode but the modes don't change the result, the 3D vision glasses output clearly comes from the nvidia emitter.
I have bought the optoma 4k550st and when the emitter is connected i can choose generic crt mode.
Ingame 3D output from the pj works, i can see 2 images but the DLP Link glasses don't work.
I can see a 3D Image for 1 second with weird colors and then the glasses deactivate.
I think the emitter is overwriting the output or so, because the 3D Vision glasses show a 3D image but it switches every 30 seconds or so between working, weird colors and sick ghosting.
The PJ has a DLP Link and a IR 3D mode but the modes don't change the result, the 3D vision glasses output clearly comes from the nvidia emitter.
With the TK800, you have to put it into 3d mode, then you choose either automatic or manual formats, including frame sequential.
Basically, with 3d mode turned on, the projector won't accept a 1920x1080x120Hz signal.
Frame sequential mode is only available to be chosen if 3d mode is on.
So I think when you turn 3d mode on, the projector disables the 4k shift AND locks down the accepted range of input resolutions.
Honestly I'm still torn on what to do, but I think I'm still going to keep the TK800. At the end of the day, I have my 3d vision surround setup + I have my 3d OLED, so it will just be a case of choosing how I want to play depending on the game and my mood! :-)
I spent about 5 hours testing this projector last night.. It took so long because of the number of testing parameters (win 7/10/drivers/edid/3d mode/silent mode/HDMI cables etc) and the slow speed of the BenQ in switching inputs and changing menu options.
One significant find, is that I am able to verify that my Denon X4300h AVR will definitely accept and pass through a 1920x1080x120Hz signal. I verified this on the blurbusters UFO test.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
Yes, I agree, although from my conversations on blurbusters it's exacerbated by the lack of black frame insertion.
There are in fact timing offsets in the registry but I'm not sure that they do anything, it's possible they are legcy keys for older drivers. There is also a timings ini file in the Nvidia drivers that has different configurations for different displays. I think it's encrypted though not sure and I haven't found any examples of anyone successfully modifying either the registry key or the ini file.
https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=15135#p75842
http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=557
I have some XpanD X104 glasses. These do support the Nvidia Ir protocol and do have adjustable timing ;-)
I will try them at some point but I'm still not hopeful and I've had enough of testing for now.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
If keeping the projector I guess you rather want to use it for movies? For 4K HDR movies and the extra lamp power + combined on a high contrast screen the projector can very likely show its full potential. But only keeping it for 3D gaming / 3d movies I would say it's not worth it. There are very cheap Full HD projectors out there (especially now on cyber monday) where you can get the same 3D results.
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
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Definetely do try those - it should be very easy to notice if crosstalk gets better/worse. Also you may try to remove receiver out of equation, maybe without it timing would be better?
That's a good question and to be honest it's hard to answer. I've not compared the 3d for a while, but I would say that the OLED is as good as the 3d monitors for crosstalk if not better.
The fact that it's 55", has no flicker, better colours, no pixel inversion artifacts and can accept interlaced 4k 3d makes it a superior display overall.
Regarding the projector, yes it's a bit of a conundrum, but then I ask myself when was the last time I gamed in 3d on the projector anyway? So yes, the projector will be used more for 'big TV' and movies etc.
For 3d, the monitors have superior input lag and are bright.
The OLED can do everything well, but lag is slightly high. The C6 that was released the year after mine has much better input lag. If I want bigger field of view, I can just sit on the floor on a gaming chair if I want to use the OLED.
I'll probably end up keeping the TK800 for a year or two then upgrade again. If I didn't have the option of the OLED, I'd probably go for the UHD40.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
Bought an Optoma UHD3000A. Someone here who knows how to force it in 3D mode? The key is greyed and i cannot switch to 3d mode via the remote. Did i configure something wrong?
Had hoped to get similar results as with the uhd40, that is described here, but would also be happy with 1920x1080 in SBS Mode.
Sorry for my bad english...
RTX 2080ti / i7700k / 16 GB Ram 3200MHz / Optoma UHD 3000A / Win 10 / Vive Pro
Not sure but it seems this projector has the same limitations as UHD 51A (no frame sequential mode support). 3D movies from bluray players should work out of the box. For PC games you typically need Nvidia 3DTV Play (I think it costs 20-30 dollars or so). When you have a 3D Vision kit and the IR emitter connected to the PC 3DTV Play is automatically unlocked without any further costs.
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de
I have in the past built a phase shift circuit which we can all integrate into our 3DV emitters to compensate for the phase shift, if someone can confirm that this indeed is the only problem.
When he has the time, I think rustyk21 would be able to confirm either way with his "XpanD X104 glasses with adjustable timing" :)
Alternatively, if some owner is near Cambridge UK, I can come around to your place or you can come around to mine, and we can do some extensive testing with CRU, inf hacks, custom resolutions etc, to get to the bottom of this - I would provide them with a free ghost removing circuit after using the test data to build one, for their trouble (and provide instructions here).
My feeling and past experience is that if it's not skipping frames and is passing the blurbusters 120Hz tests, there is absolutely no reason for it to NOT support frame sequential 3D - it just needs a little help getting there with a phase shift circuit. We Are So Close!
2. In relation to frame sequential 1080p@120Hz: Since the 3D projectors such as the UHD51 also provide 3D @ 4K via various methods (please correct me if I'm wrong about 3D @ 4K SBS/OU etc), I think our golden aim ought to be to get one of these working with frame sequential (not frame packed) 3DV, 1080p @ 120Hz. I'm leaning more towards one of Optoma's solutions due to their "ultra sharp" sharpening filter I'm personally interested in.
3. Towards Optoma's end: I have observed that a lot of Optoma's non-RGBRGB wheels do NOT have a white colour segment - they are 5 segmant wheels with RGBCY e.g. UHD60. From various reviews, they are much brighter (of course), but their colour renditioning is actually damn good - I would say that I rather prefer it over RGBRGB, and they are brighter which is more important for 3D (without cheating brightness measurements by having a white segment).
The RGBCY (UHD60, brighter) is on the bottom, the identical RGBRGB (UHD65, dimmer, but so called better colour) on the top...
https://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/optoma-uhd60-review-and-comparison-to-uhd65-picture-quality-2/
Summing up, I personally think that a bright, native 3D supporting Optoma, with a 5 segment RGBCY wheel (and my personal favourite - "ultra sharp" feature) would be a brilliant product to aim to get working at 1080p @ 120Hz - if we physically need to remove the ghosting, then damn it, so be it... :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Isnt there any 3-chip machine that produces low crosstalk 3d , or is the Price toi high for average user ?
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I know you hate RBE, and of course I appreciate that. I don't know of any multi-chip affordable projectors.
============
BTW, Do Optoma's 3D projectors work in SBS/TB @ 4K? Their specs only show 1080p 60Hz :/
Optoma's UHD370X is 3500 lumen, though I can't find any information on the colour wheel, nor does it seem to support "UltraDetail"
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I used to think this, but unfortunately it's not that simple. Timing is a big part of the issue, but even DLPs use black frame insertion so to get best 3d you need it to be supported as a 3d mode.
If you didn't alrady see if, have a read through this : https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4605
So I think you could still get it working on an unsupported display by tweaking timing, but it probably won't be optimal. Whether it's 'good enough' is another question!
I will try the Xpand's at some point, won't be for another week though.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
As always, your input it much appreciated! From the results of help, I'll of course send out a ghosting circuit to you if we can indeed make one - if you are comfortable opening up the emitter and making/breaking some connections and you are not happy with your XPand glasses.
So, I have managed to get 3DV 3D glasses working perfectly with non-3D DLP projectors that were never designed for 3D - before 3D even came out in a big way a while back.
60Hz Dell, 60Hz Benq, and even my current 120Hz Viewsonic in non-3D mode. I can say that blank frames are not needed because DLP doesn't suffer from persistence as does LCD technology.
I appreciate that there may be nuances that have yet to be explored which might make solutions unworkable, but we won't know till we try I guess.
Currently, my projector is down again due to a failed power supply board (bad capacitors I think, actually replacing them now as we speak).
It's actually astonishing - I have had this projector for 8 years. It has broke down about 10 times in that time for various reasons, but have put over 20,000 hours on it - that has to be some kind of record! Maybe it will last me some time longer if I get lucky :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Very interesting :-)
My PJD6531w never had any DMD issues, but it did suffer from PSU failure (capacitors most likely) , which was repaired just inside the 3 year viewsonic warranty. Actually, I'm not sure if they repaired it or just sent me a refurb unit, because it had that dodgy firmware update you posted about years ago (which added 16:9) but had the 'instant shut off' issue.
Viewsonic told me it was a 'feature' of the upgraded power supply.... hmm..
Anyway, I always thought the blank frames weren't needed for exactly the reason you stated, but on Blurbusters he explained that it was still necessary. I have to defer to his expertise as he really does know this stuff inside out (he even talked about a custom timing circuit as well), but I suspect it's more to hide pixel transitions. . I suppose BFI might make the difference in terms of outright efficiency, just because on a DLP it would stop the pixels being shown at all during the shutter transition and we know that the LCD shutter itself doesn't block out everything 100%.
I will try the XPand glasses, but my projector has been sent back to Amazon at the moment so need to wait for the new one. Long story, no fault as such but won't go into it here.
If that still doesn't work, I'd be interested in trying a custom timing circuit. It's kind of funny that the offer in itself is good timing, because I recently bought a 2nd hand emitter and glasses from Ebay so I can afford to play around with it.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
Ingame 3D output from the pj works, i can see 2 images but the DLP Link glasses don't work.
I can see a 3D Image for 1 second with weird colors and then the glasses deactivate.
I think the emitter is overwriting the output or so, because the 3D Vision glasses show a 3D image but it switches every 30 seconds or so between working, weird colors and sick ghosting.
The PJ has a DLP Link and a IR 3D mode but the modes don't change the result, the 3D vision glasses output clearly comes from the nvidia emitter.
GTX 1080, i7 7700k, 16GB RAM @3200MHz, Win7
3DTVPlay @ ACER Predator Z650