Video looks "checkered" with 3D Vision Samsung 22" 120hz
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So I've noticed, and this really isn't a big deal, but video appears to be checkered per pixel when using the 3d vision. At first I thought it was the monitor, but after switching to normal mode I noticed that it was not checkered. I started wondering why it was doing this. The only guesses I had were either -
a) The monitor is not 120hz and is doing trickery with 60hz to emulate 120hz
B) Nvidia 3D vision drivers are only processing half the pixels to save SPs for rendering 2 perspectives.
I'm guessing B. It makes sense. They need to render 2 scenes at once at an extremely high refresh rate. Your FPS is cut in half, but not really. You see your full frame rate, but you see it in pairs. So 2 FPS is actually 1 FPS due to the fact that you're alternating eyes and combine 2 frames into 1. But really, there is no slowdown. 0%. So how would you get the video processing power to rending from 2 different perspectives at once? This would be like opening up 2 games at once. I'm guessing that they only process half the pixels to keep from reducing frame rates.
AND IF THAT IS THE CASE (and I'm probably going to need a technical answer from nvidia on this one) would there be an option to do full pixel rendering for older games or with future cards? You going to get to a point when it's ok to only get half the frame rate.
Any answers from nvidia or comments from smart peoples would be appreciated.
So I've noticed, and this really isn't a big deal, but video appears to be checkered per pixel when using the 3d vision. At first I thought it was the monitor, but after switching to normal mode I noticed that it was not checkered. I started wondering why it was doing this. The only guesses I had were either -
a) The monitor is not 120hz and is doing trickery with 60hz to emulate 120hz
B) Nvidia 3D vision drivers are only processing half the pixels to save SPs for rendering 2 perspectives.
I'm guessing B. It makes sense. They need to render 2 scenes at once at an extremely high refresh rate. Your FPS is cut in half, but not really. You see your full frame rate, but you see it in pairs. So 2 FPS is actually 1 FPS due to the fact that you're alternating eyes and combine 2 frames into 1. But really, there is no slowdown. 0%. So how would you get the video processing power to rending from 2 different perspectives at once? This would be like opening up 2 games at once. I'm guessing that they only process half the pixels to keep from reducing frame rates.
AND IF THAT IS THE CASE (and I'm probably going to need a technical answer from nvidia on this one) would there be an option to do full pixel rendering for older games or with future cards? You going to get to a point when it's ok to only get half the frame rate.
Any answers from nvidia or comments from smart peoples would be appreciated.
I do not see "checkered" image with 3d vision.
Maybe you are running lower than native resolution.
And it even does not make sense, because half pixels would mean straps in image - i.e 840x1050 (believe me everybody would notice this low resolution).
"Checkered" pattern is usually feature of stereo displaying but with low resolution or large displays.
Maybe you are running lower than native resolution.
And it even does not make sense, because half pixels would mean straps in image - i.e 840x1050 (believe me everybody would notice this low resolution).
"Checkered" pattern is usually feature of stereo displaying but with low resolution or large displays.
You gotta get close to the monitor. You won't notice it if you're just sitting back, but if you put your face up near the screen you will notice that pixel per pixel it is checkered. Of course with the glasses on and sitting back with the blaring bright contrast ration the colors blur and you just don't notice it. It's there. Turn off the 3d and it goes away.
I'm using 1680x1050, if you take off your glasses and look at the screen with 3D vision turned on it's really obvious.
You gotta get close to the monitor. You won't notice it if you're just sitting back, but if you put your face up near the screen you will notice that pixel per pixel it is checkered. Of course with the glasses on and sitting back with the blaring bright contrast ration the colors blur and you just don't notice it. It's there. Turn off the 3d and it goes away.
I'm using 1680x1050, if you take off your glasses and look at the screen with 3D vision turned on it's really obvious.
No it is not. Because if it would be so, you would see alias on e.g. subtitles or text which is not the case.
Moreover I tried fraps and took screenshot from stereo and normal and also stereo screenshot and I have compared them in gimp, they are all full res.
I you want to prove your hypothesis, provide screenshots please.
I'll snap some screen shots when I get home, but it is not noticeable with text. I think the way that it's working is that it alternates the pixels from each perspective. So while it's checkered, its not "Truly" checkered. You see all the pixels but every other one is from the other perspective and they're kinda weaved together. So with one eye you see an image that is checkered 10101 and from the other eye you see 01010 from a different perspective so your brain kinda weaves those together. Except, it doesn't work 100% because the color may be slightly different between the two rendered textures (due to perspective change) and it causes this checkered effect.
I've noticed it the most with Dungeons & Dragons Online (it's free to download and play)
I'll snap some screen shots when I get home, but it is not noticeable with text. I think the way that it's working is that it alternates the pixels from each perspective. So while it's checkered, its not "Truly" checkered. You see all the pixels but every other one is from the other perspective and they're kinda weaved together. So with one eye you see an image that is checkered 10101 and from the other eye you see 01010 from a different perspective so your brain kinda weaves those together. Except, it doesn't work 100% because the color may be slightly different between the two rendered textures (due to perspective change) and it causes this checkered effect.
I've noticed it the most with Dungeons & Dragons Online (it's free to download and play)
Maybe I understand what you mean, but you are mistaken.
It is probably alias on edges that you are refering to, but it is logical because from different views stairs on edges are located on different place.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='594720' date='Sep 30 2009, 04:40 PM']Maybe I understand what you mean, but you are mistaken.
It is probably alias on edges that you are refering to, but it is logical because from different views stairs on edges are located on different place.
Solution is to use antialiasing of course.[/quote]
No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='594744' date='Sep 30 2009, 10:15 PM']No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.[/quote]
I've never notice this while gaming. I only see improvements whit 3D Vision compared to 2D. I notice a few ghost and doesn't bother me at all, cause only a few games have it and msot of them it's hard to notice. This checkered issue goes beyond my standards, and nothing is perfect, there will be always small issues. We should care for the major issues. But anyway thanks for the info though.
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='594744' date='Sep 30 2009, 10:15 PM']No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
I've never notice this while gaming. I only see improvements whit 3D Vision compared to 2D. I notice a few ghost and doesn't bother me at all, cause only a few games have it and msot of them it's hard to notice. This checkered issue goes beyond my standards, and nothing is perfect, there will be always small issues. We should care for the major issues. But anyway thanks for the info though.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
When 3D is enabled in the control panel, the graphics card is rendering 2 images on top of each other. Even when 3D is not enabled in the game, the driver STILL renders 2 images. One for left eye and one for right eye.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.
When 3D is enabled in the control panel, the graphics card is rendering 2 images on top of each other. Even when 3D is not enabled in the game, the driver STILL renders 2 images. One for left eye and one for right eye.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.
[quote name='VoodooKing' post='594826' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:22 PM']When 3D is enabled in the control panel, the graphics card is rendering 2 images on top of each other. Even when 3D is not enabled in the game, the driver STILL renders 2 images. One for left eye and one for right eye.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.[/quote]
Whhhooooo hahahah, damm thats funny. "if you decide to play in 2d", your killing me lol.
[quote name='VoodooKing' post='594826' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:22 PM']When 3D is enabled in the control panel, the graphics card is rendering 2 images on top of each other. Even when 3D is not enabled in the game, the driver STILL renders 2 images. One for left eye and one for right eye.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.
Whhhooooo hahahah, damm thats funny. "if you decide to play in 2d", your killing me lol.
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='594744' date='Sep 30 2009, 11:15 PM']No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.[/quote]
There are two things
- what image is calculated by Nvidia graphics card
- what image is displayed by monitor
you can take screenshots in game and compare them in your favourite graphics editor or take camera and take photos of monitor and compare that photos
maybe Paperninja has somehow damaged monitor so he is observing weird checkering
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='594744' date='Sep 30 2009, 11:15 PM']No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
There are two things
- what image is calculated by Nvidia graphics card
- what image is displayed by monitor
you can take screenshots in game and compare them in your favourite graphics editor or take camera and take photos of monitor and compare that photos
maybe Paperninja has somehow damaged monitor so he is observing weird checkering
I took screen shots last night. It doesn't show up. It also doesn't show up when running games in non-3D mode. The monitor is not damaged. I think it has something to do with the way the 3D driver handles refreshing between two perspectives.
Whatever the case is the bottom line is this
- While in 3D mode, images do not appear as vibrant or rich and there is definitely some type of pixel separation in the image as well some odd gamma issues with striping.
It's not terrible, and I'm not going to stop playing in 3D. It's freaking awesome, but if you switch between the two a few times while playing a game, you'll notice it.
I took screen shots last night. It doesn't show up. It also doesn't show up when running games in non-3D mode. The monitor is not damaged. I think it has something to do with the way the 3D driver handles refreshing between two perspectives.
Whatever the case is the bottom line is this
- While in 3D mode, images do not appear as vibrant or rich and there is definitely some type of pixel separation in the image as well some odd gamma issues with striping.
It's not terrible, and I'm not going to stop playing in 3D. It's freaking awesome, but if you switch between the two a few times while playing a game, you'll notice it.
I understand now what you mean, but this is visible only in stereo and I guess this is virtual thing, because if you close one eye the second "sees the stuff in full resolution".
Nvidia 3D vision does not do image decimation in my opinion.
(ps for others: and I do not have this interlacing look, really I studied it now very carefully)
I understand now what you mean, but this is visible only in stereo and I guess this is virtual thing, because if you close one eye the second "sees the stuff in full resolution".
Nvidia 3D vision does not do image decimation in my opinion.
(ps for others: and I do not have this interlacing look, really I studied it now very carefully)
Yeah, you get the full image per eye. It's not stitching the images together as I described. Something is still odd though. It may be the way the screen is refreshing. It almost looks like ever other pixel has a different gamma setting. It's not bad at all, but the fact that I can't figure out why it's happening is driving me nuts.
Yeah, you get the full image per eye. It's not stitching the images together as I described. Something is still odd though. It may be the way the screen is refreshing. It almost looks like ever other pixel has a different gamma setting. It's not bad at all, but the fact that I can't figure out why it's happening is driving me nuts.
a) The monitor is not 120hz and is doing trickery with 60hz to emulate 120hz
B) Nvidia 3D vision drivers are only processing half the pixels to save SPs for rendering 2 perspectives.
I'm guessing B. It makes sense. They need to render 2 scenes at once at an extremely high refresh rate. Your FPS is cut in half, but not really. You see your full frame rate, but you see it in pairs. So 2 FPS is actually 1 FPS due to the fact that you're alternating eyes and combine 2 frames into 1. But really, there is no slowdown. 0%. So how would you get the video processing power to rending from 2 different perspectives at once? This would be like opening up 2 games at once. I'm guessing that they only process half the pixels to keep from reducing frame rates.
AND IF THAT IS THE CASE (and I'm probably going to need a technical answer from nvidia on this one) would there be an option to do full pixel rendering for older games or with future cards? You going to get to a point when it's ok to only get half the frame rate.
Any answers from nvidia or comments from smart peoples would be appreciated.
a) The monitor is not 120hz and is doing trickery with 60hz to emulate 120hz
B) Nvidia 3D vision drivers are only processing half the pixels to save SPs for rendering 2 perspectives.
I'm guessing B. It makes sense. They need to render 2 scenes at once at an extremely high refresh rate. Your FPS is cut in half, but not really. You see your full frame rate, but you see it in pairs. So 2 FPS is actually 1 FPS due to the fact that you're alternating eyes and combine 2 frames into 1. But really, there is no slowdown. 0%. So how would you get the video processing power to rending from 2 different perspectives at once? This would be like opening up 2 games at once. I'm guessing that they only process half the pixels to keep from reducing frame rates.
AND IF THAT IS THE CASE (and I'm probably going to need a technical answer from nvidia on this one) would there be an option to do full pixel rendering for older games or with future cards? You going to get to a point when it's ok to only get half the frame rate.
Any answers from nvidia or comments from smart peoples would be appreciated.
Maybe you are running lower than native resolution.
And it even does not make sense, because half pixels would mean straps in image - i.e 840x1050 (believe me everybody would notice this low resolution).
"Checkered" pattern is usually feature of stereo displaying but with low resolution or large displays.
Maybe you are running lower than native resolution.
And it even does not make sense, because half pixels would mean straps in image - i.e 840x1050 (believe me everybody would notice this low resolution).
"Checkered" pattern is usually feature of stereo displaying but with low resolution or large displays.
I'm using 1680x1050, if you take off your glasses and look at the screen with 3D vision turned on it's really obvious.
I'm using 1680x1050, if you take off your glasses and look at the screen with 3D vision turned on it's really obvious.
Moreover I tried fraps and took screenshot from stereo and normal and also stereo screenshot and I have compared them in gimp, they are all full res.
I you want to prove your hypothesis, provide screenshots please.
Moreover I tried fraps and took screenshot from stereo and normal and also stereo screenshot and I have compared them in gimp, they are all full res.
I you want to prove your hypothesis, provide screenshots please.
I've noticed it the most with Dungeons & Dragons Online (it's free to download and play)
[url="http://www.ddo.com"]www.ddo.com[/url]
I've noticed it the most with Dungeons & Dragons Online (it's free to download and play)
www.ddo.com
It is probably alias on edges that you are refering to, but it is logical because from different views stairs on edges are located on different place.
Solution is to use antialiasing of course.
It is probably alias on edges that you are refering to, but it is logical because from different views stairs on edges are located on different place.
Solution is to use antialiasing of course.
It is probably alias on edges that you are refering to, but it is logical because from different views stairs on edges are located on different place.
Solution is to use antialiasing of course.[/quote]
No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154[/url]
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
It is probably alias on edges that you are refering to, but it is logical because from different views stairs on edges are located on different place.
Solution is to use antialiasing of course.
No, he is not mistaken...this is a well known issue that was been discussed for over 6 months in this thread:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154[/url]
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.[/quote]
I've never notice this while gaming. I only see improvements whit 3D Vision compared to 2D. I notice a few ghost and doesn't bother me at all, cause only a few games have it and msot of them it's hard to notice. This checkered issue goes beyond my standards, and nothing is perfect, there will be always small issues. We should care for the major issues. But anyway thanks for the info though.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
I've never notice this while gaming. I only see improvements whit 3D Vision compared to 2D. I notice a few ghost and doesn't bother me at all, cause only a few games have it and msot of them it's hard to notice. This checkered issue goes beyond my standards, and nothing is perfect, there will be always small issues. We should care for the major issues. But anyway thanks for the info though.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.[/quote]
Whhhooooo hahahah, damm thats funny. "if you decide to play in 2d", your killing me lol.
What you are seeing is 2 images at 60Hz, one for left and right eye. That is why you are seeing a checked or horizontal lines effect.
Easy to fix. Just turn off 3D in the control panel if you decide to play in 2D.
Whhhooooo hahahah, damm thats funny. "if you decide to play in 2d", your killing me lol.
Watercool any gpu cheap, AKA- "The Mod"
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154[/url]
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.[/quote]
There are two things
- what image is calculated by Nvidia graphics card
- what image is displayed by monitor
you can take screenshots in game and compare them in your favourite graphics editor or take camera and take photos of monitor and compare that photos
maybe Paperninja has somehow damaged monitor so he is observing weird checkering
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=90154
There are many comparison screenshots showing the problem on page 3 of that thread. I'm pretty sure this is what he is referring to. Nvidia hasn't acknowledged the problem and so it seems we just have to live with it.
There are two things
- what image is calculated by Nvidia graphics card
- what image is displayed by monitor
you can take screenshots in game and compare them in your favourite graphics editor or take camera and take photos of monitor and compare that photos
maybe Paperninja has somehow damaged monitor so he is observing weird checkering
Whatever the case is the bottom line is this
- While in 3D mode, images do not appear as vibrant or rich and there is definitely some type of pixel separation in the image as well some odd gamma issues with striping.
It's not terrible, and I'm not going to stop playing in 3D. It's freaking awesome, but if you switch between the two a few times while playing a game, you'll notice it.
Whatever the case is the bottom line is this
- While in 3D mode, images do not appear as vibrant or rich and there is definitely some type of pixel separation in the image as well some odd gamma issues with striping.
It's not terrible, and I'm not going to stop playing in 3D. It's freaking awesome, but if you switch between the two a few times while playing a game, you'll notice it.
Nvidia 3D vision does not do image decimation in my opinion.
(ps for others: and I do not have this interlacing look, really I studied it now very carefully)
Nvidia 3D vision does not do image decimation in my opinion.
(ps for others: and I do not have this interlacing look, really I studied it now very carefully)
noticed tiny horizontal lines as soon as I turned on the ingame stereo option, but it's gone after I turned on 3D vision
noticed tiny horizontal lines as soon as I turned on the ingame stereo option, but it's gone after I turned on 3D vision