This is a topic that has been discussed at one point in every thread concerning playing 3D Vision in 4K using EDID override. Since all of these threads are mainly not aimed at the crosstalk/ghosting aspect I thought this topic is definitely worthy of a dedicated thread.
The topic itself is very hard to discuss because it has so much to do with subjective perception which could lead to misunderstanding. So someone who identifies the slightest bit of ghosting on his TV may raise the alarm and may ask on the forum how other users (maybe owners of the exact same TV-model) perceive ghosting on their TV. Maybe someone answers who is not very sensitive about ghosting and tells him, that his TV doesn't show any crosstalk at all (although this perception may be more due to the fact that he is just not very sensitive to crosstalk). In the end the guy who initially asked the question may consider to return the TV because he is now of the opinion that he has a faulty TV.
I am exactly in this situation now. I got my LG OLED 55EF950v (55EF9500 in the US) last week and after some problems getting it to run 3D Vision in 4K (solution was that you have to set the TV's aspect ratio to "Just Scan" and not "16:9") I am loving it more than words can describe. But just like some of you may know it's those things we like the most were we're also looking for the fly in the ointment the most. I noticed that most of the guys here who already own a passive OLED 4K TV asked at one point if the crosstalk/ghosting they witnessed on their TV is just normal or if it could be a faulty TV.
And somehow this question has not been answered until now (as I said I know this one is hard to answer).
Since the problem lies in the subjective perception of crosstalk/ghosting you never know if someone's perception differs from your own because he is just more or less sensitive to crosstalk/ghosting or because the TVs really are different in this regard.
What can be done here at this point is a discussion about something that can be named or with the help of a screenshot even be clearly shown. So if someone knows exactly what he has to look for it's easier to concentrate on that and get an own perception.
In my case I have the strong feeling that my experiences with DOOM somehow tainted my perception. Playing Doom I definitely notice some ghosting with the LG OLED 4K that I don't notice with my old Samsung 2233rz or even my 65" 1080p LG passive LED TV.
At the same time I don't see any significant ghosting in other games. Looking at my 3D Vision screenshots from a variety of games I also mostly don't notice any ghosting. But you know how it is: if you saw it once and it even wasn't there on another display your perception is just tainted. Add to that the 14-day returning period (which I am still in for another week)and you know what my problem is:
I suspect that my TV is totally ok but I am just not sure. And since this baby is so great otherwise I just want to be sure that it performs as it should. And judging from all the LG OLED owners here I can see that I am not alone with this burning question.
So let me start with my perception:
1. Nvidia Test application (yes it does also run using Windows 10, just make sure to turn off Antialiasing before launching the app).
Everything looks fine here. But really focussing on crosstalk I notice ghosting especially when the Nvidia eye is protruding from the screen and is floating in front of you. As I said it's definitely minor ghosting but it is there. Also those metal bars at the top of the screen have some crosstalk on one side.
2. Doom
Here I can provide you with a little bit more since I took some photos that show very clearly the ghosting that I noticed with my TV. It would be awesome if one of the owners of an LG OLED 4K passive could compare these photos with his personal perception. (in case you still have the game installed of course).
I took those photos from the very beginning of the FOUNDRY-chapter (Chapter 3). You just have to select the chapter and when the game begins turn left to see the monitor and the barrels.
The figurines are even better suited for this test as these are high contrast scenes where the figurine is surrounded by total darkness. You can find those under the "collectibles"-tab in Doom. Just zoom in and out because dependent on your depth/convergence settings you can always zoom it so you don't see any crosstalk but when zooming in a little more the ghosting should definitely appear.
I really can't imagine someone who doesn't notice significant ghosting here when zooming-in to the max.
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/943900/3d-vision/search-information-about-edid-for-3dvision-on-lg-oled-4k-55ef950v-55ef9500-/5/[/url]
Posting #72
3. Dugom's Rabbid-test pattern for Crosstalk/Ghosting
The test pattern consists of 8 pictures. I took a photo of every test-picture through the "odd" lens so you can see my results and compare them to your own results.
This test may be the most comparable one since it's very easy to do and very easy to compare with other user's results.
The rabbid-test pictures can be downloaded here:
[url]http://www.mediafire.com/?0a31apal651bfjo[/url]
And here is the original video (including instructions in the video-description on youtube):
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqpXQVkiJic[/url]
This is a topic that has been discussed at one point in every thread concerning playing 3D Vision in 4K using EDID override. Since all of these threads are mainly not aimed at the crosstalk/ghosting aspect I thought this topic is definitely worthy of a dedicated thread.
The topic itself is very hard to discuss because it has so much to do with subjective perception which could lead to misunderstanding. So someone who identifies the slightest bit of ghosting on his TV may raise the alarm and may ask on the forum how other users (maybe owners of the exact same TV-model) perceive ghosting on their TV. Maybe someone answers who is not very sensitive about ghosting and tells him, that his TV doesn't show any crosstalk at all (although this perception may be more due to the fact that he is just not very sensitive to crosstalk). In the end the guy who initially asked the question may consider to return the TV because he is now of the opinion that he has a faulty TV.
I am exactly in this situation now. I got my LG OLED 55EF950v (55EF9500 in the US) last week and after some problems getting it to run 3D Vision in 4K (solution was that you have to set the TV's aspect ratio to "Just Scan" and not "16:9") I am loving it more than words can describe. But just like some of you may know it's those things we like the most were we're also looking for the fly in the ointment the most. I noticed that most of the guys here who already own a passive OLED 4K TV asked at one point if the crosstalk/ghosting they witnessed on their TV is just normal or if it could be a faulty TV.
And somehow this question has not been answered until now (as I said I know this one is hard to answer).
Since the problem lies in the subjective perception of crosstalk/ghosting you never know if someone's perception differs from your own because he is just more or less sensitive to crosstalk/ghosting or because the TVs really are different in this regard.
What can be done here at this point is a discussion about something that can be named or with the help of a screenshot even be clearly shown. So if someone knows exactly what he has to look for it's easier to concentrate on that and get an own perception.
In my case I have the strong feeling that my experiences with DOOM somehow tainted my perception. Playing Doom I definitely notice some ghosting with the LG OLED 4K that I don't notice with my old Samsung 2233rz or even my 65" 1080p LG passive LED TV.
At the same time I don't see any significant ghosting in other games. Looking at my 3D Vision screenshots from a variety of games I also mostly don't notice any ghosting. But you know how it is: if you saw it once and it even wasn't there on another display your perception is just tainted. Add to that the 14-day returning period (which I am still in for another week)and you know what my problem is:
I suspect that my TV is totally ok but I am just not sure. And since this baby is so great otherwise I just want to be sure that it performs as it should. And judging from all the LG OLED owners here I can see that I am not alone with this burning question.
So let me start with my perception:
1. Nvidia Test application (yes it does also run using Windows 10, just make sure to turn off Antialiasing before launching the app).
Everything looks fine here. But really focussing on crosstalk I notice ghosting especially when the Nvidia eye is protruding from the screen and is floating in front of you. As I said it's definitely minor ghosting but it is there. Also those metal bars at the top of the screen have some crosstalk on one side.
2. Doom
Here I can provide you with a little bit more since I took some photos that show very clearly the ghosting that I noticed with my TV. It would be awesome if one of the owners of an LG OLED 4K passive could compare these photos with his personal perception. (in case you still have the game installed of course).
I took those photos from the very beginning of the FOUNDRY-chapter (Chapter 3). You just have to select the chapter and when the game begins turn left to see the monitor and the barrels.
The figurines are even better suited for this test as these are high contrast scenes where the figurine is surrounded by total darkness. You can find those under the "collectibles"-tab in Doom. Just zoom in and out because dependent on your depth/convergence settings you can always zoom it so you don't see any crosstalk but when zooming in a little more the ghosting should definitely appear.
I really can't imagine someone who doesn't notice significant ghosting here when zooming-in to the max.
3. Dugom's Rabbid-test pattern for Crosstalk/Ghosting
The test pattern consists of 8 pictures. I took a photo of every test-picture through the "odd" lens so you can see my results and compare them to your own results.
This test may be the most comparable one since it's very easy to do and very easy to compare with other user's results.
Sorry, but YouTube isn't going to provide any kind of valid test results.
You need to download Dugam's tests and run them via Nvidia's viewer. he has the link below the video.
@Whyme, Dugom, Rustyk.......
I still have 6 days left to return my OLED 4K-TV (LG 55EF9500/55EF950v) so somehow I need to know if the crosstalk/ghosting I notice when using my TV in 4K 3D Vision (using EDID override) is just normal or rather indicates a faulty TV.
So I am trying to sum-up everything here that characterizes the crosstalk that I am able to notice on my TV and I would be very grateful if someone or even better some of you who also own this TV or a similar LG OLED 4K TV could answer these questions that I am raising here based on personal experience with this TV.
Based on the answers I should be able to finally make a decision (keeping the TV because it seems to run just normal or give it back because it seems I have a faulty one).
I should add that I absolutely love this TV and every game that I tried so far was stunningly awesome. But I need to know about th crosstalk. I should also add that I am playing with 100% depth and high convergence as high depth/convergence-settings seem to have an impact on the crosstalk-matter.
1. I have tried different games and some of them are showing no crosstalk. That said I also tried Doom and WWE 2K16 where I was able to notice some ghosting (especially in high contrast scenes where you are looking at some kind of light-source or bright object next to a dark object). I would like to know if you also noticed significant crosstalk in some games (especially games with high contrast scenes) while not seeing it in other games or if there really is an owner here how claims that he didn't notice any ghosting with his TV in all the games he has tried so far or at least only noticed ghosting so insignificant that you would never be able to notice it if you are not focussing on it. If you also noticed crosstalk can you shortly describe it. In my case the crosstalk can be seen to the left and the right of a specific object (by far not as solid as the actual object but if looking very closely definitely noticeable).
2. When I considered buying the TV Whyme told me that "you could loose the 3D at the edges" and that seems exactly to describe my next finding. Again I will refer to Doom because it is here where I noticed it.
When looking at an object at the top of the screen and putting the camera to show it in the center of the screen everything looks alright. But when putting the camera-view down so the object slowly "goes up" on my screen the ghosting appears when the object reaches near the top of my screen. So an object that was shown solid and crosstalk-free is showing some crosstalk when putting it at the top of the screen while still concentrating in the center of the screen and just looking at it with your peripheral vision.
Can you confirm that there is some crosstalk involved here at the edges of the screen or are you not able to notice any crosstalk at all in these situations?
3. Directly connected to the previous question. The sweetspot for 3D seems to be very narrow with this TV. So if I tilt my head up and down I can see the crosstalk being influenced heavily. It's definitely more significant than on my LG 60 LED 3D TV where I can tilt my head up and down without noticing any serious impact on crosstalk.
Can you confirm the narrow 3D sweet-spot with this TV or can you tilt your head up and down without noticing any significant impact on crosstalk?
4. When doing Dugom's rabbid-crosstalk-test I have absolutely no problem seeing the rabbid in the "darker" pictures while in the brighter pictures the rabbid is only barely visible. It looks a little bit like a water-mark to me (just have a look at my test-results in posting #1 of this thread).
I guess there is no owner of this TV here who can claim that he isn't able to see the bunny in all the test-pictures but I would like to know if there is an owner here who can claim that he is absolutely not able to see the bunny at all in one of the bright test-images.
It would be super awesome if you guys who also own this TV or a similar LG OLED 4K model could answer these 4 questions based on your own experience so I in return can base my decision (keeping it or send it back) on your personal findings.
I still have 6 days left to return my OLED 4K-TV (LG 55EF9500/55EF950v) so somehow I need to know if the crosstalk/ghosting I notice when using my TV in 4K 3D Vision (using EDID override) is just normal or rather indicates a faulty TV.
So I am trying to sum-up everything here that characterizes the crosstalk that I am able to notice on my TV and I would be very grateful if someone or even better some of you who also own this TV or a similar LG OLED 4K TV could answer these questions that I am raising here based on personal experience with this TV.
Based on the answers I should be able to finally make a decision (keeping the TV because it seems to run just normal or give it back because it seems I have a faulty one).
I should add that I absolutely love this TV and every game that I tried so far was stunningly awesome. But I need to know about th crosstalk. I should also add that I am playing with 100% depth and high convergence as high depth/convergence-settings seem to have an impact on the crosstalk-matter.
1. I have tried different games and some of them are showing no crosstalk. That said I also tried Doom and WWE 2K16 where I was able to notice some ghosting (especially in high contrast scenes where you are looking at some kind of light-source or bright object next to a dark object). I would like to know if you also noticed significant crosstalk in some games (especially games with high contrast scenes) while not seeing it in other games or if there really is an owner here how claims that he didn't notice any ghosting with his TV in all the games he has tried so far or at least only noticed ghosting so insignificant that you would never be able to notice it if you are not focussing on it. If you also noticed crosstalk can you shortly describe it. In my case the crosstalk can be seen to the left and the right of a specific object (by far not as solid as the actual object but if looking very closely definitely noticeable).
2. When I considered buying the TV Whyme told me that "you could loose the 3D at the edges" and that seems exactly to describe my next finding. Again I will refer to Doom because it is here where I noticed it.
When looking at an object at the top of the screen and putting the camera to show it in the center of the screen everything looks alright. But when putting the camera-view down so the object slowly "goes up" on my screen the ghosting appears when the object reaches near the top of my screen. So an object that was shown solid and crosstalk-free is showing some crosstalk when putting it at the top of the screen while still concentrating in the center of the screen and just looking at it with your peripheral vision.
Can you confirm that there is some crosstalk involved here at the edges of the screen or are you not able to notice any crosstalk at all in these situations?
3. Directly connected to the previous question. The sweetspot for 3D seems to be very narrow with this TV. So if I tilt my head up and down I can see the crosstalk being influenced heavily. It's definitely more significant than on my LG 60 LED 3D TV where I can tilt my head up and down without noticing any serious impact on crosstalk.
Can you confirm the narrow 3D sweet-spot with this TV or can you tilt your head up and down without noticing any significant impact on crosstalk?
4. When doing Dugom's rabbid-crosstalk-test I have absolutely no problem seeing the rabbid in the "darker" pictures while in the brighter pictures the rabbid is only barely visible. It looks a little bit like a water-mark to me (just have a look at my test-results in posting #1 of this thread).
I guess there is no owner of this TV here who can claim that he isn't able to see the bunny in all the test-pictures but I would like to know if there is an owner here who can claim that he is absolutely not able to see the bunny at all in one of the bright test-images.
It would be super awesome if you guys who also own this TV or a similar LG OLED 4K model could answer these 4 questions based on your own experience so I in return can base my decision (keeping it or send it back) on your personal findings.
I didnt know You already have passiveLG 3D tv (fHD I assume)...
I'm surprised that you have more ghosting with the oled tv...
I had a faulty 3D tv, I send it back,the passive filter was faulty so I had ghosting on different part of the screen near the middle and on the down right...
The new oneI received I'd almost perfect
Now for the high contrast tbrightscene, I definitely have more hosting than my previous 27" Asus vg278h. For examples the middle line of the road in gta5, lights in The Park, computer in Soma etc
In general, cinematics with contrast between faces or hair...
Now I live with that because the experience is better on 4k 49" than fhd 27" ;)
I think it's the limit of passive 3D
Head tilts generates ghosting
I didnt know You already have passiveLG 3D tv (fHD I assume)...
I'm surprised that you have more ghosting with the oled tv...
I had a faulty 3D tv, I send it back,the passive filter was faulty so I had ghosting on different part of the screen near the middle and on the down right...
The new oneI received I'd almost perfect
Now for the high contrast tbrightscene, I definitely have more hosting than my previous 27" Asus vg278h. For examples the middle line of the road in gta5, lights in The Park, computer in Soma etc
In general, cinematics with contrast between faces or hair...
Now I live with that because the experience is better on 4k 49" than fhd 27" ;)
I think it's the limit of passive 3D
Head tilts generates ghosting
You may be attempting to sit too close to screen, if your acceptable 3D viewing zone is too small (especially if you see 2D on edges). My OLED may have a little less ghosting than my prior LED 4K sets (fairly comparable), but I like OLED colors/blacks more.
In your ghosting testing, are the display brightness values comparable (that is, actual room brightness levels)?
You may be attempting to sit too close to screen, if your acceptable 3D viewing zone is too small (especially if you see 2D on edges). My OLED may have a little less ghosting than my prior LED 4K sets (fairly comparable), but I like OLED colors/blacks more.
In your ghosting testing, are the display brightness values comparable (that is, actual room brightness levels)?
Don't get me wrong chtiblue. The OLED is absolutely stunning and crosstalk-free in several games. My experiences are just tainted because I noticed the mentioned crosstalk in Doom where my 60" LED didn't show cross-talk (aside from the figurines where it also shows crosstalk). But am I right that a misaligned passive filter would ALWAYS produce crosstalk in the same areas (in every single game)!? Since I tested several games that show no crosstalk at all doesn't that mean that the TV itself is ruled-out here as being faulty!?
@whyme
Good point. I should check on the picture settings of the 60" fHD to verify that results are comparable. But then how comparable are the picture settings of an LED fHD to the picture settings of an OLED 4K?
What really bothers me is the fact that with a passive TV it is recommended to have the eyes set on TV's center level with a tendency to the lower portion of the screen. This is exactly how I position myself in front of the OLED.
My passive fHD LED is sitting on a low TV stand while I am sitting on a sofa. So my eyes are way above center-level but this 60 fHD TV has close to no crosstalk at all and even tilting my head up and down doesn't change that!
Edit:
Just found a cnet-Review for the LG EG9600 that exactly confirms what was said above. I'll paste the important part here:
Unfortunately 3D on the EG9600 is finicky: it's highly dependent on viewing distance and angle, and if you sit too close or view the screen from too high or too low then crosstalk--that ghostly double image that's the bugaboo of stereoscopic 3D--can be very obvious. I found it much easier to "see" such crosstalk on the EG9600 than on other TVs I've reviewed that use passive 3D, and in fact lack of crosstalk is one of the big advantages passive typically enjoys over active. Not so on the EG9600, at least from too close."
Don't get me wrong chtiblue. The OLED is absolutely stunning and crosstalk-free in several games. My experiences are just tainted because I noticed the mentioned crosstalk in Doom where my 60" LED didn't show cross-talk (aside from the figurines where it also shows crosstalk). But am I right that a misaligned passive filter would ALWAYS produce crosstalk in the same areas (in every single game)!? Since I tested several games that show no crosstalk at all doesn't that mean that the TV itself is ruled-out here as being faulty!?
@whyme
Good point. I should check on the picture settings of the 60" fHD to verify that results are comparable. But then how comparable are the picture settings of an LED fHD to the picture settings of an OLED 4K?
What really bothers me is the fact that with a passive TV it is recommended to have the eyes set on TV's center level with a tendency to the lower portion of the screen. This is exactly how I position myself in front of the OLED.
My passive fHD LED is sitting on a low TV stand while I am sitting on a sofa. So my eyes are way above center-level but this 60 fHD TV has close to no crosstalk at all and even tilting my head up and down doesn't change that!
Edit:
Just found a cnet-Review for the LG EG9600 that exactly confirms what was said above. I'll paste the important part here:
Unfortunately 3D on the EG9600 is finicky: it's highly dependent on viewing distance and angle, and if you sit too close or view the screen from too high or too low then crosstalk--that ghostly double image that's the bugaboo of stereoscopic 3D--can be very obvious. I found it much easier to "see" such crosstalk on the EG9600 than on other TVs I've reviewed that use passive 3D, and in fact lack of crosstalk is one of the big advantages passive typically enjoys over active. Not so on the EG9600, at least from too close."
lohan - Do you have a EG9600 (curved OLED), rather than EF9500 (flat OLED)? The polarization layer is likely to be different for the two screen types. Can you try a EF9500 instead (this is model I have)?
lohan - Do you have a EG9600 (curved OLED), rather than EF9500 (flat OLED)? The polarization layer is likely to be different for the two screen types. Can you try a EF9500 instead (this is model I have)?
I have the exact same model as you whyme. But since the EG9600 also is an OLED 4K passive 3D TV and thus should benefit from the same characteristics (less crosstalk because of OLED) it seemed interesting to me that this review indeed confirmed more crosstalk in comparison to other non OLED 3D passive TVs.
I have the exact same model as you whyme. But since the EG9600 also is an OLED 4K passive 3D TV and thus should benefit from the same characteristics (less crosstalk because of OLED) it seemed interesting to me that this review indeed confirmed more crosstalk in comparison to other non OLED 3D passive TVs.
I think it's important to first clarify the terms and whats being talked about. (I'm also have been guilty of getting them mixed up)
Crosstalk to me is the Stereoscopic exclusive problem where a portion of the image from the images eye bleeds over into the other eye.
Ghosting is similar but pretty different as it can happen in 2d and is generally associated with screens over 4ms response time. Where the previous image can clearly be seen in the picture. Image burn in can also cause this.
My new monitor is prone to Crosstalk more than my previous one. (Asus VG248QE )
It is very much game specific but generally appears in high contrast situations.
For example GTA5 has awful cross-talk on my monitor particularly on scenes in day time with telephone poles against the sky.
However I get none in Doom, none in Dark Souls and only a very small amount (again with trees against the day time sky) in Witcher 3. In TW3 it not always either it depends on the tone of the sky lightning at the time.
I never had ghosting on either screen (both 1ms response)
I wonder is higher resolution has something to do with it, after comparing my 1080p screen to my 1440p one and doing some research into why this happens...
I've basically resigned to live with it at this point and can deal with it for the most part. Correct Monitor calibration and lower contrast (or really high) appears to mitigate it.
I think it's important to first clarify the terms and whats being talked about. (I'm also have been guilty of getting them mixed up)
Crosstalk to me is the Stereoscopic exclusive problem where a portion of the image from the images eye bleeds over into the other eye.
Ghosting is similar but pretty different as it can happen in 2d and is generally associated with screens over 4ms response time. Where the previous image can clearly be seen in the picture. Image burn in can also cause this.
My new monitor is prone to Crosstalk more than my previous one. (Asus VG248QE )
It is very much game specific but generally appears in high contrast situations.
For example GTA5 has awful cross-talk on my monitor particularly on scenes in day time with telephone poles against the sky.
However I get none in Doom, none in Dark Souls and only a very small amount (again with trees against the day time sky) in Witcher 3. In TW3 it not always either it depends on the tone of the sky lightning at the time.
I never had ghosting on either screen (both 1ms response)
I wonder is higher resolution has something to do with it, after comparing my 1080p screen to my 1440p one and doing some research into why this happens...
I've basically resigned to live with it at this point and can deal with it for the most part. Correct Monitor calibration and lower contrast (or really high) appears to mitigate it.
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Yes, we are talking about Crosstalk here which (when speaking of 3D) is commonly also refered to as Ghosting.
I really don't know what to do now. I just checked a LG 4K 3D Demo video on Youtube and everything just looked absolutely beautiful. I could tilt my head without loosing the sweetspot and I wasn't able to notice the slightest bit of Crosstalk even when pausing the video every 5-10 seconds. So I could assume that everything is absolutely ok with my TV but still I am not sure.
@whyme (and every other LG OLED 4K TV owner)
I'll attach a simple picture, known as the "numbers test". You just need to open the picture and set the TV to 3D SBS. Maybe you can tell me how visible the numbers still are for you when looking at them through the "odd eye". Since you use the same distance from TV as me (4 feet) results should be quite comparable.
Also Whyme did you play any game so far using the EF9500 where you noticed some crosstalk or didn't you notice it in every single game you tried so far?
Yes, we are talking about Crosstalk here which (when speaking of 3D) is commonly also refered to as Ghosting.
I really don't know what to do now. I just checked a LG 4K 3D Demo video on Youtube and everything just looked absolutely beautiful. I could tilt my head without loosing the sweetspot and I wasn't able to notice the slightest bit of Crosstalk even when pausing the video every 5-10 seconds. So I could assume that everything is absolutely ok with my TV but still I am not sure.
@whyme (and every other LG OLED 4K TV owner)
I'll attach a simple picture, known as the "numbers test". You just need to open the picture and set the TV to 3D SBS. Maybe you can tell me how visible the numbers still are for you when looking at them through the "odd eye". Since you use the same distance from TV as me (4 feet) results should be quite comparable.
Also Whyme did you play any game so far using the EF9500 where you noticed some crosstalk or didn't you notice it in every single game you tried so far?
Hi Lohan,
If you look at this thread you'll see my results from the numbers test and a simple black/white test.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2469729-oled-crosstalk-using-passive-3d.html
In short, I think a certain level of crosstalk seems normal with these displays. As with any other display tech (DLP/HMD excepted) you are only ever going to see it in high contrast scenes. The potential is always there, but sometimes you'll see it, sometimes you won't.
I have the curved 960V version by the way, and I stressed for weeks over the same issue. I posted many times on here and on avforums and avsforms but it's really difficult to get anyone to actually bother to run any tests.
I think they're all just paranoid that they might uncover something new to worry about, as they seem to spend all their time poring over still images in order to identify any possible imperfections.
If the FPR is misaligned I think you'll see really bad ghosting and/or ghosting in certain places on the screen, so I don't think that's an issue with yours or mine but I'm no expert.
I'm keeping mine, it's an awesome display and I'll just have to wait a few more years for when someone finally makes a 'perfect' tv ;-)
In short, I think a certain level of crosstalk seems normal with these displays. As with any other display tech (DLP/HMD excepted) you are only ever going to see it in high contrast scenes. The potential is always there, but sometimes you'll see it, sometimes you won't.
I have the curved 960V version by the way, and I stressed for weeks over the same issue. I posted many times on here and on avforums and avsforms but it's really difficult to get anyone to actually bother to run any tests.
I think they're all just paranoid that they might uncover something new to worry about, as they seem to spend all their time poring over still images in order to identify any possible imperfections.
If the FPR is misaligned I think you'll see really bad ghosting and/or ghosting in certain places on the screen, so I don't think that's an issue with yours or mine but I'm no expert.
I'm keeping mine, it's an awesome display and I'll just have to wait a few more years for when someone finally makes a 'perfect' tv ;-)
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The topic itself is very hard to discuss because it has so much to do with subjective perception which could lead to misunderstanding. So someone who identifies the slightest bit of ghosting on his TV may raise the alarm and may ask on the forum how other users (maybe owners of the exact same TV-model) perceive ghosting on their TV. Maybe someone answers who is not very sensitive about ghosting and tells him, that his TV doesn't show any crosstalk at all (although this perception may be more due to the fact that he is just not very sensitive to crosstalk). In the end the guy who initially asked the question may consider to return the TV because he is now of the opinion that he has a faulty TV.
I am exactly in this situation now. I got my LG OLED 55EF950v (55EF9500 in the US) last week and after some problems getting it to run 3D Vision in 4K (solution was that you have to set the TV's aspect ratio to "Just Scan" and not "16:9") I am loving it more than words can describe. But just like some of you may know it's those things we like the most were we're also looking for the fly in the ointment the most. I noticed that most of the guys here who already own a passive OLED 4K TV asked at one point if the crosstalk/ghosting they witnessed on their TV is just normal or if it could be a faulty TV.
And somehow this question has not been answered until now (as I said I know this one is hard to answer).
Since the problem lies in the subjective perception of crosstalk/ghosting you never know if someone's perception differs from your own because he is just more or less sensitive to crosstalk/ghosting or because the TVs really are different in this regard.
What can be done here at this point is a discussion about something that can be named or with the help of a screenshot even be clearly shown. So if someone knows exactly what he has to look for it's easier to concentrate on that and get an own perception.
In my case I have the strong feeling that my experiences with DOOM somehow tainted my perception. Playing Doom I definitely notice some ghosting with the LG OLED 4K that I don't notice with my old Samsung 2233rz or even my 65" 1080p LG passive LED TV.
At the same time I don't see any significant ghosting in other games. Looking at my 3D Vision screenshots from a variety of games I also mostly don't notice any ghosting. But you know how it is: if you saw it once and it even wasn't there on another display your perception is just tainted. Add to that the 14-day returning period (which I am still in for another week)and you know what my problem is:
I suspect that my TV is totally ok but I am just not sure. And since this baby is so great otherwise I just want to be sure that it performs as it should. And judging from all the LG OLED owners here I can see that I am not alone with this burning question.
So let me start with my perception:
1. Nvidia Test application (yes it does also run using Windows 10, just make sure to turn off Antialiasing before launching the app).
Everything looks fine here. But really focussing on crosstalk I notice ghosting especially when the Nvidia eye is protruding from the screen and is floating in front of you. As I said it's definitely minor ghosting but it is there. Also those metal bars at the top of the screen have some crosstalk on one side.
2. Doom
Here I can provide you with a little bit more since I took some photos that show very clearly the ghosting that I noticed with my TV. It would be awesome if one of the owners of an LG OLED 4K passive could compare these photos with his personal perception. (in case you still have the game installed of course).
I took those photos from the very beginning of the FOUNDRY-chapter (Chapter 3). You just have to select the chapter and when the game begins turn left to see the monitor and the barrels.
The figurines are even better suited for this test as these are high contrast scenes where the figurine is surrounded by total darkness. You can find those under the "collectibles"-tab in Doom. Just zoom in and out because dependent on your depth/convergence settings you can always zoom it so you don't see any crosstalk but when zooming in a little more the ghosting should definitely appear.
I really can't imagine someone who doesn't notice significant ghosting here when zooming-in to the max.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/943900/3d-vision/search-information-about-edid-for-3dvision-on-lg-oled-4k-55ef950v-55ef9500-/5/
Posting #72
3. Dugom's Rabbid-test pattern for Crosstalk/Ghosting
The test pattern consists of 8 pictures. I took a photo of every test-picture through the "odd" lens so you can see my results and compare them to your own results.
This test may be the most comparable one since it's very easy to do and very easy to compare with other user's results.
The rabbid-test pictures can be downloaded here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0a31apal651bfjo
And here is the original video (including instructions in the video-description on youtube):
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You need to download Dugam's tests and run them via Nvidia's viewer. he has the link below the video.
I still have 6 days left to return my OLED 4K-TV (LG 55EF9500/55EF950v) so somehow I need to know if the crosstalk/ghosting I notice when using my TV in 4K 3D Vision (using EDID override) is just normal or rather indicates a faulty TV.
So I am trying to sum-up everything here that characterizes the crosstalk that I am able to notice on my TV and I would be very grateful if someone or even better some of you who also own this TV or a similar LG OLED 4K TV could answer these questions that I am raising here based on personal experience with this TV.
Based on the answers I should be able to finally make a decision (keeping the TV because it seems to run just normal or give it back because it seems I have a faulty one).
I should add that I absolutely love this TV and every game that I tried so far was stunningly awesome. But I need to know about th crosstalk. I should also add that I am playing with 100% depth and high convergence as high depth/convergence-settings seem to have an impact on the crosstalk-matter.
1. I have tried different games and some of them are showing no crosstalk. That said I also tried Doom and WWE 2K16 where I was able to notice some ghosting (especially in high contrast scenes where you are looking at some kind of light-source or bright object next to a dark object). I would like to know if you also noticed significant crosstalk in some games (especially games with high contrast scenes) while not seeing it in other games or if there really is an owner here how claims that he didn't notice any ghosting with his TV in all the games he has tried so far or at least only noticed ghosting so insignificant that you would never be able to notice it if you are not focussing on it. If you also noticed crosstalk can you shortly describe it. In my case the crosstalk can be seen to the left and the right of a specific object (by far not as solid as the actual object but if looking very closely definitely noticeable).
2. When I considered buying the TV Whyme told me that "you could loose the 3D at the edges" and that seems exactly to describe my next finding. Again I will refer to Doom because it is here where I noticed it.
When looking at an object at the top of the screen and putting the camera to show it in the center of the screen everything looks alright. But when putting the camera-view down so the object slowly "goes up" on my screen the ghosting appears when the object reaches near the top of my screen. So an object that was shown solid and crosstalk-free is showing some crosstalk when putting it at the top of the screen while still concentrating in the center of the screen and just looking at it with your peripheral vision.
Can you confirm that there is some crosstalk involved here at the edges of the screen or are you not able to notice any crosstalk at all in these situations?
3. Directly connected to the previous question. The sweetspot for 3D seems to be very narrow with this TV. So if I tilt my head up and down I can see the crosstalk being influenced heavily. It's definitely more significant than on my LG 60 LED 3D TV where I can tilt my head up and down without noticing any serious impact on crosstalk.
Can you confirm the narrow 3D sweet-spot with this TV or can you tilt your head up and down without noticing any significant impact on crosstalk?
4. When doing Dugom's rabbid-crosstalk-test I have absolutely no problem seeing the rabbid in the "darker" pictures while in the brighter pictures the rabbid is only barely visible. It looks a little bit like a water-mark to me (just have a look at my test-results in posting #1 of this thread).
I guess there is no owner of this TV here who can claim that he isn't able to see the bunny in all the test-pictures but I would like to know if there is an owner here who can claim that he is absolutely not able to see the bunny at all in one of the bright test-images.
It would be super awesome if you guys who also own this TV or a similar LG OLED 4K model could answer these 4 questions based on your own experience so I in return can base my decision (keeping it or send it back) on your personal findings.
I'm surprised that you have more ghosting with the oled tv...
I had a faulty 3D tv, I send it back,the passive filter was faulty so I had ghosting on different part of the screen near the middle and on the down right...
The new oneI received I'd almost perfect
Now for the high contrast tbrightscene, I definitely have more hosting than my previous 27" Asus vg278h. For examples the middle line of the road in gta5, lights in The Park, computer in Soma etc
In general, cinematics with contrast between faces or hair...
Now I live with that because the experience is better on 4k 49" than fhd 27" ;)
I think it's the limit of passive 3D
Head tilts generates ghosting
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR
So you have any example of ghosting with your 60 lg fhd
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR
Do you have any example of ghosting with your 60 lg fhd?
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR
In your ghosting testing, are the display brightness values comparable (that is, actual room brightness levels)?
@whyme
Good point. I should check on the picture settings of the 60" fHD to verify that results are comparable. But then how comparable are the picture settings of an LED fHD to the picture settings of an OLED 4K?
What really bothers me is the fact that with a passive TV it is recommended to have the eyes set on TV's center level with a tendency to the lower portion of the screen. This is exactly how I position myself in front of the OLED.
My passive fHD LED is sitting on a low TV stand while I am sitting on a sofa. So my eyes are way above center-level but this 60 fHD TV has close to no crosstalk at all and even tilting my head up and down doesn't change that!
Edit:
Just found a cnet-Review for the LG EG9600 that exactly confirms what was said above. I'll paste the important part here:
Unfortunately 3D on the EG9600 is finicky: it's highly dependent on viewing distance and angle, and if you sit too close or view the screen from too high or too low then crosstalk--that ghostly double image that's the bugaboo of stereoscopic 3D--can be very obvious. I found it much easier to "see" such crosstalk on the EG9600 than on other TVs I've reviewed that use passive 3D, and in fact lack of crosstalk is one of the big advantages passive typically enjoys over active. Not so on the EG9600, at least from too close."
Crosstalk to me is the Stereoscopic exclusive problem where a portion of the image from the images eye bleeds over into the other eye.
Ghosting is similar but pretty different as it can happen in 2d and is generally associated with screens over 4ms response time. Where the previous image can clearly be seen in the picture. Image burn in can also cause this.
My new monitor is prone to Crosstalk more than my previous one. (Asus VG248QE )
It is very much game specific but generally appears in high contrast situations.
For example GTA5 has awful cross-talk on my monitor particularly on scenes in day time with telephone poles against the sky.
However I get none in Doom, none in Dark Souls and only a very small amount (again with trees against the day time sky) in Witcher 3. In TW3 it not always either it depends on the tone of the sky lightning at the time.
I never had ghosting on either screen (both 1ms response)
I wonder is higher resolution has something to do with it, after comparing my 1080p screen to my 1440p one and doing some research into why this happens...
I've basically resigned to live with it at this point and can deal with it for the most part. Correct Monitor calibration and lower contrast (or really high) appears to mitigate it.
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I really don't know what to do now. I just checked a LG 4K 3D Demo video on Youtube and everything just looked absolutely beautiful. I could tilt my head without loosing the sweetspot and I wasn't able to notice the slightest bit of Crosstalk even when pausing the video every 5-10 seconds. So I could assume that everything is absolutely ok with my TV but still I am not sure.
@whyme (and every other LG OLED 4K TV owner)
I'll attach a simple picture, known as the "numbers test". You just need to open the picture and set the TV to 3D SBS. Maybe you can tell me how visible the numbers still are for you when looking at them through the "odd eye". Since you use the same distance from TV as me (4 feet) results should be quite comparable.
Also Whyme did you play any game so far using the EF9500 where you noticed some crosstalk or didn't you notice it in every single game you tried so far?
If you look at this thread you'll see my results from the numbers test and a simple black/white test.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2469729-oled-crosstalk-using-passive-3d.html
In short, I think a certain level of crosstalk seems normal with these displays. As with any other display tech (DLP/HMD excepted) you are only ever going to see it in high contrast scenes. The potential is always there, but sometimes you'll see it, sometimes you won't.
I have the curved 960V version by the way, and I stressed for weeks over the same issue. I posted many times on here and on avforums and avsforms but it's really difficult to get anyone to actually bother to run any tests.
I think they're all just paranoid that they might uncover something new to worry about, as they seem to spend all their time poring over still images in order to identify any possible imperfections.
If the FPR is misaligned I think you'll see really bad ghosting and/or ghosting in certain places on the screen, so I don't think that's an issue with yours or mine but I'm no expert.
I'm keeping mine, it's an awesome display and I'll just have to wait a few more years for when someone finally makes a 'perfect' tv ;-)
GTX 1070 SLI, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310