Can you view a 27" monitor up close comfortably?
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Q for 27" owners: Someone on a forum once spouted out that headaches and eye strain in 3D were due, or in large part due to your brain thinking its viewing something in the distance, while your eyes are focused on the nearby screen. Thus a mismatch. So do any of you 27"ers use your monitor up VERY close to get a wider FoV? I'm considering moving to a 27" however, but only if i can use it up close to me for a bigger field of view, say 1.5 ft/.5 meters or less.

I just went into a Fry's electronics store yesterday and was looking at a row of monitors, thinking, "they should really update the size of these things, these 17" monitors are just not enough!". Turns out they were 24" monitors that i thought were 17"s due to using a 46" 3DTV for so long.
Q for 27" owners: Someone on a forum once spouted out that headaches and eye strain in 3D were due, or in large part due to your brain thinking its viewing something in the distance, while your eyes are focused on the nearby screen. Thus a mismatch. So do any of you 27"ers use your monitor up VERY close to get a wider FoV? I'm considering moving to a 27" however, but only if i can use it up close to me for a bigger field of view, say 1.5 ft/.5 meters or less.



I just went into a Fry's electronics store yesterday and was looking at a row of monitors, thinking, "they should really update the size of these things, these 17" monitors are just not enough!". Turns out they were 24" monitors that i thought were 17"s due to using a 46" 3DTV for so long.

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#1
Posted 02/02/2012 09:47 PM   
I got the ASUS VG278h (27-inch) 2 days ago and spent a large portion of yesterday playing games on it (Witcher 2, Resident Evil 5, Trine) for extended periods of time with no headaches or discomfort.

I sit with the screen about 0.5m from my eyes and using about 50% stereoscopic strength in the Nvidia control panel.

I should note however that I never get headaches from 3D cinemas or the Nintendo 3DS either, while I know some people do. It would be a person-to-person thing, but I think 27-inch is the sweet spot, dominating your vision while still appearing sharp and detailed.
I got the ASUS VG278h (27-inch) 2 days ago and spent a large portion of yesterday playing games on it (Witcher 2, Resident Evil 5, Trine) for extended periods of time with no headaches or discomfort.



I sit with the screen about 0.5m from my eyes and using about 50% stereoscopic strength in the Nvidia control panel.



I should note however that I never get headaches from 3D cinemas or the Nintendo 3DS either, while I know some people do. It would be a person-to-person thing, but I think 27-inch is the sweet spot, dominating your vision while still appearing sharp and detailed.

#2
Posted 02/03/2012 12:07 AM   
I agree with what AXiDER says. It probably varies greatly from person to person how close you can keep your monitor.

I would think that the size of the monitor does not matter that much on getting headaches or eyestrain, just the distance. If you can comfortably view a 24" monitor from 0.5m distance, I am sure you can do the same with 27" monitor.

Your eye sight would probably greatly affect how close you want to keep the monitor. Having a 27" monitor 0.5m from your face would show every single pixel very clearly if you have good eye-sight. Because of that, you probably would want to use as high Anti-Aliasing setting as possible in games to reduce the stair-stepping effect.

I used to have 28" monitor which ran at 1920 x 1200 and I kept it at about 0.75cm from my face and even at that distance running games without AA drove me crazy. Now I have 24" 1080p (3D) monitor and I moved it about 5cm closer and AA is not so important any more since I cannot see the individual pixels so well any more. I still prefer AA, though, it just isn't as mandatory as before.

I also sometimes move my face really close to the monitor to get better immersion effect. For example running around in Skyrim in 1st person view with my face 30cm from the monitor gives great immersion (especially in 3D!). I never get any headache or eyestrain doing that either, but then again, I probably have never tried it for longer than 10-15 minutes at a time.
I agree with what AXiDER says. It probably varies greatly from person to person how close you can keep your monitor.



I would think that the size of the monitor does not matter that much on getting headaches or eyestrain, just the distance. If you can comfortably view a 24" monitor from 0.5m distance, I am sure you can do the same with 27" monitor.



Your eye sight would probably greatly affect how close you want to keep the monitor. Having a 27" monitor 0.5m from your face would show every single pixel very clearly if you have good eye-sight. Because of that, you probably would want to use as high Anti-Aliasing setting as possible in games to reduce the stair-stepping effect.



I used to have 28" monitor which ran at 1920 x 1200 and I kept it at about 0.75cm from my face and even at that distance running games without AA drove me crazy. Now I have 24" 1080p (3D) monitor and I moved it about 5cm closer and AA is not so important any more since I cannot see the individual pixels so well any more. I still prefer AA, though, it just isn't as mandatory as before.



I also sometimes move my face really close to the monitor to get better immersion effect. For example running around in Skyrim in 1st person view with my face 30cm from the monitor gives great immersion (especially in 3D!). I never get any headache or eyestrain doing that either, but then again, I probably have never tried it for longer than 10-15 minutes at a time.

#3
Posted 02/03/2012 12:35 AM   
I have the ASUS VG278H as well and upgraded from 3 AW2310's and I love it. Seems like the more I turn up the convergence, the more it strains my eyes, so I adjust it to the point where the images are jumping out of the screen but not so much that it hurts my eyes. I sit about 2.5 feet away from the monitor and don't have any issues. I have been 3D gaming for over a year though, so my eyes are used to it.
I have the ASUS VG278H as well and upgraded from 3 AW2310's and I love it. Seems like the more I turn up the convergence, the more it strains my eyes, so I adjust it to the point where the images are jumping out of the screen but not so much that it hurts my eyes. I sit about 2.5 feet away from the monitor and don't have any issues. I have been 3D gaming for over a year though, so my eyes are used to it.

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#4
Posted 02/03/2012 06:58 PM   
Size of the monitor is not directly connected to eyestrain. The stereosettings however are more important on a big screen. The gain in immersion of using a big screen compensates for that more than well enough. I use a 100" screen at a 3 metre distance (appr 9-10 feet) without problems.
Size of the monitor is not directly connected to eyestrain. The stereosettings however are more important on a big screen. The gain in immersion of using a big screen compensates for that more than well enough. I use a 100" screen at a 3 metre distance (appr 9-10 feet) without problems.

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#5
Posted 02/03/2012 08:41 PM   
Thanks for all the input. I have a feeling it will be fine. I regularly sit up and bring my eyes much closer to the screen and it feels just fine.

I pulled out a tape measure, with a 27" monitor, to get the same FoV i have with my 46", I wold have to have it 1.5ft from my eyes. Thats measured while sitting back in my chair. Which brings the screen of the monitor over my keyboard when im sitting comfortably. I could not even lean the keyboard up against the circular stand, i wouldn't have enough room. I'd have to rig up some kind of arm.

[quote name='Likay' date='03 February 2012 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1328301685' post='1364837']
Size of the monitor is not directly connected to eyestrain. The stereosettings however are more important on a big screen. The gain in immersion of using a big screen compensates for that more than well enough. I use a 100" screen at a 3 metre distance (appr 9-10 feet) without problems.
[/quote]I think we have a similar FoV, since i sit just under a meter away from my 46". I'm worried about going closer for extended periods of time though. I totally agree about the FoV. My FoV is slightly higher than yours i think, will you be considering an LCD when they come out with 1080p60 3DTVs?
Thanks for all the input. I have a feeling it will be fine. I regularly sit up and bring my eyes much closer to the screen and it feels just fine.



I pulled out a tape measure, with a 27" monitor, to get the same FoV i have with my 46", I wold have to have it 1.5ft from my eyes. Thats measured while sitting back in my chair. Which brings the screen of the monitor over my keyboard when im sitting comfortably. I could not even lean the keyboard up against the circular stand, i wouldn't have enough room. I'd have to rig up some kind of arm.



[quote name='Likay' date='03 February 2012 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1328301685' post='1364837']

Size of the monitor is not directly connected to eyestrain. The stereosettings however are more important on a big screen. The gain in immersion of using a big screen compensates for that more than well enough. I use a 100" screen at a 3 metre distance (appr 9-10 feet) without problems.

I think we have a similar FoV, since i sit just under a meter away from my 46". I'm worried about going closer for extended periods of time though. I totally agree about the FoV. My FoV is slightly higher than yours i think, will you be considering an LCD when they come out with 1080p60 3DTVs?

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#6
Posted 02/03/2012 09:58 PM   
I had a 32 inch LCD TV 2 feet from my face before I switched over to my 27 inch 3d monitor. I found I just had to lower the light considerably and adjust the tone of the whites because webpages would kill my eyes with the intensity of the brightness. But with a 27 inch I don't have to do anything but worry about getting the best picture. But the amount of light increases my wifes chance of getting migraines. She sticks with her 24 inch.
I had a 32 inch LCD TV 2 feet from my face before I switched over to my 27 inch 3d monitor. I found I just had to lower the light considerably and adjust the tone of the whites because webpages would kill my eyes with the intensity of the brightness. But with a 27 inch I don't have to do anything but worry about getting the best picture. But the amount of light increases my wifes chance of getting migraines. She sticks with her 24 inch.

#7
Posted 02/04/2012 02:21 PM   
The only issues I would say to look out for when viewing these panels at very close proximity is the same with most TN panels:

1) The closer you are, the more suspect you will be to noticing the individual pixels and in my case, even the RGB sub-pixels. This will depend from monitor to monitor, but on mine I can very clearly see the differences in color uniformity because of the sub-pixels at close distances. This is only really an issue in 2D on a blank background like typing this. In gaming its a non-issue.

2) You are also more susceptible to differences in color uniformity and viewing angles at very close distances, but again, this is more an issue with 2D/text rather than gaming and similar with any TN panel.

It sounds like you'll be taking care of the bigger problem by using an actuating arm mount, as generally having a panel that close to your face while sitting/relaxing comfortably means you need to have the panel in your lap, or you're reclined under a desk/table. Overall though given the dissatisfaction you've described with your HDTV this 1080p solution is a good one. Even if HDMI 1.4a moves the spec for 3D, it will take some time for the HDTV makers to catch up and when they do, that'll jack the prices back up for the first few models that support the higher 3D spec. Right now I believe the "Fast" HDMI 1.4a only adds official 1080p/30 and SBS-Half support to the spec. Still no mention of 1080p/60 or beyond.

Keep in mind however, moving to 1080p will also incur an increase in performance requirements to maintain similar framerates to what you were getting at 720p. 1080p is roughly 2x the pixels before considering any increases in VRAM, so you'll need roughly 2x the GPU horsepower you have now to maintain similar FPS.
The only issues I would say to look out for when viewing these panels at very close proximity is the same with most TN panels:



1) The closer you are, the more suspect you will be to noticing the individual pixels and in my case, even the RGB sub-pixels. This will depend from monitor to monitor, but on mine I can very clearly see the differences in color uniformity because of the sub-pixels at close distances. This is only really an issue in 2D on a blank background like typing this. In gaming its a non-issue.



2) You are also more susceptible to differences in color uniformity and viewing angles at very close distances, but again, this is more an issue with 2D/text rather than gaming and similar with any TN panel.



It sounds like you'll be taking care of the bigger problem by using an actuating arm mount, as generally having a panel that close to your face while sitting/relaxing comfortably means you need to have the panel in your lap, or you're reclined under a desk/table. Overall though given the dissatisfaction you've described with your HDTV this 1080p solution is a good one. Even if HDMI 1.4a moves the spec for 3D, it will take some time for the HDTV makers to catch up and when they do, that'll jack the prices back up for the first few models that support the higher 3D spec. Right now I believe the "Fast" HDMI 1.4a only adds official 1080p/30 and SBS-Half support to the spec. Still no mention of 1080p/60 or beyond.



Keep in mind however, moving to 1080p will also incur an increase in performance requirements to maintain similar framerates to what you were getting at 720p. 1080p is roughly 2x the pixels before considering any increases in VRAM, so you'll need roughly 2x the GPU horsepower you have now to maintain similar FPS.

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#8
Posted 02/04/2012 04:58 PM   
My current viewing distance to my 23.6" is 60cm reducing that distance to 45cm is the equivalent of using a larger 31.5" monitor at 60cm and since I have glasses I think it will be too close for comfort.

viewing angles
23.6" at 60cm = 46.4 deg
27" at 60cm = 52.2 deg
23.6 at 45cm = 59.5 deg
27" at 45cm = 66.3 deg
My current viewing distance to my 23.6" is 60cm reducing that distance to 45cm is the equivalent of using a larger 31.5" monitor at 60cm and since I have glasses I think it will be too close for comfort.



viewing angles

23.6" at 60cm = 46.4 deg

27" at 60cm = 52.2 deg

23.6 at 45cm = 59.5 deg

27" at 45cm = 66.3 deg

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#9
Posted 02/04/2012 08:17 PM   
I game on the Acer 27" 3D monitor, at a distance of 700mm-900mm, and at an average depth of 50%.

My eye comfort depends on how much sleep I have had, how refreshed I feel, and the of course the depth of the picture... Often I find low depths are LESS comfortable than 50% for instance.
I game on the Acer 27" 3D monitor, at a distance of 700mm-900mm, and at an average depth of 50%.



My eye comfort depends on how much sleep I have had, how refreshed I feel, and the of course the depth of the picture... Often I find low depths are LESS comfortable than 50% for instance.

#10
Posted 02/05/2012 10:36 PM   
Yes.

With my 27" Asus, 3D or not it looks fantastic and really brings the game out to view without the need to sit closer. The larger size over my 21" before it, allows me to sit back and enjoy the game instead of the old sitting hunched forward to read text and whatnot.

Now I would agree that at a certain size, there might be a point where it is too big in the you have to physically move you head around to see things at different parts of the screen, and 1080P does not look as good on a 42" as it does on a 27" (or even 21" etc) but at the same time, immersion levels do go up the bigger the screen gets (or the more you have) so really it does come down to personal preference. Someday I do hope to have a surround setup, but for right not I don't have the room, nor care to spend the cash right now.
Yes.



With my 27" Asus, 3D or not it looks fantastic and really brings the game out to view without the need to sit closer. The larger size over my 21" before it, allows me to sit back and enjoy the game instead of the old sitting hunched forward to read text and whatnot.



Now I would agree that at a certain size, there might be a point where it is too big in the you have to physically move you head around to see things at different parts of the screen, and 1080P does not look as good on a 42" as it does on a 27" (or even 21" etc) but at the same time, immersion levels do go up the bigger the screen gets (or the more you have) so really it does come down to personal preference. Someday I do hope to have a surround setup, but for right not I don't have the room, nor care to spend the cash right now.

#11
Posted 02/06/2012 06:00 PM   
I have a feeling 1.5ft is a lot shorter than some of you think. Measured from your eyes while sitting back in your chair.
I have a feeling 1.5ft is a lot shorter than some of you think. Measured from your eyes while sitting back in your chair.

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#12
Posted 02/06/2012 06:11 PM   
27" seems the ideal desktop size for me. I can enjoy movies properly with it too.

I think now about the distance I game in 3D from it, and actually, I notice that I tend to lean forward, and move in closer than my normal "800mm" position, when I'm really getting into it. This might suggest that a larger screen IS better than 27" for 3D... Because obviously, in 3D, your not actually focused on the screen's surface, often far behind it. So moving closer presumably doesn't affect eye-strain, because you are [i]less cross-eyed[/i] than you would be if gaming in 2D !!

I can't quite make sense of whether it does make a difference to use a smaller screen, and sit closer, other than for seating position, and chair confort, speaker positioning etc.
27" seems the ideal desktop size for me. I can enjoy movies properly with it too.



I think now about the distance I game in 3D from it, and actually, I notice that I tend to lean forward, and move in closer than my normal "800mm" position, when I'm really getting into it. This might suggest that a larger screen IS better than 27" for 3D... Because obviously, in 3D, your not actually focused on the screen's surface, often far behind it. So moving closer presumably doesn't affect eye-strain, because you are less cross-eyed than you would be if gaming in 2D !!



I can't quite make sense of whether it does make a difference to use a smaller screen, and sit closer, other than for seating position, and chair confort, speaker positioning etc.

#13
Posted 02/06/2012 06:26 PM   
[quote]So moving closer presumably doesn't affect eye-strain, because you are [i]less cross-eyed[/i] than you would be if gaming in 2D !![/quote]

The eye focuses on whatever distance your subject is at. So even if your looking at a mountain in the distance in Skyrim, your eye lenses are still focused on your monitor. You can see this happening by closing one eye, then putting your finger out in front of you and lining it up with someone in the distance, then focus on your finger then the thing in the distance, noting that the other is blurry. It is this discrepancy that was said to cause the majority of eye strain, which i think was bullocks really, but it was worth creating a thread over to see what overs thought.
So moving closer presumably doesn't affect eye-strain, because you are less cross-eyed than you would be if gaming in 2D !!




The eye focuses on whatever distance your subject is at. So even if your looking at a mountain in the distance in Skyrim, your eye lenses are still focused on your monitor. You can see this happening by closing one eye, then putting your finger out in front of you and lining it up with someone in the distance, then focus on your finger then the thing in the distance, noting that the other is blurry. It is this discrepancy that was said to cause the majority of eye strain, which i think was bullocks really, but it was worth creating a thread over to see what overs thought.

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#14
Posted 02/07/2012 04:51 PM   
I felt personally that any discomfort was caused by the peripheral vision, which is a different depth to that of the monitor, so that the sides of the eye are most likely to feel discomfort, if any.
I felt personally that any discomfort was caused by the peripheral vision, which is a different depth to that of the monitor, so that the sides of the eye are most likely to feel discomfort, if any.

#15
Posted 02/07/2012 06:48 PM   
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