Bo3b's School For Shaderhackers
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@InsaneInGame: +1, just my opinion!
@InsaneInGame: +1, just my opinion!

My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!

Posted 09/06/2014 05:58 PM   
Hey bo3b, do you have any estimates as to when you'll get to 3DMigoto in your lessons? I'm finding it a pain to use it to fix new games as the previous fixing techniques applied all fail in any other dx11 games that I try. After hours and hours of trying I still can't fix a damn shadow in any new game.
Hey bo3b, do you have any estimates as to when you'll get to 3DMigoto in your lessons? I'm finding it a pain to use it to fix new games as the previous fixing techniques applied all fail in any other dx11 games that I try. After hours and hours of trying I still can't fix a damn shadow in any new game.

Posted 09/06/2014 06:44 PM   
There is no magic bullet to fixing lights and shadows. You need to learn what to look for and then work it out for each new game. Everytime.
There is no magic bullet to fixing lights and shadows. You need to learn what to look for and then work it out for each new game. Everytime.

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Posted 09/06/2014 06:49 PM   
[quote="mike_ar69"]There is no magic bullet to fixing lights and shadows. You need to learn what to look for and then work it out for each new game. Everytime.[/quote] So how would I go about learning that? There aren't much examples to learn from and I have no idea how the shader operates to know what to fix. How did you learn how to fix? Is your major related to coding?
mike_ar69 said:There is no magic bullet to fixing lights and shadows. You need to learn what to look for and then work it out for each new game. Everytime.

So how would I go about learning that? There aren't much examples to learn from and I have no idea how the shader operates to know what to fix.

How did you learn how to fix? Is your major related to coding?

Posted 09/06/2014 07:26 PM   
Its my preference right now to let bo3b's school progress at the pace it is and send *him* that information for later courses. I did post something in some thread recently to help address someones more advanced question though. I will send you a PM later with more information so as not to complicate this thread.
Its my preference right now to let bo3b's school progress at the pace it is and send *him* that information for later courses. I did post something in some thread recently to help address someones more advanced question though. I will send you a PM later with more information so as not to complicate this thread.

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Posted 09/06/2014 07:59 PM   
[quote="mike_ar69"]Its my preference right now to let bo3b's school progress at the pace it is and send *him* that information for later courses. I did post something in some thread recently to help address someones more advanced question though. I will send you a PM later with more information so as not to complicate this thread.[/quote] Ah alright. And I'm pretty sure the post you're referring to is the one regarding modifying the shadow from the camera perspective and not the world projection which was also my question.
mike_ar69 said:Its my preference right now to let bo3b's school progress at the pace it is and send *him* that information for later courses. I did post something in some thread recently to help address someones more advanced question though. I will send you a PM later with more information so as not to complicate this thread.

Ah alright. And I'm pretty sure the post you're referring to is the one regarding modifying the shadow from the camera perspective and not the world projection which was also my question.

Posted 09/06/2014 09:32 PM   
I know I was one of the ones that chimed in earlier about short videos ... never mind what I said, they're working out just fine the way they are. If class runs a bit longer than usual at times, no big deal. It's all very interesting stuff. What ever it takes to get the lesson across and yet still keep it as simple as possible for you to make. :)
I know I was one of the ones that chimed in earlier about short videos ... never mind what I said, they're working out just fine the way they are. If class runs a bit longer than usual at times, no big deal. It's all very interesting stuff. What ever it takes to get the lesson across and yet still keep it as simple as possible for you to make. :)
Posted 09/07/2014 03:00 AM   
Is there any trick to allow the mouse cursor depth to be adjusted when I can't find any pixel or vertex shaders for it? I saw a post mentioning Helix was able to insert a vertex shader before a pixel shader, but I don't have either to work with :( I've been looking at a few issues in The Book of Unwritten Tales 2 - https://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes/tree/master/BoUT2 . So far I've disabled the broken shadows and pushed the most of the UI depth back, but the mouse cursor eludes me...
Is there any trick to allow the mouse cursor depth to be adjusted when I can't find any pixel or vertex shaders for it? I saw a post mentioning Helix was able to insert a vertex shader before a pixel shader, but I don't have either to work with :(

I've been looking at a few issues in The Book of Unwritten Tales 2 - https://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes/tree/master/BoUT2 . So far I've disabled the broken shadows and pushed the most of the UI depth back, but the mouse cursor eludes me...

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Posted 09/07/2014 05:03 AM   
My preference is still for lessons to be kept a bit shorter. 5 minutes seems pretty unrealistic, but I can't always find the time to spend a full hour on the video + the time to do the lesson itself. That being said, I understand if it's necessary. I might just progress through a little slower than others, which is fine.
My preference is still for lessons to be kept a bit shorter. 5 minutes seems pretty unrealistic, but I can't always find the time to spend a full hour on the video + the time to do the lesson itself. That being said, I understand if it's necessary. I might just progress through a little slower than others, which is fine.

Posted 09/07/2014 10:36 AM   
Good, thanks for the feedback on the videos. I think I'll keep trying to keep them on the shorter, bite-size, size, as that will still work for people who can eat two chunks at a time. Having said that, the current one runs long, couldn't really figure out a good way to break it up. Sorry for being late on this one too, I felt it really needed more editing. -------------------------------------------- Next Lesson is up! Lesson 4 - [i]game fix[/i] In this one, we talk about how to fix an entire game, and one way to go about it. Good video on shader hunting and some anomalies you will likely run across. Also some good examples of mistakes that I left in, because they should help anyone who runs into them too.
Good, thanks for the feedback on the videos. I think I'll keep trying to keep them on the shorter, bite-size, size, as that will still work for people who can eat two chunks at a time.

Having said that, the current one runs long, couldn't really figure out a good way to break it up. Sorry for being late on this one too, I felt it really needed more editing.

--------------------------------------------
Next Lesson is up!

Lesson 4 - game fix

In this one, we talk about how to fix an entire game, and one way to go about it.

Good video on shader hunting and some anomalies you will likely run across. Also some good examples of mistakes that I left in, because they should help anyone who runs into them too.

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Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 09/07/2014 02:40 PM   
[quote="DarkStarSword"]Is there any trick to allow the mouse cursor depth to be adjusted when I can't find any pixel or vertex shaders for it? I saw a post mentioning Helix was able to insert a vertex shader before a pixel shader, but I don't have either to work with :([/quote] Not sure, tbh. I'm rarely able to find shaders for mouse cursors. Usually I'll compensate for 2d mouse cursor by having a custom convergence preset & just cycling the convergence up when I need it. We need to start petitioning developers to use software mouse cursors (instead of hardware cursors). I believe having a software cursor will also benefit people using VR. I could be wrong, though.
DarkStarSword said:Is there any trick to allow the mouse cursor depth to be adjusted when I can't find any pixel or vertex shaders for it? I saw a post mentioning Helix was able to insert a vertex shader before a pixel shader, but I don't have either to work with :(


Not sure, tbh. I'm rarely able to find shaders for mouse cursors. Usually I'll compensate for 2d mouse cursor by having a custom convergence preset & just cycling the convergence up when I need it.

We need to start petitioning developers to use software mouse cursors (instead of hardware cursors). I believe having a software cursor will also benefit people using VR. I could be wrong, though.

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Posted 09/08/2014 04:42 AM   
[quote="ForgottenProdigy"]Hey bo3b, do you have any estimates as to when you'll get to 3DMigoto in your lessons? I'm finding it a pain to use it to fix new games as the previous fixing techniques applied all fail in any other dx11 games that I try. After hours and hours of trying I still can't fix a damn shadow in any new game.[/quote]Not going to get to 3Dmigoto for awhile, at least until after we mostly hit HelixMod. The main reason is because nearly everyone who responded expressed interest in DX9 games, and I so I'm deferring to their interests. Naturally, I know quite a lot more about 3Dmigoto than Helixmod, but in general the principles are the same, just the syntax is different. As Mike noted for shadows, those are the very hardest things to fix in general. So hard in fact, that I personally have yet to successfully fix a shadow without help. I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the room, but I've been studying it for about a year now. For DX11 games, the techniques for shadows are also different, which is why the earlier examples are not as helpful. At present, you can look at the 4 or 5 DX11 games that Mike fixed for examples, but that's all we've got. Any given game that you look at may have a completely different approach to shadows.
ForgottenProdigy said:Hey bo3b, do you have any estimates as to when you'll get to 3DMigoto in your lessons? I'm finding it a pain to use it to fix new games as the previous fixing techniques applied all fail in any other dx11 games that I try. After hours and hours of trying I still can't fix a damn shadow in any new game.
Not going to get to 3Dmigoto for awhile, at least until after we mostly hit HelixMod. The main reason is because nearly everyone who responded expressed interest in DX9 games, and I so I'm deferring to their interests. Naturally, I know quite a lot more about 3Dmigoto than Helixmod, but in general the principles are the same, just the syntax is different.

As Mike noted for shadows, those are the very hardest things to fix in general. So hard in fact, that I personally have yet to successfully fix a shadow without help. I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the room, but I've been studying it for about a year now.

For DX11 games, the techniques for shadows are also different, which is why the earlier examples are not as helpful. At present, you can look at the 4 or 5 DX11 games that Mike fixed for examples, but that's all we've got. Any given game that you look at may have a completely different approach to shadows.

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GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 09/09/2014 10:39 AM   
Thank You for Your lesson, bo3b! I really had to learn "good working habits" ;) It is still a very satisfying experience to me that I can disable disturbing shaders in games. I started using 3DVision in the post "3DVsion and Helixmod ready era". I was used to ignore certain issues or was glad if I was able to turn off at least some of them in the options or ini files. So I only can shake my had in disbelief when people refuse to play a game until everything is fixed and they get exactly the same effects they have in 2D... I even tend to disable excessive post effects that work correctly in S3D in favor of a clear image (depth of field, blur, lens flares, grain filter, etc.).
Thank You for Your lesson, bo3b! I really had to learn "good working habits" ;) It is still a very satisfying experience to me that I can disable disturbing shaders in games. I started using 3DVision in the post "3DVsion and Helixmod ready era". I was used to ignore certain issues or was glad if I was able to turn off at least some of them in the options or ini files. So I only can shake my had in disbelief when people refuse to play a game until everything is fixed and they get exactly the same effects they have in 2D... I even tend to disable excessive post effects that work correctly in S3D in favor of a clear image (depth of field, blur, lens flares, grain filter, etc.).

My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!

Posted 09/09/2014 02:20 PM   
Man I can't wait to get back home and do the exercise. I've already finished it in my head, but the "proof of accomplishment" needs to be uploaded to the wiki page. hehe. ;) Thank you yet again Bo3b, for a very insightful and exciting lesson. I can't wait until lesson 5 is ready. I'm itching for more. :)
Man I can't wait to get back home and do the exercise. I've already finished it in my head, but the "proof of accomplishment" needs to be uploaded to the wiki page. hehe. ;) Thank you yet again Bo3b, for a very insightful and exciting lesson. I can't wait until lesson 5 is ready. I'm itching for more. :)

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Posted 09/09/2014 06:54 PM   
Time once again for a new Lesson! It's up! This one is Lesson 5 - experimentation. The basic idea is to demonstrate the role of experimenting (<cough> hacking) on shaders to figure out what pieces of the code affect which part of the image, and how you might disable just a sub-piece instead of the whole image. Since this ran long, I broke it into two parts that are independent. The first part is a short tour of 3D graphics themselves, and a demo of how shaders work so you can connect what you see on screen to what you see in shader code. I think you should all find this lesson particularly interesting.
Time once again for a new Lesson! It's up!

This one is Lesson 5 - experimentation.

The basic idea is to demonstrate the role of experimenting (<cough> hacking) on shaders to figure out what pieces of the code affect which part of the image, and how you might disable just a sub-piece instead of the whole image.

Since this ran long, I broke it into two parts that are independent. The first part is a short tour of 3D graphics themselves, and a demo of how shaders work so you can connect what you see on screen to what you see in shader code.

I think you should all find this lesson particularly interesting.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 09/14/2014 08:46 AM   
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