Decline of 3D Vision - Thought you all should know - Dark Times Ahead :(
13 / 14
I wonder if anyone has done a performance analysis on AMD GPUs vs Nvidia GPUs while using Tridef, I'd switch to AMD in a heartbeat if Tridef got the same framerates and had the same community supporters.
I wonder if anyone has done a performance analysis on AMD GPUs vs Nvidia GPUs while using Tridef, I'd switch to AMD in a heartbeat if Tridef got the same framerates and had the same community supporters.
I did a comparison of S3D on an AMD vs nVidia a long time back.
The results are here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4550
Unfortunately, the graph is no longer available but it worked just as well on both cards.
tridef is a different matter now as it doesn't support SLi so cannot compete on performance in that arena.
We've been discussing similar options over at the Tridef forums. A few ideas we've been kicking around are charging for profiles or a subscription service. S3D is amazing and it's disheartening to see how poorly the industry has handled it. PC 3D has gotten me back into gaming big time after growing increasing annoyed at the limitations of consoles.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?
We've been discussing similar options over at the Tridef forums. A few ideas we've been kicking around are charging for profiles or a subscription service. S3D is amazing and it's disheartening to see how poorly the industry has handled it. PC 3D has gotten me back into gaming big time after growing increasing annoyed at the limitations of consoles.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
[quote="ChronicHedgehog"]We've been discussing similar options over at the Tridef forums. A few ideas we've been kicking around are charging for profiles or a subscription service. S3D is amazing and it's disheartening to see how poorly the industry has handled it. PC 3D has gotten me back into gaming big time after growing increasing annoyed at the limitations of consoles.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?[/quote]Just my opinion, but I've always thought that Tridef's business model was all wrong. There aren't enough enthusiasts willing to pony up the money, and it doesn't produce a recurring cash flow to fund future game development. Getting all future fixes for a one-time fee makes no sense.
The right way to structure that would be to make the base driver available for say $10, and include a 'free' fixed game with that. Something interesting, maybe rotate it to the top AAA game as they come out.
Then, charge a fee for every game fix, something smallish, like $2 for each game fix.
You want to leverage the crowd that you have, and keep it in the impulse purchase range.
(But most importantly, get paid for future work, make it possible to have a future.)
I don't think a subscription approach is right for this, because then they get paid even if nothing comes out or it's terrible. That puts too much risk on the buyer. You need a system that motivates both the buyer and the creator.
ChronicHedgehog said:We've been discussing similar options over at the Tridef forums. A few ideas we've been kicking around are charging for profiles or a subscription service. S3D is amazing and it's disheartening to see how poorly the industry has handled it. PC 3D has gotten me back into gaming big time after growing increasing annoyed at the limitations of consoles.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?
Just my opinion, but I've always thought that Tridef's business model was all wrong. There aren't enough enthusiasts willing to pony up the money, and it doesn't produce a recurring cash flow to fund future game development. Getting all future fixes for a one-time fee makes no sense.
The right way to structure that would be to make the base driver available for say $10, and include a 'free' fixed game with that. Something interesting, maybe rotate it to the top AAA game as they come out.
Then, charge a fee for every game fix, something smallish, like $2 for each game fix.
You want to leverage the crowd that you have, and keep it in the impulse purchase range.
(But most importantly, get paid for future work, make it possible to have a future.)
I don't think a subscription approach is right for this, because then they get paid even if nothing comes out or it's terrible. That puts too much risk on the buyer. You need a system that motivates both the buyer and the creator.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="bo3b"]Just my opinion, but I've always thought that Tridef's business model was all wrong. There aren't enough enthusiasts willing to pony up the money, and it doesn't produce a recurring cash flow to fund future game development. Getting all future fixes for a one-time fee makes no sense.
The right way to structure that would be to make the base driver available for say $10, and include a 'free' fixed game with that. Something interesting, maybe rotate it to the top AAA game as they come out.
Then, charge a fee for every game fix, something smallish, like $2 for each game fix.
You want to leverage the crowd that you have, and keep it in the impulse purchase range.
(But most importantly, get paid for future work, make it possible to have a future.)
I don't think a subscription approach is right for this, because then they get paid even if nothing comes out or it's terrible. That puts too much risk on the buyer. You need a system that motivates both the buyer and the creator.[/quote]
I agree with this 100%, even if some of us are desperate enough to pay for a subscription. I would pay three dollars per profile from Nvidia or Tridef (I use both) without a thought.
It's hard to see what Tridef's long term goals were in regards to PC gaming. They were probably betting on at least three to four years of steady growth in the market and when that didn't happen…
Nvidia/AMD/Oculus/publishers could always contract Tridef directly to create 3D profiles, but there's not enough demand for any of this to happen. And we all know the sad situation with Helix.
bo3b said:Just my opinion, but I've always thought that Tridef's business model was all wrong. There aren't enough enthusiasts willing to pony up the money, and it doesn't produce a recurring cash flow to fund future game development. Getting all future fixes for a one-time fee makes no sense.
The right way to structure that would be to make the base driver available for say $10, and include a 'free' fixed game with that. Something interesting, maybe rotate it to the top AAA game as they come out.
Then, charge a fee for every game fix, something smallish, like $2 for each game fix.
You want to leverage the crowd that you have, and keep it in the impulse purchase range.
(But most importantly, get paid for future work, make it possible to have a future.)
I don't think a subscription approach is right for this, because then they get paid even if nothing comes out or it's terrible. That puts too much risk on the buyer. You need a system that motivates both the buyer and the creator.
I agree with this 100%, even if some of us are desperate enough to pay for a subscription. I would pay three dollars per profile from Nvidia or Tridef (I use both) without a thought.
It's hard to see what Tridef's long term goals were in regards to PC gaming. They were probably betting on at least three to four years of steady growth in the market and when that didn't happen…
Nvidia/AMD/Oculus/publishers could always contract Tridef directly to create 3D profiles, but there's not enough demand for any of this to happen. And we all know the sad situation with Helix.
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
[quote="vulcan78"][quote="ChronicHedgehog"]We've been discussing similar options over at the Tridef forums. A few ideas we've been kicking around are charging for profiles or a subscription service. S3D is amazing and it's disheartening to see how poorly the industry has handled it. PC 3D has gotten me back into gaming big time after growing increasing annoyed at the limitations of consoles.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?[/quote]
I hope Nvidia is reading this, hey Nvidia, WE PAID YOU FOR THIS TECH AND DEMAND ADEQUATE SUPPORT, IF THAT MEANS HIRING COMPETENT PROGRAMMERS SUCH AS HELIX AND CO. THEN THAT'S A PART OF THE FUCKING BARGAIN.
Seriously contemplating going AMD if 3D is better, PhysX has become an obscure gimmick (watch the fog move out of Batman's way in Batman: Arkham Origins! The only title in 2013 to offer PhysX!!).
Please someone tweet the above to the morons at Nvidia. [/quote]
Why don't you tweet the above? Or better yet why not word your post in a reasonable manner?
This is not the way to try and get NVidia to improve their support, and this is not the way we do business on the forum.
I'm sorry but I'm more annoyed about your post right now than the state of NVidia 3D.
ChronicHedgehog said:We've been discussing similar options over at the Tridef forums. A few ideas we've been kicking around are charging for profiles or a subscription service. S3D is amazing and it's disheartening to see how poorly the industry has handled it. PC 3D has gotten me back into gaming big time after growing increasing annoyed at the limitations of consoles.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?
I hope Nvidia is reading this, hey Nvidia, WE PAID YOU FOR THIS TECH AND DEMAND ADEQUATE SUPPORT, IF THAT MEANS HIRING COMPETENT PROGRAMMERS SUCH AS HELIX AND CO. THEN THAT'S A PART OF THE FUCKING BARGAIN.
Seriously contemplating going AMD if 3D is better, PhysX has become an obscure gimmick (watch the fog move out of Batman's way in Batman: Arkham Origins! The only title in 2013 to offer PhysX!!).
Please someone tweet the above to the morons at Nvidia.
Why don't you tweet the above? Or better yet why not word your post in a reasonable manner?
This is not the way to try and get NVidia to improve their support, and this is not the way we do business on the forum.
I'm sorry but I'm more annoyed about your post right now than the state of NVidia 3D.
NVidia in my eyes has done something with 3D compatibility mode no it not greatest but it works and games like Sniper Elite look great.
Maybe for legal reasons NVidia can not create patches .
Only gripe is with sponsor games should use all NVidia Tech (3d vision, multi monitor support and DSR etc.) not just a subset of features.
Vulcan78, the fact is shaming companies usually doesn't work. Most people consider themselves well meaning (even when they're not) and the tone and language employed in your post simply puts them on the defensive. This makes it more likely they'll minimize or dismiss your concerns even when they're sympathetic. It's probably okay on the forum, but real bad on social media platforms like twitter. They're more afraid of calm professional types who clearly state facts and concerns and are able to see through Company speak.
As you pointed out, money is the big talker here and AMD isn't any better. I wish there was a third company to shake things up, say Intel or Samsung.
Vulcan78, the fact is shaming companies usually doesn't work. Most people consider themselves well meaning (even when they're not) and the tone and language employed in your post simply puts them on the defensive. This makes it more likely they'll minimize or dismiss your concerns even when they're sympathetic. It's probably okay on the forum, but real bad on social media platforms like twitter. They're more afraid of calm professional types who clearly state facts and concerns and are able to see through Company speak.
As you pointed out, money is the big talker here and AMD isn't any better. I wish there was a third company to shake things up, say Intel or Samsung.
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
[quote="ChronicHedgehog"]Vulcan78, the fact is shaming companies usually doesn't work. Most people consider themselves well meaning (even when they're not) and the tone and language employed in your post simply puts them on the defensive. This makes it more likely they'll minimize or dismiss your concerns even when they're sympathetic. It's probably okay on the forum, but real bad on social media platforms like twitter. They're more afraid of calm professional types who clearly state facts and concerns and are able to see through Company speak.
As you pointed out, money is the big talker here and AMD isn't any better. I wish there was a third company to shake things up, say Intel or Samsung.[/quote]
Great post.
ChronicHedgehog said:Vulcan78, the fact is shaming companies usually doesn't work. Most people consider themselves well meaning (even when they're not) and the tone and language employed in your post simply puts them on the defensive. This makes it more likely they'll minimize or dismiss your concerns even when they're sympathetic. It's probably okay on the forum, but real bad on social media platforms like twitter. They're more afraid of calm professional types who clearly state facts and concerns and are able to see through Company speak.
As you pointed out, money is the big talker here and AMD isn't any better. I wish there was a third company to shake things up, say Intel or Samsung.
One question, is nVidia still charging an expensive price for their 3D software? How can they basically "abandon" something they are still charging for?
One question, is nVidia still charging an expensive price for their 3D software? How can they basically "abandon" something they are still charging for?
[quote="Flugan"]This makes me feel like going out of retirement. My goal is to start learning shader fixes but I would really like to collaborate regularly with someone and Learning the art of shader fixes together. I'm less inclined to work alone without anyone to talk to. I expect to begin small. Anyone interested?[/quote]
+1 count me in. My experience is somewhat limited in the 3D aspect of things but that's never prohibited me from learning previously. I'd like to point out that if there is to be a collaberation of people to help continue serving the community, then there needs to be a solid form of communication amongst those individuals.
Thanks to those who've helped make 3D vision what it is today. I've not yet had the priveledge to taste the fine wine's of your work...but I assure you that i will... and i will do my best to keep the heart of 3D gaming beating with many talented others who wish to contribute. :)
Flugan said:This makes me feel like going out of retirement. My goal is to start learning shader fixes but I would really like to collaborate regularly with someone and Learning the art of shader fixes together. I'm less inclined to work alone without anyone to talk to. I expect to begin small. Anyone interested?
+1 count me in. My experience is somewhat limited in the 3D aspect of things but that's never prohibited me from learning previously. I'd like to point out that if there is to be a collaberation of people to help continue serving the community, then there needs to be a solid form of communication amongst those individuals.
Thanks to those who've helped make 3D vision what it is today. I've not yet had the priveledge to taste the fine wine's of your work...but I assure you that i will... and i will do my best to keep the heart of 3D gaming beating with many talented others who wish to contribute. :)
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
The results are here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4550
Unfortunately, the graph is no longer available but it worked just as well on both cards.
tridef is a different matter now as it doesn't support SLi so cannot compete on performance in that arena.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
IMO, the push for profit in 3D, at least where Nvidia and AMD are concerned, should have been in selling SLI and Crossfire setups. Vendor and consumer fees should be minimized as much as possible. Of course, they'd have to provide better profile support that what's currently available. Isn't the dream of every businessman to sell you the same thing twice?
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
The right way to structure that would be to make the base driver available for say $10, and include a 'free' fixed game with that. Something interesting, maybe rotate it to the top AAA game as they come out.
Then, charge a fee for every game fix, something smallish, like $2 for each game fix.
You want to leverage the crowd that you have, and keep it in the impulse purchase range.
(But most importantly, get paid for future work, make it possible to have a future.)
I don't think a subscription approach is right for this, because then they get paid even if nothing comes out or it's terrible. That puts too much risk on the buyer. You need a system that motivates both the buyer and the creator.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
https://twitter.com/Rocquitojuegos/status/530310157260304384
I agree with this 100%, even if some of us are desperate enough to pay for a subscription. I would pay three dollars per profile from Nvidia or Tridef (I use both) without a thought.
It's hard to see what Tridef's long term goals were in regards to PC gaming. They were probably betting on at least three to four years of steady growth in the market and when that didn't happen…
Nvidia/AMD/Oculus/publishers could always contract Tridef directly to create 3D profiles, but there's not enough demand for any of this to happen. And we all know the sad situation with Helix.
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
Why don't you tweet the above? Or better yet why not word your post in a reasonable manner?
This is not the way to try and get NVidia to improve their support, and this is not the way we do business on the forum.
I'm sorry but I'm more annoyed about your post right now than the state of NVidia 3D.
i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide
Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2
Maybe for legal reasons NVidia can not create patches .
Only gripe is with sponsor games should use all NVidia Tech (3d vision, multi monitor support and DSR etc.) not just a subset of features.
Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55
As you pointed out, money is the big talker here and AMD isn't any better. I wish there was a third company to shake things up, say Intel or Samsung.
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
4K 55" LG 55EF9500 3D OLED TV for sale! Pickup ONLY in Philadelphia, PA. PM for details.
Great post.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
+1 count me in. My experience is somewhat limited in the 3D aspect of things but that's never prohibited me from learning previously. I'd like to point out that if there is to be a collaberation of people to help continue serving the community, then there needs to be a solid form of communication amongst those individuals.
Thanks to those who've helped make 3D vision what it is today. I've not yet had the priveledge to taste the fine wine's of your work...but I assure you that i will... and i will do my best to keep the heart of 3D gaming beating with many talented others who wish to contribute. :)