Why 3D spoiled games for me
  2 / 3    
*snip*
*snip*

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#16
Posted 03/23/2014 04:57 PM   
[quote="Asta Storm"]It's annoying to me that people give unsolicited advice. I don't have a problem that needs solving.[/quote] So you came to this [i][b]community[/b][/i] not to share in a breadth of ideas, but to declare your world view as gospel? You should have used a stone tablet.
Asta Storm said:It's annoying to me that people give unsolicited advice. I don't have a problem that needs solving.


So you came to this community not to share in a breadth of ideas, but to declare your world view as gospel?

You should have used a stone tablet.

#17
Posted 03/23/2014 05:51 PM   
[quote="danielmalvarado"][quote="Asta Storm"]It's annoying to me that people give unsolicited advice. I don't have a problem that needs solving.[/quote] So you came to this [i][b]community[/b][/i] not to share in a breadth of ideas, but to declare your world view as gospel? You should have used a stone tablet.[/quote] what did you expect, it's a forum...feedback can be construed anyway you want....it's a forum.....whatever I guess....
danielmalvarado said:
Asta Storm said:It's annoying to me that people give unsolicited advice. I don't have a problem that needs solving.
So you came to this community not to share in a breadth of ideas, but to declare your world view as gospel? You should have used a stone tablet.


what did you expect, it's a forum...feedback can be construed anyway you want....it's a forum.....whatever I guess....

#18
Posted 03/23/2014 09:26 PM   
I see the problem. This is how you could react: share your own experience, only. Your experience does not need to be opposite to mine, I'd actually appreciate you expanding my views instead of contradicting them as it seems to be an unwritten law on the internet. Just don't give unsolicited advice. Let's say, scientists gather to talk about quantum physics. Nobody wants anybody there to doubt that electrons exist. Same here. We can accomplish great things if people stop trying so hard to contradict each other. [quote="danielmalvarado"]You should have used a stone tablet.[/quote]I wrote this on my iStone in 1450. I just witnessed birth of Zimburg von Baden, I tweeted the pictures to my stone wall, the one having a touch screen you can actually feel the surface on. I write on it using my new invention, the iStick. Unfortunately I had to write down that a long-term friend of mine, William de la Pole, is very sick and will probably die soon.
I see the problem. This is how you could react: share your own experience, only. Your experience does not need to be opposite to mine, I'd actually appreciate you expanding my views instead of contradicting them as it seems to be an unwritten law on the internet. Just don't give unsolicited advice.

Let's say, scientists gather to talk about quantum physics. Nobody wants anybody there to doubt that electrons exist. Same here. We can accomplish great things if people stop trying so hard to contradict each other.

danielmalvarado said:You should have used a stone tablet.
I wrote this on my iStone in 1450. I just witnessed birth of Zimburg von Baden, I tweeted the pictures to my stone wall, the one having a touch screen you can actually feel the surface on. I write on it using my new invention, the iStick. Unfortunately I had to write down that a long-term friend of mine, William de la Pole, is very sick and will probably die soon.

#19
Posted 03/23/2014 10:15 PM   
Oh, I see the problem. You already have all the answers, and your opinions are beyond reproach. Feel free to come back in a few years when you no longer know everything. Then, your opinions might be worth something.
Oh, I see the problem. You already have all the answers, and your opinions are beyond reproach.

Feel free to come back in a few years when you no longer know everything. Then, your opinions might be worth something.

ImageVolnaPC.com - Tips, tweaks, performance comparisons (PhysX card, SLI scaling, etc)

#20
Posted 03/23/2014 10:44 PM   
IMO, polygonal models look 100%, well, crisper in 3D than 2D. Edges that were pixelated as one triangle meets another lose their bumpiness and become smooth as those edges now have more context for my brain to deal with. As to the OP, this is a discussion forum, not a shut up and listen to me forum.
IMO, polygonal models look 100%, well, crisper in 3D than 2D. Edges that were pixelated as one triangle meets another lose their bumpiness and become smooth as those edges now have more context for my brain to deal with.

As to the OP, this is a discussion forum, not a shut up and listen to me forum.

#21
Posted 03/23/2014 11:46 PM   
[quote="Asta Storm"]It's annoying to me that people give unsolicited advice. I don't have a problem that needs solving.[/quote] Seriously though, try lowering the convergence. That won't solve your problem completely, but it might make things look a lot better.
Asta Storm said:It's annoying to me that people give unsolicited advice. I don't have a problem that needs solving.


Seriously though, try lowering the convergence. That won't solve your problem completely, but it might make things look a lot better.

#22
Posted 03/24/2014 12:20 AM   
@Asta Storm As mentioned above, have you gamed using a projector? PJ owners certainly seem to rate PJs > monitors for immersion. Viewing a scene on a desktop monitor will result in objects looking smaller because they are drawn smaller. Depending on the size of the PJ screen, you should be able to achieve a lifelike scale using a PJ. All things being equal (stretched models etc.) I would be curious to see if you think 3D on PJ spoils the experience or enhances it.
@Asta Storm

As mentioned above, have you gamed using a projector? PJ owners certainly seem to rate PJs > monitors for immersion.

Viewing a scene on a desktop monitor will result in objects looking smaller because they are drawn smaller. Depending on the size of the PJ screen, you should be able to achieve a lifelike scale using a PJ.

All things being equal (stretched models etc.) I would be curious to see if you think 3D on PJ spoils the experience or enhances it.

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#23
Posted 03/24/2014 08:49 AM   
@ Asta: One of the problems was you didn't state your [censored] opinion as if it were an opinion. You stated it as if it were an undisputed, plain-as-day fact, which almost requires people to address that first because it might represent the foundations of your opinion. 3D is pretty complex and linear perspective (by that i mean the size objects take up in your FOV) also can play a part in making things appear too small, which you mentioned you were having a problem with. Also screen size, viewing distance, FOV setting, etc. Things shouldn't, or don't have to, appear small if they are not small in reality.
@ Asta: One of the problems was you didn't state your [censored] opinion as if it were an opinion. You stated it as if it were an undisputed, plain-as-day fact, which almost requires people to address that first because it might represent the foundations of your opinion.

3D is pretty complex and linear perspective (by that i mean the size objects take up in your FOV) also can play a part in making things appear too small, which you mentioned you were having a problem with. Also screen size, viewing distance, FOV setting, etc. Things shouldn't, or don't have to, appear small if they are not small in reality.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#24
Posted 03/24/2014 06:45 PM   
Any other experiences from different people?
Any other experiences from different people?

#25
Posted 03/28/2014 09:21 PM   
The sort of thing that the OP is talking about is exactly how I felt about HD. After games went HD you could clearly see just how fake looking everything was. That's not so much the case anymore, now that graphics have caught up (in AAA games, at least), but I never understood how people can enjoy things like HD "remastered" PS2 games, those all look so much worse to me than they do on the old TVs they were designed for. I suppose some of that applies to 3D as well. Things like flat textures and low poly geometry do stick out a bit more. But in this case the added immersion makes up for it tenfold. Though, I use a projector, so there's extra immersion, and no toyification. But even on 3DS, games feel much more immersive with the 3D on. I agree with others that it's harder to enjoy 2D games now.
The sort of thing that the OP is talking about is exactly how I felt about HD. After games went HD you could clearly see just how fake looking everything was. That's not so much the case anymore, now that graphics have caught up (in AAA games, at least), but I never understood how people can enjoy things like HD "remastered" PS2 games, those all look so much worse to me than they do on the old TVs they were designed for.

I suppose some of that applies to 3D as well. Things like flat textures and low poly geometry do stick out a bit more. But in this case the added immersion makes up for it tenfold. Though, I use a projector, so there's extra immersion, and no toyification. But even on 3DS, games feel much more immersive with the 3D on. I agree with others that it's harder to enjoy 2D games now.

#26
Posted 03/28/2014 10:26 PM   
[quote="Asta Storm"]Any other experiences from different people?[/quote]Seeing fakeness in the games has not been my experience. For what it's worth I game on H5360 projector at 1280x720@120Hz. Shockingly low resolution by today's perspective, but I don't ever notice jaggies, nor resolution. 10' diagonal screen, does not appear to be a window into a doll house, it's more like real life. Dark room, no edges to screen, fills my view. Might depend upon the game as well. Presently playing DS3 in co-op with dual 3D projectors, and it is unquestionably the best gaming experience of my life. I don't notice anything seeming fake, flying through space with Helix Mod feels 'real', even while it's 3rd person view. Far Cry, sneaking through the jungle seems quite compelling to me. I don't notice flat ground, fake trees, fake grass, it all seems pretty spot on. Just Cause 2 is beautiful and compelling. Sunsets are astonishing. Snow, ground, trees don't seem fake. Just my 2c.
Asta Storm said:Any other experiences from different people?
Seeing fakeness in the games has not been my experience. For what it's worth I game on H5360 projector at 1280x720@120Hz. Shockingly low resolution by today's perspective, but I don't ever notice jaggies, nor resolution. 10' diagonal screen, does not appear to be a window into a doll house, it's more like real life. Dark room, no edges to screen, fills my view.

Might depend upon the game as well. Presently playing DS3 in co-op with dual 3D projectors, and it is unquestionably the best gaming experience of my life. I don't notice anything seeming fake, flying through space with Helix Mod feels 'real', even while it's 3rd person view.

Far Cry, sneaking through the jungle seems quite compelling to me. I don't notice flat ground, fake trees, fake grass, it all seems pretty spot on.

Just Cause 2 is beautiful and compelling. Sunsets are astonishing. Snow, ground, trees don't seem fake.

Just my 2c.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#27
Posted 03/29/2014 01:23 AM   
I certainly feel there's the potential to notice 'fakeness', but as others have said, the pros generally outweigh the cons. However, if a game is densely designed and has plenty of detail, then I find that the opposite happens. I played through Witcher 2 in 2D, and thought it looked great. But then when I tried it in 3D, I was shocked at how many more details I noticed. Realistic clothing textures, jewelry, embroidery, wood grain. So much stuff was 'laying dormant' in the game, and only became noticeable through the intimacy of 3D. Like the OP says, 2D can hide a lot of flaws. But it can also hide beauty.
I certainly feel there's the potential to notice 'fakeness', but as others have said, the pros generally outweigh the cons.

However, if a game is densely designed and has plenty of detail, then I find that the opposite happens. I played through Witcher 2 in 2D, and thought it looked great. But then when I tried it in 3D, I was shocked at how many more details I noticed. Realistic clothing textures, jewelry, embroidery, wood grain. So much stuff was 'laying dormant' in the game, and only became noticeable through the intimacy of 3D.

Like the OP says, 2D can hide a lot of flaws. But it can also hide beauty.

ImageVolnaPC.com - Tips, tweaks, performance comparisons (PhysX card, SLI scaling, etc)

#28
Posted 03/29/2014 08:16 AM   
That's a good point that I neglected. Some games I like far, far better in 3D, because the depth adds so much realism. If the developers use bump-mapping, then typically the textures have extra depth to them. This can make things like concrete or brick walls have actual depth, and not look perfectly smooth. If devs skip bump mapping by being lazy, then it can definitely make a fake look to it. Look at the awnings over the windows in Bioshock Infinite start screen, and you can see they are just textures. There are several parts in BI where they chintzed out. The crazy part is that you can tell this in 2D as well, because without bump mapping your brain thinks something is off. My friend that plays in 2D pointed out the awnings as seeming fake even in 2D.
That's a good point that I neglected. Some games I like far, far better in 3D, because the depth adds so much realism.

If the developers use bump-mapping, then typically the textures have extra depth to them. This can make things like concrete or brick walls have actual depth, and not look perfectly smooth.

If devs skip bump mapping by being lazy, then it can definitely make a fake look to it. Look at the awnings over the windows in Bioshock Infinite start screen, and you can see they are just textures. There are several parts in BI where they chintzed out. The crazy part is that you can tell this in 2D as well, because without bump mapping your brain thinks something is off. My friend that plays in 2D pointed out the awnings as seeming fake even in 2D.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#29
Posted 03/29/2014 08:32 AM   
I thought bump mapping was just the old version of normal mapping? Are you talking about parallax mapping? Because that's one issue I've noticed. In every game I've tried that has parallax mapped textures, the effect is not in 3D. The same goes for specularity, it's always flat, so that effect does lose some of it's believability when in 3D Vision. Always wanted to ask the shader pros here if those things were limitations of 3D Vision or something fixable. I'd imagine if you were going to add 3D specularity that would probably involve fixing like half the shaders in a game though, so maybe not worth the effort, but that's one thing that always stands out for me as keeping the 3D from perfection.
I thought bump mapping was just the old version of normal mapping? Are you talking about parallax mapping? Because that's one issue I've noticed. In every game I've tried that has parallax mapped textures, the effect is not in 3D.

The same goes for specularity, it's always flat, so that effect does lose some of it's believability when in 3D Vision. Always wanted to ask the shader pros here if those things were limitations of 3D Vision or something fixable. I'd imagine if you were going to add 3D specularity that would probably involve fixing like half the shaders in a game though, so maybe not worth the effort, but that's one thing that always stands out for me as keeping the 3D from perfection.

#30
Posted 03/29/2014 08:28 PM   
  2 / 3    
Scroll To Top