Buy a Samsung 3D Ready TV and play with 3D Vision Forget about 3DTV Play!!! Rollermod ru
5 / 7
I thought there was no crosstalk in passive displays?
I had an idea for 3d glasses which would be pretty nice imo, especially if paired with light weight passive glasses. Transparent sides, completely transparent sides so your peripheral vision is uninterrupted. Combined with super light weight passive tech, they'd be much more comfortable to wear and with passive tech, who cares if you break them, there $2... ( to a point of course)
I think they would be much less intrusive that way.
[quote name='francomg' date='27 May 2011 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1306557891' post='1243370']
Are you viewing those pics in your TV or do you also own a 120hz LCD display?
[/quote]
I thought there was no crosstalk in passive displays?
I had an idea for 3d glasses which would be pretty nice imo, especially if paired with light weight passive glasses. Transparent sides, completely transparent sides so your peripheral vision is uninterrupted. Combined with super light weight passive tech, they'd be much more comfortable to wear and with passive tech, who cares if you break them, there $2... ( to a point of course)
I think they would be much less intrusive that way.
[quote name='francomg' date='27 May 2011 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1306557891' post='1243370']
Are you viewing those pics in your TV or do you also own a 120hz LCD display?
If done right, there could be less ghosting, same or better visual quality, and it's more comfortable with less eyestrain. Glasses are lighter and MUCH cheaper (like $10 or less). No batteries. No recharging.
If done poorly, however, there could be more ghosting and the brightness is much lower, and the resolution is half.
At the movie theater you are seeing passive 3D (probably RealD technology). I saw Avatar at the theater and thought it looked fine. Didn't really notice any ghosting. But I've seen a LG tv at Best Buy using passive and it was absolutely terrible. Beyond terrible. To the point I'm almost sure something had to be broken in the tv. But maybe not. Maybe it's just that bad. I've seen reviews which like passive tv's though. So who knows.
Samsung is working with RealD to make this technology next year. They are doing it differently than LG and Vizio and have full resolution. Essentially there is a "shutter" inside the tv. Different polarized light is sent for each eye for every line of resolution (unlike LG/Vizio which just sends every other line to each eye). Who knows how good it will look though. I personally would prefer this over active since there is ZERO chance of ghosting due to syncing the glasses (and no interference problems like in IR glasses) since there is no syncing involved. If it looks good, I plan to buy next year. Few weeks ago they announced monitors and 55 inch tv supposedly by next year.
Google "Samsung RealD" if you want to read more...
[/quote]
thanks for the great info. I've read mixed reviews about LG passive. I went to the LG site, all LG talks about is how comfortable they are. If LG can't make any image quality claims on their own website, I'm suspicious.
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
[quote name='AustinTex' date='28 May 2011 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1306613266' post='1243655']
It's arguable.
If done right, there could be less ghosting, same or better visual quality, and it's more comfortable with less eyestrain. Glasses are lighter and MUCH cheaper (like $10 or less). No batteries. No recharging.
If done poorly, however, there could be more ghosting and the brightness is much lower, and the resolution is half.
At the movie theater you are seeing passive 3D (probably RealD technology). I saw Avatar at the theater and thought it looked fine. Didn't really notice any ghosting. But I've seen a LG tv at Best Buy using passive and it was absolutely terrible. Beyond terrible. To the point I'm almost sure something had to be broken in the tv. But maybe not. Maybe it's just that bad. I've seen reviews which like passive tv's though. So who knows.
Samsung is working with RealD to make this technology next year. They are doing it differently than LG and Vizio and have full resolution. Essentially there is a "shutter" inside the tv. Different polarized light is sent for each eye for every line of resolution (unlike LG/Vizio which just sends every other line to each eye). Who knows how good it will look though. I personally would prefer this over active since there is ZERO chance of ghosting due to syncing the glasses (and no interference problems like in IR glasses) since there is no syncing involved. If it looks good, I plan to buy next year. Few weeks ago they announced monitors and 55 inch tv supposedly by next year.
Google "Samsung RealD" if you want to read more...
thanks for the great info. I've read mixed reviews about LG passive. I went to the LG site, all LG talks about is how comfortable they are. If LG can't make any image quality claims on their own website, I'm suspicious.
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
[quote name='Libertine' date='27 May 2011 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1306547774' post='1243328']
Auto is for basic users, is that what you used?
[/quote]
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing. Since 2007 until Dec 2010, I thought Sony was the only brand that "looked like a PC monitor" on desktop. That's why I bought Sony in Nov. 2010. Now I know that Samsung has the same 2D quality as Sony, only difference is Sony defaults to PC mode, Samsung must be manually changed to PC mode, Video mode is default.
As I scrolled through various icons under 'scene', I noticed that most gave the same ugly 2D look as other brands. Only 'auto' looked good, so of course I left it on auto.
[quote name='Libertine' date='27 May 2011 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1306547774' post='1243328']
Auto is for basic users, is that what you used?
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing. Since 2007 until Dec 2010, I thought Sony was the only brand that "looked like a PC monitor" on desktop. That's why I bought Sony in Nov. 2010. Now I know that Samsung has the same 2D quality as Sony, only difference is Sony defaults to PC mode, Samsung must be manually changed to PC mode, Video mode is default.
As I scrolled through various icons under 'scene', I noticed that most gave the same ugly 2D look as other brands. Only 'auto' looked good, so of course I left it on auto.
[quote name='roller11' date='28 May 2011 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1306615203' post='1243665']
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
[/quote]
No. My guess is they are gonna use two sets of LED backlights (or a polarizer on each LED to get the same effect, whichever is cheaper I'm sure). One polarized for the right eye and one polarized for the left eye. And flash them at 120 or 240 Hz, alternating left and right eye images. It's essentially exactly what your shutter glasses are doing now, except the shutter is in the tv itself. The light will be polarized so that each lens on each eye has the image blocked when it is meant for the other eye. The advantage being that there is no syncing between the glasses and the tv. Everything is internal. Checkerboard could be supported in theory with this. But I don't know if they would. Hopefully the new HDMI spec will be out by then too.
Ghosting can be caused by the glasses being out of sync. But is more often caused by each pixel not being able to change fast enough from one color to the next when the image is alternating between the left and right eyes. LCDs are slower than plasmas when it comes to the physics involved. But both technologies are getting faster and faster every year at color switching. So this becomes less of a problem every year.
It's my understanding that at the theater, they use essentially 2 projectors (one dual lens projector actually) so they can actually project both full resolution images simultaneously on the screen on top of each other. But the left image cannot be seen by the right eye. And the right image cannot be seen by the left eye. There is a different film on each lens to block one type of polarized light.
Only other way they can passively have full resolution is to double the resolution of the tv (1920x2160 or 3840x1080) and use every other line 100% of the time like LG and Vizio do. Except with LG and Vizio each eye only gets 1920x540. With this method, there should be zero ghosting unless the image is processed wrong (which is another way you can get ghosting. Like the Sharpness issue, for example)
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
[quote name='roller11' date='28 May 2011 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1306615203' post='1243665']
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
No. My guess is they are gonna use two sets of LED backlights (or a polarizer on each LED to get the same effect, whichever is cheaper I'm sure). One polarized for the right eye and one polarized for the left eye. And flash them at 120 or 240 Hz, alternating left and right eye images. It's essentially exactly what your shutter glasses are doing now, except the shutter is in the tv itself. The light will be polarized so that each lens on each eye has the image blocked when it is meant for the other eye. The advantage being that there is no syncing between the glasses and the tv. Everything is internal. Checkerboard could be supported in theory with this. But I don't know if they would. Hopefully the new HDMI spec will be out by then too.
Ghosting can be caused by the glasses being out of sync. But is more often caused by each pixel not being able to change fast enough from one color to the next when the image is alternating between the left and right eyes. LCDs are slower than plasmas when it comes to the physics involved. But both technologies are getting faster and faster every year at color switching. So this becomes less of a problem every year.
It's my understanding that at the theater, they use essentially 2 projectors (one dual lens projector actually) so they can actually project both full resolution images simultaneously on the screen on top of each other. But the left image cannot be seen by the right eye. And the right image cannot be seen by the left eye. There is a different film on each lens to block one type of polarized light.
Only other way they can passively have full resolution is to double the resolution of the tv (1920x2160 or 3840x1080) and use every other line 100% of the time like LG and Vizio do. Except with LG and Vizio each eye only gets 1920x540. With this method, there should be zero ghosting unless the image is processed wrong (which is another way you can get ghosting. Like the Sharpness issue, for example)
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
[quote name='AustinTex' date='28 May 2011 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1306621129' post='1243689']
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
[/quote]
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
Thanks for explaining this, even if it is only "your understanding" (which so far has been spot on) :)
[quote name='AustinTex' date='28 May 2011 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1306621129' post='1243689']
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
Thanks for explaining this, even if it is only "your understanding" (which so far has been spot on) :)
[quote name='roller11' date='28 May 2011 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1306623624' post='1243700']
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
[/quote]
As with all of this technology, it all depends on how well it is implemented. And it's more about eliminating crosstalk creation, rather than increasing crosstalk suppression, I think. In the movie theater I didn't notice any crosstalk at all between the left and right eye with their RealD passive glasses. But to be honest, I wasn't really looking for it either.
And like I said, there is more than one thing that causes you to see "crosstalk". Problem could be caused by:
-Source signal is sent with crosstalk in it (poor processing before tv even gets the signal)
-Pixels can't completely change fast enough (this problem getting less every year)
-Glasses aren't perfectly in sync (shutter)
-Polarized filters/light aren't perfectly in tune (passive)
-TV is doing some dumb processing of the image it shouldn't be doing (too much sharpness, for example)
I think that's pretty much all the ways. But the 2011 models are better than the 2010, which were better than the 2009.... Next year will be even better. Eventually they will get it right. :)
[quote name='roller11' date='28 May 2011 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1306623624' post='1243700']
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
As with all of this technology, it all depends on how well it is implemented. And it's more about eliminating crosstalk creation, rather than increasing crosstalk suppression, I think. In the movie theater I didn't notice any crosstalk at all between the left and right eye with their RealD passive glasses. But to be honest, I wasn't really looking for it either.
And like I said, there is more than one thing that causes you to see "crosstalk". Problem could be caused by:
-Source signal is sent with crosstalk in it (poor processing before tv even gets the signal)
-Pixels can't completely change fast enough (this problem getting less every year)
-Glasses aren't perfectly in sync (shutter)
-Polarized filters/light aren't perfectly in tune (passive)
-TV is doing some dumb processing of the image it shouldn't be doing (too much sharpness, for example)
I think that's pretty much all the ways. But the 2011 models are better than the 2010, which were better than the 2009.... Next year will be even better. Eventually they will get it right. :)
[quote name='roller11' date='28 May 2011 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1306616126' post='1243669']
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing.
[/quote]
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't. No where does it say anything about a "PC mode". Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential by turning down the image sharpening, which is probably what has been your problem this whole time, because it messes everything up. It completely ruins text, makes the pq look horrible in many cases and makes the jaggies in lower resolutions, like 720p stand out like crazy. I thought i would have to return this Sony until i realized what was happening. I kept re doing the cleartype configuration utility in W7 to try and make it look semi-decent until i figured out it was just sharpening...
[quote name='roller11' date='28 May 2011 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1306616126' post='1243669']
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing.
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't. No where does it say anything about a "PC mode". Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential by turning down the image sharpening, which is probably what has been your problem this whole time, because it messes everything up. It completely ruins text, makes the pq look horrible in many cases and makes the jaggies in lower resolutions, like 720p stand out like crazy. I thought i would have to return this Sony until i realized what was happening. I kept re doing the cleartype configuration utility in W7 to try and make it look semi-decent until i figured out it was just sharpening...
Yes, There's nothing wrong with Samsung Frame Packing mode, all jaggies and ugly edges were related to sharpness adjustments, it definatelly plays a big role for gaming 3D quality. I know it affects PC 3D gaming a lot and that's why you must turn sharpness off. I don't know about bluray3D, haven't tried reducing sharpness while waching a BD3D to see if will look better with reduced shapness, though I've never really seen any ugly edges for BD3D, it always looks perfect, maybe shapness really affects 3D gaming only.
Yes, There's nothing wrong with Samsung Frame Packing mode, all jaggies and ugly edges were related to sharpness adjustments, it definatelly plays a big role for gaming 3D quality. I know it affects PC 3D gaming a lot and that's why you must turn sharpness off. I don't know about bluray3D, haven't tried reducing sharpness while waching a BD3D to see if will look better with reduced shapness, though I've never really seen any ugly edges for BD3D, it always looks perfect, maybe shapness really affects 3D gaming only.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='Libertine' date='28 May 2011 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1306633391' post='1243732']
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't.[/quote]
100% wrong, I've seen it, known about it for four years based on direct observation, something you know nothing about.
[quote] No where does it say anything about a "PC mode".[/quote]
So? It isn't documented in the users manual, not labeled 'PC Mode', but it exists. Likewise Samsung doesn't document the fact that there are two different modes, but it's easy to prove they exist.
[quote] Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential[/quote]
Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort. Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum.
It is absolutely impossible to duplicate the PC mode look in 2D with any of the available settings in Video mode. Video and PC look different no matter what the tweaks. All Franco did was minimize one of several bad characteristics that Video mode exhibits. Sharpening makes text look less bad, but it still isn't as crisp as PC mode. What Franco didn't tell you is that even this improvement was at the expense of an even worse characteristic, color smear. Of course you wouldn't know anything about this since you've never been within a mile of a Samsung. When you have played around with a Samsung TV, come back and state your opinion.
We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic.
It's a free forum and you can say anything you want, but at least preface your 'expert testimony' by "noobies, don't be fooled by my authoratative rhetoric. I have never laid eyes on a Samsung so I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about."
[quote name='Libertine' date='28 May 2011 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1306633391' post='1243732']
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't.
100% wrong, I've seen it, known about it for four years based on direct observation, something you know nothing about.
No where does it say anything about a "PC mode".
So? It isn't documented in the users manual, not labeled 'PC Mode', but it exists. Likewise Samsung doesn't document the fact that there are two different modes, but it's easy to prove they exist.
Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential
Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort. Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum.
It is absolutely impossible to duplicate the PC mode look in 2D with any of the available settings in Video mode. Video and PC look different no matter what the tweaks. All Franco did was minimize one of several bad characteristics that Video mode exhibits. Sharpening makes text look less bad, but it still isn't as crisp as PC mode. What Franco didn't tell you is that even this improvement was at the expense of an even worse characteristic, color smear. Of course you wouldn't know anything about this since you've never been within a mile of a Samsung. When you have played around with a Samsung TV, come back and state your opinion.
We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic.
It's a free forum and you can say anything you want, but at least preface your 'expert testimony' by "noobies, don't be fooled by my authoratative rhetoric. I have never laid eyes on a Samsung so I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about."
You don't "pc mode" would be important enough to put into a manual? Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?
[quote]Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort. [/quote]Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum.[/quote] I have never, ever said or intented to say or imply that CB looked horrible, and, im a supporter of it, but i think you are very irresponsible. You know that Roller, or you have a seriously bad short term memory.
[quote]We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic. [/quote]
If i couldn't afford a Samsung Tv or the dev team wasn't building support for SBS, then i might very well be a little resentful, but im not and I have zero loyalty to the Sony brand. I came into this knowing i might be a beta tester for the 3D revolution and if the Nvidia dev team is doing their job, im ok with it. Its occuring to me that im trying to have a rational conversation with u. Somewhere along the line, someone told you via words, or actions that it was ok to lie/overstate........ its not ok. People like you start wars, people like you get other people killed every day. People like you tell other poeple what a fantastic idea it would be to build tons of ovens and cook several million people to death, people like you travel to Africa telling the natives how evil **** people are causing them to be murdered, and on and on.
You don't "pc mode" would be important enough to put into a manual? Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?
Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort.
Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum. I have never, ever said or intented to say or imply that CB looked horrible, and, im a supporter of it, but i think you are very irresponsible. You know that Roller, or you have a seriously bad short term memory.
We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic.
If i couldn't afford a Samsung Tv or the dev team wasn't building support for SBS, then i might very well be a little resentful, but im not and I have zero loyalty to the Sony brand. I came into this knowing i might be a beta tester for the 3D revolution and if the Nvidia dev team is doing their job, im ok with it. Its occuring to me that im trying to have a rational conversation with u. Somewhere along the line, someone told you via words, or actions that it was ok to lie/overstate........ its not ok. People like you start wars, people like you get other people killed every day. People like you tell other poeple what a fantastic idea it would be to build tons of ovens and cook several million people to death, people like you travel to Africa telling the natives how evil **** people are causing them to be murdered, and on and on.
I have recently purchased a Samsung 50" C7000 and am now running the roller mode. Works great thanks!!
As such I'm now interested in purchasing a VESA message suppressor from you.
I live in Australia how do we go about it?
One idea i've had is maybe put it on ebay as a 'Buy it now' and post the link in the forum.
[quote name='Libertine' date='29 May 2011 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1306649123' post='1243773']
Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?[/quote]
So now you're saying I'm lying, this PC mode/ Video mode is a fantasy, a conspiracy that AustinTex, Franco, and myself have perpetrated upon this forum. And for what purpose? So that we can trick naive noobies into buying Samsung TVs? This is why you have ZERO credibility in this forum.
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive. I'll let the members of this forum compare your statements against mine, Franco, AustinTex, and the hordes of others who praise CB mode, and let each individual determine who is lying and who's telling the truth.
[quote name='Libertine' date='29 May 2011 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1306649123' post='1243773']
Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?
So now you're saying I'm lying, this PC mode/ Video mode is a fantasy, a conspiracy that AustinTex, Franco, and myself have perpetrated upon this forum. And for what purpose? So that we can trick naive noobies into buying Samsung TVs? This is why you have ZERO credibility in this forum.
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive. I'll let the members of this forum compare your statements against mine, Franco, AustinTex, and the hordes of others who praise CB mode, and let each individual determine who is lying and who's telling the truth.
[quote name='malmic-of-tesla' date='29 May 2011 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1306651581' post='1243786']
Hi roller 11,
I have recently purchased a Samsung 50" C7000 and am now running the roller mode. Works great thanks!!
As such I'm now interested in purchasing a VESA message suppressor from you.
I live in Australia how do we go about it?
One idea i've had is maybe put it on ebay as a 'Buy it now' and post the link in the forum.
[quote name='roller11' date='29 May 2011 - 08:24 AM' timestamp='1306682647' post='1243920']
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.[/quote]
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that, for example, persuaded a guy in a recent thread away from jumping into 3D.
[quote]
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive.
[/quote]If you think i like these conversations, or spending hours chasing after information to figure out if opinions and guesses you've stated plainly as fact are true or not, i wish you could have seen the expression on my face this whole time.
[quote name='roller11' date='29 May 2011 - 08:24 AM' timestamp='1306682647' post='1243920']
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that, for example, persuaded a guy in a recent thread away from jumping into 3D.
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive.
If you think i like these conversations, or spending hours chasing after information to figure out if opinions and guesses you've stated plainly as fact are true or not, i wish you could have seen the expression on my face this whole time.
[quote name='Libertine' date='29 May 2011 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1306688432' post='1243967']
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that[/quote]
If you are going to accuse me of "misinformation" then you need to cite a reference.
[quote]persuaded a guy in a recent thread away from jumping into 3D.[/quote]
Another false accusation.
[quote] you think i like these conversations[/quote]
Of course I do. Why else your conspiracy theory?
I had an idea for 3d glasses which would be pretty nice imo, especially if paired with light weight passive glasses. Transparent sides, completely transparent sides so your peripheral vision is uninterrupted. Combined with super light weight passive tech, they'd be much more comfortable to wear and with passive tech, who cares if you break them, there $2... ( to a point of course)
I think they would be much less intrusive that way.
[quote name='francomg' date='27 May 2011 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1306557891' post='1243370']
Are you viewing those pics in your TV or do you also own a 120hz LCD display?
[/quote]
I saw viewing on my Tv.
I had an idea for 3d glasses which would be pretty nice imo, especially if paired with light weight passive glasses. Transparent sides, completely transparent sides so your peripheral vision is uninterrupted. Combined with super light weight passive tech, they'd be much more comfortable to wear and with passive tech, who cares if you break them, there $2... ( to a point of course)
I think they would be much less intrusive that way.
[quote name='francomg' date='27 May 2011 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1306557891' post='1243370']
Are you viewing those pics in your TV or do you also own a 120hz LCD display?
I saw viewing on my Tv.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
It's arguable.
If done right, there could be less ghosting, same or better visual quality, and it's more comfortable with less eyestrain. Glasses are lighter and MUCH cheaper (like $10 or less). No batteries. No recharging.
If done poorly, however, there could be more ghosting and the brightness is much lower, and the resolution is half.
At the movie theater you are seeing passive 3D (probably RealD technology). I saw Avatar at the theater and thought it looked fine. Didn't really notice any ghosting. But I've seen a LG tv at Best Buy using passive and it was absolutely terrible. Beyond terrible. To the point I'm almost sure something had to be broken in the tv. But maybe not. Maybe it's just that bad. I've seen reviews which like passive tv's though. So who knows.
Samsung is working with RealD to make this technology next year. They are doing it differently than LG and Vizio and have full resolution. Essentially there is a "shutter" inside the tv. Different polarized light is sent for each eye for every line of resolution (unlike LG/Vizio which just sends every other line to each eye). Who knows how good it will look though. I personally would prefer this over active since there is ZERO chance of ghosting due to syncing the glasses (and no interference problems like in IR glasses) since there is no syncing involved. If it looks good, I plan to buy next year. Few weeks ago they announced monitors and 55 inch tv supposedly by next year.
Google "Samsung RealD" if you want to read more...
[/quote]
thanks for the great info. I've read mixed reviews about LG passive. I went to the LG site, all LG talks about is how comfortable they are. If LG can't make any image quality claims on their own website, I'm suspicious.
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
It's arguable.
If done right, there could be less ghosting, same or better visual quality, and it's more comfortable with less eyestrain. Glasses are lighter and MUCH cheaper (like $10 or less). No batteries. No recharging.
If done poorly, however, there could be more ghosting and the brightness is much lower, and the resolution is half.
At the movie theater you are seeing passive 3D (probably RealD technology). I saw Avatar at the theater and thought it looked fine. Didn't really notice any ghosting. But I've seen a LG tv at Best Buy using passive and it was absolutely terrible. Beyond terrible. To the point I'm almost sure something had to be broken in the tv. But maybe not. Maybe it's just that bad. I've seen reviews which like passive tv's though. So who knows.
Samsung is working with RealD to make this technology next year. They are doing it differently than LG and Vizio and have full resolution. Essentially there is a "shutter" inside the tv. Different polarized light is sent for each eye for every line of resolution (unlike LG/Vizio which just sends every other line to each eye). Who knows how good it will look though. I personally would prefer this over active since there is ZERO chance of ghosting due to syncing the glasses (and no interference problems like in IR glasses) since there is no syncing involved. If it looks good, I plan to buy next year. Few weeks ago they announced monitors and 55 inch tv supposedly by next year.
Google "Samsung RealD" if you want to read more...
thanks for the great info. I've read mixed reviews about LG passive. I went to the LG site, all LG talks about is how comfortable they are. If LG can't make any image quality claims on their own website, I'm suspicious.
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
Auto is for basic users, is that what you used?
[/quote]
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing. Since 2007 until Dec 2010, I thought Sony was the only brand that "looked like a PC monitor" on desktop. That's why I bought Sony in Nov. 2010. Now I know that Samsung has the same 2D quality as Sony, only difference is Sony defaults to PC mode, Samsung must be manually changed to PC mode, Video mode is default.
As I scrolled through various icons under 'scene', I noticed that most gave the same ugly 2D look as other brands. Only 'auto' looked good, so of course I left it on auto.
Auto is for basic users, is that what you used?
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing. Since 2007 until Dec 2010, I thought Sony was the only brand that "looked like a PC monitor" on desktop. That's why I bought Sony in Nov. 2010. Now I know that Samsung has the same 2D quality as Sony, only difference is Sony defaults to PC mode, Samsung must be manually changed to PC mode, Video mode is default.
As I scrolled through various icons under 'scene', I noticed that most gave the same ugly 2D look as other brands. Only 'auto' looked good, so of course I left it on auto.
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
[/quote]
No. My guess is they are gonna use two sets of LED backlights (or a polarizer on each LED to get the same effect, whichever is cheaper I'm sure). One polarized for the right eye and one polarized for the left eye. And flash them at 120 or 240 Hz, alternating left and right eye images. It's essentially exactly what your shutter glasses are doing now, except the shutter is in the tv itself. The light will be polarized so that each lens on each eye has the image blocked when it is meant for the other eye. The advantage being that there is no syncing between the glasses and the tv. Everything is internal. Checkerboard could be supported in theory with this. But I don't know if they would. Hopefully the new HDMI spec will be out by then too.
Ghosting can be caused by the glasses being out of sync. But is more often caused by each pixel not being able to change fast enough from one color to the next when the image is alternating between the left and right eyes. LCDs are slower than plasmas when it comes to the physics involved. But both technologies are getting faster and faster every year at color switching. So this becomes less of a problem every year.
It's my understanding that at the theater, they use essentially 2 projectors (one dual lens projector actually) so they can actually project both full resolution images simultaneously on the screen on top of each other. But the left image cannot be seen by the right eye. And the right image cannot be seen by the left eye. There is a different film on each lens to block one type of polarized light.
Only other way they can passively have full resolution is to double the resolution of the tv (1920x2160 or 3840x1080) and use every other line 100% of the time like LG and Vizio do. Except with LG and Vizio each eye only gets 1920x540. With this method, there should be zero ghosting unless the image is processed wrong (which is another way you can get ghosting. Like the Sharpness issue, for example)
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
If I'm understanding you, one vertical refresh = one frame (L+R image). Both left and right images are displayed at the same time on the same scan line. This is the only way I can conceive of "zero ghosting".
Implementation details aside, I guess we won't know until these TVs make an appearance at retailers.
And thanks for the link. :)
No. My guess is they are gonna use two sets of LED backlights (or a polarizer on each LED to get the same effect, whichever is cheaper I'm sure). One polarized for the right eye and one polarized for the left eye. And flash them at 120 or 240 Hz, alternating left and right eye images. It's essentially exactly what your shutter glasses are doing now, except the shutter is in the tv itself. The light will be polarized so that each lens on each eye has the image blocked when it is meant for the other eye. The advantage being that there is no syncing between the glasses and the tv. Everything is internal. Checkerboard could be supported in theory with this. But I don't know if they would. Hopefully the new HDMI spec will be out by then too.
Ghosting can be caused by the glasses being out of sync. But is more often caused by each pixel not being able to change fast enough from one color to the next when the image is alternating between the left and right eyes. LCDs are slower than plasmas when it comes to the physics involved. But both technologies are getting faster and faster every year at color switching. So this becomes less of a problem every year.
It's my understanding that at the theater, they use essentially 2 projectors (one dual lens projector actually) so they can actually project both full resolution images simultaneously on the screen on top of each other. But the left image cannot be seen by the right eye. And the right image cannot be seen by the left eye. There is a different film on each lens to block one type of polarized light.
Only other way they can passively have full resolution is to double the resolution of the tv (1920x2160 or 3840x1080) and use every other line 100% of the time like LG and Vizio do. Except with LG and Vizio each eye only gets 1920x540. With this method, there should be zero ghosting unless the image is processed wrong (which is another way you can get ghosting. Like the Sharpness issue, for example)
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
[/quote]
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
Thanks for explaining this, even if it is only "your understanding" (which so far has been spot on) :)
By the way, everything above is just my understanding. I'm not really an expert. :)
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
Thanks for explaining this, even if it is only "your understanding" (which so far has been spot on) :)
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
[/quote]
As with all of this technology, it all depends on how well it is implemented. And it's more about eliminating crosstalk creation, rather than increasing crosstalk suppression, I think. In the movie theater I didn't notice any crosstalk at all between the left and right eye with their RealD passive glasses. But to be honest, I wasn't really looking for it either.
And like I said, there is more than one thing that causes you to see "crosstalk". Problem could be caused by:
-Source signal is sent with crosstalk in it (poor processing before tv even gets the signal)
-Pixels can't completely change fast enough (this problem getting less every year)
-Glasses aren't perfectly in sync (shutter)
-Polarized filters/light aren't perfectly in tune (passive)
-TV is doing some dumb processing of the image it shouldn't be doing (too much sharpness, for example)
I think that's pretty much all the ways. But the 2011 models are better than the 2010, which were better than the 2009.... Next year will be even better. Eventually they will get it right. :)
I get that the switching mechanism is the display, not the glasses. But doesn't that mean that the crosstalk suppression is only as good as the polarization? That is, I'm assuming that a real life polarizing filter doesn't block 100% of the light. If so, wouldn't there be crosstalk, however small?
As with all of this technology, it all depends on how well it is implemented. And it's more about eliminating crosstalk creation, rather than increasing crosstalk suppression, I think. In the movie theater I didn't notice any crosstalk at all between the left and right eye with their RealD passive glasses. But to be honest, I wasn't really looking for it either.
And like I said, there is more than one thing that causes you to see "crosstalk". Problem could be caused by:
-Source signal is sent with crosstalk in it (poor processing before tv even gets the signal)
-Pixels can't completely change fast enough (this problem getting less every year)
-Glasses aren't perfectly in sync (shutter)
-Polarized filters/light aren't perfectly in tune (passive)
-TV is doing some dumb processing of the image it shouldn't be doing (too much sharpness, for example)
I think that's pretty much all the ways. But the 2011 models are better than the 2010, which were better than the 2009.... Next year will be even better. Eventually they will get it right. :)
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing.
[/quote]
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't. No where does it say anything about a "PC mode". Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential by turning down the image sharpening, which is probably what has been your problem this whole time, because it messes everything up. It completely ruins text, makes the pq look horrible in many cases and makes the jaggies in lower resolutions, like 720p stand out like crazy. I thought i would have to return this Sony until i realized what was happening. I kept re doing the cleartype configuration utility in W7 to try and make it look semi-decent until i figured out it was just sharpening...
'Auto' is the default and it is PC pixel processing.
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't. No where does it say anything about a "PC mode". Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential by turning down the image sharpening, which is probably what has been your problem this whole time, because it messes everything up. It completely ruins text, makes the pq look horrible in many cases and makes the jaggies in lower resolutions, like 720p stand out like crazy. I thought i would have to return this Sony until i realized what was happening. I kept re doing the cleartype configuration utility in W7 to try and make it look semi-decent until i figured out it was just sharpening...
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't.[/quote]
100% wrong, I've seen it, known about it for four years based on direct observation, something you know nothing about.
[quote] No where does it say anything about a "PC mode".[/quote]
So? It isn't documented in the users manual, not labeled 'PC Mode', but it exists. Likewise Samsung doesn't document the fact that there are two different modes, but it's easy to prove they exist.
[quote] Francong stated he can get frame packing in "video mode" to look just like it does in frame sequential[/quote]
Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort. Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum.
It is absolutely impossible to duplicate the PC mode look in 2D with any of the available settings in Video mode. Video and PC look different no matter what the tweaks. All Franco did was minimize one of several bad characteristics that Video mode exhibits. Sharpening makes text look less bad, but it still isn't as crisp as PC mode. What Franco didn't tell you is that even this improvement was at the expense of an even worse characteristic, color smear. Of course you wouldn't know anything about this since you've never been within a mile of a Samsung. When you have played around with a Samsung TV, come back and state your opinion.
We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic.
It's a free forum and you can say anything you want, but at least preface your 'expert testimony' by "noobies, don't be fooled by my authoratative rhetoric. I have never laid eyes on a Samsung so I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about."
Its just 1:1 pixel positioning roller, not a "PC mode". Samsung might have a "PC mode", but Sony doesn't.
100% wrong, I've seen it, known about it for four years based on direct observation, something you know nothing about.
So? It isn't documented in the users manual, not labeled 'PC Mode', but it exists. Likewise Samsung doesn't document the fact that there are two different modes, but it's easy to prove they exist.
Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort. Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum.
It is absolutely impossible to duplicate the PC mode look in 2D with any of the available settings in Video mode. Video and PC look different no matter what the tweaks. All Franco did was minimize one of several bad characteristics that Video mode exhibits. Sharpening makes text look less bad, but it still isn't as crisp as PC mode. What Franco didn't tell you is that even this improvement was at the expense of an even worse characteristic, color smear. Of course you wouldn't know anything about this since you've never been within a mile of a Samsung. When you have played around with a Samsung TV, come back and state your opinion.
We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic.
It's a free forum and you can say anything you want, but at least preface your 'expert testimony' by "noobies, don't be fooled by my authoratative rhetoric. I have never laid eyes on a Samsung so I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about."
You don't "pc mode" would be important enough to put into a manual? Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?
[quote]Wrong again, Franco never said anything of the sort. [/quote]Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum.[/quote] I have never, ever said or intented to say or imply that CB looked horrible, and, im a supporter of it, but i think you are very irresponsible. You know that Roller, or you have a seriously bad short term memory.
[quote]We get that you are resentful that you chose a 720P TV when you could have a native rez 3D TV. Just accept your mistake and move on, stop rationalizing. Constantly bashing/insulting me and all things Samsung while conveniently leaving out the " I have never seen a Samsung" part only makes your rants look that much more pathetic. [/quote]
If i couldn't afford a Samsung Tv or the dev team wasn't building support for SBS, then i might very well be a little resentful, but im not and I have zero loyalty to the Sony brand. I came into this knowing i might be a beta tester for the 3D revolution and if the Nvidia dev team is doing their job, im ok with it. Its occuring to me that im trying to have a rational conversation with u. Somewhere along the line, someone told you via words, or actions that it was ok to lie/overstate........ its not ok. People like you start wars, people like you get other people killed every day. People like you tell other poeple what a fantastic idea it would be to build tons of ovens and cook several million people to death, people like you travel to Africa telling the natives how evil **** people are causing them to be murdered, and on and on.
You don't "pc mode" would be important enough to put into a manual? Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?
Of course if you had ever taken the time to actually SEE checkerboard/ PC mode , actually take a look at Samsung instead of going on and on about how horrible it looks, maybe you would have something other than zero credibility in this forum. I have never, ever said or intented to say or imply that CB looked horrible, and, im a supporter of it, but i think you are very irresponsible. You know that Roller, or you have a seriously bad short term memory.
If i couldn't afford a Samsung Tv or the dev team wasn't building support for SBS, then i might very well be a little resentful, but im not and I have zero loyalty to the Sony brand. I came into this knowing i might be a beta tester for the 3D revolution and if the Nvidia dev team is doing their job, im ok with it. Its occuring to me that im trying to have a rational conversation with u. Somewhere along the line, someone told you via words, or actions that it was ok to lie/overstate........ its not ok. People like you start wars, people like you get other people killed every day. People like you tell other poeple what a fantastic idea it would be to build tons of ovens and cook several million people to death, people like you travel to Africa telling the natives how evil **** people are causing them to be murdered, and on and on.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
I have recently purchased a Samsung 50" C7000 and am now running the roller mode. Works great thanks!!
As such I'm now interested in purchasing a VESA message suppressor from you.
I live in Australia how do we go about it?
One idea i've had is maybe put it on ebay as a 'Buy it now' and post the link in the forum.
Thanks in advance.
I have recently purchased a Samsung 50" C7000 and am now running the roller mode. Works great thanks!!
As such I'm now interested in purchasing a VESA message suppressor from you.
I live in Australia how do we go about it?
One idea i've had is maybe put it on ebay as a 'Buy it now' and post the link in the forum.
Thanks in advance.
Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?[/quote]
So now you're saying I'm lying, this PC mode/ Video mode is a fantasy, a conspiracy that AustinTex, Franco, and myself have perpetrated upon this forum. And for what purpose? So that we can trick naive noobies into buying Samsung TVs? This is why you have ZERO credibility in this forum.
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive. I'll let the members of this forum compare your statements against mine, Franco, AustinTex, and the hordes of others who praise CB mode, and let each individual determine who is lying and who's telling the truth.
Maybe Pc mode exists in your head?
So now you're saying I'm lying, this PC mode/ Video mode is a fantasy, a conspiracy that AustinTex, Franco, and myself have perpetrated upon this forum. And for what purpose? So that we can trick naive noobies into buying Samsung TVs? This is why you have ZERO credibility in this forum.
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive. I'll let the members of this forum compare your statements against mine, Franco, AustinTex, and the hordes of others who praise CB mode, and let each individual determine who is lying and who's telling the truth.
Hi roller 11,
I have recently purchased a Samsung 50" C7000 and am now running the roller mode. Works great thanks!!
As such I'm now interested in purchasing a VESA message suppressor from you.
I live in Australia how do we go about it?
One idea i've had is maybe put it on ebay as a 'Buy it now' and post the link in the forum.
Thanks in advance.
[/quote]
PM sent.
Hi roller 11,
I have recently purchased a Samsung 50" C7000 and am now running the roller mode. Works great thanks!!
As such I'm now interested in purchasing a VESA message suppressor from you.
I live in Australia how do we go about it?
One idea i've had is maybe put it on ebay as a 'Buy it now' and post the link in the forum.
Thanks in advance.
PM sent.
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.[/quote]
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that, for example, persuaded a guy in a recent thread away from jumping into 3D.
[quote]
I won't allow you to put me on the defensive.
[/quote]If you think i like these conversations, or spending hours chasing after information to figure out if opinions and guesses you've stated plainly as fact are true or not, i wish you could have seen the expression on my face this whole time.
We are doing 1920x1080 native rez gaming, we don't need to 'defend our purchase'.
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that, for example, persuaded a guy in a recent thread away from jumping into 3D.
If you think i like these conversations, or spending hours chasing after information to figure out if opinions and guesses you've stated plainly as fact are true or not, i wish you could have seen the expression on my face this whole time.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that[/quote]
If you are going to accuse me of "misinformation" then you need to cite a reference.
[quote]persuaded a guy in a recent thread away from jumping into 3D.[/quote]
Another false accusation.
[quote] you think i like these conversations[/quote]
Of course I do. Why else your conspiracy theory?
But you will continue to have to defend your statements that contain potentially harmful misinformation that
If you are going to accuse me of "misinformation" then you need to cite a reference.
Another false accusation.
Of course I do. Why else your conspiracy theory?