Three New Ideas for 3D Vision See below
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I understand what you're getting at so let me break it down.

The idea is to create a new 2d game (not modify old games through drivers) in which all individual images are stereoscopic.
This would mean for every character, enemy, background etc there would be two images, each which would be sent to individual eyes making the game look 3d, correct?

It's not impossible, but there are several problems with this approach.
First, there is size. Doing this would double the file size (and memory requirement). Depending on the game that could be fine, or it could be very prohibitive.
Second, there's the actual 3d technology. When using 3d vision the system relies on the computer drawing the different images sequentially very fast. For video that's easy since it's just a single image at a time and for 3d gaming it's all done in the driver with virtual cameras. However doing it in a 3d game with maybe 100 different animated images that all has to be hotswapped 120 times a second in sync would be a nightmare.
Third, there's production cost. Making all the art required for such a project would be very time consuming, no matter what technique used. I doubt any game company would spend so much time on something that so few people will actually get to experience. As a comparison, making a "3d vision ready" game is relatively simple and only requires the Z index of effects, HUD etc. to be in the right depth, but even that is too much of a bother for most games.
Fourth, I'm unsure how much you would actually get out of using this technique instead of just using normal 2d images and apply depth index to different layers (since most 2d games use parallax scrolling anyway).
If the background was made from a single image then that might be worth it, but even then you'd either have to use tiles or have a gigantic image. Problematic.
Fifth, it would be much easier to apply fake depth using a separate Z-depth channel image. The result would be identical but you'd have the advantage of the stereoscopic process being done at the driver level.
Let me explain, if the images themselves were stereoscopic, then every single sprite in the game would have to be swapped back and fourth 120 times a second. If however the depth information was calculated from a Z-depth image then the pictures for the different eyes would be produced from virtual cameras and only the output of the cameras would have to be swapped.

One way I can see this technique being used though is if you were to look at a 3d tv inside a game world. in that case it could be easier to use a frame sequential texture synced to the real 3d glasses to show the image rather then giving it true 3d geometry. It would of course have the same problems you get in the real world where seeing it from an angle makes it look weird, but that's realistic in that one case.
I understand what you're getting at so let me break it down.



The idea is to create a new 2d game (not modify old games through drivers) in which all individual images are stereoscopic.

This would mean for every character, enemy, background etc there would be two images, each which would be sent to individual eyes making the game look 3d, correct?



It's not impossible, but there are several problems with this approach.

First, there is size. Doing this would double the file size (and memory requirement). Depending on the game that could be fine, or it could be very prohibitive.

Second, there's the actual 3d technology. When using 3d vision the system relies on the computer drawing the different images sequentially very fast. For video that's easy since it's just a single image at a time and for 3d gaming it's all done in the driver with virtual cameras. However doing it in a 3d game with maybe 100 different animated images that all has to be hotswapped 120 times a second in sync would be a nightmare.

Third, there's production cost. Making all the art required for such a project would be very time consuming, no matter what technique used. I doubt any game company would spend so much time on something that so few people will actually get to experience. As a comparison, making a "3d vision ready" game is relatively simple and only requires the Z index of effects, HUD etc. to be in the right depth, but even that is too much of a bother for most games.

Fourth, I'm unsure how much you would actually get out of using this technique instead of just using normal 2d images and apply depth index to different layers (since most 2d games use parallax scrolling anyway).

If the background was made from a single image then that might be worth it, but even then you'd either have to use tiles or have a gigantic image. Problematic.

Fifth, it would be much easier to apply fake depth using a separate Z-depth channel image. The result would be identical but you'd have the advantage of the stereoscopic process being done at the driver level.

Let me explain, if the images themselves were stereoscopic, then every single sprite in the game would have to be swapped back and fourth 120 times a second. If however the depth information was calculated from a Z-depth image then the pictures for the different eyes would be produced from virtual cameras and only the output of the cameras would have to be swapped.



One way I can see this technique being used though is if you were to look at a 3d tv inside a game world. in that case it could be easier to use a frame sequential texture synced to the real 3d glasses to show the image rather then giving it true 3d geometry. It would of course have the same problems you get in the real world where seeing it from an angle makes it look weird, but that's realistic in that one case.

#31
Posted 06/09/2011 07:18 PM   
He mentioned putting a sprite on a 3D model. The moment you put a 'sprite' which is essentially a 2D picture, on a model, it ceases to be a sprite and instead becomes a texture...

Why do you keep asking each and every person if they have either seen 3D photo's or tell them to go stare at some? What is your point? You do know a 3D photo works exactly the same way as the computer 3D does? It isn't anything special, its just 2 photographs taken at slightly different angles to give the illusion of depth, it's not particularly complex or special, they could do it in the 1900's, probably much earlier lol.

If you want a 3D game to look hand drawn, then go the borderlands route. Why you would go to the effort of making a 2D game 3D is beyond me, by their very nature they cannot co-exist properly, it wouldn't look right at all and is seriously not worth the time.

"Fifth, it would be much easier to apply fake depth using a separate Z-depth channel image. The result would be identical but you'd have the advantage of the stereoscopic process being done at the driver level."

Shimakaze, this sounds more reasonable, but seriously, even then its of majorly limited use and would not give a very good 3D effect. Like you say, HUDS and icons are already bad enough as 2D objects as it is, and most game devs dont make the effort, nevermind a whole game like that.

Shamaroq, go play Trine, seriously, you'll see its just easier to make it in 3D even if the game is only played in 2 dimensions, that way the graphics card can do its job properly and you get a perfect Stereo 3D effect.

You all would be better off spending your time complaining here about no OpenGL support and the lack of dev support for most games, if people complain enough they will sort it. OpenGL used to work fine a long time ago, how they managed to make things worse over time is beyond me =P
He mentioned putting a sprite on a 3D model. The moment you put a 'sprite' which is essentially a 2D picture, on a model, it ceases to be a sprite and instead becomes a texture...



Why do you keep asking each and every person if they have either seen 3D photo's or tell them to go stare at some? What is your point? You do know a 3D photo works exactly the same way as the computer 3D does? It isn't anything special, its just 2 photographs taken at slightly different angles to give the illusion of depth, it's not particularly complex or special, they could do it in the 1900's, probably much earlier lol.



If you want a 3D game to look hand drawn, then go the borderlands route. Why you would go to the effort of making a 2D game 3D is beyond me, by their very nature they cannot co-exist properly, it wouldn't look right at all and is seriously not worth the time.



"Fifth, it would be much easier to apply fake depth using a separate Z-depth channel image. The result would be identical but you'd have the advantage of the stereoscopic process being done at the driver level."



Shimakaze, this sounds more reasonable, but seriously, even then its of majorly limited use and would not give a very good 3D effect. Like you say, HUDS and icons are already bad enough as 2D objects as it is, and most game devs dont make the effort, nevermind a whole game like that.



Shamaroq, go play Trine, seriously, you'll see its just easier to make it in 3D even if the game is only played in 2 dimensions, that way the graphics card can do its job properly and you get a perfect Stereo 3D effect.



You all would be better off spending your time complaining here about no OpenGL support and the lack of dev support for most games, if people complain enough they will sort it. OpenGL used to work fine a long time ago, how they managed to make things worse over time is beyond me =P

#32
Posted 06/10/2011 09:35 AM   
[quote name='Eightball' date='10 June 2011 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1307698516' post='1250026']
You all would be better off spending your time complaining here about no OpenGL support and the lack of dev support for most games, if people complain enough they will sort it. OpenGL used to work fine a long time ago, how they managed to make things worse over time is beyond me =P
[/quote]
They're limiting that just to force people to buy expensive professional graphics cards. ;-)
[quote name='Eightball' date='10 June 2011 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1307698516' post='1250026']

You all would be better off spending your time complaining here about no OpenGL support and the lack of dev support for most games, if people complain enough they will sort it. OpenGL used to work fine a long time ago, how they managed to make things worse over time is beyond me =P



They're limiting that just to force people to buy expensive professional graphics cards. ;-)

#33
Posted 06/10/2011 11:41 AM   
[quote name='Shimakaze' date='10 June 2011 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1307706091' post='1250058']
They're limiting that just to force people to buy expensive professional graphics cards. ;-)
[/quote]


You mean the CAD cards? I forget their name now, Quaddro was it? Why would they make a feature like that exclusive?
[quote name='Shimakaze' date='10 June 2011 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1307706091' post='1250058']

They're limiting that just to force people to buy expensive professional graphics cards. ;-)







You mean the CAD cards? I forget their name now, Quaddro was it? Why would they make a feature like that exclusive?

#34
Posted 06/10/2011 01:10 PM   
[quote name='Eightball' date='10 June 2011 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1307711451' post='1250079']
You mean the CAD cards? I forget their name now, Quaddro was it? Why would they make a feature like that exclusive?
[/quote]
Because if they didn't 3d artists like me could just buy a cheap GeForce card and use that rather then having to buy a 10 times as expensive Quadro card just to be able to see 3d in OpenGL programs. Because they know we are willing to pay that much. Of course that's just my guess. There's no technical reason OpenGL isn't supported.
[quote name='Eightball' date='10 June 2011 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1307711451' post='1250079']

You mean the CAD cards? I forget their name now, Quaddro was it? Why would they make a feature like that exclusive?



Because if they didn't 3d artists like me could just buy a cheap GeForce card and use that rather then having to buy a 10 times as expensive Quadro card just to be able to see 3d in OpenGL programs. Because they know we are willing to pay that much. Of course that's just my guess. There's no technical reason OpenGL isn't supported.

#35
Posted 06/10/2011 01:27 PM   
I can be wrong but i don't think you can play doom3 quake4 etc opengl games even if using quadro cards(unless d3 and q4 supports quadbuffered 3d which professional apps do...). The support for opengl was removed when the nvidiaseries passed 8000 and above.
Curious: I recently saw someone mention that dual projectors are supported using quadro cards. Does it mean that you actually can game using 3d-vision and quadrocards with alternate 3d-hardwares or is it "only" about quadbuffered opengl?
I can be wrong but i don't think you can play doom3 quake4 etc opengl games even if using quadro cards(unless d3 and q4 supports quadbuffered 3d which professional apps do...). The support for opengl was removed when the nvidiaseries passed 8000 and above.

Curious: I recently saw someone mention that dual projectors are supported using quadro cards. Does it mean that you actually can game using 3d-vision and quadrocards with alternate 3d-hardwares or is it "only" about quadbuffered opengl?

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#36
Posted 06/10/2011 04:57 PM   
Should be easy to make a 3d desktop layer, it's the folder in your username label'd 'desktop', in c:\users\ typically. Load those icons on quads in 3d? oir perhaps map the 2d screens to many 2d objects in a 3d environment, i bet you can see like 200 text windows at once in real 3d pretty far away? also how about more 3d vision tools, to make more content? attach to visual studio or popular games to mod them into 3d
Should be easy to make a 3d desktop layer, it's the folder in your username label'd 'desktop', in c:\users\ typically. Load those icons on quads in 3d? oir perhaps map the 2d screens to many 2d objects in a 3d environment, i bet you can see like 200 text windows at once in real 3d pretty far away? also how about more 3d vision tools, to make more content? attach to visual studio or popular games to mod them into 3d

#37
Posted 06/11/2011 06:25 PM   
Should be easy to make a 3d desktop layer, it's the folder in your username label'd 'desktop', in c:\users\ typically. Load those icons on quads in 3d? oir perhaps map the 2d screens to many 2d objects in a 3d environment, i bet you can see like 200 text windows at once in real 3d pretty far away? also how about more 3d vision tools, to make more content? attach to visual studio or popular games to mod them into 3d
Should be easy to make a 3d desktop layer, it's the folder in your username label'd 'desktop', in c:\users\ typically. Load those icons on quads in 3d? oir perhaps map the 2d screens to many 2d objects in a 3d environment, i bet you can see like 200 text windows at once in real 3d pretty far away? also how about more 3d vision tools, to make more content? attach to visual studio or popular games to mod them into 3d

#38
Posted 06/11/2011 06:25 PM   
hi
i dont know if there is something like this but:

1. if you press *windows* (super) + *tap* in win 7 you get a 3d preview of all opend windowes
this culd be suportet frome 3d vision

2. i think in win7 ultimate and seperatly installable on the other versions there is somthing caled dream scene
[url="http://www.chip.de/downloads/DreamScene-fuer-Windows-7-64-Bit_40791067.html"]see here[/url] (videos as dektop background)
would be nice if dream scene suports sbs videos for 3d vision

3. a alternative too this idea would be only 3d background pictures (no videos)
hi

i dont know if there is something like this but:



1. if you press *windows* (super) + *tap* in win 7 you get a 3d preview of all opend windowes

this culd be suportet frome 3d vision



2. i think in win7 ultimate and seperatly installable on the other versions there is somthing caled dream scene

see here (videos as dektop background)

would be nice if dream scene suports sbs videos for 3d vision



3. a alternative too this idea would be only 3d background pictures (no videos)

#39
Posted 05/27/2012 04:23 PM   
I think the 1st idea is not bad, provided that it is well implemented. I can imagine a 3D desktop plenty of usefull things. The main problem I see is that Nvidia glasses are not enough confortable to use all the time. Actually, the "desktop" has not why to be a desktop, it could be a beautifull 3d room (or a house, why not?) plenty of detais and opened to different mod of the comunity, and you could walk like in any game (1sr or 3rd person), with different places to locate folders (real folders) and objects that represent information in your hard drive..., the space reserved for the music equipement with your "real" classified mp3 music, the room for watching movies with your "real" movies located each in his own space, etc (the strongbox with all your personal encrypted documents)... of course all this sounds like a freaky thing, but well implemented it could be also a better way to manage the computer, very esasy to remember where I put that document, it is like to convert the desktop into a game, why not?... at least it would be fun. It could be an external application, not why to be the OS.

Another thing I've read in this thread is the idea to add headtracking to the Nvidia glasses. I love fliying Microsoft FXS with Nvidia glasses, and I have to wear also a hat with the trackir clip (also two usb ports, one for each). Also it would be great an optional advanced Nvidia lighter glasses model that came with headtracking + bluetooth audio + microphone. The idea is to push a button and to have all in one, and with the same software (I use only one key to open all doors in my house).
I think the 1st idea is not bad, provided that it is well implemented. I can imagine a 3D desktop plenty of usefull things. The main problem I see is that Nvidia glasses are not enough confortable to use all the time. Actually, the "desktop" has not why to be a desktop, it could be a beautifull 3d room (or a house, why not?) plenty of detais and opened to different mod of the comunity, and you could walk like in any game (1sr or 3rd person), with different places to locate folders (real folders) and objects that represent information in your hard drive..., the space reserved for the music equipement with your "real" classified mp3 music, the room for watching movies with your "real" movies located each in his own space, etc (the strongbox with all your personal encrypted documents)... of course all this sounds like a freaky thing, but well implemented it could be also a better way to manage the computer, very esasy to remember where I put that document, it is like to convert the desktop into a game, why not?... at least it would be fun. It could be an external application, not why to be the OS.



Another thing I've read in this thread is the idea to add headtracking to the Nvidia glasses. I love fliying Microsoft FXS with Nvidia glasses, and I have to wear also a hat with the trackir clip (also two usb ports, one for each). Also it would be great an optional advanced Nvidia lighter glasses model that came with headtracking + bluetooth audio + microphone. The idea is to push a button and to have all in one, and with the same software (I use only one key to open all doors in my house).

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#40
Posted 05/27/2012 06:14 PM   
Looks pretty cool...

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/microsoft-3d-desktop-with-kinect-concept-revealed-1067021

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#41
Posted 05/27/2012 06:44 PM   
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