Deus Ex Human Revolution
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[quote name='Laast' date='23 August 2011 - 07:34 AM' timestamp='1314102845' post='1283060']
Not sure this is an ATI s trap. My point is developpers have otpimised the game for ATIs graphic cards/drivers (it's not a secret). So 3D stereo is enabled only for users with ATI hardware/software IN A FIRST TIME.

A patch could easily fix it, and that's why Andrew told us to ask devs to support 3DVision. In fact, the bad news is this "Enabling 3D Stereo": seems like "fake 3D" or Crysis 2-like... /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />
[/quote]

Guess I will just hold out buying this game until some work around is in place. Seems like a pretty stupid thing for a developer to do by limiting their 3d user base.
[quote name='Laast' date='23 August 2011 - 07:34 AM' timestamp='1314102845' post='1283060']

Not sure this is an ATI s trap. My point is developpers have otpimised the game for ATIs graphic cards/drivers (it's not a secret). So 3D stereo is enabled only for users with ATI hardware/software IN A FIRST TIME.



A patch could easily fix it, and that's why Andrew told us to ask devs to support 3DVision. In fact, the bad news is this "Enabling 3D Stereo": seems like "fake 3D" or Crysis 2-like... /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />





Guess I will just hold out buying this game until some work around is in place. Seems like a pretty stupid thing for a developer to do by limiting their 3d user base.

#46
Posted 08/23/2011 12:46 PM   
[quote name='Zloth' date='23 August 2011 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1314074437' post='1282905']
I have never seen this sort of threat work with any company ever. If you were Sony you might be able to pull this off but one customer? And HOW do you expect them to do that? Pay Square/Enix? Threaten them? Oh, but you want it FAST so having them do it via coding isn't going to work. I guess it's time to start sacrificing goats then....
[/quote]

You misunderstand.
I'm not making threats or attempting to appear melodramatic.
I know my statement will not alter Nvidia's policy.
But that is EXACTLY what it is. A statement. Of fact. Nothing more. Nothing less.
[quote name='Zloth' date='23 August 2011 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1314074437' post='1282905']

I have never seen this sort of threat work with any company ever. If you were Sony you might be able to pull this off but one customer? And HOW do you expect them to do that? Pay Square/Enix? Threaten them? Oh, but you want it FAST so having them do it via coding isn't going to work. I guess it's time to start sacrificing goats then....





You misunderstand.

I'm not making threats or attempting to appear melodramatic.

I know my statement will not alter Nvidia's policy.

But that is EXACTLY what it is. A statement. Of fact. Nothing more. Nothing less.

#47
Posted 08/23/2011 02:08 PM   
Yeah I was very disappointed when I unlocked my copy on Steam at 3 am this morning to find that the 3D option was disabled and that 3D vision seems to have been intentionally blocked from working. It worked more or less correctly with the beta but is completely non functional with the final product. The fact that it is reported to be fake 3D just makes it even more insulting. I'm getting 90-100 FPS in the game yet even if I had an AMD card I still wouldn't be able to get real 3D? Who is actually going to buy a 3D setup for PC from any manufacturer if you don't have the horsepower to actually play games in 3D except a number of titles I can count on a single hand that use the fake effects. Crysis 2 had the 3D developed for consoles and they just didn't bother giving PC the real thing. DXHR does not have 3D fake or otherwise on console so why shove it on PC gamers?
Yeah I was very disappointed when I unlocked my copy on Steam at 3 am this morning to find that the 3D option was disabled and that 3D vision seems to have been intentionally blocked from working. It worked more or less correctly with the beta but is completely non functional with the final product. The fact that it is reported to be fake 3D just makes it even more insulting. I'm getting 90-100 FPS in the game yet even if I had an AMD card I still wouldn't be able to get real 3D? Who is actually going to buy a 3D setup for PC from any manufacturer if you don't have the horsepower to actually play games in 3D except a number of titles I can count on a single hand that use the fake effects. Crysis 2 had the 3D developed for consoles and they just didn't bother giving PC the real thing. DXHR does not have 3D fake or otherwise on console so why shove it on PC gamers?

#48
Posted 08/23/2011 02:27 PM   
[quote name='sueil' date='23 August 2011 - 07:27 AM' timestamp='1314109630' post='1283121']
Yeah I was very disappointed when I unlocked my copy on Steam at 3 am this morning to find that the 3D option was disabled and that 3D vision seems to have been intentionally blocked from working. It worked more or less correctly with the beta but is completely non functional with the final product. The fact that it is reported to be fake 3D just makes it even more insulting. I'm getting 90-100 FPS in the game yet even if I had an AMD card I still wouldn't be able to get real 3D? Who is actually going to buy a 3D setup for PC from any manufacturer if you don't have the horsepower to actually play games in 3D except a number of titles I can count on a single hand that use the fake effects. Crysis 2 had the 3D developed for consoles and they just didn't bother giving PC the real thing. DXHR does not have 3D fake or otherwise on console so why shove it on PC gamers?
[/quote]

I don't know where people are saying the game has fake 3D on the ATI setups. I'll have to look into that. Crysis 2 wasn't fake at all. Just because it ran fast in 3D doesn't mean it's fake. I don't want a 50% framerate hit everytime I turn stereo on.

I've just purchased an HP ENVY 3D laptop with Radeon 6850M. When I get it, I'll post my impressions.
[quote name='sueil' date='23 August 2011 - 07:27 AM' timestamp='1314109630' post='1283121']

Yeah I was very disappointed when I unlocked my copy on Steam at 3 am this morning to find that the 3D option was disabled and that 3D vision seems to have been intentionally blocked from working. It worked more or less correctly with the beta but is completely non functional with the final product. The fact that it is reported to be fake 3D just makes it even more insulting. I'm getting 90-100 FPS in the game yet even if I had an AMD card I still wouldn't be able to get real 3D? Who is actually going to buy a 3D setup for PC from any manufacturer if you don't have the horsepower to actually play games in 3D except a number of titles I can count on a single hand that use the fake effects. Crysis 2 had the 3D developed for consoles and they just didn't bother giving PC the real thing. DXHR does not have 3D fake or otherwise on console so why shove it on PC gamers?





I don't know where people are saying the game has fake 3D on the ATI setups. I'll have to look into that. Crysis 2 wasn't fake at all. Just because it ran fast in 3D doesn't mean it's fake. I don't want a 50% framerate hit everytime I turn stereo on.



I've just purchased an HP ENVY 3D laptop with Radeon 6850M. When I get it, I'll post my impressions.

#49
Posted 08/23/2011 02:59 PM   
There may be a file to trick into thinking you have an amd card(like an .ini) I know for certain games that didnt think you had high enough audigy/direct x support you could modify it. Hopefully a solution would be found.
There may be a file to trick into thinking you have an amd card(like an .ini) I know for certain games that didnt think you had high enough audigy/direct x support you could modify it. Hopefully a solution would be found.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#50
Posted 08/23/2011 03:36 PM   
[quote name='Shaderhacker' date='23 August 2011 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1314111556' post='1283139']
I don't know where people are saying the game has fake 3D on the ATI setups. I'll have to look into that. Crysis 2 wasn't fake at all. Just because it ran fast in 3D doesn't mean it's fake. I don't want a 50% framerate hit everytime I turn stereo on.

I've just purchased an HP ENVY 3D laptop with Radeon 6850M. When I get it, I'll post my impressions.
[/quote]

It was fake in Crysis 2. Crytek themselves said so in an interview. It would take the same frame and offset it a few pixels then display that to the 2nd eye. Instead of the proper method of rendering two separate frames. It ran well because it was using a shortcut and had poor 3D because of this. Cryengine 3 has built in support for the real kind of 3D but for some reason they chose not to enable it on the PC version.
[quote name='Shaderhacker' date='23 August 2011 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1314111556' post='1283139']

I don't know where people are saying the game has fake 3D on the ATI setups. I'll have to look into that. Crysis 2 wasn't fake at all. Just because it ran fast in 3D doesn't mean it's fake. I don't want a 50% framerate hit everytime I turn stereo on.



I've just purchased an HP ENVY 3D laptop with Radeon 6850M. When I get it, I'll post my impressions.





It was fake in Crysis 2. Crytek themselves said so in an interview. It would take the same frame and offset it a few pixels then display that to the 2nd eye. Instead of the proper method of rendering two separate frames. It ran well because it was using a shortcut and had poor 3D because of this. Cryengine 3 has built in support for the real kind of 3D but for some reason they chose not to enable it on the PC version.

#51
Posted 08/23/2011 03:42 PM   
hopefully this is a timed exclusive and sooner or later a patch will fix it for 3d vision, it's hard to believe the games is 3d ready on ati and broken on 3d vision. If it doesn't get fixed for 3d vision I'm getting an ati card, I'm a deus ex fan and I know I want to play this game in 3d, who knows maybe some games that are broken on 3d vision work better with ati and maybe even they have opengl support.
hopefully this is a timed exclusive and sooner or later a patch will fix it for 3d vision, it's hard to believe the games is 3d ready on ati and broken on 3d vision. If it doesn't get fixed for 3d vision I'm getting an ati card, I'm a deus ex fan and I know I want to play this game in 3d, who knows maybe some games that are broken on 3d vision work better with ati and maybe even they have opengl support.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#52
Posted 08/23/2011 04:03 PM   
"Fake 3D" just means that devs put a "Stereo3D-FPS-Friendly" option in the game. Look at Crysis 2 3D process: flat depth, bad convergency, and of course no pop-out. BUT nice FPS...
No need to put such an option ingame for "real" 3D: a good 3D driver is enought...And we've never seen 3D Ready games with an "enable Stereo 3D" option.

So it's not a matter of graphic card manufacturers, devs just wants to keep an eye to their product and limit the loss of FPS in 3D by implementing a home-made 3D process. Nvidia or ATI can't do anything for 3D quality, even with a specific 3D driver...

With Deus Ex, devs have [i]apparently[/i] a home-made 3D option (like Crysis2), ATI cards-compatible but not Nvidia (for the moment). If it were "real" 3D (handled by 3D drivers), this game would run in 3D as usual with 3DVision (no glasses bug, forced 2D,...) and could have a real rating ( fair, good, excellent,...).

Just my point of view... /happy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':happy:' />
"Fake 3D" just means that devs put a "Stereo3D-FPS-Friendly" option in the game. Look at Crysis 2 3D process: flat depth, bad convergency, and of course no pop-out. BUT nice FPS...

No need to put such an option ingame for "real" 3D: a good 3D driver is enought...And we've never seen 3D Ready games with an "enable Stereo 3D" option.



So it's not a matter of graphic card manufacturers, devs just wants to keep an eye to their product and limit the loss of FPS in 3D by implementing a home-made 3D process. Nvidia or ATI can't do anything for 3D quality, even with a specific 3D driver...



With Deus Ex, devs have apparently a home-made 3D option (like Crysis2), ATI cards-compatible but not Nvidia (for the moment). If it were "real" 3D (handled by 3D drivers), this game would run in 3D as usual with 3DVision (no glasses bug, forced 2D,...) and could have a real rating ( fair, good, excellent,...).



Just my point of view... /happy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':happy:' />

#53
Posted 08/23/2011 04:07 PM   
[quote name='sueil' date='23 August 2011 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1314114132' post='1283158']
It was fake in Crysis 2. Crytek themselves said so in an interview. It would take the same frame and offset it a few pixels then display that to the 2nd eye. Instead of the proper method of rendering two separate frames. It ran well because it was using a shortcut and had poor 3D because of this. Cryengine 3 has built in support for the real kind of 3D but for some reason they chose not to enable it on the PC version.
[/quote]


I could care less how 3D is implemented as long as the illusion of depth is upheld - and it was. Crysis 2 has just as much depth as Bad Company 2. I played them both and I never feel the sense that I'm playing a 2D game with Crysis 2.

They can trick and make it run well all they want. That's probably better since the game would probably crawl on most people's computers in 3D if it was done the TRUE way. Look at Witcher 2. Not many people can play this game in 3D with all bells and whistles.. and I'm sure they had to "hack" it to make the framerates playable when they released the 1.3 patch.

-M
[quote name='sueil' date='23 August 2011 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1314114132' post='1283158']

It was fake in Crysis 2. Crytek themselves said so in an interview. It would take the same frame and offset it a few pixels then display that to the 2nd eye. Instead of the proper method of rendering two separate frames. It ran well because it was using a shortcut and had poor 3D because of this. Cryengine 3 has built in support for the real kind of 3D but for some reason they chose not to enable it on the PC version.







I could care less how 3D is implemented as long as the illusion of depth is upheld - and it was. Crysis 2 has just as much depth as Bad Company 2. I played them both and I never feel the sense that I'm playing a 2D game with Crysis 2.



They can trick and make it run well all they want. That's probably better since the game would probably crawl on most people's computers in 3D if it was done the TRUE way. Look at Witcher 2. Not many people can play this game in 3D with all bells and whistles.. and I'm sure they had to "hack" it to make the framerates playable when they released the 1.3 patch.



-M

#54
Posted 08/23/2011 04:36 PM   
[quote name='Shaderhacker' date='23 August 2011 - 11:36 AM' timestamp='1314117393' post='1283179']
I could care less how 3D is implemented as long as the illusion of depth is upheld - and it was. Crysis 2 has just as much depth as Bad Company 2. I played them both and I never feel the sense that I'm playing a 2D game with Crysis 2.

They can trick and make it run well all they want. That's probably better since the game would probably crawl on most people's computers in 3D if it was done the TRUE way. Look at Witcher 2. Not many people can play this game in 3D with all bells and whistles.. and I'm sure they had to "hack" it to make the framerates playable when they released the 1.3 patch.

-M
[/quote]

I agree totally. The polemic against Crysis 2's 3D has almost reached the status of exercising religion. Technically all this is "fake" 3D, the only real 3D is when I take off my glasses stroll through the park walking my dogs.
[quote name='Shaderhacker' date='23 August 2011 - 11:36 AM' timestamp='1314117393' post='1283179']

I could care less how 3D is implemented as long as the illusion of depth is upheld - and it was. Crysis 2 has just as much depth as Bad Company 2. I played them both and I never feel the sense that I'm playing a 2D game with Crysis 2.



They can trick and make it run well all they want. That's probably better since the game would probably crawl on most people's computers in 3D if it was done the TRUE way. Look at Witcher 2. Not many people can play this game in 3D with all bells and whistles.. and I'm sure they had to "hack" it to make the framerates playable when they released the 1.3 patch.



-M





I agree totally. The polemic against Crysis 2's 3D has almost reached the status of exercising religion. Technically all this is "fake" 3D, the only real 3D is when I take off my glasses stroll through the park walking my dogs.

#55
Posted 08/23/2011 05:33 PM   
[quote name='photios' date='23 August 2011 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1314120799' post='1283214']
I agree totally. The polemic against Crysis 2's 3D has almost reached the status of exercising religion. Technically all this is "fake" 3D, the only real 3D is when I take off my glasses stroll through the park walking my dogs.
[/quote]


The stereoscopic method used by Crysis 2, reprojection does not allow the level of depth or convergence (pop-out) that full dual-image stereoscopic methods (e.g. 3DVision) are capable of. At higher settings of depth and convergence certain rendering artifacts caused by the reprojection method would be very apparent. Consequently, the devs limit depth and convergence when using reprojection.

Reprojection results in less performance decrease (fps)than full dual-image stereoscopy.
However the new Crytek engine is very efficient and most midrange graphics cards could deliver very good framerate using dual-image stereo.

A good stereoscopic rendering (dual image) will look very realistic, a real object at a real distance from the user.
Reprojective stereo, with its low convergence and depth, does not provide this and consequently looks "fake".

Sadly the Crytek devs have somehow disabled the use of full dual-image stereo as an option.
Worse, In Deus Ex devs have also completely disabled use of Nvidia cards for stereo rendering solution.
This may be under the guise of using reprojection, which is a poor stereo solution in the first place.

I am not buying this game until it works with 3DVision.
[quote name='photios' date='23 August 2011 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1314120799' post='1283214']

I agree totally. The polemic against Crysis 2's 3D has almost reached the status of exercising religion. Technically all this is "fake" 3D, the only real 3D is when I take off my glasses stroll through the park walking my dogs.







The stereoscopic method used by Crysis 2, reprojection does not allow the level of depth or convergence (pop-out) that full dual-image stereoscopic methods (e.g. 3DVision) are capable of. At higher settings of depth and convergence certain rendering artifacts caused by the reprojection method would be very apparent. Consequently, the devs limit depth and convergence when using reprojection.



Reprojection results in less performance decrease (fps)than full dual-image stereoscopy.

However the new Crytek engine is very efficient and most midrange graphics cards could deliver very good framerate using dual-image stereo.



A good stereoscopic rendering (dual image) will look very realistic, a real object at a real distance from the user.

Reprojective stereo, with its low convergence and depth, does not provide this and consequently looks "fake".



Sadly the Crytek devs have somehow disabled the use of full dual-image stereo as an option.

Worse, In Deus Ex devs have also completely disabled use of Nvidia cards for stereo rendering solution.

This may be under the guise of using reprojection, which is a poor stereo solution in the first place.



I am not buying this game until it works with 3DVision.

#56
Posted 08/23/2011 05:56 PM   
It would have been nice to have been given the option to use true dual rendering 3D for Crysis 2 but I suspect it would have looked as bad as the original Crysis, with 2D shadows and whatnot. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and in my opinion, the 3D used in that game was inferior to what we can normally achieve.

Wasn't Dragon Age 2 another AMD 3D game? At least it was playable to some extent, but combat was hard with the 2D cursor and the sky wasn't rendering properly.

Back on topic, it would be nice if Andrew commented on this. Maybe a driver will help but since the devs are in bed with AMD on this game, we may be out of luck.
It would have been nice to have been given the option to use true dual rendering 3D for Crysis 2 but I suspect it would have looked as bad as the original Crysis, with 2D shadows and whatnot. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and in my opinion, the 3D used in that game was inferior to what we can normally achieve.



Wasn't Dragon Age 2 another AMD 3D game? At least it was playable to some extent, but combat was hard with the 2D cursor and the sky wasn't rendering properly.



Back on topic, it would be nice if Andrew commented on this. Maybe a driver will help but since the devs are in bed with AMD on this game, we may be out of luck.

#57
Posted 08/23/2011 06:01 PM   
[quote name='baragon' date='23 August 2011 - 10:56 AM' timestamp='1314122186' post='1283222']
The stereoscopic method used by Crysis 2, reprojection does not allow the level of depth or convergence (pop-out) that full dual-image stereoscopic methods (e.g. 3DVision) are capable of. At higher settings of depth and convergence certain rendering artifacts caused by the reprojection method would be very apparent. Consequently, the devs limit depth and convergence when using reprojection.[/quote]

You may not have custom controls to modify the image, but neither do you have them while watching a movie. We set the convergence and depth ourselves and it's locked. The viewer still gets the impression of depth. Some more than others, but that's just life.

[quote]
Reprojection results in less performance decrease (fps)than full dual-image stereoscopy.
However the new Crytek engine is very efficient and most midrange graphics cards could deliver very good framerate using dual-image stereo.[/quote]

I disagree. With the DX11 + High res texture pack, most video cards will be hard pressed maintaining 30fps on EXTREME with no SLI/Crossfire configuration.


[quote]
Reprojective stereo, with its low convergence and depth, does not provide this and consequently looks "fake".[/quote]

And this is your problem.. the convergence and depth are locked! Not that it's fake.

[quote]
I am not buying this game until it works with 3DVision.
[/quote]

Well, just hope that it's not locked! Remember, Witcher 2 is also "locked" and only is customizable because someone found you can hack the init.ini file.

-M
[quote name='baragon' date='23 August 2011 - 10:56 AM' timestamp='1314122186' post='1283222']

The stereoscopic method used by Crysis 2, reprojection does not allow the level of depth or convergence (pop-out) that full dual-image stereoscopic methods (e.g. 3DVision) are capable of. At higher settings of depth and convergence certain rendering artifacts caused by the reprojection method would be very apparent. Consequently, the devs limit depth and convergence when using reprojection.



You may not have custom controls to modify the image, but neither do you have them while watching a movie. We set the convergence and depth ourselves and it's locked. The viewer still gets the impression of depth. Some more than others, but that's just life.





Reprojection results in less performance decrease (fps)than full dual-image stereoscopy.

However the new Crytek engine is very efficient and most midrange graphics cards could deliver very good framerate using dual-image stereo.




I disagree. With the DX11 + High res texture pack, most video cards will be hard pressed maintaining 30fps on EXTREME with no SLI/Crossfire configuration.







Reprojective stereo, with its low convergence and depth, does not provide this and consequently looks "fake".




And this is your problem.. the convergence and depth are locked! Not that it's fake.





I am not buying this game until it works with 3DVision.





Well, just hope that it's not locked! Remember, Witcher 2 is also "locked" and only is customizable because someone found you can hack the init.ini file.



-M

#58
Posted 08/23/2011 06:14 PM   
Could someone who owns the game try to run it with the iZ3D driver, please? If the iZ3D driver isn't locked by the game we could use the 3DVision/iZ3D combination to play the game in S3D...
Could someone who owns the game try to run it with the iZ3D driver, please? If the iZ3D driver isn't locked by the game we could use the 3DVision/iZ3D combination to play the game in S3D...

My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!

#59
Posted 08/23/2011 07:09 PM   
[quote name='3d4dd' date='23 August 2011 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1314126544' post='1283255']
Could someone who owns the game try to run it with the iZ3D driver, please? If the iZ3D driver isn't locked by the game we could use the 3DVision/iZ3D combination to play the game in S3D...
[/quote]


Good idea.
[quote name='3d4dd' date='23 August 2011 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1314126544' post='1283255']

Could someone who owns the game try to run it with the iZ3D driver, please? If the iZ3D driver isn't locked by the game we could use the 3DVision/iZ3D combination to play the game in S3D...







Good idea.

#60
Posted 08/23/2011 07:16 PM   
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