1080p in 3D at 60hz, when? and how will we know?
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Heh - if it weren't for the "legal garbage" then nobody would have any incentive to make these new formats in the first place.
Heh - if it weren't for the "legal garbage" then nobody would have any incentive to make these new formats in the first place.

#16
Posted 05/22/2011 07:15 PM   
[quote name='micham11' date='22 May 2011 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1306051364' post='1240751']
If legal garbage has been preventing me from gaming with an acceptable 1080p 3d format (sorry roller) on a large screen tv for over two years.... then may god have mercy on us all.
[/quote]

Yeah, there are moments when i'd like to show lazy/selfish/irresponsible/whatever sheep that there are wolves using their products..........and spending gobs of time troubleshooting their products, investigating their products, waiting for updates to their products, waiting for support for their products...

(not aimed specifically at Nvidia)
[quote name='micham11' date='22 May 2011 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1306051364' post='1240751']

If legal garbage has been preventing me from gaming with an acceptable 1080p 3d format (sorry roller) on a large screen tv for over two years.... then may god have mercy on us all.





Yeah, there are moments when i'd like to show lazy/selfish/irresponsible/whatever sheep that there are wolves using their products..........and spending gobs of time troubleshooting their products, investigating their products, waiting for updates to their products, waiting for support for their products...



(not aimed specifically at Nvidia)

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#17
Posted 05/23/2011 12:36 AM   
its not like their 4K stuff is any good either , lol

http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2011/05/22/misuse_of_3_d_digital_lens_leaves_2_d_movies_in_the_dark/?page=full

[quote]The reason appears to be a basic business quid pro quo. Sony provides projectors to the chains for free in exchange for the theaters dedicating part of their preshow ads to Sony products. Unfortunately, the 3-D boom took off in late 2009 and Sony had to come up with a retrofitted solution. Said the Phantom Projectionist, “To me it feels like they’re serving people pigeon burgers and telling them its grade-A beef.’’
[/quote]
[quote]Herb Nipson agrees, and with four decades experience as a Boston-area projectionist he’s worth listening to. “I think audiences have to be a lot more proactive now,’’ he said, “because audiences are the only group that has any real concern for the quality of the image. They’re the only ones watching it.’’[/quote]

what a joke of a company!! And they are working to eliminate analog interconnects , so they can have their DRM in place . What a joke x2.

Too bad even super secure SACD is going down for Sony, hahah. Maybe hackers open source some RAMDAC design in the future, too.
its not like their 4K stuff is any good either , lol



http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2011/05/22/misuse_of_3_d_digital_lens_leaves_2_d_movies_in_the_dark/?page=full



The reason appears to be a basic business quid pro quo. Sony provides projectors to the chains for free in exchange for the theaters dedicating part of their preshow ads to Sony products. Unfortunately, the 3-D boom took off in late 2009 and Sony had to come up with a retrofitted solution. Said the Phantom Projectionist, “To me it feels like they’re serving people pigeon burgers and telling them its grade-A beef.’’



Herb Nipson agrees, and with four decades experience as a Boston-area projectionist he’s worth listening to. “I think audiences have to be a lot more proactive now,’’ he said, “because audiences are the only group that has any real concern for the quality of the image. They’re the only ones watching it.’’




what a joke of a company!! And they are working to eliminate analog interconnects , so they can have their DRM in place . What a joke x2.



Too bad even super secure SACD is going down for Sony, hahah. Maybe hackers open source some RAMDAC design in the future, too.

#18
Posted 05/23/2011 05:56 AM   
[quote] In RAMDAC design, its spec need a 17~19mA current to drive
an 37 Ohm resistor (double terminaled by 75 Ohm).
In general design, we will use a V to I circuit to generate a current
source and mirror it to a set of current cell controlled by the
opposite digital code.
So if you want to design this VGA DAC, I think you may change your
design meet the output current requirment. Becuase you will find
many issue when you need to operate in high speed.
And also remeber you will need three DACs for R G B channel.[/quote]

Currently over 120hz at fullHD is possible with VGA, i think with an outboard RAMDAC , over 800mhz pixel clock is possible for something like 2560*1440 * 240hz .

Also with a cool display, you dont have latency, only latency should be the 240hz upconversion (2x 120hz), for 2-3ms.

Hacker guys, help us!
In RAMDAC design, its spec need a 17~19mA current to drive

an 37 Ohm resistor (double terminaled by 75 Ohm).

In general design, we will use a V to I circuit to generate a current

source and mirror it to a set of current cell controlled by the

opposite digital code.

So if you want to design this VGA DAC, I think you may change your

design meet the output current requirment. Becuase you will find

many issue when you need to operate in high speed.

And also remeber you will need three DACs for R G B channel.




Currently over 120hz at fullHD is possible with VGA, i think with an outboard RAMDAC , over 800mhz pixel clock is possible for something like 2560*1440 * 240hz .



Also with a cool display, you dont have latency, only latency should be the 240hz upconversion (2x 120hz), for 2-3ms.



Hacker guys, help us!

#19
Posted 05/23/2011 10:12 AM   
Well, heres a clue:

[quote][url="http://cts.businesswire.com/ct/CT?id=smartlink&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.siliconimage.com%2F&esheet=6736431&lan=en-US&anchor=Silicon+Image&index=1&md5=0b6899b1d92ab6bd8a2c0289aa64c7f1"]Silicon Image[/url] (NASDAQ:SIMG), a leading provider of wired and wireless HD connectivity solutions, today announced two port processors, the SiI9587-3 and SiI9589-3, and the SiI9136-3 HDMI transmitter—all supporting HDMI[sup]®[/sup] 1.4a with 300MHz speeds. Next-generation consumer electronics (CE) products – such as 4Kx2K DTVs, 4Kx2K camcorders, and 3D gaming systems – are expected to support 300MHz HDMI interfaces to transmit and display the latest 4K content and high frame-rate 1080p full HD 3D games.“Silicon Image has shipped over 100 million port processors to the world’s top DTV manufacturers,” said Alex Chervet, senior director of DTV and home theater products at Silicon Image, Inc. “Our close collaboration with our customers has ensured that each successive generation of our port processors continues to deliver the innovative features and performance needed to meet the requirements of tomorrow’s CE devices. These new 300MHz port processors continue our tradition of providing leading-edge technology — representing the industry’s most advanced solutions for HDMI and MHL connectivity. Together, the SiI9587-3 and SiI9589-3 port processors and SiI9136-3 transmitter enable an end-to-end 300MHz solution to support next-generation DTVs and source devices.”

The SiI9587-3 and SiI9589-3 products also incorporate Silicon Image’s industry-leading InstaPort™ S technology, which enables port-to-port switching times of less than one second. Both parts fully integrate Audio Return Channel and are compatible with the growing number of MHL™- (Mobile High-Definition Link) enabled smartphones and tablets. MHL technology enables the display of HD content from a mobile device to an MHL-enabled display, while simultaneously permitting consumers to control and charge the mobile device.The SiI9136-3 HDMI 1.4a transmitter supports 300MHz operation and is ideally suited for audio/video receivers, game consoles, PC graphics adapters and Blu-ray Disc™ players designed to send high frame-rate or 4K content.The SiI9587-3, SiI9589-3 and SiI9136-3 are sampling now.Datasheet can be provided at the manufacturer or on sales represntative,[/quote]

http://www.chipjournal.com/2011/05/silicon-image-introduces-300mhz-port.html
Well, heres a clue:



Silicon Image (NASDAQ:SIMG), a leading provider of wired and wireless HD connectivity solutions, today announced two port processors, the SiI9587-3 and SiI9589-3, and the SiI9136-3 HDMI transmitter—all supporting HDMI[sup]®[/sup] 1.4a with 300MHz speeds. Next-generation consumer electronics (CE) products – such as 4Kx2K DTVs, 4Kx2K camcorders, and 3D gaming systems – are expected to support 300MHz HDMI interfaces to transmit and display the latest 4K content and high frame-rate 1080p full HD 3D games.“Silicon Image has shipped over 100 million port processors to the world’s top DTV manufacturers,” said Alex Chervet, senior director of DTV and home theater products at Silicon Image, Inc. “Our close collaboration with our customers has ensured that each successive generation of our port processors continues to deliver the innovative features and performance needed to meet the requirements of tomorrow’s CE devices. These new 300MHz port processors continue our tradition of providing leading-edge technology — representing the industry’s most advanced solutions for HDMI and MHL connectivity. Together, the SiI9587-3 and SiI9589-3 port processors and SiI9136-3 transmitter enable an end-to-end 300MHz solution to support next-generation DTVs and source devices.”



The SiI9587-3 and SiI9589-3 products also incorporate Silicon Image’s industry-leading InstaPort™ S technology, which enables port-to-port switching times of less than one second. Both parts fully integrate Audio Return Channel and are compatible with the growing number of MHL™- (Mobile High-Definition Link) enabled smartphones and tablets. MHL technology enables the display of HD content from a mobile device to an MHL-enabled display, while simultaneously permitting consumers to control and charge the mobile device.The SiI9136-3 HDMI 1.4a transmitter supports 300MHz operation and is ideally suited for audio/video receivers, game consoles, PC graphics adapters and Blu-ray Disc™ players designed to send high frame-rate or 4K content.The SiI9587-3, SiI9589-3 and SiI9136-3 are sampling now.Datasheet can be provided at the manufacturer or on sales represntative,




http://www.chipjournal.com/2011/05/silicon-image-introduces-300mhz-port.html

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#20
Posted 05/31/2011 05:35 AM   
[quote name='crim3' date='19 May 2011 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1305788043' post='1239397']As far as I know, the bottleneck is the the pitiful HDMI industry standard. Those cumbersome and expensive cables have not enough bandwidth to faithfuly transmit side by side stereo at 1080p.[/quote]
Wikipedia says HDMI 1.0 has 4.9 Gbit/s bandwidth with 3.96 Gbit/s reserved for video (with up to 10.2 Gbit/s in HDMI 1.3). Some simple math shows that at 1920x1080 at 120 Hz, 3.96 Gbit/s is sufficient for 15.9bpp color uncompressed, or 19.7bpp if all bandwidth was used for video. This means the HDMI standard could have easily supported 1080p at 2x60Hz, 15bpp color, and some small tweaks to the standard could achieve 16bpp 5-6-5.

Of course, with "Category 2" HDMI cable it would be easy to support 30bpp color uncompressed at 1920x1080x120Hz. But if the HDMI standard incorporated some very simple compression, it could achieve 24bpp color with ordinary cables and HDMI 1.0 signalling hardware.

We're probably going to return our new 51" 3D HDTV because it can't realistically do gaming at 1080p. How could the HDMI standards people not see any value in stereoscopic 1080p gaming?
[quote name='crim3' date='19 May 2011 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1305788043' post='1239397']As far as I know, the bottleneck is the the pitiful HDMI industry standard. Those cumbersome and expensive cables have not enough bandwidth to faithfuly transmit side by side stereo at 1080p.

Wikipedia says HDMI 1.0 has 4.9 Gbit/s bandwidth with 3.96 Gbit/s reserved for video (with up to 10.2 Gbit/s in HDMI 1.3). Some simple math shows that at 1920x1080 at 120 Hz, 3.96 Gbit/s is sufficient for 15.9bpp color uncompressed, or 19.7bpp if all bandwidth was used for video. This means the HDMI standard could have easily supported 1080p at 2x60Hz, 15bpp color, and some small tweaks to the standard could achieve 16bpp 5-6-5.



Of course, with "Category 2" HDMI cable it would be easy to support 30bpp color uncompressed at 1920x1080x120Hz. But if the HDMI standard incorporated some very simple compression, it could achieve 24bpp color with ordinary cables and HDMI 1.0 signalling hardware.



We're probably going to return our new 51" 3D HDTV because it can't realistically do gaming at 1080p. How could the HDMI standards people not see any value in stereoscopic 1080p gaming?

#21
Posted 05/31/2011 05:02 PM   
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