Grainy Texture (Horizontal Lines) When In 3D Mode Samsung 2233RZ 22-inch Bundle
4 / 11
Hi,
I also got my samsung 2233 today and can also verify that these "scanlines" occurs.
Must be a driver thing though, since at 120hz without S3D enabled they do not occur in any games at all.
A major annoyance, especially if Nvidia won't even acknowledge the problem, other than trying to point at samsung instead. :(
I'm sorry you do not appreciate my assistance in these forums. I always try to help as best as I can and try as hard as I can to give you definite answers.
You have some issues here and I will comment on what I can.
- RMA: if you are having trouble with RMA, PM me your email address and I can look into it with the support team
- Horizontal lines. This issue truly does sound like a monitor issue, that can be addressed with an RMA.
- World of Warcraft UI issues. There is a [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=100291"]thread here[/url] that I had referred the user to two different ideas. There is a KB article we wrote on the [url="http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2409&p_created=1245444877&p_sid=Ak_K7gBj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=2328&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9MTMyJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9MS4xMzImcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXdhcmNyYWZ0&p_li=&p_topview=1"]WoW UI issues that is related to convergence[/url]. Take a read, as I think this can fix your issues.[/quote]
Well, let me start by apologizing to you Andrew. It isn't personal, and I do appreciate your assistance on these forums. Sometimes a frustration at a company or a product can easily be directed at the spokesperson -- so you are on the hook for that role. :-) (Boy, you must go home hating your job, sorry.)
Your solution to my Warcraft "stretched UI" issue worked like a charm! Woot. Ok, I owe you a beer, this was much better than a reboot and hold your breath solution. I'm happily proved wrong in this case because it exactly fixed that issue.
The horizontal line issue: I'd be happy to do an RMA and try a different monitor. I'll send you my e-mail in a PM and work with you to fix it. Honestly, though, many people have complained about this issue with the Samsung 2233RZ, so are you sure it isn't just a problem with the monitor "in general", rather than my specific unit? (A problem with the SKU, not the individual Serial Number?) My plan, at some point, was to give the ViewSonic brand a chance, and see if it suffered the same issue. I can't imagine so many people having problems with this SamSung monitor if we just got unlucky. Maybe most people don't notice? Or we are overly sensitive?
Anyway, thank you for your help. I'm still not 100% happy with these 3D glasses, but I shouldn't have directed my frustration at you personally. I meant, more you as in the spokesperson for the company. :-) Just step aside and let the criticism pass through to the engineering team. :-P
I'm sorry you do not appreciate my assistance in these forums. I always try to help as best as I can and try as hard as I can to give you definite answers.
You have some issues here and I will comment on what I can.
- RMA: if you are having trouble with RMA, PM me your email address and I can look into it with the support team
- Horizontal lines. This issue truly does sound like a monitor issue, that can be addressed with an RMA.
- World of Warcraft UI issues. There is a thread here that I had referred the user to two different ideas. There is a KB article we wrote on the WoW UI issues that is related to convergence. Take a read, as I think this can fix your issues.
Well, let me start by apologizing to you Andrew. It isn't personal, and I do appreciate your assistance on these forums. Sometimes a frustration at a company or a product can easily be directed at the spokesperson -- so you are on the hook for that role. :-) (Boy, you must go home hating your job, sorry.)
Your solution to my Warcraft "stretched UI" issue worked like a charm! Woot. Ok, I owe you a beer, this was much better than a reboot and hold your breath solution. I'm happily proved wrong in this case because it exactly fixed that issue.
The horizontal line issue: I'd be happy to do an RMA and try a different monitor. I'll send you my e-mail in a PM and work with you to fix it. Honestly, though, many people have complained about this issue with the Samsung 2233RZ, so are you sure it isn't just a problem with the monitor "in general", rather than my specific unit? (A problem with the SKU, not the individual Serial Number?) My plan, at some point, was to give the ViewSonic brand a chance, and see if it suffered the same issue. I can't imagine so many people having problems with this SamSung monitor if we just got unlucky. Maybe most people don't notice? Or we are overly sensitive?
Anyway, thank you for your help. I'm still not 100% happy with these 3D glasses, but I shouldn't have directed my frustration at you personally. I meant, more you as in the spokesperson for the company. :-) Just step aside and let the criticism pass through to the engineering team. :-P
Here is an example of what the horizontal lines look like. This is a screenshot of the chat window in World of Warcraft. I have stereo disabled with ctrl-t but the horizontal lines are still visible since 3D mode is still enabled. You can see the effect in the blue area around the word "visit". The gamma value seems to go bright then dark every other pixel (vertically):
Here is an example of what the horizontal lines look like. This is a screenshot of the chat window in World of Warcraft. I have stereo disabled with ctrl-t but the horizontal lines are still visible since 3D mode is still enabled. You can see the effect in the blue area around the word "visit". The gamma value seems to go bright then dark every other pixel (vertically):
[quote name='liquor beard' post='561943' date='Jul 5 2009, 08:29 PM']Here is an example of what the horizontal lines look like. This is a screenshot of the chat window in World of Warcraft. I have stereo disabled with ctrl-t but the horizontal lines are still visible since 3D mode is still enabled. You can see the effect in the blue area around the word "visit". The gamma value seems to go bright then dark every other pixel (vertically):[/quote]
Yes, that's exactly what mine looks like too. You can't quite tell in that picture but those horizontal-gamma-lines encompass the whole screen from top to bottom (every odd line is a lighter hue in color). I tried taking a picture of my screen too but the picture came out too blurry to see them. I can't see this as being a monitor issue as when the 3d part of the driver is disabled the lines go away entirely even in 120Hz mode. It seems like there's a bug in the 3d driver code that makes every odd line have a lighter gamma then every even line, thereby looking like you have horizontal lines all over your screen. I wish Nvidia would at least test some Samsung 2233RZ monitors and confirm if they do or do not also observe this behavior.
[quote name='liquor beard' post='561943' date='Jul 5 2009, 08:29 PM']Here is an example of what the horizontal lines look like. This is a screenshot of the chat window in World of Warcraft. I have stereo disabled with ctrl-t but the horizontal lines are still visible since 3D mode is still enabled. You can see the effect in the blue area around the word "visit". The gamma value seems to go bright then dark every other pixel (vertically):
Yes, that's exactly what mine looks like too. You can't quite tell in that picture but those horizontal-gamma-lines encompass the whole screen from top to bottom (every odd line is a lighter hue in color). I tried taking a picture of my screen too but the picture came out too blurry to see them. I can't see this as being a monitor issue as when the 3d part of the driver is disabled the lines go away entirely even in 120Hz mode. It seems like there's a bug in the 3d driver code that makes every odd line have a lighter gamma then every even line, thereby looking like you have horizontal lines all over your screen. I wish Nvidia would at least test some Samsung 2233RZ monitors and confirm if they do or do not also observe this behavior.
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='561963' date='Jul 5 2009, 06:58 PM']Yes, that's exactly what mine looks like too. You can't quite tell in that picture but those horizontal-gamma-lines encompass the whole screen from top to bottom (every odd line is a lighter hue in color). I tried taking a picture of my screen too but the picture came out too blurry to see them. I can't see this as being a monitor issue as when the 3d part of the driver is disabled the lines go away entirely even in 120Hz mode. It seems like there's a bug in the 3d driver code that makes every odd line have a lighter gamma then every even line, thereby looking like you have horizontal lines all over your screen. I wish Nvidia would at least test some Samsung 2233RZ monitors and confirm if they do or do not also observe this behavior.[/quote]
Well either way I'm going to be a guinea pig and RMA mine per Andrew's advice. I'm currently waiting for return authorization from Nvidia. Check out Trek's post on the 20th:
[i]"I do believe that you see implementation of monitor dual rendering engine and that this is not good. Because I do not see this on my monitor. I got top quality monitor [b][color="#FF0000"](I RMAed one)[/color][/b] with almost none backlight bleeding. I think that if you see interlacing on desktop or lcd test images that you should RMA such a monitor."[/i]
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='561963' date='Jul 5 2009, 06:58 PM']Yes, that's exactly what mine looks like too. You can't quite tell in that picture but those horizontal-gamma-lines encompass the whole screen from top to bottom (every odd line is a lighter hue in color). I tried taking a picture of my screen too but the picture came out too blurry to see them. I can't see this as being a monitor issue as when the 3d part of the driver is disabled the lines go away entirely even in 120Hz mode. It seems like there's a bug in the 3d driver code that makes every odd line have a lighter gamma then every even line, thereby looking like you have horizontal lines all over your screen. I wish Nvidia would at least test some Samsung 2233RZ monitors and confirm if they do or do not also observe this behavior.
Well either way I'm going to be a guinea pig and RMA mine per Andrew's advice. I'm currently waiting for return authorization from Nvidia. Check out Trek's post on the 20th:
"I do believe that you see implementation of monitor dual rendering engine and that this is not good. Because I do not see this on my monitor. I got top quality monitor (I RMAed one) with almost none backlight bleeding. I think that if you see interlacing on desktop or lcd test images that you should RMA such a monitor."
[quote name='Metyx' post='562361' date='Jul 6 2009, 04:34 PM']liquor beard: If you do RMA your monitor -- I would appreciate any feedback you have regarding the experience and the outcome (good OR bad). Thanks!
This, of course, goes for anyone else who may also have information.[/quote]
You betcha. I'll be posting the results in this thread.
[quote name='Metyx' post='562361' date='Jul 6 2009, 04:34 PM']liquor beard: If you do RMA your monitor -- I would appreciate any feedback you have regarding the experience and the outcome (good OR bad). Thanks!
This, of course, goes for anyone else who may also have information.
You betcha. I'll be posting the results in this thread.
Finally I have had the time to do some testing and I wanted to put here some photos in order to make it clear, doubtless and free of subjective interpretation about the look of the problem/screen, at least, as much as possible.
So I have tested Left4Dead (L4D), Cooliris and Call of Duty World at War (CODWW), with 168.18 and Windows 7 RC 7100. Note though that the problem was there even with the 185.85...
I have made two shots for each application/game:
1- the [b]first [/b]one is with [b]stereo OFF in Nvidia control panel[/b],
2- the [b]second [/b]is with [b]stereo ON in Nvidia control panel but desactivated via emitter or Ctrl+T.[/b]
First I post the full photos reduced to a 33%, and then a crop at 100% without modification. I shot the photos with a SLR Canon 50D and 17-55IS (very sharp lens) and in tripod. Even with that there is a slight blur in some photo, but nothing serious (the tripod was not good and I had not much time to repeat shots). Please click in the top bar in each photo to see the difference better.
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Left 4 Dead (partial menu screen):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139099.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139100.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139106.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139108.jpg[/img]
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Cooliris (up right corner):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139101.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139102.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139109.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139110.jpg[/img]
Finally I have had the time to do some testing and I wanted to put here some photos in order to make it clear, doubtless and free of subjective interpretation about the look of the problem/screen, at least, as much as possible.
So I have tested Left4Dead (L4D), Cooliris and Call of Duty World at War (CODWW), with 168.18 and Windows 7 RC 7100. Note though that the problem was there even with the 185.85...
I have made two shots for each application/game:
1- the first one is with stereo OFF in Nvidia control panel,
2- the second is with stereo ON in Nvidia control panel but desactivated via emitter or Ctrl+T.
First I post the full photos reduced to a 33%, and then a crop at 100% without modification. I shot the photos with a SLR Canon 50D and 17-55IS (very sharp lens) and in tripod. Even with that there is a slight blur in some photo, but nothing serious (the tripod was not good and I had not much time to repeat shots). Please click in the top bar in each photo to see the difference better.
Left 4 Dead (partial menu screen):
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
Cooliris (up right corner):
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
(Continue in the next post)
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Call of Duty World at War (menu up right corner):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139103.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139104.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139111.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139112.jpg[/img]
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Call of Duty World at War (Stalingrad sniper mision, up right corner):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][size=3]Please note that in one photo the window glass was broken and in the other not, thus the clearer and more contrasted image versus the other)[/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139105.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139107.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139113.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139114.jpg[/img]
Well, I have to say that, in full screen it is even a bit worse, but on the other hand with the glasses on, it gets a bit less evident, except on text and especially in cooliris, which for me is a turn off.
What I would like now is to ask Andrew to have a confirmation word from him (or Nvidia), telling that it is the drivers or otherwise if it isn't, or if it is as expected.
It doesn't seems logical keeping people RMAing LCDs only because there is not a clear answer. You have been very kind to answer here and to check some problems with your team, this check is the most easy of which you have done. So I pray you to inform us about that situation, if you can. It is sure that NVIDIA has Samsung 2233RZ monitors to check, so this is not the problem, and of course nvidia has 3D Vision sets to test too.
Only a word as, for example "we have tested and didn't found the problem. you should RMA the screen", or "we have tested and found that behaviour, we are looking into that and we will inform", or "that's normal behaviour because of current 120 Hz LCD technologies, in future it should improve", etc. I guess you get the point. A lot of people here don't want to send back a LCD (shipping cost and stay without screen during maybe weeks), only because "it could be" the screen.
For the rest of the community, I think that now that we know how it is the "problem" everybody with 3D Vision kit (samsung or viewsonic too) could check if they see what is shown in the photos of this thread and post back. You know, if everybody sees that, then it seems a problem with LCD technology or nvidia drivers, but not faulty units...Please, check and post back your results.
Now that we have more photo references I would love to see someone posting here and telling "I have checked that and I have not that problem, see that photo".
Personally, as the LCD can do 2D 120 Hz without that effect, I think the problem is linked to the way the stereo mode is activated [b]inside[/b] the monitor. You know I refer to the "stereo mode in the Samsung" that Andrew talked about, not the stereo mode of the drivers (which double the image, control de glasses, etc). Some command/order is sent to the LCD in order to apply that stereo mode (which involves the 100% brightness thing, too). Is the way drivers ask to do that to the LCD hardware? or is the circuitry inside the screen which do not perform that in the best way? Maybe is the last thing and it is not fixable with firmware, that would mean to change some hundreds (thousand of screens?). Is it because of that that neither samsung nor nvidia (as a partner) do not explain sincerely the situation? If that is the situation, then I understand Andrew only "suggesting" in an ambigous way to change the monitor. He is hands tied. If that is the case, Andrew, please excuse me, I understand your situation.
If liquor beard receives a LCD without that problem, then I would guess that it was the second problem I just referred and that samsung are only exchanging monitors to people that asks for that. I anticipate liquor_beard experience, if it works, I know who is going to ask for a RMA at light speed ;)
Call of Duty World at War (Stalingrad sniper mision, up right corner):
Please note that in one photo the window glass was broken and in the other not, thus the clearer and more contrasted image versus the other)
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
Well, I have to say that, in full screen it is even a bit worse, but on the other hand with the glasses on, it gets a bit less evident, except on text and especially in cooliris, which for me is a turn off.
What I would like now is to ask Andrew to have a confirmation word from him (or Nvidia), telling that it is the drivers or otherwise if it isn't, or if it is as expected.
It doesn't seems logical keeping people RMAing LCDs only because there is not a clear answer. You have been very kind to answer here and to check some problems with your team, this check is the most easy of which you have done. So I pray you to inform us about that situation, if you can. It is sure that NVIDIA has Samsung 2233RZ monitors to check, so this is not the problem, and of course nvidia has 3D Vision sets to test too.
Only a word as, for example "we have tested and didn't found the problem. you should RMA the screen", or "we have tested and found that behaviour, we are looking into that and we will inform", or "that's normal behaviour because of current 120 Hz LCD technologies, in future it should improve", etc. I guess you get the point. A lot of people here don't want to send back a LCD (shipping cost and stay without screen during maybe weeks), only because "it could be" the screen.
For the rest of the community, I think that now that we know how it is the "problem" everybody with 3D Vision kit (samsung or viewsonic too) could check if they see what is shown in the photos of this thread and post back. You know, if everybody sees that, then it seems a problem with LCD technology or nvidia drivers, but not faulty units...Please, check and post back your results.
Now that we have more photo references I would love to see someone posting here and telling "I have checked that and I have not that problem, see that photo".
Personally, as the LCD can do 2D 120 Hz without that effect, I think the problem is linked to the way the stereo mode is activated inside the monitor. You know I refer to the "stereo mode in the Samsung" that Andrew talked about, not the stereo mode of the drivers (which double the image, control de glasses, etc). Some command/order is sent to the LCD in order to apply that stereo mode (which involves the 100% brightness thing, too). Is the way drivers ask to do that to the LCD hardware? or is the circuitry inside the screen which do not perform that in the best way? Maybe is the last thing and it is not fixable with firmware, that would mean to change some hundreds (thousand of screens?). Is it because of that that neither samsung nor nvidia (as a partner) do not explain sincerely the situation? If that is the situation, then I understand Andrew only "suggesting" in an ambigous way to change the monitor. He is hands tied. If that is the case, Andrew, please excuse me, I understand your situation.
If liquor beard receives a LCD without that problem, then I would guess that it was the second problem I just referred and that samsung are only exchanging monitors to people that asks for that. I anticipate liquor_beard experience, if it works, I know who is going to ask for a RMA at light speed ;)
Regards,
Darkbluesky
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Well, I'm still waiting for return authorization from Nvidia, so I grabbed my trusty Viewsonic a90f+ CRT to test if it had the same horizontal lines issue and it looks like it does. Here are the screenshots:
Nvidia test image at 800x600@85Hz. Notice that every other horizontal line of pixels is darker then brighter gamma, just like on the 2233rz:
[img]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/tvkid/85hz.jpg[/img]
Now here's the Nvidia test image at 800x600@75Hz. Something strange happened here. I don't know if it's the GPU's built in scaling or what, but everything was smoothed out. The camera is not out of focus; that's the way it looks on the screen. I tried the test at 60Hz, 72Hz, 75Hz and 85Hz. It only smooths out like this at 75Hz:
[img]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/tvkid/75hz.jpg[/img]
Anyway, that image at 85Hz makes me think this is a driver issue, which would rule out the 2233rz as the culprit.
Well, I'm still waiting for return authorization from Nvidia, so I grabbed my trusty Viewsonic a90f+ CRT to test if it had the same horizontal lines issue and it looks like it does. Here are the screenshots:
Nvidia test image at 800x600@85Hz. Notice that every other horizontal line of pixels is darker then brighter gamma, just like on the 2233rz:
Now here's the Nvidia test image at 800x600@75Hz. Something strange happened here. I don't know if it's the GPU's built in scaling or what, but everything was smoothed out. The camera is not out of focus; that's the way it looks on the screen. I tried the test at 60Hz, 72Hz, 75Hz and 85Hz. It only smooths out like this at 75Hz:
Anyway, that image at 85Hz makes me think this is a driver issue, which would rule out the 2233rz as the culprit.
[quote name='liquor beard' post='563871' date='Jul 10 2009, 04:43 PM']Anyway, that image at 85Hz makes me think this is a driver issue, which would rule out the 2233rz as the culprit.
What are everyones thoughts on this?[/quote]
It frankly surprises me, I'll test in the Sharp XR10X DLP projector, which is recognized as CRT screen, when I will be at home in a few days. I know that when I tested it with 3D Vision I didn't see these lines though. Anyway I'll look closer and will take photos.
About the blurring at 75Hz, did you saw that only changing refresh rate BUT stereo OFF (first turning off only with Ctrl+T and then turning OFF in CPanel)?
[quote name='liquor beard' post='563871' date='Jul 10 2009, 04:43 PM']Anyway, that image at 85Hz makes me think this is a driver issue, which would rule out the 2233rz as the culprit.
What are everyones thoughts on this?
It frankly surprises me, I'll test in the Sharp XR10X DLP projector, which is recognized as CRT screen, when I will be at home in a few days. I know that when I tested it with 3D Vision I didn't see these lines though. Anyway I'll look closer and will take photos.
About the blurring at 75Hz, did you saw that only changing refresh rate BUT stereo OFF (first turning off only with Ctrl+T and then turning OFF in CPanel)?
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Darkbluesky: Thank you so much for taking the time to post pictures of this problem. Your photos are great, and that is EXACTLY the problem I am experiencing with this setup (Samsung 2233RZ).
Your explanation was equally accurate -- thank you for expressing what I've been thinking in my head (and trying to say on these forums) for a couple of months. It is at least comforting to know that I'm not the only one with this problem.
Your theory about "3D mode" inside the monitor is very interesting. I was also noticing that the monitor almost attempts to "be brighter" when in 3D mode -- could this contribute to the problem? (I'm just repeating what you said, essentially.) I don't see why not, because I agree: 120Hz is NOT the problem. This is DEFINITELY a 3D mode problem. Of course, that doesn't mean much, because as we know 3D mode could be a problem for a number of potential reasons:
1. The monitor is just incapable of displaying 3D mode (two alternating images that quickly) properly. [Technology limitation: we just have to deal with it for now.]
2. Some of us early adopters got unlucky and have the faulty monitors, but some customers (newer revisions?) have better units
3. nVidia drivers are introducing the problem, but only in 3D mode
4. etc.
I appreciate your efforts to keep this thread alive. Obviously, there is a segment of nVidia's customer base that is affected by this problem -- and it has gotten to the point where we really do deserve an answer from nVidia... one way or another. They MUST be able to re-create this. Our hardware is very common -- for 3D Vision customers that is.
Darkbluesky: Thank you so much for taking the time to post pictures of this problem. Your photos are great, and that is EXACTLY the problem I am experiencing with this setup (Samsung 2233RZ).
Your explanation was equally accurate -- thank you for expressing what I've been thinking in my head (and trying to say on these forums) for a couple of months. It is at least comforting to know that I'm not the only one with this problem.
Your theory about "3D mode" inside the monitor is very interesting. I was also noticing that the monitor almost attempts to "be brighter" when in 3D mode -- could this contribute to the problem? (I'm just repeating what you said, essentially.) I don't see why not, because I agree: 120Hz is NOT the problem. This is DEFINITELY a 3D mode problem. Of course, that doesn't mean much, because as we know 3D mode could be a problem for a number of potential reasons:
1. The monitor is just incapable of displaying 3D mode (two alternating images that quickly) properly. [Technology limitation: we just have to deal with it for now.]
2. Some of us early adopters got unlucky and have the faulty monitors, but some customers (newer revisions?) have better units
3. nVidia drivers are introducing the problem, but only in 3D mode
4. etc.
I appreciate your efforts to keep this thread alive. Obviously, there is a segment of nVidia's customer base that is affected by this problem -- and it has gotten to the point where we really do deserve an answer from nVidia... one way or another. They MUST be able to re-create this. Our hardware is very common -- for 3D Vision customers that is.
I also got my samsung 2233 today and can also verify that these "scanlines" occurs.
Must be a driver thing though, since at 120hz without S3D enabled they do not occur in any games at all.
A major annoyance, especially if Nvidia won't even acknowledge the problem, other than trying to point at samsung instead. :(
I also got my samsung 2233 today and can also verify that these "scanlines" occurs.
Must be a driver thing though, since at 120hz without S3D enabled they do not occur in any games at all.
A major annoyance, especially if Nvidia won't even acknowledge the problem, other than trying to point at samsung instead. :(
I'm sorry you do not appreciate my assistance in these forums. I always try to help as best as I can and try as hard as I can to give you definite answers.
You have some issues here and I will comment on what I can.
- RMA: if you are having trouble with RMA, PM me your email address and I can look into it with the support team
- Horizontal lines. This issue truly does sound like a monitor issue, that can be addressed with an RMA.
- World of Warcraft UI issues. There is a [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=100291"]thread here[/url] that I had referred the user to two different ideas. There is a KB article we wrote on the [url="http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2409&p_created=1245444877&p_sid=Ak_K7gBj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=2328&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9MTMyJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9MS4xMzImcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXdhcmNyYWZ0&p_li=&p_topview=1"]WoW UI issues that is related to convergence[/url]. Take a read, as I think this can fix your issues.[/quote]
Well, let me start by apologizing to you Andrew. It isn't personal, and I do appreciate your assistance on these forums. Sometimes a frustration at a company or a product can easily be directed at the spokesperson -- so you are on the hook for that role. :-) (Boy, you must go home hating your job, sorry.)
Your solution to my Warcraft "stretched UI" issue worked like a charm! Woot. Ok, I owe you a beer, this was much better than a reboot and hold your breath solution. I'm happily proved wrong in this case because it exactly fixed that issue.
The horizontal line issue: I'd be happy to do an RMA and try a different monitor. I'll send you my e-mail in a PM and work with you to fix it. Honestly, though, many people have complained about this issue with the Samsung 2233RZ, so are you sure it isn't just a problem with the monitor "in general", rather than my specific unit? (A problem with the SKU, not the individual Serial Number?) My plan, at some point, was to give the ViewSonic brand a chance, and see if it suffered the same issue. I can't imagine so many people having problems with this SamSung monitor if we just got unlucky. Maybe most people don't notice? Or we are overly sensitive?
Anyway, thank you for your help. I'm still not 100% happy with these 3D glasses, but I shouldn't have directed my frustration at you personally. I meant, more you as in the spokesperson for the company. :-) Just step aside and let the criticism pass through to the engineering team. :-P
I'm sorry you do not appreciate my assistance in these forums. I always try to help as best as I can and try as hard as I can to give you definite answers.
You have some issues here and I will comment on what I can.
- RMA: if you are having trouble with RMA, PM me your email address and I can look into it with the support team
- Horizontal lines. This issue truly does sound like a monitor issue, that can be addressed with an RMA.
- World of Warcraft UI issues. There is a thread here that I had referred the user to two different ideas. There is a KB article we wrote on the WoW UI issues that is related to convergence. Take a read, as I think this can fix your issues.
Well, let me start by apologizing to you Andrew. It isn't personal, and I do appreciate your assistance on these forums. Sometimes a frustration at a company or a product can easily be directed at the spokesperson -- so you are on the hook for that role. :-) (Boy, you must go home hating your job, sorry.)
Your solution to my Warcraft "stretched UI" issue worked like a charm! Woot. Ok, I owe you a beer, this was much better than a reboot and hold your breath solution. I'm happily proved wrong in this case because it exactly fixed that issue.
The horizontal line issue: I'd be happy to do an RMA and try a different monitor. I'll send you my e-mail in a PM and work with you to fix it. Honestly, though, many people have complained about this issue with the Samsung 2233RZ, so are you sure it isn't just a problem with the monitor "in general", rather than my specific unit? (A problem with the SKU, not the individual Serial Number?) My plan, at some point, was to give the ViewSonic brand a chance, and see if it suffered the same issue. I can't imagine so many people having problems with this SamSung monitor if we just got unlucky. Maybe most people don't notice? Or we are overly sensitive?
Anyway, thank you for your help. I'm still not 100% happy with these 3D glasses, but I shouldn't have directed my frustration at you personally. I meant, more you as in the spokesperson for the company. :-) Just step aside and let the criticism pass through to the engineering team. :-P
[img]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/tvkid/DSC02352.jpg[/img]
Yes, that's exactly what mine looks like too. You can't quite tell in that picture but those horizontal-gamma-lines encompass the whole screen from top to bottom (every odd line is a lighter hue in color). I tried taking a picture of my screen too but the picture came out too blurry to see them. I can't see this as being a monitor issue as when the 3d part of the driver is disabled the lines go away entirely even in 120Hz mode. It seems like there's a bug in the 3d driver code that makes every odd line have a lighter gamma then every even line, thereby looking like you have horizontal lines all over your screen. I wish Nvidia would at least test some Samsung 2233RZ monitors and confirm if they do or do not also observe this behavior.
Yes, that's exactly what mine looks like too. You can't quite tell in that picture but those horizontal-gamma-lines encompass the whole screen from top to bottom (every odd line is a lighter hue in color). I tried taking a picture of my screen too but the picture came out too blurry to see them. I can't see this as being a monitor issue as when the 3d part of the driver is disabled the lines go away entirely even in 120Hz mode. It seems like there's a bug in the 3d driver code that makes every odd line have a lighter gamma then every even line, thereby looking like you have horizontal lines all over your screen. I wish Nvidia would at least test some Samsung 2233RZ monitors and confirm if they do or do not also observe this behavior.
Well either way I'm going to be a guinea pig and RMA mine per Andrew's advice. I'm currently waiting for return authorization from Nvidia. Check out Trek's post on the 20th:
[i]"I do believe that you see implementation of monitor dual rendering engine and that this is not good. Because I do not see this on my monitor. I got top quality monitor [b][color="#FF0000"](I RMAed one)[/color][/b] with almost none backlight bleeding. I think that if you see interlacing on desktop or lcd test images that you should RMA such a monitor."[/i]
Well either way I'm going to be a guinea pig and RMA mine per Andrew's advice. I'm currently waiting for return authorization from Nvidia. Check out Trek's post on the 20th:
"I do believe that you see implementation of monitor dual rendering engine and that this is not good. Because I do not see this on my monitor. I got top quality monitor (I RMAed one) with almost none backlight bleeding. I think that if you see interlacing on desktop or lcd test images that you should RMA such a monitor."
This, of course, goes for anyone else who may also have information.
This, of course, goes for anyone else who may also have information.
This, of course, goes for anyone else who may also have information.[/quote]
You betcha. I'll be posting the results in this thread.
This, of course, goes for anyone else who may also have information.
You betcha. I'll be posting the results in this thread.
Finally I have had the time to do some testing and I wanted to put here some photos in order to make it clear, doubtless and free of subjective interpretation about the look of the problem/screen, at least, as much as possible.
So I have tested Left4Dead (L4D), Cooliris and Call of Duty World at War (CODWW), with 168.18 and Windows 7 RC 7100. Note though that the problem was there even with the 185.85...
I have made two shots for each application/game:
1- the [b]first [/b]one is with [b]stereo OFF in Nvidia control panel[/b],
2- the [b]second [/b]is with [b]stereo ON in Nvidia control panel but desactivated via emitter or Ctrl+T.[/b]
First I post the full photos reduced to a 33%, and then a crop at 100% without modification. I shot the photos with a SLR Canon 50D and 17-55IS (very sharp lens) and in tripod. Even with that there is a slight blur in some photo, but nothing serious (the tripod was not good and I had not much time to repeat shots). Please click in the top bar in each photo to see the difference better.
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Left 4 Dead (partial menu screen):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139099.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139100.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139106.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139108.jpg[/img]
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Cooliris (up right corner):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139101.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139102.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139109.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139110.jpg[/img]
(Continue in the next post)
Finally I have had the time to do some testing and I wanted to put here some photos in order to make it clear, doubtless and free of subjective interpretation about the look of the problem/screen, at least, as much as possible.
So I have tested Left4Dead (L4D), Cooliris and Call of Duty World at War (CODWW), with 168.18 and Windows 7 RC 7100. Note though that the problem was there even with the 185.85...
I have made two shots for each application/game:
1- the first one is with stereo OFF in Nvidia control panel,
2- the second is with stereo ON in Nvidia control panel but desactivated via emitter or Ctrl+T.
First I post the full photos reduced to a 33%, and then a crop at 100% without modification. I shot the photos with a SLR Canon 50D and 17-55IS (very sharp lens) and in tripod. Even with that there is a slight blur in some photo, but nothing serious (the tripod was not good and I had not much time to repeat shots). Please click in the top bar in each photo to see the difference better.
Left 4 Dead (partial menu screen):
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
Cooliris (up right corner):
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
(Continue in the next post)
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Call of Duty World at War (menu up right corner):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139103.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139104.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139111.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139112.jpg[/img]
[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]Call of Duty World at War (Stalingrad sniper mision, up right corner):[/b][/size][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][size=3]Please note that in one photo the window glass was broken and in the other not, thus the clearer and more contrasted image versus the other)[/size][/color]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139105.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]FULL SHOT (33%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139107.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo OFF in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139113.jpg[/img]
[color="#0000FF"][size=3][b]CROP (100%):[/b] stereo ON in control panel:[/size][/color]
[img]http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6285n7XME/1139114.jpg[/img]
Well, I have to say that, in full screen it is even a bit worse, but on the other hand with the glasses on, it gets a bit less evident, except on text and especially in cooliris, which for me is a turn off.
What I would like now is to ask Andrew to have a confirmation word from him (or Nvidia), telling that it is the drivers or otherwise if it isn't, or if it is as expected.
It doesn't seems logical keeping people RMAing LCDs only because there is not a clear answer. You have been very kind to answer here and to check some problems with your team, this check is the most easy of which you have done. So I pray you to inform us about that situation, if you can. It is sure that NVIDIA has Samsung 2233RZ monitors to check, so this is not the problem, and of course nvidia has 3D Vision sets to test too.
Only a word as, for example "we have tested and didn't found the problem. you should RMA the screen", or "we have tested and found that behaviour, we are looking into that and we will inform", or "that's normal behaviour because of current 120 Hz LCD technologies, in future it should improve", etc. I guess you get the point. A lot of people here don't want to send back a LCD (shipping cost and stay without screen during maybe weeks), only because "it could be" the screen.
For the rest of the community, I think that now that we know how it is the "problem" everybody with 3D Vision kit (samsung or viewsonic too) could check if they see what is shown in the photos of this thread and post back. You know, if everybody sees that, then it seems a problem with LCD technology or nvidia drivers, but not faulty units...Please, check and post back your results.
Now that we have more photo references I would love to see someone posting here and telling "I have checked that and I have not that problem, see that photo".
Personally, as the LCD can do 2D 120 Hz without that effect, I think the problem is linked to the way the stereo mode is activated [b]inside[/b] the monitor. You know I refer to the "stereo mode in the Samsung" that Andrew talked about, not the stereo mode of the drivers (which double the image, control de glasses, etc). Some command/order is sent to the LCD in order to apply that stereo mode (which involves the 100% brightness thing, too). Is the way drivers ask to do that to the LCD hardware? or is the circuitry inside the screen which do not perform that in the best way? Maybe is the last thing and it is not fixable with firmware, that would mean to change some hundreds (thousand of screens?). Is it because of that that neither samsung nor nvidia (as a partner) do not explain sincerely the situation? If that is the situation, then I understand Andrew only "suggesting" in an ambigous way to change the monitor. He is hands tied. If that is the case, Andrew, please excuse me, I understand your situation.
If liquor beard receives a LCD without that problem, then I would guess that it was the second problem I just referred and that samsung are only exchanging monitors to people that asks for that. I anticipate liquor_beard experience, if it works, I know who is going to ask for a RMA at light speed ;)
Regards,
Darkbluesky
Call of Duty World at War (menu up right corner):
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
Call of Duty World at War (Stalingrad sniper mision, up right corner):
Please note that in one photo the window glass was broken and in the other not, thus the clearer and more contrasted image versus the other)
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo OFF in control panel:
FULL SHOT (33%): stereo ON in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo OFF in control panel:
CROP (100%): stereo ON in control panel:
Well, I have to say that, in full screen it is even a bit worse, but on the other hand with the glasses on, it gets a bit less evident, except on text and especially in cooliris, which for me is a turn off.
What I would like now is to ask Andrew to have a confirmation word from him (or Nvidia), telling that it is the drivers or otherwise if it isn't, or if it is as expected.
It doesn't seems logical keeping people RMAing LCDs only because there is not a clear answer. You have been very kind to answer here and to check some problems with your team, this check is the most easy of which you have done. So I pray you to inform us about that situation, if you can. It is sure that NVIDIA has Samsung 2233RZ monitors to check, so this is not the problem, and of course nvidia has 3D Vision sets to test too.
Only a word as, for example "we have tested and didn't found the problem. you should RMA the screen", or "we have tested and found that behaviour, we are looking into that and we will inform", or "that's normal behaviour because of current 120 Hz LCD technologies, in future it should improve", etc. I guess you get the point. A lot of people here don't want to send back a LCD (shipping cost and stay without screen during maybe weeks), only because "it could be" the screen.
For the rest of the community, I think that now that we know how it is the "problem" everybody with 3D Vision kit (samsung or viewsonic too) could check if they see what is shown in the photos of this thread and post back. You know, if everybody sees that, then it seems a problem with LCD technology or nvidia drivers, but not faulty units...Please, check and post back your results.
Now that we have more photo references I would love to see someone posting here and telling "I have checked that and I have not that problem, see that photo".
Personally, as the LCD can do 2D 120 Hz without that effect, I think the problem is linked to the way the stereo mode is activated inside the monitor. You know I refer to the "stereo mode in the Samsung" that Andrew talked about, not the stereo mode of the drivers (which double the image, control de glasses, etc). Some command/order is sent to the LCD in order to apply that stereo mode (which involves the 100% brightness thing, too). Is the way drivers ask to do that to the LCD hardware? or is the circuitry inside the screen which do not perform that in the best way? Maybe is the last thing and it is not fixable with firmware, that would mean to change some hundreds (thousand of screens?). Is it because of that that neither samsung nor nvidia (as a partner) do not explain sincerely the situation? If that is the situation, then I understand Andrew only "suggesting" in an ambigous way to change the monitor. He is hands tied. If that is the case, Andrew, please excuse me, I understand your situation.
If liquor beard receives a LCD without that problem, then I would guess that it was the second problem I just referred and that samsung are only exchanging monitors to people that asks for that. I anticipate liquor_beard experience, if it works, I know who is going to ask for a RMA at light speed ;)
Regards,
Darkbluesky
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Nvidia test image at 800x600@85Hz. Notice that every other horizontal line of pixels is darker then brighter gamma, just like on the 2233rz:
[img]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/tvkid/85hz.jpg[/img]
Now here's the Nvidia test image at 800x600@75Hz. Something strange happened here. I don't know if it's the GPU's built in scaling or what, but everything was smoothed out. The camera is not out of focus; that's the way it looks on the screen. I tried the test at 60Hz, 72Hz, 75Hz and 85Hz. It only smooths out like this at 75Hz:
[img]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/tvkid/75hz.jpg[/img]
Anyway, that image at 85Hz makes me think this is a driver issue, which would rule out the 2233rz as the culprit.
What are everyones thoughts on this?
Nvidia test image at 800x600@85Hz. Notice that every other horizontal line of pixels is darker then brighter gamma, just like on the 2233rz:
Now here's the Nvidia test image at 800x600@75Hz. Something strange happened here. I don't know if it's the GPU's built in scaling or what, but everything was smoothed out. The camera is not out of focus; that's the way it looks on the screen. I tried the test at 60Hz, 72Hz, 75Hz and 85Hz. It only smooths out like this at 75Hz:
Anyway, that image at 85Hz makes me think this is a driver issue, which would rule out the 2233rz as the culprit.
What are everyones thoughts on this?
What are everyones thoughts on this?[/quote]
It frankly surprises me, I'll test in the Sharp XR10X DLP projector, which is recognized as CRT screen, when I will be at home in a few days. I know that when I tested it with 3D Vision I didn't see these lines though. Anyway I'll look closer and will take photos.
About the blurring at 75Hz, did you saw that only changing refresh rate BUT stereo OFF (first turning off only with Ctrl+T and then turning OFF in CPanel)?
What are everyones thoughts on this?
It frankly surprises me, I'll test in the Sharp XR10X DLP projector, which is recognized as CRT screen, when I will be at home in a few days. I know that when I tested it with 3D Vision I didn't see these lines though. Anyway I'll look closer and will take photos.
About the blurring at 75Hz, did you saw that only changing refresh rate BUT stereo OFF (first turning off only with Ctrl+T and then turning OFF in CPanel)?
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Your explanation was equally accurate -- thank you for expressing what I've been thinking in my head (and trying to say on these forums) for a couple of months. It is at least comforting to know that I'm not the only one with this problem.
Your theory about "3D mode" inside the monitor is very interesting. I was also noticing that the monitor almost attempts to "be brighter" when in 3D mode -- could this contribute to the problem? (I'm just repeating what you said, essentially.) I don't see why not, because I agree: 120Hz is NOT the problem. This is DEFINITELY a 3D mode problem. Of course, that doesn't mean much, because as we know 3D mode could be a problem for a number of potential reasons:
1. The monitor is just incapable of displaying 3D mode (two alternating images that quickly) properly. [Technology limitation: we just have to deal with it for now.]
2. Some of us early adopters got unlucky and have the faulty monitors, but some customers (newer revisions?) have better units
3. nVidia drivers are introducing the problem, but only in 3D mode
4. etc.
I appreciate your efforts to keep this thread alive. Obviously, there is a segment of nVidia's customer base that is affected by this problem -- and it has gotten to the point where we really do deserve an answer from nVidia... one way or another. They MUST be able to re-create this. Our hardware is very common -- for 3D Vision customers that is.
Your explanation was equally accurate -- thank you for expressing what I've been thinking in my head (and trying to say on these forums) for a couple of months. It is at least comforting to know that I'm not the only one with this problem.
Your theory about "3D mode" inside the monitor is very interesting. I was also noticing that the monitor almost attempts to "be brighter" when in 3D mode -- could this contribute to the problem? (I'm just repeating what you said, essentially.) I don't see why not, because I agree: 120Hz is NOT the problem. This is DEFINITELY a 3D mode problem. Of course, that doesn't mean much, because as we know 3D mode could be a problem for a number of potential reasons:
1. The monitor is just incapable of displaying 3D mode (two alternating images that quickly) properly. [Technology limitation: we just have to deal with it for now.]
2. Some of us early adopters got unlucky and have the faulty monitors, but some customers (newer revisions?) have better units
3. nVidia drivers are introducing the problem, but only in 3D mode
4. etc.
I appreciate your efforts to keep this thread alive. Obviously, there is a segment of nVidia's customer base that is affected by this problem -- and it has gotten to the point where we really do deserve an answer from nVidia... one way or another. They MUST be able to re-create this. Our hardware is very common -- for 3D Vision customers that is.
Also I'm still down to do an RMA but I'm not sure who to talk to at Nvidia (details are in a PM I sent you).
Also I'm still down to do an RMA but I'm not sure who to talk to at Nvidia (details are in a PM I sent you).