My honest opinion after a weekend of testing the 3D vision kit
2 / 3
Please don't think that I am out to 'trash' the system. It is by far the most accomplished home 3D system and Nvidia have done an amazing job incorporating it into drivers that can support such a broad number of titles, old and new. Many people are getting on fine with it, so it is clearly down to personal preference and experience.
I'm only presenting my personal opinion as I feel I would have benefited from reading such an account before I went out and bought the kit. I didn't lie or manufacture any of my comments in my original post. I subjectively laid out exactly how the experience was for me (not everyone, just me). And i don't even think it was an overly negative review...
My only advice would be to try it out before you buy if possible. As it may not be quite as you expected.
Please don't think that I am out to 'trash' the system. It is by far the most accomplished home 3D system and Nvidia have done an amazing job incorporating it into drivers that can support such a broad number of titles, old and new. Many people are getting on fine with it, so it is clearly down to personal preference and experience.
I'm only presenting my personal opinion as I feel I would have benefited from reading such an account before I went out and bought the kit. I didn't lie or manufacture any of my comments in my original post. I subjectively laid out exactly how the experience was for me (not everyone, just me). And i don't even think it was an overly negative review...
My only advice would be to try it out before you buy if possible. As it may not be quite as you expected.
[quote name='Likay' post='1073453' date='Jun 14 2010, 03:48 PM']I think this line is very important for a good experience. What i snapped here it seems like convergence is a locked feature until you enable it in the nvidiapanel (right/wrong?). Without a proper adjustment of convergence the experience will only be good in some rare cases. Best games for 3d is definitely 3'rd person adventuregames like tombraiders, assassins creeds, avatar etc etc. First person shooters most of the times gains a lot from 3d as well (left4dead and halflifeseries is a must try in 3d). Some racing games are incredible in 3d.
Don't worry about eyes getting stuck in crosseyed formation or something. I've been 3d-gaming for the last 8-9 years and still have a perfect vision! I wear prescriptionglasses though but done it before 3d as well.
Just want to shoot a few straws more before you (Coldscooter, not the quoted) trashes it entirely. ;)
Cheers![/quote]
I have to agree that the fact you have to dig to adjust convergence settings is a design flaw of the kit and that you are doing yourself a disservice by not adjusting for every game. I personally would have much rather seen a separate "gaming pad" usb style plugin vs the current IR emitter that would allow you direct and easy access to all of the functions of 3DVision, but on a dedicated mini-keyboard. Simply plug it in, turn it on, and forget about it... Easily configure games to your liking without having to dig into the Nvidia control panel, enable advanced controls, map to your existing keyboard, and remember what you mapped them to...
[quote name='Likay' post='1073453' date='Jun 14 2010, 03:48 PM']I think this line is very important for a good experience. What i snapped here it seems like convergence is a locked feature until you enable it in the nvidiapanel (right/wrong?). Without a proper adjustment of convergence the experience will only be good in some rare cases. Best games for 3d is definitely 3'rd person adventuregames like tombraiders, assassins creeds, avatar etc etc. First person shooters most of the times gains a lot from 3d as well (left4dead and halflifeseries is a must try in 3d). Some racing games are incredible in 3d.
Don't worry about eyes getting stuck in crosseyed formation or something. I've been 3d-gaming for the last 8-9 years and still have a perfect vision! I wear prescriptionglasses though but done it before 3d as well.
Just want to shoot a few straws more before you (Coldscooter, not the quoted) trashes it entirely. ;)
Cheers!
I have to agree that the fact you have to dig to adjust convergence settings is a design flaw of the kit and that you are doing yourself a disservice by not adjusting for every game. I personally would have much rather seen a separate "gaming pad" usb style plugin vs the current IR emitter that would allow you direct and easy access to all of the functions of 3DVision, but on a dedicated mini-keyboard. Simply plug it in, turn it on, and forget about it... Easily configure games to your liking without having to dig into the Nvidia control panel, enable advanced controls, map to your existing keyboard, and remember what you mapped them to...
Excuse me if it sounded like i'm bashing (i'm certainly not :) ). I'm trying to help getting the most out of the kit even if i don't own it myself. I still have the question if you tried to adjust the convergence. Basically it's the main key to a successful nonmediocre experience and also the reason why some people can use 100% separation with satisfaction. I understand why nvidia would like to have their system plug and play but unfortunately it won't work out too well because of the nature of stereoscopy.
Excuse me if it sounded like i'm bashing (i'm certainly not :) ). I'm trying to help getting the most out of the kit even if i don't own it myself. I still have the question if you tried to adjust the convergence. Basically it's the main key to a successful nonmediocre experience and also the reason why some people can use 100% separation with satisfaction. I understand why nvidia would like to have their system plug and play but unfortunately it won't work out too well because of the nature of stereoscopy.
+1 to the other comments about adjusting Convergence! Its really the key to a good 3D Vision experience, as with many games, adjusting Depth does not compensate for Convergence (3D Vision Ready games do seem to, that's it). Otherwise adjusting Depth will usually result in way too much separation that will give even most seasoned 3D Vision veterans a headache.
To enable Convergence, you need to go into the NVCP and the shortcut keys portion and check off the advanced controls option. Then while in-game use Ctrl-F5 and Ctrl-F6 to adjust separation, for starters, I would go no more than 50% Depth, then adjust objects in the near field so that they appear as a single image. Then anything between that object and Screen Depth will appear as pop-out without giving too much separation and eye strain. With low depth you do get the effect of basically flat 2D billboards/mock-ups on a stage like you would see in a play, but once you get Depth cranked up and Convergence set properly, the effect really feels like a 3D Hologram with limitless depth set within your monitor.
As for the Brightness issues, there definitely is brightness loss of ~50%, its not quite that much as the shutter glasses don't actually block all light unfortunately (this results in some cross-talk/ghosting) and is room for improvement imo. It doesn't bother me too much however as my Alienware is far too bright for my tastes during normal usage, so I set Brightness and Contrast lower to begin with, maybe 50-60%. When 3D Vision comes on, the stereo driver takes control of Brightness/Contrast via DDCI and cranks up both to max, so while the shutter glasses decrease brightness, the monitor increases simultaneously, resulting in only maybe 20-25% drop in overall Brightness. I have read its very much a monitor-specific issue however and that the AW is typically regarded the best of the desktop 120Hz LCDs in terms of brightness.
I'd give it a bit more time before you make a final verdict on it, I wasn't completely sold at first for similar reasons you stated above, mainly the Depth/Convergence/separation until I started tweaking Convergence. I still don't use more than 50% Depth but I simply won't play games without 3D anymore. I would add my bigger concern/gripe about 3D Vision is low FPS and the associated drop in performance as a result. The most frustrating part is that performance, scaling and compatibility is often inconsistent in SLI so that there's really nothing that can be done about the drop in performance. Definitely driver issues however, so hopefully this improves.
+1 to the other comments about adjusting Convergence! Its really the key to a good 3D Vision experience, as with many games, adjusting Depth does not compensate for Convergence (3D Vision Ready games do seem to, that's it). Otherwise adjusting Depth will usually result in way too much separation that will give even most seasoned 3D Vision veterans a headache.
To enable Convergence, you need to go into the NVCP and the shortcut keys portion and check off the advanced controls option. Then while in-game use Ctrl-F5 and Ctrl-F6 to adjust separation, for starters, I would go no more than 50% Depth, then adjust objects in the near field so that they appear as a single image. Then anything between that object and Screen Depth will appear as pop-out without giving too much separation and eye strain. With low depth you do get the effect of basically flat 2D billboards/mock-ups on a stage like you would see in a play, but once you get Depth cranked up and Convergence set properly, the effect really feels like a 3D Hologram with limitless depth set within your monitor.
As for the Brightness issues, there definitely is brightness loss of ~50%, its not quite that much as the shutter glasses don't actually block all light unfortunately (this results in some cross-talk/ghosting) and is room for improvement imo. It doesn't bother me too much however as my Alienware is far too bright for my tastes during normal usage, so I set Brightness and Contrast lower to begin with, maybe 50-60%. When 3D Vision comes on, the stereo driver takes control of Brightness/Contrast via DDCI and cranks up both to max, so while the shutter glasses decrease brightness, the monitor increases simultaneously, resulting in only maybe 20-25% drop in overall Brightness. I have read its very much a monitor-specific issue however and that the AW is typically regarded the best of the desktop 120Hz LCDs in terms of brightness.
I'd give it a bit more time before you make a final verdict on it, I wasn't completely sold at first for similar reasons you stated above, mainly the Depth/Convergence/separation until I started tweaking Convergence. I still don't use more than 50% Depth but I simply won't play games without 3D anymore. I would add my bigger concern/gripe about 3D Vision is low FPS and the associated drop in performance as a result. The most frustrating part is that performance, scaling and compatibility is often inconsistent in SLI so that there's really nothing that can be done about the drop in performance. Definitely driver issues however, so hopefully this improves.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073380' date='Jun 14 2010, 08:04 PM']If you are actually adapting to the 100% depth, you are effectively training your eyes to see while cross-eyed (which is very possible and the reason why you have slowly adapted). While you may achieve focus while paying your games, I can't imagine what long term damage that would do to your retinas and visual senses. A few years of doing that and you might be walking around cross-eyed, bumping into things.[/quote]
[quote name='NicWilson89' post='1073388' date='Jun 14 2010, 08:14 PM']Actually think of it more like weightlifting for your eye muscles (technical term, lol).
The strain is due to the muscles not being used to that sort of movement for extended periods, your eyes won't get stuck like that, that's just silly.[/quote]
Actually, stereoscopy is different from the real worlsd because the picture on screen is displayed on a flat surface while in the real worls everything is in volume.
It is different and it produces a different feeling in your eyes that you aren't used to.
The human brain has no problem making the eyes converge and focus independantly, it's just that the brain creates reflexes to make it happen quickly, and breaking a reflex to establish an other one is disturming for a few moments.
If you think about it : stereoscopy is actually easier than real world (no need to focus = less work), you have also probably noticed that stereoscopy seems more 3D than the real world : you see the shapes and feel the volume quicker because the entire picture is in focus : you see more than you'd actually see in the real world. You could even say that stereoscopy is like some kind of super-vision and going back to the real world would be getting a handicap (everythig is blurry except the depth at which you focus).
I personally do experience the thing after long sessions of playing stereo, there are often a few minutes when I have a lot of trouble watching my screen in 2D and constantly loose focus when trying to read a flat text of play a game in 2D. Taking a small break and looking around in the room and purposely looking in succession at very close than far objects (essentially crossing and uncrossing eyes) helps make everything go back to normal much quicker (within a minute or so)
There have been numerous press articles speaking about people taking a few minutes to resume normal real world viewing after watching a long 3D movie but everybody got back to normal eventually.
Stereoscopy has been invented over a century ago and been heavily used on computer screens by professionals for over a decade, there hasn't been a single person who got definitely stuck crosseyed or with whatever eye illness, simply because the brain has a phnomenal capacity of adaptation at any age. The simple fact of switching back and forth between stereoscopy and real world trains your brain to work under both conditions and to be able to switch quicker.
I think there will never be particular issues with stereo or any permanent damage caused by watching stereo content, but hardware manufacturer unfortunately will never have the guts to publicly claim there is no harm watching 3D content, because hardware manufacturers have already been burnt by various lawsuits because of misusage of their products or for revealing a pre-existing condition (like 2DTVs and video games causing seizures).
Nobody wants a trial of 3DTVs because an already cross-eyed kid got cross-eyed in front of a 3DTV, mainly because of the bad press it would cause before the doctors figure out the TV did not cause the kid going cross-eyed.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073380' date='Jun 14 2010, 08:04 PM']If you are actually adapting to the 100% depth, you are effectively training your eyes to see while cross-eyed (which is very possible and the reason why you have slowly adapted). While you may achieve focus while paying your games, I can't imagine what long term damage that would do to your retinas and visual senses. A few years of doing that and you might be walking around cross-eyed, bumping into things.
[quote name='NicWilson89' post='1073388' date='Jun 14 2010, 08:14 PM']Actually think of it more like weightlifting for your eye muscles (technical term, lol).
The strain is due to the muscles not being used to that sort of movement for extended periods, your eyes won't get stuck like that, that's just silly.
Actually, stereoscopy is different from the real worlsd because the picture on screen is displayed on a flat surface while in the real worls everything is in volume.
It is different and it produces a different feeling in your eyes that you aren't used to.
The human brain has no problem making the eyes converge and focus independantly, it's just that the brain creates reflexes to make it happen quickly, and breaking a reflex to establish an other one is disturming for a few moments.
If you think about it : stereoscopy is actually easier than real world (no need to focus = less work), you have also probably noticed that stereoscopy seems more 3D than the real world : you see the shapes and feel the volume quicker because the entire picture is in focus : you see more than you'd actually see in the real world. You could even say that stereoscopy is like some kind of super-vision and going back to the real world would be getting a handicap (everythig is blurry except the depth at which you focus).
I personally do experience the thing after long sessions of playing stereo, there are often a few minutes when I have a lot of trouble watching my screen in 2D and constantly loose focus when trying to read a flat text of play a game in 2D. Taking a small break and looking around in the room and purposely looking in succession at very close than far objects (essentially crossing and uncrossing eyes) helps make everything go back to normal much quicker (within a minute or so)
There have been numerous press articles speaking about people taking a few minutes to resume normal real world viewing after watching a long 3D movie but everybody got back to normal eventually.
Stereoscopy has been invented over a century ago and been heavily used on computer screens by professionals for over a decade, there hasn't been a single person who got definitely stuck crosseyed or with whatever eye illness, simply because the brain has a phnomenal capacity of adaptation at any age. The simple fact of switching back and forth between stereoscopy and real world trains your brain to work under both conditions and to be able to switch quicker.
I think there will never be particular issues with stereo or any permanent damage caused by watching stereo content, but hardware manufacturer unfortunately will never have the guts to publicly claim there is no harm watching 3D content, because hardware manufacturers have already been burnt by various lawsuits because of misusage of their products or for revealing a pre-existing condition (like 2DTVs and video games causing seizures).
Nobody wants a trial of 3DTVs because an already cross-eyed kid got cross-eyed in front of a 3DTV, mainly because of the bad press it would cause before the doctors figure out the TV did not cause the kid going cross-eyed.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
To the OP: What is your impression with the Avatar movie and how does it compare to your 3D Vision experience? Your answer will give us a sense of the visual discrepancy you might have in order to understand better your issue.
To the OP: What is your impression with the Avatar movie and how does it compare to your 3D Vision experience? Your answer will give us a sense of the visual discrepancy you might have in order to understand better your issue.
Also to the OP: What display were you using to test 3d Vision on ? I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere.
If you get the chance find someone who knows what they're doing, as in knows how to set up the 3d
correctly, has a powerful computer and a 3d DLP projector. Your opinion may change.
If you've already seen it on a projector and still aren't impressed, well to each their own.
To coldscooter . I have to agree with others here that you have not selected advanced control options in the nvidia menu. CONVERGENCE + or - is what makes the 3d pop, not depth . Myself i have the depth down to about 25-30% and then adjust convergence +- to what looks best for that particular game and then F7 it to save .And to top it it off until you have experinced 3D with a HD DLP projector and a 120" screen you have missed the boat.
To coldscooter . I have to agree with others here that you have not selected advanced control options in the nvidia menu. CONVERGENCE + or - is what makes the 3d pop, not depth . Myself i have the depth down to about 25-30% and then adjust convergence +- to what looks best for that particular game and then F7 it to save .And to top it it off until you have experinced 3D with a HD DLP projector and a 120" screen you have missed the boat.
[quote name='dreamingawake' post='1073618' date='Jun 15 2010, 05:58 AM']Also to the OP: What display were you using to test 3d Vision on ? I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere.[/quote]
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073299' date='Jun 14 2010, 05:33 PM']I was using the Samsung 120hz monitor and even it's high level of brightness couldn't compensate for the massive reduction while wearing the glasses.[/quote]
[quote name='dreamingawake' post='1073618' date='Jun 15 2010, 05:58 AM']Also to the OP: What display were you using to test 3d Vision on ? I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073299' date='Jun 14 2010, 05:33 PM']I was using the Samsung 120hz monitor and even it's high level of brightness couldn't compensate for the massive reduction while wearing the glasses.
Projectors are the best, 0 ghosting because of display, and you can make a screen that compensates for the lossy transmittance of the glasses entirely ( and more) .
Projectors are the best, 0 ghosting because of display, and you can make a screen that compensates for the lossy transmittance of the glasses entirely ( and more) .
[quote name='distant' post='1073595' date='Jun 15 2010, 03:30 AM']To the OP: What is your impression with the Avatar movie and how does it compare to your 3D Vision experience? Your answer will give us a sense of the visual discrepancy you might have in order to understand better your issue.[/quote]
I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
[quote name='distant' post='1073595' date='Jun 15 2010, 03:30 AM']To the OP: What is your impression with the Avatar movie and how does it compare to your 3D Vision experience? Your answer will give us a sense of the visual discrepancy you might have in order to understand better your issue.
I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073774' date='Jun 15 2010, 02:30 PM']I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.[/quote]
LOW DEPTH to mimic real world i use 3-5% max. way tomany people have depth set to high!
Most games feel planar 3d* like older 3d films. Civ4 is a fine example.
*Like your looking at paper cutouts in 3d space. Some games go far beyond this now though. But alot of people have seen that as there only experience of n3d and think that's all N3D is....
Some new games feel like Avatar in RealD 3D, Dolby 3D and IMAX 3D formats, (some people prefer either) I found BF:Bad Company 2 mind blowing with out of screen effects and amazing depth perception (looking down iron sights felt like real life!) in n3d and like my fav moments from avatar if not better!
More games should be like BC2 soon.
You also find the more you use 3d the more accustom to it you become and the longer you can wear the specs.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073774' date='Jun 15 2010, 02:30 PM']I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
LOW DEPTH to mimic real world i use 3-5% max. way tomany people have depth set to high!
Most games feel planar 3d* like older 3d films. Civ4 is a fine example.
*Like your looking at paper cutouts in 3d space. Some games go far beyond this now though. But alot of people have seen that as there only experience of n3d and think that's all N3D is....
Some new games feel like Avatar in RealD 3D, Dolby 3D and IMAX 3D formats, (some people prefer either) I found BF:Bad Company 2 mind blowing with out of screen effects and amazing depth perception (looking down iron sights felt like real life!) in n3d and like my fav moments from avatar if not better!
More games should be like BC2 soon.
You also find the more you use 3d the more accustom to it you become and the longer you can wear the specs.
people who use N3d alot seem to see this wiggle pic as 3d far faster than people who don't.
2D: MSi 6970 2GB-QX9650-160GB SSD-TJ109. DISPLAYS:2D 120" 21:9 100HZ DLP 0.1MS, 3D 50" 400HZ Passive 0.5 MS 3D LED - 24" 120HZ 2MS Active N3D LCD, all 1080p
Uhuh. There it lies the problem.
Avatar in the theater is good but not as good as gaming with your PC in S3D precisely because you can adjust depth and convergence, as well as brightness/colors (depends on setups, DLP TV can be adjusted independently). It is safe to say that you need to adjust convergence in your games in order to have the pop factor and separation to have the depth, and you're all set. I'm glad that you posted. Welcome to pleasure land.
A tip: You should use the Nvidia logo test in "sterescopic" settings to adjust both depth and pop (separation and convergence) until satisfied then save it which becomes your default setting. While in games, you can further adjust and save for individual games. Also you should turn on the convergence setting keys, because it's by default turned OFF. I know, it's pretty dumbed down for us by Nvidia kindness.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073774' date='Jun 15 2010, 06:30 AM']I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.[/quote]
Avatar in the theater is good but not as good as gaming with your PC in S3D precisely because you can adjust depth and convergence, as well as brightness/colors (depends on setups, DLP TV can be adjusted independently). It is safe to say that you need to adjust convergence in your games in order to have the pop factor and separation to have the depth, and you're all set. I'm glad that you posted. Welcome to pleasure land.
A tip: You should use the Nvidia logo test in "sterescopic" settings to adjust both depth and pop (separation and convergence) until satisfied then save it which becomes your default setting. While in games, you can further adjust and save for individual games. Also you should turn on the convergence setting keys, because it's by default turned OFF. I know, it's pretty dumbed down for us by Nvidia kindness.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073774' date='Jun 15 2010, 06:30 AM']I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
I [b]need[/b] 100% on my 22" monitor.
I find 3D in the cinema disappointing now I play games in S3D.
In the cinemas they limit the divergence so you can view it at any distance from the screen without going cross-eyed. Unfortunately you dont get the sense of infinite depth. If a game, movie had its sky box seporated to the same space as the gap between your eyes then you would percieve the distance as infinite. For example World in Conflict seems to have the depth right for my 22" monitor at the space I have it in front of me. If you ignore the horrid 2D unit icons the vistas look so much more lifelike and immersive at 100%.
I too was scared of upping depth because upping depth whilst looking at the screen made my eyes feel funny. However all games look so much better if you can get the infinite depth point correctly set.
I find 3D in the cinema disappointing now I play games in S3D.
In the cinemas they limit the divergence so you can view it at any distance from the screen without going cross-eyed. Unfortunately you dont get the sense of infinite depth. If a game, movie had its sky box seporated to the same space as the gap between your eyes then you would percieve the distance as infinite. For example World in Conflict seems to have the depth right for my 22" monitor at the space I have it in front of me. If you ignore the horrid 2D unit icons the vistas look so much more lifelike and immersive at 100%.
I too was scared of upping depth because upping depth whilst looking at the screen made my eyes feel funny. However all games look so much better if you can get the infinite depth point correctly set.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
I'm only presenting my personal opinion as I feel I would have benefited from reading such an account before I went out and bought the kit. I didn't lie or manufacture any of my comments in my original post. I subjectively laid out exactly how the experience was for me (not everyone, just me). And i don't even think it was an overly negative review...
My only advice would be to try it out before you buy if possible. As it may not be quite as you expected.
I'm only presenting my personal opinion as I feel I would have benefited from reading such an account before I went out and bought the kit. I didn't lie or manufacture any of my comments in my original post. I subjectively laid out exactly how the experience was for me (not everyone, just me). And i don't even think it was an overly negative review...
My only advice would be to try it out before you buy if possible. As it may not be quite as you expected.
Don't worry about eyes getting stuck in crosseyed formation or something. I've been 3d-gaming for the last 8-9 years and still have a perfect vision! I wear prescriptionglasses though but done it before 3d as well.
Just want to shoot a few straws more before you (Coldscooter, not the quoted) trashes it entirely. ;)
Cheers![/quote]
I have to agree that the fact you have to dig to adjust convergence settings is a design flaw of the kit and that you are doing yourself a disservice by not adjusting for every game. I personally would have much rather seen a separate "gaming pad" usb style plugin vs the current IR emitter that would allow you direct and easy access to all of the functions of 3DVision, but on a dedicated mini-keyboard. Simply plug it in, turn it on, and forget about it... Easily configure games to your liking without having to dig into the Nvidia control panel, enable advanced controls, map to your existing keyboard, and remember what you mapped them to...
Play with convergence. You will be happy you did!
Don't worry about eyes getting stuck in crosseyed formation or something. I've been 3d-gaming for the last 8-9 years and still have a perfect vision! I wear prescriptionglasses though but done it before 3d as well.
Just want to shoot a few straws more before you (Coldscooter, not the quoted) trashes it entirely. ;)
Cheers!
I have to agree that the fact you have to dig to adjust convergence settings is a design flaw of the kit and that you are doing yourself a disservice by not adjusting for every game. I personally would have much rather seen a separate "gaming pad" usb style plugin vs the current IR emitter that would allow you direct and easy access to all of the functions of 3DVision, but on a dedicated mini-keyboard. Simply plug it in, turn it on, and forget about it... Easily configure games to your liking without having to dig into the Nvidia control panel, enable advanced controls, map to your existing keyboard, and remember what you mapped them to...
Play with convergence. You will be happy you did!
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
To enable Convergence, you need to go into the NVCP and the shortcut keys portion and check off the advanced controls option. Then while in-game use Ctrl-F5 and Ctrl-F6 to adjust separation, for starters, I would go no more than 50% Depth, then adjust objects in the near field so that they appear as a single image. Then anything between that object and Screen Depth will appear as pop-out without giving too much separation and eye strain. With low depth you do get the effect of basically flat 2D billboards/mock-ups on a stage like you would see in a play, but once you get Depth cranked up and Convergence set properly, the effect really feels like a 3D Hologram with limitless depth set within your monitor.
As for the Brightness issues, there definitely is brightness loss of ~50%, its not quite that much as the shutter glasses don't actually block all light unfortunately (this results in some cross-talk/ghosting) and is room for improvement imo. It doesn't bother me too much however as my Alienware is far too bright for my tastes during normal usage, so I set Brightness and Contrast lower to begin with, maybe 50-60%. When 3D Vision comes on, the stereo driver takes control of Brightness/Contrast via DDCI and cranks up both to max, so while the shutter glasses decrease brightness, the monitor increases simultaneously, resulting in only maybe 20-25% drop in overall Brightness. I have read its very much a monitor-specific issue however and that the AW is typically regarded the best of the desktop 120Hz LCDs in terms of brightness.
I'd give it a bit more time before you make a final verdict on it, I wasn't completely sold at first for similar reasons you stated above, mainly the Depth/Convergence/separation until I started tweaking Convergence. I still don't use more than 50% Depth but I simply won't play games without 3D anymore. I would add my bigger concern/gripe about 3D Vision is low FPS and the associated drop in performance as a result. The most frustrating part is that performance, scaling and compatibility is often inconsistent in SLI so that there's really nothing that can be done about the drop in performance. Definitely driver issues however, so hopefully this improves.
To enable Convergence, you need to go into the NVCP and the shortcut keys portion and check off the advanced controls option. Then while in-game use Ctrl-F5 and Ctrl-F6 to adjust separation, for starters, I would go no more than 50% Depth, then adjust objects in the near field so that they appear as a single image. Then anything between that object and Screen Depth will appear as pop-out without giving too much separation and eye strain. With low depth you do get the effect of basically flat 2D billboards/mock-ups on a stage like you would see in a play, but once you get Depth cranked up and Convergence set properly, the effect really feels like a 3D Hologram with limitless depth set within your monitor.
As for the Brightness issues, there definitely is brightness loss of ~50%, its not quite that much as the shutter glasses don't actually block all light unfortunately (this results in some cross-talk/ghosting) and is room for improvement imo. It doesn't bother me too much however as my Alienware is far too bright for my tastes during normal usage, so I set Brightness and Contrast lower to begin with, maybe 50-60%. When 3D Vision comes on, the stereo driver takes control of Brightness/Contrast via DDCI and cranks up both to max, so while the shutter glasses decrease brightness, the monitor increases simultaneously, resulting in only maybe 20-25% drop in overall Brightness. I have read its very much a monitor-specific issue however and that the AW is typically regarded the best of the desktop 120Hz LCDs in terms of brightness.
I'd give it a bit more time before you make a final verdict on it, I wasn't completely sold at first for similar reasons you stated above, mainly the Depth/Convergence/separation until I started tweaking Convergence. I still don't use more than 50% Depth but I simply won't play games without 3D anymore. I would add my bigger concern/gripe about 3D Vision is low FPS and the associated drop in performance as a result. The most frustrating part is that performance, scaling and compatibility is often inconsistent in SLI so that there's really nothing that can be done about the drop in performance. Definitely driver issues however, so hopefully this improves.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Samsung 65D8000
[quote name='NicWilson89' post='1073388' date='Jun 14 2010, 08:14 PM']Actually think of it more like weightlifting for your eye muscles (technical term, lol).
The strain is due to the muscles not being used to that sort of movement for extended periods, your eyes won't get stuck like that, that's just silly.[/quote]
Actually, stereoscopy is different from the real worlsd because the picture on screen is displayed on a flat surface while in the real worls everything is in volume.
It is different and it produces a different feeling in your eyes that you aren't used to.
The human brain has no problem making the eyes converge and focus independantly, it's just that the brain creates reflexes to make it happen quickly, and breaking a reflex to establish an other one is disturming for a few moments.
If you think about it : stereoscopy is actually easier than real world (no need to focus = less work), you have also probably noticed that stereoscopy seems more 3D than the real world : you see the shapes and feel the volume quicker because the entire picture is in focus : you see more than you'd actually see in the real world. You could even say that stereoscopy is like some kind of super-vision and going back to the real world would be getting a handicap (everythig is blurry except the depth at which you focus).
I personally do experience the thing after long sessions of playing stereo, there are often a few minutes when I have a lot of trouble watching my screen in 2D and constantly loose focus when trying to read a flat text of play a game in 2D. Taking a small break and looking around in the room and purposely looking in succession at very close than far objects (essentially crossing and uncrossing eyes) helps make everything go back to normal much quicker (within a minute or so)
There have been numerous press articles speaking about people taking a few minutes to resume normal real world viewing after watching a long 3D movie but everybody got back to normal eventually.
Stereoscopy has been invented over a century ago and been heavily used on computer screens by professionals for over a decade, there hasn't been a single person who got definitely stuck crosseyed or with whatever eye illness, simply because the brain has a phnomenal capacity of adaptation at any age. The simple fact of switching back and forth between stereoscopy and real world trains your brain to work under both conditions and to be able to switch quicker.
I think there will never be particular issues with stereo or any permanent damage caused by watching stereo content, but hardware manufacturer unfortunately will never have the guts to publicly claim there is no harm watching 3D content, because hardware manufacturers have already been burnt by various lawsuits because of misusage of their products or for revealing a pre-existing condition (like 2DTVs and video games causing seizures).
Nobody wants a trial of 3DTVs because an already cross-eyed kid got cross-eyed in front of a 3DTV, mainly because of the bad press it would cause before the doctors figure out the TV did not cause the kid going cross-eyed.
[quote name='NicWilson89' post='1073388' date='Jun 14 2010, 08:14 PM']Actually think of it more like weightlifting for your eye muscles (technical term, lol).
The strain is due to the muscles not being used to that sort of movement for extended periods, your eyes won't get stuck like that, that's just silly.
Actually, stereoscopy is different from the real worlsd because the picture on screen is displayed on a flat surface while in the real worls everything is in volume.
It is different and it produces a different feeling in your eyes that you aren't used to.
The human brain has no problem making the eyes converge and focus independantly, it's just that the brain creates reflexes to make it happen quickly, and breaking a reflex to establish an other one is disturming for a few moments.
If you think about it : stereoscopy is actually easier than real world (no need to focus = less work), you have also probably noticed that stereoscopy seems more 3D than the real world : you see the shapes and feel the volume quicker because the entire picture is in focus : you see more than you'd actually see in the real world. You could even say that stereoscopy is like some kind of super-vision and going back to the real world would be getting a handicap (everythig is blurry except the depth at which you focus).
I personally do experience the thing after long sessions of playing stereo, there are often a few minutes when I have a lot of trouble watching my screen in 2D and constantly loose focus when trying to read a flat text of play a game in 2D. Taking a small break and looking around in the room and purposely looking in succession at very close than far objects (essentially crossing and uncrossing eyes) helps make everything go back to normal much quicker (within a minute or so)
There have been numerous press articles speaking about people taking a few minutes to resume normal real world viewing after watching a long 3D movie but everybody got back to normal eventually.
Stereoscopy has been invented over a century ago and been heavily used on computer screens by professionals for over a decade, there hasn't been a single person who got definitely stuck crosseyed or with whatever eye illness, simply because the brain has a phnomenal capacity of adaptation at any age. The simple fact of switching back and forth between stereoscopy and real world trains your brain to work under both conditions and to be able to switch quicker.
I think there will never be particular issues with stereo or any permanent damage caused by watching stereo content, but hardware manufacturer unfortunately will never have the guts to publicly claim there is no harm watching 3D content, because hardware manufacturers have already been burnt by various lawsuits because of misusage of their products or for revealing a pre-existing condition (like 2DTVs and video games causing seizures).
Nobody wants a trial of 3DTVs because an already cross-eyed kid got cross-eyed in front of a 3DTV, mainly because of the bad press it would cause before the doctors figure out the TV did not cause the kid going cross-eyed.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Xeon X5675 hex cores @4.4 GHz, GTX 1070, win10 pro
i7 7700k 5GHz, RTX 2080, win10 pro
Benq 2720Z, w1070, Oculus Rift cv1, Samsung Odyssey+
If you get the chance find someone who knows what they're doing, as in knows how to set up the 3d
correctly, has a powerful computer and a 3d DLP projector. Your opinion may change.
If you've already seen it on a projector and still aren't impressed, well to each their own.
If you get the chance find someone who knows what they're doing, as in knows how to set up the 3d
correctly, has a powerful computer and a 3d DLP projector. Your opinion may change.
If you've already seen it on a projector and still aren't impressed, well to each their own.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073299' date='Jun 14 2010, 05:33 PM']I was using the Samsung 120hz monitor and even it's high level of brightness couldn't compensate for the massive reduction while wearing the glasses.[/quote]
:)
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073299' date='Jun 14 2010, 05:33 PM']I was using the Samsung 120hz monitor and even it's high level of brightness couldn't compensate for the massive reduction while wearing the glasses.
:)
I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.[/quote]
LOW DEPTH to mimic real world i use 3-5% max. way tomany people have depth set to high!
Most games feel planar 3d* like older 3d films. Civ4 is a fine example.
*Like your looking at paper cutouts in 3d space. Some games go far beyond this now though. But alot of people have seen that as there only experience of n3d and think that's all N3D is....
Some new games feel like Avatar in RealD 3D, Dolby 3D and IMAX 3D formats, (some people prefer either) I found BF:Bad Company 2 mind blowing with out of screen effects and amazing depth perception (looking down iron sights felt like real life!) in n3d and like my fav moments from avatar if not better!
More games should be like BC2 soon.
You also find the more you use 3d the more accustom to it you become and the longer you can wear the specs.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Stereo_wiggle_3D.gif/200px-Stereo_wiggle_3D.gif[/img]
people who use N3d alot seem to see this wiggle pic as 3d far faster than people who don't.
It does seem you can train your brain in fake 3d.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
LOW DEPTH to mimic real world i use 3-5% max. way tomany people have depth set to high!
Most games feel planar 3d* like older 3d films. Civ4 is a fine example.
*Like your looking at paper cutouts in 3d space. Some games go far beyond this now though. But alot of people have seen that as there only experience of n3d and think that's all N3D is....
Some new games feel like Avatar in RealD 3D, Dolby 3D and IMAX 3D formats, (some people prefer either) I found BF:Bad Company 2 mind blowing with out of screen effects and amazing depth perception (looking down iron sights felt like real life!) in n3d and like my fav moments from avatar if not better!
More games should be like BC2 soon.
You also find the more you use 3d the more accustom to it you become and the longer you can wear the specs.
people who use N3d alot seem to see this wiggle pic as 3d far faster than people who don't.
It does seem you can train your brain in fake 3d.
2D: MSi 6970 2GB-QX9650-160GB SSD-TJ109. DISPLAYS:2D 120" 21:9 100HZ DLP 0.1MS, 3D 50" 400HZ Passive 0.5 MS 3D LED - 24" 120HZ 2MS Active N3D LCD, all 1080p
Avatar in the theater is good but not as good as gaming with your PC in S3D precisely because you can adjust depth and convergence, as well as brightness/colors (depends on setups, DLP TV can be adjusted independently). It is safe to say that you need to adjust convergence in your games in order to have the pop factor and separation to have the depth, and you're all set. I'm glad that you posted. Welcome to pleasure land.
A tip: You should use the Nvidia logo test in "sterescopic" settings to adjust both depth and pop (separation and convergence) until satisfied then save it which becomes your default setting. While in games, you can further adjust and save for individual games. Also you should turn on the convergence setting keys, because it's by default turned OFF. I know, it's pretty dumbed down for us by Nvidia kindness.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073774' date='Jun 15 2010, 06:30 AM']I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.[/quote]
Avatar in the theater is good but not as good as gaming with your PC in S3D precisely because you can adjust depth and convergence, as well as brightness/colors (depends on setups, DLP TV can be adjusted independently). It is safe to say that you need to adjust convergence in your games in order to have the pop factor and separation to have the depth, and you're all set. I'm glad that you posted. Welcome to pleasure land.
A tip: You should use the Nvidia logo test in "sterescopic" settings to adjust both depth and pop (separation and convergence) until satisfied then save it which becomes your default setting. While in games, you can further adjust and save for individual games. Also you should turn on the convergence setting keys, because it's by default turned OFF. I know, it's pretty dumbed down for us by Nvidia kindness.
[quote name='Coldscooter' post='1073774' date='Jun 15 2010, 06:30 AM']I was quite impressed when I saw Avatar at an Imax, which contributed to my decision to buy the kit. I didn't have the weird focusing issues during Avatar that I experienced while testing the nVidia kit.
I think based on the many comments submitted, that it takes a a bit of playing with the settings to configure the 3d to work well with games. I didn't play with any of the convergence settings, so that may well have helped.
In response another post: My monitor was the Samsung 2233RZ.
Xeon X5675 hex cores @4.4 GHz, GTX 1070, win10 pro
i7 7700k 5GHz, RTX 2080, win10 pro
Benq 2720Z, w1070, Oculus Rift cv1, Samsung Odyssey+
I find 3D in the cinema disappointing now I play games in S3D.
In the cinemas they limit the divergence so you can view it at any distance from the screen without going cross-eyed. Unfortunately you dont get the sense of infinite depth. If a game, movie had its sky box seporated to the same space as the gap between your eyes then you would percieve the distance as infinite. For example World in Conflict seems to have the depth right for my 22" monitor at the space I have it in front of me. If you ignore the horrid 2D unit icons the vistas look so much more lifelike and immersive at 100%.
I too was scared of upping depth because upping depth whilst looking at the screen made my eyes feel funny. However all games look so much better if you can get the infinite depth point correctly set.
I find 3D in the cinema disappointing now I play games in S3D.
In the cinemas they limit the divergence so you can view it at any distance from the screen without going cross-eyed. Unfortunately you dont get the sense of infinite depth. If a game, movie had its sky box seporated to the same space as the gap between your eyes then you would percieve the distance as infinite. For example World in Conflict seems to have the depth right for my 22" monitor at the space I have it in front of me. If you ignore the horrid 2D unit icons the vistas look so much more lifelike and immersive at 100%.
I too was scared of upping depth because upping depth whilst looking at the screen made my eyes feel funny. However all games look so much better if you can get the infinite depth point correctly set.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
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