Help?
I just bought a plasma 3d tv but i fell for the marketing "600Hz Subfield Motion". I need it to support at least 60fps @ 1080p while playing games in 3d, does this t.v support that? I can't find any info about the refresh rate supporting that, I don't know if it has hdmi 1.4 a/b? I phoned up samsung and asked but they just said something about if whatever I'm using supports 'side to side' something or other then the t.v will run at that speed. (sorry I can't remember exactly what he said) Any help would be great as I'm gonna send it back if it doesn't support this. T.v is Samsung PS51F5500.
I just bought a plasma 3d tv but i fell for the marketing "600Hz Subfield Motion". I need it to support at least 60fps @ 1080p while playing games in 3d, does this t.v support that? I can't find any info about the refresh rate supporting that, I don't know if it has hdmi 1.4 a/b?

I phoned up samsung and asked but they just said something about if whatever I'm using supports 'side to side' something or other then the t.v will run at that speed. (sorry I can't remember exactly what he said)

Any help would be great as I'm gonna send it back if it doesn't support this.

T.v is Samsung PS51F5500.

#1
Posted 08/23/2013 01:01 PM   
No TV does 60fps 1080p 3d. HDMI supports 24hz 1080p 3d, or 60hz 720p 3d. It doesn't have the bandwidth for more than that.
No TV does 60fps 1080p 3d. HDMI supports 24hz 1080p 3d, or 60hz 720p 3d. It doesn't have the bandwidth for more than that.

#2
Posted 08/23/2013 01:19 PM   
It's actually supported, just not required. And required is all anyone cares about. Silicon image has been selling HDMI controllers with enough bandwidth for over a year now. In OEM bulk, they cost like 5.xx dollars. But I guess they just don't care. 1 dollar X 1 million sets is an extra million in profit. Plus, would Nvidia even update 3D Play to support the resolution if they did (they can't be bothered to support 1080p @30hz). An interesting footnote, it seems some TVs of late have been using the latest Silicon Image part and they can run 1080p@120hz in undocumented modes. But it's not officially supported and you need to do some research to get it going.
It's actually supported, just not required. And required is all anyone cares about. Silicon image has been selling HDMI controllers with enough bandwidth for over a year now. In OEM bulk, they cost like 5.xx dollars. But I guess they just don't care. 1 dollar X 1 million sets is an extra million in profit. Plus, would Nvidia even update 3D Play to support the resolution if they did (they can't be bothered to support 1080p @30hz).

An interesting footnote, it seems some TVs of late have been using the latest Silicon Image part and they can run 1080p@120hz in undocumented modes. But it's not officially supported and you need to do some research to get it going.

#3
Posted 08/23/2013 01:36 PM   
[quote="Paul33993"]It's actually supported, just not required. And required is all anyone cares about. Silicon image has been selling HDMI controllers with enough bandwidth for over a year now. In OEM bulk, they cost like 5.xx dollars. But I guess they just don't care. 1 dollar X 1 million sets is an extra million in profit. Plus, would Nvidia even update 3D Play to support the resolution if they did (they can't be bothered to support 1080p @30hz). An interesting footnote, it seems some TVs of late have been using the latest Silicon Image part and they can run 1080p@120hz in undocumented modes. But it's not officially supported and you need to do some research to get it going.[/quote] Wow, didn't know it was this bad. Thanks, very informative. What do you think I should do? Bearing in mind The only reason I bought this t.v is because I want to play games in 3d. Thanks.
Paul33993 said:It's actually supported, just not required. And required is all anyone cares about. Silicon image has been selling HDMI controllers with enough bandwidth for over a year now. In OEM bulk, they cost like 5.xx dollars. But I guess they just don't care. 1 dollar X 1 million sets is an extra million in profit. Plus, would Nvidia even update 3D Play to support the resolution if they did (they can't be bothered to support 1080p @30hz).

An interesting footnote, it seems some TVs of late have been using the latest Silicon Image part and they can run 1080p@120hz in undocumented modes. But it's not officially supported and you need to do some research to get it going.


Wow, didn't know it was this bad. Thanks, very informative.

What do you think I should do? Bearing in mind The only reason I bought this t.v is because I want to play games in 3d.

Thanks.

#4
Posted 08/23/2013 03:05 PM   
I'd read some time ago that the silicon (HDMI controllers) to support this were available, it's just that the HDMI 2.0 standard still hasn't been ratified/agreed. I think ATI said that their cards have up to date controllers in them, not sure about Nvidia cards. Regarding 120hz tweaking, are you talking about http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/ ?
I'd read some time ago that the silicon (HDMI controllers) to support this were available, it's just that the HDMI 2.0 standard still hasn't been ratified/agreed.

I think ATI said that their cards have up to date controllers in them, not sure about Nvidia cards.

Regarding 120hz tweaking, are you talking about http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/ ?

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#5
Posted 08/23/2013 03:20 PM   
/\/\ Yeah. I'm talking about that. The old standard has 1080p 3D @60fps and 1080p @120hz as supported resolutions. At least it was updated at a certain point in time. It was just they weren't required. And until recently, HDMI didn't have the bandwidth even if you wanted to support it. I think they finally got around to releasing the 325mhz HDMI chipset when 4K started making waves (4k@30hz.... woohoo). And if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, some sets have shipped with the 225mhz part and can run 1080p@120hz in undocumented modes. P.S. I can't find this info any longer, but I could have sworn that when I bought my 660ti video card, part of the specs said it had the latest HDMI driver (so it just needed a compatible HDTV to be able to utilize the higher bandwidth). [quote="3deee"] What do you think I should do? Bearing in mind The only reason I bought this t.v is because I want to play games in 3d. Thanks.[/quote] Really aren't any easy answers. You have to make compromises currently. If you're not willing to go 720P 3D @60fps, then you're gonna have to go with a 3D Vision monitor to get 1080p @60fps. Those undocumented modes are interesting, but nobody is running full HD 3D to my knowledge. And Nvdia seems to have abandoned 3D. So I would definitely not expect them to start supporting hacks.
/\/\

Yeah. I'm talking about that. The old standard has 1080p 3D @60fps and 1080p @120hz as supported resolutions. At least it was updated at a certain point in time. It was just they weren't required. And until recently, HDMI didn't have the bandwidth even if you wanted to support it.

I think they finally got around to releasing the 325mhz HDMI chipset when 4K started making waves (4k@30hz.... woohoo). And if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, some sets have shipped with the 225mhz part and can run 1080p@120hz in undocumented modes.

P.S. I can't find this info any longer, but I could have sworn that when I bought my 660ti video card, part of the specs said it had the latest HDMI driver (so it just needed a compatible HDTV to be able to utilize the higher bandwidth).

3deee said:
What do you think I should do? Bearing in mind The only reason I bought this t.v is because I want to play games in 3d.

Thanks.


Really aren't any easy answers. You have to make compromises currently. If you're not willing to go 720P 3D @60fps, then you're gonna have to go with a 3D Vision monitor to get 1080p @60fps. Those undocumented modes are interesting, but nobody is running full HD 3D to my knowledge. And Nvdia seems to have abandoned 3D. So I would definitely not expect them to start supporting hacks.

#6
Posted 08/23/2013 03:28 PM   
1920x1080@120Hz requires around a 285MHz pixel clock.
1920x1080@120Hz requires around a 285MHz pixel clock.

#7
Posted 08/23/2013 04:33 PM   
Yeah, it's lame, but at present you are stuck at 720p for 120Hz regardless. Since we are stuck there, I recommend taking the TV back and buying a 720p projector instead. If you have room for a 120" screen, the gaming experience is dramatically better than when I used monitors or TVs. This is for emphasizing gaming. If you were more interested in Blu-ray or watching TV itself, it might not make as much sense.
Yeah, it's lame, but at present you are stuck at 720p for 120Hz regardless.

Since we are stuck there, I recommend taking the TV back and buying a 720p projector instead. If you have room for a 120" screen, the gaming experience is dramatically better than when I used monitors or TVs.

This is for emphasizing gaming. If you were more interested in Blu-ray or watching TV itself, it might not make as much sense.

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#8
Posted 08/23/2013 04:41 PM   
Thanks for your help guys! I'm a complete noob about all this... I think I'll stick with the t.v and see how it goes and give some of the workarounds you have suggested a try. I'll settle for less than full HD (now lol) but I just don't want to play in 720P! Shame Nvidia abandoned 3d vision seeing as how they are still selling the glasses and 3dtv play software. Thanks much appreciated.
Thanks for your help guys! I'm a complete noob about all this... I think I'll stick with the t.v and see how it goes and give some of the workarounds you have suggested a try. I'll settle for less than full HD (now lol) but I just don't want to play in 720P!

Shame Nvidia abandoned 3d vision seeing as how they are still selling the glasses and 3dtv play software.

Thanks much appreciated.

#9
Posted 08/23/2013 05:09 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]1920x1080@120Hz requires around a 285MHz pixel clock.[/quote] Oops. It's been about six months since I've really researched things and I was going by memory. Silicon Image no longer lists all the detailed specs and prices on their website. The new chipset I was mentioning earlier was either 300 or 325mhz. It's kind of funny how Silicon Image no longer posts so much info on their website. It used to be quoted a ton on various forums because it really illustrated the ridiculousness of the situation. The new 325 mhz part was selling for 5 bucks a pop and none of the TV manufacturers were buying it.
D-Man11 said:1920x1080@120Hz requires around a 285MHz pixel clock.


Oops. It's been about six months since I've really researched things and I was going by memory. Silicon Image no longer lists all the detailed specs and prices on their website. The new chipset I was mentioning earlier was either 300 or 325mhz.

It's kind of funny how Silicon Image no longer posts so much info on their website. It used to be quoted a ton on various forums because it really illustrated the ridiculousness of the situation. The new 325 mhz part was selling for 5 bucks a pop and none of the TV manufacturers were buying it.

#10
Posted 08/23/2013 05:11 PM   
[quote="3deee"]Thanks for your help guys! I'm a complete noob about all this... I think I'll stick with the t.v and see how it goes and give some of the workarounds you have suggested a try. I'll settle for less than full HD (now lol) but I just don't want to play in 720P! Shame Nvidia abandoned 3d vision seeing as how they are still selling the glasses and 3dtv play software. Thanks much appreciated.[/quote]For 3D gaming, in my experience screen size matters more than resolution. Also remember that with 3D you get are getting twice the pixels, so it's not exactly 720p, it's 1280x720x2 @60Hz. That extra frame of info from the other eye's perspective makes the resolution at least 2x better. For what it's worth, I never notice resolution when gaming in 3D at 8 feet from a 120" screen. (And initially I was quite concerned about the low resolution too.)
3deee said:Thanks for your help guys! I'm a complete noob about all this... I think I'll stick with the t.v and see how it goes and give some of the workarounds you have suggested a try. I'll settle for less than full HD (now lol) but I just don't want to play in 720P!

Shame Nvidia abandoned 3d vision seeing as how they are still selling the glasses and 3dtv play software.

Thanks much appreciated.
For 3D gaming, in my experience screen size matters more than resolution.

Also remember that with 3D you get are getting twice the pixels, so it's not exactly 720p, it's 1280x720x2 @60Hz. That extra frame of info from the other eye's perspective makes the resolution at least 2x better.

For what it's worth, I never notice resolution when gaming in 3D at 8 feet from a 120" screen. (And initially I was quite concerned about the low resolution too.)

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#11
Posted 08/23/2013 05:21 PM   
[quote]Also remember that with 3D you get are getting twice the pixels, so it's not exactly 720p, it's 1280x720x2 @60Hz. That extra frame of info from the other eye's perspective makes the resolution at least 2x better. [/quote] That's cool I didn't know that. [quote](And initially I was quite concerned about the low resolution too.)[/quote] Yeah I'm probably worrying too much. I do also want to watch 3d blu-rays as well, so should be good.
Also remember that with 3D you get are getting twice the pixels, so it's not exactly 720p, it's 1280x720x2 @60Hz. That extra frame of info from the other eye's perspective makes the resolution at least 2x better.


That's cool I didn't know that.

(And initially I was quite concerned about the low resolution too.)


Yeah I'm probably worrying too much. I do also want to watch 3d blu-rays as well, so should be good.

#12
Posted 08/23/2013 06:20 PM   
He's right, 3d gaming even in 720p looks better than you might expect, although that's probably subject to any scaling the display device does. I think it might be due to what proponents of passive (interleaved) 3d call temporal resolution and it's probably why high levels of AA aren't really necessary either. I don't know, the brain and eyes do funny things :-) That said, part of me still cries that we are completely hamstrung by stupid interface limitations.
He's right, 3d gaming even in 720p looks better than you might expect, although that's probably subject to any scaling the display device does.
I think it might be due to what proponents of passive (interleaved) 3d call temporal resolution and it's probably why high levels of AA aren't really necessary either.

I don't know, the brain and eyes do funny things :-)

That said, part of me still cries that we are completely hamstrung by stupid interface limitations.

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#13
Posted 08/23/2013 07:05 PM   
Interesting. Going through the latest comments on the blurbusters site, I'm beginning to think all the 2013 Sony's are using the latest HDMI chipset. Even their budget model. It's a real shame none of the 3D software solutions are willing to exploit this.
Interesting. Going through the latest comments on the blurbusters site, I'm beginning to think all the 2013 Sony's are using the latest HDMI chipset. Even their budget model. It's a real shame none of the 3D software solutions are willing to exploit this.

#14
Posted 08/24/2013 09:34 PM   
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