[quote="foreverseeking"]Yes, that is a concern. How will the Omni work if the OR requires a stationary camera and infra red dots on the OR... So much for facing any direction you want. I really hope they can find a better solution that suits the hardcore VR crowd as well as the mainstream, who I'm guessing Oculus believes will be sitting in front of their monitor and camera (which to me makes no sense, as there would still only be one proper way for your head to be facing, largely defeating the point of being able to look around.)
[/quote]
They have said that the camera is not a 'must' for them - it was just their current solution for that particular issue, but if it can help them find another solution they would gladly drop the camera
foreverseeking said:Yes, that is a concern. How will the Omni work if the OR requires a stationary camera and infra red dots on the OR... So much for facing any direction you want. I really hope they can find a better solution that suits the hardcore VR crowd as well as the mainstream, who I'm guessing Oculus believes will be sitting in front of their monitor and camera (which to me makes no sense, as there would still only be one proper way for your head to be facing, largely defeating the point of being able to look around.)
They have said that the camera is not a 'must' for them - it was just their current solution for that particular issue, but if it can help them find another solution they would gladly drop the camera
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Who says there aren't also markers on the straps?[/quote]
That may be the case, but look how many markers are on the front. There clearly can't be that many on the back/sides, which means that either positional tracking won't work as good, or won't work at all unless you are facing towards the camera.
I know the camera isn't something you have to have, but moving your head closer to something is pretty important for immersive VR and to prevent motion sickness (with the latter being the reason OR stresses its importance.) It's something I would love to see a solution where the camera is not needed, or can easily do 360 degrees somehow.
[quote="birthright"]Dont forget the Cyberith Virtualizer either:[/quote]
That products top half looks fantastic, and much better than the omni. The bottom half looks much worse imo though, with an incredibly arduous method for walking (essentially moonwalking.) The omni is not a perfect walking system, but looks far more comfortable and natural to me.
A mix of the omni for the feet and the virtualiser for the support system and seat could be the winning combination. The ability to go from walking to sitting in a car is obviously quite amazing and probably important for long gaming sessions where fatigue might set in if you're always standing.
It's great that there is so many start up companies and ideas that are converging around the OR. Love it or hate it, it can only bring interest into 3D and 3D worlds.
Pirateguybrush said:Who says there aren't also markers on the straps?
That may be the case, but look how many markers are on the front. There clearly can't be that many on the back/sides, which means that either positional tracking won't work as good, or won't work at all unless you are facing towards the camera.
I know the camera isn't something you have to have, but moving your head closer to something is pretty important for immersive VR and to prevent motion sickness (with the latter being the reason OR stresses its importance.) It's something I would love to see a solution where the camera is not needed, or can easily do 360 degrees somehow.
birthright said:Dont forget the Cyberith Virtualizer either:
That products top half looks fantastic, and much better than the omni. The bottom half looks much worse imo though, with an incredibly arduous method for walking (essentially moonwalking.) The omni is not a perfect walking system, but looks far more comfortable and natural to me.
A mix of the omni for the feet and the virtualiser for the support system and seat could be the winning combination. The ability to go from walking to sitting in a car is obviously quite amazing and probably important for long gaming sessions where fatigue might set in if you're always standing.
It's great that there is so many start up companies and ideas that are converging around the OR. Love it or hate it, it can only bring interest into 3D and 3D worlds.
I'm holding out for Tony Little's version so I can run as fast as a Gazelle in Far Cry 3!
[img]http://www.gimpchat.com/files/147_tony_little_gazelle.jpg[/img] [img]http://gifs.gifbin.com/102011/1318274996_buck_owns_mountain_biker.gif[/img]
Seriously, though I have zero interest in actually using any of those things, sure they're interesting and all as far as attempting to get something like that to work but I'd never actually buy one. :)
I'm holding out for Tony Little's version so I can run as fast as a Gazelle in Far Cry 3!
Seriously, though I have zero interest in actually using any of those things, sure they're interesting and all as far as attempting to get something like that to work but I'd never actually buy one. :)
SIXENSE in my opinion should be a good solution. I ordered their new STEM system, and since it doesn't use a camera but instead magnetic fields no need to keep facing a camera. It would be nice if these two companies can work together for that.
I don't know of any other way of getting positional tracking without an external source of some form
SIXENSE in my opinion should be a good solution. I ordered their new STEM system, and since it doesn't use a camera but instead magnetic fields no need to keep facing a camera. It would be nice if these two companies can work together for that.
I don't know of any other way of getting positional tracking without an external source of some form
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I don't really see why you need sensors in the back (although they're there in small numbers). Wouldn't the Omni or whatever provide this data if you were using it? And if you weren't strapped into some contraption, more detailed tracking would be pretty useless anyways. You don't want to be walking around doing gestures. You're blind in that thing. You'll ending up breaking things and/or busting up your shins. It's not like some professional place where the VR world is built to match the room's layout.
I don't really see why you need sensors in the back (although they're there in small numbers). Wouldn't the Omni or whatever provide this data if you were using it? And if you weren't strapped into some contraption, more detailed tracking would be pretty useless anyways. You don't want to be walking around doing gestures. You're blind in that thing. You'll ending up breaking things and/or busting up your shins. It's not like some professional place where the VR world is built to match the room's layout.
Well, even when sitting in a cockpit flying, you need to look nearly backwards to check your 6. I play flight sims and I do this all the time. Currently its possible with my trackIR because headmovement in game is higher ratio than actual head movement but with VR headset obviously the intention is 1:1 ratio, hence a need to look nearly backwards and maintain all head positional data for consistency.
Also, in ETS2 I sometimes stick my head out the window and look backwards when parking the trailer. All possible with trackIR ratio movement buy not sure how 1:1 in VR headset will accomplish this as it looks now.
All this looks great in 3D btw. TrackIR and 3D for flight sims look brilliant. I have my doubts about the same fixed camera solution for true VR though.
Edit: corrected typographical errors due to typing way too fast for my ipad.
Well, even when sitting in a cockpit flying, you need to look nearly backwards to check your 6. I play flight sims and I do this all the time. Currently its possible with my trackIR because headmovement in game is higher ratio than actual head movement but with VR headset obviously the intention is 1:1 ratio, hence a need to look nearly backwards and maintain all head positional data for consistency.
Also, in ETS2 I sometimes stick my head out the window and look backwards when parking the trailer. All possible with trackIR ratio movement buy not sure how 1:1 in VR headset will accomplish this as it looks now.
All this looks great in 3D btw. TrackIR and 3D for flight sims look brilliant. I have my doubts about the same fixed camera solution for true VR though.
Edit: corrected typographical errors due to typing way too fast for my ipad.
[quote="Paul33993"]I don't really see why you need sensors in the back (although they're there in small numbers). Wouldn't the Omni or whatever provide this data if you were using it? And if you weren't strapped into some contraption, more detailed tracking would be pretty useless anyways. You don't want to be walking around doing gestures. You're blind in that thing. You'll ending up breaking things and/or busting up your shins. It's not like some professional place where the VR world is built to match the room's layout.[/quote]
TBH, I think the omni is pretty friggin scary. If it works like intended and your immersed in action scenes whatever your going to be applying a lot of force. Your blind and over time it will take so much wear it just sounds like such a bad idea.
---------------
I'm glad that they are adding positional tracking to the unit rather then reliance on third party devices. Like lets say everyone buys oculus rift, how many people will buy which device as "there accessory". Then expecting a developer to support "that accessory" at that adoption rate is kind of insane. Not to mention renderers like Tridef. TBH, I think only the devices that don't require developer intervention OR require a huge amount of calibration will last. I really see the stem becoming the "accessory of choice" because its simple to use and has functionality outside of fully supported games.
Though Im kind of interested in PrioVR's application outside of gaming [but in no way do I feel it's going to get implemented into games].
Paul33993 said:I don't really see why you need sensors in the back (although they're there in small numbers). Wouldn't the Omni or whatever provide this data if you were using it? And if you weren't strapped into some contraption, more detailed tracking would be pretty useless anyways. You don't want to be walking around doing gestures. You're blind in that thing. You'll ending up breaking things and/or busting up your shins. It's not like some professional place where the VR world is built to match the room's layout.
TBH, I think the omni is pretty friggin scary. If it works like intended and your immersed in action scenes whatever your going to be applying a lot of force. Your blind and over time it will take so much wear it just sounds like such a bad idea.
---------------
I'm glad that they are adding positional tracking to the unit rather then reliance on third party devices. Like lets say everyone buys oculus rift, how many people will buy which device as "there accessory". Then expecting a developer to support "that accessory" at that adoption rate is kind of insane. Not to mention renderers like Tridef. TBH, I think only the devices that don't require developer intervention OR require a huge amount of calibration will last. I really see the stem becoming the "accessory of choice" because its simple to use and has functionality outside of fully supported games.
Though Im kind of interested in PrioVR's application outside of gaming [but in no way do I feel it's going to get implemented into games].
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If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Apparently there's a new wrapper for games with stereoscopic VR support that includes dx10 and 11 called enthusim http://www.roadtovr.com/ces-2014-day-two-roundup-castar-hd-next3d-tactical-haptics-nthusim/
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
[quote="birthright"]Apparently there's a new wrapper for games with stereoscopic VR support that includes dx10 and 11 called enthusim http://www.roadtovr.com/ces-2014-day-two-roundup-castar-hd-next3d-tactical-haptics-nthusim/[/quote]
Whoa, it's $300 for the software? Apparently if you pre-order it's available immediately?
[quote="danielmalvarado"][quote="birthright"]Apparently there's a new wrapper for games with stereoscopic VR support that includes dx10 and 11 called enthusim http://www.roadtovr.com/ces-2014-day-two-roundup-castar-hd-next3d-tactical-haptics-nthusim/[/quote]
Whoa, it's $300 for the software? Apparently if you pre-order it's available immediately?
[/quote]
Yeah, at first I though the same, but that's Nthusim for projectors, tvs etc, Nthusim HMD however is for the Oculus and HMDs, you can see it at the top of the store page here http://www.nthusim.com/store , and it's 19.95
Whoa, it's $300 for the software? Apparently if you pre-order it's available immediately?
Yeah, at first I though the same, but that's Nthusim for projectors, tvs etc, Nthusim HMD however is for the Oculus and HMDs, you can see it at the top of the store page here http://www.nthusim.com/store , and it's 19.95
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
[quote="birthright"]
Yeah, at first I though the same, but that's Nthusim for projectors, tvs etc, Nthusim HMD however is for the Oculus and HMDs, you can see it at the top of the store page here http://www.nthusim.com/store , and it's 19.95[/quote]
Oh lol whew, thanks. I'd be interested to hear from anyone bold enough to cough up the $20! :)
birthright said:
Yeah, at first I though the same, but that's Nthusim for projectors, tvs etc, Nthusim HMD however is for the Oculus and HMDs, you can see it at the top of the store page here http://www.nthusim.com/store , and it's 19.95
Oh lol whew, thanks. I'd be interested to hear from anyone bold enough to cough up the $20! :)
Easily the most impressive thing to me about CrystalCove is that they solved the 'smearing' motion blur problem. I earlier said that seemed like the hardest technical challenge they faced, since none of the current off-the-shelf displays work properly to solve this.
That was before $75M in capital, and that puts them into the big leagues in terms of making their own designs, maybe even their own screens.
Their solution is really clever- they mostly turn the pixels off to black. Apparently with some custom hardware, rather than keep an LCD pixel on whatever it last was for a full frame, they kill it quickly, so it's only showing data for about 2ms instead of a full 16ms. That apparently has the effect of seeing black while you move your head, which your brain/eyes don't object to like they do a stale pixel.
Super impressive. Really looking forward to their next prototype.
Easily the most impressive thing to me about CrystalCove is that they solved the 'smearing' motion blur problem. I earlier said that seemed like the hardest technical challenge they faced, since none of the current off-the-shelf displays work properly to solve this.
That was before $75M in capital, and that puts them into the big leagues in terms of making their own designs, maybe even their own screens.
Their solution is really clever- they mostly turn the pixels off to black. Apparently with some custom hardware, rather than keep an LCD pixel on whatever it last was for a full frame, they kill it quickly, so it's only showing data for about 2ms instead of a full 16ms. That apparently has the effect of seeing black while you move your head, which your brain/eyes don't object to like they do a stale pixel.
Super impressive. Really looking forward to their next prototype.
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[quote="bo3b"]Easily the most impressive thing to me about CrystalCove is that they solved the 'smearing' motion blur problem. I earlier said that seemed like the hardest technical challenge they faced, since none of the current off-the-shelf displays work properly to solve this.
That was before $75M in capital, and that puts them into the big leagues in terms of making their own designs, maybe even their own screens.
Their solution is really clever- they mostly turn the pixels off to black. Apparently with some custom hardware, rather than keep an LCD pixel on whatever it last was for a full frame, they kill it quickly, so it's only showing data for about 2ms instead of a full 16ms. That apparently has the effect of seeing black while you move your head, which your brain/eyes don't object to like they do a stale pixel.
Super impressive. Really looking forward to their next prototype.[/quote]
Super excited they went with OLED displays. Can you imagine space (dark) games or games like outlast with infinite contrast ratio! OMFG!
It's not just the OLED that negated the smear. They are using black frame insertion as well to get CRT like motion. You can see this in one of the new demo videos where they can toggle the smear on and off with the new crystal cove. Black frame insertion gets rid of the sample and hold effect that all persistent (always on) displays including OLED have. I wonder if they will have a slight flicker because of this? OLEDs are MUCH faster then LCD but still suffer from the sample and hold effect.
bo3b said:Easily the most impressive thing to me about CrystalCove is that they solved the 'smearing' motion blur problem. I earlier said that seemed like the hardest technical challenge they faced, since none of the current off-the-shelf displays work properly to solve this.
That was before $75M in capital, and that puts them into the big leagues in terms of making their own designs, maybe even their own screens.
Their solution is really clever- they mostly turn the pixels off to black. Apparently with some custom hardware, rather than keep an LCD pixel on whatever it last was for a full frame, they kill it quickly, so it's only showing data for about 2ms instead of a full 16ms. That apparently has the effect of seeing black while you move your head, which your brain/eyes don't object to like they do a stale pixel.
Super impressive. Really looking forward to their next prototype.
Super excited they went with OLED displays. Can you imagine space (dark) games or games like outlast with infinite contrast ratio! OMFG!
It's not just the OLED that negated the smear. They are using black frame insertion as well to get CRT like motion. You can see this in one of the new demo videos where they can toggle the smear on and off with the new crystal cove. Black frame insertion gets rid of the sample and hold effect that all persistent (always on) displays including OLED have. I wonder if they will have a slight flicker because of this? OLEDs are MUCH faster then LCD but still suffer from the sample and hold effect.
They have said that the camera is not a 'must' for them - it was just their current solution for that particular issue, but if it can help them find another solution they would gladly drop the camera
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
That may be the case, but look how many markers are on the front. There clearly can't be that many on the back/sides, which means that either positional tracking won't work as good, or won't work at all unless you are facing towards the camera.
I know the camera isn't something you have to have, but moving your head closer to something is pretty important for immersive VR and to prevent motion sickness (with the latter being the reason OR stresses its importance.) It's something I would love to see a solution where the camera is not needed, or can easily do 360 degrees somehow.
That products top half looks fantastic, and much better than the omni. The bottom half looks much worse imo though, with an incredibly arduous method for walking (essentially moonwalking.) The omni is not a perfect walking system, but looks far more comfortable and natural to me.
A mix of the omni for the feet and the virtualiser for the support system and seat could be the winning combination. The ability to go from walking to sitting in a car is obviously quite amazing and probably important for long gaming sessions where fatigue might set in if you're always standing.
It's great that there is so many start up companies and ideas that are converging around the OR. Love it or hate it, it can only bring interest into 3D and 3D worlds.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
Seriously, though I have zero interest in actually using any of those things, sure they're interesting and all as far as attempting to get something like that to work but I'd never actually buy one. :)
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
I don't know of any other way of getting positional tracking without an external source of some form
Intel Core i9-9820x @ 3.30GHZ
32 gig Ram
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3 X ASUS ROG SWIFT 27 144Hz G-SYNC Gaming 3D Monitor [PG278Q]
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Nvidia 3Dvision
Oculus Rift
HTC VIVE
Windows 10
Also, in ETS2 I sometimes stick my head out the window and look backwards when parking the trailer. All possible with trackIR ratio movement buy not sure how 1:1 in VR headset will accomplish this as it looks now.
All this looks great in 3D btw. TrackIR and 3D for flight sims look brilliant. I have my doubts about the same fixed camera solution for true VR though.
Edit: corrected typographical errors due to typing way too fast for my ipad.
TBH, I think the omni is pretty friggin scary. If it works like intended and your immersed in action scenes whatever your going to be applying a lot of force. Your blind and over time it will take so much wear it just sounds like such a bad idea.
---------------
I'm glad that they are adding positional tracking to the unit rather then reliance on third party devices. Like lets say everyone buys oculus rift, how many people will buy which device as "there accessory". Then expecting a developer to support "that accessory" at that adoption rate is kind of insane. Not to mention renderers like Tridef. TBH, I think only the devices that don't require developer intervention OR require a huge amount of calibration will last. I really see the stem becoming the "accessory of choice" because its simple to use and has functionality outside of fully supported games.
Though Im kind of interested in PrioVR's application outside of gaming [but in no way do I feel it's going to get implemented into games].
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
Whoa, it's $300 for the software? Apparently if you pre-order it's available immediately?
Yeah, at first I though the same, but that's Nthusim for projectors, tvs etc, Nthusim HMD however is for the Oculus and HMDs, you can see it at the top of the store page here http://www.nthusim.com/store , and it's 19.95
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
Oh lol whew, thanks. I'd be interested to hear from anyone bold enough to cough up the $20! :)
That was before $75M in capital, and that puts them into the big leagues in terms of making their own designs, maybe even their own screens.
Their solution is really clever- they mostly turn the pixels off to black. Apparently with some custom hardware, rather than keep an LCD pixel on whatever it last was for a full frame, they kill it quickly, so it's only showing data for about 2ms instead of a full 16ms. That apparently has the effect of seeing black while you move your head, which your brain/eyes don't object to like they do a stale pixel.
Super impressive. Really looking forward to their next prototype.
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Super excited they went with OLED displays. Can you imagine space (dark) games or games like outlast with infinite contrast ratio! OMFG!
It's not just the OLED that negated the smear. They are using black frame insertion as well to get CRT like motion. You can see this in one of the new demo videos where they can toggle the smear on and off with the new crystal cove. Black frame insertion gets rid of the sample and hold effect that all persistent (always on) displays including OLED have. I wonder if they will have a slight flicker because of this? OLEDs are MUCH faster then LCD but still suffer from the sample and hold effect.