Dolby Atmos
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[quote="Metaloholic"] I wouldn't place Any 5.1 or 7.1 speakers high as you can clearly hear the sound coming from high[/quote] This is not totally true. I have my rear speakers high with an angle downwards and calibrated with the receiver. If the calibration is well done you won't hear the sound coming directly from the speaker. chtiblue I tried calibrating myself but without proper equipment it is very difficult so I opted for a receiver with automatic calibration feature and it does it very well.
Metaloholic said:

I wouldn't place Any 5.1 or 7.1 speakers high as you can clearly hear the sound coming from high


This is not totally true. I have my rear speakers high with an angle downwards and calibrated with the receiver.
If the calibration is well done you won't hear the sound coming directly from the speaker.


chtiblue I tried calibrating myself but without proper equipment it is very difficult so I opted for a receiver with automatic calibration feature and it does it very well.

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#31
Posted 05/04/2016 05:03 AM   
w[quote="joker18"][quote="Metaloholic"] I wouldn't place Any 5.1 or 7.1 speakers high as you can clearly hear the sound coming from high[/quote] This is not totally true. I have my rear speakers high with an angle downwards and calibrated with the receiver. If the calibration is well done you won't hear the sound coming directly from the speaker. chtiblue I tried calibrating myself but without proper equipment it is very difficult so I opted for a receiver with automatic calibration feature and it does it very well. [/quote] Thanks for the info ! And it´s sometimes not on option to place rear speakers low, you need prettu long room for that.
w
joker18 said:
Metaloholic said:

I wouldn't place Any 5.1 or 7.1 speakers high as you can clearly hear the sound coming from high


This is not totally true. I have my rear speakers high with an angle downwards and calibrated with the receiver.
If the calibration is well done you won't hear the sound coming directly from the speaker.


chtiblue I tried calibrating myself but without proper equipment it is very difficult so I opted for a receiver with automatic calibration feature and it does it very well.



Thanks for the info !

And it´s sometimes not on option to place rear speakers low, you need prettu long room for that.

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#32
Posted 05/04/2016 05:59 PM   
Actually speaker placement is key. If you put yourselves high you'll hear the sound coming from above. High frequencies are very directional with the lower bass frequencies being less directional. You should have your tweeters pointing at your ear and have everything at the same height, ideally. Also room EQ wizards and the likes might be a quick fix but it's also a stop gap method and not ideal. Cutting and boosting frequencies to get an even room response is futile. You'll have one sweet spot in the whole room and moving your head just a few inches left or right will drastically affect the sound. You'd be better off working adjusting speaker placement and adding acoustic treatment. This way you are fixing the problem at source rather than using a band aid fix. You want really thick acoustic treatment from the likes of blue frog audio. These foam tiles are crap and only stop high and high mid frequencies. They basically make you room sound dull! They tried using these room EQ software packages in recording studios a fair few years ago and they just simply don't work properly. It failed in the recording industry also now they are pushing it for the consumer industry. I know people will disagree and if it works for you then great, just realise there are a lot better ways to get a better result.
Actually speaker placement is key.
If you put yourselves high you'll hear the sound coming from above.
High frequencies are very directional with the lower bass frequencies being less directional.
You should have your tweeters pointing at your ear and have everything at the same height, ideally.

Also room EQ wizards and the likes might be a quick fix but it's also a stop gap method and not ideal.
Cutting and boosting frequencies to get an even room response is futile.
You'll have one sweet spot in the whole room and moving your head just a few inches left or right will drastically affect the sound.

You'd be better off working adjusting speaker placement and adding acoustic treatment. This way you are fixing the problem at source rather than using a band aid fix.
You want really thick acoustic treatment from the likes of blue frog audio. These foam tiles are crap and only stop high and high mid frequencies. They basically make you room sound dull!

They tried using these room EQ software packages in recording studios a fair few years ago and they just simply don't work properly.
It failed in the recording industry also now they are pushing it for the consumer industry.

I know people will disagree and if it works for you then great, just realise there are a lot better ways to get a better result.

#33
Posted 05/05/2016 11:41 AM   
agreed Gibson, room Eq wizard should only be used for proper speakers (and acoustic treatment) placement (as the video describes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4uSR3cUUSY) You only need a 50$ measurment mic, a pc, a little soundcart (only one mic preamp with 48v is needed) and Room Eq Wizard... GIK acoustics make very good and affordable acoustic treatments. They give you good acoustical advices too. http://www.gikacoustics.com/
agreed Gibson, room Eq wizard should only be used for proper speakers (and acoustic treatment) placement (as the video describes it:
)

You only need a 50$ measurment mic, a pc, a little soundcart (only one mic preamp with 48v is needed) and Room Eq Wizard...

GIK acoustics make very good and affordable acoustic treatments. They give you good acoustical advices too.


http://www.gikacoustics.com/

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#34
Posted 05/05/2016 12:27 PM   
Will be amazing if games support 5.1 or 7.1 sound with realtime object position. This plus S3D will be an awesome experience (i dream playing Dead Space serie like that)....right now for gaming i have to use the Dolby Prologic II. If your Receiver support Dolby TrueHD, you still can decode Dolby Atmos (but without the additional atmos track). I have a few blurays with Dolby Atmos and when i reproduce with Dolby Atmos track, my Receiver detect a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 track and can reproduce without issues.
Will be amazing if games support 5.1 or 7.1 sound with realtime object position. This plus S3D will be an awesome experience (i dream playing Dead Space serie like that)....right now for gaming i have to use the Dolby Prologic II.

If your Receiver support Dolby TrueHD, you still can decode Dolby Atmos (but without the additional atmos track). I have a few blurays with Dolby Atmos and when i reproduce with Dolby Atmos track, my Receiver detect a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 track and can reproduce without issues.

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#35
Posted 05/06/2016 03:34 PM   
But why Dolby Prologic II? this is just simulated 5.1 7.1. You can have real 5.1 in games, most probably also 7.1 but my receiver doesn't support 7.1
But why Dolby Prologic II? this is just simulated 5.1 7.1.
You can have real 5.1 in games, most probably also 7.1 but my receiver doesn't support 7.1

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#36
Posted 05/06/2016 05:29 PM   
Yes, Dolby Prologic II is a simulated 5.1 Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i never get individual 6 channel signal in games. If i connect via: - HDMI --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless) - Jacks (for 5.1) --> sound in Front speakers = rear speakers.....is like duplicated stereo sound in front and rear....that's not real 5.1 - Digital output --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless) In movies i can get 5.1 or 7.1 individial channels via HDMI, digital output and jacks (5.1)
Yes, Dolby Prologic II is a simulated 5.1

Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i never get individual 6 channel signal in games.

If i connect via:
- HDMI --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless)
- Jacks (for 5.1) --> sound in Front speakers = rear speakers.....is like duplicated stereo sound in front and rear....that's not real 5.1
- Digital output --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless)


In movies i can get 5.1 or 7.1 individial channels via HDMI, digital output and jacks (5.1)

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#37
Posted 05/06/2016 06:21 PM   
Not sure if this is the case but did you set it for 5.1/7.1 in the Control Panel? Even after I've set mine at times it resets itself back to Stereo... it's also dependent on the game/source. Control Panel > Sound > Playback > [Select Device] > Configure edit:if you can only select Stereo on HDMI then it may need an EDID override. My Mitsubishi 3D DLP would only have Stereo as an option, so I dumped my Mitsubishi's EDID, my Onkyo's EDID, merged them and have been using the override ever since. HDMI to my splitter, proper 3D to my DLP and 5.1 to my Onkyo RCVR. edit:edit:I'll never forget the first time I set up my 1st Onkyo 5.1 RCVR, switching from a Dolby Pro-Logic II RCVR... pretty sure it was on the first Xbox, Doom 3 via toslink... the rear channels were so clear, the doors/rooms opening and closing behind me. :)
Not sure if this is the case but did you set it for 5.1/7.1 in the Control Panel? Even after I've set mine at times it resets itself back to Stereo... it's also dependent on the game/source.

Control Panel > Sound > Playback > [Select Device] > Configure

edit:if you can only select Stereo on HDMI then it may need an EDID override. My Mitsubishi 3D DLP would only have Stereo as an option, so I dumped my Mitsubishi's EDID, my Onkyo's EDID, merged them and have been using the override ever since. HDMI to my splitter, proper 3D to my DLP and 5.1 to my Onkyo RCVR.

edit:edit:I'll never forget the first time I set up my 1st Onkyo 5.1 RCVR, switching from a Dolby Pro-Logic II RCVR... pretty sure it was on the first Xbox, Doom 3 via toslink... the rear channels were so clear, the doors/rooms opening and closing behind me. :)
#38
Posted 05/06/2016 06:33 PM   
DHR. You definitely have something setup wrong. If you use the analogue outs you should go to sound properties configure your sound card and make sure it is set to 5.1. You should be able to see speakers you can click to test each speaker indivdually. Then make sure you have 5.1 selected in the audio settings of the game you are playing. If the speakers are wrong just check the wiring or any software mixer for the soundcard you might be running. On a separate note. All games have object based audio (or the equivalent of) as they are rendered in real time and need to be adaptable depending on what the player chooses to do in the game. Films aren't rendered in real time so they are just 6 wavs for 5.1 and 8 wavs for 7.1 (not taking matrixed channels into consideration) Atmos and DTSX uses object based audio so it can be scalable with any amount of speakers. If you have 2 speakers or 64 speakers you still only need the one disc. That's the beauty of it. Hearing sounds overhead and washing around you is very impressive. Star Wars Battlefront is free play this weekend so if you have an atmos setup go and try it.
DHR. You definitely have something setup wrong.
If you use the analogue outs you should go to sound properties configure your sound card and make sure it is set to 5.1.
You should be able to see speakers you can click to test each speaker indivdually.
Then make sure you have 5.1 selected in the audio settings of the game you are playing.
If the speakers are wrong just check the wiring or any software mixer for the soundcard you might be running.

On a separate note.
All games have object based audio (or the equivalent of) as they are rendered in real time and need to be adaptable depending on what the player chooses to do in the game.
Films aren't rendered in real time so they are just 6 wavs for 5.1 and 8 wavs for 7.1 (not taking matrixed channels into consideration)
Atmos and DTSX uses object based audio so it can be scalable with any amount of speakers. If you have 2 speakers or 64 speakers you still only need the one disc. That's the beauty of it.

Hearing sounds overhead and washing around you is very impressive.
Star Wars Battlefront is free play this weekend so if you have an atmos setup go and try it.

#39
Posted 05/06/2016 07:18 PM   
[quote="DHR"]Yes, Dolby Prologic II is a simulated 5.1 Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i never get individual 6 channel signal in games. If i connect via: - HDMI --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless) - Jacks (for 5.1) --> sound in Front speakers = rear speakers.....is like duplicated stereo sound in front and rear....that's not real 5.1 - Digital output --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless) In movies i can get 5.1 or 7.1 individial channels via HDMI, digital output and jacks (5.1)[/quote] If you get the signal trough HDMI than the first thing to check is control panel->sound. Then check under supported formats on you receiver if it shows 8 channels or only 2.
DHR said:Yes, Dolby Prologic II is a simulated 5.1

Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i never get individual 6 channel signal in games.

If i connect via:
- HDMI --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless)
- Jacks (for 5.1) --> sound in Front speakers = rear speakers.....is like duplicated stereo sound in front and rear....that's not real 5.1
- Digital output --> Stereo signal (2 Channel lossless)


In movies i can get 5.1 or 7.1 individial channels via HDMI, digital output and jacks (5.1)


If you get the signal trough HDMI than the first thing to check is control panel->sound. Then check under supported formats on you receiver if it shows 8 channels or only 2.

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#40
Posted 05/06/2016 08:02 PM   
There been years when i try to configure (in windows, soundcard, receiver, etc)...never get 5.1 from any game. Now with the kids, i play with headphones or very low sound (i play when they sleep). Right now i'm connecting via Digital Output to the receiver, that way is impossible to get real 5.1 sound. I will try with HDMI, i don't found any RCA/jack cables in my stuff....i have only HDMI and digitals ones...LOL Any suggestion using HDMI cable to receiver?
There been years when i try to configure (in windows, soundcard, receiver, etc)...never get 5.1 from any game. Now with the kids, i play with headphones or very low sound (i play when they sleep).

Right now i'm connecting via Digital Output to the receiver, that way is impossible to get real 5.1 sound.
I will try with HDMI, i don't found any RCA/jack cables in my stuff....i have only HDMI and digitals ones...LOL
Any suggestion using HDMI cable to receiver?

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#41
Posted 05/06/2016 08:03 PM   
[quote="DHR"]Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i never get individual 6 channel signal in games.[/quote] There no easy answer. As TsaebehT said, it depends on the games source. A lot of old games and even some of the new games use old audio APIs. The Miles Sound System is in a lot of games, Rad Game Tools (developers of Bink Video) claim that it is in over 5,900 games. MSS was formerly known as the Audio Interface Library (AIL), Rad Game Tools bought Miles Design in 1995. list of games using MSS http://www.radgametools.com/mssgames.htm http://www.radgametools.com/miles.htm OpenAL (Open Audio Library) was/is open sourced but some of it became proprietary property of Creative Technology after being branched. A3D (Aureal 3-Dimensional) replaced by Environmental Audio Extensions (EAX) developed by Creative Technology with the last revision being 5.0 list of games with EAX support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_EAX_support EAX 5.0 is supported by E-mu 20K-based products such as the Sound Blaster X-Fi (except the Xtreme Audio cards). 128 simultaneous voices processable in hardware and up to 4 effects on each EAX Voice (processing of microphone input signal) EAX PurePath (EAX Sound effects can originate from one speaker only) Environment FlexiFX (four available effects slots per channel) EAX MacroFX (realistic positional effects at close range) Environment Occlusion (sound from adjacent environments can pass through walls) EAX has since been depreciated and is now knowns as OpenAL's EFX. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AllenDanklefsen/20101112/88453/OpenALs_EFX.php Then there's DirectSound3D which was depreciated and became DirectX Audio There's also Creative ALchemy it intercepts calls to DirectSound3D and translates them into OpenAL calls to be processed by supported hardware such as Sound Blaster X-Fi and Sound Blaster Audigy Realtek has 3D SoundBack and Xear3D EX and others http://www.cmedia.com.tw/EN/Technology/ClassifySerno-77.html Then there's Blue Ripple Sound/Raptue3D http://www.blueripplesound.com/ Games that are compatible with Rapture3D http://www.blueripplesound.com/compatible-games If you ever downloaded and installed Dirt 3, you might have been surprised by this suddenly showing up on your system. http://www.blueripplesound.com/story/dirt3 AMD has some proprietary stuff, there are others as well.... So the thing is, most of the old games never used Dolby or DTS. Nor do many new games. A lot of the surround is emulated/virtual
DHR said:Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i never get individual 6 channel signal in games.


There no easy answer.

As TsaebehT said, it depends on the games source. A lot of old games and even some of the new games use old audio APIs.

The Miles Sound System is in a lot of games, Rad Game Tools (developers of Bink Video) claim that it is in over 5,900 games. MSS was formerly known as the Audio Interface Library (AIL), Rad Game Tools bought Miles Design in 1995.

list of games using MSS http://www.radgametools.com/mssgames.htm


http://www.radgametools.com/miles.htm


OpenAL (Open Audio Library) was/is open sourced but some of it became proprietary property of Creative Technology after being branched.

A3D (Aureal 3-Dimensional) replaced by Environmental Audio Extensions (EAX) developed by Creative Technology with the last revision being 5.0

list of games with EAX support

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_EAX_support



EAX 5.0 is supported by E-mu 20K-based products such as the Sound Blaster X-Fi (except the Xtreme Audio cards).
128 simultaneous voices processable in hardware and up to 4 effects on each
EAX Voice (processing of microphone input signal)
EAX PurePath (EAX Sound effects can originate from one speaker only)
Environment FlexiFX (four available effects slots per channel)
EAX MacroFX (realistic positional effects at close range)
Environment Occlusion (sound from adjacent environments can pass through walls)


EAX has since been depreciated and is now knowns as OpenAL's EFX.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AllenDanklefsen/20101112/88453/OpenALs_EFX.php


Then there's DirectSound3D which was depreciated and became DirectX Audio

There's also Creative ALchemy it intercepts calls to DirectSound3D and translates them into OpenAL calls to be processed by supported hardware such as Sound Blaster X-Fi and Sound Blaster Audigy

Realtek has 3D SoundBack and Xear3D EX and others


http://www.cmedia.com.tw/EN/Technology/ClassifySerno-77.html


Then there's Blue Ripple Sound/Raptue3D

http://www.blueripplesound.com/


Games that are compatible with Rapture3D

http://www.blueripplesound.com/compatible-games


If you ever downloaded and installed Dirt 3, you might have been surprised by this suddenly showing up on your system. http://www.blueripplesound.com/story/dirt3


AMD has some proprietary stuff, there are others as well....

So the thing is, most of the old games never used Dolby or DTS. Nor do many new games. A lot of the surround is emulated/virtual

#42
Posted 05/06/2016 08:09 PM   
It is possible to have 5.1 over toss-link or coaxial digital but you need a soundcard capable of DDL or DTS direct. Even if you have one not all games are compatible (Black OPS, Farcry 4...) Over HDMI is simple. Just connect setup 5.1 and it works. I personally have one special HDMI cable only for sound. Image goes separately, so I have 3 HDMI cable and one DVi going from my GPU to the devices :P With 4 devices connected to GPU I need to use Monitor profile switcher to have Pjector+sound, Tv+Sound, Monitor+Projector+ sound... and so on but it works perfectly. PS: Battlefiled 1 reveal is on. OMG.. World war 1.. if I were a women I would be so wet now.
It is possible to have 5.1 over toss-link or coaxial digital but you need a soundcard capable of DDL or DTS direct. Even if you have one not all games are compatible (Black OPS, Farcry 4...)

Over HDMI is simple. Just connect setup 5.1 and it works.
I personally have one special HDMI cable only for sound. Image goes separately, so I have 3 HDMI cable and one DVi going from my GPU to the devices :P
With 4 devices connected to GPU I need to use Monitor profile switcher to have Pjector+sound, Tv+Sound, Monitor+Projector+ sound... and so on but it works perfectly.

PS: Battlefiled 1 reveal is on. OMG.. World war 1.. if I were a women I would be so wet now.

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#43
Posted 05/06/2016 08:14 PM   
I know the above wall of text is a mess, but if you really dig it's all pretty complicated about what works with what and when and how.
I know the above wall of text is a mess, but if you really dig it's all pretty complicated about what works with what and when and how.

#44
Posted 05/06/2016 08:15 PM   
[quote="DHR"]There been years when i try to configure (in windows, soundcard, receiver, etc)...never get 5.1 from any game. Now with the kids, i play with headphones or very low sound (i play when they sleep). Right now i'm connecting via Digital Output to the receiver, that way is impossible to get real 5.1 sound. I will try with HDMI, i don't found any RCA/jack cables in my stuff....i have only HDMI and digitals ones...LOL Any suggestion using HDMI cable to receiver?[/quote]I remember having a hell of a time getting anything other than Stereo with the toslink/spdif connections coming from my motherboard and I'm not sure if I ever got it resolved, at one point I just had 2 DVI>HDMI cables... 1 to the RCVR and the other to the TV for both 3D Vision and 5.1 to work but merging their EDIDs fixed the need for 2 cables. As far as I know you need a digital source/cable to get anything above Pro-Logic, something like spdif, toslink or HDMI... there's no way to get discrete channels with 3.5mm/RCA outputs unless you're running them to something that accepts multiple 3.5mm/RCA inputs for each channel, like 5.1 PC Speakers or discrete amps.
DHR said:There been years when i try to configure (in windows, soundcard, receiver, etc)...never get 5.1 from any game. Now with the kids, i play with headphones or very low sound (i play when they sleep).

Right now i'm connecting via Digital Output to the receiver, that way is impossible to get real 5.1 sound.
I will try with HDMI, i don't found any RCA/jack cables in my stuff....i have only HDMI and digitals ones...LOL
Any suggestion using HDMI cable to receiver?
I remember having a hell of a time getting anything other than Stereo with the toslink/spdif connections coming from my motherboard and I'm not sure if I ever got it resolved, at one point I just had 2 DVI>HDMI cables... 1 to the RCVR and the other to the TV for both 3D Vision and 5.1 to work but merging their EDIDs fixed the need for 2 cables.

As far as I know you need a digital source/cable to get anything above Pro-Logic, something like spdif, toslink or HDMI... there's no way to get discrete channels with 3.5mm/RCA outputs unless you're running them to something that accepts multiple 3.5mm/RCA inputs for each channel, like 5.1 PC Speakers or discrete amps.
#45
Posted 05/06/2016 08:26 PM   
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