Explain why 3DTV Play diff 3D Vision for res and refresh
2 / 2
[quote name='mocca' date='30 September 2011 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1317387935' post='1301126']
Hi,
Tridef and iz3d do'nt share the same limitations of 3dtvplay at all, they can play 1080p/60hz
[/quote]
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
[quote name='mocca' date='30 September 2011 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1317387935' post='1301126']
Hi,
Tridef and iz3d do'nt share the same limitations of 3dtvplay at all, they can play 1080p/60hz
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
[quote name='tritosine2k' timestamp='1317385978' date='30 September 2011 - 01:32 PM']
[quote]Most new TVs run natively at 200 Hz or 400 Hz (1080p) [/quote]
not sure what you smoke
:-D
Just FYI, these TV-s are 0th generation 3d, dark as hell, plus helluva amount of marketing crap, you even fall victim of 200 hz and 3d. Its a cash grab. And you can go and ask crapty toshiba why you can't give 100hz fullHD thru VGA port. Maybe your congolomerate buddies explain it to you.[/quote]You really should learn to behave and to check technical specifications before you say or write anything! First of all the most recent 3D capable TV generation runs a native 400 Hz (marketing says 800 Hz but the real 400 Hz is interpolated by internal chips to 800 Hz). Secondly i don't have to ask Toshiba why i can't run 100 Hz at the VGA port, i already know why. However, i don't use that crappy VGA port but a HDMI port - yes, instead of you i have the money to get a FullHD TV with multiple HDMi inputs and a graphics card with HDMI output.
[quote name='Jude' date='30 September 2011 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1317389716' post='1301145']
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
[/quote]HDMI limitations? It is true that the official standard for 3D gaming is 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz but the HDMI 1.4a standard accepts much more and the Display doesn't care about the type of source (Computer 2D, Game 2D, Game 3D, Video 2D, Video 3D). If the source is in the specification and the TV support that specification it will show it on the screen.
HDMI.org (official website) says for example:
[QUOTE]Which 3D video formats are contained in HDMI 1.4?
The HDMI 1.4 specification includes information on a wide range of 3D display formats at up to 1080p resolution, including:
field alternative
frame alternative
line alternative
side-by-side half
side-by-side full
L + depth
L + depth + graphics + graphics depth[/QUOTE]
Check the attached PDF file. Its the official HDMI specification. Scroll down to site 11 and you see a list of all resolutions and refresh rates supported by HDMI. BIG SURPRISE, it lists primary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing) and secondary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080p @ 50/59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing), 1920x1080i @ 100/119.88/120Hz (Frame-Packing), etc.
[quote name='tritosine2k' timestamp='1317385978' date='30 September 2011 - 01:32 PM']
Most new TVs run natively at 200 Hz or 400 Hz (1080p)
not sure what you smoke
:-D
Just FYI, these TV-s are 0th generation 3d, dark as hell, plus helluva amount of marketing crap, you even fall victim of 200 hz and 3d. Its a cash grab. And you can go and ask crapty toshiba why you can't give 100hz fullHD thru VGA port. Maybe your congolomerate buddies explain it to you.You really should learn to behave and to check technical specifications before you say or write anything! First of all the most recent 3D capable TV generation runs a native 400 Hz (marketing says 800 Hz but the real 400 Hz is interpolated by internal chips to 800 Hz). Secondly i don't have to ask Toshiba why i can't run 100 Hz at the VGA port, i already know why. However, i don't use that crappy VGA port but a HDMI port - yes, instead of you i have the money to get a FullHD TV with multiple HDMi inputs and a graphics card with HDMI output.
[quote name='Jude' date='30 September 2011 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1317389716' post='1301145']
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
HDMI limitations? It is true that the official standard for 3D gaming is 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz but the HDMI 1.4a standard accepts much more and the Display doesn't care about the type of source (Computer 2D, Game 2D, Game 3D, Video 2D, Video 3D). If the source is in the specification and the TV support that specification it will show it on the screen.
HDMI.org (official website) says for example:
[QUOTE]Which 3D video formats are contained in HDMI 1.4?
The HDMI 1.4 specification includes information on a wide range of 3D display formats at up to 1080p resolution, including:
field alternative
frame alternative
line alternative
side-by-side half
side-by-side full
L + depth
L + depth + graphics + graphics depth[/QUOTE]
Check the attached PDF file. Its the official HDMI specification. Scroll down to site 11 and you see a list of all resolutions and refresh rates supported by HDMI. BIG SURPRISE, it lists primary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing) and secondary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080p @ 50/59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing), 1920x1080i @ 100/119.88/120Hz (Frame-Packing), etc.
HDMI 1.4a doesn't support 1080p with more than 60 frames per seconds, and that's only in 2D! As a matter of fact, HDMI 1.4a specifies 3D only for 1080 in 24p or 720p in 60p.
There is just no way to use frame packaging 3D (which is what HDMI 1.4a specifies) with more than 1080p in 24 Hz.
Remember: To use 1080p on a PC you need to use a Duallink DVI capable monitor and cable. That doubles the bandwidth of a single DVI connection and is also double the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4a (which is technically the same as single link DVI).
nVidia could, however, chose to offer 1080p in 60Hz using side-by-side. That would half the resolution, but it would work.
HDMI 1.4a doesn't support 1080p with more than 60 frames per seconds, and that's only in 2D! As a matter of fact, HDMI 1.4a specifies 3D only for 1080 in 24p or 720p in 60p.
There is just no way to use frame packaging 3D (which is what HDMI 1.4a specifies) with more than 1080p in 24 Hz.
Remember: To use 1080p on a PC you need to use a Duallink DVI capable monitor and cable. That doubles the bandwidth of a single DVI connection and is also double the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4a (which is technically the same as single link DVI).
nVidia could, however, chose to offer 1080p in 60Hz using side-by-side. That would half the resolution, but it would work.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='17 September 2011 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1316294592' post='1294405']
You guys are completely missing the point of the OP. When you play Jame's Cameron Avatar the game, in the "Display Options" you are given the choice of selecting from "EIGHT" different 3D options. Full Checkerboard, Sensio, RealD, Line Interlaced, Side by Side, Nvidia 3D Vision, iZ3D and Dual Head. The "Display's 3D capabilities" along with the "Game Engine" are used to render the images, this is with the "Enable stereographic 3D" >DISABLED<. On a LG passive TV, I was able to play in all the formats with the exception of iZ3D and Dual Head. Nvidia 3DVision and 3DTV Play were limited in either resolution (720p 60) or fps (1080P 24) The thing is, with "3D disabled" in the Nvidia control panel I could play at "1080P 60" with all my settings at Ultra High including Shadows, Anti Aliasing, Bloom and HDR enabled in DX 10 on a 480 GTX. I also had depth set to max and experienced no tearing, judders or lag (other than normal HDTV lag). So it's not as much about Nvidia enabling our needed 3D solution as much as it is for 3D game developers to incorporate in-game 3D settings like Ubisoft did with Avatar the game. The best thing with this feature is allowing user control to get the best functioning image in relation to their GPU performance, whether they have to back the settings down from ultra high or disble things like shadows. Now, I'm unsure of how different game engines may or not be able drive/render/implement such a feature, I do know that the Jade engine is a proprietary of Ubisoft and is cross-platform. Other things may come into play as well such as licensing from RealD or Sensio to add them into the options. All I know is that 1080P 24 with the user profile locked doesn't really cut it. It would be nice to see Nvidia implement an "Advanced User" option in the control panel enabling access to the game profile for fine tuning adjustments. Especially since subsequent game patches from the developer may enable better settings. Here's a Ubisoft FAQ for Avatar 3D http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6391049957/m/8641083708
[/quote]
I do not want 1080P@24 3DTV Play nor do I want to use TriDef or iZ3D to obtain the same results that I can with "James Cameron's Avatar: The Game" It really seems that it's the game developers that are at fault, if they'd offer the same in-game support, that was offered in Avatar: The Game, there would be no need for a middleware solution. Only on older games would middleware be needed, if in-game support was implemented on all new releases.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='17 September 2011 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1316294592' post='1294405']
You guys are completely missing the point of the OP. When you play Jame's Cameron Avatar the game, in the "Display Options" you are given the choice of selecting from "EIGHT" different 3D options. Full Checkerboard, Sensio, RealD, Line Interlaced, Side by Side, Nvidia 3D Vision, iZ3D and Dual Head. The "Display's 3D capabilities" along with the "Game Engine" are used to render the images, this is with the "Enable stereographic 3D" >DISABLED<. On a LG passive TV, I was able to play in all the formats with the exception of iZ3D and Dual Head. Nvidia 3DVision and 3DTV Play were limited in either resolution (720p 60) or fps (1080P 24) The thing is, with "3D disabled" in the Nvidia control panel I could play at "1080P 60" with all my settings at Ultra High including Shadows, Anti Aliasing, Bloom and HDR enabled in DX 10 on a 480 GTX. I also had depth set to max and experienced no tearing, judders or lag (other than normal HDTV lag). So it's not as much about Nvidia enabling our needed 3D solution as much as it is for 3D game developers to incorporate in-game 3D settings like Ubisoft did with Avatar the game. The best thing with this feature is allowing user control to get the best functioning image in relation to their GPU performance, whether they have to back the settings down from ultra high or disble things like shadows. Now, I'm unsure of how different game engines may or not be able drive/render/implement such a feature, I do know that the Jade engine is a proprietary of Ubisoft and is cross-platform. Other things may come into play as well such as licensing from RealD or Sensio to add them into the options. All I know is that 1080P 24 with the user profile locked doesn't really cut it. It would be nice to see Nvidia implement an "Advanced User" option in the control panel enabling access to the game profile for fine tuning adjustments. Especially since subsequent game patches from the developer may enable better settings. Here's a Ubisoft FAQ for Avatar 3D http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6391049957/m/8641083708
I do not want 1080P@24 3DTV Play nor do I want to use TriDef or iZ3D to obtain the same results that I can with "James Cameron's Avatar: The Game" It really seems that it's the game developers that are at fault, if they'd offer the same in-game support, that was offered in Avatar: The Game, there would be no need for a middleware solution. Only on older games would middleware be needed, if in-game support was implemented on all new releases.
Hi,
Tridef and iz3d do'nt share the same limitations of 3dtvplay at all, they can play 1080p/60hz
[/quote]
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
Hi,
Tridef and iz3d do'nt share the same limitations of 3dtvplay at all, they can play 1080p/60hz
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
[quote]Most new TVs run natively at 200 Hz or 400 Hz (1080p) [/quote]
not sure what you smoke
:-D
Just FYI, these TV-s are 0th generation 3d, dark as hell, plus helluva amount of marketing crap, you even fall victim of 200 hz and 3d. Its a cash grab. And you can go and ask crapty toshiba why you can't give 100hz fullHD thru VGA port. Maybe your congolomerate buddies explain it to you.[/quote]You really should learn to behave and to check technical specifications before you say or write anything! First of all the most recent 3D capable TV generation runs a native 400 Hz (marketing says 800 Hz but the real 400 Hz is interpolated by internal chips to 800 Hz). Secondly i don't have to ask Toshiba why i can't run 100 Hz at the VGA port, i already know why. However, i don't use that crappy VGA port but a HDMI port - yes, instead of you i have the money to get a FullHD TV with multiple HDMi inputs and a graphics card with HDMI output.
[quote name='Jude' date='30 September 2011 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1317389716' post='1301145']
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
[/quote]HDMI limitations? It is true that the official standard for 3D gaming is 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz but the HDMI 1.4a standard accepts much more and the Display doesn't care about the type of source (Computer 2D, Game 2D, Game 3D, Video 2D, Video 3D). If the source is in the specification and the TV support that specification it will show it on the screen.
HDMI.org (official website) says for example:
[QUOTE]Which 3D video formats are contained in HDMI 1.4?
The HDMI 1.4 specification includes information on a wide range of 3D display formats at up to 1080p resolution, including:
field alternative
frame alternative
line alternative
side-by-side half
side-by-side full
L + depth
L + depth + graphics + graphics depth[/QUOTE]
Check the attached PDF file. Its the official HDMI specification. Scroll down to site 11 and you see a list of all resolutions and refresh rates supported by HDMI. BIG SURPRISE, it lists primary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing) and secondary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080p @ 50/59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing), 1920x1080i @ 100/119.88/120Hz (Frame-Packing), etc.
not sure what you smoke
:-D
Just FYI, these TV-s are 0th generation 3d, dark as hell, plus helluva amount of marketing crap, you even fall victim of 200 hz and 3d. Its a cash grab. And you can go and ask crapty toshiba why you can't give 100hz fullHD thru VGA port. Maybe your congolomerate buddies explain it to you.You really should learn to behave and to check technical specifications before you say or write anything! First of all the most recent 3D capable TV generation runs a native 400 Hz (marketing says 800 Hz but the real 400 Hz is interpolated by internal chips to 800 Hz). Secondly i don't have to ask Toshiba why i can't run 100 Hz at the VGA port, i already know why. However, i don't use that crappy VGA port but a HDMI port - yes, instead of you i have the money to get a FullHD TV with multiple HDMi inputs and a graphics card with HDMI output.
[quote name='Jude' date='30 September 2011 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1317389716' post='1301145']
In fact yes they do, we are talking about hdmi limitations playing games at full resolution, neither tridef/iz3d can play games at 1080p/60hz with hdmi.
They can play games lowering the resolution, aka 1080p/60hz side by side for example, 3dtvplay cant do that and this is a nividia decision that have nothing to do with hdmi specs. or limitations.
HDMI limitations? It is true that the official standard for 3D gaming is 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz but the HDMI 1.4a standard accepts much more and the Display doesn't care about the type of source (Computer 2D, Game 2D, Game 3D, Video 2D, Video 3D). If the source is in the specification and the TV support that specification it will show it on the screen.
HDMI.org (official website) says for example:
[QUOTE]Which 3D video formats are contained in HDMI 1.4?
The HDMI 1.4 specification includes information on a wide range of 3D display formats at up to 1080p resolution, including:
field alternative
frame alternative
line alternative
side-by-side half
side-by-side full
L + depth
L + depth + graphics + graphics depth[/QUOTE]
Check the attached PDF file. Its the official HDMI specification. Scroll down to site 11 and you see a list of all resolutions and refresh rates supported by HDMI. BIG SURPRISE, it lists primary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing) and secondary 3D video format timings like 1920x1080p @ 50/59.94/60Hz (Frame-Packing), 1920x1080i @ 100/119.88/120Hz (Frame-Packing), etc.
There is just no way to use frame packaging 3D (which is what HDMI 1.4a specifies) with more than 1080p in 24 Hz.
Remember: To use 1080p on a PC you need to use a Duallink DVI capable monitor and cable. That doubles the bandwidth of a single DVI connection and is also double the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4a (which is technically the same as single link DVI).
nVidia could, however, chose to offer 1080p in 60Hz using side-by-side. That would half the resolution, but it would work.
There is just no way to use frame packaging 3D (which is what HDMI 1.4a specifies) with more than 1080p in 24 Hz.
Remember: To use 1080p on a PC you need to use a Duallink DVI capable monitor and cable. That doubles the bandwidth of a single DVI connection and is also double the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4a (which is technically the same as single link DVI).
nVidia could, however, chose to offer 1080p in 60Hz using side-by-side. That would half the resolution, but it would work.
You guys are completely missing the point of the OP. When you play Jame's Cameron Avatar the game, in the "Display Options" you are given the choice of selecting from "EIGHT" different 3D options. Full Checkerboard, Sensio, RealD, Line Interlaced, Side by Side, Nvidia 3D Vision, iZ3D and Dual Head. The "Display's 3D capabilities" along with the "Game Engine" are used to render the images, this is with the "Enable stereographic 3D" >DISABLED<. On a LG passive TV, I was able to play in all the formats with the exception of iZ3D and Dual Head. Nvidia 3DVision and 3DTV Play were limited in either resolution (720p 60) or fps (1080P 24) The thing is, with "3D disabled" in the Nvidia control panel I could play at "1080P 60" with all my settings at Ultra High including Shadows, Anti Aliasing, Bloom and HDR enabled in DX 10 on a 480 GTX. I also had depth set to max and experienced no tearing, judders or lag (other than normal HDTV lag). So it's not as much about Nvidia enabling our needed 3D solution as much as it is for 3D game developers to incorporate in-game 3D settings like Ubisoft did with Avatar the game. The best thing with this feature is allowing user control to get the best functioning image in relation to their GPU performance, whether they have to back the settings down from ultra high or disble things like shadows. Now, I'm unsure of how different game engines may or not be able drive/render/implement such a feature, I do know that the Jade engine is a proprietary of Ubisoft and is cross-platform. Other things may come into play as well such as licensing from RealD or Sensio to add them into the options. All I know is that 1080P 24 with the user profile locked doesn't really cut it. It would be nice to see Nvidia implement an "Advanced User" option in the control panel enabling access to the game profile for fine tuning adjustments. Especially since subsequent game patches from the developer may enable better settings. Here's a Ubisoft FAQ for Avatar 3D http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6391049957/m/8641083708
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I do not want 1080P@24 3DTV Play nor do I want to use TriDef or iZ3D to obtain the same results that I can with "James Cameron's Avatar: The Game" It really seems that it's the game developers that are at fault, if they'd offer the same in-game support, that was offered in Avatar: The Game, there would be no need for a middleware solution. Only on older games would middleware be needed, if in-game support was implemented on all new releases.
You guys are completely missing the point of the OP. When you play Jame's Cameron Avatar the game, in the "Display Options" you are given the choice of selecting from "EIGHT" different 3D options. Full Checkerboard, Sensio, RealD, Line Interlaced, Side by Side, Nvidia 3D Vision, iZ3D and Dual Head. The "Display's 3D capabilities" along with the "Game Engine" are used to render the images, this is with the "Enable stereographic 3D" >DISABLED<. On a LG passive TV, I was able to play in all the formats with the exception of iZ3D and Dual Head. Nvidia 3DVision and 3DTV Play were limited in either resolution (720p 60) or fps (1080P 24) The thing is, with "3D disabled" in the Nvidia control panel I could play at "1080P 60" with all my settings at Ultra High including Shadows, Anti Aliasing, Bloom and HDR enabled in DX 10 on a 480 GTX. I also had depth set to max and experienced no tearing, judders or lag (other than normal HDTV lag). So it's not as much about Nvidia enabling our needed 3D solution as much as it is for 3D game developers to incorporate in-game 3D settings like Ubisoft did with Avatar the game. The best thing with this feature is allowing user control to get the best functioning image in relation to their GPU performance, whether they have to back the settings down from ultra high or disble things like shadows. Now, I'm unsure of how different game engines may or not be able drive/render/implement such a feature, I do know that the Jade engine is a proprietary of Ubisoft and is cross-platform. Other things may come into play as well such as licensing from RealD or Sensio to add them into the options. All I know is that 1080P 24 with the user profile locked doesn't really cut it. It would be nice to see Nvidia implement an "Advanced User" option in the control panel enabling access to the game profile for fine tuning adjustments. Especially since subsequent game patches from the developer may enable better settings. Here's a Ubisoft FAQ for Avatar 3D http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6391049957/m/8641083708
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I do not want 1080P@24 3DTV Play nor do I want to use TriDef or iZ3D to obtain the same results that I can with "James Cameron's Avatar: The Game" It really seems that it's the game developers that are at fault, if they'd offer the same in-game support, that was offered in Avatar: The Game, there would be no need for a middleware solution. Only on older games would middleware be needed, if in-game support was implemented on all new releases.