Some 3D fixes significantly lower FPS!
Hello! First off, I am not complaining! HUGE thanks to everybody who makes fixes! I tried (briefly) myself and my hat is off you you guys! I've noticed something odd with Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 recently as I've installed the fixes from the Helixmod blog and with the latest versions I am getting a significant FPS loss copmapred to earlier versions. In Witcher 3 with the 1.10 release I get 57-60 FPS, but if I update to 1.21 it drops to 48-51! In Fallout 4 with the alpha release I get solid 60 fps but if I use the v2 fix it drops to 54... I'm wondering if this is just the consequence of more shaders being fixed with the newer releases or if there's something odd happening in my system. Any body else noticed this?
Hello!

First off, I am not complaining! HUGE thanks to everybody who makes fixes! I tried (briefly) myself and my hat is off you you guys!

I've noticed something odd with Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 recently as I've installed the fixes from the Helixmod blog and with the latest versions I am getting a significant FPS loss copmapred to earlier versions.

In Witcher 3 with the 1.10 release I get 57-60 FPS, but if I update to 1.21 it drops to 48-51!

In Fallout 4 with the alpha release I get solid 60 fps but if I use the v2 fix it drops to 54...

I'm wondering if this is just the consequence of more shaders being fixed with the newer releases or if there's something odd happening in my system.

Any body else noticed this?

#1
Posted 06/27/2016 01:16 PM   
It could be related to the core bug that's in the drivers with some games at the moment. Although I am not sure it applies to anything other than GTAV where it's been proven. But apparently only 4 cores are being used and that would manifest in worse fps in games that utilize more than 3 cores. Also each shader that's fixed adds instructions so it could reduce performance somewhat if there is a lot of work going on yes. Id be interested in what kind of specs you are running.
It could be related to the core bug that's in the drivers with some games at the moment. Although I am not sure it applies to anything other than GTAV where it's been proven. But apparently only 4 cores are being used and that would manifest in worse fps in games that utilize more than 3 cores.

Also each shader that's fixed adds instructions so it could reduce performance somewhat if there is a lot of work going on yes.

Id be interested in what kind of specs you are running.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#2
Posted 06/27/2016 01:37 PM   
I've just upgraded so I'm pretty good at the mo! i6700k @4.6ghz Gigabyte z170 Gaming 7 32gb DDR4 2400 GTX 1080 Don't think it's the core issue (which I had on GTA V) as I'm getting 99% gpu usage. It's probably the extra instructions... Just curious if it's the same with everyone else!
I've just upgraded so I'm pretty good at the mo!

i6700k @4.6ghz
Gigabyte z170 Gaming 7
32gb DDR4 2400
GTX 1080

Don't think it's the core issue (which I had on GTA V) as I'm getting 99% gpu usage. It's probably the extra instructions... Just curious if it's the same with everyone else!

#3
Posted 06/27/2016 01:42 PM   
The games got patched seriously. You can't seriously blame the FIXES across 2 different game versions: [quote] In Witcher 3 with the 1.10 release I get 57-60 FPS, but if I update to 1.21 it drops to 48-51! [/quote] How about you do a 2D compare between 1.10 vs 1.22 version and see where your FPS loss comes from;) To answer your question: No, I haven't noticed any FPS loss with any of the 3D fixes. What you get in 2D: - Remove 10% from the raw 2D FPS -> 3D Vision overhead - Divide by 2 and you get the approx. FPS in 3D. I have little issue running Witcher 3 on 1.22 in 3D Surround (5760x1080) at 30-40 FPS in 3D on Ultra + Hairworks. (For witcher 3 you should disabled Depth of Field and AA as is a MASSIVE FPS eater especially in 3D. It can basically murder your FPS in 3D).
The games got patched seriously.

You can't seriously blame the FIXES across 2 different game versions:

In Witcher 3 with the 1.10 release I get 57-60 FPS, but if I update to 1.21 it drops to 48-51!

How about you do a 2D compare between 1.10 vs 1.22 version and see where your FPS loss comes from;)

To answer your question: No, I haven't noticed any FPS loss with any of the 3D fixes. What you get in 2D:
- Remove 10% from the raw 2D FPS -> 3D Vision overhead
- Divide by 2 and you get the approx. FPS in 3D.

I have little issue running Witcher 3 on 1.22 in 3D Surround (5760x1080) at 30-40 FPS in 3D on Ultra + Hairworks. (For witcher 3 you should disabled Depth of Field and AA as is a MASSIVE FPS eater especially in 3D. It can basically murder your FPS in 3D).

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#4
Posted 06/27/2016 03:02 PM   
Hi Helifax, The game version of the Witcher is the same, it's the different versions of the fix that are giving me a loss of FPS. I've done a 2d test in the Witcher as well, disabled vsync and I get: 2d no fix: 121 2d 1.10 fix: 118 2d 1.21 fix: 104 It's probably my computer if you're not getting a fps loss yourself, just trying to work it out!
Hi Helifax,

The game version of the Witcher is the same, it's the different versions of the fix that are giving me a loss of FPS.

I've done a 2d test in the Witcher as well, disabled vsync and I get:


2d no fix: 121
2d 1.10 fix: 118
2d 1.21 fix: 104

It's probably my computer if you're not getting a fps loss yourself, just trying to work it out!

#5
Posted 06/27/2016 04:16 PM   
You do realise that your test doesn't shows valid data right? First of all, the 1.10 FIX doesn't WORK on v.1.22 version of the game as the FIXED shaders are not loaded! You get the same result from just running the wrapper without the ShaderFixes folder. I recommend doing the following for TRUE results: - Get v.1.21 fix. 1) Run it as it is: note the FPS (2D/3D) 2) Delete the "ShaderFixes" folder. Run the game and note the FPS (2D/3D) 3) Get the v1.10 fix and either delete or not the "ShaderFixes" folder. Run the game and note the FPS (2D/3D). This will give you VALID results. The only thing that changed between v.1.21 and v.1.10 are the shaders and enabled some part of the wrapper for the dynamic crosshair. That version of 3DMigoto is pretty old now and I haven't updated to the last as I couldn't make the crosshair be dynamic using the same code. There were reports of a memory leak using that wrapper version. Personally I haven't encountered it after the game running straight more than 10 hours, but it might be there. Let me know your results on this test:) EDIT: The latest version of 3DMigoto requires the use of "stereo2mono" instruction, but on my surround setup it murders the FPS from 40 FPS in 3D down to 10 FPS when used, so I have kept the older version of the wrapper in order to make the dynamic crosshair work.
You do realise that your test doesn't shows valid data right?

First of all, the 1.10 FIX doesn't WORK on v.1.22 version of the game as the FIXED shaders are not loaded!
You get the same result from just running the wrapper without the ShaderFixes folder.

I recommend doing the following for TRUE results:

- Get v.1.21 fix.
1) Run it as it is: note the FPS (2D/3D)
2) Delete the "ShaderFixes" folder. Run the game and note the FPS (2D/3D)
3) Get the v1.10 fix and either delete or not the "ShaderFixes" folder. Run the game and note the FPS (2D/3D).

This will give you VALID results.


The only thing that changed between v.1.21 and v.1.10 are the shaders and enabled some part of the wrapper for the dynamic crosshair. That version of 3DMigoto is pretty old now and I haven't updated to the last as I couldn't make the crosshair be dynamic using the same code. There were reports of a memory leak using that wrapper version. Personally I haven't encountered it after the game running straight more than 10 hours, but it might be there.

Let me know your results on this test:)

EDIT: The latest version of 3DMigoto requires the use of "stereo2mono" instruction, but on my surround setup it murders the FPS from 40 FPS in 3D down to 10 FPS when used, so I have kept the older version of the wrapper in order to make the dynamic crosshair work.

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#6
Posted 06/27/2016 04:31 PM   
Here are my (hopefully) valid results: Setting as lowest and resolution 2560x1440 taken from current save without moving camera 1.21 Fix: 2d - 97 3d - 49 1.21 No Shaderfixes: 2d - 106 3d - 53 1.10 Fix: 2d - 104 3d - 51 1.10 No Shaderfixes 2d - 106 3d - 53 So the 1.21 shaderfixes are definitely lowering my FPS, but is this a normal amount? And is the reason the 1.10 fix seems to have better FPS, just because it's not actually doing much fixing? Thank you for the help, and the amazing fixes!
Here are my (hopefully) valid results:

Setting as lowest and resolution 2560x1440 taken from current save without moving camera

1.21 Fix: 2d - 97 3d - 49
1.21 No Shaderfixes: 2d - 106 3d - 53

1.10 Fix: 2d - 104 3d - 51
1.10 No Shaderfixes 2d - 106 3d - 53

So the 1.21 shaderfixes are definitely lowering my FPS, but is this a normal amount?

And is the reason the 1.10 fix seems to have better FPS, just because it's not actually doing much fixing?

Thank you for the help, and the amazing fixes!

#7
Posted 06/27/2016 05:15 PM   
So we are talking about 5/10 FPS in 2D/3D difference? Well doing additional mathematical computations will add extra time requirements for them to be calculated. 5 FPS loss (when you are over 50FPS) in 3D at that BIG resolutionis on THIS game is on the ignore list to be honest. I say this is behaving extremely well. What you can try and see if it improves things is to comment these lines in the ini file [code] [ShaderOverrideCrosshair1] Hash = 46f4872381836c2b depth_input = 110 [ShaderOverrideCrosshair2] Hash = 53975f43d8014fe7 depth_input = 110 [/code] I don't think it will have a big impact but you can try it out.
So we are talking about 5/10 FPS in 2D/3D difference?
Well doing additional mathematical computations will add extra time requirements for them to be calculated.

5 FPS loss (when you are over 50FPS) in 3D at that BIG resolutionis on THIS game is on the ignore list to be honest. I say this is behaving extremely well.

What you can try and see if it improves things is to comment these lines in the ini file
[ShaderOverrideCrosshair1]
Hash = 46f4872381836c2b
depth_input = 110

[ShaderOverrideCrosshair2]
Hash = 53975f43d8014fe7
depth_input = 110

I don't think it will have a big impact but you can try it out.

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#8
Posted 06/27/2016 06:18 PM   
Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't make any difference. Not to worry though and I really didn't mean to whinge, I'm very happy with the excellent fix, just going through everything I can in my new system to squeeze every single frame I can out of it!
Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't make any difference. Not to worry though and I really didn't mean to whinge, I'm very happy with the excellent fix, just going through everything I can in my new system to squeeze every single frame I can out of it!

#9
Posted 06/27/2016 10:47 PM   
Interesting, thanks for sharing your research. You could further narrow down which shaders are causing the performance hit, like this. -Perform a clean fix install -Move the shaderfixes folder to another location, record performance -Move the shaderfixes folder back, record performance -Move half the shaders in the shaderfixes folder elsewhere, record performance -Swap the half you moved, with the half that stayed, see if performance is different If you find one half of the shaders produces a significantly higher hit than the other, then a shader/shaders in the slow half is causing the problem. If you continue halving the "slow" half, you may be able to narrow it down to an individual shader, and maybe more investigation can be done into why. If you find each half is half as slow as the full fix, than it's simply a linear slowdown in line with the number of shaders, which probably can't be helped.
Interesting, thanks for sharing your research.

You could further narrow down which shaders are causing the performance hit, like this.

-Perform a clean fix install
-Move the shaderfixes folder to another location, record performance
-Move the shaderfixes folder back, record performance
-Move half the shaders in the shaderfixes folder elsewhere, record performance
-Swap the half you moved, with the half that stayed, see if performance is different

If you find one half of the shaders produces a significantly higher hit than the other, then a shader/shaders in the slow half is causing the problem.

If you continue halving the "slow" half, you may be able to narrow it down to an individual shader, and maybe more investigation can be done into why.

If you find each half is half as slow as the full fix, than it's simply a linear slowdown in line with the number of shaders, which probably can't be helped.

#10
Posted 06/28/2016 07:54 AM   
Yes if you use the 1.10 fix on top of v.1.22 of the game is mostly like not running anything;) since the fixed shaders aren't loaded. I doubt you will find a shader alone that will lower the FPS as normally this is cumulative result. But if you do find one, please let me know and I can take a look and see if I can optimize it or see what might cause this;)
Yes if you use the 1.10 fix on top of v.1.22 of the game is mostly like not running anything;) since the fixed shaders aren't loaded.

I doubt you will find a shader alone that will lower the FPS as normally this is cumulative result.
But if you do find one, please let me know and I can take a look and see if I can optimize it or see what might cause this;)

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#11
Posted 06/28/2016 10:41 AM   
Just finished the halving the shader folder test and it's not exactly a linear slowdown, pretty much any shader fixes instantly drop the framerate! Anyway I've claimed back the fps drop by using a custom resolution suggested on the helix blog so I'm pretty happy now! Thanks for all your hard work and help everyone!
Just finished the halving the shader folder test and it's not exactly a linear slowdown, pretty much any shader fixes instantly drop the framerate!

Anyway I've claimed back the fps drop by using a custom resolution suggested on the helix blog so I'm pretty happy now!

Thanks for all your hard work and help everyone!

#12
Posted 06/28/2016 10:44 PM   
Related to Witcher 3, see if this helps out with the FPS: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/546943/3d-vision/the-witcher-3-wild-hunt/post/4915585/#4915585[/url] (Updated the fix to use the latest 3DMigoto version of the wrapper. Hopefully it will help, but I can't comment on it;) )
Related to Witcher 3, see if this helps out with the FPS:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/546943/3d-vision/the-witcher-3-wild-hunt/post/4915585/#4915585
(Updated the fix to use the latest 3DMigoto version of the wrapper. Hopefully it will help, but I can't comment on it;) )

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#13
Posted 06/28/2016 11:22 PM   
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