Microsoft removes policies from Windows 10 Pro, forces Cortana on users
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DP - not penetration, post :D
DP - not penetration, post :D

#16
Posted 07/31/2016 02:58 PM   
For sure, there is more originality in the indie space than the AAA space Pirateguybrush but I wouldn't say they are 'evolving' gameplay and definitely not applying any kind of incentive to evolve CPUs, rather some are trying to do something unique within given parameters. I think I mean more the kind of evolution that occurred pre PS2, the way hardware worked and how we interfaced with the game world was evolving much more rapidly then.
For sure, there is more originality in the indie space than the AAA space Pirateguybrush but I wouldn't say they are 'evolving' gameplay and definitely not applying any kind of incentive to evolve CPUs, rather some are trying to do something unique within given parameters.

I think I mean more the kind of evolution that occurred pre PS2, the way hardware worked and how we interfaced with the game world was evolving much more rapidly then.

#17
Posted 07/31/2016 02:58 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]I'm in the same boat as you - Holding off Win10 as long as I can till there are performance reasons to upgrade. Likely, ~2 years from now. [/quote] Completely agree. I can't see DX12 making any impact whatsoever for at least two years, maybe longer. That's why it bugs me that so many people fell for the Microsoft bait. The reason it bugs me, is because it makes more work for ALL the ShaderHackers, with absolutely nothing to show for it. Good example right this second- Just Cause 3. DHR fixed it again, runs fine on Win7. Doesn't launch on Win10. So someone has to spend time to dick around with it when Win10 brought zero to the table. I simply do not understand all the love and attention for the OS versions, for me the OS is simply a tool to launch an app, not an end in itself. I'm less sure that games will take advantage of multiple cores, but maybe. Unity 5 finally has multi-threading, whereas Unity 4 didn't support it. Until big engines like Unity and Unreal fully support it, it won't happen (GTA and others notwithstanding). The other problem is that game design doesn't always lend itself to anything except single threading. If you have a big loop that runs and animates, breaking that into cores tends to not work well, and leads to non-deterministic behavior. It's really hard to factor out big hunks that can benefit. We've had 10 years of the clear future being multiple cores, and not much has moved. I think the programming problems are super super hard, and not likely to be resolved soon. Another possible future is that VR actually succeeds and takes off. There is no question that the biggest innovation on gaming is presently happening in VR. Flat-gaming has clearly stalled. They can't even think up new twists on the same old formulas, and are reverting to rereleasing the same games with HD texture packs.
RAGEdemon said:I'm in the same boat as you - Holding off Win10 as long as I can till there are performance reasons to upgrade. Likely, ~2 years from now.

Completely agree. I can't see DX12 making any impact whatsoever for at least two years, maybe longer.

That's why it bugs me that so many people fell for the Microsoft bait. The reason it bugs me, is because it makes more work for ALL the ShaderHackers, with absolutely nothing to show for it. Good example right this second- Just Cause 3. DHR fixed it again, runs fine on Win7. Doesn't launch on Win10. So someone has to spend time to dick around with it when Win10 brought zero to the table. I simply do not understand all the love and attention for the OS versions, for me the OS is simply a tool to launch an app, not an end in itself.


I'm less sure that games will take advantage of multiple cores, but maybe. Unity 5 finally has multi-threading, whereas Unity 4 didn't support it. Until big engines like Unity and Unreal fully support it, it won't happen (GTA and others notwithstanding).

The other problem is that game design doesn't always lend itself to anything except single threading. If you have a big loop that runs and animates, breaking that into cores tends to not work well, and leads to non-deterministic behavior. It's really hard to factor out big hunks that can benefit.

We've had 10 years of the clear future being multiple cores, and not much has moved. I think the programming problems are super super hard, and not likely to be resolved soon.


Another possible future is that VR actually succeeds and takes off. There is no question that the biggest innovation on gaming is presently happening in VR.

Flat-gaming has clearly stalled. They can't even think up new twists on the same old formulas, and are reverting to rereleasing the same games with HD texture packs.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#18
Posted 08/01/2016 01:26 AM   
I have my update policy set to "ask before downloading" For 6 months, it never asked me, even though there were quite a few available. I would just manually go to the site and then pick and chose the updates. I find it funny, that yesterday they suddenly were asking me again to install some sketchy optional and other updates via the little pop up that i haven't seen in so long. lol, it was such a mess after I accidentally installed the windows 10 preload mega update, back when they first started offering the free W10 upgrade. Last thing I want, is any of that crap back on my PC or any other weird crap that they are trying to sneak in.
I have my update policy set to "ask before downloading"

For 6 months, it never asked me, even though there were quite a few available.

I would just manually go to the site and then pick and chose the updates.

I find it funny, that yesterday they suddenly were asking me again to install some sketchy optional and other updates via the little pop up that i haven't seen in so long.

lol, it was such a mess after I accidentally installed the windows 10 preload mega update, back when they first started offering the free W10 upgrade.

Last thing I want, is any of that crap back on my PC or any other weird crap that they are trying to sneak in.

#19
Posted 08/01/2016 01:43 AM   
While I'm not a fan of the path Microsoft is taking, DX12 makes Rise of the Tomb Raider playable for me. I'm not sure what category Rise of Tomb Raider would fall into in terms of DX12 support getting patched in, but DX12 effectively doubles my framerate and gets rid of stutter.
While I'm not a fan of the path Microsoft is taking, DX12 makes Rise of the Tomb Raider playable for me. I'm not sure what category Rise of Tomb Raider would fall into in terms of DX12 support getting patched in, but DX12 effectively doubles my framerate and gets rid of stutter.

i7-4770k @ 4.3GHz
EVGA GTX 1080Ti
16GB 2400MHz DDR3
1TB SanDisk SSD
2TB 7200RPM HDD
Windows 10 x64

#20
Posted 08/01/2016 03:30 AM   
After yet again having a Ranked Online Match minimize itself on me on SF5 costing me the game on windows 10. I am going back to windows 7 and staying there for the foreseeable future. I am so glad I chose to keep a dual booting system with both OS's Nothing is free. If it is, guess whose being sold....
After yet again having a Ranked Online Match minimize itself on me on SF5 costing me the game on windows 10. I am going back to windows 7 and staying there for the foreseeable future.

I am so glad I chose to keep a dual booting system with both OS's

Nothing is free. If it is, guess whose being sold....

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#21
Posted 08/01/2016 04:07 AM   
That probably wasn't Windows 10's fault. Here's a handy tool to find out what's stealing focus from games and causing that particular annoyance. In my case, it was Google Updater. http://www.happydroid.com/focus
That probably wasn't Windows 10's fault. Here's a handy tool to find out what's stealing focus from games and causing that particular annoyance. In my case, it was Google Updater.


http://www.happydroid.com/focus

#22
Posted 08/01/2016 02:11 PM   
And I just lost my level 60 Hardcore character on Path of exile in merciless difficulty because of it. That was truly the last straw... Thanks for the suggestion Pirateguybrush, I might try that a bit later, other tools of this nature hasn't helped me to isolate the issue so far. and one was definitely a microsoft scheduled task at some point doing it every night at 12am. But When I downloaded it windows 10 plain refuses to do so. complaining about a virus positive. At this moment I am out of patience and its back to Windows 7 for me.... I also run the exact same configuration in my Dual boot system so at this point I am still blaming windows 10 since it doesn't happen at all in 7
And I just lost my level 60 Hardcore character on Path of exile in merciless difficulty because of it.

That was truly the last straw...

Thanks for the suggestion Pirateguybrush, I might try that a bit later, other tools of this nature hasn't helped me to isolate the issue so far. and one was definitely a microsoft scheduled task at some point doing it every night at 12am.

But When I downloaded it windows 10 plain refuses to do so. complaining about a virus positive.
At this moment I am out of patience and its back to Windows 7 for me....

I also run the exact same configuration in my Dual boot system so at this point I am still blaming windows 10 since it doesn't happen at all in 7

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#23
Posted 08/01/2016 03:21 PM   
The biggest reason I would have to upgrade to Windows 10 would be emulators that exclusively use DX12 (cemu and xenia, I think). What I wonder the most is: does PPSSPP with 3D Vision stutter with the mandatory desktop composition of W10?
The biggest reason I would have to upgrade to Windows 10 would be emulators that exclusively use DX12 (cemu and xenia, I think).

What I wonder the most is: does PPSSPP with 3D Vision stutter with the mandatory desktop composition of W10?

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
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GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

#24
Posted 08/01/2016 03:30 PM   
[quote="oneup03"]While I'm not a fan of the path Microsoft is taking, DX12 makes Rise of the Tomb Raider playable for me. I'm not sure what category Rise of Tomb Raider would fall into in terms of DX12 support getting patched in, but DX12 effectively doubles my framerate and gets rid of stutter.[/quote] Great info, thanks for sharing that. I assume that this is in 3D Vision, right? It's entirely possible that especially with an SLI system in 3D that the CPU is the bottleneck, and that DX12 opens that draw call bottleneck. Here is a recent video with 1080 SLI, new drivers, updated game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecd4LV0TSU It shows some confusing parts, like the on screen Nvidia frame counter being wildly slower from the end result of the benchmark. If we assume the benchmark is correct instead, that's a 30% improvement in performance. The min frame rate is only better in one piece, Geothermal value. This one is a single 1080, all up to date, and shows a slight performance degradation (1%) using DX12: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omNKb91C5ic Maybe related Steam discussion about minimum frame rate being far superior on DX12, which would match your experience: [url]https://steamcommunity.com/app/391220/discussions/0/358417008720989272/[/url] Hard to say, seems like it might be a driver bug, since it's not consistent. Could be something unique to 3D Vision though, like a 3 core limit or something.
oneup03 said:While I'm not a fan of the path Microsoft is taking, DX12 makes Rise of the Tomb Raider playable for me. I'm not sure what category Rise of Tomb Raider would fall into in terms of DX12 support getting patched in, but DX12 effectively doubles my framerate and gets rid of stutter.

Great info, thanks for sharing that. I assume that this is in 3D Vision, right? It's entirely possible that especially with an SLI system in 3D that the CPU is the bottleneck, and that DX12 opens that draw call bottleneck.


Here is a recent video with 1080 SLI, new drivers, updated game:

It shows some confusing parts, like the on screen Nvidia frame counter being wildly slower from the end result of the benchmark. If we assume the benchmark is correct instead, that's a 30% improvement in performance. The min frame rate is only better in one piece, Geothermal value.

This one is a single 1080, all up to date, and shows a slight performance degradation (1%) using DX12:

Maybe related Steam discussion about minimum frame rate being far superior on DX12, which would match your experience: https://steamcommunity.com/app/391220/discussions/0/358417008720989272/

Hard to say, seems like it might be a driver bug, since it's not consistent. Could be something unique to 3D Vision though, like a 3 core limit or something.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#25
Posted 08/01/2016 10:42 PM   
[quote="bo3b"] Great info, thanks for sharing that. I assume that this is in 3D Vision, right? It's entirely possible that especially with an SLI system in 3D that the CPU is the bottleneck, and that DX12 opens that draw call bottleneck. Maybe related Steam discussion about minimum frame rate being far superior on DX12, which would match your experience: [url]https://steamcommunity.com/app/391220/discussions/0/358417008720989272/[/url] Hard to say, seems like it might be a driver bug, since it's not consistent. Could be something unique to 3D Vision though, like a 3 core limit or something.[/quote] I'm running the game in their SBS mode as 3DVision doesn't work in DX12. I think my CPU is the main bottleneck. I tried a higher overclock some months back and saw more improvement from that than changing any graphics settings, unfortunately the overclock wasn't stable. I think DX12 helps with my CPU bottleneck. From the Rise of the Tomb Raider thread: [quote="oneup03"]Nixxes did an awesome job with this latest patch! I had the same performance with official fix and the community fix: unplayable framerates in the big areas. This latest patch did not improve performance when using NVidia 3DVision or SBS in DX11. Geothermal Valley has constant stuttering, hitting 15fps and averaging 24fps. However, using DX12 SLI with SBS runs amazingly. In Geothermal Valley, my minimum fps is now 25, average is 50, and stuttering only happens on some transitions/saving. In terms of the 3D, I've only noticed a couple of minor issues remaining as they've fixed the majority of them. I would like for HBAO+ to work, but my hardware can't handle it anyway.[/quote]
bo3b said:
Great info, thanks for sharing that. I assume that this is in 3D Vision, right? It's entirely possible that especially with an SLI system in 3D that the CPU is the bottleneck, and that DX12 opens that draw call bottleneck.

Maybe related Steam discussion about minimum frame rate being far superior on DX12, which would match your experience: https://steamcommunity.com/app/391220/discussions/0/358417008720989272/

Hard to say, seems like it might be a driver bug, since it's not consistent. Could be something unique to 3D Vision though, like a 3 core limit or something.


I'm running the game in their SBS mode as 3DVision doesn't work in DX12.
I think my CPU is the main bottleneck. I tried a higher overclock some months back and saw more improvement from that than changing any graphics settings, unfortunately the overclock wasn't stable. I think DX12 helps with my CPU bottleneck.

From the Rise of the Tomb Raider thread:
oneup03 said:Nixxes did an awesome job with this latest patch!

I had the same performance with official fix and the community fix: unplayable framerates in the big areas. This latest patch did not improve performance when using NVidia 3DVision or SBS in DX11. Geothermal Valley has constant stuttering, hitting 15fps and averaging 24fps.

However, using DX12 SLI with SBS runs amazingly. In Geothermal Valley, my minimum fps is now 25, average is 50, and stuttering only happens on some transitions/saving.

In terms of the 3D, I've only noticed a couple of minor issues remaining as they've fixed the majority of them. I would like for HBAO+ to work, but my hardware can't handle it anyway.

i7-4770k @ 4.3GHz
EVGA GTX 1080Ti
16GB 2400MHz DDR3
1TB SanDisk SSD
2TB 7200RPM HDD
Windows 10 x64

#26
Posted 08/03/2016 01:07 AM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]That probably wasn't Windows 10's fault. Here's a handy tool to find out what's stealing focus from games and causing that particular annoyance. In my case, it was Google Updater. http://www.happydroid.com/focus[/quote] So I went and tried this out, Played dark souls 3 for a couple of hours and it happened. But the Program didn't show anything as stealing the focus. So, At this point I am blaming windows 10. Exact same configuration and programs on 7 doesn't exhibit the problem.
Pirateguybrush said:That probably wasn't Windows 10's fault. Here's a handy tool to find out what's stealing focus from games and causing that particular annoyance. In my case, it was Google Updater.


http://www.happydroid.com/focus



So I went and tried this out, Played dark souls 3 for a couple of hours and it happened. But the Program didn't show anything as stealing the focus.

So, At this point I am blaming windows 10. Exact same configuration and programs on 7 doesn't exhibit the problem.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#27
Posted 08/03/2016 01:54 AM   
Hmmm... Anniversary update causes Steam big picture to misfire, as well as problems with hacks that allowed people to not use XBox controllers but still DirectX. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/xbox-one-controllers-and-windows-10-pcs-its-all-a-mess-right-now/
Hmmm... Anniversary update causes Steam big picture to misfire, as well as problems with hacks that allowed people to not use XBox controllers but still DirectX.


http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/xbox-one-controllers-and-windows-10-pcs-its-all-a-mess-right-now/

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#28
Posted 08/07/2016 12:02 PM   
[quote="necropants"][quote="Pirateguybrush"]That probably wasn't Windows 10's fault. Here's a handy tool to find out what's stealing focus from games and causing that particular annoyance. In my case, it was Google Updater. http://www.happydroid.com/focus[/quote] So I went and tried this out, Played dark souls 3 for a couple of hours and it happened. But the Program didn't show anything as stealing the focus. So, At this point I am blaming windows 10. Exact same configuration and programs on 7 doesn't exhibit the problem.[/quote] I had the same problem, and I disabled every god damn program I could, but it continued none the less :/ Also I installed one of my old games, wich I knew couldn't run in 3D with it's original exe file, but swopping it with a cracked exe normally could fix the issue.. But I found the directory write protected, and even as Admin Win10 didn't allow me to enable writing :( That was it... Now I'm back with Win7, and I won't get back on Win10 any time soon !!!
necropants said:
Pirateguybrush said:That probably wasn't Windows 10's fault. Here's a handy tool to find out what's stealing focus from games and causing that particular annoyance. In my case, it was Google Updater.


http://www.happydroid.com/focus



So I went and tried this out, Played dark souls 3 for a couple of hours and it happened. But the Program didn't show anything as stealing the focus.

So, At this point I am blaming windows 10. Exact same configuration and programs on 7 doesn't exhibit the problem.


I had the same problem, and I disabled every god damn program I could, but it continued none the less :/

Also I installed one of my old games, wich I knew couldn't run in 3D with it's original exe file, but swopping it with a cracked exe normally could fix the issue..

But I found the directory write protected, and even as Admin Win10 didn't allow me to enable writing :(

That was it... Now I'm back with Win7, and I won't get back on Win10 any time soon !!!

Win7 64bit Pro
CPU: 4790K 4.8 GHZ
GPU: Aurus 1080 TI 2.08 GHZ - 100% Watercooled !
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
And lots of ram and HD's ;)

#29
Posted 08/07/2016 05:53 PM   
If any one is interested I appear to have found a fix to the problem. Although I am not 100% because I been playing all my competitive and "dangerous" games in windows 7. Forget about all the SFC /scannow crap you will find on the internet about this. It didn't work for me. Go to Microsoft and download their media creation tool. Make sure you get the right version of your currently installed windows system. Run the in place upgrade and choose to keep all files. It actually went through and reinstalled windows but left everything including all settings and programs as I left it. Haven't had the problem since.
If any one is interested I appear to have found a fix to the problem. Although I am not 100% because I been playing all my competitive and "dangerous" games in windows 7.

Forget about all the SFC /scannow crap you will find on the internet about this. It didn't work for me.

Go to Microsoft and download their media creation tool.
Make sure you get the right version of your currently installed windows system.
Run the in place upgrade and choose to keep all files.

It actually went through and reinstalled windows but left everything including all settings and programs as I left it. Haven't had the problem since.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#30
Posted 08/08/2016 02:30 AM   
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