John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions rival Mantle!
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So there we have it from the man himself, we do NOT need to shit our pants in fear about all this Mantle hype and for the record I wasent the slightest worry about it. Nvidia owns and AMD is grasping at straws so no news there ;) And he also talks about the 8GB the nextgen consoles will have! "According to Carmack himself, Nvidia’s OpenGL extensions can give similar improvements – regarding draw calls – with AMD’s Mantle" http://www.dsogaming.com/news/john-carmack-nvidias-opengl-extensions-rival-mantle-8gb-on-consoles-not-a-significant-change/
So there we have it from the man himself, we do NOT need to shit our pants in fear about all this Mantle hype and for the record I wasent the slightest worry about it. Nvidia owns and AMD is grasping at straws so no news there ;)

And he also talks about the 8GB the nextgen consoles will have!

"According to Carmack himself, Nvidia’s OpenGL extensions can give similar improvements – regarding draw calls – with AMD’s Mantle"

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/john-carmack-nvidias-opengl-extensions-rival-mantle-8gb-on-consoles-not-a-significant-change/

#1
Posted 10/19/2013 04:44 PM   
Jon Carmack...smart guy:P
Jon Carmack...smart guy:P

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#2
Posted 10/19/2013 09:50 PM   
But wait - I thought OpenGL games were incompatible with 3Dvision?
But wait - I thought OpenGL games were incompatible with 3Dvision?

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#3
Posted 10/20/2013 04:29 AM   
[quote="Volnaiskra"]But wait - I thought OpenGL games were incompatible with 3Dvision?[/quote] Neah! OpenGL works just as good as DirectX (sometimes even better if you code it better ofc:)) ) The only difference with 3D Vision is that nVidia supports 3D Vision AUTOMATIC only for DirectX games...(OpenGL AUTOMATIC was dropped from the old stereo3D to 3D Vision during the migration I guess, but OpenGL works just as fine as DX) I even created an app in OpenGL which works perfectly with 3D Vision under Windows ofc:) Under Linux I managed to make it work to some degree but ... the linux drivers don't upload the firmware to the emitter, so you need to hack your way around and manually upload them and simulate the sync between emitter and glasses. A smart guy figured it out:)) and I just integrated in my app) Theoretically 3D vision automatic can also work in Linux/Windows for OpenGL IF nvidia wants it... My hopes are that once the steamOS and box are out (having only nvidia gear) they will pull their head from the hole and add back 3d vision support in linux and the stereo automatic... (PS: we should make a "lobby" to nvidia about this:)) )
Volnaiskra said:But wait - I thought OpenGL games were incompatible with 3Dvision?


Neah! OpenGL works just as good as DirectX (sometimes even better if you code it better ofc:)) )

The only difference with 3D Vision is that nVidia supports 3D Vision AUTOMATIC only for DirectX games...(OpenGL AUTOMATIC was dropped from the old stereo3D to 3D Vision during the migration I guess, but OpenGL works just as fine as DX)

I even created an app in OpenGL which works perfectly with 3D Vision under Windows ofc:)
Under Linux I managed to make it work to some degree but ... the linux drivers don't upload the firmware to the emitter, so you need to hack your way around and manually upload them and simulate the sync between emitter and glasses. A smart guy figured it out:)) and I just integrated in my app)
Theoretically 3D vision automatic can also work in Linux/Windows for OpenGL IF nvidia wants it...

My hopes are that once the steamOS and box are out (having only nvidia gear) they will pull their head from the hole and add back 3d vision support in linux and the stereo automatic...
(PS: we should make a "lobby" to nvidia about this:)) )

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
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Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
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(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#4
Posted 10/20/2013 02:08 PM   
I'm all for that, with games like The Evil Within and Doom 4 on the horizon, older games like Rage and Penumbra/Amnesia, plus indie games like Tiny and Big: Grandpa's Leftovers to mention a few, there's plenty of reasons ... Although it does make me wonder which games would be good/perfect and which wouldn't, and if there could be an OpenGL way to fix them like the Helix Mod.
I'm all for that, with games like The Evil Within and Doom 4 on the horizon, older games like Rage and Penumbra/Amnesia, plus indie games like Tiny and Big: Grandpa's Leftovers to mention a few, there's plenty of reasons ... Although it does make me wonder which games would be good/perfect and which wouldn't, and if there could be an OpenGL way to fix them like the Helix Mod.
#5
Posted 10/20/2013 03:37 PM   
If nvidia dont implement it proper in StemOS as they themself together with Valve have worked on OpenGL we shall definetly give em hell :) So I really hope they will make it work fine, as you say TsaebehT those upcoming games will be wonderfull in 3D. So lets hope and as nvidia said that 3d vision will be great with G-Sync they better start pushing 3d again!
If nvidia dont implement it proper in StemOS as they themself together with Valve have worked on OpenGL we shall definetly give em hell :)

So I really hope they will make it work fine, as you say TsaebehT those upcoming games will be wonderfull in 3D. So lets hope and as nvidia said that 3d vision will be great with G-Sync they better start pushing 3d again!

#6
Posted 10/20/2013 05:34 PM   
It turns out that, unlike we previously thought, the Steam Machines won't all have nvidia hardware. There'll also be AMD versions, and even Intel-only versions. Given that Steam Machines are competing primarily with consoles rather than high-end PCs, I wouldn't be surprised if the AMD ones become much more popular, since they'll inevitably be cheaper. Nvidia currently has 50%+ of the desktop market, but I expect that will be reversed in the Steam Machines space. Either way, It sounds like OpenGL is a growing presence. I didn't quite understand your post, helifax, but it sounds like it will be fine *if* some preliminary work gets done by nVidia, Valve and/or smart modders - is that right?
It turns out that, unlike we previously thought, the Steam Machines won't all have nvidia hardware. There'll also be AMD versions, and even Intel-only versions.

Given that Steam Machines are competing primarily with consoles rather than high-end PCs, I wouldn't be surprised if the AMD ones become much more popular, since they'll inevitably be cheaper. Nvidia currently has 50%+ of the desktop market, but I expect that will be reversed in the Steam Machines space.


Either way, It sounds like OpenGL is a growing presence. I didn't quite understand your post, helifax, but it sounds like it will be fine *if* some preliminary work gets done by nVidia, Valve and/or smart modders - is that right?

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#7
Posted 10/20/2013 11:57 PM   
[quote="Volnaiskra"]Either way, It sounds like OpenGL is a growing presence. I didn't quite understand your post, helifax, but it sounds like it will be fine *if* some preliminary work gets done by nVidia, Valve and/or smart modders - is that right?[/quote]No, he's saying that people using OpenGL can already make their game 3D Vision compatible, but that it requires them to do that. Unlike Automatic mode where 3D is added to games by the driver. Very similar to something like Deus Ex and Crysis where they directly address the driver. (no requirement from OpenGL to botch the job either...)
Volnaiskra said:Either way, It sounds like OpenGL is a growing presence. I didn't quite understand your post, helifax, but it sounds like it will be fine *if* some preliminary work gets done by nVidia, Valve and/or smart modders - is that right?
No, he's saying that people using OpenGL can already make their game 3D Vision compatible, but that it requires them to do that. Unlike Automatic mode where 3D is added to games by the driver. Very similar to something like Deus Ex and Crysis where they directly address the driver. (no requirement from OpenGL to botch the job either...)

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#8
Posted 10/21/2013 04:09 AM   
Though the problem is that Opengl conflicts with nvidia/amd "features/implementations". They basically went all in with directx, so by developing a game on opengl you are guaranteed that there is no chance of additional funding via sponsorship from either company. Which makes it unlikely we will see practically any games building an renderer into an opengl game. Unless steam machine somehow destroys pc gaming as we know it [doubtful] will nvidia/amd want anyone to use opengl. The good news is they took down the "gate" and you can pretty much add 3d vision support without even contacting nvidia for opengl. Though I am really uncertain if it will always work with 3d tv play. TBH, I dont think steam machine will effect Direct X dominance unless you start seeing big engine support.
Though the problem is that Opengl conflicts with nvidia/amd "features/implementations". They basically went all in with directx, so by developing a game on opengl you are guaranteed that there is no chance of additional funding via sponsorship from either company. Which makes it unlikely we will see practically any games building an renderer into an opengl game. Unless steam machine somehow destroys pc gaming as we know it [doubtful] will nvidia/amd want anyone to use opengl.

The good news is they took down the "gate" and you can pretty much add 3d vision support without even contacting nvidia for opengl. Though I am really uncertain if it will always work with 3d tv play.

TBH, I dont think steam machine will effect Direct X dominance unless you start seeing big engine support.

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#9
Posted 10/21/2013 04:19 AM   
Hmm..3DTV play under linux I have no idea...but probably is the same as 3D Vision.. where you need to manually load/enable something as the drivers doesn't do that automatically....:) On Windows though...any application(including OpenGl) if it was coded with stereo in mind it should work on either 3D Vision and 3DTVplay... People can always download the test app (from my thread) and give it a shot I guess....I don't have a 3D TV and I always wondered myself...but I guess there is no difference...
Hmm..3DTV play under linux I have no idea...but probably is the same as 3D Vision.. where you need to manually load/enable something as the drivers doesn't do that automatically....:)
On Windows though...any application(including OpenGl) if it was coded with stereo in mind it should work on either 3D Vision and 3DTVplay...
People can always download the test app (from my thread) and give it a shot I guess....I don't have a 3D TV and I always wondered myself...but I guess there is no difference...

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- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
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etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
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(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#10
Posted 10/21/2013 08:44 AM   
[quote="eqzitara"] TBH, I dont think steam machine will effect Direct X dominance unless you start seeing big engine support.[/quote] I think you're right there. Very few gamers have any incentive to switch to a Linux system. And devs have even less incentive to pump resources into porting games to it. Even for those who can see the ideological reasons for doing so, the practical reasons aren't really there. Windows gaming is "good enough", and has a massive pre-existing infrastructure. I think SteamOS is more of a future-proofing move on the part of Valve, and probably a very smart one. Desktop PCs and even Laptop PCs are an endangered species, and Microsoft has demonstrated that it's trying to flee that sinking ship. If Valve just sat on their hands and let Microsoft keep tabletising Windows until it one day stopped being viable for gaming at all, Valve's massive empire would crumble into dust. I think SteamOS is more a long-term insurance policy than a short-term game-changer.
eqzitara said:
TBH, I dont think steam machine will effect Direct X dominance unless you start seeing big engine support.


I think you're right there. Very few gamers have any incentive to switch to a Linux system. And devs have even less incentive to pump resources into porting games to it.

Even for those who can see the ideological reasons for doing so, the practical reasons aren't really there. Windows gaming is "good enough", and has a massive pre-existing infrastructure.

I think SteamOS is more of a future-proofing move on the part of Valve, and probably a very smart one. Desktop PCs and even Laptop PCs are an endangered species, and Microsoft has demonstrated that it's trying to flee that sinking ship.

If Valve just sat on their hands and let Microsoft keep tabletising Windows until it one day stopped being viable for gaming at all, Valve's massive empire would crumble into dust.

I think SteamOS is more a long-term insurance policy than a short-term game-changer.

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#11
Posted 10/21/2013 08:50 AM   
Couldent help to not post these fine words over here as it's frikking music to my ears ;) OT 3D but nice anyway!! Perhaps no one said it better than Carmack, who said “NVIDIA’s support and tools are better than everyone else in the world combined.” http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/10/18/montreal/ And of course this if you havent heard about it before me rumbling over it :D "Engineers from Valve and NVIDIA have spent a lot of time collaborating on a common goal for SteamOS: to deliver an open-platform gaming experience with superior performance and uncompromising visuals. NVIDIA engineers embedded at Valve collaborated on improving driver performance for OpenGL; optimizing performance on NVIDIA GPUs; and helping to port Valve’s award-winning content library to SteamOS; and tuning SteamOS to lower latency, or lag, between the controller and onscreen action" http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/09/25/steam-rolling-into-your-living-room/
Couldent help to not post these fine words over here as it's frikking music to my ears ;)
OT 3D but nice anyway!!

Perhaps no one said it better than Carmack, who said “NVIDIA’s support and tools are better than everyone else in the world combined.”

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/10/18/montreal/

And of course this if you havent heard about it before me rumbling over it :D

"Engineers from Valve and NVIDIA have spent a lot of time collaborating on a common goal for SteamOS: to deliver an open-platform gaming experience with superior performance and uncompromising visuals.

NVIDIA engineers embedded at Valve collaborated on improving driver performance for OpenGL; optimizing performance on NVIDIA GPUs; and helping to port Valve’s award-winning content library to SteamOS; and tuning SteamOS to lower latency, or lag, between the controller and onscreen action"

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/09/25/steam-rolling-into-your-living-room/

#12
Posted 10/21/2013 10:47 AM   
Whatever the case...I do believe Linux will become a strong competitor and like Volnaiskra said, I think Valve is making an awesome and smart move;))
Whatever the case...I do believe Linux will become a strong competitor and like Volnaiskra said, I think Valve is making an awesome and smart move;))

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#13
Posted 10/21/2013 11:28 AM   
Yeah its about time Pc gaming gets out from MS deathgrip. Im guessing MS starts shitting their pants and they should, they have tried to kill off pc gaming for a long time now, stear everyone to their shitty Xbox plattform so this is the light we all have been waiting for.
Yeah its about time Pc gaming gets out from MS deathgrip.

Im guessing MS starts shitting their pants and they should, they have tried to kill off pc gaming for a long time now, stear everyone to their shitty Xbox plattform so this is the light we all have been waiting for.

#14
Posted 10/21/2013 01:05 PM   
[quote="eqzitara"]The good news is they took down the "gate" and you can pretty much add 3d vision support without even contacting nvidia for opengl. Though I am really uncertain if it will always work with 3d tv play.[/quote]Technically I'm not even using 3DTV Play and even I still have trouble with OpenGL games, they won't work unless I'm plugged directly into my DLP ... although I could most likely look into creating an EDID that supports both my Mitsubishi and my Onkyo receiver. [quote="eqzitara"]TBH, I dont think steam machine will effect Direct X dominance unless you start seeing big engine support.[/quote]I think it's safe to say the next version of Source will be one of those engines, maybe not as big as Unreal Engine 4 ... but I think that UE supporting it very early on is extremely likely as well as they 'seem' to support just about anything.
eqzitara said:The good news is they took down the "gate" and you can pretty much add 3d vision support without even contacting nvidia for opengl. Though I am really uncertain if it will always work with 3d tv play.
Technically I'm not even using 3DTV Play and even I still have trouble with OpenGL games, they won't work unless I'm plugged directly into my DLP ... although I could most likely look into creating an EDID that supports both my Mitsubishi and my Onkyo receiver.

eqzitara said:TBH, I dont think steam machine will effect Direct X dominance unless you start seeing big engine support.
I think it's safe to say the next version of Source will be one of those engines, maybe not as big as Unreal Engine 4 ... but I think that UE supporting it very early on is extremely likely as well as they 'seem' to support just about anything.
#15
Posted 10/21/2013 01:53 PM   
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