New CPU for 3D Vision I need some help and you guys know your stuff
I have doing this 3D thing for a while and I have convinced my wife (no great feat) that I would like to upgrade my PC CPU. Here is what I have

AMD965BE
2 x GTX470OC EVGA
8G of DDR2 Ram
w7 64bit

I play 3D vision on a Samsund DLP at 1920x1080. My frames are pretty good (30-60fps)but I wouldn't complain if they were better. Kinda' future proofing
Sooooooo........

Is the i5-2500K or i7-2600k really necessary? How many more frames will I really get. I have been told roughly 10 more so to me it is not worth it. Should I wait for Ivy Bridge?
I do know I would have to get a new mobo and ram and I do know some games are more cpu bound thean others. Just looking for more advice from the experts.
Thanks in advance.
I have doing this 3D thing for a while and I have convinced my wife (no great feat) that I would like to upgrade my PC CPU. Here is what I have



AMD965BE

2 x GTX470OC EVGA

8G of DDR2 Ram

w7 64bit



I play 3D vision on a Samsund DLP at 1920x1080. My frames are pretty good (30-60fps)but I wouldn't complain if they were better. Kinda' future proofing

Sooooooo........



Is the i5-2500K or i7-2600k really necessary? How many more frames will I really get. I have been told roughly 10 more so to me it is not worth it. Should I wait for Ivy Bridge?

I do know I would have to get a new mobo and ram and I do know some games are more cpu bound thean others. Just looking for more advice from the experts.

Thanks in advance.

#1
Posted 01/16/2012 04:36 PM   
10 FPS or more for minimums would be worth it imo, as 3D Vision users we're in a bit of a unique situation where MIN FPS means far more than AVG or MAX FPS you see in any benchmark. I do think a faster CPU would allow you to avoid some of those FPS drops in CPU limited situations.

But personally, I would try and OC that 965BE first. PhII is slower than Nehalem/Sandy Bridge clock-for-clock, but if you aren't already overclocking that CPU you should still see nice gains from overclocking it to help shape your opinion whether or not upgrading is worth it and maybe save a few bucks. Still, you won't be able to OC as high as you would on an Intel system, and an Intel system will still be faster at the same clock speeds, so it may still be worth considering upgrading again if you find the gains from OC'ing the PhII to be worthwhile.

Best course of action imo is to grab a decent 3rd party cooler (~$50) that has mounting hardware for both AMD and Intel sockets, and then try overclocking your 965 first. Then if you see a nice gain and still want to upgrade, go ahead and wait for Ivy Bridge to come out in a few months. IVB has a few significant improvements over SB, it'll be a smaller fabrication process, so it should have even more OC headroom and it'll support PCIe 3.0 for new GPUs. On the platform/chipset side, it will have native USB 3.0 support (finally).

GPU-wise I think you're still in great shape with 2x470. You could also overclock those a bit too to get additional performance out of them and in all but a few games you should be close to 60FPS per eye in non-CPU limited situations. I'm still amazed at how well my 2x480s perform in the overwhelming majority of games, just love everything about them except for maybe the heat lol. Finally got back to Assassin's Creed Brotherhood last night and was just amazed how a game that looked that good was locked at 60FPS per eye the entire time, no small feat given that's 60FPS min on a single 480 per eye.
10 FPS or more for minimums would be worth it imo, as 3D Vision users we're in a bit of a unique situation where MIN FPS means far more than AVG or MAX FPS you see in any benchmark. I do think a faster CPU would allow you to avoid some of those FPS drops in CPU limited situations.



But personally, I would try and OC that 965BE first. PhII is slower than Nehalem/Sandy Bridge clock-for-clock, but if you aren't already overclocking that CPU you should still see nice gains from overclocking it to help shape your opinion whether or not upgrading is worth it and maybe save a few bucks. Still, you won't be able to OC as high as you would on an Intel system, and an Intel system will still be faster at the same clock speeds, so it may still be worth considering upgrading again if you find the gains from OC'ing the PhII to be worthwhile.



Best course of action imo is to grab a decent 3rd party cooler (~$50) that has mounting hardware for both AMD and Intel sockets, and then try overclocking your 965 first. Then if you see a nice gain and still want to upgrade, go ahead and wait for Ivy Bridge to come out in a few months. IVB has a few significant improvements over SB, it'll be a smaller fabrication process, so it should have even more OC headroom and it'll support PCIe 3.0 for new GPUs. On the platform/chipset side, it will have native USB 3.0 support (finally).



GPU-wise I think you're still in great shape with 2x470. You could also overclock those a bit too to get additional performance out of them and in all but a few games you should be close to 60FPS per eye in non-CPU limited situations. I'm still amazed at how well my 2x480s perform in the overwhelming majority of games, just love everything about them except for maybe the heat lol. Finally got back to Assassin's Creed Brotherhood last night and was just amazed how a game that looked that good was locked at 60FPS per eye the entire time, no small feat given that's 60FPS min on a single 480 per eye.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#2
Posted 01/16/2012 06:06 PM   
[quote name='chiz' date='16 January 2012 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1326737195' post='1356757']
10 FPS or more for minimums would be worth it imo, as 3D Vision users we're in a bit of a unique situation where MIN FPS means far more than AVG or MAX FPS you see in any benchmark. I do think a faster CPU would allow you to avoid some of those FPS drops in CPU limited situations.

But personally, I would try and OC that 965BE first. PhII is slower than Nehalem/Sandy Bridge clock-for-clock, but if you aren't already overclocking that CPU you should still see nice gains from overclocking it to help shape your opinion whether or not upgrading is worth it and maybe save a few bucks. Still, you won't be able to OC as high as you would on an Intel system, and an Intel system will still be faster at the same clock speeds, so it may still be worth considering upgrading again if you find the gains from OC'ing the PhII to be worthwhile.

Best course of action imo is to grab a decent 3rd party cooler (~$50) that has mounting hardware for both AMD and Intel sockets, and then try overclocking your 965 first. Then if you see a nice gain and still want to upgrade, go ahead and wait for Ivy Bridge to come out in a few months. IVB has a few significant improvements over SB, it'll be a smaller fabrication process, so it should have even more OC headroom and it'll support PCIe 3.0 for new GPUs. On the platform/chipset side, it will have native USB 3.0 support (finally).

GPU-wise I think you're still in great shape with 2x470. You could also overclock those a bit too to get additional performance out of them and in all but a few games you should be close to 60FPS per eye in non-CPU limited situations. I'm still amazed at how well my 2x480s perform in the overwhelming majority of games, just love everything about them except for maybe the heat lol. Finally got back to Assassin's Creed Brotherhood last night and was just amazed how a game that looked that good was locked at 60FPS per eye the entire time, no small feat given that's 60FPS min on a single 480 per eye.
[/quote]
Thanks Chiz, I knew you would help me out. Is it wrong to say I am a little scared to OC? My wife considers me the Tim Allen of computers. I think I'll wait for the new ones to get cheaper. I just wish Rift ran a little better on Ultra. I guess I am just spoiled.
[quote name='chiz' date='16 January 2012 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1326737195' post='1356757']

10 FPS or more for minimums would be worth it imo, as 3D Vision users we're in a bit of a unique situation where MIN FPS means far more than AVG or MAX FPS you see in any benchmark. I do think a faster CPU would allow you to avoid some of those FPS drops in CPU limited situations.



But personally, I would try and OC that 965BE first. PhII is slower than Nehalem/Sandy Bridge clock-for-clock, but if you aren't already overclocking that CPU you should still see nice gains from overclocking it to help shape your opinion whether or not upgrading is worth it and maybe save a few bucks. Still, you won't be able to OC as high as you would on an Intel system, and an Intel system will still be faster at the same clock speeds, so it may still be worth considering upgrading again if you find the gains from OC'ing the PhII to be worthwhile.



Best course of action imo is to grab a decent 3rd party cooler (~$50) that has mounting hardware for both AMD and Intel sockets, and then try overclocking your 965 first. Then if you see a nice gain and still want to upgrade, go ahead and wait for Ivy Bridge to come out in a few months. IVB has a few significant improvements over SB, it'll be a smaller fabrication process, so it should have even more OC headroom and it'll support PCIe 3.0 for new GPUs. On the platform/chipset side, it will have native USB 3.0 support (finally).



GPU-wise I think you're still in great shape with 2x470. You could also overclock those a bit too to get additional performance out of them and in all but a few games you should be close to 60FPS per eye in non-CPU limited situations. I'm still amazed at how well my 2x480s perform in the overwhelming majority of games, just love everything about them except for maybe the heat lol. Finally got back to Assassin's Creed Brotherhood last night and was just amazed how a game that looked that good was locked at 60FPS per eye the entire time, no small feat given that's 60FPS min on a single 480 per eye.



Thanks Chiz, I knew you would help me out. Is it wrong to say I am a little scared to OC? My wife considers me the Tim Allen of computers. I think I'll wait for the new ones to get cheaper. I just wish Rift ran a little better on Ultra. I guess I am just spoiled.

#3
Posted 01/16/2012 08:11 PM   
Np. OC'ing is easy as long as you're somewhat responsible about it. I can honestly say as long as you stay a bit conservative and within established "safe" parameters you see in various forums, there is very little risk to damaging your hardware. I've been OC'ing my CPUs for over a decade and haven't killed a single one, most get repurposed to friends/relatives, or sold just as functional as the day I bought them.

But OC'ing isn't just free performance, its also like a time machine in the sense you can get tomorrow's CPU performance, today. Basically by overclocking you can achieve performance levels that will not be officially available at "stock" settings for a few years down the road. Intel has begun capitalizing on this overclocking headroom lately as well, monetizing it with their Turbo feature. They basically sanction overclocking under controlled settings while staying within their predetermined thermal envelopes. With user overclocking, you do the same but more aggressively and perpetually.

Even if you buy an IVB or SB CPU, you'll be leaving performance on the table if you don't OC it, but it'll definitely be a big upgrade for you. Either way you should consider buying a 3rd party cooler as the stock coolers just aren't very good. If you have a Micro Center near you, I'd recommend buying from them as their deals on Intel CPUs are just unmatched. Generally $100 cheaper on the mid-range performance CPUs you'd want to look at, like i7-2600K or the equivalent IVB when it launches. They can also have bundle promos with motherboards that can drop that price even more.
Np. OC'ing is easy as long as you're somewhat responsible about it. I can honestly say as long as you stay a bit conservative and within established "safe" parameters you see in various forums, there is very little risk to damaging your hardware. I've been OC'ing my CPUs for over a decade and haven't killed a single one, most get repurposed to friends/relatives, or sold just as functional as the day I bought them.



But OC'ing isn't just free performance, its also like a time machine in the sense you can get tomorrow's CPU performance, today. Basically by overclocking you can achieve performance levels that will not be officially available at "stock" settings for a few years down the road. Intel has begun capitalizing on this overclocking headroom lately as well, monetizing it with their Turbo feature. They basically sanction overclocking under controlled settings while staying within their predetermined thermal envelopes. With user overclocking, you do the same but more aggressively and perpetually.



Even if you buy an IVB or SB CPU, you'll be leaving performance on the table if you don't OC it, but it'll definitely be a big upgrade for you. Either way you should consider buying a 3rd party cooler as the stock coolers just aren't very good. If you have a Micro Center near you, I'd recommend buying from them as their deals on Intel CPUs are just unmatched. Generally $100 cheaper on the mid-range performance CPUs you'd want to look at, like i7-2600K or the equivalent IVB when it launches. They can also have bundle promos with motherboards that can drop that price even more.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#4
Posted 01/16/2012 11:07 PM   
[quote name='chiz' date='16 January 2012 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1326755225' post='1356841']
Np. OC'ing is easy as long as you're somewhat responsible about it. I can honestly say as long as you stay a bit conservative and within established "safe" parameters you see in various forums, there is very little risk to damaging your hardware. I've been OC'ing my CPUs for over a decade and haven't killed a single one, most get repurposed to friends/relatives, or sold just as functional as the day I bought them.

But OC'ing isn't just free performance, its also like a time machine in the sense you can get tomorrow's CPU performance, today. Basically by overclocking you can achieve performance levels that will not be officially available at "stock" settings for a few years down the road. Intel has begun capitalizing on this overclocking headroom lately as well, monetizing it with their Turbo feature. They basically sanction overclocking under controlled settings while staying within their predetermined thermal envelopes. With user overclocking, you do the same but more aggressively and perpetually.

Even if you buy an IVB or SB CPU, you'll be leaving performance on the table if you don't OC it, but it'll definitely be a big upgrade for you. Either way you should consider buying a 3rd party cooler as the stock coolers just aren't very good. If you have a Micro Center near you, I'd recommend buying from them as their deals on Intel CPUs are just unmatched. Generally $100 cheaper on the mid-range performance CPUs you'd want to look at, like i7-2600K or the equivalent IVB when it launches. They can also have bundle promos with motherboards that can drop that price even more.
[/quote]
I've never attached (myself) a fan to a processor. Is it really that difficult? I thought the 965BE didn't overclock so well. I do get it though and I will definitely wait for Ivy or the Wii U (just kidding) Do you recommend any good OC guides. Do I need a fire extinguisher?
[quote name='chiz' date='16 January 2012 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1326755225' post='1356841']

Np. OC'ing is easy as long as you're somewhat responsible about it. I can honestly say as long as you stay a bit conservative and within established "safe" parameters you see in various forums, there is very little risk to damaging your hardware. I've been OC'ing my CPUs for over a decade and haven't killed a single one, most get repurposed to friends/relatives, or sold just as functional as the day I bought them.



But OC'ing isn't just free performance, its also like a time machine in the sense you can get tomorrow's CPU performance, today. Basically by overclocking you can achieve performance levels that will not be officially available at "stock" settings for a few years down the road. Intel has begun capitalizing on this overclocking headroom lately as well, monetizing it with their Turbo feature. They basically sanction overclocking under controlled settings while staying within their predetermined thermal envelopes. With user overclocking, you do the same but more aggressively and perpetually.



Even if you buy an IVB or SB CPU, you'll be leaving performance on the table if you don't OC it, but it'll definitely be a big upgrade for you. Either way you should consider buying a 3rd party cooler as the stock coolers just aren't very good. If you have a Micro Center near you, I'd recommend buying from them as their deals on Intel CPUs are just unmatched. Generally $100 cheaper on the mid-range performance CPUs you'd want to look at, like i7-2600K or the equivalent IVB when it launches. They can also have bundle promos with motherboards that can drop that price even more.



I've never attached (myself) a fan to a processor. Is it really that difficult? I thought the 965BE didn't overclock so well. I do get it though and I will definitely wait for Ivy or the Wii U (just kidding) Do you recommend any good OC guides. Do I need a fire extinguisher?

#5
Posted 01/17/2012 03:20 AM   
[quote name='whodamanxbox' date='16 January 2012 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1326770446' post='1356946']
I've never attached (myself) a fan to a processor. Is it really that difficult? I thought the 965BE didn't overclock so well. I do get it though and I will definitely wait for Ivy or the Wii U (just kidding) Do you recommend any good OC guides. Do I need a fire extinguisher?
[/quote]

You may need a fire extinguisher if you are doing this over an open flame. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> How difficult it is depends on the particular cooler you choose and what case you have. Most ugraded heat sinks require access to the back of your motherboard, as they are heavy and require some sort of bracket to support them from the underside of the cpu. A lot of cases are designed with cut-outs in that area for just such a purpose. If not, you will likely have to pull the MB to attach the cooler. I had no trouble at all attaching my Zalman 9900 in the Antec 1200 case, but other reviews on the Zalman report having to pull the MB. The second concern you will have is the size of the cooler itself. We are talking anywhere from 2-4 times the size of the stock heat sink depending on your selection. Make sure it will clear the side cover once mounted. It really is a good idea to upgrade the cooler before trying to OC though. And OC'ing isn't that big of deal, it just takes patience. Try Tom's Hardware for overclocking guides, or the forums of MB manufacturers. There is an overclocking section of the forums at MSI for example.
[quote name='whodamanxbox' date='16 January 2012 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1326770446' post='1356946']

I've never attached (myself) a fan to a processor. Is it really that difficult? I thought the 965BE didn't overclock so well. I do get it though and I will definitely wait for Ivy or the Wii U (just kidding) Do you recommend any good OC guides. Do I need a fire extinguisher?





You may need a fire extinguisher if you are doing this over an open flame. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' /> How difficult it is depends on the particular cooler you choose and what case you have. Most ugraded heat sinks require access to the back of your motherboard, as they are heavy and require some sort of bracket to support them from the underside of the cpu. A lot of cases are designed with cut-outs in that area for just such a purpose. If not, you will likely have to pull the MB to attach the cooler. I had no trouble at all attaching my Zalman 9900 in the Antec 1200 case, but other reviews on the Zalman report having to pull the MB. The second concern you will have is the size of the cooler itself. We are talking anywhere from 2-4 times the size of the stock heat sink depending on your selection. Make sure it will clear the side cover once mounted. It really is a good idea to upgrade the cooler before trying to OC though. And OC'ing isn't that big of deal, it just takes patience. Try Tom's Hardware for overclocking guides, or the forums of MB manufacturers. There is an overclocking section of the forums at MSI for example.

|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:MSI 1080GTX "Duke"
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64

#6
Posted 01/18/2012 02:00 PM   
Attaching a heatsink to a CPU/board is very simple, all very mechanical if you have any experience with small screws/bolts you should be fine. If you've put together anything from IKEA its not much different, imo. Main thing is to take your time, and if you are concerned about damaging things, you can take some extra precautions to use some masking tape or painter's tape around the motherboard holes. The biggest concern from what I've seen is people damaging their CPU sockets or bending the CPU pins themselves, but again, this is all very easy to avoid as long as you handle the processor on the edges only and are careful when placing it in the socket. As Snicker said, the biggest hurdle to overcome is potentially having to remove your motherboard to attach the heatsink, as most aftermarket coolers are bolt-thru type (which is what you want ideally). On a new build its just part of the process, on your existing build you may have to break everything down to install it.

I'm pretty sure the 965BE OCs a bit, not as well as recent Intel CPUs in terms of max clocks or % overclock, but any gain you get should be a near linear increase in CPU limited games. You will want to see what others are getting for that CPU. For overclocking guides, the main review sites are OK, but they tend not to go into as much depth as they used to. Generally their motherboard reviews give the best overviews for OC'ing but I think the best feedback are end-user forum guides for specific boards or specific CPUs. I would just google search your board and add "overclocking guide" to the end of it and see what comes up. Then take a quick survey of the kind of results and settings people are using to achieve those results, taking into consideration the type of cooling they're using. Take the best results with air cooling, then go conservative a bit, and shoot maybe 100-200MHz lower as your target to start.

But you shouldn't need a fire extinguisher lol. Just need good lighting, a clean work space, a small container to collect all the screws and tiny bits from disassembly.
Attaching a heatsink to a CPU/board is very simple, all very mechanical if you have any experience with small screws/bolts you should be fine. If you've put together anything from IKEA its not much different, imo. Main thing is to take your time, and if you are concerned about damaging things, you can take some extra precautions to use some masking tape or painter's tape around the motherboard holes. The biggest concern from what I've seen is people damaging their CPU sockets or bending the CPU pins themselves, but again, this is all very easy to avoid as long as you handle the processor on the edges only and are careful when placing it in the socket. As Snicker said, the biggest hurdle to overcome is potentially having to remove your motherboard to attach the heatsink, as most aftermarket coolers are bolt-thru type (which is what you want ideally). On a new build its just part of the process, on your existing build you may have to break everything down to install it.



I'm pretty sure the 965BE OCs a bit, not as well as recent Intel CPUs in terms of max clocks or % overclock, but any gain you get should be a near linear increase in CPU limited games. You will want to see what others are getting for that CPU. For overclocking guides, the main review sites are OK, but they tend not to go into as much depth as they used to. Generally their motherboard reviews give the best overviews for OC'ing but I think the best feedback are end-user forum guides for specific boards or specific CPUs. I would just google search your board and add "overclocking guide" to the end of it and see what comes up. Then take a quick survey of the kind of results and settings people are using to achieve those results, taking into consideration the type of cooling they're using. Take the best results with air cooling, then go conservative a bit, and shoot maybe 100-200MHz lower as your target to start.



But you shouldn't need a fire extinguisher lol. Just need good lighting, a clean work space, a small container to collect all the screws and tiny bits from disassembly.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#7
Posted 01/18/2012 03:22 PM   
Oh and here's a solid CPU cooler with all of the necessary hardware for only $20 shipped, today only: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

I installed that same one for my gf, its a decent cooler that performs within a few C of the top air coolers but costs less than half as much. It also has all the mounting hardware for both AMD and Intel sockets.
Oh and here's a solid CPU cooler with all of the necessary hardware for only $20 shipped, today only: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065



I installed that same one for my gf, its a decent cooler that performs within a few C of the top air coolers but costs less than half as much. It also has all the mounting hardware for both AMD and Intel sockets.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#8
Posted 01/18/2012 05:25 PM   
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