3D Vision Cpu Core Bottleneck
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Hi everyone! Been getting quite frustrated with the poor performance I'm getting in 3D and I think Ragedemon has worked it out: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/825678/3d-vision/gta-v-problems-amp-solutions-list-please-keep-gta-discussion-here-/19/ When using 3D Vision games only use up to 3 cores. I tried it myself with GTA 5 scaling up the number of core affinity to GTA 5. Once you've got to three that's your lot, leaving GTA running between 35-45 FPS, using only about 40% GPU on my 2 gtx 980s in SLI. I then disabled the 3d Vision driver and of course the FPS shot up to over 120fps and I get gpu usage of close to 100%. Disabled cores and discovered that with 3 cores enabled I get exactly the same performance as with 3d Vision enabled (without 3d of course) the same low gpu usage and low fps. Adding back the cores increases usage add brings it back to over 120fps. Of course this doesn't matter for alot of old games, but I think we are going to find this a big problem in the future. Something that hardware upgrades can't even help with! Anyone noticed this in any other games? Ragedemon says that it happens in AC4 Black Flag and CoD: Advanced Warfare too. Anyone found a workaround? Is it too optimistic to hope could be fixed in future drivers?
Hi everyone!

Been getting quite frustrated with the poor performance I'm getting in 3D and I think Ragedemon has worked it out:


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/825678/3d-vision/gta-v-problems-amp-solutions-list-please-keep-gta-discussion-here-/19/


When using 3D Vision games only use up to 3 cores. I tried it myself with GTA 5 scaling up the number of core affinity to GTA 5. Once you've got to three that's your lot, leaving GTA running between 35-45 FPS, using only about 40% GPU on my 2 gtx 980s in SLI.

I then disabled the 3d Vision driver and of course the FPS shot up to over 120fps and I get gpu usage of close to 100%. Disabled cores and discovered that with 3 cores enabled I get exactly the same performance as with 3d Vision enabled (without 3d of course) the same low gpu usage and low fps. Adding back the cores increases usage add brings it back to over 120fps.

Of course this doesn't matter for alot of old games, but I think we are going to find this a big problem in the future. Something that hardware upgrades can't even help with!

Anyone noticed this in any other games? Ragedemon says that it happens in AC4 Black Flag and CoD: Advanced Warfare too.

Anyone found a workaround?

Is it too optimistic to hope could be fixed in future drivers?

#1
Posted 05/15/2015 06:25 PM   
The 3D Vision driver is rather old nowdays... I found numerous bugs/unfinished implementation in their driver... The last thing we got regarding 3D Vision (development) was the CM mode one year ago... Nvidia doesn't advertise it anymore even... They will probably push VR next (sometime). This is not only related to 3D Vision though... Look at DSR... half of the configurations are not supported... (Mobile GPUs, Surround resolutions). Look at shadowplay... (Surround still not supported, last I checked on mobile gpu and surround configs) and the list goes on... Back to your question: Yes I noticed this thing for more than a year now, just didn't went to a full testing extent... Before people start trashing devs I just one to say one thing... Multi-thread development is not SIMPLE as single threaded one... Multi CPU/core is even more "fun" :) I would love to see some additions to the 3D Vision driver...but I don't think it will happen sadly..:(
The 3D Vision driver is rather old nowdays...
I found numerous bugs/unfinished implementation in their driver...

The last thing we got regarding 3D Vision (development) was the CM mode one year ago...
Nvidia doesn't advertise it anymore even...

They will probably push VR next (sometime). This is not only related to 3D Vision though... Look at DSR... half of the configurations are not supported... (Mobile GPUs, Surround resolutions). Look at shadowplay... (Surround still not supported, last I checked on mobile gpu and surround configs) and the list goes on...

Back to your question: Yes I noticed this thing for more than a year now, just didn't went to a full testing extent...

Before people start trashing devs I just one to say one thing... Multi-thread development is not SIMPLE as single threaded one... Multi CPU/core is even more "fun" :)

I would love to see some additions to the 3D Vision driver...but I don't think it will happen sadly..:(

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#2
Posted 05/15/2015 09:43 PM   
This is probably a very naive thing to say, but has anyone approached Nvidia about doing work on the 3Dvision driver for them, for free? They obviously don't want to sink costs into 3dvision, but if they hired you for nothing (while still signing nda agreements etc) ... Some of you guys already volunteer heaps of your time hacking from the outside. May as well see if you can have a go from the inside
This is probably a very naive thing to say, but has anyone approached Nvidia about doing work on the 3Dvision driver for them, for free?

They obviously don't want to sink costs into 3dvision, but if they hired you for nothing (while still signing nda agreements etc) ...

Some of you guys already volunteer heaps of your time hacking from the outside. May as well see if you can have a go from the inside

ImageVolnaPC.com - Tips, tweaks, performance comparisons (PhysX card, SLI scaling, etc)

#3
Posted 05/15/2015 11:37 PM   
[quote="T_L_T"]When using 3D Vision games only use up to 3 cores. I tried it myself with GTA 5 scaling up the number of core affinity to GTA 5. Once you've got to three that's your lot, leaving GTA running between 35-45 FPS, using only about 40% GPU on my 2 gtx 980s in SLI. I then disabled the 3d Vision driver and of course the FPS shot up to over 120fps and I get gpu usage of close to 100%. Disabled cores and discovered that with 3 cores enabled I get exactly the same performance as with 3d Vision enabled (without 3d of course) the same low gpu usage and low fps. Adding back the cores increases usage add brings it back to over 120fps.[/quote] Terrific test! Thank you for doing the 2D variant of CPU cores test, as that was next on my (too long) agenda. [quote="Volnaiskra"]This is probably a very naive thing to say, but has anyone approached Nvidia about doing work on the 3Dvision driver for them, for free? They obviously don't want to sink costs into 3dvision, but if they hired you for nothing (while still signing nda agreements etc) ... Some of you guys already volunteer heaps of your time hacking from the outside. May as well see if you can have a go from the inside [/quote] The thing about 3D Vision is that here on the forum we feel it's dead to the world, and NVidia is doing nothing, but that's not actually true. They won't sink further money into new development, but the team there is definitely interested in keeping it working and fixing bugs that cause problems. The reason I know this is because I've met with the principal engineer on 3D Vision a couple of times already to talk about problems and their ideas for making things easier. I live in SiValley, so it's been convenient to drop by their headquarters. They want to work with us (not just me) to improve the state of 3D Vision. As long as it doesn't cost more money. So hiring people isn't going to happen, paying game devs to implement 3D isn't going to happen, but bug fixes and non-architectural improvements are definitely possible. I like the idea of suggesting work for free, that [i]might [/i]be possible. I'm less sure it's easier to fix from within or without. TBH, It's been a bit of surprise that they are genuinely interested in fixing things, but have responded to a couple of my requests, and pressed me to let them know where things are bad. So I'll definitely be more active at bringing them to their attention. The reality is that oftentimes they just don't know. I know that's weird, but it's part of corporate life that no one ever looks at the user forums. Too much noise, and to be frank, too much hate. Nobody wants to read that they suck 100 times a day. If we can give them actionable, repeatable, problems, they have promised to look into fixing them. I'll make it a point to forward this to them, including RAGEdemon's results. I had a meeting with them yesterday, and this 3 core problem is news to them, and not supposed to happen. The first thing asked was what if you set the cores to 3 in 2D, and T_L_T has the answer already so this is a good start. Don't hold your breath, you know these things take time, but I just wanted to assure you that they are in fact actively interested.
T_L_T said:When using 3D Vision games only use up to 3 cores. I tried it myself with GTA 5 scaling up the number of core affinity to GTA 5. Once you've got to three that's your lot, leaving GTA running between 35-45 FPS, using only about 40% GPU on my 2 gtx 980s in SLI.

I then disabled the 3d Vision driver and of course the FPS shot up to over 120fps and I get gpu usage of close to 100%. Disabled cores and discovered that with 3 cores enabled I get exactly the same performance as with 3d Vision enabled (without 3d of course) the same low gpu usage and low fps. Adding back the cores increases usage add brings it back to over 120fps.

Terrific test! Thank you for doing the 2D variant of CPU cores test, as that was next on my (too long) agenda.


Volnaiskra said:This is probably a very naive thing to say, but has anyone approached Nvidia about doing work on the 3Dvision driver for them, for free?

They obviously don't want to sink costs into 3dvision, but if they hired you for nothing (while still signing nda agreements etc) ...

Some of you guys already volunteer heaps of your time hacking from the outside. May as well see if you can have a go from the inside

The thing about 3D Vision is that here on the forum we feel it's dead to the world, and NVidia is doing nothing, but that's not actually true. They won't sink further money into new development, but the team there is definitely interested in keeping it working and fixing bugs that cause problems.

The reason I know this is because I've met with the principal engineer on 3D Vision a couple of times already to talk about problems and their ideas for making things easier. I live in SiValley, so it's been convenient to drop by their headquarters. They want to work with us (not just me) to improve the state of 3D Vision. As long as it doesn't cost more money. So hiring people isn't going to happen, paying game devs to implement 3D isn't going to happen, but bug fixes and non-architectural improvements are definitely possible.

I like the idea of suggesting work for free, that might be possible. I'm less sure it's easier to fix from within or without.


TBH, It's been a bit of surprise that they are genuinely interested in fixing things, but have responded to a couple of my requests, and pressed me to let them know where things are bad. So I'll definitely be more active at bringing them to their attention. The reality is that oftentimes they just don't know. I know that's weird, but it's part of corporate life that no one ever looks at the user forums. Too much noise, and to be frank, too much hate. Nobody wants to read that they suck 100 times a day.

If we can give them actionable, repeatable, problems, they have promised to look into fixing them.


I'll make it a point to forward this to them, including RAGEdemon's results. I had a meeting with them yesterday, and this 3 core problem is news to them, and not supposed to happen.

The first thing asked was what if you set the cores to 3 in 2D, and T_L_T has the answer already so this is a good start.

Don't hold your breath, you know these things take time, but I just wanted to assure you that they are in fact actively interested.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#4
Posted 05/16/2015 03:03 AM   
@bo3b Perhaps you could talk to them about 3DTV Play? 1920x1080@24Hz is not acceptable for 3D gaming, even less now that 4K displays are out. Also it would be huge if they'd officially support Dual Projection on the consumer side again via 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.
@bo3b Perhaps you could talk to them about 3DTV Play?

1920x1080@24Hz is not acceptable for 3D gaming, even less now that 4K displays are out.

Also it would be huge if they'd officially support Dual Projection on the consumer side again via 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.

#5
Posted 05/16/2015 03:39 AM   
Yes, Could you please ask them to add 1080p 60hz for HDMI 2.0 displays with 3DTV play. Thanks.
Yes, Could you please ask them to add 1080p 60hz for HDMI 2.0 displays with 3DTV play. Thanks.

#6
Posted 05/16/2015 04:08 AM   
While we're throwing out suggestions, DSR for 720P would be great.
While we're throwing out suggestions, DSR for 720P would be great.

#7
Posted 05/16/2015 04:14 AM   
That's great news the 3d Vision isn't quite dead yet! Fingers crossed it's an easy fix that can be done. I'm hoping we some changes soon when the ROG Swift SLI/3d Vision gets fixed, may even buy one then and then at least have a higher resolution and g-sync for game that really just don't work in 3d. [quote="Pirateguybrush"]While we're throwing out suggestions, DSR for 720P would be great.[/quote] I managed to get DSR on 720p working on my projector by using CRU https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monitortests.com%2Fforum%2FThread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU&ei=igVXVcr7LKf17AahrIGoBg&usg=AFQjCNEV5mPc0_rrAWLf9bBgz256OoeOnw&sig2=xx18fUoYrhnQ-1XtxmZIPw&bvm=bv.93564037,d.ZGU And then disabling all other resolutions but 720p Hope that helps!
That's great news the 3d Vision isn't quite dead yet! Fingers crossed it's an easy fix that can be done.

I'm hoping we some changes soon when the ROG Swift SLI/3d Vision gets fixed, may even buy one then and then at least have a higher resolution and g-sync for game that really just don't work in 3d.

Pirateguybrush said:While we're throwing out suggestions, DSR for 720P would be great.


I managed to get DSR on 720p working on my projector by using CRU


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monitortests.com%2Fforum%2FThread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU&ei=igVXVcr7LKf17AahrIGoBg&usg=AFQjCNEV5mPc0_rrAWLf9bBgz256OoeOnw&sig2=xx18fUoYrhnQ-1XtxmZIPw&bvm=bv.93564037,d.ZGU


And then disabling all other resolutions but 720p

Hope that helps!

#8
Posted 05/16/2015 08:56 AM   
[quote="T_L_T"]That's great news the 3d Vision isn't quite dead yet! Fingers crossed it's an easy fix that can be done. I'm hoping we some changes soon when the ROG Swift SLI/3d Vision gets fixed, may even buy one then and then at least have a higher resolution and g-sync for game that really just don't work in 3d. [quote="Pirateguybrush"]While we're throwing out suggestions, DSR for 720P would be great.[/quote] I managed to get DSR on 720p working on my projector by using CRU https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monitortests.com%2Fforum%2FThread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU&ei=igVXVcr7LKf17AahrIGoBg&usg=AFQjCNEV5mPc0_rrAWLf9bBgz256OoeOnw&sig2=xx18fUoYrhnQ-1XtxmZIPw&bvm=bv.93564037,d.ZGU And then disabling all other resolutions but 720p Hope that helps![/quote] same here, playing on 720p with DSR - btw if somebody needs modified .inf for projector with only remaining resolution 720p, I can share it.
T_L_T said:That's great news the 3d Vision isn't quite dead yet! Fingers crossed it's an easy fix that can be done.

I'm hoping we some changes soon when the ROG Swift SLI/3d Vision gets fixed, may even buy one then and then at least have a higher resolution and g-sync for game that really just don't work in 3d.

Pirateguybrush said:While we're throwing out suggestions, DSR for 720P would be great.


I managed to get DSR on 720p working on my projector by using CRU


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monitortests.com%2Fforum%2FThread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU&ei=igVXVcr7LKf17AahrIGoBg&usg=AFQjCNEV5mPc0_rrAWLf9bBgz256OoeOnw&sig2=xx18fUoYrhnQ-1XtxmZIPw&bvm=bv.93564037,d.ZGU


And then disabling all other resolutions but 720p

Hope that helps!


same here, playing on 720p with DSR - btw if somebody needs modified .inf for projector with only remaining resolution 720p, I can share it.

#9
Posted 05/16/2015 09:00 AM   
I've tried that, but haven't had any success due to (what seems to be) the limitations of my receiver.
I've tried that, but haven't had any success due to (what seems to be) the limitations of my receiver.

#10
Posted 05/16/2015 09:40 AM   
I've also fiddled with CRU and Analog Way Edid Editor with no luck for DSR, I also think because of my receiver (Pioneer VSX-821). If anyone has an .inf which includes 5.1 audio I'd love to try it, but I suspect that's part of the problem.
I've also fiddled with CRU and Analog Way Edid Editor with no luck for DSR, I also think because of my receiver (Pioneer VSX-821). If anyone has an .inf which includes 5.1 audio I'd love to try it, but I suspect that's part of the problem.

#11
Posted 05/16/2015 10:13 AM   
[quote="D-Man11"]@bo3b Perhaps you could talk to them about 3DTV Play? 1920x1080@24Hz is not acceptable for 3D gaming, even less now that 4K displays are out. Also it would be huge if they'd officially support Dual Projection on the consumer side again via 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.[/quote] Will do. This is definitely a big pain point and should not be very hard to fix. Exactly the sort of thing they can do something about.
D-Man11 said:@bo3b Perhaps you could talk to them about 3DTV Play?

1920x1080@24Hz is not acceptable for 3D gaming, even less now that 4K displays are out.

Also it would be huge if they'd officially support Dual Projection on the consumer side again via 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.

Will do. This is definitely a big pain point and should not be very hard to fix. Exactly the sort of thing they can do something about.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#12
Posted 05/16/2015 10:14 AM   
Thank You. It would be awesome to use my H6510BD at 1920x1080@30Hz :) Or even more awesome to buy a second PJ for Dual Passive Projection at 1920x1080@60Hz per eye ;) Be sure that you mention that AMD users such as Blackshark have been doing this for several years now. EDIT: PS, tell them to please update the 3D Vision and G-Sync Displays list, you'd at least think that the ROG Swift would have been added to the 3D list by now.
Thank You.

It would be awesome to use my H6510BD at 1920x1080@30Hz :)

Or even more awesome to buy a second PJ for Dual Passive Projection at 1920x1080@60Hz per eye ;)

Be sure that you mention that AMD users such as Blackshark have been doing this for several years now.

EDIT: PS, tell them to please update the 3D Vision and G-Sync Displays list, you'd at least think that the ROG Swift would have been added to the 3D list by now.

#13
Posted 05/16/2015 12:46 PM   
Well if you have contact with the 3d vision devs can you ask them about making these fixes? Especially the Batman Arkham series issues with drivers after 337.88. This is what is keeping me from upgrading to later drivers. Both are Unreal engine games. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/809465/poor-3dvision-performance-in-all-batman-arkham-games/#4453515 https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/814169/tron-evolution-sub-30fps-in-3dmode/#4471672
Well if you have contact with the 3d vision devs can you ask them about making these fixes? Especially the Batman Arkham series issues with drivers after 337.88. This is what is keeping me from upgrading to later drivers. Both are Unreal engine games.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/809465/poor-3dvision-performance-in-all-batman-arkham-games/#4453515
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/814169/tron-evolution-sub-30fps-in-3dmode/#4471672

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
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G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#14
Posted 05/16/2015 10:47 PM   
[quote="terintamel"]Well if you have contact with the 3d vision devs can you ask them about making these fixes? Especially the Batman Arkham series issues with drivers after 337.88. This is what is keeping me from upgrading to later drivers. Both are Unreal engine games. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/809465/poor-3dvision-performance-in-all-batman-arkham-games/#4453515[/url] [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/814169/tron-evolution-sub-30fps-in-3dmode/#4471672[/url][/quote] I'd be happy to. I want to be sure to have high quality bug reports though, so can you test this on 350.12 and let me know if you still see it? 350.12 is a different branch and seems to be better all around for 3D so far. The very first question they'll ask will be 'did you try the latest driver'. Also did you file a bug here? [url]http://www.nvidia.com/object/driverqualityassurance.html[/url] BTW, relative to the 3 core CPU problem, it would be awesome if someone could do the 3 core experiment on older drivers. If this is something introduced, that is really helpful info. GTA5 would be a good test case, because it runs on old drivers.
terintamel said:Well if you have contact with the 3d vision devs can you ask them about making these fixes? Especially the Batman Arkham series issues with drivers after 337.88. This is what is keeping me from upgrading to later drivers. Both are Unreal engine games.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/809465/poor-3dvision-performance-in-all-batman-arkham-games/#4453515
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/814169/tron-evolution-sub-30fps-in-3dmode/#4471672

I'd be happy to. I want to be sure to have high quality bug reports though, so can you test this on 350.12 and let me know if you still see it? 350.12 is a different branch and seems to be better all around for 3D so far. The very first question they'll ask will be 'did you try the latest driver'.

Also did you file a bug here? http://www.nvidia.com/object/driverqualityassurance.html


BTW, relative to the 3 core CPU problem, it would be awesome if someone could do the 3 core experiment on older drivers. If this is something introduced, that is really helpful info. GTA5 would be a good test case, because it runs on old drivers.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#15
Posted 05/16/2015 11:51 PM   
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