Convergence adjustment help
Hey everyone, I received my 3d vision package with the Asus VG236h monitor about a month and a half ago. I have been messing around with settings and have gotten mostly everything solid with depth, ghosting, monitor settings, etc. The one area that i am somewhat unsure of is convergence. This topic may seem somewhat stupid as i know that setting is somewhat based on personal preference, but i was wondering how best to adjust convergence from the default. Are there certain parameters to look for? or just a certain amount to go over the default that suit most games? I find it difficult as there is no actually meter or indicator like with depth (unless im missing it) and not every gameplay situation will have pop-out or be best suited to test the limits so it can be difficult to test because of that.

Please dont hate if i am missing the obvious as i am new to all of this 3d vision material haha. Any help would be appreciated or any links to guides of certain games, or just in general, that might be helpful. Thanks :)
Hey everyone, I received my 3d vision package with the Asus VG236h monitor about a month and a half ago. I have been messing around with settings and have gotten mostly everything solid with depth, ghosting, monitor settings, etc. The one area that i am somewhat unsure of is convergence. This topic may seem somewhat stupid as i know that setting is somewhat based on personal preference, but i was wondering how best to adjust convergence from the default. Are there certain parameters to look for? or just a certain amount to go over the default that suit most games? I find it difficult as there is no actually meter or indicator like with depth (unless im missing it) and not every gameplay situation will have pop-out or be best suited to test the limits so it can be difficult to test because of that.



Please dont hate if i am missing the obvious as i am new to all of this 3d vision material haha. Any help would be appreciated or any links to guides of certain games, or just in general, that might be helpful. Thanks :)

#1
Posted 05/25/2011 04:18 AM   
i would suggest u got to mtbs web site and their forums have a great deal of info on this. meant to be seen is mtbs.com
i would suggest u got to mtbs web site and their forums have a great deal of info on this. meant to be seen is mtbs.com

#2
Posted 05/25/2011 04:40 AM   
Convergence controls at which distance the two views (left/right) will convergence into a single view. When this happens, your eyes are focusing directly into the screen surface. Hence, those objects are said to be at "screen depth".

For a 'realistic' setting you want objects at screen depth to be more or less at the same distance that the distance that you are sitting from the screen. (aaaargh, everytime I try to describe this I can't really find a way to say it easily in words.... /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' /> ) I mean, if you sit at 70 cm from your monitor, then objects of the game that are at 70 cm from the camera should convergence into a single view and appear at screen depth. Anything closer will pop-out and anything farther will go into the screen.

Usually you don't have any clue of the distances from the game camera to the game objects. What I often do, in first person shooters, is to walk to a wall until the character can't move closer to it. Then, without glasses, I change convergence until the wall texture is not doubled. From that point I add just tiny bit more of convergence so the wall comes out from the screen. This is valid for desktop monitors that used to be placed quite close to the user, emulating more or less the distance at which a wall in the game could be when the character is placed as close as possible to it.

Too much convergence can really stress the eyes, so if you feel you are forcing your eyes to focus the image, lessen the convergence, or alternatively, separation.
Convergence controls at which distance the two views (left/right) will convergence into a single view. When this happens, your eyes are focusing directly into the screen surface. Hence, those objects are said to be at "screen depth".



For a 'realistic' setting you want objects at screen depth to be more or less at the same distance that the distance that you are sitting from the screen. (aaaargh, everytime I try to describe this I can't really find a way to say it easily in words.... /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' /> ) I mean, if you sit at 70 cm from your monitor, then objects of the game that are at 70 cm from the camera should convergence into a single view and appear at screen depth. Anything closer will pop-out and anything farther will go into the screen.



Usually you don't have any clue of the distances from the game camera to the game objects. What I often do, in first person shooters, is to walk to a wall until the character can't move closer to it. Then, without glasses, I change convergence until the wall texture is not doubled. From that point I add just tiny bit more of convergence so the wall comes out from the screen. This is valid for desktop monitors that used to be placed quite close to the user, emulating more or less the distance at which a wall in the game could be when the character is placed as close as possible to it.



Too much convergence can really stress the eyes, so if you feel you are forcing your eyes to focus the image, lessen the convergence, or alternatively, separation.

#3
Posted 05/25/2011 07:29 AM   
[quote name='jayhawker2' date='24 May 2011 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1306297093' post='1242016']
Hey everyone, I received my 3d vision package with the Asus VG236h monitor about a month and a half ago. I have been messing around with settings and have gotten mostly everything solid with depth, ghosting, monitor settings, etc. The one area that i am somewhat unsure of is convergence. This topic may seem somewhat stupid as i know that setting is somewhat based on personal preference, but i was wondering how best to adjust convergence from the default. Are there certain parameters to look for? or just a certain amount to go over the default that suit most games? I find it difficult as there is no actually meter or indicator like with depth (unless im missing it) and not every gameplay situation will have pop-out or be best suited to test the limits so it can be difficult to test because of that.[/quote]
It tends to change from game to game. If a game has lots of user interface stuff on the screen, you aren't going to want popout. If you do, objects are going to be popping out of the screen but they will also be covered by the UI. So your eyes will be telling you that the object is 10 inches from your face and it will be telling you that the health bar is covering up part of the object - but the health bar is 20 inches from your face. So now your brain has to figure out how something 20 inches away is covering up something that's only 10 inches away. It will probably do some odd bending of the images to try and resolve this and, if you persist in making it deal with such insanity, it will likely start to fight back by giving you a headache.

You're pretty new to this so, if I were you, I would just stick with the default settings for a couple of days. Let your head get used to the concept of the whole 3D thing. After that, do the following:

Get in some game where there are distant objects. The further away the better. Beware of using stars or clouds, though. Games sometimes cheat with those so they are actually just a few feet up. An open world RPG where you can see a landmark that you can really get to works well.

Now look at that distant object and crank up the depth. The object should get further and further away. With a monitor, you might be able to go all the way to 100% but, if you are sitting close to a larger screen, you'll likely start to see the distant object go strange on you. Back off on the depth so the object appears distant but not screwy. Then back off a little more just to be safe. (What you are trying to do here is find the point where your eyes are looking parallel at the two images. If you push the depth too high, the two images will get further apart than your two eyes, which isn't good.)

Next play with the convergence. As you've noted, this one is a bit tricky because there isn't an on-screen indicator. Worse yet, you sometimes need to change convergence a LOT to see any effect at all... then suddenly there's a lot of change. Essentially, convergence controls where your screen is in the world. If you bring the screen way back, nothing will ever pop out or even get close to the screen. If you push it forward, you'll get more popout and the world will seem closer to you. If you push the screen too far forward, things pop out so much that they would have to go cross-eyed to see them, which is never good.

For convergence, I try to find a "typical' situation. For RPGs, I'll get in a dialog with somebody. Then I'll move the screen to where I like it. For instance, if it's a shooter where I can see my gun sticking up from the bottom of the screen, I'll pull the screen position back. This way I don't have the weird situation where the edge of my screen seems to be covering up the lower part of my gun yet my gun seems to be closer to me than the bottom of the screen.

[quote]Please dont hate if i am missing the obvious as i am new to all of this 3d vision material haha. Any help would be appreciated or any links to guides of certain games, or just in general, that might be helpful. Thanks :)
[/quote]
OK, but you need to dress in purple and white then sing Wabash Cannonball for us. <evil grin>

Many a game guide here: http://www.solutiongaming.co.uk/index.html
[quote name='jayhawker2' date='24 May 2011 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1306297093' post='1242016']

Hey everyone, I received my 3d vision package with the Asus VG236h monitor about a month and a half ago. I have been messing around with settings and have gotten mostly everything solid with depth, ghosting, monitor settings, etc. The one area that i am somewhat unsure of is convergence. This topic may seem somewhat stupid as i know that setting is somewhat based on personal preference, but i was wondering how best to adjust convergence from the default. Are there certain parameters to look for? or just a certain amount to go over the default that suit most games? I find it difficult as there is no actually meter or indicator like with depth (unless im missing it) and not every gameplay situation will have pop-out or be best suited to test the limits so it can be difficult to test because of that.

It tends to change from game to game. If a game has lots of user interface stuff on the screen, you aren't going to want popout. If you do, objects are going to be popping out of the screen but they will also be covered by the UI. So your eyes will be telling you that the object is 10 inches from your face and it will be telling you that the health bar is covering up part of the object - but the health bar is 20 inches from your face. So now your brain has to figure out how something 20 inches away is covering up something that's only 10 inches away. It will probably do some odd bending of the images to try and resolve this and, if you persist in making it deal with such insanity, it will likely start to fight back by giving you a headache.



You're pretty new to this so, if I were you, I would just stick with the default settings for a couple of days. Let your head get used to the concept of the whole 3D thing. After that, do the following:



Get in some game where there are distant objects. The further away the better. Beware of using stars or clouds, though. Games sometimes cheat with those so they are actually just a few feet up. An open world RPG where you can see a landmark that you can really get to works well.



Now look at that distant object and crank up the depth. The object should get further and further away. With a monitor, you might be able to go all the way to 100% but, if you are sitting close to a larger screen, you'll likely start to see the distant object go strange on you. Back off on the depth so the object appears distant but not screwy. Then back off a little more just to be safe. (What you are trying to do here is find the point where your eyes are looking parallel at the two images. If you push the depth too high, the two images will get further apart than your two eyes, which isn't good.)



Next play with the convergence. As you've noted, this one is a bit tricky because there isn't an on-screen indicator. Worse yet, you sometimes need to change convergence a LOT to see any effect at all... then suddenly there's a lot of change. Essentially, convergence controls where your screen is in the world. If you bring the screen way back, nothing will ever pop out or even get close to the screen. If you push it forward, you'll get more popout and the world will seem closer to you. If you push the screen too far forward, things pop out so much that they would have to go cross-eyed to see them, which is never good.



For convergence, I try to find a "typical' situation. For RPGs, I'll get in a dialog with somebody. Then I'll move the screen to where I like it. For instance, if it's a shooter where I can see my gun sticking up from the bottom of the screen, I'll pull the screen position back. This way I don't have the weird situation where the edge of my screen seems to be covering up the lower part of my gun yet my gun seems to be closer to me than the bottom of the screen.



Please dont hate if i am missing the obvious as i am new to all of this 3d vision material haha. Any help would be appreciated or any links to guides of certain games, or just in general, that might be helpful. Thanks :)



OK, but you need to dress in purple and white then sing Wabash Cannonball for us. <evil grin>



Many a game guide here: http://www.solutiongaming.co.uk/index.html

#4
Posted 05/26/2011 03:00 AM   
Hey thanks for very helpful and informative posts guys. My last question is about the "dollhouse effect". How can you achieve it manually? I have noticed a few games have a more subtle version as the default and it looks incredible, I cant get over the feeling of amazement when looking into the game world and seeing all the models and objects like they were right in front of me and stretching out for miles. If I could get some assistance at how to best set this up that would be really appreciated. All i know so far is that depth needs to be at 100% which i have now adjusted to for most games, after that first step im lost on what i need to do.

[quote] OK, but you need to dress in purple and white then sing Wabash Cannonball for us. <evil grin> [/quote]

haha I found the Johnny Cash version of that song and danced away actually, I'm not the greatest singer. :p Don't want to be competing with Johnny Cash of course.
Hey thanks for very helpful and informative posts guys. My last question is about the "dollhouse effect". How can you achieve it manually? I have noticed a few games have a more subtle version as the default and it looks incredible, I cant get over the feeling of amazement when looking into the game world and seeing all the models and objects like they were right in front of me and stretching out for miles. If I could get some assistance at how to best set this up that would be really appreciated. All i know so far is that depth needs to be at 100% which i have now adjusted to for most games, after that first step im lost on what i need to do.



OK, but you need to dress in purple and white then sing Wabash Cannonball for us. <evil grin>




haha I found the Johnny Cash version of that song and danced away actually, I'm not the greatest singer. :p Don't want to be competing with Johnny Cash of course.

#5
Posted 05/26/2011 07:49 AM   
I personally don't like dollhouse aka cartoon effect. So I never change any convergence in games. When I look around in the game I want to feel it like it is real world and even much larger world not smaller one and I'm in it.. It makes me feel like my screen is bigger than imax :) If you didn't play Tomb Raider - Underworld with 100% depth yet you're missing sooo much believe me.
I personally don't like dollhouse aka cartoon effect. So I never change any convergence in games. When I look around in the game I want to feel it like it is real world and even much larger world not smaller one and I'm in it.. It makes me feel like my screen is bigger than imax :) If you didn't play Tomb Raider - Underworld with 100% depth yet you're missing sooo much believe me.

#6
Posted 05/26/2011 12:29 PM   
[quote name='jayhawker2' date='26 May 2011 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1306396150' post='1242477']
Hey thanks for very helpful and informative posts guys. My last question is about the "dollhouse effect". How can you achieve it manually? I have noticed a few games have a more subtle version as the default and it looks incredible, I cant get over the feeling of amazement when looking into the game world and seeing all the models and objects like they were right in front of me and stretching out for miles. If I could get some assistance at how to best set this up that would be really appreciated. All i know so far is that depth needs to be at 100% which i have now adjusted to for most games, after that first step im lost on what i need to do.
[/quote]

I quite like the effect myself. It's that curious effect unique to 3D users. Have a lookie [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=170208&view=findpost&p=1065969"]here[/url] for more info :)
[quote name='jayhawker2' date='26 May 2011 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1306396150' post='1242477']

Hey thanks for very helpful and informative posts guys. My last question is about the "dollhouse effect". How can you achieve it manually? I have noticed a few games have a more subtle version as the default and it looks incredible, I cant get over the feeling of amazement when looking into the game world and seeing all the models and objects like they were right in front of me and stretching out for miles. If I could get some assistance at how to best set this up that would be really appreciated. All i know so far is that depth needs to be at 100% which i have now adjusted to for most games, after that first step im lost on what i need to do.





I quite like the effect myself. It's that curious effect unique to 3D users. Have a lookie here for more info :)

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#7
Posted 05/26/2011 05:42 PM   
Oh! I thought the "doll house effect" was what happened when depth was too low. That makes everyone start looking like animated carboard cutouts (or "paper dolls").
Oh! I thought the "doll house effect" was what happened when depth was too low. That makes everyone start looking like animated carboard cutouts (or "paper dolls").

#8
Posted 05/27/2011 02:38 AM   
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