I bought the Nvidia 3D googles some months ago, and had been playing mostly old games. It was great i thought, and did not really bother with it not being perfect, the games was not made with this in mind.
Now though after had played both Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 in 3D, both new games i am beginning to get a bit frustrated that they are not any better then the old games. Is the ghosting ever going to be solved or is that something you have to live with when playing in 3d?
Also i thought someone said that Bioshock 2 should be made for 3D in mind, but it dont really feel that way.. is that coming in a patch maybe?
I bought the Nvidia 3D googles some months ago, and had been playing mostly old games. It was great i thought, and did not really bother with it not being perfect, the games was not made with this in mind.
Now though after had played both Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 in 3D, both new games i am beginning to get a bit frustrated that they are not any better then the old games. Is the ghosting ever going to be solved or is that something you have to live with when playing in 3d?
Also i thought someone said that Bioshock 2 should be made for 3D in mind, but it dont really feel that way.. is that coming in a patch maybe?
Far from answering you question, but I'll say this: no, I don't think we should resign to the idea that ghosting is inherent to 3D.
There are quite a few things than can be done: even faster displays (>120 Hz), better sincronization between glasses and display, faster and more uniform response (by that I mean all-at-once refreshing, not up/down scanning like seen in the 600 fps video).
With what we have right now (in terms of hardware) I don't think the problem can be completely eliminated, but software/firmware updates should at least alleviate it.
Regarding the newer games you mention and their 3D compatibility: given the fact that 3D vision has been around for a year and any serious game takes 2 years to develop (on average), I wouldn't expect full 3D compliance until late 2010/early 2011 if I were you.
Far from answering you question, but I'll say this: no, I don't think we should resign to the idea that ghosting is inherent to 3D.
There are quite a few things than can be done: even faster displays (>120 Hz), better sincronization between glasses and display, faster and more uniform response (by that I mean all-at-once refreshing, not up/down scanning like seen in the 600 fps video).
With what we have right now (in terms of hardware) I don't think the problem can be completely eliminated, but software/firmware updates should at least alleviate it.
Regarding the newer games you mention and their 3D compatibility: given the fact that 3D vision has been around for a year and any serious game takes 2 years to develop (on average), I wouldn't expect full 3D compliance until late 2010/early 2011 if I were you.
Ghosting depends largely on what sort of display you are using. DLPs have virtually no ghosting and plasmas and CRTs have quite a lot, with the LCD falling in between.
Ghosting depends largely on what sort of display you are using. DLPs have virtually no ghosting and plasmas and CRTs have quite a lot, with the LCD falling in between.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001301' date='Feb 14 2010, 09:01 PM']Ghosting depends largely on what sort of display you are using. DLPs have virtually no ghosting and plasmas and CRTs have quite a lot, with the LCD falling in between.[/quote]
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001301' date='Feb 14 2010, 09:01 PM']Ghosting depends largely on what sort of display you are using. DLPs have virtually no ghosting and plasmas and CRTs have quite a lot, with the LCD falling in between.
[quote name='mileafly' post='1001323' date='Feb 14 2010, 02:48 PM']I have the Samsung Syncmaster[/quote]
Well, if you want to eliminate ghosting, DLPs are good. LCDs aren't too bad as far as I am concerned, but I cut my teeth on CRT and so my LCD has little ghosting compared to that.
[quote name='mileafly' post='1001323' date='Feb 14 2010, 02:48 PM']I have the Samsung Syncmaster
Well, if you want to eliminate ghosting, DLPs are good. LCDs aren't too bad as far as I am concerned, but I cut my teeth on CRT and so my LCD has little ghosting compared to that.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
All i can say is, buy an 3d dlp projector. Presto, problem solved! ;) I had the samsung aswell but since i have my projector i'm not using it for 3d anymore.
All i can say is, buy an 3d dlp projector. Presto, problem solved! ;) I had the samsung aswell but since i have my projector i'm not using it for 3d anymore.
[quote name='bartdesign' post='1001389' date='Feb 14 2010, 11:51 PM']All i can say is, buy an 3d dlp projector. Presto, problem solved! ;) I had the samsung aswell but since i have my projector i'm not using it for 3d anymore.[/quote]
yeah but where are you going to get a projector with the resolution, sharpness and color gamut of a high end HD display? Oh, and one that costs less than 1000 dollars, preferably :D
Of all the projectors I've ever seen, only those used in 2K cinema produce images that really jump at you (I'm just talking about normal projection, forget 3D for a second).
[quote name='bartdesign' post='1001389' date='Feb 14 2010, 11:51 PM']All i can say is, buy an 3d dlp projector. Presto, problem solved! ;) I had the samsung aswell but since i have my projector i'm not using it for 3d anymore.
yeah but where are you going to get a projector with the resolution, sharpness and color gamut of a high end HD display? Oh, and one that costs less than 1000 dollars, preferably :D
Of all the projectors I've ever seen, only those used in 2K cinema produce images that really jump at you (I'm just talking about normal projection, forget 3D for a second).
I've seen 3D movies in 4k, and while it's a very clear presentation the 3D wasn't much more impressive than other 3D theaters I've been to. And imo, IMAX still is the most impressive when it comes to 3D due to the tall format and size. That said, I find home DLP projectors to have the best 3D image quality w/ virtually zero ghosting. IMAX, Sony 4k realD, and any other 3D theaters I've been to have had more cross-talk than my cheapo home Viewsonic PJ most likely since they are polarized vs shutter.
I've seen 3D movies in 4k, and while it's a very clear presentation the 3D wasn't much more impressive than other 3D theaters I've been to. And imo, IMAX still is the most impressive when it comes to 3D due to the tall format and size. That said, I find home DLP projectors to have the best 3D image quality w/ virtually zero ghosting. IMAX, Sony 4k realD, and any other 3D theaters I've been to have had more cross-talk than my cheapo home Viewsonic PJ most likely since they are polarized vs shutter.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001301' date='Feb 14 2010, 01:01 PM']Ghosting depends largely on what sort of display you are using. DLPs have virtually no ghosting and plasmas and CRTs have quite a lot, with the LCD falling in between.[/quote]
Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001301' date='Feb 14 2010, 01:01 PM']Ghosting depends largely on what sort of display you are using. DLPs have virtually no ghosting and plasmas and CRTs have quite a lot, with the LCD falling in between.
Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
[quote name='btdvox' post='1001477' date='Feb 14 2010, 09:05 PM']Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.[/quote]
I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.
[quote name='btdvox' post='1001477' date='Feb 14 2010, 09:05 PM']Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.
I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001485' date='Feb 14 2010, 08:32 PM']I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.[/quote]
I've heard of the green ghosting effect, but that is not perceptible by everyone. I think it has to do with the green elements having a longer persistence than the other color elements. I have never heard anyone say that LCD's outperform plasmas when it comes to 2d ghosting, however.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001485' date='Feb 14 2010, 08:32 PM']I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.
I've heard of the green ghosting effect, but that is not perceptible by everyone. I think it has to do with the green elements having a longer persistence than the other color elements. I have never heard anyone say that LCD's outperform plasmas when it comes to 2d ghosting, however.
[quote name='btdvox' post='1001477' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:05 PM']Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.[/quote]
It will be interesting to see which technology becomes the leader... I am making do with the 2233, but oh man, I am hanging out for something 27''-32'' ish, widescreen, brighter colours, better light vs dark....with improved ghosties.
[quote name='btdvox' post='1001477' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:05 PM']Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.
It will be interesting to see which technology becomes the leader... I am making do with the 2233, but oh man, I am hanging out for something 27''-32'' ish, widescreen, brighter colours, better light vs dark....with improved ghosties.
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.
The only way to fully get rid of ghosting is to have totally isolated displays for left and right eye. The only one I can think of that does that is head mounted displays.
Problem is that they are currently either way too expensive or they do not offer enough wide field of view.
I remember one that was talked about quite a lot a few years ago that at least is affordable, but the field of view is not that great:
The only way to fully get rid of ghosting is to have totally isolated displays for left and right eye. The only one I can think of that does that is head mounted displays.
Problem is that they are currently either way too expensive or they do not offer enough wide field of view.
I remember one that was talked about quite a lot a few years ago that at least is affordable, but the field of view is not that great:
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.[/quote]
If the nvidia glasses were the main issue you would get ghosting across the board with every type of screen. The fact that PJs and DLPs have a lot less ghosting than CRT/LCD tells us the screens are the main factor.
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.
If the nvidia glasses were the main issue you would get ghosting across the board with every type of screen. The fact that PJs and DLPs have a lot less ghosting than CRT/LCD tells us the screens are the main factor.
Now though after had played both Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 in 3D, both new games i am beginning to get a bit frustrated that they are not any better then the old games. Is the ghosting ever going to be solved or is that something you have to live with when playing in 3d?
Also i thought someone said that Bioshock 2 should be made for 3D in mind, but it dont really feel that way.. is that coming in a patch maybe?
Now though after had played both Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 in 3D, both new games i am beginning to get a bit frustrated that they are not any better then the old games. Is the ghosting ever going to be solved or is that something you have to live with when playing in 3d?
Also i thought someone said that Bioshock 2 should be made for 3D in mind, but it dont really feel that way.. is that coming in a patch maybe?
There are quite a few things than can be done: even faster displays (>120 Hz), better sincronization between glasses and display, faster and more uniform response (by that I mean all-at-once refreshing, not up/down scanning like seen in the 600 fps video).
With what we have right now (in terms of hardware) I don't think the problem can be completely eliminated, but software/firmware updates should at least alleviate it.
Regarding the newer games you mention and their 3D compatibility: given the fact that 3D vision has been around for a year and any serious game takes 2 years to develop (on average), I wouldn't expect full 3D compliance until late 2010/early 2011 if I were you.
There are quite a few things than can be done: even faster displays (>120 Hz), better sincronization between glasses and display, faster and more uniform response (by that I mean all-at-once refreshing, not up/down scanning like seen in the 600 fps video).
With what we have right now (in terms of hardware) I don't think the problem can be completely eliminated, but software/firmware updates should at least alleviate it.
Regarding the newer games you mention and their 3D compatibility: given the fact that 3D vision has been around for a year and any serious game takes 2 years to develop (on average), I wouldn't expect full 3D compliance until late 2010/early 2011 if I were you.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
I have the Samsung Syncmaster
I have the Samsung Syncmaster
Well, if you want to eliminate ghosting, DLPs are good. LCDs aren't too bad as far as I am concerned, but I cut my teeth on CRT and so my LCD has little ghosting compared to that.
Well, if you want to eliminate ghosting, DLPs are good. LCDs aren't too bad as far as I am concerned, but I cut my teeth on CRT and so my LCD has little ghosting compared to that.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
yeah but where are you going to get a projector with the resolution, sharpness and color gamut of a high end HD display? Oh, and one that costs less than 1000 dollars, preferably :D
Of all the projectors I've ever seen, only those used in 2K cinema produce images that really jump at you (I'm just talking about normal projection, forget 3D for a second).
yeah but where are you going to get a projector with the resolution, sharpness and color gamut of a high end HD display? Oh, and one that costs less than 1000 dollars, preferably :D
Of all the projectors I've ever seen, only those used in 2K cinema produce images that really jump at you (I'm just talking about normal projection, forget 3D for a second).
Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.
Why would Plasmas have more ghosting than LCD? Plasmas have the fastest response time out of all of the monitor technologies.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.[/quote]
I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.
I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.[/quote]
I've heard of the green ghosting effect, but that is not perceptible by everyone. I think it has to do with the green elements having a longer persistence than the other color elements. I have never heard anyone say that LCD's outperform plasmas when it comes to 2d ghosting, however.
The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.
I've heard of the green ghosting effect, but that is not perceptible by everyone. I think it has to do with the green elements having a longer persistence than the other color elements. I have never heard anyone say that LCD's outperform plasmas when it comes to 2d ghosting, however.
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.[/quote]
It will be interesting to see which technology becomes the leader... I am making do with the 2233, but oh man, I am hanging out for something 27''-32'' ish, widescreen, brighter colours, better light vs dark....with improved ghosties.
......Hurry up industry. :lol:
Their response time are below 0.1 ms.....
CRT should be a close next.
It will be interesting to see which technology becomes the leader... I am making do with the 2233, but oh man, I am hanging out for something 27''-32'' ish, widescreen, brighter colours, better light vs dark....with improved ghosties.
......Hurry up industry. :lol:
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.
Problem is that they are currently either way too expensive or they do not offer enough wide field of view.
I remember one that was talked about quite a lot a few years ago that at least is affordable, but the field of view is not that great:
[url="http://www.tdvision.com/tdvisor.php"]http://www.tdvision.com/tdvisor.php[/url]
/Linus
Problem is that they are currently either way too expensive or they do not offer enough wide field of view.
I remember one that was talked about quite a lot a few years ago that at least is affordable, but the field of view is not that great:
http://www.tdvision.com/tdvisor.php
/Linus
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.[/quote]
If the nvidia glasses were the main issue you would get ghosting across the board with every type of screen. The fact that PJs and DLPs have a lot less ghosting than CRT/LCD tells us the screens are the main factor.
Morsarge already pointed out it's not the plasma in this thread, I don't have any glasses but Nvidia 3d vision but have always thought they are majority of the issue anyway.
That will change soon where I will have options of different glasses.
Xpand apparently have little to no cross talk in a review I was watching the other day.
If the nvidia glasses were the main issue you would get ghosting across the board with every type of screen. The fact that PJs and DLPs have a lot less ghosting than CRT/LCD tells us the screens are the main factor.