[quote name='chiz' date='03 December 2011 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1322974350' post='1337251']
Certainly possible there's performance issues with the game in 3D but the fact you're getting as-expected performance in 2D with nearly 100% GPU utilization but less-than-expected performance in 3D again points to BF3 client being the problem. Remember, Frostbite 2 is handling all the stereo rendering here, so its not Nvidia's stereo service charged with keeping your GPUs fed, its the Frostbite 2 engine rendering both camera views for stereo 3D.
Its also possible you're running into VRAM limitations or some other setting holding you back. Have you tried disabling Ambient Occlusion?
Or your settings, because it certainly runs fine for me and just as expected, roughly half of my 2D performance. Maybe there is an issue with the 500 series and BF3 or the engine itself is limiting framerates in 3D so that higher end cards aren't fully taken advantage of, we'll see if next week's patch addresses any of this.
[/quote]
Agree that it's likely the engine and not the drivers but drivers can't be ruled out entirely either, especially since the build nvidia was given was not the final product. RE: vid ram, does 3D double the required VRAM as well? Otherwise I probably would have run into the same limitation in 2D, no?
edit: just tried changing the texture quality - which I assume would be the primary consumer of VRAM - all the way to low and it had ZERO effect on framerate. Something is FUBARED.
Patch details have been released, no mention of anything 3d or even performance in general for that matter. :(
[quote name='chiz' date='03 December 2011 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1322974350' post='1337251']
Certainly possible there's performance issues with the game in 3D but the fact you're getting as-expected performance in 2D with nearly 100% GPU utilization but less-than-expected performance in 3D again points to BF3 client being the problem. Remember, Frostbite 2 is handling all the stereo rendering here, so its not Nvidia's stereo service charged with keeping your GPUs fed, its the Frostbite 2 engine rendering both camera views for stereo 3D.
Its also possible you're running into VRAM limitations or some other setting holding you back. Have you tried disabling Ambient Occlusion?
Or your settings, because it certainly runs fine for me and just as expected, roughly half of my 2D performance. Maybe there is an issue with the 500 series and BF3 or the engine itself is limiting framerates in 3D so that higher end cards aren't fully taken advantage of, we'll see if next week's patch addresses any of this.
Agree that it's likely the engine and not the drivers but drivers can't be ruled out entirely either, especially since the build nvidia was given was not the final product. RE: vid ram, does 3D double the required VRAM as well? Otherwise I probably would have run into the same limitation in 2D, no?
edit: just tried changing the texture quality - which I assume would be the primary consumer of VRAM - all the way to low and it had ZERO effect on framerate. Something is FUBARED.
Patch details have been released, no mention of anything 3d or even performance in general for that matter. :(
[quote name='ds445' date='04 December 2011 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1322962784' post='1337214']
It's quite interesting to hear everyone's opinions on here. I believe that the purpose of this forum should be threefold:
1. To provide gamers who have already bought the necessary equipment and any certain game with feedback on how to fix common problems that may occur.
2. To provide interested potential gamers who are considering the investment into 3D Vision hardware and compatible games with feedback from the point of view of consumers who have already made those purchases and are willing to take the time to share their experiences.
3. To provide a communication channel between NVIDIA and its consumers concerning our wishes and thoughts to make an arguably already pretty good experience even better.
To each of these three groups, here's my take - I'm of course only a single individual with my own subjective opinion, so the more you guys on here keep adding your own subjective view points, the better for everyone involved!
1. To people considering buying Battlefield 3 because of it's 3D Vision compatibility: The overall experience is by no means bad, and the 3D experience is very solid with regards to image quality, in the sense that there are no obvious artifacts or elements rendering at completely the wrong depth, although some people are experiencing problems with the crosshairs and/or gunsights. However, the experience is far from the best 3D experiences available, for several reasons that include locked convergence (something that takes away from the overall experience considerably for many people, including myself) as well as strong performance problems that go far beyond the loss in FPS that is to be expected from stereo rendering. For these reasons, realize that the choice to rate this game as "3D Vision Ready" with five out of five stars is a pure marketing move by NVIDIA and does not represent the opinion of the vast majority of gamers who have tried it. You may well argue that everyone will have a different opinion on the quality of experience delivered by any given game and all ratings are subjective to a certain degree, but there are some games where the overall opinion is very strongly positive with very few complaints (again, take Skyrim as an example). This is not one of those games, and it's at the very least unfortunate that NVIDIA's own rating system seems to be influenced by marketing decisions and hence sometimes does not correlate well with the opinions held by the majority of gamers. This is of course NVIDIA's own choice, and it's true that they do not guarantee any objective or statistical criteria with their own rating decisions, but likewise they must be willing to then face some backlash from consumers unhappy with this. I spent $600 on a GTX 580 and BF3 and am not getting the experience that marketing suggested I would be getting, and hence I feel that this is the place for me to express my - admittedly subjective - unhappiness about this, as well as to inform others that are considering the same purchasing decision about these problems.
2. To the gamers looking for help with the problems: there seems to be no way yet of fixing the performance issues, which unfortunately seem most prevalent on NVIDIA's flagship GPUs (GTX 580 and 590), and also no way of unlocking convergence without disabling the native stereo implementation, which in turn causes other rendering problems to pop up. Unless NVIDIA or DICE provide us with further updates, it seems unlikely that the problems will be solved.
3. To NVIDIA - Andrew, as the dedicated contact person I'm addressing this to you directly: please look into these problems further and keep us updated on what to expect concerning problem fixes. Your support and feedback is much appreciated, and as much as we like to complain on here, we are aware that the direct consumer communication you provide us with is by no means guaranteed by most technology companies.
That being said, please also bring to the attention of both NVIDIA and the game developers you are working with that locking convergence is a very suboptimal choice that benefits no one and causes a lot of frustration. Getting the correct convergence is integral to the 3D experience for most of us gamers, and convergence is such a subjective choice that this is by no means a "one size fits all" type of situation. I completely fail to understand how removing an option could ever be superior to providing a default setting that is adjustable but perhaps even comes with a warning label so that only advanced users would consider changing it.
A big part of what makes the PC platform so great is the fact that anything is user-adjustable if one should wish to do so, and just locking such an important setting is short-sighted, patronizing and detrimental to the overall experience. Considering the substantial cost of the hardware required, it's safe to assume that most users of a (still relatively niche) technology like 3D Vision are experienced enough to handle a couple of basic adjustable options, so please encourage developers to stop with this practice of locking convergence.
If you truly wish to further push 3D Vision as the superior platform in the 3D gaming market (considering the limited availability of 3D-compatible games and the limited processing power of current-generation consoles as well as the numerous problems AMD's HD3D as well as DDD's TriDef are still facing - and not to mention the premium pricing of associated NVIDIA hardware, it's safe to assume that's what NVIDIA would want to do), here's my suggestion that I believe most consumers would agree with: encourage developers to provide a high-performance, fully adjustable 3D experience from launch, focussing especially on the blockbuster titles gamers are most looking forward to, establish the "3D Vision Ready" seal of approval as a trusted sign of a 3D gaming experience that you can then also leverage as a carrot and stick type incentive for developers and be swift in your response to any problems that may arise. Don't just point fingers at developers - NVIDIA is marketing 3D Vision and using it as a platform to sell their hardware (as well as proprietary software such as the 3DTV Play utility), so please do stand up for your loyal customers that have placed their trust (and their hard-earned money) in your technology and act on their behalf and in their interest.
3D gaming can be such an incredible and immersive experience when done right, and I'm hopeful that these minor kinks can be worked out fairly easily if only NVIDIA are willing to take to heart the wishes of their loyal consumer base.
[/quote]
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
[quote name='ds445' date='04 December 2011 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1322962784' post='1337214']
It's quite interesting to hear everyone's opinions on here. I believe that the purpose of this forum should be threefold:
1. To provide gamers who have already bought the necessary equipment and any certain game with feedback on how to fix common problems that may occur.
2. To provide interested potential gamers who are considering the investment into 3D Vision hardware and compatible games with feedback from the point of view of consumers who have already made those purchases and are willing to take the time to share their experiences.
3. To provide a communication channel between NVIDIA and its consumers concerning our wishes and thoughts to make an arguably already pretty good experience even better.
To each of these three groups, here's my take - I'm of course only a single individual with my own subjective opinion, so the more you guys on here keep adding your own subjective view points, the better for everyone involved!
1. To people considering buying Battlefield 3 because of it's 3D Vision compatibility: The overall experience is by no means bad, and the 3D experience is very solid with regards to image quality, in the sense that there are no obvious artifacts or elements rendering at completely the wrong depth, although some people are experiencing problems with the crosshairs and/or gunsights. However, the experience is far from the best 3D experiences available, for several reasons that include locked convergence (something that takes away from the overall experience considerably for many people, including myself) as well as strong performance problems that go far beyond the loss in FPS that is to be expected from stereo rendering. For these reasons, realize that the choice to rate this game as "3D Vision Ready" with five out of five stars is a pure marketing move by NVIDIA and does not represent the opinion of the vast majority of gamers who have tried it. You may well argue that everyone will have a different opinion on the quality of experience delivered by any given game and all ratings are subjective to a certain degree, but there are some games where the overall opinion is very strongly positive with very few complaints (again, take Skyrim as an example). This is not one of those games, and it's at the very least unfortunate that NVIDIA's own rating system seems to be influenced by marketing decisions and hence sometimes does not correlate well with the opinions held by the majority of gamers. This is of course NVIDIA's own choice, and it's true that they do not guarantee any objective or statistical criteria with their own rating decisions, but likewise they must be willing to then face some backlash from consumers unhappy with this. I spent $600 on a GTX 580 and BF3 and am not getting the experience that marketing suggested I would be getting, and hence I feel that this is the place for me to express my - admittedly subjective - unhappiness about this, as well as to inform others that are considering the same purchasing decision about these problems.
2. To the gamers looking for help with the problems: there seems to be no way yet of fixing the performance issues, which unfortunately seem most prevalent on NVIDIA's flagship GPUs (GTX 580 and 590), and also no way of unlocking convergence without disabling the native stereo implementation, which in turn causes other rendering problems to pop up. Unless NVIDIA or DICE provide us with further updates, it seems unlikely that the problems will be solved.
3. To NVIDIA - Andrew, as the dedicated contact person I'm addressing this to you directly: please look into these problems further and keep us updated on what to expect concerning problem fixes. Your support and feedback is much appreciated, and as much as we like to complain on here, we are aware that the direct consumer communication you provide us with is by no means guaranteed by most technology companies.
That being said, please also bring to the attention of both NVIDIA and the game developers you are working with that locking convergence is a very suboptimal choice that benefits no one and causes a lot of frustration. Getting the correct convergence is integral to the 3D experience for most of us gamers, and convergence is such a subjective choice that this is by no means a "one size fits all" type of situation. I completely fail to understand how removing an option could ever be superior to providing a default setting that is adjustable but perhaps even comes with a warning label so that only advanced users would consider changing it.
A big part of what makes the PC platform so great is the fact that anything is user-adjustable if one should wish to do so, and just locking such an important setting is short-sighted, patronizing and detrimental to the overall experience. Considering the substantial cost of the hardware required, it's safe to assume that most users of a (still relatively niche) technology like 3D Vision are experienced enough to handle a couple of basic adjustable options, so please encourage developers to stop with this practice of locking convergence.
If you truly wish to further push 3D Vision as the superior platform in the 3D gaming market (considering the limited availability of 3D-compatible games and the limited processing power of current-generation consoles as well as the numerous problems AMD's HD3D as well as DDD's TriDef are still facing - and not to mention the premium pricing of associated NVIDIA hardware, it's safe to assume that's what NVIDIA would want to do), here's my suggestion that I believe most consumers would agree with: encourage developers to provide a high-performance, fully adjustable 3D experience from launch, focussing especially on the blockbuster titles gamers are most looking forward to, establish the "3D Vision Ready" seal of approval as a trusted sign of a 3D gaming experience that you can then also leverage as a carrot and stick type incentive for developers and be swift in your response to any problems that may arise. Don't just point fingers at developers - NVIDIA is marketing 3D Vision and using it as a platform to sell their hardware (as well as proprietary software such as the 3DTV Play utility), so please do stand up for your loyal customers that have placed their trust (and their hard-earned money) in your technology and act on their behalf and in their interest.
3D gaming can be such an incredible and immersive experience when done right, and I'm hopeful that these minor kinks can be worked out fairly easily if only NVIDIA are willing to take to heart the wishes of their loyal consumer base.
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
Asus P8Z68-V Pro; i5 2500k@4.3Ghz; Inno3d iChill X3 gtx 1070 ; 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz; Asus Xonar DX; Vertex 3 120Gb SSD + 1TB HDD; Corsair Tx750w; CoolerMaster Storm Scout Case ; Benq W700 720p 3D Vision Projector & 88 inch Screen, Sony 5.1 Home Cinema. HTC Vive
[quote name='Badelhas' date='04 December 2011 - 11:56 PM' timestamp='1323043018' post='1337633']
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
[/quote]
Cheers, and thanks to Stange as well - the more people on here come forward demanding a response to this from Andrew, the higher the chance this doesn't get lost or conveniently ignored, I'm hoping... also, if anyone disagrees, please post that as well - the more input from our side for NVIDIA, the better off we'll all be
[quote name='Badelhas' date='04 December 2011 - 11:56 PM' timestamp='1323043018' post='1337633']
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
Cheers, and thanks to Stange as well - the more people on here come forward demanding a response to this from Andrew, the higher the chance this doesn't get lost or conveniently ignored, I'm hoping... also, if anyone disagrees, please post that as well - the more input from our side for NVIDIA, the better off we'll all be
[quote name='Arioch' date='05 December 2011 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1323099601' post='1337883']
I'm not seeing any glitches like that since the 3D patch got released.
[/quote]
Neither am I - I suppose you're running an old pre-patch version?
[quote name='ds445' date='05 December 2011 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1323116201' post='1338012']
Neither am I - I suppose you're running an old pre-patch version?
[/quote]
Well, I downloaded the latest patch and I played the single-player in 'offline mode'. Although there is a 3D on/off option in the graphics menu, I'm afraid convergence is still locked - at least with the NVidia hotkeys.
Well, I downloaded the latest patch and I played the single-player in 'offline mode'. Although there is a 3D on/off option in the graphics menu, I'm afraid convergence is still locked - at least with the NVidia hotkeys.
[quote name='GordyMeow' date='06 December 2011 - 05:11 AM' timestamp='1323166295' post='1338315']
Hey... I think I figured out how to adjust convergence...
in the console, type the command "list" and there should be a list of commands that pop up, one of which being something like:
"RenderDevice.StereoConvergenceScale"
It's dynamic as well!
They did it.
Thanks DICE / NVidia!
EDIT: I set the value to about 3.75, to give you some idea of where to start, maybe.
[/quote]
Great find GordyMeow! Just checked it out myself briefly and can confirm DICE did expose Convergence controls in the console with the 12/6 update /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
There's actually 2 commands for Convergence now, DICE actually has a different convergence setting for ADS which is really the best way to handle 1st person 3D.
The commands are:
[list]
[*][b]renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale <float32>[/b] : this controls gun convergence settings (default is 1), the higher your depth setting, the lower you'll be able to set this before things start splitting in the near field, like your gun. Small value increments go a long way here, I could set this to about 2 at max depth before my gun started splitting too far.
[*][b]renderdevice.stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale <float32>[/b] : this controls how much convergence for your gun and crosshairs while in ADS-mode (aim down sights) only. I set this value to 0 (default is 1) and RDS/Holo was accurate even for distant objects with Convergence set from 2-3 and set to MAX depth.
[*][b]renderdevice.stereoseparationscale <float32>[/b] : this was an original command that functions similarly to standard convergence controls for objects further in the scene.
[*] just hit the tilde key ` next to 1 on your keyboard and start typing "render" and the console has a predictive input system that narrows down the cvars for you. Correct syntax is: renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale 2.4345
[/list]
Once you find settings you like and want to keep, you'll want to create a cfg file so your settings are loaded automatically.
[list]
[*]Go to your BF3.exe directory, probably something like %\\Origin Games\Battlefield 3
[*]Right-click, New > Text Document. Name it [b]User.cfg[/b]
[*]Open it up with notepad, add the two command line settings below and save:
[/list]
[code]
renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale 1.6 //<----- change that value to whatever you like and remove this comment in your file.
renderdevice.stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0
renderdevice.stereoseparationscale 1.3
[/code]
I attached some screenshots below to show the difference with stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0 and 1. Very clear difference there, I think this setting should always be 0 regardless of what depth and convergence you play with. The only downside is that you will get slight double-image when aiming at near field objects as discussed earlier, but this is a very small price to pay since it is much easier to aim/hit close objects anyways.
So there you have it, I will finally play through the Campaign now that 3D Vision is fully functional...if I can manage to pull myself away from Skyrim. :)
Thanks again to DICE and Nvidia (and Andrew) for sticking with it and getting 3D right in BF3...finally.
Great find GordyMeow! Just checked it out myself briefly and can confirm DICE did expose Convergence controls in the console with the 12/6 update /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
There's actually 2 commands for Convergence now, DICE actually has a different convergence setting for ADS which is really the best way to handle 1st person 3D.
The commands are:
renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale <float32> : this controls gun convergence settings (default is 1), the higher your depth setting, the lower you'll be able to set this before things start splitting in the near field, like your gun. Small value increments go a long way here, I could set this to about 2 at max depth before my gun started splitting too far.
renderdevice.stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale <float32> : this controls how much convergence for your gun and crosshairs while in ADS-mode (aim down sights) only. I set this value to 0 (default is 1) and RDS/Holo was accurate even for distant objects with Convergence set from 2-3 and set to MAX depth.
renderdevice.stereoseparationscale <float32> : this was an original command that functions similarly to standard convergence controls for objects further in the scene.
just hit the tilde key ` next to 1 on your keyboard and start typing "render" and the console has a predictive input system that narrows down the cvars for you. Correct syntax is: renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale 2.4345
Once you find settings you like and want to keep, you'll want to create a cfg file so your settings are loaded automatically.
Go to your BF3.exe directory, probably something like %\\Origin Games\Battlefield 3
Right-click, New > Text Document. Name it User.cfg
Open it up with notepad, add the two command line settings below and save:
renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale 1.6 //<----- change that value to whatever you like and remove this comment in your file.
renderdevice.stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0
renderdevice.stereoseparationscale 1.3
I attached some screenshots below to show the difference with stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0 and 1. Very clear difference there, I think this setting should always be 0 regardless of what depth and convergence you play with. The only downside is that you will get slight double-image when aiming at near field objects as discussed earlier, but this is a very small price to pay since it is much easier to aim/hit close objects anyways.
So there you have it, I will finally play through the Campaign now that 3D Vision is fully functional...if I can manage to pull myself away from Skyrim. :)
Thanks again to DICE and Nvidia (and Andrew) for sticking with it and getting 3D right in BF3...finally.
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all details in game set to off where possible or minimum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Now hoping for newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Anyway on and upwards from here (-:
Hi all
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all sett inset to off where possible or minamum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Also I'm sure newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice -ideally need a higher res
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all details in game set to off where possible or minimum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Now hoping for newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Anyway on and upwards from here (-:
Hi all
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all sett inset to off where possible or minamum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Also I'm sure newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice -ideally need a higher res
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Certainly possible there's performance issues with the game in 3D but the fact you're getting as-expected performance in 2D with nearly 100% GPU utilization but less-than-expected performance in 3D again points to BF3 client being the problem. Remember, Frostbite 2 is handling all the stereo rendering here, so its not Nvidia's stereo service charged with keeping your GPUs fed, its the Frostbite 2 engine rendering both camera views for stereo 3D.
Its also possible you're running into VRAM limitations or some other setting holding you back. Have you tried disabling Ambient Occlusion?
Or your settings, because it certainly runs fine for me and just as expected, roughly half of my 2D performance. Maybe there is an issue with the 500 series and BF3 or the engine itself is limiting framerates in 3D so that higher end cards aren't fully taken advantage of, we'll see if next week's patch addresses any of this.
[/quote]
Agree that it's likely the engine and not the drivers but drivers can't be ruled out entirely either, especially since the build nvidia was given was not the final product. RE: vid ram, does 3D double the required VRAM as well? Otherwise I probably would have run into the same limitation in 2D, no?
edit: just tried changing the texture quality - which I assume would be the primary consumer of VRAM - all the way to low and it had ZERO effect on framerate. Something is FUBARED.
Patch details have been released, no mention of anything 3d or even performance in general for that matter. :(
Certainly possible there's performance issues with the game in 3D but the fact you're getting as-expected performance in 2D with nearly 100% GPU utilization but less-than-expected performance in 3D again points to BF3 client being the problem. Remember, Frostbite 2 is handling all the stereo rendering here, so its not Nvidia's stereo service charged with keeping your GPUs fed, its the Frostbite 2 engine rendering both camera views for stereo 3D.
Its also possible you're running into VRAM limitations or some other setting holding you back. Have you tried disabling Ambient Occlusion?
Or your settings, because it certainly runs fine for me and just as expected, roughly half of my 2D performance. Maybe there is an issue with the 500 series and BF3 or the engine itself is limiting framerates in 3D so that higher end cards aren't fully taken advantage of, we'll see if next week's patch addresses any of this.
Agree that it's likely the engine and not the drivers but drivers can't be ruled out entirely either, especially since the build nvidia was given was not the final product. RE: vid ram, does 3D double the required VRAM as well? Otherwise I probably would have run into the same limitation in 2D, no?
edit: just tried changing the texture quality - which I assume would be the primary consumer of VRAM - all the way to low and it had ZERO effect on framerate. Something is FUBARED.
Patch details have been released, no mention of anything 3d or even performance in general for that matter. :(
i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard
It's quite interesting to hear everyone's opinions on here. I believe that the purpose of this forum should be threefold:
1. To provide gamers who have already bought the necessary equipment and any certain game with feedback on how to fix common problems that may occur.
2. To provide interested potential gamers who are considering the investment into 3D Vision hardware and compatible games with feedback from the point of view of consumers who have already made those purchases and are willing to take the time to share their experiences.
3. To provide a communication channel between NVIDIA and its consumers concerning our wishes and thoughts to make an arguably already pretty good experience even better.
To each of these three groups, here's my take - I'm of course only a single individual with my own subjective opinion, so the more you guys on here keep adding your own subjective view points, the better for everyone involved!
1. To people considering buying Battlefield 3 because of it's 3D Vision compatibility: The overall experience is by no means bad, and the 3D experience is very solid with regards to image quality, in the sense that there are no obvious artifacts or elements rendering at completely the wrong depth, although some people are experiencing problems with the crosshairs and/or gunsights. However, the experience is far from the best 3D experiences available, for several reasons that include locked convergence (something that takes away from the overall experience considerably for many people, including myself) as well as strong performance problems that go far beyond the loss in FPS that is to be expected from stereo rendering. For these reasons, realize that the choice to rate this game as "3D Vision Ready" with five out of five stars is a pure marketing move by NVIDIA and does not represent the opinion of the vast majority of gamers who have tried it. You may well argue that everyone will have a different opinion on the quality of experience delivered by any given game and all ratings are subjective to a certain degree, but there are some games where the overall opinion is very strongly positive with very few complaints (again, take Skyrim as an example). This is not one of those games, and it's at the very least unfortunate that NVIDIA's own rating system seems to be influenced by marketing decisions and hence sometimes does not correlate well with the opinions held by the majority of gamers. This is of course NVIDIA's own choice, and it's true that they do not guarantee any objective or statistical criteria with their own rating decisions, but likewise they must be willing to then face some backlash from consumers unhappy with this. I spent $600 on a GTX 580 and BF3 and am not getting the experience that marketing suggested I would be getting, and hence I feel that this is the place for me to express my - admittedly subjective - unhappiness about this, as well as to inform others that are considering the same purchasing decision about these problems.
2. To the gamers looking for help with the problems: there seems to be no way yet of fixing the performance issues, which unfortunately seem most prevalent on NVIDIA's flagship GPUs (GTX 580 and 590), and also no way of unlocking convergence without disabling the native stereo implementation, which in turn causes other rendering problems to pop up. Unless NVIDIA or DICE provide us with further updates, it seems unlikely that the problems will be solved.
3. To NVIDIA - Andrew, as the dedicated contact person I'm addressing this to you directly: please look into these problems further and keep us updated on what to expect concerning problem fixes. Your support and feedback is much appreciated, and as much as we like to complain on here, we are aware that the direct consumer communication you provide us with is by no means guaranteed by most technology companies.
That being said, please also bring to the attention of both NVIDIA and the game developers you are working with that locking convergence is a very suboptimal choice that benefits no one and causes a lot of frustration. Getting the correct convergence is integral to the 3D experience for most of us gamers, and convergence is such a subjective choice that this is by no means a "one size fits all" type of situation. I completely fail to understand how removing an option could ever be superior to providing a default setting that is adjustable but perhaps even comes with a warning label so that only advanced users would consider changing it.
A big part of what makes the PC platform so great is the fact that anything is user-adjustable if one should wish to do so, and just locking such an important setting is short-sighted, patronizing and detrimental to the overall experience. Considering the substantial cost of the hardware required, it's safe to assume that most users of a (still relatively niche) technology like 3D Vision are experienced enough to handle a couple of basic adjustable options, so please encourage developers to stop with this practice of locking convergence.
If you truly wish to further push 3D Vision as the superior platform in the 3D gaming market (considering the limited availability of 3D-compatible games and the limited processing power of current-generation consoles as well as the numerous problems AMD's HD3D as well as DDD's TriDef are still facing - and not to mention the premium pricing of associated NVIDIA hardware, it's safe to assume that's what NVIDIA would want to do), here's my suggestion that I believe most consumers would agree with: encourage developers to provide a high-performance, fully adjustable 3D experience from launch, focussing especially on the blockbuster titles gamers are most looking forward to, establish the "3D Vision Ready" seal of approval as a trusted sign of a 3D gaming experience that you can then also leverage as a carrot and stick type incentive for developers and be swift in your response to any problems that may arise. Don't just point fingers at developers - NVIDIA is marketing 3D Vision and using it as a platform to sell their hardware (as well as proprietary software such as the 3DTV Play utility), so please do stand up for your loyal customers that have placed their trust (and their hard-earned money) in your technology and act on their behalf and in their interest.
3D gaming can be such an incredible and immersive experience when done right, and I'm hopeful that these minor kinks can be worked out fairly easily if only NVIDIA are willing to take to heart the wishes of their loyal consumer base.
[/quote]
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
It's quite interesting to hear everyone's opinions on here. I believe that the purpose of this forum should be threefold:
1. To provide gamers who have already bought the necessary equipment and any certain game with feedback on how to fix common problems that may occur.
2. To provide interested potential gamers who are considering the investment into 3D Vision hardware and compatible games with feedback from the point of view of consumers who have already made those purchases and are willing to take the time to share their experiences.
3. To provide a communication channel between NVIDIA and its consumers concerning our wishes and thoughts to make an arguably already pretty good experience even better.
To each of these three groups, here's my take - I'm of course only a single individual with my own subjective opinion, so the more you guys on here keep adding your own subjective view points, the better for everyone involved!
1. To people considering buying Battlefield 3 because of it's 3D Vision compatibility: The overall experience is by no means bad, and the 3D experience is very solid with regards to image quality, in the sense that there are no obvious artifacts or elements rendering at completely the wrong depth, although some people are experiencing problems with the crosshairs and/or gunsights. However, the experience is far from the best 3D experiences available, for several reasons that include locked convergence (something that takes away from the overall experience considerably for many people, including myself) as well as strong performance problems that go far beyond the loss in FPS that is to be expected from stereo rendering. For these reasons, realize that the choice to rate this game as "3D Vision Ready" with five out of five stars is a pure marketing move by NVIDIA and does not represent the opinion of the vast majority of gamers who have tried it. You may well argue that everyone will have a different opinion on the quality of experience delivered by any given game and all ratings are subjective to a certain degree, but there are some games where the overall opinion is very strongly positive with very few complaints (again, take Skyrim as an example). This is not one of those games, and it's at the very least unfortunate that NVIDIA's own rating system seems to be influenced by marketing decisions and hence sometimes does not correlate well with the opinions held by the majority of gamers. This is of course NVIDIA's own choice, and it's true that they do not guarantee any objective or statistical criteria with their own rating decisions, but likewise they must be willing to then face some backlash from consumers unhappy with this. I spent $600 on a GTX 580 and BF3 and am not getting the experience that marketing suggested I would be getting, and hence I feel that this is the place for me to express my - admittedly subjective - unhappiness about this, as well as to inform others that are considering the same purchasing decision about these problems.
2. To the gamers looking for help with the problems: there seems to be no way yet of fixing the performance issues, which unfortunately seem most prevalent on NVIDIA's flagship GPUs (GTX 580 and 590), and also no way of unlocking convergence without disabling the native stereo implementation, which in turn causes other rendering problems to pop up. Unless NVIDIA or DICE provide us with further updates, it seems unlikely that the problems will be solved.
3. To NVIDIA - Andrew, as the dedicated contact person I'm addressing this to you directly: please look into these problems further and keep us updated on what to expect concerning problem fixes. Your support and feedback is much appreciated, and as much as we like to complain on here, we are aware that the direct consumer communication you provide us with is by no means guaranteed by most technology companies.
That being said, please also bring to the attention of both NVIDIA and the game developers you are working with that locking convergence is a very suboptimal choice that benefits no one and causes a lot of frustration. Getting the correct convergence is integral to the 3D experience for most of us gamers, and convergence is such a subjective choice that this is by no means a "one size fits all" type of situation. I completely fail to understand how removing an option could ever be superior to providing a default setting that is adjustable but perhaps even comes with a warning label so that only advanced users would consider changing it.
A big part of what makes the PC platform so great is the fact that anything is user-adjustable if one should wish to do so, and just locking such an important setting is short-sighted, patronizing and detrimental to the overall experience. Considering the substantial cost of the hardware required, it's safe to assume that most users of a (still relatively niche) technology like 3D Vision are experienced enough to handle a couple of basic adjustable options, so please encourage developers to stop with this practice of locking convergence.
If you truly wish to further push 3D Vision as the superior platform in the 3D gaming market (considering the limited availability of 3D-compatible games and the limited processing power of current-generation consoles as well as the numerous problems AMD's HD3D as well as DDD's TriDef are still facing - and not to mention the premium pricing of associated NVIDIA hardware, it's safe to assume that's what NVIDIA would want to do), here's my suggestion that I believe most consumers would agree with: encourage developers to provide a high-performance, fully adjustable 3D experience from launch, focussing especially on the blockbuster titles gamers are most looking forward to, establish the "3D Vision Ready" seal of approval as a trusted sign of a 3D gaming experience that you can then also leverage as a carrot and stick type incentive for developers and be swift in your response to any problems that may arise. Don't just point fingers at developers - NVIDIA is marketing 3D Vision and using it as a platform to sell their hardware (as well as proprietary software such as the 3DTV Play utility), so please do stand up for your loyal customers that have placed their trust (and their hard-earned money) in your technology and act on their behalf and in their interest.
3D gaming can be such an incredible and immersive experience when done right, and I'm hopeful that these minor kinks can be worked out fairly easily if only NVIDIA are willing to take to heart the wishes of their loyal consumer base.
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
Asus P8Z68-V Pro; i5 2500k@4.3Ghz; Inno3d iChill X3 gtx 1070 ; 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz; Asus Xonar DX; Vertex 3 120Gb SSD + 1TB HDD; Corsair Tx750w; CoolerMaster Storm Scout Case ; Benq W700 720p 3D Vision Projector & 88 inch Screen, Sony 5.1 Home Cinema. HTC Vive
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
[/quote]
Cheers, and thanks to Stange as well - the more people on here come forward demanding a response to this from Andrew, the higher the chance this doesn't get lost or conveniently ignored, I'm hoping... also, if anyone disagrees, please post that as well - the more input from our side for NVIDIA, the better off we'll all be
I agree with you 100%. Very well put, cheers.
Andrew: Can you please give us your thoughs on this input from "ds445"?
Thanks in advance.
Andre
Cheers, and thanks to Stange as well - the more people on here come forward demanding a response to this from Andrew, the higher the chance this doesn't get lost or conveniently ignored, I'm hoping... also, if anyone disagrees, please post that as well - the more input from our side for NVIDIA, the better off we'll all be
Wasn't that screenshot taken using the hack to enable 3D before DICE implemented 3D in their released version of Battlefield 3?
photios
Wasn't that screenshot taken using the hack to enable 3D before DICE implemented 3D in their released version of Battlefield 3?
photios
I'm not seeing any glitches like that since the 3D patch got released.
[/quote]
Neither am I - I suppose you're running an old pre-patch version?
I'm not seeing any glitches like that since the 3D patch got released.
Neither am I - I suppose you're running an old pre-patch version?
Neither am I - I suppose you're running an old pre-patch version?
[/quote]
Probably a pirated version.
Neither am I - I suppose you're running an old pre-patch version?
Probably a pirated version.
i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard
in the console, type the command "list" and there should be a list of commands that pop up, one of which being something like:
"RenderDevice.StereoConvergenceScale"
It's dynamic as well!
They did it.
Thanks DICE / NVidia!
EDIT: I set the value to about 3.75, to give you some idea of where to start, maybe.
in the console, type the command "list" and there should be a list of commands that pop up, one of which being something like:
"RenderDevice.StereoConvergenceScale"
It's dynamic as well!
They did it.
Thanks DICE / NVidia!
EDIT: I set the value to about 3.75, to give you some idea of where to start, maybe.
Hey... I think I figured out how to adjust convergence...
in the console, type the command "list" and there should be a list of commands that pop up, one of which being something like:
"RenderDevice.StereoConvergenceScale"
It's dynamic as well!
They did it.
Thanks DICE / NVidia!
EDIT: I set the value to about 3.75, to give you some idea of where to start, maybe.
[/quote]
Nice find! I'll try this out tonight.
Hey... I think I figured out how to adjust convergence...
in the console, type the command "list" and there should be a list of commands that pop up, one of which being something like:
"RenderDevice.StereoConvergenceScale"
It's dynamic as well!
They did it.
Thanks DICE / NVidia!
EDIT: I set the value to about 3.75, to give you some idea of where to start, maybe.
Nice find! I'll try this out tonight.
i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard
There's actually 2 commands for Convergence now, DICE actually has a different convergence setting for ADS which is really the best way to handle 1st person 3D.
The commands are:
[list]
[*][b]renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale <float32>[/b] : this controls gun convergence settings (default is 1), the higher your depth setting, the lower you'll be able to set this before things start splitting in the near field, like your gun. Small value increments go a long way here, I could set this to about 2 at max depth before my gun started splitting too far.
[*][b]renderdevice.stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale <float32>[/b] : this controls how much convergence for your gun and crosshairs while in ADS-mode (aim down sights) only. I set this value to 0 (default is 1) and RDS/Holo was accurate even for distant objects with Convergence set from 2-3 and set to MAX depth.
[*][b]renderdevice.stereoseparationscale <float32>[/b] : this was an original command that functions similarly to standard convergence controls for objects further in the scene.
[*] just hit the tilde key ` next to 1 on your keyboard and start typing "render" and the console has a predictive input system that narrows down the cvars for you. Correct syntax is: renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale 2.4345
[/list]
Once you find settings you like and want to keep, you'll want to create a cfg file so your settings are loaded automatically.
[list]
[*]Go to your BF3.exe directory, probably something like %\\Origin Games\Battlefield 3
[*]Right-click, New > Text Document. Name it [b]User.cfg[/b]
[*]Open it up with notepad, add the two command line settings below and save:
[/list]
[code]
renderdevice.stereoconvergencescale 1.6 //<----- change that value to whatever you like and remove this comment in your file.
renderdevice.stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0
renderdevice.stereoseparationscale 1.3
[/code]
I attached some screenshots below to show the difference with stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0 and 1. Very clear difference there, I think this setting should always be 0 regardless of what depth and convergence you play with. The only downside is that you will get slight double-image when aiming at near field objects as discussed earlier, but this is a very small price to pay since it is much easier to aim/hit close objects anyways.
So there you have it, I will finally play through the Campaign now that 3D Vision is fully functional...if I can manage to pull myself away from Skyrim. :)
Thanks again to DICE and Nvidia (and Andrew) for sticking with it and getting 3D right in BF3...finally.
There's actually 2 commands for Convergence now, DICE actually has a different convergence setting for ADS which is really the best way to handle 1st person 3D.
The commands are:
Once you find settings you like and want to keep, you'll want to create a cfg file so your settings are loaded automatically.
I attached some screenshots below to show the difference with stereosoldierzoomconvergencescale 0 and 1. Very clear difference there, I think this setting should always be 0 regardless of what depth and convergence you play with. The only downside is that you will get slight double-image when aiming at near field objects as discussed earlier, but this is a very small price to pay since it is much easier to aim/hit close objects anyways.
So there you have it, I will finally play through the Campaign now that 3D Vision is fully functional...if I can manage to pull myself away from Skyrim. :)
Thanks again to DICE and Nvidia (and Andrew) for sticking with it and getting 3D right in BF3...finally.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all details in game set to off where possible or minimum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Now hoping for newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Anyway on and upwards from here (-:
Hi all
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all sett inset to off where possible or minamum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Also I'm sure newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice -ideally need a higher res
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Anyway on and upwards from here (-:
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all details in game set to off where possible or minimum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Now hoping for newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Anyway on and upwards from here (-:
Hi all
I can finally play now, in 3d surround (tripple screen ),
Although resolution is 3849x721 ( a tad low ) and all sett inset to off where possible or minamum except shadows set to medium
I'm getting with these settings a near solid 3d vision fps of 60fps (3d set to 120 etc )
Really happy I can play now, bf3 first impressions really really super.
Also I'm sure newer optimised drivers from nvidia + further optimisations from dice -ideally need a higher res
I must admit I'm really surprised what such a mess it was released in, tripple screen 3d etc is a total showcase for bf3 and for nvidia ( and for the pc ! )
It really spoils the reputation of thte pc (as well as nvidia) & the dice/ea situations like this.
Anyway on and upwards from here (-: