1920 X 1080 @120HZ IN 3d yes!!
  17 / 18    
Well done Russell! :) The blue ghosting is because the colour blue is the first or last colour to sync with the frame on the DLP colour wheel - I fixed exactly this with my ghosting removal circuit circa year 2005 on a BenQ 60Hz non 3D projector - you will absolutely get 100% perfect 3DV once you fine tune the timing! I think you have made to work the first real universal 3D 4K / 120Hz 1080p projector in the world! Really happy for you, man! All the best! :D
Well done Russell! :)

The blue ghosting is because the colour blue is the first or last colour to sync with the frame on the DLP colour wheel - I fixed exactly this with my ghosting removal circuit circa year 2005 on a BenQ 60Hz non 3D projector - you will absolutely get 100% perfect 3DV once you fine tune the timing!

I think you have made to work the first real universal 3D 4K / 120Hz 1080p projector in the world!

Really happy for you, man! All the best! :D

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 01/04/2019 11:36 PM   
Congratulations Russell! One thing I haven't quite understood is how you made your Xpand glasses sync? Does they sync with the 3D Vision emitter? Which monitor ID did you exactly use? Maybe I'll also retry with my projector if I can get my 3D Vision glasses to work correctly.
Congratulations Russell!

One thing I haven't quite understood is how you made your Xpand glasses sync? Does they sync with the 3D Vision emitter?

Which monitor ID did you exactly use? Maybe I'll also retry with my projector if I can get my 3D Vision glasses to work correctly.

ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
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Posted 01/05/2019 12:01 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Well done Russell! :) The blue ghosting is because the colour blue is the first or last colour to sync with the frame on the DLP colour wheel - I fixed exactly this with my ghosting removal circuit circa year 2005 on a BenQ 60Hz non 3D projector - you will absolutely get 100% perfect 3DV once you fine tune the timing! I think you have made to work the first real universal 3D 4K / 120Hz 1080p projector in the world! Really happy for you, man! All the best! :D [/quote] Thanks :-) Like I said though, a bit more work to do but very interesting that you had the same issue. More a combination of perseverance than skill, but it shows it can be done :-)
RAGEdemon said:Well done Russell! :)

The blue ghosting is because the colour blue is the first or last colour to sync with the frame on the DLP colour wheel - I fixed exactly this with my ghosting removal circuit circa year 2005 on a BenQ 60Hz non 3D projector - you will absolutely get 100% perfect 3DV once you fine tune the timing!

I think you have made to work the first real universal 3D 4K / 120Hz 1080p projector in the world!

Really happy for you, man! All the best! :D



Thanks :-) Like I said though, a bit more work to do but very interesting that you had the same issue.
More a combination of perseverance than skill, but it shows it can be done :-)

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/05/2019 12:17 AM   
[quote="Pauldusler"]Congratulations Russell! One thing I haven't quite understood is how you made your Xpand glasses sync? Does they sync with the 3D Vision emitter? Which monitor ID did you exactly use? Maybe I'll also retry with my projector if I can get my 3D Vision glasses to work correctly.[/quote] Yes. The reason I originally bought the glasses is because they work with nvidia IR protocol plus other active 3d tvs. Eventually they did release the app and firmware to adjust the shutter timing and I was hoping to use that functionality to reduce crosstalk on my pre and post light boost screens, but the results were poor and then they released firmware which broke compatibility with my LG tv. Ever since then they just sat on the shelf unused. I used your uhd40 with dsr edit. I did a full import into CRU as it's easier than switching edi files. The ID in it is OPT...something, it's not an ID which appears in the nvtimings.ini file. Sorry it's late and I'm writing this on a tablet!
Pauldusler said:Congratulations Russell!

One thing I haven't quite understood is how you made your Xpand glasses sync? Does they sync with the 3D Vision emitter?

Which monitor ID did you exactly use? Maybe I'll also retry with my projector if I can get my 3D Vision glasses to work correctly.


Yes. The reason I originally bought the glasses is because they work with nvidia IR protocol plus other active 3d tvs. Eventually they did release the app and firmware to adjust the shutter timing and I was hoping to use that functionality to reduce crosstalk on my pre and post light boost screens, but the results were poor and then they released firmware which broke compatibility with my LG tv. Ever since then they just sat on the shelf unused.

I used your uhd40 with dsr edit. I did a full import into CRU as it's easier than switching edi files. The ID in it is OPT...something, it's not an ID which appears in the nvtimings.ini file.

Sorry it's late and I'm writing this on a tablet!

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/05/2019 12:26 AM   
Congrats! BTW I think we are going to have one more amazing display device for 3d vision. 4k this time! LG just announced that 2019 oleds are going to fully support hdmi 2.1 and 4k @ 120hz. And whats even better - have black frame insertion on top of that as well as low latence (and VRR) mode as well. Now my guess is - that even with hdmi 2.0 we will be able to set 4k @ 120hz sdr resolution just fine (with 4:2:0), and then use crt mode to output perfect active 3d at full 4k. Black frame insertion should help with making synchronization way easier, as well as reducing motion persistence blur.
Congrats! BTW I think we are going to have one more amazing display device for 3d vision. 4k this time! LG just announced that 2019 oleds are going to fully support hdmi 2.1 and 4k @ 120hz. And whats even better - have black frame insertion on top of that as well as low latence (and VRR) mode as well.

Now my guess is - that even with hdmi 2.0 we will be able to set 4k @ 120hz sdr resolution just fine (with 4:2:0), and then use crt mode to output perfect active 3d at full 4k. Black frame insertion should help with making synchronization way easier, as well as reducing motion persistence blur.

Posted 01/05/2019 11:38 AM   
Yes, I think you're right, I've been reading about the 2019 oleds and agree with everything you said. Fingers crossed, although I dread to think what the initial cost will be. Will probably have to wait another year for them to be reasonably priced.
Yes, I think you're right, I've been reading about the 2019 oleds and agree with everything you said.
Fingers crossed, although I dread to think what the initial cost will be. Will probably have to wait another year for them to be reasonably priced.

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/05/2019 11:54 AM   
Active 3D Stereo on DLP projector - brilliant picture with zero ghosting and zero flickering.. Passive 3D Stereo on LG 4K-3D OLED TV - brilliant sharp picture with а little bit ghosting... Active 3D Stereo on TV - terrible ghosting and flickering... so I would not feed special hopes for new LG TV of 2019
Active 3D Stereo on DLP projector - brilliant picture with zero ghosting and zero flickering..
Passive 3D Stereo on LG 4K-3D OLED TV - brilliant sharp picture with а little bit ghosting...
Active 3D Stereo on TV - terrible ghosting and flickering...
so I would not feed special hopes for new LG TV of 2019

4K3D on passive LG OLED 4K TV 65C6V, GTX 1080 Ti, Win 8.1 64 Pro, i7-7700, 3D-Vision 2 on Benq LW61-LED PJ. HTC Vive. Panasonic Z-10000 3D Camcorder

Posted 01/05/2019 03:13 PM   
But as you know, OLED pixel transition times are tiny, much faster than any LCD. So with BFI it might be possible to get much closer to DLP. But don't worry, I'm not getting my hopes up either.. yet.
But as you know, OLED pixel transition times are tiny, much faster than any LCD. So with BFI it might be possible to get much closer to DLP.
But don't worry, I'm not getting my hopes up either.. yet.

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/05/2019 04:19 PM   
Bad news, there still seems to be a desync issue. I hadn't noticed it before as it's *really* slow, as in over the course of many minutes. It's only come to light after some more experimentation last night, as I couldn't understand why the Nvidia glasses seemed to be working almost perfectly all of a sudden. Help explain why I've had such difficulty adjusting the timing of the other glasses. One step forwards 2 steps back it seems, although I'm still not ready to give up yet. The process takes a long time though, especially with the wierd stuff windows does with refresh rates. For example, if I try and choose 119Hz even once, then Widows always tries to reset the display refresh to 119Hz every time I exit the 3d test, even if everything has been reset to 120Hz. I also spent a few hours over the weekend looking at ini files and reg keys etc. but to no avail. However, it still seems that the rate of desync can be modified by changing from 119-120hz does give me a tiny hope that something is possible. There's also the fact that I have a very complicated display chain as I have multiple displays and an AVR in the middle. I need to go back to basics...
Bad news, there still seems to be a desync issue. I hadn't noticed it before as it's *really* slow, as in over the course of many minutes.
It's only come to light after some more experimentation last night, as I couldn't understand why the Nvidia glasses seemed to be working almost perfectly all of a sudden.
Help explain why I've had such difficulty adjusting the timing of the other glasses.

One step forwards 2 steps back it seems, although I'm still not ready to give up yet.
The process takes a long time though, especially with the wierd stuff windows does with refresh rates. For example, if I try and choose 119Hz even once, then Widows always tries to reset the display refresh to 119Hz every time I exit the 3d test, even if everything has been reset to 120Hz.

I also spent a few hours over the weekend looking at ini files and reg keys etc. but to no avail. However, it still seems that the rate of desync can be modified by changing from 119-120hz does give me a tiny hope that something is possible.

There's also the fact that I have a very complicated display chain as I have multiple displays and an AVR in the middle. I need to go back to basics...

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/07/2019 06:15 PM   
I recall a bat or app that was used for getting the exact Hz dialed in for true Blue-ray playback. Perhaps you could mod it to a desired framerate. I think I linked it in a thread by GibsonRed, I'll try to find it Also, you could try some things in this article to see if frames are stalling. https://developer.nvidia.com/content/are-you-running-out-video-memory-detecting-video-memory-overcommitment-using-gpuview Skip down to Appendix: How To Capture a GPUView Trace There was also that force clock thing from SlySoft, but I think it was only for video playback. Edit: It wasn't in the thread by [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/767088/]GibsonRed[/url], try searching the forums for 23.976hz or Google. BTW, did you try 121Hz and is all of the Post Processing on the Projector turned off? The SlySoft thing was Reclock EDIT: It wasn't an app or bat. It just came to me that the guy trimmed his porches to get the refresh rate dialed in. Also have you tried using CVT Reduced Blank in a Custom Resolution Profile?
I recall a bat or app that was used for getting the exact Hz dialed in for true Blue-ray playback. Perhaps you could mod it to a desired framerate.

I think I linked it in a thread by GibsonRed, I'll try to find it

Also, you could try some things in this article to see if frames are stalling.

https://developer.nvidia.com/content/are-you-running-out-video-memory-detecting-video-memory-overcommitment-using-gpuview

Skip down to Appendix: How To Capture a GPUView Trace

There was also that force clock thing from SlySoft, but I think it was only for video playback.

Edit: It wasn't in the thread by GibsonRed, try searching the forums for 23.976hz or Google.

BTW, did you try 121Hz and is all of the Post Processing on the Projector turned off?

The SlySoft thing was Reclock

EDIT: It wasn't an app or bat. It just came to me that the guy trimmed his porches to get the refresh rate dialed in.

Also have you tried using CVT Reduced Blank in a Custom Resolution Profile?

Posted 01/07/2019 06:40 PM   
Ok, after a trip down the wrong Rabbit Hole... These are the posts I was thinking of that forced 23.976 Hz, twas not a bat or app :( [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/454178/geforce-drivers/windows-7-driver-set-wrong-frequency-to-hdtv-nm-full-hd-playback-perfect-natural-motion-cant-work-w/post/3229988/#3229988[/url] [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/460002/geforce-drivers/how-to-get-perfect-23-976-fps/post/3269035/#3269035[/url]
Hi D-Man :-) I've tried 119Hz, also tried going down to things like 119.96, but the problem is that I don't know exactly what the projector is doing. If I set Windows to 119Hz, I get a stable output on the projector but the OSD says 120Hz. It may be that it's actually running at 119Hz in that scenario but the firmware is rounding it up on the OSD, hard to tell. Blurbusters UFO test and https://www.displayhz.com/ do purport to show the actual real refresh rate. The thing is, at the moment both of them say 60Hz rather than 120Hz, even now when I'm just using 3d vision monitors set to 2d mode @ 120Hz, so I don't know what the problem is there. At one point on my first cycle of testing I was able to get the UFO test to show 120Hz on the projector but I don't know what has changed. I've just spent a couple of hours reading about external sync circuits and vesa cables.. Stuff like : https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9790 I know Rage built his own timing circuit, I managed to find the original thread on MTBS3D :-) I'll keep trying because it feels close but far away at the same time. I did have all sorts of other crazy ideas, like if you could somehow inject a full white screen flash into a game, which should act as a fake DLP flash and activate DLP glasses straight from the projector. Or, try a custom RF emitter and buy the RF dongle for my XpanD glasses.
Hi D-Man :-)

I've tried 119Hz, also tried going down to things like 119.96, but the problem is that I don't know exactly what the projector is doing. If I set Windows to 119Hz, I get a stable output on the projector but the OSD says 120Hz. It may be that it's actually running at 119Hz in that scenario but the firmware is rounding it up on the OSD, hard to tell.

Blurbusters UFO test and https://www.displayhz.com/ do purport to show the actual real refresh rate. The thing is, at the moment both of them say 60Hz rather than 120Hz, even now when I'm just using 3d vision monitors set to 2d mode @ 120Hz, so I don't know what the problem is there.

At one point on my first cycle of testing I was able to get the UFO test to show 120Hz on the projector but I don't know what has changed.

I've just spent a couple of hours reading about external sync circuits and vesa cables..
Stuff like : https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9790
I know Rage built his own timing circuit, I managed to find the original thread on MTBS3D :-)

I'll keep trying because it feels close but far away at the same time.

I did have all sorts of other crazy ideas, like if you could somehow inject a full white screen flash into a game, which should act as a fake DLP flash and activate DLP glasses straight from the projector.
Or, try a custom RF emitter and buy the RF dongle for my XpanD glasses.

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/07/2019 07:39 PM   
Monster Vision makes some glasses that have adjustable timings, they are rebranded from RealD or something like that. If you have a Vesa port and manufacturer /3rd party emitter, these could do the trick. They are cheap now and discontinued AFAIK, be sure to charge first, hopefully they are not DOA. I've been thinking about buying a pair or two, just to have.
Monster Vision makes some glasses that have adjustable timings, they are rebranded from RealD or something like that. If you have a Vesa port and manufacturer /3rd party emitter, these could do the trick.

They are cheap now and discontinued AFAIK, be sure to charge first, hopefully they are not DOA.

I've been thinking about buying a pair or two, just to have.

Posted 01/07/2019 07:58 PM   
Hi Russell, If I recall, the difference in refresh for a few minutes will be in the range of +/- 0.01 Hz;- +1 or -1Hz is too big. To change the refresh at such small increments is difficult as one cannot do it directly - one has to change the pixel and/or line parameters by 1 up and down to change the resulting refresh by some fractionally small margin. I don't mean to discourage you (I went through this with a dell projector), but my conclusion was that if the projector isn't programmed to specifically lock onto the output signal by the graphics card, the projector will never truly be in sync. E.g The projector is probably working at 120.001Hz internally while the signal is 120.002Hz or 119.999Hz from the GPU. Frustratingly, both these would still be shown as 120.00Hz in the custom resolution / CRU windows, and they do not allow one to change the values in such small increments. The firmware programming would have the be ridiculously shoddy if this is true because it would manifest as a tear even in 2D slowly progressing up or down the screen. As long as the projector isn't locking onto the GPU signal, the tear will always be present; anything one might try - even inject a DLP flash, wouldn't work, as the result would be exactly the same as the XPand glasses. For anything to be workable, we have to somehow make the projector lock onto the GPU signal permanently. In the end, I had to sell the otherwise brilliant dell projector and buy a lower resolution, dimmer, but 120Hz lockable "3D Vision Ready" projector instead (the infamous pjd6531w).
Hi Russell,

If I recall, the difference in refresh for a few minutes will be in the range of +/- 0.01 Hz;- +1 or -1Hz is too big.

To change the refresh at such small increments is difficult as one cannot do it directly - one has to change the pixel and/or line parameters by 1 up and down to change the resulting refresh by some fractionally small margin.

I don't mean to discourage you (I went through this with a dell projector), but my conclusion was that if the projector isn't programmed to specifically lock onto the output signal by the graphics card, the projector will never truly be in sync.

E.g The projector is probably working at 120.001Hz internally while the signal is 120.002Hz or 119.999Hz from the GPU.

Frustratingly, both these would still be shown as 120.00Hz in the custom resolution / CRU windows, and they do not allow one to change the values in such small increments.

The firmware programming would have the be ridiculously shoddy if this is true because it would manifest as a tear even in 2D slowly progressing up or down the screen.

As long as the projector isn't locking onto the GPU signal, the tear will always be present; anything one might try - even inject a DLP flash, wouldn't work, as the result would be exactly the same as the XPand glasses.

For anything to be workable, we have to somehow make the projector lock onto the GPU signal permanently.

In the end, I had to sell the otherwise brilliant dell projector and buy a lower resolution, dimmer, but 120Hz lockable "3D Vision Ready" projector instead (the infamous pjd6531w).

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 01/07/2019 08:00 PM   
Hi Shahzad, I haven't noticed a tear in 2d mode. If that's a symptom of the projector not being locked then I'll try and look for it. As you know, the projector is new and therefore under warranty, plus 1920x1080x120Hz is natively supported in the firmware, so if that's an issue then I'd like to think I can get some sort of fix from BenQ. I'll try and recreate this then contact their support. However, if I see no tearing in 2d, is it not equally possible that it's an issue with USB timing and or the emitter somehow? In my extensive trawling I did see a number of years ago that some users had similar issues due to a C1E (power saving) setting in the BIOS on older AMD motherboards. Not that I've noticed this issue on my monitors though... I think I'll need to try HDMI direct to the projector as well, just to rule that out. More testing required.
Hi Shahzad,

I haven't noticed a tear in 2d mode. If that's a symptom of the projector not being locked then I'll try and look for it. As you know, the projector is new and therefore under warranty, plus 1920x1080x120Hz is natively supported in the firmware, so if that's an issue then I'd like to think I can get some sort of fix from BenQ.
I'll try and recreate this then contact their support.

However, if I see no tearing in 2d, is it not equally possible that it's an issue with USB timing and or the emitter somehow? In my extensive trawling I did see a number of years ago that some users had similar issues due to a C1E (power saving) setting in the BIOS on older AMD motherboards.
Not that I've noticed this issue on my monitors though...

I think I'll need to try HDMI direct to the projector as well, just to rule that out.
More testing required.

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 01/07/2019 10:16 PM   
  17 / 18    
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