Metal-O-Holic, I'm sure your / BlackSharkfr's setups are superb mate. I agree that to you and many people, your setups will be far better than the active alternatives :)
BlackSharkfr, I agree with your points that you seem to disagree with me on! I believe the missunderstanding might stem from perhaps myself not explaining clearly, so here is a better breakdown... :)
I would ask you to consider the context of my post. The question by KoelerMeester was not "Why don't you go passive over active?". The question, considering context was, "Why don't you go 1600p passive vs 800p active?", and therein lies my personal reservations regarding jumping to a higher resolution without considering other problems such as antialiasing and available horsepower :)
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]What I disagree on :
-Passive is half resolution : This is onyly true for TVs (FPR technology).
My dual-pj system is full resolution 1080p. It has always been from the very start 8 years ago when I used AMD cards with the iZ3D driver, it is still true today with Tridef (SBS full-resolution) or 3D Vision (frame sequential) drivers[/quote]
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that passives cut the resolution by any means.
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]-horse power : Dual-pj uses the same horse power as the same resolution active screen.
If you are running 1080p 3D Vision, the equivalent 1080p dual-pj will use the same power[/quote]
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that passives require more horsepower.
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]-DSR vs higher native resolution : The whole point of DSR is to allow your games to render at higher resolution and then scale back to your screen's resolution. So just outputting that extra resolution straight to the pixels should not take any extra ressources.
800p with 4x DSR should produce the same number of pixels as native 1600p.
So if you have the horse power to run such a high resolution with downscaling, why not just send those pixels straight to screen ?[/quote]
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that DSR requires less/more horsepower than actual pixels.
What I actually said was that 800p DSR to 1600p gives perfect antialiasing, whereas actual 1600p will require antialiasing on top which would considerably degrade performance; and if you wanted the best antialiasing for 1600p on top of that, you would have to DSR 1600p to 3200p which is 5k 3DV or equivalent to ~8k 2D performance hit, which demands unrealistic horsepower.
Generally, what I was trying to convey was that for me personally:
1. Due to price and crosstalk, I would prefer active 1600p @ 120Hz when upgrading eventually, if and when that becomes a reality.
2. Because I personally detest aliasing, going from my current 'perfect antialiasing' 1600p setup to a potential 'perfect antialiasing' 3200p setup is a poor trade-off in performance to get a slightly sharper image at my seating distance, so I personally don't have too much of a problem waiting for something ideal to come along :)
Metal-O-Holic, I'm sure your / BlackSharkfr's setups are superb mate. I agree that to you and many people, your setups will be far better than the active alternatives :)
BlackSharkfr, I agree with your points that you seem to disagree with me on! I believe the missunderstanding might stem from perhaps myself not explaining clearly, so here is a better breakdown... :)
I would ask you to consider the context of my post. The question by KoelerMeester was not "Why don't you go passive over active?". The question, considering context was, "Why don't you go 1600p passive vs 800p active?", and therein lies my personal reservations regarding jumping to a higher resolution without considering other problems such as antialiasing and available horsepower :)
BlackSharkfr said:What I disagree on :
-Passive is half resolution : This is onyly true for TVs (FPR technology).
My dual-pj system is full resolution 1080p. It has always been from the very start 8 years ago when I used AMD cards with the iZ3D driver, it is still true today with Tridef (SBS full-resolution) or 3D Vision (frame sequential) drivers
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that passives cut the resolution by any means.
BlackSharkfr said:-horse power : Dual-pj uses the same horse power as the same resolution active screen.
If you are running 1080p 3D Vision, the equivalent 1080p dual-pj will use the same power
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that passives require more horsepower.
BlackSharkfr said:-DSR vs higher native resolution : The whole point of DSR is to allow your games to render at higher resolution and then scale back to your screen's resolution. So just outputting that extra resolution straight to the pixels should not take any extra ressources.
800p with 4x DSR should produce the same number of pixels as native 1600p.
So if you have the horse power to run such a high resolution with downscaling, why not just send those pixels straight to screen ?
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that DSR requires less/more horsepower than actual pixels.
What I actually said was that 800p DSR to 1600p gives perfect antialiasing, whereas actual 1600p will require antialiasing on top which would considerably degrade performance; and if you wanted the best antialiasing for 1600p on top of that, you would have to DSR 1600p to 3200p which is 5k 3DV or equivalent to ~8k 2D performance hit, which demands unrealistic horsepower.
Generally, what I was trying to convey was that for me personally:
1. Due to price and crosstalk, I would prefer active 1600p @ 120Hz when upgrading eventually, if and when that becomes a reality.
2. Because I personally detest aliasing, going from my current 'perfect antialiasing' 1600p setup to a potential 'perfect antialiasing' 3200p setup is a poor trade-off in performance to get a slightly sharper image at my seating distance, so I personally don't have too much of a problem waiting for something ideal to come along :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
i wonder why do i find AA more disturbing than prefered ?
Usually i just leave it off. if you run msaa for say at 4X yes the edges are smoother but somehow the whole sene just lookes soft and it eats resources. am i doing something wrong or is this just once again personal taste question ?
i wonder why do i find AA more disturbing than prefered ?
Usually i just leave it off. if you run msaa for say at 4X yes the edges are smoother but somehow the whole sene just lookes soft and it eats resources. am i doing something wrong or is this just once again personal taste question ?
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TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
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It depends on the type of Antialiasing, and it's not just you mate.
Cheap and fast antialiasing such as FXAA/SMAA = blurry mess but no real performance impact. High compatibility with games though.
MSAA = decent AA, low to no blurring, AA lines look somewhat blurry; moderate performance impact. Relatively medium to low compatibility with games though, especially those using deferred lighting IIRC.
4x Super sampled AA i.e. DSR = perfect sharpness and antialiasing, even on edges. Here, both the horizontal and vertical pixels are supersampled exactly 2:1. The bonus here is that because the AA is so superb, you can sharpen the image to a huge degree to get a phenomenal image quality without exacerbating aliasing too badly (usually sharpening = exponential increase in aliasing). Down side = 4x the power requirements due to 4x the pixels (2x horizontal and 2x vertical), and up to ~double performance requirement on top of that because 3DV requires that much more horsepower. Added advantage - universal compatibility with all games to my knowledge.
The icing on the cake is that 3DV especially benefits because both eyes are receiving a best antialiased image instead of each eye receiving a partially antialiased image due to sub-par methods such as MSAA and FXAA/SMAA.
What this means is, that having a lowly 800p setup can give astonishingly good results if DSR and Reshade can be got to work well together.
Though, saying that, it certainly won't be great for people playing 720p on 1080p native projectors because 1.5:1 pixel scaling would degrade image quality no matter what one tried. More info on that here:
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1011300/3d-vision/projector-question-please-about-to-upgrade-and-have-no-clue-or-half-a-clue-maybe-/post/5160077/#5160077[/url]
It depends on the type of Antialiasing, and it's not just you mate.
Cheap and fast antialiasing such as FXAA/SMAA = blurry mess but no real performance impact. High compatibility with games though.
MSAA = decent AA, low to no blurring, AA lines look somewhat blurry; moderate performance impact. Relatively medium to low compatibility with games though, especially those using deferred lighting IIRC.
4x Super sampled AA i.e. DSR = perfect sharpness and antialiasing, even on edges. Here, both the horizontal and vertical pixels are supersampled exactly 2:1. The bonus here is that because the AA is so superb, you can sharpen the image to a huge degree to get a phenomenal image quality without exacerbating aliasing too badly (usually sharpening = exponential increase in aliasing). Down side = 4x the power requirements due to 4x the pixels (2x horizontal and 2x vertical), and up to ~double performance requirement on top of that because 3DV requires that much more horsepower. Added advantage - universal compatibility with all games to my knowledge.
The icing on the cake is that 3DV especially benefits because both eyes are receiving a best antialiased image instead of each eye receiving a partially antialiased image due to sub-par methods such as MSAA and FXAA/SMAA.
What this means is, that having a lowly 800p setup can give astonishingly good results if DSR and Reshade can be got to work well together.
Though, saying that, it certainly won't be great for people playing 720p on 1080p native projectors because 1.5:1 pixel scaling would degrade image quality no matter what one tried. More info on that here:
[quote="RAGEdemon"]
Though, saying that, it certainly won't be great for people playing 720p on 1080p native projectors because 1.5:1 pixel scaling would degrade image quality no matter what one tried.[/quote]
For some reason I thought projectors behaved like CRTs, showing all resolutions just as perfectly as the native one. It shows that I've never owned a projector :p. Good to know.
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]i wonder why do i find AA more disturbing than prefered ?[/quote]
MSAA is undoubtedly superior to not using antialiasing, if you have the performance to spare. Supersampling / downsampling improves detail of distant or small objects, and also improves texture filtering, but reaching the same antialiasing quality for edges as 8xMSAA is extremely costly. For example, 3840x2160 on a 1920x1080 monitor should be the equivalent to 4xMSAA for geometry edges.
I don't bother with post processing AA. SMAA is somewhat decent, but I can't stop thinking that all post processing AA is fake and I keep turning it off and on at intervals.
RAGEdemon said:
Though, saying that, it certainly won't be great for people playing 720p on 1080p native projectors because 1.5:1 pixel scaling would degrade image quality no matter what one tried.
For some reason I thought projectors behaved like CRTs, showing all resolutions just as perfectly as the native one. It shows that I've never owned a projector :p. Good to know.
Metal-O-Holic said:i wonder why do i find AA more disturbing than prefered ?
MSAA is undoubtedly superior to not using antialiasing, if you have the performance to spare. Supersampling / downsampling improves detail of distant or small objects, and also improves texture filtering, but reaching the same antialiasing quality for edges as 8xMSAA is extremely costly. For example, 3840x2160 on a 1920x1080 monitor should be the equivalent to 4xMSAA for geometry edges.
I don't bother with post processing AA. SMAA is somewhat decent, but I can't stop thinking that all post processing AA is fake and I keep turning it off and on at intervals.
Apologies If I am derailing this thread, but I have a question that Metal-O-Holic or Blackshark may be able to answer? I was always interested if the Geobox-501 added any additional input lag into the loop? I didn't measure this at the time I had a Dual Projector setup, but found Input lag to be an issue with gaming, may also be the fact the BenQ W7000 had roughly 50ms input lag to start with, or maybe I was just more sensitive to it?
My setup was - 2 x Benq W7000, Geobox-501, Omega Lens/Glasses etc...
Apologies If I am derailing this thread, but I have a question that Metal-O-Holic or Blackshark may be able to answer? I was always interested if the Geobox-501 added any additional input lag into the loop? I didn't measure this at the time I had a Dual Projector setup, but found Input lag to be an issue with gaming, may also be the fact the BenQ W7000 had roughly 50ms input lag to start with, or maybe I was just more sensitive to it?
My setup was - 2 x Benq W7000, Geobox-501, Omega Lens/Glasses etc...
Blackshark might remember. But i have a feeling it does not ad latency.
I have never got the whole input lag issue. Have never felt there Was too
Much of input lag. Using projectors much bigger issue could be panels response time and motion resolution.
Its all matter of getting used to. Offcourse its a matter of taste also so no point arqueing is input lag
Relevant.
Tonymaxbirt you should have tried polarized. I used long time the omega filtters but eventually end up always keeping on my polarizers.
Omege system would be great if there Was super high brightness projectors with xenon lightsource and 3d lut boxes and the lenses had antireflect coating inside
Blackshark might remember. But i have a feeling it does not ad latency.
I have never got the whole input lag issue. Have never felt there Was too
Much of input lag. Using projectors much bigger issue could be panels response time and motion resolution.
Its all matter of getting used to. Offcourse its a matter of taste also so no point arqueing is input lag
Relevant.
Tonymaxbirt you should have tried polarized. I used long time the omega filtters but eventually end up always keeping on my polarizers.
Omege system would be great if there Was super high brightness projectors with xenon lightsource and 3d lut boxes and the lenses had antireflect coating inside
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
I do not notice much input lag, but I am also not very sensitive to it.
I usually play games with a controller, and when I play games with a keyboard/mouse combo, I'm using comfortable wireless devices (Logitech K800 keyboard and Performance MX mouse), clearly not low latency gamer hardware.
Perhaps I have a big advantage : my projectors were known to be extremely fast, measured by a review site at 20ms input lag, which is among the best projectors even compared to today"s home cinema projectors.
The reason being these projectors date back to before manufacturers started trying to do "intelligent TVs and projectors).
They're just dumb displays. There is no embedded OS, no embedded video players, no network management.... etc... Nothing to slow them down.
I have no means to measure the input lag of the Geobox 501, but I believe I remember reading somewhere that they only add 1 line of delay for processing.
There is also a theroretical delay of 1/2 frame when using frame sequential mode (in order to output the two images simultaneously to the projectors)
I do not notice much input lag, but I am also not very sensitive to it.
I usually play games with a controller, and when I play games with a keyboard/mouse combo, I'm using comfortable wireless devices (Logitech K800 keyboard and Performance MX mouse), clearly not low latency gamer hardware.
Perhaps I have a big advantage : my projectors were known to be extremely fast, measured by a review site at 20ms input lag, which is among the best projectors even compared to today"s home cinema projectors.
The reason being these projectors date back to before manufacturers started trying to do "intelligent TVs and projectors).
They're just dumb displays. There is no embedded OS, no embedded video players, no network management.... etc... Nothing to slow them down.
I have no means to measure the input lag of the Geobox 501, but I believe I remember reading somewhere that they only add 1 line of delay for processing.
There is also a theroretical delay of 1/2 frame when using frame sequential mode (in order to output the two images simultaneously to the projectors)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Here's a strange thing I ran across after Electryic suggested a look at the Avegant Glyph.
https://www.amazon.com/Royole-Moon-Virtual-Mobile-Theater/dp/B01M8FE2U4
There a handful of these, similar to the Sony HMZ-T1/3. The Glyph is $209 at NewEgg, and could be considered to be the same as a 720p projector.
The Moon is a 1080p device however. And it looks like it runs at 60Hz and supports SBS video. It is possible that this would allow for 60hz 1080p gaming with a virtual TV. I could not easily find out what HDMI spec it supports, so it's not completely clear.
In any case, if anyone happens to use these for 3D Vision it would be interesting to hear results.
There a handful of these, similar to the Sony HMZ-T1/3. The Glyph is $209 at NewEgg, and could be considered to be the same as a 720p projector.
The Moon is a 1080p device however. And it looks like it runs at 60Hz and supports SBS video. It is possible that this would allow for 60hz 1080p gaming with a virtual TV. I could not easily find out what HDMI spec it supports, so it's not completely clear.
In any case, if anyone happens to use these for 3D Vision it would be interesting to hear results.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
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SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
This guy has a pretty impartial and subjective review of the Avegant Glyph, Royale Moon and Vuzix iWear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPw-IMTiRUg
and
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/video-accessory/royole-moon-3d-mobile-theater-review/
I have an Epson EH-TW5300 which works fine with 3d vision @720, however i cant seem to enable CRT mode.
i have read the post on AVforums but dont know how i could enable 1080@120 can anyone give me advice?
failing that just being able to enable CRT mode would help?
There's no chance you'll get 1080@120 working on that projector, it's only possible on the VERY expensive models or the much newer 4k projectors with HDMI 2.0.
Assume it's being picked up as a 3dtv play device? Even if you managed to get CRT mode working, it wouldn't help you plus you'd then need to use the Nvidia 3d vision glasses rather than the epson glasses.
There's no chance you'll get 1080@120 working on that projector, it's only possible on the VERY expensive models or the much newer 4k projectors with HDMI 2.0.
Assume it's being picked up as a 3dtv play device? Even if you managed to get CRT mode working, it wouldn't help you plus you'd then need to use the Nvidia 3d vision glasses rather than the epson glasses.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
[quote="rustyk21"]There's no chance you'll get 1080@120 working on that projector, it's only possible on the VERY expensive models or the much newer 4k projectors with HDMI 2.0.
Assume it's being picked up as a 3dtv play device? Even if you managed to get CRT mode working, it wouldn't help you plus you'd then need to use the Nvidia 3d vision glasses rather than the epson glasses.[/quote]
ok thats cool i can live with that, just wanted to make sure it wasnt me not trying hard enough or being not knowledgeable enough, its a shame it only works with DLP projectors because i could upgrade but the blasted rainbow effect completely kills it for me, so far projector wise i absolutely love epson every project i have owned from them has been absolutely fab.
does anyone know of what the nearest equivalent of an epson LCD projector would be to get the 1080?
rustyk21 said:There's no chance you'll get 1080@120 working on that projector, it's only possible on the VERY expensive models or the much newer 4k projectors with HDMI 2.0.
Assume it's being picked up as a 3dtv play device? Even if you managed to get CRT mode working, it wouldn't help you plus you'd then need to use the Nvidia 3d vision glasses rather than the epson glasses.
ok thats cool i can live with that, just wanted to make sure it wasnt me not trying hard enough or being not knowledgeable enough, its a shame it only works with DLP projectors because i could upgrade but the blasted rainbow effect completely kills it for me, so far projector wise i absolutely love epson every project i have owned from them has been absolutely fab.
does anyone know of what the nearest equivalent of an epson LCD projector would be to get the 1080?
It's a good question, personally I don't know.
I assume you're aware that newer DLP projectors with a faster RGBRGB colour wheel do not have a bad problem with the rainbow effect? Also, honestly, DLP is inherently a better technology for crosstalk as the pixel transition time is instantaneous compared to any of the different LCD technologies?
Also, the rainbow effect is more noticeable the higher the brightness, so actually it's sometimes less of an issue in 3d because the image is that much dimmer.
As far as LCD (or any projector) goes, you basically need something with a HDMI 2.0 port then you need to somehow verify that it will accept 1080@120hz, then you can try and get 3d vision working.
PaulDusler bought an Optoma UHD50 and I think he's really enjoying it.
I assume you're aware that newer DLP projectors with a faster RGBRGB colour wheel do not have a bad problem with the rainbow effect? Also, honestly, DLP is inherently a better technology for crosstalk as the pixel transition time is instantaneous compared to any of the different LCD technologies?
Also, the rainbow effect is more noticeable the higher the brightness, so actually it's sometimes less of an issue in 3d because the image is that much dimmer.
As far as LCD (or any projector) goes, you basically need something with a HDMI 2.0 port then you need to somehow verify that it will accept 1080@120hz, then you can try and get 3d vision working.
PaulDusler bought an Optoma UHD50 and I think he's really enjoying it.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
[quote="rustyk21"]It's a good question, personally I don't know.
I assume you're aware that newer DLP projectors with a faster RGBRGB colour wheel do not have a bad problem with the rainbow effect? Also, honestly, DLP is inherently a better technology for crosstalk as the pixel transition time is instantaneous compared to any of the different LCD technologies?
Also, the rainbow effect is more noticeable the higher the brightness, so actually it's sometimes less of an issue in 3d because the image is that much dimmer.
As far as LCD (or any projector) goes, you basically need something with a HDMI 2.0 port then you need to somehow verify that it will accept 1080@120hz, then you can try and get 3d vision working.
PaulDusler bought an Optoma UHD50 and I think he's really enjoying it.[/quote]
depends on the viewer. I have huge over sensitivity to rainbows. But optoma h60 was almoust watchable. much better than dlp´s i have seen before (optoma hd25e, benq2000 equivalent)
to me rainbow is issue all the time, no matter high or low brightness.
by the way i read somewhere it doesn´t matter if the rgb wheel would run 12 times or higher.
rustyk21 said:It's a good question, personally I don't know.
I assume you're aware that newer DLP projectors with a faster RGBRGB colour wheel do not have a bad problem with the rainbow effect? Also, honestly, DLP is inherently a better technology for crosstalk as the pixel transition time is instantaneous compared to any of the different LCD technologies?
Also, the rainbow effect is more noticeable the higher the brightness, so actually it's sometimes less of an issue in 3d because the image is that much dimmer.
As far as LCD (or any projector) goes, you basically need something with a HDMI 2.0 port then you need to somehow verify that it will accept 1080@120hz, then you can try and get 3d vision working.
PaulDusler bought an Optoma UHD50 and I think he's really enjoying it.
depends on the viewer. I have huge over sensitivity to rainbows. But optoma h60 was almoust watchable. much better than dlp´s i have seen before (optoma hd25e, benq2000 equivalent)
to me rainbow is issue all the time, no matter high or low brightness.
by the way i read somewhere it doesn´t matter if the rgb wheel would run 12 times or higher.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
BlackSharkfr, I agree with your points that you seem to disagree with me on! I believe the missunderstanding might stem from perhaps myself not explaining clearly, so here is a better breakdown... :)
I would ask you to consider the context of my post. The question by KoelerMeester was not "Why don't you go passive over active?". The question, considering context was, "Why don't you go 1600p passive vs 800p active?", and therein lies my personal reservations regarding jumping to a higher resolution without considering other problems such as antialiasing and available horsepower :)
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that passives cut the resolution by any means.
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that passives require more horsepower.
Absolutely; and at no point have I hinted that DSR requires less/more horsepower than actual pixels.
What I actually said was that 800p DSR to 1600p gives perfect antialiasing, whereas actual 1600p will require antialiasing on top which would considerably degrade performance; and if you wanted the best antialiasing for 1600p on top of that, you would have to DSR 1600p to 3200p which is 5k 3DV or equivalent to ~8k 2D performance hit, which demands unrealistic horsepower.
Generally, what I was trying to convey was that for me personally:
1. Due to price and crosstalk, I would prefer active 1600p @ 120Hz when upgrading eventually, if and when that becomes a reality.
2. Because I personally detest aliasing, going from my current 'perfect antialiasing' 1600p setup to a potential 'perfect antialiasing' 3200p setup is a poor trade-off in performance to get a slightly sharper image at my seating distance, so I personally don't have too much of a problem waiting for something ideal to come along :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Usually i just leave it off. if you run msaa for say at 4X yes the edges are smoother but somehow the whole sene just lookes soft and it eats resources. am i doing something wrong or is this just once again personal taste question ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Cheap and fast antialiasing such as FXAA/SMAA = blurry mess but no real performance impact. High compatibility with games though.
MSAA = decent AA, low to no blurring, AA lines look somewhat blurry; moderate performance impact. Relatively medium to low compatibility with games though, especially those using deferred lighting IIRC.
4x Super sampled AA i.e. DSR = perfect sharpness and antialiasing, even on edges. Here, both the horizontal and vertical pixels are supersampled exactly 2:1. The bonus here is that because the AA is so superb, you can sharpen the image to a huge degree to get a phenomenal image quality without exacerbating aliasing too badly (usually sharpening = exponential increase in aliasing). Down side = 4x the power requirements due to 4x the pixels (2x horizontal and 2x vertical), and up to ~double performance requirement on top of that because 3DV requires that much more horsepower. Added advantage - universal compatibility with all games to my knowledge.
The icing on the cake is that 3DV especially benefits because both eyes are receiving a best antialiased image instead of each eye receiving a partially antialiased image due to sub-par methods such as MSAA and FXAA/SMAA.
What this means is, that having a lowly 800p setup can give astonishingly good results if DSR and Reshade can be got to work well together.
Though, saying that, it certainly won't be great for people playing 720p on 1080p native projectors because 1.5:1 pixel scaling would degrade image quality no matter what one tried. More info on that here:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1011300/3d-vision/projector-question-please-about-to-upgrade-and-have-no-clue-or-half-a-clue-maybe-/post/5160077/#5160077
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
For some reason I thought projectors behaved like CRTs, showing all resolutions just as perfectly as the native one. It shows that I've never owned a projector :p. Good to know.
MSAA is undoubtedly superior to not using antialiasing, if you have the performance to spare. Supersampling / downsampling improves detail of distant or small objects, and also improves texture filtering, but reaching the same antialiasing quality for edges as 8xMSAA is extremely costly. For example, 3840x2160 on a 1920x1080 monitor should be the equivalent to 4xMSAA for geometry edges.
I don't bother with post processing AA. SMAA is somewhat decent, but I can't stop thinking that all post processing AA is fake and I keep turning it off and on at intervals.
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My setup was - 2 x Benq W7000, Geobox-501, Omega Lens/Glasses etc...
I have never got the whole input lag issue. Have never felt there Was too
Much of input lag. Using projectors much bigger issue could be panels response time and motion resolution.
Its all matter of getting used to. Offcourse its a matter of taste also so no point arqueing is input lag
Relevant.
Tonymaxbirt you should have tried polarized. I used long time the omega filtters but eventually end up always keeping on my polarizers.
Omege system would be great if there Was super high brightness projectors with xenon lightsource and 3d lut boxes and the lenses had antireflect coating inside
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Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
I usually play games with a controller, and when I play games with a keyboard/mouse combo, I'm using comfortable wireless devices (Logitech K800 keyboard and Performance MX mouse), clearly not low latency gamer hardware.
Perhaps I have a big advantage : my projectors were known to be extremely fast, measured by a review site at 20ms input lag, which is among the best projectors even compared to today"s home cinema projectors.
The reason being these projectors date back to before manufacturers started trying to do "intelligent TVs and projectors).
They're just dumb displays. There is no embedded OS, no embedded video players, no network management.... etc... Nothing to slow them down.
I have no means to measure the input lag of the Geobox 501, but I believe I remember reading somewhere that they only add 1 line of delay for processing.
There is also a theroretical delay of 1/2 frame when using frame sequential mode (in order to output the two images simultaneously to the projectors)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
https://www.amazon.com/Royole-Moon-Virtual-Mobile-Theater/dp/B01M8FE2U4
There a handful of these, similar to the Sony HMZ-T1/3. The Glyph is $209 at NewEgg, and could be considered to be the same as a 720p projector.
The Moon is a 1080p device however. And it looks like it runs at 60Hz and supports SBS video. It is possible that this would allow for 60hz 1080p gaming with a virtual TV. I could not easily find out what HDMI spec it supports, so it's not completely clear.
In any case, if anyone happens to use these for 3D Vision it would be interesting to hear results.
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and
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/video-accessory/royole-moon-3d-mobile-theater-review/
i have read the post on AVforums but dont know how i could enable 1080@120 can anyone give me advice?
failing that just being able to enable CRT mode would help?
Assume it's being picked up as a 3dtv play device? Even if you managed to get CRT mode working, it wouldn't help you plus you'd then need to use the Nvidia 3d vision glasses rather than the epson glasses.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
ok thats cool i can live with that, just wanted to make sure it wasnt me not trying hard enough or being not knowledgeable enough, its a shame it only works with DLP projectors because i could upgrade but the blasted rainbow effect completely kills it for me, so far projector wise i absolutely love epson every project i have owned from them has been absolutely fab.
does anyone know of what the nearest equivalent of an epson LCD projector would be to get the 1080?
I assume you're aware that newer DLP projectors with a faster RGBRGB colour wheel do not have a bad problem with the rainbow effect? Also, honestly, DLP is inherently a better technology for crosstalk as the pixel transition time is instantaneous compared to any of the different LCD technologies?
Also, the rainbow effect is more noticeable the higher the brightness, so actually it's sometimes less of an issue in 3d because the image is that much dimmer.
As far as LCD (or any projector) goes, you basically need something with a HDMI 2.0 port then you need to somehow verify that it will accept 1080@120hz, then you can try and get 3d vision working.
PaulDusler bought an Optoma UHD50 and I think he's really enjoying it.
Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310
depends on the viewer. I have huge over sensitivity to rainbows. But optoma h60 was almoust watchable. much better than dlp´s i have seen before (optoma hd25e, benq2000 equivalent)
to me rainbow is issue all the time, no matter high or low brightness.
by the way i read somewhere it doesn´t matter if the rgb wheel would run 12 times or higher.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele