The end of 3D is now :-(
  3 / 6    
Geez, look at all the stupid comments under that video. Anyone want to help respond to some of these people to help them know what 3D is actually like? Like maybe people who aren't modders? :) The video author also seemed to imply that toyificaton was an inevitable part of 3D Vision. [quote]If a game wants to be played in 3d, it's gonna have to be made that way from the ground up.[/quote] [quote]I agree. I have the same view with movies. True 3D allows the eye to focus on what the viewer wants to see. Films (or even games that use cinematic techniques) use focus & framing to ensure the viewer sees what the film maker (or game developer) wants them to see. Forcing a fake 3D effect on an image that already has objects in various degrees of focus is counterproductive & looks horrible in my opinion. After a few sub-par experiences, now I refuse to see any movie in 3D unless it was actually filmed that way. I was surprised to see an Arkham game on that list because they actually use a lot of cinematic techniques in their cutscenes. "Cinematic" is an overused word these days so I'll define it with examples like using blurry vision when Batman gets hit in the head or using focus pulls. Those kind of visual effects are sure to clash with 3D, even if it is built into the game to a certain extent.[/quote]
Geez, look at all the stupid comments under that video. Anyone want to help respond to some of these people to help them know what 3D is actually like? Like maybe people who aren't modders? :)

The video author also seemed to imply that toyificaton was an inevitable part of 3D Vision.

If a game wants to be played in 3d, it's gonna have to be made that way from the ground up.

I agree. I have the same view with movies. True 3D allows the eye to focus on what the viewer wants to see. Films (or even games that use cinematic techniques) use focus & framing to ensure the viewer sees what the film maker (or game developer) wants them to see. Forcing a fake 3D effect on an image that already has objects in various degrees of focus is counterproductive & looks horrible in my opinion. After a few sub-par experiences, now I refuse to see any movie in 3D unless it was actually filmed that way. I was surprised to see an Arkham game on that list because they actually use a lot of cinematic techniques in their cutscenes. "Cinematic" is an overused word these days so I'll define it with examples like using blurry vision when Batman gets hit in the head or using focus pulls. Those kind of visual effects are sure to clash with 3D, even if it is built into the game to a certain extent.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#31
Posted 01/24/2017 03:46 AM   
3D vision didn't get the exposure it deserves. If it has any chance of revival nVidia would have to go the extra mile and invest more money in marketing. In all this time I haven't seen one presentation at the cinemas. If they make a deal with the most popular movie theater chains for one proper 5 to 10 min preview, which includes the most successful games with proper depth, I believe they might make a comeback. At this time its as if they're just waiting for fans to die out or something. It cant be an easy task to get all game developers to dance to 3D vision's tune when immersive gamers contribute a mere 2 or 3%, what ever the figures are. By this time, if nVidia were smart enough, they would have monitored the amount of 3d Vision users through their control panel on a database, even when it means anonymously. That way they would know if its worth it or not. nVidia, I believe, is a company that doesn't spend enough on marketing because it is very well "self advertised". But 3D vision wasn't very well received through self advertising. The other day after a match on battlefield in a server of 60 guys I pooped the question: Who uses 3D vision? The response was the sound of crickets. They didn't seem to have a clue what it was. One good presentation including at least the top ten 3dVision games will give it the exposure it deserves. It would crush their little "competition" and have the potential to make a comeback! Until this happens I don't see a future for us and our pleasure in 3D gaming. By the time Avatar 2 reaches the big screen nVidia should have something in place to present. "Released in December 2009, the film continues to hold the record as the highest-grossing movie of all time, pulling in $2.782 billion worldwide." Imagine how many will be watching the second one!? This is where nVidia's potential comeback lies. They shouldn't miss this opportunity!!!! If they try this the most prominent game stores should have a 3D Vision station in place with those games presented at the cinema to promote it further. I've been playing around with a concept the past holiday where I build a big box big enough to fit over me and my pc monitor. Its black and nicely ventilated. Its like im in my own small world adding 5x more immersion. Its because I didnt want to be aware of anything else but me and my fantasy. Because of the enclosed setup you get more out of the sound too. Only thing you don't wana do in this enclosure is fart. This also gets sharpened...unfortunately. Now who wouldn't be curious about something similar when they walk into a game store and see this big black box with a green glowing nVidia sign on the side? THINK nVidia THINK. Just freakin do so something!!!
3D vision didn't get the exposure it deserves. If it has any chance of revival nVidia would have to go the extra mile and invest more money in marketing. In all this time I haven't seen one presentation at the cinemas.

If they make a deal with the most popular movie theater chains for one proper 5 to 10 min preview, which includes the most successful games with proper depth, I believe they might make a comeback. At this time its as if they're just waiting for fans to die out or something.

It cant be an easy task to get all game developers to dance to 3D vision's tune when immersive gamers contribute a mere 2 or 3%, what ever the figures are. By this time, if nVidia were smart enough, they would have monitored the amount of 3d Vision users through their control panel on a database, even when it means anonymously.

That way they would know if its worth it or not. nVidia, I believe, is a company that doesn't spend enough on marketing because it is very well "self advertised". But 3D vision wasn't very well received through self advertising. The other day after a match on battlefield in a server of 60 guys I pooped the question: Who uses 3D vision?

The response was the sound of crickets. They didn't seem to have a clue what it was. One good presentation including at least the top ten 3dVision games will give it the exposure it deserves. It would crush their little "competition" and have the potential to make a comeback! Until this happens I don't see a future for us and our pleasure in 3D gaming.

By the time Avatar 2 reaches the big screen nVidia should have something in place to present. "Released in December 2009, the film continues to hold the record as the highest-grossing movie of all time, pulling in $2.782 billion worldwide." Imagine how many will be watching the second one!? This is where nVidia's potential comeback lies.
They shouldn't miss this opportunity!!!! If they try this the most prominent game stores should have a 3D Vision station in place with those games presented at the cinema to promote it further.

I've been playing around with a concept the past holiday where I build a big box big enough to fit over me and my pc monitor. Its black and nicely ventilated. Its like im in my own small world adding 5x more immersion. Its because I didnt want to be aware of anything else but me and my fantasy.
Because of the enclosed setup you get more out of the sound too.

Only thing you don't wana do in this enclosure is fart. This also gets sharpened...unfortunately.

Now who wouldn't be curious about something similar when they walk into a game store and see this big black box with a green glowing nVidia sign on the side? THINK nVidia THINK. Just freakin do so something!!!

#32
Posted 01/24/2017 07:53 AM   
Palmer Luckey was right: The rift exists ... Yet it's not something to stick your head into while messing up your hair, but it's between consumers and prosumers. A yuuuuuge rift. And what gives: Stereoscopic 3D was always a prosumer oriented technology. VR never really found acceptance there and making consumers embrace it won't really change that IMO, and now it's about exhibitionism instead of pushing boundaries. IMO , you don't really want consumers to embrace your stuff. Consumers have mob mentality with high temperament and all downsides coming with that: impulsively spending, envious, angry. Stark opposite of prosumers. Maybe if they become envious of prosumers , that could work. Yet they don't feel envious about current implementations of stereo or surround, (hence the quipping about quixotic VR and autostereo.) prob. rightfully to a good degree.
Palmer Luckey was right:

The rift exists ...

Yet it's not something to stick your head into while messing up your hair,
but it's between consumers and prosumers. A yuuuuuge rift. And what gives: Stereoscopic 3D was always a prosumer oriented technology. VR never really found acceptance there and making consumers embrace it won't really change that IMO, and now it's about exhibitionism instead of pushing boundaries.
IMO , you don't really want consumers to embrace your stuff.
Consumers have mob mentality with high temperament and all downsides coming with that: impulsively spending, envious, angry. Stark opposite of prosumers.
Maybe if they become envious of prosumers , that could work. Yet they don't feel envious about current implementations of stereo or surround, (hence the quipping about quixotic VR and autostereo.) prob. rightfully to a good degree.

#33
Posted 01/24/2017 08:55 AM   
I saw this a few days ago and decided not to make a fuss about it, due to the announcement of Asus 3dvision compatible 4k screen. So, no .. not dead yet. Get a monitor it's better anyway. I sit so close in my cockpit size is not an issue my 27 inch is basically a large tv anyway because of this. (and surround is another step up entirely) tv's suck and have stupid amounts of input lag for gaming. I agree Nvidia should have marketed 3dvision at the cinema somehow, show people what 3d actually looks like before they see there latest fake movie in 3d =) I think we would be seeing a different story now. Everyone I have shown 3dvision to on a properly supported game have been simply blown away and all have mentioned "This is nothing like 3d movies, Now I get it." Even my girlfriend wanted to play the witcher 3 after she saw it in 3d and she hates gaming.
I saw this a few days ago and decided not to make a fuss about it, due to the announcement of Asus 3dvision compatible 4k screen.


So, no .. not dead yet.

Get a monitor it's better anyway. I sit so close in my cockpit size is not an issue my 27 inch is basically a large tv anyway because of this. (and surround is another step up entirely)

tv's suck and have stupid amounts of input lag for gaming.

I agree Nvidia should have marketed 3dvision at the cinema somehow, show people what 3d actually looks like before they see there latest fake movie in 3d =) I think we would be seeing a different story now.
Everyone I have shown 3dvision to on a properly supported game have been simply blown away and all have mentioned "This is nothing like 3d movies, Now I get it."

Even my girlfriend wanted to play the witcher 3 after she saw it in 3d and she hates gaming.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#34
Posted 01/24/2017 09:50 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Interesting video. [/quote] lol, when I first started watching it I was thinking to myself...ughh another one of "those" guys. Then as I watched it it dawned on me that he was one of "them" guys. Better to be one of us, than one of "them", imho. It's amiss that there is not more of us, than "them" :(
bo3b said:Interesting video.


lol, when I first started watching it I was thinking to myself...ughh another one of "those" guys.

Then as I watched it it dawned on me that he was one of "them" guys.

Better to be one of us, than one of "them", imho.

It's amiss that there is not more of us, than "them" :(

#35
Posted 01/24/2017 10:05 AM   
I think you can find a ton of applicable quotes here: Zen and the Birds of Appetite by Thomas Merton Prob. the most famous: [quote] Where there is carrion lying, meat-eating birds circle and descend. Life and death are two. The living attack the dead, to their own profit. The dead lose nothing by it. They gain too, by being disposed of. Or they seem so, if you must think in terms of gain and loss. Do you then approach the study of Zen with the idea that there is something to be gained by it? This question is not intended as an implicit accusation. But it is, nevertheless, a serious question. Where there is a lot of fuss about "spirituality," "enlightenment" or just "turning on," it is often because there are buzzards hovering around the corpse. This hovering, this circling, this descending, this celebration of victory, are not what is meant by the Study of Zen -- even though they may be a highly useful exercise in other contexts. And they enrich the birds of appetite. Zen enriches no one. There is no body to be found. The birds may come and circle for a while in the place where it is thought to be. But they soon go elsewhere. When they are gone, the "nothing," the "no-body" that was there, suddenly appears. That is Zen. It was there all the time but the scavengers missed it, because it was not their kind of prey. [/quote]
I think you can find a ton of applicable quotes here:

Zen and the Birds of Appetite by Thomas Merton

Prob. the most famous:

Where there is carrion lying, meat-eating birds circle and descend. Life and death are two. The living attack the dead, to their own profit. The dead lose nothing by it. They gain too, by being disposed of. Or they seem so, if you must think in terms of gain and loss. Do you then approach the study of Zen with the idea that there is something to be gained by it? This question is not intended as an implicit accusation. But it is, nevertheless, a serious question. Where there is a lot of fuss about "spirituality," "enlightenment" or just "turning on," it is often because there are buzzards hovering around the corpse. This hovering, this circling, this descending, this celebration of victory, are not what is meant by the Study of Zen -- even though they may be a highly useful exercise in other contexts. And they enrich the birds of appetite.

Zen enriches no one. There is no body to be found. The birds may come and circle for a while in the place where it is thought to be. But they soon go elsewhere. When they are gone, the "nothing," the "no-body" that was there, suddenly appears. That is Zen. It was there all the time but the scavengers missed it, because it was not their kind of prey.

#36
Posted 01/24/2017 11:06 AM   
Here's a better video, with any luck, he's since discovered the Optimized for GeForce hack and the communty game patches :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XWtQ0jvJRc Hopefully, he's also discovered the advanced keyboard shortcuts :P
Here's a better video, with any luck, he's since discovered the Optimized for GeForce hack and the communty game patches :)



Hopefully, he's also discovered the advanced keyboard shortcuts :P

#37
Posted 01/24/2017 11:14 AM   
Step back guys and breeze: the main problem with 3D is not the 3D itself, it's glasses. Many studies proved it: people don't want to wear big and ugly glasses while watching movies at home. it's not user-friendly, it's impractical and it's expensive. Real glasses-free 3D display (in HD and multi-angle vision) will be the next big thing in home cinema and home entertainment. I believe that in a few years, every media contents (including gaming) will be in 3D (and/or AR) or in VR. Flat 2D display will belong to the past, it's just a matter of time.
Step back guys and breeze: the main problem with 3D is not the 3D itself, it's glasses. Many studies proved it: people don't want to wear big and ugly glasses while watching movies at home. it's not user-friendly, it's impractical and it's expensive.

Real glasses-free 3D display (in HD and multi-angle vision) will be the next big thing in home cinema and home entertainment. I believe that in a few years, every media contents (including gaming) will be in 3D (and/or AR) or in VR.

Flat 2D display will belong to the past, it's just a matter of time.

#38
Posted 01/24/2017 11:28 AM   
I agree, when they finally invent a glassesless 3d tv/monitor the entire game will change.
I agree, when they finally invent a glassesless 3d tv/monitor the entire game will change.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

#39
Posted 01/24/2017 12:27 PM   
Autostereo won't happen , and it's quixotic , because with large FOV you have too small sweetspot (1 user) , and on a mobile display with small FOV it doesn't matter if it's 3D , they can already do that . AR video glasses get around the sweetspot issue basically and these will be bulky for a good few years yet. I think low cost HUD glasses with detachable shuttering lens and 120hz+ screen is good compromise. Video glasses are too expensive / fragile . Offloading ingame HUD elements to a real world HUD sounds good to me. Basically not only glasses , but anywhere on a screen nearby, like Bethesda's collectors edition Pipboy .
Autostereo won't happen , and it's quixotic , because with large FOV you have too small sweetspot (1 user) ,

and on a mobile display with small FOV it doesn't matter if it's 3D , they can already do that .

AR video glasses get around the sweetspot issue basically and these will be bulky for a good few years yet.

I think low cost HUD glasses with detachable shuttering lens and 120hz+ screen is good compromise.
Video glasses are too expensive / fragile .

Offloading ingame HUD elements to a real world HUD sounds good to me. Basically not only glasses , but anywhere on a screen nearby, like Bethesda's collectors edition Pipboy .

#40
Posted 01/24/2017 01:36 PM   
I'm pretty sure toshiba made a 3D TV that didn't need glasses. A university has made a proof of concept 3D cinema screen without the need for glasses. The Nintendo 3DS uses a 3D screen without the need for glasses. Nvidia should have brought a 3D monitor out without the need for glasses. Who cares about viewing angles or how many people can watch at one time with a monitor? As long as one person can see it that's all that should matter. Nvidia should have been making something like this instead of the shield. IMO. Nvidia should at least keep 3D vision and 3D TV Play ticking along until that time.
I'm pretty sure toshiba made a 3D TV that didn't need glasses.
A university has made a proof of concept 3D cinema screen without the need for glasses.
The Nintendo 3DS uses a 3D screen without the need for glasses.

Nvidia should have brought a 3D monitor out without the need for glasses.
Who cares about viewing angles or how many people can watch at one time with a monitor?
As long as one person can see it that's all that should matter.

Nvidia should have been making something like this instead of the shield. IMO.

Nvidia should at least keep 3D vision and 3D TV Play ticking along until that time.

#41
Posted 01/24/2017 01:39 PM   
People with monitors are have ~1-2% ghosting and DLP projectors have on the order of 0.0x % . Autostereo screens with current technology have 5-10% ghosting in a small sweetspot , and it only gets much worse outside (you only need to move a little). It's not consumer ready, and the work around is to blank the screen if your head is out of the spot. If you want the spot to move with your head you need directional backlight , and that only works with transmissive display, (OLEDs have no backlight) , and current LCD-s have bad response time then overdrive artifacts and whatever.
People with monitors are have ~1-2% ghosting and DLP projectors have on the order of 0.0x % .

Autostereo screens with current technology have 5-10% ghosting in a small sweetspot , and it only gets much worse outside (you only need to move a little). It's not consumer ready, and the work around is to blank the screen if your head is out of the spot.


If you want the spot to move with your head you need directional backlight , and that only works with transmissive display, (OLEDs have no backlight) , and current LCD-s have bad response time then overdrive artifacts and whatever.

#42
Posted 01/24/2017 02:01 PM   
I honest don't think auto stereo is going to win over the masses 3D is natural way of viewing but people have seen 2D TV for so long and think it's natural way of viewing a TV picture. Also if 3D third round is going to be a knock out everything must work with very good to excellent results automatically. It has to very simple like putting a Blu-ray disc in a Blu-ray player.
I honest don't think auto stereo is going to win over the masses 3D is natural way of viewing but people have seen 2D TV for so long and think it's natural way of viewing a TV picture.


Also if 3D third round is going to be a knock out everything must work with very good to excellent results automatically. It has to very simple like putting a Blu-ray disc in a Blu-ray player.

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

#43
Posted 01/24/2017 02:59 PM   
Well, there are already some "HUD-free" Fallout4 "survival mode" videos on streaming portals . & Bethesda could level up their game thru partnership with nVidia well beyond the current PhysX and HBAO implementations, and we'd see some further Fallout inspired hardware besides the PipBoy, like "HUD shades", with a small resolution embedded microprojector with stg. like 640x360 pixels ,these are becoming a commodity right now. Next step beyond "HUD-free" (eg. real world HUD and extra screen space estate ) could be obviously stereo, with special lenses you can detach if you don't like the darkening. But then we know the darkening works as a contrast intensifier , probably that would add to the HDR effect if the screen can do it.
Well,
there are already some "HUD-free" Fallout4 "survival mode" videos on streaming portals .
&
Bethesda could level up their game thru partnership with nVidia well beyond the current PhysX and HBAO implementations,

and we'd see some further Fallout inspired hardware besides the PipBoy, like "HUD shades", with a small resolution embedded microprojector with stg. like 640x360 pixels ,these are becoming a commodity right now.


Next step beyond "HUD-free" (eg. real world HUD and extra screen space estate ) could be obviously stereo, with special lenses you can detach if you don't like the darkening.

But then we know the darkening works as a contrast intensifier , probably that would add to the HDR effect if the screen can do it.

#44
Posted 01/24/2017 03:52 PM   
[quote="ashiman"]Autostereo won't happen , and it's quixotic , because with large FOV you have too small sweetspot (1 user) , [/quote] So take a look at this article which is almost 3 years old: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/asus-4k-3d-monitor-specs,news-18912.html Also read this: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/02/the-glasses-free-technology-that-made-me-believe-in-3d-tv-again/ or look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9STBsPHIEPA And the tech will continue to be improved until it reaches the actual 3D vision norm. No doubt about it.
ashiman said:Autostereo won't happen , and it's quixotic , because with large FOV you have too small sweetspot (1 user) ,


So take a look at this article which is almost 3 years old:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/asus-4k-3d-monitor-specs,news-18912.html

Also read this:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/02/the-glasses-free-technology-that-made-me-believe-in-3d-tv-again/

or look at this:



And the tech will continue to be improved until it reaches the actual 3D vision norm. No doubt about it.

#45
Posted 01/24/2017 07:31 PM   
  3 / 6    
Scroll To Top