I am getting severe ghosting at the top of the screen (about 10% of the total screen space). It's as if the glasses weren't working at all for this section. This occurs in all games no matter the driver used.
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).
I am getting severe ghosting at the top of the screen (about 10% of the total screen space). It's as if the glasses weren't working at all for this section. This occurs in all games no matter the driver used.
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).
Ok..looking at it more, it's more about 15% of the image. It happens in all games (the double image at the top screen). This is no matter the game (including the nVidia test demo). I am just curious if everyone sees this or if I have a defective monitor/glasses setup and should do a return on it.
Ok..looking at it more, it's more about 15% of the image. It happens in all games (the double image at the top screen). This is no matter the game (including the nVidia test demo). I am just curious if everyone sees this or if I have a defective monitor/glasses setup and should do a return on it.
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504392' date='Feb 11 2009, 11:05 AM']Ok..looking at it more, it's more about 15% of the image. It happens in all games (the double image at the top screen). This is no matter the game (including the nVidia test demo). I am just curious if everyone sees this or if I have a defective monitor/glasses setup and should do a return on it.[/quote]
Maybe this is what I'm seeing. I noticed yesterday independently that in the left eye/right eye test in the setup wizard, the top row of shapes shows severe ghosting, but the bottom two rows don't. Do you see something similar?
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504392' date='Feb 11 2009, 11:05 AM']Ok..looking at it more, it's more about 15% of the image. It happens in all games (the double image at the top screen). This is no matter the game (including the nVidia test demo). I am just curious if everyone sees this or if I have a defective monitor/glasses setup and should do a return on it.
Maybe this is what I'm seeing. I noticed yesterday independently that in the left eye/right eye test in the setup wizard, the top row of shapes shows severe ghosting, but the bottom two rows don't. Do you see something similar?
[quote name='rkuo' post='504456' date='Feb 11 2009, 03:41 PM']Maybe this is what I'm seeing. I noticed yesterday independently that in the left eye/right eye test in the setup wizard, the top row of shapes shows severe ghosting, but the bottom two rows don't. Do you see something similar?[/quote]
Hi
Did you let your monitor warm up for at least 30 mins before doing this analysis?
[quote name='rkuo' post='504456' date='Feb 11 2009, 03:41 PM']Maybe this is what I'm seeing. I noticed yesterday independently that in the left eye/right eye test in the setup wizard, the top row of shapes shows severe ghosting, but the bottom two rows don't. Do you see something similar?
Hi
Did you let your monitor warm up for at least 30 mins before doing this analysis?
Yes, this was after 3 hours of the monitor being on.
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.
Yes, this was after 3 hours of the monitor being on.
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504503' date='Feb 11 2009, 04:21 PM']Yes, this was after 3 hours of the monitor being on.
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.[/quote]
Are you sure that the issue is limited to the top of your screen?
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504503' date='Feb 11 2009, 04:21 PM']Yes, this was after 3 hours of the monitor being on.
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.
Are you sure that the issue is limited to the top of your screen?
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.
[quote name='Paul Benden' post='504536' date='Feb 11 2009, 04:44 PM']Are you sure that the issue is limited to the top of your screen?
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.[/quote]
Yes, I am sure. The top of the screen is more like a double image (entirely..no ghosting..it's entirely doubled).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).
[quote name='Paul Benden' post='504536' date='Feb 11 2009, 04:44 PM']Are you sure that the issue is limited to the top of your screen?
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.
Yes, I am sure. The top of the screen is more like a double image (entirely..no ghosting..it's entirely doubled).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504579' date='Feb 11 2009, 09:19 PM']Yes, I am sure. The top of the screen is more like a double image (entirely..no ghosting..it's entirely doubled).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).[/quote]
Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504579' date='Feb 11 2009, 09:19 PM']Yes, I am sure. The top of the screen is more like a double image (entirely..no ghosting..it's entirely doubled).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).
Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504614' date='Feb 11 2009, 09:06 PM']Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.[/quote]
I've had the monitor on for 30 min as well.
I'm still trying to narrow down the problem.
One, I don't understand how in the left/right eye test only the top row of shapes has severe ghosting. It seems unlikely that the video card or software is accidentally showing an incorrect image for the top row of shapes. Seems to point to the monitor.
Two, 100 Hz seems to help with black white ghosting, but the flicker is too much. I think this may be the glasses not blocking enough light
Three, I do see negative image ghosting in certain types of images ... I will post some in game screenshots. Mirror's edge really exposes a lot of ghosting issues. Perhaps the monitor is overdriving certain color changes incorrectly.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504614' date='Feb 11 2009, 09:06 PM']Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
I've had the monitor on for 30 min as well.
I'm still trying to narrow down the problem.
One, I don't understand how in the left/right eye test only the top row of shapes has severe ghosting. It seems unlikely that the video card or software is accidentally showing an incorrect image for the top row of shapes. Seems to point to the monitor.
Two, 100 Hz seems to help with black white ghosting, but the flicker is too much. I think this may be the glasses not blocking enough light
Three, I do see negative image ghosting in certain types of images ... I will post some in game screenshots. Mirror's edge really exposes a lot of ghosting issues. Perhaps the monitor is overdriving certain color changes incorrectly.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504614' date='Feb 11 2009, 09:06 PM']Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.[/quote]
I am going to exchange the monitor since the ultra bright band at the top due to back light bleeding might be causing my double image problems at the top of the screen.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504614' date='Feb 11 2009, 09:06 PM']Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
I am going to exchange the monitor since the ultra bright band at the top due to back light bleeding might be causing my double image problems at the top of the screen.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504614' date='Feb 11 2009, 10:06 PM']Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.[/quote]
I have the exact same issue as Ulrick28, severe ghosting at the top of the screen (2233RZ), and I first noticed it with the set-up utility with 'shadows' on the top row of the left-eye shapes.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504614' date='Feb 11 2009, 10:06 PM']Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
I have the exact same issue as Ulrick28, severe ghosting at the top of the screen (2233RZ), and I first noticed it with the set-up utility with 'shadows' on the top row of the left-eye shapes.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?
[quote name='mrelamont' post='517680' date='Mar 13 2009, 12:35 AM']I have the exact same issue as Ulrick28, severe ghosting at the top of the screen (2233RZ), and I first noticed it with the set-up utility with 'shadows' on the top row of the left-eye shapes.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?[/quote]
I did figure out more about this issue, which I posted in another thread. Basically, the monitor *is* refreshing from top to bottom and this is what is causing the majority of the ghosting. There is no "correct" time to shutter each lens so nVidia basically has to time the shuttering to be "centered". I don't think this can be fixed without a rev of the monitor hardware.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.
[quote name='mrelamont' post='517680' date='Mar 13 2009, 12:35 AM']I have the exact same issue as Ulrick28, severe ghosting at the top of the screen (2233RZ), and I first noticed it with the set-up utility with 'shadows' on the top row of the left-eye shapes.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?
I did figure out more about this issue, which I posted in another thread. Basically, the monitor *is* refreshing from top to bottom and this is what is causing the majority of the ghosting. There is no "correct" time to shutter each lens so nVidia basically has to time the shuttering to be "centered". I don't think this can be fixed without a rev of the monitor hardware.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.
[quote name='rkuo' post='517906' date='Mar 13 2009, 12:17 PM']I did figure out more about this issue, which I posted in another thread. Basically, the monitor *is* refreshing from top to bottom and this is what is causing the majority of the ghosting. There is no "correct" time to shutter each lens so nVidia basically has to time the shuttering to be "centered". I don't think this can be fixed without a rev of the monitor hardware.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.[/quote]
I'm still convinced there should be an optimal timing for the shuttering. With a CRT monitor there is a "vertical blanking interval", the time it takes the ray to return to the top of the screen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBI). This was inherited by LCD monitors as well (it's a useful time to send non-image data like tv guide data or parental ratings, etc.). It is during this VBI that you want one of the shutters open.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.
[quote name='rkuo' post='517906' date='Mar 13 2009, 12:17 PM']I did figure out more about this issue, which I posted in another thread. Basically, the monitor *is* refreshing from top to bottom and this is what is causing the majority of the ghosting. There is no "correct" time to shutter each lens so nVidia basically has to time the shuttering to be "centered". I don't think this can be fixed without a rev of the monitor hardware.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.
I'm still convinced there should be an optimal timing for the shuttering. With a CRT monitor there is a "vertical blanking interval", the time it takes the ray to return to the top of the screen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBI). This was inherited by LCD monitors as well (it's a useful time to send non-image data like tv guide data or parental ratings, etc.). It is during this VBI that you want one of the shutters open.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.
[quote name='mrelamont' post='518028' date='Mar 13 2009, 04:28 PM']I'm still convinced there should be an optimal timing for the shuttering. With a CRT monitor there is a "vertical blanking interval", the time it takes the ray to return to the top of the screen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBI). This was inherited by LCD monitors as well (it's a useful time to send non-image data like tv guide data or parental ratings, etc.). It is during this VBI that you want one of the shutters open.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.[/quote]
You should probably look harder ... the ghosting is definitely there on the bottom, but depending on the type of ghosting may be reversed or less noticeable than at the top. In other image situations ghosting might be more severe at the bottom than the top.
[quote name='mrelamont' post='518028' date='Mar 13 2009, 04:28 PM']I'm still convinced there should be an optimal timing for the shuttering. With a CRT monitor there is a "vertical blanking interval", the time it takes the ray to return to the top of the screen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBI). This was inherited by LCD monitors as well (it's a useful time to send non-image data like tv guide data or parental ratings, etc.). It is during this VBI that you want one of the shutters open.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.
You should probably look harder ... the ghosting is definitely there on the bottom, but depending on the type of ghosting may be reversed or less noticeable than at the top. In other image situations ghosting might be more severe at the bottom than the top.
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).
The lenses are not doing full opacity like they should.
Contact the store you bought the product.
The lenses are not doing full opacity like they should.
Contact the store you bought the product.
Maybe this is what I'm seeing. I noticed yesterday independently that in the left eye/right eye test in the setup wizard, the top row of shapes shows severe ghosting, but the bottom two rows don't. Do you see something similar?
Maybe this is what I'm seeing. I noticed yesterday independently that in the left eye/right eye test in the setup wizard, the top row of shapes shows severe ghosting, but the bottom two rows don't. Do you see something similar?
Hi
Did you let your monitor warm up for at least 30 mins before doing this analysis?
Hi
Did you let your monitor warm up for at least 30 mins before doing this analysis?
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504469' date='Feb 11 2009, 02:15 PM']Hi
Did you let your monitor warm up for at least 30 mins before doing this analysis?[/quote]
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='504469' date='Feb 11 2009, 02:15 PM']Hi
Did you let your monitor warm up for at least 30 mins before doing this analysis?
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.[/quote]
Are you sure that the issue is limited to the top of your screen?
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.
It's not the glasses because it's only at the top of the screen and it doesn't matter where my eyes are in relation of the screen (ie, if I am looking at the middle of the screen I see the problem across the top, if I raise my height so that I am centered at the top of the screen, I still see the problem). if it were the glasses the entire screen would have the issue not just the top.
Yes, in the left eye/right eye test the top row of shapes have a shadow of another shape (ie, if it's the green 5 sided shape, then I will see part of the blue triangle on the top row..but instead of blue it's a darker green). Same for right eye. I also get some backlight bleed across the top and bottom of the monitor but I doubt this is the cause since the problem only occurs at the top and this is a common problem on all LCD monitors.
Oh, how do I verify that dynamic contrast is off ?(I checked in the hud and my magic bright was set to custom).
I do wonder if maybe the glasses are switching a tad bit too late so they are only switching correctly on part of the frame and not the whole frame.
Are you sure that the issue is limited to the top of your screen?
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.[/quote]
Yes, I am sure. The top of the screen is more like a double image (entirely..no ghosting..it's entirely doubled).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).
I have a similar issue, but I see ghosting when I look at dark objects against a light background. This often happens at the top of my screen in WoW when I look at moutains and such because the mountains are usually darker than the sky. However, I see this almost anywhere I see a dark object against a light background. I see it when I'm looking at mobs against snow and in all sorts of similar situations.
Before you attribute it solely to the top of your monitor, try and duplicate similar lighting conditions in various locations on your monitor and see if you get similar ghosting.
Yes, I am sure. The top of the screen is more like a double image (entirely..no ghosting..it's entirely doubled).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).[/quote]
Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
I get the ghosting that you describe as well with light objects on dark backgrounds. I get negative versions of the object on each side of it(usually it looks like black after images). I believe this is due to the lcd not being able to switch from white to black fast enough to keep up with 120 hz).
Do this for me. Try rerunning the 3D Vision setup wizard and selecting 110 or 100 Hz when you get to the step about "Do you notice flickering in your peripheral vision". By selecting 110 or 100 Hz there, we override the in-game refresh rate value to be at the value you select in the Setup Wizard. Id like to know if the ghosting is reduced for you then.
I've had the monitor on for 30 min as well.
I'm still trying to narrow down the problem.
One, I don't understand how in the left/right eye test only the top row of shapes has severe ghosting. It seems unlikely that the video card or software is accidentally showing an incorrect image for the top row of shapes. Seems to point to the monitor.
Two, 100 Hz seems to help with black white ghosting, but the flicker is too much. I think this may be the glasses not blocking enough light
Three, I do see negative image ghosting in certain types of images ... I will post some in game screenshots. Mirror's edge really exposes a lot of ghosting issues. Perhaps the monitor is overdriving certain color changes incorrectly.
I've had the monitor on for 30 min as well.
I'm still trying to narrow down the problem.
One, I don't understand how in the left/right eye test only the top row of shapes has severe ghosting. It seems unlikely that the video card or software is accidentally showing an incorrect image for the top row of shapes. Seems to point to the monitor.
Two, 100 Hz seems to help with black white ghosting, but the flicker is too much. I think this may be the glasses not blocking enough light
Three, I do see negative image ghosting in certain types of images ... I will post some in game screenshots. Mirror's edge really exposes a lot of ghosting issues. Perhaps the monitor is overdriving certain color changes incorrectly.
I am going to exchange the monitor since the ultra bright band at the top due to back light bleeding might be causing my double image problems at the top of the screen.
I am going to exchange the monitor since the ultra bright band at the top due to back light bleeding might be causing my double image problems at the top of the screen.
I have the exact same issue as Ulrick28, severe ghosting at the top of the screen (2233RZ), and I first noticed it with the set-up utility with 'shadows' on the top row of the left-eye shapes.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?
I have the exact same issue as Ulrick28, severe ghosting at the top of the screen (2233RZ), and I first noticed it with the set-up utility with 'shadows' on the top row of the left-eye shapes.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?[/quote]
I did figure out more about this issue, which I posted in another thread. Basically, the monitor *is* refreshing from top to bottom and this is what is causing the majority of the ghosting. There is no "correct" time to shutter each lens so nVidia basically has to time the shuttering to be "centered". I don't think this can be fixed without a rev of the monitor hardware.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.
I've tried 110 and 110 Hz, the monitor has been on for hours, etc. Is this a problem with the glasses or the monitor? Has anyone that experienced this found a solution yet?
Is there a way to tweak the timing of the glasses? I can understand having high-contrast ghosting if the pixels cannot change fast enough, but this seems more of a timing issue. If I assume that the screen takes time refreshing from top to bottom, and that the glasses toggle on/off uniformly (not top-to-bottom), then it seems I'm switching to my left eye too late, after it has started it's top-down refresh for the right eye. Perhaps a lot of the ghosting problems some people are having could be corrected with an adjustment to the timing?
Or I could be way off, and I've screwed up my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure how... Either way, I'm definitely seeing both images (left/right) with both eyes at the top of the screen, slightly worse for the left than the right, so I'm getting no 3D imaging at the top.
P.S. Did exchanging your monitor solve your issues, Ulrick28?
I did figure out more about this issue, which I posted in another thread. Basically, the monitor *is* refreshing from top to bottom and this is what is causing the majority of the ghosting. There is no "correct" time to shutter each lens so nVidia basically has to time the shuttering to be "centered". I don't think this can be fixed without a rev of the monitor hardware.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.[/quote]
I'm still convinced there should be an optimal timing for the shuttering. With a CRT monitor there is a "vertical blanking interval", the time it takes the ray to return to the top of the screen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBI). This was inherited by LCD monitors as well (it's a useful time to send non-image data like tv guide data or parental ratings, etc.). It is during this VBI that you want one of the shutters open.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.
It's really a shame ... I hope newer displays fix the issue.
Switching to 110Hz helps this slightly and does not cause much flickering in my perception, so I'm using that for now. 100Hz is immediately flickery, so that setting is out.
I'm still convinced there should be an optimal timing for the shuttering. With a CRT monitor there is a "vertical blanking interval", the time it takes the ray to return to the top of the screen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBI). This was inherited by LCD monitors as well (it's a useful time to send non-image data like tv guide data or parental ratings, etc.). It is during this VBI that you want one of the shutters open.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.[/quote]
You should probably look harder ... the ghosting is definitely there on the bottom, but depending on the type of ghosting may be reversed or less noticeable than at the top. In other image situations ghosting might be more severe at the bottom than the top.
I'm convinced that my glasses are shuttering too late and missing the VBI window, which is why I can see both the left and right images at the top of the screen, as the next image begins to form for the other eye. The MUST be a way to adjust the timing.
If it is as you suggest, rkuo, that the monitor just isn't good enough, the optimal condition would have the timing set for the middle of the screen, as you pointed out. In this case, I'd have issues at the top AND bottom. The bottom works great, though, so I'm sure I'm not centered in the VBI... Can anyone at NVidia confirm my suspicions? And, perhaps, let me know how to fix this? Do I need to send my brand new monitor and shutter glasses back for replacement?
And I'd also be curious to know how the glasses time their shuttering. Is there a feedback of some sort or are there a lot of assumptions involved. If there's a feedback, then I may need to replace the glasses. If there are assumptions, then my setup does not meet them and a user-accessible 'timing tweak' seems necessary.
You should probably look harder ... the ghosting is definitely there on the bottom, but depending on the type of ghosting may be reversed or less noticeable than at the top. In other image situations ghosting might be more severe at the bottom than the top.