Theory about DX11 issues (AC3, Bioshock). Could lead to a fix.
So I'm not an expert on this stuff, and it may well be known. Or I could be totally wrong. But fire up AC3 and Bioshock Infinite in 3d, and have a walk around instead of turning away in disgust.
Look for areas away from dynamic lighting. It seems to me like areas with less interesting lighting tend to not break in 3d. It might not be dynamic lighting as such, but areas of more uniform light (outside in AC, indoors without much lighting in Bioshock) seem to be okay, and seem to fix the weirdness on characters (AC3), environments, and weapons.
Is it possible we don't need a fix for shaders, but one for lighting? Perhaps the two are one and the same (or there's some crossover), but it seems to me like it's the lighting that's causing the major problems.
So I'm not an expert on this stuff, and it may well be known. Or I could be totally wrong. But fire up AC3 and Bioshock Infinite in 3d, and have a walk around instead of turning away in disgust.
Look for areas away from dynamic lighting. It seems to me like areas with less interesting lighting tend to not break in 3d. It might not be dynamic lighting as such, but areas of more uniform light (outside in AC, indoors without much lighting in Bioshock) seem to be okay, and seem to fix the weirdness on characters (AC3), environments, and weapons.
Is it possible we don't need a fix for shaders, but one for lighting? Perhaps the two are one and the same (or there's some crossover), but it seems to me like it's the lighting that's causing the major problems.
Lighting is implemented in Shaders. Shaders (Vertex and Pixel and, in DX10/11, geometry) are the code elements that implement all these graphical features like lighting, shadows, blur etc etc. The problems that occur in Stereo 3d are (mostly) with a technique called "deferred rendering" where 3d geometry is recreated in the Pixel Shader (which is basically working on the screen space image) from information available there, but which does not take into account the fact that the nvidia driver has applied a 'hidden' stereo shift and so it gets out of sync. The Helix type fixes aim to tackle this by 'inserting' the stereo shift in the correct place (either in the Pixel Shader or a related Vertex Shader) so it all works properly. Also note this is not a DX11 issue - it's DX9-11. The DX11 "issue" is that the technique devised by Helix to fix DX9 games uses a feature of DX9 that is not available in DX10/11 (runtime shader load and compilation).
Lighting is implemented in Shaders. Shaders (Vertex and Pixel and, in DX10/11, geometry) are the code elements that implement all these graphical features like lighting, shadows, blur etc etc. The problems that occur in Stereo 3d are (mostly) with a technique called "deferred rendering" where 3d geometry is recreated in the Pixel Shader (which is basically working on the screen space image) from information available there, but which does not take into account the fact that the nvidia driver has applied a 'hidden' stereo shift and so it gets out of sync. The Helix type fixes aim to tackle this by 'inserting' the stereo shift in the correct place (either in the Pixel Shader or a related Vertex Shader) so it all works properly. Also note this is not a DX11 issue - it's DX9-11. The DX11 "issue" is that the technique devised by Helix to fix DX9 games uses a feature of DX9 that is not available in DX10/11 (runtime shader load and compilation).
Developer could do it but they have very little incentive. Asking an AMD game for 3d vision support is like asking a hammer to screw.
I've said it multiple times though, Helix didnt say fixing DX11 games is impossible he said this.
"Nope, I already said that for now fixing DX10/DX11 games is impossible.
I still don't have time to finish DX10/DX11 wrapper and I doubt that it can be done till summer."
Developer could do it but they have very little incentive. Asking an AMD game for 3d vision support is like asking a hammer to screw.
I've said it multiple times though, Helix didnt say fixing DX11 games is impossible he said this.
"Nope, I already said that for now fixing DX10/DX11 games is impossible.
I still don't have time to finish DX10/DX11 wrapper and I doubt that it can be done till summer."
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
[quote="eqzitara"] Developer could do it but they have very little incentive. Asking an AMD game for 3d vision support is like asking a hammer to screw.
I've said it multiple times though, Helix didnt say fixing DX11 games is impossible he said this.
"Nope, I already said that for now fixing DX10/DX11 games is impossible.
I still don't have time to finish DX10/DX11 wrapper and I doubt that it can be done till summer."[/quote]
I'm not sure how to read this, does he mean: "I am working on a wrapper, however, I'm busy so it will take till summer (or later) to finish it?"
If that's the case I'll skip every DX11 release for the time being and wait patiently !! ;-)
eqzitara said: Developer could do it but they have very little incentive. Asking an AMD game for 3d vision support is like asking a hammer to screw.
I've said it multiple times though, Helix didnt say fixing DX11 games is impossible he said this.
"Nope, I already said that for now fixing DX10/DX11 games is impossible.
I still don't have time to finish DX10/DX11 wrapper and I doubt that it can be done till summer."
I'm not sure how to read this, does he mean: "I am working on a wrapper, however, I'm busy so it will take till summer (or later) to finish it?"
If that's the case I'll skip every DX11 release for the time being and wait patiently !! ;-)
Well let's not jump the gun. I read it as as of this moment on current wrapper its not possible but he is hopeful he can get something going but won't have time till summer to try it out.
Im pretty sure even if he does get it working, its not going to be easy enough to warrant fixing every game. Something tells me if he's able to do DX11 its literally just going to be Helix. Like no more games from me and everyone else. *Fades into sunset*
Well let's not jump the gun. I read it as as of this moment on current wrapper its not possible but he is hopeful he can get something going but won't have time till summer to try it out.
Im pretty sure even if he does get it working, its not going to be easy enough to warrant fixing every game. Something tells me if he's able to do DX11 its literally just going to be Helix. Like no more games from me and everyone else. *Fades into sunset*
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I just saw this on MSDN ([url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb509703(v=vs.85).aspx[/url] )::
Differences between Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 10:
Unlike Direct3D 9 shader models which could be authored in an intermediate assembly language, shader model 4.0 shaders are only authored in HLSL. Offline compilation of shaders into device-consumable bytecode is still supported, and recommended for most scenarios.
So the main issue for the rest of us, it seems, is that any external fixes will be to HLSL code, not ASM. As long as you know C++ this might not be the worst thing in the world, HLSL is very pseudocode-like, and I have found it really useful in understanding algorithms by looking at HLSL. I have been looking at Crysis and Crysis2 lately (nightmare, completely stuck...) and developed best understanding of what the heck is going on in the ASM by Googling and finding HLSL examples - in fact a site that was modifying the HLSL shaders to fix issues in Crysis Wars, so it seems this has been done before already. I still have no clue how to fix the broken shadows mind you, but I have a better understanding of what the variables are and so on, and how I might diagnose the problem (in the far distant future if my current efforts are to go by...). It might also be possible using a HLSL approach to make more extensive corrections, like accessing Transformation Matrices that are not coded in by default, matrix inverse functions and so on - but I have no idea if this is actually the case.
Differences between Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 10:
Unlike Direct3D 9 shader models which could be authored in an intermediate assembly language, shader model 4.0 shaders are only authored in HLSL. Offline compilation of shaders into device-consumable bytecode is still supported, and recommended for most scenarios.
So the main issue for the rest of us, it seems, is that any external fixes will be to HLSL code, not ASM. As long as you know C++ this might not be the worst thing in the world, HLSL is very pseudocode-like, and I have found it really useful in understanding algorithms by looking at HLSL. I have been looking at Crysis and Crysis2 lately (nightmare, completely stuck...) and developed best understanding of what the heck is going on in the ASM by Googling and finding HLSL examples - in fact a site that was modifying the HLSL shaders to fix issues in Crysis Wars, so it seems this has been done before already. I still have no clue how to fix the broken shadows mind you, but I have a better understanding of what the variables are and so on, and how I might diagnose the problem (in the far distant future if my current efforts are to go by...). It might also be possible using a HLSL approach to make more extensive corrections, like accessing Transformation Matrices that are not coded in by default, matrix inverse functions and so on - but I have no idea if this is actually the case.
That link didn't work for me, and I don't really understand the intricacies of what you're talking about. But it sounds like there's some hope - so that's great! :)
That link didn't work for me, and I don't really understand the intricacies of what you're talking about. But it sounds like there's some hope - so that's great! :)
It's great to hear Helix saying that the dx11 wrapper could be done, just not right now. If he really is able to do it, we'd secure 3d gaming for at least half a decade, that would be amazing. Together with next gen consoles probably being the first ever that are going to go hand in hand with PC from day one, we would be getting LOTS of amazing games playable in 3d. This is one of the few cases where consoles locked hardware is great, since most PC games will be dx11 compatible in the coming years due to console hardware being limited on supporting any new dx released, so basically we'd probably get dx11 compatible games at least for the whole life span of the next gen consoles.
It's great to hear Helix saying that the dx11 wrapper could be done, just not right now. If he really is able to do it, we'd secure 3d gaming for at least half a decade, that would be amazing. Together with next gen consoles probably being the first ever that are going to go hand in hand with PC from day one, we would be getting LOTS of amazing games playable in 3d. This is one of the few cases where consoles locked hardware is great, since most PC games will be dx11 compatible in the coming years due to console hardware being limited on supporting any new dx released, so basically we'd probably get dx11 compatible games at least for the whole life span of the next gen consoles.
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
Look for areas away from dynamic lighting. It seems to me like areas with less interesting lighting tend to not break in 3d. It might not be dynamic lighting as such, but areas of more uniform light (outside in AC, indoors without much lighting in Bioshock) seem to be okay, and seem to fix the weirdness on characters (AC3), environments, and weapons.
Is it possible we don't need a fix for shaders, but one for lighting? Perhaps the two are one and the same (or there's some crossover), but it seems to me like it's the lighting that's causing the major problems.
Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278
I've said it multiple times though, Helix didnt say fixing DX11 games is impossible he said this.
"Nope, I already said that for now fixing DX10/DX11 games is impossible.
I still don't have time to finish DX10/DX11 wrapper and I doubt that it can be done till summer."
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I'm not sure how to read this, does he mean: "I am working on a wrapper, however, I'm busy so it will take till summer (or later) to finish it?"
If that's the case I'll skip every DX11 release for the time being and wait patiently !! ;-)
Im pretty sure even if he does get it working, its not going to be easy enough to warrant fixing every game. Something tells me if he's able to do DX11 its literally just going to be Helix. Like no more games from me and everyone else. *Fades into sunset*
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I totally agree!
Differences between Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 10:
Unlike Direct3D 9 shader models which could be authored in an intermediate assembly language, shader model 4.0 shaders are only authored in HLSL. Offline compilation of shaders into device-consumable bytecode is still supported, and recommended for most scenarios.
So the main issue for the rest of us, it seems, is that any external fixes will be to HLSL code, not ASM. As long as you know C++ this might not be the worst thing in the world, HLSL is very pseudocode-like, and I have found it really useful in understanding algorithms by looking at HLSL. I have been looking at Crysis and Crysis2 lately (nightmare, completely stuck...) and developed best understanding of what the heck is going on in the ASM by Googling and finding HLSL examples - in fact a site that was modifying the HLSL shaders to fix issues in Crysis Wars, so it seems this has been done before already. I still have no clue how to fix the broken shadows mind you, but I have a better understanding of what the variables are and so on, and how I might diagnose the problem (in the far distant future if my current efforts are to go by...). It might also be possible using a HLSL approach to make more extensive corrections, like accessing Transformation Matrices that are not coded in by default, matrix inverse functions and so on - but I have no idea if this is actually the case.
Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278
Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
Birthright - If 11.1 becomes standard, in theory everything should work out of the box.
Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278