No mention of 3D vision in new driver Highlights / Changelogs
  3 / 5    
The primary reason many new games look bad in 3D is because most game developers do not care about 3D. If most game developers cared about 3D, then most new games would look good in 3D. The best Nvidia can do is try to fix games which have flaws in 3D. Many new games are primarily made for consoles with weak hardware. In order to improve performance on weak consoles, they make graphical sacrifices such as using 2D graphics instead of 3D. On a 2D monitor, 2D graphics look fine, but in 3D, it's a problem. For games to look perfect in 3D, every graphical object in the game should be an actual 3D object. If you want future games to look good in 3D, you better start complaining to game developers because complaining to Nvidia will not be enough. Fixing all these new games is not easy and sometimes there is no fix and even if there is fix, it may not be perfect. The best way to fix 3D is for game developers to fix their game. They have the game source code and game engine editor. Me, you, and Nvidia ... we don't have the game source code or game editor. Imagine trying to fix a bug in Windows. It's much much easier (and more legal) for Microsoft to fix bugs in windows than us users to hack/alter windows to make a fix or workaround. To my knowledge, normally, game companies do not give their game source code to Nvidia or any outside parties. Do you all remember PC games back in the 1980's and 1990's? Back then, when a new game would release, there would be a readme file. In the readme file, hardware requirements and compatible hardware were listed. It was the game developers job to be sure that their game was compatible with current OS/software/hardware. Nowadays, it is different. When a new game is released with issues/bugs, gamers immediately turn to AMD/Nvidia and say, please fix this game. It's always been my belief that it's primarily the developers job to ensure that there game works properly with the required hardware/software. Nvidia may be able to make some driver optimizations, but there should not be major graphical issues/bugs/flaws on day one release. Major issues/bugs/flaws indicate that the developers released a defective product which is not fully compatible with the required OS/software/hardware/drivers.
The primary reason many new games look bad in 3D is because most game developers do not care about 3D. If most game developers cared about 3D, then most new games would look good in 3D.

The best Nvidia can do is try to fix games which have flaws in 3D.
Many new games are primarily made for consoles with weak hardware.
In order to improve performance on weak consoles, they make graphical sacrifices such as using 2D graphics instead of 3D. On a 2D monitor, 2D graphics look fine, but in 3D, it's a problem. For games to look perfect in 3D, every graphical object in the game should be an actual 3D object.

If you want future games to look good in 3D, you better start complaining to game developers because complaining to Nvidia will not be enough. Fixing all these new games is not easy and sometimes there is no fix and even if there is fix, it may not be perfect. The best way to fix 3D is for game developers to fix their game. They have the game source code and game engine editor. Me, you, and Nvidia ... we don't have the game source code or game editor. Imagine trying to fix a bug in Windows. It's much much easier (and more legal) for Microsoft to fix bugs in windows than us users to hack/alter windows to make a fix or workaround. To my knowledge, normally, game companies do not give their game source code to Nvidia or any outside parties.

Do you all remember PC games back in the 1980's and 1990's? Back then, when a new game would release, there would be a readme file. In the readme file, hardware requirements and compatible hardware were listed. It was the game developers job to be sure that their game was compatible with current OS/software/hardware. Nowadays, it is different. When a new game is released with issues/bugs, gamers immediately turn to AMD/Nvidia and say, please fix this game.

It's always been my belief that it's primarily the developers job to ensure that there game works properly with the required hardware/software. Nvidia may be able to make some driver optimizations, but there should not be major graphical issues/bugs/flaws on day one release. Major issues/bugs/flaws indicate that the developers released a defective product which is not fully compatible with the required OS/software/hardware/drivers.

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
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#31
Posted 05/28/2013 11:09 AM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]I think what you're overlooking is that the vast majority of new titles (with a few notable exceptions) are perfectly playable in 3d, after Helix, DHR, eqzitara, b3b and others get their hands on them.[/quote] [quote="Partol"] The best Nvidia can do is try to fix games which have flaws in 3D..[/quote] see, Nvidia fail even to do this. Helix and co shouldn't need to get their hands on those games or they should be paid by Nvidia for doing so. I don't bother with any positive spin for the sake of Nvidia if there's no straight answer to this question: why does 3D vision community need to do Nvidia's job?
Pirateguybrush said:I think what you're overlooking is that the vast majority of new titles (with a few notable exceptions) are perfectly playable in 3d, after Helix, DHR, eqzitara, b3b and others get their hands on them.


Partol said:

The best Nvidia can do is try to fix games which have flaws in 3D..


see, Nvidia fail even to do this. Helix and co shouldn't need to get their hands on those games or they should be paid by Nvidia for doing so.

I don't bother with any positive spin for the sake of Nvidia if there's no straight answer to this question: why does 3D vision community need to do Nvidia's job?

epenny size =/= nerdiness

#32
Posted 05/28/2013 01:08 PM   
I agree. nVidia should be doing it. But to say "nvidia has'nt had a working game in ages" isn't completely true, as the games work (after fixes).
I agree. nVidia should be doing it. But to say "nvidia has'nt had a working game in ages" isn't completely true, as the games work (after fixes).

#33
Posted 05/28/2013 01:24 PM   
My way to see all this...Nvidia introduce a new tech (3D vision/3DTV play) and try for 2 years to devs include in their games (with a budget), but NO, devs don't give a s**t about 3D, even if they pay for it...so is reasonable to Nvidia try others stuff (like mobile) to make money (they move on)...is a company, they work for earn money (all companies do). Oculus Rift is another tech, they will make same movement than Nvidia with devs (try to make devs include in their games)....but if devs don't give a s**t about OR, we would see the same situation in the future....or maybe for Oculus Rift there will be another guy like Helix making Oculus Rift work by patching games....that's how communities are born. Almost same story with Tridef, the difference is Tridef products are limited...so they need Ignition (the star) works in order so survive in the market (we know the iz3d end), so they make the effort and invest. If Oculus Rift get more and more attention, is not doubt Tridef will support OR in the future (remember there are companies and want to make money). So, if we have to blame someone here....blame devs, not Nvidia or AMD or Tridef or OR.
My way to see all this...Nvidia introduce a new tech (3D vision/3DTV play) and try for 2 years to devs include in their games (with a budget), but NO, devs don't give a s**t about 3D, even if they pay for it...so is reasonable to Nvidia try others stuff (like mobile) to make money (they move on)...is a company, they work for earn money (all companies do).

Oculus Rift is another tech, they will make same movement than Nvidia with devs (try to make devs include in their games)....but if devs don't give a s**t about OR, we would see the same situation in the future....or maybe for Oculus Rift there will be another guy like Helix making Oculus Rift work by patching games....that's how communities are born.

Almost same story with Tridef, the difference is Tridef products are limited...so they need Ignition (the star) works in order so survive in the market (we know the iz3d end), so they make the effort and invest. If Oculus Rift get more and more attention, is not doubt Tridef will support OR in the future (remember there are companies and want to make money).

So, if we have to blame someone here....blame devs, not Nvidia or AMD or Tridef or OR.

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#34
Posted 05/28/2013 01:48 PM   
DHR, Tridef already works with OR, there are vids around of a guy playing Bioshock 2 with tridef on OR. I agree with teardropmina, it's so hard to believe that Helix and others can fix 3d on games in about a week, yet Nvidia and devs don't care at all about it, it's ridiculous.
DHR, Tridef already works with OR, there are vids around of a guy playing Bioshock 2 with tridef on OR.

I agree with teardropmina, it's so hard to believe that Helix and others can fix 3d on games in about a week, yet Nvidia and devs don't care at all about it, it's ridiculous.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#35
Posted 05/28/2013 02:55 PM   
I meant official Tridef support...like include in the 3D mode combo box....but yeah, some people tweaking some stuff may achieve OR work right now. Devs have more important problems to deal with a game, like fixing bugs....Original planning always can include all full list of tasks (maybe include 3D) but when you have the release date in front....some secondary task of the original planning are remove (due the time and budget)....happens in any project, that's the reason because sometimes we see some 3D implementation halfway in games and others horribles cases.
I meant official Tridef support...like include in the 3D mode combo box....but yeah, some people tweaking some stuff may achieve OR work right now.

Devs have more important problems to deal with a game, like fixing bugs....Original planning always can include all full list of tasks (maybe include 3D) but when you have the release date in front....some secondary task of the original planning are remove (due the time and budget)....happens in any project, that's the reason because sometimes we see some 3D implementation halfway in games and others horribles cases.

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My 3D Screenshot Gallery

Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com

#36
Posted 05/28/2013 03:19 PM   
@PerfectPixel Please go and buy an AMD card, and post on AMD forums. Please stop coming here and swearing like a man with Tourrette Syndrome, it's ridiculous and juvenile. Most of us who post in this forum are upset with Nvidia's lack of input to 3D Vision as well, but several people have pointed out that the main problem with making games 3D compatible lies with developers. Helix and Community (myself included) fix *games*, because it's the *games* that don't work. And they do this by the way using a public API Nvidia has provided. We are all frustrated that Nvidia don't employ a Helix-like person, but no-one else has done that either. Even though I am aware of the lack of Nvidia support, I just invested in 3D Vision 2 recently, and don't regret it at all - I have easily 3-4 years of games I could play. I have absolutely nothing to complain about. Also, some new games coming out *are* good in 3D out of the box, and I am sure there will be many more.
@PerfectPixel
Please go and buy an AMD card, and post on AMD forums. Please stop coming here and swearing like a man with Tourrette Syndrome, it's ridiculous and juvenile. Most of us who post in this forum are upset with Nvidia's lack of input to 3D Vision as well, but several people have pointed out that the main problem with making games 3D compatible lies with developers. Helix and Community (myself included) fix *games*, because it's the *games* that don't work. And they do this by the way using a public API Nvidia has provided. We are all frustrated that Nvidia don't employ a Helix-like person, but no-one else has done that either.
Even though I am aware of the lack of Nvidia support, I just invested in 3D Vision 2 recently, and don't regret it at all - I have easily 3-4 years of games I could play. I have absolutely nothing to complain about. Also, some new games coming out *are* good in 3D out of the box, and I am sure there will be many more.

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#37
Posted 05/28/2013 04:08 PM   
I just don't understand the thinking. Like sure, you can be angry about amount of support we been getting. But saying you are going from Nvidia which while has not the best support -> AMD which has no support what so ever is just backwards. The titles that are AMDHD3D we literally get as well, their is only 1-2 exclusions. Then saying you like helix/helixmod games then but because nvidia isnt supporting as well as they should. You are going to amd where you cant use helixmod games. 3D vision/Tridef are only things that matter. End of story. You are litterally knocking nvidia because they are taking advantage of Helixmod [Which they are in a way.] Then saying you are going to AMD.... which takes advantage of Tridef[They make it seem like its exclusive to amd cards. List support of tridef games in there games]. Where does it end? You spending money, being just as unhappy. It kind of makes me laugh [Sounds harsh, I know]. How people are saying they are switching from Nvidia->amd over 3D. Or switching from 3D->2D over lack of support. In all honesty, mostly due to helix we really haven't seen that many games without support. Then we got the nvidia/amd sponsored games that give us more titles. I mean DX11 and whatnot, who knows what in the future. But besides like AC3 / Bioshock infinite [Which works on tridef as far as BI]. We really haven't seen that many games without support. I mean honestly 8 out of 10 big name games on PC we been getting support of one way or another? Thats better then ever.
I just don't understand the thinking. Like sure, you can be angry about amount of support we been getting. But saying you are going from Nvidia which while has not the best support -> AMD which has no support what so ever is just backwards. The titles that are AMDHD3D we literally get as well, their is only 1-2 exclusions.
Then saying you like helix/helixmod games then but because nvidia isnt supporting as well as they should. You are going to amd where you cant use helixmod games.

3D vision/Tridef are only things that matter. End of story.
You are litterally knocking nvidia because they are taking advantage of Helixmod [Which they are in a way.] Then saying you are going to AMD.... which takes advantage of Tridef[They make it seem like its exclusive to amd cards. List support of tridef games in there games]. Where does it end? You spending money, being just as unhappy.


It kind of makes me laugh [Sounds harsh, I know]. How people are saying they are switching from Nvidia->amd over 3D. Or switching from 3D->2D over lack of support. In all honesty, mostly due to helix we really haven't seen that many games without support. Then we got the nvidia/amd sponsored games that give us more titles. I mean DX11 and whatnot, who knows what in the future. But besides like AC3 / Bioshock infinite [Which works on tridef as far as BI]. We really haven't seen that many games without support.
I mean honestly 8 out of 10 big name games on PC we been getting support of one way or another? Thats better then ever.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#38
Posted 05/28/2013 06:02 PM   
Well it looks like its possible they are just not listing 3d vision profiles on that page anymore. People are saying grid 2 is 3d vision ready on there compatibility page/in-game but I havent updated in 1/2 drivers and I dont have it listed in 3d vision ready section.
Well it looks like its possible they are just not listing 3d vision profiles on that page anymore. People are saying grid 2 is 3d vision ready on there compatibility page/in-game but I havent updated in 1/2 drivers and I dont have it listed in 3d vision ready section.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#39
Posted 05/28/2013 09:34 PM   
Mikeloader died from F-Bombs, so it can't be him. [quote="Amorphous@NVIDIA"]I'll just leave this here. [img]http://www.gamesetwatch.com/nvidiagraph1.jpg[/img] Console gaming is in decline. New consoles have launched and not significantly impacted the decline of the console gaming market. The PC provides a superior graphics experience, and will continue to. PC technology is constantly evolving and improving. Console technology is outdated the day it's launched and remains locked. Free-to-play and micro-transaction based gaming, which is dominating the video game market, is incompatible with the outdated traditional console sales model of selling the hardware at a loss and recouping with licensing. People game on consoles because they want an easy, flip-the-switch-to-play style gaming experience. NVIDIA GRID will begin servicing that market of users. If your set-top box, tablet or Smart TV can give you PC quality gaming graphics without the need to purchase any other hardware, discs or even install or update game software, why would you buy a console? Amorphous[/quote] https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/532146/off-topic/pc-gamers-and-nvidia-here-39-s-your-nightmare-/post/3746891/#3746891
Mikeloader died from F-Bombs, so it can't be him.

Amorphous@NVIDIA said:I'll just leave this here.
Image

Console gaming is in decline. New consoles have launched and not significantly impacted the decline of the console gaming market.

The PC provides a superior graphics experience, and will continue to. PC technology is constantly evolving and improving. Console technology is outdated the day it's launched and remains locked.

Free-to-play and micro-transaction based gaming, which is dominating the video game market, is incompatible with the outdated traditional console sales model of selling the hardware at a loss and recouping with licensing.

People game on consoles because they want an easy, flip-the-switch-to-play style gaming experience. NVIDIA GRID will begin servicing that market of users. If your set-top box, tablet or Smart TV can give you PC quality gaming graphics without the need to purchase any other hardware, discs or even install or update game software, why would you buy a console?


Amorphous


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/532146/off-topic/pc-gamers-and-nvidia-here-39-s-your-nightmare-/post/3746891/#3746891

#40
Posted 05/29/2013 09:18 AM   
I missed it when I read this a few months ago, but it looks like Nvidias next big thing is support for set top boxes, smart TVs and tablets. And the "CLOUD" "Nvidia Grid", you're new destitination for being nickeled and dimed to death with microtransactions. [quote="Amorphous@NVIDIA"]People game on consoles because they want an easy, flip-the-switch-to-play style gaming experience. NVIDIA GRID will begin servicing that market of users. If your set-top box, tablet or Smart TV can give you PC quality gaming graphics without the need to purchase any other hardware, discs or even install or update game software, why would you buy a console Amorphous[/quote] So 3D Vision might still get back burner treatment?
I missed it when I read this a few months ago, but it looks like Nvidias next big thing is support for set top boxes, smart TVs and tablets. And the "CLOUD"

"Nvidia Grid", you're new destitination for being nickeled and dimed to death with microtransactions.

Amorphous@NVIDIA said:People game on consoles because they want an easy, flip-the-switch-to-play style gaming experience. NVIDIA GRID will begin servicing that market of users. If your set-top box, tablet or Smart TV can give you PC quality gaming graphics without the need to purchase any other hardware, discs or even install or update game software, why would you buy a console Amorphous


So 3D Vision might still get back burner treatment?

#41
Posted 05/29/2013 09:24 AM   
If you stop, I'll continue. I've always thought that Nvidia was kinda clever with their 3D Vision... leading people to buy 3D Vision Ready Monitors with integrated emitter or just buying the kit (because let's be honest, the kit was a hook for people to buy Nvidia cards for at least the next 2 card upgrades), and certain games performing better with 3D Vision than AMD's 3D tech, etc. I dove in expecting to "have" to buy Nvidia cards to get that exceptional technology. At launch (3D Vision 1 kit), i was blown away...sort of still am with games that have been tweaked by you guys (Helix, Eqzitara, DHR, Mana, etc). That said, like most 3D Vision owners, I'm not feeling a whole lot of TLC from Nvidia. All I hear about is how great the Shield is (which I absolutely don't care about) and how Nvidia's B2B side is blooming (Citrix & VGPU). The *ONLY* reason i haven't bought a 780GTX is that I'm still trying to make up my mind on whether I still want to pay extra for an Nvidia product and continue with 3D tech (which is clearly broken on almost every new game that comes out, making them unplayable in 3D)... or going the AMD route and invest the balance into a XHD Resolution screen. TBH, I can't wait to see the final version of Oculus Rift. Venting session, over. My apologies.
If you stop, I'll continue. I've always thought that Nvidia was kinda clever with their 3D Vision... leading people to buy 3D Vision Ready Monitors with integrated emitter or just buying the kit (because let's be honest, the kit was a hook for people to buy Nvidia cards for at least the next 2 card upgrades), and certain games performing better with 3D Vision than AMD's 3D tech, etc. I dove in expecting to "have" to buy Nvidia cards to get that exceptional technology. At launch (3D Vision 1 kit), i was blown away...sort of still am with games that have been tweaked by you guys (Helix, Eqzitara, DHR, Mana, etc).

That said, like most 3D Vision owners, I'm not feeling a whole lot of TLC from Nvidia. All I hear about is how great the Shield is (which I absolutely don't care about) and how Nvidia's B2B side is blooming (Citrix & VGPU). The *ONLY* reason i haven't bought a 780GTX is that I'm still trying to make up my mind on whether I still want to pay extra for an Nvidia product and continue with 3D tech (which is clearly broken on almost every new game that comes out, making them unplayable in 3D)... or going the AMD route and invest the balance into a XHD Resolution screen.

TBH, I can't wait to see the final version of Oculus Rift.

Venting session, over. My apologies.

#42
Posted 05/29/2013 02:33 PM   
Tridef 3D has better 3D setup with the 3D game profiles and organized profile downloads. One could say that whatever nvidia doesn't do well in, you can rely on Tridef to fill that gap. Each have half the crown though. One is not superior without the other for if you take away one, you won't have great compaitibility with some games. Sleeping dogs for instance crashes when you use tridef. But Resident Evil 6 (only game that has lag so far) and Illusion Adult games look great while 3d vision burns your eyes with them.
Tridef 3D has better 3D setup with the 3D game profiles and organized profile downloads. One could say that whatever nvidia doesn't do well in, you can rely on Tridef to fill that gap. Each have half the crown though. One is not superior without the other for if you take away one, you won't have great compaitibility with some games. Sleeping dogs for instance crashes when you use tridef. But Resident Evil 6 (only game that has lag so far) and Illusion Adult games look great while 3d vision burns your eyes with them.

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#43
Posted 05/30/2013 02:35 AM   
[s]Go, buy an AMD know one here really cares. Again you're just ruining things for other people here, you don't like it then just leave. You're obviously not going to get to 'NVIDIA' in the way you want to through this part of the forums ... [/s] Well that seemed a bit offtopic ever since the thread has been cleaned up a little. Lol. :D
Go, buy an AMD know one here really cares. Again you're just ruining things for other people here, you don't like it then just leave. You're obviously not going to get to 'NVIDIA' in the way you want to through this part of the forums ...

Well that seemed a bit offtopic ever since the thread has been cleaned up a little. Lol. :D
#44
Posted 05/30/2013 01:20 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]I missed it when I read this a few months ago, but it looks like Nvidias next big thing is support for set top boxes, smart TVs and tablets. And the "CLOUD" "Nvidia Grid", you're new destination for being nickeled and dimed to death with microtransactions. [quote="Amorphous@NVIDIA"]People game on consoles because they want an easy, flip-the-switch-to-play style gaming experience. NVIDIA GRID will begin servicing that market of users. If your set-top box, tablet or Smart TV can give you PC quality gaming graphics without the need to purchase any other hardware, discs or even install or update game software, why would you buy a console Amorphous[/quote] So 3D Vision might still get back burner treatment?[/quote] Did you read the latest Nvidia news letter and follow some of the links? Nvidia it seems has been very busy and investing heavily in "Cloud Gaming 2.0" with Agawi. http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc/2013/presentations/S3581-Agawi-Introduces-Cloud-Gaming-2.pdf http://nvidia.fullviewmedia.com/gtc2013/0319-230C-S3581.html pay attention at 7:55 "they're happy enough" Peter Relan Executive Chairman of Agawi's take on core gamers.(Nvidia's new business partner)
D-Man11 said:I missed it when I read this a few months ago, but it looks like Nvidias next big thing is support for set top boxes, smart TVs and tablets. And the "CLOUD"

"Nvidia Grid", you're new destination for being nickeled and dimed to death with microtransactions.

Amorphous@NVIDIA said:People game on consoles because they want an easy, flip-the-switch-to-play style gaming experience. NVIDIA GRID will begin servicing that market of users. If your set-top box, tablet or Smart TV can give you PC quality gaming graphics without the need to purchase any other hardware, discs or even install or update game software, why would you buy a console Amorphous


So 3D Vision might still get back burner treatment?


Did you read the latest Nvidia news letter and follow some of the links?

Nvidia it seems has been very busy and investing heavily in "Cloud Gaming 2.0" with Agawi.

http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc/2013/presentations/S3581-Agawi-Introduces-Cloud-Gaming-2.pdf

http://nvidia.fullviewmedia.com/gtc2013/0319-230C-S3581.html

pay attention at 7:55 "they're happy enough" Peter Relan Executive Chairman of Agawi's take on core gamers.(Nvidia's new business partner)

#45
Posted 05/31/2013 04:34 AM   
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