100% depth not enough for you? No, me neither! I play at somewhere around 300% where 3D vision is truly stunning.
Fully adjustable to any separation you desire and works perfectly with the separation / convergence hotkeys and 3D Vision profiles you save.
What does it do?
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you ;-)
I have included all the tools and scripts needed in the zip file attached for convenience.
It looks complicated but it's very easy. Once setup, you will never have to worry about it again.
Hopefully nVidia wont try to block this hack, and towards that effect, I'm putting a disclaimer here.
[i]Use at own risk. nVidia nor I am responsible for any damage this may cause to you, your system, or your pets.[/i]
As we know, nVidia has capped the "separation" setting to limit "eye strain" in case people adjust it wrong and start complaining about headaches.
In my opinion, and in many others', the cap is too conservative.
There is a way to hack it. It has been around for a while, but it needed to be done every time you loaded up a game and enabled 3D Vision.
This quick tutorial will show how to make the change permanently.
I play at 300% max. Unfortunately, around 300% is the point where you start to see things in real 3D on a projector (depending on your screen size) as you would in the real world. Corridors will be deep into the screen. You will flinch as projectiles come towards you. You will be more immersed than you have ever been in a game before.
So let's begin.
The registry value which determines max depth (depth multiplier) is a DWord called "MonitorSize".
It is located at (Windows 7 64-bit):
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]
The LOWER the value, the higher the depth multiplier.
Creating a reg file to change this item is what most of us do, but it needs to be done every time as the 3D Vision driver resets this constantly to the default value configured for your display.
The best method that I have found to deal with the problem is to simply change the permissions of the Stereo3D registry key so nothing can be allowed to change the DWord value that you have set. The only problem with that is that you will have to allow editing of the registry key if you want to save a Stereo3D profile, or change/upgrade drivers.
The good news is that you can easily make a script to do this for you and assign hotkeys.
So, for example, you would load up a game, and it's already depth hacked. Now you want to adjust 3D settings and save the profile. Simply use a hotkey to change permissions of the registry key. Once the profile is saved (default Ctl + F7), lock the registry key again using a hotkey. No alt-tabbing, no multiple clicks, no hassle. From that point, the depth hack will always be active and working with your personal 3D profile.
The script is written for Microsoft's Regini.exe and the hotkeys are workable using a program called HotKeyPlus written by Brian @ BrianApps.net
[url="http://www.brianapps.net/hotkeyplus/"]Brian Apps[/url]
These have been included for convenience.
The scripts have been tested in Windows 7 64-bit, but can be adapted for any other version of windows if you know the registry paths to the Stereo3D key.
As for the hotkeys, I use the hotkeys on my G15 keyboard, but have included HotKeyPlus if your keyboard doesn't have hotkeys. If using this utility, please look at the website above to see how to easily configure the hotkey. A shortcut to it should be put in your startup folder so that it is automatically launched at every boot.
So lets get to work.
In the Zip file, you will see "allow.txt" and "block.txt". These are the scripts. The registry paths and the monitor size you want goes in here. I have set a value of "30". Change this to whatever you like, i.e. half the value that was set for your "MonitorSize".
There is a quirk - you will see repeat commands in the script file. For some reason, I found that unless repeated in the script, it didn't always work. So remember to change the value at both places in both the allow.txt and block.txt files.
When changing the registry paths in the .txt files, make sure to use the format already there. Regini.exe is very specific about what it will accept.
After the changes are made, simply run "block.bat" to lock the Stereo3D registry key or "allow.bat" to make it editable again. Create shortcuts to these batch files and in properties of the shortcut, select "run minimised". If you link directly to the batch files, foreground apps such as running games will minimise! Use HotKeyPlus to assign hotkeys to the SHORTCUTS and ensure that it starts up with windows by putting a shortcut to "HotKeyPlus" in the windows startup folder.
Usage under different scenarios:
Typical:
Just hotkey run block.bat shortcut.
This will permanently make the 100% depth slider far greater than it is by default.
You have installed a game and want to save settings:
1. Load up game.
2. Adjust convergence and separation settings to your liking.
3. press hotkey for allow.bat shortcut
4. press ctl + F7 to save the profile
5. press hotkey for block.bat shortcut
Done.
Now that game will be perminently depth hacked and that profile will automatically load every time Stereo3D is enabled in that game.
Install or upgrade drivers:
1. press hotkey for allow.bat shortcut
2. uninstall old drivers/upgrade to new ones
3. press hotkey for block.bat shortcut
Done.
Any questions please let me know. I realise some changes may be needed in different systems. I shall try my best to help :)
Edit 27.4.2015 Fixed Zip file Link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/no90s4flpvbow75/3D_Vision_Depth_Hack.zip?dl=0
Old link removed by nVidia as the included batch files are, of course, triggering virus warnings.
100% depth not enough for you? No, me neither! I play at somewhere around 300% where 3D vision is truly stunning.
Fully adjustable to any separation you desire and works perfectly with the separation / convergence hotkeys and 3D Vision profiles you save.
What does it do?
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you ;-)
I have included all the tools and scripts needed in the zip file attached for convenience.
It looks complicated but it's very easy. Once setup, you will never have to worry about it again.
Hopefully nVidia wont try to block this hack, and towards that effect, I'm putting a disclaimer here.
Use at own risk. nVidia nor I am responsible for any damage this may cause to you, your system, or your pets.
As we know, nVidia has capped the "separation" setting to limit "eye strain" in case people adjust it wrong and start complaining about headaches.
In my opinion, and in many others', the cap is too conservative.
There is a way to hack it. It has been around for a while, but it needed to be done every time you loaded up a game and enabled 3D Vision.
This quick tutorial will show how to make the change permanently.
I play at 300% max. Unfortunately, around 300% is the point where you start to see things in real 3D on a projector (depending on your screen size) as you would in the real world. Corridors will be deep into the screen. You will flinch as projectiles come towards you. You will be more immersed than you have ever been in a game before.
So let's begin.
The registry value which determines max depth (depth multiplier) is a DWord called "MonitorSize".
The LOWER the value, the higher the depth multiplier.
Creating a reg file to change this item is what most of us do, but it needs to be done every time as the 3D Vision driver resets this constantly to the default value configured for your display.
The best method that I have found to deal with the problem is to simply change the permissions of the Stereo3D registry key so nothing can be allowed to change the DWord value that you have set. The only problem with that is that you will have to allow editing of the registry key if you want to save a Stereo3D profile, or change/upgrade drivers.
The good news is that you can easily make a script to do this for you and assign hotkeys.
So, for example, you would load up a game, and it's already depth hacked. Now you want to adjust 3D settings and save the profile. Simply use a hotkey to change permissions of the registry key. Once the profile is saved (default Ctl + F7), lock the registry key again using a hotkey. No alt-tabbing, no multiple clicks, no hassle. From that point, the depth hack will always be active and working with your personal 3D profile.
The script is written for Microsoft's Regini.exe and the hotkeys are workable using a program called HotKeyPlus written by Brian @ BrianApps.net
The scripts have been tested in Windows 7 64-bit, but can be adapted for any other version of windows if you know the registry paths to the Stereo3D key.
As for the hotkeys, I use the hotkeys on my G15 keyboard, but have included HotKeyPlus if your keyboard doesn't have hotkeys. If using this utility, please look at the website above to see how to easily configure the hotkey. A shortcut to it should be put in your startup folder so that it is automatically launched at every boot.
So lets get to work.
In the Zip file, you will see "allow.txt" and "block.txt". These are the scripts. The registry paths and the monitor size you want goes in here. I have set a value of "30". Change this to whatever you like, i.e. half the value that was set for your "MonitorSize".
There is a quirk - you will see repeat commands in the script file. For some reason, I found that unless repeated in the script, it didn't always work. So remember to change the value at both places in both the allow.txt and block.txt files.
When changing the registry paths in the .txt files, make sure to use the format already there. Regini.exe is very specific about what it will accept.
After the changes are made, simply run "block.bat" to lock the Stereo3D registry key or "allow.bat" to make it editable again. Create shortcuts to these batch files and in properties of the shortcut, select "run minimised". If you link directly to the batch files, foreground apps such as running games will minimise! Use HotKeyPlus to assign hotkeys to the SHORTCUTS and ensure that it starts up with windows by putting a shortcut to "HotKeyPlus" in the windows startup folder.
Usage under different scenarios:
Typical:
Just hotkey run block.bat shortcut.
This will permanently make the 100% depth slider far greater than it is by default.
You have installed a game and want to save settings:
1. Load up game.
2. Adjust convergence and separation settings to your liking.
3. press hotkey for allow.bat shortcut
4. press ctl + F7 to save the profile
5. press hotkey for block.bat shortcut
Done.
Now that game will be perminently depth hacked and that profile will automatically load every time Stereo3D is enabled in that game.
Install or upgrade drivers:
1. press hotkey for allow.bat shortcut
2. uninstall old drivers/upgrade to new ones
3. press hotkey for block.bat shortcut
Done.
Any questions please let me know. I realise some changes may be needed in different systems. I shall try my best to help :)
300% /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' /> yikes
I roll at around 150%
I been using a different .bat where I had to click it before everytime I open a game or alt tab. Ill try this out. Definetly better off for most users though I may use it only for some games because I will go blind when I mess around with shaders. /thanks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thanks:' />
Anyone who uses a projector needs something like this. The sad thing is people with projectors dont realize they are at anywhere from 50%-80% depth at 100%. Nvidia hard caps it real high in inches(less is more). Like my projector is recommended at 80" nvidia hard caps it at 100" I believe.
I been using a different .bat where I had to click it before everytime I open a game or alt tab. Ill try this out. Definetly better off for most users though I may use it only for some games because I will go blind when I mess around with shaders.
Anyone who uses a projector needs something like this. The sad thing is people with projectors dont realize they are at anywhere from 50%-80% depth at 100%. Nvidia hard caps it real high in inches(less is more). Like my projector is recommended at 80" nvidia hard caps it at 100" I believe.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Any recommendations for how to find the right level of depth? For me, I physically measure the distance between the left and right image of an object on the horizon and adjust depth until they're 6.0 cm apart, which is equal to the distance between my eyes. Logically I think this should give the most realistic depth, as any more than that and you're eyes will be diverging which never happens in real life. Which doesn't mean it can't be done of course, but my goal is realism over hyper stereo effects.
Incidently, the depth setting to achieve this with my projector (90" screen) is about 80%, no need for a hack with mine for whatever reason.
Any recommendations for how to find the right level of depth? For me, I physically measure the distance between the left and right image of an object on the horizon and adjust depth until they're 6.0 cm apart, which is equal to the distance between my eyes. Logically I think this should give the most realistic depth, as any more than that and you're eyes will be diverging which never happens in real life. Which doesn't mean it can't be done of course, but my goal is realism over hyper stereo effects.
Incidently, the depth setting to achieve this with my projector (90" screen) is about 80%, no need for a hack with mine for whatever reason.
That is a good question. My pupillary distance too is 62mm.
Unfortunately, this cannot be used to gauge the separation you should use convincingly as the distance from the screen is a huge factor. If your eyes were always right next to the projector screen, this gauge would be ideal.
This is because the further away the screen is, the smaller the perceived separation.
One of the best methods I use is to sit in my normal viewing position and hold my index fingers on each hand vertical in front of each eye. This will project onto a screen how far apart a distant object in the game should be. This would be the real value at which your eyes would diverge.
So how does that correlate to the real value I use in game? The in game separation I set about to 1/2 to 2/3 that distance for comfort. That is still about 300% max separation.
That is a good question. My pupillary distance too is 62mm.
Unfortunately, this cannot be used to gauge the separation you should use convincingly as the distance from the screen is a huge factor. If your eyes were always right next to the projector screen, this gauge would be ideal.
This is because the further away the screen is, the smaller the perceived separation.
One of the best methods I use is to sit in my normal viewing position and hold my index fingers on each hand vertical in front of each eye. This will project onto a screen how far apart a distant object in the game should be. This would be the real value at which your eyes would diverge.
So how does that correlate to the real value I use in game? The in game separation I set about to 1/2 to 2/3 that distance for comfort. That is still about 300% max separation.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I pretty outside this equation as I'm using a 23,5" Benq.
I measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strenght.
Using a projector I assume there is clearly the chance of 100% being far less than occular distance.
I also assume that you could even diverge your eyes quite a lot at that distance without a huge problem.
Just plugging a 2,4m viewing distance, 100" screen and 63mm separation vs 65mm occular distance gives:
Closest 3D distance 1,2m
Furthest 3D distance 78m
If you are going diverging your eyes things would be allowed to come much closer.
The same figures for my 23,6" is
Closest 3D distance 0,2m
Furthest 3D distance 15m
I consider it very immersive while somewhat lacking in depth getting even close to 15m depth behind the screen just 0,5m away is pretty immersive though.
I would not want to play with an on screen separation of 18,9cm (300%) for obvious reasons. 100% is clearly high enough.
I pretty outside this equation as I'm using a 23,5" Benq.
I measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strenght.
Using a projector I assume there is clearly the chance of 100% being far less than occular distance.
I also assume that you could even diverge your eyes quite a lot at that distance without a huge problem.
Just plugging a 2,4m viewing distance, 100" screen and 63mm separation vs 65mm occular distance gives:
Closest 3D distance 1,2m
Furthest 3D distance 78m
If you are going diverging your eyes things would be allowed to come much closer.
The same figures for my 23,6" is
Closest 3D distance 0,2m
Furthest 3D distance 15m
I consider it very immersive while somewhat lacking in depth getting even close to 15m depth behind the screen just 0,5m away is pretty immersive though.
I would not want to play with an on screen separation of 18,9cm (300%) for obvious reasons. 100% is clearly high enough.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
Unless I am misunderstanding, there is a clear misconceptions between separation on screen and the ocular distance, perceived separation on screen, and the word "Divergence".
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye-divergence-example.gif"]This is Divernegce.[/url]
3D Vision settings should NEVER EVER make your eyes go like this.
You "measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strengh".
This tells us nothing because we don't know how far you are from the screen.
For example, if you are 2m away from the screen with a separation of 63mm, you are actually only perceiving a separation of ~20mm (example, not exact figure). This separation would tend towards 0 as the screen distance increased. When things move further from the eyes, they get smaller. The same thing happens with separation set when the screen moves further from the seating position.
It is this perceived distance that must correlate to the ocular distance (physical distance between the pupils), not the actual separation on the screen, which is a meaningless figure.
Please let's not be confused by the [b]actual screen separation[/b] and the [b]perceived separation from a distance from a screen[/b].
The [b]perceived[/b] separation should never be more than the ocular distance or the eyes will start to diverge (link above). The actual screen separation can be anything, even many multiples of the ocular distance, depending on the distance you are from the screen.
Perfect 3D would be when an infinitely distant object in the game was exactly at 63mm (pupillary or ocular distance) [b]PERCEIVED [/b]separation from where you are sitting. This could be 200mm physical screen separation distance if you are sitting at say 3 metres away (example, not exact figure).
I think I now understand why nVidia capped their settings so low. They made a huge mistake. Like many, they have confused the perceived separation from a certain distance with physical screen separation. Wow. What a colossal Oversight /omg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omg:' />
Can someone with a 3D monitor please measure what the 100% separation distance is on their screens? Is it indeed ~ 63mm? If so, nVidia have to be informed /pinch.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pinch:' />
Please tell me if I misunderstand what you said :)
Unless I am misunderstanding, there is a clear misconceptions between separation on screen and the ocular distance, perceived separation on screen, and the word "Divergence".
3D Vision settings should NEVER EVER make your eyes go like this.
You "measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strengh".
This tells us nothing because we don't know how far you are from the screen.
For example, if you are 2m away from the screen with a separation of 63mm, you are actually only perceiving a separation of ~20mm (example, not exact figure). This separation would tend towards 0 as the screen distance increased. When things move further from the eyes, they get smaller. The same thing happens with separation set when the screen moves further from the seating position.
It is this perceived distance that must correlate to the ocular distance (physical distance between the pupils), not the actual separation on the screen, which is a meaningless figure.
Please let's not be confused by the actual screen separation and the perceived separation from a distance from a screen.
The perceived separation should never be more than the ocular distance or the eyes will start to diverge (link above). The actual screen separation can be anything, even many multiples of the ocular distance, depending on the distance you are from the screen.
Perfect 3D would be when an infinitely distant object in the game was exactly at 63mm (pupillary or ocular distance) PERCEIVED separation from where you are sitting. This could be 200mm physical screen separation distance if you are sitting at say 3 metres away (example, not exact figure).
I think I now understand why nVidia capped their settings so low. They made a huge mistake. Like many, they have confused the perceived separation from a certain distance with physical screen separation. Wow. What a colossal Oversight /omg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omg:' />
Can someone with a 3D monitor please measure what the 100% separation distance is on their screens? Is it indeed ~ 63mm? If so, nVidia have to be informed /pinch.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pinch:' />
Please tell me if I misunderstand what you said :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Thanks for the response RAGEdemon. However, I think you're mistaken in regards to this "perceived separation" when determining the infinity point. It should be equal to the distance between your eyes no matter your seating distance. When looking into infinity both eyes are looking straight forward. If you were to look as if into infinity and draw straight lines from your eyes to the screen, the left and right eyes would hit the screen at 6.5cm no matter the distance. It's perfectly straight, there's no angles involved so the left/right focal points don't widen or narrow with distance.
Where the screen distance does matter is for everything that's not far off in infinity. As you move closer to the screen, things seem to flatten. As you move away, things expand. Pop out effects will appear to move toward the screen as you move closer for example. So, seating distance is important when adjust convergence, just not depth.
Thanks for the response RAGEdemon. However, I think you're mistaken in regards to this "perceived separation" when determining the infinity point. It should be equal to the distance between your eyes no matter your seating distance. When looking into infinity both eyes are looking straight forward. If you were to look as if into infinity and draw straight lines from your eyes to the screen, the left and right eyes would hit the screen at 6.5cm no matter the distance. It's perfectly straight, there's no angles involved so the left/right focal points don't widen or narrow with distance.
Where the screen distance does matter is for everything that's not far off in infinity. As you move closer to the screen, things seem to flatten. As you move away, things expand. Pop out effects will appear to move toward the screen as you move closer for example. So, seating distance is important when adjust convergence, just not depth.
Here's [url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6197:s-3d-settings-guide&catid=40&showall=&limitstart=1"]page 2 of MTBS3D's 3D Settings guide[/url]. I think it clearly shows and states that objects on screen shouldn't be separated more than the distance between your eyes. There's no talk of seating distance or perceived distances. Look at the diagram and imagine moving the screen forward or backward, the separation required for distant objects cannot and must not move further apart.
At least, not if realistic accuracy is your goal. What's most important is using what settings you personally like, and I've seen the case made for allowing for a little divergence. It's just important to realize that's what you're going to get if you exceed your interocular distance.
Here's page 2 of MTBS3D's 3D Settings guide. I think it clearly shows and states that objects on screen shouldn't be separated more than the distance between your eyes. There's no talk of seating distance or perceived distances. Look at the diagram and imagine moving the screen forward or backward, the separation required for distant objects cannot and must not move further apart.
At least, not if realistic accuracy is your goal. What's most important is using what settings you personally like, and I've seen the case made for allowing for a little divergence. It's just important to realize that's what you're going to get if you exceed your interocular distance.
I am at work and will need to go home to experiment to get to the bottom of this.
You may be right. 15 years of 3D Gaming might have started to rot my brain. For some reason, I was absolutely sure the distance from the screen effects the depth of a perceived object, and that this has to be taken into account.
In the mean time, please would you do a little experiment for me. Can you set 100% depth on your monitor and tell me the physical separation of a distant / infinitely distant object?
Please can you put on your glasses, turn on 3D, and move towards and away from the monitor by a distance of a few metres. I am quite sure that the depth of the scene will change depending on how far you are from the screen.
I wrote adjustment guides way back on a website called StereoVision.net, which Neil from MTBS too was an avid contributor to :)
It looks like I'm going to have to go home and refresh my memory.
If you'll allow me the courtesy, I'll get back to you with some conclusions in a couple of days ;-)
I am at work and will need to go home to experiment to get to the bottom of this.
You may be right. 15 years of 3D Gaming might have started to rot my brain. For some reason, I was absolutely sure the distance from the screen effects the depth of a perceived object, and that this has to be taken into account.
In the mean time, please would you do a little experiment for me. Can you set 100% depth on your monitor and tell me the physical separation of a distant / infinitely distant object?
Please can you put on your glasses, turn on 3D, and move towards and away from the monitor by a distance of a few metres. I am quite sure that the depth of the scene will change depending on how far you are from the screen.
I wrote adjustment guides way back on a website called StereoVision.net, which Neil from MTBS too was an avid contributor to :)
It looks like I'm going to have to go home and refresh my memory.
If you'll allow me the courtesy, I'll get back to you with some conclusions in a couple of days ;-)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Okay, time for some science! My equipment: Acer H5360BD through VSX-820, playing Assassin's Creed Brotherhood. I sit 2.3 meters from a 90" screen.
I measure 6cm separation with a distant object with about 70% depth. Setting it to 100% depth, I measure 10cm with the same object. I definitely feel my eyes diverging at this setting, but I'm still able to focus. The result is miniaturization, a sort of hyper 3D effect where I can see stereoscopic depth farther than the human eye should be able to see in any particular scene, but the result is everything seems smaller than it should appear. What looks like realistically sized buildings at 70% depth appears to be models at 100% depth. Realism vs super human depth perception, take your pick!
Moving 2 meters forward or backward, I see the distance between buildings seem to flatten as I move forward and expand as I move back, but objects in the distance seems to stay the same in terms of stereoscopy. Of course, as I move forward distant objects become bigger (fill up more of my field of vision) and more pixelated, but this should have nothing to do with 3D.
Okay, time for some science! My equipment: Acer H5360BD through VSX-820, playing Assassin's Creed Brotherhood. I sit 2.3 meters from a 90" screen.
I measure 6cm separation with a distant object with about 70% depth. Setting it to 100% depth, I measure 10cm with the same object. I definitely feel my eyes diverging at this setting, but I'm still able to focus. The result is miniaturization, a sort of hyper 3D effect where I can see stereoscopic depth farther than the human eye should be able to see in any particular scene, but the result is everything seems smaller than it should appear. What looks like realistically sized buildings at 70% depth appears to be models at 100% depth. Realism vs super human depth perception, take your pick!
Moving 2 meters forward or backward, I see the distance between buildings seem to flatten as I move forward and expand as I move back, but objects in the distance seems to stay the same in terms of stereoscopy. Of course, as I move forward distant objects become bigger (fill up more of my field of vision) and more pixelated, but this should have nothing to do with 3D.
Thanks for that. What happens when you change the depth to ~60% so that you are comfortable? Now, in theory, if you move in and out, the depth of the scene should change. The further back you are, the deeper into the screen the rear of the scene should be.
A box, for example, which seems to have 1m depth should have 2m depth if you move further out.
I am very interested in seeing this hyper3D you talk about. Time for some science experiments indeed!
Thanks for that. What happens when you change the depth to ~60% so that you are comfortable? Now, in theory, if you move in and out, the depth of the scene should change. The further back you are, the deeper into the screen the rear of the scene should be.
A box, for example, which seems to have 1m depth should have 2m depth if you move further out.
I am very interested in seeing this hyper3D you talk about. Time for some science experiments indeed!
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Fully adjustable to any separation you desire and works perfectly with the separation / convergence hotkeys and 3D Vision profiles you save.
What does it do?
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you ;-)
I have included all the tools and scripts needed in the zip file attached for convenience.
It looks complicated but it's very easy. Once setup, you will never have to worry about it again.
Hopefully nVidia wont try to block this hack, and towards that effect, I'm putting a disclaimer here.
Use at own risk. nVidia nor I am responsible for any damage this may cause to you, your system, or your pets.
As we know, nVidia has capped the "separation" setting to limit "eye strain" in case people adjust it wrong and start complaining about headaches.
In my opinion, and in many others', the cap is too conservative.
There is a way to hack it. It has been around for a while, but it needed to be done every time you loaded up a game and enabled 3D Vision.
This quick tutorial will show how to make the change permanently.
I play at 300% max. Unfortunately, around 300% is the point where you start to see things in real 3D on a projector (depending on your screen size) as you would in the real world. Corridors will be deep into the screen. You will flinch as projectiles come towards you. You will be more immersed than you have ever been in a game before.
So let's begin.
The registry value which determines max depth (depth multiplier) is a DWord called "MonitorSize".
It is located at (Windows 7 64-bit):
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]
The LOWER the value, the higher the depth multiplier.
Creating a reg file to change this item is what most of us do, but it needs to be done every time as the 3D Vision driver resets this constantly to the default value configured for your display.
The best method that I have found to deal with the problem is to simply change the permissions of the Stereo3D registry key so nothing can be allowed to change the DWord value that you have set. The only problem with that is that you will have to allow editing of the registry key if you want to save a Stereo3D profile, or change/upgrade drivers.
The good news is that you can easily make a script to do this for you and assign hotkeys.
So, for example, you would load up a game, and it's already depth hacked. Now you want to adjust 3D settings and save the profile. Simply use a hotkey to change permissions of the registry key. Once the profile is saved (default Ctl + F7), lock the registry key again using a hotkey. No alt-tabbing, no multiple clicks, no hassle. From that point, the depth hack will always be active and working with your personal 3D profile.
The script is written for Microsoft's Regini.exe and the hotkeys are workable using a program called HotKeyPlus written by Brian @ BrianApps.net
Brian Apps
These have been included for convenience.
The scripts have been tested in Windows 7 64-bit, but can be adapted for any other version of windows if you know the registry paths to the Stereo3D key.
As for the hotkeys, I use the hotkeys on my G15 keyboard, but have included HotKeyPlus if your keyboard doesn't have hotkeys. If using this utility, please look at the website above to see how to easily configure the hotkey. A shortcut to it should be put in your startup folder so that it is automatically launched at every boot.
So lets get to work.
In the Zip file, you will see "allow.txt" and "block.txt". These are the scripts. The registry paths and the monitor size you want goes in here. I have set a value of "30". Change this to whatever you like, i.e. half the value that was set for your "MonitorSize".
There is a quirk - you will see repeat commands in the script file. For some reason, I found that unless repeated in the script, it didn't always work. So remember to change the value at both places in both the allow.txt and block.txt files.
When changing the registry paths in the .txt files, make sure to use the format already there. Regini.exe is very specific about what it will accept.
After the changes are made, simply run "block.bat" to lock the Stereo3D registry key or "allow.bat" to make it editable again. Create shortcuts to these batch files and in properties of the shortcut, select "run minimised". If you link directly to the batch files, foreground apps such as running games will minimise! Use HotKeyPlus to assign hotkeys to the SHORTCUTS and ensure that it starts up with windows by putting a shortcut to "HotKeyPlus" in the windows startup folder.
Usage under different scenarios:
Typical:
Just hotkey run block.bat shortcut.
This will permanently make the 100% depth slider far greater than it is by default.
You have installed a game and want to save settings:
1. Load up game.
2. Adjust convergence and separation settings to your liking.
3. press hotkey for allow.bat shortcut
4. press ctl + F7 to save the profile
5. press hotkey for block.bat shortcut
Done.
Now that game will be perminently depth hacked and that profile will automatically load every time Stereo3D is enabled in that game.
Install or upgrade drivers:
1. press hotkey for allow.bat shortcut
2. uninstall old drivers/upgrade to new ones
3. press hotkey for block.bat shortcut
Done.
Any questions please let me know. I realise some changes may be needed in different systems. I shall try my best to help :)
Edit 27.4.2015 Fixed Zip file Link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/no90s4flpvbow75/3D_Vision_Depth_Hack.zip?dl=0
Old link removed by nVidia as the included batch files are, of course, triggering virus warnings.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I roll at around 150%
I been using a different .bat where I had to click it before everytime I open a game or alt tab. Ill try this out. Definetly better off for most users though I may use it only for some games because I will go blind when I mess around with shaders.
Anyone who uses a projector needs something like this. The sad thing is people with projectors dont realize they are at anywhere from 50%-80% depth at 100%. Nvidia hard caps it real high in inches(less is more). Like my projector is recommended at 80" nvidia hard caps it at 100" I believe.
I roll at around 150%
I been using a different .bat where I had to click it before everytime I open a game or alt tab. Ill try this out. Definetly better off for most users though I may use it only for some games because I will go blind when I mess around with shaders.
Anyone who uses a projector needs something like this. The sad thing is people with projectors dont realize they are at anywhere from 50%-80% depth at 100%. Nvidia hard caps it real high in inches(less is more). Like my projector is recommended at 80" nvidia hard caps it at 100" I believe.
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Doesn't have to be 300%. You can make it anything you like so you can use it with any game all the time :)
Doesn't have to be 300%. You can make it anything you like so you can use it with any game all the time :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Only needed if 100% isn't enough for you ;-)
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you
Only needed if 100% isn't enough for you ;-)
All it does is multiply the separation so, for example, the slider at 25% separation will give you the effect of the slider being at 50%, and when it's at 100%, you will get the effect of it being at 200%. The actual multiplier (Monitor Size Value) you set is up to you
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Incidently, the depth setting to achieve this with my projector (90" screen) is about 80%, no need for a hack with mine for whatever reason.
Incidently, the depth setting to achieve this with my projector (90" screen) is about 80%, no need for a hack with mine for whatever reason.
That is a good question. My pupillary distance too is 62mm.
Unfortunately, this cannot be used to gauge the separation you should use convincingly as the distance from the screen is a huge factor. If your eyes were always right next to the projector screen, this gauge would be ideal.
This is because the further away the screen is, the smaller the perceived separation.
One of the best methods I use is to sit in my normal viewing position and hold my index fingers on each hand vertical in front of each eye. This will project onto a screen how far apart a distant object in the game should be. This would be the real value at which your eyes would diverge.
So how does that correlate to the real value I use in game? The in game separation I set about to 1/2 to 2/3 that distance for comfort. That is still about 300% max separation.
That is a good question. My pupillary distance too is 62mm.
Unfortunately, this cannot be used to gauge the separation you should use convincingly as the distance from the screen is a huge factor. If your eyes were always right next to the projector screen, this gauge would be ideal.
This is because the further away the screen is, the smaller the perceived separation.
One of the best methods I use is to sit in my normal viewing position and hold my index fingers on each hand vertical in front of each eye. This will project onto a screen how far apart a distant object in the game should be. This would be the real value at which your eyes would diverge.
So how does that correlate to the real value I use in game? The in game separation I set about to 1/2 to 2/3 that distance for comfort. That is still about 300% max separation.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I pretty outside this equation as I'm using a 23,5" Benq.
I measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strenght.
Using a projector I assume there is clearly the chance of 100% being far less than occular distance.
I also assume that you could even diverge your eyes quite a lot at that distance without a huge problem.
Just plugging a 2,4m viewing distance, 100" screen and 63mm separation vs 65mm occular distance gives:
Closest 3D distance 1,2m
Furthest 3D distance 78m
If you are going diverging your eyes things would be allowed to come much closer.
The same figures for my 23,6" is
Closest 3D distance 0,2m
Furthest 3D distance 15m
I consider it very immersive while somewhat lacking in depth getting even close to 15m depth behind the screen just 0,5m away is pretty immersive though.
I would not want to play with an on screen separation of 18,9cm (300%) for obvious reasons. 100% is clearly high enough.
I pretty outside this equation as I'm using a 23,5" Benq.
I measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strenght.
Using a projector I assume there is clearly the chance of 100% being far less than occular distance.
I also assume that you could even diverge your eyes quite a lot at that distance without a huge problem.
Just plugging a 2,4m viewing distance, 100" screen and 63mm separation vs 65mm occular distance gives:
Closest 3D distance 1,2m
Furthest 3D distance 78m
If you are going diverging your eyes things would be allowed to come much closer.
The same figures for my 23,6" is
Closest 3D distance 0,2m
Furthest 3D distance 15m
I consider it very immersive while somewhat lacking in depth getting even close to 15m depth behind the screen just 0,5m away is pretty immersive though.
I would not want to play with an on screen separation of 18,9cm (300%) for obvious reasons. 100% is clearly high enough.
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Unless I am misunderstanding, there is a clear misconceptions between separation on screen and the ocular distance, perceived separation on screen, and the word "Divergence".
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye-divergence-example.gif"]This is Divernegce.[/url]
3D Vision settings should NEVER EVER make your eyes go like this.
You "measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strengh".
This tells us nothing because we don't know how far you are from the screen.
For example, if you are 2m away from the screen with a separation of 63mm, you are actually only perceiving a separation of ~20mm (example, not exact figure). This separation would tend towards 0 as the screen distance increased. When things move further from the eyes, they get smaller. The same thing happens with separation set when the screen moves further from the seating position.
It is this perceived distance that must correlate to the ocular distance (physical distance between the pupils), not the actual separation on the screen, which is a meaningless figure.
Please let's not be confused by the [b]actual screen separation[/b] and the [b]perceived separation from a distance from a screen[/b].
The [b]perceived[/b] separation should never be more than the ocular distance or the eyes will start to diverge (link above). The actual screen separation can be anything, even many multiples of the ocular distance, depending on the distance you are from the screen.
Perfect 3D would be when an infinitely distant object in the game was exactly at 63mm (pupillary or ocular distance) [b]PERCEIVED [/b]separation from where you are sitting. This could be 200mm physical screen separation distance if you are sitting at say 3 metres away (example, not exact figure).
I think I now understand why nVidia capped their settings so low. They made a huge mistake. Like many, they have confused the perceived separation from a certain distance with physical screen separation. Wow. What a colossal Oversight
Can someone with a 3D monitor please measure what the 100% separation distance is on their screens? Is it indeed ~ 63mm? If so, nVidia have to be informed
Please tell me if I misunderstand what you said :)
Unless I am misunderstanding, there is a clear misconceptions between separation on screen and the ocular distance, perceived separation on screen, and the word "Divergence".
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you.
This is Divernegce.
3D Vision settings should NEVER EVER make your eyes go like this.
You "measured the on screen separation to be 63mm at 100% strengh".
This tells us nothing because we don't know how far you are from the screen.
For example, if you are 2m away from the screen with a separation of 63mm, you are actually only perceiving a separation of ~20mm (example, not exact figure). This separation would tend towards 0 as the screen distance increased. When things move further from the eyes, they get smaller. The same thing happens with separation set when the screen moves further from the seating position.
It is this perceived distance that must correlate to the ocular distance (physical distance between the pupils), not the actual separation on the screen, which is a meaningless figure.
Please let's not be confused by the actual screen separation and the perceived separation from a distance from a screen.
The perceived separation should never be more than the ocular distance or the eyes will start to diverge (link above). The actual screen separation can be anything, even many multiples of the ocular distance, depending on the distance you are from the screen.
Perfect 3D would be when an infinitely distant object in the game was exactly at 63mm (pupillary or ocular distance) PERCEIVED separation from where you are sitting. This could be 200mm physical screen separation distance if you are sitting at say 3 metres away (example, not exact figure).
I think I now understand why nVidia capped their settings so low. They made a huge mistake. Like many, they have confused the perceived separation from a certain distance with physical screen separation. Wow. What a colossal Oversight
Can someone with a 3D monitor please measure what the 100% separation distance is on their screens? Is it indeed ~ 63mm? If so, nVidia have to be informed
Please tell me if I misunderstand what you said :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Where the screen distance does matter is for everything that's not far off in infinity. As you move closer to the screen, things seem to flatten. As you move away, things expand. Pop out effects will appear to move toward the screen as you move closer for example. So, seating distance is important when adjust convergence, just not depth.
Where the screen distance does matter is for everything that's not far off in infinity. As you move closer to the screen, things seem to flatten. As you move away, things expand. Pop out effects will appear to move toward the screen as you move closer for example. So, seating distance is important when adjust convergence, just not depth.
Thanx for the tools!
Thanx for the tools!
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At least, not if realistic accuracy is your goal. What's most important is using what settings you personally like, and I've seen the case made for allowing for a little divergence. It's just important to realize that's what you're going to get if you exceed your interocular distance.
At least, not if realistic accuracy is your goal. What's most important is using what settings you personally like, and I've seen the case made for allowing for a little divergence. It's just important to realize that's what you're going to get if you exceed your interocular distance.
I am at work and will need to go home to experiment to get to the bottom of this.
You may be right. 15 years of 3D Gaming might have started to rot my brain. For some reason, I was absolutely sure the distance from the screen effects the depth of a perceived object, and that this has to be taken into account.
In the mean time, please would you do a little experiment for me. Can you set 100% depth on your monitor and tell me the physical separation of a distant / infinitely distant object?
Please can you put on your glasses, turn on 3D, and move towards and away from the monitor by a distance of a few metres. I am quite sure that the depth of the scene will change depending on how far you are from the screen.
I wrote adjustment guides way back on a website called StereoVision.net, which Neil from MTBS too was an avid contributor to :)
It looks like I'm going to have to go home and refresh my memory.
If you'll allow me the courtesy, I'll get back to you with some conclusions in a couple of days ;-)
I am at work and will need to go home to experiment to get to the bottom of this.
You may be right. 15 years of 3D Gaming might have started to rot my brain. For some reason, I was absolutely sure the distance from the screen effects the depth of a perceived object, and that this has to be taken into account.
In the mean time, please would you do a little experiment for me. Can you set 100% depth on your monitor and tell me the physical separation of a distant / infinitely distant object?
Please can you put on your glasses, turn on 3D, and move towards and away from the monitor by a distance of a few metres. I am quite sure that the depth of the scene will change depending on how far you are from the screen.
I wrote adjustment guides way back on a website called StereoVision.net, which Neil from MTBS too was an avid contributor to :)
It looks like I'm going to have to go home and refresh my memory.
If you'll allow me the courtesy, I'll get back to you with some conclusions in a couple of days ;-)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I measure 6cm separation with a distant object with about 70% depth. Setting it to 100% depth, I measure 10cm with the same object. I definitely feel my eyes diverging at this setting, but I'm still able to focus. The result is miniaturization, a sort of hyper 3D effect where I can see stereoscopic depth farther than the human eye should be able to see in any particular scene, but the result is everything seems smaller than it should appear. What looks like realistically sized buildings at 70% depth appears to be models at 100% depth. Realism vs super human depth perception, take your pick!
Moving 2 meters forward or backward, I see the distance between buildings seem to flatten as I move forward and expand as I move back, but objects in the distance seems to stay the same in terms of stereoscopy. Of course, as I move forward distant objects become bigger (fill up more of my field of vision) and more pixelated, but this should have nothing to do with 3D.
I measure 6cm separation with a distant object with about 70% depth. Setting it to 100% depth, I measure 10cm with the same object. I definitely feel my eyes diverging at this setting, but I'm still able to focus. The result is miniaturization, a sort of hyper 3D effect where I can see stereoscopic depth farther than the human eye should be able to see in any particular scene, but the result is everything seems smaller than it should appear. What looks like realistically sized buildings at 70% depth appears to be models at 100% depth. Realism vs super human depth perception, take your pick!
Moving 2 meters forward or backward, I see the distance between buildings seem to flatten as I move forward and expand as I move back, but objects in the distance seems to stay the same in terms of stereoscopy. Of course, as I move forward distant objects become bigger (fill up more of my field of vision) and more pixelated, but this should have nothing to do with 3D.
A box, for example, which seems to have 1m depth should have 2m depth if you move further out.
I am very interested in seeing this hyper3D you talk about. Time for some science experiments indeed!
A box, for example, which seems to have 1m depth should have 2m depth if you move further out.
I am very interested in seeing this hyper3D you talk about. Time for some science experiments indeed!
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.