Ultimate 3D projector setup with issues
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Hi, i just registered to post 1 question :)

I did a lot of research and read plenty of forums with no direct answer to my question...

OK, as far as my research goes there are 2 types of good setups for 3D gaming and movies and I'm intending to use projectors to create an awesome experience

one method is using active shutter glasses with alternating images on a 120hz projector and the other method is using 2 projectors with polarized filters on a special silver screen with polarized glasses

here is the comparisons and then i face a crazy question

1st method
easy setup
cheap (only needs 1 projector)
expensive shutter glasses (need at least 10-15)
nvidia stereo driver is free and support directx 9+10+11
flickering or ghosting images :(

2nd method
difficult to align 2 projectors on 1 screen
expensive (2 projectors)
cheap shutter glasses (need at least 10-15)
nvidia stereo driver does not support a 2 projector setup
only expensive 3rd party drivers like iz3d or tridef ddd allow 2 projector setups but with only directx 9 support
easy on eyes with no flickering or ghosting :)

my question is
is there some way to run the HDMI signals from an nvidia graphics card into some type of demux/multiplexer unit that will split the 1st image to the 1st projector and the other image to the 2nd projector while reading the IR data from the trasmitter
I want to use the awesome nvidia 3d stereo driver with a polarized 2 projector setup

reason:
2 projectors will give me a brighter image with no flickering/ghosting so i can game the whole day without any side effects and ill have directx 9+10+11 support
I also get a super headache when using shutter glasses

Money is not a problem as I own an awesome IT Support company

I apologize if this question was answered or reviewed before, i was maybe too lazy to find it

Thank you :)
Hi, i just registered to post 1 question :)



I did a lot of research and read plenty of forums with no direct answer to my question...



OK, as far as my research goes there are 2 types of good setups for 3D gaming and movies and I'm intending to use projectors to create an awesome experience



one method is using active shutter glasses with alternating images on a 120hz projector and the other method is using 2 projectors with polarized filters on a special silver screen with polarized glasses



here is the comparisons and then i face a crazy question



1st method

easy setup

cheap (only needs 1 projector)

expensive shutter glasses (need at least 10-15)

nvidia stereo driver is free and support directx 9+10+11

flickering or ghosting images :(



2nd method

difficult to align 2 projectors on 1 screen

expensive (2 projectors)

cheap shutter glasses (need at least 10-15)

nvidia stereo driver does not support a 2 projector setup

only expensive 3rd party drivers like iz3d or tridef ddd allow 2 projector setups but with only directx 9 support

easy on eyes with no flickering or ghosting :)



my question is

is there some way to run the HDMI signals from an nvidia graphics card into some type of demux/multiplexer unit that will split the 1st image to the 1st projector and the other image to the 2nd projector while reading the IR data from the trasmitter

I want to use the awesome nvidia 3d stereo driver with a polarized 2 projector setup



reason:

2 projectors will give me a brighter image with no flickering/ghosting so i can game the whole day without any side effects and ill have directx 9+10+11 support

I also get a super headache when using shutter glasses



Money is not a problem as I own an awesome IT Support company



I apologize if this question was answered or reviewed before, i was maybe too lazy to find it



Thank you :)

#1
Posted 05/18/2011 09:47 AM   
You could try using the iZ3D driver to achieve what you want.

It works as good as nvidia imho
You could try using the iZ3D driver to achieve what you want.



It works as good as nvidia imho

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#2
Posted 05/18/2011 10:24 AM   
1. LC shutterglasses flicker because bad time domain behavior , ideal shutter won't flicker.

( you know pilot's can see thru propeller blades without flicker just fine, propeller blades = mechanical shutter )

2. Passive polarized setup going to have ghosting, about 10 times more, this depends on the silverscreen properties, it's a tradeoff: pure "silver" (aluminium) going to give good ghosting behavior , but also going to give hotspot in the middle of the picture. If you coat the "silver" (aluminium) with extra layer of coating the hotspot won't be that bad, but crosstalk increases. Either way , it wont be ever as good as shutter rig.

3. You can game with DLP shutterrig for 9-10 hours just fine in my opinion, I did it , not once. Did nothing to me, I dont see flicker.


IMO, passive zero flicker marketing talk falls into no serious category, passive polarized 0 flicker 1080p is no serious category too,because in theory 2x1080p (even 1x 720p) shutterrig is better ,much less motion smearing at the expense of flicker , which you probably (98%) wont (cannot) perceive anyway. Feed 2x 3chip DLP with 2x60hz, alternate between them at/over 240hz, use better than LC shutters (good luck, rotfl), thats good as it gets on the short term, only input lag is bad. IMO, no need for polarized stuff.

Nice first post, pre-loaded with FUD. /thanks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thanks:' />

& sorry, I don't know why passive guys not made their own converter box already? Maybe they know it won't fly? /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':laugh:' />
1. LC shutterglasses flicker because bad time domain behavior , ideal shutter won't flicker.



( you know pilot's can see thru propeller blades without flicker just fine, propeller blades = mechanical shutter )



2. Passive polarized setup going to have ghosting, about 10 times more, this depends on the silverscreen properties, it's a tradeoff: pure "silver" (aluminium) going to give good ghosting behavior , but also going to give hotspot in the middle of the picture. If you coat the "silver" (aluminium) with extra layer of coating the hotspot won't be that bad, but crosstalk increases. Either way , it wont be ever as good as shutter rig.



3. You can game with DLP shutterrig for 9-10 hours just fine in my opinion, I did it , not once. Did nothing to me, I dont see flicker.





IMO, passive zero flicker marketing talk falls into no serious category, passive polarized 0 flicker 1080p is no serious category too,because in theory 2x1080p (even 1x 720p) shutterrig is better ,much less motion smearing at the expense of flicker , which you probably (98%) wont (cannot) perceive anyway. Feed 2x 3chip DLP with 2x60hz, alternate between them at/over 240hz, use better than LC shutters (good luck, rotfl), thats good as it gets on the short term, only input lag is bad. IMO, no need for polarized stuff.



Nice first post, pre-loaded with FUD. /thanks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thanks:' />



& sorry, I don't know why passive guys not made their own converter box already? Maybe they know it won't fly? /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':laugh:' />

#3
Posted 05/18/2011 10:29 AM   
Thanx for the replies

so what you are saying is that ill have a better and more enjoyable setup if i just buy a 120hz projector with shutter glasses?

i had heavy flicker @ 100hz with an old CRT
I also had heavy ghosting effects..

how much flicker is there @ 120hz?
is there any ghosting @ 120hz?
is there any specific brand of glasses i need to buy which is better than the rest?
can i split the 1 hdmi connection from my graphics card into a splitter and use 2 projectors at the same time? cause my living room's light levels are average-high...
would you rather buy 1 expensive 120hz projector or use 2 cheaper ones... like SLI and crossfire, its better to use 2 cheaper ones than 1 expensive one for the same total price
any specific type of projector screen? painted white? painted silver? film?
i want a screen size of around 200" as my 50" plasma is to small
will i notice a difference between 720p and 1080p when sitting about 3 meters from the screen?
would you rather go for DLP or 3LCD projector technology

Thank you very very much :)
Thanx for the replies



so what you are saying is that ill have a better and more enjoyable setup if i just buy a 120hz projector with shutter glasses?



i had heavy flicker @ 100hz with an old CRT

I also had heavy ghosting effects..



how much flicker is there @ 120hz?

is there any ghosting @ 120hz?

is there any specific brand of glasses i need to buy which is better than the rest?

can i split the 1 hdmi connection from my graphics card into a splitter and use 2 projectors at the same time? cause my living room's light levels are average-high...

would you rather buy 1 expensive 120hz projector or use 2 cheaper ones... like SLI and crossfire, its better to use 2 cheaper ones than 1 expensive one for the same total price

any specific type of projector screen? painted white? painted silver? film?

i want a screen size of around 200" as my 50" plasma is to small

will i notice a difference between 720p and 1080p when sitting about 3 meters from the screen?

would you rather go for DLP or 3LCD projector technology



Thank you very very much :)

#4
Posted 05/18/2011 12:59 PM   
Well , I'd say screen is more important than resolution or passive / active.

If you want to dedicate a whole room, then you should build rear projection setup . There are quite a few of those over avsforum , worth a look.

Also, there are several rear projection screen manufacturers you should try to sample the big names and compare with cheaper ones. The best ones might not be available in the size you require but I'd say go for quality over quantity when it comes to proj. screens, this also means you shouldn't pay top dollars for some generic material.

CRT at 100hz is asking for flicker... you only have 1.5 milliseconds of light every 10 ms ( 1/100). With DLP at 120hz , you have around ~4 milliseconds of light every 8.3ms (1 /120).

BTW this is also the 3dTV "240hz", they arent opening and closing the shutters at 240hz, they just have 4milliseconds of light every 8.3 ms. So its not like its actually 240hz.

If you want 8ms light per 8 ms frame length, then thats called a hold display and it has crap motion resolution (motion smearing), thats why you shouldn't do dual polarized.

No ghosting with DLP... If DLP has ghosting it's because of the glasses...we want better glasses already!!!
Well , I'd say screen is more important than resolution or passive / active.



If you want to dedicate a whole room, then you should build rear projection setup . There are quite a few of those over avsforum , worth a look.



Also, there are several rear projection screen manufacturers you should try to sample the big names and compare with cheaper ones. The best ones might not be available in the size you require but I'd say go for quality over quantity when it comes to proj. screens, this also means you shouldn't pay top dollars for some generic material.



CRT at 100hz is asking for flicker... you only have 1.5 milliseconds of light every 10 ms ( 1/100). With DLP at 120hz , you have around ~4 milliseconds of light every 8.3ms (1 /120).



BTW this is also the 3dTV "240hz", they arent opening and closing the shutters at 240hz, they just have 4milliseconds of light every 8.3 ms. So its not like its actually 240hz.



If you want 8ms light per 8 ms frame length, then thats called a hold display and it has crap motion resolution (motion smearing), thats why you shouldn't do dual polarized.



No ghosting with DLP... If DLP has ghosting it's because of the glasses...we want better glasses already!!!

#5
Posted 05/18/2011 02:00 PM   
or you can go ahead, and buy a prysm display, thats probably better than 99.5% of RP setups out there, they have some HQ in great-britain.

http://prysm.com/about_lpd.html
or you can go ahead, and buy a prysm display, thats probably better than 99.5% of RP setups out there, they have some HQ in great-britain.



http://prysm.com/about_lpd.html

#6
Posted 05/18/2011 02:33 PM   
im not sure you appreciate just how big 200" is,imagine 16 of your plasmas bolted together,the screen would be 15 foot wide and 9 foot high(so you need a pretty big house).

also the projector will need to be 24 foot from the screen(12 foot on a short throw)as for sitting distance 3 metres is impossible the reccomended distance is 7 metres.

a 120hz 1080p would be the jvc x3 as a cheap option £3,500

if that price dosent make our eyes water and you have the room good luck

if it does then maybe a 720p with a 90" screen is a good intro(the screen will still be almost 8 foot wide.
im not sure you appreciate just how big 200" is,imagine 16 of your plasmas bolted together,the screen would be 15 foot wide and 9 foot high(so you need a pretty big house).



also the projector will need to be 24 foot from the screen(12 foot on a short throw)as for sitting distance 3 metres is impossible the reccomended distance is 7 metres.



a 120hz 1080p would be the jvc x3 as a cheap option £3,500



if that price dosent make our eyes water and you have the room good luck



if it does then maybe a 720p with a 90" screen is a good intro(the screen will still be almost 8 foot wide.

#7
Posted 05/22/2011 11:16 AM   
200" is way too big imo may have to speak to others but I cant imagine how dark screen will be. Might want to find some1 who did it first and what paint they used. (200 inches is 16-18 person stretch limosine in size)

Expect to sit close to screen size away(practically minimum).

Don't buy a two projector set up without expecting to do tons of work. I know [u]Likay[/u] has this setup, may want to contact him.

PS 10-15 glasses is kind of insane. Like 500 for glasses that are DLP link minimum. 900 for nvidia. No idea on passive glasses but I think they are cheaper.

Dual display= No flicker. 120hz 3d. Lens pick up what only one eye is supposed to see kind of like ghosting but on and off(Or so I am led to believe unless its been improved.)
Single display=720p 3D(can do 1080p for movies on some). no flicker. DLP has no ghosting.

@Betelgus. Im 99% sure jvc3 can only do 1080p 24hz 3d since it doesnt use Dvi-dual link but hdmi. I think your thinking of its 2d capabilities.

Good Luck
200" is way too big imo may have to speak to others but I cant imagine how dark screen will be. Might want to find some1 who did it first and what paint they used. (200 inches is 16-18 person stretch limosine in size)



Expect to sit close to screen size away(practically minimum).



Don't buy a two projector set up without expecting to do tons of work. I know Likay has this setup, may want to contact him.



PS 10-15 glasses is kind of insane. Like 500 for glasses that are DLP link minimum. 900 for nvidia. No idea on passive glasses but I think they are cheaper.



Dual display= No flicker. 120hz 3d. Lens pick up what only one eye is supposed to see kind of like ghosting but on and off(Or so I am led to believe unless its been improved.)

Single display=720p 3D(can do 1080p for movies on some). no flicker. DLP has no ghosting.



@Betelgus. Im 99% sure jvc3 can only do 1080p 24hz 3d since it doesnt use Dvi-dual link but hdmi. I think your thinking of its 2d capabilities.



Good Luck

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#8
Posted 05/23/2011 01:04 AM   
Ultimate 3D projector setup would 3 X Nvidia 3D vision projector such as h5360 or optoma 66 set up in portrait mode, projecting an image to one 120+ inch 16:9 screen.
3 X 720p projecting on a giant screen like that probably looks pretty badass...and 2160x1280 resolution is very close to 16:9.

I am considering a setup like this for myself in the near future but some issues like not enough available throw distance, no lens shift on nvidia 3d vision projectors and decreasing bulb life are making me think twice.
Ultimate 3D projector setup would 3 X Nvidia 3D vision projector such as h5360 or optoma 66 set up in portrait mode, projecting an image to one 120+ inch 16:9 screen.

3 X 720p projecting on a giant screen like that probably looks pretty badass...and 2160x1280 resolution is very close to 16:9.



I am considering a setup like this for myself in the near future but some issues like not enough available throw distance, no lens shift on nvidia 3d vision projectors and decreasing bulb life are making me think twice.

#9
Posted 05/23/2011 02:00 AM   
Go the new Sharp XV-Z17000 1080 3D DLP projector. No ghosting, great PQ and nice and bright even on my 135" screen. Only issue is the extra glasses you need but they're only about $150 a pop (way cheaper than any dual projector setup will cost you).
Go the new Sharp XV-Z17000 1080 3D DLP projector. No ghosting, great PQ and nice and bright even on my 135" screen. Only issue is the extra glasses you need but they're only about $150 a pop (way cheaper than any dual projector setup will cost you).

#10
Posted 05/23/2011 04:04 AM   
[quote name='Ingmar' date='23 May 2011 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1306123468' post='1241113']
Go the new Sharp XV-Z17000 1080 3D DLP projector. No ghosting, great PQ and nice and bright even on my 135" screen. Only issue is the extra glasses you need but they're only about $150 a pop (way cheaper than any dual projector setup will cost you).
[/quote]
720p only for 3D gaming(3DTV play/HDMI 1.4 limitation)? I don't think thats worth paying 3000+ dollars for...
[quote name='Ingmar' date='23 May 2011 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1306123468' post='1241113']

Go the new Sharp XV-Z17000 1080 3D DLP projector. No ghosting, great PQ and nice and bright even on my 135" screen. Only issue is the extra glasses you need but they're only about $150 a pop (way cheaper than any dual projector setup will cost you).



720p only for 3D gaming(3DTV play/HDMI 1.4 limitation)? I don't think thats worth paying 3000+ dollars for...

#11
Posted 05/23/2011 04:23 AM   
For a surround rig like that,
I'd pay up to 1000 dollars for 21st century grade shutterglasses (x1 !!!, very important), 3x 550 for LED projectors, and 350 for screen , also spare no expense on DIY stuff.

It'd kick el-cheapo dual polarized butt, noone knows how far it'd land.
For a surround rig like that,

I'd pay up to 1000 dollars for 21st century grade shutterglasses (x1 !!!, very important), 3x 550 for LED projectors, and 350 for screen , also spare no expense on DIY stuff.



It'd kick el-cheapo dual polarized butt, noone knows how far it'd land.

#12
Posted 05/23/2011 06:15 AM   
[quote name='disolitude' date='23 May 2011 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1306124601' post='1241117']
720p only for 3D gaming(3DTV play/HDMI 1.4 limitation)? I don't think thats worth paying 3000+ dollars for...
[/quote]
Yeah cause that's all you get for your $3k isn't it? Oh no wait, no it's not. Top-notch 2D performance, unmatched ghost-free 1080p 3D performance for movies and excellent 720p 3D gaming performance that elitist snobs can't seem to get over.

If you bothered to look around, you'd see that LCD projectors offering similar (WITH ghosting) go for several thousand more.

Why am I even replying to this? Sigh.
[quote name='disolitude' date='23 May 2011 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1306124601' post='1241117']

720p only for 3D gaming(3DTV play/HDMI 1.4 limitation)? I don't think thats worth paying 3000+ dollars for...



Yeah cause that's all you get for your $3k isn't it? Oh no wait, no it's not. Top-notch 2D performance, unmatched ghost-free 1080p 3D performance for movies and excellent 720p 3D gaming performance that elitist snobs can't seem to get over.



If you bothered to look around, you'd see that LCD projectors offering similar (WITH ghosting) go for several thousand more.



Why am I even replying to this? Sigh.

#13
Posted 05/24/2011 03:02 AM   
[quote name='Ingmar' date='23 May 2011 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1306206126' post='1241517']
Yeah cause that's all you get for your $3k isn't it? Oh no wait, no it's not. Top-notch 2D performance, unmatched ghost-free 1080p 3D performance for movies and excellent 720p 3D gaming performance that elitist snobs can't seem to get over.

If you bothered to look around, you'd see that LCD projectors offering similar (WITH ghosting) go for several thousand more.

Why am I even replying to this? Sigh.
[/quote]
Shouldn't have replied then Jimmy. No point of crying about it when its all done.

At 2000 dollars we wouldn't be having this argument, but at 4000 its too expensive for what it offers.

For 4000 dollars (not 3000), this projector just isn't worth it. Something like Epson 8700 spanks it when it comes to 2D picture brightness, picture quality and contrast and costs half as much. And as far as 3D, projector is way too dark. Projectorcentral measured 1236 lumens as maximum and 959 when picture is optimized(link below). Good luck with that when it comes to 3D as shutter glasses cut down more than half of that brightness. I find my acer h5360 dark and its rated at 900 more lumens than the Sharp.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sharp_xv_z17000_projector_review.htm

My suggestion to people looking for an all in 1 3D projector is to buy a 720p one and wait 6 months to a year. In a year, 2000 bucks will get you much better 3D projectors than this Sharp.
[quote name='Ingmar' date='23 May 2011 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1306206126' post='1241517']

Yeah cause that's all you get for your $3k isn't it? Oh no wait, no it's not. Top-notch 2D performance, unmatched ghost-free 1080p 3D performance for movies and excellent 720p 3D gaming performance that elitist snobs can't seem to get over.



If you bothered to look around, you'd see that LCD projectors offering similar (WITH ghosting) go for several thousand more.



Why am I even replying to this? Sigh.



Shouldn't have replied then Jimmy. No point of crying about it when its all done.



At 2000 dollars we wouldn't be having this argument, but at 4000 its too expensive for what it offers.



For 4000 dollars (not 3000), this projector just isn't worth it. Something like Epson 8700 spanks it when it comes to 2D picture brightness, picture quality and contrast and costs half as much. And as far as 3D, projector is way too dark. Projectorcentral measured 1236 lumens as maximum and 959 when picture is optimized(link below). Good luck with that when it comes to 3D as shutter glasses cut down more than half of that brightness. I find my acer h5360 dark and its rated at 900 more lumens than the Sharp.



http://www.projectorcentral.com/sharp_xv_z17000_projector_review.htm



My suggestion to people looking for an all in 1 3D projector is to buy a 720p one and wait 6 months to a year. In a year, 2000 bucks will get you much better 3D projectors than this Sharp.

#14
Posted 05/24/2011 03:52 AM   
[quote name='disolitude' date='24 May 2011 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1306209167' post='1241534']
My suggestion to people looking for an all in 1 3D projector is to buy a 720p one and wait 6 months to a year. In a year, 2000 bucks will get you much better 3D projectors than this Sharp.
[/quote]
Wow, hot tip for those out there with time machines.

As for those without the means for time-travel, the Sharp is the [i]only[/i] consumer 1080p 3D DLP projector (i.e 100% ghost free) on the market today. And fyi, I'm pulling 20ft/lamberts on on 135" screen and it's sensational in 3D via the active shutter glasses. Thanks for your contribution though.
[quote name='disolitude' date='24 May 2011 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1306209167' post='1241534']

My suggestion to people looking for an all in 1 3D projector is to buy a 720p one and wait 6 months to a year. In a year, 2000 bucks will get you much better 3D projectors than this Sharp.



Wow, hot tip for those out there with time machines.



As for those without the means for time-travel, the Sharp is the only consumer 1080p 3D DLP projector (i.e 100% ghost free) on the market today. And fyi, I'm pulling 20ft/lamberts on on 135" screen and it's sensational in 3D via the active shutter glasses. Thanks for your contribution though.

#15
Posted 05/25/2011 11:19 AM   
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