...moving on
Palmer Lucky confirms SLI+OR is not a sure thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/cytiyz7
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/cytrmyy
Interesting lack of discussion about SLI on those threads. Based simply upon interest in the conversation, it doesn't look good for SLI.
That's bad, because NVidia actually did a good thing for once in a long while, and it looks like it will be ignored.
I took a look at their GameWorksVR SDK yesterday, and it's actually quite good for being this early. The SLI support is particularly good and easy to use. It does require direct intervention by the developer of the game and/or engine, but the discussions about adding latency are completely wrong for this scenario.
If people are expecting the driver to somehow automagically figure out how to add SLI with no support, then yes, of course there will be latency and it won't be particularly good.
The SLI demo and the code for the demo are good, and demonstrate that SLI is not even a big stretch, the devs just have to care. Not holding my breath.
Interesting lack of discussion about SLI on those threads. Based simply upon interest in the conversation, it doesn't look good for SLI.
That's bad, because NVidia actually did a good thing for once in a long while, and it looks like it will be ignored.
I took a look at their GameWorksVR SDK yesterday, and it's actually quite good for being this early. The SLI support is particularly good and easy to use. It does require direct intervention by the developer of the game and/or engine, but the discussions about adding latency are completely wrong for this scenario.
If people are expecting the driver to somehow automagically figure out how to add SLI with no support, then yes, of course there will be latency and it won't be particularly good.
The SLI demo and the code for the demo are good, and demonstrate that SLI is not even a big stretch, the devs just have to care. Not holding my breath.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
VR SLi Benchmarks + Video + discussion below:
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3gwnsm/nvidia-gameworks-vr-sli-test/[/url]
Huge improvement to both latency AND FPS.
*in a demo created by nVidia specifically to show off Gameworks VR
I'll take Palmer Lucky's word over nVidia's. It's not to say that SLI will never mean improvements in any game, but it does mean it's not a guarantee.
The problem is always going to be nVidia's support and having it work on more than just nVidia systems.
I think we all know where both these roads end.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]*in a demo created by nVidia specifically to show off Gameworks VR
I'll take Palmer Lucky's word over nVidia's. It's not to say that SLI will never mean improvements in any game, but it does mean it's not a guarantee.[/quote]
Actually that's not true. If you are GPU bound, and you properly implement SLI, you will most certainly get a dramatic improvement.
In VR, we are mostly going to be GPU bound because of the high pixel count plus high frame rate required for a decent experience. I do not think it is a stretch to say that SLI would [i]always [/i]help in the VR case.
The thing about this demo is something we call an existence proof. The fact that this demo exists proves that the technology [i]can[/i] work, and [i]can [/i]provide a dramatic improvement. Their SuperSampling example on the reddit page are a good example.
I looked at their code sample, and it's actually pretty simple to implement. It's not something that can be tacked on by the driver, nor something you'd try to squeeze in at the last second.
The fact that Palmer doesn't believe it just tells me he hasn't looked at their specific implementation yet.
The technology is proven to exist and work- but it still needs to be used by the devs. It requires a few setup calls, and avoiding egregious mistakes of copying data back and forth between eyes.
That why this is sad, it could be a real boon- but it will be ignored because of comments like Palmer's. Not saying NVidia did not earn that.
Pirateguybrush said:*in a demo created by nVidia specifically to show off Gameworks VR
I'll take Palmer Lucky's word over nVidia's. It's not to say that SLI will never mean improvements in any game, but it does mean it's not a guarantee.
Actually that's not true. If you are GPU bound, and you properly implement SLI, you will most certainly get a dramatic improvement.
In VR, we are mostly going to be GPU bound because of the high pixel count plus high frame rate required for a decent experience. I do not think it is a stretch to say that SLI would always help in the VR case.
The thing about this demo is something we call an existence proof. The fact that this demo exists proves that the technology can work, and can provide a dramatic improvement. Their SuperSampling example on the reddit page are a good example.
I looked at their code sample, and it's actually pretty simple to implement. It's not something that can be tacked on by the driver, nor something you'd try to squeeze in at the last second.
The fact that Palmer doesn't believe it just tells me he hasn't looked at their specific implementation yet.
The technology is proven to exist and work- but it still needs to be used by the devs. It requires a few setup calls, and avoiding egregious mistakes of copying data back and forth between eyes.
That why this is sad, it could be a real boon- but it will be ignored because of comments like Palmer's. Not saying NVidia did not earn that.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
What is he arguing there? I don't see him saying you don't get massive boosts with VR SLI. He's just saying what's always been known: It's not magic. A game has to support VR SLI and it can't be done at the post-release driver level.
I would imagine Unity and UE4 would both build it into their engine. And anyone else who was serious, would also do it to their game. Of course, if you're talking games that have been released and are just adding post-VR support, I wouldn't count on much help in that regard.
As anecdotal evidence, I think when AMD first released their version (they were the first with VR features), Valve tweeted that it literally took 2 hours for them to implement code to get a 100 percent boost in the VR software they added it to.
What is he arguing there? I don't see him saying you don't get massive boosts with VR SLI. He's just saying what's always been known: It's not magic. A game has to support VR SLI and it can't be done at the post-release driver level.
I would imagine Unity and UE4 would both build it into their engine. And anyone else who was serious, would also do it to their game. Of course, if you're talking games that have been released and are just adding post-VR support, I wouldn't count on much help in that regard.
As anecdotal evidence, I think when AMD first released their version (they were the first with VR features), Valve tweeted that it literally took 2 hours for them to implement code to get a 100 percent boost in the VR software they added it to.
I asked that first question in the AMA. I intentionally framed it with naiveté, just to see what Palmer would say. I was well aware that SLI support falls on developers and Nvidia GameReady drivers.
Nonetheless, a dismal situation for us multi-GPU VR early adopters. Every GPU generation I consider skipping SLI because of poor game support, but I eventually find enough AAA titles that I enjoy to warrant it. I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.
I asked that first question in the AMA. I intentionally framed it with naiveté, just to see what Palmer would say. I was well aware that SLI support falls on developers and Nvidia GameReady drivers.
Nonetheless, a dismal situation for us multi-GPU VR early adopters. Every GPU generation I consider skipping SLI because of poor game support, but I eventually find enough AAA titles that I enjoy to warrant it. I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.
Corsair 800D
ASUS x99 Deluxe (BIOS 1401)
Intel 5930k 6-core @ 4.5GHz/1.3v
2 × EVGA GTX 980 ACX 2.0 (1540MHz/8GHz)
Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz (16-16-16-39-T2)
Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SATA 3 SSD
Corsair AX1200
Noctua NH-D15 (2 fans)
Dell u3011 30" (2560x1600)
Windows 10
[quote="velocd"] I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.[/quote]
Pascal/ NVLink is supposed to replace SLI and offer better scaling for multiple GPU systems. So there will no longer be such a thing as SLI. 4 GPU configurations offered very little gains previously, with Pascal that's supposed to change by a large margin.
http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-pascal-architectures-nvlink-to-enable-8-way-multi-gpu-capability/
http://blogs.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/nvlink4.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBf8FLS6q8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFLUgAi9g50
velocd said: I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.
Pascal/ NVLink is supposed to replace SLI and offer better scaling for multiple GPU systems. So there will no longer be such a thing as SLI. 4 GPU configurations offered very little gains previously, with Pascal that's supposed to change by a large margin.
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="velocd"] I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.[/quote]
Pascal/ NVLink is supposed to replace SLI and offer better scaling for multiple GPU systems. So there will no longer be such a thing as SLI. 4 GPU configurations offered very little gains previously, with Pascal that's supposed to change by a large margin.[/quote]
NVLink for consumer use is years away. PCI-E will still be here for Pascal normal consumers. Can't speak for enterprise.
velocd said: I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.
Pascal/ NVLink is supposed to replace SLI and offer better scaling for multiple GPU systems. So there will no longer be such a thing as SLI. 4 GPU configurations offered very little gains previously, with Pascal that's supposed to change by a large margin.
NVLink for consumer use is years away. PCI-E will still be here for Pascal normal consumers. Can't speak for enterprise.
Corsair 800D
ASUS x99 Deluxe (BIOS 1401)
Intel 5930k 6-core @ 4.5GHz/1.3v
2 × EVGA GTX 980 ACX 2.0 (1540MHz/8GHz)
Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz (16-16-16-39-T2)
Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SATA 3 SSD
Corsair AX1200
Noctua NH-D15 (2 fans)
Dell u3011 30" (2560x1600)
Windows 10
The Vive "News": (Nothing really new but some might be interested in it).
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-and-htcs-vr-headset-preorders-begin-in-febru/1100-6433679/
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
Remember the early days of 3d vision? If you where an early adopter you know it was pretty limited. Things got much much better around 1 to 1-half years after the tech had launched. The same most def is going to be true with VR. Going to have a few nice "experiences" or games. Nothing really compelling will keep you coming back to it. This is pretty much what I've seen thus far with gearVR. You'll blow through the content then spend the rest of the time maybe checking out streaming videos / pictures. 2016 won't be "the year of VR" I'd wager 2017/2018 would be more realistic for proper content and better/lighter HMD's.
Knowing this $100 for gearVR is a no–brainer if you already have a s6/note5. I have fun with it and can see a hint of the future here. However $600 is a much harder pill to swallow, and I have a pc that can drive this already, unlike many others. (by percentage of steam users with an average of 970 or equivalent)
I have zero issues dropping well over $600 on a new monitor because I know I will be able to use all my stuff with it. This device is a lot more niche. I have not totally written off the rift but I think its really unlikely I will pre-order it.
Remember the early days of 3d vision? If you where an early adopter you know it was pretty limited. Things got much much better around 1 to 1-half years after the tech had launched. The same most def is going to be true with VR. Going to have a few nice "experiences" or games. Nothing really compelling will keep you coming back to it. This is pretty much what I've seen thus far with gearVR. You'll blow through the content then spend the rest of the time maybe checking out streaming videos / pictures. 2016 won't be "the year of VR" I'd wager 2017/2018 would be more realistic for proper content and better/lighter HMD's.
Knowing this $100 for gearVR is a no–brainer if you already have a s6/note5. I have fun with it and can see a hint of the future here. However $600 is a much harder pill to swallow, and I have a pc that can drive this already, unlike many others. (by percentage of steam users with an average of 970 or equivalent)
I have zero issues dropping well over $600 on a new monitor because I know I will be able to use all my stuff with it. This device is a lot more niche. I have not totally written off the rift but I think its really unlikely I will pre-order it.
Its going to be more expensive regardless of what anyone thinks.
Hopefully Valve has an ace up its sleeve for software/game. Otherwise I'd probably wait a year to see what happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jDo-NnyaY
Again, its not rally a full-fledged game imo but its scary/amazing how accurate the tracking on hand motions are and interactable.
Skip to 6:38
-------------
The early days of 3D vision were great tbh. Games were less advanced back then so much higher compatibility rate. The big diffence between early 3D vision and early VR is...
Full fledged games. You could play a tomb raider, or whatever on it. VR is a whole bunch of games that you will play for a couple of hours.
Its going to be more expensive regardless of what anyone thinks.
Hopefully Valve has an ace up its sleeve for software/game. Otherwise I'd probably wait a year to see what happens.
Again, its not rally a full-fledged game imo but its scary/amazing how accurate the tracking on hand motions are and interactable.
Skip to 6:38
-------------
The early days of 3D vision were great tbh. Games were less advanced back then so much higher compatibility rate. The big diffence between early 3D vision and early VR is...
Full fledged games. You could play a tomb raider, or whatever on it. VR is a whole bunch of games that you will play for a couple of hours.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Palmer Lucky confirms SLI+OR is not a sure thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/cytiyz7
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/cytrmyy
That's bad, because NVidia actually did a good thing for once in a long while, and it looks like it will be ignored.
I took a look at their GameWorksVR SDK yesterday, and it's actually quite good for being this early. The SLI support is particularly good and easy to use. It does require direct intervention by the developer of the game and/or engine, but the discussions about adding latency are completely wrong for this scenario.
If people are expecting the driver to somehow automagically figure out how to add SLI with no support, then yes, of course there will be latency and it won't be particularly good.
The SLI demo and the code for the demo are good, and demonstrate that SLI is not even a big stretch, the devs just have to care. Not holding my breath.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3gwnsm/nvidia-gameworks-vr-sli-test/
Huge improvement to both latency AND FPS.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I'll take Palmer Lucky's word over nVidia's. It's not to say that SLI will never mean improvements in any game, but it does mean it's not a guarantee.
I think we all know where both these roads end.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Actually that's not true. If you are GPU bound, and you properly implement SLI, you will most certainly get a dramatic improvement.
In VR, we are mostly going to be GPU bound because of the high pixel count plus high frame rate required for a decent experience. I do not think it is a stretch to say that SLI would always help in the VR case.
The thing about this demo is something we call an existence proof. The fact that this demo exists proves that the technology can work, and can provide a dramatic improvement. Their SuperSampling example on the reddit page are a good example.
I looked at their code sample, and it's actually pretty simple to implement. It's not something that can be tacked on by the driver, nor something you'd try to squeeze in at the last second.
The fact that Palmer doesn't believe it just tells me he hasn't looked at their specific implementation yet.
The technology is proven to exist and work- but it still needs to be used by the devs. It requires a few setup calls, and avoiding egregious mistakes of copying data back and forth between eyes.
That why this is sad, it could be a real boon- but it will be ignored because of comments like Palmer's. Not saying NVidia did not earn that.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I would imagine Unity and UE4 would both build it into their engine. And anyone else who was serious, would also do it to their game. Of course, if you're talking games that have been released and are just adding post-VR support, I wouldn't count on much help in that regard.
As anecdotal evidence, I think when AMD first released their version (they were the first with VR features), Valve tweeted that it literally took 2 hours for them to implement code to get a 100 percent boost in the VR software they added it to.
Nonetheless, a dismal situation for us multi-GPU VR early adopters. Every GPU generation I consider skipping SLI because of poor game support, but I eventually find enough AAA titles that I enjoy to warrant it. I think Pascal might be the first generation in a long time I skip SLI if VR developer support is weak.
Corsair 800D
ASUS x99 Deluxe (BIOS 1401)
Intel 5930k 6-core @ 4.5GHz/1.3v
2 × EVGA GTX 980 ACX 2.0 (1540MHz/8GHz)
Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz (16-16-16-39-T2)
Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SATA 3 SSD
Corsair AX1200
Noctua NH-D15 (2 fans)
Dell u3011 30" (2560x1600)
Windows 10
Pascal/ NVLink is supposed to replace SLI and offer better scaling for multiple GPU systems. So there will no longer be such a thing as SLI. 4 GPU configurations offered very little gains previously, with Pascal that's supposed to change by a large margin.
http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-pascal-architectures-nvlink-to-enable-8-way-multi-gpu-capability/
http://blogs.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/nvlink4.png
I just hope it is also true. It would be the first time in years when it would really make sense to upgrade.
Intel i7 8086K
Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti Aorus Extreme
DDR4 2x8gb 3200mhz Cl14
TV LG OLED65E6V
Windows 10 64bits
NVLink for consumer use is years away. PCI-E will still be here for Pascal normal consumers. Can't speak for enterprise.
Corsair 800D
ASUS x99 Deluxe (BIOS 1401)
Intel 5930k 6-core @ 4.5GHz/1.3v
2 × EVGA GTX 980 ACX 2.0 (1540MHz/8GHz)
Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz (16-16-16-39-T2)
Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SATA 3 SSD
Corsair AX1200
Noctua NH-D15 (2 fans)
Dell u3011 30" (2560x1600)
Windows 10
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-and-htcs-vr-headset-preorders-begin-in-febru/1100-6433679/
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
Knowing this $100 for gearVR is a no–brainer if you already have a s6/note5. I have fun with it and can see a hint of the future here. However $600 is a much harder pill to swallow, and I have a pc that can drive this already, unlike many others. (by percentage of steam users with an average of 970 or equivalent)
I have zero issues dropping well over $600 on a new monitor because I know I will be able to use all my stuff with it. This device is a lot more niche. I have not totally written off the rift but I think its really unlikely I will pre-order it.
Hopefully Valve has an ace up its sleeve for software/game. Otherwise I'd probably wait a year to see what happens.
Again, its not rally a full-fledged game imo but its scary/amazing how accurate the tracking on hand motions are and interactable.
Skip to 6:38
-------------
The early days of 3D vision were great tbh. Games were less advanced back then so much higher compatibility rate. The big diffence between early 3D vision and early VR is...
Full fledged games. You could play a tomb raider, or whatever on it. VR is a whole bunch of games that you will play for a couple of hours.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com