G-Sync + 3D Vision together... any hope?
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Can anybody throw any piece of hope about a future supporting "3D Vision + G-sync"? I know that today the two technologies are incompatible, but I don't know if there are any chance in the near future. I ask because I love G-sync since I bought my Dell S2716DG monitor, and also love 3D, but not at the cost of losing that great smoothness. The final result is that I hardly play 3D anymore since I experienced G-sync, and I only use it for testing or something like that, not for real playing.
Can anybody throw any piece of hope about a future supporting "3D Vision + G-sync"?

I know that today the two technologies are incompatible, but I don't know if there are any chance in the near future. I ask because I love G-sync since I bought my Dell S2716DG monitor, and also love 3D, but not at the cost of losing that great smoothness. The final result is that I hardly play 3D anymore since I experienced G-sync, and I only use it for testing or something like that, not for real playing.

- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 660 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)

#1
Posted 09/23/2016 05:04 PM   
It's very unlikely to happen.
It's very unlikely to happen.

#2
Posted 09/23/2016 05:05 PM   
G-Sync/variable refresh works because your LCD shows a still image the whole time until it refreshes, whether it's 60 times a second or 144, so it doesn't really matter if your computer tells it to refresh sooner rather than later or vice versa. 3D is a bit more complicated because the glasses take a snapshot to show each eye at 16.7 ms intervals. If you throw off the timing the whole thing gets really messy. I'm kind of going the opposite way since I'm starting to play 3D more and more to the point where I almost never play a game in 2D anymore, where I got my monitor primarily for G-Sync.
G-Sync/variable refresh works because your LCD shows a still image the whole time until it refreshes, whether it's 60 times a second or 144, so it doesn't really matter if your computer tells it to refresh sooner rather than later or vice versa. 3D is a bit more complicated because the glasses take a snapshot to show each eye at 16.7 ms intervals. If you throw off the timing the whole thing gets really messy.

I'm kind of going the opposite way since I'm starting to play 3D more and more to the point where I almost never play a game in 2D anymore, where I got my monitor primarily for G-Sync.

#3
Posted 09/23/2016 06:21 PM   
Was G-sync the be all and end all that dude who wrote Doom said it was? I have never seen it but surely it hasn't a sniff on 3D Vision right?
Was G-sync the be all and end all that dude who wrote Doom said it was?

I have never seen it but surely it hasn't a sniff on 3D Vision right?

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#4
Posted 09/23/2016 06:22 PM   
[quote="andysonofbob"]Was G-sync the be all and end all that dude who wrote Doom said it was? I have never seen it but surely it hasn't a sniff on 3D Vision right?[/quote] It's the best thing there is for 2D gaming on full-persistence displays. Doesn't really compare to 3D, though, because it's still only 2D after all.
andysonofbob said:Was G-sync the be all and end all that dude who wrote Doom said it was?

I have never seen it but surely it hasn't a sniff on 3D Vision right?

It's the best thing there is for 2D gaming on full-persistence displays. Doesn't really compare to 3D, though, because it's still only 2D after all.

#5
Posted 09/23/2016 06:59 PM   
I could use for a while ULMB + G-Sync with a drivers bug that I couldn't repeat, and it was awesome (first and only person in the world, maybe? No drawbacks, except that that combination could only work with exclusive fullscreen games that didn't trigger a resolution or refresh rate change at boot). And I have also checked that the 3D Vision 2 glasses can work at any Hz above 60Hz (opening a 3D screenshot and changing refresh rate. I had tried 64Hz, where I got 32Hz per eye), but only during that screenshot example. If ULMB + G-Sync is possible (just not officially. http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883 ), I have just slight hopes for 3D + G-Sync instead of zero hopes.
I could use for a while ULMB + G-Sync with a drivers bug that I couldn't repeat, and it was awesome (first and only person in the world, maybe? No drawbacks, except that that combination could only work with exclusive fullscreen games that didn't trigger a resolution or refresh rate change at boot). And I have also checked that the 3D Vision 2 glasses can work at any Hz above 60Hz (opening a 3D screenshot and changing refresh rate. I had tried 64Hz, where I got 32Hz per eye), but only during that screenshot example.

If ULMB + G-Sync is possible (just not officially. http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883 ), I have just slight hopes for 3D + G-Sync instead of zero hopes.

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

#6
Posted 09/23/2016 07:05 PM   
I find Gsync is a really shoddy solution anyway and borderline hak. On alot of games I have tried it you get screen black outs. Apparently this is a common thing after doing a bit of research on it.
I find Gsync is a really shoddy solution anyway and borderline hak.

On alot of games I have tried it you get screen black outs. Apparently this is a common thing after doing a bit of research on it.

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#7
Posted 09/23/2016 08:19 PM   
Technically, any passive 3D display can do 3D + Gsync simultaneously, I just don't believe I've seen any on the market. The problem with Nvidia 3D vision system is the use of active shutter glasses which do not like changes in refresh rates, your eyes wil lnotice the frequency changes, I don't believe there is any manic formula that would allow to compensate, and if there was one, it would be way too complex as it would require perfect knowledge of the display's light output at any refresh rate, and any brightness setting. Display manufacturers don't even bother calibrating their displays for even one setting. Don't even think they'd do it for every setting. There is also a significantly increased risk of interference with the lighting frequency since the shutter glasses would be constantly scanning a different frequency.
Technically, any passive 3D display can do 3D + Gsync simultaneously, I just don't believe I've seen any on the market.

The problem with Nvidia 3D vision system is the use of active shutter glasses which do not like changes in refresh rates, your eyes wil lnotice the frequency changes, I don't believe there is any manic formula that would allow to compensate, and if there was one, it would be way too complex as it would require perfect knowledge of the display's light output at any refresh rate, and any brightness setting.
Display manufacturers don't even bother calibrating their displays for even one setting. Don't even think they'd do it for every setting.
There is also a significantly increased risk of interference with the lighting frequency since the shutter glasses would be constantly scanning a different frequency.

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#8
Posted 09/23/2016 08:29 PM   
[quote="masterotaku"]I could use for a while ULMB + G-Sync with a drivers bug that I couldn't repeat, and it was awesome (first and only person in the world, maybe? No drawbacks, except that that combination could only work with exclusive fullscreen games that didn't trigger a resolution or refresh rate change at boot). And I have also checked that the 3D Vision 2 glasses can work at any Hz above 60Hz (opening a 3D screenshot and changing refresh rate. I had tried 64Hz, where I got 32Hz per eye), but only during that screenshot example. If ULMB + G-Sync is possible (just not officially. http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883 ), I have just slight hopes for 3D + G-Sync instead of zero hopes.[/quote] This is interesting. Did you notice any brightness fluctuations (apart from the flickering)? [quote="necropants"]I find Gsync is a really shoddy solution anyway and borderline hak. On alot of games I have tried it you get screen black outs. Apparently this is a common thing after doing a bit of research on it.[/quote] Is that because you have them (your PG278Qs) in Surround? I've only had one title refuse to work with G-Sync and it was a port from Mac.
masterotaku said:I could use for a while ULMB + G-Sync with a drivers bug that I couldn't repeat, and it was awesome (first and only person in the world, maybe? No drawbacks, except that that combination could only work with exclusive fullscreen games that didn't trigger a resolution or refresh rate change at boot). And I have also checked that the 3D Vision 2 glasses can work at any Hz above 60Hz (opening a 3D screenshot and changing refresh rate. I had tried 64Hz, where I got 32Hz per eye), but only during that screenshot example.

If ULMB + G-Sync is possible (just not officially. http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883 ), I have just slight hopes for 3D + G-Sync instead of zero hopes.

This is interesting. Did you notice any brightness fluctuations (apart from the flickering)?

necropants said:I find Gsync is a really shoddy solution anyway and borderline hak.

On alot of games I have tried it you get screen black outs. Apparently this is a common thing after doing a bit of research on it.

Is that because you have them (your PG278Qs) in Surround? I've only had one title refuse to work with G-Sync and it was a port from Mac.

#9
Posted 09/23/2016 11:26 PM   
[quote="aeliusg"] This is interesting. Did you notice any brightness fluctuations (apart from the flickering)?[/quote] Yes, but less than I expected (not distracting for me). Except for games with bad pacing. When there was bad frame pacing, it was noticeable that some frames caused brightness instability. Skyrim was good, Castlevania LoS too, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter Redux too... and The Witcher 1 wasn't (coincidentally the only game where I was CPU limited when I had the GTX 760. In the others I was GPU limited). I was aware of that mode for a day at most. I wanted to break that secret mode and reenable it again, but I failed to repeat it :(. At least I have some video proof, but I should have recorded more.
aeliusg said:
This is interesting. Did you notice any brightness fluctuations (apart from the flickering)?


Yes, but less than I expected (not distracting for me). Except for games with bad pacing. When there was bad frame pacing, it was noticeable that some frames caused brightness instability. Skyrim was good, Castlevania LoS too, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter Redux too... and The Witcher 1 wasn't (coincidentally the only game where I was CPU limited when I had the GTX 760. In the others I was GPU limited).

I was aware of that mode for a day at most. I wanted to break that secret mode and reenable it again, but I failed to repeat it :(. At least I have some video proof, but I should have recorded more.

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

#10
Posted 09/24/2016 12:01 AM   
[quote="masterotaku"][quote="aeliusg"] This is interesting. Did you notice any brightness fluctuations (apart from the flickering)?[/quote] Yes, but less than I expected (not distracting for me). Except for games with bad pacing. When there was bad frame pacing, it was noticeable that some frames caused brightness instability. Skyrim was good, Castlevania LoS too, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter Redux too... and The Witcher 1 wasn't (coincidentally the only game where I was CPU limited when I had the GTX 760. In the others I was GPU limited). I was aware of that mode for a day at most. I wanted to break that secret mode and reenable it again, but I failed to repeat it :(. At least I have some video proof, but I should have recorded more.[/quote] I don't know, but it sure does sound like you got it working somehow. Maybe they're saving it for "G-Sync version 3".
masterotaku said:
aeliusg said:
This is interesting. Did you notice any brightness fluctuations (apart from the flickering)?


Yes, but less than I expected (not distracting for me). Except for games with bad pacing. When there was bad frame pacing, it was noticeable that some frames caused brightness instability. Skyrim was good, Castlevania LoS too, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter Redux too... and The Witcher 1 wasn't (coincidentally the only game where I was CPU limited when I had the GTX 760. In the others I was GPU limited).

I was aware of that mode for a day at most. I wanted to break that secret mode and reenable it again, but I failed to repeat it :(. At least I have some video proof, but I should have recorded more.

I don't know, but it sure does sound like you got it working somehow. Maybe they're saving it for "G-Sync version 3".

#11
Posted 09/24/2016 02:14 AM   
I have managed (accidentally first) to enable G-Sync + ULMB for custom resolutions: https://youtu.be/e52T8d8mhfk https://youtu.be/8Hj-GNztJfE Copy-paste of the description: [quote]Variable refresh rate can work with strobing perfectly and it's available through a drivers bug. I don't have a 60fps camera, but you can see how it captures the variable refresh rate. How to do this (having a 3D Vision kit is necessary): 1- Enable 3D Vision and make sure Lightboost (not ULMB) is enabled in the desktop, using the "always" option. 2- Create a 120Hz custom resolution. I have tried 2389x1344 and 2528x1422. 3- Switch to G-Sync in the Nvidia CP without disabling 3D Vision first. 4- Now that custom resolution is locked into this G-Sync + ULMB mode (the monitor OSD will say "ULMB 120Hz"). My scaling settings is set to "No scaling" and also not using GPU scaling, in case this affects anything. Not doing step 1 made new custom resolutions just use G-Sync (unstrobed). Any fps under 40fps will double strobe and it works perfectly up to 120fps (after that it doesn't use more than 120Hz, so there is tearing). Any fps under 40fps will double strobe and it works perfectly up to 120fps (after that it doesn't use more than 120Hz, so there is tearing). Games must be using exclusive fullscreen (G-Sync in windowed mode doesn't work correctly for me, so it may be just my issue). Cemu worked, PCSX2 didn't. Changing resolution ingame works correctly (it switches to normal G-Sync at other resolutions). Games with uneven frame pacing (not meaning variable fps) can be a bit flickery at intervals. Brightness is just a bit variable, but it isn't noticeable unless you go from 120fps to 50fps suddenly or something like that. My specs: - Intel Core i5 4670K at 4.3GHz. - GSKILL Ripjaws X 16GB at 1600MHz CL7 - Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH (372.90 drivers) - Dell S2716DG - Windows 7 x64[/quote] S2716DG users, I'm summoning you! I need confirmation. And then together we have to ask Nvidia to make this official :).
I have managed (accidentally first) to enable G-Sync + ULMB for custom resolutions:


https://youtu.be/e52T8d8mhfk

https://youtu.be/8Hj-GNztJfE

Copy-paste of the description:

Variable refresh rate can work with strobing perfectly and it's available through a drivers bug.

I don't have a 60fps camera, but you can see how it captures the variable refresh rate.


How to do this (having a 3D Vision kit is necessary):

1- Enable 3D Vision and make sure Lightboost (not ULMB) is enabled in the desktop, using the "always" option.
2- Create a 120Hz custom resolution. I have tried 2389x1344 and 2528x1422.
3- Switch to G-Sync in the Nvidia CP without disabling 3D Vision first.
4- Now that custom resolution is locked into this G-Sync + ULMB mode (the monitor OSD will say "ULMB 120Hz").

My scaling settings is set to "No scaling" and also not using GPU scaling, in case this affects anything.

Not doing step 1 made new custom resolutions just use G-Sync (unstrobed).

Any fps under 40fps will double strobe and it works perfectly up to 120fps (after that it doesn't use more than 120Hz, so there is tearing).


Any fps under 40fps will double strobe and it works perfectly up to 120fps (after that it doesn't use more than 120Hz, so there is tearing).

Games must be using exclusive fullscreen (G-Sync in windowed mode doesn't work correctly for me, so it may be just my issue). Cemu worked, PCSX2 didn't.

Changing resolution ingame works correctly (it switches to normal G-Sync at other resolutions).

Games with uneven frame pacing (not meaning variable fps) can be a bit flickery at intervals.

Brightness is just a bit variable, but it isn't noticeable unless you go from 120fps to 50fps suddenly or something like that.

My specs:

- Intel Core i5 4670K at 4.3GHz.
- GSKILL Ripjaws X 16GB at 1600MHz CL7
- Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH (372.90 drivers)
- Dell S2716DG
- Windows 7 x64


S2716DG users, I'm summoning you! I need confirmation. And then together we have to ask Nvidia to make this official :).

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

#12
Posted 09/27/2016 07:38 PM   
Excellent work! I'll have to try this with the PG278Q later.
Excellent work! I'll have to try this with the PG278Q later.

#13
Posted 09/27/2016 08:24 PM   
Video I made about how to do it: https://youtu.be/lYs12P6l6_Y
Video I made about how to do it:


https://youtu.be/lYs12P6l6_Y

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

#14
Posted 09/29/2016 06:00 AM   
I think that doing the trick is impossible without the 3D emitter. It's needed to make the dropdown options to appear in the stereoscopic 3D section. I made a reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/553q20/gsync_ulmb_at_the_same_time_proof_and_howto/ I'm afraid that most people there don't have the 3D Vision kit. I know some of you have my same monitor. Can you try it?
I think that doing the trick is impossible without the 3D emitter. It's needed to make the dropdown options to appear in the stereoscopic 3D section.

I made a reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/553q20/gsync_ulmb_at_the_same_time_proof_and_howto/


I'm afraid that most people there don't have the 3D Vision kit. I know some of you have my same monitor. Can you try it?

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

#15
Posted 09/30/2016 02:02 PM   
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