The Oculus Rift vs 3D Vision 2
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[quote="Libertine"] The additional head tracking in one reason. The fact that they use a special lens which adjusts more pixels to the center so it has increased resolution there is another, because the image must be morphed so it looks right. A least a few people seem to think the basic 3D support, like Nvidia, won't be a problem.[/quote] Is this a physical lens? or a "software lens"? A fixed physical lens should not require any special software or drivers to use it. To create a warped image, they could either use a fixed physical lens, or use a display with non-uniform pixel density (as you said, higher pixel density in the center). No special drivers requied. Yes, head tracking would require drivers but it could be a separate feature with an on/off switch. Head tracking can be as simple as mounting an air mouse on your head. Should be possible to do without any support from developers. I personally tested my PC by connecting 2 mice at the same time: PS/2 mouse and USB mouse. They both work at the same time. I dont own an air mouse, but if I wanted to, I could mount an air mouse to a hat and use it as basic headtracking in any game I want. I hope you are right that the Oculus will be compatible with nvidia 3D, but so far, I see little reason to be optimistic.
Libertine said:
The additional head tracking in one reason. The fact that they use a special lens which adjusts more pixels to the center so it has increased resolution there is another, because the image must be morphed so it looks right. A least a few people seem to think the basic 3D support, like Nvidia, won't be a problem.

Is this a physical lens? or a "software lens"? A fixed physical lens should not require any special software or drivers to use it. To create a warped image, they could either use a fixed physical lens, or use a display with non-uniform pixel density (as you said, higher pixel density in the center). No special drivers requied.

Yes, head tracking would require drivers but it could be a separate feature with an on/off switch.
Head tracking can be as simple as mounting an air mouse on your head. Should be possible to do without any support from developers. I personally tested my PC by connecting 2 mice at the same time: PS/2 mouse and USB mouse. They both work at the same time. I dont own an air mouse, but if I wanted to, I could mount an air mouse to a hat and use it as basic headtracking in any game I want.

I hope you are right that the Oculus will be compatible with nvidia 3D, but so far, I see little reason to be optimistic.

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#31
Posted 12/06/2012 12:21 PM   
I didn't say it would be compatible with Nvidia, just that some people thought 3D, like Nivida and Tridef do, could be doable. Physical lens.
I didn't say it would be compatible with Nvidia, just that some people thought 3D, like Nivida and Tridef do, could be doable.

Physical lens.

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#32
Posted 12/06/2012 03:45 PM   
I cannot believe I am going to say this but I dont think I would be willing to wear it! At this time it looks too clunky for comfortable, long session gaming. Does your head just move your in game head, or gun and head? It didnt seem clear in the video. I am always cautious with reviewers like this - when I showcase 3D to my peers most people have experienced 3D in one form or other, but are consistenly blown away by my setup. Because I have set it up properly. That sounds arrogant doesn't it! :) My dream VR would have sensor on your hands for gun/movement control supported by gun/flightyoke etc models etc. I would love to try it though.
I cannot believe I am going to say this but I dont think I would be willing to wear it! At this time it looks too clunky for comfortable, long session gaming.

Does your head just move your in game head, or gun and head? It didnt seem clear in the video.

I am always cautious with reviewers like this - when I showcase 3D to my peers most people have experienced 3D in one form or other, but are consistenly blown away by my setup. Because I have set it up properly. That sounds arrogant doesn't it! :)

My dream VR would have sensor on your hands for gun/movement control supported by gun/flightyoke etc models etc.

I would love to try it though.

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#33
Posted 12/06/2012 05:18 PM   
Andysonofbob, the demo I saw was Doom BFG edition and it was the same controls as the original Doom game. So the Oculus would allow you to look around using your head instead of the mouse. One guy said "it feels like I have a gun attached to the end of my nose". This to me shows how some FPS games were not developed with a head mounted display in mind. Like I said in an earlier post, the ideal use of the Rift in a FPS game would allow your head to move independently from your body and gun until you actually hit a button to look down your weapon or through the scope of the weapon. So your crosshairs would move with your mouse instead of your head until you hit the aim button. This would be more like real life when you are shooting a weapon from the hip, while freely looking at all of your targets. Driving and flying games on the otherhand will be a perfect fit for the Rift. Cockpit views combined with the Rift will allow the player to look out of windows at targets and obstacles. This is not a hardware issue, it is a software issue. The games in the future that want to take advantage of the Rift will need to be developed with the head-mounted display in mind.
Andysonofbob, the demo I saw was Doom BFG edition and it was the same controls as the original Doom game. So the Oculus would allow you to look around using your head instead of the mouse. One guy said "it feels like I have a gun attached to the end of my nose". This to me shows how some FPS games were not developed with a head mounted display in mind.

Like I said in an earlier post, the ideal use of the Rift in a FPS game would allow your head to move independently from your body and gun until you actually hit a button to look down your weapon or through the scope of the weapon. So your crosshairs would move with your mouse instead of your head until you hit the aim button. This would be more like real life when you are shooting a weapon from the hip, while freely looking at all of your targets. Driving and flying games on the otherhand will be a perfect fit for the Rift. Cockpit views combined with the Rift will allow the player to look out of windows at targets and obstacles.

This is not a hardware issue, it is a software issue. The games in the future that want to take advantage of the Rift will need to be developed with the head-mounted display in mind.

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#34
Posted 12/06/2012 09:18 PM   
I imagine in an ideal situation aiming would work similar to this video (trackIR in ARMA 2) http://youtu.be/9wXx3vMy_AQ?t=6m41s
I imagine in an ideal situation aiming would work similar to this video (trackIR in ARMA 2)


http://youtu.be/9wXx3vMy_AQ?t=6m41s

#35
Posted 01/24/2013 03:30 PM   
I ordered a devkit just because I'm interested in the experience. I think most games supporting the Rift will be Indie developers. If the OR will become what I'm hoping it will, I'll sell my 3D vision setup without blinking an eye. I love Nvidia for giving me 3D Vision, but NOTHING more.
I ordered a devkit just because I'm interested in the experience.

I think most games supporting the Rift will be Indie developers.

If the OR will become what I'm hoping it will, I'll sell my 3D vision setup without blinking an eye.

I love Nvidia for giving me 3D Vision, but NOTHING more.

#36
Posted 01/24/2013 11:36 PM   
[quote="andysonofbob"] when I showcase 3D to my peers most people have experienced 3D in one form or other, but are consistenly blown away by my setup. Because I have set it up properly. That sounds arrogant doesn't it! :) [/quote] Doesn't sound arrogant to me...if I never saw a game that was set up correctly, I would not likely be on this part of the forum.... I must confess that originally when I first heard about 3D Vision, my reaction was oh gawwd, not another gimmick. My initial thought was that of 3D movies which has never impressed me. Now here is the kicker, I did see a demo of a 3rd Person shooter and that changed my tune immediately. I was blown away and have been playing 3D only ever since. There is a notable distinction of immersion between PC games and movies. It's great that most games can be adjusted for depth and convergence, makes a huge world of difference. The Helix DLL wrapper with community fixes is the icing on the cake. Anyone who has seen my setup are blown away...
andysonofbob said: when I showcase 3D to my peers most people have experienced 3D in one form or other, but are consistenly blown away by my setup. Because I have set it up properly. That sounds arrogant doesn't it! :)


Doesn't sound arrogant to me...if I never saw a game that was set up correctly, I would not likely be on this part of the forum....

I must confess that originally when I first heard about 3D Vision, my reaction was oh gawwd, not another gimmick. My initial thought was that of 3D movies which has never impressed me. Now here is the kicker, I did see a demo of a 3rd Person shooter and that changed my tune immediately. I was blown away and have been playing 3D only ever since. There is a notable distinction of immersion between PC games and movies. It's great that most games can be adjusted for depth and convergence, makes a huge world of difference. The Helix DLL wrapper with community fixes is the icing on the cake. Anyone who has seen my setup are blown away...

#37
Posted 01/25/2013 01:03 AM   
@schmeltzer +1 same
@schmeltzer
+1 same

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#38
Posted 01/25/2013 01:27 AM   
As someone who loves 3D vision and also has used many HMDs, I'm totally excited for the Rift. I'm excited for both the device itself and what it will mean for 3D vision on monitors. From experience when HMDs are done right there is a qualitative difference than 3D vision and is tremendously immersive. I'm talking good wrap around HMDs, not "virtual screens" like the HMZ... Really the best experiences will have to have VR in mind to make the controls feel right. At the same time I think a lot of the issues that plague 3Dvision usage will be the same in the Rift (incorrect shadows, HUD issues, etc) so I think people developing for the Rift will only help 3D vision users because more shaders will behave in 3D, cut scenes will have sane convergence settings, etc. Yes, you have to do a bunch of warping, etc to make a side-by-side specifically for the rift, but the get there the rest of your pipeline needs to behave with stereoscopic rendering so we should see more and more titles behaving out of the box for 3D vision without the need for explicit support... at least that's the hope. I haven't got my rift yet (2 on order), but two co-workers have used the prototype (the old 5" not the 7" shipping to devs) and they said despite some of the blur to the old LCDs the sense of immersion was unmatched and one commented that the 3D was unlike anything he had experienced, even in other HMDs. I asked them about the low resolution and neither said they really noticed. When they stopped to examine pixels and such they could see them, but once they started moving around they got completely sucked into the game. One of our graphics programmers who tried it is more excited about working with it that any other hardware I've seen in a long time. I think developers are pretty stoked so I'd expect more support for the Rift than 3D vision has seen.
As someone who loves 3D vision and also has used many HMDs, I'm totally excited for the Rift. I'm excited for both the device itself and what it will mean for 3D vision on monitors. From experience when HMDs are done right there is a qualitative difference than 3D vision and is tremendously immersive. I'm talking good wrap around HMDs, not "virtual screens" like the HMZ... Really the best experiences will have to have VR in mind to make the controls feel right. At the same time I think a lot of the issues that plague 3Dvision usage will be the same in the Rift (incorrect shadows, HUD issues, etc) so I think people developing for the Rift will only help 3D vision users because more shaders will behave in 3D, cut scenes will have sane convergence settings, etc. Yes, you have to do a bunch of warping, etc to make a side-by-side specifically for the rift, but the get there the rest of your pipeline needs to behave with stereoscopic rendering so we should see more and more titles behaving out of the box for 3D vision without the need for explicit support... at least that's the hope.

I haven't got my rift yet (2 on order), but two co-workers have used the prototype (the old 5" not the 7" shipping to devs) and they said despite some of the blur to the old LCDs the sense of immersion was unmatched and one commented that the 3D was unlike anything he had experienced, even in other HMDs. I asked them about the low resolution and neither said they really noticed. When they stopped to examine pixels and such they could see them, but once they started moving around they got completely sucked into the game.

One of our graphics programmers who tried it is more excited about working with it that any other hardware I've seen in a long time. I think developers are pretty stoked so I'd expect more support for the Rift than 3D vision has seen.

#39
Posted 01/25/2013 05:27 PM   
Yeah I cant wait for it, sure will blow everything else away and im thinking to that it will be good for even 3d vision as you said astonish. Man the Rift will be fucking awesome and gaming will forever be changed, as the fucker in the UFC say, lets bring it on :D
Yeah I cant wait for it, sure will blow everything else away and im thinking to that it will be good for even 3d vision as you said astonish.

Man the Rift will be fucking awesome and gaming will forever be changed, as the fucker in the UFC say, lets bring it on :D

#40
Posted 01/25/2013 05:41 PM   
I'm assuming that, even though the Rift has a overall high FOV, the actual usable FOV is going to be more limited. Probably being limited by the lenses and the warping, looking around fully with your eyes won't look nearly as nice as turning your head to look and just focusing forward at the sweet spot. That sweet spot will govern the usable FOV and the rest will just lend to immersion. I also don't think it'll ever replace my 3D Vision setup fully as it's geared more towards FPS than anything else, still plenty of other things to play in 3D. I'm still extremely interested in it. I'd love to be able to play Rage and Half-Life 3 on it and with id, Epic and Valve showing support for it, it could be a reality. If nVidia knew what was good for them they'd be trying team up with Oculus right now. Heck, slap a Tegra 3 or 4 in the thing and you could have a all-in-one unit. OR could be the push 3D Vision needs to gain some newer refreshed support on the development and consumer side of things.
I'm assuming that, even though the Rift has a overall high FOV, the actual usable FOV is going to be more limited. Probably being limited by the lenses and the warping, looking around fully with your eyes won't look nearly as nice as turning your head to look and just focusing forward at the sweet spot. That sweet spot will govern the usable FOV and the rest will just lend to immersion.

I also don't think it'll ever replace my 3D Vision setup fully as it's geared more towards FPS than anything else, still plenty of other things to play in 3D. I'm still extremely interested in it. I'd love to be able to play Rage and Half-Life 3 on it and with id, Epic and Valve showing support for it, it could be a reality.

If nVidia knew what was good for them they'd be trying team up with Oculus right now. Heck, slap a Tegra 3 or 4 in the thing and you could have a all-in-one unit. OR could be the push 3D Vision needs to gain some newer refreshed support on the development and consumer side of things.
#41
Posted 01/25/2013 07:38 PM   
dubble post, sorry/
dubble post, sorry/

#42
Posted 01/26/2013 07:54 PM   
I wish that Nvidia would focus more on updating the 3d vision driver itself. So that more games will be 3D playable out of the box. more on topic: Again, the good news is that pretty much all the reviews I've read so far seem very positive. Another thing, once I have my OR devkit and I really like it, I'll be inviting as many people as I can to demo it. more offtopic: @eqzitara: is there a way to know which games you and helix are planning to fix?
I wish that Nvidia would focus more on updating the 3d vision driver itself. So that more games will be 3D playable out of the box.


more on topic:
Again, the good news is that pretty much all the reviews I've read so far seem very positive.

Another thing, once I have my OR devkit and I really like it, I'll be inviting as many people as I can to demo it.

more offtopic:

@eqzitara: is there a way to know which games you and helix are planning to fix?

#43
Posted 01/26/2013 08:01 PM   
I have paid for it and think it will be worth it. I've been working on adding full head tracking and weapon tracking to Half-Life 2 in preparation for the dev kit launch. Once the official rift apis are available I'll integrate them, giving people ~70 hours of content (this also works for episode 1 & 2, the lost coast and tons of user generated maps, etc) that they can use to test out their Rift. I'm using two hillcrest trackers (the same ones that John Carmack used for the Doom 3 BFG demos of the early oculus rift prototype). I've been playing with my modified HMZ-T1 but others have played it on DIY rifts with the vireio stereo/warp drivers. I'm currently testing different controllers, in the video I'm using a "top shot elite" that is effectively a wireless xbox 360 controller, and used electrical tape to hold the hillcrest tracker on the top. Check out my video for more info and a download link if your interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H2rL-lBxRs
I have paid for it and think it will be worth it. I've been working on adding full head tracking and weapon tracking to Half-Life 2 in preparation for the dev kit launch. Once the official rift apis are available I'll integrate them, giving people ~70 hours of content (this also works for episode 1 & 2, the lost coast and tons of user generated maps, etc) that they can use to test out their Rift.

I'm using two hillcrest trackers (the same ones that John Carmack used for the Doom 3 BFG demos of the early oculus rift prototype). I've been playing with my modified HMZ-T1 but others have played it on DIY rifts with the vireio stereo/warp drivers.

I'm currently testing different controllers, in the video I'm using a "top shot elite" that is effectively a wireless xbox 360 controller, and used electrical tape to hold the hillcrest tracker on the top.

Check out my video for more info and a download link if your interested:

#44
Posted 02/04/2013 12:30 AM   
[quote="adoral84"]I have paid for it and think it will be worth it. I've been working on adding full head tracking and weapon tracking to Half-Life 2 in preparation for the dev kit launch. Once the official rift apis are available I'll integrate them, giving people ~70 hours of content (this also works for episode 1 & 2, the lost coast and tons of user generated maps, etc) that they can use to test out their Rift. I'm using two hillcrest trackers (the same ones that John Carmack used for the Doom 3 BFG demos of the early oculus rift prototype). I've been playing with my modified HMZ-T1 but others have played it on DIY rifts with the vireio stereo/warp drivers. I'm currently testing different controllers, in the video I'm using a "top shot elite" that is effectively a wireless xbox 360 controller, and used electrical tape to hold the hillcrest tracker on the top. Check out my video for more info and a download link if your interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H2rL-lBxRs[/quote] Took a look at your youtube video, really cool stuff. Are you having any motion sickness, I noticed the image moving according to where you are looking. Just curious on how you handle Freemans movement through the game world, on the gun? Also, I guess it would be uncomfortable sitting down? I'd hate to get into the game and have no sense where my body is, I recall trying a VR system years back which had rudimentary graphics. It was VR boxing and we stood inside an area that had physical boundaries that would prevent you from walking into something...lol This will complement the OR nicely...
adoral84 said:I have paid for it and think it will be worth it. I've been working on adding full head tracking and weapon tracking to Half-Life 2 in preparation for the dev kit launch. Once the official rift apis are available I'll integrate them, giving people ~70 hours of content (this also works for episode 1 & 2, the lost coast and tons of user generated maps, etc) that they can use to test out their Rift. I'm using two hillcrest trackers (the same ones that John Carmack used for the Doom 3 BFG demos of the early oculus rift prototype). I've been playing with my modified HMZ-T1 but others have played it on DIY rifts with the vireio stereo/warp drivers. I'm currently testing different controllers, in the video I'm using a "top shot elite" that is effectively a wireless xbox 360 controller, and used electrical tape to hold the hillcrest tracker on the top. Check out my video for more info and a download link if your interested:



Took a look at your youtube video, really cool stuff. Are you having any motion sickness, I noticed the image moving according to where you are looking. Just curious on how you handle Freemans movement through the game world, on the gun? Also, I guess it would be uncomfortable sitting down? I'd hate to get into the game and have no sense where my body is, I recall trying a VR system years back which had rudimentary graphics. It was VR boxing and we stood inside an area that had physical boundaries that would prevent you from walking into something...lol

This will complement the OR nicely...

#45
Posted 02/04/2013 01:41 AM   
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