[quote="eqzitara"]I 100% could run around with an Omni.[/quote]
I agree that the future of VR [u]needs[/u] an input device like the omni or katwalk, so that we can walk forever in a single direction. This allows for epic massive games that room scale doesn't seem to permit in it's current state.
I also was thinking about getting an OMNI, but the gait is not normal. It's terrible. An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice.
If there was something that allowed us to walk and run with a normal gait I would buy it in a heartbeat, as long as it was £1000 or under.
Anyway, the reason I came here is this. Is there any chance Nvidia 3D can be ported over to the Vive? It would be great to play 3D games on the rift as crosstalk would be finally eliminated. It would also mean my wife could play 3D games with me.
eqzitara said:I 100% could run around with an Omni.
I agree that the future of VR needs an input device like the omni or katwalk, so that we can walk forever in a single direction. This allows for epic massive games that room scale doesn't seem to permit in it's current state.
I also was thinking about getting an OMNI, but the gait is not normal. It's terrible. An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice.
If there was something that allowed us to walk and run with a normal gait I would buy it in a heartbeat, as long as it was £1000 or under.
Anyway, the reason I came here is this. Is there any chance Nvidia 3D can be ported over to the Vive? It would be great to play 3D games on the rift as crosstalk would be finally eliminated. It would also mean my wife could play 3D games with me.
[quote="foreverseeking"]
I also was thinking about getting an OMNI, but the gait is not normal. It's terrible. An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice.
If there was something that allowed us to walk and run with a normal gait I would buy it in a heartbeat, as long as it was £1000 or under.
[/quote]
Normal gait? Did you saw that [url=http://cyberith.com/product/]Cyberith virtualizer[/url] has a flat platform ?
[img]http://s1.dmcdn.net/NQslz/1280x720-WHP.jpg[/img]
foreverseeking said:
I also was thinking about getting an OMNI, but the gait is not normal. It's terrible. An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice.
If there was something that allowed us to walk and run with a normal gait I would buy it in a heartbeat, as long as it was £1000 or under.
[quote="foreverseeking]An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice. [/quote]
While I do see the concern, computer technology in it's current form is also not good for wrists, eyes, and all the other body parts you mentioned due to lack of physical exercise. Game consoles and PC's has induced sedentary lifestyles and let's not forget gluttony because of the abundance of foods we consume. At least VR can induce physical exercise. Every industry has an eye on the dollar and I suspect practices like your friend will pounce on the idea selling shoes, harnesses or accessories that will reduce the risk of the things you mentioned earlier. I play a lot of soccer and although my cardiovascular system is top notch, the rest of my body has taken a beating over the years and the only thing you can do to combat wear and tear, is muscle strengthening. I love playing soccer way too much and I have already forfeited the thoughts of what about my ankles, knees or any other physical risk. I have been playing for over 35 years and I am still going strong. Many sports are actually not good for the joints, ankles and back and often has a high risk for injury. The human body is quite resilient and if you take care of it and exercise, this is actually more of a benefit than a negative. Sitting in a chair for hours in front of a screen and not doing any exercise year after year is actually far worse than the other risks you mentioned. Everything is perception and I have no concern with any of these VR accessories. I'm sure that these full motion accessories for VR will get better in quality and deal with issues or concerns that health professionals mention.
VR with the full body motion will motivate people to get off their asses!
foreverseeking said:An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice.
While I do see the concern, computer technology in it's current form is also not good for wrists, eyes, and all the other body parts you mentioned due to lack of physical exercise. Game consoles and PC's has induced sedentary lifestyles and let's not forget gluttony because of the abundance of foods we consume. At least VR can induce physical exercise. Every industry has an eye on the dollar and I suspect practices like your friend will pounce on the idea selling shoes, harnesses or accessories that will reduce the risk of the things you mentioned earlier. I play a lot of soccer and although my cardiovascular system is top notch, the rest of my body has taken a beating over the years and the only thing you can do to combat wear and tear, is muscle strengthening. I love playing soccer way too much and I have already forfeited the thoughts of what about my ankles, knees or any other physical risk. I have been playing for over 35 years and I am still going strong. Many sports are actually not good for the joints, ankles and back and often has a high risk for injury. The human body is quite resilient and if you take care of it and exercise, this is actually more of a benefit than a negative. Sitting in a chair for hours in front of a screen and not doing any exercise year after year is actually far worse than the other risks you mentioned. Everything is perception and I have no concern with any of these VR accessories. I'm sure that these full motion accessories for VR will get better in quality and deal with issues or concerns that health professionals mention.
VR with the full body motion will motivate people to get off their asses!
Hey Ghanth, thanks for the link it's aooreciated. I have seen that too, but it's essentially moonwalking not walking. That doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Also from what I have read, people who have used both preferred the omni.
Stryker you are right, many things are bad for us, expecially when over done (watching a monitor, small movements of a mouse etc). But walking with a weird gait is not just one joint, it's your entire body, spine, hips knees, feet. Your feet move in a different way, and you weight is shifted. This Orthopedist deals with a lot of women suffering all kinds of issues, from the hips, feet spine and even neck, caused by high heels. It's not like football or other sports, where although you are putting high stress on your joints you are still moving naturally. With this machine, you are walking in a way you never would or could in real life. That's a kind of stress you were never designed to have.
Maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but as someone who has experienced excruciating amounts of leg pains, which I never figured out (doctors also) until I met him, caused by bad gait (my feet were spreading out in a weird way) I now pay heed to it. My issue was solved after a year of wearing inlays to walk with a normal step again.
So maybe it won't be so bad. But I would rather people know the potential risks, as at least then they can make a semi-educated choice. I personally will be waiting a little longer to see what comes out, and also to read a few reviews after people have used them intensively for a few months.
One thing I agree 100% with you though, VR with full body motion will get people of their arses! Hence why I would only get a Vive now. I personally want to be able to run around a LOTR environment with my wife, working up a sweat whilst swinging a staff around. Could be a great fun way to get a little exercise, especially during the winter months.
Hey Ghanth, thanks for the link it's aooreciated. I have seen that too, but it's essentially moonwalking not walking. That doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Also from what I have read, people who have used both preferred the omni.
Stryker you are right, many things are bad for us, expecially when over done (watching a monitor, small movements of a mouse etc). But walking with a weird gait is not just one joint, it's your entire body, spine, hips knees, feet. Your feet move in a different way, and you weight is shifted. This Orthopedist deals with a lot of women suffering all kinds of issues, from the hips, feet spine and even neck, caused by high heels. It's not like football or other sports, where although you are putting high stress on your joints you are still moving naturally. With this machine, you are walking in a way you never would or could in real life. That's a kind of stress you were never designed to have.
Maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but as someone who has experienced excruciating amounts of leg pains, which I never figured out (doctors also) until I met him, caused by bad gait (my feet were spreading out in a weird way) I now pay heed to it. My issue was solved after a year of wearing inlays to walk with a normal step again.
So maybe it won't be so bad. But I would rather people know the potential risks, as at least then they can make a semi-educated choice. I personally will be waiting a little longer to see what comes out, and also to read a few reviews after people have used them intensively for a few months.
One thing I agree 100% with you though, VR with full body motion will get people of their arses! Hence why I would only get a Vive now. I personally want to be able to run around a LOTR environment with my wife, working up a sweat whilst swinging a staff around. Could be a great fun way to get a little exercise, especially during the winter months.
Tbh something about the cyberith scares me. Your essentially slipping and relying on unit around center to keep you up. It design makes me question what happens when you acidentally slide or extend to far. Sure it might hold together from a fall but what about two or three.
Like what if your foot trips on outside of ring. Then your relying on the middle unit which is frankly supposed to move/ not stable
The virtuix kind of keeps you in centered so I am not worried about it.
Not saying Cyberiths design is bad. I can see its ALOT better for ducking and jumping.. but frankly I never want to jump in real life let alone on one of those things.
Tbh something about the cyberith scares me. Your essentially slipping and relying on unit around center to keep you up. It design makes me question what happens when you acidentally slide or extend to far. Sure it might hold together from a fall but what about two or three.
Like what if your foot trips on outside of ring. Then your relying on the middle unit which is frankly supposed to move/ not stable
The virtuix kind of keeps you in centered so I am not worried about it.
Not saying Cyberiths design is bad. I can see its ALOT better for ducking and jumping.. but frankly I never want to jump in real life let alone on one of those things.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Yes eqzitara, i anderstand your worries. I wonder too about that. A bigger platform ring would be safer on the vitualizer. Maybe the final version will have (if there is a final product...). Those guys at Cyberith seems to have vanished in the wild. They did not drop a line since gamescom 2015.
Maybe [url=https://youtu.be/7uO8Z34f0xE?list=PLyTF7tLfoubFBt8hLAGw3iQiiHSN3drDO]Infinadeck ?[/url] guys ?
...once they've solve inertia, heavy weigth (225kg), and size of their prototype... :D
Yes eqzitara, i anderstand your worries. I wonder too about that. A bigger platform ring would be safer on the vitualizer. Maybe the final version will have (if there is a final product...). Those guys at Cyberith seems to have vanished in the wild. They did not drop a line since gamescom 2015.
I kind of worry about anyone who invests in any of these machines kickstarters. These require a whole factory and the weight of each unit is insane.
I really doubt any besides the Omni will see light of day and no one wants to compete with it.
Its got like $10,000,0000+ in investors already.
http://vrscout.com/news/samsung-entrim-4d-vr-motion-headphones/
Samsung is doing R&D on Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation headphones. Whether this can ever be safely brought to market is a good question, but that's the real solution for solving first person motion sickness issues. No one's gonna wanna run an actual marathon every time they play an adventure game/FPS (that doesn't have teleportation).
Samsung is doing R&D on Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation headphones. Whether this can ever be safely brought to market is a good question, but that's the real solution for solving first person motion sickness issues. No one's gonna wanna run an actual marathon every time they play an adventure game/FPS (that doesn't have teleportation).
[quote="Paul33993"]http://vrscout.com/news/samsung-entrim-4d-vr-motion-headphones/
No one's gonna wanna run an actual marathon every time they play an adventure game/FPS (that doesn't have teleportation). [/quote]
Don't speak for everyone. I would very happily walk around a game Environment for a few hours at a time. Obviously game pace needs to be much slower and realistic than current games, which would be impossible for anyone other than the S.A.S. or Delta Force to keep up with. For me, VR is all about movement, exerting energy and roaming fantasy landscapes. Sitting can be incorporated too (when driving, or sitting on a VR bench) but full on sit down affairs (outside of racing etc) would be too sedentary for me.
The headphones look really interesting though. They could help with feeling of movement, acceleration, taking a corner etc to make the VR experience even more believable. Very exciting.
Paul33993 said:http://vrscout.com/news/samsung-entrim-4d-vr-motion-headphones/
No one's gonna wanna run an actual marathon every time they play an adventure game/FPS (that doesn't have teleportation).
Don't speak for everyone. I would very happily walk around a game Environment for a few hours at a time. Obviously game pace needs to be much slower and realistic than current games, which would be impossible for anyone other than the S.A.S. or Delta Force to keep up with. For me, VR is all about movement, exerting energy and roaming fantasy landscapes. Sitting can be incorporated too (when driving, or sitting on a VR bench) but full on sit down affairs (outside of racing etc) would be too sedentary for me.
The headphones look really interesting though. They could help with feeling of movement, acceleration, taking a corner etc to make the VR experience even more believable. Very exciting.
/\
So you agree with me then. Most of us, even if we wanted to run 20 or 30 miles during our game session, wouldn't have the physical stamina to do so.
Feel like you kind of took the quote out of context a bit. Those devices, from my POV, are a solution to motion sickness from locomotion. And unless you have reasonably one to one movement, it's not going to perfectly solve the issue like you want. So I don't feel it's a realistic solution for regular adventure/FPS games.
I'm with you on the other points. To me I don't want to be sitting down unless it's a cockpit game (racing/flight/space sim). I also don't want to be using a controller. I want my hands tracked (which, honestly is what racing/flight games do with a wheel/HOTAS too).
I just don't see any games officially supporting any of those walking mechanisms. Plus, it's limiting in the fact it locks you into a stationary spot. Watching the best Vive videos, people have to lean around corners/duck down/etc and and those type of movements would be out.
So you agree with me then. Most of us, even if we wanted to run 20 or 30 miles during our game session, wouldn't have the physical stamina to do so.
Feel like you kind of took the quote out of context a bit. Those devices, from my POV, are a solution to motion sickness from locomotion. And unless you have reasonably one to one movement, it's not going to perfectly solve the issue like you want. So I don't feel it's a realistic solution for regular adventure/FPS games.
I'm with you on the other points. To me I don't want to be sitting down unless it's a cockpit game (racing/flight/space sim). I also don't want to be using a controller. I want my hands tracked (which, honestly is what racing/flight games do with a wheel/HOTAS too).
I just don't see any games officially supporting any of those walking mechanisms. Plus, it's limiting in the fact it locks you into a stationary spot. Watching the best Vive videos, people have to lean around corners/duck down/etc and and those type of movements would be out.
Average walking speed on a treadmill is 3 miles an hour.
4 miles an hour is a brisk walk.
I'd prefer a simulated Segway or Vespa for getting around an Open world that's anything bigger than a few miles square.
[img]http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/abramsv/R6Vbfe9HqEI/AAAAAAAAGGE/2fTLOguMwBk/s800/popvespaazz.jpg[/img]
or a simulated horse :)
[img]http://chushka.com/remote/!BtEbv6!!Wk~$(KGrHqYH-CIEvLH4UTt!BL6,PzUIOg~~_3.JPG[/img]
Well lets not forget how uncomforble wearing occulus/vive may become after an hour of running :) It has to have some ventilation and then it still will move around the head. Even clothes and boots must be proper for 10km+ runs, and here we are speaking about quite a heavy device on the head :)
So for running - going outside and running is enough of an attraction, and for those who is not doing that I don't believe that VR will make to do it. Probably its more of a wishful thinking kind of thing that VR will help to get fit while just playing games :)
Well lets not forget how uncomforble wearing occulus/vive may become after an hour of running :) It has to have some ventilation and then it still will move around the head. Even clothes and boots must be proper for 10km+ runs, and here we are speaking about quite a heavy device on the head :)
So for running - going outside and running is enough of an attraction, and for those who is not doing that I don't believe that VR will make to do it. Probably its more of a wishful thinking kind of thing that VR will help to get fit while just playing games :)
http://techreport.com/news/29859/unity-engine-adds-support-for-nvidia-vrworks-sdk
Since people were wondering where the SLI support was, Unity has finally announced it. As expected. Unreal has already announced support, just hasn't been incorporated into a build yet (I think).
The obvious standouts with Nvidia VR are VR SLI and multi-res shading.
Since people were wondering where the SLI support was, Unity has finally announced it. As expected. Unreal has already announced support, just hasn't been incorporated into a build yet (I think).
The obvious standouts with Nvidia VR are VR SLI and multi-res shading.
[quote="Paul33993"]http://techreport.com/news/29859/unity-engine-adds-support-for-nvidia-vrworks-sdk
Since people were wondering where the SLI support was, Unity has finally announced it. As expected. Unreal has already announced support, just hasn't been incorporated into a build yet (I think).
The obvious standouts with Nvidia VR are VR SLI and multi-res shading.[/quote]
Great news, also Crytek claims their [url=https://www.cryengine.com/vrfirst]VR First[/url] to support AMD Liquid VR SDK
Since people were wondering where the SLI support was, Unity has finally announced it. As expected. Unreal has already announced support, just hasn't been incorporated into a build yet (I think).
The obvious standouts with Nvidia VR are VR SLI and multi-res shading.
Great news, also Crytek claims their VR First to support AMD Liquid VR SDK
Ryzen 1700X 3.9GHz | Asrock X370 Taichi | 16GB G.Skill
GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 850W EVGA P2 | Win7x64
Asus VG278HR | Panasonic TX-58EX750B 4K Active 3D
I agree that the future of VR needs an input device like the omni or katwalk, so that we can walk forever in a single direction. This allows for epic massive games that room scale doesn't seem to permit in it's current state.
I also was thinking about getting an OMNI, but the gait is not normal. It's terrible. An orthopedist has stated that using such a device for any amount of time on a regular basis will be terrible for your hips, back, joints and feet. I am inclined to trust him as he runs an incredibly successful practice.
If there was something that allowed us to walk and run with a normal gait I would buy it in a heartbeat, as long as it was £1000 or under.
Anyway, the reason I came here is this. Is there any chance Nvidia 3D can be ported over to the Vive? It would be great to play 3D games on the rift as crosstalk would be finally eliminated. It would also mean my wife could play 3D games with me.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
Normal gait? Did you saw that Cyberith virtualizer has a flat platform ?
Helixmod fixes for 3Dvision / 3Dtvplay
My 3D stereo screenshots
Skyrim Natural Realizm - The 3Dvision Immersive ENB Hub page on Nexus
Skyrim Natural Realizm - The 3Dvision Immersive ENB Gallery
CPU: i7 @ 3.40
GhzRAM: 8Go DDR3
GPU(s): GTX980ti
Display(s): HTC Vive and OptomaHD33 projector with 3D-RF system (3DTVplay)
Result: Gorgious 3D gaming and VR experiences! :D
While I do see the concern, computer technology in it's current form is also not good for wrists, eyes, and all the other body parts you mentioned due to lack of physical exercise. Game consoles and PC's has induced sedentary lifestyles and let's not forget gluttony because of the abundance of foods we consume. At least VR can induce physical exercise. Every industry has an eye on the dollar and I suspect practices like your friend will pounce on the idea selling shoes, harnesses or accessories that will reduce the risk of the things you mentioned earlier. I play a lot of soccer and although my cardiovascular system is top notch, the rest of my body has taken a beating over the years and the only thing you can do to combat wear and tear, is muscle strengthening. I love playing soccer way too much and I have already forfeited the thoughts of what about my ankles, knees or any other physical risk. I have been playing for over 35 years and I am still going strong. Many sports are actually not good for the joints, ankles and back and often has a high risk for injury. The human body is quite resilient and if you take care of it and exercise, this is actually more of a benefit than a negative. Sitting in a chair for hours in front of a screen and not doing any exercise year after year is actually far worse than the other risks you mentioned. Everything is perception and I have no concern with any of these VR accessories. I'm sure that these full motion accessories for VR will get better in quality and deal with issues or concerns that health professionals mention.
VR with the full body motion will motivate people to get off their asses!
Stryker you are right, many things are bad for us, expecially when over done (watching a monitor, small movements of a mouse etc). But walking with a weird gait is not just one joint, it's your entire body, spine, hips knees, feet. Your feet move in a different way, and you weight is shifted. This Orthopedist deals with a lot of women suffering all kinds of issues, from the hips, feet spine and even neck, caused by high heels. It's not like football or other sports, where although you are putting high stress on your joints you are still moving naturally. With this machine, you are walking in a way you never would or could in real life. That's a kind of stress you were never designed to have.
Maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but as someone who has experienced excruciating amounts of leg pains, which I never figured out (doctors also) until I met him, caused by bad gait (my feet were spreading out in a weird way) I now pay heed to it. My issue was solved after a year of wearing inlays to walk with a normal step again.
So maybe it won't be so bad. But I would rather people know the potential risks, as at least then they can make a semi-educated choice. I personally will be waiting a little longer to see what comes out, and also to read a few reviews after people have used them intensively for a few months.
One thing I agree 100% with you though, VR with full body motion will get people of their arses! Hence why I would only get a Vive now. I personally want to be able to run around a LOTR environment with my wife, working up a sweat whilst swinging a staff around. Could be a great fun way to get a little exercise, especially during the winter months.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
Like what if your foot trips on outside of ring. Then your relying on the middle unit which is frankly supposed to move/ not stable
The virtuix kind of keeps you in centered so I am not worried about it.
Not saying Cyberiths design is bad. I can see its ALOT better for ducking and jumping.. but frankly I never want to jump in real life let alone on one of those things.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Maybe Infinadeck ? guys ?
...once they've solve inertia, heavy weigth (225kg), and size of their prototype... :D
Helixmod fixes for 3Dvision / 3Dtvplay
My 3D stereo screenshots
Skyrim Natural Realizm - The 3Dvision Immersive ENB Hub page on Nexus
Skyrim Natural Realizm - The 3Dvision Immersive ENB Gallery
CPU: i7 @ 3.40
GhzRAM: 8Go DDR3
GPU(s): GTX980ti
Display(s): HTC Vive and OptomaHD33 projector with 3D-RF system (3DTVplay)
Result: Gorgious 3D gaming and VR experiences! :D
I really doubt any besides the Omni will see light of day and no one wants to compete with it.
Its got like $10,000,0000+ in investors already.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Samsung is doing R&D on Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation headphones. Whether this can ever be safely brought to market is a good question, but that's the real solution for solving first person motion sickness issues. No one's gonna wanna run an actual marathon every time they play an adventure game/FPS (that doesn't have teleportation).
Don't speak for everyone. I would very happily walk around a game Environment for a few hours at a time. Obviously game pace needs to be much slower and realistic than current games, which would be impossible for anyone other than the S.A.S. or Delta Force to keep up with. For me, VR is all about movement, exerting energy and roaming fantasy landscapes. Sitting can be incorporated too (when driving, or sitting on a VR bench) but full on sit down affairs (outside of racing etc) would be too sedentary for me.
The headphones look really interesting though. They could help with feeling of movement, acceleration, taking a corner etc to make the VR experience even more believable. Very exciting.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
So you agree with me then. Most of us, even if we wanted to run 20 or 30 miles during our game session, wouldn't have the physical stamina to do so.
Feel like you kind of took the quote out of context a bit. Those devices, from my POV, are a solution to motion sickness from locomotion. And unless you have reasonably one to one movement, it's not going to perfectly solve the issue like you want. So I don't feel it's a realistic solution for regular adventure/FPS games.
I'm with you on the other points. To me I don't want to be sitting down unless it's a cockpit game (racing/flight/space sim). I also don't want to be using a controller. I want my hands tracked (which, honestly is what racing/flight games do with a wheel/HOTAS too).
I just don't see any games officially supporting any of those walking mechanisms. Plus, it's limiting in the fact it locks you into a stationary spot. Watching the best Vive videos, people have to lean around corners/duck down/etc and and those type of movements would be out.
4 miles an hour is a brisk walk.
I'd prefer a simulated Segway or Vespa for getting around an Open world that's anything bigger than a few miles square.
or a simulated horse :)
So for running - going outside and running is enough of an attraction, and for those who is not doing that I don't believe that VR will make to do it. Probably its more of a wishful thinking kind of thing that VR will help to get fit while just playing games :)
Since people were wondering where the SLI support was, Unity has finally announced it. As expected. Unreal has already announced support, just hasn't been incorporated into a build yet (I think).
The obvious standouts with Nvidia VR are VR SLI and multi-res shading.
Great news, also Crytek claims their VR First to support AMD Liquid VR SDK
Ryzen 1700X 3.9GHz | Asrock X370 Taichi | 16GB G.Skill
GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 850W EVGA P2 | Win7x64
Asus VG278HR | Panasonic TX-58EX750B 4K Active 3D