3D Vision CPU Bottelneck: Gathering Information thread.
22 / 22
[quote="RAGEdemon"]As many of us predicted, it looks like we'll be left to our own devices. I personally regret all the wasted effort from all of us, gathering the information and presenting it, many long emails, lengthy discussions etc, but all to null effect.
They have acknowledged the problem, and the fact that it affects all of us, but have decided it is more profitable for them to ignore us and not to fix it after all; relegating it to bottom priority. Admittedly, it's a fine business decision, but one which leaves a sour taste in the mouths of the affected consumer, especially as nVidia is making record high profits.
On a positive note, I loaded up Shadow of the Tomb Raider in DX12 SBS mode (nVidia 3DV doesn't work in DX12 mode), but I saw all my 8 cores, physical and virtual hovering at ~90% during gameplay. I was getting double the FPS in DX12 than I was in DX11.
I have never seen such amazingly high CPU usage in any game before.
Granted, this was with 3DV disabled, but perhaps when [b]properly optimised[/b] DX12/Vulcan games work consistently with 3DV going into the future, that there shall be our salvation... [/quote][img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/458/375/101.png[/img]
Man, this is such a huge bummer for all of us. I wonder how much work this would actually take. Clearly they have come to the conclusion that it wouldn't effect their bottom line, but it would be nice to have some good will to long time customers.
Thanks everybody for fighting for this.
RAGEdemon said:As many of us predicted, it looks like we'll be left to our own devices. I personally regret all the wasted effort from all of us, gathering the information and presenting it, many long emails, lengthy discussions etc, but all to null effect.
They have acknowledged the problem, and the fact that it affects all of us, but have decided it is more profitable for them to ignore us and not to fix it after all; relegating it to bottom priority. Admittedly, it's a fine business decision, but one which leaves a sour taste in the mouths of the affected consumer, especially as nVidia is making record high profits.
On a positive note, I loaded up Shadow of the Tomb Raider in DX12 SBS mode (nVidia 3DV doesn't work in DX12 mode), but I saw all my 8 cores, physical and virtual hovering at ~90% during gameplay. I was getting double the FPS in DX12 than I was in DX11.
I have never seen such amazingly high CPU usage in any game before.
Granted, this was with 3DV disabled, but perhaps when properly optimised DX12/Vulcan games work consistently with 3DV going into the future, that there shall be our salvation...
Man, this is such a huge bummer for all of us. I wonder how much work this would actually take. Clearly they have come to the conclusion that it wouldn't effect their bottom line, but it would be nice to have some good will to long time customers.
The ideal way I think would be to use would be to create a program like 3Dmigoto for dx12 more outputting in interlaced or side by side. Like dolphin does. Without relying on Nvidia driver. Idk if that will happen or even possible. That way the TVs, new TVs and vr headsets will all work with it. (I'm also not saying anything negative about 3Dmigoto, that is fantastic).
Also likely reason you were getting double FPS is because sbs only has to render one screen full of pixels instead of Two. (3dmigoto sbs throws away half of the image, Nixxes ports do not)
IE rise of the tomb raider and shadow, and deus ex mankind divided on sbs with 3D 4K TVs performance is similar to non 3D 4K because of sbs.
At 720p or 1080p interlacing was problematic but at 4K I don’t think it is. I much prefer the double performance at 4K whereas at 1080p interlaced it looked way too fuzzy.
The ideal way I think would be to use would be to create a program like 3Dmigoto for dx12 more outputting in interlaced or side by side. Like dolphin does. Without relying on Nvidia driver. Idk if that will happen or even possible. That way the TVs, new TVs and vr headsets will all work with it. (I'm also not saying anything negative about 3Dmigoto, that is fantastic).
Also likely reason you were getting double FPS is because sbs only has to render one screen full of pixels instead of Two. (3dmigoto sbs throws away half of the image, Nixxes ports do not)
IE rise of the tomb raider and shadow, and deus ex mankind divided on sbs with 3D 4K TVs performance is similar to non 3D 4K because of sbs.
At 720p or 1080p interlacing was problematic but at 4K I don’t think it is. I much prefer the double performance at 4K whereas at 1080p interlaced it looked way too fuzzy.
Nah mate, I was comparing DX12 native SBS to DX11 native SBS. SBS is actually not to do with the point I was trying to make...
The following is what I saw, and what has been well known and expected from DX12 for some time, simply because properly optimised DX12 code can take significantly better advantage of multi core setups (assuming the GPU remains < 90%, i.e. there are no GPU bottlenecks):
[img]https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/images/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-directx-performance-hub-640px.png[/img]
[img]https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2018/09/16123155412l.jpg[/img]
To be fair, I am not a fan of SBS / OU / Interlaced, simply because they cut the resolution in half. This is not acceptable to me.
My only point was that DX12 on its own (regardless of any native StereoScopic 3D support such as SBS, page flipping, frame packing, OU, interlaced, etc) ought to and absolutely does provide much better CPU utilisation than the DX versions before it, which is exactly what we wanted in the CPU bottleneck "fix" from nVidia.
How well this performance increase translates to gaming via nVidia's 3D Vision driver, however, yet remains to be seen. We might even be in a position where 3DV will give worse performance on DX12 than it does on DX9/10/11... :)
Nah mate, I was comparing DX12 native SBS to DX11 native SBS. SBS is actually not to do with the point I was trying to make...
The following is what I saw, and what has been well known and expected from DX12 for some time, simply because properly optimised DX12 code can take significantly better advantage of multi core setups (assuming the GPU remains < 90%, i.e. there are no GPU bottlenecks):
To be fair, I am not a fan of SBS / OU / Interlaced, simply because they cut the resolution in half. This is not acceptable to me.
My only point was that DX12 on its own (regardless of any native StereoScopic 3D support such as SBS, page flipping, frame packing, OU, interlaced, etc) ought to and absolutely does provide much better CPU utilisation than the DX versions before it, which is exactly what we wanted in the CPU bottleneck "fix" from nVidia.
How well this performance increase translates to gaming via nVidia's 3D Vision driver, however, yet remains to be seen. We might even be in a position where 3DV will give worse performance on DX12 than it does on DX9/10/11... :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
And your point is DX12 is better than DX11, and hopefully it magically solves nvidia's problem for them, even though it currently doesn't run in DX12 or Vulkan?
FFXV is DX11 and will max out all of the the 8 7700k threads. Like Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
3Dvision is the cause of the problem itself since the driver sucks, support is terrible, and limits itself to nvidia's ecosystem, and their bugfixes. 3D itself as Nixxes has shown in is not prohibitive. I would support (with $) modders move away from 3Dvision format for this reason in vulkan or DX12+.
And your point is DX12 is better than DX11, and hopefully it magically solves nvidia's problem for them, even though it currently doesn't run in DX12 or Vulkan?
FFXV is DX11 and will max out all of the the 8 7700k threads. Like Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
3Dvision is the cause of the problem itself since the driver sucks, support is terrible, and limits itself to nvidia's ecosystem, and their bugfixes. 3D itself as Nixxes has shown in is not prohibitive. I would support (with $) modders move away from 3Dvision format for this reason in vulkan or DX12+.
BugattiGreedia could probably solve the 3D Vision 3 Core bug in a single day, if not a few hours if they actually wanted to, I mean 50% improvement in RT in BF5 via driver side optimization? But no, that wont generate profit for them, and they know that 99% of 3D Vision users will just keep coming back and buying their product anyhow.
Riddle me this, what is the point of a 2080 Ti, Titan RTX, equivalent or better if youre GPU utilization is at 50% because of the 3 core bug?
At what point to do the retards at BugattiGreedia realize that a small, yet sizable portion of their consumer-base who are 3D Vision enthusiasts stop upgrading because there is no point due to the 3 core bug?
Is anyone from BugattiGreedia actively participating in this thread and / or are any of us actively communicating with them?
Please refer them to this post, I will not upgrade again from 1080 Ti until they fix the 3 core bug, there is no point. Right now 8700k @ 5.0 GHz+ 1080 Ti pair fairly well, but I'm still seeing the bug. 45 FPS in Batman: AK whilst flying over certain areas of the map with 70% GPU utilization at 2560x1440 etc.
Really upset with how this is not being addressed.
BugattiGreedia could probably solve the 3D Vision 3 Core bug in a single day, if not a few hours if they actually wanted to, I mean 50% improvement in RT in BF5 via driver side optimization? But no, that wont generate profit for them, and they know that 99% of 3D Vision users will just keep coming back and buying their product anyhow.
Riddle me this, what is the point of a 2080 Ti, Titan RTX, equivalent or better if youre GPU utilization is at 50% because of the 3 core bug?
At what point to do the retards at BugattiGreedia realize that a small, yet sizable portion of their consumer-base who are 3D Vision enthusiasts stop upgrading because there is no point due to the 3 core bug?
Is anyone from BugattiGreedia actively participating in this thread and / or are any of us actively communicating with them?
Please refer them to this post, I will not upgrade again from 1080 Ti until they fix the 3 core bug, there is no point. Right now 8700k @ 5.0 GHz+ 1080 Ti pair fairly well, but I'm still seeing the bug. 45 FPS in Batman: AK whilst flying over certain areas of the map with 70% GPU utilization at 2560x1440 etc.
Really upset with how this is not being addressed.
i7 8700k @ 5.1 GHz w/ EK Monoblock | GTX 1080 Ti FE + Full Nickel EK Block | EK SE 420 + EK PE 360 | 16GB G-Skill Trident Z @ 3200 MHz | Samsung 850 Evo | Corsair RM1000x | Asus ROG Swift PG278Q + Alienware AW3418DW | Win10 Pro 1703
If 3D Vision was more popular I'm sure we have a solution for 3 core bug, DX12 and vulkan but the fact is it's not probably only a few thousand users which it doesn't make sense to add new features this doesn't help us at all but it's business even if 3Dmigoto was adapted to work with DX12 3D Vision doesn't support it as limextree stated we need a total independence 3D system moving forward.
If 3D Vision was more popular I'm sure we have a solution for 3 core bug, DX12 and vulkan but the fact is it's not probably only a few thousand users which it doesn't make sense to add new features this doesn't help us at all but it's business even if 3Dmigoto was adapted to work with DX12 3D Vision doesn't support it as limextree stated we need a total independence 3D system moving forward.
Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55
Gents, check out this old thread from 2017:
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1025710/3d-vision/directx-12-games-can-they-ever-be-3d-/[/url]
Some DX12 games do work, and there are more DX12 games all the time. New next gen consoles will also all be DX12, further driving the need.
I personally don't believe DX12+ are dead ends - there are some people looking into it even now - Flugan recently bought up every DX12 game on the market for "Research" into 3DV usability.
So nVidia have given up on us for the most part. Does this have to mean that we give up on 3D Vision? I hope not... There are very smart people out there who might yet figure out how to make DX12 play nice with 3DV.
xXxStarManxXx, no one cares if we buy their cards "buddy". They are sold out every place - we are not the intended market, and we make no difference to their profits.
I do, however, appreciate people's anger and frustration only too well.
Some DX12 games do work, and there are more DX12 games all the time. New next gen consoles will also all be DX12, further driving the need.
I personally don't believe DX12+ are dead ends - there are some people looking into it even now - Flugan recently bought up every DX12 game on the market for "Research" into 3DV usability.
So nVidia have given up on us for the most part. Does this have to mean that we give up on 3D Vision? I hope not... There are very smart people out there who might yet figure out how to make DX12 play nice with 3DV.
xXxStarManxXx, no one cares if we buy their cards "buddy". They are sold out every place - we are not the intended market, and we make no difference to their profits.
I do, however, appreciate people's anger and frustration only too well.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I not going to argue but none of DX12 games that I tested worked with 3D Vision enabled period. Out of 10 to 12 DX12 games tested none ran when 3D Vision was enabled and if they did it was like a slide show.
The way I have got around is with a very expensive 2D to 3D converter which isn't even as good as CM mode.
So I really wouldn't put much hope into NVidia fixing 3D Vision for DX12 or Vulkan.
Also reshade has the same problem no DX12 or Vulkan support.
I not going to argue but none of DX12 games that I tested worked with 3D Vision enabled period. Out of 10 to 12 DX12 games tested none ran when 3D Vision was enabled and if they did it was like a slide show.
The way I have got around is with a very expensive 2D to 3D converter which isn't even as good as CM mode.
So I really wouldn't put much hope into NVidia fixing 3D Vision for DX12 or Vulkan.
Also reshade has the same problem no DX12 or Vulkan support.
Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55
I remeber someone once here talked about writing our own drivers. not impossible just shit load of work.
i wonder what does it come down after the is no new dx11 games.
Vr isnt good enough for majority 3d gamers in a years.
I remeber someone once here talked about writing our own drivers. not impossible just shit load of work.
i wonder what does it come down after the is no new dx11 games.
Vr isnt good enough for majority 3d gamers in a years.
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Man, this is such a huge bummer for all of us. I wonder how much work this would actually take. Clearly they have come to the conclusion that it wouldn't effect their bottom line, but it would be nice to have some good will to long time customers.
Thanks everybody for fighting for this.
Also likely reason you were getting double FPS is because sbs only has to render one screen full of pixels instead of Two. (3dmigoto sbs throws away half of the image, Nixxes ports do not)
IE rise of the tomb raider and shadow, and deus ex mankind divided on sbs with 3D 4K TVs performance is similar to non 3D 4K because of sbs.
At 720p or 1080p interlacing was problematic but at 4K I don’t think it is. I much prefer the double performance at 4K whereas at 1080p interlaced it looked way too fuzzy.
I'm ishiki, forum screwed up my name.
7700k @4.7 GHZ, 16GBDDR4@3466MHZ, 2080 Ti
The following is what I saw, and what has been well known and expected from DX12 for some time, simply because properly optimised DX12 code can take significantly better advantage of multi core setups (assuming the GPU remains < 90%, i.e. there are no GPU bottlenecks):
To be fair, I am not a fan of SBS / OU / Interlaced, simply because they cut the resolution in half. This is not acceptable to me.
My only point was that DX12 on its own (regardless of any native StereoScopic 3D support such as SBS, page flipping, frame packing, OU, interlaced, etc) ought to and absolutely does provide much better CPU utilisation than the DX versions before it, which is exactly what we wanted in the CPU bottleneck "fix" from nVidia.
How well this performance increase translates to gaming via nVidia's 3D Vision driver, however, yet remains to be seen. We might even be in a position where 3DV will give worse performance on DX12 than it does on DX9/10/11... :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55
FFXV is DX11 and will max out all of the the 8 7700k threads. Like Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
3Dvision is the cause of the problem itself since the driver sucks, support is terrible, and limits itself to nvidia's ecosystem, and their bugfixes. 3D itself as Nixxes has shown in is not prohibitive. I would support (with $) modders move away from 3Dvision format for this reason in vulkan or DX12+.
I'm ishiki, forum screwed up my name.
7700k @4.7 GHZ, 16GBDDR4@3466MHZ, 2080 Ti
Riddle me this, what is the point of a 2080 Ti, Titan RTX, equivalent or better if youre GPU utilization is at 50% because of the 3 core bug?
At what point to do the retards at BugattiGreedia realize that a small, yet sizable portion of their consumer-base who are 3D Vision enthusiasts stop upgrading because there is no point due to the 3 core bug?
Is anyone from BugattiGreedia actively participating in this thread and / or are any of us actively communicating with them?
Please refer them to this post, I will not upgrade again from 1080 Ti until they fix the 3 core bug, there is no point. Right now 8700k @ 5.0 GHz+ 1080 Ti pair fairly well, but I'm still seeing the bug. 45 FPS in Batman: AK whilst flying over certain areas of the map with 70% GPU utilization at 2560x1440 etc.
Really upset with how this is not being addressed.
i7 8700k @ 5.1 GHz w/ EK Monoblock | GTX 1080 Ti FE + Full Nickel EK Block | EK SE 420 + EK PE 360 | 16GB G-Skill Trident Z @ 3200 MHz | Samsung 850 Evo | Corsair RM1000x | Asus ROG Swift PG278Q + Alienware AW3418DW | Win10 Pro 1703
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/14520125/fs/11807761#
Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1025710/3d-vision/directx-12-games-can-they-ever-be-3d-/
Some DX12 games do work, and there are more DX12 games all the time. New next gen consoles will also all be DX12, further driving the need.
I personally don't believe DX12+ are dead ends - there are some people looking into it even now - Flugan recently bought up every DX12 game on the market for "Research" into 3DV usability.
So nVidia have given up on us for the most part. Does this have to mean that we give up on 3D Vision? I hope not... There are very smart people out there who might yet figure out how to make DX12 play nice with 3DV.
xXxStarManxXx, no one cares if we buy their cards "buddy". They are sold out every place - we are not the intended market, and we make no difference to their profits.
I do, however, appreciate people's anger and frustration only too well.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
The way I have got around is with a very expensive 2D to 3D converter which isn't even as good as CM mode.
So I really wouldn't put much hope into NVidia fixing 3D Vision for DX12 or Vulkan.
Also reshade has the same problem no DX12 or Vulkan support.
Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55
When it gets mainstream we might say goodbye to 3D. :((
Intel i7 8086K
Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti Aorus Extreme
DDR4 2x8gb 3200mhz Cl14
TV LG OLED65E6V
Windows 10 64bits
i wonder what does it come down after the is no new dx11 games.
Vr isnt good enough for majority 3d gamers in a years.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele