Looking at 3D vision 2
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What everyone says. I'll just add that 3D Vision seems to really enjoy SLI setups (3 card SLI is a no go currently last I heard though). My guess is each card takes care of one of the two angles, and that just smooths out the process. Even with a strong single GPU card (experience was from back when I only had my first of 2 GTX 580's) on a not too taxing game the frame rates feel kind of "jerky" for lack of a better explanation.
What everyone says.

I'll just add that 3D Vision seems to really enjoy SLI setups (3 card SLI is a no go currently last I heard though). My guess is each card takes care of one of the two angles, and that just smooths out the process.

Even with a strong single GPU card (experience was from back when I only had my first of 2 GTX 580's) on a not too taxing game the frame rates feel kind of "jerky" for lack of a better explanation.

#16
Posted 03/27/2013 06:52 PM   
[quote="Foulplay99"]regarding SLI with 570's, check out your PSU before you jump. The old 5XX series of cards have monsterous power requirements compared to the 6XX series. My own PSU (700 Watt Tagan modular) only just supports my 2 670's and I5 2500K, but there is no way in hell it would have supported 2x 580's because they would draw more Amps than the PSU can push. Just something to watch out for, as SLI can make a massive difference to 3D gaming and is well worth the money.[/quote] Somewhere along the way, the marketing people managed to convince us all that we need massive power supplies. This is one of those questions that is a pet peeve of mine. No offense intended, but people are buying way more power supply than they need. No one on this board is going to be running some generic POS power supply, and if you have a quality power supply, you don't even need 500W. [url]http://www.anandtech.com/show/2624[/url] For Mike's system, he only needs 500W, not the 750 he runs: [url]http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/extreme_power_supply_calculator_updated_include_core_i7_2700k_water_cooling_kits[/url] Here's a good calculator that provides accurate numbers: [url]http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp[/url] I run GTX580 in SLI, with an overclocked CPU to 3.8GHz. I also run a 750W PSU (PC Power and Cooling). In any case, most people would say OC CPU + Gtx580 SLI requires 1K, and that's just wrong. The calculator shows that I just barely need 750W if I'm running 90% TDP, and 90% load, with 20% capacitor aging. That is worst case scenario, that just doesn't happen.
Foulplay99 said:regarding SLI with 570's, check out your PSU before you jump. The old 5XX series of cards have monsterous power requirements compared to the 6XX series.

My own PSU (700 Watt Tagan modular) only just supports my 2 670's and I5 2500K, but there is no way in hell it would have supported 2x 580's because they would draw more Amps than the PSU can push.

Just something to watch out for, as SLI can make a massive difference to 3D gaming and is well worth the money.

Somewhere along the way, the marketing people managed to convince us all that we need massive power supplies.

This is one of those questions that is a pet peeve of mine. No offense intended, but people are buying way more power supply than they need.

No one on this board is going to be running some generic POS power supply, and if you have a quality power supply, you don't even need 500W.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2624


For Mike's system, he only needs 500W, not the 750 he runs:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/extreme_power_supply_calculator_updated_include_core_i7_2700k_water_cooling_kits


Here's a good calculator that provides accurate numbers:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp


I run GTX580 in SLI, with an overclocked CPU to 3.8GHz. I also run a 750W PSU (PC Power and Cooling). In any case, most people would say OC CPU + Gtx580 SLI requires 1K, and that's just wrong. The calculator shows that I just barely need 750W if I'm running 90% TDP, and 90% load, with 20% capacitor aging. That is worst case scenario, that just doesn't happen.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#17
Posted 03/28/2013 10:20 AM   
@bo3b That's interesting, I'll look at that article. I do agree with you, though I bought my PSU to future proof myself from having to get a new one if I upgraded again - I will say I previously had a 450W PSU and that was *not* enough for 2x275's let alone 2x570's, so I gave myself some headroom. One really important factor with PSU's is *quality* - a good 500W PSU will be better than a crap 750W which can't keep steady voltages on the rails.
@bo3b That's interesting, I'll look at that article. I do agree with you, though I bought my PSU to future proof myself from having to get a new one if I upgraded again - I will say I previously had a 450W PSU and that was *not* enough for 2x275's let alone 2x570's, so I gave myself some headroom. One really important factor with PSU's is *quality* - a good 500W PSU will be better than a crap 750W which can't keep steady voltages on the rails.

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#18
Posted 03/28/2013 03:32 PM   
If you can afford a power supply that goes over what you need though, go for it. It's a nice future proofing investment. If you buy an 800 watt power supply, and your system only pulls 650, then you're only eating up 650 watts, not 800. So it doesn't hurt your electric bill to have something higher, it just up's the "ceiling" of what you're capable of pulling. edit - yes, getting a good *quality* power supply is essential in my book.
If you can afford a power supply that goes over what you need though, go for it. It's a nice future proofing investment.

If you buy an 800 watt power supply, and your system only pulls 650, then you're only eating up 650 watts, not 800. So it doesn't hurt your electric bill to have something higher, it just up's the "ceiling" of what you're capable of pulling.

edit - yes, getting a good *quality* power supply is essential in my book.

#19
Posted 03/28/2013 04:21 PM   
I just used that tool that bo3b referenced above and when I put everything in (including hard drives, fans and what not) it tells me my minimum PSU should be 738W with a recommendation of 788W, assuming 90% load and 25% capacitor aging. If I remove everything but my CPU and graphics card from the calculation it still says 634W min, and 684W recommended, so I am not sure where bo3b got 500W from? Either way, it's a good little tool and worth bookmarking, and the OP should consider using it before committing to a graphics card upgrade, just in case.
I just used that tool that bo3b referenced above and when I put everything in (including hard drives, fans and what not) it tells me my minimum PSU should be 738W with a recommendation of 788W, assuming 90% load and 25% capacitor aging. If I remove everything but my CPU and graphics card from the calculation it still says 634W min, and 684W recommended, so I am not sure where bo3b got 500W from? Either way, it's a good little tool and worth bookmarking, and the OP should consider using it before committing to a graphics card upgrade, just in case.

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#20
Posted 03/28/2013 06:10 PM   
The PSU is the most important component in your pc. Without a good psu, no gaming pc. One just CANNOT skimp on it. I could have built my rig with a lower wattage psu, but efficiency decreases the more the psu has to max out. Corsair makes super strong psu's (72 amps on single rail!), and a 950w, has turned out to be just perfect for my system. I'll never come close to maxing it out, but it's lifespan will be as long as possible since it only runs half of what it's capable of. It should still be good for my next build!
The PSU is the most important component in your pc. Without a good psu, no gaming pc. One just CANNOT skimp on it. I could have built my rig with a lower wattage psu, but efficiency decreases the more the psu has to max out. Corsair makes super strong psu's (72 amps on single rail!), and a 950w, has turned out to be just perfect for my system. I'll never come close to maxing it out, but it's lifespan will be as long as possible since it only runs half of what it's capable of. It should still be good for my next build!

AsRock X58 Extreme6 mobo
Intel Core-i7 950 @ 4ghz
12gb Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 780 3gb
Corsair TX 950w PSU
NZXT Phantom Red/Black Case
3d Vision 1 w/ Samsung 2233rz Monitor
3d Vision 2 w/ ASUS VG278HE Monitor

#21
Posted 03/28/2013 07:08 PM   
[quote="AcidBong"]The PSU is the most important component in your pc. Without a good psu, no gaming pc. One just CANNOT skimp on it. I could have built my rig with a lower wattage psu, but efficiency decreases the more the psu has to max out. Corsair makes super strong psu's (72 amps on single rail!), and a 950w, has turned out to be just perfect for my system. I'll never come close to maxing it out, but it's lifespan will be as long as possible since it only runs half of what it's capable of. It should still be good for my next build![/quote] I agree. Do I need a 1250 watt power supply? No. But it's also only the second power supply I've purchased in the last eight years.
AcidBong said:The PSU is the most important component in your pc. Without a good psu, no gaming pc. One just CANNOT skimp on it. I could have built my rig with a lower wattage psu, but efficiency decreases the more the psu has to max out. Corsair makes super strong psu's (72 amps on single rail!), and a 950w, has turned out to be just perfect for my system. I'll never come close to maxing it out, but it's lifespan will be as long as possible since it only runs half of what it's capable of. It should still be good for my next build!


I agree. Do I need a 1250 watt power supply? No. But it's also only the second power supply I've purchased in the last eight years.

|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:MSI 1080GTX "Duke"
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64

#22
Posted 03/28/2013 10:48 PM   
Pull the trigger dude. 3D gaming is the nuts, and your gpu is pretty good. Many games will run in 3D very smooth even if you have to turn some of the candy down. It will still look 10x better then 2D. If you ever want to upgrade, don't forget many people will pay good money for your card as an sli purchase. As for monitor, 3D will beat any 2D experience. But from what i have heard TN will be a big step down in 2D perf (although i haven't looked closely at IPS so i cant say myself)
Pull the trigger dude. 3D gaming is the nuts, and your gpu is pretty good. Many games will run in 3D very smooth even if you have to turn some of the candy down. It will still look 10x better then 2D. If you ever want to upgrade, don't forget many people will pay good money for your card as an sli purchase.

As for monitor, 3D will beat any 2D experience. But from what i have heard TN will be a big step down in 2D perf (although i haven't looked closely at IPS so i cant say myself)

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#23
Posted 03/28/2013 10:58 PM   
[quote="mike_ar69"]I just used that tool that bo3b referenced above and when I put everything in (including hard drives, fans and what not) it tells me my minimum PSU should be 738W with a recommendation of 788W, assuming 90% load and 25% capacitor aging. If I remove everything but my CPU and graphics card from the calculation it still says 634W min, and 684W recommended, so I am not sure where bo3b got 500W from? Either way, it's a good little tool and worth bookmarking, and the OP should consider using it before committing to a graphics card upgrade, just in case.[/quote] Sorry about that, didn't notice that you are running SLI. The MaxPC article is a similar machine to yours, sans SLI, and pulled 550W. [quote="Drayth"]If you can afford a power supply that goes over what you need though, go for it. It's a nice future proofing investment. If you buy an 800 watt power supply, and your system only pulls 650, then you're only eating up 650 watts, not 800. So it doesn't hurt your electric bill to have something higher, it just up's the "ceiling" of what you're capable of pulling. edit - yes, getting a good *quality* power supply is essential in my book.[/quote] Except that you will never pull 650 in any usual gaming situations. When do your GPUs run at 100%? There isn't a single game I've played where it runs even 80% usage consistently. The reason this is important, is because if you overspec by too far, you get out of the efficiency zone for the PSU. It's not a giant deal, but why waste money on both a PSU and electricity that is just for headroom that you will never need? Look at recent generation GPUs. They went [i]down [/i]in power consumption, making that headroom even less valuable. If you run that sizing tool, and put in your actual expected usage parameters, like a 50% duty cycle for the GPU, no aging for a 1 year old PSU, you will see what you actually use. [s]Or take a look at the Anand article where they measure power consumption directly.[/s] (Using their test system, the tool provides 554W as the guideline, very close to Anand's measured 544W.) In my 750W case: 90% TDP for CPU is reasonable, games often keep CPU running hard. From benchmarking, my GTX580 in SLI rarely sustain even 50% usage on each. Thus setting System Load to 60%, it gives me a recommended 424W. Remember, this is [i]normal [/i]load, not [i]worst case[/i] load. For top efficiency, it should be 80% of peak, which would suggest a 550W supply would actually be closer to ideal for me. Also remember, that rating on good PSUs is [i]sustained[/i]. The PC P&C can sustain 750W indefinitely. It's definitely overkill for my machine for any normal use. When I run Furmark, and everything starts buzzing, it's not a bad choice.
mike_ar69 said:I just used that tool that bo3b referenced above and when I put everything in (including hard drives, fans and what not) it tells me my minimum PSU should be 738W with a recommendation of 788W, assuming 90% load and 25% capacitor aging. If I remove everything but my CPU and graphics card from the calculation it still says 634W min, and 684W recommended, so I am not sure where bo3b got 500W from? Either way, it's a good little tool and worth bookmarking, and the OP should consider using it before committing to a graphics card upgrade, just in case.

Sorry about that, didn't notice that you are running SLI. The MaxPC article is a similar machine to yours, sans SLI, and pulled 550W.

Drayth said:If you can afford a power supply that goes over what you need though, go for it. It's a nice future proofing investment.

If you buy an 800 watt power supply, and your system only pulls 650, then you're only eating up 650 watts, not 800. So it doesn't hurt your electric bill to have something higher, it just up's the "ceiling" of what you're capable of pulling.

edit - yes, getting a good *quality* power supply is essential in my book.

Except that you will never pull 650 in any usual gaming situations. When do your GPUs run at 100%? There isn't a single game I've played where it runs even 80% usage consistently.

The reason this is important, is because if you overspec by too far, you get out of the efficiency zone for the PSU. It's not a giant deal, but why waste money on both a PSU and electricity that is just for headroom that you will never need?

Look at recent generation GPUs. They went down in power consumption, making that headroom even less valuable.

If you run that sizing tool, and put in your actual expected usage parameters, like a 50% duty cycle for the GPU, no aging for a 1 year old PSU, you will see what you actually use. Or take a look at the Anand article where they measure power consumption directly. (Using their test system, the tool provides 554W as the guideline, very close to Anand's measured 544W.)

In my 750W case:
90% TDP for CPU is reasonable, games often keep CPU running hard.
From benchmarking, my GTX580 in SLI rarely sustain even 50% usage on each.
Thus setting System Load to 60%, it gives me a recommended 424W.
Remember, this is normal load, not worst case load.
For top efficiency, it should be 80% of peak, which would suggest a 550W supply would actually be closer to ideal for me.

Also remember, that rating on good PSUs is sustained. The PC P&C can sustain 750W indefinitely. It's definitely overkill for my machine for any normal use. When I run Furmark, and everything starts buzzing, it's not a bad choice.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#24
Posted 03/29/2013 12:52 AM   
Just got it today and wow. Just played World of Warcraft for 5 hours straight and it was amazing. I haven't had any issues with my graphics card yet.
Just got it today and wow. Just played World of Warcraft for 5 hours straight and it was amazing. I haven't had any issues with my graphics card yet.

#25
Posted 03/29/2013 01:51 AM   
[quote="segfault122"]Just got it today and wow. Just played World of Warcraft for 5 hours straight and it was amazing. I haven't had any issues with my graphics card yet. [/quote] Awesome! Welcome to the world of true 3d! It's better than you thought huh? Don't forget to enable convergence keyboard shortcuts in NVidia control panel. It's very useful in games that are low in convergence by default, and can really make a game come to life. You should try old games you love and see how the details pop!! But, after experiencing 3d vision... what do you think about all the people who bash it without trying it? ;) Kind of annoying...
segfault122 said:Just got it today and wow. Just played World of Warcraft for 5 hours straight and it was amazing. I haven't had any issues with my graphics card yet.


Awesome! Welcome to the world of true 3d! It's better than you thought huh? Don't forget to enable convergence keyboard shortcuts in NVidia control panel. It's very useful in games that are low in convergence by default, and can really make a game come to life. You should try old games you love and see how the details pop!!

But, after experiencing 3d vision... what do you think about all the people who bash it without trying it? ;) Kind of annoying...

AsRock X58 Extreme6 mobo
Intel Core-i7 950 @ 4ghz
12gb Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 780 3gb
Corsair TX 950w PSU
NZXT Phantom Red/Black Case
3d Vision 1 w/ Samsung 2233rz Monitor
3d Vision 2 w/ ASUS VG278HE Monitor

#26
Posted 03/29/2013 06:30 AM   
Demo your rig to friends, spread the stereoscopic infection. Yah, it's amazing how WoW's ho hum graphics go from boring to pleasing. Check out https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/467750/?comment=3325488
Demo your rig to friends, spread the stereoscopic infection.

Yah, it's amazing how WoW's ho hum graphics go from boring to pleasing.

Check out https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/467750/?comment=3325488

#27
Posted 03/29/2013 04:29 PM   
Welcome to the best thing happen to gaming ever man and may the force be with you, spread the word so more can see the lovely world that 3d on the Pc is :) I wont ever go back to 2d gaming myself, feels totaly uninteressting, flat, lifeless e.c I would take graphics like today with 3d then say perfect nextgen gaming like CGI without 3d annyday!
Welcome to the best thing happen to gaming ever man and may the force be with you, spread the word so more can see the lovely world that 3d on the Pc is :)

I wont ever go back to 2d gaming myself, feels totaly uninteressting, flat, lifeless e.c

I would take graphics like today with 3d then say perfect nextgen gaming like CGI without 3d annyday!

#28
Posted 03/29/2013 07:13 PM   
[quote="PerfectPixel"]Welcome to the best thing happen to gaming ever man and may the force be with you, spread the word so more can see the lovely world that 3d on the Pc is :) I wont ever go back to 2d gaming myself, feels totaly unintteressting, flat, lifeless e.c I would take graphics like today with 3d then say perfect nextgen gaming like CGI without 3d annyday! [/quote] I have said the same thing and stick by it. Graphics today are good enough that photo realism in 2D would add very little to me in terms of immersion. I would take todays graphics and 3D and VR over even photo realistic games with a great physics engine. I want to walk in the environment I'm playing in.
PerfectPixel said:Welcome to the best thing happen to gaming ever man and may the force be with you, spread the word so more can see the lovely world that 3d on the Pc is :)

I wont ever go back to 2d gaming myself, feels totaly unintteressting, flat, lifeless e.c

I would take graphics like today with 3d then say perfect nextgen gaming like CGI without 3d annyday!


I have said the same thing and stick by it. Graphics today are good enough that photo realism in 2D would add very little to me in terms of immersion. I would take todays graphics and 3D and VR over even photo realistic games with a great physics engine. I want to walk in the environment I'm playing in.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#29
Posted 03/29/2013 07:17 PM   
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