Rhetoric makes me laugh more musings from the Fanboi village
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I can't help but laugh at the ATI Fanboi village I was a proud member of until recently. Now that I'm in the green camp, I have to just stop and compare that crowd to the Tea-Party folks.
Here, the "Senior Editor of Advanced Marketing at AMD" trying to subtly pooh-pooh 3D Vision just before Big Red started working on THEIR version (which looks to be really, really B-list).
All the usual rhetoric is there: Eye strain, Glasses look dorky and you will lose your girlfriend for wearing them, Expensive (if you don't think of what you blew on a Graphic Card), Not Ready for Prime time, wasn't impressed...
Blah, blah, blah.
From the responses though, it appears Vision is gathering alot more supporters besides us on the 3D forums now.
I can't help but laugh at the ATI Fanboi village I was a proud member of until recently. Now that I'm in the green camp, I have to just stop and compare that crowd to the Tea-Party folks.
Here, the "Senior Editor of Advanced Marketing at AMD" trying to subtly pooh-pooh 3D Vision just before Big Red started working on THEIR version (which looks to be really, really B-list).
All the usual rhetoric is there: Eye strain, Glasses look dorky and you will lose your girlfriend for wearing them, Expensive (if you don't think of what you blew on a Graphic Card), Not Ready for Prime time, wasn't impressed...
Blah, blah, blah.
From the responses though, it appears Vision is gathering alot more supporters besides us on the 3D forums now.
It takes a Village to raise a Child, but only 1 Idiot to raze the Village.
Yeah more of the same rabble rousing from AMD/ATI … it was just a week or two they publicly stated that Developers don’t want to use PhysX but nVidia bribes them to. nVidia then public responded saying it was an outright lie, they offer technical assistance with development but don’t pay devs to use it.
It’s just business. I honestly don’t listen to a whole lot that AMD/ATI or nVidia tell the media directly. I prefer to rely on third party reviews and my own evaluation of the playing field … which consistently brings me back to the green team.
Yeah more of the same rabble rousing from AMD/ATI … it was just a week or two they publicly stated that Developers don’t want to use PhysX but nVidia bribes them to. nVidia then public responded saying it was an outright lie, they offer technical assistance with development but don’t pay devs to use it.
It’s just business. I honestly don’t listen to a whole lot that AMD/ATI or nVidia tell the media directly. I prefer to rely on third party reviews and my own evaluation of the playing field … which consistently brings me back to the green team.
Well I love my 3D vision. I enjoy it on my 73" Mitsubishi DLP everyday and the people I show it off too are always stunned.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.
Well I love my 3D vision. I enjoy it on my 73" Mitsubishi DLP everyday and the people I show it off too are always stunned.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.
Retracting comments I made in relation to politics. They weren’t inflammatory, but politics have no place here imo and could too easily lead to a needless argument/flamefest.
Retracting comments I made in relation to politics. They weren’t inflammatory, but politics have no place here imo and could too easily lead to a needless argument/flamefest.
Uh i just checked the AMD marketing guy blog post and I pretty much read the opposite of what you say.
From what I understand he says he expected the tech to give headaches but was surprised he didn't get any, then he says he expected 3D to radically change gameplay but from his short test, it appeared it wasn't the case. And then he says he loved the 3D effect.
Did we read the same article ?
Oh and by the way, given the monitor, system requirements and pricing, 3D vision isn't ready for prime time just yet, unfortunately that is true : you still need to be a 3D nerd to play in 3D.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are all nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)
Uh i just checked the AMD marketing guy blog post and I pretty much read the opposite of what you say.
From what I understand he says he expected the tech to give headaches but was surprised he didn't get any, then he says he expected 3D to radically change gameplay but from his short test, it appeared it wasn't the case. And then he says he loved the 3D effect.
Did we read the same article ?
Oh and by the way, given the monitor, system requirements and pricing, 3D vision isn't ready for prime time just yet, unfortunately that is true : you still need to be a 3D nerd to play in 3D.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are all nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1022052' date='Mar 18 2010, 09:50 AM']Oh and by the way, given the monitor, system requirements and pricing, 3D vision isn't ready for prime time just yet, unfortunately that is true : you still need to be a 3D nerd to play in 3D.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)[/quote]
Being that 3d DLPs are very competitively priced and that 120hz LCDs can be had for $250 and less (new), I seriously doubt the investment in glasses is an insurmountable obstacle for the average gamer. A gamer has to replace his displays eventually anyway, and with as cheap as the 3d displays are now, there is no reason an intelligent gamer with any interest whatsoever in gaming experience wouldn't just get a 3d ready display. The glasses are about the cost of a mid range video card and will last a hell of lot longer without becoming obsolete. I reject your statements.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1022052' date='Mar 18 2010, 09:50 AM']Oh and by the way, given the monitor, system requirements and pricing, 3D vision isn't ready for prime time just yet, unfortunately that is true : you still need to be a 3D nerd to play in 3D.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)
Being that 3d DLPs are very competitively priced and that 120hz LCDs can be had for $250 and less (new), I seriously doubt the investment in glasses is an insurmountable obstacle for the average gamer. A gamer has to replace his displays eventually anyway, and with as cheap as the 3d displays are now, there is no reason an intelligent gamer with any interest whatsoever in gaming experience wouldn't just get a 3d ready display. The glasses are about the cost of a mid range video card and will last a hell of lot longer without becoming obsolete. I reject your statements.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
I have no affiliation or loyalty to any one GFX card manufacturer.
I used to be a big Voodoo fan back in the day and had the original SLI with be Voodoo 2’s.
However I think this ATI guy is talking out of his ar$e and what’s more, he feck’in knows it.
3D is the future, not like the 1st incarnation a few years ago, Its here to stay.
One only has to look at the Japanese (and lets not forget the Korean) manufactures scrabbling over themselves to get to market with the 3D TV’s.(Strangely Philips who are my favourite TV manufacture (after B&O) aren’t yet dipping their toe in the 3D waters) for Phillips see ATI !!!!))
Millions nay, Billions of $, £, and € (don’t have a Yen character on my keyboard) is now being thrown at 3D from Movie studios, game developers to consumer electronics manufactures.
So for him to say;
[b][i]"I do still feel that this technology (while exhibited all over CES09) is still not ready for primetime, but I want to know your opinions too.Is this 3D Gaming technology ready for the consumers living room and does it have enough wind in its sails to be successful in a down economy? I for one don’t think so, but you be the judge. What are your thoughts?â€[/i][/b]
Is a load of bull and he damn well knows it….if he does believe it then he is deluded and needs to take his head out of his back side.
The truth is ATI have been for some reason worryingly slow to market.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.
They need to be carful as they might be so far behind that they aren’t able to claw back the market share they are about to lose.
Once you’ve played a game in 3D, you’ll never go back.
I have no affiliation or loyalty to any one GFX card manufacturer.
I used to be a big Voodoo fan back in the day and had the original SLI with be Voodoo 2’s.
However I think this ATI guy is talking out of his ar$e and what’s more, he feck’in knows it.
3D is the future, not like the 1st incarnation a few years ago, Its here to stay.
One only has to look at the Japanese (and lets not forget the Korean) manufactures scrabbling over themselves to get to market with the 3D TV’s.(Strangely Philips who are my favourite TV manufacture (after B&O) aren’t yet dipping their toe in the 3D waters) for Phillips see ATI !!!!))
Millions nay, Billions of $, £, and € (don’t have a Yen character on my keyboard) is now being thrown at 3D from Movie studios, game developers to consumer electronics manufactures.
So for him to say;
"I do still feel that this technology (while exhibited all over CES09) is still not ready for primetime, but I want to know your opinions too.Is this 3D Gaming technology ready for the consumers living room and does it have enough wind in its sails to be successful in a down economy? I for one don’t think so, but you be the judge. What are your thoughts?â€
Is a load of bull and he damn well knows it….if he does believe it then he is deluded and needs to take his head out of his back side.
The truth is ATI have been for some reason worryingly slow to market.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.
They need to be carful as they might be so far behind that they aren’t able to claw back the market share they are about to lose.
Once you’ve played a game in 3D, you’ll never go back.
In my opinion, your idea of the "average gamer" is seriously outdated. What you are describing is the hardcore gamer market, it's only a fraction of the actual gaming market.
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.
In my opinion, your idea of the "average gamer" is seriously outdated. What you are describing is the hardcore gamer market, it's only a fraction of the actual gaming market.
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote name='MistaP' post='1022047' date='Mar 18 2010, 12:46 PM']Your average chuckle head on the internet doesn't know anything about the Tea Party other than they see the name in headlines on CNN or whatever in relation to protests and assume they are nutjobs.[/quote]
[quote name='MistaP' post='1022047' date='Mar 18 2010, 12:46 PM']Your average chuckle head on the internet doesn't know anything about the Tea Party other than they see the name in headlines on CNN or whatever in relation to protests and assume they are nutjobs.
[quote name='pele01' post='1022070' date='Mar 18 2010, 01:11 PM']The truth is ATI have been for some reason worryingly slow to market.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.[/quote]
I thought that, too, until recently, but now I think they're just taking the tactic of letting the big TV manufacturers do the heavy lifting to get 3d to market. As we're already seeing, the 3d TVs coming out aren't compatible with nVidia's solution, anyway, so even nVidia is releasing software that will let the TVs drive the 3d conversion process. I assume ATI will follow suit, the only difference is they never put money/effort into developing or marketing their own version of "3d Vision". Whether that was a wise move or not is up for debate.
But in any case, that AMD blogger is indeed talking out of his backside and he knows it.
[quote name='pele01' post='1022070' date='Mar 18 2010, 01:11 PM']The truth is ATI have been for some reason worryingly slow to market.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.
I thought that, too, until recently, but now I think they're just taking the tactic of letting the big TV manufacturers do the heavy lifting to get 3d to market. As we're already seeing, the 3d TVs coming out aren't compatible with nVidia's solution, anyway, so even nVidia is releasing software that will let the TVs drive the 3d conversion process. I assume ATI will follow suit, the only difference is they never put money/effort into developing or marketing their own version of "3d Vision". Whether that was a wise move or not is up for debate.
But in any case, that AMD blogger is indeed talking out of his backside and he knows it.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1022077' date='Mar 18 2010, 05:16 PM']In my opinion, your idea of the "average gamer" is seriously outdated. What you are describing is the hardcore gamer market, it's only a fraction of the actual gaming market.
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.[/quote]
Very very true there, most of my "average gamer" freinds dont want to constantly spend money and dont like to spend to much money on a part that will become outdated and almost worthless in 2 years time.
Although i'd agrue most of my dedicated pc mates have just gone to console gameing cos its a lot more affordable and acsessable
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='1022077' date='Mar 18 2010, 05:16 PM']In my opinion, your idea of the "average gamer" is seriously outdated. What you are describing is the hardcore gamer market, it's only a fraction of the actual gaming market.
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.
Very very true there, most of my "average gamer" freinds dont want to constantly spend money and dont like to spend to much money on a part that will become outdated and almost worthless in 2 years time.
Although i'd agrue most of my dedicated pc mates have just gone to console gameing cos its a lot more affordable and acsessable
[rambling missive]
There are ostensibly enough gamers that buy decent PC hardware to make the developers still develop for cutting edge technology. Should they stop? Obviously not, since it is the new experiences that drive the market forward. It is like 3d stereo. At first with this new 3d vision tech, one had to drop at least $600 to have it (yeah there was already cheaper tech, however, let me ignore that for the sake of argument), and now it is down to $450 only a bit later, and that is if one is only getting a 120hz monitor for 3d, since they have other advantages. I wouldn't say that this tech is really all that out of reach anymore. It is certainly within the reach of anyone that could afford the new dx11 tech. 3d stereo doesn't immediately need to go to the Wii stage of adoption and be accessible to the "Average" person, including grandma and grandpa, for it to be considered widely adopted. It comes down to a person being educated enough to know that they can purchase 3d capable equipment for a very comparable price if they are buying new equipment anyway, and as time goes on, it will be difficult to buy a display that isn't capable of 3d in one way or another. Besides that, we are completely ignoring the myriad CRT monitors that are plenty capable of existing as a stop gap for a consumer to enjoy 3d with until such time as they are upgrading anyway.
How many people really have "gaming" PCs that are capable of playing more than casual games? Probably not very many in the grand scheme of gaming, however, PC gaming is still considered a large market. 3d stereo doesn't need to be in every single household to be successful anymore than a powerful pc needs to be in every household. However, we are really on the cusp of a 3d revolution. nV is behind it, ATi is getting on board finally, Sony is on board (with the PS3 games in tow no less) and many movie makers and TV manufacturers.
It is going to get even cheaper as it gets more ingrained in the mass consciousness. Do people just point at every new technological experience and crap all over because it isn't immediately accessible to everyone on earth? Or perhaps many simply do not like the idea of wanting something new that they do not have, as it creates a situation where they are missing something.
Well, I will tell anyone whom is reading this thread right now. If you are not gaming in 3d, or cannot game in 3d, YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING GREAT!
There... are you over your initial annoyance? Well, don't worry about it too much. A good game is a good game, but a good game in 3d can be absolutely mind blowing. So, the next time you are thinking about a new display, think about a 3d compatible one... it won't cost much more (if anything more) and it will let you experience 3d stereo gaming when you can afford it.
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.
There are ostensibly enough gamers that buy decent PC hardware to make the developers still develop for cutting edge technology. Should they stop? Obviously not, since it is the new experiences that drive the market forward. It is like 3d stereo. At first with this new 3d vision tech, one had to drop at least $600 to have it (yeah there was already cheaper tech, however, let me ignore that for the sake of argument), and now it is down to $450 only a bit later, and that is if one is only getting a 120hz monitor for 3d, since they have other advantages. I wouldn't say that this tech is really all that out of reach anymore. It is certainly within the reach of anyone that could afford the new dx11 tech. 3d stereo doesn't immediately need to go to the Wii stage of adoption and be accessible to the "Average" person, including grandma and grandpa, for it to be considered widely adopted. It comes down to a person being educated enough to know that they can purchase 3d capable equipment for a very comparable price if they are buying new equipment anyway, and as time goes on, it will be difficult to buy a display that isn't capable of 3d in one way or another. Besides that, we are completely ignoring the myriad CRT monitors that are plenty capable of existing as a stop gap for a consumer to enjoy 3d with until such time as they are upgrading anyway.
How many people really have "gaming" PCs that are capable of playing more than casual games? Probably not very many in the grand scheme of gaming, however, PC gaming is still considered a large market. 3d stereo doesn't need to be in every single household to be successful anymore than a powerful pc needs to be in every household. However, we are really on the cusp of a 3d revolution. nV is behind it, ATi is getting on board finally, Sony is on board (with the PS3 games in tow no less) and many movie makers and TV manufacturers.
It is going to get even cheaper as it gets more ingrained in the mass consciousness. Do people just point at every new technological experience and crap all over because it isn't immediately accessible to everyone on earth? Or perhaps many simply do not like the idea of wanting something new that they do not have, as it creates a situation where they are missing something.
Well, I will tell anyone whom is reading this thread right now. If you are not gaming in 3d, or cannot game in 3d, YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING GREAT!
There... are you over your initial annoyance? Well, don't worry about it too much. A good game is a good game, but a good game in 3d can be absolutely mind blowing. So, the next time you are thinking about a new display, think about a 3d compatible one... it won't cost much more (if anything more) and it will let you experience 3d stereo gaming when you can afford it.
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.
[/rambling missive]
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.[/quote]
That was a wonderfully articulate outburst! 'Here Here!' to your post my friend. It feels good to be riding the bleeding edge.
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.
That was a wonderfully articulate outburst! 'Here Here!' to your post my friend. It feels good to be riding the bleeding edge.
Andy
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
[quote name='Chazerman' post='1022031' date='Mar 18 2010, 08:15 AM']Well I love my 3D vision. I enjoy it on my 73" Mitsubishi DLP everyday and the people I show it off too are always stunned.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.[/quote]
its funny- all the tea party folks i know are white racist bigots, who watch too much fox news and believe everything that the right wing/ or religious propaganda machine churns out- all the while complaining about socialism while collecting their socialist unemployment checks and enjoying their socialist medicare, roads, police, fire dept, military, schools...... haha im just kidding with you! seriously, we should stick to just computer hardware.
[quote name='Chazerman' post='1022031' date='Mar 18 2010, 08:15 AM']Well I love my 3D vision. I enjoy it on my 73" Mitsubishi DLP everyday and the people I show it off too are always stunned.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.
its funny- all the tea party folks i know are white racist bigots, who watch too much fox news and believe everything that the right wing/ or religious propaganda machine churns out- all the while complaining about socialism while collecting their socialist unemployment checks and enjoying their socialist medicare, roads, police, fire dept, military, schools...... haha im just kidding with you! seriously, we should stick to just computer hardware.
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Here, the "Senior Editor of Advanced Marketing at AMD" trying to subtly pooh-pooh 3D Vision just before Big Red started working on THEIR version (which looks to be really, really B-list).
[url="http://blogs.amd.com/play/2009/02/01/3d-glasses-for-gaming/comment-page-1/#comment-3593"]http://blogs.amd.com/play/2009/02/01/3d-gl...1/#comment-3593[/url]
All the usual rhetoric is there: Eye strain, Glasses look dorky and you will lose your girlfriend for wearing them, Expensive (if you don't think of what you blew on a Graphic Card), Not Ready for Prime time, wasn't impressed...
Blah, blah, blah.
From the responses though, it appears Vision is gathering alot more supporters besides us on the 3D forums now.
Here, the "Senior Editor of Advanced Marketing at AMD" trying to subtly pooh-pooh 3D Vision just before Big Red started working on THEIR version (which looks to be really, really B-list).
http://blogs.amd.com/play/2009/02/01/3d-gl...1/#comment-3593
All the usual rhetoric is there: Eye strain, Glasses look dorky and you will lose your girlfriend for wearing them, Expensive (if you don't think of what you blew on a Graphic Card), Not Ready for Prime time, wasn't impressed...
Blah, blah, blah.
From the responses though, it appears Vision is gathering alot more supporters besides us on the 3D forums now.
It takes a Village to raise a Child, but only 1 Idiot to raze the Village.
It’s just business. I honestly don’t listen to a whole lot that AMD/ATI or nVidia tell the media directly. I prefer to rely on third party reviews and my own evaluation of the playing field … which consistently brings me back to the green team.
It’s just business. I honestly don’t listen to a whole lot that AMD/ATI or nVidia tell the media directly. I prefer to rely on third party reviews and my own evaluation of the playing field … which consistently brings me back to the green team.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.
MB=Extreme Striker
CPU=9650 Quad Core
GPU= 580
PSU=1100 watt Thermaltake
RAM= 6 Gig DDR3
Monitor= Mitsubishi WD-73835 DLP
Retracting comments I made in relation to politics. They weren’t inflammatory, but politics have no place here imo and could too easily lead to a needless argument/flamefest.
Retracting comments I made in relation to politics. They weren’t inflammatory, but politics have no place here imo and could too easily lead to a needless argument/flamefest.
From what I understand he says he expected the tech to give headaches but was surprised he didn't get any, then he says he expected 3D to radically change gameplay but from his short test, it appeared it wasn't the case. And then he says he loved the 3D effect.
Did we read the same article ?
Oh and by the way, given the monitor, system requirements and pricing, 3D vision isn't ready for prime time just yet, unfortunately that is true : you still need to be a 3D nerd to play in 3D.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are all nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)
From what I understand he says he expected the tech to give headaches but was surprised he didn't get any, then he says he expected 3D to radically change gameplay but from his short test, it appeared it wasn't the case. And then he says he loved the 3D effect.
Did we read the same article ?
Oh and by the way, given the monitor, system requirements and pricing, 3D vision isn't ready for prime time just yet, unfortunately that is true : you still need to be a 3D nerd to play in 3D.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are all nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)[/quote]
Being that 3d DLPs are very competitively priced and that 120hz LCDs can be had for $250 and less (new), I seriously doubt the investment in glasses is an insurmountable obstacle for the average gamer. A gamer has to replace his displays eventually anyway, and with as cheap as the 3d displays are now, there is no reason an intelligent gamer with any interest whatsoever in gaming experience wouldn't just get a 3d ready display. The glasses are about the cost of a mid range video card and will last a hell of lot longer without becoming obsolete. I reject your statements.
Sorry if you though you were a normal gamer, i have to remind you we are nerds. (it's alright to be nerds, don't worry, it's fine)
Being that 3d DLPs are very competitively priced and that 120hz LCDs can be had for $250 and less (new), I seriously doubt the investment in glasses is an insurmountable obstacle for the average gamer. A gamer has to replace his displays eventually anyway, and with as cheap as the 3d displays are now, there is no reason an intelligent gamer with any interest whatsoever in gaming experience wouldn't just get a 3d ready display. The glasses are about the cost of a mid range video card and will last a hell of lot longer without becoming obsolete. I reject your statements.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
I used to be a big Voodoo fan back in the day and had the original SLI with be Voodoo 2’s.
However I think this ATI guy is talking out of his ar$e and what’s more, he feck’in knows it.
3D is the future, not like the 1st incarnation a few years ago, Its here to stay.
One only has to look at the Japanese (and lets not forget the Korean) manufactures scrabbling over themselves to get to market with the 3D TV’s.(Strangely Philips who are my favourite TV manufacture (after B&O) aren’t yet dipping their toe in the 3D waters) for Phillips see ATI !!!!))
Millions nay, Billions of $, £, and € (don’t have a Yen character on my keyboard) is now being thrown at 3D from Movie studios, game developers to consumer electronics manufactures.
So for him to say;
[b][i]"I do still feel that this technology (while exhibited all over CES09) is still not ready for primetime, but I want to know your opinions too.Is this 3D Gaming technology ready for the consumers living room and does it have enough wind in its sails to be successful in a down economy? I for one don’t think so, but you be the judge. What are your thoughts?â€[/i][/b]
Is a load of bull and he damn well knows it….if he does believe it then he is deluded and needs to take his head out of his back side.
The truth is ATI have been for some reason worryingly slow to market.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.
They need to be carful as they might be so far behind that they aren’t able to claw back the market share they are about to lose.
Once you’ve played a game in 3D, you’ll never go back.
3D is the new Garlic bread !!!!!
I used to be a big Voodoo fan back in the day and had the original SLI with be Voodoo 2’s.
However I think this ATI guy is talking out of his ar$e and what’s more, he feck’in knows it.
3D is the future, not like the 1st incarnation a few years ago, Its here to stay.
One only has to look at the Japanese (and lets not forget the Korean) manufactures scrabbling over themselves to get to market with the 3D TV’s.(Strangely Philips who are my favourite TV manufacture (after B&O) aren’t yet dipping their toe in the 3D waters) for Phillips see ATI !!!!))
Millions nay, Billions of $, £, and € (don’t have a Yen character on my keyboard) is now being thrown at 3D from Movie studios, game developers to consumer electronics manufactures.
So for him to say;
"I do still feel that this technology (while exhibited all over CES09) is still not ready for primetime, but I want to know your opinions too.Is this 3D Gaming technology ready for the consumers living room and does it have enough wind in its sails to be successful in a down economy? I for one don’t think so, but you be the judge. What are your thoughts?â€
Is a load of bull and he damn well knows it….if he does believe it then he is deluded and needs to take his head out of his back side.
The truth is ATI have been for some reason worryingly slow to market.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.
They need to be carful as they might be so far behind that they aren’t able to claw back the market share they are about to lose.
Once you’ve played a game in 3D, you’ll never go back.
3D is the new Garlic bread !!!!!
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Blame Sarah Palin. ;)
Blame Sarah Palin. ;)
Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.[/quote]
I thought that, too, until recently, but now I think they're just taking the tactic of letting the big TV manufacturers do the heavy lifting to get 3d to market. As we're already seeing, the 3d TVs coming out aren't compatible with nVidia's solution, anyway, so even nVidia is releasing software that will let the TVs drive the 3d conversion process. I assume ATI will follow suit, the only difference is they never put money/effort into developing or marketing their own version of "3d Vision". Whether that was a wise move or not is up for debate.
But in any case, that AMD blogger is indeed talking out of his backside and he knows it.
I say worryingly, as they are not stupid, they can see the sea change coming and yet they appear to be burying their head in the sand. But we need at least x 2 strongly competitive card manufactures to drive innovation.
I thought that, too, until recently, but now I think they're just taking the tactic of letting the big TV manufacturers do the heavy lifting to get 3d to market. As we're already seeing, the 3d TVs coming out aren't compatible with nVidia's solution, anyway, so even nVidia is releasing software that will let the TVs drive the 3d conversion process. I assume ATI will follow suit, the only difference is they never put money/effort into developing or marketing their own version of "3d Vision". Whether that was a wise move or not is up for debate.
But in any case, that AMD blogger is indeed talking out of his backside and he knows it.
Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.[/quote]
Very very true there, most of my "average gamer" freinds dont want to constantly spend money and dont like to spend to much money on a part that will become outdated and almost worthless in 2 years time.
Although i'd agrue most of my dedicated pc mates have just gone to console gameing cos its a lot more affordable and acsessable
For the average consumer, a simple 200$ middle range graphics card is already considered a tremendous investment, the display is quite the very last piece of hardware they want to throw away, they'll keep using their current displays until the neon back-lights dies.
And this is not including the very sad fact that a huge portion of the PC market (including gamers) have moved to laptops, and not the expansive gamer laptops : the average gamer uses a cheap one, with an underpowered low-middle range laptop graphics chip.
Very very true there, most of my "average gamer" freinds dont want to constantly spend money and dont like to spend to much money on a part that will become outdated and almost worthless in 2 years time.
Although i'd agrue most of my dedicated pc mates have just gone to console gameing cos its a lot more affordable and acsessable
There are ostensibly enough gamers that buy decent PC hardware to make the developers still develop for cutting edge technology. Should they stop? Obviously not, since it is the new experiences that drive the market forward. It is like 3d stereo. At first with this new 3d vision tech, one had to drop at least $600 to have it (yeah there was already cheaper tech, however, let me ignore that for the sake of argument), and now it is down to $450 only a bit later, and that is if one is only getting a 120hz monitor for 3d, since they have other advantages. I wouldn't say that this tech is really all that out of reach anymore. It is certainly within the reach of anyone that could afford the new dx11 tech. 3d stereo doesn't immediately need to go to the Wii stage of adoption and be accessible to the "Average" person, including grandma and grandpa, for it to be considered widely adopted. It comes down to a person being educated enough to know that they can purchase 3d capable equipment for a very comparable price if they are buying new equipment anyway, and as time goes on, it will be difficult to buy a display that isn't capable of 3d in one way or another. Besides that, we are completely ignoring the myriad CRT monitors that are plenty capable of existing as a stop gap for a consumer to enjoy 3d with until such time as they are upgrading anyway.
How many people really have "gaming" PCs that are capable of playing more than casual games? Probably not very many in the grand scheme of gaming, however, PC gaming is still considered a large market. 3d stereo doesn't need to be in every single household to be successful anymore than a powerful pc needs to be in every household. However, we are really on the cusp of a 3d revolution. nV is behind it, ATi is getting on board finally, Sony is on board (with the PS3 games in tow no less) and many movie makers and TV manufacturers.
It is going to get even cheaper as it gets more ingrained in the mass consciousness. Do people just point at every new technological experience and crap all over because it isn't immediately accessible to everyone on earth? Or perhaps many simply do not like the idea of wanting something new that they do not have, as it creates a situation where they are missing something.
Well, I will tell anyone whom is reading this thread right now. If you are not gaming in 3d, or cannot game in 3d, YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING GREAT!
There... are you over your initial annoyance? Well, don't worry about it too much. A good game is a good game, but a good game in 3d can be absolutely mind blowing. So, the next time you are thinking about a new display, think about a 3d compatible one... it won't cost much more (if anything more) and it will let you experience 3d stereo gaming when you can afford it.
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.
[/rambling missive]
There are ostensibly enough gamers that buy decent PC hardware to make the developers still develop for cutting edge technology. Should they stop? Obviously not, since it is the new experiences that drive the market forward. It is like 3d stereo. At first with this new 3d vision tech, one had to drop at least $600 to have it (yeah there was already cheaper tech, however, let me ignore that for the sake of argument), and now it is down to $450 only a bit later, and that is if one is only getting a 120hz monitor for 3d, since they have other advantages. I wouldn't say that this tech is really all that out of reach anymore. It is certainly within the reach of anyone that could afford the new dx11 tech. 3d stereo doesn't immediately need to go to the Wii stage of adoption and be accessible to the "Average" person, including grandma and grandpa, for it to be considered widely adopted. It comes down to a person being educated enough to know that they can purchase 3d capable equipment for a very comparable price if they are buying new equipment anyway, and as time goes on, it will be difficult to buy a display that isn't capable of 3d in one way or another. Besides that, we are completely ignoring the myriad CRT monitors that are plenty capable of existing as a stop gap for a consumer to enjoy 3d with until such time as they are upgrading anyway.
How many people really have "gaming" PCs that are capable of playing more than casual games? Probably not very many in the grand scheme of gaming, however, PC gaming is still considered a large market. 3d stereo doesn't need to be in every single household to be successful anymore than a powerful pc needs to be in every household. However, we are really on the cusp of a 3d revolution. nV is behind it, ATi is getting on board finally, Sony is on board (with the PS3 games in tow no less) and many movie makers and TV manufacturers.
It is going to get even cheaper as it gets more ingrained in the mass consciousness. Do people just point at every new technological experience and crap all over because it isn't immediately accessible to everyone on earth? Or perhaps many simply do not like the idea of wanting something new that they do not have, as it creates a situation where they are missing something.
Well, I will tell anyone whom is reading this thread right now. If you are not gaming in 3d, or cannot game in 3d, YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING GREAT!
There... are you over your initial annoyance? Well, don't worry about it too much. A good game is a good game, but a good game in 3d can be absolutely mind blowing. So, the next time you are thinking about a new display, think about a 3d compatible one... it won't cost much more (if anything more) and it will let you experience 3d stereo gaming when you can afford it.
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.
[/rambling missive]
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.[/quote]
That was a wonderfully articulate outburst! 'Here Here!' to your post my friend. It feels good to be riding the bleeding edge.
Andy
I don't think there are many of us that are all that rich (I'm sure a few are). However, we are on the cutting edge. We know how great 3d is and what it can add to the world synthetic experiences. We are the ones pushing the market forward so that someday others can easily experience what makes gaming in 3d so exciting. Personally, I am fiercely proud to be part of the community at large that is bringing these amazing experiences to any gamer that will listen and open his/her mind to the possibilities that 3d gaming allows.
That was a wonderfully articulate outburst! 'Here Here!' to your post my friend. It feels good to be riding the bleeding edge.
Andy
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.[/quote]
its funny- all the tea party folks i know are white racist bigots, who watch too much fox news and believe everything that the right wing/ or religious propaganda machine churns out- all the while complaining about socialism while collecting their socialist unemployment checks and enjoying their socialist medicare, roads, police, fire dept, military, schools...... haha im just kidding with you! seriously, we should stick to just computer hardware.
Tea Party folk are the everyday hardworking, taxpaying voters who are trying to raise their children to be honest and to treat others fairly and to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which are the rights granted to them by their CREATOR. They are the people who are fed up with the lies, the corruption, the scams and back room deals that is going on in our country. So when you look down your nose at these folks it makes me suspect not only your opinions but your honesty as well. Perhaps just a lack of maturity.
its funny- all the tea party folks i know are white racist bigots, who watch too much fox news and believe everything that the right wing/ or religious propaganda machine churns out- all the while complaining about socialism while collecting their socialist unemployment checks and enjoying their socialist medicare, roads, police, fire dept, military, schools...... haha im just kidding with you! seriously, we should stick to just computer hardware.
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Samsung 65D8000