Please help me fix the 60FPS @ 120Hz issue once and for all!
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Hi fellas, There is a lot of misinformation out there. Opinions may differ but the truth is that there is a noticeable difference betwen 60FPS and 120FPS. Some people are more sensitive to it than others. The problem: 3D vision is always locked at half the FPS for the max possible of any given display, e.g. 60 FPS with a 120Hz display. It is true that the driver shows 60Hz to each eye, but the frame for the other eye is exactly duplicated instead of being the next logical frame. Let me give an example: Glasses shutter followed by frame number: LRLRLRLRLR 1122334455 60FPS @ 120Hz It should be: LRLRLRLRL 123456789 Proper 120FPS @ 120Hz Does that make sense? Why would they do this? The only reason I can fathom is that someone had the bright misconception that having the same frame repeated for both eyes *might* reduce the vertigo some users experience in S3D. Of course, in my testing, this hypothesis is completely unfounded. It's akin to cutting off your arm because some users *may* feel an itch on a finger. This means that games are forced down to 60FPS instead of the possible 120. nVidia being a gaming focussed company should [u][i]know[/i][/u] that 60FPS is not enough. Gaming dislays are 120Hz+ for a reason. The only semi-work around that I have found is to force vsync to OFF on the games which support it by using nv inspector. Then cap the framerate at 120hz to minimize tearing. The difference is quite astonishing! Proper, fluid motion, albeit with random screen tearing which detracts from the experience. Can someone help find a way to hack the driver into allowing 120FPS? nVidia, as usual will have their fingers in their ears. Regards, -- Shahzad
Hi fellas,

There is a lot of misinformation out there.

Opinions may differ but the truth is that there is a noticeable difference betwen 60FPS and 120FPS. Some people are more sensitive to it than others.

The problem:

3D vision is always locked at half the FPS for the max possible of any given display, e.g. 60 FPS with a 120Hz display.

It is true that the driver shows 60Hz to each eye, but the frame for the other eye is exactly duplicated instead of being the next logical frame.

Let me give an example:
Glasses shutter followed by frame number:
LRLRLRLRLR
1122334455
60FPS @ 120Hz

It should be:
LRLRLRLRL
123456789
Proper 120FPS @ 120Hz


Does that make sense?

Why would they do this? The only reason I can fathom is that someone had the bright misconception that having the same frame repeated for both eyes *might* reduce the vertigo some users experience in S3D. Of course, in my testing, this hypothesis is completely unfounded. It's akin to cutting off your arm because some users *may* feel an itch on a finger.

This means that games are forced down to 60FPS instead of the possible 120. nVidia being a gaming focussed company should know that 60FPS is not enough. Gaming dislays are 120Hz+ for a reason.

The only semi-work around that I have found is to force vsync to OFF on the games which support it by using nv inspector. Then cap the framerate at 120hz to minimize tearing.

The difference is quite astonishing! Proper, fluid motion, albeit with random screen tearing which detracts from the experience.

Can someone help find a way to hack the driver into allowing 120FPS? nVidia, as usual will have their fingers in their ears.

Regards,
-- Shahzad

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#1
Posted 08/09/2013 12:59 AM   
Doesn't it go 112233445566 simply because each frame has to be rendered twice. Once for each eye, so you get a 3D perspective. If each frame was different, your brain could not properly process the object from both views because the 2nd view is changed and the object is moved/changed.
Doesn't it go 112233445566 simply because each frame has to be rendered twice. Once for each eye, so you get a 3D perspective. If each frame was different, your brain could not properly process the object from both views because the 2nd view is changed and the object is moved/changed.

#2
Posted 08/09/2013 01:07 AM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Doesn't it go 112233445566 simply because each frame has to be rendered twice. Once for each eye, so you get a 3D perspective. If each frame was different, your brain could not properly process the object from both views because the 2nd view is changed and the object is moved/changed.[/quote] No, I'm afraid that is a huge misconception, probably the same misconception that the driver writers believed. Try it yourself. Force vSync to OFF, and check that you are getting 120fps in a game by using a utility such as FRAPS. You will notice much smoother gameplay and 3D will be perfectly fine - even more immerse due to higher fluidity I would say... if it wasn't for the tearing :)
D-Man11 said:Doesn't it go 112233445566 simply because each frame has to be rendered twice. Once for each eye, so you get a 3D perspective. If each frame was different, your brain could not properly process the object from both views because the 2nd view is changed and the object is moved/changed.


No, I'm afraid that is a huge misconception, probably the same misconception that the driver writers believed.

Try it yourself. Force vSync to OFF, and check that you are getting 120fps in a game by using a utility such as FRAPS. You will notice much smoother gameplay and 3D will be perfectly fine - even more immerse due to higher fluidity I would say... if it wasn't for the tearing :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#3
Posted 08/09/2013 01:19 AM   
Im confused. If I grab a 60HZ monitor and I turn off vsync. I could go up to 250fps but it doesnt matter since my monitor is 60hz-60fps. All it does give me a lot of tearing. Maybe I am missing something but I dont get it. Left eye needs to see left camera. Right eye needs to see right camera. Thats how you get 3D image. I get what your saying though, a game can look smoother with VSYNC OFF in either 2D or 3D. But then you start running into the tearing. Its not that the formula is changing or anything. But your stuck the reason the tearing happens is because its exceeding what can be done. Like you got the gas to give you that image you want, but your display cant handle it. VSYNC literally syncronizes the game with your display max hz. Your getting the "what it would be like". But it just makes the image unstable.
Im confused. If I grab a 60HZ monitor and I turn off vsync. I could go up to 250fps but it doesnt matter since my monitor is 60hz-60fps. All it does give me a lot of tearing.
Maybe I am missing something but I dont get it. Left eye needs to see left camera. Right eye needs to see right camera. Thats how you get 3D image.

I get what your saying though, a game can look smoother with VSYNC OFF in either 2D or 3D. But then you start running into the tearing. Its not that the formula is changing or anything. But your stuck the reason the tearing happens is because its exceeding what can be done.
Like you got the gas to give you that image you want, but your display cant handle it. VSYNC literally syncronizes the game with your display max hz. Your getting the "what it would be like". But it just makes the image unstable.

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#4
Posted 08/09/2013 01:38 AM   
[quote="eqzitara"]Im confused. If I grab a 60HZ monitor and I turn off vsync. I could go up to 250fps but it doesnt matter since my monitor is 60hz-60fps. All it does give me a lot of tearing. A 120hz monitor is limited at 60 hz per eye. Turning off vsync will let me for past 120fps but display cant handle it which just resorts to tearing. Its same as a 2D display. Seeing a your left frame in right eye or vice versa would be VERY disorienting and would ruin the 3d effect since its all about maintaining 2 seperate images in each eye.[/quote] Hi eqzitara, I'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick old chap, probably because of the late night... Where are you? It's hard for me to explain, but please re-read my post. Like I said, there is a lot of miss-information. You make 2 points. 1. You think I am trying to go over my refresh rate limit of my display by turning off vsync. I assure you that this is not the case. The only reason I disable vsync is to enable 120fps on my 120Hz display whereas otherwise I would be limited to 60fps by the 3d vision driver. All this does is enables the filling of the buffers so that the following can take place: LRLRLRLRL 123456789 Instead of forced LRLRLRLRLR 1122334455 2. You think that by turning off vsync, the images for the left and right eyes would bleed into each others' buffers. Again, I assure you that this is not the case. IIRC, nvidia uses a front buffer and a back buffer for Stereo3D. These buffers will never bleed into each other, i.e. the right eye will never get even the smallest glimpse of what is meant for the left eye and vise-versa (ghosting excepted). The lack of vsync simply means that there will be tearing in each eye at [u]each interleaved refresh cycle.[/u]. You see, nVidia's S3D is special in that even with VSyne off, there is still "refresh" sync between the buffers and the display, even though there is no "data" sync. One complete refresh of a display contains all the contents of one of the buffers. The next sync displays on screen the contents of the other buffer, whatever that data may be. (Hence why triple buffering is force enabled with s3D to - increase buffer working space). Remember that VSync option is syncing to the front and back buffers, not necessarily the refresh of the physical display. The refresh of the physical display being sync'd is just an added bonus in 2D mode. Wow, this is getting so technical! I hope I'm not putting anyone off :) Again, I am confident that the vast majority of Stereo Gamers (yourself included I feel), who even know what to look for, think they are playing at 120FPS on their 120Hz displays when in reality they are playing at 60FPS on their 120FPS displays. I am confident that most stereo gamers don't even realize that the issue exists at all. Conversely, many may be happy; resigned to the fact that having to play at 60fps on a 120Hz display is just a small disadvantage in comparison to what Stereo3D offers... and they would be correct. But, why not have both? There doesn't have to be any issue at all. I can once again assure you that I have tested the theory. I urge you and anyone else reading this to try for yourselves: Boot up a game which you can easily get ~160+ FPS in 2D (i.e. one where you will get 120+ in 3D due to a marginal drop in performance). Force disable VSync. Cap the fps to 120. Use FRAPS to ensure you are now getting 120FPS in said game in S3D. Try to ignore the intermittent tearing and mentally compare the fluidity of this configuration versus vsync on with 60FPS. I am confident you will see a far more fluid game in perfect S3D, minus some tearing artifacts. If there is a specific section of what I am trying to show that is not understandable, please tell me. I am sure there will be many more people who feel the same way. I shall try to give more details to make the issue more transparrent :)
eqzitara said:Im confused. If I grab a 60HZ monitor and I turn off vsync. I could go up to 250fps but it doesnt matter since my monitor is 60hz-60fps. All it does give me a lot of tearing.
A 120hz monitor is limited at 60 hz per eye. Turning off vsync will let me for past 120fps but display cant handle it which just resorts to tearing. Its same as a 2D display.
Seeing a your left frame in right eye or vice versa would be VERY disorienting and would ruin the 3d effect since its all about maintaining 2 seperate images in each eye.


Hi eqzitara,

I'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick old chap, probably because of the late night... Where are you? It's hard for me to explain, but please re-read my post.

Like I said, there is a lot of miss-information.

You make 2 points.
1. You think I am trying to go over my refresh rate limit of my display by turning off vsync. I assure you that this is not the case. The only reason I disable vsync is to enable 120fps on my 120Hz display whereas otherwise I would be limited to 60fps by the 3d vision driver.

All this does is enables the filling of the buffers so that the following can take place:
LRLRLRLRL
123456789

Instead of forced

LRLRLRLRLR
1122334455

2. You think that by turning off vsync, the images for the left and right eyes would bleed into each others' buffers. Again, I assure you that this is not the case. IIRC, nvidia uses a front buffer and a back buffer for Stereo3D. These buffers will never bleed into each other, i.e. the right eye will never get even the smallest glimpse of what is meant for the left eye and vise-versa (ghosting excepted). The lack of vsync simply means that there will be tearing in each eye at each interleaved refresh cycle..

You see, nVidia's S3D is special in that even with VSyne off, there is still "refresh" sync between the buffers and the display, even though there is no "data" sync. One complete refresh of a display contains all the contents of one of the buffers. The next sync displays on screen the contents of the other buffer, whatever that data may be. (Hence why triple buffering is force enabled with s3D to - increase buffer working space).

Remember that VSync option is syncing to the front and back buffers, not necessarily the refresh of the physical display. The refresh of the physical display being sync'd is just an added bonus in 2D mode.

Wow, this is getting so technical! I hope I'm not putting anyone off :)

Again, I am confident that the vast majority of Stereo Gamers (yourself included I feel), who even know what to look for, think they are playing at 120FPS on their 120Hz displays when in reality they are playing at 60FPS on their 120FPS displays. I am confident that most stereo gamers don't even realize that the issue exists at all. Conversely, many may be happy; resigned to the fact that having to play at 60fps on a 120Hz display is just a small disadvantage in comparison to what Stereo3D offers... and they would be correct. But, why not have both? There doesn't have to be any issue at all.

I can once again assure you that I have tested the theory. I urge you and anyone else reading this to try for yourselves: Boot up a game which you can easily get ~160+ FPS in 2D (i.e. one where you will get 120+ in 3D due to a marginal drop in performance). Force disable VSync. Cap the fps to 120. Use FRAPS to ensure you are now getting 120FPS in said game in S3D. Try to ignore the intermittent tearing and mentally compare the fluidity of this configuration versus vsync on with 60FPS. I am confident you will see a far more fluid game in perfect S3D, minus some tearing artifacts.

If there is a specific section of what I am trying to show that is not understandable, please tell me. I am sure there will be many more people who feel the same way. I shall try to give more details to make the issue more transparrent :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#5
Posted 08/09/2013 01:51 AM   
When you run a 120hz display in 3d mode, it refreshes 120 times a second. That means you see 120 images a second. So each eye sees 60 frames each, as you need half the frames going to each eye. Therefore, 60fps is the highest framerate you can get (per eye) on a 120hz monitor. If you turn 3d off, you can see 120 frames per second If you turn vsync off, your graphics card may render more frames than that - but your monitor won't display them all. That's why I can get 400+fps in half-life 2, but it will never look smoother than it does at 60fps (3d) or 120fps (2d) - and I'll have tearing on top of that.
When you run a 120hz display in 3d mode, it refreshes 120 times a second.

That means you see 120 images a second.

So each eye sees 60 frames each, as you need half the frames going to each eye.

Therefore, 60fps is the highest framerate you can get (per eye) on a 120hz monitor.

If you turn 3d off, you can see 120 frames per second

If you turn vsync off, your graphics card may render more frames than that - but your monitor won't display them all. That's why I can get 400+fps in half-life 2, but it will never look smoother than it does at 60fps (3d) or 120fps (2d) - and I'll have tearing on top of that.

#6
Posted 08/09/2013 01:55 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"][quote="D-Man11"]Doesn't it go 112233445566 simply because each frame has to be rendered twice. Once for each eye, so you get a 3D perspective. If each frame was different, your brain could not properly process the object from both views because the 2nd view is changed and the object is moved/changed.[/quote] No, I'm afraid that is a huge misconception, probably the same misconception that the driver writers believed. Try it yourself. Force vSync to OFF, and check that you are getting 120fps in a game by using a utility such as FRAPS. You will notice much smoother gameplay and 3D will be perfectly fine - even more immerse due to higher fluidity I would say... if it wasn't for the tearing :) [/quote] Funny that you write this;)) In openGL you actually get better performance if you force VSYNC ON! Probably a driver bug but I couldn't help to notice the difference:) Haven't tried it on DX yet. At least in OpenGL it behaves like this: VSYnc OFF crappy 30fps with 60-70% GPU utilization (ONE GPU, NO SLI card no nothing) VSYNC ON constant 60fps with 99% GPU utilization. I don't know if this transfers to DX but ...well I thought it was worth mentioning it.
RAGEdemon said:
D-Man11 said:Doesn't it go 112233445566 simply because each frame has to be rendered twice. Once for each eye, so you get a 3D perspective. If each frame was different, your brain could not properly process the object from both views because the 2nd view is changed and the object is moved/changed.


No, I'm afraid that is a huge misconception, probably the same misconception that the driver writers believed.

Try it yourself. Force vSync to OFF, and check that you are getting 120fps in a game by using a utility such as FRAPS. You will notice much smoother gameplay and 3D will be perfectly fine - even more immerse due to higher fluidity I would say... if it wasn't for the tearing :)




Funny that you write this;)) In openGL you actually get better performance if you force VSYNC ON!
Probably a driver bug but I couldn't help to notice the difference:) Haven't tried it on DX yet.
At least in OpenGL it behaves like this:
VSYnc OFF crappy 30fps with 60-70% GPU utilization (ONE GPU, NO SLI card no nothing)
VSYNC ON constant 60fps with 99% GPU utilization.

I don't know if this transfers to DX but ...well I thought it was worth mentioning it.

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#7
Posted 08/09/2013 02:11 AM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]When you run a 120hz display in 3d mode, it refreshes 120 times a second. That means you see 120 images a second. So each eye sees 60 frames each, as you need half the frames going to each eye. Therefore, 60fps is the highest framerate you can get (per eye) on a 120hz monitor. If you turn 3d off, you can see 120 frames per second If you turn vsync off, your graphics card may render more frames than that - but your monitor won't display them all. That's why I can get 400+fps in half-life 2, but it will never look smoother than it does at 60fps (3d) or 120fps (2d) - and I'll have tearing on top of that.[/quote] Hi Pirateguybrush, Please open up a GPU statistics utility for a game that you will get ~120FPS in 2D. FRAPS will say ~120FPS. Now turn on S3D. FRAPS will now show 60FPS. Look at your GPU utilisation. It will have significantly [u][i]decreased[/i][/u] because you are no longer generating 120FPS (it's like you had capped your fps to 60) because the driver is showing the same frame for both eyes, just from different perspectives. The GPU just isn't working as hard. I'll do more tests tomorrow to see if I am going crazy or I can maybe show a better illustration of what is happening. Perhaps a bit of both ;-)
Pirateguybrush said:When you run a 120hz display in 3d mode, it refreshes 120 times a second.

That means you see 120 images a second.

So each eye sees 60 frames each, as you need half the frames going to each eye.

Therefore, 60fps is the highest framerate you can get (per eye) on a 120hz monitor.

If you turn 3d off, you can see 120 frames per second

If you turn vsync off, your graphics card may render more frames than that - but your monitor won't display them all. That's why I can get 400+fps in half-life 2, but it will never look smoother than it does at 60fps (3d) or 120fps (2d) - and I'll have tearing on top of that.


Hi Pirateguybrush,

Please open up a GPU statistics utility for a game that you will get ~120FPS in 2D. FRAPS will say ~120FPS. Now turn on S3D. FRAPS will now show 60FPS. Look at your GPU utilisation. It will have significantly decreased because you are no longer generating 120FPS (it's like you had capped your fps to 60) because the driver is showing the same frame for both eyes, just from different perspectives. The GPU just isn't working as hard.

I'll do more tests tomorrow to see if I am going crazy or I can maybe show a better illustration of what is happening. Perhaps a bit of both ;-)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#8
Posted 08/09/2013 02:30 AM   
What Display are you using, perhaps it's resolving/injecting the extra frames via algorithms I do not believe there is any misconception in the notion that a person needs to see both right and left images of an object to create a 3D image and that the images must match/be the same frame.
What Display are you using, perhaps it's resolving/injecting the extra frames via algorithms

I do not believe there is any misconception in the notion that a person needs to see both right and left images of an object to create a 3D image and that the images must match/be the same frame.

#9
Posted 08/09/2013 02:34 AM   
Tried it, doesn't work. Assuming I'm understanding you right, the time gap means that you get a different image for each eye, if or not this would be noticable at a constant 120FPS is hard to say, but I tried this with Mass Effect 3 (a game that is near flawless with the Helix fix) and simulated an FPS drop. http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtsvga Looks like a mess.
Tried it, doesn't work. Assuming I'm understanding you right, the time gap means that you get a different image for each eye, if or not this would be noticable at a constant 120FPS is hard to say, but I tried this with Mass Effect 3 (a game that is near flawless with the Helix fix) and simulated an FPS drop.


http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtsvga


Looks like a mess.

#10
Posted 08/09/2013 02:37 AM   
[quote="D-Man11"]What Display are you using, perhaps it's resolving/injecting the extra frames via algorithms I do not believe there is any misconception in the notion that a person needs to see both right and left images of an object to create a 3D image and that the images must match/be the same frame.[/quote] I am using a 120Hz projector with DLP link glasses. You are quite correct, but would you concede that the brain cannon detect minute differences in motion, i.e. movies work at 24FPS but your brain sees a smooth motion. Depth perception works in much the same way. It's 3.40 am here in England. Good night :)
D-Man11 said:What Display are you using, perhaps it's resolving/injecting the extra frames via algorithms

I do not believe there is any misconception in the notion that a person needs to see both right and left images of an object to create a 3D image and that the images must match/be the same frame.


I am using a 120Hz projector with DLP link glasses.

You are quite correct, but would you concede that the brain cannon detect minute differences in motion, i.e. movies work at 24FPS but your brain sees a smooth motion. Depth perception works in much the same way.

It's 3.40 am here in England. Good night :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#11
Posted 08/09/2013 02:40 AM   
[quote="Cookybiscuit"]Tried it, doesn't work. Assuming I'm understanding you right, the time gap means that you get a different image for each eye, if or not this would be noticable at a constant 120FPS is hard to say, but I tried this with Mass Effect 3 (a game that is near flawless with the Helix fix) and simulated an FPS drop. http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtsvga Looks like a mess.[/quote] Indeed. By your simulated FPS drop, i'm surprised it looks as good as it does. It only semi-works at V high FPS. Pardon my ignorance but why are you simulating an FPS drop? This is exactly the kind of scenario I am looking for a fix for - one which would allow 120FPS @ 120Hz, and would work even with FPS drops - VSync would have to be on of course!
Cookybiscuit said:Tried it, doesn't work. Assuming I'm understanding you right, the time gap means that you get a different image for each eye, if or not this would be noticable at a constant 120FPS is hard to say, but I tried this with Mass Effect 3 (a game that is near flawless with the Helix fix) and simulated an FPS drop.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtsvga

Looks like a mess.


Indeed. By your simulated FPS drop, i'm surprised it looks as good as it does. It only semi-works at V high FPS. Pardon my ignorance but why are you simulating an FPS drop? This is exactly the kind of scenario I am looking for a fix for - one which would allow 120FPS @ 120Hz, and would work even with FPS drops - VSync would have to be on of course!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#12
Posted 08/09/2013 02:50 AM   
RLRLRLRLRLRL=image to eye/glass shutter 112233445566778899=image repeated once for each eye RLRLRLRLR 123456789=image is not repeated, a new image is shown sequentially in each eye If this was the case and you were at a lan party and the guy next to you was playing in 2D on a 120Hz screen, you could glance over and see his gameplay as 3D. But you can't, the "same" image must be drawn twice with offset views. http://developer.download.nvidia.com/assets/gamedev/docs/Siggraph2011-Stereoscopy_From_XY_to_Z-SG.pdf You can not compare the naked eye, we have many visual clues in real life to make us perceive depth. On a display we must be tricked with the same visual clue rendered twice. Edit: Keep in mind that in real life images to both eyes are received simultaneously not idependently/sequentially.
RLRLRLRLRLRL=image to eye/glass shutter

112233445566778899=image repeated once for each eye



RLRLRLRLR
123456789=image is not repeated, a new image is shown sequentially in each eye

If this was the case and you were at a lan party and the guy next to you was playing in 2D on a 120Hz screen, you could glance over and see his gameplay as 3D.

But you can't, the "same" image must be drawn twice with offset views.

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/assets/gamedev/docs/Siggraph2011-Stereoscopy_From_XY_to_Z-SG.pdf

You can not compare the naked eye, we have many visual clues in real life to make us perceive depth.

On a display we must be tricked with the same visual clue rendered twice.

Edit: Keep in mind that in real life images to both eyes are received simultaneously not idependently/sequentially.

#13
Posted 08/09/2013 02:55 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"][quote="Cookybiscuit"]Tried it, doesn't work. Assuming I'm understanding you right, the time gap means that you get a different image for each eye, if or not this would be noticable at a constant 120FPS is hard to say, but I tried this with Mass Effect 3 (a game that is near flawless with the Helix fix) and simulated an FPS drop. http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtsvga Looks like a mess.[/quote] Indeed. By your simulated FPS drop, i'm surprised it looks as good as it does. It only semi-works at V high FPS. Pardon my ignorance but why are you simulating an FPS drop? This is exactly the kind of scenario I am looking for a fix for - one which would allow 120FPS @ 120Hz, and would work even with FPS drops - VSync would have to be on of course! [/quote] Just prove it won't really work on modern games. I can't even think of a game I can get a consistent 120FPS in on 3D, thats with a 780 and 3570k. That said, even at 120FPS I really doubt it would work. The miss match means you are going to get things rendering weird, certainly not worth the trade off. Working 3D>120FPS.
RAGEdemon said:
Cookybiscuit said:Tried it, doesn't work. Assuming I'm understanding you right, the time gap means that you get a different image for each eye, if or not this would be noticable at a constant 120FPS is hard to say, but I tried this with Mass Effect 3 (a game that is near flawless with the Helix fix) and simulated an FPS drop.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtsvga

Looks like a mess.


Indeed. By your simulated FPS drop, i'm surprised it looks as good as it does. It only semi-works at V high FPS. Pardon my ignorance but why are you simulating an FPS drop? This is exactly the kind of scenario I am looking for a fix for - one which would allow 120FPS @ 120Hz, and would work even with FPS drops - VSync would have to be on of course!



Just prove it won't really work on modern games. I can't even think of a game I can get a consistent 120FPS in on 3D, thats with a 780 and 3570k. That said, even at 120FPS I really doubt it would work. The miss match means you are going to get things rendering weird, certainly not worth the trade off. Working 3D>120FPS.

#14
Posted 08/09/2013 03:00 AM   
You can only get 60fps per eye on a 120hz display though. The number of frames displayed per second [i]in total[/i] should still be 120, but each eye is only seeing 60. I would suggest the reason you see fraps reporting 60fps may be because it's only looking at one "eye" of the rendering. The claim about gpu usage dropping is interesting though, I'll have to run up a performance monitor on my second screen and observe the results.
You can only get 60fps per eye on a 120hz display though. The number of frames displayed per second in total should still be 120, but each eye is only seeing 60.

I would suggest the reason you see fraps reporting 60fps may be because it's only looking at one "eye" of the rendering. The claim about gpu usage dropping is interesting though, I'll have to run up a performance monitor on my second screen and observe the results.

#15
Posted 08/09/2013 03:16 AM   
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