Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
There are still some games using it. http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/physx/games
But I wonder if PhysX will soon be a thing of the past, now that Microsoft has purchased the "Havoc" Engine/Company from Intel back in October or will it drive developers to PhysX if Microsoft is too heavy handed? Havok founded in 1998 was acquired by Intel in 2007.
"Havok will not be limited to Microsoft exclusively. “We will continue to license Havok’s technology to the broad AAA games industry," a representative told IGN. "This also means that we will continue to license Havok’s technology to run across various game consoles including Sony and Nintendo.”
"As we welcome Havok to the Microsoft family, we will continue to work with developers to create great gaming experiences, and continue to license Havok’s development tools to partners. We believe that Havok is a fantastic addition to Microsoft’s existing tools and platform components for developers, including DirectX 12, Visual Studio and Microsoft Azure."
"Part of this innovation will include building the most complete cloud service, which we’ve just started to show through games like “Crackdown 3.”
[color="orange"]Just say "NO" to the Cloud![/color]
But I wonder if PhysX will soon be a thing of the past, now that Microsoft has purchased the "Havoc" Engine/Company from Intel back in October or will it drive developers to PhysX if Microsoft is too heavy handed? Havok founded in 1998 was acquired by Intel in 2007.
"Havok will not be limited to Microsoft exclusively. “We will continue to license Havok’s technology to the broad AAA games industry," a representative told IGN. "This also means that we will continue to license Havok’s technology to run across various game consoles including Sony and Nintendo.”
"As we welcome Havok to the Microsoft family, we will continue to work with developers to create great gaming experiences, and continue to license Havok’s development tools to partners. We believe that Havok is a fantastic addition to Microsoft’s existing tools and platform components for developers, including DirectX 12, Visual Studio and Microsoft Azure."
"Part of this innovation will include building the most complete cloud service, which we’ve just started to show through games like “Crackdown 3.”
Havok Announcers Havok FX Software For Better Particle Effects In Games June 4, 2015
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/havok-fx-improves-physical-effects,29304.html
Thanks for the links.
I am debating selling both 670s or just one and keeping the other for PhysX. It looks like most listed games are fairly old.
Prolly sell both!
I am debating selling both 670s or just one and keeping the other for PhysX. It looks like most listed games are fairly old.
Prolly sell both!
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
If your new GPU is powerfull enought, probably no use of dedicated card IMO.
You can check also [url=http://www.volnapc.com/all-posts/how-much-difference-does-a-dedicated-physx-card-make]Volna Iskra Test[/url]
Volna's tests are all for old games. Which is a shame. :(
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
PhysX affects 3D Vision users more than it affects regular users.
3D vision scales superbly with SLI. Unfortunately, PhysX is loaded only onto one card.
For example, this means that while one card can be running at 100% load: at 50% on graphics and 50% on PhysX, the other card will only scale to 50% graphics and stop right there. This means that both GPUs will only be utilised at 50% max (in this example).
In gaming, this translates to the minimum frame rate suffering heavily.
As soon as you have a dedicated solution, the GPU's can go back to BOTH handling 100% of the graphics load. This means that you will get a dramatically increased minimum FPS, as shown by Volna's tests.
PhysX is just not designed for multi GPU use. And it is nVidia only, which makes it toxic as no game dev wants to invest R&D on something that only some of the gamer base will use. Most medium to low end nVidia users will even disable it just because it is such a performance hog.
I believe Havok used to be free for developers? MS are now going to try and monetise it. Expect only AAA titles to support it as MS say - the smaller devs will not be abe to afford the license fees.
It doesn't look like Physics in games has much of a future unless it is given and encouraged as apart of open tools or built intrinsically as part of game engines.
It's a shame really. When done right, Physics in games do look amazing. It's Physics effects in games are what make them fun and satisfying. No-one wants to see the same scripted death animation for the thousandth time. We want it to be dynamic.
PhysX affects 3D Vision users more than it affects regular users.
3D vision scales superbly with SLI. Unfortunately, PhysX is loaded only onto one card.
For example, this means that while one card can be running at 100% load: at 50% on graphics and 50% on PhysX, the other card will only scale to 50% graphics and stop right there. This means that both GPUs will only be utilised at 50% max (in this example).
In gaming, this translates to the minimum frame rate suffering heavily.
As soon as you have a dedicated solution, the GPU's can go back to BOTH handling 100% of the graphics load. This means that you will get a dramatically increased minimum FPS, as shown by Volna's tests.
PhysX is just not designed for multi GPU use. And it is nVidia only, which makes it toxic as no game dev wants to invest R&D on something that only some of the gamer base will use. Most medium to low end nVidia users will even disable it just because it is such a performance hog.
I believe Havok used to be free for developers? MS are now going to try and monetise it. Expect only AAA titles to support it as MS say - the smaller devs will not be abe to afford the license fees.
It doesn't look like Physics in games has much of a future unless it is given and encouraged as apart of open tools or built intrinsically as part of game engines.
It's a shame really. When done right, Physics in games do look amazing. It's Physics effects in games are what make them fun and satisfying. No-one wants to see the same scripted death animation for the thousandth time. We want it to be dynamic.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
:(
I had to give up on SLI. In certain games it would start out awesome, then the FPS would slowly drop to below the FPS of one card!
I think it was a heat problem but IDK. Annoying though!
I had to give up on SLI. In certain games it would start out awesome, then the FPS would slowly drop to below the FPS of one card!
I think it was a heat problem but IDK. Annoying though!
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
[quote="RAGEdemon"] I believe Havoc used to be free for developers? MS are now going to try and monetise it. Expect only AAA titles to support it as MS say - the smaller devs will not be abe to afford the license fees.
It doesn't look like Physics in games has much of a future unless it is given and encouraged as apart of open tools or built intrinsically as part of game engines.
It's a shame really. When done right, Physics in games do look amazing. It's Physics effects in games are what make them fun and satisfying. No-one wants to see the same scripted death animation for the thousandth time. We want it to be dynamic.[/quote]
I don't think it was free, but I've really no idea.
On the Havoc page now it says....
AAA Development
Full Source, full customization, full control
For teams requiring the ability to customize the SDK, Havok offers full source licenses for Havok Physics, Destruction, Cloth, AI, Animation Studio, Script and the Vision Engine. With over 500 games powered by Havok middleware, this is the leading licensing choice for AAA developers.
EMERGING TEAMS AND STUDIOS
Start using Havok today via the Strike Program
The Havok Strike Program allows smaller budget teams and projects to take advantage of Havok’s industry leading middleware and support through individually negotiated licensing terms.
Quoted from http://www.havok.com/havok-sales/
RAGEdemon said: I believe Havoc used to be free for developers? MS are now going to try and monetise it. Expect only AAA titles to support it as MS say - the smaller devs will not be abe to afford the license fees.
It doesn't look like Physics in games has much of a future unless it is given and encouraged as apart of open tools or built intrinsically as part of game engines.
It's a shame really. When done right, Physics in games do look amazing. It's Physics effects in games are what make them fun and satisfying. No-one wants to see the same scripted death animation for the thousandth time. We want it to be dynamic.
I don't think it was free, but I've really no idea.
On the Havoc page now it says....
AAA Development
Full Source, full customization, full control
For teams requiring the ability to customize the SDK, Havok offers full source licenses for Havok Physics, Destruction, Cloth, AI, Animation Studio, Script and the Vision Engine. With over 500 games powered by Havok middleware, this is the leading licensing choice for AAA developers.
EMERGING TEAMS AND STUDIOS
Start using Havok today via the Strike Program
The Havok Strike Program allows smaller budget teams and projects to take advantage of Havok’s industry leading middleware and support through individually negotiated licensing terms.
Thanks for the link D-Man11.
This article suggests that it was completely free...
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/02/22/havok_physics_goes_free/1
I think game studios will be less inclined than even before to use it now :(
The old Intel links get redirected to the new one from Microsoft.
But I found this...
"Havok's Intel® sponsored free binary-only PC download can be used during development to evaluate, prototype, and commercially release any PC game. There are some basic licensing rules to follow:
PC titles sold for a retail value of less than $10.00 USD do not require a Havok distribution license to be executed.
PC titles sold for a retail value of more than $10.00 USD or more do require a Havok license to be executed but at no additional cost."
Quoted from http://mmmovania.blogspot.com/2014/03/havok-physics-engine-tutorial-series.html
EDIT: Intel link via webarchive http://web.archive.org/web/20141123071009/https://software.intel.com/sites/havok/en/
So it seems that it wasn't free, then Intel bought it and made it free and now it's not free again :(
You'd think that Microsoft would make it free and dx12 exclusive, to draw developers to their latest DirectX.
The old Intel links get redirected to the new one from Microsoft.
But I found this...
"Havok's Intel® sponsored free binary-only PC download can be used during development to evaluate, prototype, and commercially release any PC game. There are some basic licensing rules to follow:
PC titles sold for a retail value of less than $10.00 USD do not require a Havok distribution license to be executed.
PC titles sold for a retail value of more than $10.00 USD or more do require a Havok license to be executed but at no additional cost."
That's cool. I wonder what the licensing terms were. % gross income most likely, which would be the fairest way to go about it. More importantly, I wonder how it stacks up against M$'s licensing terms.
The great thing about Havok was that it was universal and worked on the CPU. If it can be put on separate threads altogether, combined with DX12, games might actually start taking advantage of multi-core systems. Future games might actually look spectacular.
I wonder what else is needed before games come out with full physics animation, where character movements are dictated by physical events such as a bullet tearing through a body and its actual effect on the body itself, rather than a predefined script...
That's cool. I wonder what the licensing terms were. % gross income most likely, which would be the fairest way to go about it. More importantly, I wonder how it stacks up against M$'s licensing terms.
The great thing about Havok was that it was universal and worked on the CPU. If it can be put on separate threads altogether, combined with DX12, games might actually start taking advantage of multi-core systems. Future games might actually look spectacular.
I wonder what else is needed before games come out with full physics animation, where character movements are dictated by physical events such as a bullet tearing through a body and its actual effect on the body itself, rather than a predefined script...
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
The way I read it, it was free from Intel for PC games, but they charged for console releases. If the PC game was more than $10, you were required to get a license, but at no additional cost.
I took a look at a few other old PhysX Engines.
Bullet, is still actively being worked on, Grand Theft Auto 5 uses it.
Bullet 2.83 was released in May 2015 and they had a course at SIGGRAPH 2015.
http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/
Newton is still actively being worked on by the look of the forums, but it the only game I see that it was recently used in was Soma.
http://newtondynamics.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12
ODE is no longer being developed
http://ode.org/
The way I read it, it was free from Intel for PC games, but they charged for console releases. If the PC game was more than $10, you were required to get a license, but at no additional cost.
I took a look at a few other old PhysX Engines.
Bullet, is still actively being worked on, Grand Theft Auto 5 uses it.
Bullet 2.83 was released in May 2015 and they had a course at SIGGRAPH 2015.
[quote="andysonofbob"]Thanks for the links.
I am debating selling both 670s or just one and keeping the other for PhysX. It looks like most listed games are fairly old.
Prolly sell both![/quote]
A 670 is a decent card for PhysX, and you can barely get anything for it. If you are going to go single card for the GPU, I think this would still be a great use of that 670 for the games that support it. It's not going to be used all the time, but when it is working it will really help.
Also, NVidia is notorious for not keeping stuff up to date- I doubt that list of PhysX games is complete. Maybe this list is better, maybe not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support
Since it works in Witcher3, I think that alone is enough reason to keep a dedicated 670, unless you plan to SLI your next cards.
I am debating selling both 670s or just one and keeping the other for PhysX. It looks like most listed games are fairly old.
Prolly sell both!
A 670 is a decent card for PhysX, and you can barely get anything for it. If you are going to go single card for the GPU, I think this would still be a great use of that 670 for the games that support it. It's not going to be used all the time, but when it is working it will really help.
Witcher 3? GTA5?
Thanks!
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
But I wonder if PhysX will soon be a thing of the past, now that Microsoft has purchased the "Havoc" Engine/Company from Intel back in October or will it drive developers to PhysX if Microsoft is too heavy handed? Havok founded in 1998 was acquired by Intel in 2007.
"Havok will not be limited to Microsoft exclusively. “We will continue to license Havok’s technology to the broad AAA games industry," a representative told IGN. "This also means that we will continue to license Havok’s technology to run across various game consoles including Sony and Nintendo.”
"As we welcome Havok to the Microsoft family, we will continue to work with developers to create great gaming experiences, and continue to license Havok’s development tools to partners. We believe that Havok is a fantastic addition to Microsoft’s existing tools and platform components for developers, including DirectX 12, Visual Studio and Microsoft Azure."
"Part of this innovation will include building the most complete cloud service, which we’ve just started to show through games like “Crackdown 3.”
Just say "NO" to the Cloud!
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/649502/physx/detailed-testing-of-a-dedicated-physx-setup-with-charts/
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/havok-fx-improves-physical-effects,29304.html
I am debating selling both 670s or just one and keeping the other for PhysX. It looks like most listed games are fairly old.
Prolly sell both!
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
You can check also Volna Iskra Test
Ryzen 1700X 3.9GHz | Asrock X370 Taichi | 16GB G.Skill
GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 850W EVGA P2 | Win7x64
Asus VG278HR | Panasonic TX-58EX750B 4K Active 3D
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
3D vision scales superbly with SLI. Unfortunately, PhysX is loaded only onto one card.
For example, this means that while one card can be running at 100% load: at 50% on graphics and 50% on PhysX, the other card will only scale to 50% graphics and stop right there. This means that both GPUs will only be utilised at 50% max (in this example).
In gaming, this translates to the minimum frame rate suffering heavily.
As soon as you have a dedicated solution, the GPU's can go back to BOTH handling 100% of the graphics load. This means that you will get a dramatically increased minimum FPS, as shown by Volna's tests.
PhysX is just not designed for multi GPU use. And it is nVidia only, which makes it toxic as no game dev wants to invest R&D on something that only some of the gamer base will use. Most medium to low end nVidia users will even disable it just because it is such a performance hog.
I believe Havok used to be free for developers? MS are now going to try and monetise it. Expect only AAA titles to support it as MS say - the smaller devs will not be abe to afford the license fees.
It doesn't look like Physics in games has much of a future unless it is given and encouraged as apart of open tools or built intrinsically as part of game engines.
It's a shame really. When done right, Physics in games do look amazing. It's Physics effects in games are what make them fun and satisfying. No-one wants to see the same scripted death animation for the thousandth time. We want it to be dynamic.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I had to give up on SLI. In certain games it would start out awesome, then the FPS would slowly drop to below the FPS of one card!
I think it was a heat problem but IDK. Annoying though!
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
I don't think it was free, but I've really no idea.
On the Havoc page now it says....
AAA Development
Full Source, full customization, full control
For teams requiring the ability to customize the SDK, Havok offers full source licenses for Havok Physics, Destruction, Cloth, AI, Animation Studio, Script and the Vision Engine. With over 500 games powered by Havok middleware, this is the leading licensing choice for AAA developers.
EMERGING TEAMS AND STUDIOS
Start using Havok today via the Strike Program
The Havok Strike Program allows smaller budget teams and projects to take advantage of Havok’s industry leading middleware and support through individually negotiated licensing terms.
Quoted from http://www.havok.com/havok-sales/
This article suggests that it was completely free...
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/02/22/havok_physics_goes_free/1
I think game studios will be less inclined than even before to use it now :(
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
But I found this...
"Havok's Intel® sponsored free binary-only PC download can be used during development to evaluate, prototype, and commercially release any PC game. There are some basic licensing rules to follow:
PC titles sold for a retail value of less than $10.00 USD do not require a Havok distribution license to be executed.
PC titles sold for a retail value of more than $10.00 USD or more do require a Havok license to be executed but at no additional cost."
Quoted from http://mmmovania.blogspot.com/2014/03/havok-physics-engine-tutorial-series.html
EDIT: Intel link via webarchive http://web.archive.org/web/20141123071009/https://software.intel.com/sites/havok/en/
So it seems that it wasn't free, then Intel bought it and made it free and now it's not free again :(
You'd think that Microsoft would make it free and dx12 exclusive, to draw developers to their latest DirectX.
The great thing about Havok was that it was universal and worked on the CPU. If it can be put on separate threads altogether, combined with DX12, games might actually start taking advantage of multi-core systems. Future games might actually look spectacular.
I wonder what else is needed before games come out with full physics animation, where character movements are dictated by physical events such as a bullet tearing through a body and its actual effect on the body itself, rather than a predefined script...
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I took a look at a few other old PhysX Engines.
Bullet, is still actively being worked on, Grand Theft Auto 5 uses it.
Bullet 2.83 was released in May 2015 and they had a course at SIGGRAPH 2015.
http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/
Newton is still actively being worked on by the look of the forums, but it the only game I see that it was recently used in was Soma.
http://newtondynamics.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12
ODE is no longer being developed
http://ode.org/
A 670 is a decent card for PhysX, and you can barely get anything for it. If you are going to go single card for the GPU, I think this would still be a great use of that 670 for the games that support it. It's not going to be used all the time, but when it is working it will really help.
Also, NVidia is notorious for not keeping stuff up to date- I doubt that list of PhysX games is complete. Maybe this list is better, maybe not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support
Since it works in Witcher3, I think that alone is enough reason to keep a dedicated 670, unless you plan to SLI your next cards.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers