Euclideon
Something interesting. Its actually old news. It might be a threat to nVidia and AMD. This could put an end to the high-end hardware demand in gaming. Still a baby learning to crawl but with a few billion dollars I believe this is the future. More recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uYkbXlgUCw#t=888.241 Shared in 2011. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/499722/the-geforce-lounge/unlimited-detail-real-time-rendering-technology-our-future-gaming-graphic-/1/ I'm sure Google might put this to some good use. Who doesn't like visiting places Google earth's panoramas?
Something interesting. Its actually old news. It might be a threat to nVidia and AMD. This could put an end to the high-end hardware demand in gaming. Still a baby learning to crawl but with a few billion dollars I believe this is the future.

More recently:
#t=888.241

Shared in 2011.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/499722/the-geforce-lounge/unlimited-detail-real-time-rendering-technology-our-future-gaming-graphic-/1/


I'm sure Google might put this to some good use. Who doesn't like visiting places Google earth's panoramas?

#1
Posted 07/12/2017 04:38 PM   
I've been trying to keep my fingers crossed for this since I heard about it. Had some problems at work since I need to use my hands. Decided to cross my balls instead to keep up the hope. Very painful. But worth it.
I've been trying to keep my fingers crossed for this since I heard about it. Had some problems at work since I need to use my hands. Decided to cross my balls instead to keep up the hope. Very painful. But worth it.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#2
Posted 07/12/2017 06:50 PM   
Lol xD Hopefully by the time we retire all our gamimg fantacies will be a reality. Just like I waited 5 years for 3d Vsion this might also take some time to mature. Im planning a trip to Australia December 2018. Will be awesome to go see their latest achievements by then. Glad when I see people expand the boundaries. Cant see how this will turn out a fad. But its like someone commented, this is bound to storage. Seems like their main challenge will be this. So instead of having all the data on your own system you might need to have access to a data base wherever to enjoy whatever. Dont know the specifics but one game could get as big as a terabyte. Not something anyone would enjoy downloading. But yeah, we will have to wait and see.
Lol xD
Hopefully by the time we retire all our gamimg fantacies will be a reality. Just like I waited 5 years for 3d Vsion this might also take some time to mature.

Im planning a trip to Australia December 2018. Will be awesome to go see their latest achievements by then. Glad when I see people expand the boundaries.

Cant see how this will turn out a fad. But its like someone commented, this is bound to storage. Seems like their main challenge will be this. So instead of having all the data on your own system you might need to have access to a data base wherever to enjoy whatever.

Dont know the specifics but one game could get as big as a terabyte. Not something anyone would enjoy downloading. But yeah, we will have to wait and see.

#3
Posted 07/12/2017 07:53 PM   
The storage issue reminds me of ID software's Rage and the ID Tech 5 engine. John Carmack spent a lot of time developing his virtual-texture system that allowed using unique textures for every triangle in the game without overloading the GPU memory by streaming in real time only the necessary information. The technology worked but in the end, the game they created weighed multi-Terabytes and was unpublishable because no BluRay in the world could hold that much data. The final product had to use significantly reduced texture resolution in order to fit a Dual layer DVD and the low resolution textures were clearly visible. It's sad because the artists did the game in high resolution and the engine was capable of handling the resolution with the exact same performance... as long as you were inside ID's building and streamed the game data through their LAN. It looks like games made with Euclideon's system would face the same type of storage issues. But the storage issue doesn't mean the end of their technology. It's just that they have not spent much time on aggressive ways to reduce the storage size since their primary goal is rendering massive point cloud data for the geospatial industry. If they were to develop games in a more conventional way, by designing art specifically in the goal of easily compressible geometry and 3D textures from the start, they could perfectly design algorithms capable of compressing a game world to an acceptable file size.
The storage issue reminds me of ID software's Rage and the ID Tech 5 engine.
John Carmack spent a lot of time developing his virtual-texture system that allowed using unique textures for every triangle in the game without overloading the GPU memory by streaming in real time only the necessary information.
The technology worked but in the end, the game they created weighed multi-Terabytes and was unpublishable because no BluRay in the world could hold that much data.

The final product had to use significantly reduced texture resolution in order to fit a Dual layer DVD and the low resolution textures were clearly visible.
It's sad because the artists did the game in high resolution and the engine was capable of handling the resolution with the exact same performance... as long as you were inside ID's building and streamed the game data through their LAN.


It looks like games made with Euclideon's system would face the same type of storage issues.
But the storage issue doesn't mean the end of their technology. It's just that they have not spent much time on aggressive ways to reduce the storage size since their primary goal is rendering massive point cloud data for the geospatial industry.
If they were to develop games in a more conventional way, by designing art specifically in the goal of easily compressible geometry and 3D textures from the start, they could perfectly design algorithms capable of compressing a game world to an acceptable file size.

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#4
Posted 07/12/2017 10:09 PM   
The storage problem might not be such a big issue in the future. Nowadays everything is moving in a an online direction. From groceries to lawnmowers. Some stuff could still be done the old fashioned way, with a little bit of a twist. All they need to do is keep a data base at the gaming shops of their products for customers. You go there with an external and copy it. One of the videos showed how they ran a project right from the memory stick without any lag. So running a game through an external will be possible. You see, we might be moving back to the era where you played games through cartridges. =)
The storage problem might not be such a big issue in the future. Nowadays everything is moving in a an online direction. From groceries to lawnmowers. Some stuff could still be done the old fashioned way, with a little bit of a twist. All they need to do is keep a data base at the gaming shops of their products for customers. You go there with an external and copy it. One of the videos showed how they ran a project right from the memory stick without any lag. So running a game through an external will be possible. You see, we might be moving back to the era where you played games through cartridges. =)

#5
Posted 07/13/2017 06:45 AM   
Storage isn't free. I don't see people buying brand new 20TB hard drives just to play one game, and having to wipe their drives and go to the store every time they want to switch games. The Euclideon tech can be streamed in real time even on poor connections. At the moment, it looks quite ugly while the data loads since the software doesn't have any predictive system to pre-load the data of where the player will be in the next few seconds. https://youtu.be/Irf-HJ4fBls?t=11m34s It's nothing new. We've seen people complaining about early Unreal Engine 3 games and ID's Rage loading textures late when they were first released. This isn't a limit of the tech, it's just because the tech is young and the proper algorithms have't been implemented yet. But even with a fully working tech, there is still a financial limit. Bandwidth may be cheap, but it isn't free. Currently game studios are fine investing tens of GB per player for free2play games in the hope that less than 10% will ever spend a single dollar in the shop. That investment isn't going to work if you make it a thousand times bigger. Plus there is also the latency issue of competition multi-player games sky-rocketing if you're simultaneously downloading multi-MBps of game data while playing. It would be much better if the game was able to finish downloading quickly and be able to fully run locally. There will always be significant interest in being able to compress the game data into tiny packages. Conventional polygon+texture rendering has a distinct advantage since it is based on the idea of re-using the same data (textures) over and over to save memory. The Euclideon point cloud tech will have to find ways to emulate this re-using of data to save space in order to be more commercially attractive for games.
Storage isn't free.

I don't see people buying brand new 20TB hard drives just to play one game, and having to wipe their drives and go to the store every time they want to switch games.

The Euclideon tech can be streamed in real time even on poor connections. At the moment, it looks quite ugly while the data loads since the software doesn't have any predictive system to pre-load the data of where the player will be in the next few seconds. https://youtu.be/Irf-HJ4fBls?t=11m34s

It's nothing new. We've seen people complaining about early Unreal Engine 3 games and ID's Rage loading textures late when they were first released.
This isn't a limit of the tech, it's just because the tech is young and the proper algorithms have't been implemented yet.

But even with a fully working tech, there is still a financial limit. Bandwidth may be cheap, but it isn't free.
Currently game studios are fine investing tens of GB per player for free2play games in the hope that less than 10% will ever spend a single dollar in the shop. That investment isn't going to work if you make it a thousand times bigger.
Plus there is also the latency issue of competition multi-player games sky-rocketing if you're simultaneously downloading multi-MBps of game data while playing.
It would be much better if the game was able to finish downloading quickly and be able to fully run locally.

There will always be significant interest in being able to compress the game data into tiny packages.
Conventional polygon+texture rendering has a distinct advantage since it is based on the idea of re-using the same data (textures) over and over to save memory.

The Euclideon point cloud tech will have to find ways to emulate this re-using of data to save space in order to be more commercially attractive for games.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#6
Posted 07/13/2017 10:00 AM   
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]Storage isn't free. I don't see people buying brand new 20TB hard drives just to play one game, and having to wipe their drives and go to the store every time they want to switch games.[/quote] Quite true. But keep in mind that storage is one pc component which always keeps its value. My current rig have a hard drive from the very first rig I built. My oldest hard drive which I still use is a 12 year old 250GB. You could never have too much storage or backup. So storage is always good investment when it comes to PC components. Everything else needs to be replaced quite often as engines advance. With this new technology you could remove your expensive hardware from the list. Especially everything that's needed for a proper VR experience. I currently have about 30 games installed and only play about 10% of these. How often do we stick to one game for a long time? So I get what you're saying. They will have to keep it realistic and convenient. [quote="BlackSharkfr"]There will always be significant interest in being able to compress the game data into tiny packages.[/quote] This will definitely be advantageous.
BlackSharkfr said:Storage isn't free.

I don't see people buying brand new 20TB hard drives just to play one game, and having to wipe their drives and go to the store every time they want to switch games.


Quite true. But keep in mind that storage is one pc component which always keeps its value. My current rig have a hard drive from the very first rig I built. My oldest hard drive which I still use is a 12 year old 250GB. You could never have too much storage or backup. So storage is always good investment when it comes to PC components. Everything else needs to be replaced quite often as engines advance. With this new technology you could remove your expensive hardware from the list. Especially everything that's needed for a proper VR experience.

I currently have about 30 games installed and only play about 10% of these. How often do we stick to one game for a long time? So I get what you're saying. They will have to keep it realistic and convenient.

BlackSharkfr said:There will always be significant interest in being able to compress the game data into tiny packages.


This will definitely be advantageous.

#7
Posted 07/13/2017 11:04 AM   
There will always be demand for GPU shaders. Physics, shadows, lighting, effects,... if anything, we will need even more GPU power so its realistic. Tech will be very efficient. Games might not show it because they are made in couple monhts by couple guys, but bruce himself - I ASSUME - is very efficient and demands alot,... maybe too much. Pushing the tech so we can use it in games and other industries.
There will always be demand for GPU shaders. Physics, shadows, lighting, effects,... if anything, we will need even more GPU power so its realistic.

Tech will be very efficient. Games might not show it because they are made in couple monhts by couple guys, but bruce himself - I ASSUME - is very efficient and demands alot,... maybe too much. Pushing the tech so we can use it in games and other industries.

#8
Posted 07/24/2017 08:43 AM   
I wonder if you could bump up the display resolution with this tech a ton at little cost of FPS. That would be cool. It would make all those individual pieces of gravel for example worth while.
I wonder if you could bump up the display resolution with this tech a ton at little cost of FPS. That would be cool. It would make all those individual pieces of gravel for example worth while.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#9
Posted 07/24/2017 06:09 PM   
Given the information available publicly, Euclideon's processing power grows proportional to resolution. 5 years ago, Bruce gave a demo running the tech at 1024x768 30fps running on a laptop, just using the CPU, and a dataset stored on the hard drive (the laptop's slow 5400rpm drive). You can safely say there is a significant room for resolution increase.
Given the information available publicly, Euclideon's processing power grows proportional to resolution.
5 years ago, Bruce gave a demo running the tech at 1024x768 30fps running on a laptop, just using the CPU, and a dataset stored on the hard drive (the laptop's slow 5400rpm drive).

You can safely say there is a significant room for resolution increase.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#10
Posted 07/25/2017 07:14 AM   
Update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjPWk0UhKDQ
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#11
Posted 08/23/2017 10:44 PM   
Interesting videos, thanks for sharing. Edit:It seems that they have had a Holoverse in Australia for almost 2 years. https://www.holoverse.com.au/ This video doesn't look very impressive, but I'd imagine that it's much better in person when actually participating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEjJbK90zx0
Interesting videos, thanks for sharing.

Edit:It seems that they have had a Holoverse in Australia for almost 2 years.

https://www.holoverse.com.au/

This video doesn't look very impressive, but I'd imagine that it's much better in person when actually participating.

#12
Posted 04/07/2018 04:13 PM   
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