Let's make a giant list of all NVIDIA 3D Vision failures.
  6 / 9    
[quote name='Likay' date='21 March 2011 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1300725009' post='1211144']
Thanks! Getting and adding 91.47 to my little "archive". I didn't have this one. :D
[/quote]
I use the .xml profile from 163.75 though, gives you a little more speed and compatibility makes a difference for a game like Prey. Of course, the alternative is to use 163.75+162.50 throughout. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
[quote name='Likay' date='21 March 2011 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1300725009' post='1211144']

Thanks! Getting and adding 91.47 to my little "archive". I didn't have this one. :D



I use the .xml profile from 163.75 though, gives you a little more speed and compatibility makes a difference for a game like Prey. Of course, the alternative is to use 163.75+162.50 throughout. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#76
Posted 03/21/2011 08:47 PM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='21 March 2011 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1300739528' post='1211305']
Hi

I use Steam games all the time and dont have any compatibiltiy problems (I have about 75 games purchased via Steam).

Can you get me a list of games that dont work, and what the EXE name is on your hard drive of those games?

Thanks.
[/quote]
I believe he's referring to the issue in the NVCP where installed Steam games are not detected in the list of compatible games from Stereoscopic 3D > View compatibility with games > Show only installed games. It seems to be the same problem as Steam games not being detected from Manage 3D Settings > Program Settings > Show only programs found on this computer. I've posted on this in the past as I'm not sure how the NVCP detects game installs, if its straight from Windows Installer registry entries or what, but it would be nice if we were able to manually add games to this list or to designate game paths or Steam install paths so that the NVCP actually remembers what games are installed. It would also be nice if the NVCP displayed more than 10 games at a time, or even better yet, if it allowed a search box that took you to the game names as you typed them in similar to any modern search engine might.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='21 March 2011 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1300739528' post='1211305']

Hi



I use Steam games all the time and dont have any compatibiltiy problems (I have about 75 games purchased via Steam).



Can you get me a list of games that dont work, and what the EXE name is on your hard drive of those games?



Thanks.



I believe he's referring to the issue in the NVCP where installed Steam games are not detected in the list of compatible games from Stereoscopic 3D > View compatibility with games > Show only installed games. It seems to be the same problem as Steam games not being detected from Manage 3D Settings > Program Settings > Show only programs found on this computer. I've posted on this in the past as I'm not sure how the NVCP detects game installs, if its straight from Windows Installer registry entries or what, but it would be nice if we were able to manually add games to this list or to designate game paths or Steam install paths so that the NVCP actually remembers what games are installed. It would also be nice if the NVCP displayed more than 10 games at a time, or even better yet, if it allowed a search box that took you to the game names as you typed them in similar to any modern search engine might.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#77
Posted 03/21/2011 10:12 PM   
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1300745527' post='1211368']
I believe he's referring to the issue in the NVCP where installed Steam games are not detected in the list of compatible games from Stereoscopic 3D > View compatibility with games > Show only installed games. It seems to be the same problem as Steam games not being detected from Manage 3D Settings > Program Settings > Show only programs found on this computer. I've posted on this in the past as I'm not sure how the NVCP detects game installs, if its straight from Windows Installer registry entries or what, but it would be nice if we were able to manually add games to this list or to designate game paths or Steam install paths so that the NVCP actually remembers what games are installed. It would also be nice if the NVCP displayed more than 10 games at a time, or even better yet, if it allowed a search box that took you to the game names as you typed them in similar to any modern search engine might.
[/quote]

Ok that is the bug that is a known issue. I will bug the team about it.
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1300745527' post='1211368']

I believe he's referring to the issue in the NVCP where installed Steam games are not detected in the list of compatible games from Stereoscopic 3D > View compatibility with games > Show only installed games. It seems to be the same problem as Steam games not being detected from Manage 3D Settings > Program Settings > Show only programs found on this computer. I've posted on this in the past as I'm not sure how the NVCP detects game installs, if its straight from Windows Installer registry entries or what, but it would be nice if we were able to manually add games to this list or to designate game paths or Steam install paths so that the NVCP actually remembers what games are installed. It would also be nice if the NVCP displayed more than 10 games at a time, or even better yet, if it allowed a search box that took you to the game names as you typed them in similar to any modern search engine might.





Ok that is the bug that is a known issue. I will bug the team about it.

#78
Posted 03/21/2011 10:15 PM   
[quote name='jenson' date='21 March 2011 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1300740295' post='1211318']
(I attached the screenshot)

A user on these forums made a 3rd party app that included a 3d stereo mouse pointer.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=32771

As you can see he made a stereo 3d cursor. From what I hear it WORKED at the expense of a high performance hit. But at the driver level implementing such a feature should be far more efficient as proven with nvidia's laser cross hair which functions VERY similar to a stereo 3d mouse cursor (statically in the middle vs dynamically move around).

My question is why a random user from the community can make a functioning 3d mouse cursor but NVIDIA cannot?

I wonder if NVIDIA thinks it's a waste of time because of the in game image tied to the mouse cursor, worried it might get in the way? The counter argument is that the in game mouse image can be made transparent with a 3rd party app or the .CUR files can be found and deleted from within the games folder.
[/quote]
From Lcountach's reply and glancing at the app itself, you seem to be overlooking the possibility Nvidia did make a (semi)functional 3D mouse cursor at the driver level heh. All that app does is flag the 3D cursor feature as on and enable it in the driver or registry, so saying a random user from the community was able to make a functional 3D mouse is about as accurate as saying a random user from the community wrote custom drivers that enabled SSAA modes for GeForce hardware.

In any case, I suspect Nvidia's experimental 3D cursor implementation probably isn't exposed to the end-user due to significant compatibility and performance issues they felt were best left alone.
[quote name='jenson' date='21 March 2011 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1300740295' post='1211318']

(I attached the screenshot)



A user on these forums made a 3rd party app that included a 3d stereo mouse pointer.



http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=32771



As you can see he made a stereo 3d cursor. From what I hear it WORKED at the expense of a high performance hit. But at the driver level implementing such a feature should be far more efficient as proven with nvidia's laser cross hair which functions VERY similar to a stereo 3d mouse cursor (statically in the middle vs dynamically move around).



My question is why a random user from the community can make a functioning 3d mouse cursor but NVIDIA cannot?



I wonder if NVIDIA thinks it's a waste of time because of the in game image tied to the mouse cursor, worried it might get in the way? The counter argument is that the in game mouse image can be made transparent with a 3rd party app or the .CUR files can be found and deleted from within the games folder.



From Lcountach's reply and glancing at the app itself, you seem to be overlooking the possibility Nvidia did make a (semi)functional 3D mouse cursor at the driver level heh. All that app does is flag the 3D cursor feature as on and enable it in the driver or registry, so saying a random user from the community was able to make a functional 3D mouse is about as accurate as saying a random user from the community wrote custom drivers that enabled SSAA modes for GeForce hardware.



In any case, I suspect Nvidia's experimental 3D cursor implementation probably isn't exposed to the end-user due to significant compatibility and performance issues they felt were best left alone.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#79
Posted 03/21/2011 10:22 PM   
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1300746166' post='1211377']
From Lcountach's reply and glancing at the app itself, you seem to be overlooking the possibility Nvidia did make a (semi)functional 3D mouse cursor at the driver level heh. All that app does is flag the 3D cursor feature as on and enable it in the driver or registry, so saying a random user from the community was able to make a functional 3D mouse is about as accurate as saying a random user from the community wrote custom drivers that enabled SSAA modes for GeForce hardware.

In any case, I suspect Nvidia's experimental 3D cursor implementation probably isn't exposed to the end-user due to significant compatibility and performance issues they felt were best left alone.
[/quote]

That's a possibility. But I wouldn't have put it past Dragon to figure it out, he was a pretty smart guy.
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1300746166' post='1211377']

From Lcountach's reply and glancing at the app itself, you seem to be overlooking the possibility Nvidia did make a (semi)functional 3D mouse cursor at the driver level heh. All that app does is flag the 3D cursor feature as on and enable it in the driver or registry, so saying a random user from the community was able to make a functional 3D mouse is about as accurate as saying a random user from the community wrote custom drivers that enabled SSAA modes for GeForce hardware.



In any case, I suspect Nvidia's experimental 3D cursor implementation probably isn't exposed to the end-user due to significant compatibility and performance issues they felt were best left alone.





That's a possibility. But I wouldn't have put it past Dragon to figure it out, he was a pretty smart guy.

AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision

#80
Posted 03/22/2011 06:32 AM   
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1300746166' post='1211377']
From Lcountach's reply and glancing at the app itself, you seem to be overlooking the possibility Nvidia did make a (semi)functional 3D mouse cursor at the driver level heh. All that app does is flag the 3D cursor feature as on and enable it in the driver or registry, so saying a random user from the community was able to make a functional 3D mouse is about as accurate as saying a random user from the community wrote custom drivers that enabled SSAA modes for GeForce hardware.

In any case, I suspect Nvidia's experimental 3D cursor implementation probably isn't exposed to the end-user due to significant compatibility and performance issues they felt were best left alone.
[/quote]

Yea I think andrew confirmed this in another thread.

That means it's possible to have a 3d stereo mouse cursor and nvidia did try before. They attempted it in 2006-2007 it looks like. It's 2011 now and hardware is more advanced. if the stereo 3d cursor caused too much of a performance hit back then, maybe a gtx 470 can handle it?
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1300746166' post='1211377']

From Lcountach's reply and glancing at the app itself, you seem to be overlooking the possibility Nvidia did make a (semi)functional 3D mouse cursor at the driver level heh. All that app does is flag the 3D cursor feature as on and enable it in the driver or registry, so saying a random user from the community was able to make a functional 3D mouse is about as accurate as saying a random user from the community wrote custom drivers that enabled SSAA modes for GeForce hardware.



In any case, I suspect Nvidia's experimental 3D cursor implementation probably isn't exposed to the end-user due to significant compatibility and performance issues they felt were best left alone.





Yea I think andrew confirmed this in another thread.



That means it's possible to have a 3d stereo mouse cursor and nvidia did try before. They attempted it in 2006-2007 it looks like. It's 2011 now and hardware is more advanced. if the stereo 3d cursor caused too much of a performance hit back then, maybe a gtx 470 can handle it?

#81
Posted 03/22/2011 06:41 AM   
[quote name='jenson' date='22 March 2011 - 01:41 AM' timestamp='1300776087' post='1211538']
Yea I think andrew confirmed this in another thread.

That means it's possible to have a 3d stereo mouse cursor and nvidia did try before. They attempted it in 2006-2007 it looks like. It's 2011 now and hardware is more advanced. if the stereo 3d cursor caused too much of a performance hit back then, maybe a gtx 470 can handle it?
[/quote]

Hi

I never confirmed we worked on a 3D cursor Jenson, you must have misunderstood my response.

I've replied to this thread many times that a 3D cursor is simply not possible. While you may try to do one and get it working, it may result in 1fps. You may consider that "possible" but its not functional or useful.
[quote name='jenson' date='22 March 2011 - 01:41 AM' timestamp='1300776087' post='1211538']

Yea I think andrew confirmed this in another thread.



That means it's possible to have a 3d stereo mouse cursor and nvidia did try before. They attempted it in 2006-2007 it looks like. It's 2011 now and hardware is more advanced. if the stereo 3d cursor caused too much of a performance hit back then, maybe a gtx 470 can handle it?





Hi



I never confirmed we worked on a 3D cursor Jenson, you must have misunderstood my response.



I've replied to this thread many times that a 3D cursor is simply not possible. While you may try to do one and get it working, it may result in 1fps. You may consider that "possible" but its not functional or useful.

#82
Posted 03/22/2011 04:09 PM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='22 March 2011 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1300810154' post='1211695']
Hi

I never confirmed we worked on a 3D cursor Jenson, you must have misunderstood my response.

I've replied to this thread many times that a 3D cursor is simply not possible. While you may try to do one and get it working, it may result in 1fps. You may consider that "possible" but its not functional or useful.
[/quote]

Ok then, his 3rd party app was a hack job like I suspected, you've confirmed this. Unless you implement the stereo mouse cursor at the driver level you're going to cause a HUGE fps hit by injecting yourself into the games code.

Let's move on to a different topic. My solution for the stereo mouse cursor.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for you and your devs to comprehend. Listen very carefully and please respond back with programming logic, not just a "we can't do it". If you disprove my theory with programming logic, I'll drop it. Here is my logic, PLEASE try to understand it.

[size="3"][b]GOAL: To prove that the laser crosshair can handle following the mouse around with less of a performance hit than being statically centered in an a first person shooter environment.[/b][/size]

FACT: The existing laser crosshair is in the middle of the screen.

FACT: A user plays a first person shooter in which he moves his mouse around, which then causes the camera to move around very fast.

FACT: As objects pass under the laser crosshair at this highly rapid rate these objects are constantly being tested to determine proper stereo separation for your laser crosshair.

FACT: First person shooter gamers move the mouse around with more intensity than users moving the mouse around in an RPG game.

THINK: If laser crosshair can handle the intensity of a gamer playing a first person shooter, then why wouldn't the laser crosshair be able to handle following the mouse around? Following the mouse around in an RPG is less intensive than the camera being whipped around rapidly in a first person shooter. [i]This isn't rocket science, why the hell can't you guys understand this? Hence, why I say you guys are not gamers.[/i]

CONCLUSION: [size="3"][b]There is more of a performance hit with the laser crosshair being used in an FPS game than it would experience in an RPG game.[/b][/size] Simply make the existing laser crosshair follow the damn mouse around and just observe the behavior, geez this should only take your devs like an hour, i'm not bs'ing you.

If you want I can call you on the phone and we'll go over it. First we'll fire up an FPS, then we'll fire up an RPG. I'll explain everything in a very polite manner! :) Then I'm sure you'll see how the laser crosshair can easily be used as a stereo mouse cursor.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='22 March 2011 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1300810154' post='1211695']

Hi



I never confirmed we worked on a 3D cursor Jenson, you must have misunderstood my response.



I've replied to this thread many times that a 3D cursor is simply not possible. While you may try to do one and get it working, it may result in 1fps. You may consider that "possible" but its not functional or useful.





Ok then, his 3rd party app was a hack job like I suspected, you've confirmed this. Unless you implement the stereo mouse cursor at the driver level you're going to cause a HUGE fps hit by injecting yourself into the games code.



Let's move on to a different topic. My solution for the stereo mouse cursor.



I don't understand why this is so difficult for you and your devs to comprehend. Listen very carefully and please respond back with programming logic, not just a "we can't do it". If you disprove my theory with programming logic, I'll drop it. Here is my logic, PLEASE try to understand it.



GOAL: To prove that the laser crosshair can handle following the mouse around with less of a performance hit than being statically centered in an a first person shooter environment.



FACT: The existing laser crosshair is in the middle of the screen.



FACT: A user plays a first person shooter in which he moves his mouse around, which then causes the camera to move around very fast.



FACT: As objects pass under the laser crosshair at this highly rapid rate these objects are constantly being tested to determine proper stereo separation for your laser crosshair.



FACT: First person shooter gamers move the mouse around with more intensity than users moving the mouse around in an RPG game.



THINK: If laser crosshair can handle the intensity of a gamer playing a first person shooter, then why wouldn't the laser crosshair be able to handle following the mouse around? Following the mouse around in an RPG is less intensive than the camera being whipped around rapidly in a first person shooter. This isn't rocket science, why the hell can't you guys understand this? Hence, why I say you guys are not gamers.



CONCLUSION: There is more of a performance hit with the laser crosshair being used in an FPS game than it would experience in an RPG game. Simply make the existing laser crosshair follow the damn mouse around and just observe the behavior, geez this should only take your devs like an hour, i'm not bs'ing you.



If you want I can call you on the phone and we'll go over it. First we'll fire up an FPS, then we'll fire up an RPG. I'll explain everything in a very polite manner! :) Then I'm sure you'll see how the laser crosshair can easily be used as a stereo mouse cursor.

#83
Posted 03/22/2011 05:26 PM   
jenson,

I hate to say it but I must repeat myself and what [b]Likay[/b] said. That tuning utility Dragon made is nothing more than a utility to easily toggle some registry entries for features already in the older XP generation of drivers. I have tested this extensively. I manually entered the settings using regedit and came up with the same results as the utility. In the case of the "Stereo Mouse Pointer" option it has. That simply adds (If not already in registry) the "StereoPointer" DWORD into the registry for the game of your choosing. It then just simply toggles the value between "0" and "1". On and Off basically.

Here is where it gets fun. The "StereoPointer" in the old XP drivers is tied directly to the "LaserSight". When the "StereoPointer" is active the "LaserSight" is off. Additionaly the "StereoPointer" responds to the CTRL+F12 command to toggle it on and off once the DWORD is set to "1" in the registry. I personally have never seen it work except for one game. Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean Online [url="http://piratesonline.go.com"]piratesonline[/url]. The "StereoPointer" works PERFECTLY in the pirates game including toggling on and off with CTRL+F12. This is only in XP mind you. On top of all that there is no measurable performance hit between using the "LaserSight" and the "StereoPointer". They are the same thing basically. One is just intended to follow the mouse. In all the games that don't work a 2nd generic looking pointer appears at the top of the screen and does not follow the mouse. I believe the reason Pirates works is because it uses the generic windows pointer from the OS instead of a spiffy ingame pointer with cool graphics. That is just a guess though. I have also read that WoW's pointer also works if you toggle the "Hardware Cursor" ingame.

If you feel so inclined to play around in the registry with our current 3D Vision implementation. I would suggest finding you favorite game under [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D\GameConfigs\YOUR_GAME and adding the DWORD "StereoPointer". If you toggle it between "0" and "1" you can activate the Laser Sight exactly the same way as if you used the "LaserSight" DWORD. There is still some leftover code in our current drivers from when NVidia experimented with a 3D pointer way back when.

It is obvious to conclude that NVidia did try to develop a 3D mouse pointer tied directly to the LaserSight. Read what [b]andrewf@nvidia[/b] said in his last post very carefully! He said "I never confirmed". What he also doesn't do in the post is deny they worked on it. I think they tried and failed for whatever reason. This kind of answer is what I was referring to when I said he answers with guarded responses and that he won't answer the hard questions. They don't want to be truly open with us. They will answer very carefully or not at all to the hard questions that might make them lose face.

Moving on, There is an alternative method to making a 3D Pointer. A competing 3D company iZ3D has an option in their drivers called "Separation Mode" what this does is allow the user to chose one of three options. Symmetric, Shift Left, and Shift Right. Symmetric is the display mode we are all used to. It is identical to the way NVidia displays their separation. Now the "Shift" modes in iZ3D's drivers allows you to shift only one eye when adjusting your separation strength. Why would you do that? Its simple, when you shift only one eye in 3D the other eye will always stay on target. Ingame no matter what your targeting method is, be it [b]Pointer[/b], Cross-hair, or Iron-sights one of those double imaged targeters created by the stereo separation will still be dead on target. It takes a bit of getting used to ignoring one of your two targeters BUT it does allow you to accurately function within the game.

Another FANTASTIC feature iZ3D also offers in their drivers is the OPTION to make 3 count them THREE preset Separation & Convergence setting saves for each game. I would call this feature ESENTIAL in any game where the camera changes often. With NVidia you need to completely re-adjust everything every time the camera changes. With iZ3D simply tap a key for your preset and the new camera is good to go. SERIOUSLY NVidia you NEED you give us this feature!
jenson,



I hate to say it but I must repeat myself and what Likay said. That tuning utility Dragon made is nothing more than a utility to easily toggle some registry entries for features already in the older XP generation of drivers. I have tested this extensively. I manually entered the settings using regedit and came up with the same results as the utility. In the case of the "Stereo Mouse Pointer" option it has. That simply adds (If not already in registry) the "StereoPointer" DWORD into the registry for the game of your choosing. It then just simply toggles the value between "0" and "1". On and Off basically.



Here is where it gets fun. The "StereoPointer" in the old XP drivers is tied directly to the "LaserSight". When the "StereoPointer" is active the "LaserSight" is off. Additionaly the "StereoPointer" responds to the CTRL+F12 command to toggle it on and off once the DWORD is set to "1" in the registry. I personally have never seen it work except for one game. Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean Online piratesonline. The "StereoPointer" works PERFECTLY in the pirates game including toggling on and off with CTRL+F12. This is only in XP mind you. On top of all that there is no measurable performance hit between using the "LaserSight" and the "StereoPointer". They are the same thing basically. One is just intended to follow the mouse. In all the games that don't work a 2nd generic looking pointer appears at the top of the screen and does not follow the mouse. I believe the reason Pirates works is because it uses the generic windows pointer from the OS instead of a spiffy ingame pointer with cool graphics. That is just a guess though. I have also read that WoW's pointer also works if you toggle the "Hardware Cursor" ingame.



If you feel so inclined to play around in the registry with our current 3D Vision implementation. I would suggest finding you favorite game under [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D\GameConfigs\YOUR_GAME and adding the DWORD "StereoPointer". If you toggle it between "0" and "1" you can activate the Laser Sight exactly the same way as if you used the "LaserSight" DWORD. There is still some leftover code in our current drivers from when NVidia experimented with a 3D pointer way back when.



It is obvious to conclude that NVidia did try to develop a 3D mouse pointer tied directly to the LaserSight. Read what andrewf@nvidia said in his last post very carefully! He said "I never confirmed". What he also doesn't do in the post is deny they worked on it. I think they tried and failed for whatever reason. This kind of answer is what I was referring to when I said he answers with guarded responses and that he won't answer the hard questions. They don't want to be truly open with us. They will answer very carefully or not at all to the hard questions that might make them lose face.



Moving on, There is an alternative method to making a 3D Pointer. A competing 3D company iZ3D has an option in their drivers called "Separation Mode" what this does is allow the user to chose one of three options. Symmetric, Shift Left, and Shift Right. Symmetric is the display mode we are all used to. It is identical to the way NVidia displays their separation. Now the "Shift" modes in iZ3D's drivers allows you to shift only one eye when adjusting your separation strength. Why would you do that? Its simple, when you shift only one eye in 3D the other eye will always stay on target. Ingame no matter what your targeting method is, be it Pointer, Cross-hair, or Iron-sights one of those double imaged targeters created by the stereo separation will still be dead on target. It takes a bit of getting used to ignoring one of your two targeters BUT it does allow you to accurately function within the game.



Another FANTASTIC feature iZ3D also offers in their drivers is the OPTION to make 3 count them THREE preset Separation & Convergence setting saves for each game. I would call this feature ESENTIAL in any game where the camera changes often. With NVidia you need to completely re-adjust everything every time the camera changes. With iZ3D simply tap a key for your preset and the new camera is good to go. SERIOUSLY NVidia you NEED you give us this feature!

#84
Posted 03/23/2011 05:54 AM   
[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']
jenson,

I hate to say it but I must repeat myself and what [b]Likay[/b] said. That tuning utility Dragon made is nothing more than a utility to easily toggle some registry entries for features already in the older XP generation of drivers. I have tested this extensively. I manually entered the settings using regedit and came up with the same results as the utility. In the case of the "Stereo Mouse Pointer" option it has. That simply adds (If not already in registry) the "StereoPointer" DWORD into the registry for the game of your choosing. It then just simply toggles the value between "0" and "1". On and Off basically.[/quote]

Aaah I see, I agree with you guys then wholeheartedly. The only reason I suspected anything more than a registry edit was the fact that dragons application asked you to specify an exe to run to start the game, this behavior is usually associated with injecting yourself into the process. I'll respond more to your other points. You have made some excellent discoveries here my friend! But why is Andrew denying the existence of the stereo mouse pointer? We're on NVIDIA's side here, they shouldn't hide stuff from us, we only want the best for us and nvidia. Maybe he didn't know and the devs are hiding things from him out of laziness, or maybe they are overworked and burned out.

[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']Here is where it gets fun. The "StereoPointer" in the old XP drivers is tied directly to the "LaserSight". [/quote]

Really? Hmmmm..

[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']
When the "StereoPointer" is active the "LaserSight" is off. Additionaly the "StereoPointer" responds to the CTRL+F12 command to toggle it on and off once the DWORD is set to "1" in the registry. I personally have never seen it work except for one game. Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean Online [url="http://piratesonline.go.com"]piratesonline[/url]. The "StereoPointer" works PERFECTLY in the pirates game including toggling on and off with CTRL+F12. This is only in XP mind you. On top of all that there is no measurable performance hit between using the "LaserSight" and the "StereoPointer". They are the same thing basically. One is just intended to follow the mouse. In all the games that don't work a 2nd generic looking pointer appears at the top of the screen and does not follow the mouse. I believe the reason Pirates works is because it uses the generic windows pointer from the OS instead of a spiffy ingame pointer with cool graphics. That is just a guess though. I have also read that WoW's pointer also works if you toggle the "Hardware Cursor" ingame.[/quote]

So they did try it at one point and it worked. But i'm curious as to why it would only work in one game and not others? But like you said you only saw it work in one game.

[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']If you feel so inclined to play around in the registry with our current 3D Vision implementation. I would suggest finding you favorite game under [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D\GameConfigs\YOUR_GAME and adding the DWORD "StereoPointer". If you toggle it between "0" and "1" you can activate the Laser Sight exactly the same way as if you used the "LaserSight" DWORD. There is still some leftover code in our current drivers from when NVidia experimented with a 3D pointer way back when.[/quote]

Hey man, good find here. I tried exactly what you said and low and behold the laser sight turned on by default when the game loaded by adding the DWORD stereopointer and setting it to 1 like you said. I'm shocked. Good find man. Slowly the pieces are all coming together. I wish we could just get a straight answer from NVIDIA.

[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']
It is obvious to conclude that NVidia did try to develop a 3D mouse pointer tied directly to the LaserSight. Read what [b]andrewf@nvidia[/b] said in his last post very carefully! He said "I never confirmed". What he also doesn't do in the post is deny they worked on it. I think they tried and failed for whatever reason. This kind of answer is what I was referring to when I said he answers with guarded responses and that he won't answer the hard questions. They don't want to be truly open with us. They will answer very carefully or not at all to the hard questions that might make them lose face.[/quote]

Well I hope that Andrew and NVIDIA realize that we're on their side. We bought their product. It shouldn't be about losing face. heheh. Still, I have to commend NVIDIA for trying to make a stereo mouse cursor. It seems they did try to tie the laser crosshair to the mouse but it didn't work out for some reason. I wish Andrew would tell us why it failed.

[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']
Moving on, There is an alternative method to making a 3D Pointer. A competing 3D company iZ3D has an option in their drivers called "Separation Mode" what this does is allow the user to chose one of three options. Symmetric, Shift Left, and Shift Right. Symmetric is the display mode we are all used to. It is identical to the way NVidia displays their separation. Now the "Shift" modes in iZ3D's drivers allows you to shift only one eye when adjusting your separation strength. Why would you do that? Its simple, when you shift only one eye in 3D the other eye will always stay on target. Ingame no matter what your targeting method is, be it [b]Pointer[/b], Cross-hair, or Iron-sights one of those double imaged targeters created by the stereo separation will still be dead on target. It takes a bit of getting used to ignoring one of your two targeters BUT it does allow you to accurately function within the game.[/quote]

Man I'm intrigued. From all my research though I still think NVIDIA is more successful simply because they have more financial support. But I can't deny that I'm intrigued by IZ3D. I have their forums bookmarked and always check it daily in case NVIDIA continues to do absolutely nothing new.

[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']
Another FANTASTIC feature iZ3D also offers in their drivers is the OPTION to make 3 count them THREE preset Separation & Convergence setting saves for each game. I would call this feature ESENTIAL in any game where the camera changes often. With NVidia you need to completely re-adjust everything every time the camera changes. With iZ3D simply tap a key for your preset and the new camera is good to go. SERIOUSLY NVidia you NEED you give us this feature!
[/quote]

I've been screaming for this feature for months but NVIDIA does nothing. They must be overworked and understaffed, there is no other reason why they shouldn't implement ease of use features like this. Man you are very resourceful. I strongly suggest you rant and rave on these forums bringing up every issue that NVIDIA needs to resolve. Pushing their limits may piss them off but ultimately they need to hear it. You are the man and have my respect good sir. :)

I wonder why NVIDIA left the stereopointer registry setting in their code? SLoppiness or maybe they intended on completing this feature one day? I hope for the latter.
[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']

jenson,



I hate to say it but I must repeat myself and what Likay said. That tuning utility Dragon made is nothing more than a utility to easily toggle some registry entries for features already in the older XP generation of drivers. I have tested this extensively. I manually entered the settings using regedit and came up with the same results as the utility. In the case of the "Stereo Mouse Pointer" option it has. That simply adds (If not already in registry) the "StereoPointer" DWORD into the registry for the game of your choosing. It then just simply toggles the value between "0" and "1". On and Off basically.



Aaah I see, I agree with you guys then wholeheartedly. The only reason I suspected anything more than a registry edit was the fact that dragons application asked you to specify an exe to run to start the game, this behavior is usually associated with injecting yourself into the process. I'll respond more to your other points. You have made some excellent discoveries here my friend! But why is Andrew denying the existence of the stereo mouse pointer? We're on NVIDIA's side here, they shouldn't hide stuff from us, we only want the best for us and nvidia. Maybe he didn't know and the devs are hiding things from him out of laziness, or maybe they are overworked and burned out.



[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']Here is where it gets fun. The "StereoPointer" in the old XP drivers is tied directly to the "LaserSight".



Really? Hmmmm..



[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']

When the "StereoPointer" is active the "LaserSight" is off. Additionaly the "StereoPointer" responds to the CTRL+F12 command to toggle it on and off once the DWORD is set to "1" in the registry. I personally have never seen it work except for one game. Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean Online piratesonline. The "StereoPointer" works PERFECTLY in the pirates game including toggling on and off with CTRL+F12. This is only in XP mind you. On top of all that there is no measurable performance hit between using the "LaserSight" and the "StereoPointer". They are the same thing basically. One is just intended to follow the mouse. In all the games that don't work a 2nd generic looking pointer appears at the top of the screen and does not follow the mouse. I believe the reason Pirates works is because it uses the generic windows pointer from the OS instead of a spiffy ingame pointer with cool graphics. That is just a guess though. I have also read that WoW's pointer also works if you toggle the "Hardware Cursor" ingame.



So they did try it at one point and it worked. But i'm curious as to why it would only work in one game and not others? But like you said you only saw it work in one game.



[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']If you feel so inclined to play around in the registry with our current 3D Vision implementation. I would suggest finding you favorite game under [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D\GameConfigs\YOUR_GAME and adding the DWORD "StereoPointer". If you toggle it between "0" and "1" you can activate the Laser Sight exactly the same way as if you used the "LaserSight" DWORD. There is still some leftover code in our current drivers from when NVidia experimented with a 3D pointer way back when.



Hey man, good find here. I tried exactly what you said and low and behold the laser sight turned on by default when the game loaded by adding the DWORD stereopointer and setting it to 1 like you said. I'm shocked. Good find man. Slowly the pieces are all coming together. I wish we could just get a straight answer from NVIDIA.



[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']

It is obvious to conclude that NVidia did try to develop a 3D mouse pointer tied directly to the LaserSight. Read what andrewf@nvidia said in his last post very carefully! He said "I never confirmed". What he also doesn't do in the post is deny they worked on it. I think they tried and failed for whatever reason. This kind of answer is what I was referring to when I said he answers with guarded responses and that he won't answer the hard questions. They don't want to be truly open with us. They will answer very carefully or not at all to the hard questions that might make them lose face.



Well I hope that Andrew and NVIDIA realize that we're on their side. We bought their product. It shouldn't be about losing face. heheh. Still, I have to commend NVIDIA for trying to make a stereo mouse cursor. It seems they did try to tie the laser crosshair to the mouse but it didn't work out for some reason. I wish Andrew would tell us why it failed.



[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']

Moving on, There is an alternative method to making a 3D Pointer. A competing 3D company iZ3D has an option in their drivers called "Separation Mode" what this does is allow the user to chose one of three options. Symmetric, Shift Left, and Shift Right. Symmetric is the display mode we are all used to. It is identical to the way NVidia displays their separation. Now the "Shift" modes in iZ3D's drivers allows you to shift only one eye when adjusting your separation strength. Why would you do that? Its simple, when you shift only one eye in 3D the other eye will always stay on target. Ingame no matter what your targeting method is, be it Pointer, Cross-hair, or Iron-sights one of those double imaged targeters created by the stereo separation will still be dead on target. It takes a bit of getting used to ignoring one of your two targeters BUT it does allow you to accurately function within the game.



Man I'm intrigued. From all my research though I still think NVIDIA is more successful simply because they have more financial support. But I can't deny that I'm intrigued by IZ3D. I have their forums bookmarked and always check it daily in case NVIDIA continues to do absolutely nothing new.



[quote name='LCountach' date='23 March 2011 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1300859640' post='1211942']

Another FANTASTIC feature iZ3D also offers in their drivers is the OPTION to make 3 count them THREE preset Separation & Convergence setting saves for each game. I would call this feature ESENTIAL in any game where the camera changes often. With NVidia you need to completely re-adjust everything every time the camera changes. With iZ3D simply tap a key for your preset and the new camera is good to go. SERIOUSLY NVidia you NEED you give us this feature!





I've been screaming for this feature for months but NVIDIA does nothing. They must be overworked and understaffed, there is no other reason why they shouldn't implement ease of use features like this. Man you are very resourceful. I strongly suggest you rant and rave on these forums bringing up every issue that NVIDIA needs to resolve. Pushing their limits may piss them off but ultimately they need to hear it. You are the man and have my respect good sir. :)



I wonder why NVIDIA left the stereopointer registry setting in their code? SLoppiness or maybe they intended on completing this feature one day? I hope for the latter.

#85
Posted 03/23/2011 07:06 AM   
I want:

[list]
[*]3 Hotkey Presets
[*]FPS Counter
[/list]
This should be easy to implement... /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />
I want:




  • 3 Hotkey Presets
  • FPS Counter


This should be easy to implement... /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />

#86
Posted 03/23/2011 12:23 PM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='23 March 2011 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1300902393' post='1212151']
Hi

The issue with a 3D cursor is the steps needed to make it 3D. Yes, we have experimented with it in house in the past. The problem is the performance is really poor. In some cases you get 2-3fps for the mouse cursor if we try to force one. That is not a good experience for consumers.
[/quote] Taken from [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=195980"]Topic[/url]. Wow look an answer. +1 Nvidia. Now we need them to respond to alternate pointer methods. A response about adding multiple separation/convergence presets would be nice to.

For me though, if I could just get them to honestly answer about disabling all our older NVidia reliant 3D hardware. Why they chose to screw all their long time supporters by forcing us to shelve all our EXPENSIVE 3D equipment. Not just answer but rectify the situation in some way. That's a real Die Hard topic for many of us old timers. I may not have been in these forums super long but I have been here for NVidia's 3D from the beginning. I have 6 sets of Shutter glasses from over the years and 1 HMD-HeadMountedDisplay. I also have all my old NVidia graphics cards in storage somewhere. That's well over 15 cards. I would like to feel like my loyalty had counted for something. /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='23 March 2011 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1300902393' post='1212151']

Hi



The issue with a 3D cursor is the steps needed to make it 3D. Yes, we have experimented with it in house in the past. The problem is the performance is really poor. In some cases you get 2-3fps for the mouse cursor if we try to force one. That is not a good experience for consumers.

Taken from Topic. Wow look an answer. +1 Nvidia. Now we need them to respond to alternate pointer methods. A response about adding multiple separation/convergence presets would be nice to.



For me though, if I could just get them to honestly answer about disabling all our older NVidia reliant 3D hardware. Why they chose to screw all their long time supporters by forcing us to shelve all our EXPENSIVE 3D equipment. Not just answer but rectify the situation in some way. That's a real Die Hard topic for many of us old timers. I may not have been in these forums super long but I have been here for NVidia's 3D from the beginning. I have 6 sets of Shutter glasses from over the years and 1 HMD-HeadMountedDisplay. I also have all my old NVidia graphics cards in storage somewhere. That's well over 15 cards. I would like to feel like my loyalty had counted for something. /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />

#87
Posted 03/23/2011 06:16 PM   
[quote name='soundstormvfx' date='23 March 2011 - 07:23 AM' timestamp='1300882981' post='1212048']
I want:

[list]
[*]3 Hotkey Presets
[*]FPS Counter
[/list]
This should be easy to implement... /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />
[/quote]

3 hotkey presets for convergence?

We arent interested in implementing a FPS counter right since its freely available from FRAPs today.
[quote name='soundstormvfx' date='23 March 2011 - 07:23 AM' timestamp='1300882981' post='1212048']

I want:




  • 3 Hotkey Presets
  • FPS Counter


This should be easy to implement... /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':biggrin:' />





3 hotkey presets for convergence?



We arent interested in implementing a FPS counter right since its freely available from FRAPs today.

#88
Posted 03/23/2011 08:15 PM   
I think he means 3 presets which stores both convergence and separation @ iz3ddriver style. 3 presets is imo enough (i think i used all three presets in fallout3 but in all other games i manage more than enough using two) but some wants even more. One great example where this is a must to have is assassins creed games where cutscenes often renders at very hard settings during cutscenes.
In Fallout 3 the pipboy renders at very hard settings but a click on one of the preset keys makes it look fine. When exiting pipboy, one click on another hotkey the usual settings are restored, etc. These are examples from iz3ddriver behavior but it seems 3d-vision sometimes has similar behavior too.
I think he means 3 presets which stores both convergence and separation @ iz3ddriver style. 3 presets is imo enough (i think i used all three presets in fallout3 but in all other games i manage more than enough using two) but some wants even more. One great example where this is a must to have is assassins creed games where cutscenes often renders at very hard settings during cutscenes.

In Fallout 3 the pipboy renders at very hard settings but a click on one of the preset keys makes it look fine. When exiting pipboy, one click on another hotkey the usual settings are restored, etc. These are examples from iz3ddriver behavior but it seems 3d-vision sometimes has similar behavior too.

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#89
Posted 03/23/2011 08:26 PM   
[quote name='Likay' date='23 March 2011 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1300911995' post='1212243']
I think he means 3 presets which stores both convergence and separation @ iz3ddriver style. 3 presets is imo enough (i think i used all three presets in fallout3 but in all other games i manage more than enough using two) but some wants even more. One great example where this is a must to have is assassins creed games where cutscenes often renders at very hard settings during cutscenes.
In Fallout 3 the pipboy renders at very hard settings but a click on one of the preset keys makes it look fine. When exiting pipboy, one click on another hotkey the usual settings are restored, etc. These are examples from iz3ddriver behavior but it seems 3d-vision sometimes has similar behavior too.
[/quote]

If they implemented this feature I could make a VERY VERY cool 3rd party application that would do something like this:

Example Mass Effect 2

1. Instead of pressing spacebar to speak with an NPC you would press 'Shift Tab' or whatever key you specified.
2. This will press spacebar automatically for you but in addition will also change the depth/conv to the optimal setting for conversation (Using nvidia's conv/depth preset hotkey).
3. Once you are done with the conversation and are about to click "Goodbye" you would simply press Shift Tab again while "Goodbye" is highlighted and it will once again press spacebar automatically for you and change the depth/conv back to traveling/combat mode.

[i](This functionality can easily be done with a G15 or similar but my app would be for people who dont' want to dick around with complicated hotkey software or pay money)[/i]

I would then further tweak my 3rd party application so you can customize it for any game. Basically it would feel like the game was designed to change depth/conv automatically without breaking your immersion.

All I need is three hotkeys that let me set Depth/Conv instantly.

Andrew can you have them release this by friday or monday in addition to letting us disable the in game warning messages? I kid you not, this is so retardedly easy that it shouldn't take your devs more than two hours to complete. I"m not bluffing or lieing about this or blowing it out of proportion. it should take about two hours tops to make three additional hotkey presets that instantly set depth/conv. If I was working for you I would bill you for two hours at $50.00 an hour. For $100.00 you can make so many of your users happy. Or you can wait for your 15 year experienced programmer to try and get it done by 2013.

Ultimately I'd rather your programmers do it so they get it in their heads on how to create ease of use features for the end user, it will be good practice for them. It's obvious your programmers are not gamers and don't use nvidia 3d vision at home or else they would of thought of this already. The truth is supposed to hurt to make them better programmers.
[quote name='Likay' date='23 March 2011 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1300911995' post='1212243']

I think he means 3 presets which stores both convergence and separation @ iz3ddriver style. 3 presets is imo enough (i think i used all three presets in fallout3 but in all other games i manage more than enough using two) but some wants even more. One great example where this is a must to have is assassins creed games where cutscenes often renders at very hard settings during cutscenes.

In Fallout 3 the pipboy renders at very hard settings but a click on one of the preset keys makes it look fine. When exiting pipboy, one click on another hotkey the usual settings are restored, etc. These are examples from iz3ddriver behavior but it seems 3d-vision sometimes has similar behavior too.





If they implemented this feature I could make a VERY VERY cool 3rd party application that would do something like this:



Example Mass Effect 2



1. Instead of pressing spacebar to speak with an NPC you would press 'Shift Tab' or whatever key you specified.

2. This will press spacebar automatically for you but in addition will also change the depth/conv to the optimal setting for conversation (Using nvidia's conv/depth preset hotkey).

3. Once you are done with the conversation and are about to click "Goodbye" you would simply press Shift Tab again while "Goodbye" is highlighted and it will once again press spacebar automatically for you and change the depth/conv back to traveling/combat mode.



(This functionality can easily be done with a G15 or similar but my app would be for people who dont' want to dick around with complicated hotkey software or pay money)



I would then further tweak my 3rd party application so you can customize it for any game. Basically it would feel like the game was designed to change depth/conv automatically without breaking your immersion.



All I need is three hotkeys that let me set Depth/Conv instantly.



Andrew can you have them release this by friday or monday in addition to letting us disable the in game warning messages? I kid you not, this is so retardedly easy that it shouldn't take your devs more than two hours to complete. I"m not bluffing or lieing about this or blowing it out of proportion. it should take about two hours tops to make three additional hotkey presets that instantly set depth/conv. If I was working for you I would bill you for two hours at $50.00 an hour. For $100.00 you can make so many of your users happy. Or you can wait for your 15 year experienced programmer to try and get it done by 2013.



Ultimately I'd rather your programmers do it so they get it in their heads on how to create ease of use features for the end user, it will be good practice for them. It's obvious your programmers are not gamers and don't use nvidia 3d vision at home or else they would of thought of this already. The truth is supposed to hurt to make them better programmers.

#90
Posted 03/23/2011 08:49 PM   
  6 / 9    
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