Why can't 3d TV's do 3D in 1080p@60hz?
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Anyone know exactly what going on with that and when i might change? High speed HDMI (1.4a) can do super high resolution 5000x3000 data output. I'd really love to have a 40 - 46in 5000 x 2700 computer monitor and then be able to do 1080p 3d @60+ with that. I have to say that with AA, 720p looks very good, and im now on the bandwagon for good, without a doubt, but i'd really appreciate some more detail in games like Metro 2033, which has incredible texture and lighting detail.
Anyone know exactly what going on with that and when i might change? High speed HDMI (1.4a) can do super high resolution 5000x3000 data output. I'd really love to have a 40 - 46in 5000 x 2700 computer monitor and then be able to do 1080p 3d @60+ with that. I have to say that with AA, 720p looks very good, and im now on the bandwagon for good, without a doubt, but i'd really appreciate some more detail in games like Metro 2033, which has incredible texture and lighting detail.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#1
Posted 04/05/2011 02:03 AM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='04 April 2011 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1301968997' post='1219376']
Anyone know exactly what going on with that and when i might change? High speed HDMI (1.4a) can do super high resolution 5000x3000 data output. I'd really love to have a 40 - 46in 5000 x 2700 computer monitor and then be able to do 1080p 3d @60+ with that. I have to say that with AA, 720p looks very good, and im now on the bandwagon for good, without a doubt, but i'd really appreciate some more detail in games like Metro 2033, which has incredible texture and lighting detail.
[/quote]
Where did you get the 5000x3000 resolution from?

According to HDMI's official press release HDMI 1.4 supports

•3840x2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz
•4096x2160 24Hz
http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=101

Still doesn't explain why 3D TVs can't do 1080p @ 60hz tho.

From what I've read, the spec can do it technically, but the TVs don't have fast enough HDMI chips. Curret HDMI chips run at low 200 mhz while they need 297 mhz to do 1080p@60 in 3D (essentiall 1920x2160@60).
[quote name='Libertine' date='04 April 2011 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1301968997' post='1219376']

Anyone know exactly what going on with that and when i might change? High speed HDMI (1.4a) can do super high resolution 5000x3000 data output. I'd really love to have a 40 - 46in 5000 x 2700 computer monitor and then be able to do 1080p 3d @60+ with that. I have to say that with AA, 720p looks very good, and im now on the bandwagon for good, without a doubt, but i'd really appreciate some more detail in games like Metro 2033, which has incredible texture and lighting detail.



Where did you get the 5000x3000 resolution from?



According to HDMI's official press release HDMI 1.4 supports



•3840x2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz

•4096x2160 24Hz

http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=101



Still doesn't explain why 3D TVs can't do 1080p @ 60hz tho.



From what I've read, the spec can do it technically, but the TVs don't have fast enough HDMI chips. Curret HDMI chips run at low 200 mhz while they need 297 mhz to do 1080p@60 in 3D (essentiall 1920x2160@60).

#2
Posted 04/05/2011 02:17 AM   
I see, sounds like a bandwidth problem, and overlocking from 200 to 300 sounds unlikely, but who knows... I'll check google and report back if i see anything, doubt it tho. Oops, wishful thinking i guess on the 5000x3000, i had read that report, but forgot.
I see, sounds like a bandwidth problem, and overlocking from 200 to 300 sounds unlikely, but who knows... I'll check google and report back if i see anything, doubt it tho. Oops, wishful thinking i guess on the 5000x3000, i had read that report, but forgot.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#3
Posted 04/05/2011 02:30 AM   
In 3D, 1080P/60 per eye is 1920x1080/120. See wikipedia for HDMI1.4 spec and you'll see it lacks bandwidth. Meanwhile, try 1920x1080/60 checkerboard if your HDTV dispay support CB. It looks virtually the same as 1920x1080/120 Frame Pack. In some games, it looks better due to less ghosting.
In 3D, 1080P/60 per eye is 1920x1080/120. See wikipedia for HDMI1.4 spec and you'll see it lacks bandwidth. Meanwhile, try 1920x1080/60 checkerboard if your HDTV dispay support CB. It looks virtually the same as 1920x1080/120 Frame Pack. In some games, it looks better due to less ghosting.

#4
Posted 04/05/2011 02:34 AM   
Oh right. Hmm, still, there always dual-link Dvi, hell i have two Dual dvi port on my graphics card right now! Along with two dual dvi cables at the ready. Its always baby steps it seems. If i go with the 27" 120 computer monitor, not only is it tiny, the brightness is only 300 cd/m2, which i what my Dell 30" (3007wfp high color) model was, and that is something i've sworn never to go back to after having to use my old Sharp 26" 720p TV, which amazingly blew the Dell 30" out of the water for gaming with its vibrant colors, contrast and quick response time.

Hello Nvidia! Mind mentioning this possibility to manufacturers? You have standard DVI on TV's, how about dual link DVI so we can get 1080p in 3d on a TV?
Oh right. Hmm, still, there always dual-link Dvi, hell i have two Dual dvi port on my graphics card right now! Along with two dual dvi cables at the ready. Its always baby steps it seems. If i go with the 27" 120 computer monitor, not only is it tiny, the brightness is only 300 cd/m2, which i what my Dell 30" (3007wfp high color) model was, and that is something i've sworn never to go back to after having to use my old Sharp 26" 720p TV, which amazingly blew the Dell 30" out of the water for gaming with its vibrant colors, contrast and quick response time.



Hello Nvidia! Mind mentioning this possibility to manufacturers? You have standard DVI on TV's, how about dual link DVI so we can get 1080p in 3d on a TV?

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#5
Posted 04/05/2011 03:34 AM   
roller11 man, you got to ease up with checkerboard plugs every time you post. We know you love it...i love it too on my led dlp. But this thread has nothing to do with checkerboard 3D.
roller11 man, you got to ease up with checkerboard plugs every time you post. We know you love it...i love it too on my led dlp. But this thread has nothing to do with checkerboard 3D.

#6
Posted 04/05/2011 03:35 AM   
I don't have that option in my menu. Sony 46" NX711, which is 2'8" away from me right now lol.
I don't have that option in my menu. Sony 46" NX711, which is 2'8" away from me right now lol.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#7
Posted 04/05/2011 03:41 AM   
Surely best option would be to have a Side By Side feature as most 3DTVs can utilise that (just like on the Xbox 360). Then GFX card wouldn't need to worry about flikr rate.
Surely best option would be to have a Side By Side feature as most 3DTVs can utilise that (just like on the Xbox 360). Then GFX card wouldn't need to worry about flikr rate.

#8
Posted 04/05/2011 02:48 PM   
Side by side shrinks the picture by half, then 3D makes it even smaller. I'd rather just stick to 720p if that wear the only other option.
Side by side shrinks the picture by half, then 3D makes it even smaller. I'd rather just stick to 720p if that wear the only other option.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#9
Posted 04/06/2011 12:02 AM   
sorry to say- but we are stuck with half rez checkerboard, SBS, or 720p 3d on the tv's for a while- and its already been for or five years since DLP checkerboard came out. I blame the consuls. i will not reward the display manufactures with my $$ until they sell some real HDTV's. vote with your dollars.
sorry to say- but we are stuck with half rez checkerboard, SBS, or 720p 3d on the tv's for a while- and its already been for or five years since DLP checkerboard came out. I blame the consuls. i will not reward the display manufactures with my $$ until they sell some real HDTV's. vote with your dollars.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#10
Posted 04/06/2011 06:48 AM   
I too hate the idea of rewarding the TV makers for denying us full quality 3D. Problem is, there's no alternative. Either play at sub-framerate/sub-resolution or don't play at all. It isn't like we can buy the brand that offers full quality 3D gaming.
I too hate the idea of rewarding the TV makers for denying us full quality 3D. Problem is, there's no alternative. Either play at sub-framerate/sub-resolution or don't play at all. It isn't like we can buy the brand that offers full quality 3D gaming.

#11
Posted 04/06/2011 03:50 PM   
[quote name='Libertine' date='04 April 2011 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1301968997' post='1219376']
Anyone know exactly what going on with that and when i might change? High speed HDMI (1.4a) can do super high resolution 5000x3000 data output. I'd really love to have a 40 - 46in 5000 x 2700 computer monitor and then be able to do 1080p 3d @60+ with that. I have to say that with AA, 720p looks very good, and im now on the bandwagon for good, without a doubt, but i'd really appreciate some more detail in games like Metro 2033, which has incredible texture and lighting detail.
[/quote]
In answer to the original question, my research has led me to believe this is not a bandwidth issue, but that the HDMI 1.4 chipset just cannot support the decoding. Maybe the chipset itself is not fast enough to process the packed frames into sequential frames at a high enough speed?

It's a shame because the LCD displays themselves can obviously support the refresh rates (since they can display 720p/60 packed frames). If only ONE manufacturer would release one of these displays with a DVI-D it would be awesome, but since the PC 3D gaming user base is fairly small it's unlikely to happen.
[quote name='Libertine' date='04 April 2011 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1301968997' post='1219376']

Anyone know exactly what going on with that and when i might change? High speed HDMI (1.4a) can do super high resolution 5000x3000 data output. I'd really love to have a 40 - 46in 5000 x 2700 computer monitor and then be able to do 1080p 3d @60+ with that. I have to say that with AA, 720p looks very good, and im now on the bandwagon for good, without a doubt, but i'd really appreciate some more detail in games like Metro 2033, which has incredible texture and lighting detail.



In answer to the original question, my research has led me to believe this is not a bandwidth issue, but that the HDMI 1.4 chipset just cannot support the decoding. Maybe the chipset itself is not fast enough to process the packed frames into sequential frames at a high enough speed?



It's a shame because the LCD displays themselves can obviously support the refresh rates (since they can display 720p/60 packed frames). If only ONE manufacturer would release one of these displays with a DVI-D it would be awesome, but since the PC 3D gaming user base is fairly small it's unlikely to happen.

#12
Posted 04/06/2011 04:01 PM   
I would hardly characterize PC gaming base as "small". The total number of potential customers is the sum of all PC gamers + console gamers who are also stuck with low res 3D gaming just as we are. How many gaming consoles are there world wide?
I would hardly characterize PC gaming base as "small". The total number of potential customers is the sum of all PC gamers + console gamers who are also stuck with low res 3D gaming just as we are. How many gaming consoles are there world wide?

#13
Posted 04/06/2011 10:36 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='06 April 2011 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1302129397' post='1220503']
I would hardly characterize PC gaming base as "small". The total number of potential customers is the sum of all PC gamers + console gamers who are also stuck with low res 3D gaming just as we are. How many gaming consoles are there world wide?
[/quote]
Current Gen consoles can't do 720p in 3d let alone 1080p so that market doesn't exist. PC 3d market is there though...but I really doubt 2000 dollar TVs will expand that market.
Unless they introduce 1080p 3d sports cable or Netflix streaming, I don't see TV manufacturers making these
[quote name='roller11' date='06 April 2011 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1302129397' post='1220503']

I would hardly characterize PC gaming base as "small". The total number of potential customers is the sum of all PC gamers + console gamers who are also stuck with low res 3D gaming just as we are. How many gaming consoles are there world wide?



Current Gen consoles can't do 720p in 3d let alone 1080p so that market doesn't exist. PC 3d market is there though...but I really doubt 2000 dollar TVs will expand that market.

Unless they introduce 1080p 3d sports cable or Netflix streaming, I don't see TV manufacturers making these

#14
Posted 04/06/2011 11:07 PM   
I spent 3 or 4 solid days doing research on 3D TV's before i bought one and forums were full of console gamers talking about 3D. In my experience, lowering the resolution is paramount for increasing framerate and seems like it would definitely allow for a system that can do 1080p in 2d to do 720p in 3d. Well, im hooked and here to stay, i can't even believe the realism 3D provides and what i've been missing, grr. This ain't no gimmick. I need to do a review, i've got so much to say...
I spent 3 or 4 solid days doing research on 3D TV's before i bought one and forums were full of console gamers talking about 3D. In my experience, lowering the resolution is paramount for increasing framerate and seems like it would definitely allow for a system that can do 1080p in 2d to do 720p in 3d. Well, im hooked and here to stay, i can't even believe the realism 3D provides and what i've been missing, grr. This ain't no gimmick. I need to do a review, i've got so much to say...

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#15
Posted 04/06/2011 11:21 PM   
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