Nvidia Announces VR Ready
  2 / 4    
As far as the minimum specs go, it's nothing special compared to a monitor at a similar res of 2160x1200 @ 90fps. The important differences are that we will have to pay more attention to the minimum fps as anything under 90 will be jarring and break immersion. I do hope the extra 30fps over traditional 60fps 3D vision will give an improved experience. VR SLi is an interesting beast. The good news is that for a lot of us, we are already above the minimum specs, whether nVidia puts a VR ready tag on our current hardware or not. I hope they don't drop 3D vision driver support any time soon. I guess that at this point, this is the best we can hope for. Even with the rift, I won't be reducing 3D vision use any time soon in my little free time, but most consumers will see it as a redundant technology. Some of us had compared the DK2 to 3D vision projected, and came to the conclusion that 3D vision was far better at that point. It will be interesting to compare the CV1 now... I'm just not impressed by the $600 price tag, but then again, many of us have spent a lot more than that on 3D vision already. Unfortunately, I don't think we can fight against the wave of "progress", as backward as it may seem. The best we can do is embrace it and hope that it leads to an overall better experience in the long run. I am just glad that nvidia aren't in control of this one, or after years of abysmal support, it too would be relegated to the realms of abandonware.
As far as the minimum specs go, it's nothing special compared to a monitor at a similar res of 2160x1200 @ 90fps.

The important differences are that we will have to pay more attention to the minimum fps as anything under 90 will be jarring and break immersion. I do hope the extra 30fps over traditional 60fps 3D vision will give an improved experience.

VR SLi is an interesting beast. The good news is that for a lot of us, we are already above the minimum specs, whether nVidia puts a VR ready tag on our current hardware or not.

I hope they don't drop 3D vision driver support any time soon. I guess that at this point, this is the best we can hope for. Even with the rift, I won't be reducing 3D vision use any time soon in my little free time, but most consumers will see it as a redundant technology.

Some of us had compared the DK2 to 3D vision projected, and came to the conclusion that 3D vision was far better at that point. It will be interesting to compare the CV1 now... I'm just not impressed by the $600 price tag, but then again, many of us have spent a lot more than that on 3D vision already.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can fight against the wave of "progress", as backward as it may seem. The best we can do is embrace it and hope that it leads to an overall better experience in the long run.

I am just glad that nvidia aren't in control of this one, or after years of abysmal support, it too would be relegated to the realms of abandonware.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#16
Posted 01/06/2016 05:39 PM   
I passed on the big launch. It was almost 700 when you included tax and shipping. Plus VR without motion controllers is just plain stupid IMO. I'm sure the touch controllers will add at least another 100 dollars. So that's 800. How much more will the HTC Vive really be? At that price point, I'd rather not compromise at all. Clearly Facebook changed face about selling at cost. No way that's cost. Especially since they, surprise, surprise, also backed away from launching at retail like they constantly claimed they were going to. So retail isn't taking a single penny of that. Only the most ardent Oculus supporter would refuse to acknowledge that they've shifted heavily towards mobile. That's Facebook's only real interest. I guess people should feel lucky they even decided to release CV1.
I passed on the big launch. It was almost 700 when you included tax and shipping. Plus VR without motion controllers is just plain stupid IMO. I'm sure the touch controllers will add at least another 100 dollars. So that's 800. How much more will the HTC Vive really be? At that price point, I'd rather not compromise at all.

Clearly Facebook changed face about selling at cost. No way that's cost. Especially since they, surprise, surprise, also backed away from launching at retail like they constantly claimed they were going to. So retail isn't taking a single penny of that. Only the most ardent Oculus supporter would refuse to acknowledge that they've shifted heavily towards mobile. That's Facebook's only real interest. I guess people should feel lucky they even decided to release CV1.

#17
Posted 01/06/2016 07:16 PM   
This is the first time in my life I think I'm going to pass on new tech the price is just to high. This more than half the price of top of line LG 55UB8500 which retails for $1200 in US on amazon.
This is the first time in my life I think I'm going to pass on new tech the price is just to high.

This more than half the price of top of line LG 55UB8500 which retails for $1200 in US on amazon.

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

#18
Posted 01/06/2016 07:25 PM   
I'm out. Would have to upgrade to 970 SLI or a 980Ti anyway, I don't trust their "recommended" (read "bare minimum") specs. In total it would cost well over $1500AUD!
I'm out. Would have to upgrade to 970 SLI or a 980Ti anyway, I don't trust their "recommended" (read "bare minimum") specs. In total it would cost well over $1500AUD!

OS & Driver: Win 10 w/417.35
CPU & GPU: i7 4790k, Gigabyte 980Ti G1 Gaming
MB & RAM: Asrock Z97 Extreme4, GSkill Trident 16Gb DDR3 2400Mhz
Audio: Realtek HD, Steinberg UR44
Display: Acer XB271HUA w/3D Vision 2 Kit

#19
Posted 01/06/2016 07:42 PM   
Hm... I just wanted to pre-order my Oculus Rift and then the compatibility progam on the website tells me, that my CPU is too lame and that I do not have the right USB 3 controllers... damn it. Now I need a new PC.
Hm... I just wanted to pre-order my Oculus Rift and then the compatibility progam on the website tells me, that my CPU is too lame and that I do not have the right USB 3 controllers... damn it. Now I need a new PC.

Intel Core i7-3820, 4 X 3,60 GHz overclocked to 4,50 GHz ; EVGA Titan X 12VRAM ; 16 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-1600 (4x 4 GB) ; Asus VG278H 27-inch incl. 3D vision 2 glasses, integrated transmitter ; Xbox One Elite wireless controller ; Windows 10HTC VIVE 2,5 m2 roomscale3D VISION GAMERS - VISIT ME ON STEAM and feel free to add me: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198064106555 YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UE5TPoF0HX0HVpF_E4uPQ STEAM CURATOR: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/33611530-Streaming-Deluxe/ Image

#20
Posted 01/06/2016 07:44 PM   
I think you can buy USB 3 controllers, but I wondered about that from the beginning. My mobo has two USB 3.0 slots, but they're complete trash and I disabled them in the BIOS so I didn't accidentally plug into them. I have no idea if they would "pass" the test or not. Didn't check. Also see i7 2600k's are failing the test... which seems awfully stupid. I've got a generation newer than that, but no way should that be a failing CPU. Are they getting a cut on Oculus Ready PC's? LOL
I think you can buy USB 3 controllers, but I wondered about that from the beginning. My mobo has two USB 3.0 slots, but they're complete trash and I disabled them in the BIOS so I didn't accidentally plug into them. I have no idea if they would "pass" the test or not. Didn't check. Also see i7 2600k's are failing the test... which seems awfully stupid. I've got a generation newer than that, but no way should that be a failing CPU. Are they getting a cut on Oculus Ready PC's? LOL

#21
Posted 01/06/2016 07:48 PM   
Please, lets keep fixing the games for 3D vision. It will take too long for VR to be ready for the public, another two years at least and by then who can garantee that VR will still be a big thing? It might lose its chance to be a big thing because of its high cost = top graphic card + 700? not an option for the majority.
Please, lets keep fixing the games for 3D vision. It will take too long for VR to be ready for the public, another two years at least and by then who can garantee that VR will still be a big thing? It might lose its chance to be a big thing because of its high cost = top graphic card + 700? not an option for the majority.

EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Motherboard MSI Z370 SLI PLUS
Processor i5-8600K @ 4.2 | Cooler SilverStone AR02
Corsair Vengeance 8GB 3000Mhz | Windows 10 Pro
SSD 240gb Kingston UV400 | 2x HDs 1TB RAID0 | 2x HD 2TB RAID1
TV LG Cinema 3D 49lb6200 | ACER EDID override | Oculus Rift CV1
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/J0hnnieW4lker
Screenshots: http://phereo.com/583b3a2f8884282d5d000007

#22
Posted 01/06/2016 07:52 PM   
Keeping in mind that general consumers are gullible and have the memory of a goldfish, companies are not about keeping promises. They are about one thing only: making money. It is literally illegal for a company to have another motive except to make money - A director's overriding duty by law is to increase shareholder wealth. Prices are only set once there has been thorough market research by highly paid departments in the company. Their sole job is to find out how to maximise company revenue for said product. Cost of manufacture has nothing to do with it, no matter what a company may tell you. This means that they will find the sweet spot between price and the number of units they can shift. Multiplying these 2 numbers together gives gross revenue i.e. the bottom line. Of course, the more the hype, the higher the price tag. The Oculus had an entire hype train. This goes for Oculus, nVidia, AMD, Microsoft, Intel, et al. It is always disheartening to see people complain about broken promises and high prices. This kind of thing should be taught in school so that the general population isn't so easily taken advantage of.
Keeping in mind that general consumers are gullible and have the memory of a goldfish, companies are not about keeping promises. They are about one thing only: making money. It is literally illegal for a company to have another motive except to make money - A director's overriding duty by law is to increase shareholder wealth.

Prices are only set once there has been thorough market research by highly paid departments in the company. Their sole job is to find out how to maximise company revenue for said product. Cost of manufacture has nothing to do with it, no matter what a company may tell you. This means that they will find the sweet spot between price and the number of units they can shift. Multiplying these 2 numbers together gives gross revenue i.e. the bottom line.

Of course, the more the hype, the higher the price tag. The Oculus had an entire hype train.

This goes for Oculus, nVidia, AMD, Microsoft, Intel, et al.

It is always disheartening to see people complain about broken promises and high prices. This kind of thing should be taught in school so that the general population isn't so easily taken advantage of.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#23
Posted 01/06/2016 08:00 PM   
Consoles have historically broken even at best (and often lost a lot of money at launch). It's not uncommon for companies to subsidize something at launch so they can make it up on the back-end. This is extremely common. And hey, this is what Oculus preached Facebook would do. I've always known HTC would need to have large margins, but they didn't have a couple of professional BS artists constantly harping noble non-sense. I only brought it up to point out the larger point: Facebook gives two dumps about the hardcore PC market. This is why things changed and they're mobile, mobile, mobile. Which I think people should finally acknowledge. As if there wasn't ample evidence before today.
Consoles have historically broken even at best (and often lost a lot of money at launch). It's not uncommon for companies to subsidize something at launch so they can make it up on the back-end. This is extremely common.

And hey, this is what Oculus preached Facebook would do. I've always known HTC would need to have large margins, but they didn't have a couple of professional BS artists constantly harping noble non-sense. I only brought it up to point out the larger point: Facebook gives two dumps about the hardcore PC market. This is why things changed and they're mobile, mobile, mobile. Which I think people should finally acknowledge. As if there wasn't ample evidence before today.

#24
Posted 01/06/2016 08:05 PM   
Minimum Requirements*: GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 or greater CPU: Intel Core i5- 4590 equivalent or greater Notebook: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Memory/RAM: 8GB+ RAM Outputs: 2x USB 3.0 ports, HDMI 1.3 OS: Windows 7 SP1 or newer Find out if your PC is VR-ready through GeForce Experience * Based on published VR requirements by headset manufacturers. (http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vr/system-requirements) Hmm, not that I care but [color="orange"]Notebook: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980[/color] Really? First of all 980 doesn't even exist on a Laptop, it is called a 980[color="green"]M[/color]. So my laptop with a 880M can't use VR but I can use 3D Vision just fine as is a 3D Vision Ready Laptop. Hell Anywho, I for one don't care about VR! I will pick it after 1-2 years (if is still around). I'll still be using and supporting 3D Vision though! I still believe that 3D Surround looks and feels way better than VR, but this a personal preference.
Minimum Requirements*:
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 or greater
CPU: Intel Core i5- 4590 equivalent or greater
Notebook: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980
Memory/RAM: 8GB+ RAM
Outputs: 2x USB 3.0 ports, HDMI 1.3
OS: Windows 7 SP1 or newer
Find out if your PC is VR-ready through GeForce Experience
* Based on published VR requirements by headset manufacturers.
(http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vr/system-requirements)

Hmm, not that I care but Notebook: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Really? First of all 980 doesn't even exist on a Laptop, it is called a 980M.

So my laptop with a 880M can't use VR but I can use 3D Vision just fine as is a 3D Vision Ready Laptop. Hell Anywho, I for one don't care about VR! I will pick it after 1-2 years (if is still around).
I'll still be using and supporting 3D Vision though! I still believe that 3D Surround looks and feels way better than VR, but this a personal preference.

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#25
Posted 01/06/2016 08:31 PM   
do all these HMDs already work as stereo 3d displays for 3dvision games?
do all these HMDs already work as stereo 3d displays for 3dvision games?

#26
Posted 01/06/2016 08:32 PM   
[quote="J0hnnieW4lker"]Please, lets keep fixing the games for 3D vision. It will take too long for VR to be ready for the public, another two years at least and by then who can garantee that VR will still be a big thing? It might lose its chance to be a big thing because of its high cost = top graphic card + 700? not an option for the majority.[/quote] It will not... It will not be even mentioned anymore... Look at 4K, GSYNC, 3D Vision, Surround PROPAGANDA that was made when it was released...and now?? We don't even have DRIVERS where ALL OF THEM work together properly... VR PROPAGANDA will pass;)
J0hnnieW4lker said:Please, lets keep fixing the games for 3D vision. It will take too long for VR to be ready for the public, another two years at least and by then who can garantee that VR will still be a big thing? It might lose its chance to be a big thing because of its high cost = top graphic card + 700? not an option for the majority.


It will not... It will not be even mentioned anymore... Look at 4K, GSYNC, 3D Vision, Surround PROPAGANDA that was made when it was released...and now?? We don't even have DRIVERS where ALL OF THEM work together properly...

VR PROPAGANDA will pass;)

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#27
Posted 01/06/2016 08:33 PM   
I know it's not the same thing, but for $100 I got a Samsung Gear VR in my Christmas Stocking (I already have a Note 5 phone), and whereas the experience can be great, the resolution is still a bit low for my liking. The Gear VR has resolution 2560x1440, which chopped in half gives 1280x1440 per eye. The Occulus CV1 only has resolution 2160x1200, so just 1080x1200 per eye, a whole 25% worse in X and 20% worse in Y. Now, for my phone, and the games that it is capable of playing (i.e. not AAA PC titles) it's still pretty great since the games can't be too detailed, so I've had lots of fun with space shooting games etc. But I am not sure I could play a game that would normally look highly detailed on a PC, say Alien Isolation or Fallout 4, on the Occulus CV1 with even less resolution that I know the Note 5 looks like. By the way, there is absolutely no Ghosting whatsoever, so there will be no ghosting on the CV1 either - each eyeball looks at a different image. Also, where is this 90Hz stuff coming from? I can't tell the difference between 56Hz and anything else above 56Hz. I'm also pretty sure my phone is not managing 90Hz and it's all fine for me. It seems like an unnecessarily high bar to be setting... I read the paper on the NVidia SLI VR and I am quite impressed with what they have done - if VR gaming is to work properly this is the stuff that needs doing. We can argue all we like about whether or not they drop it in 3, 4 or 5 years, but right now it won't even get started without this type of development. I also wonder if there might not be (ironically) some payoff for 3D Vision - VR is still just stereoscopy after all, so if they optimize the approach to generating stereo images for VR games (using SLI at least), then that could be back portable to outputting to regular old 3D Vision as well I would have thought? And further, if the approach is built upon independently generating L and R images without using NVidia Automatic (e.g. how a game with it's own renderer might do it), the stereo would be flawless as well. I guess we will see...
I know it's not the same thing, but for $100 I got a Samsung Gear VR in my Christmas Stocking (I already have a Note 5 phone), and whereas the experience can be great, the resolution is still a bit low for my liking. The Gear VR has resolution 2560x1440, which chopped in half gives 1280x1440 per eye. The Occulus CV1 only has resolution 2160x1200, so just 1080x1200 per eye, a whole 25% worse in X and 20% worse in Y. Now, for my phone, and the games that it is capable of playing (i.e. not AAA PC titles) it's still pretty great since the games can't be too detailed, so I've had lots of fun with space shooting games etc. But I am not sure I could play a game that would normally look highly detailed on a PC, say Alien Isolation or Fallout 4, on the Occulus CV1 with even less resolution that I know the Note 5 looks like.

By the way, there is absolutely no Ghosting whatsoever, so there will be no ghosting on the CV1 either - each eyeball looks at a different image.

Also, where is this 90Hz stuff coming from? I can't tell the difference between 56Hz and anything else above 56Hz. I'm also pretty sure my phone is not managing 90Hz and it's all fine for me. It seems like an unnecessarily high bar to be setting...

I read the paper on the NVidia SLI VR and I am quite impressed with what they have done - if VR gaming is to work properly this is the stuff that needs doing. We can argue all we like about whether or not they drop it in 3, 4 or 5 years, but right now it won't even get started without this type of development. I also wonder if there might not be (ironically) some payoff for 3D Vision - VR is still just stereoscopy after all, so if they optimize the approach to generating stereo images for VR games (using SLI at least), then that could be back portable to outputting to regular old 3D Vision as well I would have thought? And further, if the approach is built upon independently generating L and R images without using NVidia Automatic (e.g. how a game with it's own renderer might do it), the stereo would be flawless as well. I guess we will see...

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#28
Posted 01/06/2016 08:37 PM   
[quote="biz"]do all these HMDs already work as stereo 3d displays for 3dvision games?[/quote] Certainly not the mobile phone ones to my knowledge, but you can watch "normal" stereo movies and videos etc, which is pretty cool. I watched Avatar for example and it's like being in the cinema watching a 3D movie, but with low res. **EDIT Apparently this site sells an app for Gear VR... http://trinusvr.com/
biz said:do all these HMDs already work as stereo 3d displays for 3dvision games?

Certainly not the mobile phone ones to my knowledge, but you can watch "normal" stereo movies and videos etc, which is pretty cool. I watched Avatar for example and it's like being in the cinema watching a 3D movie, but with low res.

**EDIT Apparently this site sells an app for Gear VR... http://trinusvr.com/

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#29
Posted 01/06/2016 08:44 PM   
[quote="Paul33993"]I think you can buy USB 3 controllers, but I wondered about that from the beginning. My mobo has two USB 3.0 slots, but they're complete trash and I disabled them in the BIOS so I didn't accidentally plug into them. I have no idea if they would "pass" the test or not. Didn't check. Also see i7 2600k's are failing the test... which seems awfully stupid. I've got a generation newer than that, but no way should that be a failing CPU. Are they getting a cut on Oculus Ready PC's? LOL[/quote] Yes, actually I can. But I was wondering becaue my PC has already USB 3. But I don't really know what is the problem. So I will buy one for 20 EUR. Here are the help message you get from Oculus to this error: [i]Why am I getting this error? If you received this error message, our compatibility tool detected that your computer's USB 3.0 ports are incompatible with Rift. How do I resolve this error? 1. Purchase and install a PCI Express USB 3.0 Expansion Card. Click here to view a compatible card. If you need assistance with installing new computer hardware, please reach out to a computer technician or specialist for guidance. 2. Use a different computer that has compatible USB 3.0 ports and also meets all of Rift's recommended system specifications. 3. Purchase a new computer certified by Oculus to meet Rift's recommended system specifications. To view those options, click here.[/i]
Paul33993 said:I think you can buy USB 3 controllers, but I wondered about that from the beginning. My mobo has two USB 3.0 slots, but they're complete trash and I disabled them in the BIOS so I didn't accidentally plug into them. I have no idea if they would "pass" the test or not. Didn't check. Also see i7 2600k's are failing the test... which seems awfully stupid. I've got a generation newer than that, but no way should that be a failing CPU. Are they getting a cut on Oculus Ready PC's? LOL


Yes, actually I can. But I was wondering becaue my PC has already USB 3. But I don't really know what is the problem. So I will buy one for 20 EUR. Here are the help message you get from Oculus to this error:

Why am I getting this error?
If you received this error message, our compatibility tool detected that your computer's USB 3.0 ports are incompatible with Rift.

How do I resolve this error?

1. Purchase and install a PCI Express USB 3.0 Expansion Card. Click here to view a compatible card.

If you need assistance with installing new computer hardware, please reach out to a computer technician or specialist for guidance.

2. Use a different computer that has compatible USB 3.0 ports and also meets all of Rift's recommended system specifications.

3. Purchase a new computer certified by Oculus to meet Rift's recommended system specifications. To view those options, click here.

Intel Core i7-3820, 4 X 3,60 GHz overclocked to 4,50 GHz ; EVGA Titan X 12VRAM ; 16 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-1600 (4x 4 GB) ; Asus VG278H 27-inch incl. 3D vision 2 glasses, integrated transmitter ; Xbox One Elite wireless controller ; Windows 10HTC VIVE 2,5 m2 roomscale3D VISION GAMERS - VISIT ME ON STEAM and feel free to add me: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198064106555 YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UE5TPoF0HX0HVpF_E4uPQ STEAM CURATOR: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/33611530-Streaming-Deluxe/ Image

#30
Posted 01/06/2016 09:01 PM   
  2 / 4    
Scroll To Top