3DTV Play TV Requirements?
I have tried searching the forms and the websites but I can't seem to find my answer. Basically I'm trying to find out if the 3-D TV can be passive like a Visio or LG. Or does it have to be an active 3-D like Samsung or Sony? Thanks in Advance, AliceSML79
I have tried searching the forms and the websites but I can't seem to find my answer. Basically I'm trying to find out if the 3-D TV can be passive like a Visio or LG. Or does it have to be an active 3-D like Samsung or Sony?

Thanks in Advance, AliceSML79

#1
Posted 03/26/2017 07:33 PM   
Note that 3D is not included any new (2017) TV, making purchase of any 3D-capable TV more difficult over time. 3DTV Play is unlikely to modified from its current deficient state. In my opinion, the best 3D display is a third gen LG OLED (55C6 or 55E6) using non-harmful EDID Display Driver override - see [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/943900/3d-vision/search-information-about-edid-for-3dvision-on-lg-oled-4k-55ef950v-55ef9500-/[/url] for more discussion). 4K game rendering requires at least 1080 GPU, however...
Note that 3D is not included any new (2017) TV, making purchase of any 3D-capable TV more difficult over time. 3DTV Play is unlikely to modified from its current deficient state.

In my opinion, the best 3D display is a third gen LG OLED (55C6 or 55E6) using non-harmful EDID Display Driver override - see https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/943900/3d-vision/search-information-about-edid-for-3dvision-on-lg-oled-4k-55ef950v-55ef9500-/ for more discussion). 4K game rendering requires at least 1080 GPU, however...

#2
Posted 03/26/2017 08:55 PM   
Well my Build wil have a 1080ti. But tv wise not sure what 60" to get, ts for cable, movies, Apple TV, PS4, PS3, PS2, PSX, & ofcorese computer. 4K be sweet but I could live with 1080 if I have too.
Well my Build wil have a 1080ti. But tv wise not sure what 60" to get, ts for cable, movies, Apple TV, PS4, PS3, PS2, PSX, & ofcorese computer. 4K be sweet but I could live with 1080 if I have too.

#3
Posted 03/26/2017 09:54 PM   
On a side note I which cinema 21:9 ultra wide TVI existied. I ave 60" wide area for O'Neil they did, lol.
On a side note I which cinema 21:9 ultra wide TVI existied. I ave 60" wide area for O'Neil they did, lol.

#4
Posted 03/26/2017 10:02 PM   
LOL, auto correct can be dumb. Which is supposed to be wish. Not sure where it came up with O'Neil. I'll repost. On a side note I wish cinema 21:9 ultra wide TV's existed. I have 60" wide area for one if they did, lol.
LOL, auto correct can be dumb. Which is supposed to be wish. Not sure where it came up with O'Neil. I'll repost.

On a side note I wish cinema 21:9 ultra wide TV's existed. I have 60" wide area for one if they did, lol.

#5
Posted 03/27/2017 11:13 AM   
To answer the original question : NVidia 3DTV play works using the Hdmi1.4 standard mandatory transmission format for 3D. The technical term for this format is : "Hdmi Frame-packing". It works at the following resolutions : 720p60 and 1080p24. (the refresh rate is measured in full pairs of Left/Right images, no need to multiply or divide by 2 to get the proper frame rate) The format is designed to be universal. All 3D source equipment manufacturers and 3DTV manufacturers must support it regardless of the type of 3D technology used in the TV : Passive or active ; or content : movies or games. You'll notice that these resolutions are much lower than what state of the art of 3D TVs are capable of. The reason for that is because Nvidia wants it's own brand, "3D Vision", to be a superior product over regular 3DTVs and lowers the 3DTV play product to it's minimum mandatory requirements. You will find a lot of talk in the forums about finding ways to bypass these limitations. For passive TVs : the idea is to use an EDID override in order to make the computer believe your TV is actually one of the few (old) passive monitors which used to be supported by Nvidia. The 3D Vision driver will then render the native picture format of these TVs. This way you can use a 4K passive TV and render the games at 4K in 3D (downsampled to half-4K : 3840x1080 per eye). This method works on all games but require you to make extra effort to force the use of the native resolution (both resolution and RGB colour sampling), and turn off all image enhancement systems in both the computer and the TV (sharpening, creative frame interpolation, etc...) because all the pixels must reach the screen intact or the treatment will mix the pixels and destroy the 3D effect. For active TVs : the idea is to render the image in Side-by-side format using the community tool 3D-Migoto and then use the TV's manual 3D detection override and force the TV to use the appropriate format. This way you can render your games at 4K in 3D (downsampled to half-4K : either 1920x2160). This does not work on every game since 3DMigoto is a DX11 tool only and some games crash when using the side by side output mode. And not all TVs allow the use of 3D override at 4K resolutions.
To answer the original question :
NVidia 3DTV play works using the Hdmi1.4 standard mandatory transmission format for 3D.
The technical term for this format is : "Hdmi Frame-packing". It works at the following resolutions : 720p60 and 1080p24.
(the refresh rate is measured in full pairs of Left/Right images, no need to multiply or divide by 2 to get the proper frame rate)

The format is designed to be universal. All 3D source equipment manufacturers and 3DTV manufacturers must support it regardless of the type of 3D technology used in the TV : Passive or active ; or content : movies or games.

You'll notice that these resolutions are much lower than what state of the art of 3D TVs are capable of.
The reason for that is because Nvidia wants it's own brand, "3D Vision", to be a superior product over regular 3DTVs and lowers the 3DTV play product to it's minimum mandatory requirements.

You will find a lot of talk in the forums about finding ways to bypass these limitations.

For passive TVs : the idea is to use an EDID override in order to make the computer believe your TV is actually one of the few (old) passive monitors which used to be supported by Nvidia. The 3D Vision driver will then render the native picture format of these TVs. This way you can use a 4K passive TV and render the games at 4K in 3D (downsampled to half-4K : 3840x1080 per eye). This method works on all games but require you to make extra effort to force the use of the native resolution (both resolution and RGB colour sampling), and turn off all image enhancement systems in both the computer and the TV (sharpening, creative frame interpolation, etc...) because all the pixels must reach the screen intact or the treatment will mix the pixels and destroy the 3D effect.

For active TVs : the idea is to render the image in Side-by-side format using the community tool 3D-Migoto and then use the TV's manual 3D detection override and force the TV to use the appropriate format. This way you can render your games at 4K in 3D (downsampled to half-4K : either 1920x2160).
This does not work on every game since 3DMigoto is a DX11 tool only and some games crash when using the side by side output mode. And not all TVs allow the use of 3D override at 4K resolutions.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#6
Posted 03/27/2017 01:36 PM   
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]and turn off all image enhancement systems in both the computer and the TV (sharpening, creative frame interpolation, etc...) because all the pixels must reach the screen intact or the treatment will mix the pixels and destroy the 3D effect.[/quote]Great discussion, BlackSharkfr. Note that all image processing on the computer side is OK, since the passive interleave formatting (downsampling) is generally performed as a last step, after all rendering is complete. The TV should use no image processing, however, as you recommend. In fact, since the entire full frame 4K image is rendered first, the current industry approach to SBS, TAB, and interleaved 3D formats requires 2X the processing overhead that non-symmetric pixel processing would require (more complex, but better image quality and much more efficient).
BlackSharkfr said:and turn off all image enhancement systems in both the computer and the TV (sharpening, creative frame interpolation, etc...) because all the pixels must reach the screen intact or the treatment will mix the pixels and destroy the 3D effect.
Great discussion, BlackSharkfr. Note that all image processing on the computer side is OK, since the passive interleave formatting (downsampling) is generally performed as a last step, after all rendering is complete. The TV should use no image processing, however, as you recommend.

In fact, since the entire full frame 4K image is rendered first, the current industry approach to SBS, TAB, and interleaved 3D formats requires 2X the processing overhead that non-symmetric pixel processing would require (more complex, but better image quality and much more efficient).

#7
Posted 03/27/2017 03:14 PM   
It can still be difficult getting decent framerates for 2D 4K gaming. For 3D interleaved output to a 4K TV, what kinds of performance are people getting? Are the game engines rendering a full 4K x L+R?
It can still be difficult getting decent framerates for 2D 4K gaming. For 3D interleaved output to a 4K TV, what kinds of performance are people getting?

Are the game engines rendering a full 4K x L+R?

#8
Posted 03/27/2017 08:01 PM   
Yes, game engines render full 4K 3D frames. I have found only one game - Cradle - requires .ini change to work with 4K resolution, and one other - Kingdoms of Amalur - has some screen menus that do not work correctly at 4K, but are OK with 1080p resolution. Most games work without issue... I have migrated to single hybrid-cooled Pascal Titan X GPU because of the 4K rendering needs for some recent games like Dark Souls 3, Titanfall 2, and Witcher 3. With the Titan X (+200 MHz core clock), I can generally maintain at least 30 fps in games like Dark Souls 3, using highest visual effects.
Yes, game engines render full 4K 3D frames. I have found only one game - Cradle - requires .ini change to work with 4K resolution, and one other - Kingdoms of Amalur - has some screen menus that do not work correctly at 4K, but are OK with 1080p resolution. Most games work without issue...


I have migrated to single hybrid-cooled Pascal Titan X GPU because of the 4K rendering needs for some recent games like Dark Souls 3, Titanfall 2, and Witcher 3. With the Titan X (+200 MHz core clock), I can generally maintain at least 30 fps in games like Dark Souls 3, using highest visual effects.

#9
Posted 03/27/2017 08:25 PM   
Ugh, that sucks. There's absolutely no way to feed a 1080p 3D signal at 60Hz to these these TVs? Is the limitation the HDMI spec or Nvidia's drivers?
Ugh, that sucks. There's absolutely no way to feed a 1080p 3D signal at 60Hz to these these TVs? Is the limitation the HDMI spec or Nvidia's drivers?

#10
Posted 03/28/2017 12:58 AM   
I believe NVIDIA drivers could readily handle 1080p 60 Hz (they appear to be HDMI 2.0 compliant). The problem is 3DTV Play has not been updated for more than 5 years - 3DTV Play is only HDMI 1.4a compliant (which does NOT support 1080p60 3D). The great 4K passive EDID mods that some of us use are work-arounds for this limitation.
I believe NVIDIA drivers could readily handle 1080p 60 Hz (they appear to be HDMI 2.0 compliant). The problem is 3DTV Play has not been updated for more than 5 years - 3DTV Play is only HDMI 1.4a compliant (which does NOT support 1080p60 3D). The great 4K passive EDID mods that some of us use are work-arounds for this limitation.

#11
Posted 03/28/2017 02:35 AM   
Thanks for all the great information everyone I really appreciate it
Thanks for all the great information everyone I really appreciate it

#12
Posted 03/28/2017 07:29 PM   
[quote="whyme466"]I believe NVIDIA drivers could readily handle 1080p 60 Hz (they appear to be HDMI 2.0 compliant). The problem is 3DTV Play has not been updated for more than 5 years - 3DTV Play is only HDMI 1.4a compliant (which does NOT support 1080p60 3D). The great 4K passive EDID mods that some of us use are work-arounds for this limitation.[/quote] I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but it seems the bigger part of the problem is that 3DTV Play is a separate thing at all. Interleaved displays: check; 3D Monitors: check; 3DTVs: sorry, nope... :(
whyme466 said:I believe NVIDIA drivers could readily handle 1080p 60 Hz (they appear to be HDMI 2.0 compliant). The problem is 3DTV Play has not been updated for more than 5 years - 3DTV Play is only HDMI 1.4a compliant (which does NOT support 1080p60 3D). The great 4K passive EDID mods that some of us use are work-arounds for this limitation.

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but it seems the bigger part of the problem is that 3DTV Play is a separate thing at all. Interleaved displays: check; 3D Monitors: check; 3DTVs: sorry, nope... :(

#13
Posted 03/29/2017 02:10 AM   
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