Planar Stereomirror DIY setup. Make your own for $x,xxx less
2 / 5
The beta 97.94 drivers work with 8800 on 158.19 driver set but you have to tweak the registry to get the stereo options visible. The stereoset is visible only on the old style control panel, the .net crap (surprisingly) doesn't have them available.
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
Easyest way to get the stereo working is by downloading the dragon 3D settings tweaker. [url="http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126"]http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126[/url]
The beta 97.94 drivers work with 8800 on 158.19 driver set but you have to tweak the registry to get the stereo options visible. The stereoset is visible only on the old style control panel, the .net crap (surprisingly) doesn't have them available.
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
[quote name='Mara' date='May 1 2007, 10:50 AM']The beta 97.94 drivers work with 8800 on 158.19 driver set but you have to tweak the registry to get the stereo options visible. The stereoset is visible only on the old style control panel, the .net crap (surprisingly) doesn't have them available.
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
Easyest way to get the stereo working is by downloading the dragon 3D settings tweaker. [url="http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126"]http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126[/url]
[right][snapback]191899[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Thanks :)
Any news on how compatible? Dual output modes working?
[quote name='Mara' date='May 1 2007, 10:50 AM']The beta 97.94 drivers work with 8800 on 158.19 driver set but you have to tweak the registry to get the stereo options visible. The stereoset is visible only on the old style control panel, the .net crap (surprisingly) doesn't have them available.
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
I received the polarized glasses today, hopefully the reflective glass comes tomorrow and I can do some tests. Quick question though - I tried both pairs of polarized glasses out (one terminator style, and one generic style). With both pair of glasses I could still see some of the monitor output through the polarized glasses. Granted it wasn't as visible, and the genric set mostly blocked the monitor output out. Is this normal or does it indicate my monitor has a different polarization angle? Do you think this will affect the 3d effect or will I be dealing with a bad ghosting effect?
I received the polarized glasses today, hopefully the reflective glass comes tomorrow and I can do some tests. Quick question though - I tried both pairs of polarized glasses out (one terminator style, and one generic style). With both pair of glasses I could still see some of the monitor output through the polarized glasses. Granted it wasn't as visible, and the genric set mostly blocked the monitor output out. Is this normal or does it indicate my monitor has a different polarization angle? Do you think this will affect the 3d effect or will I be dealing with a bad ghosting effect?
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 2 2007, 09:20 AM']I received the polarized glasses today, hopefully the reflective glass comes tomorrow and I can do some tests. Quick question though - I tried both pairs of polarized glasses out (one terminator style, and one generic style). With both pair of glasses I could still see some of the monitor output through the polarized glasses. Granted it wasn't as visible, and the genric set mostly blocked the monitor output out. Is this normal or does it indicate my monitor has a different polarization angle? Do you think this will affect the 3d effect or will I be dealing with a bad ghosting effect?
Thanks guys.
George
[right][snapback]192318[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
There is always a bit of "bleed", but it is also dependant on the ambient lighting, if you have a window open or a light on your pupil will usually close so that you see only black through the blocking lens.
Just hold the glasses in front of the monitor and rotate them, you will see the "zones" where the lenses block the light. If one of the zones is with the glasses oriented as you wear them, then you are good.
We aren't really concerned with totally blocking the light, just making enough of a contrast that our eyes/brain are fooled, if you see the above pictures, that is plenty of contrast.
As I said, in a dim room a pupil will dilate and the percieved contrast is reduced because the blocked light is more visible than the surrounding ambient light.
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 2 2007, 09:20 AM']I received the polarized glasses today, hopefully the reflective glass comes tomorrow and I can do some tests. Quick question though - I tried both pairs of polarized glasses out (one terminator style, and one generic style). With both pair of glasses I could still see some of the monitor output through the polarized glasses. Granted it wasn't as visible, and the genric set mostly blocked the monitor output out. Is this normal or does it indicate my monitor has a different polarization angle? Do you think this will affect the 3d effect or will I be dealing with a bad ghosting effect?
Thanks guys.
George
[snapback]192318[/snapback]
There is always a bit of "bleed", but it is also dependant on the ambient lighting, if you have a window open or a light on your pupil will usually close so that you see only black through the blocking lens.
Just hold the glasses in front of the monitor and rotate them, you will see the "zones" where the lenses block the light. If one of the zones is with the glasses oriented as you wear them, then you are good.
We aren't really concerned with totally blocking the light, just making enough of a contrast that our eyes/brain are fooled, if you see the above pictures, that is plenty of contrast.
As I said, in a dim room a pupil will dilate and the percieved contrast is reduced because the blocked light is more visible than the surrounding ambient light.
Cool, thanks for the pics man, that is pretty much what I see. The mirror unexpectedly arrived a day early so later tonight I'll be conducting a trial run. :)
Cool, thanks for the pics man, that is pretty much what I see. The mirror unexpectedly arrived a day early so later tonight I'll be conducting a trial run. :)
Success! My initial tests prove the 3d effect is obtainable though not the easiest thing to pull off with 2 monitors temporarily canted at a 90 degree angle to one another while one hand trys to hold the mirror steady enough to get the images synchronized enough to pull the 3d images off. It took a bit of time, but I finally lined everything up and gave it a test drive in Company of Heros.
It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.
Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.
I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
Success! My initial tests prove the 3d effect is obtainable though not the easiest thing to pull off with 2 monitors temporarily canted at a 90 degree angle to one another while one hand trys to hold the mirror steady enough to get the images synchronized enough to pull the 3d images off. It took a bit of time, but I finally lined everything up and gave it a test drive in Company of Heros.
It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.
Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.
I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
Hey nubie, I bought my own mirror and glasses. I got some of the $2.75 plastic framed generic ones, and a Terminator.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.
I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. (rather than having to buy another mirror later, and build the box again for a bigger screen)
I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety).
Basically, one uses the home theater calculator or solves the system of equations to find the height and width of your monitors. The home theater calculator is : [url="http://www.carltonbale.com/home-theater/home-theater-calculator/"]http://www.carltonbale.com/home-theater/ho...ter-calculator/[/url]
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Dotted line is where the mirror is. So the formula is : minimum mirror WIDTH is equal to the WIDTH of the screen on the monitor. Minimum HEIGHT is the HYPOTENUSE of the triangle formed by the two monitor screen heights. So the pythagoreum theorem.
I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
I am a perfectionist for things like this, so after I get my mirror I plan to build a box out of wood to hold it. Blocking ambient light will help to give the maximum possible contrast and the most vivid, realistic images.
I am also thinking about building a headrest to go along with a special "gamer" chair I have. Or maybe an inverted position. The headrest will keep your head from rotating.
The monitors need to be aligned perfectly, by cloning an identical image to each one for a guide, and I am thinking of building a mount that uses nuts and bolts for fine adjustment. The perfect alignment will help you see things like heads up displays that are part of the image in a game.
Nubie : the reason your setup is so bright is that almost all the light from any LCD is polarized at 45 degrees. It is an inherent property of the liquid crystals themselves, not a polarizing screen added to the stack. So while the glasses you wear allow only 37 percent of total light through, ALL the light is polarized and so ALL of it gets through.
The only losses are in the mirror itself : 50%. That cuts the peak brightness the LCD can reach by half, as well as cuts the color of black down by half as well. This is why a setup that blocks ambient light is best : the contrast is still there in our setup, but you have to block out competing light.
You also have to block light being reflected OFF OF the LCD itself!!! THAT is why light leaks through the polarized glasses : you ONLY want light coming from the LCD backlight to get through to your eyes. You do NOT want ordinary room light to hit the LCD matrix and come back at you : some of that light would sneak through the wrong lens on your glasses.
So, a setup made of wood like a cabinet to block out external light works the best. I am thinking a hood or using this system at night would also work best.
Each screen also needs to be independently calibrated for gamma and black level. Those help immensely in getting accurate color reproduction, and you have to calibrate them after building your setup because obviously the mirror and glasses and everything will all affect it. I have 2 images I use for correcting black level and contrast, and I use a photo website for a gamma corrective image.
As soon as I do this myself, I'll tell you how to do it.
Hey nubie, I bought my own mirror and glasses. I got some of the $2.75 plastic framed generic ones, and a Terminator.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.
I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. (rather than having to buy another mirror later, and build the box again for a bigger screen)
I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety).
Dotted line is where the mirror is. So the formula is : minimum mirror WIDTH is equal to the WIDTH of the screen on the monitor. Minimum HEIGHT is the HYPOTENUSE of the triangle formed by the two monitor screen heights. So the pythagoreum theorem.
I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
I am a perfectionist for things like this, so after I get my mirror I plan to build a box out of wood to hold it. Blocking ambient light will help to give the maximum possible contrast and the most vivid, realistic images.
I am also thinking about building a headrest to go along with a special "gamer" chair I have. Or maybe an inverted position. The headrest will keep your head from rotating.
The monitors need to be aligned perfectly, by cloning an identical image to each one for a guide, and I am thinking of building a mount that uses nuts and bolts for fine adjustment. The perfect alignment will help you see things like heads up displays that are part of the image in a game.
Nubie : the reason your setup is so bright is that almost all the light from any LCD is polarized at 45 degrees. It is an inherent property of the liquid crystals themselves, not a polarizing screen added to the stack. So while the glasses you wear allow only 37 percent of total light through, ALL the light is polarized and so ALL of it gets through.
The only losses are in the mirror itself : 50%. That cuts the peak brightness the LCD can reach by half, as well as cuts the color of black down by half as well. This is why a setup that blocks ambient light is best : the contrast is still there in our setup, but you have to block out competing light.
You also have to block light being reflected OFF OF the LCD itself!!! THAT is why light leaks through the polarized glasses : you ONLY want light coming from the LCD backlight to get through to your eyes. You do NOT want ordinary room light to hit the LCD matrix and come back at you : some of that light would sneak through the wrong lens on your glasses.
So, a setup made of wood like a cabinet to block out external light works the best. I am thinking a hood or using this system at night would also work best.
Each screen also needs to be independently calibrated for gamma and black level. Those help immensely in getting accurate color reproduction, and you have to calibrate them after building your setup because obviously the mirror and glasses and everything will all affect it. I have 2 images I use for correcting black level and contrast, and I use a photo website for a gamma corrective image.
As soon as I do this myself, I'll tell you how to do it.
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 2 2007, 06:23 PM']Success! My initial tests prove the 3d effect is obtainable though not the easiest thing to pull off with 2 monitors temporarily canted at a 90 degree angle to one another while one hand trys to hold the mirror steady enough to get the images synchronized enough to pull the 3d images off. It took a bit of time, but I finally lined everything up and gave it a test drive in Company of Heros. [/quote]Can you lean it against anything like I did? Sounds great though.
[quote]It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.[/quote]That was exactly what I was thinking, I just don't have the budget to pull it off. I keep imagining one made of 2x4s, but I was also thinking of a simple one involving a piece of square tubing with a bend in the middle, you know "KIS" (I shouldn't be calling anyone stupid ;)).
[quote]Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.[/quote]I don't think that those settings have anything to do with the games, just the stereo test application. Can you uncheck the box "Hide modes that this monitor can't support" in the "Screen Resolutions and settings" section?
Barring that is there a config file you can edit for that resolution? Is the 6800GT a 256MB card?
I would love to try the 8800 series stereo drivers, I have heard of one person getting them to work with the 158 series Forceware. I think you have to manually add a registry setting to make the Classic control panel appear, because that is where the settings tabs are. I would definitely try that, see my sig, you have to sign up for the forums though.
[quote]I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
[right][snapback]192580[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]That was my first thought as I read of your aluminum goals :D, please do when you are ready.
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 3 2007, 12:00 PM']Hey nubie, I bought my own mirror and glasses. I got some of the $2.75 plastic framed generic ones, and a Terminator.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.[/quote]I originally bought the $3 squares of polarizer for my projectors, since I don't need them for that I can make an even higher quality pair of glasses. I am thinking that they could be made to fit in any comfortable frames you like, or in my case somehow attached to my glasses. They should be much higher quality than the ones in any of the glasses.
On a side note Lumenlab.com forums is full of people stripping the actual polarized layer from their LCDs and putting on expensive high-quality polarizers, that could only help the effect and contrast, but since it is so expensive it probably is only worth it if you are going for the ultimate 3D display.
[quote]I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety). [/quote]Wow, hard core, I didn't expect so many people to be doing this (although I hoped), do either of you have a current 3D setup? Please report on how it compares to your other setups.
[quote]I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
[right][snapback]192873[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Cool, I just can't imagine those 24" LCDs running dual-output stereo, maybe on an 8800 series. The drivers work according to that one guy, and it is only $280 for me to grab a GTS 320MB :D :D, but I don't think I am right now.
Off-topic: What is up with the hole in the Nvidia 8-series? I have a 7900GS 650mhz OC and I can't upgrade it for less than $200, either a 8800 or a 79 series with 512MB of ram (7950GT, 7900GT, 7900GTX hah, the last one is still more expensive than a 8800GTS!!).
The 7900GS has a 256-bit bus width, and the 8600 series only has 128-bit and 32 stream processors vs the 7900GS 20 pixel and 7 vertex. I really wish an 8700/8600 Ultra would come out with at the very least a 256-bit memory bus, even if it only had 32 stream processors instead of 48. Maybe they are trying to move the 7900/7950 series cards until DX10 is in use? My 7900GS is faster than the 8600 Ultra in every test!! Come on Nvidia and get a mainstream card out that is worth something! (or just drop the 8800GTS 320MB $50 ;), either one is fine by me).
Any way you slice it I wish I had an 8800 series so I could try out the 3D drivers, I actually should install the 158 Forceware on my 7900GS, I have heard it is easy to do, and perhaps the stereo drivers are more compatible :).
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 2 2007, 06:23 PM']Success! My initial tests prove the 3d effect is obtainable though not the easiest thing to pull off with 2 monitors temporarily canted at a 90 degree angle to one another while one hand trys to hold the mirror steady enough to get the images synchronized enough to pull the 3d images off. It took a bit of time, but I finally lined everything up and gave it a test drive in Company of Heros. Can you lean it against anything like I did? Sounds great though.
It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.
That was exactly what I was thinking, I just don't have the budget to pull it off. I keep imagining one made of 2x4s, but I was also thinking of a simple one involving a piece of square tubing with a bend in the middle, you know "KIS" (I shouldn't be calling anyone stupid ;)).
Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.
I don't think that those settings have anything to do with the games, just the stereo test application. Can you uncheck the box "Hide modes that this monitor can't support" in the "Screen Resolutions and settings" section?
Barring that is there a config file you can edit for that resolution? Is the 6800GT a 256MB card?
I would love to try the 8800 series stereo drivers, I have heard of one person getting them to work with the 158 series Forceware. I think you have to manually add a registry setting to make the Classic control panel appear, because that is where the settings tabs are. I would definitely try that, see my sig, you have to sign up for the forums though.
I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
[snapback]192580[/snapback]
That was my first thought as I read of your aluminum goals :D, please do when you are ready.
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 3 2007, 12:00 PM']Hey nubie, I bought my own mirror and glasses. I got some of the $2.75 plastic framed generic ones, and a Terminator.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.I originally bought the $3 squares of polarizer for my projectors, since I don't need them for that I can make an even higher quality pair of glasses. I am thinking that they could be made to fit in any comfortable frames you like, or in my case somehow attached to my glasses. They should be much higher quality than the ones in any of the glasses.
On a side note Lumenlab.com forums is full of people stripping the actual polarized layer from their LCDs and putting on expensive high-quality polarizers, that could only help the effect and contrast, but since it is so expensive it probably is only worth it if you are going for the ultimate 3D display.
I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety).
Wow, hard core, I didn't expect so many people to be doing this (although I hoped), do either of you have a current 3D setup? Please report on how it compares to your other setups.
I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
[snapback]192873[/snapback]
Cool, I just can't imagine those 24" LCDs running dual-output stereo, maybe on an 8800 series. The drivers work according to that one guy, and it is only $280 for me to grab a GTS 320MB :D :D, but I don't think I am right now.
Off-topic: What is up with the hole in the Nvidia 8-series? I have a 7900GS 650mhz OC and I can't upgrade it for less than $200, either a 8800 or a 79 series with 512MB of ram (7950GT, 7900GT, 7900GTX hah, the last one is still more expensive than a 8800GTS!!).
The 7900GS has a 256-bit bus width, and the 8600 series only has 128-bit and 32 stream processors vs the 7900GS 20 pixel and 7 vertex. I really wish an 8700/8600 Ultra would come out with at the very least a 256-bit memory bus, even if it only had 32 stream processors instead of 48. Maybe they are trying to move the 7900/7950 series cards until DX10 is in use? My 7900GS is faster than the 8600 Ultra in every test!! Come on Nvidia and get a mainstream card out that is worth something! (or just drop the 8800GTS 320MB $50 ;), either one is fine by me).
Any way you slice it I wish I had an 8800 series so I could try out the 3D drivers, I actually should install the 158 Forceware on my 7900GS, I have heard it is easy to do, and perhaps the stereo drivers are more compatible :).
Nubie : where on Lumenlabs do they discuss this? Honestly, do you think it would be worth doing or a waste of energy? After all, if your current glasses already block 100% of the light at one angle, and allow through all of it that you can see the other, you can't improve it further.
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)
Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?
Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)
ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
Nubie : where on Lumenlabs do they discuss this? Honestly, do you think it would be worth doing or a waste of energy? After all, if your current glasses already block 100% of the light at one angle, and allow through all of it that you can see the other, you can't improve it further.
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)
Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?
Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)
ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
Thanks for the tips, I ended up getting the resolution resolved - it had something to do with reverting to the previous NVidia drivers and/or the Gateway eztune software. I've got the monitor stand about 50% complete now, it looks great and will be functional, but if I had it to do over again I would have opted for a wooden box enclosure - wood would have been much easier to work with than the alumunium has proven to be and it also would have been cheaper!
Good info on the ambient light, I had already decided to add side screens to my enclosure to cut down on the room reflections on the mirror. I think the setup is going to work very well when it is complete, which looks to be next week since I'm out of town this weekend. I'll get some more work done tonight and then ithe rest of the project will have to wait until Monday.
Regarding the new forceware/stereo development drivers - I'm not too keen on trying out the alpha stereo drivers for the 8800 cards since it sounds as if they are extremely buggy even if you do manage to get them quasi-operational. I'll just wait until NVidia gets their act together and releases a proper beta version. Of course I may change my mind if we still don't have a driver in 4 months....
BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
Thanks for the tips, I ended up getting the resolution resolved - it had something to do with reverting to the previous NVidia drivers and/or the Gateway eztune software. I've got the monitor stand about 50% complete now, it looks great and will be functional, but if I had it to do over again I would have opted for a wooden box enclosure - wood would have been much easier to work with than the alumunium has proven to be and it also would have been cheaper!
Good info on the ambient light, I had already decided to add side screens to my enclosure to cut down on the room reflections on the mirror. I think the setup is going to work very well when it is complete, which looks to be next week since I'm out of town this weekend. I'll get some more work done tonight and then ithe rest of the project will have to wait until Monday.
Regarding the new forceware/stereo development drivers - I'm not too keen on trying out the alpha stereo drivers for the 8800 cards since it sounds as if they are extremely buggy even if you do manage to get them quasi-operational. I'll just wait until NVidia gets their act together and releases a proper beta version. Of course I may change my mind if we still don't have a driver in 4 months....
BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 3 2007, 01:01 PM']Nubie : where on Lumenlabs do they discuss this? Honestly, do you think it would be worth doing or a waste of energy? After all, if your current glasses already block 100% of the light at one angle, and allow through all of it that you can see the other, you can't improve it further.
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)[/quote]
Here is one thread, I know there are more, perhaps a google search of the site for "SHC" would work. [url="http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16166"]http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16166[/url]
I was just mentioning for the pure ultimate setup (this was before I found out how much of an enthusiast you were /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' />, and I believe that it just isn't possible for the manufacturers of these LCD panels to use the best polarizing material, just because of price constraints, possibly on $XXX and more projectors they do. It might not be worth it because of the danger involved in stripping off the old ones (they are so attached that it first appears that it is one piece with the LCD glass, although it isn't) and the difference might not be noticeable if you aren't projecting, some of those guys have a 400 watt halide light bulb behind the panel and project up to 12 feet diagonally!! Probably too extreme.
[quote]Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?[/quote]Sorry, they were on Berizin3D.com and right under the polarizing glasses, they are $15 for two 3" squares, I recalled looking to make sure I put the price, and I must have missed the $3 remark because I thought it was in reference to the plastic glasses again.
[quote]Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)[/quote]Yep, I guess we can rely on you for all of the neat settings we miss :), thanks. I have only tried the edimensional glasses on a CRT, so that is what I am basing my comparisons on (I hated the edims, they had very poor contrast, in my thinking, and the drivers kept de-syncing, I may have fiddled it out, but I was getting a headache due to my trouble with flickering light, so I gave it up, all the fiddling in the world wouldn't have fixed the contrast issue, these polarizing lenses blow it out of the water.)
[quote]ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
[right][snapback]192893[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Thanks! I am still debating on the 8800GTS 320 (it rules, even puts a smack-down on the 8800 640 in a lot of tests), if it hits $250 with no rebate I might just get one.
I was also thinking of the dual-vga output modes, if you were to arrange 4 mirrors you could direct-view the screens with no polarization whatsoever, in fact nothing physical between your eyes and the screen.
As long as you fix it so that it looks straight ahead, I don't think you could get a higher quality setup. In fact if you put the screens side-by-side, you can take your choice of which method you want to use.
There is a dual VGA method that doesn't mirror the second display. I only mention because you seem so enthused with the idea, and you might appreciate the trade-off between complexity and perfect image (well, perfect image bounced off of two mirrors, but a front-surface mirror is mirrored on the surface, so the light doesn't even pass through the glass first!)
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 4 2007, 11:26 AM']BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
[right][snapback]193289[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Planar is quoted as having a 110° angle, so I would try that, it shouldn't really make a difference as long as the mirror bisects the angle.
I don't know about all the ambient light, if Planar can sell them for $4,000 maybe it works well enough, but I don't know what they recommend for viewing, maybe someone should check on that.
Beta drivers don't bother me, but I don't have an 8800 to try it on :(. You are probably right to wait, as these aren't even released beta drivers (although they don't seem to ever release Beta stereo drivers, I got the last couple from Guru3D.com).
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 3 2007, 01:01 PM']Nubie : where on Lumenlabs do they discuss this? Honestly, do you think it would be worth doing or a waste of energy? After all, if your current glasses already block 100% of the light at one angle, and allow through all of it that you can see the other, you can't improve it further.
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)
I was just mentioning for the pure ultimate setup (this was before I found out how much of an enthusiast you were /smile2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':))' />, and I believe that it just isn't possible for the manufacturers of these LCD panels to use the best polarizing material, just because of price constraints, possibly on $XXX and more projectors they do. It might not be worth it because of the danger involved in stripping off the old ones (they are so attached that it first appears that it is one piece with the LCD glass, although it isn't) and the difference might not be noticeable if you aren't projecting, some of those guys have a 400 watt halide light bulb behind the panel and project up to 12 feet diagonally!! Probably too extreme.
Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?
Sorry, they were on Berizin3D.com and right under the polarizing glasses, they are $15 for two 3" squares, I recalled looking to make sure I put the price, and I must have missed the $3 remark because I thought it was in reference to the plastic glasses again.
Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)
Yep, I guess we can rely on you for all of the neat settings we miss :), thanks. I have only tried the edimensional glasses on a CRT, so that is what I am basing my comparisons on (I hated the edims, they had very poor contrast, in my thinking, and the drivers kept de-syncing, I may have fiddled it out, but I was getting a headache due to my trouble with flickering light, so I gave it up, all the fiddling in the world wouldn't have fixed the contrast issue, these polarizing lenses blow it out of the water.)
ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
[snapback]192893[/snapback]
Thanks! I am still debating on the 8800GTS 320 (it rules, even puts a smack-down on the 8800 640 in a lot of tests), if it hits $250 with no rebate I might just get one.
I was also thinking of the dual-vga output modes, if you were to arrange 4 mirrors you could direct-view the screens with no polarization whatsoever, in fact nothing physical between your eyes and the screen.
As long as you fix it so that it looks straight ahead, I don't think you could get a higher quality setup. In fact if you put the screens side-by-side, you can take your choice of which method you want to use.
There is a dual VGA method that doesn't mirror the second display. I only mention because you seem so enthused with the idea, and you might appreciate the trade-off between complexity and perfect image (well, perfect image bounced off of two mirrors, but a front-surface mirror is mirrored on the surface, so the light doesn't even pass through the glass first!)
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 4 2007, 11:26 AM']BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
[snapback]193289[/snapback]
Planar is quoted as having a 110° angle, so I would try that, it shouldn't really make a difference as long as the mirror bisects the angle.
I don't know about all the ambient light, if Planar can sell them for $4,000 maybe it works well enough, but I don't know what they recommend for viewing, maybe someone should check on that.
Beta drivers don't bother me, but I don't have an 8800 to try it on :(. You are probably right to wait, as these aren't even released beta drivers (although they don't seem to ever release Beta stereo drivers, I got the last couple from Guru3D.com).
Nubie - wow, yet another 3d method. This one appears to require a totally still head.
Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.
DESPERATE SOLUTION
I will format this partition on my hard drive (I have 2 OS installations : one is for 64 bit windows which I use for non-3d stuff. I'll reinstall windows and all needed gaming drivers. Then I'll create a disk image of that partition using Acronis Imaging and install just Far Cry by itself. Tweak with it until it works and save the entire partition as a working OS + drivers install.
It IS worth it because Far Cry is the one game, when you get the stinking game to load up without hard locking the computer due to problems with the Nvidia drivers, that actually works in stereo correctly with fantastic graphics. All the objects, even the far off parts of the jungle, are at correct depth. Helicopters, streams of bullets, shadows, bump mapping, HDR lighting, refraction - it all works in glorious, hyper-realistic 3d. The game looks good in 2d, but unbelievable in 3d. Best graphics I have ever seen.
So I'll probably have to have a 6 gigabyte or so disk image file that I have to install whenever I want to play the silly game. (you just load up from an Acronis boot disk)
UGGH. But I can't think of any other solution : doing actions that SHOULD have no effect on whether it works can break the 3d. Just uninstalling the drivers, running cleanup, then reinstalling can somehow (despite the fact that it SHOULDN'T) break it. Far Cry doesn't uninstall itself either somehow. I uninstall the game, try to reinstall, patch it. Game complains, as I run patch program, that the game has already been patched. Game can then somehow end up starting with mouselook not working, on a fresh install.
I can see why PC gaming is dying : software is WAAAY too glitchy, unreliable, and inconistent and hard to make work.
And, this is pre-Vista. Vista is so incredibly complicated and causes so many problems, that it might be years after the forced adoption of Vista (through DX 10) before PC gaming even "works" like it does today.
OTOH, this complete rewrite of Windows and forced rewrite of all the device drivers might just improve things. Eventually.
It's a shame : 3d is the absolute best graphics you can get. It can make even Deus Ex, which was released in June 2000 - SEVEN years ago - look pretty good.
Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
Nubie - wow, yet another 3d method. This one appears to require a totally still head.
Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.
DESPERATE SOLUTION
I will format this partition on my hard drive (I have 2 OS installations : one is for 64 bit windows which I use for non-3d stuff. I'll reinstall windows and all needed gaming drivers. Then I'll create a disk image of that partition using Acronis Imaging and install just Far Cry by itself. Tweak with it until it works and save the entire partition as a working OS + drivers install.
It IS worth it because Far Cry is the one game, when you get the stinking game to load up without hard locking the computer due to problems with the Nvidia drivers, that actually works in stereo correctly with fantastic graphics. All the objects, even the far off parts of the jungle, are at correct depth. Helicopters, streams of bullets, shadows, bump mapping, HDR lighting, refraction - it all works in glorious, hyper-realistic 3d. The game looks good in 2d, but unbelievable in 3d. Best graphics I have ever seen.
So I'll probably have to have a 6 gigabyte or so disk image file that I have to install whenever I want to play the silly game. (you just load up from an Acronis boot disk)
UGGH. But I can't think of any other solution : doing actions that SHOULD have no effect on whether it works can break the 3d. Just uninstalling the drivers, running cleanup, then reinstalling can somehow (despite the fact that it SHOULDN'T) break it. Far Cry doesn't uninstall itself either somehow. I uninstall the game, try to reinstall, patch it. Game complains, as I run patch program, that the game has already been patched. Game can then somehow end up starting with mouselook not working, on a fresh install.
I can see why PC gaming is dying : software is WAAAY too glitchy, unreliable, and inconistent and hard to make work.
And, this is pre-Vista. Vista is so incredibly complicated and causes so many problems, that it might be years after the forced adoption of Vista (through DX 10) before PC gaming even "works" like it does today.
OTOH, this complete rewrite of Windows and forced rewrite of all the device drivers might just improve things. Eventually.
It's a shame : 3d is the absolute best graphics you can get. It can make even Deus Ex, which was released in June 2000 - SEVEN years ago - look pretty good.
Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 4 2007, 01:18 PM']Nubie - wow, yet another 3d method. This one appears to require a totally still head.[/quote]Not really, but pretty close, I thought you mentioned a head-keeping-still chair? You could always make the mirrors into a pair of glasses :), but yeah, and rotating of the head would cause a problem, but as long as each eye saw a different screen it would work great. I ultimately want an affordable ~$500, high-res (minimum 1024x768, preferably 1280x1024), Head-mounted Display, too bad it isn't here yet :(.
[quote]Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.[/quote]I had a perfect setup on my old hard drive, but I am not sure how I got there, I know for sure that I made a pair of these:
And then I updated to these on the forceware:
[url="http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_downloads_winxp_2k_32bit_93.81.html"]http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_download...2bit_93.81.html[/url]
The question is what I did before that, I am still trying to work it all out. If DirectX would support rendering of two viewports this would all be a non-issue. Bah, the nvidia drivers are just a Hack. And DX10 hype and Vista just made the already lousy support worse. Eventually things might get better, but it will be 3-5 years down the road, and then M$ will try to force Xista on us (Xta??).
[quote]Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
[right][snapback]193333[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well, most people view from an angle above the monitor looking down, that is the best ergonomically, probably why Planar designed it that way.
The back monitor will not appear square anyway, as long as the mirror is bisecting the angle perfectly the monitors will be appear equally trapezoidal, something our brain copes with every day.
I am pretty sure that the monitors will remain lined up. In my pictures, despite the angle I took them at the picture from each monitor appears completely lined up.
Also the monitors could be rotated equally to face you directly, even though you look down at them, this would keep the overly trapezoidal image you mention to a minimum.
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 4 2007, 01:18 PM']Nubie - wow, yet another 3d method. This one appears to require a totally still head.Not really, but pretty close, I thought you mentioned a head-keeping-still chair? You could always make the mirrors into a pair of glasses :), but yeah, and rotating of the head would cause a problem, but as long as each eye saw a different screen it would work great. I ultimately want an affordable ~$500, high-res (minimum 1024x768, preferably 1280x1024), Head-mounted Display, too bad it isn't here yet :(.
Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.
I had a perfect setup on my old hard drive, but I am not sure how I got there, I know for sure that I made a pair of these:
The question is what I did before that, I am still trying to work it all out. If DirectX would support rendering of two viewports this would all be a non-issue. Bah, the nvidia drivers are just a Hack. And DX10 hype and Vista just made the already lousy support worse. Eventually things might get better, but it will be 3-5 years down the road, and then M$ will try to force Xista on us (Xta??).
Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
[snapback]193333[/snapback]
Well, most people view from an angle above the monitor looking down, that is the best ergonomically, probably why Planar designed it that way.
The back monitor will not appear square anyway, as long as the mirror is bisecting the angle perfectly the monitors will be appear equally trapezoidal, something our brain copes with every day.
I am pretty sure that the monitors will remain lined up. In my pictures, despite the angle I took them at the picture from each monitor appears completely lined up.
Also the monitors could be rotated equally to face you directly, even though you look down at them, this would keep the overly trapezoidal image you mention to a minimum.
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
Easyest way to get the stereo working is by downloading the dragon 3D settings tweaker. [url="http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126"]http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126[/url]
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
Easyest way to get the stereo working is by downloading the dragon 3D settings tweaker. http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
Easyest way to get the stereo working is by downloading the dragon 3D settings tweaker. [url="http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126"]http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126[/url]
[right][snapback]191899[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Thanks :)
Any news on how compatible? Dual output modes working?
The .net panels are so crappy that I regret buying the 8800 as it is nothing but trouble.
Easyest way to get the stereo working is by downloading the dragon 3D settings tweaker. http://www.really.ru/eng/dload.php?action=file&file_id=126
Thanks :)
Any news on how compatible? Dual output modes working?
Thanks guys.
George
Thanks guys.
George
Thanks guys.
George
[right][snapback]192318[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
There is always a bit of "bleed", but it is also dependant on the ambient lighting, if you have a window open or a light on your pupil will usually close so that you see only black through the blocking lens.
Just hold the glasses in front of the monitor and rotate them, you will see the "zones" where the lenses block the light. If one of the zones is with the glasses oriented as you wear them, then you are good.
[img]http://lh6.google.com/image/nubie07/Rjjk_Gkt58I/AAAAAAAAAPU/DejY5rXsBTg/s400/DSCF0107.JPG[/img]
[img]http://lh5.google.com/image/nubie07/RjjlF2kt59I/AAAAAAAAAPo/sHnmat7FQ2U/s400/DSCF0111.JPG[/img]
We aren't really concerned with totally blocking the light, just making enough of a contrast that our eyes/brain are fooled, if you see the above pictures, that is plenty of contrast.
As I said, in a dim room a pupil will dilate and the percieved contrast is reduced because the blocked light is more visible than the surrounding ambient light.
Thanks guys.
George
There is always a bit of "bleed", but it is also dependant on the ambient lighting, if you have a window open or a light on your pupil will usually close so that you see only black through the blocking lens.
Just hold the glasses in front of the monitor and rotate them, you will see the "zones" where the lenses block the light. If one of the zones is with the glasses oriented as you wear them, then you are good.
We aren't really concerned with totally blocking the light, just making enough of a contrast that our eyes/brain are fooled, if you see the above pictures, that is plenty of contrast.
As I said, in a dim room a pupil will dilate and the percieved contrast is reduced because the blocked light is more visible than the surrounding ambient light.
It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.
Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.
I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.
Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.
I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.
I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. (rather than having to buy another mirror later, and build the box again for a bigger screen)
I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety).
Basically, one uses the home theater calculator or solves the system of equations to find the height and width of your monitors. The home theater calculator is : [url="http://www.carltonbale.com/home-theater/home-theater-calculator/"]http://www.carltonbale.com/home-theater/ho...ter-calculator/[/url]
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Dotted line is where the mirror is. So the formula is : minimum mirror WIDTH is equal to the WIDTH of the screen on the monitor. Minimum HEIGHT is the HYPOTENUSE of the triangle formed by the two monitor screen heights. So the pythagoreum theorem.
I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
I am a perfectionist for things like this, so after I get my mirror I plan to build a box out of wood to hold it. Blocking ambient light will help to give the maximum possible contrast and the most vivid, realistic images.
I am also thinking about building a headrest to go along with a special "gamer" chair I have. Or maybe an inverted position. The headrest will keep your head from rotating.
The monitors need to be aligned perfectly, by cloning an identical image to each one for a guide, and I am thinking of building a mount that uses nuts and bolts for fine adjustment. The perfect alignment will help you see things like heads up displays that are part of the image in a game.
Nubie : the reason your setup is so bright is that almost all the light from any LCD is polarized at 45 degrees. It is an inherent property of the liquid crystals themselves, not a polarizing screen added to the stack. So while the glasses you wear allow only 37 percent of total light through, ALL the light is polarized and so ALL of it gets through.
The only losses are in the mirror itself : 50%. That cuts the peak brightness the LCD can reach by half, as well as cuts the color of black down by half as well. This is why a setup that blocks ambient light is best : the contrast is still there in our setup, but you have to block out competing light.
You also have to block light being reflected OFF OF the LCD itself!!! THAT is why light leaks through the polarized glasses : you ONLY want light coming from the LCD backlight to get through to your eyes. You do NOT want ordinary room light to hit the LCD matrix and come back at you : some of that light would sneak through the wrong lens on your glasses.
So, a setup made of wood like a cabinet to block out external light works the best. I am thinking a hood or using this system at night would also work best.
Each screen also needs to be independently calibrated for gamma and black level. Those help immensely in getting accurate color reproduction, and you have to calibrate them after building your setup because obviously the mirror and glasses and everything will all affect it. I have 2 images I use for correcting black level and contrast, and I use a photo website for a gamma corrective image.
As soon as I do this myself, I'll tell you how to do it.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.
I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. (rather than having to buy another mirror later, and build the box again for a bigger screen)
I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety).
Basically, one uses the home theater calculator or solves the system of equations to find the height and width of your monitors. The home theater calculator is : http://www.carltonbale.com/home-theater/ho...ter-calculator/
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Dotted line is where the mirror is. So the formula is : minimum mirror WIDTH is equal to the WIDTH of the screen on the monitor. Minimum HEIGHT is the HYPOTENUSE of the triangle formed by the two monitor screen heights. So the pythagoreum theorem.
I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
I am a perfectionist for things like this, so after I get my mirror I plan to build a box out of wood to hold it. Blocking ambient light will help to give the maximum possible contrast and the most vivid, realistic images.
I am also thinking about building a headrest to go along with a special "gamer" chair I have. Or maybe an inverted position. The headrest will keep your head from rotating.
The monitors need to be aligned perfectly, by cloning an identical image to each one for a guide, and I am thinking of building a mount that uses nuts and bolts for fine adjustment. The perfect alignment will help you see things like heads up displays that are part of the image in a game.
Nubie : the reason your setup is so bright is that almost all the light from any LCD is polarized at 45 degrees. It is an inherent property of the liquid crystals themselves, not a polarizing screen added to the stack. So while the glasses you wear allow only 37 percent of total light through, ALL the light is polarized and so ALL of it gets through.
The only losses are in the mirror itself : 50%. That cuts the peak brightness the LCD can reach by half, as well as cuts the color of black down by half as well. This is why a setup that blocks ambient light is best : the contrast is still there in our setup, but you have to block out competing light.
You also have to block light being reflected OFF OF the LCD itself!!! THAT is why light leaks through the polarized glasses : you ONLY want light coming from the LCD backlight to get through to your eyes. You do NOT want ordinary room light to hit the LCD matrix and come back at you : some of that light would sneak through the wrong lens on your glasses.
So, a setup made of wood like a cabinet to block out external light works the best. I am thinking a hood or using this system at night would also work best.
Each screen also needs to be independently calibrated for gamma and black level. Those help immensely in getting accurate color reproduction, and you have to calibrate them after building your setup because obviously the mirror and glasses and everything will all affect it. I have 2 images I use for correcting black level and contrast, and I use a photo website for a gamma corrective image.
As soon as I do this myself, I'll tell you how to do it.
[quote]It looks good! The 3d effect is quite noticable and the image was brighter than I thought it would be with the polarized glasses. I'm looking forward to building my permanent monitor stand now (picked up a bunch of alumnium pieces from Lowes that I intend to put together in a suitably futuristic albeit it functional monitor stand). I've got a design worked out so that I can rotate the top monitor 90 degrees and run both monitors as vertically spanned desktops at (1680X2100) resolution when I'm not running 3d.[/quote]That was exactly what I was thinking, I just don't have the budget to pull it off. I keep imagining one made of 2x4s, but I was also thinking of a simple one involving a piece of square tubing with a bend in the middle, you know "KIS" (I shouldn't be calling anyone stupid ;)).
[quote]Only downside I see is that right now I can't seem to get the resolution in Call of Duty to go up to native monitor resolution (1680X1050) right now it wouldn't go higher than 1280*1024. In fact, the NVidia controls won't allow me to set the 3D panel resolution past 1280*1024, even though I have selected a 22 inch wide monitor. Any suggestions on what to do here or is this a stereo driver limitation with this version? Oh yeah, another downside is that I'm having to run my 6800 GT card instead of my 8800 GTS until NVida acutally gets some new sterio drivers out for us.[/quote]I don't think that those settings have anything to do with the games, just the stereo test application. Can you uncheck the box "Hide modes that this monitor can't support" in the "Screen Resolutions and settings" section?
Barring that is there a config file you can edit for that resolution? Is the 6800GT a 256MB card?
I would love to try the 8800 series stereo drivers, I have heard of one person getting them to work with the 158 series Forceware. I think you have to manually add a registry setting to make the Classic control panel appear, because that is where the settings tabs are. I would definitely try that, see my sig, you have to sign up for the forums though.
[quote]I'll post some pics of my setup in action next week after I've had a chance to work on it more.
[right][snapback]192580[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]That was my first thought as I read of your aluminum goals :D, please do when you are ready.
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 3 2007, 12:00 PM']Hey nubie, I bought my own mirror and glasses. I got some of the $2.75 plastic framed generic ones, and a Terminator.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.[/quote]I originally bought the $3 squares of polarizer for my projectors, since I don't need them for that I can make an even higher quality pair of glasses. I am thinking that they could be made to fit in any comfortable frames you like, or in my case somehow attached to my glasses. They should be much higher quality than the ones in any of the glasses.
On a side note Lumenlab.com forums is full of people stripping the actual polarized layer from their LCDs and putting on expensive high-quality polarizers, that could only help the effect and contrast, but since it is so expensive it probably is only worth it if you are going for the ultimate 3D display.
[quote]I paid $107 for the mirror : I decided I wanted to be able to use upgrade to 24" widescreen right frm the start. I calculated a forumula that will allow one to calculate exactly how large the mirror needs to be. (and then add an inch in each direction for safety). [/quote]Wow, hard core, I didn't expect so many people to be doing this (although I hoped), do either of you have a current 3D setup? Please report on how it compares to your other setups.
[quote]I ordered a 21 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 1/8" Teleprompter Mirror.
The reason for those 7/8" is that website rounds down to the nearest inch.
[right][snapback]192873[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Cool, I just can't imagine those 24" LCDs running dual-output stereo, maybe on an 8800 series. The drivers work according to that one guy, and it is only $280 for me to grab a GTS 320MB :D :D, but I don't think I am right now.
Off-topic: What is up with the hole in the Nvidia 8-series? I have a 7900GS 650mhz OC and I can't upgrade it for less than $200, either a 8800 or a 79 series with 512MB of ram (7950GT, 7900GT, 7900GTX hah, the last one is still more expensive than a 8800GTS!!).
The 7900GS has a 256-bit bus width, and the 8600 series only has 128-bit and 32 stream processors vs the 7900GS 20 pixel and 7 vertex. I really wish an 8700/8600 Ultra would come out with at the very least a 256-bit memory bus, even if it only had 32 stream processors instead of 48. Maybe they are trying to move the 7900/7950 series cards until DX10 is in use? My 7900GS is faster than the 8600 Ultra in every test!! Come on Nvidia and get a mainstream card out that is worth something! (or just drop the 8800GTS 320MB $50 ;), either one is fine by me).
Any way you slice it I wish I had an 8800 series so I could try out the 3D drivers, I actually should install the 158 Forceware on my 7900GS, I have heard it is easy to do, and perhaps the stereo drivers are more compatible :).
That was exactly what I was thinking, I just don't have the budget to pull it off. I keep imagining one made of 2x4s, but I was also thinking of a simple one involving a piece of square tubing with a bend in the middle, you know "KIS" (I shouldn't be calling anyone stupid ;)).
I don't think that those settings have anything to do with the games, just the stereo test application. Can you uncheck the box "Hide modes that this monitor can't support" in the "Screen Resolutions and settings" section?
Barring that is there a config file you can edit for that resolution? Is the 6800GT a 256MB card?
I would love to try the 8800 series stereo drivers, I have heard of one person getting them to work with the 158 series Forceware. I think you have to manually add a registry setting to make the Classic control panel appear, because that is where the settings tabs are. I would definitely try that, see my sig, you have to sign up for the forums though.
That was my first thought as I read of your aluminum goals :D, please do when you are ready.
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 3 2007, 12:00 PM']Hey nubie, I bought my own mirror and glasses. I got some of the $2.75 plastic framed generic ones, and a Terminator.
Uggh, it sounds like the plastic ones work better for this application, I assumed that a $13.75 pair of glasses would have better lens. Live and learn, I guess.I originally bought the $3 squares of polarizer for my projectors, since I don't need them for that I can make an even higher quality pair of glasses. I am thinking that they could be made to fit in any comfortable frames you like, or in my case somehow attached to my glasses. They should be much higher quality than the ones in any of the glasses.
On a side note Lumenlab.com forums is full of people stripping the actual polarized layer from their LCDs and putting on expensive high-quality polarizers, that could only help the effect and contrast, but since it is so expensive it probably is only worth it if you are going for the ultimate 3D display.
Wow, hard core, I didn't expect so many people to be doing this (although I hoped), do either of you have a current 3D setup? Please report on how it compares to your other setups.
Cool, I just can't imagine those 24" LCDs running dual-output stereo, maybe on an 8800 series. The drivers work according to that one guy, and it is only $280 for me to grab a GTS 320MB :D :D, but I don't think I am right now.
Off-topic: What is up with the hole in the Nvidia 8-series? I have a 7900GS 650mhz OC and I can't upgrade it for less than $200, either a 8800 or a 79 series with 512MB of ram (7950GT, 7900GT, 7900GTX hah, the last one is still more expensive than a 8800GTS!!).
The 7900GS has a 256-bit bus width, and the 8600 series only has 128-bit and 32 stream processors vs the 7900GS 20 pixel and 7 vertex. I really wish an 8700/8600 Ultra would come out with at the very least a 256-bit memory bus, even if it only had 32 stream processors instead of 48. Maybe they are trying to move the 7900/7950 series cards until DX10 is in use? My 7900GS is faster than the 8600 Ultra in every test!! Come on Nvidia and get a mainstream card out that is worth something! (or just drop the 8800GTS 320MB $50 ;), either one is fine by me).
Any way you slice it I wish I had an 8800 series so I could try out the 3D drivers, I actually should install the 158 Forceware on my 7900GS, I have heard it is easy to do, and perhaps the stereo drivers are more compatible :).
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)
Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?
Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)
ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)
Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?
Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)
ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
Good info on the ambient light, I had already decided to add side screens to my enclosure to cut down on the room reflections on the mirror. I think the setup is going to work very well when it is complete, which looks to be next week since I'm out of town this weekend. I'll get some more work done tonight and then ithe rest of the project will have to wait until Monday.
Regarding the new forceware/stereo development drivers - I'm not too keen on trying out the alpha stereo drivers for the 8800 cards since it sounds as if they are extremely buggy even if you do manage to get them quasi-operational. I'll just wait until NVidia gets their act together and releases a proper beta version. Of course I may change my mind if we still don't have a driver in 4 months....
BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
Good info on the ambient light, I had already decided to add side screens to my enclosure to cut down on the room reflections on the mirror. I think the setup is going to work very well when it is complete, which looks to be next week since I'm out of town this weekend. I'll get some more work done tonight and then ithe rest of the project will have to wait until Monday.
Regarding the new forceware/stereo development drivers - I'm not too keen on trying out the alpha stereo drivers for the 8800 cards since it sounds as if they are extremely buggy even if you do manage to get them quasi-operational. I'll just wait until NVidia gets their act together and releases a proper beta version. Of course I may change my mind if we still don't have a driver in 4 months....
BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)[/quote]
Here is one thread, I know there are more, perhaps a google search of the site for "SHC" would work. [url="http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16166"]http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16166[/url]
I was just mentioning for the pure ultimate setup (this was before I found out how much of an enthusiast you were
[quote]Nubie : where did you get the pieces of polarizing film?[/quote]Sorry, they were on Berizin3D.com and right under the polarizing glasses, they are $15 for two 3" squares, I recalled looking to make sure I put the price, and I must have missed the $3 remark because I thought it was in reference to the plastic glasses again.
[quote]Nubie : I decided to spent $150 because I was so impressed with the incredible image one can get with shutter glasses and a CRT. It can look scarily real, and games that stereo was never considered for do it quite well once you tweak a few basic settings. (like, in Deus Ex : you disable light halos and triple buffereing. after that, it's perfect)[/quote]Yep, I guess we can rely on you for all of the neat settings we miss :), thanks. I have only tried the edimensional glasses on a CRT, so that is what I am basing my comparisons on (I hated the edims, they had very poor contrast, in my thinking, and the drivers kept de-syncing, I may have fiddled it out, but I was getting a headache due to my trouble with flickering light, so I gave it up, all the fiddling in the world wouldn't have fixed the contrast issue, these polarizing lenses blow it out of the water.)
[quote]ZEBRA : I just checked.
It is NOT THE DRIVERS. I was able to do up to 1920x1200 in a CLONE mode using nvidias test application, with Planar mirror selected as the output. (I was sending it to 2 crts and didn't actually try to see the stereo, but I COULD see that the 2 images were different and one was reversed, so I am SURE it works.)
I can help you set your drivers up properly as soon as my setup arrives. I noticed some other settings in the drivers that will be important : individual color correction for each display. Since one display transmits through the mirror, and the other reflects, you need to calibrate each display.
If you need help with Call of Duty 2, try the widescreen gaming forum.
[right][snapback]192893[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Thanks! I am still debating on the 8800GTS 320 (it rules, even puts a smack-down on the 8800 640 in a lot of tests), if it hits $250 with no rebate I might just get one.
I was also thinking of the dual-vga output modes, if you were to arrange 4 mirrors you could direct-view the screens with no polarization whatsoever, in fact nothing physical between your eyes and the screen.
[img]http://lh4.google.com/image/nubie07/RjuAQ2kt6DI/AAAAAAAAAQw/4A_NmSpVWdY/s800/Mirror%203D.JPG[/img]
As long as you fix it so that it looks straight ahead, I don't think you could get a higher quality setup. In fact if you put the screens side-by-side, you can take your choice of which method you want to use.
There is a dual VGA method that doesn't mirror the second display. I only mention because you seem so enthused with the idea, and you might appreciate the trade-off between complexity and perfect image (well, perfect image bounced off of two mirrors, but a front-surface mirror is mirrored on the surface, so the light doesn't even pass through the glass first!)
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 4 2007, 11:26 AM']BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
[right][snapback]193289[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Planar is quoted as having a 110° angle, so I would try that, it shouldn't really make a difference as long as the mirror bisects the angle.
I don't know about all the ambient light, if Planar can sell them for $4,000 maybe it works well enough, but I don't know what they recommend for viewing, maybe someone should check on that.
Beta drivers don't bother me, but I don't have an 8800 to try it on :(. You are probably right to wait, as these aren't even released beta drivers (although they don't seem to ever release Beta stereo drivers, I got the last couple from Guru3D.com).
Update : I looked further. No, aftermarket polarizers are NOT worth it. A high contrast LCD monitor HAS to have a good polarizer. Otherwise, it wouldn't have high contrast. (by definition : I looked up how they work) Only reason to swap a polarizer is when you are taking LCDs apart for more advanced projects. (like, if you wanted to make a 3d monitor or an LCD panel projector)
Here is one thread, I know there are more, perhaps a google search of the site for "SHC" would work. http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16166
I was just mentioning for the pure ultimate setup (this was before I found out how much of an enthusiast you were
Sorry, they were on Berizin3D.com and right under the polarizing glasses, they are $15 for two 3" squares, I recalled looking to make sure I put the price, and I must have missed the $3 remark because I thought it was in reference to the plastic glasses again.
Yep, I guess we can rely on you for all of the neat settings we miss :), thanks. I have only tried the edimensional glasses on a CRT, so that is what I am basing my comparisons on (I hated the edims, they had very poor contrast, in my thinking, and the drivers kept de-syncing, I may have fiddled it out, but I was getting a headache due to my trouble with flickering light, so I gave it up, all the fiddling in the world wouldn't have fixed the contrast issue, these polarizing lenses blow it out of the water.)
Thanks! I am still debating on the 8800GTS 320 (it rules, even puts a smack-down on the 8800 640 in a lot of tests), if it hits $250 with no rebate I might just get one.
I was also thinking of the dual-vga output modes, if you were to arrange 4 mirrors you could direct-view the screens with no polarization whatsoever, in fact nothing physical between your eyes and the screen.
As long as you fix it so that it looks straight ahead, I don't think you could get a higher quality setup. In fact if you put the screens side-by-side, you can take your choice of which method you want to use.
There is a dual VGA method that doesn't mirror the second display. I only mention because you seem so enthused with the idea, and you might appreciate the trade-off between complexity and perfect image (well, perfect image bounced off of two mirrors, but a front-surface mirror is mirrored on the surface, so the light doesn't even pass through the glass first!)
[quote name='zebrastealer' date='May 4 2007, 11:26 AM']BTW - I noticed the Planar setup doesn't have the monitors at a 90 degree angle, instead they appear to be at a 110 or 120 degree angle - I'm wondering if that would work for us as well? A larger angle would be a bit better because the top monitor wouldn't constantly be threatening to hit me in the forhead!
Planar is quoted as having a 110° angle, so I would try that, it shouldn't really make a difference as long as the mirror bisects the angle.
I don't know about all the ambient light, if Planar can sell them for $4,000 maybe it works well enough, but I don't know what they recommend for viewing, maybe someone should check on that.
Beta drivers don't bother me, but I don't have an 8800 to try it on :(. You are probably right to wait, as these aren't even released beta drivers (although they don't seem to ever release Beta stereo drivers, I got the last couple from Guru3D.com).
Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.
DESPERATE SOLUTION
I will format this partition on my hard drive (I have 2 OS installations : one is for 64 bit windows which I use for non-3d stuff. I'll reinstall windows and all needed gaming drivers. Then I'll create a disk image of that partition using Acronis Imaging and install just Far Cry by itself. Tweak with it until it works and save the entire partition as a working OS + drivers install.
It IS worth it because Far Cry is the one game, when you get the stinking game to load up without hard locking the computer due to problems with the Nvidia drivers, that actually works in stereo correctly with fantastic graphics. All the objects, even the far off parts of the jungle, are at correct depth. Helicopters, streams of bullets, shadows, bump mapping, HDR lighting, refraction - it all works in glorious, hyper-realistic 3d. The game looks good in 2d, but unbelievable in 3d. Best graphics I have ever seen.
So I'll probably have to have a 6 gigabyte or so disk image file that I have to install whenever I want to play the silly game. (you just load up from an Acronis boot disk)
UGGH. But I can't think of any other solution : doing actions that SHOULD have no effect on whether it works can break the 3d. Just uninstalling the drivers, running cleanup, then reinstalling can somehow (despite the fact that it SHOULDN'T) break it. Far Cry doesn't uninstall itself either somehow. I uninstall the game, try to reinstall, patch it. Game complains, as I run patch program, that the game has already been patched. Game can then somehow end up starting with mouselook not working, on a fresh install.
I can see why PC gaming is dying : software is WAAAY too glitchy, unreliable, and inconistent and hard to make work.
And, this is pre-Vista. Vista is so incredibly complicated and causes so many problems, that it might be years after the forced adoption of Vista (through DX 10) before PC gaming even "works" like it does today.
OTOH, this complete rewrite of Windows and forced rewrite of all the device drivers might just improve things. Eventually.
It's a shame : 3d is the absolute best graphics you can get. It can make even Deus Ex, which was released in June 2000 - SEVEN years ago - look pretty good.
Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.
DESPERATE SOLUTION
I will format this partition on my hard drive (I have 2 OS installations : one is for 64 bit windows which I use for non-3d stuff. I'll reinstall windows and all needed gaming drivers. Then I'll create a disk image of that partition using Acronis Imaging and install just Far Cry by itself. Tweak with it until it works and save the entire partition as a working OS + drivers install.
It IS worth it because Far Cry is the one game, when you get the stinking game to load up without hard locking the computer due to problems with the Nvidia drivers, that actually works in stereo correctly with fantastic graphics. All the objects, even the far off parts of the jungle, are at correct depth. Helicopters, streams of bullets, shadows, bump mapping, HDR lighting, refraction - it all works in glorious, hyper-realistic 3d. The game looks good in 2d, but unbelievable in 3d. Best graphics I have ever seen.
So I'll probably have to have a 6 gigabyte or so disk image file that I have to install whenever I want to play the silly game. (you just load up from an Acronis boot disk)
UGGH. But I can't think of any other solution : doing actions that SHOULD have no effect on whether it works can break the 3d. Just uninstalling the drivers, running cleanup, then reinstalling can somehow (despite the fact that it SHOULDN'T) break it. Far Cry doesn't uninstall itself either somehow. I uninstall the game, try to reinstall, patch it. Game complains, as I run patch program, that the game has already been patched. Game can then somehow end up starting with mouselook not working, on a fresh install.
I can see why PC gaming is dying : software is WAAAY too glitchy, unreliable, and inconistent and hard to make work.
And, this is pre-Vista. Vista is so incredibly complicated and causes so many problems, that it might be years after the forced adoption of Vista (through DX 10) before PC gaming even "works" like it does today.
OTOH, this complete rewrite of Windows and forced rewrite of all the device drivers might just improve things. Eventually.
It's a shame : 3d is the absolute best graphics you can get. It can make even Deus Ex, which was released in June 2000 - SEVEN years ago - look pretty good.
Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
[quote]Cost is a big advantage with this method : regular mirror glass is dirt cheap, and you could cut up an old mirror if you wanted to lower it to free. I think wearing polarized glasses will be more comfortable, but I'll keep your method in mind.
I have a 52" HDTV...lol, with some REALLY big mirrors maybe I could build a stereo rig with 2 of them. LOL.
Actually, though, I suspect the planar rig will be fine. The main problem today appears to be pure software. I just spent 6 hours yesterday fighting the nvidia drivers to make Far Cry work. SOOOOO frustrating.
I was able to make it work sometimes, but it was incredibly INCONSISTENT. I really don't get what that software is doing behind the scenes to make it act like it does. Sometimes it'll start the game in 3d with HDR lighting. BUT, there's this unplayable artifacting that occurs on distance objects. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Far Cry refuses to load a game level and hard locks at 1/5 loaded.
Different profiles in Far Cry also affect whether it works or not.
AND in some settings (all I had changed was AA) the game refuses to load with 3d ON, but you can load with it off and for some reason in this game ONLY, the cntrl-T hotkey works without locking up my computer.
AMAZINGLY frustrating : not because of the problems, but because they are so inconsistant. Clearly, different programs are leaving temporary files on my hard drive somewhere that then affect what happens when you run it again.[/quote]I had a perfect setup on my old hard drive, but I am not sure how I got there, I know for sure that I made a pair of these:
[url="http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1511"]http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1511[/url]
[url="http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html"]http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html[/url]
And then I updated to these on the forceware:
[url="http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_downloads_winxp_2k_32bit_93.81.html"]http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_download...2bit_93.81.html[/url]
The question is what I did before that, I am still trying to work it all out. If DirectX would support rendering of two viewports this would all be a non-issue. Bah, the nvidia drivers are just a Hack. And DX10 hype and Vista just made the already lousy support worse. Eventually things might get better, but it will be 3-5 years down the road, and then M$ will try to force Xista on us (Xta??).
[quote]Zebra - there's only one consequence I can forsee from using a 110 degree angle.
While the main 3d trick will work fine, there may be some geometry issues. The images will become trapezoidal, and not quite fully aligned. Due to the way our brains process information, this may not be a big issue - also, my trapezoidal statement only applies at a 90 degree viewing angle to the back monitor. Shift your view around a bit, and there is probably a sweet spot.
[right][snapback]193333[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well, most people view from an angle above the monitor looking down, that is the best ergonomically, probably why Planar designed it that way.
The back monitor will not appear square anyway, as long as the mirror is bisecting the angle perfectly the monitors will be appear equally trapezoidal, something our brain copes with every day.
I am pretty sure that the monitors will remain lined up. In my pictures, despite the angle I took them at the picture from each monitor appears completely lined up.
Also the monitors could be rotated equally to face you directly, even though you look down at them, this would keep the overly trapezoidal image you mention to a minimum.
I had a perfect setup on my old hard drive, but I am not sure how I got there, I know for sure that I made a pair of these:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1511
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html
And then I updated to these on the forceware:
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_download...2bit_93.81.html
The question is what I did before that, I am still trying to work it all out. If DirectX would support rendering of two viewports this would all be a non-issue. Bah, the nvidia drivers are just a Hack. And DX10 hype and Vista just made the already lousy support worse. Eventually things might get better, but it will be 3-5 years down the road, and then M$ will try to force Xista on us (Xta??).
Well, most people view from an angle above the monitor looking down, that is the best ergonomically, probably why Planar designed it that way.
The back monitor will not appear square anyway, as long as the mirror is bisecting the angle perfectly the monitors will be appear equally trapezoidal, something our brain copes with every day.
I am pretty sure that the monitors will remain lined up. In my pictures, despite the angle I took them at the picture from each monitor appears completely lined up.
Also the monitors could be rotated equally to face you directly, even though you look down at them, this would keep the overly trapezoidal image you mention to a minimum.