3D Vision in 2018, an insider wants to hear you...
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Greetings everyone, Remember [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/904247/3d-vision/has-nvidia-abandoned-3dvision-for-good-/post/4792381/#4792381]this post[/url]? That's the answer I got from CEO Jensen Huang on January 28th in 2016. My reply to this was: [quote]Thank you for the quick reply. Please be advised that the sooner the better for an annoucement about this. We are many fans of 3D who are waiting for a clear statement from nvidia for their support of 3D Vision.[/quote] Nothing happened. Then on June 14th of 2017 I wrote to him again, also quoting all my previous emails. My message was: [quote]It's been 15 months and we are many fans of 3D still waiting for Nvidia to do something. Patience is a virtue but at one point something needs to happen. You would be kind to have a look yourself at [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1014016/3d-vision/lets-try-another-way-to-improve-3d-vision-/post/5167668/#5167668]this post and the one above[/url], where some of your employees said things which never happened, we are still waiting and dreaming. Please don't let us wait any longer, we fans of 3D Vision are a long due for a driver update to fix problems reported a while ago.[/quote] Well, I'm glad to say that the CEO read much if not all the email he gets and this time he asked someone to get in touch with me. That was on June 19th and that person wrote: [quote]Hello Daniel, I am part of the group that manages 3D Vision at NVIDIA. Jensen asked me to contact you to start a conversation to better understand the concerns voiced in your email to him. There’s a lot listed on the forum, but can you help me with your top 3 priorities? Then I can speak to my superiors, and engineering, about seeing what we can do to get these issues prioritized if at all possible – and then communicate that to the forums. I look forward to hearing from you, thanks in advance. [/quote] I quickly wanted to port the conversation here on this forum because I'm not the expert here so I kind of asked him to get over here and his answer was: [quote]I’d rather keep this between us for the moment, rather than going to the forums, please. [...skip...] Understand, that the market for 3d is not nearly what it once was – 3dtvs are disappearing, and the ecoysystem supporting them, etc. While I am a huge fan of 3D, the existing fanbase is perceived as relatively small by the market overall and that’s why you seen development of new product deemphasized by the market overall, not just NVDIA. That said, there is still considerable effort being put into maintaining the current 3dv product – in terms of frequent driver updates, game profiles, new OS support, etc., etc. [...skip...] I will eventually open this up to the forum, as well, along with a thread on recent 3dv work that many may not be aware of.[/quote] Fine I say, and I replied to a few of his questions. Then I wait... Wait... I ping him back on August 3rd and got a reply saying he was out of office for a bit and that I need to be patient. So I wait... Wait more... On November 28th I send him this: [quote]Checking in! There am I 4 months later... pretty patient, right?[/quote] The next day he replied: [quote]Yes you are, thank you. Hello, I hope you are well. There really is no news to push out to the forums in terms of new developments for 3D Vision. I can put together a statement about the general things we’re doing to support the tech in terms of OS and drivers and such, with a request for reasonable asks from the forum for 2018 – do you think that would help?[/quote] « [b]no news to push out to the forums in terms of new developments for 3D Vision.[/b] » well that says much... Then I wrote about the CPU bottleneck thread and asked if he knew soneone called Ray, he wanted his last name. Since I didn't know, I pointed him to a [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/966422/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-bottelneck-gathering-information-thread-/post/5250073/#5250073]post[/url] from RAGEdemon. I still haven't received a reply from him. And I haven't wrote back to him again for an update because, well... how to explain. My native language is french, I don't have all the english vocabulary to express myself like I would in french. I did my best to be patient but this is going nowhere and from what I could tell and you could also probably guess is that they seems to work just the minimum to keep it alive but that's it. I was curious to hear more about « [b][color="orange"]That said, there is still considerable effort being put into maintaining the current 3dv product – in terms of frequent driver updates, game profiles, new OS support, etc., etc.[/color][/b] » There we are, I decided that time has come to share what looked promising 7 months ago. My plan now is only to point him to this thread and [u][b]if he shows up then have someone to take the lead of this[/b][/u]. I understand it may be easier for him to deal with only one person than a community in which some may show frustration. My suggestion for our best chance to have him here would be to reply to what he asked in his first reply: [quote][b][color="green"]There’s a lot listed on the forum, but can you help me with your top 3 priorities?[/color][/b][/quote] [size="XL"]So I ask the experts here, you know all of you awesome shaderfixers and devs[/size] (3Dmigoto author Chiri and others). I fear to forget names if I start a list so I prefer to skip. If you can list the priorities nvidia should work on in this new year to move on with the latest and greatest then it may happens! Let's just have ther faith! Remember that nvidia DO listen, they just cannot reply to everyone but I strongly believe our efforts demonstrate our passion to keep 3D Vision alive and that they can feel this and help us along the route. [size="S"](Yeah, even if the Nvidia CES 2018 press event says nothing at all about 3D, sad)[/size] [size="S"][color="gray"]Pass the torch, DONE![/color][/size]
Greetings everyone,

Remember this post? That's the answer I got from CEO Jensen Huang on January 28th in 2016. My reply to this was:

Thank you for the quick reply.

Please be advised that the sooner the better for an annoucement about this. We are many fans of 3D who are waiting for a clear statement from nvidia for their support of 3D Vision.

Nothing happened. Then on June 14th of 2017 I wrote to him again, also quoting all my previous emails.

My message was:

It's been 15 months and we are many fans of 3D still waiting for Nvidia to do something. Patience is a virtue but at one point something needs to happen. You would be kind to have a look yourself at this post and the one above, where some of your employees said things which never happened, we are still waiting and dreaming. Please don't let us wait any longer, we fans of 3D Vision are a long due for a driver update to fix problems reported a while ago.

Well, I'm glad to say that the CEO read much if not all the email he gets and this time he asked someone to get in touch with me. That was on June 19th and that person wrote:

Hello Daniel,

I am part of the group that manages 3D Vision at NVIDIA.

Jensen asked me to contact you to start a conversation to better understand the concerns voiced in your email to him.

There’s a lot listed on the forum, but can you help me with your top 3 priorities?

Then I can speak to my superiors, and engineering, about seeing what we can do to get these issues prioritized if at all possible – and then communicate that to the forums.

I look forward to hearing from you, thanks in advance.

I quickly wanted to port the conversation here on this forum because I'm not the expert here so I kind of asked him to get over here and his answer was:

I’d rather keep this between us for the moment, rather than going to the forums, please.

[...skip...]

Understand, that the market for 3d is not nearly what it once was – 3dtvs are disappearing, and the ecoysystem supporting them, etc. While I am a huge fan of 3D, the existing fanbase is perceived as relatively small by the market overall and that’s why you seen development of new product deemphasized by the market overall, not just NVDIA.

That said, there is still considerable effort being put into maintaining the current 3dv product – in terms of frequent driver updates, game profiles, new OS support, etc., etc.

[...skip...]

I will eventually open this up to the forum, as well, along with a thread on recent 3dv work that many may not be aware of.

Fine I say, and I replied to a few of his questions. Then I wait...

Wait...

I ping him back on August 3rd and got a reply saying he was out of office for a bit and that I need to be patient.

So I wait...

Wait more...

On November 28th I send him this:

Checking in! There am I 4 months later... pretty patient, right?

The next day he replied:

Yes you are, thank you. Hello, I hope you are well.

There really is no news to push out to the forums in terms of new developments for 3D Vision. I can put together a statement about the general things we’re doing to support the tech in terms of OS and drivers and such, with a request for reasonable asks from the forum for 2018 – do you think that would help?

« no news to push out to the forums in terms of new developments for 3D Vision. » well that says much...

Then I wrote about the CPU bottleneck thread and asked if he knew soneone called Ray, he wanted his last name. Since I didn't know, I pointed him to a post from RAGEdemon.

I still haven't received a reply from him. And I haven't wrote back to him again for an update because, well... how to explain. My native language is french, I don't have all the english vocabulary to express myself like I would in french. I did my best to be patient but this is going nowhere and from what I could tell and you could also probably guess is that they seems to work just the minimum to keep it alive but that's it. I was curious to hear more about « That said, there is still considerable effort being put into maintaining the current 3dv product – in terms of frequent driver updates, game profiles, new OS support, etc., etc. »

There we are, I decided that time has come to share what looked promising 7 months ago. My plan now is only to point him to this thread and if he shows up then have someone to take the lead of this. I understand it may be easier for him to deal with only one person than a community in which some may show frustration.

My suggestion for our best chance to have him here would be to reply to what he asked in his first reply:

There’s a lot listed on the forum, but can you help me with your top 3 priorities?

So I ask the experts here, you know all of you awesome shaderfixers and devs (3Dmigoto author Chiri and others). I fear to forget names if I start a list so I prefer to skip. If you can list the priorities nvidia should work on in this new year to move on with the latest and greatest then it may happens! Let's just have ther faith!

Remember that nvidia DO listen, they just cannot reply to everyone but I strongly believe our efforts demonstrate our passion to keep 3D Vision alive and that they can feel this and help us along the route. (Yeah, even if the Nvidia CES 2018 press event says nothing at all about 3D, sad)

Pass the torch, DONE!

3D Vision must live! NVIDIA, don't let us down!

#1
Posted 01/09/2018 03:14 AM   
For me? 1. Got to get this business with Windows 10's latest update and >120Hz monitors working again. 2. Shadowplay needs to play nice with 3D Vision. If I'm playing in 2D but 3D Vision is enabled (or just has been enabled sometime since booting up), it records on one half of the screen while the other is left black. I'll leave it at that.
For me?

1. Got to get this business with Windows 10's latest update and >120Hz monitors working again.

2. Shadowplay needs to play nice with 3D Vision. If I'm playing in 2D but 3D Vision is enabled (or just has been enabled sometime since booting up), it records on one half of the screen while the other is left black.

I'll leave it at that.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.

-- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"

#2
Posted 01/09/2018 03:30 AM   
1. CPU bottleneck fix (top priority) 2. 3D vision support for future games 3. 3D SURROUND support for future game please
1. CPU bottleneck fix (top priority)
2. 3D vision support for future games
3. 3D SURROUND support for future game please

8700K 5.0Ghz OC (Silicon Lottery Edition)
Noctua NH-15 cooler
Asus Maximus X Hero
16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM DDR4 3000
1TB Samsung PM961 OEM M.2 NVMe
MSI Gaming X Trio 1080Ti SLI
Corsair 1000RMi PSU
Cougar Conquer Case
Triple Screens Acer Predator 3D Vision XB272
3D Vision 2 Glasses
Win 10 Pro x64

#3
Posted 01/09/2018 04:10 AM   
For 2018 I just want this to be 3D vision ready!! https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1033803/3d-vision/new-hope-nvidia-is-creating-65-inch-4k-hdr-gaming-displays-with-120hz-g-sync/

#4
Posted 01/09/2018 05:44 AM   
Thank you Rhialto, I admire your persistence! If you struggle with English, please do type in French and then use google translate, which uses advanced machine learning algorithms to make impressive translations into other languages! I personally think your English and insight are great! He is quite right in saying that the old 3D market is dying. However, nVidia can take advantage of and help the emergence of new markets, and alleviate headaches for the current user base with comparatively little effort vs gain... This is my humble take: [b]1.[/b] Please fix the CPU bottleneck. We have hit a 5GHz * IPC CPU performance wall as of the last 10 years - CPU performance will not improve but game consoles are catching up fast, games from which are ported to the PC. With the 3D Vision bottleneck, a lot of games are unplayable in 3D Vision, not because of the GPU requirements, but simply because a CPU powerful enough to brute force the bottleneck (as was the case in old days) simply does not exist, nor will exist for the foreseeable decade into the future until perhaps we move away from silicon. [b]2.[/b] [b]a.[/b] Open up 3D vision to all display devices, not just the licensed "3D vision Ready" ones. This would allow a huge influx of users who were previously locked out to experience 3D Vision, and would be a deep refreshing breath for a dying patient. [b]b.[/b] Allow all modes of 3D vision so the entire catalogue of 3D devices can be supported - this used to be a feature of the 3D Vision driver before: [img]http://nvidia.custhelp.com/euf/assets/images/nvidia/aid_3012_1.jpg[/img] This would include support for new generation of 4K HDR displays/projectors using whatever 3D technology they are compatible with - SBS, interlaced, Checkerboard, Over Under, et al. It is understood that the intention was originally to: i. Lock in users to nVidia products ii. Monetise the technology by requiring hardware manufacturers to licence the technology. iii. Ensure the average user did not mess things up - to make it as "plug and play" as possible. None of this matters now that the patient is almost dead. Users, especially power users should be given more credit and allowed complete control over their setups... [b]c.[/b] Please remove artificial restrictions such as : -- Not allowing 3Dtvplay/3D Vision certified hardware over a certain resolution/refresh rate. Restrictions do nothing but hinder the community and accelerate the death of 3D Vision. -- Red message when 3DV is activated, warning the user that the resolution/refresh rate is not supported by 3D vision;- it works just fine guys! At least allow the user to disable the message - most of us know what we are doing. -- 100% depth (separation) setting is not enough for the majority of more experienced users, especially in Compatibility Mode where is hard-locked and cannot be modified via registry edits. Everyone's eye spacing is different from one person to the next, even for the same person as he/she grows up. Even VR, where separation is most critical, allows users to physically separate screens to their preferred settings, well beyond the average eye separation; why restrict it to the lowest common denominator in 3DV? Please allow unconstrained control of separation in both traditional and Compatibility Mode 3D Vision to well beyond the arbitrary "100%". CM mode max separation is mostly always wrong. With people who have displays such as projectors which intrinsically have variable screen sizes, limiting separation to an arbitrary value is madness. Granted some beginners might use the wrong settings, but again, lets not cut off our nose because some people might have an itch on it. At the least, it can be an advanced option where beyond 100% depth is locked unless one agrees to some disclaimer, similar to nVidia custom resolutions settings. [b]3.[/b] [b]a. [/b] Allow 3D Vision to work with VR devices - yes there will be no head tracking or motion controls, but the VR HMD display will be far superior to most current user's monitors. It would open up the entire 3D Vision catalogue to VR. It can be done easily - a lone developer has done a decent job alone, with limited resources, making VorpX. [b]b. [/b] Give an option to allow standard SLi in VR (not talking about VR SLi). Basically, HTC Vive and Oculus Rift lock out SLi support. A significant portion of 3D Vision users rely on SLi because 3D Vision required double the GPU power, as does supersampling VR Game resolutions. Oculus and HTC say that SLi sometimes adds head tracking lag - but NO, it entirely depends on the type of game - The old beta VR software from Oculus allowed SLi, which proved SLi lag to be: i. mostly un-noticeable in the majority of games, ii. it is not important if 3D Vision comes to VR as there is no head tracking, iii. Supersampled VR is a far superior experience compared to mostly un-noticeable "reduced" lag. Frankly, locking out SLi from VR was akin to cutting off one's nose because it had an itch on the tip. Oculus/HTC/Valve will not listen because they pander to the lowest common denominator who want things to be plug and play. Perhaps you might allow us the option for the user to decide for him/herself, which bypasses Steam/Oculus/Vive restrictions. [b]4.[/b] It would be great to look into allowing a form of Single Pass Stereo as the default processing method for 3D Vision: [url]https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/singlepassstereo[/url] This will ensure optimal frame rates for 3D vision users without requiring double GPU power, and ought to greatly increase adoption potential. [b]5.[/b] Allow shader fixers documented driver level access to hardware for easier shader fixes and reduced problems with frame-rate impacting synchronisation. People have tried to make their own 3D Vision type software to add and extend functionality and to add to the community, but have always ran up against a brick wall where if the FPS drops below refresh, the eyes would de-synchronise and flip over. There is no need to lock out other people with the "proprietery technology" excuse, when all it does is stifle innovation. Would you rather have a dead technology where no-one makes money, or a live and flourishing, open eco-system in which everyone is using nVidia cards? The community is willing to work for you for free, but you have to be reasonably open and allow them to spread their wings! [b]6.[/b] Scrap the "3D Vision Profile" initiative - it is utterly useless and brings no benefit to the 3D Vision community. It takes up valuable resources to sustain, which could be used elsewhere. The 3D Vision "team" ought to spend time on the above rather than "profiles" which no one makes use of. I shake my head in disbelief when I imagine all the time wasted making useless profiles which no-one uses, when that time could have been spent on developing even one of the above mentioned items. Let's be absolutely clear: The ONLY reason 3D Vision still has a pulse is the helixmod blog, which hosts game fixes developed by shader fixers on this forum: [url]https://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/game-list-automatically-updated.html[/url] Being pragmatic, why not give the money wasted over the decade on "profiles" to shader fixers in some kind of incentivised program / or employ them freelance or outright? Maybe send out free hardware to them often. It is this kind of outreach which builds communities, brand awareness, and browning points. nVidia makes billions in yearly profits. A proper investment within its communities would at worst not cause a dent in profits, but most likely repay exceptional dividends. These are but a few ideas, I am sure DarkStarSword, bo3b, Helifax, et al shall have a lot more things that can be easily accomplished. The bottom line is that artificial restrictions which were once put into place to ensure brand loyalty, brand adoption, and monetise 3DV when 3D was a booming industry, are now a noose with a stranglehold around a dying patient's neck. Most of the items listed above do not take any effort from nVidia to get going, and are very reasonable requests. Please nVidia, we implore you to remove these artificial restrictions and together with the community's shader fixers, let 3D Vision fly free, allowing it to soar in which ever direction and whatever method of flight it might choose for itself!
Thank you Rhialto, I admire your persistence! If you struggle with English, please do type in French and then use google translate, which uses advanced machine learning algorithms to make impressive translations into other languages! I personally think your English and insight are great!

He is quite right in saying that the old 3D market is dying.

However, nVidia can take advantage of and help the emergence of new markets, and alleviate headaches for the current user base with comparatively little effort vs gain...

This is my humble take:

1.
Please fix the CPU bottleneck. We have hit a 5GHz * IPC CPU performance wall as of the last 10 years - CPU performance will not improve but game consoles are catching up fast, games from which are ported to the PC. With the 3D Vision bottleneck, a lot of games are unplayable in 3D Vision, not because of the GPU requirements, but simply because a CPU powerful enough to brute force the bottleneck (as was the case in old days) simply does not exist, nor will exist for the foreseeable decade into the future until perhaps we move away from silicon.


2.
a.
Open up 3D vision to all display devices, not just the licensed "3D vision Ready" ones. This would allow a huge influx of users who were previously locked out to experience 3D Vision, and would be a deep refreshing breath for a dying patient.

b.
Allow all modes of 3D vision so the entire catalogue of 3D devices can be supported - this used to be a feature of the 3D Vision driver before:

Image

This would include support for new generation of 4K HDR displays/projectors using whatever 3D technology they are compatible with - SBS, interlaced, Checkerboard, Over Under, et al.

It is understood that the intention was originally to:

i. Lock in users to nVidia products
ii. Monetise the technology by requiring hardware manufacturers to licence the technology.
iii. Ensure the average user did not mess things up - to make it as "plug and play" as possible.

None of this matters now that the patient is almost dead. Users, especially power users should be given more credit and allowed complete control over their setups...

c.
Please remove artificial restrictions such as :

-- Not allowing 3Dtvplay/3D Vision certified hardware over a certain resolution/refresh rate. Restrictions do nothing but hinder the community and accelerate the death of 3D Vision.

-- Red message when 3DV is activated, warning the user that the resolution/refresh rate is not supported by 3D vision;- it works just fine guys! At least allow the user to disable the message - most of us know what we are doing.

-- 100% depth (separation) setting is not enough for the majority of more experienced users, especially in Compatibility Mode where is hard-locked and cannot be modified via registry edits. Everyone's eye spacing is different from one person to the next, even for the same person as he/she grows up.

Even VR, where separation is most critical, allows users to physically separate screens to their preferred settings, well beyond the average eye separation; why restrict it to the lowest common denominator in 3DV? Please allow unconstrained control of separation in both traditional and Compatibility Mode 3D Vision to well beyond the arbitrary "100%".

CM mode max separation is mostly always wrong. With people who have displays such as projectors which intrinsically have variable screen sizes, limiting separation to an arbitrary value is madness. Granted some beginners might use the wrong settings, but again, lets not cut off our nose because some people might have an itch on it. At the least, it can be an advanced option where beyond 100% depth is locked unless one agrees to some disclaimer, similar to nVidia custom resolutions settings.


3.
a.
Allow 3D Vision to work with VR devices - yes there will be no head tracking or motion controls, but the VR HMD display will be far superior to most current user's monitors. It would open up the entire 3D Vision catalogue to VR. It can be done easily - a lone developer has done a decent job alone, with limited resources, making VorpX.

b.
Give an option to allow standard SLi in VR (not talking about VR SLi). Basically, HTC Vive and Oculus Rift lock out SLi support. A significant portion of 3D Vision users rely on SLi because 3D Vision required double the GPU power, as does supersampling VR Game resolutions. Oculus and HTC say that SLi sometimes adds head tracking lag - but NO, it entirely depends on the type of game - The old beta VR software from Oculus allowed SLi, which proved SLi lag to be:

i. mostly un-noticeable in the majority of games,
ii. it is not important if 3D Vision comes to VR as there is no head tracking,
iii. Supersampled VR is a far superior experience compared to mostly un-noticeable "reduced" lag.

Frankly, locking out SLi from VR was akin to cutting off one's nose because it had an itch on the tip. Oculus/HTC/Valve will not listen because they pander to the lowest common denominator who want things to be plug and play. Perhaps you might allow us the option for the user to decide for him/herself, which bypasses Steam/Oculus/Vive restrictions.


4.
It would be great to look into allowing a form of Single Pass Stereo as the default processing method for 3D Vision:

https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/singlepassstereo

This will ensure optimal frame rates for 3D vision users without requiring double GPU power, and ought to greatly increase adoption potential.

5.
Allow shader fixers documented driver level access to hardware for easier shader fixes and reduced problems with frame-rate impacting synchronisation. People have tried to make their own 3D Vision type software to add and extend functionality and to add to the community, but have always ran up against a brick wall where if the FPS drops below refresh, the eyes would de-synchronise and flip over.

There is no need to lock out other people with the "proprietery technology" excuse, when all it does is stifle innovation. Would you rather have a dead technology where no-one makes money, or a live and flourishing, open eco-system in which everyone is using nVidia cards? The community is willing to work for you for free, but you have to be reasonably open and allow them to spread their wings!


6.
Scrap the "3D Vision Profile" initiative - it is utterly useless and brings no benefit to the 3D Vision community. It takes up valuable resources to sustain, which could be used elsewhere.

The 3D Vision "team" ought to spend time on the above rather than "profiles" which no one makes use of.

I shake my head in disbelief when I imagine all the time wasted making useless profiles which no-one uses, when that time could have been spent on developing even one of the above mentioned items.

Let's be absolutely clear: The ONLY reason 3D Vision still has a pulse is the helixmod blog, which hosts game fixes developed by shader fixers on this forum:

https://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/game-list-automatically-updated.html

Being pragmatic, why not give the money wasted over the decade on "profiles" to shader fixers in some kind of incentivised program / or employ them freelance or outright? Maybe send out free hardware to them often. It is this kind of outreach which builds communities, brand awareness, and browning points. nVidia makes billions in yearly profits. A proper investment within its communities would at worst not cause a dent in profits, but most likely repay exceptional dividends.


These are but a few ideas, I am sure DarkStarSword, bo3b, Helifax, et al shall have a lot more things that can be easily accomplished.

The bottom line is that artificial restrictions which were once put into place to ensure brand loyalty, brand adoption, and monetise 3DV when 3D was a booming industry, are now a noose with a stranglehold around a dying patient's neck. Most of the items listed above do not take any effort from nVidia to get going, and are very reasonable requests.

Please nVidia, we implore you to remove these artificial restrictions and together with the community's shader fixers, let 3D Vision fly free, allowing it to soar in which ever direction and whatever method of flight it might choose for itself!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#5
Posted 01/09/2018 10:29 AM   
1) Improve performance (solve the cpu bottleneck) 2) Unlock hardware compatibility : give users a way to manually override the output type and choose whatever format they want (my wish is to have Full-resolution Side-By-Side output : 3840x1080) 3) Add an optional one-eye aiming mode (keep one eye lined up with the original 2D camera position to make aiming work in games that require it). 4) Change the UI. Show the controls to the user instead of trying to hide them, take some inspiration from what Tridef does, maybe add 3D Vision controls to the Geforce Experience Overlay ?
1) Improve performance (solve the cpu bottleneck)
2) Unlock hardware compatibility : give users a way to manually override the output type and choose whatever format they want (my wish is to have Full-resolution Side-By-Side output : 3840x1080)
3) Add an optional one-eye aiming mode (keep one eye lined up with the original 2D camera position to make aiming work in games that require it).
4) Change the UI. Show the controls to the user instead of trying to hide them, take some inspiration from what Tridef does, maybe add 3D Vision controls to the Geforce Experience Overlay ?

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#6
Posted 01/09/2018 11:07 AM   
What I would want is one of these in 3D Vision! https://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvidias-impressive-new-bfgd-combines-the-best-of-g/1100-6455953/ A BFGD 3D Vision Ready Certified!
What I would want is one of these in 3D Vision!

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvidias-impressive-new-bfgd-combines-the-best-of-g/1100-6455953/


A BFGD 3D Vision Ready Certified!

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#7
Posted 01/09/2018 12:57 PM   
RAGEdemon offers a great list, especially items 2 and 3. Even though VR is currently in a bit of a lull (few new high profile games are planned for release in 2018, on either Rift or PSVR), HMDs are still likely to be a high-growth area. AR displays (like Magic Leap's Leap One) are poised to make HMDs more useful and practical in 2018. NVIDIA should embrace all of these new display technologies, enabling its unique community-based, constantly evolving, world-class gaming library (helixmod.blogspot) - tied to NVIDIA technology - to be shared with new users and communities. Great suggestion, Helifax, combined with a new generation 3D Vision kit.
RAGEdemon offers a great list, especially items 2 and 3. Even though VR is currently in a bit of a lull (few new high profile games are planned for release in 2018, on either Rift or PSVR), HMDs are still likely to be a high-growth area. AR displays (like Magic Leap's Leap One) are poised to make HMDs more useful and practical in 2018.

NVIDIA should embrace all of these new display technologies, enabling its unique community-based, constantly evolving, world-class gaming library (helixmod.blogspot) - tied to NVIDIA technology - to be shared with new users and communities.

Great suggestion, Helifax, combined with a new generation 3D Vision kit.

#8
Posted 01/09/2018 02:04 PM   
I'll add another +1 to RAGEdemon's list, particularly echoing all points of #2 as they seem most viable and overall beneficial.
I'll add another +1 to RAGEdemon's list, particularly echoing all points of #2 as they seem most viable and overall beneficial.

3D Gaming Rig: CPU: i7 7700K @ 4.9Ghz | Mobo: Asus Maximus Hero VIII | RAM: Corsair Dominator 16GB | GPU: 2 x GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 3xSSDs for OS and Apps, 2 x HDD's for 11GB storage | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 M2| Case: Corsair C70 | Cooling: Corsair H115i Hydro cooler | Displays: Asus PG278QR, BenQ XL2420TX & BenQ HT1075 | OS: Windows 10 Pro + Windows 7 dual boot

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#9
Posted 01/10/2018 01:12 AM   
Its also about time they allowed 3d vision in linux on gtx cards. Utterly mad to block it.
Its also about time they allowed 3d vision in linux on gtx cards. Utterly mad to block it.

#10
Posted 01/10/2018 10:19 AM   
RAGEdemon summarized very well, so another +1 from me too.
RAGEdemon summarized very well, so another +1 from me too.

Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z

#11
Posted 01/10/2018 11:32 AM   
I think i'd first support anything that makes the life of a 3D Vision fixer easier. The amount of time some of these guys mentioned they've put in to fixing a single game something is shocking and its only them that makes 3D Vision viable anymore. I'd also like it if Nvidia's new 65" had 3D support, IMO a big FOV is key to making a 3D picture look life-like and this would be a mostly perfect opportunity to get 3D moving fast again. Im mean a massive 3D Vision display, in the homes of many users, requiring only the purchase of a 3D Vision kit to start playing all games in 3D instead of ordering and replacing their often perfectly functioning monitors, having to sell that off, etc. The only thing that makes this display "mostly" perfect and not totally perfect is the rendering requirements. But there is a possible solution to that: I would like to propose that Nvidia considers a checkerboard 3D mode like Samsung offered in their LCDs. Checkerboard 3D displays every other pixel and looks miraculously like full resolution, as if its displaying all the pixels. Even at 1080p, viewing a 46" 3DTV on the back end of my desk, i see very little of the minute blockyness you might expect to see after reading how checkerboard 3D works. However, this will ONLY be of benefit if Nvidia's graphics cards can in some way only render the necessary pixels used in the checkerboard mode, requiring only half the power. Currently Nvidia cards render full resolution in checkerboard mode. Since i don't know how Nvidia cards work i don't know if its as simple as a changing a couple variables when checkerboard 3D is enabled or if it's impossible. But having a 3D mode that looks basically like full resolution, while requiring half the processing power, would be very helpful to those without deep pockets. So if it is just changing a few variables, or doing some minor coding, then it would be an excellent option IMO.
I think i'd first support anything that makes the life of a 3D Vision fixer easier. The amount of time some of these guys mentioned they've put in to fixing a single game something is shocking and its only them that makes 3D Vision viable anymore.

I'd also like it if Nvidia's new 65" had 3D support, IMO a big FOV is key to making a 3D picture look life-like and this would be a mostly perfect opportunity to get 3D moving fast again. Im mean a massive 3D Vision display, in the homes of many users, requiring only the purchase of a 3D Vision kit to start playing all games in 3D instead of ordering and replacing their often perfectly functioning monitors, having to sell that off, etc. The only thing that makes this display "mostly" perfect and not totally perfect is the rendering requirements. But there is a possible solution to that:

I would like to propose that Nvidia considers a checkerboard 3D mode like Samsung offered in their LCDs. Checkerboard 3D displays every other pixel and looks miraculously like full resolution, as if its displaying all the pixels. Even at 1080p, viewing a 46" 3DTV on the back end of my desk, i see very little of the minute blockyness you might expect to see after reading how checkerboard 3D works. However, this will ONLY be of benefit if Nvidia's graphics cards can in some way only render the necessary pixels used in the checkerboard mode, requiring only half the power. Currently Nvidia cards render full resolution in checkerboard mode. Since i don't know how Nvidia cards work i don't know if its as simple as a changing a couple variables when checkerboard 3D is enabled or if it's impossible. But having a 3D mode that looks basically like full resolution, while requiring half the processing power, would be very helpful to those without deep pockets. So if it is just changing a few variables, or doing some minor coding, then it would be an excellent option IMO.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#12
Posted 01/10/2018 05:25 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Being pragmatic, why not give the money wasted over the decade on "profiles" to shader fixers in some kind of incentivised program / or employ them freelance or outright? Maybe send out free hardware to them often. It is this kind of outreach which builds communities, brand awareness, and browning points. [/quote] Dunno how many times I thought about something like that as something that should be so obvious. +1
RAGEdemon said:Being pragmatic, why not give the money wasted over the decade on "profiles" to shader fixers in some kind of incentivised program / or employ them freelance or outright? Maybe send out free hardware to them often. It is this kind of outreach which builds communities, brand awareness, and browning points.


Dunno how many times I thought about something like that as something that should be so obvious.

+1

#13
Posted 01/10/2018 05:25 PM   
[quote]I still haven't received a reply from him. And I haven't wrote back to him again for an update because, well... how to explain. My native language is french, I don't have all the english vocabulary to express myself like I would in french. I did my best to be patient but this is going nowhere and from what I could tell and you could also probably guess is that they seems to work just the minimum to keep it alive but that's it. I was curious to hear more about « That said, there is still considerable effort being put into maintaining the current 3dv product – in terms of frequent driver updates, game profiles, new OS support, etc., etc. »[/quote] Allow me to emphatically reemphasize this point. NVidia is still doing a LOT of work on the backend that is mostly invisible to us. No one ever sees the work that the backend coders are doing, like in 3Dmigoto. The only thing anyone notices is the customer facing parts. NVidia has kept the driver going through some fairly massive recent changes. The game devs went batshit with the compute shaders- and NVidia added profile and 3D Vision Automatic support to auto-stereoize even CS outputs. I know that means nothing to you, but this is HUGE. If they simply stopped looking at 3D Vision completely, they never would have done this work. Win10 came out and kneecapped everyone because Microsoft hates everyone who wants a stable OS. NVidia has been doing ongoing continuous driver work in the 3D Vision Driver to keep it working over all the retarded changes Microsoft forces down everyone's throats. Without this work, there would be no 3D Vision on Win10 at all. Profile changes are not common, but even there the work they are doing for game profiles has direct and immediate impacts on our ability to play. Without them figuring out what sick hacks they need to workaround the latest OS or game stupidity, they wouldn't have the driver level fixes that we need. And, we figure out the best profiles to use and apply them to games, which gets us 80% of the way there. Even though this stuff is invisible, they are not lying. They continue to invest serious engineering in keeping it working, and it's important for us to recognize this and not be ungrateful.
I still haven't received a reply from him. And I haven't wrote back to him again for an update because, well... how to explain. My native language is french, I don't have all the english vocabulary to express myself like I would in french. I did my best to be patient but this is going nowhere and from what I could tell and you could also probably guess is that they seems to work just the minimum to keep it alive but that's it. I was curious to hear more about « That said, there is still considerable effort being put into maintaining the current 3dv product – in terms of frequent driver updates, game profiles, new OS support, etc., etc. »


Allow me to emphatically reemphasize this point. NVidia is still doing a LOT of work on the backend that is mostly invisible to us. No one ever sees the work that the backend coders are doing, like in 3Dmigoto. The only thing anyone notices is the customer facing parts.

NVidia has kept the driver going through some fairly massive recent changes.

The game devs went batshit with the compute shaders- and NVidia added profile and 3D Vision Automatic support to auto-stereoize even CS outputs. I know that means nothing to you, but this is HUGE. If they simply stopped looking at 3D Vision completely, they never would have done this work.

Win10 came out and kneecapped everyone because Microsoft hates everyone who wants a stable OS. NVidia has been doing ongoing continuous driver work in the 3D Vision Driver to keep it working over all the retarded changes Microsoft forces down everyone's throats. Without this work, there would be no 3D Vision on Win10 at all.

Profile changes are not common, but even there the work they are doing for game profiles has direct and immediate impacts on our ability to play. Without them figuring out what sick hacks they need to workaround the latest OS or game stupidity, they wouldn't have the driver level fixes that we need. And, we figure out the best profiles to use and apply them to games, which gets us 80% of the way there.

Even though this stuff is invisible, they are not lying. They continue to invest serious engineering in keeping it working, and it's important for us to recognize this and not be ungrateful.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
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Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#14
Posted 01/10/2018 06:30 PM   
+1 to bo3b. They aren't actively fixing games collaborating with developers, but they have been fixing bugs and big issues. And sometimes the profiles they make add some settings that would make the game seemingly impossible to fix. What 3D Vision needs is adapting 3DTV Play to new HDMI standards and making more hardware and software improvements (more types of monitors compatible, more refresh rate options, etc). It feels kinda abandoned on that end. But bo3b will save our asses (in the hardware department) by making things compatible with VR, right? :)
+1 to bo3b.

They aren't actively fixing games collaborating with developers, but they have been fixing bugs and big issues. And sometimes the profiles they make add some settings that would make the game seemingly impossible to fix.

What 3D Vision needs is adapting 3DTV Play to new HDMI standards and making more hardware and software improvements (more types of monitors compatible, more refresh rate options, etc). It feels kinda abandoned on that end.

But bo3b will save our asses (in the hardware department) by making things compatible with VR, right? :)

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
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#15
Posted 01/10/2018 07:43 PM   
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