Passive 3D Displays vs. Active 3D Displays Will these make a difference with how 3D Vision will work
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[quote name='Flugan' date='28 March 2012 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1332926439' post='1388935']
A passive setup with dual projectors and silver screen could probably be massive.

I wonder how hard it is to calibrate to align the 1080p pixels even though due to 3D it probably doesn't have to be perfectly aligned.

I could not consider it replacing a PC Monitor so I would probably compare it to using a 3DTV but with bigger size and the need for dark viewing room.
[/quote]
I've got a 106" diagonal projection screen, limited by the size on my former apartment. In my current living room, I could reach a full floor to ceiling picture, I didn't measure it but I believe that's about 200" diagonal... if I bought a new screen.

Using it for everything is indeed not a good idea. Browsing the web and working is better done sitting at a desk, the ergonomics are just not the same. There's also the screen gain, the grain, and high directivity of silverscreens that create hot-spotting. You can accept a compromise like that if it's the only way to do good passive display and to get more light in 3D when watching movies, but not when browsing the web and working.
I'm eager to test the Omega Optical interference filters (which should be arriving home soon) to see if I can get rid of the silverscreen and get a proper modern high quality screen.

Lining up the two projectors can be easy or very hard depending on how precise you want to be and on whether or not your projectors have a good lens-shift.
You can get a very comfortable result within a few minutes, but to get pixel perfection can require hours and a second person who stays right in front of the screen to monitor progress.
[quote name='Flugan' date='28 March 2012 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1332926439' post='1388935']

A passive setup with dual projectors and silver screen could probably be massive.



I wonder how hard it is to calibrate to align the 1080p pixels even though due to 3D it probably doesn't have to be perfectly aligned.



I could not consider it replacing a PC Monitor so I would probably compare it to using a 3DTV but with bigger size and the need for dark viewing room.



I've got a 106" diagonal projection screen, limited by the size on my former apartment. In my current living room, I could reach a full floor to ceiling picture, I didn't measure it but I believe that's about 200" diagonal... if I bought a new screen.



Using it for everything is indeed not a good idea. Browsing the web and working is better done sitting at a desk, the ergonomics are just not the same. There's also the screen gain, the grain, and high directivity of silverscreens that create hot-spotting. You can accept a compromise like that if it's the only way to do good passive display and to get more light in 3D when watching movies, but not when browsing the web and working.

I'm eager to test the Omega Optical interference filters (which should be arriving home soon) to see if I can get rid of the silverscreen and get a proper modern high quality screen.



Lining up the two projectors can be easy or very hard depending on how precise you want to be and on whether or not your projectors have a good lens-shift.

You can get a very comfortable result within a few minutes, but to get pixel perfection can require hours and a second person who stays right in front of the screen to monitor progress.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#46
Posted 03/28/2012 10:15 PM   
Out of curiousity, how much did the filters cost?

Where will you be posting your results here on this forumn, AVS Science or MTBS?
Out of curiousity, how much did the filters cost?



Where will you be posting your results here on this forumn, AVS Science or MTBS?

#47
Posted 03/29/2012 12:14 AM   
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='28 March 2012 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1332970742' post='1389240']
It looks like we are using the term "flicker" for different phenomenon.
From what you write, I understand you use it to describe the glasses freezing when there is a loss of signal between the display and the glasses. It lasts a fraction of a second and then the glasses resume operating normally again.

We use it to describe the strobing effect that occurs all the time when using a sequential based 3D display, even at 120Hz. It doesn't affect everybody the same way. Some people don't see it at all, most people feel it as a slight eyestrain but bear with it easily, rarely some people are so disturbed by it that they can't watch the picture at all.
I haven't tested Samsung's 2011 displays but I have felt it on every single sequential display I have ever seen :
active shutter 3DTVs and desktop monitors @120Hz as well as both XPAND active shutter and RealD cinema @ 144Hz. I can bear with it for a 2Hrs movie but after that my eyes feel very tired which does not happen on passive displays (with simultaneous presentation in both eyes).
[/quote]

I meant flickering like when the glasses lens loose sync with the monitor/TV and the lens starts to blink really fast or they just lose sync for a micro second and then comes back to normal, this is very annoying. That's my understanding for the definition of flickering. I have a 2010 C7000 Samsung 3D Plasma TV that uses IR glasses and sometimes while watching a movie or playing a 3D games, during some heavy action scenes, the glasses lose sync and then comes back normal, which is a very annoying effect.
Using the bluetooth glasses that came with my new S27A950D monitor I don't have to deal with these issues, cause bluetooth 3D glasses really have a rock solid link.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='28 March 2012 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1332970742' post='1389240']

It looks like we are using the term "flicker" for different phenomenon.

From what you write, I understand you use it to describe the glasses freezing when there is a loss of signal between the display and the glasses. It lasts a fraction of a second and then the glasses resume operating normally again.



We use it to describe the strobing effect that occurs all the time when using a sequential based 3D display, even at 120Hz. It doesn't affect everybody the same way. Some people don't see it at all, most people feel it as a slight eyestrain but bear with it easily, rarely some people are so disturbed by it that they can't watch the picture at all.

I haven't tested Samsung's 2011 displays but I have felt it on every single sequential display I have ever seen :

active shutter 3DTVs and desktop monitors @120Hz as well as both XPAND active shutter and RealD cinema @ 144Hz. I can bear with it for a 2Hrs movie but after that my eyes feel very tired which does not happen on passive displays (with simultaneous presentation in both eyes).





I meant flickering like when the glasses lens loose sync with the monitor/TV and the lens starts to blink really fast or they just lose sync for a micro second and then comes back to normal, this is very annoying. That's my understanding for the definition of flickering. I have a 2010 C7000 Samsung 3D Plasma TV that uses IR glasses and sometimes while watching a movie or playing a 3D games, during some heavy action scenes, the glasses lose sync and then comes back normal, which is a very annoying effect.

Using the bluetooth glasses that came with my new S27A950D monitor I don't have to deal with these issues, cause bluetooth 3D glasses really have a rock solid link.

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#48
Posted 03/29/2012 01:45 AM   
I'm planning to invest heavily in 3D setup and along with buying Sony HMZ-T1, would like to replace my old monitor with 120Hz 3D Ready. Ive read Asus VG278H was the best choice, but there were some problems with it. Is it worth buying or there is/soon be a better choice? Maybe passive 3D monitors?
I'm planning to invest heavily in 3D setup and along with buying Sony HMZ-T1, would like to replace my old monitor with 120Hz 3D Ready. Ive read Asus VG278H was the best choice, but there were some problems with it. Is it worth buying or there is/soon be a better choice? Maybe passive 3D monitors?

i5 2500K/16gb/GTX 970/Asus VG278H + Sony HMZ-T1

#49
Posted 03/29/2012 08:53 AM   
I see that LG is releasing some OLED Passive 3DTVs in the next few months and you can be sure that they will not be cheap. Anyhow I read in an article that LG claims a response rate as low as 0.1 microseconds.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Samsung-LG-Unveil-55-inch-OLED-TV-Models-at-CES-2012---Here-s-Why-We-re-Excited.shtml
I see that LG is releasing some OLED Passive 3DTVs in the next few months and you can be sure that they will not be cheap. Anyhow I read in an article that LG claims a response rate as low as 0.1 microseconds.



http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Samsung-LG-Unveil-55-inch-OLED-TV-Models-at-CES-2012---Here-s-Why-We-re-Excited.shtml

#50
Posted 03/29/2012 09:54 PM   
[quote name='D-Man11' date='29 March 2012 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1333058088' post='1389695']
I see that LG is releasing some OLED Passive 3DTVs in the next few months and you can be sure that they will not be cheap. Anyhow I read in an article that LG claims a response rate as low as 0.1 microseconds.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Samsung-LG-Unveil-55-inch-OLED-TV-Models-at-CES-2012---Here-s-Why-We-re-Excited.shtml
[/quote]

Since there is no backlight I believe with OLED you could put lighted pixels up more concentrated on individual FPR lines and possibly reduce them by chance?! I would think the LED in a passive display would produce more diffuse light that might illuminate the FPR lines more. Just my 2 cents.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='29 March 2012 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1333058088' post='1389695']

I see that LG is releasing some OLED Passive 3DTVs in the next few months and you can be sure that they will not be cheap. Anyhow I read in an article that LG claims a response rate as low as 0.1 microseconds.



http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Samsung-LG-Unveil-55-inch-OLED-TV-Models-at-CES-2012---Here-s-Why-We-re-Excited.shtml





Since there is no backlight I believe with OLED you could put lighted pixels up more concentrated on individual FPR lines and possibly reduce them by chance?! I would think the LED in a passive display would produce more diffuse light that might illuminate the FPR lines more. Just my 2 cents.

#51
Posted 03/29/2012 11:47 PM   
[quote name='mindw0rk' date='29 March 2012 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1333011219' post='1389432']
I'm planning to invest heavily in 3D setup and along with buying Sony HMZ-T1, would like to replace my old monitor with 120Hz 3D Ready. Ive read Asus VG278H was the best choice, but there were some problems with it. Is it worth buying or there is/soon be a better choice? Maybe passive 3D monitors?
[/quote]

I've haven't heard of any more backlight complaints about the Asus VG278H since January that I can remember. They could be just running their backlights for few days before the factory puts them on the manufacturing line, maybe until they order from another company or do some design change...just thinking out loud. I like my Acer 27 inch passive. I think it's the best passive monitor out there, but it's FPR line faint visiblity vs maybe possible flicker. How they differ on ghosting, colors, brightness could be anybodys guess till we hear a direct comparison.

Acer 27 passive $499
Asus 27 active $699 with the price of an extra card if you want 60hz per eye & SLI. Or can you do it 60 hz per eye with one card?
[quote name='mindw0rk' date='29 March 2012 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1333011219' post='1389432']

I'm planning to invest heavily in 3D setup and along with buying Sony HMZ-T1, would like to replace my old monitor with 120Hz 3D Ready. Ive read Asus VG278H was the best choice, but there were some problems with it. Is it worth buying or there is/soon be a better choice? Maybe passive 3D monitors?





I've haven't heard of any more backlight complaints about the Asus VG278H since January that I can remember. They could be just running their backlights for few days before the factory puts them on the manufacturing line, maybe until they order from another company or do some design change...just thinking out loud. I like my Acer 27 inch passive. I think it's the best passive monitor out there, but it's FPR line faint visiblity vs maybe possible flicker. How they differ on ghosting, colors, brightness could be anybodys guess till we hear a direct comparison.



Acer 27 passive $499

Asus 27 active $699 with the price of an extra card if you want 60hz per eye & SLI. Or can you do it 60 hz per eye with one card?

#52
Posted 03/30/2012 12:17 AM   
[quote name='D-Man11' date='29 March 2012 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1332980099' post='1389301']
Out of curiousity, how much did the filters cost?

Where will you be posting your results here on this forumn, AVS Science or MTBS?
[/quote]
I bought the Omega kit containing the pair of filters and 5 pairs of glasses from their ebay reseller for 350$.
I received the package this morning. The package contains what it claims, the filters look like a technical lab product instead of a finished high-tech consumer product (bare metal frame around the filters with screwing holes, filters stick out a bit in front of the frame) and the glasses have a really..... dorky style, but they're comfortable to wear.

I'll first post my discoveries at the AVS Forums (3000$+ projectors / the ultimate 3D thread).
I'll then rewrite completely the "my dual-projectors" threads both at MTBS3D and AVS Forums.
[quote name='D-Man11' date='29 March 2012 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1332980099' post='1389301']

Out of curiousity, how much did the filters cost?



Where will you be posting your results here on this forumn, AVS Science or MTBS?



I bought the Omega kit containing the pair of filters and 5 pairs of glasses from their ebay reseller for 350$.

I received the package this morning. The package contains what it claims, the filters look like a technical lab product instead of a finished high-tech consumer product (bare metal frame around the filters with screwing holes, filters stick out a bit in front of the frame) and the glasses have a really..... dorky style, but they're comfortable to wear.



I'll first post my discoveries at the AVS Forums (3000$+ projectors / the ultimate 3D thread).

I'll then rewrite completely the "my dual-projectors" threads both at MTBS3D and AVS Forums.

Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter

#53
Posted 03/30/2012 02:11 PM   
It's now 2016. So which one is now better for 3D gaming? Active UHD TV or Passive UHD TV?
It's now 2016. So which one is now better for 3D gaming? Active UHD TV or Passive UHD TV?

#54
Posted 01/30/2016 09:22 PM   
[quote="ramps"]It's now 2016. So which one is now better for 3D gaming? Active UHD TV or Passive UHD TV?[/quote] An active UHD TV would need 120Hz for gaming (to get 60fps per eye), and those don't exist yet. Passive at 60Hz is your only option now. There is a thread around here about a 4k TV with forced passive 3D, but I don't remember if it works at full resolution. If I could use my 1080p monitor for 960x1080 or 1920x540 at 120Hz per eye in 3D, I would use that for some games that need less input lag (if the CPU can handle 120fps).
ramps said:It's now 2016. So which one is now better for 3D gaming? Active UHD TV or Passive UHD TV?


An active UHD TV would need 120Hz for gaming (to get 60fps per eye), and those don't exist yet. Passive at 60Hz is your only option now. There is a thread around here about a 4k TV with forced passive 3D, but I don't remember if it works at full resolution.

If I could use my 1080p monitor for 960x1080 or 1920x540 at 120Hz per eye in 3D, I would use that for some games that need less input lag (if the CPU can handle 120fps).

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#55
Posted 01/30/2016 10:19 PM   
So passive UHD TV can do 2160p 3D and active UHD TV only 1080p 3D? So which on looks better passive 2160p or active 1080p and gives better 3D effects?
So passive UHD TV can do 2160p 3D and active UHD TV only 1080p 3D? So which on looks better passive 2160p or active 1080p and gives better 3D effects?

#56
Posted 01/30/2016 10:40 PM   
Passive UHD should look better and therefore give "better 3D effect", but you will need approx twice as much GPU power to do that as 1080p Active. I don't think there is an UHD TV that can do active 1080p as they all operate at 60hz at present.
Passive UHD should look better and therefore give "better 3D effect", but you will need approx twice as much GPU power to do that as 1080p Active.

I don't think there is an UHD TV that can do active 1080p as they all operate at 60hz at present.

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#57
Posted 01/30/2016 10:50 PM   
[quote="NVicious"] I don't think there is an UHD TV that can do active 1080p as they all operate at 60hz at present.[/quote] 3D TV-s have so called fake 120/240hz
NVicious said:

I don't think there is an UHD TV that can do active 1080p as they all operate at 60hz at present.

3D TV-s have so called fake 120/240hz

#58
Posted 01/31/2016 04:06 PM   
[quote="ramps"][quote="NVicious"] I don't think there is an UHD TV that can do active 1080p as they all operate at 60hz at present.[/quote] 3D TV-s have so called fake 120/240hz[/quote] This is called interpolation and it is not fake. The input is 60HZ which is up scaled by the TV. The picture is 120HZ or 240HZ depending on the TV. Also there is a low end TV I think the brand is Sanyo that accepts a 120HZ signal.
ramps said:
NVicious said:

I don't think there is an UHD TV that can do active 1080p as they all operate at 60hz at present.

3D TV-s have so called fake 120/240hz


This is called interpolation and it is not fake. The input is 60HZ which is up scaled by the TV.
The picture is 120HZ or 240HZ depending on the TV.


Also there is a low end TV I think the brand is Sanyo that accepts a 120HZ signal.

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

#59
Posted 01/31/2016 04:44 PM   
PC guys call it fake 120/240hz because in reality you can't use over 60hz with PC and only some Sony UHD TV can do real 120hz @ 1080p. But these isn't answers what I want to heard. I need to know what technology is better now and gives you more 3D effects.
PC guys call it fake 120/240hz because in reality you can't use over 60hz with PC and only some Sony UHD TV can do real 120hz @ 1080p.
But these isn't answers what I want to heard. I need to know what technology is better now and gives you more 3D effects.

#60
Posted 01/31/2016 05:02 PM   
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