Frame rate impact these days, what's happened?
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I remember back in the day, the early days of stereo 3d gaming with nvidia hardware, switching between stereo and non-stereo would only affect framerate performance by a couple of percent (10-30% drop in framerate).

These days however the impact is almost always a lot worse. Yesterday I was having a go at SimBin's latest addition, GTR2, and I was trying to get a decent framerate at some of the more demanding tracks (Spa for example). I have a 6800GT card, and a P4 3Ghz CPU and 2 gigs of ram in my system, and no matter how much detail I turned off in the game I still kept dropping down to 15-20 fps at some sections of the spa track. The difference between maxed out settings and full antialising and the lowest possible setting with no antialising was not the much, perhaps 15 fps at eye-candy level and 20 fps when most options were off. And this was when racing solo, no other cars on the track and at daylight without any rain. At night, 20 other cars and rain it is not even possible to play, frame rate is that bad.

So, what I was getting at was that when I switched off stereo 3D I was getting about 60+ fps at the same track I was experiencing 15-20 fps with stereo turned on. That's like 3 times better performance.

It didn't use to be like this. What's happened? I remember games like rally trophy and rally masters, they had very little difference in fps wen playing in stereo or without stereo.

Could it be that some later additions to DX9 effects are not done in hardware when stereo 3d is turned on? That the stereo-driver has not really been updated in such a long time that most later hardware rendering effects on the graphics cards are not supported in stereo-mode?

Tonight I will try running in DX8 and DX7 rendering mode in GTR2 and see how that affects performence impact in stereo.

Regards,

Linus
I remember back in the day, the early days of stereo 3d gaming with nvidia hardware, switching between stereo and non-stereo would only affect framerate performance by a couple of percent (10-30% drop in framerate).



These days however the impact is almost always a lot worse. Yesterday I was having a go at SimBin's latest addition, GTR2, and I was trying to get a decent framerate at some of the more demanding tracks (Spa for example). I have a 6800GT card, and a P4 3Ghz CPU and 2 gigs of ram in my system, and no matter how much detail I turned off in the game I still kept dropping down to 15-20 fps at some sections of the spa track. The difference between maxed out settings and full antialising and the lowest possible setting with no antialising was not the much, perhaps 15 fps at eye-candy level and 20 fps when most options were off. And this was when racing solo, no other cars on the track and at daylight without any rain. At night, 20 other cars and rain it is not even possible to play, frame rate is that bad.



So, what I was getting at was that when I switched off stereo 3D I was getting about 60+ fps at the same track I was experiencing 15-20 fps with stereo turned on. That's like 3 times better performance.



It didn't use to be like this. What's happened? I remember games like rally trophy and rally masters, they had very little difference in fps wen playing in stereo or without stereo.



Could it be that some later additions to DX9 effects are not done in hardware when stereo 3d is turned on? That the stereo-driver has not really been updated in such a long time that most later hardware rendering effects on the graphics cards are not supported in stereo-mode?



Tonight I will try running in DX8 and DX7 rendering mode in GTR2 and see how that affects performence impact in stereo.



Regards,



Linus

#1
Posted 10/17/2006 07:34 AM   
hi linus

do you have the latest version of directx installed? should be august06 or maybe even october06. don´t know the direct link to microsoft page but this solved a lot of probs to me. stereo play to me is still only possible with one core deactivated :-(

greetz winnetou
hi linus



do you have the latest version of directx installed? should be august06 or maybe even october06. don´t know the direct link to microsoft page but this solved a lot of probs to me. stereo play to me is still only possible with one core deactivated :-(



greetz winnetou

#2
Posted 10/17/2006 11:04 AM   
I noticed this in Doom 3 I was playing the Doom II Mod For Doom 3 it was unplayable it was really choppy and Frames where probally down under 10 probally.

I have a decent rig Pr 3GHZ, 1.25GB ram, Geforce 7800GS CO, Audigy 2 ZS!!

I had it set on medium and 1024x768 for the graphics but in Stereo IT was Unplayable :(

I have the latest version of DirectX too!.

I Would like to see this Fixed and I am putting off getting a new Rig as the Dual Core issue with 3D :(

:angry:
I noticed this in Doom 3 I was playing the Doom II Mod For Doom 3 it was unplayable it was really choppy and Frames where probally down under 10 probally.



I have a decent rig Pr 3GHZ, 1.25GB ram, Geforce 7800GS CO, Audigy 2 ZS!!



I had it set on medium and 1024x768 for the graphics but in Stereo IT was Unplayable :(



I have the latest version of DirectX too!.



I Would like to see this Fixed and I am putting off getting a new Rig as the Dual Core issue with 3D :(



:angry:

Intel i5 7600K @ 4.8ghz / MSI Z270 SLI / Asus 1080GTX - 416.16 / Optoma HD142x Projector / 1 4'x10' Curved Screen PVC / TrackIR / HOTAS Cougar / Cougar MFD's / Track IR / NVidia 3D Vision / Win 10 64bit

#3
Posted 10/17/2006 02:12 PM   
Yes, I have the latest DirectX installed.

But this is not a new problem. I'm not sure when it all started, but it was probably a couple of years ago. But it feels like it's been a growing problem. For each new game that comes out and each new version of the nvidia driver, dirextx and so on, enabling stereo 3d affects performance more now than in early days.


Hmm, come to think of it, this might have taken a huge leap at the time when I changed from CRT-monitor and shutter glasses to LCD-projector and anaglyph glasses. I have to check later tonight when I get home if stereo-3d in anaglyph mode has worse performance hit than running in shutter-glasses mode.

I'll check and get back on it.
Yes, I have the latest DirectX installed.



But this is not a new problem. I'm not sure when it all started, but it was probably a couple of years ago. But it feels like it's been a growing problem. For each new game that comes out and each new version of the nvidia driver, dirextx and so on, enabling stereo 3d affects performance more now than in early days.





Hmm, come to think of it, this might have taken a huge leap at the time when I changed from CRT-monitor and shutter glasses to LCD-projector and anaglyph glasses. I have to check later tonight when I get home if stereo-3d in anaglyph mode has worse performance hit than running in shutter-glasses mode.



I'll check and get back on it.

#4
Posted 10/17/2006 03:26 PM   
Got some results now to show now

No difference in performance between anaglyph and shutter glasses.
I tried running GTR2 in different shader level modex (DirectX7, DirectX8 and DirectX9).

Here are the results in fps with different shader levels.

DX9 fps
------------------------------
Stereo On 15
Stereo Off 40

DX8 fps
------------------------------
Stereo On 18
Stereo Off 46

DX7 fps
------------------------------
Stereo On 25
Stereo Off 72

In all tests, there is a huge difference in fps when running in stereo.

I've tried running with full AA and no AA, different effects and detail level settings in the game, but they all result in huge difference.

The track I tried was Spa, and the noted FPS number are from a specific spot on the track where I had lower than average fps compared to other parts on the track. Also no other cars on the track when I did the fps test.

It is also sad to note that when running a night race against opponents, and/or with the rain effect turned on in wet races, the fps in stereo mode drops to 10 fps or even worse at some times which makes it unplayable in stereo mode. :(
Got some results now to show now



No difference in performance between anaglyph and shutter glasses.

I tried running GTR2 in different shader level modex (DirectX7, DirectX8 and DirectX9).



Here are the results in fps with different shader levels.



DX9 fps

------------------------------

Stereo On 15

Stereo Off 40



DX8 fps

------------------------------

Stereo On 18

Stereo Off 46



DX7 fps

------------------------------

Stereo On 25

Stereo Off 72



In all tests, there is a huge difference in fps when running in stereo.



I've tried running with full AA and no AA, different effects and detail level settings in the game, but they all result in huge difference.



The track I tried was Spa, and the noted FPS number are from a specific spot on the track where I had lower than average fps compared to other parts on the track. Also no other cars on the track when I did the fps test.



It is also sad to note that when running a night race against opponents, and/or with the rain effect turned on in wet races, the fps in stereo mode drops to 10 fps or even worse at some times which makes it unplayable in stereo mode. :(

#5
Posted 10/17/2006 04:56 PM   
I think I missed it - what are your driver versions?

Remind me what videocard you are using?

Thanks in advance,
Chopper /angel.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='O:)' />
I think I missed it - what are your driver versions?



Remind me what videocard you are using?



Thanks in advance,

Chopper /angel.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='O:)' />

#6
Posted 10/18/2006 12:15 AM   
I'm using Nvidia 6800 GT with the latest beta drivers 91.47.

Gonna run some more performance tests with old drivers, like the 78.01 and 71.89.
I'm using Nvidia 6800 GT with the latest beta drivers 91.47.



Gonna run some more performance tests with old drivers, like the 78.01 and 71.89.

#7
Posted 10/18/2006 06:10 AM   
What type of CPU are you using? Motherboard spec?

RAM?

Believe it or not, that impacts things too.

Regards,
Chopper
What type of CPU are you using? Motherboard spec?



RAM?



Believe it or not, that impacts things too.



Regards,

Chopper

#8
Posted 10/18/2006 03:33 PM   
Intel P4 3 Ghz
2 Gb RAM DDR2 PC4200 533 Mhz
Asus Motherboard with PCI-Express

But my real question was really if anyone else has experienced the change in how much stereo 3d slows down performance now as compared to, say 2-3 years ago and what the cause of this might be.

/Linus
Intel P4 3 Ghz

2 Gb RAM DDR2 PC4200 533 Mhz

Asus Motherboard with PCI-Express



But my real question was really if anyone else has experienced the change in how much stereo 3d slows down performance now as compared to, say 2-3 years ago and what the cause of this might be.



/Linus

#9
Posted 10/18/2006 03:52 PM   
Something is going on with the fps of the latest stereo drivers.
I play rfactor and just got a 7900GTO.
I was wondering why the fps in stereo appears at times lower than with my old 6800.

Now I have found that the fps are very good in stereo the first time I play after starting or re-booting the system.

Once I quit the game and start again, the stereo fps drops "dramatically" and the only way to get the fps back to normal is by reboting the system.

Same problem happens with GTR2 (Yes I am a Car racing freak)

Needless to say I have tried changing detail levels, FSAA levels, Aniso, optimizations, and so on and so on...

I only get the fps performance back by rebooting the system once more

In any case, the non-stereo performance is great. Therefore I cannot say it is another program starting in the background because it would affect the non-stereo fps too.

If someone gets an answer to this one, let me know, let me know...

...dissapointed...
Something is going on with the fps of the latest stereo drivers.

I play rfactor and just got a 7900GTO.

I was wondering why the fps in stereo appears at times lower than with my old 6800.



Now I have found that the fps are very good in stereo the first time I play after starting or re-booting the system.



Once I quit the game and start again, the stereo fps drops "dramatically" and the only way to get the fps back to normal is by reboting the system.



Same problem happens with GTR2 (Yes I am a Car racing freak)



Needless to say I have tried changing detail levels, FSAA levels, Aniso, optimizations, and so on and so on...



I only get the fps performance back by rebooting the system once more



In any case, the non-stereo performance is great. Therefore I cannot say it is another program starting in the background because it would affect the non-stereo fps too.



If someone gets an answer to this one, let me know, let me know...



...dissapointed...

#10
Posted 10/18/2006 11:33 PM   
Hi, Here are my Specs:

P4 3GHZ HT cpu
Via P4PB 400 mobo
1.25gb ram
eVGA Geforce 7800GSCO 256mb
Audigy 2 ZS


I would like to add that with my old Video Card a GeForce 5700 ultra & the 78.01 Drivers, I was able to Play Doom3 with Shadows and it was playable but Now with the new Drivers 91.31 it is unplayable w/Shadows enabled.

I also turned down a few other effects and reduced the overall rez and detail to medium to get Doom 3 too work.

I am just trying to point out there is a Definate need for A FIX as these Drivers are Flawed or something??

Altho I am Glad I can once again at least Play Most of my Games in 3D again, But it could be better ;)

THNX
Nephilim
Hi, Here are my Specs:



P4 3GHZ HT cpu

Via P4PB 400 mobo

1.25gb ram

eVGA Geforce 7800GSCO 256mb

Audigy 2 ZS





I would like to add that with my old Video Card a GeForce 5700 ultra & the 78.01 Drivers, I was able to Play Doom3 with Shadows and it was playable but Now with the new Drivers 91.31 it is unplayable w/Shadows enabled.



I also turned down a few other effects and reduced the overall rez and detail to medium to get Doom 3 too work.



I am just trying to point out there is a Definate need for A FIX as these Drivers are Flawed or something??



Altho I am Glad I can once again at least Play Most of my Games in 3D again, But it could be better ;)



THNX

Nephilim

Intel i5 7600K @ 4.8ghz / MSI Z270 SLI / Asus 1080GTX - 416.16 / Optoma HD142x Projector / 1 4'x10' Curved Screen PVC / TrackIR / HOTAS Cougar / Cougar MFD's / Track IR / NVidia 3D Vision / Win 10 64bit

#11
Posted 10/20/2006 02:52 AM   
Have You tried Alt-Tab'ing out and back in the game? This works with BF2. Raises the fps approx. 400%!? :)
Have You tried Alt-Tab'ing out and back in the game? This works with BF2. Raises the fps approx. 400%!? :)

#12
Posted 10/20/2006 04:00 PM   
I have tried the Alt-Tab trick and it does not work for me.

A very puzzling thingis that the performance is there. I know it because when it works it works great. But something makes the stereo fps to drop drastically. (worse than with my older graphics card)

The problem happens with all games I play in Stereo. All games.
It just started happening when I switched to the latest 9x.xx stereo drivers.

Unfortunately I cannot use older drivers because my new card is not supported then.

Non-Stereo performance is superb!

Can anybody help?
I have tried the Alt-Tab trick and it does not work for me.



A very puzzling thingis that the performance is there. I know it because when it works it works great. But something makes the stereo fps to drop drastically. (worse than with my older graphics card)



The problem happens with all games I play in Stereo. All games.

It just started happening when I switched to the latest 9x.xx stereo drivers.



Unfortunately I cannot use older drivers because my new card is not supported then.



Non-Stereo performance is superb!



Can anybody help?

#13
Posted 10/24/2006 03:10 AM   
As games become more demanding on the GPU subsystem the load also increases on the CPU. Games are getting more geometry and more complex shaders. This data needs to be fed to the GPU from the CPU.

When you render from two camera views you must create twice the geometry. This massively increases the load on the CPU.

A P4 3.0 is already bottlenecking a 6800GT in most or perhaps even all games, even in non-stereo. That's not to say that you have unacceptable performance in most games, just that the CPU is the limiting factor stopping you getting even more.

Now take that bottlenecked area and double the load on it. Of course performance is going to drop substantially.

HTH
As games become more demanding on the GPU subsystem the load also increases on the CPU. Games are getting more geometry and more complex shaders. This data needs to be fed to the GPU from the CPU.



When you render from two camera views you must create twice the geometry. This massively increases the load on the CPU.



A P4 3.0 is already bottlenecking a 6800GT in most or perhaps even all games, even in non-stereo. That's not to say that you have unacceptable performance in most games, just that the CPU is the limiting factor stopping you getting even more.



Now take that bottlenecked area and double the load on it. Of course performance is going to drop substantially.



HTH

It better be.

#14
Posted 10/24/2006 02:26 PM   
[quote name='bigtabs' date='Oct 24 2006, 06:26 AM']As games become more demanding on the GPU subsystem the load also increases on the CPU.  Games are getting more geometry and more complex shaders.  This data needs to be fed to the GPU from the CPU.

When you render from two camera views you must create twice the geometry.  This massively increases the load on the CPU.

A P4 3.0 is already bottlenecking a 6800GT in most or perhaps even all games, even in non-stereo.  That's not to say that you have unacceptable performance in most games, just that the CPU is the limiting factor stopping you getting even more.

Now take that bottlenecked area and double the load on it.  Of course performance is going to drop substantially.

HTH
[right][post="122479"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
Don't take me wrong. I understand the point you are trying to make.
But even if things would be so, I would expect the reduction should be somewhere in proportion to the drop. Let's say half of the fps due to twice the geometry.

However the problem I am describing, is a drop in performance that is worse than the past performance in STEREO, playing the same game in the same pc with a better graphics card (with 9x.xx drivers)

I keep hoping someone has a more optimistic explanation of the problem and a perhaps a hint to solve it.
[quote name='bigtabs' date='Oct 24 2006, 06:26 AM']As games become more demanding on the GPU subsystem the load also increases on the CPU.  Games are getting more geometry and more complex shaders.  This data needs to be fed to the GPU from the CPU.



When you render from two camera views you must create twice the geometry.  This massively increases the load on the CPU.



A P4 3.0 is already bottlenecking a 6800GT in most or perhaps even all games, even in non-stereo.  That's not to say that you have unacceptable performance in most games, just that the CPU is the limiting factor stopping you getting even more.



Now take that bottlenecked area and double the load on it.  Of course performance is going to drop substantially.



HTH

[post="122479"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Don't take me wrong. I understand the point you are trying to make.

But even if things would be so, I would expect the reduction should be somewhere in proportion to the drop. Let's say half of the fps due to twice the geometry.



However the problem I am describing, is a drop in performance that is worse than the past performance in STEREO, playing the same game in the same pc with a better graphics card (with 9x.xx drivers)



I keep hoping someone has a more optimistic explanation of the problem and a perhaps a hint to solve it.

#15
Posted 10/24/2006 11:35 PM   
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