1920 X 1080 @120HZ IN 3d yes!!
  13 / 18    
Forgot that I recently added another 1070 in SLI. Not sure if that is part of the puzzle or not, but I'm updating my signature.
Forgot that I recently added another 1070 in SLI. Not sure if that is part of the puzzle or not, but I'm updating my signature.

3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
Win 10 Pro
i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
8GB RAM
Optoma UHD51A

Posted 11/13/2018 06:59 PM   
[quote="Dazzle233"]I completed the EDID Override with Paul's UHD40 inf. That process was fine (thanks again, Paul!). FYI - I'm only attempting to test games in 3D Vision. [u]Here's what's working fine:[/u] [list] [.]1920x1080 @120Hz 2D[/.] [.]3840x2160 @60Hz 2D using DSR[/.] [.]1920x1080 @60Hz in 3D Vision[/.] [.]1920x1080 @60Hz in 3D Top/Bottom[/.] [.]1280x720 @120Hz in 3D Vision[/.] [/list] Basically, anything in 2D or under the 1920x1080 @120Hz mark in 3D I can get to work as normal. [u]Here's what's not working for me:[/u] [list] [.]1920x1080 @120Hz in 3D Vision w/ Fixes (tested Hollow Knight, Grid 2, Ori, Mad Max)[/.] [.]1920x1080 @120Hz in Native Top/Bottom (tested Trine 2)[/.] [/list] Trine 2 was interesting, in that I got the projector in Top/Bottom 3D mode successfully in 1920x1080 @120Hz, but it had some scrambled scanlines and the screen was jumpy. I could tell the 120Hz reported was legitimate, as the frames were much smoother compared to 60Hz, but the erratic output was unplayable. Even with the messiness, I was able to get a glimpse of how good 1080p/120Hz 3D can be. I was able to lauch some games in 1920x1080x120 without errors about unsupported resolutions from 3D Vision, but there seems to be some conflict with the 3D Vision 2 Kit emitter and the native operation for DLP 3D glasses with the UHD51A. That leads to.... [u]What I don't understand about the solution[/u]: [list] [.][b]What is the pyramid/emitter's role beyond enabling higher resolutions as a glorified license key?[/b] I just have the pyramid plugged into the PC via USB. It's not connected my projector with the 3 pin cable or anything else. When I hit Ctrl+T in a 3D Vision enabled game, the green nVidia logo on the pyramid lights up and the separate images for each eye appear (I see the doubling in 2D on the screen and a decent amount of flickering). From that point, the 3D glasses with the Kit do nothing when turned on. Additionally, it doesn't automatically trigger any 3D modes, nor can I enable 3D successfully from the projector menu, so my DLP glasses can't do anything either. Prior to involving the 3D Vision Kit...when I was just using 3DTV Play...Ctrl+T would turn the software on and automatically kick the projector into Frame-packing 3D mode. It would also automatically sort out top/bottom or SBS content and trigger the appropriate 3D mode. It definitely seems like the pyramid thinks it's in control. I can also scroll the wheel on the pyramid to play with the depth. As far as the pyramid being able to control the 3D functions of 3D Vision software, it appears to work as designed, minus the glasses kicking on. [/.] [.][b]What should be selected in the 3D setup wizard within the nVidia control panel?[/b] I read through some posts related to this here and on AVS, but I wasn't able to put the projector in 1920x1080 @120Hz 3D mode manually during the wizard. The projector seems like it's trying to activate 3D mode, but then it does nothing and reverts back to '3D off' after a few seconds of doing nothing. Similar results when trying to run a 3D Vision game. I'm getting through the wizard in 2D mode.[/.] [/list] It feels like I'm pretty close with the UHD51A in 1080p/120Hz 3D. If I can get this solved, I'd be happy to put together very clear documentation for this process for anyone else wanting to make use of it. There are an intimidating amount of moving parts from hardware to software...and that's coming from a guy who deals with application architecture for a day job. [b]Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks![/b] [/quote] Thanks for the detailed post, assuming we can get it going it's doing as all a favour as it opens up more options. Here's my take on the above, although I'm a bit unclear about what glasses you were using with each test and what mode the projector was in? Unless the projector natively supports Frame sequential 3d at 1920x1080x120Hz input, then you probably can't use a 3d mode on the projector and you probably can't use the DLP glasses. Since the UHD51A is a HDMI/Framepacked 3d device, it probably doesn't support 1920x1080x120Hz input in frame sequential, it probably only supports 3DTV play resolutions and formats, which ties in with what you've successfully tested, I think.. These probably worked with DLP glasses? So this is all pre-EDID mod. Post EDID mod, I think the only way you'll be able to get 1920x1080x120Hz working in 3D (3d vision) is if you can successfully configure it as a Generic CRT device in the Nvidia control panel. That should activate the emitter and activate the 3d vision glasses. The benefit of the actual UHD40 is that it has a built in 3d mode for frame sequential 1920x1080x120Hz, so it's aware that this is a 3d mode and will engage the DLP sync flash (probably a white flash?) and enable the ability to use DLP glasses. Hope this helps rather than confuses. I'm looking to Paul to chip in as not sure if I'm exactly right about the UHD40 and the EDID. Also, another thing I've found is that Windows and the Nvidia drivers easily get confused with multiple displays being connected. Ideally you just want to be running the projector only, just to rule out anything else. Also Windows 10 has a habit of turning it's own 3d switch on and off and I'm not sure this helps either. In (my world) in theory, you should be able to use *an* EDID to hide the native 3d modes of the projector but advertise 1920x1080x120Hz. Then, with the emitter connected, you can enable generic CRT mode. This will enable you to use the display as a native 3d vision device, but you'll have to use the Nvidia glasses, as the sync will be via IR between the emitter and the 3d vision glasses, rather than via a DLP flash from the projector. This should definitely work in theory, but in practice you might get crosstalk due to timing issues. That's why Paul played it safe and bought the UHD40 which natively supports frame sequential 3d.
Dazzle233 said:I completed the EDID Override with Paul's UHD40 inf. That process was fine (thanks again, Paul!).

FYI - I'm only attempting to test games in 3D Vision.

Here's what's working fine:

  • 1920x1080 @120Hz 2D
  • 3840x2160 @60Hz 2D using DSR
  • 1920x1080 @60Hz in 3D Vision
  • 1920x1080 @60Hz in 3D Top/Bottom
  • 1280x720 @120Hz in 3D Vision


Basically, anything in 2D or under the 1920x1080 @120Hz mark in 3D I can get to work as normal.


Here's what's not working for me:

  • 1920x1080 @120Hz in 3D Vision w/ Fixes (tested Hollow Knight, Grid 2, Ori, Mad Max)
  • 1920x1080 @120Hz in Native Top/Bottom (tested Trine 2)


Trine 2 was interesting, in that I got the projector in Top/Bottom 3D mode successfully in 1920x1080 @120Hz, but it had some scrambled scanlines and the screen was jumpy. I could tell the 120Hz reported was legitimate, as the frames were much smoother compared to 60Hz, but the erratic output was unplayable. Even with the messiness, I was able to get a glimpse of how good 1080p/120Hz 3D can be.

I was able to lauch some games in 1920x1080x120 without errors about unsupported resolutions from 3D Vision, but there seems to be some conflict with the 3D Vision 2 Kit emitter and the native operation for DLP 3D glasses with the UHD51A.

That leads to....


What I don't understand about the solution:

  • What is the pyramid/emitter's role beyond enabling higher resolutions as a glorified license key?

    I just have the pyramid plugged into the PC via USB. It's not connected my projector with the 3 pin cable or anything else.

    When I hit Ctrl+T in a 3D Vision enabled game, the green nVidia logo on the pyramid lights up and the separate images for each eye appear (I see the doubling in 2D on the screen and a decent amount of flickering). From that point, the 3D glasses with the Kit do nothing when turned on. Additionally, it doesn't automatically trigger any 3D modes, nor can I enable 3D successfully from the projector menu, so my DLP glasses can't do anything either. Prior to involving the 3D Vision Kit...when I was just using 3DTV Play...Ctrl+T would turn the software on and automatically kick the projector into Frame-packing 3D mode. It would also automatically sort out top/bottom or SBS content and trigger the appropriate 3D mode.

    It definitely seems like the pyramid thinks it's in control. I can also scroll the wheel on the pyramid to play with the depth. As far as the pyramid being able to control the 3D functions of 3D Vision software, it appears to work as designed, minus the glasses kicking on.


  • What should be selected in the 3D setup wizard within the nVidia control panel?

    I read through some posts related to this here and on AVS, but I wasn't able to put the projector in 1920x1080 @120Hz 3D mode manually during the wizard. The projector seems like it's trying to activate 3D mode, but then it does nothing and reverts back to '3D off' after a few seconds of doing nothing. Similar results when trying to run a 3D Vision game. I'm getting through the wizard in 2D mode.


It feels like I'm pretty close with the UHD51A in 1080p/120Hz 3D. If I can get this solved, I'd be happy to put together very clear documentation for this process for anyone else wanting to make use of it. There are an intimidating amount of moving parts from hardware to software...and that's coming from a guy who deals with application architecture for a day job.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!



Thanks for the detailed post, assuming we can get it going it's doing as all a favour as it opens up more options.

Here's my take on the above, although I'm a bit unclear about what glasses you were using with each test and what mode the projector was in?

Unless the projector natively supports Frame sequential 3d at 1920x1080x120Hz input, then you probably can't use a 3d mode on the projector and you probably can't use the DLP glasses.

Since the UHD51A is a HDMI/Framepacked 3d device, it probably doesn't support 1920x1080x120Hz input in frame sequential, it probably only supports 3DTV play resolutions and formats, which ties in with what you've successfully tested, I think.. These probably worked with DLP glasses? So this is all pre-EDID mod.

Post EDID mod, I think the only way you'll be able to get 1920x1080x120Hz working in 3D (3d vision) is if you can successfully configure it as a Generic CRT device in the Nvidia control panel. That should activate the emitter and activate the 3d vision glasses.
The benefit of the actual UHD40 is that it has a built in 3d mode for frame sequential 1920x1080x120Hz, so it's aware that this is a 3d mode and will engage the DLP sync flash (probably a white flash?) and enable the ability to use DLP glasses.

Hope this helps rather than confuses. I'm looking to Paul to chip in as not sure if I'm exactly right about the UHD40 and the EDID.

Also, another thing I've found is that Windows and the Nvidia drivers easily get confused with multiple displays being connected. Ideally you just want to be running the projector only, just to rule out anything else. Also Windows 10 has a habit of turning it's own 3d switch on and off and I'm not sure this helps either.

In (my world) in theory, you should be able to use *an* EDID to hide the native 3d modes of the projector but advertise 1920x1080x120Hz. Then, with the emitter connected, you can enable generic CRT mode. This will enable you to use the display as a native 3d vision device, but you'll have to use the Nvidia glasses, as the sync will be via IR between the emitter and the 3d vision glasses, rather than via a DLP flash from the projector.

This should definitely work in theory, but in practice you might get crosstalk due to timing issues. That's why Paul played it safe and bought the UHD40 which natively supports frame sequential 3d.

Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

Posted 11/13/2018 07:29 PM   
Hi Dazzle, thx for your feedback. I just had a look into the [url=https://www.optoma.de/ContentStorage/Documents/ac5534ce-71f4-4b32-9350-ade3971f3ba2.pdf]Optoma UHD 51 manual[/url] and it tells on page 26 that SBS / TaB and Frame Packing is supported. Frame sequential is not listed on this page. Assuming that the manual is correct then DLP glasses can't be used for 3D Vision mode. You have to use your 3D Vision glasses then. @rustyk21: yes, you're right. Optoma UHD 40 has a built in 3d mode for frame sequential. Actually it's the only 3D mode available. However DLP sync flash does not enable automatically - I have to press the "3D" button on the remote control. @Dazzle: When reading your post it's not clear if your projector is recognized as a Generic CRT after applying the EDID override. When you open Nvidia Control Panel - is your projector listed as a 3DTV Play device or Generic CRT? As rustyk21 mentioned - this is the first and most important step to make the whole thing work.
Hi Dazzle,

thx for your feedback.

I just had a look into the Optoma UHD 51 manual and it tells on page 26 that SBS / TaB and Frame Packing is supported. Frame sequential is not listed on this page. Assuming that the manual is correct then DLP glasses
can't be used for 3D Vision mode. You have to use your 3D Vision glasses then.

@rustyk21: yes, you're right. Optoma UHD 40 has a built in 3d mode for frame sequential. Actually it's the only 3D mode available. However DLP sync flash does not enable automatically - I have to press the "3D" button on the remote control.

@Dazzle: When reading your post it's not clear if your projector is recognized as a Generic CRT after applying the EDID override. When you open Nvidia Control Panel - is your projector listed as a 3DTV Play device or Generic CRT? As rustyk21 mentioned - this is the first and most important step to make the whole thing work.

ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de

Posted 11/13/2018 08:54 PM   
I just popped in a 3D Blu-ray into a PS3 and it reported to the projector as 24Hz during playback. It would seem to me that if it's only 12 frames per eye, it would be extremely choppy, but it's as smooth as watching any other 2D blu-ray. What I'm trying to understand, is when sending frame packed 3D content, does the projector only report half of it's actual refresh rate? If the 3D Blu-ray I just tested was reporting 24Hz, then 1080p 3D material at 60 frames per eye would also report 60hz, right? So....maybe it's been working somewhat and I've just been mistakenly taking the reported 3D refresh rate at face value? Should I only be forcing 1920x1080x60 in game because the projector handles the additional frames for frame-packed 3D secretly in the background? If 24Hz in 3D = 48Hz and 24 frames per eye, then 60Hz in 3D = 120Hz and 60 frames per eye, right?
I just popped in a 3D Blu-ray into a PS3 and it reported to the projector as 24Hz during playback. It would seem to me that if it's only 12 frames per eye, it would be extremely choppy, but it's as smooth as watching any other 2D blu-ray.

What I'm trying to understand, is when sending frame packed 3D content, does the projector only report half of it's actual refresh rate? If the 3D Blu-ray I just tested was reporting 24Hz, then 1080p 3D material at 60 frames per eye would also report 60hz, right?

So....maybe it's been working somewhat and I've just been mistakenly taking the reported 3D refresh rate at face value? Should I only be forcing 1920x1080x60 in game because the projector handles the additional frames for frame-packed 3D secretly in the background?

If 24Hz in 3D = 48Hz and 24 frames per eye, then 60Hz in 3D = 120Hz and 60 frames per eye, right?

3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
Win 10 Pro
i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
8GB RAM
Optoma UHD51A

Posted 11/13/2018 09:59 PM   
[quote="Pauldusler"]Hi Dazzle, thx for your feedback. I just had a look into the [url=https://www.optoma.de/ContentStorage/Documents/ac5534ce-71f4-4b32-9350-ade3971f3ba2.pdf]Optoma UHD 51 manual[/url] and it tells on page 26 that SBS / TaB and Frame Packing is supported. Frame sequential is not listed on this page. Assuming that the manual is correct then DLP glasses can't be used for 3D Vision mode. You have to use your 3D Vision glasses then. @rustyk21: yes, you're right. Optoma UHD 40 has a built in 3d mode for frame sequential. Actually it's the only 3D mode available. However DLP sync flash does not enable automatically - I have to press the "3D" button on the remote control. @Dazzle: When reading your post it's not clear if your projector is recognized as a Generic CRT after applying the EDID override. When you open Nvidia Control Panel - is your projector listed as a 3DTV Play device or Generic CRT? As rustyk21 mentioned - this is the first and most important step to make the whole thing work.[/quote] Hey Paul, It is showing up as Generic CRT in the nVidia Control Panel, yes.
Pauldusler said:Hi Dazzle,

thx for your feedback.

I just had a look into the Optoma UHD 51 manual and it tells on page 26 that SBS / TaB and Frame Packing is supported. Frame sequential is not listed on this page. Assuming that the manual is correct then DLP glasses
can't be used for 3D Vision mode. You have to use your 3D Vision glasses then.

@rustyk21: yes, you're right. Optoma UHD 40 has a built in 3d mode for frame sequential. Actually it's the only 3D mode available. However DLP sync flash does not enable automatically - I have to press the "3D" button on the remote control.

@Dazzle: When reading your post it's not clear if your projector is recognized as a Generic CRT after applying the EDID override. When you open Nvidia Control Panel - is your projector listed as a 3DTV Play device or Generic CRT? As rustyk21 mentioned - this is the first and most important step to make the whole thing work.


Hey Paul,

It is showing up as Generic CRT in the nVidia Control Panel, yes.

3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
Win 10 Pro
i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
8GB RAM
Optoma UHD51A

Posted 11/13/2018 10:00 PM   
Here are some details to hopefully address Paul and Rusty's questions, as well as shed some light on what I could find about the available modes on the UHD51A as compared to the UHD40/50. I have two pairs of glasses in my testing scenario: [olist] [.]Glasses included in the 3D Vision Kit 2[/.] [.]Basic DLP 144Hz glasses that sync directly with the projector[/.] [/olist] The UHD51A has an on/off option to enable/disable 3D in the menu, as well as 4 available 3D formats to set in the menu once 3D has been enabled: [olist] [.]Auto[/.] [.]Top/Bottom[/.] [.]Side By Side[/.] [.]Frame-Packing (so far, this one is always grayed out)[/.] [/olist] Pre-EDID Override (UHD40), 1080p24 and 720p60 were the ceilings for 3DTV Play. With 3DTV Play, anything higher than those would generate the red text that the resolution isn't supported. I haven't seen any of that since adding the 3D Vision Kit and applying the EDID Override. The projector specs don't claim to support 1920x1080 @120Hz on either projector (according to the documentation I found...spec sheets and user manuals). The UHD50 & UHD51A both support the exact same range of resolutions and refresh rates for HDMI 2.0. The spec sheets are identical in listing: [list] [.]Two HDMI 2.0 ports w/ HDCP 2.2 & MHL 2.1[/.] [.]Max Resolution is 4096x2160 @60Hz[/.] [.]Native Resolution 1920x1080 @60Hz[/.] [.]Vertical scan rate is "120Hz for 3D feature projector"[/.] [/list] The ONLY difference I found between them in terms of video modes or refresh rates, was the '3D compatibility sections of the spec sheets. The UHD51A spec sheet includes a '3D Compatibility' section that expands on the selectable formats: [list] [.]Side-by-side: 1080i @50/60, 720p @50/60[/.] [.]Blu-ray 3D/Frame Pack: 1080p @24, 720p @50/60[/.] [.]Over-under: 1080p @24, 720p @50/60[/.] [/list] One other interesting note is a difference between the user manuals. Under the 'Display Mode' portion of the documentation, there is a mention of '3D' in both manuals. [.]UHD50: "To experience the 3D effect, you need to have 3D glasses. Make sure your PC/portable device has a 120 Hz signal output quad buffered graphics card and a 3D Player installed."[/.] [.]UHD51A: "To experience the 3D effect, you need to have 3D glasses. Make sure a Blu-ray 3D DVD player is installed."[/.] Additionally, the 3D menus are very similar as well. Both have a '3D Mode' option to enable/disable 3D manually. Both have a '3D Sync Invert' option to invert eyes. The UHD51A, as previously mentioned, has an extra option for '3D Format' in which you can choose one of the 4 types listed above. FYI - I don't see 'Frame Sequential' anywhere in documentation for either projector. Beyond that, I can't find any differences in video mode support. Refresh rates, maximum resolutions and everything else looks the same. Frame-Packing 3D and manual selection of TaB and SBS seems to be the only difference. I searched the spec sheets and the user manuals for details. Not that they're necessarily 100% accurate, but on paper UHD51A is simply UHD40/50+ (+3D modes, +Alexa).
Here are some details to hopefully address Paul and Rusty's questions, as well as shed some light on what I could find about the available modes on the UHD51A as compared to the UHD40/50.


I have two pairs of glasses in my testing scenario:

  1. Glasses included in the 3D Vision Kit 2
  2. Basic DLP 144Hz glasses that sync directly with the projector


The UHD51A has an on/off option to enable/disable 3D in the menu, as well as 4 available 3D formats to set in the menu once 3D has been enabled:

  1. Auto
  2. Top/Bottom
  3. Side By Side
  4. Frame-Packing (so far, this one is always grayed out)



Pre-EDID Override (UHD40), 1080p24 and 720p60 were the ceilings for 3DTV Play. With 3DTV Play, anything higher than those would generate the red text that the resolution isn't supported. I haven't seen any of that since adding the 3D Vision Kit and applying the EDID Override.




The projector specs don't claim to support 1920x1080 @120Hz on either projector (according to the documentation I found...spec sheets and user manuals).

The UHD50 & UHD51A both support the exact same range of resolutions and refresh rates for HDMI 2.0. The spec sheets are identical in listing:

  • Two HDMI 2.0 ports w/ HDCP 2.2 & MHL 2.1
  • Max Resolution is 4096x2160 @60Hz
  • Native Resolution 1920x1080 @60Hz
  • Vertical scan rate is "120Hz for 3D feature projector"


The ONLY difference I found between them in terms of video modes or refresh rates, was the '3D compatibility sections of the spec sheets. The UHD51A spec sheet includes a '3D Compatibility' section that expands on the selectable formats:

  • Side-by-side: 1080i @50/60, 720p @50/60
  • Blu-ray 3D/Frame Pack: 1080p @24, 720p @50/60
  • Over-under: 1080p @24, 720p @50/60

One other interesting note is a difference between the user manuals. Under the 'Display Mode' portion of the documentation, there is a mention of '3D' in both manuals.

  • UHD50: "To experience the 3D effect, you need to have 3D glasses. Make sure your PC/portable device
    has a 120 Hz signal output quad buffered graphics card and a 3D Player installed."

  • UHD51A: "To experience the 3D effect, you need to have 3D glasses. Make sure a Blu-ray 3D DVD player is
    installed."


  • Additionally, the 3D menus are very similar as well. Both have a '3D Mode' option to enable/disable 3D manually. Both have a '3D Sync Invert' option to invert eyes. The UHD51A, as previously mentioned, has an extra option for '3D Format' in which you can choose one of the 4 types listed above.

    FYI - I don't see 'Frame Sequential' anywhere in documentation for either projector.

    Beyond that, I can't find any differences in video mode support. Refresh rates, maximum resolutions and everything else looks the same. Frame-Packing 3D and manual selection of TaB and SBS seems to be the only difference. I searched the spec sheets and the user manuals for details. Not that they're necessarily 100% accurate, but on paper UHD51A is simply UHD40/50+ (+3D modes, +Alexa).

    3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
    EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
    Win 10 Pro
    i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
    8GB RAM
    Optoma UHD51A

    Posted 11/13/2018 10:05 PM   
    Sorry for the post grenade, but I think I've answered my own question about the frame-packing format. True to name, it apparently 'packs' the data for each eye into a single frame, by stacking a set of full-sized images for each eye on top of each other. Therefore, unlike frame sequential, where an additional blank frame for every inactive eye is needed (doubling the required refresh rate)...frame-packing can apparently get the job done in 1Hz per frame of content. This may not be news to anyone else, but it's big for my understanding. It explains why the 3D blu-ray movie was a full 24fps for both eyes at only 24Hz. This also explains why trying to force 120Hz down 3D Vision's throat in game may be futile. Now that I've got a little clarity on what I'm seeing with refresh rates in the projector's 3D modes, I'll do some more testing and report back later. Thanks!
    Sorry for the post grenade, but I think I've answered my own question about the frame-packing format. True to name, it apparently 'packs' the data for each eye into a single frame, by stacking a set of full-sized images for each eye on top of each other. Therefore, unlike frame sequential, where an additional blank frame for every inactive eye is needed (doubling the required refresh rate)...frame-packing can apparently get the job done in 1Hz per frame of content.

    This may not be news to anyone else, but it's big for my understanding. It explains why the 3D blu-ray movie was a full 24fps for both eyes at only 24Hz. This also explains why trying to force 120Hz down 3D Vision's throat in game may be futile.

    Now that I've got a little clarity on what I'm seeing with refresh rates in the projector's 3D modes, I'll do some more testing and report back later.


    Thanks!

    3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
    EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
    Win 10 Pro
    i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
    8GB RAM
    Optoma UHD51A

    Posted 11/13/2018 10:31 PM   
    Ok that' a good start when it is detected as a Generic CRT device! Forcing 1920x1080 @60hz would not achieve the desired effect for 3D Vision. This would only work for 3DTV Play (Framepacking) - but for this a maximum of 24 hz is supported in 1920x080. Framepacking works by packing 2 full HD pictures in one Frame which results in a resolution of 1920 x 2205. This frame is send to the projector then where it is unpacked and each picture shown sequentially. Unfortunately the HDMI 1.4a 3D standard was never updated. We're still stuck at 1920x1080 @24 hz for framepacking. Concerning supported 3D formats for UHD 50 there was indeed no clear information in the manual. It only says that we need a 120 hz output signal. But indirectly everything pointed out that Optoma meant frame sequential 3D format with this. And the assumption was correct. For Optoma UHD 51A it seems they removed frame sequential support. Why do I think this? Because in the past I tried Optoma HD27 and it also had the extra option for "3D Format" like the UHD 51A. However I could choose "Frame Sequential" mode there as well as T/B, SBS and Frame Packing. My best guess is that Optoma removed frame sequential mode for UHD 51A because it's useless for blueray players and they only designed it for 3D contents from those. So I think the only way is to use your 3D Vision glasses. What does exactly happen when you start a game in 1280 x 720 @120hz mode and EDID override applied? Does this work and do the 3D Vision glasses sync correctly?
    Ok that' a good start when it is detected as a Generic CRT device!


    Forcing 1920x1080 @60hz would not achieve the desired effect for 3D Vision. This would only work for 3DTV Play (Framepacking) - but for this a maximum of 24 hz is supported in 1920x080. Framepacking works by packing 2 full HD pictures in one Frame which results in a resolution of 1920 x 2205. This frame is send to the projector then where it is unpacked and each picture shown sequentially. Unfortunately the HDMI 1.4a 3D standard was never updated. We're still stuck at 1920x1080 @24 hz for framepacking.


    Concerning supported 3D formats for UHD 50 there was indeed no clear information in the manual. It only says that we need a 120 hz output signal. But indirectly everything pointed out that Optoma meant frame sequential 3D format with this. And the assumption was correct.

    For Optoma UHD 51A it seems they removed frame sequential support. Why do I think this? Because in the past I tried Optoma HD27 and it also had the extra option for "3D Format" like the UHD 51A. However I could choose "Frame Sequential" mode there as well as T/B, SBS and Frame Packing. My best guess is that Optoma removed frame sequential mode for UHD 51A because it's useless for blueray players and they only designed it for 3D contents from those.

    So I think the only way is to use your 3D Vision glasses.


    What does exactly happen when you start a game in 1280 x 720 @120hz mode and EDID override applied? Does this work and do the 3D Vision glasses sync correctly?

    ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
    Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
    Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
    Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de

    Posted 11/13/2018 11:30 PM   
    Another thing you might have to do, is enable 'silent mode' to disable the XPR pixel shifting. This would enable to you address the DLP's native 1920x1080 mode without it upscaling to 4k. However, it might do that automatically when you feed it 1920x1080x120Hz Paul's right, sounds like the projector doesn't natively support frame sequential mode, but that just means that you need to use the Nvidia emitter and glasses. Also, I'm assuming it's displaying the input properly, but it might be worth trying a couple of the Blurbuster tests: https://www.testufo.com/ https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping
    Another thing you might have to do, is enable 'silent mode' to disable the XPR pixel shifting.
    This would enable to you address the DLP's native 1920x1080 mode without it upscaling to 4k. However, it might do that automatically when you feed it 1920x1080x120Hz

    Paul's right, sounds like the projector doesn't natively support frame sequential mode, but that just means that you need to use the Nvidia emitter and glasses.

    Also, I'm assuming it's displaying the input properly, but it might be worth trying a couple of the Blurbuster tests: https://www.testufo.com/
    https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping

    Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

    Posted 11/14/2018 10:50 AM   
    @rustyk21: Yes your assumption is correct. Concerning UHD 40 the projector automatically goes into "silent" mode when it receives a 120hz input signal. There is no separate XPR on / off option in the OSD. Probably the same applies for UHD51A. Btw I tried to make my projector work with the 3D Vision glasses and I failed again. It does not work at all when I do not enable 3D / DLP sync flash. So at this point I have exactly the same problem as Dazzle. But when enabling 3D in the OSD 3D Vision glasses start to work but they don't sync properly. Periodically it's synced perfectly then a few seconds later I see a lot of ghosting and then it's perfect again - so it's useless. But even if it worked with the 3D Vision glasses it wouldn't be ideal because the sync flash destroys the black level. 3D Vision glasses don't filter them out. So DLP glasses are the only choice for Optoma UHD 40/50. If Dazzle could somehow convince the projector to enable 3D in the OSD it would work. Maybe it's possible with a firmware update. Btw I've started a topic about [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1079987/3d-vision/optoma-uhd-40-50-3d-vision-projector-1920x1080-120hz-/]Optoma UHD 40 / 50 here[/url]. Some infos get lost easily in this thread so I started to summarize the most important information in a separate topic.
    @rustyk21: Yes your assumption is correct. Concerning UHD 40 the projector automatically goes into "silent" mode when it receives a 120hz input signal. There is no separate XPR on / off option in the OSD. Probably the same applies for UHD51A.

    Btw I tried to make my projector work with the 3D Vision glasses and I failed again. It does not work at all when I do not enable 3D / DLP sync flash. So at this point I have exactly the same problem as Dazzle.

    But when enabling 3D in the OSD 3D Vision glasses start to work but they don't sync properly. Periodically it's synced perfectly then a few seconds later I see a lot of ghosting and then it's perfect again - so it's useless. But even if it worked with the 3D Vision glasses it wouldn't be ideal because the sync flash destroys the black level. 3D Vision glasses don't filter them out. So DLP glasses are the only choice for Optoma UHD 40/50.

    If Dazzle could somehow convince the projector to enable 3D in the OSD it would work. Maybe it's possible with a firmware update.


    Btw I've started a topic about Optoma UHD 40 / 50 here. Some infos get lost easily in this thread so I started to summarize the most important information in a separate topic.

    ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
    Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
    Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
    Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de

    Posted 11/14/2018 11:55 AM   
    Couple of notes on my brief adventure with the UHD51A's 3D capability. [list] [.][color="orange"]When the nVidia pyramid was plugged in, I couldn't get 3D any frame-packed 3D to work[/color] (including 3D blu-rays via PowerDVD 18). If the light was on the dongle, the projector would not enter a 3D mode. Every time I had unexpected 3D issues, I looked over and saw that green light glowing brightly. It's like a hostile takeover of 3D ineptitude. To troubleshoot, I uninstalled the EDID override for the UHD40 and let Windows restore the original driver for the UHD51A. It gets detected as 'Optoma UHD' in the nVidia control panel and also shows as 'Generic CRT' in the stereo 3D settings. Following that, I was able to play 3D Blu rays just fine (tested with Tangled...which BTW looks incredible from 11 ft at 140"...it's like watching live theater from the front row)[/.] [.][color="orange"]If I understand correctly...[/color] '3DTV Play' is frame-packed 3D only and limited to 720p60 or 1080p24 '3D Vision' enabled via hardware dongle is capable of producing 1920x1080x120 in stereo 3D (60 per eye), but only operates in frame sequential 3D mode When combining 3D Vision's frame sequential output of 1920x1080x120 and DSR, it sounds like that's where you can get the greatest potential for image quality. Unfortunately, with the available projectors, that seems to be at the expense of additional 3D modes for broader compatibility[/.] I think that's where I'm at today....beginning to understand that tradeoff. [color="green"]As of this moment, I'm leaning toward continuing to using my old combination of 3DTV Play, 3Dmigoto, DSR/Gedosato, 3Dmigoto exactly as I did with my Benq w1070.[/color] One of my biggest reasons for 4K was that I'm going to be sitting closer to the screen in my new theater space and didn't want to see pixelation. Based on what I've seen with the 3D blu-rays so far, that might be good enough. I'll probably try to remove the 4K resolutions and get DSR going to see if the image quality at 720p60 via 3DTV play is still good enough. Also, wanting to try SBS and TaB via 3Dmigoto. Since the 3D Vision Kit emitter consistently gives me problems and I couldn't get the glasses to work at all, I'll likely return that to amazon since I bought it new. I think the UHD51A is the right projector for my needs given the 3D modes, I'm just disappointed that 1920x1080x120 doesn't seem to be attainable with it. [/list]
    Couple of notes on my brief adventure with the UHD51A's 3D capability.

    • When the nVidia pyramid was plugged in, I couldn't get 3D any frame-packed 3D to work
      (including 3D blu-rays via PowerDVD 18). If the light was on the dongle, the projector would not enter a 3D mode. Every time I had unexpected 3D issues, I looked over and saw that green light glowing brightly. It's like a hostile takeover of 3D ineptitude.

      To troubleshoot, I uninstalled the EDID override for the UHD40 and let Windows restore the original driver for the UHD51A. It gets detected as 'Optoma UHD' in the nVidia control panel and also shows as 'Generic CRT' in the stereo 3D settings.

      Following that, I was able to play 3D Blu rays just fine (tested with Tangled...which BTW looks incredible from 11 ft at 140"...it's like watching live theater from the front row)


    • If I understand correctly...


      '3DTV Play' is frame-packed 3D only and limited to 720p60 or 1080p24

      '3D Vision' enabled via hardware dongle is capable of producing 1920x1080x120 in stereo 3D (60 per eye), but only operates in frame sequential 3D mode

      When combining 3D Vision's frame sequential output of 1920x1080x120 and DSR, it sounds like that's where you can get the greatest potential for image quality. Unfortunately, with the available projectors, that seems to be at the expense of additional 3D modes for broader compatibility



    • I think that's where I'm at today....beginning to understand that tradeoff. As of this moment, I'm leaning toward continuing to using my old combination of 3DTV Play, 3Dmigoto, DSR/Gedosato, 3Dmigoto exactly as I did with my Benq w1070.


      One of my biggest reasons for 4K was that I'm going to be sitting closer to the screen in my new theater space and didn't want to see pixelation. Based on what I've seen with the 3D blu-rays so far, that might be good enough. I'll probably try to remove the 4K resolutions and get DSR going to see if the image quality at 720p60 via 3DTV play is still good enough. Also, wanting to try SBS and TaB via 3Dmigoto.

      Since the 3D Vision Kit emitter consistently gives me problems and I couldn't get the glasses to work at all, I'll likely return that to amazon since I bought it new.

      I think the UHD51A is the right projector for my needs given the 3D modes, I'm just disappointed that 1920x1080x120 doesn't seem to be attainable with it.

    3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
    EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
    Win 10 Pro
    i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
    8GB RAM
    Optoma UHD51A

    Posted 11/14/2018 03:03 PM   
    [quote="Dazzle233"] [.][color="orange"]If I understand correctly...[/color] '3DTV Play' is frame-packed 3D only and limited to 720p60 or 1080p24 '3D Vision' enabled via hardware dongle is capable of producing 1920x1080x120 in stereo 3D (60 per eye), but only operates in frame sequential 3D mode When combining 3D Vision's frame sequential output of 1920x1080x120 and DSR, it sounds like that's where you can get the greatest potential for image quality. Unfortunately, with the available projectors, that seems to be at the expense of additional 3D modes for broader compatibility[/.] [/quote] This is correct, although there are different modes (i.e. Checkerboard) buried within 3dtv play. I think. I get confused now in my old age, lol. Fundamentally though, 3dtv play is framepacked HDMI and limited in resolution/frequency compared to 3d vision mode, which is FS. Interlaced output is actually possible as well, but probably only applicable to passive 3d displays. Silly question, but have you tried 4k@60Hz output to the projector? Just wondering if the HDMI cable is up to speed. Also, I'm curious about exactly how you're testing 3d vision mode. Are you completing the Nvidia 3d setup wizard? When you say it doesn't work, does the emitter light up? The green Nvidia logo should go bright. Do the 3d vision glasses activate? You would be able to tell as you'd see the lcd shutters flickering. The reason this is important is because the drivers can be finicky as well. But, with a generic CRT display you should be able to complete the 3d wizard setup and show the test pattern. I had issues with this when I tried my spare PC on an OLED screen. It seemed really fussy and I had to do a number of reboots and a clean driver install to make sure 3d vision (emitter and glasses) activated properly. It may well be that attempts are doomed to failure, but I wouldn't discount a software problem.
    Dazzle233 said:

  • If I understand correctly...


    '3DTV Play' is frame-packed 3D only and limited to 720p60 or 1080p24

    '3D Vision' enabled via hardware dongle is capable of producing 1920x1080x120 in stereo 3D (60 per eye), but only operates in frame sequential 3D mode

    When combining 3D Vision's frame sequential output of 1920x1080x120 and DSR, it sounds like that's where you can get the greatest potential for image quality. Unfortunately, with the available projectors, that seems to be at the expense of additional 3D modes for broader compatibility



  • This is correct, although there are different modes (i.e. Checkerboard) buried within 3dtv play. I think. I get confused now in my old age, lol. Fundamentally though, 3dtv play is framepacked HDMI and limited in resolution/frequency compared to 3d vision mode, which is FS.
    Interlaced output is actually possible as well, but probably only applicable to passive 3d displays.

    Silly question, but have you tried 4k@60Hz output to the projector? Just wondering if the HDMI cable is up to speed.

    Also, I'm curious about exactly how you're testing 3d vision mode. Are you completing the Nvidia 3d setup wizard?
    When you say it doesn't work, does the emitter light up? The green Nvidia logo should go bright. Do the 3d vision glasses activate? You would be able to tell as you'd see the lcd shutters flickering.

    The reason this is important is because the drivers can be finicky as well. But, with a generic CRT display you should be able to complete the 3d wizard setup and show the test pattern.
    I had issues with this when I tried my spare PC on an OLED screen. It seemed really fussy and I had to do a number of reboots and a clean driver install to make sure 3d vision (emitter and glasses) activated properly.

    It may well be that attempts are doomed to failure, but I wouldn't discount a software problem.

    Gigabyte RTX2080TI Gaming OC, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

    Posted 11/14/2018 03:18 PM   
    I'm a bit surpised that UHD51A is recognized as a Generic CRT without an EDID override. So does it currently behave like 3DTV Play although Generic CRT ist shown? That would mean that Generic CRT mode is like a dynamic mode which can send framepacked content as well as frame sequential content. But that would be new for me. [quote="Dazzle233"] [.][color="orange"]If I understand correctly...[/color][/.] [/quote] Indeed your words are all corret. 3DTV is limited to 1080p@24hz and 3D Vision only operates in frame sequential mode. DSR produces the best image quality when running 4k@120hz. I think it would be worth asking Optoma if they have a firmware upgrade for UHD 51A. It would be so simple to make 3D Vision work if the OSD would accept frame sequential 3D content. I know that they added 3D support to another projector afterwards so maybe they improve things for UHD51A as well.
    I'm a bit surpised that UHD51A is recognized as a Generic CRT without an EDID override. So does it currently behave like 3DTV Play although Generic CRT ist shown? That would mean that Generic CRT mode is like a dynamic mode which can send framepacked content as well as frame sequential content. But that would be new for me.

    Dazzle233 said:
  • If I understand correctly...

  • Indeed your words are all corret. 3DTV is limited to 1080p@24hz and 3D Vision only operates in frame sequential mode. DSR produces the best image quality when running 4k@120hz.

    I think it would be worth asking Optoma if they have a firmware upgrade for UHD 51A. It would be so simple to make 3D Vision work if the OSD would accept frame sequential 3D content. I know that they added 3D support to another projector afterwards so maybe they improve things for UHD51A as well.

    ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
    Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
    Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
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    Posted 11/14/2018 03:31 PM   
    [quote="rustyk21"] When you say it doesn't work, does the emitter light up? The green Nvidia logo should go bright. Do the 3d vision glasses activate? You would be able to tell as you'd see the lcd shutters flickering. [/quote] This is a very good point! When I've tested 3D Vision glasses on my projector they started shuttering (everything got darker) although the sync with the projector image was not ok. But the glasses were flickering. Would be interesting to know if this also happened for you Dazzle?
    rustyk21 said:
    When you say it doesn't work, does the emitter light up? The green Nvidia logo should go bright. Do the 3d vision glasses activate? You would be able to tell as you'd see the lcd shutters flickering.


    This is a very good point! When I've tested 3D Vision glasses on my projector they started shuttering (everything got darker) although the sync with the projector image was not ok. But the glasses were flickering. Would be interesting to know if this also happened for you Dazzle?

    ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 | Core I7-7700K | 16GB RAM | Win10 Pro x64
    Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 3D Vision Monitor
    Optoma UHD 40 3D Vision Projector
    Paypal donations for 3D Fix Manager: duselpaul86@gmx.de

    Posted 11/14/2018 03:41 PM   
    [quote="rustyk21"][quote="Dazzle233"] [.][color="orange"]If I understand correctly...[/color] '3DTV Play' is frame-packed 3D only and limited to 720p60 or 1080p24 '3D Vision' enabled via hardware dongle is capable of producing 1920x1080x120 in stereo 3D (60 per eye), but only operates in frame sequential 3D mode When combining 3D Vision's frame sequential output of 1920x1080x120 and DSR, it sounds like that's where you can get the greatest potential for image quality. Unfortunately, with the available projectors, that seems to be at the expense of additional 3D modes for broader compatibility[/.] [/quote] This is correct, although there are different modes (i.e. Checkerboard) buried within 3dtv play. I think. I get confused now in my old age, lol. Fundamentally though, 3dtv play is framepacked HDMI and limited in resolution/frequency compared to 3d vision mode, which is FS. Interlaced output is actually possible as well, but probably only applicable to passive 3d displays. Silly question, but have you tried 4k@60Hz output to the projector? Just wondering if the HDMI cable is up to speed. Also, I'm curious about exactly how you're testing 3d vision mode. Are you completing the Nvidia 3d setup wizard? When you say it doesn't work, does the emitter light up? The green Nvidia logo should go bright. Do the 3d vision glasses activate? You would be able to tell as you'd see the lcd shutters flickering. The reason this is important is because the drivers can be finicky as well. But, with a generic CRT display you should be able to complete the 3d wizard setup and show the test pattern. I had issues with this when I tried my spare PC on an OLED screen. It seemed really fussy and I had to do a number of reboots and a clean driver install to make sure 3d vision (emitter and glasses) activated properly. It may well be that attempts are doomed to failure, but I wouldn't discount a software problem.[/quote] [list] [.]4K@60Hz 2D works just fine. There were some issues with the color spaces and Windows, but I was able to get 4K@60 running fine in some games (3840x2160 and 4096@2160)[/.] [.]1080p@120Hz 2D also works.[/.] [.]Here's the cable: [url]https://www.amazon.com/d/HDMI-Cables/Mediabridge-Cable-Supports-Speed-Hand-Tested/B0031TRZX2/ref=sr_1_5?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1542211577&sr=1-5&keywords=2.0+hdmi+cable&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin%3A7800973011[/url][/.] [/list] I couldn't complete the wizard when I had the 3D Vision dongle plugged in. I read on the AVSForum that you had to put the projector into 3D mode manually, but that didn't work, seemingly due to an inherent conflict with the nVidia emitter as described before. The emitter lights up and works when 3D games and the 3D setup wizard are engaged. What doesn't work is the 3D Vision glasses or the projector's 3D modes while the nVidia emitter is plugged in and lit up. The 3D Vision glasses light up green when powered on (small light on the left side of the glasses), but nothing happens on screen. I'm not sure if placement is key with them, but I essentially put them on a ladder near my projection screen and stood in front of it from a few feet away facing the screen while there was 3D content (doubled-vision in 2D) present on the screen. I see no relevant activity from the nVidia glasses. Certainly driver stuff could be at play. I haven't run DDU in ages.
    rustyk21 said:
    Dazzle233 said:

  • If I understand correctly...


    '3DTV Play' is frame-packed 3D only and limited to 720p60 or 1080p24

    '3D Vision' enabled via hardware dongle is capable of producing 1920x1080x120 in stereo 3D (60 per eye), but only operates in frame sequential 3D mode

    When combining 3D Vision's frame sequential output of 1920x1080x120 and DSR, it sounds like that's where you can get the greatest potential for image quality. Unfortunately, with the available projectors, that seems to be at the expense of additional 3D modes for broader compatibility



  • This is correct, although there are different modes (i.e. Checkerboard) buried within 3dtv play. I think. I get confused now in my old age, lol. Fundamentally though, 3dtv play is framepacked HDMI and limited in resolution/frequency compared to 3d vision mode, which is FS.
    Interlaced output is actually possible as well, but probably only applicable to passive 3d displays.

    Silly question, but have you tried 4k@60Hz output to the projector? Just wondering if the HDMI cable is up to speed.

    Also, I'm curious about exactly how you're testing 3d vision mode. Are you completing the Nvidia 3d setup wizard?
    When you say it doesn't work, does the emitter light up? The green Nvidia logo should go bright. Do the 3d vision glasses activate? You would be able to tell as you'd see the lcd shutters flickering.

    The reason this is important is because the drivers can be finicky as well. But, with a generic CRT display you should be able to complete the 3d wizard setup and show the test pattern.
    I had issues with this when I tried my spare PC on an OLED screen. It seemed really fussy and I had to do a number of reboots and a clean driver install to make sure 3d vision (emitter and glasses) activated properly.

    It may well be that attempts are doomed to failure, but I wouldn't discount a software problem.





    I couldn't complete the wizard when I had the 3D Vision dongle plugged in. I read on the AVSForum that you had to put the projector into 3D mode manually, but that didn't work, seemingly due to an inherent conflict with the nVidia emitter as described before.

    The emitter lights up and works when 3D games and the 3D setup wizard are engaged. What doesn't work is the 3D Vision glasses or the projector's 3D modes while the nVidia emitter is plugged in and lit up. The 3D Vision glasses light up green when powered on (small light on the left side of the glasses), but nothing happens on screen. I'm not sure if placement is key with them, but I essentially put them on a ladder near my projection screen and stood in front of it from a few feet away facing the screen while there was 3D content (doubled-vision in 2D) present on the screen. I see no relevant activity from the nVidia glasses.

    Certainly driver stuff could be at play. I haven't run DDU in ages.

    3DTV Play / TriDef 3D
    EVGA GTX 1070 (x2 SLI)
    Win 10 Pro
    i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz
    8GB RAM
    Optoma UHD51A

    Posted 11/14/2018 04:17 PM   
      13 / 18    
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