Any ideas how Sony plans to push 3D gaming and bluray using ps3?
A simple search on google will show many articles about Sony at CES 2010 and their new 3D LED televisions. Furthermore, they have announced that 3D blurays and 3D gaming will be possible using Playstation 3.
Sample articles here - [url="http://www.dvdtown.com/news/panasonic-and-sony-to-market-3d-tvs/7292"]http://www.dvdtown.com/news/panasonic-and-...ket-3d-tvs/7292[/url]
[url="http://www.i4u.com/article29809.html"]http://www.i4u.com/article29809.html[/url]
Looking at these articles we know that:
1. The 3D tv models incorporate a frame sequential display and active-shutter glasses (nothing new there)
2. "All PlayStation®3 units will become available to play 3D stereoscopic games through a firmware update, scheduled to be available in summer of 2010"
3. "Playback of 3D content on "Blu-ray" discs will also be possible by upgrading PlayStation®3 with a further firmware update."
Does anyone know how they plan to achieve this?
Seems a little implausable to me because Playstation 3 can not do 1 stream of 120 hz. It has HDMI 1.3 and you need HDMI 1.4.
Therefore the only option left is for PS3 to have 2 streams of 60 hz to the TV at the same time. However I have a hard time believing that PS3 can process 2 streams of 60 Hz video at 1080p.
As far as gaming is concerned, again, PS3 can barely do decent frame rate at 1080p/60 hz using 1 stream. How will they manage processing 2 video streams necessary for 3D?
Any thoughts or ideas how they plan to achieve this?
A simple search on google will show many articles about Sony at CES 2010 and their new 3D LED televisions. Furthermore, they have announced that 3D blurays and 3D gaming will be possible using Playstation 3.
1. The 3D tv models incorporate a frame sequential display and active-shutter glasses (nothing new there)
2. "All PlayStation®3 units will become available to play 3D stereoscopic games through a firmware update, scheduled to be available in summer of 2010"
3. "Playback of 3D content on "Blu-ray" discs will also be possible by upgrading PlayStation®3 with a further firmware update."
Does anyone know how they plan to achieve this?
Seems a little implausable to me because Playstation 3 can not do 1 stream of 120 hz. It has HDMI 1.3 and you need HDMI 1.4.
Therefore the only option left is for PS3 to have 2 streams of 60 hz to the TV at the same time. However I have a hard time believing that PS3 can process 2 streams of 60 Hz video at 1080p.
As far as gaming is concerned, again, PS3 can barely do decent frame rate at 1080p/60 hz using 1 stream. How will they manage processing 2 video streams necessary for 3D?
Any thoughts or ideas how they plan to achieve this?
the only hardcoded thing about hdmi is the dvi transport layer to transport pixels
now, instead of transporting pixels during the blanking intervals, you can transport other things, like hdmi audio and the like
thus, a firmware upgrade to the ps3 can make it transport whatever it wants.
and hdmi 1.3 has enough bandwidth for 720p 120hz.
the cell processor in the ps3 is VERY powerfull for things like decoding h264 video, so i know it can handle blu ray 3d with EASE.
as for games, we will see what the 7800gtx in it can do.
Now im just purely speculating but, Have sony said whether or not you can 3d game on any 3d tv or just their 3d tv's? Which makes me think that there would be some kind of processing going on inside the tv or maybe the ps3 could push a single signal at 1080p @ 120hz (for blu-ray) and the tv does the rest a bit like the nvidia driver only inside the tv? one thing i know for sure is that pretty much all ps3 games only run at 600p anyway except GT5 (recent demo) is rendered at 1280x1080 (or something very similar) and then uses the RSX's horizontal scaller to fill the full 1080p (1920x1080). Also Uncharted 2 was proper 720p (WOW lol, but it does look splendid).
The fact is 3D on the ps3 will be like dropping your res to 720p and turning AA off and whilst the consolers will love it and the world will take note! it will still be light years behind the kind of tech we'll be enjoying this year to come. We wont miss out on anything.
Now im just purely speculating but, Have sony said whether or not you can 3d game on any 3d tv or just their 3d tv's? Which makes me think that there would be some kind of processing going on inside the tv or maybe the ps3 could push a single signal at 1080p @ 120hz (for blu-ray) and the tv does the rest a bit like the nvidia driver only inside the tv? one thing i know for sure is that pretty much all ps3 games only run at 600p anyway except GT5 (recent demo) is rendered at 1280x1080 (or something very similar) and then uses the RSX's horizontal scaller to fill the full 1080p (1920x1080). Also Uncharted 2 was proper 720p (WOW lol, but it does look splendid).
The fact is 3D on the ps3 will be like dropping your res to 720p and turning AA off and whilst the consolers will love it and the world will take note! it will still be light years behind the kind of tech we'll be enjoying this year to come. We wont miss out on anything.
^
Yeah, Sony themselves have said nothing about how PS3 will push 3D. Their secrecy makes em think that indeed some second rate trickery is involved.
I agree that 3D gamig on consoles won't be at the level of what we are used to on PC...but it will be sweet that PS3 will at least play 3D blurays for sure and I don't have to buy another bluray player to watch them.
But I am slightly worried that this 3D bluray thing won't work with my 67 inch Samsung DLP. I am not sure ho the checkerboard 3D tech will fit in to all of this...
Yeah, Sony themselves have said nothing about how PS3 will push 3D. Their secrecy makes em think that indeed some second rate trickery is involved.
I agree that 3D gamig on consoles won't be at the level of what we are used to on PC...but it will be sweet that PS3 will at least play 3D blurays for sure and I don't have to buy another bluray player to watch them.
But I am slightly worried that this 3D bluray thing won't work with my 67 inch Samsung DLP. I am not sure ho the checkerboard 3D tech will fit in to all of this...
Wouldn't surprise me that enabling 3D mode on the PS3 will force the game to lower detail level and/or resolution some to make up for the performance hit. It will be interesting to see how it will work though.
Wouldn't surprise me that enabling 3D mode on the PS3 will force the game to lower detail level and/or resolution some to make up for the performance hit. It will be interesting to see how it will work though.
I can see games working better that were designed for 3D, but I don't think we'll see an option to make [i]any[/i] previously released game 3D. I'm sure Sony will release patches for older games it chooses or that can handle the 3D properly. Hefty updates would be needed by developers to make their engine handle 3D without significant performance issues. So I doubt we see 3D across the board for all games.
I can see games working better that were designed for 3D, but I don't think we'll see an option to make any previously released game 3D. I'm sure Sony will release patches for older games it chooses or that can handle the 3D properly. Hefty updates would be needed by developers to make their engine handle 3D without significant performance issues. So I doubt we see 3D across the board for all games.
3D on the PS3 requires the game developper to modify the game to integrate a stereo rendering engine. Sony cannot convert previous games like nvidia and other PC drivers do. Native support from the game is mandatory.
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)
3D on the PS3 requires the game developper to modify the game to integrate a stereo rendering engine. Sony cannot convert previous games like nvidia and other PC drivers do. Native support from the game is mandatory.
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
I bow down before you cause that was extremely well written, that is exactly what ive been wanting somebody from SONY to come out and say during CES. My guess is the spokes people who keep answering the questions don't know or understand this information.
I bow down before you cause that was extremely well written, that is exactly what ive been wanting somebody from SONY to come out and say during CES. My guess is the spokes people who keep answering the questions don't know or understand this information.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='978990' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:43 PM']3D on the PS3 requires the game developper to modify the game to integrate a stereo rendering engine. Sony cannot convert previous games like nvidia and other PC drivers do. Native support from the game is mandatory.
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)[/quote]
Thanks for the reply.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' post='978990' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:43 PM']3D on the PS3 requires the game developper to modify the game to integrate a stereo rendering engine. Sony cannot convert previous games like nvidia and other PC drivers do. Native support from the game is mandatory.
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)
Thanks for the reply.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.
[quote name='disolitude' post='979133' date='Jan 11 2010, 04:34 AM']Thanks for the reply.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.[/quote]
I'm not an insider, just a well informed user, but thanks for the compliment.
I thought GForce only had anaglyph red/blue mode (like Skate 2), are you sure it also features a checkerboard mode ?
Sony has not announced if the firmware would also support legacy 3D displays with the checkerboard format or line interleave format, it may only support the hdmi1.4 frame packing.
At CES, Mitsubishi announced they would provide converter boxes to transform the hdmi 1.4 signal into the legacy checkerboard format so that people who bought DLP TVs will still be able to enjoy 3D BluRays, We do not know the details yet about these converters (will they work with any DLP or only Mitsubishi's ?), but they are still reassuring for backward compatibility.
[quote name='disolitude' post='979133' date='Jan 11 2010, 04:34 AM']Thanks for the reply.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.
I'm not an insider, just a well informed user, but thanks for the compliment.
I thought GForce only had anaglyph red/blue mode (like Skate 2), are you sure it also features a checkerboard mode ?
Sony has not announced if the firmware would also support legacy 3D displays with the checkerboard format or line interleave format, it may only support the hdmi1.4 frame packing.
At CES, Mitsubishi announced they would provide converter boxes to transform the hdmi 1.4 signal into the legacy checkerboard format so that people who bought DLP TVs will still be able to enjoy 3D BluRays, We do not know the details yet about these converters (will they work with any DLP or only Mitsubishi's ?), but they are still reassuring for backward compatibility.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
You are right about Gforce. My bad...it is anaglyph based, or atleast Wikipedia says so. I can't be bothered to try that game lol.
Otherwise, I heard about the Mitsubishi plans for the adapter that converts regular Bluray players to checkerbard signal. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFJ8jDak74"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFJ8jDak74[/url]
I don't see how this will be exclusive to Mitsubishi as all Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP TVs have the exact same inputs on the back and exact same technology.
He does say specifically about the adapter which is used for 3D blurays which are "to be played via standard bluray player"...which makes me wonder if this will be necessary for 3D bluray players like PS3 or jsut standard blurays that people have bought already
You are right about Gforce. My bad...it is anaglyph based, or atleast Wikipedia says so. I can't be bothered to try that game lol.
Otherwise, I heard about the Mitsubishi plans for the adapter that converts regular Bluray players to checkerbard signal. " rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">
I don't see how this will be exclusive to Mitsubishi as all Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP TVs have the exact same inputs on the back and exact same technology.
He does say specifically about the adapter which is used for 3D blurays which are "to be played via standard bluray player"...which makes me wonder if this will be necessary for 3D bluray players like PS3 or jsut standard blurays that people have bought already
720p @ 120hz.
[i]"we had to optimise a lot, as we now had 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms to render a frame. Luckily we had 50 per cent of the SPU power left, so we tapped into that. The current version of the game heavily pre-processes the data that goes to RSX to make sure it can chew through it as quickly as possible."[/i]
"we had to optimise a lot, as we now had 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms to render a frame. Luckily we had 50 per cent of the SPU power left, so we tapped into that. The current version of the game heavily pre-processes the data that goes to RSX to make sure it can chew through it as quickly as possible."
Sample articles here - [url="http://www.dvdtown.com/news/panasonic-and-sony-to-market-3d-tvs/7292"]http://www.dvdtown.com/news/panasonic-and-...ket-3d-tvs/7292[/url]
[url="http://www.i4u.com/article29809.html"]http://www.i4u.com/article29809.html[/url]
Looking at these articles we know that:
1. The 3D tv models incorporate a frame sequential display and active-shutter glasses (nothing new there)
2. "All PlayStation®3 units will become available to play 3D stereoscopic games through a firmware update, scheduled to be available in summer of 2010"
3. "Playback of 3D content on "Blu-ray" discs will also be possible by upgrading PlayStation®3 with a further firmware update."
Does anyone know how they plan to achieve this?
Seems a little implausable to me because Playstation 3 can not do 1 stream of 120 hz. It has HDMI 1.3 and you need HDMI 1.4.
Therefore the only option left is for PS3 to have 2 streams of 60 hz to the TV at the same time. However I have a hard time believing that PS3 can process 2 streams of 60 Hz video at 1080p.
As far as gaming is concerned, again, PS3 can barely do decent frame rate at 1080p/60 hz using 1 stream. How will they manage processing 2 video streams necessary for 3D?
Any thoughts or ideas how they plan to achieve this?
Sample articles here - http://www.dvdtown.com/news/panasonic-and-...ket-3d-tvs/7292
http://www.i4u.com/article29809.html
Looking at these articles we know that:
1. The 3D tv models incorporate a frame sequential display and active-shutter glasses (nothing new there)
2. "All PlayStation®3 units will become available to play 3D stereoscopic games through a firmware update, scheduled to be available in summer of 2010"
3. "Playback of 3D content on "Blu-ray" discs will also be possible by upgrading PlayStation®3 with a further firmware update."
Does anyone know how they plan to achieve this?
Seems a little implausable to me because Playstation 3 can not do 1 stream of 120 hz. It has HDMI 1.3 and you need HDMI 1.4.
Therefore the only option left is for PS3 to have 2 streams of 60 hz to the TV at the same time. However I have a hard time believing that PS3 can process 2 streams of 60 Hz video at 1080p.
As far as gaming is concerned, again, PS3 can barely do decent frame rate at 1080p/60 hz using 1 stream. How will they manage processing 2 video streams necessary for 3D?
Any thoughts or ideas how they plan to achieve this?
now, instead of transporting pixels during the blanking intervals, you can transport other things, like hdmi audio and the like
thus, a firmware upgrade to the ps3 can make it transport whatever it wants.
and hdmi 1.3 has enough bandwidth for 720p 120hz.
the cell processor in the ps3 is VERY powerfull for things like decoding h264 video, so i know it can handle blu ray 3d with EASE.
as for games, we will see what the 7800gtx in it can do.
now, instead of transporting pixels during the blanking intervals, you can transport other things, like hdmi audio and the like
thus, a firmware upgrade to the ps3 can make it transport whatever it wants.
and hdmi 1.3 has enough bandwidth for 720p 120hz.
the cell processor in the ps3 is VERY powerfull for things like decoding h264 video, so i know it can handle blu ray 3d with EASE.
as for games, we will see what the 7800gtx in it can do.
The fact is 3D on the ps3 will be like dropping your res to 720p and turning AA off and whilst the consolers will love it and the world will take note! it will still be light years behind the kind of tech we'll be enjoying this year to come. We wont miss out on anything.
The fact is 3D on the ps3 will be like dropping your res to 720p and turning AA off and whilst the consolers will love it and the world will take note! it will still be light years behind the kind of tech we'll be enjoying this year to come. We wont miss out on anything.
Yeah, Sony themselves have said nothing about how PS3 will push 3D. Their secrecy makes em think that indeed some second rate trickery is involved.
I agree that 3D gamig on consoles won't be at the level of what we are used to on PC...but it will be sweet that PS3 will at least play 3D blurays for sure and I don't have to buy another bluray player to watch them.
But I am slightly worried that this 3D bluray thing won't work with my 67 inch Samsung DLP. I am not sure ho the checkerboard 3D tech will fit in to all of this...
Yeah, Sony themselves have said nothing about how PS3 will push 3D. Their secrecy makes em think that indeed some second rate trickery is involved.
I agree that 3D gamig on consoles won't be at the level of what we are used to on PC...but it will be sweet that PS3 will at least play 3D blurays for sure and I don't have to buy another bluray player to watch them.
But I am slightly worried that this 3D bluray thing won't work with my 67 inch Samsung DLP. I am not sure ho the checkerboard 3D tech will fit in to all of this...
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)[/quote]
Thanks for the reply.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.
So far 2 games are already compatible (Invincible Tiger and Avatar), and sony announced that Superstardust HD (PS network title) will have a 3D update.
Over the past year, Sony showed many game tech demoes in 3D of high profile sony games like GT5 (prologue), Wipeout HD and Motorstorm, but everytime asked whether these games will get the 3D update, Sony systematically refused to make any announcement. So these games must be considered as Tech demoes only until properly confirmed. (it's a shame because all i'm waiting to buy a PS3 is Wipeout in 3D)
3D on the PS3 is currently achieved by transmitting the image using the Texas Instrument DLP3D checkerboard pattern or an interlaced image for interlaced display.
The technique is identical to what nvidia 3D vision currently does for 3D ready DLP rear-projection TVs and Zalman monitors.
The game renders the left and right views at native display resolution, a scaling system can be integrated if necessary but it must be processed by the game (nvidia 3D vision does not scale either), you end up with the left and right eye images at the display resolution (1080p for the 3Dready rear-projection DLPTVs) the DLP3D checkerboard is then applied to fit the left and right image into one single frame. The checkerboard is essentially a clever way of interlacing, it does halves the resolution but hides it better than line interleave.
The display recieves the image and displays it without treatment. The DLP chip inside the TV takes care of displaying the Left and Right pixels alternately and sends the sync signal for shutter glasses through a Vesa 3D-sync plug at the rear of the TV.
The new system that will be used with the new hdmi 1.4 TVs is different and allows more flexibility.
The game still needs a native rendering engine but it can render at any resolution it wants and does need to apply the DLP3D checkerboard, the game hands over the images to the new API provided though Sony's firmware upgrade. The console firmware then takes the left and right images and transforms them to the hdmi1.4 format called "frame packing" which transmits full resolution images at stereo720p 50HZ/60Hz (for games) or stereo1080p 24Hz (for movies).
The display recieves these images and applies whatever transformation it wants (upscale, interpolate frames, whatever) and displays the frames through whatever 3D technique it wants (it can be shutter glasses with DLP3D checkerboard pattern, shutter glasses with full resolution images, passive polarized setup or whatever other technique can be invented).
The Framepacking format is part of the hdmi 1.4 spec, but some updated hdmi 1.3 chips and plugs can also transmit them, which is why most of the 3DTVs shown at CES are 3D capable with the hdmi1.4 spec but still use hdmi 1.3 plugs (the hdmi 1.4 plug is larger to add a return audio channel and an ethernet network link though the hdmi cable). One of the features of the PS3 firmware update is to do this update. Not all hdmi 1.3 devices can do this update though.
For high refresh 3D displays based on shutter technology, no announcement has been made regarding compatibility. Any display manufacturer can decide whether to embed a sync emitter inside the display, add a VESA 3D-sync plug, use IR transmission or other RF/Wifi/Bluetooth/other link. So each display manufacturer can choose whether to support any compatible glasses or to restrict 3D support to their own brands of glasses.
Support the nvidia Geforce 3D vision glasses is even more complicated as it requires both :
-a VESA 3D sync plug (for the cable included in north amearican 3D vision boxes, the cable is not included in european 3D vision boxes)
and
-a usb connection running special nvidia proprietary communication in order to activate the glasses shutter in the first place
In other words, it is likely that the nvidia 3D vision glasses will never ever work with these TVs on the PS3 (unless you also have a nvidia 3D capable PC nearby)
Thanks for the reply.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.[/quote]
I'm not an insider, just a well informed user, but thanks for the compliment.
I thought GForce only had anaglyph red/blue mode (like Skate 2), are you sure it also features a checkerboard mode ?
Sony has not announced if the firmware would also support legacy 3D displays with the checkerboard format or line interleave format, it may only support the hdmi1.4 frame packing.
At CES, Mitsubishi announced they would provide converter boxes to transform the hdmi 1.4 signal into the legacy checkerboard format so that people who bought DLP TVs will still be able to enjoy 3D BluRays, We do not know the details yet about these converters (will they work with any DLP or only Mitsubishi's ?), but they are still reassuring for backward compatibility.
This is one of those things that only an insider would know... ;)
Oh btw, there is a 3rd game that is in checkerboard 3D on both xbox 360 and PS3 called GForce.
So basically you are saying that if you have a DLP checkerboard TV right now, and a PS3...there is a possibility that you are not going to be screwed as these PS3 driver updates will support it, as well as most other 3D display rendering options.
I'm not an insider, just a well informed user, but thanks for the compliment.
I thought GForce only had anaglyph red/blue mode (like Skate 2), are you sure it also features a checkerboard mode ?
Sony has not announced if the firmware would also support legacy 3D displays with the checkerboard format or line interleave format, it may only support the hdmi1.4 frame packing.
At CES, Mitsubishi announced they would provide converter boxes to transform the hdmi 1.4 signal into the legacy checkerboard format so that people who bought DLP TVs will still be able to enjoy 3D BluRays, We do not know the details yet about these converters (will they work with any DLP or only Mitsubishi's ?), but they are still reassuring for backward compatibility.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
You are right about Gforce. My bad...it is anaglyph based, or atleast Wikipedia says so. I can't be bothered to try that game lol.
Otherwise, I heard about the Mitsubishi plans for the adapter that converts regular Bluray players to checkerbard signal. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFJ8jDak74"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFJ8jDak74[/url]
I don't see how this will be exclusive to Mitsubishi as all Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP TVs have the exact same inputs on the back and exact same technology.
He does say specifically about the adapter which is used for 3D blurays which are "to be played via standard bluray player"...which makes me wonder if this will be necessary for 3D bluray players like PS3 or jsut standard blurays that people have bought already
You are right about Gforce. My bad...it is anaglyph based, or atleast Wikipedia says so. I can't be bothered to try that game lol.
Otherwise, I heard about the Mitsubishi plans for the adapter that converts regular Bluray players to checkerbard signal. " rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">
I don't see how this will be exclusive to Mitsubishi as all Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP TVs have the exact same inputs on the back and exact same technology.
He does say specifically about the adapter which is used for 3D blurays which are "to be played via standard bluray player"...which makes me wonder if this will be necessary for 3D bluray players like PS3 or jsut standard blurays that people have bought already
[url="http://bit.ly/7axg7k"]http://bit.ly/7axg7k[/url]
720p @ 120hz.
[i]"we had to optimise a lot, as we now had 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms to render a frame. Luckily we had 50 per cent of the SPU power left, so we tapped into that. The current version of the game heavily pre-processes the data that goes to RSX to make sure it can chew through it as quickly as possible."[/i]
http://bit.ly/7axg7k
720p @ 120hz.
"we had to optimise a lot, as we now had 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms to render a frame. Luckily we had 50 per cent of the SPU power left, so we tapped into that. The current version of the game heavily pre-processes the data that goes to RSX to make sure it can chew through it as quickly as possible."