NVIDIA, this is outrageous! NVIDIA 3DTV PLAY
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$40 to be able to connect a 3DTV using HDMI???

So, you smart asses, disabled that feature and now are asking for $40 to re-enable it.

Until NOW I thought NVIDIA was a very respectable company.

Now, do the right thing: include that feature in the drivers (it's already there, just enable it!) and let's call this off.

Everything will be as this never happened.

Otherwise I think some bad PR is coming your way very soon.

Edit:
What I mean is: I already have a 3dtv and glasses, and a powerful pc with 2 GTX 580 cards, I should need nothing elase to watch 3d content from my pc to my 3dtv.
$40 to be able to connect a 3DTV using HDMI???



So, you smart asses, disabled that feature and now are asking for $40 to re-enable it.



Until NOW I thought NVIDIA was a very respectable company.



Now, do the right thing: include that feature in the drivers (it's already there, just enable it!) and let's call this off.



Everything will be as this never happened.



Otherwise I think some bad PR is coming your way very soon.



Edit:

What I mean is: I already have a 3dtv and glasses, and a powerful pc with 2 GTX 580 cards, I should need nothing elase to watch 3d content from my pc to my 3dtv.
Nvidia is here to make $$$ not to please people lol sad but true, same as every business on the planet :(
Nvidia is here to make $$$ not to please people lol sad but true, same as every business on the planet :(

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#2
Posted 10/30/2011 05:07 PM   
Yup, pretty stupid eh? Here you have cards with HDMI 1.4(a) ports and Nvidia won't enable them for 3D without a $40 key or Vision kit.

What will REALLY get you steamed then is if you talk yourself into purchasing the "3d play" key and it STILL won't work because your
TV manufacturer did not give you a disk with a .INF file on it so Nvidia's drivers know that you have a 3D capable display attached or
(not sure who to blame here) your manufacturer did not include EDID functionality (or have the proper encoding) or Nvidia does not have
EDID reading functionality in their hardware/drives so in the end you 3D TV and glasses still don't work?

Been there, done that - got the teeshirt.

After purchasing your '3d play' key, google 'nvidia unsupported monitor edid override' and enjoy 3D on a BIG screen like "it was ment to be seen".

LOL
Yup, pretty stupid eh? Here you have cards with HDMI 1.4(a) ports and Nvidia won't enable them for 3D without a $40 key or Vision kit.



What will REALLY get you steamed then is if you talk yourself into purchasing the "3d play" key and it STILL won't work because your

TV manufacturer did not give you a disk with a .INF file on it so Nvidia's drivers know that you have a 3D capable display attached or

(not sure who to blame here) your manufacturer did not include EDID functionality (or have the proper encoding) or Nvidia does not have

EDID reading functionality in their hardware/drives so in the end you 3D TV and glasses still don't work?



Been there, done that - got the teeshirt.



After purchasing your '3d play' key, google 'nvidia unsupported monitor edid override' and enjoy 3D on a BIG screen like "it was ment to be seen".



LOL

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#3
Posted 10/30/2011 05:38 PM   
There hasn't been any sneaky marketing. The fact that you need 3DTV Play software and how much it costs is sitting out there where everyone can see. The fact that all it needs is unlocking is irrelevant (the cost of delivering software is trivial, it's the cost of making the software and keeping it working that gets pricey). So either shut up and pay what you owe or shut up and do without.

What you are actually asking for isn't to get the software for free, you're asking to raise the price on all our video cards so you can get the software for free.

P.S. A 3D TV and TWO very high end video cards and you're complaining about $40?? The [b]tax[/b] you paid on your hardware dwarfs what you're paying for the software!
There hasn't been any sneaky marketing. The fact that you need 3DTV Play software and how much it costs is sitting out there where everyone can see. The fact that all it needs is unlocking is irrelevant (the cost of delivering software is trivial, it's the cost of making the software and keeping it working that gets pricey). So either shut up and pay what you owe or shut up and do without.



What you are actually asking for isn't to get the software for free, you're asking to raise the price on all our video cards so you can get the software for free.



P.S. A 3D TV and TWO very high end video cards and you're complaining about $40?? The tax you paid on your hardware dwarfs what you're paying for the software!

#4
Posted 10/30/2011 06:26 PM   
No problem dude, I'm not a newbie... and I can even just reset the trial.

What I'm saying is that this is really stupid.

Making money on hardware it's ok, but deliberately cripple it is a very bad practice.

To achieve that they also used an "Armadillo" protection scheme, which is:

1) flawed and can be circumvented.

2) heavy and invasive (makes a lot of checks for it's own security avoiding programs like debuggers to be run)

About the last one, let me tell you that if I want to run a debugger I can despite this stupid protection, but without knowledge, no debugger can be present in the system.

Now, I use debuggers and system monitor utilities for work and I find this unacceptable.

And I'm being kind here, since because of my work, it would be really easy for me to crack this program and release it anonymously.

I won't do that, I'm just trying to reason and to make them know this is REALLY a bad practice that will result in very bad PR once 3dtvs will be more adopted.
No problem dude, I'm not a newbie... and I can even just reset the trial.



What I'm saying is that this is really stupid.



Making money on hardware it's ok, but deliberately cripple it is a very bad practice.



To achieve that they also used an "Armadillo" protection scheme, which is:



1) flawed and can be circumvented.



2) heavy and invasive (makes a lot of checks for it's own security avoiding programs like debuggers to be run)



About the last one, let me tell you that if I want to run a debugger I can despite this stupid protection, but without knowledge, no debugger can be present in the system.



Now, I use debuggers and system monitor utilities for work and I find this unacceptable.



And I'm being kind here, since because of my work, it would be really easy for me to crack this program and release it anonymously.



I won't do that, I'm just trying to reason and to make them know this is REALLY a bad practice that will result in very bad PR once 3dtvs will be more adopted.
I think there has been some immoral marketing really. With 3DTV Play for example, it doesnt say that your limited to 720p. It should of course, wouldnt you tell your family members and friends that before they bought it? Were strangers to them, but is that the world we really want to live in, where its ok to screw people, just a little bit....where [b]everyone[/b], screws each other, a little bit? I honestly dont know how to feel about it since i rate 3d + 720p + 46" greater than 2d + 2560x1600 + 30". But inevitably, people, will go out there an pay for a setup that will do 1080p in 3D when they dont need all that power. They WORKED (in most cases, or their parents did) minute by minute for that money. Nobody should have it wasted. How rich are the Nvidia executives and higher ups? Would the upper, excessive part of their pay that they rake in offset the losses they would incur for being upfront and honest?
I think there has been some immoral marketing really. With 3DTV Play for example, it doesnt say that your limited to 720p. It should of course, wouldnt you tell your family members and friends that before they bought it? Were strangers to them, but is that the world we really want to live in, where its ok to screw people, just a little bit....where everyone, screws each other, a little bit? I honestly dont know how to feel about it since i rate 3d + 720p + 46" greater than 2d + 2560x1600 + 30". But inevitably, people, will go out there an pay for a setup that will do 1080p in 3D when they dont need all that power. They WORKED (in most cases, or their parents did) minute by minute for that money. Nobody should have it wasted. How rich are the Nvidia executives and higher ups? Would the upper, excessive part of their pay that they rake in offset the losses they would incur for being upfront and honest?

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#6
Posted 10/30/2011 07:14 PM   
It's a BUSINESS not a welfare. They do something to make money, not to make us happy.

And the limitation of 720p (or 24Hz with 1080p) is caused by the hardware, specifically the HDMI 1.4a specification. It's not nVidia's fault.
It's a BUSINESS not a welfare. They do something to make money, not to make us happy.



And the limitation of 720p (or 24Hz with 1080p) is caused by the hardware, specifically the HDMI 1.4a specification. It's not nVidia's fault.

#7
Posted 10/30/2011 07:36 PM   
Businesses make "their" money BY making you happy. And a bridge collapse might be caused by an earthquake, doesnt mean the DOT shouldnt put up a sign before you drive over it.
Businesses make "their" money BY making you happy. And a bridge collapse might be caused by an earthquake, doesnt mean the DOT shouldnt put up a sign before you drive over it.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#8
Posted 10/30/2011 08:04 PM   
Bluntly, I think this is a ridiculous post as well.

Guess what, there are probably real people at Nvidia who go to work to pay bills etc. the same as we all do. Why should they do it for nothing just because you think it should be free?

It's easy to get caught up with these ideas of corporate greed (which is just simply envy) but at the end of the day what right has anyone got to demand that the work of someone elses blood, sweat and tears (ok, exaggeration) is a god given right that should be theirs, for free?

Anyway, enjoy your 3d gaming and this is a great community but this whinge just struck a nerve!


Peace :-)
Bluntly, I think this is a ridiculous post as well.



Guess what, there are probably real people at Nvidia who go to work to pay bills etc. the same as we all do. Why should they do it for nothing just because you think it should be free?



It's easy to get caught up with these ideas of corporate greed (which is just simply envy) but at the end of the day what right has anyone got to demand that the work of someone elses blood, sweat and tears (ok, exaggeration) is a god given right that should be theirs, for free?



Anyway, enjoy your 3d gaming and this is a great community but this whinge just struck a nerve!





Peace :-)

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#9
Posted 10/30/2011 09:21 PM   
I've seen folks claim Nvidia demands royalty/licensing fees from CE manufacturers in order to add their devices (Displays, AVR's, FPJ's, ect...) EDID's to 3DTVPlay's whitelist. Not sure how accurate that is, but if true, they're monetizing 3DVision from every different angle. I'm inclined to believe it, because it doesn't seem like peddling a one-time $40 fee would offset the tremendous advantage/incentive that free (extensive) 3D support would be. That would be a great thing to lord over AMD/ATI, far more valuable than the $40 from a relatively niche subset of users.
I've seen folks claim Nvidia demands royalty/licensing fees from CE manufacturers in order to add their devices (Displays, AVR's, FPJ's, ect...) EDID's to 3DTVPlay's whitelist. Not sure how accurate that is, but if true, they're monetizing 3DVision from every different angle. I'm inclined to believe it, because it doesn't seem like peddling a one-time $40 fee would offset the tremendous advantage/incentive that free (extensive) 3D support would be. That would be a great thing to lord over AMD/ATI, far more valuable than the $40 from a relatively niche subset of users.

#10
Posted 10/30/2011 09:41 PM   
@rustyk: The bottom line is that the rich reach the highest most abundant part of the apple tree by standing on the heads of the poor and then simply choose to take a much, much, much larger share at the end of the day because they are in a position that allows them too do so without consequences.


[quote]It's easy to get caught up with these ideas of corporate greed (which is just simply envy) but at the end of the day what right has anyone got to demand that the work of someone elses blood, sweat and tears (ok, exaggeration) is a god given right that should be theirs, for free?[/quote]

Because, like you suggest, in many cases, there is no blood, sweat and tears. CEOs and exectutives simply research the needs of the consumers and simple choose to go in a direction. They are nothing more than researchers and do not deserve to create such income inequality.

Envy eh? Im guessing your out of touch with the plight of the lower income elements of our societies otherwise you wouldnt have reduced it to a bit of envy. And im sure people would love to go sailing on their own yacht. Lets call it human nature instead, or common sense, or fairness. There needs to be a balance, and something is out of balance when people starve to death (here in America) and when people's months are ruined when they get a $100 parking ticket.
@rustyk: The bottom line is that the rich reach the highest most abundant part of the apple tree by standing on the heads of the poor and then simply choose to take a much, much, much larger share at the end of the day because they are in a position that allows them too do so without consequences.





It's easy to get caught up with these ideas of corporate greed (which is just simply envy) but at the end of the day what right has anyone got to demand that the work of someone elses blood, sweat and tears (ok, exaggeration) is a god given right that should be theirs, for free?




Because, like you suggest, in many cases, there is no blood, sweat and tears. CEOs and exectutives simply research the needs of the consumers and simple choose to go in a direction. They are nothing more than researchers and do not deserve to create such income inequality.



Envy eh? Im guessing your out of touch with the plight of the lower income elements of our societies otherwise you wouldnt have reduced it to a bit of envy. And im sure people would love to go sailing on their own yacht. Lets call it human nature instead, or common sense, or fairness. There needs to be a balance, and something is out of balance when people starve to death (here in America) and when people's months are ruined when they get a $100 parking ticket.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#11
Posted 10/30/2011 10:06 PM   
Are there anyone who thinks that 3d is a good argument for selling? Nvidia could just cripple down the drivers even more and make you pay individually for sli-support, antialiasing, dx10-11 etc... Hmmm, maybe i just gave their marketing apartment some ideas...
Are there anyone who thinks that 3d is a good argument for selling? Nvidia could just cripple down the drivers even more and make you pay individually for sli-support, antialiasing, dx10-11 etc... Hmmm, maybe i just gave their marketing apartment some ideas...

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#12
Posted 10/30/2011 10:25 PM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='27 April 2011 - 08:04 AM' timestamp='1303923864' post='1231022']
Hi

Our support team saw this request and they have routed it internally. We will be working on adding it.
[/quote]


You can submit the EDID from your 3D display device to Nvidia and they will add it to 3DTV Play if it meets their requirements. http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2774

You can see that Mr. Andrew Fear has a link in his sig for this.

It really should be stickied and not just in his sig

@Zibri, did you post over at the iZ3D and TriDef forumns as well stating that you think all 3D middleware should be free? (disclaimer: the following statement is very subjective) Nvidia has done more for 3D gaming than any other company, working with developers to implement it as an "added" feature in games. They have been very proactive while AMD has sat on their a$$ doing little to nothing until recently, and even now they've thrown most of the needed work at 3rd parties. So do yourself a favor buy an AMD card, get the 50% off of their comparible 3DTV Play middleware and let your tears fall upon their forumns that they are charging you for no reason.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='27 April 2011 - 08:04 AM' timestamp='1303923864' post='1231022']

Hi



Our support team saw this request and they have routed it internally. We will be working on adding it.







You can submit the EDID from your 3D display device to Nvidia and they will add it to 3DTV Play if it meets their requirements. http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2774



You can see that Mr. Andrew Fear has a link in his sig for this.



It really should be stickied and not just in his sig



@Zibri, did you post over at the iZ3D and TriDef forumns as well stating that you think all 3D middleware should be free? (disclaimer: the following statement is very subjective) Nvidia has done more for 3D gaming than any other company, working with developers to implement it as an "added" feature in games. They have been very proactive while AMD has sat on their a$$ doing little to nothing until recently, and even now they've thrown most of the needed work at 3rd parties. So do yourself a favor buy an AMD card, get the 50% off of their comparible 3DTV Play middleware and let your tears fall upon their forumns that they are charging you for no reason.

#13
Posted 10/30/2011 11:54 PM   
[quote name='Likay' date='31 October 2011 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1320013503' post='1317603']
Are there anyone who thinks that 3d is a good argument for selling? Nvidia could just cripple down the drivers even more and make you pay individually for sli-support, antialiasing, dx10-11 etc... Hmmm, maybe i just gave their marketing apartment some ideas...
[/quote]

you already have to pay for SLI (by buying a second card). And you have to pay for AntiAliasing (by buying a card in the first place). Both features are a selling point for GeForce cards and therefor they make sense from an economical standpoint.

3D by itself is not a part of the GeForce products, it's an addon. You have to pay extra for it. The reason for that is very simple: Only very few people can actually use that (because they have the necessary hardware equipment, i.e. a 120Hz monitor or a HDMI 1.4a capable 3D TV set). So at this point it's not a good selling point for GeForce cards by itself (that might change though).

If nVidia would give 3D over HDMI for free, they would just hurt the sellings of their 3DVision kit, even though this is technically superior (but too many people just don't understand that).

If you have a large company with thousands of employees and stock owners in your back, tell me, what reason would you have to just give a technology away for free, in which you've invested a couple of millions dollars?
[quote name='Likay' date='31 October 2011 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1320013503' post='1317603']

Are there anyone who thinks that 3d is a good argument for selling? Nvidia could just cripple down the drivers even more and make you pay individually for sli-support, antialiasing, dx10-11 etc... Hmmm, maybe i just gave their marketing apartment some ideas...





you already have to pay for SLI (by buying a second card). And you have to pay for AntiAliasing (by buying a card in the first place). Both features are a selling point for GeForce cards and therefor they make sense from an economical standpoint.



3D by itself is not a part of the GeForce products, it's an addon. You have to pay extra for it. The reason for that is very simple: Only very few people can actually use that (because they have the necessary hardware equipment, i.e. a 120Hz monitor or a HDMI 1.4a capable 3D TV set). So at this point it's not a good selling point for GeForce cards by itself (that might change though).



If nVidia would give 3D over HDMI for free, they would just hurt the sellings of their 3DVision kit, even though this is technically superior (but too many people just don't understand that).



If you have a large company with thousands of employees and stock owners in your back, tell me, what reason would you have to just give a technology away for free, in which you've invested a couple of millions dollars?

#14
Posted 10/31/2011 05:43 AM   
Grestorn you are wrong, very very wrong, S3D by itself IS PART of the gforce products, your card CAN do S3D without 3dvision nor 3dtvplay.

Is the same situation like, if lets says tomorrow, they dedice to charge 40$ for the full new released drivers set for your grapich card, after all nvidia drivers are better than AMD ones so why no get some bucks from there too?

In my book all this is ok ( as a big company, just get all the bucks you can mantra ), S3D is just too niche market, so they wont lost anything in bad publicity, if they dont charge for new drivers nor AA,dx11, etc.. like Likay said before is just because none in the market does ( AMD nor nvidia ) and if the will the bad publicity will eat them alive and they will end up losing money on hardware sales.

Mark my words, once S3D leaves the niche market to become mainstream ( if it happens... ) then you will have all this stuff enabled in nvidia cards by default.
Grestorn you are wrong, very very wrong, S3D by itself IS PART of the gforce products, your card CAN do S3D without 3dvision nor 3dtvplay.



Is the same situation like, if lets says tomorrow, they dedice to charge 40$ for the full new released drivers set for your grapich card, after all nvidia drivers are better than AMD ones so why no get some bucks from there too?



In my book all this is ok ( as a big company, just get all the bucks you can mantra ), S3D is just too niche market, so they wont lost anything in bad publicity, if they dont charge for new drivers nor AA,dx11, etc.. like Likay said before is just because none in the market does ( AMD nor nvidia ) and if the will the bad publicity will eat them alive and they will end up losing money on hardware sales.



Mark my words, once S3D leaves the niche market to become mainstream ( if it happens... ) then you will have all this stuff enabled in nvidia cards by default.

#15
Posted 10/31/2011 10:52 AM   
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