3DTV Play in Side by Side mode Will Nvidia considering adding SbS?
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#76
Posted 01/16/2015 03:16 AM   
I thought that Tridef did not suppport SLI, has that changed? Also curious about the 3D. It looks pretty good within the constraints of Youtubin'. Is that running our fix or something else?
I thought that Tridef did not suppport SLI, has that changed?

Also curious about the 3D. It looks pretty good within the constraints of Youtubin'. Is that running our fix or something else?

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#77
Posted 01/16/2015 03:56 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]I thought that Tridef did not suppport SLI, has that changed? Also curious about the 3D. It looks pretty good within the constraints of Youtubin'. Is that running our fix or something else?[/quote] That is tridef power3d aka Fake3d in action. You can actually spot artifacts from that video too, mainly around character but video masks them nicely. Artifacts or rather haloing is more noticeable when you are actually playing on monitor with higher picture quality but it can look suprisingly good.
bo3b said:I thought that Tridef did not suppport SLI, has that changed?

Also curious about the 3D. It looks pretty good within the constraints of Youtubin'. Is that running our fix or something else?


That is tridef power3d aka Fake3d in action. You can actually spot artifacts from that video too, mainly around character but video masks them nicely. Artifacts or rather haloing is more noticeable when you are actually playing on monitor with higher picture quality but it can look suprisingly good.

#78
Posted 01/16/2015 05:49 AM   
Oh right, of course. The CM from NVidia is not too bad either, but there is no chance in hell I'm playing CM/Power3D/Fake3D when I've got a real fix. Swapping out a real fix at lower resolution for fake 3D just so you can play in higher resolution is a pretty dumb approach if you ask me.
Oh right, of course. The CM from NVidia is not too bad either, but there is no chance in hell I'm playing CM/Power3D/Fake3D when I've got a real fix. Swapping out a real fix at lower resolution for fake 3D just so you can play in higher resolution is a pretty dumb approach if you ask me.

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#79
Posted 01/16/2015 06:38 AM   
That wasn't in Power3D mode. Watch Dogs does not have an official TriDef profile though so it wasn't a flawless 3D implementation. But it wasn't in 'fake 3D' either. And I will take 1920x2160 (4,147,200 pixels) at 60 Hz in 3D over 1280x720 (921,600 pixels) any day. In case you haven't done the math, that's an even higher resolution than a PC monitor resolution of 2560x1600 (4,096,000 pixels) and 2560x1440 (3,686,400 pixels). So an active 3D Samsung 4K TV has the highest 3D resolution of *any* display on the market, monitor or television, but only with TriDef. The fact remains that 3DTV Play looks like pure, unfettered garbage on this 4K TV and TriDef looks way better because it can run at the maximum 3D resolution this 4K TV supports. I am not dropping my 4K TV's resolution to just 1/8 of its native resolution just to use 3DTV Play. SLI works on my machine.
That wasn't in Power3D mode. Watch Dogs does not have an official TriDef profile though so it wasn't a flawless 3D implementation. But it wasn't in 'fake 3D' either.

And I will take 1920x2160 (4,147,200 pixels) at 60 Hz in 3D over 1280x720 (921,600 pixels) any day. In case you haven't done the math, that's an even higher resolution than a PC monitor resolution of 2560x1600 (4,096,000 pixels) and 2560x1440 (3,686,400 pixels). So an active 3D Samsung 4K TV has the highest 3D resolution of *any* display on the market, monitor or television, but only with TriDef.

The fact remains that 3DTV Play looks like pure, unfettered garbage on this 4K TV and TriDef looks way better because it can run at the maximum 3D resolution this 4K TV supports. I am not dropping my 4K TV's resolution to just 1/8 of its native resolution just to use 3DTV Play.

SLI works on my machine.

#80
Posted 01/16/2015 01:50 PM   
I own a Samsung 55 UHD HU9000 TV yet Tridef may be better for higher resolution I find the Hdmi pixel mode (checkerboard) is OK with 3DTV play. Also I have a lot of problems with newer games with Tridef. Currently at UHD resolution in 3D (NVidia or Trident) SLI or Tri SLI would be a must.
I own a Samsung 55 UHD HU9000 TV yet Tridef may be better for higher resolution I find the Hdmi pixel mode (checkerboard) is OK with 3DTV play.

Also I have a lot of problems with newer games with Tridef.

Currently at UHD resolution in 3D (NVidia or Trident) SLI or Tri SLI would be a must.

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#81
Posted 01/16/2015 02:44 PM   
Watch Dogs PC Footage - 4K resolution + 3D + 60 FPS Using TriDef software! - Halo visible around Aidan (albiet a fairly small halo, but it is clearly distorting the scenery around him) - Rain is drawn on whatever scenery is behind the rain, instead of in the air where it is supposed to be - Bullet holes on boat's windscreen are drawn on the water or distant scenery instead of the glass - UI is projected on whatever is behind it - Depth is low (but this may be due to me viewing it on a 17" screen, which will naturally reduce separation if it was recorded on a larger screen). That's fake 3D, though it is pretty good as far as fake 3D goes and would definitely be quite playable. Watch Dogs PC Gameplay - Steam Pipe Explosion (4K + 3D) - Explosion is drawn at the depth of the scenery behind it - As the car drives through the steam the steam distorts into a car shaped halo That's fake 3D The Crew - PC Footage 1 - 4K resolution + 3D + 60 FPS Using TriDef software! - I can barely detect any 3D here at all, and what little I can detect may just be down to motion parallax. - Looks exactly the same with glasses off - Only differences between left + right eye appears to be due to video compression artefacts If this is 3D, the separation must be set at almost 0% The Crew - PC Footage 2 - 4K resolution + 3D + 60 FPS Using TriDef software! - As above, this is either 2D, or 3D with a very, very low separation Can you maybe upload a video of something with a true geometry 3D profile with a decent amount of depth? I'm only being negative in this post because the videos you uploaded haven't shown my anything special, so I'm not seeing anything here that I'm missing on 3D Vision. I agree that the lack of SBS support in 3D Vision is ... very silly. It's not something that affects me at present, but that's only because I don't own a 4K TV (yet), but I can see that this would be a serious issue for someone trying to use a SBS TV. At the moment TriDef is a non-starter for me, as from what I gather it won't work with my current system. I am however interested to learn more about it, and the technical details of how it works, and particularly how it differs from 3D vision.
Watch Dogs PC Footage - 4K resolution + 3D + 60 FPS Using TriDef software!
- Halo visible around Aidan (albiet a fairly small halo, but it is clearly distorting the scenery around him)
- Rain is drawn on whatever scenery is behind the rain, instead of in the air where it is supposed to be
- Bullet holes on boat's windscreen are drawn on the water or distant scenery instead of the glass
- UI is projected on whatever is behind it
- Depth is low (but this may be due to me viewing it on a 17" screen, which will naturally reduce separation if it was recorded on a larger screen).

That's fake 3D, though it is pretty good as far as fake 3D goes and would definitely be quite playable.


Watch Dogs PC Gameplay - Steam Pipe Explosion (4K + 3D)
- Explosion is drawn at the depth of the scenery behind it
- As the car drives through the steam the steam distorts into a car shaped halo

That's fake 3D


The Crew - PC Footage 1 - 4K resolution + 3D + 60 FPS Using TriDef software!
- I can barely detect any 3D here at all, and what little I can detect may just be down to motion parallax.
- Looks exactly the same with glasses off
- Only differences between left + right eye appears to be due to video compression artefacts

If this is 3D, the separation must be set at almost 0%


The Crew - PC Footage 2 - 4K resolution + 3D + 60 FPS Using TriDef software!
- As above, this is either 2D, or 3D with a very, very low separation



Can you maybe upload a video of something with a true geometry 3D profile with a decent amount of depth? I'm only being negative in this post because the videos you uploaded haven't shown my anything special, so I'm not seeing anything here that I'm missing on 3D Vision. I agree that the lack of SBS support in 3D Vision is ... very silly. It's not something that affects me at present, but that's only because I don't own a 4K TV (yet), but I can see that this would be a serious issue for someone trying to use a SBS TV.



At the moment TriDef is a non-starter for me, as from what I gather it won't work with my current system. I am however interested to learn more about it, and the technical details of how it works, and particularly how it differs from 3D vision.

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#82
Posted 01/16/2015 02:53 PM   
I prefer 3DTV Play over TriDef even at 1280x720 because of the quality of the 3D effect. Downsampling gives very impressive results in some supported games. TriDef is a last resort for me and from the results of performance and 3D quality, it is inferior to 3DTV Play. The whole thing with the 4K and ones personal setup is often just subjective. Since I moved to a projector from my plasma, the 3D experience is the best I've had thus far. The point is, it's the sum of all the parts (i.e. hardware, drivers, environment, sound, blah blah blah). Measuring how many pixels and splitting hairs does not change the actual experience. 3D in it's current state is limited and unfortunately appears to be in a state of terminal illness. There are a ton of complaints over on the Tridef forum about a lack of updates and whether there is a future for it. The only thing that is keeping 3D alive is the 3D modding enthusiasts. There is no doubt, that Side by Side mode should be a given with Nvidia's 3DTV Play but the state of 3D is not a high priority for the gaming industry. I am going to enjoy what I have now and the biggest saving grace here is the community support. The Helixmod and other PC mods with user customization is the best we've got. We all like to justify our purchases and the hardware we purchase will be technically superior as if it is fact.
I prefer 3DTV Play over TriDef even at 1280x720 because of the quality of the 3D effect. Downsampling gives very impressive results in some supported games. TriDef is a last resort for me and from the results of performance and 3D quality, it is inferior to 3DTV Play. The whole thing with the 4K and ones personal setup is often just subjective. Since I moved to a projector from my plasma, the 3D experience is the best I've had thus far. The point is, it's the sum of all the parts (i.e. hardware, drivers, environment, sound, blah blah blah). Measuring how many pixels and splitting hairs does not change the actual experience. 3D in it's current state is limited and unfortunately appears to be in a state of terminal illness. There are a ton of complaints over on the Tridef forum about a lack of updates and whether there is a future for it. The only thing that is keeping 3D alive is the 3D modding enthusiasts.

There is no doubt, that Side by Side mode should be a given with Nvidia's 3DTV Play but the state of 3D is not a high priority for the gaming industry. I am going to enjoy what I have now and the biggest saving grace here is the community support. The Helixmod and other PC mods with user customization is the best we've got. We all like to justify our purchases and the hardware we purchase will be technically superior as if it is fact.

#83
Posted 01/16/2015 04:03 PM   
double post
double post

#84
Posted 01/16/2015 04:05 PM   
I'm always willing to consider other possibilities, and am not wedded to any technology or company. I don't personalize my products, it's just junk/toys that I buy and doesn't reflect on me as a person, so it's not important to me to fight. But, I'm always interested in improving the experience if it's possible. Right now, 4K looks like a gimmick to me, and actually makes the experience dramatically worse. Vastly higher GPU requirements, cabling problems (sometimes), and total lack of support from NVidia for 3D here. That's a demonstrably worse experience than my 720p projector which runs at 120Hz and is fully supported. For people that haven't done the math, 720p@120Hz at 10 feet is better than 1080p@60Hz at 2 feet. Pixel-arc-seconds of visual acuity. 4K up close would be better than 1080p up close, but you can't get there right now because GPUs are too weak and the software is crippled. I'd be happy to try Tridef, but they refuse to work on NVidia hardware, and I don't have a SBS monitor or projector. The lack of SLI (assuming that's still true) is also a pretty big negative. I've skimmed the Tridef forums, and people don't seem all that happy there. So at present, I'm still waiting for an actual advancement.
I'm always willing to consider other possibilities, and am not wedded to any technology or company. I don't personalize my products, it's just junk/toys that I buy and doesn't reflect on me as a person, so it's not important to me to fight.

But, I'm always interested in improving the experience if it's possible. Right now, 4K looks like a gimmick to me, and actually makes the experience dramatically worse. Vastly higher GPU requirements, cabling problems (sometimes), and total lack of support from NVidia for 3D here. That's a demonstrably worse experience than my 720p projector which runs at 120Hz and is fully supported.

For people that haven't done the math, 720p@120Hz at 10 feet is better than 1080p@60Hz at 2 feet. Pixel-arc-seconds of visual acuity. 4K up close would be better than 1080p up close, but you can't get there right now because GPUs are too weak and the software is crippled.

I'd be happy to try Tridef, but they refuse to work on NVidia hardware, and I don't have a SBS monitor or projector. The lack of SLI (assuming that's still true) is also a pretty big negative. I've skimmed the Tridef forums, and people don't seem all that happy there.

So at present, I'm still waiting for an actual advancement.

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#85
Posted 01/19/2015 10:33 AM   
What are you talking about? TriDef works fine on Nvidia or AMD GPUs. You have to be blind to have a projector and consider 720p acceptable. I find 720p disgusting to look at on a 46" screen, and 1080p disgusting to look at on a 55" screen or higher. But a projector? Jesus Christ, that's a million times worse. I won't even go to the local theaters because they still have 2K projectors. I'd rather wait for the movie to come out on Blu-ray so I can watch it on my TV with a higher pixel density than the blurry garbage that's aired at the theater. This is the entire reason I skipped 3D gaming all these years until we finally got a 4K TV that could do 3D at at least 1080p resolution (and thanks to 4K SBS support in Samsung's 4K models we can actually do it at twice-1080p res!) I could not handle having to drop down the resolution on my 1080p 3D TV to play games in 3D at 720p resolution. I'd rather play them in 2D at 1080p resolution than in 3D at 720p resolution. Of course this is what sparked my hatred for the HDMI standard; 3D TVs have been needlessly crippled by this worthless input standard and made useless for 3D gaming because of the 720p/60 or 1080p/24 bandwidth limitations of HDMI 1.4, when if the television manufacturers weren't complete and utter twats and had put just a single DisplayPort on their televisions we could've been gaming at 1080p/60 in 3D all these years.
What are you talking about? TriDef works fine on Nvidia or AMD GPUs.

You have to be blind to have a projector and consider 720p acceptable. I find 720p disgusting to look at on a 46" screen, and 1080p disgusting to look at on a 55" screen or higher. But a projector? Jesus Christ, that's a million times worse. I won't even go to the local theaters because they still have 2K projectors. I'd rather wait for the movie to come out on Blu-ray so I can watch it on my TV with a higher pixel density than the blurry garbage that's aired at the theater.

This is the entire reason I skipped 3D gaming all these years until we finally got a 4K TV that could do 3D at at least 1080p resolution (and thanks to 4K SBS support in Samsung's 4K models we can actually do it at twice-1080p res!) I could not handle having to drop down the resolution on my 1080p 3D TV to play games in 3D at 720p resolution. I'd rather play them in 2D at 1080p resolution than in 3D at 720p resolution.

Of course this is what sparked my hatred for the HDMI standard; 3D TVs have been needlessly crippled by this worthless input standard and made useless for 3D gaming because of the 720p/60 or 1080p/24 bandwidth limitations of HDMI 1.4, when if the television manufacturers weren't complete and utter twats and had put just a single DisplayPort on their televisions we could've been gaming at 1080p/60 in 3D all these years.

#86
Posted 01/19/2015 05:28 PM   
Note to self: DFTT
Note to self: DFTT

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#87
Posted 01/19/2015 10:30 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]Note to self: DFTT[/quote] Exactly what I was thinkin......
bo3b said:Note to self: DFTT


Exactly what I was thinkin......

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#88
Posted 01/20/2015 04:17 AM   
[quote="Xizer"]That wasn't in Power3D mode. Watch Dogs does not have an official TriDef profile though so it wasn't a flawless 3D implementation. But it wasn't in 'fake 3D' either.[/quote] I use both Tridef and 3D Vision on 1080p passive displays; the Watch Dogs gameplay is 100% being rendered in Power 3D. You can clearly see telltale GUI distortions and character halos. Bo3b could have stated it a little clearer but when he's referring to Tridef not working on nVidia hardware he's means S3D SLI (Tridef confirms this) and 3D vision certified monitors, which require you to run a 3D Vision / Tridef stack crippling performance. Personally, I'm excited for 4K Passive 3D TV's since 1080p scales perfectly with 4 pixel clusters resulting in no loss of image quality. Passive 4K supports up to 3840x1080 per eye but given how demanding S3D is 1080p is the sweet spot IMO.
Xizer said:That wasn't in Power3D mode. Watch Dogs does not have an official TriDef profile though so it wasn't a flawless 3D implementation. But it wasn't in 'fake 3D' either.


I use both Tridef and 3D Vision on 1080p passive displays; the Watch Dogs gameplay is 100% being rendered in Power 3D. You can clearly see telltale GUI distortions and character halos.

Bo3b could have stated it a little clearer but when he's referring to Tridef not working on nVidia hardware he's means S3D SLI (Tridef confirms this) and 3D vision certified monitors, which require you to run a 3D Vision / Tridef stack crippling performance.

Personally, I'm excited for 4K Passive 3D TV's since 1080p scales perfectly with 4 pixel clusters resulting in no loss of image quality. Passive 4K supports up to 3840x1080 per eye but given how demanding S3D is 1080p is the sweet spot IMO.

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#89
Posted 01/21/2015 01:51 AM   
I'd also love it if NVidia supported SBS so I can use my projector at 1080p / 60hz instead of 720p / 120. HOWEVER, as I pointed out in another thread, HDMI 1.4a has enough bandwith to display 1080p / 120 at 4:2:0 which is the same exact bandwidth as 2160p / 60hz using their chroma compression trick. If I could only find a way to force 4:2:0 in the control panel then I could proceed to test my projector, which definitely supports 120hz at least at 720p, and might even work at 1080p / 120 4:2:0 using 3DTV Play frame packing. NVidia, come on guys, throw us a friggen bone here.
I'd also love it if NVidia supported SBS so I can use my projector at 1080p / 60hz instead of 720p / 120.

HOWEVER, as I pointed out in another thread, HDMI 1.4a has enough bandwith to display 1080p / 120 at 4:2:0 which is the same exact bandwidth as 2160p / 60hz using their chroma compression trick.

If I could only find a way to force 4:2:0 in the control panel then I could proceed to test my projector, which definitely supports 120hz at least at 720p, and might even work at 1080p / 120 4:2:0 using 3DTV Play frame packing.

NVidia, come on guys, throw us a friggen bone here.

#90
Posted 01/22/2015 05:08 AM   
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