Hi all, I just upgraded to Optoma UHD50 for 1080p 120Hz 3D capability. I'm upgrading my 106" elunevision 1.2 gain screen as well. After tons of research on screens, I couldn't quite decide yet. I hope you guys can help. Some information and considerations for my particular set up:
Screen will be used 60% for 3D gaming and 40% for movies. Projector will be wall mounted shelf level, but can also mount in ceiling. I'm planning a 135" screen, and already run calculations in projectorcentral and got the measurements. Room has good lighting control except light color walls. For the sake of immersion, I'll be sitting very close to screen, maximum short of 2 meters. Projector placement might be a bit higher so I won't cast a shadow this close. Also considering dark shades to cover light color walls.
Coz of sitting too close, viewing angles and brightness at screen edges are somethings to consider. I might be at about 60 degree angle with screen edges. Typical white screens are great but for movies don't have good contrast. Grey screens are beautiful but due to high gains angles are tight. Lower gain grey screens are too dim for 3D probably. It's a dilemma I can't decide on.
So far I have looked closely at Elite Screens Cinegrey 5D 1.5 gain screens which I absolutely love, only issue is viewing angles and edges dim considerably. My current screen at 1.2 gain is very bright and wide angle for 3D, but blacks and contrast are not the best.
Can anyone recommend a screen with balance - grey material with good contrast and good angles, but not too dim for 3D. And how about typical white material of 1.4 gain such as elunevision silver pearl 1.4 material, or Da-Lite HD progressive 1.3 gain. I can't find good reviews or youtube vids.
Certainly anything past 1.4 gain will have tight angles. Is it worth sacrificing contrast and blacks in movies in favor of a brighter screen good for 3D. On the other hand, is it worth giving up brighter screens with good 3D for a tight viewing angles high contrast screen. I won't be sitting close for movies.
Thanks :)
Hi all, I just upgraded to Optoma UHD50 for 1080p 120Hz 3D capability. I'm upgrading my 106" elunevision 1.2 gain screen as well. After tons of research on screens, I couldn't quite decide yet. I hope you guys can help. Some information and considerations for my particular set up:
Screen will be used 60% for 3D gaming and 40% for movies. Projector will be wall mounted shelf level, but can also mount in ceiling. I'm planning a 135" screen, and already run calculations in projectorcentral and got the measurements. Room has good lighting control except light color walls. For the sake of immersion, I'll be sitting very close to screen, maximum short of 2 meters. Projector placement might be a bit higher so I won't cast a shadow this close. Also considering dark shades to cover light color walls.
Coz of sitting too close, viewing angles and brightness at screen edges are somethings to consider. I might be at about 60 degree angle with screen edges. Typical white screens are great but for movies don't have good contrast. Grey screens are beautiful but due to high gains angles are tight. Lower gain grey screens are too dim for 3D probably. It's a dilemma I can't decide on.
So far I have looked closely at Elite Screens Cinegrey 5D 1.5 gain screens which I absolutely love, only issue is viewing angles and edges dim considerably. My current screen at 1.2 gain is very bright and wide angle for 3D, but blacks and contrast are not the best.
Can anyone recommend a screen with balance - grey material with good contrast and good angles, but not too dim for 3D. And how about typical white material of 1.4 gain such as elunevision silver pearl 1.4 material, or Da-Lite HD progressive 1.3 gain. I can't find good reviews or youtube vids.
Certainly anything past 1.4 gain will have tight angles. Is it worth sacrificing contrast and blacks in movies in favor of a brighter screen good for 3D. On the other hand, is it worth giving up brighter screens with good 3D for a tight viewing angles high contrast screen. I won't be sitting close for movies.
Just make a curved frame and get some screen material. It helps Alot with narrow Angels.
If where to buy a screen i would buy stewart 5d or alr screen.
You can get stewart material if you have a stewart frame no matter you put it in or not.
you just need to find right size frame with bad screen and get it cheap then order replacemnt material and
Attach it tp you curved frame... or some other material.
Its pretty easy to use aluminium like 5-7cm x 2-3cm square profile. Cut the in size and get the top and bottom to a
Specific curve At some metal Work place. Then use metal L pieces to screw them into a frame and cover that with slim wood then
You make some holders for the frame , use basic bookshelf plank holder or ect. then you Are ready to put your screen material into frame.
Or you can buy cheap 3-5mm screen material kapa ect. And paint it your own and experiment on different paints. With a sprayer you get a good surface you can’t distinquish from bought screen
Just make a curved frame and get some screen material. It helps Alot with narrow Angels.
If where to buy a screen i would buy stewart 5d or alr screen.
You can get stewart material if you have a stewart frame no matter you put it in or not.
you just need to find right size frame with bad screen and get it cheap then order replacemnt material and
Attach it tp you curved frame... or some other material.
Its pretty easy to use aluminium like 5-7cm x 2-3cm square profile. Cut the in size and get the top and bottom to a
Specific curve At some metal Work place. Then use metal L pieces to screw them into a frame and cover that with slim wood then
You make some holders for the frame , use basic bookshelf plank holder or ect. then you Are ready to put your screen material into frame.
Or you can buy cheap 3-5mm screen material kapa ect. And paint it your own and experiment on different paints. With a sprayer you get a good surface you can’t distinquish from bought screen
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Also looking for an upgrade for my screen. Currently using a white 1.2 gain screen but black levels are poor. Also had an eye on the cinegrey 5d which is still in range of affordable high contrast screens. I've tried the trial piece which you can order for 6 euro and that looked very promising. Metal-O-holics suggestion also sounds very good. Will look how much Stewart material costs.
Any further suggestions are very welcome here.
Also looking for an upgrade for my screen. Currently using a white 1.2 gain screen but black levels are poor. Also had an eye on the cinegrey 5d which is still in range of affordable high contrast screens. I've tried the trial piece which you can order for 6 euro and that looked very promising. Metal-O-holics suggestion also sounds very good. Will look how much Stewart material costs.
Any further suggestions are very welcome here.
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You propably can’t get a quote for the material before you have the serial from the bad screen.
Someone At avs forums were selling material but i don’t remember who.
One good option is xtremscreens daylight reference 1.1 blackshark has one. You can also use it for polarisation 3d aplication but it still should have darn good 2D image.
With stewart and xtremscreens 120”+ we Are talking about ~2500$ Ish
You propably can’t get a quote for the material before you have the serial from the bad screen.
Someone At avs forums were selling material but i don’t remember who.
One good option is xtremscreens daylight reference 1.1 blackshark has one. You can also use it for polarisation 3d aplication but it still should have darn good 2D image.
With stewart and xtremscreens 120”+ we Are talking about ~2500$ Ish
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Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]Just make a curved frame and get some screen material. It helps Alot with narrow Angels.
If where to buy a screen i would buy stewart 5d or alr screen.
You can get stewart material if you have a stewart frame no matter you put it in or not.
you just need to find right size frame with bad screen and get it cheap then order replacemnt material and
Attach it tp you curved frame... or some other material.
Its pretty easy to use aluminium like 5-7cm x 2-3cm square profile. Cut the in size and get the top and bottom to a
Specific curve At some metal Work place. Then use metal L pieces to screw them into a frame and cover that with slim wood then
You make some holders for the frame , use basic bookshelf plank holder or ect. then you Are ready to put your screen material into frame.
Or you can buy cheap 3-5mm screen material kapa ect. And paint it your own and experiment on different paints. With a sprayer you get a good surface you can’t distinquish from bought screen[/quote]
Thanks Metal-O-Holic. I actually looked very hard and deep into a curved screen solution to counter the loss of edge brightness. Turned out curved screens have more challenges than benefits. A - The edges will be out of focus of projector lens and result in blurry image. It's hard to calculate curvature and focus loss to get it right. B - Image will be distorted. This can be corrected with software, but it may not be compatible with 3D Vision which is primary purpose of the set up. If it doesn't work it can be a costly experiment. C - It's extremely challenging to tension the material on a curved DIY screen coz if you tension horizontally on sides it results in wrinkles, so only vertically can work. Flat DIY screens are very easy to get right wrinkle free. I was originally planning a DIY screen with Cinegrey 5D as material is sold (item# ZRM-135HW-CINEGREY5D) if not for narrow angles. I calculated the angle from my seating to screen edge is about 50 degrees.
Keeping in mind my particular set up (description above) especially sitting too close for 3D gaming - so I have done tons and weeks of research, looked at every material from most reputable to cheap manufacturers, checked viewing angles and charts, gains, ISF, high contrast vs bright white, price points up to $2000, DIY solutions, DIY material sellers, paints etc and here's my conclusion:
1 - High contrast grey screens are not an option for 3D gaming if you're sitting too close. I came up empty with a single grey screen that can provide both wider angles and higher gains at the same time at an affordable price. It's either too dim for 3D or too narrow angle.
2 - If you sit farther back, It definitely pays off to get a high contrast screen. The best grey high contrast screen for 3D I found is Cinegrey 5D from Elite Screens. It's bright at 1.5 gain, angles are bit wider, blacks and colors are amazing, most affordable ALR screen, can be used in daylight, and most important of all, it's easy to find independent reviews of the material. YouTube is filled with Cinegrey 5D customers showing off their screens.
3 - Best option is a DIY flat screen. It's super easy and saves you potentially thousands. Be patient and take your time building your screen. Take a couple trips to Home Depot. If you're stuck watch tutorial videos on youtube and you'll get it right. Cheapest Cinegrey 5D screen at 135" is over a thousand. Material for 135" screen is for only $150USD on Amazon. Same screen and performance at fraction.
4 - Avoid curved screens if you're a 3D gamer unless you can afford manufactured curved screens. They're often expensive and not justified, made at just right curvature with minimum loss of edge focus. They're shaped such that distortion is no issue (narrow in middle and taller on edges). DIY is out of question.
5 - Bottom line for my set up, If you're like me sitting too close and you can control lights, then the best screen material I came up with is ChromaWhite from Elite Prime Vision screens (division of Elite Screens). It has 1.25 gain, extremely wide angle, ISF certified, it's not angular reflective and no need of special projector placement, and you can get it in 3 different product lines. It's on more expensive side depending on what screen you get it on.
6 - Lastly, If you're on a tight budget, sitting close, and can control lights, the second best options are equally Elunevision Cinema White 1.2 Gain and Elite Screens CineWhite® UHD 1.15 gain. Blacks and contrast in movies are not the best of course as with all white screens, but you need higher gain for 3D. 3D glasses will make contrast better anyways. Elunevision Cinema White 1.2 Gain is a bit brighter and I've been using it so far. It's excellent for 3D and movies. CineWhite® UHD 1.15 has slightly better blacks and contrast, and is ISF certified, so colores are overall better, but it's bit dimmer not much though.
So yah, sitting further? Cinegrey 5D is best no matter you're 3D gamer or movie enthusiast. Sitting close? Then ChromaWhite, gives you best contrast among white screens.
Hope it helps anyone 3D Vision gamer looking to upgrade screen :)
Metal-O-Holic said:Just make a curved frame and get some screen material. It helps Alot with narrow Angels.
If where to buy a screen i would buy stewart 5d or alr screen.
You can get stewart material if you have a stewart frame no matter you put it in or not.
you just need to find right size frame with bad screen and get it cheap then order replacemnt material and
Attach it tp you curved frame... or some other material.
Its pretty easy to use aluminium like 5-7cm x 2-3cm square profile. Cut the in size and get the top and bottom to a
Specific curve At some metal Work place. Then use metal L pieces to screw them into a frame and cover that with slim wood then
You make some holders for the frame , use basic bookshelf plank holder or ect. then you Are ready to put your screen material into frame.
Or you can buy cheap 3-5mm screen material kapa ect. And paint it your own and experiment on different paints. With a sprayer you get a good surface you can’t distinquish from bought screen
Thanks Metal-O-Holic. I actually looked very hard and deep into a curved screen solution to counter the loss of edge brightness. Turned out curved screens have more challenges than benefits. A - The edges will be out of focus of projector lens and result in blurry image. It's hard to calculate curvature and focus loss to get it right. B - Image will be distorted. This can be corrected with software, but it may not be compatible with 3D Vision which is primary purpose of the set up. If it doesn't work it can be a costly experiment. C - It's extremely challenging to tension the material on a curved DIY screen coz if you tension horizontally on sides it results in wrinkles, so only vertically can work. Flat DIY screens are very easy to get right wrinkle free. I was originally planning a DIY screen with Cinegrey 5D as material is sold (item# ZRM-135HW-CINEGREY5D) if not for narrow angles. I calculated the angle from my seating to screen edge is about 50 degrees.
Keeping in mind my particular set up (description above) especially sitting too close for 3D gaming - so I have done tons and weeks of research, looked at every material from most reputable to cheap manufacturers, checked viewing angles and charts, gains, ISF, high contrast vs bright white, price points up to $2000, DIY solutions, DIY material sellers, paints etc and here's my conclusion:
1 - High contrast grey screens are not an option for 3D gaming if you're sitting too close. I came up empty with a single grey screen that can provide both wider angles and higher gains at the same time at an affordable price. It's either too dim for 3D or too narrow angle.
2 - If you sit farther back, It definitely pays off to get a high contrast screen. The best grey high contrast screen for 3D I found is Cinegrey 5D from Elite Screens. It's bright at 1.5 gain, angles are bit wider, blacks and colors are amazing, most affordable ALR screen, can be used in daylight, and most important of all, it's easy to find independent reviews of the material. YouTube is filled with Cinegrey 5D customers showing off their screens.
3 - Best option is a DIY flat screen. It's super easy and saves you potentially thousands. Be patient and take your time building your screen. Take a couple trips to Home Depot. If you're stuck watch tutorial videos on youtube and you'll get it right. Cheapest Cinegrey 5D screen at 135" is over a thousand. Material for 135" screen is for only $150USD on Amazon. Same screen and performance at fraction.
4 - Avoid curved screens if you're a 3D gamer unless you can afford manufactured curved screens. They're often expensive and not justified, made at just right curvature with minimum loss of edge focus. They're shaped such that distortion is no issue (narrow in middle and taller on edges). DIY is out of question.
5 - Bottom line for my set up, If you're like me sitting too close and you can control lights, then the best screen material I came up with is ChromaWhite from Elite Prime Vision screens (division of Elite Screens). It has 1.25 gain, extremely wide angle, ISF certified, it's not angular reflective and no need of special projector placement, and you can get it in 3 different product lines. It's on more expensive side depending on what screen you get it on.
6 - Lastly, If you're on a tight budget, sitting close, and can control lights, the second best options are equally Elunevision Cinema White 1.2 Gain and Elite Screens CineWhite® UHD 1.15 gain. Blacks and contrast in movies are not the best of course as with all white screens, but you need higher gain for 3D. 3D glasses will make contrast better anyways. Elunevision Cinema White 1.2 Gain is a bit brighter and I've been using it so far. It's excellent for 3D and movies. CineWhite® UHD 1.15 has slightly better blacks and contrast, and is ISF certified, so colores are overall better, but it's bit dimmer not much though.
So yah, sitting further? Cinegrey 5D is best no matter you're 3D gamer or movie enthusiast. Sitting close? Then ChromaWhite, gives you best contrast among white screens.
Hope it helps anyone 3D Vision gamer looking to upgrade screen :)
Its a Mess i know. The world of screens.
I personally would say for good 3d number one key factor is BRIGHTNESS.
As it makes the image more enjoyable to watch it drasticly increases the 3d efect compared to too dim image.
Curved is harder to get good stretch on it but it can be done. My first screen Was a wax cloth painted with some manufacturers silverscreen paint. It Was not total flat, there Was a small bulge on the center but non visible on the image.
The current screen is rigid bendable 3mm PVC or Something painted Offcourse with my special paint. Not for you though, its for dual projection with polarized filtters. But o would say if you buy screen material that is stretchable you could stretch it to a rigid screen piece. And attach that into metal frame.
If you project from correct place the image is totally fine in aspect ratio no matter if you have image pricessing for warp.
Its not on problem for 3d vision if you use geobox502 to do the warp. But like i said with one projector its not totally nessisery if you not
Super purist about screen symmetry.
Other thing is that i disagree about image sharpness on the edges its totally bogus. When we Are talking about movie screen type curvatures. 7 degree forexample. And Yes i think there id difference in sharpness between projectors keystone and none settings.
Good warp box like geobox does pixel per pixel warp and the sharpness loss is super minimal. Have been using it for years.
Its a Mess i know. The world of screens.
I personally would say for good 3d number one key factor is BRIGHTNESS.
As it makes the image more enjoyable to watch it drasticly increases the 3d efect compared to too dim image.
Curved is harder to get good stretch on it but it can be done. My first screen Was a wax cloth painted with some manufacturers silverscreen paint. It Was not total flat, there Was a small bulge on the center but non visible on the image.
The current screen is rigid bendable 3mm PVC or Something painted Offcourse with my special paint. Not for you though, its for dual projection with polarized filtters. But o would say if you buy screen material that is stretchable you could stretch it to a rigid screen piece. And attach that into metal frame.
If you project from correct place the image is totally fine in aspect ratio no matter if you have image pricessing for warp.
Its not on problem for 3d vision if you use geobox502 to do the warp. But like i said with one projector its not totally nessisery if you not
Super purist about screen symmetry.
Other thing is that i disagree about image sharpness on the edges its totally bogus. When we Are talking about movie screen type curvatures. 7 degree forexample. And Yes i think there id difference in sharpness between projectors keystone and none settings.
Good warp box like geobox does pixel per pixel warp and the sharpness loss is super minimal. Have been using it for years.
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Though there could be a slightly difference to begin with in your setup when you Are sitting too close.
I have 4-4.5m to a 120” screen and i would not go that much closer.
If i were you i might just buy big 4k passive 3d tv
Though there could be a slightly difference to begin with in your setup when you Are sitting too close.
I have 4-4.5m to a 120” screen and i would not go that much closer.
If i were you i might just buy big 4k passive 3d tv
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[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]Its a Mess i know. The world of screens.
I personally would say for good 3d number one key factor is BRIGHTNESS.
As it makes the image more enjoyable to watch it drasticly increases the 3d efect compared to too dim image.
Curved is harder to get good stretch on it but it can be done. My first screen Was a wax cloth painted with some manufacturers silverscreen paint. It Was not total flat, there Was a small bulge on the center but non visible on the image.
The current screen is rigid bendable 3mm PVC or Something painted Offcourse with my special paint. Not for you though, its for dual projection with polarized filtters. But o would say if you buy screen material that is stretchable you could stretch it to a rigid screen piece. And attach that into metal frame.
If you project from correct place the image is totally fine in aspect ratio no matter if you have image pricessing for warp.
Its not on problem for 3d vision if you use geobox502 to do the warp. But like i said with one projector its not totally nessisery if you not
Super purist about screen symmetry.
Other thing is that i disagree about image sharpness on the edges its totally bogus. When we Are talking about movie screen type curvatures. 7 degree forexample. And Yes i think there id difference in sharpness between projectors keystone and none settings.
Good warp box like geobox does pixel per pixel warp and the sharpness loss is super minimal. Have been using it for years.
[/quote]
Thanks Metal-O-Holic, great info. Also looking for your input on another idea I have. I'm kinda leaning towards a dual screen solution. A motorized/manual pull down screen over a thin fixed DIY screen. I'm thinking of building a Cinegrey 5D thin DIY fixed frame screen for movies coz of better contrast and blacks. On top of it I can pull down a high gain white screen for 3D gaming coz of much needed brightness. It kinda gives the best of both worlds.
The Cinegrey 5D DIY screen can cost around $250 tops, and I can choose a high gain screen with average viewing angles specifically for 3D gaming and I don't have to worry about blacks and contrast when I wanna enjoy movies. I can maybe choose Elunevision Reference Studio 4K PureBright 2.4 gain screen for gaming. The specs are confusing coz it says half gain of 40 degrees, but the chart shows at 40 degrees it only drops to 2.0 gain.
Metal-O-Holic said:Its a Mess i know. The world of screens.
I personally would say for good 3d number one key factor is BRIGHTNESS.
As it makes the image more enjoyable to watch it drasticly increases the 3d efect compared to too dim image.
Curved is harder to get good stretch on it but it can be done. My first screen Was a wax cloth painted with some manufacturers silverscreen paint. It Was not total flat, there Was a small bulge on the center but non visible on the image.
The current screen is rigid bendable 3mm PVC or Something painted Offcourse with my special paint. Not for you though, its for dual projection with polarized filtters. But o would say if you buy screen material that is stretchable you could stretch it to a rigid screen piece. And attach that into metal frame.
If you project from correct place the image is totally fine in aspect ratio no matter if you have image pricessing for warp.
Its not on problem for 3d vision if you use geobox502 to do the warp. But like i said with one projector its not totally nessisery if you not
Super purist about screen symmetry.
Other thing is that i disagree about image sharpness on the edges its totally bogus. When we Are talking about movie screen type curvatures. 7 degree forexample. And Yes i think there id difference in sharpness between projectors keystone and none settings.
Good warp box like geobox does pixel per pixel warp and the sharpness loss is super minimal. Have been using it for years.
Thanks Metal-O-Holic, great info. Also looking for your input on another idea I have. I'm kinda leaning towards a dual screen solution. A motorized/manual pull down screen over a thin fixed DIY screen. I'm thinking of building a Cinegrey 5D thin DIY fixed frame screen for movies coz of better contrast and blacks. On top of it I can pull down a high gain white screen for 3D gaming coz of much needed brightness. It kinda gives the best of both worlds.
The Cinegrey 5D DIY screen can cost around $250 tops, and I can choose a high gain screen with average viewing angles specifically for 3D gaming and I don't have to worry about blacks and contrast when I wanna enjoy movies. I can maybe choose Elunevision Reference Studio 4K PureBright 2.4 gain screen for gaming. The specs are confusing coz it says half gain of 40 degrees, but the chart shows at 40 degrees it only drops to 2.0 gain.
Are there any sellers for Cinegrey 5D material in Europe / Germany? I only found a seller on amazon.com who is not shipping to my country. On the European website of Elite screens it seems that they only sell Cinegrey 3D material. Cinegrey 5D is only sold for 900€ bundled with the frame >.<. Buying just the material would save a lot of money...
@Captain0007: sounds like the perfect solution! Maybe I'll choose a similar one. However the 2.4 gain screen you suggested is too expensive (1800$). I found a white diffuse screen with 1.5 gain for just 100€ (motorized) on amazon.de. I think that would be pretty nice for 3D gaming. Maybe there are even 1.7 or 1.8 one for similar price. I'll continue searching. For movies I also think that the Cinegrey5D will be the best.
Are there any sellers for Cinegrey 5D material in Europe / Germany? I only found a seller on amazon.com who is not shipping to my country. On the European website of Elite screens it seems that they only sell Cinegrey 3D material. Cinegrey 5D is only sold for 900€ bundled with the frame >.<. Buying just the material would save a lot of money...
@Captain0007: sounds like the perfect solution! Maybe I'll choose a similar one. However the 2.4 gain screen you suggested is too expensive (1800$). I found a white diffuse screen with 1.5 gain for just 100€ (motorized) on amazon.de. I think that would be pretty nice for 3D gaming. Maybe there are even 1.7 or 1.8 one for similar price. I'll continue searching. For movies I also think that the Cinegrey5D will be the best.
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Dual screen is a good idea. I might also make dual screen setup in my next address. Rigid flip down is better as canvas is always wavy somewhere on the screen. Though there is also some drawbacks on flipdown screen but i would personally look first At flipdown installation.
Dual screen is a good idea. I might also make dual screen setup in my next address. Rigid flip down is better as canvas is always wavy somewhere on the screen. Though there is also some drawbacks on flipdown screen but i would personally look first At flipdown installation.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
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Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
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[quote="Pauldusler"]Are there any sellers for Cinegrey 5D material in Europe / Germany? I only found a seller on amazon.com who is not shipping to my country. On the European website of Elite screens it seems that they only sell Cinegrey 3D material. Cinegrey 5D is only sold for 900€ bundled with the frame >.<. Buying just the material would save a lot of money...[/quote]
Pauldusler, you can order Cinegrey 5D material from B&H Photo Video and they ship worldwide. They usually have the option of adding all import fee and everything into the order itself.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1103201-REG/elite_screens_zrm_135hw_cinegrey5d_designer_cut_series.html
[quote="Pauldusler"]@Captain0007: sounds like the perfect solution! Maybe I'll choose a similar one. However the 2.4 gain screen you suggested is too expensive (1800$)[/quote]
Here in Canada that same screen is right now on sale for $899CAD down from $1899 until Dec 20. Too bad they don't ship international. I'm seriously considering it lol
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]Dual screen is a good idea. I might also make dual screen setup in my next address. Rigid flip down is better as canvas is always wavy somewhere on the screen. Though there is also some drawbacks on flipdown screen but i would personally look first At flipdown installation.[/quote]
@Metal-O-Holic flip down is actually a great idea I never thought of. No waves or ripples, you're right. I can maybe flip it up with a hook and clip or something. Hmm lots of good ways to set this up.
I checked my screen again today just to test it out thoroughly one last time and yes it's clear I need to change this screen. Even in 3D with dark glasses the blacks aren't nearly as acceptable, more like grey and washed out. I think I'm probably gonna get Cinegrey 5D and build DIY and test it out. Maybe I may not need a second screen if it performs great for 3D.
The necessity for dual screen may not apply to most of you guys as I sit too close, otherwise I would just get Cinegrey 5D and enjoy movies and 3D games. From a bit distanc, angles are great and it's high gain.
Pauldusler said:Are there any sellers for Cinegrey 5D material in Europe / Germany? I only found a seller on amazon.com who is not shipping to my country. On the European website of Elite screens it seems that they only sell Cinegrey 3D material. Cinegrey 5D is only sold for 900€ bundled with the frame >.<. Buying just the material would save a lot of money...
Pauldusler said:@Captain0007: sounds like the perfect solution! Maybe I'll choose a similar one. However the 2.4 gain screen you suggested is too expensive (1800$)
Here in Canada that same screen is right now on sale for $899CAD down from $1899 until Dec 20. Too bad they don't ship international. I'm seriously considering it lol
Metal-O-Holic said:Dual screen is a good idea. I might also make dual screen setup in my next address. Rigid flip down is better as canvas is always wavy somewhere on the screen. Though there is also some drawbacks on flipdown screen but i would personally look first At flipdown installation.
@Metal-O-Holic flip down is actually a great idea I never thought of. No waves or ripples, you're right. I can maybe flip it up with a hook and clip or something. Hmm lots of good ways to set this up.
I checked my screen again today just to test it out thoroughly one last time and yes it's clear I need to change this screen. Even in 3D with dark glasses the blacks aren't nearly as acceptable, more like grey and washed out. I think I'm probably gonna get Cinegrey 5D and build DIY and test it out. Maybe I may not need a second screen if it performs great for 3D.
The necessity for dual screen may not apply to most of you guys as I sit too close, otherwise I would just get Cinegrey 5D and enjoy movies and 3D games. From a bit distanc, angles are great and it's high gain.
[quote="Captain0007"]
Pauldusler, you can order Cinegrey 5D material from B&H Photo Video and they ship worldwide. They usually have the option of adding all import fee and everything into the order itself.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1103201-REG/elite_screens_zrm_135hw_cinegrey5d_designer_cut_series.html
[/quote]
Great tip! Thx! Although taxes and shipping is very expensive (125$ in result) the screen would still be a fraction of the price (only 300$ / 265€).
Then I would still need a frame. How would you solve this? Just building it yourself?
How about the idea of buying a cheap 100€ frame bundled with a default diffuse white material and just install the cinegrey 5D material in that frame? Would this be possible?
Or is there even a seller out there who sells the Elite Screen ezFrame separately without the screen material for just a few bucks?
Great tip! Thx! Although taxes and shipping is very expensive (125$ in result) the screen would still be a fraction of the price (only 300$ / 265€).
Then I would still need a frame. How would you solve this? Just building it yourself?
How about the idea of buying a cheap 100€ frame bundled with a default diffuse white material and just install the cinegrey 5D material in that frame? Would this be possible?
Or is there even a seller out there who sells the Elite Screen ezFrame separately without the screen material for just a few bucks?
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@Pauldusler, building the frame is extremely easy. You can build a wood frame which is recommended coz it's rigid and strong and cheap; also the material can be stretched easily onto it. It's important coz the material will be wrinkle-fee without any waves or ripples. You can ask the hardware store cut the wood for you, or even build the whole frame maybe. YouTube is filled with video tutorials of building a DIY screen frame. You can even buy pipes and build frame out of it but it's not recommended as it's challenging to get the material stretched evenly without any wrinkles/ripples/waves. The most crucial thing is this stretching part. Carl's place also has a good tutorial.
Buying existing screen is not recommended for sure coz the material comes with pre cut holes or bars on edges etc that can be fitted/inserted on all four sides of the inner frame to keep it stretched. This won't work with a plain material coz there's no way of attaching it on frame. In addition, most frames are not wood so it won't allow you to staple the material on it or put nails etc.
I have done a lot of searching to see if anyone makes just frames for purpose of DIY screens and so far I haven't found one.
In any case, DIY is the way to go for sure coz the cheapest Cinegrey 5D screen is at least $1000. BTW my Optoma UHD50 is coming tomorrow. It's gonna be a ton of fun checking it out and experiencing real 1080p 3D :). Price is now back up at $1799CAD lol. Glad I ordered mine in time.
@Pauldusler, building the frame is extremely easy. You can build a wood frame which is recommended coz it's rigid and strong and cheap; also the material can be stretched easily onto it. It's important coz the material will be wrinkle-fee without any waves or ripples. You can ask the hardware store cut the wood for you, or even build the whole frame maybe. YouTube is filled with video tutorials of building a DIY screen frame. You can even buy pipes and build frame out of it but it's not recommended as it's challenging to get the material stretched evenly without any wrinkles/ripples/waves. The most crucial thing is this stretching part. Carl's place also has a good tutorial.
Buying existing screen is not recommended for sure coz the material comes with pre cut holes or bars on edges etc that can be fitted/inserted on all four sides of the inner frame to keep it stretched. This won't work with a plain material coz there's no way of attaching it on frame. In addition, most frames are not wood so it won't allow you to staple the material on it or put nails etc.
I have done a lot of searching to see if anyone makes just frames for purpose of DIY screens and so far I haven't found one.
In any case, DIY is the way to go for sure coz the cheapest Cinegrey 5D screen is at least $1000. BTW my Optoma UHD50 is coming tomorrow. It's gonna be a ton of fun checking it out and experiencing real 1080p 3D :). Price is now back up at $1799CAD lol. Glad I ordered mine in time.
@Captin0007: Thx for you advices! I watched some youtubes tutorials and it didn't look too hard. Also searched for ready-to use frames but didn't find anything. And frames with diffuse white material are more expensive than I thought (>200€). But you're right - with an existing frame we probably get a problem when trying to attach the screen material to the frame.
I have a small sample of the Cinegrey 5D material and I tried it for both 3D and 2D mode. Generally cinegrey is a little bit brighter than my white diffuse 1.2 gain material and contrasts are better -especially in 2D mode (tested in a dark light controlled room). When daylight falls to the screen the cinegrey 5D shows it's full potential. While the white screen is pretty useless in this cenario the cinegrey5D is still ok (although not to be meant to be used as a daylight screen).
I think I'll try my luck to import the screen material. Costs would be much more reasonable. 265€ for the cinegrey5D and maybe 50-100€ for the frame material. so maybe 300-350€ in the end instead of 920€!
@Captin0007: Thx for you advices! I watched some youtubes tutorials and it didn't look too hard. Also searched for ready-to use frames but didn't find anything. And frames with diffuse white material are more expensive than I thought (>200€). But you're right - with an existing frame we probably get a problem when trying to attach the screen material to the frame.
I have a small sample of the Cinegrey 5D material and I tried it for both 3D and 2D mode. Generally cinegrey is a little bit brighter than my white diffuse 1.2 gain material and contrasts are better -especially in 2D mode (tested in a dark light controlled room). When daylight falls to the screen the cinegrey 5D shows it's full potential. While the white screen is pretty useless in this cenario the cinegrey5D is still ok (although not to be meant to be used as a daylight screen).
I think I'll try my luck to import the screen material. Costs would be much more reasonable. 265€ for the cinegrey5D and maybe 50-100€ for the frame material. so maybe 300-350€ in the end instead of 920€!
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Hi Paul,
I made my own fixed frame screen years ago and it wasn't hard. I just used wooden batten which you can get cheap anywhere. At the time I used blackout lining which I bought off a roll at a fabric shop, cut to measure.
As Captain007 said, the stretching part is key but it's not hard if you take your time and mentally rehearse it first. I just followed an old Canvas stretching guide and I had a compressed air powered staple gun :-)
The resultant frame was cheap, sturdy and wrinkle free :-) I also eventually spray painted it with "dulux light and space" paint, as I'd read that it was a good formulation for projector screens.
Good luck!
I made my own fixed frame screen years ago and it wasn't hard. I just used wooden batten which you can get cheap anywhere. At the time I used blackout lining which I bought off a roll at a fabric shop, cut to measure.
As Captain007 said, the stretching part is key but it's not hard if you take your time and mentally rehearse it first. I just followed an old Canvas stretching guide and I had a compressed air powered staple gun :-)
The resultant frame was cheap, sturdy and wrinkle free :-) I also eventually spray painted it with "dulux light and space" paint, as I'd read that it was a good formulation for projector screens.
Good luck!
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Screen will be used 60% for 3D gaming and 40% for movies. Projector will be wall mounted shelf level, but can also mount in ceiling. I'm planning a 135" screen, and already run calculations in projectorcentral and got the measurements. Room has good lighting control except light color walls. For the sake of immersion, I'll be sitting very close to screen, maximum short of 2 meters. Projector placement might be a bit higher so I won't cast a shadow this close. Also considering dark shades to cover light color walls.
Coz of sitting too close, viewing angles and brightness at screen edges are somethings to consider. I might be at about 60 degree angle with screen edges. Typical white screens are great but for movies don't have good contrast. Grey screens are beautiful but due to high gains angles are tight. Lower gain grey screens are too dim for 3D probably. It's a dilemma I can't decide on.
So far I have looked closely at Elite Screens Cinegrey 5D 1.5 gain screens which I absolutely love, only issue is viewing angles and edges dim considerably. My current screen at 1.2 gain is very bright and wide angle for 3D, but blacks and contrast are not the best.
Can anyone recommend a screen with balance - grey material with good contrast and good angles, but not too dim for 3D. And how about typical white material of 1.4 gain such as elunevision silver pearl 1.4 material, or Da-Lite HD progressive 1.3 gain. I can't find good reviews or youtube vids.
Certainly anything past 1.4 gain will have tight angles. Is it worth sacrificing contrast and blacks in movies in favor of a brighter screen good for 3D. On the other hand, is it worth giving up brighter screens with good 3D for a tight viewing angles high contrast screen. I won't be sitting close for movies.
Thanks :)
If where to buy a screen i would buy stewart 5d or alr screen.
You can get stewart material if you have a stewart frame no matter you put it in or not.
you just need to find right size frame with bad screen and get it cheap then order replacemnt material and
Attach it tp you curved frame... or some other material.
Its pretty easy to use aluminium like 5-7cm x 2-3cm square profile. Cut the in size and get the top and bottom to a
Specific curve At some metal Work place. Then use metal L pieces to screw them into a frame and cover that with slim wood then
You make some holders for the frame , use basic bookshelf plank holder or ect. then you Are ready to put your screen material into frame.
Or you can buy cheap 3-5mm screen material kapa ect. And paint it your own and experiment on different paints. With a sprayer you get a good surface you can’t distinquish from bought screen
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Any further suggestions are very welcome here.
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Someone At avs forums were selling material but i don’t remember who.
One good option is xtremscreens daylight reference 1.1 blackshark has one. You can also use it for polarisation 3d aplication but it still should have darn good 2D image.
With stewart and xtremscreens 120”+ we Are talking about ~2500$ Ish
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Thanks Metal-O-Holic. I actually looked very hard and deep into a curved screen solution to counter the loss of edge brightness. Turned out curved screens have more challenges than benefits. A - The edges will be out of focus of projector lens and result in blurry image. It's hard to calculate curvature and focus loss to get it right. B - Image will be distorted. This can be corrected with software, but it may not be compatible with 3D Vision which is primary purpose of the set up. If it doesn't work it can be a costly experiment. C - It's extremely challenging to tension the material on a curved DIY screen coz if you tension horizontally on sides it results in wrinkles, so only vertically can work. Flat DIY screens are very easy to get right wrinkle free. I was originally planning a DIY screen with Cinegrey 5D as material is sold (item# ZRM-135HW-CINEGREY5D) if not for narrow angles. I calculated the angle from my seating to screen edge is about 50 degrees.
Keeping in mind my particular set up (description above) especially sitting too close for 3D gaming - so I have done tons and weeks of research, looked at every material from most reputable to cheap manufacturers, checked viewing angles and charts, gains, ISF, high contrast vs bright white, price points up to $2000, DIY solutions, DIY material sellers, paints etc and here's my conclusion:
1 - High contrast grey screens are not an option for 3D gaming if you're sitting too close. I came up empty with a single grey screen that can provide both wider angles and higher gains at the same time at an affordable price. It's either too dim for 3D or too narrow angle.
2 - If you sit farther back, It definitely pays off to get a high contrast screen. The best grey high contrast screen for 3D I found is Cinegrey 5D from Elite Screens. It's bright at 1.5 gain, angles are bit wider, blacks and colors are amazing, most affordable ALR screen, can be used in daylight, and most important of all, it's easy to find independent reviews of the material. YouTube is filled with Cinegrey 5D customers showing off their screens.
3 - Best option is a DIY flat screen. It's super easy and saves you potentially thousands. Be patient and take your time building your screen. Take a couple trips to Home Depot. If you're stuck watch tutorial videos on youtube and you'll get it right. Cheapest Cinegrey 5D screen at 135" is over a thousand. Material for 135" screen is for only $150USD on Amazon. Same screen and performance at fraction.
4 - Avoid curved screens if you're a 3D gamer unless you can afford manufactured curved screens. They're often expensive and not justified, made at just right curvature with minimum loss of edge focus. They're shaped such that distortion is no issue (narrow in middle and taller on edges). DIY is out of question.
5 - Bottom line for my set up, If you're like me sitting too close and you can control lights, then the best screen material I came up with is ChromaWhite from Elite Prime Vision screens (division of Elite Screens). It has 1.25 gain, extremely wide angle, ISF certified, it's not angular reflective and no need of special projector placement, and you can get it in 3 different product lines. It's on more expensive side depending on what screen you get it on.
6 - Lastly, If you're on a tight budget, sitting close, and can control lights, the second best options are equally Elunevision Cinema White 1.2 Gain and Elite Screens CineWhite® UHD 1.15 gain. Blacks and contrast in movies are not the best of course as with all white screens, but you need higher gain for 3D. 3D glasses will make contrast better anyways. Elunevision Cinema White 1.2 Gain is a bit brighter and I've been using it so far. It's excellent for 3D and movies. CineWhite® UHD 1.15 has slightly better blacks and contrast, and is ISF certified, so colores are overall better, but it's bit dimmer not much though.
So yah, sitting further? Cinegrey 5D is best no matter you're 3D gamer or movie enthusiast. Sitting close? Then ChromaWhite, gives you best contrast among white screens.
Hope it helps anyone 3D Vision gamer looking to upgrade screen :)
I personally would say for good 3d number one key factor is BRIGHTNESS.
As it makes the image more enjoyable to watch it drasticly increases the 3d efect compared to too dim image.
Curved is harder to get good stretch on it but it can be done. My first screen Was a wax cloth painted with some manufacturers silverscreen paint. It Was not total flat, there Was a small bulge on the center but non visible on the image.
The current screen is rigid bendable 3mm PVC or Something painted Offcourse with my special paint. Not for you though, its for dual projection with polarized filtters. But o would say if you buy screen material that is stretchable you could stretch it to a rigid screen piece. And attach that into metal frame.
If you project from correct place the image is totally fine in aspect ratio no matter if you have image pricessing for warp.
Its not on problem for 3d vision if you use geobox502 to do the warp. But like i said with one projector its not totally nessisery if you not
Super purist about screen symmetry.
Other thing is that i disagree about image sharpness on the edges its totally bogus. When we Are talking about movie screen type curvatures. 7 degree forexample. And Yes i think there id difference in sharpness between projectors keystone and none settings.
Good warp box like geobox does pixel per pixel warp and the sharpness loss is super minimal. Have been using it for years.
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I have 4-4.5m to a 120” screen and i would not go that much closer.
If i were you i might just buy big 4k passive 3d tv
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Thanks Metal-O-Holic, great info. Also looking for your input on another idea I have. I'm kinda leaning towards a dual screen solution. A motorized/manual pull down screen over a thin fixed DIY screen. I'm thinking of building a Cinegrey 5D thin DIY fixed frame screen for movies coz of better contrast and blacks. On top of it I can pull down a high gain white screen for 3D gaming coz of much needed brightness. It kinda gives the best of both worlds.
The Cinegrey 5D DIY screen can cost around $250 tops, and I can choose a high gain screen with average viewing angles specifically for 3D gaming and I don't have to worry about blacks and contrast when I wanna enjoy movies. I can maybe choose Elunevision Reference Studio 4K PureBright 2.4 gain screen for gaming. The specs are confusing coz it says half gain of 40 degrees, but the chart shows at 40 degrees it only drops to 2.0 gain.
@Captain0007: sounds like the perfect solution! Maybe I'll choose a similar one. However the 2.4 gain screen you suggested is too expensive (1800$). I found a white diffuse screen with 1.5 gain for just 100€ (motorized) on amazon.de. I think that would be pretty nice for 3D gaming. Maybe there are even 1.7 or 1.8 one for similar price. I'll continue searching. For movies I also think that the Cinegrey5D will be the best.
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Pauldusler, you can order Cinegrey 5D material from B&H Photo Video and they ship worldwide. They usually have the option of adding all import fee and everything into the order itself.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1103201-REG/elite_screens_zrm_135hw_cinegrey5d_designer_cut_series.html
Here in Canada that same screen is right now on sale for $899CAD down from $1899 until Dec 20. Too bad they don't ship international. I'm seriously considering it lol
@Metal-O-Holic flip down is actually a great idea I never thought of. No waves or ripples, you're right. I can maybe flip it up with a hook and clip or something. Hmm lots of good ways to set this up.
I checked my screen again today just to test it out thoroughly one last time and yes it's clear I need to change this screen. Even in 3D with dark glasses the blacks aren't nearly as acceptable, more like grey and washed out. I think I'm probably gonna get Cinegrey 5D and build DIY and test it out. Maybe I may not need a second screen if it performs great for 3D.
The necessity for dual screen may not apply to most of you guys as I sit too close, otherwise I would just get Cinegrey 5D and enjoy movies and 3D games. From a bit distanc, angles are great and it's high gain.
Great tip! Thx! Although taxes and shipping is very expensive (125$ in result) the screen would still be a fraction of the price (only 300$ / 265€).
Then I would still need a frame. How would you solve this? Just building it yourself?
How about the idea of buying a cheap 100€ frame bundled with a default diffuse white material and just install the cinegrey 5D material in that frame? Would this be possible?
Or is there even a seller out there who sells the Elite Screen ezFrame separately without the screen material for just a few bucks?
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Buying existing screen is not recommended for sure coz the material comes with pre cut holes or bars on edges etc that can be fitted/inserted on all four sides of the inner frame to keep it stretched. This won't work with a plain material coz there's no way of attaching it on frame. In addition, most frames are not wood so it won't allow you to staple the material on it or put nails etc.
I have done a lot of searching to see if anyone makes just frames for purpose of DIY screens and so far I haven't found one.
In any case, DIY is the way to go for sure coz the cheapest Cinegrey 5D screen is at least $1000. BTW my Optoma UHD50 is coming tomorrow. It's gonna be a ton of fun checking it out and experiencing real 1080p 3D :). Price is now back up at $1799CAD lol. Glad I ordered mine in time.
I have a small sample of the Cinegrey 5D material and I tried it for both 3D and 2D mode. Generally cinegrey is a little bit brighter than my white diffuse 1.2 gain material and contrasts are better -especially in 2D mode (tested in a dark light controlled room). When daylight falls to the screen the cinegrey 5D shows it's full potential. While the white screen is pretty useless in this cenario the cinegrey5D is still ok (although not to be meant to be used as a daylight screen).
I think I'll try my luck to import the screen material. Costs would be much more reasonable. 265€ for the cinegrey5D and maybe 50-100€ for the frame material. so maybe 300-350€ in the end instead of 920€!
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I made my own fixed frame screen years ago and it wasn't hard. I just used wooden batten which you can get cheap anywhere. At the time I used blackout lining which I bought off a roll at a fabric shop, cut to measure.
As Captain007 said, the stretching part is key but it's not hard if you take your time and mentally rehearse it first. I just followed an old Canvas stretching guide and I had a compressed air powered staple gun :-)
The resultant frame was cheap, sturdy and wrinkle free :-) I also eventually spray painted it with "dulux light and space" paint, as I'd read that it was a good formulation for projector screens.
Good luck!
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