Future of 3D Vision Support (Official announcement from NVIDIA)
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[quote="simon$"][quote="bo3b"]I'm not seeing this on my Rift system. Win10 1809, Driver 419.17. Not latest driver. Rift is working fine, no forced update. What OS and driver are you running?[/quote]Oculus has only just started pushing update 1.37: [url]https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75334/rift-1-37-release-rolling-out-now[/url] I'm guessing that is the one with the problem. I'm still on 1.36 and haven't been offered an update yet. I'd be interested to know if @DJ-RK has tried @Losti's driver fix and if so, whether or not that made the update screen go away: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1109399/3d-vision/the-way-its-meant-to-be-played-/[/url] Edit: does anyone know of a way of blocking Oculus updates in case this is going to be an issue?[/quote] Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond. No way that I know of to block Oculus updates. You can't play offline. They are as hostile as they come. Guess I'm done with my Rift.
simon$ said:
bo3b said:I'm not seeing this on my Rift system. Win10 1809, Driver 419.17. Not latest driver. Rift is working fine, no forced update.

What OS and driver are you running?
Oculus has only just started pushing update 1.37:
https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75334/rift-1-37-release-rolling-out-now

I'm guessing that is the one with the problem. I'm still on 1.36 and haven't been offered an update yet. I'd be interested to know if @DJ-RK has tried @Losti's driver fix and if so, whether or not that made the update screen go away:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1109399/3d-vision/the-way-its-meant-to-be-played-/

Edit: does anyone know of a way of blocking Oculus updates in case this is going to be an issue?

Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond.

No way that I know of to block Oculus updates. You can't play offline. They are as hostile as they come. Guess I'm done with my Rift.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 05/14/2019 12:10 PM   
[quote="bo3b"] Guess I'm done with my Rift.[/quote] [img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/4334a6537b3d9a4f45487fb9fb266e41/tenor.gif?itemid=10455620[/img]
bo3b said:

Guess I'm done with my Rift.


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Posted 05/14/2019 06:05 PM   
3d vision works for any games Vr works only for firt personn view Nooo, that's stupid
3d vision works for any games

Vr works only for firt personn view

Nooo, that's stupid

Posted 05/14/2019 08:02 PM   
Just a quick update. I was pushed onto Oculus update 1.37 today. After the update I had a red warning message appear at the top of the Oculus desktop app about new drivers being required (and a similar warning in the HMD). I let it do this update and it did something in the background and then was happy. My nVidia drivers weren't affected by the process. As a result my Rift is working fine and I still have 3dvision working, neither with any issues even after a reboot. Perhaps @DJ-RK was put off by the red warning thinking it referred to an nVidia update? If it helps, I'm currently on Windows 1809 17763.475 and nVidia Geforce drivers 425.31
Just a quick update. I was pushed onto Oculus update 1.37 today. After the update I had a red warning message appear at the top of the Oculus desktop app about new drivers being required (and a similar warning in the HMD). I let it do this update and it did something in the background and then was happy. My nVidia drivers weren't affected by the process.

As a result my Rift is working fine and I still have 3dvision working, neither with any issues even after a reboot. Perhaps @DJ-RK was put off by the red warning thinking it referred to an nVidia update?
If it helps, I'm currently on Windows 1809 17763.475 and nVidia Geforce drivers 425.31

Posted 05/15/2019 05:47 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond.[/quote] Ummmm, shit. I read the replies to your post on the Oculus forum, and someone there mentioned that it's the Oculus driver itself that needed an update, not the GPU driver. Just loaded up my Oculus and confirmed that it was, in fact, the Oculus driver that it was prompting to update. Sorry man, I feel bad for this since you went off of my report and got called out in the other thread for not knowing what you're talking about, when it was me that jumped to the wrong conclusion. I guess, on the plus side, your Oculus isn't a paperweight yet. On the plus side for me: I've spent the past couple days getting my Win 7 drive setup for fixing games, and finding it actually does a few things quite a bit faster (like converting DDS files to PNG from a frame analysis dump), and also finding my performance is quite a bit more stable there as well (which probably shouldn't come as a surprise).
bo3b said:Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond.


Ummmm, shit. I read the replies to your post on the Oculus forum, and someone there mentioned that it's the Oculus driver itself that needed an update, not the GPU driver. Just loaded up my Oculus and confirmed that it was, in fact, the Oculus driver that it was prompting to update. Sorry man, I feel bad for this since you went off of my report and got called out in the other thread for not knowing what you're talking about, when it was me that jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I guess, on the plus side, your Oculus isn't a paperweight yet. On the plus side for me: I've spent the past couple days getting my Win 7 drive setup for fixing games, and finding it actually does a few things quite a bit faster (like converting DDS files to PNG from a frame analysis dump), and also finding my performance is quite a bit more stable there as well (which probably shouldn't come as a surprise).

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Posted 05/15/2019 05:58 AM   
[quote="simon$"]Perhaps @DJ-RK was put off by the red warning thinking it referred to an nVidia update?[/quote] Bingo. My bad. Just with knowledge that it can (and probably will) happen eventually, I immediately expected that was already the case here.
simon$ said:Perhaps @DJ-RK was put off by the red warning thinking it referred to an nVidia update?


Bingo. My bad. Just with knowledge that it can (and probably will) happen eventually, I immediately expected that was already the case here.

3D Gaming Rig: CPU: i7 7700K @ 4.9Ghz | Mobo: Asus Maximus Hero VIII | RAM: Corsair Dominator 16GB | GPU: 2 x GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 3xSSDs for OS and Apps, 2 x HDD's for 11GB storage | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 M2| Case: Corsair C70 | Cooling: Corsair H115i Hydro cooler | Displays: Asus PG278QR, BenQ XL2420TX & BenQ HT1075 | OS: Windows 10 Pro + Windows 7 dual boot

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Posted 05/15/2019 05:59 AM   
[quote="bo3b"][quote="simon$"][quote="bo3b"]I'm not seeing this on my Rift system. Win10 1809, Driver 419.17. Not latest driver. Rift is working fine, no forced update. What OS and driver are you running?[/quote]Oculus has only just started pushing update 1.37: [url]https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75334/rift-1-37-release-rolling-out-now[/url] I' guessing that is the one with the problem. I'm still on 1.36 and haven't been offered an update yet. I'd be interested to know if @DJ-RK has tried @Losti's driver fix and if so, whether or not that made the update screen go away: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1109399/3d-vision/the-way-its-meant-to-be-played-/[/url] Edit: does anyone know of a way of blocking Oculus updates in case this is going to be an issue?[/quote] Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond. No way that I know of to block Oculus updates. You can't play offline. They are as hostile as they come. Guess I'm done with my Rift.[/quote] Nevertheless that simon$ posted that the new occolus version will also work with if of an interest for me if we can do a trick here (also for other applications) to let the system think we are at the latest NV-Driver. I am using all the files from the new driver except 2 hands full of files from the display.driver folder that seems to be the main core for the driver and enables 3D vision usage for me. If I enter the NV-CP it’s written 425.31 here. This THIS is something that comes with one of the files. I have done a quick check of the file content and the display driver version is written in all of the dll/sys files here. Ill install NV-GeforceExperiance and I’ll see if this one will tell me there is a new driver update (what I expect) I’ll try to use an HexEditor to just change this number to the latest driver one. I’ll have a look @ the CP if the number displayed here is changed than and then I’ll try NV-GeforceExperiance and I’ll see if this one will still suggest an update or if it’s telling me I am using the latest driver, even if the files are from 425 but with other versions written inside. This may be useful later...
bo3b said:
simon$ said:
bo3b said:I'm not seeing this on my Rift system. Win10 1809, Driver 419.17. Not latest driver. Rift is working fine, no forced update.

What OS and driver are you running?
Oculus has only just started pushing update 1.37:
https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75334/rift-1-37-release-rolling-out-now

I' guessing that is the one with the problem. I'm still on 1.36 and haven't been offered an update yet. I'd be interested to know if @DJ-RK has tried @Losti's driver fix and if so, whether or not that made the update screen go away:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1109399/3d-vision/the-way-its-meant-to-be-played-/

Edit: does anyone know of a way of blocking Oculus updates in case this is going to be an issue?

Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond.

No way that I know of to block Oculus updates. You can't play offline. They are as hostile as they come. Guess I'm done with my Rift.

Nevertheless that simon$ posted that the new occolus version will also work with if of an interest for me if we can do a trick here (also for other applications) to let the system think we are at the latest NV-Driver.

I am using all the files from the new driver except 2 hands full of files from the display.driver folder that seems to be the main core for the driver and enables 3D vision usage for me. If I enter the NV-CP it’s written 425.31 here. This THIS is something that comes with one of the files. I have done a quick check of the file content and the display driver version is written in all of the dll/sys files here. Ill install NV-GeforceExperiance and I’ll see if this one will tell me there is a new driver update (what I expect)

I’ll try to use an HexEditor to just change this number to the latest driver one. I’ll have a look @ the CP if the number displayed here is changed than and then I’ll try NV-GeforceExperiance and I’ll see if this one will still suggest an update or if it’s telling me I am using the latest driver, even if the files are from 425 but with other versions written inside.

This may be useful later...

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Posted 05/15/2019 07:26 AM   
[quote="DJ-RK"][quote="bo3b"]Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond.[/quote]Ummmm, shit. I read the replies to your post on the Oculus forum, and someone there mentioned that it's the Oculus driver itself that needed an update, not the GPU driver. Just loaded up my Oculus and confirmed that it was, in fact, the Oculus driver that it was prompting to update. Sorry man, I feel bad for this since you went off of my report and got called out in the other thread for not knowing what you're talking about, when it was me that jumped to the wrong conclusion. I guess, on the plus side, your Oculus isn't a paperweight yet. On the plus side for me: I've spent the past couple days getting my Win 7 drive setup for fixing games, and finding it actually does a few things quite a bit faster (like converting DDS files to PNG from a frame analysis dump), and also finding my performance is quite a bit more stable there as well (which probably shouldn't come as a surprise).[/quote] Not a huge problem, it blows my credibility there, but I don't care about those people anyway. Oculus has been hostile for so long that it did not seem unlikely. I responded for my mistake, and also edited my post to strike through. Of course I'll never believe anything you say now either... ;-) Plus in 3D land, I'm like a beaten dog. Whenever anybody raises their hand to say Hi, I flinch, expecting to get hit. Anytime anybody talks about 3D on a forum, I expect to just take another beating. On the Win7 side- now maybe people are starting to understand why I was talking about the perils of the forced updates from Win10, and why the better choice was Win7? Force updates, and always on requirements are absolutely anti-consumer. They amount to you losing control of your machine, and simply borrowing your software from the big corporations. Oculus didn't kill us this time, but they do have the power to kill us at any time, and might even just do it by accident. Same with WMR. I'm less concerned about OpenVR and Vive. Valve is not as anti-consumer, and have no always-on or forced update requirements so far. So far, they believe in backwards compatibility.
DJ-RK said:
bo3b said:Thanks for the link, I added a question as to why they are forcing driver update. Of course, they'll never respond.
Ummmm, shit. I read the replies to your post on the Oculus forum, and someone there mentioned that it's the Oculus driver itself that needed an update, not the GPU driver. Just loaded up my Oculus and confirmed that it was, in fact, the Oculus driver that it was prompting to update. Sorry man, I feel bad for this since you went off of my report and got called out in the other thread for not knowing what you're talking about, when it was me that jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I guess, on the plus side, your Oculus isn't a paperweight yet. On the plus side for me: I've spent the past couple days getting my Win 7 drive setup for fixing games, and finding it actually does a few things quite a bit faster (like converting DDS files to PNG from a frame analysis dump), and also finding my performance is quite a bit more stable there as well (which probably shouldn't come as a surprise).

Not a huge problem, it blows my credibility there, but I don't care about those people anyway. Oculus has been hostile for so long that it did not seem unlikely. I responded for my mistake, and also edited my post to strike through. Of course I'll never believe anything you say now either... ;-)

Plus in 3D land, I'm like a beaten dog. Whenever anybody raises their hand to say Hi, I flinch, expecting to get hit. Anytime anybody talks about 3D on a forum, I expect to just take another beating.


On the Win7 side- now maybe people are starting to understand why I was talking about the perils of the forced updates from Win10, and why the better choice was Win7?

Force updates, and always on requirements are absolutely anti-consumer. They amount to you losing control of your machine, and simply borrowing your software from the big corporations.

Oculus didn't kill us this time, but they do have the power to kill us at any time, and might even just do it by accident. Same with WMR. I'm less concerned about OpenVR and Vive. Valve is not as anti-consumer, and have no always-on or forced update requirements so far. So far, they believe in backwards compatibility.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 05/15/2019 08:49 AM   
FWIW, in the past, there absolutely have been occasions where Oculus required XXX.XX version of GeForce drivers. Oculus would not install until one had the the proper version of GeForce drivers installed on the system. I don't think it's a question of "If", but "When". What we might be able to do is download the offline installer version of the Oculus software every once in a while into a repository. Once Oculus does eventually pull the trigger, we could then go back to a previous version from the repository, and then firewall off Oculus from the net. -- A potential workaround, though not an ideal solution obviously.
FWIW, in the past, there absolutely have been occasions where Oculus required XXX.XX version of GeForce drivers. Oculus would not install until one had the the proper version of GeForce drivers installed on the system.

I don't think it's a question of "If", but "When".

What we might be able to do is download the offline installer version of the Oculus software every once in a while into a repository. Once Oculus does eventually pull the trigger, we could then go back to a previous version from the repository, and then firewall off Oculus from the net.

-- A potential workaround, though not an ideal solution obviously.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 05/15/2019 09:38 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]I don't care about those people anyway.[/quote] Yes, the thread that you posted on spent most of the first page squabbling over what "strafing" means, so I doubt if credibility there is much to worry about lol.
bo3b said:I don't care about those people anyway.


Yes, the thread that you posted on spent most of the first page squabbling over what "strafing" means, so I doubt if credibility there is much to worry about lol.

Posted 05/15/2019 10:44 AM   
@simon$ Provided you were not a spammer, to get your hidden post to show, you need to see this thread. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/845400/forum-feedback/post-here-if-your-posts-amp-replies-are-hidden/
@simon$

Provided you were not a spammer, to get your hidden post to show, you need to see this thread.


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/845400/forum-feedback/post-here-if-your-posts-amp-replies-are-hidden/

Posted 05/15/2019 11:31 AM   
D-Man11 kindly created a thread which asked for DSS / bo3b's take so far. I felt that bo3b's response was too important to leave in that thread, so it is as below: [quote="bo3b"] [quote="D-Man11"]Anyone have a guess as to how many supporters would be on board? Certainly 100? I would think 200? I doubt it How many do you think that we would need to be sustainable? I think at least 500[/quote]This was actually part of my asking in the main thread about how many people might contribute and what they might feel is reasonable. Part of that was to try to get a rough feel for the level of support. Everyone who posts here are pretty reasonable and willing to contribute far beyond what should be necessary. I think we all appreciate the comments from everyone, and the level of support. But... my take is that we are just too few to make a difference here. To do this kind of work, it's going to take at least a full year of full-time effort from DarkStarSword, or 2 years of full-time effort from me. (Helifax could do this too, at 1 year of full-time effort) None of us can justify that level of time. Back of the envelope calculation, we are off by an order of magnitude in terms of financial support. If everyone here donated to their maximum ability, we are in the very roughly $5,000 range. Full time engineering for people at our level pays roughly $200,000/year now. Even if we as engineers bite the bullet and go for low pay for something we want to work on, none of us could justify going below tight living expenses of roughly $50,000/year. We are off by a factor of 10, and that's not a one-time price, that's a yearly price. This is why I was asking about a yearly fee as well. I do not think this can be done on a donation/patreon basis, there simply are not enough of us who care. It's not impossible that we could make a go of it as a commercial product, where if you want to use it, you have to buy it. That gets people of the sidelines, and straight into the commercial aspect, where they are buying a product. Everyone understands this, and if we were the only game in town, we could conceivably get the 1,000 people at $50/year that it would take. This was actually part of my goal with getting a VR TV out the door as a commercial product. Not that it itself would make money, but would provide direct feedback on how many VR people might be interested in 3D, if it were cheap. This is less sure today, because Oculus just prematurely destroyed the Rift side of the market. Also, freakin' hard. It's limping along at present, but I don't think it's currently viable. It seems fairly clear that VorpX already fills this gap for people with VR headsets. Multiple people have posted that VorpX is terrific, so it's hardly worth trying to create another one. VorpX is also a good example of someone who can at least eke out a living doing 3D middleware. To answer the OP- it's still not impossible that this happens, but it's not going to be fast, and I think it is clear that it cannot be done with donations. Being a commercial product is the way to get people off the sidelines. In the meantime, we still have a viable way to game, and we can still fix AAA games until drivers start to get in the way. Dual booting will last indefinitely for the back catalog, and maybe we wind up settling for that. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.[/quote] My humble understanding of the above: Thanks kindly to the people who have responded, but we need 10x more people to have even one person to make developing our own driver viable. It's not impossible it won't otherwise, but generally, [color="orange"][b]it's not happening, folks.[/b][/color] However, in my humble opinion, using this thread to gauge funding is a flawed concept, as most people who will license the software will not reply to it - possibly by a factor of x100, if the earlier participation study is to be believed - e.g. the vast majority of people with a Rift are not on the rift forum. Most people with a Tesla are not on the Tesla forums. Most people with a GeForce graphics card are not on the GeForce forums. Driving the point home: If nvidia said tomorrow that they were stopping all GeForce products, and said development would only continue if users posted on their forum how much they would be willing to pay for new products if they were to be developed - there would be an extremely small response compared with the actual number of people who would go on to buy the newly developed GeForce cards. Further still, we are no doubt suffering from the bystander effect: [i][color="green"]The bystander effect, or bystander apathy, is a social psychological phenomenon in which individuals are less likely to offer help to a victim when other people are present. The greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that one of them will help. Several factors contribute to the bystander effect, including [b][u]ambiguity, group cohesiveness, and diffusion of responsibility that reinforces mutual denial of a situation's severity.[/u][/b][/color][/i] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect[/url] In my humble opinion: 1. We ought to setup a proper pledge where people actually pay the initial license fee and pledge to continue giving that fee. 2. We make it absolutely clear what the funding goal is, so people can see how much has been pledged vs. how much is remaining. 3. We make it clear that this is a last ditch effort - that if we don't reach the funding goal, [color="orange"][b]Development is simply not going to happen, and S3D will be truly dead going forward.[/b][/color] 4. Of course, the money will be returned if the goal is not reached, so it gives people both incentive and security. This will bring out everyone from the woodwork while we still have momentum and interest, and then we shall know where we stand as a community - Things will be clear for all of us, as expectations shall be set from both developers and the pledgers. If things don't pan out, we will know what the reason was: Funding. I think [url]https://www.indiegogo.com/[/url] does this kind of thing, though we might make an effort privately if thought to be a better alternative... ------- Personally speaking - if we all give it our best shot, maximise our potential, and then fail - I can live with that. We tried our absolute best, and that's something to be proud of. On the other hand, if we don't try to maximise our potential for success by not having clear goals; by not communicating with each other openly and saying frankly what needs to be said; by not having realistic targets; by not reaching out to the lurkers which comprise the majority of potential funding, with a high impact, 'do or die', easy to understand message, then that is a real shame - we would be doing our own selves, everyone in this amazing community, and our combined prospective future, a great disservice... Then we might only dream of what could have been. Someone smarter than me once said: The distance between "Dreams" and "Reality" is called "Action".
D-Man11 kindly created a thread which asked for DSS / bo3b's take so far. I felt that bo3b's response was too important to leave in that thread, so it is as below:

bo3b said:
D-Man11 said:Anyone have a guess as to how many supporters would be on board?

Certainly 100? I would think

200? I doubt it

How many do you think that we would need to be sustainable?

I think at least 500
This was actually part of my asking in the main thread about how many people might contribute and what they might feel is reasonable. Part of that was to try to get a rough feel for the level of support.

Everyone who posts here are pretty reasonable and willing to contribute far beyond what should be necessary. I think we all appreciate the comments from everyone, and the level of support.


But... my take is that we are just too few to make a difference here. To do this kind of work, it's going to take at least a full year of full-time effort from DarkStarSword, or 2 years of full-time effort from me. (Helifax could do this too, at 1 year of full-time effort) None of us can justify that level of time.

Back of the envelope calculation, we are off by an order of magnitude in terms of financial support. If everyone here donated to their maximum ability, we are in the very roughly $5,000 range. Full time engineering for people at our level pays roughly $200,000/year now. Even if we as engineers bite the bullet and go for low pay for something we want to work on, none of us could justify going below tight living expenses of roughly $50,000/year.

We are off by a factor of 10, and that's not a one-time price, that's a yearly price. This is why I was asking about a yearly fee as well. I do not think this can be done on a donation/patreon basis, there simply are not enough of us who care.


It's not impossible that we could make a go of it as a commercial product, where if you want to use it, you have to buy it. That gets people of the sidelines, and straight into the commercial aspect, where they are buying a product. Everyone understands this, and if we were the only game in town, we could conceivably get the 1,000 people at $50/year that it would take.


This was actually part of my goal with getting a VR TV out the door as a commercial product. Not that it itself would make money, but would provide direct feedback on how many VR people might be interested in 3D, if it were cheap. This is less sure today, because Oculus just prematurely destroyed the Rift side of the market. Also, freakin' hard. It's limping along at present, but I don't think it's currently viable.

It seems fairly clear that VorpX already fills this gap for people with VR headsets. Multiple people have posted that VorpX is terrific, so it's hardly worth trying to create another one. VorpX is also a good example of someone who can at least eke out a living doing 3D middleware.


To answer the OP- it's still not impossible that this happens, but it's not going to be fast, and I think it is clear that it cannot be done with donations. Being a commercial product is the way to get people off the sidelines.

In the meantime, we still have a viable way to game, and we can still fix AAA games until drivers start to get in the way. Dual booting will last indefinitely for the back catalog, and maybe we wind up settling for that. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.


My humble understanding of the above: Thanks kindly to the people who have responded, but we need 10x more people to have even one person to make developing our own driver viable. It's not impossible it won't otherwise, but generally, it's not happening, folks.

However, in my humble opinion, using this thread to gauge funding is a flawed concept, as most people who will license the software will not reply to it - possibly by a factor of x100, if the earlier participation study is to be believed - e.g. the vast majority of people with a Rift are not on the rift forum. Most people with a Tesla are not on the Tesla forums. Most people with a GeForce graphics card are not on the GeForce forums.

Driving the point home: If nvidia said tomorrow that they were stopping all GeForce products, and said development would only continue if users posted on their forum how much they would be willing to pay for new products if they were to be developed - there would be an extremely small response compared with the actual number of people who would go on to buy the newly developed GeForce cards.

Further still, we are no doubt suffering from the bystander effect:

The bystander effect, or bystander apathy, is a social psychological phenomenon in which individuals are less likely to offer help to a victim when other people are present. The greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that one of them will help. Several factors contribute to the bystander effect, including ambiguity, group cohesiveness, and diffusion of responsibility that reinforces mutual denial of a situation's severity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

In my humble opinion:

1. We ought to setup a proper pledge where people actually pay the initial license fee and pledge to continue giving that fee.

2. We make it absolutely clear what the funding goal is, so people can see how much has been pledged vs. how much is remaining.

3. We make it clear that this is a last ditch effort - that if we don't reach the funding goal, Development is simply not going to happen, and S3D will be truly dead going forward.

4. Of course, the money will be returned if the goal is not reached, so it gives people both incentive and security.


This will bring out everyone from the woodwork while we still have momentum and interest, and then we shall know where we stand as a community - Things will be clear for all of us, as expectations shall be set from both developers and the pledgers. If things don't pan out, we will know what the reason was: Funding.

I think https://www.indiegogo.com/ does this kind of thing, though we might make an effort privately if thought to be a better alternative...

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Personally speaking - if we all give it our best shot, maximise our potential, and then fail - I can live with that. We tried our absolute best, and that's something to be proud of.

On the other hand, if we don't try to maximise our potential for success by not having clear goals; by not communicating with each other openly and saying frankly what needs to be said; by not having realistic targets; by not reaching out to the lurkers which comprise the majority of potential funding, with a high impact, 'do or die', easy to understand message, then that is a real shame - we would be doing our own selves, everyone in this amazing community, and our combined prospective future, a great disservice... Then we might only dream of what could have been.

Someone smarter than me once said: The distance between "Dreams" and "Reality" is called "Action".

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 05/15/2019 06:19 PM   
I have no idea what the way is forward, I imagine there are several paths that could be taken. But I don't think I'm alone in thinking that we need to increase membership, whatever the endeavor. Or that if everyone takes a wait and see approach, their will eventually be nothing to see (literally). Currently, it looks like we'll get some more dx9/11 fixes for any game that works with the 418 driver branch. Then that's it, the end.... So then we play backlogs within the legacy 3D ecosystem and VR or 2D for anything new. Lets not forget that DSS has looked into dx12 and it's feasible, but not without more people.
I have no idea what the way is forward, I imagine there are several paths that could be taken.

But I don't think I'm alone in thinking that we need to increase membership, whatever the endeavor. Or that if everyone takes a wait and see approach, their will eventually be nothing to see (literally).

Currently, it looks like we'll get some more dx9/11 fixes for any game that works with the 418 driver branch. Then that's it, the end....

So then we play backlogs within the legacy 3D ecosystem and VR or 2D for anything new.

Lets not forget that DSS has looked into dx12 and it's feasible, but not without more people.

Posted 05/15/2019 08:55 PM   
My guess is we have at least 100, maybe even 200. So if 200 pay $20 a month, that comes to $48,000.00 dollars a year. Which is why I say we need 500, which then comes in at 120,000. This is just an example, some would be willing to contribute more per month some less. But nonetheless, there needs to be more people.
My guess is we have at least 100, maybe even 200.

So if 200 pay $20 a month, that comes to $48,000.00 dollars a year.

Which is why I say we need 500, which then comes in at 120,000.

This is just an example, some would be willing to contribute more per month some less. But nonetheless, there needs to be more people.

Posted 05/15/2019 09:07 PM   
imho let's try to keep this boat afloat for one more year, and then maybe this will help for a 3d comeback, it looks that the incoming 3d tech is going to be really good: https://movieweb.com/avatar-2-3d-technology-updates-james-cameron/
imho let's try to keep this boat afloat for one more year, and then maybe this will help for a 3d comeback, it looks that the incoming 3d tech is going to be really good: https://movieweb.com/avatar-2-3d-technology-updates-james-cameron/

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

Posted 05/15/2019 09:34 PM   
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