This is a bit of an experiment as much as anything else, but since the topic of donations does tend to come up every couple of months I've decided to set up a Patreon page and see what happens:
https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword
I know that there are modders in other communities using patreon, and it seems like a reasonable fit. I opted for the monthly option since a lot of what I do is behind the scenes and not every substantial piece of work I do is something I could really call a fix. Unfortunately there is no one off option other than to cancel the pledge after a month - hopefully they will add that at some stage.
This doesn't change anything about how or what I work on - I work on whatever takes my interest as usual and all my fixes will still be free on the blog. I have not set up any special rewards for patrons - sometimes creators set up previews of their work for patrons, but I already have that in my 3d-fixes repository on github, which will remain the first place whatever I'm working on goes before it's ready for the blog.
I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixers in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.
What are people's thoughts on the matter? Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent?
If anyone has any objections please raise them as well - either on this thread or by private message. I don't want to do anything to alienate any of the other fixers if they feel like I'm getting paid and they are not (although I have my doubts that this would ever amount to anything substantial).
Edit: The discussion moved on to the topic of posting links to the donation page on the blog - at the moment I am not planning to do this, as I think it's too ambiguous and potentially misleading or unfair. For now I am only intending to post the link when someone asks directly, or on places that are clearly attributed to me personally like my personal website and forum signature.
So there is no confusion, [color="orange"][b]if you use some of my work in a fix you are free to attribute me, but DO NOT link to my donation page - it's simply too ambiguous and unfair to do otherwise.[/b][/color]
This is a bit of an experiment as much as anything else, but since the topic of donations does tend to come up every couple of months I've decided to set up a Patreon page and see what happens:
https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword
I know that there are modders in other communities using patreon, and it seems like a reasonable fit. I opted for the monthly option since a lot of what I do is behind the scenes and not every substantial piece of work I do is something I could really call a fix. Unfortunately there is no one off option other than to cancel the pledge after a month - hopefully they will add that at some stage.
This doesn't change anything about how or what I work on - I work on whatever takes my interest as usual and all my fixes will still be free on the blog. I have not set up any special rewards for patrons - sometimes creators set up previews of their work for patrons, but I already have that in my 3d-fixes repository on github, which will remain the first place whatever I'm working on goes before it's ready for the blog.
I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixers in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.
What are people's thoughts on the matter? Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent?
If anyone has any objections please raise them as well - either on this thread or by private message. I don't want to do anything to alienate any of the other fixers if they feel like I'm getting paid and they are not (although I have my doubts that this would ever amount to anything substantial).
Edit: The discussion moved on to the topic of posting links to the donation page on the blog - at the moment I am not planning to do this, as I think it's too ambiguous and potentially misleading or unfair. For now I am only intending to post the link when someone asks directly, or on places that are clearly attributed to me personally like my personal website and forum signature.
So there is no confusion, if you use some of my work in a fix you are free to attribute me, but DO NOT link to my donation page - it's simply too ambiguous and unfair to do otherwise.
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I'm convinced this is a very good idea since i believe many of us would like to encourage your work. Though i am not sure of how to monetize it. Not all of us can buy u a game (actually, the only one can do). And if everyone just "sacrifices" you a dollar, you may become too happy and rich for making fixes, the others could consider it a bit unfairly, and the whole settled society of "fixers" might be damaged. Just imagine everyone would buy you a different game )) and everyone will be asking "where is my fix ?". So in my opinion you should all (active fixers) unite and recieve donates, no matter who is involved in a certain game. This could motivate all of u still with no responsibility and hurry for making fixes, just as always.
P.S. the idea of personal donating i like too
I'm convinced this is a very good idea since i believe many of us would like to encourage your work. Though i am not sure of how to monetize it. Not all of us can buy u a game (actually, the only one can do). And if everyone just "sacrifices" you a dollar, you may become too happy and rich for making fixes, the others could consider it a bit unfairly, and the whole settled society of "fixers" might be damaged. Just imagine everyone would buy you a different game )) and everyone will be asking "where is my fix ?". So in my opinion you should all (active fixers) unite and recieve donates, no matter who is involved in a certain game. This could motivate all of u still with no responsibility and hurry for making fixes, just as always.
3Dmigoto was created by Chiri who passed whole development to bo3b who managed with mike_ar69 achieve advanced level and create lots of game fixes. They refused to take any money or gratification for theirs involvement. Helifax created he`s own tool for OpenGL games and he helped a lot of Us during fixing process. He also refuse to take any money for it. Helix himself gave strong statement that he won`t be even discussing this kind of repay for he`s input to this community.
I think that there is so many contributors right now and every single one of them is doing great work only if they want to (not treating this as a job) - that it will be really difficult to establish who is more important and deserve to get any gratification.
I am making point that this is straight way to put some walls between Us.
3Dmigoto was created by Chiri who passed whole development to bo3b who managed with mike_ar69 achieve advanced level and create lots of game fixes. They refused to take any money or gratification for theirs involvement. Helifax created he`s own tool for OpenGL games and he helped a lot of Us during fixing process. He also refuse to take any money for it. Helix himself gave strong statement that he won`t be even discussing this kind of repay for he`s input to this community.
I think that there is so many contributors right now and every single one of them is doing great work only if they want to (not treating this as a job) - that it will be really difficult to establish who is more important and deserve to get any gratification.
I am making point that this is straight way to put some walls between Us.
I use to be part of X-Sim community. The guy who created main tool (ManWithNoName) left that all just because everybody start treating this as a good business. From site dedicated to creative people who like to work with what they enjoy whole community change to business model with multiple rip-offs of the same thing.
Community collapsed in a few months, separating people from each other and at this point there is a few developers who charge a lot of money for "their" product.
We don`t know how big this community gonna be after whole VR expansion and how that will benefit Us. Also DX12 suppose to bring Us easier way to achieve 3D support so We don`t even know if in the future we going to need any tool to deal with games. Maybe VR support and DX12 will make 3D natural choice for developers. Wishful thinking ? Maybe - but I am hoping that this community will survive in untouched form.
I use to be part of X-Sim community. The guy who created main tool (ManWithNoName) left that all just because everybody start treating this as a good business. From site dedicated to creative people who like to work with what they enjoy whole community change to business model with multiple rip-offs of the same thing.
Community collapsed in a few months, separating people from each other and at this point there is a few developers who charge a lot of money for "their" product.
We don`t know how big this community gonna be after whole VR expansion and how that will benefit Us. Also DX12 suppose to bring Us easier way to achieve 3D support so We don`t even know if in the future we going to need any tool to deal with games. Maybe VR support and DX12 will make 3D natural choice for developers. Wishful thinking ? Maybe - but I am hoping that this community will survive in untouched form.
I will gladly support you - and the other fixers aswell :)
I can't tell you how much it Means to me, to be able to download a new fix for one of my favorite games, and I wouldn't hesitate to make a donation, whith the selfish goal to encourage you to continue your Work on the 3D scene.
I know you're bying games, more or less just to fix it...
Butt.. I share mistersvin's concern about supporting only [b]one[/b] of you Guys..
Before I throw any Money on your Patreon page, I really would like to know, How will our other great fixers react to this ?
I will gladly support you - and the other fixers aswell :)
I can't tell you how much it Means to me, to be able to download a new fix for one of my favorite games, and I wouldn't hesitate to make a donation, whith the selfish goal to encourage you to continue your Work on the 3D scene.
I know you're bying games, more or less just to fix it...
Butt.. I share mistersvin's concern about supporting only one of you Guys..
Before I throw any Money on your Patreon page, I really would like to know, How will our other great fixers react to this ?
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This is more like getting everybody for a beer end telling them how much you appreciate theirs work. Instead we getting a contest - who`s doing the best and deserve more.
I really doubt that this is someone`s only job and he`s income rely on this. I think we got some kind of great situation when everybody want to join others and help to get a game fix done right. For a long time this wasn`t one person effort but community involvement. Plenty times fixers themselves been supported by other players and fixing something according to theirs suggestions.
How much of a good will you gonna get after you make others feel like there is someone being "paid-off".
This is more like getting everybody for a beer end telling them how much you appreciate theirs work. Instead we getting a contest - who`s doing the best and deserve more.
I really doubt that this is someone`s only job and he`s income rely on this. I think we got some kind of great situation when everybody want to join others and help to get a game fix done right. For a long time this wasn`t one person effort but community involvement. Plenty times fixers themselves been supported by other players and fixing something according to theirs suggestions.
How much of a good will you gonna get after you make others feel like there is someone being "paid-off".
With the intention of being 'constructive' and not 'critical', I make the following comments. You've done fantastic work for sure, but I agree with SKAUT you run the risk of introducing ambiguity and confusion over who is doing what, as happened with another contributor earlier this year who insisted on getting paid. My worldview on this has always been that this is an opportunity to give back to the community, and I feel 'rewarded' knowing that people use the fixes and give nice feedback (hopefully). Maybe I am just a bit of a hippy, I was afterall born in 1969 ;-) That being said, the line I have drawn for myself is that I won't get involved in these "payment" schemes because they are just too complicated and ambiguous and frankly unfair, however I *have* accepted specific steam game gifts from people, with clarity of expectations.
With the intention of being 'constructive' and not 'critical', I make the following comments. You've done fantastic work for sure, but I agree with SKAUT you run the risk of introducing ambiguity and confusion over who is doing what, as happened with another contributor earlier this year who insisted on getting paid. My worldview on this has always been that this is an opportunity to give back to the community, and I feel 'rewarded' knowing that people use the fixes and give nice feedback (hopefully). Maybe I am just a bit of a hippy, I was afterall born in 1969 ;-) That being said, the line I have drawn for myself is that I won't get involved in these "payment" schemes because they are just too complicated and ambiguous and frankly unfair, however I *have* accepted specific steam game gifts from people, with clarity of expectations.
[quote="SKAUT"]3Dmigoto was created by Chiri [/quote]
Chiri and (don't forget) elbarterino, launched their dx11 wrapper for Bioshock Infinite on INDIEGOGO https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/put-to-sleep#/
When they first posted this, the first reaction was that it was likely some type of scam/cash grab.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/548507/
solutiongaming added credibility because at the time only a few had even heard of chiri before, but everyone knew solutiongaming.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/549473/
Even once credibility was added to the wrapper, everyone was incredulous that they would develop the wrapper further on a per game basis with further donations.
They then abandoned Indiegogo and accepted PayPal donations via a website that they made for the wrapper and also began to work on Assassin' Creed 3
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/572271/
Part of the skepticism was because Helix had mentioned that he would develop a dx11 wrapper, but no one had heard from him. Then one day Schmeltzer saw a new photo on the 3D Vision Live site.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/570351/
Now all the attention seemed to turn to -=HeliX=- https://forums.geforce.com/member/1867809/
and his wrapper.
I'm not sure about what happened behind the scenes, but bo3b, mike_ar69 and eqzitara were hosting and testing Chiri's wrapper. (plus others)
I think the combination of PayPal donations and talks between bo3b, mike_ar69 and eqzitara, convinced chiri and elbarterino to release the source code to the community.
So many many thanks to chiri, elbaterino, bo3b, eqzitara, mike_ar69, -=HeliX=- and the others that got the ball rolling forDirectX 11.
Also many many thanks to all of the people that have picked up the torch and carried it forth to get it to where it is today., as well as to all of the people that previously carried the torch, whether it be dx9,dx10, dx11 or OpenGL.
So...what am I going on about? There's absolutely no reason to give DarkStarSword any grief about making voluntary donations to himself possible.
Looking back, ALL OF US should be able to clearly see that chiri knew the amount of "work" that lay ahead and that their asking for money for his and elbarterino's valuable time was their prerogative.
They were very busy with other things, jobs, family, etc...
There has been a huge amount of work, by multiple people that has happened since that time as well as prior to it.
We should all count our Blessings, that 3D Vision is as good as it is currently due to members of the community sacrificing precious time out of their day to day lives for whatever reason that drives them freely or monetarily.
So thanks again to everyone past, present and future, that contributes to Stereoscopic gaming in whatever capacity that might be.
Even once credibility was added to the wrapper, everyone was incredulous that they would develop the wrapper further on a per game basis with further donations.
They then abandoned Indiegogo and accepted PayPal donations via a website that they made for the wrapper and also began to work on Assassin' Creed 3
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/572271/
Part of the skepticism was because Helix had mentioned that he would develop a dx11 wrapper, but no one had heard from him. Then one day Schmeltzer saw a new photo on the 3D Vision Live site.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/570351/
I'm not sure about what happened behind the scenes, but bo3b, mike_ar69 and eqzitara were hosting and testing Chiri's wrapper. (plus others)
I think the combination of PayPal donations and talks between bo3b, mike_ar69 and eqzitara, convinced chiri and elbarterino to release the source code to the community.
So many many thanks to chiri, elbaterino, bo3b, eqzitara, mike_ar69, -=HeliX=- and the others that got the ball rolling forDirectX 11.
Also many many thanks to all of the people that have picked up the torch and carried it forth to get it to where it is today., as well as to all of the people that previously carried the torch, whether it be dx9,dx10, dx11 or OpenGL.
So...what am I going on about? There's absolutely no reason to give DarkStarSword any grief about making voluntary donations to himself possible.
Looking back, ALL OF US should be able to clearly see that chiri knew the amount of "work" that lay ahead and that their asking for money for his and elbarterino's valuable time was their prerogative.
They were very busy with other things, jobs, family, etc...
There has been a huge amount of work, by multiple people that has happened since that time as well as prior to it.
We should all count our Blessings, that 3D Vision is as good as it is currently due to members of the community sacrificing precious time out of their day to day lives for whatever reason that drives them freely or monetarily.
So thanks again to everyone past, present and future, that contributes to Stereoscopic gaming in whatever capacity that might be.
@Skaut
Helifax accepts donations.
Flugan accept donations.
There a Steam account setup to donate games for distribution amongst fixers.
This hasn't ruined anything so far.
Donations are "voluntary"
I think it's perfectly fine for me, many times i feel guilty for not being able to give back something in exchange for so many games fixed that make a huge difference while playing from 2d and 3d, and I get hundreds of hours of 3d gaming for free. DarkStarSword is incredibly talented and its a privilege to have him fixing games for free, and frequently I fear he will just get tired and leave, like so many other 3d modders. I encourage to anyone looking for some monetary reward to do the same.
This topic is always quite sensitive and I understand it. Imho maybe the well known 3d modders here should join together and make a kickstarter for development support yearly. No promises, no compromises, just to show some support and each one would get an equal share of the total amount. Just throwing some ideas.
I think it's perfectly fine for me, many times i feel guilty for not being able to give back something in exchange for so many games fixed that make a huge difference while playing from 2d and 3d, and I get hundreds of hours of 3d gaming for free. DarkStarSword is incredibly talented and its a privilege to have him fixing games for free, and frequently I fear he will just get tired and leave, like so many other 3d modders. I encourage to anyone looking for some monetary reward to do the same.
This topic is always quite sensitive and I understand it. Imho maybe the well known 3d modders here should join together and make a kickstarter for development support yearly. No promises, no compromises, just to show some support and each one would get an equal share of the total amount. Just throwing some ideas.
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
I agree with everyone here;)
I for one am really amazed by the work DarkStarSword has done over the years and all the information and depth he has into stereo 3D.
Like D-Man11 said, I accepted donations in the past because people asked me how they can donate and if they can donate. I never asked for anything in return and they also didn't ask anything in return;) Like "mama" always said, is not polite to refuse a person when wants to make a gift ^_^.
I for one will back-up DarkStarSword! Without his help and COMMITMENT we wouldn't have so many awesome games fixed so far! (and the list is huge and impressive! Just think about Witcher 3, Mad Max and others. Sure he didn't made the fixes themselves but he helped developing the wrapper and adding new features and so on!).
Also he states clearly, that all the donations will go into buying new games;) (that will get a fix sooner or later.) So, why all the hate? In the end it comes back to us;)
Consider it a tiny investment;))
In any case, you may or may not agree with me but I plan to back him up on this;)
I agree with everyone here;)
I for one am really amazed by the work DarkStarSword has done over the years and all the information and depth he has into stereo 3D.
Like D-Man11 said, I accepted donations in the past because people asked me how they can donate and if they can donate. I never asked for anything in return and they also didn't ask anything in return;) Like "mama" always said, is not polite to refuse a person when wants to make a gift ^_^.
I for one will back-up DarkStarSword! Without his help and COMMITMENT we wouldn't have so many awesome games fixed so far! (and the list is huge and impressive! Just think about Witcher 3, Mad Max and others. Sure he didn't made the fixes themselves but he helped developing the wrapper and adding new features and so on!).
Also he states clearly, that all the donations will go into buying new games;) (that will get a fix sooner or later.) So, why all the hate? In the end it comes back to us;)
Consider it a tiny investment;))
In any case, you may or may not agree with me but I plan to back him up on this;)
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I think that mike_ar69, is referencing Flugan's thread, which was somewhat awkward. But in hindsight, some of it can clearly be written of to his ongoing bought with depression/mental illness. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/794978/
@mike_ar69
I can not thank you and others enough for the time you have given.
Happy Holidays to all
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me7d6seSpz1rjzuwpo1_1280.jpg[/img]
I think that mike_ar69, is referencing Flugan's thread, which was somewhat awkward. But in hindsight, some of it can clearly be written of to his ongoing bought with depression/mental illness. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/794978/
@mike_ar69
I can not thank you and others enough for the time you have given.
I am definitely on the end of the consumer of impressive and amazing fixes. I have not the skill (my work has nothing to do with design or informatics) to fully understand how to even fix my own DX9 game, even if the help of the community with guides, posts, etc. is amazing and one day I will achieve it. So I like to give back by gifting a game, by donating. It feels right. But I also see the sensible issue, others were talking about... however, DarkStarSword is doing great work and I will and like to pay you monetary respect. Thank you also to all the other great modders. :)
I am definitely on the end of the consumer of impressive and amazing fixes. I have not the skill (my work has nothing to do with design or informatics) to fully understand how to even fix my own DX9 game, even if the help of the community with guides, posts, etc. is amazing and one day I will achieve it. So I like to give back by gifting a game, by donating. It feels right. But I also see the sensible issue, others were talking about... however, DarkStarSword is doing great work and I will and like to pay you monetary respect. Thank you also to all the other great modders. :)
[quote="DarkStarSword"]I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixes in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.[/quote]
I'm totally agree with those 2 concerns you have.
For the first one, sadly there are a few people or new people in the community that may not think that way, and can be a problem, because you or another modder get tired of the situation and never post a fix again...and THAT will be a big loss for the community.
For the second one (and also the first one), i think the best donation model will be to put a donation button in the end of each post/fix in the blog, if the fix is made by 2 or 3 modders, well you put 2 and 3 donation button for each modder involve, so is up to people that use the fix to donate and distribute the donation in the modders that are involve in a particular fix....but with a released fix.
DarkStarSword said:I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixes in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.
I'm totally agree with those 2 concerns you have.
For the first one, sadly there are a few people or new people in the community that may not think that way, and can be a problem, because you or another modder get tired of the situation and never post a fix again...and THAT will be a big loss for the community.
For the second one (and also the first one), i think the best donation model will be to put a donation button in the end of each post/fix in the blog, if the fix is made by 2 or 3 modders, well you put 2 and 3 donation button for each modder involve, so is up to people that use the fix to donate and distribute the donation in the modders that are involve in a particular fix....but with a released fix.
[quote="DHR"][quote="DarkStarSword"]I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixes in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.[/quote]
I'm totally agree with those 2 concerns you have.
For the first one, sadly there are a few people or new people in the community that may not think that way, and can be a problem, because you or another modder get tired of the situation and never post a fix again...and THAT will be a big loss for the community.
For the second one (and also the first one), i think the best donation model will be to put a donation button in the end of each post/fix in the blog, if the fix is made by 2 or 3 modders, well you put 2 and 3 donation button for each modder involve, so is up to people that use the fix to donate and distribute the donation in the modders that are involve in a particular fix....but with a released fix.[/quote]
For the most part, I also agree with this, but I also get DSS's point about how a lot of his work is not as readily apparent, as it's done on developing the tool itself and not as much of the fixes (although, you've done stellar work in that area! Imagine if this monetization setup was already in place for your Cryengine fixes? You rightfully should have been rewarded for cracking that nut on your own). I think that, in addition to DHR's suggestion, maybe put up a donate button on the download page for the tool itself for, and with mention of, the contributors (perhaps a detailed breakdown within an update log on the same page). I guess this is where things start getting a little complex to manage and figure out, but I think that anyone whom is smart enough to download and use the tool and these fixes should be smart enough to figure these things out.
DarkStarSword said:I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixes in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.
I'm totally agree with those 2 concerns you have.
For the first one, sadly there are a few people or new people in the community that may not think that way, and can be a problem, because you or another modder get tired of the situation and never post a fix again...and THAT will be a big loss for the community.
For the second one (and also the first one), i think the best donation model will be to put a donation button in the end of each post/fix in the blog, if the fix is made by 2 or 3 modders, well you put 2 and 3 donation button for each modder involve, so is up to people that use the fix to donate and distribute the donation in the modders that are involve in a particular fix....but with a released fix.
For the most part, I also agree with this, but I also get DSS's point about how a lot of his work is not as readily apparent, as it's done on developing the tool itself and not as much of the fixes (although, you've done stellar work in that area! Imagine if this monetization setup was already in place for your Cryengine fixes? You rightfully should have been rewarded for cracking that nut on your own). I think that, in addition to DHR's suggestion, maybe put up a donate button on the download page for the tool itself for, and with mention of, the contributors (perhaps a detailed breakdown within an update log on the same page). I guess this is where things start getting a little complex to manage and figure out, but I think that anyone whom is smart enough to download and use the tool and these fixes should be smart enough to figure these things out.
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https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword
I know that there are modders in other communities using patreon, and it seems like a reasonable fit. I opted for the monthly option since a lot of what I do is behind the scenes and not every substantial piece of work I do is something I could really call a fix. Unfortunately there is no one off option other than to cancel the pledge after a month - hopefully they will add that at some stage.
This doesn't change anything about how or what I work on - I work on whatever takes my interest as usual and all my fixes will still be free on the blog. I have not set up any special rewards for patrons - sometimes creators set up previews of their work for patrons, but I already have that in my 3d-fixes repository on github, which will remain the first place whatever I'm working on goes before it's ready for the blog.
I want to be a little bit careful with this, and I have two major concerns that I've tried to make clear on the page:
- This is not to pay me to fix your favorite game
- My name is on the blog a lot, but I'm only one of the fixers in the community and I don't want people donating to me thinking they are donating to the community as a whole or for something that somebody else did.
What are people's thoughts on the matter? Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent?
If anyone has any objections please raise them as well - either on this thread or by private message. I don't want to do anything to alienate any of the other fixers if they feel like I'm getting paid and they are not (although I have my doubts that this would ever amount to anything substantial).
Edit: The discussion moved on to the topic of posting links to the donation page on the blog - at the moment I am not planning to do this, as I think it's too ambiguous and potentially misleading or unfair. For now I am only intending to post the link when someone asks directly, or on places that are clearly attributed to me personally like my personal website and forum signature.
So there is no confusion, if you use some of my work in a fix you are free to attribute me, but DO NOT link to my donation page - it's simply too ambiguous and unfair to do otherwise.
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Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword
P.S. the idea of personal donating i like too
I think that there is so many contributors right now and every single one of them is doing great work only if they want to (not treating this as a job) - that it will be really difficult to establish who is more important and deserve to get any gratification.
I am making point that this is straight way to put some walls between Us.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014296177/
Community collapsed in a few months, separating people from each other and at this point there is a few developers who charge a lot of money for "their" product.
We don`t know how big this community gonna be after whole VR expansion and how that will benefit Us. Also DX12 suppose to bring Us easier way to achieve 3D support so We don`t even know if in the future we going to need any tool to deal with games. Maybe VR support and DX12 will make 3D natural choice for developers. Wishful thinking ? Maybe - but I am hoping that this community will survive in untouched form.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014296177/
I can't tell you how much it Means to me, to be able to download a new fix for one of my favorite games, and I wouldn't hesitate to make a donation, whith the selfish goal to encourage you to continue your Work on the 3D scene.
I know you're bying games, more or less just to fix it...
Butt.. I share mistersvin's concern about supporting only one of you Guys..
Before I throw any Money on your Patreon page, I really would like to know, How will our other great fixers react to this ?
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I really doubt that this is someone`s only job and he`s income rely on this. I think we got some kind of great situation when everybody want to join others and help to get a game fix done right. For a long time this wasn`t one person effort but community involvement. Plenty times fixers themselves been supported by other players and fixing something according to theirs suggestions.
How much of a good will you gonna get after you make others feel like there is someone being "paid-off".
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014296177/
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Chiri and (don't forget) elbarterino, launched their dx11 wrapper for Bioshock Infinite on INDIEGOGO https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/put-to-sleep#/
When they first posted this, the first reaction was that it was likely some type of scam/cash grab.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/548507/
solutiongaming added credibility because at the time only a few had even heard of chiri before, but everyone knew solutiongaming.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/549473/
Even once credibility was added to the wrapper, everyone was incredulous that they would develop the wrapper further on a per game basis with further donations.
They then abandoned Indiegogo and accepted PayPal donations via a website that they made for the wrapper and also began to work on Assassin' Creed 3
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/572271/
Part of the skepticism was because Helix had mentioned that he would develop a dx11 wrapper, but no one had heard from him. Then one day Schmeltzer saw a new photo on the 3D Vision Live site.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/570351/
Now all the attention seemed to turn to -=HeliX=- https://forums.geforce.com/member/1867809/
and his wrapper.
I'm not sure about what happened behind the scenes, but bo3b, mike_ar69 and eqzitara were hosting and testing Chiri's wrapper. (plus others)
I think the combination of PayPal donations and talks between bo3b, mike_ar69 and eqzitara, convinced chiri and elbarterino to release the source code to the community.
So many many thanks to chiri, elbaterino, bo3b, eqzitara, mike_ar69, -=HeliX=- and the others that got the ball rolling forDirectX 11.
Also many many thanks to all of the people that have picked up the torch and carried it forth to get it to where it is today., as well as to all of the people that previously carried the torch, whether it be dx9,dx10, dx11 or OpenGL.
So...what am I going on about? There's absolutely no reason to give DarkStarSword any grief about making voluntary donations to himself possible.
Looking back, ALL OF US should be able to clearly see that chiri knew the amount of "work" that lay ahead and that their asking for money for his and elbarterino's valuable time was their prerogative.
They were very busy with other things, jobs, family, etc...
There has been a huge amount of work, by multiple people that has happened since that time as well as prior to it.
We should all count our Blessings, that 3D Vision is as good as it is currently due to members of the community sacrificing precious time out of their day to day lives for whatever reason that drives them freely or monetarily.
So thanks again to everyone past, present and future, that contributes to Stereoscopic gaming in whatever capacity that might be.
Helifax accepts donations.
Flugan accept donations.
There a Steam account setup to donate games for distribution amongst fixers.
This hasn't ruined anything so far.
Donations are "voluntary"
This topic is always quite sensitive and I understand it. Imho maybe the well known 3d modders here should join together and make a kickstarter for development support yearly. No promises, no compromises, just to show some support and each one would get an equal share of the total amount. Just throwing some ideas.
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
I for one am really amazed by the work DarkStarSword has done over the years and all the information and depth he has into stereo 3D.
Like D-Man11 said, I accepted donations in the past because people asked me how they can donate and if they can donate. I never asked for anything in return and they also didn't ask anything in return;) Like "mama" always said, is not polite to refuse a person when wants to make a gift ^_^.
I for one will back-up DarkStarSword! Without his help and COMMITMENT we wouldn't have so many awesome games fixed so far! (and the list is huge and impressive! Just think about Witcher 3, Mad Max and others. Sure he didn't made the fixes themselves but he helped developing the wrapper and adding new features and so on!).
Also he states clearly, that all the donations will go into buying new games;) (that will get a fix sooner or later.) So, why all the hate? In the end it comes back to us;)
Consider it a tiny investment;))
In any case, you may or may not agree with me but I plan to back him up on this;)
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etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
@mike_ar69
I can not thank you and others enough for the time you have given.
Happy Holidays to all
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I'm totally agree with those 2 concerns you have.
For the first one, sadly there are a few people or new people in the community that may not think that way, and can be a problem, because you or another modder get tired of the situation and never post a fix again...and THAT will be a big loss for the community.
For the second one (and also the first one), i think the best donation model will be to put a donation button in the end of each post/fix in the blog, if the fix is made by 2 or 3 modders, well you put 2 and 3 donation button for each modder involve, so is up to people that use the fix to donate and distribute the donation in the modders that are involve in a particular fix....but with a released fix.
MY WEB
Helix Mod - Making 3D Better
My 3D Screenshot Gallery
Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com
For the most part, I also agree with this, but I also get DSS's point about how a lot of his work is not as readily apparent, as it's done on developing the tool itself and not as much of the fixes (although, you've done stellar work in that area! Imagine if this monetization setup was already in place for your Cryengine fixes? You rightfully should have been rewarded for cracking that nut on your own). I think that, in addition to DHR's suggestion, maybe put up a donate button on the download page for the tool itself for, and with mention of, the contributors (perhaps a detailed breakdown within an update log on the same page). I guess this is where things start getting a little complex to manage and figure out, but I think that anyone whom is smart enough to download and use the tool and these fixes should be smart enough to figure these things out.
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Like my fixes? Dontations can be made to: www.paypal.me/DShanz or rshannonca@gmail.com
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