Elsa 3D Revelator Flicker problem
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Hello

I have Elsa 3d glasses. If i run game my glasses flicker every 5-6 seconds. :(
I have installed 162.50 Graphics drivers and 162.50 Stereo drivers.
Of Course i have set 120hz refresh. HELP!!

Sorry for my bad English :">
Hello



I have Elsa 3d glasses. If i run game my glasses flicker every 5-6 seconds. :(

I have installed 162.50 Graphics drivers and 162.50 Stereo drivers.

Of Course i have set 120hz refresh. HELP!!



Sorry for my bad English :">

#1
Posted 01/26/2008 08:42 PM   
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#2
Posted 01/27/2008 11:51 AM   
But if I change refresh to higher rate (for example from 85hz to 120hz) flicker is in the same rate. It exist even 5-6 seconds and sometimes it exist even 1-2 seconds.
It looks like left and right eye see their image at SAME time. /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' /> Left and right lens is opened at same time for quarter of second.
But if I change refresh to higher rate (for example from 85hz to 120hz) flicker is in the same rate. It exist even 5-6 seconds and sometimes it exist even 1-2 seconds.

It looks like left and right eye see their image at SAME time. /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' /> Left and right lens is opened at same time for quarter of second.

#3
Posted 01/27/2008 02:07 PM   
Now now fellas... Both of you are talking about a different kind of flicker.

We used to have a forum at stereovision.net which had detailed threads about this issue.

Net12. Try removing or grounding pin12 on your monitor. Also make sure that your graphics card or your sound card is NOT sharing an IRQ with anything else. If you have an older system, you can try increasing the PCI latency of the graphics and sound card to 248 using something like powerstrip. Or you could try disabling your sound altogether to see if that helps.

Google how to do these things as it would take an essay to list them all again. Sorry but this flicker is a common issue. And what makes it worse is people who dont get the flicker thinking you are referring to low refresh ratres and try to help but unfortunately end up complicating matters.

Oruq, you are talking about the low refresh rate flicker. At 100Hz+ you shouldn't notice any flicker.
Now now fellas... Both of you are talking about a different kind of flicker.



We used to have a forum at stereovision.net which had detailed threads about this issue.



Net12. Try removing or grounding pin12 on your monitor. Also make sure that your graphics card or your sound card is NOT sharing an IRQ with anything else. If you have an older system, you can try increasing the PCI latency of the graphics and sound card to 248 using something like powerstrip. Or you could try disabling your sound altogether to see if that helps.



Google how to do these things as it would take an essay to list them all again. Sorry but this flicker is a common issue. And what makes it worse is people who dont get the flicker thinking you are referring to low refresh ratres and try to help but unfortunately end up complicating matters.



Oruq, you are talking about the low refresh rate flicker. At 100Hz+ you shouldn't notice any flicker.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#4
Posted 01/27/2008 04:32 PM   
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#5
Posted 01/27/2008 08:41 PM   
Oruq, seriously mate, please stop. You are trying to pick arguments with me for no reason now.

You claim to have done the research but clearly you haven't.

2D LCD monitors don't work in stereo page flipping because the response time is too slow.

As for CRT, I don't think you know how it works. If you are actually in fact seeing a lot of refresh rate related flicker at 100Hz+ then no offense but I think something is wrong with your eyes or the way your mind processes those stereo images. Or maybe your monitor is broken.

The brain doesn't do all the work. Your retina acts as "phosphor" and retains the image from each blink of the glasses granted the refresh is high enough.

The only reason CRT isn't good for stereo is because of ghosting if it can do 100Hz+. The flicker virtually has no part to play in it. Most people can't see noticeable stereo flicker above 85Hz.

This is just getting petty... /ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />
Oruq, seriously mate, please stop. You are trying to pick arguments with me for no reason now.



You claim to have done the research but clearly you haven't.



2D LCD monitors don't work in stereo page flipping because the response time is too slow.



As for CRT, I don't think you know how it works. If you are actually in fact seeing a lot of refresh rate related flicker at 100Hz+ then no offense but I think something is wrong with your eyes or the way your mind processes those stereo images. Or maybe your monitor is broken.



The brain doesn't do all the work. Your retina acts as "phosphor" and retains the image from each blink of the glasses granted the refresh is high enough.



The only reason CRT isn't good for stereo is because of ghosting if it can do 100Hz+. The flicker virtually has no part to play in it. Most people can't see noticeable stereo flicker above 85Hz.



This is just getting petty... /ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#6
Posted 01/27/2008 09:00 PM   
I get that flicker when I watch high res. 3D videos only. So I suspect it is something in my computer that can't keep up the pace although I have 2Gb of RAM and a 7900GT card. I don't get it with low res. 3D videos or when gaming.
I get that flicker when I watch high res. 3D videos only. So I suspect it is something in my computer that can't keep up the pace although I have 2Gb of RAM and a 7900GT card. I don't get it with low res. 3D videos or when gaming.

#7
Posted 01/27/2008 09:01 PM   
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#8
Posted 01/27/2008 09:10 PM   
:rolleyes:

"To put it in simple terms, the refresh rate of your monitor will have to be in sync with the refresh rate of your brain. Otherwise, you will always have some flicker. How often you see and perceive that flicker is individual."


Sorry matey but my brain's bullcrap detecting meter is setting off alarms. Brain's refresh rate? Synchronizing glasses flicker with it?

Where on earth did you ever get that idea? /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />

Brains don't have refresh rates. They are not computers.

The reason that we see flicker with shutter glasses is because the brain can see individual black and clear images. Upping this frequency turns the colour and black images into a blur and hence you cannot see them individually anymore. What you now see is the image but only darker (~75% darker IIRC).

It's like when you see a bicycle wheel. When moving slow, you can see all the spokes. When it moves faster, it becomes a blur, the spokes blur into the colour and the mind receives it as all one image. It is impossible now for the brain to differentiate between the spokes.

The same thing happens when the refresh rate is high enough... say 100Hz+.

Syncing with brain refresh rate indeed /haha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':haha:' />
:rolleyes:



"To put it in simple terms, the refresh rate of your monitor will have to be in sync with the refresh rate of your brain. Otherwise, you will always have some flicker. How often you see and perceive that flicker is individual."





Sorry matey but my brain's bullcrap detecting meter is setting off alarms. Brain's refresh rate? Synchronizing glasses flicker with it?



Where on earth did you ever get that idea? /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />



Brains don't have refresh rates. They are not computers.



The reason that we see flicker with shutter glasses is because the brain can see individual black and clear images. Upping this frequency turns the colour and black images into a blur and hence you cannot see them individually anymore. What you now see is the image but only darker (~75% darker IIRC).



It's like when you see a bicycle wheel. When moving slow, you can see all the spokes. When it moves faster, it becomes a blur, the spokes blur into the colour and the mind receives it as all one image. It is impossible now for the brain to differentiate between the spokes.



The same thing happens when the refresh rate is high enough... say 100Hz+.



Syncing with brain refresh rate indeed /haha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':haha:' />

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#9
Posted 01/27/2008 09:20 PM   
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#10
Posted 01/27/2008 09:31 PM   
Sorry but I beg to differ.

According to your logic, 120Hz would be preceived to be more flickery "on average" than 100Hz. Sorry, but that is nonsense.

I don't know what kind of retro experiment you are referring to about the 24fps thing, but I assure you: People can see far and away beyond this frequency of fps.

Take computer gaming for example. There is a massive difference between 25FPS and 50FPS. Even 50FPs and 100FPS. A lot of pro gamers use 120FPS as even 100 isn't fast enough. It all depends on how much the image is moving from one frame to the next and how much work your brain has to do to interpolate that image.

Boot up a game on a CRT and try it yourself. Using something like fraps to show the FPS, up your resolution till you get about 25fps in the game. Now down the rez till you get say 75fps. you are telling me that because according to you the eyes can't process more than 25fps, then you see no difference between the two?

I think every gamer on earth would disagree with you.

I in fact challenge you to find a people who could, say, see flicker at 140Hz. According to your "research" and logic, 140Hz would be more flickery than 100Hz right? :lol:

The simple fact is, the higher the refresh rate, the less the flicker. Google it. I challenge you to find a credible source which says otherwise :rolleyes:

Still can't quite get over the "brain refresh rate" part :lol:
Sorry but I beg to differ.



According to your logic, 120Hz would be preceived to be more flickery "on average" than 100Hz. Sorry, but that is nonsense.



I don't know what kind of retro experiment you are referring to about the 24fps thing, but I assure you: People can see far and away beyond this frequency of fps.



Take computer gaming for example. There is a massive difference between 25FPS and 50FPS. Even 50FPs and 100FPS. A lot of pro gamers use 120FPS as even 100 isn't fast enough. It all depends on how much the image is moving from one frame to the next and how much work your brain has to do to interpolate that image.



Boot up a game on a CRT and try it yourself. Using something like fraps to show the FPS, up your resolution till you get about 25fps in the game. Now down the rez till you get say 75fps. you are telling me that because according to you the eyes can't process more than 25fps, then you see no difference between the two?



I think every gamer on earth would disagree with you.



I in fact challenge you to find a people who could, say, see flicker at 140Hz. According to your "research" and logic, 140Hz would be more flickery than 100Hz right? :lol:



The simple fact is, the higher the refresh rate, the less the flicker. Google it. I challenge you to find a credible source which says otherwise :rolleyes:



Still can't quite get over the "brain refresh rate" part :lol:

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#11
Posted 01/27/2008 09:49 PM   
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#12
Posted 01/27/2008 10:18 PM   
Good Grief man. Is there no end to the daftness you spout? (well you did say you had got used to them)

Less flicker at 100 over 120 is bullcrap. Oh PLEASE can someone other than myself test this out and post your findings? In fact, if you can, try 100 vs 140 which should be more obvious. Which produces less flicker? Anyone? :)


Oruq, I have a couple of wiki links for you. I know, I know... its wiki... but it's the best that I could find at such a short time.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision[/url]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold[/url]


Note that nowhere does it say or insinuate in any way that higher refresh rate will NOT give less flicker.

Its already 10.30pm and I have work in the morning so can't really wait around for you to re-edit the same post for the 10th time again. Tomorrow evening, I hope to have a few results from a couple of brotha's from the community :)

If they in fact say that 100Hz is less flickery than 140Hz etc, then I will wholeheartedly accept that and issue you an apology.

Good evening Fellas.

-- "RAGEdemon"

Shahzad
England
Good Grief man. Is there no end to the daftness you spout? (well you did say you had got used to them)



Less flicker at 100 over 120 is bullcrap. Oh PLEASE can someone other than myself test this out and post your findings? In fact, if you can, try 100 vs 140 which should be more obvious. Which produces less flicker? Anyone? :)





Oruq, I have a couple of wiki links for you. I know, I know... its wiki... but it's the best that I could find at such a short time.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold





Note that nowhere does it say or insinuate in any way that higher refresh rate will NOT give less flicker.



Its already 10.30pm and I have work in the morning so can't really wait around for you to re-edit the same post for the 10th time again. Tomorrow evening, I hope to have a few results from a couple of brotha's from the community :)



If they in fact say that 100Hz is less flickery than 140Hz etc, then I will wholeheartedly accept that and issue you an apology.



Good evening Fellas.



-- "RAGEdemon"



Shahzad

England

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#13
Posted 01/27/2008 10:40 PM   
This is what I get:
60Hz: heavy flicker
85Hz: light flicker
100Hz: no flicker
120Hz: no flicker

Now what the OP Net12 means when he says flicker, is the unsync of the shutterglasses with the monitor. This looks like the glasses don't work every few seconds. I'm sure everyone who have shutterglasses have experienced this however I've never heard an explanation.

Oruq I've never heard about the things You write about or experienced them. So I'm guessing You're either an experimental brain biologist on the forefront of Your field or Your shutterglasses didn't work properly. I've read a few books about the brain and it's quite interesting how it syncronizes the audio and video signals to create the "world". This 0.5 sec delay is not something we notice except when we jump before we hear the bang :huh: Also what Our eyes see is just 2 slightly different images but what we experience is 1 3D world - thank You brain :D

Seriously when I get the flicker/unsync of my shutterglasses Net12 talks about it is NOT my brain not being in sync with my monitor.
This is what I get:

60Hz: heavy flicker

85Hz: light flicker

100Hz: no flicker

120Hz: no flicker



Now what the OP Net12 means when he says flicker, is the unsync of the shutterglasses with the monitor. This looks like the glasses don't work every few seconds. I'm sure everyone who have shutterglasses have experienced this however I've never heard an explanation.



Oruq I've never heard about the things You write about or experienced them. So I'm guessing You're either an experimental brain biologist on the forefront of Your field or Your shutterglasses didn't work properly. I've read a few books about the brain and it's quite interesting how it syncronizes the audio and video signals to create the "world". This 0.5 sec delay is not something we notice except when we jump before we hear the bang :huh: Also what Our eyes see is just 2 slightly different images but what we experience is 1 3D world - thank You brain :D



Seriously when I get the flicker/unsync of my shutterglasses Net12 talks about it is NOT my brain not being in sync with my monitor.

#14
Posted 01/27/2008 11:54 PM   
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#15
Posted 01/28/2008 01:15 AM   
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