Decline of 3D Vision - Thought you all should know - Dark Times Ahead :(
  12 / 14    
Tridef is MEH... - No DX11 on 3D Vision - DX9 works mostly if you have a normal Dual-Link DVI connected 3D Vision Monitor + glasses - NO SLI support whatsoever - No Surround /Eyefinity support (it doesn't work even for AMD cards = crossfire) But hey!!! we got an alpha Oculus Rift plugin to some DX9 games where all the shadows + other effects are disabled ^_^ I tried their fake power3D thingy and tbh I am more impressed with Nvidia's Compat mode (if they would just fix the damn halos a bit more....) in terms of depth and "3d space" perception...
Tridef is MEH...
- No DX11 on 3D Vision
- DX9 works mostly if you have a normal Dual-Link DVI connected 3D Vision Monitor + glasses
- NO SLI support whatsoever
- No Surround /Eyefinity support (it doesn't work even for AMD cards = crossfire)

But hey!!! we got an alpha Oculus Rift plugin to some DX9 games where all the shadows + other effects are disabled ^_^

I tried their fake power3D thingy and tbh I am more impressed with Nvidia's Compat mode (if they would just fix the damn halos a bit more....) in terms of depth and "3d space" perception...

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

Posted 10/30/2014 02:11 AM   
It makes no sense to me why nvidia seems to be disowning 3D vision. They could easily add 3D profiles to games through geforce experience like they do SLI profiles. If helix, Mike, Bob and esquistar etc can fix 3D surely nvidia can too? They can always hire the people who can! I Really am not bothered about new AA tech or most of the other nvidia gamework technologies. I can't see one logical reason why they're not pushing 3D when it is blatantly popular, especially with oculus rift right around the corner. Why not update 3DTV play to support 1080p 3D over HDMI 2.0 on the new 9 series gfx cards? Why not hire a few skilled 3D fixers and update 3D profiles over nvidia experience? Why not make DSR compatible with 3D? I am not buying another Nvidia card. I'm going AMD next time. If a company can't support its own technologies something must be drastically wrong. 3D is the only reason I stay with nvidia and now I have no reason to stay! NVIDA WAKE UP!
It makes no sense to me why nvidia seems to be disowning 3D vision.
They could easily add 3D profiles to games through geforce experience like they do SLI profiles.
If helix, Mike, Bob and esquistar etc can fix 3D surely nvidia can too?
They can always hire the people who can!
I Really am not bothered about new AA tech or most of the other nvidia gamework technologies.
I can't see one logical reason why they're not pushing 3D when it is blatantly popular, especially with oculus rift right around the corner.
Why not update 3DTV play to support 1080p 3D over HDMI 2.0 on the new 9 series gfx cards?
Why not hire a few skilled 3D fixers and update 3D profiles over nvidia experience?
Why not make DSR compatible with 3D?
I am not buying another Nvidia card. I'm going AMD next time. If a company can't support its own technologies something must be drastically wrong.
3D is the only reason I stay with nvidia and now I have no reason to stay!
NVIDA WAKE UP!

Posted 10/30/2014 10:17 AM   
Nvidia have always wanted the tech to be hands-off, just plug n play. Problem is its never been as simple as that. I think other than one of the older CoD games, they've never really modified games to work better. Always left that to the developers. Its a shame they've never actually hired anyone to make a few fixes of the most popular titles every quarter or something. At least they will be leveraging it for Rift at some point so the tech shouldn't go missing out of the drivers anytime soon - sans a product rebranding anyway. At least we have a DX9 injector, [i]two[/i] DX11 injectors (when Flugan is happy with his baby :)) and a means to work with OGL ones even! Always the possibility to fix just about anything with enough knowledge. Just needs pooling somewhere for future hackers (thanks bob!). Just disabling shaders is super easy and no math involved - [i]THAT[/i] in itsself is a much better position than we were in 2009!
Nvidia have always wanted the tech to be hands-off, just plug n play. Problem is its never been as simple as that. I think other than one of the older CoD games, they've never really modified games to work better. Always left that to the developers. Its a shame they've never actually hired anyone to make a few fixes of the most popular titles every quarter or something. At least they will be leveraging it for Rift at some point so the tech shouldn't go missing out of the drivers anytime soon - sans a product rebranding anyway.

At least we have a DX9 injector, two DX11 injectors (when Flugan is happy with his baby :)) and a means to work with OGL ones even! Always the possibility to fix just about anything with enough knowledge. Just needs pooling somewhere for future hackers (thanks bob!). Just disabling shaders is super easy and no math involved - THAT in itsself is a much better position than we were in 2009!

Posted 10/30/2014 11:02 AM   
The Rift support is just another empty promise. They want in on the bandwagon so they can say they "support" it just like they say they "support" 3D vision. For them, it's free publicity without having to spend anything on development, support, or fixes. Nothing will really come of this. If they had any intention of supporting other technologies as well as other HMDs (remember the z800?), they would never have ripped support for them out of their driver in the first place. They even had experimental technologies such as dual CRT inverted mirror etc. Note how the driver options used to look before they got greedy and closed everything down unless you go for a Quadro: [img]http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/quadro/3dvision/image004.jpg[/img]
The Rift support is just another empty promise. They want in on the bandwagon so they can say they "support" it just like they say they "support" 3D vision.

For them, it's free publicity without having to spend anything on development, support, or fixes.

Nothing will really come of this.

If they had any intention of supporting other technologies as well as other HMDs (remember the z800?), they would never have ripped support for them out of their driver in the first place. They even had experimental technologies such as dual CRT inverted mirror etc.

Note how the driver options used to look before they got greedy and closed everything down unless you go for a Quadro:

Image

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 10/30/2014 12:03 PM   
Thats what i mentioned 'product rebranding' after they remarketed it as 3D Vision on Vista and left XP with the last proper driver. If they are supporting Rift in some way with the same autoscopic tech, i would hope it won't get gutted out any time soon. I'm more worried about the lack of future 3D Vision based monitors as only last month we have a version of Display port that can do 4k @ 120hz. When my samsung eventually dies i may not end up getting a replacement 3d monitor :(
Thats what i mentioned 'product rebranding' after they remarketed it as 3D Vision on Vista and left XP with the last proper driver. If they are supporting Rift in some way with the same autoscopic tech, i would hope it won't get gutted out any time soon. I'm more worried about the lack of future 3D Vision based monitors as only last month we have a version of Display port that can do 4k @ 120hz. When my samsung eventually dies i may not end up getting a replacement 3d monitor :(

Posted 10/30/2014 01:04 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]The Rift support is just another empty promise. They want in on the bandwagon so they can say they "support" it just like they say they "support" 3D vision. For them, it's free publicity without having to spend anything on development, support, or fixes. Nothing will really come of this. If they had any intention of supporting other technologies as well as other HMDs (remember the z800?), they would never have ripped support for them out of their driver in the first place. They even had experimental technologies such as dual CRT inverted mirror etc. Note how the driver options used to look before they got greedy and closed everything down unless you go for a Quadro: [img]http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/quadro/3dvision/image004.jpg[/img] [/quote] Yeah. Based on that mod comment, I'm not going to hold my breath on any of those features appearing in the next 6 months or so. Somebody hacked together a DLL for Richard Burns Rally and it's absolutely shocking how awesome he was able to retrofit the game (better than some official releases for games). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fEIrXv_vBY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ld3tUDh9os Keygetys just did a great job with it. If I wasn't bogged down in enough difficult projects at the moment, I'd seriously try and get into this. Because there are some games that would be amazing in VR (Pinball FX2 for example). I'm not so sure this isn't the better way to go anyways. This generic approach that Auto 3D is promising seems like it's rife with potential issues. DLL fixes are obviously limited to DX9, but that seems like the only legit purpose for Auto3D anyways. Newer games, if they're at all suited for VR, will probably have some form of support. It's the older ones this tech is suited for IMO.
RAGEdemon said:The Rift support is just another empty promise. They want in on the bandwagon so they can say they "support" it just like they say they "support" 3D vision.

For them, it's free publicity without having to spend anything on development, support, or fixes.

Nothing will really come of this.

If they had any intention of supporting other technologies as well as other HMDs (remember the z800?), they would never have ripped support for them out of their driver in the first place. They even had experimental technologies such as dual CRT inverted mirror etc.

Note how the driver options used to look before they got greedy and closed everything down unless you go for a Quadro:

Image


Yeah. Based on that mod comment, I'm not going to hold my breath on any of those features appearing in the next 6 months or so.

Somebody hacked together a DLL for Richard Burns Rally and it's absolutely shocking how awesome he was able to retrofit the game (better than some official releases for games).





Keygetys just did a great job with it. If I wasn't bogged down in enough difficult projects at the moment, I'd seriously try and get into this. Because there are some games that would be amazing in VR (Pinball FX2 for example). I'm not so sure this isn't the better way to go anyways. This generic approach that Auto 3D is promising seems like it's rife with potential issues.

DLL fixes are obviously limited to DX9, but that seems like the only legit purpose for Auto3D anyways. Newer games, if they're at all suited for VR, will probably have some form of support. It's the older ones this tech is suited for IMO.

Posted 10/30/2014 01:15 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]The Rift support is just another empty promise. They want in on the bandwagon so they can say they "support" it just like they say they "support" 3D vision. For them, it's free publicity without having to spend anything on development, support, or fixes. Nothing will really come of this. If they had any intention of supporting other technologies as well as other HMDs (remember the z800?), they would never have ripped support for them out of their driver in the first place. They even had experimental technologies such as dual CRT inverted mirror etc. ... [/quote] I agree about the Rift support, I've learnt the hard way not to trust Nvidia, I'm holding my purchase of a GTX 970 until I truly see that 3D Vision support and VR features are any good, otherwise I'll pass .
RAGEdemon said:The Rift support is just another empty promise. They want in on the bandwagon so they can say they "support" it just like they say they "support" 3D vision.

For them, it's free publicity without having to spend anything on development, support, or fixes.

Nothing will really come of this.

If they had any intention of supporting other technologies as well as other HMDs (remember the z800?), they would never have ripped support for them out of their driver in the first place. They even had experimental technologies such as dual CRT inverted mirror etc.

...


I agree about the Rift support, I've learnt the hard way not to trust Nvidia, I'm holding my purchase of a GTX 970 until I truly see that 3D Vision support and VR features are any good, otherwise I'll pass .

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

Posted 10/30/2014 01:45 PM   
I used Twitter to contact nvidia to ask why they aren't supporting 3D vision or providing fixes for the games. Everyone get posting or retweeting or whatever it is you're supposed to do! https://twitter.com/nvidiacc/status/527880552188497921
I used Twitter to contact nvidia to ask why they aren't supporting 3D vision or providing fixes for the games.
Everyone get posting or retweeting or whatever it is you're supposed to do!

https://twitter.com/nvidiacc/status/527880552188497921

Posted 10/30/2014 06:24 PM   
[quote="BazzaLB"]Does SLI only work in 64bit games? I can't get SLI to work using latest tridef ignition and wreckfest. SLI works fine when not using Tridef.[/quote] You are right, tried to run more benchmarks on different games that I had. It doesn't work. What happened was the 64 bit drivers that Tridef had actually put load onto the secondary gpu but it doesn't help bring improved fps. It seems like the best way for them to get the best performance for Nvidia cards is pretty much quad buffer support directly supported in the same manner that AMD supplied for Tridef. A lot of the problems with Tridef and Nvidia doesn't have to do with Tridef, it's that they don't have the ability to hook directly to Nvidia's nvapi.dll so we can't get the performance we need. On the other hand, the more recent DLP projectors have SBS AND Frame sequential support and this opens up Tridef to Nvidia users if they want to use different 3D options. There still is an advantage in using display modes that are equally supported in different methods of 3D outputs, the main advantage is playing games in Real 3D, not Power3D, that don't work on Nvidia's 3D vision library and that do work with Tridef. One of the games I must mention is Need For Speed Most Wanted 2012, using the Frostbite engine, doesn't really run in 3d vision unless you activate compatibility mode. With Tridef, you can play those games in Real 3D, and it is awesome. Maybe I'll upload a video of it in SBS if you guys want to see what it should look like in Real 3D.
BazzaLB said:Does SLI only work in 64bit games? I can't get SLI to work using latest tridef ignition and wreckfest. SLI works fine when not using Tridef.


You are right, tried to run more benchmarks on different games that I had. It doesn't work. What happened was the 64 bit drivers that Tridef had actually put load onto the secondary gpu but it doesn't help bring improved fps. It seems like the best way for them to get the best performance for Nvidia cards is pretty much quad buffer support directly supported in the same manner that AMD supplied for Tridef.

A lot of the problems with Tridef and Nvidia doesn't have to do with Tridef, it's that they don't have the ability to hook directly to Nvidia's nvapi.dll so we can't get the performance we need. On the other hand, the more recent DLP projectors have SBS AND Frame sequential support and this opens up Tridef to Nvidia users if they want to use different 3D options.

There still is an advantage in using display modes that are equally supported in different methods of 3D outputs, the main advantage is playing games in Real 3D, not Power3D, that don't work on Nvidia's 3D vision library and that do work with Tridef. One of the games I must mention is Need For Speed Most Wanted 2012, using the Frostbite engine, doesn't really run in 3d vision unless you activate compatibility mode. With Tridef, you can play those games in Real 3D, and it is awesome. Maybe I'll upload a video of it in SBS if you guys want to see what it should look like in Real 3D.

3D Vision/TRIDEF User
SHIELD portable/tablet/tv

Posted 10/31/2014 12:22 AM   
[quote="SkySolstice"] A lot of the problems with Tridef and Nvidia doesn't have to do with Tridef, it's that they don't have the ability to hook directly to Nvidia's nvapi.dll so we can't get the performance we need. On the other hand, the more recent DLP projectors have SBS AND Frame sequential support and this opens up Tridef to Nvidia users if they want to use different 3D options.[/quote]I want to reiterate what I said in a different thread- it's my opinion that Tridef is just lying about the lack of NVidia support. The NVidia SDK is public, anyone can download it. It supports quad=buffered stereo via Direct Mode. If they don't want to use it, that's fine, but lying about it being proprietary is not. Similarly, SLI support is part of the public nvapi. They could use it, but choose not to for whatever reason. https://developer.nvidia.com/nvapi
SkySolstice said:
A lot of the problems with Tridef and Nvidia doesn't have to do with Tridef, it's that they don't have the ability to hook directly to Nvidia's nvapi.dll so we can't get the performance we need. On the other hand, the more recent DLP projectors have SBS AND Frame sequential support and this opens up Tridef to Nvidia users if they want to use different 3D options.
I want to reiterate what I said in a different thread- it's my opinion that Tridef is just lying about the lack of NVidia support. The NVidia SDK is public, anyone can download it. It supports quad=buffered stereo via Direct Mode. If they don't want to use it, that's fine, but lying about it being proprietary is not. Similarly, SLI support is part of the public nvapi. They could use it, but choose not to for whatever reason.


https://developer.nvidia.com/nvapi

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 10/31/2014 03:52 AM   
[quote="GibsonRed"]I used Twitter to contact nvidia to ask why they aren't supporting 3D vision or providing fixes for the games. Everyone get posting or retweeting or whatever it is you're supposed to do! https://twitter.com/nvidiacc/status/527880552188497921 [/quote] I can't help myself on this one, I don't tweet, so PLEASE do share their response, "Let me look into these and get back to you". I always enjoy a good chuckle ;-)
GibsonRed said:I used Twitter to contact nvidia to ask why they aren't supporting 3D vision or providing fixes for the games.
Everyone get posting or retweeting or whatever it is you're supposed to do!

https://twitter.com/nvidiacc/status/527880552188497921


I can't help myself on this one, I don't tweet, so PLEASE do share their response, "Let me look into these and get back to you". I always enjoy a good chuckle ;-)

Posted 10/31/2014 05:33 AM   
[quote="bo3b"][quote="SkySolstice"] A lot of the problems with Tridef and Nvidia doesn't have to do with Tridef, it's that they don't have the ability to hook directly to Nvidia's nvapi.dll so we can't get the performance we need. On the other hand, the more recent DLP projectors have SBS AND Frame sequential support and this opens up Tridef to Nvidia users if they want to use different 3D options.[/quote]I want to reiterate what I said in a different thread- it's my opinion that Tridef is just lying about the lack of NVidia support. The NVidia SDK is public, anyone can download it. It supports quad=buffered stereo via Direct Mode. If they don't want to use it, that's fine, but lying about it being proprietary is not. Similarly, SLI support is part of the public nvapi. They could use it, but choose not to for whatever reason. https://developer.nvidia.com/nvapi[/quote] bo3b, are you certain about this? I remember iZ3D (yeah, remember them? great company with a great driver in the time of the s3D dark age) used to complain about exactly the same thing. They tried to get 3D working with nvidia cards but they could never sync - the eyes kept switching every time the FPS dropped below 60. Did you have one of their products? I believe you and I have discussed this at the time on perhaps their forums. SLi not working is just laziness I am sure. They probably feel that the development effort is better spent elsewhere due to the "low" number of people who have SLi setups. I don't think they realise that the percentage of users using SLi would be exceptionally higher if they already own S3D, as we are the same sorta folk.
bo3b said:
SkySolstice said:
A lot of the problems with Tridef and Nvidia doesn't have to do with Tridef, it's that they don't have the ability to hook directly to Nvidia's nvapi.dll so we can't get the performance we need. On the other hand, the more recent DLP projectors have SBS AND Frame sequential support and this opens up Tridef to Nvidia users if they want to use different 3D options.
I want to reiterate what I said in a different thread- it's my opinion that Tridef is just lying about the lack of NVidia support. The NVidia SDK is public, anyone can download it. It supports quad=buffered stereo via Direct Mode. If they don't want to use it, that's fine, but lying about it being proprietary is not. Similarly, SLI support is part of the public nvapi. They could use it, but choose not to for whatever reason.

https://developer.nvidia.com/nvapi


bo3b, are you certain about this?

I remember iZ3D (yeah, remember them? great company with a great driver in the time of the s3D dark age) used to complain about exactly the same thing. They tried to get 3D working with nvidia cards but they could never sync - the eyes kept switching every time the FPS dropped below 60.

Did you have one of their products? I believe you and I have discussed this at the time on perhaps their forums.

SLi not working is just laziness I am sure. They probably feel that the development effort is better spent elsewhere due to the "low" number of people who have SLi setups. I don't think they realise that the percentage of users using SLi would be exceptionally higher if they already own S3D, as we are the same sorta folk.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

Posted 11/01/2014 10:42 AM   
Well, I cannot be 100% sure unless I actually write the code myself, but I am sure enough to publicly state that I think they are lying or misinformed. I don't make statements like that lightly. We also know that games like Metro do DirectMode 3D, and somehow magically get this to work for the same scenario. Other games do DirectMode successfully as well, apparently using the public SDK. In any case, there are two versions of the SDK, the public one, and a private one you can get under NDA. I think it's safe to say that someone as big as Tridef would have the ability to get an NDA version. If they were denied by NVidia for that, they should say that, not some vague BS about how it's all 'proprietary.' I believe that they simply put zero effort into it, and are making up excuses. Maybe because of their original connection with AMD, just for PR reasons. In this document (Oct 2010): [url]http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40505/WP-05482-001_v01-final.pdf[/url] They specifically say: [i]Direct3D Implementation Using NVIDIA’s NvAPI interface, it is now possible to render quad-buffered stereo as a Direct3D application. The Direct3D application uses the NVIDIA 3D Vision stereo driver in a new mode that allows separate rendering for each eye. For setup, the NVIDIA 3D Vision software needs to be installed and enabled. Then, similar to the OpenGL implementation, the application needs to be changed prior to initial rendering, and then some changes need to be made to the rendering code. The NVIDIA 3D Vision driver needs to be set into the NVAPI_STEREO_DRVIER_ MODE_DIRECT6 mode in order to be able to use the back buffer for left and right eye rendering. The application then needs to set up the viewport with half the width for the right eye and the other half for the left eye. [/i] I don't have Tridef because of their lack of support for nvidia frame-sequential- I have no hardware that Tridef supports.
Well, I cannot be 100% sure unless I actually write the code myself, but I am sure enough to publicly state that I think they are lying or misinformed. I don't make statements like that lightly.

We also know that games like Metro do DirectMode 3D, and somehow magically get this to work for the same scenario. Other games do DirectMode successfully as well, apparently using the public SDK.

In any case, there are two versions of the SDK, the public one, and a private one you can get under NDA. I think it's safe to say that someone as big as Tridef would have the ability to get an NDA version. If they were denied by NVidia for that, they should say that, not some vague BS about how it's all 'proprietary.'

I believe that they simply put zero effort into it, and are making up excuses. Maybe because of their original connection with AMD, just for PR reasons.


In this document (Oct 2010): http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40505/WP-05482-001_v01-final.pdf

They specifically say:

Direct3D Implementation
Using NVIDIA’s NvAPI interface, it is now possible to render quad-buffered stereo as a
Direct3D application. The Direct3D application uses the NVIDIA 3D Vision stereo driver
in a new mode that allows separate rendering for each eye.
For setup, the NVIDIA 3D Vision software needs to be installed and enabled.
Then, similar to the OpenGL implementation, the application needs to be changed prior
to initial rendering, and then some changes need to be made to the rendering code.
The NVIDIA 3D Vision driver needs to be set into the NVAPI_STEREO_DRVIER_
MODE_DIRECT6 mode in order to be able to use the back buffer for left and right eye
rendering. The application then needs to set up the viewport with half the width for the
right eye and the other half for the left eye.



I don't have Tridef because of their lack of support for nvidia frame-sequential- I have no hardware that Tridef supports.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

Posted 11/01/2014 09:38 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]Well, I cannot be 100% sure unless I actually write the code myself, but I am sure enough to publicly state that I think they are lying or misinformed. I don't make statements like that lightly. We also know that games like Metro do DirectMode 3D, and somehow magically get this to work for the same scenario. Other games do DirectMode successfully as well, apparently using the public SDK.[/quote] I don't think the reason is technical, I believe it's about money. In order to get to the bottom of this, you need to look back at the business model of 3D Vision. From the very beginning, Nvidia knew the 3D Vision software alone would not bring enough customers over from AMD to Nvidia to be profitable. So Nvidia went for the hardware lock-up. The goal was to make money by selling hardware (glasses and emitters) and licenses to monitor manufacturers, and make it impossible for users to ever switch back to AMD GPUs. This is the reason for the removal of all the types of 3D outputs except those that either used Nvidia glasses or paid Nvidia a licence and for 3D vision monitors not being able to work in 3D with AMD GPUs at their best resolution/framerate (it's in the monitor licence contract, I remember this being brought forward by iZ3D). Tridef allows other types of displays to work in 3D (those displays that didn't pay a 3D vision licence), because of this Tridef is a competitor that takes money away from Nvidia. And since it also works on AMD GPUs, it also breaks NVidia's GPU lock-in. If Tridef were to ever work as well or betten then NVidia's software, people might be tempted to switch over to AMD for better GPU performance/price. Because of this, Nvidia doesn't want to help them and will not provide them with any type of support. I cannot read the pdf document you linked (site under maintenance), but if I were to guess, I'm pretty sure there is a clause in the contract that forbids middleware drivers to use it, or something vague enough but that Tridef does (try to use Nvidia's "technologies" on non certified displays for example). Nothing would technically prevent Tridef to use it, but then Nvidia wouldn't be happy about it. Then nothing would technically prevent Nvidia to introduce [s]a flaw[/s] ahem... I mean a "feature" in their next graphics drivers or physics api that specifically ruins performance when attempting to run any new game in stereoscopic 3D using Tridef but which would miraculously work well under Nvidia 3D Vision driver. Essentially rendering Tridef unsellable to Nvidia users. It's just speculation, the big hint there is Nvidia's absolute control on every part that makes 3D Vision work since the very beginning. After all, we all remember what happened to Samsung's line of 3D monitors when they decided to stop paying for Nvidia 3D Vision licences (SA950 series), don't we ?
bo3b said:Well, I cannot be 100% sure unless I actually write the code myself, but I am sure enough to publicly state that I think they are lying or misinformed. I don't make statements like that lightly.

We also know that games like Metro do DirectMode 3D, and somehow magically get this to work for the same scenario. Other games do DirectMode successfully as well, apparently using the public SDK.

I don't think the reason is technical, I believe it's about money.

In order to get to the bottom of this, you need to look back at the business model of 3D Vision.
From the very beginning, Nvidia knew the 3D Vision software alone would not bring enough customers over from AMD to Nvidia to be profitable. So Nvidia went for the hardware lock-up. The goal was to make money by selling hardware (glasses and emitters) and licenses to monitor manufacturers, and make it impossible for users to ever switch back to AMD GPUs.
This is the reason for the removal of all the types of 3D outputs except those that either used Nvidia glasses or paid Nvidia a licence and for 3D vision monitors not being able to work in 3D with AMD GPUs at their best resolution/framerate (it's in the monitor licence contract, I remember this being brought forward by iZ3D).

Tridef allows other types of displays to work in 3D (those displays that didn't pay a 3D vision licence), because of this Tridef is a competitor that takes money away from Nvidia. And since it also works on AMD GPUs, it also breaks NVidia's GPU lock-in. If Tridef were to ever work as well or betten then NVidia's software, people might be tempted to switch over to AMD for better GPU performance/price.
Because of this, Nvidia doesn't want to help them and will not provide them with any type of support.
I cannot read the pdf document you linked (site under maintenance), but if I were to guess, I'm pretty sure there is a clause in the contract that forbids middleware drivers to use it, or something vague enough but that Tridef does (try to use Nvidia's "technologies" on non certified displays for example).

Nothing would technically prevent Tridef to use it, but then Nvidia wouldn't be happy about it.
Then nothing would technically prevent Nvidia to introduce a flaw ahem... I mean a "feature" in their next graphics drivers or physics api that specifically ruins performance when attempting to run any new game in stereoscopic 3D using Tridef but which would miraculously work well under Nvidia 3D Vision driver.
Essentially rendering Tridef unsellable to Nvidia users.

It's just speculation, the big hint there is Nvidia's absolute control on every part that makes 3D Vision work since the very beginning. After all, we all remember what happened to Samsung's line of 3D monitors when they decided to stop paying for Nvidia 3D Vision licences (SA950 series), don't we ?

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Posted 11/04/2014 01:20 AM   
Tridef is dead [though same could be said about 3D vision though who knows if any of this Rift stuff is true]. There people moved on maybe like 6 months ago. Its completely reliant on people making custom profiles. TBH, I think they had some kind of agreement with AMD that prevents any kind of NVIDIA support. Seriously look at AMD support, AMDHD, the software was included with some video cards, vouchers with AMD cards, special support of Samsung displays since they said no to NVIDIA. It would be nice of them to say so over the years so people would stop asking but yea... Im like 95% sure thats the reason. I kind of doubt that NVIDIA would lock out Tridef [besides being lax]. In the arguement that someone could switch to AMD for TRIDEF... they could already do that. Nvidia would have the monopoly for 3D. 3D vision + tridef. Not just one.
Tridef is dead [though same could be said about 3D vision though who knows if any of this Rift stuff is true]. There people moved on maybe like 6 months ago. Its completely reliant on people making custom profiles.

TBH, I think they had some kind of agreement with AMD that prevents any kind of NVIDIA support. Seriously look at AMD support, AMDHD, the software was included with some video cards, vouchers with AMD cards, special support of Samsung displays since they said no to NVIDIA. It would be nice of them to say so over the years so people would stop asking but yea... Im like 95% sure thats the reason.

I kind of doubt that NVIDIA would lock out Tridef [besides being lax]. In the arguement that someone could switch to AMD for TRIDEF... they could already do that. Nvidia would have the monopoly for 3D. 3D vision + tridef. Not just one.

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Posted 11/04/2014 06:22 AM   
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