asus rog swift crosstalk
  1 / 2    
Hi I recently picked up an asus rog swift, which I love, but am experiencing crosstalk whilst gaming in 3d. Even when I run the 3d setup wizard, I can see a faint outline of the 'other' shape when running the test. Being new to 3d, I'm just wondering if there is a problem somewhere? Or is a certain amount of crosstalk unavoidable with 3d, and the 3d setup wizard will always faintly show the 'other' shape? I've been play SWTOR in 3d, and, whilst most of the time its fine, ghosting is quite obvious on light backgrounds. I have the 3d vision 2 kit, an asus rog swift, and 980 SLI. I have used DDU to do a fresh install of the 347.52 and rolled back to 347.25 which made no difference. THanks
Hi I recently picked up an asus rog swift, which I love, but am experiencing crosstalk whilst gaming in 3d.

Even when I run the 3d setup wizard, I can see a faint outline of the 'other' shape when running the test. Being new to 3d, I'm just wondering if there is a problem somewhere? Or is a certain amount of crosstalk unavoidable with 3d, and the 3d setup wizard will always faintly show the 'other' shape?

I've been play SWTOR in 3d, and, whilst most of the time its fine, ghosting is quite obvious on light backgrounds.

I have the 3d vision 2 kit, an asus rog swift, and 980 SLI. I have used DDU to do a fresh install of the 347.52 and rolled back to 347.25 which made no difference.

THanks

#1
Posted 02/17/2015 11:20 PM   
[quote="davegl1234"]Or is a certain amount of crosstalk unavoidable with 3d, and the 3d setup wizard will always faintly show the 'other' shape?[/quote] Pretty much this. Though you can reduce it by lowering brightness/contrast on your monitor/game.
davegl1234 said:Or is a certain amount of crosstalk unavoidable with 3d, and the 3d setup wizard will always faintly show the 'other' shape?
Pretty much this. Though you can reduce it by lowering brightness/contrast on your monitor/game.

#2
Posted 02/18/2015 06:13 AM   
I have inversion lines on my ROG Swift. Most noticeable in 3D because the alternating images provide more opportunity for large swings in color/contrast between R and L eyes. It's disappointing and I hate the artifacts, but I think at this point I might be stuck with the ROG Swift. The monitor also seems to have too much crosstalk for a supposedly 1ms TN panel with Lightboost. Especially with dark objects against a bright sky (but really anytime there's a part of the scene with high contrast), with only one eye open I can see both eyes' images, one as it should be and the other image separated and faint but still very obvious. I adjust my contrast down to 25-35 and that can make the ghosting a lot more subtle, but still totally noticeable (contrast 50+ and the ghosting is super obvious and inversion lines turn green). I have no frame of reference because I haven't played 3D on other monitors, but this is more than just a little ghosting. It's horrible. I think the pixel inversion and the ghosting are somewhat related, since it's those subpixels that show up worst in the ghosted object. I know "1ms" is a marketing gimmick but I still thought it would be faster than your 4ms and IPS panels, and should have minimal crosstalk. I brought this up with Scott Wasson at the Tech Report BBQ this weekend. He reviewed the monitor but prefers G-sync to 3D so didn't focus on 3D during testing. Anyway, he thought it might NOT be the monitor causing the problem. He thought I might be getting so much crosstalk because the glasses weren't synced with the image. In other words, the LCD in the glasses was opening up too early and I was seeing the image before it had fully changed, or closing too late and I'm seeing the next image as it starts to transition. This made sense to me, but I don't know how I would verify this or make any changes to the emitter or glasses or system to get it to sync better. Does the type of USB plug in the back of the tower matter? It might currently be in a 3.0 USB slot. Also, I thought the whole point of Lightboost was to keep the glasses lenses open longer, but to turn off the backlight while the panel changes? Is there a way to make the backlight stay off longer, to block more of the transition? I can't prove if the ghosting is always there or just temporary and the timing of my glasses and monitor are off. I thought the crosstalk was something I was going to have to live with, but if it can be reduced somehow I'd be super happy. Thoughts?
I have inversion lines on my ROG Swift. Most noticeable in 3D because the alternating images provide more opportunity for large swings in color/contrast between R and L eyes. It's disappointing and I hate the artifacts, but I think at this point I might be stuck with the ROG Swift. The monitor also seems to have too much crosstalk for a supposedly 1ms TN panel with Lightboost. Especially with dark objects against a bright sky (but really anytime there's a part of the scene with high contrast), with only one eye open I can see both eyes' images, one as it should be and the other image separated and faint but still very obvious. I adjust my contrast down to 25-35 and that can make the ghosting a lot more subtle, but still totally noticeable (contrast 50+ and the ghosting is super obvious and inversion lines turn green). I have no frame of reference because I haven't played 3D on other monitors, but this is more than just a little ghosting. It's horrible.

I think the pixel inversion and the ghosting are somewhat related, since it's those subpixels that show up worst in the ghosted object. I know "1ms" is a marketing gimmick but I still thought it would be faster than your 4ms and IPS panels, and should have minimal crosstalk. I brought this up with Scott Wasson at the Tech Report BBQ this weekend. He reviewed the monitor but prefers G-sync to 3D so didn't focus on 3D during testing. Anyway, he thought it might NOT be the monitor causing the problem. He thought I might be getting so much crosstalk because the glasses weren't synced with the image. In other words, the LCD in the glasses was opening up too early and I was seeing the image before it had fully changed, or closing too late and I'm seeing the next image as it starts to transition. This made sense to me, but I don't know how I would verify this or make any changes to the emitter or glasses or system to get it to sync better. Does the type of USB plug in the back of the tower matter? It might currently be in a 3.0 USB slot.

Also, I thought the whole point of Lightboost was to keep the glasses lenses open longer, but to turn off the backlight while the panel changes? Is there a way to make the backlight stay off longer, to block more of the transition? I can't prove if the ghosting is always there or just temporary and the timing of my glasses and monitor are off. I thought the crosstalk was something I was going to have to live with, but if it can be reduced somehow I'd be super happy. Thoughts?

Asus PG278Q ROG Swift (1440p) - Win 7 SP1 - 3D Vision 2 - Driver 355.98
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ ACX2.0+ @ 1278 Mhz - i5-4690K @ 4.4GHz
Cougar MX500 - MSI Z97 G45 - 16GB RAM - Win7x64 - 512GB SSD - 3TB HD

#3
Posted 08/17/2015 03:41 PM   
I think it's just...glasses fault, nothing wrong with actual glasses but IMO the 60 times per second on/off is the one and only reason for crosstalk (maybe and the fact that they don't really turn 100% OFF..). Ofc it's a bit fault of LCD tech too..I'd really like to see a "engineering sample" of stutter glasses @120fps (to each eye) just to know how much it would decrease crosstalk..
I think it's just...glasses fault, nothing wrong with actual glasses but IMO the 60 times per second on/off is the one and only reason for crosstalk (maybe and the fact that they don't really turn 100% OFF..). Ofc it's a bit fault of LCD tech too..I'd really like to see a "engineering sample" of stutter glasses @120fps (to each eye) just to know how much it would decrease crosstalk..

i5 4670K 4.4 Ghz H2O, G.skill 16GB @2.4 Ghz C10, 2xGTX970 G1 SLI, AOC G2460PG, G-sync+3D Vision 2, Win 7x64(ssd), Games on RAID-0

#4
Posted 08/18/2015 12:20 AM   
[quote="spanian77"]I think it's just...glasses fault, nothing wrong with actual glasses but IMO the 60 times per second on/off is the one and only reason for crosstalk (maybe and the fact that they don't really turn 100% OFF..). Ofc it's a bit fault of LCD tech too..I'd really like to see a "engineering sample" of stutter glasses @120fps (to each eye) just to know how much it would decrease crosstalk..[/quote] No, the glasses are actually really quite good. I've done extensive ghost testing using specially made jps files, and the glasses with a projector have essentially zero crosstalk. For example: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/[/url] [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/803953/ghosting-with-nvidia-3d-vision-2/[/url] [img]http://www.bo3b.net/ghost/glasses.JPG[/img] It's possible that the Swift has a sync problem with the glasses, but that doesn't seem very likely unless they are doing some sort of processing in the monitor (like a TV would) for the images. As far as I know there is no way to adjust the timings. It's possible that the SLI display bug is related to timing as well, so take a look after September when that fix comes out. Don't hold your breath, but there is more going on with this monitor than usual, some extra communication with the driver.
spanian77 said:I think it's just...glasses fault, nothing wrong with actual glasses but IMO the 60 times per second on/off is the one and only reason for crosstalk (maybe and the fact that they don't really turn 100% OFF..). Ofc it's a bit fault of LCD tech too..I'd really like to see a "engineering sample" of stutter glasses @120fps (to each eye) just to know how much it would decrease crosstalk..

No, the glasses are actually really quite good. I've done extensive ghost testing using specially made jps files, and the glasses with a projector have essentially zero crosstalk. For example:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/828986/which-is-the-best-3d-monitor-/
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/803953/ghosting-with-nvidia-3d-vision-2/

Image


It's possible that the Swift has a sync problem with the glasses, but that doesn't seem very likely unless they are doing some sort of processing in the monitor (like a TV would) for the images. As far as I know there is no way to adjust the timings.

It's possible that the SLI display bug is related to timing as well, so take a look after September when that fix comes out. Don't hold your breath, but there is more going on with this monitor than usual, some extra communication with the driver.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#5
Posted 08/18/2015 08:54 AM   
This is my ROG Swift. Sure there's no way to fix this? [img]http://wiki.bo3b.net/images/f/fa/Crosstalk.jpg[/img]
This is my ROG Swift. Sure there's no way to fix this?

Image

Asus PG278Q ROG Swift (1440p) - Win 7 SP1 - 3D Vision 2 - Driver 355.98
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ ACX2.0+ @ 1278 Mhz - i5-4690K @ 4.4GHz
Cougar MX500 - MSI Z97 G45 - 16GB RAM - Win7x64 - 512GB SSD - 3TB HD

#6
Posted 08/20/2015 03:18 AM   
My swift also had severe crosstalk and after 3 different Swifts I gave up. The inversion I could probably get past but the ghosting was a deal breaker. It's really too had because the 3d was spectacular when you got lucky and the game didn't have crosstalk prone areas.
My swift also had severe crosstalk and after 3 different Swifts I gave up. The inversion I could probably get past but the ghosting was a deal breaker. It's really too had because the 3d was spectacular when you got lucky and the game didn't have crosstalk prone areas.

#7
Posted 08/20/2015 08:43 PM   
3D Vision Blog has an article that may help you in reducing crosstalk. http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/reduce-3d-crosstalk/
3D Vision Blog has an article that may help you in reducing crosstalk.


http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/reduce-3d-crosstalk/

#8
Posted 08/20/2015 09:21 PM   
I've always wondered if the Monster Vision glasses would sync to Nvidia's emitter. Last I read, they were looking into it. They are actually made by Bit Cauldron. http://www.amazon.com/MonsterVision-Eyewear-System-Active-Sync/dp/B004443WRG http://3dvision-blog.com/4369-monster-vision-max-3d-universal-vs-panasonic-ty-ew3d10u-3d-glasses/ http://www.bitcauldron.com/pdfs/BC5000_Brief_010412.pdf
I've always wondered if the Monster Vision glasses would sync to Nvidia's emitter. Last I read, they were looking into it. They are actually made by Bit Cauldron.


http://www.amazon.com/MonsterVision-Eyewear-System-Active-Sync/dp/B004443WRG


http://3dvision-blog.com/4369-monster-vision-max-3d-universal-vs-panasonic-ty-ew3d10u-3d-glasses/


http://www.bitcauldron.com/pdfs/BC5000_Brief_010412.pdf

#9
Posted 08/20/2015 10:16 PM   
I know, there are many users who love their swift. I wonder, if their crosstalk is better, or if it just does not annoy them? Could someone else with a swift post his ghost testing image?
I know, there are many users who love their swift. I wonder, if their crosstalk is better, or if it just does not annoy them? Could someone else with a swift post his ghost testing image?

ASUS X99-A, i7-5960X, GTX980, 16GB DDR4 2666MHz Corsair, Plextor M.2 SSD 512GB, 3D Vision 2

#10
Posted 08/21/2015 10:08 AM   
I'm currently testing a ROG Swift. The monitor to be replaced is a ASUS VG278. Regarding ghosting: In Witcher 3, Tomb Raider and Shadow of Mordor the ghosting is on par with what I'm used to from my VG278. Which means, in critical scenes some ghosting is visible, but it almost never bothers me, since I have learned to accept this tiny amount of it. From my point of view the Swift has other main problems. One being "pixel inversion". The 2 specimen I tested so far had it, so that I'm not convinced that units exist without it. On the other hand I'm not sure if this phenomenon is a real problem when gaming - it has been clearly detectable so far only on certain websites dedicated to that sort of thing. The second issue: SLI not working properly with this monitor, resulting in low FPS on most current games.
I'm currently testing a ROG Swift. The monitor to be replaced is a ASUS VG278.

Regarding ghosting: In Witcher 3, Tomb Raider and Shadow of Mordor the ghosting is on par with what I'm used to from my VG278. Which means, in critical scenes some ghosting is visible, but it almost never bothers me, since I have learned to accept this tiny amount of it.

From my point of view the Swift has other main problems. One being "pixel inversion". The 2 specimen I tested so far had it, so that I'm not convinced that units exist without it. On the other hand I'm not sure if this phenomenon is a real problem when gaming - it has been clearly detectable so far only on certain websites dedicated to that sort of thing.
The second issue: SLI not working properly with this monitor, resulting in low FPS on most current games.

Graphics Card: GTX 980 Ti; Monitor: Acer VG274H
OS: Windows 8.1

#11
Posted 08/21/2015 11:52 AM   
sebRab I think the pixel inversion and ghosting are related though. If you could zoom in on the ghost images in my pic up there, you'd see that the ghost images highlight the inversion problem. The faint ghost outline is not just a lighter copy, but consists of obvious inversion artifacts. The thick white squiggles in the ghost image are not just a faint consistent white: they're actually bright white vertical lines interlaced with the black that the area should be. In fact, the only time the pixel inversion has even bothered me has been during 3D because of crosstalk artifacts. In 2D and in areas where there is minimal contrast between R and L eyes in 3D, pixel inversion is hardly noticeable.
sebRab I think the pixel inversion and ghosting are related though. If you could zoom in on the ghost images in my pic up there, you'd see that the ghost images highlight the inversion problem. The faint ghost outline is not just a lighter copy, but consists of obvious inversion artifacts. The thick white squiggles in the ghost image are not just a faint consistent white: they're actually bright white vertical lines interlaced with the black that the area should be. In fact, the only time the pixel inversion has even bothered me has been during 3D because of crosstalk artifacts. In 2D and in areas where there is minimal contrast between R and L eyes in 3D, pixel inversion is hardly noticeable.

Asus PG278Q ROG Swift (1440p) - Win 7 SP1 - 3D Vision 2 - Driver 355.98
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ ACX2.0+ @ 1278 Mhz - i5-4690K @ 4.4GHz
Cougar MX500 - MSI Z97 G45 - 16GB RAM - Win7x64 - 512GB SSD - 3TB HD

#12
Posted 08/21/2015 04:23 PM   
So far the only occasion I encounter the inversion phenomenon (I think it is) is on this website: [url]http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/clock_phase.php[/url] (Lines/a grid left and right side of the non-maximised browser; over a dark green background/desktop in my case.) I haven't used the Swift for gaming much yet. The most time I've spent in Witcher 3, where the ghosting is, as I said, not very noticeable - in any case no more than it was on my ASUS VG278. In Shadow of Mordor there are some graphical issues, but at the moment I tend to believe they are rooted in driver/3D-fix not being up to date (or they don't match or something). Could you tell me some games where you think pixel inversion can be detected quite clearly (in 3D)?
So far the only occasion I encounter the inversion phenomenon (I think it is) is on this website: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/clock_phase.php
(Lines/a grid left and right side of the non-maximised browser; over a dark green background/desktop in my case.)

I haven't used the Swift for gaming much yet. The most time I've spent in Witcher 3, where the ghosting is, as I said, not very noticeable - in any case no more than it was on my ASUS VG278.
In Shadow of Mordor there are some graphical issues, but at the moment I tend to believe they are rooted in driver/3D-fix not being up to date (or they don't match or something).

Could you tell me some games where you think pixel inversion can be detected quite clearly (in 3D)?

Graphics Card: GTX 980 Ti; Monitor: Acer VG274H
OS: Windows 8.1

#13
Posted 08/21/2015 07:04 PM   
All rog swifts have pixel inversion anyone saying otherwise either cannot see it or Is trying to justify the purchase of the monitor That being said I think some have it maybe slightly worse then others I have taken one back because I was unhappy with it but the replacement one I got had much better panel uniformity and the ghosting seemed slightly better the inversion is still there tho
All rog swifts have pixel inversion anyone saying otherwise either cannot see it or Is trying to justify the purchase of the monitor

That being said I think some have it maybe slightly worse then others

I have taken one back because I was unhappy with it but the replacement one I got had much better panel uniformity and the ghosting seemed slightly better the inversion is still there tho

i7 4930K @ 4.4GHz
Asus P9X79 Pro
3 Way SLI Titan Black @ 1400mhz skyn3t VBIOS (Hardvolt Mod)
Mushkin Redline @ 2200MHz 32GB
Asus Xonar U7 Echelon Soundcard
Samsung Pro 256 GB SSD Games
Samsung Evo 256 GB SSD Windows 8.1 Pro
Samsung Evo 256 GB SSD Windows 7 Ultimate
Asus ROG Swift 1440p 144hz G-Sync
PSU Corsair AX1500i
Astro A50 Wireless Headset
Corsair 800D Case Custom Waterloop

#14
Posted 08/21/2015 08:18 PM   
[img]http://wiki.bo3b.net/images/4/4b/Pixel_Inversion_3D.jpg[/img] [img]http://wiki.bo3b.net/images/f/f2/Pixel_Inversion_2D.jpg[/img]
Image

Image

Asus PG278Q ROG Swift (1440p) - Win 7 SP1 - 3D Vision 2 - Driver 355.98
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ ACX2.0+ @ 1278 Mhz - i5-4690K @ 4.4GHz
Cougar MX500 - MSI Z97 G45 - 16GB RAM - Win7x64 - 512GB SSD - 3TB HD

#15
Posted 08/22/2015 12:17 AM   
  1 / 2    
Scroll To Top