[Review] 3D Vision Surround vs. Oculus Rift Development Kit 2
  4 / 5    
It's real geometry 3d for supported games (and some others it seems). Vorpx offers both geometry 3d and depth buffer 3d and it's even more noticeable on the rift how inferior depth buffer 3d is so hopefully enough people will get a taste of both and demand real 3d of developers. I can confirm both Skyrim and Mirror's edge work with real 3d and look great. Some games aren't officially supported yet but still work with real 3d. Someone happened to discover COD MW3 single player looks fantastic for instance in real 3d (turn off shadows) Vorpx also works with SLI enabled for me so no frame rate problems. One important factor for getting the geometry 3d looking right is that the game supports a wider fov, preferably 90+ but vorpx also offers lots of settings in addition to separation strength and convergence (focal point offset in vorpx) to help compensate if it doesn't. The tricky part is getting the scale and 3d dimensions right, as when the 3d world isn't squared up it's much more noticeable than on a 3d monitor but when you do get it dialed in it's amazing. All those 1st person set pieces in MW3 become like life sized thrill rides, it's crazy...
It's real geometry 3d for supported games (and some others it seems). Vorpx offers both geometry 3d and depth buffer 3d and it's even more noticeable on the rift how inferior depth buffer 3d is so hopefully enough people will get a taste of both and demand real 3d of developers. I can confirm both Skyrim and Mirror's edge work with real 3d and look great. Some games aren't officially supported yet but still work with real 3d. Someone happened to discover COD MW3 single player looks fantastic for instance in real 3d (turn off shadows) Vorpx also works with SLI enabled for me so no frame rate problems. One important factor for getting the geometry 3d looking right is that the game supports a wider fov, preferably 90+ but vorpx also offers lots of settings in addition to separation strength and convergence (focal point offset in vorpx) to help compensate if it doesn't. The tricky part is getting the scale and 3d dimensions right, as when the 3d world isn't squared up it's much more noticeable than on a 3d monitor but when you do get it dialed in it's amazing. All those 1st person set pieces in MW3 become like life sized thrill rides, it's crazy...

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#46
Posted 08/30/2014 05:57 PM   
I have a 3D vision Surround setup and a DK1 and a Dk2. VR and surround are not comparable. VR is just a whole new experience imho. 3D wise I prefer 3D vision surround. Everything else I prefer my DK2. It's so much more fun being "IN" a game then looking "AT" a game.
I have a 3D vision Surround setup and a DK1 and a Dk2. VR and surround are not comparable. VR is just a whole new experience imho. 3D wise I prefer 3D vision surround. Everything else I prefer my DK2. It's so much more fun being "IN" a game then looking "AT" a game.

#47
Posted 08/30/2014 11:28 PM   
[quote="Schmeltzer"]I have a 3D vision Surround setup and a DK1 and a Dk2. VR and surround are not comparable. VR is just a whole new experience imho. 3D wise I prefer 3D vision surround. Everything else I prefer my DK2. It's so much more fun being "IN" a game then looking "AT" a game.[/quote] Ditto Ive been playing Half Life 2 on DK2, and in 3D vision surround. 3D vision surround is immersive and the graphic fidelity is much better then the DK2. The DK2 has very visible screen door effect, and you cant compare the two if graphics are a priority. I got the cinematic mod for HL2(makes the game look amazing), and played it on my DK2 first. I was like damn HL2 has aged badly. LOL. It looked like a a PC game that came out 15 years ago. Very hard to see any texture detail, and forget about looking at far off objects, as all you see is a vague semblance of an object. The Rift needs much more resolution (minimum 4k) before I think the graphic fidelity would be acceptable. When Im playing the DK2, Im constantly thinking that this will be the best thing ever when they get the resolution to an acceptable level. So whats good about the rift........ YOU ARE THERE! I jumped back and forth between surround and the Rift, and 3D vision surround looks better, and the 3D effect is more pronounced, BUT, it never made me feel like I was inside a building, or running through the streets avoiding striders, etc. Scale makes a huge impact, and when you feel like the world around you is at a life like scale, then your brain gets fooled. So, what do I prefer to play HL2 on... The Rift. Even though I can nitpick it to death, eventually my brain just forgets how much crappier it looks then my 3D vision surround setup and I can get more absorbed into the world im in. VR is the future 100% (for FPS games anyway) and I consider the DK2, just a demo of whats to come
Schmeltzer said:I have a 3D vision Surround setup and a DK1 and a Dk2. VR and surround are not comparable. VR is just a whole new experience imho. 3D wise I prefer 3D vision surround. Everything else I prefer my DK2. It's so much more fun being "IN" a game then looking "AT" a game.


Ditto

Ive been playing Half Life 2 on DK2, and in 3D vision surround.

3D vision surround is immersive and the graphic fidelity is much better then the DK2. The DK2 has very visible screen door effect, and you cant compare the two if graphics are a priority.

I got the cinematic mod for HL2(makes the game look amazing), and played it on my DK2 first. I was like damn HL2 has aged badly. LOL. It looked like a a PC game that came out 15 years ago. Very hard to see any texture detail, and forget about looking at far off objects, as all you see is a vague semblance of an object.

The Rift needs much more resolution (minimum 4k) before I think the graphic fidelity would be acceptable. When Im playing the DK2, Im constantly thinking that this will be the best thing ever when they get the resolution to an acceptable level.

So whats good about the rift........

YOU ARE THERE! I jumped back and forth between surround and the Rift, and 3D vision surround looks better, and the 3D effect is more pronounced, BUT, it never made me feel like I was inside a building, or running through the streets avoiding striders, etc. Scale makes a huge impact, and when you feel like the world around you is at a life like scale, then your brain gets fooled.

So, what do I prefer to play HL2 on...

The Rift. Even though I can nitpick it to death, eventually my brain just forgets how much crappier it looks then my 3D vision surround setup and I can get more absorbed into the world im in.

VR is the future 100% (for FPS games anyway) and I consider the DK2, just a demo of whats to come

#48
Posted 08/31/2014 01:16 AM   
@Conan481 Great read thanks, 100% agree with you. One question, how did you get cinematic mod to work on the DK2, just adding -vr?
@Conan481 Great read thanks, 100% agree with you. One question, how did you get cinematic mod to work on the DK2, just adding -vr?

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#49
Posted 08/31/2014 07:42 AM   
@Conan EXACTLY THAT!
@Conan

EXACTLY THAT!

#50
Posted 08/31/2014 08:53 AM   
Someone mentioned over at the official forums that Pinball FX2 works on DK2 with Tridef (scoreboard issues excluded). So I started looking at some of the VR 3D third party apps. What a motley bunch. Seems like each one has less communication than the next. Too bad the guys responsible for all the great 3D Vision fixes couldn't have created a legacy VR solution, because you'd probably have cleaned up (if you could have created anything that was even remotely respectable). 40 - 50 dollars a pop and absolute crickets from them.
Someone mentioned over at the official forums that Pinball FX2 works on DK2 with Tridef (scoreboard issues excluded). So I started looking at some of the VR 3D third party apps. What a motley bunch. Seems like each one has less communication than the next. Too bad the guys responsible for all the great 3D Vision fixes couldn't have created a legacy VR solution, because you'd probably have cleaned up (if you could have created anything that was even remotely respectable). 40 - 50 dollars a pop and absolute crickets from them.

#51
Posted 08/31/2014 11:57 AM   
[quote="birthright"]@Conan481 Great read thanks, 100% agree with you. One question, how did you get cinematic mod to work on the DK2, just adding -vr?[/quote] I have the latest version of cinematic mod and first you have to enable virtual reality in the game options while the rift is on, then you restart the game and in the main half life 2 menu there will be an option to activate virtual reality. You just click on it and head tracking, and FOV is good to go. Did not have to use -vr console command. Game looks really good with cinematic mod and make sure to use the configurator to add all the HD models for the characters.
birthright said:@Conan481 Great read thanks, 100% agree with you. One question, how did you get cinematic mod to work on the DK2, just adding -vr?


I have the latest version of cinematic mod and first you have to enable virtual reality in the game options while the rift is on, then you restart the game and in the main half life 2 menu there will be an option to activate virtual reality. You just click on it and head tracking, and FOV is good to go.

Did not have to use -vr console command.

Game looks really good with cinematic mod and make sure to use the configurator to add all the HD models for the characters.

#52
Posted 08/31/2014 12:19 PM   
Thanks Conan481 I'll try that :)
Thanks Conan481 I'll try that :)

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#53
Posted 08/31/2014 01:29 PM   
I got my DK2 a few days ago, so far I'm pretty impressed. I've tried out Elite: Dangerous, HL2, Quake 2 and a few other demos. Elite: Dangerous is amazing, the best thing I've played so far (using a Warthog HOTAS and pedals) and possibly one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. The feeling of being sat IN the ship and watching the avatar's hands mirror my own input is priceless. HL 2 is fantastic, however DAMN the motion sickness is just terrible :-( as in brain meltingly horrific. After 30 mins yesterday I had to curl up on my bed for an hour to recover. I just played an hour of Quake 2 with zero issues so I wish to god someone would find out what variables to alter for HL2 so I can actually play it. I'm pretty certain its to do with acceleration and deceleration when you walk. Plus, the game makes you walk in the direction you are looking, which is really horrible, and the loading screens are static, so when you move your head they stay in place, which is worse for your brain than you would imagine. Within 2 days of playing 3D Vision I was immune to 3D headaches and I can play up to 18 hours straight without issues, so its not to do with 3D, your brain really reacts badly to bad movements in VR. So far I'm certain cockpit/driving games will be the winners in VR. Having a cockpit adds volumes to the immersion, specially with positional tracking. Its like a good 3D Vision game amplified. You just can't beat looking around naturally instead of always having to move the mouse or a hat switch. I can see myself getting heavily into some well crafted VR games over 3D Vision. That's not to say that VR is better than 3D Vision, there are great and broken examples of both, its just the new point of view enabled with the DK2 and the head tracking and 3D combined are amazing when done right. FPS games are so much easier to play (motion sickness allowing) - I was pulling off constant railgun headshots in Quake 2, and I'm a really poor aim usually. Aiming with your view and fine tuning with the mouse feels really natural. I can't quite get past the low resolution of the DK2 though, I can't imagine how bad the original Rift resolution must have looked! I've kept my expectations in check and glad I waited for the DK2 rather than getting the original Rift. So far I'm pleasantly surprised how good VR can be, and not at all disappointed with the shortcomings.
I got my DK2 a few days ago, so far I'm pretty impressed.

I've tried out Elite: Dangerous, HL2, Quake 2 and a few other demos.

Elite: Dangerous is amazing, the best thing I've played so far (using a Warthog HOTAS and pedals) and possibly one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. The feeling of being sat IN the ship and watching the avatar's hands mirror my own input is priceless.

HL 2 is fantastic, however DAMN the motion sickness is just terrible :-( as in brain meltingly horrific. After 30 mins yesterday I had to curl up on my bed for an hour to recover. I just played an hour of Quake 2 with zero issues so I wish to god someone would find out what variables to alter for HL2 so I can actually play it.

I'm pretty certain its to do with acceleration and deceleration when you walk. Plus, the game makes you walk in the direction you are looking, which is really horrible, and the loading screens are static, so when you move your head they stay in place, which is worse for your brain than you would imagine.

Within 2 days of playing 3D Vision I was immune to 3D headaches and I can play up to 18 hours straight without issues, so its not to do with 3D, your brain really reacts badly to bad movements in VR.

So far I'm certain cockpit/driving games will be the winners in VR. Having a cockpit adds volumes to the immersion, specially with positional tracking. Its like a good 3D Vision game amplified. You just can't beat looking around naturally instead of always having to move the mouse or a hat switch.

I can see myself getting heavily into some well crafted VR games over 3D Vision. That's not to say that VR is better than 3D Vision, there are great and broken examples of both, its just the new point of view enabled with the DK2 and the head tracking and 3D combined are amazing when done right. FPS games are so much easier to play (motion sickness allowing) - I was pulling off constant railgun headshots in Quake 2, and I'm a really poor aim usually. Aiming with your view and fine tuning with the mouse feels really natural.

I can't quite get past the low resolution of the DK2 though, I can't imagine how bad the original Rift resolution must have looked! I've kept my expectations in check and glad I waited for the DK2 rather than getting the original Rift. So far I'm pleasantly surprised how good VR can be, and not at all disappointed with the shortcomings.

i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide

Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2

#54
Posted 08/31/2014 06:12 PM   
Have played around w Dk2 for a week or so now. I would agree with comments saying it is a different experience than surround 3d and not easily compared. I'll admit my initial response to many of the demos was, "is this all there is?' I'll take my hi res hi depth 3d , thank you". However after trying Elite and swiveling around in my chair to see that ship shooting me from behind, or sticking my head out of the racing cockpit in Live for Speed, or staring up mouth open at the mountains in Skyrim, I could start to see the difference. Stereo 3 d gives a great sense of volume and depth but the Dk2 adds to that the sense of scale. The absence of screens and sensory isolation from the outside world combined with almost 360 degree head tracking and those three elements makes you feel you are there. I think the resolution thing is an obstacle for now. I also wish the field of view was a bit wider . It feels a lot like I have diving goggles on and can see too many edges. Still the immersion is great. Am enjoying skyrim once again. Can't wait for the consumer kit. I am in.
Have played around w Dk2 for a week or so now. I would agree with comments saying it is a different experience than surround 3d and not easily compared. I'll admit my initial response to many of the demos was, "is this all there is?' I'll take my hi res hi depth 3d , thank you". However after trying Elite and swiveling around in my chair to see that ship shooting me from behind, or sticking my head out of the racing cockpit in Live for Speed, or staring up mouth open at the mountains in Skyrim, I could start to see the difference. Stereo 3 d gives a great sense of volume and depth but the Dk2 adds to that the sense of scale. The absence of screens and sensory isolation from the outside world combined with almost 360 degree head tracking and those three elements makes you feel you are there.

I think the resolution thing is an obstacle for now. I also wish the field of view was a bit wider . It feels a lot like I have diving goggles on and can see too many edges. Still the immersion is great. Am enjoying skyrim once again. Can't wait for the consumer kit. I am in.

#55
Posted 08/31/2014 07:48 PM   
Great stuff, thanks for sharing. Do any of you with DK2 have a 3D projector also? When I used DK1, I think I was also underwhelmed, because I'm already accustomed to playing in "life-size" with the giant screen. Having just recently gotten a 3D monitor, I can agree that having things scaled to more life-like is a big bump to immersion. When I play on projector in a dark room, I got far better immersion than with DK1, even with no head-tracking. So, just curious if anyone has also tried projector for comparison.
Great stuff, thanks for sharing.

Do any of you with DK2 have a 3D projector also? When I used DK1, I think I was also underwhelmed, because I'm already accustomed to playing in "life-size" with the giant screen. Having just recently gotten a 3D monitor, I can agree that having things scaled to more life-like is a big bump to immersion.

When I play on projector in a dark room, I got far better immersion than with DK1, even with no head-tracking.

So, just curious if anyone has also tried projector for comparison.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
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#56
Posted 09/01/2014 01:05 AM   
I believe headtracking itself is extremely important for immersion, isn't it?
I believe headtracking itself is extremely important for immersion, isn't it?

#57
Posted 09/01/2014 07:33 AM   
I tested 3D Vision in every available way (3D monitor, 3D-TV, 3D Vision Surround with 3x27" 3D Vision 2 Asus monitors, different projectors, Sony HMZ T1/T2/T3). While a projector also gives you the scale that is considerably closer to lifesize it is still not comparable to the sense of scale that the Oculus provides. That is mainly due to the fact that even with a projector you still have a frame that separates the virtual world from you. While playing you are always aware that you are just sitting in a room "looking through a window". So even if you are looking at a mountain in Skyrim you may think "wow much bigger than on my 3D monitor" but you will never think that this mountain is indeed big as a real mountain. And here comes the reason while I am totally torn between the DK2 and 3D Vision currently. When using 3D Vision I am playing on the Sony HMZ-T3 which for me is by far the most immersive way to enjoy 3D Vision (some tweaks necessary). Since the HMZ is a head mounted display just like the Oculus you get a great sense of scale and separation from the real world. Because of the smaller FOV, missing head tracking and so on the HMZ is of course not as immersive as the Oculus DK2. BUT! with the HMZ-3D-Vision-Combo I get this awesome graphics quality that the Oculus DK2 in its current state with the current resolution just cannot provide. And so I am quiet torn right now because I cannot decide if I want to play with my HMZ and 3D Vision (very good immersion and awesome graphics quality) or my Oculus DK2 (perfect immersion and scale, head tracking, positional tracking.....but totally lacking in the graphics quality department).
I tested 3D Vision in every available way (3D monitor, 3D-TV, 3D Vision Surround with 3x27" 3D Vision 2 Asus monitors, different projectors, Sony HMZ T1/T2/T3).
While a projector also gives you the scale that is considerably closer to lifesize it is still not comparable to the sense of scale that the Oculus provides. That is mainly due to the fact that even with a projector you still have a frame that separates the virtual world from you. While playing you are always aware that you are just sitting in a room "looking through a window". So even if you are looking at a mountain in Skyrim you may think "wow much bigger than on my 3D monitor" but you will never think that this mountain is indeed big as a real mountain.

And here comes the reason while I am totally torn between the DK2 and 3D Vision currently. When using 3D Vision I am playing on the Sony HMZ-T3 which for me is by far the most immersive way to enjoy 3D Vision (some tweaks necessary). Since the HMZ is a head mounted display just like the Oculus you get a great sense of scale and separation from the real world. Because of the smaller FOV, missing head tracking and so on the HMZ is of course not as immersive as the Oculus DK2. BUT! with the HMZ-3D-Vision-Combo I get this awesome graphics quality that the Oculus DK2 in its current state with the current resolution just cannot provide. And so I am quiet torn right now because I cannot decide if I want to play with my HMZ and 3D Vision (very good immersion and awesome graphics quality) or my Oculus DK2 (perfect immersion and scale, head tracking, positional tracking.....but totally lacking in the graphics quality department).

#58
Posted 09/01/2014 07:58 AM   
I never tryed HMZ-T3, but i played using HMZ-T1. As far as i know T3 provide similar visual qwuality with T1. I tryed T1 with 3D Vision some time, but i drop it and back to my monitor. I personally didn't find T1 is better way to play stereo than 3D Vision with monitor.
I never tryed HMZ-T3, but i played using HMZ-T1.
As far as i know T3 provide similar visual qwuality with T1. I tryed T1 with 3D Vision some time, but i drop it and back to my monitor. I personally didn't find T1 is better way to play stereo than 3D Vision with monitor.

#59
Posted 09/01/2014 08:30 AM   
I spent a good few hours with the new DK2 the other day & for me 3D vision still beats the new Rift hands down & personally I wasn't too impressed, but I can def see the potential there.. With a good projector setup:- 1. Large sceen Projector ( and sit close enought so it takes up a lot of FOV ) 2. Dark Room ( make that pitch black ) 3. 5.1 Surround sound 4. Buttkicker.. ( feel the vibrations ) 5. Head Tracking ( optional ) I use the carl zeiss head tracker attached to my 3D vision to my glasses. I dare anyone to play the Asylum mission from Thief alone and for the hairs on the back of their neck not to stand up! & I've never been even slightly scared while watching a film even once in my life! Thats how I can tell the level of immersion simply by how scared or on edge a "GAME" can make you feel. I simply cannot wait for more Horror story escape FPS style games... I wannabe scared sh1tless!!!! Oh I do believe with a good enough set-up you probably could give someone with a weak heart a heart attack. BRING IT ON, I SAY! :) My Best 3 Games for S-Y-S-I ( Sh1T Your Self Immersion ) Dead Space 2/3 Thief ( on a few levels ) Metro & Metro Last Light ( DAMN I hate spiders too )
I spent a good few hours with the new DK2 the other day & for me 3D vision still beats the new Rift hands down & personally I wasn't too impressed, but I can def see the potential there..

With a good projector setup:-

1. Large sceen Projector ( and sit close enought so it takes up a lot of FOV )
2. Dark Room ( make that pitch black )
3. 5.1 Surround sound
4. Buttkicker.. ( feel the vibrations )
5. Head Tracking ( optional ) I use the carl zeiss head tracker attached to my 3D vision to my glasses.

I dare anyone to play the Asylum mission from Thief alone and for the hairs on the back of their neck not to stand up! & I've never been even slightly scared while watching a film even once in my life!

Thats how I can tell the level of immersion simply by how scared or on edge a "GAME" can make you feel.

I simply cannot wait for more Horror story escape FPS style games... I wannabe scared sh1tless!!!!

Oh I do believe with a good enough set-up you probably could give someone with a weak heart a heart attack.

BRING IT ON, I SAY!

:)

My Best 3 Games for S-Y-S-I ( Sh1T Your Self Immersion )

Dead Space 2/3
Thief ( on a few levels )
Metro & Metro Last Light ( DAMN I hate spiders too )

#60
Posted 09/01/2014 11:38 AM   
  4 / 5    
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