Asus VG248QE, VG278HE & HR, BenQ XL270T checkerboard-pattern in 3D-mode (no FullHD per Frame)
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Look at the photos I posted earlier - it appears based on what's being displayed, and there are some unaffected areas. Note that it's not constant - different areas of the screen display it depending on what's on them at the time. It's weird.
Look at the photos I posted earlier - it appears based on what's being displayed, and there are some unaffected areas. Note that it's not constant - different areas of the screen display it depending on what's on them at the time. It's weird.

Posted 08/14/2013 07:48 AM   
Just let me point out once more: I personally own 3 (!) monitors (2 official 3Dvision one on OR) that all do NOT show this effect and work perfectly (at least 2 of them ;) ) with the nvidia glasses. We are not talking about a technology that relies on blending out via polarity but just opacity. The glaseses leave either light pass through (well ... ;) ) or not ()well, ... ;) ) hence the term "shutter". The only thing in common monitors I've personally experienced not showing it have is that they all were not Lightboost (still the S27A750D is not darker than I recall the Acer 274HBbmiiid or Asus VG278HE). What I am trying to say is better stop looking for reasons other than either the panel itself or - what I deem more likely - the electronics that steers the panel. I could have been able to cope with it if it hadn't showed a compromised quality in 2D as well which manifested in jaggy lines when moving windows or mouse pointers over the desktop. Most distracting I found it to be when hitting the afterburner in Freespace SCP: the whole picture dissolved during the AB shake. I could guess it's an issue with a cost optimized TDMS receiver circuitry but that remains to be proven. In that matter as my Asus had no s3D capable HDMI input, and Pirateguybrush is able to see it on his "H": could you try if you can see it when feeding a HDMI signal via 3DTVplay 1080@24? or someone with a BenQ and DP?
Just let me point out once more: I personally own 3 (!) monitors (2 official 3Dvision one on OR) that all do NOT show this effect and work perfectly (at least 2 of them ;) ) with the nvidia glasses. We are not talking about a technology that relies on blending out via polarity but just opacity. The glaseses leave either light pass through (well ... ;) ) or not ()well, ... ;) ) hence the term "shutter".

The only thing in common monitors I've personally experienced not showing it have is that they all were not Lightboost (still the S27A750D is not darker than I recall the Acer 274HBbmiiid or Asus VG278HE).

What I am trying to say is better stop looking for reasons other than either the panel itself or - what I deem more likely - the electronics that steers the panel.

I could have been able to cope with it if it hadn't showed a compromised quality in 2D as well which manifested in jaggy lines when moving windows or mouse pointers over the desktop. Most distracting I found it to be when hitting the afterburner in Freespace SCP: the whole picture dissolved during the AB shake.

I could guess it's an issue with a cost optimized TDMS receiver circuitry but that remains to be proven. In that matter as my Asus had no s3D capable HDMI input, and Pirateguybrush is able to see it on his "H": could you try if you can see it when feeding a HDMI signal via 3DTVplay 1080@24? or someone with a BenQ and DP?

Posted 08/14/2013 11:23 AM   
I second quadrophoeniX observations. This is exactly what I'm thinking. It must be due to Lightboost and/or the electronics synchronizing it with the panel itself (LED background lighting != panel). Interestingly, lowering the Lightboost option in the monitor settings doesn't solve this. "Off" there doesn't seem to mean really off. A real on/off switch would be great, but I guess Nvidia is enforcing this behavior. Then again, I'm more bugged by the scanline effect of my VG248QE. I haven't heard from ASUS yet, except some notice that they are relaying my message to "HQ"...
I second quadrophoeniX observations. This is exactly what I'm thinking. It must be due to Lightboost and/or the electronics synchronizing it with the panel itself (LED background lighting != panel).

Interestingly, lowering the Lightboost option in the monitor settings doesn't solve this. "Off" there doesn't seem to mean really off. A real on/off switch would be great, but I guess Nvidia is enforcing this behavior.

Then again, I'm more bugged by the scanline effect of my VG248QE.
I haven't heard from ASUS yet, except some notice that they are relaying my message to "HQ"...

Posted 08/14/2013 12:08 PM   
I have tried it with a PS3 over HDMI, and it's still present. Does that help?
I have tried it with a PS3 over HDMI, and it's still present. Does that help?

Posted 08/14/2013 02:55 PM   
It looks like the Benq XL2410T isn't lightboost. Maybe I'll give it a shot, gotta read up 1st.
It looks like the Benq XL2410T isn't lightboost. Maybe I'll give it a shot, gotta read up 1st.

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

Posted 08/14/2013 06:36 PM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]I have tried it with a PS3 over HDMI, and it's still present. Does that help?[/quote] Well, at least that would rule out the TDMS receiver but doesn't make it better, though. (Sorry for always responding late but after moving places I'm not complet6ely set up even after a month)
Pirateguybrush said:I have tried it with a PS3 over HDMI, and it's still present. Does that help?


Well, at least that would rule out the TDMS receiver but doesn't make it better, though.

(Sorry for always responding late but after moving places I'm not complet6ely set up even after a month)

Posted 08/20/2013 04:21 PM   
So can anyone recommend a monitor that doesn't have this effect? 24" or 27". Just tried to play Tomb Raider on this thing and it looks like I'm staring through a screen door at times. Need to ditch this thing. Wanna try the BenQ XL2420T but I'm kinda scared of ending up in the same sistuation.
So can anyone recommend a monitor that doesn't have this effect? 24" or 27". Just tried to play Tomb Raider on this thing and it looks like I'm staring through a screen door at times. Need to ditch this thing. Wanna try the BenQ XL2420T but I'm kinda scared of ending up in the same sistuation.

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

Posted 08/21/2013 03:30 AM   
3D Vision Blog now has an article on this topic [url]http://3dvision-blog.com/9009-some-3d-vision-monitors-may-have-resolution-issue-in-3d-mode/[/url]
3D Vision Blog now has an article on this topic

http://3dvision-blog.com/9009-some-3d-vision-monitors-may-have-resolution-issue-in-3d-mode/

Posted 08/27/2013 03:34 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Checkerboard on a passive display is converted to line interleaved[/quote]Flugan, he isn't talking about that kind of checkerboard. He's talking about the LCD inversion artifact that many 3D Vision monitors has. More information about the LCD Inversion Artifact checkerboard: -- Lagom Inversion Test -- [url=http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php]http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php[/url] -- Techmind LCD Inverison Explanation -- [url=http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion]http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion[/url] [EDIT: I see the confusion. I'm addressing the OP's original topic, when someone else legitimately asked about other 3D formats. The LCD inversion artifact (checkerboard artifact) I'm referring to, also occurs on some non-3D LCD's too as well, according to tests]
D-Man11 said:Checkerboard on a passive display is converted to line interleaved
Flugan, he isn't talking about that kind of checkerboard.
He's talking about the LCD inversion artifact that many 3D Vision monitors has.

More information about the LCD Inversion Artifact checkerboard:
-- Lagom Inversion Test -- http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php
-- Techmind LCD Inverison Explanation -- http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion

[EDIT: I see the confusion. I'm addressing the OP's original topic, when someone else legitimately asked about other 3D formats. The LCD inversion artifact (checkerboard artifact) I'm referring to, also occurs on some non-3D LCD's too as well, according to tests]

Posted 08/27/2013 08:16 PM   
Also: The VG278H is better than the VG278HE. It has far, far less checkeboard artifact. Also, the VG248QE is also better in this artifact. It has almost no checkerboard artifact. A little bit, but far less than the 27" 144Hz panels. Models with more checkerboard inversion artifact: VG278HE, VG278HR, XL2720T, XL2420T Models with less checkerboard inversion artifact: VG248QE, XL2411T, XL2420T[b][u]E[/u][/b], VG278H However, you get some disadvantage. The colors are slightly worse on the VG248QE, and the 3D Vision mode it has creates a lot less contrast and some purple tint, even though the image can be brighter. If you want good 3D Vision color *and* less checkerboard artifact, I recommend VG278H, which has less artifacts than both VG278HE and VG278HR. There are several reports, including [url=http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost2-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/220#post_19136506]hazmatm comparision of VG278H and VG278HE[/url].
Also:
The VG278H is better than the VG278HE.
It has far, far less checkeboard artifact.

Also, the VG248QE is also better in this artifact.
It has almost no checkerboard artifact. A little bit, but far less than the 27" 144Hz panels.

Models with more checkerboard inversion artifact: VG278HE, VG278HR, XL2720T, XL2420T
Models with less checkerboard inversion artifact: VG248QE, XL2411T, XL2420TE, VG278H

However, you get some disadvantage. The colors are slightly worse on the VG248QE, and the 3D Vision mode it has creates a lot less contrast and some purple tint, even though the image can be brighter.
If you want good 3D Vision color *and* less checkerboard artifact, I recommend VG278H, which has less artifacts than both VG278HE and VG278HR. There are several reports, including hazmatm comparision of VG278H and VG278HE.

Posted 08/27/2013 08:21 PM   
There are several separate problems that often occurs on many 120Hz panels. -- Scanlines issue -- Vertical lines issue -- Checkerboard issue They probably have the same root cause (LCD inversion issues).
There are several separate problems that often occurs on many 120Hz panels.

-- Scanlines issue
-- Vertical lines issue
-- Checkerboard issue

They probably have the same root cause (LCD inversion issues).

Posted 08/27/2013 08:29 PM   
[quote="CeeJayII"]I feel light lightboost exaggerates the problem.[/quote]Correct. LightBoost amplifies LCD inversion artifacts. The LCD inversion voltage (negative/positive voltages) is in a checkerboard pattern on all the 120Hz monitors, and the use of a strobe backlight which eliminates crosstalk and eliminates motion blur, creates this artifact. I own Blur Busters -- LightBoost users on Blur Busters have often reported this problem (thousands of people have used the LightBoost HOWTO), and this is why I know which 120Hz monitors has less problems than others in terms of the strobe-amplified LCD inversion artifact checkerboard pattern. For those people who do not understand LCD inversion, see: -- Lagom Inversion Test -- [url=http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php]http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php[/url] -- Techmind LCD Inverison Explanation -- [url=http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion]http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion[/url] The inversion voltages are in exactly the same vertically-stretched checkerboard pattern.
CeeJayII said:I feel light lightboost exaggerates the problem.
Correct. LightBoost amplifies LCD inversion artifacts. The LCD inversion voltage (negative/positive voltages) is in a checkerboard pattern on all the 120Hz monitors, and the use of a strobe backlight which eliminates crosstalk and eliminates motion blur, creates this artifact.

I own Blur Busters -- LightBoost users on Blur Busters have often reported this problem (thousands of people have used the LightBoost HOWTO), and this is why I know which 120Hz monitors has less problems than others in terms of the strobe-amplified LCD inversion artifact checkerboard pattern.

For those people who do not understand LCD inversion, see:
-- Lagom Inversion Test -- http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php
-- Techmind LCD Inverison Explanation -- http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion

The inversion voltages are in exactly the same vertically-stretched checkerboard pattern.

Posted 08/27/2013 08:30 PM   
[quote="Gynzer"]Using the white-black test image I've got noticeable checkerboarding within about 2cm from the edges on all four sides. Beyond that it's non-existant. I've got Asus VG278H.[/quote]Correct, it's much fainter on the VG278H than the VG278HE, according to many reports Blur Busters has gotten from LightBoost users. [quote]Nice to see there is hope. Interestingly it seems that non-lightboost monitors are indeed less affected by checkerboard-patterns.[/quote]Correct, this is due to LCD inversion artifact being amplified by strobe backlights. [quote="CeeJayII"]It looks like the Benq XL2410T isn't lightboost. Maybe I'll give it a shot, gotta read up 1st.[/quote]It will have far worse motion blur, and more 3D crosstalk. Pick your poison. [quote="D-Man11"]Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???[/quote]No, it's the LCD panel itself. The LCD inversion voltages are not as well-controlled on the ASUS/BENQ panels than on the Samsung panels. I'm surprised how many people in this thread are missing the obvious -- It's an amplified interaction between strobe backlights and LCD inversion. [quote="SanityIsOverrated"]Bad news everyone! The second monitor I got as a replacement has got the same problem (the scanline pattern). Looks like ASUS is having quite some problems with their 3D monitors. Ironically, today I was able to talk to a friend with the same monitor (VG248QE) and he has neither one of the problems.[/quote]The scanline issue has been widely reported by BlurBusters.com LightBoost users, too, and it has been a panel lottery in that part too. [quote="SanityIsOverrated"]I can confirm, from my experience, that the checkerboard problem does exist on the VG248QE as well. It only occurs when viewing 3D content but is quite noticeable. When running in 2D at 144hz or 120hz with lightboost, there is no issue.[/quote]It also occurs in LightBoost 2D motion too, you just need very fast framerate locked horizontal motion (e.g. VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC), similiar to [url=http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg&pps=1080]http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg&pps=1080[/url] (View in Chrome browser. This motion test, which I designed, reveals checkerboard problem during LightBoost 2D 120Hz, only during certain motion such as horizontal motion at odd-numbered pixel steps such as 360pps, 600pps, or 1080pps).
Gynzer said:Using the white-black test image I've got noticeable checkerboarding within about 2cm from the edges on all four sides. Beyond that it's non-existant. I've got Asus VG278H.
Correct, it's much fainter on the VG278H than the VG278HE, according to many reports Blur Busters has gotten from LightBoost users.

Nice to see there is hope. Interestingly it seems that non-lightboost monitors are indeed less affected by checkerboard-patterns.
Correct, this is due to LCD inversion artifact being amplified by strobe backlights.

CeeJayII said:It looks like the Benq XL2410T isn't lightboost. Maybe I'll give it a shot, gotta read up 1st.
It will have far worse motion blur, and more 3D crosstalk. Pick your poison.

D-Man11 said:Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
No, it's the LCD panel itself. The LCD inversion voltages are not as well-controlled on the ASUS/BENQ panels than on the Samsung panels. I'm surprised how many people in this thread are missing the obvious -- It's an amplified interaction between strobe backlights and LCD inversion.

SanityIsOverrated said:Bad news everyone!
The second monitor I got as a replacement has got the same problem (the scanline pattern). Looks like ASUS is having quite some problems with their 3D monitors. Ironically, today I was able to talk to a friend with the same monitor (VG248QE) and he has neither one of the problems.
The scanline issue has been widely reported by BlurBusters.com LightBoost users, too, and it has been a panel lottery in that part too.

SanityIsOverrated said:I can confirm, from my experience, that the checkerboard problem does exist on the VG248QE as well. It only occurs when viewing 3D content but is quite noticeable. When running in 2D at 144hz or 120hz with lightboost, there is no issue.
It also occurs in LightBoost 2D motion too, you just need very fast framerate locked horizontal motion (e.g. VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC), similiar to http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg&pps=1080 (View in Chrome browser. This motion test, which I designed, reveals checkerboard problem during LightBoost 2D 120Hz, only during certain motion such as horizontal motion at odd-numbered pixel steps such as 360pps, 600pps, or 1080pps).

Posted 08/27/2013 08:38 PM   
I have created new Blur Busters UFO Motion Tests to test for the inversion artifact on 3D Vision monitors. Enable LightBoost and then run these tests in Google Chrome browser (or 120Hz friendly browser). Test for inversion color distortion [url=http://www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=distortion]www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=distortion[/url] Test for inversion checkerboard artifact, Thick Bars [url=http://www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=thick-color-bars]www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=thick-color-bars[/url] Test for inversion checkerboard artifact, Thin Bars [url=http://www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=thin-color-bars]www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=thin-color-bars[/url]
I have created new Blur Busters UFO Motion Tests to test for the inversion artifact on 3D Vision monitors.
Enable LightBoost and then run these tests in Google Chrome browser (or 120Hz friendly browser).

Test for inversion color distortion
www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=distortion

Test for inversion checkerboard artifact, Thick Bars
www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=thick-color-bars

Test for inversion checkerboard artifact, Thin Bars
www.testufo.com/#test=inversion&pattern=thin-color-bars

Posted 08/27/2013 10:18 PM   
[quote="mdrejhon"][quote="D-Man11"]Checkerboard on a passive display is converted to line interleaved[/quote]Flugan, he isn't talking about that kind of checkerboard. He's talking about the LCD inversion artifact that many 3D Vision monitors has.[/quote] How da faq did you assume he was talking about this monitor problem. The word 3DTVs should have clued you in he was asking about the 3D Format. I think you do not know what you are talking about. [quote="Flugan"]How does checkerboard work in practice on supported 3DTVs? The starting Point is 60hz checkerboard output from the PC. Is this interpolated into 1080p 120hz and shown with shutter glasses? The alternative, transmitting checkerboard using passive glasses does not appear feasable. I probably exlude some DLP Products from the coverage above.[/quote]
mdrejhon said:
D-Man11 said:Checkerboard on a passive display is converted to line interleaved
Flugan, he isn't talking about that kind of checkerboard.
He's talking about the LCD inversion artifact that many 3D Vision monitors has.


How da faq did you assume he was talking about this monitor problem. The word 3DTVs should have clued you in he was asking about the 3D Format. I think you do not know what you are talking about.

Flugan said:How does checkerboard work in practice on supported 3DTVs?

The starting Point is 60hz checkerboard output from the PC.

Is this interpolated into 1080p 120hz and shown with shutter glasses?

The alternative, transmitting checkerboard using passive glasses does not appear feasable.

I probably exlude some DLP Products from the coverage above.

Posted 08/28/2013 03:31 PM   
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