Asus VG248QE, VG278HE & HR, BenQ XL270T checkerboard-pattern in 3D-mode (no FullHD per Frame)
5 / 12
Things are getting stranger by the hour.
I've just been at my parents place and made sure to try the red-green test image on my old Benq XL2410T. There was no problem in the resulting image which means either there is no problem or that some setting is hiding the problem like changing the contrast on my VG278H Changes the result of the test.
I've just been at my parents place and made sure to try the red-green test image on my old Benq XL2410T. There was no problem in the resulting image which means either there is no problem or that some setting is hiding the problem like changing the contrast on my VG278H Changes the result of the test.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
[quote="Flugan"]Things are getting stranger by the hour.[/quote]
You can say that again...
I've been using my projector with TriDef, simply because of the large screen.
But I wanted to test the Samsung with TriDef to see if I observed a checkerboard appearance like I had using 3D Vision generic CRT. guess what...no checkerboard looking image.
Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
But if my Samsung is using generic CRT, it wouldn't have a display profile....
Flugan said:Things are getting stranger by the hour.
You can say that again...
I've been using my projector with TriDef, simply because of the large screen.
But I wanted to test the Samsung with TriDef to see if I observed a checkerboard appearance like I had using 3D Vision generic CRT. guess what...no checkerboard looking image.
Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
But if my Samsung is using generic CRT, it wouldn't have a display profile....
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="Flugan"]Things are getting stranger by the hour.[/quote]
You can say that again...
I've been using my projector with TriDef, simply because of the large screen.
But I wanted to test the Samsung with TriDef to see if I observed a checkerboard appearance like I had using 3D Vision generic CRT. guess what...no checkerboard looking image.
Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
But if my Samsung is using generic CRT, it wouldn't have a display profile....[/quote]
I may be mistaken but I believe generic CRT is actually a checkerboard output intentionally. That is the 3D format that CRT and DLP supports, isn't it? I have used tridef on my VG248QE montitor and still see the checkerboard bug effect. I still think the matte vs glossy theory has legs.
Flugan said:Things are getting stranger by the hour.
You can say that again...
I've been using my projector with TriDef, simply because of the large screen.
But I wanted to test the Samsung with TriDef to see if I observed a checkerboard appearance like I had using 3D Vision generic CRT. guess what...no checkerboard looking image.
Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
But if my Samsung is using generic CRT, it wouldn't have a display profile....
I may be mistaken but I believe generic CRT is actually a checkerboard output intentionally. That is the 3D format that CRT and DLP supports, isn't it? I have used tridef on my VG248QE montitor and still see the checkerboard bug effect. I still think the matte vs glossy theory has legs.
Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.
When you used your VG24QE with TriDef were you using a Nvidia GPU?
Where you using Direct 3D Stereo 120Hz TriDef via Dual link DVI(d) while also running 3D Vision to enable the glasses?
Yes, with 3D vision turned on but at zero depth and convergence. I see your point though, even at those settings, the pattern persists. Therefore, Tridef is not a good test for me. Maybe someone with an Nvidia monitor with the emitter built in can test Tridef to see if the pattern still exists.
Yes, with 3D vision turned on but at zero depth and convergence. I see your point though, even at those settings, the pattern persists. Therefore, Tridef is not a good test for me. Maybe someone with an Nvidia monitor with the emitter built in can test Tridef to see if the pattern still exists.
Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.
The problem with using TriDef with 3D Vision monitor that has a built in emmitter is that it's supported via HDMI 1.4 and thus not 1080P 120Hz. Of course it would be a humerous wrinkle, if indeed the anomaly is present using it.
As far as the S27A750D that quadrophoenix is now using, it doesn't have a Dual Link DVI(d) connection. It uses Display Port and works with AMD's HD3D/TriDef.
The problem with using TriDef with 3D Vision monitor that has a built in emmitter is that it's supported via HDMI 1.4 and thus not 1080P 120Hz. Of course it would be a humerous wrinkle, if indeed the anomaly is present using it.
As far as the S27A750D that quadrophoenix is now using, it doesn't have a Dual Link DVI(d) connection. It uses Display Port and works with AMD's HD3D/TriDef.
"Thank you for providing me the link to the forum. First of all the forum is about VG278HE not VG248QE. These two different models have different specs (although there's a claim that the pattern is still visible on VG248QE but only "when sitting too close to the monitor").
The checkboard pattern is completely different topic from "3d is clearly not 1080p." And if you read the posting, FlyingRocket said, "The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern)."
Normally, you would want to sit and look at your monitor at a comfortable distance. OSHA suggests the preferred viewing distance is 20 to 40 inches:
https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/components_monitors.html#Viewing Distance
What's happening may be due to the type of LCD technology used in these particular screens, but it does not mean they are defective."
THIS is the response I got from ASUS. They consider our monitors to be normal it seems.
"Thank you for providing me the link to the forum. First of all the forum is about VG278HE not VG248QE. These two different models have different specs (although there's a claim that the pattern is still visible on VG248QE but only "when sitting too close to the monitor").
The checkboard pattern is completely different topic from "3d is clearly not 1080p." And if you read the posting, FlyingRocket said, "The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern)."
Normally, you would want to sit and look at your monitor at a comfortable distance. OSHA suggests the preferred viewing distance is 20 to 40 inches:
https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/components_monitors.html#Viewing Distance
What's happening may be due to the type of LCD technology used in these particular screens, but it does not mean they are defective."
THIS is the response I got from ASUS. They consider our monitors to be normal it seems.
Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.
From a normal viewing distance (30-50cm), I can't see this pattern. I can when I get up close, but is it really noticeable enough to bother people? Or are we just investigating this out of curiosity?
From a normal viewing distance (30-50cm), I can't see this pattern. I can when I get up close, but is it really noticeable enough to bother people? Or are we just investigating this out of curiosity?
[quote="AcidBong"][...] using the black and white image, I start at 100% contrast and go down 1% at a time. soon as i get to 97, the image flickers, and i get a fuzzy type of rendering. Go down a few more percent, and the white image turns pinkish! Go down to about 75, and it's white again, but with the checker pattern. What do you make of that?[/quote]
That is some kind of odd behaviour ... do you experience such issues also with other 3D content?
[quote="Gynzer"]Using the white-black test image I've got noticeable checkerboarding within about 2cm from the edges on all four sides. Beyond that it's non-existant. I've got Asus VG278H.
How do I check the manufacturing date on my monitor?[/quote]
I am sorry to hear that your monitor also suffers from this problem. You can check the manufacturing date on the back plate of your monitor (where the connection can be found).
[quote="quadrophoeniX"]D-Man11 asked me to jump back in as I was one of the first to stir in that can of ****[/quote]
[b]quadrophoeniX[/b], thank you for joining our discussion. It is interesting to read about your case.
[quote="quadrophoeniX"]
I have a Sammy 2233RZ and a Hannspree that both do not show this behaviour. Admittantly they both are not lightboost, but honestly, if that feature is what is used as an explanation/ excuse for this symptom I would rather call lightboost a degression.[/quote]
Nice to see there is hope. Interestingly it seems that non-lightboost monitors are indeed less affected by checkerboard-patterns.
[quote="quadrophoeniX"]
Still, all my researches on the web lead me to the conclusion that it [i]is[/i] at least "normal" for the Asus HE.[...]
So I decided on a Samsung S27A750D. Officially not supported by nvidia unfortunately. Still, it shows crisp 1:1 mapped pixels in 2D and 3D and even though I don't like glossy panels too much this is by far the best 3D monitor I have used so far. [...][/quote]
The Samsung S27A750D indeed looks interesting. However, it isn't officially sold anymore. Do you now if there is a successor for this monitor?
In [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/post/3719320/#3719320]this post[/url] you are reporting that you received an Asus VG278HE, which did not suffer from the checkerboard-interlacing anymore. Did you receive this monitor via RMA? Was it a really pattern-free monitor? Was ghosting "better" with this checkerboard-free monitor?
In your very last sentence of [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/post/3719320/#3719320]your post[/url] you said that you are "probably going to keep the HE now". Obviously you decided to return it. Why did you do so?
[quote="D-Man11"]
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???[/quote]
That is an interesting finding. I also tried using TriDef, however, it didn't change a thing. Maybe it is due to the fact, that TriDef is also using the Nvidia Drivers.
I am really excited right now, that it may possibly be a driver or EDID-issue, because these are problems, which in my opinion can be fixed more easy than a hardware issue.
Last week I already have contacted the Nvidia Support and my case has quickly been escalated to a Level 2 Technical Support (sounds good doesn't it ... we'll see (I am yet quite skeptical whether this helps much)). I also gave them a link to our discussion.
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/ergw.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img824/2183/ergw.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[u][b]I have to split my post due to forum restrictions. To be continued ...[/b][/u]
AcidBong said:[...] using the black and white image, I start at 100% contrast and go down 1% at a time. soon as i get to 97, the image flickers, and i get a fuzzy type of rendering. Go down a few more percent, and the white image turns pinkish! Go down to about 75, and it's white again, but with the checker pattern. What do you make of that?
That is some kind of odd behaviour ... do you experience such issues also with other 3D content?
Gynzer said:Using the white-black test image I've got noticeable checkerboarding within about 2cm from the edges on all four sides. Beyond that it's non-existant. I've got Asus VG278H.
How do I check the manufacturing date on my monitor?
I am sorry to hear that your monitor also suffers from this problem. You can check the manufacturing date on the back plate of your monitor (where the connection can be found).
quadrophoeniX said:D-Man11 asked me to jump back in as I was one of the first to stir in that can of ****
quadrophoeniX, thank you for joining our discussion. It is interesting to read about your case.
quadrophoeniX said:
I have a Sammy 2233RZ and a Hannspree that both do not show this behaviour. Admittantly they both are not lightboost, but honestly, if that feature is what is used as an explanation/ excuse for this symptom I would rather call lightboost a degression.
Nice to see there is hope. Interestingly it seems that non-lightboost monitors are indeed less affected by checkerboard-patterns.
quadrophoeniX said:
Still, all my researches on the web lead me to the conclusion that it is at least "normal" for the Asus HE.[...]
So I decided on a Samsung S27A750D. Officially not supported by nvidia unfortunately. Still, it shows crisp 1:1 mapped pixels in 2D and 3D and even though I don't like glossy panels too much this is by far the best 3D monitor I have used so far. [...]
The Samsung S27A750D indeed looks interesting. However, it isn't officially sold anymore. Do you now if there is a successor for this monitor?
In this post you are reporting that you received an Asus VG278HE, which did not suffer from the checkerboard-interlacing anymore. Did you receive this monitor via RMA? Was it a really pattern-free monitor? Was ghosting "better" with this checkerboard-free monitor?
In your very last sentence of your post you said that you are "probably going to keep the HE now". Obviously you decided to return it. Why did you do so?
D-Man11 said:
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
That is an interesting finding. I also tried using TriDef, however, it didn't change a thing. Maybe it is due to the fact, that TriDef is also using the Nvidia Drivers.
I am really excited right now, that it may possibly be a driver or EDID-issue, because these are problems, which in my opinion can be fixed more easy than a hardware issue.
Last week I already have contacted the Nvidia Support and my case has quickly been escalated to a Level 2 Technical Support (sounds good doesn't it ... we'll see (I am yet quite skeptical whether this helps much)). I also gave them a link to our discussion.
I have to split my post due to forum restrictions. To be continued ...
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus
[b][u]... continuing from previous post (ups, this is indeed a long one ...)[/u][/b]
[quote="CeeJayII"]"Thank you for providing me the link to the forum. First of all the forum is about VG278HE not VG248QE. These two different models have different specs (although there's a claim that the pattern is still visible on VG248QE but only "when sitting too close to the monitor").
The checkboard pattern is completely different topic from "3d is clearly not 1080p." And if you read the posting, FlyingRocket said, "The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern)."
[..]What's happening may be due to the type of LCD technology used in these particular screens, but it does not mean they are defective."
THIS is the response I got from ASUS. They consider our monitors to be normal it seems. [/quote]
Thank you very much, [b]CeeJayII[/b], for sharing ASUS' answer.
From the manufacturers point of view I also would argue that it seems to be normal. However, since we have counterexamples, which obviously produces better 3D (like [b]quadrophoniX's[/b] Samsung or some older models without lightboost), I still believe in a bug :).
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]From a normal viewing distance (30-50cm), I can't see this pattern. I can when I get up close, but is it really noticeable enough to bother people? Or are we just investigating this out of curiosity?[/quote]
If you are not experiencing the issue in a distracting manner, just forget about it and enjoy your monitor. I am not the kind of persons that takes a magnifying glass in order to find problems. I am rather the person, which is interested in an overall satisfying solution ([url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/566852/3d-vision/asus-vg278he-checkerboard-pattern-while-watching-3d-no-fullhd-for-each-eye-/post/3873510/#3873510]as I already said[/url]).
However, in my case the pattern is clearly visible in my normal viewing distance (80cm, ~30inches). Hence, I am not investigating solely out of curiosity but rather because it is an issue, which really bothers me and reduces image quality while viewing 3D content.
I started this thread in order to find out
[olist]
[.]if I am the only person experiencing this issue (since no reviewer or tester has written about it)[/.]
[.]if there is some kind of solution I can apply to get rid of it[/.]
[.]and in case, there is no solution for the Asus VG278HE, which monitor I should buy instead of the Asus VG278HE to get the best FullHD-3D experience.[/.]
[/olist]
Yet I have found out that I am by far not the only person experiencing the issue. In fact, we all wonder why reviewers and testers have not perceived this issue in the first place.
Moreover, there is currently no available work-around or solution, which can be applied to the Asus VG278HE in order to get rid of the checkerboard-pattern.
So (according to 3.) I would now buy another monitor. However, the Asus VG278HE is also not the only monitor suffering of this issue, there are other monitors as well (Acers, BenQs ...). Hence I am currently totally unsure, how to behave. Is this a software issue, which can be ruled out by a patch in near future? Which monitor is for sure not having this issue and where do I get them?
It is frustrating that there are so many cases of this issue and still we know so little about why and how.
... continuing from previous post (ups, this is indeed a long one ...)
CeeJayII said:"Thank you for providing me the link to the forum. First of all the forum is about VG278HE not VG248QE. These two different models have different specs (although there's a claim that the pattern is still visible on VG248QE but only "when sitting too close to the monitor").
The checkboard pattern is completely different topic from "3d is clearly not 1080p." And if you read the posting, FlyingRocket said, "The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern)."
[..]What's happening may be due to the type of LCD technology used in these particular screens, but it does not mean they are defective."
THIS is the response I got from ASUS. They consider our monitors to be normal it seems.
Thank you very much, CeeJayII, for sharing ASUS' answer.
From the manufacturers point of view I also would argue that it seems to be normal. However, since we have counterexamples, which obviously produces better 3D (like quadrophoniX's Samsung or some older models without lightboost), I still believe in a bug :).
Pirateguybrush said:From a normal viewing distance (30-50cm), I can't see this pattern. I can when I get up close, but is it really noticeable enough to bother people? Or are we just investigating this out of curiosity?
If you are not experiencing the issue in a distracting manner, just forget about it and enjoy your monitor. I am not the kind of persons that takes a magnifying glass in order to find problems. I am rather the person, which is interested in an overall satisfying solution (as I already said).
However, in my case the pattern is clearly visible in my normal viewing distance (80cm, ~30inches). Hence, I am not investigating solely out of curiosity but rather because it is an issue, which really bothers me and reduces image quality while viewing 3D content.
I started this thread in order to find out
if I am the only person experiencing this issue (since no reviewer or tester has written about it)
if there is some kind of solution I can apply to get rid of it
and in case, there is no solution for the Asus VG278HE, which monitor I should buy instead of the Asus VG278HE to get the best FullHD-3D experience.
Yet I have found out that I am by far not the only person experiencing the issue. In fact, we all wonder why reviewers and testers have not perceived this issue in the first place.
Moreover, there is currently no available work-around or solution, which can be applied to the Asus VG278HE in order to get rid of the checkerboard-pattern.
So (according to 3.) I would now buy another monitor. However, the Asus VG278HE is also not the only monitor suffering of this issue, there are other monitors as well (Acers, BenQs ...). Hence I am currently totally unsure, how to behave. Is this a software issue, which can be ruled out by a patch in near future? Which monitor is for sure not having this issue and where do I get them?
It is frustrating that there are so many cases of this issue and still we know so little about why and how.
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus
[quote="FlyingRocket"]That is an interesting finding. I also tried using TriDef, however, it didn't change a thing. Maybe it is due to the fact, that TriDef is also using the Nvidia Drivers.[/quote]
Did you catch that I was using a Radeon GPU?
[quote="D-Man11"]Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.[/quote]
FlyingRocket said:That is an interesting finding. I also tried using TriDef, however, it didn't change a thing. Maybe it is due to the fact, that TriDef is also using the Nvidia Drivers.
Did you catch that I was using a Radeon GPU?
D-Man11 said:Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
CeeJayII: It's definitely not tied to panels being glossy or not as all that those are lacking is the diffusion layer. As said I personally own 3 120 Hz monitors (2 of them with matte displays) that all do NOT show this effect.
And ... it's also not the display profile as my Samsung does not show it when tricking it into being recognized as the Asus...
[quote="D-Man11"]Anyhow, now that Nvidia supports generic CRT again[/quote]
Uh, do they? I din't know that (moving places and my computer hasn'T been set up for a month now...) Since which driver? I heard rumours of it on 3Dvisionblog but it turned out that it was just the Viewsonoic monitor showing up as "generic CRT" in the cpl. "Generic CRT" would mean that any monitor regardless of interconnection could be forced to show alternative frames (still, thge glasses just will start to wqork on refresh rates 100Hz and up). Generic CRT btw. also in fact just used to be a display profile being attached to any monitor not having a specific one...
[quote="FlyingRocket"]
In [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/post/3719320/#3719320]this post[/url] you are reporting that you received an Asus VG278HE, which did not suffer from the checkerboard-interlacing anymore. Did you receive this monitor via RMA? Was it a really pattern-free monitor? Was ghosting "better" with this checkerboard-free monitor?
In your very last sentence of [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/524468/3d-vision/why-prevent-us-from-using-the-monitor-of-our-choice-/post/3719320/#3719320]your post[/url] you said that you are "probably going to keep the HE now". Obviously you decided to return it. Why did you do so? [/quote]
The FIRST monitor I bought and returned through our company's supplier was replaced directly by Asus. This one suffered a very odd effect, not to be compared to what is discussed about here in the slightes way - it was definitely defective. and looked a lot like "real" checkerboard.
Just to make sure that is understood correctly: the official [i]checkerboard[/i] stereoscopic mode available on older DLP TVs is something completely different to the issue we are discussing here. Checkerboards is a "criss-cross" interlace with one frame at 60Hz carrying both the L & R informnation and the screen does the de-interlacing to framesequential 120 Hz. This kind of interleave and interpolation is much more unobstrusive than horizontal or vertical interlace as each line still carries at least som information and the display blows it up to full HD.
However, the monitors discussed here, even those that show very bad level of thius problem still accept alternating frames, frame sequential or what ever you may name it, full HD resolutrion frames one left one right. It's "just" that the physical display does not deserve the term "Full HD 3D" under which they all are marketed, as that would require 1920x1080 pixels with full collor bit depth each.
So, the replacement was (from what I can tell through the posts) on a level like all units here. At start of course it felt much better than the defective which lead me to my statement I was likely going to keep it. In the end and after some A/B comparisons to my 24" Hannspree I found myself preferring that even if smaller and not being lightboost - so what use to stick with the 27" Asus then? So I resold it.
Fact is, i could not be convinced that any of the officially supported monitors do not show this effect. So it's either a non lightboost or non supported one. Being adventurous I decided to try the Samsung 750.
[quote="FlyingRocket"]
The Samsung S27A750D indeed looks interesting. However, it isn't officially sold anymore. [/quote]
Yeah I know, I was happy to pull the trigger on a returned to vendor model.... The 950 was stil available at that time and if it wasn't that I don't like the 950's design I would even deem it the better choice for fumbling around due to dual link DVI input instead of DP the 750 has...
CeeJayII: It's definitely not tied to panels being glossy or not as all that those are lacking is the diffusion layer. As said I personally own 3 120 Hz monitors (2 of them with matte displays) that all do NOT show this effect.
And ... it's also not the display profile as my Samsung does not show it when tricking it into being recognized as the Asus...
D-Man11 said:Anyhow, now that Nvidia supports generic CRT again
Uh, do they? I din't know that (moving places and my computer hasn'T been set up for a month now...) Since which driver? I heard rumours of it on 3Dvisionblog but it turned out that it was just the Viewsonoic monitor showing up as "generic CRT" in the cpl. "Generic CRT" would mean that any monitor regardless of interconnection could be forced to show alternative frames (still, thge glasses just will start to wqork on refresh rates 100Hz and up). Generic CRT btw. also in fact just used to be a display profile being attached to any monitor not having a specific one...
FlyingRocket said:
In this post you are reporting that you received an Asus VG278HE, which did not suffer from the checkerboard-interlacing anymore. Did you receive this monitor via RMA? Was it a really pattern-free monitor? Was ghosting "better" with this checkerboard-free monitor?
In your very last sentence of your post you said that you are "probably going to keep the HE now". Obviously you decided to return it. Why did you do so?
The FIRST monitor I bought and returned through our company's supplier was replaced directly by Asus. This one suffered a very odd effect, not to be compared to what is discussed about here in the slightes way - it was definitely defective. and looked a lot like "real" checkerboard.
Just to make sure that is understood correctly: the official checkerboard stereoscopic mode available on older DLP TVs is something completely different to the issue we are discussing here. Checkerboards is a "criss-cross" interlace with one frame at 60Hz carrying both the L & R informnation and the screen does the de-interlacing to framesequential 120 Hz. This kind of interleave and interpolation is much more unobstrusive than horizontal or vertical interlace as each line still carries at least som information and the display blows it up to full HD.
However, the monitors discussed here, even those that show very bad level of thius problem still accept alternating frames, frame sequential or what ever you may name it, full HD resolutrion frames one left one right. It's "just" that the physical display does not deserve the term "Full HD 3D" under which they all are marketed, as that would require 1920x1080 pixels with full collor bit depth each.
So, the replacement was (from what I can tell through the posts) on a level like all units here. At start of course it felt much better than the defective which lead me to my statement I was likely going to keep it. In the end and after some A/B comparisons to my 24" Hannspree I found myself preferring that even if smaller and not being lightboost - so what use to stick with the 27" Asus then? So I resold it.
Fact is, i could not be convinced that any of the officially supported monitors do not show this effect. So it's either a non lightboost or non supported one. Being adventurous I decided to try the Samsung 750.
FlyingRocket said:
The Samsung S27A750D indeed looks interesting. However, it isn't officially sold anymore.
Yeah I know, I was happy to pull the trigger on a returned to vendor model.... The 950 was stil available at that time and if it wasn't that I don't like the 950's design I would even deem it the better choice for fumbling around due to dual link DVI input instead of DP the 750 has...
[b]@quadrophoeniX:[/b] Thank you very much for your insightful answer. I will do some research on Samsung 120Hz monitors and check if there is some available.
It is obvious that you have some knowledge about the technology. What is your guess for the cause of this problem? Furthermore, do you have an explanation/ guess why the checkerboard can be ruled out on two uni-coloured images (e.g., left channel red & right channel green) when applying 100% contrast?
[quote="D-Man11"]
Did you catch that I was using a Radeon GPU?
[quote="D-Man11"]Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.[/quote][/quote]
Okay, let's see if I understand you correctly. If you use a Nvidia graphiccard and the Acer or Samsung monitor, you get a checkerboard-pattern. However, if you hook the very same Acer or Samsung Monitor to an ATI graphiccards and use TriDef, you don't get the pattern?
If I got you right, the checkerboard pattern really seems to be a driver problem!
PS: Are you able to view the content in 3D, because as far as I know, the glasses only work with Nvidia cards?
PPS: I just received a [b][u]BenQ XL2720T[/u][/b] (with lightboost), which also shows the same checkerboard-pattern. It is really annoying and frustrating!
@quadrophoeniX: Thank you very much for your insightful answer. I will do some research on Samsung 120Hz monitors and check if there is some available.
It is obvious that you have some knowledge about the technology. What is your guess for the cause of this problem? Furthermore, do you have an explanation/ guess why the checkerboard can be ruled out on two uni-coloured images (e.g., left channel red & right channel green) when applying 100% contrast?
D-Man11 said:
Did you catch that I was using a Radeon GPU?
D-Man11 said:Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Okay, let's see if I understand you correctly. If you use a Nvidia graphiccard and the Acer or Samsung monitor, you get a checkerboard-pattern. However, if you hook the very same Acer or Samsung Monitor to an ATI graphiccards and use TriDef, you don't get the pattern?
If I got you right, the checkerboard pattern really seems to be a driver problem!
PS: Are you able to view the content in 3D, because as far as I know, the glasses only work with Nvidia cards?
PPS: I just received a BenQ XL2720T (with lightboost), which also shows the same checkerboard-pattern. It is really annoying and frustrating!
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus
Just to confirm, 120hz 2D looks perfect? To test properly you would probably have to have a vsynced software that switched the color of the screen for alternating frames.
Actually going into 3D mode is something different. The whole OSD changes on both 3D monitors I own and you can only change very few settings.
I've photographed checkerboard pattern in brightness of the pixels on my screen.
Just did a more realistic test with just my Eyes. Looked at my red shoe in Mirror's Edge which is swiching between red and white pavement each frame. At less than 10cm distance I could se no problem using Contrast 50.
I really can't explain, I have proof of checkerboarding on my monitor when Contrast < 100.
Could it be that the checkerboard alternate between frames to become invisible or has it just vanished. Unless I get some help it's like chasing a ghost. I currently can't see the problem and
thus can't fix it.
Just to confirm, 120hz 2D looks perfect? To test properly you would probably have to have a vsynced software that switched the color of the screen for alternating frames.
Actually going into 3D mode is something different. The whole OSD changes on both 3D monitors I own and you can only change very few settings.
I've photographed checkerboard pattern in brightness of the pixels on my screen.
Just did a more realistic test with just my Eyes. Looked at my red shoe in Mirror's Edge which is swiching between red and white pavement each frame. At less than 10cm distance I could se no problem using Contrast 50.
I really can't explain, I have proof of checkerboarding on my monitor when Contrast < 100.
Could it be that the checkerboard alternate between frames to become invisible or has it just vanished. Unless I get some help it's like chasing a ghost. I currently can't see the problem and
thus can't fix it.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
I've just been at my parents place and made sure to try the red-green test image on my old Benq XL2410T. There was no problem in the resulting image which means either there is no problem or that some setting is hiding the problem like changing the contrast on my VG278H Changes the result of the test.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com
You can say that again...
I've been using my projector with TriDef, simply because of the large screen.
But I wanted to test the Samsung with TriDef to see if I observed a checkerboard appearance like I had using 3D Vision generic CRT. guess what...no checkerboard looking image.
Next I wanted to try the Acer, but TriDef told me it was incompatible with an AMD Radeon GPU,since there is no way to activate Nvidia glasses with an AMD GPU.
So I overwrote the Acer's EDID with that of the Samsung. Enabled TriDef, low and behold...no checkerboard image.
Sooo, this must be a display profile problem in the Nvidia driver???
But if my Samsung is using generic CRT, it wouldn't have a display profile....
I may be mistaken but I believe generic CRT is actually a checkerboard output intentionally. That is the 3D format that CRT and DLP supports, isn't it? I have used tridef on my VG248QE montitor and still see the checkerboard bug effect. I still think the matte vs glossy theory has legs.
Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.
Where you using Direct 3D Stereo 120Hz TriDef via Dual link DVI(d) while also running 3D Vision to enable the glasses?
Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.
As far as the S27A750D that quadrophoenix is now using, it doesn't have a Dual Link DVI(d) connection. It uses Display Port and works with AMD's HD3D/TriDef.
The checkboard pattern is completely different topic from "3d is clearly not 1080p." And if you read the posting, FlyingRocket said, "The display was at 1080p. But, I have zoomed in to take the picture (in order to emphasize the checkerboard-pattern)."
Normally, you would want to sit and look at your monitor at a comfortable distance. OSHA suggests the preferred viewing distance is 20 to 40 inches:
https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/components_monitors.html#Viewing Distance
What's happening may be due to the type of LCD technology used in these particular screens, but it does not mean they are defective."
THIS is the response I got from ASUS. They consider our monitors to be normal it seems.
Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.
95% of the time I use my projector, so not a huge deal to me.
That is some kind of odd behaviour ... do you experience such issues also with other 3D content?
I am sorry to hear that your monitor also suffers from this problem. You can check the manufacturing date on the back plate of your monitor (where the connection can be found).
quadrophoeniX, thank you for joining our discussion. It is interesting to read about your case.
Nice to see there is hope. Interestingly it seems that non-lightboost monitors are indeed less affected by checkerboard-patterns.
The Samsung S27A750D indeed looks interesting. However, it isn't officially sold anymore. Do you now if there is a successor for this monitor?
In this post you are reporting that you received an Asus VG278HE, which did not suffer from the checkerboard-interlacing anymore. Did you receive this monitor via RMA? Was it a really pattern-free monitor? Was ghosting "better" with this checkerboard-free monitor?
In your very last sentence of your post you said that you are "probably going to keep the HE now". Obviously you decided to return it. Why did you do so?
That is an interesting finding. I also tried using TriDef, however, it didn't change a thing. Maybe it is due to the fact, that TriDef is also using the Nvidia Drivers.
I am really excited right now, that it may possibly be a driver or EDID-issue, because these are problems, which in my opinion can be fixed more easy than a hardware issue.
Last week I already have contacted the Nvidia Support and my case has quickly been escalated to a Level 2 Technical Support (sounds good doesn't it ... we'll see (I am yet quite skeptical whether this helps much)). I also gave them a link to our discussion.
I have to split my post due to forum restrictions. To be continued ...
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus
Thank you very much, CeeJayII, for sharing ASUS' answer.
From the manufacturers point of view I also would argue that it seems to be normal. However, since we have counterexamples, which obviously produces better 3D (like quadrophoniX's Samsung or some older models without lightboost), I still believe in a bug :).
If you are not experiencing the issue in a distracting manner, just forget about it and enjoy your monitor. I am not the kind of persons that takes a magnifying glass in order to find problems. I am rather the person, which is interested in an overall satisfying solution (as I already said).
However, in my case the pattern is clearly visible in my normal viewing distance (80cm, ~30inches). Hence, I am not investigating solely out of curiosity but rather because it is an issue, which really bothers me and reduces image quality while viewing 3D content.
I started this thread in order to find out
Yet I have found out that I am by far not the only person experiencing the issue. In fact, we all wonder why reviewers and testers have not perceived this issue in the first place.
Moreover, there is currently no available work-around or solution, which can be applied to the Asus VG278HE in order to get rid of the checkerboard-pattern.
So (according to 3.) I would now buy another monitor. However, the Asus VG278HE is also not the only monitor suffering of this issue, there are other monitors as well (Acers, BenQs ...). Hence I am currently totally unsure, how to behave. Is this a software issue, which can be ruled out by a patch in near future? Which monitor is for sure not having this issue and where do I get them?
It is frustrating that there are so many cases of this issue and still we know so little about why and how.
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus
Did you catch that I was using a Radeon GPU?
And ... it's also not the display profile as my Samsung does not show it when tricking it into being recognized as the Asus...
Uh, do they? I din't know that (moving places and my computer hasn'T been set up for a month now...) Since which driver? I heard rumours of it on 3Dvisionblog but it turned out that it was just the Viewsonoic monitor showing up as "generic CRT" in the cpl. "Generic CRT" would mean that any monitor regardless of interconnection could be forced to show alternative frames (still, thge glasses just will start to wqork on refresh rates 100Hz and up). Generic CRT btw. also in fact just used to be a display profile being attached to any monitor not having a specific one...
The FIRST monitor I bought and returned through our company's supplier was replaced directly by Asus. This one suffered a very odd effect, not to be compared to what is discussed about here in the slightes way - it was definitely defective. and looked a lot like "real" checkerboard.
Just to make sure that is understood correctly: the official checkerboard stereoscopic mode available on older DLP TVs is something completely different to the issue we are discussing here. Checkerboards is a "criss-cross" interlace with one frame at 60Hz carrying both the L & R informnation and the screen does the de-interlacing to framesequential 120 Hz. This kind of interleave and interpolation is much more unobstrusive than horizontal or vertical interlace as each line still carries at least som information and the display blows it up to full HD.
However, the monitors discussed here, even those that show very bad level of thius problem still accept alternating frames, frame sequential or what ever you may name it, full HD resolutrion frames one left one right. It's "just" that the physical display does not deserve the term "Full HD 3D" under which they all are marketed, as that would require 1920x1080 pixels with full collor bit depth each.
So, the replacement was (from what I can tell through the posts) on a level like all units here. At start of course it felt much better than the defective which lead me to my statement I was likely going to keep it. In the end and after some A/B comparisons to my 24" Hannspree I found myself preferring that even if smaller and not being lightboost - so what use to stick with the 27" Asus then? So I resold it.
Fact is, i could not be convinced that any of the officially supported monitors do not show this effect. So it's either a non lightboost or non supported one. Being adventurous I decided to try the Samsung 750.
Yeah I know, I was happy to pull the trigger on a returned to vendor model.... The 950 was stil available at that time and if it wasn't that I don't like the 950's design I would even deem it the better choice for fumbling around due to dual link DVI input instead of DP the 750 has...
It is obvious that you have some knowledge about the technology. What is your guess for the cause of this problem? Furthermore, do you have an explanation/ guess why the checkerboard can be ruled out on two uni-coloured images (e.g., left channel red & right channel green) when applying 100% contrast?
Okay, let's see if I understand you correctly. If you use a Nvidia graphiccard and the Acer or Samsung monitor, you get a checkerboard-pattern. However, if you hook the very same Acer or Samsung Monitor to an ATI graphiccards and use TriDef, you don't get the pattern?
If I got you right, the checkerboard pattern really seems to be a driver problem!
PS: Are you able to view the content in 3D, because as far as I know, the glasses only work with Nvidia cards?
PPS: I just received a BenQ XL2720T (with lightboost), which also shows the same checkerboard-pattern. It is really annoying and frustrating!
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus
Actually going into 3D mode is something different. The whole OSD changes on both 3D monitors I own and you can only change very few settings.
I've photographed checkerboard pattern in brightness of the pixels on my screen.
Just did a more realistic test with just my Eyes. Looked at my red shoe in Mirror's Edge which is swiching between red and white pavement each frame. At less than 10cm distance I could se no problem using Contrast 50.
I really can't explain, I have proof of checkerboarding on my monitor when Contrast < 100.
Could it be that the checkerboard alternate between frames to become invisible or has it just vanished. Unless I get some help it's like chasing a ghost. I currently can't see the problem and
thus can't fix it.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com