John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions rival Mantle!
2 / 2
Mantle already have frostbite (this means all EA shit like BF, C&C, Nfs, ME, etc will support it) having opengl to play couple of indie games isnt great. HL3 would be a great incentive for many people if released as SteamOS exclusive (pc exclusive) +based on newly developed 'free&open' engine that could sparkle a shitload of games to come out in short succession. As of right now I would like to hear what EPIC with their UE4 have to say about their engine and opengl as imo this is currently the most impressive engine.
Mantle already have frostbite (this means all EA shit like BF, C&C, Nfs, ME, etc will support it) having opengl to play couple of indie games isnt great. HL3 would be a great incentive for many people if released as SteamOS exclusive (pc exclusive) +based on newly developed 'free&open' engine that could sparkle a shitload of games to come out in short succession. As of right now I would like to hear what EPIC with their UE4 have to say about their engine and opengl as imo this is currently the most impressive engine.
[quote="tehace"]Mantle already have frostbite (this means all EA shit like BF, C&C, Nfs, ME, etc will support it) having opengl to play couple of indie games isnt great. HL3 would be a great incentive for many people if released as SteamOS exclusive (pc exclusive) +based on newly developed 'free&open' engine that could sparkle a shitload of games to come out in short succession. As of right now I would like to hear what EPIC with their UE4 have to say about their engine and opengl as imo this is currently the most impressive engine. [/quote]It would be very tempting for Valve to make Half Life 3 a SteamOS exclusive. It would singlehandedly take SteamOS's market saturation from 1% to, say, 75%.
But Valve relies heavily on the general goodwill they have from the general public (sometimes justified, sometime not). If we had to suddenly install a whole new OS just to play one game, that would make things like GFWL and uPlay look positively streamlined and user-friendly. Valve fanboys are famously forgiving, but I'm not sure even they would respond favourably to that.
tehace said:Mantle already have frostbite (this means all EA shit like BF, C&C, Nfs, ME, etc will support it) having opengl to play couple of indie games isnt great. HL3 would be a great incentive for many people if released as SteamOS exclusive (pc exclusive) +based on newly developed 'free&open' engine that could sparkle a shitload of games to come out in short succession. As of right now I would like to hear what EPIC with their UE4 have to say about their engine and opengl as imo this is currently the most impressive engine.
It would be very tempting for Valve to make Half Life 3 a SteamOS exclusive. It would singlehandedly take SteamOS's market saturation from 1% to, say, 75%.
But Valve relies heavily on the general goodwill they have from the general public (sometimes justified, sometime not). If we had to suddenly install a whole new OS just to play one game, that would make things like GFWL and uPlay look positively streamlined and user-friendly. Valve fanboys are famously forgiving, but I'm not sure even they would respond favourably to that.
[quote="Volnaiskra"][quote="tehace"]Mantle already have frostbite (this means all EA shit like BF, C&C, Nfs, ME, etc will support it) having opengl to play couple of indie games isnt great. HL3 would be a great incentive for many people if released as SteamOS exclusive (pc exclusive) +based on newly developed 'free&open' engine that could sparkle a shitload of games to come out in short succession. As of right now I would like to hear what EPIC with their UE4 have to say about their engine and opengl as imo this is currently the most impressive engine. [/quote]It would be very tempting for Valve to make Half Life 3 a SteamOS exclusive. It would singlehandedly take SteamOS's market saturation from 1% to, say, 75%.
But Valve relies heavily on the general goodwill they have from the general public (sometimes justified, sometime not). If we had to suddenly install a whole new OS just to play one game, that would make things like GFWL and uPlay look positively streamlined and user-friendly. Valve fanboys are famously forgiving, but I'm not sure even they would respond favourably to that.
[/quote]
+1 to this!
No, no....Valve is playing smart...if they will release/make Half-Life 3 it will specially designed for SteamOS (but it will also work on windows/Mac probably). Definitely, this shouldn't HAPPEN at the launch of SteamOS...
If they do this however....I retract my words and Valve is STUPID and plays like every BIG corporation (but so far they haven't shown this..and I am inclined to believe they will not do this either..just a hunch)
I am not a VALVE fanboy or fan, don't get me wrong...I do like/love steam for its features and support/things it offers... I did like HL1/2 much but not that mach to be...desperate about them or be "Valve is GOD" kind of a guy;))
Still, I really want to see the outcome in the future ;))
tehace said:Mantle already have frostbite (this means all EA shit like BF, C&C, Nfs, ME, etc will support it) having opengl to play couple of indie games isnt great. HL3 would be a great incentive for many people if released as SteamOS exclusive (pc exclusive) +based on newly developed 'free&open' engine that could sparkle a shitload of games to come out in short succession. As of right now I would like to hear what EPIC with their UE4 have to say about their engine and opengl as imo this is currently the most impressive engine.
It would be very tempting for Valve to make Half Life 3 a SteamOS exclusive. It would singlehandedly take SteamOS's market saturation from 1% to, say, 75%.
But Valve relies heavily on the general goodwill they have from the general public (sometimes justified, sometime not). If we had to suddenly install a whole new OS just to play one game, that would make things like GFWL and uPlay look positively streamlined and user-friendly. Valve fanboys are famously forgiving, but I'm not sure even they would respond favourably to that.
+1 to this!
No, no....Valve is playing smart...if they will release/make Half-Life 3 it will specially designed for SteamOS (but it will also work on windows/Mac probably). Definitely, this shouldn't HAPPEN at the launch of SteamOS...
If they do this however....I retract my words and Valve is STUPID and plays like every BIG corporation (but so far they haven't shown this..and I am inclined to believe they will not do this either..just a hunch)
I am not a VALVE fanboy or fan, don't get me wrong...I do like/love steam for its features and support/things it offers... I did like HL1/2 much but not that mach to be...desperate about them or be "Valve is GOD" kind of a guy;))
Still, I really want to see the outcome in the future ;))
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
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Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
There is no way Valve will make HL3 a SteamOS exclusive, after announcing SteamOS and the related hardware they would not be so stupid to consider something like that.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Source 2 highly optimised for SteamOS and therefore HL3 to run better on it than in Windows, and maybe have specific support for the new controller that you may not find using a normal kb/m, but exclusivity to SteamOS is a step too far.
There is no way Valve will make HL3 a SteamOS exclusive, after announcing SteamOS and the related hardware they would not be so stupid to consider something like that.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Source 2 highly optimised for SteamOS and therefore HL3 to run better on it than in Windows, and maybe have specific support for the new controller that you may not find using a normal kb/m, but exclusivity to SteamOS is a step too far.
Wow, those are some non-insignificant performance gains. I'm stuck with nVidia as long as I've got a 3d backlog, but that's something to consider.
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-mantle-api-real-world-bf4-benchmark-performance-catalyst-141_134959/3
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7728/battlefield-4-mantle-preview
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Mantle-vs-DirectX-Benchmarks-with-Battlefield-4-and-Star-Swarm/
I need to see support in games I actually care about. Pretty much hate EA at this point. Don't trust them on anything. Titanfall has me mildly interested, but then I try and remind myself what they've done to Battlefield. And ask why Titanfall should be any better. Titanfall is Source anyways. So not only won't it support Mantle, it won't be needed either.
I honestly don't expect to see DX much past 2016. iOS, Android, Mac, and PS4 are all OpenGL. Only Windows and Xbox use DX now. And with MS' hints of Windows becoming Cloud based, and that threat scaring Valve into getting all the indies on board with Linux, I'm just not seeing much future there.
I think people are going to be shocked in 2016, by how cheaply you'll be able to get a Steam machine that's significantly more powerful than PS4 (using just an APU in these budget machines). And the non-Activision/EA/Ubi guys all see the writing on the wall.
I need to see support in games I actually care about. Pretty much hate EA at this point. Don't trust them on anything. Titanfall has me mildly interested, but then I try and remind myself what they've done to Battlefield. And ask why Titanfall should be any better. Titanfall is Source anyways. So not only won't it support Mantle, it won't be needed either.
I honestly don't expect to see DX much past 2016. iOS, Android, Mac, and PS4 are all OpenGL. Only Windows and Xbox use DX now. And with MS' hints of Windows becoming Cloud based, and that threat scaring Valve into getting all the indies on board with Linux, I'm just not seeing much future there.
I think people are going to be shocked in 2016, by how cheaply you'll be able to get a Steam machine that's significantly more powerful than PS4 (using just an APU in these budget machines). And the non-Activision/EA/Ubi guys all see the writing on the wall.
Nice to see some actual testing by people I'd trust like AnandTech. Initial results, not fully optimized, not fully tested, caveats, etc.
My reaction is "Is that it?" That's all we get? 20% one-time bump? And the price we pay is to go back to the wild west of no common API so some games work, some don't? REALLY?!!
Seems like a one-trick pony of getting rid of the draw-calls bottleneck, which I observed can already be avoided if you don't just port from console with no changes to PC, or hell, get a better CPU and call it a day. Seems also clear that all that chatter about the draw-calls bottleneck is wildly overstating the problem.
I'd be more than happy to move to an OpenGL world, I just think having multiple APIs is a terrible, terrible idea. If it was 2x performance, maybe it'd be worth it. 20%?
Nice to see some actual testing by people I'd trust like AnandTech. Initial results, not fully optimized, not fully tested, caveats, etc.
My reaction is "Is that it?" That's all we get? 20% one-time bump? And the price we pay is to go back to the wild west of no common API so some games work, some don't? REALLY?!!
Seems like a one-trick pony of getting rid of the draw-calls bottleneck, which I observed can already be avoided if you don't just port from console with no changes to PC, or hell, get a better CPU and call it a day. Seems also clear that all that chatter about the draw-calls bottleneck is wildly overstating the problem.
I'd be more than happy to move to an OpenGL world, I just think having multiple APIs is a terrible, terrible idea. If it was 2x performance, maybe it'd be worth it. 20%?
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Well AMD seems like they are sponsoring all further Frostbite engine games so its kind of a big deal since that implementation will go into those games and they are pretty high overhead in comparison to most games. Besides that its just a game here and there unless they get another engine deal.
---------------
Now the problem is so I can run some games "better". The rest are normal. I mean I guess thats cool if I was running a mid tier system. I can knock a couple of settings up. But I want to run all other games at high settings. So it kind of defeats the purpose for me and most others.
TBH a 10%-15% markup of a sponsored AMD game is REALLY not even that huge. Mantle just puts a face to it which is why people make a big deal. How often does a NVIDIA sponsored game run like crap on a AMD computer. Its just how it is.
Everyones talk of "Open" and all that stuff is bullsh*t to be frank. The same arguement could be made that physx is "open". Its built for nvidia hardware / this is built for AMD. AMD sponsors a game, they want it to run better on there devices.
It rarely ever happens or doesn't as much as it should. Like last year AMD made a HUGE push back into gaming. They sponsored a whole sluth of games, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Crysis 3. These games don't really have any incentive to be AMD over NVIDIA nothing exclusive, and no huge performance gain. No one wants to piss off NVIDIA consumers due to the huge market share is kind of the moral of the story. So this is AMD's counter. Not saying its bad or anything, would be cool if nvidia did it, I'm just saying it is how it is. Competition benefits us all, but this isn't really a game changer. I really doubt AMD's pockets will be able to extend it past this point for a while.
No developer will implement Mantle for free is something to keep in mind.
Well AMD seems like they are sponsoring all further Frostbite engine games so its kind of a big deal since that implementation will go into those games and they are pretty high overhead in comparison to most games. Besides that its just a game here and there unless they get another engine deal.
---------------
Now the problem is so I can run some games "better". The rest are normal. I mean I guess thats cool if I was running a mid tier system. I can knock a couple of settings up. But I want to run all other games at high settings. So it kind of defeats the purpose for me and most others.
TBH a 10%-15% markup of a sponsored AMD game is REALLY not even that huge. Mantle just puts a face to it which is why people make a big deal. How often does a NVIDIA sponsored game run like crap on a AMD computer. Its just how it is.
Everyones talk of "Open" and all that stuff is bullsh*t to be frank. The same arguement could be made that physx is "open". Its built for nvidia hardware / this is built for AMD. AMD sponsors a game, they want it to run better on there devices.
It rarely ever happens or doesn't as much as it should. Like last year AMD made a HUGE push back into gaming. They sponsored a whole sluth of games, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Crysis 3. These games don't really have any incentive to be AMD over NVIDIA nothing exclusive, and no huge performance gain. No one wants to piss off NVIDIA consumers due to the huge market share is kind of the moral of the story. So this is AMD's counter. Not saying its bad or anything, would be cool if nvidia did it, I'm just saying it is how it is. Competition benefits us all, but this isn't really a game changer. I really doubt AMD's pockets will be able to extend it past this point for a while.
No developer will implement Mantle for free is something to keep in mind.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Acer H5360 / BenQ XL2420T + 3D Vision 2 Kit - EVGA GTX 980TI 6GB - i7-3930K@4.0GHz - DX79SI- 16GB RAM@2133 - Win10x64 Home - HTC VIVE
But Valve relies heavily on the general goodwill they have from the general public (sometimes justified, sometime not). If we had to suddenly install a whole new OS just to play one game, that would make things like GFWL and uPlay look positively streamlined and user-friendly. Valve fanboys are famously forgiving, but I'm not sure even they would respond favourably to that.
+1 to this!
No, no....Valve is playing smart...if they will release/make Half-Life 3 it will specially designed for SteamOS (but it will also work on windows/Mac probably). Definitely, this shouldn't HAPPEN at the launch of SteamOS...
If they do this however....I retract my words and Valve is STUPID and plays like every BIG corporation (but so far they haven't shown this..and I am inclined to believe they will not do this either..just a hunch)
I am not a VALVE fanboy or fan, don't get me wrong...I do like/love steam for its features and support/things it offers... I did like HL1/2 much but not that mach to be...desperate about them or be "Valve is GOD" kind of a guy;))
Still, I really want to see the outcome in the future ;))
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Source 2 highly optimised for SteamOS and therefore HL3 to run better on it than in Windows, and maybe have specific support for the new controller that you may not find using a normal kb/m, but exclusivity to SteamOS is a step too far.
i7 4790k @ 4.6 - 16GB RAM - 2x SLI Titan X
27" ASUS ROG SWIFT, 28" - 65" Samsung UHD8200 4k 3DTV - Oculus Rift CV1 - 34" Acer Predator X34 Ultrawide
Old kit:
i5 2500k @ 4.4 - 8gb RAM
Acer H5360BD projector
GTX 580, SLI 670, GTX 980 EVGA SC
Acer XB280HK 4k 60hz
Oculus DK2
not really thrilled by the trailer but seeing UE4 with Rift is nice.
Acer H5360 / BenQ XL2420T + 3D Vision 2 Kit - EVGA GTX 980TI 6GB - i7-3930K@4.0GHz - DX79SI- 16GB RAM@2133 - Win10x64 Home - HTC VIVE
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-mantle-api-real-world-bf4-benchmark-performance-catalyst-141_134959/3
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7728/battlefield-4-mantle-preview
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Mantle-vs-DirectX-Benchmarks-with-Battlefield-4-and-Star-Swarm/
I honestly don't expect to see DX much past 2016. iOS, Android, Mac, and PS4 are all OpenGL. Only Windows and Xbox use DX now. And with MS' hints of Windows becoming Cloud based, and that threat scaring Valve into getting all the indies on board with Linux, I'm just not seeing much future there.
I think people are going to be shocked in 2016, by how cheaply you'll be able to get a Steam machine that's significantly more powerful than PS4 (using just an APU in these budget machines). And the non-Activision/EA/Ubi guys all see the writing on the wall.
My reaction is "Is that it?" That's all we get? 20% one-time bump? And the price we pay is to go back to the wild west of no common API so some games work, some don't? REALLY?!!
Seems like a one-trick pony of getting rid of the draw-calls bottleneck, which I observed can already be avoided if you don't just port from console with no changes to PC, or hell, get a better CPU and call it a day. Seems also clear that all that chatter about the draw-calls bottleneck is wildly overstating the problem.
I'd be more than happy to move to an OpenGL world, I just think having multiple APIs is a terrible, terrible idea. If it was 2x performance, maybe it'd be worth it. 20%?
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
---------------
Now the problem is so I can run some games "better". The rest are normal. I mean I guess thats cool if I was running a mid tier system. I can knock a couple of settings up. But I want to run all other games at high settings. So it kind of defeats the purpose for me and most others.
TBH a 10%-15% markup of a sponsored AMD game is REALLY not even that huge. Mantle just puts a face to it which is why people make a big deal. How often does a NVIDIA sponsored game run like crap on a AMD computer. Its just how it is.
Everyones talk of "Open" and all that stuff is bullsh*t to be frank. The same arguement could be made that physx is "open". Its built for nvidia hardware / this is built for AMD. AMD sponsors a game, they want it to run better on there devices.
It rarely ever happens or doesn't as much as it should. Like last year AMD made a HUGE push back into gaming. They sponsored a whole sluth of games, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Crysis 3. These games don't really have any incentive to be AMD over NVIDIA nothing exclusive, and no huge performance gain. No one wants to piss off NVIDIA consumers due to the huge market share is kind of the moral of the story. So this is AMD's counter. Not saying its bad or anything, would be cool if nvidia did it, I'm just saying it is how it is. Competition benefits us all, but this isn't really a game changer. I really doubt AMD's pockets will be able to extend it past this point for a while.
No developer will implement Mantle for free is something to keep in mind.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com