I haven't played it in a month, so I don't know how the latest update fares, but if you use regular dual-camera 3D, the game has been fully playable and very enjoyable in 3D. (Compatibility mode is horrible in this game, make sure you switch it to regular dual-camera 3D)
You will see bugs though, but nothing game-breaking.
I haven't played it in a month, so I don't know how the latest update fares, but if you use regular dual-camera 3D, the game has been fully playable and very enjoyable in 3D. (Compatibility mode is horrible in this game, make sure you switch it to regular dual-camera 3D)
You will see bugs though, but nothing game-breaking.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote="sebastatu"]What is dual camera 3D? you mean full 3D vision at 120hz?[/quote]
It's not the hardware, it's the way the driver renders the stereoscopic set of Left/Right eye images (purely software).
There are 2 ways the 3D Vision driver can create the stereoscopic 3D image :
-Dual camera : also called "real/proper 3D" renders the entire scene twice, once per eye. the geometric placement of polygons is perfect but shaders sometimes break (usually projection based shaders, like dynamic shadows, use an incorrect camera position), and the workload on the GPU is doubled. (it means you'll have half the framerate in GPU intensive games)
-Reprojection : also called "3D Vision compatibility mode", renders the scene once (same as is 2D), then the driver uses the Z-buffer to determine the depth of each pixel, and then applies a horizontal displacement to match the position these pixels would have if seen from each eye's perspective. It is very light on the GPU (only requires a single shader pass over each pixel of the screen).
The result is usually a very clean image (shaders usually work well) but has severe limitations : occluded pixels are missing (what's behind objects one eye can see but the other can't), the driver must guess what's behind, and it's usually very wrong, making it impossible to use high convergence and high separation (weak 3D effect or else big headaches) and it also can only have a single depth position per pixel (transparent objects collapse the depth of objects behind them, or the background collapses to the transparent object depending on the way the game's engine is set up).
HUDs are also projected at the depth of whatever is behind them (often not usually desired)
Warframe looks horrible with comaptibility mode, you must use the proper dual-camera rendering.
Press CTRL+ALT+F11 to sswitch between the two.
sebastatu said:What is dual camera 3D? you mean full 3D vision at 120hz?
It's not the hardware, it's the way the driver renders the stereoscopic set of Left/Right eye images (purely software).
There are 2 ways the 3D Vision driver can create the stereoscopic 3D image :
-Dual camera : also called "real/proper 3D" renders the entire scene twice, once per eye. the geometric placement of polygons is perfect but shaders sometimes break (usually projection based shaders, like dynamic shadows, use an incorrect camera position), and the workload on the GPU is doubled. (it means you'll have half the framerate in GPU intensive games)
-Reprojection : also called "3D Vision compatibility mode", renders the scene once (same as is 2D), then the driver uses the Z-buffer to determine the depth of each pixel, and then applies a horizontal displacement to match the position these pixels would have if seen from each eye's perspective. It is very light on the GPU (only requires a single shader pass over each pixel of the screen).
The result is usually a very clean image (shaders usually work well) but has severe limitations : occluded pixels are missing (what's behind objects one eye can see but the other can't), the driver must guess what's behind, and it's usually very wrong, making it impossible to use high convergence and high separation (weak 3D effect or else big headaches) and it also can only have a single depth position per pixel (transparent objects collapse the depth of objects behind them, or the background collapses to the transparent object depending on the way the game's engine is set up).
HUDs are also projected at the depth of whatever is behind them (often not usually desired)
Warframe looks horrible with comaptibility mode, you must use the proper dual-camera rendering.
Press CTRL+ALT+F11 to sswitch between the two.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Actually, those are not the best terms to use for the different 3D. Using "reprojection" is a bad choice, because that has a specific meaning in the VR space, and is also not a good description of how fake-3D/Compatibility Mode works. We also use the "reprojection" when fixing shaders, so using it to describe fake-3D will just lead to needless confusion.
In order to communicate, we need to use the same words or terms.
The most common term for Compatibility Mode 3D is "fake-3D". On this forum, we nearly always use that term. That's the same type of 3D used in Crysis 2 and 3. It uses the depth buffer to calculate the second viewpoint, and as BlackSharkFr describes, it always has haloing or stretching around items that are visually up close.
We use the term "true-3D" (sometimes "real-3D") for the kind generated by 3D Vision Automatic, where it creates an entire second viewpoint for the second eye. This is 3D like you get from a 3D camera, or a ViewMaster, or Stereograms, or quality 3D movies like Avatar.
All of the fixes on HelixModBlog are "true-3D" fixes. CM/z-buffer/fake-3D/power-3D/SuperDepth are all forms of fake-3D.
As a rough idea, I think that if people can play in true-3D, that is the preferred approach. If it's not possible for some reason, like performance, no true-3D fix available, or broken visual effects, then fake-3D can be a workable approach.
Everyone is different though, and have different preferences.
Actually, those are not the best terms to use for the different 3D. Using "reprojection" is a bad choice, because that has a specific meaning in the VR space, and is also not a good description of how fake-3D/Compatibility Mode works. We also use the "reprojection" when fixing shaders, so using it to describe fake-3D will just lead to needless confusion.
In order to communicate, we need to use the same words or terms.
The most common term for Compatibility Mode 3D is "fake-3D". On this forum, we nearly always use that term. That's the same type of 3D used in Crysis 2 and 3. It uses the depth buffer to calculate the second viewpoint, and as BlackSharkFr describes, it always has haloing or stretching around items that are visually up close.
We use the term "true-3D" (sometimes "real-3D") for the kind generated by 3D Vision Automatic, where it creates an entire second viewpoint for the second eye. This is 3D like you get from a 3D camera, or a ViewMaster, or Stereograms, or quality 3D movies like Avatar.
All of the fixes on HelixModBlog are "true-3D" fixes. CM/z-buffer/fake-3D/power-3D/SuperDepth are all forms of fake-3D.
As a rough idea, I think that if people can play in true-3D, that is the preferred approach. If it's not possible for some reason, like performance, no true-3D fix available, or broken visual effects, then fake-3D can be a workable approach.
Everyone is different though, and have different preferences.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Thanks Bo3b..
I can tell difference right away betwen fake 3D and real 3D like 3d Vision. Since you mentioned "CM/z-buffer/fake-3D/power-3D/SuperDepth are all forms of fake-3D."
What kind of 3d is used by Tridef3d? Is it true 3D or fake 3D?
I can tell difference right away betwen fake 3D and real 3D like 3d Vision. Since you mentioned "CM/z-buffer/fake-3D/power-3D/SuperDepth are all forms of fake-3D."
What kind of 3d is used by Tridef3d? Is it true 3D or fake 3D?
Tridef provides both true 3D and Power 3D (fake3D).
It also has lots of features to ajust depth and convergence dynamically based on the scene (quite complex to set up the first time but very practical in games with heavyly zoomed cutscenes)
(Warframe doesn't need it, but other games like the mass effect series benefits a lot from this feature)
Tridef provides both true 3D and Power 3D (fake3D).
It also has lots of features to ajust depth and convergence dynamically based on the scene (quite complex to set up the first time but very practical in games with heavyly zoomed cutscenes)
(Warframe doesn't need it, but other games like the mass effect series benefits a lot from this feature)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]Tridef provides both true 3D and Power 3D (fake3D).
It also has lots of features to ajust depth and convergence dynamically based on the scene (quite complex to set up the first time but very practical in games with heavyly zoomed cutscenes)
(Warframe doesn't need it, but other games like the mass effect series benefits a lot from this feature)
[/quote]
I am puzzled by this. So it is just like saying a girl's boobs are both fake and real? wut?
So what does Tridef 3D provide and does it worth a purchase while we have excellent fixes provided by bo3b and others?
BlackSharkfr said:Tridef provides both true 3D and Power 3D (fake3D).
It also has lots of features to ajust depth and convergence dynamically based on the scene (quite complex to set up the first time but very practical in games with heavyly zoomed cutscenes)
(Warframe doesn't need it, but other games like the mass effect series benefits a lot from this feature)
I am puzzled by this. So it is just like saying a girl's boobs are both fake and real? wut?
So what does Tridef 3D provide and does it worth a purchase while we have excellent fixes provided by bo3b and others?
8700K 5.0Ghz OC (Silicon Lottery Edition)
Noctua NH-15 cooler
Asus Maximus X Hero
16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM DDR4 3000
1TB Samsung PM961 OEM M.2 NVMe
MSI Gaming X Trio 1080Ti SLI
Corsair 1000RMi PSU
Cougar Conquer Case
Triple Screens Acer Predator 3D Vision XB272
3D Vision 2 Glasses
Win 10 Pro x64
The real/fake 3D comes from the very poor post-process 3D of the movie industry at the beginning of the 3D renaissance. It was used to shame studios which tried to cash-in on the 3D hype without spending the actual time to do it properly.
At that time, there were only 2 types of 3D movies :
- "Real" 3D movies shot on a proper dual-camera system
- "Fake" 3D movies shot on a 2D camera and artificial 3D added by special effects artists (who used to do horrible job at the time)
(We now have good conversions of movies shot in 2D and converted to 3D that actually look good. But is not guaranteed, some studios still screw it up)
The terms got reused here in the 3D Vision rendering for something similar but in a different context.
- The standard 3D Vision stereoscopic rending method using dual-cameras. It is called "True 3D"
- The Z-buffer stereoscopic rendering method (Nvidia calls it 3D Vision compatibility-mode) using a single 2D camera and then calculate the two stereo views using the colour of the single 2D view and the depth data from the Z-buffer (data which is already there, created internally by the GPU during normal 2D rendering), it is called "Fake 3D"
It is just as "real" as the other rendering method (based on actual depth data), but it's quality obviously inferior to proper dual-camera rendering.
Tridef provides both methods just like 3D Vision.
Tridef has some advantages and some drawbacks compared to 3D Vision.
Advantages :
+ GPU neutral (works with both Nvidia and AMD GPUs)
+ Hardware neutral (you can manually select your display output type, such as Side-by-Side, Over-Under, Interlaced, at any resolution etc... No EDID Hack required)
+ Redering is usually better out of the box than Nvidia 3D Vision (before the very nice shader hackers come in and do their magic)
+ An in-game UI for tweaking most of the 3D rendering settings
+ One-eye aiming mode (keeps one eye lined up with the original 2D camera in order to match aiming sights, mouse cursors etc... this feature has been added very recently in 3D Migoto)
+ Autofocus (dynamically adjusts convergence depending on what's on screen, extremely useful in games with cinematics that constantly move the camera close-up or far away, you don't have to manually press a button on your keyboard to change the settings)
Drawbacks :
- No longer supported (the dev team is gone, only one guy deals with sales and activation issues... part time)
- Does not support the Nvidia-exclusive "3D Vision certified" monitors which do not have any additional hdmi 1.4a compatible 3D inputs
- No shader hacker community
- No SLI or Crossfire support (Single GPU performance only)
But what is most important about Tridef is that is gives an extra choice in case you cannot get your game to work the way you want with 3D Vision.
If you have a little money available and you are a 3D fan, I strongly recommend you get your hands on every possible 3D Driver out there, including Tridef.
There is a 1 month free trial, so you can try before you buy.
One very important thing to know about Tridef : the licence is tied to your machine and is not transferrable. Make sure you install it on the actual machine you want to use it on. And you need to buy it again if buy a new computer.
The real/fake 3D comes from the very poor post-process 3D of the movie industry at the beginning of the 3D renaissance. It was used to shame studios which tried to cash-in on the 3D hype without spending the actual time to do it properly.
At that time, there were only 2 types of 3D movies :
- "Real" 3D movies shot on a proper dual-camera system
- "Fake" 3D movies shot on a 2D camera and artificial 3D added by special effects artists (who used to do horrible job at the time)
(We now have good conversions of movies shot in 2D and converted to 3D that actually look good. But is not guaranteed, some studios still screw it up)
The terms got reused here in the 3D Vision rendering for something similar but in a different context.
- The standard 3D Vision stereoscopic rending method using dual-cameras. It is called "True 3D"
- The Z-buffer stereoscopic rendering method (Nvidia calls it 3D Vision compatibility-mode) using a single 2D camera and then calculate the two stereo views using the colour of the single 2D view and the depth data from the Z-buffer (data which is already there, created internally by the GPU during normal 2D rendering), it is called "Fake 3D"
It is just as "real" as the other rendering method (based on actual depth data), but it's quality obviously inferior to proper dual-camera rendering.
Tridef provides both methods just like 3D Vision.
Tridef has some advantages and some drawbacks compared to 3D Vision.
Advantages :
+ GPU neutral (works with both Nvidia and AMD GPUs)
+ Hardware neutral (you can manually select your display output type, such as Side-by-Side, Over-Under, Interlaced, at any resolution etc... No EDID Hack required)
+ Redering is usually better out of the box than Nvidia 3D Vision (before the very nice shader hackers come in and do their magic)
+ An in-game UI for tweaking most of the 3D rendering settings
+ One-eye aiming mode (keeps one eye lined up with the original 2D camera in order to match aiming sights, mouse cursors etc... this feature has been added very recently in 3D Migoto)
+ Autofocus (dynamically adjusts convergence depending on what's on screen, extremely useful in games with cinematics that constantly move the camera close-up or far away, you don't have to manually press a button on your keyboard to change the settings)
Drawbacks :
- No longer supported (the dev team is gone, only one guy deals with sales and activation issues... part time)
- Does not support the Nvidia-exclusive "3D Vision certified" monitors which do not have any additional hdmi 1.4a compatible 3D inputs
- No shader hacker community
- No SLI or Crossfire support (Single GPU performance only)
But what is most important about Tridef is that is gives an extra choice in case you cannot get your game to work the way you want with 3D Vision.
If you have a little money available and you are a 3D fan, I strongly recommend you get your hands on every possible 3D Driver out there, including Tridef.
There is a 1 month free trial, so you can try before you buy.
One very important thing to know about Tridef : the licence is tied to your machine and is not transferrable. Make sure you install it on the actual machine you want to use it on. And you need to buy it again if buy a new computer.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
Using carboard 3D to illustrate 3D rendering is confusing, because there are 2 different phenomenons :
- objects are flat planes
- there are visible gaps behind objects
When using Z-buffer 3D (3D Vision compatibility mode) you get the visible gaps issue, but objects do have volume. The issue is often that it is hard to increase the strength of the 3D effect enough without being bothered by the gaps. so objects often look squashed due to that compromise with low 3D strength.
When playing 2D games, you get the "objects are flat" phenomenon : for example in games like Ori and the Blind Forest, Limbo, Rayman, etc... these games look gorgeous in flat-planes 3D.
The reason being that modern 2D games are rendered in 3D engines, and they have lots of layers.
And they often have some layers fully 3D rendered, and they look gorgeous. (these 3D rendered 2D painted objects look a lot like Disney's "Deep Canvas" effects)
Using carboard 3D to illustrate 3D rendering is confusing, because there are 2 different phenomenons :
- objects are flat planes
- there are visible gaps behind objects
When using Z-buffer 3D (3D Vision compatibility mode) you get the visible gaps issue, but objects do have volume. The issue is often that it is hard to increase the strength of the 3D effect enough without being bothered by the gaps. so objects often look squashed due to that compromise with low 3D strength.
When playing 2D games, you get the "objects are flat" phenomenon : for example in games like Ori and the Blind Forest, Limbo, Rayman, etc... these games look gorgeous in flat-planes 3D.
The reason being that modern 2D games are rendered in 3D engines, and they have lots of layers.
And they often have some layers fully 3D rendered, and they look gorgeous. (these 3D rendered 2D painted objects look a lot like Disney's "Deep Canvas" effects)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
You will see bugs though, but nothing game-breaking.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
It's not the hardware, it's the way the driver renders the stereoscopic set of Left/Right eye images (purely software).
There are 2 ways the 3D Vision driver can create the stereoscopic 3D image :
-Dual camera : also called "real/proper 3D" renders the entire scene twice, once per eye. the geometric placement of polygons is perfect but shaders sometimes break (usually projection based shaders, like dynamic shadows, use an incorrect camera position), and the workload on the GPU is doubled. (it means you'll have half the framerate in GPU intensive games)
-Reprojection : also called "3D Vision compatibility mode", renders the scene once (same as is 2D), then the driver uses the Z-buffer to determine the depth of each pixel, and then applies a horizontal displacement to match the position these pixels would have if seen from each eye's perspective. It is very light on the GPU (only requires a single shader pass over each pixel of the screen).
The result is usually a very clean image (shaders usually work well) but has severe limitations : occluded pixels are missing (what's behind objects one eye can see but the other can't), the driver must guess what's behind, and it's usually very wrong, making it impossible to use high convergence and high separation (weak 3D effect or else big headaches) and it also can only have a single depth position per pixel (transparent objects collapse the depth of objects behind them, or the background collapses to the transparent object depending on the way the game's engine is set up).
HUDs are also projected at the depth of whatever is behind them (often not usually desired)
Warframe looks horrible with comaptibility mode, you must use the proper dual-camera rendering.
Press CTRL+ALT+F11 to sswitch between the two.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
I appreciate it.
In order to communicate, we need to use the same words or terms.
The most common term for Compatibility Mode 3D is "fake-3D". On this forum, we nearly always use that term. That's the same type of 3D used in Crysis 2 and 3. It uses the depth buffer to calculate the second viewpoint, and as BlackSharkFr describes, it always has haloing or stretching around items that are visually up close.
We use the term "true-3D" (sometimes "real-3D") for the kind generated by 3D Vision Automatic, where it creates an entire second viewpoint for the second eye. This is 3D like you get from a 3D camera, or a ViewMaster, or Stereograms, or quality 3D movies like Avatar.
All of the fixes on HelixModBlog are "true-3D" fixes. CM/z-buffer/fake-3D/power-3D/SuperDepth are all forms of fake-3D.
As a rough idea, I think that if people can play in true-3D, that is the preferred approach. If it's not possible for some reason, like performance, no true-3D fix available, or broken visual effects, then fake-3D can be a workable approach.
Everyone is different though, and have different preferences.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I can tell difference right away betwen fake 3D and real 3D like 3d Vision. Since you mentioned "CM/z-buffer/fake-3D/power-3D/SuperDepth are all forms of fake-3D."
What kind of 3d is used by Tridef3d? Is it true 3D or fake 3D?
It also has lots of features to ajust depth and convergence dynamically based on the scene (quite complex to set up the first time but very practical in games with heavyly zoomed cutscenes)
(Warframe doesn't need it, but other games like the mass effect series benefits a lot from this feature)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
I am puzzled by this. So it is just like saying a girl's boobs are both fake and real? wut?
So what does Tridef 3D provide and does it worth a purchase while we have excellent fixes provided by bo3b and others?
8700K 5.0Ghz OC (Silicon Lottery Edition)
Noctua NH-15 cooler
Asus Maximus X Hero
16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM DDR4 3000
1TB Samsung PM961 OEM M.2 NVMe
MSI Gaming X Trio 1080Ti SLI
Corsair 1000RMi PSU
Cougar Conquer Case
Triple Screens Acer Predator 3D Vision XB272
3D Vision 2 Glasses
Win 10 Pro x64
At that time, there were only 2 types of 3D movies :
- "Real" 3D movies shot on a proper dual-camera system
- "Fake" 3D movies shot on a 2D camera and artificial 3D added by special effects artists (who used to do horrible job at the time)
(We now have good conversions of movies shot in 2D and converted to 3D that actually look good. But is not guaranteed, some studios still screw it up)
The terms got reused here in the 3D Vision rendering for something similar but in a different context.
- The standard 3D Vision stereoscopic rending method using dual-cameras. It is called "True 3D"
- The Z-buffer stereoscopic rendering method (Nvidia calls it 3D Vision compatibility-mode) using a single 2D camera and then calculate the two stereo views using the colour of the single 2D view and the depth data from the Z-buffer (data which is already there, created internally by the GPU during normal 2D rendering), it is called "Fake 3D"
It is just as "real" as the other rendering method (based on actual depth data), but it's quality obviously inferior to proper dual-camera rendering.
Tridef provides both methods just like 3D Vision.
Tridef has some advantages and some drawbacks compared to 3D Vision.
Advantages :
+ GPU neutral (works with both Nvidia and AMD GPUs)
+ Hardware neutral (you can manually select your display output type, such as Side-by-Side, Over-Under, Interlaced, at any resolution etc... No EDID Hack required)
+ Redering is usually better out of the box than Nvidia 3D Vision (before the very nice shader hackers come in and do their magic)
+ An in-game UI for tweaking most of the 3D rendering settings
+ One-eye aiming mode (keeps one eye lined up with the original 2D camera in order to match aiming sights, mouse cursors etc... this feature has been added very recently in 3D Migoto)
+ Autofocus (dynamically adjusts convergence depending on what's on screen, extremely useful in games with cinematics that constantly move the camera close-up or far away, you don't have to manually press a button on your keyboard to change the settings)
Drawbacks :
- No longer supported (the dev team is gone, only one guy deals with sales and activation issues... part time)
- Does not support the Nvidia-exclusive "3D Vision certified" monitors which do not have any additional hdmi 1.4a compatible 3D inputs
- No shader hacker community
- No SLI or Crossfire support (Single GPU performance only)
But what is most important about Tridef is that is gives an extra choice in case you cannot get your game to work the way you want with 3D Vision.
If you have a little money available and you are a 3D fan, I strongly recommend you get your hands on every possible 3D Driver out there, including Tridef.
There is a 1 month free trial, so you can try before you buy.
One very important thing to know about Tridef : the licence is tied to your machine and is not transferrable. Make sure you install it on the actual machine you want to use it on. And you need to buy it again if buy a new computer.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
- objects are flat planes
- there are visible gaps behind objects
When using Z-buffer 3D (3D Vision compatibility mode) you get the visible gaps issue, but objects do have volume. The issue is often that it is hard to increase the strength of the 3D effect enough without being bothered by the gaps. so objects often look squashed due to that compromise with low 3D strength.
When playing 2D games, you get the "objects are flat" phenomenon : for example in games like Ori and the Blind Forest, Limbo, Rayman, etc... these games look gorgeous in flat-planes 3D.
The reason being that modern 2D games are rendered in 3D engines, and they have lots of layers.
And they often have some layers fully 3D rendered, and they look gorgeous. (these 3D rendered 2D painted objects look a lot like Disney's "Deep Canvas" effects)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter