Hello everybody,
I'm trying to get my head around all of this stereo 3D on PC business and am having some problems understanding the concept of nVidia's 3D Vision solution. I would like to kindly ask for some help with the following questions:
1) First of all what exactly is 3D Vision? The impression I got so far is, that this is a pack of glasses, USB IR emitter, graphics card drivers and 3D Vision PC software for GeForce graphics cards. Is this about right?
2) I read somewhere that when using 3D Vision, quote: "NVIDIA’s advanced software, automatically converts over 350 games to stereoscopic 3D without the need for special game patches." So Is the main part of 3D Vision in fact some sort of middleware sitting between the application (usually a PC game) and graphics card drivers which eases 3D game development? So there is no need for game developers to make a 3D version of their game since 3D Vision software (middleware?) will convert 3D models used in the game into 3D images (left and right) automatically if enabling 3D?
3) A 3D Vision compatible monitor seems to be a requirement for using 3D Vision graphics cards (alternatively 3DTV Play and 3D TV or projector can be used). My question is what makes a 3D monitor 3D Vision compatible? Is it the 120 Hz refresh rate and integrated IR emitter with which nVidia's 3D glasses work? Or is there a special communications protocol implemented for transfering 3D images from the graphics card to the monitor and both need to implement it?
4) Related to my previous question: If a monitor is 120 Hz but not 3D Vision compatible, will it still work? Is this where 3DTV Play comes in? If so, what does 3DTV Play do? Converts the output format of 3D content? Translates from 3D Vision "communication protocol" I am wondering about in my previous question?
5) This question may get answered along with the previous one but just in case: why must a 3D TV or projector be supported by 3DTV Play? What are the criteria which are checked to determine if a 3D display is compatible/supported by 3DTV Play?
6) Does 3D Vision implement it's own 3D content format, like SBS, frame-sequential ...?
7) Is 3D Vision even required for outputting 3D content from the graphics card? I would think not. Would I think wrong?
I have scoured the web for information but would still be grateful for any links explaining what I am asking above if anyone knows of any good ones.
Thank you in advance for all your help.
Cheers!
I'm trying to get my head around all of this stereo 3D on PC business and am having some problems understanding the concept of nVidia's 3D Vision solution. I would like to kindly ask for some help with the following questions:
1) First of all what exactly is 3D Vision? The impression I got so far is, that this is a pack of glasses, USB IR emitter, graphics card drivers and 3D Vision PC software for GeForce graphics cards. Is this about right?
2) I read somewhere that when using 3D Vision, quote: "NVIDIA’s advanced software, automatically converts over 350 games to stereoscopic 3D without the need for special game patches." So Is the main part of 3D Vision in fact some sort of middleware sitting between the application (usually a PC game) and graphics card drivers which eases 3D game development? So there is no need for game developers to make a 3D version of their game since 3D Vision software (middleware?) will convert 3D models used in the game into 3D images (left and right) automatically if enabling 3D?
3) A 3D Vision compatible monitor seems to be a requirement for using 3D Vision graphics cards (alternatively 3DTV Play and 3D TV or projector can be used). My question is what makes a 3D monitor 3D Vision compatible? Is it the 120 Hz refresh rate and integrated IR emitter with which nVidia's 3D glasses work? Or is there a special communications protocol implemented for transfering 3D images from the graphics card to the monitor and both need to implement it?
4) Related to my previous question: If a monitor is 120 Hz but not 3D Vision compatible, will it still work? Is this where 3DTV Play comes in? If so, what does 3DTV Play do? Converts the output format of 3D content? Translates from 3D Vision "communication protocol" I am wondering about in my previous question?
5) This question may get answered along with the previous one but just in case: why must a 3D TV or projector be supported by 3DTV Play? What are the criteria which are checked to determine if a 3D display is compatible/supported by 3DTV Play?
6) Does 3D Vision implement it's own 3D content format, like SBS, frame-sequential ...?
7) Is 3D Vision even required for outputting 3D content from the graphics card? I would think not. Would I think wrong?
I have scoured the web for information but would still be grateful for any links explaining what I am asking above if anyone knows of any good ones.
1) Yep
2) Correct, basically 3d vision converts any directx game to stereoscopic 3d no matter if developers supported it or not.
3) A 3d vision monitor has to be specifically supported by NVidia http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-displays.html for it to work with 3d vision.
4) I don't think so. 3DTV Play is mostly designed to make HDMI 1.4 compliant 3d screens to work with 3d vision, it's basically the same thing but only for that kind of screens, it won't help your non 3d vision monitor become 3d vision ready.
5) 3d tv play devices work with the software from day one. afaik you can tweak the config of some projectors to work as 3d tv play compliant devices, but I'm no expert here, someone should answer you better, but in any case, most of the times if it's not specifically supported by Nvidia, it won't work.
6) no idea really.
7) it is, at least for Nvidia cards of course, ATI have their own solution for this.
4) I don't think so. 3DTV Play is mostly designed to make HDMI 1.4 compliant 3d screens to work with 3d vision, it's basically the same thing but only for that kind of screens, it won't help your non 3d vision monitor become 3d vision ready.
5) 3d tv play devices work with the software from day one. afaik you can tweak the config of some projectors to work as 3d tv play compliant devices, but I'm no expert here, someone should answer you better, but in any case, most of the times if it's not specifically supported by Nvidia, it won't work.
6) no idea really.
7) it is, at least for Nvidia cards of course, ATI have their own solution for this.
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
1) "3DVision" is a set of software and hardware designed to deliver a Stereoscopic 3D experience on a PC.
2) Yes, the software portion is "middleware" designed to create two unique views from a single image(frame).
3) You have to use an approved 3DVision monitor or you may be able to use "3DPlay" and a HDMI 1.4a compatible display.
4) "3Dplay" is for HDMI 1.4a compatible 3DTV's and some monitors that can display SBS or TB S3D content.
5) This may of changed a few driver releases ago. Some displays may still need to be 'tweaked' to work with 3DPlay.
6) "3DVision" mostly uses a dual link DVI connector+format.
7) No. A very small percentage of games can/do create their own S3D images and drive a few different formats. (normally HDMI 1.4a) However this list is very small. Somewhat more may have 'S3D Support' built into them but require 3DVision or Tridef+AMD middleware solutions to actually display a S3D image.
1) "3DVision" is a set of software and hardware designed to deliver a Stereoscopic 3D experience on a PC.
2) Yes, the software portion is "middleware" designed to create two unique views from a single image(frame).
3) You have to use an approved 3DVision monitor or you may be able to use "3DPlay" and a HDMI 1.4a compatible display.
4) "3Dplay" is for HDMI 1.4a compatible 3DTV's and some monitors that can display SBS or TB S3D content.
5) This may of changed a few driver releases ago. Some displays may still need to be 'tweaked' to work with 3DPlay.
6) "3DVision" mostly uses a dual link DVI connector+format.
7) No. A very small percentage of games can/do create their own S3D images and drive a few different formats. (normally HDMI 1.4a) However this list is very small. Somewhat more may have 'S3D Support' built into them but require 3DVision or Tridef+AMD middleware solutions to actually display a S3D image.
Birthright covered it pretty well, but I'll add a few notes.
2) This automatic conversion doesn't always work properly, resulting in problems like shadows only rendering in one eye, reflections looking messed up, and objects appearing at incorrect depth. However there are community fixes for the vast majority of games which allow most titles to be played in perfect 3d.
6) It's pretty much frame sequential, I think. It's active glasses, and you see LRLRLRLR through them.
7) Depends on the content, and the display. Games must be rendered differently for 3d, so they require 3d vision to do this, and the software-driven emitter to sync the glasses. Some content (movies mainly) are in side-by-side format, which many 3d displays can convert automatically. In this case, you don't need 3d vision. Almost no games support side by side though.
Birthright covered it pretty well, but I'll add a few notes.
2) This automatic conversion doesn't always work properly, resulting in problems like shadows only rendering in one eye, reflections looking messed up, and objects appearing at incorrect depth. However there are community fixes for the vast majority of games which allow most titles to be played in perfect 3d.
6) It's pretty much frame sequential, I think. It's active glasses, and you see LRLRLRLR through them.
7) Depends on the content, and the display. Games must be rendered differently for 3d, so they require 3d vision to do this, and the software-driven emitter to sync the glasses. Some content (movies mainly) are in side-by-side format, which many 3d displays can convert automatically. In this case, you don't need 3d vision. Almost no games support side by side though.
[quote="mbloof"]4) "3Dplay" is for HDMI 1.4a compatible 3DTV's and some monitors that can display SBS or TB S3D content.[/quote]
Wrong! 3DTV Play does not "officially" support any monitors. Nor does it support small sized HD 3DTVs, such as the 23 inch LG passive TV. Unless Nvidia has unknowingly changed their size restriction recently.
EDIT: it should be noted that 3DTV Play does support the TMZ-H1 and TMZ-H2 from Sony, which are not considered monitors.
[quote="mbloof"]6) "3DVision" mostly uses a dual link DVI connector+format.[/quote]
Correct, 1920x1080P@120Hz is only available via a Dual Link DVI-D connection although it might be working with Display port also now. When using VGA or HDMI only 1280x720P@120Hz is possible via 3D Vision
mbloof said:4) "3Dplay" is for HDMI 1.4a compatible 3DTV's and some monitors that can display SBS or TB S3D content.
Wrong! 3DTV Play does not "officially" support any monitors. Nor does it support small sized HD 3DTVs, such as the 23 inch LG passive TV. Unless Nvidia has unknowingly changed their size restriction recently.
EDIT: it should be noted that 3DTV Play does support the TMZ-H1 and TMZ-H2 from Sony, which are not considered monitors.
mbloof said:6) "3DVision" mostly uses a dual link DVI connector+format.
Correct, 1920x1080P@120Hz is only available via a Dual Link DVI-D connection although it might be working with Display port also now. When using VGA or HDMI only 1280x720P@120Hz is possible via 3D Vision
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Birthright covered it pretty well, but I'll add a few notes.
2) This automatic conversion doesn't always work properly, resulting in problems like shadows only rendering in one eye, reflections looking messed up, and objects appearing at incorrect depth. However there are community fixes for the vast majority of games which allow most titles to be played in perfect 3d.[/quote]
It's mainly up to game developers to correctly implement stereoscopic features in their game by proper coding. Nvidia has a best practices guide as well as other information available to developers to help them get it right. Many do not bother for whatever reason, my guess is that it's most likely due to penny pinching upper management.
http://developer.download.nvidia.com/whitepapers/2010/3D_Vision_Best_Practices_Guide.pdf
Nvidia 3D Vision/3DTV Play is not a 2D-3D converter. What it does is render a second offset image using information from the first. To get desirable results, the first image needs to contain addition information so that the second image isn't a disaster. Some of this information is inherent, so thru no action of the developer a game might turn out fair/good. But for a game to be great, developers need to input additional information and take certain things into consideration, like HUD/UI placement and depth, camera management, video settings, performance, optomization, second renderings and depth of shaders, etc....
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]6) It's pretty much frame sequential, I think. It's active glasses, and you see LRLRLRLR through them.[/quote]
3D Vision only supports Frame Sequential and Checkerboard.
Checkerboard via 3D Vision is only officially supported on early rear projection Mitsubishi 3D HDTVs.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]7) Depends on the content, and the display. Games must be rendered differently for 3d, so they require 3d vision to do this, and the software-driven emitter to sync the glasses. Some content (movies mainly) are in side-by-side format, which many 3d displays can convert automatically. In this case, you don't need 3d vision. Almost no games support side by side though.[/quote]
Old DVD 3D Movies were recorded in Sensio Frame Sequential. Blu-ray 3D Movies are Frame Packed and then displayed via formats supported by the display if capable.(excluding analglyph)
Blu-ray movies can only be ripped to a hard drive in a side by side format.
Games with "native" stereoscopic support often support side by side. TriDef a 3D middleware supports side by side output.
Pirateguybrush said:Birthright covered it pretty well, but I'll add a few notes.
2) This automatic conversion doesn't always work properly, resulting in problems like shadows only rendering in one eye, reflections looking messed up, and objects appearing at incorrect depth. However there are community fixes for the vast majority of games which allow most titles to be played in perfect 3d.
It's mainly up to game developers to correctly implement stereoscopic features in their game by proper coding. Nvidia has a best practices guide as well as other information available to developers to help them get it right. Many do not bother for whatever reason, my guess is that it's most likely due to penny pinching upper management.
Nvidia 3D Vision/3DTV Play is not a 2D-3D converter. What it does is render a second offset image using information from the first. To get desirable results, the first image needs to contain addition information so that the second image isn't a disaster. Some of this information is inherent, so thru no action of the developer a game might turn out fair/good. But for a game to be great, developers need to input additional information and take certain things into consideration, like HUD/UI placement and depth, camera management, video settings, performance, optomization, second renderings and depth of shaders, etc....
Pirateguybrush said:6) It's pretty much frame sequential, I think. It's active glasses, and you see LRLRLRLR through them.
3D Vision only supports Frame Sequential and Checkerboard.
Checkerboard via 3D Vision is only officially supported on early rear projection Mitsubishi 3D HDTVs.
Pirateguybrush said:7) Depends on the content, and the display. Games must be rendered differently for 3d, so they require 3d vision to do this, and the software-driven emitter to sync the glasses. Some content (movies mainly) are in side-by-side format, which many 3d displays can convert automatically. In this case, you don't need 3d vision. Almost no games support side by side though.
Old DVD 3D Movies were recorded in Sensio Frame Sequential. Blu-ray 3D Movies are Frame Packed and then displayed via formats supported by the display if capable.(excluding analglyph)
Blu-ray movies can only be ripped to a hard drive in a side by side format.
Games with "native" stereoscopic support often support side by side. TriDef a 3D middleware supports side by side output.
I'm trying to get my head around all of this stereo 3D on PC business and am having some problems understanding the concept of nVidia's 3D Vision solution. I would like to kindly ask for some help with the following questions:
1) First of all what exactly is 3D Vision? The impression I got so far is, that this is a pack of glasses, USB IR emitter, graphics card drivers and 3D Vision PC software for GeForce graphics cards. Is this about right?
2) I read somewhere that when using 3D Vision, quote: "NVIDIA’s advanced software, automatically converts over 350 games to stereoscopic 3D without the need for special game patches." So Is the main part of 3D Vision in fact some sort of middleware sitting between the application (usually a PC game) and graphics card drivers which eases 3D game development? So there is no need for game developers to make a 3D version of their game since 3D Vision software (middleware?) will convert 3D models used in the game into 3D images (left and right) automatically if enabling 3D?
3) A 3D Vision compatible monitor seems to be a requirement for using 3D Vision graphics cards (alternatively 3DTV Play and 3D TV or projector can be used). My question is what makes a 3D monitor 3D Vision compatible? Is it the 120 Hz refresh rate and integrated IR emitter with which nVidia's 3D glasses work? Or is there a special communications protocol implemented for transfering 3D images from the graphics card to the monitor and both need to implement it?
4) Related to my previous question: If a monitor is 120 Hz but not 3D Vision compatible, will it still work? Is this where 3DTV Play comes in? If so, what does 3DTV Play do? Converts the output format of 3D content? Translates from 3D Vision "communication protocol" I am wondering about in my previous question?
5) This question may get answered along with the previous one but just in case: why must a 3D TV or projector be supported by 3DTV Play? What are the criteria which are checked to determine if a 3D display is compatible/supported by 3DTV Play?
6) Does 3D Vision implement it's own 3D content format, like SBS, frame-sequential ...?
7) Is 3D Vision even required for outputting 3D content from the graphics card? I would think not. Would I think wrong?
I have scoured the web for information but would still be grateful for any links explaining what I am asking above if anyone knows of any good ones.
Thank you in advance for all your help.
Cheers!
2) Correct, basically 3d vision converts any directx game to stereoscopic 3d no matter if developers supported it or not.
3) A 3d vision monitor has to be specifically supported by NVidia http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-displays.html for it to work with 3d vision.
4) I don't think so. 3DTV Play is mostly designed to make HDMI 1.4 compliant 3d screens to work with 3d vision, it's basically the same thing but only for that kind of screens, it won't help your non 3d vision monitor become 3d vision ready.
5) 3d tv play devices work with the software from day one. afaik you can tweak the config of some projectors to work as 3d tv play compliant devices, but I'm no expert here, someone should answer you better, but in any case, most of the times if it's not specifically supported by Nvidia, it won't work.
6) no idea really.
7) it is, at least for Nvidia cards of course, ATI have their own solution for this.
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
2) Yes, the software portion is "middleware" designed to create two unique views from a single image(frame).
3) You have to use an approved 3DVision monitor or you may be able to use "3DPlay" and a HDMI 1.4a compatible display.
4) "3Dplay" is for HDMI 1.4a compatible 3DTV's and some monitors that can display SBS or TB S3D content.
5) This may of changed a few driver releases ago. Some displays may still need to be 'tweaked' to work with 3DPlay.
6) "3DVision" mostly uses a dual link DVI connector+format.
7) No. A very small percentage of games can/do create their own S3D images and drive a few different formats. (normally HDMI 1.4a) However this list is very small. Somewhat more may have 'S3D Support' built into them but require 3DVision or Tridef+AMD middleware solutions to actually display a S3D image.
i7-2600K-4.5Ghz/Corsair H100i/8GB/GTX780SC-SLI/Win7-64/1200W-PSU/Samsung 840-500GB SSD/Coolermaster-Tower/Benq 1080ST @ 100"
2) This automatic conversion doesn't always work properly, resulting in problems like shadows only rendering in one eye, reflections looking messed up, and objects appearing at incorrect depth. However there are community fixes for the vast majority of games which allow most titles to be played in perfect 3d.
6) It's pretty much frame sequential, I think. It's active glasses, and you see LRLRLRLR through them.
7) Depends on the content, and the display. Games must be rendered differently for 3d, so they require 3d vision to do this, and the software-driven emitter to sync the glasses. Some content (movies mainly) are in side-by-side format, which many 3d displays can convert automatically. In this case, you don't need 3d vision. Almost no games support side by side though.
Wrong! 3DTV Play does not "officially" support any monitors. Nor does it support small sized HD 3DTVs, such as the 23 inch LG passive TV. Unless Nvidia has unknowingly changed their size restriction recently.
EDIT: it should be noted that 3DTV Play does support the TMZ-H1 and TMZ-H2 from Sony, which are not considered monitors.
Correct, 1920x1080P@120Hz is only available via a Dual Link DVI-D connection although it might be working with Display port also now. When using VGA or HDMI only 1280x720P@120Hz is possible via 3D Vision
It's mainly up to game developers to correctly implement stereoscopic features in their game by proper coding. Nvidia has a best practices guide as well as other information available to developers to help them get it right. Many do not bother for whatever reason, my guess is that it's most likely due to penny pinching upper management.
http://developer.download.nvidia.com/whitepapers/2010/3D_Vision_Best_Practices_Guide.pdf
Nvidia 3D Vision/3DTV Play is not a 2D-3D converter. What it does is render a second offset image using information from the first. To get desirable results, the first image needs to contain addition information so that the second image isn't a disaster. Some of this information is inherent, so thru no action of the developer a game might turn out fair/good. But for a game to be great, developers need to input additional information and take certain things into consideration, like HUD/UI placement and depth, camera management, video settings, performance, optomization, second renderings and depth of shaders, etc....
3D Vision only supports Frame Sequential and Checkerboard.
Checkerboard via 3D Vision is only officially supported on early rear projection Mitsubishi 3D HDTVs.
Old DVD 3D Movies were recorded in Sensio Frame Sequential. Blu-ray 3D Movies are Frame Packed and then displayed via formats supported by the display if capable.(excluding analglyph)
Blu-ray movies can only be ripped to a hard drive in a side by side format.
Games with "native" stereoscopic support often support side by side. TriDef a 3D middleware supports side by side output.