The Witcher 2 in 3D Vision Official thread from NVIDIA
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[quote]oh, it's all so clear to you both? Then you obviously must know exactly what happened, who screwed up, who's able to fix the code and who can control when this fix is deployed?

Well, if so, then why don't you share this wisdom?

If you know as little as we all do, then keep your mouthes shut, because then you know nothing. Having this logo on the package doesn't mean that nvidia is suddenly responsible for a flawless performance of the title, not even of the 3D functionality.

You obviously know nothing about programming, the things that can go wrong, how responsibilities are distributed if a software works together with a middleware (in this case nVidia's drivers), so please keep your opinions to yourself and don't pretend that you know exactly who is to be blamed.[/quote]

I for one am not a programmer. I am a consumer. When I purchase a product I expect it to work as advertised. Witcher 2 was advertised as being 3D Vision Ready. While not advertising, Andrew also came to this forum and talked about how great the 3D was on this game days before its release.

I'm sure the guys who develop this stuff have a hard job. If I got this game for free perhaps I would be a bit more understanding. Since I paid $50 I don't care how hard it is. I expect it to work, especially since you can't return software and get your money back.

I blame the guys who made the Witcher for shipping a unfinished product, and I blame Nvidia for allowing there logo to placed on a product that doesn't work. I'd gladly take my $50 back at this point. Since that isn't possible, I for one will keep voicing my opinion as often as I like.
oh, it's all so clear to you both? Then you obviously must know exactly what happened, who screwed up, who's able to fix the code and who can control when this fix is deployed?



Well, if so, then why don't you share this wisdom?



If you know as little as we all do, then keep your mouthes shut, because then you know nothing. Having this logo on the package doesn't mean that nvidia is suddenly responsible for a flawless performance of the title, not even of the 3D functionality.



You obviously know nothing about programming, the things that can go wrong, how responsibilities are distributed if a software works together with a middleware (in this case nVidia's drivers), so please keep your opinions to yourself and don't pretend that you know exactly who is to be blamed.




I for one am not a programmer. I am a consumer. When I purchase a product I expect it to work as advertised. Witcher 2 was advertised as being 3D Vision Ready. While not advertising, Andrew also came to this forum and talked about how great the 3D was on this game days before its release.



I'm sure the guys who develop this stuff have a hard job. If I got this game for free perhaps I would be a bit more understanding. Since I paid $50 I don't care how hard it is. I expect it to work, especially since you can't return software and get your money back.



I blame the guys who made the Witcher for shipping a unfinished product, and I blame Nvidia for allowing there logo to placed on a product that doesn't work. I'd gladly take my $50 back at this point. Since that isn't possible, I for one will keep voicing my opinion as often as I like.

Posted 07/14/2011 02:13 PM   
You can blame CDPR for selling a faulty product. You're unsatisfied with it, and you're well in your rights to be.

But you just cannot blame nVidia. They didn't promise anything. They allowed CDPR to put the logo on the box, yes, and in return, they probably even helped them out to make sure that the game is actually working well with 3D Vision and did some testing during development, too.

But what they certainly didn't do is to check the final "gold master" code or even made an agreement to do some QA for CDPR.

Also, the logo doesn't imply a promise by nVidia, it implies a promise by the company that put the sticker on the package. If you buy a product with the text "designed for Windows" and a Windows logo, do you blame this company if it doesn't work properly or do you blame Microsoft?
You can blame CDPR for selling a faulty product. You're unsatisfied with it, and you're well in your rights to be.



But you just cannot blame nVidia. They didn't promise anything. They allowed CDPR to put the logo on the box, yes, and in return, they probably even helped them out to make sure that the game is actually working well with 3D Vision and did some testing during development, too.



But what they certainly didn't do is to check the final "gold master" code or even made an agreement to do some QA for CDPR.



Also, the logo doesn't imply a promise by nVidia, it implies a promise by the company that put the sticker on the package. If you buy a product with the text "designed for Windows" and a Windows logo, do you blame this company if it doesn't work properly or do you blame Microsoft?

Posted 07/14/2011 03:09 PM   
Oh, God, here we are again. I haven't yet read the previous pages in their entirety, but judging from the flow of replies, I suppose someone [i]dared[/i] to not be unconditionally supportive of the developers.
Oh, God, here we are again. I haven't yet read the previous pages in their entirety, but judging from the flow of replies, I suppose someone dared to not be unconditionally supportive of the developers.

Posted 07/14/2011 04:46 PM   
[quote name='Grestorn' date='14 July 2011 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1310656187' post='1264984']
Also, the logo doesn't imply a promise by nVidia, it implies a promise by the company that put the sticker on the package. If you buy a product with the text "designed for Windows" and a Windows logo, do you blame this company if it doesn't work properly or do you blame Microsoft?
[/quote]


3D Vision-Ready Content: built specifically using guidance from NVIDIA's The-Way-It's-Meant-To-Be-Played program. [b]For instance, games that carry the badge [i][u]ensure[/u][/i] menus, heads-up-displays, scenery, and cut scenes are rendered in flawless 3D.[/b]

Here is their promise. Sorry, it's not flawless.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-about.html
[quote name='Grestorn' date='14 July 2011 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1310656187' post='1264984']

Also, the logo doesn't imply a promise by nVidia, it implies a promise by the company that put the sticker on the package. If you buy a product with the text "designed for Windows" and a Windows logo, do you blame this company if it doesn't work properly or do you blame Microsoft?







3D Vision-Ready Content: built specifically using guidance from NVIDIA's The-Way-It's-Meant-To-Be-Played program. For instance, games that carry the badge ensure menus, heads-up-displays, scenery, and cut scenes are rendered in flawless 3D.



Here is their promise. Sorry, it's not flawless.



http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-about.html

Posted 07/14/2011 05:55 PM   
"There is a huge ecosystem of products that directly supports NVIDIA 3D Vision. To help simplify this for consumers, NVIDIA developed the 3D Vision-Ready program that identifies components and content as [b][i][u]being ready[/u][/i][/b] or purposely built for the 3D Vision PC. Only certified products carry the NVIDIA 3D Vision-Ready badge."

Sorry, it's not ready. It will hopefully be eventually though.
"There is a huge ecosystem of products that directly supports NVIDIA 3D Vision. To help simplify this for consumers, NVIDIA developed the 3D Vision-Ready program that identifies components and content as being ready or purposely built for the 3D Vision PC. Only certified products carry the NVIDIA 3D Vision-Ready badge."



Sorry, it's not ready. It will hopefully be eventually though.

Posted 07/14/2011 05:57 PM   
3D Vision fix will be in the next patch (1.3) by CDPR.
3D Vision fix will be in the next patch (1.3) by CDPR.

Posted 07/14/2011 06:04 PM   
[quote name='paolobar2005' date='14 July 2011 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1310661983' post='1265043']
Oh, God, here we are again. I haven't yet read the previous pages in their entirety, but judging from the flow of replies, I suppose someone [i]dared[/i] to not be unconditionally supportive of the developers.
[/quote]

Better to read the previous pages then. I don't think there are many who would disagree that labeling the game "3D ready" is misleading. However, that's not negative enough for some. Anyone who prefers to err on the side of caution when it comes to distributing blame or second-guessing what NVidia and/or CDProject will or won't do about all this is in danger of getting flamed here.
[quote name='paolobar2005' date='14 July 2011 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1310661983' post='1265043']

Oh, God, here we are again. I haven't yet read the previous pages in their entirety, but judging from the flow of replies, I suppose someone dared to not be unconditionally supportive of the developers.





Better to read the previous pages then. I don't think there are many who would disagree that labeling the game "3D ready" is misleading. However, that's not negative enough for some. Anyone who prefers to err on the side of caution when it comes to distributing blame or second-guessing what NVidia and/or CDProject will or won't do about all this is in danger of getting flamed here.

Posted 07/14/2011 09:20 PM   
[quote name='TheUnk' date='14 July 2011 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1310666270' post='1265082']
"There is a huge ecosystem of products that directly supports NVIDIA 3D Vision. To help simplify this for consumers, NVIDIA developed the 3D Vision-Ready program that identifies components and content as [b][i][u]being ready[/u][/i][/b] or purposely built for the 3D Vision PC. Only certified products carry the NVIDIA 3D Vision-Ready badge."

Sorry, it's not ready. It will hopefully be eventually though.
[/quote]
Wow, talk about selective reading. What's that term after "being ready"? The Witcher 2 was purposely built to work with 3D Vision. Just because it hasn't done a good job of it (yet) doesn't mean they didn't try. You might want to look up the other definition of the logo.
[quote name='TheUnk' date='14 July 2011 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1310666270' post='1265082']

"There is a huge ecosystem of products that directly supports NVIDIA 3D Vision. To help simplify this for consumers, NVIDIA developed the 3D Vision-Ready program that identifies components and content as being ready or purposely built for the 3D Vision PC. Only certified products carry the NVIDIA 3D Vision-Ready badge."



Sorry, it's not ready. It will hopefully be eventually though.



Wow, talk about selective reading. What's that term after "being ready"? The Witcher 2 was purposely built to work with 3D Vision. Just because it hasn't done a good job of it (yet) doesn't mean they didn't try. You might want to look up the other definition of the logo.

Posted 07/15/2011 12:03 AM   
[quote name='Zloth' date='14 July 2011 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1310688182' post='1265280']
Wow, talk about selective reading. What's that term after "being ready"? The Witcher 2 was purposely built to work with 3D Vision. Just because it hasn't done a good job of it (yet) doesn't mean they didn't try. You might want to look up the other definition of the logo.
[/quote]

Speaking of selective reading, did you not read the post before that?

3D Vision-Ready Content: built specifically using guidance from NVIDIA's The-Way-It's-Meant-To-Be-Played program. For instance, games that carry the badge ensure menus, heads-up-displays, scenery, and cut scenes are rendered in [b]flawless 3D.[/b]

How is simply trying good enough when the boast flawless 3D for these badged titles?
[quote name='Zloth' date='14 July 2011 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1310688182' post='1265280']

Wow, talk about selective reading. What's that term after "being ready"? The Witcher 2 was purposely built to work with 3D Vision. Just because it hasn't done a good job of it (yet) doesn't mean they didn't try. You might want to look up the other definition of the logo.





Speaking of selective reading, did you not read the post before that?



3D Vision-Ready Content: built specifically using guidance from NVIDIA's The-Way-It's-Meant-To-Be-Played program. For instance, games that carry the badge ensure menus, heads-up-displays, scenery, and cut scenes are rendered in flawless 3D.



How is simply trying good enough when the boast flawless 3D for these badged titles?

Posted 07/15/2011 12:45 AM   
nVidia can guide all they want, it's still the responsibility of the producer of the game to make it work fine, not nVidia's

You see a promise here nVidia never gave and never will give. Because they can't. The just cannot take over the responsibility for something that they cannot control.
nVidia can guide all they want, it's still the responsibility of the producer of the game to make it work fine, not nVidia's



You see a promise here nVidia never gave and never will give. Because they can't. The just cannot take over the responsibility for something that they cannot control.

Posted 07/15/2011 05:12 AM   
[quote name='Grestorn' date='15 July 2011 - 06:12 AM' timestamp='1310706728' post='1265376']
nVidia can guide all they want, it's still the responsibility of the producer of the game to make it work fine, not nVidia's

You see a promise here nVidia never gave and never will give. Because they can't. The just cannot take over the responsibility for something that they cannot control.
[/quote]

You misunderstand. My disappointment is mostly with regards to cd projeckt not nvidia, though in casses like Dragon Age 2 (which still doesn't work in 2d), my disappointing is with nvidia, and rightfully so. Though I am disappointed that nvidia clearly didn't even test the game before stamping it with the 3d vision logo, which does give them some resposibility for this mess, as they did mislead (and essentially lie to) consumers.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='15 July 2011 - 06:12 AM' timestamp='1310706728' post='1265376']

nVidia can guide all they want, it's still the responsibility of the producer of the game to make it work fine, not nVidia's



You see a promise here nVidia never gave and never will give. Because they can't. The just cannot take over the responsibility for something that they cannot control.





You misunderstand. My disappointment is mostly with regards to cd projeckt not nvidia, though in casses like Dragon Age 2 (which still doesn't work in 2d), my disappointing is with nvidia, and rightfully so. Though I am disappointed that nvidia clearly didn't even test the game before stamping it with the 3d vision logo, which does give them some resposibility for this mess, as they did mislead (and essentially lie to) consumers.
Posted 07/15/2011 05:34 AM   
[quote name='Grestorn' date='15 July 2011 - 01:12 AM' timestamp='1310706728' post='1265376']
nVidia can guide all they want, it's still the responsibility of the producer of the game to make it work fine, not nVidia's

You see a promise here nVidia never gave and never will give. Because they can't. The just cannot take over the responsibility for something that they cannot control.
[/quote]

I understand what you're saying here, and while the developer is ultimately responsible for a game's 3D Vision support, this doesn't mean Nvidia is 100% not at fault for what happened here. It was their responsibility to review the game before allowing CD Projekt to advertise it as 3D Vision Ready at the point of sale. If Nvidia's policy actually lets publishers advertise 3D Vision as working correctly without Nvidia actually confirming that it works as advertised, then that's pretty bad policy on Nvidia's part.

The "designed for Windows" comparison is moot since anyone can claim something is designed for Windows and say that on the package - you don't need to contact Microsoft or follow their guidelines to make sure your for-sale product works just the right way with it. You can't just put a 3D Vision Ready label on your game without going through Nvidia's program and marketing with them (hence this sticky thread, made by Nvidia). If Nvidia goes through all this and [i]doesn't[/i] reserve the right to stop the developer from using the logo should their game not work correctly in 3D upon release, then there is something very wrong with that.
[quote name='Grestorn' date='15 July 2011 - 01:12 AM' timestamp='1310706728' post='1265376']

nVidia can guide all they want, it's still the responsibility of the producer of the game to make it work fine, not nVidia's



You see a promise here nVidia never gave and never will give. Because they can't. The just cannot take over the responsibility for something that they cannot control.





I understand what you're saying here, and while the developer is ultimately responsible for a game's 3D Vision support, this doesn't mean Nvidia is 100% not at fault for what happened here. It was their responsibility to review the game before allowing CD Projekt to advertise it as 3D Vision Ready at the point of sale. If Nvidia's policy actually lets publishers advertise 3D Vision as working correctly without Nvidia actually confirming that it works as advertised, then that's pretty bad policy on Nvidia's part.



The "designed for Windows" comparison is moot since anyone can claim something is designed for Windows and say that on the package - you don't need to contact Microsoft or follow their guidelines to make sure your for-sale product works just the right way with it. You can't just put a 3D Vision Ready label on your game without going through Nvidia's program and marketing with them (hence this sticky thread, made by Nvidia). If Nvidia goes through all this and doesn't reserve the right to stop the developer from using the logo should their game not work correctly in 3D upon release, then there is something very wrong with that.

Current parts:



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ASUS Sabertooth

i7 2600k

ASUS GTX 580

Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1866

W7

Posted 07/15/2011 07:34 AM   
Just adding my point of view in here for the 3D ready thing.

[quote]games that carry the badge ensure menus, heads-up-displays, scenery, and cut scenes are [b]rendered[/b] in flawless 3D.[/quote]

Note only the word rendered. All these items are rendered beautifully and perfectly in this game IMO. It doesn't say anything about how well it should run........
Just adding my point of view in here for the 3D ready thing.



games that carry the badge ensure menus, heads-up-displays, scenery, and cut scenes are rendered in flawless 3D.




Note only the word rendered. All these items are rendered beautifully and perfectly in this game IMO. It doesn't say anything about how well it should run........

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Posted 07/15/2011 09:47 AM   
[quote name='jarvo' date='15 July 2011 - 10:47 AM' timestamp='1310723271' post='1265490']
Just adding my point of view in here for the 3D ready thing.



Note only the word rendered. All these items are rendered beautifully and perfectly in this game IMO. It doesn't say anything about how well it should run........
[/quote]

I've come across puddles flaoting above the ground. Stop defending it, thy have even said there is a bug that dystroys both 3d and 2d performance if you have 3d vision drivers installed.
[quote name='jarvo' date='15 July 2011 - 10:47 AM' timestamp='1310723271' post='1265490']

Just adding my point of view in here for the 3D ready thing.







Note only the word rendered. All these items are rendered beautifully and perfectly in this game IMO. It doesn't say anything about how well it should run........





I've come across puddles flaoting above the ground. Stop defending it, thy have even said there is a bug that dystroys both 3d and 2d performance if you have 3d vision drivers installed.
Posted 07/15/2011 12:05 PM   
[quote name='magicandy' date='15 July 2011 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1310715257' post='1265418']
I understand what you're saying here, and while the developer is ultimately responsible for a game's 3D Vision support, this doesn't mean Nvidia is 100% not at fault for what happened here. It was their responsibility to review the game before allowing CD Projekt to advertise it as 3D Vision Ready at the point of sale. If Nvidia's policy actually lets publishers advertise 3D Vision as working correctly without Nvidia actually confirming that it works as advertised, then that's pretty bad policy on Nvidia's part.[/QUOTE]

Actually, this discussion is a bit mood. I feel like I'm pushed into a role of defending nV, which I really do have no reason to do. But I just can't stand it, if the people are blaming the wrong party, maybe I myself am often enough blamed for things I cannot even begin to control.

Still, regarding your post, they most likely make deal long before the game is released that nVidia gets their 3DVision logo on the package (which is a boon for nV) and in return CDPR gets some better support from nVidia. As I said before, I'm almost sure that doesn't mean that nVidia gets to see the final code or is in any way responsible for its quality. You don't get that kind of service with putting a logo on a package, that kind of responsibility had to be payed with a lot of more money.

My guess is that the 3DV rendering was working perfect at one point, and nVidia didn't have any reason to look into that later on, but someone thought to change something and that broke the code. That's pure speculation, sure, but it sounds the most likely to me. Noone will intentionally make a mistake like that, but people are bound to make mistakes.

[quote name='magicandy' date='15 July 2011 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1310715257' post='1265418']The "designed for Windows" comparison is moot since anyone can claim something is designed for Windows and say that on the package - you don't need to contact Microsoft or follow their guidelines to make sure your for-sale product works just the right way with it. You can't just put a 3D Vision Ready label on your game without going through Nvidia's program and marketing with them (hence this sticky thread, made by Nvidia). If Nvidia goes through all this and [i]doesn't[/i] reserve the right to stop the developer from using the logo should their game not work correctly in 3D upon release, then there is something very wrong with that.
[/quote]

There you're wrong. The "designed for Windows 7" logo for example is provided by MS and you have to get permission to be able to use it. And to get that, you have to make sure that your app is behaving well to a set of rules (e.g. not trying to write into the installation directory). MS will also make a check for that. But that doesn't mean in any way, that MS will be taking ANY responsibility, that the app is working properly. If it crashes and you lose some data, or even if you want to get back the money back you paid for it, MS won't be helping you in any way.
[quote name='magicandy' date='15 July 2011 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1310715257' post='1265418']

I understand what you're saying here, and while the developer is ultimately responsible for a game's 3D Vision support, this doesn't mean Nvidia is 100% not at fault for what happened here. It was their responsibility to review the game before allowing CD Projekt to advertise it as 3D Vision Ready at the point of sale. If Nvidia's policy actually lets publishers advertise 3D Vision as working correctly without Nvidia actually confirming that it works as advertised, then that's pretty bad policy on Nvidia's part.[/QUOTE]



Actually, this discussion is a bit mood. I feel like I'm pushed into a role of defending nV, which I really do have no reason to do. But I just can't stand it, if the people are blaming the wrong party, maybe I myself am often enough blamed for things I cannot even begin to control.



Still, regarding your post, they most likely make deal long before the game is released that nVidia gets their 3DVision logo on the package (which is a boon for nV) and in return CDPR gets some better support from nVidia. As I said before, I'm almost sure that doesn't mean that nVidia gets to see the final code or is in any way responsible for its quality. You don't get that kind of service with putting a logo on a package, that kind of responsibility had to be payed with a lot of more money.



My guess is that the 3DV rendering was working perfect at one point, and nVidia didn't have any reason to look into that later on, but someone thought to change something and that broke the code. That's pure speculation, sure, but it sounds the most likely to me. Noone will intentionally make a mistake like that, but people are bound to make mistakes.



[quote name='magicandy' date='15 July 2011 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1310715257' post='1265418']The "designed for Windows" comparison is moot since anyone can claim something is designed for Windows and say that on the package - you don't need to contact Microsoft or follow their guidelines to make sure your for-sale product works just the right way with it. You can't just put a 3D Vision Ready label on your game without going through Nvidia's program and marketing with them (hence this sticky thread, made by Nvidia). If Nvidia goes through all this and doesn't reserve the right to stop the developer from using the logo should their game not work correctly in 3D upon release, then there is something very wrong with that.





There you're wrong. The "designed for Windows 7" logo for example is provided by MS and you have to get permission to be able to use it. And to get that, you have to make sure that your app is behaving well to a set of rules (e.g. not trying to write into the installation directory). MS will also make a check for that. But that doesn't mean in any way, that MS will be taking ANY responsibility, that the app is working properly. If it crashes and you lose some data, or even if you want to get back the money back you paid for it, MS won't be helping you in any way.

Posted 07/15/2011 12:26 PM   
  53 / 82    
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