Tridef and convergence caps
Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence? Thanks.
Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence?

Thanks.

#1
Posted 12/25/2014 02:31 AM   
[quote="Cookybiscuit"]Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence? Thanks.[/quote] Only in Compatibility Mode for games that are supported. In regular automatic-mode, there is no convergence cap.
Cookybiscuit said:Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence?

Thanks.

Only in Compatibility Mode for games that are supported. In regular automatic-mode, there is no convergence cap.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#2
Posted 12/25/2014 02:49 AM   
[quote="bo3b"][quote="Cookybiscuit"]Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence? Thanks.[/quote] Only in Compatibility Mode for games that are supported. In regular automatic-mode, there is no convergence cap.[/quote] So is there a way to get around it in games that have it?
bo3b said:
Cookybiscuit said:Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence?

Thanks.

Only in Compatibility Mode for games that are supported. In regular automatic-mode, there is no convergence cap.

So is there a way to get around it in games that have it?

#3
Posted 12/25/2014 04:55 AM   
[quote="Cookybiscuit"][quote="bo3b"][quote="Cookybiscuit"]Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence? Thanks.[/quote] Only in Compatibility Mode for games that are supported. In regular automatic-mode, there is no convergence cap.[/quote] So is there a way to get around it in games that have it?[/quote] No, that's a fundamental aspect of CM, and why it's not a particularly great solution for 3D. It's very much like 2D to 3D conversion for movies. There just isn't any more data there, which leads to artifacts. I would only use CM if there were no other choice, it's weak sauce.
Cookybiscuit said:
bo3b said:
Cookybiscuit said:Is it just me or does 3D Vision now have a convergence limit you can't go over? Also does anyone know if you can get rid of the '100' limit in Tridef for the convergence?

Thanks.

Only in Compatibility Mode for games that are supported. In regular automatic-mode, there is no convergence cap.

So is there a way to get around it in games that have it?

No, that's a fundamental aspect of CM, and why it's not a particularly great solution for 3D. It's very much like 2D to 3D conversion for movies. There just isn't any more data there, which leads to artifacts.

I would only use CM if there were no other choice, it's weak sauce.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#4
Posted 12/25/2014 05:22 AM   
i always thought convergence was intentionally locked at around screen depth in CM. Im not entirely sure if SteveK mentiod something about that limit being intentional too, but in any case i think if its intentional its a mistake to limit it. I would take more artifacts and higher convergence for sure. The way i like playing in 3d is high convergence(=clear popout) and moderate depth which is not possible in CM. The depth is suprisingly good on a projector and sony hmd, around same level as true 3d, and i try to make the best out of it(high depth for my standard) but without convergence limit i would actually use a little lower depth setting and higher convergence value. I already think nvidia CM is ahead of tridefs but with tridef cm you can use much higher convergence values and close up objects do not become flat(IIRC). Thats why i always thought convergence was limited on purpose. But yeah, i dont know any better...
i always thought convergence was intentionally locked at around screen depth in CM. Im not entirely sure if SteveK mentiod something about that limit being intentional too, but in any case i think if its intentional its a mistake to limit it. I would take more artifacts and higher convergence for sure. The way i like playing in 3d is high convergence(=clear popout) and moderate depth which is not possible in CM. The depth is suprisingly good on a projector and sony hmd, around same level as true 3d, and i try to make the best out of it(high depth for my standard) but without convergence limit i would actually use a little lower depth setting and higher convergence value.

I already think nvidia CM is ahead of tridefs but with tridef cm you can use much higher convergence values and close up objects do not become flat(IIRC). Thats why i always thought convergence was limited on purpose. But yeah, i dont know any better...

#5
Posted 12/25/2014 06:16 AM   
Not sure what CM is, lol... Anyway I always thought Tridef was a proper implementation of 3D, other than their Power3D which is that shit like Crysis 2 and 3 uses?
Not sure what CM is, lol...

Anyway I always thought Tridef was a proper implementation of 3D, other than their Power3D which is that shit like Crysis 2 and 3 uses?

#6
Posted 12/25/2014 06:05 PM   
CM = Compatibility Mode. NVidia's version of Crysis 2/3 and Tridef Power3D. On by default for games that have profiles. ctrl-alt-f11 to disable it and get automatic mode back.
CM = Compatibility Mode. NVidia's version of Crysis 2/3 and Tridef Power3D. On by default for games that have profiles. ctrl-alt-f11 to disable it and get automatic mode back.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#7
Posted 12/26/2014 02:11 PM   
Is anything supposed to pop up to tell you its changed, because I can't seem to get it to work. In games that I have the convergence capped the hotkey doesn't seem to do anything, who knows. So theres no way to get around the convergence limit in Tridef non-power 3D? If so that seems kind of stupid as theres no reason to limit it. I was under the impression 3D Vision and Tridef used the same proper 3D and so would work.
Is anything supposed to pop up to tell you its changed, because I can't seem to get it to work. In games that I have the convergence capped the hotkey doesn't seem to do anything, who knows.

So theres no way to get around the convergence limit in Tridef non-power 3D? If so that seems kind of stupid as theres no reason to limit it. I was under the impression 3D Vision and Tridef used the same proper 3D and so would work.

#8
Posted 12/26/2014 09:33 PM   
Just curious, what games are exhibiting the issue for you?
Just curious, what games are exhibiting the issue for you?
#9
Posted 12/26/2014 10:55 PM   
CSGO, a few of the older CoD games and some indie stuff.
CSGO, a few of the older CoD games and some indie stuff.

#10
Posted 12/27/2014 12:46 AM   
I was going to try'n test it out for you if I had any of them but then I realized I think you meant TriDef has the convergence cap and not 3D Vision and I don't have TriDef.
I was going to try'n test it out for you if I had any of them but then I realized I think you meant TriDef has the convergence cap and not 3D Vision and I don't have TriDef.
#11
Posted 12/27/2014 12:54 AM   
[quote="TsaebehT"]I was going to try'n test it out for you if I had any of them but then I realized I think you meant TriDef has the convergence cap and not 3D Vision and I don't have TriDef.[/quote] No yeah 3D Vision has it too. Maybe its just because I'm screwing about with anaglyph mode (testing somethingo out), but I'd have thought it would work the same way.
TsaebehT said:I was going to try'n test it out for you if I had any of them but then I realized I think you meant TriDef has the convergence cap and not 3D Vision and I don't have TriDef.

No yeah 3D Vision has it too. Maybe its just because I'm screwing about with anaglyph mode (testing somethingo out), but I'd have thought it would work the same way.

#12
Posted 12/27/2014 03:26 AM   
Yes, don't know about Tridef cap, best to ask on their forums. For 3D Vision, you don't get any sign of convergence changing. You hold the ctrl-f6 down for a long time, like 45 seconds sometimes to get it to move. You need to have checked the 'advanced settings' check box in the stereoscopic control panel to enable it. For CM on/off, you can see it now with the green game hint text up. ctrl-alt-Ins brings up or removes that text. When it's up and you hit ctrl-alt-f11, you can see it switch. So you can be sure you are in the right mode. For true-3D, there is no reason to have a convergence lock, but some games lock it on purpose.
Yes, don't know about Tridef cap, best to ask on their forums.

For 3D Vision, you don't get any sign of convergence changing. You hold the ctrl-f6 down for a long time, like 45 seconds sometimes to get it to move. You need to have checked the 'advanced settings' check box in the stereoscopic control panel to enable it.

For CM on/off, you can see it now with the green game hint text up. ctrl-alt-Ins brings up or removes that text. When it's up and you hit ctrl-alt-f11, you can see it switch. So you can be sure you are in the right mode.

For true-3D, there is no reason to have a convergence lock, but some games lock it on purpose.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#13
Posted 12/27/2014 03:27 AM   
For Tridef, if you decrease the far plane away from 100 to 97, that will increase your convergence limit beyond the regular values. This will mean things that popout will pop out with less limitations from the boundary of 100 so you can get those extreme popout effects just as you can with 3d Vision. This will require you to use a custom focus instead of the regular autofocus that Tridef uses. Remember that increasing the front percentage in front will be the main way to expand the popout after slightly decreasing the far plane.
For Tridef, if you decrease the far plane away from 100 to 97, that will increase your convergence limit beyond the regular values. This will mean things that popout will pop out with less limitations from the boundary of 100 so you can get those extreme popout effects just as you can with 3d Vision. This will require you to use a custom focus instead of the regular autofocus that Tridef uses.

Remember that increasing the front percentage in front will be the main way to expand the popout after slightly decreasing the far plane.

3D Vision/TRIDEF User
SHIELD portable/tablet/tv

#14
Posted 12/28/2014 04:59 AM   
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