GTX580 shameful performance in 3D Vision Solutions?
1 / 2
Hi,
Well, finally I got my Asus GTX580 CU II, a very nice card, instead of my 2 GTX285. I installed it yesterday and did a quick first test with CODWAW, just at the beginning of the game, at the very first time in the game when you are able to shoot a gun.
I can't say how deeply disappointed and angry I feel.
Although the card performs slighty better than 2 GTX285 for [b]NOT 3D Vision[/b] gaming (about 52 fps), and that is fine, when [b]3D is activated [/b]it drops to 19 fps!! which is just what a single GTX285 in 3D Vision did (18 fps)! Tested with last drivers 275.27 and 1680x1050.
On the other hand, the 2 GTX285 with SLIPatch (I have a maximus 2 formula mobo) and old 257.21 drivers (which are the only ones that works with SLIPatch and 3D Vision), gave me 41 fps in the very same place of the game and 3D Vision!
So I don't see the point to spend almost 500€ for a last-gen card that is not able to do what 2 old GTX285 did.
So, what can I do? I have a feeling that there is not any problem, I mean I feel I could not do anything to solve it, although I still wish I could find something wrong with my system, config, installation, etc to fix it... I am sure this is a problem that could be solved with good drivers, because there is no way a card like the gtx580 could not do what 2 GTX285 can. But I am 100% sure Nvidia will not work on that: it is an "old" game, for them there is no point to put work on that.
Please, don't say it is because is not a 3D vision Ready game, most of games out there are supported by nvidia and they are not, moreover, in SLI+3D it scales perfectly even not being a 3D ready title... so there is no reason the gtx580 do not.
Frankly, I am so disappointed and tired... If someone has some suggestion please don't hesitate. Thanks
Well, finally I got my Asus GTX580 CU II, a very nice card, instead of my 2 GTX285. I installed it yesterday and did a quick first test with CODWAW, just at the beginning of the game, at the very first time in the game when you are able to shoot a gun.
I can't say how deeply disappointed and angry I feel.
Although the card performs slighty better than 2 GTX285 for NOT 3D Vision gaming (about 52 fps), and that is fine, when 3D is activated it drops to 19 fps!! which is just what a single GTX285 in 3D Vision did (18 fps)! Tested with last drivers 275.27 and 1680x1050.
On the other hand, the 2 GTX285 with SLIPatch (I have a maximus 2 formula mobo) and old 257.21 drivers (which are the only ones that works with SLIPatch and 3D Vision), gave me 41 fps in the very same place of the game and 3D Vision!
So I don't see the point to spend almost 500€ for a last-gen card that is not able to do what 2 old GTX285 did.
So, what can I do? I have a feeling that there is not any problem, I mean I feel I could not do anything to solve it, although I still wish I could find something wrong with my system, config, installation, etc to fix it... I am sure this is a problem that could be solved with good drivers, because there is no way a card like the gtx580 could not do what 2 GTX285 can. But I am 100% sure Nvidia will not work on that: it is an "old" game, for them there is no point to put work on that.
Please, don't say it is because is not a 3D vision Ready game, most of games out there are supported by nvidia and they are not, moreover, in SLI+3D it scales perfectly even not being a 3D ready title... so there is no reason the gtx580 do not.
Frankly, I am so disappointed and tired... If someone has some suggestion please don't hesitate. Thanks
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Is it only the one game? or all games? I know for a fact that COD BO plays great in 3D on a single GTX580. I don't have WAW but i assume it is similar.
More than likely theres a setting you have wrong somewhere...
Is it only the one game? or all games? I know for a fact that COD BO plays great in 3D on a single GTX580. I don't have WAW but i assume it is similar.
More than likely theres a setting you have wrong somewhere...
Let me keep this short ,because my native is not Englisch...
A 285 is a very fast card ...,almost as good as a 480=580...
The 285 had very high clock speeds,..if my memory is good,it had faster clock speeds then a 480 or 580...
The new cards(480>) have more Processors and are designed for new games that use the card in a different way then the older games,so even better drivers can't always help you with better fps...
I bet..Metro2033 and Battlefield or JustCause (newer dx11) games will probably run much faster then your old 285...
I know because my previous card was 280 and my 480 was only a couple of fps faster way back when I bought it...
But with dx11 games the 480 was much faster like 15 fps even with the extra options turned on like tesselation...
And 15fps is a big improvement if you go from 20 to 35.
Do a little reading/googling and you see what I'm talking about..
So if I'm correct this GTX580 CUII is only one 580 then it will not be faster the your old 285 in sli.
Maybe only in new games with dx11 and the you will only get a couple of fps more...
You need to get a second gtx580 for big improvement in fps with sdvision...
That's why you see alot of people here on the 3dvision forum with a 480 or a 580 in SLI...
Let me keep this short ,because my native is not Englisch...
A 285 is a very fast card ...,almost as good as a 480=580...
The 285 had very high clock speeds,..if my memory is good,it had faster clock speeds then a 480 or 580...
The new cards(480>) have more Processors and are designed for new games that use the card in a different way then the older games,so even better drivers can't always help you with better fps...
I bet..Metro2033 and Battlefield or JustCause (newer dx11) games will probably run much faster then your old 285...
I know because my previous card was 280 and my 480 was only a couple of fps faster way back when I bought it...
But with dx11 games the 480 was much faster like 15 fps even with the extra options turned on like tesselation...
And 15fps is a big improvement if you go from 20 to 35.
Do a little reading/googling and you see what I'm talking about..
So if I'm correct this GTX580 CUII is only one 580 then it will not be faster the your old 285 in sli.
Maybe only in new games with dx11 and the you will only get a couple of fps more...
You need to get a second gtx580 for big improvement in fps with sdvision...
That's why you see alot of people here on the 3dvision forum with a 480 or a 580 in SLI...
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
Ferry, I understand what you tell me. In fact, my Q6600 is at 3.75 Ghz and RAM at 1106 Mhz (not too big difference, I know) and I have a Q9650 coming which I plan to put at least up to 4.2 GHz, still it is not an i7, I know, but I didn't want to upgrade the mobo+ram+CPU yet (and after all, with that CPU I went to 41fps when sli gtx285+3d vision, so I guess the Q6600 is not bottlenecking the gpu, at least not enough as to explain the 19fps of the gtx580).
On the other hand I agree with what you says, and in fact I didn't expected that the single GTX580 was better than my SLI GTX285, I was aware of that, I only wanted the the GTX580 was approx. equivalent to the SLI GTX285, that's all. So, afaik, this expectation is not in contradiction with what you explain. But still, not only the GTX580 is not more or less equivalent to the sli gtx285, it is much slower than the sli gtx 285, with 3d vision...
I could OC the shaders of the GTX580 but I doubt it go from 19fps up to 41...
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
Ferry, I understand what you tell me. In fact, my Q6600 is at 3.75 Ghz and RAM at 1106 Mhz (not too big difference, I know) and I have a Q9650 coming which I plan to put at least up to 4.2 GHz, still it is not an i7, I know, but I didn't want to upgrade the mobo+ram+CPU yet (and after all, with that CPU I went to 41fps when sli gtx285+3d vision, so I guess the Q6600 is not bottlenecking the gpu, at least not enough as to explain the 19fps of the gtx580).
On the other hand I agree with what you says, and in fact I didn't expected that the single GTX580 was better than my SLI GTX285, I was aware of that, I only wanted the the GTX580 was approx. equivalent to the SLI GTX285, that's all. So, afaik, this expectation is not in contradiction with what you explain. But still, not only the GTX580 is not more or less equivalent to the sli gtx285, it is much slower than the sli gtx 285, with 3d vision...
BTW,
-------------------Core----Mem----Shaders
GTX285 FTW 720 1390 1620
GTX580 CUII 782 2004 1564
I could OC the shaders of the GTX580 but I doubt it go from 19fps up to 41...
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Try pressing "Control + F12" to disable the Nvidia laser-sight. It can kill performance on some games. If that doesn't work, you can try lowering some of the settings in the games. 3D take a huge hit, sometimes as much as 50%. So you can't really max the graphics out unless you have some crazy SLI rig.
Try pressing "Control + F12" to disable the Nvidia laser-sight. It can kill performance on some games. If that doesn't work, you can try lowering some of the settings in the games. 3D take a huge hit, sometimes as much as 50%. So you can't really max the graphics out unless you have some crazy SLI rig.
If the games you are playing are Directx 9 the 500 series performance isnt that great for the mo. Over in the widescreen forums we were told that there will be an update on the 275.xx release of drivers, the ones out now do improve performance a bit but these are beta. The offical release should be alot better.
Well thats what I am hoping for
If the games you are playing are Directx 9 the 500 series performance isnt that great for the mo. Over in the widescreen forums we were told that there will be an update on the 275.xx release of drivers, the ones out now do improve performance a bit but these are beta. The offical release should be alot better.
I tried to disable nvidia crosshair, both in game (Ctrl F12) and also in nvidia control panel, neither hepled. About the 275.xx drivers, it would be nice but...
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
I tried to disable nvidia crosshair, both in game (Ctrl F12) and also in nvidia control panel, neither hepled. About the 275.xx drivers, it would be nice but...
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
[quote name='Darkbluesky' date='23 May 2011 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1306136439' post='1241169']
I tried to disable nvidia crosshair, both in game (Ctrl F12) and also in nvidia control panel, neither hepled. About the 275.xx drivers, it would be nice but...
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
[/quote]
I would return GTX580, sell both GTX285 and get two GTX570 for SLI ((if you overclock it, it can catch up to GTX580 (stock clocks) easily)), single card is not enough for 3D Vision games that were released in these times, its just not enough.
[quote name='Darkbluesky' date='23 May 2011 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1306136439' post='1241169']
I tried to disable nvidia crosshair, both in game (Ctrl F12) and also in nvidia control panel, neither hepled. About the 275.xx drivers, it would be nice but...
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
I would return GTX580, sell both GTX285 and get two GTX570 for SLI ((if you overclock it, it can catch up to GTX580 (stock clocks) easily)), single card is not enough for 3D Vision games that were released in these times, its just not enough.
Thanks for the answer, but as I said in the first post I don't have a SLI compatible mobo, and already tried the SLIPatch solution: unhappily 3D vision mode and SLIPatch interferes somehow with some drivers revisions (and moreover nvidia tries to block the use of SLIPatch), so globally it is a driver/settings nightmare.
So, in order your solution works that would mean sell everything except case/HDD/PSU and build a new computer, which I did not want to do now (although obviously, it would be the best solution).
BTW, the shop does not allow me to return articles, even if it is 2 minutes from the purchase /blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
EDIT: When I said gtx595 was 100€, I meant if it was 100€ MORE than the GTX580, of course /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />
Thanks for the answer, but as I said in the first post I don't have a SLI compatible mobo, and already tried the SLIPatch solution: unhappily 3D vision mode and SLIPatch interferes somehow with some drivers revisions (and moreover nvidia tries to block the use of SLIPatch), so globally it is a driver/settings nightmare.
So, in order your solution works that would mean sell everything except case/HDD/PSU and build a new computer, which I did not want to do now (although obviously, it would be the best solution).
BTW, the shop does not allow me to return articles, even if it is 2 minutes from the purchase /blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
EDIT: When I said gtx595 was 100€, I meant if it was 100€ MORE than the GTX580, of course /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
[quote name='Darkbluesky' date='22 May 2011 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1306059881' post='1240800']
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
[/quote]
Those framerates are not so bad...
Why not keep the 580 ,it's not that bad...
Could always buy a SLI mobo and another 580 in the near fuure when you see a good prize...
[quote name='Darkbluesky' date='22 May 2011 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1306059881' post='1240800']
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
Those framerates are not so bad...
Why not keep the 580 ,it's not that bad...
Could always buy a SLI mobo and another 580 in the near fuure when you see a good prize...
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
Yes in fact I like the card, I should then forget playing some games until I have another GTX580 I guess, after all, I don't mind playing "old" games. But wait, look at what I have just found:
In CODWaW, always with the GTX580 stock speeds, and the Q6600 at 3.6 GHz, DDR2 at 1066, and always AA Off:
1680x1050 [b]3D OFF [/b]49/51 fps
1680x1050 [b]3D ON [/b]19 fps
640x480 [b]3D OFF [/b]49/51 fps
640x480 [b]3D ON [/b]19 fps
Practically exactly fps. How is that possible?
A. Driver problem
B. Q6600 is bottlenecking the card,
C. Memory bottlenecking?
If B, then how is it possible that the same CPU at the same speed could achieve 41 fps 3D On with sli gtx285?
If still the Q6600 is the cause, that would mean that in order to render in 3D Vision in a [b]single GPU[/b] it uses [b]a lot [/b]the CPU, meanwhile in SLI it does not use it at all for 3D... (unbeliable?)
-------------------------
EDIT:
...and why BFBC2 has so high fps and scales so well? maybe it uses very few the CPU?, and maybe COD engine don't use physx at all, so it uses a lot the cpu to calculate that? (so it doesn't leave too much power for 3D vision processing?) Who knows...(?)
BFBC2 DX10 3D OFF: 110 fps 3D ON: 60 fps (Vsync limited)
BFBC2 DX9 3D OFF: 79 fps 3D ON: 49/50 fps
Although in DX9 it is slower it scales very well imo
-------------------------
Yes in fact I like the card, I should then forget playing some games until I have another GTX580 I guess, after all, I don't mind playing "old" games. But wait, look at what I have just found:
In CODWaW, always with the GTX580 stock speeds, and the Q6600 at 3.6 GHz, DDR2 at 1066, and always AA Off:
1680x1050 3D OFF 49/51 fps
1680x1050 3D ON 19 fps
640x480 3D OFF 49/51 fps
640x480 3D ON 19 fps
Practically exactly fps. How is that possible?
A. Driver problem
B. Q6600 is bottlenecking the card,
C. Memory bottlenecking?
If B, then how is it possible that the same CPU at the same speed could achieve 41 fps 3D On with sli gtx285?
If still the Q6600 is the cause, that would mean that in order to render in 3D Vision in a single GPU it uses a lot the CPU, meanwhile in SLI it does not use it at all for 3D... (unbeliable?)
-------------------------
EDIT:
...and why BFBC2 has so high fps and scales so well? maybe it uses very few the CPU?, and maybe COD engine don't use physx at all, so it uses a lot the cpu to calculate that? (so it doesn't leave too much power for 3D vision processing?) Who knows...(?)
BFBC2 DX10 3D OFF: 110 fps 3D ON: 60 fps (Vsync limited)
BFBC2 DX9 3D OFF: 79 fps 3D ON: 49/50 fps
Although in DX9 it is slower it scales very well imo
-------------------------
Has someone a clue? What is your opinion?
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
I wanted to test the 185.85 drivers (3D Vision CD 1.10) but any driver earlier thatn the 263.xx refuses to install as it does not recognise the gtx580. So I tested with 263.09 (3D Vision 1.41 drivers). It is the same for CODWaW, maybe 1 fps more and feels slightly smoother, but in practice, the same.
On the other hand, BFBC2, for example does not work at all in 3D. Anyway, I can't test the old drivers options, so I'll try to tweak nvidia settings...
I wanted to test the 185.85 drivers (3D Vision CD 1.10) but any driver earlier thatn the 263.xx refuses to install as it does not recognise the gtx580. So I tested with 263.09 (3D Vision 1.41 drivers). It is the same for CODWaW, maybe 1 fps more and feels slightly smoother, but in practice, the same.
On the other hand, BFBC2, for example does not work at all in 3D. Anyway, I can't test the old drivers options, so I'll try to tweak nvidia settings...
EDIT: syntax fixes
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Well, finally I got my Asus GTX580 CU II, a very nice card, instead of my 2 GTX285. I installed it yesterday and did a quick first test with CODWAW, just at the beginning of the game, at the very first time in the game when you are able to shoot a gun.
I can't say how deeply disappointed and angry I feel.
Although the card performs slighty better than 2 GTX285 for [b]NOT 3D Vision[/b] gaming (about 52 fps), and that is fine, when [b]3D is activated [/b]it drops to 19 fps!! which is just what a single GTX285 in 3D Vision did (18 fps)! Tested with last drivers 275.27 and 1680x1050.
On the other hand, the 2 GTX285 with SLIPatch (I have a maximus 2 formula mobo) and old 257.21 drivers (which are the only ones that works with SLIPatch and 3D Vision), gave me 41 fps in the very same place of the game and 3D Vision!
So I don't see the point to spend almost 500€ for a last-gen card that is not able to do what 2 old GTX285 did.
So, what can I do? I have a feeling that there is not any problem, I mean I feel I could not do anything to solve it, although I still wish I could find something wrong with my system, config, installation, etc to fix it... I am sure this is a problem that could be solved with good drivers, because there is no way a card like the gtx580 could not do what 2 GTX285 can. But I am 100% sure Nvidia will not work on that: it is an "old" game, for them there is no point to put work on that.
Please, don't say it is because is not a 3D vision Ready game, most of games out there are supported by nvidia and they are not, moreover, in SLI+3D it scales perfectly even not being a 3D ready title... so there is no reason the gtx580 do not.
Frankly, I am so disappointed and tired... If someone has some suggestion please don't hesitate. Thanks
Well, finally I got my Asus GTX580 CU II, a very nice card, instead of my 2 GTX285. I installed it yesterday and did a quick first test with CODWAW, just at the beginning of the game, at the very first time in the game when you are able to shoot a gun.
I can't say how deeply disappointed and angry I feel.
Although the card performs slighty better than 2 GTX285 for NOT 3D Vision gaming (about 52 fps), and that is fine, when 3D is activated it drops to 19 fps!! which is just what a single GTX285 in 3D Vision did (18 fps)! Tested with last drivers 275.27 and 1680x1050.
On the other hand, the 2 GTX285 with SLIPatch (I have a maximus 2 formula mobo) and old 257.21 drivers (which are the only ones that works with SLIPatch and 3D Vision), gave me 41 fps in the very same place of the game and 3D Vision!
So I don't see the point to spend almost 500€ for a last-gen card that is not able to do what 2 old GTX285 did.
So, what can I do? I have a feeling that there is not any problem, I mean I feel I could not do anything to solve it, although I still wish I could find something wrong with my system, config, installation, etc to fix it... I am sure this is a problem that could be solved with good drivers, because there is no way a card like the gtx580 could not do what 2 GTX285 can. But I am 100% sure Nvidia will not work on that: it is an "old" game, for them there is no point to put work on that.
Please, don't say it is because is not a 3D vision Ready game, most of games out there are supported by nvidia and they are not, moreover, in SLI+3D it scales perfectly even not being a 3D ready title... so there is no reason the gtx580 do not.
Frankly, I am so disappointed and tired... If someone has some suggestion please don't hesitate. Thanks
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More than likely theres a setting you have wrong somewhere...
That Q6600 probably isn't helping btw...
More than likely theres a setting you have wrong somewhere...
That Q6600 probably isn't helping btw...
// Owned: MX420 // MX440 // FX5200 Ultra // 7600GT // 8800GTS 320MB // 9800GX2 // GTX275 // SLI GTX580s // SLI GTX780Tis //
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Otherwise, 2 gtx 285's in sli are sometimes faster than a 580. Overclock your card as much as you can.
Otherwise, 2 gtx 285's in sli are sometimes faster than a 580. Overclock your card as much as you can.
Let me keep this short ,because my native is not Englisch...
A 285 is a very fast card ...,almost as good as a 480=580...
The 285 had very high clock speeds,..if my memory is good,it had faster clock speeds then a 480 or 580...
The new cards(480>) have more Processors and are designed for new games that use the card in a different way then the older games,so even better drivers can't always help you with better fps...
I bet..Metro2033 and Battlefield or JustCause (newer dx11) games will probably run much faster then your old 285...
I know because my previous card was 280 and my 480 was only a couple of fps faster way back when I bought it...
But with dx11 games the 480 was much faster like 15 fps even with the extra options turned on like tesselation...
And 15fps is a big improvement if you go from 20 to 35.
Do a little reading/googling and you see what I'm talking about..
So if I'm correct this GTX580 CUII is only one 580 then it will not be faster the your old 285 in sli.
Maybe only in new games with dx11 and the you will only get a couple of fps more...
You need to get a second gtx580 for big improvement in fps with sdvision...
That's why you see alot of people here on the 3dvision forum with a 480 or a 580 in SLI...
Let me keep this short ,because my native is not Englisch...
A 285 is a very fast card ...,almost as good as a 480=580...
The 285 had very high clock speeds,..if my memory is good,it had faster clock speeds then a 480 or 580...
The new cards(480>) have more Processors and are designed for new games that use the card in a different way then the older games,so even better drivers can't always help you with better fps...
I bet..Metro2033 and Battlefield or JustCause (newer dx11) games will probably run much faster then your old 285...
I know because my previous card was 280 and my 480 was only a couple of fps faster way back when I bought it...
But with dx11 games the 480 was much faster like 15 fps even with the extra options turned on like tesselation...
And 15fps is a big improvement if you go from 20 to 35.
Do a little reading/googling and you see what I'm talking about..
So if I'm correct this GTX580 CUII is only one 580 then it will not be faster the your old 285 in sli.
Maybe only in new games with dx11 and the you will only get a couple of fps more...
You need to get a second gtx580 for big improvement in fps with sdvision...
That's why you see alot of people here on the 3dvision forum with a 480 or a 580 in SLI...
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try to get 4 ghz out of the 6600?
Otherwise, 2 gtx 285's in sli are sometimes faster than a 580. Overclock your card as much as you can.
[/quote]
Yes,that's also not really the fasted processor around...
try to get 4 ghz out of the 6600?
Otherwise, 2 gtx 285's in sli are sometimes faster than a 580. Overclock your card as much as you can.
Yes,that's also not really the fasted processor around...
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
Ferry, I understand what you tell me. In fact, my Q6600 is at 3.75 Ghz and RAM at 1106 Mhz (not too big difference, I know) and I have a Q9650 coming which I plan to put at least up to 4.2 GHz, still it is not an i7, I know, but I didn't want to upgrade the mobo+ram+CPU yet (and after all, with that CPU I went to 41fps when sli gtx285+3d vision, so I guess the Q6600 is not bottlenecking the gpu, at least not enough as to explain the 19fps of the gtx580).
On the other hand I agree with what you says, and in fact I didn't expected that the single GTX580 was better than my SLI GTX285, I was aware of that, I only wanted the the GTX580 was approx. equivalent to the SLI GTX285, that's all. So, afaik, this expectation is not in contradiction with what you explain. But still, not only the GTX580 is not more or less equivalent to the sli gtx285, it is much slower than the sli gtx 285, with 3d vision...
BTW,
-------------------Core----Mem----Shaders
GTX285 FTW 720 1390 1620
GTX580 CUII 782 2004 1564
I could OC the shaders of the GTX580 but I doubt it go from 19fps up to 41...
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
Ferry, I understand what you tell me. In fact, my Q6600 is at 3.75 Ghz and RAM at 1106 Mhz (not too big difference, I know) and I have a Q9650 coming which I plan to put at least up to 4.2 GHz, still it is not an i7, I know, but I didn't want to upgrade the mobo+ram+CPU yet (and after all, with that CPU I went to 41fps when sli gtx285+3d vision, so I guess the Q6600 is not bottlenecking the gpu, at least not enough as to explain the 19fps of the gtx580).
On the other hand I agree with what you says, and in fact I didn't expected that the single GTX580 was better than my SLI GTX285, I was aware of that, I only wanted the the GTX580 was approx. equivalent to the SLI GTX285, that's all. So, afaik, this expectation is not in contradiction with what you explain. But still, not only the GTX580 is not more or less equivalent to the sli gtx285, it is much slower than the sli gtx 285, with 3d vision...
BTW,
-------------------Core----Mem----Shaders
GTX285 FTW 720 1390 1620
GTX580 CUII 782 2004 1564
I could OC the shaders of the GTX580 but I doubt it go from 19fps up to 41...
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
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Well thats what I am hoping for
Well thats what I am hoping for
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
I tried to disable nvidia crosshair, both in game (Ctrl F12) and also in nvidia control panel, neither hepled. About the 275.xx drivers, it would be nice but...
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
[/quote]
I would return GTX580, sell both GTX285 and get two GTX570 for SLI ((if you overclock it, it can catch up to GTX580 (stock clocks) easily)), single card is not enough for 3D Vision games that were released in these times, its just not enough.
I tried to disable nvidia crosshair, both in game (Ctrl F12) and also in nvidia control panel, neither hepled. About the 275.xx drivers, it would be nice but...
If the GTX595 was only 100 € I could consider selling the GTX580 and go for one of these, but most likely it will be something around 700-800 € which is just crazy for me.
I like the GTX580, nice and good for not 3D Vision or some games in 3D, but I still miss the smooooth gaming in 3D with some games, specially COD ones... I still have the 2 GTX285 (I have not sold them yet), so now I don't know what to do (?)
I would return GTX580, sell both GTX285 and get two GTX570 for SLI ((if you overclock it, it can catch up to GTX580 (stock clocks) easily)), single card is not enough for 3D Vision games that were released in these times, its just not enough.
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So, in order your solution works that would mean sell everything except case/HDD/PSU and build a new computer, which I did not want to do now (although obviously, it would be the best solution).
BTW, the shop does not allow me to return articles, even if it is 2 minutes from the purchase
EDIT: When I said gtx595 was 100€, I meant if it was 100€ MORE than the GTX580, of course
So, in order your solution works that would mean sell everything except case/HDD/PSU and build a new computer, which I did not want to do now (although obviously, it would be the best solution).
BTW, the shop does not allow me to return articles, even if it is 2 minutes from the purchase
EDIT: When I said gtx595 was 100€, I meant if it was 100€ MORE than the GTX580, of course
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
[/quote]
Those framerates are not so bad...
Why not keep the 580 ,it's not that bad...
Could always buy a SLI mobo and another 580 in the near fuure when you see a good prize...
Note: I tested Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the gtx580, at some mission (no benchmarking, only comparing at some point -not looking at sky, or close wall, of course-):
3D Vision OFF 118fps
3D Vision ON 60 fps (Vsync limited, I guess)
I'll test CODMW, and report.
EDIT:
CODMW is normally 120fps 3D Off and 60 fps 3D ON, except in open/landscape places which is 118-120 fps 3D Off and 39 fps 3D ON, so I start to suspect that COD engine is not the best for 3D vision (not really optimized for it). Will check more games
Those framerates are not so bad...
Why not keep the 580 ,it's not that bad...
Could always buy a SLI mobo and another 580 in the near fuure when you see a good prize...
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
Yes in fact I like the card, I should then forget playing some games until I have another GTX580 I guess, after all, I don't mind playing "old" games. But wait, look at what I have just found:
In CODWaW, always with the GTX580 stock speeds, and the Q6600 at 3.6 GHz, DDR2 at 1066, and always AA Off:
1680x1050 [b]3D OFF [/b]49/51 fps
1680x1050 [b]3D ON [/b]19 fps
640x480 [b]3D OFF [/b]49/51 fps
640x480 [b]3D ON [/b]19 fps
Practically exactly fps. How is that possible?
A. Driver problem
B. Q6600 is bottlenecking the card,
C. Memory bottlenecking?
If B, then how is it possible that the same CPU at the same speed could achieve 41 fps 3D On with sli gtx285?
If still the Q6600 is the cause, that would mean that in order to render in 3D Vision in a [b]single GPU[/b] it uses [b]a lot [/b]the CPU, meanwhile in SLI it does not use it at all for 3D... (unbeliable?)
-------------------------
EDIT:
...and why BFBC2 has so high fps and scales so well? maybe it uses very few the CPU?, and maybe COD engine don't use physx at all, so it uses a lot the cpu to calculate that? (so it doesn't leave too much power for 3D vision processing?) Who knows...(?)
BFBC2 DX10 3D OFF: 110 fps 3D ON: 60 fps (Vsync limited)
BFBC2 DX9 3D OFF: 79 fps 3D ON: 49/50 fps
Although in DX9 it is slower it scales very well imo
-------------------------
Has someone a clue? What is your opinion?
Yes in fact I like the card, I should then forget playing some games until I have another GTX580 I guess, after all, I don't mind playing "old" games. But wait, look at what I have just found:
In CODWaW, always with the GTX580 stock speeds, and the Q6600 at 3.6 GHz, DDR2 at 1066, and always AA Off:
1680x1050 3D OFF 49/51 fps
1680x1050 3D ON 19 fps
640x480 3D OFF 49/51 fps
640x480 3D ON 19 fps
Practically exactly fps. How is that possible?
A. Driver problem
B. Q6600 is bottlenecking the card,
C. Memory bottlenecking?
If B, then how is it possible that the same CPU at the same speed could achieve 41 fps 3D On with sli gtx285?
If still the Q6600 is the cause, that would mean that in order to render in 3D Vision in a single GPU it uses a lot the CPU, meanwhile in SLI it does not use it at all for 3D... (unbeliable?)
-------------------------
EDIT:
...and why BFBC2 has so high fps and scales so well? maybe it uses very few the CPU?, and maybe COD engine don't use physx at all, so it uses a lot the cpu to calculate that? (so it doesn't leave too much power for 3D vision processing?) Who knows...(?)
BFBC2 DX10 3D OFF: 110 fps 3D ON: 60 fps (Vsync limited)
BFBC2 DX9 3D OFF: 79 fps 3D ON: 49/50 fps
Although in DX9 it is slower it scales very well imo
-------------------------
Has someone a clue? What is your opinion?
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You can experiment some..by trying out old drivers with your 580...
Who knows,maybe you will find some that works with COD...\
Or maybe you can dissable some options in the Nvidia control panel (manage 3dsetting for a game)...
See if that get's you anywhere..
Lot's of stuff you can try...
You can experiment some..by trying out old drivers with your 580...
Who knows,maybe you will find some that works with COD...\
Or maybe you can dissable some options in the Nvidia control panel (manage 3dsetting for a game)...
See if that get's you anywhere..
Lot's of stuff you can try...
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
On the other hand, BFBC2, for example does not work at all in 3D. Anyway, I can't test the old drivers options, so I'll try to tweak nvidia settings...
EDIT: syntax fixes
On the other hand, BFBC2, for example does not work at all in 3D. Anyway, I can't test the old drivers options, so I'll try to tweak nvidia settings...
EDIT: syntax fixes
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64