Grainy Texture (Horizontal Lines) When In 3D Mode Samsung 2233RZ 22-inch Bundle
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[quote name='PressPal' post='575961' date='Aug 8 2009, 06:56 PM']First of all i want to Thank Metyx for his unbelieveble effort and endurance to find a solution for the customers. There should be more users which care and try to move people like him. And of course Darkbluesky for his professional pictureproof with his nice Camera ;-)
I wanted to ask if these Scanlines also occur on Systems with two graphiccards. So do someone with a SLI-System encountered as well.
Excuse me for my bad english and i thank in advance for the answers.
Edit: I forgot to mention the graphiccards with two Chips on one board like the gx2 or 295 are also important to know.[/quote]
I'm using a GTX 295, so yes, in my case it is happening on an SLI setup.
[quote name='PressPal' post='575961' date='Aug 8 2009, 06:56 PM']First of all i want to Thank Metyx for his unbelieveble effort and endurance to find a solution for the customers. There should be more users which care and try to move people like him. And of course Darkbluesky for his professional pictureproof with his nice Camera ;-)
I wanted to ask if these Scanlines also occur on Systems with two graphiccards. So do someone with a SLI-System encountered as well.
Excuse me for my bad english and i thank in advance for the answers.
Edit: I forgot to mention the graphiccards with two Chips on one board like the gx2 or 295 are also important to know.
I'm using a GTX 295, so yes, in my case it is happening on an SLI setup.
[quote name='liquor beard' post='572860' date='Aug 1 2009, 06:12 PM']I've never really done real monitor calibration before. What process or program would you recommend?[/quote]
Hello. Sorry for the delay, I have been busy. In fact the advice is simple: use a hardware calibration method. I have tested several software methods/programs with no success and results kind of strange or incoherent with what they should be. For hardware, I would suggest the XRite EyeOne 2 Display, or the Spyder Pro 3. People recommends the EyeOne 2, but it is a bit more expensive than the Spyder. It seems that the EyeOne is better detecting differences low intensity colors...But the spyder 3 is generally considered a quite good probe. I found my EyeOne 2 in ebay.co.uk from a professional seller, brand new and with manufacturer 2 years guarantee at about 100-120 € (don't remember exactly): half the normal price, though.
If you use your PC to retouch/adjust photos then I would say it is highly recommended to calibrate your screen correctly. If not, you risk to adjust, let say, tone and saturation for example, according to [u]your[/u] monitor, but when you display or print theses photos in a labo or other's screen you likely will be badly surprised: tone, tints, brightness could be different to what you expected.
I don't want to deviate this topic, so I stop here. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions, though.
On the main topic subject, unhappily I don't have any news, my screen is always showing the interlaced lines. About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.
[quote name='liquor beard' post='572860' date='Aug 1 2009, 06:12 PM']I've never really done real monitor calibration before. What process or program would you recommend?
Hello. Sorry for the delay, I have been busy. In fact the advice is simple: use a hardware calibration method. I have tested several software methods/programs with no success and results kind of strange or incoherent with what they should be. For hardware, I would suggest the XRite EyeOne 2 Display, or the Spyder Pro 3. People recommends the EyeOne 2, but it is a bit more expensive than the Spyder. It seems that the EyeOne is better detecting differences low intensity colors...But the spyder 3 is generally considered a quite good probe. I found my EyeOne 2 in ebay.co.uk from a professional seller, brand new and with manufacturer 2 years guarantee at about 100-120 € (don't remember exactly): half the normal price, though.
If you use your PC to retouch/adjust photos then I would say it is highly recommended to calibrate your screen correctly. If not, you risk to adjust, let say, tone and saturation for example, according to your monitor, but when you display or print theses photos in a labo or other's screen you likely will be badly surprised: tone, tints, brightness could be different to what you expected.
I don't want to deviate this topic, so I stop here. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions, though.
On the main topic subject, unhappily I don't have any news, my screen is always showing the interlaced lines. About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
[quote name='Zeddy1234' post='576104' date='Aug 9 2009, 04:02 PM']Actually, they do sort of. You can find comparison pictures on page 3 post #52.[/quote]
Thank you, I missed the pictures the first time I read this topic (I was at work, image hosting sites are blacklisted).
I can confirm that we experience the same problem.
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='576136' date='Aug 9 2009, 06:13 PM'](...)
About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.[/quote]
Thank you for your reply.
Honestly, I think that it was pure chance if the problem disappeared the week after I changed my PSU. And yes, my home is earth grounded.
I think about it last night, and I remember that when I plugged the two new connector of my PSU on my graphic card, I push on it and maybe it re-plug it in the PCI-E port.
I opened my computer and removed then put again my graphic card in the PCI-E port of my mobo. When I restarted my computer, the problem was gone... but only for a few minutes. 10mn later, It was back.
I'll try to discharge my mobo, as you said.
I'll also try to plug my graphic card on the second PCI-E port on my mobo.
And of course I'll let you know.
The weird thing is that I don't use Stereoscopic 3D at all, and I experience the same problem.
More and more, I think the failure come from the graphic card itself.
About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.
Thank you for your reply.
Honestly, I think that it was pure chance if the problem disappeared the week after I changed my PSU. And yes, my home is earth grounded.
I think about it last night, and I remember that when I plugged the two new connector of my PSU on my graphic card, I push on it and maybe it re-plug it in the PCI-E port.
I opened my computer and removed then put again my graphic card in the PCI-E port of my mobo. When I restarted my computer, the problem was gone... but only for a few minutes. 10mn later, It was back.
I'll try to discharge my mobo, as you said.
I'll also try to plug my graphic card on the second PCI-E port on my mobo.
And of course I'll let you know.
The weird thing is that I don't use Stereoscopic 3D at all, and I experience the same problem.
More and more, I think the failure come from the graphic card itself.
[quote name='Nayx' post='575445' date='Aug 7 2009, 11:41 AM']I know I'm in the 3D section of the forum, and I don't use this feature of my video card.
But some people in this topic said they are experiencing the problem without the 3D feature activated, and without running video games.
So I have reasons to believe that we are experiencing the same problem.
PS : I'm not even sure that we are talking about the same problem, but as I said, this is the closest description I saw on internet that fit my case.
I can post pictures if you want, we can clearly see the "grainy" effect and horizontal lines.[/quote]
My guess is that you are experiencing the same symptoms we are -- but for some reason yours is happening in Windows. So you sort of have a worse problem. That sucks.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)
[quote name='Nayx' post='575445' date='Aug 7 2009, 11:41 AM']I know I'm in the 3D section of the forum, and I don't use this feature of my video card.
But some people in this topic said they are experiencing the problem without the 3D feature activated, and without running video games.
So I have reasons to believe that we are experiencing the same problem.
PS : I'm not even sure that we are talking about the same problem, but as I said, this is the closest description I saw on internet that fit my case.
I can post pictures if you want, we can clearly see the "grainy" effect and horizontal lines.
My guess is that you are experiencing the same symptoms we are -- but for some reason yours is happening in Windows. So you sort of have a worse problem. That sucks.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)
[quote name='Metyx' post='576150' date='Aug 9 2009, 07:38 PM']My guess is that you are experiencing the same symptoms we are -- but for some reason yours is happening in Windows. So you sort of have a worse problem. That sucks.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)[/quote]
It seems that he has not 3D Vision, but maybe I am wrong; he will confirm.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in [b]2D LCDs[/b]) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode [b]inside[/b] the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a [b]special 3D mode [/b]for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.
[quote name='Metyx' post='576150' date='Aug 9 2009, 07:38 PM']My guess is that you are experiencing the same symptoms we are -- but for some reason yours is happening in Windows. So you sort of have a worse problem. That sucks.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)
It seems that he has not 3D Vision, but maybe I am wrong; he will confirm.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in 2D LCDs) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode inside the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a special 3D mode for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='576156' date='Aug 9 2009, 10:58 AM']It seems that he has not 3D Vision, but maybe I am wrong; he will confirm.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in [b]2D LCDs[/b]) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode [b]inside[/b] the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a [b]special 3D mode [/b]for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.[/quote]
Speaking of CRTs, can anyone confirm with screenshots that they don't have the interlaced effect with their CRT? I did a test with my Viewsonic CRT (see my older post) and it did in fact have the same horizontal lines issue.
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='576156' date='Aug 9 2009, 10:58 AM']It seems that he has not 3D Vision, but maybe I am wrong; he will confirm.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in 2D LCDs) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode inside the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a special 3D mode for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.
Speaking of CRTs, can anyone confirm with screenshots that they don't have the interlaced effect with their CRT? I did a test with my Viewsonic CRT (see my older post) and it did in fact have the same horizontal lines issue.
Is it correct too if i say that Metyx used a two card SLI version and encountered the problems too? Its very important for me to know.
Thanks again.
P.S. @ Offtopic. Screen while under 3D Projection is always brighter than in normal mode with Shutter glasses. Thats because the glass covers the right eye for a timeperiod and than the left eye, so the eyes always just get half of the time a picture, which means the picture itself has to be twice as bright under 3D projection than a usual picture. Just FYI btw.
Offtopic 2: Always get a X-Rite, because 2/3 of the Datacolors are always not accurate enough, so they end as the entry-customer versions. And as Darkbluesky said the X-Rites are much faster detecting low brightnes circumstances. Here is a very simple documentation of how to calibrate a monitor: [url="http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115918&sid=301b02038e8346a209d8c37304928777#115918"]http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.p...04928777#115918[/url]
Is it correct too if i say that Metyx used a two card SLI version and encountered the problems too? Its very important for me to know.
Thanks again.
P.S. @ Offtopic. Screen while under 3D Projection is always brighter than in normal mode with Shutter glasses. Thats because the glass covers the right eye for a timeperiod and than the left eye, so the eyes always just get half of the time a picture, which means the picture itself has to be twice as bright under 3D projection than a usual picture. Just FYI btw.
Offtopic 2: Always get a X-Rite, because 2/3 of the Datacolors are always not accurate enough, so they end as the entry-customer versions. And as Darkbluesky said the X-Rites are much faster detecting low brightnes circumstances. Here is a very simple documentation of how to calibrate a monitor: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.p...04928777#115918
[quote name='liquor beard' post='576159' date='Aug 9 2009, 08:28 PM']Speaking of CRTs, can anyone confirm with screenshots that they don't have the interlaced effect with their CRT? I did a test with my Viewsonic CRT (see my older post) and it did in fact have the same horizontal lines issue.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure my CRT doesn't show this interlaced effect, see the attached pictures, taken at 1152x864 @ 100 Hz (my camera is pretty bad, but even so...). I'm on the verge of ordering the 2233RZ, if I do, I'll be sure to report back.
EDIT: Forgot to say which image is which: The first one is with 3D mode turned off in the CP (also disconnected infrared transmitter to be sure), the second one is with 3D mode turned on.
[quote name='liquor beard' post='576159' date='Aug 9 2009, 08:28 PM']Speaking of CRTs, can anyone confirm with screenshots that they don't have the interlaced effect with their CRT? I did a test with my Viewsonic CRT (see my older post) and it did in fact have the same horizontal lines issue.
I'm pretty sure my CRT doesn't show this interlaced effect, see the attached pictures, taken at 1152x864 @ 100 Hz (my camera is pretty bad, but even so...). I'm on the verge of ordering the 2233RZ, if I do, I'll be sure to report back.
EDIT: Forgot to say which image is which: The first one is with 3D mode turned off in the CP (also disconnected infrared transmitter to be sure), the second one is with 3D mode turned on.
Thank you very much for your replies.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
[quote name='Nayx' post='576371' date='Aug 10 2009, 12:05 PM']Thank you very much for your replies.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
Thanks for helping me.[/quote]
If you see it also in BIOS screens, then I can only think in 4 possible causes:
1. Hardware (gfx card or screen are the most probable). We will see after your test with the old viewsonic lcd.
2. Bad BIOS either in mobo or in GPU. If you are going to reflash them, remember to set the bios settings back to stock in case you have something overclocked, before flashing BIOSes.
3. Bad Samsung LCD firmware. But that has bad solution (at side of RMA, of course). I think that the LCD manufacturers don't allow to update firmware, usually.
4. This I think is unlikely, but just in case: Is your system (mobo, cpu or gpu) overclocked? If so, could you put all to stock, reset bios (make a paper copy of settings before) and try?
Can't think in nothing more for the moment. Personally I think that in your case, it is hardware failure, though.
[quote name='Nayx' post='576371' date='Aug 10 2009, 12:05 PM']Thank you very much for your replies.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
Thanks for helping me.
If you see it also in BIOS screens, then I can only think in 4 possible causes:
1. Hardware (gfx card or screen are the most probable). We will see after your test with the old viewsonic lcd.
2. Bad BIOS either in mobo or in GPU. If you are going to reflash them, remember to set the bios settings back to stock in case you have something overclocked, before flashing BIOSes.
3. Bad Samsung LCD firmware. But that has bad solution (at side of RMA, of course). I think that the LCD manufacturers don't allow to update firmware, usually.
4. This I think is unlikely, but just in case: Is your system (mobo, cpu or gpu) overclocked? If so, could you put all to stock, reset bios (make a paper copy of settings before) and try?
Can't think in nothing more for the moment. Personally I think that in your case, it is hardware failure, though.
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
I try again some configuration tips on my motherboard.
First, I updated my BIOS (I have a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5) to the latest version.
I also unplugged my GTX285, which was plugged on the second PCI-E connector (PCI-E x16_2). As explain in the motherboard manual, the recommended connector if using only one video card is the first connector (PCI-E x16_1).
I saw an option in the BIOS : Init Display First
It was set to : PCI (nothing is plug on my PCI connector)
I set it to : PCI-E x16_1 (the connector on wich my video card is plugged)
I don't have any problem last night, I launched 3Dmark06 several times while I was away, and the display was fine.
I can play Left 4 Dead for 2 hours, wihtout any problem too.
I can't be sure that the configuration I made solved the problem.
As I said, after I replaced my PSU, the problem disappear for a week, and then came back.
So, wait and see.
I will confirm if the problem disappear completely.
But I'm afraid my next post will talk about the come back of the problem.
If it come back, I'll try to change the DVI cable, or try to connect another screen.
PS : Yesterday, before I changed my motherboard setup, I clearly saw the problem on the POST screen at boot, so I confirm, It's not only happening in Windows (so a driver issue, or a Windows reinstall are not an option)
I try again some configuration tips on my motherboard.
First, I updated my BIOS (I have a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5) to the latest version.
I also unplugged my GTX285, which was plugged on the second PCI-E connector (PCI-E x16_2). As explain in the motherboard manual, the recommended connector if using only one video card is the first connector (PCI-E x16_1).
I saw an option in the BIOS : Init Display First
It was set to : PCI (nothing is plug on my PCI connector)
I set it to : PCI-E x16_1 (the connector on wich my video card is plugged)
I don't have any problem last night, I launched 3Dmark06 several times while I was away, and the display was fine.
I can play Left 4 Dead for 2 hours, wihtout any problem too.
I can't be sure that the configuration I made solved the problem.
As I said, after I replaced my PSU, the problem disappear for a week, and then came back.
So, wait and see.
I will confirm if the problem disappear completely.
But I'm afraid my next post will talk about the come back of the problem.
If it come back, I'll try to change the DVI cable, or try to connect another screen.
PS : Yesterday, before I changed my motherboard setup, I clearly saw the problem on the POST screen at boot, so I confirm, It's not only happening in Windows (so a driver issue, or a Windows reinstall are not an option)
I think it was said before, but I worked around the problem, by just plugging out the IR Emitter before starting a fullscreen application, when I don't want to activate 3D.
To test it: Just open a game with the emitter plugged in. You should see the horizontal lines then. Then Alt+Tab out, plug the emitter off and switch into the game again -> no lines there.
When i activate 3D I don't see any lines anyway. They might be there, but I just don't recognize them when focusing on the game.
Sorry if I just repeated a former post here. I didn't read everything.
I think it was said before, but I worked around the problem, by just plugging out the IR Emitter before starting a fullscreen application, when I don't want to activate 3D.
To test it: Just open a game with the emitter plugged in. You should see the horizontal lines then. Then Alt+Tab out, plug the emitter off and switch into the game again -> no lines there.
When i activate 3D I don't see any lines anyway. They might be there, but I just don't recognize them when focusing on the game.
Sorry if I just repeated a former post here. I didn't read everything.
I wanted to ask if these Scanlines also occur on Systems with two graphiccards. So do someone with a SLI-System encountered as well.
Excuse me for my bad english and i thank in advance for the answers.
Edit: I forgot to mention the graphiccards with two Chips on one board like the gx2 or 295 are also important to know.[/quote]
I'm using a GTX 295, so yes, in my case it is happening on an SLI setup.
I wanted to ask if these Scanlines also occur on Systems with two graphiccards. So do someone with a SLI-System encountered as well.
Excuse me for my bad english and i thank in advance for the answers.
Edit: I forgot to mention the graphiccards with two Chips on one board like the gx2 or 295 are also important to know.
I'm using a GTX 295, so yes, in my case it is happening on an SLI setup.
Does the pictures I post looks like the problem you encounter, or not ?
Thanks in advance.
Does the pictures I post looks like the problem you encounter, or not ?
Thanks in advance.
Does the pictures I post looks like the problem you encounter, or not ?
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
Actually, they do sort of. You can find comparison pictures on page 3 post #52.
Does the pictures I post looks like the problem you encounter, or not ?
Thanks in advance.
Actually, they do sort of. You can find comparison pictures on page 3 post #52.
Hello. Sorry for the delay, I have been busy. In fact the advice is simple: use a hardware calibration method. I have tested several software methods/programs with no success and results kind of strange or incoherent with what they should be. For hardware, I would suggest the XRite EyeOne 2 Display, or the Spyder Pro 3. People recommends the EyeOne 2, but it is a bit more expensive than the Spyder. It seems that the EyeOne is better detecting differences low intensity colors...But the spyder 3 is generally considered a quite good probe. I found my EyeOne 2 in ebay.co.uk from a professional seller, brand new and with manufacturer 2 years guarantee at about 100-120 € (don't remember exactly): half the normal price, though.
If you use your PC to retouch/adjust photos then I would say it is highly recommended to calibrate your screen correctly. If not, you risk to adjust, let say, tone and saturation for example, according to [u]your[/u] monitor, but when you display or print theses photos in a labo or other's screen you likely will be badly surprised: tone, tints, brightness could be different to what you expected.
I don't want to deviate this topic, so I stop here. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions, though.
On the main topic subject, unhappily I don't have any news, my screen is always showing the interlaced lines. About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.
Hello. Sorry for the delay, I have been busy. In fact the advice is simple: use a hardware calibration method. I have tested several software methods/programs with no success and results kind of strange or incoherent with what they should be. For hardware, I would suggest the XRite EyeOne 2 Display, or the Spyder Pro 3. People recommends the EyeOne 2, but it is a bit more expensive than the Spyder. It seems that the EyeOne is better detecting differences low intensity colors...But the spyder 3 is generally considered a quite good probe. I found my EyeOne 2 in ebay.co.uk from a professional seller, brand new and with manufacturer 2 years guarantee at about 100-120 € (don't remember exactly): half the normal price, though.
If you use your PC to retouch/adjust photos then I would say it is highly recommended to calibrate your screen correctly. If not, you risk to adjust, let say, tone and saturation for example, according to your monitor, but when you display or print theses photos in a labo or other's screen you likely will be badly surprised: tone, tints, brightness could be different to what you expected.
I don't want to deviate this topic, so I stop here. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions, though.
On the main topic subject, unhappily I don't have any news, my screen is always showing the interlaced lines. About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
Thank you, I missed the pictures the first time I read this topic (I was at work, image hosting sites are blacklisted).
I can confirm that we experience the same problem.
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='576136' date='Aug 9 2009, 06:13 PM'](...)
About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.[/quote]
Thank you for your reply.
Honestly, I think that it was pure chance if the problem disappeared the week after I changed my PSU. And yes, my home is earth grounded.
I think about it last night, and I remember that when I plugged the two new connector of my PSU on my graphic card, I push on it and maybe it re-plug it in the PCI-E port.
I opened my computer and removed then put again my graphic card in the PCI-E port of my mobo. When I restarted my computer, the problem was gone... but only for a few minutes. 10mn later, It was back.
I'll try to discharge my mobo, as you said.
I'll also try to plug my graphic card on the second PCI-E port on my mobo.
And of course I'll let you know.
The weird thing is that I don't use Stereoscopic 3D at all, and I experience the same problem.
More and more, I think the failure come from the graphic card itself.
Thank you, I missed the pictures the first time I read this topic (I was at work, image hosting sites are blacklisted).
I can confirm that we experience the same problem.
[quote name='Darkbluesky' post='576136' date='Aug 9 2009, 06:13 PM'](...)
About the Nayx problem, indeed your lines are very similar (if not equal) than the ones put here, but I don't know what could be the problem. It surprise me that when you changed your PSU connection of the card the problem disappeared during a week, maybe in your case is something related to that. Maybe I make a silly guess, but is your home earth grounded? Could you try to swith off PC, unplug Pc and screen and push Power button (to discharge mobo) and then try it? I see unlikely that it will solve it but who knows...? Maybe it could give us a clue.
Thank you for your reply.
Honestly, I think that it was pure chance if the problem disappeared the week after I changed my PSU. And yes, my home is earth grounded.
I think about it last night, and I remember that when I plugged the two new connector of my PSU on my graphic card, I push on it and maybe it re-plug it in the PCI-E port.
I opened my computer and removed then put again my graphic card in the PCI-E port of my mobo. When I restarted my computer, the problem was gone... but only for a few minutes. 10mn later, It was back.
I'll try to discharge my mobo, as you said.
I'll also try to plug my graphic card on the second PCI-E port on my mobo.
And of course I'll let you know.
The weird thing is that I don't use Stereoscopic 3D at all, and I experience the same problem.
More and more, I think the failure come from the graphic card itself.
But some people in this topic said they are experiencing the problem without the 3D feature activated, and without running video games.
So I have reasons to believe that we are experiencing the same problem.
PS : I'm not even sure that we are talking about the same problem, but as I said, this is the closest description I saw on internet that fit my case.
I can post pictures if you want, we can clearly see the "grainy" effect and horizontal lines.[/quote]
My guess is that you are experiencing the same symptoms we are -- but for some reason yours is happening in Windows. So you sort of have a worse problem. That sucks.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)
But some people in this topic said they are experiencing the problem without the 3D feature activated, and without running video games.
So I have reasons to believe that we are experiencing the same problem.
PS : I'm not even sure that we are talking about the same problem, but as I said, this is the closest description I saw on internet that fit my case.
I can post pictures if you want, we can clearly see the "grainy" effect and horizontal lines.
My guess is that you are experiencing the same symptoms we are -- but for some reason yours is happening in Windows. So you sort of have a worse problem. That sucks.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)[/quote]
It seems that he has not 3D Vision, but maybe I am wrong; he will confirm.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in [b]2D LCDs[/b]) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode [b]inside[/b] the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a [b]special 3D mode [/b]for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.
Some thoughts I had:
Uninstall the 3D driver altogether (if you have it installed)
Unplug the 3D Vision IR Emitter whether you are using it or not (Do you even own the 3D Vision product? I couldn't tell.)
Try the other DVI connector on your video card
Buy a different dual-link DVI cable from Best Buy and see if that helps. You can return it later if it doesn't.
When the problem happens, unplug the monitor and plug it back in, it might be the monitor having the problem and not your computer
Talk to Samsung -- I think you certainly qualify for a replacement monitor if this keeps happening
(My guess is that the monitor is going into "3D mode" even when you aren't playing a video game. The symptoms are identical, that can't be a coincidence.)
It seems that he has not 3D Vision, but maybe I am wrong; he will confirm.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in 2D LCDs) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode inside the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a special 3D mode for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in [b]2D LCDs[/b]) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode [b]inside[/b] the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a [b]special 3D mode [/b]for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.[/quote]
Speaking of CRTs, can anyone confirm with screenshots that they don't have the interlaced effect with their CRT? I did a test with my Viewsonic CRT (see my older post) and it did in fact have the same horizontal lines issue.
By the way thanks for the calibration advice.
I have to add that I had the problems of interlacing in windows desktop too during a time! I had them after exiting a game (with 3D activated in control panel). I see few relation though with Nayx problem if he has NEVER installed the 3D Vision drivers/CD. In addition, I solved my problem installing the 1.09 3D Vision CD (previous Driver Cleaner, and Driver sweeper use for a clean nvidia drivers (all of them) uninstall)
BUT certainly there is a detail that I find interesting, BOTH monitors; Nayx's one (NOT 3D Vision Ready) and the 3D Vision Ready 2233RZ are both Samsung, maybe they use some technical approach in their monitors that gives that effect in certain circumstances. Maybe that technical approach is really not needed in 2D monitors (that would explain why other brands don't show that problem in 2D LCDs) but it is more necessary for 3D ones (that could explain why the Viewsonic also do it). Of course, only guessing here...
So personally I still prefer the theory of the electronics/3D mode inside the monitors that produce that, in opposition to the drivers "theory".
On the other hand, and only thinking aloud, as the 2233RZ can do 120Hz in desktop without interlaced effect, what could be interesting to know is the result of FORCING the 2233RZ to be recognized as a CRT monitor.
In order to do that, I guess that it could be done a DIY DVI-D connector/adaptor whose ID pin was not connected to the cable from the 2233RZ, instead connected to the ID pin of a CRT able to do 120Hz. If we could make work the samsung 2233RZ as a 120Hz CRT then we, at least, could say that the interlace effect is something related to a special 3D mode for the samsung (and viewsonic).
Well, I guess that it's not very useful as I asume that the samsung is really capable of gaming at 120 Hz without the interlaced effect, because when 3D is unabled in control panel, we can play in 120Hz, without interlaced effect... Well it was only a (silly) idea... But still I think it could be interesting.
Speaking of CRTs, can anyone confirm with screenshots that they don't have the interlaced effect with their CRT? I did a test with my Viewsonic CRT (see my older post) and it did in fact have the same horizontal lines issue.
By the way thanks for the calibration advice.
Is it correct too if i say that Metyx used a two card SLI version and encountered the problems too? Its very important for me to know.
Thanks again.
P.S. @ Offtopic. Screen while under 3D Projection is always brighter than in normal mode with Shutter glasses. Thats because the glass covers the right eye for a timeperiod and than the left eye, so the eyes always just get half of the time a picture, which means the picture itself has to be twice as bright under 3D projection than a usual picture. Just FYI btw.
Offtopic 2: Always get a X-Rite, because 2/3 of the Datacolors are always not accurate enough, so they end as the entry-customer versions. And as Darkbluesky said the X-Rites are much faster detecting low brightnes circumstances. Here is a very simple documentation of how to calibrate a monitor: [url="http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115918&sid=301b02038e8346a209d8c37304928777#115918"]http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.p...04928777#115918[/url]
Edit: Im so bad with names, always mixing up ^^
Is it correct too if i say that Metyx used a two card SLI version and encountered the problems too? Its very important for me to know.
Thanks again.
P.S. @ Offtopic. Screen while under 3D Projection is always brighter than in normal mode with Shutter glasses. Thats because the glass covers the right eye for a timeperiod and than the left eye, so the eyes always just get half of the time a picture, which means the picture itself has to be twice as bright under 3D projection than a usual picture. Just FYI btw.
Offtopic 2: Always get a X-Rite, because 2/3 of the Datacolors are always not accurate enough, so they end as the entry-customer versions. And as Darkbluesky said the X-Rites are much faster detecting low brightnes circumstances. Here is a very simple documentation of how to calibrate a monitor: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.p...04928777#115918
Edit: Im so bad with names, always mixing up ^^
I'm pretty sure my CRT doesn't show this interlaced effect, see the attached pictures, taken at 1152x864 @ 100 Hz (my camera is pretty bad, but even so...). I'm on the verge of ordering the 2233RZ, if I do, I'll be sure to report back.
EDIT: Forgot to say which image is which: The first one is with 3D mode turned off in the CP (also disconnected infrared transmitter to be sure), the second one is with 3D mode turned on.
I'm pretty sure my CRT doesn't show this interlaced effect, see the attached pictures, taken at 1152x864 @ 100 Hz (my camera is pretty bad, but even so...). I'm on the verge of ordering the 2233RZ, if I do, I'll be sure to report back.
EDIT: Forgot to say which image is which: The first one is with 3D mode turned off in the CP (also disconnected infrared transmitter to be sure), the second one is with 3D mode turned on.
CPU: Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.40 GHz
GPU: Geforce GTX 480 @ 850/2000 MHz, Geforce GTX 460 (PhysX/CUDA)
RAM: 6 GB OCZ DDR3-1333 CL7
MOBO: ASUS P6T
PSU: Enermax Pro82+ 625 W
HDD: SuperTalent Ultradrive GX2 128 GB, 2x Seagate Barracuda 1.5 TB
SOUND: Creative X-Fi Elite Pro
DISPLAY: Dell 3007 WFP, Geforce 3D Vision on eMachines V700
INPUT: Logitech G5 + G11
OS: Windows 7 Professional x64
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
Thanks for helping me.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
Thanks for helping me.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
Thanks for helping me.[/quote]
If you see it also in BIOS screens, then I can only think in 4 possible causes:
1. Hardware (gfx card or screen are the most probable). We will see after your test with the old viewsonic lcd.
2. Bad BIOS either in mobo or in GPU. If you are going to reflash them, remember to set the bios settings back to stock in case you have something overclocked, before flashing BIOSes.
3. Bad Samsung LCD firmware. But that has bad solution (at side of RMA, of course). I think that the LCD manufacturers don't allow to update firmware, usually.
4. This I think is unlikely, but just in case: Is your system (mobo, cpu or gpu) overclocked? If so, could you put all to stock, reset bios (make a paper copy of settings before) and try?
Can't think in nothing more for the moment. Personally I think that in your case, it is hardware failure, though.
It's good to see I'm not alone facing that kind of issue.
I can confirm that I don't have the 3D Vision product, and I never install the 3D Vision drivers.
I already try to connect my monitor to the second DVI connector of my video card, while the problem is happening, whithout any result.
As I said, I think the problem is also happening in the BIOS. It's difficult to say because the resolution is very low, so the interlace effect is not happening, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS. I remember when I don't see it in the BIOS, when windows boot, the desktop is displayed properly. But when I see the flickering/grainy effect in the BIOS, when Windows boot, I see the interlace/grainy effect on Windows desktop.
I can confirm that BIOS issue with some pictures, to be sure.
I will try with an old LCD screen (Viewsonic vp171b) and let you know if the problem appears too.
Maybe you're right, it's a monitor issue. I don't know what is the special 3D mode of the Samsung screen. I don't think my monitor have this feature.
What is sure, is that this problem is driving me crazy.
Thanks for helping me.
If you see it also in BIOS screens, then I can only think in 4 possible causes:
1. Hardware (gfx card or screen are the most probable). We will see after your test with the old viewsonic lcd.
2. Bad BIOS either in mobo or in GPU. If you are going to reflash them, remember to set the bios settings back to stock in case you have something overclocked, before flashing BIOSes.
3. Bad Samsung LCD firmware. But that has bad solution (at side of RMA, of course). I think that the LCD manufacturers don't allow to update firmware, usually.
4. This I think is unlikely, but just in case: Is your system (mobo, cpu or gpu) overclocked? If so, could you put all to stock, reset bios (make a paper copy of settings before) and try?
Can't think in nothing more for the moment. Personally I think that in your case, it is hardware failure, though.
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) // Intel 9700K CPU // 32Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 RAM // Asus GTX1060 6Gb Strix GPU // NVIDIA Quadro K620 GPU // Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Capture Card // Orico 7 USB 3.0 PCIe Expansion card // Corsair AX860i PSU // Phanteks Evolv X case // Logitech G903 mouse // Logitech PowerPlay charging mouse pad // Logitech Illuminated keyboard // Wacom Intuos 4 tablet // Creative GigaWorks T20 II speakers // Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphones // Dell U2413 LCD // 3D Ready Samsung 2233RZ LCD // Nvidia 3D Vision glasses 1 & 2 // 3D compatible Sharp XR-10X DLP Projector // Da-Lite 100" HighPower Gain 2.8 Projection screen // XRite i1Display Pro // MadCatz Cyborg Gaming Lights // NZXT HUE 2 // Corsair Commander Pro // Corsair Lighting Node Pro // IcyBox External HDD // Naturalpoint TrackIR 5 Pro // Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 Red // Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar // Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals // Windows 10 x64
I'll try some tests as soon as possible, and confirm with some pictures that the problem also appears in BIOS screens (maybe I'm wrong).
I'll try some tests as soon as possible, and confirm with some pictures that the problem also appears in BIOS screens (maybe I'm wrong).
I try again some configuration tips on my motherboard.
First, I updated my BIOS (I have a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5) to the latest version.
I also unplugged my GTX285, which was plugged on the second PCI-E connector (PCI-E x16_2). As explain in the motherboard manual, the recommended connector if using only one video card is the first connector (PCI-E x16_1).
I saw an option in the BIOS : Init Display First
It was set to : PCI (nothing is plug on my PCI connector)
I set it to : PCI-E x16_1 (the connector on wich my video card is plugged)
I don't have any problem last night, I launched 3Dmark06 several times while I was away, and the display was fine.
I can play Left 4 Dead for 2 hours, wihtout any problem too.
I can't be sure that the configuration I made solved the problem.
As I said, after I replaced my PSU, the problem disappear for a week, and then came back.
So, wait and see.
I will confirm if the problem disappear completely.
But I'm afraid my next post will talk about the come back of the problem.
If it come back, I'll try to change the DVI cable, or try to connect another screen.
PS : Yesterday, before I changed my motherboard setup, I clearly saw the problem on the POST screen at boot, so I confirm, It's not only happening in Windows (so a driver issue, or a Windows reinstall are not an option)
I try again some configuration tips on my motherboard.
First, I updated my BIOS (I have a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5) to the latest version.
I also unplugged my GTX285, which was plugged on the second PCI-E connector (PCI-E x16_2). As explain in the motherboard manual, the recommended connector if using only one video card is the first connector (PCI-E x16_1).
I saw an option in the BIOS : Init Display First
It was set to : PCI (nothing is plug on my PCI connector)
I set it to : PCI-E x16_1 (the connector on wich my video card is plugged)
I don't have any problem last night, I launched 3Dmark06 several times while I was away, and the display was fine.
I can play Left 4 Dead for 2 hours, wihtout any problem too.
I can't be sure that the configuration I made solved the problem.
As I said, after I replaced my PSU, the problem disappear for a week, and then came back.
So, wait and see.
I will confirm if the problem disappear completely.
But I'm afraid my next post will talk about the come back of the problem.
If it come back, I'll try to change the DVI cable, or try to connect another screen.
PS : Yesterday, before I changed my motherboard setup, I clearly saw the problem on the POST screen at boot, so I confirm, It's not only happening in Windows (so a driver issue, or a Windows reinstall are not an option)
To test it: Just open a game with the emitter plugged in. You should see the horizontal lines then. Then Alt+Tab out, plug the emitter off and switch into the game again -> no lines there.
When i activate 3D I don't see any lines anyway. They might be there, but I just don't recognize them when focusing on the game.
Sorry if I just repeated a former post here. I didn't read everything.
To test it: Just open a game with the emitter plugged in. You should see the horizontal lines then. Then Alt+Tab out, plug the emitter off and switch into the game again -> no lines there.
When i activate 3D I don't see any lines anyway. They might be there, but I just don't recognize them when focusing on the game.
Sorry if I just repeated a former post here. I didn't read everything.