discussion about depth and convergence
...
...

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#1
Posted 02/25/2016 08:02 PM   
only anaglyphe 3D here
only anaglyphe 3D here

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR

#2
Posted 02/25/2016 08:13 PM   
I downloaded [the video] and viewed it cross-eyed and I barely noticed any depth whatsoever... the views are shifted left and right but it's extremely flat, did you adjust convergence? http://keepvid.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfNlVsFc7XRE
I downloaded [the video] and viewed it cross-eyed and I barely noticed any depth whatsoever... the views are shifted left and right but it's extremely flat, did you adjust convergence?
http://keepvid.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfNlVsFc7XRE
#3
Posted 02/25/2016 08:26 PM   
[quote="TsaebehT"]I downloaded [the video] and viewed it cross-eyed and I barely noticed any depth whatsoever... the views are shifted left and right but it's extremely flat, did you adjust convergence? http://keepvid.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfNlVsFc7XRE[/quote] https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/824725/3d-vision/beginners-guide-to-understanding-and-using-nvidia-3d-vision-3dtv-play-wip-/ Your guide tells people to start at 100% depth. From my experience, high depth is a good way to get a headache. Do you have anything to say about the topic?
TsaebehT said:I downloaded [the video] and viewed it cross-eyed and I barely noticed any depth whatsoever... the views are shifted left and right but it's extremely flat, did you adjust convergence?
http://keepvid.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfNlVsFc7XRE


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/824725/3d-vision/beginners-guide-to-understanding-and-using-nvidia-3d-vision-3dtv-play-wip-/

Your guide tells people to start at 100% depth.
From my experience, high depth is a good way to get a headache.

Do you have anything to say about the topic?

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#4
Posted 02/25/2016 08:46 PM   
Ok? My guide also says... "if possible. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time." either way, Convergence and Depth may be be two separate Settings but Convergence can add just as much perceivable depth to a scene as Depth. Meaning you can play a game at minimumal Depth and by adding Convergence it can look just as good, my point was I didn't see either of those in the video, it looked extremely flat to me... it's nothing personal just an observation.
Ok? My guide also says... "if possible. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time." either way, Convergence and Depth may be be two separate Settings but Convergence can add just as much perceivable depth to a scene as Depth. Meaning you can play a game at minimumal Depth and by adding Convergence it can look just as good, my point was I didn't see either of those in the video, it looked extremely flat to me... it's nothing personal just an observation.
#5
Posted 02/25/2016 09:04 PM   
Thx for the tip keepvid TsaebehT ;)
Thx for the tip keepvid TsaebehT ;)

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/chtiblue/album/530b52d4cb85770d6e000049/3Dvision with 49" Philips 49PUS7100 interlieved 3D (3840x2160) overide mode, GTX 1080 GFA2 EXOC, core i5 @4.3GHz, 16Gb@2130, windows 7&10 64bit, Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Marantz 6010 AVR

#6
Posted 02/25/2016 09:04 PM   
[quote="TsaebehT"]Ok? My guide also says... "if possible. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time." either way, Convergence and Depth may be be two separate Settings but Convergence can add just as much perceivable depth to a scene as Depth. Meaning you can play a game at minimumal Depth and by adding Convergence it can look just as good, my point was I didn't see either of those in the video, it looked extremely flat to me... it's nothing personal just an observation. [/quote] Everyone can set depth to 100%. Why would it be impossible? If I wrote a guide, I would tell people to start at 0% depth and go up. Lack of depth is not flat. There is little or no pop-out, but there is pop-in (from convergence). I am viewing on a monitor (see sig), by the way, not a TV. The main reason for not high convergence (and also not high depth) is because this video is meant to be viewed on unknown displays by unknown people with unknown 3D viewing preferences. It is not setup for my (nor your) personal viewing pleasure. It is simply to show: (1) SteamVR demo is flawless in 3D vision and (2) to show performance of G3258 + 750 Ti.
TsaebehT said:Ok? My guide also says... "if possible. If not, slowly work your way up increasing Depth over time." either way, Convergence and Depth may be be two separate Settings but Convergence can add just as much perceivable depth to a scene as Depth. Meaning you can play a game at minimumal Depth and by adding Convergence it can look just as good, my point was I didn't see either of those in the video, it looked extremely flat to me... it's nothing personal just an observation.


Everyone can set depth to 100%. Why would it be impossible?
If I wrote a guide, I would tell people to start at 0% depth and go up.

Lack of depth is not flat. There is little or no pop-out, but there is pop-in (from convergence).
I am viewing on a monitor (see sig), by the way, not a TV.

The main reason for not high convergence (and also not high depth) is because this video is meant to be viewed on unknown displays by unknown people with unknown 3D viewing preferences. It is not setup for my (nor your) personal viewing pleasure. It is simply to show: (1) SteamVR demo is flawless in 3D vision and (2) to show performance of G3258 + 750 Ti.

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#7
Posted 02/25/2016 09:13 PM   
Wow... not sure what to say here, I asked a simple question because I didn't notice any perceivable Depth in the video, which was clearly on-topic... talking about what you just posted. edit:not sure why you're spazzing out so much over my guide but the majority of users have said repeatedly that the 15% default Depth is far too low, some have even said that 100% isn't even enough... the 'if possible' means if you can handle it.
Wow... not sure what to say here, I asked a simple question because I didn't notice any perceivable Depth in the video, which was clearly on-topic... talking about what you just posted.

edit:not sure why you're spazzing out so much over my guide but the majority of users have said repeatedly that the 15% default Depth is far too low, some have even said that 100% isn't even enough... the 'if possible' means if you can handle it.
#8
Posted 02/25/2016 09:28 PM   
[quote="TsaebehT"]Wow... not sure what to say here, I asked a simple question because I didn't notice any perceivable Depth in the video, which was clearly on-topic... talking about what you just posted.[/quote] Your question about depth/convergence was off-topic. Do you seriously think I created this thread to discuss the depth and convergence of a 3D youtube video?? Since no one has discussed the original post (except to quibble about depth/convergence in a youtube video), I changed the topic to "discussion about depth and convergence" and deleted the original post.
TsaebehT said:Wow... not sure what to say here, I asked a simple question because I didn't notice any perceivable Depth in the video, which was clearly on-topic... talking about what you just posted.


Your question about depth/convergence was off-topic.
Do you seriously think I created this thread to discuss the depth and convergence of a 3D youtube video??

Since no one has discussed the original post (except to quibble about depth/convergence in a youtube video), I changed the topic to "discussion about depth and convergence" and deleted the original post.

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#9
Posted 02/25/2016 09:49 PM   
Lol... umm ok? I asked if you adjusted Convergence because the video you posted seemed to lack Depth when I viewed it SBS/Cross-eyed(on-topic), that was it... then you started 'quibbling' about my guide, depth, and off-topicness... *shrug*
Lol... umm ok? I asked if you adjusted Convergence because the video you posted seemed to lack Depth when I viewed it SBS/Cross-eyed(on-topic), that was it... then you started 'quibbling' about my guide, depth, and off-topicness... *shrug*
#10
Posted 02/25/2016 10:01 PM   
I don't think depth is much of a problem, i thinks its unrealistic convergence thats the main source of discomfort. Depth should obviously not be set wider than the IPD. In fact, if the depth convergence are realistic i think the brain has to do a lot less work and therefore might get less headaches.
I don't think depth is much of a problem, i thinks its unrealistic convergence thats the main source of discomfort.

Depth should obviously not be set wider than the IPD.

In fact, if the depth convergence are realistic i think the brain has to do a lot less work and therefore might get less headaches.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#11
Posted 02/25/2016 10:13 PM   
[quote="TsaebehT"]Lol... umm ok? I asked if you adjusted Convergence because the video you posted seemed to lack Depth when I viewed it SBS/Cross-eyed(on-topic), that was it... then you started 'quibbling' about my guide, depth, and off-topicness... *shrug*[/quote] Just because someone posts a 3D screenshot or a 3D video does mean the topic becomes depth/convergence of that particular screenshot or video. Whether or not I adjusted the depth/convergence was absolutely irrelevant to main topic. You did not say one single thing about the future of VR or future of 3D Vision (previous topic). Only thing on your mind was depth/convergence of a 3D youtube video which I posted. There are thousands of 3D screenshots and 3D videos on internet. Instead of spending time on this forum, you could find all those screenshots and, if possible, ask a question next to every one such as "how much did you adjust depth/convergence?" "It looks *blank* to me".
TsaebehT said:Lol... umm ok? I asked if you adjusted Convergence because the video you posted seemed to lack Depth when I viewed it SBS/Cross-eyed(on-topic), that was it... then you started 'quibbling' about my guide, depth, and off-topicness... *shrug*


Just because someone posts a 3D screenshot or a 3D video does mean the topic becomes depth/convergence of that particular screenshot or video.

Whether or not I adjusted the depth/convergence was absolutely irrelevant to main topic.
You did not say one single thing about the future of VR or future of 3D Vision (previous topic). Only thing on your mind was depth/convergence of a 3D youtube video which I posted. There are thousands of 3D screenshots and 3D videos on internet. Instead of spending time on this forum, you could find all those screenshots and, if possible, ask a question next to every one such as "how much did you adjust depth/convergence?" "It looks *blank* to me".

Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#12
Posted 02/25/2016 10:50 PM   
You made the topic about Depth and Convergence... I just wasn't sure if you were seeing good 3D or any 3D at all ffs. Not sure why you turned this into something, I just asked an innocent honest question... smfh. Anyway since we're here... here's a good comparison shot of a Monitor, which technically has a higher Depth percentage ratio, with low Depth(?) without Convergence compared to a 73" DLP, which has a much lower Depth percentage ratio, 100% Depth(equals 33% or so on a 24" Monitor) with properly set Convergence(no pop out in a FPS): [img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/68446/[/img]
You made the topic about Depth and Convergence... I just wasn't sure if you were seeing good 3D or any 3D at all ffs. Not sure why you turned this into something, I just asked an innocent honest question... smfh.

Anyway since we're here... here's a good comparison shot of a Monitor, which technically has a higher Depth percentage ratio, with low Depth(?) without Convergence compared to a 73" DLP, which has a much lower Depth percentage ratio, 100% Depth(equals 33% or so on a 24" Monitor) with properly set Convergence(no pop out in a FPS):

Image
#13
Posted 02/25/2016 11:08 PM   
Here's a more equal comparison of Default Convergence vs Adjusted Convergence. Default Convergence: [img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/68449/[/img] Convergence, aligned in front of face: [img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/68448/[/img] Default Convergence: [img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/68447/[/img] Convergence, same as above: [img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/68450/[/img] *MonitorSize = 146(73") @ 100%(roughly equal to 24" @ 33%)
Here's a more equal comparison of Default Convergence vs Adjusted Convergence.

Default Convergence:
Image

Convergence, aligned in front of face:
Image

Default Convergence:
Image

Convergence, same as above:
Image

*MonitorSize = 146(73") @ 100%(roughly equal to 24" @ 33%)
#14
Posted 02/26/2016 04:00 AM   
It is pretty much always safe to set convergence high enough for the image to touch the screen. Pop-out can be risky if you don't know the viewer's circumstances, but even that is safe within reason - e.g. this image (not a screenshot) has a small amount of pop out on the rocks at the bottom of the frame, and a moderate amount of pop out on the model's hand, but since that is entirely constrained within the frame I can quite comfortably view this embedded inline here, on my 17" laptop, and my 80" projector: [url=http://valen.darkstarsword.net/photos/stereo/workshops/crosseyed/reaching.html][img]http://valen.darkstarsword.net/photos/stereo/workshops/crosseyed/reaching.jpg[/img][/url] Full sized jps: http://valen.darkstarsword.net/photos/stereo/workshops/jps/reaching.jps In this case scaling it up to an 80" projector doesn't violate infinity since the rocks in the background were only a few meters away when I took the photo - not everything can be scaled up safely like that, so separation is probably more the thing to worry about, but even then I wouldn't worry too much - just document what screen size it was calibrated for and recommend against viewing it full screen on anything larger.
It is pretty much always safe to set convergence high enough for the image to touch the screen. Pop-out can be risky if you don't know the viewer's circumstances, but even that is safe within reason - e.g. this image (not a screenshot) has a small amount of pop out on the rocks at the bottom of the frame, and a moderate amount of pop out on the model's hand, but since that is entirely constrained within the frame I can quite comfortably view this embedded inline here, on my 17" laptop, and my 80" projector:

Image

Full sized jps: http://valen.darkstarsword.net/photos/stereo/workshops/jps/reaching.jps

In this case scaling it up to an 80" projector doesn't violate infinity since the rocks in the background were only a few meters away when I took the photo - not everything can be scaled up safely like that, so separation is probably more the thing to worry about, but even then I wouldn't worry too much - just document what screen size it was calibrated for and recommend against viewing it full screen on anything larger.

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#15
Posted 02/26/2016 07:38 AM   
Scroll To Top