1080p 24 fps Is this good enough for games?
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I'm currently running a PC with GTX580 with a (non 3D) LCD 40" TV for my gaming (mostly flight simulators and Crysis 2). I gave the 3D with anaglyph glasses a go the other day and was very impressed with the 3D (though not the colour loss). So now I'm thinking of buying a 3D LCD HD TV to use with nvidia 3dtv play.

From what I gather the highest frequency that the TV will run 3D 1080p will be 24 Hz. Isn't this far too slow for games?

I played around with 3D ages ago with 3D Revelator glasses and using a 120Hz monitor, and even with that rate I found the flicker annoying. Could flicker also be a problem with the system I'm considering.

Is there a lot of colour / brightness / contrast loss with the glasses for 3D TVs (I've never even seen one yet)?

If anyone is using a similar set up to this, are you very impressed with it?

Many thanks for any replies.
I'm currently running a PC with GTX580 with a (non 3D) LCD 40" TV for my gaming (mostly flight simulators and Crysis 2). I gave the 3D with anaglyph glasses a go the other day and was very impressed with the 3D (though not the colour loss). So now I'm thinking of buying a 3D LCD HD TV to use with nvidia 3dtv play.



From what I gather the highest frequency that the TV will run 3D 1080p will be 24 Hz. Isn't this far too slow for games?



I played around with 3D ages ago with 3D Revelator glasses and using a 120Hz monitor, and even with that rate I found the flicker annoying. Could flicker also be a problem with the system I'm considering.



Is there a lot of colour / brightness / contrast loss with the glasses for 3D TVs (I've never even seen one yet)?



If anyone is using a similar set up to this, are you very impressed with it?



Many thanks for any replies.

#1
Posted 05/12/2011 12:16 PM   
Games can also be played at 720p @ 60fps.
Games can also be played at 720p @ 60fps.

#2
Posted 05/12/2011 03:48 PM   
Yes, 24hz is lame!!!! Forget about playing games in 24hz, 1080p 3D is made for bluray3D only. If you want to play games using 3DTV Play you have to stick with 720p 60hz which looks nasty and ugly.

3DVision is awesome, you can't compare anagliph to it, its far superior. The quality is crispy and amazing... You must see for yourself. 3Dvsion is an amazing implementation by Nvidia. Playing games in 3D in a 120hz display is a lot fun, there's just no going back to 2D gaming after you experience 3D gaming. It was the future, now it's the present. 2D is past...

I won't say the same for 3DTV Play (software used to play games in 3D in a 3D ready TV), but it's not Nvidia fault, the 3D Ready TVs available today can only do 1080p 3D frame packing (full resolution per eye) in 24hz, and 720p 60hz, this due to the HDMI 1.4 limitations.
There are other 1080p 3D modes that are able to provide 60hz, but only half resolution per eye, like checkerboard and Side-by-side, which is still better than playing games in 3D in 720p60hz frame packing, cause at least you'll play games in the TV's native resolution, 1080p. 720p gaming doesn't look good, making games look nasty due to scaling. Nvidia says they will implement those options for 3DTV Play in the near future. Well, I've been waiiting for 6 months since Andrew, Nvidia 3Dvision product manager said that, and I think it will take even longer. Nvidia thinks that playing games in 3D in the big screen in 720p60hz is enough for us PC users, a BIG MISTAKE.
Yes, 24hz is lame!!!! Forget about playing games in 24hz, 1080p 3D is made for bluray3D only. If you want to play games using 3DTV Play you have to stick with 720p 60hz which looks nasty and ugly.



3DVision is awesome, you can't compare anagliph to it, its far superior. The quality is crispy and amazing... You must see for yourself. 3Dvsion is an amazing implementation by Nvidia. Playing games in 3D in a 120hz display is a lot fun, there's just no going back to 2D gaming after you experience 3D gaming. It was the future, now it's the present. 2D is past...



I won't say the same for 3DTV Play (software used to play games in 3D in a 3D ready TV), but it's not Nvidia fault, the 3D Ready TVs available today can only do 1080p 3D frame packing (full resolution per eye) in 24hz, and 720p 60hz, this due to the HDMI 1.4 limitations.

There are other 1080p 3D modes that are able to provide 60hz, but only half resolution per eye, like checkerboard and Side-by-side, which is still better than playing games in 3D in 720p60hz frame packing, cause at least you'll play games in the TV's native resolution, 1080p. 720p gaming doesn't look good, making games look nasty due to scaling. Nvidia says they will implement those options for 3DTV Play in the near future. Well, I've been waiiting for 6 months since Andrew, Nvidia 3Dvision product manager said that, and I think it will take even longer. Nvidia thinks that playing games in 3D in the big screen in 720p60hz is enough for us PC users, a BIG MISTAKE.

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#3
Posted 05/12/2011 03:50 PM   
[quote name='francomg' date='12 May 2011 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1305215417' post='1236350']
Yes, 24hz is lame!!!! Forget about playing games in 24hz, 1080p 3D is made for bluray3D only. If you want to play games using 3DTV Play you have to stick with 720p 60hz which looks nasty and ugly.

3DVision is awesome, you can't compare anagliph to it, its far superior. The quality is crispy and amazing... You must see for yourself. 3Dvsion is an amazing implementation by Nvidia. Playing games in 3D in a 120hz display is a lot fun, there's just no going back to 2D gaming after you experience 3D gaming. It was the future, now it's the present. 2D is past...

I won't say the same for 3DTV Play (software used to play games in 3D in a 3D ready TV), but it's not Nvidia fault, the 3D Ready TVs available today can only do 1080p 3D frame packing (full resolution per eye) in 24hz, and 720p 60hz, this due to the HDMI 1.4 limitations.
There are other 1080p 3D modes that are able to provide 60hz, but only half resolution per eye, like checkerboard and Side-by-side, which is still better than playing games in 3D in 720p60hz frame packing, cause at least you'll play games in the TV's native resolution, 1080p. 720p gaming doesn't look good, making games look nasty due to scaling. Nvidia says they will implement those options for 3DTV Play in the near future. Well, I've been waiiting for 6 months since Andrew, Nvidia 3Dvision product manager said that, and I think it will take even longer. Nvidia thinks that playing games in 3D in the big screen in 720p60hz is enough for us PC users, a BIG MISTAKE.
[/quote]

I've used Nvidia 3D on both a 3D monitor and 3D HDTV. In my opinion, 3D in 720p @ 60fps on a big screen HDTV looks great. Couple that with 5.1 surround sound (a lot of people have 5.1 Surround hooked up to their HDTV's) and its just gaming nirvana.

Because the resolution is relatively low, the settings can usually be max-ed out.

Also factor in being able to play on the couch or on your bed (vs sitting at a desk) and 3DTV Play definitely has its place. Personally I like 3DTV Play more than regular Nvidia 3D Vision due to these factors.

The lower resolution of 3DTV Play is a bit overblown. Not a huge issue imo.
[quote name='francomg' date='12 May 2011 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1305215417' post='1236350']

Yes, 24hz is lame!!!! Forget about playing games in 24hz, 1080p 3D is made for bluray3D only. If you want to play games using 3DTV Play you have to stick with 720p 60hz which looks nasty and ugly.



3DVision is awesome, you can't compare anagliph to it, its far superior. The quality is crispy and amazing... You must see for yourself. 3Dvsion is an amazing implementation by Nvidia. Playing games in 3D in a 120hz display is a lot fun, there's just no going back to 2D gaming after you experience 3D gaming. It was the future, now it's the present. 2D is past...



I won't say the same for 3DTV Play (software used to play games in 3D in a 3D ready TV), but it's not Nvidia fault, the 3D Ready TVs available today can only do 1080p 3D frame packing (full resolution per eye) in 24hz, and 720p 60hz, this due to the HDMI 1.4 limitations.

There are other 1080p 3D modes that are able to provide 60hz, but only half resolution per eye, like checkerboard and Side-by-side, which is still better than playing games in 3D in 720p60hz frame packing, cause at least you'll play games in the TV's native resolution, 1080p. 720p gaming doesn't look good, making games look nasty due to scaling. Nvidia says they will implement those options for 3DTV Play in the near future. Well, I've been waiiting for 6 months since Andrew, Nvidia 3Dvision product manager said that, and I think it will take even longer. Nvidia thinks that playing games in 3D in the big screen in 720p60hz is enough for us PC users, a BIG MISTAKE.





I've used Nvidia 3D on both a 3D monitor and 3D HDTV. In my opinion, 3D in 720p @ 60fps on a big screen HDTV looks great. Couple that with 5.1 surround sound (a lot of people have 5.1 Surround hooked up to their HDTV's) and its just gaming nirvana.



Because the resolution is relatively low, the settings can usually be max-ed out.



Also factor in being able to play on the couch or on your bed (vs sitting at a desk) and 3DTV Play definitely has its place. Personally I like 3DTV Play more than regular Nvidia 3D Vision due to these factors.



The lower resolution of 3DTV Play is a bit overblown. Not a huge issue imo.

#4
Posted 05/12/2011 04:20 PM   
analog CRT projector can do 120hz fullHD and 2560*1440 with zero input lag just noone builds it!

Hire me , I'll do it!
analog CRT projector can do 120hz fullHD and 2560*1440 with zero input lag just noone builds it!



Hire me , I'll do it!

#5
Posted 05/12/2011 05:22 PM   
[quote name='Hippo69' date='12 May 2011 - 07:16 AM' timestamp='1305202573' post='1236290']
I'm currently running a PC with GTX580 with a (non 3D) LCD 40" TV for my gaming (mostly flight simulators and Crysis 2). I gave the 3D with anaglyph glasses a go the other day and was very impressed with the 3D (though not the colour loss). So now I'm thinking of buying a 3D LCD HD TV to use with nvidia 3dtv play.

From what I gather the highest frequency that the TV will run 3D 1080p will be 24 Hz. Isn't this far too slow for games?

I played around with 3D ages ago with 3D Revelator glasses and using a 120Hz monitor, and even with that rate I found the flicker annoying. Could flicker also be a problem with the system I'm considering.

Is there a lot of colour / brightness / contrast loss with the glasses for 3D TVs (I've never even seen one yet)?

If anyone is using a similar set up to this, are you very impressed with it?

Many thanks for any replies.
[/quote]

Oh btw, OP, I highly recommend you get a 3D Plasma [b][u]not[/u][/b] a 3D LCD because plasmas have almost no ghosting in 3D while LCD's are notorious for ghosting (ghosting is where you see in image and another much fainter double image nearby).

The 3D LCD monitor I had had a lot of ghosting while the 3D Plasma TV I have has almost no ghosting.
[quote name='Hippo69' date='12 May 2011 - 07:16 AM' timestamp='1305202573' post='1236290']

I'm currently running a PC with GTX580 with a (non 3D) LCD 40" TV for my gaming (mostly flight simulators and Crysis 2). I gave the 3D with anaglyph glasses a go the other day and was very impressed with the 3D (though not the colour loss). So now I'm thinking of buying a 3D LCD HD TV to use with nvidia 3dtv play.



From what I gather the highest frequency that the TV will run 3D 1080p will be 24 Hz. Isn't this far too slow for games?



I played around with 3D ages ago with 3D Revelator glasses and using a 120Hz monitor, and even with that rate I found the flicker annoying. Could flicker also be a problem with the system I'm considering.



Is there a lot of colour / brightness / contrast loss with the glasses for 3D TVs (I've never even seen one yet)?



If anyone is using a similar set up to this, are you very impressed with it?



Many thanks for any replies.





Oh btw, OP, I highly recommend you get a 3D Plasma not a 3D LCD because plasmas have almost no ghosting in 3D while LCD's are notorious for ghosting (ghosting is where you see in image and another much fainter double image nearby).



The 3D LCD monitor I had had a lot of ghosting while the 3D Plasma TV I have has almost no ghosting.

#6
Posted 05/12/2011 05:28 PM   
[quote name='xuimod' date='13 May 2011 - 03:20 AM' timestamp='1305217218' post='1236361']
I've used Nvidia 3D on both a 3D monitor and 3D HDTV. In my opinion, 3D in 720p @ 60fps on a big screen HDTV looks great. Couple that with 5.1 surround sound (a lot of people have 5.1 Surround hooked up to their HDTV's) and its just gaming nirvana.

Because the resolution is relatively low, the settings can usually be max-ed out.

Also factor in being able to play on the couch or on your bed (vs sitting at a desk) and 3DTV Play definitely has its place. Personally I like 3DTV Play more than regular Nvidia 3D Vision due to these factors.

The lower resolution of 3DTV Play is a bit overblown. Not a huge issue imo.
[/quote]
I agree completely. Sure, 1080p@60 3D would be nice, but even on my 135" projector screen, 720p in 3D looks pretty damn impressive.
[quote name='xuimod' date='13 May 2011 - 03:20 AM' timestamp='1305217218' post='1236361']

I've used Nvidia 3D on both a 3D monitor and 3D HDTV. In my opinion, 3D in 720p @ 60fps on a big screen HDTV looks great. Couple that with 5.1 surround sound (a lot of people have 5.1 Surround hooked up to their HDTV's) and its just gaming nirvana.



Because the resolution is relatively low, the settings can usually be max-ed out.



Also factor in being able to play on the couch or on your bed (vs sitting at a desk) and 3DTV Play definitely has its place. Personally I like 3DTV Play more than regular Nvidia 3D Vision due to these factors.



The lower resolution of 3DTV Play is a bit overblown. Not a huge issue imo.



I agree completely. Sure, 1080p@60 3D would be nice, but even on my 135" projector screen, 720p in 3D looks pretty damn impressive.

#7
Posted 05/12/2011 11:36 PM   
24Hz will work for some games, actually. It just depends on what you're playing.
24Hz will work for some games, actually. It just depends on what you're playing.

#8
Posted 05/12/2011 11:57 PM   
[quote name='Ingmar' date='12 May 2011 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1305243363' post='1236493']
720p in 3D looks pretty damn impressive.
[/quote]
Sure, on a 1280x720 display. On a 1920x1080 display it looks hideous. That's what matters to the OP.
[quote name='Ingmar' date='12 May 2011 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1305243363' post='1236493']

720p in 3D looks pretty damn impressive.



Sure, on a 1280x720 display. On a 1920x1080 display it looks hideous. That's what matters to the OP.

#9
Posted 05/13/2011 12:27 AM   
Thank you all for your answers. I think I'd best hold out for a while and see if the situation changes in the future (anyone know if there any plans for TVs with higher refresh for 3d 1080p?). 720p isn't high enough for the flight sims I'm running, and I don't want to go back to a normal monitor (after running on a 40" screeen).

One last question though, some of the TVs I'd looked at advertise refresh rates of 200 Hz; is it not possible to get this working with nvidia's own 3d glasses solution?
Thank you all for your answers. I think I'd best hold out for a while and see if the situation changes in the future (anyone know if there any plans for TVs with higher refresh for 3d 1080p?). 720p isn't high enough for the flight sims I'm running, and I don't want to go back to a normal monitor (after running on a 40" screeen).



One last question though, some of the TVs I'd looked at advertise refresh rates of 200 Hz; is it not possible to get this working with nvidia's own 3d glasses solution?

#10
Posted 05/13/2011 07:00 AM   
[quote name='Hippo69' date='13 May 2011 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1305270046' post='1236568']
Thank you all for your answers. I think I'd best hold out for a while and see if the situation changes in the future (anyone know if there any plans for TVs with higher refresh for 3d 1080p?). 720p isn't high enough for the flight sims I'm running, and I don't want to go back to a normal monitor (after running on a 40" screeen).

One last question though, some of the TVs I'd looked at advertise refresh rates of 200 Hz; is it not possible to get this working with nvidia's own 3d glasses solution?
[/quote]

The 3D at 720p/60fps or 1080p/24fps is a [u]hardware limitation of the hdmi 1.4a standard[/u]. There's only enough bandwidth to support 3D at those resolutions/framerates. So if you want higher resolutions its either wait until a new hdmi standard comes out (which has greater bandwidth) or play on a monitor.

And frankly, a new hdmi standard which supports 3D at higher resolutions is probably years away. My blind (/pinch.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pinch:' />) guess is that a new hdmi standard supporting higher 3D resolutions won't come out until 2013 at least. But that's just a guess (no evidence to support it).
[quote name='Hippo69' date='13 May 2011 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1305270046' post='1236568']

Thank you all for your answers. I think I'd best hold out for a while and see if the situation changes in the future (anyone know if there any plans for TVs with higher refresh for 3d 1080p?). 720p isn't high enough for the flight sims I'm running, and I don't want to go back to a normal monitor (after running on a 40" screeen).



One last question though, some of the TVs I'd looked at advertise refresh rates of 200 Hz; is it not possible to get this working with nvidia's own 3d glasses solution?





The 3D at 720p/60fps or 1080p/24fps is a hardware limitation of the hdmi 1.4a standard. There's only enough bandwidth to support 3D at those resolutions/framerates. So if you want higher resolutions its either wait until a new hdmi standard comes out (which has greater bandwidth) or play on a monitor.



And frankly, a new hdmi standard which supports 3D at higher resolutions is probably years away. My blind (/pinch.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pinch:' />) guess is that a new hdmi standard supporting higher 3D resolutions won't come out until 2013 at least. But that's just a guess (no evidence to support it).

#11
Posted 05/13/2011 12:18 PM   
Hippo, go into your FSX graphics settings and change your FPS slider to 24fps. You will notice that it is perfect, so, do not waste your time. Go and buy a 50 inch Sammy Plasma and enjoy FSX at 1080p.

Not many FSX users get more than 24 frames per second anyway, I certainly do not.

For other action type games such as crysis, then 24 frames are not enough. But for FSX there is no problem.
Hippo, go into your FSX graphics settings and change your FPS slider to 24fps. You will notice that it is perfect, so, do not waste your time. Go and buy a 50 inch Sammy Plasma and enjoy FSX at 1080p.



Not many FSX users get more than 24 frames per second anyway, I certainly do not.



For other action type games such as crysis, then 24 frames are not enough. But for FSX there is no problem.

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#12
Posted 05/13/2011 01:38 PM   
[quote name='Hippo69' date='12 May 2011 - 06:16 AM' timestamp='1305202573' post='1236290']
From what I gather the highest frequency that the TV will run 3D 1080p will be 24 Hz.[/quote]
Not true. Only Samsung offers "checkerboard mode" which allows for 1920x1080 per frame at 60 fps, desireable native resolution 1 to 1 pixel mapping. Any 3D mode that scales a 720P image to 1080P, especially in framepacking mode, looks very bad by comparison (see Francomg's post). This is why Samsung is the overwhelming choice for 3D gaming on a HDTV, savy gamers understand the importance of gaming at native resolution.

People who are recommending scaled 720P on a 1080P display have never gamed in 1080P checkerboard. People who have gamed at both 720P and native rez 1080P CB recommend Samsung.
[quote name='Hippo69' date='12 May 2011 - 06:16 AM' timestamp='1305202573' post='1236290']

From what I gather the highest frequency that the TV will run 3D 1080p will be 24 Hz.

Not true. Only Samsung offers "checkerboard mode" which allows for 1920x1080 per frame at 60 fps, desireable native resolution 1 to 1 pixel mapping. Any 3D mode that scales a 720P image to 1080P, especially in framepacking mode, looks very bad by comparison (see Francomg's post). This is why Samsung is the overwhelming choice for 3D gaming on a HDTV, savy gamers understand the importance of gaming at native resolution.



People who are recommending scaled 720P on a 1080P display have never gamed in 1080P checkerboard. People who have gamed at both 720P and native rez 1080P CB recommend Samsung.

#13
Posted 05/13/2011 03:44 PM   
Gaming 1080p@24Hz is not desireable as most games running at 24FPS are not fluid. You can turn VSync off, however in my experience this resulted in much tearing when there is moderate movement happening and did not look good at all. Some games will even run in slow-mo with vsync on at 24fps. Don't bother trying. Even with triple buffering, games that don't need fast movement, have much mouse lag.

720p@60Hz works great and modern TVs upscale it extremely well, which you most likely get. No console game will do 3D at 1080p either, infact most PS3 games so far are even lower than 720p when in 3D.

Also it is unlikely you even sitting close enough to your TV to notice a difference between 720p and 1080p.

I don't see how anyone can say 720p doesn't look good compared to 1080p unless they have never seen the 2 in person. Having tried many 3D games at 1080p and 720p, it was very hard to see any visual quality difference at all. In addition to that, chances are you can run higher settings and more AA, and the AA alone will even further reduce any difference between 1080p and 720p.

I game on a Panasonic 50" plasma. Ran both 1080p and 720p in many games. As I said, 1080p vs. 720p - go with 720p, it looks just as good as 1080p but without the fps issues. I get no flicker and ghosting is very very minimal and barely noticeable on these 2011 plasma sets except in very high contrast scenes.
Gaming 1080p@24Hz is not desireable as most games running at 24FPS are not fluid. You can turn VSync off, however in my experience this resulted in much tearing when there is moderate movement happening and did not look good at all. Some games will even run in slow-mo with vsync on at 24fps. Don't bother trying. Even with triple buffering, games that don't need fast movement, have much mouse lag.



720p@60Hz works great and modern TVs upscale it extremely well, which you most likely get. No console game will do 3D at 1080p either, infact most PS3 games so far are even lower than 720p when in 3D.



Also it is unlikely you even sitting close enough to your TV to notice a difference between 720p and 1080p.



I don't see how anyone can say 720p doesn't look good compared to 1080p unless they have never seen the 2 in person. Having tried many 3D games at 1080p and 720p, it was very hard to see any visual quality difference at all. In addition to that, chances are you can run higher settings and more AA, and the AA alone will even further reduce any difference between 1080p and 720p.



I game on a Panasonic 50" plasma. Ran both 1080p and 720p in many games. As I said, 1080p vs. 720p - go with 720p, it looks just as good as 1080p but without the fps issues. I get no flicker and ghosting is very very minimal and barely noticeable on these 2011 plasma sets except in very high contrast scenes.

#14
Posted 05/13/2011 04:08 PM   
It's also important to remember that 1080p HDTVs are designed to upscale extremely well because most people will be seeing a *lot* of content @ 720p and 1080i. So it won't be anywhere near to level of poor scaling most PC LCD monitors have.
It's also important to remember that 1080p HDTVs are designed to upscale extremely well because most people will be seeing a *lot* of content @ 720p and 1080i. So it won't be anywhere near to level of poor scaling most PC LCD monitors have.

#15
Posted 05/13/2011 04:22 PM   
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