Ghosting final thoughts and apologies to Nvidia
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Well I have to apologise to Nvidia, glasses are good.

I did additional tests and put black rectangle in various backgrounds and watched in stereo.
You see there ghost - gradient which is cca black in the top good in the middle and again black in the bottom.

So the synchronization is perfect.

During desynchronization I see black gradient movement - the good part is in the bottom and moving to the middle.

So the monitor is not very good - in the gray backgroud brutal overdrive is visible and in the white background monitor never reaches white color.

Only solution would be to increase period glasses are closed but then I do not know what would do (flashing?)

This technology will never be perfect with LCD I guess.

Quite dissapointed.
Well I have to apologise to Nvidia, glasses are good.



I did additional tests and put black rectangle in various backgrounds and watched in stereo.

You see there ghost - gradient which is cca black in the top good in the middle and again black in the bottom.



So the synchronization is perfect.



During desynchronization I see black gradient movement - the good part is in the bottom and moving to the middle.



So the monitor is not very good - in the gray backgroud brutal overdrive is visible and in the white background monitor never reaches white color.



Only solution would be to increase period glasses are closed but then I do not know what would do (flashing?)



This technology will never be perfect with LCD I guess.



Quite dissapointed.

#1
Posted 05/22/2009 06:16 PM   
[quote name='Trek' post='544211' date='May 22 2009, 01:16 PM']Quite dissapointed.[/quote]

Yea it's the monitor's fault for any ghosting you might see. DLP users sing praise for it being superior to LCD for S3D.

But then you say you're disappointed... I have the bundle and and [u][b]blown away[/b][/u] every time I boot it up. Maybe you should try S3D DLP projector (very expensive) and you'll have your satisfaction. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
[quote name='Trek' post='544211' date='May 22 2009, 01:16 PM']Quite dissapointed.



Yea it's the monitor's fault for any ghosting you might see. DLP users sing praise for it being superior to LCD for S3D.



But then you say you're disappointed... I have the bundle and and blown away every time I boot it up. Maybe you should try S3D DLP projector (very expensive) and you'll have your satisfaction. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

1x Intel S5000Xvn Mainboard

2x Quad 2.66GHz Xeons (X5355, 8 Cores)

1x EVGA GTX480

8x 2GB FB-DIMM 667 (16GB)

2x 64GB Corsair M4 SSDs in RAID0 (System)

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#2
Posted 05/22/2009 06:24 PM   
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='544214' date='May 22 2009, 08:24 PM']But then you say you're disappointed... I have the bundle and and [u][b]blown away[/b][/u] every time I boot it up.[/quote]

Well nobody mentioned ghosting in reviews and marketing materials nor manual.
Not very respectable.

I would like to have in the manual some sentence that ghosting can be visible on less performant display units.
Without it you could think that it is defect and go to RMA it.
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='544214' date='May 22 2009, 08:24 PM']But then you say you're disappointed... I have the bundle and and blown away every time I boot it up.



Well nobody mentioned ghosting in reviews and marketing materials nor manual.

Not very respectable.



I would like to have in the manual some sentence that ghosting can be visible on less performant display units.

Without it you could think that it is defect and go to RMA it.

#3
Posted 05/22/2009 06:32 PM   
ghosting is something that varies very strongly between individuals, most dont have any problems with ghosting while some see it clearly...
ghosting is something that varies very strongly between individuals, most dont have any problems with ghosting while some see it clearly...

#4
Posted 05/22/2009 09:22 PM   
[quote name='Tikz' post='544254' date='May 22 2009, 11:22 PM']ghosting is something that varies very strongly between individuals, most dont have any problems with ghosting while some see it clearly...[/quote]

Yes it is very subjective, people using DLP do not see ghosting whereas people using LCD see it clearly.
On LCD it is not subjective it is awfully real.

Samsung 2233RZ is totaly unusable in some applications.

I will meditate about this and decide whether to return this for refund or not.
[quote name='Tikz' post='544254' date='May 22 2009, 11:22 PM']ghosting is something that varies very strongly between individuals, most dont have any problems with ghosting while some see it clearly...



Yes it is very subjective, people using DLP do not see ghosting whereas people using LCD see it clearly.

On LCD it is not subjective it is awfully real.



Samsung 2233RZ is totaly unusable in some applications.



I will meditate about this and decide whether to return this for refund or not.

#5
Posted 05/22/2009 09:24 PM   
Is it worse than this?:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOSRUBjIe4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOSRUBjIe4[/url]
(eDimensional shutterglasses + CRT 120Hz monitor)
Is it worse than this?:

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">

(eDimensional shutterglasses + CRT 120Hz monitor)

#6
Posted 05/23/2009 12:51 AM   
[quote name='Freke1' post='544292' date='May 23 2009, 02:51 AM']Is it worse than this?:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOSRUBjIe4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOSRUBjIe4[/url]
(eDimensional shutterglasses + CRT 120Hz monitor)[/quote]

It is cca the same level of ghosting as that video.

If you look directly in no angle in the Samsung it is slightly better (Samsung seems to be polarized). But still similar level of ghosting, total showstopper and gigantic epic fail.
[quote name='Freke1' post='544292' date='May 23 2009, 02:51 AM']Is it worse than this?:

" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">

(eDimensional shutterglasses + CRT 120Hz monitor)



It is cca the same level of ghosting as that video.



If you look directly in no angle in the Samsung it is slightly better (Samsung seems to be polarized). But still similar level of ghosting, total showstopper and gigantic epic fail.

#7
Posted 05/23/2009 12:54 AM   
[quote name='Trek' post='544255' date='May 22 2009, 04:24 PM']Samsung 2233RZ is totaly unusable in some applications.[/quote]

That is an exaggeration, if not a complete falsality. The technology works better than anything else available. If it's good enough to market towards medical industry in saving lives, it's good enough to play games on (in fact it's WAY overkill.)

I'm honestly still getting over how low the price is. And get this, IT JUST CAME OUT! If you don't like it, return it or get a DLP. The driver based S3D technology is virtually perfect, while the cheap LCDs are not.
[quote name='Trek' post='544255' date='May 22 2009, 04:24 PM']Samsung 2233RZ is totaly unusable in some applications.



That is an exaggeration, if not a complete falsality. The technology works better than anything else available. If it's good enough to market towards medical industry in saving lives, it's good enough to play games on (in fact it's WAY overkill.)



I'm honestly still getting over how low the price is. And get this, IT JUST CAME OUT! If you don't like it, return it or get a DLP. The driver based S3D technology is virtually perfect, while the cheap LCDs are not.

1x Intel S5000Xvn Mainboard

2x Quad 2.66GHz Xeons (X5355, 8 Cores)

1x EVGA GTX480

8x 2GB FB-DIMM 667 (16GB)

2x 64GB Corsair M4 SSDs in RAID0 (System)

4x 1TB SATA2 64MB Cache Western Digital Black's in RAID0 (Storage)

1x Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

1x BD-ROM

1x DVD-RW

1x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Power Supply

1x Dell 30" 2560x1600 LCD

1x Samsung 22" 120hz GeForce 3D Vision Display

1x APC 1500VAC SmartUPS Battery Backup

1x Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit

#8
Posted 05/23/2009 02:58 AM   
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='544311' date='May 23 2009, 04:58 AM']That is an exaggeration, if not a complete falsality. The technology works better than anything else available. If it's good enough to market towards medical industry in saving lives, it's good enough to play games on (in fact it's WAY overkill.)

I'm honestly still getting over how low the price is. And get this, IT JUST CAME OUT! If you don't like it, return it or get a DLP. The driver based S3D technology is virtually perfect, while the cheap LCDs are not.[/quote]

I hope you do not believe what you are writing here.
If you supress first wow effect there is only aftertaste of frustration left with this monitor.

Color scheme of all games I played is such that artifacts are distracting and anoying.
This unquality is not usable for work or research workers.

Monitors is overpriced, because you will not get what you paid, the price should go 100USD down.

Nvidia vision with Samsung 2233RZ is fraud. They should remove 3d ready sticker from this monitor.

This is something like you would say Nvidia is vista capable but we know that most of system crashes was caused by display drivers, it was good until nvidia released the latest drivers, it is again vista uncapable.

I know that people in US are positive and manufacturers can wipe their arses with you, but I am not, I will say the truth that hurts.
[quote name='SpyderCanopus' post='544311' date='May 23 2009, 04:58 AM']That is an exaggeration, if not a complete falsality. The technology works better than anything else available. If it's good enough to market towards medical industry in saving lives, it's good enough to play games on (in fact it's WAY overkill.)



I'm honestly still getting over how low the price is. And get this, IT JUST CAME OUT! If you don't like it, return it or get a DLP. The driver based S3D technology is virtually perfect, while the cheap LCDs are not.



I hope you do not believe what you are writing here.

If you supress first wow effect there is only aftertaste of frustration left with this monitor.



Color scheme of all games I played is such that artifacts are distracting and anoying.

This unquality is not usable for work or research workers.



Monitors is overpriced, because you will not get what you paid, the price should go 100USD down.



Nvidia vision with Samsung 2233RZ is fraud. They should remove 3d ready sticker from this monitor.



This is something like you would say Nvidia is vista capable but we know that most of system crashes was caused by display drivers, it was good until nvidia released the latest drivers, it is again vista uncapable.



I know that people in US are positive and manufacturers can wipe their arses with you, but I am not, I will say the truth that hurts.

#9
Posted 05/23/2009 11:45 AM   
[quote name='Trek' post='544397' date='May 23 2009, 03:45 AM']I hope you do not believe what you are writing here.
If you supress first wow effect there is only aftertaste of frustration left with this monitor.

Color scheme of all games I played is such that artifacts are distracting and anoying.
This unquality is not usable for work or research workers.

Monitors is overpriced, because you will not get what you paid, the price should go 100USD down.

Nvidia vision with Samsung 2233RZ is fraud. They should remove 3d ready sticker from this monitor.

This is something like you would say Nvidia is vista capable but we know that most of system crashes was caused by display drivers, it was good until nvidia released the latest drivers, it is again vista uncapable.

I know that people in US are positive and manufacturers can wipe their arses with you, but I am not, I will say the truth that hurts.[/quote]

Your version of the "truth" is misleading and full of propaganda, time for you to stop. We understand you don't like 3d Vision, but this slanted hatchet job serves no one.

You don't mention that the ghosting varies by game and even within games, and can be diminished with adjustment.\

The monitor being overpriced is your [i]opinion[/i] only, as there is only one other similar monitor at a similar price.

Research workers? I've never seen this monitor advertised as a production tool- it's marketed as a gaming monitor.

I've been using NVIDIA drivers with Vista since there's been Vista, your stating most system crashes are caused by display drivers is only illustrative of your ignorance of the way Vista reports errors.

The "truth" doesn't hurt, but lies and propaganda like yours will not be tolerated on this forum.
[quote name='Trek' post='544397' date='May 23 2009, 03:45 AM']I hope you do not believe what you are writing here.

If you supress first wow effect there is only aftertaste of frustration left with this monitor.



Color scheme of all games I played is such that artifacts are distracting and anoying.

This unquality is not usable for work or research workers.



Monitors is overpriced, because you will not get what you paid, the price should go 100USD down.



Nvidia vision with Samsung 2233RZ is fraud. They should remove 3d ready sticker from this monitor.



This is something like you would say Nvidia is vista capable but we know that most of system crashes was caused by display drivers, it was good until nvidia released the latest drivers, it is again vista uncapable.



I know that people in US are positive and manufacturers can wipe their arses with you, but I am not, I will say the truth that hurts.



Your version of the "truth" is misleading and full of propaganda, time for you to stop. We understand you don't like 3d Vision, but this slanted hatchet job serves no one.



You don't mention that the ghosting varies by game and even within games, and can be diminished with adjustment.\



The monitor being overpriced is your opinion only, as there is only one other similar monitor at a similar price.



Research workers? I've never seen this monitor advertised as a production tool- it's marketed as a gaming monitor.



I've been using NVIDIA drivers with Vista since there's been Vista, your stating most system crashes are caused by display drivers is only illustrative of your ignorance of the way Vista reports errors.



The "truth" doesn't hurt, but lies and propaganda like yours will not be tolerated on this forum.

GTX680 SLI

Asus Rampage/intel 990X

3 X Acer GD235Hz



NVIDIA FOCUS GROUP

Not employed by NVIDIA, nor do my views represent NVIDIA's in any way.

#10
Posted 05/23/2009 02:52 PM   
[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']We understand you don't like 3d Vision.[/quote]
I did not say I do not like 3D vision, I like 3D vision. I do not like Samsung monitor that is not capable to deliver proper performance.

And I do not like Nvidia advertised this bundle as 3D vision, because it is not capable to deliver proper experience.
I see that Nvidia glasses are good, Nvidia delivered its part of equation.

[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']You don't mention that the ghosting varies by game and even within games, and can be diminished with adjustment.\[/quote]
No it is always present because Nvidia decided to supress all monitor settings during stereo display. So it is not adjustable.

[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']Research workers? I've never seen this monitor advertised as a production tool- it's marketed as a gaming monitor.[/quote]
They are using just 3d applications, there is no difference whether game or other 3d application.

[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']I've been using NVIDIA drivers with Vista since there's been Vista, your stating most system crashes are caused by display drivers is only illustrative of your ignorance of the way Vista reports errors.[/quote]
And why then Microsoft sued Nvidia? Why problem reporting site receives in most of cases nvidia driver crahes? Read Microsoft site. I have various Nvidia graphics cards and I know what hanged and crashed my system oftenly. I read a lot about that and you can not deny this fact.

I admin that Nvida 3D vision is perfect with DLP technology, but not this Samsung monitor. This is intolerable to sell product which has significant display problems.

I do not see here any propaganda. Provide me settings that will extinguish ghosting, please.
For start, I play Mass effect, Spore, Lost, Dead Space, Colin Dirt, Crysis games. Provide me settings please that I do not have there distracting and annoying ghosting. Please.
[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']We understand you don't like 3d Vision.

I did not say I do not like 3D vision, I like 3D vision. I do not like Samsung monitor that is not capable to deliver proper performance.



And I do not like Nvidia advertised this bundle as 3D vision, because it is not capable to deliver proper experience.

I see that Nvidia glasses are good, Nvidia delivered its part of equation.



[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']You don't mention that the ghosting varies by game and even within games, and can be diminished with adjustment.\

No it is always present because Nvidia decided to supress all monitor settings during stereo display. So it is not adjustable.



[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']Research workers? I've never seen this monitor advertised as a production tool- it's marketed as a gaming monitor.

They are using just 3d applications, there is no difference whether game or other 3d application.



[quote name='Brian_S' post='544438' date='May 23 2009, 04:52 PM']I've been using NVIDIA drivers with Vista since there's been Vista, your stating most system crashes are caused by display drivers is only illustrative of your ignorance of the way Vista reports errors.

And why then Microsoft sued Nvidia? Why problem reporting site receives in most of cases nvidia driver crahes? Read Microsoft site. I have various Nvidia graphics cards and I know what hanged and crashed my system oftenly. I read a lot about that and you can not deny this fact.



I admin that Nvida 3D vision is perfect with DLP technology, but not this Samsung monitor. This is intolerable to sell product which has significant display problems.



I do not see here any propaganda. Provide me settings that will extinguish ghosting, please.

For start, I play Mass effect, Spore, Lost, Dead Space, Colin Dirt, Crysis games. Provide me settings please that I do not have there distracting and annoying ghosting. Please.

#11
Posted 05/23/2009 03:32 PM   
This whole conversation is silly, IMO.

So there's some ghosting in stereoscopic mode -- big whoop. Is this supposed to be news??

It's just like watching TV -- even with a high quality HiDef television, the picture is not as clear as reality, it's still a technological reproduction and is bound by technological constraints. It's the same with 3d Vision, or any stereoscopic technology. It's imperfect, if you expected to put on the glasses and have your monitor magically transform into a hologram you have unrealistic expectations.

At the end of the day, 3d Vision is the cutting edge of technology right now and those of us who understand that and have realistic expectations of what it does IMO are satisfied with it.


The blinking..... well, that's another story. But I'm hoping it will be addressed in driver/hardware updates in the future.
This whole conversation is silly, IMO.



So there's some ghosting in stereoscopic mode -- big whoop. Is this supposed to be news??



It's just like watching TV -- even with a high quality HiDef television, the picture is not as clear as reality, it's still a technological reproduction and is bound by technological constraints. It's the same with 3d Vision, or any stereoscopic technology. It's imperfect, if you expected to put on the glasses and have your monitor magically transform into a hologram you have unrealistic expectations.



At the end of the day, 3d Vision is the cutting edge of technology right now and those of us who understand that and have realistic expectations of what it does IMO are satisfied with it.





The blinking..... well, that's another story. But I'm hoping it will be addressed in driver/hardware updates in the future.

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#12
Posted 05/23/2009 05:45 PM   
Lol it is silly. For one you might be one of the few in this world that has a hard time seeing 3D. I have posted a little about this.. like having 2 friends that one no matter what always sees ghosting. Where as me and the other lol cant figure out why he to this day sees ghosting everywhere. To expect NO ghosting lol there will always be ghosting. Its like crying because someone sees blacklight bleeding on the monitor. most could care less yet I expect none. Thus there in is the peoblem.. "expect"
Lol it is silly. For one you might be one of the few in this world that has a hard time seeing 3D. I have posted a little about this.. like having 2 friends that one no matter what always sees ghosting. Where as me and the other lol cant figure out why he to this day sees ghosting everywhere. To expect NO ghosting lol there will always be ghosting. Its like crying because someone sees blacklight bleeding on the monitor. most could care less yet I expect none. Thus there in is the peoblem.. "expect"

#13
Posted 05/23/2009 06:07 PM   
These type of views get old and tiresome -- personally understood there may be some minimal ghosting with tweaking and some noticeable ghosting on top of the screen but when placed in an over-all context - - the experience is amazing and great to see 3d stereo back in the fore-front from a powerful IHV.
These type of views get old and tiresome -- personally understood there may be some minimal ghosting with tweaking and some noticeable ghosting on top of the screen but when placed in an over-all context - - the experience is amazing and great to see 3d stereo back in the fore-front from a powerful IHV.

#14
Posted 05/23/2009 07:53 PM   
I already RMAed once because of monitor went off, the thing is the same as it was.

You people are nicely processed, you are tolerant to unaceptable manfucaturers behaviour so they deliver whatever they want to.
Tell that to people that bought this stuff in good will and obtained crap, because they did not expected such a flawed monitor with poor performance. This is not nvidia vision, nvidia vision is something else. Samsung screwed it up.
I already RMAed once because of monitor went off, the thing is the same as it was.



You people are nicely processed, you are tolerant to unaceptable manfucaturers behaviour so they deliver whatever they want to.

Tell that to people that bought this stuff in good will and obtained crap, because they did not expected such a flawed monitor with poor performance. This is not nvidia vision, nvidia vision is something else. Samsung screwed it up.

#15
Posted 05/23/2009 07:55 PM   
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