Best fidelity method for 1080P projector? (720P EDID override, 1080P TAB, etc)
Originally this thread was titled "3DVision work when passing through a stereo receiver to projector? Also best fidelity method for 1080P?" but since I figured out the first part I changed the title for my remaining inquiry. [s]Recently done a rearrangement of my apartment to allow myself to start making use of my projector again. Previously my computer desk and projector screen shared the same wall. Now that I've moved my desk, and my computer speakers along with it, I wanted to finally set up my surround sound speakers for use with my projector. I figured the easiest way would be to go HDMI from GPU into stereo receiver, and then pass through HDMI to my projector, but I wasn't sure if that would mess with the timing or handshake at all needed for frame sequential. Anyone gone down this road already mind chiming in to let me know before I find out the hard way?[/s] [i]Edit: Found out the hard way. Geforce driver picks up the receiver, not the projector as the display device. Could not get it to recognize the Acer 5360 EDID override, but could accept the EDID of the projector itself, and recognized as a 3DPlay device. Unfortunately my receiver cannot handle frame packed 3DPlay signal, but was able to get TAB working through HDMI Checkerboard option via driver and 3DMigoto CustomShader3DVision2SBS. So at least that is an option if I find is better than connecting my projector directly to my GPU so I can use the EDID override and using the optical out for surround sound. I still would love people's opinions on my 2nd question below.[/i] Also, what's the going consensus on the best fidelity for 3DVision on a 1080P projector with HDMI 1.4 limitation? The options that I know of being: -Use EDID of 720P certified projector, create custom resolution of 1080P or 1440P downscaled to 720P (which then gets upscaled to 1080P, which is fairly undesirable) -Use 3DMigoto's TAB option at 1080P -I remember someone creating a custom resolution that wasn't quite 1080P, but at least it kept each pixel being displayed without being rescaled. Kinda kicking myself for having "upgraded" a while back from an Optoma HD65 to my current projector, since that was native 720P and had perfect 4x DSR scaling to 1440P. At least this new projector is brighter and is great for movies. Anyways, appreciate any answers provided.
Originally this thread was titled "3DVision work when passing through a stereo receiver to projector? Also best fidelity method for 1080P?" but since I figured out the first part I changed the title for my remaining inquiry.

Recently done a rearrangement of my apartment to allow myself to start making use of my projector again. Previously my computer desk and projector screen shared the same wall. Now that I've moved my desk, and my computer speakers along with it, I wanted to finally set up my surround sound speakers for use with my projector. I figured the easiest way would be to go HDMI from GPU into stereo receiver, and then pass through HDMI to my projector, but I wasn't sure if that would mess with the timing or handshake at all needed for frame sequential. Anyone gone down this road already mind chiming in to let me know before I find out the hard way?

Edit: Found out the hard way. Geforce driver picks up the receiver, not the projector as the display device. Could not get it to recognize the Acer 5360 EDID override, but could accept the EDID of the projector itself, and recognized as a 3DPlay device. Unfortunately my receiver cannot handle frame packed 3DPlay signal, but was able to get TAB working through HDMI Checkerboard option via driver and 3DMigoto CustomShader3DVision2SBS. So at least that is an option if I find is better than connecting my projector directly to my GPU so I can use the EDID override and using the optical out for surround sound. I still would love people's opinions on my 2nd question below.


Also, what's the going consensus on the best fidelity for 3DVision on a 1080P projector with HDMI 1.4 limitation? The options that I know of being:
-Use EDID of 720P certified projector, create custom resolution of 1080P or 1440P downscaled to 720P (which then gets upscaled to 1080P, which is fairly undesirable)
-Use 3DMigoto's TAB option at 1080P
-I remember someone creating a custom resolution that wasn't quite 1080P, but at least it kept each pixel being displayed without being rescaled.

Kinda kicking myself for having "upgraded" a while back from an Optoma HD65 to my current projector, since that was native 720P and had perfect 4x DSR scaling to 1440P. At least this new projector is brighter and is great for movies. Anyways, appreciate any answers provided.

3D Gaming Rig: CPU: i7 7700K @ 4.9Ghz | Mobo: Asus Maximus Hero VIII | RAM: Corsair Dominator 16GB | GPU: 2 x GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 3xSSDs for OS and Apps, 2 x HDD's for 11GB storage | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 M2| Case: Corsair C70 | Cooling: Corsair H115i Hydro cooler | Displays: Asus PG278QR, BenQ XL2420TX & BenQ HT1075 | OS: Windows 10 Pro + Windows 7 dual boot

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#1
Posted 08/01/2018 12:18 AM   
Hi. Dj-RK I have always found my self using dual connection from the pc anyways. Hdmi to amp and display port to ”display device” . Usually because the audio and video just doesnt fit a single hdmi. Though times may have changed with hdmi 2.0 maby. Can’t comment on the video side as have not used 3d vision with active 3d projectors but only few times testing.
Hi. Dj-RK

I have always found my self using dual connection from the pc anyways. Hdmi to amp and display port to ”display device” . Usually because the audio and video just doesnt fit a single hdmi. Though times may have changed with hdmi 2.0 maby.

Can’t comment on the video side as have not used 3d vision with active 3d projectors but only few times testing.

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#2
Posted 08/01/2018 03:55 AM   
Perhaps you will find something interesting here. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/post/5114491/#5114491[/url] To get rid of the red test saying unsupported display you need to first install the Sony INF edid and after that you install the custom CRU (bin) profile
Perhaps you will find something interesting here.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/post/5114491/#5114491


To get rid of the red test saying unsupported display you need to first install the Sony INF edid and after that you install the custom CRU (bin) profile

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#3
Posted 08/01/2018 04:27 AM   
Hi DJ-RK, You have probably considered this but you also have the option of buying the new 4k projectors which are reported to do 120Hz @ 1080p, IIRC natively. Of course, as yet, the tech is $$$, and has not quite matured. Some insightful posts here and AVS forums, which I'm sure you have already perused :)
Hi DJ-RK,

You have probably considered this but you also have the option of buying the new 4k projectors which are reported to do 120Hz @ 1080p, IIRC natively. Of course, as yet, the tech is $$$, and has not quite matured. Some insightful posts here and AVS forums, which I'm sure you have already perused :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#4
Posted 08/01/2018 10:15 AM   
[quote="joker18"]Perhaps you will find something interesting here. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/post/5114491/#5114491[/url] To get rid of the red test saying unsupported display you need to first install the Sony INF edid and after that you install the custom CRU (bin) profile[/quote] Thanks for that link. That's exactly the thread I was thinking of with regards to my 3rd method mentioned. Will definitely check out your settings at 1920 x 750, since that's along the same lines of my former efforts to get a working 1600x900 custom resolution. Might convince me to get an even bigger screen (mine is "only" 92") since I'll be losing some vertical real estate, might see if blowing up the image across a larger screen looks just as well. Can't look worse than 720P image blown up on a projector (which isn't too horrible in itself) ;) [quote="RAGEdemon"]Hi DJ-RK, You have probably considered this but you also have the option of buying the new 4k projectors which are reported to do 120Hz @ 1080p, IIRC natively. Of course, as yet, the tech is $$$, and has not quite matured. Some insightful posts here and AVS forums, which I'm sure you have already perused :) [/quote] Yeah, I've seen that, and absolutely wish I had $$$ to burn for one of those. Unfortunately quite the opposite, years of extravagant purchases have caught up to me, and it's time to start hunkering down and paying off some bills and start saving, so in the meantime I'm looking to make the best out of what I've got. Hopefully by the time I can afford to buy a new toy one of those might be more within my pricerange. On that note (and not to bring up old arguments), in joker's thread you had mentioned about using 3840x2160 resolution as a DSR/downscaling sweet spot for a 1080P projector, being a common integer factor for 720P (3x) and 1080P (2x). I'm a bit skeptical of it because the way I understand it is that the benefit that 4K is a common integer is lost because the downscaling is being done by the GPU, and upscaling done by the projector are separate processes, and ultimately it's still coming down to 720P active pixels being upscaled to 1080P at a 1 : 1.5 factor by the projector. Do you still hold the belief otherwise that somehow 4K being downscaled to 720P will have the best fidelity when going this route? I'm always willing to try something out for myself rather than go entirely based on theory, so I'll probably give it a shot. Problem being that I could never get a 4K custom resolution working for 720P active pixels, and DSR by default only allows a maximum of 4x increase, but I think someone (I'm thinking either yourself, masterotaku, or maybe D-Man11) posted a link on how to get even higher values available. Any insight on this?
joker18 said:Perhaps you will find something interesting here.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/post/5114491/#5114491


To get rid of the red test saying unsupported display you need to first install the Sony INF edid and after that you install the custom CRU (bin) profile


Thanks for that link. That's exactly the thread I was thinking of with regards to my 3rd method mentioned. Will definitely check out your settings at 1920 x 750, since that's along the same lines of my former efforts to get a working 1600x900 custom resolution. Might convince me to get an even bigger screen (mine is "only" 92") since I'll be losing some vertical real estate, might see if blowing up the image across a larger screen looks just as well. Can't look worse than 720P image blown up on a projector (which isn't too horrible in itself) ;)


RAGEdemon said:Hi DJ-RK,

You have probably considered this but you also have the option of buying the new 4k projectors which are reported to do 120Hz @ 1080p, IIRC natively. Of course, as yet, the tech is $$$, and has not quite matured. Some insightful posts here and AVS forums, which I'm sure you have already perused :)


Yeah, I've seen that, and absolutely wish I had $$$ to burn for one of those. Unfortunately quite the opposite, years of extravagant purchases have caught up to me, and it's time to start hunkering down and paying off some bills and start saving, so in the meantime I'm looking to make the best out of what I've got. Hopefully by the time I can afford to buy a new toy one of those might be more within my pricerange.

On that note (and not to bring up old arguments), in joker's thread you had mentioned about using 3840x2160 resolution as a DSR/downscaling sweet spot for a 1080P projector, being a common integer factor for 720P (3x) and 1080P (2x). I'm a bit skeptical of it because the way I understand it is that the benefit that 4K is a common integer is lost because the downscaling is being done by the GPU, and upscaling done by the projector are separate processes, and ultimately it's still coming down to 720P active pixels being upscaled to 1080P at a 1 : 1.5 factor by the projector. Do you still hold the belief otherwise that somehow 4K being downscaled to 720P will have the best fidelity when going this route? I'm always willing to try something out for myself rather than go entirely based on theory, so I'll probably give it a shot. Problem being that I could never get a 4K custom resolution working for 720P active pixels, and DSR by default only allows a maximum of 4x increase, but I think someone (I'm thinking either yourself, masterotaku, or maybe D-Man11) posted a link on how to get even higher values available. Any insight on this?

3D Gaming Rig: CPU: i7 7700K @ 4.9Ghz | Mobo: Asus Maximus Hero VIII | RAM: Corsair Dominator 16GB | GPU: 2 x GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 3xSSDs for OS and Apps, 2 x HDD's for 11GB storage | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 M2| Case: Corsair C70 | Cooling: Corsair H115i Hydro cooler | Displays: Asus PG278QR, BenQ XL2420TX & BenQ HT1075 | OS: Windows 10 Pro + Windows 7 dual boot

Like my fixes? Dontations can be made to: www.paypal.me/DShanz or rshannonca@gmail.com
Like electronic music? Check out: www.soundcloud.com/dj-ryan-king

#5
Posted 08/01/2018 08:15 PM   
Firstly, let me apologise if it seems like I have been involved in arguments. I am not at all a fan of those, as they quickly devolve into name-calling and lost love. We simply can't afford that in our tiny community, and it's certainly not a cool thing to do. I'd like to think of these as debates, which might get heated at times, but all parties come off the better as having learned something new. I am always happy to be proven wrong; over the years, I have become a begrudging believer in [url]https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law[/url] If things get heated, I would just rather withdraw even if I know I am presenting the correct information. As with everyone, I have often been wrong, but try to better myself via learning. Your understanding is absolutely correct, and I would likely have been wrong for stating the above in your post. Do you have a link to where I might have said the above? Perhaps I might have meant something else in a different context, but I also see where I might have been confused - I don't have a 1080p projector so maybe I suggested to try it rather than a firm assertion that it would work? What I do remember saying is that playing on a resolution of 1920 x 1080 / 2 = 960 x 540 might yield better results in scenarios than playing at 1280 x 720 because the pixel ratio is 2:1 rather than 1.5:1. This is already equivalent to a DSR factor of 4x for the resolution of 960 x 540. What this would mean is that since we can't do 1080p 3DV natively: You might be able to hack your projector (maybe using CRU) into thinking it was a native 960 x 540 projector, and then 4x DSR (and 0% smoothness) that to 1920 x 1080 so that the upscaling to 1080p gets done on the GPU. That ought to produce perfect pixel scaled results. I can't say if that would be better or worse than 720p upscaled to 1080p as it normally stands... perhaps the former might be more detailed, but the latter will be smoother...
Firstly, let me apologise if it seems like I have been involved in arguments. I am not at all a fan of those, as they quickly devolve into name-calling and lost love. We simply can't afford that in our tiny community, and it's certainly not a cool thing to do. I'd like to think of these as debates, which might get heated at times, but all parties come off the better as having learned something new.

I am always happy to be proven wrong; over the years, I have become a begrudging believer in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law

If things get heated, I would just rather withdraw even if I know I am presenting the correct information. As with everyone, I have often been wrong, but try to better myself via learning.

Your understanding is absolutely correct, and I would likely have been wrong for stating the above in your post. Do you have a link to where I might have said the above? Perhaps I might have meant something else in a different context, but I also see where I might have been confused - I don't have a 1080p projector so maybe I suggested to try it rather than a firm assertion that it would work?

What I do remember saying is that playing on a resolution of 1920 x 1080 / 2 = 960 x 540 might yield better results in scenarios than playing at 1280 x 720 because the pixel ratio is 2:1 rather than 1.5:1.

This is already equivalent to a DSR factor of 4x for the resolution of 960 x 540.

What this would mean is that since we can't do 1080p 3DV natively:

You might be able to hack your projector (maybe using CRU) into thinking it was a native 960 x 540 projector, and then 4x DSR (and 0% smoothness) that to 1920 x 1080 so that the upscaling to 1080p gets done on the GPU. That ought to produce perfect pixel scaled results.

I can't say if that would be better or worse than 720p upscaled to 1080p as it normally stands... perhaps the former might be more detailed, but the latter will be smoother...

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#6
Posted 08/01/2018 11:00 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Do you have a link to where I might have said the above?[/quote] [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/post/5022322/#5022322[/url] At least that was my interpretation of your comments, I may have been misconstrued in my hopefulness to find the best happy medium. I do also recall you mentioning 960 x 540 before, and I believe at one point I even tried it, but fairly certain I was not impressed with the result. In any event, I've always appreciated everyone's technical analysis on here, and having such debates is key to finding the best results. It's always a challenge, though, because the tone of our communication gets lost and is open to wild interpretation by the recipient, which may lead to ugliness. I tend to run into that problem whenever I communicate with my girlfriend through instant messaging a lot, lol. Anyways, thanks again to you and joker for your input here, I'll try toying around some once I finally get my rewiring done for my projector in my new apartment configuration. I suppose I can simply accept the fact that playing on my projector will be for enjoying things on a larger scale, while playing on my PG278QR will be for when I want the highest fidelity.
RAGEdemon said:Do you have a link to where I might have said the above?


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/977491/3d-vision/edid-mod-full-hd-3d-image-quality-on-projector-/post/5022322/#5022322

At least that was my interpretation of your comments, I may have been misconstrued in my hopefulness to find the best happy medium.

I do also recall you mentioning 960 x 540 before, and I believe at one point I even tried it, but fairly certain I was not impressed with the result.

In any event, I've always appreciated everyone's technical analysis on here, and having such debates is key to finding the best results. It's always a challenge, though, because the tone of our communication gets lost and is open to wild interpretation by the recipient, which may lead to ugliness. I tend to run into that problem whenever I communicate with my girlfriend through instant messaging a lot, lol.

Anyways, thanks again to you and joker for your input here, I'll try toying around some once I finally get my rewiring done for my projector in my new apartment configuration. I suppose I can simply accept the fact that playing on my projector will be for enjoying things on a larger scale, while playing on my PG278QR will be for when I want the highest fidelity.

3D Gaming Rig: CPU: i7 7700K @ 4.9Ghz | Mobo: Asus Maximus Hero VIII | RAM: Corsair Dominator 16GB | GPU: 2 x GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 3xSSDs for OS and Apps, 2 x HDD's for 11GB storage | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 M2| Case: Corsair C70 | Cooling: Corsair H115i Hydro cooler | Displays: Asus PG278QR, BenQ XL2420TX & BenQ HT1075 | OS: Windows 10 Pro + Windows 7 dual boot

Like my fixes? Dontations can be made to: www.paypal.me/DShanz or rshannonca@gmail.com
Like electronic music? Check out: www.soundcloud.com/dj-ryan-king

#7
Posted 08/02/2018 12:53 AM   
Well done DJ-RK, that post of mine is indeed conveying the wrong information in the part regarding scaling from 720p to 1080p - no matter what the DSR resolution, the projector scaling will always be sub-par because of its 1:1.5 scaling!
Well done DJ-RK, that post of mine is indeed conveying the wrong information in the part regarding scaling from 720p to 1080p - no matter what the DSR resolution, the projector scaling will always be sub-par because of its 1:1.5 scaling!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#8
Posted 08/02/2018 01:23 AM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Well done DJ-RK[/quote] I certainly take no pleasure in that. On the contrary, again, I was hoping that there was the possibility that it might have been true, that perhaps the upscaling might have been occurring on the GPU side, and therefore somehow working out. In fact, I believe that was the basis of me purchasing a 1080P projector (and selling my 720P) thinking that DSR downscaling must be providing more data per pixel, which a 1080P projector would be able to pick up during the reup-conversion. Anyways, again, best thing now will be to get it up and running and to see with my own eyes what works best.
RAGEdemon said:Well done DJ-RK


I certainly take no pleasure in that. On the contrary, again, I was hoping that there was the possibility that it might have been true, that perhaps the upscaling might have been occurring on the GPU side, and therefore somehow working out. In fact, I believe that was the basis of me purchasing a 1080P projector (and selling my 720P) thinking that DSR downscaling must be providing more data per pixel, which a 1080P projector would be able to pick up during the reup-conversion.

Anyways, again, best thing now will be to get it up and running and to see with my own eyes what works best.

3D Gaming Rig: CPU: i7 7700K @ 4.9Ghz | Mobo: Asus Maximus Hero VIII | RAM: Corsair Dominator 16GB | GPU: 2 x GTX 1080 Ti SLI | 3xSSDs for OS and Apps, 2 x HDD's for 11GB storage | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 M2| Case: Corsair C70 | Cooling: Corsair H115i Hydro cooler | Displays: Asus PG278QR, BenQ XL2420TX & BenQ HT1075 | OS: Windows 10 Pro + Windows 7 dual boot

Like my fixes? Dontations can be made to: www.paypal.me/DShanz or rshannonca@gmail.com
Like electronic music? Check out: www.soundcloud.com/dj-ryan-king

#9
Posted 08/02/2018 02:26 AM   
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