Let's try another way to improve 3D Vision?
  2 / 2    
Hm... and again we recognize that the community is getting smaller every day since talented people dropped out. I made my peace with a mixed gaming habit. Playing a game in 3D is of course the masterpiece, if not possible I just enjoy the game in CM, if this is not possible 2D - without complaining to myself too much ;-) - and of course I enjoy more and more VR games, since they give us the fully immersive experience. Actually I still have a fanstatic huge back log of some awesome 3D games in my library :D
Hm... and again we recognize that the community is getting smaller every day since talented people dropped out. I made my peace with a mixed gaming habit. Playing a game in 3D is of course the masterpiece, if not possible I just enjoy the game in CM, if this is not possible 2D - without complaining to myself too much ;-) - and of course I enjoy more and more VR games, since they give us the fully immersive experience. Actually I still have a fanstatic huge back log of some awesome 3D games in my library :D

Intel Core i7-3820, 4 X 3,60 GHz overclocked to 4,50 GHz ; EVGA Titan X 12VRAM ; 16 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-1600 (4x 4 GB) ; Asus VG278H 27-inch incl. 3D vision 2 glasses, integrated transmitter ; Xbox One Elite wireless controller ; Windows 10HTC VIVE 2,5 m2 roomscale3D VISION GAMERS - VISIT ME ON STEAM and feel free to add me: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198064106555 YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UE5TPoF0HX0HVpF_E4uPQ STEAM CURATOR: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/33611530-Streaming-Deluxe/ Image

#16
Posted 06/14/2017 06:34 PM   
[quote="Rhialto"]I've sent an email to Mr. Huang with a link to this thread, hopefully he will have a look.[/quote] OK, why not but this topic was a tentative to make it clear for a CEO who don't have the time to read forum of users complaint. I doubt it will be very useful but who know. Lot's of talk here, i will come back in the night to look and answer all. And start to work about the idea of this topic, the core message to bring attention about the main things. See you in a couple of hours.
Rhialto said:I've sent an email to Mr. Huang with a link to this thread, hopefully he will have a look.


OK, why not but this topic was a tentative to make it clear for a CEO who don't have the time to read forum of users complaint.

I doubt it will be very useful but who know.

Lot's of talk here, i will come back in the night to look and answer all.

And start to work about the idea of this topic, the core message to bring attention about the main things.

See you in a couple of hours.

#17
Posted 06/14/2017 07:11 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Anyone remember SteveK popping into the forum from nowhere with...... https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/679547/official-334-67-driver-thread-for-new-3d-vision-game-support-feedback/ [quote="SteveK@NVIDIA"]NVIDIA continues to focus on 3D and remains dedicated to improving its 3D Vision technology. Towards that end, we have some great news to share with the 3D Vision user community. Today’s [b]beta release[/b] of the R334 driver adds new 3D Vision profile support—as well as improves existing support—for several key PC titles that our users have been asking for. The list of changes is as follows: 1. Battlefield 4 – previously not supported, now rated as “Good” 2. Assassin’s Creed IV Black Flag - rating changed from “Good” to “Excellent” 3. Saints Row 4 - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Good” 4. Bioshock Infinite - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Excellent” 5. Assassin’s Creed III - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Excellent” 6. Sniper Elite V2 - rating changed from “Good” to “Excellent” 7. Hitman: Absolution - rating changed from “Fair” to “Excellent” 8. Need For Speed: Most Wanted - rating changed from “Fair” to “Good” 9. Far Cry 3 - rating changed from “Fair” to “Good” 10. Total War: Shogun 2 - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Good” 11. Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell: Blacklist - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Good” 12. Warframe - laser sight now renders correctly and shadows may be turned on Note: Games must be run in DX10 or DX11 mode and 3D Vision Surround is not supported. Please try the games out and let us know your feedback in this thread. Driver may be found here: Here’s the link: http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/72572/en-us Thanks. [/quote] Keywords = [color="orange"]NVIDIA continues to focus on 3D and remains dedicated to improving its 3D Vision technology.[/color] Then he started answering questions and hinting at better things to come, everyone got excited thinking that we had a new voice for 3D Vision that was replacing Andrew Fear. <snip> The above quotes are discussing Compatibility mode, to see them in their exact context, read the thread linked above. The thing is, we were suddenly having a back and forth discussion with Nvidia, it seemed like the clouds had parted and the sun was shining and then.........he simply disappeared I'm thankful to have Compatibility Mode added and that they listened to the community and allowed a toggle so that it could be turned off. But I'll never understand the lack of support for more stereoscopic formats, resolutions and refresh rates for all types of displays.[/quote] I spoke with Steve after this forum conversation, and he stopped coming to the forum because he got tired of being flamed. There is only so much that the remaining people can do, because 3D Vision is not big enough for them to put serious money into. They keep it alive because of the community fixes and the potential for future value in VR realm. It's a sunk engineering cost, so there is no point in killing it, but there is also no point in adding a lot of engineering. The 24Hz/HDMI problem is probably the biggest lame part today. Unfortunately I really don't see them changing anything there because of the peril of driver changes. To get it right would require a *lot* of testing/QA, and they are not likely to spend that money. Realistically, I think the only thing we can expect is that they continue to fix serious bugs and respond to our bug reports. I'm personally OK with that, because I understand the business drives the decision. As long as the driver lives, we have something to work with.
D-Man11 said:Anyone remember SteveK popping into the forum from nowhere with......

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/679547/official-334-67-driver-thread-for-new-3d-vision-game-support-feedback/


SteveK@NVIDIA said:NVIDIA continues to focus on 3D and remains dedicated to improving its 3D Vision technology. Towards that end, we have some great news to share with the 3D Vision user community. Today’s beta release of the R334 driver adds new 3D Vision profile support—as well as improves existing support—for several key PC titles that our users have been asking for. The list of changes is as follows:
1. Battlefield 4 – previously not supported, now rated as “Good”
2. Assassin’s Creed IV Black Flag - rating changed from “Good” to “Excellent”
3. Saints Row 4 - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Good”
4. Bioshock Infinite - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Excellent”
5. Assassin’s Creed III - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Excellent”
6. Sniper Elite V2 - rating changed from “Good” to “Excellent”
7. Hitman: Absolution - rating changed from “Fair” to “Excellent”
8. Need For Speed: Most Wanted - rating changed from “Fair” to “Good”
9. Far Cry 3 - rating changed from “Fair” to “Good”
10. Total War: Shogun 2 - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Good”
11. Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell: Blacklist - rating changed from “Not Recommended” to “Good”
12. Warframe - laser sight now renders correctly and shadows may be turned on

Note: Games must be run in DX10 or DX11 mode and 3D Vision Surround is not supported.

Please try the games out and let us know your feedback in this thread.

Driver may be found here: Here’s the link: http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/72572/en-us



Thanks.



Keywords = NVIDIA continues to focus on 3D and remains dedicated to improving its 3D Vision technology.


Then he started answering questions and hinting at better things to come, everyone got excited thinking that we had a new voice for 3D Vision that was replacing Andrew Fear.

<snip>

The above quotes are discussing Compatibility mode, to see them in their exact context, read the thread linked above. The thing is, we were suddenly having a back and forth discussion with Nvidia, it seemed like the clouds had parted and the sun was shining

and then.........he simply disappeared

I'm thankful to have Compatibility Mode added and that they listened to the community and allowed a toggle so that it could be turned off. But I'll never understand the lack of support for more stereoscopic formats, resolutions and refresh rates for all types of displays.

I spoke with Steve after this forum conversation, and he stopped coming to the forum because he got tired of being flamed.

There is only so much that the remaining people can do, because 3D Vision is not big enough for them to put serious money into. They keep it alive because of the community fixes and the potential for future value in VR realm. It's a sunk engineering cost, so there is no point in killing it, but there is also no point in adding a lot of engineering.

The 24Hz/HDMI problem is probably the biggest lame part today. Unfortunately I really don't see them changing anything there because of the peril of driver changes. To get it right would require a *lot* of testing/QA, and they are not likely to spend that money.

Realistically, I think the only thing we can expect is that they continue to fix serious bugs and respond to our bug reports. I'm personally OK with that, because I understand the business drives the decision. As long as the driver lives, we have something to work with.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#18
Posted 06/14/2017 08:56 PM   
@bo3b: AMEN TO THAT! @all: 3D Vision is not dead, but is not a STRONG business case to invest a lot of money into it currently! The only smart thing to do, would be to somehow "convert" all this into into VR. But, VR has other "limitations and problems"... 3D Vision feels currently a bit like an orphan. Until the VR thingy fades, or is consolidated into main-stream, Geometry Stereo 3D on a flat screen is a bit on the "backlog". It will comeback in the future when they will hopefully partner with LCD manufacturers and provide GLASSES-FREE 3D:) But, I am still amazed and grateful, they still support it to this date, with drivers and fixes! (Remember it was first presented and released in 2009! That is 8 years AGO.. soon 9! This clearly shows that they love this community and maintain it for our sake!) The 24Hz limitation comes from the older HDMI spec! Sure, the new spec doesn't have this limit, but that requires people working on it.. and I am not sure the potential customers would justify the engineering time! After all, 3D Vision WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE USED WITH 3D-TVs. They added this LATER! IT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE USED WITH 3D VISION READY LCD PC MONITORS :) They added it for US ofc :) (Sorry for the caps, but it needed a HIGHLIGHT:) )
@bo3b:
AMEN TO THAT!

@all:
3D Vision is not dead, but is not a STRONG business case to invest a lot of money into it currently!
The only smart thing to do, would be to somehow "convert" all this into into VR.

But, VR has other "limitations and problems"... 3D Vision feels currently a bit like an orphan.
Until the VR thingy fades, or is consolidated into main-stream, Geometry Stereo 3D on a flat screen is a bit on the "backlog". It will comeback in the future when they will hopefully partner with LCD manufacturers and provide GLASSES-FREE 3D:)

But, I am still amazed and grateful, they still support it to this date, with drivers and fixes! (Remember it was first presented and released in 2009! That is 8 years AGO.. soon 9! This clearly shows that they love this community and maintain it for our sake!)

The 24Hz limitation comes from the older HDMI spec! Sure, the new spec doesn't have this limit, but that requires people working on it.. and I am not sure the potential customers would justify the engineering time!

After all, 3D Vision WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE USED WITH 3D-TVs. They added this LATER! IT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE USED WITH 3D VISION READY LCD PC MONITORS :) They added it for US ofc :)
(Sorry for the caps, but it needed a HIGHLIGHT:) )

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

#19
Posted 06/14/2017 10:09 PM   
I'm totally with you about the fact that it's a good strategic business decision to no more be intersted of this marginal thing 3D Vision is. Just check the audience of Helixmod fixes, i supposed it was really bigger but finally it's little number so in term of business not so much value and interest. I totally understand that they are tired of looking this forum, because look at my idea of topic, it was based on the idea of proposition and so much people came shout / cry about this or that, with lot of passion but only little constructive arguments to help move the actual situation. Unlike Bo3b, i think it cost nothing to try asking a little move to get ride of the old specification of 3D vision drivers concerning hdmi 2.xx. Of course, it will not be free for them to allocate time and money by paying an employee for this task of refreshing old requirements who are no more pertinent. Helifax, i totally agree with the fact that all this engineering can be use again for the other phenomem who is VR. By the way, D-Man, can you remember me who was the Nvidia employee who talked about the re-utilisation of 3D Vision tehcnology in VR? It was a video you posted in the past. So, let's get back to my main subject: How to make a good and clear message to ask attention of the situation, from the people who can take the decision. First of all, the title of the mail, what about my idea? An enthousiast gamer who love Nvidia technology, asking to break old limitation to enjoy your great innovations! Too long and pompous lol? Any better idea? Not enought percutant and giving the reader the intention to check the rest? Next, the core of the message: (To be improved, just writing a first draft) Hello X.Y, his title in Nvidia hierarchy, first of all, i want to thank you about all the things Nvidia bring to us gamers, with great products and innovation, like the best GPU perfomance in the market and wonderfull piece of software in 3D Vision, a great addition in games. So, i'm sending this message ... To be continued, time to sleep and continue another time ;). It's 2:07 am already lol.
I'm totally with you about the fact that it's a good strategic business decision to no more be intersted of this marginal thing 3D Vision is.

Just check the audience of Helixmod fixes, i supposed it was really bigger but finally it's little number so in term of business not so much value and interest.

I totally understand that they are tired of looking this forum, because look at my idea of topic, it was based on the idea of proposition and so much people came shout / cry about this or that, with lot of passion but only little constructive arguments to help move the actual situation.

Unlike Bo3b, i think it cost nothing to try asking a little move to get ride of the old specification of 3D vision drivers concerning hdmi 2.xx.
Of course, it will not be free for them to allocate time and money by paying an employee for this task of refreshing old requirements who are no more pertinent.

Helifax, i totally agree with the fact that all this engineering can be use again for the other phenomem who is VR.
By the way, D-Man, can you remember me who was the Nvidia employee who talked about the re-utilisation of 3D Vision tehcnology in VR?
It was a video you posted in the past.




So, let's get back to my main subject:
How to make a good and clear message to ask attention of the situation, from the people who can take the decision.

First of all, the title of the mail, what about my idea?
An enthousiast gamer who love Nvidia technology, asking to break old limitation to enjoy your great innovations!

Too long and pompous lol? Any better idea? Not enought percutant and giving the reader the intention to check the rest?



Next, the core of the message: (To be improved, just writing a first draft)

Hello X.Y, his title in Nvidia hierarchy,

first of all, i want to thank you about all the things Nvidia bring to us gamers, with great products and innovation, like the best GPU perfomance in the market and wonderfull piece of software in 3D Vision, a great addition in games.


So, i'm sending this message ...

To be continued, time to sleep and continue another time ;).
It's 2:07 am already lol.

#20
Posted 06/15/2017 12:06 AM   
I would be very happy with them just fixing the Core Performance issues. That needs to be the main priority at this point.....its truly broken
I would be very happy with them just fixing the Core Performance issues.

That needs to be the main priority at this point.....its truly broken

Gaming Rig 1

i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO

Gaming Rig 2
My new build

Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2

#21
Posted 06/15/2017 12:27 AM   
[quote="zaibaker"]I totally understand that they are tired of looking this forum, because look at my idea of topic, it was based on the idea of proposition and so much people came shout / cry about this or that, with lot of passion but only little constructive arguments to help move the actual situation.[/quote] FFS, you obviously do not use 3DTV Play And I'll say it again, the 24Hz limitation is STUPID and sucks balls. 3DTV Play is a gaming "middleware", there is zero excuse for that refresh cap.
zaibaker said:I totally understand that they are tired of looking this forum, because look at my idea of topic, it was based on the idea of proposition and so much people came shout / cry about this or that, with lot of passion but only little constructive arguments to help move the actual situation.


FFS, you obviously do not use 3DTV Play

And I'll say it again, the 24Hz limitation is STUPID and sucks balls.

3DTV Play is a gaming "middleware", there is zero excuse for that refresh cap.

#22
Posted 06/15/2017 01:52 AM   
Zen dude... And sorry but you are wrong, i use 3DTV play on my projector ;). I even bought this to thank Nvidia, not using any EDID hack. It's a stupid limitation of course, but take that in the old context when this tool came there was no graphic cards with the HDMI norm to allow a true 1080p@60hz. So in this time it wasn't really a limitation when it was built (even Helifax is talking about a 8 years ago technology, not so young). By the way, i never found a hdmi display that allow 1080p@60hz in 3D, it came only lately with hdmi 2.0 display. For information, HDMI 1.4 already allow 1080p@60hz in 3D, but the electronic in the hdmi controller don't allow enought pixel clock for that (Maximum TMDS clock 300mhz needed, information you can find in your EDID). So calm down, i'm trying to get ride of this by asking the "creator" to take a look on this :s. Other thing, it's not so easy technicaly i suppose and require time and an employee taking a "deep" look on this. Time and human ressource is money for big firms, it's not a software who add peanuts income for them who can lead to a high priority troubleshoot. Just real fact and how business work. Nvidia is really good about that. Additionaly, it seems some people forget it's a user to user forum, i'm trying to make a polite and respectful mail to bring attention on our problem. I will never be heard with insults, claim and all those bad feelings. Always big words on internet and so much anger :s. Poor Nvidia moderators lol, even between us there is no respect :(. Last time i write non constructive message, who don't help us to move forward. I will be back to continue finding the good terms for a message that will be heard, or not by Nvidia. That cost only free time for this initiative. I still hope there is reasonable and open minded people to help.
Zen dude...

And sorry but you are wrong, i use 3DTV play on my projector ;).
I even bought this to thank Nvidia, not using any EDID hack.

It's a stupid limitation of course, but take that in the old context when this tool came there was no graphic cards with the HDMI norm to allow a true 1080p@60hz.
So in this time it wasn't really a limitation when it was built (even Helifax is talking about a 8 years ago technology, not so young).

By the way, i never found a hdmi display that allow 1080p@60hz in 3D, it came only lately with hdmi 2.0 display.

For information, HDMI 1.4 already allow 1080p@60hz in 3D, but the electronic in the hdmi controller don't allow enought pixel clock for that (Maximum TMDS clock 300mhz needed, information you can find in your EDID).

So calm down, i'm trying to get ride of this by asking the "creator" to take a look on this :s.


Other thing, it's not so easy technicaly i suppose and require time and an employee taking a "deep" look on this.
Time and human ressource is money for big firms, it's not a software who add peanuts income for them who can lead to a high priority troubleshoot.
Just real fact and how business work. Nvidia is really good about that.


Additionaly, it seems some people forget it's a user to user forum, i'm trying to make a
polite and respectful mail to bring attention on our problem.
I will never be heard with insults, claim and all those bad feelings.

Always big words on internet and so much anger :s.
Poor Nvidia moderators lol, even between us there is no respect :(.


Last time i write non constructive message, who don't help us to move forward.



I will be back to continue finding the good terms for a message that will be heard, or not by Nvidia.
That cost only free time for this initiative.

I still hope there is reasonable and open minded people to help.

#23
Posted 06/15/2017 03:30 AM   
Say huh what? I'm not talking about 120Hz for 3DTV Play, and duh, we all know that HDMI 1.4 did not have the bandwidth to support it. I'm talking about the 24Hz cap, it needed to be 60. TriDef has always allowed that refresh rate via their stereoscopic formats. Please go read the HDMI 1.4 specs Oh and when you are using SbS or TnB via 3DMigoto on your HDMI 1.4 projector, guess what, it's not at 24Hz 24Hz is BS and we were promised Side by Side
Say huh what?

I'm not talking about 120Hz for 3DTV Play, and duh, we all know that HDMI 1.4 did not have the bandwidth to support it.

I'm talking about the 24Hz cap, it needed to be 60. TriDef has always allowed that refresh rate via their stereoscopic formats.

Please go read the HDMI 1.4 specs

Oh and when you are using SbS or TnB via 3DMigoto on your HDMI 1.4 projector, guess what, it's not at 24Hz

24Hz is BS and we were promised Side by Side

#24
Posted 06/15/2017 03:43 AM   
[quote="zaibaker"]How to make a good and clear message to ask attention of the situation, from the people who can take the decision.[/quote] Ummm, sorry to be so defeatist but the most incredibly worded request ever made wouldn't do it. NVIDIA is a company, not a charity. You've got to make a business case for fixing these things up. How is doing X going to result in more money showing up later? Doing a few fixes here and there (like keeping the 3DVisionLive website going and putting in 3D profiles) is about all we should expect at this point, IMHO. That reflects the small amount of extra money made selling graphics cards to meet the higher demands of 3D. My best hope is to see some sort of boost via VR. A VR headset is perfectly capable of showing a virtual monitor, which might as well be a 3D monitor. That should make it possible for VR to "emulate" 3D Vision. Of course, they might also just do something completely new and different. We'll have to see how it all works out. One way or another, though, I expect proper 3D gaming to live on in some form. It's too cool to die. (I just hope I can still get all my screenshots to display when I get to the old folks' home!)
zaibaker said:How to make a good and clear message to ask attention of the situation, from the people who can take the decision.

Ummm, sorry to be so defeatist but the most incredibly worded request ever made wouldn't do it. NVIDIA is a company, not a charity. You've got to make a business case for fixing these things up. How is doing X going to result in more money showing up later?

Doing a few fixes here and there (like keeping the 3DVisionLive website going and putting in 3D profiles) is about all we should expect at this point, IMHO. That reflects the small amount of extra money made selling graphics cards to meet the higher demands of 3D.

My best hope is to see some sort of boost via VR. A VR headset is perfectly capable of showing a virtual monitor, which might as well be a 3D monitor. That should make it possible for VR to "emulate" 3D Vision. Of course, they might also just do something completely new and different. We'll have to see how it all works out.

One way or another, though, I expect proper 3D gaming to live on in some form. It's too cool to die. (I just hope I can still get all my screenshots to display when I get to the old folks' home!)

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.

-- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"

#25
Posted 06/15/2017 03:57 AM   
Of course it's a company, not a charity. But i just want them to try a little more effort about this request at their support team. To get that, maybe a little boost with a "call" of their leaders can help. The best thing to do maybe for a serious look in this. Nothing to loose to try another canal that the usual ones. I know that this can result in nothing as it's far from an important thing.
Of course it's a company, not a charity.

But i just want them to try a little more effort about this request at their support team.
To get that, maybe a little boost with a "call" of their leaders can help.
The best thing to do maybe for a serious look in this.

Nothing to loose to try another canal that the usual ones.

I know that this can result in nothing as it's far from an important thing.

#26
Posted 06/15/2017 04:05 AM   
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