Enabling 3d Causes 70-85% FPS drop in certain games?
  1 / 6    
I was not sure how to title this thread, but I have an issue I need help understanding. What happens is in certain games only in certain areas the framerate in 3d is much lower than the average 50% drop expected with running in 3d. What I need help understanding is if this issue is a game engine issue, or an Nvidia 3d issue. Not trying to blame either nor expect anyone to fix it for me, but I am trying to really understand why this might be happening. I opened a new thread because this issue is NOT stutter, but a general steady drop in the FPS when either in certain areas or when looking at certain things. I plan to add some video examples later but for now let me describe what is happening in the games I have noticed it. [color="green"]Batman Arkham City[/color] Settings: Does not matter what resolution or graphic settings I have on or off. Where : when just inside the courthouse, but outside the main area where you fight Twoface's thugs (detective mode enabled) or when inside the main area but looking towards the green chemical vat (detective mode disabled) What: With 3dVision disabled I get over 100fps in this area. Enabled 3dVision (3d off) and I get around 30fps. Enabled 3dVision (3d on) and I get under 25fps. If I move the camera away from that specific area the FPS immediately jumps back up. During this fps drops the GPU usage drops by around 50%. [color="green"]Dishonored (helixmod)[/color] - will post video later Settings: 1680x1050, FXAA, NO Vsync, Everything else ON Where : Multiple locations. Example - After just breaking out of jail in the beginning of the game you go past an area then up the stairs. Kill the two guards on the upper area and then look back down at the area towards your cell. What: With 3dVision enabled (3d Off) I get over 150fps in this area. Enable 3dVision (3d ON) and the fps drops to just above 30 fps. A drop of over 80%. There are other areas like this in the game and this has prevented me from playing this game in 3dVision. I will also mention that the drops are still there, but less pronounced with Helixmod uninstalled (Of course then all the shaders are messed up). [color="green"]Ghostbusters[/color] - will post video later Settings: 1680x1050, NO Vsync or FPS limit, Everything else ON Where : Multiple locations. Example - In the lobby of the Hotel on your second visit at the beginnig of the level when looking towards the second lobby. What: With 3dVision enabled (3d Off) I get over 80fps in this area. Enable 3dVision (3d ON) and the fps drops to just around 18 fps. If I look away or move to the next section the FPS goes back up to over 60fps If I turn off dynamic shadows the fps is much higher in this section with 3d On. There are other areas like this in the game where the drop in framerate is much higher than expected. Again I am not looking for a solution per say (if there is one I will gladly take it) or am I blaming Nvidia, but I am looking for more of an explanation from those wiser than me on why this larger than normal drop occurs. I will also mention that this issue is not exclusive to my current system and I remember this issue exactly in Dishonored and Ghostbusters on my older Phenom and 660ti in Windows 7.
I was not sure how to title this thread, but I have an issue I need help understanding. What happens is in certain games only in certain areas the framerate in 3d is much lower than the average 50% drop expected with running in 3d. What I need help understanding is if this issue is a game engine issue, or an Nvidia 3d issue. Not trying to blame either nor expect anyone to fix it for me, but I am trying to really understand why this might be happening.

I opened a new thread because this issue is NOT stutter, but a general steady drop in the FPS when either in certain areas or when looking at certain things.

I plan to add some video examples later but for now let me describe what is happening in the games I have noticed it.

Batman Arkham City
Settings: Does not matter what resolution or graphic settings I have on or off.
Where : when just inside the courthouse, but outside the main area where you fight Twoface's thugs (detective mode enabled) or when inside the main area but looking towards the green chemical vat (detective mode disabled)
What: With 3dVision disabled I get over 100fps in this area. Enabled 3dVision (3d off) and I get around 30fps. Enabled 3dVision (3d on) and I get under 25fps. If I move the camera away from that specific area the FPS immediately jumps back up. During this fps drops the GPU usage drops by around 50%.


Dishonored (helixmod) - will post video later
Settings: 1680x1050, FXAA, NO Vsync, Everything else ON
Where : Multiple locations. Example - After just breaking out of jail in the beginning of the game you go past an area then up the stairs. Kill the two guards on the upper area and then look back down at the area towards your cell.
What: With 3dVision enabled (3d Off) I get over 150fps in this area. Enable 3dVision (3d ON) and the fps drops to just above 30 fps. A drop of over 80%. There are other areas like this in the game and this has prevented me from playing this game in 3dVision. I will also mention that the drops are still there, but less pronounced with Helixmod uninstalled (Of course then all the shaders are messed up).

Ghostbusters - will post video later
Settings: 1680x1050, NO Vsync or FPS limit, Everything else ON
Where : Multiple locations. Example - In the lobby of the Hotel on your second visit at the beginnig of the level when looking towards the second lobby.
What: With 3dVision enabled (3d Off) I get over 80fps in this area. Enable 3dVision (3d ON) and the fps drops to just around 18 fps. If I look away or move to the next section the FPS goes back up to over 60fps If I turn off dynamic shadows the fps is much higher in this section with 3d On. There are other areas like this in the game where the drop in framerate is much higher than expected.


Again I am not looking for a solution per say (if there is one I will gladly take it) or am I blaming Nvidia, but I am looking for more of an explanation from those wiser than me on why this larger than normal drop occurs.

I will also mention that this issue is not exclusive to my current system and I remember this issue exactly in Dishonored and Ghostbusters on my older Phenom and 660ti in Windows 7.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#1
Posted 09/26/2016 01:00 PM   
[color="green"]Hitman Absolution (CM Mode)[/color] - will post video later if needed. Settings: Will check later Where : Inside the lobby of the Library in the On the Run mission. What: With 3dVision enabled (3d Off) I get over 90fps in this area. Enable 3dVision (3d ON) and the fps drops to just around 25 fps.
Hitman Absolution (CM Mode) - will post video later if needed.
Settings: Will check later
Where : Inside the lobby of the Library in the On the Run mission.
What: With 3dVision enabled (3d Off) I get over 90fps in this area. Enable 3dVision (3d ON) and the fps drops to just around 25 fps.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#2
Posted 09/26/2016 01:03 PM   
terintamel, what you are describing here is the CPU usage bottleneck we discuss in the other thread mate. Look at your GPU usage - it's ~12% or so, meaning your CPU is bottlenecked. Change the clock on your CPU and I will bet your FPS will go up and down depending on the set clock. Am I misunderstanding why this isn't the same problem? Also, in afterburner, just set to show average CPU usage instead of displaying the usage on individual cores.
terintamel, what you are describing here is the CPU usage bottleneck we discuss in the other thread mate. Look at your GPU usage - it's ~12% or so, meaning your CPU is bottlenecked. Change the clock on your CPU and I will bet your FPS will go up and down depending on the set clock.

Am I misunderstanding why this isn't the same problem?

Also, in afterburner, just set to show average CPU usage instead of displaying the usage on individual cores.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#3
Posted 09/26/2016 01:19 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]terintamel, what you are describing here is the CPU usage bottleneck we discuss in the other thread mate. Look at your GPU usage - it's ~12% or so, meaning your CPU is bottlenecked. Change the clock on your CPU and I will bet your FPS will go up and down depending on the set clock. Am I misunderstanding why this isn't the same problem? Also, in afterburner, just set to show average CPU usage instead of displaying the usage on individual cores.[/quote] Ok. Maybe I should post this in the other forum, but I was under the impression that the CPU limitation issue was causing stutter, or low FPS in all situations. This issue is only when looking at specific areas in certain games so I did not think it a CPU issue. Also, I have not done CPU tests for the other 3 games listed so it is possible that it will not show the same CPU drops that Arkham City showed (remember that video was posted in my stutter thread). After I do some tests, paying attention to CPU load, I will update this thread if it needs to be moved to the CPU limit thread. I really am not trying to clutter up the forums with multiple threads of the same issue. One other thing is that for me on driver 372.90 the games that stuttered before do no appear to show the CPU usage issue they had before.
RAGEdemon said:terintamel, what you are describing here is the CPU usage bottleneck we discuss in the other thread mate. Look at your GPU usage - it's ~12% or so, meaning your CPU is bottlenecked. Change the clock on your CPU and I will bet your FPS will go up and down depending on the set clock.

Am I misunderstanding why this isn't the same problem?

Also, in afterburner, just set to show average CPU usage instead of displaying the usage on individual cores.


Ok. Maybe I should post this in the other forum, but I was under the impression that the CPU limitation issue was causing stutter, or low FPS in all situations. This issue is only when looking at specific areas in certain games so I did not think it a CPU issue. Also, I have not done CPU tests for the other 3 games listed so it is possible that it will not show the same CPU drops that Arkham City showed (remember that video was posted in my stutter thread).

After I do some tests, paying attention to CPU load, I will update this thread if it needs to be moved to the CPU limit thread. I really am not trying to clutter up the forums with multiple threads of the same issue.

One other thing is that for me on driver 372.90 the games that stuttered before do no appear to show the CPU usage issue they had before.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#4
Posted 09/26/2016 01:51 PM   
Use something like CPUz and make sure that your GPU is at 16X 2.0 in a 16x slot. For Batman, a dedicated PhysX card will help.
Use something like CPUz and make sure that your GPU is at 16X 2.0 in a 16x slot.

For Batman, a dedicated PhysX card will help.

#5
Posted 09/26/2016 03:04 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]Use something like CPUz and make sure that your GPU is at 16X 2.0 in a 16x slot. For Batman, a dedicated PhysX card will help.[/quote] CPUz shows 16X 3.0 for the GPU. In the above tests PhysX effects were off.
D-Man11 said:Use something like CPUz and make sure that your GPU is at 16X 2.0 in a 16x slot.

For Batman, a dedicated PhysX card will help.

CPUz shows 16X 3.0 for the GPU.

In the above tests PhysX effects were off.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#6
Posted 09/26/2016 03:11 PM   
Interesting that helixmod makes the framedrops worse. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that helixmod hits the CPU for performance a bit, which may indicate you're seeing CPU bottlenecking, as RAGE suggests.
Interesting that helixmod makes the framedrops worse. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that helixmod hits the CPU for performance a bit, which may indicate you're seeing CPU bottlenecking, as RAGE suggests.

#7
Posted 09/26/2016 03:16 PM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Interesting that helixmod makes the framedrops worse. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that helixmod hits the CPU for performance a bit, which may indicate you're seeing CPU bottlenecking, as RAGE suggests.[/quote] I'll definitely check that out. This issue is not really major for me like the stutter issue (which has been solved), but I am just trying to get a better idea of how all this works so I know what issues are bugs and which ones are just the limitations of my system in certain games; even ones that are quite old.
Pirateguybrush said:Interesting that helixmod makes the framedrops worse. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that helixmod hits the CPU for performance a bit, which may indicate you're seeing CPU bottlenecking, as RAGE suggests.


I'll definitely check that out. This issue is not really major for me like the stutter issue (which has been solved), but I am just trying to get a better idea of how all this works so I know what issues are bugs and which ones are just the limitations of my system in certain games; even ones that are quite old.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#8
Posted 09/26/2016 03:40 PM   
Here are some better example videos of what I am seeing. All videos are with the 3Dvision driver enabled and I just turn on or off 3d using the button on the Emitter. Batman Arkham City https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgFcYjbuREU&feature=youtu.be Dishonored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km-e1tkzZ98&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWfCObQDAEs&feature=youtu.be I did try turning the affinity down in Dishonored and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 80fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (80fps) and 3d (35fps) was around 23-25%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 39% 2D (112fps) and 24% 3D (45fps). Ghostbusters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3eyXax0DVc&feature=youtu.be I also tried the affinity down in Ghostbusters and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 33fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (33fps) and 3d (12fps) was around 27%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 41% 2D (80fps) and 24% 3D (20fps). Do the above look like the CPU issue or something else? What further tests should I do, or is this just a per game game engine issue?
Here are some better example videos of what I am seeing. All videos are with the 3Dvision driver enabled and I just turn on or off 3d using the button on the Emitter.

Batman Arkham City
;feature=youtu.be

Dishonored
;feature=youtu.be
;feature=youtu.be
I did try turning the affinity down in Dishonored and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 80fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (80fps) and 3d (35fps) was around 23-25%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 39% 2D (112fps) and 24% 3D (45fps).

Ghostbusters
;feature=youtu.be
I also tried the affinity down in Ghostbusters and in the scene in the first video the lowest I could get the 2d fps to go was 33fps when running with just 2 cores. CPU usage for 2 core 2d (33fps) and 3d (12fps) was around 27%. CPU usage for 8 cores was 41% 2D (80fps) and 24% 3D (20fps).

Do the above look like the CPU issue or something else? What further tests should I do, or is this just a per game game engine issue?

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#9
Posted 09/26/2016 09:56 PM   
Just seeing if anyone has noticed something like this before or have an explanation. If not that is fine. I won't bump this thread anymore.
Just seeing if anyone has noticed something like this before or have an explanation.

If not that is fine. I won't bump this thread anymore.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#10
Posted 09/29/2016 12:30 AM   
I'm sure the drivers have gotten worse over the years, or maybe the display driver has changed a lot and the 3D Vision driver doesn't work as well with it anymore (because nvidia don't care about 3D Vision). Dark Souls 1 has some awful framerate drops in certain areas in 3D which it never used to have. In 3D it runs worse on my 970 than on my old 560 TI (but only with an old driver which predates and doesn't work on the 970). I also did a recent Dishonored playthrough in 3D and saw lots of framerate drops which I didn't see the last time I played it (also in 3D). Weird how the CPU load in your videos swaps from CPU1 to CPU8 with 3D Vision enabled. It may well be a CPU bottleneck causing the slowdown, but the question is why 3D Vision causes more CPU load, and whether it has always been that way.
I'm sure the drivers have gotten worse over the years, or maybe the display driver has changed a lot and the 3D Vision driver doesn't work as well with it anymore (because nvidia don't care about 3D Vision). Dark Souls 1 has some awful framerate drops in certain areas in 3D which it never used to have. In 3D it runs worse on my 970 than on my old 560 TI (but only with an old driver which predates and doesn't work on the 970).

I also did a recent Dishonored playthrough in 3D and saw lots of framerate drops which I didn't see the last time I played it (also in 3D).

Weird how the CPU load in your videos swaps from CPU1 to CPU8 with 3D Vision enabled. It may well be a CPU bottleneck causing the slowdown, but the question is why 3D Vision causes more CPU load, and whether it has always been that way.

#11
Posted 09/29/2016 10:58 PM   
Well for sure there are some FPS drops - for example in RoTR at some places fps goes down to 30 (1080p 3d with Helifax' fix) and that with TitanXP/6700k all overclocked... But its really hard to make any conclusions - yes CPU/GPU usage is quite low at that areas - around 40%/50% but it is not clear if it is a problem of game engine or driver itself. And its impossible to try old drivers - TitanXP doesn't have that many of them... So I'm not sure anything constructive can be born out of this discussion...
Well for sure there are some FPS drops - for example in RoTR at some places fps goes down to 30 (1080p 3d with Helifax' fix) and that with TitanXP/6700k all overclocked... But its really hard to make any conclusions - yes CPU/GPU usage is quite low at that areas - around 40%/50% but it is not clear if it is a problem of game engine or driver itself. And its impossible to try old drivers - TitanXP doesn't have that many of them... So I'm not sure anything constructive can be born out of this discussion...

#12
Posted 09/30/2016 06:46 AM   
Thank you for your input and observations. The point of this thread was for me to find out if this issue is common or is an indication of some type of issue. I wanted to know if others have seen issue where in older games there are areas where your framerate in 3D is well below 50% of the 2d framerate. In particular I want to know about the games I reference. Is this normal? I don't expect my games to run at a 60fps lock during the whole game as I do not have the beefiest system, but these games in particular show much larger than expected drops in framerate (70-85%) that does not seem to correspond to the graphical effects or the complexity of the area rendered. Especially as these games are quite a few years old. So far these are the only games that I have seen this issue on. My other games both new and old, especially with the latest driver, run as I would expect them to.
Thank you for your input and observations.

The point of this thread was for me to find out if this issue is common or is an indication of some type of issue. I wanted to know if others have seen issue where in older games there are areas where your framerate in 3D is well below 50% of the 2d framerate. In particular I want to know about the games I reference. Is this normal?

I don't expect my games to run at a 60fps lock during the whole game as I do not have the beefiest system, but these games in particular show much larger than expected drops in framerate (70-85%) that does not seem to correspond to the graphical effects or the complexity of the area rendered. Especially as these games are quite a few years old.

So far these are the only games that I have seen this issue on. My other games both new and old, especially with the latest driver, run as I would expect them to.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#13
Posted 09/30/2016 12:49 PM   
I have similar issues. It's not always related to 3D vision for me though as some games do that even without 3D vision activated. Ex, Doom in some bigger more wide open areas, I get both low GPU and CPU usage, and as soon as I move the camera to a wall or something away from the huge area, the GPU usage goes to 99% I can understand if my CPU was close to maxing out on any of the cores, which would indicate CPU bottleneck but I'm getting both Low GPU and CPU, so I really have no idea why this is happening either. in 2D I can play Doom in 4K with everything max and never dip below 60FPS and my GPU average is only about 50% with Vysnc on. Now when I turn off Vsync in some areas GPU usage Still drops and so do the FPS but it never goes below 70 to 80 FPS, however with 3D vision fix from Helifax, it means that I drop well below 60fps in 3D with both low GPU and CPU usage and the game is not very playable with screen snyc at that point. At least for Doom it's not just a 3D vision issue, but in 2D, you would never ever even notice when playing with vysnc and at 60fps, so maybe it's an engine issue.
I have similar issues. It's not always related to 3D vision for me though as some games do that even without 3D vision activated.

Ex, Doom in some bigger more wide open areas, I get both low GPU and CPU usage, and as soon as I move the camera to a wall or something away from the huge area, the GPU usage goes to 99%

I can understand if my CPU was close to maxing out on any of the cores, which would indicate CPU bottleneck but I'm getting both Low GPU and CPU, so I really have no idea why this is happening either.

in 2D I can play Doom in 4K with everything max and never dip below 60FPS and my GPU average is only about 50% with Vysnc on. Now when I turn off Vsync in some areas GPU usage Still drops and so do the FPS but it never goes below 70 to 80 FPS, however with 3D vision fix from Helifax, it means that I drop well below 60fps in 3D with both low GPU and CPU usage and the game is not very playable with screen snyc at that point.

At least for Doom it's not just a 3D vision issue, but in 2D, you would never ever even notice when playing with vysnc and at 60fps, so maybe it's an engine issue.

#14
Posted 09/30/2016 02:22 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]terintamel, what you are describing here is the CPU usage bottleneck we discuss in the other thread mate. Look at your GPU usage - it's ~12% or so, meaning your CPU is bottlenecked. Change the clock on your CPU and I will bet your FPS will go up and down depending on the set clock. Am I misunderstanding why this isn't the same problem? Also, in afterburner, just set to show average CPU usage instead of displaying the usage on individual cores.[/quote] But how could it be CPU bottleneck when his CPU usage is low. So with the average option it will just show the average of all active cores? Gotta change that to as I'ts annoying having to look at 8 CPU cores in Afterburner. LOL
RAGEdemon said:terintamel, what you are describing here is the CPU usage bottleneck we discuss in the other thread mate. Look at your GPU usage - it's ~12% or so, meaning your CPU is bottlenecked. Change the clock on your CPU and I will bet your FPS will go up and down depending on the set clock.

Am I misunderstanding why this isn't the same problem?

Also, in afterburner, just set to show average CPU usage instead of displaying the usage on individual cores.


But how could it be CPU bottleneck when his CPU usage is low.

So with the average option it will just show the average of all active cores? Gotta change that to as I'ts annoying having to look at 8 CPU cores in Afterburner. LOL

#15
Posted 09/30/2016 02:28 PM   
  1 / 6    
Scroll To Top