Do you guys want to play 3D vision games in VR?!
  1 / 2    
Virtual Desktop is an awesome app that lets you run windows on a VR "monitor" in the Rift and Vive. IT's a great way to play any type of media and lets you run your VR headset without having to use a monitor. The creator is doing a poll to see what feature he should add next and 3D vision is an option! I think this would be great and even if you don't have a VR headset right now, you should still vote to show that 3D vision is still alive and kicking and maybe one day you will get a VR headset and it would be cool to have 3D vision games working in VR. I believe that this will basically be a virtual screen that plays 3D vision games in 3D. Still cool, but I don't think it will have any headtracking or anything. Still, it should be cool playing 3D vision games on a simulated giant IMAX screen. http://feedback.vrdesktop.net/
Virtual Desktop is an awesome app that lets you run windows on a VR "monitor" in the Rift and Vive. IT's a great way to play any type of media and lets you run your VR headset without having to use a monitor.

The creator is doing a poll to see what feature he should add next and 3D vision is an option! I think this would be great and even if you don't have a VR headset right now, you should still vote to show that 3D vision is still alive and kicking and maybe one day you will get a VR headset and it would be cool to have 3D vision games working in VR.

I believe that this will basically be a virtual screen that plays 3D vision games in 3D. Still cool, but I don't think it will have any headtracking or anything. Still, it should be cool playing 3D vision games on a simulated giant IMAX screen.


http://feedback.vrdesktop.net/

#1
Posted 05/26/2016 02:51 PM   
Voted. If/When 3D Vision 2 monitors stop being made (hopefully not the next batch of monitors), VR will be the only thing left.
Voted.

If/When 3D Vision 2 monitors stop being made (hopefully not the next batch of monitors), VR will be the only thing left.

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#2
Posted 05/26/2016 03:05 PM   
voted!
voted!

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#3
Posted 05/26/2016 03:07 PM   
Voted
Voted

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#4
Posted 05/26/2016 03:11 PM   
It's neat but it'll be a relatively lo-res 3D virtual screen... even compared to 3DTV Play and zooming in and out will change the Virtual Monitor's size, which will in turn change the effectiveness of your Depth. Zoom in too close and it'll be over-powering, zoom out too far and it'll be underwhelming... if it's not already one or the other because it's not properly set to an equivalent MonitorSize/MonitorSizeOverride.
It's neat but it'll be a relatively lo-res 3D virtual screen... even compared to 3DTV Play and zooming in and out will change the Virtual Monitor's size, which will in turn change the effectiveness of your Depth. Zoom in too close and it'll be over-powering, zoom out too far and it'll be underwhelming... if it's not already one or the other because it's not properly set to an equivalent MonitorSize/MonitorSizeOverride.
#5
Posted 05/26/2016 03:20 PM   
It depends, because the Vive has a very low resolution not comparable to 3D vision. But of course it would be great. Actually Vorpx gives you some 3D vision effect for playing them on the Vive. On the other hand the 3D is not comparable to real 3D vision (fixed or native, it does not matter...). What we need are better HMD. PS: I own a Vive and I am actually one of those people that were a bit disappointed in comparison to what I experienced the last four year with 3D vision. The room scale games are amazing, but the seating and standing experience on normal games like Project Cars or Ethan Carter is just decent and blurry.
It depends, because the Vive has a very low resolution not comparable to 3D vision. But of course it would be great. Actually Vorpx gives you some 3D vision effect for playing them on the Vive. On the other hand the 3D is not comparable to real 3D vision (fixed or native, it does not matter...).

What we need are better HMD.

PS: I own a Vive and I am actually one of those people that were a bit disappointed in comparison to what I experienced the last four year with 3D vision. The room scale games are amazing, but the seating and standing experience on normal games like Project Cars or Ethan Carter is just decent and blurry.

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#6
Posted 05/26/2016 06:40 PM   
@mrorange55: Welcome to the club;) When I said something like this a while ago, people thought I had something against VR. I didn't and don't! I have to agree with you 100% Going from 3D Surround to VR, the difference is even bigger! Room scaling though is awesome!
@mrorange55:
Welcome to the club;) When I said something like this a while ago, people thought I had something against VR. I didn't and don't!
I have to agree with you 100% Going from 3D Surround to VR, the difference is even bigger! Room scaling though is awesome!

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#7
Posted 05/26/2016 07:37 PM   
It seems that we 3D vision gamers were just too spoiled the last years with awesome new games in awesome 3D. I had my Samsung Gear VR before the Vive and it was actually the first HMD I played. The first thing that disappointed me the very second putting it on was the very strong visible pixel-net due to the bad resolution and I actually thought this will be almost invisible on the Vive. But I was mistaken. Seeing that actually my S7 Edge with the Samsung Gear VR is almost as good as my Vive together with a Titan X is a bit puzzling. Beyond of the overall resolution discussion, I have to admit that there are actually no interesting games on the Vive. Sure it is fun to jump a bit around in Valve's The Lab (the best "game" at the moment and it is free), and it is also nice to play a round of all those Horde trainer shooting games and even Vanishing Realms (an action adventure) is interesting. But in the end they are all only very expensive tech demos to show for 15 minutes to your friend why you VR is going to be a big thing... someyear... And here we are, it is going to be... but not this year and maybe not even in 2017, but in 2018 if the GPU and the screen solution will finally be powerful enough to give you a similar experience as 3D vision. I admit I was myself hyped like crazy - I even told the postman the day my Vive arrived, that today is my happiest day - lol - and now I am actually thinking about to sell my Vive just to be ready for the VR 2.0 revolution. Because with VR 1.0 Consumer HMD I am actually not expecting more than the few tech demos we have for now. Pay 20 EUR, play max one hour and drop it. That's not worth it. Overall good that I can still enjoy some 2D and of course 3D vision games.
It seems that we 3D vision gamers were just too spoiled the last years with awesome new games in awesome 3D.

I had my Samsung Gear VR before the Vive and it was actually the first HMD I played. The first thing that disappointed me the very second putting it on was the very strong visible pixel-net due to the bad resolution and I actually thought this will be almost invisible on the Vive. But I was mistaken. Seeing that actually my S7 Edge with the Samsung Gear VR is almost as good as my Vive together with a Titan X is a bit puzzling.

Beyond of the overall resolution discussion, I have to admit that there are actually no interesting games on the Vive. Sure it is fun to jump a bit around in Valve's The Lab (the best "game" at the moment and it is free), and it is also nice to play a round of all those Horde trainer shooting games and even Vanishing Realms (an action adventure) is interesting. But in the end they are all only very expensive tech demos to show for 15 minutes to your friend why you VR is going to be a big thing... someyear...

And here we are, it is going to be... but not this year and maybe not even in 2017, but in 2018 if the GPU and the screen solution will finally be powerful enough to give you a similar experience as 3D vision.

I admit I was myself hyped like crazy - I even told the postman the day my Vive arrived, that today is my happiest day - lol - and now I am actually thinking about to sell my Vive just to be ready for the VR 2.0 revolution. Because with VR 1.0 Consumer HMD I am actually not expecting more than the few tech demos we have for now. Pay 20 EUR, play max one hour and drop it. That's not worth it.

Overall good that I can still enjoy some 2D and of course 3D vision games.

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#8
Posted 05/26/2016 08:00 PM   
I can add some detail here too. You probably won't be too surprised that I've been working on this setup myself, and have a prototype working where we can play 3D Vision on the headset. I used Rift to start with, but should work same on Vive when I get time to use OpenVR. The only thing is- it's a terrible experience. I haven't put a ton of effort into it, but I can report that compared to normal high-quality 3D Visin hardware/monitor/projector that doing this in headset dramatically degrades the experience. I expect to keep working on this, so if we do get a future where no more hardware is made for 3D Vision, we can easily switch to VR headsets. On the other hand, I already learned what I need to do an eye-swap, so we can easily use any projector on the market today for DX11 fixes. I'll be adding eye-swap to 3Dmigoto soon. NVidia is clearly never going to get around to it. Details on why it's bad. Firstly, the resolution is terrible. The Rift has much improved screen door, to the point where I don't really notice it. Unlike DK2 where it's a full-on immersion breaker for me. However, even with not-annoying SDE, the resolution is pathetic, at somewhere around 800x600. I compared to my monitor set to super low resolutions to see, and it's a similar experience to playing with it set to 800x600, maybe 1024x768. So, even though the screens in the headset are high res at 2560x1200, the perceived resolution is really bad. So using it as a monitor/bigscreen can work, but is so much worse than your current hardware that I don't know why you would. At least to play 3D Vision games. Clearly for actual VR games, it is what it is, and has it's own charm. The lack of ghosting and color and brightness are very good, because it's separate eyes, no lcd flicker. But I still think the resolution is a deal-breaker. And keep in mind that I'm a big proponent of Projector for 3D Vision use, at 1280x720. Secondly, the performance is absolutely terrible. After some amount of research I've found that SLI is essentially disabled by current VR solutions. I expect that to change, but for the Rift SDK in particular, everything is single-threaded and there is no easy way to avoid this, because the SDK requires the same DX11Device that the game is using. I figured out a heroic way to get around this limitation, and gained some 40% in performance, but it's still terrible. Terrible to the point of unplayable, even with low standards. Compared to a proper 3D Vision setup, you can expect to lose another 50% on top of the 3D Vision 50%. Not being able to enable SLI in any game here, even when SLI works properly for the game is another body blow. I might be able to work out something here, but it's really, really hard. It's not clear if that will even matter though, because it looks to be CPU bound in nearly all cases because of their single-threaded approach. The other kicker here is that to alleviate the poor resolution, the only way to do it is to super-sample, draw much larger images, then shrink them onto the active area of the screen (your simulated big-screen). So, not only do you get poor resolution from using only the sweet spot of a giant screen, you really need to draw 2x that big screen at a minimum. So, think like draw 4K, to shrink onto a 2560x1200 screen, in order to make that sub section of 1024x768 barely acceptable. No surprise, this hammers your performance- and no way to use SLI. Thirdly, the god-rays are not a minor problem, they are seriously terrible for a virtual screen. Every high-contrast scene has serious god-rays. So playing any game like Alien Isolation is seriously irritating because it's like having a big smudge across the screen that moves as you change the on-screen image. Go into any of the theater style apps, and play video with high contrast sections and you'll see. In my opinion, this makes VR headsets not even viable for virtual cinema use, because it's just annoying. Going with fresnel lens was a huge mistake. It's an interesting confluence of technologies, but all combined, it makes for a really weak virtual screen experience, not at all what the VR boosters would have you believe. We've fortunately and unfortunately tasted a high quality experience before VR, so we have something to compare it to. Keep in mind that 99% of the people who are yelling at the top of lungs about how awesome VR is, have never experienced 3D Vision. So.... It's not impossible, but for this generation at least, the virtual screen is quite a lot worse than your current setups. It does give us a 3D future though, which is why I expect to continue working on it. I'm not dissing VR itself. There are some seriously cool experiences to be had there. Eve Valkyrie is a really immersive and compelling game, where all the drawbacks are ignored by the rush of the experience. Similarly, room-scale Vive experiences are really unique, something I've never seen before. In the same way, the terrible resolution and god-rays are ignored because you are in the middle of something really dynamic and compelling. But, sitting on your real couch watching a virtual screen do 3D Vision does not fall into those categories, which leaves your mind time to focus on the defects instead.
I can add some detail here too. You probably won't be too surprised that I've been working on this setup myself, and have a prototype working where we can play 3D Vision on the headset. I used Rift to start with, but should work same on Vive when I get time to use OpenVR.

The only thing is- it's a terrible experience. I haven't put a ton of effort into it, but I can report that compared to normal high-quality 3D Visin hardware/monitor/projector that doing this in headset dramatically degrades the experience.

I expect to keep working on this, so if we do get a future where no more hardware is made for 3D Vision, we can easily switch to VR headsets. On the other hand, I already learned what I need to do an eye-swap, so we can easily use any projector on the market today for DX11 fixes. I'll be adding eye-swap to 3Dmigoto soon. NVidia is clearly never going to get around to it.


Details on why it's bad.

Firstly, the resolution is terrible. The Rift has much improved screen door, to the point where I don't really notice it. Unlike DK2 where it's a full-on immersion breaker for me. However, even with not-annoying SDE, the resolution is pathetic, at somewhere around 800x600. I compared to my monitor set to super low resolutions to see, and it's a similar experience to playing with it set to 800x600, maybe 1024x768.

So, even though the screens in the headset are high res at 2560x1200, the perceived resolution is really bad. So using it as a monitor/bigscreen can work, but is so much worse than your current hardware that I don't know why you would. At least to play 3D Vision games. Clearly for actual VR games, it is what it is, and has it's own charm.

The lack of ghosting and color and brightness are very good, because it's separate eyes, no lcd flicker. But I still think the resolution is a deal-breaker. And keep in mind that I'm a big proponent of Projector for 3D Vision use, at 1280x720.

Secondly, the performance is absolutely terrible. After some amount of research I've found that SLI is essentially disabled by current VR solutions.

I expect that to change, but for the Rift SDK in particular, everything is single-threaded and there is no easy way to avoid this, because the SDK requires the same DX11Device that the game is using. I figured out a heroic way to get around this limitation, and gained some 40% in performance, but it's still terrible. Terrible to the point of unplayable, even with low standards. Compared to a proper 3D Vision setup, you can expect to lose another 50% on top of the 3D Vision 50%.

Not being able to enable SLI in any game here, even when SLI works properly for the game is another body blow. I might be able to work out something here, but it's really, really hard. It's not clear if that will even matter though, because it looks to be CPU bound in nearly all cases because of their single-threaded approach.

The other kicker here is that to alleviate the poor resolution, the only way to do it is to super-sample, draw much larger images, then shrink them onto the active area of the screen (your simulated big-screen). So, not only do you get poor resolution from using only the sweet spot of a giant screen, you really need to draw 2x that big screen at a minimum. So, think like draw 4K, to shrink onto a 2560x1200 screen, in order to make that sub section of 1024x768 barely acceptable. No surprise, this hammers your performance- and no way to use SLI.

Thirdly, the god-rays are not a minor problem, they are seriously terrible for a virtual screen. Every high-contrast scene has serious god-rays. So playing any game like Alien Isolation is seriously irritating because it's like having a big smudge across the screen that moves as you change the on-screen image. Go into any of the theater style apps, and play video with high contrast sections and you'll see. In my opinion, this makes VR headsets not even viable for virtual cinema use, because it's just annoying. Going with fresnel lens was a huge mistake.


It's an interesting confluence of technologies, but all combined, it makes for a really weak virtual screen experience, not at all what the VR boosters would have you believe. We've fortunately and unfortunately tasted a high quality experience before VR, so we have something to compare it to. Keep in mind that 99% of the people who are yelling at the top of lungs about how awesome VR is, have never experienced 3D Vision.

So.... It's not impossible, but for this generation at least, the virtual screen is quite a lot worse than your current setups. It does give us a 3D future though, which is why I expect to continue working on it.


I'm not dissing VR itself. There are some seriously cool experiences to be had there. Eve Valkyrie is a really immersive and compelling game, where all the drawbacks are ignored by the rush of the experience.

Similarly, room-scale Vive experiences are really unique, something I've never seen before. In the same way, the terrible resolution and god-rays are ignored because you are in the middle of something really dynamic and compelling.

But, sitting on your real couch watching a virtual screen do 3D Vision does not fall into those categories, which leaves your mind time to focus on the defects instead.

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#9
Posted 05/27/2016 03:33 AM   
I really think its going to be a mixed bag. Games that lack hud, and have solid colors will shine like Mirrors Edge[MINUS BLOOM] / Audio Surf. I think VR has possibility to add something to a game though I think there are far more that its just not going to work out. Cant speak for SDE of oculus but it can be pretty bad on Vive. Games that are well designed for Vive use solid colors and lack detail so its not as noticeable for MOST part.. Then you run into a game where its not really designed in this way and your like wow. Issue is exacerbated looking at anything past X distance magnifies. Like Valve has this fun little catapault game and your mostly looking in distance and since its kind of detailed you can see every pixel vividly. While the close quarters game that uses solid colors which is Budget Cuts you don't notice it after initial game start up. Its hard to explain to someone who hasnt tried the Vive but the SDE can range from stopped noticing it past putting it on - to I can count the pixels and these are on games designed for VR/hudless. I bought Virtual Desktop because I read good things and it IS a good piece of software but its not an OS designed for VR. Its your OS translated to a VR. It was so bad I thought I was having vision issues. Text is not really meant to be able to viewed on a VR screen yet. In job Simulator if you see a product/item/whatever it will say in HUGE font what it is and even then if you take a step back it gets very slightly blurry. Again, I think its worth pursueing just cause there are games right NOW that can be great experiences on VR and the technology is still young and it will catch up in a generation possibly two. I voted.
I really think its going to be a mixed bag. Games that lack hud, and have solid colors will shine like Mirrors Edge[MINUS BLOOM] / Audio Surf. I think VR has possibility to add something to a game though I think there are far more that its just not going to work out.

Cant speak for SDE of oculus but it can be pretty bad on Vive. Games that are well designed for Vive use solid colors and lack detail so its not as noticeable for MOST part.. Then you run into a game where its not really designed in this way and your like wow. Issue is exacerbated looking at anything past X distance magnifies. Like Valve has this fun little catapault game and your mostly looking in distance and since its kind of detailed you can see every pixel vividly. While the close quarters game that uses solid colors which is Budget Cuts you don't notice it after initial game start up.
Its hard to explain to someone who hasnt tried the Vive but the SDE can range from stopped noticing it past putting it on - to I can count the pixels and these are on games designed for VR/hudless.

I bought Virtual Desktop because I read good things and it IS a good piece of software but its not an OS designed for VR. Its your OS translated to a VR. It was so bad I thought I was having vision issues. Text is not really meant to be able to viewed on a VR screen yet. In job Simulator if you see a product/item/whatever it will say in HUGE font what it is and even then if you take a step back it gets very slightly blurry.

Again, I think its worth pursueing just cause there are games right NOW that can be great experiences on VR and the technology is still young and it will catch up in a generation possibly two.

I voted.

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#10
Posted 05/27/2016 05:44 AM   
Voted. I still have trepidation for VR but I still want to see it succeed.
Voted. I still have trepidation for VR but I still want to see it succeed.

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#11
Posted 05/27/2016 08:51 AM   
[quote="necropants"]Voted. I still have trepidation for VR but I still want to see it succeed.[/quote] My thoughts exactly. I voted.
necropants said:Voted. I still have trepidation for VR but I still want to see it succeed.


My thoughts exactly. I voted.

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#12
Posted 05/27/2016 12:21 PM   
bob3b pls keep working on 3d vision in VR, even though SDE limits the experience a lot, Vive + Rift gives a installed base of a few hundred thousand users that could suddently become 3D Vision users, even better since many of the early adopters are highly technical and could end supporting the experience with patches and what not. That would be huge for the technology and even make Nvidia react to this.
bob3b pls keep working on 3d vision in VR, even though SDE limits the experience a lot, Vive + Rift gives a installed base of a few hundred thousand users that could suddently become 3D Vision users, even better since many of the early adopters are highly technical and could end supporting the experience with patches and what not. That would be huge for the technology and even make Nvidia react to this.

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#13
Posted 05/27/2016 06:48 PM   
[quote="birthright"]bob3b pls keep working on 3d vision in VR, even though SDE limits the experience a lot, Vive + Rift gives a installed base of a few hundred thousand users that could suddently become 3D Vision users, even better since many of the early adopters are highly technical and could end supporting the experience with patches and what not. That would be huge for the technology and even make Nvidia react to this.[/quote] Yup, I plan to keep working on it. If I can crack a couple of hard technical problems like allowing SLI, it would certainly be viable. Outside of that, it might be a good introduction to 3D Vision for people without 3D Vision hardware. Presumably will still require 3D TV Play. BTW- It's already possible to play 3D games using BigScreen. Only runs for Win10 people: [url]http://steamcommunity.com/app/457550/discussions/0/357286663676439257/[/url]
birthright said:bob3b pls keep working on 3d vision in VR, even though SDE limits the experience a lot, Vive + Rift gives a installed base of a few hundred thousand users that could suddently become 3D Vision users, even better since many of the early adopters are highly technical and could end supporting the experience with patches and what not. That would be huge for the technology and even make Nvidia react to this.

Yup, I plan to keep working on it. If I can crack a couple of hard technical problems like allowing SLI, it would certainly be viable. Outside of that, it might be a good introduction to 3D Vision for people without 3D Vision hardware. Presumably will still require 3D TV Play.


BTW- It's already possible to play 3D games using BigScreen. Only runs for Win10 people:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/457550/discussions/0/357286663676439257/

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#14
Posted 05/28/2016 03:21 AM   
Only on SBS supported games though. Virtual Desktop also does.
Only on SBS supported games though. Virtual Desktop also does.

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#15
Posted 05/28/2016 03:54 AM   
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