Nvidia - An Option To Induce Interpolation?
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There are many users in the market for a 120Hz display, and not all looking necessarily for 3D. I personally am concerned of really two things.

First and foremost are frame rates. Obviously to put out 120fps on most modern games requires quite the beefiest of cards, as well as upgrading often to continue to produce such numbers, this can be quite costly.

Second are for movies, some people dislike it, but in my preference I enjoy it (especially for animated films & sometimes sports). Since native 120hz displays don't interpolate, movies wouldn't get the same effect that games would, and they would be displayed at their original frame rates.

The first point mentioned I'm certain would be much more agreed upon.

Since the 3D effect is possible through NVIDIA graphics cards, and not necessarily the display, would it also be possible for the graphics card to induce interpolation, as an option? Such a mechanism would allow the benefiting smoothness a 120Hz display would provide, with actually only requiring 60fps to get the desired effect, since the display can already output 120Hz? This would essentially allow the user to lock the game at 60fps and still get the smoothness a 120Hz screen can provide. Such a feature would of course ideally be for RPG or RTS games, where the slight lag wouldn't cause such issues.. Or better yet Nvidia could conjure a way where it doesn't even induce display lag.

I'm sure its possible, and will definitely appeal to many buyers of these graphics cards, not only for 3D, but the smoothness of a 120Hz display without needing to pump out 120fps. This would give buyers an extra feature to consider I'm sure, when deciding between AMD & NVIDIA as AMD also has no inherit interpolation abilities to take advantage of 120hz displays.

Thank you.
There are many users in the market for a 120Hz display, and not all looking necessarily for 3D. I personally am concerned of really two things.



First and foremost are frame rates. Obviously to put out 120fps on most modern games requires quite the beefiest of cards, as well as upgrading often to continue to produce such numbers, this can be quite costly.



Second are for movies, some people dislike it, but in my preference I enjoy it (especially for animated films & sometimes sports). Since native 120hz displays don't interpolate, movies wouldn't get the same effect that games would, and they would be displayed at their original frame rates.



The first point mentioned I'm certain would be much more agreed upon.



Since the 3D effect is possible through NVIDIA graphics cards, and not necessarily the display, would it also be possible for the graphics card to induce interpolation, as an option? Such a mechanism would allow the benefiting smoothness a 120Hz display would provide, with actually only requiring 60fps to get the desired effect, since the display can already output 120Hz? This would essentially allow the user to lock the game at 60fps and still get the smoothness a 120Hz screen can provide. Such a feature would of course ideally be for RPG or RTS games, where the slight lag wouldn't cause such issues.. Or better yet Nvidia could conjure a way where it doesn't even induce display lag.



I'm sure its possible, and will definitely appeal to many buyers of these graphics cards, not only for 3D, but the smoothness of a 120Hz display without needing to pump out 120fps. This would give buyers an extra feature to consider I'm sure, when deciding between AMD & NVIDIA as AMD also has no inherit interpolation abilities to take advantage of 120hz displays.



Thank you.

#1
Posted 04/04/2011 05:22 AM   
-motion interpolation would mess with 3d horribly, think about the shaking camera in games, that would kill it in itself, then the anomalies...
-motion interpolation would mess with 3d horribly, think about the shaking camera in games, that would kill it in itself, then the anomalies...

#2
Posted 04/04/2011 06:32 AM   
I think about that myself everytime I visit my parents and see how soft is everything in their new TV. If the core idea could be translated to games that would be a great improvement to the looks. But in games it's a great challenge as they must still feel responsive to user input and, of course, keep stereo-3D working.
I think about that myself everytime I visit my parents and see how soft is everything in their new TV. If the core idea could be translated to games that would be a great improvement to the looks. But in games it's a great challenge as they must still feel responsive to user input and, of course, keep stereo-3D working.

#3
Posted 04/04/2011 06:54 AM   
If you could scroll frame by frame , you would see that it has horrible anomalies, defeats the whole purpose of 3d.
If you could scroll frame by frame , you would see that it has horrible anomalies, defeats the whole purpose of 3d.

#4
Posted 04/04/2011 07:08 AM   
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='03 April 2011 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1301898768' post='1218887']
-motion interpolation would mess with 3d horribly, think about the shaking camera in games, that would kill it in itself, then the anomalies...
[/quote]

Oh you misunderstand, it's [u]not to be used during 3D[/u], not at all. It's purpose, as I'm presenting it, is to be used without playing in 3D. Normally to get the smooth effects of a 120Hz display, you would have to actually pump out 120fps. Not so with interpolation, 60fps would be all that's needed. Basically I (like many others) want the fluidity of 120fps, without having to push out 120fps.

This could also be used for movies, as some users (like myself) prefer the fluid effect of the 120Hz display for animated movies for example, or sports.

Again this is would be when not gaming in 3D. This tech could also be presumingly many times better than the effects a TV produces, as there's a powerful GPU pushing out these frames, with the promise of many optimizations, whether it be input lag, artifacts, etc..
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='03 April 2011 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1301898768' post='1218887']

-motion interpolation would mess with 3d horribly, think about the shaking camera in games, that would kill it in itself, then the anomalies...





Oh you misunderstand, it's not to be used during 3D, not at all. It's purpose, as I'm presenting it, is to be used without playing in 3D. Normally to get the smooth effects of a 120Hz display, you would have to actually pump out 120fps. Not so with interpolation, 60fps would be all that's needed. Basically I (like many others) want the fluidity of 120fps, without having to push out 120fps.



This could also be used for movies, as some users (like myself) prefer the fluid effect of the 120Hz display for animated movies for example, or sports.



Again this is would be when not gaming in 3D. This tech could also be presumingly many times better than the effects a TV produces, as there's a powerful GPU pushing out these frames, with the promise of many optimizations, whether it be input lag, artifacts, etc..

#5
Posted 04/04/2011 08:08 AM   
well, Im using 120hz motion interpolation with DLP its not bad. Better than hold lag for sure, lol.

(which is btw, is the same mechanism as the color breakup in DLP, hold lag = frame breakup , should be long gone, cause color breakup is gone now)
[img]http://scien.stanford.edu/pages/labsite/2010/psych221/projects/2010/LievenVerslegers/LCD_Motion_Blur_Lieven_Verslegers_files/image002.png[/img]
well, Im using 120hz motion interpolation with DLP its not bad. Better than hold lag for sure, lol.



(which is btw, is the same mechanism as the color breakup in DLP, hold lag = frame breakup , should be long gone, cause color breakup is gone now)

Image

#6
Posted 04/04/2011 08:12 AM   
hmmm... then it seems that yet again, "there is no free lunch"
hmmm... then it seems that yet again, "there is no free lunch"

#7
Posted 04/04/2011 08:30 AM   
I myself would like to see interpolation when looking at videos on my Computer, especially when looking ata movie originally filmed at 24fps. I think it would be a lovely addition. I think this will have to be done from a third party point of view though. Maybe the player of itself will need to take in the 24fps and output 120fps of interpolated data.
I myself would like to see interpolation when looking at videos on my Computer, especially when looking ata movie originally filmed at 24fps. I think it would be a lovely addition. I think this will have to be done from a third party point of view though. Maybe the player of itself will need to take in the 24fps and output 120fps of interpolated data.

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#8
Posted 04/04/2011 01:49 PM   
Scytus,
You're talking about anti-judder in movies and videos, not games, right? Anti-judder (called "Motionflow" by Sony) has been around for a few years.
Don't be mislead by marketing hype. These 120, 240 Hz displays are refering to vertical refresh rate, not frame rate. So there is no increase in smoothness when going from 60 to 120 to 240 Hz assuming anti-judder tech is absent.
Scytus,

You're talking about anti-judder in movies and videos, not games, right? Anti-judder (called "Motionflow" by Sony) has been around for a few years.

Don't be mislead by marketing hype. These 120, 240 Hz displays are refering to vertical refresh rate, not frame rate. So there is no increase in smoothness when going from 60 to 120 to 240 Hz assuming anti-judder tech is absent.

#9
Posted 04/04/2011 02:15 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='04 April 2011 - 10:15 AM' timestamp='1301926535' post='1219042']
Scytus,
You're talking about anti-judder in movies and videos, not games, right? Anti-judder (called "Motionflow" by Sony) has been around for a few years.
Don't be mislead by marketing hype. These 120, 240 Hz displays are refering to vertical refresh rate, not frame rate. So there is no increase in smoothness when going from 60 to 120 to 240 Hz assuming anti-judder tech is absent.
[/quote]

I tihnk he's refering to those tvs that take in 60HZ and outputs let's say 120 or 240hz in which they generate the intermediate frames using interpolation. For instance for a 60hz input and a 120hz output every two frames it receives from the source it calculates the intermediate frame and displays that in between the 2 original frames and visa versa. As mentioned it's good for viewing Videos but would put too much lag into gaming, even though it would look good. (I have tried it with my 3D tv and a game or two).
[quote name='roller11' date='04 April 2011 - 10:15 AM' timestamp='1301926535' post='1219042']

Scytus,

You're talking about anti-judder in movies and videos, not games, right? Anti-judder (called "Motionflow" by Sony) has been around for a few years.

Don't be mislead by marketing hype. These 120, 240 Hz displays are refering to vertical refresh rate, not frame rate. So there is no increase in smoothness when going from 60 to 120 to 240 Hz assuming anti-judder tech is absent.





I tihnk he's refering to those tvs that take in 60HZ and outputs let's say 120 or 240hz in which they generate the intermediate frames using interpolation. For instance for a 60hz input and a 120hz output every two frames it receives from the source it calculates the intermediate frame and displays that in between the 2 original frames and visa versa. As mentioned it's good for viewing Videos but would put too much lag into gaming, even though it would look good. (I have tried it with my 3D tv and a game or two).

Intel Core i9-9820x @ 3.30GHZ
32 gig Ram
2 EVGA RTX 2080 ti Gaming
3 X ASUS ROG SWIFT 27 144Hz G-SYNC Gaming 3D Monitor [PG278Q]
1 X ASUS VG278HE
Nvidia 3Dvision
Oculus Rift
HTC VIVE
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#10
Posted 04/04/2011 02:50 PM   
Right, this is known as "anti-judder". Sony/Samsung call this Motion Flow/Smooth Motion. My point is that marketing hype implies that anti-judder is automatic with increased refresh rate, it's not. 120/240 displays may or may not do anti-judder. Anti-judder is effected by creating extra interpolated frames, on the fly, that don't exist in the original program material. I love anti-judder, but it still has occasional "jerks" in the presentation. In other words, the implementation still needs improvement.
Right, this is known as "anti-judder". Sony/Samsung call this Motion Flow/Smooth Motion. My point is that marketing hype implies that anti-judder is automatic with increased refresh rate, it's not. 120/240 displays may or may not do anti-judder. Anti-judder is effected by creating extra interpolated frames, on the fly, that don't exist in the original program material. I love anti-judder, but it still has occasional "jerks" in the presentation. In other words, the implementation still needs improvement.

#11
Posted 04/04/2011 03:07 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='04 April 2011 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1301929620' post='1219068']
Right, this is known as "anti-judder". Sony/Samsung call this Motion Flow/Smooth Motion. My point is that marketing hype implies that anti-judder is automatic with increased refresh rate, it's not. 120/240 displays may or may not do anti-judder. Anti-judder is effected by creating extra interpolated frames, on the fly, that don't exist in the original program material. I love anti-judder, but it still has occasional "jerks" in the presentation. In other words, the implementation still needs improvement.
[/quote]

Yup we know. .well i know that having 120hz output doesn't mean that the anti-judder tech/hardware/software is actually available in that TV/Monitor. I guess what both Myself and Scytus would like to see is someway for Nvidia or someone to implement that via the Video card to give us that option when viewing movies with higher refresh rate monitors. I don't think it's gonna get done but I think it would be nice.
[quote name='roller11' date='04 April 2011 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1301929620' post='1219068']

Right, this is known as "anti-judder". Sony/Samsung call this Motion Flow/Smooth Motion. My point is that marketing hype implies that anti-judder is automatic with increased refresh rate, it's not. 120/240 displays may or may not do anti-judder. Anti-judder is effected by creating extra interpolated frames, on the fly, that don't exist in the original program material. I love anti-judder, but it still has occasional "jerks" in the presentation. In other words, the implementation still needs improvement.





Yup we know. .well i know that having 120hz output doesn't mean that the anti-judder tech/hardware/software is actually available in that TV/Monitor. I guess what both Myself and Scytus would like to see is someway for Nvidia or someone to implement that via the Video card to give us that option when viewing movies with higher refresh rate monitors. I don't think it's gonna get done but I think it would be nice.

Intel Core i9-9820x @ 3.30GHZ
32 gig Ram
2 EVGA RTX 2080 ti Gaming
3 X ASUS ROG SWIFT 27 144Hz G-SYNC Gaming 3D Monitor [PG278Q]
1 X ASUS VG278HE
Nvidia 3Dvision
Oculus Rift
HTC VIVE
Windows 10

#12
Posted 04/04/2011 04:18 PM   
It appears that some players already do this for PCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation
It appears that some players already do this for PCs.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

Intel Core i9-9820x @ 3.30GHZ
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3 X ASUS ROG SWIFT 27 144Hz G-SYNC Gaming 3D Monitor [PG278Q]
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Nvidia 3Dvision
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HTC VIVE
Windows 10

#13
Posted 04/04/2011 04:48 PM   
[quote name='msm903' date='04 April 2011 - 08:18 AM' timestamp='1301933897' post='1219102']
Yup we know. .well i know that having 120hz output doesn't mean that the anti-judder tech/hardware/software is actually available in that TV/Monitor. I guess what both Myself and Scytus would like to see is someway for Nvidia or someone to implement that via the Video card to give us that option when viewing movies with higher refresh rate monitors. I don't think it's gonna get done but I think it would be nice.
[/quote]

Exactly. Monitors are capable of 120Hz, but do not use interpolation since they rely on the computer to provide them the feed. HDTVs do this automatically, but computers are (and should be) more versatile. This is why right now we're relying on our graphics cards to give us 3D as well as (hopefully) interpolation.


[quote name='msm903' date='04 April 2011 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1301935707' post='1219116']
It appears that some players already do this for PCs.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation
[/quote]

Thats quite interesting, I'll give those a try. But my main concern was gaming, as I wouldn't want to be forced to pump out 120fps to get that fidelity when it can be done with less (RPG/RTS in mind, though I'm sure with optimizations input lag would be near unidentifiable)
[quote name='msm903' date='04 April 2011 - 08:18 AM' timestamp='1301933897' post='1219102']

Yup we know. .well i know that having 120hz output doesn't mean that the anti-judder tech/hardware/software is actually available in that TV/Monitor. I guess what both Myself and Scytus would like to see is someway for Nvidia or someone to implement that via the Video card to give us that option when viewing movies with higher refresh rate monitors. I don't think it's gonna get done but I think it would be nice.





Exactly. Monitors are capable of 120Hz, but do not use interpolation since they rely on the computer to provide them the feed. HDTVs do this automatically, but computers are (and should be) more versatile. This is why right now we're relying on our graphics cards to give us 3D as well as (hopefully) interpolation.





[quote name='msm903' date='04 April 2011 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1301935707' post='1219116']

It appears that some players already do this for PCs.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation





Thats quite interesting, I'll give those a try. But my main concern was gaming, as I wouldn't want to be forced to pump out 120fps to get that fidelity when it can be done with less (RPG/RTS in mind, though I'm sure with optimizations input lag would be near unidentifiable)

#14
Posted 04/05/2011 04:32 AM   
You need shutterglasses to cut down hold time, cause you can't interact with the backlight.
You need shutterglasses to cut down hold time, cause you can't interact with the backlight.

#15
Posted 04/05/2011 05:53 AM   
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