Yeah the issue is being overcomplicated. AndrewF has stated they designed 3DTV Play to support HDMI 1.4 framepacking modes because at the time the feature was released, HDMI 1.4 only required framepacking as the only mandatory 3D output. SBS was available at the time but not on all 3DTVs and not a mandatory part of the spec. This decision to only support HDMI 1.4 and framepacking was probably made for maximum coverage and ease of support. HDMI 1.4a added SBS and Top-Bottom as mandatory 3D modes to the spec, so Nvidia should react accordingly.
You may just need to wait for Nvidia to officially and unilaterally support HDMI 1.4a for 3DTV Play. Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, similar to 3D Vision Surround with Fermi. Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
Yeah the issue is being overcomplicated. AndrewF has stated they designed 3DTV Play to support HDMI 1.4 framepacking modes because at the time the feature was released, HDMI 1.4 only required framepacking as the only mandatory 3D output. SBS was available at the time but not on all 3DTVs and not a mandatory part of the spec. This decision to only support HDMI 1.4 and framepacking was probably made for maximum coverage and ease of support. HDMI 1.4a added SBS and Top-Bottom as mandatory 3D modes to the spec, so Nvidia should react accordingly.
You may just need to wait for Nvidia to officially and unilaterally support HDMI 1.4a for 3DTV Play. Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, similar to 3D Vision Surround with Fermi. Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
[quote name='roller11' date='04 January 2012 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1325698483' post='1351461']
Nvidia considers this a bonus, not a design blunder.[/quote]
Now that's funny! /haha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':haha:' />
[quote name='chiz' date='04 January 2012 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1325699524' post='1351476']
Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, .... Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
[/quote]
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
[quote name='chiz' date='04 January 2012 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1325699524' post='1351476']
Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, .... Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
[quote name='roller11' date='04 January 2012 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1325723239' post='1351647']
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
[/quote]
But that's the thing, you don't know its ready, because Nvidia hasn't taken the wraps off of it. The suspicion is that they do have a working build with SBS 3D internally but for whatever reasons, have not released it yet.
From a marketing standpoint however it makes perfect sense. Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review? http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/8
Companies love checkbox features, they help sell new products. Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
[quote name='roller11' date='04 January 2012 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1325723239' post='1351647']
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
But that's the thing, you don't know its ready, because Nvidia hasn't taken the wraps off of it. The suspicion is that they do have a working build with SBS 3D internally but for whatever reasons, have not released it yet.
From a marketing standpoint however it makes perfect sense. Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review? http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/8
Companies love checkbox features, they help sell new products. Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
[quote name='roller11' date='04 January 2012 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1325698483' post='1351461']
No you won't because you can't use 3D Vision on your panasonic 3DTV.
[/quote]
Yes, I meant 3dvision not in terms output of possibilities, but driver and title support. You don't have to be all high and mighty because you can use the roller mod and I can't, 3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to. (as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).
As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter. I am not a programmer by profession, so I don't know what kind of manpower is required to develop such a feature, but I doubt that it would take more than a couple of days work, week tops. As for the "no intervention" strategy, I am well aware of what Andrew said and I still think that it is complete nonsense, they aren't making our lives easier, but simply removing features to bring them back at a time of their choosing. I mean, just look at what happened with the legacy drivers - support for older dx versions, ogl and a bunch of different glasses types and outputs, and bam suddenly the driver is abandonware. Some time passes and Nvidia makes a revolutionary comeback with 3dvision, their own brand of glasses and most of the features of the previous drivers get tossed away. In this regard I agree with chez, they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
[quote name='roller11' date='04 January 2012 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1325698483' post='1351461']
No you won't because you can't use 3D Vision on your panasonic 3DTV.
Yes, I meant 3dvision not in terms output of possibilities, but driver and title support. You don't have to be all high and mighty because you can use the roller mod and I can't, 3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to. (as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).
As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter. I am not a programmer by profession, so I don't know what kind of manpower is required to develop such a feature, but I doubt that it would take more than a couple of days work, week tops. As for the "no intervention" strategy, I am well aware of what Andrew said and I still think that it is complete nonsense, they aren't making our lives easier, but simply removing features to bring them back at a time of their choosing. I mean, just look at what happened with the legacy drivers - support for older dx versions, ogl and a bunch of different glasses types and outputs, and bam suddenly the driver is abandonware. Some time passes and Nvidia makes a revolutionary comeback with 3dvision, their own brand of glasses and most of the features of the previous drivers get tossed away. In this regard I agree with chez, they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
[quote name='Artox' date='05 January 2012 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1325754276' post='1351829']
3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to.[/quote]
I was commenting on what you said, not what you meant. If "3D Vision" was a typo and you meant "3DTV Play", just say so. 3DTV Play and 3D Vision are completely difference programs, you can't use them interchangably as if they are the same thing.
[quote](as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).[/quote]
There is no proof of this, nobody has done a side by side compare of a samsung and panasonic both playing Portal 2 (or any other 3D game for that matter) with 3DTV Play, identical settings, and evaluated the ghosting.
[quote]As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter.[/quote]
Agreed, but that's not what you said. My "over thinking it" remark was your convoluted theories as to why SBS being denied to end users.
[quote] they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
[/quote]
Pure BS. The splash will be just as big or bigger if they release SBS now rather than later. Nvidia has absolutely nothing to gain by with holding a valuable product that is ready to go.
[quote name='Artox' date='05 January 2012 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1325754276' post='1351829']
3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to.
I was commenting on what you said, not what you meant. If "3D Vision" was a typo and you meant "3DTV Play", just say so. 3DTV Play and 3D Vision are completely difference programs, you can't use them interchangably as if they are the same thing.
(as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).
There is no proof of this, nobody has done a side by side compare of a samsung and panasonic both playing Portal 2 (or any other 3D game for that matter) with 3DTV Play, identical settings, and evaluated the ghosting.
As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter.
Agreed, but that's not what you said. My "over thinking it" remark was your convoluted theories as to why SBS being denied to end users.
they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
Pure BS. The splash will be just as big or bigger if they release SBS now rather than later. Nvidia has absolutely nothing to gain by with holding a valuable product that is ready to go.
[quote name='chiz' date='04 January 2012 - 08:03 PM' timestamp='1325732607' post='1351711']
Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review?[/quote]
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.
[quote]Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
[/quote]
Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
[quote name='chiz' date='04 January 2012 - 08:03 PM' timestamp='1325732607' post='1351711']
Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review?
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.
Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
Adding extra outputmodes in the stereodriver is probably features that requires less work of them all. It's all about business and decisions from "above". Shortterm and stupid decision in my opinion...
Nvidia supports hardware of their choice (displaymanufacturers gets dirty tongues and high animals of nvidia clean a**es = True?).
Let's just see what happens. The mess has to stop at some point. Either 3d dies or we may have a decent solution at last.
Adding extra outputmodes in the stereodriver is probably features that requires less work of them all. It's all about business and decisions from "above". Shortterm and stupid decision in my opinion...
Nvidia supports hardware of their choice (displaymanufacturers gets dirty tongues and high animals of nvidia clean a**es = True?).
Let's just see what happens. The mess has to stop at some point. Either 3d dies or we may have a decent solution at last.
[quote name='demowhc' date='13 August 2011 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1313246920' post='1278870']
Just wondering if there are plans to add 1080p/60hz side by side (960x1080) as a supported format to 3DTV play?
3DTV play is excellent, everything works very well etc. However not even after 2 days of use I have switched to Tri-Def for 1080p/60hz side by side support. It really does look better (~20-30% if I had to put a figure on it), as you can imagin mostly due to scaling on a 1080p display aswell as the extra pixel count. I dont understand why Nvidia has neglected this superior and most common display mode for 3DTV's??
[/quote]
There is NO NEED for 3dtv play for side by side.
On my samsung TV it automatically switches to 3D when the content is side by side, even if it comes from PC via HDMI.
You only need it if you have a 3d monitor and nvidia glasses.
[quote name='demowhc' date='13 August 2011 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1313246920' post='1278870']
Just wondering if there are plans to add 1080p/60hz side by side (960x1080) as a supported format to 3DTV play?
3DTV play is excellent, everything works very well etc. However not even after 2 days of use I have switched to Tri-Def for 1080p/60hz side by side support. It really does look better (~20-30% if I had to put a figure on it), as you can imagin mostly due to scaling on a 1080p display aswell as the extra pixel count. I dont understand why Nvidia has neglected this superior and most common display mode for 3DTV's??
There is NO NEED for 3dtv play for side by side.
On my samsung TV it automatically switches to 3D when the content is side by side, even if it comes from PC via HDMI.
You only need it if you have a 3d monitor and nvidia glasses.
[quote name='roller11' date='05 January 2012 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1325792411' post='1352055']
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.[/quote]
Right, you can believe what you want roller, that Nvidia is just withholding the technology to piss people like you off, or they're withholding it for stategic or marketing reasons. Which do you think it is?
[quote]Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
[/quote]
Again, there's already precedence showing all companies love to release new products with new checkbox features with new products. What do you think looks better in a checkbox table?
[b](*)[/b] HDMI 1.4a support will also be available for Fermi generation cards at a later date[/indent]
OR
[indent]Fermi
[list]
[*]3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
[*]HDMI 1.4a
[*]Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
[*]3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/list]
Kepler
[list]
[*]3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
[*]HDMI 1.4a
[*]Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
[*]3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/list][/indent]
You already acknowlege there's no technical reason Nvidia doesn't support SBS, AndrewF has already said they are looking at [i]when[/i] or more appropriately [i]how[/i] they are going to release the feature. Oh and look, more validation they have not released it because of strategic business reasons: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=220067
1080i @ 60Hz over HDMI in 3D Vision on passive eyeglasses, with a new 3D logo program called "Optimized for GeForce".
[quote name='roller11' date='05 January 2012 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1325792411' post='1352055']
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.
Right, you can believe what you want roller, that Nvidia is just withholding the technology to piss people like you off, or they're withholding it for stategic or marketing reasons. Which do you think it is?
Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
Again, there's already precedence showing all companies love to release new products with new checkbox features with new products. What do you think looks better in a checkbox table?
[indent]Fermi(*)
3DTV Play
HDMI 1.4
Framepacking
3D Modes: 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
Kepler
3DTV Play 2 (NEW)
HDMI 1.4a (NEW)
Framepacking, SBS(NEW), Top Bottom (NEW)
3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz (NEW), 1080i@50Hz (NEW), 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
(*) HDMI 1.4a support will also be available for Fermi generation cards at a later date[/indent]
OR
[indent]Fermi
3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
HDMI 1.4a
Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
Kepler
3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
HDMI 1.4a
Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/indent]
You already acknowlege there's no technical reason Nvidia doesn't support SBS, AndrewF has already said they are looking at when or more appropriately how they are going to release the feature. Oh and look, more validation they have not released it because of strategic business reasons: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=220067
1080i @ 60Hz over HDMI in 3D Vision on passive eyeglasses, with a new 3D logo program called "Optimized for GeForce".
[quote name='roller11' date='05 January 2012 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1325792411' post='1352055']
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.....
[/quote]
2010 I decide to buy a GTX295. After the installation I have noticed that SLI wont work with my 3DVision.
After waiting nearly a year playing with SLI deactivated, I decide to buy a GTX570 because 3DVision needs the extra power.
After 10 month or so nvidia finaly fixed the SLI support for the GTX295.
Now I am waiting since April 2011 with my 3DTV and a stack of games to play them with SBS(top/down) (720P is no alternative and 24Hz is too laggy).
So a main feature like SLI took 10 month and I am anxious how long it took to release SBS support.
Currently I am asking me, why I didnt bought an ATI with SBS support instead a GTX570.
Before all that I enjoyed playing with my Zalman display in native mode with 60Hz using the same technology as my 3DTV.
So it is nothing realy new for nvidia. But I cant sadly use nvidias zalman driver.
I wrote a little DX application and it took me 2 hours to implement SBS support with only a few lines of shader code.
But I am well aware that it tooks more than 2 hours to make a feature releaseable.
@AndrewF: May you tell us how the status quo for SBS support is?
Time to wake up and smell the coffe guys, this stuff 'SBS' and 'Digital 3D' , or whatever they call it is a half-baked train-wreck, just look at those pictures http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/investigation-active-3d-tvs-full-hd-3d-guaranteed-a1467.html , active heralded as the premier FullHD quality??? Must be joking, it's full of screendoor just like passive... FullHD? More like Full of fixed pattern screendoor noise... Face it, this stuff is incredibly bad, all they do is teasing, personally I went back to my hi-fi hobby long ago, that's decent stereo...
Time to wake up and smell the coffe guys, this stuff 'SBS' and 'Digital 3D' , or whatever they call it is a half-baked train-wreck, just look at those pictures http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/investigation-active-3d-tvs-full-hd-3d-guaranteed-a1467.html , active heralded as the premier FullHD quality??? Must be joking, it's full of screendoor just like passive... FullHD? More like Full of fixed pattern screendoor noise... Face it, this stuff is incredibly bad, all they do is teasing, personally I went back to my hi-fi hobby long ago, that's decent stereo...
Good thread, i was close to buying the 3Dplay until trying it out Crysis 2, Witcher 2, BF3 on a Sony 52HX903. After a few Hrs I figured our the only game that did work fine was Crysis 2 only if you dont play via 3D Play and use its own SBS ability, I'm able to set the 3D strength to 50% compared (and +1 on the Sony's 3D menu/SBS settings) to 2% in 1080p/24hz on 3Dplay to avoid double vision.
I tried to use the 3D converge settings to fix ghosting issues, which worked perfectly fine when i did try it a yr ago to fix ghosting on BF2 and Dragon Age but this time round the converge was locked and doesn't even show the green bar slider to show the amount i've applied.
Good thread, i was close to buying the 3Dplay until trying it out Crysis 2, Witcher 2, BF3 on a Sony 52HX903. After a few Hrs I figured our the only game that did work fine was Crysis 2 only if you dont play via 3D Play and use its own SBS ability, I'm able to set the 3D strength to 50% compared (and +1 on the Sony's 3D menu/SBS settings) to 2% in 1080p/24hz on 3Dplay to avoid double vision.
I tried to use the 3D converge settings to fix ghosting issues, which worked perfectly fine when i did try it a yr ago to fix ghosting on BF2 and Dragon Age but this time round the converge was locked and doesn't even show the green bar slider to show the amount i've applied.
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='06 January 2012 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1325847335' post='1352338']
Time to wake up and smell the coffe guys, this stuff 'SBS' and 'Digital 3D' , or whatever they call it is a half-baked train-wreck
[/quote]
And what should all of us who adopted 3dtvs early (not Samsung roller modders) do, simply give up and hot play in 1080p SBS, but instead settle for frame-packed 720p. You do realize that with SBS 1080p you do get 1036800 pixels (1920/2 x 1080) per eye and with 720p you get only 921600 (1280x720). Half-backed or not I think we deserve getting SBS.
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='06 January 2012 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1325847335' post='1352338']
Time to wake up and smell the coffe guys, this stuff 'SBS' and 'Digital 3D' , or whatever they call it is a half-baked train-wreck
And what should all of us who adopted 3dtvs early (not Samsung roller modders) do, simply give up and hot play in 1080p SBS, but instead settle for frame-packed 720p. You do realize that with SBS 1080p you do get 1036800 pixels (1920/2 x 1080) per eye and with 720p you get only 921600 (1280x720). Half-backed or not I think we deserve getting SBS.
You may just need to wait for Nvidia to officially and unilaterally support HDMI 1.4a for 3DTV Play. Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, similar to 3D Vision Surround with Fermi. Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
You may just need to wait for Nvidia to officially and unilaterally support HDMI 1.4a for 3DTV Play. Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, similar to 3D Vision Surround with Fermi. Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
Nvidia considers this a bonus, not a design blunder.[/quote]
Now that's funny!
Nvidia considers this a bonus, not a design blunder.
Now that's funny!
Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, .... Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
[/quote]
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
Who knows what the hold-up is, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a killer feature set of Kepler cards and then retro-fit support to older 1.4a capable cards, .... Much more impact from a marketing standpoint that way.
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
[/quote]
But that's the thing, you don't know its ready, because Nvidia hasn't taken the wraps off of it. The suspicion is that they do have a working build with SBS 3D internally but for whatever reasons, have not released it yet.
From a marketing standpoint however it makes perfect sense. Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review? http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/8
Companies love checkbox features, they help sell new products. Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
This makes no sense. Nvidia could make SBS available right now, and then still announce it as a feature of Kepler. It doesn't help Kepler or nvidia if nvidia denies SBS to current users if it's ready.
But that's the thing, you don't know its ready, because Nvidia hasn't taken the wraps off of it. The suspicion is that they do have a working build with SBS 3D internally but for whatever reasons, have not released it yet.
From a marketing standpoint however it makes perfect sense. Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review? http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/8
Companies love checkbox features, they help sell new products. Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
No you won't because you can't use 3D Vision on your panasonic 3DTV.
[/quote]
Yes, I meant 3dvision not in terms output of possibilities, but driver and title support. You don't have to be all high and mighty because you can use the roller mod and I can't, 3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to. (as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).
As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter. I am not a programmer by profession, so I don't know what kind of manpower is required to develop such a feature, but I doubt that it would take more than a couple of days work, week tops. As for the "no intervention" strategy, I am well aware of what Andrew said and I still think that it is complete nonsense, they aren't making our lives easier, but simply removing features to bring them back at a time of their choosing. I mean, just look at what happened with the legacy drivers - support for older dx versions, ogl and a bunch of different glasses types and outputs, and bam suddenly the driver is abandonware. Some time passes and Nvidia makes a revolutionary comeback with 3dvision, their own brand of glasses and most of the features of the previous drivers get tossed away. In this regard I agree with chez, they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
No you won't because you can't use 3D Vision on your panasonic 3DTV.
Yes, I meant 3dvision not in terms output of possibilities, but driver and title support. You don't have to be all high and mighty because you can use the roller mod and I can't, 3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to. (as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).
As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter. I am not a programmer by profession, so I don't know what kind of manpower is required to develop such a feature, but I doubt that it would take more than a couple of days work, week tops. As for the "no intervention" strategy, I am well aware of what Andrew said and I still think that it is complete nonsense, they aren't making our lives easier, but simply removing features to bring them back at a time of their choosing. I mean, just look at what happened with the legacy drivers - support for older dx versions, ogl and a bunch of different glasses types and outputs, and bam suddenly the driver is abandonware. Some time passes and Nvidia makes a revolutionary comeback with 3dvision, their own brand of glasses and most of the features of the previous drivers get tossed away. In this regard I agree with chez, they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
http://helixmod.blogspot.com/
3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to.[/quote]
I was commenting on what you said, not what you meant. If "3D Vision" was a typo and you meant "3DTV Play", just say so. 3DTV Play and 3D Vision are completely difference programs, you can't use them interchangably as if they are the same thing.
[quote](as a plus Panasonic remains the better brand of 2010 in terms PQ where ghosting and black levels are concerned).[/quote]
There is no proof of this, nobody has done a side by side compare of a samsung and panasonic both playing Portal 2 (or any other 3D game for that matter) with 3DTV Play, identical settings, and evaluated the ghosting.
[quote]As for marketing, I'm not over thinking anything - they either have no resources to implement SBS or no interest, and in my opinion it is the latter.[/quote]
Agreed, but that's not what you said. My "over thinking it" remark was your convoluted theories as to why SBS being denied to end users.
[quote] they do like publicity, they will wait with SBS in order to generate a bigger splash.
[/quote]
Pure BS. The splash will be just as big or bigger if they release SBS now rather than later. Nvidia has absolutely nothing to gain by with holding a valuable product that is ready to go.
3dtvplay still uses 3dvision as the driver for generating stereo and that's what I was referring to.
I was commenting on what you said, not what you meant. If "3D Vision" was a typo and you meant "3DTV Play", just say so. 3DTV Play and 3D Vision are completely difference programs, you can't use them interchangably as if they are the same thing.
There is no proof of this, nobody has done a side by side compare of a samsung and panasonic both playing Portal 2 (or any other 3D game for that matter) with 3DTV Play, identical settings, and evaluated the ghosting.
Agreed, but that's not what you said. My "over thinking it" remark was your convoluted theories as to why SBS being denied to end users.
Pure BS. The splash will be just as big or bigger if they release SBS now rather than later. Nvidia has absolutely nothing to gain by with holding a valuable product that is ready to go.
Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review?[/quote]
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.
[quote]Even if older cards will be able to support 1.4a 3D, it makes more sense to emphasize the difference with your new parts and not your old coincident with a new product launch.
[/quote]
Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
Why launch SBS and 1.4a 3DTV Play support ignominiously in a random driver update where you won't get a single bit of press on it, when you can instead bundle it as 3DTV Play 2 with Kepler launch and get perhaps an entire page of talking points like the one here for the 7970 review?
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.
Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
Nvidia supports hardware of their choice (displaymanufacturers gets dirty tongues and high animals of nvidia clean a**es = True?).
Let's just see what happens. The mess has to stop at some point. Either 3d dies or we may have a decent solution at last.
Nvidia supports hardware of their choice (displaymanufacturers gets dirty tongues and high animals of nvidia clean a**es = True?).
Let's just see what happens. The mess has to stop at some point. Either 3d dies or we may have a decent solution at last.
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
Just wondering if there are plans to add 1080p/60hz side by side (960x1080) as a supported format to 3DTV play?
3DTV play is excellent, everything works very well etc. However not even after 2 days of use I have switched to Tri-Def for 1080p/60hz side by side support. It really does look better (~20-30% if I had to put a figure on it), as you can imagin mostly due to scaling on a 1080p display aswell as the extra pixel count. I dont understand why Nvidia has neglected this superior and most common display mode for 3DTV's??
[/quote]
There is NO NEED for 3dtv play for side by side.
On my samsung TV it automatically switches to 3D when the content is side by side, even if it comes from PC via HDMI.
You only need it if you have a 3d monitor and nvidia glasses.
Just wondering if there are plans to add 1080p/60hz side by side (960x1080) as a supported format to 3DTV play?
3DTV play is excellent, everything works very well etc. However not even after 2 days of use I have switched to Tri-Def for 1080p/60hz side by side support. It really does look better (~20-30% if I had to put a figure on it), as you can imagin mostly due to scaling on a 1080p display aswell as the extra pixel count. I dont understand why Nvidia has neglected this superior and most common display mode for 3DTV's??
There is NO NEED for 3dtv play for side by side.
On my samsung TV it automatically switches to 3D when the content is side by side, even if it comes from PC via HDMI.
You only need it if you have a 3d monitor and nvidia glasses.
Benchmark your reflexes! *new*
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.[/quote]
Right, you can believe what you want roller, that Nvidia is just withholding the technology to piss people like you off, or they're withholding it for stategic or marketing reasons. Which do you think it is?
[quote]Makes no sense at all. Nvidia will still make a big deal out of Kepler/SBS mode whether SBS has been out for a period of time or not.
[/quote]
Again, there's already precedence showing all companies love to release new products with new checkbox features with new products. What do you think looks better in a checkbox table?
[indent]Fermi[b](*)[/b]
[list]
[*]3DTV Play
[*]HDMI 1.4
[*]Framepacking
[*]3D Modes: 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/list]
Kepler
[list]
[*]3DTV Play 2 (NEW)
[*]HDMI 1.4a (NEW)
[*]Framepacking, SBS(NEW), Top Bottom (NEW)
[*]3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz (NEW), 1080i@50Hz (NEW), 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/list]
[b](*)[/b] HDMI 1.4a support will also be available for Fermi generation cards at a later date[/indent]
OR
[indent]Fermi
[list]
[*]3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
[*]HDMI 1.4a
[*]Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
[*]3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/list]
Kepler
[list]
[*]3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
[*]HDMI 1.4a
[*]Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
[*]3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/list][/indent]
You already acknowlege there's no technical reason Nvidia doesn't support SBS, AndrewF has already said they are looking at [i]when[/i] or more appropriately [i]how[/i] they are going to release the feature. Oh and look, more validation they have not released it because of strategic business reasons: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=220067
1080i @ 60Hz over HDMI in 3D Vision on passive eyeglasses, with a new 3D logo program called "Optimized for GeForce".
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which is the fact that immediate press would be huge, nvidia correcting a mistake that has crippled 3D gaming for all non-samsung owners.
Right, you can believe what you want roller, that Nvidia is just withholding the technology to piss people like you off, or they're withholding it for stategic or marketing reasons. Which do you think it is?
Again, there's already precedence showing all companies love to release new products with new checkbox features with new products. What do you think looks better in a checkbox table?
[indent]Fermi(*)
Kepler
(*) HDMI 1.4a support will also be available for Fermi generation cards at a later date[/indent]
OR
[indent]Fermi
Kepler
- 3DTV Play and R310 driver or later
- HDMI 1.4a
- Framepacking, SBS, Top Bottom
- 3D Modes: 1080i@60Hz, 1080i@50Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz
[/indent]You already acknowlege there's no technical reason Nvidia doesn't support SBS, AndrewF has already said they are looking at when or more appropriately how they are going to release the feature. Oh and look, more validation they have not released it because of strategic business reasons: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=220067
1080i @ 60Hz over HDMI in 3D Vision on passive eyeglasses, with a new 3D logo program called "Optimized for GeForce".
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.....
[/quote]
WHAT?!?
I thought i held that prestigious title!
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.....
WHAT?!?
I thought i held that prestigious title!
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
After waiting nearly a year playing with SLI deactivated, I decide to buy a GTX570 because 3DVision needs the extra power.
After 10 month or so nvidia finaly fixed the SLI support for the GTX295.
Now I am waiting since April 2011 with my 3DTV and a stack of games to play them with SBS(top/down) (720P is no alternative and 24Hz is too laggy).
So a main feature like SLI took 10 month and I am anxious how long it took to release SBS support.
Currently I am asking me, why I didnt bought an ATI with SBS support instead a GTX570.
Before all that I enjoyed playing with my Zalman display in native mode with 60Hz using the same technology as my 3DTV.
So it is nothing realy new for nvidia. But I cant sadly use nvidias zalman driver.
I wrote a little DX application and it took me 2 hours to implement SBS support with only a few lines of shader code.
But I am well aware that it tooks more than 2 hours to make a feature releaseable.
@AndrewF: May you tell us how the status quo for SBS support is?
After waiting nearly a year playing with SLI deactivated, I decide to buy a GTX570 because 3DVision needs the extra power.
After 10 month or so nvidia finaly fixed the SLI support for the GTX295.
Now I am waiting since April 2011 with my 3DTV and a stack of games to play them with SBS(top/down) (720P is no alternative and 24Hz is too laggy).
So a main feature like SLI took 10 month and I am anxious how long it took to release SBS support.
Currently I am asking me, why I didnt bought an ATI with SBS support instead a GTX570.
Before all that I enjoyed playing with my Zalman display in native mode with 60Hz using the same technology as my 3DTV.
So it is nothing realy new for nvidia. But I cant sadly use nvidias zalman driver.
I wrote a little DX application and it took me 2 hours to implement SBS support with only a few lines of shader code.
But I am well aware that it tooks more than 2 hours to make a feature releaseable.
@AndrewF: May you tell us how the status quo for SBS support is?
I tried to use the 3D converge settings to fix ghosting issues, which worked perfectly fine when i did try it a yr ago to fix ghosting on BF2 and Dragon Age but this time round the converge was locked and doesn't even show the green bar slider to show the amount i've applied.
I tried to use the 3D converge settings to fix ghosting issues, which worked perfectly fine when i did try it a yr ago to fix ghosting on BF2 and Dragon Age but this time round the converge was locked and doesn't even show the green bar slider to show the amount i've applied.
Time to wake up and smell the coffe guys, this stuff 'SBS' and 'Digital 3D' , or whatever they call it is a half-baked train-wreck
[/quote]
And what should all of us who adopted 3dtvs early (not Samsung roller modders) do, simply give up and hot play in 1080p SBS, but instead settle for frame-packed 720p. You do realize that with SBS 1080p you do get 1036800 pixels (1920/2 x 1080) per eye and with 720p you get only 921600 (1280x720). Half-backed or not I think we deserve getting SBS.
Time to wake up and smell the coffe guys, this stuff 'SBS' and 'Digital 3D' , or whatever they call it is a half-baked train-wreck
And what should all of us who adopted 3dtvs early (not Samsung roller modders) do, simply give up and hot play in 1080p SBS, but instead settle for frame-packed 720p. You do realize that with SBS 1080p you do get 1036800 pixels (1920/2 x 1080) per eye and with 720p you get only 921600 (1280x720). Half-backed or not I think we deserve getting SBS.
http://helixmod.blogspot.com/