Stuttering/low FPS in 3dvision with only certain games
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[quote="bo3b"] As a data point, I ran Arkham City last night, and did not see any stutter or particularly low frame rates. This is notable, because we reported a bug with the Arkham games as stuttering past driver 337.88. I'm not certain, but this looks fixed.[/quote] Fixed for you and some others I guess, but not for me. I will concede that Arkham City is mostly ok without stutter just some odd framerate drops. However as you can see in my video Arkham Origins runs exactly like it did on my 660ti in Win 8.1 when running a driver higher than 337.88
bo3b said:
As a data point, I ran Arkham City last night, and did not see any stutter or particularly low frame rates. This is notable, because we reported a bug with the Arkham games as stuttering past driver 337.88. I'm not certain, but this looks fixed.


Fixed for you and some others I guess, but not for me. I will concede that Arkham City is mostly ok without stutter just some odd framerate drops. However as you can see in my video Arkham Origins runs exactly like it did on my 660ti in Win 8.1 when running a driver higher than 337.88

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#46
Posted 09/03/2016 10:47 PM   
OK, good data, but still, too many variables. These sorts of problems can't be solved if we can't narrow it down. An interesting test case there is the FC3 in DX11 CM. That is serious and notable stalls/stuttering there, in a game not noted for any problems. I don't think the DX9+3D case is very interesting here, that changes the entire rendering pipeline and adds the 3D Vision Automatic, so that's too many variables. As an experiment, try setting the CPU Affinity in the game. Run the game, alt-tab to Task Manager, and set the FC3 process to ONLY use 3 cpu cores. That might be too few, so trying 1,2,3,4,5 in turn would be informative. It looks like maybe the game is using 4 full cores. The distributed look you get of about 50% on each core is because Windows keeps pushing the process onto different cores. It has some random algorithm that distributes the work across cores, and Affinity limits its ability to move them around. You should see the Affinity cores at much higher usage, the normal cores, much lower.
OK, good data, but still, too many variables. These sorts of problems can't be solved if we can't narrow it down.

An interesting test case there is the FC3 in DX11 CM. That is serious and notable stalls/stuttering there, in a game not noted for any problems. I don't think the DX9+3D case is very interesting here, that changes the entire rendering pipeline and adds the 3D Vision Automatic, so that's too many variables.


As an experiment, try setting the CPU Affinity in the game. Run the game, alt-tab to Task Manager, and set the FC3 process to ONLY use 3 cpu cores.

That might be too few, so trying 1,2,3,4,5 in turn would be informative. It looks like maybe the game is using 4 full cores.

The distributed look you get of about 50% on each core is because Windows keeps pushing the process onto different cores. It has some random algorithm that distributes the work across cores, and Affinity limits its ability to move them around. You should see the Affinity cores at much higher usage, the normal cores, much lower.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#47
Posted 09/03/2016 10:55 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]OK, good data, but still, too many variables. These sorts of problems can't be solved if we can't narrow it down. An interesting test case there is the FC3 in DX11 CM. That is serious and notable stalls/stuttering there, in a game not noted for any problems. I don't think the DX9+3D case is very interesting here, that changes the entire rendering pipeline and adds the 3D Vision Automatic, so that's too many variables. As an experiment, try setting the CPU Affinity in the game. Run the game, alt-tab to Task Manager, and set the FC3 process to ONLY use 3 cpu cores. That might be too few, so trying 1,2,3,4,5 in turn would be informative. It looks like maybe the game is using 4 full cores. The distributed look you get of about 50% on each core is because Windows keeps pushing the process onto different cores. It has some random algorithm that distributes the work across cores, and Affinity limits its ability to move them around. You should see the Affinity cores at much higher usage, the normal cores, much lower.[/quote] I will definitely give it a try and get back to you. What about Arkham Origins? It has serious stutter and stall in 3d and another forum poster sammy123 [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4966069/#4966069[/url] said he has the same issue.
bo3b said:OK, good data, but still, too many variables. These sorts of problems can't be solved if we can't narrow it down.

An interesting test case there is the FC3 in DX11 CM. That is serious and notable stalls/stuttering there, in a game not noted for any problems. I don't think the DX9+3D case is very interesting here, that changes the entire rendering pipeline and adds the 3D Vision Automatic, so that's too many variables.


As an experiment, try setting the CPU Affinity in the game. Run the game, alt-tab to Task Manager, and set the FC3 process to ONLY use 3 cpu cores.

That might be too few, so trying 1,2,3,4,5 in turn would be informative. It looks like maybe the game is using 4 full cores.

The distributed look you get of about 50% on each core is because Windows keeps pushing the process onto different cores. It has some random algorithm that distributes the work across cores, and Affinity limits its ability to move them around. You should see the Affinity cores at much higher usage, the normal cores, much lower.


I will definitely give it a try and get back to you.

What about Arkham Origins? It has serious stutter and stall in 3d and another forum poster sammy123 https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4966069/#4966069 said he has the same issue.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#48
Posted 09/03/2016 11:07 PM   
[quote="terintamel"]Far Cry 3 - Here I get no stuttering with 3d Vision off (DX11), Moderate stuttering in DX9 3d Vision (Helixmod) and heavy stuttering in DX11 3D Comp. Mode[/quote] I took a look at this scenario on my system- and I get the same stutter that you do. Running DX11, with simply having 3D enabled in control panel, but not active, I get strong stutter. Framerate drops from 85 or so to 45, while running through grass. If I disable 3D altogether, it doesn't feel like stutter, but it definitely still has measurable frame rate drops running the same path. It looks to me like it's loading textures or maps or something the entire time, and that is slow enough that it causes frame drops. Not sure why having 3D enabled exacerbates this. For at least this game, I don't think your system is different than mine.
terintamel said:Far Cry 3 - Here I get no stuttering with 3d Vision off (DX11), Moderate stuttering in DX9 3d Vision (Helixmod) and heavy stuttering in DX11 3D Comp. Mode

I took a look at this scenario on my system- and I get the same stutter that you do.

Running DX11, with simply having 3D enabled in control panel, but not active, I get strong stutter. Framerate drops from 85 or so to 45, while running through grass.

If I disable 3D altogether, it doesn't feel like stutter, but it definitely still has measurable frame rate drops running the same path.

It looks to me like it's loading textures or maps or something the entire time, and that is slow enough that it causes frame drops. Not sure why having 3D enabled exacerbates this.

For at least this game, I don't think your system is different than mine.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#49
Posted 09/04/2016 01:35 AM   
[quote="chtiblue"]What is your 4k monitor?[/quote] A standard 60hz Acer Bk2L**... its a standard 4K computer monitor, not a TV etc. if Im correct in assuming thats what you mean. OP I hate to throw this in the bag as well but in your testing you might want to try restarting your computer for each game. Another thing I have noticed in the 2 months with my 10XX card is that occasionally it completely underperforms on the 3D Vision monitor to the point where I say wth and restart my computer, at which point I then get the FPS I expect. This never happens w/ the 4K monitor in full resolution so this leads me to believe that it is something about small resolutions. Not claiming to be an expert like the others but again this is an issue I have had w/ my 1080 that I never had w/ my previous cards (700/900 series). You may want to try restarting the machine w/ those games that are giving the issue once to see if it happens to go away just to rule it out.
chtiblue said:What is your 4k monitor?


A standard 60hz Acer Bk2L**... its a standard 4K computer monitor, not a TV etc. if Im correct in assuming thats what you mean.

OP I hate to throw this in the bag as well but in your testing you might want to try restarting your computer for each game.

Another thing I have noticed in the 2 months with my 10XX card is that occasionally it completely underperforms on the 3D Vision monitor to the point where I say wth and restart my computer, at which point I then get the FPS I expect. This never happens w/ the 4K monitor in full resolution so this leads me to believe that it is something about small resolutions.

Not claiming to be an expert like the others but again this is an issue I have had w/ my 1080 that I never had w/ my previous cards (700/900 series). You may want to try restarting the machine w/ those games that are giving the issue once to see if it happens to go away just to rule it out.

MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge AC
Intel i9-9900K @ 5.0 Ghz
32 GB Patriot Viper RAM @ 2666Mhz
ASUS 1080GTX Turbo

#50
Posted 09/04/2016 02:12 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]OK, good data, but still, too many variables. These sorts of problems can't be solved if we can't narrow it down. An interesting test case there is the FC3 in DX11 CM. That is serious and notable stalls/stuttering there, in a game not noted for any problems. I don't think the DX9+3D case is very interesting here, that changes the entire rendering pipeline and adds the 3D Vision Automatic, so that's too many variables. As an experiment, try setting the CPU Affinity in the game. Run the game, alt-tab to Task Manager, and set the FC3 process to ONLY use 3 cpu cores. That might be too few, so trying 1,2,3,4,5 in turn would be informative. It looks like maybe the game is using 4 full cores. The distributed look you get of about 50% on each core is because Windows keeps pushing the process onto different cores. It has some random algorithm that distributes the work across cores, and Affinity limits its ability to move them around. You should see the Affinity cores at much higher usage, the normal cores, much lower.[/quote] I assume you wanted me to test w/3d Vision disabled to then simulate running the game with different active cores to see if I could cause it to stutter? I loaded up FC3 in 2d mode and then ran it enabling one core at a time recording the avg framerate and seeing if there was any stutter. To my surprise I was not able to cause the game to stutter at all no matter how may cores I had active. Except the fps on 1 core was unusable. Core 1 - 5 fps 2 - 38 fps 3 - 69 fps 4 - 70 fps 5 - 80 fps 6 - 80 fps 7 - 82 fps 8 - 83 fps What does this tell you? It seems to tell me my FC3 stutter issues are not caused by a "weak" CPU. I then loaded the game up w/3d Vision enabled but off in game. I did the same tests and all disabling cores did was lower my fps it did not lessen or worsen the stutter. Tried 3d again and this time turned every setting to LOW with no Vsync, AA, and a resolution of 1440x900. Framerate greatly improved. Stutter just as bad.
bo3b said:OK, good data, but still, too many variables. These sorts of problems can't be solved if we can't narrow it down.

An interesting test case there is the FC3 in DX11 CM. That is serious and notable stalls/stuttering there, in a game not noted for any problems. I don't think the DX9+3D case is very interesting here, that changes the entire rendering pipeline and adds the 3D Vision Automatic, so that's too many variables.


As an experiment, try setting the CPU Affinity in the game. Run the game, alt-tab to Task Manager, and set the FC3 process to ONLY use 3 cpu cores.

That might be too few, so trying 1,2,3,4,5 in turn would be informative. It looks like maybe the game is using 4 full cores.

The distributed look you get of about 50% on each core is because Windows keeps pushing the process onto different cores. It has some random algorithm that distributes the work across cores, and Affinity limits its ability to move them around. You should see the Affinity cores at much higher usage, the normal cores, much lower.


I assume you wanted me to test w/3d Vision disabled to then simulate running the game with different active cores to see if I could cause it to stutter?

I loaded up FC3 in 2d mode and then ran it enabling one core at a time recording the avg framerate and seeing if there was any stutter. To my surprise I was not able to cause the game to stutter at all no matter how may cores I had active. Except the fps on 1 core was unusable.

Core
1 - 5 fps
2 - 38 fps
3 - 69 fps
4 - 70 fps
5 - 80 fps
6 - 80 fps
7 - 82 fps
8 - 83 fps

What does this tell you? It seems to tell me my FC3 stutter issues are not caused by a "weak" CPU.

I then loaded the game up w/3d Vision enabled but off in game. I did the same tests and all disabling cores did was lower my fps it did not lessen or worsen the stutter.

Tried 3d again and this time turned every setting to LOW with no Vsync, AA, and a resolution of 1440x900. Framerate greatly improved. Stutter just as bad.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#51
Posted 09/04/2016 06:10 PM   
Ran the same tests on Arkham Origins in 2d and even down to only 2 active Cores I could not reproduce the heavy stutter and low CPU/GPU usage that I got with all cores active in 3d.
Ran the same tests on Arkham Origins in 2d and even down to only 2 active Cores I could not reproduce the heavy stutter and low CPU/GPU usage that I got with all cores active in 3d.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#52
Posted 09/04/2016 06:20 PM   
I've noticed that 4 of the few I mentioned are stuttering in DX11 mode. Far Cry 3 does not stutter in dx9 mode, so I am going to test Arkham Origins in Dx9 to see if the stutter goes away. Not sure if I can run watchdogs in dx9.
I've noticed that 4 of the few I mentioned are stuttering in DX11 mode. Far Cry 3 does not stutter in dx9 mode, so I am going to test Arkham Origins in Dx9 to see if the stutter goes away. Not sure if I can run watchdogs in dx9.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#53
Posted 09/04/2016 11:00 PM   
@bo3b - I know it is not really apples to apples, but when I ran Arkham Origins in DX9 mode with 3dVision on the heavy stutter went away and I was left with relatively smooth gameplay when gliding. I then went back to DX11 and even when I turned off all DX11 features in game the stutter was horrible and just like my video. That is now 2 games where the DX11 3dVision code path introduces heavy stuttering. Again I know it is not proof, but it is an interesting coincidence.
@bo3b - I know it is not really apples to apples, but when I ran Arkham Origins in DX9 mode with 3dVision on the heavy stutter went away and I was left with relatively smooth gameplay when gliding. I then went back to DX11 and even when I turned off all DX11 features in game the stutter was horrible and just like my video.

That is now 2 games where the DX11 3dVision code path introduces heavy stuttering. Again I know it is not proof, but it is an interesting coincidence.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#54
Posted 09/05/2016 12:24 AM   
Not sure if it will make any difference, but Nvidia support did get back to me. See there response. Any suggestions of what and how I should respond? At the bottom you will see my latest response to them. Staff Account Kenny via Email 09/05/2016 07:30 AM Hello, Thank you for your submission. Kindly accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience you may have experienced. Please be assured that I will do my best to help you further or point you in the right direction. Possible Causes : As you rightly said it could be something related to the 3D driver as the issue only happens in NVIDIA 3DV mode. Steps we can try to isolate and troubleshoot the issue : Creating a profile in NVCPL (NVIDIA Control Panel): Open NVIDIA control panel (Right click on desktop and click NVIDIA control panel) > Go to Manage 3D settings under 3D settings > Select Program settings > Select the app/game from the dropdown menu > if it is not listed in the dropdown menu then click Add then select the respective .exe to the list > And now change these settings from Option 2. • Power management mode - Prefer maximum performance • Triple buffering - Off • Threaded optimisation - ON • Vertical Sync - off Apply these settings, refresh the Desktop several times, start the game play and check the performance. If issue persists, then to analyse the issue further and to assist you, please update me with the following details : 1. What's the make & model # of the 3DV Monitor you are using? 2. Was it working fine before? If so what was the last working driver version? 3. Do you have the latest firmware updated for the 3DV Monitor? 4. Total how many monitors are plugged in? 5. Could you check for the pending windows updates and install all of them? We look forward for your reply to assist you better. Best regards, Kenny NVIDIA Customer Care Response: I tried as you suggested on the game profiles. It did not make any difference with the performance issues. 1. Viewsonic 22" VX2268wm 2. Yes it was working fine on 660ti under Windows 8.1 on 337.88. Does not work right on Windows 10 x64 (clean install) on a GTX 1060 6GB running the latest drivers. I have not tested all drivers compatible with the 1060 but the issue is persistent on the last 2 drivers versions I did test. 372.70 and 372.54. 3. I went to Viewsonic's website and my monitor is not listed in the support section. Did a google search and would not find an updated driver. 4. One Monitor only 5. All windows Updates installed, except I have not install the Win 10 Anniversary Update because of reported issues by Nvidia 3dVision forum members. I recommend you see the videos I posted (user terintamel) on the 3dVision forums about this issue and I would also recommend you read the whole thread to get more exact details about this issue and what and how I tested. You will find some quite knowledgeable people on this forum who have very good information about 3dvision from the low level as they are responsible for many community made fixes to make games work in 3dVision (http://helixmod.blogspot.com/) [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4965878/#4965878[/url]
Not sure if it will make any difference, but Nvidia support did get back to me. See there response. Any suggestions of what and how I should respond? At the bottom you will see my latest response to them.

Staff Account Kenny via Email 09/05/2016 07:30 AM
Hello,

Thank you for your submission.

Kindly accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience you may have experienced. Please be assured that I will do my best to help you further or point you in the right direction.

Possible Causes : As you rightly said it could be something related to the 3D driver as the issue only happens in NVIDIA 3DV mode.
Steps we can try to isolate and troubleshoot the issue : Creating a profile in NVCPL (NVIDIA Control Panel):

Open NVIDIA control panel (Right click on desktop and click NVIDIA control panel) > Go to Manage 3D settings under 3D settings > Select Program settings > Select the app/game from the dropdown menu > if it is not listed in the dropdown menu then click Add then select the respective .exe to the list > And now change these settings from Option 2.
• Power management mode - Prefer maximum performance
• Triple buffering - Off
• Threaded optimisation - ON
• Vertical Sync - off

Apply these settings, refresh the Desktop several times, start the game play and check the performance.
If issue persists, then to analyse the issue further and to assist you, please update me with the following details :

1. What's the make & model # of the 3DV Monitor you are using?
2. Was it working fine before? If so what was the last working driver version?
3. Do you have the latest firmware updated for the 3DV Monitor?
4. Total how many monitors are plugged in?
5. Could you check for the pending windows updates and install all of them?

We look forward for your reply to assist you better.
Best regards,
Kenny
NVIDIA Customer Care

Response:
I tried as you suggested on the game profiles. It did not make any difference with the performance issues.

1. Viewsonic 22" VX2268wm
2. Yes it was working fine on 660ti under Windows 8.1 on 337.88. Does not work right on Windows 10 x64 (clean install) on a GTX 1060 6GB running the latest drivers. I have not tested all drivers compatible with the 1060 but the issue is persistent on the last 2 drivers versions I did test. 372.70 and 372.54.
3. I went to Viewsonic's website and my monitor is not listed in the support section. Did a google search and would not find an updated driver.
4. One Monitor only
5. All windows Updates installed, except I have not install the Win 10 Anniversary Update because of reported issues by Nvidia 3dVision forum members.

I recommend you see the videos I posted (user terintamel) on the 3dVision forums about this issue and I would also recommend you read the whole thread to get more exact details about this issue and what and how I tested. You will find some quite knowledgeable people on this forum who have very good information about 3dvision from the low level as they are responsible for many community made fixes to make games work in 3dVision (http://helixmod.blogspot.com/)
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4965878/#4965878

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#55
Posted 09/05/2016 02:50 PM   
[quote="terintamel"]@bo3b - I know it is not really apples to apples, but when I ran Arkham Origins in DX9 mode with 3dVision on the heavy stutter went away and I was left with relatively smooth gameplay when gliding. I then went back to DX11 and even when I turned off all DX11 features in game the stutter was horrible and just like my video. That is now 2 games where the DX11 3dVision code path introduces heavy stuttering. Again I know it is not proof, but it is an interesting coincidence. [/quote] Interesting result. That also gives you an option of playing stutter free, because the visual difference from dx9 to dx11 is essentially zero. I'm not sure how that happens, but that result is in keeping with the idea that it's a driver bug, specific to the DX11 code path + 3D Vision. If you can try other drivers, that might clarify where it was introduced. Also of note, I tried Arkham Origins on my system, and using your test case of the glide from that first tower, I don't see the stutter that you see. I do see a frame rate drop when landing and rolling, but not enough to really stutter. Drops from about 120 to 60 fps, using low settings on 1600x900. Benchmark with these settings, Min: 66 Avg: 191 I don't think the Enabled+2D case is a good test. The 3D Driver needs to be enabled in order to be able to do the Ctrl-T at any time, so I have no expectation that it would run at the same speed as regular 2D. Best to focus upon strictly 3D performance, as that is really our prime metric anyway.
terintamel said:@bo3b - I know it is not really apples to apples, but when I ran Arkham Origins in DX9 mode with 3dVision on the heavy stutter went away and I was left with relatively smooth gameplay when gliding. I then went back to DX11 and even when I turned off all DX11 features in game the stutter was horrible and just like my video.

That is now 2 games where the DX11 3dVision code path introduces heavy stuttering. Again I know it is not proof, but it is an interesting coincidence.

Interesting result. That also gives you an option of playing stutter free, because the visual difference from dx9 to dx11 is essentially zero.

I'm not sure how that happens, but that result is in keeping with the idea that it's a driver bug, specific to the DX11 code path + 3D Vision. If you can try other drivers, that might clarify where it was introduced.


Also of note, I tried Arkham Origins on my system, and using your test case of the glide from that first tower, I don't see the stutter that you see.

I do see a frame rate drop when landing and rolling, but not enough to really stutter. Drops from about 120 to 60 fps, using low settings on 1600x900. Benchmark with these settings, Min: 66 Avg: 191


I don't think the Enabled+2D case is a good test. The 3D Driver needs to be enabled in order to be able to do the Ctrl-T at any time, so I have no expectation that it would run at the same speed as regular 2D.

Best to focus upon strictly 3D performance, as that is really our prime metric anyway.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#56
Posted 09/06/2016 06:25 AM   
[quote="bo3b"]Interesting result. That also gives you an option of playing stutter free, because the visual difference from dx9 to dx11 is essentially zero. I'm not sure how that happens, but that result is in keeping with the idea that it's a driver bug, specific to the DX11 code path + 3D Vision. If you can try other drivers, that might clarify where it was introduced. Also of note, I tried Arkham Origins on my system, and using your test case of the glide from that first tower, I don't see the stutter that you see. I do see a frame rate drop when landing and rolling, but not enough to really stutter. Drops from about 120 to 60 fps, using low settings on 1600x900. Benchmark with these settings, Min: 66 Avg: 191 I don't think the Enabled+2D case is a good test. The 3D Driver needs to be enabled in order to be able to do the Ctrl-T at any time, so I have no expectation that it would run at the same speed as regular 2D. Best to focus upon strictly 3D performance, as that is really our prime metric anyway.[/quote] Looking at your sig it seems you are running Windows 7. Have you tested these games under windows 10? That could be another big point of difference where this driver bug is maybe a combination of something in the Nvidia drivers and the Windows 10 display or DirectX subsystems.
bo3b said:Interesting result. That also gives you an option of playing stutter free, because the visual difference from dx9 to dx11 is essentially zero.

I'm not sure how that happens, but that result is in keeping with the idea that it's a driver bug, specific to the DX11 code path + 3D Vision. If you can try other drivers, that might clarify where it was introduced.


Also of note, I tried Arkham Origins on my system, and using your test case of the glide from that first tower, I don't see the stutter that you see.

I do see a frame rate drop when landing and rolling, but not enough to really stutter. Drops from about 120 to 60 fps, using low settings on 1600x900. Benchmark with these settings, Min: 66 Avg: 191


I don't think the Enabled+2D case is a good test. The 3D Driver needs to be enabled in order to be able to do the Ctrl-T at any time, so I have no expectation that it would run at the same speed as regular 2D.

Best to focus upon strictly 3D performance, as that is really our prime metric anyway.


Looking at your sig it seems you are running Windows 7. Have you tested these games under windows 10? That could be another big point of difference where this driver bug is maybe a combination of something in the Nvidia drivers and the Windows 10 display or DirectX subsystems.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
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G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#57
Posted 09/06/2016 11:58 AM   
What gives me the most grief about this issue is that it is not because my system is necessarily under-powered in these games, but because of some other issue that the 3dvision Driver seems to either trigger or cause. I never have a top of the line system so I have always been comfortable with turning down settings/resolution in a game to get acceptable 3d performance. I played and completed far cry 3 in 3d (CM) on my 660ti in Windows 8.1 and was perfectly fine with a 28-42 average framerate. I would just tweak the graphic settings and turn down the resolution to achieve that rate. This issue however seems to not care about what resolution I run or what graphic settings I have enabled or disabled in game. I can live with a lower framerate, but I cannot live with constant stutter and hitching when neither my CPU or my GPU shows near max usage. I would not bet my life on it, but I do seem to recall I tried Arkham Origins again on my 660ti shortly after upgrading (downgrading?) to Windows 10 in June. As I was running 337.88 driver on Windows 8.1 I decided to try the game again with whatever was the latest driver for Win 10 at that time. I seem to recall the game was still a stuttering mess. At the time I decided to ignore it as others on the forums seemed to be OK on their 9 series cards. My thought was the bug might just be specific to the older 6 series cards and if it was Nvidia really had no incentive to fix it for this game. So what has changed on my system? 1. In June I went from Win 8.1 to Win 10 2. Upgraded my all system drivers that needed it to Win 10 versions 3. Upgraded the driver on my 660ti from 337.88 to latest nvidia driver at the time 368.39 I believe. 4. Upgraded in late August to a gtx 1060 and installed 370.xx drivers. After I upgrade either my CPU or GPU I always like to revisit older games to see how much of a performance difference the new CPU or GPU made. That is when I found the stuttering issue with some games. Those are a lot of changes and I will admit I did not test 3d performance in Far Cry 3, Watch Dogs and the Arkham Games after the move to Win 10. As I sold my 660ti to fund my upgrade to the 1060 I really cannot go back now. Could the issue be caused by some other device in my system? Yes it definitely could. However since the "trigger" is the enabling of Nvidia 3dVision I am heavily leaning towards the fix being with the graphics drivers and not some other system. Anyway my main point in posting here was to 1. See if anyone could point out some obvious setting I was missing that would cause this stutter. 2. Since this is an official Nvidia forum I was hoping for some official response. However after looking at other threads and comments it seems while Nvidia is happy to host this board they have no interest in contributing to it. What that leaves me with now is relying on official Nvidia support channels where my hope rests with Nvidia believing I have an issue, being able to reproduce the issue, and caring enough to fix the issue. If anyone else would like to suggest something else I might have missed please do, but it does seem that I have taken this as far as I can with unofficial community support. Thank you all for your input and especially bo3b for your helpful advice. P.S. I do find it an odd coincidence that the games I have stutter with are all older open world or semi open world games running DX11.
What gives me the most grief about this issue is that it is not because my system is necessarily under-powered in these games, but because of some other issue that the 3dvision Driver seems to either trigger or cause. I never have a top of the line system so I have always been comfortable with turning down settings/resolution in a game to get acceptable 3d performance.

I played and completed far cry 3 in 3d (CM) on my 660ti in Windows 8.1 and was perfectly fine with a 28-42 average framerate. I would just tweak the graphic settings and turn down the resolution to achieve that rate.

This issue however seems to not care about what resolution I run or what graphic settings I have enabled or disabled in game. I can live with a lower framerate, but I cannot live with constant stutter and hitching when neither my CPU or my GPU shows near max usage.

I would not bet my life on it, but I do seem to recall I tried Arkham Origins again on my 660ti shortly after upgrading (downgrading?) to Windows 10 in June. As I was running 337.88 driver on Windows 8.1 I decided to try the game again with whatever was the latest driver for Win 10 at that time. I seem to recall the game was still a stuttering mess. At the time I decided to ignore it as others on the forums seemed to be OK on their 9 series cards. My thought was the bug might just be specific to the older 6 series cards and if it was Nvidia really had no incentive to fix it for this game.

So what has changed on my system?
1. In June I went from Win 8.1 to Win 10
2. Upgraded my all system drivers that needed it to Win 10 versions
3. Upgraded the driver on my 660ti from 337.88 to latest nvidia driver at the time 368.39 I believe.
4. Upgraded in late August to a gtx 1060 and installed 370.xx drivers.

After I upgrade either my CPU or GPU I always like to revisit older games to see how much of a performance difference the new CPU or GPU made. That is when I found the stuttering issue with some games.

Those are a lot of changes and I will admit I did not test 3d performance in Far Cry 3, Watch Dogs and the Arkham Games after the move to Win 10. As I sold my 660ti to fund my upgrade to the 1060 I really cannot go back now.


Could the issue be caused by some other device in my system? Yes it definitely could.
However since the "trigger" is the enabling of Nvidia 3dVision I am heavily leaning towards the fix being with the graphics drivers and not some other system.


Anyway my main point in posting here was to

1. See if anyone could point out some obvious setting I was missing that would cause this stutter.
2. Since this is an official Nvidia forum I was hoping for some official response. However after looking at other threads and comments it seems while Nvidia is happy to host this board they have no interest in contributing to it.

What that leaves me with now is relying on official Nvidia support channels where my hope rests with Nvidia believing I have an issue, being able to reproduce the issue, and caring enough to fix the issue.

If anyone else would like to suggest something else I might have missed please do, but it does seem that I have taken this as far as I can with unofficial community support.

Thank you all for your input and especially bo3b for your helpful advice.

P.S. I do find it an odd coincidence that the games I have stutter with are all older open world or semi open world games running DX11.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#58
Posted 09/06/2016 01:06 PM   
I personally have never found any of the visual settings working properly. Only thing is the AntiAliasing that have given me frames or taken them. I think the situation is usually that the game runs as it runs, and you can choose if it looks good or crap. If it does not run, it does not run, no matter what are the settings, by this i meen there is like few frames difference. and if it runs it runs no matter the settings, only the AA making a noticable difference in framerate to better or worse, depending the on, or off.
I personally have never found any of the visual settings working properly.
Only thing is the AntiAliasing that have given me frames or taken them.
I think the situation is usually that the game runs as it runs, and you can choose
if it looks good or crap. If it does not run, it does not run, no matter what are the settings,
by this i meen there is like few frames difference. and if it runs it runs no matter the settings,
only the AA making a noticable difference in framerate to better or worse, depending the on, or off.

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#59
Posted 09/06/2016 03:33 PM   
terintamel It's a Windows 10 driver performance problem with Batman games. These games use to run smooth but the combination of the performance hit from rendering in stereo amplifies the frame drops to where it is too noticeable and unplayable. It's not only a 3d vision problem, because I use to be able to play it fine with Tridef 3D. It also use to run fine in 3d vision, both of those are more taxing to the computer but they won't run smooth anymore. Now, the only way to run it smooth is using Superdepth 3d listed in the other thread here. That is a compatibility mode feature but it does look impressive compared to what I've seen with other methods used in the past. It has real depth compared to the other fake 3d modes I've used. Filing a feedback form through GFE lower right hand corner will help get this solved with Nvidia.
terintamel

It's a Windows 10 driver performance problem with Batman games. These games use to run smooth but the combination of the performance hit from rendering in stereo amplifies the frame drops to where it is too noticeable and unplayable. It's not only a 3d vision problem, because I use to be able to play it fine with Tridef 3D. It also use to run fine in 3d vision, both of those are more taxing to the computer but they won't run smooth anymore. Now, the only way to run it smooth is using Superdepth 3d listed in the other thread here. That is a compatibility mode feature but it does look impressive compared to what I've seen with other methods used in the past. It has real depth compared to the other fake 3d modes I've used.

Filing a feedback form through GFE lower right hand corner will help get this solved with Nvidia.

3D Vision/TRIDEF User
SHIELD portable/tablet/tv

#60
Posted 09/06/2016 04:35 PM   
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