To Nvidia: OpenGL games in 3D
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[quote="eqzitara"]Quad buffering is the only form of opengl support which is supported nowadays as far as S3D rendering and thats for professional cards aka Quadro[...]Nvidia wont screw the quadro business over though regardless if possible.[/quote] Exactly, as Doom3 BFG doesn 't use any kind of wrapper. It's natively outputting quad buffered S3D and nvidia let kust kick the OGL S3D driver in. See ALL that's needed is to whitelist an application, which is why I think it should be very easy to add support for certain titles just on user's request and this won't screw Quadro sales by a bit. [quote="eqzitara"]Even IF nvidia offered Quad buffered s3d support on all geforce cards the amount of titles that would be gained can be counted on your hands. I have no idea how theyd look/rate..[/quote] Well, speaking for me, I'd be happy with a single one - D2X-XL and my personal rating is "gorgeous" ;) Also, I'll get a RIFT just for that title...and with native RIFT support announced for more and more titles (which also means native engine S3D rendering) nvidias solution will be Doomed3 anyway if they don't move with the flow. The one and only new 3Dvision ready display released this year has been the ASUS VG278HE and this will sell more because of it's 144Hz feature than the support for 3Dvision. Everything else new is generic S3D and 3dvision ready monitors get every harder to come by - just guess why... [quote="alex1g"] Descent 1 and 2 - Works with 3D Vision [/quote] so how if they don't even support DirectX? Which remembers me of, Descent3 (beside 3dfx and OGL)actually [i]is[/i] using DirectX, once even was on the supported list, still it won't work under 3Dvision...
eqzitara said:Quad buffering is the only form of opengl support which is supported nowadays as far as S3D rendering and thats for professional cards aka Quadro[...]Nvidia wont screw the quadro business over though regardless if possible.


Exactly, as Doom3 BFG doesn 't use any kind of wrapper. It's natively outputting quad buffered S3D and nvidia let kust kick the OGL S3D driver in. See ALL that's needed is to whitelist an application, which is why I think it should be very easy to add support for certain titles just on user's request and this won't screw Quadro sales by a bit.

eqzitara said:Even IF nvidia offered Quad buffered s3d support on all geforce cards the amount of titles that would be gained can be counted on your hands. I have no idea how theyd look/rate..


Well, speaking for me, I'd be happy with a single one - D2X-XL and my personal rating is "gorgeous" ;) Also, I'll get a RIFT just for that title...and with native RIFT support announced for more and more titles (which also means native engine S3D rendering) nvidias solution will be Doomed3 anyway if they don't move with the flow.

The one and only new 3Dvision ready display released this year has been the ASUS VG278HE and this will sell more because of it's 144Hz feature than the support for 3Dvision. Everything else new is generic S3D and 3dvision ready monitors get every harder to come by -
just guess why...

alex1g said:
Descent 1 and 2 - Works with 3D Vision

so how if they don't even support DirectX?

Which remembers me of, Descent3 (beside 3dfx and OGL)actually is using DirectX, once even was on the supported list, still it won't work under 3Dvision...

#16
Posted 11/03/2012 05:19 PM   
[quote="quadrophoeniX"] Descent 1 and 2 - Works with 3D Vision so how if they don't even support DirectX? [/quote] http://3dsolutiongaming.com/az_articles_v4/Descent2/descent2.html http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2067 Minecraft I really think people who want opengl support really need to do some research and actually try the games in opengl whether on old cards/gldirect. The people who feel its really not necessary are the ones whove tried it. We were just like you except we went the extra mile and actual went to get them to work. The only people who truly think full opengl support is necessary on this thread are the people who havent tried it in any shape or form.
quadrophoeniX said:
Descent 1 and 2 - Works with 3D Vision

so how if they don't even support DirectX?

http://3dsolutiongaming.com/az_articles_v4/Descent2/descent2.html

http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2067
Minecraft


I really think people who want opengl support really need to do some research and actually try the games in opengl whether on old cards/gldirect. The people who feel its really not necessary are the ones whove tried it. We were just like you except we went the extra mile and actual went to get them to work. The only people who truly think full opengl support is necessary on this thread are the people who havent tried it in any shape or form.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#17
Posted 11/03/2012 06:34 PM   
Double post
Double post

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#18
Posted 11/03/2012 06:34 PM   
[quote="eqzitara"] I really think people who want opengl support really need to do some research and actually try the games in opengl whether on old cards/gldirect.[/quote] Soory to dissapoint you... tried gldirect and Titanium GL which is the better wrapper IMHO. Both do NOT work on D2X-XL - the reason might be that it's using much more advanced OGL features than D2rebirth... btw as nGlide won't work for Descent III... [quote="eqzitara"]The people who feel its really not necessary are the ones whove tried it. [/quote] ??? as said I tried... [quote="eqzitara"]We were just like you except we went the extra mile and actual went to get them to work. The only people who truly think full opengl support is necessary on this thread are the people who havent tried it in any shape or form.[/quote] again sorry to dissapoint you. And if throwing an extra Quadro card into one's machine and swap DVI cables to switch between DX on GF580 and Quadro600 for OGL is not to be considered an "extra mile" I don't know...
eqzitara said:
I really think people who want opengl support really need to do some research and actually try the games in opengl whether on old cards/gldirect.

Soory to dissapoint you... tried gldirect and Titanium GL which is the better wrapper IMHO. Both do NOT work on D2X-XL - the reason might be that it's using much more advanced OGL features than D2rebirth... btw as nGlide won't work for Descent III...

eqzitara said:The people who feel its really not necessary are the ones whove tried it.

??? as said I tried...

eqzitara said:We were just like you except we went the extra mile and actual went to get them to work. The only people who truly think full opengl support is necessary on this thread are the people who havent tried it in any shape or form.

again sorry to dissapoint you. And if throwing an extra Quadro card into one's machine and swap DVI cables to switch between DX on GF580 and Quadro600 for OGL is not to be considered an "extra mile" I don't know...

#19
Posted 11/03/2012 07:33 PM   
NVIDIA shot down opengl support. Like chiz said, not many people were interested. so this whole subject is kind of moot. The argument made for opengl being supported is it would be popular. While in reality many games are playable but no one cares. You two dont want Opengl support, you guys want support of 1 MOD. Then you call nvidia greedy(not saying they arent, but are you?). Even if it was a switch(its not). It would take tens of thousands of dollars... interfaceing, patches, languages, building it into the drivers, etc. Not to mention business lost. Only way logically I can see s3d support D2X-XL is the developer/maybe modder contacted ID. Will it happen, probably not implementation will not be as easy as you think. ID worked with NVIDIA to get it to work, then they work hard to get it to render properly. They did not flick a switch. I am so confused why even if the mod was supported that you feel it will render perfectly in 3D. 3D Vision has ALOT more misses then hits. Same will be true about opengl rendering. Goodluck with getting support but NVIDIA said its not gonna happen. Honestly though Id really prefer them to focus on features that were promised like side by side support. Check ebay every once in a while for pro kits and they go cheap. Also on newegg for 300. If you already have a Quadro Card like you say. Its not a huge leap if you can find one used. D2X-XL Has anyone even tested quadbuffered opengl 3d on a quadro card? The developer says the feature isnt even fully tested. I think a good solution is to crowd source funding to get it working on the rift though IMO. I imagine ID would be rather helpful.
NVIDIA shot down opengl support. Like chiz said, not many people were interested. so this whole subject is kind of moot.
The argument made for opengl being supported is it would be popular. While in reality many games are playable but no one cares. You two dont want Opengl support, you guys want support of 1 MOD. Then you call nvidia greedy(not saying they arent, but are you?). Even if it was a switch(its not). It would take tens of thousands of dollars... interfaceing, patches, languages, building it into the drivers, etc. Not to mention business lost. Only way logically I can see s3d support D2X-XL is the developer/maybe modder contacted ID.
Will it happen, probably not implementation will not be as easy as you think. ID worked with NVIDIA to get it to work, then they work hard to get it to render properly. They did not flick a switch.
I am so confused why even if the mod was supported that you feel it will render perfectly in 3D. 3D Vision has ALOT more misses then hits. Same will be true about opengl rendering.

Goodluck with getting support but NVIDIA said its not gonna happen. Honestly though Id really prefer them to focus on features that were promised like side by side support.

Check ebay every once in a while for pro kits and they go cheap. Also on newegg for 300. If you already have a Quadro Card like you say. Its not a huge leap if you can find one used.


D2X-XL
Has anyone even tested quadbuffered opengl 3d on a quadro card? The developer says the feature isnt even fully tested. I think a good solution is to crowd source funding to get it working on the rift though IMO. I imagine ID would be rather helpful.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#20
Posted 11/03/2012 07:42 PM   
[quote="eqzitara"] http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2067 Minecraft I really think people who want opengl support really need to do some research[/quote] Pretty ironic coming from someone who clearly has no firsthand knowledge of anything they are saying. If you had ever tried Minecraft using that wrapper that is nearly 2 years old, you would know that it worked inadequately back when it was released, and isn't compatible with modern versions of minecraft. Again, we want the currently existing quad-buffered mode enabled for OpenGL so that games can implement their own stereoscopic support. Absolutely 0 work for nvidia. We don't want a driver-injection method like the directx driver. If you don't care about OpenGL 3D, and you are going to continue rehash the same repeatedly disproven argument that "tens of thousands of dollars" need to be spent to disable DRM for an already-existing perfectly-working feature, then why on earth are you in this thread?
eqzitara said:

http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2067
Minecraft

I really think people who want opengl support really need to do some research


Pretty ironic coming from someone who clearly has no firsthand knowledge of anything they are saying. If you had ever tried Minecraft using that wrapper that is nearly 2 years old, you would know that it worked inadequately back when it was released, and isn't compatible with modern versions of minecraft.

Again, we want the currently existing quad-buffered mode enabled for OpenGL so that games can implement their own stereoscopic support. Absolutely 0 work for nvidia. We don't want a driver-injection method like the directx driver.

If you don't care about OpenGL 3D, and you are going to continue rehash the same repeatedly disproven argument that "tens of thousands of dollars" need to be spent to disable DRM for an already-existing perfectly-working feature, then why on earth are you in this thread?

#21
Posted 11/03/2012 10:40 PM   
Well what do you know. Minecraft is not working in 3D vision. Seems the latest patch screwed everything up. Oh well. I could revert to the previous version but since I don't play much, I'll stop playing it till they have 3D support. I don't play non 3D games anymore.
Well what do you know. Minecraft is not working in 3D vision. Seems the latest patch screwed everything up. Oh well. I could revert to the previous version but since I don't play much, I'll stop playing it till they have 3D support. I don't play non 3D games anymore.

#22
Posted 11/04/2012 12:15 AM   
[quote="eqzitara"]NVIDIA shot down opengl support. Like chiz said, not many people were interested. so this whole subject is kind of moot.[/quote] I understand so, and while I would agree that thgis in fact and unfortunately probably [i]is[/i] kind of moot, I also clearly doubt that nvidia shot it down because nobody was interested they rather shot it down like the support of other output modes and support of Glide for economical reasons - which is their right and I never used the term "greedy". So, just to remind you: the driver code has not changed too much and most of the work still present up today was done by Metabyte previous to nvidia buying them out. [quote="eqzitara"]You two dont want Opengl support, you guys want support of 1 MOD. [/quote] No, I absolutely DO want general OpenGL support for games, I just put most inerest in one particular app. Also, I do accept their policy to keep pro apps linited to pro cards. [quote="eqzitara"]Even if it was a switch(its not). It would take tens of thousands of dollars... interfaceing, patches, languages, building it into the drivers, etc. [...] ID worked with NVIDIA to get it to work, then they work hard to get it to render properly.[/quote] Yes, it is a sort of switch. It detects the doom executable and enables 3Dvision fpr OGL. Please take your time to even look at it: Doom BFG does NOT offer any options that you would have in normal 3Dvision titles. Why? because all the magic is done within the game engine itself. It renders both parallax views to the quad buffer and calls them alternating out of that buffer. So that you can make your ajustments right within the game's menus. All that ID worked out together with nvidia is to trigger S3D mode for their exe. Detect "good" app -> flick on the emitter -> done. Period. No "tens of thousands of dollars" work for nvidia (as with every qb OGL app, btw) And also let me tell you: even on DX titles nvidias driver does nothing to change any of the rendering. There is nothing the 3Dvision software part can or will do to improve the experience if the game code renders shaders etc on the wrong plane depth. It's all up to the programmers of the game engine. Just tweak convergence, interaxial and screen depth range a bit, that's all. Again far from being "tens of thousands of dollars" work... [quote="eqzitara"] I am so confused why even if the mod was supported that you feel it will render perfectly in 3D. [/quote] maybe ... because ... I know? ;) [quote="eqzitara"]Goodluck with getting support but NVIDIA said its not gonna happen. Honestly though Id really prefer them to focus on features that were promised like side by side support.[/quote] That's what I fear. Oh, and to remind you that OGL support actually [i]was[/i] on the "promise list" when I got my glasses ;) [quote="eqzitara"] Check ebay every once in a while for pro kits and they go cheap. Also on newegg for 300.[/quote] Just to give you some more technical insight on that technology you apparently missed some detail: Pro and consumer variants of the 3Dvision glasses ONLY differ in the transmission mode for the signal: RF on Pros vs. IR on consumer - that's it. As a logical result you DO NOT need a Pro kit to experience OGL in S3D on a quadro card, the standard IR glasses will do fine and I would take 3Dvision 2 glasses anytime over the pros that btw. run you 600,- not 300,- (the offerings you refer to are just additional glasses which are useless if you dont have the RF transmitter). [quote="eqzitara"] D2Rebirth [...]D2X-XL Has anyone even tested quadbuffered opengl 3d on a quadro card? The developer says the feature isnt even fully tested. [/quote] With due respect D2Xrebirth cannot compete with D2X-XL when it comes to eye candy, ther are no additional effects or shader implementation whatsoever. So to repeat: I have a Quadro600 that I am using with my 1st gen 3Dvision glasses for D2X-XL. It runs [i]absolutely fine[/i] with some in game tweaking - better than some "excellent" rated DX titles. The only reason Diedel aka karx11erx could not test the implemetation is due to the lack of stereoscopic hardware... I also do own a GF580 for modern and more demanding games. So every time I want to run DX I have to swap cables which - knowing they could easily just enable suport for everything not pro - sucks. I even would be absolutely content if the quadro card would act as a "dongle" and OGL stereo could be processed by my GF580. Still I agree with you it's probably not about to happen, which is why I will get the RIFT anyway and at some point then turn my back to nvidia cards as well...
eqzitara said:NVIDIA shot down opengl support. Like chiz said, not many people were interested. so this whole subject is kind of moot.

I understand so, and while I would agree that thgis in fact and unfortunately probably is kind of moot, I also clearly doubt that nvidia shot it down because nobody was interested they rather shot it down like the support of other output modes and support of Glide for economical reasons - which is their right and I never used the term "greedy". So, just to remind you: the driver code has not changed too much and most of the work still present up today was done by Metabyte previous to nvidia buying them out.

eqzitara said:You two dont want Opengl support, you guys want support of 1 MOD.

No, I absolutely DO want general OpenGL support for games, I just put most inerest in one particular app. Also, I do accept their policy to keep pro apps linited to pro cards.

eqzitara said:Even if it was a switch(its not). It would take tens of thousands of dollars... interfaceing, patches, languages, building it into the drivers, etc. [...] ID worked with NVIDIA to get it to work, then they work hard to get it to render properly.

Yes, it is a sort of switch. It detects the doom executable and enables 3Dvision fpr OGL. Please take your time to even look at it: Doom BFG does NOT offer any options that you would have in normal 3Dvision titles. Why? because all the magic is done within the game engine itself. It renders both parallax views to the quad buffer and calls them alternating out of that buffer. So that you can make your ajustments right within the game's menus. All that ID worked out together with nvidia is to trigger S3D mode for their exe. Detect "good" app -> flick on the emitter -> done. Period. No "tens of thousands of dollars" work for nvidia (as with every qb OGL app, btw)

And also let me tell you: even on DX titles nvidias driver does nothing to change any of the rendering. There is nothing the 3Dvision software part can or will do to improve the experience if the game code renders shaders etc on the wrong plane depth. It's all up to the programmers of the game engine. Just tweak convergence, interaxial and screen depth range a bit, that's all. Again far from being "tens of thousands of dollars" work...

eqzitara said:
I am so confused why even if the mod was supported that you feel it will render perfectly in 3D.


maybe ... because ... I know? ;)

eqzitara said:Goodluck with getting support but NVIDIA said its not gonna happen. Honestly though Id really prefer them to focus on features that were promised like side by side support.

That's what I fear. Oh, and to remind you that OGL support actually was on the "promise list" when I got my glasses ;)

eqzitara said:
Check ebay every once in a while for pro kits and they go cheap. Also on newegg for 300.

Just to give you some more technical insight on that technology you apparently missed some detail: Pro and consumer variants of the 3Dvision glasses ONLY differ in the transmission mode for the signal: RF on Pros vs. IR on consumer - that's it. As a logical result you DO NOT need a Pro kit to experience OGL in S3D on a quadro card, the standard IR glasses will do fine and I would take 3Dvision 2 glasses anytime over the pros that btw. run you 600,- not 300,- (the offerings you refer to are just additional glasses which are useless if you dont have the RF transmitter).

eqzitara said:
D2Rebirth [...]D2X-XL
Has anyone even tested quadbuffered opengl 3d on a quadro card? The developer says the feature isnt even fully tested.

With due respect D2Xrebirth cannot compete with D2X-XL when it comes to eye candy, ther are no additional effects or shader implementation whatsoever.
So to repeat: I have a Quadro600 that I am using with my 1st gen 3Dvision glasses for D2X-XL.
It runs absolutely fine with some in game tweaking - better than some "excellent" rated DX titles. The only reason Diedel aka karx11erx could not test the implemetation is due to the lack of stereoscopic hardware...
I also do own a GF580 for modern and more demanding games. So every time I want to run DX I have to swap cables which - knowing they could easily just enable suport for everything not pro - sucks.
I even would be absolutely content if the quadro card would act as a "dongle" and OGL stereo could be processed by my GF580. Still I agree with you it's probably not about to happen, which is why I will get the RIFT anyway and at some point then turn my back to nvidia cards as well...

#23
Posted 11/04/2012 12:47 AM   
@quadrophoenix I apoligize, I didnt realize that the game already allowed adjusments in-game and it was actually tested. That certainly explains the enthusiasm. You guys are asking for something much more simple then what the others want(what they want wont happen). I know they want to keep Quadbuffered OGL apps from working with 3d vision(obviously), but games they may let slide pending some signatures/forms. Its a bit rare to hear of a game that actually supports that since the developer has to go out of their way to do that. That information wasnt clear to me. I thought you guys were asking for a "engine" like 3d vision where it would inter phase with the two images, not a game with a native renderer. I never imagined a game especially a mod would support that let alone on OGL .I dont think any game used a native renderer to support S3D(non anaglyph) that wasnt "sponsored", besides doom 3 bfg. You guys just need the app signing information that nvidia gave to Id to allow it to interface with 3d vision/nvapi. There is a chance NVIDIA will help with that. Check your pms I have some contact information, though its probably best if you have the actual developer of the mod do so. I actually havent messed with quadro(no need) and always assumed they needed to use a pro. I blame the advertising. Probably part of the plan to net them a few hundred extra bucks.
@quadrophoenix
I apoligize, I didnt realize that the game already allowed adjusments in-game and it was actually tested. That certainly explains the enthusiasm. You guys are asking for something much more simple then what the others want(what they want wont happen). I know they want to keep Quadbuffered OGL apps from working with 3d vision(obviously), but games they may let slide pending some signatures/forms. Its a bit rare to hear of a game that actually supports that since the developer has to go out of their way to do that. That information wasnt clear to me. I thought you guys were asking for a "engine" like 3d vision where it would inter phase with the two images, not a game with a native renderer. I never imagined a game especially a mod would support that let alone on OGL .I dont think any game used a native renderer to support S3D(non anaglyph) that wasnt "sponsored", besides doom 3 bfg. You guys just need the app signing information that nvidia gave to Id to allow it to interface with 3d vision/nvapi. There is a chance NVIDIA will help with that. Check your pms I have some contact information, though its probably best if you have the actual developer of the mod do so.

I actually havent messed with quadro(no need) and always assumed they needed to use a pro. I blame the advertising. Probably part of the plan to net them a few hundred extra bucks.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#24
Posted 11/04/2012 01:23 AM   
[quote="eqzitara"]@quadrophoenix Still I agree with you it's probably not about to happen, which is why I will get the RIFT anyway and at some point then turn my back to nvidia cards as well... [/quote] Bingo. A DDD employee already commented on the MTBS3D forums that they've ordered a Rift and are looking into supporting it in Tridef, meaning more than decent DirectX support is coming as well. With the momentum behind the Rift, Windows 8's standardized implementation of a directX Quad-Buffer, Tridef providing DX support, and Helix fixing non-stereo compliant games, it's going to be a good year for 3D. Notice that nvidia has no part of it. They've been sitting on easily-fixed-but-ignored crappy drivers,making anti-consumer proprietary business decisions, and milking their 3D monopoly ever since I bought my 3D Vision kit in 2009. I can't wait to get out.
eqzitara said:@quadrophoenix
Still I agree with you it's probably not about to happen, which is why I will get the RIFT anyway and at some point then turn my back to nvidia cards as well...


Bingo. A DDD employee already commented on the MTBS3D forums that they've ordered a Rift and are looking into supporting it in Tridef, meaning more than decent DirectX support is coming as well. With the momentum behind the Rift, Windows 8's standardized implementation of a directX Quad-Buffer, Tridef providing DX support, and Helix fixing non-stereo compliant games, it's going to be a good year for 3D. Notice that nvidia has no part of it. They've been sitting on easily-fixed-but-ignored crappy drivers,making anti-consumer proprietary business decisions, and milking their 3D monopoly ever since I bought my 3D Vision kit in 2009. I can't wait to get out.

#25
Posted 11/04/2012 05:07 AM   
I too would love for nVidia to allow stereoscopic gaming in OpenGL games. Please do this.
I too would love for nVidia to allow stereoscopic gaming in OpenGL games. Please do this.

#26
Posted 11/04/2012 09:20 PM   
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