3D Gaming @ 720P. How to improve visuals and general advice.
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Just making a quick post since a few people have asked me about projectors and were a bit timid about them. High resolution is always something good to have because its guaranteed to smooth out jags and it is much less performance taxing then AA options. Though if you have a computer powerful enough or game is old enough you can often have have a similar image as a higher resolution display in [u]most games[/u]. I wont argue that resolution isn't still king but I think the difference can be minimal in many games.
Heres a quick video of...
Mass Effect 3 in 720P using just in game AA. [url]https://s3.amazonaws.com/3dvid/720p.mp4[/url]
Mass Effect 3 using 4XMS SGSS AA and SMAA injector[Ultra] [url]https://s3.amazonaws.com/3dvid/-.mp4[/url]
(Above settings work in ANY UE3 game as long as flags are set properly in nvidia inspector)
Tools to know
Nvidia inspector[Nvidia AA overrides].
I really never recommend doing any AA options through nvidia control panel. Bookmark this site, its vital. Discusses how to use nvidia inspector and correct flags(Further research by user might be needed) [url]http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=357956[/url]
Injectors (SMAA/FXAA/SWEETFX/ENB/ETC).
SMAA is my go to in most situations it is a low cost AA solution.
SWEETFX/ENB offer SMMAA BUT they also change the visuals. I generally dont use it but many people like them and are often well regarded by changes.
FXAA is a last resort. Its applied to full screen rather then just game. I really dislike the cons of using it such as blurry text. However it is low cost, so if your playing a game thats jaggie and cant afford to lose more FPS you should look into it.
Guide on how to use injectors with helixmod games
[url]http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2012/08/guidehow-to-install-helixmod-game-fixes.html[/url]
Fraps.
I always recommend testing performance before using any of the above methods. Then afterwards.
Just making a quick post since a few people have asked me about projectors and were a bit timid about them. High resolution is always something good to have because its guaranteed to smooth out jags and it is much less performance taxing then AA options. Though if you have a computer powerful enough or game is old enough you can often have have a similar image as a higher resolution display in most games. I wont argue that resolution isn't still king but I think the difference can be minimal in many games.
Tools to know
Nvidia inspector[Nvidia AA overrides].
I really never recommend doing any AA options through nvidia control panel. Bookmark this site, its vital. Discusses how to use nvidia inspector and correct flags(Further research by user might be needed) http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=357956
Injectors (SMAA/FXAA/SWEETFX/ENB/ETC).
SMAA is my go to in most situations it is a low cost AA solution.
SWEETFX/ENB offer SMMAA BUT they also change the visuals. I generally dont use it but many people like them and are often well regarded by changes.
FXAA is a last resort. Its applied to full screen rather then just game. I really dislike the cons of using it such as blurry text. However it is low cost, so if your playing a game thats jaggie and cant afford to lose more FPS you should look into it.
[quote="eqzitara"] I wont argue that resolution isn't still king but I think the difference can be minimal in many games.
[/quote]
why there's any arguing? this thread can be just about how to make the best of 720p 3D gaming. it's not like SweetFx and all sorts of graphic mods cannot be used in 1080p 3D or 3D surround.
eqzitara said: I wont argue that resolution isn't still king but I think the difference can be minimal in many games.
why there's any arguing? this thread can be just about how to make the best of 720p 3D gaming. it's not like SweetFx and all sorts of graphic mods cannot be used in 1080p 3D or 3D surround.
Resolution is very costly in 3D and injectors aside you cant do as much AA as a user on 720P, a 720p user may be able to afford 4XMultisampling while a 1080p user can not afford it at all while maintaining similiar FPS. See 3D vision blogs FPS comparision of 1080P with no AA to 720P with 4XAA [url]http://3dvision-blog.com/7710-using-geforce-gtx-580-for-720p-and-1080p-stereo-3d-gaming/[/url] .
Will it be worse, yes. But not as much as many people imagine and there is also a limit to what one can see in visual difference. [u]THIS IS A GUIDE ABOUT MINIMIZALING THE DIFFERENCE.[/u] People asked me for help so I wrote this, they were worried about 720P and jaggies. And I said I am not arguing, not sure why you think we must.
Resolution is very costly in 3D and injectors aside you cant do as much AA as a user on 720P, a 720p user may be able to afford 4XMultisampling while a 1080p user can not afford it at all while maintaining similiar FPS. See 3D vision blogs FPS comparision of 1080P with no AA to 720P with 4XAA http://3dvision-blog.com/7710-using-geforce-gtx-580-for-720p-and-1080p-stereo-3d-gaming/ .
Will it be worse, yes. But not as much as many people imagine and there is also a limit to what one can see in visual difference. THIS IS A GUIDE ABOUT MINIMIZALING THE DIFFERENCE. People asked me for help so I wrote this, they were worried about 720P and jaggies. And I said I am not arguing, not sure why you think we must.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I've never tried a projector, always put off by the low resolution in comparison to the screen size. From the videos it looks like you can deal with jaggies fine, how does it compare in sharpness/clarity?
I've never tried a projector, always put off by the low resolution in comparison to the screen size. From the videos it looks like you can deal with jaggies fine, how does it compare in sharpness/clarity?
Im very poor at judgeing sharpness. Image qualitity in 3D is better(for me) because of necessary tweaking to monitor to get an image that has as little ghosting and amount on my monitor is ridiculous (vg278h). While projector offers no ghosting while maintaining a brighter image and has no viewing angle issues.
Im very poor at judgeing sharpness. Image qualitity in 3D is better(for me) because of necessary tweaking to monitor to get an image that has as little ghosting and amount on my monitor is ridiculous (vg278h). While projector offers no ghosting while maintaining a brighter image and has no viewing angle issues.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Thanks for the tips and links, eqzitara. I was recently playing around with Tomb Raider's AA options, and I was floored by the difference between FXAA and the highest available setting. I stuck with FXAA for performance but I'm definitely curious to try some tweaks to get something better.
I have two projectors, a 1080p one for 2D and a 720p one for 3D. Even when comparing Blu-rays, 1080p vs 720p, sitting close to a 90" screen, the difference just isn't that much. 1080p is twice the pixels but I'd say the visual experience is only 10-20% better, all things being equal. But of course, all things aren't equal. Playing Assassin's Creed 3 in 1080p 2D was a big visual downgrade from 720p 3D (of the previous games).
Thanks for the tips and links, eqzitara. I was recently playing around with Tomb Raider's AA options, and I was floored by the difference between FXAA and the highest available setting. I stuck with FXAA for performance but I'm definitely curious to try some tweaks to get something better.
I have two projectors, a 1080p one for 2D and a 720p one for 3D. Even when comparing Blu-rays, 1080p vs 720p, sitting close to a 90" screen, the difference just isn't that much. 1080p is twice the pixels but I'd say the visual experience is only 10-20% better, all things being equal. But of course, all things aren't equal. Playing Assassin's Creed 3 in 1080p 2D was a big visual downgrade from 720p 3D (of the previous games).
@airion
I actually owned an Optoma hd20(1080p) and an acerh5360(720p). I actually noticed same thing tbh. I mean Id still like the hd20 but it wasnt worth the cost since I saw little difference. With DLP projectors actual seeing pixels is a non-issue so resolution didnt mean as much to me as I thought it would at the time. Resolution on projectors just smooths out jags pretty much to a projector user imo. I returned it but its since dropped in price ridiculously that I may pick one up again. Was like $950 but at $650 is a catch.
@airion
I actually owned an Optoma hd20(1080p) and an acerh5360(720p). I actually noticed same thing tbh. I mean Id still like the hd20 but it wasnt worth the cost since I saw little difference. With DLP projectors actual seeing pixels is a non-issue so resolution didnt mean as much to me as I thought it would at the time. Resolution on projectors just smooths out jags pretty much to a projector user imo. I returned it but its since dropped in price ridiculously that I may pick one up again. Was like $950 but at $650 is a catch.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I'm guessing the drop to 720p isn't as significant as on a monitor due to the sitting distance. Heard about this before, but does no ghosting literally mean, no ghosting? As in you could take something black and put it on something white, and you would notice nothing what so ever? I find that really incredible.
I'm guessing the drop to 720p isn't as significant as on a monitor due to the sitting distance. Heard about this before, but does no ghosting literally mean, no ghosting? As in you could take something black and put it on something white, and you would notice nothing what so ever? I find that really incredible.
Well using a monitor is built for 1080P meaning its native 1080p. You go 720p on a monitor it will look like cheeks. While a 720p projector is native 720p. As an example xbox 360 games look better on my projector then on your monitor.
Ghosting,I would say like to say non-existant but lets just say extremely rare. Like freak occurrence.
Bigweamer was a long time 3D monitor user and just switched recently and he might be the person to talk to about a good comparison.
Well using a monitor is built for 1080P meaning its native 1080p. You go 720p on a monitor it will look like cheeks. While a 720p projector is native 720p. As an example xbox 360 games look better on my projector then on your monitor.
Ghosting,I would say like to say non-existant but lets just say extremely rare. Like freak occurrence.
Bigweamer was a long time 3D monitor user and just switched recently and he might be the person to talk to about a good comparison.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Sitting distance: depending on how you set it up, you can sit as close as you like. I sit 6 feet (2 meters) from my 90" screen. Relative to the size of the screen, that's probably closer than most people sit with monitors. I sit so close that the frames of my 3D glasses cut off a little of the image in each eye at the edges.
As for ghosting, it all comes down to the glasses. As long as the glasses are good and doing their job, you won't see any ghosting. Technically no glasses can block 100% of the light, especially at the edges, but practically speaking, no ghosting. There's no way the image projected by a DLP projector could contribute to ghosting, as extremely fast pixel response time is what makes the technology work in the first place (even 2D).
Sitting distance: depending on how you set it up, you can sit as close as you like. I sit 6 feet (2 meters) from my 90" screen. Relative to the size of the screen, that's probably closer than most people sit with monitors. I sit so close that the frames of my 3D glasses cut off a little of the image in each eye at the edges.
As for ghosting, it all comes down to the glasses. As long as the glasses are good and doing their job, you won't see any ghosting. Technically no glasses can block 100% of the light, especially at the edges, but practically speaking, no ghosting. There's no way the image projected by a DLP projector could contribute to ghosting, as extremely fast pixel response time is what makes the technology work in the first place (even 2D).
@Airion
Have you tried the 3d vision 2's? They are amazing on projector. Ive tried like 6-7 different glasses. They win by far, they have a bit of reflection but its something you dont notice after a while.
@Airion
Have you tried the 3d vision 2's? They are amazing on projector. Ive tried like 6-7 different glasses. They win by far, they have a bit of reflection but its something you dont notice after a while.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
[quote="Cookybiscuit"]I'm guessing the drop to 720p isn't as significant as on a monitor due to the sitting distance. Heard about this before, but does no ghosting literally mean, no ghosting? As in you could take something black and put it on something white, and you would notice nothing what so ever? I find that really incredible.[/quote]
Pretty good thread where we discuss projector ghosting:
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/529466/3d-on-videoprojector/?offset=15#3744761[/url]
Good example of worst case ghosting test. You can just see some ghosting on the left and right. The test case is vertical lines one eye, horizontal lines other eye.
[img]http://bo3b.net/ghost/glasses.JPG[/img]
Test cases used by 3dvision-blog:
[url]http://3dvision-blog.com/4056-stereo-3d-display-crosstalk-test-photos-with-some-results/comment-page-1/[/url]
Black test case that 3dvision-blog uses. (not a complete fair comparison because camera ramps up ISO in darkness. It's actually a bit better than this.)
[img]http://www.bo3b.net/ghost/black.JPG[/img]
White test case from 3dvision-blog:
[img]http://www.bo3b.net/ghost/white.JPG[/img]
Cookybiscuit said:I'm guessing the drop to 720p isn't as significant as on a monitor due to the sitting distance. Heard about this before, but does no ghosting literally mean, no ghosting? As in you could take something black and put it on something white, and you would notice nothing what so ever? I find that really incredible.
Pretty good thread where we discuss projector ghosting:
Good example of worst case ghosting test. You can just see some ghosting on the left and right. The test case is vertical lines one eye, horizontal lines other eye.
Black test case that 3dvision-blog uses. (not a complete fair comparison because camera ramps up ISO in darkness. It's actually a bit better than this.)
White test case from 3dvision-blog:
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Downsampling with SoftTH.
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/512061/3d-vision/downsampling-and-3d-anyone-tried-it-/post/3730907/#3730907[/url]
NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal), Intel Core i7-6900K, Win 10 Pro,
ASUS ROG Rampage V Edition 10, G.Skill RipJaws V 4x 8GB DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34,
ASUS ROG Swift PG258Q, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q, Acer Predator XB280HK, BenQ W710ST
Heres a quick video of...
Mass Effect 3 in 720P using just in game AA. https://s3.amazonaws.com/3dvid/720p.mp4
Mass Effect 3 using 4XMS SGSS AA and SMAA injector[Ultra] https://s3.amazonaws.com/3dvid/-.mp4
(Above settings work in ANY UE3 game as long as flags are set properly in nvidia inspector)
Tools to know
Nvidia inspector[Nvidia AA overrides].
I really never recommend doing any AA options through nvidia control panel. Bookmark this site, its vital. Discusses how to use nvidia inspector and correct flags(Further research by user might be needed) http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=357956
Injectors (SMAA/FXAA/SWEETFX/ENB/ETC).
SMAA is my go to in most situations it is a low cost AA solution.
SWEETFX/ENB offer SMMAA BUT they also change the visuals. I generally dont use it but many people like them and are often well regarded by changes.
FXAA is a last resort. Its applied to full screen rather then just game. I really dislike the cons of using it such as blurry text. However it is low cost, so if your playing a game thats jaggie and cant afford to lose more FPS you should look into it.
Guide on how to use injectors with helixmod games
http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2012/08/guidehow-to-install-helixmod-game-fixes.html
Fraps.
I always recommend testing performance before using any of the above methods. Then afterwards.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
why there's any arguing? this thread can be just about how to make the best of 720p 3D gaming. it's not like SweetFx and all sorts of graphic mods cannot be used in 1080p 3D or 3D surround.
epenny size =/= nerdiness
Will it be worse, yes. But not as much as many people imagine and there is also a limit to what one can see in visual difference. THIS IS A GUIDE ABOUT MINIMIZALING THE DIFFERENCE. People asked me for help so I wrote this, they were worried about 720P and jaggies. And I said I am not arguing, not sure why you think we must.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
I have two projectors, a 1080p one for 2D and a 720p one for 3D. Even when comparing Blu-rays, 1080p vs 720p, sitting close to a 90" screen, the difference just isn't that much. 1080p is twice the pixels but I'd say the visual experience is only 10-20% better, all things being equal. But of course, all things aren't equal. Playing Assassin's Creed 3 in 1080p 2D was a big visual downgrade from 720p 3D (of the previous games).
I actually owned an Optoma hd20(1080p) and an acerh5360(720p). I actually noticed same thing tbh. I mean Id still like the hd20 but it wasnt worth the cost since I saw little difference. With DLP projectors actual seeing pixels is a non-issue so resolution didnt mean as much to me as I thought it would at the time. Resolution on projectors just smooths out jags pretty much to a projector user imo. I returned it but its since dropped in price ridiculously that I may pick one up again. Was like $950 but at $650 is a catch.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Ghosting,I would say like to say non-existant but lets just say extremely rare. Like freak occurrence.
Bigweamer was a long time 3D monitor user and just switched recently and he might be the person to talk to about a good comparison.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
As for ghosting, it all comes down to the glasses. As long as the glasses are good and doing their job, you won't see any ghosting. Technically no glasses can block 100% of the light, especially at the edges, but practically speaking, no ghosting. There's no way the image projected by a DLP projector could contribute to ghosting, as extremely fast pixel response time is what makes the technology work in the first place (even 2D).
Have you tried the 3d vision 2's? They are amazing on projector. Ive tried like 6-7 different glasses. They win by far, they have a bit of reflection but its something you dont notice after a while.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Pretty good thread where we discuss projector ghosting:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/529466/3d-on-videoprojector/?offset=15#3744761
Good example of worst case ghosting test. You can just see some ghosting on the left and right. The test case is vertical lines one eye, horizontal lines other eye.
Test cases used by 3dvision-blog:
http://3dvision-blog.com/4056-stereo-3d-display-crosstalk-test-photos-with-some-results/comment-page-1/
Black test case that 3dvision-blog uses. (not a complete fair comparison because camera ramps up ISO in darkness. It's actually a bit better than this.)
White test case from 3dvision-blog:
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/512061/3d-vision/downsampling-and-3d-anyone-tried-it-/post/3730907/#3730907
NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal), Intel Core i7-6900K, Win 10 Pro,
ASUS ROG Rampage V Edition 10, G.Skill RipJaws V 4x 8GB DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34,
ASUS ROG Swift PG258Q, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q, Acer Predator XB280HK, BenQ W710ST