Important Note: Everything I wrote here before this post was written 1. 4. 2010
-----------------------------------------------------
Somebody wanted ghost test image, here it is
PS:
Ghosting is also present (it is just smaller) on DLPs with old stuff hardware and drivers (means GTX200 series or worse and 196 drivers or worse). Just see 3d blog reviews.
PPS:
I "surrendered" discussion about lcd ghosting cause, because my girlfriend ordered me to go to the bed, there is absolutelly no proof that lcd is causing this or that it can not be compensated by complicated algorithms only Nvidia experts can develop. It is product of your imagination and probably frustration of uncapability to find the real cause or imagine methods that could compensate it if it is true. Your are really angry dudes.
PPPS:
Nvidia is not obligated to implement any new features, I am happy that they are.
Ghosting is also present (it is just smaller) on DLPs with old stuff hardware and drivers (means GTX200 series or worse and 196 drivers or worse). Just see 3d blog reviews.
PPS:
I "surrendered" discussion about lcd ghosting cause, because my girlfriend ordered me to go to the bed, there is absolutelly no proof that lcd is causing this or that it can not be compensated by complicated algorithms only Nvidia experts can develop. It is product of your imagination and probably frustration of uncapability to find the real cause or imagine methods that could compensate it if it is true. Your are really angry dudes.
PPPS:
Nvidia is not obligated to implement any new features, I am happy that they are.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1032325' date='Apr 2 2010, 02:22 AM']Do the 197.17 drivers have a 3d vision driver included?[/quote]
No, and the fact that these drivers are Fermi only proves that nvidia is playing another marketing game.
I watched the video only one time. But I had the feeling that this "home made video" was made by the developers of "metro". I wondered why they only had a shortcut to metro on their desktop *looking on my desktop saying what a mess*
So for me it looked like a marketing video to promote metro and fermi together.
Installed 197.17 minutes ago (with modified .inf). They installed right and work but if I want to activate 3d in wizard it says that my 280gtx is not compatible with 3d vision! LOL
Seems that nvidia is holding back the timing adjustments (if they realy exist) for other cards than Fermi. It seems this message is being hardcoded in 197.17.
A future driver for sure will give the enhancments, again if they realy exist, to all the other cards, too. Of course only when enough fermis were sold ;)
And again I am sure that this is not the hardware reducing ghosting. I remember ghosting with my Hl61A750 was present in the first days it was sold.
I found out that i only had to change to reduced blanking mode in the old driver revisions and ghosting was gone. As far as I know it changes frequency of the cards output.
I think its the same here.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1032325' date='Apr 2 2010, 02:22 AM']Do the 197.17 drivers have a 3d vision driver included?
No, and the fact that these drivers are Fermi only proves that nvidia is playing another marketing game.
I watched the video only one time. But I had the feeling that this "home made video" was made by the developers of "metro". I wondered why they only had a shortcut to metro on their desktop *looking on my desktop saying what a mess*
So for me it looked like a marketing video to promote metro and fermi together.
Installed 197.17 minutes ago (with modified .inf). They installed right and work but if I want to activate 3d in wizard it says that my 280gtx is not compatible with 3d vision! LOL
Seems that nvidia is holding back the timing adjustments (if they realy exist) for other cards than Fermi. It seems this message is being hardcoded in 197.17.
A future driver for sure will give the enhancments, again if they realy exist, to all the other cards, too. Of course only when enough fermis were sold ;)
And again I am sure that this is not the hardware reducing ghosting. I remember ghosting with my Hl61A750 was present in the first days it was sold.
I found out that i only had to change to reduced blanking mode in the old driver revisions and ghosting was gone. As far as I know it changes frequency of the cards output.
[quote name='VadersApp2' post='1032455' date='Apr 2 2010, 10:23 AM']had a shortcut to metro on their [b]desk[/b]top *looking on my desktop saying what a mess*[/quote]
This does not mean anything, [b]desk[/b]top is like desk, you have it clean or not, but usually it is good to have it clean.
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .
[quote name='VadersApp2' post='1032455' date='Apr 2 2010, 10:23 AM']had a shortcut to metro on their desktop *looking on my desktop saying what a mess*
This does not mean anything, desktop is like desk, you have it clean or not, but usually it is good to have it clean.
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032462' date='Apr 2 2010, 09:54 AM']This does not mean anything, [b]desk[/b]top is like desk, you have it clean or not, but usually it is good to have it clean.
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .[/quote]
Of course it´s not sure, but it is a hint. And in fact i am not so intested in the ghosting problem because with my setup there is absolutly no ghosting.
And if the ddd or iz3d will have a driver that will work with dual cards my next card will be 2x 5870 2GB. I am nearly sure that these will outperform any other card in S3D mode.
And yes i am sure that unmodded 197.17 drivers that were leaked are Fermi only.
If you wanna try 197.17 here is the source:
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032462' date='Apr 2 2010, 09:54 AM']This does not mean anything, desktop is like desk, you have it clean or not, but usually it is good to have it clean.
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .
Of course it´s not sure, but it is a hint. And in fact i am not so intested in the ghosting problem because with my setup there is absolutly no ghosting.
And if the ddd or iz3d will have a driver that will work with dual cards my next card will be 2x 5870 2GB. I am nearly sure that these will outperform any other card in S3D mode.
And yes i am sure that unmodded 197.17 drivers that were leaked are Fermi only.
[quote name='VadersApp2' post='1032534' date='Apr 2 2010, 12:50 PM']And if the ddd or iz3d will have a driver that will work with dual cards my next card will be 2x 5870 2GB[/quote]
This is not going to happen, because Ati nor Nvidia will provide proprietary information to mentioned companies. Just stick with Nvidia.
Happy to see that you do not have any ghosting issues - thanks to Nvidia, so I suppose you should write only cheerful posts.
[quote name='VadersApp2' post='1032534' date='Apr 2 2010, 12:50 PM']And if the ddd or iz3d will have a driver that will work with dual cards my next card will be 2x 5870 2GB
This is not going to happen, because Ati nor Nvidia will provide proprietary information to mentioned companies. Just stick with Nvidia.
Happy to see that you do not have any ghosting issues - thanks to Nvidia, so I suppose you should write only cheerful posts.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032432' date='Apr 2 2010, 02:06 AM']I "surrendered" discussion about lcd ghosting cause, because my girlfriend ordered me to go to the bed, there is absolutelly no proof that lcd is causing this or that it can not be compensated by complicated algorithms only Nvidia experts can develop. It is product of your imagination and probably frustration of uncapability to find the real cause or imagine methods that could compensate it if it is true. Your are really angry dudes.[/quote]
You are one of the most dense people on these boards. Seriously. Almost everyone, except you, in this thread understand the [b][size=7]FACT[/size][/b] lcds ghost worse than other displays and why.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032432' date='Apr 2 2010, 02:06 AM']I "surrendered" discussion about lcd ghosting cause, because my girlfriend ordered me to go to the bed, there is absolutelly no proof that lcd is causing this or that it can not be compensated by complicated algorithms only Nvidia experts can develop. It is product of your imagination and probably frustration of uncapability to find the real cause or imagine methods that could compensate it if it is true. Your are really angry dudes.
You are one of the most dense people on these boards. Seriously. Almost everyone, except you, in this thread understand the FACT lcds ghost worse than other displays and why.
Who everyone. You are just random guy, why would I believe you - because you wrote something about links, expensive devices doing measurements, but no link provided.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.
Who everyone. You are just random guy, why would I believe you - because you wrote something about links, expensive devices doing measurements, but no link provided.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032591' date='Apr 2 2010, 07:47 AM']Who everyone. You are just random guy, why would I believe you - because you wrote something about links, expensive devices doing measurements, but no link provided.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.[/quote]
[b]Stop trolling[/b]. Read the entire thread everyone here understand the concept of how LCDs scan from top to bottom, not all at once, and how this causes minory syncronization issues. Everyone here understands the concept that it takes time for pixels to transition in LCDs and forcing them to transition fast like 3D LCDs must do causes inaccuracies and ghosting. Well everyone except you.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032591' date='Apr 2 2010, 07:47 AM']Who everyone. You are just random guy, why would I believe you - because you wrote something about links, expensive devices doing measurements, but no link provided.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.
Stop trolling. Read the entire thread everyone here understand the concept of how LCDs scan from top to bottom, not all at once, and how this causes minory syncronization issues. Everyone here understands the concept that it takes time for pixels to transition in LCDs and forcing them to transition fast like 3D LCDs must do causes inaccuracies and ghosting. Well everyone except you.
But there is no official statement that it causes ghosting. And only who is trolling here is you without providing any usefull information or link, please stop making posts in my thread and create your one in haters corner.
But there is no official statement that it causes ghosting. And only who is trolling here is you without providing any usefull information or link, please stop making posts in my thread and create your one in haters corner.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032609' date='Apr 2 2010, 08:15 AM']But there is no official statement that it causes ghosting. And only who is trolling here is you without providing any usefull information or link, please stop making posts in my thread and create your one in haters corner.[/quote]
[quote name='rkuo' post='1032290' date='Apr 1 2010, 07:23 PM']The slow mo video is on my account. [b]www.youtube.com/rkuo[/b]. If you search back through my posts from the beginning, you will see just how much time I spent trying to track down the problem with the stereo extinction issues on 3D Vision. And I've spent a lot of time educating people here on the issues.
It is possible for drivers to adjust contrast such that these issues are not as bad, but that can be done on any video card. Also, in theory you would favor bottom ghosting over top ghosting as the bulk of the change in the pixel is at the start of the refresh cycle. Aka you wouldn't want to fully center the shutter opening on the direct center of the screen.
Tons of little tweaks ... but the primary fix has to be made at the monitor level.
[b]And yes, this Trek guy is just trolling.[/b][/quote]
I am not the only one who thinks you are trolling. Also, if you would go back and read your own thread you would see people did provide the proof to you.
These forums are for information on the products. Honest information. Not misinformed trolling. People come here to get help and make informed decisions about what they are trying to do or looking to by. You are not helping this community.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032609' date='Apr 2 2010, 08:15 AM']But there is no official statement that it causes ghosting. And only who is trolling here is you without providing any usefull information or link, please stop making posts in my thread and create your one in haters corner.
[quote name='rkuo' post='1032290' date='Apr 1 2010, 07:23 PM']The slow mo video is on my account. www.youtube.com/rkuo. If you search back through my posts from the beginning, you will see just how much time I spent trying to track down the problem with the stereo extinction issues on 3D Vision. And I've spent a lot of time educating people here on the issues.
It is possible for drivers to adjust contrast such that these issues are not as bad, but that can be done on any video card. Also, in theory you would favor bottom ghosting over top ghosting as the bulk of the change in the pixel is at the start of the refresh cycle. Aka you wouldn't want to fully center the shutter opening on the direct center of the screen.
Tons of little tweaks ... but the primary fix has to be made at the monitor level.
And yes, this Trek guy is just trolling.
I am not the only one who thinks you are trolling. Also, if you would go back and read your own thread you would see people did provide the proof to you.
These forums are for information on the products. Honest information. Not misinformed trolling. People come here to get help and make informed decisions about what they are trying to do or looking to by. You are not helping this community.
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032619' date='Apr 2 2010, 08:33 AM']Problem with rkuo's video is that it is not done through Nvidia glasses. I would love to see that.[/quote]
[quote name='TrekCZ' post='1032619' date='Apr 2 2010, 08:33 AM']Problem with rkuo's video is that it is not done through Nvidia glasses. I would love to see that.
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.[/quote]
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.
-----------------------------------------------------
Somebody wanted ghost test image, here it is
PS:
Ghosting is also present (it is just smaller) on DLPs with old stuff hardware and drivers (means GTX200 series or worse and 196 drivers or worse). Just see 3d blog reviews.
PPS:
I "surrendered" discussion about lcd ghosting cause, because my girlfriend ordered me to go to the bed, there is absolutelly no proof that lcd is causing this or that it can not be compensated by complicated algorithms only Nvidia experts can develop. It is product of your imagination and probably frustration of uncapability to find the real cause or imagine methods that could compensate it if it is true. Your are really angry dudes.
PPPS:
Nvidia is not obligated to implement any new features, I am happy that they are.
-----------------------------------------------------
Somebody wanted ghost test image, here it is
PS:
Ghosting is also present (it is just smaller) on DLPs with old stuff hardware and drivers (means GTX200 series or worse and 196 drivers or worse). Just see 3d blog reviews.
PPS:
I "surrendered" discussion about lcd ghosting cause, because my girlfriend ordered me to go to the bed, there is absolutelly no proof that lcd is causing this or that it can not be compensated by complicated algorithms only Nvidia experts can develop. It is product of your imagination and probably frustration of uncapability to find the real cause or imagine methods that could compensate it if it is true. Your are really angry dudes.
PPPS:
Nvidia is not obligated to implement any new features, I am happy that they are.
No, and the fact that these drivers are Fermi only proves that nvidia is playing another marketing game.
I watched the video only one time. But I had the feeling that this "home made video" was made by the developers of "metro". I wondered why they only had a shortcut to metro on their desktop *looking on my desktop saying what a mess*
So for me it looked like a marketing video to promote metro and fermi together.
Installed 197.17 minutes ago (with modified .inf). They installed right and work but if I want to activate 3d in wizard it says that my 280gtx is not compatible with 3d vision! LOL
Seems that nvidia is holding back the timing adjustments (if they realy exist) for other cards than Fermi. It seems this message is being hardcoded in 197.17.
A future driver for sure will give the enhancments, again if they realy exist, to all the other cards, too. Of course only when enough fermis were sold ;)
And again I am sure that this is not the hardware reducing ghosting. I remember ghosting with my Hl61A750 was present in the first days it was sold.
I found out that i only had to change to reduced blanking mode in the old driver revisions and ghosting was gone. As far as I know it changes frequency of the cards output.
I think its the same here.
No, and the fact that these drivers are Fermi only proves that nvidia is playing another marketing game.
I watched the video only one time. But I had the feeling that this "home made video" was made by the developers of "metro". I wondered why they only had a shortcut to metro on their desktop *looking on my desktop saying what a mess*
So for me it looked like a marketing video to promote metro and fermi together.
Installed 197.17 minutes ago (with modified .inf). They installed right and work but if I want to activate 3d in wizard it says that my 280gtx is not compatible with 3d vision! LOL
Seems that nvidia is holding back the timing adjustments (if they realy exist) for other cards than Fermi. It seems this message is being hardcoded in 197.17.
A future driver for sure will give the enhancments, again if they realy exist, to all the other cards, too. Of course only when enough fermis were sold ;)
And again I am sure that this is not the hardware reducing ghosting. I remember ghosting with my Hl61A750 was present in the first days it was sold.
I found out that i only had to change to reduced blanking mode in the old driver revisions and ghosting was gone. As far as I know it changes frequency of the cards output.
I think its the same here.
This does not mean anything, [b]desk[/b]top is like desk, you have it clean or not, but usually it is good to have it clean.
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .
This does not mean anything, desktop is like desk, you have it clean or not, but usually it is good to have it clean.
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .[/quote]
Of course it´s not sure, but it is a hint. And in fact i am not so intested in the ghosting problem because with my setup there is absolutly no ghosting.
And if the ddd or iz3d will have a driver that will work with dual cards my next card will be 2x 5870 2GB. I am nearly sure that these will outperform any other card in S3D mode.
And yes i am sure that unmodded 197.17 drivers that were leaked are Fermi only.
If you wanna try 197.17 here is the source:
[url="http://forum.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=318794"]http://forum.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=318794[/url]
Good look!
Are you serious that these drivers are not working with 200 series or what? This would be vicious from Nvidia .
Of course it´s not sure, but it is a hint. And in fact i am not so intested in the ghosting problem because with my setup there is absolutly no ghosting.
And if the ddd or iz3d will have a driver that will work with dual cards my next card will be 2x 5870 2GB. I am nearly sure that these will outperform any other card in S3D mode.
And yes i am sure that unmodded 197.17 drivers that were leaked are Fermi only.
If you wanna try 197.17 here is the source:
http://forum.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=318794
Good look!
This is not going to happen, because Ati nor Nvidia will provide proprietary information to mentioned companies. Just stick with Nvidia.
Happy to see that you do not have any ghosting issues - thanks to Nvidia, so I suppose you should write only cheerful posts.
This is not going to happen, because Ati nor Nvidia will provide proprietary information to mentioned companies. Just stick with Nvidia.
Happy to see that you do not have any ghosting issues - thanks to Nvidia, so I suppose you should write only cheerful posts.
You are one of the most dense people on these boards. Seriously. Almost everyone, except you, in this thread understand the [b][size=7]FACT[/size][/b] lcds ghost worse than other displays and why.
You are one of the most dense people on these boards. Seriously. Almost everyone, except you, in this thread understand the FACT lcds ghost worse than other displays and why.
Who everyone. You are just random guy, why would I believe you - because you wrote something about links, expensive devices doing measurements, but no link provided.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.
Who everyone. You are just random guy, why would I believe you - because you wrote something about links, expensive devices doing measurements, but no link provided.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.[/quote]
[b]Stop trolling[/b]. Read the entire thread everyone here understand the concept of how LCDs scan from top to bottom, not all at once, and how this causes minory syncronization issues. Everyone here understands the concept that it takes time for pixels to transition in LCDs and forcing them to transition fast like 3D LCDs must do causes inaccuracies and ghosting. Well everyone except you.
Nobody released any official statement about ghosting.
Stop trolling. Read the entire thread everyone here understand the concept of how LCDs scan from top to bottom, not all at once, and how this causes minory syncronization issues. Everyone here understands the concept that it takes time for pixels to transition in LCDs and forcing them to transition fast like 3D LCDs must do causes inaccuracies and ghosting. Well everyone except you.
[quote name='rkuo' post='1032290' date='Apr 1 2010, 07:23 PM']The slow mo video is on my account. [b]www.youtube.com/rkuo[/b]. If you search back through my posts from the beginning, you will see just how much time I spent trying to track down the problem with the stereo extinction issues on 3D Vision. And I've spent a lot of time educating people here on the issues.
It is possible for drivers to adjust contrast such that these issues are not as bad, but that can be done on any video card. Also, in theory you would favor bottom ghosting over top ghosting as the bulk of the change in the pixel is at the start of the refresh cycle. Aka you wouldn't want to fully center the shutter opening on the direct center of the screen.
Tons of little tweaks ... but the primary fix has to be made at the monitor level.
[b]And yes, this Trek guy is just trolling.[/b][/quote]
I am not the only one who thinks you are trolling. Also, if you would go back and read your own thread you would see people did provide the proof to you.
These forums are for information on the products. Honest information. Not misinformed trolling. People come here to get help and make informed decisions about what they are trying to do or looking to by. You are not helping this community.
[quote name='rkuo' post='1032290' date='Apr 1 2010, 07:23 PM']The slow mo video is on my account. www.youtube.com/rkuo. If you search back through my posts from the beginning, you will see just how much time I spent trying to track down the problem with the stereo extinction issues on 3D Vision. And I've spent a lot of time educating people here on the issues.
It is possible for drivers to adjust contrast such that these issues are not as bad, but that can be done on any video card. Also, in theory you would favor bottom ghosting over top ghosting as the bulk of the change in the pixel is at the start of the refresh cycle. Aka you wouldn't want to fully center the shutter opening on the direct center of the screen.
Tons of little tweaks ... but the primary fix has to be made at the monitor level.
And yes, this Trek guy is just trolling.
I am not the only one who thinks you are trolling. Also, if you would go back and read your own thread you would see people did provide the proof to you.
These forums are for information on the products. Honest information. Not misinformed trolling. People come here to get help and make informed decisions about what they are trying to do or looking to by. You are not helping this community.
/facepalm
/facepalm
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.[/quote]
/facepalm
I agree that monitor is working as it is working. But you are concluding that together with all hardware it causes ghosting and that it can not be compensated. Because you are no authority, just some random guy (big complainer), provide links/documentation/measurements/videos from thustworthy people that shows that such a conclusion is true.
/facepalm