Steam allowing custom tags is potentially interesting if we tag enough.
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[quote="Paul33993"]EXPERIMENT TIME: How many tags does a game need before the tag is termed "popular"? Trackmania Valley and F1 Race Stars are both excellent in 3D. Both games only have a single tag on their store page: "Racing." If everyone in this thread tags those two games, would it be enough for "3D Vision" to be termed popular and make the front page.[/quote]I like the idea of doing a tag experiment here. I went ahead and tagged both these games with [b]3D Vision[/b]. (BTW, "3D Vision Ready" already has enough tags to show up in a search by that tag. 4 games.)
Paul33993 said:EXPERIMENT TIME: How many tags does a game need before the tag is termed "popular"? Trackmania Valley and F1 Race Stars are both excellent in 3D. Both games only have a single tag on their store page: "Racing." If everyone in this thread tags those two games, would it be enough for "3D Vision" to be termed popular and make the front page.
I like the idea of doing a tag experiment here. I went ahead and tagged both these games with 3D Vision.

(BTW, "3D Vision Ready" already has enough tags to show up in a search by that tag. 4 games.)

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#46
Posted 02/16/2014 01:31 AM   
I just tagged (3D Vision): Arkham Origins, Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, Brutal Legend, Dishonored, Injustice, Just Cause 2, Metro 2033, Metro Last Light, Rayman Legends, Rayman Origins, Remember Me, Shadow Warrior, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, Tomb Raider, Trine, Trine 2, Master Reboot, Dreamfall, Sonic Generations, Beatbuddy, Bioshock Infinite, Brothers, Call of Juarez: Gunslinger, Contrast, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Far Cry 3, Blood Dragon, Papo & Yo, Psychonauts, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, TrackMania Valley, F1 Race Stsrs
I just tagged (3D Vision):

Arkham Origins, Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, Brutal Legend, Dishonored, Injustice, Just Cause 2, Metro 2033, Metro Last Light, Rayman Legends, Rayman Origins, Remember Me, Shadow Warrior, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, Tomb Raider, Trine, Trine 2, Master Reboot, Dreamfall, Sonic Generations, Beatbuddy, Bioshock Infinite, Brothers, Call of Juarez: Gunslinger, Contrast, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Far Cry 3, Blood Dragon, Papo & Yo, Psychonauts, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, TrackMania Valley, F1 Race Stsrs

#47
Posted 02/16/2014 08:06 AM   
Interesting experiment indeed. Here's what I've found: - Going to the store page of Trackmania Valley and F1 Race Stars. Looking in the tags section, only "Racing" is displayed. When I tried to apply my tags, in the windows that opens on the left side (Popular user-defined tags for this product) I can see "3D Vision" ... for the first time since we started this discussion. Not "3D Vision Ready", mind you. "3D Vision", our agreed monicker. So I must have been seeing Paul's and Bo3b's tags. But I guess there were not enough occurences to make it show directly, which makes sense. "Racing" must have been applied many times. Again, logical. - Then I have looked at Tomb Raider, The Batmans, and Far Cry 3, games that , based on our agreement here, I could have bet people commenting here would have already tagged as "3D Vision". Well, either people did not do it yet, or for another reason, I cannot see the 3D Vision tag on the left. Although I applied it myself yesterday, and Pirate just did now. Possible conclussions: 1. If at least 2 people apply a tag, it's visible in then "Popular user-defined tags for this product" section, when you apply your own tags. (Presumable only Paul and Bo3b had applied "3D Vision" to those little racing games, I don't think anyone else would have. And I was able to see it) 2. This seems in contradiction to my second discovery, since both me and Pirate had tagged Tomb Raider as 3D Vision and it was not visible yet. But, conclusion number two - there possibly is a delay on Steam, maybe due to the need to curate and give greenlight to tags, avoid abuse, etc. Interesting experiment nonetheless, but it seems that if we don't get our asses to work and start tagging, the underlying mechnanics of the tagging system will not be very clear right away. But very interesting discovery, there does not seem to be a need for many people to use a tag like 3D Vision, for it to be displayed in the "Popular user-defined tags for this product" column. Which means other people will see it when they apply their tag. And they may be intrigued, and start asking questions. And they would discover 3D Vision. OMG, goose bumps! LOL
Interesting experiment indeed. Here's what I've found:

- Going to the store page of Trackmania Valley and F1 Race Stars. Looking in the tags section, only "Racing" is displayed. When I tried to apply my tags, in the windows that opens on the left side (Popular user-defined tags for this product) I can see "3D Vision" ... for the first time since we started this discussion. Not "3D Vision Ready", mind you. "3D Vision", our agreed monicker.
So I must have been seeing Paul's and Bo3b's tags. But I guess there were not enough occurences to make it show directly, which makes sense. "Racing" must have been applied many times. Again, logical.

- Then I have looked at Tomb Raider, The Batmans, and Far Cry 3, games that , based on our agreement here, I could have bet people commenting here would have already tagged as "3D Vision".
Well, either people did not do it yet, or for another reason, I cannot see the 3D Vision tag on the left. Although I applied it myself yesterday, and Pirate just did now.

Possible conclussions:
1. If at least 2 people apply a tag, it's visible in then "Popular user-defined tags for this product" section, when you apply your own tags. (Presumable only Paul and Bo3b had applied "3D Vision" to those little racing games, I don't think anyone else would have. And I was able to see it)
2. This seems in contradiction to my second discovery, since both me and Pirate had tagged Tomb Raider as 3D Vision and it was not visible yet. But, conclusion number two - there possibly is a delay on Steam, maybe due to the need to curate and give greenlight to tags, avoid abuse, etc.

Interesting experiment nonetheless, but it seems that if we don't get our asses to work and start tagging, the underlying mechnanics of the tagging system will not be very clear right away.
But very interesting discovery, there does not seem to be a need for many people to use a tag like 3D Vision, for it to be displayed in the "Popular user-defined tags for this product" column. Which means other people will see it when they apply their tag. And they may be intrigued, and start asking questions.
And they would discover 3D Vision. OMG, goose bumps!
LOL

#48
Posted 02/16/2014 08:38 AM   
I also tagged those racing games, FYI. So they may require three tags. It may also be that only the top X number of tags show in that list - so if 3d vision isn't as popular as the other tags, it won't show.
I also tagged those racing games, FYI. So they may require three tags.

It may also be that only the top X number of tags show in that list - so if 3d vision isn't as popular as the other tags, it won't show.

#49
Posted 02/16/2014 08:42 AM   
I haven't gone through my whole library yet. I only did my racing games with the new "3D Vision". I previously did some 3D Vision Ready and 3D Vision Fixed for other games, although thankfully I didn't do too many (smart since we abandoned that approach). I'll try and do my full library with 3D Vision today. EDIT: Just added Tomb Raider. Still doesn't show up in the "popular tags" section. So maybe there is a delay.
I haven't gone through my whole library yet. I only did my racing games with the new "3D Vision". I previously did some 3D Vision Ready and 3D Vision Fixed for other games, although thankfully I didn't do too many (smart since we abandoned that approach). I'll try and do my full library with 3D Vision today.

EDIT: Just added Tomb Raider. Still doesn't show up in the "popular tags" section. So maybe there is a delay.

#50
Posted 02/16/2014 12:38 PM   
[b]3D Vision[/b] as a tag now has 3 games that show up when I click on it as a search. TrackMania, F1 RaceStars, and Batman Asylym. This is new, before it would show zero matches. Trackmania still does not have 3D Vision as a 'popular user-defined' tag.
3D Vision as a tag now has 3 games that show up when I click on it as a search. TrackMania, F1 RaceStars, and Batman Asylym. This is new, before it would show zero matches.

Trackmania still does not have 3D Vision as a 'popular user-defined' tag.

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#51
Posted 02/16/2014 01:40 PM   
When I press the + sign which makes the "View and edit tags for this product" window pop up, I see the 3D Vision tag for Trackmania. And indeed, our recent discussion seems to have an impact already, I also see the 3 games under "3D Vision", the first time our codeword became visible. So this means that applying the tag 3-4 times is enough. At first I thought that if a game already has many other tags, more popular than 3D Vision, it will push it to the bottom and push it off the "popular tag" list. But I've just looked at Arkham Asylum, and it has many tags buit still 3D Vision hangs on at the bottom. So our tagging does matter. (unless the popular tag list is really long, like for Tomb Raider. I'm sure enough of us tagged this game as 3D Vision, yet it cannot appear, since there are simply too many other tags, the game is very popular understandably) I also starting reporting the tags by pressing on the little flag. There is too much silliness (for example the Batman games all have a tag called "Nanananananananananananana" and Tomb Raider has a tag called "Screaming Simulator" which I've both reported as "not applicable" or "offensive") but in the end maybe a comunity effort will make the tags relevant. Happy tagging :-) EDIT OK, I finally got it. If a tag is among the first 20 most popular tags, it will appear in searches and will stick to the popular tag list. So our system will never work for popular games, those have simply too many tags. Let's hope Steam will either enlarge this list, or allow searches with any tag applied 2-3 times to a game, regardless of tag popularity. And let's work together to report irrelevant / offensive tags for our favourite games, to make place on the tag list for our beloved 3D Vision :-). EDIT 2 Easy experiment to confirm the above. Outlast has just 18 tags. I had applied 3D Vision yesterday. If 2-3 more people apply the tag it whould start appearing in the list. It will be displaced when 2 more popular tags are added. (I've also reported as not helpful tags such as 2SPOOKY, 3SPOOKY5ME, Nanomachines, son - a popular one for other games too, how do this people do it? :-) )
When I press the + sign which makes the "View and edit tags for this product" window pop up, I see the 3D Vision tag for Trackmania.
And indeed, our recent discussion seems to have an impact already, I also see the 3 games under "3D Vision", the first time our codeword became visible. So this means that applying the tag 3-4 times is enough.
At first I thought that if a game already has many other tags, more popular than 3D Vision, it will push it to the bottom and push it off the "popular tag" list. But I've just looked at Arkham Asylum, and it has many tags buit still 3D Vision hangs on at the bottom.
So our tagging does matter. (unless the popular tag list is really long, like for Tomb Raider. I'm sure enough of us tagged this game as 3D Vision, yet it cannot appear, since there are simply too many other tags, the game is very popular understandably)

I also starting reporting the tags by pressing on the little flag. There is too much silliness (for example the Batman games all have a tag called "Nanananananananananananana" and Tomb Raider has a tag called "Screaming Simulator" which I've both reported as "not applicable" or "offensive") but in the end maybe a comunity effort will make the tags relevant.

Happy tagging :-)

EDIT
OK, I finally got it.
If a tag is among the first 20 most popular tags, it will appear in searches and will stick to the popular tag list. So our system will never work for popular games, those have simply too many tags.
Let's hope Steam will either enlarge this list, or allow searches with any tag applied 2-3 times to a game, regardless of tag popularity. And let's work together to report irrelevant / offensive tags for our favourite games, to make place on the tag list for our beloved 3D Vision :-).

EDIT 2
Easy experiment to confirm the above. Outlast has just 18 tags. I had applied 3D Vision yesterday. If 2-3 more people apply the tag it whould start appearing in the list. It will be displaced when 2 more popular tags are added. (I've also reported as not helpful tags such as 2SPOOKY, 3SPOOKY5ME, Nanomachines, son - a popular one for other games too, how do this people do it? :-) )

#52
Posted 02/16/2014 02:06 PM   
Tagged Outlast, reported some of the useless tags.
Tagged Outlast, reported some of the useless tags.

#53
Posted 02/16/2014 03:12 PM   
I just tagged Outlast. Still not listing in the popular tags section though. EDIT: Looked two hours later and now it's listed in the popular section. Hard to say if it was just a delay, or more people tagged it.
I just tagged Outlast. Still not listing in the popular tags section though.

EDIT: Looked two hours later and now it's listed in the popular section. Hard to say if it was just a delay, or more people tagged it.

#54
Posted 02/16/2014 07:44 PM   
Ok, thanks Pirate and Paul. So the experiment is conclusive. A tag needs to be applied at least 3 times to show in the "Popular" list (and allowing some delay), but the list can only show the 20 most popular, atm. This means unless Steam change something about this, the most popular games encompasing multiple genres and themes (you know, like the extremely essential "Whalepunk", "Multiple Endings", "Magic", "Choice", "Powers", "Steampunk" and "Story Rich" that the users tagged for Dishonored - people power!) we'll never have a chance with 3D Vision. Let's hope that will change, maybe if they introduce a free tag search.
Ok, thanks Pirate and Paul.
So the experiment is conclusive. A tag needs to be applied at least 3 times to show in the "Popular" list (and allowing some delay), but the list can only show the 20 most popular, atm.
This means unless Steam change something about this, the most popular games encompasing multiple genres and themes (you know, like the extremely essential "Whalepunk", "Multiple Endings", "Magic", "Choice", "Powers", "Steampunk" and "Story Rich" that the users tagged for Dishonored - people power!) we'll never have a chance with 3D Vision.
Let's hope that will change, maybe if they introduce a free tag search.

#55
Posted 02/16/2014 11:21 PM   
It's pretty useless even for sales at this point. Games don't show in searches unless they're achieved popular tag status. Not really useful. Users should be able to set advanced search parameters and if you want to roll the dice and return hits with only one tag, that should be your choice. Either way, I went through and tagged everything I wanted to. Maybe it was a waste, but if everybody takes that attitude of waste of time, it's guaranteed to be a useless feature. Hopefully they'll improve it with time.
It's pretty useless even for sales at this point. Games don't show in searches unless they're achieved popular tag status. Not really useful. Users should be able to set advanced search parameters and if you want to roll the dice and return hits with only one tag, that should be your choice.

Either way, I went through and tagged everything I wanted to. Maybe it was a waste, but if everybody takes that attitude of waste of time, it's guaranteed to be a useless feature. Hopefully they'll improve it with time.

#56
Posted 02/16/2014 11:42 PM   
It's not a waste of time. Some games will not have too many tags, and 3D Vision will be one of them. Also, even for yourself only, it will be useful to remember after a while what games you tagged as 3D Vision, for your own collection. In the meantime, due to our little efforts, Outlast and Batman Origins are added to the 3D Vision category. We're at five games total, now! Yoohoo! (I know, it's silly :-) )
It's not a waste of time. Some games will not have too many tags, and 3D Vision will be one of them.
Also, even for yourself only, it will be useful to remember after a while what games you tagged as 3D Vision, for your own collection.
In the meantime, due to our little efforts, Outlast and Batman Origins are added to the 3D Vision category. We're at five games total, now! Yoohoo!
(I know, it's silly :-) )

#57
Posted 02/16/2014 11:52 PM   
I just tagged 5 games with 3D Vision
I just tagged 5 games with 3D Vision

#58
Posted 02/17/2014 01:09 AM   
I see Arkham Origins shows up as 3D Vision in the bottom of the list, and that's a recent and popular game, so I'd say it's promising. We can probably get something working here. If they are sensible, then wider spread use will show up higher in their lists. So, many games with the same tag should get preference. Something like "Horror" should show up on a lot more games than "Nananananan", even if "Nanaanana" has a lot of people hitting a specific game (all Batman at present). Also of note, you have to remember they just rolled this feature out, so the crowd of people who are tagging junk just for the fun of junking up the system will be high right now, and will taper off as it they move onto spray graffiti on something else. It cannot possibly sustain their attention. I expect the tags to get better and more accurate as time goes on. So, it's probably worth a little effort to see if we can get that category. For simplicity and a solid set of games, how about if everyone hits the top 10 games off our 'best games' list. That gives you a small subset, something you can do in a couple of minutes, and would be a killer start. [url]http://lists.bo3b.net/s3d/[/url] [img]http://lists.bo3b.net/s3d/best%20games.JPG[/img]
I see Arkham Origins shows up as 3D Vision in the bottom of the list, and that's a recent and popular game, so I'd say it's promising. We can probably get something working here.

If they are sensible, then wider spread use will show up higher in their lists. So, many games with the same tag should get preference. Something like "Horror" should show up on a lot more games than "Nananananan", even if "Nanaanana" has a lot of people hitting a specific game (all Batman at present).


Also of note, you have to remember they just rolled this feature out, so the crowd of people who are tagging junk just for the fun of junking up the system will be high right now, and will taper off as it they move onto spray graffiti on something else. It cannot possibly sustain their attention. I expect the tags to get better and more accurate as time goes on.

So, it's probably worth a little effort to see if we can get that category.


For simplicity and a solid set of games, how about if everyone hits the top 10 games off our 'best games' list. That gives you a small subset, something you can do in a couple of minutes, and would be a killer start.

http://lists.bo3b.net/s3d/


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#59
Posted 02/17/2014 02:22 AM   
I had tagged those games and more, a few days ago, when I tagged all my 3D games. I imagine you tagged them yourself now. If Paul, Pirate, or any other user reading this post has also tagged a few of those, they will now have the 3D Vision tag applied - and visible in the game's tags [u]if the popular tags are not more than 20 already[/u]. What would be interesting to discover now is: If a game has the "3D Vision" tag applied the required number of times in order to stick (presumably 3 or 4, by our experiments), but does not have place on the "Popular" list, can it not at least trigger the game to appear in the list of games tagged with "3D Vision" [u]if this list is accessed manually [/u](for example by clicking on the 3D Vision tag in the "Your tags" list). If yes, then the feature will still be useful even in the short term, for the 3D-savy crowd here. The tag will not be "associated" with a game when users look at the game/tag-list directly. But searches made on that tag (if users know how to find it) will still list the games. We'll just have to remember to perform the searches by cliking on the "3D Vision" tag in the "Tags you've applied" list, or whatever it's called. But I'm hoping Steam will just allow for a "tag" search criteria, it's stupid otherwise. I'm at work and the Steam site is blocked, cannot check for 6-7 hours.
I had tagged those games and more, a few days ago, when I tagged all my 3D games. I imagine you tagged them yourself now.
If Paul, Pirate, or any other user reading this post has also tagged a few of those, they will now have the 3D Vision tag applied - and visible in the game's tags if the popular tags are not more than 20 already.

What would be interesting to discover now is:
If a game has the "3D Vision" tag applied the required number of times in order to stick (presumably 3 or 4, by our experiments), but does not have place on the "Popular" list, can it not at least trigger the game to appear in the list of games tagged with "3D Vision" if this list is accessed manually (for example by clicking on the 3D Vision tag in the "Your tags" list).
If yes, then the feature will still be useful even in the short term, for the 3D-savy crowd here.
The tag will not be "associated" with a game when users look at the game/tag-list directly. But searches made on that tag (if users know how to find it) will still list the games.
We'll just have to remember to perform the searches by cliking on the "3D Vision" tag in the "Tags you've applied" list, or whatever it's called. But I'm hoping Steam will just allow for a "tag" search criteria, it's stupid otherwise.

I'm at work and the Steam site is blocked, cannot check for 6-7 hours.

#60
Posted 02/17/2014 09:11 AM   
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