Are you using a supported card? 8 series and up? I can get 3D, I just get gamma differences per eye, or if I use the "Viewmatch" button, I get blue ghosting. And most games wont switch to XGA. Im also waiting on both Viewsonic and Nvidia. Sorry, you should be enjoying 3D!
Are you using a supported card? 8 series and up? I can get 3D, I just get gamma differences per eye, or if I use the "Viewmatch" button, I get blue ghosting. And most games wont switch to XGA. Im also waiting on both Viewsonic and Nvidia. Sorry, you should be enjoying 3D!
Windows 8
470GTX
Nvidia 3D Vision Kit (glasses are useless now)
Passive LG LW57000 55"
Optoma HD33
Razer Hydra
TrackIR
Oculus Rift (soon)
Two crossed eyes
Ok I wanted to give you an update on ViewSonic projectors. We have bee working closely with ViewSonic to debug this issue and have some informaiton for you.
[b]PROBLEM[/b]
The Projector is unable to properly capture correct color wheel sequence during timing sync process. The incorrect color wheel sequence causes the mixed left and right frames' data. The symptom occurs when factory recall or projector power up is performed when active stereoscopic data is present at the input. Projector is unable to capture proper timing when data is consistently alternating.
[b]AFFECTED PROJECTORS[/b][list]
[*]PJD6220-3D
[*]PJD6210-3D
[/list]
[b]UNAFFECTED PROJECTORS [/b]
[list]
[*]PJD5111
[*]PJD5351
[/list]
[b]SHORT TERM WORKAROUND [/b]
[list=1]
[*]1. Do not perform factory recall or power up projector when input has active stereoscopic data. Always power up projector with 2D data. There should be no need to perform factory recall during game play; resync function is sufficient shall timing recapture is required.
[*]2. If the projector is in incorrect color wheel sequence, please perform these steps
[list]
[*]Change to 2D image. Power down projector. Power up projector with active 2D image (Such as Windows desktop screen).
[*]Change to 2D image (Such as Windows desktop) and perform factory recall (This method works occasionally).
[/list]
[/list]
[b]LONG TERM WORKAROUND[/b]
ViewSonic will be working to update their firmware.
Ok I wanted to give you an update on ViewSonic projectors. We have bee working closely with ViewSonic to debug this issue and have some informaiton for you.
PROBLEM
The Projector is unable to properly capture correct color wheel sequence during timing sync process. The incorrect color wheel sequence causes the mixed left and right frames' data. The symptom occurs when factory recall or projector power up is performed when active stereoscopic data is present at the input. Projector is unable to capture proper timing when data is consistently alternating.
AFFECTED PROJECTORS
PJD6220-3D
PJD6210-3D
UNAFFECTED PROJECTORS
PJD5111
PJD5351
SHORT TERM WORKAROUND
[list=1]
1. Do not perform factory recall or power up projector when input has active stereoscopic data. Always power up projector with 2D data. There should be no need to perform factory recall during game play; resync function is sufficient shall timing recapture is required.
2. If the projector is in incorrect color wheel sequence, please perform these steps
Change to 2D image. Power down projector. Power up projector with active 2D image (Such as Windows desktop screen).
Change to 2D image (Such as Windows desktop) and perform factory recall (This method works occasionally).
[/list]
LONG TERM WORKAROUND
ViewSonic will be working to update their firmware.
[b]THE REAL PROBLEM[/b]
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
[b]THE REAL SOLUTION[/b]
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
THE REAL SOLUTION
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='562674' date='Jul 7 2009, 12:17 PM'][b]THE REAL PROBLEM[/b]
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
[b]THE REAL SOLUTION[/b]
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD[/quote]
Hi
Our plan is to certify projectors, so I'm not sure which projectors you are using that force you to turn your glasses upside down.
Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to ge tthe projectors in house and certify them to work.
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='562674' date='Jul 7 2009, 12:17 PM']THE REAL PROBLEM
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
THE REAL SOLUTION
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD
Hi
Our plan is to certify projectors, so I'm not sure which projectors you are using that force you to turn your glasses upside down.
Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to ge tthe projectors in house and certify them to work.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='562697' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:04 PM']Our plan is to certify projectors, so I'm not sure which projectors you are using that force you to turn your glasses upside down.[/quote]
Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled [b]GlassesSwitchDelay[/b], [b]GlassesDelayPlus[/b] & [b]GlassesDelayMinus[/b]) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='562697' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:04 PM']Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to get the projectors in house and certify them to work.[/quote]
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible [i]somewhere[/i] (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D [url="http://www.3dmovielist.com/projectors.html"]here[/url] (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D [i]and[/i] a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='562697' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:04 PM']Our plan is to certify projectors, so I'm not sure which projectors you are using that force you to turn your glasses upside down.
Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='562697' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:04 PM']Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to get the projectors in house and certify them to work.
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible somewhere (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D here (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D and a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Have just tried the steps indicated by Andrew with no improvement. PJD6220-3D will still only sync to left or right image, not both. There must be more to these firmware problems...
Have even connected a video splitter and connected my DepthQ 3D projector and the PJD6220-3D at the same time. Perfect 3D image on the DepthQ, while no 3D just occasional flipping between left and right image on the PJD6220-3D.
Andrew, if you are continuing to talk with Viewsonic support, can you make sure that they are aware of this issue as well please.
Have just tried the steps indicated by Andrew with no improvement. PJD6220-3D will still only sync to left or right image, not both. There must be more to these firmware problems...
Have even connected a video splitter and connected my DepthQ 3D projector and the PJD6220-3D at the same time. Perfect 3D image on the DepthQ, while no 3D just occasional flipping between left and right image on the PJD6220-3D.
Andrew, if you are continuing to talk with Viewsonic support, can you make sure that they are aware of this issue as well please.
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Thanks again
Martin[/quote]
Hi, sorry can you send me your issue ? Maybe the thread on it?
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Thanks again
Martin
Hi, sorry can you send me your issue ? Maybe the thread on it?
Geez, and I thought my issues were bad! Looks like a firmware update is the order of the day.
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay!
[quote name='damienlabonte' post='563103' date='Jul 8 2009, 05:16 PM']Geez, and I thought my issues were bad! Looks like a firmware update is the order of the day.
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay![/quote]
Hi Damo,
I started a new thread on this before I saw yours here:
I am having the same issues as you.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
No, I can't even get the desktop to come up in XGA if I choose 120hz mode.
XGA 110hz seems to be fine though.
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
Yes, mine is doing this exactly as you have described here.
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
I have not noticed this but then the only 3d i have managed to get working is the NVIDIA test screen and GTA 4 @ 800x600
This seemed perfect but I will try it again tonight
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
Did not notice this in the NVIDIA test screen but will check again tonight.
In GTA4 at 800x600 yes...there is blue ghosting but only in the right eye.
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Not sure what this is, let me know and I will check for you.
Tried the workarounds offered by Andrew above but does not seem to solve the issues.
I'm in the UK and had to import this projector, wish I'd read your threads first as sending it back will be costly.
I'd be keen to hear if viewsonic have some sort of time schedule for a proper workaround, I don't to let it go past 30 days.
Hope we can work some sort of solution out because as you have already mentioned Damo, when the 3d works....it's really quite nice!
[quote name='damienlabonte' post='563103' date='Jul 8 2009, 05:16 PM']Geez, and I thought my issues were bad! Looks like a firmware update is the order of the day.
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay!
Hi Damo,
I started a new thread on this before I saw yours here:
I am having the same issues as you.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
No, I can't even get the desktop to come up in XGA if I choose 120hz mode.
XGA 110hz seems to be fine though.
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
Yes, mine is doing this exactly as you have described here.
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
I have not noticed this but then the only 3d i have managed to get working is the NVIDIA test screen and GTA 4 @ 800x600
This seemed perfect but I will try it again tonight
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
Did not notice this in the NVIDIA test screen but will check again tonight.
In GTA4 at 800x600 yes...there is blue ghosting but only in the right eye.
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Not sure what this is, let me know and I will check for you.
Tried the workarounds offered by Andrew above but does not seem to solve the issues.
I'm in the UK and had to import this projector, wish I'd read your threads first as sending it back will be costly.
I'd be keen to hear if viewsonic have some sort of time schedule for a proper workaround, I don't to let it go past 30 days.
Hope we can work some sort of solution out because as you have already mentioned Damo, when the 3d works....it's really quite nice!
I have been gaming in 3D for MANY years and agree whole heartedly. I cant seem to convince many of my friends to switch due to all the $$$ and technical barriers or inconvenience of buying a new monitor ("I already have a 24" monitor, I need a new one?").
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='562777' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:03 PM']Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled [b]GlassesSwitchDelay[/b], [b]GlassesDelayPlus[/b] & [b]GlassesDelayMinus[/b]) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible [i]somewhere[/i] (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D [url="http://www.3dmovielist.com/projectors.html"]here[/url] (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D [i]and[/i] a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).[/quote]
I have been gaming in 3D for MANY years and agree whole heartedly. I cant seem to convince many of my friends to switch due to all the $$$ and technical barriers or inconvenience of buying a new monitor ("I already have a 24" monitor, I need a new one?").
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible somewhere (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D here (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D and a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).
Windows 8
470GTX
Nvidia 3D Vision Kit (glasses are useless now)
Passive LG LW57000 55"
Optoma HD33
Razer Hydra
TrackIR
Oculus Rift (soon)
Two crossed eyes
Ok I wanted to give you an update on ViewSonic projectors. We have bee working closely with ViewSonic to debug this issue and have some informaiton for you.
[b]PROBLEM[/b]
The Projector is unable to properly capture correct color wheel sequence during timing sync process. The incorrect color wheel sequence causes the mixed left and right frames' data. The symptom occurs when factory recall or projector power up is performed when active stereoscopic data is present at the input. Projector is unable to capture proper timing when data is consistently alternating.
[b]AFFECTED PROJECTORS[/b][list]
[*]PJD6220-3D
[*]PJD6210-3D
[/list]
[b]UNAFFECTED PROJECTORS [/b]
[list]
[*]PJD5111
[*]PJD5351
[/list]
[b]SHORT TERM WORKAROUND [/b]
[list=1]
[*]1. Do not perform factory recall or power up projector when input has active stereoscopic data. Always power up projector with 2D data. There should be no need to perform factory recall during game play; resync function is sufficient shall timing recapture is required.
[*]2. If the projector is in incorrect color wheel sequence, please perform these steps
[list]
[*]Change to 2D image. Power down projector. Power up projector with active 2D image (Such as Windows desktop screen).
[*]Change to 2D image (Such as Windows desktop) and perform factory recall (This method works occasionally).
[/list]
[/list]
[b]LONG TERM WORKAROUND[/b]
ViewSonic will be working to update their firmware.
Ok I wanted to give you an update on ViewSonic projectors. We have bee working closely with ViewSonic to debug this issue and have some informaiton for you.
PROBLEM
The Projector is unable to properly capture correct color wheel sequence during timing sync process. The incorrect color wheel sequence causes the mixed left and right frames' data. The symptom occurs when factory recall or projector power up is performed when active stereoscopic data is present at the input. Projector is unable to capture proper timing when data is consistently alternating.
AFFECTED PROJECTORS
UNAFFECTED PROJECTORS
SHORT TERM WORKAROUND
[list=1]
[/list]
LONG TERM WORKAROUND
ViewSonic will be working to update their firmware.
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
[b]THE REAL SOLUTION[/b]
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
THE REAL SOLUTION
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
[b]THE REAL SOLUTION[/b]
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD[/quote]
Hi
Our plan is to certify projectors, so I'm not sure which projectors you are using that force you to turn your glasses upside down.
Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to ge tthe projectors in house and certify them to work.
Whilst I'm glad to hear that the handful of people with a pjd6220-3d can expect a fix from Viewsonic, this doesn't help the thousands of others using different models of projectors for 3D. The two main problems we face are having to wear our nVidia glasses upside down (due to a one frame delay) and the above mentioned difference in colour balance in each eye (generally slightly bluer in one eye and yellower in the other).
Despite having spent a considerable sum on the nVidia glasses (which, to be fair, seem to be very well constructed), I'm forced to use my old E-Dimensionals instead as they have a software switch to reverse eyes, and synch better to my projector, giving less dramatic colour differences in each eye (compared to my upside-down nVidias).
Some people have successfully built a circuit to delay the shuttering of the nVidia glasses by an adjustable amount and have reported that this fixes both problems but it seems ridiculous that we should have to construct circuitry when a simple change in the drivers could easily eliminate the problem. (And in any case, the costs and level of technical ability required to implement the hardware fix are prohibitive for many users).
THE REAL SOLUTION
In earlier versions of your 3d driver it was possible to adjust the timing of shutterglasses using the registry settings for GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus. Recent drivers have had this functionality disabled. All you need to do is re-enable it and then all users of DLP projectors would be able to get perfectly colour balanced 3D (without having to wear their glasses upside-down).
Cheers,
DD
Hi
Our plan is to certify projectors, so I'm not sure which projectors you are using that force you to turn your glasses upside down.
Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to ge tthe projectors in house and certify them to work.
Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled [b]GlassesSwitchDelay[/b], [b]GlassesDelayPlus[/b] & [b]GlassesDelayMinus[/b]) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='562697' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:04 PM']Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to get the projectors in house and certify them to work.[/quote]
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible [i]somewhere[/i] (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D [url="http://www.3dmovielist.com/projectors.html"]here[/url] (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D [i]and[/i] a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).
Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='562697' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:04 PM']Longer term, we dont want to make everyone adjust their timings manually, it just doesnt make sense. We need to get the projectors in house and certify them to work.
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible somewhere (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D here (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D and a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Thanks again
Martin
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Thanks again
Martin
Have even connected a video splitter and connected my DepthQ 3D projector and the PJD6220-3D at the same time. Perfect 3D image on the DepthQ, while no 3D just occasional flipping between left and right image on the PJD6220-3D.
Andrew, if you are continuing to talk with Viewsonic support, can you make sure that they are aware of this issue as well please.
Thanks
Martin
Have even connected a video splitter and connected my DepthQ 3D projector and the PJD6220-3D at the same time. Perfect 3D image on the DepthQ, while no 3D just occasional flipping between left and right image on the PJD6220-3D.
Andrew, if you are continuing to talk with Viewsonic support, can you make sure that they are aware of this issue as well please.
Thanks
Martin
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Thanks again
Martin[/quote]
Hi, sorry can you send me your issue ? Maybe the thread on it?
thank you for the infrmation. I'm glad someone has taken the time to look into this as I have not been able to get any response from Viewsonic.
Can you confirm whether the issue relates to my problem also, i.e. the projector not being able to sync to a 3D signal at all. Just flips between left and right images every 5 seconds or so.
Thanks again
Martin
Hi, sorry can you send me your issue ? Maybe the thread on it?
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay!
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay!
Windows 8
470GTX
Nvidia 3D Vision Kit (glasses are useless now)
Passive LG LW57000 55"
Optoma HD33
Razer Hydra
TrackIR
Oculus Rift (soon)
Two crossed eyes
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay![/quote]
Hi Damo,
I started a new thread on this before I saw yours here:
I am having the same issues as you.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
No, I can't even get the desktop to come up in XGA if I choose 120hz mode.
XGA 110hz seems to be fine though.
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
Yes, mine is doing this exactly as you have described here.
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
I have not noticed this but then the only 3d i have managed to get working is the NVIDIA test screen and GTA 4 @ 800x600
This seemed perfect but I will try it again tonight
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
Did not notice this in the NVIDIA test screen but will check again tonight.
In GTA4 at 800x600 yes...there is blue ghosting but only in the right eye.
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Not sure what this is, let me know and I will check for you.
Tried the workarounds offered by Andrew above but does not seem to solve the issues.
I'm in the UK and had to import this projector, wish I'd read your threads first as sending it back will be costly.
I'd be keen to hear if viewsonic have some sort of time schedule for a proper workaround, I don't to let it go past 30 days.
Hope we can work some sort of solution out because as you have already mentioned Damo, when the 3d works....it's really quite nice!
Questions for those who also have this projector.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Sorry for the more severe problems you guys are having, at least I can get my 3D working (although far from optimally)
Honestly I could have stuck with my Benq at 85hz if the glasses had a sync delay!
Hi Damo,
I started a new thread on this before I saw yours here:
I am having the same issues as you.
-Can you get all games to show in XGA (nevermind 3D, just getting the projector to show me XGA in Prototype and Fuel is impossible
No, I can't even get the desktop to come up in XGA if I choose 120hz mode.
XGA 110hz seems to be fine though.
-Does your projector kind of Tune in the signal, starting with messed up graphics, then mad color cycling then the image shows up
Yes, mine is doing this exactly as you have described here.
-Gamma darker in one eye than the other (3D working)
I have not noticed this but then the only 3d i have managed to get working is the NVIDIA test screen and GTA 4 @ 800x600
This seemed perfect but I will try it again tonight
-Blue ghosting on white areas (3D working)
Did not notice this in the NVIDIA test screen but will check again tonight.
In GTA4 at 800x600 yes...there is blue ghosting but only in the right eye.
-DID YOU GET A UPC CODE ON THE BOX???
Not sure what this is, let me know and I will check for you.
Tried the workarounds offered by Andrew above but does not seem to solve the issues.
I'm in the UK and had to import this projector, wish I'd read your threads first as sending it back will be costly.
I'd be keen to hear if viewsonic have some sort of time schedule for a proper workaround, I don't to let it go past 30 days.
Hope we can work some sort of solution out because as you have already mentioned Damo, when the 3d works....it's really quite nice!
I have been gaming in 3D for MANY years and agree whole heartedly. I cant seem to convince many of my friends to switch due to all the $$$ and technical barriers or inconvenience of buying a new monitor ("I already have a 24" monitor, I need a new one?").
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='562777' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:03 PM']Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled [b]GlassesSwitchDelay[/b], [b]GlassesDelayPlus[/b] & [b]GlassesDelayMinus[/b]) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible [i]somewhere[/i] (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D [url="http://www.3dmovielist.com/projectors.html"]here[/url] (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D [i]and[/i] a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).[/quote]
I have been gaming in 3D for MANY years and agree whole heartedly. I cant seem to convince many of my friends to switch due to all the $$$ and technical barriers or inconvenience of buying a new monitor ("I already have a 24" monitor, I need a new one?").
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='562777' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:03 PM']Hi Andrew,
Apart from the handful of 120Hz projectors that have been sold so far like the DepthQ or PJD6220-3D (both of which are eye-wateringly expensive and well beyond the budget of a typical gamer), the remaining 99.99% of projectors ALL suffer from this problem. Their internal processing/propagation of the image delays it fractionally, making it slightly out of sync with the shutterglasses.
At best, this results in a subtle difference in colour balance for each eye due to the colour wheel, but in the vast majority of cases, the delay is sufficient to also flip the view, forcing the user to wear the glasses upside-down (or to use a software resync like that provided by E-dimensional, or a hardware resync like the physical button some other glasses feature).
Unfortunately the nVidia glasses are the only major brand which currently doesn't offer either solution. This issue has been raised several times both here and on the MTBS forums (and directly with nVidia customer support). The delay settings used to exist within the nVidia drivers (labelled GlassesSwitchDelay, GlassesDelayPlus & GlassesDelayMinus) so presumably re-enabling them should be a fairly trivial task, and it would significantly improve the experience of 3D Vision for the majority of projector owners.
Whilst I understand the desire to make everything as simple as possible, there are hundreds of projectors on the market and there's no way you're ever going to get round to certifying them all. It's fine to have default timing settings for certified projectors so their owners won't have to adjust anything, but for everyone else (i.e. for the vast majority of projectors which are non-certified) it's crucial to give us back the option of setting timings ourselves.
The settings could be hidden away in the Advanced section of the control panel so they don't confuse beginners, but they need to be accessible somewhere (as do some other useful settings which have also been removed from the control panel, like stereo gamma correction and stereo refresh rate).
Cheers,
DD
P.S. I use an HP MP3222 but you can see a list of other projectors which work in 3D here (although it is by no means exhaustive, basically any DLP projector using the Texas Instruments chip is likely to work). Typically these projectors have a refresh rate of 85Hz, although differences in the technology mean that the perceived flicker in 3D with a DLP projector at 85Hz is equivalent to a CRT monitor running at 110 or even 120Hz (though obviously not quite as good as one of the new 120Hz LCD monitors like the Samsung).
The benefits, however, far outweigh the negatives: gaming in 3D on a 6 foot screen at 85Hz is much more fun and immersive than at 120Hz on a tiny 22" monitor. There's also the issue of cost - such a projector can typically be bought on e-bay for around $150, significantly reducing the cost barrier to entry of nVidia 3D Vision, thereby putting it within the reach of a much larger potential customer base. There are also a lot of gamers who already have a reasonably large monitor and would be loathe to go back to a 22", even for 3D. An 85Hz projector gives them a cheap and viable upgrade path which will leave them with both 3D and a larger screen (and more money left over to spend on upgrading their nVidia graphics card).