PS4: No mention of 3D. End of 3D on PC?
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[quote="MikeLoader"]All the talk about deliver Toy Story graphics and we all sook it up but when the console comes out it's nowhere near the quality they said. [/quote] I get this, and there can be a lot of hyperbole at new console launches, expecially from in house developers, but have you seen Toy story lately? I just put it on now to check it out. In many ways games can rival or even better these graphics. The level of detail is relatively low and animations are stiff. I saw my nephew playing some popular game on the xbox (where you buy plastic models) cant remember the name, and I thought it was amazing that despite being a kids game the graphics were pretty much CGI of old. Another little thing I enjoy doing is looking at old game CGI, eg, Tekken, Pandemonium, FF7 on the PS2 or recently I've been re-playing Far Cry (PC obviously). CGI from ps1 has been completely destroyed. I mean new games are 20x better then the CGI in those games.. and I remember at the time, FF7 CGI was ground breaking for consoles. So maybe, just maybe, a lot of these promises of graphics are happening, and quite quickly! It's just. that because we play so much and see the gradual increase of graphic quality, we don't really perceive it. Anyway talking of Far Cry, there's some plastic looking jungle that needs exploring! EDIT: Thinking of future of game and using current CGI as an example, can't wait until we have something approaching Madagascar 3, that is literally CGI porn.
MikeLoader said:All the talk about deliver Toy Story graphics and we all sook it up but when the console comes out it's nowhere near the quality they said.


I get this, and there can be a lot of hyperbole at new console launches, expecially from in house developers, but have you seen Toy story lately? I just put it on now to check it out. In many ways games can rival or even better these graphics. The level of detail is relatively low and animations are stiff. I saw my nephew playing some popular game on the xbox (where you buy plastic models) cant remember the name, and I thought it was amazing that despite being a kids game the graphics were pretty much CGI of old.

Another little thing I enjoy doing is looking at old game CGI, eg, Tekken, Pandemonium, FF7 on the PS2 or recently I've been re-playing Far Cry (PC obviously). CGI from ps1 has been completely destroyed. I mean new games are 20x better then the CGI in those games.. and I remember at the time, FF7 CGI was ground breaking for consoles.

So maybe, just maybe, a lot of these promises of graphics are happening, and quite quickly! It's just. that because we play so much and see the gradual increase of graphic quality, we don't really perceive it.

Anyway talking of Far Cry, there's some plastic looking jungle that needs exploring!

EDIT: Thinking of future of game and using current CGI as an example, can't wait until we have something approaching Madagascar 3, that is literally CGI porn.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#16
Posted 02/21/2013 12:46 PM   
The main thing i don't like about the consoles is the graphics plateau they create, since their hardware is not upgradable. I remember when i used to upgrade something just about every 6 months to keep up with graphics improvements. But also, because console users often sit back away from their TV's, their graphics look more real and its harder to notice the fakeness of the image and don't have much of any need for higher resolution, at least at standard TV viewing distances. Hopefully they will be more diligent about porting high rez version of textures over to PC this time, keeping the faster rate of PC power growth in mind. @Foreverseeking: I do agree with the idea the art quality can be a major factor effecting the overall visual quality. LOTR Online had great art and only medium graphical tech and looked amazing, while the last Star Wars MMO suffered from its art imo. EDIT: BTW, when i mentioned Final Fantasy, i meant the movie, Spirits Within, not the game.
The main thing i don't like about the consoles is the graphics plateau they create, since their hardware is not upgradable. I remember when i used to upgrade something just about every 6 months to keep up with graphics improvements. But also, because console users often sit back away from their TV's, their graphics look more real and its harder to notice the fakeness of the image and don't have much of any need for higher resolution, at least at standard TV viewing distances. Hopefully they will be more diligent about porting high rez version of textures over to PC this time, keeping the faster rate of PC power growth in mind.


@Foreverseeking: I do agree with the idea the art quality can be a major factor effecting the overall visual quality. LOTR Online had great art and only medium graphical tech and looked amazing, while the last Star Wars MMO suffered from its art imo.

EDIT: BTW, when i mentioned Final Fantasy, i meant the movie, Spirits Within, not the game.

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#17
Posted 02/21/2013 01:48 PM   
[quote="Libertine"]The main thing i don't like about the consoles is the graphics plateau they create, since their hardware is not upgradable. [/quote] I know what you're saying Libertine, trust, I couldn't have tech moving fast enough, but are you sure your causality is correct? Do Consoles cause Plateau's or, is it budgets. AAA games cost a fortune to make nowadays, and the cost of creating high resolution multi polygon cities etc is only going to go up. Having all the processing power in the world isn't going to change that, but it will at least make great lighting and post processing effects be easily implemented. Consoles allow for economies of scale, and as much as we PC folk like to kid ourselves, have done tremendous work in turning non gamers into gamers and help create amazing titles. I see consoles as a complimentary good rather then a substitute good to PC's, and I'm sure many people here with both PC's and consoles (and even smartphones, tablets etc) will agree. Also, I think it's unfair to call it a plateau. By very definition, that would state that games progress is flat. Xbox 360 launch games (2005): Quake 4, Peter Jacksons King Kong, Kameo Elements of power PC games (2005): Battlefield 2, Brothers In arms: road to hill 30, Call of duty 2 now compare these games with Gears of War 3, Metro 2033, Battlefield 3, Witcher 2 Games have definitely improved, and quite considerably. It's easy to delude ourselves into thinking gaming stagnates, but it doesn't. It's always progressing. I love playing back through old titles, and it always shocks me how ropey graphics are of games you remember as being cutting edge and amazing. However, what consoles could stagnate is 3D and VR if they keep using crappy 2D rendering techniques, this does make me a little misty eyed. But, with great guys out there like Helix, mana84 with his Bioshock project, or Vireio Perception working on OR integration, I can only hope fixes will be found for DX 11 games!
Libertine said:The main thing i don't like about the consoles is the graphics plateau they create, since their hardware is not upgradable.


I know what you're saying Libertine, trust, I couldn't have tech moving fast enough, but are you sure your causality is correct? Do Consoles cause Plateau's or, is it budgets. AAA games cost a fortune to make nowadays, and the cost of creating high resolution multi polygon cities etc is only going to go up. Having all the processing power in the world isn't going to change that, but it will at least make great lighting and post processing effects be easily implemented. Consoles allow for economies of scale, and as much as we PC folk like to kid ourselves, have done tremendous work in turning non gamers into gamers and help create amazing titles. I see consoles as a complimentary good rather then a substitute good to PC's, and I'm sure many people here with both PC's and consoles (and even smartphones, tablets etc) will agree.

Also, I think it's unfair to call it a plateau. By very definition, that would state that games progress is flat.

Xbox 360 launch games (2005): Quake 4, Peter Jacksons King Kong, Kameo Elements of power
PC games (2005): Battlefield 2, Brothers In arms: road to hill 30, Call of duty 2

now compare these games with Gears of War 3, Metro 2033, Battlefield 3, Witcher 2

Games have definitely improved, and quite considerably. It's easy to delude ourselves into thinking gaming stagnates, but it doesn't. It's always progressing. I love playing back through old titles, and it always shocks me how ropey graphics are of games you remember as being cutting edge and amazing.

However, what consoles could stagnate is 3D and VR if they keep using crappy 2D rendering techniques, this does make me a little misty eyed. But, with great guys out there like Helix, mana84 with his Bioshock project, or Vireio Perception working on OR integration, I can only hope fixes will be found for DX 11 games!

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#18
Posted 02/21/2013 02:22 PM   
Well folks, The Games for PC are in a terrible crisis. The game developers are abandoning the PC. I'm sorry guys, however we see reality. Pc This only meant to be a platform for indie games and MMOs. The Games (AAA) has focused on consoles, always will be. Nvidia can create a Titan, or anything else, that will not make the slightest difference. So Nvidia and PC Gamers, now see their worst nightmare ... [img]http://www.ps3brasil.com/images/anuncio-ps4/specs-ps4-large.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.ps3brasil.com/images/anuncio-ps4/specs-ds4-ps4e-big.jpg[/img] As you can see, a Jaguar AMD 8-core and a GPU with 1.8 TFLOPS (equivalent to HD 7850) + 8GB GDDR5. Remembering that a console does not suffer the ridiculous overheads of APIs and drivers that suffer Pcs. What in practice means more performance. And all this at a price much lower than PCs Need I say more? Blizzard, who for many years was a developer for PCs, has created Diablo 3 on consoles thinking. Think, 4 Players, few skills, etc, etc ... With Lack of Supports Intel and AMD for the PC, the PC simply has no chance of becoming competitive with consoles. They can hate me all you want, however unfortunately THAT is the truth. PCs have become relics of the past just like the Arcades. Sorry for my bad English.
Well folks, The Games for PC are in a terrible crisis. The game developers are abandoning the PC. I'm sorry guys, however we see reality. Pc This only meant to be a platform for indie games and MMOs. The Games (AAA) has focused on consoles, always will be. Nvidia can create a Titan, or anything else, that will not make the slightest difference.

So Nvidia and PC Gamers, now see their worst nightmare ...

Image

Image

As you can see, a Jaguar AMD 8-core and a GPU with 1.8 TFLOPS (equivalent to HD 7850) + 8GB GDDR5. Remembering that a console does not suffer the ridiculous overheads of APIs and drivers that suffer Pcs. What in practice means more performance. And all this at a price much lower than PCs

Need I say more? Blizzard, who for many years was a developer for PCs, has created Diablo 3 on consoles thinking. Think, 4 Players, few skills, etc, etc ...

With Lack of Supports Intel and AMD for the PC, the PC simply has no chance of becoming competitive with consoles.

They can hate me all you want, however unfortunately THAT is the truth. PCs have become relics of the past just like the Arcades. Sorry for my bad English.

#19
Posted 02/21/2013 02:29 PM   
I agree that we're reaching a point where art makes a lot of difference, that's why Bioshock was amazing, UE3 has been used a million times, but Bioshock used such amazing art that made the game 10x more beautiful than the rest. Now, I really hope oculus rift can be connected somehow to the PS4. Imagine that FOV blocking all your view with those graphics? Even without 3d or 1:1 motion, in would be amazing. And right now, even though current PCs may even be more powerful than PS4, it doesn't matter. PCs no longer get exclusive games ala doom 3, crysis 1, etc that take advantage of their hardware. We'll get average ports and not much more, and I agree with forever, games like Beyond or Last of Us look incredible for a 7 year old hardware, so specs don't necessarily tell the whole story. About Crytek, meh, they are trying to sell their game, nothing else, claiming next gen graphics on your PS3 so that it moves sales, and even more since the game itself is rather average shooter according to reviews.
I agree that we're reaching a point where art makes a lot of difference, that's why Bioshock was amazing, UE3 has been used a million times, but Bioshock used such amazing art that made the game 10x more beautiful than the rest.

Now, I really hope oculus rift can be connected somehow to the PS4. Imagine that FOV blocking all your view with those graphics? Even without 3d or 1:1 motion, in would be amazing.

And right now, even though current PCs may even be more powerful than PS4, it doesn't matter. PCs no longer get exclusive games ala doom 3, crysis 1, etc that take advantage of their hardware. We'll get average ports and not much more, and I agree with forever, games like Beyond or Last of Us look incredible for a 7 year old hardware, so specs don't necessarily tell the whole story.

About Crytek, meh, they are trying to sell their game, nothing else, claiming next gen graphics on your PS3 so that it moves sales, and even more since the game itself is rather average shooter according to reviews.

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#20
Posted 02/21/2013 02:31 PM   
[quote="GPUCrazy"]Remembering that a console does not suffer the ridiculous overheads of APIs and drivers that suffer Pcs [/quote] This is something that most people don't seem to get, they seem to think the overheads a couple of cpu cycles or a tiny bit of ram. I don't have any experience with game engines , my C++ skills are limited to 'Hello World' and simple console programs, but I have read quite a lot on it from developers perspective. One big dev, can't remember... Carmack I think, said he finds PC so frustrating as it has so much power but it's impossible to tap because of what you're not allowed to do with the OS. That is why he's always very exited about new consoles as it allows for great coding to get all the power from the hardware and achieve amazing results. I read an article, by Nvidia about how the PS4 would when coded to the metal could be considerably faster then an equivalent PC. [url]http://playstation-techzone.com/2013/01/ps4-and-xbox-720-performance-potential-discussed-by-nvidia-dev-photos[/url] 10x - 100x more overhead on PC... that's gotta hurt, and explains why consoles do look incredibly good considering their horrendous spec. [quote="GPUCrazy"]Well folks, The Games for PC are in a terrible crisis. The game developers are abandoning the PC. I'm sorry guys, however we see reality. Pc This only meant to be a platform for indie games and MMOs. [/quote] PC's sales are in terminal decline because most people only wanted a machine to browse and email, and phones and tablets offered that at a much better price. This growth has increased mini gaming (proper casual gaming on the phone etc) which I think has a massive risk on Consoles and AAA games. I think the proportion of gamers who are really just looking for a past-time is quite a lot larger then we all think. If they end up deciding angry birds is good enough, then consoles could be at huge risk too! To put it in perspective, Xbox has made $0 for Microsoft according to Forbes, relying on enterprise to fund this endeavour. For all our gaming sakes, you better all start wishing that people buy lots of these consoles otherwise it will be bad for all AAA games for the future of big budget titles. Indie will always rule on PC though, it's a great platform for innovation, and the last three years of PC growth help to prove that... but there's only so much free-to-play and MMO one needs in their life.
GPUCrazy said:Remembering that a console does not suffer the ridiculous overheads of APIs and drivers that suffer Pcs


This is something that most people don't seem to get, they seem to think the overheads a couple of cpu cycles or a tiny bit of ram. I don't have any experience with game engines , my C++ skills are limited to 'Hello World' and simple console programs, but I have read quite a lot on it from developers perspective. One big dev, can't remember... Carmack I think, said he finds PC so frustrating as it has so much power but it's impossible to tap because of what you're not allowed to do with the OS. That is why he's always very exited about new consoles as it allows for great coding to get all the power from the hardware and achieve amazing results.

I read an article, by Nvidia about how the PS4 would when coded to the metal could be considerably faster then an equivalent PC.

http://playstation-techzone.com/2013/01/ps4-and-xbox-720-performance-potential-discussed-by-nvidia-dev-photos

10x - 100x more overhead on PC... that's gotta hurt, and explains why consoles do look incredibly good considering their horrendous spec.

GPUCrazy said:Well folks, The Games for PC are in a terrible crisis. The game developers are abandoning the PC. I'm sorry guys, however we see reality. Pc This only meant to be a platform for indie games and MMOs.


PC's sales are in terminal decline because most people only wanted a machine to browse and email, and phones and tablets offered that at a much better price.

This growth has increased mini gaming (proper casual gaming on the phone etc) which I think has a massive risk on Consoles and AAA games. I think the proportion of gamers who are really just looking for a past-time is quite a lot larger then we all think. If they end up deciding angry birds is good enough, then consoles could be at huge risk too!

To put it in perspective, Xbox has made $0 for Microsoft according to Forbes, relying on enterprise to fund this endeavour. For all our gaming sakes, you better all start wishing that people buy lots of these consoles otherwise it will be bad for all AAA games for the future of big budget titles.

Indie will always rule on PC though, it's a great platform for innovation, and the last three years of PC growth help to prove that... but there's only so much free-to-play and MMO one needs in their life.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#21
Posted 02/21/2013 02:46 PM   
What concerns me more than success of consoles is the move away from desktop computing to tablets and notebooks. If people don't use a desktop anymore, then there's no need to build gaming hardware for it, like 3D Vision or 690GTXs. Enthusiast hardware will probably always exist, realistically, but the more niche PC gaming becomes, the more expensive it'll become. As it is, browsing the Steam store in the past year or so reveals that the majority of titles developed exclusively for PC are little side-scrolling indie titles and the like. Those just don't interest me. It's not just the fact that they don't utilize my PC's potential, but more about the fact that those types of games just don't interest me. For all its 3D glory, I got bored with Trine 2, and haven't even completed it halfway. This is not the future I want for PC gaming, because if that is type of game primarily being developed, there is little need for stereo 3D technology. I'm with Forever on this one - I think as PC gamers we should be rooting for the success of the next-gen consoles, because they will keep AAA titles coming. At best, things will continue as now, with some die-hard developers developing PC games first and porting them to console (E.G. The Witcher 2), or at least developing them simultaneously for release on all platforms (E.G. Batman Arkham City). At worst we can expect for some of those titles to be developed for consoles and then ported to PC. And yeah, I know that console ports can sometimes suck, and don't take advantage of our hardware, but they're sure a HECK of a lot better than no games at all.
What concerns me more than success of consoles is the move away from desktop computing to tablets and notebooks. If people don't use a desktop anymore, then there's no need to build gaming hardware for it, like 3D Vision or 690GTXs. Enthusiast hardware will probably always exist, realistically, but the more niche PC gaming becomes, the more expensive it'll become.

As it is, browsing the Steam store in the past year or so reveals that the majority of titles developed exclusively for PC are little side-scrolling indie titles and the like. Those just don't interest me. It's not just the fact that they don't utilize my PC's potential, but more about the fact that those types of games just don't interest me. For all its 3D glory, I got bored with Trine 2, and haven't even completed it halfway. This is not the future I want for PC gaming, because if that is type of game primarily being developed, there is little need for stereo 3D technology.

I'm with Forever on this one - I think as PC gamers we should be rooting for the success of the next-gen consoles, because they will keep AAA titles coming. At best, things will continue as now, with some die-hard developers developing PC games first and porting them to console (E.G. The Witcher 2), or at least developing them simultaneously for release on all platforms (E.G. Batman Arkham City).
At worst we can expect for some of those titles to be developed for consoles and then ported to PC. And yeah, I know that console ports can sometimes suck, and don't take advantage of our hardware, but they're sure a HECK of a lot better than no games at all.

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#22
Posted 02/21/2013 04:00 PM   
I've watched a few of those trailers. I'd be a damn shame if those games aren't in 3D. The only reason I even bought a PS3 was because they were pushing 3D, I had a 360 and was perfectly content with it. Then Sony wasn't doing enough with 3D for the likes of me, I had hoped they'd have made it mandatory, so I looked elsewhere for 3D gaming. I game from my couch with a wireless 360 controller, so my 3Dpc is more of a glorified 3D console. :D
I've watched a few of those trailers. I'd be a damn shame if those games aren't in 3D. The only reason I even bought a PS3 was because they were pushing 3D, I had a 360 and was perfectly content with it. Then Sony wasn't doing enough with 3D for the likes of me, I had hoped they'd have made it mandatory, so I looked elsewhere for 3D gaming. I game from my couch with a wireless 360 controller, so my 3Dpc is more of a glorified 3D console. :D
#23
Posted 02/21/2013 04:24 PM   
Im extremely impressed that it will have blasing fast 8GB of GDDR5 Memory, that is pretty awesome :) And that it's pretty much a Pc in the box is great for us as you say, cant wait for the Steambox and see what it will bring. Even more love to us Pc gamers! And you bet I will be getting the PS4 :D
Im extremely impressed that it will have blasing fast 8GB of GDDR5 Memory, that is pretty awesome :)
And that it's pretty much a Pc in the box is great for us as you say, cant wait for the Steambox and see what it will bring. Even more love to us Pc gamers!

And you bet I will be getting the PS4 :D

#24
Posted 02/21/2013 04:45 PM   
[quote="birthright"]I agree that we're reaching a point where art makes a lot of difference, that's why Bioshock was amazing, UE3 has been used a million times, but Bioshock used such amazing art that made the game 10x more beautiful than the rest. Now, I really hope oculus rift can be connected somehow to the PS4. Imagine that FOV blocking all your view with those graphics? [/quote] Bioshock was absolutely stunning and is a great example of great art direction. It's like 16 bit gaming on the snes or Megadrive (Genesis). They were mature graphics, and look great even today (Sonic or Mario are both colourful and tasty). Polygon based PS1 games and PC games of the same era look pretty ropey, rough if not down right ugly. Polygon based games are now extremely mature, and if approached right will look beautiful for all time, even when they are superseded a thousand fold by technological improvements. What makes them beautiful is the artistic elements that make up the art and model assets. [quote="SnickerSnack"]What concerns me more than success of consoles is the move away from desktop computing to tablets and notebooks. If people don't use a desktop anymore, then there's no need to build gaming hardware for it, like 3D Vision or 690GTXs. Enthusiast hardware will probably always exist, realistically, but the more niche PC gaming becomes, the more expensive it'll become. [/quote] PC decline = people didn't need all that power, now they can browse on their phone or tablet. I too like to think that all gamers want VR ultra immersion games, but it's just not the case. A large percentage of gamers are looking for a pastime. They don't want overly long quests, complicated stats, engrossing storys (the amount of people that admit to click past dialogue hurts me!) they just want a bit of stimulation to enjoy themselves. If Apple were to release a wireless controller that connects to your Ipad/Iphone, and then connect the Idevice into your TV (HDMI) then you may just see the bottom drop out of the AAA market. The Ipad 4th Gen is already incredibly powerful, offering 7th gen graphic power [url]http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ipad-3-benchmark-review,3156-6.html[/url] How many people do you think would just use their Ipad to game on if they could plug it into their TV and use a nice control pad? I think the numbers could be catastrophic for the current console business model. Apple could, with one quick move, potentially destroy the AAA market (unless we're all willing to stock up £150 per game to make up for lost sales) Which is why all gamers who love AAA ultra high quality games (witcher 2, Battlefield 3 etc) should be routing for consoles success, as for PC players they are devil it is better to know! [quote="TsaebehT"]I've watched a few of those trailers. I'd be a damn shame if those games aren't in 3D...[/quote] Back on topic, yes its a bloody shame, there is definitely next gen in the air about upcoming games. Watching Dogs animation of people in the street is something I haven't seen before in a game. It makes GTA IV look positively old! Lets not forget what they showed was the PC version too, so yaysome when that comes out. But if that game supports 3D... oh dear lord. It would be the best looking game yet by far.. but would probably require 3 way sli to run at anything decent in stereoscopic. [quote="TsaebehT"]I game from my couch with a wireless 360 controller, so my 3Dpc is more of a glorified 3D console. :D[/quote] And a console is just a glorified PC (especially with the new x86 architecture) Its vicious circle! ;-)
birthright said:I agree that we're reaching a point where art makes a lot of difference, that's why Bioshock was amazing, UE3 has been used a million times, but Bioshock used such amazing art that made the game 10x more beautiful than the rest. Now, I really hope oculus rift can be connected somehow to the PS4. Imagine that FOV blocking all your view with those graphics?


Bioshock was absolutely stunning and is a great example of great art direction. It's like 16 bit gaming on the snes or Megadrive (Genesis). They were mature graphics, and look great even today (Sonic or Mario are both colourful and tasty). Polygon based PS1 games and PC games of the same era look pretty ropey, rough if not down right ugly. Polygon based games are now extremely mature, and if approached right will look beautiful for all time, even when they are superseded a thousand fold by technological improvements. What makes them beautiful is the artistic elements that make up the art and model assets.

SnickerSnack said:What concerns me more than success of consoles is the move away from desktop computing to tablets and notebooks. If people don't use a desktop anymore, then there's no need to build gaming hardware for it, like 3D Vision or 690GTXs. Enthusiast hardware will probably always exist, realistically, but the more niche PC gaming becomes, the more expensive it'll become.


PC decline = people didn't need all that power, now they can browse on their phone or tablet.

I too like to think that all gamers want VR ultra immersion games, but it's just not the case. A large percentage of gamers are looking for a pastime. They don't want overly long quests, complicated stats, engrossing storys (the amount of people that admit to click past dialogue hurts me!) they just want a bit of stimulation to enjoy themselves.

If Apple were to release a wireless controller that connects to your Ipad/Iphone, and then connect the Idevice into your TV (HDMI) then you may just see the bottom drop out of the AAA market.

The Ipad 4th Gen is already incredibly powerful, offering 7th gen graphic power
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ipad-3-benchmark-review,3156-6.html

How many people do you think would just use their Ipad to game on if they could plug it into their TV and use a nice control pad? I think the numbers could be catastrophic for the current console business model. Apple could, with one quick move, potentially destroy the AAA market (unless we're all willing to stock up £150 per game to make up for lost sales)

Which is why all gamers who love AAA ultra high quality games (witcher 2, Battlefield 3 etc) should be routing for consoles success, as for PC players they are devil it is better to know!



TsaebehT said:I've watched a few of those trailers. I'd be a damn shame if those games aren't in 3D...


Back on topic, yes its a bloody shame, there is definitely next gen in the air about upcoming games. Watching Dogs animation of people in the street is something I haven't seen before in a game. It makes GTA IV look positively old! Lets not forget what they showed was the PC version too, so yaysome when that comes out. But if that game supports 3D... oh dear lord. It would be the best looking game yet by far.. but would probably require 3 way sli to run at anything decent in stereoscopic.

TsaebehT said:I game from my couch with a wireless 360 controller, so my 3Dpc is more of a glorified 3D console. :D


And a console is just a glorified PC (especially with the new x86 architecture) Its vicious circle! ;-)

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#25
Posted 02/21/2013 04:45 PM   
If there is demand, someone will step up. There must be demand for 3D out there, especially games. PC is versatile so will be the 3D champ for the foreseeable future. Perhaps directX will one day have a s3d feature itself. I hope dx11 wont be such a problem. Helix, and other pioneers certainly jumped a few herdles already. I think its going to rests on the modders to get stuff going.
If there is demand, someone will step up. There must be demand for 3D out there, especially games. PC is versatile so will be the 3D champ for the foreseeable future. Perhaps directX will one day have a s3d feature itself.

I hope dx11 wont be such a problem. Helix, and other pioneers certainly jumped a few herdles already.

I think its going to rests on the modders to get stuff going.

#26
Posted 02/21/2013 05:19 PM   
[quote="foreverseeking"]How many people do you think would just use their Ipad to game on if they could plug it into their TV and use a nice control pad? I think the numbers could be catastrophic for the current console business model. Apple could, with one quick move, potentially destroy the AAA market (unless we're all willing to stock up £150 per game to make up for lost sales)[/quote] Things like that are already about to hit the market - There's that gamepad on Kickstarter (can't remember what it's called - is it the OUYA or something?) that is Android based, and you simply plug a game into the pad (the size of a memory stick) and bingo, you're gaming on the TV. Then there's NVidia's own SHIELD system they are developing. I don't begrudge them of wanting to get into that market at all, but I wish they wouldn't appear like they are giving up on the 3D market.
foreverseeking said:How many people do you think would just use their Ipad to game on if they could plug it into their TV and use a nice control pad? I think the numbers could be catastrophic for the current console business model. Apple could, with one quick move, potentially destroy the AAA market (unless we're all willing to stock up £150 per game to make up for lost sales)


Things like that are already about to hit the market - There's that gamepad on Kickstarter (can't remember what it's called - is it the OUYA or something?) that is Android based, and you simply plug a game into the pad (the size of a memory stick) and bingo, you're gaming on the TV.

Then there's NVidia's own SHIELD system they are developing. I don't begrudge them of wanting to get into that market at all, but I wish they wouldn't appear like they are giving up on the 3D market.

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#27
Posted 02/21/2013 05:33 PM   
I noticed in the Deep Down trailer that they relied heavily on DoF blur, that's one of the things I like so much about 3D, other than the depth and perception it delivers, with 3D when your eyes fix on something like the guy's face in the trailer it gets isolated from the rest of the scene and gives you almost the same DoF effect without the need for the extra blur.
I noticed in the Deep Down trailer that they relied heavily on DoF blur, that's one of the things I like so much about 3D, other than the depth and perception it delivers, with 3D when your eyes fix on something like the guy's face in the trailer it gets isolated from the rest of the scene and gives you almost the same DoF effect without the need for the extra blur.
#28
Posted 02/21/2013 05:36 PM   
While things have settled down to 2.5 manufacturers creating mainstream video hardware in the PC space I'm still not sure if the PC market is 'attractive' enough to promote more developers that are exclusive to it. Dedicated gamers with deep pockets may keep up and have the latest (or 1-2 generation down scale) hardware but the hardware and software is all over the map. Everything from XP to W8 is out there along with being powered by 8800's and 690's, dual core to 8-Core CPU's. A console on the other hand represents a stable platform of known hardware/software capabilities. Is it any small wonder that developers are able to optimize the heck out of their games and squeeze out such amazing titles on 7yo hardware? I actually bought a PS3+3DTV for playing games in Stereoscopic 3D. Granted once bought there were only a few titles that had decent 3D and the effect the others provided was not much better then the 'fake some 3D please' button on my Samsung TV. The lack of PS3 3D titles lead me back to PC gaming and Nvidia hardware/3DPlay software. The outright amazing thing to me was that at 720P/1080P resolutions there are titles for the PS3 that look absolutely amazing. BlackOpsI looked and played good. Uncharted3 looks absolutely and plays stunning. MassEffect2 was a bit of a mixed bag, screen tearing and impossible load times I switched to the PC for ME3. I to was a bit disappointed that Sony did not even mention 3D support during the PS4 announcement. However given that Sony has a 3D/VR headset I have high hopes that the PS4 will be able to push a proper 3D image out to it and to any connected 3DTV. Will I buy a PS4? Humm... my $400 PS3 gives me solid 720P video, 7.1 sound and a few 3D titles while my PC (which cost 5x as much) gives me the same or better video, intermittent 7.1 (but mostly Stereo) sound and while I can play more games in 3D, most titles require tons of tweaking and 3rd party software patches to work right. Maybe we need someone like the late Steve Job's to revolutionize PC gaming and take it to the next level and beyond?
While things have settled down to 2.5 manufacturers creating mainstream video hardware in the PC space I'm still not sure if the PC market is 'attractive' enough to promote more developers that are exclusive to it. Dedicated gamers with deep pockets may keep up and have the latest (or 1-2 generation down scale) hardware but the hardware and software is all over the map. Everything from XP to W8 is out there along with being powered by 8800's and 690's, dual core to 8-Core CPU's.

A console on the other hand represents a stable platform of known hardware/software capabilities. Is it any small wonder that developers are able to optimize the heck out of their games and squeeze out such amazing titles on 7yo hardware?

I actually bought a PS3+3DTV for playing games in Stereoscopic 3D. Granted once bought there were only a few titles that had decent 3D and the effect the others provided was not much better then the 'fake some 3D please' button on my Samsung TV. The lack of PS3 3D titles lead me back to PC gaming and Nvidia hardware/3DPlay software.

The outright amazing thing to me was that at 720P/1080P resolutions there are titles for the PS3 that look absolutely amazing. BlackOpsI looked and played good. Uncharted3 looks absolutely and plays stunning. MassEffect2 was a bit of a mixed bag, screen tearing and impossible load times I switched to the PC for ME3.

I to was a bit disappointed that Sony did not even mention 3D support during the PS4 announcement. However given that Sony has a 3D/VR headset I have high hopes that the PS4 will be able to push a proper 3D image out to it and to any connected 3DTV.

Will I buy a PS4? Humm... my $400 PS3 gives me solid 720P video, 7.1 sound and a few 3D titles while my PC (which cost 5x as much) gives me the same or better video, intermittent 7.1 (but mostly Stereo) sound and while I can play more games in 3D, most titles require tons of tweaking and 3rd party software patches to work right.

Maybe we need someone like the late Steve Job's to revolutionize PC gaming and take it to the next level and beyond?

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#29
Posted 02/21/2013 05:37 PM   
The day the mobile market can deliver some half decent games, I'll be worried. Right now, there's tons of shovelware, and barely any decent, not even good, game. Many people are happy with those, but I doubt they were gamers at all in the first place. I think the big hope for 3d is the oculus. I can see all 3d communities converging around the device, even more now that Nvidia has forgotten 3d vision, so community support is going to be huge. Media support is quite positive, and you have some big names interested in it, though they haven't done much about it yet. Hopefully, the steambox will seize the opportunity and make the Oculus their trump card. Can you imagine Half Life 3 exclusive for the steambox with full Oculus support? That would be crazy, and rival anything PS4/xbox720 offers.
The day the mobile market can deliver some half decent games, I'll be worried. Right now, there's tons of shovelware, and barely any decent, not even good, game. Many people are happy with those, but I doubt they were gamers at all in the first place.

I think the big hope for 3d is the oculus. I can see all 3d communities converging around the device, even more now that Nvidia has forgotten 3d vision, so community support is going to be huge. Media support is quite positive, and you have some big names interested in it, though they haven't done much about it yet.

Hopefully, the steambox will seize the opportunity and make the Oculus their trump card. Can you imagine Half Life 3 exclusive for the steambox with full Oculus support? That would be crazy, and rival anything PS4/xbox720 offers.

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#30
Posted 02/21/2013 06:04 PM   
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