[quote name='rkuo' post='970468' date='Dec 25 2009, 01:34 PM']Well you're either A. simply wrong, or B. a very lucky individual. The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated this. For that to not be your monitor it would need to mean that Samsung made some sort of invisible revision to this monitor and that you happened to get one.
The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at, so you'll have to excuse the skepticism, but the burden of proof is you to show otherwise. Take a photo through your shutter glasses on a known high contrast/ghosting 3d screenshot and we'll believe you.[/quote]
"[b]The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated" [/b] Could you source this information please? The only reference I have seen , googling the subject, places it on the different Games and most of that was different settings . That is what I said I would ask , I did, and I will post the response when I recieve it . I saw several mentions of this issue ( not 1,000's, several ) [b]and they ALL said the same thing .[/b]
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.
[quote name='rkuo' post='970468' date='Dec 25 2009, 01:34 PM']Well you're either A. simply wrong, or B. a very lucky individual. The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated this. For that to not be your monitor it would need to mean that Samsung made some sort of invisible revision to this monitor and that you happened to get one.
The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at, so you'll have to excuse the skepticism, but the burden of proof is you to show otherwise. Take a photo through your shutter glasses on a known high contrast/ghosting 3d screenshot and we'll believe you.
"The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated" Could you source this information please? The only reference I have seen , googling the subject, places it on the different Games and most of that was different settings . That is what I said I would ask , I did, and I will post the response when I recieve it . I saw several mentions of this issue ( not 1,000's, several ) and they ALL said the same thing .
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504192' date='Feb 11 2009, 11:15 AM']I am getting severe ghosting at the top of the screen (about 10% of the total screen space). It's as if the glasses weren't working at all for this section. This occurs in all games no matter the driver used.
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).[/quote]
I am getting the same...dunno what is the problem so far...
[quote name='Ulrick28' post='504192' date='Feb 11 2009, 11:15 AM']I am getting severe ghosting at the top of the screen (about 10% of the total screen space). It's as if the glasses weren't working at all for this section. This occurs in all games no matter the driver used.
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).
I am getting the same...dunno what is the problem so far...
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
yeah i started the thread @ iRacing. its very good news that iracing and nvidia are working together. can't wait to see whats down the road, gonna be awesome that's all i know.
yeah post what your friend says. i'll try it it can't hurt any. hopefully he does have some magic fix for it, i don't know what it could be considering there aren't really to many things to tweak. only option is to install the drivers but like i said i'll try what he says and let you know. i appreciate your willingness to help out.
i didn't know about the chemo, that really sucks and hope you're 100% better. i've heard and seen first hand what chemo does, imho, kills more then it saves. hopefully you're one of the lucky ones. i know i wouldn't go through that, but i'm sure its a different story when they're telling you in your face your options.
anyway, i'll be looking for that fix, keeping my fingers crossed :D
yeah i started the thread @ iRacing. its very good news that iracing and nvidia are working together. can't wait to see whats down the road, gonna be awesome that's all i know.
yeah post what your friend says. i'll try it it can't hurt any. hopefully he does have some magic fix for it, i don't know what it could be considering there aren't really to many things to tweak. only option is to install the drivers but like i said i'll try what he says and let you know. i appreciate your willingness to help out.
i didn't know about the chemo, that really sucks and hope you're 100% better. i've heard and seen first hand what chemo does, imho, kills more then it saves. hopefully you're one of the lucky ones. i know i wouldn't go through that, but i'm sure its a different story when they're telling you in your face your options.
anyway, i'll be looking for that fix, keeping my fingers crossed :D
[quote name='HolyGost' post='970516' date='Dec 25 2009, 02:06 PM']"[b]The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated" [/b] Could you source this information please? The only reference I have seen , googling the subject, places it on the different Games and most of that was different settings . That is what I said I would ask , I did, and I will post the response when I recieve it . I saw several mentions of this issue ( not 1,000's, several ) [b]and they ALL said the same thing .[/b]
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.[/quote]
The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. And I'm not trying to solve a problem that isn't solvable. You cannot "affect" the way the monitor hardware refreshes itself with "settings". The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. That's why I'm going to get the new projector or possibly the new Acer monitor as soon as they are available. Regardless, trying new settings is free, so what the hey ... anyone who wants to should go ahead and try them if it makes anyone feel better.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=11180"]forum attachment from me[/url] for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.
[quote name='HolyGost' post='970516' date='Dec 25 2009, 02:06 PM']"The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated" Could you source this information please? The only reference I have seen , googling the subject, places it on the different Games and most of that was different settings . That is what I said I would ask , I did, and I will post the response when I recieve it . I saw several mentions of this issue ( not 1,000's, several ) and they ALL said the same thing .
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.
The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. And I'm not trying to solve a problem that isn't solvable. You cannot "affect" the way the monitor hardware refreshes itself with "settings". The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. That's why I'm going to get the new projector or possibly the new Acer monitor as soon as they are available. Regardless, trying new settings is free, so what the hey ... anyone who wants to should go ahead and try them if it makes anyone feel better.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a forum attachment from me for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.
[quote name='rkuo' post='970687' date='Dec 26 2009, 03:09 AM']The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. And I'm not trying to solve a problem that isn't solvable. You cannot "affect" the way the monitor hardware refreshes itself with "settings". The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. That's why I'm going to get the new projector or possibly the new Acer monitor as soon as they are available. Regardless, trying new settings is free, so what the hey ... anyone who wants to should go ahead and try them if it makes anyone feel better.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=11180"]forum attachment from me[/url] for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.[/quote]
" The "tude" is because [b]you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue[/b]. good reason for the tude. I have seen numerous reviews and testing from legtimate sites, and most of them address the issue. Every one of the people I personally know , does not have the problem. On SOME software . Sure . Your reason is not what is mentioned. Not once. They ALL say the same thing though. Buy another monitor if you like,your choice but it seems to me bad info would be telling someone to chuck their 500.00 and just " go buy another monitor. That in MY opinion, is bad advice. I don't buy a new tire for my car if it only needs air, would be a simple way to put it. Some people buy a new car rather than replace tires. Is that the best solution? I don't think so. If that's your personal chice, have at it, but the majority of people are not, or maybe cannot just chuck a great monitor ( and shouldn't) because they are convinced that there is some great conspiracy on the part of Samsung or Nvidia to cover up some issue. Samsung is an excellent Company with great products, as is Nividia. I [b]dread [/b]calling almost ANY tech support for any company, as we all know how that goes, and many don't know any more than the person calling. Also, some people will swear up and down that ATI is better than Nvidia, or vice versa no matter what the product is. Do what works for you . It isnt going to change your problem.
If it were a systemic problem, it would be reasonable that one could find 10 out of 100's, or at least one that says "The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes " yet, not one out of 100's I read just for the heck of it did. Not one. [b]Many did mention the issue, said exactly what the problem was, and what they did to fix it.[/b] Then they all go on to say what a fantastic Monitor it is. If it were systemic, they would say so. They ALL say the same thing about the issue, and they tell you how to correct it. Some titles, cannot be "fixed", but it is the titles, not the monitor. I cannot run N 2003 for instances on my new computer. I can, but it Ghosts, and the graphics are all whacked out. It is not because of the monitor, it is because my Today CPU is different than mine was 4 years ago. It's the software not my computer.
You want to sell your samsung, I will gladly buy it from you, so it is not a total loss. It is your choice to go see if you can "buy" a solution. I know a guy at my racing title who convinces people they have to buy a 700.00 I-7 and over clock it to the point of explosion, you have to chase todays best toys to make it run right, , has to have 20 vid cards,etc etc you get the picture, overkill , and none of it is true. It wouldn't make a single difference in the performance of this racing title. This title doesnt take alot to run very well. Yet, he will convince people to do this ( built by him of course) and people who have spent a 1/4 of the money, and did it smartly , will out perform his systems every single time.
Bottom line is that while I respect your opinion, one would think that the many who have torn this apart and even recreated the issue, not once blame the monitor . They all say the same thing basically,They all cite the same problem cause , and they all tell you how to fix it. They all rave about the monitor, and they all say the same thing what is bad about it. Not once is " problem with the regresh rate" one of the isues. The issues are pretty much the same, and that would be the monitor base, or stand. The movie playback connector, or lack of, is the other thing they dont like about it . It is entirely consistent to the same issues of the first review out of 100's I read before I bought it , when it first came out. The monitor itself, and specifically the refresh rates and performances, to this day, are as enthusiastic and "two thumbs up " that it got before it came out. These are people in good forums like this one, and not employee's or paid off by either samsung or Nividia . I can think of only a few pre release and post release that remain consistent as they have been for this monitor . Look for yourself. Please link 5 that says " there is a fundemental flaw in the refresh rate in this monitor". It would surprise me greatly that you are the only one that caught the issue, especially when most of them address this directly, and tell you how to fix it. Possible, it has happened before, but it is rare and highly unlikely. I say that respectfully. BTW many have already tested your replacement monitors against this one. The samsung "won" in every instance. Again, I'd invite you to look for yourself. I will not point you to any particular site. They all say the same thing.
I would like to see at least 1, 5 is better for comparrison, that the samesung refresh rate is fundementally flawed.
NJ, catch you in IR . yes, the IR/Nvidia thing if everyone is correct, will make IR leapyears beyond any other racing title. Everytime I want to go GRRRRR at them, something like this pops up. DK and JH with his connections, and vision, I think means the bar will be set high. anyone who can turn the Marlins around is a freakin genius LOL
The chemo was worth it. 100 % death sentence without it, now, 100 % cure rate with it. I had the same Dr, and was at the same time, in the same room with a crazy bald guy riding a stationary bike, with tubes sticking out of his head. He went on to do 7 years of amazing physical stuff ( 8 counting last year, he would have won had he decided to go for himself rather than be a good teamate ) so all in all, it all worked out well. I am thankfull for that. The Dr did say to us one time " we will look back on you guys and say " what the hell did we do to you" . I could have done without that. LOL 1 day at a time.....
"The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. Again, what you see on your system, doesnt mean it is what everyone's problem is. I also invite you to look at ANY site who, because this is their thing, test, dig poke and prod new stuff , and not a single one says what you mention. Not one. It certainly is possible one or 2 would say it, but I didn't see one, not one who even mention a " flaw in the refresh rate. " Quite the opposite. They do mention Ghosting , and they tell you why and how to fix it. Some titles are not "fixable" and they tell you why.
[quote name='rkuo' post='970687' date='Dec 26 2009, 03:09 AM']The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. And I'm not trying to solve a problem that isn't solvable. You cannot "affect" the way the monitor hardware refreshes itself with "settings". The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. That's why I'm going to get the new projector or possibly the new Acer monitor as soon as they are available. Regardless, trying new settings is free, so what the hey ... anyone who wants to should go ahead and try them if it makes anyone feel better.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a forum attachment from me for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.
" The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. good reason for the tude. I have seen numerous reviews and testing from legtimate sites, and most of them address the issue. Every one of the people I personally know , does not have the problem. On SOME software . Sure . Your reason is not what is mentioned. Not once. They ALL say the same thing though. Buy another monitor if you like,your choice but it seems to me bad info would be telling someone to chuck their 500.00 and just " go buy another monitor. That in MY opinion, is bad advice. I don't buy a new tire for my car if it only needs air, would be a simple way to put it. Some people buy a new car rather than replace tires. Is that the best solution? I don't think so. If that's your personal chice, have at it, but the majority of people are not, or maybe cannot just chuck a great monitor ( and shouldn't) because they are convinced that there is some great conspiracy on the part of Samsung or Nvidia to cover up some issue. Samsung is an excellent Company with great products, as is Nividia. I dread calling almost ANY tech support for any company, as we all know how that goes, and many don't know any more than the person calling. Also, some people will swear up and down that ATI is better than Nvidia, or vice versa no matter what the product is. Do what works for you . It isnt going to change your problem.
If it were a systemic problem, it would be reasonable that one could find 10 out of 100's, or at least one that says "The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes " yet, not one out of 100's I read just for the heck of it did. Not one. Many did mention the issue, said exactly what the problem was, and what they did to fix it. Then they all go on to say what a fantastic Monitor it is. If it were systemic, they would say so. They ALL say the same thing about the issue, and they tell you how to correct it. Some titles, cannot be "fixed", but it is the titles, not the monitor. I cannot run N 2003 for instances on my new computer. I can, but it Ghosts, and the graphics are all whacked out. It is not because of the monitor, it is because my Today CPU is different than mine was 4 years ago. It's the software not my computer.
You want to sell your samsung, I will gladly buy it from you, so it is not a total loss. It is your choice to go see if you can "buy" a solution. I know a guy at my racing title who convinces people they have to buy a 700.00 I-7 and over clock it to the point of explosion, you have to chase todays best toys to make it run right, , has to have 20 vid cards,etc etc you get the picture, overkill , and none of it is true. It wouldn't make a single difference in the performance of this racing title. This title doesnt take alot to run very well. Yet, he will convince people to do this ( built by him of course) and people who have spent a 1/4 of the money, and did it smartly , will out perform his systems every single time.
Bottom line is that while I respect your opinion, one would think that the many who have torn this apart and even recreated the issue, not once blame the monitor . They all say the same thing basically,They all cite the same problem cause , and they all tell you how to fix it. They all rave about the monitor, and they all say the same thing what is bad about it. Not once is " problem with the regresh rate" one of the isues. The issues are pretty much the same, and that would be the monitor base, or stand. The movie playback connector, or lack of, is the other thing they dont like about it . It is entirely consistent to the same issues of the first review out of 100's I read before I bought it , when it first came out. The monitor itself, and specifically the refresh rates and performances, to this day, are as enthusiastic and "two thumbs up " that it got before it came out. These are people in good forums like this one, and not employee's or paid off by either samsung or Nividia . I can think of only a few pre release and post release that remain consistent as they have been for this monitor . Look for yourself. Please link 5 that says " there is a fundemental flaw in the refresh rate in this monitor". It would surprise me greatly that you are the only one that caught the issue, especially when most of them address this directly, and tell you how to fix it. Possible, it has happened before, but it is rare and highly unlikely. I say that respectfully. BTW many have already tested your replacement monitors against this one. The samsung "won" in every instance. Again, I'd invite you to look for yourself. I will not point you to any particular site. They all say the same thing.
I would like to see at least 1, 5 is better for comparrison, that the samesung refresh rate is fundementally flawed.
NJ, catch you in IR . yes, the IR/Nvidia thing if everyone is correct, will make IR leapyears beyond any other racing title. Everytime I want to go GRRRRR at them, something like this pops up. DK and JH with his connections, and vision, I think means the bar will be set high. anyone who can turn the Marlins around is a freakin genius LOL
The chemo was worth it. 100 % death sentence without it, now, 100 % cure rate with it. I had the same Dr, and was at the same time, in the same room with a crazy bald guy riding a stationary bike, with tubes sticking out of his head. He went on to do 7 years of amazing physical stuff ( 8 counting last year, he would have won had he decided to go for himself rather than be a good teamate ) so all in all, it all worked out well. I am thankfull for that. The Dr did say to us one time " we will look back on you guys and say " what the hell did we do to you" . I could have done without that. LOL 1 day at a time.....
"The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. Again, what you see on your system, doesnt mean it is what everyone's problem is. I also invite you to look at ANY site who, because this is their thing, test, dig poke and prod new stuff , and not a single one says what you mention. Not one. It certainly is possible one or 2 would say it, but I didn't see one, not one who even mention a " flaw in the refresh rate. " Quite the opposite. They do mention Ghosting , and they tell you why and how to fix it. Some titles are not "fixable" and they tell you why.
you told me i needed to get a core i7 and really good ram so my games didn't take the hit. now you're saying that's buying a solution, sounds funny to me. everyone is going to take a hit running 3d, the fact that your not seems very odd.
my computer has a 3.0ghz quad core, gtx 280, 3gb of 800mhz ram. you say you're not an expert and i'm telling you for a fact, i have a very nice computer, that is not the problem
you say you get 250fps in iRacing with 3d enabled, you can't even get that many fps with 3d enabled, idk if you know what you're talking about man.
are you using the nvidia shutter glasses? are your glasses red and blue by any chance??
enough of this, post some 3d screen shots with the fps meter on so we can see your 3d settings and your fps, also show a video of the no ghosting with your monitor. even with your screen shots we'll still see ghosting.
i don't want to sound so blunt, but all of us here on the forums have similar performance hits, similar issues yet you have none. you, and your 20 friends have no ghosting with your samsung monitors in 3d, and you take very little hit when running in 3d. this sounds completely unbelievable to me. you seem to have a magical setup that no one else seems to have. the more you post the more i find it hard to believe, either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're one lucky sob
now before you get all bent out of shape and say you were just trying to help and i can kiss your ass, chill!!!! if your buddy knows a fix please post it, i'll be the first to report back and if it indeed does fix my problems i'll be the first to apologize and owe you a great deal of gratitude. but until i see proof i'm sorry i just don't believe what you say.
post them 3d screen shots and the video so we can all see, action's speak louder then words.
you told me i needed to get a core i7 and really good ram so my games didn't take the hit. now you're saying that's buying a solution, sounds funny to me. everyone is going to take a hit running 3d, the fact that your not seems very odd.
my computer has a 3.0ghz quad core, gtx 280, 3gb of 800mhz ram. you say you're not an expert and i'm telling you for a fact, i have a very nice computer, that is not the problem
you say you get 250fps in iRacing with 3d enabled, you can't even get that many fps with 3d enabled, idk if you know what you're talking about man.
are you using the nvidia shutter glasses? are your glasses red and blue by any chance??
enough of this, post some 3d screen shots with the fps meter on so we can see your 3d settings and your fps, also show a video of the no ghosting with your monitor. even with your screen shots we'll still see ghosting.
i don't want to sound so blunt, but all of us here on the forums have similar performance hits, similar issues yet you have none. you, and your 20 friends have no ghosting with your samsung monitors in 3d, and you take very little hit when running in 3d. this sounds completely unbelievable to me. you seem to have a magical setup that no one else seems to have. the more you post the more i find it hard to believe, either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're one lucky sob
now before you get all bent out of shape and say you were just trying to help and i can kiss your ass, chill!!!! if your buddy knows a fix please post it, i'll be the first to report back and if it indeed does fix my problems i'll be the first to apologize and owe you a great deal of gratitude. but until i see proof i'm sorry i just don't believe what you say.
post them 3d screen shots and the video so we can all see, action's speak louder then words.
you keep saying they mention the problem and the fix but you don't give specifics, could you post the fix??
another thing, you keep saying they mention the problem and fix, so did they have ghosting as well?? clearly there were issues and i don't trust review sites. most of them get these things for free to test and doubt they'll be on the list if they bash the crap out of a product, jmho.
can you give me some links to these forums and site's you're talking about?? i know you said you weren't but you are the one without the problem here, it is you who should be leading us to salvation.
you keep saying they mention the problem and the fix but you don't give specifics, could you post the fix??
another thing, you keep saying they mention the problem and fix, so did they have ghosting as well?? clearly there were issues and i don't trust review sites. most of them get these things for free to test and doubt they'll be on the list if they bash the crap out of a product, jmho.
can you give me some links to these forums and site's you're talking about?? i know you said you weren't but you are the one without the problem here, it is you who should be leading us to salvation.
Well I'm really cheesed off now /verymad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':verymad:' />
What should have been an expensive but fantastic investment has turned into disaster.
I've been struggling flickering problems to which I was advised to disable one of my gpus. This fixed the issue great, but now I have lost good performance.
Then I stumbled across this thread with regards to ghosting on the Samsung 2233....and sure enough I booted up L4D2 and the ghosting is there at the top AND bottom of my screen, but not in the middle.
Has this purchase been a complete waste of time? Its amazing to see it working but theres so many flaws that it's left a bitter taste in my mouth. If the problems are as that have suggested that its the monitor, surely that cant be fixed via firmware update and would require ANOTHER investment into a monitor? Or could it really be fixed with a sync slider?
Well I'm really cheesed off now /verymad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':verymad:' />
What should have been an expensive but fantastic investment has turned into disaster.
I've been struggling flickering problems to which I was advised to disable one of my gpus. This fixed the issue great, but now I have lost good performance.
Then I stumbled across this thread with regards to ghosting on the Samsung 2233....and sure enough I booted up L4D2 and the ghosting is there at the top AND bottom of my screen, but not in the middle.
Has this purchase been a complete waste of time? Its amazing to see it working but theres so many flaws that it's left a bitter taste in my mouth. If the problems are as that have suggested that its the monitor, surely that cant be fixed via firmware update and would require ANOTHER investment into a monitor? Or could it really be fixed with a sync slider?
"Vision 3D top of screen severe ghosting"
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[url="http://img685.imageshack.us/i/dsc01827q.jpg/"][img]http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4762/dsc01827q.th.jpg[/img][/url]
The second pair of glasses, not changed the picture
is the fault of the monitor?
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='968973' date='Dec 22 2009, 06:45 PM']Well with a couple of problems:
- as you mention, we need an awful high resolution to match up with full HD. The highest resolution available to customers are 2560x1600 @ 30" - the prices still hover close to 2000,- USD on standard monitors - hardly an option for the avarage user.
- There are solutions like the IZ3D panels that use standard TFT panel with 2 layers of polarized filters in front. They need careful trim of polarizers in glasses and display to avoid color mismatch/color ghosting, additionally they loose some brightness due to multiple layers of filters. Also even IZ3D the pioneer of this technology was not successful in putting the 26" announced a year ago to market.
- nvidia does not support this (yet).
- displays in use to manufacture standars LCD TV sets allready support 120Hz and above, all needed to make a 3D ready TV is a different circuitry to drive the panel and thus much easier and likely route for the manufacturers to choose - preannounced Sony Bravias e.g. use shutter technology.
on a side note, german computer magazine ct' had a test display setup at IFA where people were able to A/B test available technologies with surprisingly clear preference of all participants for the shutter technology (mind, with a Samsung 2233RZ !)[/quote]
i've never said shutter technology is not good, if it's bugfree probably it's better than polarized one, the problem of this technology comes out of the box, sync problems, conflicts with neon lamps, infrared emitter conflicts, uniformity of shuttering over the lens, i mean doing a bug free version of this technology for a home use is not easy.
While polarized technology, if the monitor works, 3d works. no problems at all.
I honestly don't care much about brigthness or color realism, i would love to be able to sacrifice some of them in order to have a bugfree 3d experience.
On 14th Jan i will go to see the movie Avatar in a new cinema equipped with polarized technology, don't know if it's linear or circular, it's long time i don't see polarized technology in action, i will look hard into it, as far as i can remember i didn't notice any ghosting in IMAX theatres ages ago.
I've seen Ice Age 3 on a shutter glass technology cinema btw, honestly it was perfect, hope one day we can get the same perfection at home.
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='968973' date='Dec 22 2009, 06:45 PM']Well with a couple of problems:
- as you mention, we need an awful high resolution to match up with full HD. The highest resolution available to customers are 2560x1600 @ 30" - the prices still hover close to 2000,- USD on standard monitors - hardly an option for the avarage user.
- There are solutions like the IZ3D panels that use standard TFT panel with 2 layers of polarized filters in front. They need careful trim of polarizers in glasses and display to avoid color mismatch/color ghosting, additionally they loose some brightness due to multiple layers of filters. Also even IZ3D the pioneer of this technology was not successful in putting the 26" announced a year ago to market.
- nvidia does not support this (yet).
- displays in use to manufacture standars LCD TV sets allready support 120Hz and above, all needed to make a 3D ready TV is a different circuitry to drive the panel and thus much easier and likely route for the manufacturers to choose - preannounced Sony Bravias e.g. use shutter technology.
on a side note, german computer magazine ct' had a test display setup at IFA where people were able to A/B test available technologies with surprisingly clear preference of all participants for the shutter technology (mind, with a Samsung 2233RZ !)
i've never said shutter technology is not good, if it's bugfree probably it's better than polarized one, the problem of this technology comes out of the box, sync problems, conflicts with neon lamps, infrared emitter conflicts, uniformity of shuttering over the lens, i mean doing a bug free version of this technology for a home use is not easy.
While polarized technology, if the monitor works, 3d works. no problems at all.
I honestly don't care much about brigthness or color realism, i would love to be able to sacrifice some of them in order to have a bugfree 3d experience.
On 14th Jan i will go to see the movie Avatar in a new cinema equipped with polarized technology, don't know if it's linear or circular, it's long time i don't see polarized technology in action, i will look hard into it, as far as i can remember i didn't notice any ghosting in IMAX theatres ages ago.
I've seen Ice Age 3 on a shutter glass technology cinema btw, honestly it was perfect, hope one day we can get the same perfection at home.
I registered just to reply to this thread. I too have this issue, and I fully understand the guys that are complaining about it. It took several searches on Google to find this thread. It confirms my suspicion that LCD response time and the way it refreshes the panel is what is causing this issue. My problem is far worse actually - it covers fully 40% of my screen. Perfect 3D at the bottom of my LCD, but gets progressively worse from 40% to the top. So if you think 20% is bad, think again!! However, my setup is completely different, which will explain things a lot. I am using eDimensional shutter LCD glasses on a nVidia 8800GTS, with an old-ish BenQ 20" monitor with I'm sure a pretty bad response time, and I'm running at 60Hz (which is what the monitor supports), so yes, I'm viewing at a migraine-inducing 30Hz! I only did this because I discovered the iZ3D driver that finally resurrects my eDimensional from the gadget graveyard. But I digress...
By the way, I have eliminated the glasses as an issue. If I view a JPS file in *any* JPS viewer, I have the same problem, but if I scroll the image to the bottom of the screen - the previously-ghosted top half of the image appears in perfect 3D. I also tried another LCD monitor (Philips 19" LCD, about 3 years old) which was actually worse! It had the problem on 50% of the screen! Next I will try my CRT, and hope for the best (will also allow me to run much higher refresh rate).
I have an idea that may help some of you. I have never used nVidia's 3D system, but it works on a similar principle so I'm sure this will apply. In order to reduce the problem at the top of the screen, adjust the convergence so that things that are far away are convergent (i.e.left and right image lie on top of one another). In general, things at the top portion of the screen are far away, so if you adjust convergence so that nearer items "pop out" of the screen, then things far away will not have very different left and right images, and thus, images at the top of the screen will generally be clear and "ghost" free. I did this with rFactor and that works brilliantly. Infact, I only realised the "top half ghosting" problem after viewing some JPS files. Even the screengrabs I took of rFactor look fine int the JSP viewer because of the convergence at the top. For those where both the top and bottom are a problem, this might not be of much help. I'd imagine for them, their monitors refresh the image from the center outwards (or outside inwards to the center, whichever the case is).
I'll be staying away from that Samsung monitor. I'd assumed any 120Hz panel will be capable of proper full-screen 3D, but it seems I was wrong. I did read on some forums that not all 120Hz panels are made alike, and they have different methods of progressive scan, with some "cheating" to achieve the 120Hz figure. I'd be interested to know which panels (make and model) work perfectly so that I can specifically go and purchase one of those.
I registered just to reply to this thread. I too have this issue, and I fully understand the guys that are complaining about it. It took several searches on Google to find this thread. It confirms my suspicion that LCD response time and the way it refreshes the panel is what is causing this issue. My problem is far worse actually - it covers fully 40% of my screen. Perfect 3D at the bottom of my LCD, but gets progressively worse from 40% to the top. So if you think 20% is bad, think again!! However, my setup is completely different, which will explain things a lot. I am using eDimensional shutter LCD glasses on a nVidia 8800GTS, with an old-ish BenQ 20" monitor with I'm sure a pretty bad response time, and I'm running at 60Hz (which is what the monitor supports), so yes, I'm viewing at a migraine-inducing 30Hz! I only did this because I discovered the iZ3D driver that finally resurrects my eDimensional from the gadget graveyard. But I digress...
By the way, I have eliminated the glasses as an issue. If I view a JPS file in *any* JPS viewer, I have the same problem, but if I scroll the image to the bottom of the screen - the previously-ghosted top half of the image appears in perfect 3D. I also tried another LCD monitor (Philips 19" LCD, about 3 years old) which was actually worse! It had the problem on 50% of the screen! Next I will try my CRT, and hope for the best (will also allow me to run much higher refresh rate).
I have an idea that may help some of you. I have never used nVidia's 3D system, but it works on a similar principle so I'm sure this will apply. In order to reduce the problem at the top of the screen, adjust the convergence so that things that are far away are convergent (i.e.left and right image lie on top of one another). In general, things at the top portion of the screen are far away, so if you adjust convergence so that nearer items "pop out" of the screen, then things far away will not have very different left and right images, and thus, images at the top of the screen will generally be clear and "ghost" free. I did this with rFactor and that works brilliantly. Infact, I only realised the "top half ghosting" problem after viewing some JPS files. Even the screengrabs I took of rFactor look fine int the JSP viewer because of the convergence at the top. For those where both the top and bottom are a problem, this might not be of much help. I'd imagine for them, their monitors refresh the image from the center outwards (or outside inwards to the center, whichever the case is).
I'll be staying away from that Samsung monitor. I'd assumed any 120Hz panel will be capable of proper full-screen 3D, but it seems I was wrong. I did read on some forums that not all 120Hz panels are made alike, and they have different methods of progressive scan, with some "cheating" to achieve the 120Hz figure. I'd be interested to know which panels (make and model) work perfectly so that I can specifically go and purchase one of those.
Dear all,
having same prob with my 2233 rz: Severe ghosting in top part of display.
Just wanted to let you know that i had possibility today at CES to look at LGs announced 23" FHD monitor.
Unfortunately, it shows exactly the same problem with the 3D Vision (please see attached).
It´s not as severe, but still clearly noticable - game running was Batman Arkanum Asylum
I tested with a 19" CRT at 85Hz, and this problem does not occur on the CRT *at all*.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.
I tested with a 19" CRT at 85Hz, and this problem does not occur on the CRT *at all*.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.
[quote name='TobyK' post='978142' date='Jan 9 2010, 08:21 AM']I tested with a 19" CRT at 85Hz, and this problem does not occur on the CRT *at all*.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.[/quote]
Hi Toby, thankyou for your posts, it has given me some insight to the problem at hand.
[quote name='TobyK' post='978142' date='Jan 9 2010, 08:21 AM']I tested with a 19" CRT at 85Hz, and this problem does not occur on the CRT *at all*.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.
Hi Toby, thankyou for your posts, it has given me some insight to the problem at hand.
Just want to remind that the synchronisation problem causing the top screen ghosting isn't present with 3D-ready devices supporting the checkerboard format (like 3d-ready DLP HDTVs or plasma/DLP HDTVs). Also, the checkerboard format has the advatage to be perfectly supported by nVidias 3D vision system AND also the iZ3D stereo driver.
Depending on the game, either the nVidia or the iZ3D stereo driver generate better results, so it's good to be able to use both!
Just want to remind that the synchronisation problem causing the top screen ghosting isn't present with 3D-ready devices supporting the checkerboard format (like 3d-ready DLP HDTVs or plasma/DLP HDTVs). Also, the checkerboard format has the advatage to be perfectly supported by nVidias 3D vision system AND also the iZ3D stereo driver.
Depending on the game, either the nVidia or the iZ3D stereo driver generate better results, so it's good to be able to use both!
The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at, so you'll have to excuse the skepticism, but the burden of proof is you to show otherwise. Take a photo through your shutter glasses on a known high contrast/ghosting 3d screenshot and we'll believe you.[/quote]
"[b]The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated" [/b] Could you source this information please? The only reference I have seen , googling the subject, places it on the different Games and most of that was different settings . That is what I said I would ask , I did, and I will post the response when I recieve it . I saw several mentions of this issue ( not 1,000's, several ) [b]and they ALL said the same thing .[/b]
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.
The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at, so you'll have to excuse the skepticism, but the burden of proof is you to show otherwise. Take a photo through your shutter glasses on a known high contrast/ghosting 3d screenshot and we'll believe you.
"The cause of the ghosting has already been shown to be the time the monitor takes to scan from top to bottom combined with the glasses shutter timing. I posted high speed videos a while ago that demonstrated" Could you source this information please? The only reference I have seen , googling the subject, places it on the different Games and most of that was different settings . That is what I said I would ask , I did, and I will post the response when I recieve it . I saw several mentions of this issue ( not 1,000's, several ) and they ALL said the same thing .
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).[/quote]
I am getting the same...dunno what is the problem so far...
I am currently using the 120hz samsung LCD display with the vision 3D glasses. Everything else looks find (except some inverse ghosting I get in brighter games).
Is this a problem with the display, the glasses, my computer?
I am using a gtx 280 with a core 7 extreme (3.2 ghz) and 12 megs of ram. I am running at 120 hz. The problem appears no matter the game or the lighting in the room (totally dark, lights on, etc).
I am getting the same...dunno what is the problem so far...
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
yeah post what your friend says. i'll try it it can't hurt any. hopefully he does have some magic fix for it, i don't know what it could be considering there aren't really to many things to tweak. only option is to install the drivers but like i said i'll try what he says and let you know. i appreciate your willingness to help out.
i didn't know about the chemo, that really sucks and hope you're 100% better. i've heard and seen first hand what chemo does, imho, kills more then it saves. hopefully you're one of the lucky ones. i know i wouldn't go through that, but i'm sure its a different story when they're telling you in your face your options.
anyway, i'll be looking for that fix, keeping my fingers crossed :D
yeah post what your friend says. i'll try it it can't hurt any. hopefully he does have some magic fix for it, i don't know what it could be considering there aren't really to many things to tweak. only option is to install the drivers but like i said i'll try what he says and let you know. i appreciate your willingness to help out.
i didn't know about the chemo, that really sucks and hope you're 100% better. i've heard and seen first hand what chemo does, imho, kills more then it saves. hopefully you're one of the lucky ones. i know i wouldn't go through that, but i'm sure its a different story when they're telling you in your face your options.
anyway, i'll be looking for that fix, keeping my fingers crossed :D
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.[/quote]
The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. And I'm not trying to solve a problem that isn't solvable. You cannot "affect" the way the monitor hardware refreshes itself with "settings". The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. That's why I'm going to get the new projector or possibly the new Acer monitor as soon as they are available. Regardless, trying new settings is free, so what the hey ... anyone who wants to should go ahead and try them if it makes anyone feel better.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=11180"]forum attachment from me[/url] for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.
"The majority of new posters have no idea how to check these things or even what they are looking at " I do know what I am looking at , and I also acknowledged that I a NOT an expert. The person who installs and builds all my stuff, IS an expert, which if you READ the post , that is exactly what I said. Drop the tude dude. I am trying to possibly help someone. How I can do tht is ask what he did, and pass it along. If you don't feel it possible that MAY be helpfull, then I have much better things to do. If your the expert, and you already have solved the " problem" , why haven't you solved it??
The burden of of nothing is on me. I, and the 20 people who have the same set-up ( as i stated, I have it on 1 single rig, I MUCH prefer to use the monitor(s) alone) installed by the same person, don't have the problem. MAYBE he is on to something, or has something to contribute. If you READ the post, I offered to ask the person who set mine, and the other 19 people what settings he used, being none of us have the problem I didnt not sign up for a ______ contest, or play the forum argument game. I offered, and will follow through on what HE did when he installed it, and offered to post it here, as it MAY help someone to correct the problem. I am NOT a expert with this, but I offered to ask and post the response. In my opinion that is what forums are for. It MAY or may not help you, it MAY help someone else.
Call it what you want, but I still don't have the problem. Nobdody I know has the problem except for the fellow Iracing member, and I will be happy to pass it along to him in that thread. I imagine though , that many of the "we 's" might be interested in what was done, by an expert when he installed mine , and the others that I know of, as NONE of us have the same problem . It MIGHT help them, it MIGHT not. RTFP might be some help to you .
NJ , I will post the response in the iRacing thread. I know DK is VERY interested in 3d for iRacing, and it is no coincidence Nvidia opened a lab right across the hall from iRacings development lab. So maybe some good things are in store for us? DK and JH continue to amaze me.
Catch you in the Iracing thread with the response when I get it. I imagine it will be tomorrow. I am at 120 if that what you were asking me. He is going to write it step by step. As soon as I get home , I will post the rest of what you asked. Your the one that started the thread right? Regardless, I will post it in that thread.
Merry x-mas.
PS The headaches are related to chemo after effects and the eye strain. Small price to pay considering the alternative.
The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. And I'm not trying to solve a problem that isn't solvable. You cannot "affect" the way the monitor hardware refreshes itself with "settings". The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. That's why I'm going to get the new projector or possibly the new Acer monitor as soon as they are available. Regardless, trying new settings is free, so what the hey ... anyone who wants to should go ahead and try them if it makes anyone feel better.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a forum attachment from me for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=11180"]forum attachment from me[/url] for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.[/quote]
" The "tude" is because [b]you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue[/b]. good reason for the tude. I have seen numerous reviews and testing from legtimate sites, and most of them address the issue. Every one of the people I personally know , does not have the problem. On SOME software . Sure . Your reason is not what is mentioned. Not once. They ALL say the same thing though. Buy another monitor if you like,your choice but it seems to me bad info would be telling someone to chuck their 500.00 and just " go buy another monitor. That in MY opinion, is bad advice. I don't buy a new tire for my car if it only needs air, would be a simple way to put it. Some people buy a new car rather than replace tires. Is that the best solution? I don't think so. If that's your personal chice, have at it, but the majority of people are not, or maybe cannot just chuck a great monitor ( and shouldn't) because they are convinced that there is some great conspiracy on the part of Samsung or Nvidia to cover up some issue. Samsung is an excellent Company with great products, as is Nividia. I [b]dread [/b]calling almost ANY tech support for any company, as we all know how that goes, and many don't know any more than the person calling. Also, some people will swear up and down that ATI is better than Nvidia, or vice versa no matter what the product is. Do what works for you . It isnt going to change your problem.
If it were a systemic problem, it would be reasonable that one could find 10 out of 100's, or at least one that says "The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes " yet, not one out of 100's I read just for the heck of it did. Not one. [b]Many did mention the issue, said exactly what the problem was, and what they did to fix it.[/b] Then they all go on to say what a fantastic Monitor it is. If it were systemic, they would say so. They ALL say the same thing about the issue, and they tell you how to correct it. Some titles, cannot be "fixed", but it is the titles, not the monitor. I cannot run N 2003 for instances on my new computer. I can, but it Ghosts, and the graphics are all whacked out. It is not because of the monitor, it is because my Today CPU is different than mine was 4 years ago. It's the software not my computer.
You want to sell your samsung, I will gladly buy it from you, so it is not a total loss. It is your choice to go see if you can "buy" a solution. I know a guy at my racing title who convinces people they have to buy a 700.00 I-7 and over clock it to the point of explosion, you have to chase todays best toys to make it run right, , has to have 20 vid cards,etc etc you get the picture, overkill , and none of it is true. It wouldn't make a single difference in the performance of this racing title. This title doesnt take alot to run very well. Yet, he will convince people to do this ( built by him of course) and people who have spent a 1/4 of the money, and did it smartly , will out perform his systems every single time.
Bottom line is that while I respect your opinion, one would think that the many who have torn this apart and even recreated the issue, not once blame the monitor . They all say the same thing basically,They all cite the same problem cause , and they all tell you how to fix it. They all rave about the monitor, and they all say the same thing what is bad about it. Not once is " problem with the regresh rate" one of the isues. The issues are pretty much the same, and that would be the monitor base, or stand. The movie playback connector, or lack of, is the other thing they dont like about it . It is entirely consistent to the same issues of the first review out of 100's I read before I bought it , when it first came out. The monitor itself, and specifically the refresh rates and performances, to this day, are as enthusiastic and "two thumbs up " that it got before it came out. These are people in good forums like this one, and not employee's or paid off by either samsung or Nividia . I can think of only a few pre release and post release that remain consistent as they have been for this monitor . Look for yourself. Please link 5 that says " there is a fundemental flaw in the refresh rate in this monitor". It would surprise me greatly that you are the only one that caught the issue, especially when most of them address this directly, and tell you how to fix it. Possible, it has happened before, but it is rare and highly unlikely. I say that respectfully. BTW many have already tested your replacement monitors against this one. The samsung "won" in every instance. Again, I'd invite you to look for yourself. I will not point you to any particular site. They all say the same thing.
I would like to see at least 1, 5 is better for comparrison, that the samesung refresh rate is fundementally flawed.
NJ, catch you in IR . yes, the IR/Nvidia thing if everyone is correct, will make IR leapyears beyond any other racing title. Everytime I want to go GRRRRR at them, something like this pops up. DK and JH with his connections, and vision, I think means the bar will be set high. anyone who can turn the Marlins around is a freakin genius LOL
The chemo was worth it. 100 % death sentence without it, now, 100 % cure rate with it. I had the same Dr, and was at the same time, in the same room with a crazy bald guy riding a stationary bike, with tubes sticking out of his head. He went on to do 7 years of amazing physical stuff ( 8 counting last year, he would have won had he decided to go for himself rather than be a good teamate ) so all in all, it all worked out well. I am thankfull for that. The Dr did say to us one time " we will look back on you guys and say " what the hell did we do to you" . I could have done without that. LOL 1 day at a time.....
"The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. Again, what you see on your system, doesnt mean it is what everyone's problem is. I also invite you to look at ANY site who, because this is their thing, test, dig poke and prod new stuff , and not a single one says what you mention. Not one. It certainly is possible one or 2 would say it, but I didn't see one, not one who even mention a " flaw in the refresh rate. " Quite the opposite. They do mention Ghosting , and they tell you why and how to fix it. Some titles are not "fixable" and they tell you why.
I'll repost my high speed videos as soon as I get some video software editing done to show the frame by frames in slow motion. and yes, the burden of proof is on you, because those videos don't lie. If and when you can post a non ghosted image thru one of the glasses lenses from a known high ghosting scene, then we can revisit whether your monitor has been manufactured differently. Here's a forum attachment from me for two such images. It should be obvious that that is a highly unlikely scenario, so I would be skeptical of it, but it's possible. Otherwise, you're probably just looking at scenes that doesn't stress the ghosting problem or are insensitive to the actual problem.
" The "tude" is because you're posting bad information based on everything I know about the issue. good reason for the tude. I have seen numerous reviews and testing from legtimate sites, and most of them address the issue. Every one of the people I personally know , does not have the problem. On SOME software . Sure . Your reason is not what is mentioned. Not once. They ALL say the same thing though. Buy another monitor if you like,your choice but it seems to me bad info would be telling someone to chuck their 500.00 and just " go buy another monitor. That in MY opinion, is bad advice. I don't buy a new tire for my car if it only needs air, would be a simple way to put it. Some people buy a new car rather than replace tires. Is that the best solution? I don't think so. If that's your personal chice, have at it, but the majority of people are not, or maybe cannot just chuck a great monitor ( and shouldn't) because they are convinced that there is some great conspiracy on the part of Samsung or Nvidia to cover up some issue. Samsung is an excellent Company with great products, as is Nividia. I dread calling almost ANY tech support for any company, as we all know how that goes, and many don't know any more than the person calling. Also, some people will swear up and down that ATI is better than Nvidia, or vice versa no matter what the product is. Do what works for you . It isnt going to change your problem.
If it were a systemic problem, it would be reasonable that one could find 10 out of 100's, or at least one that says "The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes " yet, not one out of 100's I read just for the heck of it did. Not one. Many did mention the issue, said exactly what the problem was, and what they did to fix it. Then they all go on to say what a fantastic Monitor it is. If it were systemic, they would say so. They ALL say the same thing about the issue, and they tell you how to correct it. Some titles, cannot be "fixed", but it is the titles, not the monitor. I cannot run N 2003 for instances on my new computer. I can, but it Ghosts, and the graphics are all whacked out. It is not because of the monitor, it is because my Today CPU is different than mine was 4 years ago. It's the software not my computer.
You want to sell your samsung, I will gladly buy it from you, so it is not a total loss. It is your choice to go see if you can "buy" a solution. I know a guy at my racing title who convinces people they have to buy a 700.00 I-7 and over clock it to the point of explosion, you have to chase todays best toys to make it run right, , has to have 20 vid cards,etc etc you get the picture, overkill , and none of it is true. It wouldn't make a single difference in the performance of this racing title. This title doesnt take alot to run very well. Yet, he will convince people to do this ( built by him of course) and people who have spent a 1/4 of the money, and did it smartly , will out perform his systems every single time.
Bottom line is that while I respect your opinion, one would think that the many who have torn this apart and even recreated the issue, not once blame the monitor . They all say the same thing basically,They all cite the same problem cause , and they all tell you how to fix it. They all rave about the monitor, and they all say the same thing what is bad about it. Not once is " problem with the regresh rate" one of the isues. The issues are pretty much the same, and that would be the monitor base, or stand. The movie playback connector, or lack of, is the other thing they dont like about it . It is entirely consistent to the same issues of the first review out of 100's I read before I bought it , when it first came out. The monitor itself, and specifically the refresh rates and performances, to this day, are as enthusiastic and "two thumbs up " that it got before it came out. These are people in good forums like this one, and not employee's or paid off by either samsung or Nividia . I can think of only a few pre release and post release that remain consistent as they have been for this monitor . Look for yourself. Please link 5 that says " there is a fundemental flaw in the refresh rate in this monitor". It would surprise me greatly that you are the only one that caught the issue, especially when most of them address this directly, and tell you how to fix it. Possible, it has happened before, but it is rare and highly unlikely. I say that respectfully. BTW many have already tested your replacement monitors against this one. The samsung "won" in every instance. Again, I'd invite you to look for yourself. I will not point you to any particular site. They all say the same thing.
I would like to see at least 1, 5 is better for comparrison, that the samesung refresh rate is fundementally flawed.
NJ, catch you in IR . yes, the IR/Nvidia thing if everyone is correct, will make IR leapyears beyond any other racing title. Everytime I want to go GRRRRR at them, something like this pops up. DK and JH with his connections, and vision, I think means the bar will be set high. anyone who can turn the Marlins around is a freakin genius LOL
The chemo was worth it. 100 % death sentence without it, now, 100 % cure rate with it. I had the same Dr, and was at the same time, in the same room with a crazy bald guy riding a stationary bike, with tubes sticking out of his head. He went on to do 7 years of amazing physical stuff ( 8 counting last year, he would have won had he decided to go for himself rather than be a good teamate ) so all in all, it all worked out well. I am thankfull for that. The Dr did say to us one time " we will look back on you guys and say " what the hell did we do to you" . I could have done without that. LOL 1 day at a time.....
"The Samsung monitor is fundamentally flawed in the way it refreshes and nothing will change that. Again, what you see on your system, doesnt mean it is what everyone's problem is. I also invite you to look at ANY site who, because this is their thing, test, dig poke and prod new stuff , and not a single one says what you mention. Not one. It certainly is possible one or 2 would say it, but I didn't see one, not one who even mention a " flaw in the refresh rate. " Quite the opposite. They do mention Ghosting , and they tell you why and how to fix it. Some titles are not "fixable" and they tell you why.
my computer has a 3.0ghz quad core, gtx 280, 3gb of 800mhz ram. you say you're not an expert and i'm telling you for a fact, i have a very nice computer, that is not the problem
you say you get 250fps in iRacing with 3d enabled, you can't even get that many fps with 3d enabled, idk if you know what you're talking about man.
are you using the nvidia shutter glasses? are your glasses red and blue by any chance??
enough of this, post some 3d screen shots with the fps meter on so we can see your 3d settings and your fps, also show a video of the no ghosting with your monitor. even with your screen shots we'll still see ghosting.
i don't want to sound so blunt, but all of us here on the forums have similar performance hits, similar issues yet you have none. you, and your 20 friends have no ghosting with your samsung monitors in 3d, and you take very little hit when running in 3d. this sounds completely unbelievable to me. you seem to have a magical setup that no one else seems to have. the more you post the more i find it hard to believe, either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're one lucky sob
now before you get all bent out of shape and say you were just trying to help and i can kiss your ass, chill!!!! if your buddy knows a fix please post it, i'll be the first to report back and if it indeed does fix my problems i'll be the first to apologize and owe you a great deal of gratitude. but until i see proof i'm sorry i just don't believe what you say.
post them 3d screen shots and the video so we can all see, action's speak louder then words.
my computer has a 3.0ghz quad core, gtx 280, 3gb of 800mhz ram. you say you're not an expert and i'm telling you for a fact, i have a very nice computer, that is not the problem
you say you get 250fps in iRacing with 3d enabled, you can't even get that many fps with 3d enabled, idk if you know what you're talking about man.
are you using the nvidia shutter glasses? are your glasses red and blue by any chance??
enough of this, post some 3d screen shots with the fps meter on so we can see your 3d settings and your fps, also show a video of the no ghosting with your monitor. even with your screen shots we'll still see ghosting.
i don't want to sound so blunt, but all of us here on the forums have similar performance hits, similar issues yet you have none. you, and your 20 friends have no ghosting with your samsung monitors in 3d, and you take very little hit when running in 3d. this sounds completely unbelievable to me. you seem to have a magical setup that no one else seems to have. the more you post the more i find it hard to believe, either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're one lucky sob
now before you get all bent out of shape and say you were just trying to help and i can kiss your ass, chill!!!! if your buddy knows a fix please post it, i'll be the first to report back and if it indeed does fix my problems i'll be the first to apologize and owe you a great deal of gratitude. but until i see proof i'm sorry i just don't believe what you say.
post them 3d screen shots and the video so we can all see, action's speak louder then words.
another thing, you keep saying they mention the problem and fix, so did they have ghosting as well?? clearly there were issues and i don't trust review sites. most of them get these things for free to test and doubt they'll be on the list if they bash the crap out of a product, jmho.
can you give me some links to these forums and site's you're talking about?? i know you said you weren't but you are the one without the problem here, it is you who should be leading us to salvation.
another thing, you keep saying they mention the problem and fix, so did they have ghosting as well?? clearly there were issues and i don't trust review sites. most of them get these things for free to test and doubt they'll be on the list if they bash the crap out of a product, jmho.
can you give me some links to these forums and site's you're talking about?? i know you said you weren't but you are the one without the problem here, it is you who should be leading us to salvation.
What should have been an expensive but fantastic investment has turned into disaster.
I've been struggling flickering problems to which I was advised to disable one of my gpus. This fixed the issue great, but now I have lost good performance.
Then I stumbled across this thread with regards to ghosting on the Samsung 2233....and sure enough I booted up L4D2 and the ghosting is there at the top AND bottom of my screen, but not in the middle.
Has this purchase been a complete waste of time? Its amazing to see it working but theres so many flaws that it's left a bitter taste in my mouth. If the problems are as that have suggested that its the monitor, surely that cant be fixed via firmware update and would require ANOTHER investment into a monitor? Or could it really be fixed with a sync slider?
I dispair :(
Dave
What should have been an expensive but fantastic investment has turned into disaster.
I've been struggling flickering problems to which I was advised to disable one of my gpus. This fixed the issue great, but now I have lost good performance.
Then I stumbled across this thread with regards to ghosting on the Samsung 2233....and sure enough I booted up L4D2 and the ghosting is there at the top AND bottom of my screen, but not in the middle.
Has this purchase been a complete waste of time? Its amazing to see it working but theres so many flaws that it's left a bitter taste in my mouth. If the problems are as that have suggested that its the monitor, surely that cant be fixed via firmware update and would require ANOTHER investment into a monitor? Or could it really be fixed with a sync slider?
I dispair :(
Dave
"Vision 3D top of screen severe ghosting"
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The second pair of glasses, not changed the picture
is the fault of the monitor?
"Vision 3D top of screen severe ghosting"
The second pair of glasses, not changed the picture
is the fault of the monitor?
- as you mention, we need an awful high resolution to match up with full HD. The highest resolution available to customers are 2560x1600 @ 30" - the prices still hover close to 2000,- USD on standard monitors - hardly an option for the avarage user.
- There are solutions like the IZ3D panels that use standard TFT panel with 2 layers of polarized filters in front. They need careful trim of polarizers in glasses and display to avoid color mismatch/color ghosting, additionally they loose some brightness due to multiple layers of filters. Also even IZ3D the pioneer of this technology was not successful in putting the 26" announced a year ago to market.
- nvidia does not support this (yet).
- displays in use to manufacture standars LCD TV sets allready support 120Hz and above, all needed to make a 3D ready TV is a different circuitry to drive the panel and thus much easier and likely route for the manufacturers to choose - preannounced Sony Bravias e.g. use shutter technology.
on a side note, german computer magazine ct' had a test display setup at IFA where people were able to A/B test available technologies with surprisingly clear preference of all participants for the shutter technology (mind, with a Samsung 2233RZ !)[/quote]
i've never said shutter technology is not good, if it's bugfree probably it's better than polarized one, the problem of this technology comes out of the box, sync problems, conflicts with neon lamps, infrared emitter conflicts, uniformity of shuttering over the lens, i mean doing a bug free version of this technology for a home use is not easy.
While polarized technology, if the monitor works, 3d works. no problems at all.
I honestly don't care much about brigthness or color realism, i would love to be able to sacrifice some of them in order to have a bugfree 3d experience.
On 14th Jan i will go to see the movie Avatar in a new cinema equipped with polarized technology, don't know if it's linear or circular, it's long time i don't see polarized technology in action, i will look hard into it, as far as i can remember i didn't notice any ghosting in IMAX theatres ages ago.
I've seen Ice Age 3 on a shutter glass technology cinema btw, honestly it was perfect, hope one day we can get the same perfection at home.
- as you mention, we need an awful high resolution to match up with full HD. The highest resolution available to customers are 2560x1600 @ 30" - the prices still hover close to 2000,- USD on standard monitors - hardly an option for the avarage user.
- There are solutions like the IZ3D panels that use standard TFT panel with 2 layers of polarized filters in front. They need careful trim of polarizers in glasses and display to avoid color mismatch/color ghosting, additionally they loose some brightness due to multiple layers of filters. Also even IZ3D the pioneer of this technology was not successful in putting the 26" announced a year ago to market.
- nvidia does not support this (yet).
- displays in use to manufacture standars LCD TV sets allready support 120Hz and above, all needed to make a 3D ready TV is a different circuitry to drive the panel and thus much easier and likely route for the manufacturers to choose - preannounced Sony Bravias e.g. use shutter technology.
on a side note, german computer magazine ct' had a test display setup at IFA where people were able to A/B test available technologies with surprisingly clear preference of all participants for the shutter technology (mind, with a Samsung 2233RZ !)
i've never said shutter technology is not good, if it's bugfree probably it's better than polarized one, the problem of this technology comes out of the box, sync problems, conflicts with neon lamps, infrared emitter conflicts, uniformity of shuttering over the lens, i mean doing a bug free version of this technology for a home use is not easy.
While polarized technology, if the monitor works, 3d works. no problems at all.
I honestly don't care much about brigthness or color realism, i would love to be able to sacrifice some of them in order to have a bugfree 3d experience.
On 14th Jan i will go to see the movie Avatar in a new cinema equipped with polarized technology, don't know if it's linear or circular, it's long time i don't see polarized technology in action, i will look hard into it, as far as i can remember i didn't notice any ghosting in IMAX theatres ages ago.
I've seen Ice Age 3 on a shutter glass technology cinema btw, honestly it was perfect, hope one day we can get the same perfection at home.
By the way, I have eliminated the glasses as an issue. If I view a JPS file in *any* JPS viewer, I have the same problem, but if I scroll the image to the bottom of the screen - the previously-ghosted top half of the image appears in perfect 3D. I also tried another LCD monitor (Philips 19" LCD, about 3 years old) which was actually worse! It had the problem on 50% of the screen! Next I will try my CRT, and hope for the best (will also allow me to run much higher refresh rate).
I have an idea that may help some of you. I have never used nVidia's 3D system, but it works on a similar principle so I'm sure this will apply. In order to reduce the problem at the top of the screen, adjust the convergence so that things that are far away are convergent (i.e.left and right image lie on top of one another). In general, things at the top portion of the screen are far away, so if you adjust convergence so that nearer items "pop out" of the screen, then things far away will not have very different left and right images, and thus, images at the top of the screen will generally be clear and "ghost" free. I did this with rFactor and that works brilliantly. Infact, I only realised the "top half ghosting" problem after viewing some JPS files. Even the screengrabs I took of rFactor look fine int the JSP viewer because of the convergence at the top. For those where both the top and bottom are a problem, this might not be of much help. I'd imagine for them, their monitors refresh the image from the center outwards (or outside inwards to the center, whichever the case is).
I'll be staying away from that Samsung monitor. I'd assumed any 120Hz panel will be capable of proper full-screen 3D, but it seems I was wrong. I did read on some forums that not all 120Hz panels are made alike, and they have different methods of progressive scan, with some "cheating" to achieve the 120Hz figure. I'd be interested to know which panels (make and model) work perfectly so that I can specifically go and purchase one of those.
By the way, I have eliminated the glasses as an issue. If I view a JPS file in *any* JPS viewer, I have the same problem, but if I scroll the image to the bottom of the screen - the previously-ghosted top half of the image appears in perfect 3D. I also tried another LCD monitor (Philips 19" LCD, about 3 years old) which was actually worse! It had the problem on 50% of the screen! Next I will try my CRT, and hope for the best (will also allow me to run much higher refresh rate).
I have an idea that may help some of you. I have never used nVidia's 3D system, but it works on a similar principle so I'm sure this will apply. In order to reduce the problem at the top of the screen, adjust the convergence so that things that are far away are convergent (i.e.left and right image lie on top of one another). In general, things at the top portion of the screen are far away, so if you adjust convergence so that nearer items "pop out" of the screen, then things far away will not have very different left and right images, and thus, images at the top of the screen will generally be clear and "ghost" free. I did this with rFactor and that works brilliantly. Infact, I only realised the "top half ghosting" problem after viewing some JPS files. Even the screengrabs I took of rFactor look fine int the JSP viewer because of the convergence at the top. For those where both the top and bottom are a problem, this might not be of much help. I'd imagine for them, their monitors refresh the image from the center outwards (or outside inwards to the center, whichever the case is).
I'll be staying away from that Samsung monitor. I'd assumed any 120Hz panel will be capable of proper full-screen 3D, but it seems I was wrong. I did read on some forums that not all 120Hz panels are made alike, and they have different methods of progressive scan, with some "cheating" to achieve the 120Hz figure. I'd be interested to know which panels (make and model) work perfectly so that I can specifically go and purchase one of those.
having same prob with my 2233 rz: Severe ghosting in top part of display.
Just wanted to let you know that i had possibility today at CES to look at LGs announced 23" FHD monitor.
Unfortunately, it shows exactly the same problem with the 3D Vision (please see attached).
It´s not as severe, but still clearly noticable - game running was Batman Arkanum Asylum
BR
[attachment=15257:ghosting7.jpg]
having same prob with my 2233 rz: Severe ghosting in top part of display.
Just wanted to let you know that i had possibility today at CES to look at LGs announced 23" FHD monitor.
Unfortunately, it shows exactly the same problem with the 3D Vision (please see attached).
It´s not as severe, but still clearly noticable - game running was Batman Arkanum Asylum
BR
[attachment=15257:ghosting7.jpg]
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.[/quote]
Hi Toby, thankyou for your posts, it has given me some insight to the problem at hand.
My conclusion is that the problem has to do with the combination of shutter glasses + LCD monitor technology. My guess is that unlike a CRT, where during the VBI the image has faded off before the next frame is drawn, the LCD keeps the old frame up, while overwriting the new frame from the top down (hence eliminating flicker, even at 60Hz). The shutter glasses only switch around the time the bottom of the screen is being updated, which results in the top of the image having severe crosstalk. If the shutters switched at the top, then there would be severe cross-talk at bottom, etc. The solution might be to have both shutters closed while the frame is being updated on the screen. The duration for this will be different depending on the monitor, but if there was a configurable option in the driver for this, one would be able to adjust this crosstalk out.
I am sure that everyone experiences this problem to some degree, some don't notice it, others have set their convergence as I've suggested and have thus not seen the problem, and yet others may have LCD monitors that are so good they do not suffer from this problem. If you think you don't have this problem, try viewing the nVidia sample JPS file for Burnout which shows a car busy flipping over, and look at the top of the screen (where the bridge is) and see if it's coherent. For me, everything including and above the driver's seat is incoherent, everything below looks fabulous.
Hi Toby, thankyou for your posts, it has given me some insight to the problem at hand.
Depending on the game, either the nVidia or the iZ3D stereo driver generate better results, so it's good to be able to use both!
Depending on the game, either the nVidia or the iZ3D stereo driver generate better results, so it's good to be able to use both!