A HUGE PROBLEM DISCOVERED WITH 3D VISION! ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS?
1 / 4
Help! I wonder if anyone knows about this.....
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
[quote name='Cheezeman' date='26 September 2011 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1317048551' post='1298879']
That's a problem with that particular game, it most certainly does not happen in most other games.
[/quote]
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
[quote name='Cheezeman' date='26 September 2011 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1317048551' post='1298879']
That's a problem with that particular game, it most certainly does not happen in most other games.
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1317050691' post='1298894']
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
[/quote]
Yes, I'm pretty much pinned at 60FPS (per eye) in BC2 and any other game I've tried and when it does drop below 60 it does so dynamically, it does NOT just go to 30FPS. It's a problem with that game.
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1317050691' post='1298894']
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
Yes, I'm pretty much pinned at 60FPS (per eye) in BC2 and any other game I've tried and when it does drop below 60 it does so dynamically, it does NOT just go to 30FPS. It's a problem with that game.
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1317043408' post='1298843']
Help! I wonder if anyone knows about this.....
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
[/quote]
120FPS and 120HZ are not the same:
- Your monitor will always work at 120Hz even if you game renders 1 frame per second.
- Your game renders from 1-140 fps - your monitor will work all the time at 120Hz and displays 1-120fps (if Vsync is ON).
in 3D you will always have 60 HZ for your glasses and 120hz for the monitor.
You game is capped at 60fps because of VSYNC (otherwise the glasses and monitor wouuld get out of sync).
I never heard nor experienced the thing you describe as "30fps and 60fps only"
Basically what I am saying... if your game lowers its FPS the Monitor and Glasses DON"T LOWER their refresh rate (HZ).
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1317043408' post='1298843']
Help! I wonder if anyone knows about this.....
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
120FPS and 120HZ are not the same:
- Your monitor will always work at 120Hz even if you game renders 1 frame per second.
- Your game renders from 1-140 fps - your monitor will work all the time at 120Hz and displays 1-120fps (if Vsync is ON).
in 3D you will always have 60 HZ for your glasses and 120hz for the monitor.
You game is capped at 60fps because of VSYNC (otherwise the glasses and monitor wouuld get out of sync).
I never heard nor experienced the thing you describe as "30fps and 60fps only"
Basically what I am saying... if your game lowers its FPS the Monitor and Glasses DON"T LOWER their refresh rate (HZ).
Cheers,
Helifax
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
With no AA, I *usually* see 60fps (1920x1080, Ultra settings, triple buffering) on a single GTX 580 at 905MHz.
With AA on, fps is only 30-60
Turn off AA, especially with a non-overclocked GTX 460.
I would also turn off Fraps and install a gpu monitoring utility such as Afterburner.
it will show you vram usage, gpu usage, gpu voltage, temperature, clock frequency, ...
Common mistake made by newcomers to 3d gaming...
Why do you think lot's of people here own TWO 480 or 580's...it's to get that 60 fps per eye !
Your monitor is limited to 120hz and in a way 120 fps,but fps can drop ...not the 120hz.
Vsync is there to be sure fps doesn't go beyond 120fps because your monitor will start to go out of sync when using 3d,because it's running at 120hz.
Well I'm not so good in explaining why..because I'm not english...most people here can...
I don't worry bout it. my sli 570's plow through games in 3d. Ready and waiting on BF3...
FPS in 3d works just like any other system in 2d. you must be getting confused between fps/hz. The monitor will always run at 120hz. FRAMERATE will fluctuate depending on the power of the graphics card. Just like in 2d, you can have smooth fps or choppy fps. Neither of which influences the REFRESH RATE of the monitor which is constant. If you really want to guarantee a good framerate in all your games, go SLI. Pop in another card.
In SLI you actually get better 3d performance. It's not a solid 50% performance hit, like with one card. Theres a bit of overhead. I get better framerate in 3d SLI, than the same game in 2d on a single card. It's more like a 25-30% drop. I've tested this on quite a few games.
I don't worry bout it. my sli 570's plow through games in 3d. Ready and waiting on BF3...
FPS in 3d works just like any other system in 2d. you must be getting confused between fps/hz. The monitor will always run at 120hz. FRAMERATE will fluctuate depending on the power of the graphics card. Just like in 2d, you can have smooth fps or choppy fps. Neither of which influences the REFRESH RATE of the monitor which is constant. If you really want to guarantee a good framerate in all your games, go SLI. Pop in another card.
In SLI you actually get better 3d performance. It's not a solid 50% performance hit, like with one card. Theres a bit of overhead. I get better framerate in 3d SLI, than the same game in 2d on a single card. It's more like a 25-30% drop. I've tested this on quite a few games.
AsRock X58 Extreme6 mobo
Intel Core-i7 950 @ 4ghz
12gb Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 780 3gb
Corsair TX 950w PSU
NZXT Phantom Red/Black Case
3d Vision 1 w/ Samsung 2233rz Monitor
3d Vision 2 w/ ASUS VG278HE Monitor
[quote name='helifax' date='26 September 2011 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1317052750' post='1298920']I never heard nor experienced the thing you describe as "30fps and 60fps only"[/quote]
I believe he's (partially) referring to buffer flip stepping incurred by vertical synchronization. With vertical sync, the back buffer won't be flipped into the display buffer until it is completely rendered and the display is preparing to redraw, meaning there is a consequence for falling beneath the poll rate. When that happens with double buffered vertical sync, the consequence is that the GPU will be forced to wait for one additional frame because it must finish rendering the new frame before it is eligible to be displayed. In other words, when even just below the refresh rate (59 FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, 119 FPS on a 120 Hz, etc,) a new frame is only being shown every other frame - i.e., at 30 FPS. The lower the frame rate drops, the more severe this becomes.
A simple formula you can simulate this with is: [i][b]x[/b]/(ceiling([b]x[/b]/[b]y[/b]))[/i], where [b]x[/b] is the poll rate and [b]y[/b] is the frame rate. You can play around with it at [url="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=120%2Fceil%28120%2F119%29"]Wolfram[/url] to get a better understanding of the concept.
[quote name='helifax' date='26 September 2011 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1317052750' post='1298920']I never heard nor experienced the thing you describe as "30fps and 60fps only"
I believe he's (partially) referring to buffer flip stepping incurred by vertical synchronization. With vertical sync, the back buffer won't be flipped into the display buffer until it is completely rendered and the display is preparing to redraw, meaning there is a consequence for falling beneath the poll rate. When that happens with double buffered vertical sync, the consequence is that the GPU will be forced to wait for one additional frame because it must finish rendering the new frame before it is eligible to be displayed. In other words, when even just below the refresh rate (59 FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, 119 FPS on a 120 Hz, etc,) a new frame is only being shown every other frame - i.e., at 30 FPS. The lower the frame rate drops, the more severe this becomes.
A simple formula you can simulate this with is: x/(ceiling(x/y)), where x is the poll rate and y is the frame rate. You can play around with it at Wolfram to get a better understanding of the concept.
Some off you think that 'multiples of refresh' rate means I think it changes!lol.
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.
Some off you think that 'multiples of refresh' rate means I think it changes!lol.
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1317062563' post='1299018']Some off you think that 'multiples of refresh' rate means I think it changes!lol.
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.[/quote]
Hmm interesting... I was not aware of this...but it makes sense..
I am not using Fraps... I am using Afterburner.. and I did notice from time to time a drop below 60fps but not like this:
60fps - 59,58,56,55.....30,31,32,33,34,35......60fps (in a few seconds) Mathematically everything seems OK and correct but personally I never experienced this...Maybe it has to do with using SLI cards....and parallel processing....
If you can provide a small recording of the phenomenon it would be awesome! (Maybe others like will learn from it). After all, we all learn as long as we live, no?:)
[img]http://forums.nvidia.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif[/img]
EDIT: Forgot to mention I am running a GTX590 card in 3D Surround and never experienced (or wasn't aware) this, or maybe the SLI can save you from this headache:)
Tested the above statement I can say my frames osscilate from 49-52 in different games (Monitor refresh rate is 110Mz) in 3D Vision Surround on my SLI GPU's. So maybe the thing you are referring is only valid for a single GPU?
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1317062563' post='1299018']Some off you think that 'multiples of refresh' rate means I think it changes!lol.
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.
Hmm interesting... I was not aware of this...but it makes sense..
I am not using Fraps... I am using Afterburner.. and I did notice from time to time a drop below 60fps but not like this:
60fps - 59,58,56,55.....30,31,32,33,34,35......60fps (in a few seconds) Mathematically everything seems OK and correct but personally I never experienced this...Maybe it has to do with using SLI cards....and parallel processing....
If you can provide a small recording of the phenomenon it would be awesome! (Maybe others like will learn from it). After all, we all learn as long as we live, no?:)
EDIT: Forgot to mention I am running a GTX590 card in 3D Surround and never experienced (or wasn't aware) this, or maybe the SLI can save you from this headache:)
Tested the above statement I can say my frames osscilate from 49-52 in different games (Monitor refresh rate is 110Mz) in 3D Vision Surround on my SLI GPU's. So maybe the thing you are referring is only valid for a single GPU?
Cheers,
Helifax
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
Well done my son. Well done - will write more soon.
Your post is in need of re-writing! I got the main point (agreement) - but not the rest.
So here is my MAIN point - and why it's relevant to you!(everyone using 3d)
Anyway let's say a gtx 460 user gets 100 fps in 2d.
He would get 30 fps (per eye) in 3d.
If he upgrades to a 560ti - he gets 119 fps in 2d.
And STILL gets 30 fps in 3d.
Rendering the upgrade useless!
[u]Remember[/u] - you need at least 120 fps in 2d to get 60 fps (per eye) in 3d.
[b]SO[/b] getting an upgrade for 3d is harder than it seems!
If you can supply fraps pics with 60 in the corner, then do so.
Hopefully it's just hard reset and most games achieve 60 at full load!
I did two quick tests because i have not seen this with 3D vision, only 2D games with V-Sync but without triple buffering and it is very annoying. I have always enabled TB if it's in games Video settings. These two that i tested do not had TB in game settings, i have not forcet it either. Used latest Fraps full.
The Witcher 2, smooth frame rate transition. Most of the time fps was 40-50 at the place i tested. No 60--->30 thing here.
Mafia 2, same as Witcher but frame rate was 40-60.
I did two quick tests because i have not seen this with 3D vision, only 2D games with V-Sync but without triple buffering and it is very annoying. I have always enabled TB if it's in games Video settings. These two that i tested do not had TB in game settings, i have not forcet it either. Used latest Fraps full.
The Witcher 2, smooth frame rate transition. Most of the time fps was 40-50 at the place i tested. No 60--->30 thing here.
Mafia 2, same as Witcher but frame rate was 40-60.
[quote name='deathorb' date='26 September 2011 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1317063563' post='1299031']
Anyway let's say a gtx 460 user gets 100 fps in 2d.
He would get 30 fps (per eye) in 3d.
If he upgrades to a 560ti - he gets 119 fps in 2d.
And STILL gets 30 fps in 3d.
Rendering the upgrade useless!
[u]Remember[/u] - you need at least 120 fps in 2d to get 60 fps (per eye) in 3d.
[b]SO[/b] getting an upgrade for 3d is harder than it seems!
[/quote]
Turn on triple buffering in the nvidia control panel (global settings).
It should reduce severe fps drops.
120fps in 2D is not quite a guarantee of 60 fps in 3D Vision.
You could run out of vram in 3D, or run out of some other important gpu resource.
[s]The cpu only needs to process a little more than 60fps in 2D to see 60fps in 3D.[/s]
Spend more on graphics than on the cpu. That's what I do.
Edit: see my 2D --> 3D fps test results here.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=211116&view=findpost&p=1299815
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard
That's a problem with that particular game, it most certainly does not happen in most other games.
[/quote]
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
That's a problem with that particular game, it most certainly does not happen in most other games.
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
[/quote]
Yes, I'm pretty much pinned at 60FPS (per eye) in BC2 and any other game I've tried and when it does drop below 60 it does so dynamically, it does NOT just go to 30FPS. It's a problem with that game.
U got proof? Has fraps read over 30 fps for you? On what game? Hard to believe you - sorry!
And I was thinking more along the lines of "Will another card (or upgrade) get over 30 fps per eye? That means over 120 fps in 2d!" Is anyone getting 60 fps in 3d - during combat/gameplay?
Yes, I'm pretty much pinned at 60FPS (per eye) in BC2 and any other game I've tried and when it does drop below 60 it does so dynamically, it does NOT just go to 30FPS. It's a problem with that game.
i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard
Help! I wonder if anyone knows about this.....
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
[/quote]
120FPS and 120HZ are not the same:
- Your monitor will always work at 120Hz even if you game renders 1 frame per second.
- Your game renders from 1-140 fps - your monitor will work all the time at 120Hz and displays 1-120fps (if Vsync is ON).
in 3D you will always have 60 HZ for your glasses and 120hz for the monitor.
You game is capped at 60fps because of VSYNC (otherwise the glasses and monitor wouuld get out of sync).
I never heard nor experienced the thing you describe as "30fps and 60fps only"
Basically what I am saying... if your game lowers its FPS the Monitor and Glasses DON"T LOWER their refresh rate (HZ).
Cheers,
Helifax
Help! I wonder if anyone knows about this.....
3d vision (glasses required) is only capable of 30 or 60 frames per second (per eye).
This is because of the forced v-sync (needed) - and will only operate on multiples of 120 (monitors Hz)
This means that anyone upgrading and hoping to get 60 per eye - probably will not!
This is because you need over 120 fps in 2d - to stay at 60 per eye - in 3d,
a single frame lower, and it will drop to 30!
This often feels sluggish, because 30 per eye is like 30 overall!(not 60!)
Compare that to say 100+ fps overall in 2d, and I feel a little bit annoyed!
Here is an easy to try, experiment, using fraps and any game -
"On hard reset in 2d - I got 120+ fps whilst standing still.
I got just below 120 fps whilst in combat.
With 3d enabled - I got 60 fps whilst standing still.
I got 30 fps whilst in combat.
I wondered if triple buffering or overclocking my 460 would help.
Despite this, and playing at 720p with low settings - I still mainly got, a sluggish 30 per eye."
Well that's a bit annoying - so close to 60 per eye, yet so fraggin far.
This will likely be the same for most of you - post your results!
Try to achieve 30 and 60 - look at a wall perhaps for 60!
And yes - fraps shows fps per eye, not overall.
And no - 3d at 30 per eye doesn't feel as smooth as 60 fps in 2d
120FPS and 120HZ are not the same:
- Your monitor will always work at 120Hz even if you game renders 1 frame per second.
- Your game renders from 1-140 fps - your monitor will work all the time at 120Hz and displays 1-120fps (if Vsync is ON).
in 3D you will always have 60 HZ for your glasses and 120hz for the monitor.
You game is capped at 60fps because of VSYNC (otherwise the glasses and monitor wouuld get out of sync).
I never heard nor experienced the thing you describe as "30fps and 60fps only"
Basically what I am saying... if your game lowers its FPS the Monitor and Glasses DON"T LOWER their refresh rate (HZ).
Cheers,
Helifax
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
With no AA, I *usually* see 60fps (1920x1080, Ultra settings, triple buffering) on a single GTX 580 at 905MHz.
With AA on, fps is only 30-60
Turn off AA, especially with a non-overclocked GTX 460.
I would also turn off Fraps and install a gpu monitoring utility such as Afterburner.
it will show you vram usage, gpu usage, gpu voltage, temperature, clock frequency, ...
With no AA, I *usually* see 60fps (1920x1080, Ultra settings, triple buffering) on a single GTX 580 at 905MHz.
With AA on, fps is only 30-60
Turn off AA, especially with a non-overclocked GTX 460.
I would also turn off Fraps and install a gpu monitoring utility such as Afterburner.
it will show you vram usage, gpu usage, gpu voltage, temperature, clock frequency, ...
Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/
[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]
Why do you think lot's of people here own TWO 480 or 580's...it's to get that 60 fps per eye !
Your monitor is limited to 120hz and in a way 120 fps,but fps can drop ...not the 120hz.
Vsync is there to be sure fps doesn't go beyond 120fps because your monitor will start to go out of sync when using 3d,because it's running at 120hz.
Well I'm not so good in explaining why..because I'm not english...most people here can...
Why do you think lot's of people here own TWO 480 or 580's...it's to get that 60 fps per eye !
Your monitor is limited to 120hz and in a way 120 fps,but fps can drop ...not the 120hz.
Vsync is there to be sure fps doesn't go beyond 120fps because your monitor will start to go out of sync when using 3d,because it's running at 120hz.
Well I'm not so good in explaining why..because I'm not english...most people here can...
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
FPS in 3d works just like any other system in 2d. you must be getting confused between fps/hz. The monitor will always run at 120hz. FRAMERATE will fluctuate depending on the power of the graphics card. Just like in 2d, you can have smooth fps or choppy fps. Neither of which influences the REFRESH RATE of the monitor which is constant. If you really want to guarantee a good framerate in all your games, go SLI. Pop in another card.
In SLI you actually get better 3d performance. It's not a solid 50% performance hit, like with one card. Theres a bit of overhead. I get better framerate in 3d SLI, than the same game in 2d on a single card. It's more like a 25-30% drop. I've tested this on quite a few games.
FPS in 3d works just like any other system in 2d. you must be getting confused between fps/hz. The monitor will always run at 120hz. FRAMERATE will fluctuate depending on the power of the graphics card. Just like in 2d, you can have smooth fps or choppy fps. Neither of which influences the REFRESH RATE of the monitor which is constant. If you really want to guarantee a good framerate in all your games, go SLI. Pop in another card.
In SLI you actually get better 3d performance. It's not a solid 50% performance hit, like with one card. Theres a bit of overhead. I get better framerate in 3d SLI, than the same game in 2d on a single card. It's more like a 25-30% drop. I've tested this on quite a few games.
AsRock X58 Extreme6 mobo
Intel Core-i7 950 @ 4ghz
12gb Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 780 3gb
Corsair TX 950w PSU
NZXT Phantom Red/Black Case
3d Vision 1 w/ Samsung 2233rz Monitor
3d Vision 2 w/ ASUS VG278HE Monitor
I believe he's (partially) referring to buffer flip stepping incurred by vertical synchronization. With vertical sync, the back buffer won't be flipped into the display buffer until it is completely rendered and the display is preparing to redraw, meaning there is a consequence for falling beneath the poll rate. When that happens with double buffered vertical sync, the consequence is that the GPU will be forced to wait for one additional frame because it must finish rendering the new frame before it is eligible to be displayed. In other words, when even just below the refresh rate (59 FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, 119 FPS on a 120 Hz, etc,) a new frame is only being shown every other frame - i.e., at 30 FPS. The lower the frame rate drops, the more severe this becomes.
A simple formula you can simulate this with is: [i][b]x[/b]/(ceiling([b]x[/b]/[b]y[/b]))[/i], where [b]x[/b] is the poll rate and [b]y[/b] is the frame rate. You can play around with it at [url="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=120%2Fceil%28120%2F119%29"]Wolfram[/url] to get a better understanding of the concept.
I believe he's (partially) referring to buffer flip stepping incurred by vertical synchronization. With vertical sync, the back buffer won't be flipped into the display buffer until it is completely rendered and the display is preparing to redraw, meaning there is a consequence for falling beneath the poll rate. When that happens with double buffered vertical sync, the consequence is that the GPU will be forced to wait for one additional frame because it must finish rendering the new frame before it is eligible to be displayed. In other words, when even just below the refresh rate (59 FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, 119 FPS on a 120 Hz, etc,) a new frame is only being shown every other frame - i.e., at 30 FPS. The lower the frame rate drops, the more severe this becomes.
A simple formula you can simulate this with is: x/(ceiling(x/y)), where x is the poll rate and y is the frame rate. You can play around with it at Wolfram to get a better understanding of the concept.
NVIDIA | Content & Technology
Technical Marketing Analyst, Gaming Products and Technologies
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.[/quote]
Hmm interesting... I was not aware of this...but it makes sense..
I am not using Fraps... I am using Afterburner.. and I did notice from time to time a drop below 60fps but not like this:
60fps - 59,58,56,55.....30,31,32,33,34,35......60fps (in a few seconds) Mathematically everything seems OK and correct but personally I never experienced this...Maybe it has to do with using SLI cards....and parallel processing....
If you can provide a small recording of the phenomenon it would be awesome! (Maybe others like will learn from it). After all, we all learn as long as we live, no?:)
[img]http://forums.nvidia.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif[/img]
EDIT: Forgot to mention I am running a GTX590 card in 3D Surround and never experienced (or wasn't aware) this, or maybe the SLI can save you from this headache:)
Tested the above statement I can say my frames osscilate from 49-52 in different games (Monitor refresh rate is 110Mz) in 3D Vision Surround on my SLI GPU's. So maybe the thing you are referring is only valid for a single GPU?
Cheers,
Helifax
Above guy is clever
And v-sync has to withhold frames whilst remaining in step with the refresh rate. that means 60 fps per eye is 120 fps overall - which equals the monitors refresh rate! Now you've learned that lets move on.
So at 30 fps per eye - thats 60 fps overall - v-sync holds 1 gpu frame for every 2 monitor cycles. O.K?
It can't hold 1 gpu frame for say 2.5 cycles.
Good (I hope), so lets see, oh yes - any benchmarks with fraps at 60? I doubt it but send a pic.
P.S. don't face a wall - do something and keep 60. It should go 30 or 60. Prove me wrong. BTW when fraps rapidly alternates between 30 and 60 - those un-constant numbers are to be ignored.
Hmm interesting... I was not aware of this...but it makes sense..
I am not using Fraps... I am using Afterburner.. and I did notice from time to time a drop below 60fps but not like this:
60fps - 59,58,56,55.....30,31,32,33,34,35......60fps (in a few seconds) Mathematically everything seems OK and correct but personally I never experienced this...Maybe it has to do with using SLI cards....and parallel processing....
If you can provide a small recording of the phenomenon it would be awesome! (Maybe others like will learn from it). After all, we all learn as long as we live, no?:)
EDIT: Forgot to mention I am running a GTX590 card in 3D Surround and never experienced (or wasn't aware) this, or maybe the SLI can save you from this headache:)
Tested the above statement I can say my frames osscilate from 49-52 in different games (Monitor refresh rate is 110Mz) in 3D Vision Surround on my SLI GPU's. So maybe the thing you are referring is only valid for a single GPU?
Cheers,
Helifax
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
Your post is in need of re-writing! I got the main point (agreement) - but not the rest.
So here is my MAIN point - and why it's relevant to you!(everyone using 3d)
Anyway let's say a gtx 460 user gets 100 fps in 2d.
He would get 30 fps (per eye) in 3d.
If he upgrades to a 560ti - he gets 119 fps in 2d.
And STILL gets 30 fps in 3d.
Rendering the upgrade useless!
[u]Remember[/u] - you need at least 120 fps in 2d to get 60 fps (per eye) in 3d.
[b]SO[/b] getting an upgrade for 3d is harder than it seems!
If you can supply fraps pics with 60 in the corner, then do so.
Hopefully it's just hard reset and most games achieve 60 at full load!
Your post is in need of re-writing! I got the main point (agreement) - but not the rest.
So here is my MAIN point - and why it's relevant to you!(everyone using 3d)
Anyway let's say a gtx 460 user gets 100 fps in 2d.
He would get 30 fps (per eye) in 3d.
If he upgrades to a 560ti - he gets 119 fps in 2d.
And STILL gets 30 fps in 3d.
Rendering the upgrade useless!
Remember - you need at least 120 fps in 2d to get 60 fps (per eye) in 3d.
SO getting an upgrade for 3d is harder than it seems!
If you can supply fraps pics with 60 in the corner, then do so.
Hopefully it's just hard reset and most games achieve 60 at full load!
The Witcher 2, smooth frame rate transition. Most of the time fps was 40-50 at the place i tested. No 60--->30 thing here.
Mafia 2, same as Witcher but frame rate was 40-60.
I have single 470GTX
Hope this help.
The Witcher 2, smooth frame rate transition. Most of the time fps was 40-50 at the place i tested. No 60--->30 thing here.
Mafia 2, same as Witcher but frame rate was 40-60.
I have single 470GTX
Hope this help.
Doesn't jump from 30-60 !
Doesn't jump from 30-60 !
Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.
Anyway let's say a gtx 460 user gets 100 fps in 2d.
He would get 30 fps (per eye) in 3d.
If he upgrades to a 560ti - he gets 119 fps in 2d.
And STILL gets 30 fps in 3d.
Rendering the upgrade useless!
[u]Remember[/u] - you need at least 120 fps in 2d to get 60 fps (per eye) in 3d.
[b]SO[/b] getting an upgrade for 3d is harder than it seems!
[/quote]
Turn on triple buffering in the nvidia control panel (global settings).
It should reduce severe fps drops.
120fps in 2D is not quite a guarantee of 60 fps in 3D Vision.
You could run out of vram in 3D, or run out of some other important gpu resource.
[s]The cpu only needs to process a little more than 60fps in 2D to see 60fps in 3D.[/s]
Spend more on graphics than on the cpu. That's what I do.
Edit: see my 2D --> 3D fps test results here.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=211116&view=findpost&p=1299815
Anyway let's say a gtx 460 user gets 100 fps in 2d.
He would get 30 fps (per eye) in 3d.
If he upgrades to a 560ti - he gets 119 fps in 2d.
And STILL gets 30 fps in 3d.
Rendering the upgrade useless!
Remember - you need at least 120 fps in 2d to get 60 fps (per eye) in 3d.
SO getting an upgrade for 3d is harder than it seems!
Turn on triple buffering in the nvidia control panel (global settings).
It should reduce severe fps drops.
120fps in 2D is not quite a guarantee of 60 fps in 3D Vision.
You could run out of vram in 3D, or run out of some other important gpu resource.
The cpu only needs to process a little more than 60fps in 2D to see 60fps in 3D.Spend more on graphics than on the cpu. That's what I do.
Edit: see my 2D --> 3D fps test results here.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=211116&view=findpost&p=1299815
Thief 1/2/gold in 3D
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523535/3d-vision/thief-1-2-and-system-shock-2-perfect-3d-with-unofficial-patch-1-19
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Partol/album/509eb580a3e067153c000020/
[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[MSI H81M-P33 with Pentium G3258 @ 4.4GHz and Zalman CNPS5X}[Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Asus GTX 750 Ti @ 1350MHz] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]