I can confirm that I have the same performance issues as Andy.
I'm usually in the lucky group of gamers who never have such problems, so I fear the issue may be more general but people either did not try the fix yet or they are still in the early moments of the game.
Once you finish the starting sequences and are dropped in the open world, the performance drops considerably, depending what is rendered in the screen. For example if I only have a few blocks, some people and 5-7 cars , with some alleys in the screen, it's perfectly smooth. but as soon as I look towards the skyscrapers in the distance, or the moon, or the mothership, something happens and fps is very low.
I cannot say whether the performance loss is due to the wrapper overhead, or the shader computations themselves, or simply because there are too many shaders/shadows/effects to render and correct, when the draw distance is so high.
I can only confirm that is happens in both 3D and 2D if the wrapper is installed, and that the problem disappears in both 3D (broken) or 2D if the wrapper is uninstalled.
All options set to low or off, except the required lights on high. Cannot find a draw distance setting to test what happens if it's set to lower values.
Hope people contribute to help pinpoint the issue, and it would be awesome if it could be addressed in later versions of the fix. I just hope it's just this game, due to the vast open spaces and draw distance, haven't tried AC4 yet but it would be a shame if this performance issue was a general wrapper/DX11 issue.
I can confirm that I have the same performance issues as Andy.
I'm usually in the lucky group of gamers who never have such problems, so I fear the issue may be more general but people either did not try the fix yet or they are still in the early moments of the game.
Once you finish the starting sequences and are dropped in the open world, the performance drops considerably, depending what is rendered in the screen. For example if I only have a few blocks, some people and 5-7 cars , with some alleys in the screen, it's perfectly smooth. but as soon as I look towards the skyscrapers in the distance, or the moon, or the mothership, something happens and fps is very low.
I cannot say whether the performance loss is due to the wrapper overhead, or the shader computations themselves, or simply because there are too many shaders/shadows/effects to render and correct, when the draw distance is so high.
I can only confirm that is happens in both 3D and 2D if the wrapper is installed, and that the problem disappears in both 3D (broken) or 2D if the wrapper is uninstalled.
All options set to low or off, except the required lights on high. Cannot find a draw distance setting to test what happens if it's set to lower values.
Hope people contribute to help pinpoint the issue, and it would be awesome if it could be addressed in later versions of the fix. I just hope it's just this game, due to the vast open spaces and draw distance, haven't tried AC4 yet but it would be a shame if this performance issue was a general wrapper/DX11 issue.
Well, I can definitely state that it's not a general problem with the wrapper, because I can run the same game SR4 on a system with only GTX 580 SLI, and do not get any slowdowns in the outside world.
I can also strongly state that it's not a general performance problem with the wrapper, because I profiled the wrapper using the Visual Studio performance profiler (samples CPU every N ticks), and 3Dmigoto uses about 4% of the CPU.
If we can narrow this down, that would be great, but please, let's not guess. To debug problems, I need details. I need to know your system details, and anything that might seem relevant. Also, I have yet to get any log files from people reporting problems.
Well, I can definitely state that it's not a general problem with the wrapper, because I can run the same game SR4 on a system with only GTX 580 SLI, and do not get any slowdowns in the outside world.
I can also strongly state that it's not a general performance problem with the wrapper, because I profiled the wrapper using the Visual Studio performance profiler (samples CPU every N ticks), and 3Dmigoto uses about 4% of the CPU.
If we can narrow this down, that would be great, but please, let's not guess. To debug problems, I need details. I need to know your system details, and anything that might seem relevant. Also, I have yet to get any log files from people reporting problems.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I tried a couple more experiments, and checked my settings. Curiously, I'm running Lighting Detail at Low, not High as recommended. I'm pretty sure Mike had glitches when running at Low, but for whatever reason, I can run on Low with no problems.
Also worth noting, when I set that to High, I get the slowdowns you are seeing, dropping from 60 fps to 24 fps when looking into the distance.
Here's my lowest frame rate on Low, and even still both GPUs are pegged at 99%. CPU is running about 50%, which might be just two cores active.
[img]http://sg.bo3b.net/sr4/SaintsRowIV19_85.jps[/img]
[img]http://sg.bo3b.net/sr4/SaintsRowIV18_85.jps[/img]
I tried a couple more experiments, and checked my settings. Curiously, I'm running Lighting Detail at Low, not High as recommended. I'm pretty sure Mike had glitches when running at Low, but for whatever reason, I can run on Low with no problems.
Also worth noting, when I set that to High, I get the slowdowns you are seeing, dropping from 60 fps to 24 fps when looking into the distance.
Here's my lowest frame rate on Low, and even still both GPUs are pegged at 99%. CPU is running about 50%, which might be just two cores active.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Thanks for the input Bo3b, it's "comforting" to know you can replicate my issue.
I'll try the low lights setting and report back.
I'm on the same type of system at you, with Asus screen and i7 CPU (my freaking signature still does not work!)
Also ,please understand that I appreciate what you guys are doing immensely, do not take it as a reproach.
I'm so happy for your wrapper that I get emotionally invested and I was just hoping the slowness (which, I repeat, I did not see with any other game or 3D fix) was just a quirk of this game, not a general issue.
Thank you again for everything
Thanks for the input Bo3b, it's "comforting" to know you can replicate my issue.
I'll try the low lights setting and report back.
I'm on the same type of system at you, with Asus screen and i7 CPU (my freaking signature still does not work!)
Also ,please understand that I appreciate what you guys are doing immensely, do not take it as a reproach.
I'm so happy for your wrapper that I get emotionally invested and I was just hoping the slowness (which, I repeat, I did not see with any other game or 3D fix) was just a quirk of this game, not a general issue.
Thank you again for everything
No problem. I'm just overly sensitive when people suggest that 3Dmigoto might be causing slowdowns, because I've put weeks of effort into getting it to perform well.
This particular game is an odd one. The SLI requirement, and other problems with shaders and how it runs are very much specific to this game. Each game has its quirks, but the Saints Row games are really odd.
Please let me know if Low works for you- we don't have very much data on who needs to use High.
No problem. I'm just overly sensitive when people suggest that 3Dmigoto might be causing slowdowns, because I've put weeks of effort into getting it to perform well.
This particular game is an odd one. The SLI requirement, and other problems with shaders and how it runs are very much specific to this game. Each game has its quirks, but the Saints Row games are really odd.
Please let me know if Low works for you- we don't have very much data on who needs to use High.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
3Dmigoto works fine performance wise. Certainly does for AC4 and I played that all the way through. About 10 mins with nVidia's CM what ever it is called and then 3Dmigoto. My rig doesn't seem to like SR4; it does seem alot slower than it should be. But that could be for any reason.
That said, the lighting suggestion is awesome! My rig must be like Mike's as my game becomes borked, very much like it looks without the fix actually.
I will try another profile...
Edit
Removed profile like bo3b suggested earlier. Rocking!!! Looks awesome.
3Dmigoto works fine performance wise. Certainly does for AC4 and I played that all the way through. About 10 mins with nVidia's CM what ever it is called and then 3Dmigoto. My rig doesn't seem to like SR4; it does seem alot slower than it should be. But that could be for any reason.
That said, the lighting suggestion is awesome! My rig must be like Mike's as my game becomes borked, very much like it looks without the fix actually.
I will try another profile...
Edit
Removed profile like bo3b suggested earlier. Rocking!!! Looks awesome.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Hi Bo3b, I've just tried the low lights setting and unfortunately it does not work.
Performance is indeed improved to playable levels, but everything else is broken to the same degree as vanilla, as if the fix is not triggered.
If you don't have any issues with low lights settings and the fix works, then this is indeed very strange, especially since our systems are quite similar. I'm on 337.88 driver, SLI, with Saints Row 2 profile.
I'm going to hold off playing for the moment, in the hope that more people are sharing their experiences with this and maybe the cause is found. It's strange that this setting is so resource hungry also, anything else on High etc and with lights on low and the game is very fluid.
I wonder also whether later the game will happen during the day, maybe just the night lights are affecting performance so much.
Thanks again
Hi Bo3b, I've just tried the low lights setting and unfortunately it does not work.
Performance is indeed improved to playable levels, but everything else is broken to the same degree as vanilla, as if the fix is not triggered.
If you don't have any issues with low lights settings and the fix works, then this is indeed very strange, especially since our systems are quite similar. I'm on 337.88 driver, SLI, with Saints Row 2 profile.
I'm going to hold off playing for the moment, in the hope that more people are sharing their experiences with this and maybe the cause is found. It's strange that this setting is so resource hungry also, anything else on High etc and with lights on low and the game is very fluid.
I wonder also whether later the game will happen during the day, maybe just the night lights are affecting performance so much.
Thanks again
@Zappologist
Remove the profile altogether. Fixes it for me! :)
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Thanks Andy, that was on my list to try next, and indeed it solved it.
[b]For anyone suffering from the same issue: Remove the game exe from any profile, and set lights on low.[/b]
The other settings have no big performance impact for me. What a quirky game ...
Thank you and Bo3b for your ideas, the game is awesome and now it plays sooooooo smooth :-)
Maybe worth adding this find to the fix page.
Thanks Andy, that was on my list to try next, and indeed it solved it. For anyone suffering from the same issue: Remove the game exe from any profile, and set lights on low.
The other settings have no big performance impact for me. What a quirky game ...
Thank you and Bo3b for your ideas, the game is awesome and now it plays sooooooo smooth :-)
Maybe worth adding this find to the fix page.
OK, great! Good to know that we can switch to Low if needed. Thanks for trying some experiments to narrow this down.
Based on work that Mike found, switching to a null profile will probably break reflections though. But then, those can be disabled or lowered in the settings too. I think the 3D adds so much more to this game than the graphic candy that it's likely worth it. The reflections are fixed up by the SR2 profile, but their might be other profiles that work.
OK, great! Good to know that we can switch to Low if needed. Thanks for trying some experiments to narrow this down.
Based on work that Mike found, switching to a null profile will probably break reflections though. But then, those can be disabled or lowered in the settings too. I think the 3D adds so much more to this game than the graphic candy that it's likely worth it. The reflections are fixed up by the SR2 profile, but their might be other profiles that work.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
One more thing that I know about the reflections (like lights on wet pavement), if you go with the null profile to get performance, you can also set 'surface_square_createmode=1" in the d3dx.ini file, and that will fix the reflections as well.
So the hot combo for better performance can be:
Lights: Low
Profile: Null
d3dx.ini: surface_square_createmode=1
Not sure if there are other negative aspects of this, we didn't test other combos all that much, so please let us know if you see problems.
One more thing that I know about the reflections (like lights on wet pavement), if you go with the null profile to get performance, you can also set 'surface_square_createmode=1" in the d3dx.ini file, and that will fix the reflections as well.
So the hot combo for better performance can be:
Lights: Low
Profile: Null
d3dx.ini: surface_square_createmode=1
Not sure if there are other negative aspects of this, we didn't test other combos all that much, so please let us know if you see problems.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Thanks for this Bo3b, I've tried the .ini modifications and now I don't see bad reflections (or maybe the are disabled? not easy to tell. That surface_ line had option 2, but was commented out)
The game is a real blast with your fix guys, you are the best!
Will the whole game happen during night time? I enjoy the day/night cycle a lot in these open-world games.
Thanks for this Bo3b, I've tried the .ini modifications and now I don't see bad reflections (or maybe the are disabled? not easy to tell. That surface_ line had option 2, but was commented out)
The game is a real blast with your fix guys, you are the best!
Will the whole game happen during night time? I enjoy the day/night cycle a lot in these open-world games.
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]Are there significant visual differences between lighting high/low?[/quote]To be honest, I can't even tell any difference.
Whenever you switch the setting though, you need to restart, otherwise you get random flickering triangles. I see this from both High->Low and Low->High.
[quote="Zappologist"]Thanks for this Bo3b, I've tried the .ini modifications and now I don't see bad reflections (or maybe the are disabled? not easy to tell. That surface_ line had option 2, but was commented out)
The game is a real blast with your fix guys, you are the best!
Will the whole game happen during night time? I enjoy the day/night cycle a lot in these open-world games.[/quote]Great! Glad that is working out.
I don't know if it does day time, I've only played that level for testing. Mike's screenshots show that you go into the alien spaceship, and fly in outer space at least.
Pirateguybrush said:Are there significant visual differences between lighting high/low?
To be honest, I can't even tell any difference.
Whenever you switch the setting though, you need to restart, otherwise you get random flickering triangles. I see this from both High->Low and Low->High.
Zappologist said:Thanks for this Bo3b, I've tried the .ini modifications and now I don't see bad reflections (or maybe the are disabled? not easy to tell. That surface_ line had option 2, but was commented out)
The game is a real blast with your fix guys, you are the best!
Will the whole game happen during night time? I enjoy the day/night cycle a lot in these open-world games.
Great! Glad that is working out.
I don't know if it does day time, I've only played that level for testing. Mike's screenshots show that you go into the alien spaceship, and fly in outer space at least.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I'm usually in the lucky group of gamers who never have such problems, so I fear the issue may be more general but people either did not try the fix yet or they are still in the early moments of the game.
Once you finish the starting sequences and are dropped in the open world, the performance drops considerably, depending what is rendered in the screen. For example if I only have a few blocks, some people and 5-7 cars , with some alleys in the screen, it's perfectly smooth. but as soon as I look towards the skyscrapers in the distance, or the moon, or the mothership, something happens and fps is very low.
I cannot say whether the performance loss is due to the wrapper overhead, or the shader computations themselves, or simply because there are too many shaders/shadows/effects to render and correct, when the draw distance is so high.
I can only confirm that is happens in both 3D and 2D if the wrapper is installed, and that the problem disappears in both 3D (broken) or 2D if the wrapper is uninstalled.
All options set to low or off, except the required lights on high. Cannot find a draw distance setting to test what happens if it's set to lower values.
Hope people contribute to help pinpoint the issue, and it would be awesome if it could be addressed in later versions of the fix. I just hope it's just this game, due to the vast open spaces and draw distance, haven't tried AC4 yet but it would be a shame if this performance issue was a general wrapper/DX11 issue.
I can also strongly state that it's not a general performance problem with the wrapper, because I profiled the wrapper using the Visual Studio performance profiler (samples CPU every N ticks), and 3Dmigoto uses about 4% of the CPU.
If we can narrow this down, that would be great, but please, let's not guess. To debug problems, I need details. I need to know your system details, and anything that might seem relevant. Also, I have yet to get any log files from people reporting problems.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Also worth noting, when I set that to High, I get the slowdowns you are seeing, dropping from 60 fps to 24 fps when looking into the distance.
Here's my lowest frame rate on Low, and even still both GPUs are pegged at 99%. CPU is running about 50%, which might be just two cores active.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I'll try the low lights setting and report back.
I'm on the same type of system at you, with Asus screen and i7 CPU (my freaking signature still does not work!)
Also ,please understand that I appreciate what you guys are doing immensely, do not take it as a reproach.
I'm so happy for your wrapper that I get emotionally invested and I was just hoping the slowness (which, I repeat, I did not see with any other game or 3D fix) was just a quirk of this game, not a general issue.
Thank you again for everything
This particular game is an odd one. The SLI requirement, and other problems with shaders and how it runs are very much specific to this game. Each game has its quirks, but the Saints Row games are really odd.
Please let me know if Low works for you- we don't have very much data on who needs to use High.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
That said, the lighting suggestion is awesome! My rig must be like Mike's as my game becomes borked, very much like it looks without the fix actually.
I will try another profile...
Edit
Removed profile like bo3b suggested earlier. Rocking!!! Looks awesome.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
Performance is indeed improved to playable levels, but everything else is broken to the same degree as vanilla, as if the fix is not triggered.
If you don't have any issues with low lights settings and the fix works, then this is indeed very strange, especially since our systems are quite similar. I'm on 337.88 driver, SLI, with Saints Row 2 profile.
I'm going to hold off playing for the moment, in the hope that more people are sharing their experiences with this and maybe the cause is found. It's strange that this setting is so resource hungry also, anything else on High etc and with lights on low and the game is very fluid.
I wonder also whether later the game will happen during the day, maybe just the night lights are affecting performance so much.
Thanks again
Remove the profile altogether. Fixes it for me! :)
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
For anyone suffering from the same issue: Remove the game exe from any profile, and set lights on low.
The other settings have no big performance impact for me. What a quirky game ...
Thank you and Bo3b for your ideas, the game is awesome and now it plays sooooooo smooth :-)
Maybe worth adding this find to the fix page.
Based on work that Mike found, switching to a null profile will probably break reflections though. But then, those can be disabled or lowered in the settings too. I think the 3D adds so much more to this game than the graphic candy that it's likely worth it. The reflections are fixed up by the SR2 profile, but their might be other profiles that work.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
So the hot combo for better performance can be:
Lights: Low
Profile: Null
d3dx.ini: surface_square_createmode=1
Not sure if there are other negative aspects of this, we didn't test other combos all that much, so please let us know if you see problems.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
The game is a real blast with your fix guys, you are the best!
Will the whole game happen during night time? I enjoy the day/night cycle a lot in these open-world games.
Whenever you switch the setting though, you need to restart, otherwise you get random flickering triangles. I see this from both High->Low and Low->High.
Great! Glad that is working out.
I don't know if it does day time, I've only played that level for testing. Mike's screenshots show that you go into the alien spaceship, and fly in outer space at least.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers