Official NVIDIA 3D Vision 260.63/CD 1.36 kit Feedback Thread Including 3D Vision and 3D Vision Surro
  8 / 15    
I've got a GTX 460 card and an ASUS VG236H connected via Dual-Link DVI (and a secondary LG 24 " monitor connected via HDMI). When I installed 260.63, my system (Win 7 64-bit) didn't properly detect my monitors. The LG was listed as a Generic (which was OK), but it detected my ASUS as an "Ancor" (???) model, and neither the 3D Vision Player nor PowerDVD 10 Mark II would recognize that I had a valid 3D display. Any ideas as to why this might happen???? (fyi, rolling back to CD 1.34 put everything back to normal ....)

Thanks!
I've got a GTX 460 card and an ASUS VG236H connected via Dual-Link DVI (and a secondary LG 24 " monitor connected via HDMI). When I installed 260.63, my system (Win 7 64-bit) didn't properly detect my monitors. The LG was listed as a Generic (which was OK), but it detected my ASUS as an "Ancor" (???) model, and neither the 3D Vision Player nor PowerDVD 10 Mark II would recognize that I had a valid 3D display. Any ideas as to why this might happen???? (fyi, rolling back to CD 1.34 put everything back to normal ....)



Thanks!

Posted 09/17/2010 02:56 PM   
[quote name='ManuelG' post='1117570' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:00 AM']It has an Excellent rating.[/quote]

Well .... after trying the demo I would agree with the profile rating: GOOD. The strange thing is that when I try the preparing session (the training one) the 3D is amazing and you can even use the depth, but during a match you have to use the minimum depth (like the older versions of FIFA) otherwise you would get a lot of ghosting!
[quote name='ManuelG' post='1117570' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:00 AM']It has an Excellent rating.



Well .... after trying the demo I would agree with the profile rating: GOOD. The strange thing is that when I try the preparing session (the training one) the 3D is amazing and you can even use the depth, but during a match you have to use the minimum depth (like the older versions of FIFA) otherwise you would get a lot of ghosting!

Posted 09/17/2010 08:37 PM   
[quote name='ManuelG' post='1117570' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:00 AM']It has an Excellent rating.[/quote]

Well .... after trying the demo I would agree with the profile rating: GOOD. The strange thing is that when I try the preparing session (the training one) the 3D is amazing and you can even use the depth, but during a match you have to use the minimum depth (like the older versions of FIFA) otherwise you would get a lot of ghosting!
[quote name='ManuelG' post='1117570' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:00 AM']It has an Excellent rating.



Well .... after trying the demo I would agree with the profile rating: GOOD. The strange thing is that when I try the preparing session (the training one) the 3D is amazing and you can even use the depth, but during a match you have to use the minimum depth (like the older versions of FIFA) otherwise you would get a lot of ghosting!

Posted 09/17/2010 08:37 PM   
Hi!
Am I the only one with a Mitusbishi 60737 having an issue with resolution....everything looks wrong like the resolutions are not applying correctly.
I tried resizing the desktop and you can tell the whole image is tilted a lot to the left side, every weird.
Hi!

Am I the only one with a Mitusbishi 60737 having an issue with resolution....everything looks wrong like the resolutions are not applying correctly.

I tried resizing the desktop and you can tell the whole image is tilted a lot to the left side, every weird.

*CPU: i7 920 DO @ 4.1Ghz 1.35v HT On*CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme*Mobo: Evga X58 SLI / RAM: 12GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer DDR3 1600 7-7-7-21 1.5v*Video Cards:Tri Sli Evga GTX 660 ti x 2 & MSI GTX 660 ti *Speakers:CBM-170 SE*PSU: Corsair HX1000W*Display: Mitusbishi 60" DLP (3D Vision ) Qnix QX2710 27" 1440P*Case: CoolerMaster HAF X (932 side) *Windows 7 64Bit on Samsung 840 256GB*Others: Roccat Kone XTD | Roccat Alumic | Logitech G15 | *Mobile: Galaxy Note 2

Posted 09/18/2010 07:38 AM   
Hi!
Am I the only one with a Mitusbishi 60737 having an issue with resolution....everything looks wrong like the resolutions are not applying correctly.
I tried resizing the desktop and you can tell the whole image is tilted a lot to the left side, every weird.
Hi!

Am I the only one with a Mitusbishi 60737 having an issue with resolution....everything looks wrong like the resolutions are not applying correctly.

I tried resizing the desktop and you can tell the whole image is tilted a lot to the left side, every weird.

*CPU: i7 920 DO @ 4.1Ghz 1.35v HT On*CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme*Mobo: Evga X58 SLI / RAM: 12GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer DDR3 1600 7-7-7-21 1.5v*Video Cards:Tri Sli Evga GTX 660 ti x 2 & MSI GTX 660 ti *Speakers:CBM-170 SE*PSU: Corsair HX1000W*Display: Mitusbishi 60" DLP (3D Vision ) Qnix QX2710 27" 1440P*Case: CoolerMaster HAF X (932 side) *Windows 7 64Bit on Samsung 840 256GB*Others: Roccat Kone XTD | Roccat Alumic | Logitech G15 | *Mobile: Galaxy Note 2

Posted 09/18/2010 07:38 AM   
[quote name='jade0732' post='1118643' date='Sep 16 2010, 10:29 PM']Hallo Nvidia enyone there? /alien.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':alien:' />[/quote]

I don't have the list of supported 3DTV Play displays but I will find out if your model is supported and update this thread.
[quote name='jade0732' post='1118643' date='Sep 16 2010, 10:29 PM']Hallo Nvidia enyone there? /alien.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':alien:' />



I don't have the list of supported 3DTV Play displays but I will find out if your model is supported and update this thread.

We can't fix your bug if we can't reproduce it. Please provide as much details as possible including specs, steps to reproduce, graphics settings used, etc..

For GeForce driver issues, please leave feedback in driver feedback form: Driver Feedback

For GeForce Now PC issues, please fill out feedback form below:
GFN PC Feedback

For SHIELD Android TV issues/requests, please leave feedback in the SHIELD feedback form: SHIELD Feedback

I am also available on Twitter:
www.twitter.com/manuelguzman

Posted 09/20/2010 12:54 PM   
[quote name='jade0732' post='1118643' date='Sep 16 2010, 10:29 PM']Hallo Nvidia enyone there? /alien.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':alien:' />[/quote]

I don't have the list of supported 3DTV Play displays but I will find out if your model is supported and update this thread.
[quote name='jade0732' post='1118643' date='Sep 16 2010, 10:29 PM']Hallo Nvidia enyone there? /alien.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':alien:' />



I don't have the list of supported 3DTV Play displays but I will find out if your model is supported and update this thread.

We can't fix your bug if we can't reproduce it. Please provide as much details as possible including specs, steps to reproduce, graphics settings used, etc..

For GeForce driver issues, please leave feedback in driver feedback form: Driver Feedback

For GeForce Now PC issues, please fill out feedback form below:
GFN PC Feedback

For SHIELD Android TV issues/requests, please leave feedback in the SHIELD feedback form: SHIELD Feedback

I am also available on Twitter:
www.twitter.com/manuelguzman

Posted 09/20/2010 12:54 PM   
[quote name='bct103' post='1118810' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:56 AM']I've got a GTX 460 card and an ASUS VG236H connected via Dual-Link DVI (and a secondary LG 24 " monitor connected via HDMI). When I installed 260.63, my system (Win 7 64-bit) didn't properly detect my monitors. The LG was listed as a Generic (which was OK), but it detected my ASUS as an "Ancor" (???) model, and neither the 3D Vision Player nor PowerDVD 10 Mark II would recognize that I had a valid 3D display. Any ideas as to why this might happen???? (fyi, rolling back to CD 1.34 put everything back to normal ....)

Thanks![/quote]


Didn't know if anyone else had seen anything similar yet????

FYI, more info on my specs in case any one cares:

PNY GTX 460
Quad Core at 2.66 gHz
8 GB RAM
Windows 7 64-bit
ASUS VG236H 120Hz LCD Monitor (3D Vision)
LG 24" monitor (can't recall the model - it's now discontinued)

I haven't retried the 260.63 drivers, but now that there's some response from NVidia, I was hoping somebody might be able to help out!

Thanks!
[quote name='bct103' post='1118810' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:56 AM']I've got a GTX 460 card and an ASUS VG236H connected via Dual-Link DVI (and a secondary LG 24 " monitor connected via HDMI). When I installed 260.63, my system (Win 7 64-bit) didn't properly detect my monitors. The LG was listed as a Generic (which was OK), but it detected my ASUS as an "Ancor" (???) model, and neither the 3D Vision Player nor PowerDVD 10 Mark II would recognize that I had a valid 3D display. Any ideas as to why this might happen???? (fyi, rolling back to CD 1.34 put everything back to normal ....)



Thanks!





Didn't know if anyone else had seen anything similar yet????



FYI, more info on my specs in case any one cares:



PNY GTX 460

Quad Core at 2.66 gHz

8 GB RAM

Windows 7 64-bit

ASUS VG236H 120Hz LCD Monitor (3D Vision)

LG 24" monitor (can't recall the model - it's now discontinued)



I haven't retried the 260.63 drivers, but now that there's some response from NVidia, I was hoping somebody might be able to help out!



Thanks!

Posted 09/20/2010 05:50 PM   
[quote name='bct103' post='1118810' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:56 AM']I've got a GTX 460 card and an ASUS VG236H connected via Dual-Link DVI (and a secondary LG 24 " monitor connected via HDMI). When I installed 260.63, my system (Win 7 64-bit) didn't properly detect my monitors. The LG was listed as a Generic (which was OK), but it detected my ASUS as an "Ancor" (???) model, and neither the 3D Vision Player nor PowerDVD 10 Mark II would recognize that I had a valid 3D display. Any ideas as to why this might happen???? (fyi, rolling back to CD 1.34 put everything back to normal ....)

Thanks![/quote]


Didn't know if anyone else had seen anything similar yet????

FYI, more info on my specs in case any one cares:

PNY GTX 460
Quad Core at 2.66 gHz
8 GB RAM
Windows 7 64-bit
ASUS VG236H 120Hz LCD Monitor (3D Vision)
LG 24" monitor (can't recall the model - it's now discontinued)

I haven't retried the 260.63 drivers, but now that there's some response from NVidia, I was hoping somebody might be able to help out!

Thanks!
[quote name='bct103' post='1118810' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:56 AM']I've got a GTX 460 card and an ASUS VG236H connected via Dual-Link DVI (and a secondary LG 24 " monitor connected via HDMI). When I installed 260.63, my system (Win 7 64-bit) didn't properly detect my monitors. The LG was listed as a Generic (which was OK), but it detected my ASUS as an "Ancor" (???) model, and neither the 3D Vision Player nor PowerDVD 10 Mark II would recognize that I had a valid 3D display. Any ideas as to why this might happen???? (fyi, rolling back to CD 1.34 put everything back to normal ....)



Thanks!





Didn't know if anyone else had seen anything similar yet????



FYI, more info on my specs in case any one cares:



PNY GTX 460

Quad Core at 2.66 gHz

8 GB RAM

Windows 7 64-bit

ASUS VG236H 120Hz LCD Monitor (3D Vision)

LG 24" monitor (can't recall the model - it's now discontinued)



I haven't retried the 260.63 drivers, but now that there's some response from NVidia, I was hoping somebody might be able to help out!



Thanks!

Posted 09/20/2010 05:50 PM   
[quote name='Muppet' post='1117556' date='Sep 15 2010, 07:30 AM']Anyone else have an issue where the control panel won't open. If i right click on the desktop, it does nothing after selecting the control panel. I tried installing the drivers over the top again and still nothing.[/quote]

A second pc restart cured it for me

I posted this in the 3DTV Play forum and thought it was relevant here:

QUOTE (naz1911 @ Sep 20 2010, 01:38 AM)
I got some 3d clips to work with the latest drivers (260.63) on my gtx460 sli and the Panasonic vt 20 using Powerdvd 10 with the latest patch but blu ray 3d films won't work unless I change the res in the nvidia control panel to one of the 2 3d resolutions. The problem I now have is that the tv seems to zoom in and the outside edges of any 3d content is cropped at 720p and 1080p. Any ideas for a fix for the cropping or blu ray 3d films not triggering the tv into 3d automatically?
Ps, 3dtv play not working for me as well


ALL ISSUES RESOLVED

Overscan issue:
Setting in the Panasonic TX-P50VT20 TV were the cause. In the TV menu under setup > Other settings, overscan was on for some reason. (Why cant this setting be under the Picture???)
For PowerDVD to auto switch to 3D once it detects 3D contents (3D Blu Ray as well as 3D SBS media clips), a Win 7 re-install fixed it. On further investigation, enabling SLI in the Nvidia control panel breaks the 3D switching as well.

Word of warning/advice:
Do not use the Win 7 screen resolution tab to change resolutions for anything at all. This will break the Nvidia resolution changing panel and more importantly stop you from viewing 3D Blu Rays and clips.

The bitstreaming does not work for me. Mght have to put the Auzentech HTHD card back in and see if all plays well together....
[quote name='Muppet' post='1117556' date='Sep 15 2010, 07:30 AM']Anyone else have an issue where the control panel won't open. If i right click on the desktop, it does nothing after selecting the control panel. I tried installing the drivers over the top again and still nothing.



A second pc restart cured it for me



I posted this in the 3DTV Play forum and thought it was relevant here:



QUOTE (naz1911 @ Sep 20 2010, 01:38 AM)

I got some 3d clips to work with the latest drivers (260.63) on my gtx460 sli and the Panasonic vt 20 using Powerdvd 10 with the latest patch but blu ray 3d films won't work unless I change the res in the nvidia control panel to one of the 2 3d resolutions. The problem I now have is that the tv seems to zoom in and the outside edges of any 3d content is cropped at 720p and 1080p. Any ideas for a fix for the cropping or blu ray 3d films not triggering the tv into 3d automatically?

Ps, 3dtv play not working for me as well





ALL ISSUES RESOLVED



Overscan issue:

Setting in the Panasonic TX-P50VT20 TV were the cause. In the TV menu under setup > Other settings, overscan was on for some reason. (Why cant this setting be under the Picture???)

For PowerDVD to auto switch to 3D once it detects 3D contents (3D Blu Ray as well as 3D SBS media clips), a Win 7 re-install fixed it. On further investigation, enabling SLI in the Nvidia control panel breaks the 3D switching as well.



Word of warning/advice:

Do not use the Win 7 screen resolution tab to change resolutions for anything at all. This will break the Nvidia resolution changing panel and more importantly stop you from viewing 3D Blu Rays and clips.



The bitstreaming does not work for me. Mght have to put the Auzentech HTHD card back in and see if all plays well together....

Posted 09/20/2010 07:00 PM   
[quote name='Muppet' post='1117556' date='Sep 15 2010, 07:30 AM']Anyone else have an issue where the control panel won't open. If i right click on the desktop, it does nothing after selecting the control panel. I tried installing the drivers over the top again and still nothing.[/quote]

A second pc restart cured it for me

I posted this in the 3DTV Play forum and thought it was relevant here:

QUOTE (naz1911 @ Sep 20 2010, 01:38 AM)
I got some 3d clips to work with the latest drivers (260.63) on my gtx460 sli and the Panasonic vt 20 using Powerdvd 10 with the latest patch but blu ray 3d films won't work unless I change the res in the nvidia control panel to one of the 2 3d resolutions. The problem I now have is that the tv seems to zoom in and the outside edges of any 3d content is cropped at 720p and 1080p. Any ideas for a fix for the cropping or blu ray 3d films not triggering the tv into 3d automatically?
Ps, 3dtv play not working for me as well


ALL ISSUES RESOLVED

Overscan issue:
Setting in the Panasonic TX-P50VT20 TV were the cause. In the TV menu under setup > Other settings, overscan was on for some reason. (Why cant this setting be under the Picture???)
For PowerDVD to auto switch to 3D once it detects 3D contents (3D Blu Ray as well as 3D SBS media clips), a Win 7 re-install fixed it. On further investigation, enabling SLI in the Nvidia control panel breaks the 3D switching as well.

Word of warning/advice:
Do not use the Win 7 screen resolution tab to change resolutions for anything at all. This will break the Nvidia resolution changing panel and more importantly stop you from viewing 3D Blu Rays and clips.

The bitstreaming does not work for me. Mght have to put the Auzentech HTHD card back in and see if all plays well together....
[quote name='Muppet' post='1117556' date='Sep 15 2010, 07:30 AM']Anyone else have an issue where the control panel won't open. If i right click on the desktop, it does nothing after selecting the control panel. I tried installing the drivers over the top again and still nothing.



A second pc restart cured it for me



I posted this in the 3DTV Play forum and thought it was relevant here:



QUOTE (naz1911 @ Sep 20 2010, 01:38 AM)

I got some 3d clips to work with the latest drivers (260.63) on my gtx460 sli and the Panasonic vt 20 using Powerdvd 10 with the latest patch but blu ray 3d films won't work unless I change the res in the nvidia control panel to one of the 2 3d resolutions. The problem I now have is that the tv seems to zoom in and the outside edges of any 3d content is cropped at 720p and 1080p. Any ideas for a fix for the cropping or blu ray 3d films not triggering the tv into 3d automatically?

Ps, 3dtv play not working for me as well





ALL ISSUES RESOLVED



Overscan issue:

Setting in the Panasonic TX-P50VT20 TV were the cause. In the TV menu under setup > Other settings, overscan was on for some reason. (Why cant this setting be under the Picture???)

For PowerDVD to auto switch to 3D once it detects 3D contents (3D Blu Ray as well as 3D SBS media clips), a Win 7 re-install fixed it. On further investigation, enabling SLI in the Nvidia control panel breaks the 3D switching as well.



Word of warning/advice:

Do not use the Win 7 screen resolution tab to change resolutions for anything at all. This will break the Nvidia resolution changing panel and more importantly stop you from viewing 3D Blu Rays and clips.



The bitstreaming does not work for me. Mght have to put the Auzentech HTHD card back in and see if all plays well together....

Posted 09/20/2010 07:00 PM   
OK I think i understood the problem...

Panasonic is a patner of NVIDIA... So when you plug directly the NVIDIA card to the Panasonic, 3DTV PLAY works... It is legal because it's the first beta version... But i will become illegal very soon...

When you plug it to a Samsung or a Sony 3DTV... 3DTV PLAY is NOT working any more...

I have a Samsung 3DTV plasma ... To make it works, i have to pass by my HDMI 1.4 receiver... So the ID of the Samsung 3DTV is not blocked any more...

Beware NVIDIA... This is not good for your image...

I've paid my 480 GTX, I've paid my 3DVISION KIT...

So PLEASE do not block the ID of my Samsung 3DTV...

+++
basthi
OK I think i understood the problem...



Panasonic is a patner of NVIDIA... So when you plug directly the NVIDIA card to the Panasonic, 3DTV PLAY works... It is legal because it's the first beta version... But i will become illegal very soon...



When you plug it to a Samsung or a Sony 3DTV... 3DTV PLAY is NOT working any more...



I have a Samsung 3DTV plasma ... To make it works, i have to pass by my HDMI 1.4 receiver... So the ID of the Samsung 3DTV is not blocked any more...



Beware NVIDIA... This is not good for your image...



I've paid my 480 GTX, I've paid my 3DVISION KIT...



So PLEASE do not block the ID of my Samsung 3DTV...



+++

basthi

Posted 09/21/2010 02:10 PM   
OK I think i understood the problem...

Panasonic is a patner of NVIDIA... So when you plug directly the NVIDIA card to the Panasonic, 3DTV PLAY works... It is legal because it's the first beta version... But i will become illegal very soon...

When you plug it to a Samsung or a Sony 3DTV... 3DTV PLAY is NOT working any more...

I have a Samsung 3DTV plasma ... To make it works, i have to pass by my HDMI 1.4 receiver... So the ID of the Samsung 3DTV is not blocked any more...

Beware NVIDIA... This is not good for your image...

I've paid my 480 GTX, I've paid my 3DVISION KIT...

So PLEASE do not block the ID of my Samsung 3DTV...

+++
basthi
OK I think i understood the problem...



Panasonic is a patner of NVIDIA... So when you plug directly the NVIDIA card to the Panasonic, 3DTV PLAY works... It is legal because it's the first beta version... But i will become illegal very soon...



When you plug it to a Samsung or a Sony 3DTV... 3DTV PLAY is NOT working any more...



I have a Samsung 3DTV plasma ... To make it works, i have to pass by my HDMI 1.4 receiver... So the ID of the Samsung 3DTV is not blocked any more...



Beware NVIDIA... This is not good for your image...



I've paid my 480 GTX, I've paid my 3DVISION KIT...



So PLEASE do not block the ID of my Samsung 3DTV...



+++

basthi

Posted 09/21/2010 02:10 PM   
Manuel, while configuring surround screens, assigning screen to a correct position is very buggy.

Took me ca. 20 retries to get correct screens to the positions as the wizard either doesn't apply changes to the order of screens or the apply button is not available when I want to change it or it changes only 2 screen (swaps).

The way it should work is in the wizard it should assign correct screen regardless how many swaps it takes or after the wizard it should be possible to change wrongly assigned monitors
Manuel, while configuring surround screens, assigning screen to a correct position is very buggy.



Took me ca. 20 retries to get correct screens to the positions as the wizard either doesn't apply changes to the order of screens or the apply button is not available when I want to change it or it changes only 2 screen (swaps).



The way it should work is in the wizard it should assign correct screen regardless how many swaps it takes or after the wizard it should be possible to change wrongly assigned monitors

i7 980X @4.2 1.31v // Asus Rampage III Black Edition // Corsair Dom GT 3x4GB 2000 CL9 // 2x Palit GTX 580 3GB // Crucial RealSSD C300 256GB // 2x WD 2TB EARS // Samsung 2.5" 500GB // LG Blu-Ray DVD

Lian Li PC-A77B // Enermax Revolution 85+ 1250W // MS X-6 // SS Ikari // Logitech G27 + X230 // Win 7 x64 Pro // 3x Dell AW2310 120Hz 3D + Nvidia 3D Vision Surround

3x DDC 3.25 + 3x HTS-PMP400 // EK DDC Dual V2 + Single V2 Tops - Single loop // EK Multi-Option // Bitspower fittings //EK Supreme HF // 2x EK GTX 5X0 Acetal + Nickel

Primochill LRT Black 1/2 ID 3/4 OD // 2x XSPC RX360 + RX240 // Aquaero 5 Pro + flow & temp sensors // 21x Akasa Apache Black



Rig worklog

Posted 09/21/2010 04:45 PM   
Manuel, while configuring surround screens, assigning screen to a correct position is very buggy.

Took me ca. 20 retries to get correct screens to the positions as the wizard either doesn't apply changes to the order of screens or the apply button is not available when I want to change it or it changes only 2 screen (swaps).

The way it should work is in the wizard it should assign correct screen regardless how many swaps it takes or after the wizard it should be possible to change wrongly assigned monitors
Manuel, while configuring surround screens, assigning screen to a correct position is very buggy.



Took me ca. 20 retries to get correct screens to the positions as the wizard either doesn't apply changes to the order of screens or the apply button is not available when I want to change it or it changes only 2 screen (swaps).



The way it should work is in the wizard it should assign correct screen regardless how many swaps it takes or after the wizard it should be possible to change wrongly assigned monitors

i7 980X @4.2 1.31v // Asus Rampage III Black Edition // Corsair Dom GT 3x4GB 2000 CL9 // 2x Palit GTX 580 3GB // Crucial RealSSD C300 256GB // 2x WD 2TB EARS // Samsung 2.5" 500GB // LG Blu-Ray DVD

Lian Li PC-A77B // Enermax Revolution 85+ 1250W // MS X-6 // SS Ikari // Logitech G27 + X230 // Win 7 x64 Pro // 3x Dell AW2310 120Hz 3D + Nvidia 3D Vision Surround

3x DDC 3.25 + 3x HTS-PMP400 // EK DDC Dual V2 + Single V2 Tops - Single loop // EK Multi-Option // Bitspower fittings //EK Supreme HF // 2x EK GTX 5X0 Acetal + Nickel

Primochill LRT Black 1/2 ID 3/4 OD // 2x XSPC RX360 + RX240 // Aquaero 5 Pro + flow & temp sensors // 21x Akasa Apache Black



Rig worklog

Posted 09/21/2010 04:45 PM   
  8 / 15    
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