Convergence is a huge factor
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I just would like to let nvidia team know how important convergence is to 3d vision and that it needs to be much more of an obvious adjustment for users.

When I first bought my 3d vision 2 glasses and tried them out I was not impressed. Although the games were in 3d it didn't really look that 3d even after adjusting depth to almost max. I was convinced that this whole thing was a gimmick. I was about to sell it until I found out about the convergence setting. I had always adjusted the depth in games thinking this would give me more of a 3d look but it didn't. As soon as I increased the convergence I was blown away. The difference is night and day.

My point is maybe convergence settings are mentioned in the manual but I never read it and how many other people haven't either. Nvidia settings menu has the hotkey settings for convergence but they are not seen until you click the advanced settings. And with the depth setting being on the emitter most new users figure this is the setting for giving you more 3d.

Increasing convergence has made 3d vision, what I was once disappointed in, to an awesome 3d experience that I can't get enough of.

And another huge factor is letting game developers understand the importance of convergence settings and not allow them to lock it. I know some games have it locked especially first person shooteres because of the HUD but game developers can easily account for this when making games so that users can increase convergence to their liking.
I just would like to let nvidia team know how important convergence is to 3d vision and that it needs to be much more of an obvious adjustment for users.



When I first bought my 3d vision 2 glasses and tried them out I was not impressed. Although the games were in 3d it didn't really look that 3d even after adjusting depth to almost max. I was convinced that this whole thing was a gimmick. I was about to sell it until I found out about the convergence setting. I had always adjusted the depth in games thinking this would give me more of a 3d look but it didn't. As soon as I increased the convergence I was blown away. The difference is night and day.



My point is maybe convergence settings are mentioned in the manual but I never read it and how many other people haven't either. Nvidia settings menu has the hotkey settings for convergence but they are not seen until you click the advanced settings. And with the depth setting being on the emitter most new users figure this is the setting for giving you more 3d.



Increasing convergence has made 3d vision, what I was once disappointed in, to an awesome 3d experience that I can't get enough of.



And another huge factor is letting game developers understand the importance of convergence settings and not allow them to lock it. I know some games have it locked especially first person shooteres because of the HUD but game developers can easily account for this when making games so that users can increase convergence to their liking.

#1
Posted 02/19/2012 05:49 PM   
Hi steveggz,

Thanks for this honest and thoughtful feedback, I've said nearly the same thing verbatim when I first learned of this adjustment with 3D Vision so I agree its really important that the benefit of Convergence adjustment is re-emphasized continuously to Nvidia and their dev partners.

Generally Nvidia does do a good job in their profiles with setting comfortable convergence levels but they tend to ignore the fact different users will want different convergence levels. Their dev partners also sometimes ask Nvidia to lock convergence for "artistic reasons" which is an unacceptable reason imo.

In the meantime, we can all do our part to help inform others of the importance of this single setting in order to improve the 3D Vision experience for end-users.
Hi steveggz,



Thanks for this honest and thoughtful feedback, I've said nearly the same thing verbatim when I first learned of this adjustment with 3D Vision so I agree its really important that the benefit of Convergence adjustment is re-emphasized continuously to Nvidia and their dev partners.



Generally Nvidia does do a good job in their profiles with setting comfortable convergence levels but they tend to ignore the fact different users will want different convergence levels. Their dev partners also sometimes ask Nvidia to lock convergence for "artistic reasons" which is an unacceptable reason imo.



In the meantime, we can all do our part to help inform others of the importance of this single setting in order to improve the 3D Vision experience for end-users.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
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#2
Posted 02/19/2012 05:56 PM   
Where is the Convergence setting? I tried looking through the nvidia control panel and the inspector and cannot find this setting. Help would be much appreciated.
Where is the Convergence setting? I tried looking through the nvidia control panel and the inspector and cannot find this setting. Help would be much appreciated.

#3
Posted 02/19/2012 07:04 PM   
I found out from the nvidia help & support faq page. Link is here http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2943/kw/convergence/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyOTY3ODMzNy9zaWQvWUVpMTk2Ums%3D

#4
Posted 02/19/2012 07:13 PM   
[quote name='SandmanFTW' date='19 February 2012 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1329678285' post='1371446']
Where is the Convergence setting? I tried looking through the nvidia control panel and the inspector and cannot find this setting. Help would be much appreciated.
[/quote]
Here you go, I've also asked Nvidia in the past to make the setting more obvious, and not locked by default. Obviously to no avail.

[attachment=24385:Convergence.JPG]

Generally to adjust convergence, you set your preferred depth level. Then hold Ctrl-F6 (Can take 5-10 seconds sometimes before you start seeing any image shift). You will start to see objects in the near field (3rd person games it will be the main actor, like Batman) start to pop-out, then break/split into 2 discrete images. The goal is to be able to focus on objects at actor depth or slightly ahead comfortably without anything at that depth and closer seeming too far out of focus (double image). This setting is going to be different for everyone but with enough experience, you will find what settings you prefer and gravitate towards them in every game. LMK if you need more help.
[quote name='SandmanFTW' date='19 February 2012 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1329678285' post='1371446']

Where is the Convergence setting? I tried looking through the nvidia control panel and the inspector and cannot find this setting. Help would be much appreciated.



Here you go, I've also asked Nvidia in the past to make the setting more obvious, and not locked by default. Obviously to no avail.



[attachment=24385:Convergence.JPG]



Generally to adjust convergence, you set your preferred depth level. Then hold Ctrl-F6 (Can take 5-10 seconds sometimes before you start seeing any image shift). You will start to see objects in the near field (3rd person games it will be the main actor, like Batman) start to pop-out, then break/split into 2 discrete images. The goal is to be able to focus on objects at actor depth or slightly ahead comfortably without anything at that depth and closer seeming too far out of focus (double image). This setting is going to be different for everyone but with enough experience, you will find what settings you prefer and gravitate towards them in every game. LMK if you need more help.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#5
Posted 02/19/2012 07:17 PM   
Sandman - go to the keyboard shortcuts. There you can turn on advanced settings and it will show you what keys to press. You can also change convergence much like you change depth - by using the dial on the emitter. If you hold down the green light button and turn the dial it will change convergence instead of depth. (I'm not sure if the advanced settings have to be enabled to get the dial trick to work or not.) Convergence is a bit weird in that you sometimes have to change it quite a bit before you'll notice any change at all - then suddenly it will change a lot.

To the topic - yeah, the whole control panel needs to be chucked and redesigned, IMHO. Having to go to the keyboard settings to turn on a feature, for instance, is really not sane at all. Making it so difficult to change convergence is not a good thing. I understand that they wan to try and keep it as simple and straightforward as possible but they've gone beyond what is possible and into the realm of crippling the user.

Then there's the whole screenshot thing. Why isn't this on the control panel? That's a really neat feature and NVIDIA has chosen to hide it completely! I'm sure most people don't even know it's there and even fewer know that you can switch between JPS and PNS formats.

But we've been screaming about this for, what? Two years now?

P.S. I've still got NO clue why a developer would lock down convergence. If you go to NVIDIA's developer resources and read their recommendations they actually say that the developer shouldn't do that.

P.P.S. Dang it, Sandman found the fix while Chiz and I were monologging! /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
Sandman - go to the keyboard shortcuts. There you can turn on advanced settings and it will show you what keys to press. You can also change convergence much like you change depth - by using the dial on the emitter. If you hold down the green light button and turn the dial it will change convergence instead of depth. (I'm not sure if the advanced settings have to be enabled to get the dial trick to work or not.) Convergence is a bit weird in that you sometimes have to change it quite a bit before you'll notice any change at all - then suddenly it will change a lot.



To the topic - yeah, the whole control panel needs to be chucked and redesigned, IMHO. Having to go to the keyboard settings to turn on a feature, for instance, is really not sane at all. Making it so difficult to change convergence is not a good thing. I understand that they wan to try and keep it as simple and straightforward as possible but they've gone beyond what is possible and into the realm of crippling the user.



Then there's the whole screenshot thing. Why isn't this on the control panel? That's a really neat feature and NVIDIA has chosen to hide it completely! I'm sure most people don't even know it's there and even fewer know that you can switch between JPS and PNS formats.



But we've been screaming about this for, what? Two years now?



P.S. I've still got NO clue why a developer would lock down convergence. If you go to NVIDIA's developer resources and read their recommendations they actually say that the developer shouldn't do that.



P.P.S. Dang it, Sandman found the fix while Chiz and I were monologging! /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#6
Posted 02/19/2012 07:34 PM   
I think its cause nvidia doesnt trust the average user with convergence.*shrug*

Then again your average 3d vision user never comes to forum so probably doesnt even know of it.
I think its cause nvidia doesnt trust the average user with convergence.*shrug*



Then again your average 3d vision user never comes to forum so probably doesnt even know of it.

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#7
Posted 02/19/2012 07:56 PM   
Very important setting. I just started a game where the convergence was totally wrong and made everything look tiny. I had to back out of the game and enable the hotkey, no big deal, but if the game had locked it out the game would not have been playable. Should not be disabled by default and needs a visual/numerical slider for new users.
Very important setting. I just started a game where the convergence was totally wrong and made everything look tiny. I had to back out of the game and enable the hotkey, no big deal, but if the game had locked it out the game would not have been playable. Should not be disabled by default and needs a visual/numerical slider for new users.

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#8
Posted 02/19/2012 10:16 PM   
Thanks for you help guys. I am also wondering is there a way to save convergence and depth settings as a profile so I don't have to change the settings each time with a different game? BTW to Libertine I thought the convergence hot key was not working until I realized you got to hold it a few seconds to notice the change ctrl+F6 for a few seconds and to the OP wow what a huge difference convergence makes to the experience. I thought the default settings were good but this changes the game to a next level
Thanks for you help guys. I am also wondering is there a way to save convergence and depth settings as a profile so I don't have to change the settings each time with a different game? BTW to Libertine I thought the convergence hot key was not working until I realized you got to hold it a few seconds to notice the change ctrl+F6 for a few seconds and to the OP wow what a huge difference convergence makes to the experience. I thought the default settings were good but this changes the game to a next level

#9
Posted 02/19/2012 11:51 PM   
Cheers OP!
I didn't know this even existed.

[quote name='chiz' date='19 February 2012 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1329679030' post='1371452']
Generally to adjust convergence, you set your preferred depth level. Then hold Ctrl-F6 (Can take 5-10 seconds sometimes before you start seeing any image shift). You will start to see objects in the near field (3rd person games it will be the main actor, like Batman) start to pop-out, then break/split into 2 discrete images. The goal is to be able to focus on objects at actor depth or slightly ahead comfortably without anything at that depth and closer seeming too far out of focus (double image). This setting is going to be different for everyone but with enough experience, you will find what settings you prefer and gravitate towards them in every game. LMK if you need more help.
[/quote]

Thank you for that explanation, it was very helpful. Games are looking better already after just 15 minutes of testing :)
Cheers OP!

I didn't know this even existed.



[quote name='chiz' date='19 February 2012 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1329679030' post='1371452']

Generally to adjust convergence, you set your preferred depth level. Then hold Ctrl-F6 (Can take 5-10 seconds sometimes before you start seeing any image shift). You will start to see objects in the near field (3rd person games it will be the main actor, like Batman) start to pop-out, then break/split into 2 discrete images. The goal is to be able to focus on objects at actor depth or slightly ahead comfortably without anything at that depth and closer seeming too far out of focus (double image). This setting is going to be different for everyone but with enough experience, you will find what settings you prefer and gravitate towards them in every game. LMK if you need more help.





Thank you for that explanation, it was very helpful. Games are looking better already after just 15 minutes of testing :)

#10
Posted 02/20/2012 12:36 AM   
When they make it so when the user presses the button, or holds it down for a full 5 or so seconds, nothing can happen, no visual indicator, just nothing.... you have to wonder how how much they care about new users.
When they make it so when the user presses the button, or holds it down for a full 5 or so seconds, nothing can happen, no visual indicator, just nothing.... you have to wonder how how much they care about new users.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#11
Posted 02/20/2012 02:48 AM   
These responces are perfect examples of the issue and I knew I wasn't the only one. There must be so many others who don't even know about this setting and they are missing out on so much.

Chances are they are the ones giving bad word about 3d vision.

I hope nvidia sees this and understands how big a deal it really is.
These responces are perfect examples of the issue and I knew I wasn't the only one. There must be so many others who don't even know about this setting and they are missing out on so much.



Chances are they are the ones giving bad word about 3d vision.



I hope nvidia sees this and understands how big a deal it really is.

#12
Posted 02/20/2012 03:04 AM   
I'm another one that didn't know about convergence until visiting these forums. The 3D profiles that Nvidia releases for most games are not to my liking, but convergence adjustments always fix that.
I'm another one that didn't know about convergence until visiting these forums. The 3D profiles that Nvidia releases for most games are not to my liking, but convergence adjustments always fix that.

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#13
Posted 02/20/2012 01:23 PM   
"Hiding" the convergence setting is a well though out move from Nvidia, because if you have an unlocked convergence setting the average user would think - "hmm, I have a wheel for setting the depth, why not another wheel for convergence" and seeing how it is so complicated to produce two wheels instead of one, why not lock the convergence altogether and hide it so that newbies will never thing such a setting exists, after all Nvidia and the devs know best what the perfect setting is for every game ever made /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
Everyone who's played using the iz3d drivers knows that they enable setting up to 3 profiles with independent separation and convergence settings and changing them on the fly, something that is obviously too complicated for Nvidia's programmers. Now imagine being able to set one profile for your gameplay and a separate for the cut-scenes and how easy it would be to switch back and forth when something doesn't feel right.
No user intervention, more like "we believe our users are simple and should not be given more things to temper with than necessary, or they may want even more features down in the road". Personally I can't see why a company that produces the hardware and the software to back that up cannot keep said software up to the standards of independent middle-ware producers. I mean, seriously some developers concider s-3d to be a niche market (Remedy being one of them), but for the company, which is trying to make a profit from s-3d to be shy on the features, doesn't really make much sense, does it /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
"Hiding" the convergence setting is a well though out move from Nvidia, because if you have an unlocked convergence setting the average user would think - "hmm, I have a wheel for setting the depth, why not another wheel for convergence" and seeing how it is so complicated to produce two wheels instead of one, why not lock the convergence altogether and hide it so that newbies will never thing such a setting exists, after all Nvidia and the devs know best what the perfect setting is for every game ever made /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.

Everyone who's played using the iz3d drivers knows that they enable setting up to 3 profiles with independent separation and convergence settings and changing them on the fly, something that is obviously too complicated for Nvidia's programmers. Now imagine being able to set one profile for your gameplay and a separate for the cut-scenes and how easy it would be to switch back and forth when something doesn't feel right.

No user intervention, more like "we believe our users are simple and should not be given more things to temper with than necessary, or they may want even more features down in the road". Personally I can't see why a company that produces the hardware and the software to back that up cannot keep said software up to the standards of independent middle-ware producers. I mean, seriously some developers concider s-3d to be a niche market (Remedy being one of them), but for the company, which is trying to make a profit from s-3d to be shy on the features, doesn't really make much sense, does it /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
#14
Posted 02/20/2012 01:41 PM   
Agree pretty much with everyone here. There are many games that suck with Depth and the 3D effect is buggy etc. But you can lower the depth to 15% and adjust the convergence to make these games work with 3D like, GTA4 for example. An on screen graphical indicator would be useful.
Agree pretty much with everyone here. There are many games that suck with Depth and the 3D effect is buggy etc. But you can lower the depth to 15% and adjust the convergence to make these games work with 3D like, GTA4 for example. An on screen graphical indicator would be useful.

#15
Posted 02/20/2012 06:31 PM   
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