THIS is why we DID NOT want Dev support, Deus Ex will be first of many
4 / 6
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='25 August 2011 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1314340321' post='1284426']
Am I right in thinking this HD3D produces the fake 3D we saw in Crysis 2? If so I think people will remain convinced 3D is a gimmic, devs will loose interest and we can campaign for better in-game graphical swithes that will benefit everyone. Here's to hoping.
[/quote]
No, it's true 3D. Depending on what type of video you are looking at and through what type of glasses. HD3D offers both passive and active solutions.
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='25 August 2011 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1314340321' post='1284426']
Am I right in thinking this HD3D produces the fake 3D we saw in Crysis 2? If so I think people will remain convinced 3D is a gimmic, devs will loose interest and we can campaign for better in-game graphical swithes that will benefit everyone. Here's to hoping.
No, it's true 3D. Depending on what type of video you are looking at and through what type of glasses. HD3D offers both passive and active solutions.
By his definition, using novel, yet-supported haptic / force feedback user interface is also a no-go? Because it requires modding & stuff? Mouse / gamepad gaming is cool enough huh?
As with 3d , only devs can get it right? Huh?
How about a next gen console Blackshark, sounds like they make it with *you* in mind. Don't worry it'll arrive eventually! And you never have to turn stuff on and off again /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
-Cheap & EASY!!!
ps.: To tell the truth, I have a novint falcon FFB device, and I wouldn't even play that Deus Ex game without MY FFB *hack*. So I don't give a damn about 3D vision being late.
By his definition, using novel, yet-supported haptic / force feedback user interface is also a no-go? Because it requires modding & stuff? Mouse / gamepad gaming is cool enough huh?
As with 3d , only devs can get it right? Huh?
How about a next gen console Blackshark, sounds like they make it with *you* in mind. Don't worry it'll arrive eventually! And you never have to turn stuff on and off again /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
-Cheap & EASY!!!
ps.: To tell the truth, I have a novint falcon FFB device, and I wouldn't even play that Deus Ex game without MY FFB *hack*. So I don't give a damn about 3D vision being late.
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='28 August 2011 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1314541511' post='1285301']
With blockbuster titles using "native 3d" as an excuse for lazy stuff, encrypting, scrambling game data, and you blackshark , still endorse this plainly wrong practice, well , you have quite a confirmation bias pal. Maybe you should get off it.
Also your standards are way off, if you think 2233rz was ever "state of art" . LOL.
[/quote]
Scrambling game data is a practice that predates 3D adoption by decades. Some developers do it, others don't. Some allow mods, some don't.
Some developers implementing 3D support, only implement one display output support, some do more.
Some developers implementing 3D support do lock convergence, some don't.
It's up to them to meet out needs, and to us to tell them what our needs are.
We operate in a free market, developers make stuff (PCs, consoles, games, 3D Vision, or the Novint Falcon), we decide weather or not they are worth our money. If you're not happy, become a developer and just do it yourself.
Regarding 3D Monitors, that was a conversation started in an other thread about the history of Samsung's cooperation with Nvidia 3D vision, and I stand by my words.
If you disagree with me, please feel free to mention which consumer LCD desktop monitor you consider was state of the art at that period in the appropriate thread.
[quote name='tritosine2k' date='28 August 2011 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1314541511' post='1285301']
With blockbuster titles using "native 3d" as an excuse for lazy stuff, encrypting, scrambling game data, and you blackshark , still endorse this plainly wrong practice, well , you have quite a confirmation bias pal. Maybe you should get off it.
Also your standards are way off, if you think 2233rz was ever "state of art" . LOL.
Scrambling game data is a practice that predates 3D adoption by decades. Some developers do it, others don't. Some allow mods, some don't.
Some developers implementing 3D support, only implement one display output support, some do more.
Some developers implementing 3D support do lock convergence, some don't.
It's up to them to meet out needs, and to us to tell them what our needs are.
We operate in a free market, developers make stuff (PCs, consoles, games, 3D Vision, or the Novint Falcon), we decide weather or not they are worth our money. If you're not happy, become a developer and just do it yourself.
Regarding 3D Monitors, that was a conversation started in an other thread about the history of Samsung's cooperation with Nvidia 3D vision, and I stand by my words.
If you disagree with me, please feel free to mention which consumer LCD desktop monitor you consider was state of the art at that period in the appropriate thread.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='27 August 2011 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1314483325' post='1285093']
You and I have a different definition of a game being "fine without profiles".
Having to switch off shadows in 3/4 of the games, switch off HUDs, hack games, add dedicated mods, are hardly things I consider "fine".
I hope you enjoy playing Crysis 1 with about every significant eye candy off, the huge screen-depth HUD objects in Unreal Tournament 3... and so on.
Dev support is good, they just need to learn how to do it right. It takes some time but once they do it right you get great stuff like Avatar the game, Metro 2033, Trine, Batman,... there are many excellent examples.
[/quote]
This. Motion blur and other enhancements aren't such a big deal, but I for one do not like playing with shadows off. I think they make a huge difference to the quality of the game. Bad as I hate to say it, but I honestly would have rather waited the three months it took them to fix TW2, than had it working on day of release but only by turning shadows completely off.
I am also playing The First Templar right now, and it had no developer support regarding 3D. Everything works great except for shadows, but you can turn them off. I actually left them on, because even though they appear a little strange, they add so much more quality and depth than with them off. - just my opinion.
[quote name='BlackSharkfr' date='27 August 2011 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1314483325' post='1285093']
You and I have a different definition of a game being "fine without profiles".
Having to switch off shadows in 3/4 of the games, switch off HUDs, hack games, add dedicated mods, are hardly things I consider "fine".
I hope you enjoy playing Crysis 1 with about every significant eye candy off, the huge screen-depth HUD objects in Unreal Tournament 3... and so on.
Dev support is good, they just need to learn how to do it right. It takes some time but once they do it right you get great stuff like Avatar the game, Metro 2033, Trine, Batman,... there are many excellent examples.
This. Motion blur and other enhancements aren't such a big deal, but I for one do not like playing with shadows off. I think they make a huge difference to the quality of the game. Bad as I hate to say it, but I honestly would have rather waited the three months it took them to fix TW2, than had it working on day of release but only by turning shadows completely off.
I am also playing The First Templar right now, and it had no developer support regarding 3D. Everything works great except for shadows, but you can turn them off. I actually left them on, because even though they appear a little strange, they add so much more quality and depth than with them off. - just my opinion.
|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:MSI 1080GTX "Duke"
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64
Shadows is an issue. But thankfully I cant think of many games I have had to turn them off though. When I have, I have personally found it ok when they are off (I guess its the games though). Bethesda was intelligent enough in Oblivion, I noticed, to obscure the sun if you turned off shadows. That was my experience anyway.
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
Shadows is an issue. But thankfully I cant think of many games I have had to turn them off though. When I have, I have personally found it ok when they are off (I guess its the games though). Bethesda was intelligent enough in Oblivion, I noticed, to obscure the sun if you turned off shadows. That was my experience anyway.
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='29 August 2011 - 03:17 AM' timestamp='1314605820' post='1285683']
Shadows is an issue. But thankfully I cant think of many games I have had to turn them off though. When I have, I have personally found it ok when they are off (I guess its the games though). Bethesda was intelligent enough in Oblivion, I noticed, to obscure the sun if you turned off shadows. That was my experience anyway.
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
[/quote]
Problem is that a lot of games are ported from the 360 to the PC, and they take a lot of shortcuts just to get it to the screen. The fact that these objects and effects might someday be rendered in true 3D is taken for granted. It really does boil down to laziness.
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='29 August 2011 - 03:17 AM' timestamp='1314605820' post='1285683']
Shadows is an issue. But thankfully I cant think of many games I have had to turn them off though. When I have, I have personally found it ok when they are off (I guess its the games though). Bethesda was intelligent enough in Oblivion, I noticed, to obscure the sun if you turned off shadows. That was my experience anyway.
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
Problem is that a lot of games are ported from the 360 to the PC, and they take a lot of shortcuts just to get it to the screen. The fact that these objects and effects might someday be rendered in true 3D is taken for granted. It really does boil down to laziness.
AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision
Got my finger burnt with Crysis 2. I have [i][b]no[/b][/i] idea why nVidia rated it excellent! OK, the 3D appears to work, but lets be honest, fire up any glitchy game and it will look better at such low depths. Tweak Crysis 2's config file to increase the depth to normal and it is a right mess. It reminds me of when I have had a really bad migrain and my vision has screwed. With Crysis 2's default max depth, it is simply too low to play. I would be astonished if it is even close to 20% depth, 15% tops maybe. [b]nVidia[/b], that's simply not good enough for an EXCELLENT rated game!
OK there some 3D supported games that get it right, but to be honest, the frequency of these dev controlled 3D games that get it right can be considered 50/50. When they go wrong there is often very little you can do to fix it. Unlocking convergence for example. [i]Incidently I dont rate Avatar's 3D, the convergence is always too high at high depths.[/i]
Guys
Please do not ask devs for 3D support; just ask them to provide plenty of tweakable options. Ask them to not worry about 3D; just ask them to make their games properly without shortcut. Look at Bethesda, their games look great and they hate 3D. Because they have produced tweakable games and not worried about making their games 3D, their games shine!
Also, everyone can benefit from a highly customisable game, not just us 3D users.
Got my finger burnt with Crysis 2. I have no idea why nVidia rated it excellent! OK, the 3D appears to work, but lets be honest, fire up any glitchy game and it will look better at such low depths. Tweak Crysis 2's config file to increase the depth to normal and it is a right mess. It reminds me of when I have had a really bad migrain and my vision has screwed. With Crysis 2's default max depth, it is simply too low to play. I would be astonished if it is even close to 20% depth, 15% tops maybe. nVidia, that's simply not good enough for an EXCELLENT rated game!
OK there some 3D supported games that get it right, but to be honest, the frequency of these dev controlled 3D games that get it right can be considered 50/50. When they go wrong there is often very little you can do to fix it. Unlocking convergence for example. Incidently I dont rate Avatar's 3D, the convergence is always too high at high depths.
Guys
Please do not ask devs for 3D support; just ask them to provide plenty of tweakable options. Ask them to not worry about 3D; just ask them to make their games properly without shortcut. Look at Bethesda, their games look great and they hate 3D. Because they have produced tweakable games and not worried about making their games 3D, their games shine!
Also, everyone can benefit from a highly customisable game, not just us 3D users.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Well, there are some things the developers HAVE to do. The 3D nameplates and 3D mouse pointer we've been mumbling about over in the Star Wars topic, for instance. But you're right; developers that try to take full control of 3D often make a horrible mess of things. Not always (the Batman games and {eventually} Witcher 2 come to mind) but often enough that I have to wonder what's going on. Why in heaven's name would you ever lock convergence, for instance?? People with different sized monitors/TVs/projectors need to be able to mess around with that stuff!
Well, thank goodness for MTBS. I wish more people would support their system. Right now, there are no submissions for 3D Vision and [url=http://www.mtbs3d.com/gg3d/index.php?lim=30&grp_by=pos_gam_name&sdr=all&ord=&sdr_dev=]Crysis 2[/url].
P.S. From the screenshots I've seen with Crysis 2, I've not only been staying away from the game but I've also been worried about any game planning to use their engine.
Well, there are some things the developers HAVE to do. The 3D nameplates and 3D mouse pointer we've been mumbling about over in the Star Wars topic, for instance. But you're right; developers that try to take full control of 3D often make a horrible mess of things. Not always (the Batman games and {eventually} Witcher 2 come to mind) but often enough that I have to wonder what's going on. Why in heaven's name would you ever lock convergence, for instance?? People with different sized monitors/TVs/projectors need to be able to mess around with that stuff!
Well, thank goodness for MTBS. I wish more people would support their system. Right now, there are no submissions for 3D Vision and Crysis 2.
P.S. From the screenshots I've seen with Crysis 2, I've not only been staying away from the game but I've also been worried about any game planning to use their engine.
I just added my contribution. The system awarded Crysis 2 Platinum - D 100% - sigh!
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='27 November 2011 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1322414208' post='1333521']
I just added my contribution. The system awarded Crysis 2 Platinum - D 100% - sigh!
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
[/quote]
Hi Andy,
Crysis 2 is kind of a mistake we let slide in GG3D(another member submitted it first). Crysis 2 is a 2D+Depth game, which means it's not REALLY a stereoscopic 3D game. If you read through the submission guidelines, we ask that 2D+Depth games not be submitted (we even list Crysis 2 by name!), and that 2D+Depth features in alternative 3D drivers get shut off. We are putting some thought into how to measure 2D+Depth titles, but GameGrade3D isn't at all designed for this yet. That's why you got an undeserving Platinum-D for Crysis 2.
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='27 November 2011 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1322414208' post='1333521']
I just added my contribution. The system awarded Crysis 2 Platinum - D 100% - sigh!
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
Hi Andy,
Crysis 2 is kind of a mistake we let slide in GG3D(another member submitted it first). Crysis 2 is a 2D+Depth game, which means it's not REALLY a stereoscopic 3D game. If you read through the submission guidelines, we ask that 2D+Depth games not be submitted (we even list Crysis 2 by name!), and that 2D+Depth features in alternative 3D drivers get shut off. We are putting some thought into how to measure 2D+Depth titles, but GameGrade3D isn't at all designed for this yet. That's why you got an undeserving Platinum-D for Crysis 2.
"Every PC game, starting from later versions of DirectX 8 [a suite of development applications], had the 3D information in it," says David Chechelashvili, head of the gaming division at 3D hardware-maker XpanD Cinema. "There was no media, however, to display it." The dual virtual cameras have been running since 2002, but until recently there was no way to check the quality of the combined footage, or to tweak a given scene or 3D effect."
Read more: Why 3D Doesn't Work for TV, But Is Great for Gaming: Analysis - Popular Mechanics
It's a good read http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/digital/gaming/4342437
"Every PC game, starting from later versions of DirectX 8 [a suite of development applications], had the 3D information in it," says David Chechelashvili, head of the gaming division at 3D hardware-maker XpanD Cinema. "There was no media, however, to display it." The dual virtual cameras have been running since 2002, but until recently there was no way to check the quality of the combined footage, or to tweak a given scene or 3D effect."
Read more: Why 3D Doesn't Work for TV, But Is Great for Gaming: Analysis - Popular Mechanics
That article is what I have been trying to say to anyone who sniffs at 3D gaming saying its a gimmick when their only experience of 3D is tv/movies. Great find.
3D is inherently built into games. Therefore if the devs just concentrate on building their games well, their games should render well in 3D! Should...
@ Chopper.
Cool, soz, so it is. I should have RTFM - again!
Discovered Sunday that, with tweaking, Crysis can look pretty good (IMO). Frankly the 3D community is amazing.
That article is what I have been trying to say to anyone who sniffs at 3D gaming saying its a gimmick when their only experience of 3D is tv/movies. Great find.
3D is inherently built into games. Therefore if the devs just concentrate on building their games well, their games should render well in 3D! Should...
@ Chopper.
Cool, soz, so it is. I should have RTFM - again!
Discovered Sunday that, with tweaking, Crysis can look pretty good (IMO). Frankly the 3D community is amazing.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Well it's all about the cameras, virtual cameras are easier to control but are not without their problems. There were several articles I've read talking about inherent problems with camera collision, that need to be observed. Unfortunately, I can not find them.
Myself, I'd prefer that Devs get onboard with the 3D support that was offered by Avatar the game. All the 3D formats choices were there in the menu, including Sensio and dual head. It gave the user control over everything, so the user could configure the best solution scaling to the features/power of their gpu and display. Instead of the locked profiles, limited formats and restricted user intervention path that Nvidia has taken.
Well it's all about the cameras, virtual cameras are easier to control but are not without their problems. There were several articles I've read talking about inherent problems with camera collision, that need to be observed. Unfortunately, I can not find them.
Myself, I'd prefer that Devs get onboard with the 3D support that was offered by Avatar the game. All the 3D formats choices were there in the menu, including Sensio and dual head. It gave the user control over everything, so the user could configure the best solution scaling to the features/power of their gpu and display. Instead of the locked profiles, limited formats and restricted user intervention path that Nvidia has taken.
Am I right in thinking this HD3D produces the fake 3D we saw in Crysis 2? If so I think people will remain convinced 3D is a gimmic, devs will loose interest and we can campaign for better in-game graphical swithes that will benefit everyone. Here's to hoping.
[/quote]
No, it's true 3D. Depending on what type of video you are looking at and through what type of glasses. HD3D offers both passive and active solutions.
Am I right in thinking this HD3D produces the fake 3D we saw in Crysis 2? If so I think people will remain convinced 3D is a gimmic, devs will loose interest and we can campaign for better in-game graphical swithes that will benefit everyone. Here's to hoping.
No, it's true 3D. Depending on what type of video you are looking at and through what type of glasses. HD3D offers both passive and active solutions.
As with 3d , only devs can get it right? Huh?
How about a next gen console Blackshark, sounds like they make it with *you* in mind. Don't worry it'll arrive eventually! And you never have to turn stuff on and off again
-Cheap & EASY!!!
ps.: To tell the truth, I have a novint falcon FFB device, and I wouldn't even play that Deus Ex game without MY FFB *hack*. So I don't give a damn about 3D vision being late.
As with 3d , only devs can get it right? Huh?
How about a next gen console Blackshark, sounds like they make it with *you* in mind. Don't worry it'll arrive eventually! And you never have to turn stuff on and off again
-Cheap & EASY!!!
ps.: To tell the truth, I have a novint falcon FFB device, and I wouldn't even play that Deus Ex game without MY FFB *hack*. So I don't give a damn about 3D vision being late.
With blockbuster titles using "native 3d" as an excuse for lazy stuff, encrypting, scrambling game data, and you blackshark , still endorse this plainly wrong practice, well , you have quite a confirmation bias pal. Maybe you should get off it.
Also your standards are way off, if you think 2233rz was ever "state of art" . LOL.
[/quote]
Scrambling game data is a practice that predates 3D adoption by decades. Some developers do it, others don't. Some allow mods, some don't.
Some developers implementing 3D support, only implement one display output support, some do more.
Some developers implementing 3D support do lock convergence, some don't.
It's up to them to meet out needs, and to us to tell them what our needs are.
We operate in a free market, developers make stuff (PCs, consoles, games, 3D Vision, or the Novint Falcon), we decide weather or not they are worth our money. If you're not happy, become a developer and just do it yourself.
Regarding 3D Monitors, that was a conversation started in an other thread about the history of Samsung's cooperation with Nvidia 3D vision, and I stand by my words.
If you disagree with me, please feel free to mention which consumer LCD desktop monitor you consider was state of the art at that period in the appropriate thread.
With blockbuster titles using "native 3d" as an excuse for lazy stuff, encrypting, scrambling game data, and you blackshark , still endorse this plainly wrong practice, well , you have quite a confirmation bias pal. Maybe you should get off it.
Also your standards are way off, if you think 2233rz was ever "state of art" . LOL.
Scrambling game data is a practice that predates 3D adoption by decades. Some developers do it, others don't. Some allow mods, some don't.
Some developers implementing 3D support, only implement one display output support, some do more.
Some developers implementing 3D support do lock convergence, some don't.
It's up to them to meet out needs, and to us to tell them what our needs are.
We operate in a free market, developers make stuff (PCs, consoles, games, 3D Vision, or the Novint Falcon), we decide weather or not they are worth our money. If you're not happy, become a developer and just do it yourself.
Regarding 3D Monitors, that was a conversation started in an other thread about the history of Samsung's cooperation with Nvidia 3D vision, and I stand by my words.
If you disagree with me, please feel free to mention which consumer LCD desktop monitor you consider was state of the art at that period in the appropriate thread.
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
You and I have a different definition of a game being "fine without profiles".
Having to switch off shadows in 3/4 of the games, switch off HUDs, hack games, add dedicated mods, are hardly things I consider "fine".
I hope you enjoy playing Crysis 1 with about every significant eye candy off, the huge screen-depth HUD objects in Unreal Tournament 3... and so on.
Dev support is good, they just need to learn how to do it right. It takes some time but once they do it right you get great stuff like Avatar the game, Metro 2033, Trine, Batman,... there are many excellent examples.
[/quote]
This. Motion blur and other enhancements aren't such a big deal, but I for one do not like playing with shadows off. I think they make a huge difference to the quality of the game. Bad as I hate to say it, but I honestly would have rather waited the three months it took them to fix TW2, than had it working on day of release but only by turning shadows completely off.
I am also playing The First Templar right now, and it had no developer support regarding 3D. Everything works great except for shadows, but you can turn them off. I actually left them on, because even though they appear a little strange, they add so much more quality and depth than with them off. - just my opinion.
You and I have a different definition of a game being "fine without profiles".
Having to switch off shadows in 3/4 of the games, switch off HUDs, hack games, add dedicated mods, are hardly things I consider "fine".
I hope you enjoy playing Crysis 1 with about every significant eye candy off, the huge screen-depth HUD objects in Unreal Tournament 3... and so on.
Dev support is good, they just need to learn how to do it right. It takes some time but once they do it right you get great stuff like Avatar the game, Metro 2033, Trine, Batman,... there are many excellent examples.
This. Motion blur and other enhancements aren't such a big deal, but I for one do not like playing with shadows off. I think they make a huge difference to the quality of the game. Bad as I hate to say it, but I honestly would have rather waited the three months it took them to fix TW2, than had it working on day of release but only by turning shadows completely off.
I am also playing The First Templar right now, and it had no developer support regarding 3D. Everything works great except for shadows, but you can turn them off. I actually left them on, because even though they appear a little strange, they add so much more quality and depth than with them off. - just my opinion.
|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:MSI 1080GTX "Duke"
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
Shadows is an issue. But thankfully I cant think of many games I have had to turn them off though. When I have, I have personally found it ok when they are off (I guess its the games though). Bethesda was intelligent enough in Oblivion, I noticed, to obscure the sun if you turned off shadows. That was my experience anyway.
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
[/quote]
Problem is that a lot of games are ported from the 360 to the PC, and they take a lot of shortcuts just to get it to the screen. The fact that these objects and effects might someday be rendered in true 3D is taken for granted. It really does boil down to laziness.
Shadows is an issue. But thankfully I cant think of many games I have had to turn them off though. When I have, I have personally found it ok when they are off (I guess its the games though). Bethesda was intelligent enough in Oblivion, I noticed, to obscure the sun if you turned off shadows. That was my experience anyway.
I have demo'ed GTA 4 and Oblivion to many students at my school and NO ONE even noticed the lack of shadows! On an overcast day or when you are in diffused light the only shadows you will see are directly under large objects (under cars or under the gap of the sofa). It's currently a cloudy day in Na'rch (suprise suprise) and the cyclist I saw, the streetlight even the other houses are not casting shadows.
Of course I would rather have shadows.
If devs were simply not lazy in their coding and rendered everything in 3D this wouldnt be a problem for us 3D Vision users. And if they all provided decent graphic option enambling you to turn off 2D things like crosshair - brilliant. If there was a 3D standard across formats that would be mega but the world doesnt work like that.
I understand 3D Vision is better than AMDs 3D (driver and support wise anyway) but I remember Betamax v VHS. Betamax alegidly was the superia format but we all know what happened there...
Problem is that a lot of games are ported from the 360 to the PC, and they take a lot of shortcuts just to get it to the screen. The fact that these objects and effects might someday be rendered in true 3D is taken for granted. It really does boil down to laziness.
AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision
Got my finger burnt with Crysis 2. I have [i][b]no[/b][/i] idea why nVidia rated it excellent! OK, the 3D appears to work, but lets be honest, fire up any glitchy game and it will look better at such low depths. Tweak Crysis 2's config file to increase the depth to normal and it is a right mess. It reminds me of when I have had a really bad migrain and my vision has screwed. With Crysis 2's default max depth, it is simply too low to play. I would be astonished if it is even close to 20% depth, 15% tops maybe. [b]nVidia[/b], that's simply not good enough for an EXCELLENT rated game!
OK there some 3D supported games that get it right, but to be honest, the frequency of these dev controlled 3D games that get it right can be considered 50/50. When they go wrong there is often very little you can do to fix it. Unlocking convergence for example. [i]Incidently I dont rate Avatar's 3D, the convergence is always too high at high depths.[/i]
Guys
Please do not ask devs for 3D support; just ask them to provide plenty of tweakable options. Ask them to not worry about 3D; just ask them to make their games properly without shortcut. Look at Bethesda, their games look great and they hate 3D. Because they have produced tweakable games and not worried about making their games 3D, their games shine!
Also, everyone can benefit from a highly customisable game, not just us 3D users.
Got my finger burnt with Crysis 2. I have no idea why nVidia rated it excellent! OK, the 3D appears to work, but lets be honest, fire up any glitchy game and it will look better at such low depths. Tweak Crysis 2's config file to increase the depth to normal and it is a right mess. It reminds me of when I have had a really bad migrain and my vision has screwed. With Crysis 2's default max depth, it is simply too low to play. I would be astonished if it is even close to 20% depth, 15% tops maybe. nVidia, that's simply not good enough for an EXCELLENT rated game!
OK there some 3D supported games that get it right, but to be honest, the frequency of these dev controlled 3D games that get it right can be considered 50/50. When they go wrong there is often very little you can do to fix it. Unlocking convergence for example. Incidently I dont rate Avatar's 3D, the convergence is always too high at high depths.
Guys
Please do not ask devs for 3D support; just ask them to provide plenty of tweakable options. Ask them to not worry about 3D; just ask them to make their games properly without shortcut. Look at Bethesda, their games look great and they hate 3D. Because they have produced tweakable games and not worried about making their games 3D, their games shine!
Also, everyone can benefit from a highly customisable game, not just us 3D users.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
Well, thank goodness for MTBS. I wish more people would support their system. Right now, there are no submissions for 3D Vision and [url=http://www.mtbs3d.com/gg3d/index.php?lim=30&grp_by=pos_gam_name&sdr=all&ord=&sdr_dev=]Crysis 2[/url].
P.S. From the screenshots I've seen with Crysis 2, I've not only been staying away from the game but I've also been worried about any game planning to use their engine.
Well, thank goodness for MTBS. I wish more people would support their system. Right now, there are no submissions for 3D Vision and Crysis 2.
P.S. From the screenshots I've seen with Crysis 2, I've not only been staying away from the game but I've also been worried about any game planning to use their engine.
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
I just added my contribution. The system awarded Crysis 2 Platinum - D 100% - sigh!
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
[/quote]
Hi Andy,
Crysis 2 is kind of a mistake we let slide in GG3D(another member submitted it first). Crysis 2 is a 2D+Depth game, which means it's not REALLY a stereoscopic 3D game. If you read through the submission guidelines, we ask that 2D+Depth games not be submitted (we even list Crysis 2 by name!), and that 2D+Depth features in alternative 3D drivers get shut off. We are putting some thought into how to measure 2D+Depth titles, but GameGrade3D isn't at all designed for this yet. That's why you got an undeserving Platinum-D for Crysis 2.
Regards,
Chopper
I just added my contribution. The system awarded Crysis 2 Platinum - D 100% - sigh!
GameGrade3D is usually very good though.
Hi Andy,
Crysis 2 is kind of a mistake we let slide in GG3D(another member submitted it first). Crysis 2 is a 2D+Depth game, which means it's not REALLY a stereoscopic 3D game. If you read through the submission guidelines, we ask that 2D+Depth games not be submitted (we even list Crysis 2 by name!), and that 2D+Depth features in alternative 3D drivers get shut off. We are putting some thought into how to measure 2D+Depth titles, but GameGrade3D isn't at all designed for this yet. That's why you got an undeserving Platinum-D for Crysis 2.
Regards,
Chopper
"Every PC game, starting from later versions of DirectX 8 [a suite of development applications], had the 3D information in it," says David Chechelashvili, head of the gaming division at 3D hardware-maker XpanD Cinema. "There was no media, however, to display it." The dual virtual cameras have been running since 2002, but until recently there was no way to check the quality of the combined footage, or to tweak a given scene or 3D effect."
Read more: Why 3D Doesn't Work for TV, But Is Great for Gaming: Analysis - Popular Mechanics
It's a good read http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/digital/gaming/4342437
"Every PC game, starting from later versions of DirectX 8 [a suite of development applications], had the 3D information in it," says David Chechelashvili, head of the gaming division at 3D hardware-maker XpanD Cinema. "There was no media, however, to display it." The dual virtual cameras have been running since 2002, but until recently there was no way to check the quality of the combined footage, or to tweak a given scene or 3D effect."
Read more: Why 3D Doesn't Work for TV, But Is Great for Gaming: Analysis - Popular Mechanics
It's a good read http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/digital/gaming/4342437
3D is inherently built into games. Therefore if the devs just concentrate on building their games well, their games should render well in 3D! Should...
@ Chopper.
Cool, soz, so it is. I should have RTFM - again!
Discovered Sunday that, with tweaking, Crysis can look pretty good (IMO). Frankly the 3D community is amazing.
3D is inherently built into games. Therefore if the devs just concentrate on building their games well, their games should render well in 3D! Should...
@ Chopper.
Cool, soz, so it is. I should have RTFM - again!
Discovered Sunday that, with tweaking, Crysis can look pretty good (IMO). Frankly the 3D community is amazing.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
Myself, I'd prefer that Devs get onboard with the 3D support that was offered by Avatar the game. All the 3D formats choices were there in the menu, including Sensio and dual head. It gave the user control over everything, so the user could configure the best solution scaling to the features/power of their gpu and display. Instead of the locked profiles, limited formats and restricted user intervention path that Nvidia has taken.
Myself, I'd prefer that Devs get onboard with the 3D support that was offered by Avatar the game. All the 3D formats choices were there in the menu, including Sensio and dual head. It gave the user control over everything, so the user could configure the best solution scaling to the features/power of their gpu and display. Instead of the locked profiles, limited formats and restricted user intervention path that Nvidia has taken.