Skyrim and 3D depth
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I recently fired up Skyrim, added the Helix patch and started a new char in Skyrim. my question is Why does it appear to have very little depth? its sort of like Crysis 2 (fake 3D). i can adjust the depth with the depth keys and it doesn't really do anything. Some of the screen grabs i look at, like on the Helix site show lots of depth in bridges and object further away. the convergence keys don't work either. it certainly doesn't pop out like Trine or Metro. thoughts?
I recently fired up Skyrim, added the Helix patch and started a new char in Skyrim. my question is
Why does it appear to have very little depth?

its sort of like Crysis 2 (fake 3D). i can adjust the depth with the depth keys and it doesn't really do anything.

Some of the screen grabs i look at, like on the Helix site show lots of depth in bridges and object further away. the convergence keys don't work either. it certainly doesn't pop out like Trine or Metro.

thoughts?

65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential

#1
Posted 11/28/2013 06:55 AM   
Adjust your convergence. You need to turn it on in the nvidia control panel under set keyboard shortcuts/advanced settings and change the keybinds because they are terrible for skyrim.
Adjust your convergence. You need to turn it on in the nvidia control panel under set keyboard shortcuts/advanced settings and change the keybinds because they are terrible for skyrim.

#2
Posted 11/28/2013 07:31 AM   
eqzitara help me this with this hack some time ago for me to use with Dark Sector,open notepad and paste this in: @Echo Off set _loops=0 :start @REG ADD "HKLM\Software\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D" /v MonitorSize /t REG_DWORD /d 76 /f set /a _loops +=1 if %_loops%==100000 goto end goto start :end Rename it at whateveryouwant.bat. Click the bat before you play you should have 150% depth at 100% It works with 64 bit system.
eqzitara help me this with this hack some time ago for me to use with Dark Sector,open notepad and paste this in:



@Echo Off

set _loops=0

:start

@REG ADD "HKLM\Software\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D" /v MonitorSize /t REG_DWORD /d 76 /f

set /a _loops +=1

if %_loops%==100000 goto end

goto start

:end





Rename it at whateveryouwant.bat. Click the bat before you play you should have 150% depth at 100%

It works with 64 bit system.

#3
Posted 11/28/2013 07:45 AM   
Weird, i didn't have any problems when i played. Speaking of Eqzitara and Skyrim. He mentioned using Nvidia Inspector to remove skyrim.exe from the skyrim profile, which eliminated my stuttering and low frame rate. No clue why, but it worked. Also speaking of Eqzitara, where is he off too? Working for Nvidia maybe... :)
Weird, i didn't have any problems when i played.

Speaking of Eqzitara and Skyrim. He mentioned using Nvidia Inspector to remove skyrim.exe from the skyrim profile, which eliminated my stuttering and low frame rate. No clue why, but it worked.

Also speaking of Eqzitara, where is he off too? Working for Nvidia maybe... :)

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#4
Posted 11/28/2013 07:59 AM   
@Kolreth so convergence keys work for you in game in Skyrim? mine are turned on and remapped they just dont do anything. @ricardokung will give the depth bat file a go @Libertine will try the profile thang, maybe that will kick it in so you guys are saying this should have lots of depth in game? and not be the cryris 2 situation of everything appearing shallow?
@Kolreth so convergence keys work for you in game in Skyrim? mine are turned on and remapped they just dont do anything.

@ricardokung will give the depth bat file a go

@Libertine will try the profile thang, maybe that will kick it in

so you guys are saying this should have lots of depth in game? and not be the cryris 2 situation of everything appearing shallow?

65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential

#5
Posted 11/28/2013 08:05 AM   
Yup, I keybind ctrl [ and ] for up and down, never had a problem with convergence adjusting, Alea the huntress's boobs when she is wearing daedric armour could take your eyes out if you wanted. *edit* It does take a long time before it looks like anything convergence wise is happening, just tested it again to be sure it works.
Yup, I keybind ctrl [ and ] for up and down, never had a problem with convergence adjusting, Alea the huntress's boobs when she is wearing daedric armour could take your eyes out if you wanted.

*edit* It does take a long time before it looks like anything convergence wise is happening, just tested it again to be sure it works.

#6
Posted 11/28/2013 08:26 AM   
twas convergence Kolreth thanks boys, had to hold the key down for ages, but now its full of depth! sweet as
twas convergence Kolreth

thanks boys, had to hold the key down for ages, but now its full of depth!

sweet as

65" Samsung ES8000 LED, i7-3820, Asus P9X79, GTX680 SLI, Win8 Checkerboard /Win7 Frame Sequential

#7
Posted 11/28/2013 10:47 AM   
[quote="Libertine"] Also speaking of Eqzitara, where is he off too? Working for Nvidia maybe... :)[/quote] Been wondering the same thing myself...
Libertine said:
Also speaking of Eqzitara, where is he off too? Working for Nvidia maybe... :)


Been wondering the same thing myself...

#8
Posted 11/28/2013 02:16 PM   
[quote="betc"]thanks boys, had to hold the key down for ages, but now its full of depth![/quote] Nvidia, please imagine a new 3D Vision buyer trying to make it through this same process! You are aware that sometime you press the convergence hotkey and nothing can happen for like 10 seconds? Or that they don't use the convergence key in the first place, making the scene look anywhere from unviewable to completely off size wise and distance wise?
betc said:thanks boys, had to hold the key down for ages, but now its full of depth!


Nvidia, please imagine a new 3D Vision buyer trying to make it through this same process!

You are aware that sometime you press the convergence hotkey and nothing can happen for like 10 seconds? Or that they don't use the convergence key in the first place, making the scene look anywhere from unviewable to completely off size wise and distance wise?

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#9
Posted 11/28/2013 06:53 PM   
Hopefully people don't mind if I ask my questions here, since I am still a bit new on 3d. I bought skyrim and all of its dlc during the Steam sale this week and wanted to try out the 3d in it, now I read a bit around and saw that I had to install the Helix mod, so i download the 1.5 and up fix for it and placed all the files directly in my steam > skyrim folder. Skyrim judged my pc for Ultra high settings and thats what I am running it on. In game, I turned 3D on with Control + T and it works. It worked even without the helix mod though. Anyway, I cranked up the depth to 100% and it was really painfull to watch. Then I read around that I had to play with convergence, so i unlocked it under the advanced options, remapped it to control + [ for higher and control + ] for lower, like the poster above. Now, when i hold the buttons down for convergence up, the screen gets blurry and I see pretty much 2 images(ghosting). Then I pretty much held it down all the way and it looked pretty good. However if I tweak it to the point both images meet eachother perfectly, it looks good but there is this bright unpleasent glare while watching it. King of like a bright glare. Could this be related to nvidia lightboost technology? I am using a VG278HR monitor from asus btw.
Hopefully people don't mind if I ask my questions here, since I am still a bit new on 3d.

I bought skyrim and all of its dlc during the Steam sale this week and wanted to try out the 3d in it, now I read a bit around and saw that I had to install the Helix mod, so i download the 1.5 and up fix for it and placed all the files directly in my steam > skyrim folder.

Skyrim judged my pc for Ultra high settings and thats what I am running it on. In game, I turned 3D on with Control + T and it works. It worked even without the helix mod though. Anyway, I cranked up the depth to 100% and it was really painfull to watch.

Then I read around that I had to play with convergence, so i unlocked it under the advanced options, remapped it to control + [ for higher and control + ] for lower, like the poster above.

Now, when i hold the buttons down for convergence up, the screen gets blurry and I see pretty much 2 images(ghosting). Then I pretty much held it down all the way and it looked pretty good. However if I tweak it to the point both images meet eachother perfectly, it looks good but there is this bright unpleasent glare while watching it.

King of like a bright glare.

Could this be related to nvidia lightboost technology? I am using a VG278HR monitor from asus btw.

#10
Posted 11/29/2013 02:15 AM   
Should be no glare. Not sure what thats about. To set 3D, take a ruler and measure the separation of object in the distance, like a mountain peak. It should be wider than your IPD, or distance between your eyes (6.5cm average). That is changed via the depth setting. From there change convergence so everything in front of you looks properly proportioned. That should give you a realistic 3D look. From there you can tweak it as you like for more depth, just keep in mind that the perceived size of objects will change.
Should be no glare. Not sure what thats about.

To set 3D, take a ruler and measure the separation of object in the distance, like a mountain peak. It should be wider than your IPD, or distance between your eyes (6.5cm average). That is changed via the depth setting. From there change convergence so everything in front of you looks properly proportioned. That should give you a realistic 3D look. From there you can tweak it as you like for more depth, just keep in mind that the perceived size of objects will change.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#11
Posted 11/29/2013 02:57 AM   
I am temporarily not using the Helix mod until I actually get 3D depth working properly. Right now, when I enable 3D, it appears that instead of getting the world of Tamriel in 3D, I get 2 flat layers: a UI layer (which appears to sit at neutral depth), and a gameworld layer (which appears to sit behind it, moving closer and farther as I adjust the depth). There is no 3D effect applied to the gameworld at all, as if my Dark Elf is a cyclops. The "popped" UI tells me that the 3D is working fine in the TV and in the GPU, but that the 3DTV Play software is failing to properly render a second "eye" in the game. Is this the "convergence" issue you were all talking about? I tried adjusting the convergence in the game, but the keys don't do anything. [quote="Syrellaris"]Now, when i hold the buttons down for convergence up, the screen gets blurry and I see pretty much 2 images(ghosting).[/quote] Something I've noticed: the "ghosting" you mentioned is actually present at all times with 3D technology; the glasses are unable to filter out 100% of the opposite-eye light. But the ghosting becomes much, much more noticeable as the amount of depth decreases. Without adjusting the convergence, the gameworld is essentially one giant 16:9 texture to your glasses. [i]Also just a helpful hint: if the shadows look weird, open SkyrimPrefs.ini in My Documents/My Games/Skyrim (not the one in your Steam folder; i think that's the defaults) and set bDeferredShadows to 0. Completely fixes the disorienting shadow issue.[/i]
I am temporarily not using the Helix mod until I actually get 3D depth working properly. Right now, when I enable 3D, it appears that instead of getting the world of Tamriel in 3D, I get 2 flat layers: a UI layer (which appears to sit at neutral depth), and a gameworld layer (which appears to sit behind it, moving closer and farther as I adjust the depth). There is no 3D effect applied to the gameworld at all, as if my Dark Elf is a cyclops.

The "popped" UI tells me that the 3D is working fine in the TV and in the GPU, but that the 3DTV Play software is failing to properly render a second "eye" in the game. Is this the "convergence" issue you were all talking about? I tried adjusting the convergence in the game, but the keys don't do anything.

Syrellaris said:Now, when i hold the buttons down for convergence up, the screen gets blurry and I see pretty much 2 images(ghosting).

Something I've noticed: the "ghosting" you mentioned is actually present at all times with 3D technology; the glasses are unable to filter out 100% of the opposite-eye light. But the ghosting becomes much, much more noticeable as the amount of depth decreases. Without adjusting the convergence, the gameworld is essentially one giant 16:9 texture to your glasses.

Also just a helpful hint: if the shadows look weird, open SkyrimPrefs.ini in My Documents/My Games/Skyrim (not the one in your Steam folder; i think that's the defaults) and set bDeferredShadows to 0. Completely fixes the disorienting shadow issue.

#12
Posted 11/30/2013 04:40 PM   
Convergence: If you see a big flat world at some depth behind the screen your convergence is too low. Press and hold Ctrl-F6 and keep holding it for about a minute or two (seriously) until something happens - and it will eventually. Ghosting: one of the limitations of the technology, and yes it looks worse with high depth. Adjusting contrast and maybe your display color settings ('warm' usually makes it a bit better). But that's just the way it is, unless you get a projector. Helixmod: This fixes shadows, you don't need to change the prefs file. It also has presets in it (at least mine does) which will "jump" convergence straight to a useful value and you could avoid going through the whole 'holding ctrl-F6 for a minute' action.
Convergence: If you see a big flat world at some depth behind the screen your convergence is too low. Press and hold Ctrl-F6 and keep holding it for about a minute or two (seriously) until something happens - and it will eventually.

Ghosting: one of the limitations of the technology, and yes it looks worse with high depth. Adjusting contrast and maybe your display color settings ('warm' usually makes it a bit better). But that's just the way it is, unless you get a projector.

Helixmod: This fixes shadows, you don't need to change the prefs file. It also has presets in it (at least mine does) which will "jump" convergence straight to a useful value and you could avoid going through the whole 'holding ctrl-F6 for a minute' action.

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#13
Posted 11/30/2013 05:00 PM   
When adjusting the depth, a green HUD appears on the screen that looks like the volume control on an old TV. When adjusting the convergence, nothing appears. Is this how it is for everyone else? (I would test right now, but I'm at work. Just trying to get a bunch of info for when I get home.) Is there a way to permanently save a convergence setting? Also, should I interpret convergence as "distance between my character's eyes?" That makes more sense to me. I tried Helix before even messing with the shadow setting, and the only difference I noticed was that it caused the UI to get baked into the gameworld layer, giving me only a single, flat layer, that looked like it was "deeper inside" of the TV. I'll try it again for sure, as so many people swear by it, but I didn't have luck before. Thanks for your help Mike, and I'll be back if I'm still having problems. ------ Oh one more question: is the Steam Overlay always disabled while using 3DVision/3DTV Play software? I can't seem to get it to open.
When adjusting the depth, a green HUD appears on the screen that looks like the volume control on an old TV. When adjusting the convergence, nothing appears. Is this how it is for everyone else? (I would test right now, but I'm at work. Just trying to get a bunch of info for when I get home.) Is there a way to permanently save a convergence setting? Also, should I interpret convergence as "distance between my character's eyes?" That makes more sense to me.

I tried Helix before even messing with the shadow setting, and the only difference I noticed was that it caused the UI to get baked into the gameworld layer, giving me only a single, flat layer, that looked like it was "deeper inside" of the TV. I'll try it again for sure, as so many people swear by it, but I didn't have luck before.

Thanks for your help Mike, and I'll be back if I'm still having problems.

------

Oh one more question: is the Steam Overlay always disabled while using 3DVision/3DTV Play software? I can't seem to get it to open.

#14
Posted 11/30/2013 06:11 PM   
So a few things - there is no green indicator for changing the convergence. This is really crap, but Nvidia have never implemented this for some reason. You just have to hold Ctrl-F6 for about 1-2 mins until it works Convergence is not eye separation - that is what "depth" affects (and is also called 'separation'). Convergence is more complicated but affects the amount of pop-out you get - low convergence pushes all objects far back into the screen towards the far plane (making everything flat), whereas high convergence brings everything forward and can create the 'pop-out' effect. The Nvidia driver allows one convergence value to be saved per game, by pressing Ctrl-F7 (this will also save the current depth setting as well). Helix mod - yes this does push the hud in to the screen, but that is only one small thing that it does overall. I think also presets are provided for different hud depths (you need to read the instructions on the blog). The Helixmod also fixes all water rendering issues, and all shadow issues, possibly a few more things I can't remember. When you get the game setup with a proper value of convergence you will see what I mean.
So a few things - there is no green indicator for changing the convergence. This is really crap, but Nvidia have never implemented this for some reason. You just have to hold Ctrl-F6 for about 1-2 mins until it works

Convergence is not eye separation - that is what "depth" affects (and is also called 'separation'). Convergence is more complicated but affects the amount of pop-out you get - low convergence pushes all objects far back into the screen towards the far plane (making everything flat), whereas high convergence brings everything forward and can create the 'pop-out' effect.

The Nvidia driver allows one convergence value to be saved per game, by pressing Ctrl-F7 (this will also save the current depth setting as well).

Helix mod - yes this does push the hud in to the screen, but that is only one small thing that it does overall. I think also presets are provided for different hud depths (you need to read the instructions on the blog). The Helixmod also fixes all water rendering issues, and all shadow issues, possibly a few more things I can't remember. When you get the game setup with a proper value of convergence you will see what I mean.

Rig: Intel i7-8700K @4.7GHz, 16Gb Ram, SSD, GTX 1080Ti, Win10x64, Asus VG278

#15
Posted 11/30/2013 08:13 PM   
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