Asus VG248QE, VG278HE & HR, BenQ XL270T checkerboard-pattern in 3D-mode (no FullHD per Frame)
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Well, time to add a bit more strange to the mix. I've tested my VG278H with my PS3 in 3d mode, and with Tridef (as I have one of the rare editions of the VG278H that supports side by side over HDMI). Check these out. If you right-click and choose "view", you can see them a little larger. PS3: [img]http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1094464_10151758335040673_197217860_o.jpg[/img] Tridef: [img]http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1077608_10151758332860673_311604372_o.jpg[/img] In the PS3 image, the object at the bottom is a cliff in front of a darker area of rock. Strangely, the shadow of the other eye's image seems to be causing the checkerboarding in this area. But higher up, we can see random stripes of checkerboarding. Those are not ghosting, as there's no high contrast to cause it in that area. In the Tridef image, we see a similar thing. The lettering appears to not be checkerboarded, but the ghosted shadow of the letters to the right seems to be. It's not the same pixels on the monitor, this effect seems to be related to ghosting in a sense. But that doesn't make sense, because 100% contrast removes it for me too (on the test image). And then there's this. This is a screenshot on regular 1080p 3d vision, at 100% contrast. [img]http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/21443_10151758370960673_1284000006_n.jpg[/img] In most of the image (except the dark areas), the checkerboarding is visible. But in the two areas I've circled (and in fact a whole lot more over the space of the entire screen), there is no checkerboarding. Once again, this is not a glitch with this particular area of the monitor. If I move the ingame camera around a bit, this pattern remains relatively consistent.
Well, time to add a bit more strange to the mix. I've tested my VG278H with my PS3 in 3d mode, and with Tridef (as I have one of the rare editions of the VG278H that supports side by side over HDMI).

Check these out. If you right-click and choose "view", you can see them a little larger.

PS3:
Image

Tridef:
Image

In the PS3 image, the object at the bottom is a cliff in front of a darker area of rock. Strangely, the shadow of the other eye's image seems to be causing the checkerboarding in this area. But higher up, we can see random stripes of checkerboarding. Those are not ghosting, as there's no high contrast to cause it in that area.

In the Tridef image, we see a similar thing. The lettering appears to not be checkerboarded, but the ghosted shadow of the letters to the right seems to be.

It's not the same pixels on the monitor, this effect seems to be related to ghosting in a sense. But that doesn't make sense, because 100% contrast removes it for me too (on the test image).


And then there's this.

This is a screenshot on regular 1080p 3d vision, at 100% contrast.

Image

In most of the image (except the dark areas), the checkerboarding is visible. But in the two areas I've circled (and in fact a whole lot more over the space of the entire screen), there is no checkerboarding. Once again, this is not a glitch with this particular area of the monitor. If I move the ingame camera around a bit, this pattern remains relatively consistent.

#76
Posted 07/31/2013 03:38 PM   
@ FlyingRocket Very interested to see what Nvidia has to say about the matter now that it has been elevated to "level 2".
@ FlyingRocket

Very interested to see what Nvidia has to say about the matter now that it has been elevated to "level 2".

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

#77
Posted 08/02/2013 10:27 PM   
Anyone got thoughts on the screens I posted?
Anyone got thoughts on the screens I posted?

#78
Posted 08/03/2013 06:11 AM   
I don't know what to add. I just did some quick test photographing a 3D Blu-ray coming from my PS3. Wanted to do some 1:1 photos to reduce the likelyhood of any moire patterns cropping up. I got a result with checkerboarding in one Bright area but not the other. (Very tiny image of big ben at night). Changing scene and taking a bigger Picture showed that brightness checkerboarding was fairly common in the image but it not like black and white more like fairly Bright grey and White making it less of a problem.
I don't know what to add. I just did some quick test photographing a 3D Blu-ray coming from my PS3.

Wanted to do some 1:1 photos to reduce the likelyhood of any moire patterns cropping up.

I got a result with checkerboarding in one Bright area but not the other. (Very tiny image of big ben at night).

Changing scene and taking a bigger Picture showed that brightness checkerboarding was fairly common in the image but it not like black and white more like fairly Bright grey and White making it less of a problem.

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#79
Posted 08/03/2013 08:39 AM   
I own an Asus VG248QE monitor and I experience a similar problem with it. But instead of a checkerboard pattern, I observe a scanline-like effect. It occurs in the 3D mode, but also to a slight degree whenever I set the monitor refresh rate to 144Hz. Below 120Hz, it is unnoticeable. Though this might be an artifact of the technique involved, I can't believe it is intentional the way it is. I first noticed it in the 3D mode in a game with static menu elements in the top right corner, because the scanlines are not uniformly visible, they're much more pronounced in the upper right quadrant of the screen. If I switch to the windows desktop while in the 3d mode (Alt+Tab or using the nvidia photo application), it appears there, too. I tried to capture it with a camera - which of course never depicts the problem in a natural way. If you zoom in on the right image, you can identify darker and brighter pixels most clearly within the supposed to be black title bar of the window (between the tabs and the min/max/close buttons). I assure you, it looks worse for the human eye. It really looks like a cheap scanline effect on top of my games... Top left: [url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4tvaiwd59ty6mc/2013-08-02%2022.08.13.jpg[/url] Top right: [url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/66gelyy76z7t0rs/2013-08-02%2021.54.33.jpg[/url] I don't know whether this particular defect is related to the checkerboard problem described here. I consider returning my unit. I've found similar reports, e.g. [url]http://www.overclock.net/t/1409719/new-vg248qe-has-scanlines[/url], [url]http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2329394[/url]. While these report that the second monitor they got in exchange did not have the issue, I've read other cases where it was consistent. All in all, this sounds more like a major problem in build quality than some inevitable side-effect.
I own an Asus VG248QE monitor and I experience a similar problem with it. But instead of a checkerboard pattern, I observe a scanline-like effect. It occurs in the 3D mode, but also to a slight degree whenever I set the monitor refresh rate to 144Hz. Below 120Hz, it is unnoticeable. Though this might be an artifact of the technique involved, I can't believe it is intentional the way it is. I first noticed it in the 3D mode in a game with static menu elements in the top right corner, because the scanlines are not uniformly visible, they're much more pronounced in the upper right quadrant of the screen. If I switch to the windows desktop while in the 3d mode (Alt+Tab or using the nvidia photo application), it appears there, too.
I tried to capture it with a camera - which of course never depicts the problem in a natural way. If you zoom in on the right image, you can identify darker and brighter pixels most clearly within the supposed to be black title bar of the window (between the tabs and the min/max/close buttons). I assure you, it looks worse for the human eye. It really looks like a cheap scanline effect on top of my games...

Top left: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4tvaiwd59ty6mc/2013-08-02%2022.08.13.jpg
Top right: https://www.dropbox.com/s/66gelyy76z7t0rs/2013-08-02%2021.54.33.jpg

I don't know whether this particular defect is related to the checkerboard problem described here. I consider returning my unit. I've found similar reports, e.g. http://www.overclock.net/t/1409719/new-vg248qe-has-scanlines, http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2329394.
While these report that the second monitor they got in exchange did not have the issue, I've read other cases where it was consistent.

All in all, this sounds more like a major problem in build quality than some inevitable side-effect.

#80
Posted 08/03/2013 02:04 PM   
I came across a website where they refer to this as LCD inversion artifacts. If this is correct, it would seem to indicate a hardware rather than software issue. Just another theory to add to the pile. 3rd post. http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/25035-120hz-battle-asus-vg248qe-vs-benq-xl2420t/
I came across a website where they refer to this as LCD inversion artifacts. If this is correct, it would seem to indicate a hardware rather than software issue. Just another theory to add to the pile. 3rd post.


http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/25035-120hz-battle-asus-vg248qe-vs-benq-xl2420t/

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

#81
Posted 08/05/2013 07:35 AM   
I found an article that discusses LCD Inversion, it says that polarity is reversed to the liquid crystals with each frame to prevent polarisation and to extend life. It shows that this can be achieved via Row inversion (lower power)used eg. on laptops or via Line-paired RGB sub-pixel dot-inversion pattern. http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html
I found an article that discusses LCD Inversion, it says that polarity is reversed to the liquid crystals with each frame to prevent polarisation and to extend life.

It shows that this can be achieved via Row inversion (lower power)used eg. on laptops or via Line-paired RGB sub-pixel dot-inversion pattern.

http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html

#82
Posted 08/05/2013 08:04 AM   
[b]@Pirateguybrush: [/b]Your pattern looks like the pattern I get while ghosting. The checkerboard-interlacing seems to emphasize the ghosting and hence result in odd sub-pixel behaviour. [b]@SanityIsOverrated: [/b]Your problem could also be caused by the same circumstances that cause the here discussed checkerboard-pattern. However, I cannot ensure that it is the same cause. Nevertheless, thanks for joining the discussion :). In the meantime I ordered two further monitors the [b]BenQ XL270T[/b] and the [b]Asus VG278H[u]R[/u][/b]. Both monitor show the exact same pattern I already could percieve with the Asus VG278HE. Furthermore I was able to test all three monitors (the BenQ and the two Asus VG278HE/ VG278HR) on my laptop with a Quadro FX880M ... guess what ... same problem. Hence the problem is not just restricted to one monitor or my current graphiccards. It exists with different cards and different monitors as well. In fact, we already discovered that even more monitors than the one I could test are affected by the problem. [b][u]Due to these findings, I am currently considering to involve the press.[/u][/b] To be specific I am considering to write a letter to Gamestar (Germany's biggest computer game magazine) or PC Games Hardware (Germany's biggest magazine for computer hardware). Maybe they pick the topic up and are able to further investigate our discovery. I am also considering to write a letter to an English magazine. However, I do not know which magazine/ website/ press I would contact best. If you have an idea or even like to join me, feel free to place your suggest. @CeeJayII: Until know I haven't heard anything from the Level 2 support guys. Hence, I re-contacted a Level 1 support in order to speed things up. I hope to hear from them soon.
@Pirateguybrush: Your pattern looks like the pattern I get while ghosting. The checkerboard-interlacing seems to emphasize the ghosting and hence result in odd sub-pixel behaviour.

@SanityIsOverrated: Your problem could also be caused by the same circumstances that cause the here discussed checkerboard-pattern. However, I cannot ensure that it is the same cause. Nevertheless, thanks for joining the discussion :).

In the meantime I ordered two further monitors the BenQ XL270T and the Asus VG278HR. Both monitor show the exact same pattern I already could percieve with the Asus VG278HE. Furthermore I was able to test all three monitors (the BenQ and the two Asus VG278HE/ VG278HR) on my laptop with a Quadro FX880M ... guess what ... same problem. Hence the problem is not just restricted to one monitor or my current graphiccards. It exists with different cards and different monitors as well. In fact, we already discovered that even more monitors than the one I could test are affected by the problem.

Due to these findings, I am currently considering to involve the press. To be specific I am considering to write a letter to Gamestar (Germany's biggest computer game magazine) or PC Games Hardware (Germany's biggest magazine for computer hardware). Maybe they pick the topic up and are able to further investigate our discovery.

I am also considering to write a letter to an English magazine. However, I do not know which magazine/ website/ press I would contact best. If you have an idea or even like to join me, feel free to place your suggest.

@CeeJayII: Until know I haven't heard anything from the Level 2 support guys. Hence, I re-contacted a Level 1 support in order to speed things up. I hope to hear from them soon.

Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Processor: Intel i7-4770k
Memory: 16GB with 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 770 Twin Frozr
Mainboard: Asus Z87-Plus

#83
Posted 08/05/2013 01:00 PM   
Hello guys, same problem with my ASUS VG278HE I can also see the checkerboard pattern in 2D-mode when refresh-rate is above 60Hz (i.e. 120Hz): If I move the mousecursor rapidly in front of a dark background, each frame of the mouse shows the checkerboard pattern (it should be completely white). [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/clbo.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img687/3938/clbo.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL] I contacted ASUS Support yesterday and I am waiting for a reply....
Hello guys,

same problem with my ASUS VG278HE
I can also see the checkerboard pattern in 2D-mode when refresh-rate is above 60Hz (i.e. 120Hz):
If I move the mousecursor rapidly in front of a dark background, each frame of the mouse shows the checkerboard pattern (it should be completely white).

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I contacted ASUS Support yesterday and I am waiting for a reply....

#84
Posted 08/05/2013 02:09 PM   
@FlyingRocket: Regarding the magazines, I'd also recommend c't (short for Computer und Technik). It's one of the better general pc magazines, targeted at a more professional audience. They have a column about customer service disasters in every issue. While I guess this is not a candidate for the printed column, as they usually pick those cases where all other means of communication have failed, they might still be willing to help/investigate. My exchange unit has already been dispatched by amazon. I really hope this was a single quirk. I'm not so sure anymore whether our problems are related. I'm still curious, though. I've found out that my pattern is not related to the 3D mode at all. It is due to the LightBoost technique, which by defaults only activates itself in the 3D mode. There are tools to active it in general: http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/ If tried this, and now it's a permanent issue as long as Lightboost is activated. Excuse my ignorance if this has been said in this thread before: Can you reproduce this behavior with your monitor? I really don't want to force anyone to install this tool. It does install additional refresh rates and what-not into the system, so be careful. But maybe someone has already tried. Also, I can not reproduce the checkerboard pattern with the mouse pointer like crizcrab. See [url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/awiv2yy8buhzbk8/Foto.JPG[/url] So, this also means the checkerboard pattern is not related to 3D vision at all, but to Lightboost, and there are implementation that don't suffer from this pattern, like the VG248QE. On the other hand, it has its own quirks. -.-
@FlyingRocket: Regarding the magazines, I'd also recommend c't (short for Computer und Technik). It's one of the better general pc magazines, targeted at a more professional audience. They have a column about customer service disasters in every issue. While I guess this is not a candidate for the printed column, as they usually pick those cases where all other means of communication have failed, they might still be willing to help/investigate.

My exchange unit has already been dispatched by amazon. I really hope this was a single quirk.
I'm not so sure anymore whether our problems are related. I'm still curious, though. I've found out that my pattern is not related to the 3D mode at all. It is due to the LightBoost technique, which by defaults only activates itself in the 3D mode. There are tools to active it in general: http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/

If tried this, and now it's a permanent issue as long as Lightboost is activated.
Excuse my ignorance if this has been said in this thread before: Can you reproduce this behavior with your monitor? I really don't want to force anyone to install this tool. It does install additional refresh rates and what-not into the system, so be careful. But maybe someone has already tried.

Also, I can not reproduce the checkerboard pattern with the mouse pointer like crizcrab. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/awiv2yy8buhzbk8/Foto.JPG

So, this also means the checkerboard pattern is not related to 3D vision at all, but to Lightboost, and there are implementation that don't suffer from this pattern, like the VG248QE. On the other hand, it has its own quirks. -.-

#85
Posted 08/05/2013 08:20 PM   
There is nothing wrong in the pic by crizcrab, all of the pixels are showing up. It's simply windows resolving an edge. (spatial resolution) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution It's why windows has Cleartype http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleartype
There is nothing wrong in the pic by crizcrab, all of the pixels are showing up.

It's simply windows resolving an edge. (spatial resolution)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution

It's why windows has Cleartype

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleartype

#86
Posted 08/05/2013 08:29 PM   
To convince D-Man11: [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/ub87.jpg/][IMG]http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8009/ub87.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL] Now you can see the difference?
To convince D-Man11:

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Now you can see the difference?

#87
Posted 08/06/2013 04:48 PM   
Here's the thing that strikes me as strange. Change your resolution to 540p, or even 720p. You immediately notice a huge step down in image quality (in 2d or 3d). Now change it back to 1080p, and look at one eye's image in a 3d game. It doesn't display nearly the same kind of drop in quality. So I don't think we're really getting an effective halving of image quality here.
Here's the thing that strikes me as strange. Change your resolution to 540p, or even 720p. You immediately notice a huge step down in image quality (in 2d or 3d). Now change it back to 1080p, and look at one eye's image in a 3d game. It doesn't display nearly the same kind of drop in quality. So I don't think we're really getting an effective halving of image quality here.

#88
Posted 08/06/2013 04:54 PM   
Bad news everyone! The second monitor I got as a replacement has got the same problem (the scanline pattern). Looks like ASUS is having quite some problems with their 3D monitors. Ironically, today I was able to talk to a friend with the same monitor (VG248QE) and he has neither one of the problems. I'll do some more tests with this one, but I wasn't in the mood for that anymore. P.S. we are not alone: http://justgaming.info/asus-vg248qe-24-inch-screen-led-lit-monitor/ The first comment mentions the checkerboard / pixel inversion pattern of the VG278HE.
Bad news everyone!
The second monitor I got as a replacement has got the same problem (the scanline pattern). Looks like ASUS is having quite some problems with their 3D monitors.
Ironically, today I was able to talk to a friend with the same monitor (VG248QE) and he has neither one of the problems.
I'll do some more tests with this one, but I wasn't in the mood for that anymore.

P.S. we are not alone: http://justgaming.info/asus-vg248qe-24-inch-screen-led-lit-monitor/
The first comment mentions the checkerboard / pixel inversion pattern of the VG278HE.

#89
Posted 08/06/2013 11:12 PM   
[quote="SanityIsOverrated"]Bad news everyone! The second monitor I got as a replacement has got the same problem (the scanline pattern). Looks like ASUS is having quite some problems with their 3D monitors. Ironically, today I was able to talk to a friend with the same monitor (VG248QE) and he has neither one of the problems. I'll do some more tests with this one, but I wasn't in the mood for that anymore. P.S. we are not alone: http://justgaming.info/asus-vg248qe-24-inch-screen-led-lit-monitor/ The first comment mentions the checkerboard / pixel inversion pattern of the VG278HE.[/quote] I can confirm, from my experience, that the checkerboard problem does exist on the VG248QE as well. It only occurs when viewing 3D content but is quite noticeable. When running in 2D at 144hz or 120hz with lightboost, there is no issue. I went into the service menu to see if adjusting things from there would make a difference but no dice so far.
SanityIsOverrated said:Bad news everyone!
The second monitor I got as a replacement has got the same problem (the scanline pattern). Looks like ASUS is having quite some problems with their 3D monitors.
Ironically, today I was able to talk to a friend with the same monitor (VG248QE) and he has neither one of the problems.
I'll do some more tests with this one, but I wasn't in the mood for that anymore.

P.S. we are not alone: http://justgaming.info/asus-vg248qe-24-inch-screen-led-lit-monitor/

The first comment mentions the checkerboard / pixel inversion pattern of the VG278HE.


I can confirm, from my experience, that the checkerboard problem does exist on the VG248QE as well. It only occurs when viewing 3D content but is quite noticeable. When running in 2D at 144hz or 120hz with lightboost, there is no issue. I went into the service menu to see if adjusting things from there would make a difference but no dice so far.

Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z170X, i7-6700K @ 4.4ghz, Asus GTX 2080 ti Strix OC , 16gb DDR4 Corsair Vengence 2666, LG 60uh8500 and 49ub8500 passive 4K 3D EDID, Dell S2716DG.

#90
Posted 08/07/2013 07:42 AM   
  6 / 12    
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