Is there a way to output Side by Side?
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I'm trying to find some 3D drivers that can output SBS video (Side by Side). The main reason to want this, from what I can see is for 3DTV compatibility - I tried it the nVidia way, and it did not look very nice at all... I think anyone would rather have 980x1080 60fps than 1920x1080 24fps... But that's not actually why I want it, I was just testing for a little coding project I want to try. I need Side by Side renders of existing pc games - let's say Half Life 2, preferably just in a window rather than taking over the entire display. Is there any way to achieve this through nVidia 3D? The only discussion I can find on this is from 3 or 4 years ago, so I'm hoping something has changed since then. Otherwise the other option I'm finding is to hack something together from an open source Oculus Rift compatibility layer, but that sounds really messy. iZ3D is discontinued but looked promising, except I can't make anything run through it at all other than their tests. The 30 day trial thing is pretty annoying too...
I'm trying to find some 3D drivers that can output SBS video (Side by Side). The main reason to want this, from what I can see is for 3DTV compatibility - I tried it the nVidia way, and it did not look very nice at all... I think anyone would rather have 980x1080 60fps than 1920x1080 24fps...

But that's not actually why I want it, I was just testing for a little coding project I want to try. I need Side by Side renders of existing pc games - let's say Half Life 2, preferably just in a window rather than taking over the entire display. Is there any way to achieve this through nVidia 3D?

The only discussion I can find on this is from 3 or 4 years ago, so I'm hoping something has changed since then. Otherwise the other option I'm finding is to hack something together from an open source Oculus Rift compatibility layer, but that sounds really messy. iZ3D is discontinued but looked promising, except I can't make anything run through it at all other than their tests. The 30 day trial thing is pretty annoying too...

#1
Posted 09/10/2015 11:38 AM   
Not through Nvidia, try Tri def
Not through Nvidia, try Tri def

#2
Posted 09/10/2015 11:40 AM   
On helixmod.blogspot.com there are SBS pictures of all the fixed games, which as far as I can tell are meant to be used with nvidia. Are they only side by side because they're screenshots? I'd really like to avoid paid solutions if I can since if my project works, the next step is to share it.
On helixmod.blogspot.com there are SBS pictures of all the fixed games, which as far as I can tell are meant to be used with nvidia. Are they only side by side because they're screenshots? I'd really like to avoid paid solutions if I can since if my project works, the next step is to share it.

#3
Posted 09/10/2015 12:09 PM   
James Cameron's Avatar: The Game has native stereoscopic support with a SBS output option. The problem with SBS is that it relies on an up-scaling algorithm that is "post process"and also doesn't look so great when used for gaming. Although for some the refresh rate and additional lag might be an acceptable trade off vs PQ. BTW what display are you using?
James Cameron's Avatar: The Game has native stereoscopic support with a SBS output option.

The problem with SBS is that it relies on an up-scaling algorithm that is "post process"and also doesn't look so great when used for gaming.

Although for some the refresh rate and additional lag might be an acceptable trade off vs PQ.

BTW what display are you using?

#4
Posted 09/10/2015 12:26 PM   
@Poke I answered your question on the blog as well, but I guess there is one other thing that might not be clear - if the embedded screenshots from 3dvisionlive.com (i.e. most of the screenshots on the blog) appear to be side by side, it indicates that the 3D Vision browser plugin is either not installed, or not working. If the plugin is installed the only viewing options are active 3D, anaglyph or mono left/right.
@Poke I answered your question on the blog as well, but I guess there is one other thing that might not be clear - if the embedded screenshots from 3dvisionlive.com (i.e. most of the screenshots on the blog) appear to be side by side, it indicates that the 3D Vision browser plugin is either not installed, or not working. If the plugin is installed the only viewing options are active 3D, anaglyph or mono left/right.

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
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#5
Posted 09/10/2015 01:00 PM   
My 3D TV is a Samsung, I'm not really sure which. I could get the 3D to work for the nvidia test things but not for any actual games - either supported (Borderlands, Half Life 2) or "fixed" (Life is Strange). I gave up trying because the 24fps desktop alone was making my eyes hurt. Looking into it now, I think it's because I didn't buy/free trial that 3DTV thingy... but I'm having no trouble getting red/blue 3d (yuck) without that for any game at all. What I would like to be doing with my little coding project is stream the video to a 3DS. Using various... methods it's possible to compile your own code to run on the 3DS, which natively takes an 800x240 input for 3d (to make two 400x240 screens). Since it's being streamed there's no "actual" display, which is why I'd like the 3d to be limited to a windowed game. There'll obviously be delay on this, though the tiny resolution should help. I've used various remote desktop-like screen streamers in the past with ~0.5 seconds delay for a 1080p desktop so I feel like it miiiiiight be possible to get this playable? Either way it'd be cool to play around with. Right now I'm fiddling with Vireio (for Oculus Rift), which has SBS support for a very limited number of games. Even with those limitations, it doesn't seem to work - I'm looking at side by side borderlands with only menus, nothing 3d being rendered at all. Anyway, it's definitely possible to render red/blue 3d with just the base nvidia drivers, no extras attached. Since this does mean 2 separate viewpoints are being rendered, then layered, it stands to reason that these separate viewpoints could be seen separately... somehow? Is this doable?
My 3D TV is a Samsung, I'm not really sure which. I could get the 3D to work for the nvidia test things but not for any actual games - either supported (Borderlands, Half Life 2) or "fixed" (Life is Strange). I gave up trying because the 24fps desktop alone was making my eyes hurt. Looking into it now, I think it's because I didn't buy/free trial that 3DTV thingy... but I'm having no trouble getting red/blue 3d (yuck) without that for any game at all.


What I would like to be doing with my little coding project is stream the video to a 3DS. Using various... methods it's possible to compile your own code to run on the 3DS, which natively takes an 800x240 input for 3d (to make two 400x240 screens). Since it's being streamed there's no "actual" display, which is why I'd like the 3d to be limited to a windowed game.
There'll obviously be delay on this, though the tiny resolution should help. I've used various remote desktop-like screen streamers in the past with ~0.5 seconds delay for a 1080p desktop so I feel like it miiiiiight be possible to get this playable? Either way it'd be cool to play around with.


Right now I'm fiddling with Vireio (for Oculus Rift), which has SBS support for a very limited number of games. Even with those limitations, it doesn't seem to work - I'm looking at side by side borderlands with only menus, nothing 3d being rendered at all.




Anyway, it's definitely possible to render red/blue 3d with just the base nvidia drivers, no extras attached. Since this does mean 2 separate viewpoints are being rendered, then layered, it stands to reason that these separate viewpoints could be seen separately... somehow? Is this doable?

#6
Posted 09/10/2015 01:08 PM   
@DarkStarSword Hmm, that makes sense. The thing is that I WANT the side by side. I don't have a 3d display for my computer (except when I drag it to the other room and hook it up to the tv, for disappointing results). I'm trying to set things up so I can run games in side by side 3d. I guess the screenshots aren't using that then?
@DarkStarSword Hmm, that makes sense. The thing is that I WANT the side by side. I don't have a 3d display for my computer (except when I drag it to the other room and hook it up to the tv, for disappointing results). I'm trying to set things up so I can run games in side by side 3d. I guess the screenshots aren't using that then?

#7
Posted 09/10/2015 01:12 PM   
Nvidia has been having activation problems with their servers and are not currently selling 3DTV Play. As a temporary solution, they have extended the trial from 14 days to 180 days. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-14day-trial.html Also since you have a Samsung 3D HDTV, there's a possibility that it might accept a Checkerboard input. Refer to your owner's manual and look for what they call "pixel mode" (checkerboard). This would allow 1920x1080i@60. EDIT: why are you so set on SBS? Nvidia supports framepacked TnB The screenshots are a JPS format, the two frames/images are placed "along" side of each other and "do not denote a format"
Nvidia has been having activation problems with their servers and are not currently selling 3DTV Play. As a temporary solution, they have extended the trial from 14 days to 180 days.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-14day-trial.html

Also since you have a Samsung 3D HDTV, there's a possibility that it might accept a Checkerboard input. Refer to your owner's manual and look for what they call "pixel mode" (checkerboard). This would allow 1920x1080i@60.

EDIT: why are you so set on SBS? Nvidia supports framepacked TnB

The screenshots are a JPS format, the two frames/images are placed "along" side of each other and "do not denote a format"

#8
Posted 09/10/2015 01:29 PM   
Checkerboard is an option, though any interlaced settings I looked at had their own problems - mostly blurriness. So 3D game output to a TV is only possible with 3DTV Play, even though red/blue 3D is available without that? That's a shame. That said, I'd better go grab that 180 day trial before they go back to 14, just in case haha.
Checkerboard is an option, though any interlaced settings I looked at had their own problems - mostly blurriness.

So 3D game output to a TV is only possible with 3DTV Play, even though red/blue 3D is available without that? That's a shame. That said, I'd better go grab that 180 day trial before they go back to 14, just in case haha.

#9
Posted 09/10/2015 01:36 PM   
Nvidia's stereoscopic drivers are a middleware, if you are using their API, it needs unlocked with the exception of anaglyph/3D Vision "Discover" mode. Native stereoscopic support uses Microsoft's Windows or OpenGl's SDK and does not require Nvidia's middleware provided you are not using a display requiring drivers for use with Nvidia's USB emitter and glasses.
Nvidia's stereoscopic drivers are a middleware, if you are using their API, it needs unlocked with the exception of anaglyph/3D Vision "Discover" mode.

Native stereoscopic support uses Microsoft's Windows or OpenGl's SDK and does not require Nvidia's middleware provided you are not using a display requiring drivers for use with Nvidia's USB emitter and glasses.

#10
Posted 09/10/2015 01:40 PM   
What's TnB? I googled it but I can't find anything about it. Is it Top n' Bottom, maybe? SBS is the only format I know where the 2 frames are completely separate, and can be displayed side by side on a non-3d display. Potentially this could be done in a window, without having to dominate the entire display. In other words, I guess I'm really looking for the direct output rather than something ready to go to a 3D TV or screen. SBS also happens to be what I need to send to the 3ds, but if there's a different way to get the 2 separate perspectives I can make them SBS myself if needed. Native stereoscopic is something I could look into maybe... apparently it's introduced in Windows 8 so I guess I need to hope my Win 10 Tech Preview VM will perform well enough.
What's TnB? I googled it but I can't find anything about it. Is it Top n' Bottom, maybe?

SBS is the only format I know where the 2 frames are completely separate, and can be displayed side by side on a non-3d display. Potentially this could be done in a window, without having to dominate the entire display. In other words, I guess I'm really looking for the direct output rather than something ready to go to a 3D TV or screen. SBS also happens to be what I need to send to the 3ds, but if there's a different way to get the 2 separate perspectives I can make them SBS myself if needed.

Native stereoscopic is something I could look into maybe... apparently it's introduced in Windows 8 so I guess I need to hope my Win 10 Tech Preview VM will perform well enough.

#11
Posted 09/10/2015 01:54 PM   
Sorry if I'm being confusing, I don't have or use a 3D Display so I'm not up to date with all the terminology. All I know is that I need to end up with 800x240 SBS and as far as I can tell SBS is the simplest format to process and edit in a non-3d environment - other formats seem to not have a 2d representation as far as I can see? (Other than just displaying one side and ignoring the other). Is there some documentation/API/etc. that I should be reading to clear this up?
Sorry if I'm being confusing, I don't have or use a 3D Display so I'm not up to date with all the terminology. All I know is that I need to end up with 800x240 SBS and as far as I can tell SBS is the simplest format to process and edit in a non-3d environment - other formats seem to not have a 2d representation as far as I can see? (Other than just displaying one side and ignoring the other).

Is there some documentation/API/etc. that I should be reading to clear this up?

#12
Posted 09/10/2015 02:00 PM   
TnB = Top and Bottom Sorry, I helped you with what little I know. I simply use Nvidia's 3D Vision/3DTV Play and TriDef for gaming. You can read Nvidia's API/SDK aka GameWorks https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks-core-overview http://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/content/gameworkslibrary/coresdk/nvapi/index.html
TnB = Top and Bottom

Sorry, I helped you with what little I know. I simply use Nvidia's 3D Vision/3DTV Play and TriDef for gaming.

You can read Nvidia's API/SDK aka GameWorks

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks-core-overview

http://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/content/gameworkslibrary/coresdk/nvapi/index.html

#13
Posted 09/10/2015 02:16 PM   
I'm not sure if it helps you, but if you just need SBS renders (and not live gameplay) you might be able to use Shadowplay to record a game in stereo, which records a video in side-by-side that you could play back later, like this one: https://youtu.be/d8Is_nzhFcM UE4 has a side-by-side output that can be enabled with the -emulatestereo command line parameter. It has some problems (like the mouse cursor won't line up with menu items) and it seems to be aimed at emulating a VR style stereo projection, but it might be enough for your needs. I gave it a try in ARK: Survival Evolved and it seemed to work fine. Anyone remember the old game Descent? It also had a command line parameter you could pass it to enable side-by-side stereo, and playing that game cross-eyed would have been my first stereo gaming experience :)
I'm not sure if it helps you, but if you just need SBS renders (and not live gameplay) you might be able to use Shadowplay to record a game in stereo, which records a video in side-by-side that you could play back later, like this one:

https://youtu.be/d8Is_nzhFcM

UE4 has a side-by-side output that can be enabled with the -emulatestereo command line parameter. It has some problems (like the mouse cursor won't line up with menu items) and it seems to be aimed at emulating a VR style stereo projection, but it might be enough for your needs. I gave it a try in ARK: Survival Evolved and it seemed to work fine.


Anyone remember the old game Descent? It also had a command line parameter you could pass it to enable side-by-side stereo, and playing that game cross-eyed would have been my first stereo gaming experience :)

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#14
Posted 09/10/2015 04:29 PM   
Check this video in an hour or so once it finishes uploading to see what ARK looks like in side-by-side mode: https://youtu.be/AuAsYnVAepY
Check this video in an hour or so once it finishes uploading to see what ARK looks like in side-by-side mode:

https://youtu.be/AuAsYnVAepY

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#15
Posted 09/10/2015 04:44 PM   
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