List of Compatible True 120hz LCD Is there an LCD that is bigger than 22 inches thats true 120hz?
2 / 2
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='502194' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:59 PM']However I can tell you as a company, we fundamentally believe in stereoscopic 3D tecnology, we always have, we have just been working to make it better. For a lot of users what had been out in the market for 10 years has been good enough. But we want to really make it approachable to all users.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:[/quote]
I'd be more confident in Nvidia's solution once you start working formally with MTBS- after all your company is pro-3d and you've mentioned you want to cooperate with other organizations to promote 3d. Formal involvement with them would be nice and ease the fears of some of the "scared" gamers that were disenchanted during the great 3d driver support withdraw of 06. I've read your interviews and posts on MTBS. Let's see some action. Time for 3D cooperation is now!
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='502194' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:59 PM']However I can tell you as a company, we fundamentally believe in stereoscopic 3D tecnology, we always have, we have just been working to make it better. For a lot of users what had been out in the market for 10 years has been good enough. But we want to really make it approachable to all users.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:
I'd be more confident in Nvidia's solution once you start working formally with MTBS- after all your company is pro-3d and you've mentioned you want to cooperate with other organizations to promote 3d. Formal involvement with them would be nice and ease the fears of some of the "scared" gamers that were disenchanted during the great 3d driver support withdraw of 06. I've read your interviews and posts on MTBS. Let's see some action. Time for 3D cooperation is now!
[quote name='Edo1946' post='502521' date='Feb 7 2009, 09:59 AM']Funny you mention Burnout paradise ultimate Andrew. I just downloaded the demo and it wont work for me in s3d.. i can get no convergence even after turning off blur and all effects. Is that a profile problem not recognizing the exe name or is the demo different from the full copy?
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?[/quote]
Burnout works but it's a little weird. You need to turn off AA or set graphics to medium for the 3d effect to work.
The real problem is the performance of the game is terrible. I have a gtx 260 with a 3ghz core 2 duo and a large portion of the game is running at 30fps when I have 3d on. There must be something wrong with the game optimization or settings b/c no way should a console game be that tough on my computer.
[quote name='Edo1946' post='502521' date='Feb 7 2009, 09:59 AM']Funny you mention Burnout paradise ultimate Andrew. I just downloaded the demo and it wont work for me in s3d.. i can get no convergence even after turning off blur and all effects. Is that a profile problem not recognizing the exe name or is the demo different from the full copy?
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?
Burnout works but it's a little weird. You need to turn off AA or set graphics to medium for the 3d effect to work.
The real problem is the performance of the game is terrible. I have a gtx 260 with a 3ghz core 2 duo and a large portion of the game is running at 30fps when I have 3d on. There must be something wrong with the game optimization or settings b/c no way should a console game be that tough on my computer.
I certainly apprecaite your point of view and I may ever convince you otherwise.
However I can tell you as a company, we fundamentally believe in stereoscopic 3D tecnology, we always have, we have just been working to make it better. For a lot of users what had been out in the market for 10 years has been good enough. But we want to really make it approachable to all users.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:
[list]
[*]Jen-hsun Huang, [url="http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10060"]Our CEO on Charlie Rose last night[/url]. If you skip to about the 28 mins and 45 secs you will see Jen-hsun showing 3D Vision glasses, because he believes in the product and the technology.
[*] [url="http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_burnoutparadise_home.html"]Burnout Paradise [/url]just launched. We've been working with the developer to ensure it looks great in stereo. we are going to have a 3D game trailer online next week so look for it.
[*] Our [url="http://www.nvidia.com/content/graphicsplus/us/index.html"]entire Graphics Plus initiative [/url]includes GeForce 3D Vision. This is a web, print, and all media marketing effort, so we are dedicated marketing to promote it.
[/list]
You may want to also go read the [url="http://www.legitreviews.com/article/889/1/"]Legit Review [/url]article that just came out.[/quote]
If this is true then I am impressed at the lengths that you went to fail so spectacularly at your goal. Well, failure is acceptable but hurtful arrogance coupled with failure gets no sympathy from me.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.
I certainly apprecaite your point of view and I may ever convince you otherwise.
However I can tell you as a company, we fundamentally believe in stereoscopic 3D tecnology, we always have, we have just been working to make it better. For a lot of users what had been out in the market for 10 years has been good enough. But we want to really make it approachable to all users.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:
Jen-hsun Huang, Our CEO on Charlie Rose last night. If you skip to about the 28 mins and 45 secs you will see Jen-hsun showing 3D Vision glasses, because he believes in the product and the technology.
Burnout Paradise just launched. We've been working with the developer to ensure it looks great in stereo. we are going to have a 3D game trailer online next week so look for it.
Our entire Graphics Plus initiative includes GeForce 3D Vision. This is a web, print, and all media marketing effort, so we are dedicated marketing to promote it.
You may want to also go read the Legit Review article that just came out.
If this is true then I am impressed at the lengths that you went to fail so spectacularly at your goal. Well, failure is acceptable but hurtful arrogance coupled with failure gets no sympathy from me.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.
[quote name='genetic' post='503044' date='Feb 8 2009, 05:55 PM']If this is true then I am impressed at the lengths that you went to fail so spectacularly at your goal. Well, failure is acceptable but hurtful arrogance coupled with failure gets no sympathy from me.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.[/quote]
Shrug ... say what you will, but what they have seems to work better than any other gaming solution on the market. That counts for a lot.
[quote name='genetic' post='503044' date='Feb 8 2009, 05:55 PM']If this is true then I am impressed at the lengths that you went to fail so spectacularly at your goal. Well, failure is acceptable but hurtful arrogance coupled with failure gets no sympathy from me.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.
Shrug ... say what you will, but what they have seems to work better than any other gaming solution on the market. That counts for a lot.
[quote name='rkuo' post='503072' date='Feb 9 2009, 12:27 PM']Shrug ... say what you will, but what they have seems to work better than any other gaming solution on the market. That counts for a lot.[/quote]
I have no doubt that the drivers work very well. It is a question of driver support.
There is a real chance that whatever monitor you buy may simply not have driver support in the near future.
Whatever you are using to view 3D, Nvidia can and will cut support for it to turn a profit.
Just search this forum for any post in 2007 and 2008 and you will have all of the proof you need.
[quote name='rkuo' post='503072' date='Feb 9 2009, 12:27 PM']Shrug ... say what you will, but what they have seems to work better than any other gaming solution on the market. That counts for a lot.
I have no doubt that the drivers work very well. It is a question of driver support.
There is a real chance that whatever monitor you buy may simply not have driver support in the near future.
Whatever you are using to view 3D, Nvidia can and will cut support for it to turn a profit.
Just search this forum for any post in 2007 and 2008 and you will have all of the proof you need.
Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
[quote name='Edo1946' post='502521' date='Feb 7 2009, 11:59 AM']Funny you mention Burnout paradise ultimate Andrew. I just downloaded the demo and it wont work for me in s3d.. i can get no convergence even after turning off blur and all effects. Is that a profile problem not recognizing the exe name or is the demo different from the full copy?
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?[/quote]
Hi
Terrific question about Burnout Paradise Trial. We didnt realize that the Trial had a different EXE than the shipping game. We have a driver update this week that adds support for the Trial. It will be released soon!
Regarding games that we don't recognize in our driver with profiles, right now our strategy is to keep it simple and have games we have tested and know how to enable a great experience for you, our users. Eventually we will probably make this user configurable. Perhaps the way you can help us is call attention to games you want profiled, and we will add them as we go.
And yes, all new profiles are updated with a new driver update.
[quote name='Edo1946' post='502521' date='Feb 7 2009, 11:59 AM']Funny you mention Burnout paradise ultimate Andrew. I just downloaded the demo and it wont work for me in s3d.. i can get no convergence even after turning off blur and all effects. Is that a profile problem not recognizing the exe name or is the demo different from the full copy?
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?
Hi
Terrific question about Burnout Paradise Trial. We didnt realize that the Trial had a different EXE than the shipping game. We have a driver update this week that adds support for the Trial. It will be released soon!
Regarding games that we don't recognize in our driver with profiles, right now our strategy is to keep it simple and have games we have tested and know how to enable a great experience for you, our users. Eventually we will probably make this user configurable. Perhaps the way you can help us is call attention to games you want profiled, and we will add them as we go.
And yes, all new profiles are updated with a new driver update.
[quote name='b4thman' post='503173' date='Feb 9 2009, 03:57 AM']Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.[/quote]
Hi
Good comments and I hope I can convince you I will do all things you mentioned. Please keep active in these forums as we want to help show you guys we are committed to delivering a great solution for you.
[quote name='b4thman' post='503173' date='Feb 9 2009, 03:57 AM']Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
Hi
Good comments and I hope I can convince you I will do all things you mentioned. Please keep active in these forums as we want to help show you guys we are committed to delivering a great solution for you.
I dont think there is such a thing as "no exceptions" guarantees in the real world of profit and loss businesses. Check your recent stock market statement and list of banks and other businesses that have gone under lately. Nvidia and the others like them have to be able to generate a profit on their investments. If they do they stick around. if they dont they go away. Certainly an expectation of reliable support could help them make a return or their investment but who knows? maybe Intel will clean their clock in a few years and we will all be out in the cold again. Technology buying will always be somewhat of a gamble.. anyone want to buy some old 8 tracks or my HD DVD player? I got burned just like many others in the s3d switcheroo the past years but I am hoping that Nvidia makes enough off of this rebirth to keep s3d viable into the future.
[quote name='b4thman' post='503173' date='Feb 9 2009, 04:57 AM']Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.[/quote]
I dont think there is such a thing as "no exceptions" guarantees in the real world of profit and loss businesses. Check your recent stock market statement and list of banks and other businesses that have gone under lately. Nvidia and the others like them have to be able to generate a profit on their investments. If they do they stick around. if they dont they go away. Certainly an expectation of reliable support could help them make a return or their investment but who knows? maybe Intel will clean their clock in a few years and we will all be out in the cold again. Technology buying will always be somewhat of a gamble.. anyone want to buy some old 8 tracks or my HD DVD player? I got burned just like many others in the s3d switcheroo the past years but I am hoping that Nvidia makes enough off of this rebirth to keep s3d viable into the future.
[quote name='b4thman' post='503173' date='Feb 9 2009, 04:57 AM']Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
Being a dabbler in S3D since back in the days of my Amiga, I am encouraged by the latest Nvidia push for the genre and grateful that reps like Andrew seem to be actually RESPONDING to posts; something I think Nvidia has not been all that great about in the past.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.
Being a dabbler in S3D since back in the days of my Amiga, I am encouraged by the latest Nvidia push for the genre and grateful that reps like Andrew seem to be actually RESPONDING to posts; something I think Nvidia has not been all that great about in the past.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.
[quote name='Wazoo' post='503926' date='Feb 10 2009, 01:49 PM']Being a dabbler in S3D since back in the days of my Amiga, I am encouraged by the latest Nvidia push for the genre and grateful that reps like Andrew seem to be actually RESPONDING to posts; something I think Nvidia has not been all that great about in the past.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.[/quote]
Thanks for the encouraging words.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.
[quote name='Wazoo' post='503926' date='Feb 10 2009, 01:49 PM']Being a dabbler in S3D since back in the days of my Amiga, I am encouraged by the latest Nvidia push for the genre and grateful that reps like Andrew seem to be actually RESPONDING to posts; something I think Nvidia has not been all that great about in the past.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='503963' date='Feb 10 2009, 02:12 PM']Thanks for the encouraging words.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.[/quote]
Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='503963' date='Feb 10 2009, 02:12 PM']Thanks for the encouraging words.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.
Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
As I said earlier.... I'll wait and see......
Regards,
Paul[/quote]
Hi Paul,
Great thougts on the subject and we are doing all of that.
I wanted to call your attention to a few things:
- We just posted a 3d game trailer of [url="http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_burnoutparadise_home.html"]Burnout Paradise [/url]on our website that we did with the game developer's assitsance.
- Blizzard issue a patch for [url="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/"]World of Warcraft v3.0.8[/url] that checks for 3D Vision, and then optimizes the experience for a user.
Its all starting now, and I believe it will get better. So please keep checking this forum.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
As I said earlier.... I'll wait and see......
Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Great thougts on the subject and we are doing all of that.
I wanted to call your attention to a few things:
- We just posted a 3d game trailer of Burnout Paradise on our website that we did with the game developer's assitsance.
- Blizzard issue a patch for World of Warcraft v3.0.8 that checks for 3D Vision, and then optimizes the experience for a user.
Its all starting now, and I believe it will get better. So please keep checking this forum.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:[/quote]
I'd be more confident in Nvidia's solution once you start working formally with MTBS- after all your company is pro-3d and you've mentioned you want to cooperate with other organizations to promote 3d. Formal involvement with them would be nice and ease the fears of some of the "scared" gamers that were disenchanted during the great 3d driver support withdraw of 06. I've read your interviews and posts on MTBS. Let's see some action. Time for 3D cooperation is now!
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:
I'd be more confident in Nvidia's solution once you start working formally with MTBS- after all your company is pro-3d and you've mentioned you want to cooperate with other organizations to promote 3d. Formal involvement with them would be nice and ease the fears of some of the "scared" gamers that were disenchanted during the great 3d driver support withdraw of 06. I've read your interviews and posts on MTBS. Let's see some action. Time for 3D cooperation is now!
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?[/quote]
Burnout works but it's a little weird. You need to turn off AA or set graphics to medium for the 3d effect to work.
The real problem is the performance of the game is terrible. I have a gtx 260 with a 3ghz core 2 duo and a large portion of the game is running at 30fps when I have 3d on. There must be something wrong with the game optimization or settings b/c no way should a console game be that tough on my computer.
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?
Burnout works but it's a little weird. You need to turn off AA or set graphics to medium for the 3d effect to work.
The real problem is the performance of the game is terrible. I have a gtx 260 with a 3ghz core 2 duo and a large portion of the game is running at 30fps when I have 3d on. There must be something wrong with the game optimization or settings b/c no way should a console game be that tough on my computer.
I certainly apprecaite your point of view and I may ever convince you otherwise.
However I can tell you as a company, we fundamentally believe in stereoscopic 3D tecnology, we always have, we have just been working to make it better. For a lot of users what had been out in the market for 10 years has been good enough. But we want to really make it approachable to all users.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:
[list]
[*]Jen-hsun Huang, [url="http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10060"]Our CEO on Charlie Rose last night[/url]. If you skip to about the 28 mins and 45 secs you will see Jen-hsun showing 3D Vision glasses, because he believes in the product and the technology.
[*] [url="http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_burnoutparadise_home.html"]Burnout Paradise [/url]just launched. We've been working with the developer to ensure it looks great in stereo. we are going to have a 3D game trailer online next week so look for it.
[*] Our [url="http://www.nvidia.com/content/graphicsplus/us/index.html"]entire Graphics Plus initiative [/url]includes GeForce 3D Vision. This is a web, print, and all media marketing effort, so we are dedicated marketing to promote it.
[/list]
You may want to also go read the [url="http://www.legitreviews.com/article/889/1/"]Legit Review [/url]article that just came out.[/quote]
If this is true then I am impressed at the lengths that you went to fail so spectacularly at your goal. Well, failure is acceptable but hurtful arrogance coupled with failure gets no sympathy from me.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.
I certainly apprecaite your point of view and I may ever convince you otherwise.
However I can tell you as a company, we fundamentally believe in stereoscopic 3D tecnology, we always have, we have just been working to make it better. For a lot of users what had been out in the market for 10 years has been good enough. But we want to really make it approachable to all users.
Stereoscopic 3D technology is a cornerstone of all of our marketing and engr efforts for the foreseeable future. I can show you some examples of how important it is to us:
You may want to also go read the Legit Review article that just came out.
If this is true then I am impressed at the lengths that you went to fail so spectacularly at your goal. Well, failure is acceptable but hurtful arrogance coupled with failure gets no sympathy from me.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.[/quote]
Shrug ... say what you will, but what they have seems to work better than any other gaming solution on the market. That counts for a lot.
The community that Nvidia insulted, and cheated could have been a great resource for you. We could have promoted Nvidia. But instead you cut our support in the hopes of forcing us into purchase these Nvidia preferred products.
Well good job with that.
The general feeling about Nvidia 3D is a kind of spiteful cautiousness.
It seems like most of the old gamers moved to IZ3D and ATi rather than deal with your nonsense.
Nvidia has lost thousands of dollars from all of us 7 series GPU gamers who still cant upgrade.
Shrug ... say what you will, but what they have seems to work better than any other gaming solution on the market. That counts for a lot.
I have no doubt that the drivers work very well. It is a question of driver support.
There is a real chance that whatever monitor you buy may simply not have driver support in the near future.
Whatever you are using to view 3D, Nvidia can and will cut support for it to turn a profit.
Just search this forum for any post in 2007 and 2008 and you will have all of the proof you need.
I have no doubt that the drivers work very well. It is a question of driver support.
There is a real chance that whatever monitor you buy may simply not have driver support in the near future.
Whatever you are using to view 3D, Nvidia can and will cut support for it to turn a profit.
Just search this forum for any post in 2007 and 2008 and you will have all of the proof you need.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 660 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?[/quote]
Hi
Terrific question about Burnout Paradise Trial. We didnt realize that the Trial had a different EXE than the shipping game. We have a driver update this week that adds support for the Trial. It will be released soon!
Regarding games that we don't recognize in our driver with profiles, right now our strategy is to keep it simple and have games we have tested and know how to enable a great experience for you, our users. Eventually we will probably make this user configurable. Perhaps the way you can help us is call attention to games you want profiled, and we will add them as we go.
And yes, all new profiles are updated with a new driver update.
On a related notes is there a way to get around the profile seeming to lock out certain unprofiled games executables from even attempting to go into stereo? Or is that not what is happening? Will the stereo drivers go into s3d on a game if the profile does not exist or the executable name is not recognized? I have a few older games i would love to try on stereo but they dont seem able to switch into s3d?
While I am asking questions Andrew how do we get the latest profile updates? does that only happen when a new stereo driver version is released?
Hi
Terrific question about Burnout Paradise Trial. We didnt realize that the Trial had a different EXE than the shipping game. We have a driver update this week that adds support for the Trial. It will be released soon!
Regarding games that we don't recognize in our driver with profiles, right now our strategy is to keep it simple and have games we have tested and know how to enable a great experience for you, our users. Eventually we will probably make this user configurable. Perhaps the way you can help us is call attention to games you want profiled, and we will add them as we go.
And yes, all new profiles are updated with a new driver update.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.[/quote]
Hi
Good comments and I hope I can convince you I will do all things you mentioned. Please keep active in these forums as we want to help show you guys we are committed to delivering a great solution for you.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
Hi
Good comments and I hope I can convince you I will do all things you mentioned. Please keep active in these forums as we want to help show you guys we are committed to delivering a great solution for you.
[quote name='b4thman' post='503173' date='Feb 9 2009, 04:57 AM']Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.[/quote]
[quote name='b4thman' post='503173' date='Feb 9 2009, 04:57 AM']Nvidia must ENSURE CLEAR that any 120hz (and of course more hz) monitor in the market will have support in the future, without exceptions, at least for this 3D Vision googles support mode. Nvidia did not do in the past (people gave for granted that there was something unethical), and people suffered the consequences.
Now people assumed to be true that the Samsung monitor included in the bundle will be supported forever and without limit (not only in the present), but I will not buy until this point will be totally clear. I would not require clarification if would be a different company, but Nvidia does not play fair, and has clearly demonstrated in the recent past.
Also would not be a bad idea to ensure regular updating of the drivers, at least for an update compatibily with recent games... but Nvidia never do such kind of things.
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W (22 inch 1680x1050)
Zalman TriMon ZM-M190 (19 inch 1280x1024)
Zalman HDTV LCD (1366x768)
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W (22 inch 1680x1050)
Zalman TriMon ZM-M190 (19 inch 1280x1024)
Zalman HDTV LCD (1366x768)
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.
i7-7700k. 1080ti GTX. 32 gig RAM. Windows 10. Soundblaster Titanium Creative 7.1 Surround Sound.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.[/quote]
Thanks for the encouraging words.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.
To me, the trade-off between eye-candy options and S3D has to be finally overcome before I am won over.
I kept my CRT and S3D game playing up until the point that post-processing effects and lighting/shadows influence on my gameplay immersion outweighed having to turn them off to get them to work with S3D.
Back in the DX8 days... it was a no-brainer: Stereo gameplay trumped all else. However, as graphic engines have matured, I have found that I got more immersion from playing in old fashion 2D with the graphics options cranked to max than I did turning them off to make the game work in S3D.
Ultimately I abandoned S3D and went with triple LCD monitor gaming for immersion. Although fantastic, this too has compatibility issues with games and suffers from the same chicken/egg problem as S3D. That being said, I'm able to play most modern games with the options cranked and it is a fantastic experience. [As an aside... I am still STUNNED that Nvidia has not added native triple-monitor gaming support at the driver level. Considering there is both a hardward and software solution out there to do this, I would be surprised if it is a technical issue]
Yet, I would GLADLY turn in my 3-monitor setup for a 3D solution that actually works: games where the crosshair and other tidbits are not rendered as 2D sprites thus ruining the experience; the ability to run at full graphics options; fluid fps, etc.
Pipedream? Maybe. But having seen the possibility of 3D gaming (WoW was absolutely STUNNING in 3D), I keep holding out hope.
I'm taking a wait-and-see on how this all shakes out.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.[/quote]
Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
As I said earlier.... I'll wait and see......
Regards,
Paul
I do like triple head gaming quite well and I think its really cool. I actually think triple head gaming for a developer is a harder initiative to understand that stereo gaming since for the most part, stereo gaming is enabled out of the box today with some work by the developer. Triple or even dual head gaming is a harder one for a developer to get engaged with since they have to change their core engine to support a wide angle viewing, worry about the number of users that will have 3 monitor with the same resolution, and also how do they change their game experience since many times its about surprising the users. That being said, I beleive it will happen, since many of us will want more immersive experiences.
I hope you do dabble back with Stereoscopic 3D since it will get better. Don't forget, many game developers simply didn't know it was an option for their games and now they are beginning to understand what it takes to optimize their titles for stereoscopic 3D.
Please keep checking these forums and postings, since its very encouraging to me to see people are interested in the products.
Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
As I said earlier.... I'll wait and see......
Regards,
Paul
i7-7700k. 1080ti GTX. 32 gig RAM. Windows 10. Soundblaster Titanium Creative 7.1 Surround Sound.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
As I said earlier.... I'll wait and see......
Regards,
Paul[/quote]
Hi Paul,
Great thougts on the subject and we are doing all of that.
I wanted to call your attention to a few things:
- We just posted a 3d game trailer of [url="http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_burnoutparadise_home.html"]Burnout Paradise [/url]on our website that we did with the game developer's assitsance.
- Blizzard issue a patch for [url="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/"]World of Warcraft v3.0.8[/url] that checks for 3D Vision, and then optimizes the experience for a user.
Its all starting now, and I believe it will get better. So please keep checking this forum.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Ultimately, as I'm sure you know, it is a matter of economics for the devs. What has always concerned me is whether or not the R.O.I. for the marginal increase in dev time/cost to make a game S3D friendly is enough to justify the expense from their perspective. I would assume by definition that the market of S3D users is a fraction of a percentage of the overall target market for a developer. Thus, how do you convince a dev to spend the time to render HUD's at screen depth, render floating text such as names in 3D and not 2D in a multiplayer game at actual character depth (thank you WoW for doing this correctly), as well as rendering post-processing effects in a correct 3D way.
In my opinion, a sign that Nvidia was truly dedicated to this market would be if they dedicated substantial resources to assist dev houses in this process. Does this entail free coders at the disposal of the devs who can take game code and tweak it for S3D?? I don't know. But I would think that making the cost close to zero for the devs is the ONLY way this chicken and egg problem will get solved.
Without it, we are just going to continue to get games that kinda work, kinda don't. It is, in the short term at least, a less expensive and risky proposition for Nvidia; i.e. hoping that there are enough "good enough" games to increase the marketing hype and get more and more people to try S3D thus increasing demand for devs to tweak them at their own cost. Yet, I fear that this is, at least to some degree, what led to the lack of acceptance of S3D the "first" time around; marginal user experiences that kept users from getting evangelical enough to recommend the experience to their friends.
However, if Nvidia is serious about this initiative as you say, they will be thinking long term about the problem and willing to lay out the resources up front to greatly increase the user experience and thus, again in the long term, garner acceptance of S3D.
As I said earlier.... I'll wait and see......
Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Great thougts on the subject and we are doing all of that.
I wanted to call your attention to a few things:
- We just posted a 3d game trailer of Burnout Paradise on our website that we did with the game developer's assitsance.
- Blizzard issue a patch for World of Warcraft v3.0.8 that checks for 3D Vision, and then optimizes the experience for a user.
Its all starting now, and I believe it will get better. So please keep checking this forum.