3D vision R.I.P. 2013....Oculus Rift and Bioshock Infinite.
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I've been using 3D vision for years now and have personally been responsible for many people getting 3D vision setups. I've spent over 10 000.00 on Nvidia gear and I am on my second set of 3D vision surround monitors and have had also purchased 3 different 3d vision projectors and the Sony HMZ 1 and 2. Yes I am a 3D vision addict. lol.
It's clear that 3D vision is going to have it's last year of support (at least without it being legacy) Nvidia does not care at all for 3D vision and it's really sad for someone who has been supporting them from the begining. Without Helix (god bless you) 3D vision would already be dead. Helix is like a legend with me and my buddies but he can only do so much.
Helix has stated that DX 10/11 will be impossible to fix and there is nothing he can do. With the PS4/xbox 720 coming this fall, it basically means the death of DX9, and also of 3D vision this year. We will be lucky to get a few non triple AAA titles that will be fixable for 2014 and beyond but every other big game will be DX 10/11 only.
We got lucky with AMD trying to get 3D support from developers for games like Sleeping Dogs, Hitman Absolution, and Tomb Raider. NO thanks to Nvidia, but luckily AMDs work is paying off for 3D vision users at the moment. Hopefully they don't decide to block the 3D vision driver in the future. It's really too bad that Bioshock Infinate (an AMD game) didn't get the support like Tomb Raider.
The Oculus Rift has a lot of momentum right now and has developer interest. This could be the device that starts the 3D revolution for the majority of non 3D gamers out there. People love to bash 3D as it's the cool thing to do and MOST of them have never even played a 3D vision ready (helix) game. My friends who used to bash 3D gaming now all own 3D vision setups after having seen them at my house. 3D for gaming is natural and 2D is actually unnatural. Our brains want to experience the world of gaming like we do in everyday life and that's in three demensions!
Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person.
I think we should be focusing our time on pushing for Oculus Rift support from Irrational Games instead of 3D vision right now. The rift is on a roll now and it's only getting good publicity and the general population doesn't seem to have a negative bias towards it (yet) The Rift may be the next big thing and people are always looking to support the next big thing. Id rather wait a year for Oculus Rift support for Bioshock instead of wasting time pleading with developers to support something they care nothing for. Again, I've spent more money on 3D vision and Nvidia then almost anybody on the planet but I know when the time to give up is at hand. Sadly this will most likely be the end of 3D vision, and hopefully AMD keeps up the good work, but the Oculus Rift has the potential to transform gaming forever.
I've been using 3D vision for years now and have personally been responsible for many people getting 3D vision setups. I've spent over 10 000.00 on Nvidia gear and I am on my second set of 3D vision surround monitors and have had also purchased 3 different 3d vision projectors and the Sony HMZ 1 and 2. Yes I am a 3D vision addict. lol.
It's clear that 3D vision is going to have it's last year of support (at least without it being legacy) Nvidia does not care at all for 3D vision and it's really sad for someone who has been supporting them from the begining. Without Helix (god bless you) 3D vision would already be dead. Helix is like a legend with me and my buddies but he can only do so much.
Helix has stated that DX 10/11 will be impossible to fix and there is nothing he can do. With the PS4/xbox 720 coming this fall, it basically means the death of DX9, and also of 3D vision this year. We will be lucky to get a few non triple AAA titles that will be fixable for 2014 and beyond but every other big game will be DX 10/11 only.
We got lucky with AMD trying to get 3D support from developers for games like Sleeping Dogs, Hitman Absolution, and Tomb Raider. NO thanks to Nvidia, but luckily AMDs work is paying off for 3D vision users at the moment. Hopefully they don't decide to block the 3D vision driver in the future. It's really too bad that Bioshock Infinate (an AMD game) didn't get the support like Tomb Raider.
The Oculus Rift has a lot of momentum right now and has developer interest. This could be the device that starts the 3D revolution for the majority of non 3D gamers out there. People love to bash 3D as it's the cool thing to do and MOST of them have never even played a 3D vision ready (helix) game. My friends who used to bash 3D gaming now all own 3D vision setups after having seen them at my house. 3D for gaming is natural and 2D is actually unnatural. Our brains want to experience the world of gaming like we do in everyday life and that's in three demensions!
Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person.
I think we should be focusing our time on pushing for Oculus Rift support from Irrational Games instead of 3D vision right now. The rift is on a roll now and it's only getting good publicity and the general population doesn't seem to have a negative bias towards it (yet) The Rift may be the next big thing and people are always looking to support the next big thing. Id rather wait a year for Oculus Rift support for Bioshock instead of wasting time pleading with developers to support something they care nothing for. Again, I've spent more money on 3D vision and Nvidia then almost anybody on the planet but I know when the time to give up is at hand. Sadly this will most likely be the end of 3D vision, and hopefully AMD keeps up the good work, but the Oculus Rift has the potential to transform gaming forever.
I'm an enthusiast for 3D gaming at about the same level as you.. I played the original Alice game (and many others) back with the old OpenGL friendly NVidia drivers on my CRT. Then one day the monitor died, and I was already realizing that the compatibility support for stereo gaming was beginning to die too. I had to go through the painful process of going back to exclusive 2D after picking up my first LCD monitor as a replacement.
Now, Id have to agree that it's starting to look a bit grim for this new generation of 3d Vision, but I think NVIDIA was able to stab further into the consumer market this time around, so hopefully at worst we'll just see a lull before something brings it back. The Rift does seem like a potential savior in this respect, though not so much for me. I sent my HMZ 1 back since my eyes just don't like low-rez despite it's awesome picture quality. Every time I looked off into the fuzzy looking distance in whatever given game I was reminded I was looking at a low-rez screen.
At any rate, the main thing I wanted to comment on is I believe you're wrong in that everyone unknowingly wants to play in 3D. I think there's two distinct types of players, and we're in the minority.
There's the set (us) who appreciate "the world" that is created within a game, and shoot for as much immersion to bring that world to life as possible. I go so far as to primarily walk in Elder Scroll games just to take in the feeling of "being there". But there is a great number of people who are more interested in conquering the mechanics of a given game. Their thrill lies far more on getting achievements, best stats, fastest play throughs, etc.. and I think they see 3D as detrimental to all of that (like a distraction)... and THAT'S the one's we see saying "3D is a gimmick" etc. after honestly trying out stereo (there's still a large number that just haven't been properly introduced, I wont dispute that).
Any first person shooter fan with this mindset is going to hate 3D since it's harder to line up headshots, especially in MP. So I think this is one of the larger hurdles because they help convince the rest to stick with 2D.
I'm an enthusiast for 3D gaming at about the same level as you.. I played the original Alice game (and many others) back with the old OpenGL friendly NVidia drivers on my CRT. Then one day the monitor died, and I was already realizing that the compatibility support for stereo gaming was beginning to die too. I had to go through the painful process of going back to exclusive 2D after picking up my first LCD monitor as a replacement.
Now, Id have to agree that it's starting to look a bit grim for this new generation of 3d Vision, but I think NVIDIA was able to stab further into the consumer market this time around, so hopefully at worst we'll just see a lull before something brings it back. The Rift does seem like a potential savior in this respect, though not so much for me. I sent my HMZ 1 back since my eyes just don't like low-rez despite it's awesome picture quality. Every time I looked off into the fuzzy looking distance in whatever given game I was reminded I was looking at a low-rez screen.
At any rate, the main thing I wanted to comment on is I believe you're wrong in that everyone unknowingly wants to play in 3D. I think there's two distinct types of players, and we're in the minority.
There's the set (us) who appreciate "the world" that is created within a game, and shoot for as much immersion to bring that world to life as possible. I go so far as to primarily walk in Elder Scroll games just to take in the feeling of "being there". But there is a great number of people who are more interested in conquering the mechanics of a given game. Their thrill lies far more on getting achievements, best stats, fastest play throughs, etc.. and I think they see 3D as detrimental to all of that (like a distraction)... and THAT'S the one's we see saying "3D is a gimmick" etc. after honestly trying out stereo (there's still a large number that just haven't been properly introduced, I wont dispute that).
Any first person shooter fan with this mindset is going to hate 3D since it's harder to line up headshots, especially in MP. So I think this is one of the larger hurdles because they help convince the rest to stick with 2D.
I agree with you about the low res looks of the HMZ as that is why I returned mine also. The Rift is supposed to be getting higher rez, faster response time panels for the consumer model. Here's hoping.
I personally find that I play better in 3D, even for MP. I find that when the characters are clearly separated from the background makes it easier for me to pull off headshots and just makes me respond faster, but I guess someone who's not adjusted to 3D at first will find it harder to play MP.
How many of your friends went 3D after getting a demo at your place? 3D really needs to be demoed properly before the average gamer gets it.
I also just love walking around open world games and just experiencing the world and atmosphere. My favourite part in Skyrim was just walking up those steps to reach the top of the mountain to talk to the greys. Gameplay and mechanics however were not up to par with the 3D and atmosphere for Skyrim.
I agree with you about the low res looks of the HMZ as that is why I returned mine also. The Rift is supposed to be getting higher rez, faster response time panels for the consumer model. Here's hoping.
I personally find that I play better in 3D, even for MP. I find that when the characters are clearly separated from the background makes it easier for me to pull off headshots and just makes me respond faster, but I guess someone who's not adjusted to 3D at first will find it harder to play MP.
How many of your friends went 3D after getting a demo at your place? 3D really needs to be demoed properly before the average gamer gets it.
I also just love walking around open world games and just experiencing the world and atmosphere. My favourite part in Skyrim was just walking up those steps to reach the top of the mountain to talk to the greys. Gameplay and mechanics however were not up to par with the 3D and atmosphere for Skyrim.
I see a lot of people worried about creating threads only to have anti-3D commenter come in and post against it, but to me, thats a great thing when that happens.......so long as you take the opportunity to educate them and use decisive phrases/words/ideas that they will understand, like "holodeck", to help them realize 3D potential, without seeing it. Because, really, who doesn't want the game world laid out in front of them, totally realistically. I always start off responses with something about getting them to think it over, and definitely don't judge 3d in games by 3d movies, which are stunted by compromises, the game world can literally look as though your in it.
I do now tend to hint to people that bigger screens are better. For me its an absolute truth, i can't stand the VG278H (sadly the biggest 3D monitor!) and i now only recommend big screen displays, preferably Samsung or DLP with checkerboard.
I see a lot of people worried about creating threads only to have anti-3D commenter come in and post against it, but to me, thats a great thing when that happens.......so long as you take the opportunity to educate them and use decisive phrases/words/ideas that they will understand, like "holodeck", to help them realize 3D potential, without seeing it. Because, really, who doesn't want the game world laid out in front of them, totally realistically. I always start off responses with something about getting them to think it over, and definitely don't judge 3d in games by 3d movies, which are stunted by compromises, the game world can literally look as though your in it.
I do now tend to hint to people that bigger screens are better. For me its an absolute truth, i can't stand the VG278H (sadly the biggest 3D monitor!) and i now only recommend big screen displays, preferably Samsung or DLP with checkerboard.
[quote="Conan481"]Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person. [/quote]
I think it's still worth commenting and having a presence for 3D Vision based on the example of Deus Ex. When it came out it was 100% busted. Complaints and suggestions transformed it into a true S3D game worth playing.
We also just got a prime response for the Lara Croft cursor. Doesn't seem useless to me.
Conan481 said:Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person.
I think it's still worth commenting and having a presence for 3D Vision based on the example of Deus Ex. When it came out it was 100% busted. Complaints and suggestions transformed it into a true S3D game worth playing.
We also just got a prime response for the Lara Croft cursor. Doesn't seem useless to me.
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[quote="bo3b"][quote="Conan481"]Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person. [/quote]
I think it's still worth commenting and having a presence for 3D Vision based on the example of Deus Ex. When it came out it was 100% busted. Complaints and suggestions transformed it into a true S3D game worth playing.
We also just got a prime response for the Lara Croft cursor. Doesn't seem useless to me.
[/quote]
Deus Ex was an AMD 3D title and used quad buffering which was later fixed with the help of Andrew Fear (mod) who is now abandoned the 3D vision forum. Also the "fixed" 3D in Deus Ex was garbage and I actually used the hack to disable the ingame 3D option and just used a low depth high convegeance option through the Nvidia driver.
It's great that they fixed the crosshair for Tomb Raider, but that game actually promised 3D support so they were just fixing what should have worked from the begining. NEVER has a developer fixed a non 3D Vision Ready or AMD3D game because of fan reaction. Trust me, we tried to get many games fixed on forums and it never worked. At best we bitched about games that were rated 3D vision ready like Witcher 2 and promoted as 3D but shipped with busted 3D. Again with a 100 page thread and the help of Andrew we were able to finally able to get the witcher 2 working in 3D like promised.
Just feeling down with Nvidia abandoning 3D and with Helix mods not able to work with DX 10/11. Here's hoping Nvidia has just been biding their time for the announcement of 3D vision 3 with support for DX 10/11 and the news that they hired Helix to make every game 3D vision ready!!
AMD is also not doing very well right now. Who knows how long they will be around for, and what if they decide to block the 3D vision driver from working with their 3D solution? It seems like they already did that with Sniper Elite game. Yes there are some nice games supported now and I have a back log to last me a while, but the future looks kinda dim....
Conan481 said:Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person.
I think it's still worth commenting and having a presence for 3D Vision based on the example of Deus Ex. When it came out it was 100% busted. Complaints and suggestions transformed it into a true S3D game worth playing.
We also just got a prime response for the Lara Croft cursor. Doesn't seem useless to me.
Deus Ex was an AMD 3D title and used quad buffering which was later fixed with the help of Andrew Fear (mod) who is now abandoned the 3D vision forum. Also the "fixed" 3D in Deus Ex was garbage and I actually used the hack to disable the ingame 3D option and just used a low depth high convegeance option through the Nvidia driver.
It's great that they fixed the crosshair for Tomb Raider, but that game actually promised 3D support so they were just fixing what should have worked from the begining. NEVER has a developer fixed a non 3D Vision Ready or AMD3D game because of fan reaction. Trust me, we tried to get many games fixed on forums and it never worked. At best we bitched about games that were rated 3D vision ready like Witcher 2 and promoted as 3D but shipped with busted 3D. Again with a 100 page thread and the help of Andrew we were able to finally able to get the witcher 2 working in 3D like promised.
Just feeling down with Nvidia abandoning 3D and with Helix mods not able to work with DX 10/11. Here's hoping Nvidia has just been biding their time for the announcement of 3D vision 3 with support for DX 10/11 and the news that they hired Helix to make every game 3D vision ready!!
AMD is also not doing very well right now. Who knows how long they will be around for, and what if they decide to block the 3D vision driver from working with their 3D solution? It seems like they already did that with Sniper Elite game. Yes there are some nice games supported now and I have a back log to last me a while, but the future looks kinda dim....
Actually a few games have done 3D passes after release, Two Worlds 2, WoW, Everquest 2, Firefall seems to be working towards 3D readiness, they have an oculus dev kit, and not in release yet but they have fixed everything that doesn't work in 3D when reported except for the HUD, the latest patch fixed tons of shaders that I'd reported as broken. That's a lot of commas.
Right now, I am actually starting to think it's going to be the smaller independent studios that do the better 3D work. Lots of indie games look good in 3D, Trine is 3D ready I think, Game Of Dwarves looks sweet with it's multilayered levels all crisscrossing and winding around (ya gotta alt tab to get it to kick back into 3D mode, it turns off the emitter every time there is a pre-rendered cutscene), Tribes Ascend also added a 3D HUD and fixed the lighting issues, World Of Tanks added the same after release, Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile are frikken sweet in 3D when you have the convergence point at about the characters head so any attack that comes from the air has awesome popout, fire storm in path of exile is as mindblowing as SW:TORs jedi consulars hail of stones when you turned the camera around so the rocks are coming right at you.
Actually a few games have done 3D passes after release, Two Worlds 2, WoW, Everquest 2, Firefall seems to be working towards 3D readiness, they have an oculus dev kit, and not in release yet but they have fixed everything that doesn't work in 3D when reported except for the HUD, the latest patch fixed tons of shaders that I'd reported as broken. That's a lot of commas.
Right now, I am actually starting to think it's going to be the smaller independent studios that do the better 3D work. Lots of indie games look good in 3D, Trine is 3D ready I think, Game Of Dwarves looks sweet with it's multilayered levels all crisscrossing and winding around (ya gotta alt tab to get it to kick back into 3D mode, it turns off the emitter every time there is a pre-rendered cutscene), Tribes Ascend also added a 3D HUD and fixed the lighting issues, World Of Tanks added the same after release, Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile are frikken sweet in 3D when you have the convergence point at about the characters head so any attack that comes from the air has awesome popout, fire storm in path of exile is as mindblowing as SW:TORs jedi consulars hail of stones when you turned the camera around so the rocks are coming right at you.
[quote="Conan481"][quote="bo3b"][quote="Conan481"]
AMD is also not doing very well right now. Who knows how long they will be around for, and what if they decide to block the 3D vision driver from working with their 3D solution? It seems like they already did that with Sniper Elite game. Yes there are some nice games supported now and I have a back log to last me a while, but the future looks kinda dim....[/quote]
I wouldnt worry about sniper V2. MTBS does amd game reviews and even they said it was shitty rendered. I think they said tridef's depth buffered 3d was best way to go[Which is not so hot].
Conan481 said:
AMD is also not doing very well right now. Who knows how long they will be around for, and what if they decide to block the 3D vision driver from working with their 3D solution? It seems like they already did that with Sniper Elite game. Yes there are some nice games supported now and I have a back log to last me a while, but the future looks kinda dim....
I wouldnt worry about sniper V2. MTBS does amd game reviews and even they said it was shitty rendered. I think they said tridef's depth buffered 3d was best way to go[Which is not so hot].
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[quote="Conan481"]Deus Ex was an AMD 3D title and used quad buffering which was later fixed with the help of Andrew Fear (mod) who is now abandoned the 3D vision forum. Also the "fixed" 3D in Deus Ex was garbage and I actually used the hack to disable the ingame 3D option and just used a low depth high convegeance option through the Nvidia driver.[/quote]
Well, respectfully, I just disagree. I've read a lot of people describe Deus Ex 3D as garbage, and I thought it was spot on, and [i]really [/i]helped the gameplay.
Now I've never been able to tell exactly what people are talking about, there is so much rubbish on the boards about this game now, that I don't think I can get a clear idea.
I also played it on a projector, and about a year after it came out, and presumably it was in good shape by that time.
Here is my gallery of screenshots with max depth, max convergence:
[url]http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/album/4f1fea8c378501db48000055/[/url]
Nevertheless, my point is that the devs didn't have to fix this. And yet, they did.
Conan481 said:Deus Ex was an AMD 3D title and used quad buffering which was later fixed with the help of Andrew Fear (mod) who is now abandoned the 3D vision forum. Also the "fixed" 3D in Deus Ex was garbage and I actually used the hack to disable the ingame 3D option and just used a low depth high convegeance option through the Nvidia driver.
Well, respectfully, I just disagree. I've read a lot of people describe Deus Ex 3D as garbage, and I thought it was spot on, and really helped the gameplay.
Now I've never been able to tell exactly what people are talking about, there is so much rubbish on the boards about this game now, that I don't think I can get a clear idea.
I also played it on a projector, and about a year after it came out, and presumably it was in good shape by that time.
Here is my gallery of screenshots with max depth, max convergence:
So true:
http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/25/oculus-rift-ceo-vr-is-the-next-gen-gamers-actually-want/
Oculus Rift CEO: VR is the next-gen gamers actually want
“You don’t see people saying ‘Wow, all my life I’ve always wanted to play a social mobile casual streaming game with microtransactions.’”
Oculus Rift CEO: VR is the next-gen gamers actually want
“You don’t see people saying ‘Wow, all my life I’ve always wanted to play a social mobile casual streaming game with microtransactions.’”
All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com
[quote="birthright"]So true:
http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/25/oculus-rift-ceo-vr-is-the-next-gen-gamers-actually-want/
Oculus Rift CEO: VR is the next-gen gamers actually want
“You don’t see people saying ‘Wow, all my life I’ve always wanted to play a social mobile casual streaming game with microtransactions.’”[/quote]
Unfortunately they are the masses, it's either them or the kids raised on Halo and CoD. I'm pretty sure OR/VR will still be consider a niche. The masses don't want to wear glasses to achieve stereoscopic 3D, it's highly unlikely they'll want to wear a set of VR goggles to achieve the "Palmer Part". :D
Oculus Rift CEO: VR is the next-gen gamers actually want
“You don’t see people saying ‘Wow, all my life I’ve always wanted to play a social mobile casual streaming game with microtransactions.’”
Unfortunately they are the masses, it's either them or the kids raised on Halo and CoD. I'm pretty sure OR/VR will still be consider a niche. The masses don't want to wear glasses to achieve stereoscopic 3D, it's highly unlikely they'll want to wear a set of VR goggles to achieve the "Palmer Part". :D
[quote="Conan481"]3D for gaming is natural and 2D is actually unnatural. Our brains want to experience the world of gaming like we do in everyday life and that's in three demensions.[/quote]This is subjective, it's also personal preference to the end user. I still sometimes use the first nvidia 3D Vision kit which i purchased several years ago now, whilst games like metro 2033 and max payne 3 can look different on very high stereoscopic depth-it still (to me) is nothing like my natural vision and the perspective on the real world i see on a day to day bases. I see 3D Vision as a bit of a gimmick really and i much prefer playing games without 3D enabled, with 3D Vision i just loose to much detail, colour and in game lighting effects, maybe the first 3D Vision glasses are too dark?. 3D media and tech seems to come into fashion and then goes out of fashion, it's been around for a long time but i think the day you can throw away those 3D glasses it might be better once the technology and monitors or TV's have advanced?. I enjoyed nvidia 3D Vision at the start (two-three years ago) but the novelty wore off for me. Maybe nvidia 3D Vision kit 2 might be better than kit 1?, don't know don't care if i'm honest plus i got better pc hardware to think about and invest in.
Conan481 said:3D for gaming is natural and 2D is actually unnatural. Our brains want to experience the world of gaming like we do in everyday life and that's in three demensions.
This is subjective, it's also personal preference to the end user. I still sometimes use the first nvidia 3D Vision kit which i purchased several years ago now, whilst games like metro 2033 and max payne 3 can look different on very high stereoscopic depth-it still (to me) is nothing like my natural vision and the perspective on the real world i see on a day to day bases. I see 3D Vision as a bit of a gimmick really and i much prefer playing games without 3D enabled, with 3D Vision i just loose to much detail, colour and in game lighting effects, maybe the first 3D Vision glasses are too dark?. 3D media and tech seems to come into fashion and then goes out of fashion, it's been around for a long time but i think the day you can throw away those 3D glasses it might be better once the technology and monitors or TV's have advanced?. I enjoyed nvidia 3D Vision at the start (two-three years ago) but the novelty wore off for me. Maybe nvidia 3D Vision kit 2 might be better than kit 1?, don't know don't care if i'm honest plus i got better pc hardware to think about and invest in.
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It's clear that 3D vision is going to have it's last year of support (at least without it being legacy) Nvidia does not care at all for 3D vision and it's really sad for someone who has been supporting them from the begining. Without Helix (god bless you) 3D vision would already be dead. Helix is like a legend with me and my buddies but he can only do so much.
Helix has stated that DX 10/11 will be impossible to fix and there is nothing he can do. With the PS4/xbox 720 coming this fall, it basically means the death of DX9, and also of 3D vision this year. We will be lucky to get a few non triple AAA titles that will be fixable for 2014 and beyond but every other big game will be DX 10/11 only.
We got lucky with AMD trying to get 3D support from developers for games like Sleeping Dogs, Hitman Absolution, and Tomb Raider. NO thanks to Nvidia, but luckily AMDs work is paying off for 3D vision users at the moment. Hopefully they don't decide to block the 3D vision driver in the future. It's really too bad that Bioshock Infinate (an AMD game) didn't get the support like Tomb Raider.
The Oculus Rift has a lot of momentum right now and has developer interest. This could be the device that starts the 3D revolution for the majority of non 3D gamers out there. People love to bash 3D as it's the cool thing to do and MOST of them have never even played a 3D vision ready (helix) game. My friends who used to bash 3D gaming now all own 3D vision setups after having seen them at my house. 3D for gaming is natural and 2D is actually unnatural. Our brains want to experience the world of gaming like we do in everyday life and that's in three demensions!
Now I know a lot of you guys are posting all around to try and get 3D support for Bioshock, which is great. But, because of the ignorant people (including the mods)most of these threads will turn into troll fests and name calling very quickly. Even developers have NO IDEA what a 3D vision (surround) setup adds to the game. I would pay for Ken Levine to come to my house and get a 3D vision demo on my surround setup or my projector and I would be shocked if he was not impressed and it's not like it takes millions of dollars or hundreds of people to get 3D vision working. Ask Helix and company (you guys know who you are)how much work it takes. Now, I'm not saying it isn't time consuming for Helix and of course I greatly appreciate his hard work but Helix can get a fix out sometimes within a single day and that's one person.
I think we should be focusing our time on pushing for Oculus Rift support from Irrational Games instead of 3D vision right now. The rift is on a roll now and it's only getting good publicity and the general population doesn't seem to have a negative bias towards it (yet) The Rift may be the next big thing and people are always looking to support the next big thing. Id rather wait a year for Oculus Rift support for Bioshock instead of wasting time pleading with developers to support something they care nothing for. Again, I've spent more money on 3D vision and Nvidia then almost anybody on the planet but I know when the time to give up is at hand. Sadly this will most likely be the end of 3D vision, and hopefully AMD keeps up the good work, but the Oculus Rift has the potential to transform gaming forever.
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Now, Id have to agree that it's starting to look a bit grim for this new generation of 3d Vision, but I think NVIDIA was able to stab further into the consumer market this time around, so hopefully at worst we'll just see a lull before something brings it back. The Rift does seem like a potential savior in this respect, though not so much for me. I sent my HMZ 1 back since my eyes just don't like low-rez despite it's awesome picture quality. Every time I looked off into the fuzzy looking distance in whatever given game I was reminded I was looking at a low-rez screen.
At any rate, the main thing I wanted to comment on is I believe you're wrong in that everyone unknowingly wants to play in 3D. I think there's two distinct types of players, and we're in the minority.
There's the set (us) who appreciate "the world" that is created within a game, and shoot for as much immersion to bring that world to life as possible. I go so far as to primarily walk in Elder Scroll games just to take in the feeling of "being there". But there is a great number of people who are more interested in conquering the mechanics of a given game. Their thrill lies far more on getting achievements, best stats, fastest play throughs, etc.. and I think they see 3D as detrimental to all of that (like a distraction)... and THAT'S the one's we see saying "3D is a gimmick" etc. after honestly trying out stereo (there's still a large number that just haven't been properly introduced, I wont dispute that).
Any first person shooter fan with this mindset is going to hate 3D since it's harder to line up headshots, especially in MP. So I think this is one of the larger hurdles because they help convince the rest to stick with 2D.
I personally find that I play better in 3D, even for MP. I find that when the characters are clearly separated from the background makes it easier for me to pull off headshots and just makes me respond faster, but I guess someone who's not adjusted to 3D at first will find it harder to play MP.
How many of your friends went 3D after getting a demo at your place? 3D really needs to be demoed properly before the average gamer gets it.
I also just love walking around open world games and just experiencing the world and atmosphere. My favourite part in Skyrim was just walking up those steps to reach the top of the mountain to talk to the greys. Gameplay and mechanics however were not up to par with the 3D and atmosphere for Skyrim.
I do now tend to hint to people that bigger screens are better. For me its an absolute truth, i can't stand the VG278H (sadly the biggest 3D monitor!) and i now only recommend big screen displays, preferably Samsung or DLP with checkerboard.
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I think it's still worth commenting and having a presence for 3D Vision based on the example of Deus Ex. When it came out it was 100% busted. Complaints and suggestions transformed it into a true S3D game worth playing.
We also just got a prime response for the Lara Croft cursor. Doesn't seem useless to me.
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Deus Ex was an AMD 3D title and used quad buffering which was later fixed with the help of Andrew Fear (mod) who is now abandoned the 3D vision forum. Also the "fixed" 3D in Deus Ex was garbage and I actually used the hack to disable the ingame 3D option and just used a low depth high convegeance option through the Nvidia driver.
It's great that they fixed the crosshair for Tomb Raider, but that game actually promised 3D support so they were just fixing what should have worked from the begining. NEVER has a developer fixed a non 3D Vision Ready or AMD3D game because of fan reaction. Trust me, we tried to get many games fixed on forums and it never worked. At best we bitched about games that were rated 3D vision ready like Witcher 2 and promoted as 3D but shipped with busted 3D. Again with a 100 page thread and the help of Andrew we were able to finally able to get the witcher 2 working in 3D like promised.
Just feeling down with Nvidia abandoning 3D and with Helix mods not able to work with DX 10/11. Here's hoping Nvidia has just been biding their time for the announcement of 3D vision 3 with support for DX 10/11 and the news that they hired Helix to make every game 3D vision ready!!
AMD is also not doing very well right now. Who knows how long they will be around for, and what if they decide to block the 3D vision driver from working with their 3D solution? It seems like they already did that with Sniper Elite game. Yes there are some nice games supported now and I have a back log to last me a while, but the future looks kinda dim....
Right now, I am actually starting to think it's going to be the smaller independent studios that do the better 3D work. Lots of indie games look good in 3D, Trine is 3D ready I think, Game Of Dwarves looks sweet with it's multilayered levels all crisscrossing and winding around (ya gotta alt tab to get it to kick back into 3D mode, it turns off the emitter every time there is a pre-rendered cutscene), Tribes Ascend also added a 3D HUD and fixed the lighting issues, World Of Tanks added the same after release, Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile are frikken sweet in 3D when you have the convergence point at about the characters head so any attack that comes from the air has awesome popout, fire storm in path of exile is as mindblowing as SW:TORs jedi consulars hail of stones when you turned the camera around so the rocks are coming right at you.
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Well, respectfully, I just disagree. I've read a lot of people describe Deus Ex 3D as garbage, and I thought it was spot on, and really helped the gameplay.
Now I've never been able to tell exactly what people are talking about, there is so much rubbish on the boards about this game now, that I don't think I can get a clear idea.
I also played it on a projector, and about a year after it came out, and presumably it was in good shape by that time.
Here is my gallery of screenshots with max depth, max convergence:
http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/bo3bber/album/4f1fea8c378501db48000055/
Nevertheless, my point is that the devs didn't have to fix this. And yet, they did.
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http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/25/oculus-rift-ceo-vr-is-the-next-gen-gamers-actually-want/
Oculus Rift CEO: VR is the next-gen gamers actually want
“You don’t see people saying ‘Wow, all my life I’ve always wanted to play a social mobile casual streaming game with microtransactions.’”
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Unfortunately they are the masses, it's either them or the kids raised on Halo and CoD. I'm pretty sure OR/VR will still be consider a niche. The masses don't want to wear glasses to achieve stereoscopic 3D, it's highly unlikely they'll want to wear a set of VR goggles to achieve the "Palmer Part". :D
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