is it not true that a 3000 lumen projector is definitely preferred over 2000 for 3d gaming? does this not rule out practically all the 2000 lumen projectors of the same resolution?
is it not true that a 3000 lumen projector is definitely preferred over 2000 for 3d gaming? does this not rule out practically all the 2000 lumen projectors of the same resolution?
Lumen ratings can be misleading. It's only a measure of white brightness, and manufacturers can choose to sacrifice color brightness for white brightness so that they can advertise a high lumen rating. For best picture quality in a DLP projector, the color wheel should only have red green and blue (RGB). However, many manufacturers make the RGB sections smaller to make room for white. Typically Acer does this. The Benq 1070 is somewhat remarkable for having only RGB, and therefore having superior color in 2D.
In 3D, much of that doesn't matter though. In 3D, the Acer H5360 only uses the RGB segments for the picture you see. The remaining segments are either blocked or used for DLP-link flash. While the projector is rated 2500 lumens, from the Projector Central Review
"H5360 output drops to 698 ANSI-lumens in either the NVIDIA 3D or DLP Link modes."
[url]http://www.projectorcentral.com/Acer_H5360_home_theater_projector_review.htm?page=Additional-Advantages[/url]
Unfortunately lumens in 3D mode is rarely measured. A "3000 lumen" projector vs a "2000 lumen" projector doesn't really tell you anything. If you know what kind of color wheels they have, then we might be able to take a guess which actually has a brighter lamp and therefore which would likely be better in 3D mode. Without real measurements, we can only guess though.
Lumen ratings can be misleading. It's only a measure of white brightness, and manufacturers can choose to sacrifice color brightness for white brightness so that they can advertise a high lumen rating. For best picture quality in a DLP projector, the color wheel should only have red green and blue (RGB). However, many manufacturers make the RGB sections smaller to make room for white. Typically Acer does this. The Benq 1070 is somewhat remarkable for having only RGB, and therefore having superior color in 2D.
In 3D, much of that doesn't matter though. In 3D, the Acer H5360 only uses the RGB segments for the picture you see. The remaining segments are either blocked or used for DLP-link flash. While the projector is rated 2500 lumens, from the Projector Central Review
Unfortunately lumens in 3D mode is rarely measured. A "3000 lumen" projector vs a "2000 lumen" projector doesn't really tell you anything. If you know what kind of color wheels they have, then we might be able to take a guess which actually has a brighter lamp and therefore which would likely be better in 3D mode. Without real measurements, we can only guess though.
Well, I'm possibly a rarity, but I find that the H5360 is actually TOO bright when used normally. I turn on Eco mode, and when in 3D it seems about right to me. In game set the gamma tests always show up exactly right, without having to change the settings as the game specifies. You know, the lower brightness until you can 'just barely see the icon' tests.
You've mentioned that are getting a brighter projector and are using a super high gain 2.5 screen. If you haven't had your eyes checked in awhile, I really think you owe it to yourself to do so.
Well, I'm possibly a rarity, but I find that the H5360 is actually TOO bright when used normally. I turn on Eco mode, and when in 3D it seems about right to me. In game set the gamma tests always show up exactly right, without having to change the settings as the game specifies. You know, the lower brightness until you can 'just barely see the icon' tests.
You've mentioned that are getting a brighter projector and are using a super high gain 2.5 screen. If you haven't had your eyes checked in awhile, I really think you owe it to yourself to do so.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="bo3b"]
You've mentioned that are getting a brighter projector and are using a super high gain 2.5 screen. If you haven't had your eyes checked in awhile, I really think you owe it to yourself to do so.[/quote]
Damn...! Better go get mine checked up asap then as I use the P5390 which is 30 watts brighter than the h5360 as I found the p5360 too dim when going larger than a 140" screen.
bo3b said:
You've mentioned that are getting a brighter projector and are using a super high gain 2.5 screen. If you haven't had your eyes checked in awhile, I really think you owe it to yourself to do so.
Damn...! Better go get mine checked up asap then as I use the P5390 which is 30 watts brighter than the h5360 as I found the p5360 too dim when going larger than a 140" screen.
140" is fairly massive! We can't compare brightness without also considering screen size, as that matters just as much as lumens and screen gain. If possible, we want to be comparing foot lambert. Here's a calculator that can do it:
http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/
I manually put in 698 lumens to accurately account for the H5360's brightness in 3D. Considering my 90" screen and estimating the gain from my seating position to be 2.0 (the screen itself is 2.6) gets me about 55 fL. Then considering 75% light loss from the glasses I get about 14 fL.
That's right in line with the "recommended" brightness of a movie theater. In fact I think that's outdated, as it was a recommendation that had to balance brightness with masking the strobe effect of old film projectors. Today a typical flat panel will easily be 30-50 fL.
140" is fairly massive! We can't compare brightness without also considering screen size, as that matters just as much as lumens and screen gain. If possible, we want to be comparing foot lambert. Here's a calculator that can do it:
I manually put in 698 lumens to accurately account for the H5360's brightness in 3D. Considering my 90" screen and estimating the gain from my seating position to be 2.0 (the screen itself is 2.6) gets me about 55 fL. Then considering 75% light loss from the glasses I get about 14 fL.
That's right in line with the "recommended" brightness of a movie theater. In fact I think that's outdated, as it was a recommendation that had to balance brightness with masking the strobe effect of old film projectors. Today a typical flat panel will easily be 30-50 fL.
That's an excellent point. My screen is 120" diagonal. Using that calculator and my setup, and on Best Mode, I'm getting 28 fl, which is marked as being too bright. In 3D mode, I'm getting 13fl as being good.
That's an excellent point. My screen is 120" diagonal. Using that calculator and my setup, and on Best Mode, I'm getting 28 fl, which is marked as being too bright. In 3D mode, I'm getting 13fl as being good.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Just make sure everything is configured correctly, and enter in 698 lumens (or simply 700) in the mode you want to look at. It will give you a ballpark figure, as the original review didn't fully explain under what settings and circumstances they measured 698 lumens in 3D mode.
The calculator is made by coderguy on AVS forums and he gives it what data he knows, but I don't think he's fully aware of the lumen drop in 3D mode for DLP projectors (not a fan of 3D if I remember).
Looking at your numbers bo3b, if you write in "700" in Best Mode (LAMP HIGH) I think you'll find you get 3D = 8fL. That's much better than many commercial 3D theaters, but there's plenty of room to raise brightness if you like it.
Just make sure everything is configured correctly, and enter in 698 lumens (or simply 700) in the mode you want to look at. It will give you a ballpark figure, as the original review didn't fully explain under what settings and circumstances they measured 698 lumens in 3D mode.
The calculator is made by coderguy on AVS forums and he gives it what data he knows, but I don't think he's fully aware of the lumen drop in 3D mode for DLP projectors (not a fan of 3D if I remember).
Looking at your numbers bo3b, if you write in "700" in Best Mode (LAMP HIGH) I think you'll find you get 3D = 8fL. That's much better than many commercial 3D theaters, but there's plenty of room to raise brightness if you like it.
Not sure I follow why I'd put in 700 lumens, it already has a 3D mode based on dynamic mode. The hit is calculated as 70% darker than normal mode.
[img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/61138/[/img]
Thanks for the pic!
You might notice that there is no Dynamic preset when the projector is in 3D mode. The developer here set it up according to the measured 2D lumens, and assumed that 3D brightness was only a matter of putting on the glasses.
In fact with DLP projectors, brightness is lost not only through the glasses but with putting the projector in 3D mode. 698 lumens in 3D (rounded to 700) was measured in the Projector Central review. Most of the other values in the calculator are also measurements from that review.
Why such a loss? I have heard it has to do with minimizing ghosting. DLP is lightning quick, but 3D glasses are slow LCD. It helps to have some moments of darkness while the glasses are shifting from left to right, open to closed. This would reduce ghosting but lower brightness.
The other reason may be DLP-link. For example, the Benq W1070 has an RGBRGB color wheel. In DLP-link mode, the second Red segment is used for the DLP-link flash, and therefore gets blocked by the glasses. In order to balance the loss of second Red, the second Green and Blue segments have to go dark. In this case, of what we can see, the projector has only half the lumens, plus the brightness loss from the glasses. Maybe it's not 75% on top of that, but notice that things are darker even without the glasses turned on.
You might notice that there is no Dynamic preset when the projector is in 3D mode. The developer here set it up according to the measured 2D lumens, and assumed that 3D brightness was only a matter of putting on the glasses.
In fact with DLP projectors, brightness is lost not only through the glasses but with putting the projector in 3D mode. 698 lumens in 3D (rounded to 700) was measured in the Projector Central review. Most of the other values in the calculator are also measurements from that review.
Why such a loss? I have heard it has to do with minimizing ghosting. DLP is lightning quick, but 3D glasses are slow LCD. It helps to have some moments of darkness while the glasses are shifting from left to right, open to closed. This would reduce ghosting but lower brightness.
The other reason may be DLP-link. For example, the Benq W1070 has an RGBRGB color wheel. In DLP-link mode, the second Red segment is used for the DLP-link flash, and therefore gets blocked by the glasses. In order to balance the loss of second Red, the second Green and Blue segments have to go dark. In this case, of what we can see, the projector has only half the lumens, plus the brightness loss from the glasses. Maybe it's not 75% on top of that, but notice that things are darker even without the glasses turned on.
In 3D, much of that doesn't matter though. In 3D, the Acer H5360 only uses the RGB segments for the picture you see. The remaining segments are either blocked or used for DLP-link flash. While the projector is rated 2500 lumens, from the Projector Central Review
"H5360 output drops to 698 ANSI-lumens in either the NVIDIA 3D or DLP Link modes."
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Acer_H5360_home_theater_projector_review.htm?page=Additional-Advantages
Unfortunately lumens in 3D mode is rarely measured. A "3000 lumen" projector vs a "2000 lumen" projector doesn't really tell you anything. If you know what kind of color wheels they have, then we might be able to take a guess which actually has a brighter lamp and therefore which would likely be better in 3D mode. Without real measurements, we can only guess though.
You've mentioned that are getting a brighter projector and are using a super high gain 2.5 screen. If you haven't had your eyes checked in awhile, I really think you owe it to yourself to do so.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Damn...! Better go get mine checked up asap then as I use the P5390 which is 30 watts brighter than the h5360 as I found the p5360 too dim when going larger than a 140" screen.
http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/
I manually put in 698 lumens to accurately account for the H5360's brightness in 3D. Considering my 90" screen and estimating the gain from my seating position to be 2.0 (the screen itself is 2.6) gets me about 55 fL. Then considering 75% light loss from the glasses I get about 14 fL.
That's right in line with the "recommended" brightness of a movie theater. In fact I think that's outdated, as it was a recommendation that had to balance brightness with masking the strobe effect of old film projectors. Today a typical flat panel will easily be 30-50 fL.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
The calculator is made by coderguy on AVS forums and he gives it what data he knows, but I don't think he's fully aware of the lumen drop in 3D mode for DLP projectors (not a fan of 3D if I remember).
Looking at your numbers bo3b, if you write in "700" in Best Mode (LAMP HIGH) I think you'll find you get 3D = 8fL. That's much better than many commercial 3D theaters, but there's plenty of room to raise brightness if you like it.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
You might notice that there is no Dynamic preset when the projector is in 3D mode. The developer here set it up according to the measured 2D lumens, and assumed that 3D brightness was only a matter of putting on the glasses.
In fact with DLP projectors, brightness is lost not only through the glasses but with putting the projector in 3D mode. 698 lumens in 3D (rounded to 700) was measured in the Projector Central review. Most of the other values in the calculator are also measurements from that review.
Why such a loss? I have heard it has to do with minimizing ghosting. DLP is lightning quick, but 3D glasses are slow LCD. It helps to have some moments of darkness while the glasses are shifting from left to right, open to closed. This would reduce ghosting but lower brightness.
The other reason may be DLP-link. For example, the Benq W1070 has an RGBRGB color wheel. In DLP-link mode, the second Red segment is used for the DLP-link flash, and therefore gets blocked by the glasses. In order to balance the loss of second Red, the second Green and Blue segments have to go dark. In this case, of what we can see, the projector has only half the lumens, plus the brightness loss from the glasses. Maybe it's not 75% on top of that, but notice that things are darker even without the glasses turned on.