Performance Trouble 2
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sequel to this thread: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/538677/performance-trouble/ Recently upgraded my GPU to a GTX 980, in hopes of getting better 3D vision performance, but I'm still having no luck. My performance just doesn't seem to scale properly in 3d. Results are the same in every game I have tried, for now I'll just post how Assassin's Creed Brotherhood runs. 2d-720p: 60 fps 28% GPU usage 3d-720p 43 fps 39% GPU usage According to my MSI Afterburner stats, my CPU usage actually goes down when I enable 3d. So the bottleneck seems to be on the GPU side. Should my performance really be this awful at such a low resolution?
sequel to this thread:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/538677/performance-trouble/


Recently upgraded my GPU to a GTX 980, in hopes of getting better 3D vision performance, but I'm still having no luck. My performance just doesn't seem to scale properly in 3d.
Results are the same in every game I have tried, for now I'll just post how Assassin's Creed Brotherhood runs.

2d-720p:
60 fps 28% GPU usage

3d-720p
43 fps 39% GPU usage

According to my MSI Afterburner stats, my CPU usage actually goes down when I enable 3d. So the bottleneck seems to be on the GPU side. Should my performance really be this awful at such a low resolution?

#1
Posted 11/05/2014 12:31 PM   
Something I should clarify is that I have not tested the performance on a 3d Vision display. These tests are using 3DTV play and 3D Vision Discover. Both give me the same issue, so I assume it would happen if I was to buy a 3D Vision emitter as well.
Something I should clarify is that I have not tested the performance on a 3d Vision display. These tests are using 3DTV play and 3D Vision Discover. Both give me the same issue, so I assume it would happen if I was to buy a 3D Vision emitter as well.

#2
Posted 11/06/2014 12:47 AM   
What's your CPU usage? With that i7 you have, it's got 4 physical cores. Most games don't take much advantage of multiple cores, so 25% CPU loading is 100% on a single core, and there's your bottleneck.
What's your CPU usage? With that i7 you have, it's got 4 physical cores. Most games don't take much advantage of multiple cores, so 25% CPU loading is 100% on a single core, and there's your bottleneck.

#3
Posted 11/06/2014 03:51 AM   
Depends on the game, but usually averages around 30 - 70% per core. As I said, oddly enough the CPU usage goes down when in 3D.
Depends on the game, but usually averages around 30 - 70% per core. As I said, oddly enough the CPU usage goes down when in 3D.

#4
Posted 11/07/2014 09:15 AM   
One thing to keep in mind is that every framerate tool I know of measures 3d framerate on a per-eye basis. So when you see 43FPS, that's for each eye. So the actual number of frames rendered per second in that scenario is 86 - which is higher than your 60fps in 2d.
One thing to keep in mind is that every framerate tool I know of measures 3d framerate on a per-eye basis. So when you see 43FPS, that's for each eye. So the actual number of frames rendered per second in that scenario is 86 - which is higher than your 60fps in 2d.

#5
Posted 11/07/2014 10:07 AM   
Also worth noting that in many games, SLI scaling tends to be quite good. So you may be better off selling/returning the 980, and getting a pair of 970s instead.
Also worth noting that in many games, SLI scaling tends to be quite good. So you may be better off selling/returning the 980, and getting a pair of 970s instead.

#6
Posted 11/07/2014 10:08 AM   
I might actually try that. As a quick test I also tried the trial of Tridef, using it I get a perfect 60 FPS on the same games that lag on 3D Vision, GPU usage scales properly. The main issue there is that Tridef compatibility seems to be a lot lower. If SLI 970s doesn't work out, I think I might just give up on 3D gaming, as much as I hate to lose the depth.
I might actually try that.
As a quick test I also tried the trial of Tridef, using it I get a perfect 60 FPS on the same games that lag on 3D Vision, GPU usage scales properly. The main issue there is that Tridef compatibility seems to be a lot lower. If SLI 970s doesn't work out, I think I might just give up on 3D gaming, as much as I hate to lose the depth.

#7
Posted 11/08/2014 09:29 PM   
as an extra note, I noticed something else while testing. Even in the DX11 games using Nvidia's Fake 3D, my performance is pretty awful compared to 2D. Yet when using Tridef Power3D I once again get a perfect 60. Could it have anything to do with the fact I use 3DTV play? I honestly don't understand what could be causing this performance.
as an extra note, I noticed something else while testing. Even in the DX11 games using Nvidia's Fake 3D, my performance is pretty awful compared to 2D. Yet when using Tridef Power3D I once again get a perfect 60.
Could it have anything to do with the fact I use 3DTV play? I honestly don't understand what could be causing this performance.

#8
Posted 11/08/2014 09:49 PM   
What OS are your running? Win 8.1 has known issues with 3D. In any case it would be worth trying a clean install of Win7 as an alternate boot and a clean environment as the known best case for 3D today. If that gives you problems, you'll know it's hardware. If not, you'll know it's something in your software stack. Also, normally I'd agree that SLI is the way to go, but recently the drivers have broken several SLI setups, and it tends to be tweaky, even on a good day. You should definitely be getting better performance than that on a 980. Don't run AC games though, they run like ass. Use Just Cause 2 as a good quality test case.
What OS are your running? Win 8.1 has known issues with 3D.

In any case it would be worth trying a clean install of Win7 as an alternate boot and a clean environment as the known best case for 3D today. If that gives you problems, you'll know it's hardware. If not, you'll know it's something in your software stack.


Also, normally I'd agree that SLI is the way to go, but recently the drivers have broken several SLI setups, and it tends to be tweaky, even on a good day.

You should definitely be getting better performance than that on a 980. Don't run AC games though, they run like ass. Use Just Cause 2 as a good quality test case.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#9
Posted 11/09/2014 01:53 AM   
Yeah, I am currently on Windows 8.1 at the moment, though when I made that first topic I was on Windows 7. I'll give Dual Booting and Just Cause 2 a try, thank you. I just don't understand why Tridef works perfectly, yet with 3D Vision I can't even run a simple game like Sonic Generations at full speed. I wish Nvidia had some actual competition in the 3d space.
Yeah, I am currently on Windows 8.1 at the moment, though when I made that first topic I was on Windows 7. I'll give Dual Booting and Just Cause 2 a try, thank you.
I just don't understand why Tridef works perfectly, yet with 3D Vision I can't even run a simple game like Sonic Generations at full speed. I wish Nvidia had some actual competition in the 3d space.

#10
Posted 11/09/2014 02:44 AM   
Absolutely no difference under Windows 7. Guess I'll be trying SLI. Before I take the time to do that, is there ANYTHING other than 3d Vision and Tridef on the market? Any form of competition at all? Anything up and coming? The current state of 3D gaming saddens me so much.
Absolutely no difference under Windows 7. Guess I'll be trying SLI.
Before I take the time to do that, is there ANYTHING other than 3d Vision and Tridef on the market? Any form of competition at all? Anything up and coming? The current state of 3D gaming saddens me so much.

#11
Posted 11/18/2014 08:07 AM   
[quote="keklio"]Yeah, I am currently on Windows 8.1 at the moment, though when I made that first topic I was on Windows 7. I'll give Dual Booting and Just Cause 2 a try, thank you. I just don't understand why Tridef works perfectly, yet with 3D Vision I can't even run a simple game like Sonic Generations at full speed. I wish Nvidia had some actual competition in the 3d space.[/quote]Are you maybe confusing true-3D with fake-3D? Tridef has a mode that is fake-3D, also known as z-buffer, and NVidia has a version called Compatibility Mode. fake-3D does not take extra horsepower to run, because it fakes up a 3D image by perspective, like the awful 2D conversion stuff for movies. True-3D takes twice as much horsepower, because the scene is literally rendered twice, once for each eye, from slightly different angles. True-3D generally gives you a far superior 3D image though, and allows for high-convergence. To answer your last question- nope. 3D Vision is presently the best 3D experience on the market. Up and coming is VR with Oculus et.al. but that's at least a year out, and presently not that great.
keklio said:Yeah, I am currently on Windows 8.1 at the moment, though when I made that first topic I was on Windows 7. I'll give Dual Booting and Just Cause 2 a try, thank you.
I just don't understand why Tridef works perfectly, yet with 3D Vision I can't even run a simple game like Sonic Generations at full speed. I wish Nvidia had some actual competition in the 3d space.
Are you maybe confusing true-3D with fake-3D? Tridef has a mode that is fake-3D, also known as z-buffer, and NVidia has a version called Compatibility Mode.

fake-3D does not take extra horsepower to run, because it fakes up a 3D image by perspective, like the awful 2D conversion stuff for movies.

True-3D takes twice as much horsepower, because the scene is literally rendered twice, once for each eye, from slightly different angles.

True-3D generally gives you a far superior 3D image though, and allows for high-convergence.


To answer your last question- nope. 3D Vision is presently the best 3D experience on the market. Up and coming is VR with Oculus et.al. but that's at least a year out, and presently not that great.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#12
Posted 11/18/2014 10:19 AM   
Have you tried games other than Sonic Generations? I haven't played it, but I see on the Helixmodblogspot, they mention fake 60fps. http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2012/03/sonic-generations.html Also you mention that you are using a 3D HDTV as well as 3D HDTV. Certain 3D HDTVs have ungodly lag, some can be improved by things like renaming the HDMI input to PC or using a specific HDMI input as specified by the manufacturer. You want to be sure that you have any post processing effects like interpolation turned of as well. When playing Sonic Generations are you indded using 3DTV Play or the native built in 3D support? My advice is that you should try some of the community recommended games that are known to proform well.
Have you tried games other than Sonic Generations?

I haven't played it, but I see on the Helixmodblogspot, they mention fake 60fps.


http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2012/03/sonic-generations.html


Also you mention that you are using a 3D HDTV as well as 3D HDTV. Certain 3D HDTVs have ungodly lag, some can be improved by things like renaming the HDMI input to PC or using a specific HDMI input as specified by the manufacturer. You want to be sure that you have any post processing effects like interpolation turned of as well.

When playing Sonic Generations are you indded using 3DTV Play or the native built in 3D support?

My advice is that you should try some of the community recommended games that are known to proform well.

#13
Posted 11/18/2014 02:14 PM   
[quote="bo3b"][quote="keklio"]Yeah, I am currently on Windows 8.1 at the moment, though when I made that first topic I was on Windows 7. I'll give Dual Booting and Just Cause 2 a try, thank you. I just don't understand why Tridef works perfectly, yet with 3D Vision I can't even run a simple game like Sonic Generations at full speed. I wish Nvidia had some actual competition in the 3d space.[/quote]Are you maybe confusing true-3D with fake-3D? Tridef has a mode that is fake-3D, also known as z-buffer, and NVidia has a version called Compatibility Mode. fake-3D does not take extra horsepower to run, because it fakes up a 3D image by perspective, like the awful 2D conversion stuff for movies. True-3D takes twice as much horsepower, because the scene is literally rendered twice, once for each eye, from slightly different angles. True-3D generally gives you a far superior 3D image though, and allows for high-convergence. To answer your last question- nope. 3D Vision is presently the best 3D experience on the market. Up and coming is VR with Oculus et.al. but that's at least a year out, and presently not that great.[/quote] When testing Tridef, I made sure I was not using their Power3d feature. Which I honestly found to be even worse than Nvidia's Compatibility mode 3D. The true 3d in Tridef runs much better than 3D Vision for me, which I just find incredibly odd. This wasn't the case back in 2011, when I first got into 3D gaming. [quote="D-Man11"]hen playing Sonic Generations are you indded using 3DTV Play or the native built in 3D support? [/quote] I have tried both 3D Vision and the built in 3D. The built in Side by Side 3D gives me proper, 60 FPS performance. It also true 3d, definitely not like Power3d or Compatibility Mode. 3D Vision gives me the same odd performance as it does with every other game.
bo3b said:
keklio said:Yeah, I am currently on Windows 8.1 at the moment, though when I made that first topic I was on Windows 7. I'll give Dual Booting and Just Cause 2 a try, thank you.
I just don't understand why Tridef works perfectly, yet with 3D Vision I can't even run a simple game like Sonic Generations at full speed. I wish Nvidia had some actual competition in the 3d space.
Are you maybe confusing true-3D with fake-3D? Tridef has a mode that is fake-3D, also known as z-buffer, and NVidia has a version called Compatibility Mode.

fake-3D does not take extra horsepower to run, because it fakes up a 3D image by perspective, like the awful 2D conversion stuff for movies.

True-3D takes twice as much horsepower, because the scene is literally rendered twice, once for each eye, from slightly different angles.

True-3D generally gives you a far superior 3D image though, and allows for high-convergence.


To answer your last question- nope. 3D Vision is presently the best 3D experience on the market. Up and coming is VR with Oculus et.al. but that's at least a year out, and presently not that great.


When testing Tridef, I made sure I was not using their Power3d feature. Which I honestly found to be even worse than Nvidia's Compatibility mode 3D. The true 3d in Tridef runs much better than 3D Vision for me, which I just find incredibly odd. This wasn't the case back in 2011, when I first got into 3D gaming.

D-Man11 said:hen playing Sonic Generations are you indded using 3DTV Play or the native built in 3D support?

I have tried both 3D Vision and the built in 3D.
The built in Side by Side 3D gives me proper, 60 FPS performance. It also true 3d, definitely not like Power3d or Compatibility Mode. 3D Vision gives me the same odd performance as it does with every other game.

#14
Posted 11/19/2014 10:30 AM   
@OP, Maybe you can create a restore point in windows and then try the EDID override for your TV? That worked out pretty well for me and then you might be able to do 1080p 60fps
@OP,

Maybe you can create a restore point in windows and then try the EDID override for your TV? That worked out pretty well for me and then you might be able to do 1080p 60fps

#15
Posted 11/19/2014 03:18 PM   
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