Do we still want to play in 3D ?
  1 / 5    
I mean we bought the glasses and a 3d screen but does it serve well ? When I see the new games with they rating for 3d i'm wondering if i bought this stuff for something. Only a few games are 3d Ready ans the rest are for the most good, fair etc... Doesn't Nvidia have to work hand to hand with games devs, make they product in the front to convince devs to make they games 3d Ready, the benefit they can get with it. You give money to distributors so they put your video "Nividia the way it means to be played" can't you do the same so they games are rated excellent or 3d ready !!!
I mean we bought the glasses and a 3d screen but does it serve well ?

When I see the new games with they rating for 3d i'm wondering if i bought this stuff for something.

Only a few games are 3d Ready ans the rest are for the most good, fair etc...

Doesn't Nvidia have to work hand to hand with games devs, make they product in the front to convince devs to make they games 3d Ready, the benefit they can get with it.

You give money to distributors so they put your video "Nividia the way it means to be played" can't you do the same so they games are rated excellent or 3d ready !!!

#1
Posted 11/25/2012 02:16 PM   
Thanks to Helix a lot of the best games are very playable or 3d ready , so I'm in no lack of 3d games to play. The worst thing you can do is listen to nvidia ratings, read this forums and check Helix site instead for the games that work well in 3d. However, I agree that Nvidia is doing a great disservice to their own product, they are not pushing the technology at all, even Andrew from Nvidia has been suspiciously missing in action since the forums came back, I fear that we're left alone here and if Helix doesn't get a dx11 wrapper to work, 3d gaming on PC is going to get some tough years ahead.
Thanks to Helix a lot of the best games are very playable or 3d ready , so I'm in no lack of 3d games to play. The worst thing you can do is listen to nvidia ratings, read this forums and check Helix site instead for the games that work well in 3d.

However, I agree that Nvidia is doing a great disservice to their own product, they are not pushing the technology at all, even Andrew from Nvidia has been suspiciously missing in action since the forums came back, I fear that we're left alone here and if Helix doesn't get a dx11 wrapper to work, 3d gaming on PC is going to get some tough years ahead.

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#2
Posted 11/25/2012 03:19 PM   
Oh.. I hope nvidia gets their act together. I don't want to play games without 3d anymore. I will, but when I have to play in 2d, the realism is just gone now. 2d is just a HUGE reduction in graphics. I hope nvidia will do better for the new dx11 era of games that are coming. I built my current pc specifically to run new games IN 3D! Nvidia, step up ur game please, for the sake of those of us who love your product.
Oh.. I hope nvidia gets their act together. I don't want to play games without 3d anymore. I will, but when I have to play in 2d, the realism is just gone now. 2d is just a HUGE reduction in graphics. I hope nvidia will do better for the new dx11 era of games that are coming. I built my current pc specifically to run new games IN 3D! Nvidia, step up ur game please, for the sake of those of us who love your product.

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#3
Posted 11/25/2012 05:23 PM   
For many games the entire PC platform is an afterthought. We're lucky to get MOUSE support on those, never mind some niche thing like 3D Vision. That could be changing in a year or two when the next XBox comes out. That should have the power to push 3D pretty well, which means it isn't just for a niche market on the smallest platform. It's likely to be using DirectX 11.1 or 12, though, so we might get forced over to Win8 to get the benifits.
For many games the entire PC platform is an afterthought. We're lucky to get MOUSE support on those, never mind some niche thing like 3D Vision.

That could be changing in a year or two when the next XBox comes out. That should have the power to push 3D pretty well, which means it isn't just for a niche market on the smallest platform. It's likely to be using DirectX 11.1 or 12, though, so we might get forced over to Win8 to get the benifits.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.

-- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"

#4
Posted 11/25/2012 08:32 PM   
More 3D games each year then last. *shrug* Not that its a bad thing. Everyones just got more pickey. People used to praise games like Bioshock 2(I have no idea why), Resident evil 5(though its good now that convergence can be unlocked), Mass effect 2, GTA 4. 9 3D vision ready games were released this year(though tbh, most were bad games). Thats kind of a lot. That not including Doom 3 BFG which is 3d vision ready though isnt labeled it. Or games that added 3D renderer that offered great 3d experience but not "ready" Lego Batman 2, Sleeping Dogs I still think they could be doing a heck of a lot more though.... Especially due to helix, these last 3 months have been most successful for 3d vision yet, not quite sure why people are panicking....
More 3D games each year then last. *shrug*
Not that its a bad thing. Everyones just got more pickey. People used to praise games like Bioshock 2(I have no idea why), Resident evil 5(though its good now that convergence can be unlocked), Mass effect 2, GTA 4.
9 3D vision ready games were released this year(though tbh, most were bad games). Thats kind of a lot.
That not including Doom 3 BFG which is 3d vision ready though isnt labeled it.
Or games that added 3D renderer that offered great 3d experience but not "ready" Lego Batman 2, Sleeping Dogs
I still think they could be doing a heck of a lot more though....

Especially due to helix, these last 3 months have been most successful for 3d vision yet, not quite sure why people are panicking....

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#5
Posted 11/25/2012 09:00 PM   
Do we still want to play in 3D ? Answer: HELL YEAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! :) Once you play a game in the 3rd dimension, you never wanna go back!!!!!! ;)
Do we still want to play in 3D ?

Answer: HELL YEAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! :) Once you play a game in the 3rd dimension, you never wanna go back!!!!!! ;)

#6
Posted 11/25/2012 09:39 PM   
Sure we want but Nvidia have to react to get the games working fine with 3dvision !!!
Sure we want but Nvidia have to react to get the games working fine with 3dvision !!!

#7
Posted 11/26/2012 05:15 PM   
This ... and that, and that.... First we need BETTER 3D monitors. The latest "3Dvison" approved Acer HN274HBbmiid and Asus VG278HE are a laugh in the face to everybody who takes S3D serious. As long as the choice is so limited first of all we need wider support of displays that [i]could[/i] be used for S3D to build up a community. So, We need generic CRT mode back with configurable timings and shuter sync down to 75Hz We need QWGA@120Hz We need frame-packed output over HDMI with 1080p@30Hz We need interlaced 1920/540 @120Hz over DVI and HDMI We need SBS / Top/Bottom We need OcculusRift support (dual output with warp shaders) (I don't even say we need support for quad buffered OGL ;) - btw. everythings hinting towards the Geforce driver blocking it not the 3Dvision driver) So it's rather "Yes, we want! But, no, we CAN'T!"
This ... and that, and that....
First we need BETTER 3D monitors. The latest "3Dvison" approved Acer HN274HBbmiid and Asus VG278HE are a laugh in the face to everybody who takes S3D serious. As long as the choice is so limited first of all we need wider support of displays that could be used for S3D to build up a community. So,
We need generic CRT mode back with configurable timings and shuter sync down to 75Hz
We need QWGA@120Hz
We need frame-packed output over HDMI with 1080p@30Hz
We need interlaced 1920/540 @120Hz over DVI and HDMI
We need SBS / Top/Bottom
We need OcculusRift support (dual output with warp shaders)


(I don't even say we need support for quad buffered OGL ;) - btw. everythings hinting towards the Geforce driver blocking it not the 3Dvision driver)

So it's rather "Yes, we want! But, no, we CAN'T!"

#8
Posted 11/26/2012 07:15 PM   
I have been a 3d gaming lover for 7/8 years, and I can not play a 2D game, I always play in 3D. I do not have a xbox or psx just because do not have 3D, and I hope future consoles add 3d support, and then I will say "good by Nvidia". In fact Nvidia has provided me this great 3D experience, but I recognize since the begining has always given a poor support. I still can remember when I had to through away my nice CRT monitor because a marketing movement, and why I had to move to Windows Vista forced by the situation. A lot of people had a lot of money invested in hardware and Nvidia gave then a kick in the ass without any problem, without any sense, only to make money. Yes, I love 3D, but I do not love Nvidia, and I feel totally unsafe when something goes wrong, I only expect not to have bad luck. Thanks god some people here are qualificated to make some fixed for important games, and may be Nvidia is not happy with this, may be it is considered as a demonstration of the poor interest or the low qualification of the Nvidia team itself, I do not know. It is incredible that a thread as important as the one we all know is not even stuck, and no mention in the Nvidia game information at all. In all these years I have only seen Nvidia members writting here when Nvidia has a product to launch, when there is money in the air, supposedly to promise some kind of support and good news. The driver is just the same as it was a lot of years ago, and we all know very well how it would be easyly improved, but nothing. Well, as you can see nothing good to say, but it is nothing new. I love 3D, and Nvidia loves money.
I have been a 3d gaming lover for 7/8 years, and I can not play a 2D game, I always play in 3D. I do not have a xbox or psx just because do not have 3D, and I hope future consoles add 3d support, and then I will say "good by Nvidia". In fact Nvidia has provided me this great 3D experience, but I recognize since the begining has always given a poor support. I still can remember when I had to through away my nice CRT monitor because a marketing movement, and why I had to move to Windows Vista forced by the situation. A lot of people had a lot of money invested in hardware and Nvidia gave then a kick in the ass without any problem, without any sense, only to make money. Yes, I love 3D, but I do not love Nvidia, and I feel totally unsafe when something goes wrong, I only expect not to have bad luck. Thanks god some people here are qualificated to make some fixed for important games, and may be Nvidia is not happy with this, may be it is considered as a demonstration of the poor interest or the low qualification of the Nvidia team itself, I do not know. It is incredible that a thread as important as the one we all know is not even stuck, and no mention in the Nvidia game information at all. In all these years I have only seen Nvidia members writting here when Nvidia has a product to launch, when there is money in the air, supposedly to promise some kind of support and good news. The driver is just the same as it was a lot of years ago, and we all know very well how it would be easyly improved, but nothing.

Well, as you can see nothing good to say, but it is nothing new. I love 3D, and Nvidia loves money.

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#9
Posted 11/26/2012 08:11 PM   
I can't go back to 2D games. My expectations are that games have to be 3D playable. I don't care how good the reviews are, if it isn't 3D, I forget about it. While 3D isn't flawless, it's too bad that many games have issues. This also show the lack of care or interest from game developers. Thankfully many PC titles are moddable and the most notable one is the Helix DLL wrapper. Without this a lot of our 3D game choices would be limited. I don't blame Nvidia for the lack of support since choices in game development is out of their control. I'm sure Nvidia has many legal implications to prevent them from simply "hacking" or "modding" a game. I only hope that 3D gaming goes forward and the market share increases. We need motivated game delevopers to make the most of this technology. What amazes me is many of Bethesda's game titles are not 3D supported, but with some mods and 3D fixes, these are some of the most immersive game titles that play astonishingly well in 3D. It'll be interesting to see where this market goes...
I can't go back to 2D games. My expectations are that games have to be 3D playable. I don't care how good the reviews are, if it isn't 3D, I forget about it. While 3D isn't flawless, it's too bad that many games have issues. This also show the lack of care or interest from game developers. Thankfully many PC titles are moddable and the most notable one is the Helix DLL wrapper. Without this a lot of our 3D game choices would be limited. I don't blame Nvidia for the lack of support since choices in game development is out of their control. I'm sure Nvidia has many legal implications to prevent them from simply "hacking" or "modding" a game. I only hope that 3D gaming goes forward and the market share increases. We need motivated game delevopers to make the most of this technology. What amazes me is many of Bethesda's game titles are not 3D supported, but with some mods and 3D fixes, these are some of the most immersive game titles that play astonishingly well in 3D. It'll be interesting to see where this market goes...

#10
Posted 11/26/2012 11:33 PM   
Now wait a minute - I can lay a lot of things at the feet of NVIDIA but a lot of the things you folks are going on about aren't their fault at all. Not enough monitor variety? Not enough interest from game developers? That's not an NVIDIA problem, that's an S3D popularity problem. You've all heard it a thousand times: "3D is just a gimmick" That's what the real problem is. And no, it is not NVIDIA's responsibility to fix that. NVIDIA is a company - it's their responsibility to cash in on it if it gets popular. Nothing more. They might invest in marketing to make it more popular but they will ONLY do that if they think that investment will return more money to them in the long run. The way some of you are talking, you seem to think NVIDIA has some sort of moral imperative to make S3D popular. Right now, there really isn't any serious competition to 3D Vision. If you want to play in 3D, you're probably going to be getting 3D Vision. That means adding more/better features and support isn't going to give you many more sales. Thus, we barely get any support. To get more features, we need to see competition. But there isn't going to be any competition unless the market size grows. And the market size isn't going to go anywhere until that stupid "only a gimmick" myth dies a fiery death. And if you want that blockade to die then I suggest that you stop whining and go out and start changing some minds.
Now wait a minute - I can lay a lot of things at the feet of NVIDIA but a lot of the things you folks are going on about aren't their fault at all. Not enough monitor variety? Not enough interest from game developers? That's not an NVIDIA problem, that's an S3D popularity problem.

You've all heard it a thousand times: "3D is just a gimmick"

That's what the real problem is. And no, it is not NVIDIA's responsibility to fix that. NVIDIA is a company - it's their responsibility to cash in on it if it gets popular. Nothing more. They might invest in marketing to make it more popular but they will ONLY do that if they think that investment will return more money to them in the long run. The way some of you are talking, you seem to think NVIDIA has some sort of moral imperative to make S3D popular.

Right now, there really isn't any serious competition to 3D Vision. If you want to play in 3D, you're probably going to be getting 3D Vision. That means adding more/better features and support isn't going to give you many more sales. Thus, we barely get any support.

To get more features, we need to see competition. But there isn't going to be any competition unless the market size grows. And the market size isn't going to go anywhere until that stupid "only a gimmick" myth dies a fiery death. And if you want that blockade to die then I suggest that you stop whining and go out and start changing some minds.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.

-- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"

#11
Posted 11/27/2012 01:19 AM   
While I do think S3D is more popular now then ever. I think there is a lot of confusion because of Helix and now people see they have the ability to play games that normally we didnt have the option to before. I dont think the $ is there to do the things that people want. I think they should be focusing on improving the engine in a way similiar to tridef(with a touch of helix) hopefully to the point where they can rely on the community to improve support of games. Expecting Nvidia to full rewrite shader code is unrealistic and not legal(not there property and they are profiting). Improving the engine to the point where games need little code changes rather then full overhauls to have support would definetly offer incentive to developers. I think its doubtful that anything will happen unless someone shakes things up. I think NVIDIA needs to strongly consider outsourcing the software aspect of 3D vision or make engine compatible to the point where they can rely on community and move away from driver inclusion. I hope NVIDIA knows the people who are improving 3d vision are not for doing it for them but the community and if a better option ever comes along. It will be taken....gladly.
While I do think S3D is more popular now then ever. I think there is a lot of confusion because of Helix and now people see they have the ability to play games that normally we didnt have the option to before. I dont think the $ is there to do the things that people want. I think they should be focusing on improving the engine in a way similiar to tridef(with a touch of helix) hopefully to the point where they can rely on the community to improve support of games. Expecting Nvidia to full rewrite shader code is unrealistic and not legal(not there property and they are profiting).

Improving the engine to the point where games need little code changes rather then full overhauls to have support would definetly offer incentive to developers. I think its doubtful that anything will happen unless someone shakes things up. I think NVIDIA needs to strongly consider outsourcing the software aspect of 3D vision or make engine compatible to the point where they can rely on community and move away from driver inclusion.

I hope NVIDIA knows the people who are improving 3d vision are not for doing it for them but the community and if a better option ever comes along. It will be taken....gladly.

Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com

If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com

#12
Posted 11/27/2012 03:08 AM   
Seriously bless you Eqzitara and Helix, without you guys 3D would suck on the pc. I have been 3D gaming for about a year and a half and love it...... when it works right. Without you and Helix, most games would be worthless in 3D due to all the shader issues and rendering problems, nvidia as much as i love there hardware does little to nothing to support there own service on 3D. Now dont get me wrong, im glad nvidia at least offers this service but they really need to be working on improving these issues or working with the developers to make sure games launch right. I know there are more 3D games now then ever but most require you or Helix to fix them and i dont think thats right for a company to borderline rely on a customer to fix there service, if i did that my business would have closed years ago.
Seriously bless you Eqzitara and Helix, without you guys 3D would suck on the pc. I have been 3D gaming for about a year and a half and love it...... when it works right. Without you and Helix, most games would be worthless in 3D due to all the shader issues and rendering problems, nvidia as much as i love there hardware does little to nothing to support there own service on 3D. Now dont get me wrong, im glad nvidia at least offers this service but they really need to be working on improving these issues or working with the developers to make sure games launch right. I know there are more 3D games now then ever but most require you or Helix to fix them and i dont think thats right for a company to borderline rely on a customer to fix there service, if i did that my business would have closed years ago.

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#13
Posted 11/27/2012 12:58 PM   
ZlothX: I don't know if you referring to me as well, but regarding "not enough monitor variety" I asume so. First of all: I am NOT accusing nvidia running a business for money in any concern. Not. At. All. I DO want them to make money with what they sell best and that is: grafic cards - not shutter glasses, not monitors, no, graphic cards - and drivers. While I agree that 3Dvision (being part of their geforce drivers)is the best solution for gaming it is far from being the most common solution incorporated into 3D capable displays, screens and projectors and looking around this will be hard to argue against. So, why is that? If you ask me nvidia is aparently asking too much of a prime for certifying monitors to be 3D Vision ready. Why should a monitor manufacturer go the expensive 3Dvision route and NOT HDMI1.4a which is a must have today anyway incl. (cheaper) affiliated license fees and will support [i]everything[/i] else out there right out of the box (plus perhaps nvidia customers) and also reaches a wider clientel? And even if they do, it's a sad fact that the Topp of the Line 27" monitors (aforementioned Acer and Asus models) cannot live up to the competition in terms of picture quality. It is, frankly speaking ridiculous, that these monitors with latest 3Dvision technology (Lightboost and in case of the Acer even bundled with 3Dvision2 glasses) take the nvidia only framesequential 120 Hz FULL HD signal and convert that down to inferior checkerboard with effectively halfed resolution. Where is the benefit for the customer getting an insanely overpriced monitor if any HDMI1.4a device with FPR offers similar quality at a much more attractive price point? Where is the advantage getting nvidia? It's easy to see that this is NO good promotion for 3Dvision technology and will put customers rather off than creating momentum by gathering new adopters. So there's a plethora of HDMI 1.4a devices and although this is far from being the best S3D experience it is yet the most common. Still, there are computer monitors with HDMI 1.4a input that will not enable 3DTV play to similar reasons as the EDID treveals them as monitors and not TVs... But also, there in fact ARE better 120Hz screens that are not supported just because the manufacturers don't see a reason to pay nvidia licenses for a feature the customer may not want. So all in all: [i]if[/i] nvidia could jump over their own shadow and natively support all 3D capable monitors out there natively their solution as being superior to the competition would find far more users to embrace it. If somebody is interested in S3D on PC or TV one then would rather get an nvidia than an AMD grafic solution, which simply means an advantage over competition and better profits for their core product sector. I strongly believe that the increase in sales just due to global S3D support right in the drivers (that neither competitor does have) would easily compensate and exceed the losses in licenses gathered from monitor manufacturers. Looking at the market you will just find a couple of them with ever declining numbers. I daresay in one year there will be NOT A SINGLE nvidia ready solution left and what profit will be left then? Also from a marketing perspective it is always preferable to keep the chain as short as possible. In the end it's going to be the customer who is paying for 3D solution. If nvidia would shorten the path: user - monitor manufacturer - license fees - nvidia to user - nvidia it would reduce friction and losses with better margin for the same product. They would not need to manufacture glasses (hardly a good profit on those anyway) and leave everything not their core technology to whoever fell that's their market. Also by providing native support without license fees they would make more manufacrturers consider making their products 3DVision ready which means more monitors for nvidia card users to pick from, again, leading to increasing sales of cards. So explicitedly [i]for the sake of profit[/i] nvidia should open up 3Dvision as suggested above.....
ZlothX: I don't know if you referring to me as well, but regarding "not enough monitor variety" I asume so.

First of all: I am NOT accusing nvidia running a business for money in any concern. Not. At. All. I DO want them to make money with what they sell best and that is: grafic cards - not shutter glasses, not monitors, no, graphic cards - and drivers.

While I agree that 3Dvision (being part of their geforce drivers)is the best solution for gaming it is far from being the most common solution incorporated into 3D capable displays, screens and projectors and looking around this will be hard to argue against.

So, why is that? If you ask me nvidia is aparently asking too much of a prime for certifying monitors to be 3D Vision ready.

Why should a monitor manufacturer go the expensive 3Dvision route and NOT HDMI1.4a which is a must have today anyway incl. (cheaper) affiliated license fees and will support everything else out there right out of the box (plus perhaps nvidia customers) and also reaches a wider clientel?

And even if they do, it's a sad fact that the Topp of the Line 27" monitors (aforementioned Acer and Asus models) cannot live up to the competition in terms of picture quality. It is, frankly speaking ridiculous, that these monitors with latest 3Dvision technology (Lightboost and in case of the Acer even bundled with 3Dvision2 glasses) take the nvidia only framesequential 120 Hz FULL HD signal and convert that down to inferior checkerboard with effectively halfed resolution.


Where is the benefit for the customer getting an insanely overpriced monitor if any HDMI1.4a device with FPR offers similar quality at a much more attractive price point?
Where is the advantage getting nvidia?
It's easy to see that this is NO good promotion for 3Dvision technology and will put customers rather off than creating momentum by gathering new adopters.

So there's a plethora of HDMI 1.4a devices and although this is far from being the best S3D experience it is yet the most common. Still, there are computer monitors with HDMI 1.4a input that will not enable 3DTV play to similar reasons as the EDID treveals them as monitors and not TVs...


But also, there in fact ARE better 120Hz screens that are not supported just because the manufacturers don't see a reason to pay nvidia licenses for a feature the customer may not want.

So all in all: if nvidia could jump over their own shadow and natively support all 3D capable monitors out there natively their solution as being superior to the competition would find far more users to embrace it. If somebody is interested in S3D on PC or TV one then would rather get an nvidia than an AMD grafic solution, which simply means an advantage over competition and better profits for their core product sector. I strongly believe that the increase in sales just due to global S3D support right in the drivers (that neither competitor does have) would easily compensate and exceed the losses in licenses gathered from monitor manufacturers. Looking at the market you will just find a couple of them with ever declining numbers. I daresay in one year there will be NOT A SINGLE nvidia ready solution left and what profit will be left then? Also from a marketing perspective it is always preferable to keep the chain as short as possible. In the end it's going to be the customer who is paying for 3D solution. If nvidia would shorten the path: user - monitor manufacturer - license fees - nvidia to user - nvidia it would reduce friction and losses with better margin for the same product. They would not need to manufacture glasses (hardly a good profit on those anyway) and leave everything not their core technology to whoever fell that's their market.

Also by providing native support without license fees they would make more manufacrturers consider making their products 3DVision ready which means more monitors for nvidia card users to pick from, again, leading to increasing sales of cards.

So explicitedly for the sake of profit nvidia should open up 3Dvision as suggested above.....

#14
Posted 11/27/2012 01:43 PM   
+1 @quadrophoeniX
+1 @quadrophoeniX

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#15
Posted 11/27/2012 03:48 PM   
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