I'm done.
I'm done with the 3D stereo scene. I've been involved in it since 1996, worked with anaglyph, LCD, HMD, and lenticular systems.

There has never been any real amount of support for the technology by any company. Invariably it is the enthusiasts at a company that convince their bosses that the technology is worth looking at, but when that individual can no longer carry the weight, the technology support falters.

Why post this here? I guess because I want to voice my frustrations to my peers.

I recently wanted to see what the current state of affairs was. I tracked down the latest drivers for my NVidia 7900 (that was no easy task, the information isn't even publicized by NVidia and their search engine is terrible). I tracked down drivers by KindDragon who again is an enthusiast and has moved on to other things. Etc.

So I eventually narrow down what I need (162.50) and go the the uninstall/install process. And then I find that the drivers are buggy, they crash, they have poor performance, and they leave artifacts on the display.

It's just not worth it. I like to play to have fun and see cool stuff, but you can only do so much and after 11 years of watching this technology never move past its adolescence. I'm just tired of waiting and hoping.

I've decided that until the 3D stereo tech is supported out of the box, in every latest driver I can download for my video card, I'm just not going to deal with it. And I'm guessing that game developers aren't going to bother with it either, because it is such a minor feature that only a very small percentage of users care about. Chicken and egg.

Which is sad, because I think it is really cool and has such great potential.
I'm done with the 3D stereo scene. I've been involved in it since 1996, worked with anaglyph, LCD, HMD, and lenticular systems.



There has never been any real amount of support for the technology by any company. Invariably it is the enthusiasts at a company that convince their bosses that the technology is worth looking at, but when that individual can no longer carry the weight, the technology support falters.



Why post this here? I guess because I want to voice my frustrations to my peers.



I recently wanted to see what the current state of affairs was. I tracked down the latest drivers for my NVidia 7900 (that was no easy task, the information isn't even publicized by NVidia and their search engine is terrible). I tracked down drivers by KindDragon who again is an enthusiast and has moved on to other things. Etc.



So I eventually narrow down what I need (162.50) and go the the uninstall/install process. And then I find that the drivers are buggy, they crash, they have poor performance, and they leave artifacts on the display.



It's just not worth it. I like to play to have fun and see cool stuff, but you can only do so much and after 11 years of watching this technology never move past its adolescence. I'm just tired of waiting and hoping.



I've decided that until the 3D stereo tech is supported out of the box, in every latest driver I can download for my video card, I'm just not going to deal with it. And I'm guessing that game developers aren't going to bother with it either, because it is such a minor feature that only a very small percentage of users care about. Chicken and egg.



Which is sad, because I think it is really cool and has such great potential.

#1
Posted 01/11/2008 07:21 PM   
Holy cow, Batman! Where did this come from?!?! /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />

There are so many big name players now! FINALLY!

Samsung, Mitsubishi, iZ3D, TDVision, Spectron IQ, Kerner, Zalman, NVIDIA, DDD, Phillips, Miracube, and more that I can't even name yet.

After waiting 10+ years, and all this progress happening in the last few months, NOW you want to give up?!?

If it's the NVIDIA news you read at MTBS that has you all wound up, take it easy. The industry is changing for the better, I assure you. We are even starting to see game engines natively support S-3D (e.g. Unigine), and there is so much cooking right now, you should really be feeling much more hopeful. We aren't talking about cheap CRT/

Smile, the wait is nearly over as far as I'm concerned. :magic:

Regards,
Chopper
Holy cow, Batman! Where did this come from?!?! /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />



There are so many big name players now! FINALLY!



Samsung, Mitsubishi, iZ3D, TDVision, Spectron IQ, Kerner, Zalman, NVIDIA, DDD, Phillips, Miracube, and more that I can't even name yet.



After waiting 10+ years, and all this progress happening in the last few months, NOW you want to give up?!?



If it's the NVIDIA news you read at MTBS that has you all wound up, take it easy. The industry is changing for the better, I assure you. We are even starting to see game engines natively support S-3D (e.g. Unigine), and there is so much cooking right now, you should really be feeling much more hopeful. We aren't talking about cheap CRT/



Smile, the wait is nearly over as far as I'm concerned. :magic:



Regards,

Chopper

#2
Posted 01/11/2008 10:20 PM   
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jan 11 2008, 02:20 PM']Holy cow, Batman!  Where did this come from?!?! /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />

There are so many big name players now!  FINALLY!
[/quote]

Its partly the frustrating process of, even today, locating drivers whose existence isn't even documented by the companies that write them and then finding that the most recent drivers are old, and don't work properly.

I'm very technical, so I can do this. But anything that is restricted to use by techies isn't a product, its a technology demo. If it isn't a product and doesn't work with my games, then it is nothing more than a novelty that has the bad side effect of destablizing my system.

There have been companies at different levels all along that have tried to make this work (iGlasses, Colorado Micro Display, and so on), but I still find the product maturity level in the industry hasn't changed, just the names.

What needs to happen, but won't, is that NVidia and ATI need current support in their drivers for stereo and to provide a vendor-agnostic interface to software developers to support configuration within applications. There needs to be a platform-independent interface at the other end for the rendering devices themselves, so that everyone can work together. Remember Apple's GoggleSprocket?
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jan 11 2008, 02:20 PM']Holy cow, Batman!  Where did this come from?!?! /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' />



There are so many big name players now!  FINALLY!





Its partly the frustrating process of, even today, locating drivers whose existence isn't even documented by the companies that write them and then finding that the most recent drivers are old, and don't work properly.



I'm very technical, so I can do this. But anything that is restricted to use by techies isn't a product, its a technology demo. If it isn't a product and doesn't work with my games, then it is nothing more than a novelty that has the bad side effect of destablizing my system.



There have been companies at different levels all along that have tried to make this work (iGlasses, Colorado Micro Display, and so on), but I still find the product maturity level in the industry hasn't changed, just the names.



What needs to happen, but won't, is that NVidia and ATI need current support in their drivers for stereo and to provide a vendor-agnostic interface to software developers to support configuration within applications. There needs to be a platform-independent interface at the other end for the rendering devices themselves, so that everyone can work together. Remember Apple's GoggleSprocket?

#3
Posted 01/11/2008 10:53 PM   
Well, let me go through the list:

1. iZ3D supports ATI & NVIDIA solutions equally.
2. DDD supports ATI & NVIDIA solutions equally.
3. NVIDIA supports Zalman exclusively for now (according to Dave Cook), but the future may bring other things too. That was said in the MTBS news. They are also DX 9 and 10 compliant with more enhancements on the way.
4. Unigine started a ball rolling with a native game engine that supports S-3D. Others will follow.
5. MTBS as a community has really taken off, and we have a strong value to the industry.

I know you are frustrated, but the days of being a niche enthusiast market will be gone very soon. It's just that it took 9 years to get out of the niche market mindset.

Don't think of it taking 10 years. Think of it as what has been accomplished in the last year, and the previous 9 years never happened.

Regards,
Chopper
Well, let me go through the list:



1. iZ3D supports ATI & NVIDIA solutions equally.

2. DDD supports ATI & NVIDIA solutions equally.

3. NVIDIA supports Zalman exclusively for now (according to Dave Cook), but the future may bring other things too. That was said in the MTBS news. They are also DX 9 and 10 compliant with more enhancements on the way.

4. Unigine started a ball rolling with a native game engine that supports S-3D. Others will follow.

5. MTBS as a community has really taken off, and we have a strong value to the industry.



I know you are frustrated, but the days of being a niche enthusiast market will be gone very soon. It's just that it took 9 years to get out of the niche market mindset.



Don't think of it taking 10 years. Think of it as what has been accomplished in the last year, and the previous 9 years never happened.



Regards,

Chopper

#4
Posted 01/11/2008 11:32 PM   
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jan 11 2008, 11:20 PM']We aren't talking about cheap CRT/
[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi2OE6hSh00&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi2OE6hSh00&feature=related[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlLlKrlkp9M&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlLlKrlkp9M&feature=related[/url]
CRT's are not that bad :)
[quote name='Chopper' date='Jan 11 2008, 11:20 PM']We aren't talking about cheap CRT/



=related" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">=related

=related" rel="nofollow" target = "_blank">=related

CRT's are not that bad :)

#5
Posted 01/12/2008 12:44 AM   
its not that people aren't interested, it simply that the majority either don't know it exists , or don't appreciate it because they've never experienced it.

its great that 'other' methods of stereo 3d are now evolving..

it means that the 'death' of CRT will not mean an END to stereo vision.

you only have to see the reaction of people watching videos on youtube of that 3Depth through 'MOVEMENT' with the Wii remote to realize that they are impressed. (even tho its not true 3D).

i think the problem was that the market isn't/wasn't going to advertise stereo 3D, if you needed a CRT. Because that would have been bad business.

The fact is, LCD's are CHEAPER to manufacture. simple.

And the cheaper something is to produce, the more money there is to be made in the end sale. hence why CRT's were being fazed out way before LCD's were even good enough to MATCH the quality of a decent CRT display. & some people (i included) would still argue LCD's are inferior.

It all comes down to PROFIT.

The same thing happened with FWD vs RWD in cars.

The only reason everybody switched was because FWD cars were cheaper to produce. Yet everyone ASSUMED driving the front wheels must be better.

But you only need look at a top of the line M badged BMW to see that isn't the case.

What we've been needing & waiting for in the computer display world is a type of 'audi QUATTRO' lol :D something that is the best of both worlds, and will change the face of GAMING forever! in much the same way the Audi quattro changed the face of WRC rallying forever.

Afterall, 4wd performance cars existed before the quattro, such as the Jensen FF and the FERGUSON 4wd ford capri, but it was only the quattro that actually made the idea stick.

and now 4wd on road cars are common place. And soon enough, i'm hopeful STEREO 3D will be common place as well. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
its not that people aren't interested, it simply that the majority either don't know it exists , or don't appreciate it because they've never experienced it.



its great that 'other' methods of stereo 3d are now evolving..



it means that the 'death' of CRT will not mean an END to stereo vision.



you only have to see the reaction of people watching videos on youtube of that 3Depth through 'MOVEMENT' with the Wii remote to realize that they are impressed. (even tho its not true 3D).



i think the problem was that the market isn't/wasn't going to advertise stereo 3D, if you needed a CRT. Because that would have been bad business.



The fact is, LCD's are CHEAPER to manufacture. simple.



And the cheaper something is to produce, the more money there is to be made in the end sale. hence why CRT's were being fazed out way before LCD's were even good enough to MATCH the quality of a decent CRT display. & some people (i included) would still argue LCD's are inferior.



It all comes down to PROFIT.



The same thing happened with FWD vs RWD in cars.



The only reason everybody switched was because FWD cars were cheaper to produce. Yet everyone ASSUMED driving the front wheels must be better.



But you only need look at a top of the line M badged BMW to see that isn't the case.



What we've been needing & waiting for in the computer display world is a type of 'audi QUATTRO' lol :D something that is the best of both worlds, and will change the face of GAMING forever! in much the same way the Audi quattro changed the face of WRC rallying forever.



Afterall, 4wd performance cars existed before the quattro, such as the Jensen FF and the FERGUSON 4wd ford capri, but it was only the quattro that actually made the idea stick.



and now 4wd on road cars are common place. And soon enough, i'm hopeful STEREO 3D will be common place as well. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

#6
Posted 01/15/2008 06:02 AM   
Hey, don't be down! Stereo rocks, and if you check out www.mtbs3d.com's downloads section you'll find stuff that should work with your 7900s- they work with my stereo 7600 rig just great!

You see, the technology's just getting big and popular- my friends were all blown away by the stereo in Beowulf, and since then I've convinced a few of them to try out stereo3D on their own PCs! I've managed to leave the "ooh, look at me I've got a PS3" brigade at work ground into the dust by taking my Z800 in and showing it off. To put it into perspective, my battered SVGA headset got vastly more oohs and aaahs than the ultra-hyped, brand-new, HD-ready uberconsole. Because of it's Stereo functionality.
So it's clear to me that people want it! And when customers want it, it's [generally] made.

It's also being (slowly) adopted by a good few industries- it's been trialled in ROVs and UAVs, it's being used in survey systems (check out stereophotogrammetry- it's like stereoscope imaging, but in reverse!), graphic designers can use it, etc.

Overall, the world of Stereo is still niche. But the niche is widening so fast that it'll soon be commonplace-niche like owning a home PC or mobile phones or GPS. Don't give up on it yet!
Hey, don't be down! Stereo rocks, and if you check out www.mtbs3d.com's downloads section you'll find stuff that should work with your 7900s- they work with my stereo 7600 rig just great!



You see, the technology's just getting big and popular- my friends were all blown away by the stereo in Beowulf, and since then I've convinced a few of them to try out stereo3D on their own PCs! I've managed to leave the "ooh, look at me I've got a PS3" brigade at work ground into the dust by taking my Z800 in and showing it off. To put it into perspective, my battered SVGA headset got vastly more oohs and aaahs than the ultra-hyped, brand-new, HD-ready uberconsole. Because of it's Stereo functionality.

So it's clear to me that people want it! And when customers want it, it's [generally] made.



It's also being (slowly) adopted by a good few industries- it's been trialled in ROVs and UAVs, it's being used in survey systems (check out stereophotogrammetry- it's like stereoscope imaging, but in reverse!), graphic designers can use it, etc.



Overall, the world of Stereo is still niche. But the niche is widening so fast that it'll soon be commonplace-niche like owning a home PC or mobile phones or GPS. Don't give up on it yet!

#7
Posted 01/24/2008 11:42 PM   
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