As you can see, I'm due for a new and more powerful graphics card to go with my system. I was so set on simply buying either a 7870 or 7950 when they release in a few weeks, but I really can't decide now.
I recently purchased this TV:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+47%22+Class+/+LED+/+1080p+/+120Hz+/+3D+/+HDTV+3D+Blu-ray+Player+Bundle/2970264.p?id=1218367938119&skuId=2970264
I'm really a big fan of 3D. I hooked my Playstation 3 up to it and I absolutely love it. 3D games are awesome. However, PC is where the true power lies, so I of course wish to play the best PC games in 3D on this TV.
After doing some research, it appears Nvidia supports 3D more so than AMD. With AMD, you must go through 3rd parties for drivers, since very few games natively support AMD's HD3D. For Nvidia, all you need is 3DTV Play, and that's it. No third party drivers, no other modifications, you can just play the game you want in 3D, simply like a PS3 3D game.
Now is that above paragraph really true? That's the feel I got from researching it, but the reality may be different. And I know this is an Nvidia forum, but I really need an honest opinion here.
So, what I'm asking is this. What is my best option right now for a playing PC games in 3D, AMD or Nvidia? Whatever the solution, it MUST support 3D on my TV(linked above, LG 47LW5300). MUST SUPPORT IT
Other questions to go along with this include:
-I will be limited to 720p resolution if I want 60 frames due to HDMI's limited bandwidth correct? I am fine with this if true.
-How powerful of a card will I need? Keep in mind, my main monitor resolution(will NOT be used in 3D)is 1680x1050. When playing in 3D, resolution will likely be, 720p, but will also play at 1080p non 3D too. The games I play are: World of Warcraft, Crysis 2, and BF3 mainly. Would like to run all at high/ultra settings(realize this might not be possible in 3D or 1080p for BF3). I was thinking a 570/6970 would serve well enough.
I realize that is a lot to read but I really was wondering if anyone can share their experience. Thank you.
As you can see, I'm due for a new and more powerful graphics card to go with my system. I was so set on simply buying either a 7870 or 7950 when they release in a few weeks, but I really can't decide now.
I'm really a big fan of 3D. I hooked my Playstation 3 up to it and I absolutely love it. 3D games are awesome. However, PC is where the true power lies, so I of course wish to play the best PC games in 3D on this TV.
After doing some research, it appears Nvidia supports 3D more so than AMD. With AMD, you must go through 3rd parties for drivers, since very few games natively support AMD's HD3D. For Nvidia, all you need is 3DTV Play, and that's it. No third party drivers, no other modifications, you can just play the game you want in 3D, simply like a PS3 3D game.
Now is that above paragraph really true? That's the feel I got from researching it, but the reality may be different. And I know this is an Nvidia forum, but I really need an honest opinion here.
So, what I'm asking is this. What is my best option right now for a playing PC games in 3D, AMD or Nvidia? Whatever the solution, it MUST support 3D on my TV(linked above, LG 47LW5300). MUST SUPPORT IT
Other questions to go along with this include:
-I will be limited to 720p resolution if I want 60 frames due to HDMI's limited bandwidth correct? I am fine with this if true.
-How powerful of a card will I need? Keep in mind, my main monitor resolution(will NOT be used in 3D)is 1680x1050. When playing in 3D, resolution will likely be, 720p, but will also play at 1080p non 3D too. The games I play are: World of Warcraft, Crysis 2, and BF3 mainly. Would like to run all at high/ultra settings(realize this might not be possible in 3D or 1080p for BF3). I was thinking a 570/6970 would serve well enough.
I realize that is a lot to read but I really was wondering if anyone can share their experience. Thank you.
An Nvidia GPU offers you the most flexibility when it comes to 3D; I can't think of a good reason to go AMD for 3D unless you already had AMD GPUs on hand.
With Nvidia you have the most choices even if you don't go with Nvidia's 3D ecosystem, as you can also use the same competitor solutions on Nvidia hardware that AMD uses, like iZ3D and DDD. There's quite a few users here who use DDD and iZ3D in conjunction with or in lieu of Nvidia's 3D Vision. Basically here's your options with Nvidia GPUs:
[list]
[*]1) [b]Nvidia 3D Vision[/b] - Nvidia's proprietary ecosystem, hardware needs to be 3D Vision certified. Uses Nvidia's 3D eyeglass hardware and technology, approved 3rd party LCDs, projectors and DLPs. Capable of 120Hz and full 1080p @ 60Hz per eye. Supports Nvidia 3D Vision Surround.
[*]2) [b]Nvidia 3DTV Play[/b] - Nvidia's software adaptation of 3D Vision for HDTVs. Uses HDTV mfg's hardware ecosystem and technology. Limited to HDMI 1.4 framepacking limitations (1080p @ 24Hz or 720p @ 60Hz). Not all HDTVs are supported but Nvidia will add support for most HDTVs if you request it. They have been denying support for some recent solutions however, so YMMV here. No 3D Vision Surround.
[*]3) [b]DDD[/b] - supported on some 3D Vision hardware and 3D HDTVs as well as officially supported DDD hardware.
[*]4) [b]iZ3D [/b]- supported with iZ3D hardware solutions.
[/list]
The main problem I see for you is that your TV is not currently listed as being supported by 3DTV Play even though there's a few LG models above and below it: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
I would verify support with Nvidia customer care or by PM'ing AndrewF (Nvidia 3D Product Manager) before making your decision since its obvious the TV is non-negotiable in your situation. You may also be able to use a modified driver INF to get support for your TV.
As for GPU, at 720p a GTX 570 should be sufficient for most games; WoW and Crysis 2 should be fine. If you want to play BF3 at 60FPS you may still opt for the most powerful single GPU you can buy so maybe the GTX 580. You could also just grab a 570 now and a 2nd one later for SLI if you need it. That's another big advantage of staying within Nvidia's 3D ecosystem actually, as you get full SLI support in 3D. Last I checked, DDD and iZ3D don't currently support SLI/CF, although AMD did make the claim in their latest driver of CF support in 3D and they rely on DDD/iZ3D drivers for 3D.
An Nvidia GPU offers you the most flexibility when it comes to 3D; I can't think of a good reason to go AMD for 3D unless you already had AMD GPUs on hand.
With Nvidia you have the most choices even if you don't go with Nvidia's 3D ecosystem, as you can also use the same competitor solutions on Nvidia hardware that AMD uses, like iZ3D and DDD. There's quite a few users here who use DDD and iZ3D in conjunction with or in lieu of Nvidia's 3D Vision. Basically here's your options with Nvidia GPUs:
1) Nvidia 3D Vision - Nvidia's proprietary ecosystem, hardware needs to be 3D Vision certified. Uses Nvidia's 3D eyeglass hardware and technology, approved 3rd party LCDs, projectors and DLPs. Capable of 120Hz and full 1080p @ 60Hz per eye. Supports Nvidia 3D Vision Surround.
2) Nvidia 3DTV Play - Nvidia's software adaptation of 3D Vision for HDTVs. Uses HDTV mfg's hardware ecosystem and technology. Limited to HDMI 1.4 framepacking limitations (1080p @ 24Hz or 720p @ 60Hz). Not all HDTVs are supported but Nvidia will add support for most HDTVs if you request it. They have been denying support for some recent solutions however, so YMMV here. No 3D Vision Surround.
3) DDD - supported on some 3D Vision hardware and 3D HDTVs as well as officially supported DDD hardware.
4) iZ3D - supported with iZ3D hardware solutions.
The main problem I see for you is that your TV is not currently listed as being supported by 3DTV Play even though there's a few LG models above and below it: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
I would verify support with Nvidia customer care or by PM'ing AndrewF (Nvidia 3D Product Manager) before making your decision since its obvious the TV is non-negotiable in your situation. You may also be able to use a modified driver INF to get support for your TV.
As for GPU, at 720p a GTX 570 should be sufficient for most games; WoW and Crysis 2 should be fine. If you want to play BF3 at 60FPS you may still opt for the most powerful single GPU you can buy so maybe the GTX 580. You could also just grab a 570 now and a 2nd one later for SLI if you need it. That's another big advantage of staying within Nvidia's 3D ecosystem actually, as you get full SLI support in 3D. Last I checked, DDD and iZ3D don't currently support SLI/CF, although AMD did make the claim in their latest driver of CF support in 3D and they rely on DDD/iZ3D drivers for 3D.
So I guess 3dtv play would suit me best, as the only 3d display I own is my tv. I will for sure pm Andrew to make sure my tv will work, although I'm confident it should since one of the lg models they list as being supported is the exact same as mine except its a smart tv.
Amd recently allows for crossfire/sli with their 12.1 preview, but since my motherboard only has one gpu slot I must stick with a single card.
So I'm curious, what method does 3dtv play use to display 3d? Is it side by side, top bottom, frame packing? As for the 720p limitation, that's fine, I was expecting this.
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
I've also heard some people say that 3dtv play is horrible software and one of the worst 3d implementations ever. I myself can't see why this is true, but am wondering if maybe there were some common issues that people complained about.
So I guess 3dtv play would suit me best, as the only 3d display I own is my tv. I will for sure pm Andrew to make sure my tv will work, although I'm confident it should since one of the lg models they list as being supported is the exact same as mine except its a smart tv.
Amd recently allows for crossfire/sli with their 12.1 preview, but since my motherboard only has one gpu slot I must stick with a single card.
So I'm curious, what method does 3dtv play use to display 3d? Is it side by side, top bottom, frame packing? As for the 720p limitation, that's fine, I was expecting this.
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
I've also heard some people say that 3dtv play is horrible software and one of the worst 3d implementations ever. I myself can't see why this is true, but am wondering if maybe there were some common issues that people complained about.
[quote name='Trogdor796' date='20 December 2011 - 07:54 AM' timestamp='1324367664' post='1344611']
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
[/quote]
Take a quick look [url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/"]here[/url]. This site provide impartial advice on all systems. It also hosts [url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/gg3d/"]GameGrade3D[/url] which allows users to rate games with regard to 3D. The key feature (apart from reliability) is that it give seporate grades depending on the 3D solution (DDD, iZ3D, 3D Vision and Native 3D (AMD/ATI)) used.
What I am trying to say is although the vast majority of games work best on 3D Vision (well they do!) there are a small number of games which are better using other solutions. Paying for the DDD drivers therefore covers lots of bases.
nb. I havent felt the need to invest in an additional 3D wassname yet.
[quote name='Trogdor796' date='20 December 2011 - 07:54 AM' timestamp='1324367664' post='1344611']
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
Take a quick look here. This site provide impartial advice on all systems. It also hosts GameGrade3D which allows users to rate games with regard to 3D. The key feature (apart from reliability) is that it give seporate grades depending on the 3D solution (DDD, iZ3D, 3D Vision and Native 3D (AMD/ATI)) used.
What I am trying to say is although the vast majority of games work best on 3D Vision (well they do!) there are a small number of games which are better using other solutions. Paying for the DDD drivers therefore covers lots of bases.
nb. I havent felt the need to invest in an additional 3D wassname yet.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Thanks for the advice. It appears most games I own work good with 3DVision.
One thing that has me concerned is this thread:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=218723
The second reply talks about how 3DTV always looks awful. To be honest, if the only problem is 720p as opposed to 1080p, then that is fine for me. I play all my PS3 games at that resolution, and you can always turn AA up in PC games to compensate.
So unless 3DTV Play looks terribly bad on LG TV's, then this seems like the right option for me.
The second reply talks about how 3DTV always looks awful. To be honest, if the only problem is 720p as opposed to 1080p, then that is fine for me. I play all my PS3 games at that resolution, and you can always turn AA up in PC games to compensate.
So unless 3DTV Play looks terribly bad on LG TV's, then this seems like the right option for me.
andysonofbob covered why you would want to use a competitor software, they're good backup when Nvidia support is lacking. In some cases DDD also has better compatibility, but overall I think Nvidia's 3D Solution is still the best in terms of quality and compatibility.
As for HDMI framepacking, some people have extreme prejudice against it and it does have its limitations, but in your situation its generally a non-issue since HDMI framepacking is what you're limited to with your TV, like most other HDTVs. If you're OK with PS3 3D you shouldn't have any problem with 3DTV Play, since PS3 also uses HDMI frame packing for 3D.
BF3 has its own native 3D implementation that supports both Nvidia and AMD hardware and 3D ecosystems.
andysonofbob covered why you would want to use a competitor software, they're good backup when Nvidia support is lacking. In some cases DDD also has better compatibility, but overall I think Nvidia's 3D Solution is still the best in terms of quality and compatibility.
As for HDMI framepacking, some people have extreme prejudice against it and it does have its limitations, but in your situation its generally a non-issue since HDMI framepacking is what you're limited to with your TV, like most other HDTVs. If you're OK with PS3 3D you shouldn't have any problem with 3DTV Play, since PS3 also uses HDMI frame packing for 3D.
BF3 has its own native 3D implementation that supports both Nvidia and AMD hardware and 3D ecosystems.
Well, I have a laptop with a 540M gt in It, I think I'm going to do the 14 day trial and see how good games are. I realize that a 540m kinda sucks, especially for 3D, but at 720p I should atleast be able to run most games and try the 3D, even if it's on low settings.
Well, I have a laptop with a 540M gt in It, I think I'm going to do the 14 day trial and see how good games are. I realize that a 540m kinda sucks, especially for 3D, but at 720p I should atleast be able to run most games and try the 3D, even if it's on low settings.
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
So can anyone provide insight?
[/quote]
Yeah it sounds like you've run into EDID issue where your TV isn't supported. Even in cases where the TV seems nearly identical, any conflict in the EDID info can prevent your TV from being supported. There's even been a few examples where the same TV marketed under different SKUs for different big-box stores wasn't supported when the main SKU version was listed as supported. This is why I was saying you would want to verify if the TV was supported or not, and if not, whether it could be added to the drivers.
There's also a potential workaround with modified INF files, you can read about it here, but its pretty involved: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=13176
[quote name='Trogdor796' date='20 December 2011 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1324438115' post='1345025']
Update.
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
So can anyone provide insight?
Yeah it sounds like you've run into EDID issue where your TV isn't supported. Even in cases where the TV seems nearly identical, any conflict in the EDID info can prevent your TV from being supported. There's even been a few examples where the same TV marketed under different SKUs for different big-box stores wasn't supported when the main SKU version was listed as supported. This is why I was saying you would want to verify if the TV was supported or not, and if not, whether it could be added to the drivers.
Thank you for replying. I have gone through where you contact Nvidia if your Display isn't supported, and uploaded the file that you save and completed the submission report. I have also sent a private message to andrew, so I guess I just have to wait from here on out. I feel that it technically should work, since the smart tv version of mine is listed.
If it absolutely will not work with this TV I have until Jan. 24 to return it for a full refund, but it's already wall mounted and everything, so that would really be a last resort.
I was deciding between this TV and the Sony HMZ-T1 Personal 3D Viewer, kinda wishing I went with the 3D viewer, I believe that is officially supported now. Oh well, hopefully my current situation works out. Guess it's back to PS3 games for a while.
Thank you for replying. I have gone through where you contact Nvidia if your Display isn't supported, and uploaded the file that you save and completed the submission report. I have also sent a private message to andrew, so I guess I just have to wait from here on out. I feel that it technically should work, since the smart tv version of mine is listed.
If it absolutely will not work with this TV I have until Jan. 24 to return it for a full refund, but it's already wall mounted and everything, so that would really be a last resort.
I was deciding between this TV and the Sony HMZ-T1 Personal 3D Viewer, kinda wishing I went with the 3D viewer, I believe that is officially supported now. Oh well, hopefully my current situation works out. Guess it's back to PS3 games for a while.
Okay. After completing and submitting the submission report requesting that support be added for my TV and sending a private message to andrew, I have yet to hear anything at all. No email from Nvidia, no pm response, nothing. I realize that it was just Christmas, but it's been over two weeks now and I just feel like I'm not going to get a response, and that if I keep waiting I will never hear anything. I want to buy a GTX 570 or 580, but if Nvidia is not even going to support my display, then I don't see a reason to buy one of those graphic cards.
Okay. After completing and submitting the submission report requesting that support be added for my TV and sending a private message to andrew, I have yet to hear anything at all. No email from Nvidia, no pm response, nothing. I realize that it was just Christmas, but it's been over two weeks now and I just feel like I'm not going to get a response, and that if I keep waiting I will never hear anything. I want to buy a GTX 570 or 580, but if Nvidia is not even going to support my display, then I don't see a reason to buy one of those graphic cards.
Yeah AndrewF hasn't been posting much in the last few weeks, probably a combination of the holidays and number of hot button topics around here lately lol.
But yeah I wouldn't expect too much to have gotten done in the last few weeks at Nvidia or anywhere else, just how it is in the US anyways. You can try a different route though if you just want to see what 3DTV Play looks like your monitor. Its not a permanent solution but its relatively easy in the meantime:
Yeah AndrewF hasn't been posting much in the last few weeks, probably a combination of the holidays and number of hot button topics around here lately lol.
But yeah I wouldn't expect too much to have gotten done in the last few weeks at Nvidia or anywhere else, just how it is in the US anyways. You can try a different route though if you just want to see what 3DTV Play looks like your monitor. Its not a permanent solution but its relatively easy in the meantime:
So if I did that, how would the quality compare to if my display wasn't officially supported? If all 1.4 display's technically work(according to the link you posted), then why is there a "supported list" from Nvidia, instead of supporting all 1.4 3DTV's? It just annoys me how much this all costs and in the end you have to go through loopholes to get things to work right, there doesn't seem to be any standard at all.
So if I did that, how would the quality compare to if my display wasn't officially supported? If all 1.4 display's technically work(according to the link you posted), then why is there a "supported list" from Nvidia, instead of supporting all 1.4 3DTV's? It just annoys me how much this all costs and in the end you have to go through loopholes to get things to work right, there doesn't seem to be any standard at all.
[quote name='Trogdor796' date='03 January 2012 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1325614262' post='1351061']
So if I did that, how would the quality compare to if my display wasn't officially supported? If all 1.4 display's technically work(according to the link you posted), then why is there a "supported list" from Nvidia, instead of supporting all 1.4 3DTV's? It just annoys me how much this all costs and in the end you have to go through loopholes to get things to work right, there doesn't seem to be any standard at all.
[/quote]
The HDMI 1.4 spec is so broad and flawed that you can have significant issues without a custom EDID for each product. Supported resolutions and refresh rate timings are just some of the problems but these are generally OK if they stay within spec. The bigger problem is with overscan/underscan as that's handled differently for each HDTV. While none of the changes you make to EDID are going to be catastrophic or irreversible (if you have another display available), there's certainly more potential for problems for a single display or HDTV being used as an only display. I guess Nvidia tries to reduce those potential issues by only supporting monitors they already have the EDID for instead of relying on a generic HDMI 1.4 profile and then running into compatibility issues. The only way they're going to get that EDID info is from the user or the mfgs. It also allows them to lock out unsupported HDTV makes and models.
As for the annoyance of bleeding edge tech, I understand but none of this is new. HDMI is probably the worst thing to happen to HT enthusiasts and has been causing headaches long before this S3D situation. Just go back in time a few years when bitstreaming HD audio was the new rage and people were dealing with the EDID issues with their receivers and video cards (capable of bitstreaming HD audio).......
[quote name='Trogdor796' date='03 January 2012 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1325614262' post='1351061']
So if I did that, how would the quality compare to if my display wasn't officially supported? If all 1.4 display's technically work(according to the link you posted), then why is there a "supported list" from Nvidia, instead of supporting all 1.4 3DTV's? It just annoys me how much this all costs and in the end you have to go through loopholes to get things to work right, there doesn't seem to be any standard at all.
The HDMI 1.4 spec is so broad and flawed that you can have significant issues without a custom EDID for each product. Supported resolutions and refresh rate timings are just some of the problems but these are generally OK if they stay within spec. The bigger problem is with overscan/underscan as that's handled differently for each HDTV. While none of the changes you make to EDID are going to be catastrophic or irreversible (if you have another display available), there's certainly more potential for problems for a single display or HDTV being used as an only display. I guess Nvidia tries to reduce those potential issues by only supporting monitors they already have the EDID for instead of relying on a generic HDMI 1.4 profile and then running into compatibility issues. The only way they're going to get that EDID info is from the user or the mfgs. It also allows them to lock out unsupported HDTV makes and models.
As for the annoyance of bleeding edge tech, I understand but none of this is new. HDMI is probably the worst thing to happen to HT enthusiasts and has been causing headaches long before this S3D situation. Just go back in time a few years when bitstreaming HD audio was the new rage and people were dealing with the EDID issues with their receivers and video cards (capable of bitstreaming HD audio).......
2500k@4.4Ghz
8GB 1600mhz Corsair Dominator
2x250GB HDD Raid 0
HIS 4870 512mb
OCZ 500W ModXStream PSU
22" LCD 1680x1050 resolution
As you can see, I'm due for a new and more powerful graphics card to go with my system. I was so set on simply buying either a 7870 or 7950 when they release in a few weeks, but I really can't decide now.
I recently purchased this TV:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+47%22+Class+/+LED+/+1080p+/+120Hz+/+3D+/+HDTV+3D+Blu-ray+Player+Bundle/2970264.p?id=1218367938119&skuId=2970264
I'm really a big fan of 3D. I hooked my Playstation 3 up to it and I absolutely love it. 3D games are awesome. However, PC is where the true power lies, so I of course wish to play the best PC games in 3D on this TV.
After doing some research, it appears Nvidia supports 3D more so than AMD. With AMD, you must go through 3rd parties for drivers, since very few games natively support AMD's HD3D. For Nvidia, all you need is 3DTV Play, and that's it. No third party drivers, no other modifications, you can just play the game you want in 3D, simply like a PS3 3D game.
Now is that above paragraph really true? That's the feel I got from researching it, but the reality may be different. And I know this is an Nvidia forum, but I really need an honest opinion here.
So, what I'm asking is this. What is my best option right now for a playing PC games in 3D, AMD or Nvidia? Whatever the solution, it MUST support 3D on my TV(linked above, LG 47LW5300). MUST SUPPORT IT
Other questions to go along with this include:
-I will be limited to 720p resolution if I want 60 frames due to HDMI's limited bandwidth correct? I am fine with this if true.
-How powerful of a card will I need? Keep in mind, my main monitor resolution(will NOT be used in 3D)is 1680x1050. When playing in 3D, resolution will likely be, 720p, but will also play at 1080p non 3D too. The games I play are: World of Warcraft, Crysis 2, and BF3 mainly. Would like to run all at high/ultra settings(realize this might not be possible in 3D or 1080p for BF3). I was thinking a 570/6970 would serve well enough.
I realize that is a lot to read but I really was wondering if anyone can share their experience. Thank you.
2500k@4.4Ghz
8GB 1600mhz Corsair Dominator
2x250GB HDD Raid 0
HIS 4870 512mb
OCZ 500W ModXStream PSU
22" LCD 1680x1050 resolution
As you can see, I'm due for a new and more powerful graphics card to go with my system. I was so set on simply buying either a 7870 or 7950 when they release in a few weeks, but I really can't decide now.
I recently purchased this TV:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+47%22+Class+/+LED+/+1080p+/+120Hz+/+3D+/+HDTV+3D+Blu-ray+Player+Bundle/2970264.p?id=1218367938119&skuId=2970264
I'm really a big fan of 3D. I hooked my Playstation 3 up to it and I absolutely love it. 3D games are awesome. However, PC is where the true power lies, so I of course wish to play the best PC games in 3D on this TV.
After doing some research, it appears Nvidia supports 3D more so than AMD. With AMD, you must go through 3rd parties for drivers, since very few games natively support AMD's HD3D. For Nvidia, all you need is 3DTV Play, and that's it. No third party drivers, no other modifications, you can just play the game you want in 3D, simply like a PS3 3D game.
Now is that above paragraph really true? That's the feel I got from researching it, but the reality may be different. And I know this is an Nvidia forum, but I really need an honest opinion here.
So, what I'm asking is this. What is my best option right now for a playing PC games in 3D, AMD or Nvidia? Whatever the solution, it MUST support 3D on my TV(linked above, LG 47LW5300). MUST SUPPORT IT
Other questions to go along with this include:
-I will be limited to 720p resolution if I want 60 frames due to HDMI's limited bandwidth correct? I am fine with this if true.
-How powerful of a card will I need? Keep in mind, my main monitor resolution(will NOT be used in 3D)is 1680x1050. When playing in 3D, resolution will likely be, 720p, but will also play at 1080p non 3D too. The games I play are: World of Warcraft, Crysis 2, and BF3 mainly. Would like to run all at high/ultra settings(realize this might not be possible in 3D or 1080p for BF3). I was thinking a 570/6970 would serve well enough.
I realize that is a lot to read but I really was wondering if anyone can share their experience. Thank you.
With Nvidia you have the most choices even if you don't go with Nvidia's 3D ecosystem, as you can also use the same competitor solutions on Nvidia hardware that AMD uses, like iZ3D and DDD. There's quite a few users here who use DDD and iZ3D in conjunction with or in lieu of Nvidia's 3D Vision. Basically here's your options with Nvidia GPUs:
[list]
[*]1) [b]Nvidia 3D Vision[/b] - Nvidia's proprietary ecosystem, hardware needs to be 3D Vision certified. Uses Nvidia's 3D eyeglass hardware and technology, approved 3rd party LCDs, projectors and DLPs. Capable of 120Hz and full 1080p @ 60Hz per eye. Supports Nvidia 3D Vision Surround.
[*]2) [b]Nvidia 3DTV Play[/b] - Nvidia's software adaptation of 3D Vision for HDTVs. Uses HDTV mfg's hardware ecosystem and technology. Limited to HDMI 1.4 framepacking limitations (1080p @ 24Hz or 720p @ 60Hz). Not all HDTVs are supported but Nvidia will add support for most HDTVs if you request it. They have been denying support for some recent solutions however, so YMMV here. No 3D Vision Surround.
[*]3) [b]DDD[/b] - supported on some 3D Vision hardware and 3D HDTVs as well as officially supported DDD hardware.
[*]4) [b]iZ3D [/b]- supported with iZ3D hardware solutions.
[/list]
The main problem I see for you is that your TV is not currently listed as being supported by 3DTV Play even though there's a few LG models above and below it: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
I would verify support with Nvidia customer care or by PM'ing AndrewF (Nvidia 3D Product Manager) before making your decision since its obvious the TV is non-negotiable in your situation. You may also be able to use a modified driver INF to get support for your TV.
As for GPU, at 720p a GTX 570 should be sufficient for most games; WoW and Crysis 2 should be fine. If you want to play BF3 at 60FPS you may still opt for the most powerful single GPU you can buy so maybe the GTX 580. You could also just grab a 570 now and a 2nd one later for SLI if you need it. That's another big advantage of staying within Nvidia's 3D ecosystem actually, as you get full SLI support in 3D. Last I checked, DDD and iZ3D don't currently support SLI/CF, although AMD did make the claim in their latest driver of CF support in 3D and they rely on DDD/iZ3D drivers for 3D.
With Nvidia you have the most choices even if you don't go with Nvidia's 3D ecosystem, as you can also use the same competitor solutions on Nvidia hardware that AMD uses, like iZ3D and DDD. There's quite a few users here who use DDD and iZ3D in conjunction with or in lieu of Nvidia's 3D Vision. Basically here's your options with Nvidia GPUs:
The main problem I see for you is that your TV is not currently listed as being supported by 3DTV Play even though there's a few LG models above and below it: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-system-requirements.html
I would verify support with Nvidia customer care or by PM'ing AndrewF (Nvidia 3D Product Manager) before making your decision since its obvious the TV is non-negotiable in your situation. You may also be able to use a modified driver INF to get support for your TV.
As for GPU, at 720p a GTX 570 should be sufficient for most games; WoW and Crysis 2 should be fine. If you want to play BF3 at 60FPS you may still opt for the most powerful single GPU you can buy so maybe the GTX 580. You could also just grab a 570 now and a 2nd one later for SLI if you need it. That's another big advantage of staying within Nvidia's 3D ecosystem actually, as you get full SLI support in 3D. Last I checked, DDD and iZ3D don't currently support SLI/CF, although AMD did make the claim in their latest driver of CF support in 3D and they rely on DDD/iZ3D drivers for 3D.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
So I guess 3dtv play would suit me best, as the only 3d display I own is my tv. I will for sure pm Andrew to make sure my tv will work, although I'm confident it should since one of the lg models they list as being supported is the exact same as mine except its a smart tv.
Amd recently allows for crossfire/sli with their 12.1 preview, but since my motherboard only has one gpu slot I must stick with a single card.
So I'm curious, what method does 3dtv play use to display 3d? Is it side by side, top bottom, frame packing? As for the 720p limitation, that's fine, I was expecting this.
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
I've also heard some people say that 3dtv play is horrible software and one of the worst 3d implementations ever. I myself can't see why this is true, but am wondering if maybe there were some common issues that people complained about.
So I guess 3dtv play would suit me best, as the only 3d display I own is my tv. I will for sure pm Andrew to make sure my tv will work, although I'm confident it should since one of the lg models they list as being supported is the exact same as mine except its a smart tv.
Amd recently allows for crossfire/sli with their 12.1 preview, but since my motherboard only has one gpu slot I must stick with a single card.
So I'm curious, what method does 3dtv play use to display 3d? Is it side by side, top bottom, frame packing? As for the 720p limitation, that's fine, I was expecting this.
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
I've also heard some people say that 3dtv play is horrible software and one of the worst 3d implementations ever. I myself can't see why this is true, but am wondering if maybe there were some common issues that people complained about.
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
[/quote]
Take a quick look [url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/"]here[/url]. This site provide impartial advice on all systems. It also hosts [url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/gg3d/"]GameGrade3D[/url] which allows users to rate games with regard to 3D. The key feature (apart from reliability) is that it give seporate grades depending on the 3D solution (DDD, iZ3D, 3D Vision and Native 3D (AMD/ATI)) used.
What I am trying to say is although the vast majority of games work best on 3D Vision (well they do!) there are a small number of games which are better using other solutions. Paying for the DDD drivers therefore covers lots of bases.
nb. I havent felt the need to invest in an additional 3D wassname yet.
Are there any reasons why I would want or have to use ddd or iz3d? Or will I get by with 3dtv play on almost all games?
Take a quick look here. This site provide impartial advice on all systems. It also hosts GameGrade3D which allows users to rate games with regard to 3D. The key feature (apart from reliability) is that it give seporate grades depending on the 3D solution (DDD, iZ3D, 3D Vision and Native 3D (AMD/ATI)) used.
What I am trying to say is although the vast majority of games work best on 3D Vision (well they do!) there are a small number of games which are better using other solutions. Paying for the DDD drivers therefore covers lots of bases.
nb. I havent felt the need to invest in an additional 3D wassname yet.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
One thing that has me concerned is this thread:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=218723
The second reply talks about how 3DTV always looks awful. To be honest, if the only problem is 720p as opposed to 1080p, then that is fine for me. I play all my PS3 games at that resolution, and you can always turn AA up in PC games to compensate.
So unless 3DTV Play looks terribly bad on LG TV's, then this seems like the right option for me.
BTW, does BF3 have native Nvidia 3D support?
One thing that has me concerned is this thread:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=218723
The second reply talks about how 3DTV always looks awful. To be honest, if the only problem is 720p as opposed to 1080p, then that is fine for me. I play all my PS3 games at that resolution, and you can always turn AA up in PC games to compensate.
So unless 3DTV Play looks terribly bad on LG TV's, then this seems like the right option for me.
BTW, does BF3 have native Nvidia 3D support?
As for HDMI framepacking, some people have extreme prejudice against it and it does have its limitations, but in your situation its generally a non-issue since HDMI framepacking is what you're limited to with your TV, like most other HDTVs. If you're OK with PS3 3D you shouldn't have any problem with 3DTV Play, since PS3 also uses HDMI frame packing for 3D.
BF3 has its own native 3D implementation that supports both Nvidia and AMD hardware and 3D ecosystems.
As for HDMI framepacking, some people have extreme prejudice against it and it does have its limitations, but in your situation its generally a non-issue since HDMI framepacking is what you're limited to with your TV, like most other HDTVs. If you're OK with PS3 3D you shouldn't have any problem with 3DTV Play, since PS3 also uses HDMI frame packing for 3D.
BF3 has its own native 3D implementation that supports both Nvidia and AMD hardware and 3D ecosystems.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
So can anyone provide insight?
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
So can anyone provide insight?
Update.
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
So can anyone provide insight?
[/quote]
Yeah it sounds like you've run into EDID issue where your TV isn't supported. Even in cases where the TV seems nearly identical, any conflict in the EDID info can prevent your TV from being supported. There's even been a few examples where the same TV marketed under different SKUs for different big-box stores wasn't supported when the main SKU version was listed as supported. This is why I was saying you would want to verify if the TV was supported or not, and if not, whether it could be added to the drivers.
There's also a potential workaround with modified INF files, you can read about it here, but its pretty involved: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=13176
Update.
When installing the 3DTV Play, it told me that "No 3D display was detected, ensure that it's hooked up properly".
I'm guessing this is because my TV 47LW5300 isn't listed as supported, but the 47LW5600 is listed, which is the exact same as mine except it's a smart tv, shouldn't make a difference.
So can anyone provide insight?
Yeah it sounds like you've run into EDID issue where your TV isn't supported. Even in cases where the TV seems nearly identical, any conflict in the EDID info can prevent your TV from being supported. There's even been a few examples where the same TV marketed under different SKUs for different big-box stores wasn't supported when the main SKU version was listed as supported. This is why I was saying you would want to verify if the TV was supported or not, and if not, whether it could be added to the drivers.
There's also a potential workaround with modified INF files, you can read about it here, but its pretty involved: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=13176
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
If it absolutely will not work with this TV I have until Jan. 24 to return it for a full refund, but it's already wall mounted and everything, so that would really be a last resort.
I was deciding between this TV and the Sony HMZ-T1 Personal 3D Viewer, kinda wishing I went with the 3D viewer, I believe that is officially supported now. Oh well, hopefully my current situation works out. Guess it's back to PS3 games for a while.
If it absolutely will not work with this TV I have until Jan. 24 to return it for a full refund, but it's already wall mounted and everything, so that would really be a last resort.
I was deciding between this TV and the Sony HMZ-T1 Personal 3D Viewer, kinda wishing I went with the 3D viewer, I believe that is officially supported now. Oh well, hopefully my current situation works out. Guess it's back to PS3 games for a while.
But yeah I wouldn't expect too much to have gotten done in the last few weeks at Nvidia or anywhere else, just how it is in the US anyways. You can try a different route though if you just want to see what 3DTV Play looks like your monitor. Its not a permanent solution but its relatively easy in the meantime:
http://blog.bagearon.com/?p=38
But yeah I wouldn't expect too much to have gotten done in the last few weeks at Nvidia or anywhere else, just how it is in the US anyways. You can try a different route though if you just want to see what 3DTV Play looks like your monitor. Its not a permanent solution but its relatively easy in the meantime:
http://blog.bagearon.com/?p=38
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
So if I did that, how would the quality compare to if my display wasn't officially supported? If all 1.4 display's technically work(according to the link you posted), then why is there a "supported list" from Nvidia, instead of supporting all 1.4 3DTV's? It just annoys me how much this all costs and in the end you have to go through loopholes to get things to work right, there doesn't seem to be any standard at all.
[/quote]
The HDMI 1.4 spec is so broad and flawed that you can have significant issues without a custom EDID for each product. Supported resolutions and refresh rate timings are just some of the problems but these are generally OK if they stay within spec. The bigger problem is with overscan/underscan as that's handled differently for each HDTV. While none of the changes you make to EDID are going to be catastrophic or irreversible (if you have another display available), there's certainly more potential for problems for a single display or HDTV being used as an only display. I guess Nvidia tries to reduce those potential issues by only supporting monitors they already have the EDID for instead of relying on a generic HDMI 1.4 profile and then running into compatibility issues. The only way they're going to get that EDID info is from the user or the mfgs. It also allows them to lock out unsupported HDTV makes and models.
As for the annoyance of bleeding edge tech, I understand but none of this is new. HDMI is probably the worst thing to happen to HT enthusiasts and has been causing headaches long before this S3D situation. Just go back in time a few years when bitstreaming HD audio was the new rage and people were dealing with the EDID issues with their receivers and video cards (capable of bitstreaming HD audio).......
So if I did that, how would the quality compare to if my display wasn't officially supported? If all 1.4 display's technically work(according to the link you posted), then why is there a "supported list" from Nvidia, instead of supporting all 1.4 3DTV's? It just annoys me how much this all costs and in the end you have to go through loopholes to get things to work right, there doesn't seem to be any standard at all.
The HDMI 1.4 spec is so broad and flawed that you can have significant issues without a custom EDID for each product. Supported resolutions and refresh rate timings are just some of the problems but these are generally OK if they stay within spec. The bigger problem is with overscan/underscan as that's handled differently for each HDTV. While none of the changes you make to EDID are going to be catastrophic or irreversible (if you have another display available), there's certainly more potential for problems for a single display or HDTV being used as an only display. I guess Nvidia tries to reduce those potential issues by only supporting monitors they already have the EDID for instead of relying on a generic HDMI 1.4 profile and then running into compatibility issues. The only way they're going to get that EDID info is from the user or the mfgs. It also allows them to lock out unsupported HDTV makes and models.
As for the annoyance of bleeding edge tech, I understand but none of this is new. HDMI is probably the worst thing to happen to HT enthusiasts and has been causing headaches long before this S3D situation. Just go back in time a few years when bitstreaming HD audio was the new rage and people were dealing with the EDID issues with their receivers and video cards (capable of bitstreaming HD audio).......
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W