Two worlds 2 now with 3d support.
  3 / 7    
I'm sorry Bobarr but I'm not buying it. With standard 3D my monitor is a window into the virtual world. With this system, my monitor is the back of a very small box. With standard 3D, something 100 yards away looks like it's 100 yards away and something a mile away looks to be roughly a mile away. With this 3D they are both 2 feet away.

It does work OK for all the objects that are less than about 50 yards away. You can definitely tell that something 30 yards away is closer than something 40 yards away but they still look like they are within arm's reach.

I see what you mean when you talk about more spacial depth effect. Our ability to triangulate to figure out the distance to an object gets weaker the further away something is. So, using my above example, not only can you tell that something 30 yards away is closer than something 40 yards away, it's FAR easier to see that it's 25% closer. But this comes at too great a price, IMHO. First, it shrinks everything down and second it introduces a border that shouldn't be there - namely the point at which the 3D ends and becomes a 2D wall. I can live with the first but the second is very distracting to me.

This is not a V shape, this is a Y shape with a VERY long stem. It might work OK if the whole game were played indoors where the view distance never gets to the 2D background but this is definitely not that sort of game. Even then, though, why should it only work OK? Why not make it real 3D??

I don't see how this would make any difference for eye strain or ghosting.
I'm sorry Bobarr but I'm not buying it. With standard 3D my monitor is a window into the virtual world. With this system, my monitor is the back of a very small box. With standard 3D, something 100 yards away looks like it's 100 yards away and something a mile away looks to be roughly a mile away. With this 3D they are both 2 feet away.



It does work OK for all the objects that are less than about 50 yards away. You can definitely tell that something 30 yards away is closer than something 40 yards away but they still look like they are within arm's reach.



I see what you mean when you talk about more spacial depth effect. Our ability to triangulate to figure out the distance to an object gets weaker the further away something is. So, using my above example, not only can you tell that something 30 yards away is closer than something 40 yards away, it's FAR easier to see that it's 25% closer. But this comes at too great a price, IMHO. First, it shrinks everything down and second it introduces a border that shouldn't be there - namely the point at which the 3D ends and becomes a 2D wall. I can live with the first but the second is very distracting to me.



This is not a V shape, this is a Y shape with a VERY long stem. It might work OK if the whole game were played indoors where the view distance never gets to the 2D background but this is definitely not that sort of game. Even then, though, why should it only work OK? Why not make it real 3D??



I don't see how this would make any difference for eye strain or ghosting.

#31
Posted 09/13/2011 01:39 AM   
I agree with Zloth. The pop out S3D the game offers with the update reminds me to the workaround with no depth and increased convergence that can be used when there are too many issues with "normal depth S3D". It is better than plain 2D but I prefer the usual S3D. So I removed the last update and play TW2 renamed as ofdr.exe and with the other tweaks mentioned earlier. I can miss shadows when I get deep S3D in the outside areas in return. Only inside buildings with torchlight issues I use the no depth and increased convergence settings. As I use the Two Worlds Dark Elf Female Mod I don't have problems with flickering face textures.

Update: Instead of switching back to 1.2 now I stayed with 1.3, renamed TwoWorlds2.exe (DX9-Version) to ofdr.exe and use this version for outside areas with maximum depth. When playing in extended inside areas I use the new official 3D version (instead of using the mimimum depth and increased convergence tweak as before).
I agree with Zloth. The pop out S3D the game offers with the update reminds me to the workaround with no depth and increased convergence that can be used when there are too many issues with "normal depth S3D". It is better than plain 2D but I prefer the usual S3D. So I removed the last update and play TW2 renamed as ofdr.exe and with the other tweaks mentioned earlier. I can miss shadows when I get deep S3D in the outside areas in return. Only inside buildings with torchlight issues I use the no depth and increased convergence settings. As I use the Two Worlds Dark Elf Female Mod I don't have problems with flickering face textures.



Update: Instead of switching back to 1.2 now I stayed with 1.3, renamed TwoWorlds2.exe (DX9-Version) to ofdr.exe and use this version for outside areas with maximum depth. When playing in extended inside areas I use the new official 3D version (instead of using the mimimum depth and increased convergence tweak as before).

My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!

#32
Posted 09/13/2011 07:52 AM   
No problem - this is subjective I guess. I felt the same way that you do at first, but then it switched for me. I really suggest trying to move your hand/arm towards the screen and compare it in relation with all the things you see. Everything comes to life for me this way.

Concerning the Y-shape, this will depend on your engine.StereoFocal setting. For me it's definetly a "V" as even very far away objects are slightly shifted. Just increase e.g. the separation settings to 50/50 and you will notice how farther away objects are shifted stronger and more noticeably. This happens though the StereoFocal setting has not been changed, so it indicates that the lines were "V" before and just the angle increase a little, making it more noticable. Engine.StereoFocal detemines where the lower point of the "V" lies, wheras separation determines the distance between the two top points of the "V" or the angle between the lines, if you want. By pushing Engine.StereoFocal deeper into the screen, you lenghten the lines. If you still feel like "Y" just increase engine.StereoFocal (and, to actually see the already existing lien differenc better, also separation).

I agreee though that the effect is indeed better indoors than outdoors, probably because the two lines of the "V" come too close to each other in long range outdoor scenarios for the effect to fully click.

Due to a stronger 3d effect for popout side lines, much less separation is needed for an immersive 3d effect. Less separation means less ghosting as the shapes blend better into each other. Less separation is also easier on the eyes, but I can bear less separation on the poput side of things, so this might very well be offset. The image overall is very disturbance and ghosting free and does not tire me.

Did you notice how fast this model is? I tend to loose only a few FPS instead of being reduced to half fps (might be a wrong impression though as perhaps just starting tw2.exe in 3d by itself reduces fps, regardless of switchingsteeo 3d on or off later on; nevertheless it's fast enbough and always well above 30 fps, mostly evene 45 to 60, even with FXAA by "some-dude"). Do you use FXAA by "some_dude" with the game?

What bugs me though is that the mouse cursor is not automatically set to gui/hud popout level.

Btw I just enjoyed stereo 3d godrays of moonlight filtering all around the hero and Rogdor having a midnight conversation, just wowed me...
No problem - this is subjective I guess. I felt the same way that you do at first, but then it switched for me. I really suggest trying to move your hand/arm towards the screen and compare it in relation with all the things you see. Everything comes to life for me this way.



Concerning the Y-shape, this will depend on your engine.StereoFocal setting. For me it's definetly a "V" as even very far away objects are slightly shifted. Just increase e.g. the separation settings to 50/50 and you will notice how farther away objects are shifted stronger and more noticeably. This happens though the StereoFocal setting has not been changed, so it indicates that the lines were "V" before and just the angle increase a little, making it more noticable. Engine.StereoFocal detemines where the lower point of the "V" lies, wheras separation determines the distance between the two top points of the "V" or the angle between the lines, if you want. By pushing Engine.StereoFocal deeper into the screen, you lenghten the lines. If you still feel like "Y" just increase engine.StereoFocal (and, to actually see the already existing lien differenc better, also separation).



I agreee though that the effect is indeed better indoors than outdoors, probably because the two lines of the "V" come too close to each other in long range outdoor scenarios for the effect to fully click.



Due to a stronger 3d effect for popout side lines, much less separation is needed for an immersive 3d effect. Less separation means less ghosting as the shapes blend better into each other. Less separation is also easier on the eyes, but I can bear less separation on the poput side of things, so this might very well be offset. The image overall is very disturbance and ghosting free and does not tire me.



Did you notice how fast this model is? I tend to loose only a few FPS instead of being reduced to half fps (might be a wrong impression though as perhaps just starting tw2.exe in 3d by itself reduces fps, regardless of switchingsteeo 3d on or off later on; nevertheless it's fast enbough and always well above 30 fps, mostly evene 45 to 60, even with FXAA by "some-dude"). Do you use FXAA by "some_dude" with the game?



What bugs me though is that the mouse cursor is not automatically set to gui/hud popout level.



Btw I just enjoyed stereo 3d godrays of moonlight filtering all around the hero and Rogdor having a midnight conversation, just wowed me...

#33
Posted 09/13/2011 06:05 PM   
(Hey look the 'fast reply' has been improved!)

No Y? Hmmmm.... (fiddle fiddle)

OK, now I get it. I had my StereoFocal *way* too high. That made it seem like I was in a big, round room with landscape painted on the walls. Very distracting. I dropped it down to 450 (so objects on the horizon have a tiny bit of separation) and now it looks much better. It still does get rather flat in the distance, though. I'll keep fiddling.

I'm also getting no ghosting at all, but I can't tell you why. I tend to get at least a tiny bit of faint ghosting when there's something dark against a light background. There's plenty of separation to be able to pick it out. Especially in a shot like this one:
[attachment=22314:Contrast2.jps]

Those leaves should be a mess and the tree trunk should show a definite ghost. Maybe my monitor/glasses/emitter are just in a great moode today?
(Hey look the 'fast reply' has been improved!)



No Y? Hmmmm.... (fiddle fiddle)



OK, now I get it. I had my StereoFocal *way* too high. That made it seem like I was in a big, round room with landscape painted on the walls. Very distracting. I dropped it down to 450 (so objects on the horizon have a tiny bit of separation) and now it looks much better. It still does get rather flat in the distance, though. I'll keep fiddling.



I'm also getting no ghosting at all, but I can't tell you why. I tend to get at least a tiny bit of faint ghosting when there's something dark against a light background. There's plenty of separation to be able to pick it out. Especially in a shot like this one:

[attachment=22314:Contrast2.jps]



Those leaves should be a mess and the tree trunk should show a definite ghost. Maybe my monitor/glasses/emitter are just in a great moode today?

#34
Posted 09/14/2011 04:42 AM   
Being to lazy to switch between the "ofdr.exe" and the new integrated 3D system depending on the szenario I finally got stuck with the integrated 3D system. I got used to it after some time and thanks to Your autoexec2.con tweaks it offers acceptable depth.
Being to lazy to switch between the "ofdr.exe" and the new integrated 3D system depending on the szenario I finally got stuck with the integrated 3D system. I got used to it after some time and thanks to Your autoexec2.con tweaks it offers acceptable depth.

My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!

#35
Posted 09/14/2011 08:24 AM   
Fine to hear that both of you like it, too. It's unusual, I totally agree. But the more I get accustomed, the more I like it. I will play around more with my own StereoFocal setting, too.

Btw: By disabling hardware mouse cursor in ingame options and also disabling vsync, you can get a mouse cursor at gui/hud separation. Very nice.

I also made a mod over at insidetwoworlds.com that removes the minimap, which allows to push the hud/gui even more out of the screen without collision with the monitor border. This in turn allows for more overall separation before the main picture collides with the hud/gui.
Fine to hear that both of you like it, too. It's unusual, I totally agree. But the more I get accustomed, the more I like it. I will play around more with my own StereoFocal setting, too.



Btw: By disabling hardware mouse cursor in ingame options and also disabling vsync, you can get a mouse cursor at gui/hud separation. Very nice.



I also made a mod over at insidetwoworlds.com that removes the minimap, which allows to push the hud/gui even more out of the screen without collision with the monitor border. This in turn allows for more overall separation before the main picture collides with the hud/gui.

#36
Posted 09/14/2011 02:04 PM   
Great settings Bobarr! I had lost interest somewhat in this game shortly after I got it last year. But the working 3D and settings (along with many other ini tweaks) have breathed the game new life and I'm discovering a deep, fun, gaming experience. I get a good deal of convergence and very effective depth. 720P projector.
Great settings Bobarr! I had lost interest somewhat in this game shortly after I got it last year. But the working 3D and settings (along with many other ini tweaks) have breathed the game new life and I'm discovering a deep, fun, gaming experience. I get a good deal of convergence and very effective depth. 720P projector.

#37
Posted 09/17/2011 05:16 PM   
I am replaying TW2 right now, too - really great fun! Though - due to my involement - I am actually not that objective (;-)), there are some cool mods here:
[url="http://www.insidetwoworlds.com/showthread.php?t=32620"]http://www.insidetwoworlds.com/showthread.php?t=32620[/url]

I also updated my 3d settings again, thanks to all your feedback! I actually lowered engine.StereoFocal from 19200 to 2400. This, rather contrary to my above assumptions, leads to more separation and depth in the far distance. When going too low though, shadows break (are displayed at wrong depth). With 2400 shadows work perfect and depth is staggering combined with the other settings below (perhaps it can decreased even a tad further). Also I feel with vanilla stereo 3d settings, the shadows are already a little misplaced, something the devs probably should look into.

Anyhow, here we go:

Updated settings (changed engine.StereoFocal from 19200 to 2400):

//3D settings ranges (current values)
//min - settings=0, max - settings=50 def=default settings value

settings.StereoSeparationDef 0.75
settings.StereoSeparationMin 0.0
settings.StereoSeparationMax 4.5

settings.GUIStereoSeparationDef -0.015
settings.GUIStereoSeparationMin -0.16
settings.GUIStereoSeparationMax 0.0

engine.StereoFocal 2400

//ingame normal separation 15/50
// ingame hud/gui separation 15/50
// minimap modded out: [url="http://www.insidetwoworlds.com/showthread.php?t=33711"]http://www.insidetwoworlds.com/showthread.php?t=33711[/url]
// using FXAA by some_dude
// mouse cursor in software mode; vsync off
I am replaying TW2 right now, too - really great fun! Though - due to my involement - I am actually not that objective (;-)), there are some cool mods here:

http://www.insidetwoworlds.com/showthread.php?t=32620



I also updated my 3d settings again, thanks to all your feedback! I actually lowered engine.StereoFocal from 19200 to 2400. This, rather contrary to my above assumptions, leads to more separation and depth in the far distance. When going too low though, shadows break (are displayed at wrong depth). With 2400 shadows work perfect and depth is staggering combined with the other settings below (perhaps it can decreased even a tad further). Also I feel with vanilla stereo 3d settings, the shadows are already a little misplaced, something the devs probably should look into.



Anyhow, here we go:



Updated settings (changed engine.StereoFocal from 19200 to 2400):



//3D settings ranges (current values)

//min - settings=0, max - settings=50 def=default settings value



settings.StereoSeparationDef 0.75

settings.StereoSeparationMin 0.0

settings.StereoSeparationMax 4.5



settings.GUIStereoSeparationDef -0.015

settings.GUIStereoSeparationMin -0.16

settings.GUIStereoSeparationMax 0.0



engine.StereoFocal 2400



//ingame normal separation 15/50

// ingame hud/gui separation 15/50

// minimap modded out: http://www.insidetwoworlds.com/showthread.php?t=33711

// using FXAA by some_dude

// mouse cursor in software mode; vsync off

#38
Posted 09/18/2011 11:43 AM   
How do you get FXAA working correctly? It's only applying to 1 eye here...
How do you get FXAA working correctly? It's only applying to 1 eye here...

Current Rig: |Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.6GHz, EVGA X58 Classified 4-way SLI, 6 GB ram, Geforce GTX670| -> |Acer H5360 + Nvidia 3D Vision|

#39
Posted 09/18/2011 02:00 PM   
You're right, Xerion404. The left eye picture has more jaggies than the right eye one. I didn't even notice it beforehand. Nonetheless, it looks better than without FXAA. Using the inbuilt AA of the game does slook better as both imags are smoothed, but it makes the game rather unresponsive and brings hefty fps hit. I think I will stay with FXAA. But if somebody finds a better soltuion, I am more than eager to hear about it.
You're right, Xerion404. The left eye picture has more jaggies than the right eye one. I didn't even notice it beforehand. Nonetheless, it looks better than without FXAA. Using the inbuilt AA of the game does slook better as both imags are smoothed, but it makes the game rather unresponsive and brings hefty fps hit. I think I will stay with FXAA. But if somebody finds a better soltuion, I am more than eager to hear about it.

#40
Posted 09/18/2011 07:27 PM   
The built-in AA seems to work ok for me, so I have enabled that. The version of the FXAA injector I use has some other effects, including a tonemap one which really works much better at making the scene brighter while retaining colors than gamma control built into games. It also allows to compensate for the glasses' coloring. It's really nice in some other games I tried it, but here it's unusable because it applies only to 1 eye, which is the reason I quickly noticed it; a color difference between eyes is quite a bit more noticeable than the FXAA itself /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Now the reason why it doesn't work is probably because the game makes the stereoeffect itself during post processing and it happens before the FXAA and such are injected so it's only applying to 1 screen when there are 2 now. Perhaps this could be fixed by somehow injecting the FXAA before the game turns the scene into stereo or by applying the filter to both of the generated screens. The former would certainly result in better performance than the latter, but I really don't have any knowledge about how to implement either, if it's even possible at all.
The built-in AA seems to work ok for me, so I have enabled that. The version of the FXAA injector I use has some other effects, including a tonemap one which really works much better at making the scene brighter while retaining colors than gamma control built into games. It also allows to compensate for the glasses' coloring. It's really nice in some other games I tried it, but here it's unusable because it applies only to 1 eye, which is the reason I quickly noticed it; a color difference between eyes is quite a bit more noticeable than the FXAA itself /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



Now the reason why it doesn't work is probably because the game makes the stereoeffect itself during post processing and it happens before the FXAA and such are injected so it's only applying to 1 screen when there are 2 now. Perhaps this could be fixed by somehow injecting the FXAA before the game turns the scene into stereo or by applying the filter to both of the generated screens. The former would certainly result in better performance than the latter, but I really don't have any knowledge about how to implement either, if it's even possible at all.

Current Rig: |Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.6GHz, EVGA X58 Classified 4-way SLI, 6 GB ram, Geforce GTX670| -> |Acer H5360 + Nvidia 3D Vision|

#41
Posted 09/18/2011 08:03 PM   
Guys is it worth getting TW2 for the 3D? It is on offer on Steam. I dont have that much moolar so I can only pick certain games

Thanks!!!
Guys is it worth getting TW2 for the 3D? It is on offer on Steam. I dont have that much moolar so I can only pick certain games



Thanks!!!

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#42
Posted 09/20/2011 07:42 PM   
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='21 September 2011 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1316547748' post='1295995']
Guys is it worth getting TW2 for the 3D? It is on offer on Steam. I dont have that much moolar so I can only pick certain games

Thanks!!!
[/quote]

Bob, (hope that is your name), it is a good, solid RPG, and looks very beautiful. The world is huuuuuuuuuge. And full of variety. Combat is not too bad at all. Horses, Houses, Boats, Deserts, Jungles, Mountains, Sea... I like it :)
[quote name='andysonofbob' date='21 September 2011 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1316547748' post='1295995']

Guys is it worth getting TW2 for the 3D? It is on offer on Steam. I dont have that much moolar so I can only pick certain games



Thanks!!!





Bob, (hope that is your name), it is a good, solid RPG, and looks very beautiful. The world is huuuuuuuuuge. And full of variety. Combat is not too bad at all. Horses, Houses, Boats, Deserts, Jungles, Mountains, Sea... I like it :)

#43
Posted 09/20/2011 07:54 PM   
Cheers mate! Downloading.

I'm Andy, believe it or not; my old man is Bob.
Cheers mate! Downloading.



I'm Andy, believe it or not; my old man is Bob.

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM

Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes

#44
Posted 09/20/2011 08:24 PM   
The 3D is... different. A well done 'real' 3D would be better, IMHO, but I do think this kind of 3D is better than 'real' 3D with funky shadow and post processing anomolies.
The 3D is... different. A well done 'real' 3D would be better, IMHO, but I do think this kind of 3D is better than 'real' 3D with funky shadow and post processing anomolies.

#45
Posted 09/21/2011 12:28 AM   
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