It seems to be impossible to bitstream (ie: DTS Master) and use nVidia 3D Vision (in generic DLP mode) at the same time in Total Media Theater with 3D Blu-Ray.
The Audio fails, and the AV Receiver indicates "no signal", so picture but no sound.
I read elsewhere that the limitation was due to 3D+Bitstreaming requiring a HDMI 1.4 AV receiver because framepacking 3D modes require HDMI 1.4.
While all my AV components are HDMI 1.3, I'm using Checkerboard 3D mode which is entirely a HDMI 1.3 standard, so it should work.
In fact, I was able to briefly use bitstream + nVidia 3D Vision (set to generic dlp checkerboard) in TMT 3. But this stopped working once I restarted the PC.
This fluke proves checkerboard 3d mode can work together with HD bitstreaming. Indeed, CHECKERBOARD 3D is a HDMI 1.3 standard. There is no reason why it shouldn't work.
All my components are HDMI 1.3. The soundcard is Xonar HDAV 1.3 slim.
The current limitation is just artificially imposed with no reason.
What can we do?
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 8..17.12.6658
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
HDMI Connection: Video card > Asus Xonar HDMI > Receiver > TV
It seems to be impossible to bitstream (ie: DTS Master) and use nVidia 3D Vision (in generic DLP mode) at the same time in Total Media Theater with 3D Blu-Ray.
The Audio fails, and the AV Receiver indicates "no signal", so picture but no sound.
I read elsewhere that the limitation was due to 3D+Bitstreaming requiring a HDMI 1.4 AV receiver because framepacking 3D modes require HDMI 1.4.
While all my AV components are HDMI 1.3, I'm using Checkerboard 3D mode which is entirely a HDMI 1.3 standard, so it should work.
In fact, I was able to briefly use bitstream + nVidia 3D Vision (set to generic dlp checkerboard) in TMT 3. But this stopped working once I restarted the PC.
This fluke proves checkerboard 3d mode can work together with HD bitstreaming. Indeed, CHECKERBOARD 3D is a HDMI 1.3 standard. There is no reason why it shouldn't work.
All my components are HDMI 1.3. The soundcard is Xonar HDAV 1.3 slim.
The current limitation is just artificially imposed with no reason.
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Sounds like you've run into a HDMI handshaking problem of some sort. Just tons of headaches involved here with all the different specs and incompatibility issues out there. But ya it should still work if you're running checkerboard 3D, if anything its probably a software or driver block when running in 3D, but it may also be a limitation of your sound card in passing and framepacking the AV signal to your receiver.
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
Sounds like you've run into a HDMI handshaking problem of some sort. Just tons of headaches involved here with all the different specs and incompatibility issues out there. But ya it should still work if you're running checkerboard 3D, if anything its probably a software or driver block when running in 3D, but it may also be a limitation of your sound card in passing and framepacking the AV signal to your receiver.
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1300728116' post='1211176']
Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
[/quote]
1. PDVD10 doesn't support Xonar bitstream, so can't test.
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
3. Yes, regular video + HD audio bitstream works.
Here are all possible scenarios:
3D Vision + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio Fail (receiver indicates no audio signal)
3D Vision + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
2D + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio works
2D + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1300728116' post='1211176']
Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
1. PDVD10 doesn't support Xonar bitstream, so can't test.
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
3. Yes, regular video + HD audio bitstream works.
Here are all possible scenarios:
3D Vision + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio Fail (receiver indicates no audio signal)
3D Vision + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
[quote name='klau1' date='21 March 2011 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1300728415' post='1211180']
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
[/quote]
It shouldn't sound any different unless your receiver is applying additional sound field treatments after it decodes the DTS-MA stream, the only difference between LPCM in this case is that the software player is decoding the DTS-MA track rather than the receiver. The resulting decoded audio stream should be bit perfect to the original studio master whether its passed to the receiver as decoded LPCM or still encoded as DTS-MA to be decoded by the receiver.
As for why, its to simplify the tangled mess of HDMI devices in your ecosystem to narrow down the potential source of the problem. If you're not able to pass an HD audio signal direct from the onboard HD audio of your GTX 570, that'll give you a better lead that its a driver or player limitation in S3D. If it works, then its most likely an issue with your sound card's ability to pass a S3D + HD audio signal, but still could be a player issue not being able to handle both.
[quote name='klau1' date='21 March 2011 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1300728415' post='1211180']
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
It shouldn't sound any different unless your receiver is applying additional sound field treatments after it decodes the DTS-MA stream, the only difference between LPCM in this case is that the software player is decoding the DTS-MA track rather than the receiver. The resulting decoded audio stream should be bit perfect to the original studio master whether its passed to the receiver as decoded LPCM or still encoded as DTS-MA to be decoded by the receiver.
As for why, its to simplify the tangled mess of HDMI devices in your ecosystem to narrow down the potential source of the problem. If you're not able to pass an HD audio signal direct from the onboard HD audio of your GTX 570, that'll give you a better lead that its a driver or player limitation in S3D. If it works, then its most likely an issue with your sound card's ability to pass a S3D + HD audio signal, but still could be a player issue not being able to handle both.
We can't fix your bug if we can't reproduce it. Please provide as much details as possible including specs, steps to reproduce, graphics settings used, etc..
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Our software team has asked if you could possibly repeat the same test but instead use the NVIDIA HDMI audio instead of the Asus sound card to see if this issue reproduces. Technically speaking, this should work.
Our software team has asked if you could possibly repeat the same test but instead use the NVIDIA HDMI audio instead of the Asus sound card to see if this issue reproduces. Technically speaking, this should work.
We can't fix your bug if we can't reproduce it. Please provide as much details as possible including specs, steps to reproduce, graphics settings used, etc..
For GeForce driver issues, please leave feedback in driver feedback form: Driver Feedback
For GeForce Now PC issues, please fill out feedback form below: GFN PC Feedback
For SHIELD Android TV issues/requests, please leave feedback in the SHIELD feedback form: SHIELD Feedback
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1300728116' post='1211176']
Sounds like you've run into a HDMI handshaking problem of some sort. Just tons of headaches involved here with all the different specs and incompatibility issues out there. But ya it should still work if you're running checkerboard 3D, if anything its probably a software or driver block when running in 3D, but it may also be a limitation of your sound card in passing and framepacking the AV signal to your receiver.
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
[/quote]
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
[quote name='chiz' date='21 March 2011 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1300728116' post='1211176']
Sounds like you've run into a HDMI handshaking problem of some sort. Just tons of headaches involved here with all the different specs and incompatibility issues out there. But ya it should still work if you're running checkerboard 3D, if anything its probably a software or driver block when running in 3D, but it may also be a limitation of your sound card in passing and framepacking the AV signal to your receiver.
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
[quote name='photios' date='22 March 2011 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1300825292' post='1211792']
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
[/quote]
Hey photios, I remember you answered a bunch of questions for me with regard to the Gefen DVI Doctor and definitely saved me a few bucks and headaches with your help. :)
But ya the whole HDMI and HD audio/video situation is pretty convoluted atm and there's really no easy or perfect solution unfortunately due to current HDMI spec limitations. For example, even if a single device could handle the audio and video and pass to a receiver, that would solve the problem for HDMI 3D displays like HDTVs, but you'd still run into some potential problems with 120Hz input LCD desktop displays that require DL-DVI. I've heard some AV receivers will pass 120Hz signals with HD audio when using DVI to HDMI cable > AVR > HDMI to DVI cable > 120Hz LCD, but everything I've read indicates this is still extremely hit or miss depending on the receiver and display. There's few electronics that are more of a PITA to return due to incompatibilities or inability to perform necessary features than AVRs sadly, so the thought of trying to get this working is a bit scary atm.
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats. I guess the main benefit of outputting over HDMI on the HT HD is its able to output at up to 8ch LPCM @ 24/192 without ever being compressed, whereas DD and DTS are limited to much lower bit depths and bitrates. I guess the benefits here are somewhat questionable when most PC audio sources are 16/48 or 16/44.1 but I certainly notice some difference between the two on my modest set-up. The HT HD is probably the last discrete sound card I'll ever buy.
What I'd really like to see is a 3rd TMDS DisplayPort output instead of mini-HDMI on GeForce cards that can handle both HD Audio and 120Hz output. Anyone who still needs HDMI can use the DVI outputs and use a DVI to HDMI adapter. This would also potentially fix the requirement of 2xGPUs in SLI to output to 3D Vision Surround along with the 2x display limitation in desktop mode while in SLI. That's the main inconvenience for me while running in dummy passthrough mode, it eats up a display output which means I can't drive a 2nd monitor or run 3D Vision surround.
[quote name='photios' date='22 March 2011 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1300825292' post='1211792']
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
Hey photios, I remember you answered a bunch of questions for me with regard to the Gefen DVI Doctor and definitely saved me a few bucks and headaches with your help. :)
But ya the whole HDMI and HD audio/video situation is pretty convoluted atm and there's really no easy or perfect solution unfortunately due to current HDMI spec limitations. For example, even if a single device could handle the audio and video and pass to a receiver, that would solve the problem for HDMI 3D displays like HDTVs, but you'd still run into some potential problems with 120Hz input LCD desktop displays that require DL-DVI. I've heard some AV receivers will pass 120Hz signals with HD audio when using DVI to HDMI cable > AVR > HDMI to DVI cable > 120Hz LCD, but everything I've read indicates this is still extremely hit or miss depending on the receiver and display. There's few electronics that are more of a PITA to return due to incompatibilities or inability to perform necessary features than AVRs sadly, so the thought of trying to get this working is a bit scary atm.
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats. I guess the main benefit of outputting over HDMI on the HT HD is its able to output at up to 8ch LPCM @ 24/192 without ever being compressed, whereas DD and DTS are limited to much lower bit depths and bitrates. I guess the benefits here are somewhat questionable when most PC audio sources are 16/48 or 16/44.1 but I certainly notice some difference between the two on my modest set-up. The HT HD is probably the last discrete sound card I'll ever buy.
What I'd really like to see is a 3rd TMDS DisplayPort output instead of mini-HDMI on GeForce cards that can handle both HD Audio and 120Hz output. Anyone who still needs HDMI can use the DVI outputs and use a DVI to HDMI adapter. This would also potentially fix the requirement of 2xGPUs in SLI to output to 3D Vision Surround along with the 2x display limitation in desktop mode while in SLI. That's the main inconvenience for me while running in dummy passthrough mode, it eats up a display output which means I can't drive a 2nd monitor or run 3D Vision surround.
[quote name='ManuelG' date='22 March 2011 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1300818385' post='1211745']
Our software team has asked if you could possibly repeat the same test but instead use the NVIDIA HDMI audio instead of the Asus sound card to see if this issue reproduces. Technically speaking, this should work.
[/quote]
Thanks for getting back to me.
yes, I have tried nVidia HDMI. It does not support bitstreaming of HD codecs (ie: DTS Master). The nVidia HDMI can support LPCM & 3D, but so does Asus. LPCM + 3D working doesn't address the point of this thread.
The point of this thread is to get Bitstreaming of HD Audio + 3D working. Only Asus and Auzentech and ATi cards are capable of this. I have the Asus sound card.
If it helps your diagnostics, I have tested TMT's native DLP CHECKERBOARD mode setting and that results in 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming working. However, I don't have native 3D glasses for my DLP TV, I have 3D Vision Glasses instead, so TMT's direct CHECKERBOARD mode will not work for me.
Because I purchased nVidia's 3D Vision kit, I need to set TMT to 3D Vision mode, and let 3D Vision handle the CHECKERBOARD mode. But when I set TMT to nVidia 3D Vision, 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming fails. Specifically, the HD Audio Bitstreaming fails.
[quote name='ManuelG' date='22 March 2011 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1300818385' post='1211745']
Our software team has asked if you could possibly repeat the same test but instead use the NVIDIA HDMI audio instead of the Asus sound card to see if this issue reproduces. Technically speaking, this should work.
Thanks for getting back to me.
yes, I have tried nVidia HDMI. It does not support bitstreaming of HD codecs (ie: DTS Master). The nVidia HDMI can support LPCM & 3D, but so does Asus. LPCM + 3D working doesn't address the point of this thread.
The point of this thread is to get Bitstreaming of HD Audio + 3D working. Only Asus and Auzentech and ATi cards are capable of this. I have the Asus sound card.
If it helps your diagnostics, I have tested TMT's native DLP CHECKERBOARD mode setting and that results in 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming working. However, I don't have native 3D glasses for my DLP TV, I have 3D Vision Glasses instead, so TMT's direct CHECKERBOARD mode will not work for me.
Because I purchased nVidia's 3D Vision kit, I need to set TMT to 3D Vision mode, and let 3D Vision handle the CHECKERBOARD mode. But when I set TMT to nVidia 3D Vision, 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming fails. Specifically, the HD Audio Bitstreaming fails.
[quote name='chiz' date='22 March 2011 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1300834589' post='1211842']
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats.[/quote]
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) [i][b]over SPDIF and HDMI[/b][/i], regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
[quote name='chiz' date='22 March 2011 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1300834589' post='1211842']
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats.
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) over SPDIF and HDMI, regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Here's another tidbit: The whole soundcard industry (minus Creative perhaps) went backwards in my opinion after the early Nforce2 motherboards like the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe. These boards are basically the PC granddaddy version to the original Xbox motherboard. This Nforce2 motherboard supported Soundstorm technology, which encoded 5.1 for movies AND games. Why nobody else has duplicated this mentality I will never know. I know a few motherboards here and there that did, but nothing that became mainstream. The only thing missing from that early solution was that HDMI wasn't conceived yet so that you just needed to run a single cable.
Here's another tidbit: The whole soundcard industry (minus Creative perhaps) went backwards in my opinion after the early Nforce2 motherboards like the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe. These boards are basically the PC granddaddy version to the original Xbox motherboard. This Nforce2 motherboard supported Soundstorm technology, which encoded 5.1 for movies AND games. Why nobody else has duplicated this mentality I will never know. I know a few motherboards here and there that did, but nothing that became mainstream. The only thing missing from that early solution was that HDMI wasn't conceived yet so that you just needed to run a single cable.
[quote name='photios' date='23 March 2011 - 10:17 AM' timestamp='1300889873' post='1212084']
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) [i][b]over SPDIF and HDMI[/b][/i], regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Thank you,
photios
[/quote]
Hey photios I agree completely and would love to see the hardware catch up with the end-user's needs for an all-inclusive high-end HTPC sound solution. The main problem imo is that HDMI causes so many incompatibilities as the spec is almost always dated before its even ratified. Look at our current HDMI 1.4 situation, it can't even support 1080p @ 60Hz in S3D even though the wire is technically capable of handling the bandwidth reqs. /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' />
As for the multi-channel audio over HDMI, for a bit I was under the same impression for games, that we wouldn't get multi-channel surround over these onboard solutions but that's not the case for more recent games (last 2-3 years) that handle all of this in software and do all the mixing and positional sound on the CPU, then encode it real-time in Dolby Digital. A few users with the GTX 470/480s tested this for me and corrected me, there's multi-channel sound support in games that support software surround sound, which often (but not always) display the Dolby Digital logo when you start a game. I've also independently verified this on my rig for a few titles as well. Most of these games ofc are multi-platform so the sound engine and real-time surround sound implementation probably originated as console features that have started to become mainstream once ported to the PC.
There's still benefit of a more full-featured sound card like the HT HD, like the ability to add additional EAX effects and then re-encode, or to use the less lossy DTS Connect encoding as well as passing uncompressed 8ch LPCM instead of using the much lossier DD/DTS wrappers, along with the ability to use these features with older games that required EAX or hardware acceleration for multi-channel surround. But for many games nowadays that natively support software DD mixing/encoding, most of these HD onboard audio solutions (MB or GPU) are able to pass a Dolby Digital stream over HDMI or s/pdif to be decoded by an AVR. Now that most high-end PC/AV enthusiasts are shifting toward full-blown AVR set-ups and HD audio over HDMI, there's even less benefit of using a discrete sound card as the analog outputs get even less airtime than before.
[quote name='photios' date='23 March 2011 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1300892275' post='1212105']
Here's another tidbit: The whole soundcard industry (minus Creative perhaps) went backwards in my opinion after the early Nforce2 motherboards like the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe. These boards are basically the PC granddaddy version to the original Xbox motherboard. This Nforce2 motherboard supported Soundstorm technology, which encoded 5.1 for movies AND games. Why nobody else has duplicated this mentality I will never know. I know a few motherboards here and there that did, but nothing that became mainstream. The only thing missing from that early solution was that HDMI wasn't conceived yet so that you just needed to run a single cable.
[/quote]
Hahah not surprised you are familiar with SoundStorm, I was also a huge fan and early adopter of the A7N8X and also quickly drew parallels with its roots in the original Xbox. The XBox's ability to output Dolby Digital over s/pdif actually helped me come to some of my conclusions about the game's sound engine doing the multi-channel sound mixing and DD encoding in software, as we were able to get multi-channel positional surround sound without any discrete sound hardware (just the same Realtek codec chip you'd find on the A7N8X). At the time however, there were far fewer cross-over titles on the PC and most games did still require a SoundBlaster-based HW solution for multi-channel surround. SoundStorm was certainly the precursor to all of the real-time encoding features Creative brought to market years later with DDLive and DTS Connect. But ya that was certainly one of the highlights of Nvidia's otherwise mediocre ventures into the chipset business; after they stopped licensing/supporting SoundStorm on their boards I found very little reason to continue using their chipsets.
[quote name='photios' date='23 March 2011 - 10:17 AM' timestamp='1300889873' post='1212084']
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) over SPDIF and HDMI, regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Thank you,
photios
Hey photios I agree completely and would love to see the hardware catch up with the end-user's needs for an all-inclusive high-end HTPC sound solution. The main problem imo is that HDMI causes so many incompatibilities as the spec is almost always dated before its even ratified. Look at our current HDMI 1.4 situation, it can't even support 1080p @ 60Hz in S3D even though the wire is technically capable of handling the bandwidth reqs. /blarg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':/' />
As for the multi-channel audio over HDMI, for a bit I was under the same impression for games, that we wouldn't get multi-channel surround over these onboard solutions but that's not the case for more recent games (last 2-3 years) that handle all of this in software and do all the mixing and positional sound on the CPU, then encode it real-time in Dolby Digital. A few users with the GTX 470/480s tested this for me and corrected me, there's multi-channel sound support in games that support software surround sound, which often (but not always) display the Dolby Digital logo when you start a game. I've also independently verified this on my rig for a few titles as well. Most of these games ofc are multi-platform so the sound engine and real-time surround sound implementation probably originated as console features that have started to become mainstream once ported to the PC.
There's still benefit of a more full-featured sound card like the HT HD, like the ability to add additional EAX effects and then re-encode, or to use the less lossy DTS Connect encoding as well as passing uncompressed 8ch LPCM instead of using the much lossier DD/DTS wrappers, along with the ability to use these features with older games that required EAX or hardware acceleration for multi-channel surround. But for many games nowadays that natively support software DD mixing/encoding, most of these HD onboard audio solutions (MB or GPU) are able to pass a Dolby Digital stream over HDMI or s/pdif to be decoded by an AVR. Now that most high-end PC/AV enthusiasts are shifting toward full-blown AVR set-ups and HD audio over HDMI, there's even less benefit of using a discrete sound card as the analog outputs get even less airtime than before.
[quote name='photios' date='23 March 2011 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1300892275' post='1212105']
Here's another tidbit: The whole soundcard industry (minus Creative perhaps) went backwards in my opinion after the early Nforce2 motherboards like the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe. These boards are basically the PC granddaddy version to the original Xbox motherboard. This Nforce2 motherboard supported Soundstorm technology, which encoded 5.1 for movies AND games. Why nobody else has duplicated this mentality I will never know. I know a few motherboards here and there that did, but nothing that became mainstream. The only thing missing from that early solution was that HDMI wasn't conceived yet so that you just needed to run a single cable.
Hahah not surprised you are familiar with SoundStorm, I was also a huge fan and early adopter of the A7N8X and also quickly drew parallels with its roots in the original Xbox. The XBox's ability to output Dolby Digital over s/pdif actually helped me come to some of my conclusions about the game's sound engine doing the multi-channel sound mixing and DD encoding in software, as we were able to get multi-channel positional surround sound without any discrete sound hardware (just the same Realtek codec chip you'd find on the A7N8X). At the time however, there were far fewer cross-over titles on the PC and most games did still require a SoundBlaster-based HW solution for multi-channel surround. SoundStorm was certainly the precursor to all of the real-time encoding features Creative brought to market years later with DDLive and DTS Connect. But ya that was certainly one of the highlights of Nvidia's otherwise mediocre ventures into the chipset business; after they stopped licensing/supporting SoundStorm on their boards I found very little reason to continue using their chipsets.
[quote name='chiz' date='23 March 2011 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1300906349' post='1212179'][/quote]
chiz,
Thanks again for the response. Rather than continue to argue my point based on 2 year old knowledge when I built my i7/X58/QUAD-SLI machine, can you give me one game that you know of for sure that encodes dolby digital natively? I pretty much own everything, so I'd like to try it out and correct my thinking here using my onboard audio instead of the AZ HT HD.
Taking your argument to be true, then we will be at the mercy of the game dev to ensure that they encode the in game sound system correctly. I guess, that's not too bad considering that as technology advances, to NOT encode the sound correctly would probably be unthinkable. I guess that's best kind of assurance we could have. Anyways, having said that, you may very well be correct that this might be the last discrete "badass" soundcard we ever buy.
[quote name='chiz' date='23 March 2011 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1300906349' post='1212179']
chiz,
Thanks again for the response. Rather than continue to argue my point based on 2 year old knowledge when I built my i7/X58/QUAD-SLI machine, can you give me one game that you know of for sure that encodes dolby digital natively? I pretty much own everything, so I'd like to try it out and correct my thinking here using my onboard audio instead of the AZ HT HD.
Taking your argument to be true, then we will be at the mercy of the game dev to ensure that they encode the in game sound system correctly. I guess, that's not too bad considering that as technology advances, to NOT encode the sound correctly would probably be unthinkable. I guess that's best kind of assurance we could have. Anyways, having said that, you may very well be correct that this might be the last discrete "badass" soundcard we ever buy.
The Audio fails, and the AV Receiver indicates "no signal", so picture but no sound.
I read elsewhere that the limitation was due to 3D+Bitstreaming requiring a HDMI 1.4 AV receiver because framepacking 3D modes require HDMI 1.4.
While all my AV components are HDMI 1.3, I'm using Checkerboard 3D mode which is entirely a HDMI 1.3 standard, so it should work.
In fact, I was able to briefly use bitstream + nVidia 3D Vision (set to generic dlp checkerboard) in TMT 3. But this stopped working once I restarted the PC.
This fluke proves checkerboard 3d mode can work together with HD bitstreaming. Indeed, CHECKERBOARD 3D is a HDMI 1.3 standard. There is no reason why it shouldn't work.
All my components are HDMI 1.3. The soundcard is Xonar HDAV 1.3 slim.
The current limitation is just artificially imposed with no reason.
What can we do?
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 8..17.12.6658
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
HDMI Connection: Video card > Asus Xonar HDMI > Receiver > TV
The Audio fails, and the AV Receiver indicates "no signal", so picture but no sound.
I read elsewhere that the limitation was due to 3D+Bitstreaming requiring a HDMI 1.4 AV receiver because framepacking 3D modes require HDMI 1.4.
While all my AV components are HDMI 1.3, I'm using Checkerboard 3D mode which is entirely a HDMI 1.3 standard, so it should work.
In fact, I was able to briefly use bitstream + nVidia 3D Vision (set to generic dlp checkerboard) in TMT 3. But this stopped working once I restarted the PC.
This fluke proves checkerboard 3d mode can work together with HD bitstreaming. Indeed, CHECKERBOARD 3D is a HDMI 1.3 standard. There is no reason why it shouldn't work.
All my components are HDMI 1.3. The soundcard is Xonar HDAV 1.3 slim.
The current limitation is just artificially imposed with no reason.
What can we do?
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 8..17.12.6658
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
HDMI Connection: Video card > Asus Xonar HDMI > Receiver > TV
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 280.26
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI (see "Video Card CONNECTION" below for details)
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
Video Card CONNECTION:
GPU DVI1 > TV HDMI 3
GPU DVI2 > Xonar HDMI Soundcard > AV Receiver > TV HDMI 2
Installed EDID Hack (for those that have a non 3d AV receiver) @ http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191096
Installed UltraMon (tested on 3.1) (this is to simulate Desktop Clone and keep mouse on one monitor)
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Which graphics card are you using? OS?
[/quote]
Thanks for replying, much appreciated!
Here's the hardware info
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 8..17.12.6658
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
HDMI Connection: Video card > Asus Xonar HDMI > Receiver > TV
Which graphics card are you using? OS?
Thanks for replying, much appreciated!
Here's the hardware info
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 8..17.12.6658
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
HDMI Connection: Video card > Asus Xonar HDMI > Receiver > TV
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 280.26
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI (see "Video Card CONNECTION" below for details)
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
Video Card CONNECTION:
GPU DVI1 > TV HDMI 3
GPU DVI2 > Xonar HDMI Soundcard > AV Receiver > TV HDMI 2
Installed EDID Hack (for those that have a non 3d AV receiver) @ http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191096
Installed UltraMon (tested on 3.1) (this is to simulate Desktop Clone and keep mouse on one monitor)
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
[/quote]
1. PDVD10 doesn't support Xonar bitstream, so can't test.
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
3. Yes, regular video + HD audio bitstream works.
Here are all possible scenarios:
3D Vision + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio Fail (receiver indicates no audio signal)
3D Vision + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
2D + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio works
2D + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
1. PDVD10 doesn't support Xonar bitstream, so can't test.
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
3. Yes, regular video + HD audio bitstream works.
Here are all possible scenarios:
3D Vision + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio Fail (receiver indicates no audio signal)
3D Vision + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
2D + Bitstream (ie: DTS Master) = Audio works
2D + Regular audio (ie: DTS//DD) = Audio works
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 280.26
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI (see "Video Card CONNECTION" below for details)
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
Video Card CONNECTION:
GPU DVI1 > TV HDMI 3
GPU DVI2 > Xonar HDMI Soundcard > AV Receiver > TV HDMI 2
Installed EDID Hack (for those that have a non 3d AV receiver) @ http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191096
Installed UltraMon (tested on 3.1) (this is to simulate Desktop Clone and keep mouse on one monitor)
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
[/quote]
It shouldn't sound any different unless your receiver is applying additional sound field treatments after it decodes the DTS-MA stream, the only difference between LPCM in this case is that the software player is decoding the DTS-MA track rather than the receiver. The resulting decoded audio stream should be bit perfect to the original studio master whether its passed to the receiver as decoded LPCM or still encoded as DTS-MA to be decoded by the receiver.
As for why, its to simplify the tangled mess of HDMI devices in your ecosystem to narrow down the potential source of the problem. If you're not able to pass an HD audio signal direct from the onboard HD audio of your GTX 570, that'll give you a better lead that its a driver or player limitation in S3D. If it works, then its most likely an issue with your sound card's ability to pass a S3D + HD audio signal, but still could be a player issue not being able to handle both.
2. LPCM sounds so much worse than bitstream DTS Master (why?)
It shouldn't sound any different unless your receiver is applying additional sound field treatments after it decodes the DTS-MA stream, the only difference between LPCM in this case is that the software player is decoding the DTS-MA track rather than the receiver. The resulting decoded audio stream should be bit perfect to the original studio master whether its passed to the receiver as decoded LPCM or still encoded as DTS-MA to be decoded by the receiver.
As for why, its to simplify the tangled mess of HDMI devices in your ecosystem to narrow down the potential source of the problem. If you're not able to pass an HD audio signal direct from the onboard HD audio of your GTX 570, that'll give you a better lead that its a driver or player limitation in S3D. If it works, then its most likely an issue with your sound card's ability to pass a S3D + HD audio signal, but still could be a player issue not being able to handle both.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
We can't fix your bug if we can't reproduce it. Please provide as much details as possible including specs, steps to reproduce, graphics settings used, etc..
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We can't fix your bug if we can't reproduce it. Please provide as much details as possible including specs, steps to reproduce, graphics settings used, etc..
For GeForce driver issues, please leave feedback in driver feedback form: Driver Feedback
For GeForce Now PC issues, please fill out feedback form below:
GFN PC Feedback
For SHIELD Android TV issues/requests, please leave feedback in the SHIELD feedback form: SHIELD Feedback
I am also available on Twitter:
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Sounds like you've run into a HDMI handshaking problem of some sort. Just tons of headaches involved here with all the different specs and incompatibility issues out there. But ya it should still work if you're running checkerboard 3D, if anything its probably a software or driver block when running in 3D, but it may also be a limitation of your sound card in passing and framepacking the AV signal to your receiver.
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
[/quote]
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
Sounds like you've run into a HDMI handshaking problem of some sort. Just tons of headaches involved here with all the different specs and incompatibility issues out there. But ya it should still work if you're running checkerboard 3D, if anything its probably a software or driver block when running in 3D, but it may also be a limitation of your sound card in passing and framepacking the AV signal to your receiver.
I would try PowerDVD Ultra 10 trial to see if its just a TMT issue. I'd also try running just the audio from your GTX 570 to your Receiver and bypass the soundcard completely. While it'll only be LPCM you'll at least be able to see if you're able to get an HD audio stream with 3D in your hardware/software ecosystem. Also, not sure if your sound card supports a "dummy" passthrough mode, but my Auzen HT HD does where it'll pass an HD audio bitstream with a dummy video signal from the GPU which allows the main video output to bypass all the HDMI devices and go straight to the display (sound card, receiver). I'm also assuming everything works with video + HD audio when 3D checkerboard is disabled?
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
[/quote]
Hey photios, I remember you answered a bunch of questions for me with regard to the Gefen DVI Doctor and definitely saved me a few bucks and headaches with your help. :)
But ya the whole HDMI and HD audio/video situation is pretty convoluted atm and there's really no easy or perfect solution unfortunately due to current HDMI spec limitations. For example, even if a single device could handle the audio and video and pass to a receiver, that would solve the problem for HDMI 3D displays like HDTVs, but you'd still run into some potential problems with 120Hz input LCD desktop displays that require DL-DVI. I've heard some AV receivers will pass 120Hz signals with HD audio when using DVI to HDMI cable > AVR > HDMI to DVI cable > 120Hz LCD, but everything I've read indicates this is still extremely hit or miss depending on the receiver and display. There's few electronics that are more of a PITA to return due to incompatibilities or inability to perform necessary features than AVRs sadly, so the thought of trying to get this working is a bit scary atm.
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats. I guess the main benefit of outputting over HDMI on the HT HD is its able to output at up to 8ch LPCM @ 24/192 without ever being compressed, whereas DD and DTS are limited to much lower bit depths and bitrates. I guess the benefits here are somewhat questionable when most PC audio sources are 16/48 or 16/44.1 but I certainly notice some difference between the two on my modest set-up. The HT HD is probably the last discrete sound card I'll ever buy.
What I'd really like to see is a 3rd TMDS DisplayPort output instead of mini-HDMI on GeForce cards that can handle both HD Audio and 120Hz output. Anyone who still needs HDMI can use the DVI outputs and use a DVI to HDMI adapter. This would also potentially fix the requirement of 2xGPUs in SLI to output to 3D Vision Surround along with the 2x display limitation in desktop mode while in SLI. That's the main inconvenience for me while running in dummy passthrough mode, it eats up a display output which means I can't drive a 2nd monitor or run 3D Vision surround.
Yep this is exactly how I do it. For a while I was using a GEFEN DVI doctor, which allowed me to clone my main displays EDID onto it and Run straight from my top GTX 295 out to Gefen DVI Doctor --> Auzentech HT HD --> Sony HD Receiver --> DLP TV using one single line instead of two. Problem is is that my Sony Receiver will NOT DO simple HDMI pass through and so the output resolution must match the capability of what the Sony Receiver can handle. The Sony will upscale 640 x 480, 1280 x 720, 1360 x 765, 1600 x 900 to 1080p (all forms thereof). This means if I want to run an old game at 1024x768, 1280x1024 or any other 4:3 resolution (not including 480p resolutions), my Sony receiver blocks it. Not a problem for new games, except when you're initially having to start up a game for the first time and it defaults to 1024x768 (what a headache). Anyways I went back to the old method of having the top GTX 295 straight to the DLP TV and then the 2nd GTX 295 follows the path of the Auzentech HT HD, Sony, and then to the TV. This creates Extended Desktop Mode, but it should allow the user to get 3D Video and HD Audio. It's a clumsy method, but it works and works quite well.
What Nvidia needs to do in their next gen GPU is allow the GPU to bitstream ALL audio over a single HDMI even if one has a Sound Card that is capable of doing...everything (DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, EAX HD, Dolby Digital Live Encoding for 5.1 in game). I refuse to use the onboard audio just to get DTS MASTER HD and Dolby True HD for movies yet sacrifice having 5.1 in games because most onboard won't do Dolby Digital Live Encoding, nor modern versions of EAX HD.
This truly needs to be worked on better for a simple solution, because having 3D Video and HD audio AND EAX/DDL for games is a MUST need for the next gen tech and it needs to be a solution that is EASY. There's no reason whatsoever for one to have to run two different lines to get a unfied solution. There are those of us who want a unified solution where this involves having the best visuals AND audio in both movies AND games.
Hey photios, I remember you answered a bunch of questions for me with regard to the Gefen DVI Doctor and definitely saved me a few bucks and headaches with your help. :)
But ya the whole HDMI and HD audio/video situation is pretty convoluted atm and there's really no easy or perfect solution unfortunately due to current HDMI spec limitations. For example, even if a single device could handle the audio and video and pass to a receiver, that would solve the problem for HDMI 3D displays like HDTVs, but you'd still run into some potential problems with 120Hz input LCD desktop displays that require DL-DVI. I've heard some AV receivers will pass 120Hz signals with HD audio when using DVI to HDMI cable > AVR > HDMI to DVI cable > 120Hz LCD, but everything I've read indicates this is still extremely hit or miss depending on the receiver and display. There's few electronics that are more of a PITA to return due to incompatibilities or inability to perform necessary features than AVRs sadly, so the thought of trying to get this working is a bit scary atm.
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats. I guess the main benefit of outputting over HDMI on the HT HD is its able to output at up to 8ch LPCM @ 24/192 without ever being compressed, whereas DD and DTS are limited to much lower bit depths and bitrates. I guess the benefits here are somewhat questionable when most PC audio sources are 16/48 or 16/44.1 but I certainly notice some difference between the two on my modest set-up. The HT HD is probably the last discrete sound card I'll ever buy.
What I'd really like to see is a 3rd TMDS DisplayPort output instead of mini-HDMI on GeForce cards that can handle both HD Audio and 120Hz output. Anyone who still needs HDMI can use the DVI outputs and use a DVI to HDMI adapter. This would also potentially fix the requirement of 2xGPUs in SLI to output to 3D Vision Surround along with the 2x display limitation in desktop mode while in SLI. That's the main inconvenience for me while running in dummy passthrough mode, it eats up a display output which means I can't drive a 2nd monitor or run 3D Vision surround.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
Our software team has asked if you could possibly repeat the same test but instead use the NVIDIA HDMI audio instead of the Asus sound card to see if this issue reproduces. Technically speaking, this should work.
[/quote]
Thanks for getting back to me.
yes, I have tried nVidia HDMI. It does not support bitstreaming of HD codecs (ie: DTS Master). The nVidia HDMI can support LPCM & 3D, but so does Asus. LPCM + 3D working doesn't address the point of this thread.
The point of this thread is to get Bitstreaming of HD Audio + 3D working. Only Asus and Auzentech and ATi cards are capable of this. I have the Asus sound card.
If it helps your diagnostics, I have tested TMT's native DLP CHECKERBOARD mode setting and that results in 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming working. However, I don't have native 3D glasses for my DLP TV, I have 3D Vision Glasses instead, so TMT's direct CHECKERBOARD mode will not work for me.
Because I purchased nVidia's 3D Vision kit, I need to set TMT to 3D Vision mode, and let 3D Vision handle the CHECKERBOARD mode. But when I set TMT to nVidia 3D Vision, 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming fails. Specifically, the HD Audio Bitstreaming fails.
Our software team has asked if you could possibly repeat the same test but instead use the NVIDIA HDMI audio instead of the Asus sound card to see if this issue reproduces. Technically speaking, this should work.
Thanks for getting back to me.
yes, I have tried nVidia HDMI. It does not support bitstreaming of HD codecs (ie: DTS Master). The nVidia HDMI can support LPCM & 3D, but so does Asus. LPCM + 3D working doesn't address the point of this thread.
The point of this thread is to get Bitstreaming of HD Audio + 3D working. Only Asus and Auzentech and ATi cards are capable of this. I have the Asus sound card.
If it helps your diagnostics, I have tested TMT's native DLP CHECKERBOARD mode setting and that results in 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming working. However, I don't have native 3D glasses for my DLP TV, I have 3D Vision Glasses instead, so TMT's direct CHECKERBOARD mode will not work for me.
Because I purchased nVidia's 3D Vision kit, I need to set TMT to 3D Vision mode, and let 3D Vision handle the CHECKERBOARD mode. But when I set TMT to nVidia 3D Vision, 3D + HD Audio Bitstreaming fails. Specifically, the HD Audio Bitstreaming fails.
Environment:
1. CPU : Intel i5 2500K
2. Graphics card driver version: Nvidia GTX570 280.26
3. Sound card and driver version : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim 7.12.8.1792
4. Motherboard: Asus P8P67
5. Monitor model and name: Samsung 3D LED DLP HL67A750
6. Connector. (HDMI? VGA? DVI?): DVI>HDMI (see "Video Card CONNECTION" below for details)
7. Screen resolution and refresh rate : 1920X1080 60Hz
8. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR876
9. TMT: 3.0.1.185
10: 3D mode: nVidia 3D Vision (generic dlp mode)
11. OS: Windows 7 x64
Video Card CONNECTION:
GPU DVI1 > TV HDMI 3
GPU DVI2 > Xonar HDMI Soundcard > AV Receiver > TV HDMI 2
Installed EDID Hack (for those that have a non 3d AV receiver) @ http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191096
Installed UltraMon (tested on 3.1) (this is to simulate Desktop Clone and keep mouse on one monitor)
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats.[/quote]
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) [i][b]over SPDIF and HDMI[/b][/i], regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Thank you,
photios
As for a single device handling all audio formats, the onboard HD audio on newer GeForce cards (GF104/114) do support all HD audio decoding like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. ATI Radeon cards have as well since the 5-series I believe. Unfortunately, the higher end GF100/GF110 can only output 8ch LPCM so you'd need your software player to do the DTS-MA/TrueHD decode first. While I certainly use and appreciate the DDLive/DTS Connect features of the Auzentech HT HD like you do for older games that still require EAX for positional or multichannel surround sound, the reality of it is most newer games handle all of these effects in software, and since you're most likely trying to output a digital stream to be decoded by your AVR anyways, the benefit of a dedicated sound card diminishes with each new generation of games. I know most of my newer games, especially cross-platform titles that also have console versions, support Dolby Digital surround sound natively without the need for EAX or hardware acceleration. The HT HD can add additional EAX and EQ effects and then re-encode and output to DD or DTS but the need for a dedicated sound card are greatly diminished, especially now that the GPU can handle most HD audio formats.
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) over SPDIF and HDMI, regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Thank you,
photios
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) [i][b]over SPDIF and HDMI[/b][/i], regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Thank you,
photios
[/quote]
Hey photios I agree completely and would love to see the hardware catch up with the end-user's needs for an all-inclusive high-end HTPC sound solution. The main problem imo is that HDMI causes so many incompatibilities as the spec is almost always dated before its even ratified. Look at our current HDMI 1.4 situation, it can't even support 1080p @ 60Hz in S3D even though the wire is technically capable of handling the bandwidth reqs.
As for the multi-channel audio over HDMI, for a bit I was under the same impression for games, that we wouldn't get multi-channel surround over these onboard solutions but that's not the case for more recent games (last 2-3 years) that handle all of this in software and do all the mixing and positional sound on the CPU, then encode it real-time in Dolby Digital. A few users with the GTX 470/480s tested this for me and corrected me, there's multi-channel sound support in games that support software surround sound, which often (but not always) display the Dolby Digital logo when you start a game. I've also independently verified this on my rig for a few titles as well. Most of these games ofc are multi-platform so the sound engine and real-time surround sound implementation probably originated as console features that have started to become mainstream once ported to the PC.
There's still benefit of a more full-featured sound card like the HT HD, like the ability to add additional EAX effects and then re-encode, or to use the less lossy DTS Connect encoding as well as passing uncompressed 8ch LPCM instead of using the much lossier DD/DTS wrappers, along with the ability to use these features with older games that required EAX or hardware acceleration for multi-channel surround. But for many games nowadays that natively support software DD mixing/encoding, most of these HD onboard audio solutions (MB or GPU) are able to pass a Dolby Digital stream over HDMI or s/pdif to be decoded by an AVR. Now that most high-end PC/AV enthusiasts are shifting toward full-blown AVR set-ups and HD audio over HDMI, there's even less benefit of using a discrete sound card as the analog outputs get even less airtime than before.
[quote name='photios' date='23 March 2011 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1300892275' post='1212105']
Here's another tidbit: The whole soundcard industry (minus Creative perhaps) went backwards in my opinion after the early Nforce2 motherboards like the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe. These boards are basically the PC granddaddy version to the original Xbox motherboard. This Nforce2 motherboard supported Soundstorm technology, which encoded 5.1 for movies AND games. Why nobody else has duplicated this mentality I will never know. I know a few motherboards here and there that did, but nothing that became mainstream. The only thing missing from that early solution was that HDMI wasn't conceived yet so that you just needed to run a single cable.
[/quote]
Hahah not surprised you are familiar with SoundStorm, I was also a huge fan and early adopter of the A7N8X and also quickly drew parallels with its roots in the original Xbox. The XBox's ability to output Dolby Digital over s/pdif actually helped me come to some of my conclusions about the game's sound engine doing the multi-channel sound mixing and DD encoding in software, as we were able to get multi-channel positional surround sound without any discrete sound hardware (just the same Realtek codec chip you'd find on the A7N8X). At the time however, there were far fewer cross-over titles on the PC and most games did still require a SoundBlaster-based HW solution for multi-channel surround. SoundStorm was certainly the precursor to all of the real-time encoding features Creative brought to market years later with DDLive and DTS Connect. But ya that was certainly one of the highlights of Nvidia's otherwise mediocre ventures into the chipset business; after they stopped licensing/supporting SoundStorm on their boards I found very little reason to continue using their chipsets.
chiz,
Thanks for your response. Your competence is always most appreciated.
I'm not sure this is going to do quite the work you think it is. It's close but it's not going to give you everything you need to encompass a unified solution that I have with my current setup.
The problem as far as I see it isn't that the GF 104/114 aren't able to support all HD audio decoding for watching movies but that if you are using onboard sound say on the X58 or P55 motherboard over HDMI or SPDIF (if you have a 200 series card which requires running SPDIF directly to receiver via the back of the motherboard I/O or running the spdif 2-pin to the graphics card) you are dead stuck to 2 ch LPCM over this medium IN GAMES (analog is a different story, but not desirable or practical for a HTPC). Most of these boards are versions of Realtek HD Audio. This has been pretty well documented on EVGA forums and AVSForums as well. The rule of thumb has been, that although you will be able to get discrete multi-channel sound in movies because the dvd or blu-ray is encoded with 5.1 and the Realtek just acts as pass-through HDMI or SPDIF, you will not be able to get 5.1 in game without an X-fi or competitor equivalent (some of the newer Realtek might be able to support this too with DDL, not sure) over SPDIF and HDMI, regardless if the game supports positional audio or not, and that's the rub. The game would have to functionally do the encoding of what DDL does, but then it would just be DDL built in. This would mean that games would be coded to bitstream all audio w/the sound card/graphics card acting as pass through like in blurays and dvds to then be decoded by a 5.1 or higher receiver. I don't know of games that do this as a functional DDL, please inform me otherwise. The only other option for encoding the signal as far as I am aware is if you have a HT receiver that is capable of encoding the signal to 5.1, but most don't have such a receiver. So, hence, DDL is needed. Let's face it here as well, there is no comparison between the quality that the Auzentech HT HD can do in game (thanks to the X-fi chip) and ANY onboard audio.
By my lights, the issue isn't just the need for better software, but a unified hardware solution as well. Unless they start putting X-fi equivalent (keyword: equivalent) chips on motherboards, you can't get a unified solution to what we have, and what we have is a bit awkward and clumsy and more expensive (e.g. the additiional cables needed to accomplish the task for running two lines, GEFEN DVI Doctor's, etc.). So, I think that what I said still stands concerning 5.1 for games. Please offer a correction if you know differently.
PC gaming has been slowly, albeit surely, transitioning from the desktop to that of the living room/man room couch for the enthusiast. Nobody has nailed the solution hardware wise yet that is simple and straight forward.
Thank you,
photios
Hey photios I agree completely and would love to see the hardware catch up with the end-user's needs for an all-inclusive high-end HTPC sound solution. The main problem imo is that HDMI causes so many incompatibilities as the spec is almost always dated before its even ratified. Look at our current HDMI 1.4 situation, it can't even support 1080p @ 60Hz in S3D even though the wire is technically capable of handling the bandwidth reqs.
As for the multi-channel audio over HDMI, for a bit I was under the same impression for games, that we wouldn't get multi-channel surround over these onboard solutions but that's not the case for more recent games (last 2-3 years) that handle all of this in software and do all the mixing and positional sound on the CPU, then encode it real-time in Dolby Digital. A few users with the GTX 470/480s tested this for me and corrected me, there's multi-channel sound support in games that support software surround sound, which often (but not always) display the Dolby Digital logo when you start a game. I've also independently verified this on my rig for a few titles as well. Most of these games ofc are multi-platform so the sound engine and real-time surround sound implementation probably originated as console features that have started to become mainstream once ported to the PC.
There's still benefit of a more full-featured sound card like the HT HD, like the ability to add additional EAX effects and then re-encode, or to use the less lossy DTS Connect encoding as well as passing uncompressed 8ch LPCM instead of using the much lossier DD/DTS wrappers, along with the ability to use these features with older games that required EAX or hardware acceleration for multi-channel surround. But for many games nowadays that natively support software DD mixing/encoding, most of these HD onboard audio solutions (MB or GPU) are able to pass a Dolby Digital stream over HDMI or s/pdif to be decoded by an AVR. Now that most high-end PC/AV enthusiasts are shifting toward full-blown AVR set-ups and HD audio over HDMI, there's even less benefit of using a discrete sound card as the analog outputs get even less airtime than before.
[quote name='photios' date='23 March 2011 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1300892275' post='1212105']
Here's another tidbit: The whole soundcard industry (minus Creative perhaps) went backwards in my opinion after the early Nforce2 motherboards like the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe. These boards are basically the PC granddaddy version to the original Xbox motherboard. This Nforce2 motherboard supported Soundstorm technology, which encoded 5.1 for movies AND games. Why nobody else has duplicated this mentality I will never know. I know a few motherboards here and there that did, but nothing that became mainstream. The only thing missing from that early solution was that HDMI wasn't conceived yet so that you just needed to run a single cable.
Hahah not surprised you are familiar with SoundStorm, I was also a huge fan and early adopter of the A7N8X and also quickly drew parallels with its roots in the original Xbox. The XBox's ability to output Dolby Digital over s/pdif actually helped me come to some of my conclusions about the game's sound engine doing the multi-channel sound mixing and DD encoding in software, as we were able to get multi-channel positional surround sound without any discrete sound hardware (just the same Realtek codec chip you'd find on the A7N8X). At the time however, there were far fewer cross-over titles on the PC and most games did still require a SoundBlaster-based HW solution for multi-channel surround. SoundStorm was certainly the precursor to all of the real-time encoding features Creative brought to market years later with DDLive and DTS Connect. But ya that was certainly one of the highlights of Nvidia's otherwise mediocre ventures into the chipset business; after they stopped licensing/supporting SoundStorm on their boards I found very little reason to continue using their chipsets.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
chiz,
Thanks again for the response. Rather than continue to argue my point based on 2 year old knowledge when I built my i7/X58/QUAD-SLI machine, can you give me one game that you know of for sure that encodes dolby digital natively? I pretty much own everything, so I'd like to try it out and correct my thinking here using my onboard audio instead of the AZ HT HD.
Taking your argument to be true, then we will be at the mercy of the game dev to ensure that they encode the in game sound system correctly. I guess, that's not too bad considering that as technology advances, to NOT encode the sound correctly would probably be unthinkable. I guess that's best kind of assurance we could have. Anyways, having said that, you may very well be correct that this might be the last discrete "badass" soundcard we ever buy.
Best,
photios
chiz,
Thanks again for the response. Rather than continue to argue my point based on 2 year old knowledge when I built my i7/X58/QUAD-SLI machine, can you give me one game that you know of for sure that encodes dolby digital natively? I pretty much own everything, so I'd like to try it out and correct my thinking here using my onboard audio instead of the AZ HT HD.
Taking your argument to be true, then we will be at the mercy of the game dev to ensure that they encode the in game sound system correctly. I guess, that's not too bad considering that as technology advances, to NOT encode the sound correctly would probably be unthinkable. I guess that's best kind of assurance we could have. Anyways, having said that, you may very well be correct that this might be the last discrete "badass" soundcard we ever buy.
Best,
photios