Ever getting rid of Ghosting?
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[quote name='fish99' post='1001663' date='Feb 15 2010, 12:55 PM']If the nvidia glasses were the main issue you would get ghosting across the board with every type of screen. The fact that PJs and DLPs have a lot less ghosting than CRT/LCD tells us the screens are the main factor.[/quote]

I just find it a bit strange because nvidia is marketing the samsung syncmaster as the screen "that is made" for 3d gaming. And still it has very much ghosting compared to other screens?
[quote name='fish99' post='1001663' date='Feb 15 2010, 12:55 PM']If the nvidia glasses were the main issue you would get ghosting across the board with every type of screen. The fact that PJs and DLPs have a lot less ghosting than CRT/LCD tells us the screens are the main factor.



I just find it a bit strange because nvidia is marketing the samsung syncmaster as the screen "that is made" for 3d gaming. And still it has very much ghosting compared to other screens?

#16
Posted 02/17/2010 06:12 PM   
no ghosting on my Dlp on games that support 3d vision at max depth- and the effect is amazing- games that dont- thats a different story (i have to play with the settings a bit). I would have gotten a Dlp projector but none of the 3d now supported models do 1080p. Im hoping that changes soon.
no ghosting on my Dlp on games that support 3d vision at max depth- and the effect is amazing- games that dont- thats a different story (i have to play with the settings a bit). I would have gotten a Dlp projector but none of the 3d now supported models do 1080p. Im hoping that changes soon.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#17
Posted 02/17/2010 08:27 PM   
The glasses indeed ghost more than other glasses. I've done a A/B test with the same setup (Acer H5360) with Nvidia glasses and with XpanD glasses. The first ones ghost a bit (less than with the 120Hz lcd's), the second ones don't. Simple ;)
The glasses indeed ghost more than other glasses. I've done a A/B test with the same setup (Acer H5360) with Nvidia glasses and with XpanD glasses. The first ones ghost a bit (less than with the 120Hz lcd's), the second ones don't. Simple ;)

#18
Posted 02/18/2010 01:01 AM   
how many games do those glasses support? what drivers are you using? are you using the nvidia emitter or did you buy the 700$ XpanD glasses and emitter? I thought the ghosting was because of CTR and lcd technology not being up to the task? How come i get zero ghosting with a DLP tv?

[quote name='rikun' post='1003326' date='Feb 17 2010, 05:01 PM']The glasses indeed ghost more than other glasses. I've done a A/B test with the same setup (Acer H5360) with Nvidia glasses and with XpanD glasses. The first ones ghost a bit (less than with the 120Hz lcd's), the second ones don't. Simple ;)[/quote]
how many games do those glasses support? what drivers are you using? are you using the nvidia emitter or did you buy the 700$ XpanD glasses and emitter? I thought the ghosting was because of CTR and lcd technology not being up to the task? How come i get zero ghosting with a DLP tv?



[quote name='rikun' post='1003326' date='Feb 17 2010, 05:01 PM']The glasses indeed ghost more than other glasses. I've done a A/B test with the same setup (Acer H5360) with Nvidia glasses and with XpanD glasses. The first ones ghost a bit (less than with the 120Hz lcd's), the second ones don't. Simple ;)

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#19
Posted 02/18/2010 05:10 AM   
See that fish99 another user who has 2 different glasses and again states less ghosting on the non nvidia pair, I don't understand why people want to keep defending Nvidia.
The facts stare you in the face , don't worry we all spent alot of money on this piece of frustrating tech and some spent more than others.
See that fish99 another user who has 2 different glasses and again states less ghosting on the non nvidia pair, I don't understand why people want to keep defending Nvidia.

The facts stare you in the face , don't worry we all spent alot of money on this piece of frustrating tech and some spent more than others.

#20
Posted 02/18/2010 11:12 AM   
[quote name='bullripper' post='1003556' date='Feb 18 2010, 12:12 PM']See that fish99 another user who has 2 different glasses and again states less ghosting on the non nvidia pair, I don't understand why people want to keep defending Nvidia.
The facts stare you in the face , don't worry we all spent alot of money on this piece of frustrating tech and some spent more than others.[/quote]

There is always one more point of view....

Keep in mind, that you have more lumen loss with the xpand.
For people who use a beamer, this is be to consider....


Steven
[quote name='bullripper' post='1003556' date='Feb 18 2010, 12:12 PM']See that fish99 another user who has 2 different glasses and again states less ghosting on the non nvidia pair, I don't understand why people want to keep defending Nvidia.

The facts stare you in the face , don't worry we all spent alot of money on this piece of frustrating tech and some spent more than others.



There is always one more point of view....



Keep in mind, that you have more lumen loss with the xpand.

For people who use a beamer, this is be to consider....





Steven

#21
Posted 02/18/2010 12:54 PM   
DLP is the way to go for sure. It's amazing the difference in quality
when there is no ghosting to distract you.
DLP is the way to go for sure. It's amazing the difference in quality

when there is no ghosting to distract you.

#22
Posted 02/18/2010 05:49 PM   
ya and the expand cost 750$$!! and it does not support very much content at this time- there is little information on the net on these. The other guy talking about these glasses leaves very little information in a vague post- we dont even know if these glasses can work at all with pc gaming.

I could care less about defending a company. im no fanboy. if it was the glasses how come they work perfectly with DLP? There are inerrant issues making LCD and CTR technology work very well with 3dvision. 3d is new and this is part of the teething process. I fount some good explanations on ghosting on the MTBS 3d forums- check it out. The bottom line is- lcd and crt are not up to the task due to the current design- and/or it is allot more difficult to get working properly for many users and hardware designs

I understand this must be frustrating for many users- and i totally sympathize with you. The next generation of 3d ready tv's and monitors will hopefully solve this issue.
ya and the expand cost 750$$!! and it does not support very much content at this time- there is little information on the net on these. The other guy talking about these glasses leaves very little information in a vague post- we dont even know if these glasses can work at all with pc gaming.



I could care less about defending a company. im no fanboy. if it was the glasses how come they work perfectly with DLP? There are inerrant issues making LCD and CTR technology work very well with 3dvision. 3d is new and this is part of the teething process. I fount some good explanations on ghosting on the MTBS 3d forums- check it out. The bottom line is- lcd and crt are not up to the task due to the current design- and/or it is allot more difficult to get working properly for many users and hardware designs



I understand this must be frustrating for many users- and i totally sympathize with you. The next generation of 3d ready tv's and monitors will hopefully solve this issue.

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#23
Posted 02/18/2010 07:18 PM   
[quote name='bullripper' post='1003556' date='Feb 18 2010, 03:12 AM']See that fish99 another user who has 2 different glasses and again states less ghosting on the non nvidia pair, I don't understand why people want to keep defending Nvidia.
The facts stare you in the face , don't worry we all spent alot of money on this piece of frustrating tech and some spent more than others.[/quote]
I agree, I saw no stereo extinction issues on DLP's with the nvidia glasses so I doubt it's as simple as that. Brightness can be traded off against stereo extinction so that's clearly a possibility that doesn't infer bad hardware on either maker's part. And I'm far from an nVidia apologist on this issue. But there's probably something else going on here.
[quote name='bullripper' post='1003556' date='Feb 18 2010, 03:12 AM']See that fish99 another user who has 2 different glasses and again states less ghosting on the non nvidia pair, I don't understand why people want to keep defending Nvidia.

The facts stare you in the face , don't worry we all spent alot of money on this piece of frustrating tech and some spent more than others.

I agree, I saw no stereo extinction issues on DLP's with the nvidia glasses so I doubt it's as simple as that. Brightness can be traded off against stereo extinction so that's clearly a possibility that doesn't infer bad hardware on either maker's part. And I'm far from an nVidia apologist on this issue. But there's probably something else going on here.

#24
Posted 02/18/2010 07:36 PM   
As far as I know LCDs are very bright thanks to the back lighting. Certainly a heck of a lot brighter than CRTs, Plasmas and especially projectors. I think the biggest reason for ghosting with the Nvidia glasses on LCD displays is that they simply don't block a sufficient amount of light. I have very faint ghosting on the top and bottom of the screen, most likely thanks to the scanline refresh method of the display (same problem everyone else has with the Syncmaster), but it's really not that bad. Extremely bright spots on the other hand simply shine through the glasses regardless of screen placement, and that is far more annoying as far as I'm concerned. That's also something you can't really fault the display for. That's clearly an issue with the glasses.
DLPs on the other hand refresh the whole image at once and that leads to a considerable advantage: the glasses can stay open for a much longer time period without causing synching issues. As a direct result the image isn't darkened nearly as much despite the display's lower level of brightness. And that lower level of brightness also means the glasses don't have to block nearly as much light.
As far as I know LCDs are very bright thanks to the back lighting. Certainly a heck of a lot brighter than CRTs, Plasmas and especially projectors. I think the biggest reason for ghosting with the Nvidia glasses on LCD displays is that they simply don't block a sufficient amount of light. I have very faint ghosting on the top and bottom of the screen, most likely thanks to the scanline refresh method of the display (same problem everyone else has with the Syncmaster), but it's really not that bad. Extremely bright spots on the other hand simply shine through the glasses regardless of screen placement, and that is far more annoying as far as I'm concerned. That's also something you can't really fault the display for. That's clearly an issue with the glasses.

DLPs on the other hand refresh the whole image at once and that leads to a considerable advantage: the glasses can stay open for a much longer time period without causing synching issues. As a direct result the image isn't darkened nearly as much despite the display's lower level of brightness. And that lower level of brightness also means the glasses don't have to block nearly as much light.

#25
Posted 02/19/2010 01:17 AM   
Yeh the Xpand X101 glasses are pretty expensive, the X102 however are $150 bucks DLP LINK.
I think someone mentioned there will be a new version of the x101's so probably new design with IR emitter and hopefully far cheaper.

Please don't ever think I'm having a go at anyone on here when it comes to ghosting, it just really bites that it's an issue at all.
There really isn't alot of user forums anywhere where we have user comparing different screens and glasses as yet.
DLP TV user's need to understand it's only available in the US if it were here in Australia I'd be gaming near ghost free since last year :)

Well not long now until we see the new wave stuff anyhow.
Yeh the Xpand X101 glasses are pretty expensive, the X102 however are $150 bucks DLP LINK.

I think someone mentioned there will be a new version of the x101's so probably new design with IR emitter and hopefully far cheaper.



Please don't ever think I'm having a go at anyone on here when it comes to ghosting, it just really bites that it's an issue at all.

There really isn't alot of user forums anywhere where we have user comparing different screens and glasses as yet.

DLP TV user's need to understand it's only available in the US if it were here in Australia I'd be gaming near ghost free since last year :)



Well not long now until we see the new wave stuff anyhow.

#26
Posted 02/19/2010 06:58 AM   
i have to stand corrected about the xpand glasses- they do have a DLP link version that costs $150 or so and require the Iz3d drivers- i was mistaken and looking at a different version. Anyone actually have this set up- that cares to share there experience?
i have to stand corrected about the xpand glasses- they do have a DLP link version that costs $150 or so and require the Iz3d drivers- i was mistaken and looking at a different version. Anyone actually have this set up- that cares to share there experience?

System:

Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz

Asus Rampage Extreme II

2 Ge-force 480 in SLI

GTX 295 PhysX Card

12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram

Intel SSD in RAID 0

BR RW

1000w Sony surround sound

NVIDIA 3D Vision



3d displays tested:



Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)

Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)

Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)

23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)

Samsung 65D8000

#27
Posted 02/19/2010 09:27 AM   
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001485' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:32 AM']I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.

The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.[/quote]


i have the PS50B450 Plasma from Samsung and i have the green ghosting to. I can come against it by set the brightness up. So the ghosting can be elimintaed completely. But then the game is very bright also through the glasses. I hope every day that Nvidia brings up a solutuion for this but i don`t know if they allready know the problem.

I`m very interested if anybody with other glasses have less ghosting on the plasmas.

And i have to say i`m a bit disappointed about Nvidia with their vesa Cable strategy. I have to build my own cable... And ( i know it before but there were hopes anyway) that i can use the glasses with other hardware then the pc only. For example with the PS3 by an update...

I really think about it to sell the glasses and look for other glasses that work for the PS3 too :( It seems to me that Nvidia is not particularly interested in the 3D Vision customers :(

sorry if anything is written in the wrong way i`m in the beginning of learning english :)
[quote name='pahncrd' post='1001485' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:32 AM']I'm not sure, but from all reports (including my own) the plasmas have a pretty bad green ghosting.



The refresh is amazing, so I think it is some other problem. Plasmas absolutely blow every LCD I have seen out of the water for 2d content though.





i have the PS50B450 Plasma from Samsung and i have the green ghosting to. I can come against it by set the brightness up. So the ghosting can be elimintaed completely. But then the game is very bright also through the glasses. I hope every day that Nvidia brings up a solutuion for this but i don`t know if they allready know the problem.



I`m very interested if anybody with other glasses have less ghosting on the plasmas.



And i have to say i`m a bit disappointed about Nvidia with their vesa Cable strategy. I have to build my own cable... And ( i know it before but there were hopes anyway) that i can use the glasses with other hardware then the pc only. For example with the PS3 by an update...



I really think about it to sell the glasses and look for other glasses that work for the PS3 too :( It seems to me that Nvidia is not particularly interested in the 3D Vision customers :(



sorry if anything is written in the wrong way i`m in the beginning of learning english :)

#28
Posted 02/23/2010 04:37 PM   
[quote name='RoninEF' post='1006712' date='Feb 23 2010, 05:37 PM']i have the PS50B450 Plasma from Samsung and i have the green ghosting to. I can come against it by set the brightness up. So the ghosting can be elimintaed completely. But then the game is very bright also through the glasses. I hope every day that Nvidia brings up a solutuion for this but i don`t know if they allready know the problem.

I`m very interested if anybody with other glasses have less ghosting on the plasmas.

And i have to say i`m a bit disappointed about Nvidia with their vesa Cable strategy. I have to build my own cable... And ( i know it before but there were hopes anyway) that i can use the glasses with other hardware then the pc only. For example with the PS3 by an update...

I really think about it to sell the glasses and look for other glasses that work for the PS3 too :( It seems to me that Nvidia is not particularly interested in the 3D Vision customers :(

sorry if anything is written in the wrong way i`m in the beginning of learning english :)[/quote]

Nobody who has maybe an advice what i can do to get better results without rising the brightness? :unsure:
[quote name='RoninEF' post='1006712' date='Feb 23 2010, 05:37 PM']i have the PS50B450 Plasma from Samsung and i have the green ghosting to. I can come against it by set the brightness up. So the ghosting can be elimintaed completely. But then the game is very bright also through the glasses. I hope every day that Nvidia brings up a solutuion for this but i don`t know if they allready know the problem.



I`m very interested if anybody with other glasses have less ghosting on the plasmas.



And i have to say i`m a bit disappointed about Nvidia with their vesa Cable strategy. I have to build my own cable... And ( i know it before but there were hopes anyway) that i can use the glasses with other hardware then the pc only. For example with the PS3 by an update...



I really think about it to sell the glasses and look for other glasses that work for the PS3 too :( It seems to me that Nvidia is not particularly interested in the 3D Vision customers :(



sorry if anything is written in the wrong way i`m in the beginning of learning english :)



Nobody who has maybe an advice what i can do to get better results without rising the brightness? :unsure:

#29
Posted 02/25/2010 07:53 AM   
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