8700k performance on 3D Vision
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I remember that there were some discussion the 8700K and 3D vision performance but can't find it anywhere. Something about CPU bottleneck too. So what's the conclusion? Is 8700K worth the investment or should I wait for 9700K?
I remember that there were some discussion the 8700K and 3D vision performance but can't find it anywhere. Something about CPU bottleneck too. So what's the conclusion? Is 8700K worth the investment or should I wait for 9700K?

8700K 5.0Ghz OC (Silicon Lottery Edition)
Noctua NH-15 cooler
Asus Maximus X Hero
16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM DDR4 3000
1TB Samsung PM961 OEM M.2 NVMe
MSI Gaming X Trio 1080Ti SLI
Corsair 1000RMi PSU
Cougar Conquer Case
Triple Screens Acer Predator 3D Vision XB272
3D Vision 2 Glasses
Win 10 Pro x64

#1
Posted 06/29/2018 04:36 PM   
I am curious about this too, I am currently CPU bottlenecked in a couple of very CPU demanding games and debating upgrading immediately or waiting for the 8C/16T CPUs. Also I always wondered, is the CPU hit twice as hard to display 3D or is only the GPU hit twice as hard to render the 2 images needed for 3d? I suppose any graphics tied to CPU could be double (object distance, shadow distance, etc)...or is everything just going to be double the grunt as a general rule?
I am curious about this too, I am currently CPU bottlenecked in a couple of very CPU demanding games and debating upgrading immediately or waiting for the 8C/16T CPUs.

Also I always wondered, is the CPU hit twice as hard to display 3D or is only the GPU hit twice as hard to render the 2 images needed for 3d? I suppose any graphics tied to CPU could be double (object distance, shadow distance, etc)...or is everything just going to be double the grunt as a general rule?

#2
Posted 06/29/2018 06:11 PM   
My 2.0ghz OC 1080ti/4.8 OC 8700k bullied the 3D Vision bottleneck some. I was running 35 FPS average in 1440P 3D Vision GTAV to now 60 FPS. Which was the most demanding as far as 3D performance. All other 3D titles I simply no longer monitor FPS because they play at high enough to not notice any issues. And it gave me a ton of headroom in demanding VR title such as Skyrim VR and Project Cars 2. To the point I don't even have to pay attention to FPS. So I can certainly say overall my new 1080ti/8700K combo gave me a whopping performance boost in VR/3D Vision gaming across the board over my old setup. Whether its now overclocked vs older stock clocked hardware or mainly 1080ti over 1080 I don't know. Im also running both GPU/CPU in a 360mm watercool setup if that helps. My old specs are in the sig for comparison. Either way the new hardware gave me really nice performance headroom to push graphical options further up on such demanding titles and now no longer even monitor FPS for any VR/3D Vision title because of such smooth gameplay and playable FPS.
My 2.0ghz OC 1080ti/4.8 OC 8700k bullied the 3D Vision bottleneck some.
I was running 35 FPS average in 1440P 3D Vision GTAV to now 60 FPS.
Which was the most demanding as far as 3D performance.
All other 3D titles I simply no longer monitor FPS because they play at high enough to not notice any issues.
And it gave me a ton of headroom in demanding VR title such as Skyrim VR and Project Cars 2.
To the point I don't even have to pay attention to FPS.

So I can certainly say overall my new 1080ti/8700K combo gave me a whopping performance boost in VR/3D Vision gaming across the board over my old setup.
Whether its now overclocked vs older stock clocked hardware or mainly 1080ti over 1080 I don't know.

Im also running both GPU/CPU in a 360mm watercool setup if that helps.
My old specs are in the sig for comparison.
Either way the new hardware gave me really nice performance headroom to push graphical options further up on such demanding titles and now no longer even monitor FPS for any VR/3D Vision title because of such smooth gameplay and playable FPS.

Gaming Rig 1

i7 5820K 3.3ghz (Stock Clock)
GTX 1080 Founders Edition (Stock Clock)
16GB DDR4 2400 RAM
512 SAMSUNG 840 PRO

Gaming Rig 2
My new build

Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2

#3
Posted 06/29/2018 06:44 PM   
8700K here also with 1080 Ti but it's hard to give numbers as I wasn't monitoring FPS precisely... From 660 Ti to 1080 Ti was the biggest jump in FPS I would say, I wasn't able to play the latest Metro title until I got the 1080 Ti. Fact is upgrading to 8700K also means a new motherboard and DDR4 memory but I have no regrets, I fitted all this in the very small and cute NCASE M1 and it's near silent. The topics you were looking for: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/832496/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-core-bottleneck/ https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/966422/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-bottelneck-gathering-information-thread-/
8700K here also with 1080 Ti but it's hard to give numbers as I wasn't monitoring FPS precisely... From 660 Ti to 1080 Ti was the biggest jump in FPS I would say, I wasn't able to play the latest Metro title until I got the 1080 Ti.

Fact is upgrading to 8700K also means a new motherboard and DDR4 memory but I have no regrets, I fitted all this in the very small and cute NCASE M1 and it's near silent.

The topics you were looking for:


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/832496/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-core-bottleneck/

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/966422/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-bottelneck-gathering-information-thread-/

3D Vision must live! NVIDIA, don't let us down!

#4
Posted 06/29/2018 08:12 PM   
3D vision: IPC x Clock speed are king more so than core count. If you can have both, then that's the best case scenario. If I was in the market, I would wait for the new 8C/16T CPUs based on the Ring bus as opposed to mesh type architectures. IF their IPC is as good as 7700K/8700K AND if they can clock as high as 8700K/7700K then that's the way to go. [b]IPC/Clock:[/b] The extra boost then comes from overclocking all cores + 3000MHz and above memory. The interesting thing about the 3DV CPU bug is that IPC x Clock increase of 10% might give a 3DV performance gain of 20%. Crazy. This is why I prattle on about delidding and good AIO/custom water cooling - it matters to 3DV more so than 2D gaming. [b]Personal testing of 3DV CPU bottlenecked games:[/b] Going from: 6C/12T Xeon X5660 / i7 980X Extreme Edition @ 4.4GHz all cores with DDR3 1600MHz memory to: 4C/8T 7700K @ >5GHz all cores with DDR4 3600MHz memory IPC x Clock increase is around 40% 3DV Gaming performance increase is up to and beyond 100% (i.e. doubled FPS in some scenarios). [b]Core count:[/b] 4C/8T 7700K going to 6C/12T 8700K does show 3DV scaling in some games, IF the game is optimised to use a high number of cores. A wise prediction would be that future games will use more cores, especially as now a core war between AMD and Intel is starting to heat up...
3D vision: IPC x Clock speed are king more so than core count. If you can have both, then that's the best case scenario.

If I was in the market, I would wait for the new 8C/16T CPUs based on the Ring bus as opposed to mesh type architectures. IF their IPC is as good as 7700K/8700K AND if they can clock as high as 8700K/7700K then that's the way to go.

IPC/Clock:
The extra boost then comes from overclocking all cores + 3000MHz and above memory. The interesting thing about the 3DV CPU bug is that IPC x Clock increase of 10% might give a 3DV performance gain of 20%. Crazy. This is why I prattle on about delidding and good AIO/custom water cooling - it matters to 3DV more so than 2D gaming.

Personal testing of 3DV CPU bottlenecked games:
Going from: 6C/12T Xeon X5660 / i7 980X Extreme Edition @ 4.4GHz all cores with DDR3 1600MHz memory
to:
4C/8T 7700K @ >5GHz all cores with DDR4 3600MHz memory

IPC x Clock increase is around 40%
3DV Gaming performance increase is up to and beyond 100% (i.e. doubled FPS in some scenarios).

Core count:
4C/8T 7700K going to 6C/12T 8700K does show 3DV scaling in some games, IF the game is optimised to use a high number of cores. A wise prediction would be that future games will use more cores, especially as now a core war between AMD and Intel is starting to heat up...

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#5
Posted 06/30/2018 02:38 PM   
wait what? how does the 4C/16T 7700K is superior than the 6C/12T 8700K?
wait what? how does the 4C/16T 7700K is superior than the 6C/12T 8700K?

8700K 5.0Ghz OC (Silicon Lottery Edition)
Noctua NH-15 cooler
Asus Maximus X Hero
16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM DDR4 3000
1TB Samsung PM961 OEM M.2 NVMe
MSI Gaming X Trio 1080Ti SLI
Corsair 1000RMi PSU
Cougar Conquer Case
Triple Screens Acer Predator 3D Vision XB272
3D Vision 2 Glasses
Win 10 Pro x64

#6
Posted 06/30/2018 09:45 PM   
I7-7700K 4C/8T not 4C/16T with 8700K you get two extra cores and 4 threads I7-7700K 4C/8T I7-8700K 6C/12T
I7-7700K 4C/8T not 4C/16T

with 8700K you get two extra cores and 4 threads

I7-7700K 4C/8T

I7-8700K 6C/12T

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

#7
Posted 06/30/2018 10:03 PM   
I think he meant > as in moving to. some very interesting numbers there.
I think he meant > as in moving to.

some very interesting numbers there.

#8
Posted 06/30/2018 10:12 PM   
1. @zig11727, apologies - Typo, fixed; correct numbers also earlier in same post ;-) 2. @acYm_in_3D, you are correct mate, " > as in moving to". I have changed it to prevent confusion. Reading through the second link kindly provided by Rhialto gives all the details in depth. 3. @J-Enermax, that 970 is your primary bottleneck mate. I ensured 0 GPU bottlenecks in my tests with dual GTX1080s, keeping a close eye on GPU usage. If I were you, I would wait for nVidia's next gen GPUs and purchase the *70/*80 equivalent then at least, if not a 1080Ti or even dual cards now - prices in July are rumoured to be decreased by 20%.
1. @zig11727, apologies - Typo, fixed; correct numbers also earlier in same post ;-)

2. @acYm_in_3D, you are correct mate, " > as in moving to". I have changed it to prevent confusion.

Reading through the second link kindly provided by Rhialto gives all the details in depth.

3. @J-Enermax, that 970 is your primary bottleneck mate. I ensured 0 GPU bottlenecks in my tests with dual GTX1080s, keeping a close eye on GPU usage. If I were you, I would wait for nVidia's next gen GPUs and purchase the *70/*80 equivalent then at least, if not a 1080Ti or even dual cards now - prices in July are rumoured to be decreased by 20%.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#9
Posted 06/30/2018 10:12 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]If I was in the market, I would wait for the new 8C/16T CPUs based on the Ring bus as opposed to mesh type architectures. IF their IPC is as good as 7700K/8700K AND if they can clock as high as 8700K/7700K then that's the way to go. [/quote] Man, I hope you are right, but my expectation is that we will get an IPC bump and simultaneously a drop in clock speed to maybe 3.5GHz as they work out problems with new architecture. In any case, for people who need/want to run Win7 at all, the i7-8700k is the last gen that will work, because literally the chips didn't change at all, it's just corporate machinations that make it harder. So last gen chipset drivers work fine on i7-8700K and allow you to run Win7. See Metaloholic's posts, where he is successfully running Win7 on 8700K. I do not expect more cores to matter until it gets picked up by the game consoles. Right now they are running 8 cores in Xbone, and that's the only thing that matters. Game devs are not going to put in extra work for more cores until they have to. Consoles drive [i]all[/i] gaming, including pc gaming. Also worth noting that BTC finally cracked, and the dam has burst on getting video cards for list prices again. I'm even starting to see some below-list price cards, as we get closer to probably 1180 in the fall. My prediction here is that there will be a flood of cheap cards like 1080ti that will be easily worth the money for 3D. As miners move to 1170/1180 or throw in the towel, there should be a hell of a lot of used stock around.
RAGEdemon said:If I was in the market, I would wait for the new 8C/16T CPUs based on the Ring bus as opposed to mesh type architectures. IF their IPC is as good as 7700K/8700K AND if they can clock as high as 8700K/7700K then that's the way to go.

Man, I hope you are right, but my expectation is that we will get an IPC bump and simultaneously a drop in clock speed to maybe 3.5GHz as they work out problems with new architecture.

In any case, for people who need/want to run Win7 at all, the i7-8700k is the last gen that will work, because literally the chips didn't change at all, it's just corporate machinations that make it harder. So last gen chipset drivers work fine on i7-8700K and allow you to run Win7. See Metaloholic's posts, where he is successfully running Win7 on 8700K.

I do not expect more cores to matter until it gets picked up by the game consoles. Right now they are running 8 cores in Xbone, and that's the only thing that matters. Game devs are not going to put in extra work for more cores until they have to. Consoles drive all gaming, including pc gaming.


Also worth noting that BTC finally cracked, and the dam has burst on getting video cards for list prices again. I'm even starting to see some below-list price cards, as we get closer to probably 1180 in the fall.

My prediction here is that there will be a flood of cheap cards like 1080ti that will be easily worth the money for 3D. As miners move to 1170/1180 or throw in the towel, there should be a hell of a lot of used stock around.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#10
Posted 07/01/2018 12:08 AM   
Agreed and agreed mate. Rumour has it that Sony is actually subsidising significant R&D of new AMD chips for the PlayStation 5 based on high core count Ryzen tech. Not only would that be a beast, but it would mean that finally, next-next gen games will start using a significantly increased number of threads compared to today. That would be a sight to behold, but I would hate to be in a position a couple of years from now after purchasing a 6C CPU now where 16C is standard; - even 5 year old consoles - xbox one and PS4 both have 8 core chips. Re: GPU prices - there are rumours that July will see a 20% drop in price and that a 1180 will be 40%+ performance of a 1080. After that, indeed I'd love to see the going price of the bitcoin miner's backbone card, the 1070. Interesting times!
Agreed and agreed mate. Rumour has it that Sony is actually subsidising significant R&D of new AMD chips for the PlayStation 5 based on high core count Ryzen tech.

Not only would that be a beast, but it would mean that finally, next-next gen games will start using a significantly increased number of threads compared to today.

That would be a sight to behold, but I would hate to be in a position a couple of years from now after purchasing a 6C CPU now where 16C is standard; - even 5 year old consoles - xbox one and PS4 both have 8 core chips.

Re: GPU prices - there are rumours that July will see a 20% drop in price and that a 1180 will be 40%+ performance of a 1080. After that, indeed I'd love to see the going price of the bitcoin miner's backbone card, the 1070. Interesting times!

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#11
Posted 07/01/2018 12:42 AM   
@RAGEdemon: thanks for your advice but I am afraid that it came too late. After waiting for almost a years since last June 2017, I am finally cracked. I wanted to get to 3D gaming and Nvidia Surround so bad and was waiting for a long time to save up $. Since it's summer and business has slown down a bit (got more time for gaming) before the Fall pick up, I just bought 2x MSI 1080Ti Trio (at $700 each, pre-owned), Asus Maximus X Hero Wifi AC, 8700K + rockit88 delid kit (I plan to do delid myself but maybe I should have just pay the premium price for the Silicon Lottery), 16GB Corsair DDR4 RAM. I already have the 2016 OLED LG 65" TV and triple monitors for almost a year now but have no use for them since my current rig (see sig) sucks ball. I might recycle my old case and sell off the rest. Thanks a bunch for your and everyone's advice here
@RAGEdemon: thanks for your advice but I am afraid that it came too late. After waiting for almost a years since last June 2017, I am finally cracked. I wanted to get to 3D gaming and Nvidia Surround so bad and was waiting for a long time to save up $.

Since it's summer and business has slown down a bit (got more time for gaming) before the Fall pick up, I just bought 2x MSI 1080Ti Trio (at $700 each, pre-owned), Asus Maximus X Hero Wifi AC, 8700K + rockit88 delid kit (I plan to do delid myself but maybe I should have just pay the premium price for the Silicon Lottery), 16GB Corsair DDR4 RAM.

I already have the 2016 OLED LG 65" TV and triple monitors for almost a year now but have no use for them since my current rig (see sig) sucks ball.

I might recycle my old case and sell off the rest.

Thanks a bunch for your and everyone's advice here

8700K 5.0Ghz OC (Silicon Lottery Edition)
Noctua NH-15 cooler
Asus Maximus X Hero
16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM DDR4 3000
1TB Samsung PM961 OEM M.2 NVMe
MSI Gaming X Trio 1080Ti SLI
Corsair 1000RMi PSU
Cougar Conquer Case
Triple Screens Acer Predator 3D Vision XB272
3D Vision 2 Glasses
Win 10 Pro x64

#12
Posted 07/01/2018 01:11 AM   
Man lots of good info in here, I guess I’m going to wait till the fall - hopefully they aren’t too hard to grab during launch. Going to be a long wait though, and I will have to shelve kingdom come, fallout 4, and put up with some frame rate drops in project cars 2 until then. OP I think you’ll be just fine with that beastly set up, and I understand caving… I almost pulled the trigger a couple days ago myself..
Man lots of good info in here, I guess I’m going to wait till the fall - hopefully they aren’t too hard to grab during launch. Going to be a long wait though, and I will have to shelve kingdom come, fallout 4, and put up with some frame rate drops in project cars 2 until then.

OP I think you’ll be just fine with that beastly set up, and I understand caving… I almost pulled the trigger a couple days ago myself..

#13
Posted 07/01/2018 01:43 AM   
J-Enermax, you have nothing to be disappointed in mate, that is a superb system you are building. Don't worry about the delid; it's a piece of cake. I just used razors but the delid kit is much better. I hope you will use liquid metal on it - I would recommend Kryonaut. I also recommend liquid metal on the 1080Tis - 10 degree difference in temps - helps a great deal in SLi and old cases. Enjoy the summer, and congrats on a superb system! :)
J-Enermax, you have nothing to be disappointed in mate, that is a superb system you are building.

Don't worry about the delid; it's a piece of cake. I just used razors but the delid kit is much better.

I hope you will use liquid metal on it - I would recommend Kryonaut.

I also recommend liquid metal on the 1080Tis - 10 degree difference in temps - helps a great deal in SLi and old cases.

Enjoy the summer, and congrats on a superb system! :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#14
Posted 07/01/2018 01:57 AM   
@J-Enermax: In my opinion, that was a terrific choice. That system will still be breathing fire for at least two years, and after that we get into crystal ball territory. With computers, there is literally no way to know how things will turn out. Buying now is always better than waiting, there will always be something on the horizon that is 'game changing'. Nothing will stop you from upgrading at that point, if it's worth it. There is no such thing as future proofing, buy for today, and in the future buy for then. My best example- emphasis on core count literally [i]9 years ago[/i], which was worth nothing until pretty much last year. For example: https://www.giantbomb.com/pc/3045-94/forums/whats-this-crap-about-no-games-using-4-cores-255514/ 2009. If you had 'future proofed' then, you wasted money on something you never used.
@J-Enermax: In my opinion, that was a terrific choice. That system will still be breathing fire for at least two years, and after that we get into crystal ball territory. With computers, there is literally no way to know how things will turn out.

Buying now is always better than waiting, there will always be something on the horizon that is 'game changing'. Nothing will stop you from upgrading at that point, if it's worth it. There is no such thing as future proofing, buy for today, and in the future buy for then. My best example- emphasis on core count literally 9 years ago, which was worth nothing until pretty much last year.

For example: https://www.giantbomb.com/pc/3045-94/forums/whats-this-crap-about-no-games-using-4-cores-255514/


2009. If you had 'future proofed' then, you wasted money on something you never used.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#15
Posted 07/01/2018 11:17 AM   
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