Philips 46PFL8605H - Will it do nVidia 3D Vision ? Why is it so hard to get a straight answer?
My google fu is failing me.
Been all over this for a few days now and I can't find a definitive answer.

[b]Will this 120Hz time-sequential 3D LED backlit LCD, which comes with it's own shutter glasses, be able to work with nvidia's 3d starter kit? (either with nvidia's glasses or it's own)[/b]

It's very disappointing that nvidia only lists a few mitsubishi DLPs as compatible, while I'm sure that many other TVs that are listed here [http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html] can be recognized as "Generic" and handle the 120hz signal.

My other specs are 3D capable (GF260, etc), but I would hate to buy the Philips only to find out that it doesn't work.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tush
My google fu is failing me.

Been all over this for a few days now and I can't find a definitive answer.



Will this 120Hz time-sequential 3D LED backlit LCD, which comes with it's own shutter glasses, be able to work with nvidia's 3d starter kit? (either with nvidia's glasses or it's own)



It's very disappointing that nvidia only lists a few mitsubishi DLPs as compatible, while I'm sure that many other TVs that are listed here [http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html] can be recognized as "Generic" and handle the 120hz signal.



My other specs are 3D capable (GF260, etc), but I would hate to buy the Philips only to find out that it doesn't work.



Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tush

#1
Posted 08/29/2010 12:32 PM   
My google fu is failing me.
Been all over this for a few days now and I can't find a definitive answer.

[b]Will this 120Hz time-sequential 3D LED backlit LCD, which comes with it's own shutter glasses, be able to work with nvidia's 3d starter kit? (either with nvidia's glasses or it's own)[/b]

It's very disappointing that nvidia only lists a few mitsubishi DLPs as compatible, while I'm sure that many other TVs that are listed here [http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html] can be recognized as "Generic" and handle the 120hz signal.

My other specs are 3D capable (GF260, etc), but I would hate to buy the Philips only to find out that it doesn't work.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tush
My google fu is failing me.

Been all over this for a few days now and I can't find a definitive answer.



Will this 120Hz time-sequential 3D LED backlit LCD, which comes with it's own shutter glasses, be able to work with nvidia's 3d starter kit? (either with nvidia's glasses or it's own)



It's very disappointing that nvidia only lists a few mitsubishi DLPs as compatible, while I'm sure that many other TVs that are listed here [http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html] can be recognized as "Generic" and handle the 120hz signal.



My other specs are 3D capable (GF260, etc), but I would hate to buy the Philips only to find out that it doesn't work.



Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tush

#2
Posted 08/29/2010 12:32 PM   
I highly doubt that it supports a 120Hz input and achieves its 200Hz rating similar to how other displays do it so my answer would be no for be 3D Vision capable. I am sure the websites that cater to 3D gaming, like 3D Vision Blog, would announce anything new coming that is 3D Vision capable.
I highly doubt that it supports a 120Hz input and achieves its 200Hz rating similar to how other displays do it so my answer would be no for be 3D Vision capable. I am sure the websites that cater to 3D gaming, like 3D Vision Blog, would announce anything new coming that is 3D Vision capable.

#3
Posted 08/29/2010 12:54 PM   
I highly doubt that it supports a 120Hz input and achieves its 200Hz rating similar to how other displays do it so my answer would be no for be 3D Vision capable. I am sure the websites that cater to 3D gaming, like 3D Vision Blog, would announce anything new coming that is 3D Vision capable.
I highly doubt that it supports a 120Hz input and achieves its 200Hz rating similar to how other displays do it so my answer would be no for be 3D Vision capable. I am sure the websites that cater to 3D gaming, like 3D Vision Blog, would announce anything new coming that is 3D Vision capable.

#4
Posted 08/29/2010 12:54 PM   
The salesman said it supports 120hz [b]input[/b].
I asked again in disbelief "are you sure it can handle a 120hz signal? not just upscale a 60hz input to 120hz" and he said yes, but.. he's a salesman.
I really would like a definitive answer before spending $3000.

If anyone from nvidia knows, or knows how to test for 3D vision compatibility, that would be great.
I can take a laptop to the showroom and hook it up to the TV, but I have no idea how to test for compatibility.
Is that even posisble? Can't I fire up powerstrip and look for something specific?

Thanks,
Tush
The salesman said it supports 120hz input.

I asked again in disbelief "are you sure it can handle a 120hz signal? not just upscale a 60hz input to 120hz" and he said yes, but.. he's a salesman.

I really would like a definitive answer before spending $3000.



If anyone from nvidia knows, or knows how to test for 3D vision compatibility, that would be great.

I can take a laptop to the showroom and hook it up to the TV, but I have no idea how to test for compatibility.

Is that even posisble? Can't I fire up powerstrip and look for something specific?



Thanks,

Tush

#5
Posted 08/29/2010 10:10 PM   
The salesman said it supports 120hz [b]input[/b].
I asked again in disbelief "are you sure it can handle a 120hz signal? not just upscale a 60hz input to 120hz" and he said yes, but.. he's a salesman.
I really would like a definitive answer before spending $3000.

If anyone from nvidia knows, or knows how to test for 3D vision compatibility, that would be great.
I can take a laptop to the showroom and hook it up to the TV, but I have no idea how to test for compatibility.
Is that even posisble? Can't I fire up powerstrip and look for something specific?

Thanks,
Tush
The salesman said it supports 120hz input.

I asked again in disbelief "are you sure it can handle a 120hz signal? not just upscale a 60hz input to 120hz" and he said yes, but.. he's a salesman.

I really would like a definitive answer before spending $3000.



If anyone from nvidia knows, or knows how to test for 3D vision compatibility, that would be great.

I can take a laptop to the showroom and hook it up to the TV, but I have no idea how to test for compatibility.

Is that even posisble? Can't I fire up powerstrip and look for something specific?



Thanks,

Tush

#6
Posted 08/29/2010 10:10 PM   
The salesmen is wrong and that list, while technically correct is misleading. Those HDTVs support 120Hz time-sequential OUTPUT, but cannot accept 120Hz time-sequential or frame-sequential input. They are limited to 60Hz input because its a limitation of current HDMI 1.3 and 1.4(a) specifications. HDMI claims it can handle up to 10Gbps which would be sufficient for 120Hz 1080p, but for whatever reason they are not whether its due to legacy HDTV, receiver, or device signaling limitations that they're trying to maintain backward compatibility with. I imagine they will eventually get around to expanding the spec with HDMI 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 to force you to buy all new HD equipment eventually, but as of now you're limited to 60Hz over HDMI.

With any of those 3D HDTVs, stereo images are frame-packed in various formats (side-by-side, top-bottom, interlaced) in a single double resolution frame and sent to the HDTV at 60Hz max where the TV's motion processor/scaler/DSP splits the frame up accordingly and then outputs those frames alternately at 120Hz or 60Hz per eye. Regardless, you will need to use the HDTV's native hardware because the output will be sync'd to the HDTV's own emitter and 3D Glasses; Nvidia's solution has no control or understanding of what happens after it sends its HDMI 1.4 frame-packed frame to the HDTV as its going to be different for every HDTV depending on how they output (right eye first, top bottom etc.) If they used the VESA sync cable like the DLPs do, there might be a chance to use Nvidia's hardware but afaik none of the proprietary 3D displays do.

Your definitive answer will come when Nvidia releases 3DTV Play sometime next month (supposedly) which will support most if not all of the "3D Ready" HDTVs on the market, but keep in mind, you will still be limited to 720p @ 60Hz, 1080i @ 60Hz, 1080p @ 24Hz as maximum resolutions per eye in 3D. All of this goes back to HDMI 1.4(a) limitations that may expand in the future, but right now they are set in stone as hard limits on these solutions.
The salesmen is wrong and that list, while technically correct is misleading. Those HDTVs support 120Hz time-sequential OUTPUT, but cannot accept 120Hz time-sequential or frame-sequential input. They are limited to 60Hz input because its a limitation of current HDMI 1.3 and 1.4(a) specifications. HDMI claims it can handle up to 10Gbps which would be sufficient for 120Hz 1080p, but for whatever reason they are not whether its due to legacy HDTV, receiver, or device signaling limitations that they're trying to maintain backward compatibility with. I imagine they will eventually get around to expanding the spec with HDMI 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 to force you to buy all new HD equipment eventually, but as of now you're limited to 60Hz over HDMI.



With any of those 3D HDTVs, stereo images are frame-packed in various formats (side-by-side, top-bottom, interlaced) in a single double resolution frame and sent to the HDTV at 60Hz max where the TV's motion processor/scaler/DSP splits the frame up accordingly and then outputs those frames alternately at 120Hz or 60Hz per eye. Regardless, you will need to use the HDTV's native hardware because the output will be sync'd to the HDTV's own emitter and 3D Glasses; Nvidia's solution has no control or understanding of what happens after it sends its HDMI 1.4 frame-packed frame to the HDTV as its going to be different for every HDTV depending on how they output (right eye first, top bottom etc.) If they used the VESA sync cable like the DLPs do, there might be a chance to use Nvidia's hardware but afaik none of the proprietary 3D displays do.



Your definitive answer will come when Nvidia releases 3DTV Play sometime next month (supposedly) which will support most if not all of the "3D Ready" HDTVs on the market, but keep in mind, you will still be limited to 720p @ 60Hz, 1080i @ 60Hz, 1080p @ 24Hz as maximum resolutions per eye in 3D. All of this goes back to HDMI 1.4(a) limitations that may expand in the future, but right now they are set in stone as hard limits on these solutions.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#7
Posted 08/29/2010 11:05 PM   
The salesmen is wrong and that list, while technically correct is misleading. Those HDTVs support 120Hz time-sequential OUTPUT, but cannot accept 120Hz time-sequential or frame-sequential input. They are limited to 60Hz input because its a limitation of current HDMI 1.3 and 1.4(a) specifications. HDMI claims it can handle up to 10Gbps which would be sufficient for 120Hz 1080p, but for whatever reason they are not whether its due to legacy HDTV, receiver, or device signaling limitations that they're trying to maintain backward compatibility with. I imagine they will eventually get around to expanding the spec with HDMI 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 to force you to buy all new HD equipment eventually, but as of now you're limited to 60Hz over HDMI.

With any of those 3D HDTVs, stereo images are frame-packed in various formats (side-by-side, top-bottom, interlaced) in a single double resolution frame and sent to the HDTV at 60Hz max where the TV's motion processor/scaler/DSP splits the frame up accordingly and then outputs those frames alternately at 120Hz or 60Hz per eye. Regardless, you will need to use the HDTV's native hardware because the output will be sync'd to the HDTV's own emitter and 3D Glasses; Nvidia's solution has no control or understanding of what happens after it sends its HDMI 1.4 frame-packed frame to the HDTV as its going to be different for every HDTV depending on how they output (right eye first, top bottom etc.) If they used the VESA sync cable like the DLPs do, there might be a chance to use Nvidia's hardware but afaik none of the proprietary 3D displays do.

Your definitive answer will come when Nvidia releases 3DTV Play sometime next month (supposedly) which will support most if not all of the "3D Ready" HDTVs on the market, but keep in mind, you will still be limited to 720p @ 60Hz, 1080i @ 60Hz, 1080p @ 24Hz as maximum resolutions per eye in 3D. All of this goes back to HDMI 1.4(a) limitations that may expand in the future, but right now they are set in stone as hard limits on these solutions.
The salesmen is wrong and that list, while technically correct is misleading. Those HDTVs support 120Hz time-sequential OUTPUT, but cannot accept 120Hz time-sequential or frame-sequential input. They are limited to 60Hz input because its a limitation of current HDMI 1.3 and 1.4(a) specifications. HDMI claims it can handle up to 10Gbps which would be sufficient for 120Hz 1080p, but for whatever reason they are not whether its due to legacy HDTV, receiver, or device signaling limitations that they're trying to maintain backward compatibility with. I imagine they will eventually get around to expanding the spec with HDMI 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 to force you to buy all new HD equipment eventually, but as of now you're limited to 60Hz over HDMI.



With any of those 3D HDTVs, stereo images are frame-packed in various formats (side-by-side, top-bottom, interlaced) in a single double resolution frame and sent to the HDTV at 60Hz max where the TV's motion processor/scaler/DSP splits the frame up accordingly and then outputs those frames alternately at 120Hz or 60Hz per eye. Regardless, you will need to use the HDTV's native hardware because the output will be sync'd to the HDTV's own emitter and 3D Glasses; Nvidia's solution has no control or understanding of what happens after it sends its HDMI 1.4 frame-packed frame to the HDTV as its going to be different for every HDTV depending on how they output (right eye first, top bottom etc.) If they used the VESA sync cable like the DLPs do, there might be a chance to use Nvidia's hardware but afaik none of the proprietary 3D displays do.



Your definitive answer will come when Nvidia releases 3DTV Play sometime next month (supposedly) which will support most if not all of the "3D Ready" HDTVs on the market, but keep in mind, you will still be limited to 720p @ 60Hz, 1080i @ 60Hz, 1080p @ 24Hz as maximum resolutions per eye in 3D. All of this goes back to HDMI 1.4(a) limitations that may expand in the future, but right now they are set in stone as hard limits on these solutions.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#8
Posted 08/29/2010 11:05 PM   
Thank you Chiz for your elaborate answer. Very clear and concise. Certainly cleared up a few things for me.

I'm not going back to playing on a PC monitor, 3D or not. If I have to settle for 24 fps @1080p or 60 fps @720, so be it. Makes sense to wait till 3DTV Play is officially released.

Perhaps I'll just t get the Panasonic VT20/VT25 that NV uses to show off the technology instead of this endless waiting. That's one TV that's 100% compaitble.
Thank you Chiz for your elaborate answer. Very clear and concise. Certainly cleared up a few things for me.



I'm not going back to playing on a PC monitor, 3D or not. If I have to settle for 24 fps @1080p or 60 fps @720, so be it. Makes sense to wait till 3DTV Play is officially released.



Perhaps I'll just t get the Panasonic VT20/VT25 that NV uses to show off the technology instead of this endless waiting. That's one TV that's 100% compaitble.

#9
Posted 08/30/2010 07:11 PM   
Thank you Chiz for your elaborate answer. Very clear and concise. Certainly cleared up a few things for me.

I'm not going back to playing on a PC monitor, 3D or not. If I have to settle for 24 fps @1080p or 60 fps @720, so be it. Makes sense to wait till 3DTV Play is officially released.

Perhaps I'll just t get the Panasonic VT20/VT25 that NV uses to show off the technology instead of this endless waiting. That's one TV that's 100% compaitble.
Thank you Chiz for your elaborate answer. Very clear and concise. Certainly cleared up a few things for me.



I'm not going back to playing on a PC monitor, 3D or not. If I have to settle for 24 fps @1080p or 60 fps @720, so be it. Makes sense to wait till 3DTV Play is officially released.



Perhaps I'll just t get the Panasonic VT20/VT25 that NV uses to show off the technology instead of this endless waiting. That's one TV that's 100% compaitble.

#10
Posted 08/30/2010 07:11 PM   
Yep nps, we really only have HDTV makers to thank for all of this confusion, beginning with their interpolated/marketing slogans for 120+Hz capability and now with the state of 3D and HDMI, most of them can't even settle on a single output methodology. The HDMI standards board is clearly holding the spec back as well imo by not supporting 120Hz or FullHD 1080p @ 60Hz per eye even though they claim the wire can handle the bandwidth. Its just an attempt to keep the money machine churning imo.

But ya if you were to buy today I imagine the Panasonic TVs Nvidia has been demo'ing 3DTV Play would be the safest bet, but realistically I think most of the major brands and models will be supported. I think all of the different formats and potential compatibility issues are the main reason why things have been held up for so long. Once you add in the potential EDID problems known to be an issue with some HDTVs, you can see why this could be a problem. I would not be surprised if Nvidia is actually writing EDID overrides and including them in their driver for some of these problematic 3D displays.
Yep nps, we really only have HDTV makers to thank for all of this confusion, beginning with their interpolated/marketing slogans for 120+Hz capability and now with the state of 3D and HDMI, most of them can't even settle on a single output methodology. The HDMI standards board is clearly holding the spec back as well imo by not supporting 120Hz or FullHD 1080p @ 60Hz per eye even though they claim the wire can handle the bandwidth. Its just an attempt to keep the money machine churning imo.



But ya if you were to buy today I imagine the Panasonic TVs Nvidia has been demo'ing 3DTV Play would be the safest bet, but realistically I think most of the major brands and models will be supported. I think all of the different formats and potential compatibility issues are the main reason why things have been held up for so long. Once you add in the potential EDID problems known to be an issue with some HDTVs, you can see why this could be a problem. I would not be surprised if Nvidia is actually writing EDID overrides and including them in their driver for some of these problematic 3D displays.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#11
Posted 08/30/2010 10:28 PM   
Yep nps, we really only have HDTV makers to thank for all of this confusion, beginning with their interpolated/marketing slogans for 120+Hz capability and now with the state of 3D and HDMI, most of them can't even settle on a single output methodology. The HDMI standards board is clearly holding the spec back as well imo by not supporting 120Hz or FullHD 1080p @ 60Hz per eye even though they claim the wire can handle the bandwidth. Its just an attempt to keep the money machine churning imo.

But ya if you were to buy today I imagine the Panasonic TVs Nvidia has been demo'ing 3DTV Play would be the safest bet, but realistically I think most of the major brands and models will be supported. I think all of the different formats and potential compatibility issues are the main reason why things have been held up for so long. Once you add in the potential EDID problems known to be an issue with some HDTVs, you can see why this could be a problem. I would not be surprised if Nvidia is actually writing EDID overrides and including them in their driver for some of these problematic 3D displays.
Yep nps, we really only have HDTV makers to thank for all of this confusion, beginning with their interpolated/marketing slogans for 120+Hz capability and now with the state of 3D and HDMI, most of them can't even settle on a single output methodology. The HDMI standards board is clearly holding the spec back as well imo by not supporting 120Hz or FullHD 1080p @ 60Hz per eye even though they claim the wire can handle the bandwidth. Its just an attempt to keep the money machine churning imo.



But ya if you were to buy today I imagine the Panasonic TVs Nvidia has been demo'ing 3DTV Play would be the safest bet, but realistically I think most of the major brands and models will be supported. I think all of the different formats and potential compatibility issues are the main reason why things have been held up for so long. Once you add in the potential EDID problems known to be an issue with some HDTVs, you can see why this could be a problem. I would not be surprised if Nvidia is actually writing EDID overrides and including them in their driver for some of these problematic 3D displays.

-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings

Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W

#12
Posted 08/30/2010 10:28 PM   
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