Coming from the other side of the spectrum using Benq's first 3D Vision monitor the goal is to run native resolution 1920x1080 at 60 hz hopefully managing to render 60 frames per second for each eye which can be quite demanding.
There are a couple lower resolutions that appear to work like 1650x1050 and 1280x720 but I don't know if there are more.
Some games are not very playable in 3D for various reasons so for instance Counter-Strike Source has to run at 120 fps vsynced instead.
To get to the point most of the time the HDMI link lacks the bandwidth to transfer native resolution high framerate 3D.
The native resolution is either optimized for film at 24hz or 60hz 2D.
As far as I understand most TV's supported by 3DTV Play supports framepacked 720@60hz or 1080@24hz.
Otherwise there is checkerboard pattern.
Checkerboard offers half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
720p offers about half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
Side-by-side obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Top-and-Bottom obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Interlaced offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
From my perspective I can see five different ways of transmitting information equivalent of half the native resolution to each eye.
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
Any of the reduced 1080p solutions oculd result in problems reading small chat text in WoW for instance.
If we are talking about scaling either side-by-side or top-and-bottom is good as the scaling is simple and only produces artifacts in horizontal or vertical direction.
Talking about driver features,
My monitor is quite dumb and would need help from nvidia to render the side-by-side version of Sonic Generations.
PS. I don't own a TV and couldn't say which of the half-native resolution @ 60hz looks best.
I just like to have a 1:1 pixel mapping unless it is really lowres content like really old games or dvd playback
(watching an actual postcard size window is not particularly fun).
Coming from the other side of the spectrum using Benq's first 3D Vision monitor the goal is to run native resolution 1920x1080 at 60 hz hopefully managing to render 60 frames per second for each eye which can be quite demanding.
There are a couple lower resolutions that appear to work like 1650x1050 and 1280x720 but I don't know if there are more.
Some games are not very playable in 3D for various reasons so for instance Counter-Strike Source has to run at 120 fps vsynced instead.
To get to the point most of the time the HDMI link lacks the bandwidth to transfer native resolution high framerate 3D.
The native resolution is either optimized for film at 24hz or 60hz 2D.
As far as I understand most TV's supported by 3DTV Play supports framepacked 720@60hz or 1080@24hz.
Otherwise there is checkerboard pattern.
Checkerboard offers half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
720p offers about half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
Side-by-side obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Top-and-Bottom obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Interlaced offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
From my perspective I can see five different ways of transmitting information equivalent of half the native resolution to each eye.
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
Any of the reduced 1080p solutions oculd result in problems reading small chat text in WoW for instance.
If we are talking about scaling either side-by-side or top-and-bottom is good as the scaling is simple and only produces artifacts in horizontal or vertical direction.
Talking about driver features,
My monitor is quite dumb and would need help from nvidia to render the side-by-side version of Sonic Generations.
PS. I don't own a TV and couldn't say which of the half-native resolution @ 60hz looks best.
I just like to have a 1:1 pixel mapping unless it is really lowres content like really old games or dvd playback
(watching an actual postcard size window is not particularly fun).
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
[quote name='Flugan' date='24 January 2012 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1327362518' post='1359707']
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
[/quote]
You are correct, however with 3dtvplay scaling is applied automatically in this mode and the image is stretched to full screen, so no 1:1 can be retained. Besides, who would play with black borders on the sides /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />. Supposedly checkerboard retains the best PQ of the above-mentioned when 60hz is the desired frequency, since the two halved images aren't stretched to full size, which is the case with Top-Bottom and SBS (so no scaling artefacts). Any resolution which isn't the native leads to PQ loss in the form of blurring and aliasing, but the loss form 720p frame-packed to 1080p native is much bigger than 1/2 1080p to native 1080p. This is visible for anyone who's tested other solutions such as the iz3d or DDD drivers. The only issue, which remains is the performance loss due to the higher resolution worth the quality gains and in my opinion it is.
[quote name='Flugan' date='24 January 2012 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1327362518' post='1359707']
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
You are correct, however with 3dtvplay scaling is applied automatically in this mode and the image is stretched to full screen, so no 1:1 can be retained. Besides, who would play with black borders on the sides /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />. Supposedly checkerboard retains the best PQ of the above-mentioned when 60hz is the desired frequency, since the two halved images aren't stretched to full size, which is the case with Top-Bottom and SBS (so no scaling artefacts). Any resolution which isn't the native leads to PQ loss in the form of blurring and aliasing, but the loss form 720p frame-packed to 1080p native is much bigger than 1/2 1080p to native 1080p. This is visible for anyone who's tested other solutions such as the iz3d or DDD drivers. The only issue, which remains is the performance loss due to the higher resolution worth the quality gains and in my opinion it is.
"No user Intervention" is a stupid nvidia excuse, as they can set a default flag that force the use of frame packed 3d stream, while "power users" that prefer SBS shall change this flag.
is this too simple for nvidia ? does nvidia think we are idiots ?
A default option for no user intervention is used EVERYWHERE in the nvidia software.
THE SAME THING HAPPENS FOR SLI setup: the default flag is "AUTOMATIC MODE" while you can choose "ALTERNATE FRAME RENDERING 1 or 2" (no one knows the difference as it is for "no user understending")
automatic mode is the default choice while, AFR is a power user custom selection....
"No user Intervention" is a stupid nvidia excuse, as they can set a default flag that force the use of frame packed 3d stream, while "power users" that prefer SBS shall change this flag.
is this too simple for nvidia ? does nvidia think we are idiots ?
A default option for no user intervention is used EVERYWHERE in the nvidia software.
THE SAME THING HAPPENS FOR SLI setup: the default flag is "AUTOMATIC MODE" while you can choose "ALTERNATE FRAME RENDERING 1 or 2" (no one knows the difference as it is for "no user understending")
automatic mode is the default choice while, AFR is a power user custom selection....
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='18 August 2011 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1313682139' post='1281035']
I am well aware of the request to add side/side support.
I have said it earlier this year, and I wills ay it again that this feature is on our roadmap, its just behind other features right now that other users have requested. [b]We will add this feature to future drivers.[/b]
[/quote]
So, any news about that in the 300.xx drivers ?
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' date='18 August 2011 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1313682139' post='1281035']
I am well aware of the request to add side/side support.
I have said it earlier this year, and I wills ay it again that this feature is on our roadmap, its just behind other features right now that other users have requested. We will add this feature to future drivers.
Come on guys, do you seriously believe that SBS will be added to 3DTV Play any time soon? Andrew said that these features would be added to 3DTV Play, that was on their roadmpa assigment, LOL. There's post he made about this comment in August 2011, and today is March 2012. Do you guys really have faith on it?
Nvidia doesn't care about this, they have other priorites. I already lost my faith on this since Andrew promissed to add Checkerboard feature to 3DTV Play in June 2010 and nothing happened since them.
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
Come on guys, do you seriously believe that SBS will be added to 3DTV Play any time soon? Andrew said that these features would be added to 3DTV Play, that was on their roadmpa assigment, LOL. There's post he made about this comment in August 2011, and today is March 2012. Do you guys really have faith on it?
Nvidia doesn't care about this, they have other priorites. I already lost my faith on this since Andrew promissed to add Checkerboard feature to 3DTV Play in June 2010 and nothing happened since them.
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
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[quote name='francomg' date='26 March 2012 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1332776823' post='1388102']
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
[/quote]
Yes we do!
He brought me SLI support for 3DVision after 10 month waiting.
And he spend ATI customers a driver licence for SBS support a year ago.
[quote name='francomg' date='26 March 2012 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1332776823' post='1388102']
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
[/quote]
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
[quote name='3DRobert' date='27 March 2012 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1332836876' post='1388447']
Robert
[/quote]
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
maybe nvidia just want to sell it's own 3d vision tool ... 3DTV as you know does not need all that stuff from nvidia just software support , not as 3d vision emitter and glasses
any way 3DTV i think is better than nvidia 3d vision tool .. simple and you can choose what type of 3d do you want
Tridef 3D is a fabulous software .. but it is problem that decrease the FPS to the half becouse it rendering the same view twice with slight different angle
we just now waiting for the game developer to support 3d playing like crysis 2 .. that will make nvidia make a new decision
maybe nvidia just want to sell it's own 3d vision tool ... 3DTV as you know does not need all that stuff from nvidia just software support , not as 3d vision emitter and glasses
any way 3DTV i think is better than nvidia 3d vision tool .. simple and you can choose what type of 3d do you want
Tridef 3D is a fabulous software .. but it is problem that decrease the FPS to the half becouse it rendering the same view twice with slight different angle
we just now waiting for the game developer to support 3d playing like crysis 2 .. that will make nvidia make a new decision
[quote name='ZePRiNCE' date='27 March 2012 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1332846842' post='1388507']
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
[/quote]
You forgot to mention that page flipping 1080p30hz is no longer available for HDMI 1.3 TVs using the latest Nvidia drivers. This used to be my favorite 3D gaming mode for my Samsung 3D plasma that supports this page flipping and checkerboard. Now I am stuck with 3DTV Play or Checkerboard (DLP mode). I was very happy with Frame sequential/Generic CRT mode, full resolution per eye, 1080p30hz which was very playable for many games like Batman AC and had an amazing 3D quality, way better then Checkerboard.
So, it feels like Nvidia is removing features not adding any... Do no expect SBS or FP 1080p30hz from Nvidia, they don't care about this, they are only worried about 3D Vision + 3D Vision Ready displays. 3DTV Play is just a spare product which doesn't require their glasses and emitter, so they don't really care about improving this. I used to believe on Andrew/Nvidia promises, but after waiting for almost 2 years for native checkerboard support for 3DTV Play, without having to use Rollermod I completely lost my faith. Also, after I found out that Nvidia had removed the Generic CRT mode from HDMI 1.3 TVs just to screw us Samsung TV/CRT monitors users, I really don't expect much from them when it comes to user requests like the ones we're making here. Nvidia have other $$$ priorities.
[quote name='ZePRiNCE' date='27 March 2012 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1332846842' post='1388507']
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
You forgot to mention that page flipping 1080p30hz is no longer available for HDMI 1.3 TVs using the latest Nvidia drivers. This used to be my favorite 3D gaming mode for my Samsung 3D plasma that supports this page flipping and checkerboard. Now I am stuck with 3DTV Play or Checkerboard (DLP mode). I was very happy with Frame sequential/Generic CRT mode, full resolution per eye, 1080p30hz which was very playable for many games like Batman AC and had an amazing 3D quality, way better then Checkerboard.
So, it feels like Nvidia is removing features not adding any... Do no expect SBS or FP 1080p30hz from Nvidia, they don't care about this, they are only worried about 3D Vision + 3D Vision Ready displays. 3DTV Play is just a spare product which doesn't require their glasses and emitter, so they don't really care about improving this. I used to believe on Andrew/Nvidia promises, but after waiting for almost 2 years for native checkerboard support for 3DTV Play, without having to use Rollermod I completely lost my faith. Also, after I found out that Nvidia had removed the Generic CRT mode from HDMI 1.3 TVs just to screw us Samsung TV/CRT monitors users, I really don't expect much from them when it comes to user requests like the ones we're making here. Nvidia have other $$$ priorities.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
Yes, maybe in 2013 you'll have HDMI 1.5 standard that enables 1080p60hz in 3DTVs, but you'll not have SBS or FP 1080p30hz in 3DTV Play. You keep waiting, I don't believe we'll ever have this features, cause Nvidia doesn't care about this, cause they will not make any more money out of it. 3D Vision is their priority, not 3DTV Play.
Yes, maybe in 2013 you'll have HDMI 1.5 standard that enables 1080p60hz in 3DTVs, but you'll not have SBS or FP 1080p30hz in 3DTV Play. You keep waiting, I don't believe we'll ever have this features, cause Nvidia doesn't care about this, cause they will not make any more money out of it. 3D Vision is their priority, not 3DTV Play.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='francomg' date='04 April 2012 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1333549004' post='1391894']cause Nvidia doesn't care about this, cause they will not make any more money out of it.
[/quote]
That's not exact.
OK, they will not make many money with 3DTVPlay directly.
But, if 3DTV owners buy TriDef, they are free to switch to a Radeon card tomorrow (face up to reality, PhysX is not an essential feature).
So it's in their interest to provide the best 3DTV driver too.
[quote name='francomg' date='04 April 2012 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1333549004' post='1391894']cause Nvidia doesn't care about this, cause they will not make any more money out of it.
That's not exact.
OK, they will not make many money with 3DTVPlay directly.
But, if 3DTV owners buy TriDef, they are free to switch to a Radeon card tomorrow (face up to reality, PhysX is not an essential feature).
So it's in their interest to provide the best 3DTV driver too.
I hear you Zprince, so why hasn't Nvidia???? You have a good point there, totally agreed. Come one, me and Roller have been reading Andrew and Nvidia promisses for over a year and nothing happened. Oh yes, something happened, Nvidia has removed the Generic CRT mode from their drivers, so no more frame sequential 1080p30hz for Samsung 3DTV owners that are using Rollermod. Because of that some users may decide to use Tridef instead.
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
I hear you Zprince, so why hasn't Nvidia???? You have a good point there, totally agreed. Come one, me and Roller have been reading Andrew and Nvidia promisses for over a year and nothing happened. Oh yes, something happened, Nvidia has removed the Generic CRT mode from their drivers, so no more frame sequential 1080p30hz for Samsung 3DTV owners that are using Rollermod. Because of that some users may decide to use Tridef instead.
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='francomg' date='04 April 2012 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1333555574' post='1391939']
I hear you Zprince, so why hasn't Nvidia???? You have a good point there, totally agreed. Come one, me and Roller have been reading Andrew and Nvidia promisses for over a year and nothing happened. Oh yes, something happened, Nvidia has removed the Generic CRT mode from their drivers, so no more frame sequential 1080p30hz for Samsung 3DTV owners that are using Rollermod. Because of that some users may decide to use Tridef instead.
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
[/quote]
Absolutely. A lot of people struggle to put it eloquently though. I'd like to request an update of some form from nvidia, as a matter of courtesy for those of us who are paying customers and frequently check back here to see that there has been no information made available to us.
[quote name='francomg' date='04 April 2012 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1333555574' post='1391939']
I hear you Zprince, so why hasn't Nvidia???? You have a good point there, totally agreed. Come one, me and Roller have been reading Andrew and Nvidia promisses for over a year and nothing happened. Oh yes, something happened, Nvidia has removed the Generic CRT mode from their drivers, so no more frame sequential 1080p30hz for Samsung 3DTV owners that are using Rollermod. Because of that some users may decide to use Tridef instead.
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
Absolutely. A lot of people struggle to put it eloquently though. I'd like to request an update of some form from nvidia, as a matter of courtesy for those of us who are paying customers and frequently check back here to see that there has been no information made available to us.
There are a couple lower resolutions that appear to work like 1650x1050 and 1280x720 but I don't know if there are more.
Some games are not very playable in 3D for various reasons so for instance Counter-Strike Source has to run at 120 fps vsynced instead.
To get to the point most of the time the HDMI link lacks the bandwidth to transfer native resolution high framerate 3D.
The native resolution is either optimized for film at 24hz or 60hz 2D.
As far as I understand most TV's supported by 3DTV Play supports framepacked 720@60hz or 1080@24hz.
Otherwise there is checkerboard pattern.
Checkerboard offers half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
720p offers about half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
Side-by-side obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Top-and-Bottom obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Interlaced offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
From my perspective I can see five different ways of transmitting information equivalent of half the native resolution to each eye.
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
Any of the reduced 1080p solutions oculd result in problems reading small chat text in WoW for instance.
If we are talking about scaling either side-by-side or top-and-bottom is good as the scaling is simple and only produces artifacts in horizontal or vertical direction.
Talking about driver features,
My monitor is quite dumb and would need help from nvidia to render the side-by-side version of Sonic Generations.
PS. I don't own a TV and couldn't say which of the half-native resolution @ 60hz looks best.
I just like to have a 1:1 pixel mapping unless it is really lowres content like really old games or dvd playback
(watching an actual postcard size window is not particularly fun).
There are a couple lower resolutions that appear to work like 1650x1050 and 1280x720 but I don't know if there are more.
Some games are not very playable in 3D for various reasons so for instance Counter-Strike Source has to run at 120 fps vsynced instead.
To get to the point most of the time the HDMI link lacks the bandwidth to transfer native resolution high framerate 3D.
The native resolution is either optimized for film at 24hz or 60hz 2D.
As far as I understand most TV's supported by 3DTV Play supports framepacked 720@60hz or 1080@24hz.
Otherwise there is checkerboard pattern.
Checkerboard offers half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
720p offers about half the resolution to each eye at 60hz
Side-by-side obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Top-and-Bottom obviously offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
Interlaced offers half the resolution to eacy eye at 60hz
From my perspective I can see five different ways of transmitting information equivalent of half the native resolution to each eye.
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
Any of the reduced 1080p solutions oculd result in problems reading small chat text in WoW for instance.
If we are talking about scaling either side-by-side or top-and-bottom is good as the scaling is simple and only produces artifacts in horizontal or vertical direction.
Talking about driver features,
My monitor is quite dumb and would need help from nvidia to render the side-by-side version of Sonic Generations.
PS. I don't own a TV and couldn't say which of the half-native resolution @ 60hz looks best.
I just like to have a 1:1 pixel mapping unless it is really lowres content like really old games or dvd playback
(watching an actual postcard size window is not particularly fun).
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
[/quote]
You are correct, however with 3dtvplay scaling is applied automatically in this mode and the image is stretched to full screen, so no 1:1 can be retained. Besides, who would play with black borders on the sides
The only true way to play at 60hz without any scaling issues would be to play at 720p resolution with 1:1 mapping with big black areas around.
You are correct, however with 3dtvplay scaling is applied automatically in this mode and the image is stretched to full screen, so no 1:1 can be retained. Besides, who would play with black borders on the sides
http://helixmod.blogspot.com/
is this too simple for nvidia ? does nvidia think we are idiots ?
A default option for no user intervention is used EVERYWHERE in the nvidia software.
THE SAME THING HAPPENS FOR SLI setup: the default flag is "AUTOMATIC MODE" while you can choose "ALTERNATE FRAME RENDERING 1 or 2" (no one knows the difference as it is for "no user understending")
automatic mode is the default choice while, AFR is a power user custom selection....
move oooonnn do not joke with us pleaseee
is this too simple for nvidia ? does nvidia think we are idiots ?
A default option for no user intervention is used EVERYWHERE in the nvidia software.
THE SAME THING HAPPENS FOR SLI setup: the default flag is "AUTOMATIC MODE" while you can choose "ALTERNATE FRAME RENDERING 1 or 2" (no one knows the difference as it is for "no user understending")
automatic mode is the default choice while, AFR is a power user custom selection....
move oooonnn do not joke with us pleaseee
I own a Panasonic VT30 since it's (one of?) the best 2011 3DTV.
I'd like to play in good condition...
I have had enough of words, i want acts !
I own a Panasonic VT30 since it's (one of?) the best 2011 3DTV.
I'd like to play in good condition...
I have had enough of words, i want acts !
MOTHERBOARD: Asus Z87-WS C2 / CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz
GRAPHIC: 2 * GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition / RAM: Kingston 2x8Go @ 2400MHz, CAS 11
SSD OS: Intel SSD 520 180Go / SSD GAMES: Crucial M500 960 Go
MONITORS: 3 * DELL U2515H / 3DTV: LG 65UG870V
I am well aware of the request to add side/side support.
I have said it earlier this year, and I wills ay it again that this feature is on our roadmap, its just behind other features right now that other users have requested. [b]We will add this feature to future drivers.[/b]
[/quote]
So, any news about that in the 300.xx drivers ?
I am well aware of the request to add side/side support.
I have said it earlier this year, and I wills ay it again that this feature is on our roadmap, its just behind other features right now that other users have requested. We will add this feature to future drivers.
So, any news about that in the 300.xx drivers ?
MOTHERBOARD: Asus Z87-WS C2 / CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz
GRAPHIC: 2 * GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition / RAM: Kingston 2x8Go @ 2400MHz, CAS 11
SSD OS: Intel SSD 520 180Go / SSD GAMES: Crucial M500 960 Go
MONITORS: 3 * DELL U2515H / 3DTV: LG 65UG870V
Nvidia doesn't care about this, they have other priorites. I already lost my faith on this since Andrew promissed to add Checkerboard feature to 3DTV Play in June 2010 and nothing happened since them.
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
Nvidia doesn't care about this, they have other priorites. I already lost my faith on this since Andrew promissed to add Checkerboard feature to 3DTV Play in June 2010 and nothing happened since them.
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
[/quote]
Yes we do!
He brought me SLI support for 3DVision after 10 month waiting.
And he spend ATI customers a driver licence for SBS support a year ago.
So, we have to be patient, Santa is a busy man!
regards,
Robert
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
Yes we do!
He brought me SLI support for 3DVision after 10 month waiting.
And he spend ATI customers a driver licence for SBS support a year ago.
So, we have to be patient, Santa is a busy man!
regards,
Robert
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
[/quote]
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
[quote name='3DRobert' date='27 March 2012 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1332836876' post='1388447']
Robert
[/quote]
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
So come one, do you all believe in Santa????
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
[quote name='3DRobert' date='27 March 2012 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1332836876' post='1388447']
Robert
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
MOTHERBOARD: Asus Z87-WS C2 / CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz
GRAPHIC: 2 * GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition / RAM: Kingston 2x8Go @ 2400MHz, CAS 11
SSD OS: Intel SSD 520 180Go / SSD GAMES: Crucial M500 960 Go
MONITORS: 3 * DELL U2515H / 3DTV: LG 65UG870V
any way 3DTV i think is better than nvidia 3d vision tool .. simple and you can choose what type of 3d do you want
Tridef 3D is a fabulous software .. but it is problem that decrease the FPS to the half becouse it rendering the same view twice with slight different angle
we just now waiting for the game developer to support 3d playing like crysis 2 .. that will make nvidia make a new decision
any way 3DTV i think is better than nvidia 3d vision tool .. simple and you can choose what type of 3d do you want
Tridef 3D is a fabulous software .. but it is problem that decrease the FPS to the half becouse it rendering the same view twice with slight different angle
we just now waiting for the game developer to support 3d playing like crysis 2 .. that will make nvidia make a new decision
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
[/quote]
You forgot to mention that page flipping 1080p30hz is no longer available for HDMI 1.3 TVs using the latest Nvidia drivers. This used to be my favorite 3D gaming mode for my Samsung 3D plasma that supports this page flipping and checkerboard. Now I am stuck with 3DTV Play or Checkerboard (DLP mode). I was very happy with Frame sequential/Generic CRT mode, full resolution per eye, 1080p30hz which was very playable for many games like Batman AC and had an amazing 3D quality, way better then Checkerboard.
So, it feels like Nvidia is removing features not adding any... Do no expect SBS or FP 1080p30hz from Nvidia, they don't care about this, they are only worried about 3D Vision + 3D Vision Ready displays. 3DTV Play is just a spare product which doesn't require their glasses and emitter, so they don't really care about improving this. I used to believe on Andrew/Nvidia promises, but after waiting for almost 2 years for native checkerboard support for 3DTV Play, without having to use Rollermod I completely lost my faith. Also, after I found out that Nvidia had removed the Generic CRT mode from HDMI 1.3 TVs just to screw us Samsung TV/CRT monitors users, I really don't expect much from them when it comes to user requests like the ones we're making here. Nvidia have other $$$ priorities.
I don't believe in Santa, but i'm still hoping Nvidia cares about customers, and i want to know if Andrew was telling the truth or was lying.
I don't understand Nvidia position.
In a certain sense, Nvidia is pushing us to buy TriDef. And if we buy it, we are "free" to switch to a AMD card tomorrow, right ?
Andrew, who is the "marketing guy", should know about "lock in".
So come on. Lock us with the best 3DTV middleware by adding
- half-1080p60 per eye (Top Bottom, Side by Side, and Checkerboard(already exists for 1.3) )
- real-1080p30 per eye (Frame Packing, Page Flipping(already exists for 1.3) )
This is not incompatible with your "no user intervention" rule.
As for general settings (ex: AA) we would set a general 3D mode, and then for each games choose another one if we want.
Hello, i've sent you a private message.
You forgot to mention that page flipping 1080p30hz is no longer available for HDMI 1.3 TVs using the latest Nvidia drivers. This used to be my favorite 3D gaming mode for my Samsung 3D plasma that supports this page flipping and checkerboard. Now I am stuck with 3DTV Play or Checkerboard (DLP mode). I was very happy with Frame sequential/Generic CRT mode, full resolution per eye, 1080p30hz which was very playable for many games like Batman AC and had an amazing 3D quality, way better then Checkerboard.
So, it feels like Nvidia is removing features not adding any... Do no expect SBS or FP 1080p30hz from Nvidia, they don't care about this, they are only worried about 3D Vision + 3D Vision Ready displays. 3DTV Play is just a spare product which doesn't require their glasses and emitter, so they don't really care about improving this. I used to believe on Andrew/Nvidia promises, but after waiting for almost 2 years for native checkerboard support for 3DTV Play, without having to use Rollermod I completely lost my faith. Also, after I found out that Nvidia had removed the Generic CRT mode from HDMI 1.3 TVs just to screw us Samsung TV/CRT monitors users, I really don't expect much from them when it comes to user requests like the ones we're making here. Nvidia have other $$$ priorities.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[/quote]
That's not exact.
OK, they will not make many money with 3DTVPlay directly.
But, if 3DTV owners buy TriDef, they are free to switch to a Radeon card tomorrow (face up to reality, PhysX is not an essential feature).
So it's in their interest to provide the best 3DTV driver too.
That's not exact.
OK, they will not make many money with 3DTVPlay directly.
But, if 3DTV owners buy TriDef, they are free to switch to a Radeon card tomorrow (face up to reality, PhysX is not an essential feature).
So it's in their interest to provide the best 3DTV driver too.
MOTHERBOARD: Asus Z87-WS C2 / CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz
GRAPHIC: 2 * GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition / RAM: Kingston 2x8Go @ 2400MHz, CAS 11
SSD OS: Intel SSD 520 180Go / SSD GAMES: Crucial M500 960 Go
MONITORS: 3 * DELL U2515H / 3DTV: LG 65UG870V
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
I hear you Zprince, so why hasn't Nvidia???? You have a good point there, totally agreed. Come one, me and Roller have been reading Andrew and Nvidia promisses for over a year and nothing happened. Oh yes, something happened, Nvidia has removed the Generic CRT mode from their drivers, so no more frame sequential 1080p30hz for Samsung 3DTV owners that are using Rollermod. Because of that some users may decide to use Tridef instead.
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
[/quote]
Absolutely. A lot of people struggle to put it eloquently though. I'd like to request an update of some form from nvidia, as a matter of courtesy for those of us who are paying customers and frequently check back here to see that there has been no information made available to us.
I hear you Zprince, so why hasn't Nvidia???? You have a good point there, totally agreed. Come one, me and Roller have been reading Andrew and Nvidia promisses for over a year and nothing happened. Oh yes, something happened, Nvidia has removed the Generic CRT mode from their drivers, so no more frame sequential 1080p30hz for Samsung 3DTV owners that are using Rollermod. Because of that some users may decide to use Tridef instead.
I think Nvidia is aware how much inferior Tridef is compared to their 3D Vision software so they don't worry to much, I'm sure there are way more 3D Vision and 3DTV Play users than IZ3D and Tridef users. Nvidia is a much bigger company that supports the best games that have been released and they invest way more money on 3D Vision development/marketing combined with the help of some game devs. Nvidia have a much bigger structure compared to the inferior Tridef, so I think they're not really concerned about Tridef, cause if they were we would already have SBS available for 3DTV Play.
I just can't see how an SBS integration with 3DTV Play can take more than a year to be fully functional. To me, they don't care about this and they're not thinking about adding it. Andrew said the same thing about Checkerboard implementation to 3DTV Play in 2010, and today is 2012 and still..... nothing.
That's where all my negativity comes from you see....
Absolutely. A lot of people struggle to put it eloquently though. I'd like to request an update of some form from nvidia, as a matter of courtesy for those of us who are paying customers and frequently check back here to see that there has been no information made available to us.