Can we talk about Crosstalk? Panasonic GT30 3DTV Play Batman Arkham City Crosstalk
Hello
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Vipney.... Tell me if you see this images taken from Batman AC with not Crosstalk. If you see a lot of Crosstalk i think is your TV, as already tested in my Samsung 3D active TV and have crosstalk.
For me all this images look great in LG 3D Cinema (Passive) with great depth (in and out)
The one with Gatubela, her face is popout the screen.
Vipney.... Tell me if you see this images taken from Batman AC with not Crosstalk. If you see a lot of Crosstalk i think is your TV, as already tested in my Samsung 3D active TV and have crosstalk.
For me all this images look great in LG 3D Cinema (Passive) with great depth (in and out)
The one with Gatubela, her face is popout the screen.
I play Batman Arkahm City using my 63" Samsung Plasma 3DTV C7000. I use Generic CRT mode which is full resolution per eye, frame sequential. I've never tried this game in frame packing mode 3DTV Play, cause I don't stand 720p in such a big screen. Low resolution is terrible for big screens in my opinion.
I understand you can only use 3DTV Play since you bought Panasonic, so you must play 720p60hz and 1080p24hz is too slow and lame.
I don't know if crosstak is worse in frame packing compared to Generic CRT mode (frame sequential), so I can't really know if you are really having a ghosting issue or you think the game is suppose to be crosstalk free.
Have you ever played 3D Vision using a 3D Vision ready display or are you new to 3D gaming at all? I don't know why, but usually 3D Vision Ready monitors despite of beign LCD, they show less crosstalk for most games compared to 3DTVs for 3D gaming. In the other hand 3D movies, SBS or BD3D have much less ghosting compared to these 3D Vision Ready LCD displays. Go figure?????
Crosstak is the bad thing of 3D nowadays, in some games it's not that bad at all, others are not that good. Batman is a mostly dark game and darker scenes contribute with ghosting issues. I don't think ghosting is a big problem in this game during normal gameplay using a 3DTV. Batman character, thugs and the overall enviroment looks amazing in 3D, I can only see some double images when there's a light spot or lamps on the game, that's normal. It's the most comom crosstalk issue, black with white combined, there's nothing we can do about this right now, especially using a Plasma TV which are known for having issues with darker scenes and white contrast even with 3D movies, you will get crosstalk.
Now, if you had a LED TV it could be even worse, so be happy that you got a Panasonic and they're known as the best 3D TVs in the market and have less ghosting issues compared to others. There's nothing wrong with your TV, crosstalk in 3D gaming is ALWAYS much worse than 3D movies and 3DBD. Get used to this. Don't try to compare.
The cut scenes in Batman really suffers from excessive crosstalk issues using a Plasma or LED 3DTV, that's the bad part, for example when you die in this game, the bad guys pop out the screen to make fun of your loss, and there's severe ghosting in these scenes, cause it's totally dark and there's too much pop out depending on your depth/convergence settings, so it's normal to have excessive ghosting in these scenes.
Cut scenes have a differente perspective in depth and convergence compared to normal gameplay scenes, so it's normal to have more ghosting than ordinary gameplay. Don't worry about that, ignore this.
Now if your gameplay scenes are fine, you don't have anything to worry, cause 95% of the time you'll be playing the game, kicking the face of thugs and flying around Arkham City, not watching cut scenes, so don't be too picky about this. 3D still has a lot field to evolve in terms of crosstalk problems. Just get used to this...
I play Batman Arkahm City using my 63" Samsung Plasma 3DTV C7000. I use Generic CRT mode which is full resolution per eye, frame sequential. I've never tried this game in frame packing mode 3DTV Play, cause I don't stand 720p in such a big screen. Low resolution is terrible for big screens in my opinion.
I understand you can only use 3DTV Play since you bought Panasonic, so you must play 720p60hz and 1080p24hz is too slow and lame.
I don't know if crosstak is worse in frame packing compared to Generic CRT mode (frame sequential), so I can't really know if you are really having a ghosting issue or you think the game is suppose to be crosstalk free.
Have you ever played 3D Vision using a 3D Vision ready display or are you new to 3D gaming at all? I don't know why, but usually 3D Vision Ready monitors despite of beign LCD, they show less crosstalk for most games compared to 3DTVs for 3D gaming. In the other hand 3D movies, SBS or BD3D have much less ghosting compared to these 3D Vision Ready LCD displays. Go figure?????
Crosstak is the bad thing of 3D nowadays, in some games it's not that bad at all, others are not that good. Batman is a mostly dark game and darker scenes contribute with ghosting issues. I don't think ghosting is a big problem in this game during normal gameplay using a 3DTV. Batman character, thugs and the overall enviroment looks amazing in 3D, I can only see some double images when there's a light spot or lamps on the game, that's normal. It's the most comom crosstalk issue, black with white combined, there's nothing we can do about this right now, especially using a Plasma TV which are known for having issues with darker scenes and white contrast even with 3D movies, you will get crosstalk.
Now, if you had a LED TV it could be even worse, so be happy that you got a Panasonic and they're known as the best 3D TVs in the market and have less ghosting issues compared to others. There's nothing wrong with your TV, crosstalk in 3D gaming is ALWAYS much worse than 3D movies and 3DBD. Get used to this. Don't try to compare.
The cut scenes in Batman really suffers from excessive crosstalk issues using a Plasma or LED 3DTV, that's the bad part, for example when you die in this game, the bad guys pop out the screen to make fun of your loss, and there's severe ghosting in these scenes, cause it's totally dark and there's too much pop out depending on your depth/convergence settings, so it's normal to have excessive ghosting in these scenes.
Cut scenes have a differente perspective in depth and convergence compared to normal gameplay scenes, so it's normal to have more ghosting than ordinary gameplay. Don't worry about that, ignore this.
Now if your gameplay scenes are fine, you don't have anything to worry, cause 95% of the time you'll be playing the game, kicking the face of thugs and flying around Arkham City, not watching cut scenes, so don't be too picky about this. 3D still has a lot field to evolve in terms of crosstalk problems. Just get used to this...
Sorry for my english,
Cheers,
Francomg
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Thanks everyone!
[/quote]
The problem is unfortunately 100% the TV, and there's nothing you can do to appreciably improve it beyond getting a new display. Any active shutter based Plasma or LCD from 2010 and 2011 is going to be just as bad, so your options are fairly limited if you want HQ 3D (with a DLP or the HMZ-T1 HMD being your only truly significant upgrades). You can hold out for the 2012 models and hope they're significantly improved, but no one was pushing such advancements at CES, so they'll probably be about the same.
[quote name='Vipney' date='24 January 2012 - 09:39 AM' timestamp='1327397992' post='1359868']
Hello
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Thanks everyone!
The problem is unfortunately 100% the TV, and there's nothing you can do to appreciably improve it beyond getting a new display. Any active shutter based Plasma or LCD from 2010 and 2011 is going to be just as bad, so your options are fairly limited if you want HQ 3D (with a DLP or the HMZ-T1 HMD being your only truly significant upgrades). You can hold out for the 2012 models and hope they're significantly improved, but no one was pushing such advancements at CES, so they'll probably be about the same.
I don't know if its already been suggested, but you can try adjusting Contrast on the TV itself. This can reduce crosstalk significantly on many 3D displays at the expense of brightness/contrast in 3D ofc.
I don't know if its already been suggested, but you can try adjusting Contrast on the TV itself. This can reduce crosstalk significantly on many 3D displays at the expense of brightness/contrast in 3D ofc.
Panasonic TC-P50GT25 here...Just revisited Batman AC when I read your thread. I fixed the crosstalk issue with my Panny.
Your fix is here!
1. Leave your Nvidia Control panel "Depth" setting at its default 15%. (I know it's counter-intuitive...) and enable "in-game" 3D Vision advanced settings like convergence.
2. Start game.
3. When Bruce Wayne puts on the batman suit for the first time, jump down to street level and make batman face you. He will be really big on screen.
4. Press and hold "Ctrl + F6" (it takes 15-25 seconds of holding it down) Your eyes will tweak a bit when it starts happening.
5. When you align or "converge" perfectly on Batman and he comes into perfect focus you will have it!
6. Now you will not see the crosstalk anymore because there is a proper amount of separation for the depth amount! Now all of your cutscenes will be perfect and gameplay will be verrrrry comfortable.
- It seems with this game that the developers coded it for the default 15% depth specifically. We all like to leave our depth at 100% but in this case you will be very surprised at the perfect "toyifying" effect that you have been missing out on in this game.
- There are limits to depth when interaxial distance is fixed as it is in Batman AC. For example if you are peering into a doll-house you converge close to your face...not out into the next room. Batman AC is essentially a doll-house. Setting the depth to shallow 15% allows you to converge perfectly on the entire "scene"....not just one object. This results in a verrry confortable and high pop-out experience.
Panny's are the BEST! /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
Panasonic TC-P50GT25 here...Just revisited Batman AC when I read your thread. I fixed the crosstalk issue with my Panny.
Your fix is here!
1. Leave your Nvidia Control panel "Depth" setting at its default 15%. (I know it's counter-intuitive...) and enable "in-game" 3D Vision advanced settings like convergence.
2. Start game.
3. When Bruce Wayne puts on the batman suit for the first time, jump down to street level and make batman face you. He will be really big on screen.
4. Press and hold "Ctrl + F6" (it takes 15-25 seconds of holding it down) Your eyes will tweak a bit when it starts happening.
5. When you align or "converge" perfectly on Batman and he comes into perfect focus you will have it!
6. Now you will not see the crosstalk anymore because there is a proper amount of separation for the depth amount! Now all of your cutscenes will be perfect and gameplay will be verrrrry comfortable.
- It seems with this game that the developers coded it for the default 15% depth specifically. We all like to leave our depth at 100% but in this case you will be very surprised at the perfect "toyifying" effect that you have been missing out on in this game.
- There are limits to depth when interaxial distance is fixed as it is in Batman AC. For example if you are peering into a doll-house you converge close to your face...not out into the next room. Batman AC is essentially a doll-house. Setting the depth to shallow 15% allows you to converge perfectly on the entire "scene"....not just one object. This results in a verrry confortable and high pop-out experience.
Panny's are the BEST! /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
I would rather have ghsoting than playing any game with only 15% depth, that's just my opinion.
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
I would rather have ghsoting than playing any game with only 15% depth, that's just my opinion.
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits - Core i7 2600K @ 4.5ghz - Asus Maximus IV Extreme Z68 - Geforce EVGA GTX 690 - 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 (2T) - Thermaltake Armor+ - SSD Intel 510 Series Sata3 256GB - HD WD Caviar Black Sata3 64mb 2TB - HD WD Caviar Black 1TB Sata3 64mb - Bose Sound System - LG H20L GGW Blu Ray/DVD/CD RW - LG GH20 DVD RAM - PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W - Samsung S27A950D 3D Vision Ready + 3D HDTV SAMSUNG PL63C7000 3DTVPLAY + ROLLERMOD CHECKERBOARD
[quote name='francomg' date='27 January 2012 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1327676432' post='1361373']
I would rather have ghsoting than playing any game with only 15% depth, that's just my opinion.
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
[/quote]
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
[quote name='francomg' date='27 January 2012 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1327676432' post='1361373']
I would rather have ghsoting than playing any game with only 15% depth, that's just my opinion.
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
[quote name='reallink' date='27 January 2012 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1327690232' post='1361470']
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
[/quote]
I disagree.
I've started 3d gaming since early 2011 which was with the Panasonic GT 42 inch.
I upgrade to the Panasonic GT30 55 inch.
I've spent countless hours tweaking and configuring PS3 and PC games with this set and have also researched everything there is about 3D gaming and I've finally registered to this forum once I seen the this thread as After playing Arkham city on the PS3 and had no cross talk, experiencing it on the PC puzzled me a bit.
First off all the money for Nvidia is in The £d vision 2 set for PC direct to a 3D monitor. Half the work goes into 3D play and the compatibility due to this. The best experience to date would be with the vision 2 kit and this monitor;
ASUS VG278H - 27-Inch 16:9 3D Full HD LED Monitor
Which comes with a free pair of glasses.
However all is not lost and there are ways to get an enjoyable experience with your Panasonic.
1. Turn brightness up to full actually in the Arkham city game
2. Select "normal" in the Panasonic TV menu (Normal is the the brightest picture setting for all Panasonic TV's with naked image processing.
3. Set your TV's gamma setting in advanced controls to 2.2 or basically the middle ground of the settings available
4. Set the TV's Contrast fairly high and adjust brightness to your preference but as previously advised the higher these settings the better to eliminate cross talk (the gamma settings help us have a bright picture but keep the richness of the black level to avoid the washed out gray picture, setting your colour levels and digital vibrancy via Nvidia control panel also help).
Now Once all of that is sorted TV wise we go to the 3D TV play settings
Go to the control panel and enable the set keyboard short cuts, set the depth, convergence to suitable keys which are quicker to press than holding control etc, and also set your save key when you have it right.
Start a new game of Arkham so it starts with catwoman kill all the guys in the room.
enable her cat vision and look towards the safe (this will show crosstalk for depth setting) set the depth so no ghosting shows (catwoman shouldn't be too close ust far enough to show the ghosting).
Now the next test is during the cut scene when she opens the safe, this is for your convergence. When she holds her PDA pause the game, set your convergence here to eliminate the ghosting.
This is your benchmarks which will suit the whole game, as stated the default depth of 15% is usually about right and to be honest most 3Daphile gamers go for convergence instead of depth as the pop out is what makes 3d gaming so good, the depth to be fair increased too much adds eye strain and will make your gaming tire you all the more.
Keep jumping between the two catwoman scenes to get it right, with the final test being when Mr strange's head comes in close giving his little speech.
With the GT30 I have a 3d advance setting also where a nudge to the adjustment one click right (no numbers on UK sets) helps me get rid of the little bits or reaming cross talk nicely.
In the scene with Celina kyle and the reporters, yes there will also be cross talk, however with my settings above for in game brightness to the top and your contrast high and your brightness high but a little lower than your contrast hardly any of the cross talk is viable unless you really know what your looking for.
See most people don't realise all 3D Cut scenes on Arkham city are locked to 100% depth no matter what setting you use with 3D TV play. Numerous games do this like Killzone3 on PS3 and it's very annoying.
Try my guide and see how you get on.
There's a simple formula I worked up in my head to help me with every game;
In game brightness + TV gamma on Normal+ high TV contrast+ high colour
With these in mind before you start your depth and convergence half your work is done.
You will have to tweak before you play for a while, it is a pain, but once your done hopefully you should have a great time.
The biggest problem is however (and why this wasn't solved or added puzzles me no end), once you get your depth and convergence right for one game and save this. It may all be wrong for your next game. It's saves for your settings are universal and doesn't keep it specific for that one game only.
I own many 3D games and have to go back to settings I remember by memory, very very annoying. Some games aren't too different so I count that a small mercy. From Just cause 2 to Skyrim can be a bitch though.
I'm soon to buy the Asus monitor mentioned above for an easier life. Problem is that's exactly how Nvidia want it :(.
Anyway Hope I helped.
My rig:
Intel Core i5-2500K (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor
• 2x EVGA GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card in SLI
• 8GB Mushkin Blackline #996995 (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24
• OCZ Solid 3 120GB 2.5" SATA-III Solid State Hard Drive
• 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000524AS 3.5" SATA III Hard Drive
• MSI P67A-G45 Intel P67 (REV B3) Socket 1155 DDR3 PCI-Express Motherboard
• 850W Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro P9 Modular ATX2.3 Power Supply
• NZXT Phantom Black Enthusiast Full Tower Chassis
• Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro Dual Fan CPU Cooler
• Samsung Blu-Ray SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BD-ROM / 16x DVD Writer Drive
CPU professionally clocked from Aria.co.uk to 4.60GHz
[quote name='reallink' date='27 January 2012 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1327690232' post='1361470']
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
I disagree.
I've started 3d gaming since early 2011 which was with the Panasonic GT 42 inch.
I upgrade to the Panasonic GT30 55 inch.
I've spent countless hours tweaking and configuring PS3 and PC games with this set and have also researched everything there is about 3D gaming and I've finally registered to this forum once I seen the this thread as After playing Arkham city on the PS3 and had no cross talk, experiencing it on the PC puzzled me a bit.
First off all the money for Nvidia is in The £d vision 2 set for PC direct to a 3D monitor. Half the work goes into 3D play and the compatibility due to this. The best experience to date would be with the vision 2 kit and this monitor;
ASUS VG278H - 27-Inch 16:9 3D Full HD LED Monitor
Which comes with a free pair of glasses.
However all is not lost and there are ways to get an enjoyable experience with your Panasonic.
1. Turn brightness up to full actually in the Arkham city game
2. Select "normal" in the Panasonic TV menu (Normal is the the brightest picture setting for all Panasonic TV's with naked image processing.
3. Set your TV's gamma setting in advanced controls to 2.2 or basically the middle ground of the settings available
4. Set the TV's Contrast fairly high and adjust brightness to your preference but as previously advised the higher these settings the better to eliminate cross talk (the gamma settings help us have a bright picture but keep the richness of the black level to avoid the washed out gray picture, setting your colour levels and digital vibrancy via Nvidia control panel also help).
Now Once all of that is sorted TV wise we go to the 3D TV play settings
Go to the control panel and enable the set keyboard short cuts, set the depth, convergence to suitable keys which are quicker to press than holding control etc, and also set your save key when you have it right.
Start a new game of Arkham so it starts with catwoman kill all the guys in the room.
enable her cat vision and look towards the safe (this will show crosstalk for depth setting) set the depth so no ghosting shows (catwoman shouldn't be too close ust far enough to show the ghosting).
Now the next test is during the cut scene when she opens the safe, this is for your convergence. When she holds her PDA pause the game, set your convergence here to eliminate the ghosting.
This is your benchmarks which will suit the whole game, as stated the default depth of 15% is usually about right and to be honest most 3Daphile gamers go for convergence instead of depth as the pop out is what makes 3d gaming so good, the depth to be fair increased too much adds eye strain and will make your gaming tire you all the more.
Keep jumping between the two catwoman scenes to get it right, with the final test being when Mr strange's head comes in close giving his little speech.
With the GT30 I have a 3d advance setting also where a nudge to the adjustment one click right (no numbers on UK sets) helps me get rid of the little bits or reaming cross talk nicely.
In the scene with Celina kyle and the reporters, yes there will also be cross talk, however with my settings above for in game brightness to the top and your contrast high and your brightness high but a little lower than your contrast hardly any of the cross talk is viable unless you really know what your looking for.
See most people don't realise all 3D Cut scenes on Arkham city are locked to 100% depth no matter what setting you use with 3D TV play. Numerous games do this like Killzone3 on PS3 and it's very annoying.
Try my guide and see how you get on.
There's a simple formula I worked up in my head to help me with every game;
In game brightness + TV gamma on Normal+ high TV contrast+ high colour
With these in mind before you start your depth and convergence half your work is done.
You will have to tweak before you play for a while, it is a pain, but once your done hopefully you should have a great time.
The biggest problem is however (and why this wasn't solved or added puzzles me no end), once you get your depth and convergence right for one game and save this. It may all be wrong for your next game. It's saves for your settings are universal and doesn't keep it specific for that one game only.
I own many 3D games and have to go back to settings I remember by memory, very very annoying. Some games aren't too different so I count that a small mercy. From Just cause 2 to Skyrim can be a bitch though.
I'm soon to buy the Asus monitor mentioned above for an easier life. Problem is that's exactly how Nvidia want it :(.
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Thanks everyone!
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Thanks everyone!
For me all this images look great in LG 3D Cinema (Passive) with great depth (in and out)
The one with Gatubela, her face is popout the screen.
720p/60
100% depth
For me all this images look great in LG 3D Cinema (Passive) with great depth (in and out)
The one with Gatubela, her face is popout the screen.
720p/60
100% depth
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I understand you can only use 3DTV Play since you bought Panasonic, so you must play 720p60hz and 1080p24hz is too slow and lame.
I don't know if crosstak is worse in frame packing compared to Generic CRT mode (frame sequential), so I can't really know if you are really having a ghosting issue or you think the game is suppose to be crosstalk free.
Have you ever played 3D Vision using a 3D Vision ready display or are you new to 3D gaming at all? I don't know why, but usually 3D Vision Ready monitors despite of beign LCD, they show less crosstalk for most games compared to 3DTVs for 3D gaming. In the other hand 3D movies, SBS or BD3D have much less ghosting compared to these 3D Vision Ready LCD displays. Go figure?????
Crosstak is the bad thing of 3D nowadays, in some games it's not that bad at all, others are not that good. Batman is a mostly dark game and darker scenes contribute with ghosting issues. I don't think ghosting is a big problem in this game during normal gameplay using a 3DTV. Batman character, thugs and the overall enviroment looks amazing in 3D, I can only see some double images when there's a light spot or lamps on the game, that's normal. It's the most comom crosstalk issue, black with white combined, there's nothing we can do about this right now, especially using a Plasma TV which are known for having issues with darker scenes and white contrast even with 3D movies, you will get crosstalk.
Now, if you had a LED TV it could be even worse, so be happy that you got a Panasonic and they're known as the best 3D TVs in the market and have less ghosting issues compared to others. There's nothing wrong with your TV, crosstalk in 3D gaming is ALWAYS much worse than 3D movies and 3DBD. Get used to this. Don't try to compare.
The cut scenes in Batman really suffers from excessive crosstalk issues using a Plasma or LED 3DTV, that's the bad part, for example when you die in this game, the bad guys pop out the screen to make fun of your loss, and there's severe ghosting in these scenes, cause it's totally dark and there's too much pop out depending on your depth/convergence settings, so it's normal to have excessive ghosting in these scenes.
Cut scenes have a differente perspective in depth and convergence compared to normal gameplay scenes, so it's normal to have more ghosting than ordinary gameplay. Don't worry about that, ignore this.
Now if your gameplay scenes are fine, you don't have anything to worry, cause 95% of the time you'll be playing the game, kicking the face of thugs and flying around Arkham City, not watching cut scenes, so don't be too picky about this. 3D still has a lot field to evolve in terms of crosstalk problems. Just get used to this...
Sorry for my english,
Cheers,
Francomg
I understand you can only use 3DTV Play since you bought Panasonic, so you must play 720p60hz and 1080p24hz is too slow and lame.
I don't know if crosstak is worse in frame packing compared to Generic CRT mode (frame sequential), so I can't really know if you are really having a ghosting issue or you think the game is suppose to be crosstalk free.
Have you ever played 3D Vision using a 3D Vision ready display or are you new to 3D gaming at all? I don't know why, but usually 3D Vision Ready monitors despite of beign LCD, they show less crosstalk for most games compared to 3DTVs for 3D gaming. In the other hand 3D movies, SBS or BD3D have much less ghosting compared to these 3D Vision Ready LCD displays. Go figure?????
Crosstak is the bad thing of 3D nowadays, in some games it's not that bad at all, others are not that good. Batman is a mostly dark game and darker scenes contribute with ghosting issues. I don't think ghosting is a big problem in this game during normal gameplay using a 3DTV. Batman character, thugs and the overall enviroment looks amazing in 3D, I can only see some double images when there's a light spot or lamps on the game, that's normal. It's the most comom crosstalk issue, black with white combined, there's nothing we can do about this right now, especially using a Plasma TV which are known for having issues with darker scenes and white contrast even with 3D movies, you will get crosstalk.
Now, if you had a LED TV it could be even worse, so be happy that you got a Panasonic and they're known as the best 3D TVs in the market and have less ghosting issues compared to others. There's nothing wrong with your TV, crosstalk in 3D gaming is ALWAYS much worse than 3D movies and 3DBD. Get used to this. Don't try to compare.
The cut scenes in Batman really suffers from excessive crosstalk issues using a Plasma or LED 3DTV, that's the bad part, for example when you die in this game, the bad guys pop out the screen to make fun of your loss, and there's severe ghosting in these scenes, cause it's totally dark and there's too much pop out depending on your depth/convergence settings, so it's normal to have excessive ghosting in these scenes.
Cut scenes have a differente perspective in depth and convergence compared to normal gameplay scenes, so it's normal to have more ghosting than ordinary gameplay. Don't worry about that, ignore this.
Now if your gameplay scenes are fine, you don't have anything to worry, cause 95% of the time you'll be playing the game, kicking the face of thugs and flying around Arkham City, not watching cut scenes, so don't be too picky about this. 3D still has a lot field to evolve in terms of crosstalk problems. Just get used to this...
Sorry for my english,
Cheers,
Francomg
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Hello
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Thanks everyone!
[/quote]
The problem is unfortunately 100% the TV, and there's nothing you can do to appreciably improve it beyond getting a new display. Any active shutter based Plasma or LCD from 2010 and 2011 is going to be just as bad, so your options are fairly limited if you want HQ 3D (with a DLP or the HMZ-T1 HMD being your only truly significant upgrades). You can hold out for the 2012 models and hope they're significantly improved, but no one was pushing such advancements at CES, so they'll probably be about the same.
Hello
Last weekend I finally took the plunge into 3D gaming by buying a Panasonic TX-P42GT30B television and hooking up my gaming PC to it. My PC is a Core i5 2500K CPU based machine running two NVIDIA GeForce 560ti cards in SLI. I've connected it to the TV using a 10m HDMI 1.4a cable and I've bought the NVIDIA 3DTV Play to enable stereoscopic 3D in games. Gaming is my primary focus for 3D due to the relative scarcity of 3D movies and Batman Arkham City (as a 3D vision enabled game) is the game I'm using to test the whole setup.
The game runs fine in 720p60 3D resolution and I've dropped the detail to ensure I always get 60fps (fraps tested) but the problem I get is terrible crosstalk (ghosting)!
It's particularly bad in cutscenes, the intro with Bruce Wayne and Viki Vale (her hair!) being a good example of this but it's bad everywhere in the game. It also showed up in the demo pictures the 3DTV play setup process shows you in the Devil May Cry (sword arc) and Medusa (Tentacles).
I've tried reducing the 3D effect which helps a bit, adjusting brightness and contrast and all the other recommendations here but I can't shift it. I also don't seem to be able to alter convergence anywhere even with the advanced keyboard shortcuts enabled.
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest and would like to solve it if possible. Especially as I chose the Panasonic set because it was supposed to have the fewest crosstalk problem. Hopefully there's a solution otherwise I'll be taking the TV back!
So my questions are:
Is the problem here the TV, the 3DTV play software or the game?
Are there any settings I can change on the TV to help this?
Assuming the problem is the TV, does anyone have a recommendation for a TV that does not have crosstalk problems?
Thanks everyone!
The problem is unfortunately 100% the TV, and there's nothing you can do to appreciably improve it beyond getting a new display. Any active shutter based Plasma or LCD from 2010 and 2011 is going to be just as bad, so your options are fairly limited if you want HQ 3D (with a DLP or the HMZ-T1 HMD being your only truly significant upgrades). You can hold out for the 2012 models and hope they're significantly improved, but no one was pushing such advancements at CES, so they'll probably be about the same.
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Panasonic TC-P50GT25 here...Just revisited Batman AC when I read your thread. I fixed the crosstalk issue with my Panny.
Your fix is here!
1. Leave your Nvidia Control panel "Depth" setting at its default 15%. (I know it's counter-intuitive...) and enable "in-game" 3D Vision advanced settings like convergence.
2. Start game.
3. When Bruce Wayne puts on the batman suit for the first time, jump down to street level and make batman face you. He will be really big on screen.
4. Press and hold "Ctrl + F6" (it takes 15-25 seconds of holding it down) Your eyes will tweak a bit when it starts happening.
5. When you align or "converge" perfectly on Batman and he comes into perfect focus you will have it!
6. Now you will not see the crosstalk anymore because there is a proper amount of separation for the depth amount! Now all of your cutscenes will be perfect and gameplay will be verrrrry comfortable.
- It seems with this game that the developers coded it for the default 15% depth specifically. We all like to leave our depth at 100% but in this case you will be very surprised at the perfect "toyifying" effect that you have been missing out on in this game.
- There are limits to depth when interaxial distance is fixed as it is in Batman AC. For example if you are peering into a doll-house you converge close to your face...not out into the next room. Batman AC is essentially a doll-house. Setting the depth to shallow 15% allows you to converge perfectly on the entire "scene"....not just one object. This results in a verrry confortable and high pop-out experience.
Panny's are the BEST!
Panasonic TC-P50GT25 here...Just revisited Batman AC when I read your thread. I fixed the crosstalk issue with my Panny.
Your fix is here!
1. Leave your Nvidia Control panel "Depth" setting at its default 15%. (I know it's counter-intuitive...) and enable "in-game" 3D Vision advanced settings like convergence.
2. Start game.
3. When Bruce Wayne puts on the batman suit for the first time, jump down to street level and make batman face you. He will be really big on screen.
4. Press and hold "Ctrl + F6" (it takes 15-25 seconds of holding it down) Your eyes will tweak a bit when it starts happening.
5. When you align or "converge" perfectly on Batman and he comes into perfect focus you will have it!
6. Now you will not see the crosstalk anymore because there is a proper amount of separation for the depth amount! Now all of your cutscenes will be perfect and gameplay will be verrrrry comfortable.
- It seems with this game that the developers coded it for the default 15% depth specifically. We all like to leave our depth at 100% but in this case you will be very surprised at the perfect "toyifying" effect that you have been missing out on in this game.
- There are limits to depth when interaxial distance is fixed as it is in Batman AC. For example if you are peering into a doll-house you converge close to your face...not out into the next room. Batman AC is essentially a doll-house. Setting the depth to shallow 15% allows you to converge perfectly on the entire "scene"....not just one object. This results in a verrry confortable and high pop-out experience.
Panny's are the BEST!
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I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
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I would rather have ghsoting than playing any game with only 15% depth, that's just my opinion.
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
[/quote]
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
I would rather have ghsoting than playing any game with only 15% depth, that's just my opinion.
I don't care about ghosting in cut scenes, I don't play them and it's just a small part of the game. During gameplay I almost don't see any ghosts at all, just when there's light spots and stuff like that.
Some people can play with a flat enviroment and a lot of convergence, and that's a matter of taste. I like playing with at least 50% depth and some pop out, I always use convergence with 3rd person games, but not that much, just some pop out, but depth is very important to me. 15% depth just doesn't look very 3D to me. Just my thoughts though
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
[/quote]
I disagree.
I've started 3d gaming since early 2011 which was with the Panasonic GT 42 inch.
I upgrade to the Panasonic GT30 55 inch.
I've spent countless hours tweaking and configuring PS3 and PC games with this set and have also researched everything there is about 3D gaming and I've finally registered to this forum once I seen the this thread as After playing Arkham city on the PS3 and had no cross talk, experiencing it on the PC puzzled me a bit.
First off all the money for Nvidia is in The £d vision 2 set for PC direct to a 3D monitor. Half the work goes into 3D play and the compatibility due to this. The best experience to date would be with the vision 2 kit and this monitor;
ASUS VG278H - 27-Inch 16:9 3D Full HD LED Monitor
Which comes with a free pair of glasses.
However all is not lost and there are ways to get an enjoyable experience with your Panasonic.
1. Turn brightness up to full actually in the Arkham city game
2. Select "normal" in the Panasonic TV menu (Normal is the the brightest picture setting for all Panasonic TV's with naked image processing.
3. Set your TV's gamma setting in advanced controls to 2.2 or basically the middle ground of the settings available
4. Set the TV's Contrast fairly high and adjust brightness to your preference but as previously advised the higher these settings the better to eliminate cross talk (the gamma settings help us have a bright picture but keep the richness of the black level to avoid the washed out gray picture, setting your colour levels and digital vibrancy via Nvidia control panel also help).
Now Once all of that is sorted TV wise we go to the 3D TV play settings
Go to the control panel and enable the set keyboard short cuts, set the depth, convergence to suitable keys which are quicker to press than holding control etc, and also set your save key when you have it right.
Start a new game of Arkham so it starts with catwoman kill all the guys in the room.
enable her cat vision and look towards the safe (this will show crosstalk for depth setting) set the depth so no ghosting shows (catwoman shouldn't be too close ust far enough to show the ghosting).
Now the next test is during the cut scene when she opens the safe, this is for your convergence. When she holds her PDA pause the game, set your convergence here to eliminate the ghosting.
This is your benchmarks which will suit the whole game, as stated the default depth of 15% is usually about right and to be honest most 3Daphile gamers go for convergence instead of depth as the pop out is what makes 3d gaming so good, the depth to be fair increased too much adds eye strain and will make your gaming tire you all the more.
Keep jumping between the two catwoman scenes to get it right, with the final test being when Mr strange's head comes in close giving his little speech.
With the GT30 I have a 3d advance setting also where a nudge to the adjustment one click right (no numbers on UK sets) helps me get rid of the little bits or reaming cross talk nicely.
In the scene with Celina kyle and the reporters, yes there will also be cross talk, however with my settings above for in game brightness to the top and your contrast high and your brightness high but a little lower than your contrast hardly any of the cross talk is viable unless you really know what your looking for.
See most people don't realise all 3D Cut scenes on Arkham city are locked to 100% depth no matter what setting you use with 3D TV play. Numerous games do this like Killzone3 on PS3 and it's very annoying.
Try my guide and see how you get on.
There's a simple formula I worked up in my head to help me with every game;
In game brightness + TV gamma on Normal+ high TV contrast+ high colour
With these in mind before you start your depth and convergence half your work is done.
You will have to tweak before you play for a while, it is a pain, but once your done hopefully you should have a great time.
The biggest problem is however (and why this wasn't solved or added puzzles me no end), once you get your depth and convergence right for one game and save this. It may all be wrong for your next game. It's saves for your settings are universal and doesn't keep it specific for that one game only.
I own many 3D games and have to go back to settings I remember by memory, very very annoying. Some games aren't too different so I count that a small mercy. From Just cause 2 to Skyrim can be a bitch though.
I'm soon to buy the Asus monitor mentioned above for an easier life. Problem is that's exactly how Nvidia want it :(.
Anyway Hope I helped.
My rig:
Intel Core i5-2500K (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor
• 2x EVGA GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card in SLI
• 8GB Mushkin Blackline #996995 (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24
• OCZ Solid 3 120GB 2.5" SATA-III Solid State Hard Drive
• 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000524AS 3.5" SATA III Hard Drive
• MSI P67A-G45 Intel P67 (REV B3) Socket 1155 DDR3 PCI-Express Motherboard
• 850W Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro P9 Modular ATX2.3 Power Supply
• NZXT Phantom Black Enthusiast Full Tower Chassis
• Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro Dual Fan CPU Cooler
• Samsung Blu-Ray SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BD-ROM / 16x DVD Writer Drive
CPU professionally clocked from Aria.co.uk to 4.60GHz
Yea I agree, it's a little disingenuous and not really a fair solution. You're not "fixing" any deficiency of the display, you're just covering it up by trading wide separation depth for narrower separation pop out. Obviously it's not going to work (or be possible at all) for every game, even if you did happen to like the effect with Batman. Really the only universal solution is to wash out the contrast of his image (use a picture mode with very low gamma, like Game on this Panasonic in particular), decrease the light output (which isn't really possible on this line of plasma, as maxed out, they only produce ~15fL of light output through the glasses--already too dim to make out much of the finer detailing), or artificially inflate your black level by blowing out the brightness setting. Even piling all those solutions on top of one another, the CT is still going to be very noticeable, and everything else will look like crap to.
I disagree.
I've started 3d gaming since early 2011 which was with the Panasonic GT 42 inch.
I upgrade to the Panasonic GT30 55 inch.
I've spent countless hours tweaking and configuring PS3 and PC games with this set and have also researched everything there is about 3D gaming and I've finally registered to this forum once I seen the this thread as After playing Arkham city on the PS3 and had no cross talk, experiencing it on the PC puzzled me a bit.
First off all the money for Nvidia is in The £d vision 2 set for PC direct to a 3D monitor. Half the work goes into 3D play and the compatibility due to this. The best experience to date would be with the vision 2 kit and this monitor;
ASUS VG278H - 27-Inch 16:9 3D Full HD LED Monitor
Which comes with a free pair of glasses.
However all is not lost and there are ways to get an enjoyable experience with your Panasonic.
1. Turn brightness up to full actually in the Arkham city game
2. Select "normal" in the Panasonic TV menu (Normal is the the brightest picture setting for all Panasonic TV's with naked image processing.
3. Set your TV's gamma setting in advanced controls to 2.2 or basically the middle ground of the settings available
4. Set the TV's Contrast fairly high and adjust brightness to your preference but as previously advised the higher these settings the better to eliminate cross talk (the gamma settings help us have a bright picture but keep the richness of the black level to avoid the washed out gray picture, setting your colour levels and digital vibrancy via Nvidia control panel also help).
Now Once all of that is sorted TV wise we go to the 3D TV play settings
Go to the control panel and enable the set keyboard short cuts, set the depth, convergence to suitable keys which are quicker to press than holding control etc, and also set your save key when you have it right.
Start a new game of Arkham so it starts with catwoman kill all the guys in the room.
enable her cat vision and look towards the safe (this will show crosstalk for depth setting) set the depth so no ghosting shows (catwoman shouldn't be too close ust far enough to show the ghosting).
Now the next test is during the cut scene when she opens the safe, this is for your convergence. When she holds her PDA pause the game, set your convergence here to eliminate the ghosting.
This is your benchmarks which will suit the whole game, as stated the default depth of 15% is usually about right and to be honest most 3Daphile gamers go for convergence instead of depth as the pop out is what makes 3d gaming so good, the depth to be fair increased too much adds eye strain and will make your gaming tire you all the more.
Keep jumping between the two catwoman scenes to get it right, with the final test being when Mr strange's head comes in close giving his little speech.
With the GT30 I have a 3d advance setting also where a nudge to the adjustment one click right (no numbers on UK sets) helps me get rid of the little bits or reaming cross talk nicely.
In the scene with Celina kyle and the reporters, yes there will also be cross talk, however with my settings above for in game brightness to the top and your contrast high and your brightness high but a little lower than your contrast hardly any of the cross talk is viable unless you really know what your looking for.
See most people don't realise all 3D Cut scenes on Arkham city are locked to 100% depth no matter what setting you use with 3D TV play. Numerous games do this like Killzone3 on PS3 and it's very annoying.
Try my guide and see how you get on.
There's a simple formula I worked up in my head to help me with every game;
In game brightness + TV gamma on Normal+ high TV contrast+ high colour
With these in mind before you start your depth and convergence half your work is done.
You will have to tweak before you play for a while, it is a pain, but once your done hopefully you should have a great time.
The biggest problem is however (and why this wasn't solved or added puzzles me no end), once you get your depth and convergence right for one game and save this. It may all be wrong for your next game. It's saves for your settings are universal and doesn't keep it specific for that one game only.
I own many 3D games and have to go back to settings I remember by memory, very very annoying. Some games aren't too different so I count that a small mercy. From Just cause 2 to Skyrim can be a bitch though.
I'm soon to buy the Asus monitor mentioned above for an easier life. Problem is that's exactly how Nvidia want it :(.
Anyway Hope I helped.
My rig:
Intel Core i5-2500K (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor
• 2x EVGA GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card in SLI
• 8GB Mushkin Blackline #996995 (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24
• OCZ Solid 3 120GB 2.5" SATA-III Solid State Hard Drive
• 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000524AS 3.5" SATA III Hard Drive
• MSI P67A-G45 Intel P67 (REV B3) Socket 1155 DDR3 PCI-Express Motherboard
• 850W Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro P9 Modular ATX2.3 Power Supply
• NZXT Phantom Black Enthusiast Full Tower Chassis
• Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro Dual Fan CPU Cooler
• Samsung Blu-Ray SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BD-ROM / 16x DVD Writer Drive
CPU professionally clocked from Aria.co.uk to 4.60GHz
CPU: [ Intel I7 6700K Overclocked 4.6GHz,]
GPU [EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING, 11G-P4-6393-KR, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Cooler & LED]
RAM [16GB 3000Mhz DDR4 Corsair Vengeance Heatspreader @ 4000MHZ]
MoBo [Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 5]
OS [64-bit Windows 10 Pro]
SCREENS: [ 1. Samsung QLED 7F 65-Inch TV 2. Optoma HD300X 1080p 3D projector 3 (main screen). Acer Predator X34P 34 Inch WQHD Curved 1900R ultrawide QHD (3440 x 1440) Gaming Monitor]