New Passive Stereo 3D Rig
Hello everyone, long time reader first time poster. I just finished my first home 3D rig. I have delt with shutter glasses before, and just never really liked them, too much flickering, you know. I also invested money in the I-Glasses svga, and while pretty impressive, there was still screen drag, and not true 800x600 resolution. I took it upon myself to try out a polarized passive 3D system.

I got on eBay and picked up two Compaq x1800 mini standup projectors. They are DLP, have a 400:1 contrast ratio, and are rated at 700 lumens. These are spectacular CHEAP projectors, I was able to get both of them for $300 with working lamps.

I purchased circular polarizing plates, clip on flip up glasses, and a pair of cheep plastic glasses (for any guests) from [url="http://www.berezin.com/3D/3dglasses.htm"]Berezin[/url]. Very fair prices, a set of 4x4 polarizing screens cost me ~$174, and the glasses cost about 40 bucks total. Everything was of high quality. The polarizing film (I thought it was literally just going to be film) is encased in a very clear, polished high density plastic. I like this much better then the glass ones, harder to scratch, and it won't shatter if dropped. The cheep glasses are exactly that, cheep, but the clip on flip up ones are perfect for the glasses wearing 3D geek.

The screen that I used I got from eBay, and later found it on berezin for cheaper! is a DaLite Versatol 3D Silver Screen. I got it for $160 shipped. The tripod setup is sturdy, but it's cheep, it doesn't really inspire confidence. But then again I was balancing cost vs function. As far as function, this works very well, it produces very deep 3D images without any hotspots forming due to the matte surface.

Right now I just have it setup in my dining room in a very... ghetto setup... I am missing my main video card for my machine (xfx 7800gtx factory overclock) it's in a RMA process due to an artifacting problem. I am using an old 6500 that doesn't really do the trick. I am able to get unreal tournament loaded up and playing. I can float through the levels before the actual match, but as soon as I click fire to enter the match, the entire game locks up. I've been reading, and it seems like rebuilding the drivers has helped. I am going to actually rebuild the machine, so hopefully I won't have the crashing issues anymore. There is ghosting, that is the only problem I have run into with the system so far. I have a feeling that we are having ghosting issues because the cameras are so close to the screen, it's very bright, and so when I pull them back to fill the screen, I am sure the light will disperse more, and really reduce the ghosting to a bare minimum. The nice thing about polarized systems, is that the cameras don't have to be exactly matched up on the screen, they can be off, or have the corners of a little bit, and still work very nicely. The over very nice thing is the flickering is gone, things actually come OUT of the screen at you (instead of it being like looking into a 'window') and you get a full 60hz experience.

A note to anyone who is going to try this. You have to have a CRT or DLP projector to do this. LCD projection won't work because all LCD screens are pre polarized!

When I get back home tonight I will take some detailed pictures of the equipment I am using, and answer any questions anyone might have. The total cost for this project for myself is around $1,000 if anyone wants to try this, expect to spend a bit more, I was really lucky with the projectors that I found.
Hello everyone, long time reader first time poster. I just finished my first home 3D rig. I have delt with shutter glasses before, and just never really liked them, too much flickering, you know. I also invested money in the I-Glasses svga, and while pretty impressive, there was still screen drag, and not true 800x600 resolution. I took it upon myself to try out a polarized passive 3D system.



I got on eBay and picked up two Compaq x1800 mini standup projectors. They are DLP, have a 400:1 contrast ratio, and are rated at 700 lumens. These are spectacular CHEAP projectors, I was able to get both of them for $300 with working lamps.



I purchased circular polarizing plates, clip on flip up glasses, and a pair of cheep plastic glasses (for any guests) from Berezin. Very fair prices, a set of 4x4 polarizing screens cost me ~$174, and the glasses cost about 40 bucks total. Everything was of high quality. The polarizing film (I thought it was literally just going to be film) is encased in a very clear, polished high density plastic. I like this much better then the glass ones, harder to scratch, and it won't shatter if dropped. The cheep glasses are exactly that, cheep, but the clip on flip up ones are perfect for the glasses wearing 3D geek.



The screen that I used I got from eBay, and later found it on berezin for cheaper! is a DaLite Versatol 3D Silver Screen. I got it for $160 shipped. The tripod setup is sturdy, but it's cheep, it doesn't really inspire confidence. But then again I was balancing cost vs function. As far as function, this works very well, it produces very deep 3D images without any hotspots forming due to the matte surface.



Right now I just have it setup in my dining room in a very... ghetto setup... I am missing my main video card for my machine (xfx 7800gtx factory overclock) it's in a RMA process due to an artifacting problem. I am using an old 6500 that doesn't really do the trick. I am able to get unreal tournament loaded up and playing. I can float through the levels before the actual match, but as soon as I click fire to enter the match, the entire game locks up. I've been reading, and it seems like rebuilding the drivers has helped. I am going to actually rebuild the machine, so hopefully I won't have the crashing issues anymore. There is ghosting, that is the only problem I have run into with the system so far. I have a feeling that we are having ghosting issues because the cameras are so close to the screen, it's very bright, and so when I pull them back to fill the screen, I am sure the light will disperse more, and really reduce the ghosting to a bare minimum. The nice thing about polarized systems, is that the cameras don't have to be exactly matched up on the screen, they can be off, or have the corners of a little bit, and still work very nicely. The over very nice thing is the flickering is gone, things actually come OUT of the screen at you (instead of it being like looking into a 'window') and you get a full 60hz experience.



A note to anyone who is going to try this. You have to have a CRT or DLP projector to do this. LCD projection won't work because all LCD screens are pre polarized!



When I get back home tonight I will take some detailed pictures of the equipment I am using, and answer any questions anyone might have. The total cost for this project for myself is around $1,000 if anyone wants to try this, expect to spend a bit more, I was really lucky with the projectors that I found.

#1
Posted 07/13/2006 04:09 PM   
errr running into some problems here. Does anyone know where I can get some darker polarized glasses? the ones I have right now just aren't cutting it, the ghosting is starting to really get on my nerves. I know the filters rock, because when used in tandam they can completely block out a projector's light. The glasses seem to be on the weak side however. If anyone can help me out, or point me in the right direction I will forever be endebted to you.... /w00t.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':w00t:' />

PS. I fabricated a nice projector mount. Sorry no pictures, but I figured I'd finish the entire rig first. I'll snap some shots tonight and put em up on photobucket
errr running into some problems here. Does anyone know where I can get some darker polarized glasses? the ones I have right now just aren't cutting it, the ghosting is starting to really get on my nerves. I know the filters rock, because when used in tandam they can completely block out a projector's light. The glasses seem to be on the weak side however. If anyone can help me out, or point me in the right direction I will forever be endebted to you.... /w00t.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':w00t:' />



PS. I fabricated a nice projector mount. Sorry no pictures, but I figured I'd finish the entire rig first. I'll snap some shots tonight and put em up on photobucket

#2
Posted 07/14/2006 04:56 PM   
sounds like a great project. I'm really interested on how you get along with this as the pop out at places like Imax 3d is spectacular compared to the shutterglasses. good luck.
sounds like a great project. I'm really interested on how you get along with this as the pop out at places like Imax 3d is spectacular compared to the shutterglasses. good luck.

#3
Posted 07/25/2006 09:51 PM   
[quote name='Rank' date='Jul 25 2006, 02:51 PM']sounds like a great project. I'm really interested on how you get along with this as the pop out at places like Imax 3d is spectacular compared to the shutterglasses. good luck.
[right][post="103742"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Thanks much! I have resolved the ghosting issue I had with the system. What I did was purchase another pair of filters, and had an eye glass customiser put the filters into a pair of old frames that I have! now no ghosting! However I am running into a MAJOR problem. I recently got my 7800gtx back from xfx after the old one toasted. Now nothing works in 3d. I have just rebuilt my computer. Most games just instantly reboot my computer with out ever getting to the 3d. Others will just lock leaving a very nice 3d image on my screen. I don't want to go to the 71 series of drivers or whatever it is, cause it doesn't have support for my 7800... I really don't know what to do, I have all this expencive equipment and nothing to do with it. PLease help if you can!
[quote name='Rank' date='Jul 25 2006, 02:51 PM']sounds like a great project. I'm really interested on how you get along with this as the pop out at places like Imax 3d is spectacular compared to the shutterglasses. good luck.

[post="103742"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]






Thanks much! I have resolved the ghosting issue I had with the system. What I did was purchase another pair of filters, and had an eye glass customiser put the filters into a pair of old frames that I have! now no ghosting! However I am running into a MAJOR problem. I recently got my 7800gtx back from xfx after the old one toasted. Now nothing works in 3d. I have just rebuilt my computer. Most games just instantly reboot my computer with out ever getting to the 3d. Others will just lock leaving a very nice 3d image on my screen. I don't want to go to the 71 series of drivers or whatever it is, cause it doesn't have support for my 7800... I really don't know what to do, I have all this expencive equipment and nothing to do with it. PLease help if you can!

#4
Posted 07/27/2006 04:02 AM   
[quote name='psortland' date='Jul 27 2006, 04:02 AM']PLease help if you can!
[right][post="104017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Dude I wish I could.

Good Luck again and keep us posted. I hope you get a solution.

:)
[quote name='psortland' date='Jul 27 2006, 04:02 AM']PLease help if you can!

[post="104017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




Dude I wish I could.



Good Luck again and keep us posted. I hope you get a solution.



:)

#5
Posted 07/31/2006 06:00 PM   
Any new news yet ?
Any new news yet ?

#6
Posted 08/10/2006 08:09 AM   
[quote]I don't want to go to the 71 series of drivers or whatever it is, cause it doesn't have support for my 7800... I really don't know what to do, I have all this expencive equipment and nothing to do with it. PLease help if you can![/quote]

What drivers are you using? If you haven't already, download and install the most recent chipset drivers for your mobo, uninstall NVIDIA drivers, download and run drivercleaner [url="http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secure-cleaning/Driver-Cleaner.shtml"]http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secu...r-Cleaner.shtml[/url] . Try the 91.31 drivers. Hope you get things working, it sounds like it is going to be a great setup!
I don't want to go to the 71 series of drivers or whatever it is, cause it doesn't have support for my 7800... I really don't know what to do, I have all this expencive equipment and nothing to do with it. PLease help if you can!




What drivers are you using? If you haven't already, download and install the most recent chipset drivers for your mobo, uninstall NVIDIA drivers, download and run drivercleaner http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secu...r-Cleaner.shtml . Try the 91.31 drivers. Hope you get things working, it sounds like it is going to be a great setup!

#7
Posted 08/11/2006 01:09 AM   
[quote name='ohgrant' date='Aug 10 2006, 06:09 PM']What drivers are you using? If you haven't already, download and install the most recent chipset drivers for your mobo, uninstall NVIDIA drivers, download and run drivercleaner [url="http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secure-cleaning/Driver-Cleaner.shtml"]http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secu...r-Cleaner.shtml[/url] . Try the 91.31 drivers. Hope you get things working, it sounds like it is going to be a great setup!
[right][post="106643"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Thanks for the advice! I have done all of this. It looks to be a problem with dual core processors and the newer cards. There are some optimizations in the new drivers that conflict with something in the 3d stereo drivers. A user found a way to disable one of the cores with windows. I will be moving to Kansas City here, and won't have all my stuff for about 3 weeks. Once I am all setup again I will let you know how everything works!
[quote name='ohgrant' date='Aug 10 2006, 06:09 PM']What drivers are you using? If you haven't already, download and install the most recent chipset drivers for your mobo, uninstall NVIDIA drivers, download and run drivercleaner http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secu...r-Cleaner.shtml . Try the 91.31 drivers. Hope you get things working, it sounds like it is going to be a great setup!

[post="106643"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




Thanks for the advice! I have done all of this. It looks to be a problem with dual core processors and the newer cards. There are some optimizations in the new drivers that conflict with something in the 3d stereo drivers. A user found a way to disable one of the cores with windows. I will be moving to Kansas City here, and won't have all my stuff for about 3 weeks. Once I am all setup again I will let you know how everything works!

#8
Posted 08/14/2006 04:01 PM   
Good Stuff !!!

I am considering building a stereoscopic display with fresnels and a few lenses. I have shutter glasses and the novelty wore off very early becuase of the flicker. The optics for my display I think I can figure out. But, how do you send two different images to two different monitors? (projectors in your case)

Thanks for the help.

I am working toward a fully emersive stereoscopic display with head tracking using CRTs and fibre optics. This may take a while.... can't wait for the industry to fulfill our simulation dreams.
Good Stuff !!!



I am considering building a stereoscopic display with fresnels and a few lenses. I have shutter glasses and the novelty wore off very early becuase of the flicker. The optics for my display I think I can figure out. But, how do you send two different images to two different monitors? (projectors in your case)



Thanks for the help.



I am working toward a fully emersive stereoscopic display with head tracking using CRTs and fibre optics. This may take a while.... can't wait for the industry to fulfill our simulation dreams.

#9
Posted 08/15/2006 12:43 AM   
[quote name='Stadius' date='Aug 14 2006, 05:43 PM']Good Stuff !!!

I am considering building a stereoscopic display with fresnels and a few lenses.    I have shutter glasses and the novelty wore off very early becuase of the flicker.  The optics for my display I think I can figure out.  But, how do you send two different images to two different monitors? (projectors in your case) 

Thanks for the help.

I am working toward a fully emersive stereoscopic display with head tracking using CRTs and fibre optics.  This may take a while.... can't wait for the industry to fulfill our simulation dreams.
[right][post="107287"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

The nvidia drivers provide dual view for dual head video cards. You can then enable dual head stereoscopic projection :D
[quote name='Stadius' date='Aug 14 2006, 05:43 PM']Good Stuff !!!



I am considering building a stereoscopic display with fresnels and a few lenses.    I have shutter glasses and the novelty wore off very early becuase of the flicker.  The optics for my display I think I can figure out.  But, how do you send two different images to two different monitors? (projectors in your case) 



Thanks for the help.



I am working toward a fully emersive stereoscopic display with head tracking using CRTs and fibre optics.  This may take a while.... can't wait for the industry to fulfill our simulation dreams.

[post="107287"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




The nvidia drivers provide dual view for dual head video cards. You can then enable dual head stereoscopic projection :D

#10
Posted 08/15/2006 02:25 PM   
[quote name='psortland' date='Aug 15 2006, 07:25 AM']The nvidia drivers provide dual view for dual head video cards. You can then enable dual head stereoscopic projection :D
[right][post="107376"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Thanks so much for the informative posts! I'm getting ready to build a pretty similar setup so this has been a great resource. :)
I have a question about this last part though. I've been fiddling with DualView and the latest Forceware drivers and I cannot seem to manipulate the card (NVidia 7800) into sending a "left" signal to one monitor and a "right" signal to the other. Could you please give a few more details on this? Does it matter whether I choose clone, horizontal spanning or dual view? After that, which "Stereo Type" do I choose in the Stereo Properties panel? Every time I choose one of these and enable stereo my secondary monitor goes black and the stereogram is all smooshed into the primary display. What am I doing wrong?

Also, a question about lumens: How are you able to get away with a piddling 700 lumens? All the literature I've read suggests that there is a great deal of light loss when the image has to pass through two polarizing filters before hitting your eye. The few informative pages I've found insist you need around 3000 lumens to get any kind of brightness or contrast out of a passive 3D rig. I could sure save a lot of money if I don't need to exceed 1000 Lumens. That's one of the major price drivers, I've noticed. So, what's your secret?
Thanks again! :)

Pierce
[quote name='psortland' date='Aug 15 2006, 07:25 AM']The nvidia drivers provide dual view for dual head video cards. You can then enable dual head stereoscopic projection :D

[post="107376"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




Thanks so much for the informative posts! I'm getting ready to build a pretty similar setup so this has been a great resource. :)

I have a question about this last part though. I've been fiddling with DualView and the latest Forceware drivers and I cannot seem to manipulate the card (NVidia 7800) into sending a "left" signal to one monitor and a "right" signal to the other. Could you please give a few more details on this? Does it matter whether I choose clone, horizontal spanning or dual view? After that, which "Stereo Type" do I choose in the Stereo Properties panel? Every time I choose one of these and enable stereo my secondary monitor goes black and the stereogram is all smooshed into the primary display. What am I doing wrong?



Also, a question about lumens: How are you able to get away with a piddling 700 lumens? All the literature I've read suggests that there is a great deal of light loss when the image has to pass through two polarizing filters before hitting your eye. The few informative pages I've found insist you need around 3000 lumens to get any kind of brightness or contrast out of a passive 3D rig. I could sure save a lot of money if I don't need to exceed 1000 Lumens. That's one of the major price drivers, I've noticed. So, what's your secret?

Thanks again! :)



Pierce

#11
Posted 09/23/2006 05:58 AM   
[quote name='xepiercex' date='Sep 22 2006, 10:58 PM']Thanks so much for the informative posts!  I'm getting ready to build a pretty similar setup so this has been a great resource.  :)
I have a question about this last part though.  I've been fiddling with DualView and the latest Forceware drivers and I cannot seem to manipulate the card (NVidia 7800) into sending a "left" signal to one monitor and a "right" signal to the other.  Could you please give a few more details on this?  Does it matter whether I choose clone, horizontal spanning or dual view?  After that, which "Stereo Type" do I choose in the Stereo Properties panel?  Every time I choose one of these and enable stereo my secondary monitor goes black and the stereogram is all smooshed into the primary display.  What am I doing wrong?

Also, a question about lumens:  How are you able to get away with a piddling 700 lumens?  All the literature I've read suggests that there is a great deal of light loss when the image has to pass through two polarizing filters before hitting your eye.  The few informative pages I've found insist you need around 3000 lumens to get any kind of brightness or contrast out of a passive 3D rig.  I could sure save a lot of money if I don't need to exceed 1000 Lumens.  That's one of the major price drivers, I've noticed.  So, what's your secret? 
Thanks again!  :)

Pierce
[right][post="115578"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


trust me, 700 lumins is more then enough. 3000 lumins can be an issue if you go with budget or not top notch equipment, it will cause everything to ghost like crazy. I have enough ghosting with 700 lumins. Set the dual head setup to clone view. Then in the 3d settings pannel (93.xx drivers or higher!) select dual VGA output (Dep3d)

That should get you going! A very good polarized filter set and glasses will cost you well into the $2000. This is for IMAX quality gear. You can get gear that will get the job done for around $120 to $180.
[quote name='xepiercex' date='Sep 22 2006, 10:58 PM']Thanks so much for the informative posts!  I'm getting ready to build a pretty similar setup so this has been a great resource.  :)

I have a question about this last part though.  I've been fiddling with DualView and the latest Forceware drivers and I cannot seem to manipulate the card (NVidia 7800) into sending a "left" signal to one monitor and a "right" signal to the other.  Could you please give a few more details on this?  Does it matter whether I choose clone, horizontal spanning or dual view?  After that, which "Stereo Type" do I choose in the Stereo Properties panel?  Every time I choose one of these and enable stereo my secondary monitor goes black and the stereogram is all smooshed into the primary display.  What am I doing wrong?



Also, a question about lumens:  How are you able to get away with a piddling 700 lumens?  All the literature I've read suggests that there is a great deal of light loss when the image has to pass through two polarizing filters before hitting your eye.  The few informative pages I've found insist you need around 3000 lumens to get any kind of brightness or contrast out of a passive 3D rig.  I could sure save a lot of money if I don't need to exceed 1000 Lumens.  That's one of the major price drivers, I've noticed.  So, what's your secret? 

Thanks again!  :)



Pierce

[post="115578"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]






trust me, 700 lumins is more then enough. 3000 lumins can be an issue if you go with budget or not top notch equipment, it will cause everything to ghost like crazy. I have enough ghosting with 700 lumins. Set the dual head setup to clone view. Then in the 3d settings pannel (93.xx drivers or higher!) select dual VGA output (Dep3d)



That should get you going! A very good polarized filter set and glasses will cost you well into the $2000. This is for IMAX quality gear. You can get gear that will get the job done for around $120 to $180.

#12
Posted 09/23/2006 10:52 PM   
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