Planar Stereomirror DIY setup. Make your own for $x,xxx less
3 / 5
I just bought an 8800 gts 640mb .. didn't know there was /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' /> stereo support. I tried the drivers and utility from mtbs3d and still no classic control panel to turn on stereo. The card does seem to be able to run anything I throw at it in any resolution but without stereo I might as well not play games at all.
Anyway I was thinking about hanging on to my 8800 gts and buying a 7900gt for a planar stereo monitor setup using 19" lcds but for the life of me I'm no carpenter to build the box to hold them.
Nvidia community I ask you this: is anyone creating plans for a planar mirror stereo monitor so even a dummy like me can build one? Basically I just would need a detailed instruction on how to build a box to hold to 19" lcd's. Yes this is someone who had 2 years of metal shop and 1 year of woodshop in highschool.. pathetic I know. The initial poster in this thread made the details a little confusing so I'm not sure exactly how all of this is set up. I did see one of these homemade ones on ebay going for almost $3,000.
Please nvidia please, give us 8800 stereo support and a [u]classic[/u] control panel with it instead of the new one!
I just bought an 8800 gts 640mb .. didn't know there was /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' /> stereo support. I tried the drivers and utility from mtbs3d and still no classic control panel to turn on stereo. The card does seem to be able to run anything I throw at it in any resolution but without stereo I might as well not play games at all.
Anyway I was thinking about hanging on to my 8800 gts and buying a 7900gt for a planar stereo monitor setup using 19" lcds but for the life of me I'm no carpenter to build the box to hold them.
Nvidia community I ask you this: is anyone creating plans for a planar mirror stereo monitor so even a dummy like me can build one? Basically I just would need a detailed instruction on how to build a box to hold to 19" lcd's. Yes this is someone who had 2 years of metal shop and 1 year of woodshop in highschool.. pathetic I know. The initial poster in this thread made the details a little confusing so I'm not sure exactly how all of this is set up. I did see one of these homemade ones on ebay going for almost $3,000.
Please nvidia please, give us 8800 stereo support and a classic control panel with it instead of the new one!
A couple of things -- I have walked around looking at various monitors and displays with pair of polarizing glasses and all the lcd screens I have looked at are polarized. But there seem to be two main sorts. One has the polarization vertical, the other at 45 degrees when looked at with standard (Berezin 5501 say) 3d specs. All cheaper LCD computer monitors I looked at polarize vertically so the Berezin standard specs are good for these. But my 2 Apple 23" Cinema display and other Apple screens Ive looked at polarise at 45 degrees -- as do large Sony LCD televisions and presentation monitors. Now Berezin sell another sort of 3d glasses -- their 550S "Polarised theme park 0/90 for super 3d station" which are meant to be rotated 45 degrees relative to the others -- which mean they should be good for the second kind of display. But they seem to me to be identical in performance to the regular kind (I bought a few of both kinds) polarising wise - even tho they are cosmetically slightly different -- grey frames vs black eg. So I will have to get back to Berezin on this. But I will buy a couple of cheaper displays to build a box anyway and use the regular glasses with these.
Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
A couple of things -- I have walked around looking at various monitors and displays with pair of polarizing glasses and all the lcd screens I have looked at are polarized. But there seem to be two main sorts. One has the polarization vertical, the other at 45 degrees when looked at with standard (Berezin 5501 say) 3d specs. All cheaper LCD computer monitors I looked at polarize vertically so the Berezin standard specs are good for these. But my 2 Apple 23" Cinema display and other Apple screens Ive looked at polarise at 45 degrees -- as do large Sony LCD televisions and presentation monitors. Now Berezin sell another sort of 3d glasses -- their 550S "Polarised theme park 0/90 for super 3d station" which are meant to be rotated 45 degrees relative to the others -- which mean they should be good for the second kind of display. But they seem to me to be identical in performance to the regular kind (I bought a few of both kinds) polarising wise - even tho they are cosmetically slightly different -- grey frames vs black eg. So I will have to get back to Berezin on this. But I will buy a couple of cheaper displays to build a box anyway and use the regular glasses with these.
Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
[quote name='glaxon' date='May 11 2007, 05:13 AM']A couple of things -- I have walked around looking at various monitors and displays with pair of polarizing glasses and all the lcd screens I have looked at are polarized. But there seem to be two main sorts. One has the polarization vertical, the other at 45 degrees when looked at with standard (Berezin 5501 say) 3d specs. All cheaper LCD computer monitors I looked at polarize vertically so the Berezin standard specs are good for these. But my 2 Apple 23" Cinema display and other Apple screens Ive looked at polarise at 45 degrees -- as do large Sony LCD televisions and presentation monitors. Now Berezin sell another sort of 3d glasses -- their 550S "Polarised theme park 0/90 for super 3d station" which are meant to be rotated 45 degrees relative to the others -- which mean they should be good for the second kind of display. But they seem to me to be identical in performance to the regular kind (I bought a few of both kinds) polarising wise - even tho they are cosmetically slightly different -- grey frames vs black eg. So I will have to get back to Berezin on this. But I will buy a couple of cheaper displays to build a box anyway and use the regular glasses with these.[/quote]
Well, first off I think you have it backwards, the glasses are polarized in this fashion: ////////\\\\\\\\\, as are most LCD displays, this means that it "looks" like it is a 45° angle when you come up against a 90° monitor (possibly for improved contrast on such a high-end display), whereas the majority of regular LCD's I have tried are all the standard 45° angle (do a search on Lumenlab.com forums, those crazy guys are making LCD projectors out of monitors and stripping the actual polarized layer to replace the polarizers with higher-quality/vertical oriented ones).
Hmm, you do however bring up a good point, will polarization work on these monitors? Probably not, as the mirror effect will simply left/right flip a vertical polarization.
[quote]Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
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I too am saddened by this, many (possibly all) video boards in LCD's today have modes which are un-scaled and can flip the picture left/right, but they go unused and I am left to deal with a stretched 1024x768 or 800x600 because the program doesn't support resolution changes, the computer lab has locked down the settings, or the hardware just can't pump the data to so many pixels at an acceptable frame-rate.
Upshot, if you are interested and can afford it, there are options to fix the problem in the firmware of most Displays, but you would have to find a person or company that was willing to modify the firmware for you. Alternatively some LCD hardware past the Scaler board has a flip function built in that could be activated with a simple switch or bridge on the circuit board.
Since this information isn't actually available to the general public (NDA agreements, mass-purchasing OEMs), and the software is lousy and expensive (10K+) to compile/assemble the firmware we are screwed unless someone knows a hardware hacker.
It does all boil down to software, it seems so easy to use hardware, until you hit the wall with the software not being open, or even supporting the options properly in the first place.
[b]To LimeyWarts[/b]:
I wouldn't build a box, just have a machine shop turn you out a stand that can support the monitors built from square tubing.
As long as the angle is correct and the base can support the overhanging weight, you won't need anything special. Use a couple of these with some flat head bolts to secure your monitors to the arm on each side of the bend: [url="http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082805&p_id=3402&seq=1&format=2&style="]http://www.monoprice.com/products/product....format=2&style=[/url]
Of course you will have to mount your mirror in some fashion, but it isn't as hard as it looks, perhaps if you find a person interested in the project with some tinkering skill they can help you with that part, since it is a small sheet of acrylic nothing special needs to be done, I have mine propped on the monitor and a small cardboard box (of course I also used 2x4 lumber and some plywood to construct the mount on a temporary basis), the welding shop could put some "wings" on it to allow a bit of channelled aluminium to be attached with the mirror slid into it, add an adjutment screw of course to allow the mirror to be fine-tuned.
To those who believe a box is the ultimate, you are looking at the ceiling assuming that you can even see around the top screen, so the only thing that matters is the brightness of the ceiling, of course if you simply add a bit of black cardboard to extend the borders of the top screen that will be a moot point too.
If you aren't gaming in the sun, or in a bay window, I think that you should be fine with the contrast, as the mirror will only allow light from directly above, and the only thing there is a monitor, unless you have a bright light on the floor causing glare on that top screen you should be fine. As for the direct viewed screen, if you don't have glare on that now, a 3D Planar setup won't either. There are only 3 surfaces to deal with (one aimed at the ground) I am reasonably sure glare isn't an issue, and I have two windows in my room, to my left and behind, if glare is a problem due to the position of the sun I just close the curtain I need to.
[quote name='glaxon' date='May 11 2007, 05:13 AM']A couple of things -- I have walked around looking at various monitors and displays with pair of polarizing glasses and all the lcd screens I have looked at are polarized. But there seem to be two main sorts. One has the polarization vertical, the other at 45 degrees when looked at with standard (Berezin 5501 say) 3d specs. All cheaper LCD computer monitors I looked at polarize vertically so the Berezin standard specs are good for these. But my 2 Apple 23" Cinema display and other Apple screens Ive looked at polarise at 45 degrees -- as do large Sony LCD televisions and presentation monitors. Now Berezin sell another sort of 3d glasses -- their 550S "Polarised theme park 0/90 for super 3d station" which are meant to be rotated 45 degrees relative to the others -- which mean they should be good for the second kind of display. But they seem to me to be identical in performance to the regular kind (I bought a few of both kinds) polarising wise - even tho they are cosmetically slightly different -- grey frames vs black eg. So I will have to get back to Berezin on this. But I will buy a couple of cheaper displays to build a box anyway and use the regular glasses with these.
Well, first off I think you have it backwards, the glasses are polarized in this fashion: ////////\\\\\\\\\, as are most LCD displays, this means that it "looks" like it is a 45° angle when you come up against a 90° monitor (possibly for improved contrast on such a high-end display), whereas the majority of regular LCD's I have tried are all the standard 45° angle (do a search on Lumenlab.com forums, those crazy guys are making LCD projectors out of monitors and stripping the actual polarized layer to replace the polarizers with higher-quality/vertical oriented ones).
Hmm, you do however bring up a good point, will polarization work on these monitors? Probably not, as the mirror effect will simply left/right flip a vertical polarization.
Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
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I too am saddened by this, many (possibly all) video boards in LCD's today have modes which are un-scaled and can flip the picture left/right, but they go unused and I am left to deal with a stretched 1024x768 or 800x600 because the program doesn't support resolution changes, the computer lab has locked down the settings, or the hardware just can't pump the data to so many pixels at an acceptable frame-rate.
Upshot, if you are interested and can afford it, there are options to fix the problem in the firmware of most Displays, but you would have to find a person or company that was willing to modify the firmware for you. Alternatively some LCD hardware past the Scaler board has a flip function built in that could be activated with a simple switch or bridge on the circuit board.
Since this information isn't actually available to the general public (NDA agreements, mass-purchasing OEMs), and the software is lousy and expensive (10K+) to compile/assemble the firmware we are screwed unless someone knows a hardware hacker.
It does all boil down to software, it seems so easy to use hardware, until you hit the wall with the software not being open, or even supporting the options properly in the first place.
To LimeyWarts:
I wouldn't build a box, just have a machine shop turn you out a stand that can support the monitors built from square tubing.
As long as the angle is correct and the base can support the overhanging weight, you won't need anything special. Use a couple of these with some flat head bolts to secure your monitors to the arm on each side of the bend: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product....format=2&style=
Of course you will have to mount your mirror in some fashion, but it isn't as hard as it looks, perhaps if you find a person interested in the project with some tinkering skill they can help you with that part, since it is a small sheet of acrylic nothing special needs to be done, I have mine propped on the monitor and a small cardboard box (of course I also used 2x4 lumber and some plywood to construct the mount on a temporary basis), the welding shop could put some "wings" on it to allow a bit of channelled aluminium to be attached with the mirror slid into it, add an adjutment screw of course to allow the mirror to be fine-tuned.
To those who believe a box is the ultimate, you are looking at the ceiling assuming that you can even see around the top screen, so the only thing that matters is the brightness of the ceiling, of course if you simply add a bit of black cardboard to extend the borders of the top screen that will be a moot point too.
If you aren't gaming in the sun, or in a bay window, I think that you should be fine with the contrast, as the mirror will only allow light from directly above, and the only thing there is a monitor, unless you have a bright light on the floor causing glare on that top screen you should be fine. As for the direct viewed screen, if you don't have glare on that now, a 3D Planar setup won't either. There are only 3 surfaces to deal with (one aimed at the ground) I am reasonably sure glare isn't an issue, and I have two windows in my room, to my left and behind, if glare is a problem due to the position of the sun I just close the curtain I need to.
I finished building an assembly based on two Chimei 22" displays and it works fine. It is a lot more comfortable for extended viewing than shutter glasses. But for fine detail work checking stereo content I think I will still use the shutter glasses (there is no possibility for misleading mirror alignment errors for instance). Also with the acrylic teleprompter mirrors there is a slight fine mottling (stress polarization patterns maybe) visible in the light areas of the scenes. I think I might get a glass seethru mirror instead.
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
I finished building an assembly based on two Chimei 22" displays and it works fine. It is a lot more comfortable for extended viewing than shutter glasses. But for fine detail work checking stereo content I think I will still use the shutter glasses (there is no possibility for misleading mirror alignment errors for instance). Also with the acrylic teleprompter mirrors there is a slight fine mottling (stress polarization patterns maybe) visible in the light areas of the scenes. I think I might get a glass seethru mirror instead.
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
[quote name='glaxon' date='May 16 2007, 05:30 PM']I finished building an assembly based on two Chimei 22" displays and it works fine. It is a lot more comfortable for extended viewing than shutter glasses. But for fine detail work checking stereo content I think I will still use the shutter glasses (there is no possibility for misleading mirror alignment errors for instance). Also with the acrylic teleprompter mirrors there is a slight fine mottling (stress polarization patterns maybe) visible in the light areas of the scenes. I think I might get a glass seethru mirror instead.
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
glaxxon
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:D :D I am glad someone was able to build one /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> .
Can you post some pictures? (barring that send me a PM and I can get you my email, I am curious to see how it looks)
I too am noticing that effect, on some material it isn't at all noticeable, such as 3Dmark 2000, set it to native LCD res and run the demo, don't let them force the res on you right after you click "demo".
But as you say the effect is nice for most things, and it does scale as big as you can get your monitors. Of course at a certain point a pair of externally polarized DLP projectors and a silver screen is more cost-effective.
I think that if you can find an optical grade glass it would make the effect much better, of course it is already just fine (how does it compare for contrast to your shutterglasses), and for most the prospect of a $200 piece of glass is a little out there. But if you spent the money to make the bracket and get 22" monitors it might be worth it.
Search for Teleprompter mirror and ask about to see if you can get some real glass ones, be sure to post if you find a source, just in case anyone might need it (even me someday ;)).
Check out this guy, maybe you can call and ask him if he has real glass [url="http://www.teleprompterglass.com/"]http://www.teleprompterglass.com/[/url]
He says he has an anti-glare on the backside, that might be helpful because I notice a minute ghost from the other surface of the glass.
[quote name='glaxon' date='May 16 2007, 05:30 PM']I finished building an assembly based on two Chimei 22" displays and it works fine. It is a lot more comfortable for extended viewing than shutter glasses. But for fine detail work checking stereo content I think I will still use the shutter glasses (there is no possibility for misleading mirror alignment errors for instance). Also with the acrylic teleprompter mirrors there is a slight fine mottling (stress polarization patterns maybe) visible in the light areas of the scenes. I think I might get a glass seethru mirror instead.
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
glaxxon
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:D :D I am glad someone was able to build one /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> .
Can you post some pictures? (barring that send me a PM and I can get you my email, I am curious to see how it looks)
I too am noticing that effect, on some material it isn't at all noticeable, such as 3Dmark 2000, set it to native LCD res and run the demo, don't let them force the res on you right after you click "demo".
But as you say the effect is nice for most things, and it does scale as big as you can get your monitors. Of course at a certain point a pair of externally polarized DLP projectors and a silver screen is more cost-effective.
I think that if you can find an optical grade glass it would make the effect much better, of course it is already just fine (how does it compare for contrast to your shutterglasses), and for most the prospect of a $200 piece of glass is a little out there. But if you spent the money to make the bracket and get 22" monitors it might be worth it.
Search for Teleprompter mirror and ask about to see if you can get some real glass ones, be sure to post if you find a source, just in case anyone might need it (even me someday ;)).
I found that link on the bottom of this page on teleprompters: [url="http://www.drs-digitrax.com/docs.htm"]http://www.drs-digitrax.com/docs.htm[/url]
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Unfortunately the largest would just do a 17" setup and it is $214, but I am sure you could call and ask about larger sizes, or keep hunting around for an optics company. Of course the effect is just fine as-is, but if you want more quality you have to pay (maybe this is why the Planar way is about $2,000 more than it should be, well probably profit is more the reason)
Edit: I am checking out this link: [url="http://www.coseti.org/beamsplit.htm"]http://www.coseti.org/beamsplit.htm[/url]
There is some nice stuff out there, but be prepared to pay for it ;), google plate beamsplitter 45° broadband should find you people, but sizes bigger than 15mm are hard to come by.
Unfortunately the largest would just do a 17" setup and it is $214, but I am sure you could call and ask about larger sizes, or keep hunting around for an optics company. Of course the effect is just fine as-is, but if you want more quality you have to pay (maybe this is why the Planar way is about $2,000 more than it should be, well probably profit is more the reason)
There is some nice stuff out there, but be prepared to pay for it ;), google plate beamsplitter 45° broadband should find you people, but sizes bigger than 15mm are hard to come by.
It might be smarter when looking for the ultimate display to use front-surface mirrors and then ghosting and image quality are the ultimate (ie impossible to occur since your eyes are looking 180° the opposite directions)
Using the setup I showed above you could make a "hmd" (helmet mounted display) that would be pretty large.
Or you could make a viewer like this:
[attachment=3388:attachment]
The downside is that you would need to flip the image, which CRT's allow for, and LCD's could in software theoretically, but likely not attainable (you could probably flip the LCD physically, but that is experimental, not recommended on expensive monitors under warranty)
LCD's aren't all that heavy, and you could have the helmet with a counter-balance too.
Of course what we really need are affordable high-res HMD's it might even be possible to DIY one with the new crop of 10" HD panels (1080p), but when those are available outside of a group buy from China is anyone's guess.
I would like to see a small high-res panel become more mainstream, perhaps the UMPC market will help that, although they are pretty much dead.
It is all trade-offs, maybe actual glass won't suffer from this pattern we are seeing and it would be fine.
Of course I haven't yet made glasses out of my 3" polarizing squares yet, that is something to consider too. Unlike the large sheet of glass, it should be pretty cheap to get some very high quality polarized material for making glasses with. And how high could the quality of the polarizers in these $3 glasses be anyway?
Just some thoughts on the tweak for the best setup.
It might be smarter when looking for the ultimate display to use front-surface mirrors and then ghosting and image quality are the ultimate (ie impossible to occur since your eyes are looking 180° the opposite directions)
Using the setup I showed above you could make a "hmd" (helmet mounted display) that would be pretty large.
Or you could make a viewer like this:
[attachment=3388:attachment]
The downside is that you would need to flip the image, which CRT's allow for, and LCD's could in software theoretically, but likely not attainable (you could probably flip the LCD physically, but that is experimental, not recommended on expensive monitors under warranty)
LCD's aren't all that heavy, and you could have the helmet with a counter-balance too.
Of course what we really need are affordable high-res HMD's it might even be possible to DIY one with the new crop of 10" HD panels (1080p), but when those are available outside of a group buy from China is anyone's guess.
I would like to see a small high-res panel become more mainstream, perhaps the UMPC market will help that, although they are pretty much dead.
It is all trade-offs, maybe actual glass won't suffer from this pattern we are seeing and it would be fine.
Of course I haven't yet made glasses out of my 3" polarizing squares yet, that is something to consider too. Unlike the large sheet of glass, it should be pretty cheap to get some very high quality polarized material for making glasses with. And how high could the quality of the polarizers in these $3 glasses be anyway?
Just some thoughts on the tweak for the best setup.
In regards to building a planar setup.. I just have one question. With a dual output 8800 gts would I need to have stereo enabled and bug-free through the classic control panel, or is one able to adjust the display on the horizontal monitor for the 'always-on' 3D effect. Right now with 158.22 Forceware and matching beta stereo drive I'm getting glitchy stereo so with the eMagin z800. If I could pull off an always-on 3D effect without using the beta stereo drivers I will be buying two 19" lcd's today (or as soon as someone can answer this, or as soon as a stable stereo driver is out for 158.22)
Thanks guys and gals! /wave.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wave:' />
In regards to building a planar setup.. I just have one question. With a dual output 8800 gts would I need to have stereo enabled and bug-free through the classic control panel, or is one able to adjust the display on the horizontal monitor for the 'always-on' 3D effect. Right now with 158.22 Forceware and matching beta stereo drive I'm getting glitchy stereo so with the eMagin z800. If I could pull off an always-on 3D effect without using the beta stereo drivers I will be buying two 19" lcd's today (or as soon as someone can answer this, or as soon as a stable stereo driver is out for 158.22)
Thanks guys and gals! /wave.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wave:' />
[quote name='limeywarts' date='May 18 2007, 06:57 AM']In regards to building a planar setup.. I just have one question. With a dual output 8800 gts would I need to have stereo enabled and bug-free through the classic control panel, or is one able to adjust the display on the horizontal monitor for the 'always-on' 3D effect. Right now with 158.22 Forceware and matching beta stereo drive I'm getting glitchy stereo so with the eMagin z800. If I could pull off an always-on 3D effect without using the beta stereo drivers I will be buying two 19" lcd's today (or as soon as someone can answer this, or as soon as a stable stereo driver is out for 158.22)
Thanks guys and gals! /wave.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wave:' />
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I am a little confused as to what you need to know. First, I think you are saying that you have an 8800GTS with a Head mounted eMagin z800 display.
Judging from the FAQ here: [url="http://www.3dvisor.com/faqs.php#TwoSource"][b]http://www.3dvisor.com/faqs.php#TwoSource[/b][/url] they use one VGA cable and "page-flipping" to send alternating images down the cable.
[b]A:[/b] I think that sucks, they are just screwing people because they can't give us true dual VGA.
[b]
B:[/b] It is more related to Shutter Glasses than any other form of 3D display method, this means that there is a sync signal.
So what you are saying is that your sync getting lost and the displays are switching eyes?
That is one of the big problems I had with the shutter glasses, they would lose sync with the flip signal and I would get the wrong eye.
"Always-On" 3D effect has me confused as well, it will only be functional in a 3D game with the nvidia stereo mode activated. It [i]Will[/i] be "always on" once activated in the sense that this method doesn't depend on any timing signals at all, each display is completely independant and run by its own video cable.
[b]Before you go buy more monitors, first do a quick check that dual-output 3D is working with your setup:[/b]
(if it is then I want an 8800 too ;) :P)
[b]Method one, two screens and a mirror:[/b]
use the instructions here and get a mirror (yes you can use a hand mirror) [url="http://www.stereo3dgallery.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm"]http://www.stereo3dgallery.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm[/url]
Basically just get two displays, they don't even have to be the same size, and plug them in. Set nview to clone, set 3D to "Planar", you should see two of your desktop. When you start a game you will see that one display is backwards (left to right) and one is normal, that means that it works.
To see it, put the monitors like the picture in that link shows, then look directly at the screen with the correct picture (you can read any text on it), put the mirror up over the other eye and then try to line up both pictures.
If you can get both pictures (the mirror and the regular) to line up you should see 3D.
You may be able to do this with a TV for one of the monitors, I was able to do it with a 15" and 17" LCDs, I just needed to put the 17" farther away until the picture was the same size as the 15" one when I lined them up. I did it with 2 regular 17" CRTs the first time.
[b]Method 2, one eye looks into the eMagin, the other eye looks at your Monitor:[/b]
If you have the emagin glasses you can look into one eye of them and then look at your regular monitor with the other eye to try it out. The instructions are a little different: "Clone mode" for nview is the same, but you must choose "dual VGA" for the stereo type, note that your monitor can be DVI, it really is "dual output". The downside is that you might not know if the 3D mode is activated until you see the 3D effect, with a mirrored setup one display is backwards as soon as the drivers activate.
[b]If you can't do any of the above[/b], then it isn't any use buying more screens just for this project. The Polarized method is the same, just the polarization is what blocks the other image from your sight.
[b]Driver is absolutely necessary, what else makes the image for each eye?[/b]
The stereo driver [b]MUST[/b] be installed and functional. Otherwise where is the stereo going to come from??
IF you have it and can check with two outputs above (your desktop monitor and your eMagin will work, you will only look in one eye of the eMagin and look at your desktop with the other eye), then the polarized mirror method will work.
[quote name='limeywarts' date='May 18 2007, 06:57 AM']In regards to building a planar setup.. I just have one question. With a dual output 8800 gts would I need to have stereo enabled and bug-free through the classic control panel, or is one able to adjust the display on the horizontal monitor for the 'always-on' 3D effect. Right now with 158.22 Forceware and matching beta stereo drive I'm getting glitchy stereo so with the eMagin z800. If I could pull off an always-on 3D effect without using the beta stereo drivers I will be buying two 19" lcd's today (or as soon as someone can answer this, or as soon as a stable stereo driver is out for 158.22)
Thanks guys and gals! /wave.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wave:' />
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I am a little confused as to what you need to know. First, I think you are saying that you have an 8800GTS with a Head mounted eMagin z800 display.
A: I think that sucks, they are just screwing people because they can't give us true dual VGA.
B: It is more related to Shutter Glasses than any other form of 3D display method, this means that there is a sync signal.
So what you are saying is that your sync getting lost and the displays are switching eyes?
That is one of the big problems I had with the shutter glasses, they would lose sync with the flip signal and I would get the wrong eye.
"Always-On" 3D effect has me confused as well, it will only be functional in a 3D game with the nvidia stereo mode activated. It Will be "always on" once activated in the sense that this method doesn't depend on any timing signals at all, each display is completely independant and run by its own video cable.
Before you go buy more monitors, first do a quick check that dual-output 3D is working with your setup:
Basically just get two displays, they don't even have to be the same size, and plug them in. Set nview to clone, set 3D to "Planar", you should see two of your desktop. When you start a game you will see that one display is backwards (left to right) and one is normal, that means that it works.
To see it, put the monitors like the picture in that link shows, then look directly at the screen with the correct picture (you can read any text on it), put the mirror up over the other eye and then try to line up both pictures.
If you can get both pictures (the mirror and the regular) to line up you should see 3D.
You may be able to do this with a TV for one of the monitors, I was able to do it with a 15" and 17" LCDs, I just needed to put the 17" farther away until the picture was the same size as the 15" one when I lined them up. I did it with 2 regular 17" CRTs the first time.
Method 2, one eye looks into the eMagin, the other eye looks at your Monitor:
If you have the emagin glasses you can look into one eye of them and then look at your regular monitor with the other eye to try it out. The instructions are a little different: "Clone mode" for nview is the same, but you must choose "dual VGA" for the stereo type, note that your monitor can be DVI, it really is "dual output". The downside is that you might not know if the 3D mode is activated until you see the 3D effect, with a mirrored setup one display is backwards as soon as the drivers activate.
If you can't do any of the above, then it isn't any use buying more screens just for this project. The Polarized method is the same, just the polarization is what blocks the other image from your sight.
Driver is absolutely necessary, what else makes the image for each eye?
The stereo driver MUST be installed and functional. Otherwise where is the stereo going to come from??
IF you have it and can check with two outputs above (your desktop monitor and your eMagin will work, you will only look in one eye of the eMagin and look at your desktop with the other eye), then the polarized mirror method will work.
Nubie, I finally got the materials together and built a test setup.
UGGH! It is not much better than a CRT!
I am still tweaking, but I get a LOT of ghosting. What happens is, the image passing through the acrylic from the rear monitor gets it's polarization warped somehow. Part of the problem may be that I have too big of a mirror. So the contrast ratio is not as good as just straight looking at the LCDs, wearing the polarized glasses.
And yeah, there's a mottled pattern on the acrylic that is irritating.
I agree that glass is the way to go. It probably doesn't rotate polarization like acrylic does, nor does it have that mottling pattern. Glass would also not sag in the middle.
On the good side, I can return the LCDs I bought and start shopping for glass. (since the acrylic seems unacceptable).
The $217 for the biggest one from Edmund optics..hmm. At least in that case I could use the cheapest 17" LCDs...
Nubie, I finally got the materials together and built a test setup.
UGGH! It is not much better than a CRT!
I am still tweaking, but I get a LOT of ghosting. What happens is, the image passing through the acrylic from the rear monitor gets it's polarization warped somehow. Part of the problem may be that I have too big of a mirror. So the contrast ratio is not as good as just straight looking at the LCDs, wearing the polarized glasses.
And yeah, there's a mottled pattern on the acrylic that is irritating.
I agree that glass is the way to go. It probably doesn't rotate polarization like acrylic does, nor does it have that mottling pattern. Glass would also not sag in the middle.
On the good side, I can return the LCDs I bought and start shopping for glass. (since the acrylic seems unacceptable).
The $217 for the biggest one from Edmund optics..hmm. At least in that case I could use the cheapest 17" LCDs...
FOUND IT! I called around locally. Damnit, I just wasted $130 on that crappy acrylic mirror! I was such an idiot!
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
FOUND IT! I called around locally. Damnit, I just wasted $130 on that crappy acrylic mirror! I was such an idiot!
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 21 2007, 07:44 AM']FOUND IT! I called around locally. Damnit, I just wasted $130 on that crappy acrylic mirror! I was such an idiot!
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
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I don't have the sagging problem, and I found that most of the "ghosting" I thought was ghosting is really an issue with games that use pixel shaders, the pixel shaders weren't a ghost, they where drawn on the wrong display.
Glass will sag, but not as bad as acrylic would, maybe if you had the acrylic in a frame it wouldn't have been that bad.
Aargh, me too, I spent $80 on my acrylic, and now some of the silver in the corner smudged off :( (my own fault, I taped it and then tore off the tape sideways).
I didn't check my local glass shop, how is the quality on your new glass?
[quote name='Habeed' date='May 21 2007, 07:44 AM']FOUND IT! I called around locally. Damnit, I just wasted $130 on that crappy acrylic mirror! I was such an idiot!
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
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I don't have the sagging problem, and I found that most of the "ghosting" I thought was ghosting is really an issue with games that use pixel shaders, the pixel shaders weren't a ghost, they where drawn on the wrong display.
Glass will sag, but not as bad as acrylic would, maybe if you had the acrylic in a frame it wouldn't have been that bad.
Aargh, me too, I spent $80 on my acrylic, and now some of the silver in the corner smudged off :( (my own fault, I taped it and then tore off the tape sideways).
I didn't check my local glass shop, how is the quality on your new glass?
I really want to try this out after running the drivers in Anaglyph mode (which was pretty cool).
My problem is, I can no longer buy the same model as my main monitor. TBH, stereo aside, I want to replace my secondary monitor anyway, as it;s pretty crap. Just how identical do the monitors need to be?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
I really want to try this out after running the drivers in Anaglyph mode (which was pretty cool).
My problem is, I can no longer buy the same model as my main monitor. TBH, stereo aside, I want to replace my secondary monitor anyway, as it;s pretty crap. Just how identical do the monitors need to be?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
AL1714 Specs
Brightness: 370 cd/m²
Contrast: 350:1
Avg Response: 14ms
Max Horizontal viewing angle: 160°
AL1711 Specs
Brightness: 250 cd/m²
Contrast: 450:1
Avg Response: 16ms
Max Horizontal viewing angle: 140°
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
[quote name='RitchieTheBrit' date='Jul 23 2007, 08:33 AM']My problem is, I can no longer buy the same model as my main monitor. TBH, stereo aside, I want to replace my secondary monitor anyway, as it;s pretty crap. Just how identical do the monitors need to be?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
[snip]
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
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Generally they just need to be the same size, or within 2", If you want to try plain or silvered glass from a local glass shop then it doesn't really matter, just get a 17" from anyone (they are all the same size for the most part) and try it out, the cheaper the better. For a long-term solution go to Circuit City or Best Buy and try out some monitors, the 19" is the size I would shoot for.
I need to check out the glass mirror situation, it seems a much smarter deal. Also I should investigate making some generic brackets for holding the LCD's and the mirror. Something to accommodate 15"-22" LCD's made of metal to hold them up properly, and some sort of elegant method of holding the mirror and adjusting it.
For experimentation purposes all you really need is a properly polarized monitor, if one is 15" simply pull the 17" one back until they appear the same size.
If you are serious about gaming in 3D, you won't be satisfied until you get a pair of either wide 17" or regular 19" monitors, a 7900 series card (512MB ram preferred), and a sheet of real glass for the mirror. I have an idea for a cheap metal stand, but I don't have money or motivation to prototype it right now.
If money is really an object, see if that monitor was made by anyone else, or branded as an OEM (dell, hp, gateway, etc.)
For experimentation purposes you can even cheat by holding a mirror up to one eye and using CRT monitors! or one CRT and one LCD.
The brightness will probably need adjusting no matter what, and your eyes can get used to large differences in brightness very quickly so you might choose not to adjust it (and it will not be as bad as anaglyph in any case).
Personally I want to find a small (14"-10") set of HD(1280 minimum) LCD's and attach them to a helmet with a mirror, one straight view, and the other off to the side and mirrored, becoming a killer HMD! Money of course being the obstacle :(.
[quote name='RitchieTheBrit' date='Jul 23 2007, 08:33 AM']My problem is, I can no longer buy the same model as my main monitor. TBH, stereo aside, I want to replace my secondary monitor anyway, as it;s pretty crap. Just how identical do the monitors need to be?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
[snip]
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
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Generally they just need to be the same size, or within 2", If you want to try plain or silvered glass from a local glass shop then it doesn't really matter, just get a 17" from anyone (they are all the same size for the most part) and try it out, the cheaper the better. For a long-term solution go to Circuit City or Best Buy and try out some monitors, the 19" is the size I would shoot for.
I need to check out the glass mirror situation, it seems a much smarter deal. Also I should investigate making some generic brackets for holding the LCD's and the mirror. Something to accommodate 15"-22" LCD's made of metal to hold them up properly, and some sort of elegant method of holding the mirror and adjusting it.
For experimentation purposes all you really need is a properly polarized monitor, if one is 15" simply pull the 17" one back until they appear the same size.
If you are serious about gaming in 3D, you won't be satisfied until you get a pair of either wide 17" or regular 19" monitors, a 7900 series card (512MB ram preferred), and a sheet of real glass for the mirror. I have an idea for a cheap metal stand, but I don't have money or motivation to prototype it right now.
If money is really an object, see if that monitor was made by anyone else, or branded as an OEM (dell, hp, gateway, etc.)
For experimentation purposes you can even cheat by holding a mirror up to one eye and using CRT monitors! or one CRT and one LCD.
The brightness will probably need adjusting no matter what, and your eyes can get used to large differences in brightness very quickly so you might choose not to adjust it (and it will not be as bad as anaglyph in any case).
Personally I want to find a small (14"-10") set of HD(1280 minimum) LCD's and attach them to a helmet with a mirror, one straight view, and the other off to the side and mirrored, becoming a killer HMD! Money of course being the obstacle :(.
Can someone please let me know where I'm going wrong here. My Polarizing glasses arrived in the post today, and I was disappointed to find that they didn't work correctly on my Dell 2005FPW monitors - each eye blocked half the light, but when tilted by 45 degrees, they blocked one eye totally and the other was clear. So, I cut apart the paper glasses and tilted each lens round by 45 degrees.
Now, when I'm looking at one LCD monitors, they work fine - one eye can't see the screen, one can. Great. But, after putting a pane of glass at the right angle, the reflected light is no different than the incident light! Let me use an example.
With glass not yet in place, left eye can see monitors, right is is black. With glass in place, left eye can see monitor 1 AND reflection of monitor 2, right is cannot see anything, (monitor 1, monitor 2 or reflection of monitor 2). why is the polarization not being flipped by 90 degrees?
Can someone please let me know where I'm going wrong here. My Polarizing glasses arrived in the post today, and I was disappointed to find that they didn't work correctly on my Dell 2005FPW monitors - each eye blocked half the light, but when tilted by 45 degrees, they blocked one eye totally and the other was clear. So, I cut apart the paper glasses and tilted each lens round by 45 degrees.
Now, when I'm looking at one LCD monitors, they work fine - one eye can't see the screen, one can. Great. But, after putting a pane of glass at the right angle, the reflected light is no different than the incident light! Let me use an example.
With glass not yet in place, left eye can see monitors, right is is black. With glass in place, left eye can see monitor 1 AND reflection of monitor 2, right is cannot see anything, (monitor 1, monitor 2 or reflection of monitor 2). why is the polarization not being flipped by 90 degrees?
Anyway I was thinking about hanging on to my 8800 gts and buying a 7900gt for a planar stereo monitor setup using 19" lcds but for the life of me I'm no carpenter to build the box to hold them.
Nvidia community I ask you this: is anyone creating plans for a planar mirror stereo monitor so even a dummy like me can build one? Basically I just would need a detailed instruction on how to build a box to hold to 19" lcd's. Yes this is someone who had 2 years of metal shop and 1 year of woodshop in highschool.. pathetic I know. The initial poster in this thread made the details a little confusing so I'm not sure exactly how all of this is set up. I did see one of these homemade ones on ebay going for almost $3,000.
Please nvidia please, give us 8800 stereo support and a [u]classic[/u] control panel with it instead of the new one!
Anyway I was thinking about hanging on to my 8800 gts and buying a 7900gt for a planar stereo monitor setup using 19" lcds but for the life of me I'm no carpenter to build the box to hold them.
Nvidia community I ask you this: is anyone creating plans for a planar mirror stereo monitor so even a dummy like me can build one? Basically I just would need a detailed instruction on how to build a box to hold to 19" lcd's. Yes this is someone who had 2 years of metal shop and 1 year of woodshop in highschool.. pathetic I know. The initial poster in this thread made the details a little confusing so I'm not sure exactly how all of this is set up. I did see one of these homemade ones on ebay going for almost $3,000.
Please nvidia please, give us 8800 stereo support and a classic control panel with it instead of the new one!
Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
Well, first off I think you have it backwards, the glasses are polarized in this fashion: ////////\\\\\\\\\, as are most LCD displays, this means that it "looks" like it is a 45° angle when you come up against a 90° monitor (possibly for improved contrast on such a high-end display), whereas the majority of regular LCD's I have tried are all the standard 45° angle (do a search on Lumenlab.com forums, those crazy guys are making LCD projectors out of monitors and stripping the actual polarized layer to replace the polarizers with higher-quality/vertical oriented ones).
Hmm, you do however bring up a good point, will polarization work on these monitors? Probably not, as the mirror effect will simply left/right flip a vertical polarization.
[quote]Now it is great that the Stereo driver supports mirror flipping of second displays but this only works in full screen game mode. There are a lot of stereoscopic multimedia presentation contexts where this is a big limitation. It is simple for instance in Director to make a stereo slide show -- with windows, text etc -- that runs across two screens. To make this work in this context all the graphics (and text too) must be flipped (for the right hand versions say) in Photoshop to work on the second screen -- which is doable but a hassle. CRTs can be flipped with a hardware mod, but not LCDs and nView doesnt support mirror flipping unfortunately.
Another piece of software I would like to use with a mirror box is Antics3d. This is a previz software used now sometimes for machinima -- and it has the makings of great stereo machinima tool. Two cameras can be linked and high quality viewing windows set up to run simultaneously in authoring mode. So you can do stereo animation previewing in cross-eyed viewing mode for instance and then render out the movies. It would be great to be able to do this in a mirror box (with a 4 screen setup say - 2 regular screens for authoring and another two (CRTs) in the mirror box for stereo previewing -- all one big desktop as far as the computer is concerned). At the moment the only way with Antics3d I can think of doing this is by building a CRT mirror box -- with one of the monitors hardware flipped -- and with large polarizing screens -- placed in front of each CRT monitor. If nView supported mirroring it would be so simple without all this complication! So how do you go about making feature requests for nView?
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I too am saddened by this, many (possibly all) video boards in LCD's today have modes which are un-scaled and can flip the picture left/right, but they go unused and I am left to deal with a stretched 1024x768 or 800x600 because the program doesn't support resolution changes, the computer lab has locked down the settings, or the hardware just can't pump the data to so many pixels at an acceptable frame-rate.
Upshot, if you are interested and can afford it, there are options to fix the problem in the firmware of most Displays, but you would have to find a person or company that was willing to modify the firmware for you. Alternatively some LCD hardware past the Scaler board has a flip function built in that could be activated with a simple switch or bridge on the circuit board.
Since this information isn't actually available to the general public (NDA agreements, mass-purchasing OEMs), and the software is lousy and expensive (10K+) to compile/assemble the firmware we are screwed unless someone knows a hardware hacker.
It does all boil down to software, it seems so easy to use hardware, until you hit the wall with the software not being open, or even supporting the options properly in the first place.
[b]To LimeyWarts[/b]:
I wouldn't build a box, just have a machine shop turn you out a stand that can support the monitors built from square tubing.
As long as the angle is correct and the base can support the overhanging weight, you won't need anything special. Use a couple of these with some flat head bolts to secure your monitors to the arm on each side of the bend: [url="http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082805&p_id=3402&seq=1&format=2&style="]http://www.monoprice.com/products/product....format=2&style=[/url]
Of course you will have to mount your mirror in some fashion, but it isn't as hard as it looks, perhaps if you find a person interested in the project with some tinkering skill they can help you with that part, since it is a small sheet of acrylic nothing special needs to be done, I have mine propped on the monitor and a small cardboard box (of course I also used 2x4 lumber and some plywood to construct the mount on a temporary basis), the welding shop could put some "wings" on it to allow a bit of channelled aluminium to be attached with the mirror slid into it, add an adjutment screw of course to allow the mirror to be fine-tuned.
To those who believe a box is the ultimate, you are looking at the ceiling assuming that you can even see around the top screen, so the only thing that matters is the brightness of the ceiling, of course if you simply add a bit of black cardboard to extend the borders of the top screen that will be a moot point too.
If you aren't gaming in the sun, or in a bay window, I think that you should be fine with the contrast, as the mirror will only allow light from directly above, and the only thing there is a monitor, unless you have a bright light on the floor causing glare on that top screen you should be fine. As for the direct viewed screen, if you don't have glare on that now, a 3D Planar setup won't either. There are only 3 surfaces to deal with (one aimed at the ground) I am reasonably sure glare isn't an issue, and I have two windows in my room, to my left and behind, if glare is a problem due to the position of the sun I just close the curtain I need to.
Well, first off I think you have it backwards, the glasses are polarized in this fashion: ////////\\\\\\\\\, as are most LCD displays, this means that it "looks" like it is a 45° angle when you come up against a 90° monitor (possibly for improved contrast on such a high-end display), whereas the majority of regular LCD's I have tried are all the standard 45° angle (do a search on Lumenlab.com forums, those crazy guys are making LCD projectors out of monitors and stripping the actual polarized layer to replace the polarizers with higher-quality/vertical oriented ones).
Hmm, you do however bring up a good point, will polarization work on these monitors? Probably not, as the mirror effect will simply left/right flip a vertical polarization.
I too am saddened by this, many (possibly all) video boards in LCD's today have modes which are un-scaled and can flip the picture left/right, but they go unused and I am left to deal with a stretched 1024x768 or 800x600 because the program doesn't support resolution changes, the computer lab has locked down the settings, or the hardware just can't pump the data to so many pixels at an acceptable frame-rate.
Upshot, if you are interested and can afford it, there are options to fix the problem in the firmware of most Displays, but you would have to find a person or company that was willing to modify the firmware for you. Alternatively some LCD hardware past the Scaler board has a flip function built in that could be activated with a simple switch or bridge on the circuit board.
Since this information isn't actually available to the general public (NDA agreements, mass-purchasing OEMs), and the software is lousy and expensive (10K+) to compile/assemble the firmware we are screwed unless someone knows a hardware hacker.
It does all boil down to software, it seems so easy to use hardware, until you hit the wall with the software not being open, or even supporting the options properly in the first place.
To LimeyWarts:
I wouldn't build a box, just have a machine shop turn you out a stand that can support the monitors built from square tubing.
As long as the angle is correct and the base can support the overhanging weight, you won't need anything special. Use a couple of these with some flat head bolts to secure your monitors to the arm on each side of the bend: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product....format=2&style=
Of course you will have to mount your mirror in some fashion, but it isn't as hard as it looks, perhaps if you find a person interested in the project with some tinkering skill they can help you with that part, since it is a small sheet of acrylic nothing special needs to be done, I have mine propped on the monitor and a small cardboard box (of course I also used 2x4 lumber and some plywood to construct the mount on a temporary basis), the welding shop could put some "wings" on it to allow a bit of channelled aluminium to be attached with the mirror slid into it, add an adjutment screw of course to allow the mirror to be fine-tuned.
To those who believe a box is the ultimate, you are looking at the ceiling assuming that you can even see around the top screen, so the only thing that matters is the brightness of the ceiling, of course if you simply add a bit of black cardboard to extend the borders of the top screen that will be a moot point too.
If you aren't gaming in the sun, or in a bay window, I think that you should be fine with the contrast, as the mirror will only allow light from directly above, and the only thing there is a monitor, unless you have a bright light on the floor causing glare on that top screen you should be fine. As for the direct viewed screen, if you don't have glare on that now, a 3D Planar setup won't either. There are only 3 surfaces to deal with (one aimed at the ground) I am reasonably sure glare isn't an issue, and I have two windows in my room, to my left and behind, if glare is a problem due to the position of the sun I just close the curtain I need to.
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
glaxxon
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
glaxxon
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
glaxxon
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:D :D I am glad someone was able to build one
Can you post some pictures? (barring that send me a PM and I can get you my email, I am curious to see how it looks)
I too am noticing that effect, on some material it isn't at all noticeable, such as 3Dmark 2000, set it to native LCD res and run the demo, don't let them force the res on you right after you click "demo".
But as you say the effect is nice for most things, and it does scale as big as you can get your monitors. Of course at a certain point a pair of externally polarized DLP projectors and a silver screen is more cost-effective.
I think that if you can find an optical grade glass it would make the effect much better, of course it is already just fine (how does it compare for contrast to your shutterglasses), and for most the prospect of a $200 piece of glass is a little out there. But if you spent the money to make the bracket and get 22" monitors it might be worth it.
Search for Teleprompter mirror and ask about to see if you can get some real glass ones, be sure to post if you find a source, just in case anyone might need it (even me someday ;)).
Check out this guy, maybe you can call and ask him if he has real glass [url="http://www.teleprompterglass.com/"]http://www.teleprompterglass.com/[/url]
He says he has an anti-glare on the backside, that might be helpful because I notice a minute ghost from the other surface of the glass.
But the concept is great ... it means giant stereo boxes can be built based on reliable, cool, lcd or plasma screens (with added polarizers for the latter)
glaxxon
:D :D I am glad someone was able to build one
Can you post some pictures? (barring that send me a PM and I can get you my email, I am curious to see how it looks)
I too am noticing that effect, on some material it isn't at all noticeable, such as 3Dmark 2000, set it to native LCD res and run the demo, don't let them force the res on you right after you click "demo".
But as you say the effect is nice for most things, and it does scale as big as you can get your monitors. Of course at a certain point a pair of externally polarized DLP projectors and a silver screen is more cost-effective.
I think that if you can find an optical grade glass it would make the effect much better, of course it is already just fine (how does it compare for contrast to your shutterglasses), and for most the prospect of a $200 piece of glass is a little out there. But if you spent the money to make the bracket and get 22" monitors it might be worth it.
Search for Teleprompter mirror and ask about to see if you can get some real glass ones, be sure to post if you find a source, just in case anyone might need it (even me someday ;)).
Check out this guy, maybe you can call and ask him if he has real glass http://www.teleprompterglass.com/
He says he has an anti-glare on the backside, that might be helpful because I notice a minute ghost from the other surface of the glass.
[url="http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productid=2035"]http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/...?productid=2035[/url]
I found that link on the bottom of this page on teleprompters: [url="http://www.drs-digitrax.com/docs.htm"]http://www.drs-digitrax.com/docs.htm[/url]
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Unfortunately the largest would just do a 17" setup and it is $214, but I am sure you could call and ask about larger sizes, or keep hunting around for an optics company. Of course the effect is just fine as-is, but if you want more quality you have to pay (maybe this is why the Planar way is about $2,000 more than it should be, well probably profit is more the reason)
Edit: I am checking out this link: [url="http://www.coseti.org/beamsplit.htm"]http://www.coseti.org/beamsplit.htm[/url]
There is some nice stuff out there, but be prepared to pay for it ;), google plate beamsplitter 45° broadband should find you people, but sizes bigger than 15mm are hard to come by.
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/...?productid=2035
I found that link on the bottom of this page on teleprompters: http://www.drs-digitrax.com/docs.htm
Unfortunately the largest would just do a 17" setup and it is $214, but I am sure you could call and ask about larger sizes, or keep hunting around for an optics company. Of course the effect is just fine as-is, but if you want more quality you have to pay (maybe this is why the Planar way is about $2,000 more than it should be, well probably profit is more the reason)
Edit: I am checking out this link: http://www.coseti.org/beamsplit.htm
There is some nice stuff out there, but be prepared to pay for it ;), google plate beamsplitter 45° broadband should find you people, but sizes bigger than 15mm are hard to come by.
Using the setup I showed above you could make a "hmd" (helmet mounted display) that would be pretty large.
Or you could make a viewer like this:
[attachment=3388:attachment]
The downside is that you would need to flip the image, which CRT's allow for, and LCD's could in software theoretically, but likely not attainable (you could probably flip the LCD physically, but that is experimental, not recommended on expensive monitors under warranty)
LCD's aren't all that heavy, and you could have the helmet with a counter-balance too.
Of course what we really need are affordable high-res HMD's it might even be possible to DIY one with the new crop of 10" HD panels (1080p), but when those are available outside of a group buy from China is anyone's guess.
I would like to see a small high-res panel become more mainstream, perhaps the UMPC market will help that, although they are pretty much dead.
It is all trade-offs, maybe actual glass won't suffer from this pattern we are seeing and it would be fine.
Of course I haven't yet made glasses out of my 3" polarizing squares yet, that is something to consider too. Unlike the large sheet of glass, it should be pretty cheap to get some very high quality polarized material for making glasses with. And how high could the quality of the polarizers in these $3 glasses be anyway?
Just some thoughts on the tweak for the best setup.
Using the setup I showed above you could make a "hmd" (helmet mounted display) that would be pretty large.
Or you could make a viewer like this:
[attachment=3388:attachment]
The downside is that you would need to flip the image, which CRT's allow for, and LCD's could in software theoretically, but likely not attainable (you could probably flip the LCD physically, but that is experimental, not recommended on expensive monitors under warranty)
LCD's aren't all that heavy, and you could have the helmet with a counter-balance too.
Of course what we really need are affordable high-res HMD's it might even be possible to DIY one with the new crop of 10" HD panels (1080p), but when those are available outside of a group buy from China is anyone's guess.
I would like to see a small high-res panel become more mainstream, perhaps the UMPC market will help that, although they are pretty much dead.
It is all trade-offs, maybe actual glass won't suffer from this pattern we are seeing and it would be fine.
Of course I haven't yet made glasses out of my 3" polarizing squares yet, that is something to consider too. Unlike the large sheet of glass, it should be pretty cheap to get some very high quality polarized material for making glasses with. And how high could the quality of the polarizers in these $3 glasses be anyway?
Just some thoughts on the tweak for the best setup.
Thanks guys and gals!
Thanks guys and gals!
Thanks guys and gals!
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I am a little confused as to what you need to know. First, I think you are saying that you have an 8800GTS with a Head mounted eMagin z800 display.
Judging from the FAQ here: [url="http://www.3dvisor.com/faqs.php#TwoSource"][b]http://www.3dvisor.com/faqs.php#TwoSource[/b][/url] they use one VGA cable and "page-flipping" to send alternating images down the cable.
[b]A:[/b] I think that sucks, they are just screwing people because they can't give us true dual VGA.
[b]
B:[/b] It is more related to Shutter Glasses than any other form of 3D display method, this means that there is a sync signal.
So what you are saying is that your sync getting lost and the displays are switching eyes?
That is one of the big problems I had with the shutter glasses, they would lose sync with the flip signal and I would get the wrong eye.
"Always-On" 3D effect has me confused as well, it will only be functional in a 3D game with the nvidia stereo mode activated. It [i]Will[/i] be "always on" once activated in the sense that this method doesn't depend on any timing signals at all, each display is completely independant and run by its own video cable.
[b]Before you go buy more monitors, first do a quick check that dual-output 3D is working with your setup:[/b]
(if it is then I want an 8800 too ;) :P)
[b]Method one, two screens and a mirror:[/b]
use the instructions here and get a mirror (yes you can use a hand mirror) [url="http://www.stereo3dgallery.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm"]http://www.stereo3dgallery.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm[/url]
Basically just get two displays, they don't even have to be the same size, and plug them in. Set nview to clone, set 3D to "Planar", you should see two of your desktop. When you start a game you will see that one display is backwards (left to right) and one is normal, that means that it works.
To see it, put the monitors like the picture in that link shows, then look directly at the screen with the correct picture (you can read any text on it), put the mirror up over the other eye and then try to line up both pictures.
If you can get both pictures (the mirror and the regular) to line up you should see 3D.
You may be able to do this with a TV for one of the monitors, I was able to do it with a 15" and 17" LCDs, I just needed to put the 17" farther away until the picture was the same size as the 15" one when I lined them up. I did it with 2 regular 17" CRTs the first time.
[b]Method 2, one eye looks into the eMagin, the other eye looks at your Monitor:[/b]
If you have the emagin glasses you can look into one eye of them and then look at your regular monitor with the other eye to try it out. The instructions are a little different: "Clone mode" for nview is the same, but you must choose "dual VGA" for the stereo type, note that your monitor can be DVI, it really is "dual output". The downside is that you might not know if the 3D mode is activated until you see the 3D effect, with a mirrored setup one display is backwards as soon as the drivers activate.
[b]If you can't do any of the above[/b], then it isn't any use buying more screens just for this project. The Polarized method is the same, just the polarization is what blocks the other image from your sight.
[b]Driver is absolutely necessary, what else makes the image for each eye?[/b]
The stereo driver [b]MUST[/b] be installed and functional. Otherwise where is the stereo going to come from??
IF you have it and can check with two outputs above (your desktop monitor and your eMagin will work, you will only look in one eye of the eMagin and look at your desktop with the other eye), then the polarized mirror method will work.
Thanks guys and gals!
I am a little confused as to what you need to know. First, I think you are saying that you have an 8800GTS with a Head mounted eMagin z800 display.
Judging from the FAQ here: http://www.3dvisor.com/faqs.php#TwoSource they use one VGA cable and "page-flipping" to send alternating images down the cable.
A: I think that sucks, they are just screwing people because they can't give us true dual VGA.
B: It is more related to Shutter Glasses than any other form of 3D display method, this means that there is a sync signal.
So what you are saying is that your sync getting lost and the displays are switching eyes?
That is one of the big problems I had with the shutter glasses, they would lose sync with the flip signal and I would get the wrong eye.
"Always-On" 3D effect has me confused as well, it will only be functional in a 3D game with the nvidia stereo mode activated. It Will be "always on" once activated in the sense that this method doesn't depend on any timing signals at all, each display is completely independant and run by its own video cable.
Before you go buy more monitors, first do a quick check that dual-output 3D is working with your setup:
(if it is then I want an 8800 too ;) :P)
Method one, two screens and a mirror:
use the instructions here and get a mirror (yes you can use a hand mirror) http://www.stereo3dgallery.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm
Basically just get two displays, they don't even have to be the same size, and plug them in. Set nview to clone, set 3D to "Planar", you should see two of your desktop. When you start a game you will see that one display is backwards (left to right) and one is normal, that means that it works.
To see it, put the monitors like the picture in that link shows, then look directly at the screen with the correct picture (you can read any text on it), put the mirror up over the other eye and then try to line up both pictures.
If you can get both pictures (the mirror and the regular) to line up you should see 3D.
You may be able to do this with a TV for one of the monitors, I was able to do it with a 15" and 17" LCDs, I just needed to put the 17" farther away until the picture was the same size as the 15" one when I lined them up. I did it with 2 regular 17" CRTs the first time.
Method 2, one eye looks into the eMagin, the other eye looks at your Monitor:
If you have the emagin glasses you can look into one eye of them and then look at your regular monitor with the other eye to try it out. The instructions are a little different: "Clone mode" for nview is the same, but you must choose "dual VGA" for the stereo type, note that your monitor can be DVI, it really is "dual output". The downside is that you might not know if the 3D mode is activated until you see the 3D effect, with a mirrored setup one display is backwards as soon as the drivers activate.
If you can't do any of the above, then it isn't any use buying more screens just for this project. The Polarized method is the same, just the polarization is what blocks the other image from your sight.
Driver is absolutely necessary, what else makes the image for each eye?
The stereo driver MUST be installed and functional. Otherwise where is the stereo going to come from??
IF you have it and can check with two outputs above (your desktop monitor and your eMagin will work, you will only look in one eye of the eMagin and look at your desktop with the other eye), then the polarized mirror method will work.
UGGH! It is not much better than a CRT!
I am still tweaking, but I get a LOT of ghosting. What happens is, the image passing through the acrylic from the rear monitor gets it's polarization warped somehow. Part of the problem may be that I have too big of a mirror. So the contrast ratio is not as good as just straight looking at the LCDs, wearing the polarized glasses.
And yeah, there's a mottled pattern on the acrylic that is irritating.
I agree that glass is the way to go. It probably doesn't rotate polarization like acrylic does, nor does it have that mottling pattern. Glass would also not sag in the middle.
On the good side, I can return the LCDs I bought and start shopping for glass. (since the acrylic seems unacceptable).
The $217 for the biggest one from Edmund optics..hmm. At least in that case I could use the cheapest 17" LCDs...
UGGH! It is not much better than a CRT!
I am still tweaking, but I get a LOT of ghosting. What happens is, the image passing through the acrylic from the rear monitor gets it's polarization warped somehow. Part of the problem may be that I have too big of a mirror. So the contrast ratio is not as good as just straight looking at the LCDs, wearing the polarized glasses.
And yeah, there's a mottled pattern on the acrylic that is irritating.
I agree that glass is the way to go. It probably doesn't rotate polarization like acrylic does, nor does it have that mottling pattern. Glass would also not sag in the middle.
On the good side, I can return the LCDs I bought and start shopping for glass. (since the acrylic seems unacceptable).
The $217 for the biggest one from Edmund optics..hmm. At least in that case I could use the cheapest 17" LCDs...
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
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I don't have the sagging problem, and I found that most of the "ghosting" I thought was ghosting is really an issue with games that use pixel shaders, the pixel shaders weren't a ghost, they where drawn on the wrong display.
Glass will sag, but not as bad as acrylic would, maybe if you had the acrylic in a frame it wouldn't have been that bad.
Aargh, me too, I spent $80 on my acrylic, and now some of the silver in the corner smudged off :( (my own fault, I taped it and then tore off the tape sideways).
I didn't check my local glass shop, how is the quality on your new glass?
I called a local glass and mirror shop, and for $16 a square foot they sell GLASS half silvered mirrors. Sure, sure, it probably isn't the grade of "optical" : but glass should not be sensitive to polarization like plastic is. It should also be much stiffer, as well as scratch resistant.
So for a HUGE mirror (22"x24") the bill was about $70. (I wanted to be able to handle up to a 26" or 30" display)
I don't have the sagging problem, and I found that most of the "ghosting" I thought was ghosting is really an issue with games that use pixel shaders, the pixel shaders weren't a ghost, they where drawn on the wrong display.
Glass will sag, but not as bad as acrylic would, maybe if you had the acrylic in a frame it wouldn't have been that bad.
Aargh, me too, I spent $80 on my acrylic, and now some of the silver in the corner smudged off :( (my own fault, I taped it and then tore off the tape sideways).
I didn't check my local glass shop, how is the quality on your new glass?
I really want to try this out after running the drivers in Anaglyph mode (which was pretty cool).
My problem is, I can no longer buy the same model as my main monitor. TBH, stereo aside, I want to replace my secondary monitor anyway, as it;s pretty crap. Just how identical do the monitors need to be?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
AL1714 Specs
Brightness: 370 cd/m²
Contrast: 350:1
Avg Response: 14ms
Max Horizontal viewing angle: 160°
AL1711 Specs
Brightness: 250 cd/m²
Contrast: 450:1
Avg Response: 16ms
Max Horizontal viewing angle: 140°
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
I really want to try this out after running the drivers in Anaglyph mode (which was pretty cool).
My problem is, I can no longer buy the same model as my main monitor. TBH, stereo aside, I want to replace my secondary monitor anyway, as it;s pretty crap. Just how identical do the monitors need to be?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
AL1714 Specs
Brightness: 370 cd/m²
Contrast: 350:1
Avg Response: 14ms
Max Horizontal viewing angle: 160°
AL1711 Specs
Brightness: 250 cd/m²
Contrast: 450:1
Avg Response: 16ms
Max Horizontal viewing angle: 140°
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
[snip]
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
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Generally they just need to be the same size, or within 2", If you want to try plain or silvered glass from a local glass shop then it doesn't really matter, just get a 17" from anyone (they are all the same size for the most part) and try it out, the cheaper the better. For a long-term solution go to Circuit City or Best Buy and try out some monitors, the 19" is the size I would shoot for.
I need to check out the glass mirror situation, it seems a much smarter deal. Also I should investigate making some generic brackets for holding the LCD's and the mirror. Something to accommodate 15"-22" LCD's made of metal to hold them up properly, and some sort of elegant method of holding the mirror and adjusting it.
For experimentation purposes all you really need is a properly polarized monitor, if one is 15" simply pull the 17" one back until they appear the same size.
If you are serious about gaming in 3D, you won't be satisfied until you get a pair of either wide 17" or regular 19" monitors, a 7900 series card (512MB ram preferred), and a sheet of real glass for the mirror. I have an idea for a cheap metal stand, but I don't have money or motivation to prototype it right now.
If money is really an object, see if that monitor was made by anyone else, or branded as an OEM (dell, hp, gateway, etc.)
For experimentation purposes you can even cheat by holding a mirror up to one eye and using CRT monitors! or one CRT and one LCD.
The brightness will probably need adjusting no matter what, and your eyes can get used to large differences in brightness very quickly so you might choose not to adjust it (and it will not be as bad as anaglyph in any case).
Personally I want to find a small (14"-10") set of HD(1280 minimum) LCD's and attach them to a helmet with a mirror, one straight view, and the other off to the side and mirrored, becoming a killer HMD! Money of course being the obstacle :(.
My primary display is an Acer AL1714 (great monitor), but it's not particularly common on eBay. There is a model on at the moment (the AL1711), but the specs are slightly different.
[snip]
Would I be able to get away with this, or would I be better off waiting until I can afford to replace my main monitor as well?
Even better, does anybody here have an Acer AL1714 they would be willing to part with?
Generally they just need to be the same size, or within 2", If you want to try plain or silvered glass from a local glass shop then it doesn't really matter, just get a 17" from anyone (they are all the same size for the most part) and try it out, the cheaper the better. For a long-term solution go to Circuit City or Best Buy and try out some monitors, the 19" is the size I would shoot for.
I need to check out the glass mirror situation, it seems a much smarter deal. Also I should investigate making some generic brackets for holding the LCD's and the mirror. Something to accommodate 15"-22" LCD's made of metal to hold them up properly, and some sort of elegant method of holding the mirror and adjusting it.
For experimentation purposes all you really need is a properly polarized monitor, if one is 15" simply pull the 17" one back until they appear the same size.
If you are serious about gaming in 3D, you won't be satisfied until you get a pair of either wide 17" or regular 19" monitors, a 7900 series card (512MB ram preferred), and a sheet of real glass for the mirror. I have an idea for a cheap metal stand, but I don't have money or motivation to prototype it right now.
If money is really an object, see if that monitor was made by anyone else, or branded as an OEM (dell, hp, gateway, etc.)
For experimentation purposes you can even cheat by holding a mirror up to one eye and using CRT monitors! or one CRT and one LCD.
The brightness will probably need adjusting no matter what, and your eyes can get used to large differences in brightness very quickly so you might choose not to adjust it (and it will not be as bad as anaglyph in any case).
Personally I want to find a small (14"-10") set of HD(1280 minimum) LCD's and attach them to a helmet with a mirror, one straight view, and the other off to the side and mirrored, becoming a killer HMD! Money of course being the obstacle :(.
Now, when I'm looking at one LCD monitors, they work fine - one eye can't see the screen, one can. Great. But, after putting a pane of glass at the right angle, the reflected light is no different than the incident light! Let me use an example.
With glass not yet in place, left eye can see monitors, right is is black. With glass in place, left eye can see monitor 1 AND reflection of monitor 2, right is cannot see anything, (monitor 1, monitor 2 or reflection of monitor 2). why is the polarization not being flipped by 90 degrees?
Now, when I'm looking at one LCD monitors, they work fine - one eye can't see the screen, one can. Great. But, after putting a pane of glass at the right angle, the reflected light is no different than the incident light! Let me use an example.
With glass not yet in place, left eye can see monitors, right is is black. With glass in place, left eye can see monitor 1 AND reflection of monitor 2, right is cannot see anything, (monitor 1, monitor 2 or reflection of monitor 2). why is the polarization not being flipped by 90 degrees?