Metal-O-Holic, personally, I have never noticed flicker at 120Hz, though I do notice 60FPS per eye quite lacking. I do wonder if it might be possible to overdrive the 2 passive projectors to work at 75/85/120Hz for 75/85/120fps per eye.
Indeed I do use a 2.0 gain screen. Anything I might be able to do to brighten my 3D experience would be welcome. Thank you for your kind offer for a demo - I might take you up on that if I ever visit your region!
Incidentally - can anyone recommend a good pair of DLP-link glasses which have the clearest lenses when switched off?
Metal-O-Holic, personally, I have never noticed flicker at 120Hz, though I do notice 60FPS per eye quite lacking. I do wonder if it might be possible to overdrive the 2 passive projectors to work at 75/85/120Hz for 75/85/120fps per eye.
Indeed I do use a 2.0 gain screen. Anything I might be able to do to brighten my 3D experience would be welcome. Thank you for your kind offer for a demo - I might take you up on that if I ever visit your region!
Incidentally - can anyone recommend a good pair of DLP-link glasses which have the clearest lenses when switched off?
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Thanks D-Man11,
Russell, and others (myself included), have been waiting for the .66"/.67" 120Hz input Active 3D compatible projectors using RGBRGB wheels.
You have always been able to quickly parse and maintain a super-archive of information in your brain. Us mere mortals can barely remember what we had for breakfast!
If you happen to find any info on such on your travels, we would very much appreciate it if you might share it with us :)
Russell, and others (myself included), have been waiting for the .66"/.67" 120Hz input Active 3D compatible projectors using RGBRGB wheels.
You have always been able to quickly parse and maintain a super-archive of information in your brain. Us mere mortals can barely remember what we had for breakfast!
If you happen to find any info on such on your travels, we would very much appreciate it if you might share it with us :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I'm not in the market currently, so my research will be limited.
But for those that do not know....
HDMI 2.1 was finalized back in November
https://wccftech.com/hdmi-2-1-finalized-10k-uncompressed-8k/
Also 4K broadcasting was outlined, we will not see it anytime soon, but it's good to know it's coming and that they are considering high refresh rates
https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/08/ultra-hd-forum-4k-tv-next-generation-guidelines/
Everyone should cross their fingers that AV1 is adopted
https://hdguru.com/av1-codec-released-to-rival-hevc-in-4k-streaming-video-ecosystem/
Also watch for display makers to adopt USB-C as a video input/ jack of all trades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
https://displaylag.com/lgs-32ud99-is-a-4k-ips-monitor-with-hdr10-usb-c/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2686892/reversible-usb-type-c-wonder-cable-will-deliver-displayport-audio-and-video-too.html
https://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mode-for-usb-typec-announced
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="Metal-O-Holic"]I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.[/quote]
Lies, Lies, all Lies :P
Active shutter glasses provide excellent extinction and the flashing is not an issue for 99.999% of the world population.
The biggest benefit of Dual Projection, is the ability to use a 2D projector. Secondly,(which goes hand and hand with the first) is the ability to have more available bandwidth that than a single video connection. Thirdly, the glasses are much cheaper, especially when you are talking theater sized crowds
The huge drawback, is very limited support/requires demuxing hardware in most cases, projector placement in relation to hot spotting, image alignment, needs a special screen if using anything other than Omega Filters, is not very portable/moveable, crosstalk/extinction, twice the cost per frame viewed (electricity/bulb life/PJ life).
[/quote]
I did not say in general. But Atleast for me flashing is. And that is one of those Things you don’t know
Untill you see for your self. And the crosstalk is not an issue, Atleast in my setup there is only rare occasions where the crosstalk could be potentially issue, though inntheory is could be. Offcourse there is benefits also in active, but the benefits Are also the reason why it is used on generally to produce 3d image.
And i gotta Clarify, i don’t mean actual flicker of signal but the image, it fpropably due the fact there is blank frames, or it it the combo of those as i don’t have any problems with 120hz in 2D
Metal-O-Holic said:I would not say ghosting is at all an issue with proper screen. i would say the active flashing is ten times more problematic than ghosting on dual projecting.
Lies, Lies, all Lies :P
Active shutter glasses provide excellent extinction and the flashing is not an issue for 99.999% of the world population.
The biggest benefit of Dual Projection, is the ability to use a 2D projector. Secondly,(which goes hand and hand with the first) is the ability to have more available bandwidth that than a single video connection. Thirdly, the glasses are much cheaper, especially when you are talking theater sized crowds
The huge drawback, is very limited support/requires demuxing hardware in most cases, projector placement in relation to hot spotting, image alignment, needs a special screen if using anything other than Omega Filters, is not very portable/moveable, crosstalk/extinction, twice the cost per frame viewed (electricity/bulb life/PJ life).
I did not say in general. But Atleast for me flashing is. And that is one of those Things you don’t know
Untill you see for your self. And the crosstalk is not an issue, Atleast in my setup there is only rare occasions where the crosstalk could be potentially issue, though inntheory is could be. Offcourse there is benefits also in active, but the benefits Are also the reason why it is used on generally to produce 3d image.
And i gotta Clarify, i don’t mean actual flicker of signal but the image, it fpropably due the fact there is blank frames, or it it the combo of those as i don’t have any problems with 120hz in 2D
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
It is very well documented that 120Hz active shutter is a compromise.
It's enough for people being able to watch a show, but it's not enough to completely remove the flicker effect.
There are plenty of testimonies of professional reviewers and 3D fans who bought both active and passive TVs and who report clearly feeling the difference and prefer the passive TV for it's lock of flicker.
And then if you want personal anecdotes, every single person who came to my hom watch a 3D on my system reports exactly the same thing : "amazing ! no flicker ! it's completely different from the local theatre !" (RealD Theatre)
It is very well documented that 120Hz active shutter is a compromise.
It's enough for people being able to watch a show, but it's not enough to completely remove the flicker effect.
There are plenty of testimonies of professional reviewers and 3D fans who bought both active and passive TVs and who report clearly feeling the difference and prefer the passive TV for it's lock of flicker.
And then if you want personal anecdotes, every single person who came to my hom watch a 3D on my system reports exactly the same thing : "amazing ! no flicker ! it's completely different from the local theatre !" (RealD Theatre)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
[quote="BlackSharkfr"]It is very well documented that 120Hz active shutter is a compromise.
It's enough for people being able to watch a show, but it's not enough to completely remove the flicker effect.
There are plenty of testimonies of professional reviewers and 3D fans who bought both active and passive TVs and who report clearly feeling the difference and prefer the passive TV for it's lock of flicker.
And then if you want personal anecdotes, every single person who came to my hom watch a 3D on my system reports exactly the same thing : "amazing ! no flicker ! it's completely different from the local theatre !" (RealD Theatre)[/quote]
I think you hit the golden note with the word "feeling"
The feeling of comfort in eyes i would add.
I would say how do you know music you are listening is poor compressed stream, if that is how you have always been listening ?
BlackSharkfr said:It is very well documented that 120Hz active shutter is a compromise.
It's enough for people being able to watch a show, but it's not enough to completely remove the flicker effect.
There are plenty of testimonies of professional reviewers and 3D fans who bought both active and passive TVs and who report clearly feeling the difference and prefer the passive TV for it's lock of flicker.
And then if you want personal anecdotes, every single person who came to my hom watch a 3D on my system reports exactly the same thing : "amazing ! no flicker ! it's completely different from the local theatre !" (RealD Theatre)
I think you hit the golden note with the word "feeling"
The feeling of comfort in eyes i would add.
I would say how do you know music you are listening is poor compressed stream, if that is how you have always been listening ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
[quote="Metal-O-Holic"]I would say how do you know music you are listening is poor compressed stream, if that is how you have always been listening ?[/quote]
Ahhhh, you must be one of those MQA believers, tis OK, I won't judge :P
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="Metal-O-Holic"]I would say how do you know music you are listening is poor compressed stream, if that is how you have always been listening ?[/quote]
Ahhhh, you must be one of those MQA believers, tis OK, I won't judge :P[/quote]
My English isnt good enought to know what is MQA ?
I can shurely ask, D-Man11 you shurely have experience dual projector passive 3d ?
Metal-O-Holic said:I would say how do you know music you are listening is poor compressed stream, if that is how you have always been listening ?
Ahhhh, you must be one of those MQA believers, tis OK, I won't judge :P
My English isnt good enought to know what is MQA ?
I can shurely ask, D-Man11 you shurely have experience dual projector passive 3d ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
MQA is the new audio format, that is all the rage. There seems to be two camps, those that are cultish followers and those that are skeptic disbelievers.
I figured you would know about it, the post was meant as a harmless jest, but because it's the internet and you do not know what MQA is, I can understand why you didn't get a laugh out of it :)
Sooo, let me tell you what it is. MQA + Master Quality Authenticated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Quality_Authenticated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i69U69pqu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erMFQt5_HoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r_VRxcwODI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl3LDwQ1pVs
If you watch all of these videos, you'll probably feel like you watched 48 Hours or Date Line :P
But to fully understand, watch them all completely.
MQA is the new audio format, that is all the rage. There seems to be two camps, those that are cultish followers and those that are skeptic disbelievers.
I figured you would know about it, the post was meant as a harmless jest, but because it's the internet and you do not know what MQA is, I can understand why you didn't get a laugh out of it :)
Schiit has outright said that they have no intention of integrating MAQ into their DACs
http://www.schiit.com/news/news/why-we-wont-be-supporting-mqa
They also reiterated this in a recent interview.
Here's a DAC from Meridian
https://www.amazon.com/Meridian-FBA_Explorer-2-Explorer2-USB/dp/B00Q6VQGS2
https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/products/dacs/usb-dacs/explorer/
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=3885
[quote="rustyk21"]@D-man, I don't think we'll see 3d bluray at 4k. As far as I'm aware, every single version of these 4k DLP projectors enables silent mode/disables XPR to work at 120Hz, so there is no pixel shifting and the image is at the native DMD resolution.[/quote]
It's by no means a far stretch to think that at least the .66 could support Checkerboard 3D.
It already supports Checkerboard in 2D. A Full 4K frame is sent to the projector, it is then demuxed into two sub frames that are interlaced in Checkerboard to complete the original full image that was sent. It is running at 120Hz interlaced when doing this. These are 2160i displays, not 2160P.
So 60 full Images are sent in 60 Frames and 120 half Images are shown in 120 Frames that are presented to represent the original 60 Frames.
In 3D 120 Images would be sent in 60 Frames. Because they are half images, two images can fit in 1 Frame.
So 60 Frames containing 120 half images sent in 3D = 60 per eye.
[quote="DLP(r) Call Center"]
"Thank you for your interest in DLP(r) Link.
You are correct that DLP 3D Ready projectors do not support the DLP HDTV
checkerboard input as the display devices used in our projectors and our
HDTVs are made differently. The DLP 3D Ready projectors do, however,
support 120 Hz or 60 Hz inputs as well as 120 Hz output frequencies.
The native format for the DLP 3D Ready projectors is frame sequential 3D
(as opposed to checkerboard, side-by-side, or over/under).
Sincerely,
DLP(r) Call Center
Texas Instruments
888-357-2984
http://www.dlp.com"
Quoted from
[url]https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12091#p54266[/url][/quote]
This was true for all HDMI 1.3 projectors.
Also HDMI 1.4 projectors for whatever reason, did not support Checkerboard until LG did with the PF1000U
[quote="D-Man11"]Hmmm. no comments on what is shown at 11:38 in that video?
This is huge, 3-7 years too late in coming. But potentially huge going forward for 2K and 4K.
This is the "first" projector to support Checkerboard as an input format!![/quote]
If you do not understand what the Checkerboard format is, watch the Flash video (FLV) I uploaded from Mitsubishi
rustyk21 said:@D-man, I don't think we'll see 3d bluray at 4k. As far as I'm aware, every single version of these 4k DLP projectors enables silent mode/disables XPR to work at 120Hz, so there is no pixel shifting and the image is at the native DMD resolution.
It's by no means a far stretch to think that at least the .66 could support Checkerboard 3D.
It already supports Checkerboard in 2D. A Full 4K frame is sent to the projector, it is then demuxed into two sub frames that are interlaced in Checkerboard to complete the original full image that was sent. It is running at 120Hz interlaced when doing this. These are 2160i displays, not 2160P.
So 60 full Images are sent in 60 Frames and 120 half Images are shown in 120 Frames that are presented to represent the original 60 Frames.
In 3D 120 Images would be sent in 60 Frames. Because they are half images, two images can fit in 1 Frame.
So 60 Frames containing 120 half images sent in 3D = 60 per eye.
DLP(r) Call Center said:
"Thank you for your interest in DLP(r) Link.
You are correct that DLP 3D Ready projectors do not support the DLP HDTV
checkerboard input as the display devices used in our projectors and our
HDTVs are made differently. The DLP 3D Ready projectors do, however,
support 120 Hz or 60 Hz inputs as well as 120 Hz output frequencies.
The native format for the DLP 3D Ready projectors is frame sequential 3D
(as opposed to checkerboard, side-by-side, or over/under).
Sincerely,
Indeed I do use a 2.0 gain screen. Anything I might be able to do to brighten my 3D experience would be welcome. Thank you for your kind offer for a demo - I might take you up on that if I ever visit your region!
Incidentally - can anyone recommend a good pair of DLP-link glasses which have the clearest lenses when switched off?
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Russell, and others (myself included), have been waiting for the .66"/.67" 120Hz input Active 3D compatible projectors using RGBRGB wheels.
You have always been able to quickly parse and maintain a super-archive of information in your brain. Us mere mortals can barely remember what we had for breakfast!
If you happen to find any info on such on your travels, we would very much appreciate it if you might share it with us :)
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
But for those that do not know....
HDMI 2.1 was finalized back in November
https://wccftech.com/hdmi-2-1-finalized-10k-uncompressed-8k/
Also 4K broadcasting was outlined, we will not see it anytime soon, but it's good to know it's coming and that they are considering high refresh rates
https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/08/ultra-hd-forum-4k-tv-next-generation-guidelines/
Everyone should cross their fingers that AV1 is adopted
https://hdguru.com/av1-codec-released-to-rival-hevc-in-4k-streaming-video-ecosystem/
Also watch for display makers to adopt USB-C as a video input/ jack of all trades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
https://displaylag.com/lgs-32ud99-is-a-4k-ips-monitor-with-hdr10-usb-c/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2686892/reversible-usb-type-c-wonder-cable-will-deliver-displayport-audio-and-video-too.html
https://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mode-for-usb-typec-announced
I did not say in general. But Atleast for me flashing is. And that is one of those Things you don’t know
Untill you see for your self. And the crosstalk is not an issue, Atleast in my setup there is only rare occasions where the crosstalk could be potentially issue, though inntheory is could be. Offcourse there is benefits also in active, but the benefits Are also the reason why it is used on generally to produce 3d image.
And i gotta Clarify, i don’t mean actual flicker of signal but the image, it fpropably due the fact there is blank frames, or it it the combo of those as i don’t have any problems with 120hz in 2D
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
It's enough for people being able to watch a show, but it's not enough to completely remove the flicker effect.
There are plenty of testimonies of professional reviewers and 3D fans who bought both active and passive TVs and who report clearly feeling the difference and prefer the passive TV for it's lock of flicker.
And then if you want personal anecdotes, every single person who came to my hom watch a 3D on my system reports exactly the same thing : "amazing ! no flicker ! it's completely different from the local theatre !" (RealD Theatre)
Passive 3D forever
110" DIY dual-projection system
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (1080p) + Linear Polarizers (SPAR)
XtremScreen Daylight 2.0
VNS Geobox501 signal converter
I think you hit the golden note with the word "feeling"
The feeling of comfort in eyes i would add.
I would say how do you know music you are listening is poor compressed stream, if that is how you have always been listening ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
Ahhhh, you must be one of those MQA believers, tis OK, I won't judge :P
My English isnt good enought to know what is MQA ?
I can shurely ask, D-Man11 you shurely have experience dual projector passive 3d ?
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@stock
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele
I figured you would know about it, the post was meant as a harmless jest, but because it's the internet and you do not know what MQA is, I can understand why you didn't get a laugh out of it :)
Sooo, let me tell you what it is. MQA + Master Quality Authenticated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Quality_Authenticated
If you watch all of these videos, you'll probably feel like you watched 48 Hours or Date Line :P
But to fully understand, watch them all completely.
http://www.schiit.com/news/news/why-we-wont-be-supporting-mqa
They also reiterated this in a recent interview.
Here's a DAC from Meridian
https://www.amazon.com/Meridian-FBA_Explorer-2-Explorer2-USB/dp/B00Q6VQGS2
https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/products/dacs/usb-dacs/explorer/
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=3885
It's by no means a far stretch to think that at least the .66 could support Checkerboard 3D.
It already supports Checkerboard in 2D. A Full 4K frame is sent to the projector, it is then demuxed into two sub frames that are interlaced in Checkerboard to complete the original full image that was sent. It is running at 120Hz interlaced when doing this. These are 2160i displays, not 2160P.
So 60 full Images are sent in 60 Frames and 120 half Images are shown in 120 Frames that are presented to represent the original 60 Frames.
In 3D 120 Images would be sent in 60 Frames. Because they are half images, two images can fit in 1 Frame.
So 60 Frames containing 120 half images sent in 3D = 60 per eye.
This was true for all HDMI 1.3 projectors.
Also HDMI 1.4 projectors for whatever reason, did not support Checkerboard until LG did with the PF1000U
If you do not understand what the Checkerboard format is, watch the Flash video (FLV) I uploaded from Mitsubishi