Future of 3D Vision Support (Official announcement from NVIDIA)
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One thing I keep seeing mentioned is people talking about paying per fix, and back when DHR started monetizing his fixes it struck a bad note with me mainly for the fact that bo3b and DSS had freely poured their time into developing 3DMigoto, the tool which is the backbone of all of our (DX11) fixes, without demanding a single penny for their efforts. Although fixing games does take time and talent, IMHO those pale to compare against that which was put into the tool, so where does any shaderhacker get off demanding payment for their work while utilizing something that was given so freely. Anyways, I'm not bringing this up to start up old arguments or whatever, I'm mentioning this because I now see this as an opportunity. When I see people now mentioning about paying for fixes as part of the payment model I was subconsciously assuming that meant payment to the shaderhacker, since that's where most of the donations have been going up until this point, but now instead I'm thinking it could be a split payment between the shaderhacker and those that are putting in the work for the driver/tool (or, if the shaderhacker was so inclined, they might even opt out of receiving their share). I imagine I'm probably not the first to have thought of this, but figured I'd mention it.
One thing I keep seeing mentioned is people talking about paying per fix, and back when DHR started monetizing his fixes it struck a bad note with me mainly for the fact that bo3b and DSS had freely poured their time into developing 3DMigoto, the tool which is the backbone of all of our (DX11) fixes, without demanding a single penny for their efforts. Although fixing games does take time and talent, IMHO those pale to compare against that which was put into the tool, so where does any shaderhacker get off demanding payment for their work while utilizing something that was given so freely.

Anyways, I'm not bringing this up to start up old arguments or whatever, I'm mentioning this because I now see this as an opportunity. When I see people now mentioning about paying for fixes as part of the payment model I was subconsciously assuming that meant payment to the shaderhacker, since that's where most of the donations have been going up until this point, but now instead I'm thinking it could be a split payment between the shaderhacker and those that are putting in the work for the driver/tool (or, if the shaderhacker was so inclined, they might even opt out of receiving their share). I imagine I'm probably not the first to have thought of this, but figured I'd mention it.

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Posted 04/04/2019 11:22 AM   
+1 If fixes are paid, it should be split between the shaderhacker & the 3D software developers. Especially if the 3D software has a "one time payment". This will help 3D software developers to have some incomes after the purchases.
+1

If fixes are paid, it should be split between the shaderhacker & the 3D software developers.
Especially if the 3D software has a "one time payment".
This will help 3D software developers to have some incomes after the purchases.

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Posted 04/04/2019 11:31 AM   
[quote="DJ-RK"]I'm thinking it could be a split payment between the shaderhacker and those that are putting in the work for the driver/tool.[/quote] Yes, definitely this.
DJ-RK said:I'm thinking it could be a split payment between the shaderhacker and those that are putting in the work for the driver/tool.


Yes, definitely this.

Posted 04/04/2019 11:58 AM   
I have in the past donated to certain shaderhackers and DJ-RK has a valid point I never donated to the user's who made the tool it's so easy to forget without 3Dmigoto there would be no 3D games. I feel like s* now.
I have in the past donated to certain shaderhackers and DJ-RK has a valid point I never donated to the user's who made the tool it's so easy to forget without 3Dmigoto there would be no 3D games.


I feel like s* now.

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

Posted 04/04/2019 12:09 PM   
Without the wrappers I would just be an annoyed ex-3D user. My life could be pretty different without my 3D obsession :p.
Without the wrappers I would just be an annoyed ex-3D user. My life could be pretty different without my 3D obsession :p.

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Posted 04/04/2019 01:16 PM   
I think TriDef tied the license to hardware configuration, like Microsoft does with their OEM version. Something like this would be needed or else it would be shared on YouTube. I'd recommend not having a trial period or it could simply be reset endlessly. A two week money back guarantee perhaps, with some type of revocation? The fixes should be handled similarly. Otherwise, what's to stop people from openly sharing them or monetizing these themselves on obscure websites?? I've seen current fixes hosted on other sites. Like this for Android https://duniacodeapk.blogspot.com/ I checked one fix on that site, the Patreon Link seemed to be legit and go to the page for DSS. But I'm not really sure. Perhaps it might even be a malware site, who knows? I'm imagine that there are others that will never show up in my search results because they are in other countries/languages.
I think TriDef tied the license to hardware configuration, like Microsoft does with their OEM version. Something like this would be needed or else it would be shared on YouTube. I'd recommend not having a trial period or it could simply be reset endlessly. A two week money back guarantee perhaps, with some type of revocation?

The fixes should be handled similarly. Otherwise, what's to stop people from openly sharing them or monetizing these themselves on obscure websites??

I've seen current fixes hosted on other sites. Like this for Android

https://duniacodeapk.blogspot.com/


I checked one fix on that site, the Patreon Link seemed to be legit and go to the page for DSS. But I'm not really sure. Perhaps it might even be a malware site, who knows? I'm imagine that there are others that will never show up in my search results because they are in other countries/languages.

Posted 04/04/2019 03:32 PM   
I don't think 3D Vision support is going anywhere anytime soon. Sounds to me more like future development of drivers are going to slow down and we'll see more branches. Lately they've been monetizing updated drivers with the official release of AAA games and they probably realize that wasn't the wisest decision. Updating drivers and having to update drivers is a serious issue not something to be turned into an advertisement for a new game. Aside from some latest new feature, which could even be something like a new version of 3D vision I doubt anyone will be forced to go to a driver that doesn't support 3D vision. I'd be willing to bet that even new generation cards, like those beyond the 20XX series will be able to utilize the 3D vision supported branch. In the past they've been aggressive about pushing new drivers and thats what has everyone concerned. But they never specifically said that 3D Vision would no longer be supported, they just said that 3D vision users will stay on the 419 branch.
I don't think 3D Vision support is going anywhere anytime soon. Sounds to me more like future development of drivers are going to slow down and we'll see more branches. Lately they've been monetizing updated drivers with the official release of AAA games and they probably realize that wasn't the wisest decision.

Updating drivers and having to update drivers is a serious issue not something to be turned into an advertisement for a new game.

Aside from some latest new feature, which could even be something like a new version of 3D vision I doubt anyone will be forced to go to a driver that doesn't support 3D vision. I'd be willing to bet that even new generation cards, like those beyond the 20XX series will be able to utilize the 3D vision supported branch.

In the past they've been aggressive about pushing new drivers and thats what has everyone concerned. But they never specifically said that 3D Vision would no longer be supported, they just said that 3D vision users will stay on the 419 branch.

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Posted 04/05/2019 01:38 AM   
Great news if we need to stick with old Windows 10. [i]"The company announced today that rather than automatically updating compatible devices to the next major version of Windows 10, the Windows 10 May 2019 Update, it will give people the option to install the update or delay it until they’re confident it’s safe to use."[/i] [url]https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-windows-10-may-2019-update-release,38997.html[/url]
Great news if we need to stick with old Windows 10.

"The company announced today that rather than automatically updating compatible devices to the next major version of Windows 10, the Windows 10 May 2019 Update, it will give people the option to install the update or delay it until they’re confident it’s safe to use."

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-windows-10-may-2019-update-release,38997.html

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Posted 04/05/2019 11:59 AM   
As a tool developer for 3D Vision and the creator of the third DX11 wrapper I have solved difficult problems having limited knowledge going in. Progress is at times slow and you take things one step at a time. I'm writing this because I'm a significant tool developer for 3Dmigoto even though my efforts only lasted for a few years and DSS keeps trying to make my contribution look like it was nothing. From my perspective it was not a team effort. bo3b talked to me in the beginning and but very quickly we started working on different things. I have had minimal contact with DSS. It is tough to collaborate at all with that time zone difference and with me practically not using git for development. My DX9-12 wrapper prototypes has only been seriously used for DX11 games before 3Dmigoto could run on Windows 8. My main contribution to 3Dmigoto is the assembler which was heavily reversed engineered with almost no documentation going in. The hash function to enable assembler at all was step by step reverse engineered using IDA Pro and converted to x86 assembler over to C. This was required to create the assembler at all. The assembler was a much larger piece of work. You have the binary shader. You can disassemble it using the D3D compiler but getting the text back to binary is a major task. I am now fully aware that there exists documentation for shader assembler inside the WDK but none of that was used when creating the assembler. I have dumped over 100 games to make sure that all shader ops in those games could be assembled back to binary. I've pretty much contributed everything I can give to 3D Vision already. My wrappers are many years old and getting my DX9 prototype usable is not worth the effort. I've not gotten very far with DX12 as I started about a year ago and it's pretty much halted now. DX10 prototype has some issues. DX11 wrapper is closest to working but I'm currently having trouble with it. I would need to improve it a lot and it can't compete with 3Dmigoto regarding features. I even doubt I can beat 3Dmigoto on speed as bo3b is great at optimizing. At the end of the day though the approach of the wrappers are completely different. Honestly I don't know to what extent my assembler is even unchanged as DSS recently improved it a lot for the shader hackers. I'm quite good at prototyping and hacking code together as long as it works. I have even considered what is the minimum slice needed to get a 3D driver up and running. I'm also not scared of getting my fingers dirty. You can ignore what I've done for 3D Vision but you can't deny my efforts that in the end is the basis for regex fixes which is almost every recent fix as far as I can tell. Again the focus is on the regex and not the assembler making it all work. I hope I won't regret posting this. And here is where it all started: Posted 12/15/2013 06:58 PM "I have recently started writing tools intended for 3D Vision from scratch. The Project is about a week old and it's progressing better than expected. The road ahead is long but the feeling of not being powerless is exciting. I doubt many people can collaborate on the coding side. I would really like to get in touch with the people experienced in making shader fixes. Games have so many shaders nowadays that I would desire a productive environment for fixing shaders. I do accept donations. I could eventually work with game requests but due to the nature of the beast success is not guaranteed. Money can be used for encouragement, appreciation, steering what game to work on. This is no kickstarter. The project cost very little to run but takes very much time instead. Given that I recieve sick pension at age 31 this is preferable as I have low income but lots of time. I manage with Visual Studio 2013 Express so software expenses are low so far. Game costs does mount over time as almost all of my software valued at 100 000 SEK is computer games."
As a tool developer for 3D Vision and the creator of the third DX11 wrapper I have solved difficult problems having limited knowledge going in. Progress is at times slow and you take things one step at a time.

I'm writing this because I'm a significant tool developer for 3Dmigoto even though my efforts only lasted for a few years and DSS keeps trying to make my contribution look like it was nothing. From my perspective it was not a team effort. bo3b talked to me in the beginning and but very quickly we started working on different things. I have had minimal contact with DSS. It is tough to collaborate at all with that time zone difference and with me practically not using git for development.

My DX9-12 wrapper prototypes has only been seriously used for DX11 games before 3Dmigoto could run on Windows 8.

My main contribution to 3Dmigoto is the assembler which was heavily reversed engineered with almost no documentation going in. The hash function to enable assembler at all was step by step reverse engineered using IDA Pro and converted to x86 assembler over to C.
This was required to create the assembler at all.

The assembler was a much larger piece of work. You have the binary shader. You can disassemble it using the D3D compiler but getting the text back to binary is a major task. I am now fully aware that there exists documentation for shader assembler inside the WDK but none of that was used when creating the assembler.

I have dumped over 100 games to make sure that all shader ops in those games could be assembled back to binary.

I've pretty much contributed everything I can give to 3D Vision already.
My wrappers are many years old and getting my DX9 prototype usable is not worth the effort.
I've not gotten very far with DX12 as I started about a year ago and it's pretty much halted now.
DX10 prototype has some issues.
DX11 wrapper is closest to working but I'm currently having trouble with it. I would need to improve it a lot and it can't compete with 3Dmigoto regarding features. I even doubt I can beat 3Dmigoto on speed as bo3b is great at optimizing. At the end of the day though the approach of the wrappers are completely different.

Honestly I don't know to what extent my assembler is even unchanged as DSS recently improved it a lot for the shader hackers.

I'm quite good at prototyping and hacking code together as long as it works.
I have even considered what is the minimum slice needed to get a 3D driver up and running.
I'm also not scared of getting my fingers dirty.

You can ignore what I've done for 3D Vision but you can't deny my efforts that in the end is the basis for regex fixes which is almost every recent fix as far as I can tell.
Again the focus is on the regex and not the assembler making it all work.

I hope I won't regret posting this.

And here is where it all started:
Posted 12/15/2013 06:58 PM
"I have recently started writing tools intended for 3D Vision from scratch.
The Project is about a week old and it's progressing better than expected.

The road ahead is long but the feeling of not being powerless is exciting.

I doubt many people can collaborate on the coding side.

I would really like to get in touch with the people experienced in making shader fixes.
Games have so many shaders nowadays that I would desire a productive environment for fixing shaders.

I do accept donations.
I could eventually work with game requests but due to the
nature of the beast success is not guaranteed.

Money can be used for encouragement, appreciation, steering what game to work on.

This is no kickstarter. The project cost very little to run but takes very much time instead.
Given that I recieve sick pension at age 31 this is preferable as I have low income but lots of time.
I manage with Visual Studio 2013 Express so software expenses are low so far.
Game costs does mount over time as almost all of my software valued at 100 000 SEK is computer games."

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

Posted 04/05/2019 07:16 PM   
no one can deny the contribution u've made, Flugan, but still, what's ur point ?
no one can deny the contribution u've made, Flugan, but still, what's ur point ?

Posted 04/05/2019 08:14 PM   
First of all just pointed out how easy it is to forget the tool makens. As a tool maker which has alteady reached my limit I think I am pretty done. I don’t know how money will be handled in the future. I really don’t know how to proceed from here. One thing I do know is when 3D vision breaks next year we will have trouble.
First of all just pointed out how easy it is to forget the tool makens.

As a tool maker which has alteady reached my limit I think I am pretty done.

I don’t know how money will be handled in the future.
I really don’t know how to proceed from here.

One thing I do know is when 3D vision breaks next year we will have trouble.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

Posted 04/05/2019 09:10 PM   
if the drivers were mothly pay based and the fixes were pay per fix, then people could keep developement running with a small sum and the fixers would get something for the trouble and you would only pay for the games you wanna play. maby there could be an key to unlock a fix that you would recieve after paying for the fix. all the fixes would be included in the drivers but only activated by the key purchased. that wey there would be no alternative sites to get the fixes from. And maby the fixes could be valued differently by the labor hours ect.. i would hapily pay more for the fix for cyberpunk for example than the game if the fix would be close to a 100% comple... that was just an example but anyways, i think the fixes have to be valued according to accuracy and gameplay value.
if the drivers were mothly pay based and the fixes were pay per fix, then people could keep developement running with a small sum and the fixers would get something for the trouble and you would only pay for the games you wanna play.

maby there could be an key to unlock a fix that you would recieve after paying for the fix.
all the fixes would be included in the drivers but only activated by the key purchased. that wey there
would be no alternative sites to get the fixes from.

And maby the fixes could be valued differently by the labor hours ect.. i would hapily pay more for the fix for cyberpunk for example than the game if the fix would be close to a 100% comple... that was just an example but anyways, i think the fixes have to be valued according to accuracy and gameplay value.

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Posted 04/07/2019 04:46 PM   
I wonder if anyone have been talking about the elephant in the room. It would be nice if existing fixes works on the new platform. We will probably have people using the last version of 3D Vision for quite a while until for one reason or another people have to leave 3D Vision for reasons that are hard to understand right now. I imagine many people will be using 3D Vision drivers and hardware as long as possible. There is currently no system to force you pay for 3Dmigoto or a specific fix. 3Dmigoto is open source and there is really few ways to protect the software with open source. There are ways to sell open source software but with full source available it is hard to block it from being redistributed. Any driver based on 3Dmigoto will follow the road of open source as far as I can tell. I might be wrong but if our 3D Vision replacement is open source it matters.
I wonder if anyone have been talking about the elephant in the room.

It would be nice if existing fixes works on the new platform.

We will probably have people using the last version of 3D Vision for quite a while until for one reason or another people have to leave 3D Vision for reasons that are hard to understand right now. I imagine many people will be using 3D Vision drivers and hardware as long as possible.

There is currently no system to force you pay for 3Dmigoto or a specific fix.

3Dmigoto is open source and there is really few ways to protect the software with open source.
There are ways to sell open source software but with full source available it is hard to block it from being redistributed.

Any driver based on 3Dmigoto will follow the road of open source as far as I can tell.

I might be wrong but if our 3D Vision replacement is open source it matters.

Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?

donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com

Posted 04/07/2019 06:09 PM   
The user's in this forum I think will donate enough to get the project started and support it. I think almost everyone who posts in this forum realizes that 2D gaming is out and the love for 3D gaming will keep the project going. The plus point is the user's creating the 3D tools are also 3D Vision user's.
The user's in this forum I think will donate enough to get the project started and support it. I think almost everyone who posts in this forum realizes that 2D gaming is out and the love for 3D gaming will keep the project going.

The plus point is the user's creating the 3D tools are also 3D Vision user's.

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 32GB Ram i9-9900K GigaByte Aorus Extreme Gaming 2080TI (single) Game Blaster Z Windows 10 X64 build #17763.195 Define R6 Blackout Case Corsair H110i GTX Sandisk 1TB (OS) SanDisk 2TB SSD (Games) Seagate EXOs 8 and 12 TB drives Samsung UN46c7000 HD TV Samsung UN55HU9000 UHD TVCurrently using ACER PASSIVE EDID override on 3D TVs LG 55

Posted 04/07/2019 06:42 PM   
Zig is correct. I personally feel honored to be a part of this community and would be even more honored to be a part of the creation of our stereoscopic future.
Zig is correct. I personally feel honored to be a part of this community and would be even more honored to be a part of the creation of our stereoscopic future.

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Posted 04/07/2019 07:13 PM   
  26 / 42    
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