For the techies: What's the 100% depth with a little convergance effect?
1 / 2
When you have a 3rd person game set with depth 100% and convergence set to around your character the game looks strange. The world looks like it has been set underwater, and all the characters look like little animated toys.
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
When you have a 3rd person game set with depth 100% and convergence set to around your character the game looks strange. The world looks like it has been set underwater, and all the characters look like little animated toys.
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
[quote name='andysonofbob' post='1001739' date='Feb 15 2010, 11:08 AM']When you have a 3rd person game set with depth 100% and convergence set to around your character the game looks strange. The world looks like it has been set underwater, and all the characters look like little animated toys.
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks[/quote]
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. 3D doesn't seem to look to well on 3rd person perspective. Everything looks miniaturized. It looks like Mr. Bill could jump out at any moment /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' /> "Oh noooooooo!!"
[quote name='andysonofbob' post='1001739' date='Feb 15 2010, 11:08 AM']When you have a 3rd person game set with depth 100% and convergence set to around your character the game looks strange. The world looks like it has been set underwater, and all the characters look like little animated toys.
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. 3D doesn't seem to look to well on 3rd person perspective. Everything looks miniaturized. It looks like Mr. Bill could jump out at any moment /fear.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fear:' /> "Oh noooooooo!!"
Cooler Master Cosmos II | ASUS X99-Deluxe | Thermaltake Water 3.0 Extreme S | 5930k @ 4.5GHz | 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200MHz | SLI 1080 Ti's | Samsung 950 Pro NVMe M.2 SSD | Corsair AX1500i | 3DMark Fire Strike Ultra - 13,780 | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit | Samsung CHG90 Super Ultra Wide HDR Monitor
I noticed this too when playing on a small screen. However, on my projector it becomes a non-issue. I can also max depth out as opposed to the ole' 20" CRT where I couldn't handle going past 50-60% depth.
I noticed this too when playing on a small screen. However, on my projector it becomes a non-issue. I can also max depth out as opposed to the ole' 20" CRT where I couldn't handle going past 50-60% depth.
[quote name='Chibi_Chaingun' post='1002049' date='Feb 15 2010, 06:38 PM']I noticed this too when playing on a small screen. However, on my projector it becomes a non-issue. I can also max depth out as opposed to the ole' 20" CRT where I couldn't handle going past 50-60% depth.[/quote]
The larger the screen, the less depth that the drivers allow for 100%. The thinking is that the smaller screens need more depth to create a nice effect. Personally, I think it is stupid to limit the depth at all. What's the point of that kind of control?
[quote name='Chibi_Chaingun' post='1002049' date='Feb 15 2010, 06:38 PM']I noticed this too when playing on a small screen. However, on my projector it becomes a non-issue. I can also max depth out as opposed to the ole' 20" CRT where I couldn't handle going past 50-60% depth.
The larger the screen, the less depth that the drivers allow for 100%. The thinking is that the smaller screens need more depth to create a nice effect. Personally, I think it is stupid to limit the depth at all. What's the point of that kind of control?
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
[quote name='andysonofbob' post='1001739' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:08 PM']My question then: Why does this effect happen?[/quote]
The image(s) of Your 3rd person avatar is maybe 10cm high if You measure it with a ruler. If You place it an armslenght away by aligning the 2 images then it will look like a toy because a toy would also be 10cm high and an armslenght away if You picked one up.
To avoid this You can separate the 2 images so that it has depth. The more depth the bigger Your avatar will seem to be, because if something is far far away and still measures 10cm on the monitor glass it has to be gigantic to make that outline.
That's how I see it. The underwater effect could be because the ingame visibillity is limited just like in water, not sure though.
[quote name='andysonofbob' post='1001739' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:08 PM']My question then: Why does this effect happen?
The image(s) of Your 3rd person avatar is maybe 10cm high if You measure it with a ruler. If You place it an armslenght away by aligning the 2 images then it will look like a toy because a toy would also be 10cm high and an armslenght away if You picked one up.
To avoid this You can separate the 2 images so that it has depth. The more depth the bigger Your avatar will seem to be, because if something is far far away and still measures 10cm on the monitor glass it has to be gigantic to make that outline.
That's how I see it. The underwater effect could be because the ingame visibillity is limited just like in water, not sure though.
Your eyes are smart... When they see an object with a certain angle from the top to bottom, and they can work out how far away that object is, they work out how big it is, and this is what you're seeing.
The angle from your eyes to the top of the character, to from your eyes to the bottom is maybe, 3 degrees... If 3D vision is making this character appear to be 5m away, we use trigonometry, and realize that the actual height of the character is:
tan(the angle from top to bottom) = height of the character / distance away
so...
tan(the angle from top to bottom) * distance away = height of the character
If the angle is 3 degrees and the distance is 5m...
tan(3)*5 = height in meters...
so height in meters = 0.262... or about 26cm
Theres all the maths, but long story short, if you configure 3D vision properly, it will look right, but otherwise, things will look smaller or larger than they actually are...
Your eyes are smart... When they see an object with a certain angle from the top to bottom, and they can work out how far away that object is, they work out how big it is, and this is what you're seeing.
The angle from your eyes to the top of the character, to from your eyes to the bottom is maybe, 3 degrees... If 3D vision is making this character appear to be 5m away, we use trigonometry, and realize that the actual height of the character is:
tan(the angle from top to bottom) = height of the character / distance away
so...
tan(the angle from top to bottom) * distance away = height of the character
If the angle is 3 degrees and the distance is 5m...
tan(3)*5 = height in meters...
so height in meters = 0.262... or about 26cm
Theres all the maths, but long story short, if you configure 3D vision properly, it will look right, but otherwise, things will look smaller or larger than they actually are...
Nick
Twitter: @Dr_Inkduff
<b>Processor:</b> Intel Core i7 920 D0 (4Ghz) <b>Motherboard:</b> ASUS P6T
I have found that on my projector, in order to get things to appear in life like scale, a 10% separation or so usually works well, and a lot of convergence.
I have also noticed that ghosting is somewhat less then, as the two images almost overlap with very little separation between left and right image.
I can also push it to get more of the objects to appear out of screen without things looking weird, which actually results in better depth dynamics. The fact that objects popout of the screen itself is not something that excites me, but somehow, when some popout and some are inside the screen, the depth dynamics appear to work so much better.
Getting the relation between convergence and depth just right makes objects appear in life like scale. I also try to get them right so that
the aspect ratio in depth is maintained. If its not correct, objects appear as they are stretched and squished along the depth axis.
I especially enjoy this effect in first person shooters and in car racing games when you sit inside the car. You get pulled into the whole environment so much better when your brain actually interprets the cars and track in front of you in the correct scale.
I have found that on my projector, in order to get things to appear in life like scale, a 10% separation or so usually works well, and a lot of convergence.
I have also noticed that ghosting is somewhat less then, as the two images almost overlap with very little separation between left and right image.
I can also push it to get more of the objects to appear out of screen without things looking weird, which actually results in better depth dynamics. The fact that objects popout of the screen itself is not something that excites me, but somehow, when some popout and some are inside the screen, the depth dynamics appear to work so much better.
Getting the relation between convergence and depth just right makes objects appear in life like scale. I also try to get them right so that
the aspect ratio in depth is maintained. If its not correct, objects appear as they are stretched and squished along the depth axis.
I especially enjoy this effect in first person shooters and in car racing games when you sit inside the car. You get pulled into the whole environment so much better when your brain actually interprets the cars and track in front of you in the correct scale.
Actually, well I can only speak for myself but I find it the other way around. When something in front of you actually matches correct scale, I find it much more natural to look at and less of a strain. The separation is also a lot less which causes less ghosting and a more relaxed experience for my eyes and my head. I usually find little convergence and 100% depth more challenging to view and I enjoy the cool miniature effect that can be achieved, especially games like virtua tennis, or top view strategy kind of games.
Actually, well I can only speak for myself but I find it the other way around. When something in front of you actually matches correct scale, I find it much more natural to look at and less of a strain. The separation is also a lot less which causes less ghosting and a more relaxed experience for my eyes and my head. I usually find little convergence and 100% depth more challenging to view and I enjoy the cool miniature effect that can be achieved, especially games like virtua tennis, or top view strategy kind of games.
interesting... on my computer the 3d looks best at 100% depth. (on games with proper 3d support- games without it take allot of toying with for good effect)
interesting... on my computer the 3d looks best at 100% depth. (on games with proper 3d support- games without it take allot of toying with for good effect)
System:
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Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
[quote name='DanielJoy' post='1002508' date='Feb 16 2010, 03:08 PM']interesting... on my computer the 3d looks best at 100% depth. (on games with proper 3d support- games without it take allot of toying with for good effect)[/quote]
I think the depth effect is different for different peoples' eyes. For me, setting the depth to anything above about 70% makes me go cross-eyed and is unplayable. Others, though, complain that 100% depth isn't enough for them and they want nvidia to unlock the depth effect to allow for infinite depth. Just a matter of personal preference and/or physiology I think.
[quote name='DanielJoy' post='1002508' date='Feb 16 2010, 03:08 PM']interesting... on my computer the 3d looks best at 100% depth. (on games with proper 3d support- games without it take allot of toying with for good effect)
I think the depth effect is different for different peoples' eyes. For me, setting the depth to anything above about 70% makes me go cross-eyed and is unplayable. Others, though, complain that 100% depth isn't enough for them and they want nvidia to unlock the depth effect to allow for infinite depth. Just a matter of personal preference and/or physiology I think.
That makes sense why the game world look like a model world.
Usually I always set my first person and car games (including GTA) to max depth / min convergence. To me that setting makes these games look solid and real. Conversly, games like Prototype are set to low depth (<20%) with plenty of convergence. That keeps the toy effect at bay and looks great with explosion coming out of the screen.
BUT
I am enjoying the 'toy effect' in games like Tomb Raider Underworld and Assassin's Creed. The world has more presence.
@Freke1
I think the underwater feel to the game is because I am looking at the game through glasses which are flickering at 60hz per eye. I guess my mind compares the atmosphere shaders in games to fish tanks containing models of wrecks and lit with 60hz lights I might have seen. I dunno. I like the effect though.
That makes sense why the game world look like a model world.
Usually I always set my first person and car games (including GTA) to max depth / min convergence. To me that setting makes these games look solid and real. Conversly, games like Prototype are set to low depth (<20%) with plenty of convergence. That keeps the toy effect at bay and looks great with explosion coming out of the screen.
BUT
I am enjoying the 'toy effect' in games like Tomb Raider Underworld and Assassin's Creed. The world has more presence.
@Freke1
I think the underwater feel to the game is because I am looking at the game through glasses which are flickering at 60hz per eye. I guess my mind compares the atmosphere shaders in games to fish tanks containing models of wrecks and lit with 60hz lights I might have seen. I dunno. I like the effect though.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks[/quote]
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. 3D doesn't seem to look to well on 3rd person perspective. Everything looks miniaturized. It looks like Mr. Bill could jump out at any moment
Part of me likes this effect because once you get over the toy model look the world looks suprisingly 'real' as though you are looking at an artificial (I know, poor choice of words) world.
My question then: Why does this effect happen?
Thanks
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. 3D doesn't seem to look to well on 3rd person perspective. Everything looks miniaturized. It looks like Mr. Bill could jump out at any moment
Cooler Master Cosmos II | ASUS X99-Deluxe | Thermaltake Water 3.0 Extreme S | 5930k @ 4.5GHz | 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200MHz | SLI 1080 Ti's | Samsung 950 Pro NVMe M.2 SSD | Corsair AX1500i | 3DMark Fire Strike Ultra - 13,780 | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit | Samsung CHG90 Super Ultra Wide HDR Monitor
The larger the screen, the less depth that the drivers allow for 100%. The thinking is that the smaller screens need more depth to create a nice effect. Personally, I think it is stupid to limit the depth at all. What's the point of that kind of control?
The larger the screen, the less depth that the drivers allow for 100%. The thinking is that the smaller screens need more depth to create a nice effect. Personally, I think it is stupid to limit the depth at all. What's the point of that kind of control?
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
The image(s) of Your 3rd person avatar is maybe 10cm high if You measure it with a ruler. If You place it an armslenght away by aligning the 2 images then it will look like a toy because a toy would also be 10cm high and an armslenght away if You picked one up.
To avoid this You can separate the 2 images so that it has depth. The more depth the bigger Your avatar will seem to be, because if something is far far away and still measures 10cm on the monitor glass it has to be gigantic to make that outline.
That's how I see it. The underwater effect could be because the ingame visibillity is limited just like in water, not sure though.
The image(s) of Your 3rd person avatar is maybe 10cm high if You measure it with a ruler. If You place it an armslenght away by aligning the 2 images then it will look like a toy because a toy would also be 10cm high and an armslenght away if You picked one up.
To avoid this You can separate the 2 images so that it has depth. The more depth the bigger Your avatar will seem to be, because if something is far far away and still measures 10cm on the monitor glass it has to be gigantic to make that outline.
That's how I see it. The underwater effect could be because the ingame visibillity is limited just like in water, not sure though.
The angle from your eyes to the top of the character, to from your eyes to the bottom is maybe, 3 degrees... If 3D vision is making this character appear to be 5m away, we use trigonometry, and realize that the actual height of the character is:
tan(the angle from top to bottom) = height of the character / distance away
so...
tan(the angle from top to bottom) * distance away = height of the character
If the angle is 3 degrees and the distance is 5m...
tan(3)*5 = height in meters...
so height in meters = 0.262... or about 26cm
Theres all the maths, but long story short, if you configure 3D vision properly, it will look right, but otherwise, things will look smaller or larger than they actually are...
Nick
The angle from your eyes to the top of the character, to from your eyes to the bottom is maybe, 3 degrees... If 3D vision is making this character appear to be 5m away, we use trigonometry, and realize that the actual height of the character is:
tan(the angle from top to bottom) = height of the character / distance away
so...
tan(the angle from top to bottom) * distance away = height of the character
If the angle is 3 degrees and the distance is 5m...
tan(3)*5 = height in meters...
so height in meters = 0.262... or about 26cm
Theres all the maths, but long story short, if you configure 3D vision properly, it will look right, but otherwise, things will look smaller or larger than they actually are...
Nick
Twitter: @Dr_Inkduff
<b>Processor:</b> Intel Core i7 920 D0 (4Ghz) <b>Motherboard:</b> ASUS P6T
<b>Memory:</b> 6GB DDR3 RAM (Kingston) <b>Graphics:</b> GTX 260 (216 cores, physX); EVGA GTX 480 SC
<b>OS:</b> Win7 Home Premium 64-bit / Vista Home Premium 64-bit
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I have also noticed that ghosting is somewhat less then, as the two images almost overlap with very little separation between left and right image.
I can also push it to get more of the objects to appear out of screen without things looking weird, which actually results in better depth dynamics. The fact that objects popout of the screen itself is not something that excites me, but somehow, when some popout and some are inside the screen, the depth dynamics appear to work so much better.
Getting the relation between convergence and depth just right makes objects appear in life like scale. I also try to get them right so that
the aspect ratio in depth is maintained. If its not correct, objects appear as they are stretched and squished along the depth axis.
I especially enjoy this effect in first person shooters and in car racing games when you sit inside the car. You get pulled into the whole environment so much better when your brain actually interprets the cars and track in front of you in the correct scale.
/Linus
I have also noticed that ghosting is somewhat less then, as the two images almost overlap with very little separation between left and right image.
I can also push it to get more of the objects to appear out of screen without things looking weird, which actually results in better depth dynamics. The fact that objects popout of the screen itself is not something that excites me, but somehow, when some popout and some are inside the screen, the depth dynamics appear to work so much better.
Getting the relation between convergence and depth just right makes objects appear in life like scale. I also try to get them right so that
the aspect ratio in depth is maintained. If its not correct, objects appear as they are stretched and squished along the depth axis.
I especially enjoy this effect in first person shooters and in car racing games when you sit inside the car. You get pulled into the whole environment so much better when your brain actually interprets the cars and track in front of you in the correct scale.
/Linus
Eh, one just gets used to it as his/her eyes get stronger.
Eh, one just gets used to it as his/her eyes get stronger.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Actually, well I can only speak for myself but I find it the other way around. When something in front of you actually matches correct scale, I find it much more natural to look at and less of a strain. The separation is also a lot less which causes less ghosting and a more relaxed experience for my eyes and my head. I usually find little convergence and 100% depth more challenging to view and I enjoy the cool miniature effect that can be achieved, especially games like virtua tennis, or top view strategy kind of games.
/Linus
Actually, well I can only speak for myself but I find it the other way around. When something in front of you actually matches correct scale, I find it much more natural to look at and less of a strain. The separation is also a lot less which causes less ghosting and a more relaxed experience for my eyes and my head. I usually find little convergence and 100% depth more challenging to view and I enjoy the cool miniature effect that can be achieved, especially games like virtua tennis, or top view strategy kind of games.
/Linus
System:
Intel I7 920 overclocked to 4ghz
Asus Rampage Extreme II
2 Ge-force 480 in SLI
GTX 295 PhysX Card
12gb ddr3 2000mhz ram
Intel SSD in RAID 0
BR RW
1000w Sony surround sound
NVIDIA 3D Vision
3d displays tested:
Mitsubishi 65" DLP 3d HDTV (good old 1080p checkerboard since 2007!!!)
Panasonic VT25 (nice 2d but I returned it due to cross talk)
Acer H5360 720p on 130" screen (the best 3d)
23" Acer LCD monitor (horrible cross talk- sold it)
Samsung 65D8000
I think the depth effect is different for different peoples' eyes. For me, setting the depth to anything above about 70% makes me go cross-eyed and is unplayable. Others, though, complain that 100% depth isn't enough for them and they want nvidia to unlock the depth effect to allow for infinite depth. Just a matter of personal preference and/or physiology I think.
I think the depth effect is different for different peoples' eyes. For me, setting the depth to anything above about 70% makes me go cross-eyed and is unplayable. Others, though, complain that 100% depth isn't enough for them and they want nvidia to unlock the depth effect to allow for infinite depth. Just a matter of personal preference and/or physiology I think.
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You wish your eyes get stronger the more you use 3d vison
Actually i read somewhere that the seperation of an object on screen must not exceed the separation of your eyes or else you will get eyestrain.
I have a small head so in my case it's close to 2''
You wish your eyes get stronger the more you use 3d vison
Actually i read somewhere that the seperation of an object on screen must not exceed the separation of your eyes or else you will get eyestrain.
I have a small head so in my case it's close to 2''
English is my 2nd language...
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3D vision user
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That makes sense why the game world look like a model world.
Usually I always set my first person and car games (including GTA) to max depth / min convergence. To me that setting makes these games look solid and real. Conversly, games like Prototype are set to low depth (<20%) with plenty of convergence. That keeps the toy effect at bay and looks great with explosion coming out of the screen.
BUT
I am enjoying the 'toy effect' in games like Tomb Raider Underworld and Assassin's Creed. The world has more presence.
@Freke1
I think the underwater feel to the game is because I am looking at the game through glasses which are flickering at 60hz per eye. I guess my mind compares the atmosphere shaders in games to fish tanks containing models of wrecks and lit with 60hz lights I might have seen. I dunno. I like the effect though.
That makes sense why the game world look like a model world.
Usually I always set my first person and car games (including GTA) to max depth / min convergence. To me that setting makes these games look solid and real. Conversly, games like Prototype are set to low depth (<20%) with plenty of convergence. That keeps the toy effect at bay and looks great with explosion coming out of the screen.
BUT
I am enjoying the 'toy effect' in games like Tomb Raider Underworld and Assassin's Creed. The world has more presence.
@Freke1
I think the underwater feel to the game is because I am looking at the game through glasses which are flickering at 60hz per eye. I guess my mind compares the atmosphere shaders in games to fish tanks containing models of wrecks and lit with 60hz lights I might have seen. I dunno. I like the effect though.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
-------------------
Vitals: Windows 7 64bit, i5 2500 @ 4.4ghz, SLI GTX670, 8GB, Viewsonic VX2268WM
Handy Driver Discussion
Helix Mod - community fixes
Bo3b's Shaderhacker School - How to fix 3D in games
3dsolutionsgaming.com - videos, reviews and 3D fixes