That's an excellent point bo3b. I was already leaning against the idea of putting the link on the blog, and that is another good reason not to.
So, it might mean that people won't know about my donation link unless they go looking for details about me specifically, or interact with me here in the community, but really I'm ok with that because it means if they do donate it's because they genuinely wanted to.
I guess there's still the question as to whether it would be appropriate to post it in a comment on the blog if someone specifically asked about it, or whether it would only be appropriate by private message making it clear that it is a personal donation link, or not at all?
That's an excellent point bo3b. I was already leaning against the idea of putting the link on the blog, and that is another good reason not to.
So, it might mean that people won't know about my donation link unless they go looking for details about me specifically, or interact with me here in the community, but really I'm ok with that because it means if they do donate it's because they genuinely wanted to.
I guess there's still the question as to whether it would be appropriate to post it in a comment on the blog if someone specifically asked about it, or whether it would only be appropriate by private message making it clear that it is a personal donation link, or not at all?
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[quote="bo3b"][quote="sammy123"][quote="DHR"]@DSS, don't worry i'm not going to do anything until we get a consensus.
[quote="DarkStarSword"]You're right, if a fix was made by multiple modders then it's clearly unfair to have a donation button for just one modder, so it would either have to be everyone involved, or none at all.[/quote]
Totally agree with that....is everyone involve, or none at all.
We can put a DONATION button in the blog, inside that page we can put all the donation button of modders.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I really don't think this would be appropriate. The HelixModBlog is not 'our' blog, it's Helix's Blog. Helix stated on numerous occasions that he was not interested in money and would not accept contributions. Putting a Donation button on his blog would be monetizing his site, without him getting value, or giving his permission.
If someone wants to contact Helix to ask for his permission, please PM me, and I will give you his email address.[/quote]
Oh right, i totally forgot, thanks for reminding. Definitely not appropriate to put up that donation tab without his permission/blessing.
Rest of it stands, i would be super happy to donate if you find common ground and manage to somehow make donations available for all the major players.
DHR said:@DSS, don't worry i'm not going to do anything until we get a consensus.
DarkStarSword said:You're right, if a fix was made by multiple modders then it's clearly unfair to have a donation button for just one modder, so it would either have to be everyone involved, or none at all.
Totally agree with that....is everyone involve, or none at all.
We can put a DONATION button in the blog, inside that page we can put all the donation button of modders.
I really don't think this would be appropriate. The HelixModBlog is not 'our' blog, it's Helix's Blog. Helix stated on numerous occasions that he was not interested in money and would not accept contributions. Putting a Donation button on his blog would be monetizing his site, without him getting value, or giving his permission.
If someone wants to contact Helix to ask for his permission, please PM me, and I will give you his email address.
Oh right, i totally forgot, thanks for reminding. Definitely not appropriate to put up that donation tab without his permission/blessing.
Rest of it stands, i would be super happy to donate if you find common ground and manage to somehow make donations available for all the major players.
@DarkStarSword
I'm not against your Patreon page or a donation...the opposite!, i like the idea because i know that all that will return something back to the community: more fixes, more engine cracked (like UE4 for example), more features, etc. But i think is unfair for the rest of the modders (current and news **maybe there are no more new ones because there is no reward**), because also we put a lot of time on fixing games and upgrade 3Dmigoto (bo3b in this particular case)...so if only one of the modders put a donation page and the rest not, may be harmful in the medium or long term.....i don't have a crystal ball, but is a possibility.
I always in the past say NO to donation, because there was a consensus to not accept them...and i'm perfectly fine with that. I'm more in the scenario that or is all of us accepting donation, or none. Where and when to put the donation button is up to modders, maybe using the sign here in the forum....the blog was one of many ideas we can throw here.
Donation will help modders to get maybe more games for fixing and for others to motivate, and maybe get the attention to new modders.
@DarkStarSword
I'm not against your Patreon page or a donation...the opposite!, i like the idea because i know that all that will return something back to the community: more fixes, more engine cracked (like UE4 for example), more features, etc. But i think is unfair for the rest of the modders (current and news **maybe there are no more new ones because there is no reward**), because also we put a lot of time on fixing games and upgrade 3Dmigoto (bo3b in this particular case)...so if only one of the modders put a donation page and the rest not, may be harmful in the medium or long term.....i don't have a crystal ball, but is a possibility.
I always in the past say NO to donation, because there was a consensus to not accept them...and i'm perfectly fine with that. I'm more in the scenario that or is all of us accepting donation, or none. Where and when to put the donation button is up to modders, maybe using the sign here in the forum....the blog was one of many ideas we can throw here.
Donation will help modders to get maybe more games for fixing and for others to motivate, and maybe get the attention to new modders.
Just a few thoughts:
-The biggest problem with donations is that there are multiple fixers, and a fairly small active community. This means the pool of donations is likely going to be a fairly small one, meaning it won't go very far if shared amongst all the fixers.
-I personally have no objection to DSS taking donations to fund an SLI build. He certainly contributes a lot to the community, both in his work on 3DMigoto, and on the fixes themselves. An SLI setup will allow him to do even more.
-To repeat myself from earlier, I quite like the idea of setting aside a certain amount per month to be spent on games that can be shared amongst the fixers. In my opinion, this is best done by having multiple accounts with one game on each, as it results in the best "value". The credentials for this could be shared amongst the fixers via a google doc. Once someone has contributed a few fixes to the community (not just disabling effects mind), they could be granted access. I'd also include Flugan in this, for his work. I would probably be the best person to maintain these accounts/credentials, as my ability to buy cheap games makes the money go much further. I'm not much of a fixer yet though, so I wouldn't use these games/accounts myself.
-I'd really like to get bo3b's take on this. He's put so much work into 3dmigoto already, and this is (to some extent) monetising his work. If he's not okay with this, I'd have serious reservations about it continuing.
Perhaps a fair way to do this would be:
-Set amount/percentage goes into a community pool for buying shared games each month, to benefit all fixers. That amount wouldn't have to be particularly high, as Russia allows me to buy most new AAA titles for $20-$30. Indies are $4-$7. The decision on which game/s to buy in any given month could be made using the kind of voting system bo3b has set up in the past, but with the link shared only between the fixers.
-Anything over the "game budget" either goes to DSS, or maybe it could be shared between DSS and bo3b, as they are the primary 3d migoto developers
-Perhaps the fixers with a particularly high output could get access to new shared fixes a month early
-The biggest problem with donations is that there are multiple fixers, and a fairly small active community. This means the pool of donations is likely going to be a fairly small one, meaning it won't go very far if shared amongst all the fixers.
-I personally have no objection to DSS taking donations to fund an SLI build. He certainly contributes a lot to the community, both in his work on 3DMigoto, and on the fixes themselves. An SLI setup will allow him to do even more.
-To repeat myself from earlier, I quite like the idea of setting aside a certain amount per month to be spent on games that can be shared amongst the fixers. In my opinion, this is best done by having multiple accounts with one game on each, as it results in the best "value". The credentials for this could be shared amongst the fixers via a google doc. Once someone has contributed a few fixes to the community (not just disabling effects mind), they could be granted access. I'd also include Flugan in this, for his work. I would probably be the best person to maintain these accounts/credentials, as my ability to buy cheap games makes the money go much further. I'm not much of a fixer yet though, so I wouldn't use these games/accounts myself.
-I'd really like to get bo3b's take on this. He's put so much work into 3dmigoto already, and this is (to some extent) monetising his work. If he's not okay with this, I'd have serious reservations about it continuing.
Perhaps a fair way to do this would be:
-Set amount/percentage goes into a community pool for buying shared games each month, to benefit all fixers. That amount wouldn't have to be particularly high, as Russia allows me to buy most new AAA titles for $20-$30. Indies are $4-$7. The decision on which game/s to buy in any given month could be made using the kind of voting system bo3b has set up in the past, but with the link shared only between the fixers.
-Anything over the "game budget" either goes to DSS, or maybe it could be shared between DSS and bo3b, as they are the primary 3d migoto developers
-Perhaps the fixers with a particularly high output could get access to new shared fixes a month early
The discussion of donations has been raised before and I'll share my view point without prejudice. This is where my ambivalence kicks in because I sincerely agree will all the various perspectives about donations and exchange of money. The only contention I have is that the exchange of money in this context can possibly change the nature of the beast. I'll flesh out a few points that come to mind.
1.) The most important area for me is if one truly wants to give back, the best thing you can do irrespective of a skill set is to make an effort to learn and contribute whether it is information, ideas, mods, play testing, tweaks, guides, fixes or anything that aids in the pains of getting games to work correctly in 3D. Taking one's time to contribute anything towards this effort is valuable and time spent is time spent irrespective of one's talents or specific skill. While most importance does go to the actual tools and fixes, any contribution should not be undervalued. Someone's time is someone's time.
2.) I used the term nature of the beast and my definition or position in this context has to do with this being my hobby. I love the fact this is a hobby and area of my life without strings attached or obligation. When you bring money in the picture, things will change and I don't say necessarily for the worst. I prefer exchanging money in a business context where I am the consumer and the recipient is the obligatory provider.
I am happy to donate and contribute money towards the community and the helixmod blog for the purpose of having the site and a central place for all 3D game related fixes, tweaks, guides,mods etc....thanks to everyone involved in this. It is a homogeneous thing that was built over time brick by brick. Somewhat reluctantly, I have to side with the perspective that Helix insisted on leaving money out of the picture.
Anyway, I want to be clear that I absolutely have no problem with anyone accepting donations and in fact in a perfect world, I'd want to make sure that anyone making notable contributions to be rewarded. For my little contributions, I personally have been rewarded tenfold because I have such an enormous 3D game catalog that has given hours upon hours of entertainment. It's what I call my cherished retreat or escape from reality of life.
I can assure you this was written without intention to undermine the significance of anyone's technical contributions. I'd like to thank every contributor and convey my appreciation for keeping 3D gaming alive.
My 2 cents, peace out.
The discussion of donations has been raised before and I'll share my view point without prejudice. This is where my ambivalence kicks in because I sincerely agree will all the various perspectives about donations and exchange of money. The only contention I have is that the exchange of money in this context can possibly change the nature of the beast. I'll flesh out a few points that come to mind.
1.) The most important area for me is if one truly wants to give back, the best thing you can do irrespective of a skill set is to make an effort to learn and contribute whether it is information, ideas, mods, play testing, tweaks, guides, fixes or anything that aids in the pains of getting games to work correctly in 3D. Taking one's time to contribute anything towards this effort is valuable and time spent is time spent irrespective of one's talents or specific skill. While most importance does go to the actual tools and fixes, any contribution should not be undervalued. Someone's time is someone's time.
2.) I used the term nature of the beast and my definition or position in this context has to do with this being my hobby. I love the fact this is a hobby and area of my life without strings attached or obligation. When you bring money in the picture, things will change and I don't say necessarily for the worst. I prefer exchanging money in a business context where I am the consumer and the recipient is the obligatory provider.
I am happy to donate and contribute money towards the community and the helixmod blog for the purpose of having the site and a central place for all 3D game related fixes, tweaks, guides,mods etc....thanks to everyone involved in this. It is a homogeneous thing that was built over time brick by brick. Somewhat reluctantly, I have to side with the perspective that Helix insisted on leaving money out of the picture.
Anyway, I want to be clear that I absolutely have no problem with anyone accepting donations and in fact in a perfect world, I'd want to make sure that anyone making notable contributions to be rewarded. For my little contributions, I personally have been rewarded tenfold because I have such an enormous 3D game catalog that has given hours upon hours of entertainment. It's what I call my cherished retreat or escape from reality of life.
I can assure you this was written without intention to undermine the significance of anyone's technical contributions. I'd like to thank every contributor and convey my appreciation for keeping 3D gaming alive.
As an alternative, I suggest that the members of this forum petition NVIDIA (including trade gaming sites like GameSpot) to provide FREE state of the art PC setups for game "testing and enhancement" to the key 3D Vision fixers (including SLI configurations). NVIDIA could also provide a set of game licenses for new game releases to these fixers. If our shader fixers are willing to provide their extremely valuable time, it seems that NVIDIA should be willing to donate appropriate hardware resources. It could also be good PR for NVIDIA, highlighting its uniquely talented user community and its zeal for keeping 3D immersion alive.
As an alternative, I suggest that the members of this forum petition NVIDIA (including trade gaming sites like GameSpot) to provide FREE state of the art PC setups for game "testing and enhancement" to the key 3D Vision fixers (including SLI configurations). NVIDIA could also provide a set of game licenses for new game releases to these fixers. If our shader fixers are willing to provide their extremely valuable time, it seems that NVIDIA should be willing to donate appropriate hardware resources. It could also be good PR for NVIDIA, highlighting its uniquely talented user community and its zeal for keeping 3D immersion alive.
As Pirateguybrush said, the active members in this community is very small, add in the lurkers and it's still not that big.
Most people that visit the forum only do so for one reason, which is something isn't working.
Whether it's a game or hardware, once their problem is solved, they never return until their next problem.
While Helixblog is still relatively unknown to the masses, it is frequented repeatedly by those that are benefiting from game fixes as compared to the forums. So in my opinion (not that I think it has even a miniscule amount of weight to it), this is this best place to have a donation option.
[quote="DHR"]We can put a DONATION button in the blog, inside that page we can put all the donation button of modders.
[img]https://forums.geforce.com/cmd/default/download-comment-attachment/67531/[/img][/quote]
While some might say that it would go against the principles of Helix and his original intentions, I would think that he is well aware of the increasing complexity of Microsoft's Windows software and their gaming SDK. As well as the increased effort that is needed to progress. So a donation button on the Blog makes sense to me, simply due to the visibility it would receive there. Now whether those donations are on an individual basis or pooled, would be the question.
But if a donation option is implemented for everyone, it needs visibility. So that supplemental funds are being received from outside the community as well.
I'd really hate to see one of our modders in legal trouble from pirating a game, simply because they did so to perform a fix with no intention of ever playing said game because it's not their type.(while the risk may be small, tis a risk nonetheless)
It's a grey area, people are divided.
"to donate or not to donate, that is thy question"
As Pirateguybrush said, the active members in this community is very small, add in the lurkers and it's still not that big.
Most people that visit the forum only do so for one reason, which is something isn't working.
Whether it's a game or hardware, once their problem is solved, they never return until their next problem.
While Helixblog is still relatively unknown to the masses, it is frequented repeatedly by those that are benefiting from game fixes as compared to the forums. So in my opinion (not that I think it has even a miniscule amount of weight to it), this is this best place to have a donation option.
DHR said:We can put a DONATION button in the blog, inside that page we can put all the donation button of modders.
While some might say that it would go against the principles of Helix and his original intentions, I would think that he is well aware of the increasing complexity of Microsoft's Windows software and their gaming SDK. As well as the increased effort that is needed to progress. So a donation button on the Blog makes sense to me, simply due to the visibility it would receive there. Now whether those donations are on an individual basis or pooled, would be the question.
But if a donation option is implemented for everyone, it needs visibility. So that supplemental funds are being received from outside the community as well.
I'd really hate to see one of our modders in legal trouble from pirating a game, simply because they did so to perform a fix with no intention of ever playing said game because it's not their type.(while the risk may be small, tis a risk nonetheless)
It's a grey area, people are divided.
"to donate or not to donate, that is thy question"
There's a good thread previously on this, with a lot of good insight.
"3D Vision Community based Gamefix CrowdFunding"
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/683950/
Another option might be donation drives.
There was one before..
"Helixmod. PLEASE donate. "
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/750693/
I don't get it. If someone wants to 'donate/gift' something as some form of thanks for a job well done and the receiver is happy to accept it, all power to those people!
But please consider not monitising the HelixBlog site. I think HelixBlog should probably remain completely monitise free, purely in the spirit of maintaining the positive stance the site has. And it does have positive recognition e.g. "[i]Fantastic! Those guys at Helix are unsung heroes.[/i]" etc.
[url]https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=198287&p=3066613&viewfull=1#post3066613[/url]
I don't know how positive the praise would be if people thought is was monitised. I don't know all that much about OR but my impressions (correct or misguided) is that you have to pay for some of the fixes. I certainly don't see people gushing over OR fixes like they do Helix.
So I say, don't monitise HelixBlog
HOWEVER!!!!
[b]by all means add donation links to the release thread you have started on a subject game's forum or here or Steam etc.[/b] These sites are already monitised one way or other. Plus it's voluntary; if people can afford it and are offering, why not?
That's what I think anyway :)
I don't get it. If someone wants to 'donate/gift' something as some form of thanks for a job well done and the receiver is happy to accept it, all power to those people!
But please consider not monitising the HelixBlog site. I think HelixBlog should probably remain completely monitise free, purely in the spirit of maintaining the positive stance the site has. And it does have positive recognition e.g. "Fantastic! Those guys at Helix are unsung heroes." etc. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=198287&p=3066613&viewfull=1#post3066613
I don't know how positive the praise would be if people thought is was monitised. I don't know all that much about OR but my impressions (correct or misguided) is that you have to pay for some of the fixes. I certainly don't see people gushing over OR fixes like they do Helix.
So I say, don't monitise HelixBlog
HOWEVER!!!!
by all means add donation links to the release thread you have started on a subject game's forum or here or Steam etc. These sites are already monitised one way or other. Plus it's voluntary; if people can afford it and are offering, why not?
I really support the idea of making donations to someone who has helped me to play a game in S3D and by this way saved me from wasting a lot of money on a game I otherwise could only play in 2D - or wouldn't play at all for this reason.
I can understand the concerns regarding donation links on the HelixBlog site itself. But as far as I know the files for the fixes are hosted on Amazon servers and the blog only links to the downloads. So I wouldn't see any problem if someone who has made a fix and has uploaded it to the Amazon servers includes a "readme.txt" file in the fix which contains a link to a personal donation site. So on the one hand there are no donation links on the blog. On the other hand the (many) people that visit the blog and download the fixes mentioned there get to know about the possibility to make donations for the fix they are just going to install for their game. And as it is obvious that the files are provided by the modder personally it is also clear that the donation isn't a matter of the blog. Or am I just talking like a pettifogger? ;)
I really support the idea of making donations to someone who has helped me to play a game in S3D and by this way saved me from wasting a lot of money on a game I otherwise could only play in 2D - or wouldn't play at all for this reason.
I can understand the concerns regarding donation links on the HelixBlog site itself. But as far as I know the files for the fixes are hosted on Amazon servers and the blog only links to the downloads. So I wouldn't see any problem if someone who has made a fix and has uploaded it to the Amazon servers includes a "readme.txt" file in the fix which contains a link to a personal donation site. So on the one hand there are no donation links on the blog. On the other hand the (many) people that visit the blog and download the fixes mentioned there get to know about the possibility to make donations for the fix they are just going to install for their game. And as it is obvious that the files are provided by the modder personally it is also clear that the donation isn't a matter of the blog. Or am I just talking like a pettifogger? ;)
My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!
I *really really* don't like the idea of a Donate button on the helixmod site. I agree with andysonofbob, that it's contrary to the whole 'spirit' of the blog.
My other views are known - someone can individually gift a modder of their choice as much money as they want, including a new computer for all I care, as long as both modder and individual are happy with any subsequent expectations, and as long a modder is not inadvertently 'taking' of 'given' "credit" for someone else's contributions. This latter aspect could become difficult to parse if there is a collaborative effort on a fix, which there usually is for DX11 games.
I *really really* don't like the idea of a Donate button on the helixmod site. I agree with andysonofbob, that it's contrary to the whole 'spirit' of the blog.
My other views are known - someone can individually gift a modder of their choice as much money as they want, including a new computer for all I care, as long as both modder and individual are happy with any subsequent expectations, and as long a modder is not inadvertently 'taking' of 'given' "credit" for someone else's contributions. This latter aspect could become difficult to parse if there is a collaborative effort on a fix, which there usually is for DX11 games.
I think donate on the site itself is a bit of a slippery slope, especially since there is a bunch of people that contribute to this but a relatively small user base.
I think donate on the site itself is a bit of a slippery slope, especially since there is a bunch of people that contribute to this but a relatively small user base.
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No donation link on main site.
However
If people want they can write an excerpt on patch posts with there info for donations/patreon. If its a collab patch then it needs to include all peoples information. Putting information on each post is a good way to get point across off that you are grateful for contributions.
My only real request is that whomever posts any contribution information has an excerpt/link thats clear what games they worked on [which darkstarsword has]. This is necessary because of language barriers and some of us have worked on many games like I've probably worked on/helped with like a 100 games and don't want people to think that donation goes toward any of us those games.
The only real grey is collaborations. I'd probably ask person who worked on said game whats okay.
However
If people want they can write an excerpt on patch posts with there info for donations/patreon. If its a collab patch then it needs to include all peoples information. Putting information on each post is a good way to get point across off that you are grateful for contributions.
My only real request is that whomever posts any contribution information has an excerpt/link thats clear what games they worked on [which darkstarsword has]. This is necessary because of language barriers and some of us have worked on many games like I've probably worked on/helped with like a 100 games and don't want people to think that donation goes toward any of us those games.
The only real grey is collaborations. I'd probably ask person who worked on said game whats okay.
Welcome back eqzitara ! Good to see you here Again :)
I was just about to bump this topic myself, because I think we owe that much to DDS..
There has been said a lot about donations or not, and if yes how to do it..
But.. we can't accomplish any kind of consensus, and that leaves DDS's request for donations in a vacuum where no one takes action..
My suggestion is, for now anyway, that we WHO want's to donate DDS just does it, and if other fixers would like some donations, well feel free to follow DDS' example !
I think it's more than fair if any of you hardworking Guys out there, want's to get some donations, and I know some of you don't..
There shouldn't bee any hard feelings all the same, let's just move on..
All that matters to me is, that this great community continues in the same positive spirit as now..
Happy New Year to all you 3D Fellows out there !
Welcome back eqzitara ! Good to see you here Again :)
I was just about to bump this topic myself, because I think we owe that much to DDS..
There has been said a lot about donations or not, and if yes how to do it..
But.. we can't accomplish any kind of consensus, and that leaves DDS's request for donations in a vacuum where no one takes action..
My suggestion is, for now anyway, that we WHO want's to donate DDS just does it, and if other fixers would like some donations, well feel free to follow DDS' example !
I think it's more than fair if any of you hardworking Guys out there, want's to get some donations, and I know some of you don't..
There shouldn't bee any hard feelings all the same, let's just move on..
All that matters to me is, that this great community continues in the same positive spirit as now..
Happy New Year to all you 3D Fellows out there !
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Another line of thought that I've been encouraging DarkStarSword to consider is a pay-per-fix model. The idea would be to charge some nominal fee for fixes that he originates. Something like $1 or $2, $5 tops. Cheap enough so that people don't feel the need to share them, and buy their own copy.
The reason to consider this model is because we already know the community here in the forum is very small, somewhere around 100 people. The community on HelixModBlog is larger, maybe 1000, maybe as high as 10,000. Getting donations is pocket change relative to what DarkStarSword can earn at a real job. The idea would be to make this earn enough so that he can justify the amazing amount of time he puts into it. He can possibly make that kind of money if it's a pay-per-fix, and I'd like to see him be able to justify spending the time, not feel like he ought to be doing something more valuable. I'm pretty sure that Chiri's experience with the Indigogo campaign indicates that donations isn't going to be worth it.
This would put a kink in the community nature of our fixing, but given his track record and skillset, I personally think we'd be well served with a DarkStarSword that can justifiably spend the time on fixing.
What do you all think?
Another line of thought that I've been encouraging DarkStarSword to consider is a pay-per-fix model. The idea would be to charge some nominal fee for fixes that he originates. Something like $1 or $2, $5 tops. Cheap enough so that people don't feel the need to share them, and buy their own copy.
The reason to consider this model is because we already know the community here in the forum is very small, somewhere around 100 people. The community on HelixModBlog is larger, maybe 1000, maybe as high as 10,000. Getting donations is pocket change relative to what DarkStarSword can earn at a real job. The idea would be to make this earn enough so that he can justify the amazing amount of time he puts into it. He can possibly make that kind of money if it's a pay-per-fix, and I'd like to see him be able to justify spending the time, not feel like he ought to be doing something more valuable. I'm pretty sure that Chiri's experience with the Indigogo campaign indicates that donations isn't going to be worth it.
This would put a kink in the community nature of our fixing, but given his track record and skillset, I personally think we'd be well served with a DarkStarSword that can justifiably spend the time on fixing.
What do you all think?
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So, it might mean that people won't know about my donation link unless they go looking for details about me specifically, or interact with me here in the community, but really I'm ok with that because it means if they do donate it's because they genuinely wanted to.
I guess there's still the question as to whether it would be appropriate to post it in a comment on the blog if someone specifically asked about it, or whether it would only be appropriate by private message making it clear that it is a personal donation link, or not at all?
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Oh right, i totally forgot, thanks for reminding. Definitely not appropriate to put up that donation tab without his permission/blessing.
Rest of it stands, i would be super happy to donate if you find common ground and manage to somehow make donations available for all the major players.
I'm not against your Patreon page or a donation...the opposite!, i like the idea because i know that all that will return something back to the community: more fixes, more engine cracked (like UE4 for example), more features, etc. But i think is unfair for the rest of the modders (current and news **maybe there are no more new ones because there is no reward**), because also we put a lot of time on fixing games and upgrade 3Dmigoto (bo3b in this particular case)...so if only one of the modders put a donation page and the rest not, may be harmful in the medium or long term.....i don't have a crystal ball, but is a possibility.
I always in the past say NO to donation, because there was a consensus to not accept them...and i'm perfectly fine with that. I'm more in the scenario that or is all of us accepting donation, or none. Where and when to put the donation button is up to modders, maybe using the sign here in the forum....the blog was one of many ideas we can throw here.
Donation will help modders to get maybe more games for fixing and for others to motivate, and maybe get the attention to new modders.
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Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com
-The biggest problem with donations is that there are multiple fixers, and a fairly small active community. This means the pool of donations is likely going to be a fairly small one, meaning it won't go very far if shared amongst all the fixers.
-I personally have no objection to DSS taking donations to fund an SLI build. He certainly contributes a lot to the community, both in his work on 3DMigoto, and on the fixes themselves. An SLI setup will allow him to do even more.
-To repeat myself from earlier, I quite like the idea of setting aside a certain amount per month to be spent on games that can be shared amongst the fixers. In my opinion, this is best done by having multiple accounts with one game on each, as it results in the best "value". The credentials for this could be shared amongst the fixers via a google doc. Once someone has contributed a few fixes to the community (not just disabling effects mind), they could be granted access. I'd also include Flugan in this, for his work. I would probably be the best person to maintain these accounts/credentials, as my ability to buy cheap games makes the money go much further. I'm not much of a fixer yet though, so I wouldn't use these games/accounts myself.
-I'd really like to get bo3b's take on this. He's put so much work into 3dmigoto already, and this is (to some extent) monetising his work. If he's not okay with this, I'd have serious reservations about it continuing.
Perhaps a fair way to do this would be:
-Set amount/percentage goes into a community pool for buying shared games each month, to benefit all fixers. That amount wouldn't have to be particularly high, as Russia allows me to buy most new AAA titles for $20-$30. Indies are $4-$7. The decision on which game/s to buy in any given month could be made using the kind of voting system bo3b has set up in the past, but with the link shared only between the fixers.
-Anything over the "game budget" either goes to DSS, or maybe it could be shared between DSS and bo3b, as they are the primary 3d migoto developers
-Perhaps the fixers with a particularly high output could get access to new shared fixes a month early
1.) The most important area for me is if one truly wants to give back, the best thing you can do irrespective of a skill set is to make an effort to learn and contribute whether it is information, ideas, mods, play testing, tweaks, guides, fixes or anything that aids in the pains of getting games to work correctly in 3D. Taking one's time to contribute anything towards this effort is valuable and time spent is time spent irrespective of one's talents or specific skill. While most importance does go to the actual tools and fixes, any contribution should not be undervalued. Someone's time is someone's time.
2.) I used the term nature of the beast and my definition or position in this context has to do with this being my hobby. I love the fact this is a hobby and area of my life without strings attached or obligation. When you bring money in the picture, things will change and I don't say necessarily for the worst. I prefer exchanging money in a business context where I am the consumer and the recipient is the obligatory provider.
I am happy to donate and contribute money towards the community and the helixmod blog for the purpose of having the site and a central place for all 3D game related fixes, tweaks, guides,mods etc....thanks to everyone involved in this. It is a homogeneous thing that was built over time brick by brick. Somewhat reluctantly, I have to side with the perspective that Helix insisted on leaving money out of the picture.
Anyway, I want to be clear that I absolutely have no problem with anyone accepting donations and in fact in a perfect world, I'd want to make sure that anyone making notable contributions to be rewarded. For my little contributions, I personally have been rewarded tenfold because I have such an enormous 3D game catalog that has given hours upon hours of entertainment. It's what I call my cherished retreat or escape from reality of life.
I can assure you this was written without intention to undermine the significance of anyone's technical contributions. I'd like to thank every contributor and convey my appreciation for keeping 3D gaming alive.
My 2 cents, peace out.
Most people that visit the forum only do so for one reason, which is something isn't working.
Whether it's a game or hardware, once their problem is solved, they never return until their next problem.
While Helixblog is still relatively unknown to the masses, it is frequented repeatedly by those that are benefiting from game fixes as compared to the forums. So in my opinion (not that I think it has even a miniscule amount of weight to it), this is this best place to have a donation option.
While some might say that it would go against the principles of Helix and his original intentions, I would think that he is well aware of the increasing complexity of Microsoft's Windows software and their gaming SDK. As well as the increased effort that is needed to progress. So a donation button on the Blog makes sense to me, simply due to the visibility it would receive there. Now whether those donations are on an individual basis or pooled, would be the question.
But if a donation option is implemented for everyone, it needs visibility. So that supplemental funds are being received from outside the community as well.
I'd really hate to see one of our modders in legal trouble from pirating a game, simply because they did so to perform a fix with no intention of ever playing said game because it's not their type.(while the risk may be small, tis a risk nonetheless)
It's a grey area, people are divided.
"to donate or not to donate, that is thy question"
"3D Vision Community based Gamefix CrowdFunding"
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/683950/
Another option might be donation drives.
There was one before..
"Helixmod. PLEASE donate. "
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/750693/
But please consider not monitising the HelixBlog site. I think HelixBlog should probably remain completely monitise free, purely in the spirit of maintaining the positive stance the site has. And it does have positive recognition e.g. "Fantastic! Those guys at Helix are unsung heroes." etc.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=198287&p=3066613&viewfull=1#post3066613
I don't know how positive the praise would be if people thought is was monitised. I don't know all that much about OR but my impressions (correct or misguided) is that you have to pay for some of the fixes. I certainly don't see people gushing over OR fixes like they do Helix.
So I say, don't monitise HelixBlog
HOWEVER!!!!
by all means add donation links to the release thread you have started on a subject game's forum or here or Steam etc. These sites are already monitised one way or other. Plus it's voluntary; if people can afford it and are offering, why not?
That's what I think anyway :)
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.-------------------Vitals: Windows 10 64bit, Ryzen 5 2600x, GTX 1070, 16GB, 3D Vision, CV1
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I can understand the concerns regarding donation links on the HelixBlog site itself. But as far as I know the files for the fixes are hosted on Amazon servers and the blog only links to the downloads. So I wouldn't see any problem if someone who has made a fix and has uploaded it to the Amazon servers includes a "readme.txt" file in the fix which contains a link to a personal donation site. So on the one hand there are no donation links on the blog. On the other hand the (many) people that visit the blog and download the fixes mentioned there get to know about the possibility to make donations for the fix they are just going to install for their game. And as it is obvious that the files are provided by the modder personally it is also clear that the donation isn't a matter of the blog. Or am I just talking like a pettifogger? ;)
My original display name is 3d4dd - for some reason Nvidia changed it..?!
My other views are known - someone can individually gift a modder of their choice as much money as they want, including a new computer for all I care, as long as both modder and individual are happy with any subsequent expectations, and as long a modder is not inadvertently 'taking' of 'given' "credit" for someone else's contributions. This latter aspect could become difficult to parse if there is a collaborative effort on a fix, which there usually is for DX11 games.
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However
If people want they can write an excerpt on patch posts with there info for donations/patreon. If its a collab patch then it needs to include all peoples information. Putting information on each post is a good way to get point across off that you are grateful for contributions.
My only real request is that whomever posts any contribution information has an excerpt/link thats clear what games they worked on [which darkstarsword has]. This is necessary because of language barriers and some of us have worked on many games like I've probably worked on/helped with like a 100 games and don't want people to think that donation goes toward any of us those games.
The only real grey is collaborations. I'd probably ask person who worked on said game whats okay.
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I was just about to bump this topic myself, because I think we owe that much to DDS..
There has been said a lot about donations or not, and if yes how to do it..
But.. we can't accomplish any kind of consensus, and that leaves DDS's request for donations in a vacuum where no one takes action..
My suggestion is, for now anyway, that we WHO want's to donate DDS just does it, and if other fixers would like some donations, well feel free to follow DDS' example !
I think it's more than fair if any of you hardworking Guys out there, want's to get some donations, and I know some of you don't..
There shouldn't bee any hard feelings all the same, let's just move on..
All that matters to me is, that this great community continues in the same positive spirit as now..
Happy New Year to all you 3D Fellows out there !
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The reason to consider this model is because we already know the community here in the forum is very small, somewhere around 100 people. The community on HelixModBlog is larger, maybe 1000, maybe as high as 10,000. Getting donations is pocket change relative to what DarkStarSword can earn at a real job. The idea would be to make this earn enough so that he can justify the amazing amount of time he puts into it. He can possibly make that kind of money if it's a pay-per-fix, and I'd like to see him be able to justify spending the time, not feel like he ought to be doing something more valuable. I'm pretty sure that Chiri's experience with the Indigogo campaign indicates that donations isn't going to be worth it.
This would put a kink in the community nature of our fixing, but given his track record and skillset, I personally think we'd be well served with a DarkStarSword that can justifiably spend the time on fixing.
What do you all think?
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