Asus Maximus X Hero Z370
MSI Gaming X 1080Ti (2100 mhz OC Watercooled)
8700k (4.7ghz OC Watercooled)
16gb DDR4 3000 Ram
500GB SAMSUNG 860 EVO SERIES SSD M.2
Hi guys,
I got a reply from our man Ray:
[color="green"]Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of the office on vacation. According to the bug status there were fixes implemented to help resolve this issue. In fact according to the performance tests conducted the recent changes we were able to increase FPS by about 20% with GTA5 with our specific tests. Previously we measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is on with GTA5. With the fix we are now measuring a 41% drop in FPS when stereo is on (Note that a 50% drop is expected with stereo on normally without DSR). Of course the scene rendering FPS may vary from game to game but I'm surprised you didn't see any change at all with GTA5. Can you give me more details on the test system configuration and scene tested ( including resolution) with GTA5 on the 384.76 drivers? GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be helpful too.
Best regards,
Ray[/color]
Can you guys do the requested tests and give information in a post so I can feed them back? This is our chance to finally get this fixed. If there are any related questions or observations you would like to add, please let me know so that I can include this.
GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be great as you could then see the CPU usage drop on a graph. Remember to set your settings low so that GPU usage is as low as possible - we don't want the GPU to become the bottleneck.
It would be really helpful to provide logs for old driver vs. new driver, and not just for GTAV. Games such as COD Advanced Warfare, or AC: Black Flag, The Witcher 3, are some examples of games which caused huge CPU drops once Stereo3D was enabled.
Thanks!
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of the office on vacation. According to the bug status there were fixes implemented to help resolve this issue. In fact according to the performance tests conducted the recent changes we were able to increase FPS by about 20% with GTA5 with our specific tests. Previously we measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is on with GTA5. With the fix we are now measuring a 41% drop in FPS when stereo is on (Note that a 50% drop is expected with stereo on normally without DSR). Of course the scene rendering FPS may vary from game to game but I'm surprised you didn't see any change at all with GTA5. Can you give me more details on the test system configuration and scene tested ( including resolution) with GTA5 on the 384.76 drivers? GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be helpful too.
Best regards,
Ray
Can you guys do the requested tests and give information in a post so I can feed them back? This is our chance to finally get this fixed. If there are any related questions or observations you would like to add, please let me know so that I can include this.
GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be great as you could then see the CPU usage drop on a graph. Remember to set your settings low so that GPU usage is as low as possible - we don't want the GPU to become the bottleneck.
It would be really helpful to provide logs for old driver vs. new driver, and not just for GTAV. Games such as COD Advanced Warfare, or AC: Black Flag, The Witcher 3, are some examples of games which caused huge CPU drops once Stereo3D was enabled.
Thanks!
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Looks like they improved something but I'd guess it was not the thing that caused the issue - this might explain different results, althought still looks strange and unlikely.
I remember a case, not related to 3D, where the improvements, I think it was about low-level API, showed
up on low-end machines, but not on higher-end gaming (overclocked etc. ) setups.
I want to help by doing tests too, but I'm afraid I won't be able to.
If anyone tests, please use fast GPUs, low resolution, no AA of any kind, and in two variants, on ultra (if you must) and on medium except maybe geometry related things. Basically anything to make it more CPU-bound.
If stable, v-synced 60fps becomes possible with 3D Vision without liquid nitrogen, GTA V will be "truly next-gen experience".
Looks like they improved something but I'd guess it was not the thing that caused the issue - this might explain different results, althought still looks strange and unlikely.
I remember a case, not related to 3D, where the improvements, I think it was about low-level API, showed
up on low-end machines, but not on higher-end gaming (overclocked etc. ) setups.
I want to help by doing tests too, but I'm afraid I won't be able to.
If anyone tests, please use fast GPUs, low resolution, no AA of any kind, and in two variants, on ultra (if you must) and on medium except maybe geometry related things. Basically anything to make it more CPU-bound.
If stable, v-synced 60fps becomes possible with 3D Vision without liquid nitrogen, GTA V will be "truly next-gen experience".
I'm definitely seeing some FPS improvements in GTA 5 but my system is really old (2500k and gtx 970).
On the other hand this driver (384.80) sometimes gives me an Out of Memory red error message which I haven't seen before in this game with 3D on.
I'm definitely seeing some FPS improvements in GTA 5 but my system is really old (2500k and gtx 970).
On the other hand this driver (384.80) sometimes gives me an Out of Memory red error message which I haven't seen before in this game with 3D on.
I did some benchmarks with GTA V and used GPU-Z for logs. My system is old except GPU (1080ti) and it's in my signature. So I don't know how accurate it is for showing CPU bottleneck. Every benchmark's done at 1080p.
For my system there's no performance difference between 378.78 and 384.76 drivers with GTA V. Also at high-ultra mixed settings CPU bottlenecek is much more visible for my system than low settings.
Benchmarks and logs list that are in the 7zip archive:
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-45-48 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-55-24 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-15-44 3DV on low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-23-49 3DV off low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-52-49 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-45-09 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-18-11 3DV on low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-09-22 3DV off low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 384.76
http://www23.zippyshare.com/v/T8jYvU1c/file.html
Also trying to upload the 7z file to the forum with changed extension to ".tif". Change the ".tif" to ".7z".
I did some benchmarks with GTA V and used GPU-Z for logs. My system is old except GPU (1080ti) and it's in my signature. So I don't know how accurate it is for showing CPU bottleneck. Every benchmark's done at 1080p.
For my system there's no performance difference between 378.78 and 384.76 drivers with GTA V. Also at high-ultra mixed settings CPU bottlenecek is much more visible for my system than low settings.
Benchmarks and logs list that are in the 7zip archive:
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-45-48 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-55-24 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-15-44 3DV on low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-23-49 3DV off low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-52-49 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-45-09 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-18-11 3DV on low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-09-22 3DV off low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 384.76
[quote="RAGEdemon"]Can you guys do the requested tests and give information in a post so I can feed them back? This is our chance to finally get this fixed. If there are any related questions or observations you would like to add, please let me know so that I can include this.
GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be great as you could then see the CPU usage drop on a graph. Remember to set your settings low so that GPU usage is as low as possible - we don't want the GPU to become the bottleneck.
It would be really helpful to provide logs for old driver vs. new driver, and not just for GTAV. Games such as COD Advanced Warfare, or AC: Black Flag, The Witcher 3, are some examples of games which caused huge CPU drops once Stereo3D was enabled.
Thanks![/quote]
I also don't see any improvement in GTA V. I did benchmarks with min. and max. settings comparing drivers 382.53 and 384.76 in 2D and 3D. I used 1920x1080 in all cases. I have Core i7-6700K (4 GHz), 16 GB RAM, GTX 1080 and Windows 7.
Min. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 184.1 184.4
3D 87.1 88.7
Max. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 99.0 97.5
3D 34.3 33.7
Logs https://ufile.io/32yoi
You can see a ~66% drop with max. settings! The drop seems lower with min. settings, but it's only because the game hits some frame limiter set to 187.5 fps in 2D (this is the number I saw during most of the benchmark).
RAGEdemon said:Can you guys do the requested tests and give information in a post so I can feed them back? This is our chance to finally get this fixed. If there are any related questions or observations you would like to add, please let me know so that I can include this.
GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be great as you could then see the CPU usage drop on a graph. Remember to set your settings low so that GPU usage is as low as possible - we don't want the GPU to become the bottleneck.
It would be really helpful to provide logs for old driver vs. new driver, and not just for GTAV. Games such as COD Advanced Warfare, or AC: Black Flag, The Witcher 3, are some examples of games which caused huge CPU drops once Stereo3D was enabled.
Thanks!
I also don't see any improvement in GTA V. I did benchmarks with min. and max. settings comparing drivers 382.53 and 384.76 in 2D and 3D. I used 1920x1080 in all cases. I have Core i7-6700K (4 GHz), 16 GB RAM, GTX 1080 and Windows 7.
Min. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 184.1 184.4
3D 87.1 88.7
Max. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 99.0 97.5
3D 34.3 33.7
You can see a ~66% drop with max. settings! The drop seems lower with min. settings, but it's only because the game hits some frame limiter set to 187.5 fps in 2D (this is the number I saw during most of the benchmark).
Thank you lacuna and john 3 for taking the time to do this. Here is my reply, for record keeping:
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the reply. Here is feedback from 2 members of our community who have tested GTA5 extensively, as requested:
1. lacuna says:
I did some benchmarks with GTA V and used GPU-Z for logs. My system is old except GPU (1080ti) and it's in my signature. So I don't know how accurate it is for showing CPU bottleneck. Every benchmark's done at 1080p.
For my system there's no performance difference between 378.78 and 384.76 drivers with GTA V. Also at high-ultra mixed settings CPU bottlenecek is much more visible for my system than low settings.
Benchmarks and logs list that are in the 7zip archive:
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-45-48 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-55-24 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-15-44 3DV on low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-23-49 3DV off low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-52-49 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-45-09 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-18-11 3DV on low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-09-22 3DV off low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 384.76
http://www23.zippyshare.com/v/T8jYvU1c/file.html
[attachment GTA V test.7z]
2. john3 says:
I also don't see any improvement in GTA V. I did benchmarks with min. and max. settings comparing drivers 382.53 and 384.76 in 2D and 3D. I used 1920x1080 in all cases. I have Core i7-6700K (4 GHz), 16 GB RAM, GTX 1080 and Windows 7.
Min. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 184.1 184.4
3D 87.1 88.7
Max. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 99.0 97.5
3D 34.3 33.7
[attachment gta-v-3d-vision-382.53-vs-384.76.zip]
============
We are also wondering if these optimisations were GTA5 specific, because we see no difference in other games either. GTA5 is a "has been" game and we don't really care for it any more.
What we were hoping for was a bug fix which would address the universal problem which affects all games: CPU usage drops once 3D vision is enabled - performance will be automatically fixed in all games to minimise the GPU performance hit, be it 50% or otherwise.
On a related note, I would also like to highlight that history shows that generally 'stereo3D causes 50% performance hit" is likely a myth. Historically, 3D Vision and other drivers which supported both nVidia and AMD cards such as iZ3D, only caused a ~35% drop in performance. If I recall correctly, this was because the frame from the second eye wasn't being processed entirely independently, but using data from the first frame, which made it a lot easier to process. I remember testing an nVidia 8800 GTX and an ATi 5870 back in the day with ~10 modern games at the time - both of which caused this 35% drop in performance with both nvidia 3D Vision driver, as well as the iZ3D Driver.
Here is my post from 2007, highlighting: "Conclusions: The most important conclusion is that the drop due to S3D on Both ATi and nVidia cards is about the same: 35%"
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4550
As I said, the performance hit is a moot point; the heart of the matter is the decreased CPU utilisation caused by enabling 3D vision. We can accept whatever the performance hit is after the fact, as long as this primary issue affecting all games is resolved :)
Thank you guys again for your time!
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad.
Thank you lacuna and john 3 for taking the time to do this. Here is my reply, for record keeping:
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the reply. Here is feedback from 2 members of our community who have tested GTA5 extensively, as requested:
1. lacuna says:
I did some benchmarks with GTA V and used GPU-Z for logs. My system is old except GPU (1080ti) and it's in my signature. So I don't know how accurate it is for showing CPU bottleneck. Every benchmark's done at 1080p.
For my system there's no performance difference between 378.78 and 384.76 drivers with GTA V. Also at high-ultra mixed settings CPU bottlenecek is much more visible for my system than low settings.
Benchmarks and logs list that are in the 7zip archive:
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-45-48 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-55-24 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-15-44 3DV on low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-23-49 3DV off low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-52-49 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-45-09 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-18-11 3DV on low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-09-22 3DV off low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 384.76
I also don't see any improvement in GTA V. I did benchmarks with min. and max. settings comparing drivers 382.53 and 384.76 in 2D and 3D. I used 1920x1080 in all cases. I have Core i7-6700K (4 GHz), 16 GB RAM, GTX 1080 and Windows 7.
Min. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 184.1 184.4
3D 87.1 88.7
Max. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 99.0 97.5
3D 34.3 33.7
[attachment gta-v-3d-vision-382.53-vs-384.76.zip]
============
We are also wondering if these optimisations were GTA5 specific, because we see no difference in other games either. GTA5 is a "has been" game and we don't really care for it any more.
What we were hoping for was a bug fix which would address the universal problem which affects all games: CPU usage drops once 3D vision is enabled - performance will be automatically fixed in all games to minimise the GPU performance hit, be it 50% or otherwise.
On a related note, I would also like to highlight that history shows that generally 'stereo3D causes 50% performance hit" is likely a myth. Historically, 3D Vision and other drivers which supported both nVidia and AMD cards such as iZ3D, only caused a ~35% drop in performance. If I recall correctly, this was because the frame from the second eye wasn't being processed entirely independently, but using data from the first frame, which made it a lot easier to process. I remember testing an nVidia 8800 GTX and an ATi 5870 back in the day with ~10 modern games at the time - both of which caused this 35% drop in performance with both nvidia 3D Vision driver, as well as the iZ3D Driver.
Here is my post from 2007, highlighting: "Conclusions: The most important conclusion is that the drop due to S3D on Both ATi and nVidia cards is about the same: 35%"
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4550
As I said, the performance hit is a moot point; the heart of the matter is the decreased CPU utilisation caused by enabling 3D vision. We can accept whatever the performance hit is after the fact, as long as this primary issue affecting all games is resolved :)
Thank you guys again for your time!
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I have no idea about computers, but, if neither CPU nor GPU can run at 100% when 3D is enabled, maybe the bottleneck is caused by another part of the computer. Maybe RAM or VRAM, maybe any kind of cache or something else.
Or maybe the stereo driver is trying to manage/syncronize CPU and GPU to work together and is not capable to solve the situation without a poor rule that causes the slowness.
Maybe when 3D is enabled it causes the SO (Windows) to manage multicore CPU usage worse, and as the result we have the same effect as if we had only one CPU core installed, but apparently with all cores working but always under their potential.
The problem of this thread push me to ask mysefl if playing 3D should be really so taxing (around 50% performance lost). In theory the only part of the computer that has to think twice is the GPU, and maybe with a bit more work/effort put in developing the driver it could think only once (+ the 2nd "mirrorred" picture with only a bit of preformance lost, similar to "fake 3D", and not just think about 2 different pictures entirelly). Maybe this can have something in common with the bottleneck of this thread. Maybe this is the perfect situation/excuse to invest some effort and make the driver better improving the code.
I have no idea about computers, but, if neither CPU nor GPU can run at 100% when 3D is enabled, maybe the bottleneck is caused by another part of the computer. Maybe RAM or VRAM, maybe any kind of cache or something else.
Or maybe the stereo driver is trying to manage/syncronize CPU and GPU to work together and is not capable to solve the situation without a poor rule that causes the slowness.
Maybe when 3D is enabled it causes the SO (Windows) to manage multicore CPU usage worse, and as the result we have the same effect as if we had only one CPU core installed, but apparently with all cores working but always under their potential.
The problem of this thread push me to ask mysefl if playing 3D should be really so taxing (around 50% performance lost). In theory the only part of the computer that has to think twice is the GPU, and maybe with a bit more work/effort put in developing the driver it could think only once (+ the 2nd "mirrorred" picture with only a bit of preformance lost, similar to "fake 3D", and not just think about 2 different pictures entirelly). Maybe this can have something in common with the bottleneck of this thread. Maybe this is the perfect situation/excuse to invest some effort and make the driver better improving the code.
Duerf, you might not know much about computers, but your logic is good.
1. The CPU is indeed being maximised when the GPU isn't being maximised. It's just that the game can't use more than a certain number of threads (cores). This means that it is actually the game which is causing the bottleneck. For example, if the game uses 2 threads, and you have a 4 core system, then your CPU usage will show 50% usage. Make no mistake that your CPU is indeed being maximised. The problem here is that in 2D the CPU may be 50% usage, but as soon as 3D is enabled, it becomes maybe 35% usage, leading to severely degraded performance. If it remained at 50% usage, then you would get far better performance (assuming the GPU isn't being maximised).
This is the problem that this thread is all about.
2. Indeed it is very possible to minimise performance impact of 3D Vision. Nvidia demonstrated this at Pascal launch. If I recall correctly, it was related to "Simultaneous Multi Projection" and "Single Pass Stereo", which is VR tech, but there shouldn't be any reason it couldn't also be used for Stereo3D. Unfortunately, 3D Vision is not based on this technology.
http://youtu.be/dkiko9J5DfM?t=1155
Duerf, you might not know much about computers, but your logic is good.
1. The CPU is indeed being maximised when the GPU isn't being maximised. It's just that the game can't use more than a certain number of threads (cores). This means that it is actually the game which is causing the bottleneck. For example, if the game uses 2 threads, and you have a 4 core system, then your CPU usage will show 50% usage. Make no mistake that your CPU is indeed being maximised. The problem here is that in 2D the CPU may be 50% usage, but as soon as 3D is enabled, it becomes maybe 35% usage, leading to severely degraded performance. If it remained at 50% usage, then you would get far better performance (assuming the GPU isn't being maximised).
This is the problem that this thread is all about.
2. Indeed it is very possible to minimise performance impact of 3D Vision. Nvidia demonstrated this at Pascal launch. If I recall correctly, it was related to "Simultaneous Multi Projection" and "Single Pass Stereo", which is VR tech, but there shouldn't be any reason it couldn't also be used for Stereo3D. Unfortunately, 3D Vision is not based on this technology.
by the way is there any point overclock all the 4 cores or let alone use more than 3 if that´s the case with 3d vision. I was just wondering if that would make my old horise go faster as i think my cpu has began deteriating as i have been forced to bump the volts up and im not even running that high clocks i used to few year back.
by the way is there any point overclock all the 4 cores or let alone use more than 3 if that´s the case with 3d vision. I was just wondering if that would make my old horise go faster as i think my cpu has began deteriating as i have been forced to bump the volts up and im not even running that high clocks i used to few year back.
CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
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I got a reply from our man Ray:
Hi Shahzad,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of the office on vacation. According to the bug status there were fixes implemented to help resolve this issue. In fact according to the performance tests conducted the recent changes we were able to increase FPS by about 20% with GTA5 with our specific tests. Previously we measured 61% drop in FPS when stereo is on with GTA5. With the fix we are now measuring a 41% drop in FPS when stereo is on (Note that a 50% drop is expected with stereo on normally without DSR). Of course the scene rendering FPS may vary from game to game but I'm surprised you didn't see any change at all with GTA5. Can you give me more details on the test system configuration and scene tested ( including resolution) with GTA5 on the 384.76 drivers? GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be helpful too.
Best regards,
Ray
Can you guys do the requested tests and give information in a post so I can feed them back? This is our chance to finally get this fixed. If there are any related questions or observations you would like to add, please let me know so that I can include this.
GPU-Z logs for stereo on/off would be great as you could then see the CPU usage drop on a graph. Remember to set your settings low so that GPU usage is as low as possible - we don't want the GPU to become the bottleneck.
It would be really helpful to provide logs for old driver vs. new driver, and not just for GTAV. Games such as COD Advanced Warfare, or AC: Black Flag, The Witcher 3, are some examples of games which caused huge CPU drops once Stereo3D was enabled.
Thanks!
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
I remember a case, not related to 3D, where the improvements, I think it was about low-level API, showed
up on low-end machines, but not on higher-end gaming (overclocked etc. ) setups.
I want to help by doing tests too, but I'm afraid I won't be able to.
If anyone tests, please use fast GPUs, low resolution, no AA of any kind, and in two variants, on ultra (if you must) and on medium except maybe geometry related things. Basically anything to make it more CPU-bound.
If stable, v-synced 60fps becomes possible with 3D Vision without liquid nitrogen, GTA V will be "truly next-gen experience".
On the other hand this driver (384.80) sometimes gives me an Out of Memory red error message which I haven't seen before in this game with 3D on.
For my system there's no performance difference between 378.78 and 384.76 drivers with GTA V. Also at high-ultra mixed settings CPU bottlenecek is much more visible for my system than low settings.
Benchmarks and logs list that are in the 7zip archive:
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-45-48 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-55-24 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-15-44 3DV on low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-23-49 3DV off low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-52-49 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-45-09 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-18-11 3DV on low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-09-22 3DV off low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 384.76
http://www23.zippyshare.com/v/T8jYvU1c/file.html
Also trying to upload the 7z file to the forum with changed extension to ".tif". Change the ".tif" to ".7z".
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I also don't see any improvement in GTA V. I did benchmarks with min. and max. settings comparing drivers 382.53 and 384.76 in 2D and 3D. I used 1920x1080 in all cases. I have Core i7-6700K (4 GHz), 16 GB RAM, GTX 1080 and Windows 7.
Min. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 184.1 184.4
3D 87.1 88.7
Max. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 99.0 97.5
3D 34.3 33.7
Logs https://ufile.io/32yoi
You can see a ~66% drop with max. settings! The drop seems lower with min. settings, but it's only because the game hits some frame limiter set to 187.5 fps in 2D (this is the number I saw during most of the benchmark).
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the reply. Here is feedback from 2 members of our community who have tested GTA5 extensively, as requested:
1. lacuna says:
I did some benchmarks with GTA V and used GPU-Z for logs. My system is old except GPU (1080ti) and it's in my signature. So I don't know how accurate it is for showing CPU bottleneck. Every benchmark's done at 1080p.
For my system there's no performance difference between 378.78 and 384.76 drivers with GTA V. Also at high-ultra mixed settings CPU bottlenecek is much more visible for my system than low settings.
Benchmarks and logs list that are in the 7zip archive:
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-45-48 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-01-55-24 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-15-44 3DV on low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-02-23-49 3DV off low 378.78
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 378.78
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-52-49 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-45-09 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off high-ultra 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-18-11 3DV on low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV on low 384.76
-Benchmark-17-07-18-03-09-22 3DV off low 384.76
-GPU-Z Sensor Log 3DV off low 384.76
http://www23.zippyshare.com/v/T8jYvU1c/file.html
[attachment GTA V test.7z]
2. john3 says:
I also don't see any improvement in GTA V. I did benchmarks with min. and max. settings comparing drivers 382.53 and 384.76 in 2D and 3D. I used 1920x1080 in all cases. I have Core i7-6700K (4 GHz), 16 GB RAM, GTX 1080 and Windows 7.
Min. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 184.1 184.4
3D 87.1 88.7
Max. settings
382.53 384.76
2D 99.0 97.5
3D 34.3 33.7
[attachment gta-v-3d-vision-382.53-vs-384.76.zip]
============
We are also wondering if these optimisations were GTA5 specific, because we see no difference in other games either. GTA5 is a "has been" game and we don't really care for it any more.
What we were hoping for was a bug fix which would address the universal problem which affects all games: CPU usage drops once 3D vision is enabled - performance will be automatically fixed in all games to minimise the GPU performance hit, be it 50% or otherwise.
On a related note, I would also like to highlight that history shows that generally 'stereo3D causes 50% performance hit" is likely a myth. Historically, 3D Vision and other drivers which supported both nVidia and AMD cards such as iZ3D, only caused a ~35% drop in performance. If I recall correctly, this was because the frame from the second eye wasn't being processed entirely independently, but using data from the first frame, which made it a lot easier to process. I remember testing an nVidia 8800 GTX and an ATi 5870 back in the day with ~10 modern games at the time - both of which caused this 35% drop in performance with both nvidia 3D Vision driver, as well as the iZ3D Driver.
Here is my post from 2007, highlighting: "Conclusions: The most important conclusion is that the drop due to S3D on Both ATi and nVidia cards is about the same: 35%"
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4550
As I said, the performance hit is a moot point; the heart of the matter is the decreased CPU utilisation caused by enabling 3D vision. We can accept whatever the performance hit is after the fact, as long as this primary issue affecting all games is resolved :)
Thank you guys again for your time!
Kind regards,
-- Shahzad.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
Or maybe the stereo driver is trying to manage/syncronize CPU and GPU to work together and is not capable to solve the situation without a poor rule that causes the slowness.
Maybe when 3D is enabled it causes the SO (Windows) to manage multicore CPU usage worse, and as the result we have the same effect as if we had only one CPU core installed, but apparently with all cores working but always under their potential.
The problem of this thread push me to ask mysefl if playing 3D should be really so taxing (around 50% performance lost). In theory the only part of the computer that has to think twice is the GPU, and maybe with a bit more work/effort put in developing the driver it could think only once (+ the 2nd "mirrorred" picture with only a bit of preformance lost, similar to "fake 3D", and not just think about 2 different pictures entirelly). Maybe this can have something in common with the bottleneck of this thread. Maybe this is the perfect situation/excuse to invest some effort and make the driver better improving the code.
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1. The CPU is indeed being maximised when the GPU isn't being maximised. It's just that the game can't use more than a certain number of threads (cores). This means that it is actually the game which is causing the bottleneck. For example, if the game uses 2 threads, and you have a 4 core system, then your CPU usage will show 50% usage. Make no mistake that your CPU is indeed being maximised. The problem here is that in 2D the CPU may be 50% usage, but as soon as 3D is enabled, it becomes maybe 35% usage, leading to severely degraded performance. If it remained at 50% usage, then you would get far better performance (assuming the GPU isn't being maximised).
This is the problem that this thread is all about.
2. Indeed it is very possible to minimise performance impact of 3D Vision. Nvidia demonstrated this at Pascal launch. If I recall correctly, it was related to "Simultaneous Multi Projection" and "Single Pass Stereo", which is VR tech, but there shouldn't be any reason it couldn't also be used for Stereo3D. Unfortunately, 3D Vision is not based on this technology.
http://youtu.be/dkiko9J5DfM?t=1155
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