Nvidia the only solution?
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I think I know the answer, but I am not totally sure. Is Nvidia the only graphic card solution to play good quality PC games in 3D? I ask before comparing prices, the difference is too big. Sapphire R9 380 Nitro Dual-X OC 4GB --> 221€ MSI GeForce GTX 980 Gaming 4GB --> 609€ I know nothing about the R9 380, but some people tell me that there is not too much difference between these two cards in terms of power, and I do not understand de difference in price.
I think I know the answer, but I am not totally sure. Is Nvidia the only graphic card solution to play good quality PC games in 3D? I ask before comparing prices, the difference is too big.

Sapphire R9 380 Nitro Dual-X OC 4GB --> 221€

MSI GeForce GTX 980 Gaming 4GB --> 609€

I know nothing about the R9 380, but some people tell me that there is not too much difference between these two cards in terms of power, and I do not understand de difference in price.

- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 660 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)

#1
Posted 10/16/2015 03:26 PM   
In order to use the great 3D Vision community game fixes at helixmod.blogspot, NVIDIA hardware is REQUIRED (like GTX 980). TriDef's Ignition product is the ONLY option for AMD hardware like the R9 380. Ignition, when used with game profiles having similar shader/lighting fixes to helixmod fixes, can provide excellent S3D (true 3D), matching 3D Vision. However, TriDef game profile (and Ignition) support abruptly dropped to about 5 games per YEAR, starting mid 2014. Ignition lacks the superb community support that this forum (and community) provides. Also note that the new AMD hardware, for some unknown reason, does NOT support HDMI 2.0 - so, native (full-resolution) 4K HD TV display modes are not supported.
In order to use the great 3D Vision community game fixes at helixmod.blogspot, NVIDIA hardware is REQUIRED (like GTX 980).

TriDef's Ignition product is the ONLY option for AMD hardware like the R9 380. Ignition, when used with game profiles having similar shader/lighting fixes to helixmod fixes, can provide excellent S3D (true 3D), matching 3D Vision.

However, TriDef game profile (and Ignition) support abruptly dropped to about 5 games per YEAR, starting mid 2014. Ignition lacks the superb community support that this forum (and community) provides. Also note that the new AMD hardware, for some unknown reason, does NOT support HDMI 2.0 - so, native (full-resolution) 4K HD TV display modes are not supported.

#2
Posted 10/16/2015 06:41 PM   
Intesting, I should investigate Tridef solution to know more. About 5 games per year is in fact what Nvidia provides us, if not because the intervention of this community. Sure that Tridef does not have a similar community making fixes? The problem with AMD not supporting 4K resolution is not a problem for me, I do not plan to buy a monitor with more than 1080p. Another thing is the monitor that can be used with Tridef. Must be 120hz too? any 120hz monitor is valid to use with Tridef? The overall experience playing a game supported by Nvidia and Tridef is more or less the same? Thanks in advance
Intesting, I should investigate Tridef solution to know more. About 5 games per year is in fact what Nvidia provides us, if not because the intervention of this community. Sure that Tridef does not have a similar community making fixes? The problem with AMD not supporting 4K resolution is not a problem for me, I do not plan to buy a monitor with more than 1080p.

Another thing is the monitor that can be used with Tridef. Must be 120hz too? any 120hz monitor is valid to use with Tridef? The overall experience playing a game supported by Nvidia and Tridef is more or less the same?

Thanks in advance

- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 660 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)

#3
Posted 10/16/2015 07:13 PM   
If you've never owned a 3D setup before, keep in mind that it takes some video power to achieve smoothness. In my experience single card doesn't cut it. That highlights two big issues: - Tridef does not take advantage of SLI/Crossfire - Nvidia's SLI is busted for the moment on the ROG Swift, so you might want to stay away from this particular screen (not many other good options left apart from VG278H I think). Some people advocate the use of a projector. No crosstalk, lower res so lesser video power needed (might get away with single card). Personally I think projectors are too big a hassle, but you might want to go that way.
If you've never owned a 3D setup before, keep in mind that it takes some video power to achieve smoothness. In my experience single card doesn't cut it. That highlights two big issues:
- Tridef does not take advantage of SLI/Crossfire
- Nvidia's SLI is busted for the moment on the ROG Swift, so you might want to stay away from this particular screen (not many other good options left apart from VG278H I think).

Some people advocate the use of a projector. No crosstalk, lower res so lesser video power needed (might get away with single card). Personally I think projectors are too big a hassle, but you might want to go that way.

#4
Posted 10/16/2015 07:33 PM   
TriDef supports almost any commercial display (monitor/TV) with native 3D capability - that is, glasses and display are both provided by manufacturer. Suggest you review their web site for supported games and system requirements. I have used Ignition (and AMD hardware) for over 5 years, and I have provided Ignition user profiles for many games, so I am very aware of its support community. 3D Vision community support is much deeper, in comparison (I only migrated to GTX hardware and 3D Vision earlier this year). Note that Ignition supports both AMD and NVIDIA hardware.
TriDef supports almost any commercial display (monitor/TV) with native 3D capability - that is, glasses and display are both provided by manufacturer. Suggest you review their web site for supported games and system requirements.

I have used Ignition (and AMD hardware) for over 5 years, and I have provided Ignition user profiles for many games, so I am very aware of its support community. 3D Vision community support is much deeper, in comparison (I only migrated to GTX hardware and 3D Vision earlier this year). Note that Ignition supports both AMD and NVIDIA hardware.

#5
Posted 10/16/2015 07:40 PM   
[quote="whyme466"]TriDef supports almost any commercial display (monitor/TV) with native 3D capability - that is, glasses and display are both provided by manufacturer. Suggest you review their web site for supported games and system requirements. I have used Ignition (and AMD hardware) for over 5 years, and I have provided Ignition user profiles for many games, so I am very aware of its support community. 3D Vision community support is much deeper, in comparison (I only migrated to GTX hardware and 3D Vision earlier this year). Note that Ignition supports both AMD and NVIDIA hardware. [/quote] So, if you have moved to Nvidia, I suppose in your opinion (you know both sides of the coin) Nvidia is a better choice, even having present the high cost of the Nvidia video cards and low options to choice a compatible monitors? I am not interested on a proyector because several reasons (I have already one and I barely use it). I am curious, speaking about the future, Tridef is diying (like Nvidia)? or the espectations are bigger? The community is alive or decreasing in members/interest? Next year is supposed to support instead of 5 games only 3, or it is possible to raise to 10?
whyme466 said:TriDef supports almost any commercial display (monitor/TV) with native 3D capability - that is, glasses and display are both provided by manufacturer. Suggest you review their web site for supported games and system requirements.

I have used Ignition (and AMD hardware) for over 5 years, and I have provided Ignition user profiles for many games, so I am very aware of its support community. 3D Vision community support is much deeper, in comparison (I only migrated to GTX hardware and 3D Vision earlier this year). Note that Ignition supports both AMD and NVIDIA hardware.


So, if you have moved to Nvidia, I suppose in your opinion (you know both sides of the coin) Nvidia is a better choice, even having present the high cost of the Nvidia video cards and low options to choice a compatible monitors? I am not interested on a proyector because several reasons (I have already one and I barely use it).

I am curious, speaking about the future, Tridef is diying (like Nvidia)? or the espectations are bigger? The community is alive or decreasing in members/interest? Next year is supposed to support instead of 5 games only 3, or it is possible to raise to 10?

- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 660 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)

#6
Posted 10/16/2015 08:03 PM   
With NVIDIA hardware, you can use both 3D Vision and Ignition, so you have a broader choice of games. For example, with my (single) 980 Ti, I am currently playing Far Cry 3:Blood Dragon in DX11 with Ignition, obtaining about 30 fps average with ultra graphics settings, 3840x2160 game resolution (interleaved 4K 3D display). The 3D Vision community fix for Blood Dragon offers only DX9 and, unfortunately, this 3D Vision version has more visual artifacts than the Ignition version. No, it is NOT likely TriDef will be increasing their game support. They substantially reduced their staff - unlike NVIDIA, TriDef's stock price (a reflection of company health) has continued to slide over this past year...
With NVIDIA hardware, you can use both 3D Vision and Ignition, so you have a broader choice of games. For example, with my (single) 980 Ti, I am currently playing Far Cry 3:Blood Dragon in DX11 with Ignition, obtaining about 30 fps average with ultra graphics settings, 3840x2160 game resolution (interleaved 4K 3D display). The 3D Vision community fix for Blood Dragon offers only DX9 and, unfortunately, this 3D Vision version has more visual artifacts than the Ignition version.

No, it is NOT likely TriDef will be increasing their game support. They substantially reduced their staff - unlike NVIDIA, TriDef's stock price (a reflection of company health) has continued to slide over this past year...

#7
Posted 10/16/2015 08:17 PM   
I just recently helped a guy who wanted to use 3Dmigoto on AMD cards. He was modding games, not making 3D, but he reported back that shader hunting and editing and replacement is now working on AMD cards as well. Straight DX11, no nvidia.dll required. What that means is that you could in principle use Tridef as the engine that creates a 3D image, and then fix the game the same way we do. The games very likely use the same shaders for both cards, so it might even be possible to start with one of our fixes and get it to work on AMD cards using Tridef. Nothing blocking that path that I can see, so if someone wants to play around with that, please give it a try. Needs the 1.2.3 or higher version of 3Dmigoto as I fixed some bugs to allow it to work, and you'd delete the nvapi.dll from the install. Some things like changing convergence via hot keys would not work, but basic fixing like shadows should be possible. I don't have the ability to try any of this, because I don't have any AMD cards, and none of my hardware works with Tridef (they foolishly never supported frame-sequential).
I just recently helped a guy who wanted to use 3Dmigoto on AMD cards. He was modding games, not making 3D, but he reported back that shader hunting and editing and replacement is now working on AMD cards as well. Straight DX11, no nvidia.dll required.

What that means is that you could in principle use Tridef as the engine that creates a 3D image, and then fix the game the same way we do. The games very likely use the same shaders for both cards, so it might even be possible to start with one of our fixes and get it to work on AMD cards using Tridef.

Nothing blocking that path that I can see, so if someone wants to play around with that, please give it a try. Needs the 1.2.3 or higher version of 3Dmigoto as I fixed some bugs to allow it to work, and you'd delete the nvapi.dll from the install. Some things like changing convergence via hot keys would not work, but basic fixing like shadows should be possible.


I don't have the ability to try any of this, because I don't have any AMD cards, and none of my hardware works with Tridef (they foolishly never supported frame-sequential).

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#8
Posted 10/17/2015 12:43 PM   
One thing to be aware of if trying to use 3DMigoto with Tridef is that the StereoParams texture will be meaningless - you would need to find some other means to determine which eye is being drawn and what stereo projection settings are in use. It's possible that Tridef may inject this information into the shaders and you can use that, but then again it might not - I'm not familiar enough with Tridef to know.
One thing to be aware of if trying to use 3DMigoto with Tridef is that the StereoParams texture will be meaningless - you would need to find some other means to determine which eye is being drawn and what stereo projection settings are in use. It's possible that Tridef may inject this information into the shaders and you can use that, but then again it might not - I'm not familiar enough with Tridef to know.

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#9
Posted 10/17/2015 02:29 PM   
It almost sounds like a plan coming together! :D Necessity is the mother of invention after all! It's not like Nvidia are doing anything about it. They can't even give us the common courtesy of telling us if they have any plans with 3D Vision. I'm going to give tridef a go later and see what it's like. So sick of nvidia locking everything down then cutting everyone out!
It almost sounds like a plan coming together! :D
Necessity is the mother of invention after all!
It's not like Nvidia are doing anything about it.
They can't even give us the common courtesy of telling us if they have any plans with 3D Vision.
I'm going to give tridef a go later and see what it's like.
So sick of nvidia locking everything down then cutting everyone out!

#10
Posted 10/17/2015 02:42 PM   
bo3b this is good news!!!....since i have Tridef and use 3DTV Play i will try to make our fixes work using tridef: 1) Disable 3DTV Play (so no 3D from Nvidia)...maybe uninstall. 2) Use Tridef with generic profile (so no fixing injection from Tridef) or maybe tweaking some profile 3) Use SBS or TB 4) Use 3Dmigito 1.2.3 UP, deleting nvapi.dll I will take Mad Max as a Guinea pig. I know i have a Nvidia card, but i'm disabling 3Dvision/3DTV Play and using SBS/TB....so this will be the same as using an AMD card (in theory). In fact i can use my Nvidia card with Tridef SBS/TB and Nvidia is disabled by Tridef. If this work, i will make a thread here and in the Tridef forum (asking for AMD user testers). If works this will be the way that we can choose between AMD/Nvidia, not loosing 3D. Also this can attract more modders from the AMD part that benefits our community. AND we can have SBS and TB for once!!!!. Maybe contact Tridef staff later (possible migration users) [b]Our Fixes are the MAIN ASSET here[/b]....devs, nvidia, tridef, AMD.... no one except us fix games in 3D....all we need is a software that can produce S3D and sync with 3Dmigoto.
bo3b this is good news!!!....since i have Tridef and use 3DTV Play i will try to make our fixes work using tridef:

1) Disable 3DTV Play (so no 3D from Nvidia)...maybe uninstall.
2) Use Tridef with generic profile (so no fixing injection from Tridef) or maybe tweaking some profile
3) Use SBS or TB
4) Use 3Dmigito 1.2.3 UP, deleting nvapi.dll


I will take Mad Max as a Guinea pig.
I know i have a Nvidia card, but i'm disabling 3Dvision/3DTV Play and using SBS/TB....so this will be the same as using an AMD card (in theory). In fact i can use my Nvidia card with Tridef SBS/TB and Nvidia is disabled by Tridef.


If this work, i will make a thread here and in the Tridef forum (asking for AMD user testers). If works this will be the way that we can choose between AMD/Nvidia, not loosing 3D. Also this can attract more modders from the AMD part that benefits our community. AND we can have SBS and TB for once!!!!. Maybe contact Tridef staff later (possible migration users)

Our Fixes are the MAIN ASSET here....devs, nvidia, tridef, AMD.... no one except us fix games in 3D....all we need is a software that can produce S3D and sync with 3Dmigoto.

MY WEB

Helix Mod - Making 3D Better

My 3D Screenshot Gallery

Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com

#11
Posted 10/17/2015 02:54 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]I just recently helped a guy who wanted to use 3Dmigoto on AMD cards. He was modding games, not making 3D, but he reported back that shader hunting and editing and replacement is now working on AMD cards as well. Straight DX11, no nvidia.dll required.[/quote] Let's hope that he's not using it to cheat. Last thing we need is a ban on the dll(s), that he is using.
bo3b said:I just recently helped a guy who wanted to use 3Dmigoto on AMD cards. He was modding games, not making 3D, but he reported back that shader hunting and editing and replacement is now working on AMD cards as well. Straight DX11, no nvidia.dll required.


Let's hope that he's not using it to cheat.

Last thing we need is a ban on the dll(s), that he is using.

#12
Posted 10/17/2015 03:00 PM   
Ignition's connection to game shaders was never documented. Even some Ignition On Screen Display variables were not/are not described, so some in-game experimentation was required. Ignition also uses some unknown set of additional Rules (like AA overrides), not exposed in its OSD, to determine how a game is rendered. So, only Ignition developers could provide insight into things like what stereo projection settings are in use. I just submitted a TriDef support request (and started an Ignition forum discussion), referencing this message thread. Someone like Simon would need to share this information. Sounds like a great use of 3Dmigoto, if possible. I also submitted an AMD Global Support ticket request, referencing this thread, and describing my migration to NVIDIA after 5 years of AMD hardware...
Ignition's connection to game shaders was never documented. Even some Ignition On Screen Display variables were not/are not described, so some in-game experimentation was required. Ignition also uses some unknown set of additional Rules (like AA overrides), not exposed in its OSD, to determine how a game is rendered.

So, only Ignition developers could provide insight into things like what stereo projection settings are in use. I just submitted a TriDef support request (and started an Ignition forum discussion), referencing this message thread. Someone like Simon would need to share this information. Sounds like a great use of 3Dmigoto, if possible.

I also submitted an AMD Global Support ticket request, referencing this thread, and describing my migration to NVIDIA after 5 years of AMD hardware...

#13
Posted 10/17/2015 03:04 PM   
3DMigoto's frame analysis feature might prove useful to locating the Tridef settings, assuming they are available somewhere in the shaders.
3DMigoto's frame analysis feature might prove useful to locating the Tridef settings, assuming they are available somewhere in the shaders.

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#14
Posted 10/17/2015 03:58 PM   
i just do a quick test....what happens with Tridef?? (i update to last version), now all the games give me a error "This game did not use Direct3D 9, 10 or 11..." All games just to work fine. The only game i can fire up with Tridef, using a custom profile (S3D, no P3D), was "Dying Light". This is the results: - Using Hunting = 1 or 2 (and press Num0) don't shows the 3Dmigoto overlay, also can't hunt using hunting = 1 - ShaderFixes and ShaderCache are created - Using export = 1, actually dump shaders in the ShaderCache - Shader in the ShaderFixes are not apply in the game, all shadows are wrong (using Hunting = 0) - I test with and without nvapi64.dll - Using 1.2.4 version of 3Dmigoto To do more test with others games, i will have to sort out that error of Tridef.
i just do a quick test....what happens with Tridef?? (i update to last version), now all the games give me a error "This game did not use Direct3D 9, 10 or 11..." All games just to work fine.

The only game i can fire up with Tridef, using a custom profile (S3D, no P3D), was "Dying Light". This is the results:
- Using Hunting = 1 or 2 (and press Num0) don't shows the 3Dmigoto overlay, also can't hunt using hunting = 1
- ShaderFixes and ShaderCache are created
- Using export = 1, actually dump shaders in the ShaderCache
- Shader in the ShaderFixes are not apply in the game, all shadows are wrong (using Hunting = 0)
- I test with and without nvapi64.dll
- Using 1.2.4 version of 3Dmigoto

To do more test with others games, i will have to sort out that error of Tridef.

MY WEB

Helix Mod - Making 3D Better

My 3D Screenshot Gallery

Like my fixes? you can donate to Paypal: dhr.donation@gmail.com

#15
Posted 10/17/2015 04:22 PM   
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