Exposed123 and I were having a friendly debate about which is faster, Win 8.1 or Win 7. That was kind of derailing the Dragon Age thread, so let's move that discussion over here if no one minds.
Also, let's expand this discussion to how much effort you think we should spend on the different OSes.
For me, it's been a never ending time sink to try keep things working smoothly on different Oses, especially trying to help on one-off problems that people run into.
I know this community is small, but I want to understand the motivations here for running different OSes. Hopefully we are representative of the bigger world that uses HelixMod and 3Dmigoto fixes.
From my perspective, the only OS that makes any sense to run today is Win 7 x64. Anything else is asking for more trouble, and I already got more trouble than I know what to do with.
The primary reason is that NVidia's 3D drivers don't appear to work as well on 8.1 as 7, but maybe that's perception, not reality. Please add your experiences and especially any links to prove your case. I can do yet another web search to document 8.1 problems we ran into for 3D, but it would be better to get your input.
Please recognize that this is not a fanboy discussion of the different OSes. If you want to run a different OS because you just like it, that's totally OK. I'm specifically looking for the fewest problems, the fewest glitches, the fewest incompatibilities.
We have Windows 10 on the horizon, and I'm seriously considering that it might make sense for all of us fixers to solely concentrate upon Windows 7, and specifically ignore Win 8.1 and Win 10. (Win 8 is essentially the same as Win 7).
The reason to consider this bold step is to simplify our task, and save us time. Any time we spend reading about 8.1 problems and trying to work out solutions is time not spent on fixing another game, or not fixing another bug in 3Dmigoto. Everytime we get a 'works on my system, but not yours', and you are on a different OS, we have to do extra study, and comment, and discuss.
Let's keep it 3D focused. I don't think it's very relevant if an OS runs better in 2D. If it's dramatically better, we'll naturally take a look.
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not planning to make any rash moves without getting input.
Exposed123 and I were having a friendly debate about which is faster, Win 8.1 or Win 7. That was kind of derailing the Dragon Age thread, so let's move that discussion over here if no one minds.
Also, let's expand this discussion to how much effort you think we should spend on the different OSes.
For me, it's been a never ending time sink to try keep things working smoothly on different Oses, especially trying to help on one-off problems that people run into.
I know this community is small, but I want to understand the motivations here for running different OSes. Hopefully we are representative of the bigger world that uses HelixMod and 3Dmigoto fixes.
From my perspective, the only OS that makes any sense to run today is Win 7 x64. Anything else is asking for more trouble, and I already got more trouble than I know what to do with.
The primary reason is that NVidia's 3D drivers don't appear to work as well on 8.1 as 7, but maybe that's perception, not reality. Please add your experiences and especially any links to prove your case. I can do yet another web search to document 8.1 problems we ran into for 3D, but it would be better to get your input.
Please recognize that this is not a fanboy discussion of the different OSes. If you want to run a different OS because you just like it, that's totally OK. I'm specifically looking for the fewest problems, the fewest glitches, the fewest incompatibilities.
We have Windows 10 on the horizon, and I'm seriously considering that it might make sense for all of us fixers to solely concentrate upon Windows 7, and specifically ignore Win 8.1 and Win 10. (Win 8 is essentially the same as Win 7).
The reason to consider this bold step is to simplify our task, and save us time. Any time we spend reading about 8.1 problems and trying to work out solutions is time not spent on fixing another game, or not fixing another bug in 3Dmigoto. Everytime we get a 'works on my system, but not yours', and you are on a different OS, we have to do extra study, and comment, and discuss.
Let's keep it 3D focused. I don't think it's very relevant if an OS runs better in 2D. If it's dramatically better, we'll naturally take a look.
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not planning to make any rash moves without getting input.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
As a start, please recognize that we would not make any changes that are specifically known to cause 8.1 or 10 problems, we just would not look at them specifically.
If someone wanted to continue to run 8.1 or 10, that would be completely fine, it just would be incumbent upon them to fix and research any problems they have. It's all open source, all fixes are public.
As a start, please recognize that we would not make any changes that are specifically known to cause 8.1 or 10 problems, we just would not look at them specifically.
If someone wanted to continue to run 8.1 or 10, that would be completely fine, it just would be incumbent upon them to fix and research any problems they have. It's all open source, all fixes are public.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Chris Roberts, being at least to some degree a gamer's developer, had noticed the trend of having Microsoft produce a good OS, followed by a bad one, followed by a good one, and so on. As you probably know, he stated that Star Citizen would be optimised specifically for Win 7, as the vast majority of users were not initially impressed by it's successor, and I concurred with that sentiment at the time. I re-introduced the trusty start menu button to Win 8.1, and used that OS simply as an experimental one, seeing Win 7 as my main one. As it turns out, I've actually got more 3D games installed on 8.1 than I have on Win 7. That's in part due to the fact that I've got the DK2 set up solely on Win 7, and I don't really want to mess around with that system too much. Using X-Rebirth, Pinball FX2 and Skyrim as examples, I can't honestly detect much of a fps performance difference between the two operating systems. There haven't been any instability issues, or instances where the fixes weren't compatible with either OS. So far, only two of my chosen titles haven't worked, one being because it required a newer version of DirectX, which rendered many other titles unplayable, the other being that my driver was too old for the 3D fix to function.
Using a stable although rapidly aging driver, has so far helped make the choice of a preferential OS a non-issue in my experience with SLI scaling, true S3D and PhysX capabilities all pretty much intact on both systems. I've most probably been lucky so far with the games that I've preferred to play up until now, but if the Witcher 3 doesn't work well in 3D this coming May, it'll be time for a major rethink. With all else being equal, I'd be surprised if I couldn't get the Witcher 3 working just as well on 8.1 as I could on Win 7.
Chris Roberts, being at least to some degree a gamer's developer, had noticed the trend of having Microsoft produce a good OS, followed by a bad one, followed by a good one, and so on. As you probably know, he stated that Star Citizen would be optimised specifically for Win 7, as the vast majority of users were not initially impressed by it's successor, and I concurred with that sentiment at the time. I re-introduced the trusty start menu button to Win 8.1, and used that OS simply as an experimental one, seeing Win 7 as my main one. As it turns out, I've actually got more 3D games installed on 8.1 than I have on Win 7. That's in part due to the fact that I've got the DK2 set up solely on Win 7, and I don't really want to mess around with that system too much. Using X-Rebirth, Pinball FX2 and Skyrim as examples, I can't honestly detect much of a fps performance difference between the two operating systems. There haven't been any instability issues, or instances where the fixes weren't compatible with either OS. So far, only two of my chosen titles haven't worked, one being because it required a newer version of DirectX, which rendered many other titles unplayable, the other being that my driver was too old for the 3D fix to function.
Using a stable although rapidly aging driver, has so far helped make the choice of a preferential OS a non-issue in my experience with SLI scaling, true S3D and PhysX capabilities all pretty much intact on both systems. I've most probably been lucky so far with the games that I've preferred to play up until now, but if the Witcher 3 doesn't work well in 3D this coming May, it'll be time for a major rethink. With all else being equal, I'd be surprised if I couldn't get the Witcher 3 working just as well on 8.1 as I could on Win 7.
[quote="bo3b"]Exposed123
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
[/quote]
Can only speak for myself of course, but that would be a NO GO for me. Beside that i personally like Win8(.1) (except metro), i don't see the reason in working on a system whose successor get a successor soon. And yes, Win7 was my favourite until Win8 came.
As for performance: i noticed no problems with 3DV on 8.1 that i didn't have with 7 too. Most benchmarks i've seen point towards 8>7 so i tend to say 3DV performs the same.
bo3b said:Exposed123
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
Can only speak for myself of course, but that would be a NO GO for me. Beside that i personally like Win8(.1) (except metro), i don't see the reason in working on a system whose successor get a successor soon. And yes, Win7 was my favourite until Win8 came.
As for performance: i noticed no problems with 3DV on 8.1 that i didn't have with 7 too. Most benchmarks i've seen point towards 8>7 so i tend to say 3DV performs the same.
I'm new to 3Dvision (pretty darn late to the game, I know) so up until the recent Dragon Age Inquisition helixmod, I was running only Win8.1 (I now dual boot 8.1 and 7).
I can't say that I've noticed any better gaming performance with 8.1, I moved to it simply because it was available and I wanted to try something new.
However, I don't think I would want to go back to Windows 7 as a main OS for one simple reason: I run a 2 monitor setup and under Win7 many DX11 games black out the second screen, and under 8.1 this isn't an issue.
In the end, 2D gaming under win8.1 has been a good experience. 3D gaming? Not so much.
I'm new to 3Dvision (pretty darn late to the game, I know) so up until the recent Dragon Age Inquisition helixmod, I was running only Win8.1 (I now dual boot 8.1 and 7).
I can't say that I've noticed any better gaming performance with 8.1, I moved to it simply because it was available and I wanted to try something new.
However, I don't think I would want to go back to Windows 7 as a main OS for one simple reason: I run a 2 monitor setup and under Win7 many DX11 games black out the second screen, and under 8.1 this isn't an issue.
In the end, 2D gaming under win8.1 has been a good experience. 3D gaming? Not so much.
[quote="bo3b"]Exposed123 and I were having a friendly debate about which is faster, Win 8.1 or Win 7. That was kind of derailing the Dragon Age thread, so let's move that discussion over here if no one minds.
Also, let's expand this discussion to how much effort you think we should spend on the different OSes.
For me, it's been a never ending time sink to try keep things working smoothly on different Oses, especially trying to help on one-off problems that people run into.
I know this community is small, but I want to understand the motivations here for running different OSes. Hopefully we are representative of the bigger world that uses HelixMod and 3Dmigoto fixes.
From my perspective, the only OS that makes any sense to run today is Win 7 x64. Anything else is asking for more trouble, and I already got more trouble than I know what to do with.
The primary reason is that NVidia's 3D drivers don't appear to work as well on 8.1 as 7, but maybe that's perception, not reality. Please add your experiences and especially any links to prove your case. I can do yet another web search to document 8.1 problems we ran into for 3D, but it would be better to get your input.
Please recognize that this is not a fanboy discussion of the different OSes. If you want to run a different OS because you just like it, that's totally OK. I'm specifically looking for the fewest problems, the fewest glitches, the fewest incompatibilities.
We have Windows 10 on the horizon, and I'm seriously considering that it might make sense for all of us fixers to solely concentrate upon Windows 7, and specifically ignore Win 8.1 and Win 10. (Win 8 is essentially the same as Win 7).
The reason to consider this bold step is to simplify our task, and save us time. Any time we spend reading about 8.1 problems and trying to work out solutions is time not spent on fixing another game, or not fixing another bug in 3Dmigoto. Everytime we get a 'works on my system, but not yours', and you are on a different OS, we have to do extra study, and comment, and discuss.
Let's keep it 3D focused. I don't think it's very relevant if an OS runs better in 2D. If it's dramatically better, we'll naturally take a look.
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not planning to make any rash moves without getting input. [/quote]
Hi Bob,
To answer your question, it would probably be best to focus on what the majority of users have installed (which is more than likely Windows 7), but also still consider users on Windows 8.1 (and 10) IF time permits because these user bases are only going to get larger, while Windows 7 slowly diminishes.
For myself, I built a Windows 8 computer last year for the sole purpose as a gaming HTPC. Windows 8.1 coupled with Classic Shell is actually a pretty good OS. I can use Apps like Netflix (which offers Super HD and 5.1, the website itself doesn't) and other media applications, and still run games as well.
If I had known there were quite a few issues with 3D compatibility, I probably would have went the dual boot option. As of right now I would have to upgrade my SSD for a dual boot, not something I would want to do unless I know for sure future fixes will not work under Windows 8.1.
If it does come to the point where Windows 10 is released, and only Windows 7 is supported for 3D fixes, then I would take that as a sign to move on. Either Tridef (which supports HDMI 2.0) or Occulus Rift.
Dragon Age Inquisition is 64-bit only. That alienated all 32-bit users. I know you said developers would not suddenly abandon Windows 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if the transition occured MUCH more quickly than we've seen before. If Bioware and other developers are willing to drop 32-bit support, it will not be surprising if at some point in the future, Windows 7 support is dropped altogether, especially considering NO NEW computers are shipping with Windows 7.
Perhaps we will need a new wrapper? Or maybe Nvidia will finally pick up the slack? With support leaning towards Occulust Rift by the day, including Nvidia themselves, I hate to say it but 3D Vision / 3DTV Play users like myself may be on borrowed time. It may only be a matter of time when a new driver release breaks everything wrapper related, and reverting to an older release becomes less feasible as time goes on.
But as of right now, I don't blame you for focusing just on Windows 7, if it helps avoids all the headaches that Windows 8.1 brings. Might as well enjoy what we can, as long as we can.
bo3b said:Exposed123 and I were having a friendly debate about which is faster, Win 8.1 or Win 7. That was kind of derailing the Dragon Age thread, so let's move that discussion over here if no one minds.
Also, let's expand this discussion to how much effort you think we should spend on the different OSes.
For me, it's been a never ending time sink to try keep things working smoothly on different Oses, especially trying to help on one-off problems that people run into.
I know this community is small, but I want to understand the motivations here for running different OSes. Hopefully we are representative of the bigger world that uses HelixMod and 3Dmigoto fixes.
From my perspective, the only OS that makes any sense to run today is Win 7 x64. Anything else is asking for more trouble, and I already got more trouble than I know what to do with.
The primary reason is that NVidia's 3D drivers don't appear to work as well on 8.1 as 7, but maybe that's perception, not reality. Please add your experiences and especially any links to prove your case. I can do yet another web search to document 8.1 problems we ran into for 3D, but it would be better to get your input.
Please recognize that this is not a fanboy discussion of the different OSes. If you want to run a different OS because you just like it, that's totally OK. I'm specifically looking for the fewest problems, the fewest glitches, the fewest incompatibilities.
We have Windows 10 on the horizon, and I'm seriously considering that it might make sense for all of us fixers to solely concentrate upon Windows 7, and specifically ignore Win 8.1 and Win 10. (Win 8 is essentially the same as Win 7).
The reason to consider this bold step is to simplify our task, and save us time. Any time we spend reading about 8.1 problems and trying to work out solutions is time not spent on fixing another game, or not fixing another bug in 3Dmigoto. Everytime we get a 'works on my system, but not yours', and you are on a different OS, we have to do extra study, and comment, and discuss.
Let's keep it 3D focused. I don't think it's very relevant if an OS runs better in 2D. If it's dramatically better, we'll naturally take a look.
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not planning to make any rash moves without getting input.
Hi Bob,
To answer your question, it would probably be best to focus on what the majority of users have installed (which is more than likely Windows 7), but also still consider users on Windows 8.1 (and 10) IF time permits because these user bases are only going to get larger, while Windows 7 slowly diminishes.
For myself, I built a Windows 8 computer last year for the sole purpose as a gaming HTPC. Windows 8.1 coupled with Classic Shell is actually a pretty good OS. I can use Apps like Netflix (which offers Super HD and 5.1, the website itself doesn't) and other media applications, and still run games as well.
If I had known there were quite a few issues with 3D compatibility, I probably would have went the dual boot option. As of right now I would have to upgrade my SSD for a dual boot, not something I would want to do unless I know for sure future fixes will not work under Windows 8.1.
If it does come to the point where Windows 10 is released, and only Windows 7 is supported for 3D fixes, then I would take that as a sign to move on. Either Tridef (which supports HDMI 2.0) or Occulus Rift.
Dragon Age Inquisition is 64-bit only. That alienated all 32-bit users. I know you said developers would not suddenly abandon Windows 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if the transition occured MUCH more quickly than we've seen before. If Bioware and other developers are willing to drop 32-bit support, it will not be surprising if at some point in the future, Windows 7 support is dropped altogether, especially considering NO NEW computers are shipping with Windows 7.
Perhaps we will need a new wrapper? Or maybe Nvidia will finally pick up the slack? With support leaning towards Occulust Rift by the day, including Nvidia themselves, I hate to say it but 3D Vision / 3DTV Play users like myself may be on borrowed time. It may only be a matter of time when a new driver release breaks everything wrapper related, and reverting to an older release becomes less feasible as time goes on.
But as of right now, I don't blame you for focusing just on Windows 7, if it helps avoids all the headaches that Windows 8.1 brings. Might as well enjoy what we can, as long as we can.
Windows 10, Geforce GTX 1080 x2 (SLI), Haswell Core i7, 8GB DDR3 2133Mhz memory, 65" LG 4k 3DTV
I've had enough with windows 8.1. Nothing but problems. Win 8 was relatively stable, but when I went to 8.1......
I'm actually going back to Win 7, and I hope that you focus your attention on Win 7. The amount of issues that windows 8.1 introduced such as micro stutters drove me back to win 7.
I've had enough with windows 8.1. Nothing but problems. Win 8 was relatively stable, but when I went to 8.1......
I'm actually going back to Win 7, and I hope that you focus your attention on Win 7. The amount of issues that windows 8.1 introduced such as micro stutters drove me back to win 7.
[quote="Kodijack"]Can only speak for myself of course, but that would be a NO GO for me. Beside that i personally like Win8(.1) (except metro), i don't see the reason in working on a system whose successor get a successor soon. And yes, Win7 was my favourite until Win8 came.
As for performance: i noticed no problems with 3DV on 8.1 that i didn't have with 7 too. Most benchmarks i've seen point towards 8>7 so i tend to say 3DV performs the same.[/quote]
OK, good to know.
Couple of things though- Win8 and Win8.1 are 100% different. You wrote that as if they are the same. From an API standpoint Win8 is the same Win7, and Win 8.1 is an outlier with the DXGI that blew up all wrappers, and introduced mouse lag. You see this with Dragon Age as well, it runs on Win 8, but not 8.1 with the fix.
With regard to performance, people keep saying 8.1 is faster, but it just isn't. Not sure how these sort of ideas get traction. The best benchmark tests I've seen were pointed out by Exposed123, and don't show any performance advantage, unless you want to be extremely charitable to 8.1.
[url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/788055/3d-vision/dragon-age-inquisition-/post/4405679/#4405679[/url]
Also, I'd like to be clear, this isn't about favorites. I don't have a favorite, I hate all OSes equally. The UI stinks on all of them in different ways, including MacOS.
I'm solely interested in what gives the optimal 3D experience. And part of that is not having to jack around for hours trying to get shit to work.
Kodijack said:Can only speak for myself of course, but that would be a NO GO for me. Beside that i personally like Win8(.1) (except metro), i don't see the reason in working on a system whose successor get a successor soon. And yes, Win7 was my favourite until Win8 came.
As for performance: i noticed no problems with 3DV on 8.1 that i didn't have with 7 too. Most benchmarks i've seen point towards 8>7 so i tend to say 3DV performs the same.
OK, good to know.
Couple of things though- Win8 and Win8.1 are 100% different. You wrote that as if they are the same. From an API standpoint Win8 is the same Win7, and Win 8.1 is an outlier with the DXGI that blew up all wrappers, and introduced mouse lag. You see this with Dragon Age as well, it runs on Win 8, but not 8.1 with the fix.
Also, I'd like to be clear, this isn't about favorites. I don't have a favorite, I hate all OSes equally. The UI stinks on all of them in different ways, including MacOS.
I'm solely interested in what gives the optimal 3D experience. And part of that is not having to jack around for hours trying to get shit to work.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="Exposed123"]Dragon Age Inquisition is 64-bit only. That alienated all 32-bit users. I know you said developers would not suddenly abandon Windows 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if the transition occured MUCH more quickly than we've seen before. If Bioware and other developers are willing to drop 32-bit support, it will not be surprising if at some point in the future, Windows 7 support is dropped altogether, especially considering NO NEW computers are shipping with Windows 7. [/quote]
The thing is, it's really all about the consoles. Always has been, always will be. Developers develop for PC as an afterthought, and if it's easy.
The consoles are more Win7 like than Win8.1 like. So a rapid movement to 8.1 by developers is just not going to happen as far as I can tell. If they decide that DX11.2 was worth making a switch, they would. So this conversation might be different if the console game devs switch.
But for x64- that was a clear win for everyone. But, the reason it happened was, you guessed it, consoles. The consoles are now x64, not x32, and so the easy path for development is to force x64 for PC releases, knowing full well that might lose them the 25% of people sticking with x32.
As far as I can tell with my limited future gazing abilities is that we PC gamers will continue to get hand-me-downs from the console world. All that talk about PC being first platform is just the usual marketing dribble. And Microsoft is going to make PC gaming a first class citizen with Win10. Yeah, sure. Marketing talk is cheap.
Exposed123 said:Dragon Age Inquisition is 64-bit only. That alienated all 32-bit users. I know you said developers would not suddenly abandon Windows 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if the transition occured MUCH more quickly than we've seen before. If Bioware and other developers are willing to drop 32-bit support, it will not be surprising if at some point in the future, Windows 7 support is dropped altogether, especially considering NO NEW computers are shipping with Windows 7.
The thing is, it's really all about the consoles. Always has been, always will be. Developers develop for PC as an afterthought, and if it's easy.
The consoles are more Win7 like than Win8.1 like. So a rapid movement to 8.1 by developers is just not going to happen as far as I can tell. If they decide that DX11.2 was worth making a switch, they would. So this conversation might be different if the console game devs switch.
But for x64- that was a clear win for everyone. But, the reason it happened was, you guessed it, consoles. The consoles are now x64, not x32, and so the easy path for development is to force x64 for PC releases, knowing full well that might lose them the 25% of people sticking with x32.
As far as I can tell with my limited future gazing abilities is that we PC gamers will continue to get hand-me-downs from the console world. All that talk about PC being first platform is just the usual marketing dribble. And Microsoft is going to make PC gaming a first class citizen with Win10. Yeah, sure. Marketing talk is cheap.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="snake4196"]Does WinXP(64bit) support 3DVision?[/quote]
No, too old. Was actually never supported by 3D Vision. Also Vista is no longer supported by 3D Vision.
The architectural shift from XP to Vista is what blew up the earlier 3D system. Not sure why they dropped Vista support, it's not that different from Win7.
snake4196 said:Does WinXP(64bit) support 3DVision?
No, too old. Was actually never supported by 3D Vision. Also Vista is no longer supported by 3D Vision.
The architectural shift from XP to Vista is what blew up the earlier 3D system. Not sure why they dropped Vista support, it's not that different from Win7.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
3D Vision is an amazing technology, abandoned by its own creators, largely unknown by the gamer community, impossible to monetise by gaming developers due to lack of interest.
It is kept alive only by the community of modders here, which is extremely small. These modders spend their own time and resources to fix the games, with no other compensation than the pleasure to play the game in 3D and to know they bring happiness to the other 3D gamers.
[b][u]Not one second should be spent on other Windows versions that 7.[/b][/u]
This is such a niche product, people. You need special monitors, cards, software, interests, patience, know-how, luck etc ... just to play in 3D. If Windows 7 is needed, this is just another requirement among all the others, due to the particular crappy state 3D Vision is in right now.
If a conversion to Win 10 (or even 8.1 in the meantime) can at some point be done, without additional hassle, then by all means, why not?
But until Nvidia, Occulus, developers, public interest, act of God , whatever, does not change this 3D stalemate, not one second of effort should be requested from the community, to make fixes/wrappers work on other OSs.
People particularly interested in this development should just jump in, and start their own area of development, in cross-OS adaptation. Like Helifax has been doing with 3D Surround and OpenGL conversion.
3D Vision is an amazing technology, abandoned by its own creators, largely unknown by the gamer community, impossible to monetise by gaming developers due to lack of interest.
It is kept alive only by the community of modders here, which is extremely small. These modders spend their own time and resources to fix the games, with no other compensation than the pleasure to play the game in 3D and to know they bring happiness to the other 3D gamers.
Not one second should be spent on other Windows versions that 7.
This is such a niche product, people. You need special monitors, cards, software, interests, patience, know-how, luck etc ... just to play in 3D. If Windows 7 is needed, this is just another requirement among all the others, due to the particular crappy state 3D Vision is in right now.
If a conversion to Win 10 (or even 8.1 in the meantime) can at some point be done, without additional hassle, then by all means, why not?
But until Nvidia, Occulus, developers, public interest, act of God , whatever, does not change this 3D stalemate, not one second of effort should be requested from the community, to make fixes/wrappers work on other OSs.
People particularly interested in this development should just jump in, and start their own area of development, in cross-OS adaptation. Like Helifax has been doing with 3D Surround and OpenGL conversion.
+1 to what Zappoloist said
It doesn't make sense with a limited resource pool to cater to people using 8.1 when they clearly have a choice to either switch to W7 or Dual Boot.
I also find it strange that there are 2 first time posters in the very start of this thread. I'm thinking 123 Shenanigans....
Also, let's expand this discussion to how much effort you think we should spend on the different OSes.
For me, it's been a never ending time sink to try keep things working smoothly on different Oses, especially trying to help on one-off problems that people run into.
I know this community is small, but I want to understand the motivations here for running different OSes. Hopefully we are representative of the bigger world that uses HelixMod and 3Dmigoto fixes.
From my perspective, the only OS that makes any sense to run today is Win 7 x64. Anything else is asking for more trouble, and I already got more trouble than I know what to do with.
The primary reason is that NVidia's 3D drivers don't appear to work as well on 8.1 as 7, but maybe that's perception, not reality. Please add your experiences and especially any links to prove your case. I can do yet another web search to document 8.1 problems we ran into for 3D, but it would be better to get your input.
Please recognize that this is not a fanboy discussion of the different OSes. If you want to run a different OS because you just like it, that's totally OK. I'm specifically looking for the fewest problems, the fewest glitches, the fewest incompatibilities.
We have Windows 10 on the horizon, and I'm seriously considering that it might make sense for all of us fixers to solely concentrate upon Windows 7, and specifically ignore Win 8.1 and Win 10. (Win 8 is essentially the same as Win 7).
The reason to consider this bold step is to simplify our task, and save us time. Any time we spend reading about 8.1 problems and trying to work out solutions is time not spent on fixing another game, or not fixing another bug in 3Dmigoto. Everytime we get a 'works on my system, but not yours', and you are on a different OS, we have to do extra study, and comment, and discuss.
Let's keep it 3D focused. I don't think it's very relevant if an OS runs better in 2D. If it's dramatically better, we'll naturally take a look.
Is it reasonable to request that people gaming in 3D Vision just use Win7 x64 for their game machine? Dual boot if needed?
Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not planning to make any rash moves without getting input.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
If someone wanted to continue to run 8.1 or 10, that would be completely fine, it just would be incumbent upon them to fix and research any problems they have. It's all open source, all fixes are public.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Using a stable although rapidly aging driver, has so far helped make the choice of a preferential OS a non-issue in my experience with SLI scaling, true S3D and PhysX capabilities all pretty much intact on both systems. I've most probably been lucky so far with the games that I've preferred to play up until now, but if the Witcher 3 doesn't work well in 3D this coming May, it'll be time for a major rethink. With all else being equal, I'd be surprised if I couldn't get the Witcher 3 working just as well on 8.1 as I could on Win 7.
Intel Core i7 4770k @ 4.4Ghz, 3x GTX Titan, 16GB Tactical Tracer LED, CPU/GPU Dual-Loop Water-Cooled - Driver 331.82, DX11.0
Can only speak for myself of course, but that would be a NO GO for me. Beside that i personally like Win8(.1) (except metro), i don't see the reason in working on a system whose successor get a successor soon. And yes, Win7 was my favourite until Win8 came.
As for performance: i noticed no problems with 3DV on 8.1 that i didn't have with 7 too. Most benchmarks i've seen point towards 8>7 so i tend to say 3DV performs the same.
I can't say that I've noticed any better gaming performance with 8.1, I moved to it simply because it was available and I wanted to try something new.
However, I don't think I would want to go back to Windows 7 as a main OS for one simple reason: I run a 2 monitor setup and under Win7 many DX11 games black out the second screen, and under 8.1 this isn't an issue.
In the end, 2D gaming under win8.1 has been a good experience. 3D gaming? Not so much.
Hi Bob,
To answer your question, it would probably be best to focus on what the majority of users have installed (which is more than likely Windows 7), but also still consider users on Windows 8.1 (and 10) IF time permits because these user bases are only going to get larger, while Windows 7 slowly diminishes.
For myself, I built a Windows 8 computer last year for the sole purpose as a gaming HTPC. Windows 8.1 coupled with Classic Shell is actually a pretty good OS. I can use Apps like Netflix (which offers Super HD and 5.1, the website itself doesn't) and other media applications, and still run games as well.
If I had known there were quite a few issues with 3D compatibility, I probably would have went the dual boot option. As of right now I would have to upgrade my SSD for a dual boot, not something I would want to do unless I know for sure future fixes will not work under Windows 8.1.
If it does come to the point where Windows 10 is released, and only Windows 7 is supported for 3D fixes, then I would take that as a sign to move on. Either Tridef (which supports HDMI 2.0) or Occulus Rift.
Dragon Age Inquisition is 64-bit only. That alienated all 32-bit users. I know you said developers would not suddenly abandon Windows 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if the transition occured MUCH more quickly than we've seen before. If Bioware and other developers are willing to drop 32-bit support, it will not be surprising if at some point in the future, Windows 7 support is dropped altogether, especially considering NO NEW computers are shipping with Windows 7.
Perhaps we will need a new wrapper? Or maybe Nvidia will finally pick up the slack? With support leaning towards Occulust Rift by the day, including Nvidia themselves, I hate to say it but 3D Vision / 3DTV Play users like myself may be on borrowed time. It may only be a matter of time when a new driver release breaks everything wrapper related, and reverting to an older release becomes less feasible as time goes on.
But as of right now, I don't blame you for focusing just on Windows 7, if it helps avoids all the headaches that Windows 8.1 brings. Might as well enjoy what we can, as long as we can.
Windows 10, Geforce GTX 1080 x2 (SLI), Haswell Core i7, 8GB DDR3 2133Mhz memory, 65" LG 4k 3DTV
I'm actually going back to Win 7, and I hope that you focus your attention on Win 7. The amount of issues that windows 8.1 introduced such as micro stutters drove me back to win 7.
OK, good to know.
Couple of things though- Win8 and Win8.1 are 100% different. You wrote that as if they are the same. From an API standpoint Win8 is the same Win7, and Win 8.1 is an outlier with the DXGI that blew up all wrappers, and introduced mouse lag. You see this with Dragon Age as well, it runs on Win 8, but not 8.1 with the fix.
With regard to performance, people keep saying 8.1 is faster, but it just isn't. Not sure how these sort of ideas get traction. The best benchmark tests I've seen were pointed out by Exposed123, and don't show any performance advantage, unless you want to be extremely charitable to 8.1.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/788055/3d-vision/dragon-age-inquisition-/post/4405679/#4405679
Also, I'd like to be clear, this isn't about favorites. I don't have a favorite, I hate all OSes equally. The UI stinks on all of them in different ways, including MacOS.
I'm solely interested in what gives the optimal 3D experience. And part of that is not having to jack around for hours trying to get shit to work.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
The thing is, it's really all about the consoles. Always has been, always will be. Developers develop for PC as an afterthought, and if it's easy.
The consoles are more Win7 like than Win8.1 like. So a rapid movement to 8.1 by developers is just not going to happen as far as I can tell. If they decide that DX11.2 was worth making a switch, they would. So this conversation might be different if the console game devs switch.
But for x64- that was a clear win for everyone. But, the reason it happened was, you guessed it, consoles. The consoles are now x64, not x32, and so the easy path for development is to force x64 for PC releases, knowing full well that might lose them the 25% of people sticking with x32.
As far as I can tell with my limited future gazing abilities is that we PC gamers will continue to get hand-me-downs from the console world. All that talk about PC being first platform is just the usual marketing dribble. And Microsoft is going to make PC gaming a first class citizen with Win10. Yeah, sure. Marketing talk is cheap.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
No, too old. Was actually never supported by 3D Vision. Also Vista is no longer supported by 3D Vision.
The architectural shift from XP to Vista is what blew up the earlier 3D system. Not sure why they dropped Vista support, it's not that different from Win7.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
Win 7 64bit ; i7 4790K ; GTX 980 ASUS OC ;10 gb ram ; 353.06 ; 42" edid 3Dvision passive interleaved screen
It is kept alive only by the community of modders here, which is extremely small. These modders spend their own time and resources to fix the games, with no other compensation than the pleasure to play the game in 3D and to know they bring happiness to the other 3D gamers.
Not one second should be spent on other Windows versions that 7.
This is such a niche product, people. You need special monitors, cards, software, interests, patience, know-how, luck etc ... just to play in 3D. If Windows 7 is needed, this is just another requirement among all the others, due to the particular crappy state 3D Vision is in right now.
If a conversion to Win 10 (or even 8.1 in the meantime) can at some point be done, without additional hassle, then by all means, why not?
But until Nvidia, Occulus, developers, public interest, act of God , whatever, does not change this 3D stalemate, not one second of effort should be requested from the community, to make fixes/wrappers work on other OSs.
People particularly interested in this development should just jump in, and start their own area of development, in cross-OS adaptation. Like Helifax has been doing with 3D Surround and OpenGL conversion.
It doesn't make sense with a limited resource pool to cater to people using 8.1 when they clearly have a choice to either switch to W7 or Dual Boot.
I also find it strange that there are 2 first time posters in the very start of this thread. I'm thinking 123 Shenanigans....