OK, I'm hoping some boffin on here will be able to help me.
I have a PC with a 980ti connected to my marantz Pre Pro which is connected to 11 active speakers for a Dolby atmos setup.
When I play a game on the Xbox or Wii everything is fine.
When I watch a film on the pc everything is fine.
When I play a game on PC there is a huge sound like a wasp crossed with a miniature quad bike.
If I turn V sync on the noise pretty much disappears.
I've had this problem before with my old PCI Asus Xonar soundcard in an old PC, but solved it by using a USB soundcard with balanced XLR outputs.
Now I have the marantz amp (also balanced outputs) the noise has come back.
After researching it seems lots of people have had problems with nvidia cards and ground loops/interference over the years.
I've read people have solved it by buying an AMD card.
I don't really want to do this, but I will do if I have to as this noise is driving me crazy!
Is it nvidia cutting corners? Nvidia design fault?
Should I buy a UPS or just lift the ground on my PC and just play games with rubber gloves on?
OK, I'm hoping some boffin on here will be able to help me.
I have a PC with a 980ti connected to my marantz Pre Pro which is connected to 11 active speakers for a Dolby atmos setup.
When I play a game on the Xbox or Wii everything is fine.
When I watch a film on the pc everything is fine.
When I play a game on PC there is a huge sound like a wasp crossed with a miniature quad bike.
If I turn V sync on the noise pretty much disappears.
I've had this problem before with my old PCI Asus Xonar soundcard in an old PC, but solved it by using a USB soundcard with balanced XLR outputs.
Now I have the marantz amp (also balanced outputs) the noise has come back.
After researching it seems lots of people have had problems with nvidia cards and ground loops/interference over the years.
I've read people have solved it by buying an AMD card.
I don't really want to do this, but I will do if I have to as this noise is driving me crazy!
Is it nvidia cutting corners? Nvidia design fault?
Should I buy a UPS or just lift the ground on my PC and just play games with rubber gloves on?
It could be dirty power., are you using a decent power conditioner? I'd think that you'd have one of those high dollar Furrman's :P
If you buy a UPS, be sure to get one with pure sine wave. Simulated sine waves will not keep the PC on during a power failure if you have a active pfc power supply.
It could be dirty power., are you using a decent power conditioner? I'd think that you'd have one of those high dollar Furrman's :P
If you buy a UPS, be sure to get one with pure sine wave. Simulated sine waves will not keep the PC on during a power failure if you have a active pfc power supply.
I have a ups that I tried plugging the pc and amp into but it's still the same. I can't remember what make it is but it is pure sinewave.
I'm using 11 active speakers all connected with balanced cables in a Dolby atmos setup.
I've tried turning all over clocks off, disabling C states and turbo boost etc on the cpu and gpu.
As soon as the gfx card is underload the sound starts. Alt tabbing out stops the noise but it always comes back." When you go back into the game.
I don't see how it could be a ground loop. I'm using all balances outputs on the amp (xlr) and HDMI inputs from the gfx card Wii U and Xbox.
The Xbox and Wii U don't make a single sound so it's coming from the PC.
My RME fireface didn't make these noises through the balanced outputs though but that doesn't support atmos.
Is it the marantz av7702 mk2 that doesn't have true balanced outputs? (Even though it's advertised as doing so)
Is it interference from the water pump in the Pc?
I've been reading about issues with electro magnetic interference with nvidia cards dating back 10 years.
My 980ti is watercooled. Does the standard gpu case (the bit you take off with the fan in when you put the water block on) actually work to stop interference?
By me putting the water block on remove the shielding?
My case is really small and was a bitch to build. Don't really want to strip it back down but will if I have to.
I'll make a video showing the problem.
This isn't a subtle sound btw. It's as loud as the game audio.
When you turn VSync off you can hear it step up in pitch 3 or 4 times like an old racing car game from the 80's changing gear.
I'll see if it does it with the Intel onboard GPU.
I intend to get to the bottom of this.
I'm convinced it's the gfx card though. There's literally not much else it could be apart from the PSU.
I have a ups that I tried plugging the pc and amp into but it's still the same. I can't remember what make it is but it is pure sinewave.
I'm using 11 active speakers all connected with balanced cables in a Dolby atmos setup.
I've tried turning all over clocks off, disabling C states and turbo boost etc on the cpu and gpu.
As soon as the gfx card is underload the sound starts. Alt tabbing out stops the noise but it always comes back." When you go back into the game.
I don't see how it could be a ground loop. I'm using all balances outputs on the amp (xlr) and HDMI inputs from the gfx card Wii U and Xbox.
The Xbox and Wii U don't make a single sound so it's coming from the PC.
My RME fireface didn't make these noises through the balanced outputs though but that doesn't support atmos.
Is it the marantz av7702 mk2 that doesn't have true balanced outputs? (Even though it's advertised as doing so)
Is it interference from the water pump in the Pc?
I've been reading about issues with electro magnetic interference with nvidia cards dating back 10 years.
My 980ti is watercooled. Does the standard gpu case (the bit you take off with the fan in when you put the water block on) actually work to stop interference?
By me putting the water block on remove the shielding?
My case is really small and was a bitch to build. Don't really want to strip it back down but will if I have to.
I'll make a video showing the problem.
This isn't a subtle sound btw. It's as loud as the game audio.
When you turn VSync off you can hear it step up in pitch 3 or 4 times like an old racing car game from the 80's changing gear.
I'll see if it does it with the Intel onboard GPU.
I intend to get to the bottom of this.
I'm convinced it's the gfx card though. There's literally not much else it could be apart from the PSU.
Just tried the onboard graphics (Intel 4770k) and there was no noise.
This is using the same cables and everything. All I did was plug the hdmi cable into the motherboard hdmi instead of the nvidia hdmi port and loaded alien isolation.
It is definitely coming from the nvidia card. There is no doubt about it.
I left the 980ti in place as it is water cooled with solid acrylic pipes so is a nightmare to 'whip out'
Is the 980ti faulty or is it a inherent design fault?
Any suggestions?
Would putting electrical tape around the hdmi port on the 980ti help?
Just tried the onboard graphics (Intel 4770k) and there was no noise.
This is using the same cables and everything. All I did was plug the hdmi cable into the motherboard hdmi instead of the nvidia hdmi port and loaded alien isolation.
It is definitely coming from the nvidia card. There is no doubt about it.
I left the 980ti in place as it is water cooled with solid acrylic pipes so is a nightmare to 'whip out'
Is the 980ti faulty or is it a inherent design fault?
Any suggestions?
Would putting electrical tape around the hdmi port on the 980ti help?
It's a design fault and related to coil whine issue IMO. My 980 has the same problem as yours and also have mild coil whine. Some 9xx series cards maybe better, but I believe at least half of the cards has serious ground noise and coil whine issue.
It's a design fault and related to coil whine issue IMO. My 980 has the same problem as yours and also have mild coil whine. Some 9xx series cards maybe better, but I believe at least half of the cards has serious ground noise and coil whine issue.
Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z
Try re-seating the card?
Try a different PCI-e 16x slot?
If the PS fan intake is on the bottom, tilt your PC and peak at the capacitors for bloated or popped tops and other stuff for obvious damage.
It could be coil whine related? Typically this will happen with certain power supplies more so than others. I read something about it quite awhile back, I think single rail eliminated it, double rails were the culprit or vice versa?
Look on youtube and see if coil whine is what you are hearing at load.
There's also coil whine with runaway frames, which is somewhat different. This will happen sometimes when starting a game and the menu does not have a frame rate limit, it runs at an extreme framerate like 4000FPS , but it's audible from the case with no sound turned on or connected.
If the PS fan intake is on the bottom, tilt your PC and peak at the capacitors for bloated or popped tops and other stuff for obvious damage.
It could be coil whine related? Typically this will happen with certain power supplies more so than others. I read something about it quite awhile back, I think single rail eliminated it, double rails were the culprit or vice versa?
Look on youtube and see if coil whine is what you are hearing at load.
There's also coil whine with runaway frames, which is somewhat different. This will happen sometimes when starting a game and the menu does not have a frame rate limit, it runs at an extreme framerate like 4000FPS , but it's audible from the case with no sound turned on or connected.
For some reason that output should be shielded (and I think it is). However I think if you do some EMC testing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility, most likely you will see that when the GPU runs and begins to be stressed out, it will reach the upper level of acceptable electromagnetism.
Now this is FINE! When they do the EMC Testing on the GPU they don't do it with regards to Audio Equipment EMC (where the intervals and standard is different).
I believe because of this, you get that interference... :(
What you can do, to test this theory, is to limit the POWER on the GPU to something like 60% and see if it still behaves the same;)
("Coil wine" is a totally different problem and it has to do with the ACTUAL components - coils - that resonate and "wine" at certain frequencies - Is more of a MFG "Impurity" - due to their very tiny size - then anything else.)
Now I believe that that is a digital output right? (I am not that familiar with the Dolby Atmos) What you can do is to use a filter (somewhere). At least this is what is still used for analogue signals and audio;)
Can you check that the interference is produces by the Amplifier and not the speakers? (Use a headset and see if you hear the buzzing there as well)
For some reason that output should be shielded (and I think it is). However I think if you do some EMC testing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility, most likely you will see that when the GPU runs and begins to be stressed out, it will reach the upper level of acceptable electromagnetism.
Now this is FINE! When they do the EMC Testing on the GPU they don't do it with regards to Audio Equipment EMC (where the intervals and standard is different).
I believe because of this, you get that interference... :(
What you can do, to test this theory, is to limit the POWER on the GPU to something like 60% and see if it still behaves the same;)
("Coil wine" is a totally different problem and it has to do with the ACTUAL components - coils - that resonate and "wine" at certain frequencies - Is more of a MFG "Impurity" - due to their very tiny size - then anything else.)
Now I believe that that is a digital output right? (I am not that familiar with the Dolby Atmos) What you can do is to use a filter (somewhere). At least this is what is still used for analogue signals and audio;)
Can you check that the interference is produces by the Amplifier and not the speakers? (Use a headset and see if you hear the buzzing there as well)
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
Thanks for the replies everyone.
As I said earlier the sound isn't there with the onboard graphics chip doing the gfx and sound. This is still with the nvidia card in the machine but obviously not doing anything.
I tried going out of the nvidia HDMI into the projector directly. Then connected my onboard Intel GPU to the amp and assigned that as the primary sound device.
I then loaded alien isolation in anticipation. "Have I solved it?" I thought.....
Nope. As soon as the gfx card boosts it sounds like a wasp riding a minature quad bike.
I'm going to take all the water blocks/pumps etc out of the PC go back to air cooling. I'll try it with the motherboard on a cardboard box out of the case as well.
If it still makes the noise it's going back! I'll get a PS4 pro and only use a PC for movies and 1sr person shooters (on my monitor with headphones)
I can't believe I paid more for balanced audio outputs on this pre pro just for nvidia to cut corners on their shielding making it redundant.
This is what caused me to upgrade my old Asus Xonar soundcard to an RME fireface (which didn't hum by the way) bit that doesn't have atmos!
I might try and build a graphics card faraday cage.......or try AMD.
That's about the only options left, unless somebody else has any suggestions?
As I said earlier the sound isn't there with the onboard graphics chip doing the gfx and sound. This is still with the nvidia card in the machine but obviously not doing anything.
I tried going out of the nvidia HDMI into the projector directly. Then connected my onboard Intel GPU to the amp and assigned that as the primary sound device.
I then loaded alien isolation in anticipation. "Have I solved it?" I thought.....
Nope. As soon as the gfx card boosts it sounds like a wasp riding a minature quad bike.
I'm going to take all the water blocks/pumps etc out of the PC go back to air cooling. I'll try it with the motherboard on a cardboard box out of the case as well.
If it still makes the noise it's going back! I'll get a PS4 pro and only use a PC for movies and 1sr person shooters (on my monitor with headphones)
I can't believe I paid more for balanced audio outputs on this pre pro just for nvidia to cut corners on their shielding making it redundant.
This is what caused me to upgrade my old Asus Xonar soundcard to an RME fireface (which didn't hum by the way) bit that doesn't have atmos!
I might try and build a graphics card faraday cage.......or try AMD.
That's about the only options left, unless somebody else has any suggestions?
The easiest thing would be to use a ground loop isolator:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AV-Link-Ground-Loop-Isolator/dp/B000NVWB9O
I am unclear how you have connected things. Can you make a couple of diagrams?
For example, for me, it's:
Motherboard PCIe x1 slot --> Sound Blaster ZxR --> phono cables to Rotel 6 channel amplifier --> 5.1 speakers.
Sound Blaster ZxR is sandwiched in between 2 overclocked 1080s at 125% power limit with an HB SLi bridge on top even - I have never experienced such problems.
Sound Blaster ZxR is sandwiched in between 2 overclocked 1080s at 125% power limit with an HB SLi bridge on top even - I have never experienced such problems.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
OK, first things first. Whenever people are trying to solve a problem, you need to do it methodically, not take random guesses and keep trying stuff. Nearly everyone uses the random guessing approach, and it's a bad approach. Learn how to properly troubleshoot, and your life will be much better.
GibsonRed here has done an extremely good step of troubleshooting, not guessing.
Guessing is: Ground loop, try AMD, coil whine, PSU. Troubleshooting is narrowing down the possibilities by targeted experiments. Guesses are OK to start the process for troubleshooting, but do it in a directed fashion to rule them out, not randomly try stuff. Randomly try stuff includes reinstalling the OS, trying new drivers, unplug USB cords. It's possible to stumble on answers, but using logic and reasoning is a much more powerful technique.
So, Ground loop. Not a terrible guess, except that ground is [i]always[/i] 60 Hz hum. His description does not sound at all like 60 Hz hum.
UPS test is not a valid test for ground loop, because it's still a grounded box.
If you want to actually test ground loop, you'd need to plug the Marantz into the same circuit as the computer, so they use the exact same ground. Probably not worth the hassle.
Try AMD. No, this is just a shot in the dark based on internet reading. Maybe it randomly fixes the problem, but causes a raft of other problems, like not being able to play in 3D. Even if it works, it's a poor solution.
Coil whine. Maybe, but pretty unlikely. Coil whine is the coil/choke/inductor in the circuit vibrating at an audible frequency. True coil whine doesn't typically come across the audio, it's heard in the ambient air.
Maybe it pollutes the power supply, maybe pollutes the audio channel, but is pretty rare. Pretty unlikely, because it sounds like it's a very loud noise, and coil whine is more subtle.
Possibly does suggest that the PSU is not doing a quality job of filtering the power. If it were getting feedback, or allowing the power to sag enough at frequency, that could show up as audio noise.
PSU is weak. Maybe, but also unlikely. What is the brand, and how old is it? How is the audio generated, and would it be susceptible to power problems?
Back to the extremely good test case- using onboard video.
That is a great troubleshooting, because it narrows down the possibilities from random to specific.
In that case, the same PSU is used, the same audio, the same ground, the Marantz amp, the same wiring to the amp. That rules out a lot of pieces and heads toward an answer.
Can't be a ground loop, can't be the Marantz, can't be the wires to the amp.
Can still be PSU, because the PSU is not as stressed for onboard video. Can still be audio card getting power drop outs or contamination.
But clearly- it's video card related somehow. Either by power draw, or the card itself.
For the card itself, I'd be pretty surprised if NVidia cards have this problem in general. Maybe, but their hardware specs are actually very good.
Another troubleshoot test would be to swap video cards with another high power NVidia card of some form. Can be older, but should still be full power.
My best guess based on the info provided is the PSU is failing somehow.
To troubleshoot more, we need more details about your system, that would be really, really helpful as your forum signature, hint, hint.
OK, first things first. Whenever people are trying to solve a problem, you need to do it methodically, not take random guesses and keep trying stuff. Nearly everyone uses the random guessing approach, and it's a bad approach. Learn how to properly troubleshoot, and your life will be much better.
GibsonRed here has done an extremely good step of troubleshooting, not guessing.
Guessing is: Ground loop, try AMD, coil whine, PSU. Troubleshooting is narrowing down the possibilities by targeted experiments. Guesses are OK to start the process for troubleshooting, but do it in a directed fashion to rule them out, not randomly try stuff. Randomly try stuff includes reinstalling the OS, trying new drivers, unplug USB cords. It's possible to stumble on answers, but using logic and reasoning is a much more powerful technique.
So, Ground loop. Not a terrible guess, except that ground is always 60 Hz hum. His description does not sound at all like 60 Hz hum.
UPS test is not a valid test for ground loop, because it's still a grounded box.
If you want to actually test ground loop, you'd need to plug the Marantz into the same circuit as the computer, so they use the exact same ground. Probably not worth the hassle.
Try AMD. No, this is just a shot in the dark based on internet reading. Maybe it randomly fixes the problem, but causes a raft of other problems, like not being able to play in 3D. Even if it works, it's a poor solution.
Coil whine. Maybe, but pretty unlikely. Coil whine is the coil/choke/inductor in the circuit vibrating at an audible frequency. True coil whine doesn't typically come across the audio, it's heard in the ambient air.
Maybe it pollutes the power supply, maybe pollutes the audio channel, but is pretty rare. Pretty unlikely, because it sounds like it's a very loud noise, and coil whine is more subtle.
Possibly does suggest that the PSU is not doing a quality job of filtering the power. If it were getting feedback, or allowing the power to sag enough at frequency, that could show up as audio noise.
PSU is weak. Maybe, but also unlikely. What is the brand, and how old is it? How is the audio generated, and would it be susceptible to power problems?
Back to the extremely good test case- using onboard video.
That is a great troubleshooting, because it narrows down the possibilities from random to specific.
In that case, the same PSU is used, the same audio, the same ground, the Marantz amp, the same wiring to the amp. That rules out a lot of pieces and heads toward an answer.
Can't be a ground loop, can't be the Marantz, can't be the wires to the amp.
Can still be PSU, because the PSU is not as stressed for onboard video. Can still be audio card getting power drop outs or contamination.
But clearly- it's video card related somehow. Either by power draw, or the card itself.
For the card itself, I'd be pretty surprised if NVidia cards have this problem in general. Maybe, but their hardware specs are actually very good.
Another troubleshoot test would be to swap video cards with another high power NVidia card of some form. Can be older, but should still be full power.
My best guess based on the info provided is the PSU is failing somehow.
To troubleshoot more, we need more details about your system, that would be really, really helpful as your forum signature, hint, hint.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
OK. I tired the DVI to HDMI cable but still had noise.
I tired reseating the card but that didn't work either.
I've read that the waterblock can cause coil whine, especially the back plate, if it's too tight, it bends the board slightly.
I'll be trying taking all the water cooling out later today to test more.
Here's a video so you can hear it....
https://youtu.be/UiyJlxChcG4
I'm going out of the 980ti to the marantz av7702mk2 over HDMI. The XLR out of the marantz av7702mk2 to 11 active speakers (3x Adam A77X's, 4X Mackie MR5, 4X Mackie CR5's) video out of the amp into a Panasonic ptat-6000e projector.
Also DisplayPort from the pc to a acer x34a Gsync monitor.
I have an Asus ROG Impact VII Z97 motherboard, Intel 4770K cpu with full EK motherboard waterblock, 16GB RAM, EVGA 980ti with EK waterblock, EK pump, Superflower PSU.
I'm about to take all the waterblocks and pump/rads out and go back to air.
Any suggestions appreciated!
Just changing the clock speed in precisionX changes the Audible pitch!
I tired plugging the amp, and pc into the same outlet. Even tired it in the UPS but it's still the same.....buzzzzzzzzz
OK. I tired the DVI to HDMI cable but still had noise.
I tired reseating the card but that didn't work either.
I've read that the waterblock can cause coil whine, especially the back plate, if it's too tight, it bends the board slightly.
I'll be trying taking all the water cooling out later today to test more.
I'm going out of the 980ti to the marantz av7702mk2 over HDMI. The XLR out of the marantz av7702mk2 to 11 active speakers (3x Adam A77X's, 4X Mackie MR5, 4X Mackie CR5's) video out of the amp into a Panasonic ptat-6000e projector.
Also DisplayPort from the pc to a acer x34a Gsync monitor.
I have an Asus ROG Impact VII Z97 motherboard, Intel 4770K cpu with full EK motherboard waterblock, 16GB RAM, EVGA 980ti with EK waterblock, EK pump, Superflower PSU.
I'm about to take all the waterblocks and pump/rads out and go back to air.
Any suggestions appreciated!
Just changing the clock speed in precisionX changes the Audible pitch!
I tired plugging the amp, and pc into the same outlet. Even tired it in the UPS but it's still the same.....buzzzzzzzzz
[quote="GibsonRed"]OK. I tired the DVI to HDMI cable but still had noise.
I tired reseating the card but that didn't work either.
I've read that the waterblock can cause coil whine, especially the back plate, if it's too tight, it bends the board slightly.
I'll be trying taking all the water cooling out later today to test more.
Here's a video so you can hear it....
https://youtu.be/UiyJlxChcG4
I'm going out of the 980ti to the marantz av7702mk2 over HDMI. The XLR out of the marantz av7702mk2 to 11 active speakers (3x Adam A77X's, 4X Mackie MR5, 4X Mackie CR5's) video out of the amp into a Panasonic ptat-6000e projector.
Also DisplayPort from the pc to a acer x34a Gsync monitor.
I have an Asus ROG Impact VII Z97 motherboard, Intel 4770K cpu with full EK motherboard waterblock, 16GB RAM, EVGA 980ti with EK waterblock, EK pump, Superflower PSU.
I'm about to take all the waterblocks and pump/rads out and go back to air.
Any suggestions appreciated!
Just changing the clock speed in precisionX changes the Audible pitch!
I tired plugging the amp, and pc into the same outlet. Even tired it in the UPS but it's still the same.....buzzzzzzzzz[/quote]
Did you try out what I suggested earlier?
Put the GPU Power Limit down to 58%. This way the GPU will never get stressed out and ofc the PSU will NOT be forced to deliver the full Wattage required for the 980Ti to work at boost clocks.
What this shows:
- If the sound is still there, the GPU most likely has something funky going on
- If the sound is not there, you have 2 options:
a. Try a different GPU with a TPD equivalent to the 980Ti (250W). The 780ti is one of them, the GTX 590 was the same, a lot of older GPUs are the same;) make sure that you stress out the GPU (full 99% usage).
b. If the problem with a different GPU is the same, then try a different PSU.
This is how I would attack the problem.
PS:
Having the waterblocks on the components will definitely not affect this. What happens if you plug in Stereo Headset into the Marantz? can you still hear the "parasites" ?
GibsonRed said:OK. I tired the DVI to HDMI cable but still had noise.
I tired reseating the card but that didn't work either.
I've read that the waterblock can cause coil whine, especially the back plate, if it's too tight, it bends the board slightly.
I'll be trying taking all the water cooling out later today to test more.
I'm going out of the 980ti to the marantz av7702mk2 over HDMI. The XLR out of the marantz av7702mk2 to 11 active speakers (3x Adam A77X's, 4X Mackie MR5, 4X Mackie CR5's) video out of the amp into a Panasonic ptat-6000e projector.
Also DisplayPort from the pc to a acer x34a Gsync monitor.
I have an Asus ROG Impact VII Z97 motherboard, Intel 4770K cpu with full EK motherboard waterblock, 16GB RAM, EVGA 980ti with EK waterblock, EK pump, Superflower PSU.
I'm about to take all the waterblocks and pump/rads out and go back to air.
Any suggestions appreciated!
Just changing the clock speed in precisionX changes the Audible pitch!
I tired plugging the amp, and pc into the same outlet. Even tired it in the UPS but it's still the same.....buzzzzzzzzz
Did you try out what I suggested earlier?
Put the GPU Power Limit down to 58%. This way the GPU will never get stressed out and ofc the PSU will NOT be forced to deliver the full Wattage required for the 980Ti to work at boost clocks.
What this shows:
- If the sound is still there, the GPU most likely has something funky going on
- If the sound is not there, you have 2 options:
a. Try a different GPU with a TPD equivalent to the 980Ti (250W). The 780ti is one of them, the GTX 590 was the same, a lot of older GPUs are the same;) make sure that you stress out the GPU (full 99% usage).
b. If the problem with a different GPU is the same, then try a different PSU.
This is how I would attack the problem.
PS:
Having the waterblocks on the components will definitely not affect this. What happens if you plug in Stereo Headset into the Marantz? can you still hear the "parasites" ?
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
Thanks for the advice.
I've taken the gfx card out and kept the water loop on the cpu. (Couldn't find the aircooler for it)
Can't find the Alan key to get the waterblock off either!
My mates coming round with an aircooled 680 so I'll try that and see if the noise is still there.
If I clock down the card in precision X the noise drops in pitch and is slightly quieter but still there.
If I enable VSync it turns the noise down (as in the video in my last post)
Also in resident evil 7 there is a max fps setting. Changing this to 60hz reduces the hum and setting it to 30hz reduces the hum even more.
It is definitely associated with GPU clock speed.
I'll get back on here later after I've tried the 680.
It doesn't hum on the acer x34a monitor over DisplayPort.
I'll also try headphones later but doubt it will be coming through those.
If doesn't come through the headphones it more than likely a ground loop.
Thanks for the advice.
I've taken the gfx card out and kept the water loop on the cpu. (Couldn't find the aircooler for it)
Can't find the Alan key to get the waterblock off either!
My mates coming round with an aircooled 680 so I'll try that and see if the noise is still there.
If I clock down the card in precision X the noise drops in pitch and is slightly quieter but still there.
If I enable VSync it turns the noise down (as in the video in my last post)
Also in resident evil 7 there is a max fps setting. Changing this to 60hz reduces the hum and setting it to 30hz reduces the hum even more.
It is definitely associated with GPU clock speed.
I'll get back on here later after I've tried the 680.
It doesn't hum on the acer x34a monitor over DisplayPort.
I'll also try headphones later but doubt it will be coming through those.
If doesn't come through the headphones it more than likely a ground loop.
And to bo3b and helifax's point, when you turn vsync on, your video card is not going to run at a higher power level. When you turn vsync off, the video card is going to increase in power since it is producing more fps. The other thing you have to remember is that the onboard video is more than likely not pulling of the same power rails since it is using the motherboard connector for power. Your in slot card would be though since it uses a different set of 6 or 8 pin connectors coming off the psu.
I personally haven't ever experienced this with any pc that I have ever built. But I have certainly experienced it with other components that I have had in the past. One thing I can say for sure is that you will almost never see this in digital lines, cause well, they are digital not analog. You have already ruled out your anything outside your pc as the problem as it works fine with onboard audio inside the same pc (bo3b was correct, that was a great test). Without seeing your system I am also leaning toward the psu as the source of your headache. And it maybe just that specific 12 volt rail for the video card power output (6 or 8 pin) connectors.
my 2 cents
And to bo3b and helifax's point, when you turn vsync on, your video card is not going to run at a higher power level. When you turn vsync off, the video card is going to increase in power since it is producing more fps. The other thing you have to remember is that the onboard video is more than likely not pulling of the same power rails since it is using the motherboard connector for power. Your in slot card would be though since it uses a different set of 6 or 8 pin connectors coming off the psu.
I personally haven't ever experienced this with any pc that I have ever built. But I have certainly experienced it with other components that I have had in the past. One thing I can say for sure is that you will almost never see this in digital lines, cause well, they are digital not analog. You have already ruled out your anything outside your pc as the problem as it works fine with onboard audio inside the same pc (bo3b was correct, that was a great test). Without seeing your system I am also leaning toward the psu as the source of your headache. And it maybe just that specific 12 volt rail for the video card power output (6 or 8 pin) connectors.
my 2 cents
Intel 7700k @ 4.2Ghz / 32GB @ 3200
Asus Z270 / 2 x Evga 1070
4 x Samsung 840 Raid 0
4 x Samsung 850 Pro Raid 0
Samsung 950 Pro
Epson 5040UB 3DTVPlay
I have a PC with a 980ti connected to my marantz Pre Pro which is connected to 11 active speakers for a Dolby atmos setup.
When I play a game on the Xbox or Wii everything is fine.
When I watch a film on the pc everything is fine.
When I play a game on PC there is a huge sound like a wasp crossed with a miniature quad bike.
If I turn V sync on the noise pretty much disappears.
I've had this problem before with my old PCI Asus Xonar soundcard in an old PC, but solved it by using a USB soundcard with balanced XLR outputs.
Now I have the marantz amp (also balanced outputs) the noise has come back.
After researching it seems lots of people have had problems with nvidia cards and ground loops/interference over the years.
I've read people have solved it by buying an AMD card.
I don't really want to do this, but I will do if I have to as this noise is driving me crazy!
Is it nvidia cutting corners? Nvidia design fault?
Should I buy a UPS or just lift the ground on my PC and just play games with rubber gloves on?
If you buy a UPS, be sure to get one with pure sine wave. Simulated sine waves will not keep the PC on during a power failure if you have a active pfc power supply.
I'm using 11 active speakers all connected with balanced cables in a Dolby atmos setup.
I've tried turning all over clocks off, disabling C states and turbo boost etc on the cpu and gpu.
As soon as the gfx card is underload the sound starts. Alt tabbing out stops the noise but it always comes back." When you go back into the game.
I don't see how it could be a ground loop. I'm using all balances outputs on the amp (xlr) and HDMI inputs from the gfx card Wii U and Xbox.
The Xbox and Wii U don't make a single sound so it's coming from the PC.
My RME fireface didn't make these noises through the balanced outputs though but that doesn't support atmos.
Is it the marantz av7702 mk2 that doesn't have true balanced outputs? (Even though it's advertised as doing so)
Is it interference from the water pump in the Pc?
I've been reading about issues with electro magnetic interference with nvidia cards dating back 10 years.
My 980ti is watercooled. Does the standard gpu case (the bit you take off with the fan in when you put the water block on) actually work to stop interference?
By me putting the water block on remove the shielding?
My case is really small and was a bitch to build. Don't really want to strip it back down but will if I have to.
I'll make a video showing the problem.
This isn't a subtle sound btw. It's as loud as the game audio.
When you turn VSync off you can hear it step up in pitch 3 or 4 times like an old racing car game from the 80's changing gear.
I'll see if it does it with the Intel onboard GPU.
I intend to get to the bottom of this.
I'm convinced it's the gfx card though. There's literally not much else it could be apart from the PSU.
This is using the same cables and everything. All I did was plug the hdmi cable into the motherboard hdmi instead of the nvidia hdmi port and loaded alien isolation.
It is definitely coming from the nvidia card. There is no doubt about it.
I left the 980ti in place as it is water cooled with solid acrylic pipes so is a nightmare to 'whip out'
Is the 980ti faulty or is it a inherent design fault?
Any suggestions?
Would putting electrical tape around the hdmi port on the 980ti help?
Asus Deluxe Gen3, Core i7 2700k@4.5Ghz, GTX 1080Ti, 16 GB RAM, Win 7 64bit
Samsung Pro 250 GB SSD, 4 TB WD Black (games)
Benq XL2720Z
Try a different PCI-e 16x slot?
If the PS fan intake is on the bottom, tilt your PC and peak at the capacitors for bloated or popped tops and other stuff for obvious damage.
It could be coil whine related? Typically this will happen with certain power supplies more so than others. I read something about it quite awhile back, I think single rail eliminated it, double rails were the culprit or vice versa?
Look on youtube and see if coil whine is what you are hearing at load.
There's also coil whine with runaway frames, which is somewhat different. This will happen sometimes when starting a game and the menu does not have a frame rate limit, it runs at an extreme framerate like 4000FPS , but it's audible from the case with no sound turned on or connected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility, most likely you will see that when the GPU runs and begins to be stressed out, it will reach the upper level of acceptable electromagnetism.
Now this is FINE! When they do the EMC Testing on the GPU they don't do it with regards to Audio Equipment EMC (where the intervals and standard is different).
I believe because of this, you get that interference... :(
What you can do, to test this theory, is to limit the POWER on the GPU to something like 60% and see if it still behaves the same;)
("Coil wine" is a totally different problem and it has to do with the ACTUAL components - coils - that resonate and "wine" at certain frequencies - Is more of a MFG "Impurity" - due to their very tiny size - then anything else.)
Now I believe that that is a digital output right? (I am not that familiar with the Dolby Atmos) What you can do is to use a filter (somewhere). At least this is what is still used for analogue signals and audio;)
Can you check that the interference is produces by the Amplifier and not the speakers? (Use a headset and see if you hear the buzzing there as well)
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
As I said earlier the sound isn't there with the onboard graphics chip doing the gfx and sound. This is still with the nvidia card in the machine but obviously not doing anything.
I tried going out of the nvidia HDMI into the projector directly. Then connected my onboard Intel GPU to the amp and assigned that as the primary sound device.
I then loaded alien isolation in anticipation. "Have I solved it?" I thought.....
Nope. As soon as the gfx card boosts it sounds like a wasp riding a minature quad bike.
I'm going to take all the water blocks/pumps etc out of the PC go back to air cooling. I'll try it with the motherboard on a cardboard box out of the case as well.
If it still makes the noise it's going back! I'll get a PS4 pro and only use a PC for movies and 1sr person shooters (on my monitor with headphones)
I can't believe I paid more for balanced audio outputs on this pre pro just for nvidia to cut corners on their shielding making it redundant.
This is what caused me to upgrade my old Asus Xonar soundcard to an RME fireface (which didn't hum by the way) bit that doesn't have atmos!
I might try and build a graphics card faraday cage.......or try AMD.
That's about the only options left, unless somebody else has any suggestions?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AV-Link-Ground-Loop-Isolator/dp/B000NVWB9O
I am unclear how you have connected things. Can you make a couple of diagrams?
For example, for me, it's:
Motherboard PCIe x1 slot --> Sound Blaster ZxR --> phono cables to Rotel 6 channel amplifier --> 5.1 speakers.
Sound Blaster ZxR is sandwiched in between 2 overclocked 1080s at 125% power limit with an HB SLi bridge on top even - I have never experienced such problems.
Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
GibsonRed here has done an extremely good step of troubleshooting, not guessing.
Guessing is: Ground loop, try AMD, coil whine, PSU. Troubleshooting is narrowing down the possibilities by targeted experiments. Guesses are OK to start the process for troubleshooting, but do it in a directed fashion to rule them out, not randomly try stuff. Randomly try stuff includes reinstalling the OS, trying new drivers, unplug USB cords. It's possible to stumble on answers, but using logic and reasoning is a much more powerful technique.
So, Ground loop. Not a terrible guess, except that ground is always 60 Hz hum. His description does not sound at all like 60 Hz hum.
UPS test is not a valid test for ground loop, because it's still a grounded box.
If you want to actually test ground loop, you'd need to plug the Marantz into the same circuit as the computer, so they use the exact same ground. Probably not worth the hassle.
Try AMD. No, this is just a shot in the dark based on internet reading. Maybe it randomly fixes the problem, but causes a raft of other problems, like not being able to play in 3D. Even if it works, it's a poor solution.
Coil whine. Maybe, but pretty unlikely. Coil whine is the coil/choke/inductor in the circuit vibrating at an audible frequency. True coil whine doesn't typically come across the audio, it's heard in the ambient air.
Maybe it pollutes the power supply, maybe pollutes the audio channel, but is pretty rare. Pretty unlikely, because it sounds like it's a very loud noise, and coil whine is more subtle.
Possibly does suggest that the PSU is not doing a quality job of filtering the power. If it were getting feedback, or allowing the power to sag enough at frequency, that could show up as audio noise.
PSU is weak. Maybe, but also unlikely. What is the brand, and how old is it? How is the audio generated, and would it be susceptible to power problems?
Back to the extremely good test case- using onboard video.
That is a great troubleshooting, because it narrows down the possibilities from random to specific.
In that case, the same PSU is used, the same audio, the same ground, the Marantz amp, the same wiring to the amp. That rules out a lot of pieces and heads toward an answer.
Can't be a ground loop, can't be the Marantz, can't be the wires to the amp.
Can still be PSU, because the PSU is not as stressed for onboard video. Can still be audio card getting power drop outs or contamination.
But clearly- it's video card related somehow. Either by power draw, or the card itself.
For the card itself, I'd be pretty surprised if NVidia cards have this problem in general. Maybe, but their hardware specs are actually very good.
Another troubleshoot test would be to swap video cards with another high power NVidia card of some form. Can be older, but should still be full power.
My best guess based on the info provided is the PSU is failing somehow.
To troubleshoot more, we need more details about your system, that would be really, really helpful as your forum signature, hint, hint.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I tired reseating the card but that didn't work either.
I've read that the waterblock can cause coil whine, especially the back plate, if it's too tight, it bends the board slightly.
I'll be trying taking all the water cooling out later today to test more.
Here's a video so you can hear it....
https://youtu.be/UiyJlxChcG4
I'm going out of the 980ti to the marantz av7702mk2 over HDMI. The XLR out of the marantz av7702mk2 to 11 active speakers (3x Adam A77X's, 4X Mackie MR5, 4X Mackie CR5's) video out of the amp into a Panasonic ptat-6000e projector.
Also DisplayPort from the pc to a acer x34a Gsync monitor.
I have an Asus ROG Impact VII Z97 motherboard, Intel 4770K cpu with full EK motherboard waterblock, 16GB RAM, EVGA 980ti with EK waterblock, EK pump, Superflower PSU.
I'm about to take all the waterblocks and pump/rads out and go back to air.
Any suggestions appreciated!
Just changing the clock speed in precisionX changes the Audible pitch!
I tired plugging the amp, and pc into the same outlet. Even tired it in the UPS but it's still the same.....buzzzzzzzzz
Did you try out what I suggested earlier?
Put the GPU Power Limit down to 58%. This way the GPU will never get stressed out and ofc the PSU will NOT be forced to deliver the full Wattage required for the 980Ti to work at boost clocks.
What this shows:
- If the sound is still there, the GPU most likely has something funky going on
- If the sound is not there, you have 2 options:
a. Try a different GPU with a TPD equivalent to the 980Ti (250W). The 780ti is one of them, the GTX 590 was the same, a lot of older GPUs are the same;) make sure that you stress out the GPU (full 99% usage).
b. If the problem with a different GPU is the same, then try a different PSU.
This is how I would attack the problem.
PS:
Having the waterblocks on the components will definitely not affect this. What happens if you plug in Stereo Headset into the Marantz? can you still hear the "parasites" ?
1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc
My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com
(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)
I've taken the gfx card out and kept the water loop on the cpu. (Couldn't find the aircooler for it)
Can't find the Alan key to get the waterblock off either!
My mates coming round with an aircooled 680 so I'll try that and see if the noise is still there.
If I clock down the card in precision X the noise drops in pitch and is slightly quieter but still there.
If I enable VSync it turns the noise down (as in the video in my last post)
Also in resident evil 7 there is a max fps setting. Changing this to 60hz reduces the hum and setting it to 30hz reduces the hum even more.
It is definitely associated with GPU clock speed.
I'll get back on here later after I've tried the 680.
It doesn't hum on the acer x34a monitor over DisplayPort.
I'll also try headphones later but doubt it will be coming through those.
If doesn't come through the headphones it more than likely a ground loop.
I personally haven't ever experienced this with any pc that I have ever built. But I have certainly experienced it with other components that I have had in the past. One thing I can say for sure is that you will almost never see this in digital lines, cause well, they are digital not analog. You have already ruled out your anything outside your pc as the problem as it works fine with onboard audio inside the same pc (bo3b was correct, that was a great test). Without seeing your system I am also leaning toward the psu as the source of your headache. And it maybe just that specific 12 volt rail for the video card power output (6 or 8 pin) connectors.
my 2 cents
Intel 7700k @ 4.2Ghz / 32GB @ 3200
Asus Z270 / 2 x Evga 1070
4 x Samsung 840 Raid 0
4 x Samsung 850 Pro Raid 0
Samsung 950 Pro
Epson 5040UB 3DTVPlay