Ghosting is largly due to Nvidia glasses not blocking out light? Ghosting may not be caused by low r
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Hey guys, found something today which now that i've noticed, i can't believe i didn't see before. Playing though batman, and noticed more ghosting today then usual (think im just being sensitive.) What i noticed though, was that if i looked directly at something (aka it was straight ahead on the screen) there would be no ghosting at all. if i moved my head just a tiny amount (without moving the in game camera) there would be loads of ghosting.
A little trial and error, and i found that only a small part of the glasses, about 2 cm in the centre, maybe an inch actually blacked out the white against black entirely. Everything towards the nose part of the glasses and out on the peripheral sides was not blackened at all. Trying out a few different tests, i noticed that, with the glasses taken off, so i could try from different angles with the lens up to my eye, if the glasses were at a slight angle, they allowed all the light from the right eye to pass through to the left even in the centre of the glasses, showing that your eyes need to be at a straight angle to the lcd of the glasses (maybe explaining the goofy design.)
Playing batman, now that I've noticed this, its kinda annoying as if i move my head ghosting is reduced depending on whether im looking directly at the light source, or im looking dead centre at the screen centre, and the light source is to the right or left of my screen.
for note im only using a 23 inch aw2310, so its not like i have a massive screen or anything. But it does seem that the LCD tech in the glasses is not black enough to get ghost free images, even if LCD screen had a black to white response time of 1 ms. Aka, nvidia need to at some point upgrade their glasses to get blacker and let less light through.
Has this issue ever been raised before or noted? Everything i have found on the internet states that ghosting is due to response times being to slow for bright to black colours, but i have proved in the case of batman, on an aw2310, that's not true. The ghosting is 100% because of the glasses, and the fact that at certain veiwing angles i have no ghosting at all shows that.
Hey guys, found something today which now that i've noticed, i can't believe i didn't see before. Playing though batman, and noticed more ghosting today then usual (think im just being sensitive.) What i noticed though, was that if i looked directly at something (aka it was straight ahead on the screen) there would be no ghosting at all. if i moved my head just a tiny amount (without moving the in game camera) there would be loads of ghosting.
A little trial and error, and i found that only a small part of the glasses, about 2 cm in the centre, maybe an inch actually blacked out the white against black entirely. Everything towards the nose part of the glasses and out on the peripheral sides was not blackened at all. Trying out a few different tests, i noticed that, with the glasses taken off, so i could try from different angles with the lens up to my eye, if the glasses were at a slight angle, they allowed all the light from the right eye to pass through to the left even in the centre of the glasses, showing that your eyes need to be at a straight angle to the lcd of the glasses (maybe explaining the goofy design.)
Playing batman, now that I've noticed this, its kinda annoying as if i move my head ghosting is reduced depending on whether im looking directly at the light source, or im looking dead centre at the screen centre, and the light source is to the right or left of my screen.
for note im only using a 23 inch aw2310, so its not like i have a massive screen or anything. But it does seem that the LCD tech in the glasses is not black enough to get ghost free images, even if LCD screen had a black to white response time of 1 ms. Aka, nvidia need to at some point upgrade their glasses to get blacker and let less light through.
Has this issue ever been raised before or noted? Everything i have found on the internet states that ghosting is due to response times being to slow for bright to black colours, but i have proved in the case of batman, on an aw2310, that's not true. The ghosting is 100% because of the glasses, and the fact that at certain veiwing angles i have no ghosting at all shows that.
This is really bad actually. So in batman, using a lit window as an example, sat at about 3-4 feet away from the monitor (aw2310) if i look directly at thw window, there is ghosting or double image. The ghosting is to the right of the window. If i look directly at the ghosting, then there is NO ghosting at all. Were talking about moving my vision about 2 cm across the screen, or in degrees, maybe 1, 2 degrees. I don't understand the tech but that would suggest strongly that the nvidia glasses only block out light that is in a direct path to your eyes, and even on a 23 inch screen, sat 4 foot away (aka fov of 10 degrees at a guess?)
im going to try and attach photo's, but that seems really poor. basically what it seems is that even at 4 foot, the point where all light is blocked on the nvidia glasses is maybe 5 mm squared, aka very very tiny part of the eye.
Ok so here goes.
Img 1063: ghosting apparent, viewing angle towards nose.
img 1064: NO ghosting at all when looked at 100% straight.
1065: mild ghosting when slightly off centre.
I just tried keeping my head centre on the screen and just let my eyes move, but even then if a windows on the right or left of the screen i get ghosting, unless i move my head to look directly at the window, or the ghosting, and then it disappear. This is sat at 4 foot away from my monitor, im not sitting any further then that as its already looking pretty small that far away. Proof that Nvidia glasses are at fault, and not the screen.
Checking the ghosting in just cause 2 now becuase of this, ive found it is the same. 95% of it is caused by my glasses only being black (when shuttered) right in the centre of the glass, letting in light from elsewhere. If i put the glasses up to the screen where the ghosting is, the ghosting dissapears 100%. Put the glasses on, and look anywhere at the screen but where the ghosting (crosstalk) is, and the cross talk happens.
I feel i have a dodgy pair of glasses, or that perhaps the lcd darkness on the nvidia glasses are no where near the quality levels needed to make this 3d push become mainstream.
This is really bad actually. So in batman, using a lit window as an example, sat at about 3-4 feet away from the monitor (aw2310) if i look directly at thw window, there is ghosting or double image. The ghosting is to the right of the window. If i look directly at the ghosting, then there is NO ghosting at all. Were talking about moving my vision about 2 cm across the screen, or in degrees, maybe 1, 2 degrees. I don't understand the tech but that would suggest strongly that the nvidia glasses only block out light that is in a direct path to your eyes, and even on a 23 inch screen, sat 4 foot away (aka fov of 10 degrees at a guess?)
im going to try and attach photo's, but that seems really poor. basically what it seems is that even at 4 foot, the point where all light is blocked on the nvidia glasses is maybe 5 mm squared, aka very very tiny part of the eye.
Ok so here goes.
Img 1063: ghosting apparent, viewing angle towards nose.
img 1064: NO ghosting at all when looked at 100% straight.
1065: mild ghosting when slightly off centre.
I just tried keeping my head centre on the screen and just let my eyes move, but even then if a windows on the right or left of the screen i get ghosting, unless i move my head to look directly at the window, or the ghosting, and then it disappear. This is sat at 4 foot away from my monitor, im not sitting any further then that as its already looking pretty small that far away. Proof that Nvidia glasses are at fault, and not the screen.
Checking the ghosting in just cause 2 now becuase of this, ive found it is the same. 95% of it is caused by my glasses only being black (when shuttered) right in the centre of the glass, letting in light from elsewhere. If i put the glasses up to the screen where the ghosting is, the ghosting dissapears 100%. Put the glasses on, and look anywhere at the screen but where the ghosting (crosstalk) is, and the cross talk happens.
I feel i have a dodgy pair of glasses, or that perhaps the lcd darkness on the nvidia glasses are no where near the quality levels needed to make this 3d push become mainstream.
Yes you're of course 100% right about the glasses.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
Yes you're of course 100% right about the glasses.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
[quote name='vaelo' date='28 March 2011 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1301329222' post='1214544']
Yes you're of course 100% right about the glasses.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
[/quote]
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
[quote name='vaelo' date='28 March 2011 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1301329222' post='1214544']
Yes you're of course 100% right about the glasses.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
The crosstalk or ghosting of images (leaking of part of the image for the left eye into the right eye and vice versa) is a common problem with the current generation of 3D-capable 120Hz LCD monitors with different factors influencing it. One of the common issues is that the LCD panels are still not fast enough in terms of response time and because of that the monitor manufacturers resort to the so called Overdrive function (using more voltage to drive the pixel change state faster) in order to increase the pixel response rate. This works to some extent, but may as well lead to other issues like burnt colors resulting in colored ghosting visible in stereo 3D mode for example. Another common cause for ghosting is having brighter colors on darker backgrounds or vice versa, especially if the separation between the left and the right eye is higher. And then again there is the so called top and bottom ghosting that represents more ghosting on the top and at the bottom of the screen that is usually caused by not so good timing with the image on the screen and the shutter glasses. Apparentley dlp-projectors are the best for 3d ghost free gaming?.
Just gives you some idea of the drawbacks of 3d gaming.
[url="http://3dvision-blog.com/reducing-the-ghosting-on-acer-gd245hq-gd235hz-120hz-monitors/"]Reducing The Ghosting On Acer GD245HQ / GD235HZ 120Hz Monitors - 3D Vision Blog[/url]
lowering the level of contrast (the brightness of the display) from the default factory setting of 80 to something in between 50 and 60 you can get even slightly less crosstalk with the image getting a bit darker, so you have an option to get even better results. But as I’ve mentioned, even at the default settings the Planar SA2311W performs very good with the smallest levels of crosstalk I’ve seen so far trough all the 3D Vision-ready LCD monitors I’ve tested. It has become somewhat of a tradition that every new model of a 3D-capable LCD monitor I test here is performing better than the previous and has less crosstalk than the previous one and Planar SA2311W is no exception. With that said I think it is about time that I replace my old and trustworthy Samsing 2233RZ monitor with the one from Planar which also uses an LCD panel made by Samsung Electronics.
[url="http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/120hz-gaming-monitor/"]120Hz Gaming Monitor - 3D Vision Blog[/url]
The crosstalk or ghosting of images (leaking of part of the image for the left eye into the right eye and vice versa) is a common problem with the current generation of 3D-capable 120Hz LCD monitors with different factors influencing it. One of the common issues is that the LCD panels are still not fast enough in terms of response time and because of that the monitor manufacturers resort to the so called Overdrive function (using more voltage to drive the pixel change state faster) in order to increase the pixel response rate. This works to some extent, but may as well lead to other issues like burnt colors resulting in colored ghosting visible in stereo 3D mode for example. Another common cause for ghosting is having brighter colors on darker backgrounds or vice versa, especially if the separation between the left and the right eye is higher. And then again there is the so called top and bottom ghosting that represents more ghosting on the top and at the bottom of the screen that is usually caused by not so good timing with the image on the screen and the shutter glasses. Apparentley dlp-projectors are the best for 3d ghost free gaming?.
Just gives you some idea of the drawbacks of 3d gaming.
lowering the level of contrast (the brightness of the display) from the default factory setting of 80 to something in between 50 and 60 you can get even slightly less crosstalk with the image getting a bit darker, so you have an option to get even better results. But as I’ve mentioned, even at the default settings the Planar SA2311W performs very good with the smallest levels of crosstalk I’ve seen so far trough all the 3D Vision-ready LCD monitors I’ve tested. It has become somewhat of a tradition that every new model of a 3D-capable LCD monitor I test here is performing better than the previous and has less crosstalk than the previous one and Planar SA2311W is no exception. With that said I think it is about time that I replace my old and trustworthy Samsing 2233RZ monitor with the one from Planar which also uses an LCD panel made by Samsung Electronics.
I'd love to compare it to the aw2310, because im damned sure that the ghosting is not lcd problem. Not in batman. In some parts where there is white and black, then yes i would agree the problem is caused by the screen unable to transform from white to black and then back again quick enough, but 95% of my ghosting problems go away if i look directly at the problem area, aka, its the glasses that are not blocking out all the light unless it hits dead centre of the frame and a 90degree angle. Tried taking the nose plug off but didn't notice to much difference.
I really hope nvidia is working on an upgrade to these glasses that can offer uniform opacity across the entire lens, or at least a much bigger part of it. I have to say, that as much as i LOVE the tech, and it does add a lot to the mix, 3D will not take off until these problems are fixed. People don't want to spend oodles of money for something that "nearly" works. I would pay more for the glasses if they blocked out all the light from the other eye at all reasonable angles. My brother and dad were seriously looking to invest into this tech after seeing mine in action, but once the ghosting was pointed out their interest dropped like a stone. They still thought it was, and i quote "amazing" but they wouldn't spend the money on the tech until it was 100% ready. I love new tech no matter what, as i guess most people do on this forum, but still most people only want new tech when it works completely without bugs. Plus, these glasses are a few years old right? UPDATE! :-)
P.S. the reason the ghosting became an issue was because i turned my depth up, and separated the images more (and in so put to much angle between the light source on the LCD and the glasses.
I'd love to compare it to the aw2310, because im damned sure that the ghosting is not lcd problem. Not in batman. In some parts where there is white and black, then yes i would agree the problem is caused by the screen unable to transform from white to black and then back again quick enough, but 95% of my ghosting problems go away if i look directly at the problem area, aka, its the glasses that are not blocking out all the light unless it hits dead centre of the frame and a 90degree angle. Tried taking the nose plug off but didn't notice to much difference.
I really hope nvidia is working on an upgrade to these glasses that can offer uniform opacity across the entire lens, or at least a much bigger part of it. I have to say, that as much as i LOVE the tech, and it does add a lot to the mix, 3D will not take off until these problems are fixed. People don't want to spend oodles of money for something that "nearly" works. I would pay more for the glasses if they blocked out all the light from the other eye at all reasonable angles. My brother and dad were seriously looking to invest into this tech after seeing mine in action, but once the ghosting was pointed out their interest dropped like a stone. They still thought it was, and i quote "amazing" but they wouldn't spend the money on the tech until it was 100% ready. I love new tech no matter what, as i guess most people do on this forum, but still most people only want new tech when it works completely without bugs. Plus, these glasses are a few years old right? UPDATE! :-)
P.S. the reason the ghosting became an issue was because i turned my depth up, and separated the images more (and in so put to much angle between the light source on the LCD and the glasses.
If I stare at the right edge of my screen, items in the center ghost. Conversely, if I stare at the center, things on the edges will ghost if I don't turn my head to look at them. I barely notice it, though, because I always turn my head just a little bit, which is enough to make the effect go away. I guess it would be a lot worse if your eyes happen to be further apart, though.
If I stare at the right edge of my screen, items in the center ghost. Conversely, if I stare at the center, things on the edges will ghost if I don't turn my head to look at them. I barely notice it, though, because I always turn my head just a little bit, which is enough to make the effect go away. I guess it would be a lot worse if your eyes happen to be further apart, though.
[quote name='FBX' date='29 March 2011 - 04:01 AM' timestamp='1301367687' post='1214965']
The nvidia glasses are more effective at blocking light than the mitsubishi ones i have
[/quote]
Fair enough, so are nvidia the top of the line at the moment then? Shame... the more competition there was the quicker these problems would cease the exist. At least I now know that alien-ware aren't completely to blame for ghosting issues. I think if this problem doesn't get sorted within the next couple of years i will buy a head set, as by then hopefully Sony will have released its 720P concept idea!
[quote name='FBX' date='29 March 2011 - 04:01 AM' timestamp='1301367687' post='1214965']
The nvidia glasses are more effective at blocking light than the mitsubishi ones i have
Fair enough, so are nvidia the top of the line at the moment then? Shame... the more competition there was the quicker these problems would cease the exist. At least I now know that alien-ware aren't completely to blame for ghosting issues. I think if this problem doesn't get sorted within the next couple of years i will buy a head set, as by then hopefully Sony will have released its 720P concept idea!
[quote name='foreverseeking' date='28 March 2011 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1301332024' post='1214581']
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
[/quote]
The majority of the blame lies with the glasses. I have a tremendous CRT monitor and my Nvidia glasses still ghost like a bitch. My ED glasses reduce ghosting in the same image by eighty percent.
It's Nvidia's glasses, don't believe Nvidia when they tell you that its your monitor.
[quote name='foreverseeking' date='28 March 2011 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1301332024' post='1214581']
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
The majority of the blame lies with the glasses. I have a tremendous CRT monitor and my Nvidia glasses still ghost like a bitch. My ED glasses reduce ghosting in the same image by eighty percent.
It's Nvidia's glasses, don't believe Nvidia when they tell you that its your monitor.
AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision
my 2 cents - ghosting is totally hardware issue when monitor pixels do not react quick enough to go bright/dark on contrast scenes when you have 2 similar pictures "shifted" left/right to create s3d effect. its like an afterglow. newer monitor models do better and projectors don't have this issue at all since they have a ray picturing top bottom on passive screen for each frame.
Even if your glasses dont go immediately opaque/transparent on each frame, but your screen only shows clear 1-per eye picture, you will only absorb that eye message, i.e. glasses are not to blame (I think)
my 2 cents - ghosting is totally hardware issue when monitor pixels do not react quick enough to go bright/dark on contrast scenes when you have 2 similar pictures "shifted" left/right to create s3d effect. its like an afterglow. newer monitor models do better and projectors don't have this issue at all since they have a ray picturing top bottom on passive screen for each frame.
Even if your glasses dont go immediately opaque/transparent on each frame, but your screen only shows clear 1-per eye picture, you will only absorb that eye message, i.e. glasses are not to blame (I think)
[quote]It's Nvidia's glasses, don't believe Nvidia when they tell you that its your monitor.[/quote]
If that's true then why is it that newer monitors ghost less than older monitors?
[quote name='Zloth' date='30 March 2011 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1301447497' post='1215604']
If that's true then why is it that newer monitors ghost less than older monitors?
[/quote]
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
[quote name='Skarling' date='30 March 2011 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1301448199' post='1215613']
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
[/quote]
I have one of the best monitors on the market for 3d from what ive read. When you have black on white images, there will be mild ghosting caused by the pixels not shifting colour fast enough. These are visible however you look at the picture, and is almost certainly fault of the screen. This is what people notice the difference when getting better monitors.
All the ghosting thats just to do with contrast on my screen, where im not looking directly at is 100% because of my glasses.
Test!
Take of your glasses, put them up to screen where ghosting is, does it dissapear? Yes? Thats because the lights being blocked by the glasses and the screen response time is fast enough.
Now put the glasses on and look directly at the ghosting, if you cant see it the screen must be fine ( as like mine) now look slightly away from ghosting, but still looking at your lcd screen. The ghosting gets worse! Thats because the glasses dont block all light from all angles. Batman has terrible ghosting for me at max depth, but if i loom directly at the ghosting it stops. If the ghosting is towards the nose or periphrsl it gets worse and worse until at the far extremes the glasses dont block any light from the other eye at all.
Test it out :-)
Its flawed tech, long way to go, but meh, i love it!
[quote name='Skarling' date='30 March 2011 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1301448199' post='1215613']
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
I have one of the best monitors on the market for 3d from what ive read. When you have black on white images, there will be mild ghosting caused by the pixels not shifting colour fast enough. These are visible however you look at the picture, and is almost certainly fault of the screen. This is what people notice the difference when getting better monitors.
All the ghosting thats just to do with contrast on my screen, where im not looking directly at is 100% because of my glasses.
Test!
Take of your glasses, put them up to screen where ghosting is, does it dissapear? Yes? Thats because the lights being blocked by the glasses and the screen response time is fast enough.
Now put the glasses on and look directly at the ghosting, if you cant see it the screen must be fine ( as like mine) now look slightly away from ghosting, but still looking at your lcd screen. The ghosting gets worse! Thats because the glasses dont block all light from all angles. Batman has terrible ghosting for me at max depth, but if i loom directly at the ghosting it stops. If the ghosting is towards the nose or periphrsl it gets worse and worse until at the far extremes the glasses dont block any light from the other eye at all.
Test it out :-)
Its flawed tech, long way to go, but meh, i love it!
[quote name='Skarling' date='30 March 2011 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1301448199' post='1215613']
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
[/quote]
Also, judging from my tests of two games, in just cause 2 70% of ghosting is to do with my monitor, as its very bright and the main guy is very dark. There is lits of ghosting because of the glasses but mostly its the monitor.
In batman, where there is much darker, even the whites are usually grey i would say the ghosting is about 95% the glasses, as it all dissapears if i look at it.
So to say its not the glasses is just being ignorant. Its definatly both.
Andrew from nvidia do you have any comment or is this one out of your juristiction as its potentially negative comment about your product? If so i understand. Still as i said, flawed but i love it anyway.
[quote name='Skarling' date='30 March 2011 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1301448199' post='1215613']
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
Also, judging from my tests of two games, in just cause 2 70% of ghosting is to do with my monitor, as its very bright and the main guy is very dark. There is lits of ghosting because of the glasses but mostly its the monitor.
In batman, where there is much darker, even the whites are usually grey i would say the ghosting is about 95% the glasses, as it all dissapears if i look at it.
So to say its not the glasses is just being ignorant. Its definatly both.
Andrew from nvidia do you have any comment or is this one out of your juristiction as its potentially negative comment about your product? If so i understand. Still as i said, flawed but i love it anyway.
A little trial and error, and i found that only a small part of the glasses, about 2 cm in the centre, maybe an inch actually blacked out the white against black entirely. Everything towards the nose part of the glasses and out on the peripheral sides was not blackened at all. Trying out a few different tests, i noticed that, with the glasses taken off, so i could try from different angles with the lens up to my eye, if the glasses were at a slight angle, they allowed all the light from the right eye to pass through to the left even in the centre of the glasses, showing that your eyes need to be at a straight angle to the lcd of the glasses (maybe explaining the goofy design.)
Playing batman, now that I've noticed this, its kinda annoying as if i move my head ghosting is reduced depending on whether im looking directly at the light source, or im looking dead centre at the screen centre, and the light source is to the right or left of my screen.
for note im only using a 23 inch aw2310, so its not like i have a massive screen or anything. But it does seem that the LCD tech in the glasses is not black enough to get ghost free images, even if LCD screen had a black to white response time of 1 ms. Aka, nvidia need to at some point upgrade their glasses to get blacker and let less light through.
Has this issue ever been raised before or noted? Everything i have found on the internet states that ghosting is due to response times being to slow for bright to black colours, but i have proved in the case of batman, on an aw2310, that's not true. The ghosting is 100% because of the glasses, and the fact that at certain veiwing angles i have no ghosting at all shows that.
Cheers
Elliot
A little trial and error, and i found that only a small part of the glasses, about 2 cm in the centre, maybe an inch actually blacked out the white against black entirely. Everything towards the nose part of the glasses and out on the peripheral sides was not blackened at all. Trying out a few different tests, i noticed that, with the glasses taken off, so i could try from different angles with the lens up to my eye, if the glasses were at a slight angle, they allowed all the light from the right eye to pass through to the left even in the centre of the glasses, showing that your eyes need to be at a straight angle to the lcd of the glasses (maybe explaining the goofy design.)
Playing batman, now that I've noticed this, its kinda annoying as if i move my head ghosting is reduced depending on whether im looking directly at the light source, or im looking dead centre at the screen centre, and the light source is to the right or left of my screen.
for note im only using a 23 inch aw2310, so its not like i have a massive screen or anything. But it does seem that the LCD tech in the glasses is not black enough to get ghost free images, even if LCD screen had a black to white response time of 1 ms. Aka, nvidia need to at some point upgrade their glasses to get blacker and let less light through.
Has this issue ever been raised before or noted? Everything i have found on the internet states that ghosting is due to response times being to slow for bright to black colours, but i have proved in the case of batman, on an aw2310, that's not true. The ghosting is 100% because of the glasses, and the fact that at certain veiwing angles i have no ghosting at all shows that.
Cheers
Elliot
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
im going to try and attach photo's, but that seems really poor. basically what it seems is that even at 4 foot, the point where all light is blocked on the nvidia glasses is maybe 5 mm squared, aka very very tiny part of the eye.
Ok so here goes.
Img 1063: ghosting apparent, viewing angle towards nose.
img 1064: NO ghosting at all when looked at 100% straight.
1065: mild ghosting when slightly off centre.
I just tried keeping my head centre on the screen and just let my eyes move, but even then if a windows on the right or left of the screen i get ghosting, unless i move my head to look directly at the window, or the ghosting, and then it disappear. This is sat at 4 foot away from my monitor, im not sitting any further then that as its already looking pretty small that far away. Proof that Nvidia glasses are at fault, and not the screen.
Checking the ghosting in just cause 2 now becuase of this, ive found it is the same. 95% of it is caused by my glasses only being black (when shuttered) right in the centre of the glass, letting in light from elsewhere. If i put the glasses up to the screen where the ghosting is, the ghosting dissapears 100%. Put the glasses on, and look anywhere at the screen but where the ghosting (crosstalk) is, and the cross talk happens.
I feel i have a dodgy pair of glasses, or that perhaps the lcd darkness on the nvidia glasses are no where near the quality levels needed to make this 3d push become mainstream.
Andrew, i would love your advice. Cheers.
im going to try and attach photo's, but that seems really poor. basically what it seems is that even at 4 foot, the point where all light is blocked on the nvidia glasses is maybe 5 mm squared, aka very very tiny part of the eye.
Ok so here goes.
Img 1063: ghosting apparent, viewing angle towards nose.
img 1064: NO ghosting at all when looked at 100% straight.
1065: mild ghosting when slightly off centre.
I just tried keeping my head centre on the screen and just let my eyes move, but even then if a windows on the right or left of the screen i get ghosting, unless i move my head to look directly at the window, or the ghosting, and then it disappear. This is sat at 4 foot away from my monitor, im not sitting any further then that as its already looking pretty small that far away. Proof that Nvidia glasses are at fault, and not the screen.
Checking the ghosting in just cause 2 now becuase of this, ive found it is the same. 95% of it is caused by my glasses only being black (when shuttered) right in the centre of the glass, letting in light from elsewhere. If i put the glasses up to the screen where the ghosting is, the ghosting dissapears 100%. Put the glasses on, and look anywhere at the screen but where the ghosting (crosstalk) is, and the cross talk happens.
I feel i have a dodgy pair of glasses, or that perhaps the lcd darkness on the nvidia glasses are no where near the quality levels needed to make this 3d push become mainstream.
Andrew, i would love your advice. Cheers.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
Core i7 920 @ 3.6Ghz, 6GB 3 Channel, SLi GTX670 2GB, SSD
Yes you're of course 100% right about the glasses.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
[/quote]
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
Yes you're of course 100% right about the glasses.
But the top/bottom ghosting is to do with the fact that your LCD is constantly drawing top to bottom and the glasses can't really be open only when a full image is present on screen, otherwise they'd never be open. As it is there is a lot of brightness loss because they're just not open very much because they can't be - the super slow motion video captures of the system in operation show this.
You're of course right about the the high contrast ghosting being due to the glasses.
With the limitations of the LCD tech and the seemingly compromising glasses, it's a wonder it works at all lol. BUT, it still gives an amazing immersive experience.
I've taken the nose piece off of my glasses because it moves that sweet spot in the center of the glasses lenses closer to my eye thus effectively making it a larger sweet spot. Less comfortable sure, but helps the problem a little bit.
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
Just gives you some idea of the drawbacks of 3d gaming.
[url="http://3dvision-blog.com/reducing-the-ghosting-on-acer-gd245hq-gd235hz-120hz-monitors/"]Reducing The Ghosting On Acer GD245HQ / GD235HZ 120Hz Monitors - 3D Vision Blog[/url]
lowering the level of contrast (the brightness of the display) from the default factory setting of 80 to something in between 50 and 60 you can get even slightly less crosstalk with the image getting a bit darker, so you have an option to get even better results. But as I’ve mentioned, even at the default settings the Planar SA2311W performs very good with the smallest levels of crosstalk I’ve seen so far trough all the 3D Vision-ready LCD monitors I’ve tested. It has become somewhat of a tradition that every new model of a 3D-capable LCD monitor I test here is performing better than the previous and has less crosstalk than the previous one and Planar SA2311W is no exception. With that said I think it is about time that I replace my old and trustworthy Samsing 2233RZ monitor with the one from Planar which also uses an LCD panel made by Samsung Electronics.
[url="http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/120hz-gaming-monitor/"]120Hz Gaming Monitor - 3D Vision Blog[/url]
Just gives you some idea of the drawbacks of 3d gaming.
Reducing The Ghosting On Acer GD245HQ / GD235HZ 120Hz Monitors - 3D Vision Blog
lowering the level of contrast (the brightness of the display) from the default factory setting of 80 to something in between 50 and 60 you can get even slightly less crosstalk with the image getting a bit darker, so you have an option to get even better results. But as I’ve mentioned, even at the default settings the Planar SA2311W performs very good with the smallest levels of crosstalk I’ve seen so far trough all the 3D Vision-ready LCD monitors I’ve tested. It has become somewhat of a tradition that every new model of a 3D-capable LCD monitor I test here is performing better than the previous and has less crosstalk than the previous one and Planar SA2311W is no exception. With that said I think it is about time that I replace my old and trustworthy Samsing 2233RZ monitor with the one from Planar which also uses an LCD panel made by Samsung Electronics.
120Hz Gaming Monitor - 3D Vision Blog
Windows 10 home x64
P9X79
i7-3820 @ 3.6-3.8 GHz
GTX 970 SSC
16GB 4x4 DDR3 RAM
SSD 850 PRO 256GB
VG248QE 144Hz
I really hope nvidia is working on an upgrade to these glasses that can offer uniform opacity across the entire lens, or at least a much bigger part of it. I have to say, that as much as i LOVE the tech, and it does add a lot to the mix, 3D will not take off until these problems are fixed. People don't want to spend oodles of money for something that "nearly" works. I would pay more for the glasses if they blocked out all the light from the other eye at all reasonable angles. My brother and dad were seriously looking to invest into this tech after seeing mine in action, but once the ghosting was pointed out their interest dropped like a stone. They still thought it was, and i quote "amazing" but they wouldn't spend the money on the tech until it was 100% ready. I love new tech no matter what, as i guess most people do on this forum, but still most people only want new tech when it works completely without bugs. Plus, these glasses are a few years old right? UPDATE! :-)
P.S. the reason the ghosting became an issue was because i turned my depth up, and separated the images more (and in so put to much angle between the light source on the LCD and the glasses.
I really hope nvidia is working on an upgrade to these glasses that can offer uniform opacity across the entire lens, or at least a much bigger part of it. I have to say, that as much as i LOVE the tech, and it does add a lot to the mix, 3D will not take off until these problems are fixed. People don't want to spend oodles of money for something that "nearly" works. I would pay more for the glasses if they blocked out all the light from the other eye at all reasonable angles. My brother and dad were seriously looking to invest into this tech after seeing mine in action, but once the ghosting was pointed out their interest dropped like a stone. They still thought it was, and i quote "amazing" but they wouldn't spend the money on the tech until it was 100% ready. I love new tech no matter what, as i guess most people do on this forum, but still most people only want new tech when it works completely without bugs. Plus, these glasses are a few years old right? UPDATE! :-)
P.S. the reason the ghosting became an issue was because i turned my depth up, and separated the images more (and in so put to much angle between the light source on the LCD and the glasses.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
The nvidia glasses are more effective at blocking light than the mitsubishi ones i have
[/quote]
Fair enough, so are nvidia the top of the line at the moment then? Shame... the more competition there was the quicker these problems would cease the exist. At least I now know that alien-ware aren't completely to blame for ghosting issues. I think if this problem doesn't get sorted within the next couple of years i will buy a head set, as by then hopefully Sony will have released its 720P concept idea!
The nvidia glasses are more effective at blocking light than the mitsubishi ones i have
Fair enough, so are nvidia the top of the line at the moment then? Shame... the more competition there was the quicker these problems would cease the exist. At least I now know that alien-ware aren't completely to blame for ghosting issues. I think if this problem doesn't get sorted within the next couple of years i will buy a head set, as by then hopefully Sony will have released its 720P concept idea!
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
[/quote]
The majority of the blame lies with the glasses. I have a tremendous CRT monitor and my Nvidia glasses still ghost like a bitch. My ED glasses reduce ghosting in the same image by eighty percent.
It's Nvidia's glasses, don't believe Nvidia when they tell you that its your monitor.
going to give that a go (taking out the nose bit). Its annoying though, as this isn't really talked about at all, everything points to the monitor being to blame, but to be honest, holding my glasses up to the screen where's there ghosting, eliminates nearly all ghosting. there would only be a minimal ghosting because of the screen response time, and only in literally black white areas.
This also explains why people say lower depth creates less crosstalk. It made no sense to me at first, how could lowering depth create less cross talk, theres always the double image, it would just make the cross talk closer to the original, but not get read of it. Now it makes sense, the more depth you add the a game, the further the left eye and right eye object are separated. the further the objects are separated the more chance on fo them will fall outside of direct view of the eye, and enter the nvidia lcd at an angle, and BOOM! lets the light through.
Are nvidia glasses the most opaque glasses on the market or are there better ones? i thought it was a monitor issue, and seeing as how i have the "best" lcd 3d monitor on the market right now thought id have to put up with it, but now i find out its actually the glasses... any chance i can improve the situation?
The majority of the blame lies with the glasses. I have a tremendous CRT monitor and my Nvidia glasses still ghost like a bitch. My ED glasses reduce ghosting in the same image by eighty percent.
It's Nvidia's glasses, don't believe Nvidia when they tell you that its your monitor.
AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8GHZ
8GB RAM
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb @ 2048x1536 @ 85hz
Edimensional glasses and Nvidia 3D Vision
Even if your glasses dont go immediately opaque/transparent on each frame, but your screen only shows clear 1-per eye picture, you will only absorb that eye message, i.e. glasses are not to blame (I think)
Even if your glasses dont go immediately opaque/transparent on each frame, but your screen only shows clear 1-per eye picture, you will only absorb that eye message, i.e. glasses are not to blame (I think)
If that's true then why is it that newer monitors ghost less than older monitors?
If that's true then why is it that newer monitors ghost less than older monitors?
If that's true then why is it that newer monitors ghost less than older monitors?
[/quote]
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
If that's true then why is it that newer monitors ghost less than older monitors?
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
[/quote]
I have one of the best monitors on the market for 3d from what ive read. When you have black on white images, there will be mild ghosting caused by the pixels not shifting colour fast enough. These are visible however you look at the picture, and is almost certainly fault of the screen. This is what people notice the difference when getting better monitors.
All the ghosting thats just to do with contrast on my screen, where im not looking directly at is 100% because of my glasses.
Test!
Take of your glasses, put them up to screen where ghosting is, does it dissapear? Yes? Thats because the lights being blocked by the glasses and the screen response time is fast enough.
Now put the glasses on and look directly at the ghosting, if you cant see it the screen must be fine ( as like mine) now look slightly away from ghosting, but still looking at your lcd screen. The ghosting gets worse! Thats because the glasses dont block all light from all angles. Batman has terrible ghosting for me at max depth, but if i loom directly at the ghosting it stops. If the ghosting is towards the nose or periphrsl it gets worse and worse until at the far extremes the glasses dont block any light from the other eye at all.
Test it out :-)
Its flawed tech, long way to go, but meh, i love it!
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
I have one of the best monitors on the market for 3d from what ive read. When you have black on white images, there will be mild ghosting caused by the pixels not shifting colour fast enough. These are visible however you look at the picture, and is almost certainly fault of the screen. This is what people notice the difference when getting better monitors.
All the ghosting thats just to do with contrast on my screen, where im not looking directly at is 100% because of my glasses.
Test!
Take of your glasses, put them up to screen where ghosting is, does it dissapear? Yes? Thats because the lights being blocked by the glasses and the screen response time is fast enough.
Now put the glasses on and look directly at the ghosting, if you cant see it the screen must be fine ( as like mine) now look slightly away from ghosting, but still looking at your lcd screen. The ghosting gets worse! Thats because the glasses dont block all light from all angles. Batman has terrible ghosting for me at max depth, but if i loom directly at the ghosting it stops. If the ghosting is towards the nose or periphrsl it gets worse and worse until at the far extremes the glasses dont block any light from the other eye at all.
Test it out :-)
Its flawed tech, long way to go, but meh, i love it!
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
[/quote]
Also, judging from my tests of two games, in just cause 2 70% of ghosting is to do with my monitor, as its very bright and the main guy is very dark. There is lits of ghosting because of the glasses but mostly its the monitor.
In batman, where there is much darker, even the whites are usually grey i would say the ghosting is about 95% the glasses, as it all dissapears if i look at it.
So to say its not the glasses is just being ignorant. Its definatly both.
Andrew from nvidia do you have any comment or is this one out of your juristiction as its potentially negative comment about your product? If so i understand. Still as i said, flawed but i love it anyway.
'cause its nothing to do with glasses. see above. its like you blink fast while looking at your favorite sofa - no ghosting (for most families)
Also, judging from my tests of two games, in just cause 2 70% of ghosting is to do with my monitor, as its very bright and the main guy is very dark. There is lits of ghosting because of the glasses but mostly its the monitor.
In batman, where there is much darker, even the whites are usually grey i would say the ghosting is about 95% the glasses, as it all dissapears if i look at it.
So to say its not the glasses is just being ignorant. Its definatly both.
Andrew from nvidia do you have any comment or is this one out of your juristiction as its potentially negative comment about your product? If so i understand. Still as i said, flawed but i love it anyway.
OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti