Vote here if you get NO ghosting on 2233RZ Samsung 22"
  1 / 2    
I recently got the kit, and although the cool 3D effects can be seen, this surprise is ruined by the ghosting present in all games I've tried - L4D, Dead Space (very bad), Crysis (very bad), Unreal 3, Far Cry 2, Audiosurf, etc. I have tweaked convergence as well, it only helps reduce ghosting within a particular "plane" -- either the plane closer to your eyes, or a more distance plane. In any case, there is always terrible ghosting everywhere else, making it difficult to focus on objects and to aim at the right objects (and not their ghosted copies). Other people have tried out my kit too and all of them see ghosting.

Is this something the technology has to live with, or do some of you not get any ghosting? I'd be surprised if NVidia demo centers of this kit would get much popularity if their setups also show this ghosting, if that's a normal effects we have to live with. I expected a better deal for 600 bux.
I recently got the kit, and although the cool 3D effects can be seen, this surprise is ruined by the ghosting present in all games I've tried - L4D, Dead Space (very bad), Crysis (very bad), Unreal 3, Far Cry 2, Audiosurf, etc. I have tweaked convergence as well, it only helps reduce ghosting within a particular "plane" -- either the plane closer to your eyes, or a more distance plane. In any case, there is always terrible ghosting everywhere else, making it difficult to focus on objects and to aim at the right objects (and not their ghosted copies). Other people have tried out my kit too and all of them see ghosting.



Is this something the technology has to live with, or do some of you not get any ghosting? I'd be surprised if NVidia demo centers of this kit would get much popularity if their setups also show this ghosting, if that's a normal effects we have to live with. I expected a better deal for 600 bux.

#1
Posted 06/19/2009 03:17 AM   
[quote name='DestroyerOfSenses' post='554475' date='Jun 18 2009, 09:17 PM']I recently got the kit, and although the cool 3D effects can be seen, this surprise is ruined by the ghosting present in all games I've tried - L4D, Dead Space (very bad), Crysis (very bad), Unreal 3, Far Cry 2, Audiosurf, etc. I have tweaked convergence as well, it only helps reduce ghosting within a particular "plane" -- either the plane closer to your eyes, or a more distance plane. In any case, there is always terrible ghosting everywhere else, making it difficult to focus on objects and to aim at the right objects (and not their ghosted copies). Other people have tried out my kit too and all of them see ghosting.

Is this something the technology has to live with, or do some of you not get any ghosting? I'd be surprised if NVidia demo centers of this kit would get much popularity if their setups also show this ghosting, if that's a normal effects we have to live with. I expected a better deal for 600 bux.[/quote]

I have ghosting, but honestly, from what people have been saying, it must not be as bad as other get it. I have no problem ignoring it immediately unless I am looking for it, or if it is very very obnoxious (which is rare). Ghosting was quite a bit worse on my old CRT.
[quote name='DestroyerOfSenses' post='554475' date='Jun 18 2009, 09:17 PM']I recently got the kit, and although the cool 3D effects can be seen, this surprise is ruined by the ghosting present in all games I've tried - L4D, Dead Space (very bad), Crysis (very bad), Unreal 3, Far Cry 2, Audiosurf, etc. I have tweaked convergence as well, it only helps reduce ghosting within a particular "plane" -- either the plane closer to your eyes, or a more distance plane. In any case, there is always terrible ghosting everywhere else, making it difficult to focus on objects and to aim at the right objects (and not their ghosted copies). Other people have tried out my kit too and all of them see ghosting.



Is this something the technology has to live with, or do some of you not get any ghosting? I'd be surprised if NVidia demo centers of this kit would get much popularity if their setups also show this ghosting, if that's a normal effects we have to live with. I expected a better deal for 600 bux.



I have ghosting, but honestly, from what people have been saying, it must not be as bad as other get it. I have no problem ignoring it immediately unless I am looking for it, or if it is very very obnoxious (which is rare). Ghosting was quite a bit worse on my old CRT.

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--Robert A. Heinlein

#2
Posted 06/19/2009 03:21 AM   
[quote name='pahncrd' post='554477' date='Jun 18 2009, 09:21 PM']I have ghosting, but honestly, from what people have been saying, it must not be as bad as other get it. I have no problem ignoring it immediately unless I am looking for it, or if it is very very obnoxious (which is rare). Ghosting was quite a bit worse on my old CRT.[/quote]


What depth do you use? The ghosting offset is smaller for low depths, buit then the 3D effect sucks, so i like it at 100%, but then ghosted images are offset big time, so things like lights ghosting over dark objects look like garbage.
[quote name='pahncrd' post='554477' date='Jun 18 2009, 09:21 PM']I have ghosting, but honestly, from what people have been saying, it must not be as bad as other get it. I have no problem ignoring it immediately unless I am looking for it, or if it is very very obnoxious (which is rare). Ghosting was quite a bit worse on my old CRT.





What depth do you use? The ghosting offset is smaller for low depths, buit then the 3D effect sucks, so i like it at 100%, but then ghosted images are offset big time, so things like lights ghosting over dark objects look like garbage.

#3
Posted 06/19/2009 04:35 AM   
[quote name='DestroyerOfSenses' post='554500' date='Jun 18 2009, 10:35 PM']What depth do you use? The ghosting offset is smaller for low depths, buit then the 3D effect sucks, so i like it at 100%, but then ghosted images are offset big time, so things like lights ghosting over dark objects look like garbage.[/quote]

100%.. there is ghosting sometimes, but it just doesn't bother me. Course, I have been using 3d stereo for years now and this is honestly the best it has ever been.

You might try not worrying about the image being perfect, because it likely won't ever be. However, it is still amazing tech that can improve immersion immensely. Learn to ignore the occasional ghosting and your brain will eventually tune it out by default. The brain is good at tuning out non-relevant stimuli.
[quote name='DestroyerOfSenses' post='554500' date='Jun 18 2009, 10:35 PM']What depth do you use? The ghosting offset is smaller for low depths, buit then the 3D effect sucks, so i like it at 100%, but then ghosted images are offset big time, so things like lights ghosting over dark objects look like garbage.



100%.. there is ghosting sometimes, but it just doesn't bother me. Course, I have been using 3d stereo for years now and this is honestly the best it has ever been.



You might try not worrying about the image being perfect, because it likely won't ever be. However, it is still amazing tech that can improve immersion immensely. Learn to ignore the occasional ghosting and your brain will eventually tune it out by default. The brain is good at tuning out non-relevant stimuli.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#4
Posted 06/19/2009 05:11 AM   
ghosting is not even close to an issue for me, yes it sucks but i live with it, problem is with eye strain at 100% depth is a killer, got bad for me i had to take em off for a week my head hurt so bad :P
ghosting is not even close to an issue for me, yes it sucks but i live with it, problem is with eye strain at 100% depth is a killer, got bad for me i had to take em off for a week my head hurt so bad :P

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#5
Posted 06/19/2009 08:22 AM   
I would like to know the difference in ghosting between using Nvidia 3d vision with CRT and Edimensional glasses using the same CRT, to make me an idea.

I have not experienced with 3d vision, but I tend to think that they work equally.
I would like to know the difference in ghosting between using Nvidia 3d vision with CRT and Edimensional glasses using the same CRT, to make me an idea.



I have not experienced with 3d vision, but I tend to think that they work equally.

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#6
Posted 06/19/2009 09:14 AM   
I'm in the same boat as you, Destroyer. I love the 3D effect but most of the pleasant experience is sidelined by the ghosting. It's especially frustrating when your main genre is competitive FPS and distractions.....well distractions suck in any genre really. I like to play at 100% separation so the ghosting is at its worst at all times, especially considering there's nothing you can do about the brightness with this $400 22" monitor while in 3D. If ONLY you could turn down the brightness in 3D, it would take care of things at least a bit.

I wouldn't really call it "occasional" either. There's ghosting in practically every scene you can look at unless you're playing a very dark game....
I'm in the same boat as you, Destroyer. I love the 3D effect but most of the pleasant experience is sidelined by the ghosting. It's especially frustrating when your main genre is competitive FPS and distractions.....well distractions suck in any genre really. I like to play at 100% separation so the ghosting is at its worst at all times, especially considering there's nothing you can do about the brightness with this $400 22" monitor while in 3D. If ONLY you could turn down the brightness in 3D, it would take care of things at least a bit.



I wouldn't really call it "occasional" either. There's ghosting in practically every scene you can look at unless you're playing a very dark game....

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#7
Posted 06/19/2009 10:01 AM   
[quote name='magicandy' post='554584' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:01 AM']I'm in the same boat as you, Destroyer. I love the 3D effect but most of the pleasant experience is sidelined by the ghosting. It's especially frustrating when your main genre is competitive FPS and distractions.....well distractions suck in any genre really. I like to play at 100% separation so the ghosting is at its worst at all times, especially considering there's nothing you can do about the brightness with this $400 22" monitor while in 3D. If ONLY you could turn down the brightness in 3D, it would take care of things at least a bit.

I wouldn't really call it "occasional" either. There's ghosting in practically every scene you can look at unless you're playing a very dark game....[/quote]

Hmm can you explain the brightness situation? I find that all my games turn very dark in 3D vision, so i have to bump up the brightness setting in every game to the max, but even then it's still dark. That's actually another annoying feature, since it's hard to see sometimes because of scenes being too dark.
[quote name='magicandy' post='554584' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:01 AM']I'm in the same boat as you, Destroyer. I love the 3D effect but most of the pleasant experience is sidelined by the ghosting. It's especially frustrating when your main genre is competitive FPS and distractions.....well distractions suck in any genre really. I like to play at 100% separation so the ghosting is at its worst at all times, especially considering there's nothing you can do about the brightness with this $400 22" monitor while in 3D. If ONLY you could turn down the brightness in 3D, it would take care of things at least a bit.



I wouldn't really call it "occasional" either. There's ghosting in practically every scene you can look at unless you're playing a very dark game....



Hmm can you explain the brightness situation? I find that all my games turn very dark in 3D vision, so i have to bump up the brightness setting in every game to the max, but even then it's still dark. That's actually another annoying feature, since it's hard to see sometimes because of scenes being too dark.

#8
Posted 06/19/2009 01:20 PM   
[quote name='Kazedarkwind' post='554565' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:22 AM']ghosting is not even close to an issue for me, yes it sucks but i live with it, problem is with eye strain at 100% depth is a killer, got bad for me i had to take em off for a week my head hurt so bad :P[/quote]

lol then don't put it at 100%. :P I never play with mine above about 60% max. Provides plenty of depth without hurting my eyes/head.

Nobody gets "NO ghosting". Ghosting happens, it's a fact of current stereo technology. But it's far less in 3d Vision than any other stereo tech, and personally my experience with the 2233RZ & 3dV is that the little ghosting I do get is acceptable and easily ignored. Although, mostly I play LOTRO which has an in-game "Ambient Brightness" slider which is kind of a hybrid vibrance-brightness control that works miracles to offset screen darkness vs. oversaturated whites, so that really helps eliminate ghosting beautifully. Other game makers should take a lesson.

Still, there's no game I've ever played that had ghosting as bad as some of the people around here complain about. Either they're seeing something completely different from what I'm seeing or they have unrealistic expectations and are just looking for something to complain about.


[quote name='DestroyerOfSenses' post='554627' date='Jun 19 2009, 09:20 AM']Hmm can you explain the brightness situation? I find that all my games turn very dark in 3D vision, so i have to bump up the brightness setting in every game to the max, but even then it's still dark. That's actually another annoying feature, since it's hard to see sometimes because of scenes being too dark.[/quote]

Try offsetting the brightness by turning down gamma. That may help tamp down the overbright whites a bit.
[quote name='Kazedarkwind' post='554565' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:22 AM']ghosting is not even close to an issue for me, yes it sucks but i live with it, problem is with eye strain at 100% depth is a killer, got bad for me i had to take em off for a week my head hurt so bad :P



lol then don't put it at 100%. :P I never play with mine above about 60% max. Provides plenty of depth without hurting my eyes/head.



Nobody gets "NO ghosting". Ghosting happens, it's a fact of current stereo technology. But it's far less in 3d Vision than any other stereo tech, and personally my experience with the 2233RZ & 3dV is that the little ghosting I do get is acceptable and easily ignored. Although, mostly I play LOTRO which has an in-game "Ambient Brightness" slider which is kind of a hybrid vibrance-brightness control that works miracles to offset screen darkness vs. oversaturated whites, so that really helps eliminate ghosting beautifully. Other game makers should take a lesson.



Still, there's no game I've ever played that had ghosting as bad as some of the people around here complain about. Either they're seeing something completely different from what I'm seeing or they have unrealistic expectations and are just looking for something to complain about.





[quote name='DestroyerOfSenses' post='554627' date='Jun 19 2009, 09:20 AM']Hmm can you explain the brightness situation? I find that all my games turn very dark in 3D vision, so i have to bump up the brightness setting in every game to the max, but even then it's still dark. That's actually another annoying feature, since it's hard to see sometimes because of scenes being too dark.



Try offsetting the brightness by turning down gamma. That may help tamp down the overbright whites a bit.

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#9
Posted 06/19/2009 01:36 PM   
Every day I am more sceptical on what I read in this forum. Some statistics on how many personnel of Nvidia write in this forum without it is known?

Certain questions are never answered by objectivity, and all the faults are relativized always. And then when someone buys takes the surprise. I am reading in another forums and the people speak more on disadvantages, and here the disadvantages always make up.
Every day I am more sceptical on what I read in this forum. Some statistics on how many personnel of Nvidia write in this forum without it is known?



Certain questions are never answered by objectivity, and all the faults are relativized always. And then when someone buys takes the surprise. I am reading in another forums and the people speak more on disadvantages, and here the disadvantages always make up.

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#10
Posted 06/19/2009 02:24 PM   
[quote name='b4thman' post='554662' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:24 AM']Every day I am more sceptical on what I read in this forum. Some statistics on how many personnel of Nvidia write in this forum without it is known?

Certain questions are never answered by objectivity, and all the faults are relativized always. And then when someone buys takes the surprise. I am reading in another forums and the people speak more on disadvantages, and here the disadvantages always make up.[/quote]

That's because people post crazy complaints, IMO.

"It hurts my eyes if I set it at 100%." -- then don't set it at 100%.

"It's too bright & I get ghosting if I turn the brightness up all the way." -- then don't turn the brightness up all the way.

"It hurts when I punch myself in the eye." -- then don't punch yourself in the eye.

;) LOL


Is 3dV perfect? No. Is there ghosting? Yes. Is it a deal-breaker? No. Is it still the best stereo 3d experience out there? Yes. Is it the biggest thing to happen to gaming since the transition from 2d to 3d graphics? Yes.

I, for one, have made numerous complaints about the bright flashes/blinking, which I get all too frequently. Other than that, though, I had realistic expectations of what the system would do, and it has at least met if not exceeded those expectations. I'm a happy customer. :)

The people here on this board would a] tend to be actual users (why else would we come here?) & b] be fans of the technology (why else would we come here?). Of course if you'd rather believe people's negative comments on other messageboards that do not cater to people who actually own 3d Vision, be our guest.
[quote name='b4thman' post='554662' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:24 AM']Every day I am more sceptical on what I read in this forum. Some statistics on how many personnel of Nvidia write in this forum without it is known?



Certain questions are never answered by objectivity, and all the faults are relativized always. And then when someone buys takes the surprise. I am reading in another forums and the people speak more on disadvantages, and here the disadvantages always make up.



That's because people post crazy complaints, IMO.



"It hurts my eyes if I set it at 100%." -- then don't set it at 100%.



"It's too bright & I get ghosting if I turn the brightness up all the way." -- then don't turn the brightness up all the way.



"It hurts when I punch myself in the eye." -- then don't punch yourself in the eye.



;) LOL





Is 3dV perfect? No. Is there ghosting? Yes. Is it a deal-breaker? No. Is it still the best stereo 3d experience out there? Yes. Is it the biggest thing to happen to gaming since the transition from 2d to 3d graphics? Yes.



I, for one, have made numerous complaints about the bright flashes/blinking, which I get all too frequently. Other than that, though, I had realistic expectations of what the system would do, and it has at least met if not exceeded those expectations. I'm a happy customer. :)



The people here on this board would a] tend to be actual users (why else would we come here?) & b] be fans of the technology (why else would we come here?). Of course if you'd rather believe people's negative comments on other messageboards that do not cater to people who actually own 3d Vision, be our guest.

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#11
Posted 06/19/2009 02:36 PM   
As Chris said this technology is not perfect as yet, and with the current solution we may never get rid of ghosting 100% (we would need some other means of only sending images to the left eye to the left eye and those for the right eye to the right eye, HMDs worked well with previos drivers).

There is ghosting in each and every game I play with this, sometimes more than others. sometimes i notice it most times I don't. I knew waht I was getting into before I got this Kit. And I don't regret it. I knew it wasn't perfect to begin with. So yes there is osme bad in it, but there is more good, in the end it's up to you with what you can handle and enjoy.

I would say if you aren't enjoying the experience and can't afford to put anymore effort in tweaking specific games or even waitign ot see where it goes I do understand that, and you should do what's best for you.

For me I haven't really gamed without Stereo 3d on recently. haven't even touched my PS3 in weeks to a few months because it feels like I'm missing something. there's no more WOW factor for me. It's more like "This is the way it should be"
As Chris said this technology is not perfect as yet, and with the current solution we may never get rid of ghosting 100% (we would need some other means of only sending images to the left eye to the left eye and those for the right eye to the right eye, HMDs worked well with previos drivers).



There is ghosting in each and every game I play with this, sometimes more than others. sometimes i notice it most times I don't. I knew waht I was getting into before I got this Kit. And I don't regret it. I knew it wasn't perfect to begin with. So yes there is osme bad in it, but there is more good, in the end it's up to you with what you can handle and enjoy.



I would say if you aren't enjoying the experience and can't afford to put anymore effort in tweaking specific games or even waitign ot see where it goes I do understand that, and you should do what's best for you.



For me I haven't really gamed without Stereo 3d on recently. haven't even touched my PS3 in weeks to a few months because it feels like I'm missing something. there's no more WOW factor for me. It's more like "This is the way it should be"

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#12
Posted 06/19/2009 02:52 PM   
The juice is worth the squeeze. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
The juice is worth the squeeze. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#13
Posted 06/19/2009 03:01 PM   
[quote name='b4thman' post='554662' date='Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM']Every day I am more sceptical on what I read in this forum. Some statistics on how many personnel of Nvidia write in this forum without it is known?

Certain questions are never answered by objectivity, and all the faults are relativized always. And then when someone buys takes the surprise. I am reading in another forums and the people speak more on disadvantages, and here the disadvantages always make up.[/quote]

All, imho:

What many mind-sets do is lock on negatives and understandable -- and if you're looking for perfection or a mind-set that doesn't enjoy to tweak some-what -- you may be disappointed -- not every GeForce 3d Vision owner will be happy. I personally believe heavily in raising limitations so an end-user doesn't receive those "negative" surprises that give them that feeling they did get taken advantage of and actually get angry.

However, with limitations -- this technology is very impressive and raises the bar of immersion dramatically to many mind-sets and is a viable and exciting choice for gamers that are gaming experience driven. There are some gamers that only desire to play games and others that desire to experience them -- this feature delivers this. As with an early adoption process - there are hurdles to over-come -- technology from software to hardware to mature and improve -- but if one can't handle this -- well, be patient, wait to see if things improve to more of a mind-set's liking.

There is cross-talk and the more you add depth separation -- the more it may be noticed. The middle of the screen where most of the eye-sight line is-is actually impressive but toward the top and bottom of the screens there is more noticeable separation for some eyes -- a lot of this may be addressed by adding convergence to find the right balance and the key to some - balance. Every title may be a bit different so you have to experiment a bit with depth separation and convergence.

Words are the toughest thing when it comes to this technology and you may need to see first-hand and play around because you don't know what to believe and understandable. You may desire a jump in immersion but don't want to be stuck and paid monies for a ghosting mess.

Personally enjoy it but my mind-set is more lower depth separation with more convergence while others enjoy more depth separation but there is flexibility -- and hopefully improved abilities as this matures over time.
[quote name='b4thman' post='554662' date='Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM']Every day I am more sceptical on what I read in this forum. Some statistics on how many personnel of Nvidia write in this forum without it is known?



Certain questions are never answered by objectivity, and all the faults are relativized always. And then when someone buys takes the surprise. I am reading in another forums and the people speak more on disadvantages, and here the disadvantages always make up.



All, imho:



What many mind-sets do is lock on negatives and understandable -- and if you're looking for perfection or a mind-set that doesn't enjoy to tweak some-what -- you may be disappointed -- not every GeForce 3d Vision owner will be happy. I personally believe heavily in raising limitations so an end-user doesn't receive those "negative" surprises that give them that feeling they did get taken advantage of and actually get angry.



However, with limitations -- this technology is very impressive and raises the bar of immersion dramatically to many mind-sets and is a viable and exciting choice for gamers that are gaming experience driven. There are some gamers that only desire to play games and others that desire to experience them -- this feature delivers this. As with an early adoption process - there are hurdles to over-come -- technology from software to hardware to mature and improve -- but if one can't handle this -- well, be patient, wait to see if things improve to more of a mind-set's liking.



There is cross-talk and the more you add depth separation -- the more it may be noticed. The middle of the screen where most of the eye-sight line is-is actually impressive but toward the top and bottom of the screens there is more noticeable separation for some eyes -- a lot of this may be addressed by adding convergence to find the right balance and the key to some - balance. Every title may be a bit different so you have to experiment a bit with depth separation and convergence.



Words are the toughest thing when it comes to this technology and you may need to see first-hand and play around because you don't know what to believe and understandable. You may desire a jump in immersion but don't want to be stuck and paid monies for a ghosting mess.



Personally enjoy it but my mind-set is more lower depth separation with more convergence while others enjoy more depth separation but there is flexibility -- and hopefully improved abilities as this matures over time.

#14
Posted 06/19/2009 03:33 PM   
Well put, SirPauly. (I'm too cranky today to have said it that thoughtfully LOL)
Well put, SirPauly. (I'm too cranky today to have said it that thoughtfully LOL)

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#15
Posted 06/19/2009 03:42 PM   
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