Ghosting issues with 3D Vision kit + bundle
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[url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907"]http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907[/url]

Ghosting issue appears to be resolved with above equipment, using DIY circuitry to adjust the timing, or just use use crystal eyes glasses with nvidia emitter. Also there is timing adjustment in nvidia s3d drivers that is not implemented unless you make registry changes. Has anyone tried to adjust these timings this way:

[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=80226&st=0&p=504076&#entry504076"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...mp;#entry504076[/url]

Then I thought about the other entries: GlassesDelayPlus/Minus. I eventually realized these
represented keystroke combinations for hotkeys. I edited the registry values switching them
with GammaAdjustMore/Less and looked at the nvidia stereo control settings. This showed
me that increase/decrease gamma keystrokes were now mapped to Alt-equals and Alt-minus.
After resetting the default values for these things I started nvsttest and tried increasing the
GlassesSwitchDelay using the GlassesDelayPlus hotkey (Alt-=). Eventually the 3d reversed
and Alt-minus brought it back to normal. Hurray!
End Story.


Conclusion: Just hit Alt-= until the 3d switches or edit the registry setting GlassesSwitchDelay
to over 30 or something. Again this may only work with newer versions. I still have to try
this with older ones. Creating that entry if it doesn't exist may work but I doubt it.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907



Ghosting issue appears to be resolved with above equipment, using DIY circuitry to adjust the timing, or just use use crystal eyes glasses with nvidia emitter. Also there is timing adjustment in nvidia s3d drivers that is not implemented unless you make registry changes. Has anyone tried to adjust these timings this way:



http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...mp;#entry504076



Then I thought about the other entries: GlassesDelayPlus/Minus. I eventually realized these

represented keystroke combinations for hotkeys. I edited the registry values switching them

with GammaAdjustMore/Less and looked at the nvidia stereo control settings. This showed

me that increase/decrease gamma keystrokes were now mapped to Alt-equals and Alt-minus.

After resetting the default values for these things I started nvsttest and tried increasing the

GlassesSwitchDelay using the GlassesDelayPlus hotkey (Alt-=). Eventually the 3d reversed

and Alt-minus brought it back to normal. Hurray!

End Story.





Conclusion: Just hit Alt-= until the 3d switches or edit the registry setting GlassesSwitchDelay

to over 30 or something. Again this may only work with newer versions. I still have to try

this with older ones. Creating that entry if it doesn't exist may work but I doubt it.

#31
Posted 02/21/2009 08:41 AM   
Hey folks

Maybe I'm a little late.
But I think I know a good test to know if the (not fully) darkening of the glasses is the problem.

Hold your glasses right before your monitor at the place where you see ghosting, and look if the ghosting is (lots) worse at the border of the glasses than the centre of the glasses.

Don't have 3d Vision yet (use a Zalman), so I can't test it myself.
Hey folks



Maybe I'm a little late.

But I think I know a good test to know if the (not fully) darkening of the glasses is the problem.



Hold your glasses right before your monitor at the place where you see ghosting, and look if the ghosting is (lots) worse at the border of the glasses than the centre of the glasses.



Don't have 3d Vision yet (use a Zalman), so I can't test it myself.

My system:
3d Vision CD 1.07
2233RZ+Nvidia Glasses
8800GT 512MB
P965 chipset
Core 2 Duo E6600
1050x1680+2x 1680x1050 in clone mode (One of them via a USB graphics card)

#32
Posted 03/24/2009 09:12 PM   
[quote name='martinlandau' post='508644' date='Feb 21 2009, 08:41 AM'][url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907"]http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907[/url]



Conclusion: Just hit Alt-= until the 3d switches or edit the registry setting GlassesSwitchDelay
to over 30 or something. Again this may only work with newer versions. I still have to try
this with older ones. Creating that entry if it doesn't exist may work but I doubt it.[/quote]

testing
[quote name='martinlandau' post='508644' date='Feb 21 2009, 08:41 AM']http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907







Conclusion: Just hit Alt-= until the 3d switches or edit the registry setting GlassesSwitchDelay

to over 30 or something. Again this may only work with newer versions. I still have to try

this with older ones. Creating that entry if it doesn't exist may work but I doubt it.



testing

#33
Posted 03/24/2009 09:47 PM   
[quote name='theironman12' post='522418' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:47 PM']testing[/quote]

And... does it work? (Your monitor doesn't have to warm up for 2 days xD)
[quote name='theironman12' post='522418' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:47 PM']testing



And... does it work? (Your monitor doesn't have to warm up for 2 days xD)

My system:
3d Vision CD 1.07
2233RZ+Nvidia Glasses
8800GT 512MB
P965 chipset
Core 2 Duo E6600
1050x1680+2x 1680x1050 in clone mode (One of them via a USB graphics card)

#34
Posted 03/26/2009 09:59 AM   
I have a 2233RZ, is this still an issue?
I have a 2233RZ, is this still an issue?

#35
Posted 09/07/2009 05:00 PM   
Ghosting problem has been discussed over and over here [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=104900"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=104900[/url] and here [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261&st=40&start=40"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...40&start=40[/url]
I also talked with Technical Support ... and the solution? ... yeah change the kit

This is very irritating... If I could have known from the beggining I will have waited until NVIDIA solves this issues.
Ghosting problem has been discussed over and over here http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=104900 and here http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...40&start=40

I also talked with Technical Support ... and the solution? ... yeah change the kit



This is very irritating... If I could have known from the beggining I will have waited until NVIDIA solves this issues.

CASE: ThermalTake Armor+
CPU: Phenom II 720 X3
GPU: BFG Geforce GTX 295 REV B
RAM: 2 GB Corsair DDR3-1333 CL9
MB: ASUS Crosshair III Formula
PSU: Tagan Piperock 600 W
HDD: Seagate Baracuda 7200.12 1TB
SOUND: Creative X-Fi
DISPLAY: Samsung 2233RZ + Geforce 3D Vision

#36
Posted 09/08/2009 09:06 AM   
I have ghosting too, in about every game. Ghosting will probably never be solved with this kit. And it pretty much sucks :(
I have ghosting too, in about every game. Ghosting will probably never be solved with this kit. And it pretty much sucks :(

#37
Posted 09/08/2009 07:24 PM   
[quote name='bartdesign' post='586238' date='Sep 8 2009, 10:24 PM']I have ghosting too, in about every game. Ghosting will probably never be solved with this kit. And it pretty much sucks :([/quote]

Well the big problem we encounter is not the Ghosting that is game dependent. As you see every game has different effects that are not displayed correctly and that is the ghost everybody is complaining.
But lets be honest there is no 3D game that was built for full compatibility with 3D Vision, so don't expect any change to the actual games. If you want to play the current games you can play them with several options turned off and enjoy the 3D experience as it is. I really appreciate the work NVIDIA has done. The technology is very well implemented but not for the current games(fully).

The big problem with the kit [b]is not the game dependent ghosting[/b] [b]but the hardware dependent[/b].
You see I and many other people who bought the kit have ghosting on entire screen, or on half of it, or a xx% of the screen that is caused by defective kit because the 2 images in stereoscopic mode do not converge.


So I say you can not complain because you see ghosting from time to time while playing games, it's normal , today's games were not built for 3D Vision.
If you have a hardware ghosting issue...welcome to the club.
[quote name='bartdesign' post='586238' date='Sep 8 2009, 10:24 PM']I have ghosting too, in about every game. Ghosting will probably never be solved with this kit. And it pretty much sucks :(



Well the big problem we encounter is not the Ghosting that is game dependent. As you see every game has different effects that are not displayed correctly and that is the ghost everybody is complaining.

But lets be honest there is no 3D game that was built for full compatibility with 3D Vision, so don't expect any change to the actual games. If you want to play the current games you can play them with several options turned off and enjoy the 3D experience as it is. I really appreciate the work NVIDIA has done. The technology is very well implemented but not for the current games(fully).



The big problem with the kit is not the game dependent ghosting but the hardware dependent.

You see I and many other people who bought the kit have ghosting on entire screen, or on half of it, or a xx% of the screen that is caused by defective kit because the 2 images in stereoscopic mode do not converge.





So I say you can not complain because you see ghosting from time to time while playing games, it's normal , today's games were not built for 3D Vision.

If you have a hardware ghosting issue...welcome to the club.

CASE: ThermalTake Armor+
CPU: Phenom II 720 X3
GPU: BFG Geforce GTX 295 REV B
RAM: 2 GB Corsair DDR3-1333 CL9
MB: ASUS Crosshair III Formula
PSU: Tagan Piperock 600 W
HDD: Seagate Baracuda 7200.12 1TB
SOUND: Creative X-Fi
DISPLAY: Samsung 2233RZ + Geforce 3D Vision

#38
Posted 09/08/2009 08:49 PM   
[quote name='x_phir3' post='586251' date='Sep 8 2009, 09:49 PM']Well the big problem we encounter is not the Ghosting that is game dependent. As you see every game has different effects that are not displayed correctly and that is the ghost everybody is complaining.
But lets be honest there is no 3D game that was built for full compatibility with 3D Vision, so don't expect any change to the actual games. If you want to play the current games you can play them with several options turned off and enjoy the 3D experience as it is. I really appreciate the work NVIDIA has done. The technology is very well implemented but not for the current games(fully).

The big problem with the kit [b]is not the game dependent ghosting[/b] [b]but the hardware dependent[/b].
You see I and many other people who bought the kit have ghosting on entire screen, or on half of it, or a xx% of the screen that is caused by defective kit because the 2 images in stereoscopic mode do not converge.


So I say you can not complain because you see ghosting from time to time while playing games, it's normal , today's games were not built for 3D Vision.
If you have a hardware ghosting issue...welcome to the club.[/quote]

Trust me it's the hardware. I got more than enough experience to see which is software and which is hardware. The top part screen always ghosts. De rest depends on the colors, allot of white on black ghosts too. And i've got 2 kits here, they both have the same problems! Does not matter which game you play.
[quote name='x_phir3' post='586251' date='Sep 8 2009, 09:49 PM']Well the big problem we encounter is not the Ghosting that is game dependent. As you see every game has different effects that are not displayed correctly and that is the ghost everybody is complaining.

But lets be honest there is no 3D game that was built for full compatibility with 3D Vision, so don't expect any change to the actual games. If you want to play the current games you can play them with several options turned off and enjoy the 3D experience as it is. I really appreciate the work NVIDIA has done. The technology is very well implemented but not for the current games(fully).



The big problem with the kit is not the game dependent ghosting but the hardware dependent.

You see I and many other people who bought the kit have ghosting on entire screen, or on half of it, or a xx% of the screen that is caused by defective kit because the 2 images in stereoscopic mode do not converge.





So I say you can not complain because you see ghosting from time to time while playing games, it's normal , today's games were not built for 3D Vision.

If you have a hardware ghosting issue...welcome to the club.



Trust me it's the hardware. I got more than enough experience to see which is software and which is hardware. The top part screen always ghosts. De rest depends on the colors, allot of white on black ghosts too. And i've got 2 kits here, they both have the same problems! Does not matter which game you play.

#39
Posted 09/09/2009 07:20 AM   
[quote name='bartdesign' post='586338' date='Sep 9 2009, 05:20 PM']Trust me it's the hardware. I got more than enough experience to see which is software and which is hardware. The top part screen always ghosts. De rest depends on the colors, allot of white on black ghosts too. And i've got 2 kits here, they both have the same problems! Does not matter which game you play.[/quote]

By two kits do you mean to sets of samsung 2233rz monitors and glasses or just two sets of glasses? I'm keen to know whether the top of screen ghosting problem is solved by replacing the samsung 2233rz
[quote name='bartdesign' post='586338' date='Sep 9 2009, 05:20 PM']Trust me it's the hardware. I got more than enough experience to see which is software and which is hardware. The top part screen always ghosts. De rest depends on the colors, allot of white on black ghosts too. And i've got 2 kits here, they both have the same problems! Does not matter which game you play.



By two kits do you mean to sets of samsung 2233rz monitors and glasses or just two sets of glasses? I'm keen to know whether the top of screen ghosting problem is solved by replacing the samsung 2233rz

#40
Posted 09/09/2009 07:54 AM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='498692' date='Jan 29 2009, 05:54 PM']Hi There,

Ok a few ideas to start with.

1. Have you ensured that the Dynamic Contrast on the monitor's Magic Bright setting is off? We will be adding an FAQ on this soon. Basically Dynamic Contrast adjusts the backlight dynamically depending on the scene which can interfere with the 3D effect. Leave it off when you run 3D Vision.

2. How long are you allowing your monitor to warm up before during your critical viewing? Most LCDs need at least 15-30 mins to properly warm up.

Any feedback would be appreciated.[/quote]

I am using the new Alienware 120 hz AW2310 monitor and Dynamic contrast is grey'd out and it won't let me disable it. What should I do? I too am getting the ghosting effect. Not on all games but specifically Mass Effect 2. Batman looks great. Thanks
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='498692' date='Jan 29 2009, 05:54 PM']Hi There,



Ok a few ideas to start with.



1. Have you ensured that the Dynamic Contrast on the monitor's Magic Bright setting is off? We will be adding an FAQ on this soon. Basically Dynamic Contrast adjusts the backlight dynamically depending on the scene which can interfere with the 3D effect. Leave it off when you run 3D Vision.



2. How long are you allowing your monitor to warm up before during your critical viewing? Most LCDs need at least 15-30 mins to properly warm up.



Any feedback would be appreciated.



I am using the new Alienware 120 hz AW2310 monitor and Dynamic contrast is grey'd out and it won't let me disable it. What should I do? I too am getting the ghosting effect. Not on all games but specifically Mass Effect 2. Batman looks great. Thanks

#41
Posted 02/15/2010 10:44 PM   
Last week I have bought an Acer Aspire GD245HQ monitor to use with my new Nvidia 3D Vision kit.
I'm experiencing ghosting issues too but undoubtedly they are hardware related and I presume it is the same with all other monitor models an producers currently on the market.
I've come to this conclusion after several tests:

- Reducing shutter speed basically reduces the problem
- Reducing contrast also greatly reduces the ghosting effect

This means that our monitors are unable to refresh images at a speed of 120Hz, especially those parts where there are colors in contrast (such as black on white, yellow on blue and so on...)

On my GD245HQ I'm now using the following setup:

- Contrast reduced from default 50% to only 12% (colors are less incisive but still acceptable)
- Color temperature changed from "warm" to "cool"
- Nvidia 3d Vision Kit refresh rate set to 100Hz

Ghosting issues are almost absent on the whole screen surface and with every game, 3D picture or 3D video I have tested so far.

Just my 2 cents...
Last week I have bought an Acer Aspire GD245HQ monitor to use with my new Nvidia 3D Vision kit.

I'm experiencing ghosting issues too but undoubtedly they are hardware related and I presume it is the same with all other monitor models an producers currently on the market.

I've come to this conclusion after several tests:



- Reducing shutter speed basically reduces the problem

- Reducing contrast also greatly reduces the ghosting effect



This means that our monitors are unable to refresh images at a speed of 120Hz, especially those parts where there are colors in contrast (such as black on white, yellow on blue and so on...)



On my GD245HQ I'm now using the following setup:



- Contrast reduced from default 50% to only 12% (colors are less incisive but still acceptable)

- Color temperature changed from "warm" to "cool"

- Nvidia 3d Vision Kit refresh rate set to 100Hz



Ghosting issues are almost absent on the whole screen surface and with every game, 3D picture or 3D video I have tested so far.



Just my 2 cents...

#42
Posted 02/22/2010 08:51 AM   
[quote name='StarKnight' post='1005807' date='Feb 22 2010, 08:51 AM']On my GD245HQ I'm now using the following setup:

- Contrast reduced from default 50% to only 12% (colors are less incisive but still acceptable)
- Color temperature changed from "warm" to "cool"
- Nvidia 3d Vision Kit refresh rate set to 100Hz

Ghosting issues are almost absent on the whole screen surface and with every game, 3D picture or 3D video I have tested so far.

Just my 2 cents...[/quote]

If that's the case then Acer is sadly no better than Alienware. One of the games I tried also has noticeable (but still bearable for most part) ghosting at 120 Hz. If I reduce the refresh rate to 110 Hz it still there but easier to ignore. Further reducing the refresh to 100 Hz causes the ghosting to dissapear, but then the flicker becomes annoying.

Ah well, I guess we have to wait for LCD with response time shorter than 1 ms...

In the meantime though the problem could be substantially reduced with a firmware/software update that allows you to slightly adjust A. the sync between display and glasses, and B. the shutters opening time. That would further reduce the brightness but I bet it's a compromise many users will gladly make (particularly those with Alienware). Add to that auto-convergence and 90% of the complaints here will cease. Why nvidia hasn't released this after 1 year baffles me...
[quote name='StarKnight' post='1005807' date='Feb 22 2010, 08:51 AM']On my GD245HQ I'm now using the following setup:



- Contrast reduced from default 50% to only 12% (colors are less incisive but still acceptable)

- Color temperature changed from "warm" to "cool"

- Nvidia 3d Vision Kit refresh rate set to 100Hz



Ghosting issues are almost absent on the whole screen surface and with every game, 3D picture or 3D video I have tested so far.



Just my 2 cents...



If that's the case then Acer is sadly no better than Alienware. One of the games I tried also has noticeable (but still bearable for most part) ghosting at 120 Hz. If I reduce the refresh rate to 110 Hz it still there but easier to ignore. Further reducing the refresh to 100 Hz causes the ghosting to dissapear, but then the flicker becomes annoying.



Ah well, I guess we have to wait for LCD with response time shorter than 1 ms...



In the meantime though the problem could be substantially reduced with a firmware/software update that allows you to slightly adjust A. the sync between display and glasses, and B. the shutters opening time. That would further reduce the brightness but I bet it's a compromise many users will gladly make (particularly those with Alienware). Add to that auto-convergence and 90% of the complaints here will cease. Why nvidia hasn't released this after 1 year baffles me...

#43
Posted 02/22/2010 01:54 PM   
[quote name='rfowlerm3' post='1001981' date='Feb 15 2010, 10:44 PM']I am using the new Alienware 120 hz AW2310 monitor and Dynamic contrast is grey'd out and it won't let me disable it. What should I do? I too am getting the ghosting effect. Not on all games but specifically Mass Effect 2. Batman looks great. Thanks[/quote]

sorry for the consecutive posting.
In case you haven't figured it out yourself already, you have to go to the display Menu -> Color settings ->Preset modes and select Game. Then, if you go to Menu -> Display Settings and you are able now to turn off dynamic contrasta. Voila :D
Also please make sure "Response time" is set to "overdrive" instead of "normal". That's probably the default option as long as you're in gaming mode.
This might help a bit, but don't expect miracles. Also lower the refresh rate to 110 Hz ;). By that I mean not just the monitor refresh rate, but also the 3D vision refresh rate (either from the nvidia control panel or by re-running the 3D vision wizard).
[quote name='rfowlerm3' post='1001981' date='Feb 15 2010, 10:44 PM']I am using the new Alienware 120 hz AW2310 monitor and Dynamic contrast is grey'd out and it won't let me disable it. What should I do? I too am getting the ghosting effect. Not on all games but specifically Mass Effect 2. Batman looks great. Thanks



sorry for the consecutive posting.

In case you haven't figured it out yourself already, you have to go to the display Menu -> Color settings ->Preset modes and select Game. Then, if you go to Menu -> Display Settings and you are able now to turn off dynamic contrasta. Voila :D

Also please make sure "Response time" is set to "overdrive" instead of "normal". That's probably the default option as long as you're in gaming mode.

This might help a bit, but don't expect miracles. Also lower the refresh rate to 110 Hz ;). By that I mean not just the monitor refresh rate, but also the 3D vision refresh rate (either from the nvidia control panel or by re-running the 3D vision wizard).

#44
Posted 02/23/2010 02:01 AM   
[quote name='abramburici' post='1005922' date='Feb 22 2010, 01:54 PM']Ah well, I guess we have to wait for LCD with response time shorter than 1 ms...[/quote]
Just shows what a load of BS LCD specs are. To do 120 Hz without ghosting a screen only needs a response time of 8.3 ms. It's laughable that they call these screens 2/3 ms, they're nowhere near that. It's like the 20,000:1 or even 80,000:1 'dynamic' contrast ratios, they're complete marketting BS - you're lucky if you get 800:1 static contrast ratio out of an LCD.

LCD as a tech still has the same flaws as when it was introduced, slow pixel response and desperately poor black depth.
[quote name='abramburici' post='1005922' date='Feb 22 2010, 01:54 PM']Ah well, I guess we have to wait for LCD with response time shorter than 1 ms...

Just shows what a load of BS LCD specs are. To do 120 Hz without ghosting a screen only needs a response time of 8.3 ms. It's laughable that they call these screens 2/3 ms, they're nowhere near that. It's like the 20,000:1 or even 80,000:1 'dynamic' contrast ratios, they're complete marketting BS - you're lucky if you get 800:1 static contrast ratio out of an LCD.



LCD as a tech still has the same flaws as when it was introduced, slow pixel response and desperately poor black depth.

#45
Posted 02/23/2010 02:39 PM   
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