Is there a future for 3D Vision? (the hardware version)
  6 / 9    
[quote="masterotaku"]I gave him a sad look and told him that the last 3D Vision 2 monitor was the Asus PG278Q and that there aren't any future monitors with it in plans, unless the Acer Z35 surprisingly has it or something.[/quote]I want to get into 3D Vision and the Acer Z35 looks perfect for me. So if a monitor supports true 120Hz or 144Hz refresh rates, but isn't stamped "3D Vision Ready", can 3D Vision still be used? From what I understand, being G-Sync means the Z35 will have LightBoost equiv (as well as 144Hz), but G-Sync doesn't work yet with 3D Vision, so can LightBoost usually be turned on without G-Sync and have 3D Vision run on a non-"ready" screen? Edit: OK, looks like this question [url=https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/874114/acer-predator-z35-possible-3d-capable-/]has its own thread[/url].
masterotaku said:I gave him a sad look and told him that the last 3D Vision 2 monitor was the Asus PG278Q and that there aren't any future monitors with it in plans, unless the Acer Z35 surprisingly has it or something.
I want to get into 3D Vision and the Acer Z35 looks perfect for me. So if a monitor supports true 120Hz or 144Hz refresh rates, but isn't stamped "3D Vision Ready", can 3D Vision still be used?

From what I understand, being G-Sync means the Z35 will have LightBoost equiv (as well as 144Hz), but G-Sync doesn't work yet with 3D Vision, so can LightBoost usually be turned on without G-Sync and have 3D Vision run on a non-"ready" screen?

Edit: OK, looks like this question has its own thread.

#76
Posted 11/30/2015 08:08 AM   
[quote="bo3b"][quote="bo3b"]Pretty sure that this H5380BD would work with an EDID override. The menu setup is identical to my H5360, just a slightly different look. It actually has a 3D Vision option in the menu, which I've never understood on the H5360, as I never needed it, and turning it on makes it miscommunicate. If the default mode is DLP however, this might make more sense to put it into 3D Vision mode, and be able to use 3D Vision glasses directly. Not fully clear, but there is menu choice for "3D Vision", and as you know 3D TV Play is just DLP mode as far as the projector is concerned. On sale today only- $300: [url]http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H5380BD-720p-Theater-Projector/dp/B00I0VRE6E/[/url][/quote] Got this projector and hooked it up. The short story is that it works just fine, for either 3D Vision, or 3D TV Play. The answer to the question about the manual is that things are even more lame now than they were. The manual has not been updated for the new projector, which is why it's confusing. The on screen UI looks completely different, and is not documented at all. Gotta love that no one even bothers to have it make sense nowadays. It only works as 3D TV Play out of the box, it's not a certified projector. You can't get into the menus to switch it, even though the manual says you should be able to, they are greyed out. 3D TV Play for both HDMI and VGA connections works. If I set an EDID override for an H5360 projector, it goes back to working normally as 3D Vision, using 3D Vision glasses. No visual difference between this H5380BD and an older H5360, although this one is brighter because the bulb is newer. 120Hz works like you'd expect, and does not dim as much, or get slightly blurry like the H5360. So... the answer to the thread is that, yes, there is a future for even the hardware. It's not labeled properly, but this projector is on the shelves today, brand new, and works exactly like an H5360. So, we are fine on the projector front for at least a few more years.[/quote] Slightly related to this. I currently have cheap 1080p projector, optoma hd26. It works in both 3d vision and 3dtvplay mode. 3D vision support needs EDID(i used optoma hd67n, hd66 US model) override to work. Obviously it works at 120hz@720p. BUT the eye sync is wrong and glasses need to be upside down. If i enable 3d mode on the projector and choose vesa3d(dlp link is other option but it destroys image with its flash), it corrects the sync issue. However, it brings up another issue, i see weird black artifact flashing in some games in the middle of the screen, 20-50 pixels wide. Its not there for the most part or in most games ive tried but in dishonored for example i can reproduce the artifact in a very specific spot in the game. It vanishes if i move a little or if i disable the projector 3d and turn the glasses upside down. Pretty weird. It happens so rarely that i could probably use it like that, but i find glasses to be comfortable wearing them upside down so why not. Well, after a little mod i made. 3dtv play doesnt have any issues and i actually have glasses for it too but prefer nvidia glasses. Similar experience with benq w1070, without the eye sync issue, Acer 5360 inf. Worked like a charm when i tested that. It actually worked at 1600x900@120hz custom resolution which was clear improvement over 720p@120hz. Also i think image is more pleasant to watch on the 1080p projectors, even though the resolution is the same, due to higher pixel density. I use my hd26 over hd67n because of that, both are actually mounted on the same screen. Shame nvidia doesnt have top botton and side by side mode, cause i think they look much better on a 1080p projector compared to 720p@120hz. Tested with tridef.
bo3b said:
bo3b said:Pretty sure that this H5380BD would work with an EDID override. The menu setup is identical to my H5360, just a slightly different look. It actually has a 3D Vision option in the menu, which I've never understood on the H5360, as I never needed it, and turning it on makes it miscommunicate. If the default mode is DLP however, this might make more sense to put it into 3D Vision mode, and be able to use 3D Vision glasses directly.

Not fully clear, but there is menu choice for "3D Vision", and as you know 3D TV Play is just DLP mode as far as the projector is concerned.

On sale today only- $300: http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H5380BD-720p-Theater-Projector/dp/B00I0VRE6E/

Got this projector and hooked it up. The short story is that it works just fine, for either 3D Vision, or 3D TV Play.

The answer to the question about the manual is that things are even more lame now than they were. The manual has not been updated for the new projector, which is why it's confusing. The on screen UI looks completely different, and is not documented at all. Gotta love that no one even bothers to have it make sense nowadays.

It only works as 3D TV Play out of the box, it's not a certified projector. You can't get into the menus to switch it, even though the manual says you should be able to, they are greyed out. 3D TV Play for both HDMI and VGA connections works.

If I set an EDID override for an H5360 projector, it goes back to working normally as 3D Vision, using 3D Vision glasses. No visual difference between this H5380BD and an older H5360, although this one is brighter because the bulb is newer. 120Hz works like you'd expect, and does not dim as much, or get slightly blurry like the H5360.


So... the answer to the thread is that, yes, there is a future for even the hardware. It's not labeled properly, but this projector is on the shelves today, brand new, and works exactly like an H5360. So, we are fine on the projector front for at least a few more years.


Slightly related to this. I currently have cheap 1080p projector, optoma hd26. It works in both 3d vision and 3dtvplay mode. 3D vision support needs EDID(i used optoma hd67n, hd66 US model) override to work. Obviously it works at 120hz@720p. BUT the eye sync is wrong and glasses need to be upside down.

If i enable 3d mode on the projector and choose vesa3d(dlp link is other option but it destroys image with its flash), it corrects the sync issue. However, it brings up another issue, i see weird black artifact flashing in some games in the middle of the screen, 20-50 pixels wide. Its not there for the most part or in most games ive tried but in dishonored for example i can reproduce the artifact in a very specific spot in the game. It vanishes if i move a little or if i disable the projector 3d and turn the glasses upside down. Pretty weird. It happens so rarely that i could probably use it like that, but i find glasses to be comfortable wearing them upside down so why not. Well, after a little mod i made. 3dtv play doesnt have any issues and i actually have glasses for it too but prefer nvidia glasses.

Similar experience with benq w1070, without the eye sync issue, Acer 5360 inf. Worked like a charm when i tested that. It actually worked at 1600x900@120hz custom resolution which was clear improvement over 720p@120hz. Also i think image is more pleasant to watch on the 1080p projectors, even though the resolution is the same, due to higher pixel density. I use my hd26 over hd67n because of that, both are actually mounted on the same screen. Shame nvidia doesnt have top botton and side by side mode, cause i think they look much better on a 1080p projector compared to 720p@120hz. Tested with tridef.

#77
Posted 11/30/2015 09:26 AM   
@bo3b AFAIK, the majority of projectors and TVs use OpenSource code. LG has a distribution site for theirs http://opensource.lge.com/index As far as the 3D Vision option in the menu, that is simply to toggle DLP Link flash on or off. @sammy123 I agree, that wearing the Nvidia glasses upside down is very comfortable and works better with my distance glasses, since it forces them to sit up higher. What I find interesting, is the LED pico projectors using the dmd 0.45 chip. They have diamond pixels and use a conversion algorithm on all of the incoming video to convert the pixel structure from square to diamond. Two problems, fans tend to be louder and lenses tend to be cheap and slightly blurry in certain areas of the screen. But when given a 1080P source, the picture is quite good due to the conversion algoritm. Because of this I use a Nvidia's Custom Resolution of 1920x1080 pixels set to 720P active pixels to get games downsampled. I've been using this for several years and is a nice trade of vs using my 1080P Acer. What's nice is the 30,000 hr lamp life of the LED projectors, I have 12,000+ on the Viewsonic.(8,765.8 hrs in a year) I have a Viewsonic PLED-W500, LG PB60G and Acer H6510BD.
@bo3b

AFAIK, the majority of projectors and TVs use OpenSource code.
LG has a distribution site for theirs

http://opensource.lge.com/index


As far as the 3D Vision option in the menu, that is simply to toggle DLP Link flash on or off.

@sammy123

I agree, that wearing the Nvidia glasses upside down is very comfortable and works better with my distance glasses, since it forces them to sit up higher.

What I find interesting, is the LED pico projectors using the dmd 0.45 chip. They have diamond pixels and use a conversion algorithm on all of the incoming video to convert the pixel structure from square to diamond. Two problems, fans tend to be louder and lenses tend to be cheap and slightly blurry in certain areas of the screen. But when given a 1080P source, the picture is quite good due to the conversion algoritm. Because of this I use a Nvidia's Custom Resolution of 1920x1080 pixels set to 720P active pixels to get games downsampled. I've been using this for several years and is a nice trade of vs using my 1080P Acer. What's nice is the 30,000 hr lamp life of the LED projectors, I have 12,000+ on the Viewsonic.(8,765.8 hrs in a year)

I have a Viewsonic PLED-W500, LG PB60G and Acer H6510BD.

#78
Posted 11/30/2015 01:52 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]@bo3b AFAIK, the majority of projectors and TVs use OpenSource code. LG has a distribution site for theirs http://opensource.lge.com/index As far as the 3D Vision option in the menu, that is simply to toggle DLP Link flash on or off. @sammy123 I agree, that wearing the Nvidia glasses upside down is very comfortable and works better with my distance glasses, since it forces them to sit up higher. What I find interesting, is the LED pico projectors using the dmd 0.45 chip. They have diamond pixels and use a conversion algorithm on all of the incoming video to convert the pixel structure from square to diamond. Two problems, fans tend to be louder and lenses tend to be cheap and slightly blurry in certain areas of the screen. But when given a 1080P source, the picture is quite good due to the conversion algoritm. Because of this I use a Nvidia's Custom Resolution of 1920x1080 pixels set to 720P active pixels to get games downsampled. I've been using this for several years and is a nice trade of vs using my 1080P Acer. What's nice is the 30,000 hr lamp life of the LED projectors, I have 12,000+ on the Viewsonic.(8,765.8 hrs in a year) I have a Viewsonic PLED-W500, LG PB60G and Acer H6510BD. [/quote] So you have two 3D LED projectors? Honestly, I never even knew these existed. Doing a bit of googling, it seems like the Viewsonic has reasonable input lag numbers. Do you have to do an EDID over ride for it? Or do you use 3D Play? I'm very curious about this. Which of the two do you like better? Do you use them a lot for 3D gaming? Darkness isn't an issue (in 3D)? Appreciate any response. Thanks.
D-Man11 said:@bo3b

AFAIK, the majority of projectors and TVs use OpenSource code.
LG has a distribution site for theirs

http://opensource.lge.com/index


As far as the 3D Vision option in the menu, that is simply to toggle DLP Link flash on or off.

@sammy123

I agree, that wearing the Nvidia glasses upside down is very comfortable and works better with my distance glasses, since it forces them to sit up higher.

What I find interesting, is the LED pico projectors using the dmd 0.45 chip. They have diamond pixels and use a conversion algorithm on all of the incoming video to convert the pixel structure from square to diamond. Two problems, fans tend to be louder and lenses tend to be cheap and slightly blurry in certain areas of the screen. But when given a 1080P source, the picture is quite good due to the conversion algoritm. Because of this I use a Nvidia's Custom Resolution of 1920x1080 pixels set to 720P active pixels to get games downsampled. I've been using this for several years and is a nice trade of vs using my 1080P Acer. What's nice is the 30,000 hr lamp life of the LED projectors, I have 12,000+ on the Viewsonic.(8,765.8 hrs in a year)

I have a Viewsonic PLED-W500, LG PB60G and Acer H6510BD.


So you have two 3D LED projectors? Honestly, I never even knew these existed. Doing a bit of googling, it seems like the Viewsonic has reasonable input lag numbers. Do you have to do an EDID over ride for it? Or do you use 3D Play? I'm very curious about this. Which of the two do you like better? Do you use them a lot for 3D gaming? Darkness isn't an issue (in 3D)?

Appreciate any response. Thanks.

#79
Posted 11/30/2015 05:08 PM   
The lumens on these projectors are supposedly 500 lumens, but are realisticly about 350. I have no problem playing at 120 inches in a 100% light controlled room. The PLED-W500 was my first, I have in the bedroom for lazy viewing projecting on the ceiling from a PC. I now use my VG278HE most of the time because I had mostly been playing WoW in 2D at 144Hz while watching Netflix on a JVC passive TV in 2D. I bought the LG PB60G to replace the PLED-W500 when I caught it on sale for $300. LG also has some models with OTA TV tuners in them. The PB60G is small, 4 x 6 1/4 x 1 1/4 inches, the PLED-W500 is twice the size. I use an EDID override for them with my 3D vision kit, I also have a VP-3D1 converter that can be used to input HDMI 1.4 content. But now I use the H6510BD for HDMI 1.4 stuff other than PS3 games. Lag? I've not noticed any. I've never have done any official tests. My personal test is the infamous "Double Jump", if you can not perform fluid double jumps in a game, you need to get yourself another display. Also, I project on a slightly off white lightly textured wall. One of these days, I'll smooth the texture and paint it. http://www.avsforum.com/ http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php EDIT: I should add, that these LED PJs using the DMD 0.45 chip actually have a 912 × 1140 Array of Aluminum, Micrometer-Sized Mirrors. They do support 16:10 and 16:9 resolutions very well though. I assume they use a technique similar to wobulation. http://www.ti.com/product/DLP4500 A good place to read about the newest LED projectors is over at AVSForums (Audio Video Science Forums)
The lumens on these projectors are supposedly 500 lumens, but are realisticly about 350.

I have no problem playing at 120 inches in a 100% light controlled room.

The PLED-W500 was my first, I have in the bedroom for lazy viewing projecting on the ceiling from a PC.

I now use my VG278HE most of the time because I had mostly been playing WoW in 2D at 144Hz while watching Netflix on a JVC passive TV in 2D.

I bought the LG PB60G to replace the PLED-W500 when I caught it on sale for $300. LG also has some models with OTA TV tuners in them. The PB60G is small, 4 x 6 1/4 x 1 1/4 inches, the PLED-W500 is twice the size.

I use an EDID override for them with my 3D vision kit, I also have a VP-3D1 converter that can be used to input HDMI 1.4 content. But now I use the H6510BD for HDMI 1.4 stuff other than PS3 games.

Lag? I've not noticed any. I've never have done any official tests. My personal test is the infamous "Double Jump", if you can not perform fluid double jumps in a game, you need to get yourself another display.

Also, I project on a slightly off white lightly textured wall. One of these days, I'll smooth the texture and paint it.

http://www.avsforum.com/
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php

EDIT: I should add, that these LED PJs using the DMD 0.45 chip actually have a 912 × 1140 Array of Aluminum, Micrometer-Sized Mirrors. They do support 16:10 and 16:9 resolutions very well though. I assume they use a technique similar to wobulation. http://www.ti.com/product/DLP4500

A good place to read about the newest LED projectors is over at AVSForums (Audio Video Science Forums)

#80
Posted 11/30/2015 05:38 PM   
A projector to keep your eye on, is the Acer Predator (they are really over using preadator on everything) announced a month or two ago. No specifications are currently known, but I'm hoping that we are going to finally see a 1920x1080P@120Hz somewhat affordable PJ. (I know, wishful thinking) http://www.slashgear.com/acers-predator-projector-gives-space-short-gamers-120-inches-02400493/ Projector Central does a lot of reviews and can be useful in finding information on projectors. They even have a search function. http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm
A projector to keep your eye on, is the Acer Predator (they are really over using preadator on everything) announced a month or two ago. No specifications are currently known, but I'm hoping that we are going to finally see a 1920x1080P@120Hz somewhat affordable PJ. (I know, wishful thinking)

http://www.slashgear.com/acers-predator-projector-gives-space-short-gamers-120-inches-02400493/

Projector Central does a lot of reviews and can be useful in finding information on projectors.

They even have a search function.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

#81
Posted 11/30/2015 05:50 PM   
Good info. Thanks. I tried putting in an edit, but I guess it was eaten. The Viwesonic isn't in stock at Amazon. I could have sworn Amazon had it for 5xx.xx dollars, but it must have been another model. The newer Viewsonic doesn't list 3D at all, so that's out. They had a lightening deal on a Optoma 3D LED, but some quick research showed it was kind of trash. You're right about the Predator being awesome. I remember seeing that before now that you mention it. It's the perfect projector. The obvious questions: 1.) Is it going to be priced reasonable? (It reminds me a lot of the LG Hecto Laser that debuted at 5000 dollars.) 2.) Do they consider 3D dead? Will it support it? It certainly has a ton of potential though.
Good info. Thanks.

I tried putting in an edit, but I guess it was eaten. The Viwesonic isn't in stock at Amazon. I could have sworn Amazon had it for 5xx.xx dollars, but it must have been another model. The newer Viewsonic doesn't list 3D at all, so that's out.

They had a lightening deal on a Optoma 3D LED, but some quick research showed it was kind of trash.

You're right about the Predator being awesome. I remember seeing that before now that you mention it. It's the perfect projector. The obvious questions: 1.) Is it going to be priced reasonable? (It reminds me a lot of the LG Hecto Laser that debuted at 5000 dollars.) 2.) Do they consider 3D dead? Will it support it? It certainly has a ton of potential though.

#82
Posted 11/30/2015 07:47 PM   
The PLED-W500 was released several years ago with the Optoma MLD-500 and Acer K330. They were nearly identical with just a few minor differences. The Vivitek Qumi was the first LED projector and was released about 6 months prior to these projectors if I recall correctly. These were all 500 lumen projectors. Later versions had 800-1000 lumens. Because I played older games at the time, I was really happy with the PLED-W500. Especially since frame sequential is officially limited 1280x720P by NVidia. Although with TriDef, you can use 1280x800.(you can with Nvidia using workarounds) I liked the fact of no color wheel and long light life. You'll find this interesting http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/dlpa051/dlpa051.pdf?
The PLED-W500 was released several years ago with the Optoma MLD-500 and Acer K330. They were nearly identical with just a few minor differences. The Vivitek Qumi was the first LED projector and was released about 6 months prior to these projectors if I recall correctly. These were all 500 lumen projectors. Later versions had 800-1000 lumens.

Because I played older games at the time, I was really happy with the PLED-W500. Especially since frame sequential is officially limited 1280x720P by NVidia. Although with TriDef, you can use 1280x800.(you can with Nvidia using workarounds)

I liked the fact of no color wheel and long light life.


You'll find this interesting
http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/dlpa051/dlpa051.pdf?

#83
Posted 11/30/2015 08:36 PM   
The Predator that Acer showed looked like it was a rebadged DreamVision UST25 http://www.dreamvision.net/proj/ust254000HDi.html There was a guy that saw the Acer Predator first hand and comfirmed it was 3D capable. Kraine can you confirm that Acer's Predator Projector will support 3D Gaming? Also could you ask if it has a Display port or HDMI 2 connection capable of Frame Sequential at 1920x1080P@120Hz. If not, could you please suggest to them that they support a Checkerboard format so that 3D Gamers at least have decent interlaced format to use if progressive is limited to 24/30Hz@1080P. Kraine responds...3D gaming yes I can confirm this point but Acer's représentative at IFA but they don't bave much more infos to share http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2043034-ifa-berlin-2015-new-projectors-33.html
The Predator that Acer showed looked like it was a rebadged DreamVision UST25

http://www.dreamvision.net/proj/ust254000HDi.html


There was a guy that saw the Acer Predator first hand and comfirmed it was 3D capable.


Kraine can you confirm that Acer's Predator Projector will support 3D Gaming?

Also could you ask if it has a Display port or HDMI 2 connection capable of Frame Sequential at 1920x1080P@120Hz.

If not, could you please suggest to them that they support a Checkerboard format so that 3D Gamers at least have decent interlaced format to use if progressive is limited to 24/30Hz@1080P.

Kraine responds...3D gaming yes I can confirm this point but Acer's représentative at IFA but they don't bave much more infos to share


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2043034-ifa-berlin-2015-new-projectors-33.html

#84
Posted 11/30/2015 08:50 PM   
There is also a different Acer Predator projector than the one shown at IFA http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2186457-acer-z650-predator-ust-1080p-projector.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20n5LGp9xfk
There is also a different Acer Predator projector than the one shown at IFA


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2186457-acer-z650-predator-ust-1080p-projector.html


#85
Posted 11/30/2015 08:55 PM   
The one price I've found on the UST25 is a suggested retail of 9995 AUD. So they definitely have their work cut out unless Acer is making this be a boutique product. It's still cool that laser is beginning to take off. Seems like the ultimate solution for projectors. Hopefully it'll be mainstream in a couple more years.
The one price I've found on the UST25 is a suggested retail of 9995 AUD. So they definitely have their work cut out unless Acer is making this be a boutique product. It's still cool that laser is beginning to take off. Seems like the ultimate solution for projectors. Hopefully it'll be mainstream in a couple more years.

#86
Posted 11/30/2015 09:05 PM   
LED/Laser Hybrids use a blue laser filtered thru a green phosphor color wheel to produce green. Red and blue are provided by the LEDs. I believe that Casio released the first budget laser hybrid projector, prior to my PLED-W500. Acer's 2nd or 3rd gen LED projector, the K750 used a hybrid light source but wasn't 3D Ready. It might have been possible to hack it though. It was around $1000 and 1080P.
LED/Laser Hybrids use a blue laser filtered thru a green phosphor color wheel to produce green. Red and blue are provided by the LEDs.

I believe that Casio released the first budget laser hybrid projector, prior to my PLED-W500.

Acer's 2nd or 3rd gen LED projector, the K750 used a hybrid light source but wasn't 3D Ready. It might have been possible to hack it though. It was around $1000 and 1080P.

#87
Posted 11/30/2015 09:37 PM   
[quote="D-Man11"]@bo3b AFAIK, the majority of projectors and TVs use OpenSource code. LG has a distribution site for theirs http://opensource.lge.com/index As far as the 3D Vision option in the menu, that is simply to toggle DLP Link flash on or off.[/quote] This is very cool, and something I've never heard of before. The fact that the firmware is open source is amazing and helpful. I've downloaded the firmware to take a look and see what's available in the software. Looking this over briefly, it looks like open-source software that they use, but didn't include anything of theirs that I could see. I think they don't understand they are violating the licenses by doing this, but might release something if we point this out. You follow the projectors much more closely than I do. Do you know of a projector that is 1080p, with the proper chips inside that have enough bandwidth to support 1080p@120Hz? As long as the hardware supports 120Hz, we can possibly hack something in to support 120Hz frame sequential.
D-Man11 said:@bo3b

AFAIK, the majority of projectors and TVs use OpenSource code.
LG has a distribution site for theirs

http://opensource.lge.com/index


As far as the 3D Vision option in the menu, that is simply to toggle DLP Link flash on or off.

This is very cool, and something I've never heard of before. The fact that the firmware is open source is amazing and helpful. I've downloaded the firmware to take a look and see what's available in the software. Looking this over briefly, it looks like open-source software that they use, but didn't include anything of theirs that I could see. I think they don't understand they are violating the licenses by doing this, but might release something if we point this out.

You follow the projectors much more closely than I do. Do you know of a projector that is 1080p, with the proper chips inside that have enough bandwidth to support 1080p@120Hz? As long as the hardware supports 120Hz, we can possibly hack something in to support 120Hz frame sequential.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#88
Posted 12/01/2015 05:47 AM   
I haven't looked at the download, but I'd bet it's the source code to the Linux kernel, busybox and any other GPL/LGPL licensed code that they are using (the open source community tends to pressure these manufacturers a lot already to make sure they are upholding their responsibilities from the license agreement, so this is getting a lot more standard now), but not the source code to their software (like the UI, the code that responds to the buttons on the remote, etc). The license is important to ensure that if they have made any changes to GPL or LGPL licensed code that they must release those changes. This is important, because it means we can incorporate their changes into the upstream projects, which allows us to build a newer kernel/busybox to replace theirs (for security updates or new features), or to recompile the kernel with additional features enabled (think why dd-wrt supports way more features than your typical closed source router firmware). It does not obligate them to release the source code to any of their own software that is not covered by these licenses - and so long as they have not incorporated GPL/LGPL code into their software, and have not linked against any GPL libraries, their software won't be affected by these licenses. That's not to say I wouldn't love if they released their source code as well - it would be in their interest as it would allow the community to improve their device well beyond their ability to do so alone, and to fix the bugs that are inevitably present that aren't serious enough for them to bother fixing themselves. One problem area we still have with some manufacturers is that they don't always provide a means to reflash the device with a custom firmware built from their source code, or that they sometimes don't provide the tools/scripts needed to build their source code. In this case, they are violating the license, which clearly states that "The “Corresponding Source” for a work in object code form means all the source code needed to generate, install, and (for an executable work) run the object code and to modify the work, including scripts to control those activities." (GPL3, but there's similar wording in many open source licenses)
I haven't looked at the download, but I'd bet it's the source code to the Linux kernel, busybox and any other GPL/LGPL licensed code that they are using (the open source community tends to pressure these manufacturers a lot already to make sure they are upholding their responsibilities from the license agreement, so this is getting a lot more standard now), but not the source code to their software (like the UI, the code that responds to the buttons on the remote, etc).

The license is important to ensure that if they have made any changes to GPL or LGPL licensed code that they must release those changes. This is important, because it means we can incorporate their changes into the upstream projects, which allows us to build a newer kernel/busybox to replace theirs (for security updates or new features), or to recompile the kernel with additional features enabled (think why dd-wrt supports way more features than your typical closed source router firmware).

It does not obligate them to release the source code to any of their own software that is not covered by these licenses - and so long as they have not incorporated GPL/LGPL code into their software, and have not linked against any GPL libraries, their software won't be affected by these licenses.


That's not to say I wouldn't love if they released their source code as well - it would be in their interest as it would allow the community to improve their device well beyond their ability to do so alone, and to fix the bugs that are inevitably present that aren't serious enough for them to bother fixing themselves.


One problem area we still have with some manufacturers is that they don't always provide a means to reflash the device with a custom firmware built from their source code, or that they sometimes don't provide the tools/scripts needed to build their source code. In this case, they are violating the license, which clearly states that "The “Corresponding Source” for a work in object code form means all the source code needed to generate, install, and (for an executable work) run the object code and to modify the work, including scripts to control those activities." (GPL3, but there's similar wording in many open source licenses)

2x Geforce GTX 980 in SLI provided by NVIDIA, i7 6700K 4GHz CPU, Asus 27" VG278HE 144Hz 3D Monitor, BenQ W1070 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screens YardMaster 2, 32GB Corsair DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD, 4x750GB HDD in RAID5, Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Case, Corsair RM850i PSU, HTC Vive, Win 10 64bit

Alienware M17x R4 w/ built in 3D, Intel i7 3740QM, GTX 680m 2GB, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Win7 64bit, 1TB SSD, 1TB HDD, 750GB HDD

Pre-release 3D fixes, shadertool.py and other goodies: http://github.com/DarkStarSword/3d-fixes
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DarkStarSword or PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/DarkStarSword

#89
Posted 12/01/2015 12:38 PM   
I used to read up on projectors quite a bit. The only thing I do now is, occasionally go to Kraine's profile and look up his most recent posts to see if he has linked any new projectors. He has a projector review website and goes to the majority of the tradeshows. He used to have a mirror site in English, but it's just his Native French site now. So it's easier for me to check his AVS posts. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/members/24534-kraine.html My assumption is that the hardware has always supported 1080P @120. If it didn't, it would be painful to play a 30fps capped game in 3D. Some kind of pull down method must be being used, that repeats frames to compensate for the 60 frames from the GPU (30fpsx2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine It's possible that new input chips are already installed in some projectors and not being used to their potential. The only way to know would be to tear down one of the new models. But that voids the warranty and most people use budget projectors for gaming that are typically built with the cheapest parts they can use. ($1500 and down)
I used to read up on projectors quite a bit. The only thing I do now is, occasionally go to Kraine's profile and look up his most recent posts to see if he has linked any new projectors.
He has a projector review website and goes to the majority of the tradeshows. He used to have a mirror site in English, but it's just his Native French site now. So it's easier for me to check his AVS posts.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/members/24534-kraine.html


My assumption is that the hardware has always supported 1080P @120. If it didn't, it would be painful to play a 30fps capped game in 3D. Some kind of pull down method must be being used, that repeats frames to compensate for the 60 frames from the GPU (30fpsx2)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine


It's possible that new input chips are already installed in some projectors and not being used to their potential. The only way to know would be to tear down one of the new models. But that voids the warranty and most people use budget projectors for gaming that are typically built with the cheapest parts they can use. ($1500 and down)

#90
Posted 12/01/2015 12:50 PM   
  6 / 9    
Scroll To Top