Judgement Day - Most immersive way to enjoy 3D today! 3D Vision Surround vs. HMDs (Sony HMZ-T1 /
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I would like to know what you think is the most immersive way to enjoy stereoscopic 3D today.
I own the Sony HMZ-T1 and prefer this over my Optoma HD-33-Full-HD-3D projector when it comes to the overall quality and immersion of the 3D experience.
The one thing I never witnessed myself is 3D-Vision-Surround-Setup in action.

Anyone here who can compare the overall 3D experience of an HMD (Sony HMZ-T1 or SMD ST-1080)vs. 3D-Vision-Surround?
I would like to know what you think is the most immersive way to enjoy stereoscopic 3D today.

I own the Sony HMZ-T1 and prefer this over my Optoma HD-33-Full-HD-3D projector when it comes to the overall quality and immersion of the 3D experience.

The one thing I never witnessed myself is 3D-Vision-Surround-Setup in action.



Anyone here who can compare the overall 3D experience of an HMD (Sony HMZ-T1 or SMD ST-1080)vs. 3D-Vision-Surround?

#1
Posted 06/20/2012 11:34 AM   
Its all opinon based but Id say it goes like this to ME(keep in mind old hdtv/monitors are not accounted in this equation(High ghosting)
HDTV < MONITOR < 3D VISION 2 MONITOR = HMD < DLP PROJECTOR < 3D SURROUND MONITORS < 3D SURROUND PROJECTORS

I bought a hmz-t1 and returned it tbh. Ive also owned a monitor/3D TV. My 3d projector offered higher FOV, better picture and both had no/almonst non existent ghosting*shrug*. This is my opinion though. Don't have to agree. Also keep in mind 3d surround projectors are the most work and only offer 720p 3D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pOnI4jRQsY
Its all opinon based but Id say it goes like this to ME(keep in mind old hdtv/monitors are not accounted in this equation(High ghosting)

HDTV < MONITOR < 3D VISION 2 MONITOR = HMD < DLP PROJECTOR < 3D SURROUND MONITORS < 3D SURROUND PROJECTORS



I bought a hmz-t1 and returned it tbh. Ive also owned a monitor/3D TV. My 3d projector offered higher FOV, better picture and both had no/almonst non existent ghosting*shrug*. This is my opinion though. Don't have to agree. Also keep in mind 3d surround projectors are the most work and only offer 720p 3D.



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#2
Posted 06/20/2012 02:25 PM   
I won't bother with an HMD until I see 1920x1080P@60Hz in 3D, 1080@24Hz in 3D is unplayable and 720P@60Hz 3D is way too low of a resolution to game on, my 12 year old CRT with 1280x1024 has a clearer picture then 720p.

Hopefully they will make some soon...
I won't bother with an HMD until I see 1920x1080P@60Hz in 3D, 1080@24Hz in 3D is unplayable and 720P@60Hz 3D is way too low of a resolution to game on, my 12 year old CRT with 1280x1024 has a clearer picture then 720p.



Hopefully they will make some soon...

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#3
Posted 06/23/2012 02:45 PM   
I had the Sony and I have a 3D vision surround setup with 3 lightboost Benq monitors and 2 680s.

I really wanted to like the Sony, and while it was a neat idea, the execution didn't satisfy me in the end. The 720p res was painfully obvious to me. Even with full anti aliasing games just looked jagged due to the FOV of the Sony. Also, the Sony 3D effect was much more subtle then I was used to on either my Acer projector or 3D vision monitors. It was pretty much impossible to get any pop out from the Sony(this may be attributed to the fact that there really isn't a screen with the Sony)The Sony was VERY uncomfortable to wear for more then 30 min and yes I tried a bunch of mods but none really worked for me. I know some people have gone crazy and disasembled the thing for maximum comfort. So if your a hard core modder then maybe you can come up with a solution. Also the screen didn't really feel like a 100" screen. It felt more like a 40" monitor from a few feet away.

I find the immersion of a good 3D vision surround setup superior to both my Acer projector, and the Sony HMZ. Turn off all the lights and crank up the surround sound and your in for a truly next level experience. The crispness, and brightness of the Benq monitors are really amazing and by far the best 3D monitors i've owned. To get a proper 3D surround experience is not cheap however and I can see why people would be inclined to go with an HMZ or Acer projector and convince themselves that it's a better solution while saving themselves thousands of dollars. LOL. I tried doing that so I could save myself a few thousand dollars, but it didn't work.

Just as an example. If you wan't to play games like Metro 2033, Witcher 2, Battlefield 3 Etc in 3D vision surround with high settings you are going to need a beast of a system. Put in over 1000 for 3 benq monitors, another 1000 for 2 680s (don't even bother with 1 for surround)and to get the full bandwith of your PCIE 3 cards you will need an x79 or x77 platform, or x79 required for 3 or 4 way SLI in pCIE 3 mode. I've spent over 3 thousand on my computer this year alone!!

I think people would be very happy with the Acer projector over the Sony, and the Acer would be my second choice. I know you prefer the Sony, but I know alot of people on AVS including myself prefer the Acer.
I had the Sony and I have a 3D vision surround setup with 3 lightboost Benq monitors and 2 680s.



I really wanted to like the Sony, and while it was a neat idea, the execution didn't satisfy me in the end. The 720p res was painfully obvious to me. Even with full anti aliasing games just looked jagged due to the FOV of the Sony. Also, the Sony 3D effect was much more subtle then I was used to on either my Acer projector or 3D vision monitors. It was pretty much impossible to get any pop out from the Sony(this may be attributed to the fact that there really isn't a screen with the Sony)The Sony was VERY uncomfortable to wear for more then 30 min and yes I tried a bunch of mods but none really worked for me. I know some people have gone crazy and disasembled the thing for maximum comfort. So if your a hard core modder then maybe you can come up with a solution. Also the screen didn't really feel like a 100" screen. It felt more like a 40" monitor from a few feet away.



I find the immersion of a good 3D vision surround setup superior to both my Acer projector, and the Sony HMZ. Turn off all the lights and crank up the surround sound and your in for a truly next level experience. The crispness, and brightness of the Benq monitors are really amazing and by far the best 3D monitors i've owned. To get a proper 3D surround experience is not cheap however and I can see why people would be inclined to go with an HMZ or Acer projector and convince themselves that it's a better solution while saving themselves thousands of dollars. LOL. I tried doing that so I could save myself a few thousand dollars, but it didn't work.



Just as an example. If you wan't to play games like Metro 2033, Witcher 2, Battlefield 3 Etc in 3D vision surround with high settings you are going to need a beast of a system. Put in over 1000 for 3 benq monitors, another 1000 for 2 680s (don't even bother with 1 for surround)and to get the full bandwith of your PCIE 3 cards you will need an x79 or x77 platform, or x79 required for 3 or 4 way SLI in pCIE 3 mode. I've spent over 3 thousand on my computer this year alone!!



I think people would be very happy with the Acer projector over the Sony, and the Acer would be my second choice. I know you prefer the Sony, but I know alot of people on AVS including myself prefer the Acer.

#4
Posted 06/23/2012 03:22 PM   
My 46" fills up the Fov my Sony glasses provide, in fact the glasses will block some of the screen. Can't wait for 1080p120, and 4k. 4k on a 55" screen at the back on your desk..........ahhhhhhhhhh......

Im also one who thinks HMD manufacturers are crazy to produce sub 1080p glasses. That and blurry uncomfortable ones..... its just f'ing unbelievable really.
My 46" fills up the Fov my Sony glasses provide, in fact the glasses will block some of the screen. Can't wait for 1080p120, and 4k. 4k on a 55" screen at the back on your desk..........ahhhhhhhhhh......



Im also one who thinks HMD manufacturers are crazy to produce sub 1080p glasses. That and blurry uncomfortable ones..... its just f'ing unbelievable really.

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#5
Posted 06/23/2012 04:23 PM   
Until they make some 3D headwear with 1080P@60hz and built in TrackIR I'm wouldnt bother dishing out that much $$$$
Until they make some 3D headwear with 1080P@60hz and built in TrackIR I'm wouldnt bother dishing out that much $$$$

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#6
Posted 06/24/2012 09:12 PM   
@Conan48

you just gave the answer I was hoping for. I needed someone who can tell the difference based on his own experience with all the specific devices. Just one more question. You said you tried to convince yourself of the superiority of the projector or the HMZ-T1 yourself so you could save you a lot of money. You said in the end that didn't work oput for you (and tbh it won't for me either). Did you finally buy the Surround setup because you just speculated it to be the superior 3D setup or did you actually witness a 3D-Vision-Surround-Setup in action and after that you couldn't resist any longer?
@Conan48



you just gave the answer I was hoping for. I needed someone who can tell the difference based on his own experience with all the specific devices. Just one more question. You said you tried to convince yourself of the superiority of the projector or the HMZ-T1 yourself so you could save you a lot of money. You said in the end that didn't work oput for you (and tbh it won't for me either). Did you finally buy the Surround setup because you just speculated it to be the superior 3D setup or did you actually witness a 3D-Vision-Surround-Setup in action and after that you couldn't resist any longer?

#7
Posted 06/25/2012 09:10 AM   
For me 3dsurround is on top of my list ....

But after trying out 3d-surrround with it's pro's and con's I switched to a projector instead...
The only downside of a projector is it's lower resolution(I have bad eye sight,and no glasses)and some fine detailes I cannot see without some extra glasses,that I refuse to ware under my 3dvision ones...
The pro's of 3dsurround is it's Fov and bigger resolution,but it draines alot of power,and not all games work with this setup compaired to a projector...
Also with a projector you can play 3dmovies,a 3dvision surround is useless with that kind of small screen.

Now I can switch between a single quality 24" 3d led lcd, to a ghost free big projector screen..and that fine for me...
In the future there might be a change that I switch to 3dvision surround with projector...but I need a bigger room for that...

The only thing I have no experiance with is the helmed..but I'm never going to ware those because I want to have eye contact with my surroundings/friends,when I play....
For me 3dsurround is on top of my list ....



But after trying out 3d-surrround with it's pro's and con's I switched to a projector instead...

The only downside of a projector is it's lower resolution(I have bad eye sight,and no glasses)and some fine detailes I cannot see without some extra glasses,that I refuse to ware under my 3dvision ones...

The pro's of 3dsurround is it's Fov and bigger resolution,but it draines alot of power,and not all games work with this setup compaired to a projector...

Also with a projector you can play 3dmovies,a 3dvision surround is useless with that kind of small screen.



Now I can switch between a single quality 24" 3d led lcd, to a ghost free big projector screen..and that fine for me...

In the future there might be a change that I switch to 3dvision surround with projector...but I need a bigger room for that...



The only thing I have no experiance with is the helmed..but I'm never going to ware those because I want to have eye contact with my surroundings/friends,when I play....

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#8
Posted 06/25/2012 03:43 PM   
[quote name='lohan' date='25 June 2012 - 10:10 AM' timestamp='1340615440' post='1426248']
@Conan48

you just gave the answer I was hoping for. I needed someone who can tell the difference based on his own experience with all the specific devices. Just one more question. You said you tried to convince yourself of the superiority of the projector or the HMZ-T1 yourself so you could save you a lot of money. You said in the end that didn't work oput for you (and tbh it won't for me either). Did you finally buy the Surround setup because you just speculated it to be the superior 3D setup or did you actually witness a 3D-Vision-Surround-Setup in action and after that you couldn't resist any longer?
[/quote]

I started with a Samsung 3D monitor then moved to an Acer 3D monitor, then I got the Acer projector, then I got 2 more Acer monitors for surround, then I got the Sony HMD, and I bought 3 Benq 24" Lightboost monitors, and finally I also have a 65" Panny VT 50 plasma and I hope that's it for now /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' /> /blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> Yes I'm pretty insane, and not i'm not rich. I would rather buy a cheap ass car and spend 15 grand on computers /clap.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':clap:' />

The projector was really cool because I'm playing on a 110" screen and it's also really imersive, but the quality in overall image paled in comparison to a single Acer monitor. Very low res, jagged, and of course low brightness due to it being a projector. I kept moving my comp back and forth between the Acer monitor and Acer projector and found I enjoyed the monitor more just because of the improved visual quality. Things like texture details, smoothness, and brightness made 3D more enjoyable to me on a SINGLE Acer monitor. I then started reading about surround but decided not to do it a first as my system wouldn't handle it. Watched some surround youtube videos and kept thinking about it. Then finally decided to get 2 extra acer monitors when I upgraded to 2 GTX 480s. 2 thousand dollars later I had a nice 3D Vision surround setup. IT WAS AMAZING. It takes gaming to another level that once you try it, it's really hard to go back to 1 screen FOVs. I though it wouldn't be a big deal but because your vision is not completely enveloped it makes you feel an extra level of immersion.

However, its not all good with 3D vision surround. First thing was many games don't support 3D vision surround resolutions, and it's always frustrating when your favourite game won't run. I've learnt to be patient and now thanks to people like Helifax from Wide screen gaming forum we have fixes for most of the games out there. Just a few games that have been fixed are Mass Effect 3, Skyrim, Modern Warfare 3, etc recently.

To run games in with their settings maxed you need a really high end setup and that's why I just got 2 680s and now I can even play Battlefield 3 with max settings at around 35 frames per second. I may get a third card in the near future.

The Sony HMD could have been great but WAY too many flaws. I tried for almost a month to get that thing working right for me and even when I could get some comfort the image quality was too poor for me.

Finally I have 3 Benq Lightboost monitors which are GREAT. They are about equally bright as my old acers were in 2D mode, and the ghosting on the Benq is very low. However the Acer projector and the Sony HMD are ghost free, but the Benq is good enough that the very minimal ghosting that is there is never distracting.

Forgot to mention that I also had a JVC X7 (average 3D), JVC X70 (crap 3D), and I also currently own the Epson 5010 projector which is much better then the Acer (4 times to cost though)in everything except the ghosting were the Acer is still clearly better as it doesn't have any. The VT50 is great in 3D but also has more ghosting then any of the 3d monitors and more then the Acer again, but it's VERY crisp and has the BEST colours in 3D but of course the main issues with these displays is 720p /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />

I've tried almost every 3D setup there is and the Benq 3D vision surround setup gets my nod for ultimate 3D gaming setup /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

So what am I looking forward to in the future? that would be 3 monitors or TVs that support FULL 3D passive which won't happen till we get 4K tv (then you get full 1080 to each eye in passive)

.....and after that, full auto steroscopic TV/monitors (no glasses)that support multiple sweet spots. This is in the works now and we should have some stuff out next year.
[quote name='lohan' date='25 June 2012 - 10:10 AM' timestamp='1340615440' post='1426248']

@Conan48



you just gave the answer I was hoping for. I needed someone who can tell the difference based on his own experience with all the specific devices. Just one more question. You said you tried to convince yourself of the superiority of the projector or the HMZ-T1 yourself so you could save you a lot of money. You said in the end that didn't work oput for you (and tbh it won't for me either). Did you finally buy the Surround setup because you just speculated it to be the superior 3D setup or did you actually witness a 3D-Vision-Surround-Setup in action and after that you couldn't resist any longer?





I started with a Samsung 3D monitor then moved to an Acer 3D monitor, then I got the Acer projector, then I got 2 more Acer monitors for surround, then I got the Sony HMD, and I bought 3 Benq 24" Lightboost monitors, and finally I also have a 65" Panny VT 50 plasma and I hope that's it for now /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' /> /blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> Yes I'm pretty insane, and not i'm not rich. I would rather buy a cheap ass car and spend 15 grand on computers /clap.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':clap:' />



The projector was really cool because I'm playing on a 110" screen and it's also really imersive, but the quality in overall image paled in comparison to a single Acer monitor. Very low res, jagged, and of course low brightness due to it being a projector. I kept moving my comp back and forth between the Acer monitor and Acer projector and found I enjoyed the monitor more just because of the improved visual quality. Things like texture details, smoothness, and brightness made 3D more enjoyable to me on a SINGLE Acer monitor. I then started reading about surround but decided not to do it a first as my system wouldn't handle it. Watched some surround youtube videos and kept thinking about it. Then finally decided to get 2 extra acer monitors when I upgraded to 2 GTX 480s. 2 thousand dollars later I had a nice 3D Vision surround setup. IT WAS AMAZING. It takes gaming to another level that once you try it, it's really hard to go back to 1 screen FOVs. I though it wouldn't be a big deal but because your vision is not completely enveloped it makes you feel an extra level of immersion.



However, its not all good with 3D vision surround. First thing was many games don't support 3D vision surround resolutions, and it's always frustrating when your favourite game won't run. I've learnt to be patient and now thanks to people like Helifax from Wide screen gaming forum we have fixes for most of the games out there. Just a few games that have been fixed are Mass Effect 3, Skyrim, Modern Warfare 3, etc recently.



To run games in with their settings maxed you need a really high end setup and that's why I just got 2 680s and now I can even play Battlefield 3 with max settings at around 35 frames per second. I may get a third card in the near future.



The Sony HMD could have been great but WAY too many flaws. I tried for almost a month to get that thing working right for me and even when I could get some comfort the image quality was too poor for me.



Finally I have 3 Benq Lightboost monitors which are GREAT. They are about equally bright as my old acers were in 2D mode, and the ghosting on the Benq is very low. However the Acer projector and the Sony HMD are ghost free, but the Benq is good enough that the very minimal ghosting that is there is never distracting.



Forgot to mention that I also had a JVC X7 (average 3D), JVC X70 (crap 3D), and I also currently own the Epson 5010 projector which is much better then the Acer (4 times to cost though)in everything except the ghosting were the Acer is still clearly better as it doesn't have any. The VT50 is great in 3D but also has more ghosting then any of the 3d monitors and more then the Acer again, but it's VERY crisp and has the BEST colours in 3D but of course the main issues with these displays is 720p /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />



I've tried almost every 3D setup there is and the Benq 3D vision surround setup gets my nod for ultimate 3D gaming setup /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />



So what am I looking forward to in the future? that would be 3 monitors or TVs that support FULL 3D passive which won't happen till we get 4K tv (then you get full 1080 to each eye in passive)



.....and after that, full auto steroscopic TV/monitors (no glasses)that support multiple sweet spots. This is in the works now and we should have some stuff out next year.

#9
Posted 06/25/2012 08:05 PM   
Thanks for the info Conan. This thread is great, as I have seriously been thinking about upgrading my monitor recently.
My Asus isn't a lightboost model, but I love the glossy screen and the ghosting is pretty minimal really, especially once warmed up.
I was going to get an Asus VG278H, but I've started to think about buying 3 x Benq XL2420T instead and you've really got me thinking...
I also have the luxury of a 3d projector as well, but I tend to have phases where I'll use nothing but the projector for a month or two, then switch back to using the monitor.
Would be nice to try normal 2d surround as well.

Got a question though. How far away do you sit from the monitors? I notice that if I turn my head it can affect ghosting on my current monitor. Is that a problem with 3d surround?
Thanks for the info Conan. This thread is great, as I have seriously been thinking about upgrading my monitor recently.

My Asus isn't a lightboost model, but I love the glossy screen and the ghosting is pretty minimal really, especially once warmed up.

I was going to get an Asus VG278H, but I've started to think about buying 3 x Benq XL2420T instead and you've really got me thinking...

I also have the luxury of a 3d projector as well, but I tend to have phases where I'll use nothing but the projector for a month or two, then switch back to using the monitor.

Would be nice to try normal 2d surround as well.



Got a question though. How far away do you sit from the monitors? I notice that if I turn my head it can affect ghosting on my current monitor. Is that a problem with 3d surround?

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#10
Posted 06/25/2012 09:42 PM   
I sit pretty close. My entire Field of view is filled by the monitors. Ghosting on the side monitors can increase if you tilt them to much. I tilt them a little bit towards me, and haven't been bothered by ghosting. The tilting is great especially if your playing a game and you walk down a tunnel or cave and you really feel like your going through it. Playing any type of survival horror game like Dead Space is especially awesome in surround.
I sit pretty close. My entire Field of view is filled by the monitors. Ghosting on the side monitors can increase if you tilt them to much. I tilt them a little bit towards me, and haven't been bothered by ghosting. The tilting is great especially if your playing a game and you walk down a tunnel or cave and you really feel like your going through it. Playing any type of survival horror game like Dead Space is especially awesome in surround.

#11
Posted 06/26/2012 02:16 AM   
Tilting rocks. Ive seen a 2D surround set and the person tilts it more depending on games. Like skyrim,any elder scrolls games, hunted, basically any games with caves. It looks amazing. I really want to see it in 3d.
Tilting rocks. Ive seen a 2D surround set and the person tilts it more depending on games. Like skyrim,any elder scrolls games, hunted, basically any games with caves. It looks amazing. I really want to see it in 3d.

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#12
Posted 06/26/2012 03:41 AM   
[quote name='conan48' date='25 June 2012 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1340654703' post='1426462']
So what am I looking forward to in the future? that would be 3 monitors or TVs that support FULL 3D passive which won't happen till we get 4K tv (then you get full 1080 to each eye in passive)

[/quote]



Lol,that will not take so long.. they will launch this year or next year(LG and Samsung)...2x hd resolution Oleds with a speed of 0,02 ms (100 times faster then current lcd's) !



Don't know what kind if 3D setup will come with those but the future looks promising...
[quote name='conan48' date='25 June 2012 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1340654703' post='1426462']

So what am I looking forward to in the future? that would be 3 monitors or TVs that support FULL 3D passive which won't happen till we get 4K tv (then you get full 1080 to each eye in passive)











Lol,that will not take so long.. they will launch this year or next year(LG and Samsung)...2x hd resolution Oleds with a speed of 0,02 ms (100 times faster then current lcd's) !







Don't know what kind if 3D setup will come with those but the future looks promising...

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#13
Posted 06/26/2012 04:23 PM   
yeah LG has a 4k 84" coming this year that does full 1080p passive, and it only costs 10k /omg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omg:' /> Maybe I'll get 3 of those /rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />
yeah LG has a 4k 84" coming this year that does full 1080p passive, and it only costs 10k /omg.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omg:' /> Maybe I'll get 3 of those /rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />

#14
Posted 06/26/2012 09:11 PM   
[quote]I would like to know what you think is the most immersive way to enjoy stereoscopic 3D today.[/quote]
Actually, I hear it's something called "Front Door." People keep telling me it's a great way to experience 3D. Most of them are non-gamers, though, so I wouldn't put much trust in what they say.
/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
I would like to know what you think is the most immersive way to enjoy stereoscopic 3D today.


Actually, I hear it's something called "Front Door." People keep telling me it's a great way to experience 3D. Most of them are non-gamers, though, so I wouldn't put much trust in what they say.

/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#15
Posted 06/27/2012 02:53 AM   
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