I've had my 3D vision kit for about a month now, and I have had some ghosting issues (as many others have), but I think I would describe mine a bit differently...
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?
I've had my 3D vision kit for about a month now, and I have had some ghosting issues (as many others have), but I think I would describe mine a bit differently...
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?
[quote name='Joeman CXL' post='1008739' date='Feb 26 2010, 03:47 PM']I've had my 3D vision kit for about a month now, and I have had some ghosting issues (as many others have), but I think I would describe mine a bit differently...
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?[/quote]
Yes, this is called pixel overdrive and while it may get the pixel closer to the "correct" color sooner, it has the side effect of "missing the target" and ending up showing a weird off color image sometimes. That's all ... it's expected behavior unfortunately since we're riding at the limits of the technology.
[quote name='Joeman CXL' post='1008739' date='Feb 26 2010, 03:47 PM']I've had my 3D vision kit for about a month now, and I have had some ghosting issues (as many others have), but I think I would describe mine a bit differently...
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?
Yes, this is called pixel overdrive and while it may get the pixel closer to the "correct" color sooner, it has the side effect of "missing the target" and ending up showing a weird off color image sometimes. That's all ... it's expected behavior unfortunately since we're riding at the limits of the technology.
[quote name='rkuo' post='1008901' date='Feb 27 2010, 10:52 AM']Yes, this is called pixel overdrive and while it may get the pixel closer to the "correct" color sooner, it has the side effect of "missing the target" and ending up showing a weird off color image sometimes. That's all ... it's expected behavior unfortunately since we're riding at the limits of the technology.[/quote]
Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?
[quote name='rkuo' post='1008901' date='Feb 27 2010, 10:52 AM']Yes, this is called pixel overdrive and while it may get the pixel closer to the "correct" color sooner, it has the side effect of "missing the target" and ending up showing a weird off color image sometimes. That's all ... it's expected behavior unfortunately since we're riding at the limits of the technology.
Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?
[quote name='jmbuehler' post='1008952' date='Feb 27 2010, 06:08 AM']Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?[/quote]
With the term "pixel overdrive" I was able to do some more research. I don't see any menu options for altering the pixel overdrive configuration, and when it's in 3D mode it seems to ignore any custom settings entirely. There is a "MagicBrite" setting which may be somewhat related but there's no way to configure it in 3D mode.
I will probably download the latest monitor drivers - maybe there's a color correction mode that will allow me to adjust the amount of pixel overdrive for very bright areas. Short of that, I could also envision this being fixed in software via a display driver that allowed a configurable pixel overdrive compensation factor, but I don't see that option either right now. I hope one of the two is possible as the overdrive shadowing is far worse than the other form of ghosting.
[quote name='jmbuehler' post='1008952' date='Feb 27 2010, 06:08 AM']Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?
With the term "pixel overdrive" I was able to do some more research. I don't see any menu options for altering the pixel overdrive configuration, and when it's in 3D mode it seems to ignore any custom settings entirely. There is a "MagicBrite" setting which may be somewhat related but there's no way to configure it in 3D mode.
I will probably download the latest monitor drivers - maybe there's a color correction mode that will allow me to adjust the amount of pixel overdrive for very bright areas. Short of that, I could also envision this being fixed in software via a display driver that allowed a configurable pixel overdrive compensation factor, but I don't see that option either right now. I hope one of the two is possible as the overdrive shadowing is far worse than the other form of ghosting.
[quote name='jmbuehler' post='1008952' date='Feb 27 2010, 03:08 PM']Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?[/quote]
In some cases the overdrive feature can be disabled in the service menu. Note that this will decrease the contrast problem around edges described in the first post, but it will increase the reaction time, and so increase overall ghosting.
[quote name='jmbuehler' post='1008952' date='Feb 27 2010, 03:08 PM']Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?
In some cases the overdrive feature can be disabled in the service menu. Note that this will decrease the contrast problem around edges described in the first post, but it will increase the reaction time, and so increase overall ghosting.
The problem is that the glasses don’t block the second image for one eye at all. If you look with one eye you will see the two images from one glass len, but one of the picture that is supposed to be blocked will look like 40% visible.
The problem is that the glasses don’t block the second image for one eye at all. If you look with one eye you will see the two images from one glass len, but one of the picture that is supposed to be blocked will look like 40% visible.
[quote name='casimiro1987' post='1014861' date='Mar 8 2010, 07:25 AM']The problem is that the glasses don’t block the second image for one eye at all. If you look with one eye you will see the two images from one glass len, but one of the picture that is supposed to be blocked will look like 40% visible.[/quote]
I thought it was it was all because of two reasons;
1) The monitor response time cannot update the image fast enough (what you have just mentioned im taking it)
2) The shutters don't completely black themselves. I would love to know the truth about how much light the shutters can actually block. But if you hold the button down on them in game they will stay black, or as close to black as i presume they can go......
*Point of interest !!!! Apparently mitsubishi DLP tvs have NO ghosting. Repeat, NONE. Never seen to confirm, but it does leave me hope that one day, I won't have to pretend its not there ^_^
[quote name='casimiro1987' post='1014861' date='Mar 8 2010, 07:25 AM']The problem is that the glasses don’t block the second image for one eye at all. If you look with one eye you will see the two images from one glass len, but one of the picture that is supposed to be blocked will look like 40% visible.
I thought it was it was all because of two reasons;
1) The monitor response time cannot update the image fast enough (what you have just mentioned im taking it)
2) The shutters don't completely black themselves. I would love to know the truth about how much light the shutters can actually block. But if you hold the button down on them in game they will stay black, or as close to black as i presume they can go......
*Point of interest !!!! Apparently mitsubishi DLP tvs have NO ghosting. Repeat, NONE. Never seen to confirm, but it does leave me hope that one day, I won't have to pretend its not there ^_^
[quote name='CamRaiD' post='1015805' date='Mar 9 2010, 03:38 AM']*Point of interest !!!! Apparently mitsubishi DLP tvs have NO ghosting. Repeat, NONE. Never seen to confirm, but it does leave me hope that one day, I won't have to pretend its not there ^_^[/quote]
I have no ghosting on my Zalman 22" using the 3D Vision Drivers! Although I have to sit at least half a meter from the screen and in the correct position to get no ghosting. Polarised FTW! (Oh and the monitor costs less than the nVidia 3D Vision Glasses! LOL)
[quote name='CamRaiD' post='1015805' date='Mar 9 2010, 03:38 AM']*Point of interest !!!! Apparently mitsubishi DLP tvs have NO ghosting. Repeat, NONE. Never seen to confirm, but it does leave me hope that one day, I won't have to pretend its not there ^_^
I have no ghosting on my Zalman 22" using the 3D Vision Drivers! Although I have to sit at least half a meter from the screen and in the correct position to get no ghosting. Polarised FTW! (Oh and the monitor costs less than the nVidia 3D Vision Glasses! LOL)
[quote name='Blackhole of Soul's' post='1016141' date='Mar 10 2010, 05:35 AM']I have no ghosting on my Zalman 22" using the 3D Vision Drivers! Although I have to sit at least half a meter from the screen and in the correct position to get no ghosting. Polarised FTW! (Oh and the monitor costs less than the nVidia 3D Vision Glasses! LOL)[/quote]
Intriguing. How deep can the depth go with the polarized setup?? I always assumed the more depth you asked, the further the left and right images will be drawn next to each other, and therefore; the more noticeable the 'crossplay'.
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
[quote name='Blackhole of Soul's' post='1016141' date='Mar 10 2010, 05:35 AM']I have no ghosting on my Zalman 22" using the 3D Vision Drivers! Although I have to sit at least half a meter from the screen and in the correct position to get no ghosting. Polarised FTW! (Oh and the monitor costs less than the nVidia 3D Vision Glasses! LOL)
Intriguing. How deep can the depth go with the polarized setup?? I always assumed the more depth you asked, the further the left and right images will be drawn next to each other, and therefore; the more noticeable the 'crossplay'.
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
[quote name='CamRaiD' post='1016389' date='Mar 9 2010, 04:39 PM']I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....[/quote]
They ratchetted down the depth in "Avatar" so the millions of people who've never seen anything in stereoscopic 3d before wouldn't get headaches. It just so happens that our eyes happen to be trained enough to notice.
[quote name='CamRaiD' post='1016389' date='Mar 9 2010, 04:39 PM']I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
They ratchetted down the depth in "Avatar" so the millions of people who've never seen anything in stereoscopic 3d before wouldn't get headaches. It just so happens that our eyes happen to be trained enough to notice.
[quote name='CamRaiD' post='1016389' date='Mar 9 2010, 09:39 PM']Intriguing. How deep can the depth go with the polarized setup?? I always assumed the more depth you asked, the further the left and right images will be drawn next to each other, and therefore; the more noticeable the 'crossplay'.
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
Are the colors distorted at all ?[/quote]
I'm playing with Depth set to 70%, no ghosting and the monitors colour reproduction is great. Extremely vibrant.
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
[list]
[*]Cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses
[*]Uses the nVidia 3D Vision Driver and is also compatible with iz3D Driver, TriDef DDD and works with YouTube 3D
[*]No Ghosting
[*]Very Good Screen, Glossy Coating, Vibrant Colours
[/list]
Con's:
[list]
[*]Interlaced so resolution is reduced, yet games look the same resolution as my previous 22" 2D Screen so I can not understand this.
[*]You have to sit in a specific position for Zero Ghosting and at least half a meter away. This rules out multiple people viewing the screen.
[/list]
[quote name='CamRaiD' post='1016389' date='Mar 9 2010, 09:39 PM']Intriguing. How deep can the depth go with the polarized setup?? I always assumed the more depth you asked, the further the left and right images will be drawn next to each other, and therefore; the more noticeable the 'crossplay'.
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
Are the colors distorted at all ?
I'm playing with Depth set to 70%, no ghosting and the monitors colour reproduction is great. Extremely vibrant.
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
Cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses
Uses the nVidia 3D Vision Driver and is also compatible with iz3D Driver, TriDef DDD and works with YouTube 3D
No Ghosting
Very Good Screen, Glossy Coating, Vibrant Colours
Con's:
Interlaced so resolution is reduced, yet games look the same resolution as my previous 22" 2D Screen so I can not understand this.
You have to sit in a specific position for Zero Ghosting and at least half a meter away. This rules out multiple people viewing the screen.
[quote name='Blackhole of Soul's' post='1016429' date='Mar 10 2010, 11:22 AM']I'm playing with Depth set to 70%, no ghosting and the monitors colour reproduction is great. Extremely vibrant.
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
[list]
[*]Cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses
[*]Uses the nVidia 3D Vision Driver and is also compatible with iz3D Driver, TriDef DDD and works with YouTube 3D
[*]No Ghosting
[*]Very Good Screen, Glossy Coating, Vibrant Colours
[/list]
Con's:
[list]
[*]Interlaced so resolution is reduced, yet games look the same resolution as my previous 22" 2D Screen so I can not understand this.
[*]You have to sit in a specific position for Zero Ghosting and at least half a meter away. This rules out multiple people viewing the screen.
[/list][/quote]
Its quite hard to get my head around the fact that both eyes are looking at 1 screen... The polarization is that strong that one eye simply cannot see the opposite poles eye... (make sense) :P
[quote name='Blackhole of Soul's' post='1016429' date='Mar 10 2010, 11:22 AM']I'm playing with Depth set to 70%, no ghosting and the monitors colour reproduction is great. Extremely vibrant.
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
Cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses
Uses the nVidia 3D Vision Driver and is also compatible with iz3D Driver, TriDef DDD and works with YouTube 3D
No Ghosting
Very Good Screen, Glossy Coating, Vibrant Colours
Con's:
Interlaced so resolution is reduced, yet games look the same resolution as my previous 22" 2D Screen so I can not understand this.
You have to sit in a specific position for Zero Ghosting and at least half a meter away. This rules out multiple people viewing the screen.
Its quite hard to get my head around the fact that both eyes are looking at 1 screen... The polarization is that strong that one eye simply cannot see the opposite poles eye... (make sense) :P
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?[/quote]
Yes, this is called pixel overdrive and while it may get the pixel closer to the "correct" color sooner, it has the side effect of "missing the target" and ending up showing a weird off color image sometimes. That's all ... it's expected behavior unfortunately since we're riding at the limits of the technology.
First of all, I have noticed in some scenes a bit of regular ghosting as described by other users of the site, I have followed the FAQ guidance on it and it is improved by letting the monitor warm up. It's not a big deal to me, I can generally ignore it. However, I noticed that the ghosting was ridiculous on any brightly-lit game, such as TrackMania (a car racing game) and Oblivion. I've been playing a lot of X3 and Hellgate: London in the meantime.
I didn't notice the difference between ghosting types until I re-opened Oblivion, which has a lot of brightly colored areas and allows a person to sit and look at the problem in relative peace. This second ghosting issue seemingly has nothing to do with the LCD glasses not responding fast enough or the monitor not responding fast enough.
I noticed this for the first time looking at a mountain in the distance:
/\
/ \
/ \
(Sorry for the bad ASCII art...)
If you can picture it, this mountain is, in Oblivion, basically pure white, with a slate-grey sky behind it.
You would think that if the shutter glasses were non-responsive you'd see an intermediate-colored shadow beside the mountain like so:
/\/\
/ \ \
/ \ \
where the shadow mountain is sort of a hybrid between the two colors (so, if the sky is grey, and the mountain is white, the shadow would be a sort of lighter grey).
But no, that's not what I get. I see the shadow colors actually *darker* than either the mountain or the sky, and a bit yellowish.
My assumption is that to achieve a higher refresh rate, my monitor internally attempts to turn the pixels "extra-black" to make them respond faster, which is unfortunately overcompensating for performance and actually making things darker. Looking at other games, I see this elsewhere now: any time a very bright or white color is shown, there are dark or blackish shadows on either side that are darker than the actual content of either side.
It seems to me that, even if the monitor manufacturer (Samsung in my case) didn't address this via a BIOS update, that you could compensate using software by drawing a shadow image beside brightly colored artifacts to alter the color.
Does this description make sense? Is anyone else seeing this?
Yes, this is called pixel overdrive and while it may get the pixel closer to the "correct" color sooner, it has the side effect of "missing the target" and ending up showing a weird off color image sometimes. That's all ... it's expected behavior unfortunately since we're riding at the limits of the technology.
Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?
Is it not possible to turn off this feature? Also, what setting Igaming, movies etc.) in the Samsung screen menu do you find gives you the least ghosting?
With the term "pixel overdrive" I was able to do some more research. I don't see any menu options for altering the pixel overdrive configuration, and when it's in 3D mode it seems to ignore any custom settings entirely. There is a "MagicBrite" setting which may be somewhat related but there's no way to configure it in 3D mode.
I will probably download the latest monitor drivers - maybe there's a color correction mode that will allow me to adjust the amount of pixel overdrive for very bright areas. Short of that, I could also envision this being fixed in software via a display driver that allowed a configurable pixel overdrive compensation factor, but I don't see that option either right now. I hope one of the two is possible as the overdrive shadowing is far worse than the other form of ghosting.
With the term "pixel overdrive" I was able to do some more research. I don't see any menu options for altering the pixel overdrive configuration, and when it's in 3D mode it seems to ignore any custom settings entirely. There is a "MagicBrite" setting which may be somewhat related but there's no way to configure it in 3D mode.
I will probably download the latest monitor drivers - maybe there's a color correction mode that will allow me to adjust the amount of pixel overdrive for very bright areas. Short of that, I could also envision this being fixed in software via a display driver that allowed a configurable pixel overdrive compensation factor, but I don't see that option either right now. I hope one of the two is possible as the overdrive shadowing is far worse than the other form of ghosting.
In some cases the overdrive feature can be disabled in the service menu. Note that this will decrease the contrast problem around edges described in the first post, but it will increase the reaction time, and so increase overall ghosting.
In some cases the overdrive feature can be disabled in the service menu. Note that this will decrease the contrast problem around edges described in the first post, but it will increase the reaction time, and so increase overall ghosting.
I thought it was it was all because of two reasons;
1) The monitor response time cannot update the image fast enough (what you have just mentioned im taking it)
2) The shutters don't completely black themselves. I would love to know the truth about how much light the shutters can actually block. But if you hold the button down on them in game they will stay black, or as close to black as i presume they can go......
*Point of interest !!!! Apparently mitsubishi DLP tvs have NO ghosting. Repeat, NONE. Never seen to confirm, but it does leave me hope that one day, I won't have to pretend its not there ^_^
I thought it was it was all because of two reasons;
1) The monitor response time cannot update the image fast enough (what you have just mentioned im taking it)
2) The shutters don't completely black themselves. I would love to know the truth about how much light the shutters can actually block. But if you hold the button down on them in game they will stay black, or as close to black as i presume they can go......
*Point of interest !!!! Apparently mitsubishi DLP tvs have NO ghosting. Repeat, NONE. Never seen to confirm, but it does leave me hope that one day, I won't have to pretend its not there ^_^
I have no ghosting on my Zalman 22" using the 3D Vision Drivers! Although I have to sit at least half a meter from the screen and in the correct position to get no ghosting. Polarised FTW! (Oh and the monitor costs less than the nVidia 3D Vision Glasses! LOL)
I have no ghosting on my Zalman 22" using the 3D Vision Drivers! Although I have to sit at least half a meter from the screen and in the correct position to get no ghosting. Polarised FTW! (Oh and the monitor costs less than the nVidia 3D Vision Glasses! LOL)
Intriguing. How deep can the depth go with the polarized setup?? I always assumed the more depth you asked, the further the left and right images will be drawn next to each other, and therefore; the more noticeable the 'crossplay'.
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
Are the colors distorted at all ?
Intriguing. How deep can the depth go with the polarized setup?? I always assumed the more depth you asked, the further the left and right images will be drawn next to each other, and therefore; the more noticeable the 'crossplay'.
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
Are the colors distorted at all ?
They ratchetted down the depth in "Avatar" so the millions of people who've never seen anything in stereoscopic 3d before wouldn't get headaches. It just so happens that our eyes happen to be trained enough to notice.
They ratchetted down the depth in "Avatar" so the millions of people who've never seen anything in stereoscopic 3d before wouldn't get headaches. It just so happens that our eyes happen to be trained enough to notice.
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I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
Are the colors distorted at all ?[/quote]
I'm playing with Depth set to 70%, no ghosting and the monitors colour reproduction is great. Extremely vibrant.
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
[list]
[*]Cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses
[*]Uses the nVidia 3D Vision Driver and is also compatible with iz3D Driver, TriDef DDD and works with YouTube 3D
[*]No Ghosting
[*]Very Good Screen, Glossy Coating, Vibrant Colours
[/list]
Con's:
[list]
[*]Interlaced so resolution is reduced, yet games look the same resolution as my previous 22" 2D Screen so I can not understand this.
[*]You have to sit in a specific position for Zero Ghosting and at least half a meter away. This rules out multiple people viewing the screen.
[/list]
I saw avatar with the polarized glasses. I figured the depth was not high because of the limits of the technology more so than JC's whim....
Are the colors distorted at all ?
I'm playing with Depth set to 70%, no ghosting and the monitors colour reproduction is great. Extremely vibrant.
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
Con's:
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
[list]
[*]Cheaper than the nVidia Shutter Glasses
[*]Uses the nVidia 3D Vision Driver and is also compatible with iz3D Driver, TriDef DDD and works with YouTube 3D
[*]No Ghosting
[*]Very Good Screen, Glossy Coating, Vibrant Colours
[/list]
Con's:
[list]
[*]Interlaced so resolution is reduced, yet games look the same resolution as my previous 22" 2D Screen so I can not understand this.
[*]You have to sit in a specific position for Zero Ghosting and at least half a meter away. This rules out multiple people viewing the screen.
[/list][/quote]
Its quite hard to get my head around the fact that both eyes are looking at 1 screen... The polarization is that strong that one eye simply cannot see the opposite poles eye... (make sense) :P
Polarised and Shutterglasses both have different Pro's and Con's, i've summarised the Zalman's below.
Pro's
Con's:
Its quite hard to get my head around the fact that both eyes are looking at 1 screen... The polarization is that strong that one eye simply cannot see the opposite poles eye... (make sense) :P