Rise of the Tomb Raider 2016 - 3D Vision Fix
  40 / 50    
Well based on my testing: - You need to use official SLI bits. Alternative ones will produce massive flickers!!!! (You can still use the older version of the game with the alternative SLI bits and works nice. Only some snow trails will flicker). SLI seems to be working very good almost all times;) In some KNOWN locations it will work less but still working. - Performance-wise I can't say if is better than the older version but I am running 2x980Ti in 3D Surround at 5760x1080 so... My FPS is from 30 to 50 in 3D Surround. Double that for 2D. [color="orange"]Tested on my laptop - PERFORMANCE IS EXACTLY THE SAME[/color] - without the damn stutters... (And this is on a older version of the game... Doubt they can do anything about it, honestly) (Stutters seem to be fixed with Nvidia driver 372.90) [color="orange"][s]- Nothing is disabled.[/s] - SEE BELOW[/color] A lot of things look exactly as in our fix (Probably they hit the same limitations/problems we did). Other things are looking a bit better, like the Screen Space Reflections;) - All the shadows are fixed. The problem that SKAUT reported I've seen even on the older version + Community FIX. The Ambient Occlusion seems to "lag" behind when you move the camera quickly. If you disabled AO it goes completely away. Is not an unfixed thing, but something is a bit strange there. You can see it for a tiny brief moment. <- VERY HARD TO DEBUG even if they want to. [color="orange"] Since HBAO+ is disabled on the official path, you will see it more - like in the community fix![/color], as only SSAO is available! - Surround WORKS finally! - ONLY THING that I found BROKEN is the laser DOT on the RIFFLES in SURROUND configs. [s]Seems to work fine in Single Screen:)[/s] [color="orange"]IT IS ALSO BROKEN IN SINGLE SCREEN[/color] So there is that;) [url=http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=hwzpnxu0.z5l.jpg][img]http://iforce.co.nz/i/hwzpnxu0.z5l.jpg[/img][/url] Else looks flawless and very good!;) EDIT 1: - Very strange on my Laptop I get massive stuttering and FPS drops when rotation the camera around... - Using the older version + Community Fix it works perfect. Sure, it takes longer to load but once is loaded it works perfectly fine.
Well based on my testing:

- You need to use official SLI bits. Alternative ones will produce massive flickers!!!! (You can still use the older version of the game with the alternative SLI bits and works nice. Only some snow trails will flicker).
SLI seems to be working very good almost all times;) In some KNOWN locations it will work less but still working.

- Performance-wise I can't say if is better than the older version but I am running 2x980Ti in 3D Surround at 5760x1080 so... My FPS is from 30 to 50 in 3D Surround. Double that for 2D.
Tested on my laptop - PERFORMANCE IS EXACTLY THE SAME - without the damn stutters... (And this is on a older version of the game... Doubt they can do anything about it, honestly)
(Stutters seem to be fixed with Nvidia driver 372.90)

- Nothing is disabled. - SEE BELOW
A lot of things look exactly as in our fix (Probably they hit the same limitations/problems we did). Other things are looking a bit better, like the Screen Space Reflections;)

- All the shadows are fixed. The problem that SKAUT reported I've seen even on the older version + Community FIX. The Ambient Occlusion seems to "lag" behind when you move the camera quickly. If you disabled AO it goes completely away. Is not an unfixed thing, but something is a bit strange there. You can see it for a tiny brief moment. <- VERY HARD TO DEBUG even if they want to.
Since HBAO+ is disabled on the official path, you will see it more - like in the community fix!, as only SSAO is available!

- Surround WORKS finally!

- ONLY THING that I found BROKEN is the laser DOT on the RIFFLES in SURROUND configs. Seems to work fine in Single Screen:) IT IS ALSO BROKEN IN SINGLE SCREEN So there is that;)
Image


Else looks flawless and very good!;)

EDIT 1:
- Very strange on my Laptop I get massive stuttering and FPS drops when rotation the camera around...
- Using the older version + Community Fix it works perfect. Sure, it takes longer to load but once is loaded it works perfectly fine.

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

Posted 07/08/2016 07:02 PM   
Wow, I would have had to wait this long to play on Surround- helifax - Thank YOU so much for the "original" fix :-)
Wow, I would have had to wait this long to play on Surround-

helifax - Thank YOU so much for the "original" fix :-)

Posted 07/08/2016 07:51 PM   
Thank you Helifax for your feedback! So, after some months developpers have finaly released a game which can be rate "3D vision ready"!!. I didn't think that they will make some improvement for 3D Vision. After your test, do you recommand this official fix? I will still make some test with my rig, a small GTX980 :( ^^
Thank you Helifax for your feedback! So, after some months developpers have finaly released a game which can be rate "3D vision ready"!!. I didn't think that they will make some improvement for 3D Vision.

After your test, do you recommand this official fix? I will still make some test with my rig, a small GTX980 :( ^^

Asus Maximus VII Ranger - i7 4790k - Zotac GTX 980 AMP Edition - 16GB DDR3 G.Skill - ASUS VG278HE - Windows 7
My 3D Vision Live Gallery: http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Torque99
My first 3D Trailer: https://youtu.be/SRF5fNOV-H8 -> Download the video and watch it with a 3D video player

Posted 07/08/2016 09:27 PM   
[quote="Torque67"]Thank you Helifax for your feedback! So, after some months developpers have finaly released a game which can be rate "3D vision ready"!!. I didn't think that they will make some improvement for 3D Vision. After your test, do you recommand this official fix? I will still make some test with my rig, a small GTX980 :( ^^[/quote] The official fix is almost perfect! There are a couple of IFs: - If you don't mind the "laser dot" being broken - On my laptop, where the FPS is mostly around 30 FPS in 3D Vision, if I move the camera fast, I get stutters. This goes away if 3D Vision is TURNED-OFF (but enabled in NVPANEL and then I, obviously, maintain the 60 FPS). Using the community fix you will see the FPS go down (in the same scenario) but without the stutters. - SSAO [i]might[/i] act a bit MORE strange than the Community fix (but not by much). - NO HBAO+ OPTION for Ambient Occlusion. And SSAO looks...well, "bad". See below. - [s]You get better FPS overall with the official patch/fix, but those stutters annoy me soo much;)) Again, related to the FPS.[/s] - PureHair works properly now, in all configuration scenarios;) Now, is up to you basically! Official patch ss looking awesome! Not 100% perfect, but very 99.9% ;) If the stutters annoy you, try the older version + Community fix to see the difference;) I really hope that our fix and contribution helped the developers SEE and UNDERSTAND HOW GOOD THIS GAME CAN LOOK/BE in 3D Vision;) (And that they will offer the same 3D Support for future games ^_^)
Torque67 said:Thank you Helifax for your feedback! So, after some months developpers have finaly released a game which can be rate "3D vision ready"!!. I didn't think that they will make some improvement for 3D Vision.

After your test, do you recommand this official fix? I will still make some test with my rig, a small GTX980 :( ^^


The official fix is almost perfect!

There are a couple of IFs:

- If you don't mind the "laser dot" being broken
- On my laptop, where the FPS is mostly around 30 FPS in 3D Vision, if I move the camera fast, I get stutters. This goes away if 3D Vision is TURNED-OFF (but enabled in NVPANEL and then I, obviously, maintain the 60 FPS). Using the community fix you will see the FPS go down (in the same scenario) but without the stutters.

- SSAO might act a bit MORE strange than the Community fix (but not by much).

- NO HBAO+ OPTION for Ambient Occlusion. And SSAO looks...well, "bad". See below.

- You get better FPS overall with the official patch/fix, but those stutters annoy me soo much;)) Again, related to the FPS.
- PureHair works properly now, in all configuration scenarios;)

Now, is up to you basically!
Official patch ss looking awesome! Not 100% perfect, but very 99.9% ;)
If the stutters annoy you, try the older version + Community fix to see the difference;)

I really hope that our fix and contribution helped the developers SEE and UNDERSTAND HOW GOOD THIS GAME CAN LOOK/BE in 3D Vision;) (And that they will offer the same 3D Support for future games ^_^)

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

Posted 07/08/2016 09:32 PM   
[color="orange"]DID YOU KNOW...[/color] that... - When using the OFFICIAL patch/fix, HBAO+ is disabled? - When running the Community fix, HBAO+ is enabled? (THANKS SKAUT for your comment. I believe this is what you saw ^_^) [color="green"]COMMUNITY PATCH - HBAO+ ON (appears as an in-game option)[/color] [url=http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=hqye4nl2.ybr.png][img]http://iforce.co.nz/i/hqye4nl2.ybr.png[/img][/url] [color="green"]COMMUNITY PATCH - HBAO+ OFF (Ambient Occlusion ON)[/color] - AKA. SSAO. [url=http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=bi3bgkrc.0qt.png][img]http://iforce.co.nz/i/bi3bgkrc.0qt.png[/img][/url] [color="green"]OFFICIAL PATCH - HBAO+ OFF (Don't have the option for HBAO+ in game)[/color] [url=http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=wqxei5ve.jqr.png][img]http://iforce.co.nz/i/wqxei5ve.jqr.png[/img][/url] PS: YES, I KNOW! I am a mean "son of a bitch" ;)) From my POINT of VIEW, HBAO+ adds quite [color="orange"] A BIG LOT[/color] to the game. See screenshot comparison above. Is the official fix worth it? [color="green"] HELL YES! [/color]. Is it better than our FIX? [color="green"]Nope, not there yet! ^_^[/color].
DID YOU KNOW... that...

- When using the OFFICIAL patch/fix, HBAO+ is disabled?
- When running the Community fix, HBAO+ is enabled?
(THANKS SKAUT for your comment. I believe this is what you saw ^_^)


COMMUNITY PATCH - HBAO+ ON (appears as an in-game option)
Image

COMMUNITY PATCH - HBAO+ OFF (Ambient Occlusion ON) - AKA. SSAO.
Image

OFFICIAL PATCH - HBAO+ OFF (Don't have the option for HBAO+ in game)
Image

PS:
YES, I KNOW! I am a mean "son of a bitch" ;))
From my POINT of VIEW, HBAO+ adds quite A BIG LOT to the game. See screenshot comparison above.

Is the official fix worth it? HELL YES! .
Is it better than our FIX? Nope, not there yet! ^_^.

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

Posted 07/08/2016 10:02 PM   
Nixxes did an awesome job with this latest patch! I had the same performance with official fix and the community fix: unplayable framerates in the big areas. This latest patch did not improve performance when using NVidia 3DVision or SBS in DX11. Geothermal Valley has constant stuttering, hitting 15fps and averaging 24fps. However, using DX12 SLI with SBS runs amazingly. In Geothermal Valley, my minimum fps is now 25, average is 50, and stuttering only happens on some transitions/saving. In terms of the 3D, I've only noticed a couple of minor issues remaining as they've fixed the majority of them. I would like for HBAO+ to work, but my hardware can't handle it anyway.
Nixxes did an awesome job with this latest patch!

I had the same performance with official fix and the community fix: unplayable framerates in the big areas. This latest patch did not improve performance when using NVidia 3DVision or SBS in DX11. Geothermal Valley has constant stuttering, hitting 15fps and averaging 24fps.

However, using DX12 SLI with SBS runs amazingly. In Geothermal Valley, my minimum fps is now 25, average is 50, and stuttering only happens on some transitions/saving.

In terms of the 3D, I've only noticed a couple of minor issues remaining as they've fixed the majority of them. I would like for HBAO+ to work, but my hardware can't handle it anyway.

i7-8086k @ 5.2GHz
EVGA GTX 1080Ti
16GB 3800MHz DDR4
Windows 7 x64

Posted 07/09/2016 04:13 AM   
Does anyone know why ROTR only offers SBS 3D Vision when using DX12? Is this a DX12 or engine limitatiom, or maybe just a simple coding decision? Also, as SBS doesn't work on my system (I get to see both screen side-by-side instead of one single 3D screen), is there any way to reconfigure my 3D Vision system to accept the SBS signal?
Does anyone know why ROTR only offers SBS 3D Vision when using DX12? Is this a DX12 or engine limitatiom, or maybe just a simple coding decision?

Also, as SBS doesn't work on my system (I get to see both screen side-by-side instead of one single 3D screen), is there any way to reconfigure my 3D Vision system to accept the SBS signal?

Posted 07/09/2016 05:45 AM   
You say that HBAO+ doesn't work with the official 3D mode, but what about VXAO (or SSAO)? I don't have the game so I can't try.
You say that HBAO+ doesn't work with the official 3D mode, but what about VXAO (or SSAO)? I don't have the game so I can't try.

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: MSI GeForce RTX 2080Ti Gaming X Trio
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506
Donations account: masterotakusuko@gmail.com

Posted 07/09/2016 08:00 AM   
Very interesting, no HBAO+ with the official patch and 3D :( Why they didn't add this whereas the community patch works flawlessly with this option. I agree with you Helifax, HBAO+ is much better, more contrasted and adds more realistic shadows than SSAO. If I have the choice, I choose HBAO+. I don't remember if the official patch has dynamic crosshair, can you affirm that? Thank you oneup03, I hoped that this fix will be more optimized in 3D:( I was too optimistic^^ And according to Helifax, the game has stutters whith the new patch. @masterotaku VXAO is maybe fixed in 3D, I don't know, but I think, few peope will play in 3D with VXAO enabled, even with a GTX1080, the FPS drop dramatically with this feature.
Very interesting, no HBAO+ with the official patch and 3D :( Why they didn't add this whereas the community patch works flawlessly with this option.

I agree with you Helifax, HBAO+ is much better, more contrasted and adds more realistic shadows than SSAO. If I have the choice, I choose HBAO+.

I don't remember if the official patch has dynamic crosshair, can you affirm that?

Thank you oneup03, I hoped that this fix will be more optimized in 3D:( I was too optimistic^^ And according to Helifax, the game has stutters whith the new patch.

@masterotaku VXAO is maybe fixed in 3D, I don't know, but I think, few peope will play in 3D with VXAO enabled, even with a GTX1080, the FPS drop dramatically with this feature.

Asus Maximus VII Ranger - i7 4790k - Zotac GTX 980 AMP Edition - 16GB DDR3 G.Skill - ASUS VG278HE - Windows 7
My 3D Vision Live Gallery: http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/Torque99
My first 3D Trailer: https://youtu.be/SRF5fNOV-H8 -> Download the video and watch it with a 3D video player

Posted 07/09/2016 08:42 AM   
yeah HBAO is too nice to ignore.
yeah HBAO is too nice to ignore.

i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
ASUS Turbo 2080TI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS3D
Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)

Posted 07/09/2016 09:19 AM   
Oh, didn't realise VXAO is an option in DX11. I thought is DX12 only. Nope, in DX11 with official patch AO has 2 Options: OFF and ON. ON is SSAO. That is it;) Earlier version of the game for the Community fix, doesn't have VXAO option as it was later patched in. In DX12, I don't know why they decided to disable 3D Vision. You can still force 3D Vision Automatic though;) but of course, you need a DX12 wrapper and to redo the work we did for the Community FIX again, this time for DX12. [quote="wickedscav"]Does anyone know why ROTR only offers SBS 3D Vision when using DX12? Is this a DX12 or engine limitatiom, or maybe just a simple coding decision? Also, as SBS doesn't work on my system (I get to see both screen side-by-side instead of one single 3D screen), is there any way to reconfigure my 3D Vision system to accept the SBS signal?[/quote] Yes, I get the exact same drops but only on my laptop WHEN I make it render below 30 FPS. If I lower the resolution to 800x480, for example, and maintain 60 FPS in 3D Vision, the stuttering is completely gone. On the earlier version + Community fix, you don't get the stutters, but the FPS drop is exactly the same. Same locations. I used a predefined path in Lost City on which I walked with both patches just to test it;) Game uses 3D Vision Direct (not 3D Vision Automatic we normally use) and it has been disabled on DX12 because probably they need to do the same thing again for DX12 like they did for DX11. I am not familiar with DX12, (never tried it to be honest) but I expect the shaders are different than DX11 and that's why they need to do the same thing all over again. Is not really WORTH the effort and I agree with them on this. If is working in DX11 and is "3D Vision Ready" then that is golden;) Crosshair is Dynamic in the official fix, but the laser DOT for the rifle is broken. It is "In-Depth" but with a very tiny separation. It needs correcting. Sadly, I tried 3DMigoto on it, but I couldn't find the shader:(
Oh, didn't realise VXAO is an option in DX11. I thought is DX12 only.

Nope, in DX11 with official patch AO has 2 Options: OFF and ON. ON is SSAO. That is it;) Earlier version of the game for the Community fix, doesn't have VXAO option as it was later patched in.

In DX12, I don't know why they decided to disable 3D Vision. You can still force 3D Vision Automatic though;) but of course, you need a DX12 wrapper and to redo the work we did for the Community FIX again, this time for DX12.

wickedscav said:Does anyone know why ROTR only offers SBS 3D Vision when using DX12? Is this a DX12 or engine limitatiom, or maybe just a simple coding decision?

Also, as SBS doesn't work on my system (I get to see both screen side-by-side instead of one single 3D screen), is there any way to reconfigure my 3D Vision system to accept the SBS signal?


Yes, I get the exact same drops but only on my laptop WHEN I make it render below 30 FPS. If I lower the resolution to 800x480, for example, and maintain 60 FPS in 3D Vision, the stuttering is completely gone.

On the earlier version + Community fix, you don't get the stutters, but the FPS drop is exactly the same. Same locations. I used a predefined path in Lost City on which I walked with both patches just to test it;)

Game uses 3D Vision Direct (not 3D Vision Automatic we normally use) and it has been disabled on DX12 because probably they need to do the same thing again for DX12 like they did for DX11. I am not familiar with DX12, (never tried it to be honest) but I expect the shaders are different than DX11 and that's why they need to do the same thing all over again. Is not really WORTH the effort and I agree with them on this.
If is working in DX11 and is "3D Vision Ready" then that is golden;)


Crosshair is Dynamic in the official fix, but the laser DOT for the rifle is broken. It is "In-Depth" but with a very tiny separation. It needs correcting. Sadly, I tried 3DMigoto on it, but I couldn't find the shader:(

1x Palit RTX 2080Ti Pro Gaming OC(watercooled and overclocked to hell)
3x 3D Vision Ready Asus VG278HE monitors (5760x1080).
Intel i9 9900K (overclocked to 5.3 and watercooled ofc).
Asus Maximus XI Hero Mobo.
16 GB Team Group T-Force Dark Pro DDR4 @ 3600.
Lots of Disks:
- Raid 0 - 256GB Sandisk Extreme SSD.
- Raid 0 - WD Black - 2TB.
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 480 GB.
- Intel 760p 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
Creative Sound Blaster Z.
Windows 10 x64 Pro.
etc


My website with my fixes and OpenGL to 3D Vision wrapper:
http://3dsurroundgaming.com

(If you like some of the stuff that I've done and want to donate something, you can do it with PayPal at tavyhome@gmail.com)

Posted 07/09/2016 11:30 AM   
Thanks for the great fix! Didn`t trie the offical patch , jumped straight to this awesome fix.
Thanks for the great fix!
Didn`t trie the offical patch , jumped straight to this awesome fix.

Posted 07/09/2016 11:58 AM   
Nice update. Helifax, are you in contact with the devs? I hope you gonna do a full report, for maybe have it PERFECT in the next 3D patch if there is one. Will be glad to get all your hard work in the official version. Thank you again for all the shaderhackers ;). Maybe can you make a feedback one day in the future on the VXAO. Curious about this thing. I still don't bought this game, waiting to buy a very strong computer (1080Ti or 1180 one) to enjoy all the great games you fixed all. Witcher 3 i still wait you :D.
Nice update.

Helifax, are you in contact with the devs?

I hope you gonna do a full report, for maybe have it PERFECT in the next 3D patch if there is one.

Will be glad to get all your hard work in the official version.

Thank you again for all the shaderhackers ;).


Maybe can you make a feedback one day in the future on the VXAO.
Curious about this thing.

I still don't bought this game, waiting to buy a very strong computer (1080Ti or 1180 one) to enjoy all the great games you fixed all.

Witcher 3 i still wait you :D.

Posted 07/10/2016 04:51 AM   
Hello, is there any way to just add top-to-bottom support for on top of the official patch?
Hello, is there any way to just add top-to-bottom support for on top of the official patch?

Posted 08/09/2016 06:39 PM   
I wonder about the devs, Wouldn´t it be simpe as walking in the park to make 3d support native in the game ? Couldn´t you just make the engine render 2 times with different view port. If it needs make SLI mandatory, one gpu for each eye. These new games require couple top end cards anyway to play in stereo.
I wonder about the devs, Wouldn´t it be simpe as walking in the park to make 3d support native in the game ?
Couldn´t you just make the engine render 2 times with different view port. If it needs make SLI mandatory,
one gpu for each eye. These new games require couple top end cards anyway to play in stereo.

CoreX9 Custom watercooling (valkswagen polo radiator)
I7-8700k@4.7
TitanX pascal with shitty stock cooler
Win7/10
Video: Passive 3D fullhd 3D@60hz/channel Denon x1200w /Hc5 x 2 Geobox501->eeColorBoxes->polarizers/omega filttersCustom made silverscreen
Ocupation: Enterprenior.Painting/surfacing/constructions
Interests/skills:
3D gaming,3D movies, 3D printing,Drums, Bass and guitar.
Suomi - FINLAND - perkele

Posted 08/09/2016 07:35 PM   
  40 / 50    
Scroll To Top