3DTV Play in Side by Side mode Will Nvidia considering adding SbS?
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I think there are many gamers would love to see Side by Side added to 3DTV play.
Potential customers who want to game on their HDTVs and would like the great game support of Nvidia 3D drivers, but are forced to other products due to 3DTV Play's lack of a most basic display output.
Side by Side support would not be a complicated addition to the software drivers. Left and Right 1920x1080 frames would be squished side by side into a single frame. Surely Nvidia engineers could manage this /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />
SbS is one of the most widely supported formats by HDTVs. It looks much better than 720p framepacked. It would be the top choice for gaming through HDMI for those without checkerboard TVs.
If Nvidia has ruled out SbS as a potential addition to 3DTV Play for strategic, policy, legal or other reasons, please let us know.
[b]Post here if you'd like to see Side by Side supported through 3DTV Play.
[/b]
I think there are many gamers would love to see Side by Side added to 3DTV play.
Potential customers who want to game on their HDTVs and would like the great game support of Nvidia 3D drivers, but are forced to other products due to 3DTV Play's lack of a most basic display output.
Side by Side support would not be a complicated addition to the software drivers. Left and Right 1920x1080 frames would be squished side by side into a single frame. Surely Nvidia engineers could manage this /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />
SbS is one of the most widely supported formats by HDTVs. It looks much better than 720p framepacked. It would be the top choice for gaming through HDMI for those without checkerboard TVs.
If Nvidia has ruled out SbS as a potential addition to 3DTV Play for strategic, policy, legal or other reasons, please let us know.
Post here if you'd like to see Side by Side supported through 3DTV Play.
Finding a used 2010 Samsung 3DTV has been hard, and considering getting the 2011 Panasonic VT30.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
I would love if Nvidia added support for side-by-side in the 3DTV Play driver. This would also help with support for other devices, like recent Vuzix HMDs. I would pay money.
I would love if Nvidia added support for side-by-side in the 3DTV Play driver. This would also help with support for other devices, like recent Vuzix HMDs. I would pay money.
[quote name='paradox-MK' date='18 June 2011 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1308404198' post='1253386']
Finding a used 2010 Samsung 3DTV has been hard, and considering getting the 2011 Panasonic VT30.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
[/quote]
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
[quote name='paradox-MK' date='18 June 2011 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1308404198' post='1253386']
Finding a used 2010 Samsung 3DTV has been hard, and considering getting the 2011 Panasonic VT30.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1308412201' post='1253433']
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
[/quote]
CB would be nice for those with compatible displays, but it would be more complicated to implement than SbS (yes I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision, but never 3DTv play as far as I know). Adding SbS to the drivers should be a no-brainer and very simple to implement. Not only is the lack of SbS pushing customers to Tridef, but to AMD too. I've yet to build my gaming computer, and if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.
720p framepacking looks terrible on 1080p displays. SbS scales very well into 1080p. Since the squished width is exactly half, it stretches exactly into every second horizontal pixel, and the vertical needs no scaling at all!
I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards? I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1308412201' post='1253433']
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
CB would be nice for those with compatible displays, but it would be more complicated to implement than SbS (yes I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision, but never 3DTv play as far as I know). Adding SbS to the drivers should be a no-brainer and very simple to implement. Not only is the lack of SbS pushing customers to Tridef, but to AMD too. I've yet to build my gaming computer, and if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.
720p framepacking looks terrible on 1080p displays. SbS scales very well into 1080p. Since the squished width is exactly half, it stretches exactly into every second horizontal pixel, and the vertical needs no scaling at all!
I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards? I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
[quote name='Hixbot' date='18 June 2011 - 09:55 AM' timestamp='1308412539' post='1253435']
I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision, [/quote]
What do you mean CB *was* supported? CB *is* supported in 3DV, has been ever since it was released years ago.
[quote] if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.[/quote]
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
[quote]I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards?[/quote]
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
[quote]I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
[/quote]
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it. If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
[quote name='Hixbot' date='18 June 2011 - 09:55 AM' timestamp='1308412539' post='1253435']
I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision,
What do you mean CB *was* supported? CB *is* supported in 3DV, has been ever since it was released years ago.
if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards?
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it. If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
You guys do know that you can do Side-by-Side mode with both the IZ3D driver and DDD TriDef Ignition driver, right? They both work on either Nvidia or AMD cards.
You guys do know that you can do Side-by-Side mode with both the IZ3D driver and DDD TriDef Ignition driver, right? They both work on either Nvidia or AMD cards.
[quote name='cybereality' date='18 June 2011 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1308420419' post='1253497']
You guys do know that you can do Side-by-Side mode with both the IZ3D driver and DDD TriDef Ignition driver, right? They both work on either Nvidia or AMD cards.
[/quote]
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
[quote name='cybereality' date='18 June 2011 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1308420419' post='1253497']
You guys do know that you can do Side-by-Side mode with both the IZ3D driver and DDD TriDef Ignition driver, right? They both work on either Nvidia or AMD cards.
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1308423913' post='1253526']
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
[/quote]
Exactly! I for one, am tired of waiting for the CE industry / NVIDIA to support 1080p/60hz S3D.
If I keep waiting, it might be 12 months or 48 months until the 300 MHz HDMI chip hits 3DTVs. Who knows when we'll be able to get this.
I've decided to get the 63" C8000 plasma tomorrow and have asked roller to send me a Signal Canceler so I may play 1080p/60hz S3D.
It's been tested at 17-20ms Input Delay against a lagless CRT monitor in Game Mode so I'll be enjoying this until 1080p/60hz FP shows up.
For others who don't have CB enabled 3DTVs, I do hope NVIDIA gives us SBS.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1308423913' post='1253526']
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
Exactly! I for one, am tired of waiting for the CE industry / NVIDIA to support 1080p/60hz S3D.
If I keep waiting, it might be 12 months or 48 months until the 300 MHz HDMI chip hits 3DTVs. Who knows when we'll be able to get this.
I've decided to get the 63" C8000 plasma tomorrow and have asked roller to send me a Signal Canceler so I may play 1080p/60hz S3D.
It's been tested at 17-20ms Input Delay against a lagless CRT monitor in Game Mode so I'll be enjoying this until 1080p/60hz FP shows up.
For others who don't have CB enabled 3DTVs, I do hope NVIDIA gives us SBS.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1308423913' post='1253526']
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
[/quote]I just can't help inflicking: In the past we were able to use those drivers which gave the best experience. If iz3d was best than i used it, if nvidia was better with other games i used nvidia for those. Sadly this luxury is not available anymore. Personally i'd love a situation were iz3d and nvidia compete against each other doing drivers while both drivers still would support all existing solutions. Then hardwaremanufacturers would be forced to compete with price/quality thus increasing the speed of hardwaredevelopement for 3d overall. Since nvidia makes their own drivers it would make the choice of graphiccard very easy for those who want 3d-compability. Right now as is today i rather choose anything else than nvidia. Just my little thought though...
I wouldn't say iz3d or tridef are inferior in any way compared to 3d-vision but i lack the oppurtunity to try and compare.
Tridef is most often better in visual quality but have perfomance issues. Iz3d and 3d-vision are probably pretty close to each other in quality i think. Nvidiadrivers on the other hand are not the best because of the very poor hardwarecompability. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1308423913' post='1253526']
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
I just can't help inflicking: In the past we were able to use those drivers which gave the best experience. If iz3d was best than i used it, if nvidia was better with other games i used nvidia for those. Sadly this luxury is not available anymore. Personally i'd love a situation were iz3d and nvidia compete against each other doing drivers while both drivers still would support all existing solutions. Then hardwaremanufacturers would be forced to compete with price/quality thus increasing the speed of hardwaredevelopement for 3d overall. Since nvidia makes their own drivers it would make the choice of graphiccard very easy for those who want 3d-compability. Right now as is today i rather choose anything else than nvidia. Just my little thought though...
I wouldn't say iz3d or tridef are inferior in any way compared to 3d-vision but i lack the oppurtunity to try and compare.
Tridef is most often better in visual quality but have perfomance issues. Iz3d and 3d-vision are probably pretty close to each other in quality i think. Nvidiadrivers on the other hand are not the best because of the very poor hardwarecompability. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
I've used all drivers out there: Nvidia, IZ3D, DDD, and even Vuzix. I admit, if I had to choose one, I would pick Nvidia, but they all have their advantages. Certain games will even look better with other drivers, I find the quality on DDD to be very nice (however the amount of supported games is not as high). Vuzix had the best implementation for Crysis, allowing the game to be played with all settings on without compromise (for example shadows looked perfect). IZ3D is pretty close to Nvidia for most games. Its not that these other drivers are garbage, just because Nvidia may have a slight advantage overall.
I've used all drivers out there: Nvidia, IZ3D, DDD, and even Vuzix. I admit, if I had to choose one, I would pick Nvidia, but they all have their advantages. Certain games will even look better with other drivers, I find the quality on DDD to be very nice (however the amount of supported games is not as high). Vuzix had the best implementation for Crysis, allowing the game to be played with all settings on without compromise (for example shadows looked perfect). IZ3D is pretty close to Nvidia for most games. Its not that these other drivers are garbage, just because Nvidia may have a slight advantage overall.
[quote name='roller11' date='19 June 2011 - 02:24 AM' timestamp='1308443069' post='1253629']
What?? You say you've never seen 3D Vision, yet some how you know it is no better than iZ3D/Tridef ???
Are you serious?
Like I said, if these alternatives were 'just as good' as 3DV, people would not be going to extremes to make 3DV work.
[/quote]The point is that inferior is not the word to use. Both companies are doing a great job. Since i still see reports where iz3d or tridef sometimes performs better than nvidia with certain games (there are even threads on this forum) it's certainly wrong to say nvidia is that superior right?
[quote name='roller11' date='19 June 2011 - 02:24 AM' timestamp='1308443069' post='1253629']
What?? You say you've never seen 3D Vision, yet some how you know it is no better than iZ3D/Tridef ???
Are you serious?
Like I said, if these alternatives were 'just as good' as 3DV, people would not be going to extremes to make 3DV work.
The point is that inferior is not the word to use. Both companies are doing a great job. Since i still see reports where iz3d or tridef sometimes performs better than nvidia with certain games (there are even threads on this forum) it's certainly wrong to say nvidia is that superior right?
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
[/quote]
That's my point, if 3DTV Play is useless to me due to lack of SbS, I'll just get an AMD card and use Tridef or Iz3d. Why buy Nvidia if I can't benefit from their software, and they refuse to support the simple requests of their customers?
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
[/quote]
That's a ridiculous reason. PC gamers are used to intervention. Besides, framepacking mode could be still offered to those who want automatic convenience. Also in many ways SbS is the simplest to deal with. Old HDMI AVRs will support it. It's a simple frame compatible format that has few headaches to implement. Turn your TV to manual SbS and enjoy. This is all on top of the fact that SbS looks MUCH better than 720p fp.
The xbox 360 uses SbS to support 3D. If xbox gamers can handle putting their TVs into SbS surely a PC gamer could figure it out.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it.
[/quote]
That's the wrong attitude. I'm sure if many, many people signed a petition, and Nvidia realized how many sales they are losing, they'd reconsider.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
[/quote]
I want to buy a plasma TV and I want the benefit of 2011 plasma TVs that have less crosstalk. 2010 Samsung plasmas have much more crosstalk than the 2011 samsung plasmas. 2011 samsung plasmas beat the 2011 panasonic plasmas in crosstalk tests. I won't even consider a LED tv for more than just crosstalk reasons (2d picture). I like DLP but as long as DLP can't do full 1080p24 for bluray I won't consider them either. Truly, Nvidia is holding me back from spending a lot of coin on a new plasma and gaming computer. I will simply wait years until a new 3DTV and 3D drivers hit the performance I want. Or I'll jump on a 2011 sammy plasma and a gaming computer with an AMD card and Tridef and IZ3d.
Nvidia, 720p framepacking is terrible! Please listen to us!
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
That's my point, if 3DTV Play is useless to me due to lack of SbS, I'll just get an AMD card and use Tridef or Iz3d. Why buy Nvidia if I can't benefit from their software, and they refuse to support the simple requests of their customers?
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
That's a ridiculous reason. PC gamers are used to intervention. Besides, framepacking mode could be still offered to those who want automatic convenience. Also in many ways SbS is the simplest to deal with. Old HDMI AVRs will support it. It's a simple frame compatible format that has few headaches to implement. Turn your TV to manual SbS and enjoy. This is all on top of the fact that SbS looks MUCH better than 720p fp.
The xbox 360 uses SbS to support 3D. If xbox gamers can handle putting their TVs into SbS surely a PC gamer could figure it out.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it.
That's the wrong attitude. I'm sure if many, many people signed a petition, and Nvidia realized how many sales they are losing, they'd reconsider.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
I want to buy a plasma TV and I want the benefit of 2011 plasma TVs that have less crosstalk. 2010 Samsung plasmas have much more crosstalk than the 2011 samsung plasmas. 2011 samsung plasmas beat the 2011 panasonic plasmas in crosstalk tests. I won't even consider a LED tv for more than just crosstalk reasons (2d picture). I like DLP but as long as DLP can't do full 1080p24 for bluray I won't consider them either. Truly, Nvidia is holding me back from spending a lot of coin on a new plasma and gaming computer. I will simply wait years until a new 3DTV and 3D drivers hit the performance I want. Or I'll jump on a 2011 sammy plasma and a gaming computer with an AMD card and Tridef and IZ3d.
Nvidia, 720p framepacking is terrible! Please listen to us!
Potential customers who want to game on their HDTVs and would like the great game support of Nvidia 3D drivers, but are forced to other products due to 3DTV Play's lack of a most basic display output.
Side by Side support would not be a complicated addition to the software drivers. Left and Right 1920x1080 frames would be squished side by side into a single frame. Surely Nvidia engineers could manage this
SbS is one of the most widely supported formats by HDTVs. It looks much better than 720p framepacked. It would be the top choice for gaming through HDMI for those without checkerboard TVs.
If Nvidia has ruled out SbS as a potential addition to 3DTV Play for strategic, policy, legal or other reasons, please let us know.
[b]Post here if you'd like to see Side by Side supported through 3DTV Play.
[/b]
Potential customers who want to game on their HDTVs and would like the great game support of Nvidia 3D drivers, but are forced to other products due to 3DTV Play's lack of a most basic display output.
Side by Side support would not be a complicated addition to the software drivers. Left and Right 1920x1080 frames would be squished side by side into a single frame. Surely Nvidia engineers could manage this
SbS is one of the most widely supported formats by HDTVs. It looks much better than 720p framepacked. It would be the top choice for gaming through HDMI for those without checkerboard TVs.
If Nvidia has ruled out SbS as a potential addition to 3DTV Play for strategic, policy, legal or other reasons, please let us know.
Post here if you'd like to see Side by Side supported through 3DTV Play.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
check my blog - cybereality.com
Finding a used 2010 Samsung 3DTV has been hard, and considering getting the 2011 Panasonic VT30.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
[/quote]
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
Finding a used 2010 Samsung 3DTV has been hard, and considering getting the 2011 Panasonic VT30.
Currently all 3DTVs support Side by Side mode, but the problem is that the only 2011 TVs that have Checkerboard mode is the Samsung LED TV.
So roller's fix wouldn't work for me.
I am seriously considering using TriDef since 3DTV Play doesn't support SBS mode while TriDef does.
If NVIDIA gave us SBS there would be no reason to use other party's 3D products.
It would be great if NVIDIA would give us an answer to this.
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
[/quote]
CB would be nice for those with compatible displays, but it would be more complicated to implement than SbS (yes I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision, but never 3DTv play as far as I know). Adding SbS to the drivers should be a no-brainer and very simple to implement. Not only is the lack of SbS pushing customers to Tridef, but to AMD too. I've yet to build my gaming computer, and if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.
720p framepacking looks terrible on 1080p displays. SbS scales very well into 1080p. Since the squished width is exactly half, it stretches exactly into every second horizontal pixel, and the vertical needs no scaling at all!
I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards? I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
Given Nvidia's broken promise of CB in 3DTV Play (which nobody believes anymore) it is very unlikely they will do anything about SBS.
LG has advertized CB support in their 2011 line up for both LED and Plasma. I'm waiting for WMT to get back to me about testing CB in his 55LX9500, hopefully he will help us out today by testing CB on his 2011 LG.
CB would be nice for those with compatible displays, but it would be more complicated to implement than SbS (yes I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision, but never 3DTv play as far as I know). Adding SbS to the drivers should be a no-brainer and very simple to implement. Not only is the lack of SbS pushing customers to Tridef, but to AMD too. I've yet to build my gaming computer, and if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.
720p framepacking looks terrible on 1080p displays. SbS scales very well into 1080p. Since the squished width is exactly half, it stretches exactly into every second horizontal pixel, and the vertical needs no scaling at all!
I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards? I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530
I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision, [/quote]
What do you mean CB *was* supported? CB *is* supported in 3DV, has been ever since it was released years ago.
[quote] if I can't get the benefit of Nvidia's 3D drivers on my 3DTV. I'll just buy an AMD card.[/quote]
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
[quote]I'm starting to believe Nvidia has considered SbS but ruled it out due to some sort of business policy. Is it because SbS can be supported by even HDMI 1.0 or basic DVI? Could it be because it would be ironic to deliver it to only to HDMI 1.4 cards, when it could be easily supported by older cards?[/quote]
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
[quote]I'm trying to wrap my head around why Nvidia won't give us such a basic compatibility. Surely it's not because it's too difficult to implement. They've decided against it, and won't tell us. If they realize they are losing many sales. Perhaps they'd reconsider. This is why people need to speak up.
[/quote]
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it. If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
I realize CB was supported once in Nvidia Vision,
What do you mean CB *was* supported? CB *is* supported in 3DV, has been ever since it was released years ago.
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it. If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
check my blog - cybereality.com
You guys do know that you can do Side-by-Side mode with both the IZ3D driver and DDD TriDef Ignition driver, right? They both work on either Nvidia or AMD cards.
[/quote]
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
You guys do know that you can do Side-by-Side mode with both the IZ3D driver and DDD TriDef Ignition driver, right? They both work on either Nvidia or AMD cards.
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
[/quote]
Exactly! I for one, am tired of waiting for the CE industry / NVIDIA to support 1080p/60hz S3D.
If I keep waiting, it might be 12 months or 48 months until the 300 MHz HDMI chip hits 3DTVs. Who knows when we'll be able to get this.
I've decided to get the 63" C8000 plasma tomorrow and have asked roller to send me a Signal Canceler so I may play 1080p/60hz S3D.
It's been tested at 17-20ms Input Delay against a lagless CRT monitor in Game Mode so I'll be enjoying this until 1080p/60hz FP shows up.
For others who don't have CB enabled 3DTVs, I do hope NVIDIA gives us SBS.
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
Exactly! I for one, am tired of waiting for the CE industry / NVIDIA to support 1080p/60hz S3D.
If I keep waiting, it might be 12 months or 48 months until the 300 MHz HDMI chip hits 3DTVs. Who knows when we'll be able to get this.
I've decided to get the 63" C8000 plasma tomorrow and have asked roller to send me a Signal Canceler so I may play 1080p/60hz S3D.
It's been tested at 17-20ms Input Delay against a lagless CRT monitor in Game Mode so I'll be enjoying this until 1080p/60hz FP shows up.
For others who don't have CB enabled 3DTVs, I do hope NVIDIA gives us SBS.
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
[/quote]I just can't help inflicking: In the past we were able to use those drivers which gave the best experience. If iz3d was best than i used it, if nvidia was better with other games i used nvidia for those. Sadly this luxury is not available anymore. Personally i'd love a situation were iz3d and nvidia compete against each other doing drivers while both drivers still would support all existing solutions. Then hardwaremanufacturers would be forced to compete with price/quality thus increasing the speed of hardwaredevelopement for 3d overall. Since nvidia makes their own drivers it would make the choice of graphiccard very easy for those who want 3d-compability. Right now as is today i rather choose anything else than nvidia. Just my little thought though...
I wouldn't say iz3d or tridef are inferior in any way compared to 3d-vision but i lack the oppurtunity to try and compare.
Tridef is most often better in visual quality but have perfomance issues. Iz3d and 3d-vision are probably pretty close to each other in quality i think. Nvidiadrivers on the other hand are not the best because of the very poor hardwarecompability.
If TriDef 3D or iZ3D worked as well as 3D Vision, then people would not jump through flaming hoops backwards to get 3D Vision, they would just use the inferior drivers.
If you want quality not compromise, use 3D Vision.
I just can't help inflicking: In the past we were able to use those drivers which gave the best experience. If iz3d was best than i used it, if nvidia was better with other games i used nvidia for those. Sadly this luxury is not available anymore. Personally i'd love a situation were iz3d and nvidia compete against each other doing drivers while both drivers still would support all existing solutions. Then hardwaremanufacturers would be forced to compete with price/quality thus increasing the speed of hardwaredevelopement for 3d overall. Since nvidia makes their own drivers it would make the choice of graphiccard very easy for those who want 3d-compability. Right now as is today i rather choose anything else than nvidia. Just my little thought though...
I wouldn't say iz3d or tridef are inferior in any way compared to 3d-vision but i lack the oppurtunity to try and compare.
Tridef is most often better in visual quality but have perfomance issues. Iz3d and 3d-vision are probably pretty close to each other in quality i think. Nvidiadrivers on the other hand are not the best because of the very poor hardwarecompability.
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
I wouldn't say iz3d or tridef are inferior in any way compared to 3d-vision but i lack the oppurtunity to try and compare.
[/quote]
What?? You say you've never seen 3D Vision, yet some how you know it is no better than iZ3D/Tridef ???
Are you serious?
Like I said, if these alternatives were 'just as good' as 3DV, people would not be going to extremes to make 3DV work.
I wouldn't say iz3d or tridef are inferior in any way compared to 3d-vision but i lack the oppurtunity to try and compare.
What?? You say you've never seen 3D Vision, yet some how you know it is no better than iZ3D/Tridef ???
Are you serious?
Like I said, if these alternatives were 'just as good' as 3DV, people would not be going to extremes to make 3DV work.
check my blog - cybereality.com
What?? You say you've never seen 3D Vision, yet some how you know it is no better than iZ3D/Tridef ???
Are you serious?
Like I said, if these alternatives were 'just as good' as 3DV, people would not be going to extremes to make 3DV work.
[/quote]The point is that inferior is not the word to use. Both companies are doing a great job. Since i still see reports where iz3d or tridef sometimes performs better than nvidia with certain games (there are even threads on this forum) it's certainly wrong to say nvidia is that superior right?
What?? You say you've never seen 3D Vision, yet some how you know it is no better than iZ3D/Tridef ???
Are you serious?
Like I said, if these alternatives were 'just as good' as 3DV, people would not be going to extremes to make 3DV work.
The point is that inferior is not the word to use. Both companies are doing a great job. Since i still see reports where iz3d or tridef sometimes performs better than nvidia with certain games (there are even threads on this forum) it's certainly wrong to say nvidia is that superior right?
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
[/quote]
That's my point, if 3DTV Play is useless to me due to lack of SbS, I'll just get an AMD card and use Tridef or Iz3d. Why buy Nvidia if I can't benefit from their software, and they refuse to support the simple requests of their customers?
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
[/quote]
That's a ridiculous reason. PC gamers are used to intervention. Besides, framepacking mode could be still offered to those who want automatic convenience. Also in many ways SbS is the simplest to deal with. Old HDMI AVRs will support it. It's a simple frame compatible format that has few headaches to implement. Turn your TV to manual SbS and enjoy. This is all on top of the fact that SbS looks MUCH better than 720p fp.
The xbox 360 uses SbS to support 3D. If xbox gamers can handle putting their TVs into SbS surely a PC gamer could figure it out.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it.
[/quote]
That's the wrong attitude. I'm sure if many, many people signed a petition, and Nvidia realized how many sales they are losing, they'd reconsider.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
[/quote]
I want to buy a plasma TV and I want the benefit of 2011 plasma TVs that have less crosstalk. 2010 Samsung plasmas have much more crosstalk than the 2011 samsung plasmas. 2011 samsung plasmas beat the 2011 panasonic plasmas in crosstalk tests. I won't even consider a LED tv for more than just crosstalk reasons (2d picture). I like DLP but as long as DLP can't do full 1080p24 for bluray I won't consider them either. Truly, Nvidia is holding me back from spending a lot of coin on a new plasma and gaming computer. I will simply wait years until a new 3DTV and 3D drivers hit the performance I want. Or I'll jump on a 2011 sammy plasma and a gaming computer with an AMD card and Tridef and IZ3d.
Nvidia, 720p framepacking is terrible! Please listen to us!
That won't help, AMD cards don't work with Nvidia software.
That's my point, if 3DTV Play is useless to me due to lack of SbS, I'll just get an AMD card and use Tridef or Iz3d. Why buy Nvidia if I can't benefit from their software, and they refuse to support the simple requests of their customers?
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
No, none of these is 'the reason'.
On Jan. 17, 2011 Andrew told us the reason why Nvidia rejected both CB and SBS mode in the "Nvidia, have you killed 3D Vision?" thread, there's no mystery. In case you missed it, 3DTV Play was mandated to not support any mode that requires user intervention. That eliminates all modes except Framepacking. In other words, Nvidia policy has always been "convenience over quality".
The only reason we have CB in 3D Vision today is because back in 2009, CB was the automatic 'no user intervention' mode. That all changed in 2010 when FP became the no user intervention mode, so we are forever stuck with crappy FP in 3DTV Play.
That's a ridiculous reason. PC gamers are used to intervention. Besides, framepacking mode could be still offered to those who want automatic convenience. Also in many ways SbS is the simplest to deal with. Old HDMI AVRs will support it. It's a simple frame compatible format that has few headaches to implement. Turn your TV to manual SbS and enjoy. This is all on top of the fact that SbS looks MUCH better than 720p fp.
The xbox 360 uses SbS to support 3D. If xbox gamers can handle putting their TVs into SbS surely a PC gamer could figure it out.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
Begging Nvidia for CB or SBS support is a fool's erand, you'll never get it.
That's the wrong attitude. I'm sure if many, many people signed a petition, and Nvidia realized how many sales they are losing, they'd reconsider.
[quote name='roller11' date='18 June 2011 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1308417462' post='1253479']
If you want native resolution 3D gaming with Nvidia's software, you'll need to obtain a CB supported HDTV such as the Samsung or LG models that have CB mode.
I want to buy a plasma TV and I want the benefit of 2011 plasma TVs that have less crosstalk. 2010 Samsung plasmas have much more crosstalk than the 2011 samsung plasmas. 2011 samsung plasmas beat the 2011 panasonic plasmas in crosstalk tests. I won't even consider a LED tv for more than just crosstalk reasons (2d picture). I like DLP but as long as DLP can't do full 1080p24 for bluray I won't consider them either. Truly, Nvidia is holding me back from spending a lot of coin on a new plasma and gaming computer. I will simply wait years until a new 3DTV and 3D drivers hit the performance I want. Or I'll jump on a 2011 sammy plasma and a gaming computer with an AMD card and Tridef and IZ3d.
Nvidia, 720p framepacking is terrible! Please listen to us!