Looks like another one of these happy accidents, game is beautiful on PC and from my brief testing, apart from a few screen depth HUD elements is pretty much perfect in 3dvision.
Kinda see a trend of these older ps3 ports comming out with a very good 3d experience quite often.
(3dvision Ready by my gauge not nvidias =) )
Be warned though, the online netcode is unchanged, and it's awful.
Looks like another one of these happy accidents, game is beautiful on PC and from my brief testing, apart from a few screen depth HUD elements is pretty much perfect in 3dvision.
Kinda see a trend of these older ps3 ports comming out with a very good 3d experience quite often.
(3dvision Ready by my gauge not nvidias =) )
Be warned though, the online netcode is unchanged, and it's awful.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
So Surround and SLI are OK?
If so, that will make some people happy :)
Sucks about the netcode, you'd think that they would have used Steam's solution and GoG Galaxy.
Could you name a fighting game with good netcode?
There is always a significant delay especially with ADSL.
Just like how slow TVs work.
There is a reason to have a monitor with < 1 frame input delay.
Yet another game I can't afford right now.
This opens up a kettle of worms flugan =). So here's my "educated" stance on the whole thing. So I keep posts to the minimum =P.
Fighting game netcode is really the last frontier when it comes to internet gaming.
The best you can ask of at this point is playable, and in my opinion at least there are very few examples of this.
and as you touched upon, you have to add this delay to the stuff you are already experiencing like the TV delay you mention (main reason why i refuse to use a Tv where this is mostly hidden specifications by the manufacturer and usually unimpressively high, to the educated eye). Wifi doesn't help either.....
Ping obviously is the dominating factor, and due to the nature of these games the p2p model is actually the only real option, as it's 1v1. A server would just add another hop for clients to have to go through reducing the experience for both players
Also consider that it's maybe the one genre where each player has to see the exact same thing on the screen at the same time. They also cannot add the tricks they do in shooters to hide this and in shooters you don't have the variety of offense and defensive options that in some cases must be executed in a ms window or by frame. (some characters in tekken have over 300 moves with different rules to boot)
Until recently most games have been using variable input delay network models, and this is why fighting games have been considered pretty much unplayable online bu anyone competitve or serious about the genre. This is because with variable input delay the timing of all your combos goes out the window, moves that where disadvantageous due to punishment become way more powerful because they can't be reacted too on time, for example.
So with this in mind the best games are always going to be the ones which utilize rollback netcode where each player sends commands to their own client in real time and a simulation decides how the clients synchronize and what happened. This means you never have online induced input delay but the game can rollback when the clients don't agree and creates teleportation like symptoms.
There is some debate about this, but the detractors really just don't understand this stuff and the consensus among professional players is clear. Slowly the industry is changing to use rollback netcode exclusively for fighters, so things are improving but there is no perfect solution at this time.
Mvc3 and many others uses Variable input delay making the online experience a completely different game than offline and in really bad cases like you are playing underwater. (your commands must be sent to the other client and back before it registers in game basically.)
So that's the rule of thumb I guess but then you have to consider the matchmaking system in general. I prefer games where you can search for an online opponent in training mode. SF5 and the newer tekken games do this.
Keep in mind the next issue is fighters are not a popular genre overall so your player base competition and matchmaking pool can be small. Also some of these picks are console only.
First, and honorable and dishonorable mention is for "For Honor." it uses a weird maybe experimental peer to peer system where every player connects to every other player and there is no real host. (one player handles the matchmaking handshakes)
Yes it has some major issues right now in terms of matchmaking, and rage quitters can cause the network to fail, which I think could be resolved by proper rage quit punishment.
But when the game works, netcode and response is as good as you can expect and personally I have had little issues with it, and I have never felt I have been cheated in a fight because of the netcode. I only notice I'm playing online when a ragequiter "Host" causes the game to fail or a pause when this occurs as the game renegotiates the connections. (rare for me.)
The internet cries out for dedicated servers for this game, I personally feel that will introduce other problems because it is at it's heart a fighting game and would probably not be playable for me in that environment as I live on the worlds ass, and we rarely get dedicated servers down here.
So that was long winded and a lot of people around here are likely aware around here, but as for games I consider "playable".
Killer Instinct. (ggpo netcode)
Mortal Kombat X (recently fixed a year after release, netcode is among the best now, small player base)
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (console)
Tekken Revolution (console, and about to be decommissioned)
Tekken 7 will likely have amazing netcode as the arcade version is at it's core online competitively.
Virtual fighter 5 (console, probably dead)
Skull girls (not a fan of this though)
Soul Calibur 5 (probably dead)
Apparently the upcoming Injustice 2 which uses the revamped Mkx netcode. (no PC announcement yet)
Anything on GGPO arcade or with GGPO netcode.
Streetfighter 5. (when it works properly it's flawless, there are bugs though, because it's "pretend" GGPO)
I think SF5's issues are due to problems with cross-play and PlayStation users generally having horrible wifi connections.
Basically Namco was the first major commercial FG company to really get a good netcode system going. (was awful prior to ScV).
That's all I can think of from the top of my mind and I play most fighters.
This opens up a kettle of worms flugan =). So here's my "educated" stance on the whole thing. So I keep posts to the minimum =P.
Fighting game netcode is really the last frontier when it comes to internet gaming.
The best you can ask of at this point is playable, and in my opinion at least there are very few examples of this.
and as you touched upon, you have to add this delay to the stuff you are already experiencing like the TV delay you mention (main reason why i refuse to use a Tv where this is mostly hidden specifications by the manufacturer and usually unimpressively high, to the educated eye). Wifi doesn't help either.....
Ping obviously is the dominating factor, and due to the nature of these games the p2p model is actually the only real option, as it's 1v1. A server would just add another hop for clients to have to go through reducing the experience for both players
Also consider that it's maybe the one genre where each player has to see the exact same thing on the screen at the same time. They also cannot add the tricks they do in shooters to hide this and in shooters you don't have the variety of offense and defensive options that in some cases must be executed in a ms window or by frame. (some characters in tekken have over 300 moves with different rules to boot)
Until recently most games have been using variable input delay network models, and this is why fighting games have been considered pretty much unplayable online bu anyone competitve or serious about the genre. This is because with variable input delay the timing of all your combos goes out the window, moves that where disadvantageous due to punishment become way more powerful because they can't be reacted too on time, for example.
So with this in mind the best games are always going to be the ones which utilize rollback netcode where each player sends commands to their own client in real time and a simulation decides how the clients synchronize and what happened. This means you never have online induced input delay but the game can rollback when the clients don't agree and creates teleportation like symptoms.
There is some debate about this, but the detractors really just don't understand this stuff and the consensus among professional players is clear. Slowly the industry is changing to use rollback netcode exclusively for fighters, so things are improving but there is no perfect solution at this time.
Mvc3 and many others uses Variable input delay making the online experience a completely different game than offline and in really bad cases like you are playing underwater. (your commands must be sent to the other client and back before it registers in game basically.)
So that's the rule of thumb I guess but then you have to consider the matchmaking system in general. I prefer games where you can search for an online opponent in training mode. SF5 and the newer tekken games do this.
Keep in mind the next issue is fighters are not a popular genre overall so your player base competition and matchmaking pool can be small. Also some of these picks are console only.
First, and honorable and dishonorable mention is for "For Honor." it uses a weird maybe experimental peer to peer system where every player connects to every other player and there is no real host. (one player handles the matchmaking handshakes)
Yes it has some major issues right now in terms of matchmaking, and rage quitters can cause the network to fail, which I think could be resolved by proper rage quit punishment.
But when the game works, netcode and response is as good as you can expect and personally I have had little issues with it, and I have never felt I have been cheated in a fight because of the netcode. I only notice I'm playing online when a ragequiter "Host" causes the game to fail or a pause when this occurs as the game renegotiates the connections. (rare for me.)
The internet cries out for dedicated servers for this game, I personally feel that will introduce other problems because it is at it's heart a fighting game and would probably not be playable for me in that environment as I live on the worlds ass, and we rarely get dedicated servers down here.
So that was long winded and a lot of people around here are likely aware around here, but as for games I consider "playable".
Killer Instinct. (ggpo netcode)
Mortal Kombat X (recently fixed a year after release, netcode is among the best now, small player base)
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (console)
Tekken Revolution (console, and about to be decommissioned)
Tekken 7 will likely have amazing netcode as the arcade version is at it's core online competitively.
Virtual fighter 5 (console, probably dead)
Skull girls (not a fan of this though)
Soul Calibur 5 (probably dead)
Apparently the upcoming Injustice 2 which uses the revamped Mkx netcode. (no PC announcement yet)
Anything on GGPO arcade or with GGPO netcode.
Streetfighter 5. (when it works properly it's flawless, there are bugs though, because it's "pretend" GGPO)
I think SF5's issues are due to problems with cross-play and PlayStation users generally having horrible wifi connections.
Basically Namco was the first major commercial FG company to really get a good netcode system going. (was awful prior to ScV).
That's all I can think of from the top of my mind and I play most fighters.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
[quote="D-Man11"]So Surround and SLI are OK?
If so, that will make some people happy :)
Sucks about the netcode, you'd think that they would have used Steam's solution and GoG Galaxy.[/quote]
It's from what I can see a straight port so the netcode wasn't changed and as I understand from developers mouths it usually has to be baked into the game while it's being designed. (although MkX has proven recently this is probably actually rarely the case)
There is no profile, so I am not sure about SLI, yet But it's probably not generally needed as this game is 4 years old and a console port with very stylised graphics/ It is a good port though despite and runs a very smooth 60fps for me in 3dvision at 1440p when i have a better change to play I'll test this.
I might try in surround later but I generally don't like fighters in surround as my eyes are always on my opponents character.
Sucks about the netcode, you'd think that they would have used Steam's solution and GoG Galaxy.
It's from what I can see a straight port so the netcode wasn't changed and as I understand from developers mouths it usually has to be baked into the game while it's being designed. (although MkX has proven recently this is probably actually rarely the case)
There is no profile, so I am not sure about SLI, yet But it's probably not generally needed as this game is 4 years old and a console port with very stylised graphics/ It is a good port though despite and runs a very smooth 60fps for me in 3dvision at 1440p when i have a better change to play I'll test this.
I might try in surround later but I generally don't like fighters in surround as my eyes are always on my opponents character.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
The game does not use SLI, but it does not have to. I have GTX1080 SLI and the game uses only one. But I'm playing 4k, 60fps and the GPU usage is ranging from 20 to 25%. The game is running smoothly. I believe that with less powerful cards, the game will perform very well in 1080p, since even in 4k is having a lot of performance in 1080.
Sorry my English is a piece of crap. I'm Brazilian and I'm using Google Translate! XD
The game does not use SLI, but it does not have to. I have GTX1080 SLI and the game uses only one. But I'm playing 4k, 60fps and the GPU usage is ranging from 20 to 25%. The game is running smoothly. I believe that with less powerful cards, the game will perform very well in 1080p, since even in 4k is having a lot of performance in 1080.
Sorry my English is a piece of crap. I'm Brazilian and I'm using Google Translate! XD
Hi DouglasBroca and welcome to the forum.
Google translate works well enough.
@necropants:
Nice writeup.
Wonder if any fighting game netcode can make 100-150 ping work.
That would be mostly for fun and not dead serious.
I have had playable matches in that range if the netcode is GGPO style. You will experience some noticeable rollback or teleporting issues though. Not enjoyable to Unplayable with variable input delay systems..
I have high hopes for Tekken 7 in June, as its a true 3d game with lovely graphics and I never even realized they used rollback netcode in TTT2 recently as I never experienced one rollback.
Just hopefully it gets support by the pc community as it's just confirmed to not be supporting crossplay because of stupid console policies.
I have had playable matches in that range if the netcode is GGPO style. You will experience some noticeable rollback or teleporting issues though. Not enjoyable to Unplayable with variable input delay systems..
I have high hopes for Tekken 7 in June, as its a true 3d game with lovely graphics and I never even realized they used rollback netcode in TTT2 recently as I never experienced one rollback.
Just hopefully it gets support by the pc community as it's just confirmed to not be supporting crossplay because of stupid console policies.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
A lot of these fighting games are playable even if you don't have the game itself. As long as a friend has it, they can Gamestream coop the game by emailing you their activation link, and then you can start playing with them as the opponent.
Believe it or not, the lag input is better than some of these games netcode. It varies based on your distance and hops to the host.
I've done this using various fighting games and it works very well.
When you host the game to their screen, it will be 2D on their side, 3D on your side.
For more details
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-experience-early-access-share-beta-coming-soon
A lot of these fighting games are playable even if you don't have the game itself. As long as a friend has it, they can Gamestream coop the game by emailing you their activation link, and then you can start playing with them as the opponent.
Believe it or not, the lag input is better than some of these games netcode. It varies based on your distance and hops to the host.
I've done this using various fighting games and it works very well.
When you host the game to their screen, it will be 2D on their side, 3D on your side.
In that case it all depends on location to your opponent. Yes it can feel better if you are close. I think VF5 didn't use a VID model for example, just was really good.
There is no input delay in GGPO style netcode though, at all.. it's pro's and con's but in general rollback style is the better option.
In that case it all depends on location to your opponent. Yes it can feel better if you are close. I think VF5 didn't use a VID model for example, just was really good.
There is no input delay in GGPO style netcode though, at all.. it's pro's and con's but in general rollback style is the better option.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
Kinda see a trend of these older ps3 ports comming out with a very good 3d experience quite often.
(3dvision Ready by my gauge not nvidias =) )
Be warned though, the online netcode is unchanged, and it's awful.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
If so, that will make some people happy :)
Sucks about the netcode, you'd think that they would have used Steam's solution and GoG Galaxy.
There is always a significant delay especially with ADSL.
Just like how slow TVs work.
There is a reason to have a monitor with < 1 frame input delay.
Yet another game I can't afford right now.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com
Fighting game netcode is really the last frontier when it comes to internet gaming.
The best you can ask of at this point is playable, and in my opinion at least there are very few examples of this.
and as you touched upon, you have to add this delay to the stuff you are already experiencing like the TV delay you mention (main reason why i refuse to use a Tv where this is mostly hidden specifications by the manufacturer and usually unimpressively high, to the educated eye). Wifi doesn't help either.....
Ping obviously is the dominating factor, and due to the nature of these games the p2p model is actually the only real option, as it's 1v1. A server would just add another hop for clients to have to go through reducing the experience for both players
Also consider that it's maybe the one genre where each player has to see the exact same thing on the screen at the same time. They also cannot add the tricks they do in shooters to hide this and in shooters you don't have the variety of offense and defensive options that in some cases must be executed in a ms window or by frame. (some characters in tekken have over 300 moves with different rules to boot)
Until recently most games have been using variable input delay network models, and this is why fighting games have been considered pretty much unplayable online bu anyone competitve or serious about the genre. This is because with variable input delay the timing of all your combos goes out the window, moves that where disadvantageous due to punishment become way more powerful because they can't be reacted too on time, for example.
So with this in mind the best games are always going to be the ones which utilize rollback netcode where each player sends commands to their own client in real time and a simulation decides how the clients synchronize and what happened. This means you never have online induced input delay but the game can rollback when the clients don't agree and creates teleportation like symptoms.
There is some debate about this, but the detractors really just don't understand this stuff and the consensus among professional players is clear. Slowly the industry is changing to use rollback netcode exclusively for fighters, so things are improving but there is no perfect solution at this time.
Mvc3 and many others uses Variable input delay making the online experience a completely different game than offline and in really bad cases like you are playing underwater. (your commands must be sent to the other client and back before it registers in game basically.)
So that's the rule of thumb I guess but then you have to consider the matchmaking system in general. I prefer games where you can search for an online opponent in training mode. SF5 and the newer tekken games do this.
Keep in mind the next issue is fighters are not a popular genre overall so your player base competition and matchmaking pool can be small. Also some of these picks are console only.
First, and honorable and dishonorable mention is for "For Honor." it uses a weird maybe experimental peer to peer system where every player connects to every other player and there is no real host. (one player handles the matchmaking handshakes)
Yes it has some major issues right now in terms of matchmaking, and rage quitters can cause the network to fail, which I think could be resolved by proper rage quit punishment.
But when the game works, netcode and response is as good as you can expect and personally I have had little issues with it, and I have never felt I have been cheated in a fight because of the netcode. I only notice I'm playing online when a ragequiter "Host" causes the game to fail or a pause when this occurs as the game renegotiates the connections. (rare for me.)
The internet cries out for dedicated servers for this game, I personally feel that will introduce other problems because it is at it's heart a fighting game and would probably not be playable for me in that environment as I live on the worlds ass, and we rarely get dedicated servers down here.
So that was long winded and a lot of people around here are likely aware around here, but as for games I consider "playable".
Killer Instinct. (ggpo netcode)
Mortal Kombat X (recently fixed a year after release, netcode is among the best now, small player base)
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (console)
Tekken Revolution (console, and about to be decommissioned)
Tekken 7 will likely have amazing netcode as the arcade version is at it's core online competitively.
Virtual fighter 5 (console, probably dead)
Skull girls (not a fan of this though)
Soul Calibur 5 (probably dead)
Apparently the upcoming Injustice 2 which uses the revamped Mkx netcode. (no PC announcement yet)
Anything on GGPO arcade or with GGPO netcode.
Streetfighter 5. (when it works properly it's flawless, there are bugs though, because it's "pretend" GGPO)
I think SF5's issues are due to problems with cross-play and PlayStation users generally having horrible wifi connections.
Basically Namco was the first major commercial FG company to really get a good netcode system going. (was awful prior to ScV).
That's all I can think of from the top of my mind and I play most fighters.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
It's from what I can see a straight port so the netcode wasn't changed and as I understand from developers mouths it usually has to be baked into the game while it's being designed. (although MkX has proven recently this is probably actually rarely the case)
There is no profile, so I am not sure about SLI, yet But it's probably not generally needed as this game is 4 years old and a console port with very stylised graphics/ It is a good port though despite and runs a very smooth 60fps for me in 3dvision at 1440p when i have a better change to play I'll test this.
I might try in surround later but I generally don't like fighters in surround as my eyes are always on my opponents character.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
Sorry my English is a piece of crap. I'm Brazilian and I'm using Google Translate! XD
Google translate works well enough.
@necropants:
Nice writeup.
Wonder if any fighting game netcode can make 100-150 ping work.
That would be mostly for fun and not dead serious.
Thanks to everybody using my assembler it warms my heart.
To have a critical piece of code that everyone can enjoy!
What more can you ask for?
donations: ulfjalmbrant@hotmail.com
I have high hopes for Tekken 7 in June, as its a true 3d game with lovely graphics and I never even realized they used rollback netcode in TTT2 recently as I never experienced one rollback.
Just hopefully it gets support by the pc community as it's just confirmed to not be supporting crossplay because of stupid console policies.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)
Believe it or not, the lag input is better than some of these games netcode. It varies based on your distance and hops to the host.
I've done this using various fighting games and it works very well.
When you host the game to their screen, it will be 2D on their side, 3D on your side.
For more details
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-experience-early-access-share-beta-coming-soon
3D Vision/TRIDEF User
SHIELD portable/tablet/tv
There is no input delay in GGPO style netcode though, at all.. it's pro's and con's but in general rollback style is the better option.
i7-4790K CPU 4.8Ghz stable overclock.
16 GB RAM Corsair
EVGA 1080TI SLI
Samsung SSD 840Pro
ASUS Z97-WS
3D Surround ASUS Rog Swift PG278Q(R), 2x PG278Q (yes it works)
Obutto R3volution.
Windows 10 pro 64x (Windows 7 Dual boot)