Is 3dVision dying?
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So with the difficulties in fixing DX10/11 games, is this going to be a serious hurdle for the future of 3d vision? I've only had my 3d monitor a short time, but almost every game I've played has needed some degree of fixing (thanks Helix+co!). Given DX9 is dying, could it take down 3dvision with it? Assuming nvidia doesn't step up to the plate and start fixing things themselves, that is. I suppose the Oculus has potential for enhancing general 3d compatibility too, but only if it gains widespread adoption.
So with the difficulties in fixing DX10/11 games, is this going to be a serious hurdle for the future of 3d vision? I've only had my 3d monitor a short time, but almost every game I've played has needed some degree of fixing (thanks Helix+co!). Given DX9 is dying, could it take down 3dvision with it? Assuming nvidia doesn't step up to the plate and start fixing things themselves, that is.

I suppose the Oculus has potential for enhancing general 3d compatibility too, but only if it gains widespread adoption.

#1
Posted 03/25/2013 05:39 AM   
sadly I wouldn't be surprised to see 3d vision being moved to legacy status by next year. it's a real shame as there is a solid groundwork on the hardware side that someone else, ideally competent, could build up on and properly care for and support, but it's locked within nvidia GPUs, so that would be pointless. in the end it's down to us being less than 5% of the pc gaming user base, and the rabid anti-3d campaign that many forum dwelling and media editorial bottom feeders are on.
sadly I wouldn't be surprised to see 3d vision being moved to legacy status by next year. it's a real shame as there is a solid groundwork on the hardware side that someone else, ideally competent, could build up on and properly care for and support, but it's locked within nvidia GPUs, so that would be pointless.

in the end it's down to us being less than 5% of the pc gaming user base, and the rabid anti-3d campaign that many forum dwelling and media editorial bottom feeders are on.

#2
Posted 03/25/2013 07:55 AM   
I really hope not, I'd hate to have my $640 monitor + $230 second graphics card investment become unsupported. But with the movement towards DX11, and the apparent disregard for fixing 3d-related issues...it's looking possible. Hopefully the Oculus gets enough uptake for devs to make sure their 3d is up to scratch.
I really hope not, I'd hate to have my $640 monitor + $230 second graphics card investment become unsupported. But with the movement towards DX11, and the apparent disregard for fixing 3d-related issues...it's looking possible. Hopefully the Oculus gets enough uptake for devs to make sure their 3d is up to scratch.

#3
Posted 03/25/2013 08:06 AM   
Good question! I'd like to know that to and i would like nVidia to answer! 3D gaming will become more popular when 120Hz monitors will become the new standard. They need to drop in price so consumers only need to buy the glasses when they feel like investing in something new. I had a party this weekend and it was mostly non gamers. I showed 3D for them and they were amazed. If only people got to try out 3D it would grow in popularity. The stores should have demos and good games, games like Tomb Raider standing 24/7 so every person gets to see what it's like. Hell i would do it for free in a mall just to see the reaction. Maybe we gamers need to take the action in our own hands, lets start a kickstarter nVidia 3D buss tour around the world and spread the experience! ;)
Good question! I'd like to know that to and i would like nVidia to answer!

3D gaming will become more popular when 120Hz monitors will become the new standard. They need to drop in price so consumers only need to buy the glasses when they feel like investing in something new. I had a party this weekend and it was mostly non gamers. I showed 3D for them and they were amazed. If only people got to try out 3D it would grow in popularity. The stores should have demos and good games, games like Tomb Raider standing 24/7 so every person gets to see what it's like. Hell i would do it for free in a mall just to see the reaction.
Maybe we gamers need to take the action in our own hands, lets start a kickstarter nVidia 3D buss tour around the world and spread the experience! ;)

Be nice or i'll add a poll asking stupid retarded questions!

#4
Posted 03/25/2013 08:06 AM   
I admire your enthusiasm, but I'm not paying for nVidia's marketing campaign. :)
I admire your enthusiasm, but I'm not paying for nVidia's marketing campaign. :)

#5
Posted 03/25/2013 08:12 AM   
3D Vision isn't "dying," it's already in Zombie mode...the dead body still moves because of PC gaming community (starring Helix) and few developers out there who bother to make 3D vision compatible games (or the game engine just happen to be 3d vision friendly). I don't see Nvidia put any effort to push 3D vision to higher popularity. adding to the injury is AMD's recent aggressive campaign...big contrast to Nvidia's barely doing anything to promote its own tech!
3D Vision isn't "dying," it's already in Zombie mode...the dead body still moves because of PC gaming community (starring Helix) and few developers out there who bother to make 3D vision compatible games (or the game engine just happen to be 3d vision friendly). I don't see Nvidia put any effort to push 3D vision to higher popularity.

adding to the injury is AMD's recent aggressive campaign...big contrast to Nvidia's barely doing anything to promote its own tech!

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#6
Posted 03/25/2013 09:20 AM   
First thing Nvidia should do to popularize 3D Vision is to add a special chip to the videocards in order to render exactly the same frames per second in games in 2D and 3D..., ie, not to have to invest more money to play 3D. Maybe a special 3D chip added for free to the videocard or something. A lot of people do not play in 3D just because they prefer to play smooth rather than in 3D. If your rig doesn't let you to play with everything maxed, you won't even think about 3D.
First thing Nvidia should do to popularize 3D Vision is to add a special chip to the videocards in order to render exactly the same frames per second in games in 2D and 3D..., ie, not to have to invest more money to play 3D. Maybe a special 3D chip added for free to the videocard or something. A lot of people do not play in 3D just because they prefer to play smooth rather than in 3D. If your rig doesn't let you to play with everything maxed, you won't even think about 3D.

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#7
Posted 03/25/2013 10:26 AM   
I don't think that 3d vision is dying completely, but probably it's going backwards, I mean, many new games won't work but thanks to Helix I think that every year we'll get many old games working in 3d like Bioshock, Last Remnant or Kingdom of Amalur recently, something that's perfectly fine for me. Also the side effects of Oculus Rift on 3d vision if it's succesful are yet to be seen. But in terms of Nvidia support, it's dead and buried. Nvidia right now is too busy desperately trying to win the mobile market and imho they are going nowhere since game support for Tegra is lacklustre, and Project Shield... that's like watching the Titanic head happily to a huge iceberg...
I don't think that 3d vision is dying completely, but probably it's going backwards, I mean, many new games won't work but thanks to Helix I think that every year we'll get many old games working in 3d like Bioshock, Last Remnant or Kingdom of Amalur recently, something that's perfectly fine for me. Also the side effects of Oculus Rift on 3d vision if it's succesful are yet to be seen. But in terms of Nvidia support, it's dead and buried.

Nvidia right now is too busy desperately trying to win the mobile market and imho they are going nowhere since game support for Tegra is lacklustre, and Project Shield... that's like watching the Titanic head happily to a huge iceberg...

All hail 3d modders DHR, MasterOtaku, Losti, Necropants, Helifax, bo3b, mike_ar69, Flugan, DarkStarSword, 4everAwake, 3d4dd and so many more helping to keep the 3d dream alive, find their 3d fixes at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/ Also check my site for spanish VR and mobile gaming news: www.gamermovil.com

#8
Posted 03/25/2013 10:32 AM   
Perhaps this is just me defending my recent purchase, but it seems to me like most recent games still work, with a little screwing around. Tomb Raider is amazing, and as for other things I've been playing lately: Brutal Legend: Works (with Helix) Crysis 3: Works (but "fake" 3d) Left 4 Dead 2: Works (issues with water, otherwise good) Sonic Racing Transformed: Works (with Helix to remove shadows) TF2: Works Dishonored: Works with Helix XCom: Works with Helix Seems like things are okay at the moment (though there's some fiddling to patch a lot of games). It's the future I'm worried about. AC3 was a disappointment, and it looks like Bioshock Infinite may be as well.
Perhaps this is just me defending my recent purchase, but it seems to me like most recent games still work, with a little screwing around. Tomb Raider is amazing, and as for other things I've been playing lately:

Brutal Legend: Works (with Helix)
Crysis 3: Works (but "fake" 3d)
Left 4 Dead 2: Works (issues with water, otherwise good)
Sonic Racing Transformed: Works (with Helix to remove shadows)
TF2: Works
Dishonored: Works with Helix
XCom: Works with Helix

Seems like things are okay at the moment (though there's some fiddling to patch a lot of games). It's the future I'm worried about. AC3 was a disappointment, and it looks like Bioshock Infinite may be as well.

#9
Posted 03/25/2013 10:50 AM   
[quote="teardropmina"]3D Vision isn't "dying," it's already in Zombie mode...[/quote] Pretty much sums it up BUT that's not saying stereoscopic 3D is dead or dying, if anything I think it's in it's infancy stages at best. With Windows 8 and DX 11.1 natively supporting S3D there should be less need for '3D Vision, HD3D, and TriDef', all pulling in different directions and things like that have only been hurting S3D support in the long run. With S3D being handled at the OS & core driver level, there's less worries at the developmental level about segregating S3D support to only one camp. Which is most likely why many of them have tried to implement it in their games instead. I only wish I knew about the Win8/DX11.1/S3D when they were promoting Win8 with the $40 upgrades, now it's up to $120.
teardropmina said:3D Vision isn't "dying," it's already in Zombie mode...


Pretty much sums it up BUT that's not saying stereoscopic 3D is dead or dying, if anything I think it's in it's infancy stages at best. With Windows 8 and DX 11.1 natively supporting S3D there should be less need for '3D Vision, HD3D, and TriDef', all pulling in different directions and things like that have only been hurting S3D support in the long run.

With S3D being handled at the OS & core driver level, there's less worries at the developmental level about segregating S3D support to only one camp. Which is most likely why many of them have tried to implement it in their games instead. I only wish I knew about the Win8/DX11.1/S3D when they were promoting Win8 with the $40 upgrades, now it's up to $120.
#10
Posted 03/25/2013 12:23 PM   
Wait, what? Is there a link I can go to to read more about this native support, or do you have more info on that? Am I misreading that, or are you saying that with DX 11.1 we won't need special drivers for S3D?
Wait, what? Is there a link I can go to to read more about this native support, or do you have more info on that?

Am I misreading that, or are you saying that with DX 11.1 we won't need special drivers for S3D?

#11
Posted 03/25/2013 12:36 PM   
I don't think 3D Vision is dying, but it's far from thriving. At this point, we've basically traded off Nvidia 3D Vision Ready support for much better HeliX mod support, so if anything we've received an upgrade in terms of overall 3D Vision experience thanks to the amazing efforts of HeliX and others. I do think there is some reason for concern if/when games go DX10/11-exclusive. Luckily there are only a few games to do this so far (AC3, JC2), but once more decide to go this route we will enter something of a deadzone where we will have to rely on Developers to implement 3D natively. For DX11, we have seen everything from excellent 3D to terrible 3D, so unfortunately it really puts the control in the Devs hands completely. In the end I think 3D support and uptake will wholly depend on what the next-gen consoles do with 3D and ofc how hard the TV makers continue to push 3D. I don't think Nvidia has much control or interest anymore in steering 3D at this point, they have many more projects that I can tell they are allocating resources over 3D Vision. 3D Vision doesn't even get a bulletpoint anymore in their slides and presentations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Andrew has been pulled to work on something else (liek Project SHIELD). Just my opinion of course. Anyways, enjoy it while it lasts, I could definitely see a nuclear winter for 3D on the horizon once games start going DX11 exclusive and Devs aren't fully implementing native 3D quite yet.
I don't think 3D Vision is dying, but it's far from thriving. At this point, we've basically traded off Nvidia 3D Vision Ready support for much better HeliX mod support, so if anything we've received an upgrade in terms of overall 3D Vision experience thanks to the amazing efforts of HeliX and others.

I do think there is some reason for concern if/when games go DX10/11-exclusive. Luckily there are only a few games to do this so far (AC3, JC2), but once more decide to go this route we will enter something of a deadzone where we will have to rely on Developers to implement 3D natively. For DX11, we have seen everything from excellent 3D to terrible 3D, so unfortunately it really puts the control in the Devs hands completely.

In the end I think 3D support and uptake will wholly depend on what the next-gen consoles do with 3D and ofc how hard the TV makers continue to push 3D. I don't think Nvidia has much control or interest anymore in steering 3D at this point, they have many more projects that I can tell they are allocating resources over 3D Vision. 3D Vision doesn't even get a bulletpoint anymore in their slides and presentations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Andrew has been pulled to work on something else (liek Project SHIELD). Just my opinion of course.

Anyways, enjoy it while it lasts, I could definitely see a nuclear winter for 3D on the horizon once games start going DX11 exclusive and Devs aren't fully implementing native 3D quite yet.

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#12
Posted 03/25/2013 12:49 PM   
But if that were to be the case, the move to 11.1 would signify an end to that, correct?
But if that were to be the case, the move to 11.1 would signify an end to that, correct?

#13
Posted 03/25/2013 01:01 PM   
I said the same thing about a month ago, when the new playstation and xbox hit, you're gonna see a massive drop in the amount of games that are dx9. everyone who has a vested interest in seeing ppl upgrade away from dx9 to keep gaming (MS, Nvidia, AMD) will all push devs to stop using the 'inefficient DX9 techniques' and move totally to DX10 at least.
I said the same thing about a month ago, when the new playstation and xbox hit, you're gonna see a massive drop in the amount of games that are dx9. everyone who has a vested interest in seeing ppl upgrade away from dx9 to keep gaming (MS, Nvidia, AMD) will all push devs to stop using the 'inefficient DX9 techniques' and move totally to DX10 at least.

#14
Posted 03/25/2013 01:27 PM   
Personally, I like to blame it on the 10% of the population that ether gets sic while trying to watch 3D or are unable to view it at all. However the problem is larger than them, if the effect is adjusted so that folks sitting in the back row of a theater enjoy it the people sitting in the front row get over whelmed. (and the other way around) Content creators and theaters have dialed down the effect to such barely noticeable levels that even the rare feature that was actually SHOT in 3D looks like good 2D or cheezy fake 3D at best. Most features can be seen in 3D or 2D at the same multiplex, when there is no "wow effect" or when there is little or no visual difference between the two most come away with "3D is over rated", "waste", "useless", "marketing hype to get more $$" and so on. If there's no impressive 3D to watch why bother paying $100-200 extra for the feature on your TV? However we all know that when used on a smaller screen where the user controls the screen<=>eyes distance and can adjust the effect to their own personal taste 3D can not only provide seemingly endless "wow" effect(s) but look stunning compared to a 2D presentation of the same content. While I personally think that if "Best Buy" and others had a video loop of a few good looking 3D games playing on an in store display 3D sets would 'fly' off their shelves the issue most gamers have with 3D is the performance cost to drive 3D. The question becomes a matter of cost/performance. The 'Frames per second' junkies can't stand anything that detracts from their bajillion FPS - even if the title they are playing can be enjoyed equally well at 15FPS as 120FPS. Will DX11.1 help or hinder our 3D cause? Its to early to tell. While DX11 breaks the current 'Helix mod' technique's for fixing games that is not to say that in the future other techniques will (or won't) be developed to do the same thing with DX11 or if developers actually make use of DX11.1 features and make their games "3D ready" out of the box. There are quite a few 3DTV's out in the "wild" and still many on store shelves to be sold. While Sony has a 'not a focus' attitude with their PS4 we've yet to hear Microsoft chime in on if the new Xbox will do 3D or not.
Personally, I like to blame it on the 10% of the population that ether gets sic while trying to watch 3D or are unable to view it at all. However the problem is larger than them, if the effect is adjusted so that folks sitting in the back row of a theater enjoy it the people sitting in the front row get over whelmed. (and the other way around)

Content creators and theaters have dialed down the effect to such barely noticeable levels that even the rare feature that was actually SHOT in 3D looks like good 2D or cheezy fake 3D at best.

Most features can be seen in 3D or 2D at the same multiplex, when there is no "wow effect" or when there is little or no visual difference between the two most come away with "3D is over rated", "waste", "useless", "marketing hype to get more $$" and so on. If there's no impressive 3D to watch why bother paying $100-200 extra for the feature on your TV?

However we all know that when used on a smaller screen where the user controls the screen<=>eyes distance and can adjust the effect to their own personal taste 3D can not only provide seemingly endless "wow" effect(s) but look stunning compared to a 2D presentation of the same content.

While I personally think that if "Best Buy" and others had a video loop of a few good looking 3D games playing on an in store display 3D sets would 'fly' off their shelves the issue most gamers have with 3D is the performance cost to drive 3D. The question becomes a matter of cost/performance. The 'Frames per second' junkies can't stand anything that detracts from their bajillion FPS - even if the title they are playing can be enjoyed equally well at 15FPS as 120FPS.

Will DX11.1 help or hinder our 3D cause? Its to early to tell. While DX11 breaks the current 'Helix mod' technique's for fixing games that is not to say that in the future other techniques will (or won't) be developed to do the same thing with DX11 or if developers actually make use of DX11.1 features and make their games "3D ready" out of the box.

There are quite a few 3DTV's out in the "wild" and still many on store shelves to be sold. While Sony has a 'not a focus' attitude with their PS4 we've yet to hear Microsoft chime in on if the new Xbox will do 3D or not.

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#15
Posted 03/25/2013 02:21 PM   
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