Dear Nvidia,
1st off, sorry to all users if this is posted in the wrong section. I was split between posting in this forum and the "forum feedback" sections... but chose this one because it seemed the most appropriate place to put this.
I would like to request opengl support under 3d vision. I know about support for professional apps - wich is NOT what I am looking for. I would like the ability to play my opengl games in 3d. As an avid simmer, much of my software catalogue is rendered under opengl instead of direct3d. While I could barrage them with requests to migrate to direct3d, it is more appropriate to ask for opengl support. Why? Well, I'm old enough to remember when you COULD support opengl. Remember Elsa Revelators? Prior to the Geforce 7xxx series, you could and did support opengl in 3d. When this product was released there were statements made by nvidia that opengl was forthcomming....
This was several years ago. I'm still waiting. I know I'm not alone. You do in fact support opengl rendering in 3d gaming with the latest *cough* release of Doom3.
Please please please please please add opengl support for 3d vision in an upcomming driver release. It is in fact for the reasons I outlined earlier, including your public statement that support would be forthcomming, that I make this request. This was loooooong before any nvidia personnell came into these forums and talked about opengl support under "professional" apps. Again, I am not a developer. Just an end user who is still waiting patiently for a workable solution to this issue.
With the soon to be released version of Steam for Linux comming soon, it only makes sense for you to add to your market share by making Nvidia THE 3d solution for gamers, as it utilizes opengl as it's primary rendering engine as well...
Please nvidia, I would love to get a comment from you on this particular issue. Likewise I would like to hear from others who feel the same way I do.
Thank you for taking the time to review my request and for your comments.
1st off, sorry to all users if this is posted in the wrong section. I was split between posting in this forum and the "forum feedback" sections... but chose this one because it seemed the most appropriate place to put this.
I would like to request opengl support under 3d vision. I know about support for professional apps - wich is NOT what I am looking for. I would like the ability to play my opengl games in 3d. As an avid simmer, much of my software catalogue is rendered under opengl instead of direct3d. While I could barrage them with requests to migrate to direct3d, it is more appropriate to ask for opengl support. Why? Well, I'm old enough to remember when you COULD support opengl. Remember Elsa Revelators? Prior to the Geforce 7xxx series, you could and did support opengl in 3d. When this product was released there were statements made by nvidia that opengl was forthcomming....
This was several years ago. I'm still waiting. I know I'm not alone. You do in fact support opengl rendering in 3d gaming with the latest *cough* release of Doom3.
Please please please please please add opengl support for 3d vision in an upcomming driver release. It is in fact for the reasons I outlined earlier, including your public statement that support would be forthcomming, that I make this request. This was loooooong before any nvidia personnell came into these forums and talked about opengl support under "professional" apps. Again, I am not a developer. Just an end user who is still waiting patiently for a workable solution to this issue.
With the soon to be released version of Steam for Linux comming soon, it only makes sense for you to add to your market share by making Nvidia THE 3d solution for gamers, as it utilizes opengl as it's primary rendering engine as well...
Please nvidia, I would love to get a comment from you on this particular issue. Likewise I would like to hear from others who feel the same way I do.
Thank you for taking the time to review my request and for your comments.
It's too bad we cannot get some of our classic titles that use OpenGL to work in 3D Vision. If they can release a driver update that supports this, that would be great!
It's too bad we cannot get some of our classic titles that use OpenGL to work in 3D Vision. If they can release a driver update that supports this, that would be great!
How about a poll that is a bit more realistic?
1. Make 3D Vision compatible with OpenGL but only support half as many 3D game profiles until the coding is done. (I don't know how long that would take but I'm sure it would be measured in something larger than weeks.)
2. Continue without OpenGL support but normal support for upcoming DirectX games.
That's a poll where you aren't just asking for free development work to fall out of the sky. A tricky choice, too, I'm not real sure which one I would vote for.
1. Make 3D Vision compatible with OpenGL but only support half as many 3D game profiles until the coding is done. (I don't know how long that would take but I'm sure it would be measured in something larger than weeks.)
2. Continue without OpenGL support but normal support for upcoming DirectX games.
That's a poll where you aren't just asking for free development work to fall out of the sky. A tricky choice, too, I'm not real sure which one I would vote for.
The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
I voted yes but I'd still prefer to have better support and features for current and future DirectX titles. OpenGL as a shipping runtime is no longer relevant on the PC so this would be a mostly backward-looking feature.
I voted yes but I'd still prefer to have better support and features for current and future DirectX titles. OpenGL as a shipping runtime is no longer relevant on the PC so this would be a mostly backward-looking feature.
DirectX in Windows is becoming a dead-end for the same reasons that PC gaming in Windows is becoming a dead-end, namely that Windows 8 is an utter fail. Unless nVidia rethink their short-term greed strategy and embrace OpenGL, they are throwing away not only the Android and Apple markets in the future, but also both the Windows OpenGL AND the new Steam-based Linux market today. Add this to 1 million Second Life users on all platforms and the amount they screw out of Quadro users might not seem so much!
DirectX in Windows is becoming a dead-end for the same reasons that PC gaming in Windows is becoming a dead-end, namely that Windows 8 is an utter fail. Unless nVidia rethink their short-term greed strategy and embrace OpenGL, they are throwing away not only the Android and Apple markets in the future, but also both the Windows OpenGL AND the new Steam-based Linux market today. Add this to 1 million Second Life users on all platforms and the amount they screw out of Quadro users might not seem so much!
Oh, OGL up the list again..... we need to count all the times this has been went over and over again. As much as I am an advocate for OGL my latest researches do not let me think it's going to happen, and here is why:
The old generic Metabyte drivers had [i]generic[/i] OGL support, meaning any OGL application was dealt with the same as Direct X (and/or Glide at that time). No need for anything else, just OGL acdelleration. The 3Dvision Pro drivers [i]only[/i] support S3D if the application renders to quad buffer - and here lies the culprit: Native Quad Buffer is limited to Quadro cards, which is no big deal for games (as long as we talk 2D) as quad buffer is not needed here. So nvidia could reenable this feature. However, since OGL has been ported from IIRC v2 when it was dropped to v4 this would mean at least some labour and with a sound perspective of how much efforts nvidia has put into active development of the driver itself it seems unlikely to ever happen.
This brings us to OGL s§D as it is available right now:
Quad buffered S3D. Now, quad buffer is a key feature for the Pro cards and nvidia has good reason to limit it to those or they could can the Quadro range which is a major revenue for their RnD department. if they would open up quad buffered S3D on [i]all[/i] their gfx bchips this would mean 2 things:
Game developpers would have to implement quad buffering to their games if they want it to work in 3D. Carmack has done that by adding it to the re-release of DoomIII BfG edition and there are other games lke the marvellous D2X-XL OGL port of Descent 1-2 that runs beautifully in 3D with 3D vision - on quadro cards.
And herein lies the problem: quad buffered OGL limitation is not a limitation of the 3DVision driver - in fact it can easily be enabled by adding a single registry key - it is a limitation of the GeForce vs Quadro driver which is also why OGL-2-DirectX wrappers won't successfully enable 3Dvision. This means if nvidia would enable global 3D support for OGL they would need to add quad buffered support for their consumer cards rendering the existence of their Quadro line void. It's clear to see why this won't happen.
Still as DoomIII BFG has shown: it can be done by whitelisting [i]games[/i] that offer rendering to quad buffers, so all nvidia wouldneed to communicate is a programme where users and developers can suggest [i]games[/i] that support this feature to be whitelisted and run in S3D. Still, this won't bring S3D to older titles unless someone adds rendering alternating perspectives to quad buffer.
BTW. I do not hink that either DirectX nor PC gaming on Windows is going to fade that soon and despite having been a fierce critic of Win8 myself I don't even think it's that epic fail that many deem it (not even half as much as I did myself). In fact with just a few tweaks it already acts like Win7 on desktops to the largest extent and I expect these tweaks to become substantial part of Service Pack 1 and which Windows reincarnation was ever worth it before the 1st service pack?
Oh, OGL up the list again..... we need to count all the times this has been went over and over again. As much as I am an advocate for OGL my latest researches do not let me think it's going to happen, and here is why:
The old generic Metabyte drivers had generic OGL support, meaning any OGL application was dealt with the same as Direct X (and/or Glide at that time). No need for anything else, just OGL acdelleration. The 3Dvision Pro drivers only support S3D if the application renders to quad buffer - and here lies the culprit: Native Quad Buffer is limited to Quadro cards, which is no big deal for games (as long as we talk 2D) as quad buffer is not needed here. So nvidia could reenable this feature. However, since OGL has been ported from IIRC v2 when it was dropped to v4 this would mean at least some labour and with a sound perspective of how much efforts nvidia has put into active development of the driver itself it seems unlikely to ever happen.
This brings us to OGL s§D as it is available right now:
Quad buffered S3D. Now, quad buffer is a key feature for the Pro cards and nvidia has good reason to limit it to those or they could can the Quadro range which is a major revenue for their RnD department. if they would open up quad buffered S3D on all their gfx bchips this would mean 2 things:
Game developpers would have to implement quad buffering to their games if they want it to work in 3D. Carmack has done that by adding it to the re-release of DoomIII BfG edition and there are other games lke the marvellous D2X-XL OGL port of Descent 1-2 that runs beautifully in 3D with 3D vision - on quadro cards.
And herein lies the problem: quad buffered OGL limitation is not a limitation of the 3DVision driver - in fact it can easily be enabled by adding a single registry key - it is a limitation of the GeForce vs Quadro driver which is also why OGL-2-DirectX wrappers won't successfully enable 3Dvision. This means if nvidia would enable global 3D support for OGL they would need to add quad buffered support for their consumer cards rendering the existence of their Quadro line void. It's clear to see why this won't happen.
Still as DoomIII BFG has shown: it can be done by whitelisting games that offer rendering to quad buffers, so all nvidia wouldneed to communicate is a programme where users and developers can suggest games that support this feature to be whitelisted and run in S3D. Still, this won't bring S3D to older titles unless someone adds rendering alternating perspectives to quad buffer.
BTW. I do not hink that either DirectX nor PC gaming on Windows is going to fade that soon and despite having been a fierce critic of Win8 myself I don't even think it's that epic fail that many deem it (not even half as much as I did myself). In fact with just a few tweaks it already acts like Win7 on desktops to the largest extent and I expect these tweaks to become substantial part of Service Pack 1 and which Windows reincarnation was ever worth it before the 1st service pack?
Wonderful stuff guys! Thanks so much for adding to the discussion. Obviously, I don't subscribe to the POV that windows or computer gaming in general is going anywhere. Regardless of your choice of OS (Windows, Linux/Android, or Mac/Apple) the fact that these forums exist(and others like them) are testament to that fact. A special thanks to quadropheniX for the explanation. I hear the pessimism expressed here by others as well. After all, if you could do it before, why stop?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that Nvidia would be best served by being as accessible an option as possible, and would be in a better position to be "in bed" as it were, with opengl as well as directx.
I'd never suggest that nvidia shoot itself in the foot by adding quad buffer opengl support to their regular card line as opposed to the professional line - but considering, as Likay said, that the work is already done....
Again - thanks for the relevant and on topic discussion. This is not my first trip on this bus, and isn't likely to be my last. I will probably continue to jump on any bandwagon that espouses opengl 3d support for the reasons I listed in my first post. I feel very strongly though that the more inaccessable you make 3d technology, the less likely it is to become popular. That is a consideration that should be on everyone's mind - IF they give a rat's ass about this tech that is.
Wonderful stuff guys! Thanks so much for adding to the discussion. Obviously, I don't subscribe to the POV that windows or computer gaming in general is going anywhere. Regardless of your choice of OS (Windows, Linux/Android, or Mac/Apple) the fact that these forums exist(and others like them) are testament to that fact. A special thanks to quadropheniX for the explanation. I hear the pessimism expressed here by others as well. After all, if you could do it before, why stop?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that Nvidia would be best served by being as accessible an option as possible, and would be in a better position to be "in bed" as it were, with opengl as well as directx.
I'd never suggest that nvidia shoot itself in the foot by adding quad buffer opengl support to their regular card line as opposed to the professional line - but considering, as Likay said, that the work is already done....
Again - thanks for the relevant and on topic discussion. This is not my first trip on this bus, and isn't likely to be my last. I will probably continue to jump on any bandwagon that espouses opengl 3d support for the reasons I listed in my first post. I feel very strongly though that the more inaccessable you make 3d technology, the less likely it is to become popular. That is a consideration that should be on everyone's mind - IF they give a rat's ass about this tech that is.
Any 3D solution is only half arse if it doesn't support OpenGL. NVidia knows this but doesn't care. Small young companies are all about the customer. Large old companies are all about next quarters earnings for the share holders. It is how the CEO and his cronies get bonuses and raises. This is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.
I voted yes, but begging will get us no where! LOL. Perhaps try buying another brand will...
Any 3D solution is only half arse if it doesn't support OpenGL. NVidia knows this but doesn't care. Small young companies are all about the customer. Large old companies are all about next quarters earnings for the share holders. It is how the CEO and his cronies get bonuses and raises. This is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.
I voted yes, but begging will get us no where! LOL. Perhaps try buying another brand will...
I am the customer. I am always right. And, I am always looking for something better!!!
I don't think you'll have much better luck with anyone else either. The only two 3D solutions that are all-purpose that I can think of include iz3D (which is also Direct3D only and is now defunct) and TriDef3D (which again is Direct3D only and doesn't even support 64bit applications yet). I was hoping 3D Vision would be the first to step forward into OpenGL territory but after reading quadrophoeniX's post, it sounds unlikely. Is there some technical limitation that is not just driver related?
I don't think you'll have much better luck with anyone else either. The only two 3D solutions that are all-purpose that I can think of include iz3D (which is also Direct3D only and is now defunct) and TriDef3D (which again is Direct3D only and doesn't even support 64bit applications yet). I was hoping 3D Vision would be the first to step forward into OpenGL territory but after reading quadrophoeniX's post, it sounds unlikely. Is there some technical limitation that is not just driver related?
1st off, sorry to all users if this is posted in the wrong section. I was split between posting in this forum and the "forum feedback" sections... but chose this one because it seemed the most appropriate place to put this.
I would like to request opengl support under 3d vision. I know about support for professional apps - wich is NOT what I am looking for. I would like the ability to play my opengl games in 3d. As an avid simmer, much of my software catalogue is rendered under opengl instead of direct3d. While I could barrage them with requests to migrate to direct3d, it is more appropriate to ask for opengl support. Why? Well, I'm old enough to remember when you COULD support opengl. Remember Elsa Revelators? Prior to the Geforce 7xxx series, you could and did support opengl in 3d. When this product was released there were statements made by nvidia that opengl was forthcomming....
This was several years ago. I'm still waiting. I know I'm not alone. You do in fact support opengl rendering in 3d gaming with the latest *cough* release of Doom3.
Please please please please please add opengl support for 3d vision in an upcomming driver release. It is in fact for the reasons I outlined earlier, including your public statement that support would be forthcomming, that I make this request. This was loooooong before any nvidia personnell came into these forums and talked about opengl support under "professional" apps. Again, I am not a developer. Just an end user who is still waiting patiently for a workable solution to this issue.
With the soon to be released version of Steam for Linux comming soon, it only makes sense for you to add to your market share by making Nvidia THE 3d solution for gamers, as it utilizes opengl as it's primary rendering engine as well...
Please nvidia, I would love to get a comment from you on this particular issue. Likewise I would like to hear from others who feel the same way I do.
Thank you for taking the time to review my request and for your comments.
1. Make 3D Vision compatible with OpenGL but only support half as many 3D game profiles until the coding is done. (I don't know how long that would take but I'm sure it would be measured in something larger than weeks.)
2. Continue without OpenGL support but normal support for upcoming DirectX games.
That's a poll where you aren't just asking for free development work to fall out of the sky. A tricky choice, too, I'm not real sure which one I would vote for.
The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
-- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"
Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Cpu: C2D E6600
Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX
3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D
Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.
-=HeliX=- Mod 3DV Game Fixes
My 3D Vision Games List Ratings
Intel Core i7 5930K @4.5GHz | Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 | Win10 x64 Pro | Corsair H105
Nvidia GeForce Titan X SLI Hybrid | ROG Swift PG278Q 144Hz + 3D Vision/G-Sync | 32GB Adata DDR4 2666
Intel Samsung 950Pro SSD | Samsung EVO 4x1 RAID 0 |
Yamaha VX-677 A/V Receiver | Polk Audio RM6880 7.1 | LG Blu-Ray
Auzen X-Fi HT HD | Logitech G710/G502/G27 | Corsair Air 540 | EVGA P2-1200W
The old generic Metabyte drivers had generic OGL support, meaning any OGL application was dealt with the same as Direct X (and/or Glide at that time). No need for anything else, just OGL acdelleration. The 3Dvision Pro drivers only support S3D if the application renders to quad buffer - and here lies the culprit: Native Quad Buffer is limited to Quadro cards, which is no big deal for games (as long as we talk 2D) as quad buffer is not needed here. So nvidia could reenable this feature. However, since OGL has been ported from IIRC v2 when it was dropped to v4 this would mean at least some labour and with a sound perspective of how much efforts nvidia has put into active development of the driver itself it seems unlikely to ever happen.
This brings us to OGL s§D as it is available right now:
Quad buffered S3D. Now, quad buffer is a key feature for the Pro cards and nvidia has good reason to limit it to those or they could can the Quadro range which is a major revenue for their RnD department. if they would open up quad buffered S3D on all their gfx bchips this would mean 2 things:
Game developpers would have to implement quad buffering to their games if they want it to work in 3D. Carmack has done that by adding it to the re-release of DoomIII BfG edition and there are other games lke the marvellous D2X-XL OGL port of Descent 1-2 that runs beautifully in 3D with 3D vision - on quadro cards.
And herein lies the problem: quad buffered OGL limitation is not a limitation of the 3DVision driver - in fact it can easily be enabled by adding a single registry key - it is a limitation of the GeForce vs Quadro driver which is also why OGL-2-DirectX wrappers won't successfully enable 3Dvision. This means if nvidia would enable global 3D support for OGL they would need to add quad buffered support for their consumer cards rendering the existence of their Quadro line void. It's clear to see why this won't happen.
Still as DoomIII BFG has shown: it can be done by whitelisting games that offer rendering to quad buffers, so all nvidia wouldneed to communicate is a programme where users and developers can suggest games that support this feature to be whitelisted and run in S3D. Still, this won't bring S3D to older titles unless someone adds rendering alternating perspectives to quad buffer.
BTW. I do not hink that either DirectX nor PC gaming on Windows is going to fade that soon and despite having been a fierce critic of Win8 myself I don't even think it's that epic fail that many deem it (not even half as much as I did myself). In fact with just a few tweaks it already acts like Win7 on desktops to the largest extent and I expect these tweaks to become substantial part of Service Pack 1 and which Windows reincarnation was ever worth it before the 1st service pack?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that Nvidia would be best served by being as accessible an option as possible, and would be in a better position to be "in bed" as it were, with opengl as well as directx.
I'd never suggest that nvidia shoot itself in the foot by adding quad buffer opengl support to their regular card line as opposed to the professional line - but considering, as Likay said, that the work is already done....
Again - thanks for the relevant and on topic discussion. This is not my first trip on this bus, and isn't likely to be my last. I will probably continue to jump on any bandwagon that espouses opengl 3d support for the reasons I listed in my first post. I feel very strongly though that the more inaccessable you make 3d technology, the less likely it is to become popular. That is a consideration that should be on everyone's mind - IF they give a rat's ass about this tech that is.
I voted yes, but begging will get us no where! LOL. Perhaps try buying another brand will...
I am the customer. I am always right. And, I am always looking for something better!!!