Methods for using 3D to get as-real a view as possible My suggestions and do you have any suggestion
[size="3"]I have been slowly getting to grips with what I have done to my computer. I wanted 3D, personally, to increase the realism - i.e it is as if the line of vision between you and the screen (and beyond) is an actual chunk out of the 3D world you are playing in.[/size]

[size="4"]1. [b]Get the depth right[/b]. [/size]

This means that objects that are "infinitely" far away will require your eyes to be parallel to eachother to see a single image. Some might need to unlock the depth to achieve this, though I found it fine for my 24 inch Acer, at about 3 feet, at 100% depth.

The way I test this is by
[list]

[*]pointing the game camera at something "infinitely" far away,
[*]then putting my face ON the screen, eyes practically touching it.
[*]Each eye should be above one of the 2 images of this distant object.
[*]Then I relax my eyes so I am completely "staring off into infinity", with eyes parallel.
[*]The 2 (blurry) images will be at a certain distance from each other like this, and I adjust the depth until they become one.
[/list]

The benefit of being so close to the screen is that its impossible to instinctively focus on the screen, or get tricked into making your eyes diverge. Now your brain can really be fooled that a distant mountain is really way off in the distance.

[size="4"]2. [b]Turn of FOV[/b] (unfortunately not always possible). [/size]

Yes, I know that is a very brave thing for me to say in an nvidia forum, where everyone is a passionate MAXIMUM FOV OR I WONT PLAY zealot, but in 3D, FOV ruins everything. Don't get me wrong, in my 2D days I was indeed one of those zealouts. It allowed added realism then, but [u]now all it does is ruin the proportions of things, and your ability to judge distance will be off[/u] (and even makes me feel a bit dizzy and sick).

I personally do my best in each game to turn FOV off completely, which often involves turning it DOWN, to about 36 degrees. You have to work out what is realistic based on your distance to the screen, but [u]if the objects start to stretch as they get closer to the side, your FOV is still in an unrealistic mode[/u]. You might be annoyed with the more limited visibility, but if your framerate is high and your mouse sensitive, your hand becomes your head and you can look wherever you want fast enough for you to not realize what you are not seeing. Anyway, get over it if you want ultimate realism!

[size="4"]3. [b]Get the convergence just right[/b] (unfortunately not always possible). [/size]

Each game will be different, but the method will always be roughly the same. You want it so that objects that are as far away from "you" (i.e. YOU, not your character in 3rd person games, but your character too in first person) in the game as the screen is from you should be a single image when you take off your glasses. Get it? Thus, anything that comes closer to "you" than the screen should start to pop out, realistically.

One way to achieve this is to stand really close to an NPC. Get close enough to his face that if it were real life, it would be about 2 feet away from you. Get the convergence right until it pops out and then hold out your hand and try to touch his face. Keep playing with the convergence until your hand "rests" on his face and is the right size relative to his face. Then you got the convergence perfect.

[u]Note[/u] that some first person games have your hands in front of you, but be careful to use these as a guide as they are often out of proportion to the rest of the game. In Metro 2033 for example, his hands are MASSIVE. When playing in 3D, put your hands next to an NPC and you will see they are as big as his head!

[size="4"]4. [b]Get the framerate good[/b]. [/size]

Having a low frame rate, worse than bad graphics, detracts from the realism. Anti-aliasing should be the first thing to go, then high shadow settings, then turning the resolution down a notch (it is less noticeable than you think at the distances you are likely to be from the screen).

[size="4"]5. [b]Get the room as dark and quiet as possible[/b]. [/size]

Other lights and sounds can really pull you out of the game subconsciously.

[size="4"]6. [b]Get surround sound if you can and turn it up[/b].[/size]

Do your best to play with the game settings so that environmental sounds are realistically loud, and turn down the guns etc. to compensate. If you cant do that, see if you have a volume equalization option on your graphics card to allow you this. The environment sounds are the most immersion-inducing of them all.

[size="4"]7. [b]Tell everyone you are busy and enjoy a night of losing yourself in another world![/b] [/size]

Don't feel ashamed to enjoy letting your imagination take over for a while, like a child, and pretend you are in a better/worse/scarier/funner world for a little while! Don't forget to take regular breaks and try to remember what is the real world.

[size="3"]Guys, when used for realism by those who prefer it, and used properly, this is actually very dangerous as it all will become so much more fun. Be careful, and make sure you don't sacrifice your real life for too much gaming. It has happened to the best of us, especially the ones who cried that they were above losing their life to games. If necessary, get hold of a game-blocking scheduler program and give someone else the password and give yourself a fair amount of time each night to play.

I understand that others may think that some of these steps are less necessary than others, but I don't think any would argue that each does maximise the realism of your games. I am looking forward to hearing any other suggestions for improved realism (of course multi-screening would be AWESOME, would love to do that!), or better ways of achieving the above results![/size]



Best games I have played in Ultra-realism mode: Just Cause 2 with the [url="http://www.justcause2mods.com/index.php/mods/other/Gameplay/JC2FPS---THE-JC2-First-Person-Mod/"]JC2FPS first person mod[/url] (made by myself actually!) and steam FOV setting to 0.85, and metro 2033 with FOV set to 35 in the cfg files. Looking to make Mafia II first person and figure out a way of reducing the FOV so that can be the next one I try. Any suggestions?


Thanks for reading,
Dr Kaii
I have been slowly getting to grips with what I have done to my computer. I wanted 3D, personally, to increase the realism - i.e it is as if the line of vision between you and the screen (and beyond) is an actual chunk out of the 3D world you are playing in.



1. Get the depth right.



This means that objects that are "infinitely" far away will require your eyes to be parallel to eachother to see a single image. Some might need to unlock the depth to achieve this, though I found it fine for my 24 inch Acer, at about 3 feet, at 100% depth.



The way I test this is by




  • pointing the game camera at something "infinitely" far away,
  • then putting my face ON the screen, eyes practically touching it.
  • Each eye should be above one of the 2 images of this distant object.
  • Then I relax my eyes so I am completely "staring off into infinity", with eyes parallel.
  • The 2 (blurry) images will be at a certain distance from each other like this, and I adjust the depth until they become one.




The benefit of being so close to the screen is that its impossible to instinctively focus on the screen, or get tricked into making your eyes diverge. Now your brain can really be fooled that a distant mountain is really way off in the distance.



2. Turn of FOV (unfortunately not always possible).



Yes, I know that is a very brave thing for me to say in an nvidia forum, where everyone is a passionate MAXIMUM FOV OR I WONT PLAY zealot, but in 3D, FOV ruins everything. Don't get me wrong, in my 2D days I was indeed one of those zealouts. It allowed added realism then, but now all it does is ruin the proportions of things, and your ability to judge distance will be off (and even makes me feel a bit dizzy and sick).



I personally do my best in each game to turn FOV off completely, which often involves turning it DOWN, to about 36 degrees. You have to work out what is realistic based on your distance to the screen, but if the objects start to stretch as they get closer to the side, your FOV is still in an unrealistic mode. You might be annoyed with the more limited visibility, but if your framerate is high and your mouse sensitive, your hand becomes your head and you can look wherever you want fast enough for you to not realize what you are not seeing. Anyway, get over it if you want ultimate realism!



3. Get the convergence just right (unfortunately not always possible).



Each game will be different, but the method will always be roughly the same. You want it so that objects that are as far away from "you" (i.e. YOU, not your character in 3rd person games, but your character too in first person) in the game as the screen is from you should be a single image when you take off your glasses. Get it? Thus, anything that comes closer to "you" than the screen should start to pop out, realistically.



One way to achieve this is to stand really close to an NPC. Get close enough to his face that if it were real life, it would be about 2 feet away from you. Get the convergence right until it pops out and then hold out your hand and try to touch his face. Keep playing with the convergence until your hand "rests" on his face and is the right size relative to his face. Then you got the convergence perfect.



Note that some first person games have your hands in front of you, but be careful to use these as a guide as they are often out of proportion to the rest of the game. In Metro 2033 for example, his hands are MASSIVE. When playing in 3D, put your hands next to an NPC and you will see they are as big as his head!



4. Get the framerate good.



Having a low frame rate, worse than bad graphics, detracts from the realism. Anti-aliasing should be the first thing to go, then high shadow settings, then turning the resolution down a notch (it is less noticeable than you think at the distances you are likely to be from the screen).



5. Get the room as dark and quiet as possible.



Other lights and sounds can really pull you out of the game subconsciously.



6. Get surround sound if you can and turn it up.



Do your best to play with the game settings so that environmental sounds are realistically loud, and turn down the guns etc. to compensate. If you cant do that, see if you have a volume equalization option on your graphics card to allow you this. The environment sounds are the most immersion-inducing of them all.



7. Tell everyone you are busy and enjoy a night of losing yourself in another world!



Don't feel ashamed to enjoy letting your imagination take over for a while, like a child, and pretend you are in a better/worse/scarier/funner world for a little while! Don't forget to take regular breaks and try to remember what is the real world.



Guys, when used for realism by those who prefer it, and used properly, this is actually very dangerous as it all will become so much more fun. Be careful, and make sure you don't sacrifice your real life for too much gaming. It has happened to the best of us, especially the ones who cried that they were above losing their life to games. If necessary, get hold of a game-blocking scheduler program and give someone else the password and give yourself a fair amount of time each night to play.



I understand that others may think that some of these steps are less necessary than others, but I don't think any would argue that each does maximise the realism of your games. I am looking forward to hearing any other suggestions for improved realism (of course multi-screening would be AWESOME, would love to do that!), or better ways of achieving the above results!







Best games I have played in Ultra-realism mode: Just Cause 2 with the JC2FPS first person mod (made by myself actually!) and steam FOV setting to 0.85, and metro 2033 with FOV set to 35 in the cfg files. Looking to make Mafia II first person and figure out a way of reducing the FOV so that can be the next one I try. Any suggestions?





Thanks for reading,

Dr Kaii

#1
Posted 03/15/2011 08:37 PM   
I like the idea about the low FOV...

Trying out some games as we speak...!
I like the idea about the low FOV...



Trying out some games as we speak...!

Intel I7 3820 3.8 Ghz,MSI MS7760 Motherboard, 6GB )2x MSI GTX670 (SLI),OCZ Vertex 230Gb SSD,OCZ Agility 120Gb SSD, Asus 3D VG278HR ,Optoma HD67 3D DLP Beamer with 95inch 2.5 gain screen.

#2
Posted 03/16/2011 07:28 PM   
You know metro2033 uses not a 'horizontal fov' setting but 'vertical' ....

Besides, won't really work without eye tracking and careful settings , basically you re mimicking VR here, I don't think you can get too close.
You know metro2033 uses not a 'horizontal fov' setting but 'vertical' ....



Besides, won't really work without eye tracking and careful settings , basically you re mimicking VR here, I don't think you can get too close.

#3
Posted 03/16/2011 07:48 PM   
Great post but I disagree completely about the FOV. Perfect example is BC2, in the single player they lock the FOV to what it would be on consoles (I have a 16:10 screen) and in multiplayer you can edit to your liking. I simply CANNOT play single player as it weirds my eyes out looking through a 'zoomed in view'. I *never* get motion sickness or anything like that, but I absolutely can not tolerate the narrow FOV. Of course, this will come down to personal taste so it might just be me, but I don't see how it would help. Regardless, excellent post and I'll check out your JC2 mod sometime. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
Great post but I disagree completely about the FOV. Perfect example is BC2, in the single player they lock the FOV to what it would be on consoles (I have a 16:10 screen) and in multiplayer you can edit to your liking. I simply CANNOT play single player as it weirds my eyes out looking through a 'zoomed in view'. I *never* get motion sickness or anything like that, but I absolutely can not tolerate the narrow FOV. Of course, this will come down to personal taste so it might just be me, but I don't see how it would help. Regardless, excellent post and I'll check out your JC2 mod sometime. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

i7-6700k @ 4.5GHz, 2x 970 GTX SLI, 16GB DDR4 @ 3000mhz, MSI Gaming M7, Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD 512GB, 2x 1TB RAID 1, 850w EVGA, Corsair RGB 90 keyboard

#4
Posted 03/16/2011 08:05 PM   
I don't think there is room to disagree with FOV. Yes, increased FOV has a multitude of benefits and in 98% of cases it is something you want. But in my very specific case - i.e. increasing realism - it doesn't apply.

When you add FOV what you are doing is changing perceived distance between objects along the line of sight. If there is a box 2 meters away, and a building 20 meters away, at a normal FOV, you will see them as 18 meters apart from eachother. Increasing FOV makes them seem further apart than that. Not to mention that the more you move away from the line of sight, the decreased distance between objects also detracts from "realism".

Your mind can adjust, yes, but not exactly. If you want perfect realism, get a sextant or some other angle measuring device and work out the angle the two sides of the screen make to your nose and set your horizontal FOV to that.
I don't think there is room to disagree with FOV. Yes, increased FOV has a multitude of benefits and in 98% of cases it is something you want. But in my very specific case - i.e. increasing realism - it doesn't apply.



When you add FOV what you are doing is changing perceived distance between objects along the line of sight. If there is a box 2 meters away, and a building 20 meters away, at a normal FOV, you will see them as 18 meters apart from eachother. Increasing FOV makes them seem further apart than that. Not to mention that the more you move away from the line of sight, the decreased distance between objects also detracts from "realism".



Your mind can adjust, yes, but not exactly. If you want perfect realism, get a sextant or some other angle measuring device and work out the angle the two sides of the screen make to your nose and set your horizontal FOV to that.

#5
Posted 12/10/2011 06:52 PM   
Good thing I'm using a big projection at pretty close range. Default FOV is mostly correct already :p
Good thing I'm using a big projection at pretty close range. Default FOV is mostly correct already :p

Current Rig: |Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.6GHz, EVGA X58 Classified 4-way SLI, 6 GB ram, Geforce GTX670| -> |Acer H5360 + Nvidia 3D Vision|

#6
Posted 12/10/2011 07:00 PM   
I have found that i get a better look from the environment if i set distant objects to be a little farther apart than my eyes are wide, about 10% - 20%. It makes things look more accurately far away and large. Regarding FoV, i agree that there is a point where too much stretching of the image is not desirable. However, what is realistic? Walking around viewing life through a narrow window? I can place my hands at 89 degrees off from my line of sight and see my fingers wiggling. Thats almost a 180 degree FoV. So, i think theres a lot of room for debate on what is more realistic. To me it varies with the game a bit, but i'll usually have a little scene stretching going on.
I have found that i get a better look from the environment if i set distant objects to be a little farther apart than my eyes are wide, about 10% - 20%. It makes things look more accurately far away and large. Regarding FoV, i agree that there is a point where too much stretching of the image is not desirable. However, what is realistic? Walking around viewing life through a narrow window? I can place my hands at 89 degrees off from my line of sight and see my fingers wiggling. Thats almost a 180 degree FoV. So, i think theres a lot of room for debate on what is more realistic. To me it varies with the game a bit, but i'll usually have a little scene stretching going on.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV as desktop monitor, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D PNG screens - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia tech support online form - Nvidia support: 1-800-797-6530

#7
Posted 12/10/2011 11:03 PM   
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