Game developers should consider DUAL split screens Yes we would no longer need prop drivers
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Wouldn´t it be great if 'someone' just told the gaming industry how to program any game into S3D mode using dual screens (both connectors on a graphics card) with just slightly different perspective. The right screen for right eye, and left for left eye, simple as that. The usual the convergence/separation could be controllable with some hotkeys and we would be home free. /w00t.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':w00t:' />

Any planar setup, projectors or even a adapted HMD device could be run off the shelf with this setup! I myself are infact ready to ditch my CRT by now and really need alternatives but as time goes by the alternatives are getting fewer and fewer.... I´m allergic to any interlaced LCD´s and some half hearted compromises of the sort.

What do you think? Would this be the lasting long term solution?
Is there someone with the right connections that can drop the word?
Wouldn´t it be great if 'someone' just told the gaming industry how to program any game into S3D mode using dual screens (both connectors on a graphics card) with just slightly different perspective. The right screen for right eye, and left for left eye, simple as that. The usual the convergence/separation could be controllable with some hotkeys and we would be home free. /w00t.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':w00t:' />



Any planar setup, projectors or even a adapted HMD device could be run off the shelf with this setup! I myself are infact ready to ditch my CRT by now and really need alternatives but as time goes by the alternatives are getting fewer and fewer.... I´m allergic to any interlaced LCD´s and some half hearted compromises of the sort.



What do you think? Would this be the lasting long term solution?

Is there someone with the right connections that can drop the word?

#1
Posted 04/06/2008 03:03 PM   
no point as there are about 100 people in the world that use set ups like thart, with special screens or projectors. they wouldnt make enough money off it. there are hardly any games that support multiple monitors just normally, like flight simulators or sup com, let alone 3d images.

it would be good i admit, if i had a multi projector set up or something.


what is wrong with the stereoscopic drivers atm? or getting one of those 3d screens?
no point as there are about 100 people in the world that use set ups like thart, with special screens or projectors. they wouldnt make enough money off it. there are hardly any games that support multiple monitors just normally, like flight simulators or sup com, let alone 3d images.



it would be good i admit, if i had a multi projector set up or something.





what is wrong with the stereoscopic drivers atm? or getting one of those 3d screens?

_ NVLDDMKM problems_ | _ problems getting a driver for a laptop graphics card_ | _What PSU do I need?_

[quote name='The Professor' date='11 August 2011 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1313055223' post='1277858']

I think Qazax is a pretty cool guy. eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything.

#2
Posted 04/06/2008 03:33 PM   
[quote name='qazax' date='Apr 6 2008, 04:33 PM']there are hardly any games that support multiple monitors just normally[right][snapback]357585[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

My point exactly, but is it a given? Why is it so?
I want to change this conception to be turned around.
[quote name='qazax' date='Apr 6 2008, 04:33 PM']there are hardly any games that support multiple monitors just normally
[snapback]357585[/snapback]






My point exactly, but is it a given? Why is it so?

I want to change this conception to be turned around.

#3
Posted 04/07/2008 09:11 AM   
I'm not trolling but look up gimmick in the dictionary
I'm not trolling but look up gimmick in the dictionary

天にまします我らの父よ
ねがわくは御名をあがめさせたまえ
み国をきたらせたまえ
みこころの天になるごとく、地にもなさせたまえ
我らの日用の糧を、今日も与えたまえ
我らの罪を犯すものを、我らが許すごとく
我らの罪をも許したまえ
我らを試みにあわせず、悪より救い出したまえ
国と力と栄えとは、限りなくなんじのものなればなり
アーメン

#4
Posted 04/07/2008 09:18 AM   
Look up depth perception in the dictionary.

I have two eyes, the PC is doing all of the work to calculate the depth perception already. Why can't I have that information downloaded to both eyes and greatly increase my immersion? It is a very super simple process to open two viewports and have one at the position of each eye. That is all he is asking for. CarlKenner on mtbs3d.com forums has added native support for 11 types of Stereoscopic viewing to AssaulltCube, the open source game based on the Cube engine. It works great, and he is one man in his spare time doing this for fun.

It is not a gimmick any more than stereo sound is a gimmick. (in fact less so because what you see in a virtual environment is much much more important than what you hear. Would you rather be blind or deaf?)

I don't know where Qazax gets off, he seems to be trolling because he hasn't a clue what stereoscopic 3D is.

PS, you can take two CRT screens and any simple mirror and view in perfect dual depth perception 3D on most DirectX and OpenGL apps:

[url="http://www.crystalcanyons.net/pages/TechNotes/DualMonitorDigitalViewing.shtm"]http://www.crystalcanyons.net/pages/TechNo...talViewing.shtm[/url]

[b]To the OP[/b], I agree with you fully. It is super simple to do dual stereoscopy, and dual polarized rigs are fairly cheap and easy to make too.

I think as soon as this is more mainstream we can see more support. The devs need to have the equipment, desire, and support from their supervisors. (EA said something about support, but it seems just to pimp some kind of Samsung display thingy that costs $x,xxx)

Unfortunately, as trollpanda here has shown, most people see it as a gimmick (believe it or not many people have no use for depth perception in their everyday lives, either due to one weak eye, or lack of training in use of depth perception, or just general bad eyesight or lack of interest in anything, let alone how it looks or where it is.)

This may be due to lousy anaglyph and gross shutter glasses early on in the development of S3D for mainstream usage.

I think if you could get anyone with reasonable depth perception to try some of their games in real 3D for a bit until they were used to it they would change their mind, but that is like asking the mountain to come to Mohammed, you wouldn't have much luck as these people have sadly closed their minds already to new experiences.
Look up depth perception in the dictionary.



I have two eyes, the PC is doing all of the work to calculate the depth perception already. Why can't I have that information downloaded to both eyes and greatly increase my immersion? It is a very super simple process to open two viewports and have one at the position of each eye. That is all he is asking for. CarlKenner on mtbs3d.com forums has added native support for 11 types of Stereoscopic viewing to AssaulltCube, the open source game based on the Cube engine. It works great, and he is one man in his spare time doing this for fun.



It is not a gimmick any more than stereo sound is a gimmick. (in fact less so because what you see in a virtual environment is much much more important than what you hear. Would you rather be blind or deaf?)



I don't know where Qazax gets off, he seems to be trolling because he hasn't a clue what stereoscopic 3D is.



PS, you can take two CRT screens and any simple mirror and view in perfect dual depth perception 3D on most DirectX and OpenGL apps:



http://www.crystalcanyons.net/pages/TechNo...talViewing.shtm



To the OP, I agree with you fully. It is super simple to do dual stereoscopy, and dual polarized rigs are fairly cheap and easy to make too.



I think as soon as this is more mainstream we can see more support. The devs need to have the equipment, desire, and support from their supervisors. (EA said something about support, but it seems just to pimp some kind of Samsung display thingy that costs $x,xxx)



Unfortunately, as trollpanda here has shown, most people see it as a gimmick (believe it or not many people have no use for depth perception in their everyday lives, either due to one weak eye, or lack of training in use of depth perception, or just general bad eyesight or lack of interest in anything, let alone how it looks or where it is.)



This may be due to lousy anaglyph and gross shutter glasses early on in the development of S3D for mainstream usage.



I think if you could get anyone with reasonable depth perception to try some of their games in real 3D for a bit until they were used to it they would change their mind, but that is like asking the mountain to come to Mohammed, you wouldn't have much luck as these people have sadly closed their minds already to new experiences.

#5
Posted 04/09/2008 06:10 AM   
I do know what depth perception is. I do enjoy watching "3D movies" but until VR is made computers won't have 3D it is still 2D with an illusion. Hence the Gimmick part. And making to pictures off depth slightly puts strain on the PC. Like it has enough maths to do already :D 3D is the third dimension which you can touch you can't touch 3D stereo apart from 2D screen now last time i checked?
I do know what depth perception is. I do enjoy watching "3D movies" but until VR is made computers won't have 3D it is still 2D with an illusion. Hence the Gimmick part. And making to pictures off depth slightly puts strain on the PC. Like it has enough maths to do already :D 3D is the third dimension which you can touch you can't touch 3D stereo apart from 2D screen now last time i checked?

天にまします我らの父よ
ねがわくは御名をあがめさせたまえ
み国をきたらせたまえ
みこころの天になるごとく、地にもなさせたまえ
我らの日用の糧を、今日も与えたまえ
我らの罪を犯すものを、我らが許すごとく
我らの罪をも許したまえ
我らを試みにあわせず、悪より救い出したまえ
国と力と栄えとは、限りなくなんじのものなればなり
アーメン

#6
Posted 04/09/2008 06:28 AM   
I just had a quick thought, could it be that DirectX and OpenGL don't have proper support for either multiple monitors or Stereoscopic 3D?

I know that OpenGL has support because there are many industrial uses for real 3D, including CAD and Brain scan viewing stations.

I think that DirectX needs to catch up with the times, a system can have 4-6 monitor support now, and many do. Yet the support is crap, and for S3d it is even worse.

The desktop needs to be S3D sooner rather than later, and we will need a 3D control platform. The Wii has demonstrated that the hardware needn't cost much (in fact a Nunchuk and wiimote could easily control a simple 3D computing environment).

My dream system would have 2-6 projectors making a super widescreen for S3D, sadly
the support isn't there.
I just had a quick thought, could it be that DirectX and OpenGL don't have proper support for either multiple monitors or Stereoscopic 3D?



I know that OpenGL has support because there are many industrial uses for real 3D, including CAD and Brain scan viewing stations.



I think that DirectX needs to catch up with the times, a system can have 4-6 monitor support now, and many do. Yet the support is crap, and for S3d it is even worse.



The desktop needs to be S3D sooner rather than later, and we will need a 3D control platform. The Wii has demonstrated that the hardware needn't cost much (in fact a Nunchuk and wiimote could easily control a simple 3D computing environment).



My dream system would have 2-6 projectors making a super widescreen for S3D, sadly

the support isn't there.

#7
Posted 04/09/2008 06:38 AM   
[quote name='Lewa Nua' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:28 PM']I do know what depth perception is. I do enjoy watching "3D movies" but until VR is made computers won't have 3D it is still 2D with an illusion. Hence the Gimmick part. And making to pictures off depth slightly puts strain on the PC. Like it has enough maths to do already :D 3D is the third dimension which you can touch you can't touch 3D stereo apart from 2D screen now last time i checked?
[right][snapback]359196[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
[b]NO!!!!!!![/b]

You don't understand at all, the work is mostly done (95%+), the added rendering is no harder than added resolution.
[b]
THE MATH IS DONE AND IN THE GAME ALREADY!!!![/b]

Edit:

The Novint Falcon is a force feedback (objects you can touch in 3D) device that works in 3D:
[url="http://home.novint.com/products/novint_falcon.php"]http://home.novint.com/products/novint_falcon.php[/url]

$160 from Walmart.com: [url="http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9107831"]http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9107831[/url]

See here for more infos: [url="http://qdot.livejournal.com/236133.html"]http://qdot.livejournal.com/236133.html[/url]


("hence the gimmick part", "puts a strain on the pc"? What are you talking about? Do you have a clue about how computers work? Have you ever heard of a viewport or a Z-Buffer? How about a Z axis? I am sorry you are so ignorant.)

Do you do all your gaming with force feedback? Any of it? Got a force-feedback mouse? Then your argument has no merit (if you do use your force-feedback or haptic mouse in your "2D" non-vr videogames then I apologize. If not then you have no reason to suddenly expect force feedback as you move to a 3D viewing system.)


If your second eyeball is such a gimmick why do you have it?

Edited for language, sorry I flew off the handle.
[quote name='Lewa Nua' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:28 PM']I do know what depth perception is. I do enjoy watching "3D movies" but until VR is made computers won't have 3D it is still 2D with an illusion. Hence the Gimmick part. And making to pictures off depth slightly puts strain on the PC. Like it has enough maths to do already :D 3D is the third dimension which you can touch you can't touch 3D stereo apart from 2D screen now last time i checked?

[snapback]359196[/snapback]




NO!!!!!!!



You don't understand at all, the work is mostly done (95%+), the added rendering is no harder than added resolution.



THE MATH IS DONE AND IN THE GAME ALREADY!!!!




Edit:



The Novint Falcon is a force feedback (objects you can touch in 3D) device that works in 3D:

http://home.novint.com/products/novint_falcon.php



$160 from Walmart.com: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9107831



See here for more infos: http://qdot.livejournal.com/236133.html





("hence the gimmick part", "puts a strain on the pc"? What are you talking about? Do you have a clue about how computers work? Have you ever heard of a viewport or a Z-Buffer? How about a Z axis? I am sorry you are so ignorant.)



Do you do all your gaming with force feedback? Any of it? Got a force-feedback mouse? Then your argument has no merit (if you do use your force-feedback or haptic mouse in your "2D" non-vr videogames then I apologize. If not then you have no reason to suddenly expect force feedback as you move to a 3D viewing system.)





If your second eyeball is such a gimmick why do you have it?



Edited for language, sorry I flew off the handle.

#8
Posted 04/09/2008 06:40 AM   
And is done again for the second view!
And is done again for the second view!

天にまします我らの父よ
ねがわくは御名をあがめさせたまえ
み国をきたらせたまえ
みこころの天になるごとく、地にもなさせたまえ
我らの日用の糧を、今日も与えたまえ
我らの罪を犯すものを、我らが許すごとく
我らの罪をも許したまえ
我らを試みにあわせず、悪より救い出したまえ
国と力と栄えとは、限りなくなんじのものなればなり
アーメン

#9
Posted 04/09/2008 06:48 AM   
The "SCENE", is already calculated. The viewport is no harder to draw than the pixels added to the render.

The Scene is calculated on load, it is always there.

Edit: I guess according to Carl Kenner you could go either way, I am pretty sure that the method nVidia uses just clones a viewport, I don't see why a game couldn't use the same method.


Sorry I flew off the handle.
The "SCENE", is already calculated. The viewport is no harder to draw than the pixels added to the render.



The Scene is calculated on load, it is always there.



Edit: I guess according to Carl Kenner you could go either way, I am pretty sure that the method nVidia uses just clones a viewport, I don't see why a game couldn't use the same method.





Sorry I flew off the handle.

#10
Posted 04/09/2008 06:52 AM   
The added math is not "all done again", just the minimal part pertaining to the viewport.

It is only a fraction more than added pixels. The math pertaining to the viewport is trivial, ALL of the 3D math is done prior to any viewport layer.

Edit:
I am speaking of the way nVidia does it, I don't know of any reason the second viewport couldn't use the scene data.

Again, sorry I flew off the handle.
The added math is not "all done again", just the minimal part pertaining to the viewport.



It is only a fraction more than added pixels. The math pertaining to the viewport is trivial, ALL of the 3D math is done prior to any viewport layer.



Edit:

I am speaking of the way nVidia does it, I don't know of any reason the second viewport couldn't use the scene data.



Again, sorry I flew off the handle.

#11
Posted 04/09/2008 06:55 AM   
It is! Person taking programing here.
It is! Person taking programing here.

天にまします我らの父よ
ねがわくは御名をあがめさせたまえ
み国をきたらせたまえ
みこころの天になるごとく、地にもなさせたまえ
我らの日用の糧を、今日も与えたまえ
我らの罪を犯すものを、我らが許すごとく
我らの罪をも許したまえ
我らを試みにあわせず、悪より救い出したまえ
国と力と栄えとは、限りなくなんじのものなればなり
アーメン

#12
Posted 04/09/2008 06:55 AM   
[quote name='Lewa Nua' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:55 PM']It is! Person taking programing here.
[right][snapback]359207[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
What is?

I am glad to see you are learning.

Basically it isn't very hard to calculate where the second view is coming from once all the scene data is called up, it is very trivial to open another viewport and send the data to the video card.

It calls the texture/vertex/shader units just like any other pixel.

We aren't talking a major problem for any modern video card, to it a pixel is just a pixel, all the textures/ z-buffers, and 3D scene data are done already, the tiny amount of overhead associated with a little more resolution and a second viewport is nothing.
[quote name='Lewa Nua' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:55 PM']It is! Person taking programing here.

[snapback]359207[/snapback]




What is?



I am glad to see you are learning.



Basically it isn't very hard to calculate where the second view is coming from once all the scene data is called up, it is very trivial to open another viewport and send the data to the video card.



It calls the texture/vertex/shader units just like any other pixel.



We aren't talking a major problem for any modern video card, to it a pixel is just a pixel, all the textures/ z-buffers, and 3D scene data are done already, the tiny amount of overhead associated with a little more resolution and a second viewport is nothing.

#13
Posted 04/09/2008 07:02 AM   
I have played many games in 3D and they don't go perceptibly slower, it isn't a huge deal.

Many flight simulators offer multiple viewports (up to 9?), if they would only position a couple in the right place for regular games we would have our stereoscopic vision.

With the ever increasing speed of hardware this makes a much bigger difference than more and more shaders and 30" displays, and is cheaper to implement as well.


Did you check out that novint falcon? Very nice setup for a great price. Good for VR.
I have played many games in 3D and they don't go perceptibly slower, it isn't a huge deal.



Many flight simulators offer multiple viewports (up to 9?), if they would only position a couple in the right place for regular games we would have our stereoscopic vision.



With the ever increasing speed of hardware this makes a much bigger difference than more and more shaders and 30" displays, and is cheaper to implement as well.





Did you check out that novint falcon? Very nice setup for a great price. Good for VR.

#14
Posted 04/09/2008 07:06 AM   
Yea I looked at it. Very good since its so early in its stages.
Yea I looked at it. Very good since its so early in its stages.

天にまします我らの父よ
ねがわくは御名をあがめさせたまえ
み国をきたらせたまえ
みこころの天になるごとく、地にもなさせたまえ
我らの日用の糧を、今日も与えたまえ
我らの罪を犯すものを、我らが許すごとく
我らの罪をも許したまえ
我らを試みにあわせず、悪より救い出したまえ
国と力と栄えとは、限りなくなんじのものなればなり
アーメン

#15
Posted 04/09/2008 07:08 AM   
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