Mass Effect 2 - 3d Stuttering
Decided to play through the Mass Effect trilogy again but this time in 3d. Last time I only played ME3 in 3d. I am having an issue and not sure why. I have the helixmod fix installed and if I turn on 3dvision in the Nvidia control panel ME2 has horrible stuttering. This is even if I disable (CTRL+T) 3d in the game. However if I run the game with 3d disabled in the control panel the stuttering is gone. The stuttering is what I would expect if I had ram or swap file issues like the game is stalling to load something. Is this a 3dvision driver bug? I don't have this issue with other games in 3d. Windows 10 Pro 1709 x64 AMD FX8350 GTX 1060 6GB driver 417.01 16GB Ram
Decided to play through the Mass Effect trilogy again but this time in 3d. Last time I only played ME3 in 3d.

I am having an issue and not sure why. I have the helixmod fix installed and if I turn on 3dvision in the Nvidia control panel ME2 has horrible stuttering. This is even if I disable (CTRL+T) 3d in the game. However if I run the game with 3d disabled in the control panel the stuttering is gone.

The stuttering is what I would expect if I had ram or swap file issues like the game is stalling to load something.

Is this a 3dvision driver bug? I don't have this issue with other games in 3d.

Windows 10 Pro 1709 x64
AMD FX8350
GTX 1060 6GB driver 417.01
16GB Ram

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#1
Posted 01/08/2019 03:00 AM   
The stuttering is pretty constant while moving. I am on Omega right now and it is horrible. While walking it stutters almost every 40-50 virtual feet while moving. No stuttering when standing still or spinning the camera.
The stuttering is pretty constant while moving. I am on Omega right now and it is horrible. While walking it stutters almost every 40-50 virtual feet while moving. No stuttering when standing still or spinning the camera.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#2
Posted 01/08/2019 03:02 AM   
My money is on the 3DV CPU bug. The worse the CPU, the exponentially worse the bug manifestation. Presumably, your GPU utilisation remains well be low 90% throughout the stuttering scenarios?
My money is on the 3DV CPU bug. The worse the CPU, the exponentially worse the bug manifestation.

Presumably, your GPU utilisation remains well be low 90% throughout the stuttering scenarios?

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#3
Posted 01/08/2019 09:22 AM   
Possible causes: - Some flag in the game's nVidia profile; try resetting your nVidia global profile settings to defaults if you haven't tinkered with anything in the game profile; - The Helixmod 3D fix; try running the game in 3D without the fix and check if issue is still present; - Background program or overlay app like RTSS; if you're playing the game on Origin disable the Origin In-Game overlay and don't forget to minimize the client to tray; - Fullscreen optimizations or W10 bug; open the game exe's properties and disable Fullscreen Optimizations in the Compatibility tab, and also try enabling W7 or W8 compatibility mode; - Keyboard or mouse polling rate (most likely); try decreasing the polling rate to 500hz or lower in your mouse and kb software. Might wanna check the helixmod blog comments for possible solutions or other ME2 threads on this forum and also try disconnecting any game controllers. It's definitely not a system bottleneck with your specs. Played this game before in 3D on antique hardware with no problems.
Possible causes:

- Some flag in the game's nVidia profile; try resetting your nVidia global profile settings to defaults if you haven't tinkered with anything in the game profile;

- The Helixmod 3D fix; try running the game in 3D without the fix and check if issue is still present;

- Background program or overlay app like RTSS; if you're playing the game on Origin disable the Origin In-Game overlay and don't forget to minimize the client to tray;

- Fullscreen optimizations or W10 bug; open the game exe's properties and disable Fullscreen Optimizations in the Compatibility tab, and also try enabling W7 or W8 compatibility mode;

- Keyboard or mouse polling rate (most likely); try decreasing the polling rate to 500hz or lower in your mouse and kb software.

Might wanna check the helixmod blog comments for possible solutions or other ME2 threads on this forum and also try disconnecting any game controllers.

It's definitely not a system bottleneck with your specs. Played this game before in 3D on antique hardware with no problems.

#4
Posted 01/08/2019 10:22 AM   
It could be my imagination, but I thought I read about this somewhere else in the past specifically with Mass Effect 2. If so, something must have changed at some point. Or, I'm completely wrong and it's the core bug! Seems unlikely to be a bottleneck in a game this old though.
It could be my imagination, but I thought I read about this somewhere else in the past specifically with Mass Effect 2. If so, something must have changed at some point. Or, I'm completely wrong and it's the core bug! Seems unlikely to be a bottleneck in a game this old though.

GTX 1070 SLI, I7-6700k ~ 4.4Ghz, 3x BenQ XL2420T, BenQ TK800, LG 55EG960V (3D OLED), Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Crucial M4 SSD, 3D vision kit, Xpand x104 glasses, Corsair HX1000i, Win 10 pro 64/Win 7 64https://www.3dmark.com/fs/9529310

#5
Posted 01/08/2019 12:11 PM   
[quote="RAGEdemon"]My money is on the 3DV CPU bug. The worse the CPU, the exponentially worse the bug manifestation. Presumably, your GPU utilisation remains well be low 90% throughout the stuttering scenarios?[/quote] GPU usage is always fairly low as it doesn't take much GPU to run this game at 60fps. However during stutters the GPU usage does sometimes drop down to 0% or some other very low number. CPU usage stays pretty constant. I tried disabling Thread Optimization in the Nvidia panel and game was mostly even spread across 4 of the 8 cores with some usage on Core 6 and 0% on cores 7 and 8. No core was above 60%. I then turned Thread Optimization back to Auto and this time the load was more spread out across the cores but it made no difference to the stuttering. I will say it is very much similar to the issues I used to have with the Arkham games and with Far Cry 3. Especially Arkham Origins where with 3dvision would cause stuttering even if 3d was disabled in game. Except in this case the stuttering is much worse than in the videos below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIuCHDf-77o and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujm7gse-_6c Odd thing is that was fixed at some point after 2016 and I just fired it up and have no stuttering at all in that game. It does make me concerned about ME3 because I remember playing that game through in 3d when it came out and had no issues at all. Now that I am having problems with ME2, problems so bad I have to play in 2d, I wonder if ME3 now has the same issue.
RAGEdemon said:My money is on the 3DV CPU bug. The worse the CPU, the exponentially worse the bug manifestation.

Presumably, your GPU utilisation remains well be low 90% throughout the stuttering scenarios?


GPU usage is always fairly low as it doesn't take much GPU to run this game at 60fps. However during stutters the GPU usage does sometimes drop down to 0% or some other very low number. CPU usage stays pretty constant.

I tried disabling Thread Optimization in the Nvidia panel and game was mostly even spread across 4 of the 8 cores with some usage on Core 6 and 0% on cores 7 and 8. No core was above 60%. I then turned Thread Optimization back to Auto and this time the load was more spread out across the cores but it made no difference to the stuttering.

I will say it is very much similar to the issues I used to have with the Arkham games and with Far Cry 3. Especially Arkham Origins where with 3dvision would cause stuttering even if 3d was disabled in game. Except in this case the stuttering is much worse than in the videos below.

and


Odd thing is that was fixed at some point after 2016 and I just fired it up and have no stuttering at all in that game.

It does make me concerned about ME3 because I remember playing that game through in 3d when it came out and had no issues at all. Now that I am having problems with ME2, problems so bad I have to play in 2d, I wonder if ME3 now has the same issue.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#6
Posted 01/08/2019 02:45 PM   
[quote="Kaimasta"]Possible causes: - Some flag in the game's nVidia profile; try resetting your nVidia global profile settings to defaults if you haven't tinkered with anything in the game profile; - The Helixmod 3D fix; try running the game in 3D without the fix and check if issue is still present; - Background program or overlay app like RTSS; if you're playing the game on Origin disable the Origin In-Game overlay and don't forget to minimize the client to tray; - Fullscreen optimizations or W10 bug; open the game exe's properties and disable Fullscreen Optimizations in the Compatibility tab, and also try enabling W7 or W8 compatibility mode; - Keyboard or mouse polling rate (most likely); try decreasing the polling rate to 500hz or lower in your mouse and kb software. Might wanna check the helixmod blog comments for possible solutions or other ME2 threads on this forum and also try disconnecting any game controllers. It's definitely not a system bottleneck with your specs. Played this game before in 3D on antique hardware with no problems.[/quote] 1. I tried with Helixmod uninstalled and no change in stuttering when 3d enabled in control panel. 2. I do not have RTSS running and this is on the disc version of ME2. No Origin. However, I did add my disk key to Origin and install the Origin version as well to see if it ran better, but it has the exact same performance stuttering. 3. I have spent at least a week trying different game/windows settings to eliminate the stutter as I did not think is was 3d related. I tried disabling FullScreen Optimization, enabling Windows 7 and Windows 8 compatibility mode. I also tried lots of ME2 ini settings with a focus on increasing memory pool size and related settings. Nothing worked until I decided to run the game with 3dvision disabled in the control panel. 4. I checked my mouse polling rate with https://zowie.benq.com/en/support/mouse-rate-checker.html and it came it at around 128hz (Logitech M510 mouse). Does that seem right?
Kaimasta said:Possible causes:

- Some flag in the game's nVidia profile; try resetting your nVidia global profile settings to defaults if you haven't tinkered with anything in the game profile;

- The Helixmod 3D fix; try running the game in 3D without the fix and check if issue is still present;

- Background program or overlay app like RTSS; if you're playing the game on Origin disable the Origin In-Game overlay and don't forget to minimize the client to tray;

- Fullscreen optimizations or W10 bug; open the game exe's properties and disable Fullscreen Optimizations in the Compatibility tab, and also try enabling W7 or W8 compatibility mode;

- Keyboard or mouse polling rate (most likely); try decreasing the polling rate to 500hz or lower in your mouse and kb software.

Might wanna check the helixmod blog comments for possible solutions or other ME2 threads on this forum and also try disconnecting any game controllers.

It's definitely not a system bottleneck with your specs. Played this game before in 3D on antique hardware with no problems.


1. I tried with Helixmod uninstalled and no change in stuttering when 3d enabled in control panel.

2. I do not have RTSS running and this is on the disc version of ME2. No Origin. However, I did add my disk key to Origin and install the Origin version as well to see if it ran better, but it has the exact same performance stuttering.

3. I have spent at least a week trying different game/windows settings to eliminate the stutter as I did not think is was 3d related. I tried disabling FullScreen Optimization, enabling Windows 7 and Windows 8 compatibility mode. I also tried lots of ME2 ini settings with a focus on increasing memory pool size and related settings. Nothing worked until I decided to run the game with 3dvision disabled in the control panel.

4. I checked my mouse polling rate with https://zowie.benq.com/en/support/mouse-rate-checker.html and it came it at around 128hz (Logitech M510 mouse). Does that seem right?

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#7
Posted 01/08/2019 02:51 PM   
If ME2 is the only game experiencing this stuttering then it's probably unrelated to your previous problems with those other games. Did you check the polling rate in your keyboard software? Can you test with a game controller as well ? https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/me3explorer/me2-controller-support-power-wheel-t1703.html If you're familiar with nVidia Profile Inspector you could remove the game's executable from its profile to eliminate a possibly broken flag. Lastly you might be able to identify with LatencyMon which driver is causing these hiccups although it's really strange that they only happen in 3D tbh.
If ME2 is the only game experiencing this stuttering then it's probably unrelated to your previous problems with those other games. Did you check the polling rate in your keyboard software? Can you test with a game controller as well ? https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/me3explorer/me2-controller-support-power-wheel-t1703.html

If you're familiar with nVidia Profile Inspector you could remove the game's executable from its profile to eliminate a possibly broken flag.

Lastly you might be able to identify with LatencyMon which driver is causing these hiccups although it's really strange that they only happen in 3D tbh.

#8
Posted 01/08/2019 03:45 PM   
Well before Arkham Origins and Far Cry 3 were the only games I had that stuttered in 3d and the other Arkham games along with many other 3d games had no issues so it very well could still be a similar issue to before but this time with a different game. How would I check the polling rate for the wireless KB? It is a logitech keyboard. It came with the M510 wireless mouse. I did see others talk about polling rates and I can try installing the mod, but I have already installed ALOT texture mod so I would have to do a clean install of the game to probably test it. I have used Profile Inspector many times for things like linking a game to a Dx11 CM profile of another game. I tried removing the ME2 exe files from the ME2 profile and added them to another games profile and it did not fix the stuttering. There is a chance I chose a wrong profile to test with? I will give LatencyMon a try and see how the results compare with 3dvison enabled and disabled.
Well before Arkham Origins and Far Cry 3 were the only games I had that stuttered in 3d and the other Arkham games along with many other 3d games had no issues so it very well could still be a similar issue to before but this time with a different game.

How would I check the polling rate for the wireless KB? It is a logitech keyboard. It came with the M510 wireless mouse.

I did see others talk about polling rates and I can try installing the mod, but I have already installed ALOT texture mod so I would have to do a clean install of the game to probably test it.

I have used Profile Inspector many times for things like linking a game to a Dx11 CM profile of another game. I tried removing the ME2 exe files from the ME2 profile and added them to another games profile and it did not fix the stuttering. There is a chance I chose a wrong profile to test with?

I will give LatencyMon a try and see how the results compare with 3dvison enabled and disabled.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#9
Posted 01/08/2019 05:01 PM   
What are the chances of reporting this to Nvidia support and them "fixing" it? It seems pretty straightforward to me. Something in the 3dvision driver, even when 3d in game is off, is getting in the mix and causing stutter. When the 3dvision driver is disabled and not involved in the rendering pipeline then everything is perfect. I know each system is unique so it is really not that simple, but isn't that what Nvidia support is supposed to solve, or is 3dvision too niche and this game too old for them to care?
What are the chances of reporting this to Nvidia support and them "fixing" it? It seems pretty straightforward to me. Something in the 3dvision driver, even when 3d in game is off, is getting in the mix and causing stutter. When the 3dvision driver is disabled and not involved in the rendering pipeline then everything is perfect.

I know each system is unique so it is really not that simple, but isn't that what Nvidia support is supposed to solve, or is 3dvision too niche and this game too old for them to care?

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#10
Posted 01/08/2019 05:06 PM   
I tried LatencyMon and looking at the results between 3dvision enabled (stuttering) and 3dvision disabled (no stutter) I could not find any discernible difference between the captured results.
I tried LatencyMon and looking at the results between 3dvision enabled (stuttering) and 3dvision disabled (no stutter) I could not find any discernible difference between the captured results.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#11
Posted 01/08/2019 10:40 PM   
I uninstalled my current drivers then installed the latest. Did not make any difference. I then captures some latency graphs in game using FPSCounter for ME2. Per the site the graph reads like this. "What the FPS graph shows is time in milliseconds, each second. It goes from bottom to top, 0ms to 120ms, the width of the graph shows the samples taken every second in the configured time span. There are two kinds of information on the FPS graph, the average millisecond per second, in the picture as black-ish color and the maximun time in milliseconds it took to render a frame during that second shown in red. The grey lines represent where inside the FPS graph are, bottom to top, 120fps (8ms), 60fps (16ms) and 30fps (33ms). " Latency with 3dvision disabled (no stutter) https://ibb.co/swzhfXL Latency with 3dvision enabled but off in game(stutter) https://ibb.co/QFwHLZc
I uninstalled my current drivers then installed the latest. Did not make any difference.

I then captures some latency graphs in game using FPSCounter for ME2.

Per the site the graph reads like this.

"What the FPS graph shows is time in milliseconds, each second. It goes from bottom to top, 0ms to 120ms, the width of the graph shows the samples taken every second in the configured time span.

There are two kinds of information on the FPS graph, the average millisecond per second, in the picture as black-ish color and the maximun time in milliseconds it took to render a frame during that second shown in red.

The grey lines represent where inside the FPS graph are, bottom to top, 120fps (8ms), 60fps (16ms) and 30fps (33ms). "

Latency with 3dvision disabled (no stutter)
https://ibb.co/swzhfXL

Latency with 3dvision enabled but off in game(stutter)
https://ibb.co/QFwHLZc

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#12
Posted 01/08/2019 11:29 PM   
I sympathise terintamel. Look at your average CPU utilisation with 3DV enabled and 3DV disabled. If it's significantly lower with 3DV enabled, then we have found our problem... You are running an ancient and obsolete CPU with 1333MHz DDR3 memory. 3DV requires pretty high end hardware - especially CPU and memory, not least of all because of trying to brute force the 3DV CPU bottleneck bug. With respect mate, you're likely going to waste a lot of time trying to diagnose a problem which won't solve your issue. The only thing that will is upgrading to a modern high core clock / IPC Intel CPU and 3000MHz+ DDR4 memory. The alternative is to wait for nVidia to fix it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Maybe wait to see what AMD has to offer with their 7nm lineup this year...
I sympathise terintamel.

Look at your average CPU utilisation with 3DV enabled and 3DV disabled. If it's significantly lower with 3DV enabled, then we have found our problem...


You are running an ancient and obsolete CPU with 1333MHz DDR3 memory. 3DV requires pretty high end hardware - especially CPU and memory, not least of all because of trying to brute force the 3DV CPU bottleneck bug.

With respect mate, you're likely going to waste a lot of time trying to diagnose a problem which won't solve your issue. The only thing that will is upgrading to a modern high core clock / IPC Intel CPU and 3000MHz+ DDR4 memory.

The alternative is to wait for nVidia to fix it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Maybe wait to see what AMD has to offer with their 7nm lineup this year...

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#13
Posted 01/09/2019 01:25 AM   
I understand. Just resigned to the fact that there is some bug, like I had before 2 years ago with a few games, with this game. [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4982214/#4982214[/url] Good news is I just tested Mass Effect 3 in 3d and it is perfectly smooth.
I understand. Just resigned to the fact that there is some bug, like I had before 2 years ago with a few games, with this game.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/961616/3d-vision/stuttering-low-fps-in-3dvision-with-only-certain-games/post/4982214/#4982214

Good news is I just tested Mass Effect 3 in 3d and it is perfectly smooth.

AMD FX-8350 4GHz
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0
G-Skill PC3-10700- 16GB
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1060 OC 6GB - 417.01
Creative Soundblaster Z
ViewSonic VX2268WM Black 22" 1680x1050 5ms 120Hz 3Dvision
Windows 10 x64 1709

#14
Posted 01/09/2019 02:31 AM   
It's not just "some" bug mate, its a huge one affecting all games to various degrees, is well documented, and confirmed by nVidia, super bug. Check out this thread... [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/966422/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-bottelneck-gathering-information-thread-/1/[/url] Just tried Shadow of the Tomb Raider over the past week - limited to 3 cores with 3DV in DX11 mode. It's a shame the game's DX12 mode doesn't work with 3DV, - CPU utilisation in DX12 is amazing, for those lucky enough to have SBS compatible displays who don't have to rely on 3DV for 3D.
It's not just "some" bug mate, its a huge one affecting all games to various degrees, is well documented, and confirmed by nVidia, super bug. Check out this thread...

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/966422/3d-vision/3d-vision-cpu-bottelneck-gathering-information-thread-/1/

Just tried Shadow of the Tomb Raider over the past week - limited to 3 cores with 3DV in DX11 mode. It's a shame the game's DX12 mode doesn't work with 3DV, - CPU utilisation in DX12 is amazing, for those lucky enough to have SBS compatible displays who don't have to rely on 3DV for 3D.

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#15
Posted 01/09/2019 03:17 AM   
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