Disappointed in what I saw
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I noticed on the Nvidia Web site that you could test drive 3D Vision at Micro Center stores. So today I drove the better part of an hour to get to the Philadelphia store. Inside the rep told me that the glasses were "through a lot of use" and "not working 100%". We went over to the demo PC (which was locked up). He rebooted and killed some processes and then ran a "Demo Video".

The video was by Nvidia and showed some clips of game play. I must say I was not impressed. Nothing really jumped out at me - but the text & images in the demo appeared to be doubled without the glasses on. With the glasses on I didn't see a double image, but no really great 3D either. The screen was not at eye level, I was standing looking down on it (not sure if that matters).

Could there have been something wrong with this setup? Now I'm not sure I want to spend the $$$ on it.

DoP
I noticed on the Nvidia Web site that you could test drive 3D Vision at Micro Center stores. So today I drove the better part of an hour to get to the Philadelphia store. Inside the rep told me that the glasses were "through a lot of use" and "not working 100%". We went over to the demo PC (which was locked up). He rebooted and killed some processes and then ran a "Demo Video".



The video was by Nvidia and showed some clips of game play. I must say I was not impressed. Nothing really jumped out at me - but the text & images in the demo appeared to be doubled without the glasses on. With the glasses on I didn't see a double image, but no really great 3D either. The screen was not at eye level, I was standing looking down on it (not sure if that matters).



Could there have been something wrong with this setup? Now I'm not sure I want to spend the $$$ on it.



DoP

#1
Posted 06/16/2009 11:52 PM   
[quote name='DukeOfPrunes' post='553465' date='Jun 16 2009, 07:52 PM']The video was by Nvidia and showed some clips of game play. I must say I was not impressed. Nothing really jumped out at me - but the text & images in the demo appeared to be doubled without the glasses on. With the glasses on I didn't see a double image, but no really great 3D either.[/quote]

Then they did not have it set up properly, or maybe the glasses weren't working properly. 3d Vision inarguably produces a 3-dimensional image on screen when it's set up properly and the effect is quite unmistakable.

By the way, it sounds like you had the worst salesperson in the history of retail. /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' /> lol
[quote name='DukeOfPrunes' post='553465' date='Jun 16 2009, 07:52 PM']The video was by Nvidia and showed some clips of game play. I must say I was not impressed. Nothing really jumped out at me - but the text & images in the demo appeared to be doubled without the glasses on. With the glasses on I didn't see a double image, but no really great 3D either.



Then they did not have it set up properly, or maybe the glasses weren't working properly. 3d Vision inarguably produces a 3-dimensional image on screen when it's set up properly and the effect is quite unmistakable.



By the way, it sounds like you had the worst salesperson in the history of retail. /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' /> lol

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
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Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
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Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#2
Posted 06/17/2009 12:05 AM   
The demo that you saw is misleading. I have that same demo installed on my PC too, and it's no match to my games in 3D. There is a big problem with that demo. You can't increase depth in it; however, in games you can set the depth to max n you won't believe how beautiful it looks. Also, you should have asked the guy to show you a real game in action in 3D, not just a few sample screens compiled as a demo. And as you played the game for a few mins, you could set the depth and convergence to see the effects. I always play all my games in max 3D, coz it looks realistic. No need to get disappointed...if you are thinking about getting a 3D system, don't think twice. Once you see it in action you'll believe it. And of course you will NEVER play a 2D game again. For me 2D is over now. It's been 4 months I've been using 3D and never played a 2D game since.

Cheers
The demo that you saw is misleading. I have that same demo installed on my PC too, and it's no match to my games in 3D. There is a big problem with that demo. You can't increase depth in it; however, in games you can set the depth to max n you won't believe how beautiful it looks. Also, you should have asked the guy to show you a real game in action in 3D, not just a few sample screens compiled as a demo. And as you played the game for a few mins, you could set the depth and convergence to see the effects. I always play all my games in max 3D, coz it looks realistic. No need to get disappointed...if you are thinking about getting a 3D system, don't think twice. Once you see it in action you'll believe it. And of course you will NEVER play a 2D game again. For me 2D is over now. It's been 4 months I've been using 3D and never played a 2D game since.



Cheers

#3
Posted 06/17/2009 02:52 AM   
[quote name='jeff_cole' post='553510' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:52 PM']And of course you will NEVER play a 2D game again. For me 2D is over now. It's been 4 months I've been using 3D and never played a 2D game since.[/quote]

Totally agreed. I've actually found, much to my surprise, that I'm uninterested in playing games I used to play that aren't compatible with 3d (re: AoC) because gaming in 2d simply doesn't cut it anymore. It feels like half the game is missing or something. It's just like listening to music in stereo, you can't go back to a.m. radio -- even your favorite song sounds like crap in mono. ;)lol

I'll never game in 2d again. :)
[quote name='jeff_cole' post='553510' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:52 PM']And of course you will NEVER play a 2D game again. For me 2D is over now. It's been 4 months I've been using 3D and never played a 2D game since.



Totally agreed. I've actually found, much to my surprise, that I'm uninterested in playing games I used to play that aren't compatible with 3d (re: AoC) because gaming in 2d simply doesn't cut it anymore. It feels like half the game is missing or something. It's just like listening to music in stereo, you can't go back to a.m. radio -- even your favorite song sounds like crap in mono. ;)lol



I'll never game in 2d again. :)

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#4
Posted 06/17/2009 03:06 AM   
[quote name='DukeOfPrunes' post='553465' date='Jun 16 2009, 05:52 PM']I noticed on the Nvidia Web site that you could test drive 3D Vision at Micro Center stores. So today I drove the better part of an hour to get to the Philadelphia store. Inside the rep told me that the glasses were "through a lot of use" and "not working 100%". We went over to the demo PC (which was locked up). He rebooted and killed some processes and then ran a "Demo Video".

The video was by Nvidia and showed some clips of game play. I must say I was not impressed. Nothing really jumped out at me - but the text & images in the demo appeared to be doubled without the glasses on. With the glasses on I didn't see a double image, but no really great 3D either. The screen was not at eye level, I was standing looking down on it (not sure if that matters).

Could there have been something wrong with this setup? Now I'm not sure I want to spend the $$$ on it.

DoP[/quote]


That setup was certainly not tweaked correctly, and even if it was, that is about the most worthless thing they could have shown you. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />

If you are able to, try it with a game after tweaking the convergence to get a really good 3d effect and I imagine that you won't be getting cold feet about the purchase.

That sucks that they are showing it off in the worst possible manner, not only broken, but using incorrect settings and a shabby demo. /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' />
[quote name='DukeOfPrunes' post='553465' date='Jun 16 2009, 05:52 PM']I noticed on the Nvidia Web site that you could test drive 3D Vision at Micro Center stores. So today I drove the better part of an hour to get to the Philadelphia store. Inside the rep told me that the glasses were "through a lot of use" and "not working 100%". We went over to the demo PC (which was locked up). He rebooted and killed some processes and then ran a "Demo Video".



The video was by Nvidia and showed some clips of game play. I must say I was not impressed. Nothing really jumped out at me - but the text & images in the demo appeared to be doubled without the glasses on. With the glasses on I didn't see a double image, but no really great 3D either. The screen was not at eye level, I was standing looking down on it (not sure if that matters).



Could there have been something wrong with this setup? Now I'm not sure I want to spend the $$$ on it.



DoP





That setup was certainly not tweaked correctly, and even if it was, that is about the most worthless thing they could have shown you. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />



If you are able to, try it with a game after tweaking the convergence to get a really good 3d effect and I imagine that you won't be getting cold feet about the purchase.



That sucks that they are showing it off in the worst possible manner, not only broken, but using incorrect settings and a shabby demo. /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' />

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#5
Posted 06/17/2009 05:59 AM   
I think the major point being missed is it takes a few min for the 3d effect to start working, it has to do with your brain not the glasses, as you are trained to focus at ONE depth on a pc screen.

I tried with a couple of friends and took them on average to clearly see the 3d about 3 - 5 min,
then they LOVE IT and can see it straight away, I personally found it took about 4 days of gaming on and off to really get comfortable with the effect, which is awesome.

So this means having a quick 20sec try is simply a waste of time....
I think the major point being missed is it takes a few min for the 3d effect to start working, it has to do with your brain not the glasses, as you are trained to focus at ONE depth on a pc screen.



I tried with a couple of friends and took them on average to clearly see the 3d about 3 - 5 min,

then they LOVE IT and can see it straight away, I personally found it took about 4 days of gaming on and off to really get comfortable with the effect, which is awesome.



So this means having a quick 20sec try is simply a waste of time....

#6
Posted 06/17/2009 01:35 PM   
When you get used to 3d it's more immersive to increase the effect by time you get used to it. Problem comes when showing 3d-virgins and using your prefered settings. I bet you'll hear one and another "ouch" or some of them just nodding saying it looks great... :rolleyes:
This is why it isn't possible to make a demo with too high separation either. And this is also why the demo might look a lot "watered out" and gentle for those who are used to high settings.

When showcasing 3d: Start with very low settings at first!
When you get used to 3d it's more immersive to increase the effect by time you get used to it. Problem comes when showing 3d-virgins and using your prefered settings. I bet you'll hear one and another "ouch" or some of them just nodding saying it looks great... :rolleyes:

This is why it isn't possible to make a demo with too high separation either. And this is also why the demo might look a lot "watered out" and gentle for those who are used to high settings.



When showcasing 3d: Start with very low settings at first!

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#7
Posted 06/17/2009 02:11 PM   
Wait... what games were showcased on the demo video? That sounds a lot like the badly set up IZ3D demo they had in Fry's recently.
Wait... what games were showcased on the demo video? That sounds a lot like the badly set up IZ3D demo they had in Fry's recently.

#8
Posted 06/17/2009 04:58 PM   
I dont know why people think it takes getting used to. If its set up properly it instantly is recognizable. I think it depends on what you are showing people to get them to really see the depth. Since your brain is doing this all the time, you dont need to break somebody into the concept. It should look correct right from the start. I have shown demoes to many people and they all instantly are impressed.

The old setups where the screen would flicker every couple seconds and only be 85hz really threw people off, but now this system doesnt flicker ever and is at 120hz. I think it may be games that are a little harder to demo because you may need to get to a spot where you can really see some depth. I demo photos and video, but thats because thats what I am doing with 3d. Real images may have more of an instant appeal, but there is nobody that has needed a break in period. They instantly say wow, and start reaching out to the screen, then I have to explain what setup they need to run it because they want it.


[quote name='Likay' post='553704' date='Jun 17 2009, 06:11 AM']When you get used to 3d it's more immersive to increase the effect by time you get used to it. Problem comes when showing 3d-virgins and using your prefered settings. I bet you'll hear one and another "ouch" or some of them just nodding saying it looks great... :rolleyes:
This is why it isn't possible to make a demo with too high separation either. And this is also why the demo might look a lot "watered out" and gentle for those who are used to high settings.

When showcasing 3d: Start with very low settings at first![/quote]
I dont know why people think it takes getting used to. If its set up properly it instantly is recognizable. I think it depends on what you are showing people to get them to really see the depth. Since your brain is doing this all the time, you dont need to break somebody into the concept. It should look correct right from the start. I have shown demoes to many people and they all instantly are impressed.



The old setups where the screen would flicker every couple seconds and only be 85hz really threw people off, but now this system doesnt flicker ever and is at 120hz. I think it may be games that are a little harder to demo because you may need to get to a spot where you can really see some depth. I demo photos and video, but thats because thats what I am doing with 3d. Real images may have more of an instant appeal, but there is nobody that has needed a break in period. They instantly say wow, and start reaching out to the screen, then I have to explain what setup they need to run it because they want it.





[quote name='Likay' post='553704' date='Jun 17 2009, 06:11 AM']When you get used to 3d it's more immersive to increase the effect by time you get used to it. Problem comes when showing 3d-virgins and using your prefered settings. I bet you'll hear one and another "ouch" or some of them just nodding saying it looks great... :rolleyes:

This is why it isn't possible to make a demo with too high separation either. And this is also why the demo might look a lot "watered out" and gentle for those who are used to high settings.



When showcasing 3d: Start with very low settings at first!

#9
Posted 06/17/2009 05:35 PM   
@scstudios
It's my own experience. A proper setup rig will showcase 3d in a very good way. I agree with you that it isn't really the focus of the eyes that needs to get used to stereoscopic 3D-images. But the above mentioned issue remains: If someone wants to look on your 3d-rig, then it's usually most necessary to turn down settings a tad.


[quote name='liquor beard' post='553758' date='Jun 17 2009, 06:58 PM']Wait... what games were showcased on the demo video? That sounds a lot like the badly set up IZ3D demo they had in Fry's recently.[/quote]
The staff at these store's doesn't seem to have been educated at all about how to use the iz3d, neither setting it up. I've heard of two Fry-shops now with that problem. /ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />
Isn't Fry's an electronic store? I mean, cable-tv, cellphones whatever is more complicated than this! o.O
It's really bad for business because i really enjoy my iz3d.
@scstudios

It's my own experience. A proper setup rig will showcase 3d in a very good way. I agree with you that it isn't really the focus of the eyes that needs to get used to stereoscopic 3D-images. But the above mentioned issue remains: If someone wants to look on your 3d-rig, then it's usually most necessary to turn down settings a tad.





[quote name='liquor beard' post='553758' date='Jun 17 2009, 06:58 PM']Wait... what games were showcased on the demo video? That sounds a lot like the badly set up IZ3D demo they had in Fry's recently.

The staff at these store's doesn't seem to have been educated at all about how to use the iz3d, neither setting it up. I've heard of two Fry-shops now with that problem. /ermm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ermm:' />

Isn't Fry's an electronic store? I mean, cable-tv, cellphones whatever is more complicated than this! o.O

It's really bad for business because i really enjoy my iz3d.

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#10
Posted 06/17/2009 07:51 PM   
When I got my 3D setup, the first day, before playing any games, I set the depth to max by default. When I started playing first few games, I never felt the need to train my eyes slowly. Well, max depth looks realistic as in real world, and my eyes were trained for that since birth lol. I started with max depth right away and got used to it the first minute. Since then, even now after such a long time, everytime I start playing, I look at the beautiful 3D effect in wonder...kinda distracts me sometimes from keeping up with action :P. 2D is gone for good. Either 3D or no game.
When I got my 3D setup, the first day, before playing any games, I set the depth to max by default. When I started playing first few games, I never felt the need to train my eyes slowly. Well, max depth looks realistic as in real world, and my eyes were trained for that since birth lol. I started with max depth right away and got used to it the first minute. Since then, even now after such a long time, everytime I start playing, I look at the beautiful 3D effect in wonder...kinda distracts me sometimes from keeping up with action :P. 2D is gone for good. Either 3D or no game.

#11
Posted 06/17/2009 08:38 PM   
[quote name='jeff_cole' post='553839' date='Jun 17 2009, 04:38 PM']When I got my 3D setup, the first day, before playing any games, I set the depth to max by default. When I started playing first few games, I never felt the need to train my eyes slowly. Well, max depth looks realistic as in real world, and my eyes were trained for that since birth lol. I started with max depth right away and got used to it the first minute.[/quote]

Really? I've been using it for about 3 months and I still can't turn it up more than halfway. Any more than that and it gets difficult to focus and messes with my head. Halfway is PLENTY of depth for me, though. I guess people's eyes/brain interpret the effect differently.

No matter what, though, you should see the effect immediately or there's something wrong with the setup. It's unmistakable.
[quote name='jeff_cole' post='553839' date='Jun 17 2009, 04:38 PM']When I got my 3D setup, the first day, before playing any games, I set the depth to max by default. When I started playing first few games, I never felt the need to train my eyes slowly. Well, max depth looks realistic as in real world, and my eyes were trained for that since birth lol. I started with max depth right away and got used to it the first minute.



Really? I've been using it for about 3 months and I still can't turn it up more than halfway. Any more than that and it gets difficult to focus and messes with my head. Halfway is PLENTY of depth for me, though. I guess people's eyes/brain interpret the effect differently.



No matter what, though, you should see the effect immediately or there's something wrong with the setup. It's unmistakable.

Asus RIVBE • i7 4930K @ 4.7ghz • 8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 C8
2xSLI EVGA GTX 770 SC • Creative X-Fi Titanium • 2x 840 SSD + 1TB Seagate Hybrid
EVGA Supernova 1300W• Asus VG278H & nVidia 3d Vision
Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/ custom watercooling:
XSPC Raystorm (cpu & gpu), XSPC Photon 170, Swiftech D5 vario
Alphacool Monsta 360mm +6x NB e-loop, XT45 360mm +6x Corsair SP120

#12
Posted 06/17/2009 09:02 PM   
Ok Went for it...should ship today. Can't wait to see it on my 60" DLP TV.

(I hope u guys are right!!!!)

DoP
Ok Went for it...should ship today. Can't wait to see it on my 60" DLP TV.



(I hope u guys are right!!!!)



DoP

#13
Posted 06/19/2009 12:16 AM   
[quote name='DukeOfPrunes' post='554422' date='Jun 18 2009, 06:16 PM']Ok Went for it...should ship today. Can't wait to see it on my 60" DLP TV.

(I hope u guys are right!!!!)

DoP[/quote]

Be sure to give it a couple of hours for you to learn what you are doing. You only get the gee whiz stuff going after you learn how to properly tweak it. Learn about the convergence and what not.

Also, you might line up some good example 3d games to get ya going, sort of see what everyone thinks are the best looking games in 3d. Incidentally, the new Ghostbusters game looks really great in 3d.
[quote name='DukeOfPrunes' post='554422' date='Jun 18 2009, 06:16 PM']Ok Went for it...should ship today. Can't wait to see it on my 60" DLP TV.



(I hope u guys are right!!!!)



DoP



Be sure to give it a couple of hours for you to learn what you are doing. You only get the gee whiz stuff going after you learn how to properly tweak it. Learn about the convergence and what not.



Also, you might line up some good example 3d games to get ya going, sort of see what everyone thinks are the best looking games in 3d. Incidentally, the new Ghostbusters game looks really great in 3d.

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

--Robert A. Heinlein

#14
Posted 06/19/2009 12:41 AM   
All

Just reading this thread is some good feedback for us.

Our retail demos are done using a video capture system we developed in house to capture real 3D gaming. We capture at a specific depth in the video and as everyone has discussed in this thread, its hard coded and cant be changed like real gaming. We do videos since it easier to demonstrate without the risk of getting the demo system out of whack.

That being said, we are improving our retail pressence in two ways:

1) we will likely capture with more depth
2) we will also add in a way to do real 3D gaming at our kiosks
All



Just reading this thread is some good feedback for us.



Our retail demos are done using a video capture system we developed in house to capture real 3D gaming. We capture at a specific depth in the video and as everyone has discussed in this thread, its hard coded and cant be changed like real gaming. We do videos since it easier to demonstrate without the risk of getting the demo system out of whack.



That being said, we are improving our retail pressence in two ways:



1) we will likely capture with more depth

2) we will also add in a way to do real 3D gaming at our kiosks

#15
Posted 06/19/2009 06:58 PM   
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