The Oculus Rift vs 3D Vision 2
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Well, my main worry isn't resolution. I'm mostly wondering if my eyes can even focus on something that close. Not only have I got glasses, I've got progressive lenses. I have a bad feeling that I'm only really going to be able to focus correctly on the bottom third of the image. With a monitor, I can just nod my head a bit if the distance isn't right (and not even realize I'm doing it). But, if you strap the monitors to my head.... doom. I would need to get a pair of glasses where the entire lense is set for close focus and that fit inside the Rift. Or better yet, lenses I can slide into the Rift so the Rift IS my pair of glasses.
Well, my main worry isn't resolution. I'm mostly wondering if my eyes can even focus on something that close. Not only have I got glasses, I've got progressive lenses. I have a bad feeling that I'm only really going to be able to focus correctly on the bottom third of the image. With a monitor, I can just nod my head a bit if the distance isn't right (and not even realize I'm doing it). But, if you strap the monitors to my head.... doom.

I would need to get a pair of glasses where the entire lense is set for close focus and that fit inside the Rift. Or better yet, lenses I can slide into the Rift so the Rift IS my pair of glasses.

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#16
Posted 12/05/2012 04:54 AM   
The current version *developer* is not ment for glasses. They kind of just say buy and see... which is an odd policy. Which is same thing they say if you have one weaker eye. *Consumer* version will work with glasses but.... I dont think they factored progressive into it at all. Id imagine you'd need near sighted glasses no? Since you cant tilt your head to change what your looking at. Id wait till someone in same situation buys it either way to see what happens imo.
The current version *developer* is not ment for glasses. They kind of just say buy and see... which is an odd policy. Which is same thing they say if you have one weaker eye. *Consumer* version will work with glasses but....

I dont think they factored progressive into it at all. Id imagine you'd need near sighted glasses no? Since you cant tilt your head to change what your looking at. Id wait till someone in same situation buys it either way to see what happens imo.

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#17
Posted 12/05/2012 06:14 AM   
Resolution is my biggest basic problem with it. I hope they made the screens upgradable or offer a range of them. My biggest worry about its success though is that they don't optimize the FIRST release so that there are tons of additional problems on top of the issue of resolution that reviewers will base their opinions on. IE, brightness, contrast, 3D dimensionality, motion, comfort.. As it is, even the best review with still say, "Must have...if you don't mind the resolution." It would be nice if they could say "Must have... and if the resolution bothers you, you can upgrade the screen." BTW, are they attaching the gun to the first person view as an option or is that standard? If its standard i wouldn't use it. @ZlothX, I thought i read that the Rift's lenses focus the screen to infinity, does that help your situation? Also, won't contacts work?
Resolution is my biggest basic problem with it. I hope they made the screens upgradable or offer a range of them. My biggest worry about its success though is that they don't optimize the FIRST release so that there are tons of additional problems on top of the issue of resolution that reviewers will base their opinions on. IE, brightness, contrast, 3D dimensionality, motion, comfort.. As it is, even the best review with still say, "Must have...if you don't mind the resolution." It would be nice if they could say "Must have... and if the resolution bothers you, you can upgrade the screen."

BTW, are they attaching the gun to the first person view as an option or is that standard? If its standard i wouldn't use it.

@ZlothX, I thought i read that the Rift's lenses focus the screen to infinity, does that help your situation? Also, won't contacts work?

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#18
Posted 12/05/2012 08:35 AM   
I agree to the said above. I would have welcomed the delay until March of the dev kits that was caused by a change of the display if they had overcome the no.1 criticism which is the poor resolution - even if that would have meant pushing the release back further to summer. It would have immendiately made the "dev" a "avid adopter" kit and created more units in the hands of users. Now the consumer version is further pushed to 2014 the earliest and until that comes out I don'T see a massive momentum for the industry to support it. Hen/egg situation, if you know what I mean... The easiest way would be a wrapper the creates the warped SBS in the driver - surely something nvidia [i]could[/i] but also probably never [i]will[/i] do.... Oh, and yes, HMDs are generally compensated... even people without impaired eyesight cannot focus for long to 1" without getting it ;) Still, better than leaving space for prescription glasses, I'd rather prefer to see individual compensation adjustment like in binocular microscopes. It would also keep the size more compact.
I agree to the said above. I would have welcomed the delay until March of the dev kits that was caused by a change of the display if they had overcome the no.1 criticism which is the poor resolution - even if that would have meant pushing the release back further to summer. It would have immendiately made the "dev" a "avid adopter" kit and created more units in the hands of users. Now the consumer version is further pushed to 2014 the earliest and until that comes out I don'T see a massive momentum for the industry to support it. Hen/egg situation, if you know what I mean...

The easiest way would be a wrapper the creates the warped SBS in the driver - surely something nvidia could but also probably never will do....

Oh, and yes, HMDs are generally compensated... even people without impaired eyesight cannot focus for long to 1" without getting it ;) Still, better than leaving space for prescription glasses, I'd rather prefer to see individual compensation adjustment like in binocular microscopes. It would also keep the size more compact.

#19
Posted 12/05/2012 12:34 PM   
I may be missing something but I don't see resolution so much of a problem when you can push some heavy AA into the screen. I know is not the same but I can do fine with it, I game with my h5360 projector at 720p and absolutely love it, and I will never change 1080p on 27'' over my 100'' 720p. What I'm completely sure is that it will have no console support. If the device succeeds, it will be like like wii motion controllers made MS create kinect and Sony the Move, so if occulus succeeds they will develop their own VR HMDs, which is perfectly fine, I'm rather platform agnostic, just give me good VR in 3d and I'm set.
I may be missing something but I don't see resolution so much of a problem when you can push some heavy AA into the screen. I know is not the same but I can do fine with it, I game with my h5360 projector at 720p and absolutely love it, and I will never change 1080p on 27'' over my 100'' 720p.

What I'm completely sure is that it will have no console support. If the device succeeds, it will be like like wii motion controllers made MS create kinect and Sony the Move, so if occulus succeeds they will develop their own VR HMDs, which is perfectly fine, I'm rather platform agnostic, just give me good VR in 3d and I'm set.

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#20
Posted 12/05/2012 02:41 PM   
I game at 1280x720 and love it for certain games. Hopefully the consumer version will be much higher than 640x800 per eye. Coincidentally right after i typed out my last post, i read that the lens on the Rift squishes the image, moving more pixels toward the center of the screen. So i guess the resolution isn't as big of a deal as i thought, which is great. I hope that clear to reviewers so they alert readers concerned about the raw figures. IMO, the consumer Rift IS the future and i think we have just been waiting for affordable screens with resolutions that don't feel like your compromising when thinking about using it. *Withholding HDMI rant*
I game at 1280x720 and love it for certain games. Hopefully the consumer version will be much higher than 640x800 per eye. Coincidentally right after i typed out my last post, i read that the lens on the Rift squishes the image, moving more pixels toward the center of the screen. So i guess the resolution isn't as big of a deal as i thought, which is great. I hope that clear to reviewers so they alert readers concerned about the raw figures.

IMO, the consumer Rift IS the future and i think we have just been waiting for affordable screens with resolutions that don't feel like your compromising when thinking about using it.

*Withholding HDMI rant*

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#21
Posted 12/05/2012 02:53 PM   
[quote="Libertine"] i read that the lens on the Rift squishes the image, moving more pixels toward the center of the screen. [/quote] Anyway you'll have a horizontal resolution 640 pixels per eye, it won't get more than that and in regard to the massive VOW (one of the key benefirts of the RIFT) you'll clearly [i]see[/i] dots(owning a 640x320 HMD with a lousy VOW of 45° I can tell this for sure)
Libertine said:
i read that the lens on the Rift squishes the image, moving more pixels toward the center of the screen.


Anyway you'll have a horizontal resolution 640 pixels per eye, it won't get more than that and in regard to the massive VOW (one of the key benefirts of the RIFT) you'll clearly see dots(owning a 640x320 HMD with a lousy VOW of 45° I can tell this for sure)

#22
Posted 12/05/2012 03:36 PM   
Great read Foulplay99, that is exactly the sort of information I was looking to discuss when I started this thread. Having the screen close to your face will make the pixel density much more obvious, so it will be key to have screen/screens with a really high pixel density. Hopefully smart phone technology will help produce screens that will give us the same clarity we have become accustomed to with our current 3D Vision 2 monitors. Eqzitara, if you were around for the start of 3D Vision and 3D Vision Surround, you will remember the bumpy start that these technologies had. I remember sitting around with my Surround setup waiting for the driver that would allow me to turn on my two side monitors. A lot of games worked with Surround right out of the box, but quite a few had issues. Some games didn't support three-screen resolutions, render objects correctly, render shadows correctly, or even support 3D. The Oculus will have the same issues as any other technology that is pushing the envelope. It will take strides and trip a few times. If it is a viable product and has good game/community support, it will do just fine. Of course there is always the chance of getting burned. People got burned with certian 3D Vision Setups, it happens. Hardware can be very finicky.
Great read Foulplay99, that is exactly the sort of information I was looking to discuss when I started this thread. Having the screen close to your face will make the pixel density much more obvious, so it will be key to have screen/screens with a really high pixel density. Hopefully smart phone technology will help produce screens that will give us the same clarity we have become accustomed to with our current 3D Vision 2 monitors.

Eqzitara, if you were around for the start of 3D Vision and 3D Vision Surround, you will remember the bumpy start that these technologies had. I remember sitting around with my Surround setup waiting for the driver that would allow me to turn on my two side monitors. A lot of games worked with Surround right out of the box, but quite a few had issues. Some games didn't support three-screen resolutions, render objects correctly, render shadows correctly, or even support 3D. The Oculus will have the same issues as any other technology that is pushing the envelope. It will take strides and trip a few times. If it is a viable product and has good game/community support, it will do just fine. Of course there is always the chance of getting burned. People got burned with certian 3D Vision Setups, it happens. Hardware can be very finicky.

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#23
Posted 12/05/2012 05:44 PM   
There's an article over at MTBS3d saying the screen is getting increased to 7 inches(up from 5.3) and they are using a different LCD panel with a high pixel fill factor. http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13220:oculus-rift-getting-new-lcd-panels&catid=35&Itemid=73
There's an article over at MTBS3d saying the screen is getting increased to 7 inches(up from 5.3) and they are using a different LCD panel with a high pixel fill factor.


http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13220:oculus-rift-getting-new-lcd-panels&catid=35&Itemid=73

#24
Posted 12/05/2012 06:02 PM   
D-Man11, I read that the panel would be bigger on the new units, but I didn't know about the pixel fill factor! That is great news. Now that people are used to high resolutions and high game settings on the newer 3D Vision monitors, I think it will be key for the Oculus to get the right screen.
D-Man11, I read that the panel would be bigger on the new units, but I didn't know about the pixel fill factor! That is great news. Now that people are used to high resolutions and high game settings on the newer 3D Vision monitors, I think it will be key for the Oculus to get the right screen.

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#25
Posted 12/05/2012 06:15 PM   
Nice read from Foulplay99, The point that Quake at 320x200 is still more than twice pixel density than an improved Rift with 1080p panel would offer could be considered scary. But then we are not comparing apples to apples. The FOV on a monitor is fairly low reaching as high as 50 degrees with widescreen monitors at very short viewing distance. The gameworld can be rendered with a horizontal FOV of 90 in that quake game. The Oculus Rift will remain very low res but the central part for each eye will represent realistic FOV and will thus offer more resolution than if it tried to simulate the monitor experience and leave most of the FOV black and render the game as a floating square as it normally appears when using a monitor.
Nice read from Foulplay99,

The point that Quake at 320x200 is still more than twice pixel density than an improved Rift with 1080p panel would offer could be considered scary.

But then we are not comparing apples to apples. The FOV on a monitor is fairly low reaching as high as 50 degrees with widescreen monitors at very short viewing distance. The gameworld can be rendered with a horizontal FOV of 90 in that quake game. The Oculus Rift will remain very low res but the central part for each eye will represent realistic FOV and will thus offer more resolution than if it tried to simulate the monitor experience and leave most of the FOV black and render the game as a floating square as it normally appears when using a monitor.

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#26
Posted 12/05/2012 06:30 PM   
The Rift success will depend on the masses of the gaming market. Eventual plans for a console release could potentially propel this technology into the new immersion experience for the game industry as a whole. The quality and demand of a game is what drives the hardware sales and therefore the market needs the big publishers and developers to back it. As much as I hate to say this, it's the console market is where the money and business plans are. 3D Vision appears to remain as a niche market only unless Nvidia responds with something similar or better. A couple of issues I have with the Rift are as follows: 1.) No backward game support, 3D Vision wins here and some older games are/have been fixed by the 3D community along with Helix's 3D 2.) Growing pains, 3D Vision is and has gone through this 3.) I can't see it being industry wide supported unless it is successful in the console market, this kind of techology for the PC only attracts a niche market, therefore less developer support The Rift does have a potential to be the ultimate VR experience and it'll be interesting to see where it goes.
The Rift success will depend on the masses of the gaming market. Eventual plans for a console release could potentially propel this technology into the new immersion experience for the game industry as a whole. The quality and demand of a game is what drives the hardware sales and therefore the market needs the big publishers and developers to back it. As much as I hate to say this, it's the console market is where the money and business plans are. 3D Vision appears to remain as a niche market only unless Nvidia responds with something similar or better. A couple of issues I have with the Rift are as follows:

1.) No backward game support, 3D Vision wins here and some older games are/have been fixed by the 3D community along with Helix's 3D
2.) Growing pains, 3D Vision is and has gone through this
3.) I can't see it being industry wide supported unless it is successful in the console market, this kind of techology for the PC only attracts a niche market, therefore less developer support

The Rift does have a potential to be the ultimate VR experience and it'll be interesting to see where it goes.

#27
Posted 12/05/2012 11:20 PM   
Agreed Stryker_66. I am hoping that the market sees the success of the Star Citizen game and we get a new boost in good PC titles. Star Citizen proved to me that there is still a pretty large market of PC gamers that are willing to throw some cash around to get a game they want. I would imagine other game developers have seen how successful the kickstarter has been, it is setting records. The Star Citizen compatibility will be the deciding factor in my purchase of the Rift, which only proves your point about a game demand driving sales.
Agreed Stryker_66. I am hoping that the market sees the success of the Star Citizen game and we get a new boost in good PC titles. Star Citizen proved to me that there is still a pretty large market of PC gamers that are willing to throw some cash around to get a game they want. I would imagine other game developers have seen how successful the kickstarter has been, it is setting records. The Star Citizen compatibility will be the deciding factor in my purchase of the Rift, which only proves your point about a game demand driving sales.

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#28
Posted 12/05/2012 11:57 PM   
[quote="Stryker_66"] 1.) No backward game support, 3D Vision wins here and some older games are/have been fixed by the 3D community along with Helix's 3D[/quote] Not only does it have no backward support for older or existing games, most future PC games are also not supported. According to what we currently know, only a very small number of future PC games will be supported. Why can't the Oculus Rift be like other head mounted displays by simply being a display? They should ask nvidia what needs to be done to make the occulus rift compatible with 3D Vision or 3DTV play.
Stryker_66 said:
1.) No backward game support, 3D Vision wins here and some older games are/have been fixed by the 3D community along with Helix's 3D

Not only does it have no backward support for older or existing games, most future PC games are also not supported. According to what we currently know, only a very small number of future PC games will be supported.

Why can't the Oculus Rift be like other head mounted displays by simply being a display?
They should ask nvidia what needs to be done to make the occulus rift compatible with 3D Vision or 3DTV play.

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#29
Posted 12/06/2012 09:09 AM   
[quote="Partol"][quote="Stryker_66"] 1.)Why can't the Oculus Rift be like other head mounted displays by simply being a display? They should ask nvidia what needs to be done to make the occulus rift compatible with 3D Vision or 3DTV play.[/quote] The additional head tracking in one reason. The fact that they use a special lens which adjusts more pixels to the center so it has increased resolution there is another, because the image must be morphed so it looks right. A least a few people seem to think the basic 3D support, like Nvidia, won't be a problem.
Partol said:
Stryker_66 said:
1.)Why can't the Oculus Rift be like other head mounted displays by simply being a display?
They should ask nvidia what needs to be done to make the occulus rift compatible with 3D Vision or 3DTV play.


The additional head tracking in one reason. The fact that they use a special lens which adjusts more pixels to the center so it has increased resolution there is another, because the image must be morphed so it looks right. A least a few people seem to think the basic 3D support, like Nvidia, won't be a problem.

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#30
Posted 12/06/2012 10:19 AM   
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