anti-ghosting-shader/filter please!
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Hi Scarab,

The second point, I think I didnt explain properly. It ties in with the first point of the scene being too bright.

Taking my first example, scene brightness is 2, spot (ghost) brightness is 20.

Taking the decay to be over 30 frames, the anti ghost mask will put -2 (max) over each frames, so each frame will display a decaying ghost, although it will decay faster (2 units)

ie frame 1: 20 points (scene brightness is 2)
frame 2: 18 (taking max of 2 points away)
frame 3: 16
frame 4: 14
frame 5: 12


If course this does not take into account the rapid decay of the phosphur itself; it only points out that the residual ghost image will stay for a long time and the program will have to keep track of all the brightness values to make sure it subtracts those brightnesses as well as the previous frame.

Maybe a brightness matrix could be used, ie the brightness values would be added together, then the phosphor decay taken into account, then this matrix would be subtracted from the new image. This phosphur decay could then be a variable defined by the user, like using the CTL F5/F6 or CTL F3/F4 buttons.

It could even compensate for red decay more than blue and green (seen on the study).



That link is very interesting. It basically says that in the study, LCD glasses not completely blocking light and phosphur decay contribute to ghosting at about 50% and 50%.

I don't understand this observation, as I have shutter glasses from ELSA (elsa wireless now broken), wired and wireless and ED wired and wireless.

With my DLP projector (shows a whole frame at once, does not scan image, and there is no decay time) there is NO ghosting. I have to close one eye completely and boot up a game like doom and concentrate a bright bit to see the ghosting caused by "leakage" (shutters letting through light). during gameplay, I would not be able to notice it.

Many other people with DLP projectors have commented that they dont get ghosting either. If the study found that 50% of the ghosting was due to leakage then we would all be seeing alot of ghosting.

Very good study otherwise, thanks! /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /hug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hug:' />
Hi Scarab,



The second point, I think I didnt explain properly. It ties in with the first point of the scene being too bright.



Taking my first example, scene brightness is 2, spot (ghost) brightness is 20.



Taking the decay to be over 30 frames, the anti ghost mask will put -2 (max) over each frames, so each frame will display a decaying ghost, although it will decay faster (2 units)



ie frame 1: 20 points (scene brightness is 2)

frame 2: 18 (taking max of 2 points away)

frame 3: 16

frame 4: 14

frame 5: 12





If course this does not take into account the rapid decay of the phosphur itself; it only points out that the residual ghost image will stay for a long time and the program will have to keep track of all the brightness values to make sure it subtracts those brightnesses as well as the previous frame.



Maybe a brightness matrix could be used, ie the brightness values would be added together, then the phosphor decay taken into account, then this matrix would be subtracted from the new image. This phosphur decay could then be a variable defined by the user, like using the CTL F5/F6 or CTL F3/F4 buttons.



It could even compensate for red decay more than blue and green (seen on the study).







That link is very interesting. It basically says that in the study, LCD glasses not completely blocking light and phosphur decay contribute to ghosting at about 50% and 50%.



I don't understand this observation, as I have shutter glasses from ELSA (elsa wireless now broken), wired and wireless and ED wired and wireless.



With my DLP projector (shows a whole frame at once, does not scan image, and there is no decay time) there is NO ghosting. I have to close one eye completely and boot up a game like doom and concentrate a bright bit to see the ghosting caused by "leakage" (shutters letting through light). during gameplay, I would not be able to notice it.



Many other people with DLP projectors have commented that they dont get ghosting either. If the study found that 50% of the ghosting was due to leakage then we would all be seeing alot of ghosting.



Very good study otherwise, thanks! /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> /hug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hug:' />

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#31
Posted 03/19/2007 06:13 PM   
maybe the study is only about CRT Monitors?

we just need to test the shader! but making a video wtich anti-ghost-effect needs a lot of time. to create one second video i will need 1-2 hours (1 sec = 50-100 pictures).
maybe the study is only about CRT Monitors?



we just need to test the shader! but making a video wtich anti-ghost-effect needs a lot of time. to create one second video i will need 1-2 hours (1 sec = 50-100 pictures).

#32
Posted 03/19/2007 07:09 PM   
the study measured leakage from a light sourse. It shouldnt matter if the source was a CRT, a projector, or even a light bulb :huh:

If the study is correct then it would be quite simple to make sutter glasses which would shutter for beginning part of each frame and the end, leaving only the middle part of the frame scan visible to each eye, ie right eye dark, both eyes dark both eyes dark, left eye dark, both eyes dark, both eyes dark, right eye dark... and so on. This in combination with another LCD reversed (both would go dark at the same tme but LC crystals would revolve differently), would in theory cut down 50% of ghosting too.

But you said so yourself, most of the ghosting was gone with your image so even with your CRT, there is little leakage, if any.

Yeah it would take a long time. Maybe someone smart can figure out a way... there are many very smart people in the stereo scene :)
the study measured leakage from a light sourse. It shouldnt matter if the source was a CRT, a projector, or even a light bulb :huh:



If the study is correct then it would be quite simple to make sutter glasses which would shutter for beginning part of each frame and the end, leaving only the middle part of the frame scan visible to each eye, ie right eye dark, both eyes dark both eyes dark, left eye dark, both eyes dark, both eyes dark, right eye dark... and so on. This in combination with another LCD reversed (both would go dark at the same tme but LC crystals would revolve differently), would in theory cut down 50% of ghosting too.



But you said so yourself, most of the ghosting was gone with your image so even with your CRT, there is little leakage, if any.



Yeah it would take a long time. Maybe someone smart can figure out a way... there are many very smart people in the stereo scene :)

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#33
Posted 03/19/2007 08:03 PM   
[quote name='RAGEdemon' date='Mar 18 2007, 11:33 AM']2) The theory assumes that the ghost image only lasts for one frame after it is drawn. In reality, the ghost image remains for a very long time, ie as many as 30 frames or more after it is drawn. You can see this by going to completely black screen and moving your cursor over the screen. Notice how long the cursor trail takes to fade. About 0.5 seconds? At 100Hz = 100 fps, 0.5 seconds is 50 frames- the ghost image will last for 50 frames - this theory will only work for 2 frames.
[/quote]

I think the cursor trail you are seeing is an optical illusion and not phosphor decay. Figure 7 in the paper seems to indicate that that they have fully decayed by the end of the second frame.
[quote name='RAGEdemon' date='Mar 18 2007, 11:33 AM']2) The theory assumes that the ghost image only lasts for one frame after it is drawn. In reality, the ghost image remains for a very long time, ie as many as 30 frames or more after it is drawn. You can see this by going to completely black screen and moving your cursor over the screen. Notice how long the cursor trail takes to fade. About 0.5 seconds? At 100Hz = 100 fps, 0.5 seconds is 50 frames- the ghost image will last for 50 frames - this theory will only work for 2 frames.





I think the cursor trail you are seeing is an optical illusion and not phosphor decay. Figure 7 in the paper seems to indicate that that they have fully decayed by the end of the second frame.

#34
Posted 03/20/2007 12:47 AM   
Hi subwoofa,

It might look so in the diagram mate, but not on my monitor or my brother's monitor.

Try it on a black screen, I can clearly see a cursor trail behind my mouse lasting about .5 seconds.

It does say "exagerated"... maybe it means its not 100% acurate?
Hi subwoofa,



It might look so in the diagram mate, but not on my monitor or my brother's monitor.



Try it on a black screen, I can clearly see a cursor trail behind my mouse lasting about .5 seconds.



It does say "exagerated"... maybe it means its not 100% acurate?

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel 7700K @ 5.1GHz, 16GB 3600MHz CL15 DDR4 RAM, 2x GTX 1080 SLI, Asus Maximus IX Hero, Sound Blaster ZxR, PCIe Quad SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, DLP Link PGD-150 glasses, ViewSonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector @ 1280x800 120Hz native / 2560x1600 120Hz DSR 3D Gaming.

#35
Posted 03/20/2007 01:41 AM   
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