Crosstalk in every game except 3d vision ready ones
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Hi folks! I'm sorry if this topic already exists, I couldn't find anything. My problem is, that I get crosstalk in every game when it is not marked as 3d vision ready. Two examples: Alice Madness returns: Crosstalk in the main menu. Alice' arm and hands are clearly ghosting. Same for every window in the game. Dark Messiah Might and Magic (which is marked as excellent): Crosstalk everywhere. In the main menu even the letters are crosstalking, the guy is clearly ghosting and so are the health and mana icons on the left and right while playing. The only way I found to reduce it, was to adjust the slider for the intensity. I have to take it down to two bars until the ghosting is gone. But with that settings the 3D effect is nearly gone. 3d ready games like Civ 5, Metro 2033, L.A. Noire ... all work excellent. Crysis 2 works great as well. I can't see any crosstalk at all. My monitor is a BenQ XL2420T My rig: I7 3770k GTX Titan 16GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX drivers are up to date I'm new to 3D on the PC so I'm happy with any help I can get because I'm stuck right now.
Hi folks!

I'm sorry if this topic already exists, I couldn't find anything.

My problem is, that I get crosstalk in every game when it is not marked as 3d vision ready.

Two examples:

Alice Madness returns:
Crosstalk in the main menu. Alice' arm and hands are clearly ghosting. Same for every window in the game.

Dark Messiah Might and Magic (which is marked as excellent):
Crosstalk everywhere. In the main menu even the letters are crosstalking, the guy is clearly ghosting and so are the health and mana icons on the left and right while playing.

The only way I found to reduce it, was to adjust the slider for the intensity. I have to take it down to two bars until the ghosting is gone. But with that settings the 3D effect is nearly gone.

3d ready games like Civ 5, Metro 2033, L.A. Noire ... all work excellent. Crysis 2 works great as well. I can't see any crosstalk at all.

My monitor is a BenQ XL2420T
My rig:
I7 3770k
GTX Titan
16GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX
drivers are up to date

I'm new to 3D on the PC so I'm happy with any help I can get because I'm stuck right now.

#1
Posted 04/17/2013 01:53 PM   
Ghosting is normally 100% caused by your display. Turn down your brightness or if that is locked your contrast. If there is an overdrive option, turn it up (or down) to see if that helps. The reason why the other games don't look to bad is that they use tamer colour schemes (e.g. less contrast) When you first notice it, it is a massive distraction. You do learn to not notice it as much when playing though. Another great tip is, let your monitor warm up a good 30 minutes before playing 3D as that really helps with ghosting (cold LCD is much slower to change from black to white). P.S. for example, with my asus278h I have to reduce my contrast to 55 to get the best compromise between image quality and crosstalk.
Ghosting is normally 100% caused by your display. Turn down your brightness or if that is locked your contrast. If there is an overdrive option, turn it up (or down) to see if that helps. The reason why the other games don't look to bad is that they use tamer colour schemes (e.g. less contrast)

When you first notice it, it is a massive distraction. You do learn to not notice it as much when playing though.

Another great tip is, let your monitor warm up a good 30 minutes before playing 3D as that really helps with ghosting (cold LCD is much slower to change from black to white).

P.S. for example, with my asus278h I have to reduce my contrast to 55 to get the best compromise between image quality and crosstalk.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#2
Posted 04/17/2013 02:10 PM   
I took my brightness down to 14. Now my monitor is more comfortable to use (less eye strain), and there's very little ghosting.
I took my brightness down to 14. Now my monitor is more comfortable to use (less eye strain), and there's very little ghosting.

#3
Posted 04/17/2013 03:11 PM   
Thanks for your reply! Unfortunately in 3D mode the only options I have are "Light Boost" and "Contrast". Contrast ist set to 37/100 and LightBoost is up to max. I turned up and down both of the options but nothing happened. :( I have an overscan option in the menus but it's locked (greyed out) in every display mode I can choose from. Weird. But if you say it comes from my display: When I take a screenshot of a scene where I see clearly ghosting and upload it here, can you look at the screenshot and tell if there is ghosting for you as well? Would that work at least so I can make sure it's my display and not my settings? Or am I wrong with my thoughts?
Thanks for your reply!

Unfortunately in 3D mode the only options I have are "Light Boost" and "Contrast". Contrast ist set to 37/100 and LightBoost is up to max. I turned up and down both of the options but nothing happened. :(

I have an overscan option in the menus but it's locked (greyed out) in every display mode I can choose from. Weird.

But if you say it comes from my display:
When I take a screenshot of a scene where I see clearly ghosting and upload it here, can you look at the screenshot and tell if there is ghosting for you as well? Would that work at least so I can make sure it's my display and not my settings? Or am I wrong with my thoughts?

#4
Posted 04/17/2013 03:30 PM   
Disable 3d, adjust brightness, enable 3d. A bunch of settings are locked in 3d mode. Screenshots won't show ghosting - as foreverseeking said, it's 100% display-related.
Disable 3d, adjust brightness, enable 3d. A bunch of settings are locked in 3d mode.

Screenshots won't show ghosting - as foreverseeking said, it's 100% display-related.

#5
Posted 04/17/2013 04:04 PM   
[quo[url][/url][url][/url][url][/url]te="Evil_Dobermann"]Thanks for your reply! Unfortunately in 3D mode the only options I have are "Light Boost" and "Contrast". Contrast ist set to 37/100 and LightBoost is up to max. I turned up and down both of the options but nothing happened. :( I have an overscan option in the menus but it's locked (greyed out) in every display mode I can choose from. Weird. But if you say it comes from my display: When I take a screenshot of a scene where I see clearly ghosting and upload it here, can you look at the screenshot and tell if there is ghosting for you as well? Would that work at least so I can make sure it's my display and not my settings? Or am I wrong with my thoughts?[/quote] Yeah, take a 3D picture via NVidia (f12 I think) and I'll take a look at it. If it's game related, I will see it too on my screen. If its normal screen ghosting the image will appear normal. As for Pirates advice, that may work on some options, but others are set to max when you turn on 3D no matter what you set it in 2D. Your contrast sounds fine, if maybe a little low. Maybe try increasing overscan in 2D as pirate said, start at 100% and see if that changes anything. The benq is apparently known for high cross talk in some cases: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/521134/benq-xl2420t-crosstalk-ghosting/[/url] Maybe some people are much more sensitive too it, or quality control isn't very good on the panel. But other threads show that it is really good: [url]http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1841[/url]
[quo[url][/url][url][/url][url][/url]te="Evil_Dobermann"]Thanks for your reply!

Unfortunately in 3D mode the only options I have are "Light Boost" and "Contrast". Contrast ist set to 37/100 and LightBoost is up to max. I turned up and down both of the options but nothing happened. :(

I have an overscan option in the menus but it's locked (greyed out) in every display mode I can choose from. Weird.

But if you say it comes from my display:
When I take a screenshot of a scene where I see clearly ghosting and upload it here, can you look at the screenshot and tell if there is ghosting for you as well? Would that work at least so I can make sure it's my display and not my settings? Or am I wrong with my thoughts?

Yeah, take a 3D picture via NVidia (f12 I think) and I'll take a look at it. If it's game related, I will see it too on my screen. If its normal screen ghosting the image will appear normal.

As for Pirates advice, that may work on some options, but others are set to max when you turn on 3D no matter what you set it in 2D. Your contrast sounds fine, if maybe a little low. Maybe try increasing overscan in 2D as pirate said, start at 100% and see if that changes anything.

The benq is apparently known for high cross talk in some cases:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/521134/benq-xl2420t-crosstalk-ghosting/

Maybe some people are much more sensitive too it, or quality control isn't very good on the panel.

But other threads show that it is really good:
http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1841

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#6
Posted 04/17/2013 04:40 PM   
Ghosting just happens, the glasses can't ever be in perfect sync with an LCD, and don't fully shutter out, its unavoidable. If its really noticeable you could however have just got a bad set of glasses, if you can, take a picture through the lense of your glasses looking at the screen and upload it here.
Ghosting just happens, the glasses can't ever be in perfect sync with an LCD, and don't fully shutter out, its unavoidable. If its really noticeable you could however have just got a bad set of glasses, if you can, take a picture through the lense of your glasses looking at the screen and upload it here.

#7
Posted 04/17/2013 11:20 PM   
So I tested 3DTV-Play with my Panasonic 3D TV and tested Alice and Dark Messiah. No Crosstalk at all except for the crosshair in Dark Messiah. Amazing quality even though it's just 720p. Then I tested another Benq XL2420T. Crosstalk was even higher compared to the 1st one. Yet, there was a dead pixel. Funny thing: In foreverseeking's second link there is a picture of Alice showing her arms. I get nearly the same amount of crosstalk you can see in that pictures. Outstanding. When I can't get the image quality any better than this I will be very disappointed with 3D Vision. Unfortunately I'm very satisfied with the 2D quality of the BenQ. It's pretty good for a TN-panel and it would be a shame if I can't get 3D working properly. I will order an Asus VG278H now and give that one a try. Thanks for the support guys! PS. Is there any website where I can upload .jps files like .jpgs to share the pics here?
So I tested 3DTV-Play with my Panasonic 3D TV and tested Alice and Dark Messiah. No Crosstalk at all except for the crosshair in Dark Messiah. Amazing quality even though it's just 720p.

Then I tested another Benq XL2420T. Crosstalk was even higher compared to the 1st one. Yet, there was a dead pixel.

Funny thing:
In foreverseeking's second link there is a picture of Alice showing her arms. I get nearly the same amount of crosstalk you can see in that pictures. Outstanding. When I can't get the image quality any better than this I will be very disappointed with 3D Vision.

Unfortunately I'm very satisfied with the 2D quality of the BenQ. It's pretty good for a TN-panel and it would be a shame if I can't get 3D working properly.


I will order an Asus VG278H now and give that one a try.

Thanks for the support guys!

PS.
Is there any website where I can upload .jps files like .jpgs to share the pics here?

#8
Posted 04/18/2013 11:46 AM   
If it works fine on your 3DTV then it is 100% your screen or glasses, so no real need to upload those pictures. I hope the Asus VG278H is a better buy for you. In the few comparisons that I found on the net, the VG278h trumps the benq in every way (less crosstalk, better colours, bigger screen etc). Make sure you apply something around these settings though for optimal performance: Trace Free 80 (other people use slightly less, maybe screen dependent Contrast 55 (This seems to be tried and tested. My own tests have shown this to be perfect). [quote="Evil_Dobermann"] In foreverseeking's second link there is a picture of Alice showing her arms. I get nearly the same amount of crosstalk you can see in that pictures. Outstanding. When I can't get the image quality any better than this I will be very disappointed with 3D Vision. [/quote] This is not a problem with Nvidia 3D, it is a problem with TN panels and the tech altogether. Maybe your TV is much better in 3D, but more likely you are either playing it on TV with less depth and so not noticing it so much, or your TV has less contrast or brightness then your monitor. Every TV I have ever seen, especially passive, has worse ghosting then my monitor at the same depth. When I watch 3D cinema, I always notice crosstalk even at the incredibly low depths that Hollywood uses. If your ghosting is similar to that picture on the website, I think your expectations might be slightly too high, as those images are relatively good. It looks like there is some overburn (to aggressive on the colour change) but it's not too profound for such a white arm on dark back ground. When you get your Asus, my advise it don't look for the ghosting. Obviously, firstly make sure the Asus is better then your BENQ, but then just play a game as normal in 3D at your preferred depth and convergence. Your eyes will eventually filter out most of the mild ghosting you get.
If it works fine on your 3DTV then it is 100% your screen or glasses, so no real need to upload those pictures. I hope the Asus VG278H is a better buy for you. In the few comparisons that I found on the net, the VG278h trumps the benq in every way (less crosstalk, better colours, bigger screen etc). Make sure you apply something around these settings though for optimal performance:

Trace Free 80 (other people use slightly less, maybe screen dependent
Contrast 55 (This seems to be tried and tested. My own tests have shown this to be perfect).

Evil_Dobermann said:
In foreverseeking's second link there is a picture of Alice showing her arms. I get nearly the same amount of crosstalk you can see in that pictures. Outstanding. When I can't get the image quality any better than this I will be very disappointed with 3D Vision.

This is not a problem with Nvidia 3D, it is a problem with TN panels and the tech altogether. Maybe your TV is much better in 3D, but more likely you are either playing it on TV with less depth and so not noticing it so much, or your TV has less contrast or brightness then your monitor. Every TV I have ever seen, especially passive, has worse ghosting then my monitor at the same depth. When I watch 3D cinema, I always notice crosstalk even at the incredibly low depths that Hollywood uses. If your ghosting is similar to that picture on the website, I think your expectations might be slightly too high, as those images are relatively good. It looks like there is some overburn (to aggressive on the colour change) but it's not too profound for such a white arm on dark back ground.

When you get your Asus, my advise it don't look for the ghosting. Obviously, firstly make sure the Asus is better then your BENQ, but then just play a game as normal in 3D at your preferred depth and convergence. Your eyes will eventually filter out most of the mild ghosting you get.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#9
Posted 04/18/2013 12:53 PM   
[quote="Evil_Dobermann"]PS. Is there any website where I can upload .jps files like .jpgs to share the pics here?[/quote] You can add them to a post after it's posted, there's an attach button [img]https://forums.geforce.com/templates/default/images/forums/icon-paperclip.png[/img]on the upper right of your posts. They won't have thumbnails but they will be downloadable.
Evil_Dobermann said:PS.
Is there any website where I can upload .jps files like .jpgs to share the pics here?

You can add them to a post after it's posted, there's an attach button Imageon the upper right of your posts. They won't have thumbnails but they will be downloadable.
#10
Posted 04/18/2013 01:11 PM   
I have the VG278H, and ghosting is minimal. I use low brightness (around 15), a contrast of 65, and set the colour temperatures manually to 100 red, 90 green, 85 blue. My unit was too blue for my liking at default settings.
I have the VG278H, and ghosting is minimal. I use low brightness (around 15), a contrast of 65, and set the colour temperatures manually to 100 red, 90 green, 85 blue. My unit was too blue for my liking at default settings.

#11
Posted 04/18/2013 01:41 PM   
[quote="foreverseeking"]This is not a problem with Nvidia 3D, it is a problem with TN panels and the tech altogether. Maybe your TV is much better in 3D, but more likely you are either playing it on TV with less depth and so not noticing it so much, or your TV has less contrast or brightness then your monitor. Every TV I have ever seen, especially passive, has worse ghosting then my monitor at the same depth. When I watch 3D cinema, I always notice crosstalk even at the incredibly low depths that Hollywood uses. [/quote]I think it is my TV. It's a Plasma with active Shutter technology (Panasonic VT50 Series). To be fair, it has very good picture quality and beats 3D I experienced f.e. in theatres any day. I was very positively surprised when I received the TV. Even 3D games on consoles look as good as they can get if you ask me. I didn't experience any crosstalk on the TV whatsover. *offtopic* [quote="foreverseeking"] If your ghosting is similar to that picture on the website, I think your expectations might be slightly too high, as those images are relatively good. It looks like there is some overburn (to aggressive on the colour change) but it's not too profound for such a white arm on dark back ground. [/quote] You might be right. I thought about that as well when I read the comments about the pictures afterwards. Let's hope for the best. [quote="foreverseeking"] When you get your Asus, my advise it don't look for the ghosting. Obviously, firstly make sure the Asus is better then your BENQ, but then just play a game as normal in 3D at your preferred depth and convergence. Your eyes will eventually filter out most of the mild ghosting you get. [/quote]I will definetly need to check Alice and Dark Messiah for the quality because I experienced that games as "worst case". For my terms, Dark Messiah is not playable in that quality I experience on the BenQ. I feel dizzy after minutes. When the Asus arrives, I will compare both and let you guys know which one wins for me. [quote="TsaebehT"] You can add them to a post after it's posted, there's an attach button [img]https://forums.geforce.com/templates/default/images/forums/icon-paperclip.png[/img]on the upper right of your posts. They won't have thumbnails but they will be downloadable.[/quote] Thank you!
foreverseeking said:This is not a problem with Nvidia 3D, it is a problem with TN panels and the tech altogether. Maybe your TV is much better in 3D, but more likely you are either playing it on TV with less depth and so not noticing it so much, or your TV has less contrast or brightness then your monitor. Every TV I have ever seen, especially passive, has worse ghosting then my monitor at the same depth. When I watch 3D cinema, I always notice crosstalk even at the incredibly low depths that Hollywood uses.
I think it is my TV. It's a Plasma with active Shutter technology (Panasonic VT50 Series). To be fair, it has very good picture quality and beats 3D I experienced f.e. in theatres any day. I was very positively surprised when I received the TV. Even 3D games on consoles look as good as they can get if you ask me. I didn't experience any crosstalk on the TV whatsover. *offtopic*


foreverseeking said:
If your ghosting is similar to that picture on the website, I think your expectations might be slightly too high, as those images are relatively good. It looks like there is some overburn (to aggressive on the colour change) but it's not too profound for such a white arm on dark back ground.

You might be right. I thought about that as well when I read the comments about the pictures afterwards. Let's hope for the best.

foreverseeking said:
When you get your Asus, my advise it don't look for the ghosting. Obviously, firstly make sure the Asus is better then your BENQ, but then just play a game as normal in 3D at your preferred depth and convergence. Your eyes will eventually filter out most of the mild ghosting you get.
I will definetly need to check Alice and Dark Messiah for the quality because I experienced that games as "worst case". For my terms, Dark Messiah is not playable in that quality I experience on the BenQ. I feel dizzy after minutes.

When the Asus arrives, I will compare both and let you guys know which one wins for me.

TsaebehT said:
You can add them to a post after it's posted, there's an attach button Imageon the upper right of your posts. They won't have thumbnails but they will be downloadable.
Thank you!

#12
Posted 04/18/2013 03:15 PM   
[quote="Pirateguybrush"]I have the VG278H, and ghosting is minimal. I use low brightness (around 15), a contrast of 65, and set the colour temperatures manually to 100 red, 90 green, 85 blue. My unit was too blue for my liking at default settings.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that the brightness is always set at the exact same level with the vg278h in 3D, no matter what it is set on prior to 3D. When my screen brightness is set to 100% (only for testing) it decreases brightness substationally in 3D mode. Also If you prefer your contrast at 65, fair enough, but anything above 55 for me and mmany others on the net increased crosstalk on test images, where as anything below 55 only made the screen darker but did not decrease crosstalk. Of course what is better(higher crosstalk vs higher contrast) is always subjective. [quote="Evil_Dobermann"] I think it is my TV. It's a Plasma... [/quote] Active shutter plasma? Ok, well yeah that will destroy lcd at 3D. A top Panasonic is already a great TV, but plasma is the best for 3DTV as the pixel response time is multiples faster then lcd and doesn't need to warm up first. I really hope the vg278H is better for you, it is certainly a lot larger than 24' (it really notices) and that helps with a good 3D effect. Let us know when it arrives how it goes.
Pirateguybrush said:I have the VG278H, and ghosting is minimal. I use low brightness (around 15), a contrast of 65, and set the colour temperatures manually to 100 red, 90 green, 85 blue. My unit was too blue for my liking at default settings.

I'm pretty sure that the brightness is always set at the exact same level with the vg278h in 3D, no matter what it is set on prior to 3D. When my screen brightness is set to 100% (only for testing) it decreases brightness substationally in 3D mode. Also If you prefer your contrast at 65, fair enough, but anything above 55 for me and mmany others on the net increased crosstalk on test images, where as anything below 55 only made the screen darker but did not decrease crosstalk. Of course what is better(higher crosstalk vs higher contrast) is always subjective.

Evil_Dobermann said:
I think it is my TV. It's a Plasma...

Active shutter plasma? Ok, well yeah that will destroy lcd at 3D. A top Panasonic is already a great TV, but plasma is the best for 3DTV as the pixel response time is multiples faster then lcd and doesn't need to warm up first. I really hope the vg278H is better for you, it is certainly a lot larger than 24' (it really notices) and that helps with a good 3D effect. Let us know when it arrives how it goes.

OS: Win 8 CPU: I7 4770k 3.5GZ GPU: GTX 780ti

#13
Posted 04/18/2013 04:21 PM   
foreverseeking - so it is. I just ran some tests. That said, 100% brightness in 2d is far brighter than the brightest (lightboost) 3d settings.
foreverseeking - so it is. I just ran some tests. That said, 100% brightness in 2d is far brighter than the brightest (lightboost) 3d settings.

#14
Posted 04/18/2013 06:02 PM   
Lightboost is in theory just as bright as in 2D mode. Its not just making the screen brighter, its strobed in time with the glasses, so more of it is usable.
Lightboost is in theory just as bright as in 2D mode. Its not just making the screen brighter, its strobed in time with the glasses, so more of it is usable.

#15
Posted 04/18/2013 09:15 PM   
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