[quote="Cookybiscuit"]If you buy an Nvidia monitor and glasses, Nvidia is getting money towards their software costs.
If you buy a Samsung TV and glasses, they don't.
Is that so hard to understand or should I simplify it further?[/quote]
Nope. You've got it quite simple enough thank you.
Nvidia got 500 bucks (or whatever the retailer gives them) for the hardware I bought. If you think it's acceptable that a switch in the drivers is flipped for free because someone bought an Nvidia display and everyone else with other 3d displays can pay more or go to hell, then you're a part of the problem. It's not enough that someone buys their expensive video cards.
It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke!
Cookybiscuit said:If you buy an Nvidia monitor and glasses, Nvidia is getting money towards their software costs.
If you buy a Samsung TV and glasses, they don't.
Is that so hard to understand or should I simplify it further?
Nope. You've got it quite simple enough thank you.
Nvidia got 500 bucks (or whatever the retailer gives them) for the hardware I bought. If you think it's acceptable that a switch in the drivers is flipped for free because someone bought an Nvidia display and everyone else with other 3d displays can pay more or go to hell, then you're a part of the problem. It's not enough that someone buys their expensive video cards.
It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke!
[quote="Likay"]Is THAT so hard to understand?[/quote]
Its not but you are confusing your agenda with someone else's. Then getting mad when we don't agree about something unrelated. No one is arguing what happened to you doesn't suck. We are talking about charging for software after buying hardware [Which you havent done in quite some time]
If you really want to get on the subject of yours however.
In your day nvidia stereo 3d literally did everything itself[Practically, still had compatibility flags], no need for developers, no need for support, no anything. Times change so of course they switched how they do things.
It sucks that they screwed over when they made the switch. People with setup's that were only compatibile with old 3D are not compatible. People with Dual Passive projector setups are literally left in the dark. Yes, it was a dick move and I'd be pissed if I was in your boat but there are really not many of you. Tbh the only people I know of who still have these setups are you and blacksharkfr. It was a bad moral choice but that's all.
Its not but you are confusing your agenda with someone else's. Then getting mad when we don't agree about something unrelated. No one is arguing what happened to you doesn't suck. We are talking about charging for software after buying hardware [Which you havent done in quite some time]
If you really want to get on the subject of yours however.
In your day nvidia stereo 3d literally did everything itself[Practically, still had compatibility flags], no need for developers, no need for support, no anything. Times change so of course they switched how they do things.
It sucks that they screwed over when they made the switch. People with setup's that were only compatibile with old 3D are not compatible. People with Dual Passive projector setups are literally left in the dark. Yes, it was a dick move and I'd be pissed if I was in your boat but there are really not many of you. Tbh the only people I know of who still have these setups are you and blacksharkfr. It was a bad moral choice but that's all.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
If you don't like it then sell your gear and buy an AMD setup, enjoy the 2 or 3 games it supports. I'm not saying Nvidia is the greatest company ever, I personally think AMD cards shit on Nvidia. But you seriously cant see why they charge for the software? I mean, really?
Why don't they just start giving away graphics cards while they are at it, and I doubt your whining is going to change anything.
If you don't like it then sell your gear and buy an AMD setup, enjoy the 2 or 3 games it supports. I'm not saying Nvidia is the greatest company ever, I personally think AMD cards shit on Nvidia. But you seriously cant see why they charge for the software? I mean, really?
Why don't they just start giving away graphics cards while they are at it, and I doubt your whining is going to change anything.
Geezertron, I think the part that you are missing is that Stereoscopic 3D is in fact an add-on to their video cards. When they sell you a video card, it's only really directed toward 2D gaming.
As you know, making things work in 3D is not as easy as 2D at this point. It's not like they get S3D for free out of the drivers. There is a lot of effort that goes into the system to enable stereoscopic. You say it's a simple bit to flip it on. You could not be more wrong.
That engineering effort has to be paid for somehow. NVidia chose to make the S3D enthusiasts pay, not the majority of people who never run S3D and could give a damn.
Personally, I find the NVidia angst interesting and mildly amusing. No offense to anyone.
Right now, for me, S3D is easily the best I've ever seen it. Due in no small part to Helix and team eqzitara. But, NVidia made this modding possible, and has turned a blind eye toward our efforts- including not trying to muscle in and grab some more bucks.
I like S3D a lot, and I'm willing to pay a premium for it, if it's done well.
Lastly, we need to remember that NVidia is no longer a video card company. Just like everyone else, they are now a [i]mobile [/i]company. Mobile is where the money is, NVidia is moving there. The whole world has apparently decided that 5" screens and limited battery life is the best possible gaming experience. Yeah, I'm not happy about dumbing it down for mobile.
If you want to fear for the future of 3D, that will be where the problems stem from.
Geezertron, I think the part that you are missing is that Stereoscopic 3D is in fact an add-on to their video cards. When they sell you a video card, it's only really directed toward 2D gaming.
As you know, making things work in 3D is not as easy as 2D at this point. It's not like they get S3D for free out of the drivers. There is a lot of effort that goes into the system to enable stereoscopic. You say it's a simple bit to flip it on. You could not be more wrong.
That engineering effort has to be paid for somehow. NVidia chose to make the S3D enthusiasts pay, not the majority of people who never run S3D and could give a damn.
Personally, I find the NVidia angst interesting and mildly amusing. No offense to anyone.
Right now, for me, S3D is easily the best I've ever seen it. Due in no small part to Helix and team eqzitara. But, NVidia made this modding possible, and has turned a blind eye toward our efforts- including not trying to muscle in and grab some more bucks.
I like S3D a lot, and I'm willing to pay a premium for it, if it's done well.
Lastly, we need to remember that NVidia is no longer a video card company. Just like everyone else, they are now a mobile company. Mobile is where the money is, NVidia is moving there. The whole world has apparently decided that 5" screens and limited battery life is the best possible gaming experience. Yeah, I'm not happy about dumbing it down for mobile.
If you want to fear for the future of 3D, that will be where the problems stem from.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607 Latest 3Dmigoto Release Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
[quote="Geezertron"]It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke![/quote]
I bet when you bought that car and saw that it had On Star and a SiriusXM radio you were really pissed finding out they required monthly subscriptions.
Geezertron said:It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke!
I bet when you bought that car and saw that it had On Star and a SiriusXM radio you were really pissed finding out they required monthly subscriptions.
Borderlands 2 and all its dlc
Even I had to pay for it.... and I "fixed" gearbox/nvidia's false advertisement[Seriously, its still up]. Wheres my bone?
[Not saying you shouldn't pay for dlc. Should always have to. I'm just bitching.... Such mixed feelings since I really like the game... hate the company..sigh]
Even I had to pay for it.... and I "fixed" gearbox/nvidia's false advertisement[Seriously, its still up]. Wheres my bone?
[Not saying you shouldn't pay for dlc. Should always have to. I'm just bitching.... Such mixed feelings since I really like the game... hate the company..sigh]
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
[quote="D-Man11"][quote="Geezertron"]It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke![/quote]
I bet when you bought that car and saw that it had On Star and a SiriusXM radio you were really pissed finding out they required monthly subscriptions. [/quote]
Erm...your analogy makes zero sense. The "3DTV Play" feature is built into the drivers. It's already there. If flipping the switch that is already built into the drivers involved somebody doing something for me in realtime, like it is with On Star, then yeah, I'd expect to pay. Comparing On Star to a driver feature is inane.
@bo3b, thanks for the intelligent counterpoints. I respectfully disagree though...they make everyone pay. When they write the drivers and include the 3D components, I have no doubt that the cost of that is reflected in all of the card-sales. The fact that only those with Nvidia displays can use all the driver features for free is probably the biggest 3D-gaming killer. There are a lot of 3D HDTVs out there now...it's becoming almost common for newer TVs to be 3D enabled. Most people who hook their computers up to their TVs and find out that their Nvidia card won't play games in 3D unless they pull out their credit card out and pay for a driver feature are going to say "screw that!" Just like I am.
Too bad...it might have been fun. The 3D bluray movies I've got look mind-blowingly good on my Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector on a 106 inch screen with a Toshiba Bluray player...And I don't have to pay Toshiba any extra money to watch 3D because I'm not using a Toshiba display.
Geezertron said:It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke!
I bet when you bought that car and saw that it had On Star and a SiriusXM radio you were really pissed finding out they required monthly subscriptions.
Erm...your analogy makes zero sense. The "3DTV Play" feature is built into the drivers. It's already there. If flipping the switch that is already built into the drivers involved somebody doing something for me in realtime, like it is with On Star, then yeah, I'd expect to pay. Comparing On Star to a driver feature is inane.
@bo3b, thanks for the intelligent counterpoints. I respectfully disagree though...they make everyone pay. When they write the drivers and include the 3D components, I have no doubt that the cost of that is reflected in all of the card-sales. The fact that only those with Nvidia displays can use all the driver features for free is probably the biggest 3D-gaming killer. There are a lot of 3D HDTVs out there now...it's becoming almost common for newer TVs to be 3D enabled. Most people who hook their computers up to their TVs and find out that their Nvidia card won't play games in 3D unless they pull out their credit card out and pay for a driver feature are going to say "screw that!" Just like I am.
Too bad...it might have been fun. The 3D bluray movies I've got look mind-blowingly good on my Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector on a 106 inch screen with a Toshiba Bluray player...And I don't have to pay Toshiba any extra money to watch 3D because I'm not using a Toshiba display.
Can play games without 3d vision still Trine 1/2 I dont remember any others off the top of my head. I "think" dungeon siege 3/doom 3 bfg/crysis 2/3. Demo on steam for most of them. Dont buy anything based on my saying, Im not positive. If you create a new thread you can ask and maybe others will remember. I might remember more by time you post.
Can play games without 3d vision still Trine 1/2 I dont remember any others off the top of my head. I "think" dungeon siege 3/doom 3 bfg/crysis 2/3. Demo on steam for most of them. Dont buy anything based on my saying, Im not positive. If you create a new thread you can ask and maybe others will remember. I might remember more by time you post.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
yah, it's funny how 2D Blu-ray players are more expensive than 3D capable ones.
And of course the 3D Blu-rays are cheaper than their 2D versions.
So, I understand your argument completely, everything that is 3D related "should be cheaper" or all inclusive.
[quote="eqzitara"]
Im not defending nvidia. Nor they dont exploit helix/I/others. Nor am I saying they are doing enough. Im just defending the need to charge. Seriously, I dont make a dime[Spend a bit on hosting] and even I defend charging.
[/quote]
I totally got what you're saying. I've never had problem with Nvidia charging for their teach, hard or soft. in fact, in the past I'd hope Nvidia block/counter/sanction any sort of hardware hacking/edid overwriting workarounds...but not anymore.
Im not defending nvidia. Nor they dont exploit helix/I/others. Nor am I saying they are doing enough. Im just defending the need to charge. Seriously, I dont make a dime[Spend a bit on hosting] and even I defend charging.
I totally got what you're saying. I've never had problem with Nvidia charging for their teach, hard or soft. in fact, in the past I'd hope Nvidia block/counter/sanction any sort of hardware hacking/edid overwriting workarounds...but not anymore.
I learned the hard way about 3DTV Play. I now understand the term "3D Ready". The only argument I see in the OP's perspective is that it isn't obvious or clear about the extra cost associated with 3DTV Play. The advertising on GPU boxes or sell sheets should be more clear about the extra cost for 3DTV Play with various hardware set ups. There is nothing worse than "assuming" something is included and you find out it isn't there. In the case of 3D Vision "assuming the additional software is included" is reasonable to me. If I knew the extra cost upfront, I would of probably been ok with it. At least then I would of known my costs up front and made an informed choice. I was also pissed at the time due to finding out about 3DTV Play after the fact. In spite of that experience, I have enjoyed my 3D setup for awhile now and has been worth it. I've learned to research more in depth now with any computer hardware purchases.
I learned the hard way about 3DTV Play. I now understand the term "3D Ready". The only argument I see in the OP's perspective is that it isn't obvious or clear about the extra cost associated with 3DTV Play. The advertising on GPU boxes or sell sheets should be more clear about the extra cost for 3DTV Play with various hardware set ups. There is nothing worse than "assuming" something is included and you find out it isn't there. In the case of 3D Vision "assuming the additional software is included" is reasonable to me. If I knew the extra cost upfront, I would of probably been ok with it. At least then I would of known my costs up front and made an informed choice. I was also pissed at the time due to finding out about 3DTV Play after the fact. In spite of that experience, I have enjoyed my 3D setup for awhile now and has been worth it. I've learned to research more in depth now with any computer hardware purchases.
The only people that legitimately have the right to complain about having to 'pay' for Stereoscopic 3D drivers are the ones that were getting them free all along back on Windows XP with the original shutter glasses, before 3D Vision. Since then it's been [i]either[/i] buy an ATI/AMD GPU [u]and[/u] buy drivers [i]or[/i] buy an NVIDIA GPU [u]and[/u] buy drivers/hardware. You can't really blame NVIDIA for your assumptions and because you didn't do your homework before purchasing things. Either way you slice it you have to pay extra for it, be it AMD or NVIDIA, so you have to pay $40, it's still better than having to buy the 3D Vision Kit and/or a 3D Vision monitor.
The only people that legitimately have the right to complain about having to 'pay' for Stereoscopic 3D drivers are the ones that were getting them free all along back on Windows XP with the original shutter glasses, before 3D Vision. Since then it's been either buy an ATI/AMD GPU and buy drivers or buy an NVIDIA GPU and buy drivers/hardware. You can't really blame NVIDIA for your assumptions and because you didn't do your homework before purchasing things. Either way you slice it you have to pay extra for it, be it AMD or NVIDIA, so you have to pay $40, it's still better than having to buy the 3D Vision Kit and/or a 3D Vision monitor.
[quote="TsaebehT"] Either way you slice it you have to pay extra for it, be it AMD or NVIDIA, so you have to pay $40, it's still better than having to buy the 3D Vision Kit and/or a 3D Vision monitor.[/quote]
I don't really have to pay anything. I'm not so desperate to play my games in 3D that I'm willing to pay extra to unlock a feature built into my video card drivers that some people get for free. It just means one less 3D gamer out there (actually, it probably means many, many less 3D gamers out there as I'm definitely not the only one who's not going to bother with it). It also means one less PC gamer buying Nvidia cards in the future. And with the way Nvidia's policy with regards to its drivers likely kills interest in 3D gaming among 3DTV owners, game developers will likely not continue giving a rat's arse about programming with 3D in mind as buyers of "3D Vision 2" monitors and kits are likely a puny minority vs buyers of 3D TVs and projectors. That's some real far-sightedness and sound business savvy.
And if Nvidia reads these forums (I doubt it), the vast majority of people who think this policy is stupid aren't hanging out in these forums and posting their opinions. It's only natural that a handful of people who either bought 3d Vision sytems or actually paid to unlock their drivers and who post in these forums are going to side with Nvidia. They don't represent the average 3DTV owner who couldn't be bothered to voice their opinions about something they'll never pay for.
TsaebehT said: Either way you slice it you have to pay extra for it, be it AMD or NVIDIA, so you have to pay $40, it's still better than having to buy the 3D Vision Kit and/or a 3D Vision monitor.
I don't really have to pay anything. I'm not so desperate to play my games in 3D that I'm willing to pay extra to unlock a feature built into my video card drivers that some people get for free. It just means one less 3D gamer out there (actually, it probably means many, many less 3D gamers out there as I'm definitely not the only one who's not going to bother with it). It also means one less PC gamer buying Nvidia cards in the future. And with the way Nvidia's policy with regards to its drivers likely kills interest in 3D gaming among 3DTV owners, game developers will likely not continue giving a rat's arse about programming with 3D in mind as buyers of "3D Vision 2" monitors and kits are likely a puny minority vs buyers of 3D TVs and projectors. That's some real far-sightedness and sound business savvy.
And if Nvidia reads these forums (I doubt it), the vast majority of people who think this policy is stupid aren't hanging out in these forums and posting their opinions. It's only natural that a handful of people who either bought 3d Vision sytems or actually paid to unlock their drivers and who post in these forums are going to side with Nvidia. They don't represent the average 3DTV owner who couldn't be bothered to voice their opinions about something they'll never pay for.
Nope. You've got it quite simple enough thank you.
Nvidia got 500 bucks (or whatever the retailer gives them) for the hardware I bought. If you think it's acceptable that a switch in the drivers is flipped for free because someone bought an Nvidia display and everyone else with other 3d displays can pay more or go to hell, then you're a part of the problem. It's not enough that someone buys their expensive video cards.
It's like buying a car and being told if you don't want to buy engine parts from the car dealer, then you can pay extra for a key to open the hood elsewhere. It's a sick joke!
Its not but you are confusing your agenda with someone else's. Then getting mad when we don't agree about something unrelated. No one is arguing what happened to you doesn't suck. We are talking about charging for software after buying hardware [Which you havent done in quite some time]
If you really want to get on the subject of yours however.
In your day nvidia stereo 3d literally did everything itself[Practically, still had compatibility flags], no need for developers, no need for support, no anything. Times change so of course they switched how they do things.
It sucks that they screwed over when they made the switch. People with setup's that were only compatibile with old 3D are not compatible. People with Dual Passive projector setups are literally left in the dark. Yes, it was a dick move and I'd be pissed if I was in your boat but there are really not many of you. Tbh the only people I know of who still have these setups are you and blacksharkfr. It was a bad moral choice but that's all.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Why don't they just start giving away graphics cards while they are at it, and I doubt your whining is going to change anything.
As you know, making things work in 3D is not as easy as 2D at this point. It's not like they get S3D for free out of the drivers. There is a lot of effort that goes into the system to enable stereoscopic. You say it's a simple bit to flip it on. You could not be more wrong.
That engineering effort has to be paid for somehow. NVidia chose to make the S3D enthusiasts pay, not the majority of people who never run S3D and could give a damn.
Personally, I find the NVidia angst interesting and mildly amusing. No offense to anyone.
Right now, for me, S3D is easily the best I've ever seen it. Due in no small part to Helix and team eqzitara. But, NVidia made this modding possible, and has turned a blind eye toward our efforts- including not trying to muscle in and grab some more bucks.
I like S3D a lot, and I'm willing to pay a premium for it, if it's done well.
Lastly, we need to remember that NVidia is no longer a video card company. Just like everyone else, they are now a mobile company. Mobile is where the money is, NVidia is moving there. The whole world has apparently decided that 5" screens and limited battery life is the best possible gaming experience. Yeah, I'm not happy about dumbing it down for mobile.
If you want to fear for the future of 3D, that will be where the problems stem from.
Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers
I bet when you bought that car and saw that it had On Star and a SiriusXM radio you were really pissed finding out they required monthly subscriptions.
Even I had to pay for it.... and I "fixed" gearbox/nvidia's false advertisement[Seriously, its still up]. Wheres my bone?
[Not saying you shouldn't pay for dlc. Should always have to. I'm just bitching.... Such mixed feelings since I really like the game... hate the company..sigh]
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
Erm...your analogy makes zero sense. The "3DTV Play" feature is built into the drivers. It's already there. If flipping the switch that is already built into the drivers involved somebody doing something for me in realtime, like it is with On Star, then yeah, I'd expect to pay. Comparing On Star to a driver feature is inane.
@bo3b, thanks for the intelligent counterpoints. I respectfully disagree though...they make everyone pay. When they write the drivers and include the 3D components, I have no doubt that the cost of that is reflected in all of the card-sales. The fact that only those with Nvidia displays can use all the driver features for free is probably the biggest 3D-gaming killer. There are a lot of 3D HDTVs out there now...it's becoming almost common for newer TVs to be 3D enabled. Most people who hook their computers up to their TVs and find out that their Nvidia card won't play games in 3D unless they pull out their credit card out and pay for a driver feature are going to say "screw that!" Just like I am.
Too bad...it might have been fun. The 3D bluray movies I've got look mind-blowingly good on my Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector on a 106 inch screen with a Toshiba Bluray player...And I don't have to pay Toshiba any extra money to watch 3D because I'm not using a Toshiba display.
Co-founder of helixmod.blog.com
If you like one of my helixmod patches and want to donate. Can send to me through paypal - eqzitara@yahoo.com
And of course the 3D Blu-rays are cheaper than their 2D versions.
So, I understand your argument completely, everything that is 3D related "should be cheaper" or all inclusive.
I totally got what you're saying. I've never had problem with Nvidia charging for their teach, hard or soft. in fact, in the past I'd hope Nvidia block/counter/sanction any sort of hardware hacking/edid overwriting workarounds...but not anymore.
epenny size =/= nerdiness
[MonitorSizeOverride][Global/Base Profile Tweaks][Depth=IPD]
I don't really have to pay anything. I'm not so desperate to play my games in 3D that I'm willing to pay extra to unlock a feature built into my video card drivers that some people get for free. It just means one less 3D gamer out there (actually, it probably means many, many less 3D gamers out there as I'm definitely not the only one who's not going to bother with it). It also means one less PC gamer buying Nvidia cards in the future. And with the way Nvidia's policy with regards to its drivers likely kills interest in 3D gaming among 3DTV owners, game developers will likely not continue giving a rat's arse about programming with 3D in mind as buyers of "3D Vision 2" monitors and kits are likely a puny minority vs buyers of 3D TVs and projectors. That's some real far-sightedness and sound business savvy.
And if Nvidia reads these forums (I doubt it), the vast majority of people who think this policy is stupid aren't hanging out in these forums and posting their opinions. It's only natural that a handful of people who either bought 3d Vision sytems or actually paid to unlock their drivers and who post in these forums are going to side with Nvidia. They don't represent the average 3DTV owner who couldn't be bothered to voice their opinions about something they'll never pay for.